UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on October 16, 2014, 11:24:18 AM

Title: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: John on October 16, 2014, 11:24:18 AM
Given recent main stream media interest in internet trolling, the question must be asked, what is an internet troll?

I have searched various dictionary sites on the internet and here are some explanations.

1. Wikipedia explains an internet troll as a person who sows discord by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

2. Oxford online dictionary simply states that an internet troll is a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting.

3. An internet 'troll' is an abusive or obnoxious user who uses shock value to promote arguments and disharmony in online communities.

4. Another site describes internet trolls as people who fish for other people's confidence and, once found, exploit it. They suggest that internet trolls can be divided into four distinct types.

* Playtime Trolls: an individual plays a simple, short game. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.
 
*Tactical Trolls: This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona to gain confidence of others, and provokes strife in a subtle and invidious way.
 
* Strategic Trolls: A very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list.

*Domination Trolls: This is where the trollers' strategy extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing lists.


What do you think?

142
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 11:33:59 AM

I think I might be a troll John.

Inflammatory posting, being deliberately offensive, abusive & obnoxious......

 8()-000(

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on October 16, 2014, 12:03:58 PM
I think I might be a troll John.

Inflammatory posting, being deliberately offensive, abusive & obnoxious......

 8()-000(

I would go along with that.  But fortunately no one takes you seriously.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
I think I might be a troll John.

Inflammatory posting, being deliberately offensive, abusive & obnoxious......

 8()-000(

I see you more of an anti-Davel... 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 12:18:31 PM
I would go along with that.  But fortunately no one takes you seriously.

I think I've been here long enough for people to understand that.... I don't really do serious, not often anyway.

But that's just me, online & off.

Right, back on topic...

I believe the media is misusing the term 'Troll' & giving a bad name to decent 'Trolls' who just enjoy indulging in the internet age sport of wummery.

I'm not sure which posts, if any, of Brenda Leylands could really be desribed as 'trolling' using the defenitions above.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: John on October 16, 2014, 12:48:21 PM
I believe the media is misusing the term 'Troll' & giving a bad name to decent 'Trolls' who just enjoy indulging in the internet age sport of wummery.

I'm not sure which posts, if any, of Brenda Leylands could really be desribed as 'trolling' using the defenitions above.

I believe there is a little troll in most of us and that we let him or her out to play on occasion.  Most of us can be mischievous when the need arises and I have no problem with that.  What isn't acceptable however is activity which is criminal or borders on criminality. Is this really trolling in the true sense of the term or is this simply a convenient label?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 01:09:13 PM
This wasn't 'trolling' this was just....I dunno?......Messed up!

Woman jailed for trolling herself.

5 February 2014

24-year-old bombarded her own Facebook page with fake abuse in a bid to incriminate her estranged family

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552154/Woman-jailed-trolling-HERSELF-24-year-old-bombarded-Facebook-page-fake-abuse-bid-incriminate-estranged-family.html

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on October 16, 2014, 01:12:12 PM
This wasn't 'trolling' this was just....I dunno?......Messed up!

Woman jailed for trolling herself.

5 February 2014

24-year-old bombarded her own Facebook page with fake abuse in a bid to incriminate her estranged family

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552154/Woman-jailed-trolling-HERSELF-24-year-old-bombarded-Facebook-page-fake-abuse-bid-incriminate-estranged-family.html

An attention seeking t##t.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 01:16:58 PM

This one doesn't seem to be 'trolling' either,  just terribly sad really.

Hannah Smith wrote 'vile' posts to herself before suicide, say police

Coroner says fears of online bullying unfounded during inquest into Leicestershire teenager who took her own life at home.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/06/hannah-smith-suicide-teenager-cyber-bullying-inquests
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on October 16, 2014, 02:45:54 PM
I believe there is a little troll in most of us and that we let him or her out to play on occasion.  Most of us can be mischievous when the need arises and I have no problem with that.  What isn't acceptable however is activity which is criminal or borders on criminality. Is this really trolling in the true sense of the term or is this simply a convenient label?

Do you think what Brenda Leyland was doing was acceptable?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 16, 2014, 02:53:32 PM
Do you think what Brenda Leyland was doing was acceptable?

Do you think she deserved to die?

Davel you call people on here names-you are rude and ignorant to people who merely question, and challenge openly accessible words offered by a family.

I had you labelled a lame troll a long time ago.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 03:18:36 PM
I think people who indulge themselves in systematic trolling are suffering from a mental illness.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 03:36:46 PM
I think people who indulge themselves in systematic trolling are suffering from a mental illness.

Considering 'Trolling' hasn't really been defined, as such, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what 'systematic trolling' is.

But, then, I am mentally ill.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on October 16, 2014, 03:49:20 PM

Trolling to me is malicious and damaging "Fun" by people who have no interest in any case in question, or any concern for anyone.  It is just a "Laugh" to them.

I don't think that what Brenda did was Trolling.  But it wasn't very nice.  And it must be possible to put some other name to it that is against the law.  Probably Malicious Communications would have covered it.  But then it would cover Trolling as well.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on October 16, 2014, 03:52:48 PM
Trolling to me is malicious and damaging "Fun" by people who have no interest in any case in question, or any concern for anyone.  It is just a "Laugh" to them.

I don't think that what Brenda did was Trolling.  But it wasn't very nice.  And it must be possible to put some other name to it that is against the law.  Probably Malicious Communications would have covered it.  But then it would cover Trolling as well.

I only post here.

If the fairytale wasn't exactly that, there'd be nothing to laugh about, but it is, so there is.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 07:14:44 PM
I don't think that what Brenda did was Trolling.  But it wasn't very nice.  And it must be possible to put some other name to it that is against the law.  Probably Malicious Communications would have covered it.  But then it would cover Trolling as well.


That is a very worrying statement, basically you are saying what she did wasn't against the law but we should change the law so it becomes illegal.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on October 16, 2014, 07:19:07 PM

That is a very worrying statement, basically you are saying what she did wasn't against the law but we should change the law so it becomes illegal.

No.  I am questioning the term Troll.  Malicious Communications are already against the law.  And she was being malicious.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 07:25:52 PM
No.  I am questioning the term Troll.  Malicious Communications are already against the law.  And she was being malicious.

I think you would struggle to prove she was being malicious. A lot easier to prove some of the posts about Amaral were malicious.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 16, 2014, 08:19:59 PM
I think you would struggle to prove she was being malicious. A lot easier to prove some of the posts about Amaral were malicious.
Saying that the McCanns must suffer for the rest of their miserable lives is not malicious then in your view?  And that's just one tweet!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 08:26:32 PM
Saying that the McCanns must suffer for the rest of their miserable lives is not malicious then in your view?  And that's just one tweet!

Quote
characterized by malice; intending or intended to do harm.

No not really malicious, unkind perhaps.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: John on October 16, 2014, 08:27:48 PM
Blogger Richard Philips is back after having been warned off by 'men in suits'.   In one of his latest blogs he offers a view on the Internet Troll.

Friday, October 3, 2014

TROLLS

Before I return to analysis of evidence in McCann case I thought I would write a short post inspired by the recent internet troll saga in the McCann case.

TROLLS
First let me make my position crystal clear:

No one should feel it is their right to ridicule, insult, harass or make untrue or unprovable accusations about anyone, either on the internet, in newspapers on TV/radio or anywhere else. Freedom of speech is a right that carries with it responsibilities. No one should abuse this right.


There is absolutely no doubt that, for want of a better phrase, "internet trolls" comment on the McCann case. These people "infect" social media & the internet in general with inappropriate and occasionally highly offensive material. Trolls on both sides of the debate engage in these tactics. Anyone reading #mccann on twitter can quickly see the daily attempts by trolls on both sides to provoke, insult and attack the other.

Trolls who claim to support the McCann's clearly attempt to provoke more and more outrageous comments from their opponents. Once they succeed they then re-post these comments in a forlorn attempt to claim the moral high ground. These McCann supporting trolls also cherry pick items from the evidence and claim it "proves" their point while at the same time ignoring evidence that suggests the opposite. They insult anyone who questions their opinion, sometimes disgracefully invoking mental health issues. They present strawman arguments (effectively lying) in an effort to discredit their opponents position. They are rude, intolerant, aggressive and spiteful. Most claim to do this to support the McCann family, but how can their actions do anything of the sort? Pouring petrol on a fire doesn't put it out. If the McCann's are aware of their actions, it is hard to imagine they are not, they must surely be appalled by what they see.

Trolls, some of whom claim to support Madeleine, by claim that the evidence proves her parents are guilty of some crime (anything from negligence to murder) are equally shameful. For example there are large numbers of photoshopped images circulating. Some are obviously photoshopped and meant in jest (albeit often in very poor taste), but others are circulated as if they are genuine and can create an entirely false impression. Cherry picked items of evidence, often inaccurately quoted, are posted along with claims that this proves the McCann's guilt. Suggestions that there may be innocent explanations for these are ignored or ridiculed. They frequently accuse the McCann parents of various criminal acts, none of which can be proved & occasionally one will make an outrageous threat to harm the McCann family in some way. To claim that these actions are in any way supporting a missing child is ridiculous and offensive.

Facebook groups, Blogs and forums are similarly infected by these trolls. In my opinion none of the trolls has a genuine interest in any of the following:

1. Finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann.
2. Supporting the McCann family over the loss of their daughter.
3. Finding Madeleine.

So I make this appeal to the trolls on both sides. STOP! If you write a tweet or post which only has as it's only purpose insulting, provoking or accusing someone else don't post it.

If you want to why not START, engaging in a proper discussion and analysis of the evidence. Accept your own shortcomings & the shortcomings of others and try to improve the overall level of understanding about this case and perhaps others. DON'T be taken in by propaganda from either side. READ the PJfiles http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ & RESEARCH other relevant information, such as interviews, press articles and background information using all means available to you.

Above all KEEP AN OPEN MIND & be receptive to different opinions and ideas.

Finally, NEVER forget that at the heart of this case is a missing girl who was almost 4 years old when she vanished & would be 11 now. She is more important than your petty point scoring and childish insults and games. Her disappearance remains an as yet unsolved mystery. At the time of publishing this blog anyone who claims different is a liar.


EVERYONE ELSE

Not everyone who comments on the McCann case online is a troll. There are people, who do seem to have a genuine interest in The McCann case. They fall into several categories

1. Those with a genuine interest in finding out what happened to Madeleine.

Some think the balance of evidence supports the abduction hypothesis, some think that it supports anything but the abduction hypothesis, some are genuinely undecided, but all seem to share a genuine interest in the mystery and choose to spend their leisure time discussing the evidence and various hypotheses to explain Madeleine's disappearance.

2. Those who campaign for missing people & children.

Usually these people believe that Madeleine was abducted, or take the view that it is better to believe this unless it is proven otherwise.

3. Those who are concerned about paedophilia and government cover-ups in the UK & who think the McCann case is an example of one or both.

Often referred to as "conspiraloons" such people are very important in a democracy. Usually they are completely mis-guided, but every now and again they shed light on something that really needs to be uncovered. Unfortunately they can be over zealous in their words and actions which gives more fuel for the McCann supporter trolls to throw on the flames.

4. Those with a casual interest in the case.

Posted by Richard Philips

www.my-mccann-thoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/trolls.html
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 08:33:28 PM
Blogger Richard Philips is back after having been warned off by 'men in suits'.   In one of his latest blogs he offers a view on the Internet Troll.

Friday, October 3, 2014

TROLLS

Before I return to analysis of evidence in McCann case I thought I would write a short post inspired by the recent internet troll saga in the McCann case.

TROLLS
First let me make my position crystal clear:

No one should feel it is their right to ridicule, insult, harass or make untrue or unprovable accusations about anyone, either on the internet, in newspapers on TV/radio or anywhere else. Freedom of speech is a right that carries with it responsibilities. No one should abuse this right.


There is absolutely no doubt that, for want of a better phrase, "internet trolls" comment on the McCann case. These people "infect" social media & the internet in general with inappropriate and occasionally highly offensive material. Trolls on both sides of the debate engage in these tactics. Anyone reading #mccann on twitter can quickly see the daily attempts by trolls on both sides to provoke, insult and attack the other.

Trolls who claim to support the McCann's clearly attempt to provoke more and more outrageous comments from their opponents. Once they succeed they then re-post these comments in a forlorn attempt to claim the moral high ground. These McCann supporting trolls also cherry pick items from the evidence and claim it "proves" their point while at the same time ignoring evidence that suggests the opposite. They insult anyone who questions their opinion, sometimes disgracefully invoking mental health issues. They present strawman arguments (effectively lying) in an effort to discredit their opponents position. They are rude, intolerant, aggressive and spiteful. Most claim to do this to support the McCann family, but how can their actions do anything of the sort? Pouring petrol on a fire doesn't put it out. If the McCann's are aware of their actions, it is hard to imagine they are not, they must surely be appalled by what they see.

Trolls, some of whom claim to support Madeleine, by claim that the evidence proves her parents are guilty of some crime (anything from negligence to murder) are equally shameful. For example there are large numbers of photoshopped images circulating. Some are obviously photoshopped and meant in jest (albeit often in very poor taste), but others are circulated as if they are genuine and can create an entirely false impression. Cherry picked items of evidence, often inaccurately quoted, are posted along with claims that this proves the McCann's guilt. Suggestions that there may be innocent explanations for these are ignored or ridiculed. They frequently accuse the McCann parents of various criminal acts, none of which can be proved & occasionally one will make an outrageous threat to harm the McCann family in some way. To claim that these actions are in any way supporting a missing child is ridiculous and offensive.

Facebook groups, Blogs and forums are similarly infected by these trolls. In my opinion none of the trolls has a genuine interest in any of the following:

1. Finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann.
2. Supporting the McCann family over the loss of their daughter.
3. Finding Madeleine.

So I make this appeal to the trolls on both sides. STOP! If you write a tweet or post which only has as it's only purpose insulting, provoking or accusing someone else don't post it.

If you want to why not START, engaging in a proper discussion and analysis of the evidence. Accept your own shortcomings & the shortcomings of others and try to improve the overall level of understanding about this case and perhaps others. DON'T be taken in by propaganda from either side. READ the PJfiles http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ & RESEARCH other relevant information, such as interviews, press articles and background information using all means available to you.

Above all KEEP AN OPEN MIND & be receptive to different opinions and ideas.

Finally, NEVER forget that at the heart of this case is a missing girl who was almost 4 years old when she vanished & would be 11 now. She is more important than your petty point scoring and childish insults and games. Her disappearance remains an as yet unsolved mystery. At the time of publishing this blog anyone who claims different is a liar.


EVERYONE ELSE

Not everyone who comments on the McCann case online is a troll. There are people, who do seem to have a genuine interest in The McCann case. They fall into several categories

1. Those with a genuine interest in finding out what happened to Madeleine.

Some think the balance of evidence supports the abduction hypothesis, some think that it supports anything but the abduction hypothesis, some are genuinely undecided, but all seem to share a genuine interest in the mystery and choose to spend their leisure time discussing the evidence and various hypotheses to explain Madeleine's disappearance.

2. Those who campaign for missing people & children.

Usually these people believe that Madeleine was abducted, or take the view that it is better to believe this unless it is proven otherwise.

3. Those who are concerned about paedophilia and government cover-ups in the UK & who think the McCann case is an example of one or both.

Often referred to as "conspiraloons" such people are very important in a democracy. Usually they are completely mis-guided, but every now and again they shed light on something that really needs to be uncovered. Unfortunately they can be over zealous in their words and actions which gives more fuel for the McCann supporter trolls to throw on the flames.

4. Those with a casual interest in the case.

Posted by Richard Philips

www.my-mccann-thoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/trolls.html

Quite sensible.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 16, 2014, 08:36:06 PM
Hilarious!  "Richard Phillips" is a multi-hatted twitter troll himself. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on October 16, 2014, 08:36:29 PM
Saying that the McCanns must suffer for the rest of their miserable lives is not malicious then in your view?  And that's just one tweet!


Screeds on it at this link.

I've had a quick read and imo collars are going to be felt ... and the sooner the better.

>>snip<<
Harassment of an individual can also occur when a person is harassing others connected with the individual, knowing that this behaviour will affect their victim as well as the other people that the person appears to be targeting their actions towards. This is known as 'stalking by proxy'. Family members, friends and employees of the victim may be subjected to this.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on October 16, 2014, 08:55:14 PM
Saying that the McCanns must suffer for the rest of their miserable lives is not malicious then in your view?  And that's just one tweet!

Also quite ironic..

My own comment is not meant unkindly, and in the main, I don't stand in judgement on anyone who takes his or her own life, but I would say that the depths of misery and despair that drives someone to a step so final must be extreme.

Brenda didn't want the McCanns to feel misery that extreme.

Did she?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 16, 2014, 09:02:26 PM

Screeds on it at this link.

I've had a quick read and imo collars are going to be felt ... and the sooner the better.

>>snip<<
Harassment of an individual can also occur when a person is harassing others connected with the individual, knowing that this behaviour will affect their victim as well as the other people that the person appears to be targeting their actions towards. This is known as 'stalking by proxy'. Family members, friends and employees of the victim may be subjected to this.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/

So she was harassing employees of the McCanns?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 16, 2014, 10:20:15 PM
No not really malicious, unkind perhaps.
malicious
[muh-lish-uh s]  IPA  Syllables
Examples Word Origin
adjective
1.
full of, characterized by, or showing malice; malevolent; spiteful:
malicious gossip.
2.
Law. vicious, wanton, or mischievous in motivation or purpose.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2014, 05:19:38 PM
From what I have seen from some posters on this forum a troll is someone who doesn't believe the McCannns are criminally involved in Maddie's disappearance and dares to suggest that the McCanns are telling the truth...that seems to be  a fairly accurate description
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 05:25:33 PM
From what I have seen from some posters on this forum a troll is someone who doesn't believe the McCannns are criminally involved in Maddie's disappearance and dares to suggest that the McCanns are telling the truth...that seems to be  a fairly accurate description

If you look closely, you will find  that you and others make personal jibes about people being mentally ill- if THEY DO NOT BELIEVE the McCanns -  also I have been called a paedophile supporter by McCann supporter for daring to suggest that a 'suspect' has the same rights to silence as did Kate McCann. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 05:31:43 PM
The 'abductor' is probably there... riding a bike and cackling loudly at his deviant behavior...


You see...Davel could not resist making it personal. Trolling... Is your argument lost perchance?  Yes, I think so!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
If you look closely, you will find  that you and others make personal jibes about people being mentally ill- if THEY DO NOT BELIEVE the McCanns -  also I have been called a paedophile supporter by McCann supporter for daring to suggest that a 'suspect' has the same rights to silence as did Kate McCann.

I believe paedophiles have the right to silence as does every other suspect...I also believe they have the right not to be beaten in prison...but I don't support them
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on October 20, 2014, 05:35:45 PM
If you look closely, you will find  that you and others make personal jibes about people being mentally ill- if THEY DO NOT BELIEVE the McCanns -  also I have been called a paedophile supporter by McCann supporter for daring to suggest that a 'suspect' has the same rights to silence as did Kate McCann. 


I think if you re-read your post about Robinson again you MAY understand the disgust those of us who despise paedophiles felt. This man has a world-wide record of child abuse yet you chose to mock using your contempt for the McCanns as a means of defending his rights.
Perhaps you would enlighten me as to where & when I have made jibes about mental illness.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 05:41:17 PM
The 'abductor' is probably there... riding a bike and cackling loudly at his deviant behavior...


You see...Davel could not resist making it personal. Trolling... Is your argument lost perchance?  Yes, I think so!

Just as likely to be playing  a round of golf or indulging in some other heath-giving activity, IMO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 05:44:29 PM
I think if you re-read your post about Robinson again you MAY understand the disgust those of us who despise paedophiles felt. This man has a world-wide record of child abuse yet you chose to mock using your contempt for the McCanns as a means of defending his rights.
Perhaps you would enlighten me as to where & when I have made jibes about mental illness.

Brietta is this you?  Oh My...

I have no intention of reading/ re reading your banal diatribe.  You have every right to challenge what I type, you have no right to call me names and accuse me of being a paedophile supporter! OR Belonging to a group who said the 'mccanns dunit' .

You don't like my posts Don't read them!

I will always challenge the McCann's Version-with or without your approval.

I have copied and pasted this in case it gets removed.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on October 20, 2014, 05:52:58 PM
Brietta is this you?  Oh My...

I have no intention of reading/ re reading your banal diatribe.  You have every right to challenge what I type, you have no right to call me names and accuse me of being a paedophile supporter! OR Belonging to a group who said the 'mccanns unit'.

You don't like my posts Don't read them!

I will always challenge the McCann's Version-with or without your approval.

I have copied and pasted this in case it gets removed.

No, I am not Brietta - but I have witnessed this type of abuse against someone who posts FACTS (as far as internet facts go) in an attempt to stop them posting. Fortunately, the ability to delete unfavourable posts on this forum is restricted to Admin rather than other technological means.
I consider it is important to read all posts - otherwise, what's the point of being on a discussion forum?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 20, 2014, 05:59:32 PM
No, I am not Brietta - but I have witnessed this type of abuse against someone who posts FACTS (as far as internet facts go) in an attempt to stop them posting. Fortunately, the ability to delete unfavourable posts on this forum is restricted to Admin rather than other technological means.
I consider it is important to read all posts - otherwise, what's the point of being on a discussion forum?

Some clearly do not see it that way and who said this was a discussion forum?
It is a place where folk sling insults (up front or sneakily) at each other; this thread is testament to that  8(>((
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 06:04:20 PM
You just can't makeup your mind can you?

Who was it that called me a pedo supporter when I did not address her personally at all.

Brietta did.

Do I have a claim of calling her a vile troll for making personal jibes at me.

Yes I do.


Seems weird you asked me to read what you said in that thread... when I din't read your post,or comment on them anyway..

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 06:14:00 PM
You just can't makeup your mind can you?

Who was it that called me a pedo supporter when I did not address her personally at all.

Brietta did.

Do I have a claim of calling her a vile troll for making personal jibes at me.

Yes I do.


Seems weird you asked me to read what you said in that thread... when I din't read your post,or comment on them anyway..

Lambchop is alive and well it seems...
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2014, 06:32:53 PM
Some clearly do not see it that way and who said this was a discussion forum?
It is a place where folk sling insults (up front or sneakily) at each other; this thread is testament to that  8(>((

Yes, Indeed Alice.  Where challenging information is not to be tolerated by the Brethern of Kate n Gerry association.

AND fgs  don't use sarcasm.. AND always ask permission before posting... just in case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on October 20, 2014, 06:37:29 PM
Lambchop is alive and well it seems...

Is that the one screaming at admin to remove the trolls?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 06:39:35 PM
Is that the one screaming at admin to remove the trolls?

Whoosh....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2014, 06:43:39 PM
There are very serious issues going on at the moment regarding internet trolls who take great delight in anonymously stalking and terrorising their victims like the cowards they are.

There are many definitions to describe what is increasingly impinging on the lives of many ordinary people … disagreeing with someone on a well regulated discussion forum isn’t quite on a par with the reality of the situation which imo is getting entirely out of hand.

A recent case where a young woman had to leave her life, friends and family behind her and assume a new identity under witness protection shows the way we are heading if a solution isn't found very quickly. 

That is an example of the truly life changing effect that trolls can have on their victims … and it is disgraceful that it was deemed necessary for the victim to be forced into anonymity ... while the cowards who terrorised her are free to get on with their lives.

So what is an internet troll? ... at the moment it appears to be a cowardly someone who can break the law with impunity.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on October 20, 2014, 06:49:11 PM


Erm... you wouldn't be trying to "sow discord by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion", by any chance, would you?  &%+((£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on October 20, 2014, 06:58:34 PM
There are very serious issues going on at the moment regarding internet trolls who take great delight in anonymously stalking and terrorising their victims like the cowards they are.

There are many definitions to describe what is increasingly impinging on the lives of many ordinary people … disagreeing with someone on a well regulated discussion forum isn’t quite on a par with the reality of the situation which imo is getting entirely out of hand.

A recent case where a young woman had to leave her life, friends and family behind her and assume a new identity under witness protection shows the way we are heading if a solution isn't found very quickly. 

That is an example of the truly life changing effect that trolls can have on their victims … and it is disgraceful that it was deemed necessary for the victim to be forced into anonymity ... while the cowards who terrorised her are free to get on with their lives.

So what is an internet troll? ... at the moment it appears to be a cowardly someone who can break the law with impunity.

A somewhat tongue-in-cheek definition would be that a "troll" is a convenient 5-letter word that conveniently fits media headline space to describe a range of abusive types of behaviour.

"Troll" may not be an adequate term to cover all the various types.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 20, 2014, 06:59:49 PM
There are very serious issues going on at the moment regarding internet trolls who take great delight in anonymously stalking and terrorising their victims like the cowards they are.

There are many definitions to describe what is increasingly impinging on the lives of many ordinary people … disagreeing with someone on a well regulated discussion forum isn’t quite on a par with the reality of the situation which imo is getting entirely out of hand.

A recent case where a young woman had to leave her life, friends and family behind her and assume a new identity under witness protection shows the way we are heading if a solution isn't found very quickly. 

That is an example of the truly life changing effect that trolls can have on their victims … and it is disgraceful that it was deemed necessary for the victim to be forced into anonymity ... while the cowards who terrorised her are free to get on with their lives.

So what is an internet troll? ... at the moment it appears to be a cowardly someone who can break the law with impunity.

It was out of hand not long after facebook was launched; so about eight or nine years ago.
Any electronic conversation between two parties who don't know each other is going to run into trouble; add to that stroppy teenagers having a laugh and and few spiteful people with multiple IDs like Job had boils and what do you get?
A nice witches brew bubbling away even before the world had heard of the McCanns. So now it is imperative to "sort it" because some quasi celebrities are subjected to attack? Well if that's what it takes fair dos but one senses it will continue cos that's the human race for you; just look on here for a good cross section  %£&)**#
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves. Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 07:05:20 PM
Personally I think troll is too frivolous a term for some of the heinous abuse that gets heaped on some people online.  These so-called trolls are abusers, pure and simple.  They are sadists who get their kicks from writing mean, vicious things on social media in order to cause maximum upset to their victims.  Not every McCann "sceptic" is an abuser per se but many if not most quite happily post alongside abusers, share jokes with them. follow them on twitter or are facebook friends, etc Rarely will these "sceptics" question the behaviour and vile sentiments being expressed by the abusers - they will either turn a blind eye or laugh along with it (which makes them accessories to abuse in my opinion).
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 07:11:11 PM
Personally I think troll is too frivolous a term for some of the heinous abuse that gets heaped on some people online.  These so-called trolls are abusers, pure and simple.  They are sadists who get their kicks from writing mean, vicious things on social media in order to cause maximum upset to their victims.  Not every McCann "sceptic" is an abuser per se but many if not most quite happily post alongside abusers, share jokes with them. follow them on twitter or are facebook friends, etc Rarely will these "sceptics" question the behaviour and vile sentiments being expressed by the abusers - they will either turn a blind eye or laugh along with it (which makes them accessories to abuse in my opinion).


Oh do lighten up.

It would be interesting to do a poll and see just how many posters on here are active on Facebook or Twitter.
For the record, I use neither.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 07:13:54 PM
Personally I think troll is too frivolous a term for some of the heinous abuse that gets heaped on some people online.  These so-called trolls are abusers, pure and simple.  They are sadists who get their kicks from writing mean, vicious things on social media in order to cause maximum upset to their victims....

Not every McCann supporter is an abuser per se but many if not most quite happily post alongside abusers, share jokes with them. follow them on twitter or are facebook friends, etc Rarely will these supporters question the behaviour and vile sentiments being expressed by the abusers - they will either turn a blind eye or laugh along with it (which makes them accessories to abuse in my opinion)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 20, 2014, 07:37:55 PM

Oh do lighten up.

It would be interesting to do a poll and see just how many posters on here are active on Facebook or Twitter.
For the record, I use neither.

I'll drink to that; I fear however 'tis akin to asking a scorpion not to sting.....it's what they do you see.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 07:47:00 PM

Oh do lighten up.

It would be interesting to do a poll and see just how many posters on here are active on Facebook or Twitter.
For the record, I use neither.
lighten up?  Why, is abuse a matter for light-heartedness in your view?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 07:50:33 PM
Not every McCann supporter is an abuser per se but many if not most quite happily post alongside abusers, share jokes with them. follow them on twitter or are facebook friends, etc Rarely will these supporters question the behaviour and vile sentiments being expressed by the abusers - they will either turn a blind eye or laugh along with it (which makes them accessories to abuse in my opinion)
Who are these McCann supporter abusers then?  Let's see a twitter timeline from one to rival JillyCL or the deranged Pillow then.  Or how about a McCann supporters FB page that contains the same level of abuse as the "Controversy" FB page?  Let's see if your predictable attempt at thowing back my post at me stands up to scrutiny.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
lighten up?  Why, is abuse a matter for light-heartedness in your view?

I view it as something to be ignored if it is not aimed at oneself.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 07:57:33 PM
I view it as something to be ignored if it is not aimed at oneself.
So you were one of those kids who sauntered off hands in pockets whistling nonchalantly while Billy the Bully was kicking crap out of Horace Wimp in the playground then.  I getcha!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: jassi on October 20, 2014, 08:00:53 PM
So you were one of those kids who sauntered off hands in pockets whistling nonchalantly while Billy the Bully was kicking crap out of Horace Wimp in the playground then.  I getcha!

You do have an interesting way with words - strange, but interesting   @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 08:35:46 PM
Who are these McCann supporter abusers then?  Let's see a twitter timeline from one to rival JillyCL or the deranged Pillow then.  Or how about a McCann supporters FB page that contains the same level of abuse as the "Controversy" FB page?  Let's see if your predictable attempt at thowing back my post at me stands up to scrutiny.

You lump together most sceptics with the nutters so why shouldn't we lump most supporters with your nutters.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2014, 08:46:22 PM
It was out of hand not long after facebook was launched; so about eight or nine years ago.
Any electronic conversation between two parties who don't know each other is going to run into trouble; add to that stroppy teenagers having a laugh and and few spiteful people with multiple IDs like Job had boils and what do you get?
A nice witches brew bubbling away even before the world had heard of the McCanns. So now it is imperative to "sort it" because some quasi celebrities are subjected to attack? Well if that's what it takes fair dos but one senses it will continue cos that's the human race for you; just look on here for a good cross section  %£&)**#
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves. Did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. "Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

Would that it was confined to two anonymous parties conversing. 

The problem in many cases is that people whose identities are known are targeted by anonymous deviants. 

This happens whether they are in the public eye or not but in either instance is to be abhorred.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 08:57:56 PM

The problem in many cases is that people whose identities are known are targeted by anonymous deviants. 

Yes, anyone trying to identify anyone online is treading on dangerous ground.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on October 20, 2014, 09:00:21 PM
Yes, anyone trying to identify anyone online is treading on dangerous ground.

Indeed they are.

For every action.........
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 09:10:23 PM
You lump together most sceptics with the nutters so why shouldn't we lump most supporters with your nutters.
Because there simply aren't the equivalents.  in any case I was talking about abusers not just nutters.  Many McCann abusers are not nutters and are actually much revered by sceptics of all varieties.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2014, 09:38:15 PM
Because there simply aren't the equivalents.  in any case I was talking about abusers not just nutters.  Many McCann abusers are not nutters and are actually much revered by sceptics of all varieties.

Trouble is you regard anyone who doubts the McCann's story and voices that doubt as an abuser?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Poppy123 on October 20, 2014, 10:10:04 PM
Could someone refer me to vile/libellous/abusive posts/tweets from McCann supporters please?
Please be specific.
Thanks.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 10:13:33 PM
Trouble is you regard anyone who doubts the McCann's story and voices that doubt as an abuser?
An abuser or an abuse apologist, yes, if you post your "doubts" publicly, and participate in gossip and speculation about all manner of criminal activity that you "sceptics" like to ascribe to your anti-heroes, whilst turning a blind eye to abusers like Rothley Pillow, etc. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on October 20, 2014, 10:18:27 PM
Could someone refer me to vile/libellous/abusive posts/tweets from McCann supporters please?
Please be specific.
Thanks.

I think they have done that.

er

Kate McCann muttering "f****** t*****' in relation to Pavia. 

Vile, abusive, libellous against a poor innocent policeman.  Well, until he was exposed...  8)-)))
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Poppy123 on October 20, 2014, 10:28:00 PM
I think they have done that.

er

Kate McCann muttering "f****** t*****' in relation to Pavia. 

Vile, abusive, libellous against a poor innocent policeman.  Well, until he was exposed...  8)-)))

"Cough"

Any posts from the McCann supporters that are vile, abusive and libellous?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: John on October 20, 2014, 10:46:45 PM
I think they have done that.

er

Kate McCann muttering "f****** t*****' in relation to Pavia. 

Vile, abusive, libellous against a poor innocent policeman.  Well, until he was exposed...  8)-)))

You mean the honey trap and blackmail attempt set by someone using a Facebook account?

www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/mccann-affair-pj-inspector-caught-in.html

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4186129/Maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-Brit-woman.html
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Poppy123 on October 20, 2014, 11:04:31 PM
Where are the abusive, libellous and vile comments from the McCann supporters?
Sorry for being repetitive.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 20, 2014, 11:22:27 PM
Where are the abusive, libellous and vile comments from the McCann supporters?
Sorry for being repetitive.
In fairness there have been one or two.  Bennett used to be on the receiving end on all sorts of libellous nonsense from a well known supporter who started off as a Sceptic Troll. And then we have the infamous example recently of a vile series of tweets made to Brenda Leyland by a person who would seem to be a McCann supporter though their timeline on twitter would suggest it was the first time they had ever made any reference whatsoever to the McCann case, so not a fully paid up shill like what you and I are  @)(++(*  But really, on the supporter side, there is nothing like the scale of abuse, slander, spite, relentless accusation and hatred that emanates by the daily bucket-load from the McCann abusers. 

Ironically, there is now a little group of sceptics planning a revenge dossier which aims to compile all of this supposed supporter abuse  (into a fairly brief pamphlet one would suppose) to send off into the eager, waiting arms of the law, a tit-for-tat move which further exemplifies the total hypocrisy of the doubter movement, who continue to wail and gnash their teeth over the cheek of the original dossier compilers for trying to spoil their fun. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Poppy123 on October 20, 2014, 11:44:12 PM
In fairness there have been one or two.  Bennett used to be on the receiving end on all sorts of libellous nonsense from a well known supporter who started off as a Sceptic Troll. And then we have the infamous example recently of a vile series of tweets made to Brenda Leyland by a person who would seem to be a McCann supporter though their timeline on twitter would suggest it was the first time they had ever made any reference whatsoever to the McCann case, so not a fully paid up shill like what you and I are  @)(++(*  But really, on the supporter side, there is nothing like the scale of abuse, slander, spite, relentless accusation and hatred that emanates by the daily bucket-load from the McCann abusers. 

Ironically, there is now a little group of sceptics planning a revenge dossier which aims to compile all of this supposed supporter abuse  (into a fairly brief pamphlet one would suppose) to send off into the eager, waiting arms of the law, a tit-for-tat move which further exemplifies the total hypocrisy of the doubter movement, who continue to wail and gnash their teeth over the cheek of the original dossier compilers for trying to spoil their fun.

So no widespread abuse/libel and vile comments from the McCann supporters?
Taking Bennett to task is justifiable given the dross he has posted over the years. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on October 20, 2014, 11:59:41 PM
So no widespread abuse/libel and vile comments from the McCann supporters?
Taking Bennett to task is justifiable given the dross he has posted over the years.

I have seen some random posts from "McCann supporters" directed at the opposition which I consider were abusive, one of which was to Brenda L (although I didn't see the conversation which led to the abusive post), but the number is minimal compared to the abuse coming the other way.
I'd also dearly like to know why my every comment on another forum has been recorded by at least one sceptic for the last two years - some dossiers must be a long time in the planning. Big Brother or what?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 21, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
In fairness there have been one or two.  Bennett used to be on the receiving end on all sorts of libellous nonsense from a well known supporter who started off as a Sceptic Troll. And then we have the infamous example recently of a vile series of tweets made to Brenda Leyland by a person who would seem to be a McCann supporter though their timeline on twitter would suggest it was the first time they had ever made any reference whatsoever to the McCann case, so not a fully paid up shill like what you and I are  @)(++(*  But really, on the supporter side, there is nothing like the scale of abuse, slander, spite, relentless accusation and hatred that emanates by the daily bucket-load from the McCann abusers. 

Ironically, there is now a little group of sceptics planning a revenge dossier which aims to compile all of this supposed supporter abuse  (into a fairly brief pamphlet one would suppose) to send off into the eager, waiting arms of the law, a tit-for-tat move which further exemplifies the total hypocrisy of the doubter movement, who continue to wail and gnash their teeth over the cheek of the original dossier compilers for trying to spoil their fun.

“And if they tweet two, three or four thousand tweets against us then we will now tweet 150,000, 180,000, 230,000, 300,000 or 400,000 tweets against them ... The hour will come when one of us will break, and it will not be  us”………………. loud applause.

Oh dear
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on October 21, 2014, 10:08:13 PM
You mean the honey trap and blackmail attempt set by someone using a Facebook account?

www.joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/mccann-affair-pj-inspector-caught-in.html

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4186129/Maddie-cop-sent-sex-pics-to-Brit-woman.html

Curiously Morais pulled her article ...

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: QV on October 21, 2014, 11:19:39 PM
Joana has not pulled/withdrawn her article.  It is still there http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/mccann-affair-pj-inspector-caught-in.html

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: John on October 26, 2014, 01:45:43 AM
Has anyone else noticed that everyone who does something untoward on the internet now is being referred to as a troll by our apparently less than well informed main stream media?  I hasten to add that Sky News appears to be the worst offender.

Inferring that all trolls are abusive is frankly misinformed and wrong.  The original troll is mischievous, devious and disruptive to normal discussion and delights in upsetting others.  Often however this can go too far and this is where the abuse usually enters the arena.  In the early days of this forum I was subjected to abuse by the usual suspects on twitter but I soon realised that the smart response is to block them.  Nothing annoys an abusive troll more than simply being ignored.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on October 26, 2014, 07:13:24 PM
Has anyone else noticed that everyone who does something untoward on the internet now is being referred to as a troll by our apparently less than well informed main stream media?  I hasten to add that Sky News appears to be the worst offender.

Inferring that all trolls are abusive is frankly misinformed and wrong.  The original troll is mischievous, devious and disruptive to normal discussion and delights in upsetting others.  Often however this can go too far and this is where the abuse usually enters the arena.  In the early days of this forum I was subjected to abuse by the usual suspects on twitter but I soon realised that the smart response is to block them.  Nothing annoys an abusive troll more than simply being ignored.

Wonder if HM the Queen will block her twitter trolls?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on January 31, 2015, 06:06:14 PM
Not sure where to put this....

An article in The Sun on trolls featuring an interview with Rosalinda Hutton.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8q2WZjIEAAj8N3.jpg:large
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on February 06, 2015, 01:14:34 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11392109/Twitter-boss-admits-company-sucks-at-tackling-trolls.html

By Agency

10:28AM GMT 05 Feb 2015

Twitter's chief executive has taken personal responsibility for the social media website's problems in dealing with abuse reported by users.

The acknowledgement from Dick Costolo came in an internal memo, in which he said the company should be embarrassed by the way it handles abuse and that it must take stronger action in the future.

"We suck at dealing with abuse and trolls on the platform and we've sucked at it for years," he said. "It's no secret and the rest of the world talks about it every day.

"We lose core user after core user by not addressing simple trolling issues that they face every day.

"I'm frankly ashamed of how poorly we've dealt with this issue during my tenure as CEO. It's absurd. There's no excuse for it. I take full responsibility for not being more aggressive on this front. It's nobody else's fault but mine, and it's embarrassing."
Related Articles

    Britanin's worst Twitter trolls 

    Britain's worst Twitter trolls
    05 Feb 2015

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11393102/Britains-worst-Twitter-trolls.html
 

Mr Costolo's comments came on an internal forum among Twitter employees, after another member of staff raised the question of what more could be done to tackle online abuse in the wake of writer Lindy West speaking about her experiences.

She received comments and abuse on a daily basis and internet trolls even created a Twitter account in the name of her deceased father in order to send insults to her.

"We're going to start kicking these people off right and left and making sure that when they issue their ridiculous attacks, nobody hears them," added Mr Costolo in the memo seen by technology website The Verge. "Everybody on the leadership team knows this is vital."

Stories of abuse, threats and internet trolls have become commonplace on Twitter in recent years.

Robin Williams' daughter, Zelda Williams, left the social platform last year after being sent disturbing images in the wake of her father's suicide.

Feminist critic Anita Sarkeesian was threatened with rape, sexual violence and death by Twitter trolls during the Gamergate saga after she criticised the way women are portrayed in video games.

In the UK, journalist Caroline Criado-Perez also received rape threats after she voiced her support for the campaign to introduce Jane Austen as the new face of the £10 note.

Twitter users Isabella Sorley and John Nimmo admitted sending the messages to Ms Criado-Perez and both were jailed last year.

John Nimmo and Isabella Sorley admitted sending sending rape and murder threats to feminist campaigner Caroline Criado-Perez (PA)

Many believe that Twitter is still not doing enough and, in December, the social platform moved to make the task of reporting abuse easier.

An update saw the process streamlined and fewer steps required in order to report abuse - it used to require filling in a nine-part questionnaire but can now be done in a few steps. Twitter has said that more tools are on the way to further improve the service.

Mr Costolo continued: "Let me be very, very clear about my response here - I take personal responsibility for our failure to deal with this as a company. I thought I did that in my note, so let me reiterate what I said, which is that I take personal responsibility for this. I specifically said 'It's nobody's fault but mine'.

"We have to be able to tell each other the truth, and the truth that everybody in the world knows is that we have not effectively dealt with this problem even remotely to the degree we should have by now, and that's on me and nobody else.

"So now we're going to fix it, and I'm going to take full responsibility for making sure that the people working night and day on this have the resources they need to address the issue, that there are clear lines of responsibility and accountability, and that we don't equivocate in our decisions and choices."

Ms Criado-Perez took to Twitter to agree with Mr Costolo that Twitter "sucks" at dealing with abuse, before defending its efforts.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 06, 2015, 11:34:07 AM

From the Guardian :


Sickipedia, the site where the young Lancashire man Matthew Woods found inspiration to post "jokes" about the missing child April Jones on his Facebook page was "down for maintenance" when I tried to check it out this morning, though I managed to get a glimpse of the kind of content it publishes courtesy of Twitter.

I'll reproduce just one, which should come with the equivalent of one of those taste and decency disclaimers you get on TV: "My dick is a lot like Marmite. My wife hates it when I rub it on her toast". That was from May. That alone should allow you to conclude, if you hadn't already realised from its name, that this site is for the seriously sad and inadequate. That should be the end of the story. The decision of Woods, however, to reproduce "jokes" about April Jones and Madeleine McCann has led him to be sent for 12 weeks to a young offenders' institution. Prior to that he had been taken into protective custody to prevent him being lynched.

Woods pleaded guilty to sending by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive. In mitigation, his lawyer cited a "moment of drunken stupidity", but the presiding magistrate said the comments were so "abhorrent" he deserved the longest sentence the court could hand down. The Crown Prosecution Service confirmed it had reviewed the file and was content with the prosecution going ahead.

Woods's case is by no means an exception. The CPS is currently reviewing its approach to social media in the light of several cases in which substantial sentences have been handed down after people have posted offensive remarks on Twitter and Facebook or sent them directly via email.

These cases have included the 56-day jail sentence for the student who tweeted offensive and racist comments in response to the on-pitch collapse of the Bolton footballer Fabrice Muamba. The latest example is the case of a young man who has been sentenced to a community order for posting the message "all soldiers should die and go to hell" on Facebook after the death of six British soldiers in Afghanistan.

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Perhaps the highest profile case is still the "Twitter joke trial", when 28-year-old Paul Chambers was found guilty of sending a "menacing" tweet for threatening to "blow up" Robin Hood airport near Doncaster after it was closed by snow. That conviction – in a case ridiculously pushed by the CPS – was quashed in the high court, but only after a prolonged legal battle in which he was supported by a number of celebrities.

The judgment that day set what seemed like a new benchmark: "If the person or persons who receive or read it, (the message) or may reasonably be expected to receive, or read it, would brush it aside as a silly joke, or a joke in bad taste, or empty bombastic or ridiculous banter, then it would be a contradiction in terms to describe it as a message of a menacing character."

This was not a case of anything goes, the judges implied, but be careful not to mistake stupidity – no matter how offensive the remarks might be – with criminality.

The same surely applies to the Sickipedia story. Direct incitement to violence is one thing. But we cannot and should not sentence people for bad jokes, poor taste and terrible manners. That is an issue for parents, teachers and, most importantly, peer groups.

In late July, police visited a teenager in Weymouth after he had posted an abusive tweet about the Olympic diver Tom Daley. I commented then that the best response from Daley (who had retweeted the offending missive) and the authorities would have been no response at all. This, I suggested, was the online equivalent of the boy on the park bench or the bore propping up the bar in the pub.

The following day I received an email from a chief constable thanking me. Law enforcement, he suggested, should get on with investigating serious crimes.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 06, 2015, 12:59:35 PM
From the Guardian :


Sickipedia, the site where the young Lancashire man Matthew Woods found inspiration to post "jokes" about the missing child April Jones on his Facebook page was "down for maintenance" when I tried to check it out this morning, though I managed to get a glimpse of the kind of content it publishes courtesy of Twitter.

I'll reproduce just one, which should come with the equivalent of one of those taste and decency disclaimers you get on TV: "My dick is a lot like Marmite. My wife hates it when I rub it on her toast". That was from May. That alone should allow you to conclude, if you hadn't already realised from its name, that this site is for the seriously sad and inadequate. That should be the end of the story. The decision of Woods, however, to reproduce "jokes" about April Jones and Madeleine McCann has led him to be sent for 12 weeks to a young offenders' institution. Prior to that he had been taken into protective custody to prevent him being lynched.

Woods pleaded guilty to sending by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive. In mitigation, his lawyer cited a "moment of drunken stupidity", but the presiding magistrate said the comments were so "abhorrent" he deserved the longest sentence the court could hand down. The Crown Prosecution Service confirmed it had reviewed the file and was content with the prosecution going ahead.

Woods's case is by no means an exception. The CPS is currently reviewing its approach to social media in the light of several cases in which substantial sentences have been handed down after people have posted offensive remarks on Twitter and Facebook or sent them directly via email.

These cases have included the 56-day jail sentence for the student who tweeted offensive and racist comments in response to the on-pitch collapse of the Bolton footballer Fabrice Muamba. The latest example is the case of a young man who has been sentenced to a community order for posting the message "all soldiers should die and go to hell" on Facebook after the death of six British soldiers in Afghanistan.

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Perhaps the highest profile case is still the "Twitter joke trial", when 28-year-old Paul Chambers was found guilty of sending a "menacing" tweet for threatening to "blow up" Robin Hood airport near Doncaster after it was closed by snow. That conviction – in a case ridiculously pushed by the CPS – was quashed in the high court, but only after a prolonged legal battle in which he was supported by a number of celebrities.

The judgment that day set what seemed like a new benchmark: "If the person or persons who receive or read it, (the message) or may reasonably be expected to receive, or read it, would brush it aside as a silly joke, or a joke in bad taste, or empty bombastic or ridiculous banter, then it would be a contradiction in terms to describe it as a message of a menacing character."

This was not a case of anything goes, the judges implied, but be careful not to mistake stupidity – no matter how offensive the remarks might be – with criminality.

The same surely applies to the Sickipedia story. Direct incitement to violence is one thing. But we cannot and should not sentence people for bad jokes, poor taste and terrible manners. That is an issue for parents, teachers and, most importantly, peer groups.

In late July, police visited a teenager in Weymouth after he had posted an abusive tweet about the Olympic diver Tom Daley. I commented then that the best response from Daley (who had retweeted the offending missive) and the authorities would have been no response at all. This, I suggested, was the online equivalent of the boy on the park bench or the bore propping up the bar in the pub.

The following day I received an email from a chief constable thanking me. Law enforcement, he suggested, should get on with investigating serious crimes.

Robert A Heinlein:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
I found that a good guide to prevent ones self looking as stupid as the other party!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on February 06, 2015, 01:05:52 PM

An Internet Troll is someone who mindlessly abuses for kicks.  There is no one like that on this Forum.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 06, 2015, 01:15:02 PM
An Internet Troll is someone who mindlessly abuses for kicks.  There is no one like that on this Forum.

Indeed, I tend to put a little thought into it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 06, 2015, 01:23:53 PM
Indeed, I tend to put a little thought into it.

I was about to ask you for your opinion on the definition of a troll. Could you elucidate?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 06, 2015, 01:32:07 PM
I was about to ask you for your opinion on the definition of a troll. Could you elucidate?

I think it's a matter of opinion.

For example....

"all soldiers should die and go to hell"

That's not trolling.

It's an opinion.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on February 06, 2015, 06:23:27 PM
From the Guardian :


Sickipedia, the site where the young Lancashire man Matthew Woods found inspiration to post "jokes" about the missing child April Jones on his Facebook page was "down for maintenance" when I tried to check it out this morning, though I managed to get a glimpse of the kind of content it publishes courtesy of Twitter.

I'll reproduce just one, which should come with the equivalent of one of those taste and decency disclaimers you get on TV: "My dick is a lot like Marmite. My wife hates it when I rub it on her toast". That was from May. That alone should allow you to conclude, if you hadn't already realised from its name, that this site is for the seriously sad and inadequate. That should be the end of the story. The decision of Woods, however, to reproduce "jokes" about April Jones and Madeleine McCann has led him to be sent for 12 weeks to a young offenders' institution. Prior to that he had been taken into protective custody to prevent him being lynched.

Woods pleaded guilty to sending by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive. In mitigation, his lawyer cited a "moment of drunken stupidity", but the presiding magistrate said the comments were so "abhorrent" he deserved the longest sentence the court could hand down. The Crown Prosecution Service confirmed it had reviewed the file and was content with the prosecution going ahead.

Woods's case is by no means an exception. The CPS is currently reviewing its approach to social media in the light of several cases in which substantial sentences have been handed down after people have posted offensive remarks on Twitter and Facebook or sent them directly via email.

These cases have included the 56-day jail sentence for the student who tweeted offensive and racist comments in response to the on-pitch collapse of the Bolton footballer Fabrice Muamba. The latest example is the case of a young man who has been sentenced to a community order for posting the message "all soldiers should die and go to hell" on Facebook after the death of six British soldiers in Afghanistan.

Advertisement

Perhaps the highest profile case is still the "Twitter joke trial", when 28-year-old Paul Chambers was found guilty of sending a "menacing" tweet for threatening to "blow up" Robin Hood airport near Doncaster after it was closed by snow. That conviction – in a case ridiculously pushed by the CPS – was quashed in the high court, but only after a prolonged legal battle in which he was supported by a number of celebrities.

The judgment that day set what seemed like a new benchmark: "If the person or persons who receive or read it, (the message) or may reasonably be expected to receive, or read it, would brush it aside as a silly joke, or a joke in bad taste, or empty bombastic or ridiculous banter, then it would be a contradiction in terms to describe it as a message of a menacing character."

This was not a case of anything goes, the judges implied, but be careful not to mistake stupidity – no matter how offensive the remarks might be – with criminality.

The same surely applies to the Sickipedia story. Direct incitement to violence is one thing. But we cannot and should not sentence people for bad jokes, poor taste and terrible manners. That is an issue for parents, teachers and, most importantly, peer groups.

In late July, police visited a teenager in Weymouth after he had posted an abusive tweet about the Olympic diver Tom Daley. I commented then that the best response from Daley (who had retweeted the offending missive) and the authorities would have been no response at all. This, I suggested, was the online equivalent of the boy on the park bench or the bore propping up the bar in the pub.

The following day I received an email from a chief constable thanking me. Law enforcement, he suggested, should get on with investigating serious crimes.

I do think anyone visiting sickened is and similar sites should not really be surprised at the content. It's a bit like going into an Adult Shop and being outraged by a vibrator.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on February 06, 2015, 06:29:23 PM
I think it's a matter of opinion.

For example....

"all soldiers should die and go to hell"

That's not trolling.

It's an opinion.

If it's addressed to a soldier, it's trolling.

If it's a generic statement, yes, you'd probably get away with it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 11:19:07 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11390745/Britains-vilest-troll-Im-here-to-expose-hypocrisy.html

From the article :


"Yet Ambridge insists there are far more dangerous trolls than him – and points the finger of blame at the “pack mentality” of “victims” which he believes will end in more loss of life like that of Brenda Leyland. Leyland, 63, was found dead soon after she was exposed as an online troll who sent abusive tweets to Kate and Gerry McCann.

“Nobody wears the victim badge more readily than the British,” he says. “If you loudly declare yourself a victim then others will clamour to defend you in the faint hope that their 'moral compass' will be seen to be shinier than their sinful neighbours. You can instantly join their collective and become part of the hysterical digital mob – safe in the comfort and security of not standing on your own.

“It’s the screeching mob we should be scared of. When these people descend it is brutal – and in Brenda Leyland’s case it proved fatal. It’s faux democracy by the mob and it’s a powerful and dangerous thing.

“It is grim and it’s unchartered territory. It’s Middle Ages stuff: burn the witch, burn the heretic. The flaming torches, the pitchfork mob. If you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong comment then you can pay dearly for it. Imagine making an unpopular remark at a garden party and the assembled guests decide to harass your wife, family, employers and clients until they decided ‘justice has been served’.

“It is an addiction to some because it empowers the little people that don’t normally feel they have a voice or a cause, and suddenly they have tremendous power within a mob. They’ve never tasted that before. They proudly proclaim ‘we got him!” It’s very similar to obsessive tribalism or religious fundamentalism."
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on February 07, 2015, 11:23:55 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11390745/Britains-vilest-troll-Im-here-to-expose-hypocrisy.html

From the article :


"Yet Ambridge insists there are far more dangerous trolls than him – and points the finger of blame at the “pack mentality” of “victims” which he believes will end in more loss of life like that of Brenda Leyland. Leyland, 63, was found dead soon after she was exposed as an online troll who sent abusive tweets to Kate and Gerry McCann.

