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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Lisbon Libel Trial Daily Reports and Judgements => Topic started by: John on April 19, 2016, 12:58:48 PM

Title: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 12:58:48 PM
Gonçalo Amaral has today won his appeal against Kate and Gerry McCann in the recent damages case.  The unanimous decision by three judges absolves the appellants of any damages claimed by the plaintiffs and awards all costs against the plaintiffs.


This is a translation of numbers 3 and 4 of the Appellate Court of Lisbon's decision in the case that has been filed by the McCann family against Gonçalo Amaral and others.

Acknowledgment to ASTRO for translation.


3. Under articles 635, number 4, and 639, number 1, of the Civil Process Code, the matter of the appeal is delimited by the appellant’s conclusions.

The matter subject to decision is thus essentially centred on the evaluation of the alleged wrongfulness and the responsibility that derives from it, imputed to the 1st defendant [Gonçalo Amaral], now the appellant, of the publication, by the 2nd and the 3rd defendants, equally appellants, of the works at stake.

As far as personality rights are concerned, article 26, number 1, of the Constitution states that everyone has a right to a good name and reputation and to the protection of the intimacy of private and family life.

The same fundamental law protects, with equal dignity, freedom of expression, by stating under number 1 of article 37 that everyone has a right to express and to publicise their thoughts in words, image or by any other means, as well as the right to inform, to inform oneself and to be informed, without impediment or discrimination.

And also, under number 2 of article 38, freedom of press, by consecrating freedom of expression and of creation by journalists and their collaborators.

Number 2 of article 18 establishes, in the case of conflict between fundamental rights, that any legal restrictions to those rights must be limited to whatever is necessary in order to safeguard other rights or interests that are constitutionally protected.

On the other hand, in ordinary law, article 70 of the Civil Code consecrates, as a principle, that the law protects individuals against any illicit offence or threat to offend their physical or moral integrity, while article 80 of the same diploma states that everyone must respect someone else’s intimacy of private life.

Whenever there is a collision of rights that are equal or of the same kind, the holders must, under number 1 of article 335, cede as necessary in order for all of them to produce their effect equally, without greater damage for any one of them – while (under number 2 of the same article), if the rights are not equal or are of different species, the one that is considered superior must prevail.

Therefore, and as the dominant jurisprudence understands the matter:

“One of the limits to the freedom of information, which therefore is not an absolute right, is the safeguard of the right to a good name. Journalists, the media, are bound by ethical and deontological duties, and duties of rigour and objectivity.

- The media have the right, the social function, of spreading news and giving critical or non-critical opinions, and it is important that they do so with respect for the truth and for someone else’s intangible rights, as are personality rights.

- The right to honour, in a broader sense, and the right to freedom of press and of opinion are traditional areas of conflict.

- Criticism has a boundary in the rights of its targets, but it remains legitimate if it is sharp, steely, as long as it is not injurious, because so often therein lies the style of the author.

- To criticise implies to reproach, fault-finding that is aired in the media only stops being legitimate as a manifestation of individual freedom when it expresses objective antijuricity, violating rights that are extremely personal and which effect, in a more or less lasting manner according to men’s memory, assets that need to be preserved as are the rights here at stake, to honour, to a good name and to a social standing” (decision by the Superior Court, dated 20/1/2010, www.dgsi.pt)

In the case at hand, apart from the reporting of the facts that are part of the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, an analysis of the book and of the rest of the published material finds that the now 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] therein sustains the thesis that an abduction did not take place, but rather the accidental death of the child, followed by a cover-up – through the concealment of her cadaver and the simulation of that crime – by plaintiffs Gerald and Kate McCann, now the subjects of the appeal.

It results from the aforementioned publication that the means of evidence and the indicia that it reports to are, essentially, those referred to and documented in the respective criminal enquiry.

Nevertheless, the exposed thesis, that the child died accidentally and that fact was concealed by the parents, who have broadcast, in order to deceive, the hypothesis of an abduction, is not new – the same is equally contained in the report which is mentioned under number 9 of the proven facts, determining the arguido constitution of said subjects of appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann], and was, after a copy of the inquiry was made public, published in the media (numbers 65 and 66 of proven facts).

As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion.

And because from the proved matter results that – apart from it being about facts that have been profusely published in the inquiry and even publicised through an initiative of the Republic’s Prosecutor General’s Office – it was the subjects of the appeal themselves [Kate and Gerry McCann] who, benefiting from an easy access, multiplied themselves in interviews and interventions in national and international media, one must conclude that it was them who, voluntarily, limited their rights to reservation and to the intimacy of private life.

By proceeding in this manner, they opened the way for anyone to equally express an opinion about the case, contradicting their thesis – without losing their right to exercise a legitimate, and constitutionally consecrated, right to an opinion and a freedom of expression of thought.

On the other hand, we cannot see how the right of the subjects of this appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann] to benefit, following their constitution as arguidos, from the guarantees of the penal process – including the right to a fair investigation and the right to freedom and safety – may be offended by the contents of a book which, in its essence, describes and interprets facts that are part of an inquiry whose contents have been published.

Nothing opposes that, although they have not been deemed sufficient to lead to a criminal charge, said facts are subject to diverse appreciation, namely in a work of literary nature.

Therefore, and because it is contained within consecrated rights, namely under numbers 37 and 38 of the Constitution, the publication at stake must be considered lawful.

Nonetheless, it is understood, in the decision under appeal, that because the 1st appellant, Gonçalo Amaral, was, until October 2, 2007, the coordinator of the criminal investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, he was, after his retirement on the 1st of July, 2008, subject to the duties of secrecy and reserve that are imposed to the employees that serve the Polícia Judiciária.

And, under such terms, although the introductory note in the book invokes personal reasons, in a situation of conflict with the rights to a good name and reputation of the subjects of the appeal, the appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] could not benefit, faced with the results of the investigation, of a broad and full freedom of expression – and thus his conduct would be unlawful, under article 484 of the Civil Code.

From what was above said about this matter, it is clearly understood that such argumentation cannot be sustained.

In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

In the absence of its primordial presupposition it must therefore be concluded against the previous decision, due to the lack of precedence of any of the requests that have been formulated by the current subjects of the appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann] – while the re-appreciation of the matter of fact that had been secondarily requested remains impaired.

4. From the above mentioned, it is agreed, in accordance with both appeals, to revoke the appealed decision and, considering the action against them to be unfounded, to acquit the appealing plaintiffs of the totality of the requests. The costs, in both instances [courts] are to be paid by the appealed subjects [Kate and Gerry McCann].

2867
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
breaking news GA has  won    8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(


https://mobile.twitter.com/PJ_GA/status/722384631417434116
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 01:22:07 PM
breaking news GA has  won


https://mobile.twitter.com/PJ_GA/status/722384631417434116

"Justice at last.  Hope this is true".

What exactly has Goncalo won?  Tears before bedtime, I warrant.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 01:27:13 PM
"Justice at last.  Hope this is true".

What exactly has Goncalo won?  Tears before bedtime, I warrant.

nope he has won his case ie the mcanns dont get any of his money!!!  so yeo im sure there will be tears  8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 01:30:26 PM
nope he has won his case ie the mcanns dont get any of his money!!!  so yeo im sure there will be tears  8(0(*

So it has been stated that The McCanns won't get any of Goncalo's money?  Could we have a cite, please.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 01:34:17 PM
PJGA ‏@PJ_GA  3m3 minutes ago
We will post a summary of the decision as soon as we can. #McCann It will take some time #translation
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 01:35:35 PM
Let's wait for the official announcment.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 01:37:24 PM
PJGA ‏@PJ_GA  3m3 minutes ago
We will post a summary of the decision as soon as we can. #McCann It will take some time #translation

ty pathfinder it looks like he has truly won such awesome news
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 01:37:52 PM
This could well explain the BS in yesterdays papers from SY.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 01:38:01 PM
Let's wait for the official announcment.

Na.  Let's have a bit of speculation in the meantime.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 01:38:40 PM
This could well explain the BS in yesterdays papers from SY.

I was just thinking that - try to soften the blow.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 01:40:57 PM
Na.  Let's have a bit of speculation in the meantime.

I'll await the official announcement.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 01:41:38 PM
ty pathfinder it looks like he has truly won such awesome news

fishy ‏@ohwhatatale  15m15 minutes ago
Snr Amaral' wife has confirmed his appeal win:)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 01:45:18 PM
I was just thinking that - try to soften the blow.

Yep.

Off to work now, but I'll keep my eye on proceedings.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 01:47:10 PM
Yep.

Off to work now, but I'll keep my eye on proceedings.

Where?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 19, 2016, 01:50:15 PM
fishy ‏@ohwhatatale  15m15 minutes ago
Snr Amaral' wife has confirmed his appeal win:)

Did he remarry?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 01:51:02 PM
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AnneGuedes.htm

 

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 01:54:46 PM
Did he remarry?

if he did   isnt that his concern???
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 01:56:10 PM
Breaking News from Astro: Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal more to follow later 19 April 2016
 8@??)(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 02:06:34 PM
Where?

Why would you need to know ? 8**8:/:
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 02:14:30 PM
Apparently all 3 judges voted in Amaral's favour & all costs have been awarded against the McCanns.

It's awful to see so many celebrating this news whilst mocking the latest press release from SY about the investigation.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 02:15:47 PM
Apparently all 3 judges voted in Amaral's favour & all costs have been awarded against the McCanns.

It's awful to see so many celebrating this news whilst mocking the latest press release from SY about the investigation.

Where are you getting your information from, Misty?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 02:17:38 PM
If you live by the sword.............
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 02:18:06 PM
Where are you getting your information from, Misty?

Flitting around, it was on one of the F/B pages about 10 mins ago
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 02:18:31 PM
just read  this

 all three judges ruled in favour of Goncalo Amaral it was a unanimous decision
And all costs are awarded against the Mccanns
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 02:19:05 PM
Flitting around, it was on one of the F/B pages about 10 mins ago

Anything from a mainstream media source (English or Portuguese)?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 02:19:29 PM
So davel, what were you for casting about the appeal judgement ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 02:20:15 PM
Where are you getting your information from, Misty?
You should have noticed by now that Misty is good at internet research and generally posts correct information Ferryman
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 02:20:57 PM
Anything from a mainstream media source (English or Portuguese)?

