UK Justice Forum

Other High Profile Cases and Persons of Interest => Oscar Pistorius and the killing of girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. => Topic started by: John on March 09, 2013, 04:26:14 PM

Title: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 09, 2013, 04:26:14 PM
Olympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius pleads not guilty as murder trial opens.


(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/660/371/South%20Africa%20Pistorius%20trial%20opens%20mar%203.JPG?ve=1&tl=1)

Oscar Pistorius is watched by June Steenkamp, 2nd right, the mother of Reeva Steenkamp, as he arrives for his trial at the
High Court in Pretoria, South Africa. Pistorius is charged with murder with premeditation in the shooting death of his model
girlfriend Steenkamp in the pre-dawn hours of St Valentine's Day 2013.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 03, 2014, 06:08:21 AM
Oscar Pistorious trial can be viewed 'live' from 8:00am GMT here...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10668819/Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10668819/Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html)

I think this is without the hassle of having to subscribe/sign-in/pay, unlike one or two other channels.

Unless 'The Telegraph' require any of the above just before the trial begins !
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 03, 2014, 09:25:20 AM
Does anyone know what the actual charge or charges are against him?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 03, 2014, 09:37:31 AM
Does anyone know what the actual charge or charges are against him?

Just starting now on sky news.

Count 1.

Charge of murder.

Count 2 .

Contravention of the misuse of firearms act.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Carana on March 03, 2014, 10:01:37 AM
Oscar Pistorious trial can be viewed 'live' from 8:00am GMT here...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10668819/Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10668819/Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html)

I think this is without the hassle of having to subscribe/sign-in/pay, unlike one or two other channels.

Unless 'The Telegraph' require any of the above just before the trial begins !

Thanks for the link, Myster.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 03, 2014, 10:08:49 AM
Thanks for the link, Myster.

A better link is this one to Sky News - the Telegraph one was a bit fussy for me.

Click on the right hand LIVE PRETORIA screen first....

http://news.sky.com/story/1219982/oscar-pistorius-pleads-not-guilty-to-murder (http://news.sky.com/story/1219982/oscar-pistorius-pleads-not-guilty-to-murder)

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 03, 2014, 01:10:58 PM
Interesting that his neighbour said they heard BLOOD CURDLING SCREAMS, then 4 shots....
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 03, 2014, 01:52:32 PM
Don't you just hate pedantic defense councils! The neighbour sounds perfectly decent, educated and honest but the defense still have to attack her testomony!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 02:00:06 PM
Don't you just hate pedantic defense councils! The neighbour sounds perfectly decent, educated and honest but the defense still have to attack her testomony!

Yes

The point is though he tried to shake her and make her "slip up" and failed very miserably. She stood her ground, good woman. He came across as a bit of a bufoon.

 8((()*/

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Carana on March 03, 2014, 02:47:39 PM
Interesting that his neighbour said they heard BLOOD CURDLING SCREAMS, then 4 shots....

I hope that there will be a transcript, as that seems to have been a bone of contention.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 03, 2014, 02:57:04 PM
I hope that there will be a transcript, as that seems to have been a bone of contention.

So much is resting on her testimony, and the testimonies of others in the vicinity that night.

The defense have built their case around the claim that there were no arguments between the couple and that therefore there is an absence of motive for premeditated murder.

There were no witnesses on the scene so her evidence is crucial.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 03, 2014, 04:06:56 PM
So much is resting on her testimony, and the testimonies of others in the vicinity that night.

The defense have built their case around the claim that there were no arguments between the couple and that therefore there is an absence of motive for premeditated murder.

There were no witnesses on the scene so her evidence is crucial.

I completely agree Sherlock.

Did you watch the footage of Pistorius on sky news yesterday ?

Quite 'happy'  and competent when using weapons.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 04:13:40 PM
I completely agree Sherlock.

Did you watch the footage of Pistorius on sky news yesterday ?

Quite 'happy'  and competent when using weapons.

He's always looked quite happy and smug in general, (post events) really cant get my head around His smirky face!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: stephen25000 on March 03, 2014, 04:23:50 PM
He's always looked quite happy and smug in general, (post events) really cant get my head around His smirky face!

Yes Redblossom, I agree.

He had the same smirk on his face coming out of court today.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 03, 2014, 04:42:05 PM
I completely agree Sherlock.

Did you watch the footage of Pistorius on sky news yesterday ?

Quite 'happy'  and competent when using weapons.

He does indeed seem to be comfortable using weapons; there are many reports of this. Even though owning firearms is relatively common in South Africa, he does appear to have been interested in them above and beyond owning them for defense.

I didn't see the footage yesterday on Sky, stephen, but I have been  following the case closely since last year.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 03, 2014, 04:53:42 PM
If there were any screams of any kind before the shots then the judge has to find OP guilty.

It looks like the defense is going to suggest the gun shot noises were actually OP bashing the toilet door down with a cricket bat! And the woman's screams heard were actually OP screaming very high pitched because he was so frantic!

Very weak in my opinion!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 03, 2014, 05:50:45 PM
Interesting that the South African Judiciary decided to let a black female judge hear the case when both the shooter and the victim are white.  Any thoughts on this folks?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 03, 2014, 09:32:35 PM
Interesting that the South African Judiciary decided to let a black female judge hear the case when both the shooter and the victim are white.  Any thoughts on this folks?

Probably directed to by the ANC.

Personally after O J Simpson and Casey Anthony, I am glad there is no jury. Too many jurors in big cases want their own 15 minutes of fame by swimming against the tide!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 09:47:25 PM
Is it just the one charge? Murder or acquittal?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 09:48:02 PM
Typical class shown in the UK I see: betting on the trial outcome. Smooth.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 09:55:23 PM
Yes Redblossom, I agree.

He had the same smirk on his face coming out of court today.

Well, it doesnt prove he is guilty of course maybe just a look at me Im a celebrity!! kind of thing! Urgh


If there were any screams of any kind before the shots then the judge has to find OP guilty.

It looks like the defense is going to suggest the gun shot noises were actually OP bashing the toilet door down with a cricket bat! And the woman's screams heard were actually OP screaming very high pitched because he was so frantic!

Very weak in my opinion!

Agreed there.


Is it just the one charge? Murder or acquittal?

Criminal law experts believe that if the prosecution fails to prove premeditated murder, firing several shots through a closed door could bring a conviction for the lesser charge of culpable homicide, a South African equivalent of manslaughter covering unintentional deaths through negligence. Sentences in such cases range from fines to prison. They are left to courts to determine and are not set by fixed guidelines.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/oscar-pistorius-trial-begins
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 03, 2014, 09:56:37 PM
Is it just the one charge? Murder or acquittal?

Yes just one charge, murder! There are three other minor charges involving misuse of a firearm and ammunition in instances not related to the MURDER of Reeva.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 10:00:20 PM
Yes just one charge, murder! There are three other minor charges involving misuse of a firearm and ammunition in instances not related to the MURDER of Reeva.

I know but they can change it later as Red says?

You can't just gun people down and walk away. Can you? >@@(*&)

Brunty's down at the trial, Red 8)-)))
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 10:07:24 PM
I know but they can change it later as Red says?

You can't just gun people down and walk away. Can you? >@@(*&)

Brunty's down at the trial, Red 8)-)))

Yes I saw him LOL on Sky, sorry, he just makes me laugh for some reason, I think  its somethng to do with tryng really hard to put on a straight face and not get a word wrong

The gun charges brought I think were to do with painting a picture of him being trigger happy. A year before his gun just "went off" whilst he was in a car with friends and then again it just "went off" in a restaraunt! Self shooting guns hey? Dangerous. He pleaded not guilty, it was the guns fault.

As for gunnng people down and walking away, Scot free, I agree, it doesnt seem right but he didnt know it was HER so defence is self defence
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 10:20:53 PM
Interesting case Red. So far I don't see him not being convicted of something but it's early days.

What do you think? How do you shoot somebody dead through a closed door? Wound maybe, but accuracy enough to kill?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 10:23:44 PM
Interesting case Red. So far I don't see him not being convicted of something but it's early days.

What do you think? How do you shoot somebody dead through a closed door? Wound maybe, but accuracy enough to kill?

Thats a very good question!

I think he is guilty as sin as the story doesnt stack up much. But lets see.

Eta the prosecution have over a hundred witnesses! Roux and the other guy are going to have their work cut out here.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 11:09:55 PM
A hundred? But I read the trial is expected to be over in three weeks (I think!)

(checking..)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 03, 2014, 11:15:05 PM
A hundred? But I read the trial is expected to be over in three weeks (I think!)

(checking..)

it was off the guardian link i posted earlier, but yes yu are right its been reported the trial is expected to take three weeks but could go on further!


State prosecutors are expected to paint an unflattering portrait of Pistorius as reckless, hot-headed and obsessed with guns, and have lined up 107 witnesses for the trial, including Pistorius's ex-girlfriends Melissa Rom and Samantha Taylor, whose mother welcomed the end of their relationship. Erin Stear, who has denied reports she had an affair with Pistorius, will also take the stand, as will the former footballer Mark Batchelor, who has claimed that Pistorius threatened to "break my legs" because he was a close friend of Steenkamp, a law graduate, model and reality TV star.

G'nite now Lyall, tomorrow will be as interesting
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 03, 2014, 11:27:57 PM
Cheers, Red. Looks like a longer trial than I thought then.

I've just been reading a few pages and I have a list of questions for Mr P already. Itwill be interesting to see how they're answered through the trial.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 03, 2014, 11:39:42 PM
The prosecution may not call all 100+ witnesses. For example the neighbour who testified today was listed as #80. I hope they don't drag it out. Short and sharp does the trick.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 04, 2014, 12:15:58 AM
The prosecution may not call all 100+ witnesses. For example the neighbour who testified today was listed as #80. I hope they don't drag it out. Short and sharp does the trick.

That is my understanding of the system, Tim. The witnesses are provided by the prosecution and defense and the  judge is under no obligation to hear everyone on the list.

She will wind things up when she feels she has sufficient evidence to make a decision.  So in theory things could go relatively swiftly.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 04, 2014, 08:55:53 AM
Day 2 sees first prosecution witness Dr Michelle Burger take the stand again as defence attorney Roux attempts to shake her testimony.   

The judge is far too lax with defence lawyer Barry Roux.  How many times is he allowed to ask the same stupid question?  Witness Michelle Burger has stated what the series of events were which she heard that night and all Roux is attempting to do is discredit her.  That is a classic attempt to muddy the waters rather than get to the truth.

He wouldn't be allowed to get away with that shit in a British court but then again this is newly emancipated South Africa.

Could I just add, Pistorius is guilty of an unlawful killing, there is no excuse for what he did.  He hasn't served a single day in prison for his crime so let's hope this changes and very soon too!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 04, 2014, 09:20:47 AM
Indeed. See page 3, point 5

http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/130819pistoriusindictment.pdf
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 04, 2014, 12:15:25 PM
Dr Burger a credit to her sex.

Not being flustered by his techniques and patronising tones.

'It's not a difficult question to answer'

'No, I've answered it eight times.'

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 04, 2014, 12:18:41 PM
Dr Burger a credit to her sex.

Not being flustered by his techniques and patronising tones.

'It's not a difficult question to answer'

'No, I've answered it eight times.'

Roux has been shown up to be the prize prat that he is, in more ways than one, long may it contnue!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 04, 2014, 12:43:09 PM
The fact the defense lawyer feels the need to try to badger and bully a witness into changing her story smacks of desperation to me! If one female scream was heard at anytime by any witness then Oscar Pistol-swagger has to be guilty .... end of!

I believe that witness 100%.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 04, 2014, 01:37:53 PM
Mr Pistorius appears to be having to wade through a mob to get into the court (unless the footage is from last year). That's not good - the judge ought to sort that out.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 04, 2014, 01:43:49 PM
2 women have more or less said the same thing. IF there was arguing for hours before the shooting it shows they were awake and together so either way he has lied. I believe these 2 women. Still he will probably get away with it some how. I have no confidence in these cases.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 04, 2014, 03:47:48 PM
2 women have more or less said the same thing. IF there was arguing for hours before the shooting it shows they were awake and together so either way he has lied. I believe these 2 women. Still he will probably get away with it some how. I have no confidence in these cases.

I am optimistic justice will be done. The atmosphere in South Africa does not seem pro Pistorius. The only demonstrations outside the court have been the ANC women protesting against violence to women, so effectively supporting Reeva.

Bamber has no chance of release. Simon Hall didn't get away with murder. Lee Rigby's killers got the right sentences. Shrien Dewani should be extradited soon .... justice seems to be on a winning streak!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 04, 2014, 03:57:53 PM
What I dont understand though is, if the screams were so bloodcurdling, why she did nothing about it until she'd heard about what happened the next morning. Sorry, I just heard a news item saying that, I haven't listened to the testimony yet. Need to catch up! Did she call the police or alert anyone?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Air Con on March 04, 2014, 04:09:13 PM
Snip.....
 And the woman's screams heard were actually OP screaming very high pitched because he was so frantic!

Very weak in my opinion!

Read that on the sky news feed on twitter yesterday.

Apparently they've got witnesses who can contest to it being true.

So he really is a big girl then.

If I was in his shoes and that was my only defence I'd be extremely worried.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 04, 2014, 04:16:45 PM
2 women have more or less said the same thing. IF there was arguing for hours before the shooting it shows they were awake and together so either way he has lied. I believe these 2 women. Still he will probably get away with it some how. I have no confidence in these cases.

I totally agree, not only two women but Michelle Burgers hubby Charl too.  If Roux is trying to engender the notion that it was all one big coincidence he is on a hiding to nothing.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 04, 2014, 04:28:42 PM
What I dont understand though is, if the screams were so bloodcurdling, why she did nothing about it until she'd heard about what happened the next morning. Sorry, I just heard a news item saying that, I haven't listened to the testimony yet. Need to catch up! Did she call the police or alert anyone?

She said her husband phoned security just after she heard the first screams. Listen to the video clip about half way through here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 04, 2014, 05:04:14 PM
I found these on youtube, for anyone who wants to watch them.


Monday 3rd March, Session 1


Session 2


Tuesday 4th March

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 04, 2014, 05:21:34 PM
She said her husband phoned security just after she heard the first screams. Listen to the video clip about half way through here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086)

She said hubby called security BEFORE the gun shots ... if that is proven then that is damning evidence too.

Remember this witness lived in the neighbouring compound to OP's so calling her security seems more than reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 04, 2014, 06:18:45 PM
She said her husband phoned security just after she heard the first screams. Listen to the video clip about half way through here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26418086)

Yes, I was listening live this morning and her husband said she called the wrong security firm in error, not having updated the contact on her phone from the time she and her husband moved to this complex from anther neighborhood.

So much for the idea of being paranoid about security.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 04, 2014, 07:52:51 PM
Anyone think Oscar might be innocent? IE he thought it was a burglar locked in the toilet.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 04, 2014, 08:05:25 PM
Anyone think Oscar might be innocent? IE he thought it was a burglar locked in the toilet.
Well, burglars are known to dump whilst on the jobby... so yes from me!  8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 04, 2014, 08:18:38 PM
I found these on youtube, for anyone who wants to watch them.


8(>(( Ta.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 04, 2014, 09:56:25 PM
Anyone think Oscar might be innocent? IE he thought it was a burglar locked in the toilet.
No, he is 100 per cent guilty of manslaughter at the very least. End of the day he didnt have a clue who was in there or if they were armed. Could have been a child even! And why would any burglar lock themselves in the toilet? To have a think? if they wanted to go through wih it?


Eta
And would he go shooting if he didnt  make sure his girlfriend was not the one in there? Did he do that? No.

And her screaming before the gunshots puts his defence at rock bottom!

Then there is another question. How did he know his shots would actually hit anyone?

And I know this is subjective but I find his whole smug smirking sniggering contemptuous demeanour quite  disturbing. JUST like OJ! What is it wth some of these alpha male sporting celebrities?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 05, 2014, 03:14:33 AM
I am a greater believer in visual imagery when it comes to guilt.   This enduring image of Pistorius is the one I always remember.  Innocent people don't hide their face!

(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c108.0.403.403/p403x403/487743_513401675365448_1313663916_n.jpg)

Oscar Pistorius accompanied by SA police officers after killing of Reeva Steenkamp.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 05, 2014, 03:57:44 AM
How the state’s witnesses will build its case.

(http://www.witness.co.za/portal/witness_db1/UserFiles/SysDocs/bb_content/120000/115214/Oscar%20and%20Samantha%20Taylor.jpg)

State witness and former girlfriend Samantha Taylor with Pistorius in the Seychelles. 

The neighbours...
THE state alleges that Pistorius murdered Steenkamp after an argument.
To support this, they are relying on the testimony of Estelle van der Merwe, who lives diagonally opposite his house, about 98 metres away.
In the early hours of Valentine’s Day last year, she allegedly heard a woman speaking continually, which sounded like an argument and stopped after gunshots were heard.
Charl Peter Johnson and Michelle Burger heard a woman scream before hearing shots.
Johan and Anette Stipp heard shots, then a woman’s scream, then more shots.
The state says there was a shot, then silence, then three more shots in quick succession.

The ballistics...
Police ballistics expert Captain Chris Mangena will testify that Pistorius was further than 60 cm from the toilet door and apparently without his prosthetic legs when he fired. The trajectory of the bullets will indicate Pistorius’s position when he fired.
The state will also use the testimony of blood spatter expert Colonel Ian van der Nest.

The security guards...
The state alleges that the estate’s security service phoned Pistorius after the shots were heard. When a guard asked if everything was all right, Pistorius allegedly said he was “fine”.
The state alleges that Pistorius fabricated a defence, and phoned friends, but did not call the security or the police to report the incident.

The ex-girlfriend...
Samantha Taylor went out with Pistorius for about 18 months, going on holiday in the Seychelles with him in September 2012.
They broke up shortly afterwards. At the time, Taylor told Rapport newspaper that Oscar “wasn’t what people think”. She said she was ready to tell all about “what Oscar put me through”, but then decided against it.
It is expected that her testimony could be some of the most sensational.

The friend...
Darren Fresco was present on both occasions when Pistorius allegedly fired a firearm recklessly in public.
His testimony will therefore be important in proving the two charges of misuse of a firearm. He will also paint a picture of Pistorius’s circle and social life.

www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global%5B_id%5D=115214
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 05, 2014, 06:45:21 AM
No, he is 100 per cent guilty of manslaughter at the very least. End of the day he didnt have a clue who was in there or if they were armed. Could have been a child even! And why would any burglar lock themselves in the toilet? To have a think? if they wanted to go through wih it?


Eta
And would he go shooting if he didnt  make sure his girlfriend was not the one in there? Did he do that? No.

And her screaming before the gunshots puts his defence at rock bottom!

Then there is another question. How did he know his shots would actually hit anyone?

And I know this is subjective but I find his whole smug smirking sniggering contemptuous demeanour quite  disturbing. JUST like OJ! What is it wth some of these alpha male sporting celebrities?

I agree Red.

The other thing is why would your girlfriend lock the bathroom door if she was just going to have a pee? I dont even bother to turn the light on as I know where the loo is. I dont think i have ever locked the toilet door in memory. Its an odd thing to do when your with someone you love and feel safe......
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 05, 2014, 11:16:03 AM
I agree Red.

The other thing is why would your girlfriend lock the bathroom door if she was just going to have a pee? I dont even bother to turn the light on as I know where the loo is. I dont think i have ever locked the toilet door in memory. Its an odd thing to do when your with someone you love and feel safe......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10091015/Oscar-Pistorius-leaked-photos-show-crime-scene-for-first-time.html

See begnning and end of article, it could be she was writing a valentines note/card? Would make sense to lock yourself away to do something in secret.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 05, 2014, 12:06:30 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/10091015/Oscar-Pistorius-leaked-photos-show-crime-scene-for-first-time.html

See begnning and end of article, it could be she was writing a valentines note/card? Would make sense to lock yourself away to do something in secret.

Surely if she was doing that, the envelope would have been covered in blood,and would she have had time to put it back in the envelope and move it away from where she was shot?

 it states.....

One of the photos, which stands out for its absence of blood, appears to show an envelope and a bag of pink, heart-shaped candies.

The envelope is addressed to “Ozzy” - Steenkamp’s nickname for Pistorius - in what appears to be her handwriting.
[/i]

Nah dont believe that anyway, she went there to see him i am sure she already had his card ready.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 05, 2014, 12:21:53 PM
She could well have written it or added to it later and put it aside somewhere where it didnt get spattered, we shall see

Im off to watch the odious Barry Roux cross examine Pistorius's friend about his accidental shootng off a gun in the restaraunt and see how tries to twist anything or try and discredit ths witness too
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 05, 2014, 12:35:59 PM
The Sky news app for ipad has full excellent coverage  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on March 05, 2014, 02:54:59 PM
He has stated previously that she gave him a gift (and presumably a card with it?)when she arrived at his house telling him "not to open until the morning".
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 05, 2014, 05:44:10 PM
8(>(( Ta.

Thanks , Tim!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 05, 2014, 05:45:48 PM
Did he give her a gift?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 05, 2014, 06:03:25 PM
Did he give her a gift?

4 bullets one of which missed.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 05, 2014, 06:19:25 PM
4 bullets one of which missed.

She wanted him to buy her a book, he gave her a magazine.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 05, 2014, 06:23:54 PM
She wanted him to buy her a book, he gave her a magazine.

She also got a few rounds.  She made him stump up.

When the security guard on duty telephoned to check that all was well after having been alerted to screams and gunfire, Pistorius said it was.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Carana on March 05, 2014, 07:07:39 PM
I am a greater believer in visual imagery when it comes to guilt.   This enduring image of Pistorius is the one I always remember.  Innocent people don't hide their face!

(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/c108.0.403.403/p403x403/487743_513401675365448_1313663916_n.jpg)

Oscar Pistorius accompanied by SA police officers after killing of Reeva Steenkamp.

Where do people who have been arrested (or who may have been taken in for questioning) normally show their faces to the press scrum?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Carana on March 05, 2014, 07:14:15 PM
I agree Red.

The other thing is why would your girlfriend lock the bathroom door if she was just going to have a pee? I dont even bother to turn the light on as I know where the loo is. I dont think i have ever locked the toilet door in memory. Its an odd thing to do when your with someone you love and feel safe......

Neither would I, unless I sensed that there was a possible intruder who may - or may not - rape or kill me in a country known for violent crime. If I didn't know what was going on outside, yes, I'd lock the toilet. Who wouldn't?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 05, 2014, 09:45:37 PM
He has stated previously that she gave him a gift (and presumably a card with it?)when she arrived at his house telling him "not to open until the morning".

Thanks for that. In any case the envelope and sweets were found in the toilet/bathroom. It will all come out in the wash I expect.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 05, 2014, 09:58:38 PM
Day 3 Wednesday 5 March

Session 1


Session 2


Session 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4nV-tMStRw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

(cant get it to embed)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 05, 2014, 10:35:42 PM
She wanted him to buy her a book, he gave her a magazine.

Well she was a cover girl
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 05, 2014, 10:40:17 PM
She also got a few rounds.  She made him stump up.

When the security guard on duty telephoned to check that all was well after having been alerted to screams and gunfire, Pistorius said it was.

The fact that he seems to have lied does not have to suggest that it was premeditated.

He would have been in panic and shock at that point regardless of what had occurred.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 05, 2014, 10:49:33 PM
4 bullets one of which missed.

Funny. But I was wondering why we haven' t heard mention of any gifts he may have given her that night. Perhaps he did not have a gift for her, only she one for him, and that triggered (sorry) a conversation.

Just a thought
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 05, 2014, 11:45:25 PM
Funny. But I was wondering why we haven' t heard mention of any gifts he may have given her that night. Perhaps he did not have a gift for her, only she one for him, and that triggered (sorry) a conversation.

Just a thought

Well if Oscar is like me he would have been intending to by the pressie and card on the day!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 05, 2014, 11:51:12 PM
Thanks for posting the trial videos Red.   8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 06, 2014, 09:26:15 AM
Defence attorney Barry Roux continues his attempts to undermine witness evidence by calling into question what they heard on the night Reeva was murdered.

States witness Charl Johnson tells the court this morning that he owns and uses a 9mm handgun so is very cognisant of what it sounds like when fired.  Roux has his work cut out if he is to make any ground on this issue imo.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 06, 2014, 11:13:54 AM
Surely the evidence of Dr. Johan Stipp today has nailed OP as undoubtably guilty! This doctor lives only 70m from OP's house in direct line of sight. He saw lights on and heard a women's screams then gunshots!

I know defense attorney's have to do their job but I don't see how even the odious Roux is going to attack this witness's concise and riveting testimony!

If OP gets of this it will truly be a MOJ!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 06, 2014, 12:48:35 PM
Jesus wept the judge is a moron; she can't follow what the lawyers are saying at all! I don't know if English is her second language but her command of it is appalling!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 06, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Is that a quote from Oscar's lawyer? 8)--))
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lyall on March 06, 2014, 01:08:20 PM
Barrister? >@@(*&) What are they called there?

I tuned in to watch proceedings, 1m after Judge Masipa adjourns court for the day. Rude!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 06, 2014, 02:16:26 PM
Day 4 - Thursday March 6

Session 1



Session 2


Session 3

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 06, 2014, 02:23:21 PM
Poor Mr Roux clutching at straws  pastry

He will be cooked very soon by his more respectable  opponent and all his witnesses



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 06, 2014, 02:35:11 PM
Poor Mr Roux clutching at straws  pastry

He will be cooked very soon by his more respectable  opponent and all his witnesses

I hope you're right Red but that judge worries me. I wouldn't let her judge a beauty pageant (too complicated!) let alone a murder trial! I just hope the two assessors sitting either side of her are more clued up!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 06, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
I hope you're right Red but that judge worries me. I wouldn't let her judge a beauty pageant (too complicated!) let alone a murder trial! I just hope the two assessors sitting either side of her are more clued up!

I didn't watch today but for  a few minutes, so not  sure what she's done but Roux is so extremely slappable, it's unbelievable the way he is trying to distort what witnesses are saying and then trying to put words into their mouths too and tell them what they were thinking or not! Unfortunately total  slimebags do win trials, lets see

The judge seems to me all in all to be behaving like a scribe or something, you wouldnt think she was the judge, its a little wierd, perhaps that's her "way"

 >@@(*&)


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 07, 2014, 12:14:00 AM
I hope you're right Red but that judge worries me. I wouldn't let her judge a beauty pageant (too complicated!) let alone a murder trial! I just hope the two assessors sitting either side of her are more clued up!

Why do you say that, Tim?

Maybe she is just being understated..?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 07, 2014, 12:39:15 AM
Why do you say that, Tim?

Maybe she is just being understated..?

Sherlock understated is good. I was initially glad to see a single female judge; but today she could not follow a basic argument between the opposing advocates and asked the most ludicrous of questions. Hopefully she was just having a bad day at the office but she appeared totally clueless to me.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 07, 2014, 03:49:55 AM
Sherlock understated is good. I was initially glad to see a single female judge; but today she could not follow a basic argument between the opposing advocates and asked the most ludicrous of questions. Hopefully she was just having a bad day at the office but she appeared totally clueless to me.