“Nobody wears the victim badge more readily than the British,” he says. “If you loudly declare yourself a victim then others will clamour to defend you in the faint hope that their 'moral compass' will be seen to be shinier than their sinful neighbours. You can instantly join their collective and become part of the hysterical digital mob – safe in the comfort and security of not standing on your own.

“It’s the screeching mob we should be scared of. When these people descend it is brutal – and in Brenda Leyland’s case it proved fatal. It’s faux democracy by the mob and it’s a powerful and dangerous thing.

“It is grim and it’s unchartered territory. It’s Middle Ages stuff: burn the witch, burn the heretic. The flaming torches, the pitchfork mob. If you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong comment then you can pay dearly for it. Imagine making an unpopular remark at a garden party and the assembled guests decide to harass your wife, family, employers and clients until they decided ‘justice has been served’.

“It is an addiction to some because it empowers the little people that don’t normally feel they have a voice or a cause, and suddenly they have tremendous power within a mob. They’ve never tasted that before. They proudly proclaim ‘we got him!” It’s very similar to obsessive tribalism or religious fundamentalism."

he is absolutely right when he talks of [ censored word ].......his commemts sum up those that harass the mccanns...for which Brenda was part of the mob
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 01:41:28 PM
he is absolutely right when he talks of [ censored word ].......his commemts sum up those that harass the mccanns...for which Brenda was part of the mob

There is some truth in that davel, but to be more accurate you should say 'a mob' (there are two).

But the Ambridge bloke hits the nail on head when talking about what it is the government (and political class) really don't like about social media. The narrative will be about 'trolls' but when the internet impacts on the ability of government to bomb people in faraway lands, that's what they really can't allow to carry on.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
There is some truth in that davel, but to be more accurate you should say 'a mob' (there are two).

But the Ambridge bloke hits the nail on head when talking about what it is the government (and political class) really don't like about social media. The narrative will be about 'trolls' but when the internet impacts on the ability of government to bomb people in faraway lands, that's what they really can't allow to carry on.

Everyone seems to have a personal view on what's acceptable or not, whatever the subject.

There doesn't appear to be any consensus as to where one person's rights impinge on the rights of the other.




Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 03:36:11 PM
Everyone seems to have a personal view on what's acceptable or not, whatever the subject.

There doesn't appear to be any consensus as to where one person's rights impinge on the rights of the other.

Further complicated by most social media platforms (I think) being based in the US. If Twitter had been the brainchild of a Brit it would have been 'controlled' years ago.

But I think the American government (and political class) may view social media differently to the British. Ours may think removing online anonymity is a brilliant idea, but that may not be a cool idea in the US.

There are already laws to deal with 'trolls', as can be seen from some of the above articles. The problem for the McCanns is that there are too many, and the action Sky News took made things even worse (it was imo very idiotic).

But if people like Sara Payne are forced to abandon social media you can be sure the Parliamentarians will want to do something more.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 04:05:52 PM
Further complicated by most social media platforms (I think) being based in the US. If Twitter had been the brainchild of a Brit it would have been 'controlled' years ago.

But I think the American government (and political class) may view social media differently to the British. Ours may think removing online anonymity is a brilliant idea, but that may not be a cool idea in the US.

There are already laws to deal with 'trolls', as can be seen from some of the above articles. The problem for the McCanns is that there are too many, and the action Sky News took made things even worse (it was imo very idiotic).

But if people like Sara Payne are forced to abandon social media you can be sure the Parliamentarians will want to do something more.

Not sure how intelligent a government would be to sacrifice the rights of the many because of the targeting of the few.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 04:19:40 PM
Not sure how intelligent a government would be to sacrifice the rights of the many because of the targeting of the few.

The way they see it (or at least sell it) is they aren't, they're only legislating ways to punish the minority of idiots if current laws aren't working.

You and I - and most people - know very well there are boundaries, but some clearly don't.

Sara Payne isn't just an individual, she represents an interest group. So do the feminists who have been similarly targeted. Most of those targeted are probably women, and that's of course one of the most powerful interest groups.

They will be lobbying.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 07, 2015, 04:51:14 PM
The way they see it (or at least sell it) is they aren't, they're only legislating ways to punish the minority of idiots if current laws aren't working.

You and I - and most people - know very well there are boundaries, but some clearly don't.

Sara Payne isn't just an individual, she represents an interest group. So do the feminists who have been similarly targeted. Most of those targeted are probably women, and that's of course one of the most powerful interest groups.

They will be lobbying.

There will always be a hardcore minority who will do things regardless of laws to prevent them.
Most laws will only deter people who are fundamentally honest and decent. imo
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on February 07, 2015, 04:52:02 PM
The way they see it (or at least sell it) is they aren't, they're only legislating ways to punish the minority of idiots if current laws aren't working.

You and I - and most people - know very well there are boundaries, but some clearly don't.

Sara Payne isn't just an individual, she represents an interest group. So do the feminists who have been similarly targeted. Most of those targeted are probably women, and that's of course one of the most powerful interest groups.

They will be lobbying.

This is true.  I don't need the right to Free Speech because I never abuse it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 04:56:41 PM
What I object to is people who claim to be "the voice of Madeleine" in the name of "truth" and "justice".

Everyone wants truth and justice for Madeleine...  aside from the person or persons who were responsible for her disappearance.

There are those who claim to know the "truth", that has apparently been "censored" by the UK press. It wasn't: some of the UK press had to pay dearly for repeating allegations...

Why? Because they couldn't be substantiated.

For some, the "truth" appears to be primarily based on initial propaganda, the interim report, later spoutings by someone with an agenda, and that anything else subsequent to that is whitewash.

In what way is that different to declaring that the Holocaust never happened and that Hitler won WWII?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 05:02:01 PM
There will always be a hardcore minority who will do things regardless of laws to prevent them.
Most laws will only deter people who are fundamentally honest and decent. imo

Grayling thinks the prospect of two years in prison might deter them. Who knows &%+((£

The Bill is just waiting for the monarch to stay up all night for a week reading it before she signs (as she always does naturally @)(++(*)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
What I object to is people who claim to be "the voice of Madeleine" in the name of "truth" and "justice".

Everyone wants truth and justice for Madeleine...  aside from the person or persons who were responsible for her disappearance.

There are those who claim to know the "truth", that has apparently been "censored" by the UK press. It wasn't: some of the UK press had to pay dearly for repeating allegations...

Why? Because they couldn't be substantiated.

For some, the "truth" appears to be primarily based on initial propaganda, the interim report, later spoutings by someone with an agenda, and that anything else subsequent to that is whitewash.

In what way is that different to declaring that the Holocaust never happened and that Hilter won WWII?

Not good analogies Carana. Both your examples  have been proved to have happened, an abduction hasn't.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 05:08:58 PM
Not good analogies Carana. Both your examples  have been proved to have happened, an abduction hasn't.

The child still hasn't been found. In the context of the analogy, WWII isn't over and Hitler's supporters are still out there.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 05:16:13 PM
What I object to is people who claim to be "the voice of Madeleine" in the name of "truth" and "justice".

Everyone wants truth and justice for Madeleine...  aside from the person or persons who were responsible for her disappearance.

There are those who claim to know the "truth", that has apparently been "censored" by the UK press. It wasn't: some of the UK press had to pay dearly for repeating allegations...

Why? Because they couldn't be substantiated.

For some, the "truth" appears to be primarily based on initial propaganda, the interim report, later spoutings by someone with an agenda, and that anything else subsequent to that is whitewash.

In what way is that different to declaring that the Holocaust never happened and that Hitler won WWII?

People are free to think and say both, but not free to act just as they may wish based on those beliefs.

You could never stop people thinking the McCanns know what happened to Madeleine. The problem is there are so many who do, and that's because this case is so unique in the UK. If it weren't not so many people would be so interested. But it is and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 05:30:38 PM
People are free to think and say both, but not free to act just as they may wish based on those beliefs.

You could never stop people thinking the McCanns know what happened to Madeleine. The problem is there are so many who do, and that's because this case is so unique in the UK. If it weren't not so many people would be so interested. But it is and there's nothing anyone can do about that.

I have no problem with what people think, unless they were so convinced that she is dead that they wouldn't even think of reporting a sighting (and yes, I'm aware of the tabloid excess that really hasn't helped).

ETA: And, yes, I do have a problem with people who attack this family, based on nothing other than opinion, in itself fuelled by others with an agenda.

But what about potential strange noises coming from a cellar somewhere? If you were convinced that she was dead, would you bother reporting it? Would you think that it is just a child playing and therefore of no importance?

That is how other children have been found.

Cops were SO close to finding two of the Dutroux victims alive... but they dismissed the cries that they heard as irrelevant. How sad is that?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 07, 2015, 05:33:40 PM
Not good analogies Carana. Both your examples  have been proved to have happened, an abduction hasn't.
Not as far as Holocaust deniers are concerned they haven't - and there are literally millions of those in the world.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 05:38:55 PM
I have no problem with what people think, unless they were so convinced that she is dead that they wouldn't even think of reporting a sighting (and yes, I'm aware of the tabloid excess that really hasn't helped).

ETA: And, yes, I do have a problem with people who attack this family, based on nothing other than opinion, in itself fuelled by others with an agenda.

But what about potential strange noises coming from a cellar somewhere? If you were convinced that she was dead, would you bother reporting it? Would you think that it is just a child playing and therefore of no importance?

That is how other children have been found.

Cops were SO close to finding two of the Dutroux children alive... but they dismissed the cries that they heard as irrelevant. How sad is that?

It's very sad. But in a similar situation now or in the future if someone had suspicions a child may be somewhere, they wouldn't dismiss it based on their opinion of the McCann case would they. They'd have no idea who the child may be, as unfortunately many more children go missing than just Madeleine. Almost all of whom we never hear about because they aren't British, but everyone knows trafficking etc. goes on. So I don't think opinion on this case makes any difference to how people would act if they saw or heard something.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 05:44:14 PM
Not as far as Holocaust deniers are concerned they haven't - and there are literally millions of those in the world.

There is overwhelming evidence that the Holcaust happened. Unfortunately the same can't be said for Madeleine's abduction, unless of course you know differently ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 05:45:52 PM
The child still hasn't been found. In the context of the analogy, WWII isn't over and Hitler's supporters are still out there.

Now you're just being silly Carana.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
It's very sad. But in a similar situation now or in the future if someone had suspicions a child may be somewhere, they wouldn't dismiss it based on their opinion of the McCann case would they. They'd have no idea who the child may be, as unfortunately many more children go missing than just Madeleine. Almost all of whom we never hear about because they aren't British, but everyone knows trafficking etc. goes on. So I don't think opinion on this case makes any difference to how people would act if they saw or heard something.

Propaganda can make quite a difference, even in this case.

In the Dutroux case, cops were sent to investigate a potential lead in the case of these missing kids... but it didn't occur to them that the cries that they heard could have been two of the little girls that they were supposed to be looking for.

These were cops!!!

Not just a passerby who may have had a fleeting thought and dismissed the possibiity, particularly if they had been led by the press to believe that there was no hope of finding them alive anyway.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 05:56:02 PM
Propaganda can make quite a difference, even in this case.

In the Dutroux case, cops were sent to investigate a potential lead in the case of these missing kids... but it didn't occur to them that the cries that they heard could have been two of the little girls that they were supposed to be looking for.

These were cops!!!

Not just a passerby who may have had a fleeting thought and dismissed the possibiity, particularly if they had been led by the press to believe that there was no hope of finding them alive anyway.

Then those cops were idiots. Most people if they heard something would act on it because the child or children could be from anywhere, or be children not even missing (noise or cries could be coming from a family home).

You wouldn't hear something and dismiss it because of your opinion on this case, or other well-known cases.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 06:00:38 PM
Propaganda can make quite a difference, even in this case.

In the Dutroux case, cops were sent to investigate a potential lead in the case of these missing kids... but it didn't occur to them that the cries that they heard could have been two of the little girls that they were supposed to be looking for.

These were cops!!!

Not just a passerby who may have had a fleeting thought and dismissed the possibiity, particularly if they had been led by the press to believe that there was no hope of finding them alive anyway.

If you want to make your point Carana why use a case where it was gross stupidity rather than propoganda which left the young girls undiscovered ?

Could it be because you have no relevant example ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 06:01:37 PM
Now you're just being silly Carana.

That's your opinion.

I'm not suggesting comparing the Holocaust to the disappearance of a single child, obviously, as that would be disrespectful to the millions who did die, IMO.

My point is about the propaganda that led people to believe that the Holocaust was a myth, that the propaganda that supported the denial was a myth, and that people who continue to deny it should be allowed to do so in the name of freedom of speech.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 06:19:48 PM
If you want to make your point Carana why use a case where it was gross stupidity rather than propoganda which left the young girls undiscovered ?

Could it be because you have no relevant example ?

How can it be determined whether two cops were incredibly naive (hadn't been sufficiently trained, hadn't been given sufficient information) or had been led to believe that the kids were dead and were therefore less attentive to potential indications that they were indeed being held somewhere?

The Dutroux case is complex. And it led to a massive overhaul of the entire Belgian police system.

That said, I doubt that the UK officers who found Shannon really believed that the tip concerning a house was anything more than a routine check, and they could easily have missed her as well.

Police officers are human, after all. Hope is no doubt high in the beginning, but that hope no doubt deflates as time goes on and newer cases have to be dealt with. That's probably natural. However, if your superiors are also giving out vibes that it's a lost cause, then how easy is it to maintain enthusiasm?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2015, 06:22:51 PM
How can it be determined whether two cops were incredibly naive (hadn't been sufficiently trained, hadn't been given sufficient information) or had been led to believe that the kids were dead and were therefore less attentive to potential indications that they were indeed being held somewhere?

The Dutroux case is complex. And it led to a massive overhaul of the entire Belgian police system.

That said, I doubt that the UK officers who found Shannon really believed that the tip concerning a house was anything more than a routine check, and they could easily have missed her as well.

Police officers are human, after all. Hope is no doubt high in the beginning, but that hope no doubt deflates as time goes on and newer cases have to be dealt with. That's probably natural. However, if your superiors are also giving out vibes that it's a lost cause, then how easy is it to maintain enthusiasm?

Yet again Carana you're masquarading opinion and supposition as fact. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 07, 2015, 06:41:35 PM
Grayling thinks the prospect of two years in prison might deter them. Who knows &%+((£

The Bill is just waiting for the monarch to stay up all night for a week reading it before she signs (as she always does naturally @)(++(*)
Grayling* is a politician; nuff said. If it was an odds on racing certainty of being caught prosecuted and receiving a draconian sentence it might work. Otherwise probably not.
* It is also a sort of freshwater fish.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 06:57:55 PM
Grayling* is a politician; nuff said. If it was an odds on racing certainty of being caught prosecuted and receiving a draconian sentence it might work. Otherwise probably not.
* It is also a sort of freshwater fish.

They can catch people in hours when they want to (as recent folk in trouble for making jokes about tragedies can testify). The machinery for that is already there.

I'm not 100% that Grayling managed to get the two years into the Bill tbh, but I can't find word that he didn't. So I'm assuming he did, and sooner or later someone's going to be made an example.

Two years. Ouch! 8)><(
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on February 07, 2015, 07:07:49 PM
Yet again Carana you're masquarading opinion and supposition as fact.

And what have those who leafleted their village just as the twins were about to start school, have advocated waterboarding the McCanns, firebombing their home, kidnapping the twins, sending hatemail via post or Internet, etc., etc., based their "knowledge" on?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 07, 2015, 07:34:19 PM
And what have those who leafleted their village just as the twins were about to start school, have advocated waterboarding the McCanns, firebombing their home, kidnapping the twins, sending hatemail via post or Internet, etc., etc., based their "knowledge" on?

Nothing other than it is a useful "cause" to pretend to belong to in order to "justify" being an anti social trouble maker in general.
Being old and cynical leads me to this view; slightly tongue in cheek but the anti hunting with dogs brigade had to go somewhere.
 
Have a read of this to see how unpleasant people can be when they are zealots for a cause.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4762481.stm
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 07, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
Point them to Raul Hilberg's work, from back in the day when historians weren't also politicians.
I can assure you there is absolutely NOTHING that will dissuade a H.D. from his / her beliefs.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on February 07, 2015, 08:45:15 PM
I can assure you there is absolutely NOTHING that will dissuade a H.D. from his / her beliefs.

I know, but there's not much you can do with that kind of folk. Life's too short %£&)**#
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 27, 2015, 12:14:34 AM
http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/26/facebook-troll-who-mocked-dead-children-and-made-comments-about-madeleine-mccann-faces-jail-5313878/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on July 27, 2015, 02:27:29 AM
So?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 09:44:56 AM
http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/26/facebook-troll-who-mocked-dead-children-and-made-comments-about-madeleine-mccann-faces-jail-5313878/

At least Mr Milligan may have had a bit of an excuse for his odd behaviour ... Quote: Milligan, who suffers from Asperger’s syndrome, was supported in court by an appropriate adult, who made sure he understood the legal process. Unquote
http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/26/facebook-troll-who-mocked-dead-children-and-made-comments-about-madeleine-mccann-faces-jail-5313878/#ixzz3h4ynyP75

What excuse do those who consider themselves 100% responsible for their own actions have?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 27, 2015, 11:11:56 AM
And what have those who leafleted their village just as the twins were about to start school, have advocated waterboarding the McCanns, firebombing their home, kidnapping the twins, sending hatemail via post or Internet, etc., etc., based their "knowledge" on?

Those creatures do not have 'knowledge' they have an agenda.They are dispicable cretins who would have been arrested if they were making those threats! If the evidence is there, then please forward it to the LP...
We do have harrassment laws. The McCANNS could have had an injunction against that crew and their leader. (They had access to great legal teams afterall)!

 If it is just 'hot air'  what is your agenda?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 11:21:20 AM

There are many "innocents" like Mr Milligan on social media ... who may be encouraged by reading some of the fantastical comments posted by others who should know better to take regrettable actions directed at the object of the general opprobrium.

Mr Milligan required to be accompanied in court by a responsible adult ... I think people should take a step back and think about that ... or is that perhaps the internet troll agenda, making the balls for someone else to fire.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 27, 2015, 11:42:07 AM
Do we have the full SP on why Mr Milligan faces jail?
I guess that has more to do with threatening rape rather than making distasteful comments about Madeleine McCann and Mikaeel Kular.
I love Brietta's idea of a Machiavellian character behind Mr Milligan putting him up to it.
Is that just the distasteful comments, Brie, or the rape threat as well?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 12:23:19 PM
There are some who have been indulging themselves in an eight year long "questioning fest" of the Drs McCann for obscure reasons known only to themselves.

Within those ranks it is possible there are those who haven't given rational thought to the longer reaching consequences of their on-line activities.



WE'VE BEEN GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE OF DESPAIR
 
As part of her research, in July 2013 Carol Ann Lee contacted Colin Caffell, Sheila’s former husband and the father of her twins. It came shortly after the European Court of Human Rights ruled against the ‘whole life’ sentence imposed on Bamber and two others. Here is his moving reply...


‘I have remained silent through many years of Jeremy Bamber’s perennial intrusions into our lives because I have been endeavouring to create a normal life for my new family who have nothing to do with my tragic past.

Despite my best endeavours to shield them, however, they have had to live under its shadow.
The new ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, against the setting of “whole life tariffs” as “inhumane”, not only potentially places the lives of myself, my family and the families of all those who fought for Jeremy’s conviction in very real danger (and the public in general in the case of other dangerous “whole lifers” who are also seeking parole) but undermines our democracy and strikes at the very heart of what is globally recognised as one of the finest and fairest justice systems in the world.

‘It is perhaps a blessing for my family that, despite a fair trial in 1986 and a later appeal before three judges who determined that new evidence made Bamber’s original conviction “even safer”, he has refused to admit his guilt and therefore does not meet the Strasbourg court’s criteria of “progressing towards rehabilitation”.

‘Bamber has proved himself an extremely dangerous and devious man who will clearly remain that way, having shown no sign of remorse or contrition for murdering five members of his family for financial gain. That is “inhumane”. Any “depression and despair” he has said that he feels may be the beginning of him coming to terms with the fact that he has lost his spurious battle with justice; something most “lifers” begin to accept much earlier on in their sentences. It is not inhumane to have to face that – they need to – but it is inhumane to make victims and their families live a life sentence of uncertainty. The victims’ families have to truly face overwhelming loss, depression and despair.

It is also inhumane that our daughter and her friends, at the age of 11, Googled her name only to be confronted with Bamber’s website that included photographs of bullet wounds to my former wife’s neck. My daughter would understandably like to change her name.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3h5SsUNQz




The AG's report effectively closed the door on any excuse for anyone to set themselves up as judge jury and executioner for the Drs McCann who despite everything Mr Amaral's investigation could throw at them produced not one single shred of evidence pointing to their guilt.

A situation verified by the subsequent Rebello investigation

At the moment Madeleine McCann's re-opened case is in the safe hands of police from two jurisdictions on the basis of fresh evidence ... which yet again ... does not implicate her parents, as evidenced by the fact the investigations have formally directed their enquiries elsewhere.

Madeleine has siblings who have been treated in cavalier fashion by unthinking (if it is deliberate it is even more heinous) fashion by internet trolls ... who have not considered the effect their ravings may have on two innocent children who cannot fail to come across them.

Colin Caffell's description of the effect just googling her name has had on his daughter should be a salutary lesson, but there again there are some very weird opinions swimming about on the www.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 27, 2015, 01:21:52 PM
There are some who have been indulging themselves in an eight year long "questioning fest" of the Drs McCann for obscure reasons known only to themselves.

Within those ranks it is possible there are those who haven't given rational thought to the longer reaching consequences of their on-line activities.



WE'VE BEEN GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE OF DESPAIR
 
As part of her research, in July 2013 Carol Ann Lee contacted Colin Caffell, Sheila’s former husband and the father of her twins. It came shortly after the European Court of Human Rights ruled against the ‘whole life’ sentence imposed on Bamber and two others. Here is his moving reply...


‘I have remained silent through many years of Jeremy Bamber’s perennial intrusions into our lives because I have been endeavouring to create a normal life for my new family who have nothing to do with my tragic past.

Despite my best endeavours to shield them, however, they have had to live under its shadow.
The new ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, against the setting of “whole life tariffs” as “inhumane”, not only potentially places the lives of myself, my family and the families of all those who fought for Jeremy’s conviction in very real danger (and the public in general in the case of other dangerous “whole lifers” who are also seeking parole) but undermines our democracy and strikes at the very heart of what is globally recognised as one of the finest and fairest justice systems in the world.

‘It is perhaps a blessing for my family that, despite a fair trial in 1986 and a later appeal before three judges who determined that new evidence made Bamber’s original conviction “even safer”, he has refused to admit his guilt and therefore does not meet the Strasbourg court’s criteria of “progressing towards rehabilitation”.

‘Bamber has proved himself an extremely dangerous and devious man who will clearly remain that way, having shown no sign of remorse or contrition for murdering five members of his family for financial gain. That is “inhumane”. Any “depression and despair” he has said that he feels may be the beginning of him coming to terms with the fact that he has lost his spurious battle with justice; something most “lifers” begin to accept much earlier on in their sentences. It is not inhumane to have to face that – they need to – but it is inhumane to make victims and their families live a life sentence of uncertainty. The victims’ families have to truly face overwhelming loss, depression and despair.

It is also inhumane that our daughter and her friends, at the age of 11, Googled her name only to be confronted with Bamber’s website that included photographs of bullet wounds to my former wife’s neck. My daughter would understandably like to change her name.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3h5SsUNQz




The AG's report effectively closed the door on any excuse for anyone to set themselves up as judge jury and executioner for the Drs McCann who despite everything Mr Amaral's investigation could throw at them produced not one single shred of evidence pointing to their guilt.

A situation verified by the subsequent Rebello investigation

At the moment Madeleine McCann's re-opened case is in the safe hands of police from two jurisdictions on the basis of fresh evidence ... which yet again ... does not implicate her parents, as evidenced by the fact the investigations have formally directed their enquiries elsewhere.

Madeleine has siblings who have been treated in cavalier fashion by unthinking (if it is deliberate it is even more heinous) fashion by internet trolls ... who have not considered the effect their ravings may have on two innocent children who cannot fail to come across them.

Colin Caffell's description of the effect just googling her name has had on his daughter should be a salutary lesson, but there again there are some very weird opinions swimming about on the www.

Do you think a global principle should apply to this lack of rational thought to consequences or should it apply only to those considered worthy on some kind of arbitrary scale ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2015, 01:38:15 PM
There are some who have been indulging themselves in an eight year long "questioning fest" of the Drs McCann for obscure reasons known only to themselves.

Within those ranks it is possible there are those who haven't given rational thought to the longer reaching consequences of their on-line activities.



WE'VE BEEN GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE OF DESPAIR
 
As part of her research, in July 2013 Carol Ann Lee contacted Colin Caffell, Sheila’s former husband and the father of her twins. It came shortly after the European Court of Human Rights ruled against the ‘whole life’ sentence imposed on Bamber and two others. Here is his moving reply...


‘I have remained silent through many years of Jeremy Bamber’s perennial intrusions into our lives because I have been endeavouring to create a normal life for my new family who have nothing to do with my tragic past.

Despite my best endeavours to shield them, however, they have had to live under its shadow.
The new ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, against the setting of “whole life tariffs” as “inhumane”, not only potentially places the lives of myself, my family and the families of all those who fought for Jeremy’s conviction in very real danger (and the public in general in the case of other dangerous “whole lifers” who are also seeking parole) but undermines our democracy and strikes at the very heart of what is globally recognised as one of the finest and fairest justice systems in the world.

‘It is perhaps a blessing for my family that, despite a fair trial in 1986 and a later appeal before three judges who determined that new evidence made Bamber’s original conviction “even safer”, he has refused to admit his guilt and therefore does not meet the Strasbourg court’s criteria of “progressing towards rehabilitation”.

‘Bamber has proved himself an extremely dangerous and devious man who will clearly remain that way, having shown no sign of remorse or contrition for murdering five members of his family for financial gain. That is “inhumane”. Any “depression and despair” he has said that he feels may be the beginning of him coming to terms with the fact that he has lost his spurious battle with justice; something most “lifers” begin to accept much earlier on in their sentences. It is not inhumane to have to face that – they need to – but it is inhumane to make victims and their families live a life sentence of uncertainty. The victims’ families have to truly face overwhelming loss, depression and despair.

It is also inhumane that our daughter and her friends, at the age of 11, Googled her name only to be confronted with Bamber’s website that included photographs of bullet wounds to my former wife’s neck. My daughter would understandably like to change her name.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3h5SsUNQz




The AG's report effectively closed the door on any excuse for anyone to set themselves up as judge jury and executioner for the Drs McCann who despite everything Mr Amaral's investigation could throw at them produced not one single shred of evidence pointing to their guilt.

A situation verified by the subsequent Rebello investigation

At the moment Madeleine McCann's re-opened case is in the safe hands of police from two jurisdictions on the basis of fresh evidence ... which yet again ... does not implicate her parents, as evidenced by the fact the investigations have formally directed their enquiries elsewhere.

Madeleine has siblings who have been treated in cavalier fashion by unthinking (if it is deliberate it is even more heinous) fashion by internet trolls ... who have not considered the effect their ravings may have on two innocent children who cannot fail to come across them.

Colin Caffell's description of the effect just googling her name has had on his daughter should be a salutary lesson, but there again there are some very weird opinions swimming about on the www.

Now she can just read The Mail. Certain people become news for different reasons. Children have to learn lessons about the world at some point. It could be a newspaper, a book in the library, a google search or school mates. It's unfortunate but it's something people have to deal with in the best way they can. Is Jeremy Bamber an internet troll? I think not, so the post is off topic.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: carlymichelle on July 27, 2015, 01:45:10 PM
its simple if the mcanns dont want the twins to see read things they need to put a net filter on their computers and  suppervise their  remaining kids .......  oh wait...
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 04:16:26 PM
Do you think a global principle should apply to this lack of rational thought to consequences or should it apply only to those considered worthy on some kind of arbitrary scale ?

I presume "those considered worthy" is a reference to the Drs McCann.

If there are individuals who are incapable of lucidly working out that their unceasingly excoriating campaigns for "justice" for one child may eventually have a damaging effect on other children in the same family ... what sort of "arbitrary scale"  would you think appropriate to put them on?

The child I mentioned in my initial post was so upset at the association she discovered on-line that she wanted to change her name.

Is any thought given to the stealing of the innocence of Madeleine's siblings who are going to have to be inured by gradual exposure to the evil which has been written about the parents who have nurtured them ... as well as the comments which have been directed at them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on July 27, 2015, 05:48:35 PM
There are some who have been indulging themselves in an eight year long "questioning fest" of the Drs McCann for obscure reasons known only to themselves.

Within those ranks it is possible there are those who haven't given rational thought to the longer reaching consequences of their on-line activities.



WE'VE BEEN GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE OF DESPAIR
 
As part of her research, in July 2013 Carol Ann Lee contacted Colin Caffell, Sheila’s former husband and the father of her twins. It came shortly after the European Court of Human Rights ruled against the ‘whole life’ sentence imposed on Bamber and two others. Here is his moving reply...


‘I have remained silent through many years of Jeremy Bamber’s perennial intrusions into our lives because I have been endeavouring to create a normal life for my new family who have nothing to do with my tragic past.

Despite my best endeavours to shield them, however, they have had to live under its shadow.
The new ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, against the setting of “whole life tariffs” as “inhumane”, not only potentially places the lives of myself, my family and the families of all those who fought for Jeremy’s conviction in very real danger (and the public in general in the case of other dangerous “whole lifers” who are also seeking parole) but undermines our democracy and strikes at the very heart of what is globally recognised as one of the finest and fairest justice systems in the world.

‘It is perhaps a blessing for my family that, despite a fair trial in 1986 and a later appeal before three judges who determined that new evidence made Bamber’s original conviction “even safer”, he has refused to admit his guilt and therefore does not meet the Strasbourg court’s criteria of “progressing towards rehabilitation”.

‘Bamber has proved himself an extremely dangerous and devious man who will clearly remain that way, having shown no sign of remorse or contrition for murdering five members of his family for financial gain. That is “inhumane”. Any “depression and despair” he has said that he feels may be the beginning of him coming to terms with the fact that he has lost his spurious battle with justice; something most “lifers” begin to accept much earlier on in their sentences. It is not inhumane to have to face that – they need to – but it is inhumane to make victims and their families live a life sentence of uncertainty. The victims’ families have to truly face overwhelming loss, depression and despair.

It is also inhumane that our daughter and her friends, at the age of 11, Googled her name only to be confronted with Bamber’s website that included photographs of bullet wounds to my former wife’s neck. My daughter would understandably like to change her name.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3166636/Bamber-slaughtered-family-25-bullets-told-girlfriend-s-going-years-investigation-leading-author-tell-exactly-happened-night-White-House-Farm-massacre.html#ixzz3h5SsUNQz




The AG's report effectively closed the door on any excuse for anyone to set themselves up as judge jury and executioner for the Drs McCann who despite everything Mr Amaral's investigation could throw at them produced not one single shred of evidence pointing to their guilt.

A situation verified by the subsequent Rebello investigation

At the moment Madeleine McCann's re-opened case is in the safe hands of police from two jurisdictions on the basis of fresh evidence ... which yet again ... does not implicate her parents, as evidenced by the fact the investigations have formally directed their enquiries elsewhere.

Madeleine has siblings who have been treated in cavalier fashion by unthinking (if it is deliberate it is even more heinous) fashion by internet trolls ... who have not considered the effect their ravings may have on two innocent children who cannot fail to come across them.

Colin Caffell's description of the effect just googling her name has had on his daughter should be a salutary lesson, but there again there are some very weird opinions swimming about on the www.

Now we have Brietta's caustic and accusatory generic link between a mass murderer, yet again, the  other recent  one being Sutcliffe, to social commentators from all walks of life and on various platforms on the most high profile disappeared child in recent history case, people who have had valid questions and comments and by no stretch of the imagnation being only  "excoriating"





Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 27, 2015, 07:32:13 PM
I presume "those considered worthy" is a reference to the Drs McCann.

If there are individuals who are incapable of lucidly working out that their unceasingly excoriating campaigns for "justice" for one child may eventually have a damaging effect on other children in the same family ... what sort of "arbitrary scale"  would you think appropriate to put them on?

The child I mentioned in my initial post was so upset at the association she discovered on-line that she wanted to change her name.

Is any thought given to the stealing of the innocence of Madeleine's siblings who are going to have to be inured by gradual exposure to the evil which has been written about the parents who have nurtured them ... as well as the comments which have been directed at them.

madeleine McCann's parents have been in the news for years by their own efforts. Sometimes the stories have been favourable sometimes not. What is a fact is that they courted publicity from the beginning.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 27, 2015, 07:34:48 PM
I presume "those considered worthy" is a reference to the Drs McCann.

If there are individuals who are incapable of lucidly working out that their unceasingly excoriating campaigns for "justice" for one child may eventually have a damaging effect on other children in the same family ... what sort of "arbitrary scale"  would you think appropriate to put them on?

The child I mentioned in my initial post was so upset at the association she discovered on-line that she wanted to change her name.

Is any thought given to the stealing of the innocence of Madeleine's siblings who are going to have to be inured by gradual exposure to the evil which has been written about the parents who have nurtured them ... as well as the comments which have been directed at them.

I take it that means you think it is not global principle that should apply.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 27, 2015, 07:56:10 PM
Now we have Brietta's caustic and accusatory generic link between a mass murderer, yet again, the  other recent  one being Sutcliffe, to social commentators from all walks of life and on various platforms on the most high profile disappeared child in recent history case, people who have had valid questions and comments and by no stretch of the imagnation being only  "excoriating"

lol and a questioning fest? My reasons are well known for questioning.

There is a very sad and difficult future facing the twins with regards to them being told stories by trolls or .......... I feel deeply sorry for them. I think Kate n Gerry have tried to sheild them to some extent, but then they did pay to have their face in the papers!  that attracts idiots, evil doers, and stalkers.  Kate and Gerry know this, they have experienced it. They should have just sat in the background quietly, waiting for the police to deal with things. But for reasons best known to themselves they DON'T!

Who knows how the twins will be affected by there parents behaviour.  Leaving them alone night after night, and Maddie being missing. They may forgve them or hate them, but that is their descision- not to be influenced by media commentators.

The story they need to know is simple- mum dad made a bad call/mistake,  Maddie is missing we don't know what happened to her.

 all the other rubbish about abductors/Amaral and suing and travelling and pretending to be VIPs should be knocked on the head!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on July 27, 2015, 08:15:31 PM
Well MTI, just another example of farming out the guilt, it's unacceptable and cheap. Valid criticism of gratuitous nasty posting or "threats" is OK, trying desperately to tie in people who "just don't buy it"  to mass murderers or poaedophiles or those in mental institutions is below the belt, usually backfires badly anyway, as its disingenuous at best

The other accusation about responsibility for damaging their children is also pathetic. They need to take responsibility for anythng they started and continued with
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 10:15:46 PM
I take it that means you think it is not global principle that should apply.

Name me a comparable situation.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 27, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
Name me a comparable situation.

That is neither relevant to the question I asked nor to the question of principle.
So fundamentally your argument is that of "I shall be the arbiter of......"
Just so's we know where we are at.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 10:30:26 PM
lol and a questioning fest? My reasons are well known for questioning.

There is a very sad and difficult future facing the twins with regards to them being told stories by trolls or .......... I feel deeply sorry for them. I think Kate n Gerry have tried to sheild them to some extent, but then they did pay to have their face in the papers!  that attracts idiots, evil doers, and stalkers.  Kate and Gerry know this, they have experienced it. They should have just sat in the background quietly, waiting for the police to deal with things. But for reasons best known to themselves they DON'T!

Who knows how the twins will be affected by there parents behaviour.  Leaving them alone night after night, and Maddie being missing. They may forgve them or hate them, but that is their descision- not to be influenced by media commentators.

The story they need to know is simple- mum dad made a bad call/mistake,  Maddie is missing we don't know what happened to her.

 all the other rubbish about abductors/Amaral and suing and travelling and pretending to be VIPs should be knocked on the head!

This may come as a bit of a shock to you ... I have absolutely no conception what your reasons are for "questioning" although if it has taken you eight years of questions without working out an answer you may have a problem ... and this will come as less of a shock ... I don't give a tinker's curse.

I cannot think of a single reason why anyone would wish to defend or condone those who have trolled or abused Madeleine McCann's family for over eight years ... you seem to have your reasoning on that pretty well rehearsed.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 10:37:36 PM
madeleine McCann's parents have been in the news for years by their own efforts. Sometimes the stories have been favourable sometimes not. What is a fact is that they courted publicity from the beginning.

What is your visceral objection to Madeleine McCann's parents keeping her name in the public eye to the extent that officials have been forced to re-open her case ... and as an offshoot do you think the police would be working in Greece on Ben Needham's case if the Drs McCann had not forced action for Madeleine?

One of the troll mantras is " why McCann ... what about all the thousands of other missing children!!" ... in your own way you appear to give succour to that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on July 27, 2015, 10:40:25 PM
What is your visceral objection to Madeleine McCann's parents keeping her name in the public eye to the extent that officials have been forced to re-open her case ... and as an offshoot do you think the police would be working in Greece on Ben Needham's case if the Drs McCann had not forced action for Madeleine?

One of the troll mantras is " why McCann ... what about all the thousands of other missing children!!" ... in your own way you appear to give succour to that.

It was, until the investigation into Ben's disappearance was re-opened.

I dare say they've got a new mantra now ....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 27, 2015, 10:45:44 PM
It was, until the investigation into Ben's disappearance was re-opened.

I dare say they've got a new mantra now ....

LOL Ferryman ... they have so many they are really spoilt for choice.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2015, 06:07:57 AM
What is your visceral objection to Madeleine McCann's parents keeping her name in the public eye to the extent that officials have been forced to re-open her case ... and as an offshoot do you think the police would be working in Greece on Ben Needham's case if the Drs McCann had not forced action for Madeleine?

One of the troll mantras is " why McCann ... what about all the thousands of other missing children!!" ... in your own way you appear to give succour to that.

This thread is about trolls. We have established that no-one on here is a troll, unless you wish to accuse? The story you posted wasn't about trolls, but you used it to attack those who ask questions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Most people associated with the disappearance or present at the time are no longer in the news. Only the McCanns are to blame for the fact that if their children google their sister's name umpteen newspaper stories will come up, some of which have headlines like 'did they kill Maddie'. Whatever is on the internet about the case is there because the McCanns were less than open with the police, less than open with interviewers and less than open with the Fund. They have a responsibility for whatever their children find on the internet; most of it arose because of what they did or said, whatever their motives. They chose to publicise the abduction story for which there's not a shred of proof.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: carlymichelle on July 28, 2015, 06:16:26 AM
This thread is about trolls. We have established that no-one on here is a troll, unless you wish to accuse? The story you posted wasn't about trolls, but you used it to attack those who ask questions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Most people associated with the disappearance or present at the time are no longer in the news. Only the McCanns are to blame for the fact that if their children google their sister's name umpteen newspaper stories will come up, some of which have headlines like 'did they kill Maddie'. Whatever is on the internet about the case is there because the McCanns were less than open with the police, less than open with interviewers and less than open with the Fund. They have a responsibility for whatever their children find on the internet; most of it arose because of what they did or said, whatever their motives. They chose to publicise the abduction story for which there's not a shred of proof.

 8@??)( exactly and as i said they need to put a internet filter on the computers 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 28, 2015, 10:55:26 AM
The story you posted wasn't about trolls by the way.

It was about the unintended effect on an eleven year old child finding graphic content on the internet with a direct link to her family and name.

If you or anyone justifying the trolling of the McCann family stating the use of "internet filters" will protect the children, I fear you may be just a tad out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 28, 2015, 11:09:19 AM
Well moi dear thass as maybe but moi old grannies headstone was the foinest bit o shaaaarpnin stone in 'ertfordshire theyd come for moils fer sharpen their sickles an' faggin' 'ooks.

Having lived off off Byres Road for a few years I can do Weegie if that suits you better.
See you an' yer wally dugs hen.
Ah well back on yer 'eads.

Nicely put. 8@??)(
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 28, 2015, 02:40:33 PM
It was about the unintended effect on an eleven year old child finding graphic content on the internet with a direct link to her family and name.

If you or anyone justifying the trolling of the McCann family stating the use of "internet filters" will protect the children, I fear you may be just a tad out of touch with reality.

On a website apparently. No trolls involved. evil or otherwise. The thread is about trolls and it's not something I do or would 'justify', thank you.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Angelo222 on July 28, 2015, 03:05:27 PM
The MSM are the worst offenders when it comes to labelling people internet trolls.  Seems everyone who questions the McCanns story are internet trolls these days, truth seeker Brenda being one of them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 28, 2015, 11:45:26 PM
This thread is about trolls. We have established that no-one on here is a troll, unless you wish to accuse? The story you posted wasn't about trolls, but you used it to attack those who ask questions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Most people associated with the disappearance or present at the time are no longer in the news. Only the McCanns are to blame for the fact that if their children google their sister's name umpteen newspaper stories will come up, some of which have headlines like 'did they kill Maddie'. Whatever is on the internet about the case is there because the McCanns were less than open with the police, less than open with interviewers and less than open with the Fund. They have a responsibility for whatever their children find on the internet; most of it arose because of what they did or said, whatever their motives. They chose to publicise the abduction story for which there's not a shred of proof.
Have we?

News to me.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2015, 06:48:08 AM
Have we?

News to me.

I believe we did so much earlier in the thread. If you disagree we can discuss.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 29, 2015, 05:19:55 PM
I believe we did so much earlier in the thread. If you disagree we can discuss.
Maybe you and  a few others on here decided that, but I certainly do not agree.

However I shall not be sharing troll names, atm
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2015, 06:03:57 PM
Maybe you and  a few others on here decided that, but I certainly do not agree.

However I shall not be sharing troll names, atm

Good, it's not productive and depending on your definition of trolling it could be untrue. At least we're now on topic instead of discussing newspaper stories which weren't about trolls.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 29, 2015, 09:16:30 PM
Good, it's not productive and depending on your definition of trolling it could be untrue. At least we're now on topic instead of discussing newspaper stories which weren't about trolls.

Although trolling behaviour is rife on both sides of the  McCann stories in some quarters, about an alledged abduction, it is only those who question without malice intent are now classified as Trolls- supporters have reinvented the criteria for troll posts.
Cute eh? lol
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2015, 10:01:52 PM
Although trolling behaviour is rife on both sides of the  McCann stories in some quarters, about an alledged abduction, it is only those who question without malice intent are now classified as Trolls- supporters have reinvented the criteria for troll posts.
Cute eh? lol

According to some supporters trolls are...........anyone who disagrees with them about the Madeleine McCann case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 29, 2015, 10:10:06 PM
According to some supporters trolls are...........anyone who disagrees with them about the Madeleine McCann case.
which supporters are they please?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 29, 2015, 11:24:08 PM
which supporters are they please?

The ones that label people trolls if they don't agree with them. The dossier compilers to name a few.  ?{)(**
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 30, 2015, 08:09:00 AM
The ones that label people trolls if they don't agree with them. The dossier compilers to name a few.  ?{)(**
Are you in the dossier then?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 08:19:02 AM
Are you in the dossier then?

I suggest you pay a visit to the infamous mccann supporter sites, and don't pretend you don't know what they are.

On those the labeling of people as trolls goes on in abundance.

However, those sites really reflect on some of the occupants who are what they criticize others of, on an ongoing basis.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 08:30:00 AM
I suggest you pay a visit to the infamous mccann supporter sites, and don't pretend you don't know what they are.

On those the labeling of people as trolls goes on in abundance.

However, those sites really reflect on some of the occupants who are what they criticize others of, on an ongoing basis.

It really doesn't mean anything any more. By accusing those who aren't trolls of being trolls the accusers are behaving as trolls, and round and round it goes.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 08:33:01 AM
It really doesn't mean anything any more. By accusing those who aren't trolls of being trolls the accusers are behaving as trolls, and round and round it goes.  @)(++(*

It is unfortunate the newspapers and Sky News didn't pick up on that.

That unfortunate woman, Brenda Leyland might still be alive.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 09:19:08 AM
It is unfortunate the newspapers and Sky News didn't pick up on that.

That unfortunate woman, Brenda Leyland might still be alive.
Yes she was a very unfortunate woman in more ways than one

And sadly having turned the heat up, she couldn't take it.



She thought that she could say whatever awful things she wanted, cos she was anonymous, and no-one would know it was her.  Must have been devastating to be revealed.


But sad that she couldn't take the repercussions.  Very sad.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 09:24:22 AM
Yes she was a very unfortunate woman in more ways than one

And sadly having turned the heat up, she couldn't take it.



She thought that she could say whatever awful things she wanted, cos she was anonymous, and no-one would know it was her.  Must have been devastating to be revealed.


But sad that she couldn't take the repercussions.  Very sad.

and she had committed no crime sadie.

Didn't stop sky and brunt hounding her, did it.

Then a couple of days later after brunt ...................
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on July 30, 2015, 09:49:41 AM
and she had committed no crime sadie.

Didn't stop sky and brunt hounding her, did it.

Then a couple of days later after brunt ...................

IIRC according to the inquest/the police - no-one has committed a crime.   No-one has been prosecuted and the ardent hope by some sceptics that her family would pursue legal action has not materialised.

IMO it was apparent by their non-attendance at the inquest, the fact that they have made no comments publicly and showed no sign of wishing to sue anyone - that her family just want the whole sad episode to be laid to rest.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 30, 2015, 09:57:26 AM
IIRC according to the inquest/the police - no-one has committed a crime.   No-one has been prosecuted and the ardent hope by some sceptics that her family would pursue legal action has not materialised.

IMO it was apparent by their non-attendance at the inquest, the fact that they have made no comments publicly and showed no sign of wishing to sue anyone - that her family just want the whole sad episode to be laid to rest.

But it's NOT what Brenda wanted.  The family were scared or warned off maybe? The MSM were disgraceful towards Brenda- it wasn't an even playing field now was it?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 09:59:53 AM
Yes she was a very unfortunate woman in more ways than one

And sadly having turned the heat up, she couldn't take it.



She thought that she could say whatever awful things she wanted, cos she was anonymous, and no-one would know it was her.  Must have been devastating to be revealed.


But sad that she couldn't take the repercussions.  Very sad.

Sad also that those who exposed her and reported her to the police for a crime she didn't commit are still able to post anonymously and compile dossiers. Why do some people think they can not only define what crime has been committed but also who is guilty? They should be ashamed.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:02:05 AM
Sad also that those who exposed her and reported her to the police for a crime she didn't commit are still able to post anonymously and compile dossiers. Why do some people think they can not only define what crime has been committed but also who is guilty? They should be ashamed.

Quite right.

The dossier compilers are also bona fide cowards.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 30, 2015, 10:08:47 AM
Sad also that those who exposed her and reported her to the police for a crime she didn't commit are still able to post anonymously and compile dossiers. Why do some people think they can not only define what crime has been committed but also who is guilty? They should be ashamed.

But G it was a great sign of what SY thought about those idiots. The trolls send the dossier to SY to get Brenda sent down- SY must have thought WTF- ignored it and said nothing to do with us! investigating a child abduction/murder? you also want us to investigate/ arrest a woman who doesn't like Kate very much. seriously? lol
 Slap in face- when police dissmissed it !!   So not wanting to give up - they contacted the MSM-  Kate n Gerry's friends.  The trolls who complain about trolls- hilarious.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 10:10:37 AM
Quite right.

The dossier compilers are also bona fide cowards.

Had their plan succeeded they might have managed to intimidate people into stopping commenting. Instead it backfired big time and they were exposed as the nasty, self righteous, vicious bullies they are. All bullies are cowards.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2015, 10:11:19 AM
But it's NOT what Brenda wanted.  The family were scared or warned off maybe? The MSM were disgraceful towards Brenda- it wasn't an even playing field now was it?

This is bordering on Libel.  Please don't go there.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lace on July 30, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
I suggest you pay a visit to the infamous mccann supporter sites, and don't pretend you don't know what they are.

On those the labeling of people as trolls goes on in abundance.

However, those sites really reflect on some of the occupants who are what they criticize others of, on an ongoing basis.

You are such a hypocrite Stephen,   you are a member of a forum which houses a troll,  someone who calls anyone who believes the McCann's a nonce,   abuses and attacks any pro McCann member who wants to post there and tries to find out their identity.

You chat and get along fine and dandy with this person,  slapping each other on the back and putting smilies at the end of posts to this poster.

Please stop preaching on here.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 10:19:45 AM
But G it was a great sign of what SY thought about those idiots. The trolls send the dossier to SY to get Brenda sent down- SY must have thought WTF- ignored it and said nothing to do with us! investigating a child abduction/murder? you also want us to investigate/ arrest a woman who doesn't like Kate very much. seriously? lol
 Slap in face- when police dissmissed it !!   So not wanting to give up - they contacted the MSM-  Kate n Gerry's friends.  The trolls who complain about trolls- hilarious.

Sir Bernard let slip who handed the file over. Whether they compiled it we don't know, but they colluded;

But in terms of that file, what happened if you recall was that the family handed to our team that are investigating the, or reviewing the murder of...of sorry, reviewing the missing girl. errr the McCann daughter. The file was handed to that team and we were liasing with Leicestershire police which is where the McCann
family live
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/p02789bx
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 30, 2015, 10:20:20 AM
This is bordering on Libel.  Please don't go there.

Fairy nuff... I was just suggesting.  I said 'Maybe'.

Also, as we all know, there are groups of really unpleasant posters who would have attached themselves to what would have been a private family matter.

It could also have been they are not ones to chase blood money like some people. Many reasons are viable. But Brenda did say if anything happened to her....

So for the record to those who are not so forgiving BRENDA WAS NOT A TROLL.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:21:39 AM
You are such a hypocrite Stephen,   you are a member of a forum which houses a troll,  someone who calls anyone who believes the McCann's a nonce,   abuses and attacks any pro McCann member who wants to post there and tries to find out their identity.

You chat and get along fine and dandy with this person,  slapping each other on the back and putting smilies at the end of posts to this poster.

Please stop preaching on here.

Has this poster been banned on that moderated forum. Many of his posts are deleted

Do you think I agree with all his posts ?

I do not know who this person is, and I have criticized him as have others.

Has this person tried to find I.D.'s or is that an allegation which you can't prove.

I have never done that.

I wonder on the other hand if mccann trolls have tried to find out who I am ? &%+((£


and the forums you post on, what about the trolls there ?

Do they include the dossier compilers ? 8)-)))

Remember of course, Brenda Leyland committed NO CRIMES.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 10:28:21 AM
Sad also that those who exposed her and reported her to the police for a crime she didn't commit are still able to post anonymously and compile dossiers. Why do some people think they can not only define what crime has been committed but also who is guilty? They should be ashamed.
I see things differently to you.

Brenda bullied anonymously.  She proved herself to be weak by doing that and taking her own life, when she realised that the world would know who said all the awful things that she did.

She could smack out the vilifications, but she couldn't take it that the world would know that she was responsible.


Very sad that she was vulnerable.  But the fact fremains that what she did was morally wrong and had she not taken her life, who knows if the Police might have prosecuted her.


After someone dies, easiest and cheapest  for the police to not persue it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lace on July 30, 2015, 10:30:00 AM
Has this poster been banned on that moderated forum. Many of his posts are deleted

Do you think I agree with all his posts ?

I do not know who this person is, and I have criticized him as have others.

Has this person tried to find I.D.'s or is that an allegation which you can't prove.

I have never done that.

I wonder on the other hand if mccann trolls have tried to find out who I am ? &%+((£


and the forums you post on, what about the trolls there ?

Do they include the dossier compilers ? 8)-)))

Remember of course, Brenda Leyland committed NO CRIMES.

You know very well who this poster is and no this poster hasn't been banned,  but should be.    This poster posts disgusting comments but disguises what it posts by separating the letters up or swapping them around.

You have never said that you disagree with what this poster has posted on your forum  EVER.

As to other forums,  how can you preach when it is going on under your nose?

Why bring Brenda Leyland into your argument?    she was one of the people named in the dossier for her nasty comments that is all.    Let this woman RIP.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 30, 2015, 10:37:23 AM
I see things differently to you.

Brenda bullied anonymously.  She proved herself to be weak by doing that and taking her own life, when she realised that the world would know who said all the awful things that she did.

She could smack out the vilifications, but she couldn't take it that the world would know that she was responsible.


Very sad that she was vulnerable.  But the fact fremains that what she did was morally wrong and had she not taken her life, who knows if the Police might have prosecuted her.


After someone dies, easiest and cheapest  for the police to not persue it.

So that would go for Maddie as well then yes? no?....

"But the fact fremains that what she did was morally wrong "  same as the parents don't you agree?




Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:37:29 AM
You know very well who this poster is and no this poster hasn't been banned,  but should be.    This poster posts disgusting comments but disguises what it posts by separating the letters up or swapping them around.

You have never said that you disagree with what this poster has posted on your forum  EVER.

As to other forums,  how can you preach when it is going on under your nose?

Why bring Brenda Leyland into your argument?    she was one of the people named in the dossier for her nasty comments that is all.    Let this woman RIP.

Wrong.

CAan you prove I have supported every post he has made ?

You really mustn't lie Lace.

As to the '.........', it is known which forums they post on. 8)-)))
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2015, 10:38:02 AM
Has this poster been banned on that moderated forum. Many of his posts are deleted

Do you think I agree with all his posts ?

I do not know who this person is, and I have criticized him as have others.

Has this person tried to find I.D.'s or is that an allegation which you can't prove.

I have never done that.

I wonder on the other hand if mccann trolls have tried to find out who I am ? &%+((£


and the forums you post on, what about the trolls there ?

Do they include the dossier compilers ? 8)-)))

Remember of course, Brenda Leyland committed NO CRIMES.

The forum has discussed Brenda Leyland's demise over seventy pages on this the thread entitled  Topic: Brenda Leyland. Coroner confirms cause of death as suicide.    http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6184.msg226672#msg226672

This thread is apparently to discuss what constitutes internet trolling ... a far reaching subject in which a sad, lonely and very disturbed woman with suicidal tendencies has played a very small walk on part.

