UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 03:26:49 PM

Title: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 23, 2015, 03:26:49 PM
Following discussions with my friends* on the Madeleine McCann forum I thought it would be interesting to continue the discussion here.  Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that pigs will sprout wings and fly before Corbyn gets his hands on the keys of Number 10, but putting that to one side - what do we think of his views, his ability to lead the Labour Party and the country, his beard and dress sense, etc?

* (friends in this instance is used in the same way as Corbyn claimed he used the word to describe the terrorist sympathisers he shared a platform with, ie: a bunch of people whose views I vehemently oppose but it's always good to talk!)

463
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: sika on August 23, 2015, 11:28:23 PM
I think that he is a thoroughly decent man.  If he does manage to win the current leadership battle, I fear that the appointment will be challenged and the election declared null and void.  There's no way the party will line up behind him. 

He would get my vote though.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Passer-by on August 24, 2015, 12:42:05 AM
Oh dear. All I know about him is he went to a fee-paying Grammar school . . . ?!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on August 24, 2015, 07:56:07 AM
Oh dear. All I know about him is he went to a fee-paying Grammar school . . . ?!

Really?  I didn't know that.  Not that it should matter, but it does, in terms of hypocrisy.

Although why anyone thinks that those who deserted Labour to vote Tory would now want to vote for the hard left does confuse me a bit.
Perhaps it is a plot to scupper Labour for ever.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 24, 2015, 08:17:19 AM
Oh dear. All I know about him is he went to a fee-paying Grammar school . . . ?!
Grammar schools don't tend to be fee paying do they?  The potential hypocrisy is that he is the product of a grammar school education who thinks grammar schools should be abolished.  Mind you, I don't suppose he had much choice where he was sent to school when he was a kid so I'm not holding that against him.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Passer-by on August 24, 2015, 07:33:27 PM
The Grammar school will have been his parents choice:  I know plenty of people who are ex-Grammar and ex-private school who think the respective schools should be abolished because they had a bad time and imagine it would have been ginger-peachy at a comprehensive.

Adams was I think a private school taken over by the Government so back in the day charged top-up fees.

In this day and age it does strike me as an odd thing to have on a list of priorities:  each child should have the best education for that child.

I have to admit I haven been following the Corbyn thing as I bet it doesn't make a jot of difference in the long-term!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 24, 2015, 10:03:08 PM
Prime Ministers must, repeat MUST be clean-shaven, otherwise they look like dodgy introverts with something to hide!!!  So Corbyn stands no chance (especially with women voters)... unless he invests in a supply of BIC razors before election time.

(https://i.imgur.com/BFfiUkj.jpg)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on August 25, 2015, 07:33:14 AM

Yer, but he's working class, innit.  And Carl Marx had a beard.  He can't be wasting too much Collective Time shaving when he will want to get down and dirty with The Workers at The Labour Exchange.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on August 25, 2015, 08:13:49 AM
Yer, but he's working class, innit.  And Carl Marx had a beard.  He can't be wasting too much Collective Time shaving when he will want to get down and dirty with The Workers at The Labour Exchange.
Jeremy is NOT working class.  He grew up in a seven bedroom manor house in the Cotswolds fercrissakes!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on August 25, 2015, 08:29:07 AM
Jeremy is NOT working class.  He grew up in a seven bedroom manor house in the Cotswolds fercrissakes!!

I know that.  But does everyone else?  He certainly looks working class, more working class than some of the working classes.

PS.  Some of my best friends are working class, in case anyone wondered.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Passer-by on August 25, 2015, 03:46:45 PM
Prime Ministers must, repeat MUST be clean-shaven, otherwise they look like dodgy introverts with something to hide!!!  So Corbyn stands no chance (especially with women voters)... unless he invests in a supply of BIC razors before election time.

(https://i.imgur.com/BFfiUkj.jpg)

Has that blown the gaff for Yvette Cooper as well I wonder, or is there some tittle-tattle about her shaving habits we don't yet know . . . ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 25, 2015, 06:41:01 PM
Has that blown the gaff for Yvette Cooper as well I wonder, or is there some tittle-tattle about her shaving habits we don't yet know . . . ?

Call me shallow or what, but...
I'm not keen on a woman with Balls  8(8-))   or one who's a lover of Dr Dre (c)rap music... yuck, ghastly!  ?8)@)-)

... or, for that matter, a potential PM who speaks with a flat Lanky twang.  %56&

So Jeremy Corbyn complete with Lenin cap, scruffy beard and silver spoon it has to be.  8(8-))

(http://i.imgur.com/kkz896X.jpg?1)

... although definitely more acceptable after an affable granddad makeover with facial and nasal hair nicely trimmed. 8((()*/

(http://i.imgur.com/1xD0Bak.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Passer-by on August 26, 2015, 02:26:08 AM
Call me shallow or what, but...
I'm not keen on a woman with Balls  8(8-))   or one who's a lover of Dr Dre (c)rap music... yuck, ghastly!  ?8)@)-)

... or, for that matter, a potential PM who speaks with a flat Lanky twang.  %56&

So Jeremy Corbyn complete with Lenin cap, scruffy beard and silver spoon it has to be.  8(8-))

(http://i.imgur.com/kkz896X.jpg?1)

... although definitely more acceptable after an affable granddad makeover with facial and nasal hair nicely trimmed. 8((()*/

(http://i.imgur.com/1xD0Bak.jpg?1)

Here-here!  Best description I've heard of Yvette Cooper is that she looks like an angry ostrich.  Personally it's her saccharine patronising faux-sincere voice I find really nauseating.

Andy Burnham forced my local hospital to be built using private money instead of spending some of the gold that was sold off - or even some of the deficit - so now it's a lovely building but the staff are all hassled and stroppy and making serious mistakes because all the money is servicing the private debt, so I'm not keen on him either.

But Corbyn despite being wonderfully characterful and at least sincere in his beliefs, is hardly going to mount a credible Opposition to keep the other lot in check . . .

Easy for Rory Bremner though.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 30, 2015, 08:03:09 PM
Following discussions with my friends* on the Madeleine McCann forum I thought it would be interesting to continue the discussion here.  Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that pigs will sprout wings and fly before Corbyn gets his hands on the keys of Number 10, but putting that to one side - what do we think of his views, his ability to lead the Labour Party and the country, his beard and dress sense, etc?

* (friends in this instance is used in the same way as Corbyn claimed he used the word to describe the terrorist sympathisers he shared a platform with, ie: a bunch of people whose views I vehemently oppose but it's always good to talk!)

 @)(++(*

That beard is a real statement but think he should go the whole hog and dye it red!  I think he's saying I'm authentic and no image consultants are getting their hands on me  &%+((£

I wouldn't vote for him as I don't agree with his stance on defence, immigration and renationalising the railways. And I probably wouldn't feel comfortable with him representing UK on the global stage but its good to have some radical alternative to the Tories  &%+((£ 

Most other European countries have a radical left party including France and Germany who are in the G7:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_left_and_far_left_parties_in_Europe

If he wins I think we should have a whip round for a nose and ear hair trimmer  8)-)))

I would go for Liz bet she always wears Blue undies  8(0(*



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on August 30, 2015, 08:12:08 PM
I'd vote for him if I could.  But it seems that The Labour Party are turning down new members for the first time evah.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 30, 2015, 08:26:00 PM
The fact that Tony Blair is having kittens at the idea of JC being Labour leader is enough for me to vote for him

 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 30, 2015, 10:37:21 PM
The fact that Tony Blair is having kittens at the idea of JC being Labour leader is enough for me to vote for him

 8((()*/

The global financial crisis 07/08 tells us that a free market economy (capitalism) doesn't really work.  Or doesn't work for the majority. TB came to office nearly two decades ago.  The whole world has changed.  It could be argued that the Tories were further right then, or perceived to be further right, so TB left of centre offered enough of a difference?  See here in the Guardian the candidates views on austerity - JC states he is  going to tax the wealthy - the others just waffle.  Still wouldn't want to snog him though who knows what might be lurking in that beard  8)><(

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/aug/13/labour-leadership-candidates-comparison-burnham-cooper-corbyn-kendall

JC has the backing of two eminent economists: Joseph Stiglitz and Danny Blanchflower:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/26/joseph-stiglitz-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-contender-anti-austerity

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-would-renationalise-public-companies-sold-for-knockoff-prices-by-the-tories-10467684.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 30, 2015, 10:46:02 PM
hi Holly  I know the economists have stuck the third finger up at the ones that seem to be having apoplectic fits and telling lies ps....I never voted for anyone who I thought was the best to snog, most politicians are dead ugly anyway

JC is the best of a bad bunch

cooper - boring, lies, so non inspirational
Kendall - boring, lies, talks to her audience as if they are five years old
Andy - sad little wimp

Tough sh it as they say Blair and David Milliband and Mandelson....ooer what a  terrible trio!

how's Chilcot doing TB? And why has been sitting of his sad arse for so many years.....

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 31, 2015, 11:17:22 AM
hi Holly  I know the economists have stuck the third finger up at the ones that seem to be having apoplectic fits and telling lies ps....I never voted for anyone who I thought was the best to snog, most politicians are dead ugly anyway

JC is the best of a bad bunch

cooper - boring, lies, so non inspirational
Kendall - boring, lies, talks to her audience as if they are five years old
Andy - sad little wimp

Tough sh it as they say Blair and David Milliband and Mandelson....ooer what a  terrible trio!

how's Chilcot doing TB? And why has been sitting of his sad arse for so many years.....

There's no sense of urgency with Chilcot.  Why would there be when he gets paid a daily fee of £790 at the taxpayers expense. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chilcot-inquiry-fury-over-790-6099760
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 31, 2015, 07:30:24 PM
790£ a day? That's 790 x 365 x 6 =
?
A fat load of dosh

A disgrace the time it has taken..how much longer does he need?


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 01, 2015, 11:39:22 AM
790£ a day? That's 790 x 365 x 6 =
?
A fat load of dosh

A disgrace the time it has taken..how much longer does he need?

Until the next gravy train comes along or a life peerage beckons  8)-)))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 03, 2015, 11:01:58 PM
Watched him in the leaders debate on sky tonight, awesome, no contest....given slam dunk, new Labour leader, he has convinced the public he is the best and most able candidate to take on the Tory destructive regime, and more. 85% thought he won the debate, the other failures got around 10 and under.

 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 06, 2015, 02:07:50 PM
Worth a read - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/im-backing-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-despite-his-unsavoury-friends-1518261
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 07, 2015, 09:32:39 PM
Thanks,great endorsements...

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 12, 2015, 12:23:36 PM
Victory %£&)**#

Amazing (Watson as deputy too - that's maybe even more surprising).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on September 12, 2015, 12:55:30 PM
Jeremy Corbyn will never be PM, he will be almost 71 by the time the next election comes around assuming it to be 5 May 2020.  All he will ever be is the interim leader.

The great British public have abandoned Labour and given their policy on immigration they did the right thing.  Labour is now unelectable!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on September 12, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
Jeremy Corbyn will never be PM, he will be almost 71 by the time the next election comes around assuming it to be 5 May 2020.  All he will ever be is the interim leader.

The great British public have abandoned Labour and given their policy on immigration they did the right thing.  Labour is now unelectable!!

... so he can keep that scruffy Albert Steptoe beard after all.  Not that I'm bothered because whether red, blue or yellow they're all a bunch of scheisters anyway. I'm still waiting for Cameron's promised vote to get us out of Europe and its freeloading Parliament.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2015, 01:50:52 PM
It will certainly make domestic politics more interesting!  And programmes such as Question Time that have become so dull and boring perhaps entertaining again.   I've never voted Labour so I have no allegiance to them but I certainly wouldn't write them off on the back of a Corbyn/Watson win.  It could be a case of underestimate them at your peril! 

Corbyn's attack on the media was interesting - perhaps recognising the power social media is likely to have in winning future elections rather than traditional printing press/media barons.

I wouldn't vote for any party who advocates unmitigated immigration and slimming down on defence (Trident).  The argument that immigrants are net contributors to the economy is imo fatally flawed.  And I think the UK should always be in a position to defend itself and not rely on others.  But I like the idea of less inequality.  The fact we have such extremes with the haves and the have nots I don't think is good for society as a whole. 



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2015, 02:12:14 PM
... so he can keep that scruffy Albert Steptoe beard after all.  Not that I'm bothered because whether red, blue or yellow they're all a bunch of scheisters anyway. I'm still waiting for Cameron's promised vote to get us out of Europe and its freeloading Parliament.

At least it was neatly trimmed today. And Yvette Cooper washed her hair which is often very greasy looking.  I thought JC looked ok today akin to a CEO from Silicone Valley...maybe...perhaps... &%+((£

I wish they wouldn't keep banging on about gender equality, which I'm all for, Labour simply doesn't have any females at this moment in time worthy of leader or deputy leader unlike Scotland/Nicola Sturgeon.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 12, 2015, 05:46:45 PM
Jeremy Corbyn will never be PM, he will be almost 71 by the time the next election comes around assuming it to be 5 May 2020.  All he will ever be is the interim leader.

The great British public have abandoned Labour and given their policy on immigration they did the right thing.  Labour is now unelectable!!
Correct.  Labour RIP.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 12, 2015, 06:19:49 PM
Correct.  Labour RIP.

Cheer up Alfred. The party recovered from the stab in the back by the SDP, and they were political giants compared to the nonentities who might defect today. The party will survive whatever they and their media friends throw at it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 12, 2015, 08:29:58 PM
Cheer up Alfred. The party recovered from the stab in the back by the SDP, and they were political giants compared to the nonentities who might defect today. The party will survive whatever they and their media friends throw at it.
It won't form a government for another 10years miniimum.  How old will Jezzer be by then?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 12, 2015, 11:17:15 PM
Fantastic result for Labour....time for a breath of fresh air and for a serious challenge to the horrible Tories and the spineless useless Cameron thing
Also a kick up the backside for those pretending to be labour but pandering to the right, be honest or get lost if you want to have any credibility


bring it on!

 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 12, 2015, 11:51:15 PM
Fantastic result for Labour....time for a breath of fresh air and for a serious challenge to the horrible Tories and the spineless useless Cameron thing
Also a kick up the backside for those pretending to be labour but pandering to the right, be honest or get lost if you want to have any credibility


bring it on!

 8((()*/
it can only be a fantastic result for Labour if today's result takes them closer to government than they might otherwise have been with one of the other candidates.  In all honesty I wouldn't have fancied their chances with any of the candidates they put forward and at least this result will give us all plenty to talk about over the next few months.  I would put a fiver on Jeremy not being the leader anymore in a year or so's time anyway..,
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 12, 2015, 11:56:07 PM
It doesn't matter if JC is not the next PM, and you never know, he may be, he is 62 going on 52, what matters is at least one party has got a guy with the guts to say it like it is, and speak for a lot of people, instead of being a sound bite buffoon, surely even you would applaud this and everyone is fed up of stinking  dishonest backtracking politicians, give the bloke a chance, he might ruck up politics to the level it should be once again


ps and FYI Im not some rabid red leftie..I have an enormous amount of respect for a lot of Tory MPs, and a healthy and informed contempt for quite a few labour ones, unfortunately the corrupt and incompetent idiotics  for some reason seem to rule
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on September 13, 2015, 12:17:47 AM
It doesn't matter if JC is not the next PM, and you never know, he may be, he is 62 going on 52, what matters is at least one party has got a guy with the guts to say it like it is, and speak for a lot of people, instead of being a sound bite buffoon, surely even you would applaud this and everyone is fed up of stinking  dishonest backtracking politicians, give the bloke a chance, he might ruck up politics to the level it should be once again


ps and FYI Im not some rabid red leftie..I have an enormous amount of respect for a lot of Tory MPs, and a healthy and informed contempt for quite a few labour ones, unfortunately the corrupt and incompetent idiotics  for some reason seem to rule

Hmmm. I'm not sure about Corbyn. He's a scruffy, angry sod. Reminiscent of Ken Livingstone and Michael Foot. Why do women need seperate train carriages? Will we all have an attack of the vapours if it all kicks off?

In my day, if you got flirted with, you just went along with it, or kicked the bloke in the knacks. Now we've got yewtree, and silly men who overstepped the mark spend 8 years in prison. We have totally lost the plot. When did women get so weak? When did we stop speaking up for ourselves?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 08:34:21 AM
Corbyn strikes me as an honest man of principle. He seems more likely to answer questions honestly, which will be a refreshing change.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 01:50:50 PM
Corbyn strikes me as an honest man of principle. He seems more likely to answer questions honestly, which will be a refreshing change.
the thing is, if he continues to answer questions honestly and stick to his principles then he really doesn't have a cat in hell's chance of appealing to the majority of the electorate, so no Labour victory in sight while he heads the party.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 13, 2015, 01:57:27 PM

All such a laugh.  But it isn't.  I am now in total despair of Britain ever recovering.  But Scotland might be alright.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 01:59:37 PM
It doesn't matter if JC is not the next PM, and you never know, he may be, he is 62 going on 52, what matters is at least one party has got a guy with the guts to say it like it is, and speak for a lot of people, instead of being a sound bite buffoon, surely even you would applaud this and everyone is fed up of stinking  dishonest backtracking politicians, give the bloke a chance, he might ruck up politics to the level it should be once again


ps and FYI Im not some rabid red leftie..I have an enormous amount of respect for a lot of Tory MPs, and a healthy and informed contempt for quite a few labour ones, unfortunately the corrupt and incompetent idiotics  for some reason seem to rule
Jez is 66 I believe, not 62, meaning he will be 71 at the next election.  It's all well and good him being a nice guy and all, with integrity and principles but we need an effective party of opposition not an anti-establishment protest group which is what Labour will become under Corbyn.  Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 13, 2015, 02:02:21 PM
Jez is 66 I believe, not 62, meaning he will be 71 at the next election.  It's all well and good him being a nice guy and all, with integrity and principles but we need an effective party of opposition not an anti-establishment protest group which is what Labour will become under Corbyn.  Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

You mean just like Capitalism. @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 02:15:48 PM
You mean just like Capitalism. @)(++(* @)(++(*
Name a system you would rather live under Stephen. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 03:29:08 PM
Jez is 66 I believe, not 62, meaning he will be 71 at the next election.  It's all well and good him being a nice guy and all, with integrity and principles but we need an effective party of opposition not an anti-establishment protest group which is what Labour will become under Corbyn.  Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

The last party leader with strong convictions, the courage to stick to them and act on them was Mrs Thatcher. She believed in 'Monetarism' and her hero was Adam Smith. She scared Labour so much they became 'New Labour' ditching their traditional beliefs and loyalties in order to get elected. Since then less and less people have been interested in voting or being involved in the political process. Was that due to apathy or was it due to the feeling that no-one was representing their interests?

Lots of people joined the Labour Party recently in order to vote for Corbyn. It's been said they were Tory voters being sneaky, but they could be ordinary people who wanted a Labour leader who offered a true alternative to the other parties.

Corbyn seems to want a return to Keynesian economic policies. He doesn't believe in war. He believes in an NHS free at the point of use, a nationally owned Rail Network, nationally owned Energy Suppiers. He won't sell off our assets for others to make profit from. He prefers to tax the rich rather than oppressing the poor. He likes the idea of a right to buy your house from large private landlords and restricting how much rent these people can charge. He wants to allow local Councils to borrow to build houses. He cares about the poor and thinks this country is rich enough to take care of the less fortunate members of society. He would welcome immigrants and also provide for them. He likes the EU poiicies which have helped the poorer members of society; working time directives, minimum pay and holidays, all of which his opponents dislike.

Of course the rich and greedy will raise an enormous clamour against him because he threatens their interests.
None of his ideas are bad. None of them will impoverish the rich, and most of them will help the poor, the disabled and the less privileged.

Out of interest, where in the world have similar policies been fully implemented?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 04:25:05 PM
The last party leader with strong convictions, the courage to stick to them and act on them was Mrs Thatcher. She believed in 'Monetarism' and her hero was Adam Smith. She scared Labour so much they became 'New Labour' ditching their traditional beliefs and loyalties in order to get elected. Since then less and less people have been interested in voting or being involved in the political process. Was that due to apathy or was it due to the feeling that no-one was representing their interests?

Lots of people joined the Labour Party recently in order to vote for Corbyn. It's been said they were Tory voters being sneaky, but they could be ordinary people who wanted a Labour leader who offered a true alternative to the other parties.

Corbyn seems to want a return to Keynesian economic policies. He doesn't believe in war. He believes in an NHS free at the point of use, a nationally owned Rail Network, nationally owned Energy Suppiers. He won't sell off our assets for others to make profit from. He prefers to tax the rich rather than oppressing the poor. He likes the idea of a right to buy your house from large private landlords and restricting how much rent these people can charge. He wants to allow local Councils to borrow to build houses. He cares about the poor and thinks this country is rich enough to take care of the less fortunate members of society. He would welcome immigrants and also provide for them. He likes the EU poiicies which have helped the poorer members of society; working time directives, minimum pay and holidays, all of which his opponents dislike.

Of course the rich and greedy will raise an enormous clamour against him because he threatens their interests.
None of his ideas are bad. None of them will impoverish the rich, and most of them will help the poor, the disabled and the less privileged.

Out of interest, where in the world have similar policies been fully implemented?
The one point alone highlighted above will be enough to ensure Labour won't win any election under Corbyn.  IMO, his policies if they ever came into play would cause mass inflation, an upsurge in trade union activism, a dramatic downturn in the economy and an unprecedented exodus of business and wealth from this country.  But if that's what the people of this  country want then they must vote for him and his policies - we shall see how far he gets in five years time if he still leads the party then. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 04:30:13 PM
And if you won't listen to me, listen to Peter Hain (or is he one of the rich and greedy raising a clamour against Corbyn you were referring to?)

"But the reason I won’t vote for Corbyn is that, underneath his appealing slogans and rousing values, there is no programmatic substance. Whatever their respective merits, proposals to scrap Trident, abolish tuition fees and renationalise the railways do not constitute a coherent platform.

His economic policy amounts to an unelectable platform of “tax and spend” – an anguished cry of protest, not a serious alternative for a Labour government seeking to reject the suffocating neoliberal orthodoxy of cuts, shrinking the state and privatising everything possible.

He demonstrates little understanding of the immensely arduous challenge of electing, let alone running, a social democratic or democratic socialist government, when neoliberalism is so destructively dominant globally and the British media mostly in hock to it".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/jeremy-corbyn-policies-labour
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 13, 2015, 04:31:33 PM
Margaret Thatcher encouraged me to start my own business, and I survived for eight years despite interest rates being very high at the time
I was providing excellence, but that ran it's course as other businesses were being squeezed.  So I don't really know what the answer is.

I eventually ran out of steam and went into Burn Out as I struggled to do what would have taken at least two more employees to fulfil, if I could have afforded to pay them.
So I bogged off to France and put my energy to running a Gardening Business, and earned considerably more money, relying only on myself.

No, I don't mind.  I learned a lot.  Not least good book keeping.  And I earned a few bob doing that for other people.
But Britain simply cannot afford to kill off people like me, because we will go.  Or give up altogether.

And it isn't just Corbyn.  It's the whole mindset.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 08:16:13 PM
The one point alone highlighted above will be enough to ensure Labour won't win any election under Corbyn.  IMO, his policies if they ever came into play would cause mass inflation, an upsurge in trade union activism, a dramatic downturn in the economy and an unprecedented exodus of business and wealth from this country.  But if that's what the people of this  country want then they must vote for him and his policies - we shall see how far he gets in five years time if he still leads the party then.

I note you didn't answer my question. Where have similar policies been implemented?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 08:20:06 PM
Margaret Thatcher encouraged me to start my own business, and I survived for eight years despite interest rates being very high at the time
I was providing excellence, but that ran it's course as other businesses were being squeezed.  So I don't really know what the answer is.

I eventually ran out of steam and went into Burn Out as I struggled to do what would have taken at least two more employees to fulfil, if I could have afforded to pay them.
So I bogged off to France and put my energy to running a Gardening Business, and earned considerably more money, relying only on myself.

No, I don't mind.  I learned a lot.  Not least good book keeping.  And I earned a few bob doing that for other people.
But Britain simply cannot afford to kill off people like me, because we will go.  Or give up altogether.

And it isn't just Corbyn.  It's the whole mindset.

Who was in power when you bogged off then Eleanor? It couldn't have been a left-wing Labour government.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 08:56:05 PM
I note you didn't answer my question. Where have similar policies been implemented?
why should I answer your question when you ignored mine?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 09:30:46 PM
why should I answer your question when you ignored mine?

Was this your question?

Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

If you can tell me where Corbyn's 'brand of politics' has been implemented I would be able to assess whether it worked or not. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 09:39:52 PM
Was this your question?

Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

If you can tell me where Corbyn's 'brand of politics' has been implemented I would be able to assess whether it worked or not.
Why are you asking me basically the same question I asked you?  Are you under the impression that Corbyn's policies are uniquely his and are untried and untested anywhere in the world?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 09:47:50 PM
Why are you asking me basically the same question I asked you?  Are you under the impression that Corbyn's policies are uniquely his and are untried and untested anywhere in the world?

Certain of his ideas exist in certain countries. I'm not sure if I know of a country where all of them exist? that's if I knew all of his policies, which I don't. Do you?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 10:17:22 PM
Certain of his ideas exist in certain countries. I'm not sure if I know of a country where all of them exist? that's if I knew all of his policies, which I don't. Do you?
Let's simplify this for you.  which far left socialist governments worldwide do you feel have transformed their countries and the lives of their people for the better on a longterm basis?   
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:38:32 PM
Jez is 66 I believe, not 62, meaning he will be 71 at the next election.  It's all well and good him being a nice guy and all, with integrity and principles but we need an effective party of opposition not an anti-establishment protest group which is what Labour will become under Corbyn.  Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

Effective opposition isn't sitting around looking at the polls being too terrified to do anything for five years, which is exactly what Labour did in the last parliament, and it's what they'd also do in this one if any of the other candidates had won the election.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:39:39 PM
And if you won't listen to me, listen to Peter Hain (or is he one of the rich and greedy raising a clamour against Corbyn you were referring to?)

"But the reason I won’t vote for Corbyn is that, underneath his appealing slogans and rousing values, there is no programmatic substance. Whatever their respective merits, proposals to scrap Trident, abolish tuition fees and renationalise the railways do not constitute a coherent platform.

His economic policy amounts to an unelectable platform of “tax and spend” – an anguished cry of protest, not a serious alternative for a Labour government seeking to reject the suffocating neoliberal orthodoxy of cuts, shrinking the state and privatising everything possible.

He demonstrates little understanding of the immensely arduous challenge of electing, let alone running, a social democratic or democratic socialist government, when neoliberalism is so destructively dominant globally and the British media mostly in hock to it".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/30/jeremy-corbyn-policies-labour

Yes, Hain is a Blairrite. Enough said.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:41:58 PM
Was this your question?

Out of interest, where in the world has Corbyn's brand of politics ever been shown to work on a longterm basis and improve the standard of living and well being for all its inhabitants?

If you can tell me where Corbyn's 'brand of politics' has been implemented I would be able to assess whether it worked or not.

He's actually proposing something similar to Germany's economy, and nobody could claim Germany's governments since 1945 have been 'loony left wing'.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 10:43:50 PM
Effective opposition isn't sitting around looking at the polls being too terrified to do anything for five years, which is exactly what Labour did in the last parliament, and it's what they'd also do in this one if any of the other candidates had won the election.
I don't disagree.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:45:02 PM
I don't disagree.

Hurrah 8@??)(
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 10:45:57 PM
Yes, Hain is a Blairrite. Enough said.
Blair was the most successful Labour leader in my lifetime, so Hain (who also is a first rate economist) should have some idea what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 10:47:30 PM
He's actually proposing something similar to Germany's economy, and nobody could claim Germany's governments since 1945 have been 'loony left wing'.
Would that be East Germany? 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:50:17 PM
Blair was the most successful Labour leader in my lifetime, so Hain (who also is a first rate economist) should have some idea what he's talking about.

So does Richard Murphy, who is I believe close to the new Labour leadership. What Murphy doesn't know about the crazy tax loopholes and tax breaks the wealthy benefit from isn't worth knowing.

The idea isn't to clobber the rich for the sake of it, it's to stop the gap between rich and poor increasing (as it has done under every government since the 1960s).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 10:54:01 PM
Would that be East Germany? 8(0(*

Nein &%&£(+

Our economy is even more centered around financial institutions than the US. When they go bang we are in the worst position of any economy. Germany recognises that reliance is potentially disastrous, and Corbyn thinks it's high time we recognised it too.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 10:57:52 PM
Let's simplify this for you.  which far left socialist governments worldwide do you feel have transformed their countries and the lives of their people for the better on a longterm basis?

The problem is that I can't discuss politics in a simplistic manner. I have a degree in the subject which means that terms such as 'far left' and 'socialist' have to be defined before I can discuss them.

Some countries people describe as 'Communist' call themselves 'Socialist' - Cuba and China for eg. These are usually one-party states who follow Marxist-Leninist ideology. Other countries call themselves 'Socialist' - Guyana and India are examples of these. Others are clearly what we call 'Capitalist' but they have some similar policies to Corbyn's - Canada and Denmark are examples of these. The last two groups are multi-party systems.

which of the above would you prefer to discuss then?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 11:04:15 PM
The problem is that I can't discuss politics in a simplistic manner. I have a degree in the subject which means that terms such as 'far left' and 'socialist' have to be defined before I can discuss them.

Some countries people describe as 'Communist' call themselves 'Socialist' - Cuba and China for eg. These are usually one-party states who follow Marxist-Leninist ideology. Other countries call themselves 'Socialist' - Guyana and India are examples of these. Others are clearly what we call 'Capitalist' but they have some similar policies to Corbyn's - Canada and Denmark are examples of these. The last two groups are multi-party systems.

which of the above would you prefer to discuss then?
OK you win.  I don't have a degree in politics so as you have the top trump card I may as well bow out now before my lack of in-depth knowledge on the subject is cruelly exposed for all to see.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 11:10:00 PM
The problem is that I can't discuss politics in a simplistic manner. I have a degree in the subject which means that terms such as 'far left' and 'socialist' have to be defined before I can discuss them.

Some countries people describe as 'Communist' call themselves 'Socialist' - Cuba and China for eg. These are usually one-party states who follow Marxist-Leninist ideology. Other countries call themselves 'Socialist' - Guyana and India are examples of these. Others are clearly what we call 'Capitalist' but they have some similar policies to Corbyn's - Canada and Denmark are examples of these. The last two groups are multi-party systems.

which of the above would you prefer to discuss then?

Not much Marxist-Leninist about China these days, G 8(8-))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 11:13:28 PM
Have you heard who the new Shadow Chancellor is yet, Alfred? @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 11:19:47 PM
OK you win.  I don't have a degree in politics so as you have the top trump card I may as well bow out now before my lack of in-depth knowledge on the subject is cruelly exposed for all to see.   @)(++(*

My degree wasn't used as a 'trump card', I just needed to explain why it's difficult for me to discuss politics using every day descriptions, and that I wasn't just being annoying. I could, for example, demonstrate that Russia and China, while both 'socialist' states have completely different ideas of what socialism is.

The Labour Party is, of course a socialist party of some sort.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 11:21:07 PM
Have you heard who the new Shadow Chancellor is yet, Alfred? @)(++(*
Is it Peter Hain? *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 11:24:34 PM
Is it Peter Hain? *&*%£

8(>(( Nope.

John McDonnell. Very brave decision.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 11:28:25 PM
8(>(( Nope.

John McDonnell. Very brave decision.
I know nothing about him.  Why is it brave?  I must admit I enjoyed Tom Watson publicly disagreeing with his leader already today...  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 11:31:05 PM
Not much Marxist-Leninist about China these days, G 8(8-))

Karl Marx predicted that international trade would 'batter down the walls of China'. Quite an impressive prediction to make in the 1840's.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 13, 2015, 11:31:23 PM
OK, just googled him - now I know who (and what) you mean.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 13, 2015, 11:36:28 PM
I know nothing about him.  Why is it brave?  I must admit I enjoyed Tom Watson publicly disagreeing with his leader already today...  @)(++(*

Another honest man in my opinion. The point isn't whether people agree on everything. Coalition governments with differing views manage to reach a consensus, so why can't a party containing people with different views do so?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 13, 2015, 11:42:24 PM
Karl Marx predicted that international trade would 'batter down the walls of China'. Quite an impressive prediction to make in the 1840's.

Very clever chap he was ?{)(** If only he was around today.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 01:11:15 AM
Who was in power when you bogged off then Eleanor? It couldn't have been a left-wing Labour government.

Do you know, I really can't remember.  I had stopped voting altogether by then having come to the conclusion that after they stabbed Margret Thatcher in the back there wasn't a party of any kind worth voting for.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 14, 2015, 08:10:36 AM
Another honest man in my opinion. The point isn't whether people agree on everything. Coalition governments with differing views manage to reach a consensus, so why can't a party containing people with different views do so?
Hmmm, this article is worth a read IMO... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-followers-disillusion-labour-party
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 08:56:32 AM
Hmmm, this article is worth a read IMO... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-followers-disillusion-labour-party

Thanks, Alfred.

Joking aside, and I have done my fair share of that,  only two things are possible.  Corbyn is right or Corbyn is wrong.  So it might be best to wait and watch for a while, and cast personal doubts aside.
Yes, I know this is a load of waffle, especially from me and where I have been sitting for the last twenty years, and paying little attention beyond my State Pension.
But let's face it, none of them seem up to much to me. So can it get any worse?

I do admire Hilary Ben as I did his father before him, neither of them being of my political persuasion, so the appointment of Hilary Ben to The Shadow Cabinet pulled me up short for a minute, although it shouldn't have been a surprise.  It just reminded me that there are honest left wing politicians.  So I am not going to assume that Left Wing Labour have got no chance.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 09:16:51 AM
Hmmm, this article is worth a read IMO... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-followers-disillusion-labour-party

I see the Bennite left gets a mention. Tony Benn was another honest man of principle who was the target of much abuse and then became a 'national treasure'.

I don't think people of principle can succeed in the UK political system, but I admire them for trying. Corbyn was disclosed during the expenses scandal as having claimed the least expenses of any MP. Dave Nellist never drew his full salary, he only took 40% of it and donated the rest to good causes. 

Should Corbyn or any other left-wing Labour leader ever become Prime Minister they will face all the problems which Tony Benn identified as hampering the Labour Government he served in;

How "the Civil Service can frustrate the policies and decisions of popularly elected governments";
The centralised nature of the Labour Party allowing to the Leader to run "the Party almost as if it were his personal kingdom"
"The power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government"; and
The power of the media, which "like the power of the medieval Church, ensures that events of the day are always presented from the point of the view of those who enjoy economic privilege.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 09:29:00 AM
Thanks, Alfred.

Joking aside, and I have done my fair share of that,  only two things are possible.  Corbyn is right or Corbyn is wrong.  So it might be best to wait and watch for a while, and cast personal doubts aside.
Yes, I know this is a load of waffle, especially from me and where I have been sitting for the last twenty years, and paying little attention beyond my State Pension.
But let's face it, none of them seem up to much to me. So can it get any worse?

I do admire Hilary Ben as I did his father before him, neither of them being of my political persuasion, so the appointment of Hilary Ben to The Shadow Cabinet pulled me up short for a minute, although it shouldn't have been a surprise.  It just reminded me that there are honest left wing politicians.  So I am not going to assume that Left Wing Labour have got no chance.

If they get fair reporting from the media they might survive, but that's most unlikely. If the party unites behind them  that would help, but that's also unlikely. The Tories will have to box clever because their tactics against Farage backfired significantly and made him more popular. My reading of that was that he seemed sincere and those attacking him didn't.

Corbyn, like all politicians, will be right about some things and wrong about others. What these people do have is honesty and integrity. We haven't seen much evidence of that in other politicians for a while, but will it be enough?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 09:58:47 AM
Thanks, Alfred.

Joking aside, and I have done my fair share of that,  only two things are possible.  Corbyn is right or Corbyn is wrong.  So it might be best to wait and watch for a while, and cast personal doubts aside.
Yes, I know this is a load of waffle, especially from me and where I have been sitting for the last twenty years, and paying little attention beyond my State Pension.
But let's face it, none of them seem up to much to me. So can it get any worse?

I do admire Hilary Ben as I did his father before him, neither of them being of my political persuasion, so the appointment of Hilary Ben to The Shadow Cabinet pulled me up short for a minute, although it shouldn't have been a surprise.  It just reminded me that there are honest left wing politicians.  So I am not going to assume that Left Wing Labour have got no chance.

Hilary doesn't share most of his dad's politics, and he's not a new appointment (he was in Blair and Brown cabinets).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 10:23:52 AM
If they get fair reporting from the media they might survive, but that's most unlikely. If the party unites behind them  that would help, but that's also unlikely. The Tories will have to box clever because their tactics against Farage backfired significantly and made him more popular. My reading of that was that he seemed sincere and those attacking him didn't.

Corbyn, like all politicians, will be right about some things and wrong about others. What these people do have is honesty and integrity. We haven't seen much evidence of that in other politicians for a while, but will it be enough?

I honestly don't know, G Unit.  You almost certainly have a greater understanding than I, of politics in general, which is how it must be looked at.
Didn't someone famously say that any Party in power for long enough would ultimately get it right?  I remember thinking at the time that this was probably correct on an ideological level.

I do actually agree with some of Corbyn's policies, sad I am to admit it.  But printing millions of pounds of extra money is crazy.

So The Left could have five years.  Five years of future voters growing up, who have no knowledge of previous left wing disasters, and I doubt that many of them will have any understanding of economics.  I don't have all that much myself beyond your average housewife balancing a budget, which hardly anyone worries about these days.  Just pull out the credit card and pay the interest at the end of the month.  Something that my generation wasn't prone to.

I saved really seriously in my years of working here often foregoing luxuries, in the mistaken belief that the interest would help my State Pension, even if only by 10 or 15 Pounds a week.  And we all know how that turned out.

No, I'm not really complaining because I manage okay.  I have always been borderline broke, having put three children through Boarding School because The State System was so awful.  But it all comes down to me in the end.  What could Jeremy Corbyn do for me?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
Hilary doesn't share most of his dad's politics, and he's not a new appointment (he was in Blair and Brown cabinets).

But he is an honest man.  His expenses claims were one of the lowest on record.  And I believe that he will bring some sense to this.

Sheesh, perhaps I should join The Party.  I can just about manage the three quid.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 14, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
But he is an honest man.  His expenses claims were one of the lowest on record.  And I believe that he will bring some sense to this.

Sheesh, perhaps I should join The Party.  I can just about manage the three quid.

His appointment of the new Shadow Chancellor could cause problems, as he has scores to settle with the Blair supporters.

Apparently, he is quite caustic.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 10:48:28 AM
His appointment of the new Shadow Chancellor could cause problems, as he has scores to settle with the Blair supporters.

Apparently, he is quite caustic.

Please tell me who is the new Shadow Chancellor.  I have read so many names, and I am new to this political appraisement after twenty years of trying to ignore it all.  I did think that I knew what was going on back before I left.  But I am now beginning to wonder.

So not all bad at the moment.  At least some of The Electorate are paying attention.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 11:25:26 AM
Please tell me who is the new Shadow Chancellor.  I have read so many names, and I am new to this political appraisement after twenty years of trying to ignore it all.  I did think that I knew what was going on back before I left.  But I am now beginning to wonder.

So not all bad at the moment.  At least some of The Electorate are paying attention.

John McDonnell is the new shadow Chancellor. Both he and Corbyn - for very good reasons - detest mainstream media. There will be fireworks ahead.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 11:29:42 AM
John McDonnell is the new shadow Chancellor. Both he and Corbyn - for very good reasons - detest mainstream media. There will be fireworks ahead.

McDonnell, eh?  Oh Dear. My Clan.  Things have just got a bit more complicated.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 11:34:44 AM
I honestly don't know, G Unit.  You almost certainly have a greater understanding than I, of politics in general, which is how it must be looked at.
Didn't someone famously say that any Party in power for long enough would ultimately get it right?  I remember thinking at the time that this was probably correct on an ideological level.

I do actually agree with some of Corbyn's policies, sad I am to admit it.  But printing millions of pounds of extra money is crazy.

So The Left could have five years.  Five years of future voters growing up, who have no knowledge of previous left wing disasters, and I doubt that many of them will have any understanding of economics.  I don't have all that much myself beyond your average housewife balancing a budget, which hardly anyone worries about these days.  Just pull out the credit card and pay the interest at the end of the month.  Something that my generation wasn't prone to.

I saved really seriously in my years of working here often foregoing luxuries, in the mistaken belief that the interest would help my State Pension, even if only by 10 or 15 Pounds a week.  And we all know how that turned out.

No, I'm not really complaining because I manage okay.  I have always been borderline broke, having put three children through Boarding School because The State System was so awful.  But it all comes down to me in the end.  What could Jeremy Corbyn do for me?

He may not be able to do very much for you, I don't know. But unless people fight, the 'Conservatives' (not that the lot currently in charge are actually traditional conservatives) intend to a) make the rich richer by making the poor poorer, and b) further erode worker's rights hard won by decades of struggle.

He may not be able to make things better for you but the fight is stop Osborne's plans to make things worse, for everyone.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 11:38:43 AM
McDonnell, eh?  Oh Dear. My Clan.  Things have just got a bit more complicated.

Imagine George Galloway being made shadow Chancellor. McDonnell's appointment is almost as revolutionary.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 11:43:03 AM
@johnmcdonnellMP: "A call: 'I'm a journalist from The Sun'
'I said: "You can be one or the other but not both"

@)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 12:09:41 PM
@johnmcdonnellMP: "A call: 'I'm a journalist from The Sun'
'I said: "You can be one or the other but not both"

@)(++(*

A man who shares my opinion of the Sun then.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
I honestly don't know, G Unit.  You almost certainly have a greater understanding than I, of politics in general, which is how it must be looked at.
Didn't someone famously say that any Party in power for long enough would ultimately get it right?  I remember thinking at the time that this was probably correct on an ideological level.

I do actually agree with some of Corbyn's policies, sad I am to admit it.  But printing millions of pounds of extra money is crazy.

So The Left could have five years.  Five years of future voters growing up, who have no knowledge of previous left wing disasters, and I doubt that many of them will have any understanding of economics.  I don't have all that much myself beyond your average housewife balancing a budget, which hardly anyone worries about these days.  Just pull out the credit card and pay the interest at the end of the month.  Something that my generation wasn't prone to.

I saved really seriously in my years of working here often foregoing luxuries, in the mistaken belief that the interest would help my State Pension, even if only by 10 or 15 Pounds a week.  And we all know how that turned out.

No, I'm not really complaining because I manage okay.  I have always been borderline broke, having put three children through Boarding School because The State System was so awful.  But it all comes down to me in the end.  What could Jeremy Corbyn do for me?

My husband and I are pensioners. This year our pensions rose by £2 per week each. Our council tax alone rose by £20 per month, due to Central Government squeezing the Local Councils to make cuts. We don't live in a large property, we live in a small flat.

Dennis Skinner is on Radio 2 with Jeremy Vine. He has just referred to 1945 when the UK was broke. Labour created the NHS, built council houses and created almost full employment within 5 years. He is saying that similar achievements should be no problem as the UK isn't broke now. He is referring to Keynesian economic policies which say that the regular booms and busts which are a feature of capitalist economies need state intervention to balance them out.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 12:49:46 PM

Pensioners have been treated badly by both sides.  Who is ever going to forget the 73 pence Gordon Brown tried to get away with.  While having been deprived illegally of The Winter Fuel Allowance for 15 years, The Tories are now trying to deprive me again because it's warmer down in the South of France.  200 miserable Pounds a year when it is often freezing in Brittany.

Am I ever going to forget the strident voices of all of The Chancellors over the years, telling us how well they are looking after us.  The Basic British State Pension is a joke in France.  You get automatic access to Food Banks if that is all you have for income.  And I have used them in the past.  But I have nothing but admiration for what these people do here.  Never a hint of Charity, although that is what it is.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 01:10:46 PM
A man who shares my opinion of the Sun then.  @)(++(*

%£&)**# Nearly everyone's opinion I think, G.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 01:39:33 PM
The Tories are determined to cut the 'welfare' costs, but what most people don't know is that the largest part of them is state pensions. I'm not a fan of means testing but a lot could be saved if state pensions and child allowances were means tested. I worked up until last year and my boss was rather shamefaced when he told me he had received his first winter fuel allowance. As a very senior tax accountant with a multinational oil company the money was not needed. He had a property in the UK and a Chateau in France to which he later retired with a full salary pension.

I have never been on benefits but my daughter was due to illness. As a single person she wasn't eligible for food banks, even though she received no payments at one point for five weeks. Apparently she hadn't filled out and returned a form they sent her. She had never received the form but they stopped paying her nevertheless. We had to give her money for weeks for food and basic bills. Some people do 'work the system', others are treated abominably. The worry of it made my daughter sicker than she was in the beginning. The government pays private companies to 'assess' those who are ill: they don't believe the GP's. The companies are used to reject as many as they possibly can and force them onto JSA, which pays less.

People claiming JSA are forced to use the internet to apply for jobs. Some older men haven't a clue how to do it, but they get their money stopped if they don't do it. As they're not eligible for food banks and their rent payments are also stopped if their money is stopped they can end up homeless and starving. These are men my daughter has spoken to who have lost their manual jobs through no fault of their own. They are in complete despair.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 01:46:39 PM
But didn't we all, well, most of us, actually pay for our pensions?

Incidentally, French Food Banks are run by a Charity.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 02:12:09 PM
But didn't we all, well, most of us, actually pay for our pensions?

All workers, (employees or self-employed) pay National Insurance contributions. In addition employers pay employer's NI. Your NI payments cease if you work beyond retirement age.

The NI money is supposed to be ring-fenced and used to pay for the NHS, unemployment benefit, sickness and disability allowances and state pensions. DWP  also contribute to Housing Benefit via a subsidy paid to Local councils. The subsidy has been slowly decreasing over the years. The government can borrow from the NI 'pot' to pay for other things if it wishes to.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2015, 03:17:39 PM
All workers, (employees or self-employed) pay National Insurance contributions. In addition employers pay employer's NI. Your NI payments cease if you work beyond retirement age.

The NI money is supposed to be ring-fenced and used to pay for the NHS, unemployment benefit, sickness and disability allowances and state pensions. DWP  also contribute to Housing Benefit via a subsidy paid to Local councils. The subsidy has been slowly decreasing over the years. The government can borrow from the NI 'pot' to pay for other things if it wishes to.

So why should a State Pension be means tested if we paid for it?

And yes indeed, The Government did "Borrow" from the pot to pay for other things, which is why there is a problem with paying Pension.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 14, 2015, 03:27:59 PM
McDonnell, eh?  Oh Dear. My Clan.  Things have just got a bit more complicated.
Yes, he publicly expressed a wish to have been able to go back in time to assassinate Thatcher and is an IRA supporter, both admirable qualities if you're a Corybnista I'm sure...  @)(++(*

PS: What is it with all these "pacifist" hard-left socialists and their admiration for terrorists?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 03:41:48 PM
Jezza sitting on the front bench for the first time just now ?>)()<
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 14, 2015, 03:48:25 PM
Jezza sitting on the front bench for the first time just now ?>)()<
Is it true that he plans to be "elsewhere" for PMQ on Thurdsay, or is it just a vicious rumour?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 03:55:51 PM
Is it true that he plans to be "elsewhere" for PMQ on Thurdsay, or is it just a vicious rumour?

I've no idea. Does it matter? He's not the kind of leader who will be concentrating on PR opportunities.

The party has been asking people to send in questions though, so it's being taken seriously. But the face asking the questions is of secondary importance.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 14, 2015, 03:58:50 PM
I've no idea. Does it matter? He's not the kind of leader who will be concentrating on PR opportunities.

The party has been asking people to send in questions though, so it's being taken seriously. But the face asking the questions is of secondary importance.
I'd say it does matter yes.  If he's not prepared to make an effort with PR opportunities how is he ever going to sell himself to the public? Cycle to every home in the country and set out his policies on a one-to-one basis over a cup of tea?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 14, 2015, 04:00:39 PM
Wait and see %£&)**# It's only day 3.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 14, 2015, 04:01:06 PM
Apparently he will be there - Wednesday, not Thursday - d'oh!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2015, 06:24:04 PM
So why should a State Pension be means tested if we paid for it?

And yes indeed, The Government did "Borrow" from the pot to pay for other things, which is why there is a problem with paying Pension.

The link between what you pay and what you get is quite tenuous. Some people get far more out than others, and not just the high earners. A healthy person who always works and has no children is way behind a disabled person who can't work and has numerous health treatments and children. It's difficult to confirm that someone has 'paid for their pension'. They have contributed to a bundle of benefits is what they've done. By the time they reach pension age they may be in credit, they may not.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 09:23:30 AM
This John McDonnell's a classy bloke isn't he?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/esther-mcvey-lynching-mp-john-8125900

Has this got anything at all to do with why he and his good pal Corbyn are so popular with so many McCann "sceptics"?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 10:11:48 AM
This John McDonnell's a classy bloke isn't he?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/esther-mcvey-lynching-mp-john-8125900

Has this got anything at all to do with why he and his good pal Corbyn are so popular with so many McCann "sceptics"?

Some people may be so shallow, just as some people may be shallow enough to support Cameron because he referred to immigrants as a 'swarm'. This made me wonder why McVey is being attacked?

Esther McVey is committed to and defends sanctioning benefit claimants. She defended the policy at a select committee inquiry into sanctions. The case of a diabetic who died after his electricity was cut off because he was sanctioned and had no money was raised. His sister said 'diabetics can't wait two weeks for a hardship payment to be authorised'

A Labour MP said;

Once again Esther McVey has shown a stunning disregard for the mountain of evidence provided during this inquiry from individuals, academics and organisations who have seen first-hand, or worse experienced, the effect of this government’s inhumane approach to sanctioning, especially against vulnerable people.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/grieving-relative-confronts-dwp-minister-esther-mcvey-after-benefit-sanctions

McVey seems to lack empathy for the disadvantaged of the UK.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 10:16:08 AM
Some people may be so shallow, just as some people may be shallow enough to support Cameron because he referred to immigrants as a 'swarm'. This made me wonder why McVey is being attacked?

Esther McVey is committed to and defends sanctioning benefit claimants. She defended the policy at a select committee inquiry into sanctions. The case of a diabetic who died after his electricity was cut off because he was sanctioned and had no money was raised. His sister said 'diabetics can't wait two weeks for a hardship payment to be authorised'

A Labour MP said;

Once again Esther McVey has shown a stunning disregard for the mountain of evidence provided during this inquiry from individuals, academics and organisations who have seen first-hand, or worse experienced, the effect of this government’s inhumane approach to sanctioning, especially against vulnerable people.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/grieving-relative-confronts-dwp-minister-esther-mcvey-after-benefit-sanctions

McVey seems to lack empathy for the disadvantaged of the UK.
And John McDonnell's solution is to lynch her!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 10:33:15 AM
And John McDonnell's solution is to lynch her!

Did you read the article you posted a link to? As I understood it he never suggested that. He commented about others suggesting it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 10:49:30 AM
Did you read the article you posted a link to? As I understood it he never suggested that. He commented about others suggesting it.

The Hayes and Harlington MP reportedly said: “I was up in Liverpool a fortnight ago where Alec McFadden, one of our (union) organisers, launched the Sack Esther McVey Day on her birthday.

“I spoke at a packed public meeting ... there was a whole group in the audience that completely kicked off quite critical of the whole concept, because they were arguing ‘Why we are sacking her. Why aren’t we lynching the b........?’”