Thanks for that, Tim. I didn't have time yet to watch the video for today's proceedings but will look at it closely with the judge in mind.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 07, 2014, 07:11:32 AM
Sherlock understated is good. I was initially glad to see a single female judge; but today she could not follow a basic argument between the opposing advocates and asked the most ludicrous of questions. Hopefully she was just having a bad day at the office but she appeared totally clueless to me.
Thanks for that, Tim. I didn't have time yet to watch the video for today's proceedings but will look at it closely with the judge in mind.

Judge Thoko Masipa must have been thought very competent and capable of coming to a sensible decision in the Pistorius case to be appointed in the first place. She sentenced house robber Shepherd Moyo to life for three rape offences in May 2013.

And in a similar case to this current one she told former police inspector Freddy Mashamba that he deserved the sentence he received -  jail for life for shooting dead his wife in 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thokozile_Masipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thokozile_Masipa)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 07, 2014, 06:49:54 PM
Sherlock understated is good. I was initially glad to see a single female judge; but today she could not follow a basic argument between the opposing advocates and asked the most ludicrous of questions. Hopefully she was just having a bad day at the office but she appeared totally clueless to me.

Just watched the whole thing, Tim, and I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with regard to the judge's questions.

The argument between the advocates is where they are discussing whether Roux should be permitted to put to the witness questions about the two sets of noises he claims to have heard, and whether or not the witness could have got male and female screams mixed up, is that right?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 07, 2014, 07:23:37 PM
Samantha Taylor, 5th day prosecution witness and ex-girlfriend of Oscar Pistorius - beautiful young woman... some men don't know how lucky they are until they start to play away, then lose it all !

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-athlete-cheated-on-me-with-reeva-steenkamp-former-girlfriend-samantha-taylor-tells-murder-trial-9175954.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-athlete-cheated-on-me-with-reeva-steenkamp-former-girlfriend-samantha-taylor-tells-murder-trial-9175954.html)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 07, 2014, 07:45:29 PM
Samantha Taylor, 5th day prosecution witness and ex-girlfriend of Oscar Pistorius - beautiful young woman... some men don't know how lucky they are until they start to play away, then lose it all !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/14/article-2278774-17948444000005DC-552_634x412.jpg (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/02/14/article-2278774-17948444000005DC-552_634x412.jpg)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-athlete-cheated-on-me-with-reeva-steenkamp-former-girlfriend-samantha-taylor-tells-murder-trial-9175954.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-athlete-cheated-on-me-with-reeva-steenkamp-former-girlfriend-samantha-taylor-tells-murder-trial-9175954.html)

She's lucky she got away.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Redblossom on March 07, 2014, 09:01:46 PM
Day 5 Friday March 7

Session 1



Session 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2-K0wcvslA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
wont embed

Session 3


Session 4



Session 5

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 08, 2014, 11:45:15 AM
Amazing, Redblossom. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 10, 2014, 01:36:17 PM
Little happening today from a media standpoint, Court Day 6.

Defense Advocate Roux seems to have succeeded in poking holes in Advocate Nel's preparation of state witness Pieter Baba, the security guard whom Pistorius is said to have called after the shooting and claimed that everything was 'OK'.

Roux has unearthed a verbal inconsistency between two of the statements made by Baba regarding Pistorius' exact words ('Everything is OK' vs 'I'm OK' - the latter being arguably less misleading a statement).

Roux also claims to have phone records which show that Pistorius called Baba, and not the other way around, though he declines to produce those records at this time.

Prosecutor Nel is visibly perturbed by all this - so one up for the defense today, so far.

Meanwhile the judge has ordered media away, to 'protect the dignity of the deceased', as the court hears disturbing details of the autopsy via the testimony of Professor Simon.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 10, 2014, 06:04:02 PM
Day 6 - Monday, 10th. March, 2014.

Session 1... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKKrzo22dUI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKKrzo22dUI)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 10, 2014, 06:10:15 PM
Reeva Steenkamp never stood a chance with an expanding bullet like this 9mm. Black Talon penetrating her brain...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c42/PB92/Picture254.jpg (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c42/PB92/Picture254.jpg)

One of the guns Pistorius carried with him and kept at the side of his bed was thought to be a 9mm. Taurus Parabellum like this one photographed in 2010. Might have been the same one he used on Reeva and later recovered from the scene...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282675/Oscar-Pistorius-case-The-gun-Blade-Runner-kept-bed-pictured.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282675/Oscar-Pistorius-case-The-gun-Blade-Runner-kept-bed-pictured.html)

Trade photo of a similar 9mm. Taurus Parabellum...

(http://i.imgur.com/tNSfnZh.jpg)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 11, 2014, 12:37:27 AM
Shocking.

To fire into the toilet at close range he knew he would be causing an absolutely excruciating death to whomever was in there. Did a burglar deserve that, any more than Reeva Steenkamp?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 11, 2014, 04:09:44 PM
I agree Sherlock. With the gun he had and that especially lethal ammunition,  to shoot 4 times thru a locked door would be a gross overreaction even if he knew there was a burglar in the toilet. Of course he knew damn well who was hiding from HIM behind that door! IMHO
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 11, 2014, 04:37:18 PM
I agree Sherlock. With the gun he had and that especially lethal ammunition,  to shoot 4 times thru a locked door would be a gross overreaction even if he knew there was a burglar in the toilet. Of course he knew damn well who was hiding from HIM behind that door! IMHO

Reeva screamed after the first shot but the b........ fired three more.  Hanging is too good for him!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 11, 2014, 11:57:15 PM
I agree Sherlock. With the gun he had and that especially lethal ammunition,  to shoot 4 times thru a locked door would be a gross overreaction even if he knew there was a burglar in the toilet. Of course he knew damn well who was hiding from HIM behind that door! IMHO


Yes, Tim,  that ammunition is something incredible. I just looked up those flower petal bullets but couldn't look at them for too long.

Apparently they are banned in several places.

The idea that someone would go out of their way to select bullets for their personal weapon that caused maximum damage (normally profound internal injuries) says a lot.

Even a graze (from one bullet) according to the pathologist, could cause death in minutes due to the excessive bleeding these bullets cause.

Yet he fired four.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 11, 2014, 11:59:15 PM
Reeva screamed after the first shot but the b........ fired three more.  Hanging is too good for him!

Well in that case we will probably see justice served, because by all accounts life in a South African jail is probably much worse.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 12, 2014, 12:05:31 AM

Yes, Tim,  that ammunition is something incredible. I just looked up those flower petal bullets but couldn't look at them for too long.

Apparently they are banned in several places.

The idea that someone would go out of their way to select bullets for their personal weapon that caused maximum damage (normally profound internal injuries) says a lot.

Even a graze (from one bullet) according to the pathologist, could cause death in minutes due to the excessive bleeding these bullets cause.

Yet he fired four.

I haven't really being following this, because it was a very nasty crime, however I didn't realise how cruel. How can someone do that to their partner? Terrible!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 12, 2014, 06:47:46 AM
Reeva Steenkamp never stood a chance with an expanding bullet like this 9mm. Black Talon penetrating her brain...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c42/PB92/Picture254.jpg (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c42/PB92/Picture254.jpg)

One of the guns Pistorius carried with him and kept at the side of his bed was thought to be a 9mm. Taurus Parabellum like this one photographed in 2010. Might have been the same one he used on Reeva and later recovered from the scene...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282675/Oscar-Pistorius-case-The-gun-Blade-Runner-kept-bed-pictured.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282675/Oscar-Pistorius-case-The-gun-Blade-Runner-kept-bed-pictured.html)

Trade photo of a similar 9mm. Taurus Parabellum...

(http://i.imgur.com/tNSfnZh.jpg)

To even contemplate using this ammunition shows the mind of this guy. I think I am right he is suffering from sort sort of PTSD or mental issues.

These bullets are only used to ensure DEATH in the worse way and I thought they were banned or have they been re manufactured under another name.

That poor girl knew what was happening she tried to protect herself, she must have screamed or shouted his name. I  hope he rots in hell one day, but these so called famous killers seem to get away with murder.

That poor girl it makes me cry. 8)><(
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 12, 2014, 08:58:11 AM
From what I have seen of the trial so far I have yet to hear anything which comes anywhere near Pistorius version of events. Roux certainly has his work cut out defending this killer.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 12, 2014, 01:44:09 PM
To even contemplate using this ammunition shows the mind of this guy. I think I am right he is suffering from sort sort of PTSD or mental issues.

I'm no psychologist but he is clearly a very disturbed person, and complex. Powerful and privileged on the one hand, and unusually vulnerable on the other.

He certainly can't blame this thing on the climate of fear in South Africa. That fear is genuine and real,  but it does not explain what he has done.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 12, 2014, 08:36:24 PM
Day 8
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 12, 2014, 11:54:28 PM
Thanks for that, Anna.

Were you following along today?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 13, 2014, 12:28:58 AM
Thanks for that, Anna.

Were you following along today?

I tried, but its too scary to watch this normal looking lad, who is accused of brutally killing his girlfriend. Unbelievable  8(8-)) Poor Lass
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 13, 2014, 08:37:34 AM
  13/03/2013 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 13, 2014, 12:34:55 PM
Thanks for posting links to the trial .... they are watched :)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: QC on March 13, 2014, 08:17:16 PM
Just a point no one seems to have mentioned, she apparently locked the toilet door when she was inside, as they were the only people in the apartment why would she do that unless she was running away from him. 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on March 13, 2014, 08:34:23 PM
Just a point no one seems to have mentioned, she apparently locked the toilet door when she was inside, as they were the only people in the apartment why would she do that unless she was running away from him.

Privacy.   No matter how beautiful women are it would be a let down for some to let anyone, including boyfriends, see them relieving themselves (to put it bluntly).

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on March 13, 2014, 09:10:59 PM
Agreed! But how many of us take our mobile phones into the loo with us?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 13, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
Privacy.   No matter how beautiful women are it would be a let down for some to let anyone, including boyfriends, see them relieving themselves (to put it bluntly).

Habit too, I always lock the door when in someone else's house.  As far as using a mobile in the toilet is concerned I have been known to moderate this forum using one from that very location on occasion.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on March 14, 2014, 11:42:38 AM
I hope Oscar Pistorius gets convicted of murder. This was a CRUEL murder, and I don´t buy his BS story for one second. Didn´t Reeva also have days old bruises on her?
Why didn´t Pistorius seek help for his obvious anger/insecurity issues? He was accustomed to rigorous training with personal trainers - psychological as well as physical training. The concept of working with your psyche cannot have been alien to him.
Incredibly I have heard people say that he should have special treatment in court because of his handicap. Not in my book. He was not that handicapped that he could not abuse other people and finally mercilessly and cruelly shoot his girlfriend. Was he a trainwreck waiting to happen?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 14, 2014, 12:03:22 PM
I agree, the previous foolhardy incident in a crowded restaurant and the shooting of bullets out of a car sunroof reveals a very irresponsible individual who appears to have delighted in manipulating others.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on March 14, 2014, 12:21:51 PM
I agree, the previous foolhardy incident in a crowded restaurant and the shooting of bullets out of a car sunroof reveals a very irresponsible individual who appears to have delighted in manipulating others.

He asked a friend to "take the rap" for the restaurant incident - which the friend gladly did. Apparently some amount of "yes-people" around him.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2014, 12:31:10 PM
  1
    2
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 14, 2014, 02:32:51 PM
Habit too, I always lock the door when in someone else's house.  As far as using a mobile in the toilet is concerned I have been known to moderate this forum using one from that very location on occasion.

Thanks for that trade secret, John!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 14, 2014, 02:39:43 PM
I hope Oscar Pistorius gets convicted of murder. This was a CRUEL murder, and I don´t buy his BS story for one second. Didn´t Reeva also have days old bruises on her?
Why didn´t Pistorius seek help for his obvious anger/insecurity issues? He was accustomed to rigorous training with personal trainers - psychological as well as physical training. The concept of working with your psyche cannot have been alien to him.
Incredibly I have heard people say that he should have special treatment in court because of his handicap. Not in my book. He was not that handicapped that he could not abuse other people and finally mercilessly and cruelly shoot his girlfriend. Was he a trainwreck waiting to happen?

He was absolutely a trainwreck waiting to happen.

It's a very interesting point you raise about the management of the anger problems in training.

Do you know anything about sports psychology? I would be intererested to know more about this aspect of his history.

Could it be - just of the top of my head as I am no expert - that his anger and his dark side in general was what pushed him to run? Therefore it was not a simple question of sending him on an anger management course or the like, or discussing this issue, as would be done with a person in more normal circumstances.

Take out the anger and you wouldn't have the athlete - in this particular case.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on March 14, 2014, 03:01:37 PM
He was absolutely a trainwreck waiting to happen.

It's a very interesting point you raise about the management of the anger problems in training.

Do you know anything about sports psychology? I would be intererested to know more about this aspect of his history.

Could it be - just of the top of my head as I am no expert - that his anger and his dark side in general was what pushed him to run? Therefore it was not a simple question of sending him on an anger management course or the like, or discussing this issue, as would be done with a person in more normal circumstances.

Take out the anger and you wouldn't have the athlete - in this particular case.

Just a thought.

I agree - and have thought this too. Still, I wonder if that energy (rage) couldn´t have been channelled into something more positive than temper tantrums, random shootings, going off in people´s faces at the slightest "insult", possible spousal abuse (Reeva´s days old bruises) and finally murder.
The running is positive, all the other aspects are negative.
No, I don´t know anything about sports psychology other than I know they work in a goal oriented way with the athletes. One key word is COMPOSURE UNDER PRESSURE.
Can´t say that Oscar mastered that very well.....
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 14, 2014, 03:10:17 PM
Thanks for that trade secret, John!

You're welcome  8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Session 3
Session 4 14 march

Session 1 & 2 are below
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: C.Edwards on March 17, 2014, 10:54:34 PM
I've been forcing myself, since the whole OP case began, to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and I now find myself in a curious place, whereby I am mentally prepared to give his story a degree of plausibility. I'm not saying it's likely, but I do find myself thinking it's plausible.

The really odd thing now is that I find myself wondering if the McCann supporters feel about them the way I do about OP...? Which is that until he's convicted, he's innocent, whereas many on this thread are already talking as though he's guilty and I find that somewhat distasteful. 

I do find myself questioning whether I am right to continue to be quite so prejudiced against the McCanns as I maybe am being?  For all the lack of plausibility I give their stories, I can see a clear correlation with how those that support them must feel.

It's really weird being on this side of the fence - it's remarkably easy to excuse and accept things from OP's defence that others clearly feel are completely beyond reason or credibility.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 18, 2014, 12:41:14 AM
I've been forcing myself, since the whole OP case began, to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and I now find myself in a curious place, whereby I am mentally prepared to give his story a degree of plausibility. I'm not saying it's likely, but I do find myself thinking it's plausible.

The really odd thing now is that I find myself wondering if the McCann supporters feel about them the way I do about OP...? Which is that until he's convicted, he's innocent, whereas many on this thread are already talking as though he's guilty and I find that somewhat distasteful. 

I do find myself questioning whether I am right to continue to be quite so prejudiced against the McCanns as I maybe am being?  For all the lack of plausibility I give their stories, I can see a clear correlation with how those that support them must feel.

It's really weird being on this side of the fence - it's remarkably easy to excuse and accept things from OP's defence that others clearly feel are completely beyond reason or credibility.

He is guilty for sure.   Only thing the judge has to decide is guilty of what?  Stupidity or wilful intent?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 18, 2014, 11:14:34 AM
He is guilty for sure.   Only thing the judge has to decide is guilty of what?  Stupidity or wilful intent?

Reckless homicide or premeditated murder are the choices I would say!

I have tried to watch the trial live a few times but each time soon turn off. The South African 'English' is horrible; the interpreter's voice especially is like nails down a chalk board to me.  The prosecutor is weak and boring and the defense advocate is irritating and pedantic. Add to that a judge who barely seems to be able to string a whole sentence together and has none of the authority and presence you expect from a judge in her courtroom. The final straw is the pointless "m' lady" at the end of every sentence even when 99% aren't even addressed to her!

I will just follow the highlights from now on!

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 18, 2014, 11:53:02 AM
SESSION 1 Monday 17th


SESSION  2 WON'T EMBED
link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovA-k3pO3Dk
SESSION 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-_JCifLpkI
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on March 18, 2014, 01:05:59 PM
Reckless homicide or premeditated murder are the choices I would say!

I have tried to watch the trial live a few times but each time soon turn off. The South African 'English' is horrible; the interpreter's voice especially is like nails down a chalk board to me.  The prosecutor is weak and boring and the defense advocate is irritating and pedantic. Add to that a judge who barely seems to be able to string a whole sentence together and has none of the authority and presence you expect from a judge in her courtroom. The final straw is the pointless "m' lady" at the end of every sentence even when 99% aren't even addressed to her!

I will just follow the highlights from now on!

He might do a deal before the end of the trial, something like reckless endangerment causing death or something equally bereft of any sense of justice for the victim of his excesses.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 18, 2014, 01:43:53 PM
IF he thought there was a burglar in the bathroom and the door was locked from the inside, I assume he shouted at whoever was in there to make them lock the door? IF the door was locked was the burglar only going to steal his hair gel.

IF the door was locked why did he need to shoot anyone? The person inside had made their own prison surely.

My husbands theory is this.

They were aruging and she ran into the toilet to get away from his temper and she locked the door.

He grabbed his cricket bat and tried to break off the lock. She was screaming and shouting at him calling him names perhaps. He lost the plot and went back and got his gun out and in sheer temper shot the door 4 times perhaps not even meaning to hit her.....

When she didnt answer him, he then got the cricket bat and this time the adrenlin and fear of what he might have done, gave him the strength to to break the door open.

The rest is history.

The thing which makes me think this could have happened is IF he thought there was a burglar in the bathroom and he shot through the door, why did he break the door down with the cricket bat? Surely he would have rang the security gate told them what happened, then go see his girlfriend and find her missing then panic. OR did he shoot the door, then go and talk to his girlfriend and find her missing and panic........

Then I think why didnt he check she was safe BEFORE he tackled the burglar.

No matter how i look at it, this was a deliberate killing with bullets meant to kill.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 18, 2014, 02:43:07 PM
He might do a deal before the end of the trial, something like reckless endangerment causing death or something equally bereft of any sense of justice for the victim of his excesses.

Perhaps, but is that really going to help him in terms of sentencing?

The prison time for culpable homicide is 15 years. The gun charges he faces - for which he is certainly guilty - carry custodial sentences of their own.

So aren't we looking at a substantial prison time whatever the deal or verdict may be?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 18, 2014, 03:03:18 PM
I've been forcing myself, since the whole OP case began, to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and I now find myself in a curious place, whereby I am mentally prepared to give his story a degree of plausibility. I'm not saying it's likely, but I do find myself thinking it's plausible.

The really odd thing now is that I find myself wondering if the McCann supporters feel about them the way I do about OP...? Which is that until he's convicted, he's innocent, whereas many on this thread are already talking as though he's guilty and I find that somewhat distasteful. 

I do find myself questioning whether I am right to continue to be quite so prejudiced against the McCanns as I maybe am being?  For all the lack of plausibility I give their stories, I can see a clear correlation with how those that support them must feel.

It's really weird being on this side of the fence - it's remarkably easy to excuse and accept things from OP's defence that others clearly feel are completely beyond reason or credibility.

This is a very honest post, C Edwards, and much appreciated.

I too have found myself making comparisons between these two cases, radically different as they are in most ways.

One similarity however is the question of whether or not the world is being manipulated by the person / people at the centre of the accusations and events (i.e. OP / the McCanns).

For months, I have been challenging posters on the McCann thread to provide an example of a case of a person / people stringing along governments, law enforcement and courts systems, international media, not to mention their own friends and families, all to the tune of millions, because I find it extremely hard to believe the idea that the McCanns, or anyone, would go to such phenomenal efforts to perpetuate a lie, and would be able to tolerate the stresses and strains that that lie placed them under.

IF ( and we have to say ' if ' at this point) Oscar Pistorius is guilty of premeditated murder, he is doing just that, and providing us with a very good example of just what lengths a person will go to to attempt to save their reputation.

If he is indeed found guilty of premeditated murder, he will never accept the verdict - and the fight and the charade, if that is what it is, will go on and on.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 18, 2014, 05:58:55 PM
New evidence in the OP case; there was also damage to the bedroom door and a small amount of blood spatter in the bedroom above the bed head board. Also spots of blood on the duvet! I wonder how the OP team will try and explain that? Police tampering and/or incompetence is my guess!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 19, 2014, 12:05:50 PM
Appears Reeva was stood facing the toilet door when he blasted her.  Just out of curiosity has his defence team brought anything to the table to support his story or is it all going to be down to trying to discredit the cops?  Lets hope the judge isn't taken in by it.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 19, 2014, 12:26:50 PM
Session 1 19th march
session 2

18th session 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc2C1U-s_uY

18th session 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA_pbYMP_DU
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on March 19, 2014, 12:48:25 PM
Head shot was allegedly the last shot so surely she must have screamed after the first and second shots. He had to know it was Reeva. Interesting to learn that he had deleted the history on his ipad and conveniently forgot the four digit password to access his iphone messages. Are these really the actions of an innocent man? Wonder if Apple have managed to get at his messages?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on March 20, 2014, 12:21:01 PM
Head shot was allegedly the last shot so surely she must have screamed after the first and second shots. He had to know it was Reeva. Interesting to learn that he had deleted the history on his ipad and conveniently forgot the four digit password to access his iphone messages. Are these really the actions of an innocent man? Wonder if Apple have managed to get at his messages?

Exactly Anna. He knew damn well who was in there.

Anyway logically if the burglar had LOCKED himself in the bathroom, why did he need to shoot anyway.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 20, 2014, 07:00:06 PM
I do not trust that judge. I think OP is going to get a compromise decision .... guilty of firearms offenses and some sort of negligent homicide verdict for the murder. 5 years in prison is my guess.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 21, 2014, 03:28:39 AM
Just want to thank Anna for posting the video diaries of the trial.   8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 21, 2014, 08:57:01 PM
Unless the prosecution can prove that OP intended to kill HER (Reeva), i.e. that there was an argument and he went after her specifically  etc. (which I'm not sure they have conclusively proved..... YET), what distinguishes OP's case from that of Rudi Visagie? who killed his daughter. In that case there was absolutely no threat or danger, as the car was being driven away from the property.  A court decided not prosecute him. Not saying that OP shouldn't be convicted of, at the very least, culpable homicide, but it's not easy to determine how this will be approached by the judge. I think he has probably lied his ar#e off, but if this is not proven beyond reasonable doubt, if the judge decides she has no option but to conclude he did think it was a burglar, is he then just like Visagie? (whether she thinks he lied or not will possibly be irrelevant unless it has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he knew it wasReeva and not a burglar).

I have found this case facinating for lots of reasons.... first televised trial in SA, differences in their legal system, no jury, the fact that the defendant can sit there and text on his phone in the dock! etc.etc. but it does upset me that the victim appears forgotten in all this   8(8-)) This must have been a truly terrifying experience for her and my heart goes out to her family. I absolutely commend them for their dignity during what must be an excrutiating process for them.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 22, 2014, 12:32:09 AM
Unless the prosecution can prove that OP intended to kill HER (Reeva), i.e. that there was an argument and he went after her specifically  etc. (which I'm not sure they have conclusively proved..... YET), what distinguishes OP's case from that of Rudi Visagie? who killed his daughter. In that case there was absolutely no threat or danger, as the car was being driven away from the property.  A court decided not prosecute him. Not saying that OP shouldn't be convicted of, at the very least, culpable homicide, but it's not easy to determine how this will be approached by the judge. I think he has probably lied his ar#e off, but if this is not proven beyond reasonable doubt, if the judge decides she has no option but to conclude he did think it was a burglar, is he then just like Visagie? (whether she thinks he lied or not will possibly be irrelevant unless it has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he knew it wasReeva and not a burglar).

I have found this case facinating for lots of reasons.... first televised trial in SA, differences in their legal system, no jury, the fact that the defendant can sit there and text on his phone in the dock! etc.etc. but it does upset me that the victim appears forgotten in all this   8(8-)) This must have been a truly terrifying experience for her and my heart goes out to her family. I absolutely commend them for their dignity during what must be an excrutiating process for them.

I don't know a lot about the Visagie case, but wasn't the reason that the judge decided that there was to be no custodial sentence because, as a father, the loss of Visagie's daughter was punishment enough?

I understand that optimists in 'team Pistorius' have cited this case, but can the loss of a child really be compared to Pistorius' loss of his girlfriend of three months - a relationship he may or may not have been taking seriously?



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 22, 2014, 12:45:15 AM
I do not trust that judge. I think OP is going to get a compromise decision .... guilty of firearms offenses and some sort of negligent homicide verdict for the murder. 5 years in prison is my guess.

It is poetic justice enough, so far, that Pistorius' entire earthly fate currently rests in the hands of a black female judge.

All he can do is read from his biblical commentary book, as he has been doing in the dock.

Personally I am sitting back and enjoying that situation while it lasts!

As for her verdict, doesn't the fact that she gave a rapist a sentence of more than two hundred years (for 'only' two instances of rape) give us some cause for optimism?

The eyes of the world are upon the new South Africa and its ability to be fair, so could one even go as far as to say that it was because of this judge's track record of being hard on perpetrators of domestic violence ( which includes the perpetrator of those rapes, who committed the crimes indoors) that she was chosen to adjudicate here?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 22, 2014, 01:23:41 PM
I must say very baffled about this case. I'm trying to keep an open mind and considering all evidence. He has pulled a gun before it seems and could maybe considered as something of a hot-head but does that make him guilty of a pre-meditated murder? Plus has he lied about what time they went to bed as the evidence says that Reeva last ate around 1am although she might have got up for a snack early morning.

Thanks to Anna for posting videos, will comtinue to watch this case with interest.

Yes, that 1am meal throws out Oscar's whole timeline of events (unless, as you say, she got up for a snack without him noticing).
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 22, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
I must say very baffled about this case. I'm trying to keep an open mind and considering all evidence. He has pulled a gun before it seems and could maybe considered as something of a hot-head but does that make him guilty of a pre-meditated murder? Plus has he lied about what time they went to bed as the evidence says that Reeva last ate around 1am although she might have got up for a snack early morning.

Thanks to Anna for posting videos, will comtinue to watch this case with interest.

You are all very welcome  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 22, 2014, 02:34:17 PM
She's lucky she got away.

She certainly was a beautiful young woman, who died in the cruellest way. She will live on for some in her photos.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 22, 2014, 04:19:59 PM
Lets hope justice prevails in this case and Pistorius gets his just desserts.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 22, 2014, 04:31:12 PM
First point I want to make is that the judge will not make the decision on her own and I ain't talking about her two helpers.  As with most cases being considered by a single judge she will be taking advice from behind the scenes from both fellow judges and others.

Whatever happened that fateful night happened in a moment of madness.  Something occurred to light the fuse which ended with Reeva murdered in a hail of bullets but I fear we will never know the truth of it.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 22, 2014, 04:34:58 PM
Lets hope justice prevails in this case and Pistorius gets his just desserts.