It is instructive that we have heard nothing from Ms Leyland's immediate family regarding her death.  Quite obviously the Coroner's verdict has been sufficient for them ... perhaps those who have turned her into a cause célčbre might want to ponder on that for a moment.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:39:53 AM
The forum has discussed Brenda Leyland's demise over seventy pages on this the thread entitled  Topic: Brenda Leyland. Coroner confirms cause of death as suicide.    http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6184.msg226672#msg226672

This thread is apparently to discuss what constitutes internet trolling ... a far reaching subject in which a sad, lonely and very disturbed woman with suicidal tendencies has played a very small walk on part.

It is instructive that we have heard nothing from Ms Leyland's immediate family regarding her death.  Quite obviously the Coroner's verdict has been sufficient for them ... perhaps those who have turned her into a cause célčbre might want to ponder on that for a moment.

Would she be dead apart from the involvement of the dossier compilers and sky ?

An honest answer would be appreciated.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 10:42:41 AM
You are such a hypocrite Stephen,   you are a member of a forum which houses a troll,  someone who calls anyone who believes the McCann's a nonce,   abuses and attacks any pro McCann member who wants to post there and tries to find out their identity.

You chat and get along fine and dandy with this person,  slapping each other on the back and putting smilies at the end of posts to this poster.

Please stop preaching on here.

Exactly

As my name and address have been ferreted out

And as I have visits every now and agian with people staring into my back garden.



If only they realised the clues they give out!  8(>((
 *&*%£

I notice things that others dont seem to.




The fact that I alone have been targetted shows that I am somewhat different to the other pr0s on here.   

It tends to confirm that I have upset some by identifying the perp. [at least showing dozens of pointers] to SY and certain posters know it now.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 10:48:43 AM
So that would go for Maddie as well then yes? no?....

"But the fact fremains that what she did was morally wrong "  same as the parents don't you agree?

She died at her own hand.

Madeleine is almost certainly still alive.


Do you not want a little girl stolen to be found?

What's wrong with you?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:49:06 AM
Exactly

As my name and address have been ferreted out

And as I have visits every now and agian with people staring into my back garden.



If only they realised the clues they give out!  8(>((
 *&*%£

I notice things that others dont seem to.




The fact that I alone have been targetted shows that I am somewhat different to the other pr0s on here.   

It tends to confirm that I have upset some by identifying the perp. [at least showing dozens of pointers] to SY and certain posters know it now.

Can you prove any of that ?

P.S. I have absolutely no interest in your real name or where you live.

Now how about Brenda Leyland. how were her details obtained ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on July 30, 2015, 10:50:53 AM
The forum has discussed Brenda Leyland's demise over seventy pages on this the thread entitled  Topic: Brenda Leyland. Coroner confirms cause of death as suicide.    http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6184.msg226672#msg226672

This thread is apparently to discuss what constitutes internet trolling ... a far reaching subject in which a sad, lonely and very disturbed woman with suicidal tendencies has played a very small walk on part.

It is instructive that we have heard nothing from Ms Leyland's immediate family regarding her death.  Quite obviously the Coroner's verdict has been sufficient for them ... perhaps those who have turned her into a cause célčbre might want to ponder on that for a moment.

It seems to me that the desire to turn BL into some kind of sainted victim  - to be used as a stick to beat the McCanns with ad nauseum  - far outweighs any respect due to her family.    Very sad imo.   



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2015, 10:52:36 AM
Would she be dead apart from the involvement of the dossier compilers and sky ?

An honest answer would be appreciated.

By bringing a dead woman into the discussion on a thread which is dedicated to internet trolling ... you appear to be reinforcing the connection.
That whenever her name is mentioned it includes the soubriquet TROLL cannot be comforting to the family she took the decision to leave behind ... perhaps as Lace has suggested ...it is time to allow this woman to Requiescat in pace.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 10:53:58 AM
Can you prove any of that ?

P.S. I have absolutely no interest in your real name or where you live.

Now how about Brenda Leyland. how were her details obtained ?

Not everyone has the same motivations for finding out who I am

And it would be nice if you were one who did not.



But the clues they have given out

 *&*%£



The Police are aware.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:54:46 AM
By bringing a dead woman into the discussion on a thread which is dedicated to internet trolling ... you appear to be reinforcing the connection.
That whenever her name is mentioned it includes the soubriquet TROLL cannot be comforting to the family she took the decision to leave behind ... perhaps as Lace has suggested ...it is time to allow this woman to Requiescat in pace.

I know who the trolls are. 8(0(*

Brenda Leyland committed no crimes.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 10:56:02 AM
Not everyone has the same motivations for finding out who I am

And it would be nice if you were one who did not.



But the clues they have given out

 *&*%£



The Police are aware.

How do we know that ?

Have you broadcast your name and address ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 30, 2015, 10:56:31 AM
By bringing a dead woman into the discussion on a thread which is dedicated to internet trolling ... you appear to be reinforcing the connection.
That whenever her name is mentioned it includes the soubriquet TROLL cannot be comforting to the family she took the decision to leave behind ... perhaps as Lace has suggested ...it is time to allow this woman to Requiescat in pace.

Brenda was joyfully 'outed as a nasty troll'  in the MSN  BY people like you who support the McCANNS.  Not happy about that? well if the show fits...
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 10:57:47 AM
How do we know that ?

Have you broadcast your name and address ?

No, it has been ferreted out.


Anyway, stephen, I am off now.


Loads to do

Take care
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 11:00:24 AM
Brenda was joyfully 'outed as a nasty troll'  in the MSN  BY people like you who support the McCANNS.  Not happy about that? well if the show fits...
I dont think Brietta did ... and neither did I.


But not knowing her vulnerability, I would have happily reported her based on what I have heard that she kept saying.

I hate bullies.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 30, 2015, 11:02:17 AM
No, it has been ferreted out.


Anyway, stephen, I am off now.


Loads to do

Take care

Likewise Sadie.

Time for the Ashes.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lace on July 30, 2015, 11:11:49 AM
Wrong.

CAan you prove I have supported every post he has made ?

You really mustn't lie Lace.

As to the '.........', it is known which forums they post on. 8)-)))

You never posted that you disagreed with this poster,  sometimes you joined in with this poster,  I am not lying.

Stephen you know what I am talking about don't try and say otherwise.

Stop bringing the dossier into every discussion about trolls,  this dossier as you know was compiled because the person/s were worried about the escalating  threats made to the McCann's,  if you listened to the video,  the person said that they were worried in case someone carried out one of the threats,  you don't know who is reading twitter Stephen,  someone could have gotten it into his/her head that something needed to be done against the McCann's and have acted on one of the threats.

No doubt if threats like these were said about say Amaral for instance,  then someone would do something about it.

As for Brenda Leyland she was mentally unbalanced she had attempted suicide before,   it is sad that she found companionship with a group of people who spent their time, threatening and abusing the McCann family,  she felt needed no doubt,  egged on by these people and awarded with their praise.

Who knows if she would have committed suicide if the dossier hadn't been compiled.   Could be that something could have gone wrong on one of the forums or twitter one of the so called friends could have argued with her [actually did some turn against her?]    and that could have been enough to send her into despair.   Also she had family problems,  neighbour problems,   we can only speculate.

What I find disgusting though is that this woman is being used to fight battles,  when she should be left to RIP her family should be respected too.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 11:15:40 AM
I see things differently to you.

Brenda bullied anonymously.  She proved herself to be weak by doing that and taking her own life, when she realised that the world would know who said all the awful things that she did.

She could smack out the vilifications, but she couldn't take it that the world would know that she was responsible.


Very sad that she was vulnerable.  But the fact fremains that what she did was morally wrong and had she not taken her life, who knows if the Police might have prosecuted her.


After someone dies, easiest and cheapest  for the police to not persue it.

A bully uses physical strength or some sort of influence to intimidate weaker people or to force them to do something. Brenda Leyland relied on neither physical strength nor influence, so not a bully.

She did nothing criminal, so suggesting that the police may have prosecuted her had she lived is completely incorrect. I hope you're not trying to start a myth Sadie.

Absolutely anyone can post on the internet anonymously. Some will be vulnerable, but they probably don't think they are. It's best to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in my opinion just in case. That's why I prefer not to question people's intelligence or their moral fibre. I don't know them or their circumstances so I will challenge what they say, but won't attack them as people.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2015, 02:46:17 PM
Brenda was joyfully 'outed as a nasty troll'  in the MSN  BY people like you who support the McCANNS.  Not happy about that? well if the show fits...

It has never been my practice to speak ill of the dead (with obvious exclusions such as Mengistu Haile Mariam) so you will not pull me into any such discussion ... that may be the problem with trolls, they have no standards and no manners, they don't really mind who they malign ... the more vulnerable the better they like it.

They will always be with us.
What is particularly despicable is when they organise themselves into a pack for no other reason than to lambaste chosen victims in any which way they can.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 30, 2015, 04:08:41 PM
It has never been my practice to speak ill of the dead (with obvious exclusions such as Mengistu Haile Mariam) so you will not pull me into any such discussion ... that may be the problem with trolls, they have no standards and no manners, they don't really mind who they malign ... the more vulnerable the better they like it.

They will always be with us.
What is particularly despicable is when they organise themselves into a pack for no other reason than to lambaste chosen victims in any which way they can.

Please define your meaning of the word 'troll'. Unless you do that it's not clear who you're referring to.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 30, 2015, 04:16:54 PM
A bully uses physical strength or some sort of influence to intimidate weaker people or to force them to do something. Brenda Leyland relied on neither physical strength nor influence, so not a bully.

She did nothing criminal, so suggesting that the police may have prosecuted her had she lived is completely incorrect. I hope you're not trying to start a myth Sadie.

Absolutely anyone can post on the internet anonymously. Some will be vulnerable, but they probably don't think they are. It's best to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in my opinion just in case. That's why I prefer not to question people's intelligence or their moral fibre. I don't know them or their circumstances so I will challenge what they say, but won't attack them as people.
Do you not believe it is possible to bully and intimidate someone via social media? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2015, 04:19:33 PM
We all know that this is happening, and has been for eight years now.  Whether or not it is a punishable offence is entirely beside the point.  It is a disgusting way in which to carry on.

Personally, I believe that Brenda Leyland was a Troll, but there is always more to this behaviour than first appears.  They all appear to have mental health issues and very sad and lonely lives.  And I feel sorry about that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 30, 2015, 04:27:39 PM
We all know that this is happening, and has been for eight years now.  Whether or not it is a punishable offence is entirely beside the point.  It is a disgusting way in which to carry on.

Personally, I believe that Brenda Leyland was a Troll, but there is always more to this behaviour than first appears.  They all appear to have mental health issues and very sad and lonely lives.  And I feel sorry about that.
There is no doubt whatsoever that Brenda engaged in bullying behaviour, not least towards a woman she believed to be an OC nanny.  Her behaviour was despicable in this regard, and generally unpleasant in many other respects.  She was a foolish woman who paid the ultimate price for the shame she brought upon herself and her family.  Sad but true.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 05:08:33 PM
A bully uses physical strength or some sort of influence to intimidate weaker people or to force them to do something. Brenda Leyland relied on neither physical strength nor influence, so not a bully.

She did nothing criminal, so suggesting that the police may have prosecuted her had she lived is completely incorrect. I hope you're not trying to start a myth Sadie.  

Absolutely anyone can post on the internet anonymously. Some will be vulnerable, but they probably don't think they are. It's best to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in my opinion just in case. That's why I prefer not to question people's intelligence or their moral fibre. I don't know them or their circumstances so I will challenge what they say, but won't attack them as people.

so suggesting that the police may have prosecuted her had she lived is completely incorrect. I hope you're not trying to start a myth Sadie.  


Now I dont remember saying that Gunit, but I suppose, no you mention it, that it is possible that the police might have prosecuted her..



You are not trying to start a myth that I did say it, are you Gunit?

Cos if you are, the marriage is off  @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 30, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
There is no doubt whatsoever that Brenda engaged in bullying behaviour, not least towards a woman she believed to be an OC nanny.  Her behaviour was despicable in this regard, and generally unpleasant in many other respects.  She was a foolish woman who paid the ultimate price for the shame she brought upon herself and her family.  Sad but true.

I am just distressed by the fact that she was distressed.  I would have supported her had I known, even though I totally disagreed with her behaviour.  There are always things you can say or do when someone needs help.
I have never walked away from anyone, even when I was tarred with the same brush by association.  And believe me, I do know what I am talking about.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 30, 2015, 05:39:24 PM
I am just distressed by the fact that she was distressed.  I would have supported her had I known, even though I totally disagreed with her behaviour.  There are always things you can say or do when someone needs help.
I have never walked away from anyone, even when I was tarred with the same brush by association.  And believe me, I do know what I am talking about.

I am the same as you Eleanor.

We are alike in several ways.


I try and help people when they are in distress or even when they are in trouble if I think the authorities have got it wrong.


I am actually inclined to think that her decision to take her life was at least partially fuelled by friends and maybe family expressing their disgust at her trolling the family of a little missing girl ... and she locked herself away from the critisms pouring in.


But I dont know and neither does anyone unless closely involved.


Very very sad that she took her own life, but also very sad what she was saying to and about Kate and Gerry
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 30, 2015, 07:54:29 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Spivey can be prosecuted for doing what he did to the Rigby family, but the police saw nothing amiss with any of the behaviour of the McCann "sceptics" who collectively have invented similar offeinsive and outrageous claims about the family of a missing child?  Is Spivey a troll?  If not, what is he?  I believe he has also had plenty to say about the McCanns - none of it good!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180080/Conspiracy-theorist-claimed-Lee-Rigby-s-murder-hoax-terrified-family-publishing-addresses-online.html#ixzz3hOssNVg0
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 30, 2015, 09:42:06 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Spivey can be prosecuted for doing what he did to the Rigby family, but the police saw nothing amiss with any of the behaviour of the McCann "sceptics" who collectively have invented similar offeinsive and outrageous claims about the family of a missing child?  Is Spivey a troll?  If not, what is he?  I believe he has also had plenty to say about the McCanns - none of it good!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180080/Conspiracy-theorist-claimed-Lee-Rigby-s-murder-hoax-terrified-family-publishing-addresses-online.html#ixzz3hOssNVg0

" When he was later asked how he thought his posts would make the Rigby family feel, he said: 'They f****** deserve it. They don't have to read it. I have freedom of speech.'  " Quote: Chris Spivey

He does seems to meet the criteria of most internet trolls who value their freedom of speech but forget that with it comes responsibility.

Publishing home addresses on the internet is nothing short of despicable.


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 30, 2015, 11:31:25 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Spivey can be prosecuted for doing what he did to the Rigby family, but the police saw nothing amiss with any of the behaviour of the McCann "sceptics" who collectively have invented similar offeinsive and outrageous claims about the family of a missing child?  Is Spivey a troll?  If not, what is he?  I believe he has also had plenty to say about the McCanns - none of it good!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180080/Conspiracy-theorist-claimed-Lee-Rigby-s-murder-hoax-terrified-family-publishing-addresses-online.html#ixzz3hOssNVg0

Yes, he's a troll. But that word isn't strong enough for him (and a few others of his ilk).

(Good job I'm not on his jury %£&)**#)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on July 30, 2015, 11:56:22 PM
It has never been my practice to speak ill of the dead (with obvious exclusions such as Mengistu Haile Mariam) so you will not pull me into any such discussion ... that may be the problem with trolls, they have no standards and no manners, they don't really mind who they malign ... the more vulnerable the better they like it.

They will always be with us.
What is particularly despicable is when they organise themselves into a pack for no other reason than to lambaste chosen victims in any which way they can.

Not used it for a while but........

*Irony Klaxon*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 12:00:37 AM
Yes, he's a troll. But that word isn't strong enough for him (and a few others of his ilk).

(Good job I'm not on his jury %£&)**#)

It is certainly going to be an interesting trial and an interesting verdict.

Very little that he has said differs from what has been and continues to be alleged about the Drs McCann and Madeleine ... who can forget the clone allegation.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 12:17:39 AM
It is certainly going to be an interesting trial and an interesting verdict.

Very little that he has said differs from what has been and continues to be alleged about the Drs McCann and Madeleine ... who can forget the clone allegation.

You may feel that, and so may others, but there's clearly a difference between some running a website and random idiotic comments on social media. Occasionally action is taken against that kind of social media (e.g. the prosecution over the comments about the murdered teacher), but it's rare. Spivey runs a website, and is I think in the same legal boat as any publisher.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 12:45:12 AM
You may feel that, and so may others, but there's clearly a difference between some running a website and random idiotic comments on social media. Occasionally action is taken against that kind of social media (e.g. the prosecution over the comments about the murdered teacher), but it's rare. Spivey runs a website, and is I think in the same legal boat as any publisher.

Hmmm ... good point.  Although in many cases the the comments and opinions are anything but random with the same people making the same comments (we all know what they are) on social media outlets where it could be considered they are acting as individuals.

That the same people are hosted and do likewise on many websites populated by like minded people might put that into the category you mention.

However it will be interesting to gauge exactly how the law addresses what is becoming a running sore in our society and what legal sanction, if any, may be in existence to cover it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 01:13:48 AM
Hmmm ... good point.  Although in many cases the the comments and opinions are anything but random with the same people making the same comments (we all know what they are) on social media outlets where it could be considered they are acting as individuals.

That the same people are hosted and do likewise on many websites populated by like minded people might put that into the category you mention.

However it will be interesting to gauge exactly how the law addresses what is becoming a running sore in our society and what legal sanction, if any, may be in existence to cover it.

It's already in existence, and was used to prosecute the man who made the tweets about the murdered teacher. The maximum sentence allowable was increased in the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 (to two years). That's been in effect since April.

But the case involving the tweets about the teacher was a case in which they'd be reasonably confident of obtaining a conviction. They'd be unlikely to proceed in cases which weren't so easily prosecutable.

There were other factors in the case involving the tweets about the teacher.

From the Guardian:

But the chairwoman of the bench, Georgina Scannell, said the court had no choice but to send the defendant to jail.

"The offensive messages outraged the public," she said. "You had complete disregard for the tragic death of Ann Maguire. Besides this, countless other vile messages were made by you. The bench finds these were racially and religiously aggravated. The offences are so serious that only a period of immediate custody can be justified."


So it looks like he wasn't just prosecuted for the tweets about the teacher, but for the racial and religious content of his other communications also.

It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction).

It's maybe not as easy as you think, Brietta.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 08:13:44 AM
I reckon the only reason Spivey has been prosecuted is because Lee Rigby's parents went to the police about him themselves.  There are certainly at least a dozen individuals who could find themselves in the same position if the McCanns themselves reported their activites, IMO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 08:48:48 AM
It's already in existence, and was used to prosecute the man who made the tweets about the murdered teacher. The maximum sentence allowable was increased in the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 (to two years). That's been in effect since April.

But the case involving the tweets about the teacher was a case in which they'd be reasonably confident of obtaining a conviction. They'd be unlikely to proceed in cases which weren't so easily prosecutable.

There were other factors in the case involving the tweets about the teacher.

From the Guardian:

But the chairwoman of the bench, Georgina Scannell, said the court had no choice but to send the defendant to jail.

"The offensive messages outraged the public," she said. "You had complete disregard for the tragic death of Ann Maguire. Besides this, countless other vile messages were made by you. The bench finds these were racially and religiously aggravated. The offences are so serious that only a period of immediate custody can be justified."


So it looks like he wasn't just prosecuted for the tweets about the teacher, but for the racial and religious content of his other communications also.

It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction).

It's maybe not as easy as you think, Brietta.

I don't think I have made myself clear enough, Lyall, I do not think it is at all easy to bring a successful prosecution in matters of this kind and I think the maximum sentence for such offences being two years is risible.
It illustrates that the law is not keeping pace with the effects of internet trolling.

When you say ... "It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction)." ... think about the very active internet campaigns which have gone on undeterred for over eight years which are not random and with many instances of prosecutable comments being made.

The same type of mentality which drove the troll in the case you mention is evident day and daily in relation to the Drs McCann and anyone connected to them ... and not only on twitter.

Even the charitable giving using Gofundme is being used as an opportunity and a platform to further disseminate poisonous bile against a couple whose much loved daughter is missing ... by people many of whom are proud to be self proclaimed trolls.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 09:02:13 AM
I don't think I have made myself clear enough, Lyall, I do not think it is at all easy to bring a successful prosecution in matters of this kind and I think the maximum sentence for such offences being two years is risible.
It illustrates that the law is not keeping pace with the effects of internet trolling.

When you say ... "It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction)." ... think about the very active internet campaigns which have gone on undeterred for over eight years which are not random and with many instances of prosecutable comments being made.

The same type of mentality which drove the troll in the case you mention is evident day and daily in relation to the Drs McCann and anyone connected to them ... and not only on twitter.

Even the charitable giving using Gofundme is being used as an opportunity and a platform to further disseminate poisonous bile against a couple whose much loved daughter is missing ... by people many of whom are proud to be self proclaimed trolls.

The 'attacks' have occurred from both sides.

I have yet to see you admit that.

As to the mccanns.

THEY are responsible for what they failed to do.

NO ONE ELSE.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 09:08:58 AM
I don't think I have made myself clear enough, Lyall, I do not think it is at all easy to bring a successful prosecution in matters of this kind and I think the maximum sentence for such offences being two years is risible.
It illustrates that the law is not keeping pace with the effects of internet trolling.

When you say ... "It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction)." ... think about the very active internet campaigns which have gone on undeterred for over eight years which are not random and with many instances of prosecutable comments being made.

The same type of mentality which drove the troll in the case you mention is evident day and daily in relation to the Drs McCann and anyone connected to them ... and not only on twitter.

Even the charitable giving using Gofundme is being used as an opportunity and a platform to further disseminate poisonous bile against a couple whose much loved daughter is missing ... by people many of whom are proud to be self proclaimed trolls.

'Trolling' in itself is not illegal. Not all trolls break the law although some of them do. Some people break the law who are not trolls. Using the word as an insult is counter-productive, particularly when people know they aren't trolls. The media labelled all those giving to Amaral's fund as trolls. That's ridiculous because some are, some aren't. Even if they are it doesn't mean they break the law. That's probably why people decided that they would take the label and be proud of it, because they know they're not doing anything illegal.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 09:13:31 AM
The 'attacks' have occurred from both sides.

I have yet to see you admit that.

As to the mccanns.

THEY are responsible for what they failed to do.

NO ONE ELSE.

Then discuss the trolling from both sides with examples ... should be really easy enough for you ... if what you are saying is true.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 09:17:54 AM
'Trolling' in itself is not illegal. Not all trolls break the law although some of them do. Some people break the law who are not trolls. Using the word as an insult is counter-productive, particularly when people know they aren't trolls. The media labelled all those giving to Amaral's fund as trolls. That's ridiculous because some are, some aren't. Even if they are it doesn't mean they break the law. That's probably why people decided that they would take the label and be proud of it, because they know they're not doing anything illegal.

Unfortunately many of the comments posted by these people are libellous ... and therefore illegal ... if you are happy to rise in their defence and if they are happy to be called trolls ... who are we to deny them their right to that soubriquet.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 09:29:59 AM
Then discuss the trolling from both sides with examples ... should be really easy enough for you ... if what you are saying is true.

I've given numerous examples as have others on several occasions.

Each time you won't admit it.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on July 31, 2015, 09:39:23 AM
I've given numerous examples as have others on several occasions.

Each time you won't admit it.
Well how about repeating them, please.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 09:50:15 AM
Well how about repeating them, please.

Last few times I did, they were deleted.

Just visit the forums (and twitter) Sadie, you know full well which ones I mean.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 10:35:11 AM
I've given numerous examples as have others on several occasions.

Each time you won't admit it.

The interesting thing about those few internet trolls who are brought before the courts is that ~ in common with the jailed troll mentioned by Lyall ~ http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/national/11198615.print/ ~ there seems to be a pattern that they are offenders known to the police or social services - drug abuse - mental health issues - interrupted education - attention seekers living insular lives.

For example, from the Guardian article - "Riley regarded Twitter as a chance to engage in "social banter" " ... and "he remained incredulous following a backlash from other Twitter users".

Which tells me the expectation this man had of social media was that - anything goes - and if he had discovered the joys of McCann bashing and stuck to that in his incredulity he wouldn't have been quoted as saying - " "Of all the sick things I've tweeted, starvation, genocide, rape and torture, it's the teacher from Leeds that outrages everyone the most." "   

For the simple reason that as far as McCann bashing goes it seems the trolls have been given free rein and any successful prosecutions involving the McCann name relate to Madeleine being mentioned in conjunction with other missing or murdered children ... it appears there is carte blanche to malign her parents with the foulest accusations.

It should be noted that, Riley, the person jailed was prosecuted 'following a complaint to the police' no reference is made to who the complainant is.                           
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on July 31, 2015, 10:36:36 AM
Last few times I did, they were deleted.

Just visit the forums (and twitter) Sadie, you know full well which ones I mean.


I thought you were as appalled as anyone else regarding the vicious trolls on the WWW who use the McCann case to vent their venomous bile and post their myths and lies  - and who are exposed, commented on and condemned for their appalling behaviour by those sites.   

Have you changed your mind?

I don't know of any sites dedicated to 'hating' Amaral and his family in that way.  Neither have I read any posts about Amaral's children - even though the twins are often brought into the equation by trolls.  I've never seen any posts regularly promoting violence against him either. 

In fact considering what is known about Amaral and his past personal history - I think he gets off very lightly.

Any suggestion that both sides are the same could not be more preposterous IMO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 10:50:12 AM

I thought you were as appalled as anyone else regarding the vicious trolls on the WWW who use the McCann case to vent their venomous bile and post their myths and lies  - and who are exposed, commented on and condemned for their appalling behaviour by those sites.   

Have you changed your mind?

I don't know of any sites dedicated to 'hating' Amaral and his family in that way.  Neither have I read any posts about Amaral's children - even though the twins are often brought into the equation by trolls.  I've never seen any posts regularly promoting violence against him either. 

In fact considering what is known about Amaral and his past personal history - I think he gets off very lightly.

Any suggestion that both sides are the same could not be more preposterous IMO.

Who are you trying to kid  ?

You know of no sites................ 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(

Anyone who posts on here will know full well where they are, as well as those on both sides on twitter.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 11:53:55 AM
Who are you trying to kid  ?

You know of no sites................ 8(*( 8(*( 8(*(

Anyone who posts on here will know full well where they are, as well as those on both sides on twitter.

I wonder why you feel the need to defend trolls posting on the internet.  Bearing in mind there are many using different techniques to hound and torture victims who have revealed any kind of weakness ... recently a young woman overdosed on diet pills bought on line and her mother revealed she had been mercilessly hounded by trolls jeering about her weight.

Apparently trolling is not a victimless crime but a crime without a perpetrator.

However I think you are intelligent enough to recognise the connection which binds all these internet abusers whether their target is the family of a missing child or a teenager suffering acne; which is why I am bemused that you wish to be tainted by association.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
I wonder why you feel the need to defend trolls posting on the internet.  Bearing in mind there are many using different techniques to hound and torture victims who have revealed any kind of weakness ... recently a young woman overdosed on diet pills bought on line and her mother revealed she had been mercilessly hounded by trolls jeering about her weight.

Apparently trolling is not a victimless crime but a crime without a perpetrator.

However I think you are intelligent enough to recognise the connection which binds all these internet abusers whether their target is the family of a missing child or a teenager suffering acne; which is why I am bemused that you wish to be tainted by association.

All this bravado won't wash.

I condemned hatred from both sides a long while ago.

YOU WON'T.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 12:10:04 PM
All this bravado won't wash.

I condemned hatred from both sides a long while ago.

YOU WON'T.

You have given absolutely no evidence whatsoever of the claims you make regarding "both" sides ... so what is there to condemn??

           By the way ... don't you know it is considered terribly rude to shout all the time.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 12:17:30 PM
You have given absolutely no evidence whatsoever of the claims you make regarding "both" sites ... so what is there to condemn??

           By the way ... don't you know it is considered terribly rude to shout all the time.


Oh I have before.


You really must stop making things up.

P.S. I wasn't 'shouting'. If I was, you would know. 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 01:00:06 PM
You have given absolutely no evidence whatsoever of the claims you make regarding "both" sites ... so what is there to condemn??

           By the way ... don't you know it is considered terribly rude to shout all the time.

The worst examples were - fortunately for the person in charge of the site (who is well known to everyone here) - thrown down the memory hole by the company hosting it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 01:06:09 PM
I don't think I have made myself clear enough, Lyall, I do not think it is at all easy to bring a successful prosecution in matters of this kind and I think the maximum sentence for such offences being two years is risible.
It illustrates that the law is not keeping pace with the effects of internet trolling.

When you say ... "It looks like his tweets about the teacher weren't random, idiotic acts but the culmination of communications that may have been prosecutable themselves (without which they may not have been confident of achieving a conviction)." ... think about the very active internet campaigns which have gone on undeterred for over eight years which are not random and with many instances of prosecutable comments being made.

The same type of mentality which drove the troll in the case you mention is evident day and daily in relation to the Drs McCann and anyone connected to them ... and not only on twitter.

Even the charitable giving using Gofundme is being used as an opportunity and a platform to further disseminate poisonous bile against a couple whose much loved daughter is missing ... by people many of whom are proud to be self proclaimed trolls.

You're missing the comment by the magistrate about that particular idiots record for making communications that may have or definitely did also infringe religious and racial legislation.

That's what (I would hope) is missing from the communication histories of those you'd like to see prosecuted over their comments about this case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 01:26:53 PM
I reckon the only reason Spivey has been prosecuted is because Lee Rigby's parents went to the police about him themselves.  There are certainly at least a dozen individuals who could find themselves in the same position if the McCanns themselves reported their activites, IMO.

I would think they and their advisors/lawyers recognise it would only create martyrs. That should be very obvious after what happened to Brenda.

More martyrs is the last thing you or they need.

You beat the idiots by isolating them and making them insignificant, but unfortunately neither 'side' does that. Instead they feed their egos.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
Unfortunately many of the comments posted by these people are libellous ... and therefore illegal ... if you are happy to rise in their defence and if they are happy to be called trolls ... who are we to deny them their right to that soubriquet.

Libel, unlike criminal behaviour, has to be proved by those claiming to have been damaged. You may say people are making libelous comments, but that is just your opinion.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 01:49:13 PM
Libel, unlike criminal behaviour, has to be proved by those claiming to have been damaged. You may say people are making libelous comments, but that is just your opinion.

Which country's laws are you referring to?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 01:59:42 PM
I would think they and their advisors/lawyers recognise it would only create martyrs. That should be very obvious after what happened to Brenda.

More martyrs is the last thing you or they need.

You beat the idiots by isolating them and making them insignificant, but unfortunately neither 'side' does that. Instead they feed their egos.
Do you think Spivey will be considered a martyr if he gets punished? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 02:00:33 PM
Libel, unlike criminal behaviour, has to be proved by those claiming to have been damaged. You may say people are making libelous comments, but that is just your opinion.
not in this country it doesn't.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:02:05 PM
The worst examples were - fortunately for the person in charge of the site (who is well known to everyone here) - thrown down the memory hole by the company hosting it.

I have absolutely no idea to which site you refer ... however you are highlighting and making allegations about one site which apparently no longer exists ... whereas I am spoilt for choice.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:02:33 PM
Do you think Spivey will be considered a martyr if he gets punished?
His followers will think he is, but I don't think he has many. After the Summers and Swan book, and the idiotic Sky News action, the people in your dozen do have many.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:06:41 PM
I have absolutely no idea to which site you refer ... however you are highlighting and making allegations about one site which apparently no longer exists ... whereas I am spoilt for choice.

True. I can't deny that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 02:07:40 PM
His followers will think he is, but I don't think he has many. After the Summers and Swan book, and the idiotic Sky News action, the people in your dozen do have many.
Quantify "many".  You seem to be arguing that individuals who break laws should be let off in case other sickos revere them as martyrs - a good argument not to prosecute terrorists then!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:15:25 PM
You're missing the comment by the magistrate about that particular idiots record for making communications that may have or definitely did also infringe religious and racial legislation.

That's what (I would hope) is missing from the communication histories of those you'd like to see prosecuted over their comments about this case.

I have not missed it.  I have included the quote from the troll himself who appears mystified that it was his abuse of the murdered teacher that had been complained about and not his religious and racial hatred diatribes.

A troll is a troll and some may have a multiplicity of targets much as this man had.

I am unable to quote directly in line with forum rules ... but I think you will get my gist when I refer to posts concerning the ethnicity and religious beliefs of the Drs McCann being added to the mix of allegations prevalent among the trolls who post on anything McCann and on every opportunity which comes up.

I refer to the organised assaults on comment opportunities in the tabloids and broadsheets.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:19:51 PM
Libel, unlike criminal behaviour, has to be proved by those claiming to have been damaged. You may say people are making libelous comments, but that is just your opinion.

         Which rather puts my opinion firmly in the same box as that of Maria de Melo e Castro.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:21:51 PM
Quantify "many".  You seem to be arguing that individuals who break laws should be let off in case other sickos revere them as martyrs - a good argument not to prosecute terrorists then!

They have hundreds, but there are thousands who still have strong opinions about the case (and a great many more who see that so far there is no evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, or to support what DCI Redwood may - or may not - have believed himself. That's your real problem, not the social media folk).

Your argument would have made more sense before the stupid action Sky News took. But you can't reverse time now. That's what I'm arguing.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
not in this country it doesn't.

Q. What Do I Have to Prove in a Defamation Claim?
A. In both libel and slander cases, you need to prove that:


The allegations have been published to one or more persons (other than yourself)
The allegations refer to you – either that you are named, pictured or are identifiable in some other way
That the words tend to lower you in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
In slander cases, you will also need to prove that you have suffered financial loss, unless the allegations relate to your profession or an offence punishable by imprisonment.



To read more about this from Slater and Gordon see: http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-libel-and-privacy/faqs/#ixzz3hTVQcXuN
Follow us: @slatergordonUK on Twitter
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:27:35 PM
I have not missed it.  I have included the quote from the troll himself who appears mystified that it was his abuse of the murdered teacher that had been complained about and not his religious and racial hatred diatribes.

A troll is a troll and some may have a multiplicity of targets much as this man had.

I am unable to quote directly in line with forum rules ... but I think you will get my gist when I refer to posts concerning the ethnicity and religious beliefs of the Drs McCann being added to the mix of allegations prevalent among the trolls who post on anything McCann and on every opportunity which comes up.

I refer to the organised assaults on comment opportunities in the tabloids and broadsheets.

I know that's organised. They operate like a pressure group, or a lobby. But that's not illegal in itself.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:29:37 PM
They have hundreds, but there are thousands who still have strong opinions about the case (and a great many more who see that so far there is no evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, or to support what DCI Redwood may - or may not - have believed himself. That's your real problem, not the social media folk).

Your argument would have made more sense before the stupid action Sky News took. But you can't reverse time now. That's what I'm arguing.

If you think that the views of repeat contributors to Mr Amaral's Gofundme appeal who are numbered in the hundreds are indicative of the opinions held by normal people about Madeleine McCann's case ... you delude yourself.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 02:34:14 PM
If you think that the views of repeat contributors to Mr Amaral's Gofundme appeal who are numbered in the hundreds are indicative of the opinions held by normal people about Madeleine McCann's case ... you delude yourself.

and do you really believe when normal people are actually told the truth, and there's zip all evidence of abduction, and the fact that there has been no trace of Madeleine in well over 8 years, that they won'[t question the mccanns version of events ?

Mind you, most normal people don't give a monkey's about this case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:40:11 PM
I know that's organised. They operate like a pressure group, or a lobby. But that's not illegal in itself.

Did I say it was?  Abhorrent and immoral yes; and very much an unedifying show of trolls at work.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 02:42:58 PM
Q. What Do I Have to Prove in a Defamation Claim?
A. In both libel and slander cases, you need to prove that:


The allegations have been published to one or more persons (other than yourself)
The allegations refer to you – either that you are named, pictured or are identifiable in some other way
That the words tend to lower you in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
In slander cases, you will also need to prove that you have suffered financial loss, unless the allegations relate to your profession or an offence punishable by imprisonment.



To read more about this from Slater and Gordon see: http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-libel-and-privacy/faqs/#ixzz3hTVQcXuN
Follow us: @slatergordonUK on Twitter

I don't see the issue.

If someone writes something on the Internet or in a media report, that person has necessarily communicated that message to more than one person.

If the person is named or alluded to in such a way as to be identifiable, then that's covered.

Then there is the issue of damage. I'm not sure how many right-thinking people would find that accusing third parties of criminal activity would not lower their reputation.

An exception to that would be of the substantiated whistleblower type.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 02:43:23 PM
Q. What Do I Have to Prove in a Defamation Claim?
A. In both libel and slander cases, you need to prove that:


The allegations have been published to one or more persons (other than yourself)
The allegations refer to you – either that you are named, pictured or are identifiable in some other way
That the words tend to lower you in the eyes of right thinking members of society.
In slander cases, you will also need to prove that you have suffered financial loss, unless the allegations relate to your profession or an offence punishable by imprisonment.



To read more about this from Slater and Gordon see: http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-libel-and-privacy/faqs/#ixzz3hTVQcXuN
Follow us: @slatergordonUK on Twitter
Yes, and...?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
If you think that the views of repeat contributors to Mr Amaral's Gofundme appeal who are numbered in the hundreds are indicative of the opinions held by normal people about Madeleine McCann's case ... you delude yourself.

Yes, we know that the majority are either apathetic or inclined for understandable reasons to not think the worst about a child's parents.

But you have to recognise that a great many - millions over the world - are fascinated by true crime cases and until there is evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, this case will always fascinate many of them. That's not because of anything the social media folk have done, that's because of the evidence (or lack of it).
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 02:48:11 PM
and do you really believe when normal people are actually told the truth, and there's zip all evidence of abduction, and the fact that there has been no trace of Madeleine in well over 8 years, that they won'[t question the mccanns version of events ?

Mind you, most normal people don't give a monkey's about this case.

Doesn't it strike you that normal people already know that many lies have been told to try to implicate the Drs Mcann in Madeleine's disappearance.

I rather think your assertion that most normal people don't give a monkeys is disproved when one thinks of the many who noticed the little girl at the football match who looked much like the age progressed photos of Madeleine.

There are still a lot of people who want her found.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
They have hundreds, but there are thousands who still have strong opinions about the case (and a great many more who see that so far there is no evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, or to support what DCI Redwood may - or may not - have believed himself. That's your real problem, not the social media folk).

Your argument would have made more sense before the stupid action Sky News took. But you can't reverse time now. That's what I'm arguing.
I don't have a problem, real or otherwise thanks.  You may be of the opinion that Brenda is a shining  martyr to justice, but not in the eyes of 99.9% recurring of the general population.  If other nutters take inspiration from her death and decide that continuing to torment the parents of a missing child is her name is a good thing to do, then that's where the law should step in and sort it out.  That will only happen however at the behest of the tormented themselves, as in the Spivey case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 02:58:33 PM
I don't have a problem, real or otherwise thanks.  You may be of the opinion that Brenda is a shining  martyr to justice, but not in the eyes of 99.9% recurring of the general population.  If other nutters take inspiration from her death and decide that continuing to torment the parents of a missing child is her name is a good thing to do, then that's where the law should step in and sort it out.  That will only happen however at the behest of the tormented themselves, as in the Spivey case.

In this case it's now too late. There are a few individuals I don't think many would care about,if they were prosecuted (they're so obviously nutcases). But prosecuting them would make little difference.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 03:09:33 PM
Yes, we know that the majority are either apathetic or inclined for understandable reasons to not think the worst about a child's parents.

But you have to recognise that a great many - millions over the world - are fascinated by true crime cases and until there is evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, this case will always fascinate many of them. That's not because of anything the social media folk have done, that's because of the evidence (or lack of it).

I agree that people love a mystery however I disagree that social media trolls haven't had a hand in perpetuating utter balderdash about Madeleine McCann's case and I think that is one of the biggest mysteries ... why do they feel motivated to keep up the assaults on her family and join gangs to do so, over a period lasting eight years.

In my opinion that is irrational behaviour.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 03:10:43 PM
In this case it's now too late. There are a few individuals I don't think many would care about,if they were prosecuted (they're so obviously nutcases). But prosecuting them would make little difference.
Would make little difference to what?  I think actually if a dozen of the worst McCann tormentors were prosecuted it might give the rest pause for thought, even if it doesn't stop them.  Of course even if Spivey is sent down there will be others to carry on his evil work, does that mean he should never have been prosecuted in the first place? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 03:19:48 PM
Would make little difference to what?  I think actually if a dozen of the worst McCann tormentors were prosecuted it might give the rest pause for thought, even if it doesn't stop them.  Of course even if Spivey is sent down there will be others to carry on his evil work, does that mean he should never have been prosecuted in the first place?

I am of that opinion as well ... it wouldn't take much to send out a zero tolerance message to other trolls who I think by definition are total cowards.

What it does show is that far from being the litigious people of myth and fable ... the Drs McCann haven't taken action against a fraction of MSM and individuals they could have ... the initial action they took sufficed along with the release of the files showing the lies and misinformation they had been fed about the case.

The point being that the Drs McCann have more to contend with than suing idiots ...  they need their energies to look for their missing daughter and concentrate on their other children having as normal a childhood as is possible in the circumstances.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 03:19:54 PM
Would make little difference to what?  I think actually if a dozen of the worst McCann tormentors were prosecuted it might give the rest pause for thought, even if it doesn't stop them.  Of course even if Spivey is sent down there will be others to carry on his evil work, does that mean he should never have been prosecuted in the first place?

So what would be the point of the prosecutions then, if you recognise they wouldn't stop online discussion? If people were doing stupid things like going to their home town, then I'm sure many would agree that's not acceptable. But they aren't, and never did as far as I know (apart from one well known occasion).
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 03:22:15 PM
So what would be the point of the prosecutions then, if you recognise they wouldn't stop online discussion? If people were doing stupid things like going to their home town, then I'm sure many would agree that's not acceptable. But they aren't, and never did as far as I know (apart from one well known occasion).
Well let's see - what's the point of prosecuting burglars or rapists, when it won't stop others burgling and raping...?  Over to you.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 03:25:42 PM
I agree that people love a mystery however I disagree that social media trolls haven't had a hand in perpetuating utter balderdash about Madeleine McCann's case and I think that is one of the biggest mysteries ... why do they feel motivated to keep up the assaults on her family and join gangs to do so, over a period lasting eight years.

In my opinion that is irrational behaviour.

Because of Madeleine. It's as simple as that. As we  saw in May 2007 missing child cases generate the strongest emotions. That emotion still remains on the forums.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 03:26:34 PM
Yes, we know that the majority are either apathetic or inclined for understandable reasons to not think the worst about a child's parents.

But you have to recognise that a great many - millions over the world - are fascinated by true crime cases and until there is evidence in the public domain to support your opinion, this case will always fascinate many of them. That's not because of anything the social media folk have done, that's because of the evidence (or lack of it).

An underlying issue, IMO, is the tabloid sensationalism, which then fuels speculation and a trial by media.

I'm not just thinking of the McCann and the Cipriano cases in Portugal, but the Jo Yeates case in the UK, and numerous ones in the US and no doubt elsewhere as well.

A US case in point is the disappearance of Kyron Horman. When this little boy disappeared around 5 years ago, the tabloids were all over it (quite possibly with some irresponsible police half-baked leaks) and the commentariat fully expected the stepmum to be arrested for murder (and I've no idea whether she's innocent or guilty). Five years on, the father is now expressing hope that he may still be alive...

In the meantime, of course, the stepmum's reputation is in shreds due to the speculation to the point where she has had a hard time even finding a job.

http://www.katu.com/news/investigators/Five-years-later-why-Kyron-Hormans-dad-believes-hes-alive-305768091.html

Another issue is the glee with which people objectify / dehumanise others - they are no longer treated as human beings caught up in a tragedy, but more like characters in a video game who don't really exist.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 03:33:00 PM
Yes, and...?

Well, your answer wasn't that clear, but did you say a person doesn't have to prove they have been libelled in this country? If you did mean that, I posted to show that they do have to prove it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 03:33:26 PM
Well let's see - what's the point of prosecuting burglars or rapists, when it won't stop others burgling and raping...?  Over to you.

You can't throw it over to me. You originally said: I'm sure they'd prosecute if the McCanns wanted them to. I suggested why they may not want them to. You didn't give an opinion about why there have been no prosecutions (apart from the chap who published booklets), so it's you who still has explaining to do.

If they're as desirable to others as they are to you, why have there been no prosecutions?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 03:40:03 PM
Doesn't it strike you that normal people already know that many lies have been told to try to implicate the Drs Mcann in Madeleine's disappearance.

I rather think your assertion that most normal people don't give a monkeys is disproved when one thinks of the many who noticed the little girl at the football match who looked much like the age progressed photos of Madeleine.

There are still a lot of people who want her found.

By normal people do you mean people who, unlike us, don't spend their time arguing on internet forums? I think they neither know much about this case or care. It's history for most, if they remember it at all.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 03:42:30 PM
Because of Madeleine. It's as simple as that. As we  saw in May 2007 missing child cases generate the strongest emotions. That emotion still remains on the forums.

Are you under the impression that the trolls who excoriate her parents have the slightest regard for Madeleine McCann?

Indeed, they have resisted and campaigned and ridiculed every initiative made by her parents on her behalf.  I do not know what emotions they are expressing but among those missing are love, empathy and concern for Madeleine McCann.

Riding under a banner of "Justice for Madeleine" while conducting every campaign possible under the sun to derail those actually doing something to achieve just that is subscribing to duplicity.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 03:46:20 PM
Are you under the impression that the trolls who excoriate her parents have the slightest regard for Madeleine McCann?

Indeed, they have resisted and campaigned and ridiculed every initiative made by her parents on her behalf.  I do not know what emotions they are expressing but among those missing are love, empathy and concern for Madeleine McCann.

Riding under a banner of "Justice for Madeleine" while conducting every campaign possible under the sun to derail those actually doing something to achieve just that is subscribing to duplicity.

I would say exactly the same thing about the mccann supporting trolls.

All they're interested in is attacking those who don't believe the mccanns, and of course their chief target, Amaral.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 03:48:03 PM
Are you under the impression that the trolls who excoriate her parents have the slightest regard for Madeleine McCann?

Indeed, they have resisted and campaigned and ridiculed every initiative made by her parents on her behalf.  I do not know what emotions they are expressing but among those missing are love, empathy and concern for Madeleine McCann.

Riding under a banner of "Justice for Madeleine" while conducting every campaign possible under the sun to derail those actually doing something to achieve just that is subscribing to duplicity.

You asked why they do what they do. It's a missing child case, and no more explanation is needed. These cases generate the strongest emotions.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
By normal people do you mean people who, unlike us, don't spend their time arguing on internet forums? I think they neither know much about this case or care. It's history for most, if they remember it at all.

This must be one for the book ... I agree with most of that ... with the exception that I think there are still many people who would like Madeleine's case brought to a satisfactory conclusion.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
You can't throw it over to me. You originally said: I'm sure they'd prosecute if the McCanns wanted them to. I suggested why they may not want them to. You didn't give an opinion about why there have been no prosecutions (apart from the chap who published booklets), so it's you who still has explaining to do.

If they're as desirable to others as they are to you, why have there been no prosecutions?

If the McCanns decided to prosecute people writing about them on the internet it would generate publicity which wouldn't necessarily be helpful to the McCanns imo.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 03:55:47 PM
If the McCanns decided to prosecute people writing about them on the internet it would generate publicity which wouldn't necessarily be helpful to the McCanns imo.

I think so too G. But Alfred apparently wants them anyway.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 03:59:15 PM
Are you under the impression that the trolls who excoriate her parents have the slightest regard for Madeleine McCann?

Indeed, they have resisted and campaigned and ridiculed every initiative made by her parents on her behalf.  I do not know what emotions they are expressing but among those missing are love, empathy and concern for Madeleine McCann.

Riding under a banner of "Justice for Madeleine" while conducting every campaign possible under the sun to derail those actually doing something to achieve just that is subscribing to duplicity.

It all depends on your viewpoint Brietta. You believe the abduction took place, that the McCanns are completely innocent and that Madeleine could be found. Others don't believe there was an abduction, they think the McCanns are hiding something and that Madeleine is unlikely to be found. Two opposing viewpoints. Attacking those who don't share your viewpoint is a waste of your time because it won't make any difference. Until (if) the case is solved no-one knows who's right and who's wrong.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 31, 2015, 04:01:17 PM

Forget The McCanns for a minute.  What about just plain Trolling, attacking anyone who is in distress?
Something needs to be done.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 04:01:43 PM
This must be one for the book ... I agree with most of that ... with the exception that I think there are still many people who would like Madeleine's case brought to a satisfactory conclusion.

I agree. I wish they would bring the case to a conclusion. I may not agree about which conclusion is likely, of course.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
Forget The McCanns for a minute.  What about just plain Trolling, attacking anyone who is in distress?
Something needs to be done.

What though ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:04:43 PM
If the McCanns decided to prosecute people writing about them on the internet it would generate publicity which wouldn't necessarily be helpful to the McCanns imo.

I disagree (back to normal then).

The Drs McCann have been involved in a libel trial in Portugal for a number of years.  This has taken up time and energy which could have been better spent in working in the search for their daughter and devoting more time to their other children, although this trial was a factor in that and had to be got out of the way for that reason.

I think the assessment might have been made that although an irritant the trolls have not actually been harming the search for Madeleine in the same way Mr Amaral's allegations have (bearing in mind his status in the case) and the trolls can be safely put on the back burner for the time being.

I think public opinion is against trolls of any description as more and more ordinary folk either have experience or know someone who has had experience of the misuse of social media being used to detrimental effect by them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:06:08 PM
Forget The McCanns for a minute.  What about just plain Trolling, attacking anyone who is in distress?
Something needs to be done.

Something is done. Occasionally. You should be asking the police and/or CPS why it's not done more often really.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 04:08:50 PM
I disagree (back to normal then).

The Drs McCann have been involved in a libel trial in Portugal for a number of years.  This has taken up time and energy which could have been better spent in working in the search for their daughter and devoting more time to their other children, although this trial was a factor in that and had to be got out of the way for that reason.

I think the assessment might have been made that although an irritant the trolls have not actually been harming the search for Madeleine in the same way Mr Amaral's allegations have (bearing in mind his status in the case) and the trolls can be safely put on the back burner for the time being.

I think public opinion is against trolls of any description as more and more ordinary folk either have experience or know someone who has had experience of the misuse of social media being used to detrimental effect by them.

I wonder if the public at large were aware of the trolls supporting the mccanns, what their attitude would be ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 04:11:40 PM
Forget The McCanns for a minute.  What about just plain Trolling, attacking anyone who is in distress?
Something needs to be done.

The problem is, Eleanor, that there are several definitions of trolling. Some of them don't include 'attacking anyone who is in distress'. That's just your definition. Before anything can be done a firm definition has to be arrived at, one which everyone agrees on. Trolling isn't illegal and the police have said, I think, that the existing laws are fine to deal with people who break the law on the internet.

Here's a couple of definitions for you;

Urban Dictionary’s top rated definition for “trolling,” it can be defined as:

“Being a p***k on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.”

Wikipedia defines it as:

"Someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
I disagree (back to normal then).

The Drs McCann have been involved in a libel trial in Portugal for a number of years.  This has taken up time and energy which could have been better spent in working in the search for their daughter and devoting more time to their other children, although this trial was a factor in that and had to be got out of the way for that reason.

I think the assessment might have been made that although an irritant the trolls have not actually been harming the search for Madeleine in the same way Mr Amaral's allegations have (bearing in mind his status in the case) and the trolls can be safely put on the back burner for the time being.

I think public opinion is against trolls of any description as more and more ordinary folk either have experience or know someone who has had experience of the misuse of social media being used to detrimental effect by them.

And the best thing to do about it was select someone randomly like Sky News?

You should be condemning them as much as we do.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
Something is done. Occasionally. You should be asking the police and/or CPS why it's not done more often really.

It would be interesting to know what the figures are for different policing authorities and prosecution services for crimes of this type.
Some authorities appear to have a better record of successful prosecutions than others.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 04:15:45 PM
Something is done. Occasionally. You should be asking the police and/or CPS why it's not done more often really.

I expect that the police / CPS are overwhelmed and only take action in specific incidents that have gone viral and in which there is a clear transgression of a criminal law at issue.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 04:17:25 PM
I disagree (back to normal then).

The Drs McCann have been involved in a libel trial in Portugal for a number of years.  This has taken up time and energy which could have been better spent in working in the search for their daughter and devoting more time to their other children, although this trial was a factor in that and had to be got out of the way for that reason.

I think the assessment might have been made that although an irritant the trolls have not actually been harming the search for Madeleine in the same way Mr Amaral's allegations have (bearing in mind his status in the case) and the trolls can be safely put on the back burner for the time being.

I think public opinion is against trolls of any description as more and more ordinary folk either have experience or know someone who has had experience of the misuse of social media being used to detrimental effect by them.

How many 'normal' people have found and read Amaral's allegations would you think? I think very few.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 04:19:03 PM
Forget The McCanns for a minute.  What about just plain Trolling, attacking anyone who is in distress?
Something needs to be done.

I agree (whoever it concerns). As I tried to point out further up.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:22:55 PM
The problem is, Eleanor, that there are several definitions of trolling. Some of them don't include 'attacking anyone who is in distress'. That's just your definition. Before anything can be done a firm definition has to be arrived at, one which everyone agrees on. Trolling isn't illegal and the police have said, I think, that the existing laws are fine to deal with people who break the law on the internet.

Here's a couple of definitions for you;

Urban Dictionary’s top rated definition for “trolling,” it can be defined as:

“Being a p***k on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.”

Wikipedia defines it as:

"Someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

The Telecommunications Act would appear to be the best vehicle to use to deal with offenders ... if there is no specific crime for trolls (which I always thought of as lovable as in Alice's new avatar) I am sure there must be other legislation to suit.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:27:48 PM
I expect that the police / CPS are overwhelmed and only take action in specific incidents that have gone viral and in which there is a clear transgression of a criminal law at issue.

I think so too. They need to be confident of securing a conviction, and that perhaps is made more certain if religious and/or racial communications are also involved.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:28:51 PM
And the best thing to do about it was select someone randomly like Sky News?

You should be condemning them as much as we do.

Reference yet again, to Brenda Leyland's sad suicide rather detracts from the general discussion on internet trolls and suggests you have little to contribute ... which you and I know is not the case.