I think it's fair to say he views Esther McVey as a "b........" and that he was paraphrasing the remarks at the public meeting, putting his own interpretation on what was being said - that's how it comes across to me  anyway.  In any case, if he was only repeating calls for her to be lynched why did he not take the opportunity to condemn such disgraceful behaviour?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 11:08:23 AM
The Hayes and Harlington MP reportedly said: “I was up in Liverpool a fortnight ago where Alec McFadden, one of our (union) organisers, launched the Sack Esther McVey Day on her birthday.

“I spoke at a packed public meeting ... there was a whole group in the audience that completely kicked off quite critical of the whole concept, because they were arguing ‘Why we are sacking her. Why aren’t we lynching the b........?’”

I think it's fair to say he views Esther McVey as a "b........" and that he was paraphrasing the remarks at the public meeting, putting his own interpretation on what was being said - that's how it comes across to me  anyway.  In any case, if he was only repeating calls for her to be lynched why did he not take the opportunity to condemn such disgraceful behaviour?

I really don't want to get into discussions which focus on isolated incidents. I don't know what this guy's opinion of McVey is and I don't really care. She seems like a pretty heartless person to me who is determined to support some draconian measures which have been shown to be failing some very vulnerable people. Obviously lynch mobs are not the answer and I don't suppose the suggestion was a serious one. Promoting and defending government policies which lead to people's deaths is pretty hard to justify in this day and age though, so it's hardly surprising that passions run high.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 02:02:20 PM
This John McDonnell's a classy bloke isn't he?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/esther-mcvey-lynching-mp-john-8125900

Has this got anything at all to do with why he and his good pal Corbyn are so popular with so many McCann "sceptics"?

8)--)) Nah, I expect in no small part it's because they detest mainstream media as much as we do.

But also anyone who additionally detests the neoconservatives (of which McVey is very much one) as much as Jezza and his mate will get big thumbs up too.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
Makes you wonder what the sceptic Corbynistas would make of a McCanns declaration of support for their hero, or even vice versa.  Not that I can imagine either scenario very likely....
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 02:30:14 PM
Makes you wonder what the sceptic Corbynistas would make of a McCanns declaration of support for their hero, or even vice versa.  Not that I can imagine either scenario very likely....

You love to speculate on unlikely scenarios, don't you Alfred? Particularly if you can mention the McCanns and do a bit of 'sceptic bashing' too.

I don't support any political party or politician myself. My scepticism extends to politics also.  @)(++(*

However, as a human being I prefer politicians such as Frank Field who care about the poor and disadvantaged to those who attack them. A society is successful only insofar as it cares for it's weakest members in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 02:30:47 PM
Makes you wonder what the sceptic Corbynistas would make of a McCanns declaration of support for their hero, or even vice versa.  Not that I can imagine either scenario very likely....

Tittle tattle, Alfred. Whatever his view of the case is (assuming he has one) is cool.

We saw what happened to John Redwood when he dared to express an opinion. And that's Redwood who wasn't a minister at the time. The Leader of the Opposition has responsibilities.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 02:42:40 PM
Very impressive JC speech at the TUC ?>)()<
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 03:41:09 PM
Tittle tattle, Alfred. Whatever his view of the case is (assuming he has one) is cool.

We saw what happened to John Redwood when he dared to express an opinion. And that's Redwood who wasn't a minister at the time. The Leader of the Opposition has responsibilities.
What happened?  Was he lynched?  I genuinely have no recollection of him expressing an opinion, can't have been that significant.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 03:42:17 PM
You love to speculate on unlikely scenarios, don't you Alfred? Particularly if you can mention the McCanns and do a bit of 'sceptic bashing' too.

I don't support any political party or politician myself. My scepticism extends to politics also.  @)(++(*

However, as a human being I prefer politicians such as Frank Field who care about the poor and disadvantaged to those who attack them. A society is successful only insofar as it cares for it's weakest members in my opinion.

It's (still) a free country and I'm entitled to do whatever I like. 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 03:45:22 PM
Very impressive JC speech at the TUC ?>)()<
"We can win in 2020"??  Talk about speculating on unlikely scenarios..!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 05:33:44 PM
Very impressive JC speech at the TUC ?>)()<

Interesting. Journalists and political commentators don't quite know how to report on Corbyn. No clever spin, no soundbites, just that rare thing - honesty;

it was authentic - and interesting. There was no guff about hardworking families, and none of the coded euphemisms or bland triangulations that litter conventional speeches. The words meant what they were intended to mean. And, idealistic though much of it was, much of what he had to say was refreshingly different.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/15/jeremy-corbyn-speaks-to-the-tuc-conference-politics-live
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 05:57:18 PM
Interesting. Journalists and political commentators don't quite know how to report on Corbyn. No clever spin, no soundbites, just that rare thing - honesty;

it was authentic - and interesting. There was no guff about hardworking families, and none of the coded euphemisms or bland triangulations that litter conventional speeches. The words meant what they were intended to mean. And, idealistic though much of it was, much of what he had to say was refreshingly different.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/15/jeremy-corbyn-speaks-to-the-tuc-conference-politics-live
So was Nick Griffin and look what happened to him. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 07:03:00 PM
So was Nick Griffin and look what happened to him.

Do you think Griffin was honest? I wonder.

There are certainly more differences than similarities. Here's a few for you;

Corbyn - Socialist  Griffin - Fascist
Corbyn - Inclusive Griffin - Racist
Corbyn - Internationalist Griffin - Nationalist
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 07:22:50 PM
Do you think Griffin was honest? I wonder.

There are certainly more differences than similarities. Here's a few for you;

Corbyn - Socialist  Griffin - Fascist
Corbyn - Inclusive Griffin - Racist
Corbyn - Internationalist Griffin - Nationalist
In fact there are some similarities in some of the policies Nick Griffin's BNP were offering in 2010 to Corbyn's policies but that wasn't really what I was referring to.  I meant that Griffin was not your typical politician, he stood up for his beliefs which he seemed to believe in passionately and said things publicly which the media then used to turn him into a pariah and laughing stock.  He also surrounded himself with a bunch of uneducated dimwits who managed to be even more crass and controversial and inept than he was. Not saying that all of the Shadow Cabinet matches that description but I can think of at least two that do (IMO).   They also both despise(d) Israel (Jews) and fraternise(d) with terrorists.  Apart from that completely different.  Griffin wanted to expel all immigrants whilst Corbyn wants to welcome anyone in the world who wants to live here.  Both completely crazy policies IMO.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 07:32:58 PM
In fact there are some similarities in some of the policies Nick Griffin's BNP were offering in 2010 to Corbyn's policies but that wasn't really what I was referring to.  I meant that Griffin was not your typical politician, he stood up for his beliefs which he seemed to believe in passionately and said things publicly which the media then used to turn him into a pariah and laughing stock.  He also surrounded himself with a bunch of uneducated dimwits who managed to be even more crass and controversial and inept than he was. Not saying that all of the Shadow Cabinet matches that description but I can think of at least two that do (IMO).   They also both despise(d) Israel (Jews) and fraternise(d) with terrorists.  Apart from that completely different.  Griffin wanted to expel all immigrants whilst Corbyn wants to welcome anyone in the world who wants to live here.  Both completely crazy policies IMO.

The media demonises anyone different who won't play their games. There are few journalists who are honest and have integrity that's for sure.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 07:37:00 PM
The media demonises anyone different who won't play their games. There are few journalists who are honest and have integrity that's for sure.
As a politician you have to play the game, otherwise you'll get shafted, you'd have to be a fool or rather naïve to throw the gauntlet down at them.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 08:04:41 PM
In fact there are some similarities in some of the policies Nick Griffin's BNP were offering in 2010 to Corbyn's policies but that wasn't really what I was referring to.  I meant that Griffin was not your typical politician, he stood up for his beliefs which he seemed to believe in passionately and said things publicly which the media then used to turn him into a pariah and laughing stock.  He also surrounded himself with a bunch of uneducated dimwits who managed to be even more crass and controversial and inept than he was. Not saying that all of the Shadow Cabinet matches that description but I can think of at least two that do (IMO).   They also both despise(d) Israel (Jews) and fraternise(d) with terrorists.  Apart from that completely different.  Griffin wanted to expel all immigrants whilst Corbyn wants to welcome anyone in the world who wants to live here.  Both completely crazy policies IMO.

Actually he may personally want to leave the EU, which would end most of the immigration.

I don't agree with him, if that is his view, but you're wrong again, Alfred %£&)**#
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 08:08:59 PM
As a politician you have to play the game, otherwise you'll get shafted, you'd have to be a fool or rather naïve to throw the gauntlet down at them.

Yes, we know they'll do to him what they did to Peter Tatchell. But Miliband tried what you propose, and the papers ran propaganda campaigns against him anyway.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 08:12:39 PM
Interesting. Journalists and political commentators don't quite know how to report on Corbyn. No clever spin, no soundbites, just that rare thing - honesty;

it was authentic - and interesting. There was no guff about hardworking families, and none of the coded euphemisms or bland triangulations that litter conventional speeches. The words meant what they were intended to mean. And, idealistic though much of it was, much of what he had to say was refreshingly different.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/sep/15/jeremy-corbyn-speaks-to-the-tuc-conference-politics-live

 %£&)**# Good words, G. He is impressing a lot of people, not least I think because there's no aggression when he speaks. That's very unusual in modern politics.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 08:55:13 PM
%£&)**# Good words, G. He is impressing a lot of people, not least I think because there's no aggression when he speaks. That's very unusual in modern politics.

Politics has been dominated for years by professional politicians whose main aim has been developing their careers. To that end they have steered clear of controversy. Corbyn has held controversial opinions throughout his political career and suddenly people have voted him in as leader of one of the main parties. That landslide victory carries a message for all those who have spent years being mealy-mouthed and toeing the party line. People are sick of it. They want commitment and honesty.

Younger people today are different also. The left have traditionally been defeated by name-calling (loony left etc). Younger people are likely to call that bullying and they won't like it, just as they didn't like it when it was tried on Farage. Those wishing to defeat Corbyn are going to have to dust off their brains and defeat him by using factual debate rather than soundbites. They are going to have to justify their policies and beliefs sensibly. Do they have the brains after so long of letting them lie fallow? We shall see.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 09:00:11 PM
Actually he may personally want to leave the EU, which would end most of the immigration.

I don't agree with him, if that is his view, but you're wrong again, Alfred %£&)**#
what am I wrong about Lyall?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 09:43:29 PM
what am I wrong about Lyall?

You're reading what people say are his policies, not the actual policies.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 15, 2015, 09:50:32 PM
Politics has been dominated for years by professional politicians whose main aim has been developing their careers. To that end they have steered clear of controversy. Corbyn has held controversial opinions throughout his political career and suddenly people have voted him in as leader of one of the main parties. That landslide victory carries a message for all those who have spent years being mealy-mouthed and toeing the party line. People are sick of it. They want commitment and honesty.

Younger people today are different also. The left have traditionally been defeated by name-calling (loony left etc). Younger people are likely to call that bullying and they won't like it, just as they didn't like it when it was tried on Farage. Those wishing to defeat Corbyn are going to have to dust off their brains and defeat him by using factual debate rather than soundbites. They are going to have to justify their policies and beliefs sensibly. Do they have the brains after so long of letting them lie fallow? We shall see.

The Tories have declared war on the young, whether they're working, studying, or do something else instead. (New Labour did start the process though.)

In fact they've declared war on every group, except drivers and the retired (both groups being too powerful to take on).

You're right, the young are thinking differently to the rest of the country. They've have had enough of being made to pay for the mistakes/greed of the financial institutions. It was their votes that elected Corbyn.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2015, 10:14:26 PM
The Tories have declared war on the young, whether they're working, studying, or do something else instead. (New Labour did start the process though.)

In fact they've declared war on every group, except drivers and the retired (both groups being too powerful to take on).

You're right, the young are thinking differently to the rest of the country. They've have had enough of being made to pay for the mistakes/greed of the financial institutions. It was their votes that elected Corbyn.

People used to copy their parent's voting patterns. There was some measure of respect for one's 'betters'. They chose their party and stuck with it. Today's young people will vote differently in different elections. They expect to be informed. They have better BS detection capabilities. Most of them are not nationalistic and definitely not racist.
They suffer most from unemployment and zero hours contracts. They are the ones leaving university and having to work in Greggs or in a call centre. They're the force to be reckoned with, they're the ones that count, they're the future.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 10:31:07 PM
You're reading what people say are his policies, not the actual policies.
which bit, specifically, did I get wrong then?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 15, 2015, 10:32:44 PM
People used to copy their parent's voting patterns. There was some measure of respect for one's 'betters'. They chose their party and stuck with it. Today's young people will vote differently in different elections. They expect to be informed. They have better BS detection capabilities. Most of them are not nationalistic and definitely not racist.
They suffer most from unemployment and zero hours contracts. They are the ones leaving university and having to work in Greggs or in a call centre. They're the force to be reckoned with, they're the ones that count, they're the future.
A huge number of gross generalisations there then!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 15, 2015, 11:11:01 PM
Do you think Griffin was honest? I wonder.

There are certainly more differences than similarities. Here's a few for you;

Corbyn - Socialist  Griffin - Fascist
Corbyn - Inclusive Griffin - Racist
Corbyn - Internationalist Griffin - Nationalist

Wow quite a lively debate going on here  ?>)()< and I get to mingle with some of the McCann debaters  8(>((

I'm not sure what your definition of "Internationalist" is G-Unit but doesn't JC want to leave NATO? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 15, 2015, 11:36:37 PM
Not much Marxist-Leninist about China these days, G 8(8-))

Hmmm and as far as I'm aware it's the only country where the authorities place an upper and lower limit on its main stock exchange.  Anything above or below results in a suspension of trading.  How can that be in a country supposedly operating a free market economy.

The government has also encouraged small investors ie Joe Average to plough their life savings directly into stocks and shares.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 07:18:22 AM
Wow quite a lively debate going on here  ?>)()< and I get to mingle with some of the McCann debaters  8(>((

I'm not sure what your definition of "Internationalist" is G-Unit but doesn't JC want to leave NATO?

NATO is a military alliance and Corbyn is anti-war. I was thinking more along the lines of internationalism in a socialist sense.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 08:53:12 AM
NATO is a military alliance and Corbyn is anti-war. I was thinking more along the lines of internationalism in a socialist sense.

Ok thanks but he is a Eurosceptic?

Yes he's anti-war and I guess most are?  I can see it might be possible to negotiate peaceful solutions with the likes of Hamas and the IRA who have clear objectives ie state of Palestine and a united Ireland.  But is it ever possible to enter into negotiations with the likes of the Nazis and Isis when it involves political and religious ideologies? 

If JC removes Little Britain from NATO and scraps Trident will UK citizens sleep easier?   

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ira-apartheid-iraq-war-hamas-jeremy-corbyn-has-been-right-side-history-1519816

Could I find myself forced to don a burqa, pray 5 times a day  and having to give up my Pinot Grigio?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 09:16:00 AM
Ok thanks but he is a Eurosceptic?

Yes he's anti-war and I guess most are?  I can see it might be possible to negotiate peaceful solutions with the likes of Hamas and the IRA who have clear objectives ie state of Palestine and a united Ireland.  But is it ever possible to enter into negotiations with the likes of the Nazis and Isis when it involves political and religious ideologies? 

If JC removes Little Britain from NATO and scraps Trident will UK citizens sleep easier?   

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ira-apartheid-iraq-war-hamas-jeremy-corbyn-has-been-right-side-history-1519816

Could I find myself forced to don a burqa, pray 5 times a day  and having to give up my Pinot Grigio?
Personally I'd like to see Corbyn volunteer to have face to face peace talks with ISIS - let's see how he gets on there. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 09:21:26 AM
Personally I'd like to see Corbyn volunteer to have face to face peace talks with ISIS - let's see how he gets on there.

Think you might mean beard to beard  8)-)))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
Think you might mean beard to beard  8)-)))
@)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 10:52:30 AM

Well, I am a teensy bit pissed off by the fact that he refused to sing The National Anthem.  Okay, I am a Royalist, but this was simply respect for those who died to give him the right to be who he is.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 11:05:29 AM
Ok thanks but he is a Eurosceptic?

Yes he's anti-war and I guess most are?  I can see it might be possible to negotiate peaceful solutions with the likes of Hamas and the IRA who have clear objectives ie state of Palestine and a united Ireland.  But is it ever possible to enter into negotiations with the likes of the Nazis and Isis when it involves political and religious ideologies? 

If JC removes Little Britain from NATO and scraps Trident will UK citizens sleep easier?   

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ira-apartheid-iraq-war-hamas-jeremy-corbyn-has-been-right-side-history-1519816

Could I find myself forced to don a burqa, pray 5 times a day  and having to give up my Pinot Grigio?

All political and religious beliefs are 'ideologies'. The Nazi's objective was expansion. ISIS's objective is to fulfill the will of god as they interpret it. They believe they are the engine of the apocalypse. I have no idea if negotiation is possible as they are uncompromising in their beliefs and aims. Not sure if they want to come here, though.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 11:10:53 AM
All political and religious beliefs are 'ideologies'. The Nazi's objective was expansion. ISIS's objective is to fulfill the will of god as they interpret it. They believe they are the engine of the apocalypse. I have no idea if negotiation is possible as they are uncompromising in their beliefs and aims. Not sure if they want to come here, though.
ISIS want Islam to dominate the world, of course they want to come here!!! 

ETA: if negotiation is not possible, then what?  Just let them get on with it?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 11:15:11 AM
Well, I am a teensy bit pissed off by the fact that he refused to sing The National Anthem.  Okay, I am a Royalist, but this was simply respect for those who died to give him the right to be who he is.
It was beyond childish of him, like a petulant teenager in church refusing to sing hymns.  Oh well, roll on PMQs, not long now...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 11:25:12 AM
It was beyond childish of him, like a petulant teenager in church refusing to sing hymns.  Oh well, roll on PMQs, not long now...

The perfect opportunity for him to stay away.  Why didn't he?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 11:32:45 AM
Well, I am a teensy bit pissed off by the fact that he refused to sing The National Anthem.  Okay, I am a Royalist, but this was simply respect for those who died to give him the right to be who he is.

How does singing the National Anthem demonstrate respect for those who died? I thought it demonstrated support for the Monarchy?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 11:34:43 AM
The perfect opportunity for him to stay away.  Why didn't he?
That would have been even more controversial tbh.  He's already having to swallow his principles and agree to wearing a poppy for Remembrance Sunday, however it remains to be seen what colour poppy he will wear.  He needs to understand that things like this matter to the average man and woman in the street, and that not all the electorate hate British traditions and history as he seems to.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 11:36:14 AM
How does singing the National Anthem demonstrate respect for those who died? I thought it demonstrated support for the Monarchy?
Why don't you ask that question of the 90+ year old ex-servicemen who were there?  One or two of them seemed to have firm views on the matter.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 11:49:55 AM
How does singing the National Anthem demonstrate respect for those who died? I thought it demonstrated support for the Monarchy?

Then you don't understand The National Anthem.  The operative word is "National."
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 11:54:36 AM
Why don't you ask that question of the 90+ year old ex-servicemen who were there?  One or two of them seemed to have firm views on the matter.

The firmness of an opinion has no bearing whatsoever on the correctness of it. If Corbyn, as a republican, had sung the anthem he would have been castigated by the press for being a hypocrite. We have enough hypocrites already, thanks.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 16, 2015, 12:01:35 PM
The firmness of an opinion has no bearing whatsoever on the correctness of it. If Corbyn, as a republican, had sung the anthem he would have been castigated by the press for being a hypocrite. We have enough hypocrites already, thanks.

Indeed.

I totally agree.

As to the monarchy, someone once said to the effect, though I can't recall who, 'they are the largest monetary recipients of the benefits system'.

The actual words were stronger than that, but would have been deleted.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 12:08:14 PM
Then you don't understand The National Anthem.  The operative word is "National."

Read it. All about the Monarchy and nationalism with a little nod to brotherly love in verse 4. Do you like verse 6?

1. God save our gracious Queen
Long live our noble Queen
God save the Queen
Send her victorious
Happy and glorious
Long to reign over us
God save the Queen
2. O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all
3. Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour
Long may she reign
May she defend our laws
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen
4. Not in this land alone
But be God's mercies known
From shore to shore
Lord make the nations see
That men should brothers be
And form one family
The wide world over
5. From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!
6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 12:30:12 PM
Well, I am a teensy bit pissed off by the fact that he refused to sing The National Anthem.  Okay, I am a Royalist, but this was simply respect for those who died to give him the right to be who he is.

&%&£(+ And also the right not to sing the anthem.

Especially those killed or maimed in our many wars who were republicans. They are respected by not singing that dreadful anthem.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 16, 2015, 12:38:20 PM
Now what does the bible say about worshiping false gods ?

Also, in regards to not putting one man (or woman) above others.

and why should 'God save our gracious queen' ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 12:41:00 PM
&%&£(+ And also the right not to sing the anthem.

Especially those killed or maimed in our many wars who were republicans. They are respected by not singing that dreadful anthem.

The rights enjoyed by British citizens exist because people fought for them against an absolute Monarchy and an entrenched upper class. They were not granted to them from the goodness of the Monarch's heart.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 12:45:55 PM
Indeed.

I totally agree.

As to the monarchy, someone once said to the effect, though I can't recall who, 'they are the largest monetary recipients of the benefits system'.

The actual words were stronger than that, but would have been deleted.

The Monarchy, many moons ago, handed over vast amounts of Crown Property to The Government in exchange for The Civil List.  This was a Contract which cannot be abnegated.  The Government receives far more income from these Crown Properties than are spent on The Civil List.
So let's get some facts right here.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 12:49:15 PM

I despair.  Have your Republic for all I care.  Elect Blair or Corbyn and then see.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 12:55:29 PM
The firmness of an opinion has no bearing whatsoever on the correctness of it. If Corbyn, as a republican, had sung the anthem he would have been castigated by the press for being a hypocrite. We have enough hypocrites already, thanks.
He may like to think he made a principled stand, but  I'm afraid (read - glad) it won't be a vote winner, this anti-monarchist stance of his.  Most people (IMO) want a leader of Britain who has some pride in their country, and who respects British tradition and customs, and he clearly isn't and doesn't. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 12:57:33 PM
Anyway, PMQs anyone?  I thought Jezzer rather handed it to the PM on a plate but no doubt the Corbynistas viewed it as a marvellous victory for their man.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 12:58:05 PM
The rights enjoyed by British citizens exist because people fought for them against an absolute Monarchy and an entrenched upper class. They were not granted to them from the goodness of the Monarch's heart.

8@??)( Well said.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:03:11 PM
He may like to think he made a principled stand, but  I'm afraid (read - glad) it won't be a vote winner, this anti-monarchist stance of his.  Most people (IMO) want a leader of Britain who has some pride in their country, and who respects British tradition and customs, and he clearly isn't and doesn't.

We do have pride in the country, but that pride is looking to it's future, not in constantly celebrating a heavily censored view of the past.

Cameron fetishes the military, just like Blair did, and they do it to assist them in avoiding responsibility for their disastrous actions in Iraq, Libya and other places.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:07:25 PM
I despair.  Have your Republic for all I care.  Elect Blair or Corbyn and then see.

&%+((£ There's no chance right now of getting rid of the royals. But isn't it high time republicans didn't have to hide their opinions? Politicians, governments and people have been wrapping themselves in the flag and appealing to ill-informed 'patriots' for far too long.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:11:12 PM
Anyway, PMQs anyone?  I thought Jezzer rather handed it to the PM on a plate but no doubt the Corbynistas viewed it as a marvellous victory for their man.

It's not going to be his strength. Cameron is without doubt a very proficient politician (aka spinner). Shame he's such a weak PM though.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 01:14:06 PM
The Monarchy, many moons ago, handed over vast amounts of Crown Property to The Government in exchange for The Civil List.  This was a Contract which cannot be abnegated.  The Government receives far more income from these Crown Properties than are spent on The Civil List.
So let's get some facts right here.

I wonder how they came to own all that property? Did they work for it? Did they buy it? I think mostly they just grabbed it, didn't they?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 01:20:00 PM
&%+((£ There's no chance right now of getting rid of the royals. But isn't it high time republicans didn't have to hide their opinions? Politicians, governments and people have been wrapping themselves in the flag and appealing to ill-informed 'patriots' for far too long.

What is a Patriot?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 01:23:15 PM
I wonder how they came to own all that property? Did they work for it? Did they buy it? I think mostly they just grabbed it, didn't they?

If you want to go back to Henry the Eight and what he nicked from the Monasteries, or Elizabeth the First and The Spanish Armada, among other things, then we could be in for a very long discussion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 01:27:46 PM
We do have pride in the country, but that pride is looking to it's future, not in constantly celebrating a heavily censored view of the past.

Cameron fetishes the military, just like Blair did, and they do it to assist them in avoiding responsibility for their disastrous actions in Iraq, Libya and other places.
Who is "we"?  There is no future for a Britain that won't defend itself either ideologically, culturally or physically.  Corbyn gives the impression that Britain won't be safe in his hands and people won't like that.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:35:35 PM
Who is "we"?  There is no future for a Britain that won't defend itself either ideologically, culturally or physically.  Corbyn gives the impression that Britain won't be safe in his hands and people won't like that.

"We" is all those you're saying have no pride in the country, including JC. But it is true to say we have no pride in a country that's being run to make the wealthy wealthier, and the poor poorer, as it is currently.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:39:59 PM
What is a Patriot?

Nationalists I should have said. The word "patriots" is too clouded and confused by events and images from the US these days. Thankfully we're not that absurd here yet.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 01:42:55 PM
"We" is all those you're saying have no pride in the country, including JC. But it is true to say we have no pride in a country that's being run to make the wealthy wealthier, and the poor poorer, as it is currently.
Pride in one's country supersedes politics, or it should do.  It is about the people, the countryside, the culture, the customs, the history, the achievements across many fields of endeavour.  It's a complex alchemy of all of these things. People who turn their back on important British symbols come across as a bit suspect in the eyes of the GBP, and that's a fact that Jeremy really needs to understand if he wants to be PM. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:43:25 PM
If you want to go back to Henry the Eight and what he nicked from the Monasteries, or Elizabeth the First and The Spanish Armada, among other things, then we could be in for a very long discussion.

And David Starkey might turn up 8)-))) Richard III's biggest fan.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 01:47:08 PM
If you want to go back to Henry the Eight and what he nicked from the Monasteries, or Elizabeth the First and The Spanish Armada, among other things, then we could be in for a very long discussion.

You started it. I see it more as a case of giving back, not donating.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:47:14 PM
Pride in one's country supersedes politics, or it should do.  It is about the people, the countryside, the culture, the customs, the history, the achievements across many fields of endeavour.  It's a complex alchemy of all of these things. People who turn their back on important British symbols come across as a bit suspect in the eyes of the GBP, and that's a fact that Jeremy really needs to understand if he wants to be PM.

Symbols? What symbols? The anthem and the royals? You really think they're that important to most British people? I don't.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 01:49:18 PM
And David Starkey might turn up 8)-))) Richard III's biggest fan.

Would you and I be talking about the same David Starky?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 01:54:34 PM
Would you and I be talking about the same David Starky?

 %£&)**# I was being ironic.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 01:54:51 PM
You started it. I see it more as a case of giving back, not donating.

I merely pointed out The Facts.  And it wasn't a donation.  It was an exchange of a contract.  The Crown does not receive Benefits.
Personally, if I were The Queen I would ask for it to be given back and then bog off somewhere a jolly sight warmer.  Perhaps you should read "In the Wet" by Neville Shute.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 01:59:39 PM
%£&)**# I was being ironic.

What else could anyone do with David Starky?  Or perhaps you thought I didn't know what he stands for.  But then even his opinions are only opinions.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 02:19:45 PM
What else could anyone do with David Starky?  Or perhaps you thought I didn't know what he stands for.  But then even his opinions are only opinions.

I knew you knew, from the time of the reburial and Starkey's TV appearance, when he insulted an author or something. There was much hilarity at the time (for some of us).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 02:27:48 PM
Symbols? What symbols? The anthem and the royals? You really think they're that important to most British people? I don't.
Yes, I do think that, I'm amazed you don't  - the Queen is a symbol as well as a human being and the majority of British support the monarchy - look at any opinion poll for proof.  Attend any sporting event where the national anthem is sung and the majority of the crowd will be singing it, and with gusto and sometimes tears in their eyes.  The poppy is another symbol that people wear with pride and expect their leaders to wear when out in public.  Now tell me I'm wrong again. *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 02:29:50 PM
So, all those who applaud Corbyn for not being a hypocrite and standing by his principles in not singing the national anthem, what will your opinion be of your man when he's next put on the spot and finds himself joining in with the singing as seems very likely? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 02:30:44 PM
You're more right about the poppies than the anthem. Tears in their eyes? Oh dear %56&
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
So, all those who applaud Corbyn for not being a hypocrite and standing by his principles in not singing the national anthem, what will your opinion be of your man when he's next put on the spot and finds himself joining in with the singing as seems very likely?

We understand he has the entire media against him, and they're determined to get rid of the man. The drip, drip, drip effect of their constant negative campaigning is not a million miles away from brainwashing.

Of course Corbyn can't just ignore that.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 02:49:25 PM
I merely pointed out The Facts.  And it wasn't a donation.  It was an exchange of a contract.  The Crown does not receive Benefits.
Personally, if I were The Queen I would ask for it to be given back and then bog off somewhere a jolly sight warmer.  Perhaps you should read "In the Wet" by Neville Shute.

If you say so Eleanor. We'll just forget the overspending and debts which led to it..

Have you read 'The Queen and I' by Sue Townsend? That was a good read.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 02:56:32 PM
If you say so Eleanor. We'll just forget the overspending and debts which led to it..

Have you read 'The Queen and I' by Sue Townsend? That was a good read.

I prefer Novels.  They are more likely to be correct.

Who is Sue Townsend, by the way?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:05:38 PM
You're more right about the poppies than the anthem. Tears in their eyes? Oh dear %56&
That is a poor response.  Are you not aware of the British public's (growing) support for and confidence in the monarchy? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/10206708/Confidence-in-British-monarchy-at-all-time-high-poll-shows.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:06:05 PM
We understand he has the entire media against him, and they're determined to get rid of the man. The drip, drip, drip effect of their constant negative campaigning is not a million miles away from brainwashing.

Of course Corbyn can't just ignore that.
If he had any principles he would.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 03:06:27 PM
Pride in one's country supersedes politics, or it should do.  It is about the people, the countryside, the culture, the customs, the history, the achievements across many fields of endeavour.  It's a complex alchemy of all of these things. People who turn their back on important British symbols come across as a bit suspect in the eyes of the GBP, and that's a fact that Jeremy really needs to understand if he wants to be PM.

A lot of which were shaped by political decisions.

There are a wide variety of ways of being proud of your country and a wide variety of reasons for it. There is always room for improvement, and people's views on how to do that are also very different. Symbols change - Britannia was a very popular symbol in Victorian times, but not so much now. How many younger people know how to hang the Union flag correctly? How many younger people remember the beautiful wild flowers and scents that I remember from my childhood?

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:08:46 PM
A lot of which were shaped by political decisions.

There are a wide variety of ways of being proud of your country and a wide variety of reasons for it. There is always room for improvement, and people's views on how to do that are also very different. Symbols change - Britannia was a very popular symbol in Victorian times, but not so much now. How many younger people know how to hang the Union flag correctly? How many younger people remember the beautiful wild flowers and scents that I remember from my childhood?

My son does, for one.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 03:11:44 PM
Yes, I do think that, I'm amazed you don't  - the Queen is a symbol as well as a human being and the majority of British support the monarchy - look at any opinion poll for proof.  Attend any sporting event where the national anthem is sung and the majority of the crowd will be singing it, and with gusto and sometimes tears in their eyes.  The poppy is another symbol that people wear with pride and expect their leaders to wear when out in public.  Now tell me I'm wrong again. *&*%£

The Queen is much respected and admired, but even she got it wrong when Diana died. Opinions can change very quickly.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:12:41 PM
You're more right about the poppies than the anthem. Tears in their eyes? Oh dear %56&

Tears in their eyes?  Did you not watch the Olympics 2012?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/london-2012-survey-shows-games-has-boosted-national-pride-8026251.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 03:13:37 PM
My son does, for one.

That's one then.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:14:12 PM
The Queen is much respected and admired, but even she got it wrong when Diana died. Opinions can change very quickly.
And just as quickly they can change back again.  Don't expect anything less than an unprecedented national outpouring of grief on her death which will no doubt leave all Republicans sick to their stomach. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:15:42 PM
That's one then.
I doubt he's the only one.  Out of interest do you think it matters which way up the Union Jack is hung?  Wouldn't a red flag be far easier?  8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 03:21:09 PM
I doubt he's the only one.  Out of interest do you think it matters which way up the Union Jack is hung?  Wouldn't a red flag be far easier?  8(0(*

Power to the People ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 03:28:15 PM
To get back to the thread, the general consensus seems to be that Corbyn did OK at PMQ's. Using questions from the public was a smart move.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:33:56 PM
To get back to the thread, the general consensus seems to be that Corbyn did OK at PMQ's. Using questions from the public was a smart move.
Good for him, he must be mighty relieved he didn't give the media any ammunition on this occasion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 03:45:14 PM
The Queen is much respected and admired, but even she got it wrong when Diana died. Opinions can change very quickly.

I don't think she did get it wrong about Diana, and I am not alone.  And who knows what she decided to do, or what she was bullied into.  She had two grieving grandsons on her hands who were far more important at the time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 03:50:32 PM
I don't think she did get it wrong about Diana, and I am not alone.  And who knows what she decided to do, or what she was bullied into.  She had two grieving grandsons on her hands who were far more important at the time.

Then you, Queen and David Starkey were united on that occasion.

All of you living in denial together.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 03:52:51 PM
Then you, Queen and David Starkey were united on that occasion.

All of you living in denial together.
No need to be nasty.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 03:53:21 PM
Then you, Queen and David Starkey were united on that occasion.

All of you living in denial together.

Denial of what?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 04:00:09 PM
No need to be nasty.

Moi? Never.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 04:03:25 PM
Denial of what?

The nation's (or most of it) regard for Diana. I was no fan but at least she communicated with ordinary folk and didn't behave like we were still in the 19th century.

If you say the 'Monarchy' is more popular now than ever, it's her sons (and their partners) responsible for it, not the rest of that family.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 04:13:48 PM
The nation's (or most of it) regard for Diana. I was no fan but at least she communicated with ordinary folk and didn't behave like we were still in the 19th century.

If you say the 'Monarchy' is more popular now than ever, it's her sons (and their partners) responsible for it, not the rest of that family.
The Queen was 'monstered' by the mawkish media at the time, just as Corbyn is now, I  thought you'd have more sympathy with her position tbh.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 04:23:01 PM
The Queen was 'monstered' by the mawkish media at the time, just as Corbyn is now, I  thought you'd have more sympathy with her position tbh.

Nah. All they wanted her to do was fly the flag at half-mast, but the royalists kept bleating "Tradition! Tradition!". Say no more.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 04:25:02 PM
Nah. All they wanted her to do was fly the flag at half-mast, but the royalists kept bleating "Tradition! Tradition!". Say no more.
She was bullied into it, in much the same way as Corbyn has been bullied into singing the NA.  Amazed you refuse to see the parallels.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 04:33:22 PM
She was bullied into it, in much the same way as Corbyn has been bullied into singing the NA.  Amazed you refuse to see the parallels.

Bullied into flying a flag at half-mast? If that was some huge trauma then that says it all. They must have been as detached as the Romanovs.

The media would done as privately briefed, as they usually do, but couldn't ignore the people on the streets. Sometimes you just can't ignore the people! Unless you're the Windsors that is.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 04:40:06 PM
Bullied into flying a flag at half-mast? If that was some huge trauma then that says it all. They must have been as detached as the Romanovs.

The media would done as privately briefed, as they usually do, but couldn't ignore the people on the streets. Sometimes you just can't ignore the people! Unless you're the Windsors that is.

You can't fly a flag at half mast if there is no flag.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 04:42:42 PM
You can't fly a flag at half mast if there is no flag.

There was one in the cupboard though 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 04:45:00 PM
Bullied into flying a flag at half-mast? If that was some huge trauma then that says it all. They must have been as detached as the Romanovs.

The media would done as privately briefed, as they usually do, but couldn't ignore the people on the streets. Sometimes you just can't ignore the people! Unless you're the Windsors that is.
So, the flying of the flag at half-mast was a trivial matter, then - much as Corbyn not singing the NA, but blown out of all proportion by the media who spurred on the baying mob, or was it vice versa?  Either way it would not have been an issue for national discussion if the media hadn't picked it up and run with it.  Methinks it is you in denial here Lyall, or expressing some double standards...

Yes the Monarchy IS detached, but that's hardly surprising, it's how they are, like it or loathe it.  We know you loathe it and would rather President Prescott be greeting heads of state in his Jaguar, but most people wouldn't!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:02:57 PM
So, the flying of the flag at half-mast was a trivial matter, then - much as Corbyn not singing the NA, but blown out of all proportion by the media who spurred on the baying mob, or was it vice versa?  Either way it would not have been an issue for national discussion if the media hadn't picked it up and run with it.  Methinks it is you in denial here Lyall, or expressing some double standards...

Yes the Monarchy IS detached, but that's hardly surprising, it's how they are, like it or loathe it.  We know you loathe it and would rather President Prescott be greeting heads of state in his Jaguar, but most people wouldn't!

You're really equating one non-singing of the anthem with the death of a woman that brought millions out onto the streets? One event is trivial. The other clearly wasn't.

Part of the problem is that royalists are out of touch too. It was just a flag!

Truth is though they knew it was just a flag, and didn't even want to do that much. And people knew it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:03:53 PM
So, the flying of the flag at half-mast was a trivial matter, then - much as Corbyn not singing the NA, but blown out of all proportion by the media who spurred on the baying mob, or was it vice versa?  Either way it would not have been an issue for national discussion if the media hadn't picked it up and run with it.  Methinks it is you in denial here Lyall, or expressing some double standards...

Yes the Monarchy IS detached, but that's hardly surprising, it's how they are, like it or loathe it.  We know you loathe it and would rather President Prescott be greeting heads of state in his Jaguar, but most people wouldn't!

Years ago whole towns turned out if the Queen visited. Schoolchildren lined the streets with flags to wave. A few years ago she visited my town and we left work to see her pass. There was no-one else waiting on the street except the three of us. Only a couple of schools bothered to take the children to see her. I think they move the (small) crowd around nowadays so they're on camera, like they used to do on 'Top pf the Pops'.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 05:09:14 PM
There was one in the cupboard though 8(0(*

Then you obviously don't know what the flag means.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 05:09:32 PM
Just read the BBC are putting on repeats of Citizen Smith to reflect JC's leadership win  8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:13:16 PM
Years ago whole towns turned out if the Queen visited. Schoolchildren lined the streets with flags to wave. A few years ago she visited my town and we left work to see her pass. There was no-one else waiting on the street except the three of us. Only a couple of schools bothered to take the children to see her. I think they move the (small) crowd around nowadays so they're on camera, like they used to do on 'Top pf the Pops'.
@)(++(*  So, you're point is...?  The Queen is no longer popular with the people?  Really??  Because that's not the impression one gets from recent royal events.  Must be quite a large rent-a-mob they've got going on then.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:14:58 PM
You're really equating one non-singing of the anthem with the death of a woman that brought millions out onto the streets? One event is trivial. The other clearly wasn't.

Part of the problem is that royalists are out of touch too. It was just a flag!

Truth is though they knew it was just a flag, and didn't even want to do that much. And people knew it.

My town was empty the day of Diana's funeral. We walked to a local pub which was empty, just two bar staff hunched over a small radio. Everyone was watching the funeral on TV unless they went to London or Althorp. My daughter went there and there were hundreds lining the motorway. It was quite clear that day and in the preceding days where the nation's sympathy lay, and it was with Diana and her sons, no-one else.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:16:04 PM
Just read the BBC are putting on repeats of Citizen Smith to reflect JC's leadership win  8)--))

Power to the people!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:16:47 PM
Just read the BBC are putting on repeats of Citizen Smith to reflect JC's leadership win  8)--))

Awesome 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:17:31 PM
You're really equating one non-singing of the anthem with the death of a woman that brought millions out onto the streets? One event is trivial. The other clearly wasn't.

Part of the problem is that royalists are out of touch too. It was just a flag!

Truth is though they knew it was just a flag, and didn't even want to do that much. And people knew it.
Errr...no, it was you that intimated it was no big deal to fly the flag, not me.  You wrote: "Bullied into flying a flag at half-mast? If that was some huge trauma then that says it all" - either it was a big deal or it wasn't a big deal, you can't have it both ways.  And how the hell you got the idea that I was equating the non-singing of the NA with the death of Diana from that is beyond me!!  Incidentally, I am not a rah rah royalist, they bore me to tears as individuals truth be told, but just like old auntie Vera, I have a soft spot for (some of) them, and great respect for the Queen's service to her country over the years.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:19:46 PM
My town was empty the day of Diana's funeral. We walked to a local pub which was empty, just two bar staff hunched over a small radio. Everyone was watching the funeral on TV unless they went to London or Althorp. My daughter went there and there were hundreds lining the motorway. It was quite clear that day and in the preceding days where the nation's sympathy lay, and it was with Diana and her sons, no-one else.
Equally, I remember the antipathy many of my acquaintances and friends had for the funeral, and for the general public outpouring of grief, and most of them were ardent republicans.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:21:39 PM
Just read the BBC are putting on repeats of Citizen Smith to reflect JC's leadership win  8)--))
How apt, if Jezzer gets in he'll be bringing back repeats of the three day week and the Winter of Discontent too, it'll be like the 70s all over again!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:22:54 PM
Errr...no, it was you that intimated it was no big deal to fly the flag, not me.  You wrote: "Bullied into flying a flag at half-mast? If that was some huge trauma then that says it all" - either it was a big deal or it wasn't a big deal, you can't have it both ways.  And how the hell you got the idea that I was equating the non-singing of the NA with the death of Diana from that is beyond me!!  Incidentally, I am not a rah rah royalist, they bore me to tears as individuals truth be told, but just like old auntie Vera, I have a soft spot for (some of) them, and great respect for the Queen's service to her country over the years.

It wouldn't have been a big deal to fly the flag. But they didn't. Then it became a very big deal.

If you can't see the point then I still think you must indeed be a big royalist. Either that or you're one of those who sees revolution happening if Tradition isn't followed. I'm beginning to see you as a bit like Geoffrey Palmer in Fairly Secret Army.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 05:23:15 PM
@)(++(*  So, you're point is...?  The Queen is no longer popular with the people?  Really??  Because that's not the impression one gets from recent royal events.  Must be quite a large rent-a-mob they've got going on then.

I have no strong views either way?  If anything slightly pro royalty.  Watched a prog last night featuring Prince Harry and as far as I am concerned he is a good ambassador for the country as far as these things go:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/battle-of-britain/on-demand/62038-002



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:29:08 PM
It wouldn't have been a big deal to fly the flag. But they didn't. Then it became a very big deal.

If you can't see the point then I still think you must indeed be a big royalist. Either that or you're one of those who sees revolution happening if Tradition isn't followed. I'm beginning to see you as a bit like Geoffrey Palmer in Fairly Secret Army.
Obviously it was a big deal to the Monarchy, otherwise they wouldn't have held off as long as they did.  I was critical of the decision not to fly the flag at the time, but distance from the event and a bit of maturity has made me see things slightly differently now.  You can see me however you want to see me, but I can assure you as with many things your vision is somewhat askew. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:29:45 PM
My town was empty the day of Diana's funeral. We walked to a local pub which was empty, just two bar staff hunched over a small radio. Everyone was watching the funeral on TV unless they went to London or Althorp. My daughter went there and there were hundreds lining the motorway. It was quite clear that day and in the preceding days where the nation's sympathy lay, and it was with Diana and her sons, no-one else.

 8((()*/ I think so too. Maybe people weren't so involved at the beginning of the week, but by the end it was obvious something immense was going on. Who will ever forget the applause from outside the church being heard after her brother had spoken. The royals didn't like that did they &%&£(+
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Obviously it was a big deal to the Monarchy, otherwise they wouldn't have held off as long as they did.  I was critical of the decision not to fly the flag at the time, but distance from the event and a bit of maturity has made me see things slightly differently now.  You can see me however you want to see me, but I can assure you as with many things your vision is somewhat askew.

Yes, it was a big deal to the royals because they were still living in the 19th century (or earlier). Do you agree with that?

To them Tradition was more important than the death, and more important than the people.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:36:14 PM
Yes, it was a big deal to the royals because they were still living in the 19th century (or earlier). Do you agree with that?

To them Tradition was more important than the death, and more important than the people.
Sure, but then they're not like you or I - that's what makes them "the Monarchy".  You do know that underneath they're like these giant lizards don't you?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:39:11 PM
I have no strong views either way?  If anything slightly pro royalty.  Watched a prog last night featuring Prince Harry and as far as I am concerned he is a good ambassador for the country as far as these things go:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/battle-of-britain/on-demand/62038-002

I also have no strong views either way. Sometimes I seem to end up supporting a position in a debate due to the strong views of others. I was trying to work out if Harry's going bald yet.  8(>((
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:39:34 PM
Sure, but then they're not like you or I - that's what makes them "the Monarchy".  You do know that underneath they're like these giant lizards don't you?

 8)-))) So some say.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:39:47 PM
Here's the thing - I would actually prefer the Royal Family to be completely distant, unapproachable and mysterious, to wear crowns and ermine robes at all times and be able to pass laws and start wars just as in olden times, not riding about on bicycles and calling me "mate" and having Snoop Dog on speed dial.  If you've got to have royalty they should be the real deal.  Let them rule, like totally.   8((()*/





Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 05:43:05 PM
8((()*/ I think so too. Maybe people weren't so involved at the beginning of the week, but by the end it was obvious something immense was going on. Who will ever forget the applause from outside the church being heard after her brother had spoken. The royals didn't like that did they &%&£(+

And Diana's brother is such a fine example of Noblesse Oblige.  I don't think.  I would happily see him stripped of his lands and title.
Perhaps we could have a Referendum on who should go and who should stay.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:43:39 PM
Here's the thing - I would actually prefer the Royal Family to be completely distant, unapproachable and mysterious, to wear crowns and ermine robes at all times and be able to pass laws and start wars just as in olden times, not riding about on bicycles and calling me "mate" and having Snoop Dog on speed dial.  If you've got to have royalty they should be the real deal.  Let them rule, like totally.   8((()*/

They still do to some extent. We're still in 1688. The City is still a state within a state.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:44:44 PM
They still do to some extent. We're still in 1688. The City is still a state within a state.
What's the City got to do with it??
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:45:17 PM
8((()*/ I think so too. Maybe people weren't so involved at the beginning of the week, but by the end it was obvious something immense was going on. Who will ever forget the applause from outside the church being heard after her brother had spoken. The royals didn't like that did they &%&£(+

I'd forgotten about that, I got goose bumps.They were not comfortable that day at all, and no wonder. Do you think people will accept Queen Camilla if the day ever comes, or has it all been forgotten?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:47:21 PM
What's the City got to do with it??

It's actually running the country to some extent.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:49:05 PM
It's actually running the country to some extent.
I meant what has it got to do with the Monarchy?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:50:13 PM
I'd forgotten about that, I got goose bumps.They were not comfortable that day at all, and no wonder. Do you think people will accept Queen Camilla if the day ever comes, or has it all been forgotten?

You'd forgotten about it? @)(++(* That's my point destroyed then.

Queen Camilla? Doubt it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:50:48 PM
I meant what has it got to do with the Monarchy?

They're intertwined.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 05:52:37 PM
Here's the thing - I would actually prefer the Royal Family to be completely distant, unapproachable and mysterious, to wear crowns and ermine robes at all times and be able to pass laws and start wars just as in olden times, not riding about on bicycles and calling me "mate" and having Snoop Dog on speed dial.  If you've got to have royalty they should be the real deal.  Let them rule, like totally.   8((()*/

How quaint. We could let the aristocracy have free rein too - like Lord Glasgow and the waiter!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 05:55:16 PM
And Diana's brother is such a fine example of Noblesse Oblige.  I don't think.  I would happily see him stripped of his lands and title.
Perhaps we could have a Referendum on who should go and who should stay.

I'm all for guillotines. If there was a referendum I think there's one man who might top the list.

Goodbye, Tony ?>)()<
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 05:57:38 PM
They're intertwined.
tell me more.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 06:00:45 PM
I also have no strong views either way. Sometimes I seem to end up supporting a position in a debate due to the strong views of others. I was trying to work out if Harry's going bald yet.  8(>((

I didn't notice any bald patches but he is currently sporting a beard, red at that &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 06:04:08 PM
How quaint. We could let the aristocracy have free rein too - like Lord Glasgow and the waiter!
I had to google that. 

I do hope you know my previous comment was a little tongue in cheek....?  That said, I do find the idea of a progressive "down-with-the-people" monarchy less appealing than one that sits in its lofty castle, wearing a crown whilst soldiers in scarlet tunics march about "changing the guard" importantly. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
I'm all for guillotines. If there was a referendum I think there's one man who might top the list.

Goodbye, Tony ?>)()<
You should run away and join ISIS, maybe teach them a thing or two about the latest head-removing technology. 8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
tell me more.

&%+((£ I'm no constitutional expert, and there's more secrets there than in Richard Nixon's Oval office. It's a huge topic.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 16, 2015, 06:19:28 PM
I don't think anyone in the UK should be expected to work for less than an hourly rate equivalent to a 'living wage'.  Just looked it up and was surprised how low it is.  The average income is circa 26k per annum.

http://www.livingwage.org.uk/news/new-2015-living-wage-rates-announced

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-jeremy-corbynled-government-would-introduce-a-10-minimum-wage-john-mcdonnell-has-announced-10501923.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 06:53:55 PM
&%+((£ I'm no constitutional expert, and there's more secrets there than in Richard Nixon's Oval office. It's a huge topic.
hang on - you can't claim that the Monarchy rules us via the City and not at least shed some light on what you're talking about!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 07:01:25 PM
hang on - you can't claim that the Monarchy rules us via the City and not at least shed some light on what you're talking about!!

They're intertwined I said, and they are. There's a multitude of relics of absolute monarchy still around, and people say 'oh, it's just ceremonial' or 'oh, it's just a formality', but in some cases it isn't.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
I don't think anyone in the UK should be expected to work for less than an hourly rate equivalent to a 'living wage'.  Just looked it up and was surprised how low it is.  The average income is circa 26k per annum.

http://www.livingwage.org.uk/news/new-2015-living-wage-rates-announced

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-jeremy-corbynled-government-would-introduce-a-10-minimum-wage-john-mcdonnell-has-announced-10501923.html

Has Osborne promised to raise the living wage/minimum wage to £9 by 2020? (I don't know exactly what he said in the budget.) But he'll have slashed tax credits by then and some employers are going to say we can't afford to pay the new rates. Big conflicts ahead.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 07:05:07 PM
They're intertwined I said, and they are. There's a multitude of relics of absolute monarchy still around, and people say 'oh, it's just ceremonial' or 'oh, it's just a formality', but in some cases it isn't.
No idea what you're on about, sorry.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 07:15:39 PM
I had to google that. 

I do hope you know my previous comment was a little tongue in cheek....?  That said, I do find the idea of a progressive "down-with-the-people" monarchy less appealing than one that sits in its lofty castle, wearing a crown whilst soldiers in scarlet tunics march about "changing the guard" importantly.