Let's hope so John. In my opinion he should spend many decades in prison.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 24, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
Phone evidence today very telling.... and it is bound to be worse for him tomorrow. Classic narcisist I would say.

I know he probably thinks that he really had little to lose by pleading NG to premeditation, if he doesnt want to be in prison until he's well into in middle age that is.....but how he can sit there alongside her family and make up the crap that he has is beyond me. Also, if the judge does find him guilty,  for pleading not guilty and putting her family through this terrible ordeal twice over, she is likely to throw the key away.

I know it's always complicated, but, in this day and age, why do women put uo with men like this?  8(8-)) The signs are nearly always there.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 24, 2014, 01:32:54 PM
1.
 
2.
3.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 24, 2014, 02:19:18 PM
Phone evidence today very telling.... and it is bound to be worse for him tomorrow. Classic narcisist I would say.

I know he probably thinks that he really had little to lose by pleading NG to premeditation, if he doesnt want to be in prison until he's well into in middle age that is.....but how he can sit there alongside her family and make up the crap that he has is beyond me. Also, if the judge does find him guilty,  for pleading not guilty and putting her family through this terrible ordeal twice over, she is likely to throw the key away.

I know it's always complicated, but, in this day and age, why do women put uo with men like this?  8(8-)) The signs are nearly always there.

No wonder OP 'forgot' the code to open his phone! Let's hope the judge does the right thing; no excuses for this animal!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 24, 2014, 02:55:18 PM
In the request to adjourn today, Nel said he wanted to put foward/explain some technical data whilst still with the same witness. Reckon this is going to be evidence of OP having tried to wipe his history on his phones or Ipads? Of course, in comms forensics, it is very difficult to do this, as the expert software can also retrieve deleted history. There may also be more damaging whatsapp texts between them for the night in question, but if so, I think he asked for the adjournment there because he wants them all to be heard together for greatest impact.

Nel obviously and sensibly saved the most compelling testimony until last, so we could have another 3 witnesses with powerful evidence to come, as he said "another 4 to 5 witnesses" and we've had 2 so far today. Mind you, how the hell can they wrap up the prosection by Thursday, as Nel said, with the sort of nit picking pointless cross examination that goes on forever like we had from Oldwage today? Notice how the Judge was more vocal today? I think she prefers to not interupt proceedings unless she absolutely has to, to preserve continuity etc, but Olwadge seemed to p*ss her off today!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 24, 2014, 05:05:04 PM
It was suggested after the murder that Reeva had already put up with Pistorius' tantrums.  Why do women stay with these abusers, is it because they believe they can change them? 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on March 24, 2014, 07:10:37 PM
It was suggested after the murder that Reeva had already put up with Pistorius' tantrums.  Why do women stay with these abusers, is it because they believe they can change them?

I think Reeva was about to leave him - and that is what got her killed. So with this I answer your question in two ways:
1. Reeva was probably not a woman who would stay with an abuser, remember, their relationship was quite new, and he wouldn´t have shown her the abusive side of himself initially.
2. I think that many women stay with men like that out of fear - some get killed when they want to leave, so they have good reason to be afraid!
Also want to add that many of the women who stay in abusive relationships were abused as children. This is the norm for them, it is very tragic, but all studies show this.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 24, 2014, 08:10:51 PM
I am struck by what a classy and intelligent woman Reeva seems to have been. I too think she wasn't going to put up with OP's childish tantrums and moods and standing up to him and/or trying to leave him is what got her murdered in a blind fury by OP.

I believe OP is actually heartbroken and mortified by his own actions but that's no excuse. His sentence should be measured in decades!

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on March 24, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
The texts prove OP is a jealous,possessive control freak with a nasty temper. Poor Reeva,how terrified she must have been that night. Wonder if her ex,Warren Lahoud will be called to testify? He stated last year that during the five years he was dating Reeva that he doesn't ever remember her locking the bathroom door.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 24, 2014, 11:59:43 PM
Excellent posts guys and gals   8@??)(

Pistorius is guilty as hell, all they need decide is an appropriate sentence.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on March 25, 2014, 01:50:24 PM
1.
2. having problems right now
3.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 25, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
Shame about today being the conclusion of the prosecution's case and it having to go out on Col cricket bat, as (with respect) he isn't the greatest/ most convincing orator is he?

I have no experience of South African criminal law but I am rather glad that this is going to be a judges decision. For anyone who is interested, this is quite a good short article http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/oscar-pistorius-criminal-law-101 (http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/oscar-pistorius-criminal-law-101). I think that firing 4 black talons at close range through a door into a tiny room where any occupant could never avoid the bullets, shows that OP foresaw that any occupant would likely be killed, irrespective of who they were. Looking at his 'intruder' defence, I believe his actions unreasonable and therefore unlawful, given that his life wasn't immediately in danger.  He could have grabbed his girlfriend (if he did believe she was still in bed) and got out of the house setting off the panic alarm, firing his gun back only if the intruder pursued them.

So, I personally think that most of the defence evidence we are going to be subjected to (god, can you imagine it?!) is going to be irrelevant.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 25, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
The prosecution went out with a whimper and overall was a dull damp squib! Not impressed
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on March 25, 2014, 08:01:33 PM
Yes,the end of the prosecutions case was an anti climax wasn't it. But they have managed to show OP for what he is,have shown that he lied when he said they went to bed at 10pm and have neighbours supporting their case that there was an argument and also that Reeva did scream after the first shot. Hopefully when OP takes the stand Nel will tie him in knots!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 25, 2014, 08:23:16 PM
Yes,the end of the prosecutions case was an anti climax wasn't it. But they have managed to show OP for what he is,have shown that he lied when he said they went to bed at 10pm and have neighbours supporting their case that there was an argument and also that Reeva did scream after the first shot. Hopefully when OP takes the stand Nel will tie him in knots!

Do you think Nel is keeping his powder dry then? I fear he is ineffectual weak and that OP will handle his cross examination with ease and a 1000 fawning m' lady's! I hope I am wrong!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 25, 2014, 09:05:49 PM
Nel has had some very high profile cases and has not shirked from prosecuting really difficult cases, like the corrupt police chief Selebi, where I am sure he had to contend with corrupt witnesses and all sorts of intimidation etc. He's also beat Roux several times before. Don't write him off, as he's an accomplished prosecutor. He's been introducing much evidence quietly and without the drama of Roux in this case, for no other reason than to give him ammunition to fire at OP in cross examination. I wouldn't underestimate the judge either. She has to deliver a lengthy judgement where she must explain the weight given to each witness testimony and other evidence and why, which is why she writes so much! She has previously shown little mercy to violent men. The fact that the Judge could retire in a good deal of luxury with her arthiritis at her age means she sits on that bench for the right reasons, and the fact that she has much younger assessors to help her means none of the 'modern/techie' evidence will be lost on her. Also Nel sits there quietly with his female assistant during proceedings whereas conversely, Roux and Oldwadge have sat there glaring at each witness, often smirking with eachother as if nothing can touch them.... well, I guess Roux at $6000 a day doesn't give a sh&t!! (Oldwadge is an ex police officer pre 2000, so we all know what he is likely to have got up to in his previous career and he's likely tarring currently serving police officers with his own brush!).

I'll get off me soap box now! Interesting case though, although it breaks my heart to see RS's mother have to sit through the trial, but she has done so with such dignity.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 25, 2014, 11:21:53 PM
Excellent analysis as always Amazon.

I hope you're right about Nel and the judge and their prior experience you quoted does bode well for justice for Reeva! I would be much more confident in the judge handing out the right sentence to OP if I actually heard her finish a sentence of her own! She seems to me to have no command of her courtroom and very little of the English language.

I hope I will be retracting all my comments when she gives a concise and devastating reasoning for sentencing Oscar to life for premeditated murder. 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 27, 2014, 01:12:04 AM
I think Reeva was about to leave him - and that is what got her killed. So with this I answer your question in two ways:
1. Reeva was probably not a woman who would stay with an abuser, remember, their relationship was quite new, and he wouldn´t have shown her the abusive side of himself initially.
2. I think that many women stay with men like that out of fear - some get killed when they want to leave, so they have good reason to be afraid!
Also want to add that many of the women who stay in abusive relationships were abused as children. This is the norm for them, it is very tragic, but all studies show this.

Pistorius is a textbook abuser, and I was very upset to see Roux and Oldwage both getting away with making such a big song and dance about the fact that 90% of the messages between the couple were 'loving and normal'.

The whole point about an abuser is that he will seem perfectly normal - and probably also very charming - at least 90% of the time. This is another reason why women stick with such men. They convince themselves that because he is so great most of the time, he must be a good person with only a few minor flaws to tolerate.

But in reality,  this 90% appearance of normality - which also serves to shield the abuse from the outside world, as people find it hard to believe that a charming person could be making his loved one suffer, therefore making the one who is being abused fearful of reporting it lest she not be believed thus perpetuating the situation - is an essential part of the sickness.

This topic is a relatively new area of research, but these, according to most analyses of such behaviour, are the facts, and it is sad and somewhat concerning that Roux and his co-advocate were not brought up on the way they handled the situation.

If Roux had begun talking nonsense about a forensic matter, such as ballistics or DNA, he would be sure to have been tackled vigorously and corrected.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 27, 2014, 01:28:31 AM
Shame about today being the conclusion of the prosecution's case and it having to go out on Col cricket bat, as (with respect) he isn't the greatest/ most convincing orator is he?

I have no experience of South African criminal law but I am rather glad that this is going to be a judges decision. For anyone who is interested, this is quite a good short article http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/oscar-pistorius-criminal-law-101 (http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/oscar-pistorius-criminal-law-101). I think that firing 4 black talons at close range through a door into a tiny room where any occupant could never avoid the bullets, shows that OP foresaw that any occupant would likely be killed, irrespective of who they were. Looking at his 'intruder' defence, I believe his actions unreasonable and therefore unlawful, given that his life wasn't immediately in danger.  He could have grabbed his girlfriend (if he did believe she was still in bed) and got out of the house setting off the panic alarm, firing his gun back only if the intruder pursued them.

So, I personally think that most of the defence evidence we are going to be subjected to (god, can you imagine it?!) is going to be irrelevant.

Thanks for that good link, Amazon. Let's hope that analysis bears out in reality. I am a bit nervous, like Tim, about the way things will be handled. A person can have a watertight case in theory but things can still go very wrong at court.

Best witness was definitely the ballistics expert, Colonel Mangena. Very eloquent and clear, especially considering English was probably his third language. He also stood his ground against Roux's shenanigans very strongly, whilst still maintaining a respect for the court. All whilst wearing a very nice suit  8((()*/

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 27, 2014, 10:26:55 AM
Thanks for that good link, Amazon. Let's hope that analysis bears out in reality. I am a bit nervous, like Tim, about the way things will be handled. A person can have a watertight case in theory but things can still go very wrong at court.

Best witness was definitely the ballistics expert, Colonel Mangena. Very eloquent and clear, especially considering English was probably his third language. He also stood his ground against Roux's shenanigans very strongly, whilst still maintaining a respect for the court. All whilst wearing a very nice suit  8((()*/

At least there is no jury in this case. I could easily imagine a female juror allowing her liking for Oscar to cloud her judgement. Or a male juror being a sports fan and admiring Oscar. Or either sex seeking their 15 minutes of fame by being the stand out juror who saved OP from a life in prison.

Bamber so nearly got away with murder at trial and the whole world knows O J Simpson is guilty. Although I am not impressed by the OP trial judge so far, I am still glad a single trained, legal professional is judging the case. I cannot see how she can possibly ignore the very credible witnesses who all heard female screaming before the shots. If there was such screaming before the shots then surely OP is guilty of premeditated murder.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 27, 2014, 05:11:06 PM
You can be sure she isn't judging this case alone Tim.  There will be other judges counselling her.  You probably agree that the SA justice system really has to get this one right and the next one too which will be Dewani.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 27, 2014, 06:44:17 PM
Oscar P. is expected to take the dock tomorrow morning (fri. 28th). I am looking foward to his cross; I hope Nel is up to the task. I would start with the firearms charges OP has also pleaded not guilty to; expose OP as an obvious liar about his reckless use of a handgun, twice. Then hit him hard about the murder of Reeva.

It should be fascinating.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 28, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
Grrrr! Very long day at work, get home, slip into PJs, open a bottle of sauvignon and you tube..... to find that case adjourned for over a week!! (of course I hope the assessor is okay and it's nothing serious). Now he has an extra week with the coach to perfect his story  8()(((@#
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 28, 2014, 09:52:11 PM
Oscar P. is expected to take the dock tomorrow morning (fri. 28th). I am looking foward to his cross; I hope Nel is up to the task. I would start with the firearms charges OP has also pleaded not guilty to; expose OP as an obvious liar about his reckless use of a handgun, twice. Then hit him hard about the murder of Reeva.

It should be fascinating.

The crux of this case (i.e. the issue of premeditation to get the extra whallop on the sentence) is all about OP's mindset at the time - i.e. his fear of intruders, fear for his life/threat against him at the time, his vulnerability because of disability etc. If he didn't testify, the court would have to judge the available evidence of his mindset at the time of the murder (i.e. not much if he doesn't tell them) versus what a reasonable person is his position would fear, given the circumstances. If he does testify - and he will for that reason,  he will focus on all that stuff, but he also has to destroy any evidence that he knew it was her - i.e. the screams that were likely, given the state evidence of the sequence of the shots and witnesses to the screams - which is why they are trying to assert that the first shot was to the head and that the witnesses heard the sounds of the cricket bat on the door. I'm not sure that his gun ho attitude comes into it really. It is all about what happened that night and the circumstances that lead up to it.

What I really want to know is
1) why OP went back upstairs whilst Stipp was attending to Reeva and what he did whilst he was up there - the defence allege contamination/ tampering by police of the crime scene, but what did OP do whilst he was up there? a little tampering of his own no doubt. Also, why was Reeva surrounded by plastic bin liners? Who the hell would fetch bin liners in that situation?
2) whats his excuse for taking a phone away from the scene and what did he do with it before the defence team handed it over.
3) who the hell would think to call their lawyer within literally minutes of these circumstances?

Oh gawd, I could go on forever with these!!

Nel has ensured he has put a lot before the court without dwelling on it during the prosecution phase, so he's going to bring much more into play during the defence phase. He also didn't call OP's mate Sander, as he's much more useful to trip up in cross examination for the defence than he would ever be as a hostile prosecution witness. Remember this when you are wondering why Nel didn't call certain witnesses.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 28, 2014, 10:53:36 PM
I know, I cleared my schedule all day to watch the case live and  8()(((@#. What a bummer and why the hell isn't one of the court officials designated as replacement assessor in the event one of them is taken ill!

Amazon did you hear Dr. Stipp and wife testify that within an hour of returning to bed after trying to save Reeva's life, the security gate called to inform them Oscar's lawyers want to speak to them? This was at like 5.20am .... Reeva would still have been warm and Oscar is already setting up his story!  Hardly the actions of a man who has just made a tragic mistake as he will have us believe!

I actually think Oscar's gung ho attitude to guns is highly relevant. His ex-girlfriend's testimony about the incident a car was following them and he stopped his car and approached the car behind raising his gun to the window is highly indicative of his gun first attitude. This car could have been press or a fan but OP went str8 for his gun!

I didn't know about the bin liners! That seems strange! As does carrying Reeva down to the front door! I wonder if OP's first instinct was to get rid of the body but he was thwarted by security and Dr. Stipp turning up?

10 days to wait now! Ggggrrrrr. With a bit of luck Shrien Dewani will be appearing in a South African court before OP's next visit. I really hope they televise that trial too ..... if it ever happens!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 29, 2014, 01:55:38 PM
Not sure about the pre meditated aspect in the Pistorius case.  From the evidence he appears to be hot headed and tended to outbursts of rage.  Probably an argument which went too far and as someone already suggested maybe she was for walking and just knew too much about him.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 29, 2014, 04:55:40 PM
Not sure about the pre meditated aspect in the Pistorius case.  From the evidence he appears to be hot headed and tended to outbursts of rage.  Probably an argument which went too far and as someone already suggested maybe she was for walking and just knew too much about him.

Surely shooting someone who is hiding from you through a locked door, has to be premeditated. Sure it was an outburst of rage but going to get the gun then firing 4 times is absolutely deliberate and premeditated. It does not have to be a long standing plan to be premeditated.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on March 29, 2014, 07:14:39 PM
Yes Tim, but going back to my previous post, this case is all going to be about OP's belief at the time, which he will argue made him act in putative self defence. As per the link I posted

"Where an accused is found to have genuinely believed that his life was in danger and that he was using reasonable means to avert an attack on himself or his property, he may escape conviction for murder on the grounds that he lacked the requisite intention.

As intention is tested subjectively, the pivotal question would be what the actual state of mind of the accused was at the time when he killed the victim. If an accused genuinely but mistakenly believed that an attack was imminent or that his life was in danger, the court will find that he lacked the intention to be convicted of murder".

So, OP has to prove two big things to get to anywhere near a culpable homicide decision (which is his best case scenario as he admits to firing the shots) and therefore a sentence at the discretion of the judge:

1) that he had the requisite genuine belief - which is where all the "he's vulnerable because of disability, has had death threats, has a fear of crime, has been a victim of crime numerous times before yadda, yadda"...AND
2) because of 1) he has to prove a genuine belief that the person in the toilet was an intruder when he fired, i.e. that he didn't know it was Reeva, which is why the defence are trying to assert that the first shot was to the head and there could be no screaming, rubbishing the witnesses who testified re screaming etc. (if this were true, the fact that he was happy to fire 4 black talons into some poor probably black guy gives cause for a different debate altogether)

The judge has already intimated that the state has made a case to answer for the offence charged, i.e premeditated murder. Remember when Nel asked for an adjournment beacause of the public holidays? She said then that she thought his request reasonable because the state had made a case. Roux never asked for the case to be thrown out when the prosecution rested, which is common in SA, so he obviously realised that too. So, OP has to go for the putative self defence as his only escape, so he has to testify, as the test is subjective and if he doesn't, the court will just infer his state of mind from all the other evidence (most of which is negative to him). He wants to be a Rudi Visage and get away with it completely,  and is peddling his disability, 'love' of Reeva, vomitting and bible reading etc..to overcome all the other negative stuff i.e. gun ho attitude, text messages indicating all not well, general arrogance....

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on March 29, 2014, 10:44:17 PM
Just as you mention Bible reading it reminded me of a comment on Sky News today when Alex Crawford mentioned that Pistorius and his sister are reading religious books in court.  Are they trying to impress the audience or seek eternal salvation?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 30, 2014, 02:07:36 AM
The 'Oscar screams like a woman' testimony should be interesting! I will be very surprised if the judge gives it an ounce of credence!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 30, 2014, 02:56:45 PM
Bin liners were used to staunch blood flow, apparently.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 30, 2014, 03:30:57 PM
I wonder if some of the strange facts of the case will ever be explained?

* Why was there blood splatter over the headboard of the bed?
* Blood spots on the duvet?
* Damage to the bedroom door?
* How come the very credible Doctor and his wife both testified to hearing two lots of three shots?

I am sure there are many more unanswered questions.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 30, 2014, 03:41:33 PM
The phone texts repeated again today on Sky News reveal an insecure individual who was extremely jealous of Reeva and her interactions with others.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on March 30, 2014, 04:19:57 PM
Surely shooting someone who is hiding from you through a locked door, has to be premeditated. Sure it was an outburst of rage but going to get the gun then firing 4 times is absolutely deliberate and premeditated. It does not have to be a long standing plan to be premeditated.

I agree, the fourth and last shot to the head was the one that killed Reeva. He would have heard her scream after the first shot, I believe it was to her hip. He could have stopped right there, and Reeva could have lived. He didn´t. He CHOSE to shoot three more times. That was to deliberately kill her = premeditated murder.
Imagine the torture, fright and despair she must have gone through, imagine the screams of panic and pain, which Oscar HEARD. Yet there was no mercy, he must be punished accordingly.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on March 31, 2014, 09:52:34 AM
I agree, the fourth and last shot to the head was the one that killed Reeva. He would have heard her scream after the first shot, I believe it was to her hip. He could have stopped right there, and Reeva could have lived. He didn´t. He CHOSE to shoot three more times. That was to deliberately kill her = premeditated murder.
Imagine the torture, fright and despair she must have gone through, imagine the screams of panic and pain, which Oscar HEARD. Yet there was no mercy, he must be punished accordingly.

You might find this piece on premeditated murder in South Africa of interest.

(http://i.imgur.com/ADmGUT0.png?1)

www.books.google.co.uk/books?id=ggxAhLBuOegC&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=premeditated+murder+laws+in+south+africa&source=bl&ots=0Y3UrQOalm&sig=BN0vGlX0WTJd6QEtMMbKMTzlmJs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hSo5U4-tEamN7QbGk4GgCg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=premeditated%20murder%20laws%20in%20south%20africa&f=false
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 31, 2014, 03:47:33 PM
Yes Tim, but going back to my previous post, this case is all going to be about OP's belief at the time, which he will argue made him act in putative self defence. As per the link I posted

"Where an accused is found to have genuinely believed that his life was in danger and that he was using reasonable means to avert an attack on himself or his property, he may escape conviction for murder on the grounds that he lacked the requisite intention.

As intention is tested subjectively, the pivotal question would be what the actual state of mind of the accused was at the time when he killed the victim. If an accused genuinely but mistakenly believed that an attack was imminent or that his life was in danger, the court will find that he lacked the intention to be convicted of murder".

So, OP has to prove two big things to get to anywhere near a culpable homicide decision (which is his best case scenario as he admits to firing the shots) and therefore a sentence at the discretion of the judge:

1) that he had the requisite genuine belief - which is where all the "he's vulnerable because of disability, has had death threats, has a fear of crime, has been a victim of crime numerous times before yadda, yadda"...AND
2) because of 1) he has to prove a genuine belief that the person in the toilet was an intruder when he fired, i.e. that he didn't know it was Reeva, which is why the defence are trying to assert that the first shot was to the head and there could be no screaming, rubbishing the witnesses who testified re screaming etc. (if this were true, the fact that he was happy to fire 4 black talons into some poor probably black guy gives cause for a different debate altogether)

The judge has already intimated that the state has made a case to answer for the offence charged, i.e premeditated murder. Remember when Nel asked for an adjournment beacause of the public holidays? She said then that she thought his request reasonable because the state had made a case. Roux never asked for the case to be thrown out when the prosecution rested, which is common in SA, so he obviously realised that too. So, OP has to go for the putative self defence as his only escape, so he has to testify, as the test is subjective and if he doesn't, the court will just infer his state of mind from all the other evidence (most of which is negative to him). He wants to be a Rudi Visage and get away with it completely,  and is peddling his disability, 'love' of Reeva, vomitting and bible reading etc..to overcome all the other negative stuff i.e. gun ho attitude, text messages indicating all not well, general arrogance....

Yes, but doesn't the fact that he fired illegally - i.e. contrary to SA laws governing the use of a firearm in self defense - and knew that he was firing illegally (as demonstrated by the prosecution in court showing copies of the written test he took for a firearm license) undermine all that?

In other words, provision in SA law for firing at an unknown target in self defense ( and other criteria also ignored that night by OP) does not exist, so how could he argue, legally speaking, that that was what he was doing?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on March 31, 2014, 03:49:48 PM
The 'Oscar screams like a woman' testimony should be interesting! I will be very surprised if the judge gives it an ounce of credence!

Perhaps Advocate Nel will call upon him to give a demonstration.

Presumably Barry Roux, having been the one to come up with the idea, will be happy to have his client oblige.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on March 31, 2014, 06:48:30 PM
Perhaps Advocate Nel will call upon him to give a demonstration.

Presumably Barry Roux, having been the one to come up with the idea, will be happy to have his client oblige.

The testimony of Mrs, Stipp in particular is very important on this point! She heard a "woman's screams" then heard a "man screaming" intermingled with the woman's. I wonder how Roux will try and explain that!

I think the defense will be quite annoying. Oscar will drip treacle every time he speaks to 'm' lady' and will be hamming up his distress at every turn, with Roux spoon feeding the Oscar show. I really hope Nel is up to his job. I would love to see Juan Martinez from the Jodi Ariaz prosecution cross examine OP!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lindyhop on March 31, 2014, 09:24:10 PM
Bin liners were used to staunch blood flow, apparently.

Towels would have been more appropriate here... binliners are used to throw things away, so I'm leaning towards him trying to dispose of her body in panic, then realising he couldn't and using the binliners as towels.

Or maybe he was trying to protect his expensive furniture.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 07, 2014, 11:28:27 AM
Oscar deserves an Oscar!
His "whoe is me" act is vomit inducing!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 07, 2014, 01:59:25 PM
Poor Oscar is exhausted!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 07, 2014, 02:16:15 PM
Is Oscar learning from Shrien Dewani? Trying to get off a blatant murder charge by feigning mental anguish!

Sickening!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 07, 2014, 07:05:32 PM
7th April 2014
1.

2.

3.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 07, 2014, 07:23:37 PM
What a pathetic, sickening, monotone sob story from Pistorius this afternoon !  8)><(

Poor man... he's totally exhausted after having had only ten days rest from court !  ?8)@)-)

Thanks for the vids, Anna. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 07, 2014, 07:30:14 PM
What a pathetic, sickening, monotone sob story from Pistorius this afternoon !  8)><(

Poor man... he's totally exhausted after having had only ten days rest from court !  ?8)@)-)

Thanks for the vids, Anna. 8((()*/

My pleasure  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 07, 2014, 07:47:33 PM
Oscar deserves an Oscar!
His "whoe is me" act is vomit inducing!

Exactly my thoughts when I watched Oscar Pretorius giving evidence today. 
It really was an extraordinary performance.  I wonder what influence it will have on the judge's reasoning, she certainly listened carefully enough.
I didn't see it, but according to a couple of commentators the prosecutor demolished the testimony of the pathologist called by the defence.  It should be interesting to see what tack he takes with the defendant.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 07, 2014, 08:43:09 PM
Exactly my thoughts when I watched Oscar Pretorius giving evidence today. 
It really was an extraordinary performance.  I wonder what influence it will have on the judge's reasoning, she certainly listened carefully enough.
I didn't see it, but according to a couple of commentators the prosecutor demolished the testimony of the pathologist called by the defence.  It should be interesting to see what tack he takes with the defendant.

I agree the prosecutor ripped into the defence pathologist! I was impressed .... Nel has been keeping his powder dry!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on April 07, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
I told you not to underestimate Nel, didn't I?

Also, Judge Masipa usually writes everything down, even with her arthritic hands. Well, during OP's performance today she put her pen down, folded her arms and wrote nothing after a while, so she obviously isn't intending to recall much of what was said! As I said before, I think she likes to let the proceedings flow without interupting unless she has to. She's giving him a fair crack at the wheel, so any grounds for appeal re the proceedings themselves will be limited.