Don't know yet.
MM Abduction or Scam F/B.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 02:21:30 PM
Anything from a mainstream media source (English or Portuguese)?

Carter Ruck are, no doubt, applying for an injunction as we speak   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 02:22:20 PM
this  means it is ok to have  an opinion about the mcanns too  without  threats  etc
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 02:24:21 PM
this  means it is ok to have  an opinion about the mcanns too  without  threats  etc

What threats?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 02:24:41 PM
Carter Ruck are, no doubt, applying for an injunction as we speak   @)(++(*

Hasn't someone else rather queered that particular pitch in recent times ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 02:25:18 PM
So after a court case,   three Judges have sat down and found the Judge of the court case to be wrong.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 02:27:05 PM
PJGA confirms
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 02:27:39 PM
So after a court case,   three Judges have sat down and found the Judge of the court case to be wrong.

in simple terms   they found the  mcanns didnt have a  case against  GA   and the mccans also have to pay his court fees etc
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 02:29:00 PM
So after a court case,   three Judges have sat down and found the Judge of the court case to be wrong.

"These things 'appen Mr Rudd"
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 02:30:14 PM
So after a court case,   three Judges have sat down and found the Judge of the court case to be wrong.

It's turning into a nice little earner for the Portuguese legal system, isn't it? It's not over yet.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 02:33:28 PM
It's turning into a nice little earner for the Portuguese legal system, isn't it? It's not over yet.

even you have to admit it would be stupid  of the  mcanns to appeal this dont you?? i dont even think they  can?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
It's turning into a nice little earner for the Portuguese legal system, isn't it? It's not over yet.

No. I fear not. Endless legal wrangling in sight.
Maybe someone will start a fund to pay the McCann's legal costs  8)-)))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 02:38:37 PM
So after a court case,   three Judges have sat down and found the Judge of the court case to be wrong.


I believe that that's what Appeal Systems are for.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 02:38:46 PM
No. I fear not. Endless legal wrangling in sight.
Maybe someone will start a fund to pay the McCann's legal costs  8)-)))

in theory  GA can now  counter  sue the  mccans and anyone  online  etc that has slandered/libelled   him  right  ??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
even you have to admit it would be stupid  of the  mcanns to appeal this dont you?? i dont even think they  can?

Out of principle, I'm sure they will appeal. Amaral will have to hope his supporters have very deep pockets.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 02:43:12 PM
in simple terms   they found the  mcanns didnt have a  case against  GA   and the mccans also have to pay his court fees etc

What do you mean 'in simple terms'    that's abuse carly,  something you go on about all the time.

I am aware of what went on in the Court and that everything was poured over making sheets and sheets of the proceedings.   So what exactly have they found to be wrong with what the Judge decided?

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 02:43:58 PM
I must say its good to see people power beating the MSM at their own game.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 02:45:01 PM
in theory  GA can now  counter  sue the  mccans and anyone  online  etc that has slandered/libelled   him  right  ??

Absolutely, this was always on the cards.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 02:47:32 PM
I must say its good to see people power beating the MSM at their own game.

if you are referring to amaral I think you are totally wrong....much of what he has said has been shown to be lies
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 02:49:00 PM
Here is image of last paragraph of the decision
(full portuguese text at  http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/ )
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 02:49:38 PM
Out of principle, I'm sure they will appeal. Amaral will have to hope his supporters have very deep pockets.
If they have leave to appeal they don't really have a great deal of choice but Sr Amaral will not need much dosh if the McCanns appeal.
He just sits tight and does not even have to turn up in court. He needs a brief to turn up on the day of the appeal just in case.
The cost will be to the McCanns for their brief to enter the grounds for the appeal and appear before the judge(s).
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Which court is this going to be ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2016, 02:56:06 PM
if you are referring to amaral I think you are totally wrong....much of what he has said has been shown to be lies

If the appeal decision is shown to be as reported, new ground rules will need to be observed in comments about him. As has already been mentioned, he may decide to pursue those posting on the Internet for libel.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 02:59:48 PM
if you are referring to amaral I think you are totally wrong....much of what he has said has been shown to be lies

Looks like your prediction was wrong?   ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 03:00:13 PM
Which court is this going to be ?

The Supreme Court ?
It could be it will come down to dosh. ie can they afford it?
Would you take it on on a conditional fee basis?
I would want a wedge up front the client having just lost the previous round. I would imagine it will need a bit of cute (expensive) legal tap dancing to find grounds for appeal now.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 03:00:39 PM
And just to clarify
"RR apelantes" = GA et al
"AA apelados" = GM et al
 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:01:29 PM
If the appeal decision is shown to be as reported, new ground rules will need to be observed in comments about him. As has already been mentioned, he may decide to pursue those posting on the Internet for libel.

he would be  in his right  to do so wouldnt he?? especally    certian forums and facebook groups
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 03:04:30 PM
he would be  in his right  to do so wouldnt he?? especally    certian forums and facebook groups

There will be a lot of folk "hull down" having severe bouts of ring twitter if that is true.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 03:08:47 PM
Where are those who insisted that the lower court judge's decision was watertight and that there was no way that GA as well as the others who appealed could win?

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:09:35 PM
If the appeal decision is shown to be as reported, new ground rules will need to be observed in comments about him. As has already been mentioned, he may decide to pursue those posting on the Internet for libel.

Why?  Libellous posts about the McCanns have been permitted on here ever since I've posted.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:12:59 PM
Where are those who insisted that the lower court judge's decision was watertight and that there was no way that GA as well as the others who appealed could win?

Let's wait for the translation. Apparently the 3 judges have refuted the evidence provided by the McCann court witnesses. Perhaps Pegasus would elaborate.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 03:14:43 PM
Could this have anything to do with the pointless 'Police hope to find Madeleine alive' story? Are we going to see 'McCanns lose libel trial appeal' stories next?  &%+((£
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:16:49 PM
Could this have anything to do with the pointless 'Police hope to find Madeleine alive' story? Are we going to see 'McCanns lose libel trial appeal' stories next?  &%+((£

 @)(++(* and pigs might  fly
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2016, 03:20:31 PM
Where are those who insisted that the lower court judge's decision was watertight and that there was no way that GA as well as the others who appealed could win?

I'm still here: I was under the impression that as a modern democracy Portuguese judges would consider there was value in upholding Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
If Mr Amaral has indeed won his appeal it would appear I have been wrong in that assumption.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 03:22:46 PM
This Judgement, if true, has nothing to do with any culpability of The McCanns.  It will be simply Portuguese Law on The Freedom of Speech.

So let's not get precious about who has the right to Libel.  No one has that right.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
I'm still here: I was under the impression that as a modern democracy Portuguese judges would consider there was value in upholding Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
If Mr Amaral has indeed won his appeal it would appear I have been wrong in that assumption.

There is no doubt about the decision, the appeal court has revoked the judgement of the lower court and absolved the appellant of any costs claimed by the plaintiffs.  Amaral has now a case for seeking damages. This could prove to be extremely costly for the McCanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:24:57 PM
Could this have anything to do with the pointless 'Police hope to find Madeleine alive' story? Are we going to see 'McCanns lose libel trial appeal' stories next?  &%+((£

Why are stories about hope pointless?
Just today, police have arrested someone in connection with the unsolved murder of Rikki Neave more than 20 years ago, which may well bring relief to his family.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:26:00 PM
There is no doubt about the decision, the appeal court has revoked the judgement of the lower court and absolved the appellant of any costs claimed by the plaintiffs.  Amaral has now a case for seeking damages.

i hope he does   john   people have  said terrible things about him online and all he did was do his  job he also lost his house  etc didnt he?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 03:30:15 PM
There is no doubt about the decision, the appeal court has revoked the judgement of the lower court and absolved the appellant of any costs claimed by the plaintiffs.  Amaral has now a case for seeking damages. This could prove to be extremely costly for the McCanns.

then portuguese justice is a disgrace...it cannot be right to accuse people of such crimes and lie about the evidence collected
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 03:31:31 PM
There is no doubt about the decision, the appeal court has revoked the judgement of the lower court and absolved the appellant of any costs claimed by the plaintiffs.  Amaral has now a case for seeking damages. This could prove to be extremely costly for the McCanns.

#damages for what exactly
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2016, 03:32:21 PM
Why?  Libellous posts about the McCanns have been permitted on here ever since I've posted.

Please show one?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:32:54 PM
#damages for what exactly

liabel  people like  yourself  writing untrue stuff about him online
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 03:33:19 PM
I'm still here: I was under the impression that as a modern democracy Portuguese judges would consider there was value in upholding Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
If Mr Amaral has indeed won his appeal it would appear I have been wrong in that assumption.


Why? did someone not receive a fair trial then?
I recall about a twelve month ago the trial was viewed as fair and the Boogah Man received his just desserts (going by posts on here). What has changed ? there has been no new trial just three judges ruling they disagreed with the original trial verdict.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:33:36 PM
Please show one?

usally they  get whooshclucked if there is any??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 03:33:50 PM
Please show one?

#shit parents
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2016, 03:35:03 PM
#shit parents

Not libel.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:35:48 PM
Not libel.

nope many people think that is the case....... and they were
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 03:36:23 PM
#damages for what exactly

Are you serious?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2016, 03:37:42 PM

Topic please ...  Breaking News: Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:37:52 PM
Are you serious?

  if the mcanns     believed they were   damaged then GA has the right to feel the same  way does he  not??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 03:38:09 PM
then portuguese justice is a disgrace...it cannot be right to accuse people of such crimes and lie about the evidence collected

Tough.

Now what we're you predicting about the appeal ? @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Angelo222 on April 19, 2016, 03:38:21 PM
nope many people think that is the case....... and they were

 8((()*/ @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

Woopeedoo
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 03:39:20 PM
Not libel.

Indeed.

An opinion of the mccanns parenting skills.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:40:12 PM
Indeed.

An opinion of the mccanns parenting skills.

or   the lack of them??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:42:37 PM
Not libel.

How do many of P/F's posts differ from #Innocent Face? Libellous insinuation is always there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 03:45:29 PM
How do many of P/F's posts differ from #Innocent Face? Libellous insinuation is always there.