My favourites;

https://youtu.be/fnA7XrBYpvw
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 07:27:53 PM
My favourites;

https://youtu.be/fnA7XrBYpvw

 8@??)( Completely bonkers. Poor fellas.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
&%+((£ Jezza has had to state he's not going to resign already? What have I missed? It's only been 5 days!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Ah, it was said in a different context. Phew! ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 16, 2015, 07:49:23 PM
The 'Royal' families of Europe do seem to resemble one another.

It does result in a rather limited gene pool. 8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 16, 2015, 09:01:32 PM
Ah, it was said in a different context. Phew! ?{)(**

He can't go yet we're having too much fun.  8**8:/:

Here's some even better changing of the guard for you;

https://youtu.be/NC9NeJh1NhI
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 16, 2015, 09:37:58 PM
He can't go yet we're having too much fun.  8**8:/:

Here's some even better changing of the guard for you;

https://youtu.be/NC9NeJh1NhI

Oh My God.  That video is amazing.  I think I'll watch it again.

Meanwhile, our Parliament is apparently now having phone ins for PMQs.  Too right we are having too much fun.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 16, 2015, 09:47:10 PM
8@??)( You won the prize with that one, G. Brilliant ceremony. Some prize-winning moustaches there too.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 16, 2015, 09:49:55 PM
He can't go yet we're having too much fun.  8**8:/:

Here's some even better changing of the guard for you;

https://youtu.be/NC9NeJh1NhI

 @)(++(* 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 16, 2015, 10:26:25 PM
He can't go yet we're having too much fun.  8**8:/:

Here's some even better changing of the guard for you;

https://youtu.be/NC9NeJh1NhI
were they influenced by Monty Python or vice versa?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2015, 07:11:30 AM
8@??)( You won the prize with that one, G. Brilliant ceremony. Some prize-winning moustaches there too.

The audiences gather every day, and no wonder. That's real body language.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 09:49:28 AM
On the republic thread Puglove mentioned that Corbyn "scares the crap out of me" and G-Unit replied "good".

What actually is good about a politician who scares people?  Is a scary leader one likely to win votes at the election?

Who here can honestly believe that if there was an election tomorrow and Corbyn's Labour Party won that Britain would be a safer, better place in 5 years time?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 17, 2015, 10:24:45 AM
On the republic thread Puglove mentioned that Corbyn "scares the crap out of me" and G-Unit replied "good".

What actually is good about a politician who scares people?  Is a scary leader one likely to win votes at the election?

Who here can honestly believe that if there was an election tomorrow and Corbyn's Labour Party won that Britain would be a safer, better place in 5 years time?

Safer? You think our 'defence' strategies now have made us safer? We've been bombing Iraq for almost 25 years, and Cameron's one and only idea is: Ok, we know that strategy didn't work, but, hey, let's bomb it some more. And Syria. And Libya.

Do you really think we're safer now than we were 25 years ago?

If you don't feel safe now it's because of the policies of the Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron governments. 25 years of punishing the civilian population with sanctions, bombing, invasion and more bombing. Watch Pilger's films Alfred and educate yourself.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 17, 2015, 10:29:03 AM
On the republic thread Puglove mentioned that Corbyn "scares the crap out of me" and G-Unit replied "good".

What actually is good about a politician who scares people?  Is a scary leader one likely to win votes at the election?

Who here can honestly believe that if there was an election tomorrow and Corbyn's Labour Party won that Britain would be a safer, better place in 5 years time?

I'm 99.9% certain he wouldn't win right now.  Generally people do not like the unknown and change unless they are in despair and I don't believe there are sufficient numbers in despair right now.  If he is still leader in 2020 his chances of winning will depend on how the shadow cabinet have performed and whether they have credible policy alternatives to the Tories that appeal to the masses.

Over recent times those with jobs, mortgages, properties and other asset backed investments have done very nicely thank you.  This has been largely down to low interest rates and QE on the back of the global financial crisis which were needed to keep the global financial system afloat ie the can has been kicked down the road.  What's next?  Plus Little Britain is just a small cog.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2015, 10:40:54 AM
On the republic thread Puglove mentioned that Corbyn "scares the crap out of me" and G-Unit replied "good".

What actually is good about a politician who scares people?  Is a scary leader one likely to win votes at the election?

Who here can honestly believe that if there was an election tomorrow and Corbyn's Labour Party won that Britain would be a safer, better place in 5 years time?

Taking my quote out of context Alfred? Puglove didn't say why Corbyn was scary, unless it was his 'scruffiness and sulkiness' that was scary. It's good because people are taking notice and debating the issues. He's chased the apathy away.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2015, 02:13:53 PM
A fairly reasoned report about today's shock horror story about Privy council membership. Interesting comments also;

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/the-suns-front-page-about-jeremy-corbyn-is-wrong-says-its-ow
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 04:14:25 PM
Safer? You think our 'defence' strategies now have made us safer? We've been bombing Iraq for almost 25 years, and Cameron's one and only idea is: Ok, we know that strategy didn't work, but, hey, let's bomb it some more. And Syria. And Libya.

Do you really think we're safer now than we were 25 years ago?

If you don't feel safe now it's because of the policies of the Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron governments. 25 years of punishing the civilian population with sanctions, bombing, invasion and more bombing. Watch Pilger's films Alfred and educate yourself.
Could you please answer my question and stop being so damned patronizing.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 05:18:48 PM
Taking my quote out of context Alfred? Puglove didn't say why Corbyn was scary, unless it was his 'scruffiness and sulkiness' that was scary. It's good because people are taking notice and debating the issues. He's chased the apathy away.
Funnily enough is seems you have chosen to ignore the key reason for Puglove's fear of Corbyn - here is their post again:

Quote
Well, you can certainly rely on the scruffy, sulky Corbyn to send us spiralling into the past.

He scares the crap out of me.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 05:21:22 PM
A fairly reasoned report about today's shock horror story about Privy council membership. Interesting comments also;

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/the-suns-front-page-about-jeremy-corbyn-is-wrong-says-its-ow
Did you see Corbyn on Newsnight being asked if he would kneel before the Queen?  Claimed he didn't know that this was a requirement of the leader of the opposition (how disingenuous, even I knew about this) and looked extremely shifty and un-forthright.  A bit like a politician in fact!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Admin on September 17, 2015, 05:40:53 PM
Jeremy is 66 at the moment and by the time of the next scheduled election in May 2020 he will be almost 71.  I don't know about you but a pensioner running the country is a bit of a long shot.  He should make for an interesting interim leader of the opposition though.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2015, 05:41:26 PM
Did you see Corbyn on Newsnight being asked if he would kneel before the Queen?  Claimed he didn't know that this was a requirement of the leader of the opposition (how disingenuous, even I knew about this) and looked extremely shifty and un-forthright.  A bit like a politician in fact!

I thought he claimed he didn't know it was a requirement for a Privy Council member?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 06:04:38 PM
I thought he claimed he didn't know it was a requirement for a Privy Council member?
Whatever.  You think an MP of 30+ years standing doesn't know about this stuff?  I suppose Jeremy's always had his mind on far more serious matters and that's his excuse and he's sticking by it.  Shame he couldn't give a straight answer when challenged though - I thought that straight talking was his USP??
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 17, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
Interesting interview with JC:

http://www.thirdwaymagazine.co.uk/editions/july-2015/high-profile/far-sighted.aspx

Interviewer: "You advocated talking to Sinn Féin long before it emerged that the Government was actually doing so. You admired Nelson Mandela when much of the media was still saying he should have been hanged. You campaigned for justice for the Palestinians long before that became respectable. You opposed the 'war on terror' long before many other MPs saw the dangers. Do you ever get credit for being ahead of the political curve"?

JC: "No - but I don't mind. It's not im­portant. The cause is what's important".

Maybe JC will dumfound his critics and show how ahead of the political curve he is?   &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 06:10:43 PM
Interesting interview with JC:

http://www.thirdwaymagazine.co.uk/editions/july-2015/high-profile/far-sighted.aspx

Interviewer: "You advocated talking to Sinn Féin long before it emerged that the Government was actually doing so. You admired Nelson Mandela when much of the media was still saying he should have been hanged. You campaigned for justice for the Palestinians long before that became respectable. You opposed the 'war on terror' long before many other MPs saw the dangers. Do you ever get credit for being ahead of the political curve"?

JC: "No - but I don't mind. It's not im­portant. The cause is what's important".

Maybe JC will dumfound his critics and show how ahead of the political curve he is?   &%+((£
Hmmm, maybe.  I don't remember much of the media saying that Nelson Mandela should be hanged though.  Maybe that was before my time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2015, 08:28:35 PM
Jeremy is 66 at the moment and by the time of the next scheduled election in May 2020 he will be almost 71.  I don't know about you but a pensioner running the country is a bit of a long shot.  He should make for an interesting interim leader of the opposition though.

I'm not making comparisons, but Churchill was PM from 1951=1955 and his age in 1951 was 77.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 09:28:27 PM
I'm not making comparisons, but Churchill was PM from 1951=1955 and his age in 1951 was 77.
Different times, different demands.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 17, 2015, 10:35:52 PM
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Jeremy Corbyn’s petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paul’s cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmaster’s orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. I’m going to have to be careful about this — before long I’ll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbyn’s liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbyn’s supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didn’t have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbyn’s silence.
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Anderson’s 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britain’s “ferruginous philistinism and parochialism”. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hill’s biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnell’s remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnell’s belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labour’s weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwell’s challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 11:03:55 AM
Different times, different demands.

Corbyn's age isn't relevant. In the US Hilary Clinton (67) and Donald Trump (69) aren't letting their ages stop them.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 11:13:28 AM
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Published 1 minute ago
Jeremy Corbyn’s petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paul’s cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmaster’s orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. I’m going to have to be careful about this — before long I’ll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbyn’s liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbyn’s supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didn’t have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbyn’s silence.
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Anderson’s 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britain’s “ferruginous philistinism and parochialism”. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hill’s biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnell’s remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnell’s belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labour’s weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwell’s challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.

As written by Blair's chief speechwriter.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 18, 2015, 12:34:13 PM
"It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation."

He's only been in the job for six days!

Anyone who joins in with the media's assault on a new leader should be ashamed. Collins won't be because he knows perfectly well what he's doing - he enjoys joining the attack. By "realm of politics" he means the media that controls public discussion in a so-called democracy. Collins is happy about that. Corbyn isn't, and neither are those who voted for him. As ever that's where the struggle lies, and if Orwell were alive today he'd be on Corbyn's side (in that debate at least). Shame on Collins for suggesting otherwise.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 02:15:22 PM
Corbyn's age isn't relevant. In the US Hilary Clinton (67) and Donald Trump (69) aren't letting their ages stop them.
God, but I wish it would!!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 02:16:22 PM
As written by Blair's chief speechwriter.
And how does that fact invalidate what he has written?  Criticise the article, not the man.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 02:20:07 PM
"It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation."

He's only been in the job for six days!

Anyone who joins in with the media's assault on a new leader should be ashamed. Collins won't be because he knows perfectly well what he's doing - he enjoys joining the attack. By "realm of politics" he means the media that controls public discussion in a so-called democracy. Collins is happy about that. Corbyn isn't, and neither are those who voted for him. As ever that's where the struggle lies, and if Orwell were alive today he'd be on Corbyn's side (in that debate at least). Shame on Collins for suggesting otherwise.
Aww, bless.  Whatever happened to "Freedom of Speech"?  If you run for and win the position of Leader of the Opposition it's a dead cert you will be "attacked" by the media, particularly if you decide to antagonise them from the off in your acceptance speech (if not before). 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 03:19:48 PM
Well worth a read, many points I agree with from the Times)


The left will never really love this country
Philip Collins

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Published 1 minute ago
Jeremy Corbyn’s petulant refusal to sing the national anthem tells you all you need to know about his true sympathies
Why petulant?
How strange that silence should reveal so much more about a man than anything he says. At the Battle of Britain commemoration in St Paul’s cathedral, Jeremy Corbyn stood in silence as the national anthem played. Without uttering a word, he showed that the left has a fond idea of authenticity but is not fond of Britain. Which is something of a problem for a man auditioning to be prime minister.
Or not in favour of the monarchy?
To observe Mr Corbyn is an encounter with my adolescent self. I remember bucking the system by ignoring the headmaster’s orders to do up the top button of my shirt. I once stood in silence while all the losers sang lustily a song that celebrates monarchy rather than the nation. When I was ignorant of all history, I snottily declared that poppies simply celebrated war rather than peace. As a fledgeling radical, I declared loftily that, when the Queen inducted me into the privy council, I would not bend my knee.
A small part of me that is for ever radical still believes some of this. I am much closer to Mr Corbyn on these issues than most people. But since I first had these thoughts I have gone through a process I recommend. It is called growing up. It involves understanding that the etiquette of a public occasion demands respect and good manners. Mr Corbyn is absolutely at liberty, of course, not to sing the national anthem. Everyone else is at an equal liberty to draw their own conclusions.
All in order to suggest Corbyn is childish
It was a moment that spoke to the nation. It was, first, a reminder of a brutal political lesson that the Corbyn supporters are learning in public, at the expense of the Labour party. If you have spent your political life moving from a rally of the persuaded to a march of the already aggrieved, there is no need to persuade. An act of assertion, even if it is conducted in silence, is all that is ever required. However, as soon as you enter democratic politics you suddenly find that authenticity comes at a price.
Corbyn may still have some persuading to do, but he has already persuaded the Labour Party, it seems.
The best illustration is another one of the surprising number of questions on which I agree with Mr Corbyn. I’m going to have to be careful about this — before long I’ll be wearing my fountain pen in my top pocket. I do, however, broadly approve of Mr Corbyn’s liberal position on immigration. However I weigh that authentic liberalism against the clear view of the people, especially the English, that immigration is imperilling a sense of nationhood. My authenticity and granite integrity might land me in trouble with people attracted to Ukip in the north of England. There are consequences I will not like. There is a choice here, which takes you into the realm of politics, a land Mr Corbyn has never before visited.
As a long-standing MP I expect Mr Corbyn is not completely ignorant about politics. How patronising.
The country he lives in is not the same as the rest of us. These gestures, or absence of gestures, are not as trivial as Mr Corbyn’s supporters suggest. On the contrary, they are an eloquent reminder of an intellectual tradition on the left that disdains Britain. It is a literature I once found intriguing. Martin Amis once said of Philip Larkin that he lived a miserable life so that you didn’t have to. I offer the same service with respect to Marxist histories of the nation because they provide the script for Mr Corbyn’s silence.
If he knows as much about Marxism as most it won't be a lot
The far-left account of the nation comes from the theorist Perry Anderson’s 1964 essay Origins of the Present Crisis. With apologies for the language, Anderson denounces Britain’s “ferruginous philistinism and parochialism”. By missing out on a bourgeois revolution like Russia, we failed to properly evolve. This failure allowed the aristocratic establishment to reinvent itself and, to this day, the British state retains its feudal aspect. At its head, the monarchy personifies the exclusion of the people from real power. You find the same assumptions in Christopher Hill’s biography of Bunyan. I used to love that book. These days I think a history of bunions would contain more political wisdom.
There are many opinions on Marxism. I would like to know why he thinks Anderson's is the definitive one for the far left
The belief that Britain is the site of a class war that the workers have lost can lead a man astray. I am ashamed to be a member of a party that has room for such as John McDonnell near its summit. There has always been a choice on the left, to support Sinn Fein or the SDLP. Mr McDonnell’s remarks about the IRA derive from his belief that Britain has never cast off its imperial ambitions which, as the empire shrank, it visited upon Ireland. Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell, if pressed, do not regard the institutions of the British state as entirely legitimate. The whole panoply is part of a conspiracy, with the media as its mouthpiece. Hence Mr McDonnell’s belief that the road to socialism does not need to pass through parliament. Ed Miliband has been replaced by Ralph Miliband.
Perhaps he should resign his membership if he feels so strongly?
Even when confronted by nationalism, as it is in Scotland, the Labour party has tended to believe it can be bought off with more socialism. Failing to grasp the nature of the nationalist assault, Labour will shift to the left in Scotland and make its predicament worse. At the same time, failing to respond to what EP Thompson called the peculiarities of the English creates an opening for Ukip. Labour has usually struggled in England. Wilson and Blair won majorities there but, for most of its history, Labour has relied on votes from Scotland and Wales, from whence its greatest heroes, Hardie and Bevan, have come. Labour’s weakness in England explains why it is so suspicious of an English settlement in parliament.
Despite the recent efforts of John Denham and Jon Cruddas, Labour has rarely picked up Orwell’s challenge to marry socialism with national identity. When Peter Mandelson devised a television advert that contained a British bulldog it felt like the last refuge for the Labour party. It would have seemed a bit crass but entirely commonplace on the right.
On all this, Mr Corbyn will maintain his silence. He has already, under duress, proclaimed his love of the those parts of the country he regards as just. He is happier, though, lamenting that it is too class-bound, not far enough along the Marxist historical trajectory for his liking. It must be hard for him to be confronted with choices after so long in the comfort zone. Can you really govern a nation whose anthem you would rather not sing? It is a disconcerting sight to watch a man uncomfortably saying nothing but who claims he wants to speak for the nation.

All in all, spin and half-truths.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 06:14:25 PM
All in all, spin and half-truths.
If genuinely held opinion can be called spin then spin it is.  Much of what he wrote chimes exactly with my opinion of JC, and (it seems) with many of those that left comments on the piece.

As for the half-truths, which points were they?

In the meantime, here's another article well worth reading on the subject by Nick Cohen in the Spectator. 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9637452/why-ive-finally-given-up-on-the-left/

Tory, Tory, Tory. You’re a Tory.’ The level of hatred directed by the Corbyn left at Labour people who have fought Tories all their lives is as menacing as it is ridiculous. If you are a woman, you face misogyny. Kate Godfrey, the centrist Labour candidate in Stafford, told the Times she had received death threats and pornographic hate mail after challenging her local left. If you are a man, you are condemned in language not heard since the fall of Marxist Leninism. ‘This pathetic small-minded jealousy of the anti-democratic bourgeois shows them up for the reactionary neocons they really are,’ a Guardian commenter told its columnist Rafael Behr after he had criticised Corbyn.

Not that they are careful about anything, or that they will take advice from me, but the left should be careful of what it wishes for. Its accusations won’t seem ridiculous soon. The one prophesy I can make with certainty amid today’s chaos is that many on the left will head for the right. When they arrive, they will be greeted with bogus explanations for their ‘betrayal’.

Conservatives will talk as if there is a right-wing gene which, like male-pattern baldness, manifests itself with age. The US leftist-turned-neocon Irving Kristol set the pattern for the pattern-baldness theory of politics when he opined that a conservative is a liberal who has been ‘mugged by reality’. He did not understand that the effects of reality’s many muggings are never predictable, or that facts of life are not always, as Margaret Thatcher claimed, conservative. If they were, we would still have feudalism.

The standard explanation from left-wingers is equally self-serving. Turncoats are like prostitutes, they say, who sell their virtue for money. They are pure; those who disagree with them are corrupt; and that is all there is to it.

Owen Jones, who seems to have abandoned journalism to become Jeremy Corbyn’s PR man, offers an equally thoughtless argument. ‘Swimming against a strong tide is exhausting,’ he sighed recently. Leftists who stray from virtue are defeated dissidents, who bend under the pressure to conform.

It won’t wash, particularly as Jones cannot break with the pressures that enforce conformity in his left-wing world and accept the real reason why many leave the left. It ought to be obvious. The left is why they leave the left. Never more so than today.

In the past, people would head to the exits saying, ‘Better the centre right than the far left.’ Now they can say ‘better the centre right than the far right’. The shift of left-wing thought towards movements it would once have denounced as racist, imperialist and fascistic has been building for years. I come from a left-wing family, marched against Margaret Thatcher and was one of the first journalists to denounce New Labour’s embrace of corporate capitalism — and I don’t regret any of it. But slowly, too slowly I am ashamed to say, I began to notice that left-wing politics had turned rancid.

In 2007 I tried to make amends, and published What’s Left. If they were true to their professed principles, my book argued, modern leftists would search out secular forces in the Muslim world — Iranian and Arab feminists, say, Kurdish socialists or Muslim liberals struggling against reactionary clerics here in Britain — and embrace them as comrades. Instead, they preferred to excuse half the anti-western theocrats and dictators on the planet. As, in their quiet way, did many in the liberal mainstream. Throughout that period, I never heard the BBC demanding of ‘progressives’ how they could call themselves left-wing when they had not a word of comfort for the Iraqi and Afghan liberals al-Qaeda was slaughtering.


The triumph of Jeremy Corbyn has led to What’s Left sales picking up, and readers acclaiming my alleged prescience. Grateful though I am, I cannot accept the compliment. I never imagined that left-wing politics would get as bad as they have become. I assumed that when the criminally irresponsible Blair flew off in his Learjet, the better angels of the left’s nature would re-assert themselves.

What a fool I was.

Jeremy Corbyn did not become Labour leader because his friends in the Socialist Workers party organised a Leninist coup. Nor did the £3 click-activist day-trippers hand him victory. He won with the hearty and freely given support of ‘decent’ Labour members.

And yes, thank you, I know all about the feebleness of Corbyn’s opponents. But the fact remains that the Labour party has just endorsed an apologist for Putin’s imperial aggression; a man who did not just appear on the propaganda channel of Russia, which invades its neighbours and persecutes gays, but also of Iran, whose hangmen actually execute gays. Labour’s new leader sees a moral equivalence between 9/11 and the assassination of bin Laden, and associates with every variety of women-hating, queer-bashing, Jew-baiting jihadi, holocaust denier and 9/11 truther. His supporters know it, but they don’t care.

They don’t put it like that, naturally. Their first response is to cry ‘smear’. When I show that it is nothing of the sort, they say that he was ‘engaging in dialogue’, even though Corbyn only ever has a ‘dialogue’ with one side and his ‘engagement’ never involves anything so principled as robust criticism.




A few on the British left are beginning to realise what they have done. Feminists were the first to stir from their slumber. They were outraged this week when Corbyn gave all his top jobs to men. I have every sympathy. But really, what did they expect from a man who never challenged the oppression of women in Iran when he was a guest on the state propaganda channel? You cannot promote equality at home while defending subjugation abroad and it was naive to imagine that Corbyn would try.

The women’s issue nicely illustrates the damage he can do, even if he never becomes prime minister. When Labour shows by its actions that it doesn’t believe in women’s equality, the pressure on other institutions diminishes. Secularists and liberal Muslims will feel a different kind of prejudice. They will no longer get a hearing for their campaigns against forced marriage and sharia law from a Labour party that counts the Muslim Brotherhood among his allies.

The position of the Jews is grimmer still. To be blunt, the new leader of the opposition is ‘friends’ with men who want them dead. One Jewish Labour supporter told me, ‘I feel like a gay man in the Tory party just after they’ve passed Section 28.’ Another described his position as ‘incredibly exposed’. He had ‘come to understand in the last few weeks, quite how shallow the attachment of the left is to principles which I thought defined it.’

And yes, thank you again, I know at this point I am meant to say that Corbyn isn’t an anti-Semite. Maybe he isn’t, but some of his best friends are, and the record shows that out of cynicism or conviction he will engage in the left’s version of ‘dog-whistle’ race politics.

I am middle-class and won’t suffer under the coming decade of majority Tory rule. Millions need a centre-left alternative, but I cannot see them being attracted by the revival of lumpen leftism either. Unlike their Scottish and French counterparts, the English intelligentsia has always had a problem with patriotism. Whenever this trend has manifested itself, voters have turned away, reasoning that politicians who appear to hate England are likely to have little time for the English.

By electing Corbyn, Labour has chosen a man who fits every cliché the right has used to mobilise working-class conservatism. In the 1790s, George Canning described the typical English supporter of the French Revolution ‘as a friend of every country but his own’. Today’s Tories can, with justice, say the same about Corbyn. George Orwell wrote of the ‘English intellectual [who] would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God Save the King” than of stealing from a poor box’. That came to mind on Tuesday when Corbyn declined to sing ‘God Save the Queen’ at the Battle of Britain remembrance service.

I opened What’s Left with a quote by Norman Cohn, from Warrant for Genocide, his history of how the conspiracy theories that ended in fascism began in the dark, neglected corners of 19th-century Europe:


It is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, captures and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people.

In the years since What’s Left was published, I have argued that the likes of Corbyn do not represent the true left; that there are other worthier traditions opposed to oppression whether the oppressors are pro-western or anti-western. I can’t be bothered any more. Cries of ‘I’m the real left!’, ‘No I’m the real left!’ are always silly. And in any case, there is no doubt which ‘real left’ has won.

The half-educated fanatics are in control now. I do not see how in conscience I can stay with their movement or vote for their party. I am not going to pretend the next time I meet Owen Jones or those Labour politicians who serve in Corbyn’s shadow cabinet that we are still members of the same happy family. There are differences that cannot and should not be smoothed over.

I realise now what I should have known years ago. The causes I most care about — secularism, freedom of speech, universal human rights — are not their causes. Whatever they pretend, when the crunch comes, they will always put sectarian unity first, and find reasons to be elsewhere.

So, for what it is worth, this is my resignation letter from the left. I have no idea who I should send it to or if there are forms to fill in. But I do know this: like so many before me, I can claim constructive dismissal.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 06:53:15 PM
These pieces being cut and pasted are simply opinions dressed up as deeply thought out balanced evaluations of left-wing political thought. The writer's dislike of the left is evident in every line. So unbalanced and confused I don't think they're worth reading myself.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 07:23:11 PM
These pieces being cut and pasted are simply opinions dressed up as deeply thought out balanced evaluations of left-wing political thought. The writer's dislike of the left is evident in every line. So unbalanced and confused I don't think they're worth reading myself.
Both these pieces were written by long-term Labour supporters, nothing confused about either article, and of course they are "unbalanced" - they are opinion pieces fgs.  It is permissible to have a negative opinion of Corbyn and his politics and to voice it - for now!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 07:42:25 PM
Both these pieces were written by long-term Labour supporters, nothing confused about either article, and of course they are "unbalanced" - they are opinion pieces fgs.  It is permissible to have a negative opinion of Corbyn and his politics and to voice it - for now!

Labour, as they say, is a broad church. Some Labour policians and supporters are difficult to separate from Tory politicians and supporters and that became a problem for the electorate. The clear difference between Corbyn and the Tories is a breath of fresh air.

The right of the Labour Party may be better employed demonstrating their differences from the Tories rather than their differences from Corbyn.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 08:51:48 PM
Labour, as they say, is a broad church. Some Labour policians and supporters are difficult to separate from Tory politicians and supporters and that became a problem for the electorate. The clear difference between Corbyn and the Tories is a breath of fresh air.

The right of the Labour Party may be better employed demonstrating their differences from the Tories rather than their differences from Corbyn.
why is the moderate, centrist position such a bad place to be?  over the last 25 years the electorate has made it clear that extremism is not for them.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2015, 09:26:10 PM
why is the moderate, centrist position such a bad place to be?  over the last 25 years the electorate has made it clear that extremism is not for them.

There's nothing wrong with a centrist position. There's not much point in having more than one party if you have trouble telling the difference though. The electorate has voted (or not) for what was available. When something different (like UKIP) was offered they showed interest in that. We don't know if they would vote for a left wing Labour government as that has never been on offer.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 18, 2015, 09:34:48 PM
There's nothing wrong with a centrist position. There's not much point in having more than one party if you have trouble telling the difference though. The electorate has voted (or not) for what was available. When something different (like UKIP) was offered they showed interest in that. We don't know if they would vote for a left wing Labour government as that has never been on offer.

 @)(++(*
Predisely. It makes  a mockery of politics and democracy at best.
And the fact that Corbyn did present a credible opposition is what got him elected and with a landslide. Milliband never ever got it poor soul.
And so boringly and predictably we had the vultures trying to eat his carcass before hes even started.
But, all kudos to him, has put most of them if not all in their place...he is not yet an orange faced wimp who has done nothng for the UK that is memorable or signed off the screwing over of so many in the name of austerity and saving a few billion while their other hand wasted five times that amount elsewhere and laughably in the same breath say we are the working man's party oh hahahaha.....thank god we don't have to be shackled to the likes of this Tory so called government forever

 8)--))


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 18, 2015, 10:02:07 PM
There's nothing wrong with a centrist position. There's not much point in having more than one party if you have trouble telling the difference though. The electorate has voted (or not) for what was available. When something different (like UKIP) was offered they showed interest in that. We don't know if they would vote for a left wing Labour government as that has never been on offer.
Oh well only 5 years to wait to find out, if indeed Corbyn and the far left are still in charge by then.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 18, 2015, 11:25:02 PM
Oh well only 5 years to wait to find out, if indeed Corbyn and the far left are still in charge by then.

At least they will fight against injustices...what do your Tory mates do day in day out? The riff raff end of them at least who seem to be in power,b....r all, most of them are incompetent to run a brewery let alone a country, granted they can make millions for a few though
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 19, 2015, 12:06:31 AM
At least they will fight against injustices...what do your Tory mates do day in day out? The riff raff end of them at least who seem to be in power,b....r all, most of them are incompetent to run a brewery let alone a country, granted they can make millions for a few though
"my Tory mates?"  You see, this is an example of what Nick Cohen was referencing above.  If you don't support Corbyn then you must be a Tory.  FYI I have never voted Conservative in my life. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 19, 2015, 01:47:03 AM
Aww, bless.  Whatever happened to "Freedom of Speech"?  If you run for and win the position of Leader of the Opposition it's a dead cert you will be "attacked" by the media, particularly if you decide to antagonise them from the off in your acceptance speech (if not before).

If he made friends with that lot he'd lose his supporters overnight. But you're right, he detests them and what they've done to this country almost as much as I do.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 19, 2015, 01:52:55 AM
Oh well only 5 years to wait to find out, if indeed Corbyn and the far left are still in charge by then.

The "far left" aren't in charge. If only. Everyone knows he has little support from the MPs, and not even much in his shadow cabinet.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 19, 2015, 08:34:47 AM
The "far left" aren't in charge. If only. Everyone knows he has little support from the MPs, and not even much in his shadow cabinet.
Did I mis-hear Jeremy on Newsnight when he said ultimately it was up to him to decide on policy?  If the Far Left does not now contol Labour who the hell does?  The moderates??!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 01:57:55 AM
...and yes, as leader of the party Corbyn will be the decision maker, another simple fact...

You don't like Corbyn, big deal, and tough, it doesn't really matter, if you prefer a fascist one party dictatorship state, that's your prerogative but last time I looked, the UK was ruled under a democratic system so ...that's all basically

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on September 20, 2015, 02:16:37 AM
...and yes, as leader of the party Corbyn will be the decision maker, another simple fact...

You don't like Corbyn, big deal, and tough, it doesn't really matter, if you prefer a fascist one party dictatorship state, that's your prerogative but last time I looked, the UK was ruled under a democratic system so ...that's all basically

By electing Corbyn, party members have ensured Labour is unelectable as heading any Government for the foreseeable future.  As in Scotland, the Labour Party is now a non entity in England too and for some that is much to cheer about.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on September 20, 2015, 02:20:25 AM
Did I mis-hear Jeremy on Newsnight when he said ultimately it was up to him to decide on policy?  If the Far Left does not now contol Labour who the hell does?  The moderates??!

Labour has effectively found itself in a political wilderness with few friends.  The Party is already in turmoil over bombing Syria with half ts MP's about to rebel.  If Labour is to survive as a Party I don't believe Corbyn's has a hope in hell of surviving a year as leader.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 20, 2015, 03:34:55 AM
Labour has effectively found itself in a political wilderness with few friends.  The Party is already in turmoil over bombing Syria with half ts MP's about to rebel.  If Labour is to survive as a Party I don't believe Corbyn's has a hope in hell of surviving a year as leader.

The party has always had few friends... except when it's being led by a Tory.

Yet it always survives the attempts to destroy it ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 10:39:39 AM
The party has always had few friends... except when it's being led by a Tory.

Yet it always survives the attempts to destroy it ?{)(**
Aww, come on - the party has some new friends now though doesn't it?  Hezbollah and Hamas, to name but two.  I expect ISIS were quite pleased with the result too...  8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 10:43:28 AM
...and yes, as leader of the party Corbyn will be the decision maker, another simple fact...

You don't like Corbyn, big deal, and tough, it doesn't really matter, if you prefer a fascist one party dictatorship state, that's your prerogative but last time I looked, the UK was ruled under a democratic system so ...that's all basically
You do write the most absurd and offensive statements.  If anyone supports one party dictatorship states you need look no further than your hero Corbyn and the list of leaders he admires.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2015, 11:05:40 AM
The party has always had few friends... except when it's being led by a Tory.

Yet it always survives the attempts to destroy it ?{)(**

If you read the newspapers Labour has committed electoral suicide. However, people voted for Corbyn and new members have joined since he won. This tells us that many people don't want the Labour Party to continue in the direction it has gone in recent years. 'Blairism' won votes but was it Labour? No. it was 'New Labour', which has now been resoundingly rejected by the majority.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 20, 2015, 11:05:48 AM
Well now, I am getting really worried.  For God's sake, even I am beginning to feel sorry for him.  And you all know what your average Brit is like when it comes to defending the under dog.

I think we should all be saying, "Gung Ho, Feller, well met.  Let's have a One Party Communist State."  That should scare the shit out of anyone.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2015, 11:46:47 AM
Well now, I am getting really worried.  For God's sake, even I am beginning to feel sorry for him.  And you all know what your average Brit is like when it comes to defending the under dog.

I think we should all be saying, "Gung Ho, Feller, well met.  Let's have a One Party Communist State."  That should scare the shit out of anyone.

Exactly. The attacks are out of proportion to the perceived dangers and Brits love an underdog. Younger Brits don't like bullying either.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 12:42:36 PM
Exactly. The attacks are out of proportion to the perceived dangers and Brits love an underdog. Younger Brits don't like bullying either.
Of course, that's why younger Brits embraced Ed Miliband, Nigel Farage, Nick Clegg and Nick Griffin, all "victims" of press "bullying" too and why each was such a resounding success at the ballot box.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 12:44:46 PM
If you read the newspapers Labour has committed electoral suicide. However, people voted for Corbyn and new members have joined since he won. This tells us that many people don't want the Labour Party to continue in the direction it has gone in recent years. 'Blairism' won votes but was it Labour? No. it was 'New Labour', which has now been resoundingly rejected by the majority.
How many members of the Labour party have recently left though?  I personally know at least half a dozen.

ETA: from the latest ORB research:

A survey of 2,000 people found that Mr Corbyn’s election as Labour leader has made one in five people who voted for his party at the May general election more likely to vote Conservative next time. Some 37 per cent of Labour voters say they are less likely to back the party at the next election
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 20, 2015, 12:48:34 PM
Exactly. The attacks are out of proportion to the perceived dangers and Brits love an underdog. Younger Brits don't like bullying either.

So glad that we agree for once.

Personally, I don't know.  I am a Socialist at heart and I truly want everyone to have a fair crack of the whip.
Except for me.  I make my own good fortune, and I rely on no one but me.  I deny no one the right to do better than I have done, and do not begrudge anyone who has done better than I have done.  And nor do I personally expect to be entitled to anything that they have.

But I'll tell you what.  I have never worked my socks off for those who often do not even get out of bed before I have done a day's boring hard graft.
So perhaps I am a Capitalist after all.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 06:03:12 PM
By electing Corbyn, party members have ensured Labour is unelectable as heading any Government for the foreseeable future.  As in Scotland, the Labour Party is now a non entity in England too and for some that is much to cheer about.

A strong opposition to keep the ruling party in check is quite enough for now..I doubt Corbyn can be compared to Cameron in that he dreams of being PM and not much else

Do you really thnk Cooper, Kendall or Burnham winning would have been better? It was called the Labour Party and not Tory  for a reason but the guy is getting castigated for standing up to principles (and more)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 06:08:45 PM
You do write the most absurd and offensive statements.  If anyone supports one party dictatorship states you need look no further than your hero Corbyn and the list of leaders he admires.

Do you have a cite showing the list of dictatorships that Jeremy Corbyn supports?

Including the rationale behind that "absurd" statement

As for offensive, well, what I find offensive is fabrication, spin, sensationalism and lies....
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 08:40:24 PM
Do you have a cite showing the list of dictatorships that Jeremy Corbyn supports?

Including the rationale behind that "absurd" statement

As for offensive, well, what I find offensive is fabrication, spin, sensationalism and lies....
Don't take my word for it, read what one of his supporters has to say on the subject. https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-tatchell/im-backing-jeremy-corbyn-for-labour-leadership-despite-his-unsavoury-frien
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 08:46:19 PM
Don't take my word for it, read what one of his supporters has to say on the subject. https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-tatchell/im-backing-jeremy-corbyn-for-labour-leadership-despite-his-unsavoury-frien

great article supporting Corbyn but no list of dictatorships he supports....if not wanting to add fuel to fire but wanting negotiation is not your cup of tea, well that's ok, but check where it's lead in the past ...anythng which mnmises civilian deaths is always good In my books.

Cameron supports Saudi Arabia, what dyou think about that then...bit hypocritical? Perchance?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 09:01:03 PM
great article supporting Corbyn but no list of dictatorships he supports....if not wanting to add fuel to fire but wanting negotiation is not your cup of tea, well that's ok, but check where it's lead in the past ...anythng which mnmises civilian deaths is always good In my books.

Cameron supports Saudi Arabia, what dyou think about that then...bit hypocritical? Perchance?
does Corbyn support Castro for one?  A simple yes / no will suffice.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 09:02:32 PM
does Corbyn support Castro for one?  A simple yes / no will suffice.

i have no idea, you were the one who stated he supports dictators, your onus to supply the links

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 09:24:21 PM
i have no idea, you were the one who stated he supports dictators, your onus to supply the links
Fidel Castro is a dictator, agreed?  Here is proof of Jeremy's support for a communist dictator.

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2007-08/982
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 09:57:19 PM
Fidel Castro is a dictator, agreed?  Here is proof of Jeremy's support for a communist dictator.

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2007-08/982

That this House commends the achievements of Fidel Castro in securing first-class free healthcare and education provision for the people of Cuba despite the 44 year illegal US embargo of the Cuban economy; notes the great strides Cuba has taken during this period in many fields such as biotechnology and sport in both of which Cuba is a world leader; acknowledges the esteem in which Castro is held by the people and leaders of Africa, Asia and Latin America for leading the calls for emancipation of the world's poorest people from slavery, hunger and the denial of human rights such as the right to life, the right to shelter, the right to healthcare and basic medicines and the right to education; welcomes the EU statement that constructive engagement with Cuba at this time is the most responsible course of action; and calls upon the Government to respect Cuba's right to self-determination and resist the aggressive forces within the US Administration who are openly planning their own illegal transition in Cuba.

Filter EDMs by:
Total number of signatures: 86

Lots of people agreed this was a good measure, what's the problem? sUpporting progress means just that...in your mind does supporting these support the idea of a cruel dictatorship? Doesn't make sense, with that kind of thinking Nazi Germany would never ever be allowed to become a normal country again??

now, wich other dictatorships does Corby support or else you can furnish the board with your fears of a labour govt which protect people from exploitation
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
That this House commends the achievements of Fidel Castro in securing first-class free healthcare and education provision for the people of Cuba despite the 44 year illegal US embargo of the Cuban economy; notes the great strides Cuba has taken during this period in many fields such as biotechnology and sport in both of which Cuba is a world leader; acknowledges the esteem in which Castro is held by the people and leaders of Africa, Asia and Latin America for leading the calls for emancipation of the world's poorest people from slavery, hunger and the denial of human rights such as the right to life, the right to shelter, the right to healthcare and basic medicines and the right to education; welcomes the EU statement that constructive engagement with Cuba at this time is the most responsible course of action; and calls upon the Government to respect Cuba's right to self-determination and resist the aggressive forces within the US Administration who are openly planning their own illegal transition in Cuba.

Filter EDMs by:
Total number of signatures: 86

Lots of people agreed this was a good measure, what's the problem? sUpporting progress means just that...in your mind does supporting these support the idea of a cruel dictatorship? Doesn't make sense, with that kind of thinking Nazi Germany would never ever be allowed to become a normal country again??

now, wich other dictatorships does Corby support or else you can furnish the board with your fears of a labour govt which protect people from exploitation
Do you accept that corbyn supports the dictator Castro, yes or no?  If not then there's little point me providing further proof that you will only pooh-pooh in your own inimitable fashion..
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 10:19:39 PM
Do you accept that corbyn supports the dictator Castro, yes or no?  If not then there's little point me providing further proof that you will only pooh-pooh in your own inimitable fashion..

Corbyn and other supported progressive measures......not the notion of a dictatorship.....can't u tell the difference?????

Cameron support Saudi Arabia hence cutting off people's hands and burying women adulterers in the sand and stoning their heads till they die,,,, hello???? Which one is worse
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 10:36:20 PM
A thank you to whoever  for deletion of Eleanor's disgusting post
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 10:36:26 PM
Corbyn and other supported progressive measures......not the notion of a dictatorship.....can't u tell the difference?????

Cameron support Saudi Arabia hence cutting off people's hands and burying women adulterers in the sand and stoning their heads till they die,,,, hello???? Which one is worse
The motion I posted a link to specifically asked the house of commons to commend dictator Fidel Castro, and is signed by (amongst others) one Jeremy Corbyn.  Are you continuing to deny that Corbyn supports (and clearly admires) Castro?  Because if you are, despite clear proof that i have given confirming it, then there is no point me continuing to engage with you on this matter.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 20, 2015, 10:40:34 PM
The motion I posted a link to specifically asked the house of commons to commend dictator Fidel Castro, and is signed by (amongst others) one Jeremy Corbyn.  Are you continuing to deny that Corbyn supports (and clearly admires) Castro?  Because if you are, despite clear proof that i have given confirming it, then there is no point me continuing to engage with you on this matter.

You are wrong you have to differentiate between supporting the notion of a dictatorship and voting for progress in a country that might have one, if you don't you are dictatorial yourself....
now, any comment in Cameron supporting cutting people's hands off!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2015, 10:58:14 PM
Do you accept that corbyn supports the dictator Castro, yes or no?  If not then there's little point me providing further proof that you will only pooh-pooh in your own inimitable fashion..

Try comparing and contrasting Cuba and Saudi Arabia, Alfred. One is ruled by a communist party and the other by a monarchy. Neither has a great Human Rights record. One is shunned by UK governments and they sell arms to the other.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 20, 2015, 11:05:59 PM
Try comparing and contrasting Cuba and Saudi Arabia, Alfred. One is ruled by a communist party and the other by a monarchy. Neither has a great Human Rights record. One is shunned by UK governments and they sell arms to the other.
My only reason for bringing up Castro was because Mercury asked me to back up my contention that Corbyn supports dictatorships.  I have proven beyond doubt that he supports Castro and am not intersted in comparing and contrasting Cuba with any other country - start a new thread for that if you wish, this one is about Corbyn and what he stands for.  He also expressed support for Gadaffi a few years back, lost the link momentarily and off to bed now, but will supply tomorrow as you're bound to want see it!
ETA found it - written by a member of the far left, not a smeary old member of the Tory press before you go off on one.. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-wing-case-against-comrade-jeremy-corbyn-1513969
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 20, 2015, 11:24:33 PM
My only reason for bringing up Castro was because Mercury asked me to back up my contention that Corbyn supports dictatorships.  I have proven beyond doubt that he supports Castro and am not intersted in comparing and contrasting Cuba with any other country - start a new thread for that if you wish, this one is about Corbyn and what he stands for.  He also expressed support for Gadaffi a few years back, lost the link momentarily and off to bed now, but will supply tomorrow as you're bound to want see it!
ETA found it - written by a member of the far left, not a smeary old member of the Tory press before you go off on one.. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-wing-case-against-comrade-jeremy-corbyn-1513969

The link you provided showed that Corbyn and others supported Castro's achievements in providing good healthcare and education. I doubt he supports Castro's human rights record. All regimes have good and bad, including democracies, republics and monarchies.

The NHS is turning to Cuba for inspiration on how to improve its services. Officials from the Department of Heath and 100 GPs visited the Caribbean island which, despite being short of medicines and money after decades of a US-led economic embargo, manages to deliver excellent healthcare at a fraction of our cost.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/oct/02/NHS.futureofthenhs
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 12:05:36 AM
My only reason for bringing up Castro was because Mercury asked me to back up my contention that Corbyn supports dictatorships.  I have proven beyond doubt that he supports Castro and am not intersted in comparing and contrasting Cuba with any other country - start a new thread for that if you wish, this one is about Corbyn and what he stands for.  He also expressed support for Gadaffi a few years back, lost the link momentarily and off to bed now, but will supply tomorrow as you're bound to want see it!
ETA found it - written by a member of the far left, not a smeary old member of the Tory press before you go off on one.. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/james-bloodworth-left-wing-case-against-comrade-jeremy-corbyn-1513969

yOu seem to keep hiding from the question does Corbyn support the idea of dictatorships ( your spin) or good measures...where the other dictatorships you mentioned?
Desperate I would  say in a hatred of The Labour Party....when it was probably that party that protected you and your ancestors unless you were a Baron, land owner etc...Cameron is NOT the champion of the hard working family, he is a liar in that respect but he passes the buck in that to his evil side kick Osborne, the one that is happy with the fact that HE can waste 45 billion of tax payers money's selling off a bank but demand 12 billion from welfare and have suicides on his hands, shouldn't you be thoroughly ashamed to support such a bunch of sadists????
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 08:18:39 AM
The link you provided showed that Corbyn and others supported Castro's achievements in providing good healthcare and education. I doubt he supports Castro's human rights record. All regimes have good and bad, including democracies, republics and monarchies.

The NHS is turning to Cuba for inspiration on how to improve its services. Officials from the Department of Heath and 100 GPs visited the Caribbean island which, despite being short of medicines and money after decades of a US-led economic embargo, manages to deliver excellent healthcare at a fraction of our cost.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/oct/02/NHS.futureofthenhs
What apologist tosh.  Hitler achieved plenty for his country too - would it be have been OK to commend HIS achievements to the house?  It really is astounding that you refuse to accept that Corbyn supports Castro and his anti US regime, of course he does !
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 08:19:59 AM
NB: I see the Tory press have printed all sorts of wild stories about Caneron this morning - I trust you will all be very vocal in condemning such bullying!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 08:22:57 AM
If Corbyn does not defend Castro's human rights records then where is his public condemnation of it?  Or does he prefer to keep quiet on that subject for some reason?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 08:49:50 AM
NB: I see the Tory press have printed all sorts of wild stories about Caneron this morning - I trust you will all be very vocal in condemning such bullying!

Do you mean the story about him and a certain animal in 'Call Me Dave?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 09:22:27 AM
Do you mean the story about him and a certain animal in 'Call Me Dave?  @)(++(*
Yes I do.  Now, had such a story been dredged up about dear old Jez, I'm sure you (or if not you then other Corbynistas) would be ranting about smears, bullying and evil Tory press s..m, etc etc - am I right or am I right (and I don't mean in my politics...)?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 10:07:13 AM
Yes I do.  Now, had such a story been dredged up about dear old Jez, I'm sure you (or if not you then other Corbynistas) would be ranting about smears, bullying and evil Tory press s..m, etc etc - am I right or am I right (and I don't mean in my politics...)?

The interesting thing is that this story comes from a biography written by a Tory. With friends like that Dave doesn't need enemies. The best the papers could find on Corbyn was his great great grandad was a rather nasty workhouse official who bullied the poor; obviously he was  a Tory at heart.  @)(++(*

Both stories demonstrate the futility of either reading or giving credence to newspaper stories.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 10:23:11 AM
The interesting thing is that this story comes from a biography written by a Tory. With friends like that Dave doesn't need enemies. The best the papers could find on Corbyn was his great great grandad was a rather nasty workhouse official who bullied the poor; obviously he was  a Tory at heart.  @)(++(*

Both stories demonstrate the futility of either reading or giving credence to newspaper stories.
Why so?  If the story is a blatant lie then Dave will have no choice but to sue won't he?  Or at least that's the logic I've seen used around these parts when it comes to smeary stories in the press about others. 

I note you failed to actually answer my question btw.  Is it not true that the Tory s..m press could have chosen to ignore this book?  The fact that they have leapt upon this particular detail with glee seems to demonstrate to me that they'd print a damning story about their own grandmothers in order to sell a paper and that no one in the public eye (particularly those who put themselves forward as leaders and do-gooders) is safe from being picked on, exposed and ridiculed.  Which, if you're in favour of a free press, is what you have to expect, even if you're as saintly and altruistic as  Jeremy Corbyn.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 10:28:50 AM
It shows some of his colleagues want to get rid of him (but we already knew that).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 11:04:02 AM
Why so?  If the story is a blatant lie then Dave will have no choice but to sue won't he?  Or at least that's the logic I've seen used around these parts when it comes to smeary stories in the press about others. 

I note you failed to actually answer my question btw.  Is it not true that the Tory s..m press could have chosen to ignore this book?  The fact that they have leapt upon this particular detail with glee seems to demonstrate to me that they'd print a damning story about their own grandmothers in order to sell a paper and that no one in the public eye (particularly those who put themselves forward as leaders and do-gooders) is safe from being picked on, exposed and ridiculed.  Which, if you're in favour of a free press, is what you have to expect, even if you're as saintly and altruistic as  Jeremy Corbyn.

I'm in favour of a press which is free to inform, investigate and even amuse. I'm not in favour of a press which resorts to ridicule and bullying of anyone. The stories the press write are often, as you say, merely written to sell newspapers and they are aimed at the lowest common denominator. If anyone wants to learn anything worth knowing the newspapers should, on the whole, be avoided imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 11:07:57 AM
I would avoid Twitter today, Alfred @)(++(* There is much hilarity.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 11:19:41 AM
I would avoid Twitter today, Alfred @)(++(* There is much hilarity.
Of course there is - what makes you think I'd be remotely bothered?  I know you have me pegged as a Tory, but as I have already said I've never once voted for them, sorry to disappoint.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 11:21:25 AM
It shows some of his colleagues want to get rid of him (but we already knew that).
So - no one is safe then - everyone of any and every political persuasion is free game as far as the press are concerned.  Last week it was Corbyn, this week Cameron, next week...?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 11:24:05 AM
Of course there is - what makes you think I'd be remotely bothered?  I know you have me pegged as a Tory, but as I have already said I've never once voted for them, sorry to disappoint.

You sounded bothered. Why not regard this Mail report the way you regard smears against Corbyn, you asked.

Well, Cameron's only got where he is with the backing of those papers now having a go at him. If you live by the sword...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 11:27:24 AM
So - no one is safe then - everyone of any and every political persuasion is free game as far as the press are concerned.  Last week it was Corbyn, this week Cameron, next week...?

The Mail is serialising a book, written by a former Tory treasurer/donor? They probably already knew this rumour, but never printed it until the book was published.

Serialising a book isn't the same thing as indulging in a sustained campaign day after day against an individual.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 12:34:09 PM
You sounded bothered. Why not regard this Mail report the way you regard smears against Corbyn, you asked.

Well, Cameron's only got where he is with the backing of those papers now having a go at him. If you live by the sword...
I actually think its highly likely that the story about Dave is true, or at least based on truth.  And if there's a photo then it will doubtless surface now.  I think it's utterly hilarious but if it pleases you to imagine I'm crying in front of my laptop over it then fill yer boots.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 12:35:29 PM
The Mail is serialising a book, written by a former Tory treasurer/donor? They probably already knew this rumour, but never printed it until the book was published.