To just recap on the legal niceties.... In his 'apology' today, OP virtually admitted the killing and the defence have not indicated that this will be contested. With the fact he fired 4 times with lethal ammo into a confined space when he thought 'someone'was behind the door, we can say with some degree of certainty that murder has been proven. Therefore, it's down to putative self defence - i.e. OP must adduce 'sufficient' evidence to rely on self defence and then the prosecution must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that OP didn't act in self defence, so Nel still has it all to do.

For me it seems the crucial issues will be
1) the screaming - if she screamed he would know it was her and therefore the intruder theory is out the window
2) timing - if the first set of 'bangs' was the shots at around 3.00am, what the hell was he doing for 15 minutes before he called for assistance... also, how did Stander (and daughter) arrive within like 2 mins? Who can wake up,  dress and get over there that quick?
3) what was he up to when he went upstairs after Dr Stipp and what happened re that phone
4) what was the internet activity on his phone before the incident? Might be nothing but its not been made clear yet.

There is more but these just for starters!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 07, 2014, 11:32:59 PM
You did tell us not to underestimate Nel, Amazon and from his brief attack on the pathologist today you look to be spot on.

My theory is that Oscar is playing the anguish card so he can not only garner sympathy while still presenting his full evidence in chief with Roux but he is going to break down as soon as Nel hits him with the tough questions and he will be unable to be cross examined! No doubt his team will have doctors on hand to confirm OP's complete mental breakdown!

I hope you're right about the judge too Amazon; perhaps still waters run deep with her and she has a devastating summing up planned! At this point though, I remain to be convinced!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on April 08, 2014, 12:12:00 AM
Well, if he is unable to be cross examined then the evidencial burden will change - as far as I can see it, the court will have to consider the actions of an ordinary reasonable person in OP's position rather than use the subjective test of *his* belief at the time (with his obsessive fear or intruders/crime, disability etc.). I would think that firing 4 black talons into a tiny closed toilet knowing, at the very least, that 'someone' was in there would be way beyond what most people would think reasonable, and that most with the same disability would have scarpered dowstairs with girlfriend having pushed the panic alarm - rather than, with so called limited mobility, rushed to the source of the noises not knowing what you might be faced with.

There are some SA cases where defendants have walked that OP will be wanting to align his to though. Rudie Visage is one but there's another strangely similar case where a man shot and killed his pregnant wife in the night thinking she was a burglar in the bathroom. He negotiated a plea bargain to culpable homicide and got a suspended sentence of 8 years. However, he only fired the one shot, when the door began to open, there was no suggestion of screaming or other noises to alert him to the fact that it was his wife and he immediately rushed her to the hospital. Also, a member of her family was consulted and agreed to the plea and sentence, so there are quite important differences. Interesting though.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on April 08, 2014, 12:16:26 PM
What a pathetic, sickening, monotone sob story from Pistorius this afternoon !  8)><(

Poor man... he's totally exhausted after having had only ten days rest from court !  ?8)@)-)

Thanks for the vids, Anna. 8((()*/

scyophantic came to mind. If the Jury fall for it there is no hope. It was VOMIT inducing.

He wanted to keep her safe....FFS, then why not check to see where she was before he blew the toilet door off its hinges. IDIOT.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 08, 2014, 12:24:39 PM
There was a report on Sky News the other day in which a white South African former rugby player shot his daughter dead with a single bullet when she tried to sneak out early one morning.  The man and his wife again claimed they thought it was an intruder.  He was let off by the judge who stated that he had suffered enough.

Could Pistorius' excuse for shooting Reeva be something he gleamed from this earlier case?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 08, 2014, 12:43:40 PM
1.


2.

3.

4.


session 4 added
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 08, 2014, 01:06:12 PM
Does that message come from a woman in love or....... a woman in fear?

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on April 08, 2014, 01:40:36 PM
He murdered her. Without doubt.

Why would she open the bathroom window?

There is no reason for her to do that. In Africa you just dont open windows anyway unless they have mosquito netting over them....no why would she open the window. IF it makes such a loud noise to wake him up?

NOT only that you dont open windows for security reasons. She is not a fool.

IF it was so loud to wake him up then why wouldnt it have woken her up.

Its all bullshit and made up.

He is lying.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on April 08, 2014, 01:47:21 PM
The Rugby player was Rudie Visage, they chose not to prosecute on the basis that he'd suffered enough - not sure that was a sensible decision myself as it has muddied the waters..... who is it okay to kill? mother, daughter, wife, girlfriend? She was also driving away from the house in their car, so there was absolutely no danger to him or his family if it had been a burglar. He may not have shot to kill but IMO it was reckless. I think there should have been a conviction myself, with a suspended sentence, but it may be that murder was actually established on the evidence and if they'd have prosecuted, there would have been a mandatory sentence, so they had to not prosecute to let him go.

The other case was similar to OPs and notice OP introduced new evidence today that he thought the door started to open - just like the other case I quoted above. Big flaw there though, he says he thought the door was starting to open, if so, why did he need to bash the door down and retrieve the key from the floor inside?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 08, 2014, 02:11:06 PM
This Oscar farce is becoming an undignified embarrassment.

His story falls apart because he has to say he was screaming and screaming before he fired the shots to try and tie in with what the neighbours testified they heard. But that makes it ridiculous that he was screaming in the hallway and bathroom entrance and Reeva didn't respond from the toilet literally a few feet away.

I just hope the judge doesn't swallow this boll**ks!

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 08, 2014, 02:20:16 PM
This Oscar farce is becoming an undignified embarrassment.

His story falls apart because he has to say he was screaming and screaming before he fired the shots to try and tie in with what the neighbours testified they heard. But that makes it ridiculous that he was screaming in the hallway and bathroom entrance and Reeva didn't respond from the toilet literally a few feet away.

I just hope the judge doesn't swallow this boll**ks!

He is the defence witness so what can they do if he can't continue?  They can't really carry on without him at this stage.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 08, 2014, 02:35:05 PM
He is the defence witness so what can they do if he can't continue?  They can't really carry on without him at this stage.


It is getting rather ridiculous as is his sob story.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 08, 2014, 02:48:49 PM
Adjourned until tomorrow. Will he be too sick tomorrow?????

Session 4 added below with 1.2 and 3
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on April 08, 2014, 03:06:38 PM
They can conclude without him, if he fails to testify completely, i.e. give his testimony and permit cross examination on it, then his 'self defence' test becomes what a reasonable person would have believed and how they would have acted in his circumstances and not what OP actually believed and how he did act. Much easier case for Nel then.

I noticed a few anomolies amongst the blubbering...

he said he pushed the toilet door - it opens outwards
he said he picked up Reeva's jeans to cover the LED light in bedroom - how comes these ended up on the lawn outside then?
he started to say he put his gun BY the bed and changed it to under the bed
he said he heard what he believed was the door opening - that hasn't been put forward before and not in his statements, neither has the toilet door slamming
he can remember minutiae of detail but cant remember what they were watching on tv that night or, more importantly, whether he turned the bathroom light on during the events or how long he was with Reeva after he found her, whilst crying and stuff (well he does have over 15 minutes to explain away)
he said he was yelling and screaming on the way to the bathroom with the gun yet he stopped screaming when he got there as he didn't want to give his location away - we're talking a few feet here!!
his general blame game - blames his mates for the gun incident, effectively blamed Reeva for not shutting the balcony doors etc. blames others and things for his bad behaviour in the whats app messages (speaks narcissistic to me)

My feed went down when the IPad was discussed re porngate, did OP admit to the pornsite?

The lack of questions and prompting by Roux shows that OP has rehearsed the story to the nth degree. Nothing wrong with that I guess, but when it looks this rehearsed, it lacks credibility as a true account in my experience. OP is including all the relevant points without Roux's help, e.g. saying when he has or hasn't got his prosthetics on, how many times he bashed the door etc. etc.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Amazon on April 08, 2014, 03:36:49 PM
Looks at Masipa's face after OPs breakdown at 16.42 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g) she plonks her pen down and her face says it all. She adjourned immediately without consulting anyone.

She doesn't look to me like she is going to allow this situation to continue.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 08, 2014, 05:33:21 PM
Does that message come from a woman in love or....... a woman in fear?


IMO asking OP to read out this seriously damaging message from Reeva is a cynical tactic by the defence to mitigate the impact of its introduction by the prosecution. 
Very clever, but possibly not clever enough to fool the judge.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 08, 2014, 05:48:56 PM
IMO asking OP to read out this seriously damaging message from Reeva is a cynical tactic by the defence to mitigate the impact of its introduction by the prosecution. 
Very clever, but possibly not clever enough to fool the judge.

I very much agree. I don't think she is going to be an easy pushover.

Todays events in print and house layout
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26939443
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Lindyhop on April 08, 2014, 08:40:34 PM
The clincher for me here is the fact that after the first shot, he allegedly did not realise it was Reeva behind the door and fired more shots. Did she not scream? She would have known it was him as he claims he shouted loudly beforehand. How could she have just sat there quietly?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 08, 2014, 09:17:51 PM
The clincher for me here is the fact that after the fist shot, he allegedly did not realise it was Reeva behind the door and fired more shots. Did she not scream? She would have known it was him as he claims he shouted loudly beforehand. How could she have just sat there quietly?
Just another good point that screams guilt. I have yet to hear or read of anyone who thinks OP's story is anything but totally ridiculous. I guess this is the best he could do to explain away the murder of Reeva!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 08, 2014, 10:06:15 PM
Quick roundups of weeks in case you missed a bit

Week 1 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26481420
Week 2 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26567619
Week 3 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26675384
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 09, 2014, 11:04:11 AM
Thanks for all your posts Anna; very helpful.

Very interesting today. Nel has just opened up on Oscar and I like his initial broadside, getting Oscar to admit he killed Reeva and is responsible for her death. Being a narcissist, I think Oscar's natural reaction will be to stand up to Nel. Should be fascinating!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 09, 2014, 01:17:44 PM
Thanks for all your posts Anna; very helpful.

Very interesting today. Nel has just opened up on Oscar and I like his initial broadside, getting Oscar to admit he killed Reeva and is responsible for her death. Being a narcissist, I think Oscar's natural reaction will be to stand up to Nel. Should be fascinating!

You are welcome Tim.
      Today should be interesting then!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 09, 2014, 01:32:48 PM
Session 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbz64-Ie0BM
sorry link fault

Session 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HKnQDfm-ek
sorry link fault

Session 3

session 4
session 5
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 09, 2014, 03:26:04 PM
No straight answers at all then. It was an accident! Is that all he can say???
 Nell is getting a bit irate to say the least
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 09, 2014, 03:59:44 PM

Reeva's head exploded just like the watermelon.

"She wasn't breathing" he recalled the other day.

Yeah? No sh*t Oscar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a64lZAxqzI&feature=player_embedded#t=396



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 09, 2014, 04:06:52 PM
Reeva's head exploded just like the watermelon.

"She wasn't breathing" he recalled the other day.

Yeah? No sh*t Oscar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a64lZAxqzI&feature=player_embedded#t=396

What a ridiculous man he is. "My life is at stake here". I liked Nel's comment to this
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 10, 2014, 12:26:12 AM
So Oscar is trying to get off completely by not even admitting he shot at a perceived intruder! He knows the penalty for culpable (reckless) homicide can be severe so he is sticking to 'the gun went off accidentally' story!  I think OP has been badly advised .... he really should admit he shot thru the door at what he thought was a deadly threat to himself and Reeva. Any other version is just ridiculous!

Amazon you were right about Nel .... he takes no prisoners. I thought Nel's posting of the photo of Reeva's head wound was shocking but at the same time a good move. (Reeva's family had been pre warned). The world should see the effects of that vicious Black Talon ammunition Oscar used ..... everyone can now imagine how Reeva suffered being hit in the hip and arm with those vile bullets before the fatal headshot!

And how that poor girl must have been screaming in pain and utter terror!

Go get that guilty man Harry Nel!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 10, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Session 1
Session 2

Session 3 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on April 10, 2014, 12:45:40 PM
I was supposedly 'working' from home yesterday but I must confess it wasn't a very fruitful day as I got somewhat side tracked by listening to the above!

I was wondering if there had been other 'break-ins' in the neighbourhood and if so whether any violence was involved?  OP made ref yesterday to a neighbour being broken into but it sounded pretty low key.  I know SA can be a violent place but are celebs/those perceived to be wealthy targeted in their homes?  The property was in some sort of gated community?  So I'm assuming the residents either had security or it wasn't deemed necessary?  Surely if he felt vulnerable he had the resources to have on-site security/a bodyguard? 



   
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 10, 2014, 02:22:40 PM
I came across this still today which was taken while the TV link was suspended. 

Note a grinning Pistorius directed at Prosecutor Nel!

(http://i.imgur.com/GyD16zg.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 10, 2014, 02:56:47 PM
I came across this still today which was taken while the TV link was suspended. 

Note a grinning Pistorius directed at Prosecutor Nel!

(http://i.imgur.com/GyD16zg.jpg?1)

Yes John, it does appear so, but I think he is smiling at the white haired person behind the computer screen and Oscar's talking attracted the attention of Nel and the chap behind Nel. It would be a bad thing if he was grinning at Nel, unless of course Nel was telling him he was about to ask for adjourn.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: sadie on April 10, 2014, 03:21:05 PM
I know it has to happen, but this whole trial is appalling me.

If Oscar did accidentally shoot Reeva ... and we dont know yet ... then to have to go thru the abrasive interogation that he is being subjected to is mind bogglingly cruel, imo.

It feels like the treatment that Blacks used to get when Apartheid was prevalent.

Someone that I used to work with bragged about it  8)><( and then laughed.

She was some sort of official and she used to command the black man "Come here, Boy".  Then she or her hubby would smack him hard across the face ... both sides, just so he knew his place ... before he even opened his mouth  ......................  Nazis.  Fascists.  Bullies, I hate them



The prosecution lead lawyer seemed to be using a similar but watered down version of the same  technique.  The way he addressed Oscar was disgusting imo
.
As to guilty of premeditated murder, we dont KNOW yet 




I know this case has to happen, but surely it can be done in a civil manner?

Thank God the world is watching !
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 10, 2014, 03:53:07 PM
I know it has to happen, but this whole trial is appalling me.

If Oscar did accidentally shoot Reeva ... and we dont know yet ... then to have to go thru the abrasive interogation that he is being subjected to is mind bogglingly cruel, imo.

It feels like the treatment that Blacks used to get when Apartheid was prevalent.

Someone that I used to work with bragged about it  8)><( and then laughed.

She was some sort of official and she used to command the black man "Come here, Boy".  Then she or her hubby would smack him hard across the face ... both sides, just so he knew his place ... before he even opened his mouth  ......................  Nazis.  Fascists.  Bullies, I hate them



The prosecution lead lawyer seemed to be using a similar but watered down version of the same  technique.  The way he addressed Oscar was disgusting imo
.
As to guilty of premeditated murder, we dont KNOW yet 




I know this case has to happen, but surely it can be done in a civil manner?

Thank God the world is watching !

I totally disagree with every word you wrote! Even if OP is telling the truth (as if!) to fire those vicious bullets through a locked door is beyond doubt culpable homicide in my opinion! Those Black Tallon bullets chosen by OP are designed to cause as much hurt and pain as possible ..... to kill! Even if it was a burglar/attacker there is no justification!

Look what he did to Reeva, for god's sake, and you think his ludicrous story shouldn't be attacked? Aaawwww poor Oscar! And quite how you bring racist issues into this case is beyond me!

The World is watching and in the South African Gerrie Nel is being lauditted ..... and rightly so!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2014, 04:14:10 PM
I know it has to happen, but this whole trial is appalling me.

If Oscar did accidentally shoot Reeva ... and we dont know yet ... then to have to go thru the abrasive interogation that he is being subjected to is mind bogglingly cruel, imo.

It feels like the treatment that Blacks used to get when Apartheid was prevalent.

Someone that I used to work with bragged about it  8)><( and then laughed.

She was some sort of official and she used to command the black man "Come here, Boy".  Then she or her hubby would smack him hard across the face ... both sides, just so he knew his place ... before he even opened his mouth  ......................  Nazis.  Fascists.  Bullies, I hate them



The prosecution lead lawyer seemed to be using a similar but watered down version of the same  technique.  The way he addressed Oscar was disgusting imo
.
As to guilty of premeditated murder, we dont KNOW yet 




I know this case has to happen, but surely it can be done in a civil manner?

Thank God the world is watching !

With greatest respect to you Sadie, it is my opinion that OP has been given free rein to defend himself by the court.
He has, of course, tried to paint himself in the best possible light as is his right and has spent a lot of time to do so.
 
It is now his turn to be interrogated thoroughly, and to have his actions and the statements he has made investigated in the minutest detail.
That is the duty owed by the prosecution to Reeva Steenkamp who suffered a horrendous death at his hands.   
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 10, 2014, 04:16:51 PM
I totally disagree with every word you wrote! Even if OP is telling the truth (as if!) to fire those vicious bullets through a locked door is beyond doubt culpable homicide in my opinion! Those Black Tallon bullets chosen by OP are designed to cause as much hurt and pain as possible ..... to kill! Even if it was a burglar/attacker there is no justification!

Look what he did to Reeva, for god's sake, and you think his ludicrous story shouldn't be attacked? Aaawwww poor Oscar! And quite how you bring racist issues into this case is beyond me!

The World is watching and in the South African Gerrie Nel is being lauditted ..... and rightly so!

Look what he did to Reeva, for god's sake, and you think his ludicrous story shouldn't be attacked?

Indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a64lZAxqzI&feature=player_embedded#t=396

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 10, 2014, 04:40:30 PM
I know it has to happen, but this whole trial is appalling me.

If Oscar did accidentally shoot Reeva ... and we dont know yet ... then to have to go thru the abrasive interogation that he is being subjected to is mind bogglingly cruel, imo.

It feels like the treatment that Blacks used to get when Apartheid was prevalent.

Someone that I used to work with bragged about it  8)><( and then laughed.

She was some sort of official and she used to command the black man "Come here, Boy".  Then she or her hubby would smack him hard across the face ... both sides, just so he knew his place ... before he even opened his mouth  ......................  Nazis.  Fascists.  Bullies, I hate them



The prosecution lead lawyer seemed to be using a similar but watered down version of the same  technique.  The way he addressed Oscar was disgusting imo
.
As to guilty of premeditated murder, we dont KNOW yet 

I know this case has to happen, but surely it can be done in a civil manner?

Thank God the world is watching !

Nothing wrong with that... it's his job !

What do you expect Nel to do... pussyfoot around and gently ask if Pistorius is telling the truth ?  It has to be prised out of obstructive intransigent killers, Sadie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWDIlSMTMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VWDIlSMTMc)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2014, 04:46:17 PM
Yes John, it does appear so, but I think he is smiling at the white haired person behind the computer screen and Oscar's talking attracted the attention of Nel and the chap behind Nel. It would be a bad thing if he was grinning at Nel, unless of course Nel was telling him he was about to ask for adjourn.

I'm with John on this one, Anna, I think his line of vision seems to be in the direction of the prosecutor who is looking directly at him.

I think it is sometimes wrong to take a fleeting expression caught in one frame in a moment of time and give it more attention than it deserves.  However,this man has spent days howling and retching in court and we are all left wondering about how genuine his distress is, including Reeva's family.


Reeva Steenkamp's mother reveals her personal hell every time she watches Oscar Pistorius in the dock

Apr 10, 2014 08:27 
By Lucy Thornton
THE mum of Reeva Steenkamp has told how she has been unable to take her eyes off Oscar Pistorius as the champion athlete has stood trial for murdering her daughter.

The heartbroken mother has sat in dignified silence for weeks while the “Blade Runner” athlete accused of murdering her daughter Reeva collapses in hysterics, vomits, retches and puts his fingers in his ears.
She has endured endless bloody pictures of the crime scene, the weapon and, horrifyingly, Reeva’s catastrophic head wound.
But it has left her haunted by one burning question – is he acting?

June has exclusively revealed to the Mirror how she studies Pistorius's every move in a bid to find the truth.
She admitted: “It was a big thing for me to go to the trial in the first place and face up to what is going on.
“It’s very traumatic when certain things come up. This is my child – and I must listen to the graphic detail.
“I look at Oscar the whole time, to see how he is coping, how he is behaving. I’m obsessed with looking at him, it’s just instinctive, I can’t explain it.
“I keep thinking, ‘let me see how he’s taking this’. He has been very dramatic, the vomiting and crying.”
She added: “I think he’s just about keeping himself together. I don’t know whether he’s acting.
"Most of the time he’s on his cell phone or looking down at papers or writing notes.”
Talking about that very public apology from the Paralympics champion, June said: “It left me unmoved. I knew it was coming.
"My lawyers had prepared me for it.
“I cried for the first time, ‘Yes’, but not because he apologised, because of the suffering and agony that my darling daughter went through and because I will never have her again.”
She admitted it has been an ordeal hearing the gruesome details of Reeva’s death, as expert after expert discusses blood spatter, flesh-tearing bullets and whether or not she was capable of screaming before she died.
As the trial has gone on, she said, Pistorius’s family have slowly started to make overtures to her.
His sister Aimee handed her a note to say how “sorry” the family is for her loss and inviting her to “reach out” to them for support.
But June, 67 dismissed the approach, saying: “It won’t bring my daughter back.”
She added: “We just want to know the truth.”
June, who never met 29-year-old Reeva’s celebrity boyfriend, wears a picture of her model and law graduate daughter on her lapel in court.
She has previously criticised Pistorius for failing to acknowledge her on the first day of the trial.
She said: “He did eventually look at me. My presence unnerves him, I’m sure of it. He’s answerable to me.
"He looked at me and said, ‘Good morning, Mrs Steenkamp’.
"I never answered, I just nodded my head.
“It was for him to see me, nothing to do with what I’m seeing and what I’m feeling, do you understand?
"I don’t know the man. All I know is what he’s done.
“He must see me there in the court, he must feel my eyes boring into him, I think it makes a lot of difference.
“I do look at him too much, maybe. I like to see how he is reacting.
I can see him very clearly, even without my glasses – he’s the only one I can see, he’s right in front of me.”
June winced as she recalled one particular picture during the trial that “wiped her out”.
She cannot bring herself to describe it, but said: “It was just horrendous, I will see that picture for the rest of my life.
"Until the day I die, I promise you.”
As the world watches her every move, June is hurting. She is just not showing it – in complete contrast to Pistorius.
She explained: “I keep it all in and when I get back to the hotel it all comes out and I break down.
“I start crying out, crying all the tears and pain I’ve held inside in court. I feel very vulnerable.
"The whole world is watching you and you don’t want people to see you when you’re in pain.
“I don’t want to be crying in public. I’m a private person. I like to keep my feelings to myself.
“I’m being strong for Reeva, I have to be there. It’s hard for me to do it, but I’m representing my child.
“I’m there for her, as much as it’s hell for me, I know that I have to be there, I’m compelled to be there.”
June often attends court with Reeva’s cousin Kim, who was very close to her daughter.
She said: “Kim looks after me like I’m her mother.”
But June has had to endure the daily nightmare without husband Barry, 69, who has been too ill to travel the 700 miles to Pretoria from their home in Port Elizabeth.
But now the devoted dad has vowed to risk his life to be at his wife’s side.
He said: “I’ve had a stroke and they advised me not to fly, but I want to go. I want to be in court.
"June doesn’t want me to, but I’m making my own plans to get there.”
June fears the stress of the trial could kill her husband, a professional race horse trainer – even though she understands why he wants to make the trip.
She admitted they both share a deep feeling of helplessness at the the thought of their daughter’s final agony.
“That’s all I think about when I’m on my own,” she said.
“It haunts me... we couldn’t help her, we couldn’t do anything.
“I imagine how she must have been in terror and pain and suffering, devastated by what was going on.
"I relive that scene in the bathroom and it’s changed me so much, made me harder.”
She added: “My daughter is dead. He killed her.
"He shot her till she was dead in that toilet, in that bathroom, so how am I ever going to feel better about it?
 “She was the most wonderful, beautiful person, inside and out, and she was everything to Barry and me – our lives are destroyed.
"At the moment I’m just surviving , trying to make it through each day, I pray a lot and don’t feel God has let me down.
"If you live with God you take the good with the bad. What am I praying for? Strength.
“I’m representing Reeva at the trial, People want to see me there.
"Also suddenly I’ve just got strength from somewhere and the will to be there every day, because it’s not easy.”
June insisted: “I don’t care what happens to Oscar, I don’t even care if he goes free.
"All I know is that he has to stand up to what he’s done and – if he has to – pay for it.
“What difference is it going to make to me if he goes to prison for 25 years or is allowed to walk free?
"No one can tell me how I should feel, and those are my feelings.
“I’m not a person who wants to punish him. I want my daughter back, but it’s never going to happen.”
Barry added: “I don’t need revenge, just the truth.”
But June said of their daughter’s killer: “He has an aggressive persona, he’s used to having people adore him, so it must be pretty different for him now.
“He’s been spoilt by other people, that’s why he struts around and looks superior.
"He’s gone from hero to devil."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-reeva-steenkamps-3395105

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 10, 2014, 05:00:32 PM
I'm with John on this one, Anna, I think his line of vision seems to be in the direction of the prosecutor who is looking directly at him.

I think it is sometimes wrong to take a fleeting expression caught in one frame in a moment of time and give it more attention than it deserves.  However,this man has spent days howling and retching in court and we are all left wondering about how genuine his distress is, including Reeva's family.


Nel could have been distracted by noises at the courtroom door, somebody's mobile ringtone going off, or his i-pad was answering back.   It's happened before.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
Nel could have been distracted by noises at the courtroom door, somebody's mobile ringtone going off, or his i-pad was answering back.   It's happened before.

Possibly, and it is not clear if he is reacting to such a distraction or addressing Oscar Pretorius.

Do you have an explanation for what is undoubtedly a wide smile on OP's face?
However, without knowing what the context is, we can only speculate about what is passing through his mind and it is of no importance anyway.

The court will decide on the evidence being presented, not interpretation of one still frame and at the moment the focus has passed from OP to what happened to Reeva and what he says occurred in the bathroom and to objects in the crime scene.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 10, 2014, 07:00:19 PM
I was only going on what had happened on a different day, when Nel's own i-pad started to make unusual talk back noises. One of the defence teams' mobile phones rang yesterday too, which lightened the sombre courtroom atmosphere for a short time, so there was some subdued laughter.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: sadie on April 11, 2014, 02:09:16 AM
With greatest respect to you Sadie, it is my opinion that OP has been given free rein to defend himself by the court.
He has, of course, tried to paint himself in the best possible light as is his right and has spent a lot of time to do so.
 
It is now his turn to be interrogated thoroughly, and to have his actions and the statements he has made investigated in the minutest detail.
That is the duty owed by the prosecution to Reeva Steenkamp who suffered a horrendous death at his hands.   

I accept that Brietta and I accept that he has to be questioned.  Today wasn't so bad but yesterdays questioning need not have been so brutal.

It seems that almost certainly he is guilty of killing someone and in a reckless manner, and if so, he deserves a good jail sentence. 

But that prosecuting counsel need not have been so brutal at the beginning. 

