UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => The removal of blonde blue-eyed children from Roma camps. => Topic started by: Opposing Pat on October 22, 2013, 01:30:15 PM

Title: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Opposing Pat on October 22, 2013, 01:30:15 PM
Blonde girl, 7, removed from Dublin Roma family.

Police in the Republic of Ireland have removed a seven-year-old blonde girl from a Roma family in Dublin.

The girl was taken into care after officers called to a house in Tallaght on Monday afternoon.

They saw a number of children, including the seven-year-old girl who has blonde hair and blue eyes.

The parents told police the child was their daughter, but officers were not satisfied with the explanation nor with the documents that were produced.

The Sunday World newspaper reported that a birth certificate was believed to have eventually been produced but officers were not satisfied with it.

The paper reported that although the couple claimed the child was born in the Coombe hospital in Dublin in 2006, the hospital had no record of the child being born on the date quoted by the parents.

Read more... (http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24626422)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/blonde-girl-7-taken-from-roma-family-in-dublin-29686005.html
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 22, 2013, 01:57:59 PM
A 7 years old girl is taken to her biological or not family just because of the colour of her hair and eyes, not because of bad treatments... Contagion isn't a vain word.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 22, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
A 7 years old girl is taken to her biological or not family just because of the colour of her hair and eyes, not because of bad treatments... Contagion isn't a vain word.

Scary isn't it? Poor kid.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 22, 2013, 02:13:35 PM
Gardai also consulted experts to establish if it was physically possible for a Roma couple to give birth to a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes.

***

How stupid are they? Did they not do biology at school!
Of course it is....it depends on the genetic mix of  colour inherited and which one comes out more dominant
I imagine this will set up panic in that community now for those with the "wrong colour eyes" and  who dont have their papers in order for their legit children
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: icabodcrane on October 22, 2013, 02:25:18 PM
There  must  be more to this story than has been reported,  surely  ?

A child's colouring not being the same as the parents is not a matter for 'the authorities'   is it ? 

...  not unless they're Roma,  apparently

This is dangerous stuff
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: south of the river on October 22, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
genetically it is impossible for two  brown eyed parents to have a blue eyed child

but I doubt this is just a random picking on a random Roma family - they must be known to the authorities or there has been a tip off from the public.

The authorities do have a responsibility to act and if the child is at risk then they need act -

suppose we will in due course 
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 22, 2013, 02:39:29 PM
There  must  be more to this story than has been reported,  surely  ?

A child's colouring not being the same as the parents is not a matter for 'the authorities'   is it ? 

...  not unless they're Roma,  apparently

This is dangerous stuff

I wonder if the reporter was "inspired" by recent events!

Bit more detail here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24626422

Reported because she looked nothing like her siblings

Physically or colour wise? Not all siblings look alike.

How long till Clarence comments......?

The DNA should tell anyway soon hopefully....then it will be a matter of right or wrong hospital records, charitable adoption if not theirs, abduction, etc etc....but yes, that they have powers to remove if a child is not in danger and only a suspicion she may not be theirs due to colour and looks   is quite unbelievable....they could have arranged for tests without traumatisinf the child, if theirs, I hope they sue for the distress
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 22, 2013, 02:41:10 PM
Black parents - white baby, anything is possible.

http://m.nbcnews.com/health/white-baby-born-black-parents-1C6437718

I didnt read the whole article, but if there was no white ancestry there, this is more of a fluke of nature....having a blonde blue eyed child while not common to Roma is not a rarity at all
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 22, 2013, 02:44:14 PM
genetically it is impossible for two  brown eyed parents to have a blue eyed child

but I doubt this is just a random picking on a random Roma family - they must be known to the authorities or there has been a tip off from the public.

The authorities do have a responsibility to act and if the child is at risk then they need act -

suppose we will in due course

Two blue eyed parents can't have a brown eyed child. If you have brown eyes you can also carry the blue eye gene but it's masked by the dominant brown eyed gene. If you're blue eyed, you don't carry the brown eyed gene, you have two copies of blue.

Green is different again. It can manifest as hazel for a start, looking more like brown, but it isn't 'proper' brown.

Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 22, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
genetically it is impossible for two  brown eyed parents to have a blue eyed child
 

Someone on yahoo answers asked a question, why they had blue eyes whilst both their parents had brown eyes, the answer:

It is because brown eyes are dominant that they can hide for generations. Here's a quick explanation.

You inherit two genes for each trait, one from each parent. But in order for you to have brown eyes, you only have to inherit a brown gene from one parent. The other gene can be blue - but it will be overridden by the brown gene. If you then have children with a person who also has one brown gene and one blue gene, the child has a 25% chance of inheriting two blue genes and will therefore have blue eyes.