What of ferryman in regards to Grime ?

Likewise to those attacking Amaral ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:47:35 PM
What of ferryman in regards to Grime ?

Likewise to those attacking Amaral ?

they will have to be careful now   GA   can rightly  sue anyone   for  damages  now
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:48:47 PM
What of ferryman in regards to Grime ?

Likewise to those attacking Amaral ?

Which ones are always removed & the poster given points?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 03:49:45 PM
The decision is half correct and half incorrect IMO.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html


BREAKING NEWS: Portuguese detective WINS his appeal against libel defeat to Madeleine McCann's parents and will NOT have to pay them €500,000 damages

By Gerard Couzens for MailOnline

Published: 00:29 EST, 20 April 2016 | Updated: 00:47 EST, 20 April 2016

View comments

Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral has won his appeal against his court libel defeat to Madeleine McCann's parents.

The former police chief was ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann €500,000 in damages in April last year after accusing them of faking their daughter's abduction.

But today he posted a copy of the 16-page judgement overturning the original decision on an Internet blog.
Former Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral (pictured) has won his appeal over a court libel loss against Madeleine McCann's parents and won't have to pat them €500,000 in damages, it was reported today
+4

Former Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral (pictured) has won his appeal over a court libel loss against Madeleine McCann's parents and won't have to pat them €500,000 in damages, it was reported today

The last page of the document, signed by three appeal judges and dated April 19, confirmed the original ruling was being revoked.

Amaral lost his long-running libel battle over his controversial 2008 book claiming the McCanns had faked missing daughter Madeleine's abduction after she died in their Algarve holiday apartment.
RELATED ARTICLES

 
He was also ordered to pay interest after a Lisbon judge ruled he had overstepped freedom of speech limits in The Truth Of The Lie.

After the verdict, the McCanns announced they would plough 'every penny' of the payout into the hunt for their daughter, who was three years old when she vanished on May 3, 2007.


Madeleine McCann's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, speak to the media outside court in in Lisbon during their libel action against Amaral in July 2014

But Amaral's appeal, which he confirmed the following month, thwarted their hopes of spending the money.

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, was unavailable this afternoon afternoon.

Isabel Duarte, the Portuguese lawyer who represented the couple over the libel case, was said by her office to be in court and unavailable.

Amaral could also be immediately contacted.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46HgLSPn1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 03:51:32 PM
"Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, was unavailable."  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 03:53:34 PM
Are you serious?

#yes...damages for what...and would any judgement by a portuguese court be enforceable against assets in the UK
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 03:55:38 PM
The decision is half correct and half incorrect IMO.

Would you elaborate, please, as we do not have the benefit of a translation.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 03:57:11 PM
Would you elaborate, please, as we do not have the benefit of a translation.

its right here

BREAKING NEWS: Portuguese detective WINS his appeal against libel defeat to Madeleine McCann's parents and will NOT have to pay them €500,000 damages

By Gerard Couzens for MailOnline

Published: 00:29 EST, 20 April 2016 | Updated: 00:47 EST, 20 April 2016

View comments

Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral has won his appeal against his court libel defeat to Madeleine McCann's parents.

The former police chief was ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann €500,000 in damages in April last year after accusing them of faking their daughter's abduction.

But today he posted a copy of the 16-page judgement overturning the original decision on an Internet blog.
Former Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral (pictured) has won his appeal over a court libel loss against Madeleine McCann's parents and won't have to pat them €500,000 in damages, it was reported today
+4

Former Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral (pictured) has won his appeal over a court libel loss against Madeleine McCann's parents and won't have to pat them €500,000 in damages, it was reported today

The last page of the document, signed by three appeal judges and dated April 19, confirmed the original ruling was being revoked.

Amaral lost his long-running libel battle over his controversial 2008 book claiming the McCanns had faked missing daughter Madeleine's abduction after she died in their Algarve holiday apartment.
RELATED ARTICLES

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    Undated family handout file photo of Madeleine McCann. Detectives still hope that Madeleine could be found alive, despite the drastic scaling back of the police investigation into her disappearance. PRESS ASSOCIATION Photo. Issue date: Monday April 18, 2016. The little girl went missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal in 2007 when she was three, and despite efforts by police there and a British investigation launched in 2011, no progress has been made in finding her. See PA story POLICE Portugal. Photo credit should read: PA/PA Wire NOTE TO EDITORS: This handout photo may only be used in for editorial reporting purposes for the contemporaneous illustration of events, things or the people in the image or facts mentioned in the caption. Reuse of the picture may require further permission from the copyright holder. Madeleine McCann detectives believe the missing youngster...
    Mandatory Credit: Photo by Piers Allardyce/REX/Shutterstock (4767850ab)\nKatie Hopkins\nLGBT Awards, Landmark Hotel, London, Britain - 24 Apr 2015\n\n KATIE HOPKINS: We'll never know what really happened to...

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He was also ordered to pay interest after a Lisbon judge ruled he had overstepped freedom of speech limits in The Truth Of The Lie.

After the verdict, the McCanns announced they would plough 'every penny' of the payout into the hunt for their daughter, who was three years old when she vanished on May 3, 2007.
Madeleine McCann's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, speak to the media outside court in in Lisbon during their libel action against Amaral in July 2014
+4

Madeleine McCann's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, speak to the media outside court in in Lisbon during their libel action against Amaral in July 2014

But Amaral's appeal, which he confirmed the following month, thwarted their hopes of spending the money.

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, was unavailable this afternoon afternoon.

Isabel Duarte, the Portuguese lawyer who represented the couple over the libel case, was said by her office to be in court and unavailable.

Amaral could also be immediately contacted.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46HgLSPn1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 03:59:36 PM
This is a translation of numbers 3 and of the Appellate Court of Lisbon's decision in the case that has been filed by the McCann family against Gonçalo Amaral and others.

This blog would like to express its heartfelt gratitude to every one of you who have supported Gonçalo Amaral through this case. It is not over; but this is, without doubt, a significant and relevant decision that boosts our confidence in the Portuguese Courts and in a system that may be excruciatingly slow but ultimately serves its purpose of performing Justice.

Thank you.

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 04:01:32 PM
I feel we must all be delighted that a decision has been finally reached.  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 04:03:23 PM
I feel we must all be delighted that a decision has been finally reached.  ?{)(**

im thrilled  how about  you   ?{)(**   GA can now  get on with his  life
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 04:05:03 PM
#yes...damages for what...and would any judgement by a portuguese court be enforceable against assets in the UK

Losses incurred as a consequence of the McCann's legal actions.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 04:05:56 PM
Madeleine McCann's Parents Lose Lisbon Libel Case on Appeal

LISBON, Portugal — A lawyer for the parents of missing British girl Madeleine McCann say an appeals court in Portugal has overturned the libel conviction of a former Portuguese detective who published a book alleging they were involved in their daughter's disappearance.

Lisbon lawyer Isabel Duarte tells The Associated Press she was notified Tuesday of the court's decision to uphold Goncalo Amaral's appeal against the order to pay Kate and Gerry McCann 500,000 euros ($568,000) in compensation. Duarte said she intended to fight the decision at the Supreme Court.

Amaral was part of the police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance from a vacation home in Portugal's Algarve region in May 2007, days before her fourth birthday. In 2008 he published his book about the case called "The Truth of the Lie."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/04/19/world/europe/ap-eu-portugal-missing-girl.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 04:06:49 PM
Just had a quick look on Sky news and the BBC.

No mention so far as of 3.55 pm.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 04:09:11 PM
Just had a quick look on Sky news and the BBC.

No mention so far as of 3.55 pm.

its made the NY  times  which is a worldwide   online newspaper as is   daily mail  UK 8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 04:12:18 PM
its made the NY  times  which is a worldwide   online newspaper as is   daily mail  UK 8(0(*

And ABC in America but not the BBC, ITV or Sky in the UK.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/madeleine-mccanns-parents-lose-lisbon-libel-case-appeal-38508668
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 04:14:36 PM
A scoop for the Mail.  Unusual to beat the 24h news channels.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 04:15:43 PM
And ABC in America but not the BBC, ITV or Sky in the UK.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/madeleine-mccanns-parents-lose-lisbon-libel-case-appeal-38508668

think the mcanns and supporters underestimated  the power of the internet didnt they?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 04:17:57 PM
think the mcanns and supporters underestimated  the power of the internet didnt they?

They and the mccanns did not see this one coming.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 04:18:15 PM
Daily Mail  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 04:18:47 PM
Clearly the appeal judges took the view that the facts in the case were already public knowledge and formed a substantial part of the Archiving Report.  They also accepted that the McCanns themselves were partly responsible for the promotion of the thesis.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 04:20:47 PM
"Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, was unavailable this afternoon"
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 04:22:05 PM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7088278/Portuguese-detective-who-claimed-McCanns-faked-Maddies-disappearance-after-she-died-in-apartment-wins-libel-appeal.html?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-TheSunNewspaper-_-20160419-_-News-_-438921093-_-Imageandlink

Portuguese detective who claimed McCanns faked Maddie's disappearance after she died in apartment wins libel appeal

Goncolo Amaral wrote a damning book 'The Truth of the Lie' in 2008, in which he blamed the McCanns for covering up Maddie's death

A PORTUGUESE detective who wrote a book claiming the McCanns faked Maddie's disappearance after she died in their holiday apartment has won a libel appeal against her parents.

Goncalo Amaral was ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann half a million euros in libel damages in April last year after accusing them of faking their daughter's abduction in an explosive book.

It was today reported three appeal judges ruled in the former Portuguese police chief's favour, meaning he will not have to pay out the cash.

Goncalo launched an appeal a month after losing his long-running libel battle over the controversial 2008 book.

In 'The Truth of the Lie', he said the McCanns faked Madeleine's abduction after she died in their holiday apartment.

He was ordered to pay interest after a Lisbon judge ruled he overstepped freedom of speech limits.

The McCanns announced after the verdict they would plough “every penny” of the payout into the hunt for their daughter, three when she vanished on May 3 2007.

Amaral’s appeal thwarted their hopes of spending the money.

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, was unavailable this afternoon.

Isabel Duarte, the Portuguese lawyer who represented the couple over the libel case, was said by her office to be in court and unavailable.