Serialising a book isn't the same thing as indulging in a sustained campaign day after day against an individual.
ORLY?  Do you think the taint of face-f....ing a pig will ever leave Dave now?  Let's hope they don't call in Eddie and Keela to verify the rumour.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 01:04:23 PM
The absolute panic of the establishment is very amusing. Does Corbyn really pose such a threat to their stranglehold on power? Now we have an un-named general allegedly predicting a military coup if Labour are elected to government with Corbyn as leader. How telling that they are so afraid of a man with principles.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 01:47:16 PM
The absolute panic of the establishment is very amusing. Does Corbyn really pose such a threat to their stranglehold on power? Now we have an un-named general allegedly predicting a military coup if Labour are elected to government with Corbyn as leader. How telling that they are so afraid of a man with principles.
If Corbyn's principles with regard to foreign policy and terrorism measures pose a threat to national security then anyone who cares about the future of this country has reason to be concerned.  Mind you, the fact that we also have (allegedly) a general in the army planning a military coup following a democratic election is equally worrying tbh! 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 01:54:27 PM
ORLY?  Do you think the taint of face-f.....g a pig will ever leave Dave now?  Let's hope they don't call in Eddie and Keela to verify the rumour.   @)(++(*

Hell hath no fury. This is internal Tory struggle. The man deserves everything that comes to him.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 02:00:25 PM
Hell hath no fury. This is internal Tory struggle. The man deserves everything that comes to him.

I predict some strange grunting noises being heard during PMQ's this week.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 02:04:12 PM
I predict some strange grunting noises being heard during PMQ's this week.  @)(++(*

8)--)) Some cracking gags I've read today. But I'm boared now.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 21, 2015, 02:10:47 PM
I predict some strange grunting noises being heard during PMQ's this week.  @)(++(*

The next one should be a bit of a snort.

i wonder if Cameron will give another hammy performance in parliament. 8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 02:12:28 PM
It's funny how you're all so enjoying the evisceration when the shoe is on the other foot.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 21, 2015, 02:14:58 PM
I don't believe you will find Corbyn  caught with his trousers down. @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 03:02:59 PM
I don't believe you will find Corbyn  caught with his trousers down. @)(++(*
Maybe that's one reason Diane Abbott got a job in the shadow cabinet - no lurid memoirs likely to be forth-coming in the near future..  8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 07:01:50 PM
8)--)) Some cracking gags I've read today. But I'm boared now.

Cracking or crackling?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 07:11:20 PM
Cracking or crackling?

You can't blame him he needed an excellent education to insure he could always bring home the bacon lmao

ewwww don't know if the story is true or not, I wish we hadn't been told, need mind bleach now...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 07:17:45 PM
You can't blame him he needed an excellent education to insure he could always bring home the bacon lmao

ewwww don't know if the story is true or not, I wish we hadn't been told, need mind bleach now...

Of all the stories of men putting their bits where they shouldn't this one is pretty disgusting. I wonder if he'll sue and go for a bit of book-banning?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 07:31:45 PM
Of all the stories of men putting their bits where they shouldn't this one is pretty disgusting. I wonder if he'll sue and go for a bit of book-banning?

I thnk he's probably stuck between a rock and a hard place here....can you imagine the writ? Lol

If he says nothing and does nothing people will wonder, (probably best option as people who snort,excuse the pun, cocaine at a tender age at an Oxbridge institution with their funny old habits do do stupid things and people know this) if he does do somethng people will think and talk about it, either way he's screwed....doesn't do a lot for his image does it.




Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 08:14:14 PM
It makes you wonder though - if even the PM isn't safe from being exposed  by the media, then how is it that the dastardly McCanns can wield such power over the press to have all their skeletons kept well and truly in the closet... &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 08:20:02 PM
It makes you wonder though - if even the PM isn't safe from being exposed  by the media, then how is it that the dastardly McCanns can wield such power over the press to have all their skeletons kept well and truly in the closet... &%+((£

Witnesses or lack of for starters
Egg on face for all the rest
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on September 21, 2015, 08:51:37 PM
It makes you wonder though - if even the PM isn't safe from being exposed  by the media, then how is it that the dastardly McCanns can wield such power over the press to have all their skeletons kept well and truly in the closet... &%+((£

Erm, the media haven't exposed Dave, the writers of the book and it's publishers have.

If and when a book on this case is published the papers might well serialise that too. But in both cases it won't be their work.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 09:22:52 PM
I thnk he's probably stuck between a rock and a hard place here....can you imagine the writ? Lol

If he says nothing and does nothing people will wonder, (probably best option as people who snort,excuse the pun, cocaine at a tender age at an Oxbridge institution with their funny old habits do do stupid things and people know this) if he does do somethng people will think and talk about it, either way he's screwed....doesn't do a lot for his image does it.

It's cheered me up anyway. we have Doc Martin on TV at the moment and it's about a pig farmer. I will be smiling at pigs for some time I think.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 21, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Napoleon met his Waterloo, Cameron met his bacon. 8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on September 21, 2015, 09:27:27 PM
Erm, the media haven't exposed Dave, the writers of the book and it's publishers have.

If and when a book on this case is published the papers might well serialise that too. But in both cases it won't be their work.
The book hasn't been published yet.  The ToryDaily Mail published the story this morning.  No one forced them to.  It is now all over the world's media.  The media broke the story, even if they did not actually author it in the first place.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 09:35:55 PM
It's cheered me up anyway. we have Doc Martin on TV at the moment and it's about a pig farmer. I will be smiling at pigs for some time I think.

lol
Maybe Cameron will get the chop from other members, poor soul, imagine if this is what he is remembered for, cos for sure he's done nothing as PM so far he can be remembered for...nothing at all
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Napoleon met his Waterloo, Cameron met his bacon. 8)--))

Or the Pig met his sausage lol
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 21, 2015, 09:37:58 PM
lol
Maybe Cameron will get the chop from other members, poor soul, imagine if this is what he is remembered for, cos for sure he's done nothing as PM so far he can be remembered for...nothing at all
[/quote

A pork chop, naturally.  *&*%£ *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 21, 2015, 09:43:42 PM


I wonder if Cameron felt a little cut short. 8(>((


It could explain the expression on his face.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on September 21, 2015, 10:11:49 PM
lol
Maybe Cameron will get the chop from other members, poor soul, imagine if this is what he is remembered for, cos for sure he's done nothing as PM so far he can be remembered for...nothing at all

A pork chop, naturally.  *&*%£ *&*%£

Yeah the only medallions he'll be getting any time soon lol
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on September 22, 2015, 10:56:40 AM
It makes you wonder though - if even the PM isn't safe from being exposed  by the media, then how is it that the dastardly McCanns can wield such power over the press to have all their skeletons kept well and truly in the closet... &%+((£


Exposed to the media ?

By all accounts, if true, he exposed himself. 8**8:/:
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2015, 08:41:14 AM
Following discussions with my friends* on the Madeleine McCann forum I thought it would be interesting to continue the discussion here. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that pigs will sprout wings and fly before Corbyn gets his hands on the keys of Number 10, but putting that to one side - what do we think of his views, his ability to lead the Labour Party and the country, his beard and dress sense, etc?

* (friends in this instance is used in the same way as Corbyn claimed he used the word to describe the terrorist sympathisers he shared a platform with, ie: a bunch of people whose views I vehemently oppose but it's always good to talk!)

Dead pigs or live pigs? which forum is 'the Madeleine Mccann forum' I wonder?

However; how do people think Corbyn has done so far? I find it most amusing how media interviewers have no idea how to deal with a politician who doesn't use spin. Eamonn Holmes seems to have the prize for the worst attempt at the moment.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on October 01, 2015, 01:43:54 PM
Holmes, and many other attention seekers (e.g. Crick on Channel Four News), are just trolling, because the odds are definitely high on Jezza telling them to s*d off one day. And who could blame him. Not me &%&£(+

I think he's done well, G ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 01, 2015, 02:12:16 PM
Holmes, and many other attention seekers (e.g. Crick on Channel Four News), are just trolling, because the odds are definitely high on Jezza telling them to s*d off one day. And who could blame him. Not me &%&£(+

I think he's done well, G ?{)(**

I agree. Taking it slowly and reminding everyone of his mandate frequently. Some of the front bench faces at Congress were a picture. I see Putin has wrong-footed everyone again.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Lyall on October 01, 2015, 03:50:05 PM
Don't mention al qaeda. I mentioned them once but I think I got away with it

It's the al qaeda affiliate(s) the Russians are bombing I presume, while the Americans (and us) are effectively in alliance with them.

Nobody mentions them any more. The American don't, Cameron doesn't, Hilary Benn won't. Even Russia won't mention them by name.

The conflict is an Orwellian nightmare 8(8-)) One day our media is applauding the Kurds. Next day they're thrown down the memory hole after Turkey (Nato member of course) starts bombing them.

Meanwhile governments in the region are financing Isis and somebody is buying the oil from the fields they control (maybe our oil companies), while Iran, who could defeat them, isn't allowed to.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 01, 2015, 10:16:33 PM
Lyall when has that kind of thng never been true..most  of them are hypocrites and corrupt and sold out early on

I did like Corbyn in his conference address yesterday asking Cameron to find a moment to make an appeal to Saudi Arabia to stop the crucifixion of a young man sentenced to death for taking part in some demonstration...if Cameron does not do this then he is a prize hypocrite when he describes Isis as a barbaric death cult
Just to think this country does arms and other business with a govt that crucifixes people is mind boggling..oh hang on

All power to Corbyn to stick it up em

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on October 14, 2015, 08:37:09 AM
Mike Gapes, Labour MP for Ilford South,  said: “There is now no collective shadow cabinet responsibility in our party, no clarity on economic policy and no credible leadership".

on McDonnel and Corbyn's first major U-turn re: support for Osborne's charter.  Well said Mr Gapes!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 14, 2015, 10:33:52 PM
Wouldn't worry your little head about it much if I were you

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 15, 2015, 09:05:31 AM
Osborne's charter is a peculiar thing. It commits the government to running a surplus 'in normal times' whatever that means. i expect most governments will argue that times are abnormal any time they want to run a deficit, don't you? It will be interesting to see if this government can get their finances into the black. They have been borrowing like mad since they came into power and the deficit has risen. They will never clear it with the peanuts they'll save by attacking the unemployed and the sick. The majority of the benefits spending is on pensions.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 18, 2015, 03:08:14 AM
Osborne is Count Dracula, he has a history degree and a record for folding towels and snorting Coke, great apointment wasn't he?

This bunch of lying and incompetent muppets will be the end of the tories govt...labour will come in next time, Corbyn is a clever and decent bloke

Tories,the  party of the working people LoooooooL X 10000
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 27, 2015, 07:25:57 AM
A big fuss about the House of Lords refusing to pass the working tax credit cuts. The media are saying that the Lords have never refused financial proposals before, but I seem to remember one of Thatcher's schemes being defeated. It was proposed that parents should pay for school buses instead of getting them free. I had three children using free school buses at the time and it would have made a big difference having to pay for them. I wrote to my MP but he replied saying it was nothing to do with him. Then the Lords refused to agree with it and it died a death. Does anyone else remember that?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 29, 2015, 05:12:47 AM
Oh hahaha cameron and fellow freaks who have the brass neck to call themselves protectors of working people   have got all this to look forward to...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06n4wq6/prime-ministers-questions-28102015 *&*%

Lets face it the tories would be happy with all working people including their seven yr olds slave all day for nothng but a boiled onion at the end of it...like ther victorian sadistic predecessors lol
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2015, 08:13:45 AM
Interesting article in the Independent;

Jeremy Corbyn continues to lead the campaign for the Labour party to once again become the party of decent, hard-working people. As Tory support for the rich grows and the Prime Minister moves ever further right, perhaps those critical of Corbyn’s perceived radicalness will welcome the balance he realistically provides.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-corbyn-quote-at-pmqs-that-silenced-his-critics-once-and-for-all-a6712001.html

Seems answering questions sensibly and truthfully is beyond Cameron's abilities;

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2015/oct/28/corbyn-asks-cameron-same-tax-credits-question-six-times-pmqs-video
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 30, 2015, 07:04:07 PM
Corbyn will wipe the floor with him every time as he is leader and Camerons luxury of empty fob off answers at PMQs whch cannot be challenged by any one MP,  will be curtailed

I await the handbags at dawn with Osbourne
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on October 30, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
Corbyn will wipe the floor with him every time as he is leader and Camerons luxury of empty fob off answers at PMQs whch cannot be challenged by any one MP,  will be curtailed

I await the handbags at dawn with Osbourne

People never learn. Thatcher's nemesis was the poll tax, will Cameron's be the tax credit cuts?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on October 30, 2015, 08:03:09 PM
People never learn. Thatcher's nemesis was the poll tax, will Cameron's be the tax credit cuts?

very possible, the bedroom tax was the harbinger of doom, but not enough to affect mllions....i hope the shameless orangutan..almost literally such....grows a pair and sacks his cokehead chancellor but of course he wont
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 21, 2015, 07:01:51 PM
 @)(++(*

My Week: Jeremy Corbyn*
 

Hugo Rifkind 

Last updated at 12:01AM, November 21 2015
 


Monday
 A meeting to discuss the terrorist threat with my three top advisers. Who are a) John McDonnell, b) that guy from The Guardian who thinks everything is Tony Blair’s fault, and c) Andrew, my policy chief, who is suspended from Labour and thus, according to subsection 3.5.1 of the party constitution, only allowed to come to meetings if he keeps a bin on his head.

“Shoot to kill,” says the Guardian guy. “Obviously we’re against it. But why? Anybody?”

“Bwah-bomby-bah-dubbabadum?” says the policy guy, faintly, inside his bin.

John says he thinks he’s asking whether Tony Blair has expressed a view.

“No,” says the Guardian guy. “The selfish git.”

Listen, I say. This is easy. Of course we don’t want policemen to shoot terrorist suspects. Rather, we want them to express a fervent comprehension of the alienation felt by an unrepresentative subsection of coincidentally Muslim youth by the oppressive neoliberal Zionist hegemony.

“But quite quickly,” says John.

“And from distant rooftops,” says the Guardian guy.

“Exactly,” I say.

Tuesday
 Last night we had a meeting of the parliamentary Labour party. It went very badly. A huge assortment of moderates and Blairites banded together to say I was weak on terror.

OK fine, I say. Enough of this. Let’s just shoot them.

“Finally!” says my policy guy, wrenching off his bin.

I mean the terrorists, I clarify.

“Oh,” says my policy guy, and puts it back on again.

Wednesday
 Keen to show how safe and trustworthy I am on all things terror and military related, I have appointed Ken Livingstone as co-convenor of Labour’s defence review. And I don’t even drink.

Unfortunately, there are calls for him to resign by lunchtime, after my shadow defence minister says it’s a bad appointment, and Ken says he must be depressed and need medical help, and it turns out he was, and did.

“I’m from South London,” says Ken. “We retaliate.”

“I’m from North London,” I say, “and we don’t.”

“But you’re just a weird old man in sandals,” says Ken.

“I respect your position on this,” I say.

Thursday
 It’s a bad day. John McDonnell is under attack for signing a letter saying we should disarm the police and disband MI5.

“Rubbish,” says John. “Never happened.”

“But there’s a photograph of you holding it,” says the Guardian guy. Then he says the policy guy signed it, too, but the policy guy doesn’t say anything. Maybe he can’t hear us. Maybe somebody else is under the bin, and he’s taken the day off. There’s no knowing.

Also, the party is in revolt about my policy on Syria.

“Although on the plus side,” says the Guardian guy, “at least they think you’ve got one.”

Friday
 I do have a policy on Syria. I am in favour of a political settlement. And I am firmly against bombing without UN approval. And, if there is UN approval, my slightly more secret policy is to simply cough every time anybody asks me about it.

And so, today, I am holding an emergency meeting with senior Labour MPs, in order to spell this out.

“We shall fight them in the sub-committees,” I tell them. “We shall fight them in the round-table discussion forums brokered by neutral third parties. We shall fight them in the minuted, ad-hoc panels of interested regional parties. And we shall never, ever, surrender.”

There is an unexpected dearth of cheering.

“But what happens,” says Hilary Benn, “if the UN authorises military strikes?”

“Cough?” I say.

“Get him a lozenge!” shouts John Mann.

“He’s going to be sick!” shouts Yvette Cooper.

“Give him your bin!” shouts Andy Burnham.

*According to Hugo Rifkind

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on November 22, 2015, 09:42:18 AM
Jesus, Alf....did you just see John McDonnell on the Andrew Marr Show? Just as I thought when I saw him on Question Time, the man is an absolute simpleton.    %56&
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 22, 2015, 11:30:38 AM
Jesus, Alf....did you just see John McDonnell on the Andrew Marr Show? Just as I thought when I saw him on Question Time, the man is an absolute simpleton.    %56&
I'm afraid none of them has covered themselves in glory in the last couple of weeks.  It would be terrifying if it wasn't so comical, or should that be the other way round...? &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on November 23, 2015, 11:17:01 PM
Whilst all sane people feel the need to nuke the ignorant drug addicted isis criminals who hVe committed crimes against humanity and all cultures, someone has to keep the balance and remind people of accountabilty if they make things worse as they have a pattern of doing

Let them know what they are doing

The backdrop is getting rid of assad, god help us if they do
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfred R Jones on November 24, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
Now Jez is even attracting criticism from his big supporters in the Unions.  Who gives this man 6 months? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on November 24, 2015, 10:36:04 PM
As long as he keeps the incompetent (nothing to add to cv) Cameron and some of the  more despicable members of the so called cabinet busy answering important questions he is worth his weight in gold
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 12:39:49 PM
A question for Jez supporters on this thread - do you still see your man as an authentic conviction politician?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on June 26, 2016, 12:44:49 PM
A question for Jez supporters on this thread - do you still see your man as an authentic conviction politician?

Christ on a bike. Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump.

The world's gone mad.    8)><(
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
Christ on a bike. Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump.

The world's gone mad.    8)><(
Indeed it has. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 26, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
People never learn. Thatcher's nemesis was the poll tax, will Cameron's be the tax credit cuts?
Erm...no.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on June 27, 2016, 12:55:48 PM
A question for Jez supporters on this thread - do you still see your man as an authentic conviction politician?

I always ever saw Jez as an interim leader of the Labour Party.  His populist support in London which enabled him to walk the leadership election has never been reproduced in the Labour heartlands.  This has been borne out by the latest referendum where Labour voters in middle and northern England voted contrary to Party policy.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 27, 2016, 03:10:46 PM
I always ever saw Jez as an interim leader of the Labour Party.  His populist support in London which enabled him to walk the leadership election has never been reproduced in the Labour heartlands.  This has been borne out by the latest referendum where Labour voters in middle and northern England voted contrary to Party policy.

I can't help but admire his stuborn refusal to go in the face of all the flouncing.

40 resignations thus far.

It's just a shame that the anti democratic David Lammy hasn't gone.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-resignations-live-angela-eagle-8290979
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 27, 2016, 03:15:45 PM

Jeremy Corbyn supporters to march on parliament to demand that Labour leader keeps job
.

(http://www.independent.co.uk/s3/files/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/06/27/13/corbynpolice.jpg)

Thousands of people are to descend on parliament to demand Jeremy Corbyn keeps his job.

Amid mass resignations in the shadow cabinet, supporters of the Labour leader are being urged to march on Parliament Square to demand that Corbyn stays as Labour leader.

The event was posted onto Facebook by the Momentum campaign group, in the wake of the resignation of a large number of Corbyn’s shadow cabinet. In the hours after the event, thousands of people have said that they will be at the event, which begins at 6pm.


Shadow chancellor John McDonnell and Diane Abbott – both high-profile supporters of Corbyn’s leadership – are to speak at the event. Other high-profile Corbyn allies such as journalist Paul Mason and trade unionists will also speak at the event.

It is being supported by a hashtag campaign that urges people to tweet with #KeepCorbyn.

Those behind the event have said that it is a reaction to what they see as a right-wing takeover of the Labour party, against the wishes of its membership.

“The future is uncertain,” reads a message on the event’s page. “We face a Tory Brexit, Cameron has resigned and we are likely to have a general election in the coming months with the potential of Britain lurching yet further to the right.


“A small number of Labour MPs are using this as an opportunity to oust Jeremy, disrespect the Labour membership who elected him and disregard our movement for a new kind of politics.

“We cannot let this undemocratic behaviour succeed.”

The Facebook page is busy with messages of support for the protest, from people urging others to attend.

“Let's be clear this is not a small number of MPs this is the full scale right wing revolt,” writes one user. “The PLP is again treating Labour membership with complete contempt.”

But others have written on its wall to support those MPs who have been sacked or have resigned in protest at Mr Corbyn’s leadership. “No point in leading a government for the people if your peers do not support you,” writes one user.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-labour-leader-shadow-cabinet-latest-news-eu-referendum-a7105666.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 04:05:38 PM
I always ever saw Jez as an interim leader of the Labour Party.  His populist support in London which enabled him to walk the leadership election has never been reproduced in the Labour heartlands.  This has been borne out by the latest referendum where Labour voters in middle and northern England voted contrary to Party policy.ng, he will be yesterday's man before the weeks out.  Whether he can come back is another question?
He's determined to go down fighting, even if it means destroying the Labour Party in the process. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on June 27, 2016, 08:06:27 PM
He's determined to go down fighting, even if it means destroying the Labour Party in the process.

Why shouldnt he, the backstabbers and cowards and bandwagon jumpers can go join the tories if they want now, and bloody good riddance

We shall see if the party is destroyed and who were the culprits

You shouldnt worry your little head though,worry about the far right sneaking up then this country is well and truly ....well you know the word
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 08:52:16 PM
Why shouldnt he, the backstabbers and cowards and bandwagon jumpers can go join the tories if they want now, and bloody good riddance

We shall see if the party is destroyed and who were the culprits

You shouldnt worry your little head though,worry about the far right sneaking up then this country is well and truly ....well you know the word
And that is precisely why we need an opposition that has more than a snowball in hell's chance of standing up to them.  Corbyn is not more important than the party. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on June 27, 2016, 09:46:43 PM
And that is precisely why we need an opposition that has more than a snowball in hell's chance of standing up to them.  Corbyn is not more important than the party.

Tories are now the far right?
JC as far as I know is not a far right apologiser,qute the opposite, so this logic seems all skewed

Eta

The cabinet traitors are not more important than the party....angela eagle was complaining today JC didnt call her back yesterday and it miffed her, well i imagine he had alot on his mind, what a waste of space that woman is as are the people who thnk she should be next labour leader LOLOLOLOLOL!!! And LOL for good measure

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 27, 2016, 11:08:33 PM
Tories are now the far right?
JC as far as I know is not a far right apologiser,qute the opposite, so this logic seems all skewed

Eta

The cabinet traitors are not more important than the party....angela eagle was complaining today JC didnt call her back yesterday and it miffed her, well i imagine he had alot on his mind, what a waste of space that woman is as are the people who thnk she should be next labour leader LOLOLOLOLOL!!! And LOL for good measure
The leave vote and the ensuing shake up means the Tory party is almost certainly moving further to the right, yes.  Your second sentence makes no sense.  I am suggesting we need a serious electable opposition to counter the proliferation of right wing ideology in parliament.   
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on June 27, 2016, 11:14:42 PM
The leave vote and the ensuing shake up means the Tory party is almost certainly moving further to the right, yes.  Your second sentence makes no sense.  I am suggesting we need a serious electable opposition to counter the proliferation of right wing ideology in parliament.
And a backstabbing cowardly  motley crew is gonna sort it out, get real

Ps the right of the tories isnt the fkn far right
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 08:13:32 AM
And a backstabbing cowardly  motley crew is gonna sort it out, get real

Ps the right of the tories isnt the fkn far right
I really don't think you know what you're talking about.  The far right of the Tories isn't far right???  What is it then?

The EDL and the BNP are closer to national socialists, which in my opinion have more in common with the far left than the far right, but that's another discussion.  If you think Jeremy Corbyn has the makings of a great leader and will win the next election then obviously that is your opinion and all opinions are valid on this forum but personally I think you are very, very wrong.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on June 28, 2016, 05:19:23 PM
Wow - over 80% of Labour MPs have no confidence in Corbyn, so where does he go from here?   
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on June 28, 2016, 08:47:10 PM
Wow - over 80% of Labour MPs have no confidence in Corbyn, so where does he go from here?   

Crises are like buses, theres none for ages then three come at once!
It normally all works out ok.
Ps the far right are not the tories far right they are a hate group
And the fact you seem to think the left are no different is pathetic
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 01, 2016, 08:22:04 PM
Corbyn anti-Semitism claims were ‘deliberate media misrepresentation’

Published time: 1 Jul, 2016 15:04

 Mainstream media attacks on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn for reportedly comparing Israel to Islamic State and failing to defend a Jewish MP from verbal abuse have been described as ‘deliberate misinterpretations’.

Parts of Britain’s media have been quick to condemn Corbyn for his performance at a news conference on Thursday, where he launched a report into Labour’s handling of anti-Semitism.

The Labour leader was accused of comparing Israel to Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) and for not intervening when a Jewish MP was attacked by a Corbyn supporter for leaking stories to the right-wing press.

According to Shami Chakrabarti, who authored the report and chaired the press conference, both allegations are false.

The barrister described media reports of the conference as “deliberate misrepresentation of the leader’s speech by people who are very, very quick to misunderstand and condemn.”

In a speech welcoming Chakrabarti, the Labour leader said: “Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organizations.”

Within minutes, the MSM accused Corbyn of comparing the Israeli government to Islamist terror groups.

Politics Home reports sources close to Corbyn deny the leader was referring to IS or any other terrorist organization, insisting he meant Islamic countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

The modern term ‘Islamic state’ is attributed to Pakistani theologian Abul A'la Maududi and describes countries whose systems of government incorporate political Islam.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4 on Friday morning, Chakrabarti said the comparison was based on her own report.

“He was making no comparison whatsoever between Israel and ISIS or anybody else. He was making the comparison which I make in my report,” said the former barrister and chief of human rights organization Liberty.

Asked why he didn’t reference those Islamic countries by name, she replied: “My understanding is that he was referring to all of those states and organizations who describe themselves as Muslim or Islamic.

“The point I make in my report, which he’s referencing in a shorter speech, is a comparison not between various states – because my report’s not about foreign policy – but a comparison between the prejudice that minority groups in Britain can face in the light of events that happen elsewhere,” she continued.

Corbyn has also been condemned for his alleged failure to intervene when Momentum member Marc Wadsworth, along with Jewish MP Ruth Smeeth, was accused of leaking stories to the media.

However this too was debunked by Chakrabarti, who told the BBC the Labour leader “backed me up” when she reprimanded the man for his interjection.

“[Corbyn] concurred with me when I admonished the gentleman in question for heckling, not just Ms. Smeeth, but me [also], and for abusing the privilege of asking a question at a national press conference. The leader completely concurred with me and backed me up.

Chakrabarti was then asked about a blog entry written shortly after the incident by Smeeth, in which she said the Labour leader’s office had not been in touch to apologize.

“Well, she wrote that blog as soon as the events happened,” the barrister replied.

“I went to see her that afternoon and I was in the room when she was speaking to someone from the leader’s office.”

The MSM has made much of this incident and its fallout, which includes a formal complaint of anti-Semitism lodged against Corbyn by Jewish Human Rights Watch.

But few outlets have covered the fact that, according to Chakrabarti, Labour has accepted all recommendations to tackle anti-Semitism made by the report with qualification or complaint.

https://www.rt.com/uk/349163-corbyn-antisemitism-isis-israel/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 06, 2016, 11:00:10 PM
Of course they were

Having sat through Chilcots statement today and then seen how various people tried to spin it, Including the Bliar himself,  doing his side step dance, was utterly disgusted

You really just cannot take much at face value off the TV or the papers


What a sad sorry little bunch many of them are

Good thing is you learn who the eagles are and who the snakes are and that cant be bad


Corbyn, Short, Cook, and the other courageous souls, the dead soldiers families all been vndicated
Blair, Straw, Bush, Murdoch, and the rest of the motley shitty crew exposed for what theyre made of
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 07, 2016, 11:56:45 PM
Good for corbyn, he beat the bullies, and the rabid media,hes still leader


 8((()*/


many are frothing at the mouth..good!
Even today, after realising what a scumbag self important blair was and how he gambled with peoples lives with lies with the iraq war, his pathetic vacuous cronies still support that catastrophic for millions and the whole region decision, fkn numpties and they DID have loyalty to blair as their puppet master thats why they all stabbed corbyn in the back

lets have a good looking charismatic leader who ends up becoming a cult figure and let the world go to hell hey? Majestic



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 08, 2016, 11:43:59 AM
Many of his proposed policies have public support, so either the UK people are loony lefties or is he more in touch than those who criticise him;

Re-nationlisation of the railways; 60% agree.

75% top rate of tax on incomes over £1 million; 56% agree.

Formation of an international convention on banning nuclear weapons; 64% agree

Control of the levels of private housing rentals; 59% agree.

A mandatory living wage; 60% agree.

Scrapping University tuition fees and reinstating grants; the question hasn't been asked recently but is likely to have public support.

Opposition to the Iraq War; 43% agreed [37% supported it]

Opposition to bombing Syria; 60% agreed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news-14-5/the-jeremy-corbyn-policies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 08, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Many of his proposed policies have public support, so either the UK people are loony lefties or is he more in touch than those who criticise him;

Re-nationlisation of the railways; 60% agree.

75% top rate of tax on incomes over £1 million; 56% agree.

Formation of an international convention on banning nuclear weapons; 64% agree

Control of the levels of private housing rentals; 59% agree.

A mandatory living wage; 60% agree.

Scrapping University tuition fees and reinstating grants; the question hasn't been asked recently but is likely to have public support.

Opposition to the Iraq War; 43% agreed [37% supported it]

Opposition to bombing Syria; 60% agreed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news-14-5/the-jeremy-corbyn-policies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html
Great.  Should be a breeze for him to win the next election then.  75% of the Parliamentary Labour Party must be off their rockers too, if they can't see how eminently electable and engaged with the electorate is our Jezza!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 08, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Great.  Should be a breeze for him to win the next election then.  75% of the Parliamentary Labour Party must be off their rockers too, if they can't see how eminently electable and engaged with the electorate is our Jezza!

The PLP are spoiled brats who thought refusing to play would get them their own way. Their bluff has been called and now they can't play. At the moment they face some stark choices; challenge Corbyn's leadership and perhaps lose. Stamp off and start a new party and perhaps sink into oblivion. Getting Blair to publicly support them was a bad move with hindsight. For him to oppose Corbyn has turned out to be a good thing; who wants his support?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 08, 2016, 08:30:47 PM
The PLP are spoiled brats who thought refusing to play would get them their own way. Their bluff has been called and now they can't play. At the moment they face some stark choices; challenge Corbyn's leadership and perhaps lose. Stamp off and start a new party and perhaps sink into oblivion. Getting Blair to publicly support them was a bad move with hindsight. For him to oppose Corbyn has turned out to be a good thing; who wants his support?
I don't think caring about the future electability of your party is selfish, the selfish idiot is Corbyn who by refusing to go has damned his party to years in the wilderness.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 08, 2016, 09:16:03 PM
I don't think caring about the future electability of your party is selfish, the selfish idiot is Corbyn who by refusing to go has damned his party to years in the wilderness.

Do try to keep up;

Jeremy Corbyn Attracts 'Huge Surge' In 100,000 New Labour Party Members
Huffington Post UK‎ - 1 day ago
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 08, 2016, 09:18:11 PM
Do try to keep up;

Jeremy Corbyn Attracts 'Huge Surge' In 100,000 New Labour Party Members
Huffington Post UK‎ - 1 day ago
And your point is?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 09, 2016, 12:58:43 AM
And your point is?
That labour party supports corbyn and you totally wrong, tough shit isnt it deal with it

All the knifing backstabbers have LOST and thank god for that, the piles of shit will be flushed, goodo


 8((()*/

Have a lovely evening hating caring politicians and supportng cruel ones


 8((()*/

Tara

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2016, 07:24:58 AM
And your point is?

People are not joining the Party to support Eagle and the other rebels in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 09, 2016, 08:24:44 AM
People are not joining the Party to support Eagle and the other rebels in my opinion.
There has been a drive by those opposed to Corbyn to encourage new members to vote him out, approx 50% of new members polled refused to say that they had joined to support him.  But even if 100% supported him, it doesn't mean he will breeze to victory at the next GE.  If Corbyn really was so incredibly popular with the electorate why are the majority of his MPs so keen for him to go?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2016, 10:08:53 AM
There has been a drive by those opposed to Corbyn to encourage new members to vote him out, approx 50% of new members polled refused to say that they had joined to support him.  But even if 100% supported him, it doesn't mean he will breeze to victory at the next GE.  If Corbyn really was so incredibly popular with the electorate why are the majority of his MPs so keen for him to go?

The answer lies in the leadership Election. Three candidates acceptable to the PLP were rejected. The PLP still hasn't taken that on board. They are determined to impose their views on the membership. Corbyn listens to the member's views.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 09, 2016, 11:30:58 AM
The answer lies in the leadership Election. Three candidates acceptable to the PLP were rejected. The PLP still hasn't taken that on board. They are determined to impose their views on the membership. Corbyn listens to the member's views.
All MPs care about is their party getting into power.  If they truly believed Jeremy was capable of leading them to a GE victory he would have their full support.  The fact that they don't have his support is because they know he is a dead duck as far as the electorate is concerned.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2016, 12:30:06 PM
All MPs care about is their party getting into power.  If they truly believed Jeremy was capable of leading them to a GE victory he would have their full support.  The fact that they don't have his support is because they know he is a dead duck as far as the electorate is concerned.

You keep repeating your opinions as facts. Not all MP's have that as their sole concern. Some are interested in representing and helping their constituents first and foremost. Good work can be done out of power as well as in power. You are taking the values of some and painting all MP's with the same brush. Valued MP's can make a difference when their party is in opposition too;

http://www.frankfield.com/campaigns/poverty-and-life-changes.aspx
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 09, 2016, 02:03:20 PM
You keep repeating your opinions as facts. Not all MP's have that as their sole concern. Some are interested in representing and helping their constituents first and foremost. Good work can be done out of power as well as in power. You are taking the values of some and painting all MP's with the same brush. Valued MP's can make a difference when their party is in opposition too;

http://www.frankfield.com/campaigns/poverty-and-life-changes.aspx
Firstly, everything I write is my opinion, got that?  Just so as I don't have to write IMO every single post. 

Secondly, If the PLP is content simply to remain in opposition, with its MPs unable to effect any serious policy change  then of course it should be content to get behind Jeremy and let the Tories run rough shod over the country until he resigns, retires or kicks the bucket, whichever comes first.  Is that what you think they should do?  Simply shut up and put up with Jeremy whilst believing fervently that he will never lead their country to a GE victory?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 09, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Firstly, everything I write is my opinion, got that?  Just so as I don't have to write IMO every single post. 

Secondly, If the PLP is content simply to remain in opposition, with its MPs unable to effect any serious policy change  then of course it should be content to get behind Jeremy and let the Tories run rough shod over the country until he resigns, retires or kicks the bucket, whichever comes first.  Is that what you think they should do?  Simply shut up and put up with Jeremy whilst believing fervently that he will never lead their country to a GE victory?

What a lot of assumptions!

1. That the PLP believe JC can't win an election.
Maybe they're afraid he will!

2. That a party in opposition can't affect policy.
Farage managed it from outside Parliament!

3. That the Tories will run roughshod over the country.
Corbyn offers the clearest alternative, unlike the PLP before who seemed very similar to the Tories.

Finally, they are rejecting democracy which put them where they are. If they expect the electorate to shut up and accept election results so should they.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2016, 11:29:53 AM
Andrew Neal just asked Eagle what if she loses to Corbyn? Her answer was that you have to accept the democratic process. But she's challenging because she hasn't accepted the previous democratic process.

Completely illogical!!!!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 10, 2016, 09:24:41 PM
What a lot of assumptions!

1. That the PLP believe JC can't win an election.
Maybe they're afraid he will!

2. That a party in opposition can't affect policy.
Farage managed it from outside Parliament!

3. That the Tories will run roughshod over the country.
Corbyn offers the clearest alternative, unlike the PLP before who seemed very similar to the Tories.

Finally, they are rejecting democracy which put them where they are. If they expect the electorate to shut up and accept election results so should they.
Why on earth would labour MPs be afraid that labour might win at the next general election?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 10, 2016, 09:27:26 PM
Andrew Neal just asked Eagle what if she loses to Corbyn? Her answer was that you have to accept the democratic process. But she's challenging because she hasn't accepted the previous democratic process.

Completely illogical!!!!!
Do you believe that leadership challenges are undemocratic?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2016, 09:51:09 PM
Why on earth would labour MPs be afraid that labour might win at the next general election?

Afraid thet they would win with Corbyn as Leader. The poor things might have to enact some socialist policies. Difficult for closet Tories.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 10, 2016, 10:36:54 PM
Afraid thet they would win with Corbyn as Leader. The poor things might have to enact some socialist policies. Difficult for closet Tories.  @)(++(*
What utter rubbish.    In what way do you think Angela Eagle is ideologically similar to Andrea Leadsom?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 08:13:36 AM
What utter rubbish.    In what way do you think Angela Eagle is ideologically similar to Andrea Leadsom?

I judge by actions, not words.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 10:12:41 AM
I judge by actions, not words.
That's not true though is it?  As we have seen time and again by your judgements on other matters, based on what people have said or written.  If you think Angela Eagle is a closet Tory, perhaps you could point to those actions of hers (eg her voting record) which lead you to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
That's not true though is it?  As we have seen time and again by your judgements on other matters, based on what people have said or written.  If you think Angela Eagle is a closet Tory, perhaps you could point to those actions of hers (eg her voting record) which lead you to that conclusion.

I'm just giving my opinion like others do. Why should I provide cites? No-one else bothers.

Animal Farm:
“… and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 12:11:22 PM
I'm just giving my opinion like others do. Why should I provide cites? No-one else bothers.

Animal Farm:
“… and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
So, you can give no sensible or logical reason why Labour MPs would be afraid that their OWN party would win a general election, it's just your own (rather illogical) opinion.  OK, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 02:35:20 PM
By launching this mess in the aftermath of a very important referendum Labour MP's have shown their complete lack of judgement and timing. The Remain vote was not dependent on Labour voters; only the Tory voters could have kept the UK in the EU;
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/dont-blame-jeremy-corbyn-polls-show-only-tory-voters-could-have-kept-us-eu

While their Leader travelled the country gathering votes for Remain they were busy plotting to overthrow him. On what grounds? A majority of Labour voters did vote for Remain, so it wasn't that.

If they had united behind their Leader they were in a very good position with the Tories in disarray. They threw that chance away.

Should 172 Members of Parliament be allowed to overturn a democratic vote by 251,417 Party members?

 As she is now likely to face a vote of no confidence from her constituency how can Angela Eagle stand as a leadership candidate? She could face deselection shortly.



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 03:43:34 PM
By launching this mess in the aftermath of a very important referendum Labour MP's have shown their complete lack of judgement and timing. The Remain vote was not dependent on Labour voters; only the Tory voters could have kept the UK in the EU;
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/dont-blame-jeremy-corbyn-polls-show-only-tory-voters-could-have-kept-us-eu

While their Leader travelled the country gathering votes for Remain they were busy plotting to overthrow him. On what grounds? A majority of Labour voters did vote for Remain, so it wasn't that.

If they had united behind their Leader they were in a very good position with the Tories in disarray. They threw that chance away.

Should 172 Members of Parliament be allowed to overturn a democratic vote by 251,417 Party members?

 As she is now likely to face a vote of no confidence from her constituency how can Angela Eagle stand as a leadership candidate? She could face deselection shortly.
They should be allowed to hold a vote of no confidence in their leader and mount a leadership challenge shouldn't they?  Or is that undemocratic in your view?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 04:27:37 PM
They should be allowed to hold a vote of no confidence in their leader and mount a leadership challenge shouldn't they?  Or is that undemocratic in your view?

Votes of no confidence are a feature of the UK system of government and are usually aimed at the presiding government by the House of Commons. If the vote succeeds a General Election is called. The government then has a new mandate from the people or a new government is elected.

It's a new departure as far as I can discover to have such a vote in order to dislodge a Party Leader.

If MP's are unhappy with the Leader of their Party the usual response is to mount a challenge.

It would seem that the MP's took this step purely because they were unsure of winning a Leadership Election. The hope was to force a resignation.

The democratic route was to mount a leadership challenge and have a fair fight. These MP's acted as they did because they hoped to avoid that. Now the sole candidate at the moment is on very shaky ground as she is facing her own problems. She could win the vote and then be deselected as an MP. P**s ups and Breweries come to mind.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 04:59:02 PM
Votes of no confidence are a feature of the UK system of government and are usually aimed at the presiding government by the House of Commons. If the vote succeeds a General Election is called. The government then has a new mandate from the people or a new government is elected.

It's a new departure as far as I can discover to have such a vote in order to dislodge a Party Leader.

If MP's are unhappy with the Leader of their Party the usual response is to mount a challenge.

It would seem that the MP's took this step purely because they were unsure of winning a Leadership Election. The hope was to force a resignation.

The democratic route was to mount a leadership challenge and have a fair fight. These MP's acted as they did because they hoped to avoid that. Now the sole candidate at the moment is on very shaky ground as she is facing her own problems. She could win the vote and then be deselected as an MP. P**s ups and Breweries come to mind.
The party will be destroyed as I predicted it would be when Corbyn was elected many months ago.  It's very sad indeed.  He will have to go when Labour flops at the next GE of course, but what a waste of time it will all have been.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 05:21:09 PM
The party will be destroyed as I predicted it would be when Corbyn was elected many months ago.  It's very sad indeed.  He will have to go when Labour flops at the next GE of course, but what a waste of time it will all have been.

On the other hand other rebel MP's could face discipline or deselection by their constituencies, real Labour MP's could be elected and there could be a Labour landslide for better reasons than last time. What is clear is that predictions have a habit of being wrong these days.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
On the other hand other rebel MP's could face discipline or deselection by their constituencies, real Labour MP's could be elected and there could be a Labour landslide for better reasons than last time. What is clear is that predictions have a habit of being wrong these days.
Firstly, what is a "real" Labour MP?  Someone who agrees with Jeremy as leader?  Meaning anyone who doesn't agree with him as leader isn't really a Labour MP? 
Secondly, is it democratic that any MP who mounts a leadership challenge faces the prospect of de-selection thanks to the recently drafted in £3 members who have rallied to support an anti-establishment hero, individuals who may never have actually voted Labour before in their lives, and who had little interest in the party until Jeremy decided to stand as leader?  How exactly is it democratic that an MP, elected as part of the democratic process by their constituents faces being booted out a job for daring to challenge Chairman Corbyn?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 11, 2016, 06:25:06 PM
Firstly, what is a "real" Labour MP?  Someone who agrees with Jeremy as leader?  Meaning anyone who doesn't agree with him as leader isn't really a Labour MP? 
Secondly, is it democratic that any MP who mounts a leadership challenge faces the prospect of de-selection thanks to the recently drafted in £3 members who have rallied to support an anti-establishment hero, individuals who may never have actually voted Labour before in their lives, and who had little interest in the party until Jeremy decided to stand as leader?  How exactly is it democratic that an MP, elected as part of the democratic process by their constituents faces being booted out a job for daring to challenge Chairman Corbyn?

I don't see those who subscribe to'New Labour' as real Labourites. I don't think new £3 members would have much power in Constituency Parties as yet, and it is they who decide to deselect.

Now we come to what is probably an undemocratic bit, but it's common to all Parties. The Electorate can only vote for candidates chosen by the Party. When you vote you are voting for people who have been 'selected'. I suppose it depends whether people are voting for the Party or the candidate.

However, those who select can also deselect. If they act contrary to the rules though, they can also be disciplined.

When the Coventry South East Constituency Party refused to abandon it's MP after his expulsion from the Party the National Executive suspended the Constituency Party.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 07:24:05 PM
I don't see those who subscribe to'New Labour' as real Labourites. I don't think new £3 members would have much power in Constituency Parties as yet, and it is they who decide to deselect.

Now we come to what is probably an undemocratic bit, but it's common to all Parties. The Electorate can only vote for candidates chosen by the Party. When you vote you are voting for people who have been 'selected'. I suppose it depends whether people are voting for the Party or the candidate.

However, those who select can also deselect. If they act contrary to the rules though, they can also be disciplined.

When the Coventry South East Constituency Party refused to abandon it's MP after his expulsion from the Party the National Executive suspended the Constituency Party.
So Chairman Corbyn can squash any challenge to his leadership.  How very democratic.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on July 11, 2016, 08:10:28 PM
The fluorescent-pink celebrity makeover didn't work...

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/11/14/3628BA3300000578-3684188-image-a-54_1468242664610.jpg)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684188/The-Eagle-FINALLY-landed-Angela-Eagle-launches-desperate-bid-topple-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-branded-Empire-Strikes-candidate-allies.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684188/The-Eagle-FINALLY-landed-Angela-Eagle-launches-desperate-bid-topple-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-branded-Empire-Strikes-candidate-allies.html)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 14, 2016, 12:33:02 AM
The fluorescent-pink celebrity makeover didn't work...

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/11/14/3628BA3300000578-3684188-image-a-54_1468242664610.jpg)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684188/The-Eagle-FINALLY-landed-Angela-Eagle-launches-desperate-bid-topple-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-branded-Empire-Strikes-candidate-allies.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684188/The-Eagle-FINALLY-landed-Angela-Eagle-launches-desperate-bid-topple-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-branded-Empire-Strikes-candidate-allies.html)

People know what corbyns about, mostly, though in the end he will be the last one laughing,but shes a dark horse
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on July 14, 2016, 12:47:19 AM
People know what corbyns about, mostly, though in the end he will be the last one laughing,but shes a dark horse

Hmm. It might be a bit more reassuring if Corbyn brushed his snaggly teeth and put a bloody tie on!!

Nighty night, sugarplum!!  xx
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 14, 2016, 12:55:06 AM
Hmm. It might be a bit more reassuring if Corbyn brushed his snaggly teeth and put a bloody tie on!!

Nighty night, sugarplum!!  xx

Rolf  I never looked at his teeth to see if they were brushed or not, ewww

Well, its boring, but I dont judge by attire but substance, hes doing something he obviously believes in for the party, cant fault that

Nite x


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2016, 09:37:41 AM
What a superficial lot we are now. If you haven't got a tie on and gleaming whitened straightened teeth you can't lead a political party!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 14, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
What a superficial lot we are now. If you haven't got a tie on and gleaming whitened straightened teeth you can't lead a political party!
Of course you can, but don't expect to win an election looking like a tramp - just look at Michael Foot for instance.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 14, 2016, 06:32:30 PM
"As of today you either understand that Corbyn is the most disastrous Labour leader of all time, or you are already a plot-holder on Bonkers Island. His net negative poll rating of minus 41 is a record-breaker for a leader of the opposition. In all those millions of houses and flats that the inconvenient masses inhabit, the talk is not of how much they look forward to a Corbyn government — and it never will be.

And yet the organisation is said to be awash with keeno joiners who are in it for Jeremy. Labour, it seems, has more excited new members than a YMCA pool party. Yet which party is in government and ahead in the polls? Why, the one with a third of the members of the party that is 8 per cent behind" - David Aronovitch in today's Times.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2016, 09:39:15 PM
"As of today you either understand that Corbyn is the most disastrous Labour leader of all time, or you are already a plot-holder on Bonkers Island. His net negative poll rating of minus 41 is a record-breaker for a leader of the opposition. In all those millions of houses and flats that the inconvenient masses inhabit, the talk is not of how much they look forward to a Corbyn government — and it never will be.

And yet the organisation is said to be awash with keeno joiners who are in it for Jeremy. Labour, it seems, has more excited new members than a YMCA pool party. Yet which party is in government and ahead in the polls? Why, the one with a third of the members of the party that is 8 per cent behind" - David Aronovitch in today's Times.  @)(++(*

Did you mean David Aaronovitch the staunch Blairite?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 14, 2016, 10:08:56 PM
Did you mean David Aaronovitch the staunch Blairite?
Yup, he's a journo and he writes a column for the Times.  Say what you like about Blair, he did at least manage to get re-elected 3 times, something which is certainly beyond Corbyn's wildest dreams.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2016, 06:32:27 AM
Yup, he's a journo and he writes a column for the Times.  Say what you like about Blair, he did at least manage to get re-elected 3 times, something which is certainly beyond Corbyn's wildest dreams.

Perhaps he too will sell his soul to Murdoch.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 15, 2016, 08:15:25 AM
Perhaps he too will sell his soul to Murdoch.
I beg your pardon? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2016, 10:20:04 AM
I beg your pardon?

Blair and Cameron allegedly got elected with  Murdoch's help. Even Brexit had The Sun on it's side.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 15, 2016, 11:30:14 AM
Blair and Cameron allegedly got elected with  Murdoch's help. Even Brexit had The Sun on it's side.
Tell me more about the soul selling.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 15, 2016, 12:12:11 PM
Tell me more about the soul selling.

Anyone who cozies up to Murdoch is endangering their integrity imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 15, 2016, 01:46:28 PM
Anyone who cozies up to Murdoch is endangering their integrity imo.
All the while Jeremy remains a man of "integrity" and continues to stonewall the media then he really isn't doing his prospects very much good at all.  Of course some seem to think winning an election really isn't what it's all about but I beg to differ. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 16, 2016, 06:42:58 PM
"If Corbyn wins the forthcoming leadership election, there is a real possibility that the party could split, or cease to function in any meaningful way. This outcome should be treated as a catastrophe by everyone on the left. Under FPTP, a Labour split would in effect mean the end of any left or centre left presence in Parliament, at the same time as all protection from the European legal system and convention on human rights dissolves. Without the institutional support of Labour as a political party, with at least the potential for direct access to state power, the only thing protecting the poor, the vulnerable, the unemployed, migrants and refugees will be their own actions, in concordance with those of already-existing activist groups unevenly distributed across the country. The idea that such groups — under-resourced, voluntarist, impermanent, fragile — are in any position to provide a defence against the combined forces of the state, a triumphant Tory right, UKIP and the far right is hubris of the most dangerous kind. To acknowledge that is not to pretend that Labour governments and councils have not contributed to the oppression of those people. But it is to reject the trite, ahistorical conclusion that there is absolutely no difference between a hard-right Conservative government and a centre-left Labour administration, particularly in a post-EU/ECHR context".

https://medium.com/@matatatatat/the-terrifying-hubris-of-corbynism-6590054a9b57#.u9mjqgh6j
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 16, 2016, 08:54:00 PM
corbyn can be said to be tryng to save the labour party, thnk about it

As for that article, the writer doesnt know the meaning of the word hubris, poor, very poor
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2016, 07:48:14 AM
corbyn can be said to be tryng to save the labour party, thnk about it

As for that article, the writer doesnt know the meaning of the word hubris, poor, very poor

He doesn't realise he's showing his own hubris very clearly.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 10:29:12 AM
He doesn't realise he's showing his own hubris very clearly.  @)(++(*
It seems the only arguments you and Mercury can muster is to try and denounce the authors of the quotes I have posted without any attempt whatsoever to argue why what they have said is incorrect.  I expected better of you (though not Mercury ob).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2016, 11:12:47 AM
It seems the only arguments you and Mercury can muster is to try and denounce the authors of the quotes I have posted without any attempt whatsoever to argue why what they have said is incorrect.  I expected better of you (though not Mercury ob).

Thank you for the back-handed compliment. I think both mercury and I found the article full of opinion and humbug, so not really worth the argument.

He calls himself a marxist but fails to acknowledge that something different has happened. I've never seen ordinary people making their views known like this before. They appear to be rejecting all politicians, not just Labour ones. They don't think any of them represent their interests.