Sorry Tim, but as I said before, it reminded me of the way that people I knew, who had dealt with black Africans by smacking them hard across the face before they started dealing with the situation.... deliberately hurting and demeaning them

No need for it.  Nazi / Fascist type behaviour. 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 11, 2014, 08:23:51 AM
I accept that Brietta and I accept that he has to be questioned.  Today wasn't so bad but yesterdays questioning need not have been so brutal.

It seems that almost certainly he is guilty of killing someone and in a reckless manner, and if so, he deserves a good jail sentence. 

But that prosecuting counsel need not have been so brutal at the beginning. 

Sorry Tim, but as I said before, it reminded me of the way that people I knew, who had dealt with black Africans by smacking them hard across the face before they started dealing with the situation.... deliberately hurting and demeaning them

No need for it.  Nazi / Fascist type behaviour.

What's so bad about the Nazis or fascism for that matter?

What really bothers me for example is, it's ok for the Scots to vote for the SNP but when I vote BNP, go to EDL rallies & goose step around in a Luftwafte uniform, people call me racist.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 11, 2014, 08:48:31 AM
Friday 11th april 2014
session 1

adjourned 12 noon until Monday 14th april
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on April 11, 2014, 02:12:41 PM
I accept that Brietta and I accept that he has to be questioned.  Today wasn't so bad but yesterdays questioning need not have been so brutal.

It seems that almost certainly he is guilty of killing someone and in a reckless manner, and if so, he deserves a good jail sentence. 

But that prosecuting counsel need not have been so brutal at the beginning. 

Sorry Tim, but as I said before, it reminded me of the way that people I knew, who had dealt with black Africans by smacking them hard across the face before they started dealing with the situation.... deliberately hurting and demeaning them

No need for it.  Nazi / Fascist type behaviour.

And yet it goes on openely everywhere especially in the states and even now in the UK.

I didnt see anything of concern.

This guy was trying to rattle Pistorius thats his job. Why would he pussy foot around him..?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on April 11, 2014, 02:55:31 PM
Pistorius told the court today that Reeva never screamed and that he was silent so as not to alert the so-called intruder yet several witnesses heard her scream and before the final shots.  He must think the judge is a total buffoon if he believes for a nanosecond that he can get away with that one.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 11, 2014, 06:30:09 PM
Initially I thought Oscar Pretorius’s version of events was being accepted by default.

I think the prosecutor is doing a great job in the way he is weaving each small piece of evidence together to establish what did and what did not happen that night.
It had been impressed on us so often that the police had tampered with the crime scene, I for one believed it, but no more. 

The dogged determination of Mr Nel regarding getting answers to the question he was asking and not the one rehearsed is making things clearer.  From the positioning of the fans to the duvet on the floor with Reeva’s denims on top and forensic questioning about the alarm system he established that OP’s narrative was impossible. 

He left Pretorius with no room for manoeuvre with his description of Reeva Steenkamp standing directly behind the door pleading with him before he shot four times using ammunition he knew would cause devastating injury. 

Apparently OP will not be allowed to discuss the case with anyone including counsel while he remains under cross examination so IMO he is going to have a really bad weekend thinking what is waiting for him on Monday. 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 11, 2014, 06:50:36 PM
Now that Nel has got his opponent on the ropes, he decided to finish early to let Pistorius seriously consider his position over the weekend. I'm expecting a knockout blow, i.e. a confession early next week.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 12, 2014, 01:44:54 AM
Pistorius told the court today that Reeva never screamed and that he was silent so as not to alert the so-called intruder yet several witnesses heard her scream and before the final shots.  He must think the judge is a total buffoon if he believes for a nanosecond that he can get away with that one.

Pistorius is saying Reeva didn't scream because he is going to introduce 'evidence' later, thru 'experts', confirming he actually screams like a girl when he is panicking. That's also why he said he was shouting and screaming as he went down the passage to the bathroom!

It makes him sound ridiculous because Reeva would have responded to him but he has to say it to counteract all the neighbours who testified to hearing a woman's screams before the shots! Oscar is really between a rock and a hard place on this point and that is the best story he can come up with; however ludicrous it sounds!

Gerrie Nel is quite brilliant in my opinion!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Andrea on April 12, 2014, 01:58:57 AM
Not had chance to follow this trial to be honest. Tim, what do you think the likely outcome will be?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 12, 2014, 02:52:17 AM
The usual excuse that he can’t remember and/or the police moved everything in the room. There wasn’t time to think
                     He said she didn’t scream and if she was screaming he wouldn’t have heard her, because his ears were ringing from the first shot.
                    He also said he told her (quietly, because he didn’t want the intruder to hear) to go down and call the police because he said, he thought she was in bed. He then said he ran down the hall shouting and screaming?.
                   Its pitch dark in the bedroom when the curtains are closed, he says. Then said he could see the outline of the Jeans/duvet by a little light on his amplifier ,  which he said he had covered with jeans,
                 Her Jeans were on top of duvet on the floor, which means the duvet wasn’t on the bed when he left the room because he removed the jeans to expose the little Led light so he could see enough to get out
 but he couldn’t see his partner?
 He found his gun OK in the dark!
He was in a right muddle today

In fact so am I! The above doesn’t make sense at all does it?


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 12, 2014, 08:11:48 AM
If there had been an intruder in the house the first thing any normal person would have done was to rouse their partner quietly in a whisper.  Pistorius made no attempt whatsoever to interact with Reeva whom he claimed he thought was still in bed.  Reminds me of Jeremy Bamber and the fateful telephone call from daddy which never existed. It is always the simplest detail which catches these liars out.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 12, 2014, 09:09:29 AM
If there had been an intruder in the house the first thing any normal person would have done was to rouse their partner quietly in a whisper.  Pistorius made no attempt whatsoever to interact with Reeva whom he claimed he thought was still in bed.  Reminds me of Jeremy Bamber and the fateful telephone call from daddy which never existed. It is always the simplest detail which catches these liars out.

Not only that but he's now trying to shift blame onto the police for interfering with the crime scene. Things I'm not too happy about are the earlier references in previous sessions to police moving the cricket bat in the bathroom, spreading the duvet on the floor, drawing open the curtains and shutters before photographs of the scene were taken. Or the veiled accusation that a light-fingered copper had lifted a couple of OP's wristwatches.

With reference to Jeremy Bamber, what strikes me though is the similar way Pistorius has moved the terrible memory of what he had to done to the back of his mind from where it has dropped off as if it never existed at all.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 12, 2014, 09:28:16 AM
The usual excuse that he can’t remember and/or the police moved everything in the room. There wasn’t time to think
                     He said she didn’t scream and if she was screaming he wouldn’t have heard her, because his ears were ringing from the first shot.
                    He also said he told her (quietly, because he didn’t want the intruder to hear) to go down and call the police because he said, he thought she was in bed. He then said he ran down the hall shouting and screaming?.
                   Its pitch dark in the bedroom when the curtains are closed, he says. Then said he could see the outline of the Jeans/duvet by a little light on his amplifier ,  which he said he had covered with jeans,
                 Her Jeans were on top of duvet on the floor, which means the duvet wasn’t on the bed when he left the room because he removed the jeans to expose the little Led light so he could see enough to get out
 but he couldn’t see his partner?
 He found his gun OK in the dark!
He was in a right muddle today

In fact so am I! The above doesn’t make sense at all does it?



Thanks for sharing the links Anna, gripping stuff.

None of Oscars story makes any sense & by the look of the reactions of Reevas family, they aint buying it either.

There is no way he thought she was a burglar, total bullshit.

I hope the judge isn't fooled by his fake emotion & all those high pitched whiney voiced 'My Lady's"
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 12, 2014, 02:12:22 PM
Thanks for sharing the links Anna, gripping stuff.

None of Oscars story makes any sense & by the look of the reactions of Reevas family, they aint buying it either.

There is no way he thought she was a burglar, total bullshit.

I hope the judge isn't fooled by his fake emotion & all those high pitched whiney voiced 'My Lady's"

You are very welcome WS.
 I didn't watch the trial at first because it was pretty gruesome and that lad looks so normal, but I have found that no normal person could have done what he has done.
Reeva's family are closer to it all than we are, so I trust their judgement. Unfortunately there is no punishment to match the suffering that Reeva must have gone through, so there is no way that she or her family are going to get the Justice deserved for such a brutal crime.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 12, 2014, 04:35:26 PM
Just been catching up on some footage from the trial.  Pistorius at one stage in his cross examination last week responded to Nel that his memory wasn't very good at the moment.  @)(++(*   I suppose that's one excuse for the inconsistencies in his responses.

Thanks for linking to the videos Anna.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 12, 2014, 05:27:08 PM
Just been catching up on some footage from the trial.  Pistorius at one stage in his cross examination last week responded to Nel that his memory wasn't very good at the moment.  @)(++(*   I suppose that's one excuse for the inconsistencies in his responses.

Thanks for linking to the videos Anna.

You are welcome John.
                          The ways things are going for Oscar, I will be redundant soon  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 12, 2014, 06:49:29 PM
You are welcome John.
                          The ways things are going for Oscar, I will be redundant soon  @)(++(*

There's always Dewani, I hear he is feeling much better now that he has abandoned the anorak.  Must be the SA sun.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02875/dewani-watermarked_2875967b.jpg)

A smartly dressed Shrien Dewani leaves court in Cape Town - a far cry from his dishevelled appearance in the UK - as eyebrows are raised about the A-list treatment he has received.

No response needed as off topic.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 12, 2014, 06:55:18 PM
There's always Dewani, I hear he is feeling much better now that he has abandoned the anorak.  Must be the SA sun.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74104000/jpg/_74104596_74104595.jpg)

He doesn't look too well in that photo..............................Lost a shilling found a penny, look!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 12, 2014, 07:31:37 PM
He doesn't look too well in that photo..............................Lost a shilling found a penny, look!

He's not used to the bright SA sunlight.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 13, 2014, 12:55:17 AM
Not had chance to follow this trial to be honest. Tim, what do you think the likely outcome will be?

Hi Andi hun, good to see you.

I think Oscar will be convicted of premeditated murder and get a very long, effectively a life sentence. I cannot believe the judge will be swayed by Oscar's tears which are all for himself!

All the videos are posted above Andi or on you tube. Gerrie Nel the prosecutor is very good .... perhaps even better than Juan Martinez. Try and catch last thurs/fri if you can .... riveting stuff!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 13, 2014, 08:31:29 AM
Reeva's sister Simone Steenkamp speaks out...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603268/Pistorius-lying-head-shot-sister-fit-rage-Reevas-family-reveal-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603268/Pistorius-lying-head-shot-sister-fit-rage-Reevas-family-reveal-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 13, 2014, 02:01:13 PM
Reeva's sister Simone Steenkamp speaks out...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603268/Pistorius-lying-head-shot-sister-fit-rage-Reevas-family-reveal-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603268/Pistorius-lying-head-shot-sister-fit-rage-Reevas-family-reveal-horror-smirking-Bladerunner-face-court.html)

Thanks Myster. Nice to hear Reeva's sister saying what we all believe; Oscar is a "disgusting liar"!

OP deserves no sympathy for putting the Steenkamp's through this trial! If he had admitted killing Reeva in a split second fit of anger, he would have deserved less of a sentence than a planned murder like Dewani's. But now he has gone to trial with this ridiculous story he should get the maximum sentence! (imo)

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 13, 2014, 03:25:36 PM
Thanks Myster. Nice to hear Reeva's sister saying what we all believe; Oscar is a "disgusting liar"!

OP deserves no sympathy for putting the Steenkamp's through this trial! If he had admitted killing Reeva in a split second fit of anger, he would have deserved less of a sentence than a planned murder like Dewani's. But now he has gone to trial with this ridiculous story he should get the maximum sentence! (imo)

I must admit I do almost feel a tiny bit sorry for the guy, he is obviously a hot headed, narcissistic, gun loving, testosterone filled beef cake & he had the world at his prosthetic feet, for a while. 
He has lost his temper & shot his girlfriend dead & his world is now on the brink of total ruin.
That he is having to concoct this most ridiculous burglar story is testament to the immense regret he obviously feels for what he has done, but for his own sake not Reeva's.

Actually, I take it all back, he's a c..t.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 13, 2014, 03:58:01 PM
I must admit I do almost feel a tiny bit sorry for the guy, he is obviously a hot headed, narcissistic, gun loving, testosterone filled beef cake & he had the world at his prosthetic feet, for a while. 
He has lost his temper & shot his girlfriend dead & his world is now on the brink of total ruin.
That he is having to concoct this most ridiculous burglar story is testament to the immense regret he obviously feels for what he has done, but for his own sake not Reeva's.

Actually, I take it all back, he's a c..t.

 @)(++(* Love the last sentence!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 13, 2014, 05:55:19 PM
Thanks Myster. Nice to hear Reeva's sister saying what we all believe; Oscar is a "disgusting liar"!

OP deserves no sympathy for putting the Steenkamp's through this trial! If he had admitted killing Reeva in a split second fit of anger, he would have deserved less of a sentence than a planned murder like Dewani's. But now he has gone to trial with this ridiculous story he should get the maximum sentence! (imo)

Not like you Tim, being so regular with the imo's.. LOL !   Mind you .. you've got to watch your back online these days.

I don't know if victim impact statements are allowed yet in South African Courts (although usually only after the sentence has been set) so I guess talking to the Mail was one outlet for the family to try and influence the result, but hope it doesn't have the opposite effect and bias the judge's opinion in OP's favour if she hears/reads about it.

Wonder if OP will cough next week and surprise us all, or dig a deeper hole for himself ?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 13, 2014, 06:03:04 PM
Not like you Tim, being so regular with the imo's.. LOL !   Mind you .. you've got to watch your back online these days.

I don't know if victim impact statements are allowed yet in South African Courts (although usually only after the sentence has been set) so I guess talking to the Mail was one outlet for the family to try and influence the result, but hope it doesn't have the opposite effect and bias the judge's opinion in OP's favour if she hears/reads about it.

Wonder if OP will cough next week and surprise us all, or dig a deeper hole for himself ?

Well I put the imo's in as I don't want to appear an overbearing, opinionated, narcissistic arsehole like OP! That doesn't mean I don't know I am right!  8)-)))
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 14, 2014, 01:31:46 AM
Pistorius has a chavvy back tattoo with the words as follows:

I do not run like a man running aimlessly
I do not fight like a man beating the air
I execute each strike with intent
I beat my body and make it my slave

Very revealing as to the mindset of this narcissistic killer I would say!



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Joanne on April 14, 2014, 10:31:05 AM
I'm trying to look at this from both sides but it's not proving easy.
I can imagine being him feeling absolutely horrendous about what I'd done, knowing I had killed Reeva and not being ever to bring her back or apologise enough to her family. I also have tried to put myself in the position of the family and how they must feel. I can't imagine their world now.
I do think he made a mistake.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 14, 2014, 11:08:38 AM
Jeez...not another time out!

 Is it just me or does it look that every time Pistorius gets it tight he reverts to tear mode?   

 ...and Gerrie Nel agrees with me!  8@??)(
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 14, 2014, 11:25:02 AM
14 April 2014
session 1

session 2


session 3


 Faulty link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsUK8mhGFw

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 14, 2014, 12:44:37 PM
Mr Nel is illustrating with his unrelenting questioning the absolute flaws in Oscar Pistorius’s version of events, which seem to change to suit each question put to him.
 
In my opinion OP is tying himself in knots and if the horror of what he did was not being made so apparent one could almost feel sorry for him. 

The picture shown in court to show the trajectory of the bullets was chilling. 
I  think Mr Nel is directing attention from OP’s histrionics in court to the terror Reeva was subjected to in that enclosed toilet.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 14, 2014, 02:44:54 PM
Quick news roundups of weeks in case you missed a bit.
All video are below on separate posts

Week 1 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26481420
Week 2 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26567619
Week 3 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26675384
week 4 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26783391
week5 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26993395




Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on April 14, 2014, 04:11:48 PM
How can he say he MADE A MISTAKE.

Ha, the knew defence.

I stabbed my husband with a large kitchen knife, ooops I made a mistake i was supposed to be cutting up a chicken... 8(>((
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2014, 05:59:56 PM
How can he say he MADE A MISTAKE.

Ha, the knew defence.

I stabbed my husband with a large kitchen knife, ooops I made a mistake i was supposed to be cutting up a chicken... 8(>((

Why would a burglar search inside the toilet ?... to look for Oscar's crown jewels of course.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2014, 06:02:31 PM
A telling moment was when Nel asked "What did you shout at the intruder ?"

After a prolonged silence OP replied twice in a raised voice..."Get the f*ck out of my house ! Get the f*ck out of my house !"

... then he broke down and sobbed. Court adjourned for a few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZYtDsMhIE&feature=share&t=1h17m54s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZYtDsMhIE&feature=share&t=1h17m54s)

Was he in fact recalling what he actually shouted at Reeva, if she said to him "I'm leaving you, Oscar" and this thought touched a raw nerve ?

Then when court resumed with similar questioning the expletives had disappeared, with no subsequent breakdown and crying.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 14, 2014, 06:36:31 PM
He heard the magazine rack move, that they know for sure, that's why he changed his aim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsUK8mhGFw&feature=player_embedded#t=3672

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2014, 07:07:42 PM
He heard the magazine rack move, that they know for sure, that's why he changed his aim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsUK8mhGFw&feature=player_embedded#t=3672 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsUK8mhGFw&feature=player_embedded#t=3672)

(http://i.imgur.com/3X4a8xS.jpg)

Yes, he fired the first shot A (bottom trajectory) hitting Reeva's pelvis as she was stood up, then when he heard her fall back on to the magazine rack which was against the wall to the left of the toilet bowl, he changed his aim further to his right, shot B (next trajectory up) which missed her but ricocheted off the wall, shattered and caused bruising on her back.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 14, 2014, 07:25:39 PM
I've been glued to these trial videos for days now & there have been two killings so far as I can see.

Reeva getting killed in the toilet & Oscars story getting killed in the courtroom.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 14, 2014, 07:33:32 PM
I've been glued to these trial videos for days now & there have been two killings so far as I can see.

Reeva getting killed in the toilet & Oscars story getting killed in the courtroom.

Am I correct there with shot B, WS... or was it the third shot C (third trajectory up) which missed her ?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 14, 2014, 07:40:30 PM
Am I correct there with shot B, WS... or was it the third shot C (third trajectory up) which missed her ?

Not sure on that I'm afraid.



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 15, 2014, 12:09:58 AM
So without being too crass can we all give our thoughts on what the verdict and sentence (if applicable) will be?

Guilty of murder (premeditated). or
Culpable homicide. or
Innocent

My view is guilty of murder and he is going to get a full life sentence.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: a.baker on April 15, 2014, 12:16:45 AM
Am I correct there with shot B, WS... or was it the third shot C (third trajectory up) which missed her ?
Shot A is said to be Reeva's hip
Shot B is said to have missed
Shot C is said to have hit Reeva's arm
Shot D is said to be final shot that is believed to be the head shot

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 15, 2014, 09:51:03 AM
So without being too crass can we all give our thoughts on what the verdict and sentence (if applicable) will be?

Guilty of murder (premeditated). or
Culpable homicide. or
Innocent

My view is guilty of murder and he is going to get a full life sentence.

Should be guilty of murder imo.

I'll be glad when the trial is over, it kept me awake thinking about it last night  8(8-))
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 15, 2014, 09:51:51 AM
Tuesday 15 April 2014

session 1




session 3

session 4

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 15, 2014, 09:54:38 AM
Tuesday 15 April 2014

session 1


No more please Anna, I can't stop watching them.....   
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: puglove on April 15, 2014, 10:11:44 AM
Should be guilty of murder imo.

I'll be glad when the trial is over, it kept me awake thinking about it last night  8(8-))

OMG, me too, I kept dreaming that I was Reeva, and waking up with my heart banging.

I hope he gets life, but I'm doubtful.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 15, 2014, 11:16:31 AM
No more please Anna, I can't stop watching them.....   8(8-))

 @)(++(*

It does seem to be going on and on and on . I cant keep up
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: colombosstogey on April 15, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/3X4a8xS.jpg)

Yes, he fired the first shot A (bottom trajectory) hitting Reeva's pelvis as she was stood up, then when he heard her fall back on to the magazine rack which was against the wall to the left of the toilet bowl, he changed his aim further to his right, shot B (next trajectory up) which missed her but ricocheted off the wall, shattered and caused bruising on her back.

She would have screamed, so did Pisstake Pistorius think it was a burglar screaming like a girl.......

The point for me is.

He shouts, Get the f&&ck out of my house, what twice close to the toilet door, now how come Reeva didnt hear him for gods sake.....He gave some nonsense about the fact or reason why he wouldnt hear her, so the same goes for a burglar surely, if no one replied why would you shoot at a door?

The blokes more barmy then the other one who has just had to go to SA after saying he was off his tree, but is now facing a trail.

No matter how you look at this case it just doesnt make no sense.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 15, 2014, 01:13:49 PM
She would have screamed, so did Pisstake Pistorius think it was a burglar screaming like a girl.......

The point for me is.

He shouts, Get the f&&ck out of my house, what twice close to the toilet door, now how come Reeva didnt hear him for gods sake.....He gave some nonsense about the fact or reason why he wouldnt hear her, so the same goes for a burglar surely, if no one replied why would you shoot at a door?

The blokes more barmy then the other one who has just had to go to SA after saying he was off his tree, but is now facing a trail.

No matter how you look at this case it just doesnt make no sense.

One thing that makes sense to me, Oscar knew exactly who he was shooting at.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 15, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
It really annoys me is when that murderer uses the excuse he was trying to protect Reeva to explain his actions! Lying scumbag!

I was interested to learn OP faces up to 5 years in prison for each of his two illegal discharge of a firearm charges. He also faces up to 15 years for the illegal possession of unlicensed ammunition in his safe! No wonder he wasn't even willing to admit these charges!

These are obviously maximum sentences but still he could get some serious prison time on those counts alone!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on April 15, 2014, 10:59:24 PM
His story that he thought Reeva was still in bed is the killer for me.  The first thing anyone would do in the circumstances he described would be to warn your partner to get out.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 15, 2014, 11:21:01 PM
His story that he thought Reeva was still in bed is the killer for me.  The first thing anyone would do in the circumstances he described would be to warn your partner to get out.

Witness Mrs Burger & others, described a brief pause between the 1st shot and the remaining 3.

He fired the first shot in the direction of the toilet, heard the magazine rack move when Reeva fell on it & fired the next 3 shots in the direction of where he knew the magazine rack was.

(up to 1:06.30)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMsUK8mhGFw&feature=player_embedded#t=3620

Note the look from Nel to the judge.

'We were waiting for you to say you heard the magazine rack, you did, that's when you changed your aim'

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 16, 2014, 11:52:46 AM
session 1
session 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0au-vUKrE4
session 3
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: QC on April 16, 2014, 06:19:52 PM
I'm struggling to understand what a Forensic Geologist is doing testifying about ballistics, bruises on the body and light levels in the bedroom, a geologist for f##ks sake..........
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 17, 2014, 12:26:49 AM
I'm struggling to understand what a Forensic Geologist is doing testifying about ballistics, bruises on the body and light levels in the bedroom, a geologist for f##ks sake..........

I have never heard a so called expert describe his evidence as a layman's view before! What a ridiculous witness easily exposed by the true expert in his field, Gerrie Nel!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on April 17, 2014, 08:34:38 AM
thur 17 April 2014

Session 1


Session 2

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 17, 2014, 02:29:38 PM
I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 17, 2014, 02:51:17 PM
I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

Well said.

I completely agree.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on April 17, 2014, 07:46:45 PM
I have been reading a description of the ammunition used which killed Reeva Steenkamp as detailed by the State pathologist professor Gert Saayman, and the nature of the injuries she sustained as a result of its use. 

Taking Oscar Pretorius’s account at face value, why did he think it was permissible to fire that at anyone caught like a rat in a trap in what he knew to be the confined space of the toilet cubicle?

If he considered himself in immediate danger I would imagine viewing the effect of a warning shot would have had any intruder cowering in terror and happy to wait quietly for the police or security to arrive.


- The "black talon" or "ranger" ammunition, made by US-based firm Winchester, is designed to "open up, flatten out and mushroom when striking human tissue", Saayman said.
"The usual result is it folds out like the petals of flower. They were specifically designed by the manufacturer to have very sharp jagged edges. This projectile was designed to cause maximum damage. It has a black metal jacket.

"If a surgeon were to operate on a patient shot in this nature you have to be careful as you can easily cut yourself on these edges."   
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

That is a very good point. A normal person would have yelled: "Reeva, Reeva, call security, call the police!", knowing he had the advantage standing there with a lethal weapon pointed at the door.
Of course his excuse would be that he generally felt vulnerable because of his leg-stumps.
He is going to feel awfully vulnerable in jail with those stumps, that is for sure, and I don´t feel good about that,but he made his bed.
That is, IF he gets convicted, I think that judge is "babying" him a tad, asking if he is tired and needs his nappy. That worries me.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 17, 2014, 07:56:40 PM
That is a very good point. A normal person would have yelled: "Reeva, Reeva, call security, call the police!", knowing he had the advantage standing there with a lethal weapon pointed at the door.
Of course his excuse would be that he generally felt vulnerable because of his leg-stumps.
He is going to feel awfully vulnerable in jail with those stumps, that is for sure, and I don´t feel good about that,but he made his bed.
That is, IF he gets convicted, I think that judge is "babying" him a tad, asking if he is tired and needs his nappy. That worries me.

The judge has either got to be seriously stupid or totally bent if she don't find him guilty of murder.

I've watched about 10 full days of the trial now & his pathetic story has been demolished IMO
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on April 17, 2014, 09:54:18 PM
The judge has either got to be seriously stupid or totally bent if she don't find him guilty of murder.

I've watched about 10 full days of the trial now & his pathetic story has been demolished IMO

In my ears too. He slips up on too many things.
Only thing that gives me some doubt is that his former girlfriend testified that he had rushed to the bathroom area with his gun before thinking there was an intruder - wasn´t it like that (haven´t seen that much of the trial - only about five days and then some highlights).
Could be that he has some "hero complex", yes, again out of his insecurity because of those stumps.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: steve_trousers on April 17, 2014, 10:15:48 PM
Who would walk into a restaurant, with friends, for dinner, with a loaded gun and then when it goes off 'by accident' immediately ask his mate to take the blame for it. He wasnt on his stumps then.

He sounds like a total arsehole and a good advert for gun prohibition. Even if he did think it was an intruder he shot through the door 4 times without knowing if this intruder had a gun.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on April 17, 2014, 10:19:31 PM
Who would walk into a restaurant, with friends, for dinner, with a loaded gun and then when it goes off 'by accident' immediately ask his mate to take the blame for it. He wasnt on his stumps then.

He sounds like a total arsehole and a good advert for gun prohibition. Even if he did think it was an intruder he shot through the door 4 times without knowing if this intruder had a gun.