Amaral could also not be immediately contacted.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 04:28:23 PM
Losses incurred as a consequence of the McCann's legal actions.

are you sure he has a case .......and are any damages awarded by a portuguese court enforceable against assets in the UK...do you really know the answers to these questions
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 04:32:17 PM
are you sure he has a case .......and are any damages awarded by a portuguese court enforceable against assets in the UK...do you really know the answers to these questions
So would it make more sense to do it in an English court Davel?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
are you sure he has a case .......and are any damages awarded by a portuguese court enforceable against assets in the UK...do you really know the answers to these questions

What would stop him suing in this country should he so wish?
I can imagine a queue forming to take his business; England and Wales defamation law being generally in favour of the plaintiff 'n' all.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 04:34:47 PM
Sorry Peggy we crossed
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 04:35:39 PM
are you sure he has a case .......and are any damages awarded by a portuguese court enforceable against assets in the UK...do you really know the answers to these questions

They can't have it both ways so if Gonçalo does as he stated he would do and pursue a damages action then regardless of where the McCanns reside they will have to comply with any Order made by a Portuguese court.  No doubt Sra Duarte and Ricardo Alfonso will lodge a further appeal to the Supreme Court so this could rumble on much further.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 04:36:38 PM
are you sure he has a case .......and are any damages awarded by a portuguese court enforceable against assets in the UK...do you really know the answers to these questions

Likely not, but it would be a PR home goal if they refused to pay what they owed.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
Brunty is on the ball now on Sky News.

McCann lawyer Isabel Duarte confirms she will appeal decision to the Supreme Court in Lisbon.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 04:43:31 PM
They can't have it both ways so if Gonçalo does as he stated he would do and pursue a damages action then regardless of where the McCanns reside they will have to comply with any Order made by a Portuguese court.  No doubt Sra Duarte and Ricardo Alfonso will lodge a further appeal to the Supreme Court so this could rumble on much further.

If he pursued a damages claim he would have to reveal details of all the financial assistance he's received during the period in question...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 04:44:16 PM
If he pursued a damages claim he would have to reveal details of all the financial assistance he's received during the period in question...

He would.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 04:46:32 PM

If Amaral is allowed to say whatever he likes, shouldn't The McCanns be afforded the same?

Just asking.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 04:48:42 PM
McCann are 'disappointed but not surprised' after Portuguese cop wins libel appeal

Isabel Duarte, the McCanns' Portuguese lawyer, said she was "disappointed" but not surprised by the appeal decision.

She said Madeleine's parents instructed her to launch an appeal of their own, to be decided by Portugal's Supreme Court.

She confirmed: “I have just learnt that the three appeal court judges have decided to overturn the original decision in favour of my clients. It was a unanimous decision. The original decision has been revoked.

“I and the McCanns are obviously disappointed but I am not surprised because one of the judges ruled in favour of a previous appeal overturning a ban on the book.

“This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.

“We can appeal to the Supreme Court which we will do as we have instructions from our clients.

“My understanding from reading the appeal ruling is that the judges have decided Amaral was entitled to write a book the court calls a literary book.

“The court is basically saying he had the right to express his opinions.

“We obviously hope the appeal will succeed.

“The McCanns never received any compensation money after the original decision although the money was deposited at the court so there is no money to return to Gonzalo Amaral."
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 04:48:48 PM
If Amaral is allowed to say whatever he likes, shouldn't The McCanns be afforded the same?

Just asking.


No, no. That's what they employ a mouthpiece for  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 04:50:09 PM

No, no. That's what they employ a mouthpiece for  @)(++(*

 8)-))) he  has gone  AWOL
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:02:05 PM
8)-))) he  has gone  AWOL

He would have a problem dressing today's events up as a major victory.
But wait........................
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 05:02:25 PM
8)-))) he  has gone  AWOL
... not for long, it just takes a few hours to build up the necessary RPM
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 05:05:53 PM
They can't have it both ways so if Gonçalo does as he stated he would do and pursue a damages action then regardless of where the McCanns reside they will have to comply with any Order made by a Portuguese court.  No doubt Sra Duarte and Ricardo Alfonso will lodge a further appeal to the Supreme Court so this could rumble on much further.

as I said...is an order by a portuguese court ...in a civil case...enforceable in the uk. I doubt very much....do you really know
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 19, 2016, 05:07:11 PM
Brunty is on the ball now on Sky News.

McCann lawyer Isabel Duarte confirms she will appeal decision to the Supreme Court in Lisbon.

I'm not sure how the McCanns will be able to justify spending even more of the fund money appealing this decision. After all even the initial decision said the book had not harmed the search.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 05:10:48 PM
as I said...is an order by a portuguese court ...in a civil case...enforceable in the uk. I doubt very much....do you really know

Might make it a bit difficult for them to return to Portugal, though, in that case.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 19, 2016, 05:13:45 PM
I feel we must all be delighted that a decision has been finally reached.  ?{)(**

This is just the first appeal. Unless I've missed something the McCanns can appeal to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:13:56 PM
I'm not sure how the McCanns will be able to justify spending even more of the fund money appealing this decision. After all even the initial decision said the book had not harmed the search.

I don't see they have a great deal of choice; they have to go to the end of the line or have a very convincing reason for not doing so. It is after all not about the money but their good name etc.
As I posted the other day, but a mod didn't like it:
"Man who ride tiger cannot choose when to dismount"
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 05:22:32 PM
I don't know how these things work, but the McCanns at this moment owe for all the costs. Will they have to pay up before they can launch an appeal? After all, the amount owing will rise if they lose again. Will the courts take any  action to safeguard the amount they owe just as they acted to freeze Amaral's assets?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 05:24:05 PM
Brunty is on the ball now on Sky News.

McCann lawyer Isabel Duarte confirms she will appeal decision to the Supreme Court in Lisbon.

According to Diário de Notícias, Isabel Duarte said that she would appeal to the Tribunal Suprême because the McCanns asked her to. I'm sure that she realises that it would be hopeless to do so. IIRC, in 2010, when the couple appealed to the SC, their appeal was immediately rejected.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:24:41 PM
This is just the first appeal. Unless I've missed something the McCanns can appeal to the Supreme Court.

The appeal that the experts said was either not taking place or had no chance of success. This was according to the experts "good night Goncalo".
Funny old world innit.
Supreme Court and ECHR to go.
It could rival The McLibel trial for time elapsed. 10 years then another 10 for that one.
That I should live that long, oi vey !
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 05:28:10 PM
This is just the first appeal. Unless I've missed something the McCanns can appeal to the Supreme Court.

So I believe, but we at least one stage nearer the end, which has got to be good.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 05:39:15 PM
I notice the ones who are happy about Amaral the man who has stated that Madeleine is dead are the same ones who were not happy about the report from SY saying they hope to find Madeleine alive,  says it all really.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 05:39:45 PM
Does anyone know what grounds there might be for an appeal?

'Experts' were quick to come forward and state why Amaral wouldn't be able to appeal, so presumably these same experts will have an opinion on this next level of appeal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:43:14 PM
I don't know how these things work, but the McCanns at this moment owe for all the costs. Will they have to pay up before they can launch an appeal? After all, the amount owing will rise if they lose again. Will the courts take any  action to safeguard the amount they owe just as they acted to freeze Amaral's assets?

Actual court costs are pretty much PAYG.
The McCanns will owe Dra Duarte something but we don't know how that is divvied up, and they now owe for Sr Amarals legal costs unless it is overturned by the next appeal. It is doubtful they will pay anything until the final appeal is done and dusted.
There is potential for the belt to come off in a quite spectacular manner.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 19, 2016, 05:43:55 PM
as I said...is an order by a portuguese court ...in a civil case...enforceable in the uk. I doubt very much....do you really know

Do you mean concerning this current appeal?

“The McCanns never received any compensation money after the original decision although the money was deposited at the court so there is no money to return to Gonzalo Amaral."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/madeleine-mccann-portuguese-detective-wins-appeal-against-order/

It's not clear whether the amount will still by kept by the court if the McCanns lodge a Supreme Court appeal... as a final appeal could go the other way.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:45:22 PM
Does anyone know what grounds there might be for an appeal?

'Experts' were quick to come forward and state why Amaral wouldn't be able to appeal, so presumably these same experts will have an opinion on this next level of appeal.

I don't think they thought that far ahead.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 05:46:59 PM
Had it not been for Leanne Baulch and others in the UK Amaral may not have been able to appeal and the McCanns would have achieved their objectives.

The Supreme Court has found against them previously so it will be quite a gamble to go there again because they have nothing new to bring to the process as far as I know. 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 05:49:25 PM
Does anyone know what grounds there might be for an appeal?

'Experts' were quick to come forward and state why Amaral wouldn't be able to appeal, so presumably these same experts will have an opinion on this next level of appeal.

What about writing his book whilst still employed by the Police?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 05:49:49 PM
What an absolute disgrace that a court supports the defamation of an innocent couple in this way
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 05:52:43 PM
What about writing his book whilst still employed by the Police?

Presumably that will have been considered already. Can it be raised again, I wonder?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 05:56:03 PM
I notice the ones who are happy about Amaral the man who has stated that Madeleine is dead are the same ones who were not happy about the report from SY saying they hope to find Madeleine alive,  says it all really.

What I find particularly funny is that last time out the judge booted out 60% of the claim and awarded court costs against the McCanns in a 60:40 split. This was dressed up, on this very forum, as a major victory by the McCanns and anyone who didn't see that was ESN, didn't understand the evidence, was lacking in empathy or a terrorist supporter (delete as applicable).
Sr Amaral's appeal and fund raising was portrayed as somekind of confidence trick and anyone who could not see that was (see above for detail).
Well now the appeal court has booted out the remaining 40% and awarded costs against the McCanns. So as it sits they are empty handed.
I find it funny that the "experts" had it so wrong. I am glad I am not as clever as them.
I look forward however to the explanation of how this is really another major victory for the McCanns I am too dim to see.

Madeleine's fate was a tragedy; we don't know what happened but it is probable she died in 2007.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:04:24 PM
Is there any way the mccanns funds can now be seized by the court as Amaral's were ?

Now that would be a taste of their own medicine.