No wonder May has made a bid for the centre ground, but will they believe her? I suspect not. If, as he acknowledges, Labour had refrained from attacking it's own people it might have survived, but it didn't. It's problems are of it's own making, not Corbyn's. What he doesn't address is how Centrist Labour politicians can beat May, she is on their patch at the moment. They have to move significantly left to oppose her. The one occupying that ground is Corbyn.

At the moment they could oppose if they adopted his stance, but not otherwise. Are any of them prepared to do that? I doubt it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 12:32:34 PM
Thank you for the back-handed compliment. I think both mercury and I found the article full of opinion and humbug, so not really worth the argument.

He calls himself a marxist but fails to acknowledge that something different has happened. I've never seen ordinary people making their views known like this before. They appear to be rejecting all politicians, not just Labour ones. They don't think any of them represent their interests.

No wonder May has made a bid for the centre ground, but will they believe her? I suspect not. If, as he acknowledges, Labour had refrained from attacking it's own people it might have survived, but it didn't. It's problems are of it's own making, not Corbyn's. What he doesn't address is how Centrist Labour politicians can beat May, she is on their patch at the moment. They have to move significantly left to oppose her. The one occupying that ground is Corbyn.

At the moment they could oppose if they adopted his stance, but not otherwise. Are any of them prepared to do that? I doubt it.
Firstly, re: the bit in bold above, that is a nihilist, defeatist position to take  though I recognise that *some* people may very well hold that view, when push comes to shove, the majority of the electorate DO go out to vote, and use their vote to try and elect those candidates they feel best represent their views and wishes.   

The rebel  Labour MPs  who stood and who were elected to parliament at the last election did so when Ed Miliband was their leader, not Jeremy Corbyn, so it's no wonder that the latter's election to that position has caused many of those MPs such disquiet, as Jez is clearly intent on taking the party they represent in a direction that most of them do not wholeheartedly agree with, and in a manner which clearly many of them feel makes their own party unlikely to win an election anytime soon.   What are they reasonably supposed to do?  Just shut up and keep their fingers crossed that by some miracle the GBP will fall in love with Jeremy's presentation and policies before the next election?  Give us your guidance for these MPs.

PS: Did you read the whole article I linked to, or just the quote I posted?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2016, 01:12:20 PM
Firstly, re: the bit in bold above, that is a nihilist, defeatist position to take  though I recognise that *some* people may very well hold that view, when push comes to shove, the majority of the electorate DO go out to vote, and use their vote to try and elect those candidates they feel best represent their views and wishes.   

The rebel  Labour MPs  who stood and who were elected to parliament at the last election did so when Ed Miliband was their leader, not Jeremy Corbyn, so it's no wonder that the latter's election to that position has caused many of those MPs such disquiet, as Jez is clearly intent on taking the party they represent in a direction that most of them do not wholeheartedly agree with, and in a manner which clearly many of them feel makes their own party unlikely to win an election anytime soon.   What are they reasonably supposed to do?  Just shut up and keep their fingers crossed that by some miracle the GBP will fall in love with Jeremy's presentation and policies before the next election?  Give us your guidance for these MPs.

PS: Did you read the whole article I linked to, or just the quote I posted?

Only just;

Election Year   UK   England
2010   65.1%   65.5%
2005   61.4%   61.3%
2001   59.4%   59.2%
1997   71.4%   71.4%

Blair got a big turn-out, because he appeared to offer something new. Brexit beat him; 72.2%.

Labour leaders and MP's have failed to inspire since, as the voting percentages show.

It's all very well criticising Corbyn, but he has inspired people which the party wasn't doing.

I agree with the writer that proportional representation is the future, but the electorate rejected it.

Nevertheless in the last election 34% of the electorate didn't vote. Neither of our largest parties reached 34% in votes. The Tories are ruling with 24% of the electorate voting for them.
http://www.votenone.org.uk/uk-unheard-third.html

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on July 17, 2016, 01:33:34 PM
Andrew Neal just asked Eagle what if she loses to Corbyn? Her answer was that you have to accept the democratic process. But she's challenging because she hasn't accepted the previous democratic process.

Completely illogical!!!!!

Not really. Jeremy Corbyn has lost the support of his parliamentary group who have every right to ask for a new election.

The way I see it and going by the referendum result, Jez has great support in London but very little elsewhere and unfortunately for him it is the support elsewhere which will decide his fate.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 01:36:32 PM
Only just;

Election Year   UK   England
2010   65.1%   65.5%
2005   61.4%   61.3%
2001   59.4%   59.2%
1997   71.4%   71.4%

Blair got a big turn-out, because he appeared to offer something new. Brexit beat him; 72.2%.

Labour leaders and MP's have failed to inspire since, as the voting percentages show.

It's all very well criticising Corbyn, but he has inspired people which the party wasn't doing.

I agree with the writer that proportional representation is the future, but the electorate rejected it.

Nevertheless in the last election 34% of the electorate didn't vote. Neither of our largest parties reached 34% in votes. The Tories are ruling with 24% of the electorate voting for them.
http://www.votenone.org.uk/uk-unheard-third.html
Thanks for the statistics, however even the 2010 figures back up my statement that the majority of the election do go out and vote, unless you're going to somehow argue that 65% is not the majority?! 

Secondly, I noticed you swerved the opportunity to advise the 176 (or however many MPs it is) on how they should reasonably proceed, representing a party that is led by a leader who they believe does not on the whole represent their views nor who acquits himself as a particularly strong and inspiring leader of men and women.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on July 17, 2016, 01:48:32 PM
All the while Jeremy remains a man of "integrity" and continues to stonewall the media then he really isn't doing his prospects very much good at all.  Of course some seem to think winning an election really isn't what it's all about but I beg to differ.

We have seen this time and time again with the so-called men of honour, parliamentarians who cling to their jobs when even the least politically enthused are willing them to go.

Jeremy Corbyn has had his day in my opinion, he should do the right thing and stand down immediately.  He was never cut out to lead the Labour Party and most certainly could never have won any General Election.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 17, 2016, 02:37:16 PM
The man has faced an orchestrated negative campaign ever since he was elected leader. Every politician deserves a level playing field. Interesting comments too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 03:12:23 PM
The man has faced an orchestrated negative campaign ever since he was elected leader. Every politician deserves a level playing field. Interesting comments too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html
Bless him.  But what's new?  He was a fool to think that stonewalling the media was going to endear himself to them, it's just one example of how he's not made great decisions since becoming leader. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 03:23:56 PM
According to Jeremy's close ally Tariq Ali, and also to his own brother, Jeremy has always been virulently opposed to the EU and would have been campaigning to leave if he had still been on the backbenches.  So, how does that square with his being a supposedly "conviction politician"?  If he's been cleverer he would have outed himself as a Leaver at the start of the campaign.  He would now be in a much stronger position IMO.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 03:28:33 PM
“I went to ten boroughs. I went to 12 cities. I did 11 debates. I had to go up against Farage, Boris - all these people,” he said of his efforts in the campaign.

“He [Mr Corbyn] did nothing like that, nothing like that at all.

“When we had our planning meetings, when we had our Labour In planning meetings, we didn’t have anybody from the leader’s office turn up to any single planning meeting that we had for that national campaign.

“None of them turned up.”

Chuka Umunna.  Assuming Chuka is not telling bare-faced lies, what does this tell us about Jeremy and his leadership qualities?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 03:59:11 PM
"It sounds to me almost as if he’s decided he wants to destroy the Labour party and set up a new party which would be more like the Socialist Workers Party. That would be a disaster for this country. Because this country needs a centre socialist party. It needs that. It does not need a Socialist Workers Party.

"I’m not even convinced now he’s a nice chap. I have to say, in leadership terms, I’m afraid I don’t think Joe Average in this country would follow him as a leader even out of curiosity. That’s the problem.

"Everyone says what a nice chap he is, but if he doesn’t understand that, I’m beginning to feel that maybe he’s not quite such a nice chap. That there’s something rather more unpleasant lurking there." - Labour peer and former naval commander Lord West re: Jeremy Corbyn.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 17, 2016, 10:40:12 PM
Thangam Debbonaire (posted on facebook)
12 hrs ·
Dear everyone who has asked me what my problems are with Corbyn's leadership,
Here is my experience.
Mr Corbyn appointed me and press released this without my knowledge or consent whilst I was in the middle of cancer treatment. He then sacked me the next day when he realized he had given away part of someone else's role. But didn't bother to tell me that either. By then my office had been besieged by press and the story was out that I was Shadow Minister. I decided to make the best of it and to serve. I worked on his Arts policy whilst I was still having treatment but in Bristol..
When I went back to Westminster, I discovered that he had sacked me but hadn't told me and did not have any ideas for how I was supposed to explain it to Bristol West members or constituents. I was then faced with the choice of telling the truth - that he had made a series of errors, and inevitably thereby face a pile of criticism from his supporters - or say I had changed my mind about accepting the role - and thereby face a pile of criticism from.his supporters. And I knew the pile would arrive because I had seen how it went for others who had resigned. And because Corbyn supporters had already piled into me for disloyalty when I had had to miss votes for cancer treatment.
I then, contrary to the story he keeps giving on TV, found it near on impossible to get to talk to him about this problem
Eventually I did get to meet him and he had nothing to say. No idea what to do. It took my boss Maria Eagle to explain to him that as he was leader he could re appoint me if that was what he wanted.
I then worked hard for him on his Arts policy, loyally didn't go to the press about the above, got stuck in and worked. And yes, I enjoyed the role, it is one of my dream jobs in parliament and I believe I did Corbyn and the Labour Party a great service, as millions of people work in the arts and culture sectors and they valued being involved in policy-making. So it was never my intention to resign.
However, I kept hearing from other colleagues on the front bench just how difficult or impossible it was to get a decision out of him on important policy issues - the very thing Corbyn is supposed to be good on. I also noticed that the policy making process through the National Policy Forum was being slowed down by lack of decisions from Corbyn's office.
But then he was missing in action during the EU referendum, including going on a week's holiday three weeks before the day. I found that unforgivable. I had re-started campaigning in this campaign, phone-canvassing to conserve my energy, and kept hearing Labour voters saying 'but your leader wants out, doesn't he?' His team didn't send anyone to the EU Campaign meetings in Westminster and his lack of enthusiasm showed.
On the day after the referendum he asked for an early Brexit. My constituents want exactly the opposite and were telling me so in their hundreds, and voted 85% to remain.
That was the tipping point for me - it is not allowed to remain on the front bench whilst taking an opposing view to the leader in something so important.
I therefore had to resign.
The reason I then voted no confidence in him as leader is because I have no confidence in him as leader. See above. Plus I had found out from other front bench women how unwilling and unable Corbyn is to communicate with, listen to or work with anyone outside his narrow group.
Since then he has stated publicly that he isn't prioritizing winning elections. How can I support a Labour leader who doesn't want to form a Labour government above everything? When working people, the old, the young, the poor, the country, need a Labour government above everything?
I want a Labour government more than anything, because that is how we change the world and how we help millions of people, just as the 1997-2010 Labour government helped millions of people, my own family included.
I profoundly wished I never had to say all this publicly, but people keep asking, and I believe they have a right to know the truth about what Corbyn's leadership is like.
We cannot win general elections with a leader who is unable and unwilling to learn how to communicate with, listen to and persuade people with whom he doesn't already agree - we need to convince swing voters who voted Tory last year in Southern seats to vote Labour next time and we need Labour voters in Wales and the North to continue to vote Labour - without this we can't win a general election.
all that is what's at stake. Not having a Labour government again is unbearable. I will do anything I can to help to ensure this. It's the constitutional duty of all Labour MPs, especially the leader, to try to secure a better life for working class people through parliamentary means. And that's what I will continue to do.
I hope that's clear.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 17, 2016, 11:42:03 PM
JC will have the last laugh whilst all the jokers around him are havng perpetual apoplectic fits

Tough isnt it?



He is remaing true to what labour party actually means after blair and spawns destroyed it and showng up all the traitors and the ttitle tattlers, good job, what more can one ask for? And if he doesnt get elected as new Pm in 2020 who cares? Job will be done to teach westminster what they are actually there for

Meanwhile eagle can and wll take a runnng jump, theres no place for snakes

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 18, 2016, 10:17:57 AM
Only one person has retained their dignity in all this and that's Corbyn. He hasn't publicly criticised any of his MP's as far as I know. He hasn't resorted to whingeing on Facebook. He hasn't ignored the wishes of the Party members or of constituency members.

The MP's seem to have been phased by his leadership style; collegiate and less confrontational, but he stated his intention at the beginning.

Liz Kendall identified the problem clearly after losing the Leadership contest;

No one has a monopoly on being led by their conscience. But modernisers must be honest with ourselves: many people who’ve joined our party in recent months do not believe we are offering change and some of them doubt our principles altogether. This is partly because too often in the past we’ve come across as technocratic and managerial.

“We’ve allowed ourselves to be defined as purely pragmatic – concerned with winning elections alone, rather than winning for a purpose – thereby ceding the mantle of principle to the far left.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-confident-labour-will-unite-around-him-if-he-wins

Rather than absorbing Kendall's [true] opinion, the MP's proceeded to prove her right. They have demonstrated yet again their lack of principles and their focus on winning elections at all costs.

Corbyn's critics outside the Party also concentrate on his perceived inability to win a general election. Well, no-one expected him to win the leadership election so who knows?



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 12:39:00 PM
Only one person has retained their dignity in all this and that's Corbyn. He hasn't publicly criticised any of his MP's as far as I know. He hasn't resorted to whingeing on Facebook. He hasn't ignored the wishes of the Party members or of constituency members.

The MP's seem to have been phased by his leadership style; collegiate and less confrontational, but he stated his intention at the beginning.

Liz Kendall identified the problem clearly after losing the Leadership contest;

No one has a monopoly on being led by their conscience. But modernisers must be honest with ourselves: many people who’ve joined our party in recent months do not believe we are offering change and some of them doubt our principles altogether. This is partly because too often in the past we’ve come across as technocratic and managerial.

“We’ve allowed ourselves to be defined as purely pragmatic – concerned with winning elections alone, rather than winning for a purpose – thereby ceding the mantle of principle to the far left.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/10/jeremy-corbyn-confident-labour-will-unite-around-him-if-he-wins

Rather than absorbing Kendall's [true] opinion, the MP's proceeded to prove her right. They have demonstrated yet again their lack of principles and their focus on winning elections at all costs.

Corbyn's critics outside the Party also concentrate on his perceived inability to win a general election. Well, no-one expected him to win the leadership election so who knows?
If there was a snap election next month, how would you rate Labour's chances of winning? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 18, 2016, 01:16:27 PM
If there was a snap election next month, how would you rate Labour's chances of winning?

That's right. Reduce a very complicated set of circumstances to a simplistic question. After all, winning at all costs is what politics is all about, isn't it?

Or is it? Maybe 172 MP's think so, but many Party members seem to disagree. Of course they have seen winning at all costs in action with Blair. He won but was he Labour? Some would say not, and that was the cost.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 01:54:35 PM
That's right. Reduce a very complicated set of circumstances to a simplistic question. After all, winning at all costs is what politics is all about, isn't it?

Or is it? Maybe 172 MP's think so, but many Party members seem to disagree. Of course they have seen winning at all costs in action with Blair. He won but was he Labour? Some would say not, and that was the cost.
If winning general elections wasn't what politics was all about there wouldn't be general elections. You and Corbyn and his followers are perfectly entitled to think they fulfil a useful function in society by politely challenging the opposition with questions in the House from Gail in Rotherham, but in my opinion the Opposition needs to be more effective than that.  It needs to have coherent policies, know what it stands for and have the majority of MPs supportive of those policies, be effectively and  robustly led by a leader who appeals to a wide cross-section of the electorate, who is able with his/her on-side colleagues to forcefully and intelligently challenge government decisions, with the ultimate goal of being in a position to put their own policies into practise ie: by being in Government.   

You may think it's perfectly acceptable for the Labour Party to simply become a socialist pressure group for various causes, but most people IMO don't see it that way. 

ETA: the fact that Blair had to take the Labour party to a more central position in order to win three terms should also give you a clue about the GBP's preferred politics - conservative with a small c, we've never been that keen on far-left politics at the end of the day....
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 18, 2016, 05:10:07 PM
The GBP, on the whole don't understand politics. I'm sure a lot of people on tax credits voted Conservative only to find themselves attacked. What a shock that must have been. Those who understand politics know where Conservative loyalties lie in the end. Theresa May mentioned the 'Unionist' part of her party's name, but it's origins have sweet FA to do with uniting the nation.

People should be educated about the subject. They should know who created the NHS, who cleared all the slum houses away, who helped NATO to be formed, who granted independence to Empire countries. All Labour achievements when the country, reeling from WWII, moved sharply to the left.

For the short-term short-sighted politics is about winning elections whatever the cost. For others politics is about a fair society where everyone has a decent life. Unfortunately the GBP never remember the lessons of the past. Thatcher has been forgotten with her attacks on the poor, so the turkeys voted for Christmas again and got Osborne.

Now people have had a glimpse of something different at a time when, under attack from the Conservative Party, they had no strong Labour Party to defend them. The result was a surge of support for Corbyn. The reaction was attacks on him and his supporters by those who had failed to appeal to the electorate in the 2015 election. Their arrogance and lack of understanding is staggering.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 06:20:54 PM
The GBP, on the whole don't understand politics. I'm sure a lot of people on tax credits voted Conservative only to find themselves attacked. What a shock that must have been. Those who understand politics know where Conservative loyalties lie in the end. Theresa May mentioned the 'Unionist' part of her party's name, but it's origins have sweet FA to do with uniting the nation.

People should be educated about the subject. They should know who created the NHS, who cleared all the slum houses away, who helped NATO to be formed, who granted independence to Empire countries. All Labour achievements when the country, reeling from WWII, moved sharply to the left.

For the short-term short-sighted politics is about winning elections whatever the cost. For others politics is about a fair society where everyone has a decent life. Unfortunately the GBP never remember the lessons of the past. Thatcher has been forgotten with her attacks on the poor, so the turkeys voted for Christmas again and got Osborne.

Now people have had a glimpse of something different at a time when, under attack from the Conservative Party, they had no strong Labour Party to defend them. The result was a surge of support for Corbyn. The reaction was attacks on him and his supporters by those who had failed to appeal to the electorate in the 2015 election. Their arrogance and lack of understanding is staggering.
You seem to be suggesting that the GBP is as thick as two short planks and more forgetful than goldfish.    &%+((£  Maybe it explains why the majority voted for Brexit....but I digress.... 8(0(*

I notice you bemoaning the lack of a strong Labour Party in the face of Tory attack, well isn't that what I have been saying all along?!  Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is currently as weakened and ineffectual as it's possible for a political party to be, and yet you and half a million other Corbynistas seem to think he's some sort of saviour.  It's astounding, but then there's nowt so queer as (some) folk.   

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
It's come to something when around a third of those who identify as Labour voters think that a Tory would make a better PM than the current Labour leader and less than half think he'd do a better job!  What does Jeremy have to do to show core Labour voters that he's got what it takes?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-comres-poll-labour-tories-prime-minister-who-would-be-better-voters-a7141171.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 18, 2016, 08:20:48 PM
You seem to be suggesting that the GBP is as thick as two short planks and more forgetful than goldfish.    &%+((£  Maybe it explains why the majority voted for Brexit....but I digress.... 8(0(*

I notice you bemoaning the lack of a strong Labour Party in the face of Tory attack, well isn't that what I have been saying all along?!  Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is currently as weakened and ineffectual as it's possible for a political party to be, and yet you and half a million other Corbynistas seem to think he's some sort of saviour.  It's astounding, but then there's nowt so queer as (some) folk.

People aren't thick, they vote based on experience and what the politicians and the media say. They have insufficient information, that's all.

It was Milliband's Labour PLP which was weak in the face of the attacks. The ones who have caused all the recent trouble. The ones who are now saying they know how to do it this time. Really?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 09:49:18 PM
People aren't thick, they vote based on experience and what the politicians and the media say. They have insufficient information, that's all.

It was Milliband's Labour PLP which was weak in the face of the attacks. The ones who have caused all the recent trouble. The ones who are now saying they know how to do it this time. Really?
If you assert that Labour was weak under Miliband (ancient history now, bearing in mind a week is a long time in politics), what do you think of its position now under Corbyn?  Stronger?   if Corbyn really is the best and only man for the job of leader, then I'm afraid IMO Labour is truly doomed.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 09:52:40 PM
A former labour spin doctor has just said on the Brexit debate programme on Channel 5 that if there was an election tomorrow she feels that Labour would be on course to lose as many as. 100 seats. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 19, 2016, 12:51:47 AM
You are a very short sighted man alfie
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2016, 06:42:26 AM
You are a very short sighted man alfie

Like a lot of the commentators Alfie thinks the sole purpose of a political party is to win elections no matter what it takes. The party working hardest in my area is the Green Party, who are principled people caring desperately for the environment and drawing attention to what we can all do. They won't win a general election but they do a lot of good. From being derided as tree huggers they've come a long way.

The 172 rebel MP's are centrist modernisers. The Conservatives are occupying their ground at the moment so they haven't a hope of defeating them. Corbyn seems to have inspired a lot of people and Labour should give his ideas a proper chance. Being popular with the media is no accolade in my opinion because the media supports the status quo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 08:05:05 AM
Like a lot of the commentators Alfie thinks the sole purpose of a political party is to win elections no matter what it takes. The party working hardest in my area is the Green Party, who are principled people caring desperately for the environment and drawing attention to what we can all do. They won't win a general election but they do a lot of good. From being derided as tree huggers they've come a long way.

The 172 rebel MP's are centrist modernisers. The Conservatives are occupying their ground at the moment so they haven't a hope of defeating them. Corbyn seems to have inspired a lot of people and Labour should give his ideas a proper chance. Being popular with the media is no accolade in my opinion because the media supports the status quo.
So you don't think the country needs a strong and united opposition to government?  Like I've said several times beffore, if you're content for the Labour Party to sink to the level of a pressure group like the Greens, relinquishing any opportunity to govern the country, then fine.  It's your position, but one which many particularly within the PLP would disagree with.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 09:18:59 AM
Why does a centre left Labour Party have no hope of beating a centre right Conservative Party?  With a charismatic leader, who enjoys a united front bench and support from the back bench, with coherent and well-communicated policies that appeal to the electorate, surely that is a better bet than a Jeremy Corbyn who fronts a party in complete disarray, who treats the media with contempt, who surrounds himself with intimidating thugs and bullies, a man who votes against his party's OWN policies as we saw last night on Trident.  How in God's name is that a preferable scenario?!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 19, 2016, 09:25:38 AM
Why does a centre left Labour Party have no hope of beating a centre right Conservative Party?  With a charismatic leader, who enjoys a united front bench and support from the back bench, with coherent and well-communicated policies that appeal to the electorate, surely that is a better bet than a Jeremy Corbyn who fronts a party in complete disarray, who treats the media with contempt, who surrounds himself with intimidating thugs and bullies, a man who votes against his party's OWN policies as we saw last night on Trident.  How in God's name is that a preferable scenario?!

I do chuckle at the way he deals with the press on his doorstep whilst they're firing questions at him...

 'goodmorning, how nice to see you, thankyou so much for coming, goodbye'

He doesn't play their game, & that's why I like him.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
I do chuckle at the way he deals with the press on his doorstep whilst they're firing questions at him...

 'goodmorning, how nice to see you, thankyou so much for coming, goodbye'

He doesn't play their game, & that's why I like him.

I've just seen the arch snake Hilary Benn on TV. He's supporting Angela Eagle but was completely unable to explain just what she has to offer. The latest poll puts JC well ahead of both of the challengers. What on earth happens if he wins again I don't know. Will MP's be deselected and new by-elections arranged? The Constituency Parties would have already deselected a few had they not been stopped. Whether the MP's like it or not the party members seem to prefer Corbyn.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 01:19:19 PM
I've just seen the arch snake Hilary Benn on TV. He's supporting Angela Eagle but was completely unable to explain just what she has to offer. The latest poll puts JC well ahead of both of the challengers. What on earth happens if he wins again I don't know. Will MP's be deselected and new by-elections arranged? The Constituency Parties would have already deselected a few had they not been stopped. Whether the MP's like it or not the party members seem to prefer Corbyn.
The end of the Labour Party as a serious force in politics, obviously. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2016, 01:32:18 PM
The end of the Labour Party as a serious force in politics, obviously.

It would be interesting to see what the Conservatives would do in that situation. Would they give full reign to their instincts or play nicely?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 02:27:29 PM
It would be interesting to see what the Conservatives would do in that situation. Would they give full reign to their instincts or play nicely?
Similarly it would be interesting to know what you would advocate Tory MPs should do if they found themselves with a far right leader whose views did not chime with the majority of his/her fellow Tory MPs but who found him/herself leader thanks to a change to the voting system which skewed things very much in favour of someone with extreme conservative views.  Just put up with it, I suppose!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 19, 2016, 04:58:39 PM
Similarly it would be interesting to know what you would advocate Tory MPs should do if they found themselves with a far right leader whose views did not chime with the majority of his/her fellow Tory MPs but who found him/herself leader thanks to a change to the voting system which skewed things very much in favour of someone with extreme conservative views.  Just put up with it, I suppose!

Not interested in the Tories, but;

It's all down to the first past the post system whereby career politicians shoehorn themselves into the two largest Parties because they want promotion. Blair ruthlessly hijacked the Labour Party and took it away from it's roots. He won elections but he wasn't Labour.

The people saw this and have joined in their thousands to vote for a Labour leader. If Smith or Eagle win those members will go again and the backstabbers will be left in the wilderness because who's going to vote for people who have rejected democracy?

The NEC is running scared because they know if they allow constituency meetings there will be deselections. They can't suspend the meetings forever though. The grassroots seem determined to have their say.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 05:42:24 PM
Not interested in the Tories, but;

It's all down to the first past the post system whereby career politicians shoehorn themselves into the two largest Parties because they want promotion. Blair ruthlessly hijacked the Labour Party and took it away from it's roots. He won elections but he wasn't Labour.

The people saw this and have joined in their thousands to vote for a Labour leader. If Smith or Eagle win those members will go again and the backstabbers will be left in the wilderness because who's going to vote for people who have rejected democracy?

The NEC is running scared because they know if they allow constituency meetings there will be deselections. They can't suspend the meetings forever though. The grassroots seem determined to have their say.
You don't need to be interested in the Tories to answer my question, but I understand if swerving it is easier.
Eagle has taken herself out of the equation so it is now Owen v Corbyn.  I have no doubt whatsoever that Corbyn will win and that, sadly, will be the end of that. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 19, 2016, 06:18:36 PM
For those of you who like to rubbish the rebel Labour MPs as self-interested, selfish opportunists, perhaps you should read the following speech by the ex shadow-transport minister Lilian Greenwood.  It tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn's competency to lead a team. 

"How would you feel if your boss undermined your work and when you complained he listened and then did nothing different?

 

How would you feel if you were part of a team and you knew that not only was your boss undermining you but that this was happening to other colleagues?"

http://www.liliangreenwood.co.uk/lilian_s_speech_to_nottingham_south_labour_party_members

Easy to dismiss it as a whinge, as I'm sure you will, but do try and put yourself in this woman's shoes if you possible can, then tell us why she is wrong about Jeremy.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 19, 2016, 08:19:41 PM
For those of you who like to rubbish the rebel Labour MPs as self-interested, selfish opportunists, perhaps you should read the following speech by the ex shadow-transport minister Lilian Greenwood.  It tells you everything you need to know about Corbyn's competency to lead a team. 

"How would you feel if your boss undermined your work and when you complained he listened and then did nothing different?

 

How would you feel if you were part of a team and you knew that not only was your boss undermining you but that this was happening to other colleagues?"

http://www.liliangreenwood.co.uk/lilian_s_speech_to_nottingham_south_labour_party_members

Easy to dismiss it as a whinge
, as I'm sure you will, but do try and put yourself in this woman's shoes if you possible can, then tell us why she is wrong about Jeremy.


"He undermined me & made me look weak & I was miserable & in despair & tired & emotional & ...... 8)><("

This is why women have no place in politics.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 20, 2016, 12:22:30 AM
The snakey eagle has departed thank god
Now smith thnks he can be leader


 *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 20, 2016, 12:23:59 AM
I do chuckle at the way he deals with the press on his doorstep whilst they're firing questions at him...

 'goodmorning, how nice to see you, thankyou so much for coming, goodbye'

He doesn't play their game, & that's why I like him.

Ditto he.  brill gives the third finger up without having to, clas act
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2016, 08:57:56 AM
According to the latest polls Corbyn will beat Smith easily. That's only to be expected because he was the member's choice and there's no evidence that they're dissatisfied with him.

The rebel MP's are trying to tell the party membership what to do. I think they'll find it works the other way round.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 20, 2016, 10:24:40 AM
The way I see it is the rebel MPs have two months to try and persuade the members to see sense and if they fail (which they almost certainly will) then it's curtains for the Labour Party.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 20, 2016, 10:51:29 AM
The way I see it is the rebel MPs have two months to try and persuade the members to see sense and if they fail (which they almost certainly will) then it's curtains for the Labour Party.

I also expect them to fail. If they were responding to discontent among the members that would be different, but they're not. You seem to think it makes sense to support a group of people who;

Lost a democratic leadership election.
Decided to start an internal war in their Party at a time when they should have been uniting to attack a vulnerable government.
When their attempts to force their leader to resign failed, launched an official challenge.
Expect those who didn't vote for them a year ago to change their minds. Why? Because [they say] Corbyn isn't a good leader.
I expect the membership would like to test Corbyn's leadership skills with a supportive team rather than a group who were set against him from the beginning.

Perhaps Labour will rise from this stronger; appealing to it's true support base instead of trying to beat the Conservatives on their own ground. It would be nice for voters to have a clear choice instead of two similar parties.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 20, 2016, 12:01:40 PM
I also expect them to fail. If they were responding to discontent among the members that would be different, but they're not. You seem to think it makes sense to support a group of people who;

Lost a democratic leadership election.
Decided to start an internal war in their Party at a time when they should have been uniting to attack a vulnerable government.
When their attempts to force their leader to resign failed, launched an official challenge.
Expect those who didn't vote for them a year ago to change their minds. Why? Because [they say] Corbyn isn't a good leader.
I expect the membership would like to test Corbyn's leadership skills with a supportive team rather than a group who were set against him from the beginning.

Perhaps Labour will rise from this stronger; appealing to it's true support base instead of trying to beat the Conservatives on their own ground. It would be nice for voters to have a clear choice instead of two similar parties.
If my boss was as useless as Jeremy Corbyn clearly is, then I would be looking for a new job.  Unfortunately it's not that simple for Labour MPs.  Their choices are

1) leaving politics altogether
2) joining a different political party one that does necessarily share their views
3) setting up a new political party of their own
4) speaking up about their issues with their boss, calling for a vote of no confidence in him and thereby forcing a leadership election. 
5) Saying and doing nothing, whilst enduring poor his leadership and his insistence of repeatedly voting against labour policy, and hoping for the best.

Which would you do? 

Democracy is all very well, I suppose you support the Turkish President too, seeing as how he was democratically elected and all, and despite the fact that he has all the makings of a radical Islamic despot.  Hitler too was democratically elected I believe.  (Yes Godwin's Law *clang*)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on July 20, 2016, 10:46:10 PM
Pathetic, weve not had nazis or islamists in the uk ever ruling, democracyhas pretty much worked as it should,poor,very poor
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2016, 10:20:56 AM
If my boss was as useless as Jeremy Corbyn clearly is, then I would be looking for a new job.  Unfortunately it's not that simple for Labour MPs.  Their choices are

1) leaving politics altogether
2) joining a different political party one that does necessarily share their views
3) setting up a new political party of their own
4) speaking up about their issues with their boss, calling for a vote of no confidence in him and thereby forcing a leadership election. 
5) Saying and doing nothing, whilst enduring poor his leadership and his insistence of repeatedly voting against labour policy, and hoping for the best.

Which would you do? 

Democracy is all very well, I suppose you support the Turkish President too, seeing as how he was democratically elected and all, and despite the fact that he has all the makings of a radical Islamic despot.  Hitler too was democratically elected I believe.  (Yes Godwin's Law *clang*)

The only ones saying Corbyn is useless are the middle-class career politicians who couldn't beat him
in a leadership election. Oh...and a biased media who don't reflect what people are thinking, they try to tell them what they should think, just like those patronising MP's.

Those who the Party was set up to represent; the working class, have flocked to join the Party. So have educated middle-class people of conscience. In 48 hours 183,000 people have paid £25 to vote. Did they do that to support a little-known challenger? I think not. Unions who turned their backs on New Labour have re-affiliated because of Corbyn.

We are seeing an unprecedented popular movement by people who see a chance to have their views represented for the first time in decades. Succeed or fail, it behoves all politicians to take note.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 21, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
The only ones saying Corbyn is useless are the middle-class career politicians who couldn't beat him
in a leadership election. Oh...and a biased media who don't reflect what people are thinking, they try to tell them what they should think, just like those patronising MP's.


Those who the Party was set up to represent; the working class, have flocked to join the Party. So have educated middle-class people of conscience. In 48 hours 183,000 people have paid £25 to vote. Did they do that to support a little-known challenger? I think not. Unions who turned their backs on New Labour have re-affiliated because of Corbyn.

We are seeing an unprecedented popular movement by people who see a chance to have their views represented for the first time in decades. Succeed or fail, it behoves all politicians to take note.


I noticed when the great leader raised genuine issues like food banks & zero hours contracts during PM Q's, Maggie May didn't give any answers, all she could do was 'joke' about his job security.

Corbyn is adressing real issues, whilst the career politicians on both sides are more interested in playing the same old shitty games for & with the media.

F*ck the lot of them, I hope he wins.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2016, 12:09:09 PM

I noticed when the great leader raised genuine issues like food banks & zero hours contracts during PM Q's, Maggie May didn't give any answers, all she could do was 'joke' about his job security.

Corbyn is adressing real issues, whilst the career politicians on both sides are more interested in playing the same old shitty games for & with the media.

F*ck the lot of them, I hope he wins.

She seems to have been studying the Thatcher model. What a shame she couldn't come up with a style of her own. Ignoring the real problems that people face in order to score points over a political rival did her no favours imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 21, 2016, 03:06:18 PM
The only ones saying Corbyn is useless are the middle-class career politicians who couldn't beat him
in a leadership election.
Oh...and a biased media who don't reflect what people are thinking, they try to tell them what they should think, just like those patronising MP's.

Those who the Party was set up to represent; the working class, have flocked to join the Party. So have educated middle-class people of conscience. In 48 hours 183,000 people have paid £25 to vote. Did they do that to support a little-known challenger? I think not. Unions who turned their backs on New Labour have re-affiliated because of Corbyn.

We are seeing an unprecedented popular movement by people who see a chance to have their views represented for the first time in decades. Succeed or fail, it behoves all politicians to take note.
There are 172 rebel Labour MPs - I don't recall them all putting themselves forward to lead the party.  Also, it is completely untrue to say the ONLY people saying he's useless are the MPs themselves and the media.  Every single one of my labour voting friends think he's useless too, we can't be the only people in the country tho think so!  But what you or I say is not important.  What is important is the result at the next GE and then we will see who is proven right (clue: it will be me  8(0(* )
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 21, 2016, 03:41:22 PM
There are 172 rebel Labour MPs - I don't recall them all putting themselves forward to lead the party.  Also, it is completely untrue to say the ONLY people saying he's useless are the MPs themselves and the media.  Every single one of my labour voting friends think he's useless too, we can't be the only people in the country tho think so!  But what you or I say is not important.  What is important is the result at the next GE and then we will see who is proven right (clue: it will be me  8(0(* )

All 3 of them.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2016, 04:28:07 PM
There are 172 rebel Labour MPs - I don't recall them all putting themselves forward to lead the party.  Also, it is completely untrue to say the ONLY people saying he's useless are the MPs themselves and the media.  Every single one of my labour voting friends think he's useless too, we can't be the only people in the country tho think so!  But what you or I say is not important.  What is important is the result at the next GE and then we will see who is proven right (clue: it will be me  8(0(* )

Well, if you and your friends think so it must be right.  @)(++(*

I take it you think Smith will lose the leadership election then?

As to a general election, watch out for UKIP is my prediction, especially if Brexit is fudged.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 21, 2016, 06:45:17 PM
Well, if you and your friends think so it must be right.  @)(++(*

I take it you think Smith will lose the leadership election then?

As to a general election, watch out for UKIP is my prediction, especially if Brexit is fudged.
1)  I mentioned my friends' views simply to point out that it is nonsense to suggest that ordinary Labour voters don't have a problem with Jeremy.  Many do, of course you don't have to believe me, and I don't expect you to, you doubt pretty much everything I write anyway.
2)I have already stated clearly on this thread that I expect Chairman Corbyn to win.  He can then form a shadow cabinet out of the dregs of his MPs and we will be blessed with the weakest opposition ever known.   Of course I'm sure as far as you're concerned that's no problem at all, as long as Jeremy's still able to earnestly ask his worthy questions from the front bench on behalf of Sally from Stoke, and Kevin from Canterbury. 
3) Yes, UKIP, exactly - they will move onto Labour territory thanks very much to Jeremy Corbyn wrecking the Labour Party.  Perhaps at the end of the day, this is why you are so apparently very fond of him?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on July 21, 2016, 07:05:41 PM
1)  I mentioned my friends' views simply to point out that it is nonsense to suggest that ordinary Labour voters don't have a problem with Jeremy.  Many do, of course you don't have to believe me, and I don't expect you to, you doubt pretty much everything I write anyway.
2)I have already stated clearly on this thread that I expect Chairman Corbyn to win.  He can then form a shadow cabinet out of the dregs of his MPs and we will be blessed with the weakest opposition ever known.   Of course I'm sure as far as you're concerned that's no problem at all, as long as Jeremy's still able to earnestly ask his worthy questions from the front bench on behalf of Sally from Stoke, and Kevin from Canterbury. 
3) Yes, UKIP, exactly - they will move onto Labour territory thanks very much to Jeremy Corbyn wrecking the Labour Party.  Perhaps at the end of the day, this is why you are so apparently very fond of him?

I suppose it depends whether your 'ordinary' Labour voters prefer the traditional party or the Blairite rehashed party.
Why 'Chairman'? Are you suggesting Corbyn is a communist? Cites?
If the present MP's don't unite behind their leader I expect deselections to follow once the Constituencies are allowed to meet again.
Corbyn hasn't wrecked the party, the rebels who wanted to overturn a democratic election are doing that.
I think the Tories, who are in charge of Brexit, have more to fear from UKIP than Labour. It was Tory voters who carried the Brexit vote.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 21, 2016, 07:36:50 PM
I suppose it depends whether your 'ordinary' Labour voters prefer the traditional party or the Blairite rehashed party.
Why 'Chairman'? Are you suggesting Corbyn is a communist? Cites?
If the present MP's don't unite behind their leader I expect deselections to follow once the Constituencies are allowed to meet again.
Corbyn hasn't wrecked the party, the rebels who wanted to overturn a democratic election are doing that.
I think the Tories, who are in charge of Brexit, have more to fear from UKIP than Labour. It was Tory voters who carried the Brexit vote.
1) Most of the friends I am referring to were children under Wilson, Callaghan and young adults when Blair started his first term as PM. I think only a fool would want a return to a Wilson or Callaghan style government but perhaps you meant more "traditional" than that?
2) You want a cite for my nickname "Chairman"?  That's a new one!  Corbyn may not be a Communist but he sure does favour them, he's a big supporter of Cuba's Castro and Venezuela's Chavez (RIP) is he not?  Isn't he a fan of Karl Marx?  Didn't his side-kick O'Donnell wave Mao's Little Red Book in the House of Commons on his first day in the job?  Perhaps I simply imagined it all...
3) Perhaps you should read this:
"The rise of Ukip was a key reason why Labour was unable to return to Downing Street in last year’s election. The root of Ukip’s appeal was misdiagnosed by Labour MPs, who refused to accept that it was as much about identity as economics – an abstract feeling that the EU, immigration and rapid social change threatened a cherished identity, community and set of values.

Ukip, which drew most of its votes from older, working-class and self-employed Britons, emerged from the 2015 general election as the main opposition in 120 seats, 44 of which have Labour MPs. Nationally, Ukip averaged nearly 13%. But in Labour’s traditionally safe northern heartlands this figure jumped to 19%"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/23/labour-traditional-voters-progressive-values-working-class-ukip
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on July 21, 2016, 11:01:40 PM
Anyone watch Jeremy give a completely evasive answer on immigration controls post-Brexit on Newsnight?  If anyone did and can explain what he was actually advocating please let us know.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 01, 2016, 11:14:11 PM
Liverpool Lime Street had to be closed as thousands turned out to hear Corbyn.

(http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article11692172.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/JS96096800.jpg)
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/jeremy-corbyn-rally-liverpool-tonight-11691781
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 01, 2016, 11:56:43 PM
Liverpool Lime Street had to be closed as thousands turned out to hear Corbyn.

(http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article11692172.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/JS96096800.jpg)
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/jeremy-corbyn-rally-liverpool-tonight-11691781

Where's Wally?  Oh I've just spotted him  8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 02, 2016, 12:01:49 AM
Where's Wally?  Oh I've just spotted him  8((()*/

LOL

Well, the Labour party proper has been screwed by Blair for years now, just a thatcher puppet more or less, (there is no such thng as centre) but corbyn is getting the rap for being a proper labour person, couldnt make it up

Its ok for people to say they dnt like the party or its policies, its not ok to lambast the first real labour leader for years, its not rocket science
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 02, 2016, 04:55:08 AM
Anyone watch Jeremy give a completely evasive answer on immigration controls post-Brexit on Newsnight?  If anyone did and can explain what he was actually advocating please let us know.

From around 1:40 for reference... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36863378 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36863378)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 02, 2016, 04:57:03 AM
LOL

Well, the Labour party proper has been screwed by Blair for years now, just a thatcher puppet more or less, (there is no such thng as centre) but corbyn is getting the rap for being a proper labour person, couldnt make it up

Its ok for people to say they dnt like the party or its policies, its not ok to lambast the first real labour leader for years, its not rocket science

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 02, 2016, 03:14:51 PM
LOL

Well, the Labour party proper has been screwed by Blair for years now, just a thatcher puppet more or less, (there is no such thng as centre) but corbyn is getting the rap for being a proper labour person, couldnt make it up

Its ok for people to say they dnt like the party or its policies, its not ok to lambast the first real labour leader for years, its not rocket science

If JC is still leader at the time of next GE it will be interesting to see if the numbers he attracts at his rallies translate to sufficient 'X's at the ballot box.  During recent times Lab has been at its most successful ie electable/winning elections when it has elected centrist modernisers like the late John Smith and Tony Blair.  JS and TB completed their degrees with one enduring marriage each.  JC dropped out of college and is on his third marriage.  JC strikes me as an overgrown student and idealist who doesn't live in the real world.  I would no more vote for him that I would John Redwood.  I don't do extremes.  I'm a JS, TB, Ken Clarke, Theresa May sort of person.  Yes JC's authentic and a 'conviction' politician but are the masses going to sign up to his brand of socialism?  I suspect not.

In any event I can't take men seriously who wear cream jackets and facial hair.  At least Martin Bell only has the cream jacket.    8(8-))

 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 02, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Liverpool Lime Street had to be closed as thousands turned out to hear Corbyn.

(http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article11692172.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/JS96096800.jpg)
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/jeremy-corbyn-rally-liverpool-tonight-11691781

A million plus turned up to hear/see Pope John Paul II in Liverpool in 1982.  Thousands turn up at Anfield every week for home games during the football season.  I wouldn't mind betting a Beatles reunion would attract more than the Pope and JC put together with the late Cilla Black not far behind, justifiably so imo.  Who wants to listen to elderly out of touch men with a penchant for white/cream coloured clothing?  This in itself indicates they are impractical and others are probably responsible for their washing?   8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 02, 2016, 04:51:44 PM

In any event I can't take men seriously who wear cream jackets and facial hair.  At least Martin Bell only has the cream jacket.    8(8-))

 8((()*/

Has he really?  You're "Doing a Bamber"...

http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/17300652/4301906.jpg (http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/17300652/4301906.jpg)

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000DotbZABrSU0/s/600/600/FROSTPL70705-023.jpg (http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000DotbZABrSU0/s/600/600/FROSTPL70705-023.jpg)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Myster on August 02, 2016, 04:54:14 PM
A million plus turned up to hear/see Pope John Paul II in Liverpool in 1982.  Thousands turn up at Anfield every week for home games during the football season.  I wouldn't mind betting a Beatles reunion would attract more than the Pope and JC put together with the late Cilla Black not far behind, justifiably so imo.  Who wants to listen to elderly out of touch men with a penchant for white/cream coloured clothing?  This in itself indicates they are impractical and others are probably responsible for their washing?   8((()*/

Beatles reunion!!!?... now that would be more miraculous than the Pope singing a duet with Mother Theresa (and Naughty Nun on Bass).

Not only Labour leader but rather dapper and at the cutting edge of fashion...

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/corbyn-347830.jpg (http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/corbyn-347830.jpg)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 02, 2016, 11:20:07 PM

There you go, all the various good reasons people like him
Kudos to him for still standing
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 02, 2016, 11:24:07 PM
If JC is still leader at the time of next GE it will be interesting to see if the numbers he attracts at his rallies translate to sufficient 'X's at the ballot box.  During recent times Lab has been at its most successful ie electable/winning elections when it has elected centrist modernisers like the late John Smith and Tony Blair.  JS and TB completed their degrees with one enduring marriage each.  JC dropped out of college and is on his third marriage.  JC strikes me as an overgrown student and idealist who doesn't live in the real world.  I would no more vote for him that I would John Redwood.  I don't do extremes.  I'm a JS, TB, Ken Clarke, Theresa May sort of person.  Yes JC's authentic and a 'conviction' politician but are the masses going to sign up to his brand of socialism?  I suspect not.

In any event I can't take men seriously who wear cream jackets and facial hair.  At least Martin Bell only has the cream jacket.    8(8-))

 8((()*/

Even if he doesntget elected as PM his little or big dagger will be there in opposition..no ones done it better than him

Im a bit cnfused though why you see a lasting "marriage" as a sign of anything apart from a couple deciding to stay married, as if me than ne makes one morally inferior, id argue the opposite, oh well
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 03, 2016, 08:26:37 AM
A million plus turned up to hear/see Pope John Paul II in Liverpool in 1982.  Thousands turn up at Anfield every week for home games during the football season.  I wouldn't mind betting a Beatles reunion would attract more than the Pope and JC put together with the late Cilla Black not far behind, justifiably so imo.  Who wants to listen to elderly out of touch men with a penchant for white/cream coloured clothing?  This in itself indicates they are impractical and others are probably responsible for their washing?   8((()*/

Owen Smith got 300 people when he went to Liverpool, so it looks like Corbyn [who is a politician btw, not a religious leader, pop star or footballer] is well ahead. Ten thousand turning out in the rain wanted to hear what he had to say. I don't think they were there because of his dress sense, my guess is they're sick of the slick, well-tailored, soundbite spouting, completely out of touch career politicians.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 03, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Owen Smith got 300 people when he went to Liverpool, so it looks like Corbyn [who is a politician btw, not a religious leader, pop star or footballer] is well ahead. Ten thousand turning out in the rain wanted to hear what he had to say. I don't think they were there because of his dress sense, my guess is they're sick of the slick, well-tailored, soundbite spouting, completely out of touch career politicians.
15-20,000 turned out to see Michael Foot when he attended a rally in Hyde Park when party leader.  And your point is...?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 03, 2016, 01:20:18 PM
http://labourlist.org/2016/08/5000-corbyn-supporters-converge-on-city-centre-as-leader-takes-on-the-elite/

10,000...?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 03, 2016, 02:16:20 PM
From around 1:40 for reference... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36863378 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36863378)
To me he gave a completely typical politician's fudged answer.  What did you understand by it?  Where does he stand on the single market and/or free movement of people?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 03, 2016, 05:57:00 PM
Beatles reunion!!!?... now that would be more miraculous than the Pope singing a duet with Mother Theresa (and Naughty Nun on Bass).

Not only Labour leader but rather dapper and at the cutting edge of fashion...

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/corbyn-347830.jpg (http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/corbyn-347830.jpg)

Hypothetically speaking.

This is what I mean by him being a student in perpetuity. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 03, 2016, 06:00:00 PM
Has he really?  You're "Doing a Bamber"...

http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/17300652/4301906.jpg (http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/17300652/4301906.jpg)

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000DotbZABrSU0/s/600/600/FROSTPL70705-023.jpg (http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000DotbZABrSU0/s/600/600/FROSTPL70705-023.jpg)

I had forgotten it was a suit!  I bet it's grubby and stained close up  8)><( 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 03, 2016, 06:06:52 PM
Even if he doesntget elected as PM his little or big dagger will be there in opposition..no ones done it better than him

Im a bit cnfused though why you see a lasting "marriage" as a sign of anything apart from a couple deciding to stay married, as if me than ne makes one morally inferior, id argue the opposite, oh well

Yes I agree it's always good to have a strong opposition but I'm not sure JC can offer it.  Time will tell.  Early days.  New PM and JC is still relatively new.

I'm not suggesting those that have 3 or more marriages are morally inferior.  Just think dropping out of college AND 3 marriages might mean he's a bit fickle that's all.  It's just an observation. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 03, 2016, 06:24:04 PM
Owen Smith got 300 people when he went to Liverpool, so it looks like Corbyn [who is a politician btw, not a religious leader, pop star or footballer] is well ahead. Ten thousand turning out in the rain wanted to hear what he had to say. I don't think they were there because of his dress sense, my guess is they're sick of the slick, well-tailored, soundbite spouting, completely out of touch career politicians.

In all seriousness G-Unit what else is there to do in Liverpool on a wet Monday eve? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on August 03, 2016, 06:24:18 PM
Yes I agree it's always good to have a strong opposition but I'm not sure JC can offer it.  Time will tell.  Early days.  New PM and JC is still relatively new.

I'm not suggesting those that have 3 or more marriages are morally inferior.  Just think dropping out of college AND 3 marriages might mean he's a bit fickle that's all.  It's just an observation.

How on earth can anyone take Corby seriously now when there are as many scowling behind him in Parliament as are in front of him.  The man's an idiot if he thinks he will survive much longer imo.  Jeez how many MP's support him anyway these days?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 04, 2016, 12:08:49 AM
Yes I agree it's always good to have a strong opposition but I'm not sure JC can offer it.  Time will tell.  Early days.  New PM and JC is still relatively new.

I'm not suggesting those that have 3 or more marriages are morally inferior.  Just think dropping out of college AND 3 marriages might mean he's a bit fickle that's all.  It's just an observation.

It could also mean he is true to hmself when things dont work out

Yup, time will tell
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 04, 2016, 08:56:09 AM
How on earth can anyone take Corby seriously now when there are as many scowling behind him in Parliament as are in front of him.  The man's an idiot if he thinks he will survive much longer imo.  Jeez how many MP's support him anyway these days?

The point is that none of those scowling elected him [although 36 of them nominated him to enter the leadership contest in 2015]. The other three candidates had 168 nominations between them, with Andy Burham as the favourite with 68 nominations. He was praised at the time as a candidate who actually listened to party members.
Well, if he was listening it seems he was misinterpreting what he was hearing.

The party membership saw an opportunity to elect the kind of leader they wanted and they took it. Since then they have seen the reaction of the PLP and the 'establishment' [I include the media in that]. Will they accept that they were wrong, or will they see the reaction as proof that they were right? I suspect the latter.

 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 04, 2016, 09:07:02 AM
In all seriousness G-Unit what else is there to do in Liverpool on a wet Monday eve?