Please have more respect for her innocent family who very obviously want nothing to do with #mccann or the McCann boards and wish to put the whole sad affair behind them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:29:23 PM
The Telecommunications Act would appear to be the best vehicle to use to deal with offenders ... if there is no specific crime for trolls (which I always thought of as lovable as in Alice's new avatar) I am sure there must be other legislation to suit.

Read the recent Criminal Justice Act.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:31:22 PM
How many 'normal' people have found and read Amaral's allegations would you think? I think very few.


In Portugal he was never off the small screen promulgating his views and his book was a best seller there ... so quite a few I imagine.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:36:46 PM
Reference yet again, to Brenda Leyland's sad suicide rather detracts from the general discussion on internet trolls and suggests you have little to contribute ... which you and I know is not the case.

Please have more respect for her innocent family who very obviously want nothing to do with #mccann or the McCann boards and wish to put the whole sad affair behind them.

It's history Brietta, and if the people involved in that episode haven't learned from that history they may do the same things again.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
It's history Brietta, and if the people involved in that episode haven't learned from that history they may do the same things again.


It is a matter for Brenda Leyland's family who have to live with the circumstances of her death and should not be used by people like you or me for idle chit chat on an internet forum.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 04:50:03 PM

In Portugal he was never off the small screen promulgating his views and his book was a best seller there ... so quite a few I imagine.

CdaM (a tabloid rag with possibly the greatest access to PJ "leaks") appears to have had a massive circulation, somewhat like the Sun, no doubt with a similar readership demographic. Various other daily or weekly tabloids popped up and disappeared again... but the sensationalism was the same.

An issue, perhaps, is that tabloid readers may assume that whatever is reported is true and accurate. Then, of course, there's the Dear Jślia's show, for those watching daytime TV. I don't recall a single one of those related to the McCann issue (at least those that have been uploaded) that could in any way be described as neutral. They all appear to have featured exclusively Amaral's well-known pals or the man himself.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 04:59:41 PM

It is a matter for Brenda Leyland's family who have to live with the circumstances of her death and should not be used by people like you or me for idle chit chat on an internet forum.

I hope you wrote to Swan and Summers about it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 31, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
Well, your answer wasn't that clear, but did you say a person doesn't have to prove they have been libelled in this country? If you did mean that, I posted to show that they do have to prove it.
.
 
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/pdfs/ukpga_20130026_en.pdf
Key areas
    includes a requirement for claimants to show that they have suffered serious harm before suing for defamation
    removes the current presumption in favour of a jury trial
    introduces a defence of "responsible publication on matters of public interest"
    provides increased protection to operators of websites that host user-generated content, providing they comply with the procedure to enable the complainant to resolve disputes directly with the author of the material concerned
    introduces new statutory defences of truth and honest opinion to replace the common law defences of justification. and fair comment.
1         Serious harm
(1)    A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.
(2)    For the purposes of this section, harm to the reputation of a body that trades for profit is not “serious harm” unless it has caused or is likely to cause the body serious financial loss.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 31, 2015, 05:18:09 PM
What though ?

I don't know, Stephen, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't get away with most of this shit in France.
Not sure which Law would apply, except perhaps The Privacy Law.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 05:23:02 PM
I don't know, Stephen, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't get away with most of this shit in France.
Not sure which Law would apply, except perhaps The Privacy Law.
 

Unfortunately with the advent of proxy Internet addresses and for want of a better term, false e-mail, 'borrowed' e-mail addresses etc ; that could present problems.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 31, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
 

Unfortunately with the advent of proxy Internet addresses and for want of a better term, false e-mail, 'borrowed' e-mail addresses etc ; that could present problems.

Not really.  Email addresses can be tracked back by The Internet Provider.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 05:34:57 PM
Not really.  Email addresses can be tracked back by The Internet Provider.

I'm no expert in that field,  but some of my students have considerable IT 'knowledge'.

and of course they are Internet cafes
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on July 31, 2015, 06:04:32 PM
I'm no expert in that field,  but some of my students have considerable IT 'knowledge'.

and of course they are Internet cafes

If an Internet Troll wants to go to an Internet Cafe, then more power to his elbow.  But, but, people can be tracked through Internet Cafes.  It's just a question of determination.  And The Police don't appear to be very determined at the moment.
What will happen, of course, is that The Government will eventually crack down on Anonymous use.  Which won't bother me in the slightest.
I have only ever had one Email Address, and this contains both my maiden and married nme.

Oh, and Sabot is simply my Mother's initials.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
Well, your answer wasn't that clear, but did you say a person doesn't have to prove they have been libelled in this country? If you did mean that, I posted to show that they do have to prove it.
It's up to a court to decide if you've been libelled, you have to prove that "the words tend to lower you in the eyes of right thinking members of society" - not difficult I would have thought to make the case that being accused in writing of hiding your child's body in a freezer and being a paedo tends to lower one in the eyes of right-thinking members of society. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 31, 2015, 06:23:17 PM
If an Internet Troll wants to go to an Internet Cafe, then more power to his elbow.  But, but, people can be tracked through Internet Cafes.  It's just a question of determination.  And The Police don't appear to be very determined at the moment.
What will happen, of course, is that The Government will eventually crack down on Anonymous use.  Which won't bother me in the slightest.
I have only ever had one Email Address, and this contains both my maiden and married nme.

Oh, and Sabot is simply my Mother's initials.

It really comes down to how determined people are and let's not forget possible identity theft either.

As regards the police, I know from my contacts, that they now usually pursue cases they have a realistic chance of solving. All reports to the police are logged, but they don't have the manpower or resources anymore.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:25:09 PM
You can't throw it over to me. You originally said: I'm sure they'd prosecute if the McCanns wanted them to. I suggested why they may not want them to. You didn't give an opinion about why there have been no prosecutions (apart from the chap who published booklets), so it's you who still has explaining to do.

If they're as desirable to others as they are to you, why have there been no prosecutions?
I can't make head nor tail of this post, sorry.  You asked what is the point of prosecuting trolls if others will simply carry on in their place, and I replied what is the point of prosecuting any criminal when others will carry on in their place.  I think that's a fair question. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:26:22 PM
How many 'normal' people have found and read Amaral's allegations would you think? I think very few.
How many books did he sell?  What audience figures did his TV appearances and documentary achieve?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on July 31, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
I am of that opinion as well ... it wouldn't take much to send out a zero tolerance message to other trolls who I think by definition are total cowards.

What it does show is that far from being the litigious people of myth and fable ... the Drs McCann haven't taken action against a fraction of MSM and individuals they could have ... the initial action they took sufficed along with the release of the files showing the lies and misinformation they had been fed about the case.

The point being that the Drs McCann have more to contend with than suing idiots ...  they need their energies to look for their missing daughter and concentrate on their other children having as normal a childhood as is possible in the circumstances.

Be honest Brietta. The McCanns haven't taken action against the average non-believer because there is no money to be made from it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:35:56 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181523/Deeply-unpleasant-Lee-Rigby-troll-convicted-harassing-murdered-soldier-s-family-conspiracy-theories.html#ixzz3hUJpphlj

'Deeply unpleasant' Lee Rigby troll is convicted of harassing the murdered soldier’s family with conspiracy theories
Chris Spivey, 52, from Rochford, claimed 25-year-old soldier did not exist
Self-styled journalist said family had doctored photos to include the fusilier
He also claimed the murder was conspiracy to incite anti-Islamic messages
Spivey is now facing jail for harassing Fusilier Rigby's mother Lyn and half sister Sara

By Steph Cockroft for MailOnline

Published: 17:11, 31 July 2015  | Updated: 18:04, 31 July 2015 



 
 
   
 
 
 


Chris Spivey, 52, from Rochford, Essex, is facing jail after claiming the murder of Lee Rigby was staged

A 'deeply unpleasant' conspiracy theorist who claimed the murder of Lee Rigby was staged has been found guilty of harassing the soldier's family.

Chris Spivey, 52, made a string of outrageous claims about the soldier, including that his family were involved in a conspiracy with M15 to incite anti-Islamic propaganda.

The court heard how former tattooist and self-styled internet journalist even claimed that Fusilier Rigby did not exist and that his relatives had doctored their family pictures.

He also admitted in court that he believes the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers, the 7/7 London bombings and last month's terror attack in Tunisia, in which 30 Britons were killed, were all staged.

Today, Spivey, from Rochford, Essex, was warned that he faces jail after being found guilty of harassing the fusilier's mother Lyn and his half sister Sara McClure.

The court had been told how Spivey had started his campaign against Mrs Rigby the day after her son was brutally killed on the streets of Woolwich on May 22, 2013.



The 25-year-old was off duty when he was attacked and killed by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale.

The killers told passers-by they had murdered a soldier to avenge the deaths of Muslims by the British armed forces. They have since been jailed for life.

Chelmsford Magistrates' Court heard how Spivey made the bizarre accusations on his website where he regularly publishes opinions about world events.



Tony Abell, prosecuting, said Spivey had published material which was 'quite menacing and deeply unpleasant' and that his actions - including publishing personal family details - had left Mrs Rigby and Miss McClure fearing for their safety.


In a statement, Mrs Rigby said she had been left feeling 'helpless' and had 'cried for weeks' after he published her home address online.

And Miss McClure said in a statement: 'I now do not feel safe in my house and I want to move. He had put the rest of us at risk.'

The court heard how Spivey also alleged published a spoof front page from The Sun newspaper, with the headline 'Woolwich attack was staged: Lee Rigby doesn't exist'. He later told police that he believed Fusilier Rigby was not in the Army 'and if he was, he was a potato peeler at best.'





 















+7


Chris Spivey, 52, from Rochford, Essex, allegedly made a string of outrageous claims about Lee Rigby, including that his murder was a hoax
 















+7

The court heard how the tattoo artist and self-styled internet journalist (right) claimed that Fusilier Rigby (left) did not exist and that his relatives had doctored their family pictures to include the 25-year-old

Spivey, who denied the charges, claimed he was doing nothing more than 'expressing his opinions'. The father-of-one told the court today he was not aware the grieving family were aware of his website claims until he was arrested.

He said: 'I was not targeting anybody. I have never sent them any material or anything like that. I did not know they was looking at my website.'

On claiming the Rigby death was a hoax, he said: 'It's solely my opinion. I don't ask anyone to take my word for it.'

But the court had heard how, during a police interview when he was first arrested, Spivey admitted writing the posts which appeared on his website.

When he was later asked how he thought his posts would make the Rigby family feel, he said: 'They f****** deserve it. They don't have to read it. I have freedom of speech.'



Spivey claimed on his website that a family photo featured in an interview with Lyn Rigby (pictured) had been altered on Photoshop. He also said he thought the recent Tunisian shootings were staged
 















+7
Spivey claimed on his website that a family photo featured in an interview with Lyn Rigby (pictured) had been altered on Photoshop. He also said he thought the recent Tunisian shootings were staged



The former tattooist made the bizarre accusations on his website where he regularly publishes opinions about world events (pictured)
 
The former tattooist made the bizarre accusations on his website where he regularly publishes opinions about world events (pictured)

He added: 'I don't advertise it. If you know something is going to upset you, you don't read it, do you? If it's wrong, why haven't they sued me for libel? It's not harassment, it's libel isn't it?' 



He added: 'The evidence suggests Lyn Rigby didn't give two f**** about her son before he was murdered.'     

Spivey did admit sending a Facebook friend request to Miss McClure, claiming he wanted to enter into a dialogue with her about the killings.

'I was hoping she would talk to me and give me her views,' he said.

The court heard he also tried to make contact with Ian Rigby, the dead fusilier's stepfather on Facebook.

During the trial, District Judge Woollard quizzed him about his theories on other major news events, including the recent attack in Tunisia, all of which he suggested were fake. 



A group of about half a dozen of his supporters had gathered into the back of the courtroom to listen to the evidence during the two-day trial.

--------------------------------------

So, the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?






Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on July 31, 2015, 06:42:21 PM
[ moderated ]

So tell me Alfie how many internet commentators, apart from Bennett who unwisely participated in direct action, have the McCanns sued ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on July 31, 2015, 06:44:39 PM
So tell me Alfie how many internet commentators, apart from Bennett who unwisely participated in direct action, have the McCanns sued ?

don't worry...if you start doing the sort of things Bennett did you will get sued...but as long as you sit behind your computer at the back end of the net where very few read what you write you will be ok
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:53:20 PM
So tell me Alfie how many internet commentators, apart from Bennett who unwisely participated in direct action, have the McCanns sued ?
not enough in my view.  But actually I don't think they should sue these people, I think they should make criminal complaints about them to the police as did Lee Rigby's family.  Is there really any difference at all between his actions and the McCann "sceptic" nutters who spend 24/7 on twitter, who make threats and obscene comments on FB, who write blogs with the most appalling lies in them?  The short answer is no. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on July 31, 2015, 06:54:00 PM
So tell me Alfie how many internet commentators, apart from Bennett who unwisely participated in direct action, have the McCanns sued ?

They haven't sued anyone have they?  Which makes rather a mockery of the regular claims that they are 'Sue happy'.

Even with Bennett, all they wanted him to do was to stop spreading lies about them.  Personally I think they could have had the shirt off his back if they'd wanted to.     But they didn't - they just wanted him to stop and IIRC  he ignored every opportunity to do so and just carried on.     So all self-inflicted IMO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 06:55:18 PM
I can't make head nor tail of this post, sorry.  You asked what is the point of prosecuting trolls if others will simply carry on in their place, and I replied what is the point of prosecuting any criminal when others will carry on in their place.  I think that's a fair question.

It might be a fair question, but it's not the right question: Why have there been no prosecutions?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 06:57:11 PM
It might be a fair question, but it's not the right question: Why have there been no prosecutions?
Because the McCanns have obviously not involved the police in the manner that Lee Rigby's parents obviously did. 

I'll ask this again as it's relevant I think - the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 31, 2015, 07:01:58 PM
Because the McCanns have obviously not involved the police in the manner that Lee Rigby's parents obviously did. 

I'll ask this again as it's relevant I think - the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?

Who or what is Spivey?
If the Mail is saying uncomplimentary things about him/it then he/it must be a bit left wing.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 07:02:23 PM
Because the McCanns have obviously not involved the police in the manner that Lee Rigby's parents obviously did. 

I'll ask this again as it's relevant I think - the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?

I'll not be lighting candles for him. He's a Wum, and probably laughs his socks off when his followers take his stuff seriously.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 07:04:23 PM
Who or what is Spivey?
If the Mail is saying uncomplimentary things about him/it then he/it must be a bit left wing.
Really?  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 07:07:18 PM
I'll not be lighting candles for him. He's a Wum, and probably laughs his socks off when his followers take his stuff seriously.
No, he really means it man, just like the nutters who really believe the crap that gets trotted out about the McCanns vis-ą-vis murder, paedo rings, Cliff Richard, sex toys, Masons, fridges, government cover ups, blah blah blah.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
I'll not be lighting candles for him. He's a Wum, and probably laughs his socks off when his followers take his stuff seriously.

You may not be holding a light for him but apparently there are those who do.

For one I can't quite get my head around the undisguised hatred these people direct towards the Drs McCann who are damned whatever they do and damned whatever they don't do; but are apologists for any passing sociopaths whatever they have said or done as long as they are on record as sharing their views on the parents of a missing child.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 07:17:53 PM
No, he really means it man, just like the nutters who really believe the crap that gets trotted out about the McCanns vis-ą-vis murder, paedo rings, Cliff Richard, sex toys, Masons, fridges, government cover ups, blah blah blah.

Maybe, but you're always going to get people who'll believe anything. It would be nice if they kept themselves in one place - like Icke's forum - but they spread everywhere looking for leaders (leaders like Spivey unfortunately).
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 07:21:07 PM
Maybe, but you're always going to get people who'll believe anything. It would be nice if they kept themselves in one place - like Icke's forum - but they spread everywhere looking for leaders (leaders like Spivey unfortunately).
Poor Spivey.  He was "only asking questions" wasn't he?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 07:29:32 PM
Poor Spivey.  He was "only asking questions" wasn't he?

He's answering them at the moment ?{)(**
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on July 31, 2015, 07:30:38 PM
You may not be holding a light for him but apparently there are those who do.

For one I can't quite get my head around the undisguised hatred these people direct towards the Drs McCann who are damned whatever they do and damned whatever they don't do; but are apologists for any passing sociopaths whatever they have said or done as long as they are on record as sharing their views on the parents of a missing child.

What do you read it all for? I'm certain the McCanns don't. Why read it?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 07:35:48 PM
Because the McCanns have obviously not involved the police in the manner that Lee Rigby's parents obviously did. 

I'll ask this again as it's relevant I think - the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?

From what I can gather, the general idea is that free speech rules in the name of "democracy". If you were to claim that someone is a paedophile, when actually your literacy skills didn't extend to realising that that a paediatrician is actually a children's doctor... then that's still free speech. If some nutjobs decide to take vigilante action and firebomb and kill the doctor's family, then the fault is on those who assumed that the spoutings of the "truthseeker researcher" were accurate.

Numerous murders have been started by such people who appeal to the outraged but barely literate willing to take "action" in the name of "truth" and "justice".

We're supposed to be in an enlightened age... but sometimes it seems as if we're back to the middle ages.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 07:36:36 PM
How many books did he sell?  What audience figures did his TV appearances and documentary achieve?

In English? None.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 07:41:43 PM
Because the McCanns have obviously not involved the police in the manner that Lee Rigby's parents obviously did. 

I'll ask this again as it's relevant I think - the Daily Mail has proclaimed that Spivey is a troll - what do McCann "sceptics" think about this, and about him and his activities?

Ahem. There was a dossier, or a file if you take sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's term. Given to the Met by 'the family' he said. It didn't appear to contain anything illegal though.....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 07:44:35 PM
What do you read it all for? I'm certain the McCanns don't. Why read it?

I don't. 
(a)  he is far too foul mouthed for me and ...   
(b)  what he writes is utter balderdash 
However, it appears that the balderdash he writes has led him to a criminal court and all under his own steam.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 07:46:29 PM
In English? None.
You didn"t specify "in English" in your previous post - why the goalpost shift?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 07:50:22 PM
Ahem. There was a dossier, or a file if you take sir Bernard Hogan-Howe's term. Given to the Met by 'the family' he said. It didn't appear to contain anything illegal though.....
So what do you make of Spivey's actions then?  Why was he prosecuted when he was "only asking questions" in the manner of many of the McCann "sceptics"?  Do you view him as a truthseeker? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on July 31, 2015, 07:55:54 PM
In English? None.

His main success was in Portugal - which is where the child disappeared. Adding to which are the numerous matinée tabloid TV shows featuring either him or his pals, all at the very least insinuating that the child is dead, the parents are highly suspect and therefore there is no point in looking any further.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 08:41:54 PM
I don't. 
(a)  he is far too foul mouthed for me and ...   
(b)  what he writes is utter balderdash 
However, it appears that the balderdash he writes has led him to a criminal court and all under his own steam.

How do you know he's foul mouthed and he writes balderdash then? Hearsay?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on July 31, 2015, 09:07:38 PM
How do you know he's foul mouthed and he writes balderdash then? Hearsay?

Good Lord ... must you be so picky ... I have read the man ... which is why ... I do not read him.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 09:21:34 PM
So what do you make of Spivey's actions then?  Why was he prosecuted when he was "only asking questions" in the manner of many of the McCann "sceptics"?  Do you view him as a truthseeker?

He was prosecuted for and found guilty of harassment. I think he did a little more than ask questions.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 10:01:33 PM
He was prosecuted for and found guilty of harassment. I think he did a little more than ask questions.
What form did this harrassment take? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 10:14:16 PM
What form did this harrassment take?

Feel free to use google as i did. He wasn't prosecuted for trolling he was prosecuted for harassing. It's not the same thing.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
Feel free to use google as i did. He wasn't prosecuted for trolling he was prosecuted for harassing. It's not the same thing.

"Tony Abell, prosecuting, said Spivey had published material which was 'quite menacing and deeply unpleasant' and that his actions - including publishing personal family details - had left Mrs Rigby and Miss McClure fearing for their safety".

So how does this differ from the actions of some McCann "truthseekers"?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 10:45:59 PM
"Tony Abell, prosecuting, said Spivey had published material which was 'quite menacing and deeply unpleasant' and that his actions - including publishing personal family details - had left Mrs Rigby and Miss McClure fearing for their safety".

So how does this differ from the actions of some McCann "truthseekers"?

You seem to know all about the actions of some McCann truthseekers Alfred. I don't actually take any notice of the lunatic fringe on either side.

 Spivey also contacted them directly, apparently;

Spivey contacted Fusilier Rigby's mother Lyn and sister Sara McClure on numerous ocassions as they struggled to come to terms with their loss.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/595298/Chris-Spivey-Lee-Rigby-murder-aHOAX-guilty-harassment
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on July 31, 2015, 10:51:33 PM
"Spivey, who denied the charges, claimed he was doing nothing more than "expressing his opinions" and he was not aware the family were checking his website until he was arrested.

He said: "I was not targeting anybody. I have never sent them any material. I did not know they was looking at my website.

He said of the Lee Rigby murder hoax: "It's solely my opinion. I don't ask anyone to take my word for it.

"I have freedom of speech."



Read more: http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Conspiracy-theorist-claimed-Lee-Rigby-murder-hoax/story-27521796-detail/story.html#ixzz3hVZdFKk3
Follow us: @Essex_Chronicle on Twitter | essexchronicle on Facebook

Just how familiar does all this sound?  I'n genuinely surprised that there aren't more McCann "sceptics" coming out in sympathy for this poor, poor man - why not, pray tell?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on July 31, 2015, 11:27:26 PM
not enough in my view.  But actually I don't think they should sue these people, I think they should make criminal complaints about them to the police as did Lee Rigby's family.  Is there really any difference at all between his actions and the McCann "sceptic" nutters who spend 24/7 on twitter, who make threats and obscene comments on FB, who write blogs with the most appalling lies in them?  The short answer is no.

I totally agree strangely enough. If anyone on the internet has committed  a criminal offence with what they post then they should be dealt by the police. However simply suggesting the McCann's story is holier than a ripe Edam does not as yet thankfully constitute a criminal offence and supporters I'm afraid will just have to get over the fact.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on July 31, 2015, 11:30:57 PM
"Spivey, who denied the charges, claimed he was doing nothing more than "expressing his opinions" and he was not aware the family were checking his website until he was arrested.

He said: "I was not targeting anybody. I have never sent them any material. I did not know they was looking at my website.

He said of the Lee Rigby murder hoax: "It's solely my opinion. I don't ask anyone to take my word for it.

"I have freedom of speech."



Read more: http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Conspiracy-theorist-claimed-Lee-Rigby-murder-hoax/story-27521796-detail/story.html#ixzz3hVZdFKk3
Follow us: @Essex_Chronicle on Twitter | essexchronicle on Facebook

Just how familiar does all this sound?  I'n genuinely surprised that there aren't more McCann "sceptics" coming out in sympathy for this poor, poor man - why not, pray tell?

There seem to be at least two words which the supporters use to group a wide variety of people. One is 'troll' and the other is 'sceptic'. Suggesting that there's a cohesive group of people with similar behaviour and views. Please try to understand that there isn't, and if there is it's no use asking me about them because I am a member of no groups and i don't 'troll'.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 08:57:23 AM
I totally agree strangely enough. If anyone on the internet has committed  a criminal offence with what they post then they should be dealt by the police. However simply suggesting the McCann's story is holier than a ripe Edam does not as yet thankfully constitute a criminal offence and supporters I'm afraid will just have to get over the fact.
Firstly, Edam cheese tends not to have holes.
Secondly, suggesting that the McCanns covered up the death of their daughter and hid her body, repeatedly making such a claim, creating website(s) to promote this theory, re-tweeting crude photoshop images in the name of "satire", circulating the McCanns home address and google images of their house etc, is pretty much exactly what many "sceptics" have done over the years and these activities differ very little from the activities of Spivey.  What exactly is your view of Chris Spivey, him also being a McCann "sceptic" and all?   Is he a troll? Are his activities acceptable in the name of "freedom of speach (sic)"?  How about a straight answer from JF "sceptic" on this man's behaviour?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 01, 2015, 09:50:38 AM
Firstly, Edam cheese tends not to have holes.
Secondly, suggesting that the McCanns covered up the death of their daughter and hid her body, repeatedly making such a claim, creating website(s) to promote this theory, re-tweeting crude photoshop images in the name of "satire", circulating the McCanns home address and google images of their house etc, is pretty much exactly what many "sceptics" have done over the years and these activities differ very little from the activities of Spivey.  What exactly is your view of Chris Spivey, him also being a McCann "sceptic" and all?   Is he a troll? Are his activities acceptable in the name of "freedom of speach (sic)"?  How about a straight answer from JF "sceptic" on this man's behaviour?

Pretty bloody appalling.
As to whether McCann "sceptics" or "the only asking questions brigade" are doing the same thing and all that good stuff, as there is yet to be a prosecution brought by the law enforcement agencies one would incline to the view it is different in the eyes of the law. It is however up to the law to decide and act not us.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 10:01:18 AM
Pretty bloody appalling.
As to whether McCann "sceptics" or "the only asking questions brigade" are doing the same thing and all that good stuff, as there is yet to be a prosecution brought by the law enforcement agencies one would incline to the view it is different in the eyes of the law. It is however up to the law to decide and act not us.
There is absolutely no question at all that the McCanns have been subjected to the same sort of hateful online activities as Fusilier Rigby's family, the only mystery is why the McCanns have not sought to have charges brought against the worst offenders, indeed Spivey could well have been done for his online activities against them IMO.  The other mystery is why those that torment the McCanns in the way Spivey did the Rigbys aren't busy setting up a Fund for him, in the name of justice, free speach (sic) etc.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 01, 2015, 11:29:09 AM
There is absolutely no question at all that the McCanns have been subjected to the same sort of hateful online activities as Fusilier Rigby's family, the only mystery is why the McCanns have not sought to have charges brought against the worst offenders, indeed Spivey could well have been done for his online activities against them IMO.  The other mystery is why those that torment the McCanns in the way Spivey did the Rigbys aren't busy setting up a Fund for him, in the name of justice, free speach (sic) etc.

1 Uncertainty of outcome possibly.
2 What makes you think they are not? People set up funds for the most bizarre of reasons.
Do you remember the very short lived "Save Freddy Laker Fund" ?. Now that really was wacko.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 01, 2015, 11:29:37 AM
Firstly, Edam cheese tends not to have holes.
Secondly, suggesting that the McCanns covered up the death of their daughter and hid her body, repeatedly making such a claim, creating website(s) to promote this theory, re-tweeting crude photoshop images in the name of "satire", circulating the McCanns home address and google images of their house etc, is pretty much exactly what many "sceptics" have done over the years and these activities differ very little from the activities of Spivey.  What exactly is your view of Chris Spivey, him also being a McCann "sceptic" and all?   Is he a troll? Are his activities acceptable in the name of "freedom of speach (sic)"?  How about a straight answer from JF "sceptic" on this man's behaviour?

I'm sure if we look hard enough we'd find a member of a fanatical far right organisation who also thinks the McCanns are innocent. Is he morally then similar to you ?

BTW Spivey to me seems to be an attention seeker who will say anything to get noticed. If he has broken the law while indulging in this 'hobby' he deserves to be punished.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
There is absolutely no question at all that the McCanns have been subjected to the same sort of hateful online activities as Fusilier Rigby's family, the only mystery is why the McCanns have not sought to have charges brought against the worst offenders, indeed Spivey could well have been done for his online activities against them IMO.  The other mystery is why those that torment the McCanns in the way Spivey did the Rigbys aren't busy setting up a Fund for him, in the name of justice, free speach (sic) etc.

There was a dossier given to the police detailing what you say were 'the same sort of hateful online activities to which the McCanns were subjected'. The police and the CPS found those activities were not worthy of prosecution, so they must have been different. I assume the McCanns were aware of the dossier if it was their family who handed it over.(as Hogan-Howe suggested). Ergo no-one has 'tormented the McCanns in the way Spivey did the Rigbys', or they would have been arrested too.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 12:01:43 PM
There was a dossier given to the police detailing what you say were 'the same sort of hateful online activities to which the McCanns were subjected'. The police and the CPS found those activities were not worthy of prosecution, so they must have been different. I assume the McCanns were aware of the dossier if it was their family who handed it over.(as Hogan-Howe suggested). Ergo no-one has 'tormented the McCanns in the way Spivey did the Rigbys', or they would have been arrested too.
The dossier was compiled and handed to the police by McCann family supporters, not by the McCanns themselves - read the news reports of the time.  BHH was wrong, obviously.  Having been an observer myself of some of the online activities against the McCanns over the years I can state hand on heart that these differ in no substantive  way to the activities of Spivey.  There really is little or no difference, so either the police are not being even-handed in the way they go after trolls and online hate-merchants, or they are powerless to act unless the complaint comes directly from those suffering the abuse themselves.  It is my belief that the latter is the most likely reason why some of the worst McCann "sceptics" have not been dealt with in the same way as Spivey.   Perhaps if and when the McCanns get closure on their daughter's disappearance it will be time to go after these people cos they sure as hell ain't going to stop their tormenting any time soon.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 12:05:15 PM
I'm sure if we look hard enough we'd find a member of a fanatical far right organisation who also thinks the McCanns are innocent. Is he morally then similar to you ?

BTW Spivey to me seems to be an attention seeker who will say anything to get noticed. If he has broken the law while indulging in this 'hobby' he deserves to be punished.
What aspects of Spivey's behaviour then do you believe were illegal, because I can see very little difference between what he has done to the Rigbys and what some of the McCann "sceptics" have and are doing to Madeleine's family on a daily basis. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 01, 2015, 12:13:46 PM
The dossier was compiled and handed to the police by McCann family supporters, not by the McCanns themselves - read the news reports of the time.  BHH was wrong, obviously.  Having been an observer myself of some of the online activities against the McCanns over the years I can state hand on heart that these differ in no substantive  way to the activities of Spivey.  There really is little or no difference, so either the police are not being even-handed in the way they go after trolls and online hate-merchants, or they are powerless to act unless the complaint comes directly from those suffering the abuse themselves.  It is my belief that the latter is the most likely reason why some of the worst McCann "sceptics" have not been dealt with in the same way as Spivey.  Perhaps if and when the McCanns get closure on their daughter's disappearance it will be time to go after these people cos they sure as hell ain't going to stop their tormenting any time soon.


Were that the case, might the police have said so, instead of what Sky News reported below?


In a letter to the campaigners, Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."



http://news.sky.com/story/1475870/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 12:22:08 PM
The dossier was compiled and handed to the police by McCann family supporters, not by the McCanns themselves - read the news reports of the time.  BHH was wrong, obviously.  Having been an observer myself of some of the online activities against the McCanns over the years I can state hand on heart that these differ in no substantive  way to the activities of Spivey.  There really is little or no difference, so either the police are not being even-handed in the way they go after trolls and online hate-merchants, or they are powerless to act unless the complaint comes directly from those suffering the abuse themselves.  It is my belief that the latter is the most likely reason why some of the worst McCann "sceptics" have not been dealt with in the same way as Spivey.   Perhaps if and when the McCanns get closure on their daughter's disappearance it will be time to go after these people cos they sure as hell ain't going to stop their tormenting any time soon.

No alfred.

It is known the mccanns handed the dossier to the police.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 01, 2015, 12:26:35 PM
What aspects of Spivey's behaviour then do you believe were illegal, because I can see very little difference between what he has done to the Rigbys and what some of the McCann "sceptics" have and are doing to Madeleine's family on a daily basis.

I have no idea what aspects of Spivey's behaviour were illegal as I do what most sensible people do when they don't like what someone is posting on the internet and that's ignore it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 12:29:46 PM

Were that the case, might the police have said so, instead of what Sky News reported below?


In a letter to the campaigners, Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."



http://news.sky.com/story/1475870/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action
How does this contradict what I wrote?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 12:31:36 PM
I have no idea what aspects of Spivey's behaviour were illegal as I do what most sensible people do when they don't like what someone is posting on the internet and that's ignore it.
That's not true though is it?  You read and comment on plenty that you don't like on the internet.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 01, 2015, 12:38:11 PM
How does this contradict what I wrote?

The content of the messages, rather than the person/s who submitted them was mentioned in the police report with regard to prosecution (or lack of it.)

You seemed to feel that had the same complaints been submitted by the McCanns themselves, the outcome might have been different.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 12:45:28 PM
No alfred.

It is known the mccanns handed the dossier to the police.

Only according to "Another Place."  There is no proof.  Although I wouldn't care if it was The McCanns.  Are you saying that they shouldn't have done?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 12:52:13 PM
Only according to "Another Place."  There is no proof.  Although I wouldn't care if it was The McCanns.  Are you saying that they shouldn't have done?

You mean BHH ?

Have the people on the list broken the law ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 12:58:33 PM
You mean BHH ?

Have the people on the list broken the law ?

Do we know if any of them have been cautioned, or even told to stop it?

Laffin Assassin was.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
Do we know if any of them have been cautioned, or even told to stop it?

Laffin Assassin was.

I believe some action was taken against him.

I exchanged 'pleasantries' with him at one time.

He attacked me, calling me a mccann sympathizer, or the equivalent in less than 'complimentary' terms. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 01:51:38 PM
The content of the messages, rather than the person/s who submitted them was mentioned in the police report with regard to prosecution (or lack of it.)

You seemed to feel that had the same complaints been submitted by the McCanns themselves, the outcome might have been different.
Yes I do, unless the dossier failed to get across the sheer volume and intensity of the campaign against the McCanns over the last 8 years, which is always a possibility I suppose.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 02:02:39 PM
I believe some action was taken against him.

I exchanged 'pleasantries' with him at one time.

He attacked me, calling me a mccann sympathizer, or the equivalent in less than 'complimentary' terms.

You should have seen what he said to me by PM.  It was Libellous, Abusive and Threatening all on it's own.
No, I didn't do anything about it.  I just moved a machete to the top of my stairs.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 02:08:44 PM
You should have seen what he said to me by PM.  It was Libellous, Abusive and Threatening all on it's own.
No, I didn't do anything about it.  I just moved a machete to the top of my stairs.

It would not surprise me one iota.


If you didn't follow his lead, he was extremely 'unpleasant' Eleanor.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 02:25:45 PM
It would not surprised me one iota.


If you didn't follow his lead, he was extremely 'unpleasant' Eleanor.

Mostly wind and water, Stephen.  But he did worry me for a while.  He told me that he knew were I lived, although even I doubted that.  But I do live alone.
Oh, and that Yorkshire dickhead, author, whose name I can't remember, told me that I live near a Stone Quarry.  He wasn't far wrong about that.  But Brittany is a wealth of Stone Quarries.  I've even got one in my back garden.  Ha ha.

But you see, most of us have been subjected to this sort of thing over the years.

Is it a Troll, or is it a deluded Moron?

But we don't know how many of them were warned, if not prosecuted
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
Surely the McCann "sceptics" who are always going on about free speech and being entitled to say what they like must be disappointed with the verdict on Spivey?  After all, all he did was express his opinion.  He didn't physically harass anyone, did he?  He may have been a bit threatening and nasty to the Rigby family but wasn't Brenda nasty and threatening to a person she thought was Amy Tierney?  Explain the difference please.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 02:55:03 PM
Afterward Jenny Hopkins, chief crown prosecutor for CPS East of England, said Spivey's behaviour could not be justified under freedom of speech legislation.

She said: 'Mr Spivey posted a number of comments on social media about the murder of Fusilier Rigby which were very upsetting to his family and friends.

'People can and do post all kinds of comments on social media and are not prosecuted for them, but in this case we were satisfied that the posts crossed the line into criminal behaviour targeted at the Rigby family.

'The prosecution's case was that the combination of the postings, containing a mixture of grossly offensive remarks about the Rigby family, upsetting assertions surrounding the murder, and the publication of details of two of the family's homes, could not be justified under freedom of speech.

'Everyone should be able to go about their daily lives free from harassment caused by someone deliberately making grossly offensive messages about them on social media.

'We take allegations of this kind very seriously, especially where there is evidence of a course of conduct which causes fear or distress to someone, and which in this case made the victims feel unsafe in their own homes.' 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181523/Deeply-unpleasant-Lee-Rigby-troll-convicted-harassing-murdered-soldier-s-family-conspiracy-theories.html#ixzz3hZUVKSc5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 03:54:50 PM
Surely the McCann "sceptics" who are always going on about free speech and being entitled to say what they like must be disappointed with the verdict on Spivey?  After all, all he did was express his opinion.  He didn't physically harass anyone, did he?  He may have been a bit threatening and nasty to the Rigby family but wasn't Brenda nasty and threatening to a person she thought was Amy Tierney?  Explain the difference please.

One crossed the line into criminal behaviour and the other one didn't, according to the people who uphold the law. Take it up with them if you're not satisfied. In fact you could collect a dossier of all the comments you think are illegal and hand it to the police if it worries you so much.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2015, 04:00:31 PM
I believe some action was taken against him.

I exchanged 'pleasantries' with him at one time.

He attacked me, calling me a mccann sympathizer, or the equivalent in less than 'complimentary' terms.

Which proves outright the man is delusional to say the least if he thought you were a 'McCann sympathiser' ... or did he know that was the most hurtful epithet he could hurl at you?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 04:02:16 PM
Which proves outright the man is delusional to say the least if he thought you were a 'McCann sympathiser' ... or did he know that was the most hurtful epithet he could hurl at you?

It wasn't hurtful.

He was clearly  several pennies short of a pound coin.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
It wasn't hurtful.

He was clearly  several pennies short of a pound coin.

                          We are in agreement then ... laffin is no laughing matter.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
                          We are in agreement then ... laffin is no laughing matter.

Yup.

Is he still at it ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 04:24:59 PM
One crossed the line into criminal behaviour and the other one didn't, according to the people who uphold the law. Take it up with them if you're not satisfied. In fact you could collect a dossier of all the comments you think are illegal and hand it to the police if it worries you so much.
What makes you think I'm worried?  I'm simply making a point (and a good one at that, I believe).  Don't you defend Spivey's right to say what he likes and to whom he likes?  As far as I can make out from press reports the only direct contact he had with his victims was sending them FB friend requests, the rest of his activities were very similar in content to much McCann "sceptic" activity.  Maybe his conviction will inspire the McCanns to take action against their tormentors, and not before time.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 04:36:24 PM
What makes you think I'm worried?  I'm simply making a point (and a good one at that, I believe).  Don't you defend Spivey's right to say what he likes and to whom he likes?  As far as I can make out from press reports the only direct contact he had with his victims was sending them FB friend requests, the rest of his activities were very similar in content to much McCann "sceptic" activity.  Maybe his conviction will inspire the McCanns to take action against their tormentors, and not before time.

You are completely missing the point about criminal behaviour and trolling. One illegal, one not. One the subject of the thread, one not.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 04:48:33 PM
Yup.

Is he still at it ?

He very occasionally rears his ugly, fat head.  But he is very much more careful these days.

I don't know what should be done about it, probably because I can see the logic of the legal arguments.
This is what you have to learn to do if you wish to understand The Law.  It takes time and patience.

Judge Tugendhat said that Mr. Bennett had implied Libel.  Therein is the rub.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 04:59:24 PM
You are completely missing the point about criminal behaviour and trolling. One illegal, one not. One the subject of the thread, one not.
And you're completely ignoring or ignorant of the fact that Spivey's behaviour was virtually identical to many McCann "sceptics" ie: trolling and tormenting innocent people with hurtful and hateful conspiracy theories. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 05:02:26 PM
Not all trolling is criminal, but some of it clearly is hence Spivey's conviction, unless we're saying what he did was NOT trolling?!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 05:06:40 PM
You are completely missing the point about criminal behaviour and trolling. One illegal, one not. One the subject of the thread, one not.

These comments are all subjects of The Thread.  Only The Law can decide.  While we all discuss it ad infinitum.

Whether or not I would consider some such comments as worthy of punishment are not for me to say.  Since I haven't actually been asked to define.

There is often a great lack of logic on here.  Opinion is not fact.  But just how far should opinion be allowed to go?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 01, 2015, 05:23:04 PM
These comments are all subjects of The Thread.  Only The Law can decide.  While we all discuss it ad infinitum.

Whether or not I would consider some such comments as worthy of punishment are not for me to say.  Since I haven't actually been asked to define.

There is often a great lack of logic on here.  Opinion is not fact.  But just how far should opinion be allowed to go?
Opinion is OK as long as it is sensible opinion, based on facts, BUT it should always be stated that it is opinion and not left as absolute "fact".  That is the stuff of new myths.


And neither should the facts be twisted to give the results wanted to fulfill a personal hypothesis.  That is Fraud.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Opinion is OK as long as it is sensible opinion, based on facts, BUT it should always be stated that it is opinion and not left as absolute "fact".  That is the stuff of new myths.


And neither should the facts be twisted to give the results wanted to fulfill a personal hypothesis.  That is Fraud.

I will even go for not very sensible opinions.  I frequently do.  But they won't turn into facts on this Forum for as long as I am around

Not actually Fraud, Sadie.  This is the wrong legal terminology.  Gross Disemination at worst, and this is not actually a crime.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 05:41:38 PM
Not all trolling is criminal, but some of it clearly is hence Spivey's conviction, unless we're saying what he did was NOT trolling?!

To me, that seems to be the problem. Until we have a definitive definition of trolling how can we know what it is? At the moment it seems to be anything someone else disapproves of. It's not a criminal offence, whatever it is. When people are prosecuted it's for an offence which is illegal, such as harassment or racist comments.

Spivey may have trolled, but he wasn't convicted of trolling, he was convicted of harassment.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 05:45:12 PM

To me, that seems to be the problem. Until we have a definitive definition of trolling how can we know what it is? At the moment it seems to be anything someone else disapproves of. It's not a criminal offence, whatever it is. When people are prosecuted it's for an offence which is illegal, such as harassment or racist comments.

Spivey may have trolled, but he wasn't convicted of trolling, he was convicted of harassment.

What is harassment, in your opinion?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 05:56:35 PM
"This sense of the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment. For example, mass media has used troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families." - Wikipedia page on Troll, trolling.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
Then, from the same page, there is this:

"At times, the word can be abused to refer to anyone with controversial opinions they disagree with.[18] Such usages goes against the ordinary meaning of troll in multiple ways. Most importantly, trolls don't actually believe the controversial views they claim. Farhad Manjoo criticises this view, noting that if the person really is trolling, they are a lot more intelligent than their critics would believe". [18]

So, then perhaps Spivey isn't a troll after all, or is he...?  If he's not a troll then most of the "Justice Seekers for Maddie" cannot be labelled trolls either as they seem to sincerely believe the tripe they come out with, but it doesn't mean they are not guilty of similar actions as Spivey, which were detailed in the report I posted earlier. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 01, 2015, 06:22:00 PM
I often wonder why the McCanns didn't report Bennett to the police as Lee  Rigby's family did with Spivey instead of launching a civil case against him. Surely the police are in a better position to stop harassment than the courts.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 06:31:27 PM
I often wonder why the McCanns didn't report Bennett to the police as Lee  Rigby's family did with Spivey instead of launching a civil case against him. Surely the police are in a better position to stop harassment than the courts.
Maybe they did and the police weren't interested.  IMO, the police are very reluctant and / or slow to act in many of these cases of harassment.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 06:45:30 PM
I often wonder why the McCanns didn't report Bennett to the police as Lee  Rigby's family did with Spivey instead of launching a civil case against him. Surely the police are in a better position to stop harassment than the courts.

Oh, I think they did.  But Bennett wasn't listening.  He was creeping around their house, but no one actually caught him at it.  Hard to do after the event.

But what they did was to ask him to stop, which he refused to do.  So The McCanns agreed not to pursue him for Libel if he signed an undertaking.  Which he did sign.  And then he broke the undertaking, which was legally accredited.

He then thought that he could beat the undertaking that he had signed.

Is Bennett a Troll?  Probably not in the true sense of the word.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 06:48:15 PM
What is harassment, in your opinion?

I haven't actually thought about it and opinion means nothing anyway. It is for the law to decide what constitutes harassment and to act on it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 06:59:39 PM
I haven't actually thought about it and opinion means nothing anyway. It is for the law to decide what constitutes harassment and to act on it.

Then I would think about it if I were you.  Amaral's opinions seem to have carried some weight.  But English Courts can hardly put paid to him.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 07:00:33 PM
Surely the McCann "sceptics" who are always going on about free speech and being entitled to say what they like must be disappointed with the verdict on Spivey?  After all, all he did was express his opinion.  He didn't physically harass anyone, did he?  He may have been a bit threatening and nasty to the Rigby family but wasn't Brenda nasty and threatening to a person she thought was Amy Tierney?  Explain the difference please.

The guy also annoyed the Americans. He published a mass of provocative imagery and text about the Boston bombs- and their victims. (On other so-called 'false flags too.)

Nobody I'm aware of -not even the nuttiest of the #mccann tweeters - has been as extreme,on such a wide area of topics.

So there's the difference.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 07:04:22 PM
The guy also annoyed the Americans. He published a mass of provocative imagery and text about the Boston bombs- and their victims. (On other so-called 'false flags too.)

Nobody I'm aware of -not even the nuttiest of the #mccann tweeters - has been as extreme,on such a wide area of topics.

So there's the difference.
He was not convicted of annoying Americans, and his views on a wide range of subjects are beside the point.  His views on the McCanns are identical in most respects to the views of the nuttiest of #McCann tweeters, and his behaviour towards the Rigbys is very similar that which is meted out to the McCanns now and for the last 8 years.  If anything, the McCanns have had it much worse than Lee Rigby's family, as it has been going on for 8 years and they have been accused of appalling things and by many more than one nutter.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 07:15:17 PM
He was not convicted of annoying Americans, and his views on a wide range of subjects are beside the point.  His views on the McCanns are identical in most respects to the views of the nuttiest of #McCann tweeters, and his behaviour towards the Rigbys is very similar that which is meted out to the McCanns now and for the last 8 years.  If anything, the McCanns have had it much worse than Lee Rigby's family, as it has been going on for 8 years and they have been accused of appalling things and by many more than one nutter.

They have been talked about. A lot obviously. They may have been libelled in text, but they were never physically harassed by any of the people discussing the case online over the years. You should be honest about that.

You've only read the media reports about Spivey's activities I expect. The papers obviously can't report everything that was said and demonstrated in the courtroom, so you can't possibly compare his behaviour with anyone else. You don't know everything he did.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 07:20:05 PM
They have been talked about. A lot obviously. They may have been libelled in text, but they were never physically harassed by any of the people discussing the case online over the years. You should be honest about that.

You've only read the media reports about Spivey's activities I expect. The papers obviously can't report everything that was said and demonstrated in the courtroom, so you can't possibly compare his behaviour with anyone else. You don't know everything he did.
Firstly, the McCann have been physically harassed.  They have been stalked and their neighbourhood visited for the sole purpose of catching a glimpse of them.  Members of the online community have admitted this, also of reporting on them when encountering them on holiday.  Bennett and his bitch troll leafleted their neighbours.  One "sceptic" had the gall to give Kate McCann a hug in a supermarket in Rothley FGS. 
Secondly, I don't need to know everything Spivey did to know that what he DID do closely resembles what many hardcore "sceptics" have done.  I also believe that if he had physically harassed the Rigbys it would have been reported.  The reports tell us the the only direct contact between him and his victims was via Facebook.   
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 07:27:47 PM
Firstly, the McCann have been physically harassed.  They have been stalked and their neighbourhood visited for the sole purpose of catching a glimpse of them.  Members of the online community have admitted this, also of reporting on them when encountering them on holiday.  Bennett and his bitch troll leafleted their neighbours.  One "sceptic" had the gall to give Kate McCann a hug in a supermarket in Rothley FGS. 
Secondly, I don't need to know everything Spivey did to know that what he DID do closely resembles what many hardcore "sceptics" have done.  I also believe that if he had physically harassed the Rigbys it would have been reported.  The reports tell us the the only direct contact between him and his victims was via Facebook.   

They have I'm sure received a lot of nasty mail (most of which will be from the type of nuts who write to any 'celebrity') but the other 'incidents' you mention don't amount to much. TB and ex-pal did it just the once? I think so, and they were condemned for it at the time as you know.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 07:30:31 PM
They have I'm sure received a lot of nasty mail (most of which will be from the type of nuts who write to any 'celebrity') but the other 'incidents' you mention don't amount to much. TB and ex-pal did it just the once? I think so, and they were condemned for it at the time as you know.

oh good.  so you think that this is wrong.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 07:32:41 PM
oh good.  so you think that this is wrong.

Most people at the time thought it was wrong, and said so.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 07:39:26 PM
Most people at the time thought it was wrong, and said so.

Can we go on saying that this is wrong?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 07:42:31 PM
Then I would think about it if I were you.  Amaral's opinions seem to have carried some weight.  But English Courts can hardly put paid to him.

Why should I think about it? What has Amaral got to do with trolling? Does he post on the internet?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 08:04:01 PM
Why should I think about it? What has Amaral got to do with trolling? Does he post on the internet?

So you don't really care.  Fine by me.  Fortunately no one will ever take you seriously, because you apparently have nothing to say of any importance.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2015, 08:42:39 PM
So you don't really care.  Fine by me.  Fortunately no one will ever take you seriously, because you apparently have nothing to say of any importance.

Could you tell me who 'no one' includes? All members of the forum? If so, you could be mistaken imo.  8(>((
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 01, 2015, 09:05:14 PM
They have I'm sure received a lot of nasty mail (most of which will be from the type of nuts who write to any 'celebrity') but the other 'incidents' you mention don't amount to much. TB and ex-pal did it just the once? I think so, and they were condemned for it at the time as you know.
So are you saying that Spivey's 11 month hate campaign against the Rigbys was more serious than the 8 year long campaign against the McCanns which has been carried out by numerous individuals?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 01, 2015, 09:18:26 PM
Maybe they did and the police weren't interested.  IMO, the police are very reluctant and / or slow to act in many of these cases of harassment.

Bennett and his cohorts post leaflets to the McCann's  neighbours detailing alleged crimes perpetratated by the McCanns. Are you really telling us that the police wouldn't see this as harassment ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 01, 2015, 09:29:09 PM
So are you saying that Spivey's 11 month hate campaign against the Rigbys was more serious than the 8 year long campaign against the McCanns which has been carried out by numerous individuals?

Without detracting from the unnecessary added pain and the fears for their personal safety which Lee Rigby's family could well have done without ... he was one idiot acting over a few months.

I think the eight year hounding of the McCann family by packs as well as individuals, in which this man was also a participant, is something entirely outwith the realms of common decency.

The worst thing about it is that this man had no regard for Lee Rigby's son; just as Madeleine's siblings are collateral damage in the campaign against their parents. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
So are you saying that Spivey's 11 month hate campaign against the Rigbys was more serious than the 8 year long campaign against the McCanns which has been carried out by numerous individuals?

If we were all rounded up and sent to the gulag there would still be discussion of the case online, and they would still be libelled. Discussion is inevitable in a case of this nature, considering the evidence in the public domain (or lack of it). And so is libel.

But discussion is not physical harassment, and Spivey has just been convicted for harassment? So it clearly was more serious.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Posting comments on the internet discussing any case cannot be construed as harrassment, thats plain ridiculous, get real AJ and off your horse

And if you have a major problem with a handful of nutters, then why not take it up with them instead of flooding this forum with your complaints



PS Sorry Lyall, seem to have cross  posted
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Could you tell me who 'no one' includes? All members of the forum? If so, you could be mistaken imo.  8(>((

you are absolutely right, of course.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 01, 2015, 09:44:59 PM
Can we go on saying that this is wrong?

You mean,  like a "stucky and the stuck- record mantra ? " 

That sort of thing?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 01, 2015, 09:49:05 PM
You mean,  like a "stucky and the stuck- record mantra ? " 

That sort of thing?

t is wrong, from whichever side you are coming.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
You mean,  like a "stucky and the stuck- record mantra ? " 

That sort of thing?

Me thinks that sounds familiar.  8)--))

Then they are none so blind as those who use a mantra themselves and won't admit it. 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 01, 2015, 10:03:45 PM
t is wrong, from whichever side you are coming.

Of course. Goes with saying. Even the fanatics wouldn't dream of doing anything so stupid.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 01, 2015, 10:20:42 PM
You mean,  like a "stucky and the stuck- record mantra ? " 

That sort of thing?
Are we talking about the words that Angelo used to describe stephen?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 01, 2015, 10:24:59 PM
Are we talking about the words that Angelo used to describe stephen?

...........and which no one else has ever trotted out since, of course!

Did you report it and complain, Sadie?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2015, 10:35:03 PM
Are we talking about the words that Angelo used to describe stephen?

Don't worry sadie.

Angelo I believe, has see the light as regards evidence of abduction. 8**8:/:

Then of course I have seen that reference elsewhere by mccann supporters.

The irony being of course, they are ''stucky" in the abduction. 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 12:32:13 AM
Bennett and his cohorts post leaflets to the McCann's  neighbours detailing alleged crimes perpetratated by the McCanns. Are you really telling us that the police wouldn't see this as harassment ?
I don't know - you'd have to ask them that question.  I think it is, I also think a lot of what goes on on the internet could be construed as harassment.  Spivey didn't leaflet Lee Rigby's neighbourhood did he?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 12:33:35 AM
If we were all rounded up and sent to the gulag there would still be discussion of the case online, and they would still be libelled. Discussion is inevitable in a case of this nature, considering the evidence in the public domain (or lack of it). And so is libel.

But discussion is not physical harassment, and Spivey has just been convicted for harassment? So it clearly was more serious.
Why was it?  Are you claiming that details of his crimes have been withheld from the media, and only the less serious stuff published?  That sounds like a conspiracy in itself!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 02, 2015, 12:34:22 AM
...........and which no one else has ever trotted out since, of course!

Did you report it and complain, Sadie?

No because it was a perfect description then.

I am pleased to say, stephen has improved greatly since then and now participates,
.... altho he is still stuck in a rut in a number of ways.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 12:44:02 AM
If we were all rounded up and sent to the gulag there would still be discussion of the case online, and they would still be libelled. Discussion is inevitable in a case of this nature, considering the evidence in the public domain (or lack of it). And so is libel.