I think he has this inferiority complex whether he is wearing his prosthetic legs or not, but I agree, he seems to be  an a-hole through and throuogh - and that whiny VOICE!  8()(((@#
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 18, 2014, 12:43:47 AM
Jesus wept, Pistorius's KEY defence witness Dickson must be quite the worst 'expert' ever to testify in a court! He did score one good point when he totally refuted Pistorius's own evidence regarding the magazine rack! Surely 2 open apologies for misleading the court before the morning tea break must be some kind of record!  @)(++(*

Gerrie Nel dissected a turnip today! I bet all Oscar's coming 'experts' are burning the midnight oil!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Myster on April 18, 2014, 06:31:43 AM
I think he has this inferiority complex whether he is wearing his prosthetic legs or not, but I agree, he seems to be  an a-hole through and throuogh - and that whiny VOICE!  8()(((@#
Good to see you're on the right side of the fence for once, abs !  8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2014, 11:04:07 AM
Jesus wept, Pistorius's KEY defence witness Dickson must be quite the worst 'expert' ever to testify in a court! He did score one good point when he totally refuted Pistorius's own evidence regarding the magazine rack! Surely 2 open apologies for misleading the court before the morning tea break must be some kind of record!  @)(++(*

Gerrie Nel dissected a turnip today! I bet all Oscar's coming 'experts' are burning the midnight oil!

Don't know how many experts are going to risk their reputations testifying for him.

The pathologist they hired in time to attend the autopsy has confirmed he will not take the stand.

Possibly explains why they used a geologist.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on April 18, 2014, 01:47:10 PM
Good to see you're on the right side of the fence for once, abs !  8((()*/

LOL, Myster!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
Apologies, I should have posted a link in my previous post where I claimed Oscar Pistorius's witness was not prepared to take the stand on his behalf, there are quite a few -

Expert hired by Pistorius won't testify
Updated: 05:44, Friday April 18, 2014

A star pathologist hired by Oscar Pistorius says he will not testify at the athlete's murder trial, in another blow for his defence after a week of savage cross-examination.

Private forensic pathologist Reggie Perumal - who joined Pistorius's hand-picked team soon after Reeva Steenkamp was killed on Valentine's Day morning 2013 - will not take the stand, amid suggestions his post-mortem findings support key parts of the prosecution's case.

Perumal was hired by Pistorius in time to attend the model's autopsy.

When asked if he would testify, the Durban-based pathologist told AFP 'no, ma'am'.

'I think you're aware that I can't say anything right now.'

Perumal's absence from the witness box casts further doubt on the believability of Pistorius' story, after a week in which the Paralympic star and one of his hired experts were torn to shreds by prosecutor Gerrie Nel.

On Thursday, Nel hammered defence expert Roger Dixon, a forensic geologist who testified on key elements of the Pistorius crime scene, including the order of the bullets that hit Steenkamp.

Nel derided the quality of the expert's testimony, accusing him of 'misleading' the court.

'I am not trying to mislead the court,' Dixon said.

Pistorius has pleaded not guilty to intentionally killing Steenkamp, a 29-year-old law graduate and aspiring reality television star, saying he mistook her for an intruder in his upmarket Pretoria villa.

The state alleges the 27-year-old Olympian and Paralympic gold medallist shot his girlfriend in a fit of rage.

State pathologist Gert Saayman said vegetable matter in Steenkamp's stomach suggested she ate about two hours prior to her death at 3.17am, a finding that conflicts with Pistorius' version of events that the couple were peacefully asleep at that time.

'To the best of my recollection he was in agreement,' said Saayman about Perumal.

'We must be, so to speak, on the same page before we leave the autopsy room,' he said.

Instead of Perumal, the defence called Jan Botha, a former state pathologist who has carried out approximately 25000 autopsies.

Botha disputed Saayman's conclusion, saying that determining the time of death through gastric emptying is guesswork, calling it a 'highly controversial and inexact science'.

The trial has been adjourned until May 5.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=968746
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: sadie on April 21, 2014, 08:37:20 AM
Just been catching up on some footage from the trial.  Pistorius at one stage in his cross examination last week responded to Nel that his memory wasn't very good at the moment.  @)(++(*   I suppose that's one excuse for the inconsistencies in his responses.

Thanks for linking to the videos Anna.

With the mental battering he received at the beginning, along with the trauma of the whole thing his memory is unlikely to be good atm.  My bet is that his mind will not stop racing and whirling.

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful; it was used to demean, belittle and totally undermine him before he had started.

If Justice cant be served without such deliberate undermining by the prosecution, then what is the point of so called Justice.  Cos it aint true Justice.



Tin hat on, bunkered down 8(>(( 8()-000(
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 21, 2014, 09:11:17 AM
With the mental battering he received at the beginning, along with the trauma of the whole thing his memory is unlikely to be good atm.  My bet is that his mind will not stop racing and whirling.

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful; it was used to demean, belittle and totally undermine him before he had started.

If Justice cant be served without such deliberate undermining by the prosecution, then what is the point of so called Justice.  Cos it aint true Justice.



Tin hat on, bunkered down 8(>(( 8()-000(

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful;


I watched it all & thought that Mr Nel was pretty soft on him really.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 21, 2014, 04:10:59 PM
With the mental battering he received at the beginning, along with the trauma of the whole thing his memory is unlikely to be good atm.  My bet is that his mind will not stop racing and whirling.

That battering onslaught at the beginning of the cross examinationwas disgraceful; it was used to demean, belittle and totally undermine him before he had started.

If Justice cant be served without such deliberate undermining by the prosecution, then what is the point of so called Justice.  Cos it aint true

Tin hat on, bunkered down 8(>(( 8()-000(


Sadie fancies Oscar! That is the only reason I can imagine for someone mollycoddling an admitted killer who used some of the most vile ammunition in the world!

Don't you get it Sadie? Even if OP's story is true (as if!) he is still guilty of negligent homicide at the very least. The burglar could have been an unarmed young child for all he knew. Pistorius deserves a long prison sentence even if you believe his preposterous concoction to try and explain murdering Reeva in a fit of anger!

I bet you would have a kind word for Myra too!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: sadie on April 21, 2014, 05:33:26 PM

Sadie fancies Oscar! That is the only reason I can imagine for someone mollycoddling an admitted killer who used some of the most vile ammunition in the world!

Don't you get it Sadie? Even if OP's story is true (as if!) he is still guilty of negligent homicide at the very least. The burglar could have been an unarmed young child for all he knew. Pistorius deserves a long prison sentence even if you believe his preposterous concoction to try and explain murdering Reeva in a fit of anger!

I bet you would have a kind word for Myra too!

Sorry to disappoint you Tim.  Nothing about him appeals especially.

I appreciate what you are saying, but in my book, everyone deserves a fair trial.  And thta trial was marred at the very beginning of the prosection cross examination.  Sheer bullying designed to reduce him, and upset him so much that he couldn't think straight.

No-one would be able to think straight after such bullying and after the trauma of what happened. 

It may well be that he is guilty of all charges and if so then he should get his just punishment .... but I defend to the end, everybodies right to a fair trial and that wasn't. imo.  At the very beginning OP was reduced by very dubious bullying means to a gibbering wreck.   

According to my hubby who also thought it alright, some others felt the same as me.  Altho he does at times express some concerns


I dont expect anyone to agree with me, but I had to express my horror at what happened.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 21, 2014, 10:53:03 PM
Sadie, Oscar has been a 'gibbering wreck' throughout the trial; long before he took the stand and throughout his evidence in chief infront of his own council. Many people, myself included, think this is a complete sham.

I do believe Pistorius is mortified and indeed sorry for killing Reeva in a fit of anger. I also believe he is playing up for the court's sympathy. Remember he said on the stand he considers every word he says because quote "his life is on the line".  The same consideration is given to his emotional outbursts in my opinion.

There are reports in the SA press that Pistorius has been taking acting lessons prior to his trial. If true, I am not surprised in the slightest! This is a calculating man trying to get away with murder.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 21, 2014, 10:57:32 PM
Sadie, Oscar has been a 'gibbering wreck' throughout the trial; long before he took the stand and throughout his evidence in chief infront of his own council. Many people, myself included, think this is a complete sham.

I do believe Pistorius is mortified and indeed sorry for killing Reeva in a fit of anger. I also believe he is playing up for the court's sympathy. Remember he said on the stand he considers every word he says because quote "his life is on the line".  The same consideration is given to his emotional outbursts in my opinion.

There are reports in the SA press that Pistorius has been taking acting lessons prior to his trial. If true, I am not surprised in the slightest! This is a calculating man trying to get away with murder.

The problem with having to tell so many lies is that you can't stop little bits of the truth from coming out.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: QC on April 22, 2014, 04:54:55 PM
The problem with having to tell so many lies is that you can't stop little bits of the truth from coming out.

There is after all only one truth, not to hard to remember, as opposed to many lies which are very difficult to remember...... >@@(*&)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 24, 2014, 02:15:14 PM
There is talk that Oscar Pistorius might get the electric chair i..... so he can get around in prison if his legs get stolen!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 24, 2014, 02:22:11 PM
Knock Knock
Who's there?
Bang Bang Bang Bang
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 24, 2014, 02:38:30 PM
Through The Keyhole, South Africa

Milk crate by the fridge
Absence of shoes
Blood all over the bathroom

Whoooooooo lives in a house like this?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 24, 2014, 02:45:30 PM
At least Oscar will get the bottom bunk!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on April 24, 2014, 02:50:02 PM
Oscar gave testimony like he only had one leg on ...... he kept going round in circles!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: steve_trousers on April 26, 2014, 12:11:09 PM
ooohhh well welll well and what do we have here, black talon bullets.... designed to rip tissue to shreds and cause maximum organ damage

whooo would buy bullets like this??

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 03, 2014, 10:22:26 AM
Trial starts again on monday .... 5th. I bet the remaining defence 'experts' due to testify are swotting up big time and dreading their cross examination by Gerrie 'death' Nel!

Let's hope it's not too protracted and justice for Reeva comes soon!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: carlymichelle on May 05, 2014, 08:58:41 AM
oh god his friend is kissing his  ass........
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 05, 2014, 11:39:14 AM
Session 1
Session 2 a long gap in this one

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 05, 2014, 06:58:23 PM
So unprofessional ..... after a 2 week break not to have witnesses ready and waste a half day of court!

I do not see how these two witnesses helped the defence in the slightest. They seemed honest enough although very pro Oscar but their testimony wasn't relevant to guilt or innocence in any way I could determine!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 06, 2014, 11:04:45 AM


And,,,, that's it again! adjourned until thurs 8th may. We will be Lucky if it is finished by xmas at this rate


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 06, 2014, 02:57:59 PM
The defence said they expect to finish there case next tuesday. Then it's just closing arguments from both sides before the judge retires to consider her verdict. Shouldn't be too long now.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 06, 2014, 03:30:51 PM
The defence said they expect to finish there case next tuesday. Then it's just closing arguments from both sides before the judge retires to consider her verdict. Shouldn't be too long now.

Well, lets hope so Tim.
It has all become a bit boring now that all the main evidence has been heard.
 I don't think he will go to prison and if so, not for long, although in my opinion, a very long sentence is what he deserves undoubtedly.
 I really feel for her family, who have gone through so much pain and grief.  8(8-))
 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 06, 2014, 03:50:59 PM

He deserves a long stretch in the slammer, but I have the worrying feeling he might not get one.

That would be seriously unfair to Reeva's family seeing as though they, like the rest of us, know the ba****d is as guilty as sin.

They've had to sit through his BS story and fake emotion. If I was Reeva's dad & Oscar got off lightly, I'm not sure I'd be able to resist putting a few bullets in him. I'd use black tallons n'all.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 06, 2014, 07:01:13 PM
I agree entirely, Pistorius deserves a long stretch in the nastiest slammer in Africa.

I am much more optimistic justice will be done though. I personally think he will get guilty of murder; but surely he must get at least negligent homicide for shooting through a locked door even if he thought it was an intruder. He can get over 5 years for the firearms charges too and up to 15 years for the illegal ammunition!

I think OP will be away for a few decades!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 07, 2014, 02:57:17 PM
Well, lets hope so Tim.
It has all become a bit boring now that all the main evidence has been heard.
 I don't think he will go to prison and if so, not for long, although in my opinion, a very long sentence is what he deserves undoubtedly.
 I really feel for her family, who have gone through so much pain and grief.  8(8-))
 

Thanks for the links which are helping me follow what is happening in court.   8((()*/

It will be interesting to see what the rest of the defence witnesses have to say on Thursday.  I think Mr Nel has corroborated timing of one 'bang' as described by a defence witness with statements made by witnesses for the prosecution.  Which I think adds to the State's case.
I also think he is tring to discredit claims of police 'theft' in his questioning.  Haven't worked out yet where he is going with that one.

Also, I'm not sure just how impressed the judge will have been with the demonstrations of how OP sounded while crying loudly. 

Also it is worth actually seeing and hearing what is going on rather than relying on newspaper reports.

For example, I had formed the opinion that Roger Dixon who testified for the defence was a buffoon, particularly as Mr Nel's cross examination was so disparaging of him and had him squirming.
I think he was just out of his depth, and was being painfully truthful and reported what he had found, which was contrary to the defence case.
Makes one wonder why the defence could not obtain a more experienced 'expert' witness.

The summing up is going to be very interesting.

I agree with the highlighted sentence.
IMO Oscar Pistorius is as guilty as sin, but he will not pay the full price of his crime, I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 07, 2014, 03:08:49 PM
Thanks for the links which are helping me follow what is happening in court.   8((()*/

It will be interesting to see what the rest of the defence witnesses have to say on Thursday.  I think Mr Nel has corroborated timing of one 'bang' as described by a defence witness with statements made by witnesses for the prosecution.  Which I think adds to the State's case.
I also think he is tring to discredit claims of police 'theft' in his questioning.  Haven't worked out yet where he is going with that one.

Also, I'm not sure just how impressed the judge will have been with the demonstrations of how OP sounded while crying loudly. 

Also it is worth actually seeing and hearing what is going on rather than relying on newspaper reports.

For example, I had formed the opinion that Roger Dixon who testified for the defence was a buffoon, particularly as Mr Nel's cross examination was so disparaging of him and had him squirming.
I think he was just out of his depth, and was being painfully truthful and reported what he had found, which was contrary to the defence case.
Makes one wonder why the defence could not obtain a more experienced 'expert' witness.

The summing up is going to be very interesting.

I agree with the highlighted sentence.
IMO Oscar Pistorius is as guilty as sin, but he will not pay the full price of his crime, I hope I am wrong.

You are welcome Brietta.
I think the fact that he kept that particular gun by his bed with these cruel bullets, makes it fairly obvious IMO that this was his prepared and intended weapon against an intruder. That alone is pretty damning, In my book.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 07, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
25 years to life is my guess. I think that is justice.
Anyone else want to guess?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 08, 2014, 12:05:25 PM
1


2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJDyfb_Y-iQ
(cant imbed)

Sorry.....Elections are holding up the coverage....I will update when possible

OR

You can catch up here  LIVE




Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 09, 2014, 12:23:26 PM
 9th May
1

2

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 09, 2014, 07:08:53 PM
I admit to bias against Oscar Pistorius but I think the expert witnesses called by the defence are struggling.

Forensic expert Wollie Wolmarans obviously failed to convince that the sound of shots being fired matched the sound of battering a cricket bat against a door. 
Apparently the “whole exercise was a mishap” because the door moved. 

He also managed to trash the evidence given by Roger Dixon with whom he ‘had a few beers’ after the latter had given evidence?? 

Total farce which can best be summed up by his statement "You can't see me but I'm behind the door" as he demonstrated where he thought Reeva was standing when she was killed.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 10, 2014, 03:07:28 PM
I admit to bias against Oscar Pistorius but I think the expert witnesses called by the defence are struggling.

Forensic expert Wollie Wolmarans obviously failed to convince that the sound of shots being fired matched the sound of battering a cricket bat against a door. 
Apparently the “whole exercise was a mishap” because the door moved. 

He also managed to trash the evidence given by Roger Dixon with whom he ‘had a few beers’ after the latter had given evidence?? 

Total farce which can best be summed up by his statement "You can't see me but I'm behind the door" as he demonstrated where he thought Reeva was standing when she was killed.

I too have to admit being biased against OP as I am convinced he shot Reeva in a fit of anger. I too have been very unimpressed by the defence's so called 'dream team'.

Roger Dixon contradicted Pistorius evidence and was all but humiliated by Nel in cross examination. Wolmarans stated he wouldn't take any advice from Dixon on ballistics .... something Dixon had testified upon at trial. The gun test was a farce. The cricket bat test was a joke. Their experts seemed often confused and did not take proper notes nor make proper reports!

The defence has not had witnesses ready at lease twice; wasting a lot of court time. I heard no testimony that really challenged the prosecution. The only 'smoking gun' on the defence side was the one Pistorius had in his hand as he murdered Reeva.

I thinking Pistorious is wobbling and is about to take a huge fall!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 12, 2014, 08:36:54 AM

2.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 12, 2014, 11:07:28 AM
Thank you Anna as always  8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 12, 2014, 11:28:00 AM
Always welcome Tim

I think they are at lunch now
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 12, 2014, 03:42:05 PM
Always welcome Tim

I think they are at lunch now

I haven't had a chance to review the footage so can anyone who has provide a synopsis of recent events.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 12, 2014, 04:03:16 PM
I haven't had a chance to review the footage so can anyone who has provide a synopsis of recent events.

Just more bumbling from OP's defence in my opinion. Wolmarans finished his unimpressive evidence and stuttered and repeated himself continuously thru his cross examination. Then came the final witness; a psychologist stating OP suffers from an anxiety disorder. She was only brought into the case on 2nd May .... this year!

A last desperate measure!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 12, 2014, 04:12:19 PM
Round ups etc.................I forgot  8-)(--)


Week 7 round up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27346441
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Todays News

Oscar Pistorius has 'anxiety disorder' says psychiatrist
3 hours ago
Oscar Pistorius has had an anxiety disorder since childhood and was "anxious" about violent crime, a psychiatrist has told his murder trial in South Africa.
Merryll Vorster said that the athlete's actions when he shot his girlfriend on Valentine's Day last year "should be seen in context of his anxiety".
The double-amputee Paralympian denies intentionally killing Reeva Steenkamp.
Ms Vorster told the court: "He is certainly remorseful about the events... and has developed a depressive disorder as a consequence of this."
Read more

Merryll Vorster: Pistorius "is certainly remorseful about the events... and has developed a depressive disorder"
Continue reading the main story
South African Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius has had an anxiety disorder since childhood and was "anxious" about violent crime, a psychiatrist has told his murder trial.
His actions when he shot his girlfriend on Valentine's Day last year "should be seen in context of his anxiety," Merryll Vorster said.
The prosecution dramatically asked for him to undergo mental observation.
The double-amputee Paralympian denies intentionally killing Reeva Steenkamp.
'Fight rather than flight'
Continue reading the main story
Analysis Andrew Harding Africa correspondent

This was a day of unexpected drama in courtroom GD, with the possibility of a lengthy delay now hanging uncomfortably in the air.
Speaking in court immediately after the adjournment, Oscar Pistorius told me the prosecution's application to refer him for further psychiatric evaluation was "a joke" and insisted that today's evidence from Dr Merryll Vorster had "gone well".
But the course of this already extended trial now hinges on Judge Masipa's decision - likely on Tuesday - on whether to grant the prosecution's request.
The defence has always maintained that the athlete's disability and vulnerability would play an important role in their case - hence today's expert who diagnosed his "general anxiety disorder". It is now clear Mr Pistorius' team feel Prosecutor Gerrie Nel is "playing games".
But the state believes the psychiatrist's evidence is further proof that the athlete is changing his defence - from putative self-defence, to an accidental shooting, to something now linked to his state of mind.
From what I have gleaned from numerous sources in court, it is likely that Judge Masipa will not grant the prosecution its request, but we shall know for certain only when she announces her decision.
Read more from Andrew
The BBC's Milton Nkosi says it is as if tectonic plates are shifting at the trial as the prosecution moved towards getting permission from the judge for Mr Pistorius to be mentally assessed.
The defence opposed the application before the court adjourned on Monday. It will reconvene on Tuesday.
If the prosecution request is granted, Mr Pistorius may spend up to 30 days in a state mental health institution for observation and assessment of his mental health.
It was expected that the defence would conclude its case by the end of this week - after which both sides would have an opportunity to present their closing arguments.
Mr Pistorius says he accidentally shot Ms Steenkamp through the toilet door in a state of panic, mistaking the 29-year-old model and law graduate for an intruder.
Giving evidence on Monday, Dr Vorster said that Mr Pistorius was more likely to respond to any threat with "fight" rather than "flight".
The anxiety disorder was the result of surgery at the age of 11 months to remove his lower legs, she said, a "traumatic assault" for an infant at that age.
She said that Mr Pistorius felt remorse over Ms Steenkamp's death.
"He feels guilty and has developed a depressive disorder as a result," she said.
Family members of South African Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius attended his trial on Monday
The couple had been dating for just a few months when she was shot dead in 2013
The psychiatrist said that the reactions of Mr Pistorius in the early hours of 14 February 2013 would have been different to that of a "normal, able-bodied person without generalised anxiety disorder".
However, she said that this would not have affected his ability to distinguish between right and wrong and that it was up to the court to decide whether his anxiety disorder - from which he had suffered since childhood - diminished his responsibility.
"I think the generalised anxiety is relevant to the case. But the court will have to decide," she said.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
[His father was] largely absent, and his mother was anxious, sleeping with a firearm under her pillow”
End Quote Merryll Vorster Psychiatrist 'Danger to society'
Dr Vorster said generalised anxiety disorders are not uncommon, and were not signs of mental illness.
Safety measures at his home were "out of proportion" to the threat of crime in South Africa, she said.
She said that Mr Pistorius' parents separated when he was six and his father was not a responsible parent.
"[He was] largely absent, and his mother was anxious, sleeping with a firearm under her pillow," she said.
She said that his mother's death in March 2002 meant that he lost an "emotional attachment figure".
The order and trajectory of bullets that killed Reeva Steenkamp is a key part of the case
Mr Pistorius suffered bouts of anxiety as child because of his parents' separation and his disability, a psychiatrist said State prosecutor Gerrie Nel says that Mr Pistorius shot Reeva Steenkamp dead after a row
State prosecutor Gerrie Nel asked Ms Vorster whether someone with anxiety disorder plus guns would be "a danger to society".
"Yes," she replied.
There are no juries at trials in South Africa, so the athlete's fate will ultimately be decided by Judge Thokozile Masipa, assisted by two assessors.
If found guilty, Mr Pistorius - a national sporting hero dubbed the "blade runner" because of the prosthetic limbs he wears to race - could face life imprisonment.
If he is acquitted of murder, the court must consider an alternative charge of culpable homicide, for which he could receive about 15 years in prison.
INTERACTIVE
Mr Pistorius said in his statement at the start of the trial that he woke in the early hours and walked on his stumps to the balcony, pulled in two fans, closed the sliding door and drew curtains. He said that shortly before he had spoken to Reeva, who was in bed beside him.
He said he rejected prosecution claims that a witness heard arguing coming from the house before the shooting.
2. Bathroom window
×
Mr Pistorius said he heard the bathroom window sliding open and believed that an intruder, or intruders, had entered the bathroom through a window which was not fitted with burglar bars.
"Unbeknown to me, Reeva must have gone to the toilet in the bathroom at the time I brought in the fans," he said.
Mr Pistorius said he approached the bathroom armed with his firearm, to defend himself and his girlfriend, believing Ms Steenkamp was still in bed.
3. Shooting
×
Both sides agree four bullets were fired. Ms Steenkamp was hit three times.
Mr Pistorius said he fired his weapon after hearing a noise in the toilet which he thought was the intruder coming out of the toilet to attack him and Ms Steenkamp.
He said he was in a fearful state, knowing he was on his stumps and unable to run away or properly defend himself.
Mr Pistorius said he rejected claims that he was on his prostheses when he shot at the door.
A witness told the trial she woke to hear a woman screaming and a man shouting for help. She said that after the screams she heard four shots.
4. Bedroom
×
Mr Pistorius said he went back to the bedroom after shooting at the toilet door, still shouting for Reeva. Lifting himself up onto the bed, he felt over to the right hand side of it and noticed Ms Steenkamp was not there.
Mr Pistorius said this was when he realised she could have been in the toilet.
5. Toilet door
×
Mr Pistorius said he went back to the bathroom but the toilet was locked, so he returned to the bedroom, pulled on his prosthetic legs, turned on the lights before bashing in the toilet door with a cricket bat.
Forensics expert Johannes Vermeulen told the court that the height of the marks on the door caused by the cricket bat suggest Mr Pistorius was on his stumps at the time.
6. Emergency calls
×
Mr Pistorius's defence team say he then called security at the gated housing complex and a private paramedic service before carrying Ms Steenkamp downstairs.
A security guard claimed it was the other way round, and he had called Mr Pistorius first after reports of gunfire. However, phone records shown to the court revealed Mr Pistorius called the estate manager at 3:19am, a minute later he called the ambulance service and at 3:21am he called estate security.
A minute later he received an incoming call - estate security calling him back.
According to police phone expert Francois Moller, Mr Pistorius called his friend Justin Divaris a short time later and just after 4:00am he called his
 brother Carl.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27371430
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 12, 2014, 05:26:08 PM

Put Oscar Pistorius under psychiatric observation, prosecutor requests

Gerrie Nel seeks study of Pistorius's mental health after psychiatrist's testimony for defence about athlete's anxiety

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/oscar-pistorius-psychiatric-observation-prosecutor
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 13, 2014, 11:48:03 AM
1

2
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 13, 2014, 12:12:34 PM
Tomorrow morn (wed) we find out if Pistorius is going to be refereed for 30 days for psychiatric observation because the shrink says he suffers from an anxiety disorder!

This is ridiculous; at no stage has the defence claimed any diminished responsibility. OP doesn't want to claim any disorder and until the shrink piped up, no witness or evidence suggested any mental defect. The defence should be able to state they do not claim any psychiatric disorder and if they lose the case, this will not constitute any part of an appeal!

I understand the state is covering all bases but imo if the defence doesn't claim it, the court should not impose it!

 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 13, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
Tomorrow morn (wed) we find out if Pistorius is going to be refereed for 30 days for psychiatric observation because the shrink says he suffers from an anxiety disorder!

This is ridiculous; at no stage has the defence claimed any diminished responsibility. OP doesn't want to claim any disorder and until the shrink piped up, no witness or evidence suggested any mental defect. The defence should be able to state they do not claim any psychiatric disorder and if they lose the case, this will not constitute any part of an appeal!

I understand the state is covering all bases but imo if the defence doesn't claim it, the court should not impose it!

 

I felt this mental health thing might happen, when Dewani was detained in a hospital and could possibly be deemed unfit to stand trial. There is no other fall back now for OP! IMO
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 13, 2014, 04:17:15 PM
I've just been able to finish watching the videos of the trial so far, and think the excellent Dr Vorster was only called because the case for the defence is such a shambles and the evidence of witnesses called has been consistently shredded.
The argument between defence and prosecution was fascinating, although it took some concentration to follow.