Well, staying in and watching TV would seem to be a better idea on the face of it than going out in the rain to listen to a badly dressed pensioner rabbiting on. I don't think it was just people looking for a way of filling time, but if that's what you choose to believe, fair enough.

Liverpool isn't quite the boring place you seem to think it is, by the way;
http://www.visitliverpool.com/whats-on
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 04, 2016, 01:33:18 PM
Well, staying in and watching TV would seem to be a better idea on the face of it than going out in the rain to listen to a badly dressed pensioner rabbiting on. I don't think it was just people looking for a way of filling time, but if that's what you choose to believe, fair enough.

Liverpool isn't quite the boring place you seem to think it is, by the way;
http://www.visitliverpool.com/whats-on

I feel guilty.  I said "In all seriousness.."  8(8-))

But seriously, Liverpool is home to socialist firebrand Derek Hatton.  Some 65 million people in UK.  Some 10k turned out to hear what JC had to say on a wet Monday eve in Liverpool.  How many do you think would turn out in the Shires regardless of weather conditions?  JC needs to make inroads hitherto denied and I just don't see that happening.

If he's still leader at the time of the next GE the media will play on the fact he said he would not press the nuclear button and TM said she would.  Most people see nuclear weapons as a necessary evil. 

I have visited Liverpool on many occasions.  My Pete has a bit of a thing about military history and we visit HMS whatever.  I amuse myself doing other stuff while he wanders about HMS whatever.   

The maritime museum is good:

http://www.albertdock.com/attractions/merseyside-maritime-museum/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 04, 2016, 02:17:54 PM
As I have already pointed out, simply having thousands turn up to see you waffle on on top of a podium in Liverpool doesn't necessarily mean you have countrywide support - just ask Michael Foot (oh, he's dead, but never mind).  I think Corbyn thrives on the adulation of the crowd of 5000, and will do anything to cling on to his position so that he can keep on being adored by his faithful flock, never mind what happens to the party he supposedly represents.  How selfish can one man be?! 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 04, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
"Jeremy Corbyn put the creation of a million new jobs at the heart of his pitch for re-election as Labour leader as he unveiled a ten-point plan to “transform and rebuild Britain” today.

Vowing that “no-one, and no one part of the country, should be left behind”, he set out a £500bn investment programme covering infrastructure, industry and the construction of a million new homes, half of them council-owned."

£500 BILLION??!

 *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 04, 2016, 06:02:33 PM
He seems so intense and devoid of any soh.  I think he would drive me nuts if I had to spend any length of time with him but I suspect the feeling would be mutual.  From his Wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn

... "telling Simon Hattenstone of The Guardian, "I don't spend a lot of money, I lead a very normal life, I ride a bicycle and I don't have a car"

I wound hardly call riding a bicycle and not having a car "normal"?  Apart from teenagers who have just passed tests and still students I can't think of anyone I know who doesn't own a car.  For those living and working in London it's probably easier not to have a car but most people don't live in London.   

It seems his second marriage ended as he couldn't agree with his wife over their son's education/choice of school.  His third wife says he's not very good at housework.  He sounds difficult to get along with and impractical.

Interviewed by The Huffington Post in December 2015, Corbyn refused to say what his religious beliefs were, saying that they were a "private thing", while denying that he was an atheist. He has said that he is 'sceptical' of having a god in his life. Why can't he just say what his religious beliefs are?  Surely if he wants to become PM the public have a right to know?  His clandestine meetings with the IRA and Hasmas may have converted him to Catholicism or Islam.  It seems to me he just doesn't want to offend the various faiths.  He's vocal about his son's education and yet his faith is a "private matter"   &%+((£

He left school at 18 having achieved two E grade A levels.  Doesn't sound like he can knuckle down and apply himself.   

He's probably well intentioned but his complete Wiki page says it all imo: airy-fairy.  Imo he has zero chance of becoming PM.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 04, 2016, 06:29:37 PM
"Jeremy Corbyn put the creation of a million new jobs at the heart of his pitch for re-election as Labour leader as he unveiled a ten-point plan to “transform and rebuild Britain” today.

Vowing that “no-one, and no one part of the country, should be left behind”, he set out a £500bn investment programme covering infrastructure, industry and the construction of a million new homes, half of them council-owned."

£500 BILLION??!

 *&*%£

We can all play fantasy lets "transform and rebuild Britain" today with £500 billion.  Where exactly is the £500 billion coming from? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 04, 2016, 06:43:56 PM
We can all play fantasy lets "transform and rebuild Britain" today with £500 billion.  Where exactly is the £500 billion coming from?
It's not a question he ever need seriously answer as the likelihood of him ever having to put his money where his mouth is is precisely zero.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 04, 2016, 06:55:20 PM
Corbyn has pledged to build 1 million new homes (half of them council houses) in 5 years.  That's 547 new houses built every single day for 5 years.  Do we have that many builders or will we have to import the whole of Poland to get them built?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on August 04, 2016, 11:37:46 PM
It could also mean he is true to hmself when things dont work out

Yup, time will tell

I'm sorry, duck, but Corbyn does NOT do it for me. He's scruffy, shabby, grudging, universally disliked within his own party, he's got dodgy teeth, bad hair, he's been married THREE TIMES, he's also made the beast with Diane Abbot (Diane ABBOT!!) and he couldn't give a shit about people who've worked hard and made a few bob. He's a total shambles, and he'd make us a laughing stock.

 %56&
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on August 04, 2016, 11:49:32 PM
I'm sorry, duck, but Corbyn does NOT do it for me. He's scruffy, shabby, grudging, universally disliked within his own party, he's got dodgy teeth, bad hair, he's been married THREE TIMES, he's also made the beast with Diane Abbot (Diane ABBOT!!) and he couldn't give a shit about people who've worked hard and made a few bob. He's a total shambles, and he'd make us a laughing stock.

 %56&

I actually like to sit in my garden at the end of the day, watching the bats, drinking Pimms and giving the cucumber and strawberries to my horses. I've bloody earnt it, and deserve it. But if it was up to Corbyn, we'd all be Winston Smith.     %56&
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 05, 2016, 05:43:50 PM
I'm sorry, duck, but Corbyn does NOT do it for me. He's scruffy, shabby, grudging, universally disliked within his own party, he's got dodgy teeth, bad hair, he's been married THREE TIMES, he's also made the beast with Diane Abbot (Diane ABBOT!!) and he couldn't give a shit about people who've worked hard and made a few bob. He's a total shambles, and he'd make us a laughing stock.

 %56&
But worst of all he doesn't have the skills necessary of a successful leader, as evidenced by the huge vote of no confidence in those he is supposed to be leading.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 05, 2016, 05:48:42 PM
Today's Jeremy f..k-Up re Shami Chakrabati peerage:

In the latest example of Mr Corbyn failing to consult colleagues, Mr Watson told the BBC’s Today programme: “I wasn’t aware, I wasn’t consulted whether Shami was going in. I didn’t know that we’d provided citations for this particular round, and I do think it’s a mistake.”

Mr Tom Watson is the deputy leader of the Labour Party btw.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 05, 2016, 07:07:45 PM
I actually like to sit in my garden at the end of the day, watching the bats, drinking Pimms and giving the cucumber and strawberries to my horses. I've bloody earnt it, and deserve it. But if it was up to Corbyn, we'd all be Winston Smith.     %56&

As long as you're OK the rest of the people of Britain who don't have what you have can starve? Including those who can't improve their position; the sick, the old, the disabled? Nice.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 05, 2016, 07:32:28 PM
As long as you're OK the rest of the people of Britain who don't have what you have can starve? Including those who can't improve their position; the sick, the old, the disabled? Nice.
Yes, that's exactly what Puglove said - jeez, talk about putting words in people's mouths!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 09, 2016, 05:57:26 PM
Corbyn has pledged to build 1 million new homes (half of them council houses) in 5 years.  That's 547 new houses built every single day for 5 years.  Do we have that many builders or will we have to import the whole of Poland to get them built?

It would be like being back in the early 1950s slinging up houses at the rate of 250,000+ per annum all done by Paddy and Polak power.
It would be very good news for the Dutch and Belgian brick industries though unless the UK can gear up a bit.




Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 09, 2016, 06:59:52 PM
I actually like to sit in my garden at the end of the day, watching the bats, drinking Pimms and giving the cucumber and strawberries to my horses. I've bloody earnt it, and deserve it. But if it was up to Corbyn, we'd all be Winston Smith.     %56&

1. A perfectly reasonable stance provided you don't come to me looking for a kin hand out when it all goes tits up for you.
2. 2+2 is five isn't it.
 @)(++(*

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 09, 2016, 09:05:30 PM
Whatever people think about Corbyn the Labour Party is changing under his leadership. The NEC elections gave the Left Wingers a majority, thanks to the constituency party votes.

Here is an analysis of his supporters - who they really are and why they want change;

Corbyn supporters are not delusional Leninists but ordinary, fed-up voters

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-voters-labour-leader-politics
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 09, 2016, 11:40:51 PM
Whatever people think about Corbyn the Labour Party is changing under his leadership. The NEC elections gave the Left Wingers a majority, thanks to the constituency party votes.

Here is an analysis of his supporters - who they really are and why they want change;

Corbyn supporters are not delusional Leninists but ordinary, fed-up voters

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/09/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-voters-labour-leader-politics
Yes, the Labour Party is changing - from an electable party to an unelectable one, well done Jeremy and all his fed-up supporters.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 10, 2016, 10:35:44 AM
Yes, the Labour Party is changing - from an electable party to an unelectable one, well done Jeremy and all his fed-up supporters.

Bloody good job too we don't want any of this democracy crap. Benevolent dictatorship is much better.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 10, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
Yes, the Labour Party is changing - from an electable party to an unelectable one, well done Jeremy and all his fed-up supporters.

What use is an electable party which doesn't deliver the policies it's members need? Who says it's unelectable? It's MP's [who haven't even attempted to represent the party members], various 'experts [they got Brexit wrong], the media [what do they know] and Alfie. Let's just wait and see where this goes, it's certainly putting the wind up the establishment. The desperate attempts to discredit Corbyn suggest he is a real threat.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 10, 2016, 09:55:05 PM
What use is an electable party which doesn't deliver the policies it's members need? Who says it's unelectable? It's MP's [who haven't even attempted to represent the party members], various 'experts [they got Brexit wrong], the media [what do they know] and Alfie. Let's just wait and see where this goes, it's certainly putting the wind up the establishment. The desperate attempts to discredit Corbyn suggest he is a real threat.
Yes, Corbyn is a threat - to his own party and to those who don't relish another generation of Tory rule.  Do you REALLY believe I am the only ordinary voter who thinks Corbyn is a complete disaster for his party, and for the concept of democracy in this country generally?  Get real.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 10, 2016, 11:21:08 PM
Yes, Corbyn is a threat - to his own party and to those who don't relish another generation of Tory rule.  Do you REALLY believe I am the only ordinary voter who thinks Corbyn is a complete disaster for his party, and for the concept of democracy in this country generally?  Get real.

So what is the concept of democracy in the UK?

    a. system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.
   
    b. control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.

    c. the belief in freedom and equality between people.

it seems to be more like "having a general election every five years where we can choose between two groups who, pretty much, will do the same things when elected: to whit raise taxes to fund their political whims and screw the needs and wishes of the population". The latter [screw the wishes of the population] may or may not be a bad thing.

       




Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 08:27:10 AM
There are all sorts of fringe, extremist parties for the GBP to vote for in elections, the Labour Party will soon be able to count itself as one.  But which party will step up to the plate as a credible alternative to the Tories?  If UKIP were able to organise a piss up in a brewery this would be their big opportunity, especially when the Tories fail to deliver the Brexit all the Leavers were dreaming of...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2016, 09:00:56 AM
Yes, Corbyn is a threat - to his own party and to those who don't relish another generation of Tory rule.  Do you REALLY believe I am the only ordinary voter who thinks Corbyn is a complete disaster for his party, and for the concept of democracy in this country generally?  Get real.

I don't know what your 'concept of democracy' is, please explain.

Corbyn. like Brexit, is the product of a truly democratic election.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on August 11, 2016, 10:01:13 AM
Seems the great British unions are starting to desert Corby in favour of the also ran.  As predicted of course.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 10:47:08 AM
There are all sorts of fringe, extremist parties for the GBP to vote for in elections, the Labour Party will soon be able to count itself as one.  But which party will step up to the plate as a credible alternative to the Tories?  If UKIP were able to organise a piss up in a brewery this would be their big opportunity, especially when the Tories fail to deliver the Brexit all the Leavers were dreaming of...

Ultimately the Labour Party.
Look at British Party Politics since 1940.
Random examples:
David Steele Liberal-SDP Alliance "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!" Margaret had other ideas.
The Labour Party under Foot and Kinnock was unelectable.
The Tory Party under Ian "The Quietman" Duncan-Smith and William "The Drayman" Hague was unelectable.
But we keep coming back to the same old pair of parties eventually who will continue to do the same old things............like financing sacred cows we cannot afford at the expense of things we need.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 10:52:06 AM
I don't know what your 'concept of democracy' is, please explain.

Corbyn. like Brexit, is the product of a truly democratic election.

Steady on old stick you can't have the oiks taking over............ 8(0(*
The Grauniad Readers and Old Guard will not be in favour of that.
It's only the top two layers that are allowed to change in any revolution............. ?{)(**   
The peasant must always be the peasant and the secret policeman is always the secret police man
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on August 11, 2016, 12:35:07 PM
Jeremy Corbyn has far too many skeletons in his cupboard to ever be taken seriously as a contender for PM of this country.  I fear he has missed his calling by about 25 years.

Jeremy Corbyn spent much of the 1980s speaking at Troops Out rallies. Given the choice between standing with Irish nationalists in the SDLP or Irish republicans in Sinn Fein and the IRA, Jeremy Corbyn chose the latter path. Perhaps someone will now ask him why. Perhaps they’ll ask him why he’s been happy to ‘honour’ IRA members shot by the British Army but disinclined to shed too many tears for those murdered by the IRA.

www.blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/09/the-labour-party-is-now-led-by-people-who-wanted-the-ira-to-win/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 02:06:11 PM
I don't know what your 'concept of democracy' is, please explain.

Corbyn. like Brexit, is the product of a truly democratic election.
I don't recall having to pay any money in order to vote in the referendum, but that's by the by.  My concept of democracy is one in which there is one (if not more) alternative(s) to the present government, that stands a realistic chance of being elected.  The way things are shaping up within the Labour Party with a split almost inevitable it seems to me that we are looking at a one party Tory state for the next god knows how many years. You and Corbyn and his supporters don't seem to think that winning an election is important - I find that quite flabbergasting tbh.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
Jeremy Corbyn has far too many skeletons in his cupboard to ever be taken seriously as a contender for PM of this country.  I fear he has missed his calling by about 25 years.

Jeremy Corbyn spent much of the 1980s speaking at Troops Out rallies. Given the choice between standing with Irish nationalists in the SDLP or Irish republicans in Sinn Fein and the IRA, Jeremy Corbyn chose the latter path. Perhaps someone will now ask him why. Perhaps they’ll ask him why he’s been happy to ‘honour’ IRA members shot by the British Army but disinclined to shed too many tears for those murdered by the IRA.

www.blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/09/the-labour-party-is-now-led-by-people-who-wanted-the-ira-to-win/

The Labour Party has another four years to make itself electable. I don't see Theresa May calling a general election when she has no reason to until 2020.
And like "yer darlin' bleedin' Harold" said a week is a long time in politics so what does that make 200 weeks?
As for the Irish bit that's too complex for words................but Bertie Ahern solved the problem  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 02:12:15 PM
The Labour Party can make itself electable by ditching Grandpa in a shell suit for starters.  The country wants a government that will lead them out of the EU and make this country even more prosperous and successful than it is already - is the man for that job Jeremy Corbyn?  Seriously??
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2016, 03:36:11 PM
I don't recall having to pay any money in order to vote in the referendum, but that's by the by.  My concept of democracy is one in which there is one (if not more) alternative(s) to the present government, that stands a realistic chance of being elected.  The way things are shaping up within the Labour Party with a split almost inevitable it seems to me that we are looking at a one party Tory state for the next god knows how many years. You and Corbyn and his supporters don't seem to think that winning an election is important - I find that quite flabbergasting tbh.

The referendum was a national ballot open to all those eligible. The leader of the Labour Party was chosen by a ballot of members. Whenever you join something you pay, be it a Golf Club, a Trade Union, a Social Club or any UK political Party.

That's not a 'concept of democracy' you're discussing. Such a discussion would involve defining what you think democracy is. Your starting point seems to be the representative democracy we have in the UK with a party system and first past the post result. Then you're back to your opinion of 'what happens next'.

At this moment, due to the behaviour of Labour MP's, the party is having to go through a period of massive change. Instead of doing what they were elected to do [form a government or opposition] they are having to decide what kind of party they want to be in the future. They will either return to a centrist stance or they will return to the democratic socialists they were founded as. Once that's settled the winners can address the question of general elections. Until we know which faction will end up in charge it's too early to forecast their electability imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 03:42:37 PM
The Labour Party can make itself electable by ditching Grandpa in a shell suit for starters.  The country wants a government that will lead them out of the EU and make this country even more prosperous and successful than it is already - is the man for that job Jeremy Corbyn?  Seriously??

It is for the electorate to decide who they want. It is unlikely Theresa May will call a General Election before 2020 so it's all a bit of a fruitless discussion until it is known who will be the leader of the Labour at that time.
Currently Mr Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party elected to that position in accordance with the Labour Party's own rules. Although I see some brief is trying to argue, in court, that Labour's N.E.C can change the rules any time it likes without reference to anyone else, particularly the courts. Nice one.
Mr Corbyn's competence is irrelevant to the process of his election as leader. His removal must be in accordance with the same rules. That's why the P.L.P are having ring twitter but probably more for reasons of it affecting their income potential rather than reasons of altruism or patriotism.
PS I am not a Jeremy Corbyn fan. I am more in favour of the Ottoman Empire style of running a show.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Joanne on August 11, 2016, 04:40:36 PM
Jeremy Corbyn reminds me of what I'd expect a committee member of a social club to look like, I can't work him out, I've never heard any of his policies and they'd have been better off leaving Ed Milliband insitu.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 06:20:12 PM
The referendum was a national ballot open to all those eligible. The leader of the Labour Party was chosen by a ballot of members. Whenever you join something you pay, be it a Golf Club, a Trade Union, a Social Club or any UK political Party.

That's not a 'concept of democracy' you're discussing. Such a discussion would involve defining what you think democracy is. Your starting point seems to be the representative democracy we have in the UK with a party system and first past the post result. Then you're back to your opinion of 'what happens next'.

At this moment, due to the behaviour of Labour MP's, the party is having to go through a period of massive change. Instead of doing what they were elected to do [form a government or opposition] they are having to decide what kind of party they want to be in the future. They will either return to a centrist stance or they will return to the democratic socialists they were founded as. Once that's settled the winners can address the question of general elections. Until we know which faction will end up in charge it's too early to forecast their electability imo.
Is it any wonder?  Labour MPs stood for election for the party they felt best represented their views, and now find they have a leader who has consistently voted against his own party for the last 30 years or more!  How can you blame them for the state the party is in at the moment?!  And yet, it's not simply a case of an ideological shift to the left which these MPs have had to deal with - many accepted this and were happy to give Jeremy a chance as leader but he has turned out to be completely inept in this role.  That is why so many have voted "no confidence" in him.  His adoring fans don't see this ineptitude as in any way a drawback to their party leadership - unbelievable, truly. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 06:22:09 PM
Jeremy Corbyn reminds me of what I'd expect a committee member of a social club to look like, I can't work him out, I've never heard any of his policies and they'd have been better off leaving Ed Milliband insitu.
I'm still waiting to hear a coherent explanation of the current Labour Party's position on Brexit - Jeremy has recently pontificated on the subject but I am still none the wiser.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2016, 07:08:43 PM
Jeremy Corbyn reminds me of what I'd expect a committee member of a social club to look like, I can't work him out, I've never heard any of his policies and they'd have been better off leaving Ed Milliband insitu.

Perhaps people have decided to stop voting for snake oil salesmen? Here are his pledges, hover over them for more details;

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/10_pledges
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 11, 2016, 07:13:38 PM
Perhaps people have decided to stop voting for snake oil salesmen? Here are his pledges, hover over them for more details;

http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/10_pledges
Do you find them realistic and achievable?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 07:24:16 PM
Blast from the past:
Are they S.M.A.R.T    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 11, 2016, 07:27:38 PM
"................ in a letter he wrote to Labour leader Michael Foot in July 1982 he said he had "come to Socialism through Marxism" and considered himself on the left. Like Tony Benn he believed that "Labour right" was bankrupt: "Socialism ultimately must appeal to the better minds of the people. You cannot do that if you are tainted overmuch with a pragmatic period in power." Yet, he saw the hard left as no better, saying:
There is an arrogance and self-righteousness about many of the groups on the far left which is deeply unattractive to the ordinary would-be member... There's too much mixing only with people [with] whom they agree".

Now who is that?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 12, 2016, 01:29:56 AM
And still no one is comng up as a viable leader

What most people gloss over is that corbyn is trying to debarstardise the party and good luck to him

We dont want phoney tory blairs or others pretending to be labour even they call themselves NEW

 *&*%£

Its about honesty and integrity and cleang up politics

Corbyn probably doesnt give a shit if hes PM or not, its only others foaming at the mouth about it
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 08:09:07 AM
Do you find them realistic and achievable?

After the war Britain was virtually bankrupt. The Labour government nevertheless achieved a much more radical set of proposals than those which Corbyn is pledging. They built 3 million homes and set the Welfare State up from scratch. In addition they nationalised 20% of British industry.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 12, 2016, 08:27:47 AM
After the war Britain was virtually bankrupt. The Labour government nevertheless achieved a much more radical set of proposals than those which Corbyn is pledging. They built 3 million homes and set the Welfare State up from scratch. In addition they nationalised 20% of British industry.
With $120 billion thanks to Marshall Aid.  Are we still eligible?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2016, 09:05:03 AM
With $120 billion thanks to Marshall Aid.  Are we still eligible?

It will be a long long time before a majority Labour government ever does anything again.  Corbyn may very well be a legend at his own rallies - but with the Tories at 39% and Labour at 26% I think the electorate may be trying to tell him something.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nkWYlQxuMU8/UARKZo5P93I/AAAAAAAAAPk/iKr5E2vggFg/s320/Nero%2Bfiddling%2Bwhile%2BRome%2Bburns.gif)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 09:27:16 AM
With $120 billion thanks to Marshall Aid.  Are we still eligible?

The amount quoted was shared between all the countries of Western Europe, it didn't all come to Britain. Much of it was loaned, the last repayment being made in 2006, and;

The loan was made primarily to support British overseas expenditure in the immediate post-war years and not to implement the Labour government's welfare reforms. British treasury officials believed they could implement the Labour government's domestic reforms without the loan if Britain withdrew from all major overseas commitments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 09:48:52 AM
It will be a long long time before a majority Labour government ever does anything again.  Corbyn may very well be a legend at his own rallies - but with the Tories at 39% and Labour at 26% I think the electorate may be trying to tell him something.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nkWYlQxuMU8/UARKZo5P93I/AAAAAAAAAPk/iKr5E2vggFg/s320/Nero%2Bfiddling%2Bwhile%2BRome%2Bburns.gif)

"A week is a long time in politics". James Harold Wilson mid 1960s.
"Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government" said David Steele in 1982 encouraged by the opinion polls.
It's at the next general election the truth will be revealed. Up til then about 30% of the population will decide according to the colour of the rosette the monkey is wearing, 60% will haver [both English and Scottish definitions of haver will work!] until one side or another offers them a sucker bet. Ten per cent will be able to see the wood from the trees but they don't count because there aren't enough of them. It was ever thus and ever more shall be so.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2016, 10:10:48 AM
"A week is a long time in politics". James Harold Wilson mid 1960s.
"Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government" said David Steele in 1982 encouraged by the opinion polls.
It's at the next general election the truth will be revealed. Up til then about 30% of the population will decide according to the colour of the rosette the monkey is wearing, 60% will haver [both English and Scottish definitions of haver will work!] until one side or another offers them a sucker bet. Ten per cent will be able to see the wood from the trees but they don't count because there aren't enough of them. It was ever thus and ever more shall be so.

Really no need to bring Wolfie back from retirement.  We've got Derek Hatton and Militant along with the spectacle of the Labour Party imploding.  In the meantime ... the Tories ... anybody remember them or holding their governance to scrutiny? have the the ball at their feet and are running with it.
No sit-com script writer is going to be able to come up with anything to match or surpass the very public suicide of the party established to represent the people and the workers - not the vainglorious ego of any individual.

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7f/cf/f3/7fcff3403a82b0b4b947c91d73094f3a.jpg)

Classic 1970s BBC comedy Citizen Smith set to return
Citizen Smith is back: Classic 1970s BBC comedy starring Robert Lindsay set to return - News - TV & Radio - The Independent
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 10:49:38 AM
Really no need to bring Wolfie back from retirement.  We've got Derek Hatton and Militant along with the spectacle of the Labour Party imploding.  In the meantime ... the Tories ... anybody remember them or holding their governance to scrutiny? have the the ball at their feet and are running with it.
No sit-com script writer is going to be able to come up with anything to match or surpass the very public suicide of the party established to represent the people and the workers - not the vainglorious ego of any individual.

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7f/cf/f3/7fcff3403a82b0b4b947c91d73094f3a.jpg)

Classic 1970s BBC comedy Citizen Smith set to return
Citizen Smith is back: Classic 1970s BBC comedy starring Robert Lindsay set to return - News - TV & Radio - The Independent

A better comparison;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Very_British_Coup
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 11:13:38 AM
Really no need to bring Wolfie back from retirement.  We've got Derek Hatton and Militant along with the spectacle of the Labour Party imploding.  In the meantime ... the Tories ... anybody remember them or holding their governance to scrutiny? have the the ball at their feet and are running with it.
No sit-com script writer is going to be able to come up with anything to match or surpass the very public suicide of the party established to represent the people and the workers - not the vainglorious ego of any individual.

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7f/cf/f3/7fcff3403a82b0b4b947c91d73094f3a.jpg)

Classic 1970s BBC comedy Citizen Smith set to return
Citizen Smith is back: Classic 1970s BBC comedy starring Robert Lindsay set to return - News - TV & Radio - The Independent

I fail to understand the relevance of a Robert Lindsay sitcom to what I posted.
If you wish to have a political discussion I am your man ; if you wish to deflect and be daft then deal me out.
Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 11:54:58 AM
I fail to understand the relevance of a Robert Lindsay sitcom to what I posted.
If you wish to have a political discussion I am your man ; if you wish to deflect and be daft then deal me out.
Have a nice day.


I tend to equate Citizen Smith with the various anti-Roman factions in Life of Brian such as The People's Front of Judea. In fact those factions in the film were a satire on the small ineffectual Trotskyist factions in 1970's UK. It has nothing to say about what is happening in the Labour Party now, despite some efforts to equate the two. A rather desperate ploy, I think.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2016, 12:33:19 PM

I tend to equate Citizen Smith with the various anti-Roman factions in Life of Brian such as The People's Front of Judea. In fact those factions in the film were a satire on the small ineffectual Trotskyist factions in 1970's UK. It has nothing to say about what is happening in the Labour Party now, despite some efforts to equate the two. A rather desperate ploy, I think.

A very pertinent question in there ... "what is happening to the Labour Party now?"  Soon perhaps to be transferred into ... "what will happen to the Labour Party under an entryist ideology?"
It may well be worth considering that.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2016, 01:19:57 PM
I fail to understand the relevance of a Robert Lindsay sitcom to what I posted.
If you wish to have a political discussion I am your man ; if you wish to deflect and be daft then deal me out.
Have a nice day.


There is a school of thought that the art of debate is to pick up whatever is pitched and to run with it.  The antithesis being the petty put down.
I'm obliged to you for dealing me out of the latter scenario.   8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on August 12, 2016, 02:00:47 PM
A very pertinent question in there ... "what is happening to the Labour Party now?"  Soon perhaps to be transferred into ... "what will happen to the Labour Party under an entryist ideology?"
It may well be worth considering that.

The Labour Party should not have got itself in this mess and taking months to try and sort it out will not remedy the original ailment.  All very poor show in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 02:53:03 PM
A very pertinent question in there ... "what is happening to the Labour Party now?"  Soon perhaps to be transferred into ... "what will happen to the Labour Party under an entryist ideology?"
It may well be worth considering that.

Here's an example;

The 2015 Labour leadership election in the United Kingdom was the target of a campaign by The Daily Telegraph for Conservative sympathisers to join the Labour party as £3 supporters in order to vote for the left wing candidate Jeremy Corbyn, with a view to rendering the party un-electable. [12] This strategy was labelled 'entryism' by observers
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on August 12, 2016, 03:59:21 PM
The Labour Party should not have got itself in this mess and taking months to try and sort it out will not remedy the original ailment.  All very poor show in my opinion.

A disaster for democracy, John.
Whatever the complexion of the government there has to be the balance of effective opposition.  At least Cameron had the dignity to fall on his sword thus preventing anything like this debacle happening in the governing party.  There was no immediate clamour for his resignation among his peers.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 04:54:59 PM
A disaster for democracy, John.
Whatever the complexion of the government there has to be the balance of effective opposition.  At least Cameron had the dignity to fall on his sword thus preventing anything like this debacle happening in the governing party.  There was no immediate clamour for his resignation among his peers.

Merely a quiet but firm word from 'the men in grey suits' perhaps.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 12, 2016, 06:02:30 PM
The amount quoted was shared between all the countries of Western Europe, it didn't all come to Britain. Much of it was loaned, the last repayment being made in 2006, and;

The loan was made primarily to support British overseas expenditure in the immediate post-war years and not to implement the Labour government's welfare reforms. British treasury officials believed they could implement the Labour government's domestic reforms without the loan if Britain withdrew from all major overseas commitments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-American_loan
OK, so how is Jeremy going to raise £500 million, sorry BILLION pounds to implement his policies then?  Some of his policy promises put me in mind of Francois Hollande's and look how well he's doing!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on August 12, 2016, 06:16:46 PM
A disaster for democracy, John.
Whatever the complexion of the government there has to be the balance of effective opposition.  At least Cameron had the dignity to fall on his sword thus preventing anything like this debacle happening in the governing party.  There was no immediate clamour for his resignation among his peers.

There is no doubting that Jeremy has support from certan factions but I don't think that support translates across all Labour heartlands. In my view he is simply hanging on out of his own vested interests and not for the greater good of the Labour Party.  Or to put it another way, the Party will remain divided for as long as he remains its leader.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 12, 2016, 07:24:48 PM
There is no doubting that Jeremy has support from certan factions but I don't think that support translates across all Labour heartlands. In my view he is simply hanging on out of his own vested interests and not for the greater good of the Labour Party.  Or to put it another way, the Party will remain divided for as long as he remains its leader.

I don't see how it benefits Corbyn to 'hang on' as you put it. He has been subjected to hatred and ridicule, back-stabbing and disloyalty. At the moment he and Smith are touring the country setting out their visions for the future of the party. Thousands are turning out and it's not to hear Smith. If Corbyn goes so will all those who have been given hope after the despair caused by New Labour and the Conservatives. The establishment knows what it wants; centrist parties with similar policies. The people supporting Corbyn want something different.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on August 12, 2016, 07:56:13 PM
I don't see how it benefits Corbyn to 'hang on' as you put it. He has been subjected to hatred and ridicule, back-stabbing and disloyalty. At the moment he and Smith are touring the country setting out their visions for the future of the party. Thousands are turning out and it's not to hear Smith. If Corbyn goes so will all those who have been given hope after the despair caused by New Labour and the Conservatives. The establishment knows what it wants; centrist parties with similar policies. The people supporting Corbyn want something different.

....and how many people are there who want something different ?

i.e. a return to the good old days of the 70's ? 8)--))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 09:16:51 PM

There is a school of thought that the art of debate is to pick up whatever is pitched and to run with it.  The antithesis being the petty put down.
I'm obliged to you for dealing me out of the latter scenario.   8)--))

1. That holds true provided the pitcher has pitched something of relevance to the debate.
2. Believe me it was my pleasure to do so.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 12, 2016, 09:52:49 PM
"Labour was within its rights to stop new members voting in its leadership contest between Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith, the Court of Appeal has ruled.
It found Labour had the power "to set the criteria for members to be eligible to vote", effectively reintroducing the voting ban on nearly 130,000 members" - BBC News.
 8)><(
 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 11:22:11 PM
I suppose they could appeal to the next court up ?
That would be rather droll.... ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 11:31:56 PM
....and how many people are there who want something different ?

i.e. a return to the good old days of the 70's ? 8)--))

I remember TINA, when she was leader of the opposition, in late 1970s saying a mortgage rate of 11% was unacceptable.
We found out just what she meant when her were elected.....jacked up to 15% heap quick like...... @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 12, 2016, 11:55:56 PM
The Labour Party should not have got itself in this mess and taking months to try and sort it out will not remedy the original ailment.  All very poor show in my opinion.

It is not a lot different from the position it was in during the "thirteen years of tory misrule".
"Gaitskellites" on one side and "Bevanites" on the other pitching against each other.
Blimey there were rifts under Ramsay MacDonald even.
Maybe it will always be the same but I doubt the present ruck is the catastrascope some are painting it to be because they don't like garden gnome lookylikies.
Does anyone seriously believe it is the end of democracy as we know it ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 13, 2016, 12:04:48 AM
I don't see how it benefits Corbyn to 'hang on' as you put it. He has been subjected to hatred and ridicule, back-stabbing and disloyalty. At the moment he and Smith are touring the country setting out their visions for the future of the party. Thousands are turning out and it's not to hear Smith. If Corbyn goes so will all those who have been given hope after the despair caused by New Labour and the Conservatives. The establishment knows what it wants; centrist parties with similar policies. The people supporting Corbyn want something different.

Its the arab spring for the labour party
Get their stolen kahunas back time
 ?>)()<
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 13, 2016, 12:28:44 AM
It will be a long long time before a majority Labour government ever does anything again.  Corbyn may very well be a legend at his own rallies - but with the Tories at 39% and Labour at 26% I think the electorate may be trying to tell him something.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nkWYlQxuMU8/UARKZo5P93I/AAAAAAAAAPk/iKr5E2vggFg/s320/Nero%2Bfiddling%2Bwhile%2BRome%2Bburns.gif)
Polls have been proven to be worthless, well, most of the time
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 13, 2016, 12:31:29 AM
A very pertinent question in there ... "what is happening to the Labour Party now?"  Soon perhaps to be transferred into ... "what will happen to the Labour Party under an entryist ideology?"
It may well be worth considering that.
It may well be worth considering what a  disgusting shambles cameron and his predecessors made and who can reverse it all

 8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 13, 2016, 12:34:41 AM
....and how many people are there who want something different ?

i.e. a return to the good old days of the 70's ? 8)--))

Stephen, times move on, the labour party will have learnt from any mistakes, sadly the tories never do thats why were in this mess now
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 13, 2016, 08:32:45 AM
What a topsy turvy world we inhabit on this forum, one in which it is the Tories who are in a mess, and not the Labour Party!!  One in which we can casually ignore polls and believe that the country is simple gagging to vote Jeremy in as PM.   *&*%£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 09:35:52 AM
The Conservative and Unionist Party have to extricate themselves from the mire they created by having two long running factions, one of which is in favour of remaining in the EU the other is not. Does anyone seriously believe these factions have suddenly disappeared and everyone is of single accord ? Watch this space when the recess is over.
Mr Cameron offered a referendum more to stuff a bun in the mouth of one faction and to divest himself of another monkey that was on his back than for any other reason. It didn't pan out except for divesting himself of one monkey.

Next General Election due 2020 it is pointless talking about Mr Corbyn's merit as a PM until we know he is a contender *. Or more importantly what the world looks like in 2020.
Unless this is a proxy war of course.

*  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6YMrJt7xk

p.s as for opposition, like her or loathe her Ms Sturgeon will rally her troops well enough to provide an effective opposition. She will make plenty of bullets for Mr Robertson to fire I am sure... ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on August 13, 2016, 09:36:15 AM
Stephen, times move on, the labour party will have learnt from any mistakes, sadly the tories never do thats why were in this mess now

Sorry Mercury, it is Labour who are in a mess, and that is self evident.

As to the Tories, let's see what happens over Brexit.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2016, 10:26:16 AM
In  2010 Cameron portrayed himself as a one nation Tory but ever since the poor have been consistently attacked. May has also claimed to be a one nation Tory. Time will tell.

Corbyn is a democratic socialist and his stated aim is to improve the lot of the poor and the working class. If the Tories continue to attack them Corbyn will become a realistic alternative. The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich.

The working class, by the way, I define as anyone who relies on wages to live.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 12:11:28 PM
In  2010 Cameron portrayed himself as a one nation Tory but ever since the poor have been consistently attacked. May has also claimed to be a one nation Tory. Time will tell.

Corbyn is a democratic socialist and his stated aim is to improve the lot of the poor and the working class. If the Tories continue to attack them Corbyn will become a realistic alternative. The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich.

The working class, by the way, I define as anyone who relies on wages to live.

I could not agree more. Either you have to work for your corn or you don't.
Sod all this A,B,C1,C2, D and E nonsense!  'twas on a Monday morning when the gas man came to call.......It all makes work for a sociologist to do.
Teach the buggers[ sociologists] how to operate CNC machine tools and be of use to the community instead of compiling lists only they do anything with.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 13, 2016, 12:30:52 PM
In  2010 Cameron portrayed himself as a one nation Tory but ever since the poor have been consistently attacked. May has also claimed to be a one nation Tory. Time will tell.

Corbyn is a democratic socialist and his stated aim is to improve the lot of the poor and the working class. If the Tories continue to attack them Corbyn will become a realistic alternative. The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich.

The working class, by the way, I define as anyone who relies on wages to live.

Sadly G  this is his personal stated aim, and a very admiral quality it is,However, he requires others to implement this new 3rd way thinking, as long as we have corruption, greed, party politics,  self centred lobbyists, fat cat unions- it will stay a personal admiral quality. It will also be interesting who is defined as 'poor' and how much the working class have to pay tax for these 'poor' The working classes are paying for those better off then thmselves in some cases!

" The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich".  who will move themselves and their money abroad-leaving the working classes to pick up the tabs! There is nothing fair about socialism they belive in'positive' discrimination and implement it and support it. ask any token 'black, disabled, asian,women, who have been given a job just because they are the token black, disabled, asian, woman not because they are the best person for the job. It does not redress th balance of negative decrimination at all it is...discrimination in another frock.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 12:57:20 PM
Sadly G  this is his personal stated aim, and a very admiral quality it is,However, he requires others to implement this new 3rd way thinking, as long as we have corruption, greed, party politics,  self centred lobbyists, fat cat unions- it will stay a personal admiral quality. It will also be interesting who is defined as 'poor' and how much the working class have to pay tax for these 'poor' The working classes are paying for those better off then thmselves in some cases!

" The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich".  who will move themselves and their money abroad-leaving the working classes to pick up the tabs! There is nothing fair about socialism they belive in'positive' discrimination and implement it and support it. ask any token 'black, disabled, asian,women, who have been given a job just because they are the token black, disabled, asian, woman not because they are the best person for the job. It does not redress th balance of negative decrimination at all it is...discrimination in another frock.

Wait until the general population find out what IDS really did with Disability Living Allowance when he morphed it into the Personal Independence Payment............ when you have worked it out there are no prizes for guessing why..... @)(++(* except it is not really funny.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 13, 2016, 01:46:31 PM
In  2010 Cameron portrayed himself as a one nation Tory but ever since the poor have been consistently attacked. May has also claimed to be a one nation Tory. Time will tell.

Corbyn is a democratic socialist and his stated aim is to improve the lot of the poor and the working class. If the Tories continue to attack them Corbyn will become a realistic alternative. The only ones with reason to fear him are the rich.

The working class, by the way, I define as anyone who relies on wages to live.
What do you call those who don't receive wages and who rely on state support to live?  According to your definition I am working class but don't see how Jeremy is going to improve my lot as he will no doubt be anxious to put my taxes up!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 13, 2016, 01:54:40 PM
Interesting comment on the Guardian website today:

"How on earth can anyone in their right mind vote for a Party whose members cannot agree amongst themselves HOW a leader is to be elected, let alone WHO??? This whole episode will be a disaster not only for the Labour Party, but for the whole country. Like it or not, Labour are the ONLY party which could provide effective opposition in Parliament, if it could get its act together. Currently it provides no viable opposition or potential government. Also, I still believe that the Sturgeon/Salmond axis in Scotland could still lead to a further referendum to enable Scotland to join the EU after Brexit. I also believe that whilst it would be a close run thing, the vote would be a narrow victory for the separatists. If this were to happen, the opposition benches would lose 56 seats, bestowing a disastrous majority on the Tories of over 60 seats, and consigning Labour to oblivion"
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 02:33:04 PM
The Guardian in its wisdom has spoke and Pollyanna rides again. Where is Keith Waterhouse when we really need him ?.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 13, 2016, 02:46:05 PM
What do you call those who don't receive wages and who rely on state support to live?  According to your definition I am working class but don't see how Jeremy is going to improve my lot as he will no doubt be anxious to put my taxes up!

Anyone on benefits is working class, otherwise they wouldn't need benefits. He is planning a 1% rise in Corporation Tax if you pay that, and a return to the 50p higher tax rate if you are on PAYE.

Benefit payments will be reduced by a return to full employment. I remember that - you could quit a job in the morning and start a new one in the afternoon. Unskilled workers didn't need a CV or have to jump through hoops convincing employers that they were team players with their only aim in life being to serve people in a fast food outlet. More council houses will stop private landlords lining their pockets with housing benefit; they charge double what councils charge and don't provide safe housing. 40% of flats being let out by these landlords are ex-council.

Someone needs to address the growth of sub standard multiple occupancy housing where strangers[often immigrants] are living two to a room or sleeping in cellars. There are terrible problems being faced by the 999 service, the police and ambulance services. They are having to deal with lack of interpreters and being the first call for mental health problems, time wasters, illegal immigrants and alcoholics. I've seen some terribly sad programmes highlighting these problems;

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/999-whats-your-emergency
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 13, 2016, 06:03:30 PM
Anyone on benefits is working class, otherwise they wouldn't need benefits. He is planning a 1% rise in Corporation Tax if you pay that, and a return to the 50p higher tax rate if you are on PAYE.

Benefit payments will be reduced by a return to full employment. I remember that - you could quit a job in the morning and start a new one in the afternoon. Unskilled workers didn't need a CV or have to jump through hoops convincing employers that they were team players with their only aim in life being to serve people in a fast food outlet. More council houses will stop private landlords lining their pockets with housing benefit; they charge double what councils charge and don't provide safe housing. 40% of flats being let out by these landlords are ex-council.

Someone needs to address the growth of sub standard multiple occupancy housing where strangers[often immigrants] are living two to a room or sleeping in cellars. There are terrible problems being faced by the 999 service, the police and ambulance services. They are having to deal with lack of interpreters and being the first call for mental health problems, time wasters, illegal immigrants and alcoholics. I've seen some terribly sad programmes highlighting these problems;

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/999-whats-your-emergency
Absolute tosh that anyone on benefits is working class - your definitions need some work methinks.   YesJeremy's higher taxes will certainly effect me, and a significant percentage of the population.  If they did a referendum on whether or not to raise taxes I doubt there would be a majority "yes" vote. 

How is Jeremy planning to create full employment?  Force people to take jobs they don't want to do?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 13, 2016, 06:14:30 PM
Anyone on benefits is working class, otherwise they wouldn't need benefits. He is planning a 1% rise in Corporation Tax if you pay that, and a return to the 50p higher tax rate if you are on PAYE.

Benefit payments will be reduced by a return to full employment. I remember that - you could quit a job in the morning and start a new one in the afternoon. Unskilled workers didn't need a CV or have to jump through hoops convincing employers that they were team players with their only aim in life being to serve people in a fast food outlet. More council houses will stop private landlords lining their pockets with housing benefit; they charge double what councils charge and don't provide safe housing. 40% of flats being let out by these landlords are ex-council.

Someone needs to address the growth of sub standard multiple occupancy housing where strangers[often immigrants] are living two to a room or sleeping in cellars. There are terrible problems being faced by the 999 service, the police and ambulance services. They are having to deal with lack of interpreters and being the first call for mental health problems, time wasters, illegal immigrants and alcoholics. I've seen some terribly sad programmes highlighting these problems;


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/999-whats-your-emergency
Brexit will solve this - send 'em all home! 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 07:20:42 PM

An eye opener here on welfare:

http://visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/nhs-numbers-0

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defence-budget-increases-for-the-first-time-in-six-years

The New Theory :
Carousel on your 65th birthday (see Logan's Run). No child minding credits for Class B's and C1's, do what you expect the sponging Class D's to do.
Pay what you can afford to toward your treatment and it's only totally free at point of use for those on £25k pa or less.
Don't pick fights with foreign countries.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 13, 2016, 07:30:49 PM
What do you call those who don't receive wages and who rely on state support to live?  According to your definition I am working class but don't see how Jeremy is going to improve my lot as he will no doubt be anxious to put my taxes up!

Like all governments Alfie he will hit the middle bit of the distribution curve good and hard. That's where the dosh is most readily accessible. If you are on up to £60k on PAYE you have no hope. If it's not raised on income tax it will be a sneaky dog's dinner tax that hits the same group. Labour do it with income tax the Tories, the party of low income taxation, do it with dog's dinner taxes...........wake up. The first track on Revolver tells all  ?{)(**
What's your idea on how to raise the revenue then?  ignoring the colour of the monkey's rosette cos when push comes to shove it's about raising cash to run the country not political idealism.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 14, 2016, 12:47:22 AM
What a topsy turvy world we inhabit on this forum, one in which it is the Tories who are in a mess, and not the Labour Party!!  One in which we can casually ignore polls and believe that the country is simple gagging to vote Jeremy in as PM.   *&*%£
the tories have a disgraceful history off of their last two terms in power, sadly people have short memories or dont care
Corbyn is playing them all and good on him
Hes too long in the tooth to be told anything at all  by fkwits from whatever party
They are all being truly  taught a lesson or two
He is a man of principle, is proving it, and you and countless others will be the fool at the end of it
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 14, 2016, 12:51:40 AM
The Conservative and Unionist Party have to extricate themselves from the mire they created by having two long running factions, one of which is in favour of remaining in the EU the other is not. Does anyone seriously believe these factions have suddenly disappeared and everyone is of single accord ? Watch this space when the recess is over.
Mr Cameron offered a referendum more to stuff a bun in the mouth of one faction and to divest himself of another monkey that was on his back than for any other reason. It didn't pan out except for divesting himself of one monkey.

Next General Election due 2020 it is pointless talking about Mr Corbyn's merit as a PM until we know he is a contender *. Or more importantly what the world looks like in 2020.
Unless this is a proxy war of course.

*  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6YMrJt7xk

p.s as for opposition, like her or loathe her Ms Sturgeon will rally her troops well enough to provide an effective opposition. She will make plenty of bullets for Mr Robertson to fire I am sure... ?{)(**
Indeed shes no pushover, shes a steady grip
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 14, 2016, 09:18:11 AM
the tories have a disgraceful history off of their last two terms in power, sadly people have short memories or dont care
Corbyn is playing them all and good on him
Hes too long in the tooth to be told anything at all  by fkwits from whatever party
They are all being truly  taught a lesson or two
He is a man of principle, is proving it, and you and countless others will be the fool at the end of it
How so?  The only way I and others will be the fool at the end of it is if Jeremy becomes PM.  That simply is not going to happen, no matter how hard you wish for it to be so. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 14, 2016, 10:37:17 AM
I remain with bated breath waiting to hear Alfie's alternative proposals to taxation for revenue generation.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 14, 2016, 11:53:14 AM
I remain with bated breath waiting to hear Alfie's alternative proposals to taxation for revenue generation.
1) I have never suggested that we should not be taxed at all.
2) This thread is not about what I would do, but about what Jeremy Corbyn plans to do when he is PM (chortle).
3) This is the last time I respond to your goading comments.

Goodbye.  &8#£%
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2016, 02:16:40 PM
1) I have never suggested that we should not be taxed at all.
2) This thread is not about what I would do, but about what Jeremy Corbyn plans to do when he is PM (chortle).
3) This is the last time I respond to your goading comments.

Goodbye.  &8#£%

I wonder if his plans would affect you, or were you crying wolf for no reason.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 14, 2016, 04:02:27 PM
I wonder if his plans would affect you, or were you crying wolf for no reason.
Yes they would affect me of course, they would affect most people in this country one way or another. 

Any idea yet what he plans to do with regard Brexit?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2016, 06:34:18 PM
Yes they would affect me of course, they would affect most people in this country one way or another. 

Any idea yet what he plans to do with regard Brexit?

His tax gathering plan wouldn't affect me because I don't pay Corporation Tax or the higher rste of PAYE. The average salary is £26,500, but everyone below £43,000.01 would escape the rise in the higher rate of PAYE.

A 1% rise in Corporation Tax might lead to some price rises, I suppose, but if the money was used to invest in infrastructure and encouraging industry that would be good.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 14, 2016, 06:47:29 PM
Under The Tories more and more people have been taken out of paying any income tax at all* nearly 50% in fact, whilst over a quarter of all taxes raised are paid by just 300,000 people.  It would be interesting to see how Jeremy's tax policies would change these figures.

* amended for the benefit of the pedants amongst us.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 14, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
1) I have never suggested that we should not be taxed at all.
2) This thread is not about what I would do, but about what Jeremy Corbyn plans to do when he is PM (chortle).
3) This is the last time I respond to your goading comments.

Goodbye.  &8#£%

So you consider it goading for me to lead out with a question which tries to determine whether you object to taxation in principle or the idea that Mr Corbyn, in your eyes, would have no right to raise revenue through taxation by whatever means if he ever became PM ?
How else can a government raise income?. So in the event Corbyn put up income tax so what ? provided he delivers the necessary services. Or you could have the present alternative if you like. Taxation is not increased resulting in crap services. I guess it is a difficult concept to get ones head around.



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 14, 2016, 07:22:12 PM
Under The Tories more and more people have been taken out of paying any tax at all, nearly 50% in fact, whilst over a quarter of all taxes raised are paid by just 300,000 people.  It would be interesting to see how Jeremy's tax policies would change these figures.

Do you mean they are exempt from paying, VAT , Insurance Premium Tax, fuel tax, road fund tax and all that good stuff?
Where do I join up ...........?

 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 14, 2016, 07:42:01 PM
Under The Tories more and more people have been taken out of paying any tax at all, nearly 50% in fact, whilst over a quarter of all taxes raised are paid by just 300,000 people.  It would be interesting to see how Jeremy's tax policies would change these figures.

The personal allowance is £ 11,000, so you pay nothing if you earn less than that. Who are these lucky people? Those on minimum wage? It depends on your age and how many hours you work.

Age 18 - 20 £5,39 per hour. Multiplied by 37.5 hours per week is £ 10, 335 per annum. So they pay no tax.
Age 21-24 £ 6.70 per hour. Calculate as above £ 12,090 per annum. They pay tax.
Age 25 plus £ 7.20 per hour. Calculate as above £ 14,040 per annum. They pay tax.

It would seem that those paying no tax are either young workers or part-time workers.

So a full time adult worker on minimum wage pays tax. If they have a family they also get top-ups; working tax credits etc. Raising the minimum wage would mean less top-ups would be needed. That would add to the governments coffers. Would companies then be less competitive because of the higher wages bill? Perhaps those at the top might a] take a pay cut or b] earn their higher salaries by finding ways to cut costs elsewhere.