But discussion is not physical harassment, and Spivey has just been convicted for harassment? So it clearly was more serious.
PS: it really is very tedious of you to write off an 8 year long orchestrated pressure group campaign against the McCanns as mere "discussion".  Pull the other one, it goes ding-a-ling-a-ling.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 02:00:24 AM
Why was it?  Are you claiming that details of his crimes have been withheld from the media, and only the less serious stuff published?  That sounds like a conspiracy in itself!

Nope. Just saying we don't know everything that was said in the courtroom, which is evidently true. You can't know all the evidence that was heard from the brief media reports.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 02:10:10 AM
PS: it really is very tedious of you to write off an 8 year long orchestrated pressure group campaign against the McCanns as mere "discussion".  Pull the other one, it goes ding-a-ling-a-ling.

If you want to discuss seriously you need to lose the emotion.

It's more tedious for you to continually claim there has been harassment because if you look at comparable cases in other countries you'll see what harassment really means. Nothing similar happened in this case in this country. Fact.

I'm glad it didn't. And so should you be.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 10:43:34 AM
Nope. Just saying we don't know everything that was said in the courtroom, which is evidently true. You can't know all the evidence that was heard from the brief media reports.
I am 100% certain that the worst aspects of Spivey's harrassment have been reported in the papers.  I can think of no reason why, if he had physically harrassed them, this information would have been witheld or overlooked by the media.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 10:45:42 AM
If you want to discuss seriously you need to lose the emotion.

It's more tedious for you to continually claim there has been harassment because if you look at comparable cases in other countries you'll see what harassment really means. Nothing similar happened in this case in this country. Fact.

I'm glad it didn't. And so should you be.
If Spivey is guilty of harrassment then there is no question whatsoever that the McCanns and their family have also been victims of similar harrassment.  No question at all.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 10:49:42 AM
If you want to discuss seriously you need to lose the emotion.

It's more tedious for you to continually claim there has been harassment because if you look at comparable cases in other countries you'll see what harassment really means. Nothing similar happened in this case in this country. Fact.

I'm glad it didn't. And so should you be.
PS: what emotion do you think I am displaying with my post?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 10:55:11 AM
'Everyone should be able to go about their daily lives free from harassment caused by someone deliberately making grossly offensive messages about them on social media' - Jenny Hopkins, chief crown prosecutor for CPS East of England

Ms Hopkins is clearly stating that "grossly offensive messages" on social media causes harrassment to its subjects.  Now tell me that the McCanns are not the subject of "grossly offensive messages" on social media and are therefore not victims of harrassment.  go on, contradict the CCP for CPS East of England.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carana on August 02, 2015, 12:25:28 PM
'Everyone should be able to go about their daily lives free from harassment caused by someone deliberately making grossly offensive messages about them on social media' - Jenny Hopkins, chief crown prosecutor for CPS East of England

Ms Hopkins is clearly stating that "grossly offensive messages" on social media causes harrassment to its subjects.  Now tell me that the McCanns are not the subject of "grossly offensive messages" on social media and are therefore not victims of harrassment.  go on, contradict the CCP for CPS East of England.

'Everyone should be able to go about their daily lives free from harassment caused by someone deliberately making grossly offensive messages about them on social media' - Jenny Hopkins, chief crown prosecutor for CPS East of England

I find that to be reasonable... Does anyone disagree with that on here?

ETA: What constitutes "grossly offensive", though?

And:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/trolling-why-nasty-commenters-take-delight-in-wrecking-your-day-1.2976073
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 02, 2015, 12:30:51 PM
'Everyone should be able to go about their daily lives free from harassment caused by someone deliberately making grossly offensive messages about them on social media' - Jenny Hopkins, chief crown prosecutor for CPS East of England

I find that to be reasonable... Does anyone disagree with that on here?

ETA: What constitutes "grossly offensive", though?

1. I don't disagree.
2. I guess that is subjective unless there is a definition upon which the law relies.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 02:38:42 PM
If someone claimed I was a paedophile and had murdered my child in a masonic ritual I'd be grossly offended.  Amyone else?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 02, 2015, 02:59:53 PM
If someone claimed I was a paedophile and had murdered my child in a masonic ritual I'd be grossly offended.  Amyone else?
Disgusting stuff.

Kates distraught face and slumped figure is the evidence of how upset and offended they were.

Thankfully since SY took over and hope returned, she is looking much better.



I would have fallen completely to pieces with vile accusations like that aimed at me.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 04:22:51 PM
If someone claimed I was a paedophile and had murdered my child in a masonic ritual I'd be grossly offended.  Amyone else?

There's a difference between sporadic, idiotic comments and a sustained campaign of misinformation.

Spivey stood outside the magistrates court and declared "These people don't exist" (about those who had given witness statements against him).

Find a website that has consistently spouted such things about the McCanns and you might have a case.

But all there is to find is random twits on social media and forums.

(I wish those twits would disappear as much as you do - and maybe more - but I don't think even the nuts ever did anything criminal.)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 02, 2015, 04:26:46 PM
There's a difference between sporadic, idiotic comments and a sustained campaign of misinformation.

Spivey stood outside the magistrates court and declared "These people don't exist" (about those who had given witness statements against him).

Find a website that has consistently spouted such things about the McCanns and you might have a case.

But all there is to find is random twits on social media and forums.

      Has your ISP put some kind of filter on what is accessible to you on the WWW??
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 04:31:46 PM
      Has your ISP put some kind of filter on what is accessible to you on the WWW??

 @)(++(* Maybe.

I see deeply distasteful people, and their fantical words. But I don't see anything criminal.

(Libel is another thing entirely.)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 02, 2015, 04:37:35 PM
There's a difference between sporadic, idiotic comments and a sustained campaign of misinformation.

Spivey stood outside the magistrates court and declared "These people don't exist" (about those who had given witness statements against him).

Find a website that has consistently spouted such things about the McCanns and you might have a case.

But all there is to find is random twits on social media and forums.

(I wish those twits would disappear as much as you do - and maybe more - but I don't think even the nuts ever did anything criminal.)

we are seeing a sustained campaign of misinformation on several sites. Fortunately on this site posters who post misinformation will be challenged and forced to admit that things that have been claimed as fact are merely opinion
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 04:37:54 PM
There's a difference between sporadic, idiotic comments and a sustained campaign of misinformation.

Spivey stood outside the magistrates court and declared "These people don't exist" (about those who had given witness statements against him).

Find a website that has consistently spouted such things about the McCanns and you might have a case.

But all there is to find is random twits on social media and forums.

(I wish those twits would disappear as much as you do - and maybe more - but I don't think even the nuts ever did anything criminal.)
I think you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.  FYI:  there are dozens of people who spend a large part of their day, every day actively campaigning against the McCanns.  They can most prominently be seen at work on Twitter and Facebook.  You may think these social media platforms are trivial but they are the same platforms by which Spivey harassed his victims.  There are also numerous blogs, forums and websites dedicated to traducing the McCanns, not on a sporadic basis but on a regular basis.  This is a fact which you were obviously completely ignorant of.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 04:42:58 PM
we are seeing a sustained campaign of misinformation on several sites. Fortunately on this site posters who post misinformation will be challenged and forced to admit that things that have been claimed as fact are merely opinion

On forums/social media you mean I think, not websites?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 02, 2015, 04:55:18 PM
On forums/social media you mean I think, not websites?

I said sites..... Not websites..... Another Chinese whisper
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 04:56:19 PM
I think you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.  FYI:  there are dozens of people who spend a large part of their day, every day actively campaigning against the McCanns.  They can most prominently be seen at work on Twitter and Facebook.  You may think these social media platforms are trivial but they are the same platforms by which Spivey harassed his victims.  There are also numerous blogs, forums and websites dedicated to traducing the McCanns, not on a sporadic basis but on a regular basis.  This is a fact which you were obviously completely ignorant of.

I admit I don't bother following anything said or done on facebook. Life's too short for that.

But the bloggers? "Traducing"? Libelling, perhaps (only experts know exactly what is and what is not libel), but harassing? I don't think so.

There's a difference between opinion - however hostile - and manufacturing evidence, which would definitely qualify as harassment I'd think.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
I admit I don't bother following anything said or done on facebook. Life's too short for that.

But the bloggers? "Traducing"? Libelling, perhaps (only experts know exactly what is and what is not libel), but harassing? I don't think so.

There's a difference between opinion - however hostile - and manufacturing evidence, which would definitely qualify as harassment I'd think.
traduce


/trəˈdjuːs/


verb

gerund or present participle: traducing




speak badly of or tell lies about (someone) so as to damage their reputation.

Lyall, please don't make me send you links.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 02, 2015, 05:03:39 PM
traduce


/trəˈdjuːs/


verb

gerund or present participle: traducing




speak badly of or tell lies about (someone) so as to damage their reputation.

Lyall, please don't make me send you links.

That's libel though, and not criminal.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 02, 2015, 05:06:15 PM
I admit I don't bother following anything said or done on facebook. Life's too short for that.

But the bloggers? "Traducing"? Libelling, perhaps (only experts know exactly what is and what is not libel), but harassing? I don't think so.

There's a difference between opinion - however hostile - and manufacturing evidence, which would definitely qualify as harassment I'd think.

There are many sites where manufactured evididemce is used daily to libel the mccanns
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 02, 2015, 05:32:12 PM
There are many sites where manufactured evididemce is used daily to libel the mccanns
A slight twisting of the facts here, a slight tweaking of what happened there, et voila, a new myth is born.


Over time a myth often becomes a fact in some peoples eyes.   And these people are the ones who are so rigid that they are never prepared to listen and amend their mistaken beliefs.


So damned unfair to The Mccann Family.

Make no bones about it, the whole family is affected ... as is the search for a little missing girl
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 02, 2015, 05:45:11 PM
That's libel though, and not criminal.
I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.  Can you please tell me in what ways you think Spivey's campaign against the Rigby family (one man's 11 month campaign) was significantly worse than the 8 year long campaign by numerous individuals against the McCanns (which has also included physical harassment)?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Anna on August 02, 2015, 11:43:40 PM
Can we please get back on topic now

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 15, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
I think people who indulge themselves in systematic trolling are suffering from a mental illness.

You mean like the examples below Brietta ?



You are making a tit of yourself
You utter chump!!!!
You are stalkers, liars, [ censored word ] & fantasists.
You shitty, beneath contempt people.

This sick creature,
You are SO stupid.
Disgusting retarded behavior
Vile, low creature with totally warped ideas of its own adequacy.

Filthy stalking pervert
Vile demented troll
You can feck off too you retarded pitbull.
You r talking drivel, nasty drivel at that.
Now b....r off confused fool

The lying twats
He's a grade A creep.
Why does anyone gives that pathetic, needy creature the time of day?
Typical fkd up [ censored word ]

Made twats of themselves again!
What a bunch of squabbling twats
Utterly insane and full of stuff they just plucked out of their arses.
Suggest you practice some deep breathing.

You are an idiot
No one believes it you chump, NO ONE!!!
The rotten cow
She's a total, utter hypocrite!!
A stalker & a liar.

More bullshit from the bullshitmeisters.
Do you even know what truth smells like?
You LIED.
The above are all pathetic, squirming fibbers.
I'm.still waiting for the link, idiot child.
Cretins

Lol you have the understanding of a tiny ickle kid...fkn hilarious!
I do wonder abt mental capability of tw@ts who believe shite written on forums.
Sad onanists.
Vindictive s..m.

You are a tw..
Prize chump, sad angry old man.
Needs to spend less time shagging strangers .
Off her sex-obsessed rocker.
And so up her own backside will never admit when wrong.

Not another gun toting, noose waving, [ censored word ] tw..?
Thick as pigshit
That idiot charlatan
Yeah right whatever you say, Captain Fruitloop.

So many clearly deranged, babbling twits
Another of our European friends obsessively frottaging over missing kid.
Science teacher my arse.
Vile gits.
She is INSANE!
Think before u type ffs!

Thick as muck.
Truly s..m of society,
You are just a sad idiot.
He's a disgusting vile slob.

Its hard even to take the piss because they are so stupid they dont know you're doing it.
Dumber & dumber
She evolved from slime, recently.
Just f..k off.

You are a nympho who needs a cold shower
You are on notice now to f..k off and not tweet me again.
She's an obsessed, prurient little no-one,
Stay off my TL you disgusting sex obsessed old hag!

If you dont like being called out as a hypocritical prig who enjoys causing trouble then stay the f..k off my TL
Stop being a tw...
What an appalling, skanky old hypocrite you are.
You are a stinking hypocrite!!!!

This mob are basically fascists.
Paranoid fantasies.
THINK you stupid woman!!!
Idiocy on stilts!!

Dumbass.
Who the f..k are you anyway
ROFL woman, sort yourself out.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
Onanists

You people are deranged & contemptible.
Looking for truth?
Dont make me fkn laugh.
Scrabbling around with one hand down their trousers more like!
Horrible jerks.

Do you know what kind of lowlife s..m that makes you?
Crazy conspiracist arseholes
Sensationalist, privacy-invading shite!
Conspiracy fuckwit central.
You're a bloody loon!

Do your worst you vile cow.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
You are all bent in quite horrible ways.
What do you have to say about that dick?

A sphincter says what?
Nothing you say makes one iota of sense!
You are a time wasting liar.
She is lost in a web of lies, bragging and outright stupidity & cant find her way out.

I actually enjoy taking the piss out of you.
I don't have anything to worry about.
You however have lied, blagged, boasted & fantasized.
Like a blazing turd.

Fantasist & liar
Your train blew up quite some time ago.
You are stuck like a railroaded cow to the front engine :-)

Frankly, you are an idiot.
A paranoid, conspiracy laden fool having trouble with the real world.

No you wierdo, you piss off.
You seem to think this is a playground?
All else is wind & piss.
You insist on engaging with me.
 I suggest if u dont like being shown up as [ censored word ] cow, you f..k off yself!

Such wonderful examples of British education, compassion & intelligence.
She's horrible.
Sort of twisted cow your mother warned you about.
Yuk.

Dont demand anything of me.
It just makes you sound threatening & pathetic.
You daft bint!!!
What a washed up nohoper you are!
You poor sad sucker.
Illiterate syphilitic outpouring
Does he make you moist?

What a DICK.
The total arse
Absolute wobbling tit.
Your blog is just one chunder amongst a sea of puke.
Feck off & examine yr black heart.

You appalling examples of twisted humanity.
I cant be arsed with stupid people, sorry.
All else is made up shite by a known psychotic.
FACT

What an idiot you are.
As if I give a damn for [ censored word ] & liars.
You have a little bit of shit in your eye which distorts everything you see.
As if you give a shit you wicked, deluded alcohol-soaked prune.

Jeez but you are damnably stupid.
Excruciatingly so.
You wouldnt know a fact if it slapped your ugly mug
Dont tweet me.
I wont have my TL sullied with your foul persona.

I would have told her to f..k right off
She's an idiot.
Google her.
Paranoid tw..
She's a friggin joke.
Google daft mare.

Bumbling stupidity.
Rabid paranoia
That appalling drunken bitch.
What a bunch of fkn hypocrites!
Only sickfux like YOU say such lying crap.

You are proving a tiresome tw..
And he is clearly bonkers.
You are complete prick
How the f..k would I know?
You people all talk bollocks.
Dumbass!!

What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!
Sob your black hearts out suckers!

What the f..k did you think you were doing?
Yeah sure. By showing you up as a tw..!
Lol thick as pigshoite.

You continue to display the same characteristics which led me to deduce you are retarded.
No I just told you that you are remedial-class stupid.
I speak as I find.
If you dont like it, block me.
Simples (like you).

Stupid.
Dim.
Intellectually challenged.
Also emotionally retarded too.
Suck it up!!

Read it again dickhead.
You can use your own tweets as cat litter.
I am not here to pretend sainthood, unlike other ridiculous lying bitches.
With his odious mother poisoning his little mind with her vitriolic bile.
The lying s...k
 
Tossers, morons, same difference.
Their entire belief system and feelings of self worth are bound up with hating.
We have lives, you just have a simulacrum of an existence, stewing in bile."

All posted on Twitter in a three month period by an ardent McCann supporter called urcrazy.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 15, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
You mean like the examples below Brietta ?



You are making a tit of yourself
You utter chump!!!!
You are stalkers, liars, [ censored word ] & fantasists.
You shitty, beneath contempt people.

This sick creature,
You are SO stupid.
Disgusting retarded behavior
Vile, low creature with totally warped ideas of its own adequacy.

Filthy stalking pervert
Vile demented troll
You can feck off too you retarded pitbull.
You r talking drivel, nasty drivel at that.
Now b....r off confused fool

The lying twats
He's a grade A creep.
Why does anyone gives that pathetic, needy creature the time of day?
Typical fkd up [ censored word ]

Made twats of themselves again!
What a bunch of squabbling twats
Utterly insane and full of stuff they just plucked out of their arses.
Suggest you practice some deep breathing.

You are an idiot
No one believes it you chump, NO ONE!!!
The rotten cow
She's a total, utter hypocrite!!
A stalker & a liar.

More bullshit from the bullshitmeisters.
Do you even know what truth smells like?
You LIED.
The above are all pathetic, squirming fibbers.
I'm.still waiting for the link, idiot child.
Cretins

Lol you have the understanding of a tiny ickle kid...fkn hilarious!
I do wonder abt mental capability of tw@ts who believe shite written on forums.
Sad onanists.
Vindictive s..m.

You are a tw..
Prize chump, sad angry old man.
Needs to spend less time shagging strangers .
Off her sex-obsessed rocker.
And so up her own backside will never admit when wrong.

Not another gun toting, noose waving, [ censored word ] tw..?
Thick as pigshit
That idiot charlatan
Yeah right whatever you say, Captain Fruitloop.

So many clearly deranged, babbling twits
Another of our European friends obsessively frottaging over missing kid.
Science teacher my arse.
Vile gits.
She is INSANE!
Think before u type ffs!

Thick as muck.
Truly s..m of society,
You are just a sad idiot.
He's a disgusting vile slob.

Its hard even to take the piss because they are so stupid they dont know you're doing it.
Dumber & dumber
She evolved from slime, recently.
Just f..k off.

You are a nympho who needs a cold shower
You are on notice now to f..k off and not tweet me again.
She's an obsessed, prurient little no-one,
Stay off my TL you disgusting sex obsessed old hag!

If you dont like being called out as a hypocritical prig who enjoys causing trouble then stay the f..k off my TL
Stop being a tw...
What an appalling, skanky old hypocrite you are.
You are a stinking hypocrite!!!!

This mob are basically fascists.
Paranoid fantasies.
THINK you stupid woman!!!
Idiocy on stilts!!

Dumbass.
Who the f..k are you anyway
ROFL woman, sort yourself out.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
Onanists

You people are deranged & contemptible.
Looking for truth?
Dont make me fkn laugh.
Scrabbling around with one hand down their trousers more like!
Horrible jerks.

Do you know what kind of lowlife s..m that makes you?
Crazy conspiracist arseholes
Sensationalist, privacy-invading shite!
Conspiracy fuckwit central.
You're a bloody loon!

Do your worst you vile cow.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
You are all bent in quite horrible ways.
What do you have to say about that dick?

A sphincter says what?
Nothing you say makes one iota of sense!
You are a time wasting liar.
She is lost in a web of lies, bragging and outright stupidity & cant find her way out.

I actually enjoy taking the piss out of you.
I don't have anything to worry about.
You however have lied, blagged, boasted & fantasized.
Like a blazing turd.

Fantasist & liar
Your train blew up quite some time ago.
You are stuck like a railroaded cow to the front engine :-)

Frankly, you are an idiot.
A paranoid, conspiracy laden fool having trouble with the real world.

No you wierdo, you piss off.
You seem to think this is a playground?
All else is wind & piss.
You insist on engaging with me.
 I suggest if u dont like being shown up as [ censored word ] cow, you f..k off yself!

Such wonderful examples of British education, compassion & intelligence.
She's horrible.
Sort of twisted cow your mother warned you about.
Yuk.

Dont demand anything of me.
It just makes you sound threatening & pathetic.
You daft bint!!!
What a washed up nohoper you are!
You poor sad sucker.
Illiterate syphilitic outpouring
Does he make you moist?

What a DICK.
The total arse
Absolute wobbling tit.
Your blog is just one chunder amongst a sea of puke.
Feck off & examine yr black heart.

You appalling examples of twisted humanity.
I cant be arsed with stupid people, sorry.
All else is made up shite by a known psychotic.
FACT

What an idiot you are.
As if I give a damn for [ censored word ] & liars.
You have a little bit of shit in your eye which distorts everything you see.
As if you give a shit you wicked, deluded alcohol-soaked prune.

Jeez but you are damnably stupid.
Excruciatingly so.
You wouldnt know a fact if it slapped your ugly mug
Dont tweet me.
I wont have my TL sullied with your foul persona.

I would have told her to f..k right off
She's an idiot.
Google her.
Paranoid tw..
She's a friggin joke.
Google daft mare.

Bumbling stupidity.
Rabid paranoia
That appalling drunken bitch.
What a bunch of fkn hypocrites!
Only sickfux like YOU say such lying crap.

You are proving a tiresome tw..
And he is clearly bonkers.
You are complete prick
How the f..k would I know?
You people all talk bollocks.
Dumbass!!

What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!
Sob your black hearts out suckers!

What the f..k did you think you were doing?
Yeah sure. By showing you up as a tw..!
Lol thick as pigshoite.

You continue to display the same characteristics which led me to deduce you are retarded.
No I just told you that you are remedial-class stupid.
I speak as I find.
If you dont like it, block me.
Simples (like you).

Stupid.
Dim.
Intellectually challenged.
Also emotionally retarded too.
Suck it up!!

Read it again dickhead.
You can use your own tweets as cat litter.
I am not here to pretend sainthood, unlike other ridiculous lying bitches.
With his odious mother poisoning his little mind with her vitriolic bile.
The lying s...k
 
Tossers, morons, same difference.
Their entire belief system and feelings of self worth are bound up with hating.
We have lives, you just have a simulacrum of an existence, stewing in bile."

All posted on Twitter in a three month period by an ardent McCann supporter called urcrazy.

OMG! That is seriously scary.

 %56&
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 15, 2015, 11:16:47 PM
Yeah, we can all play that game.  Anyone want to read one week's worth of tweets by Rothley Pillow?  They'd make URCrazy's tweets look like the writings of the Dalai Lama by comparison.  Twitter is for twats, end of. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 15, 2015, 11:17:23 PM
You mean like the examples below Brietta ?



You are making a tit of yourself
You utter chump!!!!
You are stalkers, liars, [ censored word ] & fantasists.
You shitty, beneath contempt people.

This sick creature,
You are SO stupid.
Disgusting retarded behavior
Vile, low creature with totally warped ideas of its own adequacy.

Filthy stalking pervert
Vile demented troll
You can feck off too you retarded pitbull.
You r talking drivel, nasty drivel at that.
Now b....r off confused fool

The lying twats
He's a grade A creep.
Why does anyone gives that pathetic, needy creature the time of day?
Typical fkd up [ censored word ]

Made twats of themselves again!
What a bunch of squabbling twats
Utterly insane and full of stuff they just plucked out of their arses.
Suggest you practice some deep breathing.

You are an idiot
No one believes it you chump, NO ONE!!!
The rotten cow
She's a total, utter hypocrite!!
A stalker & a liar.

More bullshit from the bullshitmeisters.
Do you even know what truth smells like?
You LIED.
The above are all pathetic, squirming fibbers.
I'm.still waiting for the link, idiot child.
Cretins

Lol you have the understanding of a tiny ickle kid...fkn hilarious!
I do wonder abt mental capability of tw@ts who believe shite written on forums.
Sad onanists.
Vindictive s..m.

You are a tw..
Prize chump, sad angry old man.
Needs to spend less time shagging strangers .
Off her sex-obsessed rocker.
And so up her own backside will never admit when wrong.

Not another gun toting, noose waving, [ censored word ] tw..?
Thick as pigshit
That idiot charlatan
Yeah right whatever you say, Captain Fruitloop.

So many clearly deranged, babbling twits
Another of our European friends obsessively frottaging over missing kid.
Science teacher my arse.
Vile gits.
She is INSANE!
Think before u type ffs!

Thick as muck.
Truly s..m of society,
You are just a sad idiot.
He's a disgusting vile slob.

Its hard even to take the piss because they are so stupid they dont know you're doing it.
Dumber & dumber
She evolved from slime, recently.
Just f..k off.

You are a nympho who needs a cold shower
You are on notice now to f..k off and not tweet me again.
She's an obsessed, prurient little no-one,
Stay off my TL you disgusting sex obsessed old hag!

If you dont like being called out as a hypocritical prig who enjoys causing trouble then stay the f..k off my TL
Stop being a tw...
What an appalling, skanky old hypocrite you are.
You are a stinking hypocrite!!!!

This mob are basically fascists.
Paranoid fantasies.
THINK you stupid woman!!!
Idiocy on stilts!!

Dumbass.
Who the f..k are you anyway
ROFL woman, sort yourself out.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
Onanists

You people are deranged & contemptible.
Looking for truth?
Dont make me fkn laugh.
Scrabbling around with one hand down their trousers more like!
Horrible jerks.

Do you know what kind of lowlife s..m that makes you?
Crazy conspiracist arseholes
Sensationalist, privacy-invading shite!
Conspiracy fuckwit central.
You're a bloody loon!

Do your worst you vile cow.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
You are all bent in quite horrible ways.
What do you have to say about that dick?

A sphincter says what?
Nothing you say makes one iota of sense!
You are a time wasting liar.
She is lost in a web of lies, bragging and outright stupidity & cant find her way out.

I actually enjoy taking the piss out of you.
I don't have anything to worry about.
You however have lied, blagged, boasted & fantasized.
Like a blazing turd.

Fantasist & liar
Your train blew up quite some time ago.
You are stuck like a railroaded cow to the front engine :-)

Frankly, you are an idiot.
A paranoid, conspiracy laden fool having trouble with the real world.

No you wierdo, you piss off.
You seem to think this is a playground?
All else is wind & piss.
You insist on engaging with me.
 I suggest if u dont like being shown up as [ censored word ] cow, you f..k off yself!

Such wonderful examples of British education, compassion & intelligence.
She's horrible.
Sort of twisted cow your mother warned you about.
Yuk.

Dont demand anything of me.
It just makes you sound threatening & pathetic.
You daft bint!!!
What a washed up nohoper you are!
You poor sad sucker.
Illiterate syphilitic outpouring
Does he make you moist?

What a DICK.
The total arse
Absolute wobbling tit.
Your blog is just one chunder amongst a sea of puke.
Feck off & examine yr black heart.

You appalling examples of twisted humanity.
I cant be arsed with stupid people, sorry.
All else is made up shite by a known psychotic.
FACT

What an idiot you are.
As if I give a damn for [ censored word ] & liars.
You have a little bit of shit in your eye which distorts everything you see.
As if you give a shit you wicked, deluded alcohol-soaked prune.

Jeez but you are damnably stupid.
Excruciatingly so.
You wouldnt know a fact if it slapped your ugly mug
Dont tweet me.
I wont have my TL sullied with your foul persona.

I would have told her to f..k right off
She's an idiot.
Google her.
Paranoid tw..
She's a friggin joke.
Google daft mare.

Bumbling stupidity.
Rabid paranoia
That appalling drunken bitch.
What a bunch of fkn hypocrites!
Only sickfux like YOU say such lying crap.

You are proving a tiresome tw..
And he is clearly bonkers.
You are complete prick
How the f..k would I know?
You people all talk bollocks.
Dumbass!!

What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!
Sob your black hearts out suckers!

What the f..k did you think you were doing?
Yeah sure. By showing you up as a tw..!
Lol thick as pigshoite.

You continue to display the same characteristics which led me to deduce you are retarded.
No I just told you that you are remedial-class stupid.
I speak as I find.
If you dont like it, block me.
Simples (like you).

Stupid.
Dim.
Intellectually challenged.
Also emotionally retarded too.
Suck it up!!

Read it again dickhead.
You can use your own tweets as cat litter.
I am not here to pretend sainthood, unlike other ridiculous lying bitches.
With his odious mother poisoning his little mind with her vitriolic bile.
The lying s...k
 
Tossers, morons, same difference.
Their entire belief system and feelings of self worth are bound up with hating.
We have lives, you just have a simulacrum of an existence, stewing in bile."

All posted on Twitter in a three month period by an ardent McCann supporter called urcrazy.

how does someone come up with a list like this..it must have took a lot of time.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 15, 2015, 11:32:49 PM
Perhaps Faithlilly could supply the dates of the three month period on twitter that these Crazy tweets occurred?  It would be interesting to see them in context, i.e: what may have provoked such startling and colourful outbursts (if anything at all), or were these incandescently furious and foul tweets aimed at perfectly ordinary, nice tweeters who were "only asking questions" in the most respectful and reasonable way... &%+((£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 16, 2015, 01:24:21 AM
Sigh ... wasn't going to bother with this one ... but it is worth remembering exactly why some internet trolls are receiving jail sentences.

There seems to be a set pathway of insult for "vile trolls" to follow and more and more as they begin to make regular but long overdue appearances in the courts ... they are beginning to be a recognisable stereotype and it is not an edifying sight.
The pattern seems to be along the lines of ...

**Snip

Milligan was arrested and charged on January 21 last year and “sobbed uncontrollably” when interviewed by police, telling officers: “I’m not the type of person that would rape someone.

“I know it’s wrong.

“I’m not on Facebook anymore, I’ve shut it down.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vile-troll-jailed-offensive-facebook-6253016?


Maybe he should have shut down his Facebook page some time ago ... it would have saved him a lot of unnecessary grief.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 16, 2015, 01:38:27 AM
Sigh ... wasn't going to bother with this one ... but it is worth remembering exactly why some internet trolls are receiving jail sentences.

There seems to be a set pathway of insult for "vile trolls" to follow and more and more as they begin to make regular but long overdue appearances in the courts ... they are beginning to be a recognisable stereotype and it is not an edifying sight.
The pattern seems to be along the lines of ...
  • Mental health issues of one kind or another ~ or at least that is the defence they rely on in court
  • Racial abuse
  • Threats of a sexual nature
  • Threats of violence
  • "Vile outbursts against murdered and missing children ~ in this case Mikaeel Kular and unsurprisingly, Madeleine McCann

**Snip

Milligan was arrested and charged on January 21 last year and “sobbed uncontrollably” when interviewed by police, telling officers: “I’m not the type of person that would rape someone.

“I know it’s wrong.

“I’m not on Facebook anymore, I’ve shut it down.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vile-troll-jailed-offensive-facebook-6253016?


Maybe he should have shut down his Facebook page some time ago ... it would have saved him a lot of unnecessary grief.

Sigh but you did

Glad to know you condemn urcrazys disgusting trolling comments, and hope they get a jail sentence, good job lass

 8((()*/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2015, 01:54:49 AM
Sigh but you did

Glad to know you condemn urcrazys disgusting trolling comments, and hope they get a jail sentence, good job lass

 8((()*/
That's not written by URCRAZY and I suspect you know who wrote it.

Can you tell us?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 16, 2015, 01:58:08 AM
That's not written by URCRAZY and I suspect you know who wrote it.

Can you tell us?

Nothing to do with me or anyone I know or have heard of  at all in any way shape or form so your suspicions are in your imagination and no where else, fact!

My bedtime  now dear!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 16, 2015, 09:31:05 AM
You mean like the examples below Brietta ?



You are making a tit of yourself
You utter chump!!!!
You are stalkers, liars, [ censored word ] & fantasists.
You shitty, beneath contempt people.

This sick creature,
You are SO stupid.
Disgusting retarded behavior
Vile, low creature with totally warped ideas of its own adequacy.

Filthy stalking pervert
Vile demented troll
You can feck off too you retarded pitbull.
You r talking drivel, nasty drivel at that.
Now b....r off confused fool

The lying twats
He's a grade A creep.
Why does anyone gives that pathetic, needy creature the time of day?
Typical fkd up [ censored word ]

Made twats of themselves again!
What a bunch of squabbling twats
Utterly insane and full of stuff they just plucked out of their arses.
Suggest you practice some deep breathing.

You are an idiot
No one believes it you chump, NO ONE!!!
The rotten cow
She's a total, utter hypocrite!!
A stalker & a liar.

More bullshit from the bullshitmeisters.
Do you even know what truth smells like?
You LIED.
The above are all pathetic, squirming fibbers.
I'm.still waiting for the link, idiot child.
Cretins

Lol you have the understanding of a tiny ickle kid...fkn hilarious!
I do wonder abt mental capability of tw@ts who believe shite written on forums.
Sad onanists.
Vindictive s..m.

You are a tw..
Prize chump, sad angry old man.
Needs to spend less time shagging strangers .
Off her sex-obsessed rocker.
And so up her own backside will never admit when wrong.

Not another gun toting, noose waving, [ censored word ] tw..?
Thick as pigshit
That idiot charlatan
Yeah right whatever you say, Captain Fruitloop.

So many clearly deranged, babbling twits
Another of our European friends obsessively frottaging over missing kid.
Science teacher my arse.
Vile gits.
She is INSANE!
Think before u type ffs!

Thick as muck.
Truly s..m of society,
You are just a sad idiot.
He's a disgusting vile slob.

Its hard even to take the piss because they are so stupid they dont know you're doing it.
Dumber & dumber
She evolved from slime, recently.
Just f..k off.

You are a nympho who needs a cold shower
You are on notice now to f..k off and not tweet me again.
She's an obsessed, prurient little no-one,
Stay off my TL you disgusting sex obsessed old hag!

If you dont like being called out as a hypocritical prig who enjoys causing trouble then stay the f..k off my TL
Stop being a tw...
What an appalling, skanky old hypocrite you are.
You are a stinking hypocrite!!!!

This mob are basically fascists.
Paranoid fantasies.
THINK you stupid woman!!!
Idiocy on stilts!!

Dumbass.
Who the f..k are you anyway
ROFL woman, sort yourself out.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
Onanists

You people are deranged & contemptible.
Looking for truth?
Dont make me fkn laugh.
Scrabbling around with one hand down their trousers more like!
Horrible jerks.

Do you know what kind of lowlife s..m that makes you?
Crazy conspiracist arseholes
Sensationalist, privacy-invading shite!
Conspiracy fuckwit central.
You're a bloody loon!

Do your worst you vile cow.
You are a disgusting piece of s..m.
You are all bent in quite horrible ways.
What do you have to say about that dick?

A sphincter says what?
Nothing you say makes one iota of sense!
You are a time wasting liar.
She is lost in a web of lies, bragging and outright stupidity & cant find her way out.

I actually enjoy taking the piss out of you.
I don't have anything to worry about.
You however have lied, blagged, boasted & fantasized.
Like a blazing turd.

Fantasist & liar
Your train blew up quite some time ago.
You are stuck like a railroaded cow to the front engine :-)

Frankly, you are an idiot.
A paranoid, conspiracy laden fool having trouble with the real world.

No you wierdo, you piss off.
You seem to think this is a playground?
All else is wind & piss.
You insist on engaging with me.
 I suggest if u dont like being shown up as [ censored word ] cow, you f..k off yself!

Such wonderful examples of British education, compassion & intelligence.
She's horrible.
Sort of twisted cow your mother warned you about.
Yuk.

Dont demand anything of me.
It just makes you sound threatening & pathetic.
You daft bint!!!
What a washed up nohoper you are!
You poor sad sucker.
Illiterate syphilitic outpouring
Does he make you moist?

What a DICK.
The total arse
Absolute wobbling tit.
Your blog is just one chunder amongst a sea of puke.
Feck off & examine yr black heart.

You appalling examples of twisted humanity.
I cant be arsed with stupid people, sorry.
All else is made up shite by a known psychotic.
FACT

What an idiot you are.
As if I give a damn for [ censored word ] & liars.
You have a little bit of shit in your eye which distorts everything you see.
As if you give a shit you wicked, deluded alcohol-soaked prune.

Jeez but you are damnably stupid.
Excruciatingly so.
You wouldnt know a fact if it slapped your ugly mug
Dont tweet me.
I wont have my TL sullied with your foul persona.

I would have told her to f..k right off
She's an idiot.
Google her.
Paranoid tw..
She's a friggin joke.
Google daft mare.

Bumbling stupidity.
Rabid paranoia
That appalling drunken bitch.
What a bunch of fkn hypocrites!
Only sickfux like YOU say such lying crap.

You are proving a tiresome tw..
And he is clearly bonkers.
You are complete prick
How the f..k would I know?
You people all talk bollocks.
Dumbass!!

What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!
Sob your black hearts out suckers!

What the f..k did you think you were doing?
Yeah sure. By showing you up as a tw..!
Lol thick as pigshoite.

You continue to display the same characteristics which led me to deduce you are retarded.
No I just told you that you are remedial-class stupid.
I speak as I find.
If you dont like it, block me.
Simples (like you).

Stupid.
Dim.
Intellectually challenged.
Also emotionally retarded too.
Suck it up!!

Read it again dickhead.
You can use your own tweets as cat litter.
I am not here to pretend sainthood, unlike other ridiculous lying bitches.
With his odious mother poisoning his little mind with her vitriolic bile.
The lying s...k
 
Tossers, morons, same difference.
Their entire belief system and feelings of self worth are bound up with hating.
We have lives, you just have a simulacrum of an existence, stewing in bile."

All posted on Twitter in a three month period by an ardent McCann supporter called urcrazy.


Completely and utterly meaningless unless you quote the tweets being replied to - which I suspect are probably worthy of the comments - which is why they have not been included imo.

Since when have comments like these below (of which there are many in your list ) been regarded as vile troll posts?
 
"What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!"

I've noticed it's common practice amongst some sceptics to take a few words - or a sentence out of context in order to change the meaning, or to put a different slant on what was actually said -  when it was in context  - and then present it as 'proof'. 

Your list is just another example of that IMO.

People who choose to hurl abuse at oneanother on Twitter is not 'trolling'  IMO - and they can get on with it - it's their own choice.

It is not in the same league as openly threatening, libelling and abusing people like the McCann family  - and others who have similarly  been made targets of trolls. 

IIRC Sarah Payne was recently forced to close her Twitter account because of vile trolls.  Those are the people who need to be prosecuted IMO.




Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 10:39:52 AM
Yes, I'd certainly like to see all those tweets properly cut and pasted over here so we can see exactly who they were addressed to.  I'd also like to read all of URCrazy's tweets in which he threatens to out someone, accuses them of criminal activity and threatens to send their employer these supposed revelations in order to get them sacked.  Can we have those ones too please?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 16, 2015, 10:50:34 AM

Completely and utterly meaningless unless you quote the tweets being replied to - which I suspect are probably worthy of the comments - which is why they have not been included imo.

Since when have comments like these below (of which there are many in your list ) been regarded as vile troll posts?
 
"What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!"

I've noticed it's common practice amongst some sceptics to take a few words - or a sentence out of context in order to change the meaning, or to put a different slant on what was actually said -  when it was in context  - and then present it as 'proof'. 

Your list is just another example of that IMO.

People who choose to hurl abuse at oneanother on Twitter is not 'trolling'  IMO - and they can get on with it - it's their own choice.

It is not in the same league as openly threatening, libelling and abusing people like the McCann family  - and others who have similarly  been made targets of trolls. 

IIRC Sarah Payne was recently forced to close her Twitter account because of vile trolls.  Those are the people who need to be prosecuted IMO.

Look on stm for that mccann 'supporter' as well.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2015, 11:32:22 AM
Perhaps Faithlilly could supply the dates of the three month period on twitter that these Crazy tweets occurred?  It would be interesting to see them in context, i.e: what may have provoked such startling and colourful outbursts (if anything at all), or were these incandescently furious and foul tweets aimed at perfectly ordinary, nice tweeters who were "only asking questions" in the most respectful and reasonable way... &%+((£

October to December 2013 I believe
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2015, 11:38:15 AM

Completely and utterly meaningless unless you quote the tweets being replied to - which I suspect are probably worthy of the comments - which is why they have not been included imo.

Since when have comments like these below (of which there are many in your list ) been regarded as vile troll posts?
 
"What are you talking about?
Do you even know?
Ridiculous fools
You live in a fantasy world.
It's pathetic!"

I've noticed it's common practice amongst some sceptics to take a few words - or a sentence out of context in order to change the meaning, or to put a different slant on what was actually said -  when it was in context  - and then present it as 'proof'. 

Your list is just another example of that IMO.

People who choose to hurl abuse at oneanother on Twitter is not 'trolling'  IMO - and they can get on with it - it's their own choice.

It is not in the same league as openly threatening, libelling and abusing people like the McCann family  - and others who have similarly  been made targets of trolls. 

IIRC Sarah Payne was recently forced to close her Twitter account because of vile trolls.  Those are the people who need to be prosecuted IMO.

The context is unimportant. To take the moral high ground you unedd to be very sure you yourself have never abused, libelled or threatened anyone no matter what the provocation. Do you think urcrazy can claim this ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 16, 2015, 11:44:19 AM
I see that my post of last night was removed.  No reason  ... just removed and nothing wrong with the post.


I have known URCRAZY for over 5 yeaqrs and I have NEVER seen her post anything like that.  She would neither use the language in that filthy list nor say the dirty things in it.

URCRAZY is a very accomplished and thinking poster .... and can beat most on the other side easily.



IMO, those awful posts have been invented and ascribed to her name to try to discredit and and destroy her... by the "Dirty Games" group.

The Dirty Games group = If you cant beat them in decent argument, then destroy them by any dirty means possible.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 16, 2015, 11:59:03 AM
I see that my post of last night was removed.  No reason  ... just removed and nothing wrong with the post.


I have known URCRAZY for over 5 yeaqrs and I have NEVER seen her post anything like that.  She would neither use the language in that filthy list nor say the dirty things in it.

URCRAZY is a very accomplished and thinking poster .... and can beat most on the other side easily.



IMO, those awful posts have been invented and ascribed to her name to try to discredit and and destroy her... by the "Dirty Games" group.

The Dirty Games group = If you cant beat them in decent argument, then destroy them by any dirty means possible.

urcrazy lives up to her name.


Definitely a member of the cadburys chocolate bar club,   @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
The context is unimportant. To take the moral high ground you unedd to be very sure you yourself have never abused, libelled or threatened anyone no matter what the provocation. Do you think urcrazy can claim this ?
HAS she / he claimed it?  Whilst you're at it, who has he / she threatened, libelled abused etc?  I see no evidence of libel or threats and we have no idea who is being abused - can you help?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2015, 12:19:52 PM
HAS she / he claimed it?  Whilst you're at it, who has he / she threatened, libelled abused etc?  I see no evidence of libel or threats and we have no idea who is being abused - can you help?

So you accept the examples posted are abusive.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 12:27:15 PM
So you accept the examples posted are abusive.
of course they are, now kindly answer my questions please. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2015, 12:28:54 PM
Whatever the context this person is clearly not someone who takes part in rational discussion. Why anyone would choose to condone or find excuses for such posts is beyond my understanding, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 16, 2015, 12:37:29 PM
Whatever the context this person is clearly not someone who takes part in rational discussion. Why anyone would choose to condone or find excuses for such posts is beyond my understanding, I'm afraid.

Just look on stm.

She's not the only one either. 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 12:39:21 PM
Whatever the context this person is clearly not someone who takes part in rational discussion. Why anyone would choose to condone or find excuses for such posts is beyond my understanding, I'm afraid.
Exactly how I feel about Brenda Leyland's tweets, how about you?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 16, 2015, 03:06:39 PM
of course they are, now kindly answer my questions please.

So you will agree that supporters taking the moral high ground when it comes to debate is questionable to say the least ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2015, 03:10:04 PM
Exactly how I feel about Brenda Leyland's tweets, how about you?

Haven't read them, I'm afraid and if they're the same I don't want to. What is the point of tweets like that? They add nothing whatsoever to the debate..
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 16, 2015, 03:18:53 PM
Exactly how I feel about Brenda Leyland's tweets, how about you?
Some of Brenda Leyland's comments were beyond the pale as were some of the tw*ts allegedly from urcrazy.
So how much are you prepared to wriggle and squirm to avoid outright condemnation of both ?

"When you're a Jet you're Jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dyin' day" ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 03:24:33 PM
Some of Brenda Leyland's comments were beyond the pale as were some of the tw*ts allegedly from urcrazy.
So how much are you prepared to wriggle and squirm to avoid outright condemnation of both ?

"When you're a Jet you're Jet all the way from your first cigarette to your last dyin' day" ?
Just as soon as Faithlilly has provided the information I have asked her for - who was being abused and what the libel consisted of such as unfounded accusations of criminal activity, also the threats made to livelihoods by involving employers, etc.  In the meantime if you read back you will see that I have already acknowledged that URC's tweets were abusive and foul, will that do ya for now, big boy? 8**8:/:
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 03:27:43 PM
Haven't read them, I'm afraid and if they're the same I don't want to. What is the point of tweets like that? They add nothing whatsoever to the debate..
I agree totally.  However the person who has seen fit to reproduce reams of URCrazy tweets as if they're somehow typical of a McCann supporter's modus operandi is also a staunch defender of Brenda Leyland who was equally abusive on twitter and more threatening IMO, which is somewhat hypocritical behaviour -  defending one tweeter, but tut-tutting over t'other, wouldn't you say??
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2015, 03:50:49 PM
I have always said there's nutters on both sides. i avoid both, as I've no interest in trading insults with anyone.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 04:00:56 PM
An interesting, some might say provocative, exchange on twitter,  a random exchange but fairly typical of the kind of abuse that gets doled out, and this exchange wasn't even provoked by those being insulted and wished ill!


Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01  · 2 Jan 2013 
I see premiere #McCanns CULT terrorist @greenink211 has been missing since October! Who knows, what with all these ABUSE arrests :)


Weiss ‏@w_nicht  · 2 Jan 2013 
@spudgun01 Now, there is a thought :)

Denise Thomson
‏@Syn0nymph   @w_nicht @spudgun01 Funnily enough @urcrazytoo has also been missing since Oct...

Mike Spudgun ‏@spudgun01  · 2 Jan 2013 
@Syn0nymph @w_nicht @urcrazytoo Illness??? Nothing TRIVIAL, I hope :)

Denise Thomson ‏@Syn0nymph  · 2 Jan 2013 
@spudgun01 @w_nicht @urcrazytoo Can't think of a nicer guy to have necrotising fasciitis :D


"Spudgun" Mike Hardy is a well known "sceptic" blogger who once claimed on his Facebook page that he'd enjoy watching a gorilla (that he's closely acquainted with) anally raping UR Crazy, and who also threatened to snap the neck of "Greenink", the other McCann supporter he mentions above. 

Internet Troll, or thoroughly decent chap? You decide! 

We could of course go on like this all day - I'll see your Spudgun and raise you an Alifab, or whatever....  @)(++(*



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 16, 2015, 04:22:21 PM
Just as soon as Faithlilly has provided the information I have asked her for - who was being abused and what the libel consisted of such as unfounded accusations of criminal activity, also the threats made to livelihoods by involving employers, etc.  In the meantime if you read back you will see that I have already acknowledged that URC's tweets were abusive and foul, will that do ya for now, big boy? 8**8:/:

Ah! still the wriggling and the caveats.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 16, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
Ah! still the wriggling and the caveats.
And still the ad homs, disguised as "respect for right conduct".
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 19, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Don't know why Mumsnet have been targeted by by this idiot, but he seems to have it down to a fine art. 

Not content with  ~ On 11 August, Mumsnet was the target of an online attack – a denial of service (DDoS) attack – and was forced offline by hackers. ~ s\he managed to have a Swat team sent to a family home in the middle of the night.



Trolls Sent Armed Police To Women’s Homes After Attacking Parenting Site Mumsnet
Why has a blog about parenting become the target for online harassers?

posted on Aug. 19, 2015, at 1:27 p.m.

Rossalyn Warren
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Justine Roberts, the founder of Mumsnet – the UK’s largest forum for parents – says armed police were called to her home following a hoax call made by an online troll.

Officers were also sent to the home of a second Mumsnet user after a call was made claiming a gunman had been spotted near their properties.

The hoax call was a “swat attack”, in which police storm the victim’s home following a false claim of a crime taking place in or nearby the property.
Swat attacks, which are more commonly seen in the US, and are often done to intimidate and threaten intended victims.
The Metropolitan police have yet to comment on the hoax calls.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/trolls-sent-armed-police-to-womens-homes-after-attacking-a-p
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 19, 2015, 04:52:23 PM
Has Chris Spivey been sentenced yet?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 19, 2015, 05:37:07 PM
And still the ad homs, disguised as "respect for right conduct".

I would prefer that but am in a minority of one it would seem so I am content to play by the ground rules laid down by others.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 19, 2015, 05:44:12 PM
I would prefer that but am in a minority of one it would seem so I am content to play by the ground rules laid down by others.
What a sheep.  YWouldn't it be better to be true to yourself and your own rules of conduct, thereby maintaining the moral high ground at all times and the right to look down on us trolls and vagabonds from your lofty perch rather than scrabbling around in the dirt with us all? *&*%£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Anna on August 19, 2015, 06:01:47 PM
Don't know why Mumsnet have been targeted by by this idiot, but he seems to have it down to a fine art. 

Not content with  ~ On 11 August, Mumsnet was the target of an online attack – a denial of service (DDoS) attack – and was forced offline by hackers. ~ s\he managed to have a Swat team sent to a family home in the middle of the night.



Trolls Sent Armed Police To Women’s Homes After Attacking Parenting Site Mumsnet
Why has a blog about parenting become the target for online harassers?

posted on Aug. 19, 2015, at 1:27 p.m.

Rossalyn Warren
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Justine Roberts, the founder of Mumsnet – the UK’s largest forum for parents – says armed police were called to her home following a hoax call made by an online troll.

Officers were also sent to the home of a second Mumsnet user after a call was made claiming a gunman had been spotted near their properties.

The hoax call was a “swat attack”, in which police storm the victim’s home following a false claim of a crime taking place in or nearby the property.
Swat attacks, which are more commonly seen in the US, and are often done to intimidate and threaten intended victims.
The Metropolitan police have yet to comment on the hoax calls.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/trolls-sent-armed-police-to-womens-homes-after-attacking-a-p


How dreadful is that? Is it even safe to be on the internet, nowadays?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 06:43:14 PM
Has Chris Spivey been sentenced yet?
Nope. Next Thursday, the newspapers said.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 19, 2015, 06:49:55 PM
Nope. Next Thursday, the newspapers said.
Thank you.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 19, 2015, 08:41:00 PM
Don't know why Mumsnet have been targeted by by this idiot, but he seems to have it down to a fine art. 

Not content with  ~ On 11 August, Mumsnet was the target of an online attack – a denial of service (DDoS) attack – and was forced offline by hackers. ~ s\he managed to have a Swat team sent to a family home in the middle of the night.



Trolls Sent Armed Police To Women’s Homes After Attacking Parenting Site Mumsnet
Why has a blog about parenting become the target for online harassers?

posted on Aug. 19, 2015, at 1:27 p.m.

Rossalyn Warren
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Justine Roberts, the founder of Mumsnet – the UK’s largest forum for parents – says armed police were called to her home following a hoax call made by an online troll.

Officers were also sent to the home of a second Mumsnet user after a call was made claiming a gunman had been spotted near their properties.

The hoax call was a “swat attack”, in which police storm the victim’s home following a false claim of a crime taking place in or nearby the property.
Swat attacks, which are more commonly seen in the US, and are often done to intimidate and threaten intended victims.
The Metropolitan police have yet to comment on the hoax calls.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/trolls-sent-armed-police-to-womens-homes-after-attacking-a-p


Oddly. 11th August is the same date on which one Mr Birch also withdrew from the fray due to "threats on his life". (I thought he'd been Carter-Rucked after all the recent shenanigans on his site)
Something is going down, as they say.







Digging for Madeleine McCann

August 11 at 12:48pm ·

.

Given the recent threats on my life, I have no option but to withdraw from the Madeleine McCann case. I will now focus my efforts on my property company. I'd like to thank all those people who supported my campaign to get the Murat driveway dug up. I wish you all well. I am sure justice will prevail in the future and the truth will be revealed. Yours sincerely Stephen D. Birch
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 08:50:07 PM

Oddly. 11th August is the same date on which one Mr Birch also withdrew from the fray due to "threats on his life". (I thought he'd been Carter-Rucked after all the recent shenanigans on his site)
Something is going down, as they say.







Digging for Madeleine McCann

August 11 at 12:48pm ·

.

Given the recent threats on my life, I have no option but to withdraw from the Madeleine McCann case. I will now focus my efforts on my property company. I'd like to thank all those people who supported my campaign to get the Murat driveway dug up. I wish you all well. I am sure justice will prevail in the future and the truth will be revealed. Yours sincerely Stephen D. Birch

I don't believe it.  What a cop out.  Of a case entirely centred in Portugal and Britain someone in South Africa is threatening his life?  Or would that be several people?

Carter Ruck more like.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 09:22:21 PM
We'll miss him &%&£(+
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 09:30:27 PM
We'll miss him &%&£(+

I shall have to think about that.  He did give us all a few laughs.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 09:35:08 PM
I shall have to think about that.  He did give us all a few laughs.
&%+((£ I was on a certain forum when he first turned up there. He was soon sussed.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 09:43:12 PM
&%+((£ I was on a certain forum when he first turned up there. He was soon sussed.

Isn't it nice when we can all agree on something.  The man is a complete pillock.  Outrageous and probably barking.  But there is no way he would have given up because of a few death threats.
Nope.  He was Carter Rucked.  Probably with threats of Extradition.  Although I'd be hard pushed to decide on what grounds.  Unless it was to Portugal.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
Isn't it nice when we can all agree on something.  The man is a complete pillock.  Outrageous and probably barking.  But there is no way he would have given up because of a few death threats.
Nope.  He was Carter Rucked.  Probably with threats of Extradition.  Although I'd be hard pushed to decide on what grounds.  Unless it was to Portugal.

How can he be 'Carter Rucked' in South Africa? He's probably just hoaxed again - it is what he does best.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 09:52:27 PM
How can he be 'Carter Rucked' in South Africa? He's probably just hoaxed again - it is what he does best.

I'm really not sure.  But I can't see him giving up that easily.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 09:56:55 PM
I'm really not sure.  But I can't see him giving up that easily.

Nah, he'll probably be back unfortunately.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 19, 2015, 10:07:21 PM
Isn't it nice when we can all agree on something.  The man is a complete pillock.  Outrageous and probably barking.  But there is no way he would have given up because of a few death threats.
Nope.  He was Carter Rucked.  Probably with threats of Extradition.  Although I'd be hard pushed to decide on what grounds.  Unless it was to Portugal.