Can't see that happening unfortunately.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
Is there any way the mccanns funds can now be seized by the court as Amaral's were ?

Now that would be a taste of their own medicine.

Can't see that happening unfortunately.

as the mccanns funds are in the UK and the court is in portugal the answer is no
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:08:46 PM
I see the comments section in the Mail is overwhelming.

 @)(++(* they will  blame us   for  it
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 06:09:01 PM
Does anyone know what grounds there might be for an appeal?

'Experts' were quick to come forward and state why Amaral wouldn't be able to appeal, so presumably these same experts will have an opinion on this next level of appeal.

What?

The present joint enquiry thinks there might be a chance of finding Madeleine alive and Amaral wrote a book saying she is definitely dead and the McCannsdunit.

Says everything ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:09:06 PM
Is there any way the mccanns funds can now be seized by the court as Amaral's were ?

Now that would be a taste of their own medicine.

Can't see that happening unfortunately.

What a nasty thing to say,   the McCann's fund to search for Madeleine.   Now I know you don't care at all about Madeleine do you?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:10:23 PM
What a nasty thing to say,   the McCann's fund to search for Madeleine.   Now I know you don't care at all about Madeleine do you?

well if  GA sues them   which  he has every  right too it will  have to come out of  it
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:10:50 PM
What a nasty thing to say,   the McCann's fund to search for Madeleine.   Now I know you don't care at all about Madeleine do you?

They are not using the fund ARE THEY ?

Haven't you heard of the SY Investigation ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:11:35 PM
Amaral wrote a book on the back of a missing child,   saying her parents hid her body.

If I were the McCann's I would make sure he didn't get a penny of his dirty money,  how can anyone see justice here.   

SY are searching for Madeleine and hope to find her alive,  no thanks to Amaral who convinced people she is dead and didn't need searching for.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 06:12:02 PM
I notice the ones who are happy about Amaral the man who has stated that Madeleine is dead are the same ones who were not happy about the report from SY saying they hope to find Madeleine alive,  says it all really.

Amaral was entitled to express his opinion. At the moment that's official. People are pleased that he won't have to pay half a million Euros for that, regardless of what his opinion was.

People would be very pleased if Madeleine was found alive, they just aren't convinced that it's going to happen. Particularly as SY seem to have no idea where to look.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 06:12:07 PM
Actual court costs are pretty much PAYG.
The McCanns will owe Dra Duarte something but we don't know how that is divvied up, and they now owe for Sr Amarals legal costs unless it is overturned by the next appeal. It is doubtful they will pay anything until the final appeal is done and dusted.
There is potential for the belt to come off in a quite spectacular manner.

Meanwhile a nice little earner for Duarte regardless of the outcome.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:12:40 PM
They are not using the fund ARE THEY ?

Haven't you heard of the SY Investigation ?

It is still there for a search if SY don't find her.    You want that find to be frozen so that they can't use it to search for Madeleine, shame on you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
Amaral wrote a book on the back of a missing child,   saying her parents hid her body.

If I were the McCann's I would make sure he didn't get a penny of his dirty money,  how can anyone see justice here.   

SY are searching for Madeleine and hope to find her alive,  no thanks to Amaral who convinced people she is dead and didn't need searching for.

The mccanns bear the full responsibility for this case.

Try to bear that in mind.

I suggest you also avoid libeling Amaral on a public forum.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
What?

The present joint enquiry thinks there might be a chance of finding Madeleine alive and Amaral wrote a book saying she is definitely dead and the McCannsdunit.

Says everything ....

This has all been dealt with before - are there any new grounds?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:15:18 PM
It is still there for a search if SY don't find her.    You want that find to be frozen so that they can't use it to search for Madeleine, shame on you.

Well apart for the morning after Madeleine disappeared, they didn't search for her.

Meanwhile, Amaral who tried to solve the case had his funds seized.

You are a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:15:51 PM
The mccanns bear the full responsibility for this case.

Try to bear that in mind.

I suggest you also avoid libeling Amaral on a public forum.

he can   legally  sue anyone now  and   i hope he  does
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 06:15:56 PM
dont  deny it you love gerry and kate because in your eyes they  are educated and wonderful  where as  people without bias  see them  for what they are

oh dear....if only I could enjoy the same freedom of speech as amaral and tell you what I think of you
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 06:16:08 PM
If the appeal decision is shown to be as reported, new ground rules will need to be observed in comments about him. As has already been mentioned, he may decide to pursue those posting on the Internet for libel.

Why?

The adulterer who stole from his own brother, covered for PJ colleagues who beat the cr*p out of Leonor Cipriano and wrote a book about an investigation he coordinated into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains the adulterer who stole from his own brother, covered for PJ colleagues who beat the cr*p out of Leonor Cipriano and wrote a book about an investigation he coordinated into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:17:35 PM
dont  deny it you love gerry and kate because in your eyes they  are educated and wonderful  where as  people without bias  see them  for what they are   davel  you   have  been almost   stalkish and   your agressiveness on this forum has not gone unnoticed

Basically davel was gloating that Amaral would be destroyed by the appeal.

He hasn't the [moderated] to admit the truth, but that doesn't surprise me in the least.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 06:18:40 PM
Why?

The adulterer who stole from his own brother, covered for PJ colleagues who beat the cr*p out of Leonor Cipriano and wrote a book about an investigation he coordinated into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains the adulterer who stole from his own brother, covered for PJ colleagues who beat the cr*p out of Leonor Cipriano and wrote a book about an investigation he coordinated into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann ....

Are you putting that forward as a ground for appeal?    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Angelo222 on April 19, 2016, 06:19:06 PM
@)(++(*   davel   i almost feel sorry for you i knew  you would be devastated

I notice your faith in humanity has been reinstated Carly  @)(++(*

davel certainly didn't call that one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:19:57 PM
I notice your faith in humanity has been reinstated Carly.  @)(++(*

sure  has   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:20:15 PM
I notice your faith in humanity has been reinstated Carly.  @)(++(*

Nice one Angelo. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
Are you putting that forward as a ground for appeal?    @)(++(*

No.

Just making some observations about Amaral.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:21:48 PM
No.

Just making some observations about Amaral.

better be careful he has been found innocent in a  court of law he could  sue you and others
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Angelo222 on April 19, 2016, 06:24:29 PM
But, but, but,surely  Davel is NEVER wrong

It appears so but WRONG it is.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 06:24:46 PM
Be careful ferryman about LIBEL.

I suggest the forum mods, check your posts for that.

No Libel there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:25:14 PM
I suggest the mccanns, their lawyers and 'supporters' read through this carefully.

Quite interesting.


http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:25:55 PM
It appears so but WRONG it is.

i  think  any hearsay about  GA unrelated to the mccan case  should be banned on this forum   and thats  all it is gossip  to make  him look bad
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:26:24 PM
No Libel there.

Let's see what Amaral's lawyers say in due course.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:27:18 PM
3. Under articles 635, number 4, and 639, number 1, of the Civil Process Code, the matter of the appeal is delimited by the appellant’s conclusions.

The matter subject to decision is thus essentially centred on the evaluation of the alleged wrongfulness and the responsibility that derives from it, imputed to the 1st defendant [Gonçalo Amaral], now the appellant, of the publication, by the 2nd and the 3rd defendants, equally appellants, of the works at stake.

As far as personality rights are concerned, article 26, number 1, of the Constitution states that everyone has a right to a good name and reputation and to the protection of the intimacy of private and family life.

The same fundamental law protects, with equal dignity, freedom of expression, by stating under number 1 of article 37 that everyone has a right to express and to publicise their thoughts in words, image or by any other means, as well as the right to inform, to inform oneself and to be informed, without impediment or discrimination.

And also, under number 2 of article 38, freedom of press, by consecrating freedom of expression and of creation by journalists and their collaborators.

Number 2 of article 18 establishes, in the case of conflict between fundamental rights, that any legal restrictions to those rights must be limited to whatever is necessary in order to safeguard other rights or interests that are constitutionally protected.

On the other hand, in ordinary law, article 70 of the Civil Code consecrates, as a principle, that the law protects individuals against any illicit offence or threat to offend their physical or moral integrity, while article 80 of the same diploma states that everyone must respect someone else’s intimacy of private life.

Whenever there is a collision of rights that are equal or of the same kind, the holders must, under number 1 of article 335, cede as necessary in order for all of them to produce their effect equally, without greater damage for any one of them – while (under number 2 of the same article), if the rights are not equal or are of different species, the one that is considered superior must prevail.

Therefore, and as the dominant jurisprudence understands the matter:

“One of the limits to the freedom of information, which therefore is not an absolute right, is the safeguard of the right to a good name. Journalists, the media, are bound by ethical and deontological duties, and duties of rigour and objectivity.

- The media have the right, the social function, of spreading news and giving critical or non-critical opinions, and it is important that they do so with respect for the truth and for someone else’s intangible rights, as are personality rights.

- The right to honour, in a broader sense, and the right to freedom of press and of opinion are traditional areas of conflict.

- Criticism has a boundary in the rights of its targets, but it remains legitimate if it is sharp, steely, as long as it is not injurious, because so often therein lies the style of the author.

- To criticise implies to reproach, fault-finding that is aired in the media only stops being legitimate as a manifestation of individual freedom when it expresses objective antijuricity, violating rights that are extremely personal and which effect, in a more or less lasting manner according to men’s memory, assets that need to be preserved as are the rights here at stake, to honour, to a good name and to a social standing” (decision by the Superior Court, dated 20/1/2010, www.dgsi.pt)

In the case at hand, apart from the reporting of the facts that are part of the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, an analysis of the book and of the rest of the published material finds that the now 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] therein sustains the thesis that an abduction did not take place, but rather the accidental death of the child, followed by a cover-up – through the concealment of her cadaver and the simulation of that crime – by plaintiffs Gerald and Kate McCann, now the subjects of the appeal.

It results from the aforementioned publication that the means of evidence and the indicia that it reports to are, essentially, those referred to and documented in the respective criminal enquiry.

Nevertheless, the exposed thesis, that the child died accidentally and that fact was concealed by the parents, who have broadcast, in order to deceive, the hypothesis of an abduction, is not new – the same is equally contained in the report which is mentioned under number 9 of the proven facts, determining the arguido constitution of said subjects of appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann], and was, after a copy of the inquiry was made public, published in the media (numbers 65 and 66 of proven facts).