If B represents a Brown gene, and b represents a blue gene, the family tree looks like this:

Mother - Bb - brown eyes
Father - bB - brown eyes

Child can be any one of these:
Bb - brown eyes
BB - brown eyes
bB - brown eyes
bb - blue eyes

So 1 in 4 chance
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: south of the river on October 22, 2013, 03:00:06 PM
Someone on yahoo answers asked a question, why they had blue eyes whilst both their parents had brown eyes, the answer:

It is because brown eyes are dominant that they can hide for generations. Here's a quick explanation.

You inherit two genes for each trait, one from each parent. But in order for you to have brown eyes, you only have to inherit a brown gene from one parent. The other gene can be blue - but it will be overridden by the brown gene. If you then have children with a person who also has one brown gene and one blue gene, the child has a 25% chance of inheriting two blue genes and will therefore have blue eyes.

If B represents a Brown gene, and b represents a blue gene, the family tree looks like this:

Mother - Bb - brown eyes
Father - bB - brown eyes

Child can be any one of these:
Bb - brown eyes
BB - brown eyes
bB - brown eyes
bb - blue eyes

So 1 in 4 chance

yes I think you might be right - I got it the other way round - two blue eyed parents cant have a brown eyed child - A level biology was a long time ago !
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 22, 2013, 03:06:26 PM
Oh yes SOTR, a long time ago for me too, google is my friend these days lol

BTW, and Cariad, if you do google, apparently two blue eyed parents can have a brown eyed child....but I digress....hope this little girl and her family's situation is sorted out pdq...unless of course she was abducted and her parents are still looking for her!
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Apostate on October 22, 2013, 07:56:10 PM
many will remember the little blonde girl in Morroco who was one of the early "sightings"


(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_04/mccannlength2509_468x361.jpg)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483941/Witness-Seeing-Madeleine-Morocco-sent-shivers-spine.html
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 22, 2013, 08:05:12 PM
Oh yes SOTR, a long time ago for me too, google is my friend these days lol

BTW, and Cariad, if you do google, apparently two blue eyed parents can have a brown eyed child....but I digress....hope this little girl and her family's situation is sorted out pdq...unless of course she was abducted and her parents are still looking for her!

Brown is dominant though? If you carry the brown eyed gene you'd be brown eyed. It will always mask the blue eyed gene. If you and your mate are both blue eyed, you only carry the blue eyed gene, so you can't pass on the brown eyed gene to your offspring.

You can be brown eyed and have a blue eyed child though as you said.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 22, 2013, 08:17:20 PM
Brown is dominant though? If you carry the brown eyed gene you'd be brown eyed. It will always mask the blue eyed gene. If you and your mate are both blue eyed, you only carry the blue eyed gene, so you can't pass on the brown eyed gene to your offspring.

You can be brown eyed and have a blue eyed child though as you said.
If you have blue eyes, you're BLUE/blue. But if you have brown eyes, you can be BROWN/blue where the blue gene is recessive.
Sometimes the blue gene is expressed only after several generations : a BROWN/blue and a BROWN/blue can produce a BROWN/brown, a BROWN/blue or a BLUE/blue.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Davel on October 22, 2013, 08:18:28 PM
Brown is dominant though? If you carry the brown eyed gene you'd be brown eyed. It will always mask the blue eyed gene. If you and your mate are both blue eyed, you only carry the blue eyed gene, so you can't pass on the brown eyed gene to your offspring.

You can be brown eyed and have a blue eyed child though as you said.

http://genetics.thetech.org/how-blue-eyed-parents-can-have-brown-eyed-children

This site has a good explanation that doesn't get too complex
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 22, 2013, 08:25:14 PM
http://genetics.thetech.org/how-blue-eyed-parents-can-have-brown-eyed-children

This site has a good explanation that doesn't get too complex

Thank you davel, excellent link and very informative!

Apologies Red, you were right and I was wrong  8()-000(
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 23, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
It's open season on the Roma community by the looks of it.
A second child was taken from a Roma couple in Athlone, Co.Westmeath but has since been returned to the couple.
http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/10/23/4018116-boy-returned-to-roma-family-in-athlone-after-enquiries/

I sometimes wonder whether this is the 21st century. The amount of people who seems to think racism against Romanies is acceptable shocks me.

I wonder how many traumatised children will be left in the wake of this modern day witch hunt?
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Davel on October 23, 2013, 12:59:42 PM
I sometimes wonder whether this is the 21st century. The amount of people who seems to think racism against Romanies is acceptable shocks me.