You cant extradite people for libel or being bonkers or a pain in the arris.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 10:13:55 PM
You cant extradite people for libel or being bonkers or a pain in the arris.

I think he's done a bit more than that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 19, 2015, 10:15:55 PM
What is an internet troll....
What's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 10:24:31 PM
What is an internet troll....
What's the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter

One's being armed by us and the other one isn't %£&)**#
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2015, 11:02:38 PM
You cant extradite people for libel or being bonkers or a pain in the arris.

Luckily for Birch !
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 19, 2015, 11:09:36 PM
Such a pity.  I was enjoying the conversation about Birch as an Internet Troll.

He's history now (.... maybe &%+((£)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 19, 2015, 11:10:42 PM
Luckily for Birch !

Yes, whatever he has done Ive never heard of any criminal charges flouted around that would warrant extradition I hope Murat sues him though,then again if he did might lend credence to his ramblings so probably leave the idiot to his own devices
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 19, 2015, 11:14:35 PM
He's history now (.... maybe &%+((£)

Anyone maliciously using a child's profile to incite & inflict distress on other children deserves to receive everything nasty the local witchdoctor can administer. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2015, 11:16:39 PM
Yes, whatever he has done Ive never heard of any criminal charges flouted around that would warrant extradition I hope Murat sues him though,then again if he did might lend credence to his ramblings so probably leave the idiot to his own devices

He's a joke mercury and as you say best left to his own devices.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 19, 2015, 11:22:24 PM
He's history now (.... maybe &%+((£)

Too fond of the limelight if you ask me.  And I don't believe he has had death threats.

But he did commit trespass in Portugal, by his own admission, and he appears to have used England in the process of transporting his machine.  He has also committed Libel against several people.  And threatened to approach The Twins at their school, if not actually done so.  There has got to be a punishable offence in there somewhere.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 04:10:06 PM
For the forum members who have likened sceptics to the Yorkshire Ripper simply because of their shared opinion of the McCann's guilt please do not take the following 'facts' literally !

https://markfiddaman.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/6-links-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 04:49:59 PM
For the forum members who have likened sceptics to the Yorkshire Ripper simply because of their shared opinion of the McCann's guilt please do not take the following 'facts' literally !

https://markfiddaman.wordpress.com/2015/08/21/6-links-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-want-you-to-know-about/
Never mind peas, what are Corbyn's views on Israel and why does he appear to lend support to those who would like to see it wiped off the face of the Earth?? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 05:01:43 PM
Never mind peas, what are Corbyn's views on Israel and why does he appear to lend support to those who would like to see it wiped off the face of the Earth??

Perhaps you can show me where he 'appears' to lend support to those who would like the annihilation of Israel ( without quoting a Mail/Telegraph article ) ? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 05:07:04 PM
Perhaps you can show me where he 'appears' to lend support to those who would like the annihilation of Israel ( without quoting a Mail/Telegraph article ) ?
You tell me what sources I'm allowed then.  I know you prefer anonymous online blogs for your info, so which ones specifically have your approval?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
You tell me what sources I'm allowed then.  I know you prefer anonymous online blogs for your info, so which ones specifically have your approval?

Any credible source without a right wing agenda will do.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 05:55:22 PM
Any credible source without a right wing agenda will do.
What about the Jewish Chronicle?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 05:59:46 PM
What about the Jewish Chronicle?

What about it ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 06:00:32 PM
What about it ?
Is it a "Faithlilly approved" source or not?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 06:09:46 PM
Is it a "Faithlilly approved" source or not?

You mean this Jewish Chronicle ?

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/jewish-chronicle-corbyn-spin-busted.html
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 06:13:24 PM
You mean this Jewish Chronicle ?

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/jewish-chronicle-corbyn-spin-busted.html
True to form, you prefer your information from an anonymous blogger than from a well-respected newspaper.  So, we can add the JC to your blacklist.  OK, seeing as how you prefer bloggers, what about this leftie's views, all backed up with links?  Will that suffice, or is he too Jewish for you?

http://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/an-open-letter-to-jeremy-corbyn/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 06:36:20 PM
True to form, you prefer your information from an anonymous blogger than from a well-respected newspaper.  So, we can add the JC to your blacklist.  OK, seeing as how you prefer bloggers, what about this leftie's views, all backed up with links?  Will that suffice, or is he too Jewish for you?

http://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/an-open-letter-to-jeremy-corbyn/

1 blogger and I'll raise you a letter supporting Corbyn signed by 50 of the British Jewish community's most famous members.

Too Jewish ? It was you who mentioned anti-sematism.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 06:44:21 PM
1 blogger and I'll raise you a letter supporting Corbyn signed by 50 of the British Jewish community's most famous members.

Too Jewish ? It was you who mentioned anti-sematism.
The word is anti-Semitism.  You asked earlier for evidence that Corbyn tends to lend his support to those who would like the annihilation of the state of Israel.  Would you not count Raed Salah as one of those individuals?  He IS a supporter of Hamas btw.  As for your 50 pro-Corbyn Jews, I can counter with an opinion poll that shows somewhere in the region of 80% of British Jews being concerned about the prospect of Corbyn's election as party leader, will that do?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 06:51:39 PM
The word is anti-Semitism.  You asked earlier for evidence that Corbyn tends to lend his support to those who would like the annihilation of the state of Israel.  Would you not count Raed Salah as one of those individuals?  He IS a supporter of Hamas btw.  As for your 50 pro-Corbyn Jews, I can counter with an opinion poll that shows somewhere in the region of 80% of British Jews being concerned about the prospect of Corbyn's election as party leader, will that do?

An opinion poll ? What like the one that suggested there was a distinct possibility that Labour would win the last election ? That kind of poll ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 06:54:30 PM
An opinion poll ? What like the one that suggested there was a distinct possibility that Labour would win the last election ? That kind of poll ?
You are deflecting.  Here are the facts.

Corbyn supports Raed Salah, thinks he's an honourable man, can't wait to have tea with him on the terrace blah blah blah.
Raed Salah is a supporter of Hamas and has a conviction for Blood Libel.
Hamas support the complete destruction of the state of Israel.
I have proved my point that Corbyn lends his support to individuals who would like to see an end to Israel.
The end.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 06:57:15 PM
You are deflecting.  Here are the facts.

Corbyn supports Raed Salah, thinks he's an honourable man, can't wait to have tea with him on the terrace blah blah blah.
Raed Salah is a supporter of Hamas and has a conviction for Blood Libel.
Hamas support the complete destruction of the state of Israel.
I have proved my point that Corbyn lends his support to individuals who would like to see an end to Israel.
The end.

 @)(++(* Which takes us neatly back to my original link !
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 07:02:41 PM
@)(++(* Which takes us neatly back to my original link !
No it does not.  Your link was idiotic, facile, etc.  I have made a serious point, proven with links and you are unable to counter it.  I take it that you either didn't know or didn't care that your hero JC was such a fan of an anti-Semite.  Never mind, I doubt Corbyn will last long in the job, so the 80% of British Jews who are worried about him probably don't need to worry too much.  Sense will prevail in the end.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 07:20:51 PM
No it does not.  Your link was idiotic, facile, etc.  I have made a serious point, proven with links and you are unable to counter it.  I take it that you either didn't know or didn't care that your hero JC was such a fan of an anti-Semite.  Never mind, I doubt Corbyn will last long in the job, so the 80% of British Jews who are worried about him probably don't need to worry too much.  Sense will prevail in the end.

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1440082260.html

Corbyn could have defended himself more robustly on the 7th question, about Raed Saleh.

As the Asa Winstanley piece demonstrates, the conviction which relates specifically to "blood libel" (under the charge of incitement to racism) only came into force last November, after Saleh's previous acquittal (in 2013) on this charge was overturned. (And an appeal is pending)

Therefore there had been no "blood libel"/incitement to racism conviction when Corbyn described Saleh as a "very honoured citizen" in 2011. (That is if I'm right in assuming this is when Corbyn made the remark).

This is the same tactic used by Cathy Newman in the Channel 4 news interview discussed here recently. However Newman is more culpable, because the Jewish Chronicle's question suggests, but does not directly claim, that the "blood libel"/incitement to racism conviction was prior to Corbyn's remark.

In her interview, Newman first implies (at 5:12) that the conviction occurred prior to Corbyn's meeting with Saleh ('So you regret also I assume describing Raed Salah as a very honoured citizen given that he was convicted of the anti-Semitic slander that Jews use the blood of children to make their bread?'¯).

Then (at 6:26), once more in the context of discussion about Corbyn & Saleh's 2011 meeting, she explicitly states that Saleh 'had been convicted'¯. That is untrue.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1440082260.html

Corbyn could have defended himself more robustly on the 7th question, about Raed Saleh.

As the Asa Winstanley piece demonstrates, the conviction which relates specifically to "blood libel" (under the charge of incitement to racism) only came into force last November, after Saleh's previous acquittal (in 2013) on this charge was overturned. (And an appeal is pending)

Therefore there had been no "blood libel"/incitement to racism conviction when Corbyn described Saleh as a "very honoured citizen" in 2011. (That is if I'm right in assuming this is when Corbyn made the remark).

This is the same tactic used by Cathy Newman in the Channel 4 news interview discussed here recently. However Newman is more culpable, because the Jewish Chronicle's question suggests, but does not directly claim, that the "blood libel"/incitement to racism conviction was prior to Corbyn's remark.

In her interview, Newman first implies (at 5:12) that the conviction occurred prior to Corbyn's meeting with Saleh ('So you regret also I assume describing Raed Salah as a very honoured citizen given that he was convicted of the anti-Semitic slander that Jews use the blood of children to make their bread?'¯).

Then (at 6:26), once more in the context of discussion about Corbyn & Saleh's 2011 meeting, she explicitly states that Saleh 'had been convicted'¯. That is untrue.
You're rapidly becoming a right little JC apologist aren't you Faith?  Let's have a link to Corbyn denouncing Raed Salah's blood libel then.  This is reminding me so much of online arguments I used to have with Nick Griffin apologists a few years back, it's uncanny! @)(++(*
PS: Imagine for one moment that Gerry McCann denied publicly that he had ever met or associated with Jimmy Savile, and then someone dug up a photo of the pair of them shaking hands, now in your world that would make McCann a liar wouldn't it?  Now what's your excuse for Jez denying ever having had anything to do with Dyab Abou Jahjah?  I'm sure you've got a pat response so let's be having it!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 22, 2015, 07:45:19 PM
No it does not.  Your link was idiotic, facile, etc.  I have made a serious point, proven with links and you are unable to counter it.  I take it that you either didn't know or didn't care that your hero JC was such a fan of an anti-Semite.  Never mind, I doubt Corbyn will last long in the job, so the 80% of British Jews who are worried about him probably don't need to worry too much.  Sense will prevail in the end.

Classic personal attack of using the phrase 'anti-semite'.

Completely nauseous.

So are Jewish people who protest against the Israeli state anti-semitic  ?

Do you support the behaviour of the Israeli state in persecuting the Palestinians ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 22, 2015, 07:47:34 PM
You're rapidly becoming a right little JC apologist aren't you Faith?  Let's have a link to Corbyn denouncing Raed Salah's blood libel then.  This is reminding me so much of online arguments I used to have with Nick Griffin apologists a few years back, it's uncanny! @)(++(*
PS: Imagine for one moment that Gerry McCann denied publicly that he had ever met or associated with Jimmy Savile, and then someone dug up a photo of the pair of them shaking hands, now in your world that would make McCann a liar wouldn't it?  Now what's your excuse for Jez denying ever having had anything to do with Dyab Abou Jahjah?  I'm sure you've got a pat response so let's be having it!

As you obviously didn't read the link posted by my good self properly here are the answers you require, straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142656/jeremy-corbyn-responds-jc’s-seven-questions

Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn has responded to the seven questions the JC posed last week about his links with Holocaust deniers and antisemites.
The JC’s coverage prompted a widespread debate about the company Mr Corbyn keeps.
Here are his answers, sent from his office, in full:
Q1 Did you donate, as alleged by its founder, to Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR), an antisemitic group run by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen?
Jeremy has no recollection whatsoever of making a donation at all to Deir Yassin Remembered.
Q2 Have you, as Mr Eisen claims, regularly attended DYR’s annual conference?
No, he does not regularly attend DYR’s annual conference.
Jeremy believes that Mr Eisen’s position on the Holocaust is wrong and reprehensible. Holocaust denial is vile and wrong: the Holocaust was the most vile part of our history. The Jewish people killed by the Nazi Holocaust were the people who suffered the most in the 20th century.
He did attend DYR events in the past but no longer does so. DYR was founded in the late 1990s. It is worth noting that in the early stages of DYR’s existence it attracted broad support and only later did Mr Eisen’s views on the Holocaust become apparent.
Jeremy is deeply moved by the massacre of Deir Yassin and feels it should be remembered, however.
Last week&#039;s JC front page with the seven questions
Last week's JC front page with the seven questions
Q3 Why have you accepted an invitation to appear at a conference on 22nd August alongside Carlos Latuff, the antisemitic cartoonist?
Jeremy Corbyn is not speaking at this event.
Q4 Why did you write to the Church of England authorities to defend Rev Stephen Sizer, a vicar banned from social media because of his habit of posting antisemitic conspiracy theories, telling them that Rev Sizer was “under attack” because he had “dared to speak out over Zionism”?
You are conflating two issues. Mr Corbyn wrote to the Church authorities two years before the 9/11 ‘conspiracy’ post about a different matter altogether. At this point Mr Sizer was involved in a dispute about his involvement in Middle East political issues and Mr Corbyn supported his right to do so. It was much later that Mr Sizer was found to have posted the link to the 9/11 article and then disciplined by the Church. he made no intervention on his behalf or in his support on that question. Neither was he asked to.
Mr Corbyn wholly rejects the conspiracy theory and ‘truther’ theories about the terrorist attacks on September 11th 2001, which are distressing to the families and friends of those lost and hurt on that day and very often involve antisemitic views to which he has - and always will be - opposed.
Q5 Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?
The term ‘friends’ was used purely as diplomatic language in the context of dialogue, not an endorsement of a particular set of views. In the difficult quest of establishing a peace, it is common for the term “friend” to be used as part of the process. “Friend” in this case becomes a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue between disparate groups rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views.
Jeremy has met many people with whom he profoundly disagrees, in order to try to promote a peace process. He has supported and continues to support peace and reconciliation processes in South Africa, Latin and Central America, Ireland and of course in the Middle East. He believes it is necessary to speak to people with whom there is disagreement – merely talking to people who already agree won't bring about a settlement.
Q6 Why have you consistently failed to condemn the antisemitic posters and banners that dominate the annual Al-Quds Day rally, sponsored by the Stop The War Coalition, which you chair?
Jeremy unequivocally, unreservedly and absolutely opposes and condemns all antisemitic language, whether on banners and posters or anywhere else.
Q7 Why did you describe Raed Salah, a man convicted of the blood libel, as an ‘honoured citizen’?
The blood libel is one of the most unpleasant anti-Semitic slurs. Jeremy wholly rejects and condemns the blood libel against the Jewish people.
The language used by Jeremy was merely in a diplomatic context – a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views. The context was the ongoing case involving Raed Salah’s presence in the UK: he had been due to come to the UK to address MPs and others as a prominent representative of Palestinian citizens of Israel – he had been three times elected Mayor of Umm al-Fahm. He travelled to and entered the UK in the normal way, as he had done a number of times before. Teresa May sanctioned his arrest and detention. His arrest was the subject of considerable controversy, and was objected to by Jews for Justice for Palestinians amongst others: his appeal against the attempt to deport him succeeded on all grounds.
In addition a spokesperson for Mr Corbyn responded to a blog by former Tory MP Louise Mensch which claimed that he had links to former Hizbollah fighter Dyou Abou Jahjah:
"This is an attempt to Jeremy smear by association. The views expressed here are abhorrent. If they are indeed those of Dyou Abou Jahjah there is no suggestion he has said them in Jeremy's hearing. During the course of his work to forward peace processes between disparate groups Jeremy has met many people with views he finds reprehensible. But he believes in determined dialogue and persistent diplomacy as a means to bring about peace whether between neighbours, between peoples or between states. He is a prominent campaigner for human rights, quite without malice. He does not have an antisemitic bone in his body."
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
As you obviously didn't read the link posted by my good self properly here are the answers you require, straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142656/jeremy-corbyn-responds-jc’s-seven-questions

Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn has responded to the seven questions the JC posed last week about his links with Holocaust deniers and antisemites.
The JC’s coverage prompted a widespread debate about the company Mr Corbyn keeps.
Here are his answers, sent from his office, in full:
Q1 Did you donate, as alleged by its founder, to Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR), an antisemitic group run by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen?
Jeremy has no recollection whatsoever of making a donation at all to Deir Yassin Remembered.
Q2 Have you, as Mr Eisen claims, regularly attended DYR’s annual conference?
No, he does not regularly attend DYR’s annual conference.
Jeremy believes that Mr Eisen’s position on the Holocaust is wrong and reprehensible. Holocaust denial is vile and wrong: the Holocaust was the most vile part of our history. The Jewish people killed by the Nazi Holocaust were the people who suffered the most in the 20th century.
He did attend DYR events in the past but no longer does so. DYR was founded in the late 1990s. It is worth noting that in the early stages of DYR’s existence it attracted broad support and only later did Mr Eisen’s views on the Holocaust become apparent.
Jeremy is deeply moved by the massacre of Deir Yassin and feels it should be remembered, however.
Last week&#039;s JC front page with the seven questions
Last week's JC front page with the seven questions
Q3 Why have you accepted an invitation to appear at a conference on 22nd August alongside Carlos Latuff, the antisemitic cartoonist?
Jeremy Corbyn is not speaking at this event.
Q4 Why did you write to the Church of England authorities to defend Rev Stephen Sizer, a vicar banned from social media because of his habit of posting antisemitic conspiracy theories, telling them that Rev Sizer was “under attack” because he had “dared to speak out over Zionism”?
You are conflating two issues. Mr Corbyn wrote to the Church authorities two years before the 9/11 ‘conspiracy’ post about a different matter altogether. At this point Mr Sizer was involved in a dispute about his involvement in Middle East political issues and Mr Corbyn supported his right to do so. It was much later that Mr Sizer was found to have posted the link to the 9/11 article and then disciplined by the Church. he made no intervention on his behalf or in his support on that question. Neither was he asked to.
Mr Corbyn wholly rejects the conspiracy theory and ‘truther’ theories about the terrorist attacks on September 11th 2001, which are distressing to the families and friends of those lost and hurt on that day and very often involve antisemitic views to which he has - and always will be - opposed.
Q5 Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?
The term ‘friends’ was used purely as diplomatic language in the context of dialogue, not an endorsement of a particular set of views. In the difficult quest of establishing a peace, it is common for the term “friend” to be used as part of the process. “Friend” in this case becomes a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue between disparate groups rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views.
Jeremy has met many people with whom he profoundly disagrees, in order to try to promote a peace process. He has supported and continues to support peace and reconciliation processes in South Africa, Latin and Central America, Ireland and of course in the Middle East. He believes it is necessary to speak to people with whom there is disagreement – merely talking to people who already agree won't bring about a settlement.
Q6 Why have you consistently failed to condemn the antisemitic posters and banners that dominate the annual Al-Quds Day rally, sponsored by the Stop The War Coalition, which you chair?
Jeremy unequivocally, unreservedly and absolutely opposes and condemns all antisemitic language, whether on banners and posters or anywhere else.
Q7 Why did you describe Raed Salah, a man convicted of the blood libel, as an ‘honoured citizen’?
The blood libel is one of the most unpleasant anti-Semitic slurs. Jeremy wholly rejects and condemns the blood libel against the Jewish people.
The language used by Jeremy was merely in a diplomatic context – a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views. The context was the ongoing case involving Raed Salah’s presence in the UK: he had been due to come to the UK to address MPs and others as a prominent representative of Palestinian citizens of Israel – he had been three times elected Mayor of Umm al-Fahm. He travelled to and entered the UK in the normal way, as he had done a number of times before. Teresa May sanctioned his arrest and detention. His arrest was the subject of considerable controversy, and was objected to by Jews for Justice for Palestinians amongst others: his appeal against the attempt to deport him succeeded on all grounds.
In addition a spokesperson for Mr Corbyn responded to a blog by former Tory MP Louise Mensch which claimed that he had links to former Hizbollah fighter Dyou Abou Jahjah:
"This is an attempt to Jeremy smear by association. The views expressed here are abhorrent. If they are indeed those of Dyou Abou Jahjah there is no suggestion he has said them in Jeremy's hearing. During the course of his work to forward peace processes between disparate groups Jeremy has met many people with views he finds reprehensible. But he believes in determined dialogue and persistent diplomacy as a means to bring about peace whether between neighbours, between peoples or between states. He is a prominent campaigner for human rights, quite without malice. He does not have an antisemitic bone in his body."
Who is Jez's spin doctor?

ETA when I clck on the link above it taked me to the Jewish Chronicle which you were rubbishing earlier, and the first story is about the poll I mentioned about 7 out of 10 British Jews being concerned about JC's probable election as Labour leader.... &%+((£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 10:58:36 PM
I prefer to judge a man by his actions rather than mealy mouthed excuses and epithets hastily cobbled together by an anonymous spin doctor, but that's just me.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 11:50:59 PM
Classic personal attack of using the phrase 'anti-semite'.

Completely nauseous.

So are Jewish people who protest against the Israeli state anti-semitic  ?

Do you support the behaviour of the Israeli state in persecuting the Palestinians ?
Anti-semite is an accurate term for someone who claims that Jews mix the blood of children in their bread wouldn't you say? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 22, 2015, 11:52:47 PM
Stephen finds me nauseous for pointing out the fact that someone convicted of blood libel is anti-semitic.  It's a crazy old mixed-up world and no mistake!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 12:00:05 AM
Who is Jez's spin doctor?

ETA when I clck on the link above it taked me to the Jewish Chronicle which you were rubbishing earlier, and the first story is about the poll I mentioned about 7 out of 10 British Jews being concerned about JC's probable election as Labour leader.... &%+((£

The article doesn't state if the poll was conducted before or after JC answered the Jewish Chronicle's questions and I see almost as many of the respondents said they voted conservative in the last election as 'are concerned' by JC's alleged comments. Coincidence ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 12:00:49 AM
I prefer to judge a man by his actions rather than mealy mouthed excuses and epithets hastily cobbled together by an anonymous spin doctor, but that's just me.

*Irony Klaxon*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 23, 2015, 12:03:17 AM
As you obviously didn't read the link posted by my good self properly here are the answers you require, straight from the horse's mouth.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142656/jeremy-corbyn-responds-jc’s-seven-questions

Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn has responded to the seven questions the JC posed last week about his links with Holocaust deniers and antisemites.
The JC’s coverage prompted a widespread debate about the company Mr Corbyn keeps.
Here are his answers, sent from his office, in full:
Q1 Did you donate, as alleged by its founder, to Deir Yassin Remembered (DYR), an antisemitic group run by Holocaust denier Paul Eisen?
Jeremy has no recollection whatsoever of making a donation at all to Deir Yassin Remembered.
Q2 Have you, as Mr Eisen claims, regularly attended DYR’s annual conference?
No, he does not regularly attend DYR’s annual conference.
Jeremy believes that Mr Eisen’s position on the Holocaust is wrong and reprehensible. Holocaust denial is vile and wrong: the Holocaust was the most vile part of our history. The Jewish people killed by the Nazi Holocaust were the people who suffered the most in the 20th century.
He did attend DYR events in the past but no longer does so. DYR was founded in the late 1990s. It is worth noting that in the early stages of DYR’s existence it attracted broad support and only later did Mr Eisen’s views on the Holocaust become apparent.
Jeremy is deeply moved by the massacre of Deir Yassin and feels it should be remembered, however.
Last week&#039;s JC front page with the seven questions
Last week's JC front page with the seven questions
Q3 Why have you accepted an invitation to appear at a conference on 22nd August alongside Carlos Latuff, the antisemitic cartoonist?
Jeremy Corbyn is not speaking at this event.
Q4 Why did you write to the Church of England authorities to defend Rev Stephen Sizer, a vicar banned from social media because of his habit of posting antisemitic conspiracy theories, telling them that Rev Sizer was “under attack” because he had “dared to speak out over Zionism”?
You are conflating two issues. Mr Corbyn wrote to the Church authorities two years before the 9/11 ‘conspiracy’ post about a different matter altogether. At this point Mr Sizer was involved in a dispute about his involvement in Middle East political issues and Mr Corbyn supported his right to do so. It was much later that Mr Sizer was found to have posted the link to the 9/11 article and then disciplined by the Church. he made no intervention on his behalf or in his support on that question. Neither was he asked to.
Mr Corbyn wholly rejects the conspiracy theory and ‘truther’ theories about the terrorist attacks on September 11th 2001, which are distressing to the families and friends of those lost and hurt on that day and very often involve antisemitic views to which he has - and always will be - opposed.
Q5 Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?
The term ‘friends’ was used purely as diplomatic language in the context of dialogue, not an endorsement of a particular set of views. In the difficult quest of establishing a peace, it is common for the term “friend” to be used as part of the process. “Friend” in this case becomes a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue between disparate groups rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views.
Jeremy has met many people with whom he profoundly disagrees, in order to try to promote a peace process. He has supported and continues to support peace and reconciliation processes in South Africa, Latin and Central America, Ireland and of course in the Middle East. He believes it is necessary to speak to people with whom there is disagreement – merely talking to people who already agree won't bring about a settlement.
Q6 Why have you consistently failed to condemn the antisemitic posters and banners that dominate the annual Al-Quds Day rally, sponsored by the Stop The War Coalition, which you chair?
Jeremy unequivocally, unreservedly and absolutely opposes and condemns all antisemitic language, whether on banners and posters or anywhere else.
Q7 Why did you describe Raed Salah, a man convicted of the blood libel, as an ‘honoured citizen’?
The blood libel is one of the most unpleasant anti-Semitic slurs. Jeremy wholly rejects and condemns the blood libel against the Jewish people.
The language used by Jeremy was merely in a diplomatic context – a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views. The context was the ongoing case involving Raed Salah’s presence in the UK: he had been due to come to the UK to address MPs and others as a prominent representative of Palestinian citizens of Israel – he had been three times elected Mayor of Umm al-Fahm. He travelled to and entered the UK in the normal way, as he had done a number of times before. Teresa May sanctioned his arrest and detention. His arrest was the subject of considerable controversy, and was objected to by Jews for Justice for Palestinians amongst others: his appeal against the attempt to deport him succeeded on all grounds.
In addition a spokesperson for Mr Corbyn responded to a blog by former Tory MP Louise Mensch which claimed that he had links to former Hizbollah fighter Dyou Abou Jahjah:
"This is an attempt to Jeremy smear by association. The views expressed here are abhorrent. If they are indeed those of Dyou Abou Jahjah there is no suggestion he has said them in Jeremy's hearing. During the course of his work to forward peace processes between disparate groups Jeremy has met many people with views he finds reprehensible. But he believes in determined dialogue and persistent diplomacy as a means to bring about peace whether between neighbours, between peoples or between states. He is a prominent campaigner for human rights, quite without malice. He does not have an antisemitic bone in his body."

Gawd, what's all this about?   A Party Political Broadcast?

Is it on topic, in any way or form ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 12:06:10 AM
Stephen finds me nauseous for pointing out the fact that someone convicted of blood libel is anti-semitic.  It's a crazy old mixed-up world and no mistake!

Perhaps he would find you a little less nauseous if you gave him a straight answer to his straight questions ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 12:09:09 AM
*Irony Klaxon*
yes, it is hugely ironic that a "sceptic" such as yourself should unthinkingly and unquestioningly swallow the bullshit peddled by Jez's "office".  That article you posted came across as defensive, shifty and totally unconvincing but you fell for it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 12:11:24 AM
Perhaps he would find you a little less nauseous if you gave him a straight answer to his straight questions ?
Stephen had not engaged with me at any point in this discussion before finding my use of the word anti-semitic to describe an anti-semite as "nauseous".  What word would you feel accurately described someone who claims Jews use the blood of children in their bread? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 12:31:45 AM
yes, it is hugely ironic that a "sceptic" such as yourself should unthinkingly and unquestioningly swallow the bullshit peddled by Jez's "office".  That article you posted came across as defensive, shifty and totally unconvincing but you fell for it.

You really are the MSM's dream consumer Alfie.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/20/jeremy-corbyn-and-antisemitism-claims
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 12:35:06 AM
Stephen had not engaged with me at any point in this discussion before finding my use of the word anti-semitic to describe an anti-semite as "nauseous".  What word would you feel accurately described someone who claims Jews use the blood of children in their bread?

Perhaps before asking questions you'll answer Stephen's below ?


So are Jewish people who protest against the Israeli state anti-semitic  ?

Do you support the behaviour of the Israeli state in persecuting the Palestinians ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 12:13:28 PM
You really are the MSM's dream consumer Alfie.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/20/jeremy-corbyn-and-antisemitism-claims
You don't find it remotely ironic that you have just posted a link to the MSM to try and bolster your point?  I do!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 12:15:49 PM
Perhaps before asking questions you'll answer Stephen's below ?


So are Jewish people who protest against the Israeli state anti-semitic  ?

Do you support the behaviour of the Israeli state in persecuting the Palestinians ?
I have already asked plenty of questions on this thread that YOU have chosen to ignore, so why should I obey your orders now?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 23, 2015, 12:22:59 PM
I have already asked plenty of questions on this thread that YOU have chosen to ignore, so why should I obey your orders now?

Well answer me Alfred.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
I have clearly proven that an individual championed by Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite who supports Hamas.  This in turn provides ample evidence of my earlier claim that Corbyn tends to support individuals that would like to see the destruction of the state of Israel.   the person I am calling an anti-semite is Raed Salah, I have accused no one else of being anti-semitic on this thread - not Jeremy Corbyn and not Jews who protest against the actions of the state of Israel.   

the Middle East debate is not one that can be resolved with a pat "yes / no" response, it's far too complex for that and would require a separate thread for a serious grown-up discussion.  However, I do support the right of Israel to exist and to defend itself from sustained attack, whilst simultaneously sympathising to a degree with the plight of Palestinians.

So there you go, despite the fact that both Faithlilly and Stephen have repeatedly swerved my questions on this thread I have answered theirs in full.

One further thing: Jeremy Corbyn will be elected PM of this country on the same day as the McCanns are banged up for hiding their kid's body, on the 12th of Never, so I hope you've both got the stamina to keep on arguing about this until then.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 12:33:29 PM
I have clearly proven that an individual championed by Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite who supports Hamas.  This in turn provides ample evidence of my earlier claim that Corbyn tends to support individuals that would like to see the destruction of the state of Israel.   the person I am calling an anti-semite is Raed Salah, I have accused no one else of being anti-semitic on this thread - not Jeremy Corbyn and not Jews who protest against the actions of the state of Israel.   

the Middle East debate is not one that can be resolved with a pat "yes / no" response, it's far too complex for that and would require a separate thread for a serious grown-up discussion.  However, I do support the right of Israel to exist and to defend itself from sustained attack, whilst simultaneously sympathising to a degree with the plight of Palestinians.

So there you go, despite the fact that both Faithlilly and Stephen yave repeatedly swerved my questions on this thread I have answered theirs in full.

One further thing: Jeremy Corbyn will be elected PM of this country on the same day as the McCanns are banged up for hiding their kid's body, on the 12th of Never, so I hope you've both got the stamina to keep on arguing about this until then.

I couldn't have put it better myself.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 23, 2015, 12:37:18 PM
I have clearly proven that an individual championed by Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite who supports Hamas.  This in turn provides ample evidence of my earlier claim that Corbyn tends to support individuals that would like to see the destruction of the state of Israel.   the person I am calling an anti-semite is Raed Salah, I have accused no one else of being anti-semitic on this thread - not Jeremy Corbyn and not Jews who protest against the actions of the state of Israel.   

the Middle East debate is not one that can be resolved with a pat "yes / no" response, it's far too complex for that and would require a separate thread for a serious grown-up discussion.  However, I do support the right of Israel to exist and to defend itself from sustained attack, whilst simultaneously sympathising to a degree with the plight of Palestinians.

So there you go, despite the fact that both Faithlilly and Stephen yave repeatedly swerved my questions on this thread I have answered theirs in full.

One further thing: Jeremy Corbyn will be elected PM of this country on the same day as the McCanns are banged up for hiding their kid's body, on the 12th of Never, so I hope you've both got the stamina to keep on arguing about this until then.


Do you believe the the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, and take back illegally occupied land ?

Or is only Israel allowed to do that ?

Hamas of course is a legally elected party.

Before the UK and others interfered in the Middle East, the people there no matter their backgrounds  did not engage in a state of attrition.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 23, 2015, 12:45:37 PM
Gawd, what's all this about?   A Party Political Broadcast?

Is it on topic, in any way or form ?

For once dear Sadie we are in agreement. Gosh!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 12:54:15 PM

Yes.  Time to get back On Topic.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 01:47:36 PM

Do you believe the the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves, and take back illegally occupied land ?

Or is only Israel allowed to do that ?

Hamas of course is a legally elected party.

Before the UK and others interfered in the Middle East, the people there no matter their backgrounds  did not engage in a state of attrition.
If you wish to discuss the Middle East question I suggest you start a new thread on the topic.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 01:53:11 PM

Thank you, Alfred.


Anymore further on Jeremy Corbyn or The Palestinian Problem will be deleted.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 02:25:28 PM
I think we have seen today further proof (sadly now deleted) that a troll is anyone whose views you don't agree with, or who you feel has got the better of a poster who shares your views in a debate.  I have been called a troll for posting my views on this thread, in fact the very first time I ever posted any opinion online (and yes, it was about the treatment of the McCanns by the baying online mob) the very first reply my post received was a one-word response.  It said, simply, "troll".  I had no idea what it even meant at the time so I was a little taken aback.  But there we go - in nearly 9 years I'm still being called a troll, nothing changes much!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 23, 2015, 02:31:03 PM
I think we have seen today further proof (sadly now deleted) that a troll is anyone whose views you don't agree with, or who you feel has got the better of a poster who shares your views in a debate.  I have been called a troll for posting my views on this thread, in fact the very first time I ever posted any opinion online (and yes, it was about the treatment of the McCanns by the baying online mob) the very first reply my post received was a one-word response.  It said, simply, "troll".  I had no idea what it even meant at the time so I was a little taken aback.  But there we go - in nearly 9 years I'm still being called a troll, nothing changes much!

You can't make a call for a subject to be discussed seriously while you're discussing aspects of it in the style of K Hopkins and other professional trolls yourself. In this particular instance you're guilty as charged.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 02:32:46 PM
You can't make a call for a subject to be discussed seriously while you're discussing aspects of it in the style of K Hopkins and other professional trolls yourself. In this particular instance you're guilty as charged.
What insulting clap trap.  Please point to any post that I have made on this thread that puts you in mind of Katie Hopkins. I do believe YOU are trolling ME now!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 02:34:58 PM

Insulting Posts will be removed.  So have a care.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 02:39:19 PM
Insulting Posts will be removed.  So have a care.

Perhaps inserting your own approval of Alfie's posts in to the mix  isn't doing all you can to promote harmony eh Eleanor ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 02:44:17 PM
Perhaps inserting your own approval of Alfie's posts in to the mix  isn't doing all you can to promote harmony eh Eleanor ?

Alfred simply suggested starting a new thread.  This was good advice.  Whether or not my agreement promotes harmony is of no interest to me.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 23, 2015, 02:48:29 PM
Alfred simply suggested starting a new thread.  This was good advice.  Whether or not my agreement promotes harmony is of no interest to me.

Evidently.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 23, 2015, 02:54:48 PM

You have been asked to stop going off topic and to stop insulting and goading, all of you.  Now please stop.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 24, 2015, 02:08:43 AM
#McCann on Twitter appears to be flooded with (US?) spam.
That's the 3rd McCann-related forum attacked this month.

Anyone??
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 24, 2015, 09:19:17 AM
#McCann on Twitter appears to be flooded with (US?) spam.
That's the 3rd McCann-related forum attacked this month.

Anyone??


Well, it isn`t me.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 24, 2015, 11:09:28 AM
#McCann on Twitter appears to be flooded with (US?) spam.
That's the 3rd McCann-related forum attacked this month.

Anyone??

TROLLS !!!   All of them

Hope Martin Brunt visits them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 24, 2015, 09:36:27 PM
TROLLS !!!   All of them

Hope Martin Brunt visits them.

and what is brunt sadie.

If he was stupid enough to do what he did again, not everybody would be a pushover.

Brenda was  an easy target and we know what happened next.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 24, 2015, 09:49:35 PM
Seriously - I don't care which side of the fence anyone here is on - but why on earth is much of McCann discussion being targeted? I watched Birch's forum being derailed by what appeared to be schoolkids from Scotland and now spammers on Twitter are even preventing the sceptics from discussing life in LaLa land.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 24, 2015, 09:59:02 PM
and what is brunt sadie.

If he was stupid enough to do what he did again, not everybody would be a pushover.

Brenda was  an easy target and we know what happened next.

Brenda was a sad case, but Brunty was not to know that

And she set it all up herself.   She started it, and didn't like it when the anonomity vanished.


I bet all her old friends away from Madeleine-land let her have it.   And maybe even her family.

Sad that she was so ill, that when she couldn't take the flak, she finished it..
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 24, 2015, 10:02:46 PM
Brenda was a sad case, but Brunty was not to know that

And she set it all up herself.   She started it, and didn't like it when the anonomity vanished.


I bet all her old friends away from Madeleine-land let her have it.   And maybe even her family.

Sad that she was so ill, that when she couldn't take the flak, she finished it..

Brunt was a liar.

She was not under investigation by the police and had committed no crime.

He and his employers chose what they thought was a soft target,as did the dossier compilers and we know who presented that to the police.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 24, 2015, 11:07:05 PM
Brunt was a liar.

She was not under investigation by the police and had committed no crime.

He and his employers chose what they thought was a soft target,as did the dossier compilers and we know who presented that to the police.

I did not take part, but I would have been very happy to have helped assemble such dossier.

the sort of behaviour that Brenda exhibited has to be stopped imo.



I will add that had I helped assemble the dossier and then she had killed herself I would have been very distraught.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 25, 2015, 12:30:05 PM
Brunt was a liar.

She was not under investigation by the police and had committed no crime.

He and his employers chose what they thought was a soft target,as did the dossier compilers and we know who presented that to the police.

That makes no sense.   How could the police state she had committed no crime unless they had investigated her tweets first?   After reading some of her venomous tweets I fail to see how anyone can describe her as a soft target. 

The Coroner found no-one guilty of any wrong doing - and that included Martin Brunt and the dossier compilers.

Much to the disappointment of many sceptics - her family did  not pursue anyone either re her suicide.  In fact they have made no comments at all.   They have also made no attempts to turn her into a victim or a saint.    That should tell you something.

IMO the police took no action in this matter mainly out of respect for her family.     What she did was nasty - but hardly the crime of the century in the scheme of things.

IMO action will have to be taken against trolls in some way at some stage.    The fact that Sarah Payne for instance -  was forced to close her twitter account because of these vile creatures is totally unacceptable IMO.


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 25, 2015, 12:45:54 PM

It is quite obvious that Brenda Leyland was being investigated, so Martin Brunt wasn't lying.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 25, 2015, 12:59:37 PM
That makes no sense.   How could the police state she had committed no crime unless they had investigated her tweets first?   After reading some of her venomous tweets I fail to see how anyone can describe her as a soft target. 

The Coroner found no-one guilty of any wrong doing - and that included Martin Brunt and the dossier compilers.

Much to the disappointment of many sceptics - her family did  not pursue anyone either re her suicide.  In fact they have made no comments at all.   They have also made no attempts to turn her into a victim or a saint.    That should tell you something.

IMO the police took no action in this matter mainly out of respect for her family.     What she did was nasty - but hardly the crime of the century in the scheme of things.

IMO action will have to be taken against trolls in some way at some stage.    The fact that Sarah Payne for instance -  was forced to close her twitter account because of these vile creatures is totally unacceptable IMO.

Very sound analysis ....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 25, 2015, 02:51:29 PM
That makes no sense.   How could the police state she had committed no crime unless they had investigated her tweets first?   After reading some of her venomous tweets I fail to see how anyone can describe her as a soft target. 

The Coroner found no-one guilty of any wrong doing - and that included Martin Brunt and the dossier compilers.

Much to the disappointment of many sceptics - her family did  not pursue anyone either re her suicide.  In fact they have made no comments at all.   They have also made no attempts to turn her into a victim or a saint.    That should tell you something.

IMO the police took no action in this matter mainly out of respect for her family.     What she did was nasty - but hardly the crime of the century in the scheme of things.

IMO action will have to be taken against trolls in some way at some stage.    The fact that Sarah Payne for instance -  was forced to close her twitter account because of these vile creatures is totally unacceptable IMO.

The silence from her family is deafening.
Perhaps those who are attempting to make capital from her demise should consider them and allow them to remember her as they would wish without the stigma attached to their name and that of future grandchildren by her actions.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 06:13:10 PM
It is quite obvious that Brenda Leyland was being investigated, so Martin Brunt wasn't lying.

Investigated by mccann supporters who went into hiding afterwards.

The police weren't investigating her.

The mccanns as admitted by BHH handed the dossier to the police.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
The silence from her family is deafening.
Perhaps those who are attempting to make capital from her demise should consider them and allow them to remember her as they would wish without the stigma attached to their name and that of future grandchildren by her actions.

The stigma is attached to the mccanns.

That's where the case starts and finishes.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 25, 2015, 06:17:06 PM
Investigated by mccann supporters who went into hiding afterwards.

The police weren't investigating her.

The mccanns as admitted by BHH handed the dossier to the police.
If the police weren't investigating her then who determined that she had committed no crime?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 25, 2015, 06:18:05 PM
The stigma is attached to the mccanns.

That's where the case starts and finishes.

Only for a vanishingly small number of "sceptics", Stephen.

 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 06:18:43 PM
If the police weren't investigating her then who determined that she had committed no crime?

After her death Alfred.

She was picked as an easy 'target'.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 06:19:51 PM
Only for a vanishingly small number of "sceptics", Stephen.

No JP.

Just for the very few remaining mccann supporters.

Very few
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 25, 2015, 06:50:39 PM
After her death Alfred.

She was picked as an easy 'target'.
I said "who" not "when".  Was a dossier not handed to the police before her death?  Did the police throw the dossier in the bin, without further ado?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 06:52:31 PM
I said "who" not "when".  Was a dossier not handed to the police before her death?  Did the police throw the dossier in the bin, without further ado?

Of course it was.

The police stated she wasn' t being investigated.

The dossier compilers were and remain cowards, hiding behind anonymity.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 25, 2015, 07:04:13 PM
Of course it was.

The police stated she wasn' t being investigated.

The dossier compilers were and remain cowards, hiding behind anonymity.

This middle class woman has been unveiled as one of the trolls accused of targeting vile internet abuse at Madeleine Mccann's parents.
Scotland Yard is currently investigating the posting online of hundreds of hate messages aimed at the McCanns, whose daughter disappeared during a family holiday to Portugal in 2007.
Detectives have decided to act after being given a dossier from McCann family supporters which catalogues the abusive remarks – including death threats – aimed at the couple on Twitter, Facebook and online forums.
And Brenda Leyland, 63, who has posted dozens of messages attacking the McCanns using the Twitter handle @sweepyface, has been identified as one of them.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2777145/Police-probe-trolls-sending-hate-messages-McCanns-Detectives-investigate-given-dossier-catalogues-remarks-including-death-threats.html#ixzz3jqpi1vZc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 07:14:25 PM
This middle class woman has been unveiled as one of the trolls accused of targeting vile internet abuse at Madeleine Mccann's parents.
Scotland Yard is currently investigating the posting online of hundreds of hate messages aimed at the McCanns, whose daughter disappeared during a family holiday to Portugal in 2007.
Detectives have decided to act after being given a dossier from McCann family supporters which catalogues the abusive remarks – including death threats – aimed at the couple on Twitter, Facebook and online forums.
And Brenda Leyland, 63, who has posted dozens of messages attacking the McCanns using the Twitter handle @sweepyface, has been identified as one of them.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2777145/Police-probe-trolls-sending-hate-messages-McCanns-Detectives-investigate-given-dossier-catalogues-remarks-including-death-threats.html#ixzz3jqpi1vZc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Brenda Leyland and others names were had their names hands to the police by BY MCCANN SUPPORTERS who took the law into their own hands in a COWARDLY FASHION.

Did Brenda Leyland make death threats ?

NO.

Did she communicate directly to the mccanns ?

NO.

Had she commuted any criminal act ?

NO.

Have the police charged anyone on the list ?

NO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 25, 2015, 07:17:05 PM
So when you said that Brenda Leyland wasn't being investigated, were you lying?

Or were you spouting ignorantly? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 07:20:21 PM
So when you said that Brenda Leyland wasn't being investigated, were you lying?

Or were you spouting ignorantly?

The police said she wasn't.

Do you know members of the dossier compilers ferryman ?

Remember BHH stated the mccanns handed the police the dossier, or do want to call him a liar as well ?

It also means the dossier compilers were in contact with the mccanns, and not just 'concerned members of the public'.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 25, 2015, 07:21:44 PM
If the police weren't investigating her then who determined that she had committed no crime?

SY sent the dossier  to LP saying it was nothing to do with their investigation..Pah hahahaha!
LP decided no crime had been committed..Simples.

Next!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 25, 2015, 07:28:32 PM
SY sent the dossier  to LP saying it was nothing to do with their investigation..Pah hahahaha!
LP decided no crime had been committed..Simples.

Next!
How did they decide no crime had been committed?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 25, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
How did they decide no crime had been committed?

Well, being police officers they probably asked a few questions like... why are you here?, What is your complaint, they probably listened to the ramblings and said  well no crime has been commited... bye bye, now watch the step oops too late...

OR something along those lines.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 25, 2015, 07:34:56 PM
Well, being police officers they probably asked a few questions like... why are you here?, What is your complaint, they probably listened to the ramblings and said  well no crime has been commited... bye bye, now watch the step oops too late...

OR something along those lines.
So an alleged crime was reported and the police did what....?  Ignored it or investigated the claim?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 25, 2015, 07:52:11 PM
So an alleged crime was reported and the police did what....?  Ignored it or investigated the claim?

Reported by a little clique of mccann supporters.

After which Brenda Leyland committed suicide after sky in the form of brunt accused her of being investigated by the police.

Now how would the dossier compilers like their names and photos plastered across the media, and the nature of the forum sites they inhabit or in some cases inhabited, exposed to true public scrutiny ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 25, 2015, 07:54:10 PM
So an alleged crime was reported and the police did what....?  Ignored it or investigated the claim?

No, they listened and defined the story as not worthy of criminal investigation. oh gawd you hate my replies.. tsk!

Police often tell members of the public- 'curtain twitchers'- that they have no good reason to investigate people who use the wrong wheelie bin for rubbish... stuff like that.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2015, 12:17:30 AM
Reported by a little clique of mccann supporters.

After which Brenda Leyland committed suicide after sky in the form of brunt accused her of being investigated by the police.

Now how would the dossier compilers like their names and photos plastered across the media, and the nature of the forum sites they inhabit or in some cases inhabited, exposed to true public scrutiny ?

Brenda more likely committed suicide because her friends, neighbours and family turned against her.

And in those friends i include all the phoney, so called "friends" she had made on the internet.   I bet most of them walked away.  Turned their backs on her.



She would have been frightened, felt alone, isolated, and rejected .... and IMO that is likely the reason that she committed suicide ... along with the realisation that she was no longer anonymous saying the awful things that she had.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 09:11:24 AM
No, they listened and defined the story as not worthy of criminal investigation. oh gawd you hate my replies.. tsk!

Police often tell members of the public- 'curtain twitchers'- that they have no good reason to investigate people who use the wrong wheelie bin for rubbish... stuff like that.
Several weeks elapsed between the dossier being handed in and the police announcing that they would be taking no action.  What were they doing in the intervening period? 

PS: I love your replies, they are very amusing. @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 09:24:29 AM
Brenda more likely committed suicide because her friends, neighbours and family turned against her.

And in those friends i include all the phoney, so called "friends" she had made on the internet.   I bet most of them walked away.  Turned their backs on her.



She would have been frightened, felt alone, isolated, and rejected .... and IMO that is likely the reason that she committed suicide ... along with the realisation that she was no longer anonymous saying the awful things that she had.

Tell me sadie, how would you respond to your name, image, address being broadcast on national tv and newspapers......................

Being labelled as a troll.

Your personal attacks on Amaral, etc.

.............along with your online material and theories, and then being the object of scorn and ridicule ?

Meanwhile Brenda, at the behest of the dossier compilers who tried to keep their identities unknown (the latter didn't work out too well)  was exposed by bunt and sky without mercy.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 09:35:01 AM
Tell me sadie, how would you respond to your name, image, address being broadcast on national tv and newspapers......................

Being labelled as a troll.

Your personal attacks on Amaral, etc.

.............along with your online material and theories, and then being the object of scorn and ridicule ?

Meanwhile Brenda, at the behest of the dossier compilers who tried to keep their identities unknown (the latter didn't work out too well)  was exposed by bunt and sky without mercy.

That's news to me - so who are the dossier compilers then?  Do tell.







Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 09:41:38 AM
No troll wants their name and details plastered across the media, that's why the majority of them post anonymously.  If Brenda really believed she was in the right, had nothing to be ashamed of and was a genuine justice seeker then why didn't she stand her ground?

If Chris Spivey had committed suicide would it have been Lee Rigby's parents fault?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 09:50:53 AM
That's news to me - so who are the dossier compilers then?  Do tell.

Seek and thee shall find.....................

Complete cowards of course. 8(0(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 10:05:53 AM
Seek and thee shall find.....................

Complete cowards of course. 8(0(*
Please explain why it is cowardly to report a suspected crime?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Seek and thee shall find.....................

Complete cowards of course. 8(0(*

In other words you haven't got a clue who they are -  and it's just wishful thinking on your part.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 10:20:50 AM
In other words you haven't got a clue who they are -  and it's just wishful thinking on your part.

Are you showing a guilty conscience ? 8**8:/:
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 10:40:19 AM
Please explain why it is cowardly to report a suspected crime?

Whose job is it to investigate a crime ?

A suspected crime should be reported to the police to investigate.

This dossier was also passed to sky news and THEY LIED to Brenda Leyland and the public as well.

These mccann backers and the mccanns hold responsibility for what happened.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 10:55:53 AM
Whose job is it to investigate a crime ?

A suspected crime should be reported to the police to investigate.

This dossier was also passed to sky news and THEY LIED to Brenda Leyland and the public as well.

These mccann backers and the mccanns hold responsibility for what happened.

Without getting into the whole Molinet causality argument "Par ung seul clou perd on ung bon cheval";

Brenda Leyland was quite literally the author of her own misfortune. 

   
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 10:58:29 AM
Without getting into the whole Molinet causality argument "Par ung seul clou perd on ung bon cheval";

Brenda Leyland was quite literally the author of her own misfortune. 

 

By that logic JP, so were the mccanns.

Tell me this, how would like your name, photos, address, etc., plastered all over the media, whilst the plasterers maintain their anonymity ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 11:07:51 AM
Are you showing a guilty conscience ? 8**8:/:


LOL - I rest my case re your 'wishful thinking' on who the dossier compilers are.

Where is your proof that it is now known who they are?

IMO -  the chances of the identities of the dossier compilers being known - are about as good as the chances of you giving a straight answer to my question above.

IOW NIL

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
Whose job is it to investigate a crime ?

A suspected crime should be reported to the police to investigate.

This dossier was also passed to sky news and THEY LIED to Brenda Leyland and the public as well.

These mccann backers and the mccanns hold responsibility for what happened.
Why is it cowardly to pass information of a suspected crime to the media?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 11:14:18 AM
By that logic JP, so were the mccanns.

Tell me this, how would like your name, photos, address, etc., plastered all over the media, whilst the plasterers maintain their anonymity ?


Brenda Leyland obsessively posted about a pair of grieving parents, while hiding rather ineffectually under her pseudonym "sweepyface" - so was a brave keyboard warrior who could not cope with being unmasked.  Its as simple as that.

Personally, I have a rule never to write anything to or about anyone that I would not say to their face.




Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 11:21:12 AM

Brenda Leyland obsessively posted about a pair of grieving parents, while hiding rather ineffectually under her pseudonym "sweepyface" - so was a brave keyboard warrior who could not cope with being unmasked.  Its as simple as that.

Personally, I have a rule never to write anything to or about anyone that I would not say to their face.

The second paragraph i agree with.

As to the first. The mccanns repeatedly and unnecessarily placed their children in danger.

The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police.

The mccanns thought by 'exposing' so called 'trolls' they would gain sympathy.

They were wrong and Brenda Leyland who clearly had problems paid the price.

As to brunt and sky, they deserve no more than utter and pure contempt.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 12:06:37 PM
The second paragraph i agree with.

As to the first. The mccanns repeatedly and unnecessarily placed their children in danger. NEEDLESSLY.

The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police.

The mccanns thought by 'exposing' so called 'trolls' they would gain sympathy.

They were wrong and Brenda Leyland who clearly had problems paid the price.

As to brunt and sky, they deserve no more than utter and pure contempt.

Maybe you should remember to put ''IMO'' after some of your accusations and not present them as facts.   Your post above is  libellous IMO.

As far as we know the McCanns were sent a copy of the dossier, which they handed to the police - and that was their only involvement with it.     If you can prove that they handed it to Skye - then produce your evidence. 

It is also only your opinion that Martin Brunt and Skye should also be blamed for BL's decision to take her own life (that is what you are saying isn't it?).   The Coroner disagreed with you and found that no-one was guilty of any wrongdoing.

Are you now also claiming to know better than the Coroner - as well as SY and the Oporto team?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 12:23:44 PM
Maybe you should remember to put ''IMO'' after some of your accusations and not present them as facts.   Your post above is  libellous IMO.

As far as we know the McCanns were sent a copy of the dossier, which they handed to the police - and that was their only involvement with it.     If you can prove that they handed it to Skye - then produce your evidence. 