As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion.

And because from the proved matter results that – apart from it being about facts that have been profusely published in the inquiry and even publicised through an initiative of the Republic’s Prosecutor General’s Office – it was the subjects of the appeal themselves [Kate and Gerry McCann] who, benefiting from an easy access, multiplied themselves in interviews and interventions in national and international media, one must conclude that it was them who, voluntarily, limited their rights to reservation and to the intimacy of private life.

By proceeding in this manner, they opened the way for anyone to equally express an opinion about the case, contradicting their thesis – without losing their right to exercise a legitimate, and constitutionally consecrated, right to an opinion and a freedom of expression of thought.

On the other hand, we cannot see how the right of the subjects of this appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann] to benefit, following their constitution as arguidos, from the guarantees of the penal process – including the right to a fair investigation and the right to freedom and safety – may be offended by the contents of a book which, in its essence, describes and interprets facts that are part of an inquiry whose contents have been published.

Nothing opposes that, although they have not been deemed sufficient to lead to a criminal charge, said facts are subject to diverse appreciation, namely in a work of literary nature.

Therefore, and because it is contained within consecrated rights, namely under numbers 37 and 38 of the Constitution, the publication at stake must be considered lawful.

Nonetheless, it is understood, in the decision under appeal, that because the 1st appellant, Gonçalo Amaral, was, until October 2, 2007, the coordinator of the criminal investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, he was, after his retirement on the 1st of July, 2008, subject to the duties of secrecy and reserve that are imposed to the employees that serve the Polícia Judiciária.

And, under such terms, although the introductory note in the book invokes personal reasons, in a situation of conflict with the rights to a good name and reputation of the subjects of the appeal, the appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] could not benefit, faced with the results of the investigation, of a broad and full freedom of expression – and thus his conduct would be unlawful, under article 484 of the Civil Code.

From what was above said about this matter, it is clearly understood that such argumentation cannot be sustained.

In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

In the absence of its primordial presupposition it must therefore be concluded against the previous decision, due to the lack of precedence of any of the requests that have been formulated by the current subjects of the appeal [Kate and Gerry McCann] – while the re-appreciation of the matter of fact that had been secondarily requested remains impaired.

4. From the above mentioned, it is agreed, in accordance with both appeals, to revoke the appealed decision and, considering the action against them to be unfounded, to acquit the appealing plaintiffs of the totality of the requests. The costs, in both instances [courts] are to be paid by the appealed subjects [Kate and Gerry McCann].

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 06:27:22 PM
It appears so but WRONG it is.

Its a drawback of being dogmatic - the dogs can come back and bite you in the bum when you least expect it  8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 06:29:58 PM
better be careful he has been found innocent in a  court of law he could  sue you and others

How can he? His country's court has just declared the right to freedom of speech, irrespective of content, exceeds the right of a person's good name.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:30:20 PM
Its a drawback of being dogmatic - the dogs can come back and bite you in the bum when you least expect it  8(0(*

well keela and eddie     told the truth long  ago.....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:31:05 PM
How can he? His country's court has just declared the right to freedom of speech, irrespective of content, exceeds the right of a person's good name.

thats portugal law not uk he could still sue people in the  uk  most country laws  are diffrent from each others
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 06:33:07 PM
well keela and eddie     told the truth long  ago.....

OMG...how did the dogs get into this thread.   8()(((@#
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:33:23 PM
How can he? His country's court has just declared the right to freedom of speech, irrespective of content, exceeds the right of a person's good name.

The mccanns damaged their 'good' name by their actions in that holiday in Portugal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:34:12 PM
OMG...how did the dogs get into this thread.   8()(((@#

 8)><( its  3.33am here john  forgive me  i know not what i do besides jassi brought it up!!! 8)-)))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 06:35:08 PM
Members are reminded to keep posts civil and to the point.  Moderators should remove anything which fails to meet this requirement.  TY
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 06:35:54 PM
8)><( its  3.33am here john  forgive me  i know not what i do besides jassi brought it up!!! 8)-)))

I forgive you.   £4%4%
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 06:37:21 PM
What libel?   It isn't libel if what you say is true,  he did convince people that Madeleine was dead and didn't need searching for.

How do you know that he convinced anybody?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 06:38:13 PM
What libel?   It isn't libel if what you say is true,  he did convince people that Madeleine was dead and didn't need searching for.

It was a thesis Lace.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:39:25 PM
It was a thesis Lace.

also his opinion john which isnt illegl as the courts have  rightly  found
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 06:39:40 PM
What libel?   It isn't libel if what you say is true,  he did convince people that Madeleine was dead and didn't need searching for.

For goodness sake people can and did make up their own minds about the case without Amaral, who need I remind you was only involved in the case for 3 months as coordinator, and other members of the PJ shared his views.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 06:40:08 PM
It was a thesis Lace.

It wasn't a thesis...he stated his opinions as facts
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 06:40:35 PM
How do you know that he convinced anybody?

i dont need to be convinced by  anybody about what i    think
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 06:40:49 PM
OMG...how did the dogs get into this thread.   8()(((@#

It's a variation on Godwin's Law.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 06:41:17 PM
also his opinion john which isnt illegl as the courts have  rightly  found

it was a civil court
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:46:39 PM
How do you know that he convinced anybody?

The mood changed in Portugal as soon as they were made arguido's,   are you saying that his book didn't change anyone's mind about the McCann's?   It set everything going. IMO
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:52:01 PM
It was a thesis Lace.

John,  please explain to me what the title 'The Truth of the Lie'  means.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 06:54:26 PM
so??   GA  still  won

I think he should do the decent thing and donate it to a children's charity.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 06:54:43 PM
Are you putting that forward as a ground for appeal?    @)(++(*

I thought it was his defence in case swarthy legal types shove envelopes in his mit.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 06:56:48 PM
i  think  any hearsay about  GA unrelated to the mccan case  should be banned on this forum   and thats  all it is gossip  to make  him look bad

It didn't work any too well did it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 06:57:20 PM
I think he should do the decent thing and donate it to a children's charity.


I don't think there is anything to donate. He hasn't 'won' any money from the McCanns, other than costs, which go to the court & lawyers.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 06:57:38 PM
so??   GA  still  won

you used the word illegal..never mind
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 07:02:33 PM
Oh no! tic toc has changed sides  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 07:04:12 PM
jassi i find it highly unlikley that if the  mcanns appeal they will win  the  portugese court    has  found   in     his favour  so  wouldnt  it be  risky   forthe mcanns to  start this again??( sorry thinking out loud  lol)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 07:04:34 PM
Oh no! tic toc has changed sides  @)(++(*


In that case, shouldn't it be toc tic?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 07:12:49 PM
Human nature being what it is.


Too enigmatic for me, I'm afraid, so I'll pass.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2016, 07:13:12 PM
he has a right to tell his story

No right to say it is true though.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 07:19:02 PM
I wonder if the presses at "War and Peace" are working OTs knocking out a shedful of books ready to hit the shelves?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 07:24:33 PM
I wonder if the presses at "War and Peace" are working OTs knocking out a shedful of books ready to hit the shelves?

Why would they be doing that?

The status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 07:34:43 PM
Why would they be doing that?

The status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.

That is assuming they will be allowed to appeal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 07:35:57 PM
Why would they be doing that?

The status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.

The report in the Mail on Line is just scurrilous gossip then?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 07:40:16 PM
Opinion?

Amaral completely misrepresented the role and investigative work of Mark Harrison fact

Amaral contradicted the conclusions of the Portuguese prosecutors fact

Amaral claims to have contradicted and corrected Stuart Prior on interpretation of the forensic results.

Amaral claims Stuart Prior rang the FSS to berate them on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest

Pray tell where has the thesis, note the word thesis, of accidental death been disproved ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 07:41:29 PM
Why would they be doing that?

The status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.

Any appeal made by the parents does not suspend this decision and Guerra & Paz have already announced that the book will be out on the shelves for sale by next week.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 07:42:40 PM
Pray tell where has the thesis, note the word thesis, of accidental death been disproved ?


imo there are no grounds for appeal the book and. His opinion have been found not illegal
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 07:43:28 PM
Any appeal made by the parents does not suspend this decision and Guerra & Paz have already announced that the book will be out on the shelves for sale by next week.

Excellent.

Good to hear.

Now will the McCann's have to reimburse Amaral and the publishers for any copies of the book which have been destroyed ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 07:43:34 PM
Pray tell where has the thesis, note the word thesis, of accidental death been disproved ?

if you suggest Maddie died in the apartment and her parents covered up her death..then that is libel
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 07:43:44 PM
The report in the Mail on Line is just scurrilous gossip then?

Here's the key part (of The Mail's report)

She [Isabel Duarte] said Madeleine's parents had instructed her to launch an appeal of their own which will be decided by Portugal's Supreme Court.

Whatever Amaral's rhetoric, the status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 07:44:30 PM

imo there are no grounds for appeal the book and. His opinion have been found not illegal

once again it was a civil trial...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 07:55:57 PM

No evidence of abduction

None whatever .....

Quote
The appeal verdict comes a day after the detective in charge of the search for Madeleine said police still believe she could be found alive.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46IfuUvL5
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 08:02:36 PM
The ultimate irony would be a (clinching) victory for Amaral in the libel trial the same day as Madeleine is found alive ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 08:18:59 PM
Well well well!

At last, and now the highly erroneous and premature predictions can stop,fat lady has sung.....

Good result all in all and about time some people put things into perspective..the mccanns case was over exagerrated and flawed

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 08:20:15 PM
Well well well!

At last, and now the highly erroneous and premature predictions can stop,fat lady has sung.....

Good result all in all and about time some people put things into perspective..the mccanns case was over exagerrated and flawed

Fat lady hasn't sung.

McCanns are appealing.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
Well well well!

At last, and now the highly erroneous and premature predictions can stop,fat lady has sung.....

Good result all in all and about time some people put things into perspective..the mccanns case was over exagerrated and flawed

theres already talks of appeal but with what money?? 8(0(*  GA  doesnt have to pay them a cent
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 08:22:33 PM
Fat lady hasn't sung.