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 14, 2016, 08:49:59 PM
The personal allowance is £ 11,000, so you pay nothing if you earn less than that. Who are these lucky people? Those on minimum wage? It depends on your age and how many hours you work.

Age 18 - 20 £5,39 per hour. Multiplied by 37.5 hours per week is £ 10, 335 per annum. So they pay no tax.
Age 21-24 £ 6.70 per hour. Calculate as above £ 12,090 per annum. They pay tax.
Age 25 plus £ 7.20 per hour. Calculate as above £ 14,040 per annum. They pay tax.

It would seem that those paying no tax are either young workers or part-time workers.

So a full time adult worker on minimum wage pays tax. If they have a family they also get top-ups; working tax credits etc. Raising the minimum wage would mean less top-ups would be needed. That would add to the governments coffers. Would companies then be less competitive because of the higher wages bill? Perhaps those at the top might a] take a pay cut or b] earn their higher salaries by finding ways to cut costs elsewhere.
or c) move to countries with lower taxes?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 14, 2016, 09:38:00 PM
How so?  The only way I and others will be the fool at the end of it is if Jeremy becomes PM.  That simply is not going to happen, no matter how hard you wish for it to be so.

Ive never said he will be PM or wished softly or hard for him to be so, but you are wishng very hard for him not to be so lol
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 14, 2016, 09:41:43 PM
According to alfie 50 per cent of working people have been taken out of tax altogether

Thats 15 million people

Far too many to be making just 11k a year, the price of one nights bash out in the town for some (lowly) executives of a big company, the high ones would shock you
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 14, 2016, 11:51:09 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

The devil is in the detail. aka RTFSPS
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 15, 2016, 12:26:19 AM
Loved the part where osborne et al want to rebrand the tories as the workers champion

 *&*%£

My fat arse
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2016, 08:12:49 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

The devil is in the detail. aka RTFSPS

The headline is that half of Britons pay no income tax. There are about 65 million people in the UK and so half [32.5 million] pay no income tax. In that half are children, pensioners, the unemployed, the sick and disabled.

What of those who are of working age? There's 46 million of them, and half [23 million] don't pay income tax. The article doesn't say they're working, so a lot of them will be unemployed, sick and disabled too. Some will be housewives or househusbands, who are classed as inactive. Others will be working part-time, earning below the tax threshold. Then we have apprentices and youngsters on a low wage.

In my opinion the article is very misleading. It quotes the Institute for Fiscal Studies for it's figures, but this is what they said elsewhere;

Budget 2016: IFS savages tax claims as 'rhetorical nonsense'

The respected thinktank used its closely watched post-budget analysis to highlight “disingenuousness” in Osborne’s claims he was taking the lowest paid “out of tax”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/17/budget-2016-ifs-savages-osborne-tax-claims-as-rhetorical-nonsense
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 15, 2016, 09:03:04 AM
it stands to reason, if you increase the income tax threshold, fewer people will be paying income tax, does it not?  Under a Tory government the threshold has risen from £6475 to £10600, did no low paid person benefit as a result?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2016, 09:59:50 AM
it stands to reason, if you increase the income tax threshold, fewer people will be paying income tax, does it not?  Under a Tory government the threshold has risen from £6475 to £10600, did no low paid person benefit as a result?

The figures you quoted seem to refer only to the 2016 budget, so previous years would have to be researched. I'm sure the figures exist, why not research it?

I have shown that a person aged 21 years of age or over working 37.5 hours per week for the 'living wage' will exceed £11,000, so it seems that no-one with a 'full-time' job was taken out of income tax.

That leaves young workers 20 years of age or below and part-time workers. Can you think of any others?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 15, 2016, 10:15:14 AM
The figures you quoted seem to refer only to the 2016 budget, so previous years would have to be researched. I'm sure the figures exist, why not research it?

I have shown that a person aged 21 years of age or over working 37.5 hours per week for the 'living wage' will exceed £11,000, so it seems that no-one with a 'full-time' job was taken out of income tax.

That leaves young workers 20 years of age or below and part-time workers. Can you think of any others?
I quoted two figures - one the tax threshold when the Tories came to power and the other the revised threshold at the last budget, a figure which will be going up to over £11k next year.  If you had a part-time job on the minimum wage (and many people do) youwould likely have been taken out of income tax, in any case raising the threshold means low paid full time workers only pay tax on a small minority of their earnings.  If you would like to make the case that Osborne's tax changes have not benefited the low paid at all then let's hear why not.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 15, 2016, 10:19:10 AM
And as this thread is about Jeremy's policies, what are his plans re: tax and low paid workers, and how is he going to guarantee jobs for all?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 15, 2016, 10:42:22 AM
And as this thread is about Jeremy's policies, what are his plans re: tax and low paid workers, and how is he going to guarantee jobs for all?

As you are the one who so wants him not to be PM on what basis is that?
For your objection to be rational it surely would be because you are opposed to his policies therefore on that basis you would know what they are so why ask ?
We know "jobs for all" is pie in the sky unless one reverts to Spanish Practices so presumably he will do just that; simples. He could for example modify the scope of the present methods by increasing the number of lists the unemployed can be on so they rarely, if ever, show up on the one entitled "unemployed". They are however lists that should be entitled "playing silly buggers with Surestart and Remploy so we can keep the unemployment figures down"

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 15, 2016, 10:51:01 AM
Do you ever get the feeling that someone is just desperate for my attention no matter what I write, or what position I take on any given subject...? &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2016, 11:25:00 AM
I quoted two figures - one the tax threshold when the Tories came to power and the other the revised threshold at the last budget, a figure which will be going up to over £11k next year.  If you had a part-time job on the minimum wage (and many people do) youwould likely have been taken out of income tax, in any case raising the threshold means low paid full time workers only pay tax on a small minority of their earnings.  If you would like to make the case that Osborne's tax changes have not benefited the low paid at all then let's hear why not.

The figures you quoted need researching as to the amount of the minumum wage and the tax threshold for the years 2010-2015, as I pointed out.

Most part-time workers on minimum wage wouldn't have reached the tax threshold anyway. It doesn't matter if the raising of the threshold reduced income tax, it's paying no income tax Osborne was bragging about.

Minimum wage part time workers would have paid less income tax when the allowance was raised if they were in the taxable bracket originally.  Osborne then proposed cutting tax credits. Giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

You are the one who said the Tories took people out of paying tax, so you should provide figures to support your assertion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 15, 2016, 12:23:36 PM
Do you ever get the feeling that someone is just desperate for my attention no matter what I write, or what position I take on any given subject...? &%+((£

Don't post then; problem solved otherwise expect comments if you will post on an open forum.
If you don't like that idea do what they do in Gotham (Gotham Notts that is not Gotham City).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 15, 2016, 03:04:04 PM
The figures you quoted need researching as to the amount of the minumum wage and the tax threshold for the years 2010-2015, as I pointed out.

Most part-time workers on minimum wage wouldn't have reached the tax threshold anyway. It doesn't matter if the raising of the threshold reduced income tax, it's paying no income tax Osborne was bragging about.

Minimum wage part time workers would have paid less income tax when the allowance was raised if they were in the taxable bracket originally.  Osborne then proposed cutting tax credits. Giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

You are the one who said the Tories took people out of paying tax, so you should provide figures to support your assertion.
They have and I already did, you have chosen not to accept them, your choice.  I'm currently waiting to fly out of the country and as I've never been a Tory voter I'm not going to waste any more time defending their policies.  Tory s..m, robbing the poor, I can't wait for Jeremy to sort it all out for us.  There, talking your language now... 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2016, 06:00:11 PM
They have and I already did, you have chosen not to accept them, your choice.  I'm currently waiting to fly out of the country and as I've never been a Tory voter I'm not going to waste any more time defending their policies.  Tory s..m, robbing the poor, I can't wait for Jeremy to sort it all out for us.  There, talking your language now... 8(0(*

I think you're mixing me up with someone else, I have done my best to explain where Corbyn is coming from, but I'm not a fan of anyone's, I'm too cynical for that. 

Holiday?  &8#£% Have a nice time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 15, 2016, 10:24:36 PM
it stands to reason, if you increase the income tax threshold, fewer people will be paying income tax, does it not?  Under a Tory government the threshold has risen from £6475 to £10600, did no low paid person benefit as a result?
Thats a 750 quid roughly saving per year, until you start factoring in the CUTS and the RISING prices of certain things
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 15, 2016, 10:27:30 PM
They have and I already did, you have chosen not to accept them, your choice.  I'm currently waiting to fly out of the country and as I've never been a Tory voter I'm not going to waste any more time defending their policies.  Tory s..m, robbing the poor, I can't wait for Jeremy to sort it all out for us.  There, talking your language now... 8(0(*

Just make sure youre not reading any art and culture book that jentions syria and not going to turkey, you might get arrested for suspicious behaviour and that would be a shame lol
Have a good un
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2016, 08:34:09 AM
The BBC hosted a debate between Corbyn and Smith yesterday. The audience included supporters of both men and a group of undecided. At the end  the undecideds were asked to choose a side. They all moved to the Corbyn side, as did a couple of Smith supporters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/37104865
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 18, 2016, 01:02:13 PM
The BBC hosted a debate between Corbyn and Smith yesterday. The audience included supporters of both men and a group of undecided. At the end  the undecideds were asked to choose a side. They all moved to the Corbyn side, as did a couple of Smith supporters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/37104865
Hardly surprising, Owen Smith has even less going for him than Corbyn! 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2016, 01:55:12 PM
Hardly surprising, Owen Smith has even less going for him than Corbyn!

Remember these faces; only two had the guts to challenge Corbyn;

(http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/z/zzzShadowCabinetMembersWhoJumpedShip270616_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-407267)
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 18, 2016, 04:22:54 PM
Remember these faces; only two had the guts to challenge Corbyn;

(http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/z/zzzShadowCabinetMembersWhoJumpedShip270616_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-407267)
I thought you thought they were all scheming backstabbers only in it for the power and the glory, what's with the guts thing?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2016, 06:42:17 PM
I thought you thought they were all scheming backstabbers only in it for the power and the glory, what's with the guts thing?

Well it was either guts or self-delusion, take your pick. Those who led the chicken coup kept their heads down, particularly Benn. He didn't have the satisfaction of resigning though, did he?

It is understood that the shadow foreign secretary called fellow MPs over the weekend to suggest that he will ask Corbyn to stand down if there is significant support for a move against the leader. He has also asked shadow cabinet colleagues to join him in resigning if the Labour leader ignores that request. A spokesman for Benn declined to comment.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/hilary-benn-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-eu-referendum-brexit
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 19, 2016, 01:21:17 AM
Smith wants go negotiate with isis

 @)(++(*

Best stick a very thick collar on first, made of iron dear

Either it might be kaput convert to islam or head off

No time to think about tories and labour then rofl
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 19, 2016, 01:24:25 AM
Remember these faces; only two had the guts to challenge Corbyn;

(http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/z/zzzShadowCabinetMembersWhoJumpedShip270616_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-407267)

whens the muppet show coming back to itv?

See alfie? corbyns given everyone a run for their money
Every s..m book has been thrown on him, only to be proved a s..m book..not sure why you hate him so much he hasnt actually had a chance yet to implemeng anything and lets face it everything the tories have implemented has harmed all people and the whole country, but at least the tosser and fake cameron has run off with his tails between his legs
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 19, 2016, 12:04:56 PM
whens the muppet show coming back to itv?

See alfie? corbyns given everyone a run for their money
Every s..m book has been thrown on him, only to be proved a s..m book..not sure why you hate him so much he hasnt actually had a chance yet to inplement anything and lets face it everything the tories have implemented has harmed all people and the whole country, but at least the tosser and fake cNefin has run off with his tails between his legs
not quite sure what half your post means but I don't HATE Corbyn (I actually think he's rather endearing in a funny old way) but I DO think he's a disaster for the Labour party.  As for negotiating with ISIS, I think you'll find that Corbyn is keen on talking with terrorists rather than hunting them down and killing them or detaining them for years.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 19, 2016, 12:32:13 PM
not quite sure what half your post means but I don't HATE Corbyn (I actually think he's rather endearing in a funny old way) but I DO think he's a disaster for the Labour party.  As for negotiating with ISIS, I think you'll find that Corbyn is keen on talking with terrorists rather than hunting them down and killing them or detaining them for years.

History tells us over and over again that today's terrorists are tomorrow's politicians. Unless you talk to them how is a solution ever going to be found? Hunting them down and killing them just encourages others to take up the fight. Northern Ireland only settled down when the very real oppression of the Catholic population was accepted and a workable solution found.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 19, 2016, 06:51:57 PM
History tells us over and over again that today's terrorists are tomorrow's politicians. Unless you talk to them how is a solution ever going to be found? Hunting them down and killing them just encourages others to take up the fight. Northern Ireland only settled down when the very real oppression of the Catholic population was accepted and a workable solution found.

Kenyatta, Mandela, Grivas, Begin to name but a few. Malaya (MNLA) had two goes at terrorism but lost both times..... &%+((£
The Malayan and NI matters had a common thread..........giving people the vote.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 19, 2016, 08:22:10 PM
not quite sure what half your post means but I don't HATE Corbyn (I actually think he's rather endearing in a funny old way) but I DO think he's a disaster for the Labour party.  As for negotiating with ISIS, I think you'll find that Corbyn is keen on talking with terrorists rather than hunting them down and killing them or detaining them for years.

Which ones is he so keen on talking to and having no desire to hunt down and punish...presumably those in the uk? Where he has or has he? Power to do so? So which ones?

As for my post, which bit wasnt too clear barring spellos?

As for beng a disaster for the party, not at all, best thng since sliced bread
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 20, 2016, 04:59:34 AM
History tells us over and over again that today's terrorists are tomorrow's politicians. Unless you talk to them how is a solution ever going to be found? Hunting them down and killing them just encourages others to take up the fight. Northern Ireland only settled down when the very real oppression of the Catholic population was accepted and a workable solution found.
ddYou should have adressed your post to Mercury who scoffed at the idea of Owen Davis negotiating wth ISIS.  As we all know that this is Jeremy's position also, and that he is a man of great courage with much sympathy for the plight of those tormented in the Middle East especially by the evil Israelis, so perhaps one day when he is Prime Minister he will be able to sit down and negotiate with ISIS, and all the the other terrorist groups in the world and make the world a better place...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 20, 2016, 05:09:16 AM
Corbyn's first negotiation with ISIS and BOKO Haram

Corbyn: hi friends, we want to help you feel better about stuff so that you stop beheading Christian priests, abducting children, raping and enslaving them, blowing up innocent French people out at a gig, mowing them down in trucks, etc so what can we do for you?
Terrorists: We want Britain to become a Fundamentalist Islamic state governed by us and ruled by Sharia Law, to behead your royal family, all the judges, heads of business, army, navy and airforce, lords, ladies, teachers, vicars, bishops etc
Corbyn:  oookay, that's a big ask but I'll just have a chat with Diane and Tom, and John and we'll see how we can accompdate your wishes, whilst keeping all non Muslim fundamentalists in the country sweet, how's that sound?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 20, 2016, 05:28:10 AM
Which ones is he so keen on talking to and having no desire to hunt down and punish...presumably those in the uk? Where he has or has he? Power to do so? So which ones?

As for my post, which bit wasnt too clear barring spellos?

As for beng a disaster for the party, not at all, best thng since sliced bread
In the event of a Paris style incident, with terrorists running rampage and killing dozens of innocent people on the streets and in clubs, Jeremy has clearly stated that he does NOT support a shoot to kill policy, preferring instead I presume to negotiate a non-violent resolution to the situation.

Best thing since sliced bread, my arse!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 21, 2016, 01:46:07 AM
In the event of a Paris style incident, with terrorists running rampage and killing dozens of innocent people on the streets and in clubs, Jeremy has clearly stated that he does NOT support a shoot to kill policy, preferring instead I presume to negotiate a non-violent resolution to the situation.

Best thing since sliced bread, my arse!

Making things up again are we? So sad

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 21, 2016, 03:38:51 AM
Making things up again are we? So sad
you're very ill-informed.

Mr Corbyn said: "I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.
"I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.
"But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."

BBC News
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2016, 10:35:52 AM
you're very ill-informed.

Mr Corbyn said: "I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.
"I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.
"But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."

BBC News

Corbyn doesn't seem to indulge in sound bites. Not every question has a simple answer. Perhaps he understands that?

Reasonable force is the norm in the UK, which can include shooting to kill.

The problem is not whether you specifically allow shooting to kill; any shooting has the potential to be fatal. The problem is shooting the right people at the right time because mistakes can't be corrected.


Why shooting to wound doesn't make sense scientifically, legally or tactically
https://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-wound

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 21, 2016, 01:22:34 PM
Corbyn doesn't seem to indulge in sound bites. Not every question has a simple answer. Perhaps he understands that?

Reasonable force is the norm in the UK, which can include shooting to kill.

The problem is not whether you specifically allow shooting to kill; any shooting has the potential to be fatal. The problem is shooting the right people at the right time because mistakes can't be corrected.


Why shooting to wound doesn't make sense scientifically, legally or tactically
https://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-wound
Blah blah blah.  As a potential PM I want to know how Corbyn would react in a terrorist situation and what measures he would be willing to take to counter terrorist action.  I have a pretty good idea that Theresa May would have no compunction whatsoever about issung a shoot to kill order to try and bring about a swift conclusion to the attack.  What I don't have, based on what he has already said on the subject and his general position, is any confidence at all that Jeremy would issue such swift and decisive orders.  What about you,  or don't you really care either way?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2016, 03:46:01 PM
Blah blah blah.  As a potential PM I want to know how Corbyn would react in a terrorist situation and what measures he would be willing to take to counter terrorist action.  I have a pretty good idea that Theresa May would have no compunction whatsoever about issung a shoot to kill order to try and bring about a swift conclusion to the attack.  What I don't have, based on what he has already said on the subject and his general position, is any confidence at all that Jeremy would issue such swift and decisive orders.  What about you,  or don't you really care either way?

It's no use dismissing the facts with 'Blah blah blah'

What makes you think anyone would have time for a check with Corbyn or May if an attack was taking place? Would the Met say 'Hold it, lads, while we try to get hold of May in Italy'?

As I understand it the police are able to use reasonable force. That obviously includes killing so long as it can be justified. Normally they aim for the torso when shooting, except for suspected suicide bombers when they aim for the head. Clearly both are likely to kill. It's unrealistic to expect a guaranteed outcome once shooting begins.

Politicians can say what they like to curry favour with voters, but the police decide what to aim at on the day.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 21, 2016, 04:04:48 PM
It's no use dismissing the facts with 'Blah blah blah'

What makes you think anyone would have time for a check with Corbyn or May if an attack was taking place? Would the Met say 'Hold it, lads, while we try to get hold of May in Italy'?

As I understand it the police are able to use reasonable force. That obviously includes killing so long as it can be justified. Normally they aim for the torso when shooting, except for suspected suicide bombers when they aim for the head. Clearly both are likely to kill. It's unrealistic to expect a guaranteed outcome once shooting begins.

Politicians can say what they like to curry favour with voters, but the police decide what to aim at on the day.
In extreme terrorist situations yes I would expect the PM and / or home secretary to be informed immediately, why ever not?  Police will not shoot to kill if there are no laws to protect them in the event that they do shoot someone.  Jeremy does not approve of shoot to kill as a resolution to trrrorist situations.  He thought the shooting of Osama Bin Laden was as much of a tragedy as 9/11.  Incredible.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 21, 2016, 04:55:08 PM
It's no use dismissing the facts with 'Blah blah blah'

What makes you think anyone would have time for a check with Corbyn or May if an attack was taking place? Would the Met say 'Hold it, lads, while we try to get hold of May in Italy'?

As I understand it the police are able to use reasonable force. That obviously includes killing so long as it can be justified. Normally they aim for the torso when shooting, except for suspected suicide bombers when they aim for the head. Clearly both are likely to kill. It's unrealistic to expect a guaranteed outcome once shooting begins.

Politicians can say what they like to curry favour with voters, but the police decide what to aim at on the day.

It is called intellectual well researched and well reasoned argument ..... 8(0(*
I can imagine some on here were up in arms in the 1960s because Harold Wilson did not allow the UK to be sucked into the Vietnam war.

Is 9/11 becoming a lower threshold in Godwin's Rule ?   8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 21, 2016, 07:20:22 PM
It is called intellectual well researched and well reasoned argument ..... 8(0(*
I can imagine some on here were up in arms in the 1960s because Harold Wilson did not allow the UK to be sucked into the Vietnam war.

Is 9/11 becoming a lower threshold in Godwin's Rule ?   8(0(*

Only on this forum.  8((()*/

What a pity Blair was unable to do the same as Wilson.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 21, 2016, 10:09:30 PM
you're very ill-informed.

Mr Corbyn said: "I'm not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general - I think that is quite dangerous and I think can often can be counterproductive.
"I think you have to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you can, there are various degrees for doing things as we know.
"But the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing."

BBC News

Its good to include WHOLE quotes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34840708
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 21, 2016, 10:14:13 PM
In extreme terrorist situations yes I would expect the PM and / or home secretary to be informed immediately, why ever not?  Police will not shoot to kill if there are no laws to protect them in the event that they do shoot someone.  Jeremy does not approve of shoot to kill as a resolution to trrrorist situations.  He thought the shooting of Osama Bin Laden was as much of a tragedy as 9/11.  Incredible.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/31/what-jeremy-corbyn-actually-said-about-osama-bin-ladens-death-being-a-tragedy-5369339/

Youre a victim to succumbng to msm soundbites,(or not) Id enlarge your reading base to get a more balanced view
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 22, 2016, 03:57:22 AM
So, all Corbyn fans are perfectly happy that in the event of a major terrorist incident in the UK PM Corbyn and his govt would deal with it, and the subsequent fall-out in the most effective and uncompromising ways?  Well that's fine then, personally From what I've heard of the man I wouldn't trust him to do so, that is why he would not get my vote, but your choice, you vote for him if you think he is the safest pair of hands the country has to offer.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 22, 2016, 04:04:25 AM
What greatly amuses me about the Corbyn debates on this forum is that I don't get the sense that there is a single one of his staunch defenders on here who would actually vote for him in a general election, but of course winning elections doesn't matter does it?  As long as amiable, humble, saintly old Jeremy can keep posing questions in Parliament on behalf of Sonia from Scunthorpe and Pete from Peterbrough then that is just as effective as governing the country, isn't it?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2016, 07:36:29 AM
What greatly amuses me about the Corbyn debates on this forum is that I don't get the sense that there is a single one of his staunch defenders on here who would actually vote for him in a general election, but of course winning elections doesn't matter does it?  As long as amiable, humble, saintly old Jeremy can keep posing questions in Parliament on behalf of Sonia from Scunthorpe and Pete from Peterbrough then that is just as effective as governing the country, isn't it?

You do understand that he only people who can vote for Corbyn in a general election are his constituents, don't you?

The way our 'democracy' works is that a few marginal constituencies decide who governs. There are 'safe seats' where the voters would vote in a chimp if it wore the right colour rosette. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 22, 2016, 07:44:22 AM
You do understand that he only people who can vote for Corbyn in a general election are his constituents, don't you?

The way our 'democracy' works is that a few marginal constituencies decide who governs. There are 'safe seats' where the voters would vote in a chimp if it wore the right colour rosette.
You patronizing tone has been noted.  In return I take it you understand the meanng of the word "would", and the hypothetical nature of my question?  Maybe not...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2016, 08:06:57 AM
You patronizing tone has been noted.  In return I take it you understand the meanng of the word "would", and the hypothetical nature of my question?  Maybe not...

Sorry, Alfie. I tend to try to stick to facts, not hypotheses.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 22, 2016, 01:04:44 PM
Amaral
Grime
Trump
Corbyn
????
faites vos jeux in the "Who Will Be The Next Boogah Man Stakes".

Is there a common thread here one wonders?

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2016, 02:00:56 PM
Amaral
Grime
Trump
Corbyn
????
faites vos jeux in the "Who Will Be The Next Boogah Man Stakes".

Is there a common thread here one wonders?

The common thread seems to be that demonising people no longer works [if it ever did]. If anything it increases their support.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 22, 2016, 04:57:45 PM
The common thread seems to be that demonising people no longer works [if it ever did]. If anything it increases their support.  @)(++(*
In what way do you believe I have "demonised" Corbyn and in what way do you believe that me, expressing my genuinely held opinion about the man has not only failed in some way but also actually increased support for the man?  Are you suggesting that by holding this debate with you I have turned you from a non-Corbyn supporter, into a supporter?  Are you furthermore suggesting that expressing a negative opinion about a politician be it Corbyn or Trump equals demonising them,  and that therefore one should simply be quiet on the subject or only say pleasant things about them?  That Donald Trump has such fine hands and is surely a super and successful businessman, whilst Jeremy Corbyn looks very kind and I'd happily let him babysit my kids.  Is that more the sort of observations you think we should be making in a discussion about these politicians?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 22, 2016, 06:33:15 PM
In what way do you believe I have "demonised" Corbyn and in what way do you believe that me, expressing my genuinely held opinion about the man has not only failed in some way but also actually increased support for the man?  Are you suggesting that by holding this debate with you I have turned you from a non-Corbyn supporter, into a supporter?  Are you furthermore suggesting that expressing a negative opinion about a politician be it Corbyn or Trump equals demonising them,  and that therefore one should simply be quiet on the subject or only say pleasant things about them?  That Donald Trump has such fine hands and is surely a super and successful businessman, whilst Jeremy Corbyn looks very kind and I'd happily let him babysit my kids.  Is that more the sort of observations you think we should be making in a discussion about these politicians?

I wasn't actually thinking of you Alfie, I was thinking of the media.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mercury on August 22, 2016, 11:16:16 PM
I wasn't actually thinking of you Alfie, I was thinking of the media.
There seems to be somene new every day doing it, he really must be the new wicked wizard of the west or is it east, cant remember my wizard of oz lol
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 23, 2016, 03:05:18 AM
I wasn't actually thinking of you Alfie, I was thinking of the media.
You were responding to a comment by Alice which was a list of men that have come under criticism specifically on this forum - I don't believe Grime has ever been demonised in the press for instance.  It's clear Alice's dig was at posters on this forum, not the media however you chose to interpret it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 23, 2016, 09:12:37 AM
You were responding to a comment by Alice which was a list of men that have come under criticism specifically on this forum - I don't believe Grime has ever been demonised in the press for instance.  It's clear Alice's dig was at posters on this forum, not the media however you chose to interpret it.

My list might differ somewhat to be fair, although Grime took some hits over Jersey, all of which mentioned his connection to the McCann case.

I caught sight of Amaral and immediately thought of the support he received despite the media slating him. No-one posting on here has the power to affect public opinion imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 23, 2016, 10:14:31 AM
You were responding to a comment by Alice which was a list of men that have come under criticism specifically on this forum - I don't believe Grime has ever been demonised in the press for instance.  It's clear Alice's dig was at posters on this forum, not the media however you chose to interpret it.

I thought I was on ignore?
It was a general pop about how people are turned into Boogah Men on the basis not of what they actually said or did but on the basis of what someone else said they said or did mostly as reported the press then modified by the reader according to his prejudices.
The most notorious of which became known as "The Rivers of Blood Speech". Guess what he did not say?
It is worth a read in the light of today's shenanigans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

But back to the plot with Mr Corbyn.
He is the legally elected leader of the Labour Party which also is HM Opposition. Just what is the beef ?
Whether he is electable as PM or not is irrelevant, see the bit in bold italics in the preceding sentence.
Trying to second guess what he would do now as PM, if elected, based on what you think he might have done 40 years ago is a bit futile but entertaining for the rest of us.



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 23, 2016, 12:04:05 PM
I thought I was on ignore?
It was a general pop about how people are turned into Boogah Men on the basis not of what they actually said or did but on the basis of what someone else said they said or did mostly as reported the press then modified by the reader according to his prejudices.
The most notorious of which became known as "The Rivers of Blood Speech". Guess what he did not say?
It is worth a read in the light of today's shenanigans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

But back to the plot with Mr Corbyn.
He is the legally elected leader of the Labour Party which also is HM Opposition. Just what is the beef ?
Whether he is electable as PM or not is irrelevant, see the bit in bold italics in the preceding sentence.
Trying to second guess what he would do now as PM, if elected, based on what you think he might have done 40 years ago is a bit futile but entertaining for the rest of us.

It was perfectly obvious to me that Ed Milliband wasn't going to win a general election, but he didn't get the flack Corbyn has suffered. Was that because in the unlikely event that he did win he was seen as 'a safe pair of hands'?

Corbyn's intentions are very clear; nationlisation, council house building, more union influence, public ownership of the NHS. Shock horror! It would take the Tory's ages to reverse all that next time they were elected. He must be stopped!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 23, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
Corbyn has had a message of support from Bernie Sanders in the US. The US  media portrayed him as unelectable also, but Sanders said the reality was that he was electable but posed a threat to the establishment.

Seems he agrees with my suspicions as to  Corbyn has been so comprehensively attacked by all sides.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/bernie-sanders-backs-jeremy-corbyn-in-labour-leadership-race/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 23, 2016, 01:25:09 PM
It was perfectly obvious to me that Ed Milliband wasn't going to win a general election, but he didn't get the flack Corbyn has suffered. Was that because in the unlikely event that he did win he was seen as 'a safe pair of hands'?

Corbyn's intentions are very clear; nationlisation, council house building, more union influence, public ownership of the NHS. Shock horror! It would take the Tory's ages to reverse all that next time they were elected. He must be stopped!
Miliband got huge amounts of flack from the media.  He was a laughing stock by the time of the GE, you must have a very short memory.  But at least he was someone cabable of leading a united party, one who had not voted against his own party throughout his political life.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 23, 2016, 01:28:26 PM
Corbyn has had a message of support from Bernie Sanders in the US. The US  media portrayed him as unelectable also, but Sanders said the reality was that he was electable but posed a threat to the establishment.

Seems he agrees with my suspicions as to  Corbyn has been so comprehensively attacked by all sides.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/bernie-sanders-backs-jeremy-corbyn-in-labour-leadership-race/
If he was electable why did Hillary get 3 million more votes...?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on August 23, 2016, 01:42:28 PM
It was perfectly obvious to me that Ed Milliband wasn't going to win a general election, but he didn't get the flack Corbyn has suffered. Was that because in the unlikely event that he did win he was seen as 'a safe pair of hands'?

Corbyn's intentions are very clear; nationlisation, council house building, more union influence, public ownership of the NHS. Shock horror! It would take the Tory's ages to reverse all that next time they were elected. He must be stopped!
What are Corbyn's very clear intentions with regard The EU??
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on August 23, 2016, 02:38:34 PM
What are Corbyn's very clear intentions with regard The EU??

I would suggest b....r all.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 23, 2016, 03:47:09 PM
Miliband got huge amounts of flack from the media.  He was a laughing stock by the time of the GE, you must have a very short memory.  But at least he was someone cabable of leading a united party, one who had not voted against his own party throughout his political life.

BTW, Alice should know that yes he is on ignore bucause he's an irritating WUM, but when his posts get quoted by others and referenced then sadly I have no option but to see and read them.

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 24, 2016, 10:06:29 AM
Voting record.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=1065
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 24, 2016, 08:40:43 PM
I thought I was on ignore?
It was a general pop about how people are turned into Boogah Men on the basis not of what they actually said or did but on the basis of what someone else said they said or did mostly as reported the press then modified by the reader according to his prejudices.
The most notorious of which became known as "The Rivers of Blood Speech". Guess what he did not say?
It is worth a read in the light of today's shenanigans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

But back to the plot with Mr Corbyn.
He is the legally elected leader of the Labour Party which also is HM Opposition. Just what is the beef ?
Whether he is electable as PM or not is irrelevant, see the bit in bold italics in the preceding sentence.
Trying to second guess what he would do now as PM, if elected, based on what you think he might have done 40 years ago is a bit futile but entertaining for the rest of us.

You lasted long yorg....I was put on ignore after about 10 posts...but every now and then I would slip off...what is the point of being ignored if your not being ignored, answers n a post card...

The leader of the labour party will either win or lose a general election and we have a way to go folks!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on August 29, 2016, 11:55:43 AM
Virgin trains leaking like a sieve apparently;

Virgin broke own rules by releasing Corbyn CCTV, document shows
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/28/virgin-broke-rules-releasing-corbyn-cctv-document#top
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on December 11, 2016, 07:22:24 PM
ROD LIDDLE
december 11 2016, 12:01am, the sunday times
Bravo, Screaming Lord Corbyn. You alienate the 52% — and the 48%


Share
Save
How did they do it? Sometimes you just have to stand back and admire political brilliance when you see it. Marvel at the cunning and ruthlessness, the clarity of vision. I am talking of course about the Labour Party, which, back in the summer, was presented with the perfect political opportunity. A government in disarray, nay collapse. The Liberal Democrats, which had seemingly ceased to exist. And Ukip leaderless and with its rival candidates punching the hell out of each other.

And from that position, a few short months ago, Labour has managed — incredibly — to render itself absolutely irrelevant to everybody. It is a remarkable achievement. When you consider how divided was our country over the referendum, the feat of alienating both remainers and leavers took some doing — but Jeremy Corbyn was up to the task.

The remainers know that Labour is both confused and hamstrung in its attitude to Brexit and will not fight their corner. They know too that the party’s leadership is, at best, equivocal about the EU and likes only the stuff that everybody else hates — that is, mass immigration, regulations and bureaucracy.

The leavers, meanwhile, had already deserted by late summer, appalled that countless Labour MPs representing constituencies that were more than two-thirds in favour of getting out had campaigned against their constituents’ interests. And so the Labour Party has nothing whatsoever to offer anybody on the biggest political issue of the past 50 years. Yay! Result!

I don’t suppose you were hugely surprised that Labour performed so abjectly in the Sleaford and North Hykeham by-election, coming fourth and with a vote more than 7,000 down on its 2015 performance (which was disastrous, but now looks positively vibrant.)


Even Labour wasn’t surprised. Some benighted sap was wheeled out to exult in the fact that the Labour candidate hadn’t actually lost his deposit, as its perfectly decent candidate did the week before in the Richmond Park by-election.

That’s how high they’re setting the bar — we’re just about beating the loonies! No. Look in the mirror. It is not that you are beating the loonies. You have become the loonies. You are right down there with the single-issue nutjobs, the mirthless Lord Sutch and that old bloke who was worried about road safety, Lieutenant-Commander Bill Boaks. Opposition parties are meant to win elections. Not break open the bubbly because they’ve saved £500.

Given the divisions in the party and the hilariously ineffectual leadership, even this vote is at risk
It is not just about Brexit. It goes far deeper. Labour opposed Brexit, albeit half-heartedly, because it has come to despise the views of almost all of the people who used to vote for the party — the working class, the northerners, the Welsh, people of the Midlands. This is true of both the Corbynistas and the Blairites, to be fair. In the referendum the party preferred to go along with that comparatively tiny tranche of their voter base, the affluent metropolitan liberals.

But given the divisions in the party and the hilariously ineffectual leadership, even this vote is at risk. It has already been outflanked by the Lib Dems; don’t be surprised if the Greens start beating it too. Labour has become a party that does not know what it stands for, aside from radical chic posturing. The Cuban solidarity stuff, for example. Or out of snobbery banning from its conference McDonald’s, which employs 85,000 and provides cheap, tasty food that people — other than Labour Party members — enjoy. You know, ordinary people.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Tim Invictus on February 08, 2017, 05:13:17 PM
It is not good for the country to have a dishevelled, terrorist supporting, radical, anti-white, anti- British leader of one of the two major parties! Corbyn was an embarrassing back bencher for decades who the Labour leadership pretended didn't exist and then he becomes leader of Labour! You cant make that shit up! Corbyn makes old Michael Foot look like a Saville Row tailor's dummy! Dumby?

Corbyn is hari-kari for Labour and although I am Conservative, that isn't good for a balanced society!   
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 05:06:46 PM
It is not good for the country to have a dishevelled, terrorist supporting, radical, anti-white, anti- British leader of one of the two major parties! Corbyn was an embarrassing back bencher for decades who the Labour leadership pretended didn't exist and then he becomes leader of Labour! You cant make that shit up! Corbyn makes old Michael Foot look like a Saville Row tailor's dummy! Dumby?

Corbyn is hari-kari for Labour and although I am Conservative, that isn't good for a balanced society!
I never thought I'd agree with a post written by Tim Invictus, I feel slightly queasy now. 

So, how do we all think our man is getting on now?  Who can see Corbyn in the PM role in 2020?  But that's not the b all and end all is it, I remember now.... it's not about votes, and it's not about winning, it's about being a decent, honest bloke, not like yer usual scumbag politician...kind of.... &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on February 26, 2017, 07:16:15 PM
I never thought I'd agree with a post written by Tim Invictus, I feel slightly queasy now. 

So, how do we all think our man is getting on now?  Who can see Corbyn in the PM role in 2020?  But that's not the b all and end all is it, I remember now.... it's not about votes, and it's not about winning, it's about being a decent, honest bloke, not like yer usual scumbag politician...kind of.... &%+((£

I think Copeland might prove to be the proverbial straw.  Corby means nought to anyone outside London and as for Chakrabarti and Abbott, what a pair of friggin tossers...    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 01, 2017, 10:20:58 PM
I think Copeland might prove to be the proverbial straw.  Corby means nought to anyone outside London and as for Chakrabarti and Abbott, what a pair of friggin tossers...    @)(++(*

WE have no real bona fide opposiiton...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 18, 2017, 01:18:48 PM
If Corbyn could get his act together he may get a sniff at actual power.  Is it possible that St Theresa has overestimated her support in the country?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on April 18, 2017, 01:52:17 PM
If Corbyn could get his act together he may get a sniff at actual power.  Is it possible that St Theresa has overestimated her support in the country?
@)(++(* Not a chance.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 18, 2017, 10:58:22 PM
If Corbyn could get his act together he may get a sniff at actual power.  Is it possible that St Theresa has overestimated her support in the country?

I don't think there was anything saintly about her today. In Louis L'Amour books she would be described as a low down dirty bushwhacker after today's performance. Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson would have been proud of her.
If Mr Corbyn could be as ungentlemanly as Viscount Nelson and nick Mrs May's clothes as it were then...................... &%+((£
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Jean-Pierre on April 19, 2017, 03:01:09 PM
I don't think there was anything saintly about her today. In Louis L'Amour books she would be described as a low down dirty bushwhacker after today's performance. Vice Admiral Horatio Lord Nelson would have been proud of her.
If Mr Corbyn could be as ungentlemanly as Viscount Nelson and nick Mrs May's clothes as it were then...................... &%+((£

Sorry Alice - just trying to get the image of our Jeremy in the leather trousers and kitten heels out of my head......
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2017, 10:26:18 PM
Sorry Alice - just trying to get the image of our Jeremy in the leather trousers and kitten heels out of my head......

He would need a new hat that is for sure!
The Money Supermarket Strutters went through my mind as I typed it  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on April 20, 2017, 07:30:17 PM
Looking forward to watching his resignation speech on 9th June...  8(>((
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mrswah on April 23, 2017, 10:46:35 AM
I cannot imagine that Jeremy Corbyn stands any chance of winning on 8th June.

However, he could well do better than we think.  His supporters, whatever we may think of them, are enthusiastic and will  use their votes, many people who always vote Labour will still vote Labour , and he will have support among at least some of the people desperately trying to make ends meet in depressed areas of the country.

On the other hand, many people who normally vote Conservative may not bother to turn out, believing that a Conservative victory with a decent majority is a foregone conclusion. We have had an election in the last two years, followed by a referendum. Many people are not interested in politics, and will have had enough.

I keep hearing that Corbyn will be a disaster for the economy. I don't know if they are right, as I am no economist,  but for many people, the economy is not the most important issue. Jobs, the NHS and social care are.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: steve_trousers on April 26, 2017, 08:01:35 PM
Hi all, my 2 pence is Mr Corbyn comes across as a nice man with many qualities, well intentioned etc however he and his party will be disastrous for this country. I think over the next 6 weeks of campaigning, when the undecided voters actually see what they're getting, the conservative landslide will be even greater than current polling indicates.

For example his lunatic policy to scrap trident at a time when the world is more belligerent than ever and laying off loyal Scots. The lunacy of a boycott of Israel which will only hurt the Palestinian people they are naively trying to help. His populist social reforms that require an increase in taxes on the rich which are proven over time to actually have the opposite effect of decreasing the tax intake.
Then there's the disarray in his party over brexit. Or how about the shadow cabinet after all those resignations. Diane Abbott as home secretary anyone ? Emily Thornberry as foreign secretary ? hmmmm....

Labour are going to be crushed and those that can't bear to vote tory will end up voting liberal or some minor party like that if they can be bothered at all.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on April 26, 2017, 08:18:09 PM
Hi all, my 2 pence is Mr Corbyn comes across as a nice man with many qualities, well intentioned etc however he and his party will be disastrous for this country. I think over the next 6 weeks of campaigning, when the undecided voters actually see what they're getting, the conservative landslide will be even greater than current polling indicates.

For example his lunatic policy to scrap trident at a time when the world is more belligerent than ever and laying off loyal Scots. The lunacy of a boycott of Israel which will only hurt the Palestinian people they are naively trying to help. His populist social reforms that require an increase in taxes on the rich which are proven over time to actually have the opposite effect of decreasing the tax intake.
Then there's the disarray in his party over brexit. Or how about the shadow cabinet after all those resignations. Diane Abbott as home secretary anyone ? Emily Thornberry as foreign secretary ? hmmmm....

Labour are going to be crushed and those that can't bear to vote tory will end up voting liberal or some minor party like that if they can be bothered at all.

I think traditional Labour voters feel betrayed by Jeremy Corbyn so probably will abstain as you suggest. I can't see the Lib Dems or UKIP picking up much to be honest.  A definite Tory landslide is on the cards by the looks of it.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 26, 2017, 10:25:55 PM
I think traditional Labour voters feel betrayed by Jeremy Corbyn so probably will abstain as you suggest. I can't see the Lib Dems or UKIP picking up much to be honest.  A definite Tory landslide is on the cards by the looks of it.


Yep! They never saw that one coming and if she pulls it off Labour,LibDem, UKIP and SNP are dead ducks for the next 5 years. Unless you believe Ms Sturgeon has enough support to repeat her incredible last time out performance.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on April 27, 2017, 08:08:19 AM
Boris described Jeremy as a  "mutton-headed, old mugwump".  Can't stand Boris but he's quite astute in his observations on this subject.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 27, 2017, 01:33:56 PM
If Mrs May is returned with a landslide Boris will be for the high jump.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 28, 2017, 09:26:50 PM
If Mrs May is returned with a landslide Boris will be for the high jump.

Yes I think so too. Mrs May once called the Tory Party the nasty party and she should know that from knowing the inner workings and the back stabbers. of which they are a plenty in ALL party politics. She sure will shut up the bemoaners if she wins landslide AND wave her mandate from the people to carry on brexiting... I am atching the French to see if they are next to leave.

Tricky nicky is so hell bent on independance she has mis read  the Scottish public mood. I cannot understand why she is 'fighting' for independance from UK but happy to have no say in the EU, well one vote worth nothing- and I can guarantee the ignoramouses who'run' the councils and NHS will force through as law every dictat sent... 40 thouand per day or something lol.  So Nicky is asking who do you want to rule you, I hope she get the same answer!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mrswah on April 28, 2017, 11:32:33 PM
I think traditional Labour voters feel betrayed by Jeremy Corbyn so probably will abstain as you suggest. I can't see the Lib Dems or UKIP picking up much to be honest.  A definite Tory landslide is on the cards by the looks of it.

Quite possibly!!

I would imagine, however, that many people in Labour held constituencies might still vote Labour, if they like their own MP,  despite Corbyn.   I can also imagine the Lib Dems gaining from people who are disillusioned with Labour---traditional Labour voters are not going to find it easy to vote Conservative, although, as you suggest, many just wont bother voting.  Is there still any point in voting UKIP, now that we are definitely "Brexiting"? 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on April 28, 2017, 11:53:53 PM
Quite possibly!!

I would imagine, however, that many people in Labour held constituencies might still vote Labour, if they like their own MP,  despite Corbyn.   I can also imagine the Lib Dems gaining from people who are disillusioned with Labour---traditional Labour voters are not going to find it easy to vote Conservative, although, as you suggest, many just wont bother voting.  Is there still any point in voting UKIP, now that we are definitely "Brexiting"?

I think UKIP have had their day and have been destroyed by their ownn success.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 30, 2017, 11:56:55 PM
I think UKIP have had their day and have been destroyed by their ownn success.


I almost agree there John.  It is dire that we do not have a proper democracy! I will be voting on policy not personality or looks , but I have to say If an Independent is on  the list they are getting my vote.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: puglove on May 02, 2017, 11:27:28 PM
Oh dear god. Diane Abbott today. I have ACTUALLY weed my pants!

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on May 07, 2017, 10:52:45 AM
Watched Corbyn this morning on the box.

His delusion knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alfie on May 08, 2017, 05:40:23 PM
There's a serious possibility of this idiot not resigning after taking his party to its worst defeat at the polls in decades....  8(8-))
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on May 10, 2017, 04:17:55 PM
There's a serious possibility of this idiot not resigning after taking his party to its worst defeat at the polls in decades....  8(8-))

Decent opposition is always good for democarcy so I would like to see someone electable take over from the unelectable JC eg Keir Starmer.  Hopefully this will happen shortly after 8th June when the Tories win with a thumping majority!

Meanwhile for the next 5 years we can rely upon the able and delightful Mays to see us through Brexit and beyond  ?{)(**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S99-3C16SA
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 10, 2017, 09:48:08 PM
Decent opposition is always good for democarcy so I would like to see someone electable take over from the unelectable JC eg Keir Starmer.  Hopefully this will happen shortly after 8th June when the Tories win with a thumping majority!

Meanwhile for the next 5 years we can rely upon the able and delightful Mays to see us through Brexit and beyond  ?{)(**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S99-3C16SA

In 1983(?) Michael Foot had a landslide against him. Upon Mr Foot's resignation the Labour Party voted in Neil Kinnock who went on to become the UK's longest ever serving leader of the opposition !?. Smooth move...so it could be worse than it is now, indeed it was.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: The Buccaneer on May 13, 2017, 11:35:46 AM

Given that one has to be about 60 to remember the utter mismanagement by Labour and the Unions in the late 1970s, not forgetting Michael Foots 'longest suicide note in history' manifesto, and then the last shambles during Brown'sterm of office.

The unfettered huge immigration deliberately encouraged as a political tool for Labour, how can anyone think that Corbyn, who avowedly wants to return the country to the 1970s, stands any chance ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mrswah on May 13, 2017, 05:42:55 PM
Given that one has to be about 60 to remember the utter mismanagement by Labour and the Unions in the late 1970s, not forgetting Michael Foots 'longest suicide note in history' manifesto, and then the last shambles during Brown'sterm of office.

The unfettered huge immigration deliberately encouraged as a political tool for Labour, how can anyone think that Corbyn, who avowedly wants to return the country to the 1970s, stands any chance ?

Well, I am over 60, and I look back on the 1970s with some nostalgia-------I was young then!!

It really wasn't that bad----mind you, that isn't to say I'm going to be voting for Corbyn!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2017, 06:33:32 AM
Where's the massive defeat for Corbyn and Labour then?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on June 09, 2017, 08:14:01 AM
Where's the massive defeat for Corbyn and Labour then?  @)(++(*

It looks like many young voters came out unexpectedly.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 09, 2017, 11:41:43 AM
Where's the massive defeat for Corbyn and Labour then?  @)(++(*

No "massive" defeat for JC just another defeat for Labour  8((()*/
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on June 09, 2017, 02:30:31 PM
No "massive" defeat for JC just another defeat for Labour  8((()*/


....and the Cons without a majority and no mandate.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 09, 2017, 03:42:33 PM
It looks like many young voters came out unexpectedly.

It looks like a 68 year old with 'old Labour' values and policies was able to inspire young people to take an interest and vote. Who'd a thunk it? Not the media and not the 'experts' they trot out.

I don't really care at my age, but I'm glad people are realising that they don't have to believe what MP's tell them any more. They have a clear choice now, not just more of the same with a different label.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: sadie on June 10, 2017, 12:39:38 AM
It looks like many young voters came out unexpectedly.

Well their votes were effectively bought, weren't they?

Corbyn promised free University .. so no debts for the students, nor financial pain for the parents.  Very clever move, he grabbed two age groups at the same time


This Country has mind boggling debt already, thanks Mr Blair. 
Gawd knows who we would be selling ourselves to if Jeremy Corbyn got in with all his expendature.   His financial expert Diane Abbott hasn't even bothered to do her sums and doesn't know how much all the give aways will cost.


I am of the opinion that we are in such debt now that despite all austerity measures, it will be unlikely that we will ever, ever, be able to pay our debts off %#&%4%

Someone with expert financial and political knowledge, please come in and cheer me up
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on June 10, 2017, 12:45:46 AM
Well their votes were effectively bought, weren't they?

Corbyn promised free University .. so no debts for the students, nor financial pain for the parents.  Very clever move, he grabbed two age groups at the same time


This Country has mind boggling debt already, thanks Mr Blair. 
Gawd knows who we would be selling ourselves to if Jeremy Corbyn got in with all his expendature.   His financial expert Diane Abbott hasn't even bothered to do her sums and doesn't know how much all the give aways will cost.


I am of the opinion that we are in such debt now that despite all austerity measures, it will be unlikely that we will ever, ever, be able to pay our debts off %#&%4%

Someone with expert financial and political knowledge, please come in and cheer me up

I think you are spot on Sadie, Jeremy Corbyn has bought votes and would bankrupt the country if he ever came to power...God forbid!

Theresa May on the other hand did herself no favours recently with her latest attacks on pensioners and those on low income, she only has herself to blame for what has now happened.

The UK is now staring down the barrel of an imminent EU exit with a PM who will lead a hung Parliament, a worse scenario no-one could ever contemplate.  God help us all indeed!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2017, 09:17:03 AM
Why all the despondency? Politicians have predicted doom and gloom for years in order to make us accept their unpopular policies, but we're all still here living our lives.

Whatever people think of Corbyn's political aims or methods he got his message across despite the herculean efforts made to discredit him. People heard, approved and voted Labour. He judged it perfectly.

On the other hand May did not get her message across. She made a huge error of judgement and will pay the price before 2017 is out imo.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: John on June 10, 2017, 09:22:12 AM
Why all the despondency? Politicians have predicted doom and gloom for years in order to make us accept their unpopular policies, but we're all still here living our lives.

Whatever people think of Corbyn's political aims or methods he got his message across despite the herculean efforts made to discredit him. People heard, approved and voted Labour. He judged it perfectly.

On the other hand May did not get her message across. She made a huge error of judgement and will pay the price before 2017 is out imo.

She will pay the price but so will the rest of us?  She needed a strong hand in order to negotiate Brexit but now she looks fragile and weak.  Her enforced cosy arrangement with Ulster's DUP is bound to end in tears and do absolutely nothing for cross community relations in the province.  What a bloody mess!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: stephen25000 on June 10, 2017, 09:24:41 AM
Well the referendum comes down to Cameron.

This latest farce comes down to May's ego.

She will have to go, and it won't be in 5 years time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 10, 2017, 10:37:32 AM
She will pay the price but so will the rest of us?  She needed a strong hand in order to negotiate Brexit but now she looks fragile and weak.  Her enforced cosy arrangement with Ulster's DUP is bound to end in tears and do absolutely nothing for cross community relations in the province.  What a bloody mess!