It is also only your opinion that Martin Brunt and Skye should also be blamed for BL's decision to take her own life (that is what you are saying isn't it?).   The Coroner disagreed with you and found that no-one was guilty of any wrongdoing.

Are you now also claiming to know better than the Coroner - as well as SY and the Oporto team?

IYO libellous. ?

The only place the 'dossier' should have gone to is the police and you know it.

Defending the indefensible.

That is all you do.

Tell me have you reported my post to the mods 8**8:/:
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 26, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNKQ-1NWcAAokoh.png:large)
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 26, 2015, 12:31:36 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNKQ-1NWcAAokoh.png:large)


Ditto many other people in PdL that night. Yet the trolls only attack the parents.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 26, 2015, 12:35:38 PM
The second paragraph i agree with.

As to the first. The mccanns repeatedly and unnecessarily placed their children in danger.

The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police.

The mccanns thought by 'exposing' so called 'trolls' they would gain sympathy.

They were wrong and Brenda Leyland who clearly had problems paid the price.

As to brunt and sky, they deserve no more than utter and pure contempt.

IYO would BL have taken the same course of action had the police, rather than Martin Brunt, turned up on her doorstep to take a statement?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Anna on August 26, 2015, 12:42:43 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNKQ-1NWcAAokoh.png:large)

marks Allvoices

BY NIGEL MOORE
Jul 09, 2013 at 6:11 PM PDT [Jul 10, 2013 at 02:11 AM BST]
Excerpt:

Last week, as part of Scotland Yard's decision to update the public on the progress of their 'investigative review' into the Madeleine McCann case, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood stated: "Neither her parents or any of the member (sic) of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects."

There will be many who will be greatly surprised at those words. Not least the Assistant Chief Constable of Leicestershire Police, who stated in July 2008 that "While one or both of them [the McCanns] may be innocent, there is no clear evidence that eliminates them from involvement in Madeleine's disappearance." At that time the McCanns were attempting to gain access to all the documents held by Leicester Police regarding the disappearance of their daughter. The request was denied.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id447.html
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 12:45:20 PM
IYO libellous. ?

The only place the 'dossier' should have gone to is the police and you know it.

Defending the indefensible.

That is all you do.

Tell me have you reported my post to the mods 8**8:/:

So IOW you have no proof that the McCanns handed the dossier to SKYE - which is what you claimed in your attempt to implicate them in  BL's suicide.     

Any accusations apart from - 'they passed the dossier onto the police' are  libellous IMO

No I haven't reported your post to the Mods.   I thought I would first give you the opportunity to provide evidence of  the McCanns involvement in BL's demise.

So where is it?

As for 'defending the indefensible' - you really don't do 'irony' do you Stephen.


   

 



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
So IOW you have no proof that the McCanns handed the dossier to SKYE - which is what you claimed in your attempt to implicate them in  BL's suicide.     

Any accusations apart from - 'they passed the dossier onto the police' are  libellous IMO

No I haven't reported your post to the Mods.   I thought I would first give you the opportunity to provide evidence of  the McCanns involvement in BL's demise.

So where is it?

As for 'defending the indefensible' - you really don't do 'irony' do you Stephen.


   

 

It has been aknowledged the dossier compilers were complicit  with the mccanns.

Now tell me Benice,  would Brenda still be alive today if the dossier had just been sent to the police ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 12:54:36 PM
It has been a knowledge the dossier compilers were complicit  with the mccanns.

Now tell me Benice,  would Brenda still be alive today if the dossier had just been sent to the police ?

OK Stephen -its put up or shut up time.

Lets see the proof that the McCanns had anything at all to do with this dossier.   

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 12:57:42 PM
OK Stephen -its put up or shut up time.

Lets see the proof that the McCanns had anything at all to do with this dossier.

BHH said so. Have you forgotten ???

Do you wish to call him a liar as well ???
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 01:00:29 PM
BHH said so. Have you forgotten ???

Is that your "proof" Stephen?  Really? 



 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Is that your "proof" Stephen?  Really? 



 

I will add more later.

....and I will add this as well.

Any one supporting the dossier compilers are just as much cowards as those who compiled the documents.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 26, 2015, 01:08:36 PM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNKQ-1NWcAAokoh.png:large)

That quote, particularly devoid of context, is outright libel.

Key point: the comment was made before the files were released.

Certainly failure to make that point clear is libel.

The jury is out on whether the caption, with caveat, is also libel.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 01:13:31 PM
I will add more later.

....and I will add this as well.

Any one supporting the dossier compilers are just as much cowards as those who compiled the documents.


I look forward to your proof that the McCanns handed the dossier to SKYE - which according to you  makes them complicit in BL's demise - along with M. Brunt and SKYE.

BTW - what happened to the 'tit for tat'  dossier which anonymous sceptics were apparently busy compiling of evil tweets from 'supporters -  and which was then going to be handed to the police.    Any news?



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 26, 2015, 01:14:50 PM

Brenda Leyland obsessively posted about a pair of grieving parents, while hiding rather ineffectually under her pseudonym "sweepyface" - so was a brave keyboard warrior who could not cope with being unmasked.  Its as simple as that.

Personally, I have a rule never to write anything to or about anyone that I would not say to their face.

But as you post anonymously, as is the case with 99% of supporters, you'll never have to put that to the test will you JP ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: G-Unit on August 26, 2015, 01:17:54 PM
That quote, particularly devoid of context, is outright libel.

Key point: the comment was made before the files were released.

Certainly failure to make that point clear is libel.

The jury is out on whether the caption, with caveat, is also libel.

Kate McCaann quoted it in her book. I wonder why she didn't sue the Assistant Chief Constable if it was libelous?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 01:19:06 PM

I look forward to your proof that the McCanns handed the cdossier to SKYE - which according to you  makes them complicit in BL's demise - along with M. Brunt and SKYE.

BTW - what happened to the 'tit for tat'  dossier which anonymous sceptics were apparently busy compiling of evil tweets from 'supporters -  and which was then going to be handed to the police.    Any news?

Oh Benice,  I have done that already. Don't tell me you didn't  hear the radio interview with BHH ?

and do not try to put words in my mouth either.

So 'benice'  would Brenda Leyland still be alive if sky and Brunt had not confronted  her on national TV ?


Easy question to answer.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 01:21:38 PM
Oh Benice,  I have done that already. Don't tell me you didn't  hear the radio interview with BHH ?

and do not try to put words in my mouth either.

So 'benice'  would Brenda Leyland still be alive if sky and Brunt had not confronted  her on national TV ?


Easy question to answer.
why wasn't she proud of her actions and prepared to defend them?  Why haven't her friends and family spoken up about what a shining example to justice seekers everywhere she was?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 01:25:05 PM
why wasn't she proud of her actions and prepared to defend them?  Why haven't her friends and family spoken up about what a shining example to justice seekers everywhere she was?

Have you been exposed on National TV Alfred as she was ?

How would you react to being called a troll and humiliated by bunt ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
Oh Benice,  I have done that already. Don't tell me you didn't  hear the radio interview with BHH ?

and do not try to put words in my mouth either.

So 'benice'  would Brenda Leyland still be alive if sky and Brunt had not confronted  her on national TV ?


Easy question to answer.

Oh, a radio interview, eh ?   Is that fact or is it a cover up? 

What channel and when please.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 01:30:44 PM
But as you post anonymously, as is the case with 99% of supporters, you'll never have to put that to the test will you JP ?

I post anonymously because I am not stupid.  As do you.

ave you seen any posts of mine which breach the rule?

 

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 01:32:22 PM
That quote, particularly devoid of context, is outright libel.

Key point: the comment was made before the files were released.

Certainly failure to make that point clear is libel.

The jury is out on whether the caption, with caveat, is also libel.

It was also made while the McCanns were still arguidos.    In view of that fact  there is no way a senior british police officer would have publically said anything which even suggested the PJ were completely wrong.    It could have created a 'diplomatic incident' and certainly damaged relations between the two police forces.   So IMO he did the best he could and attempted to take the middle ground.    However some sceptics always totally ignore the point he made i.e. - 'whilst one or both may be innocent'. 

IMO the McCanns were naieve to expect a release of any files whilst they were arguidos.

Things have moved on apace since those days years ago, and I would be surprised if the same officer would make the same statement now.







 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 01:32:54 PM
Have you been exposed on National TV Alfred as she was ?

How would you react to being called a troll and humiliated by bunt ?
If I felt I had done no wrong I would react in much the same way as the McCanns did when they were accused by the national media of being swingers, killers, body disposers etc.  With dignity and a burning desire to get justice for myself and my family to clear my name.  If I felt shame at trolling the parents of a missing child I'd probably throw my computer in the bin, publicly apologise for my vile behaviour and keep a low profile til the fuss was over.  what would you do?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
Oh Benice,  I have done that already. Don't tell me you didn't  hear the radio interview with BHH ?

and do not try to put words in my mouth either.

So 'benice'  would Brenda Leyland still be alive if sky and Brunt had not confronted  her on national TV ?


Easy question to answer.

So where did BHH say that the McCanns handed to dossier to SKYE as you claimed?







Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
Oh Benice,  I have done that already. Don't tell me you didn't  hear the radio interview with BHH ?

and do not try to put words in my mouth either.

So 'benice'  would Brenda Leyland still be alive if sky and Brunt had not confronted  her on national TV ?


Easy question to answer.

Simple question Stephen.

Provide a cite that the McCanns had anything to do with the handing of the "dossier" to SKYE.  Or withdraw and apologise.

Are you man enough to do that?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 26, 2015, 01:46:31 PM
Kate McCaann quoted it in her book. I wonder why she didn't sue the Assistant Chief Constable if it was libelous?

Maybe because there was a comment of similar tenor in the archiving process?:
snip>>>>>
We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified. >>>>snip.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2015, 01:50:07 PM
Oh, a radio interview, eh ?   Is that fact or is it a cover up? 

What channel and when please.

and also:

So where did BHH say that the McCanns handed to dossier to SKYE as you claimed?


.... and I have just seen Jean-Pierre too

So now we have three of us asking.   We haven't seen or heard it. 

Can you come up with the goods please Stephen?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 02:08:43 PM
Just a reminder for the believers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02789bx

Gerry McCann says "Clearly something needs to be done about the abuse on the internet.  I think we probably need more people charged"

and his word is god.............. &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 02:11:56 PM
Just a reminder for the believers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02789bx

Which comes up with

"Sorry, this episode is not currently available on BBC iPlayer Radio "

ETA - So where is this evidence that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to SKYE news? 

Are you able to provide at least a cite, Stephen?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 02:25:13 PM
Which comes up with

"Sorry, this episode is not currently available on BBC iPlayer Radio "

ETA - So where is this evidence that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to SKYE news? 

Are you able to provide at least a cite, Stephen?


' The McCanns have tried to distance their organization from involvement in the dossier; moreover, the press’ marketing of it as an outgrowth of public concern, is utterly dishonest. On October 2nd, Closer Magazine said the McCanns had called the police. Then, on the 8th of October, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe confirmed the McCanns handed the document over to SY. Ten days later, the Sunday Times also said the McCanns had handed the file over to police. Closer and the Independent reported the McCanns had filed the complaints on the 9th of September just under a month before Leyland died. (4) (5) (6 '

Make no mistake, no matter all the denials, the mccanns were right up to the neck with the dossier.

Now I wonder why the B.B.C. program, the link which i have given before is no longer available ?

More later.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 02:31:46 PM

' The McCanns have tried to distance their organization from involvement in the dossier; moreover, the press’ marketing of it as an outgrowth of public concern, is utterly dishonest. On October 2nd, Closer Magazine said the McCanns had called the police. Then, on the 8th of October, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe confirmed the McCanns handed the document over to SY. Ten days later, the Sunday Times also said the McCanns had handed the file over to police. Closer and the Independent reported the McCanns had filed the complaints on the 9th of September just under a month before Leyland died. (4) (5) (6 '

Make no mistake, no matter all the denials, the mccanns were right up to the neck with the dossier.

Now I wonder why the B.B.C. program, the link which i have given before is no longer available ?

More later.

You are actually quoting a celebrity gossip magazine?   *&*%£

Where is the evidence to support your allegation that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to SKYE? 

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 02:38:12 PM
You are actually quoting a celebrity gossip magazine?   *&*%£

Where is the evidence to support your allegation that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to SKYE?

Are you calling Hogan-Howe a liar JP.

The mccanns are right up to the armpits with the dossier and those that compiled it.

Now unless you are incredibly naive, which I know you're not, it just leaves one possibility.  8**8:/:
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 02:39:44 PM
You are actually quoting a celebrity gossip magazine?   *&*%£

Where is the evidence to support your allegation that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to SKYE?

No doubt you can provide the Sunday Times and Independent cites?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 02:41:57 PM
Are you calling Hogan-Howe a liar JP.

The mccanns are right up to the armpits with the dossier and those that compiled it.

Now unless you are incredibly naive, which I know you're not, it just leaves one possibility.  8**8:/:

What did Hogan Howe say?

You say that the McCanns handed the dossier to SKYE. 

You need to back that up.

And what is that possibility? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 02:47:02 PM
What did Hogan Howe say?

You say that the McCanns handed the dossier to SKYE. 

You need to back that up.

And what is that possibility?

Who is SKYE, by the way ?

There is SKY TV NEWS  8)--))

So who handed the dossier to SKY,  the fairies at the bottom of the garden ?  8)-)))

Willy Wonka perhaps ?  ?{)(**
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
Are you calling Hogan-Howe a liar JP.

The mccanns are right up to the armpits with the dossier and those that compiled it.

Now unless you are incredibly naive, which I know you're not, it just leaves one possibility.  8**8:/:

It appears you remain perfectly content with the damage so called internet trolls are capable of inflicting on people as long as the surname of those people is McCann.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 02:57:04 PM
Who is SKYE, by the way ?

There is SKY TV NEWS  8)--))

So who handed the dossier to SKY,  the fairies at the bottom of the garden ?  8)-)))

Willy Wonka perhaps ?  ?{)(**

You are wriggling like a fish on a hook, Stephen.  Its really rather pathetic to see.

It rather reminds me of the claim you made that the "McCanns employed crooks" (Antonio Jiminez Raso, Francisco Marco). Oooops!

A tip - if you don't want to be a laughing stock, make sure

(a) What you claim is correct
(b) And that you can back it up. 
(c) if you can't, apologise and withdraw gracefully
 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 26, 2015, 02:57:13 PM
It appears you remain perfectly content with the damage so called internet trolls are capable of inflicting on people as long as the surname of those people is McCann.

As long as you lay off Les it sounds good to me  8(>((
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 03:03:21 PM
As long as you lay off Les it sounds good to me  8(>((

Is his daughter missing too?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:06:47 PM
You are wriggling like a fish on a hook, Stephen.  Its really rather pathetic to see.

It rather reminds me of the claim you made that the "McCanns employed crooks" (Antonio Jiminez Raso, Francisco Marco). Oooops!

A tip - if you don't want to be a laughing stock, make sure

(a) What you claim is correct
(b) And that you can back it up. 
(c) if you can't, apologise and withdraw gracefully
 

This is no laughing matter.

Brenda Leyland died.

The mccanns handed the dossier to the Police, FACT.

BHH said so.

Are you calling him a liar ?

So if it wasn't the mccanns giving the dossier to SKY, who was it.

It was given them by the compilers.


and if you seriously think attacking me is going to work, you are sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 26, 2015, 03:07:26 PM
It was also made while the McCanns were still arguidos.    In view of that fact  there is no way a senior british police officer would have publically said anything which even suggested the PJ were completely wrong.    It could have created a 'diplomatic incident' and certainly damaged relations between the two police forces.   So IMO he did the best he could and attempted to take the middle ground.    However some sceptics always totally ignore the point he made i.e. - 'whilst one or both may be innocent'. 

IMO the McCanns were naieve to expect a release of any files whilst they were arguidos.

Things have moved on apace since those days years ago, and I would be surprised if the same officer would make the same statement now.

Bang-on right.  Especially the part I underline.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
This is no laughing matter.

Brenda Leyland died.

The mccanns handed the dossier to the Police, FACT.

BHH said so.

Are you calling him a liar ?

So if it wasn't the mccanns giving the dossier to SKY, who was it.

It was given them by the compilers.


and if you seriously think attacking me is going to work, you are sadly mistaken.

Oh dear Stephen.  You seem a little bit rattled.  Not good for the blood pressure.

Are you claiming that Gerry and Kate McCann complied the dossier?  You really need to provide a cite for that.

If Hogan Howe says that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to the police then who am I to argue.  What is wrong with them alerting the police to Leylands activities.

But you are now conflating the perfectly proper handing of evidence to the police with handing it over to Sky News. 

I am not attacking you Stephen.  I am merely asking you to back up your allegations.  You really do seem to have a problem with that.

Perhaps that is because, as usual, you are unable to. 

Never mind.     
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:22:32 PM
Oh dear Stephen.  You seem a little bit rattled.  Not good for the blood pressure.

Are you claiming that Gerry and Kate McCann complied the dossier?  You really need to provide a cite for that.

If Hogan Howe says that the McCanns handed the "dossier" to the police then who am I to argue.  What is wrong with them alerting the police to Leylands activities.

But you are now conflating the perfectly proper handing of evidence to the police with handing it over to Sky News. 

I am not attacking you Stephen.  I am merely asking you to back up your allegations.  You really do seem to have a problem with that.

Perhaps that is because, as usual, you are unable to. 

Never mind.     

My blood pressure is fine.

However, the never ending denials that come from posters in support of the mccanns merely reinforces perceptions.

Now jp, who gave the dossier to SKY ?

It wasn't the police was it ?

The mccanns were given it from their supporters...............

I presume you can follow logical progressions ?  8)--))
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 03:33:05 PM
My blood pressure is fine.

However, the never ending denials that come from posters in support of the mccanns merely reinforces perceptions.

Now jp, who gave the dossier to SKY ?

It wasn't the police was it ?

The mccanns were given it from their supporters...............

I presume you can follow logical progressions ?  8)--))

Lets get this straight. Are you saying that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky News?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Lets get this straight. Are you saying that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky News?

Who else would have done this without the mccanns complicity ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
Who else would have done this without the mccanns complicity ?

How about the compliers of the dossier? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11134162/Investigation-into-McCann-internet-trolls-launched-by-police.html

I think if you are going to accuse K and G McCann of handing the dossier to Sky News you need to provide some actual proof.     
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:40:19 PM
How about the compliers of the dossier? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11134162/Investigation-into-McCann-internet-trolls-launched-by-police.html

I think if you are going to accuse K and G McCann of handing the dossier to Sky News you need to provide some actual proof.   

I've read all that before, and the press wasn't telling the truth.

They implied the dossier was handed to the police by the compilers.

It wasn't.

It was by the mccanns themselves.

BHH said so.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 03:46:47 PM

' The McCanns have tried to distance their organization from involvement in the dossier; moreover, the press’ marketing of it as an outgrowth of public concern, is utterly dishonest. On October 2nd, Closer Magazine said the McCanns had called the police. Then, on the 8th of October, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe confirmed the McCanns handed the document over to SY. Ten days later, the Sunday Times also said the McCanns had handed the file over to police. Closer and the Independent reported the McCanns had filed the complaints on the 9th of September just under a month before Leyland died. (4) (5) (6 '

Make no mistake, no matter all the denials, the mccanns were right up to the neck with the dossier.

Now I wonder why the B.B.C. program, the link which i have given before is no longer available ?

More later.
Where, in the above blurb, does it say the McCanns handed the dossier over to Sky?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 03:49:56 PM
I've read all that before, and the press wasn't telling the truth.

They implied the dossier was handed to the police by the compilers.

It wasn't.

It was by the mccanns themselves.

BHH said so.

If they did, I cannot see any problem. 

Can you provide evidence that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky News, as you have claimed?

It really is very simple. 

yes - in which case provide evidence

Or

No.  In which case, withdraw your claim.

Your call.

 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:51:17 PM
Where, in the above blurb, does it say the McCanns handed the dossier over to Sky?

Who else did it.

The press lied on who handed it to the police, calling them, 'members of the public' when they are unabashed mccann supporters, and nothing else.

The mccanns handed it to the police as admitted by BHH.

The dossier compilers were one step in the chain, which ends with the mccanns.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 03:54:13 PM
If they did, I cannot see any problem. 

Can you provide evidence that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky News, as you have claimed?

It really is very simple. 

yes - in which case provide evidence

Or

No.  In which case, withdraw your claim.

Your call.

NO CHANCE of withdrawing the claim.

There is more than enough evidence already.

Unless you are in denial, and that's not hard to work out why.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 26, 2015, 03:55:12 PM
If they did, I cannot see any problem. 

Can you provide evidence that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky News, as you have claimed?

It really is very simple. 

yes - in which case provide evidence

Or

No.  In which case, withdraw your claim.

Your call.


Just a quick interruption..........Would you object or feel concerned in any way if the McCanns themselves had handed the dossier to Sky News?


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 04:00:00 PM
Stephen has called the dossier compilers cowards for handing the dossier to Sky News, but has also claimed the McCanns handed it over - so which is it to be Stephen?  The 'cowardly' dossier compilers or the dastardly McCanns?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 04:05:49 PM
This is no laughing matter.

Brenda Leyland died.

The mccanns handed the dossier to the Police, FACT.

BHH said so.

Are you calling him a liar ?

So if it wasn't the mccanns giving the dossier to SKY, who was it.

It was given them by the compilers.

The more you deny the truth, the more contemptuous your behaviour becomes.


and if you seriously think attacking me is going to work, you are sadly mistaken.

You have really no idea why Brenda Leyland died ... all we really know about her are her internet activities which did her no credit ... and the fact that she had attempted suicide before.

That her immediate family wish to disassociate themselves is patently obvious ... I for one regret that constant raising of her name in the context of her internet trolling on the Drs McCann doesn't respect their privacy.
Obviously you have no regard for that.

The unwelcome link she had forged with Madeleine McCann's parents and her apparent obsession with them was a link which was entirely one sided and one which it was within her power to sever at any time over the years.

Unfortunately the McCann family are given no choice to sever connection to people who are prepared to stalk them both on-line and as in the case of some, in person.

Brenda Leyland lived fifteen miles from Rothley ... close enough for discomfort.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 04:06:01 PM
Stephen has called the dossier compilers cowards for handing the dossier to Sky News, but has also claimed the McCanns handed it over - so which is it to be Stephen?  The 'cowardly' dossier compilers or the dastardly McCanns?

Dossier Compilers --------Mccanns-------------Police and Sky

anmd the papers said the dossier compilers gave them to the police. LIE.

It was the mccanns.  Thanks to the truth given by BHH.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
Dossier Compilers --------Mccanns-------------Police and Sky

anmd the papers said the dossier compilers gave them to the police. LIE.

It was the mccanns.  Thanks to the truth given by BHH.

  Perhaps you could clarify again what it is you're saying as it's not clear from above.  You said the dossier compilers were cowards for what reason...?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 04:08:21 PM
You have really no idea why Brenda Leyland died ... all we really know about her are her internet activities which did her no credit ... and the fact that she had attempted suicide before.

That her immediate family wish to disassociate themselves is patently obvious ... I for one regret that constant raising of her name in the context of her internet trolling on the Drs McCann doesn't respect their privacy.
Obviously you have no regard for that.

The unwelcome link she had forged with Madeleine McCann's parents and her apparent obsession with them was a link which was entirely one sided and one which it was within her power to sever at any time over the years.

Unfortunately the McCann family are given no choice to sever connection to people who are prepared to stalk them both on-line and as in the case of some, in person.

Brenda Leyland lived fifteen miles from Rothley ... close enough for discomfort.

She had no links to the mccanns.

She did not post tweets to them.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 04:16:55 PM
She had no links to the mccanns.

She did not post tweets to them.



The only denial I am aware of is yours in your failure to accept that the compilers of the dossier and the target of those who posted the material contained within are not the offenders here.

I find it extraordinary that you so readily defend the dregs of society represented therein.

Brenda Leyland chose to join an on-line hate campaign directed against the parents of a missing child.  That was her choice and hers alone.  Madeleine McCann's parents or anyone suffering on-line abuse do not have that privilege of choice.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 04:26:30 PM
The only denial I am aware of is yours in your failure to accept that the compilers of the dossier and the target of those who posted the material contained within are not the offenders here.

I find it extraordinary that you so readily defend the dregs of society represented therein.

Brenda Leyland chose to join an on-line hate campaign directed against the parents of a missing child.  That was her choice and hers alone.  Madeleine McCann's parents or anyone suffering on-line abuse do not have that privilege of choice.

The abuse has been a 2 way street.

Which you continue to deny.

As to Brenda Leyland , without the dossier, would she be still alive ?

As to the mccanns their 'suffering' as you call it was self imposed.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 04:30:20 PM
NO CHANCE of withdrawing the claim.

There is more than enough evidence already.


What evidence is that Stephen? 

Perhaps you could post this evidence here? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 04:41:00 PM
Just a reminder for the believers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02789bx

Gerry McCann says "Clearly something needs to be done about the abuse on the internet.  I think we probably need more people charged"

and his word is god.............. &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+

But surely that is what all normal decent people think?      Wouldn't you agree that the vile trolls who forced Sarah Payne to give up in despair and close her Twitter account should be prosecuted?   I can't believe that you or anyone else would condone such cruelty to that lady.

But anyway  - how does Gerry's comment prove that he handed the dossier which came into his possession to SKY?     IMO -  His remark re 'prosecution' is far more in line with his decision to hand it to the police - in order to let them deal with it as they saw fit.

You have no proof - and you should withdraw your libellous accusation - which IMO was made purely because you desperately want to include the McCanns in your 'blame game' against people who in fact were not held responsible in any way shape or form by the Coroner for BL's demise.

You keep ignoring that fact.


 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 26, 2015, 05:04:47 PM
https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 05:06:58 PM
Who else did it.

The press lied on who handed it to the police, calling them, 'members of the public' when they are unabashed mccann supporters, and nothing else.

The mccanns handed it to the police as admitted by BHH.

The dossier compilers were one step in the chain, which ends with the mccanns.

Are you now claiming that ''unabashed  McCann supporters''  cannot be members of the public?   That makes no sense.    What about 'unabashed Amaral supporters' - are they not members of the public either?

Are you also under the impression that there was only one copy of the dossier?   Surely not - as that makes no sense either.

It's so easy to be a sceptic when anything at all which doesn't suit you is blythely dismissed as a lie.   Where is your proof that the press lied on this occasion?   And why would they anyway? 

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 05:10:56 PM
https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself

AFAIK no-one is denying that the McCanns handed the dossier which came into their possession to the police.

What is wrong with that?

The claim being disputed is that the McCanns also handed the dossier to SKY - for which there is not a scrap of proof and none has been forthcoming thus far.






Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 05:15:59 PM
The abuse has been a 2 way street.

Which you continue to deny.

As to Brenda Leyland , without the dossier, would she be still alive ?

As to the mccanns their 'suffering' as you call it was self imposed.

There is something particularly reprehensible about anonymous baiting of people whose names are in the news for good or ill using the internet as the weapon of choice.

There is no doubt that their activities are cowardly. 
It is hardly surprising that on the occasions when their actions have become so reprehensible that they appear before the courts, almost without exception it is put forward in mitigation that they are not responsible due to mental deficiency of one kind or another.

The ease with which you sidestep condemnation of the perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann is less than edifying.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 05:32:55 PM
There is something particularly reprehensible about anonymous baiting of people whose names are in the news for good or ill using the internet as the weapon of choice.

There is no doubt that their activities are cowardly. 
It is hardly surprising that on the occasions when their actions have become so reprehensible that they appear before the courts, almost without exception it is put forward in mitigation that they are not responsible due to mental deficiency of one kind or another.

The ease with which you sidestep condemnation of the perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann is less than edifying.

Sidestep condemnation  ???

The crime is unsolved.

Options are open on the perpetrator or perpetrators. As for you, you never condemn mccann supporting trolls.

Me, I have condemned both sides excesses.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 05:34:42 PM
But surely that is what all normal decent people think?      Wouldn't you agree that the vile trolls who forced Sarah Payne to give up in despair and close her Twitter account should be prosecuted?   I can't believe that you or anyone else would condone such cruelty to that lady.

But anyway  - how does Gerry's comment prove that he handed the dossier which came into his possession to SKY?     IMO -  His remark re 'prosecution' is far more in line with his decision to hand it to the police - in order to let them deal with it as they saw fit.

You have no proof - and you should withdraw your libellous accusation - which IMO was made purely because you desperately want to include the McCanns in your 'blame game' against people who in fact were not held responsible in any way shape or form by the Coroner for BL's demise.

You keep ignoring that fact.

I'm ignoring nothing.

The mccanns were handed the dossier by mccann supporters.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 05:35:58 PM
Are you now claiming that ''unabashed  McCann supporters''  cannot be members of the public?   That makes no sense.    What about 'unabashed Amaral supporters' - are they not members of the public either?

Are you also under the impression that there was only one copy of the dossier?   Surely not - as that makes no sense either.

It's so easy to be a sceptic when anything at all which doesn't suit you is blythely dismissed as a lie.   Where is your proof that the press lied on this occasion?   And why would they anyway?

The mccann supporters compiling the dossier were and remain biased.

FACT.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 05:37:17 PM
There is something particularly reprehensible about anonymous baiting of people whose names are in the news for good or ill using the internet as the weapon of choice.

There is no doubt that their activities are cowardly. 
It is hardly surprising that on the occasions when their actions have become so reprehensible that they appear before the courts, almost without exception it is put forward in mitigation that they are not responsible due to mental deficiency of one kind or another.

The ease with which you sidestep condemnation of the perpetrators of the crime against Madeleine McCann is less than edifying.

Have any charges been made from those on the dossier ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 05:48:08 PM
I'm ignoring nothing.

The mccanns were handed the dossier by mccann supporters.


So what?  Surely you are not proposing that there was only one copy of the dossier?   

And how does that prove the McCanns handed a copy of it to SKY?   It simply doesn't.  Full stop.   

Unless you can provide evidence to prove they did - then you should withdraw your libellous comment IMO.

Is there any news of the dossier that was being prepared by anonymous sceptics of the evil tweets by supporters that was going to be handed to the police?    A simple yes or no will do.

 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 06:48:20 PM
I'm ignoring nothing.

The mccanns were handed the dossier by mccann supporters.
Why are the dossier compilers cowards?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 26, 2015, 07:02:04 PM
Several weeks elapsed between the dossier being handed in and the police announcing that they would be taking no action.  What were they doing in the intervening period? 

PS: I love your replies, they are very amusing. @)(++(*

What were they doing in the intervening period?

Well, proably, and don't quote me on this, investigating real crimes, Theft, road accidents, serious fraud, sexual crimes,late night drinking crimes. OR  they all got together in a little green boat and talked endlessly about the McCann case... sending 37 detectives to seek out the trolling truth and BL's criminal behaviour... BUT, knowing a wee bit about police matters, they probably dismissed it out of hand...THEN questions were asked why didn't they do something AND THEN the reply was ..because BL has not committed a crime.. Hmm yes that would be it.

In the bigger picture were it told... It is all relative: McCanns> negligent> child missing>police case> people concerned at parents lack of child care> discussed on social media> supporters hand dossier> sky news torment and lie to BL> BL death... hmm yeah it works going back the way too. So lets look at the summary. If Maddie was cared for properly and didn't disappear BL would not have had anything to comment on!

I wonder if these dossier compilers were from the same stable as those who contacted the royal family via there web site to announce Maddies disappearance.. around the same time the Prime Minister, and pope were roped into this phenomenon. not forgetting every celebrity they could muster!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 07:14:45 PM
A brief recap.

The dossier was compiled by mccann supporters.

The mccanns supporters passed the dossier to the mccanns.

After which both the Police and Sky News received copies.

Brenda Leyland was chosen as a target, easily accessible,as she didn't really hide her identity.

She was exposed on a faulty pretext that she was being investigated. The exposure in the national media, left her unable to cope and she committed suicide, after which brunt disappeared from public view for a couple of months.

I stated she was chosen as an easy target in order to gain sympathy for the mccanns and that drastically misfired.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
What were they doing in the intervening period?

Well, proably, and don't quote me on this, investigating real crimes, Theft, road accidents, serious fraud, sexual crimes,late night drinking crimes. OR  they all got together in a little green boat and talked endlessly about the McCann case... sending 37 detectives to seek out the trolling truth and BL's criminal behaviour... BUT, knowing a wee bit about police matters, they probably dismissed it out of hand...THEN questions were asked why didn't they do something AND THEN the reply was ..because BL has not committed a crime.. Hmm yes that would be it.

In the bigger picture were it told... It is all relative: McCanns> negligent> child missing>police case> people concerned at parents lack of child care> discussed on social media> supporters hand dossier> sky news torment and lie to BL> BL death... hmm yeah it works going back the way too. So lets look at the summary. If Maddie was cared for properly and didn't disappear BL would not have had anything to comment on!

I wonder if these dossier compilers were from the same stable as those who contacted the royal family via there web site to announce Maddies disappearance.. around the same time the Prime Minister, and pope were roped into this phenomenon. not forgetting every celebrity they could muster!
@)(++(*  In other words you haven't a clue (although you seem to be claiming insider knowledge...  &%+((£ )  You seem to revel in the belief that British citizens can report what they believe to be a crime to the police and the police either ignore it, or sit around for weeks laughing at the person who reported it and then file it in the bin.  I like to think they are a little bit more professional than that, but then what do I know?  You're the one with the inside track on the coppers!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 07:21:59 PM


A brief recap.

The dossier was compiled by mccann supporters.

The mccanns supporters passed the dossier to the mccanns.

After which both the Police and Sky News received copies.

Brenda Leyland was chosen as a target, easily accessible,as she didn't really hide her identity.

She was exposed on a faulty pretext that she was being investigated. The exposure in the national media, left her unable to cope and she committed suicide, after which brunt disappeared from public view for a couple of months.



I stated she was chosen as an easy target in order to gain sympathy for the mccanns and that drastically misfired.



If you don't want to be "misinterpreted" then try following normal forum courtesy and backup your argument with appropriate cites.

You seem to be totally incapable of doing so.

 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 26, 2015, 07:32:54 PM
@)(++(*  In other words you haven't a clue (although you seem to be claiming insider knowledge...  &%+((£ )  You seem to revel in the belief that British citizens can report what they believe to be a crime to the police and the police either ignore it, or sit around for weeks laughing at the person who reported it and then file it in the bin.  I like to think they are a little bit more professional than that, but then what do I know?  You're the one with the inside track on the coppers!

I don't do revelling- I leave that to supporters who enjoyed BL being outed and her demise. I never said police ignore it- I said they make a judgement what is a criminal offence and what isn't. They decided this wasn't OK.

Insider knowledge?. Good grief no. It is public knowledge that the police only investigate reported crimes- some are dismissed as NOT BEING POLICE MATTERS.  eg

999 hello ,hello,  help me please.

Hello, which service do you require?

Hello,  My neighbour keeps putting their rubbish in my wheelie bin please send the police to speak to them"

This is not an emergency please contact your local authority in the morning.

999 hello can I have a fire engine please
 Hello caller  do you wish to report a fire?
No, My sons kite is stuck up a neighbours tree and he won't let us get access- he got this for his 7th birthday...

This is for fire emergencies only caller..

Hmm jeebus Alfie- instant decisions based on information given  happens all the time. Infact you can ask for a FOI on trivial calls to emergency services in any authority's Police services go to schools to educate people on what is emergency/criminal/civil laws.  It must be they don't like you much to not tell you these things...lol
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 07:34:30 PM
If you don't want to be "misinterpreted" then try following normal forum courtesy and backup your argument with appropriate cites.

You seem to be totally incapable of doing so.

I did.

However, you are so blindsided by support for the mccanns, for one of two options , you only feel sympathy for the mccanns.

You know as well as everyone else, Brenda was thought to be an easy target.

She was.

She ended her life in ignominy, in a hotel where she committed suicide.

As to Sky and brunt, pure s..m. 

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 08:04:39 PM
I did.

However, you are so blindsided by support for the mccanns, for one of two options , you only feel sympathy for the mccanns.

You know as well as everyone else, Brenda was thought to be an easy target.

She was.

She ended her life in ignominy, in a hotel where she committed suicide.

As to Sky and brunt, pure s..m.
Where?  You keep citing hogan howe - but have failed to back up your claim that the mccanns gave the dossier to Scotland yard. 

You really will have to do better.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 08:08:02 PM
Where?  You keep citing hogan howe - but have failed to back up your claim that the mccanns gave the dossier to Scotland yard. 

You really will have to do better.

No, I don't need to do any better.


It's the truth.


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 08:18:33 PM
No, I don't need to do any better.


It's the truth.

You reference hogan Howe but do not provide any link.  Why not?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
You reference hogan Howe but do not provide any link.  Why not?

That comment says everything.

Merely because the BBC have removed that program link, does not mean he did not say it.

It was on this forum several months ago before it disappeared from the ether.

Are you saying BHH lied ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 08:41:44 PM
That comment says everything.

Merely because the BBC have removed that program link, does not mean he did not say it.

It was on this forum several months ago before it disappeared from the ether.

Are you saying BHH lied ?

I have no idea.  You are basing your argument and your accusation of the mccanns on something that does not actually exist.   

Come back when you have found a cite.


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 26, 2015, 08:43:21 PM
The only denial I am aware of is yours in your failure to accept that the compilers of the dossier and the target of those who posted the material contained within are not the offenders here.

I find it extraordinary that you so readily defend the dregs of society represented therein.

Brenda Leyland chose to join an on-line hate campaign directed against the parents of a missing child.  That was her choice and hers alone.  Madeleine McCann's parents or anyone suffering on-line abuse do not have that privilege of choice.

A beautifully emotive term Brie. Given there is no objective definition of "dregs of society" merely the subjective "a ​group of ​people in ​society who you ​consider to be ​immoral and of no ​value"
Clue us in on the subjective definition upon which you rely in this context.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 08:59:25 PM
I have no idea.  You are basing your argument and your accusation of the mccanns on something that does not actually exist.   

Come back when you have found a cite.

Are you giving me instructions ? 
 


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 08:59:52 PM
I don't do revelling- I leave that to supporters who enjoyed BL being outed and her demise. I never said police ignore it- I said they make a judgement what is a criminal offence and what isn't. They decided this wasn't OK.

Insider knowledge?. Good grief no. It is public knowledge that the police only investigate reported crimes- some are dismissed as NOT BEING POLICE MATTERS.  eg

999 hello ,hello,  help me please.

Hello, which service do you require?

Hello,  My neighbour keeps putting their rubbish in my wheelie bin please send the police to speak to them"

This is not an emergency please contact your local authority in the morning.

999 hello can I have a fire engine please
 Hello caller  do you wish to report a fire?
No, My sons kite is stuck up a neighbours tree and he won't let us get access- he got this for his 7th birthday...

This is for fire emergencies only caller..

Hmm jeebus Alfie- instant decisions based on information given  happens all the time. Infact you can ask for a FOI on trivial calls to emergency services in any authority's Police services go to schools to educate people on what is emergency/criminal/civil laws.  It must be they don't like you much to not tell you these things...lol
The police didn't make an instant decision that they were not going to prosecute though did they?  The had the dossier for months before announcing that they would not be pursuing it any further.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 09:08:32 PM
Are you giving me instructions ? 
 

Of course not.

In post 656 you claimed that you have provided cites to backup your claims.

You haven't even provided a cite to this Hogan howe "interview" that you claim supports your argument.

So you are resorting to fibs, Stephen. 

But if accusing people with no evidence floats your boat, fair enough.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 09:25:08 PM
Of course not.

In post 656 you claimed that you have provided cites to backup your claims.

You haven't even provided a cite to this Hogan howe "interview" that you claim supports your argument.

So you are resorting to fibs, Stephen. 

But if accusing people with no evidence floats your boat, fair enough.

It is an established fact that BHH told BBC's Eddie Nestor on the programme Drivetime in Oct 2014 that the Mccanns gave this "dossier" to SY. Stephen posted a link to the programme. Sometimes programmes are left to be rewatched or relistened to for years after, sometimes they are taken off a few weeks later. The link was correct though now not available.

Pathfinder, in post 639 ,posted a partial recording of it. Have a listen. it's all there.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 09:30:51 PM
Of course not.

In post 656 you claimed that you have provided cites to backup your claims.

You haven't even provided a cite to this Hogan howe "interview" that you claim supports your argument.

So you are resorting to fibs, Stephen. 

But if accusing people with no evidence floats your boat, fair enough.

Why are you lying ?


It has reported many times in this interview BHH said the mccanns handed the dossier to the police.

It seems you have no grasp on reality  whatsoever.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 09:33:59 PM
It is an established fact that BHH told BBC's Eddie Nestor on the programme Drivetime in Oct 2014 that the Mccanns gave this "dossier" to SY. Stephen posted a link to the programme. Sometimes programmes are left to be rewatched or relistened to for years after, sometimes they are taken off a few weeks later. The link was correct though now not available.

Pathfinder, in post 639 ,posted a partial recording of it. Have a listen. it's all there.

jp knows that full well, but is now trying to perpetuate a lie that it never happened.

This isn't the first time this has happened either with a mccann supporter and it won't be the last.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 09:42:55 PM
It is an established fact that BHH told BBC's Eddie Nestor on the programme Drivetime in Oct 2014 that the Mccanns gave this "dossier" to SY. Stephen posted a link to the programme. Sometimes programmes are left to be rewatched or relistened to for years after, sometimes they are taken off a few weeks later. The link was correct though now not available.

Pathfinder, in post 639 ,posted a partial recording of it. Have a listen. it's all there.

Thank you mercury.  Very interesting.  Its a shame Stephen chose to post a non existent link.

And nothing to support his claims that the McCanns gave the dossier to Sky.

However, even more interesting - At around 1 minute to 1 minute 20,Hogan Howe refers to the " file handed to Leicester Police, where the person who was trolling, who was abusing may well have been.

So was Hogan Howe confirming that Brenda Leyland was trolling and abusing?  It seems so.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself

Hat tip to Pathfinder.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 09:47:31 PM
jp knows that full well, but is now trying to perpetuate a lie that it never happened.

This isn't the first time this has happened either.

A simple google on the main keywords will have brought up the relevant part of the transcript anyway or a search on searchable forums and blogs.

It does get tedious and when links don't work anymore or have gone totally but instead of giving the benefit of the doubt one is labelled a liar. I find that so unnecessary.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 09:48:00 PM
Thank you mercury.  Very interesting.  Its a shame Stephen chose to post a non existent link.

And nothing to support his claims that the McCanns gave the dossier to Sky.

However, even more interesting - At around 1 minute to 1 minute 20,Hogan Howe refers to the " file handed to Leicester Police, where the person who was trolling, who was abusing may well have been.

So was Hogan Howe confirming that Brenda Leyland was trolling and abusing?  It seems so.

So

You are bending the truth.

I gave a link which existed, in good faith.

You it seems inhabit a fantasy land.

Brenda was not charged with any crime and she committed no criminal offense.

As to my link, it was pasted on this forum before, and it was met with denial.

One poster stated it had been 'edited'.

Yet another lie.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
A beautifully emotive term Brie. Given there is no objective definition of "dregs of society" merely the subjective "a ​group of ​people in ​society who you ​consider to be ​immoral and of no ​value"
Clue us in on the subjective definition upon which you rely in this context.
Pointless waffle .... and time-wasting. 

Everyone knows what is meant by the term "dregs of society".

Tis a common term
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 09:58:48 PM
Thank you mercury.  Very interesting.  Its a shame Stephen chose to post a non existent link.

And nothing to support his claims that the McCanns gave the dossier to Sky.

However, even more interesting - At around 1 minute to 1 minute 20,Hogan Howe refers to the " file handed to Leicester Police, where the person who was trolling, who was abusing may well have been.

So was Hogan Howe confirming that Brenda Leyland was trolling and abusing?  It seems so.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself

Hat tip to Pathfinder.

The link Stephen posted was existent alright, and one wouldn't notice the recording wasn't available by looking at the screen where it said, "listen now" right by the headline. In any case.....

BHH said Brenda "may well have been", he didn't say "she was" and even if she was, I think he has bigger issues to worry about as he confirms in that interview, that, online abuse, arguing and defamation are civil matters, not criminal offences, and something the police haven't the resources or remit to tackle, their interest in ths area only being in matters of racism, death threats and the like.

As for who approached Sky News, I have no idea, probably these "dossier people" who wanted their pound of flesh and got it! Bet it left a very bitter taste in their mouths. Whether the Mccanns facilitated any part of it or if it was all Sky and the oh so moral vigilante ones, who knows. Someone died straight after this...you have to be deaf dumb and blind to NOT see any connection.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
The link Stephen posted was existent alright, and one wouldn't notice the recording wasn't available by looking at the screen where it said, "listen now" right by the headline. In any case.....

BHH said Brenda "may well have been", he didn't say "she was" and even if she was, I think he has bigger issues to worry about as he confirms in that interview, that, online abuse, arguing and defamation are civil matters, not criminal offences, and something the police haven't the resources or remit to tackle, their interest in ths area only being in matters of racism, death threats and the like.

As for who approached Sky News, I have no idea, probably these "dossier people" who wanted their pound of flesh and got it! Bet it left a very bitter taste in their mouths. Whether the Mccanns facilitated any part of it or if it was all Sky and the oh so moral vigilante ones, who knows. Someone died straight after this...you have to be deaf dumb and blind to NOT see any connection.




You are bending the truth.

I gave a link which existed, in good faith.

You it seems inhabit a fantasy land.

Brenda was not charged with any crime and she committed no criminal offense.

As to my link, it was pasted on this forum before, and it was met with denial.

One poster stated it had been 'edited'.

Yet another lie.

Fair enough. Maybe check before you post non working links?

Hogan Howe confirms "Trolling and Abuse".

Who knows -if Brenda Leyland had not committed suicide she might have been charged.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 10:02:11 PM
You are bending the truth.

I gave a link which existed, in good faith.

You it seems inhabit a fantasy land.

Brenda was not charged with any crime and she committed no criminal offense.

As to my link, it was pasted on this forum before, and it was met with denial.

One poster stated it had been 'edited'.

Yet another lie.

Edited!

 @)(++(*

I won't ask who!

Things are always mistranslated, misunderstood, edited, planted, doctored,  in this case.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 26, 2015, 10:03:43 PM
Pointless waffle .... and time-wasting. 

Everyone knows what is meant by the term "dregs of society".

Tis a common term

A straight forward question and your contribution does not answer it.
Take centre stage and tell us what it means then Sadie.
And as for time wasting people in glass houses should not lob rocks.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 10:04:49 PM
Fair enough. Maybe check before you post non working links?

Hogan Howe confirms "Trolling and Abuse".

Who knows -if Brenda Leyland had not committed suicide she might have been charged.

Who knows that if sky and brunt hadn't taken the law into their own hands and became nothing more than mccann supporting vigilantes, she wouldn't have committed suicide.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 10:05:22 PM
The link Stephen posted was existent alright, and one wouldn't notice the recording wasn't available by looking at the screen where it said, "listen now" right by the headline. In any case.....

BHH said Brenda "may well have been", he didn't say "she was" and even if she was, I think he has bigger issues to worry about as he confirms in that interview, that, online abuse, arguing and defamation are civil matters, not criminal offences, and something the police haven't the resources or remit to tackle, their interest in ths area only being in matters of racism, death threats and the like.

As for who approached Sky News, I have no idea, probably these "dossier people" who wanted their pound of flesh and got it! Bet it left a very bitter taste in their mouths. Whether the Mccanns facilitated any part of it or if it was all Sky and the oh so moral vigilante ones, who knows. Someone died straight after this...you have to be deaf dumb and blind to NOT see any connection.

Context Mercury - the "may well have been" referred to location and the reason why it was referred to Leicester police.

If this interview is seen as evidence that the McCann family gave the dossier to SY, then it must be taken as evidence that BL was "abusing and trolling".  You and Stephen cannot have it both ways. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 10:07:49 PM
Context Mercury - the "may well have been" referred to location and the reason why it was referred to Leicester police.

If this interview is seen as evidence that the McCann family gave the dossier to SY, then it must be taken as evidence that BL was "abusing and trolling".  You and Stephen cannot have it both ways.

Give me a minute or so to go listen
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 10:08:50 PM
Has Stephen explained yet why the dossier compilers are cowards, in his view?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 10:12:06 PM
A straight forward question and your contribution does not answer it.
Take centre stage and tell us what it means then Sadie.
And as for time wasting people in glass houses should not lob rocks.
Dregs of society = people behaving without moral or scruple, eg: those that troll victims of crime and their families, or who gain pleasure from spreading myths, lies and damaging propaganda about them online or in the form of pamphlets, videos etc.  Will that do?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 26, 2015, 10:22:14 PM
Has Stephen explained yet why the dossier compilers are cowards, in his view?



They exposed her and gave other peoples I.D.'s.

Whilst trying to shield their own I.D.'s.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 10:25:43 PM
Context Mercury - the "may well have been" referred to location and the reason why it was referred to Leicester police.

If this interview is seen as evidence that the McCann family gave the dossier to SY, then it must be taken as evidence that BL was "abusing and trolling".  You and Stephen cannot have it both ways.

https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself

Ok, I have listened to it and all he says is that Brenda Leyland may well have been trolling, not that she was. (Though BHH has admitted in the past he doesn't really know what trolling is). Context JP! He says around the issue, that it is not a police issue, it is not a criminal offence on the Internet to be abusive to others per se. Brenda Leyland did not threaten the Mccanns did she? So why she was picked on just for disliking them and making some horrid remarks about them which lead to her details being ferreted out of Facebook or wherever, no doubt by the  "dossier people" which lead the on the moral high horse society to give those details to Sky News which lead to her face and house being splashed all over Sky news every half an hour one day last year, which Sky news defended with "well we haven't actually named her" (as if all her neighbours and local community wouldn't know who she was) which lead to her suicide is beyond me.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 26, 2015, 10:29:03 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AudioBoom

Maybe I am tired and not understanding, but can peeps post what they like on Audio boom ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 10:40:20 PM


They exposed her and gave other peoples I.D.'s.

Whilst trying to shield their own I.D.'s.
what is cowardly about reporting what you believe to be a crime?  is it sensible to publicly announce your name to the people who you are reporting to the police?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 26, 2015, 10:47:15 PM
https://audioboom.com/boos/2544211-bernard-hogan-howe-confirms-it-was-the-mccann-s-who-gave-police-the-dossier-he-also-mentions-murder-in-ref-to-madeleine-but-corrects-himself

Ok, I have listened to it and all he says is that Brenda Leyland may well have been trolling, not that she was. (Though BHH has admitted in the past he doesn't really know what trolling is). Context JP! He says around the issue, that it is not a police issue, it is not a criminal offence on the Internet to be abusive to others per se. Brenda Leyland did not threaten the Mccanns did she? So why she was picked on just for disliking them and making some horrid remarks about them which lead to her details being ferreted out of Facebook or wherever, no doubt by the  "dossier people" which lead the on the moral high horse society to give those details to Sky News which lead to her face and house being splashed all over Sky news every half an hour one day last year, which Sky news defended with "well we haven't actually named her" (as if all her neighbours and local community wouldn't know who she was) which lead to her suicide is beyond me.

The actual excerpt from 51 seconds onwards says, verbatim - "The file was handed to that team and  we were liasing with Leicestershire police which is where the McCann family live, and sadly as it turned out possibly  the person who was trolling and abusing, er, people, may well have been.  The file was in the process of being considered partly by the met,partly by Leicestershire but was likely to have been dealt with by Leicestershire police not by the met"

Context - Hogan Howe confirms that Leyland was trolling and abusing, and may well have been living in the Leicester area also.

If you are going to take the bit about the handing over of the dossier by the family as authoratative then you must logically do the same for his assertion that BL was trolling and abusing. 

   
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 10:58:04 PM
The actual excerpt from 51 seconds onwards says, verbatim - "The file was handed to that team and  we were liasing with Leicestershire police which is where the McCann family live, and sadly as it turned out possibly  the person who was trolling and abusing, er, people, may well have been.  The file was in the process of being considered partly by the met,partly by Leicestershire but was likely to have been dealt with by Leicestershire police not by the met"

Context - Hogan Howe confirms that Leyland was trolling and abusing, and may well have been living in the Leicester area also.

If you are going to take the bit about the handing over of the dossier by the family as authoratative then you must logically do the same for his assertion that BL was trolling and abusing. 

   

If it pleases you,but it makes no difference to anything much and I'd rather not discuss the irrelevant minutiae of this all night JP!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 26, 2015, 11:08:40 PM
A straight forward question and your contribution does not answer it.
Take centre stage and tell us what it means then Sadie.
And as for time wasting people in glass houses should not lob rocks.

Tiresome ... totally pointless ... and very much off topic, unless you consider those who who troll the internet in an effort to cause as much distress as they can are not the dregs of society, as may very well be your opinion for all anyone knows.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:11:00 PM
what is cowardly about reporting what you believe to be a crime?  is it sensible to publicly announce your name to the people who you are reporting to the police?

Stephen said it was cowardly of the "dossier people" to OUT someone and cause them to be splashed all over the news all day every half an hour whilst asking themselves to be kept anonymous. If they were so "righteous" and stood for all that is good why hide? After all, that's the accusation you have levelled at "anonymous" handles isn't it?? My my, they would have had the backing of Sky News too!

You MUST have understood that is what Stephen meant instead of twisting his comments to mean it was cowardly to report alledged crimes to the police!!



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 26, 2015, 11:18:42 PM
Stephen said it was cowardly of the "dossier people" to OUT someone and cause them to be splashed all over the news all day every half an hour whilst asking themselves to be kept anonymous. If they were so "righteous" and stood for all that is good why hide? After all, that's the accusation you have levelled at "anonymous" handles isn't it?? My my, they would have had the backing of Sky News too!

You MUST have understood that is what Stephen meant instead of twisting his comments to mean it was cowardly to report alledged crimes to the police!!

What evidence to you have that the dossier compilers asked to remain anonymous and did anything other than pass their complaint to the police?
BTW How do you think the poor nanny, who was being targeted by the sceptic forum, felt when her livelihood was being threatened by people who merely thought they knew her online ID?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:24:43 PM
the dregs of society/humanity
› a ​group of ​people in ​society who you ​consider to be ​immoraland of no ​value:
People ​tend to ​regard ​drug ​addicts as the dregs of ​society.