I wonder how many traumatised children will be left in the wake of this modern day witch hunt?

coming to a field next to your house soon
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 23, 2013, 03:08:52 PM
Romanian and Roma are not the same thing - please do not confuse
Some Romanian have even a racist attitude towards gypsies.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 03:11:52 PM
Some Romanian have even a racist attitude towards gypsies.

I'm sure they do, just as there are people from every country who have unpleasant attitudes towards others.   The point was that davel equated Roma and Romanians and I said that they are not the same thing. 
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 23, 2013, 06:31:28 PM
Finally


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html


Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: jassi on October 23, 2013, 06:37:47 PM
Finally


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html


Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time

Here's a similar story http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/23/second-child-roma-ireland-returned-athlone-dna

Maybe abduction by Gypsies is rather exaggerated.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 23, 2013, 06:38:47 PM
Finally


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html


Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time
Thanks for that news, Redblossom ! Let's hope that at least the contagion stops here.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Kazcutt on October 23, 2013, 06:39:33 PM
Finally


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html


Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time

Lets hope they stay the same ,to many chidren nicked in this world plus the family and police were working together .
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 23, 2013, 06:40:29 PM
Finally


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html


Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time

I hope to goodness that this makes the authorities stop and think before snatching children from their families again!

As much as I dislike our compensation culture, I how that girl gets a nice big pay out.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: AnneGuedes on October 23, 2013, 06:42:16 PM
I suspect this guy who denounced the little Irish Roma girl is like most people who called SY after CW.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 23, 2013, 06:44:41 PM
100% agree Jassi Anne and Cariad......

Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
Finally

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dna-test-proves-girl-7-belongs-to-roma-family-29694850.html

Perhaps they will think twice before acting so drastically next time

Here is a quote from the article - "They took her just because she has blue eyes and blonde hair. If you go over to Romania, people - most of them - have blue eyes as well."

So the sister seems to be confusing Roma and Romanians also!

Roma, as I understand it, originated in India.  Romanians are, basically, from Eastern Europe.  There is no connection.   The fact that many Roma come from Romania is a coincidence; they come from all over the rest of Europe also, they just happen to have a name which sounds like Romania.  The language spoken is totally different also
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 06:47:51 PM
Re the little girl in Ireland - I do not understand why they had to remove her from her family - DNA tests and other enquiries could have been done while she remained with them
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 23, 2013, 06:48:42 PM
Lets hope they stay the same ,to many chidren nicked in this world plus the family and police were working together .

you support police and social services removing kids from their families because their colour of eyes are different? Jeez
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Kazcutt on October 23, 2013, 06:54:09 PM
you support police and social services removing kids from their families because their colour of eyes are different? Jeez

Maybe they should check more familes instead of leaving most things till its to late .my kids eyes are different i doubt the police will take them away .it takes more info than that
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 23, 2013, 06:56:50 PM
Maybe they should check more familes instead of leaving most things till its to late .my kids eyes are different i doubt the police will take them away .it takes more info than that

Youre not Roma though are you? which info was it in the last two cases in ireland? By all accounts the only reason was a suspicion given by callers that the kids looked different! Malicious! Why this spate now? Why support more presumably Roma families be checked?

 
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Benita on October 23, 2013, 07:00:56 PM
Youre not Roma though are you? which info was it in the last two cases in ireland? By all accounts the only reason was a suspicion given by callers that the kids looked different! Malicious! Why this spate now? Why support more presumably Roma families be checked?

you ask why this spate now ..because the police are clamping down on child trafficking which is about time I say  8((()*/ too many kids going missing and not been found..
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 23, 2013, 07:05:30 PM
Youre not Roma though are you? which info was it in the last two cases in ireland? By all accounts the only reason was a suspicion given by callers that the kids looked different! Malicious! Why this spate now? Why support more presumably Roma families be checked?

They were guilty Red. Guilty of being different. Guilty of refusing to give up their culture and heritage. Guilty of the ultimate crime of Not Being Like Everybody Else!

Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Cariad on October 23, 2013, 07:09:35 PM
you ask why this spate now ..because the police are clamping down on child trafficking which is about time I say  8((()*/ too many kids going missing and not been found..

Two of the children have been returned to their families. How would you feel if your child was ripped out of your arms because they looked different to you?

I can't even imagine how terrified the childrren must have been! This not a good thing! It's a bloody witch hunt!
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Redblossom on October 23, 2013, 07:23:46 PM
Two of the children have been returned to their families. How would you feel if your child was ripped out of your arms because they looked different to you?

I can't even imagine how terrified the childrren must have been! This not a good thing! It's a bloody witch hunt!