I don't know if the population will be affected adversely by all this or not. As a pensioner I noticed the Tories attention turning towards me to feed their obsession with cuts and I'm pleased that isn't going to happen.

May's abrasive attitude towards Europe may not have been the best way to enter Brexit negotiations.

There is, as yet, no arrangement with the DUP, and it's extremely unpopular.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-results-dup-conservative-theresa-may-petition-deal-northern-ireland-a7783021.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 10, 2017, 04:33:59 PM
The wider electorate should learn there is no such thing as a free lunch.
When I turned sixty I was suddenly entitled to free prescriptions and two hundred squids as a heating allowance all paid for by the state at a time when I was working, paying tax at the higher rate, and had no dependants. It was like having a two grand pay rise. Being a good old socialist boy I said " 'old up chief this isn't right someone else should have this I don't need it. See the accent on the "need". Being realistic the 200 quid heating allowance wouldn't even make a dent in my annual expenditure on fishing permits but to some frail octogenerian less fortunate than I it means keeping warm and lit up for two months in the winter and they should have it. "Give it to charity then if you feel that strongly about it" came the retort.....yeah right Nobby riiiight. The state should not expect me to seek out that person; the state should  never have given me the bloody money in the first place as there was no justification.
No! I think it should be means tested and dealt with properly at source provided there is a net benefit to the exchequer after proper administration of the system. At forty eight I was a single parent when there was no state hand out for child care, it took the fat end of 15% off the  top line of my salary; don't whinge that's the hand you've been dealt play it. With all the bloody hand outs going on I doubt anyone on much less than £40k pa is actually a net contributor to the exchequer by way of direct taxation. As the number of income tax payers is declining then there are four options. Do less in the state sector, increase direct taxation levels, increase sneaky taxes or borrow. No political party will ever hold its hand up to that little lot so they will do the next best thing .... lie.
end of rant... ?{)(**

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: mrswah on June 11, 2017, 12:58:03 PM
Most of us were wrong when we said Corbyn was unelectable. That includes me.

I am not surprised that the young people came out in droves to vote for him. Whatever we might think about left wing governments, our young people have never experienced one.

Perhaps people are getting fed up with "middle of the road" governments----and they want to see either Right Wing, or Left Wing????
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 11, 2017, 01:02:43 PM
Well their votes were effectively bought, weren't they?

Corbyn promised free University .. so no debts for the students, nor financial pain for the parents.  Very clever move, he grabbed two age groups at the same time


This Country has mind boggling debt already, thanks Mr Blair. 
Gawd knows who we would be selling ourselves to if Jeremy Corbyn got in with all his expendature.   His financial expert Diane Abbott hasn't even bothered to do her sums and doesn't know how much all the give aways will cost.


I am of the opinion that we are in such debt now that despite all austerity measures, it will be unlikely that we will ever, ever, be able to pay our debts off %#&%4%

Someone with expert financial and political knowledge, please come in and cheer me up


Sorry I can't cheer you up on this Sadie, it really is dire. JC was using old labour tatics -rich against poor but with all their policies throughout this century they have over taxed the low paid to pay for those who don't want to work or give it abroad to wealthy dictators and Terrorist oganisatins under the flags of 'humanitarian aid'.

Blair put unseen tax on everything -fuel, insurance, travel etc, and DID nothing about the really wealthy-tax invadors. The last labour administration left a note saying no money left... We had growth in immigration and cuts in welfare to the needy.

The Tories just followed through to try and put it right but couldn't as they also  let the very wealthy go free and placed the burden on the  low paid and welfare claiming needy.

Therre are no winners here. nothing will change; the very wealthy (who are not affected in a negative way) will always run with the agenda no matter what 'party' is in power.

JC is not the god of the poor- let's not kid ourselves people. And didn't Diane make a marvelous recovery after her 'illness' hmm.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on June 11, 2017, 06:01:49 PM
It looks like a 68 year old with 'old Labour' values and policies was able to inspire young people to take an interest and vote. Who'd a thunk it? Not the media and not the 'experts' they trot out.

I don't really care at my age, but I'm glad people are realising that they don't have to believe what MP's tell them any more. They have a clear choice now, not just more of the same with a different label.

its just that the young were taken in by the rubbish corbyn promised...older voters had more sense and have seen it all before. I dont rate May highly but corbyn is  far far far worse
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 11, 2017, 07:52:00 PM
its just that the young were taken in by the rubbish corbyn promised...older voters had more sense and have seen it all before. I dont rate May highly but corbyn is  far far far worse

Yes, the media are saying that, aren't they? All the clever folk who couldn't see what was happening under their noses are now desperately trying to explain it while refusing to answer when asked why they got it so wrong.  @)(++(*

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on June 11, 2017, 11:04:21 PM
Yes, the media are saying that, aren't they? All the clever folk who couldn't see what was happening under their noses are now desperately trying to explain it while refusing to answer when asked why they got it so wrong.  @)(++(*

they got it so wrong because they understimated the gullibility of the younger voters..

Corby is a Marxist
Both China and Russia have abandoned Marxism and are doing rather well .
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 12, 2017, 09:46:29 AM
they got it so wrong because they understimated the gullibility of the younger voters..

Corby is a Marxist
Both China and Russia have abandoned Marxism and are doing rather well .

Corbyn and Momentum noticed that younger voters were disengaged with the political process. They focused on them, informed them and motivated them. An amazing achievement.  8@??)(
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Tim Invictus on June 14, 2017, 10:14:57 PM
 8((()*/ anyone actually notice IRA Corbyn lost by 50 odd seats ...... he only 'did well' compared to the car crash disaster he was expected to be! His 'success' was May's fault anyway..... their manifesto was abysmal and their campaign pathetic. That along with her wooden charisma bypass all helped IRA Corbyn do just slightly worse than Gordon Brown!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 15, 2017, 06:26:51 AM
8((()*/ anyone actually notice IRA Corbyn lost by 50 odd seats ...... he only 'did well' compared to the car crash disaster he was expected to be! His 'success' was May's fault anyway..... their manifesto was abysmal and their campaign pathetic. That along with her wooden charisma bypass all helped IRA Corbyn do just slightly worse than Gordon Brown!

Well, calling him names will stop him. Or didn't the media and the 'experts' do that and no-one took any notice?  @)(++(*
The Tories were in trouble very quickly, before May revealed her manifesto or her woodenness. People were bombarded with propaganda against Labour but voted for them anyway. That's why May's still PM. The Tories know very well he'd win a second election because those who believed the media and wrote Labour off would return to them. .



Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on June 27, 2017, 10:24:46 AM
Corbyn continues to gain ground;

http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-overtakes-may-in-pm-suitability-poll-for-first-time-10924618
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Tim Invictus on July 10, 2017, 11:30:59 PM
Well, calling him names will stop him. Or didn't the media and the 'experts' do that and no-one took any notice?  @)(++(*
The Tories were in trouble very quickly, before May revealed her manifesto or her woodenness. People were bombarded with propaganda against Labour but voted for them anyway. That's why May's still PM. The Tories know very well he'd win a second election because those who believed the media and wrote Labour off would return to them. .

Another poor deluded fellow acting like IRA Corbyn won the election!

I am glad IRA Corby wasn't routed though .... as long as that scruffy Lenin wannabe sits on the opposition benches with car crash Abbot at his side, Labour will never win anything!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 14, 2017, 06:16:13 PM
Another poor deluded fellow acting like IRA Corbyn won the election!

I am glad IRA Corby wasn't routed though .... as long as that scruffy Lenin wannabe sits on the opposition benches with car crash Abbot at his side, Labour will never win anything!


Jeez man your knowledge of British politics is as appalling as your syntax. I presume you are trapping off for effect?
Labour survived Foot, Hattersley, Kinnock et al. to put in Tony Blair who seemd to hang about for an eternity.
Before you grab the wrong end of the stick, old stick, I am not a labour supporter  8(>((
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 14, 2017, 08:59:08 PM
Corbyn and Momentum noticed that younger voters were disengaged with the political process. They focused on them, informed them and motivated them. An amazing achievement.  8@??)(

They were making promises they could not keep!  it is because of a labour government and their EU luvvies immigration policy, the 'young' are getting shoddy watered down education, no access to affordable social housing- unless they have a child, if you are infertile tough luck, and NHS waiting lists are  so long  people really are dying to get admitted- no pun there! They raised stealth  taxes, did nothing about tax evasion and there was no improvements in any of the public services, they also sent soldiers not equipped properly to die in a pointless war!

Let's keep it real people. 8((()*/ 8(0(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 25, 2017, 06:04:19 PM
They were making promises they could not keep!  it is because of a labour government and their EU luvvies immigration policy, the 'young' are getting shoddy watered down education, no access to affordable social housing- unless they have a child, if you are infertile tough luck, and NHS waiting lists are  so long  people really are dying to get admitted- no pun there! They raised stealth  taxes, did nothing about tax evasion and there was no improvements in any of the public services, they also sent soldiers not equipped properly to die in a pointless war!

Let's keep it real people. 8((()*/ 8(0(*

Are you talking about Blair's 'new' Labour? A very different view of what Labour should be than Corbyn's.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 16, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
G-Unit, as a supporter and defender of Corbyn on this thread, if not in real life, what is your view of Corbyn’s refusal to work with thr government to deliver Brexit unless “no deal” is taken off the table?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Sunny on January 16, 2019, 08:23:00 PM
G-Unit, as a supporter and defender of Corbyn on this thread, if not in real life, what is your view of Corbyn’s refusal to work with thr government to deliver Brexit unless “no deal” is taken off the table?

Would it be that simple to work with Jeremy Corbyn. I though all he wanted was a General Election to be honest.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 16, 2019, 08:30:31 PM
Would it be that simple to work with Jeremy Corbyn. I though all he wanted was a General Election to be honest.
Theresa May appealed to all leaders of parliamentary parties to work with her to deliver Brexit and Corbyn has refused.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on January 16, 2019, 10:12:11 PM
They were making promises they could not keep!  it is because of a labour government and their EU luvvies immigration policy, the 'young' are getting shoddy watered down education, no access to affordable social housing- unless they have a child, if you are infertile tough luck, and NHS waiting lists are  so long  people really are dying to get admitted- no pun there! They raised stealth  taxes, did nothing about tax evasion and there was no improvements in any of the public services, they also sent soldiers not equipped properly to die in a pointless war!

Let's keep it real people. 8((()*/ 8(0(*

Respect
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 16, 2019, 10:18:26 PM
Some people may be so shallow, just as some people may be shallow enough to support Cameron because he referred to immigrants as a 'swarm'. This made me wonder why McVey is being attacked?

Esther McVey is committed to and defends sanctioning benefit claimants. She defended the policy at a select committee inquiry into sanctions. The case of a diabetic who died after his electricity was cut off because he was sanctioned and had no money was raised. His sister said 'diabetics can't wait two weeks for a hardship payment to be authorised'

A Labour MP said;

Once again Esther McVey has shown a stunning disregard for the mountain of evidence provided during this inquiry from individuals, academics and organisations who have seen first-hand, or worse experienced, the effect of this government’s inhumane approach to sanctioning, especially against vulnerable people.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/grieving-relative-confronts-dwp-minister-esther-mcvey-after-benefit-sanctions

McVey seems to lack empathy for the disadvantaged of the UK.
You seem to have changed your mind about her recently!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 17, 2019, 10:36:07 AM
You seem to have changed your mind about her recently!

Not at all. Politicians seak on a range of subjects and are sometimes wrong and sometimes right.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 17, 2019, 07:30:41 PM
Not at all. Politicians seak on a range of subjects and are sometimes wrong and sometimes right.
You must find it incredibly difficult to decide who to vote for.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 17, 2019, 09:08:17 PM
You must find it incredibly difficult to decide who to vote for.

I have a degree in Politics which I chose because I wanted to understand the subject. I belong to no political party and vote for whoever I think will best represent the area where I live. If I don't have a preferred candidate I vote against the one who will do the most harm in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 17, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
I have a degree in Politics which I chose because I wanted to understand the subject. I belong to no political party and vote for whoever I think will best represent the area where I live. If I don't have a preferred candidate I vote against the one who will do the most harm in my opinion.
Would you vote for Esther McVey if she stood in your constituency?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2019, 09:28:10 AM
Would you vote for Esther McVey if she stood in your constituency?

That would depend on her campaign, but I disagree with the Conservative's habit of making life harder for the poorest members of society.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 09:29:56 AM
That would depend on her campaign, but I disagree with the Conservative's habit of making life harder for the poorest members of society.
Which no deal Brexit will almost certainly do of course.  And your views on arch Leaver Corbyn insisting on the removal of No Deal from the table?  Insanity, surely?!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2019, 09:50:12 AM
Which no deal Brexit will almost certainly do of course.  And your views on arch Leaver Corbyn insisting on the removal of No Deal from the table?  Insanity, surely?!

How do you know a no deal Brexit would make the poor poorer? As I said, Corbyn's priority is to force a general election. Is he an arch Leaver?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 10:36:27 AM
How do you know a no deal Brexit would make the poor poorer? As I said, Corbyn's priority is to force a general election. Is he an arch Leaver?
Because nearly all the experts say so, and we all know what store you set by them!  Plus it stands to reason IMO if prices go up, EU companies withdraw, jobs in industry are lost, farms and small businesses  go bust owing to withdrawal of subsidies, lack of foreign workers, increased tarriffs on imports and exports, etc.  The poorest and most vulnerable in society will be harmed, hell isn’t that what St Jeremy of Corbyn has said, and why he doesn’t want there to be a no deal, or are you suggesting he’s just playing political games to get into power?  Have you ever checked out his voting record on Europe btw?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Sunny on January 18, 2019, 01:01:20 PM
Because nearly all the experts say so, and we all know what store you set by them!  Plus it stands to reason IMO if prices go up, EU companies withdraw, jobs in industry are lost, farms and small businesses  go bust owing to withdrawal of subsidies, lack of foreign workers, increased tarriffs on imports and exports, etc.  The poorest and most vulnerable in society will be harmed, hell isn’t that what St Jeremy of Corbyn has said, and why he doesn’t want there to be a no deal, or are you suggesting he’s just playing political games to get into power?  Have you ever checked out his voting record on Europe btw?

I heard yesterday confirmation that Jeremy Corbyn is a "leaver" and that he is only calling for so called "no deal" to be taken off the table as he knows that it will split the Conservatives apart. Nothing to do with him actually wanting a deal or to remain.   Just party politicking as usual.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2019, 01:16:31 PM
Because nearly all the experts say so, and we all know what store you set by them!  Plus it stands to reason IMO if prices go up, EU companies withdraw, jobs in industry are lost, farms and small businesses  go bust owing to withdrawal of subsidies, lack of foreign workers, increased tarriffs on imports and exports, etc.  The poorest and most vulnerable in society will be harmed, hell isn’t that what St Jeremy of Corbyn has said, and why he doesn’t want there to be a no deal, or are you suggesting he’s just playing political games to get into power?  Have you ever checked out his voting record on Europe btw?

So 'if' all those things happen, the poor will be poorer? I don't think it's quite so definite. Losing foreign workers might push wages up, for example. I haven't studied Corbyn's views because he seems very ambivalent so I'm not sure what they are.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Sunny on January 18, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
So 'if' all those things happen, the poor will be poorer? I don't think it's quite so definite. Losing foreign workers might push wages up, for example. I haven't studied Corbyn's views because he seems very ambivalent so I'm not sure what they are.

And that is the way he likes it G-Unit.  8(>((
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
So 'if' all those things happen, the poor will be poorer? I don't think it's quite so definite. Losing foreign workers might push wages up, for example. I haven't studied Corbyn's views because he seems very ambivalent so I'm not sure what they are.
How do you think pushing wages up is going to effect prices of goods and services?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2019, 07:55:54 PM
How do you think pushing wages up is going to effect prices of goods and services?

They may rise in the sectors which are competing for scarcer workers. In 2015 EU ctizens worked in; (most popular first)

Households. (as nannies and au pairs)
Accomodation and food. (hotels and restaurants)
Admin and Manufacturing
Transport
Construction

Most EU unskilled workers are working for private households, hotels ans restaurants. Rising prices in those sectors are unlikely to impact on the poor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41176699
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 08:03:33 PM
They may rise in the sectors which are competing for scarcer workers. In 2015 EU ctizens worked in; (most popular first)

Households. (as nannies and au pairs)
Accomodation and food. (hotels and restaurants)
Admin and Manufacturing
Transport
Construction

Most EU unskilled workers are working for private households, hotels ans restaurants. Rising prices in those sectors are unlikely to impact on the poor.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41176699
Oh.  What about all the low skilled jobs in the food and farming industry that Brits aren’t interested in doing?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 08:10:12 PM
Oh look:

“The area that relies on EEA workers the most is food and drink manufacturing - they accounted for about one quarter of staff in 2016”

So if wages rise in this sector this won’t affect prices you dont think?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 08:47:09 PM
“Modelling potential economic impacts of Brexit

We need to understand how the potential long-term effects of Brexit could affect people living on low incomes. JRF has been working with Cambridge Econometrics to model the impact of a new UK-EU relationship based on a range of potential scenarios. These range from the ‘Norway’ model (staying in the single market) through to a no deal relationship.

The evidence suggests that an increasingly distant trading relationship with the EU will mean higher non-tariff barriers, lower net migration, lower inward investment, and – in a no deal scenario – tariffs for EU-UK trade.

Introducing new costs for trade with our primary trading partner inevitably leads to lower trade and economic output – which would affect prices, employment, and real wages. The modelling suggests that by 2030 the average low-income household would need to find an additional £480 per year to maintain the same standard of living (in 2016/17 prices) due to price inflation caused by Brexit under a no deal scenario.

Effect on poverty

So, what would this mean for poverty in the UK? Our analysis finds that wages aren’t likely to rise by enough to offset the effects of inflation, so real wages will fall which will be felt by people across the income spectrum.

In addition to wages, for many low-income households benefits and tax credits are vital for maintaining a decent standard of living, as they are already stuck on low pay that doesn’t allow them to cover their costs. How badly they are hit by rising prices will depend on whether the Government chooses to raise benefits and tax credits to match inflation.

If the Government uprated all benefits and tax credits in line with inflation – in contrast to its current policy where they are frozen – we find that poverty would, if anything, be lower because low-income households would be more protected against rising inflation than higher-income households. If the Government does not do this, it will leave low-income households falling further behind, with incomes shrinking as costs rise, leading to higher numbers of families trapped in poverty”.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on January 18, 2019, 09:35:46 PM
Oh.  What about all the low skilled jobs in the food and farming industry that Brits aren’t interested in doing?

The jobs WE ARE TOLD that Brits aren't interested in doing.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 09:43:33 PM
The jobs WE ARE TOLD that Brits aren't interested in doing.
Oh?  You don’t think it’s true then?  You think EU workers came over here and stole jobs from British workers desperate to pull carrots out of the Lincolnshire soil is that it?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Sunny on January 18, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Oh look:

“The area that relies on EEA workers the most is food and drink manufacturing - they accounted for about one quarter of staff in 2016”

So if wages rise in this sector this won’t affect prices you dont think?

I understand if wages for some will rise then their disposable income will also rise so those who receive any pay rise will spend more of this on goods and services, hopefully locally.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
I understand if wages for some will rise then their disposable income will also rise so those who receive any pay rise will spend more of this on goods and services, hopefully locally.
My understanding is if farmers (or any employer in the food industry) has to pay higher wages to get fruit and veg harvested or food processed in abbatoirs and factories then there are two risks: one going bust, two putting up cost prices.  Of course once trade deals have been done which won’t happen immediately we could be flooded with cheap low quality imports from the USA for example which again threatens local production and puts low quality food into the food chain which does nothing for the health of those who are living in poverty.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 18, 2019, 10:59:13 PM
Oh?  You don’t think it’s true then?  You think EU workers came over here and stole jobs from British workers desperate to pull carrots out of the Lincolnshire soil is that it?

Oh yes! and the new look European carrot puller looks rather like this:
https://www.grimme.com/uk/producttypes/selbstfahrende-erntetechnik-kartoffel/varitron-470


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2019, 11:23:48 PM
Oh yes! and the new look European carrot puller looks rather like this:
https://www.grimme.com/uk/producttypes/selbstfahrende-erntetechnik-kartoffel/varitron-470
Better send the details to this lot:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-crops-eu-farm-workers-brexit-referendum-rot-manpower-recruitment-numbers-a8194701.html
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2019, 07:16:26 AM

“Theresa May would win a working majority if a general election were held today, according to YouGov modelling for The Times that correctly predicted the 2017 hung parliament.

Labour is pushing for a general election but the new research suggests that this would backfire, with Jeremy Corbyn’s party losing 12 seats and the Tories gaining four”.

Time for Jeremy and his Marxist pals to wake up and smell the coffee...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Sunny on February 12, 2019, 01:15:25 PM
“Theresa May would win a working majority if a general election were held today, according to YouGov modelling for The Times that correctly predicted the 2017 hung parliament.

Labour is pushing for a general election but the new research suggests that this would backfire, with Jeremy Corbyn’s party losing 12 seats and the Tories gaining four”.

Time for Jeremy and his Marxist pals to wake up and smell the coffee...

I agree. Jeremy is the best thing to have happened to the Tories for years and I am not a Tory voter.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Carana on February 12, 2019, 04:19:43 PM
I agree. Jeremy is the best thing to have happened to the Tories for years and I am not a Tory voter.

Really?

I find him to be on some kind of far-left cloud. No better than those on their far-right clouds.

I'd prefer the moderates of both Lab and Con, and Lib Dems, to get together and just work out something that may not be perfect, but will steer the UK away from the imminent iceberg.

This mess is costing a fortune.

The vulnerable won't end up better protected if those who contribute to supporting their needs can't pay into the system because they themselves don't have jobs or businesses any more.


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 12, 2019, 06:33:06 PM
I agree. Jeremy is the best thing to have happened to the Tories for years and I am not a Tory voter.
He’s effectively turned this country into a one party state, just not the one party he was hoping for.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Carana on February 14, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
My understanding is if farmers (or any employer in the food industry) has to pay higher wages to get fruit and veg harvested or food processed in abbatoirs and factories then there are two risks: one going bust, two putting up cost prices.  Of course once trade deals have been done which won’t happen immediately we could be flooded with cheap low quality imports from the USA for example which again threatens local production and puts low quality food into the food chain which does nothing for the health of those who are living in poverty.

Yes, and that could be a trade-off depending on what the UK wanted to be able to export. I posted a list of US demands recently. From memory, lowering phytosanitary standards; food labelling standards, e.g. on additives; uncapping prices on pharmaceuticals... Long list. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Carana on February 14, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Wrong thread. Sorry...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 17, 2019, 03:43:37 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1088370/brexit-news-nigel-farage-brexit-party-ukip-new-party

Nige for PM? 

looks like he is back in the political arena. whoah!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Carana on February 17, 2019, 03:48:02 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1088370/brexit-news-nigel-farage-brexit-party-ukip-new-party

Nige for PM? 

looks like he is back in the political arena. whoah!

What's his plan or isn't that useful to know?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 17, 2019, 03:55:31 PM
What's his plan or isn't that useful to know?

Why not join and ask him? he has a radio show you could phone in and find out or just sit and slag him off behind a screen...
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 17, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Why not join and ask him? he has a radio show you could phone in and find out or just sit and slag him off behind a screen...
Quite, slagging people off behind a screen is jolly unpleasant behaviour isn’t it Miss Taken?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 11:42:21 AM
At last!  Good on 'em....

Seven MPs have resigned from the Labour Party in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and anti-Semitism.

They are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 18, 2019, 02:22:44 PM
At last!  Good on 'em....

Seven MPs have resigned from the Labour Party in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and anti-Semitism.

They are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey.

It has been a long time coming ... is it too late though?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
At last!  Good on 'em....

Seven MPs have resigned from the Labour Party in protest at Jeremy Corbyn's approach to Brexit and anti-Semitism.

They are: Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey.

The gang of seven.  Off into oblivian rather quicker than the gang of four imo.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Carana on February 18, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Is the timing significant?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 06:28:36 PM
The gang of seven.  Off into oblivian rather quicker than the gang of four imo.
Why do you think that?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 18, 2019, 06:56:30 PM
The gang of seven.  Off into oblivian rather quicker than the gang of four imo.

There may be a resonance of support amongst the grass roots of the Thatcher years for the seven ... bearing in mind the resistance to Militant entryism of that time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 18, 2019, 07:36:35 PM
There may be a resonance of support amongst the grass roots of the Thatcher years for the seven ... bearing in mind the resistance to Militant entryism of that time.

There's nothing to support. No Party, no leader, no policies. The gang of four at least put those things in place. People had heard of them too.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 18, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
There's nothing to support. No Party, no leader, no policies. The gang of four at least put those things in place. People had heard of them too.
Different times.  Writing them off on day one may prove a little premature.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 12:36:22 AM
There's nothing to support. No Party, no leader, no policies. The gang of four at least put those things in place. People had heard of them too.

Perhaps they will gain momentum with time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 19, 2019, 10:42:43 AM
Perhaps they will gain momentum with time.

At the moment they are a protest group. We know what they don't like but not what they want. I don't see where a protest group fit into our system of party politics. Perhaps our MP's will split and form snaller groups like these because in respect of Brexit party politics hasn't managed to reach a concensus. If that happens then our voting system also needs to change to reflect the diversity of views.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 19, 2019, 10:46:36 AM
At the moment they are a protest group. We know what they don't like but not what they want. I don't see where a protest group fit into our system of party politics. Perhaps our MP's will split and form snaller groups like these because in respect of Brexit party politics hasn't managed to reach a concensus. If that happens then our voting system also needs to change to reflect the diversity of views.

It seems to me they are protesting because corbyn is unelectable.... Once he's gone and the party moves towards the centre the party will be reunited
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
At the moment they are a protest group. We know what they don't like but not what they want. I don't see where a protest group fit into our system of party politics. Perhaps our MP's will split and form snaller groups like these because in respect of Brexit party politics hasn't managed to reach a concensus. If that happens then our voting system also needs to change to reflect the diversity of views.
It has already been tried in the voting systems incumbent with the introduction of devolution.  I doubt very much if the advent of the magnificent seven has as much to do with Corbyn's demonstrable brexit ineptitude as it does with his cohort's take over.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 11:03:31 AM
It seems to me they are protesting because corbyn is unelectable.... Once he's gone and the party moves towards the centre the party will be reunited
Maybe the signed 'loyalty pledge' (did you ever!) was a bridge too far.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 19, 2019, 12:57:00 PM
It seems to me they are protesting because corbyn is unelectable.... Once he's gone and the party moves towards the centre the party will be reunited

Two days ago Labour were level with the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/support-for-labour-and-tories-neck-and-neck-new-poll-suggests-a4068871.html

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2019, 02:23:30 PM
Two days ago Labour were level with the Conservatives in the opinion polls.
 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/support-for-labour-and-tories-neck-and-neck-new-poll-suggests-a4068871.html

Given the current situation into which Her Majesty's Government have steered the country on their watch any Loyal Opposition worthy of it's salt ... in my opinion ... could have been expected to have been streets ahead in opinion polls (for what they are worth).
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Angelo222 on February 19, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
Given the current situation into which Her Majesty's Government have steered the country on their watch any Loyal Opposition worthy of it's salt ... in my opinion ... could have been expected to have been streets ahead in opinion polls (for what they are worth).

Just goes to show how poor Jeremy Corbyn's rating is around the country when he couldn't even take advantage of the Tory chaos.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 19, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
Quite, slagging people off behind a screen is jolly unpleasant behaviour isn’t it Miss Taken?

I said so didn't I?

Caranna was asking me about someone elses ideas/theory  . Why not get it from the horses mouth?

Nothing wrong with asking questions- it is better if you have access to that person/s  to ask directly. Or use the media they use to challenge them in the even they are untouchable... ^*&&
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 19, 2019, 10:30:20 PM
There's nothing to support. No Party, no leader, no policies. The gang of four at least put those things in place. People had heard of them too.

W
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 19, 2019, 10:32:58 PM
There's nothing to support. No Party, no leader, no policies. The gang of four at least put those things in place. People had heard of them too.


One has to wonder why now?  if they were so affected by the anti Semitism why not leave when it was a huge thing?

I never got to read about those claims. Is not agreeing with Israeli land grabbing policy an anti Semite badge now? is that the same as racism?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 07:23:02 AM

One has to wonder why now?  if they were so affected by the anti Semitism why not leave when it was a huge thing?

I never got to read about those claims. Is not agreeing with Israeli land grabbing policy an anti Semite badge now? is that the same as racism?

As I understand it there are Jews and there are Zionist Jews. A lot of people equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism, but they're not the same thing. I think the Zionists are the ones in favout of land-grabbing.

I don't see what these MP's are thinking, but at least two of them have nothing to lose, having had votes of no confidence passed against them by their constituences.

What people need to remember is that Labour is a left-wing party. It was dragged to the right by Blair and Brown in order to get elected. The Conservatives have been very right-wing imo with theit attacks on public expenditure and it's that which made people turn to a left-wing alternative.

Corbyn's policies are very different to those of 'New Labour' which these MP's preferred.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 07:28:42 AM
As I understand it there are Jews and there are Zionist Jews. A lot of people equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism, but they're not the same thing. I think the Zionists are the ones in favout of land-grabbing.

I don't see what these MP's are thinking, but at least two of them have nothing to lose, having had votes of no confidence passed against them by their constituences.

What people need to remember is that Labour is a left-wing party. It was dragged to the right by Blair and Brown in order to get elected. The Conservatives have been very right-wing imo with theit attacks on public expenditure and it's that which made people turn to a left-wing alternative.

Corbyn's policies are very different to those of 'New Labour' which these MP's preferred.
There are just Jews.  Zionist is a term of abuse used by Anti- semites who object to the existence of the state of Israel.  IMO. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
There are just Jews.  Zionist is a term of abuse used by Anti- semites who object to the existence of the state of Israel.  IMO.

Historically that isn't so, unless you think the United Nations were anti-semetic.

n 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed Resolution 3379, which designated Zionism as "a form of racism and racial discrimination". The resolution was repealed in 1991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 06:12:51 PM
Historically that isn't so, unless you think the United Nations were anti-semetic.

n 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed Resolution 3379, which designated Zionism as "a form of racism and racial discrimination". The resolution was repealed in 1991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
What is your quote supposed to prove?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 20, 2019, 06:26:31 PM
As I understand it there are Jews and there are Zionist Jews. A lot of people equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism, but they're not the same thing. I think the Zionists are the ones in favout of land-grabbing.

I don't see what these MP's are thinking, but at least two of them have nothing to lose, having had votes of no confidence passed against them by their constituences.

What people need to remember is that Labour is a left-wing party. It was dragged to the right by Blair and Brown in order to get elected. The Conservatives have been very right-wing imo with theit attacks on public expenditure and it's that which made people turn to a left-wing alternative.

Corbyn's policies are very different to those of 'New Labour' which these MP's preferred.

New Labour performed the magic trick of being capable of forming majority governments.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 06:34:34 PM
The latest YOUGOV poll puts voter intention at 38 Conservatives 26 Labour.  Jeremy is doing a marvellous job isn’t he?!
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2019, 06:58:05 PM
What is your quote supposed to prove?

That Zionism is not the same as Jewishness.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 20, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
That Zionism is not the same as Jewishness.
How does it do that?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 24, 2019, 07:32:16 AM
Excellent article here regarding “The Jewish Question”.

Yet Corbyn still thinks he is our leading anti-racist
February 24 2019, 12:01am,
Dominic Lawson

Perhaps his slogan needs to be rewritten: ‘For the many, not the Jew’


‘Not the Jews, again!” This, roughly, must be what Jeremy Corbyn and his closest associates are thinking, as a clutch of MPs quit on the grounds that Labour’s leadership has abjectly failed to root out anti-semitic bullying and abuse within the party.

A fortnight ago the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, responded to Luciana Berger’s complaints about the attempt to deselect her — one official in her Liverpool Wavertree constituency denounced her as a “disruptive Zionist” — by demanding she show her own loyalty. Now that this Jewish MP has turned the tables by walking out in disgust — declaring herself “ashamed” of what has happened to a movement her family has been associated with for almost a century — Corbyn’s left-hand man has hastily changed tone.

Moving from threat to contrition with a speed that invites cynicism, McDonnell admitted the party needed to conduct a “massive listening exercise” to address the concerns of its (rapidly decreasing) Jewish membership. Echoing this, Labour’s representative on last Thursday’s Question Time, Andy McDonald, told the BBC audience that anti-semitism in the party was a “hugely difficult issue which we are addressing”.

That’s awfully good of them. But these belated admissions fail to answer the first and most important question. Just why does Labour now find the filth of anti-semitism to be such an intractable problem within its ranks? And the truth (which McDonnell will never admit) is it is a direct consequence of the leadership of his best mate, Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn’s consuming passion over decades has been the cause of the Palestinian people: he regards the post-Holocaust creation of a Jewish homeland in 1948 to have been not a blessing but a curse — and a colonialist curse, at that. Hence his furious resistance to signing Labour up to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-semitism: for months he refused to accept the clause that said one example of anti-semitism was the claim that the Jewish state was “a racist endeavour”.

You can see Jezza’s problem. He has spent decades on platforms with people who habitually denounce the existence of Israel in precisely those terms. Indeed, he has welcomed to the House of Commons and claimed as his friends Hamas, an organisation that embeds that monstrous forgery, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in its charter, and is sworn not just to eliminate the state of Israel but Jews wherever they live.

Corbyn, in his own defence, argues he has always criticised anti-semitism and down the years has signed a number of parliamentary motions to that effect. The accusation that he is racist is said to have made him deeply miserable. His entire sense of identity is based on the view that he is the country’s leading anti-racist; it must be mental torture for such a man to be denounced as a racist himself.

But I suspect he doesn’t see the Jews as in any sense a race. In this country, at least, they — we — are white. And, on average, better off than non-Jews. This leads to a peculiar form of double standard among a type of left-winger. The sort described in these pages last year by David Baddiel: he had been told by a “progressive friend” that while it was vile to call people of colour the n-word, it was less so to refer to Jews as “yids”. When Baddiel asked for the basis of this distinction, he got the reply: “Because Jews are rich.”

Actually, there are poor Jews as well as rich ones, but that’s not the point. This is the bit where the hard left are prey to the classic anti-semitic tropes: that “the Jews” are manipulative financial bloodsuckers, exploiters of the masses. And it is the hard left (such as former Militant members) who have flooded back into the Labour Party to support Corbyn and McDonnell, both of whom fought against the expulsion of Militant in the 1980s.

Of course, this indestructible prejudice is also endemic on the far right, which is why some people move effortlessly from one to the other: they find the same comforting conspiracy theory about Jewish capitalists pulling the strings of governments to oppress the workers. Karl Marx was of this opinion.

Thus Corbyn thought it unexceptionable to defend the artist whose East End mural depicting grotesque hook-nosed bankers playing Monopoly on the backs of the poor was removed after complaints by locals. Those locals were mocked by the artist as “older white Jewish folk [who] had an issue with me portraying their beloved Rothschild or Warburg etc as the demons they are”. It was Luciana Berger who questioned a Facebook post by Corbyn defending the mural. Initially, she got no response. Only when she went public last March, tweeting the image and Corbyn’s endorsement of it, did the Labour leader express “regret”. He claimed a sort of invincible ignorance — he hadn’t appreciated the anti-semitic nature of the imagery.

This episode helps to explain why Liverpool Wavertree wanted the “disruptive Zionist” Berger deselected and why she was so loathed by the party’s leadership. It also explains why one of Corbyn’s staunchest supporters in the parliamentary party, Ruth George, suggested that those of her colleagues who resigned with Berger last week were being funded by “the state of Israel”. Yes, it’s all part of the worldwide Jewish plot to destroy the anti-capitalist leadership of the Labour Party.

I suggested earlier that it was incredulity on the part of that leadership that it could ever be guilty of any form of racism, which prevented it from taking condign action against abusively anti-semitic party members. There is another explanation provided by the chairman of the Jewish Leadership Council, Jonathan Goldstein — who had a tetchy meeting with Corbyn last year. He insists he was told by someone close to the Labour leadership that “they were convinced the perception of anti-semitism would play well for them electorally, that the Jews were part of ‘the few’ and, as oppressors, deserved no protection”. Goldstein adds: “This seemed crazy to me at the time but, as this awful saga drags on and on, maybe that person was right after all.”

It’s a remarkable allegation: that Corbyn and his coterie thought being seen as anti-semitic would mix well with their core message. In other words: for the many, not the Jew. The poll published in last week’s Sunday Times, showing that the anti-semitism row is repelling many Labour voters, is an encouraging refutation of any such sordid calculation.

On the other hand, if this causes a terminal split in the party and extinguishes the hard left’s chance of capturing national power, I think we know whom they will blame above all. The Jews, again.

dominic.lawson@sunday-times.co.uk

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
It's a debate around which emotions run high. It's also obviously true that being a Zionist and being Jewish are not the same thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

It's been very difficult to have any reasonable discussions about the actions of the state of Israel because anyone critical of them has tended to be accused of anti-Semetosm, anti-Zionism or both.

The U.S. Congress is split on passing a law against anti-Semitism, a law which would jail Americans for 20 years for the crime of criticizing Israel. Anyone criticizing Israel’s war against Palestine gets accused of anti-Semitism, which I consider a red herring to deflect accountability for murder. Just because Jews have been persecuted, doesn’t make their persecution of Palestinians acceptable. Persecution is persecution. It’s always wrong.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/05/30/israeli-atrocities-against-palestinians-and-international-response/

Is it riight to equate criticism of a government to anti-Semetism? Wouldn't that mean that all those criticising the actions of the Iranian government are anti-Persian or anti-Muslim?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 24, 2019, 10:08:01 AM
It's a debate around which emotions run high. It's also obviously true that being a Zionist and being Jewish are not the same thing.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

It's been very difficult to have any reasonable discussions about the actions of the state of Israel because anyone critical of them has tended to be accused of anti-Semetosm, anti-Zionism or both.

The U.S. Congress is split on passing a law against anti-Semitism, a law which would jail Americans for 20 years for the crime of criticizing Israel. Anyone criticizing Israel’s war against Palestine gets accused of anti-Semitism, which I consider a red herring to deflect accountability for murder. Just because Jews have been persecuted, doesn’t make their persecution of Palestinians acceptable. Persecution is persecution. It’s always wrong.
https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/05/30/israeli-atrocities-against-palestinians-and-international-response/

Is it riight to equate criticism of a government to anti-Semetism? Wouldn't that mean that all those criticising the actions of the Iranian government are anti-Persian or anti-Muslim?
There is being critical of the actions of the state of Israel and then there is intolerance for the very existence of that state.  Corbyn has been an active supporter of those who deny Israel’s right to exist all his
political life.  I call that anti-semitic, as do most Jews if you ask them, and surely it is the vtargets of hatred ideology who are best placed to decide whether or not they are victims of it?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 10:54:59 AM
There is being critical of the actions of the state of Israel and then there is intolerance for the very existence of that state.  Corbyn has been an active supporter of those who deny Israel’s right to exist all his
political life.  I call that anti-semitic, as do most Jews if you ask them, and surely it is the vtargets of hatred ideology who are best placed to decide whether or not they are victims of it?

So you agree that equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semetism is a step too far? Yet many Jews hold that opinion. Subjective views can't be the sole measuure of anything imo, be it sexism, racism or anti-Semetism. I'm all for equal treatment for women, but I certainly don't agree with some of the opinions expressed by some women. Is it sensible to campaign to remove the word 'man'  ftom 'woman' and call women 'wo' instead?
https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-fight-the-patriarchy-by-removing-man-from-woman


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 24, 2019, 11:16:46 AM
So you agree that equating criticism of Israel with anti-Semetism is a step too far? Yet many Jews hold that opinion. Subjective views can't be the sole measuure of anything imo, be it sexism, racism or anti-Semetism. I'm all for equal treatment for women, but I certainly don't agree with some of the opinions expressed by some women. Is it sensible to campaign to remove the word 'man'  ftom 'woman' and call women 'wo' instead?
https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-fight-the-patriarchy-by-removing-man-from-woman

criticisn of the Israeli govt is not anti semetic...criticism of israel as a country as a whole...is xenophobic and anti semetic.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on February 24, 2019, 11:21:09 AM
On a more personal note, my stepmother who I didn't like all that much, and who certainly didn't like me, was a Jew.  And when I lived with her as a child she was in permanent fear, to such an extent that she pretended that my half brother wasn't Jewish, thereby depriving him of something I consider to be of importance to him.  But in those days one did as one must.

Israel would never have survived without Zionists.  They didn't just fight.  They turned a desert which the Arabs didn't want, into a land fit to live in.  They picked up the detritus of the death camps and turned it into a working nation, while Palestine looked on.  When the Palestinians weren't trying to slaughter them.

The Zionists were just fighters who were done with being victimised.  How bloody dare they.

Try living with someone who is in fear.  Try being eight years old and seeing what the Germans did.  I will never forget.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 11:35:07 AM
criticisn of the Israeli govt is not anti semetic...criticism of israel as a country as a whole...is xenophobic and anti semetic.

There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 24, 2019, 11:41:14 AM
There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did.

make what illegal..you belong to a group that sees criticising the portuguese police as xenophobic...it isnt
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on February 24, 2019, 11:41:22 AM
There are Americans who disagree with you to the extent that they want to make it illegal. That would be giving the Israeli government carte blanche whatever it did.

Nonsense.  Israel is a State and will defend itself.  And has every right to do so.  The disgrace is that Israel still has to do this.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 24, 2019, 01:28:39 PM
On a more personal note, my stepmother who I didn't like all that much, and who certainly didn't like me, was a Jew.  And when I lived with her as a child she was in permanent fear, to such an extent that she pretended that my half brother wasn't Jewish, thereby depriving him of something I consider to be of importance to him.  But in those days one did as one must.

Israel would never have survived without Zionists.  They didn't just fight.  They turned a desert which the Arabs didn't want, into a land fit to live in.  They picked up the detritus of the death camps and turned it into a working nation, while Palestine looked on.  When the Palestinians weren't trying to slaughter them.

The Zionists were just fighters who were done with being victimised.  How bloody dare they.

Try living with someone who is in fear.  Try being eight years old and seeing what the Germans did.  I will never forget.



I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on February 24, 2019, 01:53:49 PM


I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.

Oh do come on.  The desert was always there.  The Arabs didn't want it because it was too much like hard work.

The Golan Heights are another story.  Would you just sit there if Arabs were raining bombs down on you?

The city of Jerusalem is not a problem.  Jews and Arabs were living in peace there for many a year.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 02:55:08 PM
make what illegal..you belong to a group that sees criticising the portuguese police as xenophobic...it isnt

Do you read my posta?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6559.msg513889#msg513889

Some Americans think that criticising Israel is antu-Semetic and that anyone doing so should be jailed for 20 years.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on February 24, 2019, 02:57:50 PM
Do you read my posta?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6559.msg513889#msg513889

Some Americans think that criticising Israel is antu-Semetic and that anyone doing so should be jailed for 20 years.

No one reads anyone's Posts as far as I can see.  Not even their own on occasions.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 03:10:31 PM


I don't suppose the Arabs who were shunted off THEIR land -their children slaughtered for throwing stones felt a bit annoyed. So what we are saying here is  the Zionists who stole land  slaughtered innocents are the good guys because they were shunted our of THEIR land in Europe and slaughtered.. yes makes sense   doesn't it?

The Zionist are still land grabbing claiming it was given to them by god. A lot of Israeli citizens do not support this land grabbing and leaving Arabs homeless.

It is NOT the arabs fault what happened to the Jews (let us not forget them many millions of non jews) so why treat them so badly.

fundamentalist on both sides would best be eradicated! if the ordinary people want peace.

I do find it difficult to justify recreating a state in the 20th Century which last existed in the 4th Century.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 24, 2019, 05:27:31 PM
I do find it difficult to justify recreating a state in the 20th Century which last existed in the 4th Century.
Do you deny Jews the right to a homeland?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Brietta on February 24, 2019, 05:45:29 PM
Do you deny Jews the right to a homeland?

I have to admit to a certain satisfaction that the homeland they chose was not already occupied by my forebears.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 24, 2019, 07:29:25 PM
Do you deny Jews the right to a homeland?

It's such a unique case. The territiry had been occupied and ruled by others for such a long time  In order for the Jews ro have a homeland the Palestinians lost theirs.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 24, 2019, 08:47:11 PM
It's such a unique case. The territiry had been occupied and ruled by others for such a long time  In order for the Jews ro have a homeland the Palestinians lost theirs.
Do you deny the Jews a homeland?  Is there not a two state solution, and which side is firmly against it, because it denies the right of Israel to exist?
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 07:18:30 AM
Do you deny the Jews a homeland?  Is there not a two state solution, and which side is firmly against it, because it denies the right of Israel to exist?

I understand the Jews wanting a homeland, but being given territory they last ruled in the 4th Century is definitely unusual.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 25, 2019, 07:45:13 AM
I understand the Jews wanting a homeland, but being given territory they last ruled in the 4th Century is definitely unusual.
I see you are unable to give a straight answer. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 08:23:05 AM
I see you are unable to give a straight answer.

It's such a complex subject there isn't  a simple answer. I can understand the Jews wanting a homeland. I find rheir right to the homeland they were given to be questionable. It was occupied by others and had been for around 2,000 years. That's a very long time. At the momemt Israel occupies most of the Palestinian territories ullegally so they are denying the Palestinians a homeland. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 25, 2019, 08:31:29 AM
It's such a complex subject there isn't  a simple answer. I can understand the Jews wanting a homeland. I find rheir right to the homeland they were given to be questionable. It was occupied by others and had been for around 2,000 years. That's a very long time. At the momemt Israel occupies most of the Palestinian territories ullegally so they are denying the Palestinians a homeland.
Well either Israel continues to exist and a two party solution is implemented (and it would seem most people on either side of the divide seem to prefer that) or the state of Israel is destroyed by those who support Hamas and Hezbollah.  That seems to be the stark choice, and the latter seems to be the one that Jeremy supports based in the company he likes to keep and the causes he supports,  unless I’m very much mistaken. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 09:43:44 AM
Well either Israel continues to exist and a two party solution is implemented (and it would seem most people on either side of the divide seem to prefer that) or the state of Israel is destroyed by those who support Hamas and Hezbollah.  That seems to be the stark choice, and the latter seems to be the one that Jeremy supports based in the company he likes to keep and the causes he supports,  unless I’m very much mistaken.

I don't know if Corbyn has expressed an opinion on the solution but;

Siding with the Palestinian struggle is not antisemitic
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/28/palestinian-struggle-jeremy-corbyn-zionism


Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 01:52:28 PM
I don't know if Corbyn has expressed an opinion on the solution but;

Siding with the Palestinian struggle is not antisemitic
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/28/palestinian-struggle-jeremy-corbyn-zionism

You should read this article...it shows clear anti semitism in the labour party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/05/jewish-concern-corbyn-israel-palestine-antisemitism-ihra
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on February 25, 2019, 05:41:48 PM
You should read this article...it shows clear anti semitism in the labour party

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/05/jewish-concern-corbyn-israel-palestine-antisemitism-ihra

I would say it's an atack by a Zionist on Corbyn, not the party.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 25, 2019, 05:44:59 PM
I don't know if Corbyn has expressed an opinion on the solution but;

Siding with the Palestinian struggle is not antisemitic
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/28/palestinian-struggle-jeremy-corbyn-zionism
Says Palestinian Ahmad Samih Khalidi  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2019, 05:58:06 PM
I would say it's an atack by a Zionist on Corbyn, not the party.

If you read the, article you will see there ate attacks on jews from members of the labour party... Which is, antisemetic
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 26, 2019, 02:09:50 PM
If you read the, article you will see there ate attacks on jews from members of the labour party... Which is, antisemetic

Anit semetic, islamophobe new words invented to beat those, by those who wish to silence those who dare to question them when they demand we turn a blind eye to their crimes.

Israeli policy on moving 'forgeiners' onto land they stole now called the 'settlements' is immoral and illegal under international law... If the Zionist Jews were asked to leave london to let Romanians in to settle there- some one would have something to say anout that... hmm let me see , Oh Yes, rascist- NAZIs -antisemetic  blah blah blah.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Davel on February 26, 2019, 03:29:36 PM
Anit semetic, islamophobe new words invented to beat those, by those who wish to silence those who dare to question them when they demand we turn a blind eye to their crimes.

Israeli policy on moving 'forgeiners' onto land they stole now called the 'settlements' is immoral and illegal under international law... If the Zionist Jews were asked to leave london to let Romanians in to settle there- some one would have something to say anout that... hmm let me see , Oh Yes, rascist- NAZIs -antisemetic  blah blah blah.

I think you need to do a little more research... Try reading the Guardian article I quoted where at a Jewish meeting addressed bu Gordon Brown he was applauded when he raised such points... Not all Jews, agree with the illtreatment of the Palestinians... You are woefully ill  informed imo and are just following the hard left's anti Semitic propaganda
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 08, 2019, 02:43:45 PM
I think you need to do a little more research... Try reading the Guardian article I quoted where at a Jewish meeting addressed bu Gordon Brown he was applauded when he raised such points... Not all Jews, agree with the illtreatment of the Palestinians... You are woefully ill  informed imo and are just following the hard left's anti Semitic propaganda

I do not need to research more at all. The Guardian has its own agenda. I have never accused ALL Jews of anything ,especially the illtreatment of the Palestinians. SO you can get your facts right. I am not hard left or right wing I merely comment on what I see and read.

What you supporters do not understand is you try and blacken people as a " defence is the best attack" anallergy, however, you all have no argument to base your claims on.By saying that YOU know NOTHING about me, or my family make up.

Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on September 21, 2019, 10:05:35 PM
“Anyone remember the good old days when the opposition opposed the government, not themselves?”

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: G-Unit on September 22, 2019, 08:18:53 AM
“Anyone remember the good old days when the opposition opposed the government, not themselves?”

 @)(++(*

Party loyalty is finished in both major parties it seems, which makes our 'first past the post' system obsolete in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on September 22, 2019, 08:35:53 AM
Party loyalty is finished in both major parties it seems, which makes our 'first past the post' system obsolete in my opinion.
The future is all about coalitions.  Really looking forward to a Tory - Brexit Party - DUP coalition.  Not. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on September 22, 2019, 08:43:00 AM
Difficult one.  Party Loyalty does have a place.  But then so does Constituency Loyalty.  And since half of these MPs seem to be following there own personal agenda, even against Party and Constituency, I can only wonder what will happen at the next General Election.

Hopefully, they will all get kicked out.  But I am not holding my breath.  At least most of them appear to have gone mad.  Or perhaps they don't care.  But it is mightily interesting watching all of this from the other side of The Channel.

Just don't tell me that these MPs have suddenly developed principles and morals.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on September 23, 2019, 05:55:43 PM
Party loyalty is finished in both major parties it seems, which makes our 'first past the post' system obsolete in my opinion.

Yes G I agree.

The party system is quite crude  it is like two gangs flashing sabres! My gang is bigger than your gang in the HOC.
Yawn what a bore.  in most cases their social concience is what they are told by the 'ruling
classes i.e. the 'establishment'!  Who are unelected. bang goes that belief about democracy.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on November 15, 2019, 08:21:15 AM
Who just loves Jeremy’s idea of free fast fibre optic broadband for all via a state controlled organisation??
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Eleanor on November 15, 2019, 08:53:35 AM
Who just loves Jeremy’s idea of free fast fibre optic broadband for all via a state controlled organisation??

Lovely.  All the better to spy on you, my dear.
Title: Re: Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 15, 2019, 09:22:52 AM

Personally I'm in favour of this latest Tory policy on the health service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVltOSC0JMQ