More words related to dregs of society
riffraff
noun. rabble
commonality
commoners
dregs of society
gang
gathering
hoi polloi
lower class
mob


I think some of the extremists (oh and some of the non so extreme surprise)  in the  McCann supporters club have used all of the above plus plenty more when attacking legitimate questioners on a range of issues ....I dont think the thesaurus caters for some of their words and phrases
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 11:26:37 PM
Stephen said it was cowardly of the "dossier people" to OUT someone and cause them to be splashed all over the news all day every half an hour whilst asking themselves to be kept anonymous. If they were so "righteous" and stood for all that is good why hide? After all, that's the accusation you have levelled at "anonymous" handles isn't it?? My my, they would have had the backing of Sky News too!

You MUST have understood that is what Stephen meant instead of twisting his comments to mean it was cowardly to report alledged crimes to the police!! Unless you are slow which you are not, well, I'm not sure now tbh
Do you mind??  I was asking Stephen not you.  Stephen is under the impression that the McCanns handed the dossier to Sky, not the dossier compilers.  That's why I asked him the question, so kindly DON'T speak for him, he's a big boy now.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:30:15 PM
What evidence to you have that the dossier compilers asked to remain anonymous and did anything other than pass their complaint to the police?
BTW How do you think the poor nanny, who was being targeted by the sceptic forum, felt when her livelihood was being threatened by people who merely thought they knew her online ID?

Sky news bulletin every half hour featuring Brenda Leyland also featured the "dossier people" who SKY said wanted to remain anonymous so THAT is the evidence, do you want a video link? If I don't provide one will you call me a liar?
 @)(++(*

I don't know anything about any nanny episode
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 11:31:49 PM
Sky news bulletin every half hour featuring Brenda Leyland also featured the "dossier people" who SKY said wanted to remain anonymous so THAT is the evidence, do you want a video link? If I don't provide one will you call me a liar?
 @)(++(*

I don't know anything about any nanny episode
How convenient.  It's been mentioned on here often enough. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 26, 2015, 11:33:08 PM
Why are you lying ?


It has reported many times in this interview BHH said the mccanns handed the dossier to the police.

It seems you have no grasp on reality  whatsoever.


 AFAIK  no-one is disputing that the McCanns gave the dossier which came into their possession to the police.   

It is your accusation that it was the McCanns who were the people who gave the dossier to SKY which I am disputing.

These are your words:-

''The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police''.
-------------
So far you have not provided a single shred of evidence to prove that the McCanns were in any way involved in handing the dossier to SKY.      Therefore you should withdraw your claim - which IMO you are making because you want  to implicate the McCanns in BL's death so that you can then point the finger of blame at them.

Nasty.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:38:25 PM
How convenient.  It's been mentioned on here often enough.

Nothing "convenient " at all, I've not read everything on this forum, thanks for the example of not giving the benefit of the doubt
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:42:03 PM
Do you mind??  I was asking Stephen not you. 

No I don't mind, only you asked the same question about 10 times today and not always to anyone in particular just rabbiting  on and on when you knew the answer anyway which makes you a disingenuous poster  and so thought I would answer to out you out of your misery

Cheers
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:43:22 PM
Here you go Misty, watch the show that ended in an avoidable suicide, shame on all of them


http://news.sky.com/video/1346113/special-report-mccann-trolls

AND your PROOF that the dossier compilers wanted to remain anonymous!!!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 26, 2015, 11:46:40 PM
No I don't mind, only you asked the same question about 10 times today and not always to anyone in particular just rabbiting  on and on when you knew the answer anyway which makes you a disingenuous poster  and so thought I would answer to out you out of your misery

Cheers
Stephen seldom answers a straight question with a straight answer, hence the need to continually pose the same question, in the hope he will eventually change the habit of a lifetime and actually reply without deflecting and wriggling.

Incidentally what you and he seem to have forgotten is that The dossier did not contain Brenda's name or details at all - Brunt found those out for himself.  So, once again - why were the dossier compilers cowards Stephen?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 26, 2015, 11:51:02 PM
Stephen seldom answers a straight question with a straight answer, hence the need to continually pose the same question, in the hope he will eventually change the habit of a lifetime and actually reply without deflecting and wriggling.

Incidentally what you and he seem to have forgotten is that The dossier did not contain Brenda's name or details at all - Brunt found those out for himself.  So, once again - why were the dossier compilers cowards Stephen?

Brunt found these out? Got anything to back that up?

You're once again question  is getting tedious...you hVe been told why they are By ME
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 27, 2015, 12:08:52 AM
Here you go Misty, watch the show that ended in an avoidable suicide, shame on all of them


http://news.sky.com/video/1346113/special-report-mccann-trolls

AND your PROOF that the dossier compilers wanted to remain anonymous!!!

Did the compiler(s) ask for anonymity if they approached Sky or did Sky ask them if they wanted anonymity when Sky approached them?
It is clear you actually know nothing about BL or her tweets so perhaps you should refrain from passing judgement on people who were acting in the interest of innocent victims of online bullying.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 27, 2015, 12:29:54 AM
Did the compiler(s) ask for anonymity if they approached Sky or did Sky ask them if they wanted anonymity when Sky approached them?
It is clear you actually know nothing about BL or her tweets so perhaps you should refrain from passing judgement on people who were acting in the interest of innocent victims of online bullying.

They wanted to remain anonymous either way by your apologist argument....cowards full and through and a woman's death on their hands

Don't tell me to refrain from anything...the fact that you support these cowardly creatures is enough for me to put you on ignore, you disgust me condoning their actions which lead to suicide...have any of them shown remorse??? Brenda Leyland did not deserve to die for tweeting she couldn't stand the Mccanns, that's all she did, Do tell the forum but I won't be listening
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 27, 2015, 12:41:02 AM
Perhaps it's time that both sides now let Brenda Leyland rest in peace. If she was guilty of a great sin then it has been amply paid for and if she was the victim of a witchunt then we can't by constantly raking over the episode make the hunters, if they have not felt it already, feel guilty.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 27, 2015, 12:41:29 AM

 AFAIK  no-one is disputing that the McCanns gave the dossier which came into their possession to the police.   

It is your accusation that it was the McCanns who were the people who gave the dossier to SKY which I am disputing.

These are your words:-

''The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police''.
-------------
So far you have not provided a single shred of evidence to prove that the McCanns were in any way involved in handing the dossier to SKY.      Therefore you should withdraw your claim - which IMO you are making because you want  to implicate the McCanns in BL's death so that you can then point the finger of blame at them.

Nasty.

Seeing as you are so vehement in protecting the idea that the Mccanns didn't give the dossier to sky (inference is how horrible an accusation) are you in effect agreeing it was "nasty" for anyone else to do so???


Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 27, 2015, 12:47:17 AM
Perhaps it's time that both sides now let Brenda Leyland rest in peace. If she was guilty of a great sin then it has been amply paid for and if she was the victim of a witchunt then we can't by constantly raking over the episode make the hunters, if they have not felt it already, feel guilty.

I think making them feel guilty for their deliberate and conscious actions whilst alive and gloating is fair, don't you?
I suppose none of them foresaw a suicide but they foresaw a whole lot of grief...for....someone who didn't like the Mccanns or believed their story and said something like when asked how long should the Mccanns suffer, to which she answered for the rest of their miserable lives...hardly a hanging offence hey?

Logging off in total disgust and condemnation of anyone who thinks Brenda Leyland deserved to die for tweeting, shame on all of them and I for one their karma which surely will come to bite their arises for sure for sure as the Irish say for sure

But fine FL I won't post on this sorry issue and the sorry sad little people around it again


~~~~~RIp~~~~~Brenda
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 27, 2015, 01:04:15 AM
I think making them feel guilty for their deliberate and conscious actions whilst alive and gloating is fair, don't you?
I suppose none of them foresaw a suicide but they foresaw a whole lot of grief...for....someone who didn't like the Mccanns or believed their story and said something like when asked how long should the Mccanns suffer, to which she answered for the rest of their miserable lives...hardly a hanging offence hey?

Logging off in total disgust and condemnation of anyone who thinks Brenda Leyland deserved to die for tweeting, shame on all of them and I for one their karma which surely will come to bite their arises for sure for sure as the Irish say for sure

But fine FL I won't post on this sorry issue and the sorry sad little people around it again

That's the thing Mercury, they don't feel guilt and will never take responsibility for playing a part in Brenda's suicide and there comes a point when the only people who are being affected by raking over the circumstances of her death  are her family and friends and haven't they been hurt enough already by this ?

They say what goes around comes around and we can but hope but until then by discussing her tragic suicide all we are doing is giving supporters the opportunity to malign her all over again and be honest if it was you're relative would you want that because I know I wouldn't.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 07:28:29 AM
That's the thing Mercury, they don't feel guilt and will never take responsibility for playing a part in Brenda's suicide and there comes a point when the only people who are being affected by raking over the circumstances of her death  are her family and friends and haven't they been hurt enough already by this ?

They say what goes around comes around and we can but hope but until then by discussing her tragic suicide all we are doing is giving supporters the opportunity to malign her all over again and be honest if it was you're relative would you want that because I know I wouldn't.

Brenda had attempted suicide before and had mental illness issues....no one is to blame for her suicide. perhaps her family should have given her more support.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 08:07:26 AM
Brunt found these out? Got anything to back that up?

You're once again question  is getting tedious...you hVe been told why they are By ME
yes, he said so at the inquest, will that do?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 08:09:05 AM
Perhaps it's time that both sides now let Brenda Leyland rest in peace. If she was guilty of a great sin then it has been amply paid for and if she was the victim of a witchunt then we can't by constantly raking over the episode make the hunters, if they have not felt it already, feel guilty.
How about letting the McCanns "rest in peace", or do you consider that they haven't been hounded nearly enough? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 08:10:22 AM
That's the thing Mercury, they don't feel guilt and will never take responsibility for playing a part in Brenda's suicide and there comes a point when the only people who are being affected by raking over the circumstances of her death  are her family and friends and haven't they been hurt enough already by this ?

They say what goes around comes around and we can but hope but until then by discussing her tragic suicide all we are doing is giving supporters the opportunity to malign her all over again and be honest if it was you're relative would you want that because I know I wouldn't.
*irony klaxon* x 10
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 08:13:53 AM
What this argument seems to boil down to is: suicide cancels out all your other actions when you were alive and puts you above criticism.   Does this apply to Kate and Gerry though?  If they topped themselves would that finally put them beyond criticism?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 09:08:26 AM
Dregs of society = people behaving without moral or scruple, eg: those that troll victims of crime and their families, or who gain pleasure from spreading myths, lies and damaging propaganda about them online or in the form of pamphlets, videos etc.  Will that do?


You forgot to add in parents who go out to enjoy themselves leaving their children alone at night in a strange country- ignoring their cries...commoners-low life types? Yes? No?  or does that just apply to people who dwell in council houses?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 09:19:52 AM
The actual excerpt from 51 seconds onwards says, verbatim - "The file was handed to that team and  we were liasing with Leicestershire police which is where the McCann family live, and sadly as it turned out possibly  the person who was trolling and abusing, er, people, may well have been.  The file was in the process of being considered partly by the met,partly by Leicestershire but was likely to have been dealt with by Leicestershire police not by the met"

Context - Hogan Howe confirms that Leyland was trolling and abusing, and may well have been living in the Leicester area also.

If you are going to take the bit about the handing over of the dossier by the family as authoratative then you must logically do the same for his assertion that BL was trolling and abusing. 

   

OK Alfie this answers your question....(in red font) there was no immediate rushing to make arrests due to a crime being commited against the McCanns.. They did liase to see who would deal with it.. no one dealt with it!  but being very angry and wanting blood - the police ignored it- no case to answer- someone handed it to SKY..roopie murdooks media outlet. ( well used by McCANNS).

Oh and just a wee thing about reporting crime... if It comes to court everyone has the right to face their accuser...hmm cool eh? no annonymity here guv.

JP...The word was MAY  not has in Howes statement. he did let a we murder word drop into his speech as well- not the most articulate of people to do TV interviews eh?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 27, 2015, 09:25:08 AM
Seeing as you are so vehement in protecting the idea that the Mccanns didn't give the dossier to sky (inference is how horrible an accusation) are you in effect agreeing it was "nasty" for anyone else to do so???

You have missed the point mercury.  As far as I am concerned there are enough lies being told about the McCanns without more people adding to them.   There is no evidence for the claim Stephen made, which IMO was an attempt to turn BL's suicide into yet another stick to beat the McCanns with.  That is what I found to be nasty.

Personally I agree with the Coroner that no-one was guilty of any wrongdoing in the circumstances which led up to BL's demise -  and therefore my answer to your question would be 'No'.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 09:37:30 AM

 AFAIK  no-one is disputing that the McCanns gave the dossier which came into their possession to the police.   

It is your accusation that it was the McCanns who were the people who gave the dossier to SKY which I am disputing.

These are your words:-

''The dossier compilers and the mccanns had no need to give the dossier to sky news, just the police''.
-------------
So far you have not provided a single shred of evidence to prove that the McCanns were in any way involved in handing the dossier to SKY.      Therefore you should withdraw your claim - which IMO you are making because you want  to implicate the McCanns in BL's death so that you can then point the finger of blame at them.

Nasty.

The NASTY, as you call it derives from those who compiled the dossier and passed it to the mccanns.

You can attack me all you wish, but the trail exists no matter how much you deny it.

DOSSIER COMPILERS-----------MCCANNS--------------POLICE and SKY.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 09:39:22 AM
You have missed the point mercury.  As far as I am concerned there are enough lies being told about the McCanns without more people adding to them.   There is no evidence for the claim Stephen made, which IMO was an attempt to turn BL's suicide into yet another stick to beat the McCanns with.  That is what I found to be nasty.

Personally I agree with the Coroner that no-one was guilty of any wrongdoing in the circumstances which led up to BL's demise -  and therefore my answer to your question would be 'No'.

Of course you agree, you are hardly likely to say anything else are you.

As to the mccanns, can you care to remind us what they admitted at the Leverson Inquiry ?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 27, 2015, 09:42:45 AM
Tiresome ... totally pointless ... and very much off topic, unless you consider those who who troll the internet in an effort to cause as much distress as they can are not the dregs of society, as may very well be your opinion for all anyone knows.

You have failed to answer the question. Perhaps you were bright enough to see where it was going and that would have been an embarrassment to you?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 09:47:56 AM
OK Alfie this answers your question....(in red font) there was no immediate rushing to make arrests due to a crime being commited against the McCanns.. They did liase to see who would deal with it.. no one dealt with it!  but being very angry and wanting blood - the police ignored it- no case to answer- someone handed it to SKY..roopie murdooks media outlet. ( well used by McCANNS).

Oh and just a wee thing about reporting crime... if It comes to court everyone has the right to face their accuser...hmm cool eh? no annonymity here guv.

JP...The word was MAY  not has in Howes statement. he did let a we murder word drop into his speech as well- not the most articulate of people to do TV interviews eh?

Or even radio.

The context is that the abuser "may well have been living in the Leicester area".

I think you need to revise your understanding of criminal law.  Who would the accuser be in a case such as this? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 09:49:54 AM
The NASTY, as you call it derives from those who compiled the dossier and passed it to the mccanns.

You can attack me all you wish, but the trail exists no matter how much you deny it.

DOSSIER COMPILERS-----------MCCANNS--------------POLICE and SKY.

That is your guess.  Where is the evidence, Stephen?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 27, 2015, 09:51:32 AM
Dregs of society = people behaving without moral or scruple, eg: those that troll victims of crime and their families, or who gain pleasure from spreading myths, lies and damaging propaganda about them online or in the form of pamphlets, videos etc.  Will that do?

No! it merely tells me your subjective opinion. I asked for Brietta's subjective opinion.
Or are you speaking for her now?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 27, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
The NASTY, as you call it derives from those who compiled the dossier and passed it to the mccanns.

You can attack me all you wish, but the trail exists no matter how much you deny it.

DOSSIER COMPILERS-----------MCCANNS--------------POLICE and SKY.

Geddit.

I disagree Stephen.   IMO it is the vile trolls who provided 67 pages of venom, poisonous lies, threats and sheer cruelty - (all directed at one family)  who have earned the 'nasty' title.     If it wasn't for them - there would be no dossier.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 09:58:49 AM
Or even radio.

The context is that the abuser "may well have been living in the Leicester area".

I think you need to revise your understanding of criminal law.  Who would the accuser be in a case such as this?

If you report a crime- *I call the police and tell them you are attacking someone- they will arive and asertain if indeed a crime has been commited- the person who reorted it would thus become a witness ( along with any other people who witnessed it). All would be summond to court. Names named and all that jazz.

BL's twitters were public. The police found this not to be a crime. That should have been an end to the matter.  To wrongfully accuse someone of a crime is wrong... ask any McCann supporter!...oh um diddums.

POT AND KETTLES
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 10:03:25 AM
I disagree Stephen.   IMO it is the vile trolls who provided 67 pages of venom, poisonous lies, threats and sheer cruelty - (all directed at one family)  who have earned the 'nasty' title.     If it wasn't for them - there would be no dossier.

i AGREE such nasty people should be charged with harrassment- IF that is what they have been doing.

So, If BL was doing all these things you claim, why was she not charged- could it be because she committed no crime?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2015, 10:04:11 AM
If you report a crime- *I call the police and tell them you are attacking someone- they will arive and asertain if indeed a crime has been commited- the person who reorted it would thus become a witness ( along with any other people who witnessed it). All would be summond to court. Names named and all that jazz.

BL's twitters were public. The police found this not to be a crime. That should have been an end to the matter.  To wrongfully accuse someone of a crime is wrong... ask any McCann supporter!...oh um diddums.

POT AND KETTLES

If indeed The Dossier Compilers accused anyone of a crime.

I think they were just very concerned, as I have been on occasions.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2015, 10:05:46 AM
i AGREE such nasty people should be charged with harrassment- IF that is what they have been doing.

So, If BL was doing all these things you claim, why was she not charged- could it be because she committed no crime?

I think she might have already been dead by the time The Police pronounced.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Benice on August 27, 2015, 10:10:51 AM
Of course you agree, you are hardly likely to say anything else are you.

As to the mccanns, can you care to remind us what they admitted at the Leverson Inquiry ?

LOL You appear to be suggesting there is something wrong with people who acknowledge the Coroner's unbiased assessments - and is the one person who is qualified to make them.   

You obviously think you know better than the Coroner, but then you also think you know better than the police forces of two countries, so no surprise there.

I have no idea what your comment re Levesons is about -except that it appears to be off topic.  If it is related to internet trolls then perhaps you can enlighten me.



 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:12:18 AM
I disagree Stephen.   IMO it is the vile trolls who provided 67 pages of venom, poisonous lies, threats and sheer cruelty - (all directed at one family)  who have earned the 'nasty' title.     If it wasn't for them - there would be no dossier.

Now you've walked right into that one.

Take a look at the following link and the tweets from certain parties attacking/threatening Brenda Leyland before she committed suicide.

I wonder if these were shown at the inquest ?


http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html


NASTY DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE.


and there are more of course, porior to her death
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:16:26 AM
LOL You appear to be suggesting there is something wrong with people who acknowledge the Coroner's unbiased assessments - and is the one person who is qualified to make them.   

You obviously think you know better than the Coroner, but then you also think you know better than the police forces of two countries, so no surprise there.

I have no idea what your comment re Levesons is about -except that it appears to be off topic.  If it is related to internet trolls then perhaps you can enlighten me.



 

I judge by results.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:20:29 AM
That is your guess.  Where is the evidence, Stephen?

After your behaviour yesterday and the abusive personal comments which have been reported, there is nothing to say to you.

I won't sink to your depths and comment on work or the people you work with.

That is the forte of mccann supporters.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 10:21:37 AM
Now you've walked right into that one.

Take a look at the following link and the tweets from certain parties attacking/threatening Brenda Leyland before she committed suicide.

I wonder if these were shown at the inquest ?


http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html


NASTY DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE.


and there are more of course, porior to her death


Do you really think that "dirndleass" (the author of those tweets) was a "McCann Supporter"?

 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 10:22:01 AM
If indeed The Dossier Compilers accused anyone of a crime.

I think they were just very concerned, as I have been on occasions.

The same could be said about those who are concerned about what happened to little MADDIE- her parents behaviour etc.

And Elle, they have lawyers at hand who could have told them how to deal with it surely. I find it strange that they have never sued anyone in this country and had it taken it to court ... would be interesting.


I never have and never will support ,condone anyone who harasses, threatens people. Some people including the McCanns may have been offended by BL's behaviour. Ignoring it would be a good start.

Those who compiled the dossier and picked on BL are disgusting cretins IMO. THE  perceived BULLIED BECOMING THE BULLY DOES NOT EQUATE.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
The NASTY, as you call it derives from those who compiled the dossier and passed it to the mccanns.

You can attack me all you wish, but the trail exists no matter how much you deny it.

DOSSIER COMPILERS-----------MCCANNS--------------POLICE and SKY.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting a suspected crime to the police. AFAIAC..Brenda brought everything onto herself
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 10:24:42 AM
The same could be said about those who are concerned about what happened to little MADDIE- her parents behaviour etc.

And Elle, they have lawyers at hand who could have told them how to deal with it surely. I find it strange that they have never sued anyone in this country and had it taken it to court ... would be interesting.


I never have and never will support ,condone anyone who harasses, threatens people. Some people including the McCanns may have been offended by BL's behaviour. Ignoring it would be a good start.

Those who compiled the dossier and picked on BL are disgusting cretins IMO. THE  perceived BULLIED BECOMING THE BULLY DOES NOT EQUATE.

If you are concerned about what happened to Maddie put your evidence together...make a dossier..and inform the police...that is teh correct thing to do.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 10:25:02 AM
After your behaviour yesterday and the abusive personal comments which have been reported, there is nothing to say to you.

I won't sink to your depths and comment on work or the people you work with.

That is the forte of mccann supporters.

"abusive personal comments"?

Asking you to provide cites for your statements, Stephen.  Which you seem completely unable to do. 

Don't worry, nobody expects you to. 8)--)) 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:26:04 AM
I disagree Stephen.   IMO it is the vile trolls who provided 67 pages of venom, poisonous lies, threats and sheer cruelty - (all directed at one family)  who have earned the 'nasty' title.     If it wasn't for them - there would be no dossier.

By the same token, but foir the mccanns behaviour, there would be no dossier.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:28:11 AM
"abusive personal comments"?

Asking you to provide cites for your statements, Stephen.  Which you seem completely unable to do. 

Don't worry, nobody expects you to. 8)--))

Look on page 44 jp.

About me and my job.

Or do you have a short memory and one blindly in adoration of the mccanns ? %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 10:28:46 AM
By the same token, but foir the mccanns behaviour, there would be no dossier.

same old..same old
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 10:30:30 AM
Brenda was  a mentally ill women who committed suicide
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2015, 10:30:43 AM
You have failed to answer the question. Perhaps you were bright enough to see where it was going and that would have been an embarrassment to you?

If I were bright enough to follow all the convolutions of your postings I would be a flaming genius three times over or a lunatic.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:32:14 AM
same old..same old

Simple fact dave.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 10:33:57 AM
If you are concerned about what happened to Maddie put your evidence together...make a dossier..and inform the police...that is teh correct thing to do.

I am sure the police have a very good idea what happened. They just can't seem to find any evidence- they just know it was reported that Maddie was and still is 'missing'.

but then you know that already...
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:36:31 AM
Brenda was  a mentally ill women who committed suicide

Now wasn't there someone connected to this case who expressed similar thoughts ? &%+((£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 10:38:50 AM
If I were bright enough to follow all the convolutions of your postings I would be a flaming genius three times over or a lunatic.

Oh Yawn look at the supporters using the whole mental illness, lunatic,looney insinuations to those who do not agree with the McCANNS VERSION OF ACCOUNTS of what happened to their daughter.

Kate McCann tried to sue Amaral for tens of thousands for her 'mental illness' because she left her daughter alone to be abducted was upset that a police officer didn't believe her story.

You couldn't make it up.. but wait.. she did!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 27, 2015, 10:43:34 AM
Fair enough. Maybe check before you post non working links?

Hogan Howe confirms "Trolling and Abuse".

Who knows -if Brenda Leyland had not committed suicide she might have been charged.


Was anyone else "charged" as a result of the dossier?

If not, your nasty remark seems to suggest that her activity was worse than others in the dossier and that she might have "got away with it"  in ending her life.



Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 10:54:02 AM

Was anyone else "charged" as a result of the dossier?

If not, your nasty remark seems to suggest that her activity was worse than others in the dossier and that she might have "got away with it"  by ending her life.

Carew, no one was charged nor would they be, this has been the crux of the matter, and the craw in supporters trees.  NO Crime was committed. Hence, the story had to be reported in SKY news. via the McCann Media machine! * friends of family*  * concerned citizen* blah blah.

This is shocking and a complete lie!

JP....shocking post.

"Fair enough. Maybe check before you post non working links?

Hogan Howe confirms "Trolling and Abuse".

"Who knows -if Brenda Leyland had not committed suicide she might have been charged."

The who knows question you pose is answerable..WE all know! BL did NOT commit a crime. End of story.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 10:54:47 AM
Look on page 44 jp.

About me and my job.

Or do you have a short memory and one blindly in adoration of the mccanns ? %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

Looked on page 44

Cant see much to object to - apart from asking for cites. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 10:57:38 AM
Looked on page 44

Cant see much to object to - apart from asking for cites.

I see it's been edited by Eleanor.

Then of course you can't remember what you typed, can you ?  8**8:/:

It merely reflected mccann supporter tactics.  8)-)))
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Simple fact dave.

the mccanns are not to blame...fact
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 10:59:28 AM
Now you've walked right into that one.

Take a look at the following link and the tweets from certain parties attacking/threatening Brenda Leyland before she committed suicide.

I wonder if these were shown at the inquest ?


http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/womens-issues/brenda-leyland-wasnt-troll-didnt-deserve-die-544755.html


NASTY DOESN'T EVEN COME CLOSE.


and there are more of course, porior to her death

Are you saying that Dirdlelass was a known McCann supporter?

Evidence please.

For example, maybe a few tweets other than the "sweepyface" ones- should not be too hard to find.   
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 11:00:24 AM
the mccanns are not to blame...fact

WRONG dave.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 11:02:40 AM
Are you saying that Dirdlelass was a known McCann supporter?

Evidence please.

Are you living in the real world ?

If you learn anything at all today, make no mistake, the mccann supporting trolls are known.

Wherever they post.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 11:05:08 AM
Are you living in the real world ?

If you learn anything at all today, make no mistake, the mccann supporting trolls are known.

Wherever they post.

The question is, and it should be simple to answer.

Was "dirndleass" a supporter of the McCanns.

Or was she simply an appalling,vile troll, who was happy to abuse anyone.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 11:06:00 AM
The question is, and it should be simple to answer.

Was "dirndleass" a supporter of the McCanns.

Or was she simply an appalling,vile troll, who was happy to abuse anyone.

Read my last post.

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 11:07:47 AM
Read my last post.

So you think Dirndleass is a fairly typical example of a McCann "supporter"?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Oh Yawn look at the supporters using the whole mental illness, lunatic,looney insinuations to those who do not agree with the McCANNS VERSION OF ACCOUNTS of what happened to their daughter.

Kate McCann tried to sue Amaral for tens of thousands for her 'mental illness' because she left her daughter alone to be abducted was upset that a police officer didn't believe her story.

You couldn't make it up.. but wait.. she did!

no one can sue someone for not believing them so you are obviously totally wrong
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 11:14:31 AM
So you think Dirndleass is a fairly typical example of a McCann "supporter"?

Well having witnessed mccann supporters 'behaviour' , certain conclusions have been made.

Mind you, there might be a few with their barrels fully occupied. 8**8:/:

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 11:18:16 AM
Well having witnessed mccann supporters 'behaviour' , certain conclusions have been made.

Mind you, there might be a few with their barrels fully occupied. 8**8:/:

Here you go Stephen.  A challenge for you.

A full list of "dirndllass" tweets.

http://greptweet.com/u/dirndllass/dirndllass.txt

Lets see those in support of the McCanns.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 27, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Here you go Stephen.  A challenge for you.

A full list of "dirndllass" tweets.

http://greptweet.com/u/dirndllass/dirndllass.txt

Lets see those in support of the McCanns.

I was talking about other mccann supporters as well.

Keep trying.

Why is it with people like you, that you cannot accept there are nutters supporting the mccanns
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 11:25:18 AM
I was talking about other mccann supporters as well.

Keep trying.

Why is it with people like you, that you cannot accept there are nutters supporting the mccanns

there are nutters supporting just about everyone but they are not representative of the general supporter
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 27, 2015, 11:36:36 AM
Thanks jp

http://greptweet.com/u/dirndllass/dirndllass.txt

OMG are there really people on the loose like this one   %#£%
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lace on August 27, 2015, 11:40:53 AM
Thanks jp

http://greptweet.com/u/dirndllass/dirndllass.txt

OMG are there really people on the loose like this one   %#£%

Unfortunately there are Sadie,   and as it has just been shown some people are eager to jump to the conclusion that because this despicable s..m bag posted tweets to BL it MUST have been a McCann supporter.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 11:41:56 AM
Thanks jp

http://greptweet.com/u/dirndllass/dirndllass.txt

OMG are there really people on the loose like this one   %#£%

Yes.

She is it seems a fairly typical example of an equal opportunities troll - happy to abuse anyone. 

Muslims, Gays, celebrities, Mormons, judges.

But it suits certain agendas to portray her a "McCann supporter".
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
No! it merely tells me your subjective opinion. I asked for Brietta's subjective opinion.
Or are you speaking for her now?
Aren't all opinions subjective?  That was MY opinion - unasked for I know, but tant pis.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 12:07:24 PM

You forgot to add in parents who go out to enjoy themselves leaving their children alone at night in a strange country- ignoring their cries...commoners-low life types? Yes? No?  or does that just apply to people who dwell in council houses?
If you wish to bracket the McCanns in with the dregs of society then that is your prerogative.  No skin off my nose, but I don't happen to agree with you.  In my opinion if they truly were the dregs then I doubt they would have bothered checking on their kids every 20-30 minutes.  In any case their actions weren't malicious, like the actions of the dregs of society Brietta was referring to. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 12:09:08 PM
OK Alfie this answers your question....(in red font) there was no immediate rushing to make arrests due to a crime being commited against the McCanns.. They did liase to see who would deal with it.. no one dealt with it!  but being very angry and wanting blood - the police ignored it- no case to answer- someone handed it to SKY..roopie murdooks media outlet. ( well used by McCANNS).

Oh and just a wee thing about reporting crime... if It comes to court everyone has the right to face their accuser...hmm cool eh? no annonymity here guv.

JP...The word was MAY  not has in Howes statement. he did let a we murder word drop into his speech as well- not the most articulate of people to do TV interviews eh?
You're wrong.  The dossier was handed to Sky months BEFORE the police wrote to the dossier compiler to say that no further action would be taken, following their investigation.  Sky reported that the investigation lasted 8 months. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 12:11:36 PM
The same could be said about those who are concerned about what happened to little MADDIE- her parents behaviour etc.

And Elle, they have lawyers at hand who could have told them how to deal with it surely. I find it strange that they have never sued anyone in this country and had it taken it to court ... would be interesting.


I never have and never will support ,condone anyone who harasses, threatens people. Some people including the McCanns may have been offended by BL's behaviour. Ignoring it would be a good start.

Those who compiled the dossier and picked on BL are disgusting cretins IMO. THE  perceived BULLIED BECOMING THE BULLY DOES NOT EQUATE.
So now the dossier compilers are disgusting cretins because they compiled a list of disgusting and cretinous tweets and gave them to the police.  What is disgusting and cretinous about that exactly?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Carew on August 27, 2015, 01:02:32 PM
Perhaps the dossier compilers could have had their work assessed  legally behind the scenes for advice as to whether or not there was any point in presenting it to the police in the first place?

Couldn`t they have ascertained at that stage through legal advice whether or not crimes had been committed without the humiliation of rejection by the police?

They might not have been given the advice they hoped for, but the presentation of their dossier to Sky News would still have been an option, so all wouldn`t have been lost.





Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 27, 2015, 01:13:50 PM
why was "sweepyface" tweeting Martin Brunt?

Anyone any idea?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2015, 01:35:31 PM
why was "sweepyface" tweeting Martin Brunt?

Anyone any idea?

In my opinion it probably flagged her up to Martin Brunt as someone who wanted to talk to him.  By all accounts their off camera meeting was amicable and did not arouse any suspicion in Brunt's mind about her fragile state.
Just the fact that she was happy enough to invite him into her home speaks volumes.

Her son, with whom she communicated after Martin Brunt's visit also failed to spot any warning indications, or he would surely have contacted someone to voice his concerns and ask them to check on his mother's welfare.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 27, 2015, 01:59:40 PM
Aren't all opinions subjective?  That was MY opinion - unasked for I know, but tant pis.


The point being there is no objective view of "dregs of society". Like neither by common law nor statute so it is what anyone wants it to be to suit a particular argument. Someone who shoves leaflets through doors and posts nasty messages on the internet is "the dregs of society" ?.

Look up "Alice's Restaurant" lyrics and the find the bit about Group W bench. It is a very humourous take on a similar issue.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
In my opinion it probably flagged her up to Martin Brunt as someone who wanted to talk to him.  By all accounts their off camera meeting was amicable and did not arouse any suspicion in Brunt's mind about her fragile state.
Just the fact that she was happy enough to invite him into her home speaks volumes.

Her son, with whom she communicated after Martin Brunt's visit also failed to spot any warning indications, or he would surely have contacted someone to voice his concerns and ask them to check on his mother's welfare.

In Red font: ALL accounts? where would ALL these accounts come from? Oh are you referring to Martin Brunts face saving she was fine it wasn't me guv statement? HIS and only HIS account of the private conversation- the other person with knowledge of that conversation just happens to be dead and cannot corroborate it. wow whood a thunk it.

Green font.

No one knows what happened after that conversation with her son. who or what pushed her over the edge...not even the coroner!  many people with mental illness do not commit suicide... sometimes it may be a 'last straw'
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 27, 2015, 02:28:34 PM
Internet troll to be sentenced for harassing Lee Rigby's family after saying soldier's murder was made up

An internet troll who claimed the murder of Lee Rigby was a conspiracy designed to provoke anti-Islamic feelings has escaped an immediate jail term after refusing to accept he did anything wrong.

Grandfather Christopher Spivey, of Rochford, Essex, posted a series of comments on social media about Fusilier Rigby's killing - including claiming the soldier had never existed and that the story of his murder was a conspiracy.

He also made direct contact with members of the Rigby family.

The 52-year-old denied harassment and sending grossly offensive messages over social media but was found guilty after a two-day trial at Chelmsford Magistrates' Court.

A sentencing hearing today heard that Spivey continues to protest his innocence and stands by the claims.

Sentencing him to six months in prison suspended for two years, District Judge John Woollard said: "I have been a district judge for 17 years and very rarely I come across conspiracy theorists like you.

"Experience tells me it's pointless telling you you are wrong because you believe I am part of the conspiracy.

"You totally fail to accept that what you were doing had a profound and shattering effect on the family.

"They had been thrust into the public eye and were bereaved in a terrible way and then they're contacted by somebody like you making the most ridiculous comments and claims.

"All because sitting in your bedroom in Rochford you come to the conclusion that MI5 and various other organisations are conspiring to mislead the public.

"You will be convinced until you die that you are right and everyone else is wrong."

The judge also made Spivey subject to a restraining order banning him from posting on blogs or social media and contacting Fusilier Rigby's family.

Fusilier Rigby, from Greater Manchester, was murdered as he returned to his barracks in Woolwich, south-east London, on May 22 2013.

He died of multiple cut and stab wounds.

Michael Adebolajo was given a whole-life term and Michael Adebowale was jailed for a minimum of 45 years at the Old Bailey for his murder last year.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13629766.Internet_troll_escapes_jail_for_harassing_Lee_Rigby_s_family_after_saying_soldier_s_murder_was_made_up/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 02:47:18 PM
 The dossier compliers are trolls who trolled trolls. The harrassers were harrassed? equilibrium?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 27, 2015, 03:29:38 PM
Perhaps the dossier compilers could have had their work assessed  legally behind the scenes for advice as to whether or not there was any point in presenting it to the police in the first place?

Couldn`t they have ascertained at that stage through legal advice whether or not crimes had been committed without the humiliation of rejection by the police?

They might not have been given the advice they hoped for, but the presentation of their dossier to Sky News would still have been an option, so all wouldn`t have been lost.

if i suspected a crime had been committed i would inform the police...simple
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
Internet troll to be sentenced for harassing Lee Rigby's family after saying soldier's murder was made up

An internet troll who claimed the murder of Lee Rigby was a conspiracy designed to provoke anti-Islamic feelings has escaped an immediate jail term after refusing to accept he did anything wrong.

Grandfather Christopher Spivey, of Rochford, Essex, posted a series of comments on social media about Fusilier Rigby's killing - including claiming the soldier had never existed and that the story of his murder was a conspiracy.

He also made direct contact with members of the Rigby family.

The 52-year-old denied harassment and sending grossly offensive messages over social media but was found guilty after a two-day trial at Chelmsford Magistrates' Court.

A sentencing hearing today heard that Spivey continues to protest his innocence and stands by the claims.

Sentencing him to six months in prison suspended for two years, District Judge John Woollard said: "I have been a district judge for 17 years and very rarely I come across conspiracy theorists like you.

"Experience tells me it's pointless telling you you are wrong because you believe I am part of the conspiracy.

"You totally fail to accept that what you were doing had a profound and shattering effect on the family.

"They had been thrust into the public eye and were bereaved in a terrible way and then they're contacted by somebody like you making the most ridiculous comments and claims.

"All because sitting in your bedroom in Rochford you come to the conclusion that MI5 and various other organisations are conspiring to mislead the public.

"You will be convinced until you die that you are right and everyone else is wrong."

The judge also made Spivey subject to a restraining order banning him from posting on blogs or social media and contacting Fusilier Rigby's family.

Fusilier Rigby, from Greater Manchester, was murdered as he returned to his barracks in Woolwich, south-east London, on May 22 2013.

He died of multiple cut and stab wounds.

Michael Adebolajo was given a whole-life term and Michael Adebowale was jailed for a minimum of 45 years at the Old Bailey for his murder last year.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13629766.Internet_troll_escapes_jail_for_harassing_Lee_Rigby_s_family_after_saying_soldier_s_murder_was_made_up/
Spivey must be delighted, as must all the other [ censored word ] trolls out there. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Anna on August 27, 2015, 03:59:32 PM
Spivey must be delighted, as must all the other [ censored word ] trolls out there.


The judge also made Spivey subject to a restraining order banning him from posting on blogs or social media and contacting Fusilier Rigby's family.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-08-27/internet-troll-avoids-jail-after-claiming-lee-rigby-murder-was-anti-islamic-conspiracy/

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 03:59:59 PM

The point being there is no objective view of "dregs of society". Like neither by common law nor statute so it is what anyone wants it to be to suit a particular argument. Someone who shoves leaflets through doors and posts nasty messages on the internet is "the dregs of society" ?.

Look up "Alice's Restaurant" lyrics and the find the bit about Group W bench. It is a very humourous take on a similar issue.
There is no objective view of many descriptive phrases, but thanks for the lesson in semantics.  If Brietta wishes to describe internet scumbags as the dregs of society she shouldn't need a lecture for doing so. IMO.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 04:01:33 PM

The judge also made Spivey subject to a restraining order banning him from posting on blogs or social media and contacting Fusilier Rigby's family.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-08-27/internet-troll-avoids-jail-after-claiming-lee-rigby-murder-was-anti-islamic-conspiracy/
A bit like Tony Bennett was banned from ever discussing the Madeleine McCann case online again you mean...?  &%+((£
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 27, 2015, 04:49:17 PM

What a joke. But at least The Judge agrees that Spivey is mentally ill.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 27, 2015, 05:00:58 PM
I think he was spared jail becasue of his apparent mental illness-delusional-paranoid etc...

I wonder how the online ban will be enforced though. I am sure it breaches his human rights...someone will pick on on it and run with it.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 27, 2015, 05:15:40 PM
I still fail to see what, in essence, is different between Spivey's online behaviour and that of numerous "Maddie Justice Seekers" aka delusional conspiracy theorists.  I guess it's only because the McCanns haven't got personal FB and twitter accounts that has (ironically) prevented these people from being convicted like Spivey has.   
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 27, 2015, 07:15:34 PM
There is no objective view of many descriptive phrases, but thanks for the lesson in semantics.  If Brietta wishes to describe internet scumbags as the dregs of society she shouldn't need a lecture for doing so. IMO.

How droll !
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lyall on August 28, 2015, 12:58:14 AM
A bit like Tony Bennett was banned from ever discussing the Madeleine McCann case online again you mean...?  &%+((£

He wasn't. There's no restraining order, just the undertakings agreed in 2009 (or thereabouts).
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: sadie on August 28, 2015, 12:58:44 AM
How droll !
How odd, Alice, to make such an unnecessary comment
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 28, 2015, 01:03:00 AM
The dossier compliers are trolls who trolled trolls. The harrassers were harrassed? equilibrium?

Good point.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 28, 2015, 01:05:27 AM
I still fail to see what, in essence, is different between Spivey's online behaviour and that of numerous "Maddie Justice Seekers" aka delusional conspiracy theorists.  I guess it's only because the McCanns haven't got personal FB and twitter accounts that has (ironically) prevented these people from being convicted like Spivey has.

Nothing stopping you calling the police and reporting a criminal offence

Is there?

Who would you like to be "convicted" to jail exactly and why?
I hope that includes the McCann "supporters" who recommended on their websites that various people be found out, their employers informed of their evil activities etc etc, their MPs notified, LOL
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 28, 2015, 01:37:14 AM
About the Organizer



 PJ GA

Not Facebook Verified

This person will receive your donation directly.

All payments are final and cannot be refunded.

Only give to people you know and trust.

=====================================================================

Isn't "Not Facebook verified" against the GoFundMe rules?
Trolls troll. Some are fraudsters. Yet still people continue to donate without questioning. Incredible.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 28, 2015, 01:41:22 AM
About the Organizer



 PJ GA

Not Facebook Verified

This person will receive your donation directly.

All payments are final and cannot be refunded.

Only give to people you know and trust.

=====================================================================

Isn't "Not Facebook verified" against the GoFundMe rules?
Trolls troll. Some are fraudsters. Yet still people continue to donate without questioning. Incredible.


So you're still angry that Amaral has supporters, tough dear, next

and why did you post THAT on the troll thread???

desperate and transparent?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 28, 2015, 01:45:33 AM
So you're still angry that Amaral has supporters, tough dear, next


Take a closer look, Mercury. Who now holds all the credit card details of donators? How is the money reaching PJGA?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 28, 2015, 01:50:53 AM

Take a closer look, Mercury. Who now holds all the credit card details of donators? How is the money reaching PJGA?
Credit card details? Are you suggesting pjga  is going to steal people's money? I really don't get you sometimes, maybe you need to calm down, reflect etc
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 28, 2015, 01:55:52 AM
Credit card details? Are you suggesting pjga  is going to steal people's money? I really don't get you sometimes, maybe you need to calm down, reflect etc


How do you know the site hasn't been hacked? Who runs PJGA? Why is it now being run from Portimao? Why would GoFundMe permit transfer of ownership from the registered Fundraiser 4 months into a campaign?
You're really not getting it, are you?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: mercury on August 28, 2015, 02:13:39 AM

How do you know the site hasn't been hacked? Who runs PJGA? Why is it now being run from Portimao? Why would GoFundMe permit transfer of ownership from the registered Fundraiser 4 months into a campaign?
You're really not getting it, are you?

maybe you should be more concerned with MILLIONS and how they are spent in the McCann fund hey?

Why so het up about 37 k ?  For a SINGLE purpose, Sheesh, that's what the Mccanns said it cost them to run their website for a year...l

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 08:15:53 AM
Good point.
How were the dossier compilers trolls exactly? 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 08:17:53 AM
Nothing stopping you calling the police and reporting a criminal offence

Is there?

Who would you like to be "convicted" to jail exactly and why?
I hope that includes the McCann "supporters" who recommended on their websites that various people be found out, their employers informed of their evil activities etc etc, their MPs notified, LOL
Perhaps you could highlight the bit where I said I would like various individuals to be convicted, many thanks.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 28, 2015, 08:19:24 AM
How were the dossier compilers trolls exactly?

 Look on s t m. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 08:22:43 AM
Look on s t m. 8**8:/:
So basically anyone who posts on a site supporting the McCanns is a troll in your view,,,?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 28, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I still fail to see what, in essence, is different between Spivey's online behaviour and that of numerous "Maddie Justice Seekers" aka delusional conspiracy theorists.  I guess it's only because the McCanns haven't got personal FB and twitter accounts that has (ironically) prevented these people from being convicted like Spivey has.

I would assume it was because Spivey directly approached the Rigby family.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 28, 2015, 10:37:38 AM
I would assume it was because Spivey directly approached the Rigby family.

In much the same way as some "McCanns Sceptics" have leafleted the Mccanns home town, visited places of work, written to MPs and employers, approached KM while shopping.

All cut from the same cloth, IMO
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Lace on August 28, 2015, 10:42:49 AM
In much the same way as some "McCanns Sceptics" have leafleted the Mccanns home town, visited places of work, written to MPs and employers, approached KM while shopping.

All cut from the same cloth, IMO


 8((()*/
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2015, 11:42:43 AM

Deleting shortly, so enough, if you please.  This is not a request.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: faithlilly on August 28, 2015, 11:50:44 AM
In much the same way as some "McCanns Sceptics" have leafleted the Mccanns home town, visited places of work, written to MPs and employers, approached KM while shopping.

All cut from the same cloth, IMO

Absolutely JP. You'll get no agreement from me on that score.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 12:39:24 PM
I would assume it was because Spivey directly approached the Rigby family.
yes, that's why I wrote " I guess it's only because the McCanns haven't got personal FB and twitter accounts that has (ironically) prevented these people from being convicted like Spivey has".
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 12:41:38 PM
Absolutely JP. You'll get no agreement from me on that score.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 12:43:06 PM
PS: I am reporting Faithlilly's avatar as I think it is the kind of avatar a troll would use on this forum, plus because of the forum it's being used on I would say it was also libellous.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 28, 2015, 01:23:31 PM
There is something for everyone in here!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Internet+Troll&page=2

My eclectic:
A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
-can be male or female, mostly males, including the popular 'gender bender'44 year old man that acts like 14 year old girl.
Female internet trolls, are far more scary than their male counterparts. Female trolls seem better able to delude themselves into believing that their behaviour is not only accepted online but that the traits that they find so well received (they are not) will transfer well to real life.
A person who posts remarks or comments onto internet forums or message boards in an attempt to get someone to comment negatively to it and to redirect attention onto himself.
Sometimes, the comments are enough to enrage the people in the forum to want to respond back with their own negative remarks which starts a flame war and changes the topic and attention of the discussion.
Biased and angry because of envious or unreasonable emotions  trolls will degrade you for even speaking or making any statement at all.


OK cats now lets play spot the troll!

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 01:42:41 PM
There is something for everyone in here!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Internet+Troll&page=2

My eclectic:
A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
-can be male or female, mostly males, including the popular 'gender bender'44 year old man that acts like 14 year old girl.
Female internet trolls, are far more scary than their male counterparts. Female trolls seem better able to delude themselves into believing that their behaviour is not only accepted online but that the traits that they find so well received (they are not) will transfer well to real life.
A person who posts remarks or comments onto internet forums or message boards in an attempt to get someone to comment negatively to it and to redirect attention onto himself.
Sometimes, the comments are enough to enrage the people in the forum to want to respond back with their own negative remarks which starts a flame war and changes the topic and attention of the discussion.
Biased and angry because of envious or unreasonable emotions  trolls will degrade you for even speaking or making any statement at all.


OK cats now lets play spot the troll!
the bit highlighted in bold above describes you to  a tee does it not?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 28, 2015, 02:05:45 PM
the bit highlighted in bold above describes you to  a tee does it not?

Is that you statin' the bleedin' obvious or you trying to start a flame war Alf  8(0(*. Why do you think I put it first? Press this button here and behold and lo.................
 *&*%£
Now find yourself you are in there!
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Brietta on August 28, 2015, 02:12:59 PM

How do you know the site hasn't been hacked? Who runs PJGA? Why is it now being run from Portimao? Why would GoFundMe permit transfer of ownership from the registered Fundraiser 4 months into a campaign?
You're really not getting it, are you?

       If there were no gullible people ... there would be no Nigerian Princes raking in money from them.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 04:10:12 PM
Is that you statin' the bleedin' obvious or you trying to start a flame war Alf  8(0(*. Why do you think I put it first? Press this button here and behold and lo.................
 *&*%£
Now find yourself you are in there!
I'm sorry, I don't know how your mind works, nor did I realise you had re-ordered the description of trolls you posted.  I'm very sorry for any distress / upset / amusement / irritation I may have inadvertently caused on this occasion. 
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 28, 2015, 05:30:35 PM
PS: I am reporting Faithlilly's avatar as I think it is the kind of avatar a troll would use on this forum, plus because of the forum it's being used on I would say it was also libellous.

So who did Arthur Conan Doyle Libel?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Eleanor on August 28, 2015, 05:38:30 PM
So who did Arthur Conan Doyle Libel?

The Dog?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
So who did Arthur Conan Doyle Libel?
Who said Arthur Conal Doyle had libelled anyone?  Faithlilly has as her avatar the statement "When a doctor does go wrong he is the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge" a quote from a novel by ACD in which he is describing a (fictional) murderous physician.  Faithlilly posts exclusively on the Madeleine McCann forum, in which she "only asks questions" about the parents of Madeleine McCann, both of whom are doctors by profession.  You join the dots if you're able....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2015, 05:42:33 PM
PS: I am reporting Faithlilly's avatar as I think it is the kind of avatar a troll would use on this forum, plus because of the forum it's being used on I would say it was also libellous.

I would say it would be more accurate to replace doctor with policeman
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 28, 2015, 05:56:53 PM
Who said Arthur Conal Doyle had libelled anyone?  Faithlilly has as her avatar the statement "When a doctor does go wrong he is the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge" a quote from a novel by ACD in which he is describing a (fictional) murderous physician.  Faithlilly posts exclusively on the Madeleine McCann forum, in which she "only asks questions" about the parents of Madeleine McCann, both of whom are doctors by profession.  You join the dots if you're able....

Nah, a huge leap that. The statement "doctors can become great criminal" is not libellous.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2015, 05:59:27 PM
Nah, a huge leap that. The statement "doctors can become great criminal" is not libellous.

Doctors being extremely intelligent would be good at most things
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: slartibartfast on August 28, 2015, 06:03:05 PM
Doctors being extremely intelligent would be good at most things

So you agree not a libellous statement.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 06:20:53 PM
Nah, a huge leap that. The statement "doctors can become great criminal" is not libellous.
libel by inference.  It doesn't take a great leap of intelligence to work out exactly what Faithlilly is implying.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 06:22:54 PM
"Inferences and innuendoes are also prosecutable offenses and should be seen as dangerous as any direct statement. An inference is similar to an innuendo  – the crucial disparity is that an inference is a hidden suggestion recognisable to one without special knowledge, whereas an innuendo is a hidden meaning within a statement that may seem defamatory only to those with special knowledge" -

one has to ask oneself why, of all the ACD quotes she could have chosen, did Faithlilly specifically choose to display this one as her avatar?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 06:31:05 PM
So you agree not a libellous statement.
I thought you might make quite a good Moderator, but I realise now that I was wrong.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: stephen25000 on August 28, 2015, 07:15:52 PM
Doctors being extremely intelligent would be good at most things

In childcare ?

Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 28, 2015, 07:16:24 PM
libel by inference.  It doesn't take a great leap of intelligence to work out exactly what Faithlilly is implying.

Artimus Jones:

http://mavrkydefamationcaselaw.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/hulton-co-v-jones.html

So far as I'm aware, the precedent has never been superseded ....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 28, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
Artimus Jones:

http://mavrkydefamationcaselaw.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/hulton-co-v-jones.html

So far as I'm aware, the precedent has never been superseded ....
Ah, good old Great Uncle Artemus....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 28, 2015, 07:37:33 PM
"Inferences and innuendoes are also prosecutable offenses and should be seen as dangerous as any direct statement. An inference is similar to an innuendo  – the crucial disparity is that an inference is a hidden suggestion recognisable to one without special knowledge, whereas an innuendo is a hidden meaning within a statement that may seem defamatory only to those with special knowledge" -

one has to ask oneself why, of all the ACD quotes she could have chosen, did Faithlilly specifically choose to display this one as her avatar?

The bit you Googled and cut and pasted is dated 2013. New legislation came into force in 2014. Are you satisfied what you posted remains applicable?

1Serious harm

(1)A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.

(2)For the purposes of this section, harm to the reputation of a body that trades for profit is not “serious harm” unless it has caused or is likely to cause the body serious financial loss.
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: misty on August 28, 2015, 07:45:23 PM
Hmmm, despite being a no-news month yet again, August has seen the withdrawal of Stephen Birch, Miss L. Baulch and now Blacksmith from the fray. Sonia seems otherwise engaged losing a pearly-whites battle with Rylan on Daytime TV.
Which, as yet unpublicised, event has prompted the apparent beginning of the end?
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: ferryman on August 28, 2015, 07:47:38 PM
The bit you Googled and cut and pasted is dated 2013. New legislation came into force in 2014. Are you satisfied what you posted remains applicable?

1Serious harm

(1)A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.

(2)For the purposes of this section, harm to the reputation of a body that trades for profit is not “serious harm” unless it has caused or is likely to cause the body serious financial loss.


So inferring that a doctor might try to cover up mistakes by nefarious criminal intent is not libellous?

Perhaps not, if no doctor (named) is likely to be identified by the statement ....
Title: Re: What is an 'internet troll'?
Post by: Davel on August 28, 2015, 08:01:18 PM
The bit you Googled and cut and pasted is dated 2013. New legislation came into force in 2014. Are you satisfied what you posted remains applicable?

1Serious harm

(1)A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.

(2)For the purposes of this section, harm to the reputation of a body that trades for profit is not “serious harm” unless it has caused or is likely to cause the body serious financial loss.


there can be no doubt that statements made  on this forum are likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the mccan