It is a bit of a disgrace.....I wonder what her family thought as well of the utterly disgraceful but heinously comical  headlines in the Daily Star, today, MADDIE found in Ireland! You get your own child taken away for no reason and on top have people thinking you abducted Madeleine Mccan, couldnt make this crap up...besides this girl was 7 Madeleine Mccann would be 10 ....slightly less comical than the Stars earlier front page, MADDIE found in Greece, a six year age gap......PS agree with your post 38 too


Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Benita on October 23, 2013, 07:33:49 PM
how else do you expect the police to find missing kids ...what if them kids didn't belong to the parents what then eh ....fgs always jumping at the chance to condemn the authorities...well marie isn't the child of her so called parents DNA proved that ..whoever discovered her was right to report their suspicions..
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Kazcutt on October 23, 2013, 07:37:42 PM
No doubt thia is madeleines fault zzzzz wheres the yawning smiley
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Benita on October 23, 2013, 07:39:57 PM
No doubt thia is madeleines fault zzzzz wheres the yawning smiley


it was worn out  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Davel on October 23, 2013, 07:43:52 PM
It is a bit of a disgrace.....I wonder what her family thought as well of the utterly disgraceful but heinously comical  headlines in the Daily Star, today, MADDIE found in Ireland! You get your own child taken away for no reason and on top have people thinking you abducted Madeleine Mccan, couldnt make this crap up...besides this girl was 7 Madeleine Mccann would be 10 ....slightly less comical than the Stars earlier front page, MADDIE found in Greece, a six year age gap......PS agree with your post 38 too

IT would be interesting to know whose decision it  was to remove the poor child...it seems there were social workers in attendence and I m sure police would have taken their advice,,, Roma fro Romania according to the aritcle
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 07:47:40 PM
IT would be interesting to know whose decision it  was to remove the poor child...it seems there were social workers in attendence and I m sure police would have taken their advice

It is always a court decision to remove children, not the decision of the police or Social Services alone
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: jassi on October 23, 2013, 07:50:58 PM
It is always a court decision to remove children, not the decision of the police or Social Services alone

Would this apply to the Republic of Ireland ?
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Davel on October 23, 2013, 07:52:03 PM
It is always a court decision to remove children, not the decision of the police or Social Services alone

thank you for your professional input...do police have emergency powers...its seems a very strange decision to remove the child. Of course we don't know the full facts.
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 07:56:33 PM
Would this apply to the Republic of Ireland ?

I'm afraid I don't know

thank you for your professional input...do police have emergency powers...its seems a very strange decision to remove the child. Of course we don't know the full facts.

There are courts that sit in emergencies - the case can be heard as an emergency whatever the time of day or night
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Davel on October 23, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
I'm sure they do, just as there are people from every country who have unpleasant attitudes towards others.   The point was that davel equated Roma and Romanians and I said that they are not the same thing.

I was aware that the Roma originated in India but as many roma have settled in Romania the line has become a little blurred which must be irritating for the Romanians. I have a very pleasant and intelligent Romanian colleague(female) so I can imagine that your daughter in law is a very nice person..no offence intended
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: imustpointout on October 23, 2013, 08:53:50 PM
there is a section on this forum - Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: CPN on October 23, 2013, 09:12:47 PM
I was aware that the Roma originated in India but as many roma have settled in Romania the line has become a little blurred which must be irritating for the Romanians. I have a very pleasant and intelligent Romanian colleague(female) so I can imagine that your daughter in law is a very nice person..no offence intended

I just feel, as I said, that Roma and Romania have got blurred because of the name - there are indeed Roma in Romania (3.2% of the population) but more in other European countries - eg  4.7% of the population in Bulgaria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_(Romani_subgroup) is informative.

I simply wanted to correct the confusion of the names of Roma and Romania.  Incidentally many people assume that Romanian is an Eastern European / Slavic language - it is not; it is a Romance language

There are so many negative things said about Romania that I immediately come to the defence of the people and the country, as all those I have met have been charming and friendly and I have enjoyed two very interesting visits there.  My daughter-in-law is indeed very nice, very bright and she and my son are credits to their countries!

Now lets return to the subject here  8(0(*
Title: Re: Blonde haired girl taken into care from a Roma couple in Dublin.
Post by: Luz on October 25, 2013, 02:18:39 AM
Gardai also consulted experts to establish if it was physically possible for a Roma couple to give birth to a girl with blonde hair and blue eyes.

***

How stupid are they? Did they not do biology at school!
Of course it is....it depends on the genetic mix of  colour inherited and which one comes out more dominant
I imagine this will set up panic in that community now for those with the "wrong colour eyes" and  who dont have their papers in order for their legit children

Poor ignorant dudes.
...or rather, poor populations that have those xxx as authorities.