I think the state prosecutor is being so insistent about referral because of the precedent he quoted of which he has personal experience.  I think if the judge allows his request the court will be treating OP fairly without compromising justice for Reeva.
It is my opinion that he had to be suffering from some sort of insanity or be under the influence of some powerful hallucinogenic drug - which was never suggested - to do what he did.

It will be interesting to see how the judge deals with it.

It is my understanding that Mr Nel wants to leave no room for appeal to a higher court, and perhaps having the  decision of the present court overturned.  The referral will eliminate that ground for appeal at least.
Is that correct?


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 13, 2014, 11:17:49 PM
I've just been able to finish watching the videos of the trial so far, and think the excellent Dr Foster was only called because the case for the defence is such a shambles and the evidence of witnesses called has been consistently shredded.
The argument between defence and prosecution was fascinating, although it took some concentration to follow.

I think the state prosecutor is being so insistent about referral because of the precedent he quoted of which he has personal experience.  I think if the judge allows his request the court will be treating OP fairly without compromising justice for Reeva.
It is my opinion that he had to be suffering from some sort of insanity or be under the influence of some powerful hallucinogenic drug - which was never suggested - to do what he did.

It will be interesting to see how the judge deals with it.

It is my understanding that Mr Nel wants to leave no room for appeal to a higher court, and perhaps having the  decision of the present court overturned.  The referral will eliminate that ground for appeal at least.
Is that correct?

My understanding is you are correct. Nel is covering all bases and I think the judge will refer Pistorius to cover her own arse ..... I hope he doesn't get referred but fear he will.

Interesting your point about drugs. OP left Reeva basically dying in his foyer to go upstairs supposedly to get Reeva's ID. I have often wondered if he was actually flushing away either performance enhancing or recreational drugs!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 14, 2014, 08:01:22 AM
My understanding is you are correct. Nel is covering all bases and I think the judge will refer Pistorius to cover her own arse ..... I hope he doesn't get referred but fear he will.

Interesting your point about drugs. OP left Reeva basically dying in his foyer to go upstairs supposedly to get Reeva's ID. I have often wondered if he was actually flushing away either performance enhancing or recreational drugs!

No, the bog bowl was full of Reeva's blood & they also fished a bullet cartridge out of it.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 14, 2014, 08:40:24 AM
No, the bog bowl was full of Reeva's blood & they also fished a bullet cartridge out of it.

Very true spammy! Thanks.
Although I imagine a biggish house like that had another loo downstairs. He could have brought it down and used that one ..... pure speculation of course!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 14, 2014, 10:54:34 AM
Many thanks for the updates guys.  I can't believe this latest stuff alleging some psychiatric disorder has only now been suggested.  Oscar undoubtedly has had issues in his childhood over the amputations and losing his mother but these must not be used as excuses for committing murder.

Nel is brilliant, the defence appear to be in total disarray. Nel's exceptional experience is beginning to shine through.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 14, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
Many thanks for the updates guys.  I can't believe this latest stuff alleging some psychiatric disorder has only now been suggested.  Oscar undoubtedly has had issues in his childhood over the amputations and losing his mother but these must not be used as excuses for committing murder.

Nel is brilliant, the defence appear to be in total disarray. Nel's exceptional experience is beginning to shine through.

I agree John, Nel is a fantastic advocate.

They say the wheels of justice turn slowly.

I can't believe the judge added Pistorius should be assessed as an out patient so the poor killer isn't locked up for a month!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 14, 2014, 11:17:01 AM
Looks like Oscar is on his way to psychiatric evaluation of this alleged anxiety disorder. Point is wouldn't he be suffering from some sort of stress disorder now after what he did and the trial etc?  How the hell can they possibly say he had a disorder BEFORE he shot Reeva?  Totally bizarre!

ETA  I missed the bit about being an out patient. That's in case he doesn't injure someone else. Imagine if he did and him on a murder charge. Oh the repercussions!!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 14, 2014, 11:18:41 AM
Did anyone notice a very striking blonde sitting on the bench in front of Oscar yesterday. I thought it was quite eerie; she looked just like Reeva!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 14, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
Did anyone notice a very striking blonde sitting on the bench in front of Oscar yesterday. I thought it was quite eerie; she looked just like Reeva!

She is the defence stenographer and yes, I thought that too.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 14, 2014, 11:46:54 AM

Sorry for delay
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 14, 2014, 11:56:45 AM
Sterling work Anna, much appreciated. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 14, 2014, 12:53:36 PM
Sterling work Ann, much appreciated. 8((()*/

I assume you mean "Anna" and if so, I am glad to be of help, you are welcome
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 14, 2014, 12:59:07 PM
Mr Pistorius denies intentionally killing his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day last year.
He says he accidentally shot her through the toilet door in a state of panic, mistaking the 29-year-old model and law graduate for an intruder.
Our correspondent says that Mr Pistorius could be evaluated for a minimum of 30 days at a psychiatric faculty as a result of the evaluation order.
Mr Pistorius's uncle, Arnold, welcomed Judge Thokozile Masipa's "thorough" ruling and says it gives family "confidence" in the justice system.

He said that he was fully confident of the judge's commitment to a fair trial.


Mr Nel said that the disorder diagnosis left him with no choice but to apply for an evaluation because the condition might have affected Mr Pistorius' behaviour on the night he killed Ms Steenkamp.
Legal experts say that the case may well hinge on the judge's understanding of the athlete's state of mind when he pulled the trigger.
They say the prosecution is keen to show that the defence keeps changing its reasons why Mr Pistorius fired his gun - from putative self-defence, to accidental shooting, and now to something linked to his anxiety disorder.
If found guilty of murder, Mr Pistorius could face life imprisonment. If he is acquitted of that charge, the court will consider an alternative charge of culpable homicide, for which he could receive about 15 years in prison.
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74840000/jpg/_74840538_022240125-1.jpg)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27405303

I think that anyone not suffering anxiety after a killing someone and then a enduring lengthy trial, would be unstable.
They have got it “A… about face“. Does he look anxious? 

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 14, 2014, 01:34:30 PM
It's like Shrien Dewani, of course he is depressed he got caught for murder! Of course OP is anxious; he faces life in prison on stumps and his defence has been quite appalling!

What I don't understand is how the defence has been allowed to tailor their witnesses and evidence to what ever has been happening during the trial. The shrink was only instructed and interviewed OP after he had testified. The emotional support woman only came forward last week. Walmarrans was back at Oscar's house last week doing tests based upon court testimony.

It's like 'rent-a-witness' depending on how the trial is going! It's also a tacit admission that Roger Dixon and OP himself did awful jobs up on the stand!

The OP defence 'dream team' is nearly as incompetent as those jokers at Bamber's last failed CCRC appeal!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 15, 2014, 09:50:21 AM
I've been watching Oscar's cross examination again.

It's interesting watching the reactions of Captain Chris Mangena, when Oscar tries to give his versions & Nel catches him out. Mr Mangena has these funny little smirks on his face as he listens to Oscar squirming.

If you watch Reeva's family you can see her Auntie muttering under her breath, at one point I'm sure I saw her muttering 'bullshit'.

I know the judge stressed that this isn't entertainment.

I disagree, it's the best courtroom drama I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 15, 2014, 10:33:47 AM
I've been watching Oscar's cross examination again.

It's interesting watching the reactions of Captain Chris Mangena, when Oscar tries to give his versions & Nel catches him out. Mr Mangena has these funny little smirks on his face as he listens to Oscar squirming.

If you watch Reeva's family you can see her Auntie muttering under her breath, at one point I'm sure I saw her muttering 'bullshit'.

I know the judge stressed that this isn't entertainment.

I disagree, it's the best courtroom drama I have ever seen.

You obviously didn't watch the Jodi Arias trial then! That bitch was on the stand for 18 straight days and the cross examination was riveting! Juan Martinez is another bulldog of a prosecutor and he tore Arias to shreds. Have a look!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Muqjj4B_9Kg

Becareful it's addictive!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 15, 2014, 03:52:09 PM
I've been watching Oscar's cross examination again.

It's interesting watching the reactions of Captain Chris Mangena, when Oscar tries to give his versions & Nel catches him out. Mr Mangena has these funny little smirks on his face as he listens to Oscar squirming.

If you watch Reeva's family you can see her Auntie muttering under her breath, at one point I'm sure I saw her muttering 'bullshit'.

I know the judge stressed that this isn't entertainment.

I disagree, it's the best courtroom drama I have ever seen.

I am very ashamed to admit that I agree.
I have found the whole process compelling ... despite the terrible events which have brought us here.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 15, 2014, 04:22:37 PM
There's along way to go yet, before a verdict is reached. I Just hope its over before Christmas .
That heartbroken family need completion  8(8-))

This article says that he has already been sent for evaluation, but I believe the decision as to outpatient or admittance for a month, will be announced on Tuesday

Excerpt:=
Oscar Pistorius: why is the trial facing a 'significant' delay?

Athlete sent away for 30-day psychiatric evaluation but murder trial could be delayed even longer
LAST UPDATED AT 12:32 ON Wed 14 May 2014
==
OSCAR PISTORIUS is to be sent for a 30-day psychiatric evaluation in a state-run mental health institution, potentially causing a "significant delay" to his murder trial.
Judge Thokozile Masipa today granted a request from the prosecution that the athlete should undergo a proper psychiatric enquiry. It comes after defence witness Dr Merryll Vorster diagnosed Pistorius with 'generalised anxiety disorder'.
Vorster did not think he suffered with a mental illness, but conceded that Pistorius's ability to act in accordance with his understanding of right and wrong was affected by the disorder.
She said that his increased fear of crime, physical vulnerability and anxiety disorder may have affected his "flight or fight" response on the night that he shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.
Judge Masipa told the court this morning that evidence from Vorster, who only met with Pistorius twice, cannot replace a proper psychiatric enquiry. "A proper enquiry would ensure the accused receives a fair trial," she said.
The evaluation will need to determine whether or not Pistorius suffers from a "mental illness or mental defect" that makes him incapable of appreciating the "wrongfulness" of his act or of "acting in accordance with an appreciation of the wrongfulness of his act".
Not only will the observation take around 30 days, the waiting lists for inpatient treatment in Pretoria are reported to be several months long, which would cause a "significant delay" to the murder trial, says The Guardian.
Masipa has agreed with the defence that outpatient treatment would be preferable for Pistorius, as the aim of the referral is "not to punish the accused". This could reduce the delay, but experts are also expected to spend a further 30 days compiling their reports, meaning that the minimum delay is likely to be two months.
The Guardian notes that some believe Pistorius's defence has slipped up in calling Vorster as a witness and introducing the diagnosis of generalised anxiety disorder at such a late stage in the trial. Prosecutor Gerrie Nel yesterday accused the defence of changing its plea from putative self-defence to a psychiatric disorder.
The court will adjourn until Tuesday, when the full ruling on the referral will be given.


Oscar Pistorius 'lonely' and 'probably shouldn't own a gun'
13 May
OSCAR PISTORIUS was described as "lonely" today as he waits to find out if he will have to spend four weeks under observation in a psychiatric facility.
The athlete – on trial for killing his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp – has been diagnosed with 'general anxiety disorder' by forensic psychiatrist Dr Meryl Vorster, who has been giving evidence in court.
Vorster has said the disorder may have played a role "to a degree" in his actions on the night of the shooting on 14 February last year.
Pistorius had friends "to avoid feeling lonely", she told the court. "They were not friends he could confide in." His sexual relationships tended to be short, she said, adding that he coped socially, but this was "superficial".
People suffering from the disorder are not "dangerous", said Vorster, but they should "probably not have firearms". She added: "That makes that person at risk of being involved in violent activities."
Vorster said that she would not expect Pistorius to remember exactly what happened at the time of the shooting because of the anxiety disorder and the fear he felt. But she said that Pistorius was still able to know what he was doing.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel has argued that Pistorius should go for a 30-day psychiatric evaluation and suggested that the defence team may be using the Vorster's testimony as a fall-back defence.
He questioned why Vorster had been called in at such a late stage to evaluate Pistorius, reports The Guardian. "We will argue that the accused was not the most impressive witness," he said. "Now we have a witness being called by the defence saying that a psychiatric disorder may play a role in his actions... there should be red lights going off."
The defence and prosecution have disagreed on whether or not the disorder can be classed as a mental illness under South African law. The defence says it is not and claims there is "no merit" in the prosecution's application to have Pistorius undergo further tests.

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/oscar-pistorius/53387/oscar-pistorius-denies-sinister-remark-reeva-s-friend#ixzz31nMcVc5H
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 15, 2014, 04:25:17 PM
Nothing shameful in finding live court proceedings fascinating imo. I would pay good money to have watched the Bamber trial.

I think we are all watching to see justice being done.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 15, 2014, 05:04:36 PM
Nothing shameful in finding live court proceedings fascinating imo. I would pay good money to have watched the Bamber trial.

I think we are all watching to see justice being done.

I wanna see him shot with one of them bullets he used on Reeva.

Not a fatal wound, just a really nasty hip explosion like he did to her.

A test to hear if he would scream like a girl or not & if it would be possible to hear him over the sound of the gunshot.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 15, 2014, 06:02:15 PM
I don't think the punishment will fit the Crime, in this case!

  When I first watched, it upset me to think ,that such a young innocent looking lad, could do such a thing and at an age similar to my grandchildren.

 I changed my mind after being brave enough to watch a bit of the court action.....He looks too detached from it all and too "Goody Goody" to be real, but the evidence proves otherwise, IMO.

I wouldn't want him shot Spam, but a sensible sentence would be satisfying to a lot of people.

 If he is deemed unfit to continue the trial and a plea of "diminished responsibility" or "temporary insanity" is introduced, what will happen to him? Will he be punished at all? Would he be safe around other people with his "Fight not flight" reactions?  >@@(*&)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 15, 2014, 07:02:31 PM
I don't think the punishment will fit the Crime, in this case!

  When I first watched, it upset me to think ,that such a young innocent looking lad, could do such a thing and at an age similar to my grandchildren.

 I changed my mind after being brave enough to watch a bit of the court action.....He looks too detached from it all and too "Goody Goody" to be real, but the evidence proves otherwise, IMO.

I wouldn't want him shot Spam, but a sensible sentence would be satisfying to a lot of people.

 If he is deemed unfit to continue the trial and a plea of "diminished responsibility" or "temporary insanity" is introduced, what will happen to him? Will he be punished at all? Would he be safe around other people with his "Fight not flight" reactions?  >@@(*&)

Difficult to know what would happen. He has a vicious temper and goes into a rage; in my opinion that makes him a nasty bit of work but not mentally ill.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 15, 2014, 07:04:57 PM
I don't think the punishment will fit the Crime, in this case!

  When I first watched, it upset me to think ,that such a young innocent looking lad, could do such a thing and at an age similar to my grandchildren.

 I changed my mind after being brave enough to watch a bit of the court action.....He looks too detached from it all and too "Goody Goody" to be real, but the evidence proves otherwise, IMO.

I wouldn't want him shot Spam, but a sensible sentence would be satisfying to a lot of people.

 If he is deemed unfit to continue the trial and a plea of "diminished responsibility" or "temporary insanity" is introduced, what will happen to him? Will he be punished at all? Would he be safe around other people with his "Fight not flight" reactions?  >@@(*&)

I don’t even know what the law might be in Britain never mind South Africa. 

I imagine if the murder trial could not continue because of diminished responsibility there would be a requirement for him to be detained in a psychiatric hospital where he could be treated. 

I think there must be some sanction or his defence would have led with this rather than the self defence plea they submitted.  Or maybe they were hoping for a 'get out of jail free card' because home invasion is a great fear in SA as can be seen by the number of gated and security guarded compounds there are.

Agreed, Anna, I don't think he is going to pay the full price for his actions.
 
I am convinced he murdered Reeva and I do not know what sort of aberration allowed him to fire those bullets at her.

Just need to wait and see what the judge decides about the evaluation.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 15, 2014, 07:09:56 PM
Difficult to know what would happen. He has a vicious temper and goes into a rage; in my opinion that makes him a nasty bit of work but not mentally ill.

I agree with most of that ... but I think he is insane or suffering from some condition that would allow him to do what he did.

I have no sympathy for him at all ... only for the life he has taken and the lives he has ruined.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 15, 2014, 08:50:32 PM
I agree with most of that ... but I think he is insane or suffering from some condition that would allow him to do what he did.

I have no sympathy for him at all ... only for the life he has taken and the lives he has ruined.

There was a pause between the first shot which hit her in the hip & the remaining 3 shots.

She screamed in agony, no doubt, when that bullet hit her, it shattered her hip.

She fell on top of the magazine rack, he aimed towards it.

She had time to put her hands up in a defensive position when he then amputated her arm and stuck one in her head.

Evil c..t.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 16, 2014, 12:17:55 AM
Anything less than 20 years actual prison time will be a travesty of justice. Personally I would give him 35 years.

I am still confident justice will be done. The prosecution has been compelling and the defence did not make the slightest dent in the case! OP himself was a terrible witness as were his so called experts!

I hope I am right to be optimistic.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 16, 2014, 02:48:29 PM
Difficult to know what would happen. He has a vicious temper and goes into a rage; in my opinion that makes him a nasty bit of work but not mentally ill.

I agree Tim, but no doubt the legal terms will be very different.
If it is deemed a mental illness, it could cover every illegal action he has committed................

1.He  purchased an illegal gun .
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

2. He purchased illegal Ammo.
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

3. He kept the illegal gun loaded under his bed.
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

So does the above not prove that he intended to use that gun ,if necessary? and is it not a premeditated measure against intruders ? How could that be deemed accidental?


Or have I totally misunderstood the charges and evidence?

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 16, 2014, 02:55:57 PM
I agree Tim, but no doubt the legal terms will be very different.
If it is deemed a mental illness, it could cover every illegal action he has committed................

1.He  purchased an illegal gun .
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

2. He purchased illegal Ammo.
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

3. He kept the illegal gun loaded under his bed.
Was he suffering Anxiety disorder then?

So does the above not prove that he intended to use that gun ,if necessary? and is it not a premeditated measure against intruders ? How could that be deemed accidental?


Or have I totally misunderstood the charges and evidence?

The pistol was held legally, Anna. The ammo for it, though disgustingly lethal, was legal too. He had ammo in his safe that he was not licensed for so that was held illegally.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on May 16, 2014, 03:02:21 PM
The pistol was held legally, Anna. The ammo for it, though disgustingly lethal, was legal too. He had ammo in his safe that he was not licensed for so that was held illegally.

Thank you Tim
  I thought that I read somewhere, that the gun and bullets were banned a long time ago.
Is it legal in SA to keep a loaded gun by your bed?

Aah this is what I misread ...

Oscar Pistorius pleaded not guilty on charges laid against him regarding the murder of his model girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine’s Day last year.He also pleaded not guilty to two charges relating to the discharge of a firearm in a public place and one charge of the illegal possession of ammunition.

(http://rekordeast.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/85/2014/03/1085fda4-423x257.jpg?5a6f64)

picci added
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on May 16, 2014, 06:01:35 PM
Does anyone think that this is all going to end up in a soft option?  A few months in some sort of institution and out he will come, a reformed character.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on May 16, 2014, 06:23:20 PM
Does anyone think that this is all going to end up in a soft option?  A few months in some sort of institution and out he will come, a reformed character.

I don't John. I think OP's sentence will be harsh. The black judge slapping down the Boer sporting hero!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 17, 2014, 09:40:30 AM

Check out Oscar's official website.

http://oscarpistorius.com/

No pictures of Reeva I see.

I wonder if his uncle & co , having sat through all the evidence thus far, still have 'every confidence as a family that when the world has heard the full evidence that this will prove to be a terrible and tragic accident'.

I see he has messages of support from people who believe him. Jeeesus wept, who are these people?

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on May 17, 2014, 12:02:36 PM
Does anyone think that this is all going to end up in a soft option?  A few months in some sort of institution and out he will come, a reformed character.

I think he will 'do time' although perhaps not in prison and certainly not for the length of time he should.  I think the prosecution have made such a good job of it that it could not be otherwise.  The case for the defence was mince, probably because IMO there is no defence.

IMO "m'lady" is nobody's fool ... I think she will stick to the letter of the law as she has been at pains to do throughout the trial ... if she has left grounds for appeal I think they will be hard to find.

I sincerely hope there is no soft option for him ... he really needs to be seen to pay for what he has done.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 03, 2014, 01:17:01 PM
The trial recommences after a 4-week break to allow for psychiatric testing of the defendant.

Monday, 30 June 2014 - Session 1




Monday, 30 June 2014 - Session 2




Monday, 30 June 2014 - Session 3




Monday, 30 June 2014 - Session 4

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 03, 2014, 01:31:14 PM
Tuesday, 1 July 2014 - Session 1




Tuesday, 1 July 2014 - Session 2




Tuesday, 1 July 2014 - Session 3

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 03, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
Wednesday, 2 July 2014 - Session 1




Wednesday, 2 July 2014 - Session 2




Wednesday, 2 July 2014 - Session 3




Wednesday, 2 July 2014 - Session 4

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 03, 2014, 01:54:00 PM
Thursday, 3 July 2014 - Session 1




Thursday, 3 July 2014 - Session 2




Thursday, 3 July 2014 - Session 3




Thursday, 3 July 2014 - Session 4

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 05, 2014, 04:50:41 PM
An interesting shot of the courtroom from the front.

(http://i.imgur.com/q4vdBX5.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/gIFNHE6.jpg?1)

Defence attorney Kenny Oldwage addresses the court on Thursday.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 05, 2014, 05:20:51 PM
Professor says Oscar Pistorius' disability explains his reaction in intruder theory: 'If one cannot flee the other option is to fight'

University of Cape Town professor Wayne Derman testified Thursday that the Blade Runner, a double-amputee, must choose a “fight” over “flight” response because ‘the individual has no lower legs,’ and that could be why the athlete took a gun to confront who he thought was an intruder, but instead ended up shooting and killing his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

(http://i.imgur.com/kPuyeT7.jpg?1-Oscar_Pistorius-UK_Justice_Forum)

Oscar Pistorius (left) speaks with members of his legal team.


For Oscar Pistorius, it was fight or flight.

And because he’s a double-amputee, the South African sprinter chose fight when he thought a burglar was in his bathroom and accidentally killed girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

So claimed a University of Cape Town professor Thursday who has worked with Pistorius for years.

“In this context fleeing is not an option, the individual has no lower legs,” Wayne Derman testified at Pistorius’ murder trial. “If one cannot flee the other option is to fight.”

When Pistorius heard a noise coming from inside the toilet cubicle, he opened fire because “he was aiming to neutralize the threat,” Derman testified.

Prosecutor Gerrie Nel contends a furious Pistorius deliberately neutralized his lover after a Valentine’s Day 2013 fight by firing four shots through a bathroom door.

Pistorius insists it was an accident and that he loved the 29-year-old bikini model.

(http://i.imgur.com/9aMBUKg.jpg?1)

Oscar Pistorius during his trial on Thursday. 


While Nel grilled Derman and questioned his credentials, the 27-year-old athlete sat clenching his teeth in the Pretoria courtroom.

It wasn’t clear if Pistorius was angry with Nel — or with Derman’s depiction of him as a “paradox” who is one of the fastest men in the world and also “significantly disabled.”

“Although he loathes to be pitied in any way, the hard truth is that he does not have lower legs,” said Derman.

Pistorius’ “disability never sleeps.”

“It’s there when you go to sleep at night and it's there when you wake up in the morning,” the professor said. “It affects nearly every aspect of your life.”

Born without fibulas, Pistorius was 11-months-old when his legs were amputated halfway between his knees and ankles. He uses distinctive scythe-like prosthetics to compete and regular prosthetics to get around.

www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/oscar-pistorius-choose-fight-flight-article-1.1853596


Court adjourned until 9.30am on Monday when Professor Derwent will continue to give evidence.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 05, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
The problem with that theory is Pistorius could have escaped either on his stumps or with his legs on! There was a 5m passage from his room to the bathroom but there was also a door out of the bedroom he could have used. Opening that door would also have set off the house alarm too!

Pistorius's story just doesn't stand up to the facts!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on July 06, 2014, 02:56:31 PM
Monday, 7 July 2014 - Session 1




Monday, 7 July 2014 - Session 2




Monday, 7 July 2014 - Session 3




Monday, 7 July 2014 - Session 4

Not available at this time.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 08, 2014, 09:35:01 AM
Another month! Why on earth do they need a month to prepare closing arguments!

Scheduled for 7 & 8 Aug!

And then another estimated month for the judge to reach her verdict! What a joke!


Tuesday, 8 July 2014 - Morning session only

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Andrea on July 08, 2014, 10:24:39 PM
I would rather have Oscars defence than Brazils, 6-0! Hammering so far!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: scipio_usmc on July 10, 2014, 04:42:17 AM
Professor says Oscar Pistorius' disability explains his reaction in intruder theory: 'If one cannot flee the other option is to fight'

University of Cape Town professor Wayne Derman testified Thursday that the Blade Runner, a double-amputee, must choose a “fight” over “flight” response because ‘the individual has no lower legs,’ and that could be why the athlete took a gun to confront who he thought was an intruder, but instead ended up shooting and killing his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

(http://i.imgur.com/kPuyeT7.jpg?1-Oscar_Pistorius-UK_Justice_Forum)

Oscar Pistorius (left) speaks with members of his legal team.


For Oscar Pistorius, it was fight or flight.

And because he’s a double-amputee, the South African sprinter chose fight when he thought a burglar was in his bathroom and accidentally killed girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

So claimed a University of Cape Town professor Thursday who has worked with Pistorius for years.

“In this context fleeing is not an option, the individual has no lower legs,” Wayne Derman testified at Pistorius’ murder trial. “If one cannot flee the other option is to fight.”

When Pistorius heard a noise coming from inside the toilet cubicle, he opened fire because “he was aiming to neutralize the threat,” Derman testified.

Was it reasonable for someone in his position to believe there was a threat at all let alone a threat to his life?  Could someone in the bathroom threaten his life?

Was he home alone?  No his girl was wih him.  Any reasonable person would think that it is their girl in the bathroom when she is not next to him and someone is in the bathroom.  At minimum one should check before opening fire.

Was there access from outside to get into the bathroom?  No, someone could only get into the bathroom by being in the bedroom first.

Who would break into a bedroom and then go burglarize a bathroom?  So that is even less reason to think it could be someone who broke in. 

What if is was a kid who broke in who was unarmed could such person be a threat to his life?  Can he just blow away anyone even in the back as they are running from him?

Hearing noise and shooting someone through a door is reckless. But he lied about how high she shot and pausing and other things.  It is not credible he forgot she was with him and he thought it was someone who was threatening his life. The guy deserves to rot in prison for murder not simply manslaughter.  If he is truly as paranoid as he claims he is a threat to ordinary people and doesn't deserve to live in society anyway.  But his claims are not credible at all.     
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 10, 2014, 01:55:32 PM
Was it reasonable for someone in his position to believe there was a threat at all let alone a threat to his life?  Could someone in the bathroom threaten his life?

Was he home alone?  No his girl was wih him.  Any reasonable person would think that it is their girl in the bathroom when she is not next to him and someone is in the bathroom.  At minimum one should check before opening fire.