McCanns are appealing.

The appeal has to be accepted.

Do you recognize those words ferryman ?

You used them about Amaral last time.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 08:23:35 PM
Here's the key part (of The Mail's report)

She [Isabel Duarte] said Madeleine's parents had instructed her to launch an appeal of their own which will be decided by Portugal's Supreme Court.

Whatever Amaral's rhetoric, the status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.

I already answered your previous post that the court decision is not suspended by any appeal made by the McCanns and that Guerra & Paz have announced that they will be putting the book back in the shops for sale.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 08:25:07 PM
theres already talks of appeal but with what money?? 8(0(*  GA  doesnt have to pay them a cent

Indeed Carly.

The McCann's owe Amaral and the other parties money for their legal fees.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:25:39 PM
I already answered your previous post that the court decision is not suspended by any appeal made by the McCanns and that Guerra & Paz have announced that they will be putting the book back in the shops for sale.

i heard as soon as next week and it  will sell like hotcakes   8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 08:27:20 PM
I already answered your previous post that the court decision is not suspended by any appeal made by the McCanns and that Guerra & Paz have announced that they will be putting the book back in the shops for sale.

Has the court also unfrozen Amaral's assets?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 08:33:35 PM
If it's true that his book can go  on sale again, then it would seem logical that his assets are unfrozen as well.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:35:50 PM
If it's true that his book can go  on sale again, then it would seem logical that his assets are unfrozen as well.

yep the  book  didnt prevent the search for maddie
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 08:41:59 PM
Has the court also unfrozen Amaral's assets?

That will  go with the judgement.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 08:43:36 PM
If it's true that his book can go  on sale again, then it would seem logical that his assets are unfrozen as well.

His assets will remain frozen until a final decision in the libel trial
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:44:23 PM
That will  go with the judgement.

GA  has  every right to have it unfrozen i would imagine??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:47:37 PM

Appeal court judges reject McCanns' ‘libel win’

Almost a year to the day that former PJ detective Gonçalo Amaral learnt that the parents of missing Madeleine McCann had successfully sued him over his book “The Truth of the Lie”, three appeal court judges have ruled that there is essentially no case to answer.

Ferreira de Almeida, Catarina Manso and Alexandrina Branquinho have unanimously overturned the ruling of a lower court, freeing Amaral from a €500,000 bill for damages and another €106,000 in legal costs.

The McCanns are “almost certain” to appeal - but the fact that the judges were united over their 16-page decision speaks volumes.

For further details, see our printed edition, out on Thursday morning.



http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 19, 2016, 08:49:43 PM
also not  getting the 5 millon pounds or whatever they asked  for  right?

Are you at all aware of what is going on?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:51:25 PM
Are you at all aware of what is going on?

yes are you??  loverly  comment in the daily mail uk btw
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 08:53:16 PM

Appeal court judges reject McCanns' ‘libel win’

Almost a year to the day that former PJ detective Gonçalo Amaral learnt that the parents of missing Madeleine McCann had successfully sued him over his book “The Truth of the Lie”, three appeal court judges have ruled that there is essentially no case to answer.

Ferreira de Almeida, Catarina Manso and Alexandrina Branquinho have unanimously overturned the ruling of a lower court, freeing Amaral from a €500,000 bill for damages and another €106,000 in legal costs.

The McCanns are “almost certain” to appeal - but the fact that the judges were united over their 16-page decision speaks volumes.

For further details, see our printed edition, out on Thursday morning.



http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99

I predict the Supreme Court will uphold this decision if asked to rule on it.  Portuguese society holds their right to free speech a long fought for privilege.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 08:54:38 PM
I predict the Supreme Court will uphold this decision if asked to rule on it.

i would imagine so if they all agreed  with each other
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 08:55:33 PM
I predict the Supreme Court will uphold this decision if asked to rule on it.

I agree on that, presuming it goes to the Supreme Court.

Maybe this time the mccanns will have to lick their wounds.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 09:02:52 PM
I agree on that, presuming it goes to the Supreme Court.

Maybe this time the mccanns will have to lick their wounds.

also their supporters.......... this isnt over   GA has every right to sue the mcanns and supporters and  newspapers if thats what he  wants to do
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 09:05:26 PM
also their supporters.......... this isnt over   GA has every right to sue the mcanns and supporters and  newspapers if thats what he  wants to do

Most certainly those who libeled him.

That could well include elements of the UK press.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 09:07:31 PM
Most certainly those who libeled him.

That could well include elements of the UK press.

also australian  newspapers and media and other  countries  because they got the sources  from the uk press
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 09:12:02 PM
I must say its good to see people power beating the MSM at their own game.

People power?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 09:12:48 PM
What is the deadline by which a supreme court appeal must be filed?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 09:27:46 PM
What is the deadline by which a supreme court appeal must be filed?

Does it matter? Its all over now....if the mccanns have any sense at all they will leave it now and save ther money for "the search"
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 09:31:30 PM
I predict the Supreme Court will uphold this decision if asked to rule on it.  Portuguese society holds their right to free speech a long fought for privilege.

What does "free-speech" have to do with the dissemination of the content of Amaral's book?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 09:39:21 PM
What does "free-speech" have to do with the dissemination of the content of Amaral's book?

Overly exaggerated,as well as misrepresented, as per norm,the judges have decided, thats it,accept it
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 09:44:02 PM
If the assets are unfrozen, we can expect to see a generous cheque being publicly donated to a children's charity as soon as.... plus the closure of PJGA & no further Crowdfunding appeals.....is that correct?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 09:44:40 PM
or to save face,its never going to happen

also they have to pay GA  and their own court fees where is that coming  from??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 09:45:44 PM
If the assets are unfrozen, we can expect to see a generous cheque being publicly donated to a children's charity as soon as.... plus the closure of PJGA & no further Crowdfunding appeals.....is that correct?


Probably not before it's known if an appeal will be allowed. 
There was talk of the remnants of the PJGA fund being donated, but not sure why anything else should be.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 09:46:22 PM
The judges also pointed out the injustice of the amount of the compensation awarded, considering the financial position of the parties.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 09:46:28 PM
If the assets are unfrozen, we can expect to see a generous cheque being publicly donated to a children's charity as soon as.... plus the closure of PJGA & no further Crowdfunding appeals.....is that correct?

legally it would be his money??? he can do what he  wants with it??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 09:47:13 PM
Here's the key part (of The Mail's report)

She [Isabel Duarte] said Madeleine's parents had instructed her to launch an appeal of their own which will be decided by Portugal's Supreme Court.

Whatever Amaral's rhetoric, the status quo remains until the final appeal is heard.

I never mentioned Amaral so why did you?.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 09:48:22 PM
legally it would be his money??? he can do what he  wants with it??

Not the funds in PJGA he can't, Carly.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 09:51:23 PM
If the assets are unfrozen, we can expect to see a generous cheque being publicly donated to a children's charity as soon as.... plus the closure of PJGA & no further Crowdfunding appeals.....is that correct?

If my understanding is correct, the assets will remain frozen until the final appeal is heard.

If (please God!) Madeleine were to be found alive (aside from being joyous news) it would be interesting to see how that development would affect a decision in (separate) proceedings that Amaral should be allowed to say (in a book) that she died at her parents' hands ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 09:51:47 PM


   
Madeleine McCann’s parents 'seething' as police chief wins libel appeal against them

    20:55, 19 Apr 2016
    Updated 20:56, 19 Apr 2016
    By Martin Fricker

Goncalo Amaral has won his appeal against an earlier ruling where he had to pay the McCann family £360,000 and £76,000 in interest

    404 shares

Getty Kate and Gerry McCann
Kate and Gerry McCann are said to be 'seething' at the court ruling

Madeleine McCann’s parents are “seething” after an ex-cop who led the bungled hunt for their daughter won a libel appeal against them.

Goncalo Amaral was ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £360,000 and £76,000 in interest last year after claiming in a book that they were responsible for her death and faked her abduction.

The decision means Amaral’s book, ‘The Truth of the Lie’, which is banned in the UK, could potentially go on sale in Portugal again.

Kate and Gerry originally sued over two defamatory allegations.

The first was that they were responsible for Maddie's death and the second that they faked her abduction, which they sued for libel and won the case.

The appeal judges found the earlier judge had overstepped the limits of Amaral’s freedom of expression.

PA Madeleine McCann
Madeleine McCann vanished while on a family holiday in 2007

The judges said the decision did not mean what he claimed was true, merely that it was his his “opinion”.

The couple, who fought a long-running court battle with the former police chief, vowed to spend “every penny” on the hunt for Madeleine.

Read more: Police chief wins appeal over libel loss against Madeleine McCann's parents

Amaral, the officer tasked with finding the three-year-old in 2007, put those plans on hold by lodging an appeal last May.

And it emerged three appeal judges had ruled in his favour - meaning the McCanns may never receive a penny.

Amaral’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues said: “This decision not only means my client hasn’t got to pay the 500,000 Euros to Madeleine McCann’s parents but equally importantly also allows him to express his freedom of speech and the chance to republish his book.”

PA Madeleine McCann
Goncalo Amaral's book about Madeleine McCann's disappearance may potentially be able to go on sale again

Editor Guerra e Paz are expected to rush out new copies so they can hit the shelves next week, netting Amaral a potential fortune.

The devastating blow came just 24 hours after one of Britain’s most senior police officers said Madeleine can still be found alive.

Amaral posted a 16-page judgement overturning the original Lisbon court judgement on an internet blog.

The final page - signed by three Tribunal da Relacao judges and dated April 19 - confirmed the ruling was being revoked.

Read more: Madeleine McCann can still be found alive, says top cop

They said that Amaral had a right to express his opinions in the 2008 book ‘The Truth of the Lie’.

The judges also said the McCanns paved the way for people to express their opinions” by giving newspaper and TV interviews themselves.

The allegations are merely Amaral's opinion and not fact and he won his appeal on a legal point surrounding his right to freedom of expression.

Reuters Goncalo Amaral
Former police inspector Goncalo Amaral may never have to pay the McCann's a penny

Kate and Gerry have now instructed lawyers to take their legal fight to Portugal’s Supreme Court.