Was there access from outside to get into the bathroom?  No, someone could only get into the bathroom by being in the bedroom first.

Who would break into a bedroom and then go burglarize a bathroom?  So that is even less reason to think it could be someone who broke in. 

What if is was a kid who broke in who was unarmed could such person be a threat to his life?  Can he just blow away anyone even in the back as they are running from him?

Hearing noise and shooting someone through a door is reckless. But he lied about how high she shot and pausing and other things.  It is not credible he forgot she was with him and he thought it was someone who was threatening his life. The guy deserves to rot in prison for murder not simply manslaughter.  If he is truly as paranoid as he claims he is a threat to ordinary people and doesn't deserve to live in society anyway.  But his claims are not credible at all.   

Oscar's contention is the burglar entered the bathroom through the bathroom window having climbed up to the window by ladder. Totally improbable of course but slightly more plausible that he entered the bathroom having passed by Oscar and Reeva through the bedroom.

Not that I believe a word of Oscar's story of course!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on July 10, 2014, 07:15:17 PM
I can already picture the smirk on his face when he gets his light sentence. I hope I am wrong!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 10, 2014, 09:50:37 PM
I can already picture the smirk on his face when he gets his light sentence. I hope I am wrong!

Maybe Abs although I have a feeling he is going to get what he deserves. Life in prison minimum 25 years is my guess!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on July 10, 2014, 10:11:30 PM
Maybe Abs although I have a feeling he is going to get what he deserves. Life in prison minimum 25 years is my guess!

Let´s hope so, I just worry a little - because I think his defence was good (even though I don´t buy their stories!), and the sarcastic tone of the prosecutor, which can be vary off-putting.
We saw that in the Casey Anthony case. Jeff Ashton had that tone - and Jose Baez was soft spoken and polite. Those things shouldn´t matter, but I think they do.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 11, 2014, 12:16:31 AM
Let´s hope so, I just worry a little - because I think his defence was good (even though I don´t buy their stories!), and the sarcastic tone of the prosecutor, which can be vary off-putting.
We saw that in the Casey Anthony case. Jeff Ashton had that tone - and Jose Baez was soft spoken and polite. Those things shouldn´t matter, but I think they do.

I think the defence advocates are good on their feet but the defence as a coherent story has been a joke. Pistorius was a terrible witness in his own defence too. Although Gerrie Nell is a bit too aggressive at times, I think he has done an excellent job is dismantling the defence's various excuses for OP!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on July 12, 2014, 08:10:43 PM
Court will resume on Thursday and Friday, 7th and 8th August at 9.30am to hear final arguments on behalf of both the prosecution and the defence. 
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 12, 2014, 09:15:04 PM
Court will resume on Thursday and Friday, 7th and 8th August at 9.30am to hear final arguments on behalf of both the prosecution and the defence.

Then the judge and her 2 assessors are expected to take a month to reach a verdict! So slow!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: puglove on July 12, 2014, 09:24:09 PM
Then the judge and her 2 assessors are expected to take a month to reach a verdict! So slow!

Too bloody slow. I was reading an interview with Reeva's mum this week, it broke my heart. She was such a lovely girl, with so much promise. And he treated her so badly, before he destroyed her. I hope the arrogant little brat gets life. Without his stupid boingy legs.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 01:28:36 AM
Closing arguments begin today 7th Aug ... it's the end game now!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Andrea on August 07, 2014, 10:11:55 AM
Closing arguments begin today 7th Aug ... it's the end game now!

What do you think the verdict will be, Tim?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: sika on August 07, 2014, 12:42:49 PM
He's had it!  He's going down.  Too many holes in his story.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 01:23:25 PM
What do you think the verdict will be, Tim?

Who knows Andi but I tend to agree with Sika, OP is going down! The SA experts think it will be murder and minimum 15 years but I think it will be premeditated murder min. 25 years! Plus another 5 years perhaps for the firearm charges.

I am optimistic justice will be done and the judge does have a rep for handing out stiff sentences. Oscar literally doesn't have a leg to stand on!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 07, 2014, 01:34:19 PM
Sorry for the unavoidable absence.......So pleased the video diary was kept going  8@??)(

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 01:43:54 PM
Welcome back Anna and thanks for posting the vids again .... what do you think the verdict will be?
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 07, 2014, 01:51:47 PM
Welcome back Anna and thanks for posting the vids again .... what do you think the verdict will be?

Thank you Tim  ?{)(**
  I think it will be, guilty of manslaughter... by diminished responsibility due to his state of "Clinical anxiety" at the time of the killing.
  Deserves to be first degree murder though! IMO.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 03:13:14 PM
Thank you Tim  ?{)(**
  I think it will be, guilty of manslaughter... by diminished responsibility due to his state of "Clinical anxiety" at the time of the killing.
  Deserves to be first degree murder though! IMO.

But OP spent a month being assessed for any psychological impairments at the time of the 'murder' and both defense and prosecution have accepted the diagnosis that OP didn't suffer from any disorder!

 8-)(--)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 07, 2014, 03:28:56 PM
But OP spent a month being assessed for any psychological impairments at the time of the 'murder' and both defense and prosecution have accepted the diagnosis that OP didn't suffer from any disorder!

 8-)(--)

Sorry Tim,
 I missed that, still trying to get my head round being home again.
If the illness has been dismissed then it has to be murder. Surely not accidental killing.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
Sorry Tim,
 I missed that, still trying to get my head round being home again.
If the illness has been dismissed then it has to be murder. Surely not accidental killing.

My understanding is there are 3 possible verdicts other than not guilty:

Culpable homicide: sentence at judge's discretion.
Murder: min. 15 years
Premed. murder: min. 25 years

I am not sure but I believe the judge/assessors can set terms above the minimums as they see fit.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 07, 2014, 04:55:35 PM
My understanding is there are 3 possible verdicts other than not guilty:

Culpable homicide: sentence at judge's discretion.
Murder: min. 15 years
Premed. murder: min. 25 years

I am not sure but I believe the judge/assessors can set terms above the minimums as they see fit.

1st degree premeditated, would be good, but I fear it will be a lesser sentence.
........................................
Reeva's Mum looks exhausted, if not ill with it all.................Poor Lady  8(8-))
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 07, 2014, 06:39:53 PM
1st degree premeditated, would be good, but I fear it will be a lesser sentence.
........................................
Reeva's Mum looks exhausted, if not ill with it all.................Poor Lady  8(8-))

I should have said murder & premed murder 15/25 years minimums are both life sentences with those years before he is eligible for parole!

I agree Reeva's parents both look drawn .... I do hope OP's sentence does give them some closure.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 07, 2014, 09:06:50 PM
I should have said murder & premed murder 15/25 years minimums are both life sentences with those years before he is eligible for parole!

I agree Reeva's parents both look drawn .... I do hope OP's sentence does give them some closure.

I'm sure it will always haunt them, but god willing, his eventual  punishment will ease the pain and grief
they are suffering right now.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 08, 2014, 11:02:40 AM
OMG the defense is being so pedantic in picking out micro inconsistences in the different neighbours testimony about what they saw and heard the morning stumpy killed Reeva! Roux is basically calling Dr. Stipp a liar .... the very Doctor who went to OP's house and tried to save Reeva's life!

Sometimes defense attoirneys have a horrible job to do!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 08, 2014, 11:44:18 AM
7 aug 2014 closing arguments
session 1


session 2

news update

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 08, 2014, 11:49:30 AM
8th Aug 2014  final day of closing arguments

live

session 1


session 2

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on August 08, 2014, 01:29:43 PM
Oscar Pistorius trial: Nel covers all options

by Andrew Harding
BBC Africa correspondent
8 August 2014

It was an impressive display of sustained incredulity.

Prosecutor Gerrie Nel, standing in courtroom D for most of Thursday searched for new words - "mendacity", "deceitfulness", "a snowball" of lies - to describe Oscar Pistorius's version of events the night he killed Reeva Steenkamp.

The man so-often dubbed the pit-bull for his ruthlessly effective cross-examinations spent a good deal of time reading from his written arguments, which were surprisingly flowery in tone and language. It was like finding out your favourite boxer is a closet Proust fan.

But this was an important day in a long trial. And Mr Nel cast his net wide. He raced from one "lie" to the next, seldom pausing for breath as he sought to direct Judge Thokosile Masipa towards the strongest aspects of the state's case.

There were the neighbours who heard a woman screaming. There was the forensic evidence suggesting Reeva Steenkamp had eaten a late night meal. There was the disputed crime scene itself. And the defence's "incompetent" expert witnesses.

But most of all, there was Oscar Pistorius himself, his "weak" performance as a witness, and his "contradictory" explanations for what happened that night.

Where the prosecutor struck home most convincingly, in my opinion, was when he focused directly on those four closely grouped gunshots in Pistorius's toilet door, and argued that nobody who shoots repeatedly into such a confined space can possibly pretend that they did not intend to kill someone, whether a girlfriend or a perceived intruder.

Mr Nel went on to insist that Mr Pistorius was guilty of pre-meditated murder, because he'd had time to plan his actions as he grabbed his gun and advanced towards the bathroom.

But like a merchant seeking to seal the deal - any deal - Mr Nel offered Justice Masipa a range of other choices. Three more, by my count. From the deliberate murder of either of an intruder or Reeva Steenkamp (dolus directus), to the unintended but foreseeable murder of either of them (dolus eventualis), to culpable homicide.

In the past I've accused the prosecution of failing to offer the court a coherent version of what it believes happened that night, and of focusing instead of simply trying to discredit Pistorius's own version.

Perhaps it's not a bad strategy. Still, it was disappointing to see Mr Nel once again dodging the opportunity to sell a comprehensive theory.

The state has produced plenty of damaging claims about Oscar Pistorius's version of events and about his character - not least his refusal to accept blame for the other two gunshot incidents. But it has consistently avoided weaving them into a minute-by-minute timeline. Instead, Thursday seemed mostly to be a rehash of things Mr Nel has been saying for some time in court.

So for me, the real focus of these final arguments will be Friday's speech by defence lawyer Barry Roux. He's been eclipsed for some time by Mr Nel's show-stealing performance, but we were given a glimpse on Thursday of the sort of detailed timeline Mr Roux has been preparing.

I suspect Judge Masipa will find Mr Roux's timeline quite persuasive. But that won't affect the core question of this trial - the question that could yet see Oscar Pistorius convicted of murder even on his own version of events.

How could you fire four shots into a small cubicle and not intend to kill someone?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28698620
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Mr Moderator on August 08, 2014, 01:39:05 PM
Sorry for the unavoidable absence.......So pleased the video diary was kept going  8@??)(


Good to have you back Anna.  Thank you for again posting the video diaries.


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 08, 2014, 02:11:32 PM
Good to have you back Anna.  Thank you for again posting the video diaries.

Thank you, You are welcome.
Its good to be back, although I may have a few more absent spells. Fingers crossed I do not for some time.
 Thank you for keeping up the diary  ?{)(**

I think the arguments so far are in no way going to sway the Judges decision.....
Its murder IMO, but what degree, we must wait to find out.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 08, 2014, 03:15:58 PM
Jesus wept! Oscar faces his own private 911!

Over a month to wait for the bloody judge to issue her judgement! What a ridiculous delay. This is hardly a complicated case .... justice delayed is justice denied! I am not impressed with the judge or the SA court system!

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Anna on August 08, 2014, 03:59:58 PM
Jesus wept! Oscar faces his own private 911!

Over a month to wait for the bloody judge to issue her judgement! What a ridiculous delay. This is hardly a complicated case .... justice delayed is justice denied! I am not impressed with the judge or the SA court system!

Toooooooooooooooooooooooo  Long!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 08, 2014, 04:25:47 PM
Really annoying x 2!

Roux saying stumpy didn't have the flight response available as he is disabled! Gggrrrrr! Stumpy could have left the bedroom with Reeva thru the access door rather than walk along the passage way to the bathroom! According to Oscar the house alarm was on so even better ... he could have opened the bedroom door to escape with his gun for protection and set off the alarm at the same time!

Arnold Pistorius! Gggggrrrrrr! Stumpy's uncle slapping Roux on the back after the trial ended with a big smile on his face. He also called Roux 'a Mercedes' against Gerrie Nell 'a Fiat' and pointed to his stumpy nephew saying he wants him back at the Olympics!

Terrible behaviour in front of Reeva's family! I really hope justice is done and OP gets the harshest sentence!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on August 09, 2014, 03:42:34 AM
Oscar Pistorius trial - Barry Roux closing arguments for the defence

In his closing submission, Barry Roux, lead counsel for the defence, told Judge Thokozile Masipa that Pistorius' experience over many years as a disabled person – his lower legs were amputated when he was a baby – was comparable to that of an abused woman who kills her husband: "She has had enough … The cup is full to the brim."

Roux said the state had been wrong to pursue the charge of murder after assertions made at the initial bail hearing – that he was wearing his prostheses at the time he fired the gun, and that he was standing close to the toilet door as he fired into it – had been disproven. "Culpable homicide [manslaughter] is what the trial should have been about – but unfortunately it was not."

Pistorius' team submitted two lines of defence, despite criticism from prosecutor Gerrie Nel, who called them "not just mutually exclusive but mutually destructive". The accused should be acquitted, Roux argued, because if the firing of the gun was purely reflexive – because he was startled by a noise – he lacked criminal capacity.

Alternatively, it was "putative private defence" (self-defence) because Pistorius believed he was in imminent danger: that an intruder was coming out of the toilet. He had no motive to kill Steenkamp, Roux insisted, telling the court the relationship had been "loving".

The state's case that the couple were awake in the early hours arguing was dealt a "fatal" blow by evidence that a security guard went past the house at 2.20am and heard no arguing, the defence maintained.

Pistorius' hopes could hinge on a forensic timeline of events constructed by the defence to show that the state's version – in which the fatal shots were fired at 3.17am – cannot be true.

The defence says noises heard by neighbours at 3.17am were the thuds of the cricket bat as Pistorius broke down the toilet door. The gunshots, it contends, were several minutes earlier.
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The timing might prove crucial in determining whether screams heard by neighbours on the Silver Woods estate were those of Steenkamp or, as the defence claims, Pistorius, who is said to sound like a woman when distressed.

Roux asked the court: "If the shots were, as submitted by the state, at 3.17am, would it make sense that before firing the shots the accused would shout 'help, help, help'?"

But in a surprise move, Roux said Pistorius should be found guilty of a separate charge of negligently discharging a firearm in a restaurant. Pistorius had pleaded not guilty.

In a brief response, Nel said Pistorius should be convicted of premeditated murder: "The accused intended to kill a human being. He knew there was a human being in that toilet. That's his evidence … He is guilty of murder. There must be consequences for it."

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/pistorius-murder-judge-verdict-september
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on August 09, 2014, 04:06:45 AM
Pistorius verdict 5 weeks away

(CNN) -  The defense for Oscar Pistorius used the final day of closing arguments in a South African courtroom Friday to painstakingly go through a time line of the night he killed his girlfriend, revisiting phone records and witness testimony to back his version of events.

The second and last day of closing arguments caps months of proceedings that have seen the Olympic sprinter gag, vomit and break down in heaving sobs. The judge will consider her verdict over the next five weeks and announce it next month, she said.

Pistorius sent a message to supporters through his Twitter account at the end of court Friday: "Thank you to my loved ones and those that have been there for me, who have picked me up and helped me through everything."

CNN legal analyst Kelly Phelps said she was impressed with the way defense attorney Barry Roux completed his closing arguments. "We've always said they'd need to come out with their 'A' game, and that is certainly what they did here today," Phelps said.

Roux alleged the prosecution made mistakes and handled evidence poorly. He laid out details of the noises from that night: the gunshots, screams and pounding -- the last from Pistorius' using a cricket bat to break down the door. Witness testimony shows an anxious man screamed for help three times, which supports Pistorius' case, according to Roux. The defense reminded the court that Pistorius, who uses prostheses to walk after his lower legs were amputated as a child, suffers from anxiety. Roux compared the Olympian's situation to that of an abuse victim who suddenly snaps after undergoing suffering for a while.

Roux argued that Pistorius should be evaluated as a "reasonable" disabled person with anxiety, not as an ordinary "reasonable man." If the court finds that Postorius was "reasonable," then he must be acquitted, he said.  In an attempt to discredit the prosecution's version of events, Roux also accused investigators of tampering with the crime scene by moving items around, including a fan and Steenkamp's jeans. In police pictures, the items appeared in different spots from where the Olympian said they'd been, Roux said. Roux pointed out that the burden of proof is on the state in this case, and accused the state of avoiding certain important facts and ignoring other reasonable scenarios.

Making his final arguments, prosecutor Gerrie Nel accused the Olympian's attorneys of presenting a defense that did not jibe with the facts.

Prosecution: Pistorius lied

Nel, renowned for his bulldog tenacity in questioning, maintained that Pistorius was dishonest and his testimony was "devoid of any truth." Using a metaphor reflecting Pistorius' career on the track, Nel said the athlete had "dropped the baton of truth."

"Without the baton of truth, you cannot complete the race," he said.  Nel said the Olympian "displayed a blatant disregard for the law and the lives of others." In Pistorius' version of events, the prosecutor said, the athlete said he went to the bathroom door and fired with the intention to kill or hit, believing there was someone behind it.  Before he fired, he was armed with a high-powered weapon and was "in charge" of the situation, Nel said.  He said Pistorius should not go free regardless of whether the court believes he thought there was an intruder behind the door.

Calling the Olympic sprinter an "appalling" witness, Nel said the evidence from the bullet holes in the bathroom door suggests Pistorius had time to think, and that he looked down the gun sight as he fired.

But Roux referenced Nel's metaphors in disputing the accusations. "There's no crumbling of the mosaic [Nel's metaphor for the defense's circumstantial evidence] or dropping of the baton," he said.

Judge's decision

The closing arguments lower the curtain on a courtroom drama that, since March, has seen the Olympic sprinter weep and retch in the courtroom as disturbing evidence was presented.  Proceedings were delayed while Pistorius underwent a court-ordered, month long psychiatric evaluation.  He was depressed, suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and is a suicide risk, the doctors concluded. But he did not appear to have a history of abnormal aggression or psychopathic tendencies linked to "rage-type murders in intimate relations."

The judge will give her verdict on 11th September 2014.

www.edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/africa/pistorius-closing-arguments/?c=&page=3
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on August 09, 2014, 04:23:53 PM
OK, we´re waiting....
Here he is - I get such an EWW feeling every time I see his ugly face with those ice cold eyes and hear his pathetic voice! What on earth did beautiful Reeva see in this idiot?!
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1798112!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/safrica-pistorius.jpg)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 09, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
What do you think the wording will be Abbs? And what do you think it should be?

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on August 09, 2014, 06:23:31 PM
What do you think the wording will be Abbs? And what do you think it should be?

The verdict?
You shouldn´t ask me about the wording! I am not English, you know that!!  8(0(*
I don´t trust this judge - she "babied" OP too much during the trial.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 09, 2014, 07:25:19 PM
The verdict?
You shouldn´t ask me about the wording! I am not English, you know that!!  8(0(*
I don´t trust this judge - she "babied" OP too much during the trial.

I must have early onset Alzheimer's Abs, by 'wording' I meant 'verdict'!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on August 09, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
I have a feeling the verdict will be too mild for my taste! I also think he might receive some special treatment because of his handicap, perhaps he is allowed to serve his sentence at home (house arrest) with an electronig foot tagging.... wait......, he HAS no foot!  8(0(*
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 09, 2014, 11:47:30 PM
I have a feeling the verdict will be too mild for my taste! I also think he might receive some special treatment because of his handicap, perhaps he is allowed to serve his sentence at home (house arrest) with an electronig foot tagging.... wait......, he HAS no foot!  8(0(*

 @)(++(*

I hope you're wrong Abs .... the judge has guidelines she must follow. Premed murder is life min. 25 years. Murder is life min. 15 years. Only culpable homicide could the judge give a lenient sentence like tagging and that judge is know for harsh sentences.

Even if the judge believes OP though it was a burglar in the loo it has (imo) still got to be murder because you can't just shoot someone unless you believe your life in imminent danger. We know the door didn't open so I believe it has ti be at least murder.

It will be fascinating watching on 11 Sept. Fingers crossed for justice!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: abs on August 10, 2014, 04:48:58 PM
@)(++(*

I hope you're wrong Abs .... the judge has guidelines she must follow. Premed murder is life min. 25 years. Murder is life min. 15 years. Only culpable homicide could the judge give a lenient sentence like tagging and that judge is know for harsh sentences.

Even if the judge believes OP though it was a burglar in the loo it has (imo) still got to be murder because you can't just shoot someone unless you believe your life in imminent danger. We know the door didn't open so I believe it has ti be at least murder.

It will be fascinating watching on 11 Sept. Fingers crossed for justice!

If OP receives a regular prison sentence and he has to serve in jail, he will have to be in isolation - if that is an option, the prisons are heavily over-crowded. He is easy prey with those stumps. South African jails are known for brutality among the inmates.

Here is an article, they claim they can deal with his special needs as a handicapped person: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/21/world/africa/south-africa-prison-conditions/index.html

And Pistorius, if he is eventually convicted and jailed, should find that his particular medical needs as a double amputee are taken into account, she said.

This could mean that he is sent to a prison with better medical facilities or wheelchair access, she suggested.

According to the bill of rights, prisoners are entitled to "be detained in conditions that are consistent with human dignity, including at least exercise and the provision, at state expense, of adequate accommodation, nutrition, medical treatment."

Correctional Services Department spokesman Koos Gerber said South Africa's detention facilities, whether for remand prisoners or those serving prison terms, "can accommodate people with any disabilities."


Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: John on August 14, 2014, 02:30:44 AM
I have a suspicion that the judge will decide that culpable homicide is the appropriate charge and convict him accordingly.  I cant see any way she can give a sentence less than custodial since he fired that gun with the intention to kill.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 14, 2014, 09:02:50 AM
I have a suspicion that the judge will decide that culpable homicide is the appropriate charge and convict him accordingly.  I cant see any way she can give a sentence less than custodial since he fired that gun with the intention to kill.

I think the judgement has to be murder. When OP got his gun license he signed an understanding document stating he knows he can only shoot someone if his life is in obvious and immediate danger.. He had to answer questions on given scenarios such as 'can he shoot an unarmed man who is threatening to kill him who is the other side of a locked gate'?
OP answered correctly .... No!

Under OP's version he made no challenge to the person in the locked toilet. For all he knew it could have been an 8 year child burglar! (Of course we all know he knew it was Reeva!)
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 30, 2014, 09:23:57 PM
I thought I made a post here re OP's amygdala but it seems to have disappeared  8)><(
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on August 30, 2014, 11:11:13 PM
I thought I made a post here re OP's amygdala but it seems to have disappeared  8)><(

I didn't see any post from you here Hols! Post it again.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: puglove on August 30, 2014, 11:12:44 PM
I didn't see any post from you here Hols! Post it again.

I saw it, Holls. Top post.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 03, 2014, 07:46:01 PM
I saw it, Holls. Top post.

Cheers puglove  8((()*/

(Tim it was only that I thought, rightly or wrongly, that OP's amygdala will play a pivotal role in the decision making).

I was wondering about the advantages/disadvantages of the SA judicial system ie that the judge and 2/3 assessors decide; as opposed to our system of a jury made up of ordinary folk?  Also the fact that they have weeks to deliberate over the evidence as opposed to our system which is somewhat time limited?



Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Brietta on September 09, 2014, 09:11:02 AM
Oscar Pistorius Property Sell-Off Sparks Flight Risk Fear if Guilty Verdict is Reached
IB Times  By Dominic Gover

Oscar Pistorius could be deemed at risk of fleeing justice by the South African legal system because the athlete, who is on trial for murder, has sold all his properties in the country.

Ahead of this week's verdict in his trial for shooting dead his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, Pistorius has sold three homes for millions of rand.

As a result, judge Thokozile Masipa may conclude the runner could seek to go on the run from the law, having cut his ties with his bricks and mortar assets.

That is because owning property is seen by the justice system as being an effective guarantor of a defendant's conduct as it can be confiscated in the event of them seeking to evade justice.

Fallen star Pistorius, 27, is due to find out this week if he is guilty or innocent of murdering Steenkamp in a Valentine's Day bloodbath at one his luxury homes.

Off-loading the three properties - including the one in which Steenkamp was gunned down - has pocketed him enormous amounts of cash.

However, he took a big hit on the residence in Silverwoods Estate, Pretoria, where the shooting happened by being forced to sell it for 4.5m rand (£258,000) - only two thirds of its normal value.

Considering what Masipa shall weigh up when considering whether to grant bail to Pistorius between the trial verdict and any sentence, lawyer Ulrich Roux told The Times: "The argument is of course that the temptation to flee is so much stronger when a convicted person is possibly faced with a lengthy period of imprisonment."

Roux said no longer owning any property in South Africa could see Pistorius jailed on remand because: "Not having any fixed property makes it easier for a person to flee as there is no risk of losing the said property and suffering substantial financial losses.

"The fact that he placed on record that he owned four properties and was in a strong financial position, as well as his access to fund through other means, will all be considered. Any proceeds derived from the sale of the properties will be considered accordingly."

Two other properties in another gated community in Pretoria have been recently sold by Pistorius for 1m rand (£57,457) and 1.03m rand (£59,181).

Pistorius's total legal bill for advice since Steenkamp's death in 2013 is an estimated 3m rand, which is the most likely reason why the former track star has been selling his properties.

It is expected he would have spent a significant sum on lawyers once Thursday's verdict has been announced at North Gauteng High Court in Pretoria. His lead defence lawyer, Barry Roux, charges up to 85,000 rand (£4,885) a day.

Masipa is due to deliver the trial verdict on Thursday 11 September. Pistorius denies murder and a string of firearms charges.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/oscar-pistorius-property-sell-off-sparks-flight-risk-122205338.html#uw7pWf6
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Tim Invictus on September 10, 2014, 04:36:53 PM
D Day tomorrow. I do hope justice is served and the the verdict against Pistorius is murder .... hopefully premeditated!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 10, 2014, 08:48:54 PM
I haven't had the time needed to look at all the evidence to form an opinion either way, but I am looking forward  to hearing the outcome.  Apparently the judge spends some considerable time summing up and the outcome might not be known until Friday.

Amazing in that just 2 decades since apartheid SA has a black female judge deciding the fate of a white sports star!
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: puglove on September 11, 2014, 10:55:50 AM
Good grief. Just listening to Mark Williams-Thomas bleating on about what a wonderful guy Pistorius is. Ugh.
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 11, 2014, 11:14:12 AM
Good grief. Just listening to Mark Williams-Thomas bleating on about what a wonderful guy Pistorius is. Ugh.

The guy is a total moron.

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 11:50:32 PM
I read he might be let  out after 10 months

Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2015, 11:52:00 PM
delete
Title: Re: Oscar Pistorius trial commences in Pretoria, South Africa. Includes Court video.
Post by: mercury on August 17, 2015, 11:27:46 PM
http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/bf893d0049835028bc11bc64ef9804ff/Prosecutors-file-Pistorius-appeal-20151708