If that final ruling goes against them, they will receive no damages from the man they blame for botching the police investigation.

A source close to the couple from Rothley, Leics, said: “They are seething over the ruling.

“It just drags on and on. As yet they’ve still not received a penny from him in libel damages.

“The timing couldn’t be any worse, just a few weeks away from the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance.”

PA Kate and Gerry McCann
Kate and Gerry McCann will now take their fight to Portugal's Supreme Court

They began their legal battle with Amaral in 2009 after he penned the book accusing them of being responsible for Madeleine’s death.

The former Portuguese police chief claimed his his opinion they faked her abduction after she died in their Praia da Luz holiday apartment.

‘The Truth of the Lie’ is currently banned from sale in the UK but was a best-seller in Portugal.

More than 120,000 copies were sold before it was removed from the shelves after the McCanns won an injunction.

A documentary based on the book was broadcast by Portuguese station TVI in April 2009 and was watched by 2.2million viewers.

Amaral was thrown off the Madeleine investigation after publicly criticising British police involved in the long-running case.

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Kate and Gerry’s lawyer Isabel Duarte said she was “disappointed” but not surprised by the appeal decision.

She said: “The three appeal court judges decided to overturn the original decision in favour of my clients.

“It was a unanimous decision. The original decision has been revoked. I and the McCanns are obviously disappointed.

“I am not surprised because one of the judges ruled in favour of a previous appeal overturning a ban on the book.

“We can appeal to the Supreme Court which we will do as we have instructions from our clients.”

Reuters Portuguese former police chief Goncalo Amaral
Portuguese former police chief Goncalo Amaral

It is understood the Supreme Court could take until next year to issue the final ruling.

A spokesman for the McCanns said: “The process is not over yet and they will lodge an appeal in the country’s Supreme Court.

“It is a matter for Kate and Gerry’s lawyers to deal with.”

Madeleine’s parents both gave evidence in the libel trial in Lisbon - which ended in victory for them last April.

After Amaral was given permission to appeal, he said: “We are in the face of a mere battle in a war that is far from over.”

Reacting to those comments, the McCanns said the ongoing legal battle caused them “anguish”.

PA Gerry and Kate McCann speak with journalists at the court in Lisbon
Gerry and Kate McCann speak with journalists at the court in Lisbon back in 2014

A source close to the couple, from Rothley, Leics, said: “Kate and Gerry are exasperated by this.

“Civil proceedings against Mr Amaral have already been going on for six years. It just drags on and on, and causes them even more anguish.”

Madeleine, who would turn 13 next month, vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment on the Algarve in 2007.

Kate and Gerry were dining with friends at a poolside tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club complex at the time.

The youngster’s twin siblings Amelie and Sean, who are now 11, were sleeping in the same room.

Kate, a GP, said earlier this year that she thinks her eldest daughter, who would turn 13 next month, is still in the Algarve.

PA Madeleine McCann in an Everton Football shirt.
Madeleine McCann in an Everton Football shirt.

But despite a massive police investigation in Portugal and a four-year probe by British cops, she has never been found.

Her parents were dismayed last year when the Scotland Yard investigation into her disappearance was scaled back.

But they were given a boost on Monday when Det Chief Supt Duthie insisted the £12m probe is “ongoing”.

He said: “There is ongoing work. There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive.

“That’s what we want and that’s what the family and the public want and that is why the Home Office continue to fund it.

“There is work that needs to be done still,” added the head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Major Crime Command.
DailyMirror



Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 19, 2016, 09:52:21 PM
Not the funds in PJGA he can't, Carly.

Unless he has personal control of them, it's not an issue to concern him. If others control this money, it will be for them to determine what happens to it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2016, 10:01:14 PM
if you suggest Maddie died in the apartment and her parents covered up her death..then that is libel

Obviously not in PT.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 10:04:27 PM
 @)(++(* why does  ferryman  keep talking about the final appeal this  was it!!!   who knows if   a supreme court one will go  ahead not to mention the mcanns have to pay GA and the courts    he owes them nothing
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 10:07:39 PM
The judges also pointed out the injustice of the amount of the compensation awarded, considering the financial position of the parties.

Absolutely, never in the realms of Portuguese justice has such a ridiculous amount been awarded in damages, I really don't know what Judge Maria de Melo e Castro was thinking to be honest.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2016, 10:12:52 PM
Absolutely, never in the realms of Portuguese justice has such a ridiculous amount been awarded in damages, I really don't know what Judge Maria de Melo e Castro was thinking to be honest.

Ensuring an appeal was allowed?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2016, 10:17:30 PM
Absolutely, never in the realms of Portuguese justice has such a ridiculous amount been awarded in damages, I really don't know what Judge Maria de Melo e Castro was thinking to be honest.

I thought her whole judgment was based on Sr Amaral not being allowed to profit from privileged information and so his gains should be taken away?  She basically threw everything else out.
 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 10:18:17 PM
Absolutely, never in the realms of Portuguese justice has such a ridiculous amount been awarded in damages, I really don't know what Judge Maria de Melo e Castro was thinking to be honest.

Untrue.

Financial compensation is limited in criminal libel; unlimited in civil (which the McCanns' action was).
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 10:18:54 PM
Ensuring an appeal was allowed?

A distinct possibility.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 10:19:35 PM
Untrue.

Financial compensation is limited in criminal libel; unlimited in civil (which the McCanns' action was).


and the  'award' was totally without precedent and completely unjustified.

Justice though, was served today.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 10:20:04 PM
Untrue.

Financial compensation is limited in criminal libel; unlimited in civil (which the McCanns' action was).

Such a large sum was unheard of in Portugal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 10:22:32 PM
Such a large sum was unheard of in Portugal.

Unheard of in criminal libel

These were civil proceedings.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 10:27:29 PM
...

...   Kate could write another book tomorrow and make a million..perhaps she will
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 10:28:22 PM
...

I was correcting John's confusion over civil and criminal proceedings.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 10:35:03 PM


I remember what he said about Kate, and he mentioned his wife as well. 8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 10:35:20 PM
...

i think the great british public will have a lot of sympathy for them ...we like fair play
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 10:37:53 PM
...

I was correcting John's confusion over civil and criminal proceedings.
How is John confused?
It doesnt matter, what is relevant is the judges decreed it was a ridiculous amount of money awarded.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 10:41:08 PM
Unheard of in criminal libel

These were civil proceedings.

Even in civil proceedings these amounts are unheard of.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
How is John confused?
It doesnt matter, what is relevant is the judges decreed it was a ridiculous amount of money awarded.

John has confused criminal libel (where monetary awards are, indeed, modest) with civil libel (the McCanns' action) where there are no prescribed limits (on financial compensation).
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 10:42:21 PM
Even in civil proceedings these amounts are unheard of.

Untrue.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 10:44:16 PM
Did the decision by MF to finance the obtaining of the 2009 injunction increase the amount of searching that has been done in the six and a half years since then?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 10:44:24 PM
I think Kate and Gerry will get a lot of support from the british public after this disgraceful verdict from the portuguese court...just wait and see
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 10:54:54 PM
Yours is.

I was correcting John's confusion over civil and criminal proceedings.

No confusion, I always said the award was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 10:56:24 PM
Is davel seething too *&*%£ he adores kate

That's three times you made me laugh out loud today Carly, you must desist.   8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 10:57:49 PM
That's three times you made me laugh out loud today Carly, you must desist.   8(0(*

Im a fun women 8()(((@#  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2016, 10:58:10 PM
I think Kate and Gerry will get a lot of support from the british public after this disgraceful verdict from the portuguese court...just wait and see

It's started already, just read the Mail comments.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 10:59:22 PM
It's started already, just read the Mail comments.  @)(++(*

Ever the hopeful is our davel
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:00:28 PM
No confusion, I always said the award was ridiculous.

Your personal opinion.

Not borne out by objective analysis of the facts.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 11:03:16 PM
Your personal opinion.

Not borne out by objective analysis of the facts.

What facts ferryman ?

The mccanns failed to prove many of their assertions last time.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:03:49 PM
Your personal opinion.

Not borne out by objective analysis of the facts.

Obviously the appeal court doesn't agree with you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:04:48 PM
Obviously the appeal court doesn't agree with you.

That is not an objective verdict.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 11:05:35 PM
"Chairman's statement for the year ending 31 March 2009 ... We have ... paid for legal representation ... in Portugal, enabling them to obtain an injunction banning Mr Amaral from repeating his fabricated claims ... "

Source: Companies House (I've snipped some names out of fairness, also corrected a spelling error)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:05:53 PM
That is not an objective verdict.

But a verdict and a unanimous one just the same.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 11:06:10 PM
Your personal opinion.

Not borne out by objective analysis of the facts.

Not just personal opinion, the judges opinion too, so yur post is wrong and yes, opinion borne out by FACTS
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:10:52 PM
But a verdict and a unanimous one just the same.

I'm sure you can spot the irony (not quite the right word, since irony implies humour) of the present, joint, enquiry holding hope of, yet, finding Madeleine alive and a separate decision in civil proceedings that Amaral is entitled to assert that Madeleine is dead, and even, that her parents know she is dead, caused her death, concealed her remains and launched a fabricated 'appeal' in their (dead!) daughter's name.

Can't you?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 11:12:07 PM
Your personal opinion.

Not borne out by objective analysis of the facts.

The judges made their own objective analysis of the facts and delivered their verdict.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:13:52 PM
The judges made their own objective analysis of the facts and delivered their verdict.

No they didn't
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:14:14 PM
I'm sure you can spot the irony (not quite the right word, since irony implies humour) of the present, joint, enquiry holding hope of, yet, finding Madeleine alive and a separate decision in civil proceedings that Amaral is entitled to assert that Madeleine is dead, and even, that her parents know she is dead, caused her death, concealed her remains and launched a fabricated 'appeal' in their (dead!) daughter's name.

Can't you?

The problem being that nobody knows what happened to Madeleine which renders all theories valid even now.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2016, 11:14:27 PM
They went extremely low from early 2007 meanng theyd lost the argument from the start,oh well, same old same old, must go now, soent too long on here already
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:15:31 PM
The problem being that nobody knows what happened to Madeleine which renders all theories valid even now.

No.

It doesn't
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 19, 2016, 11:16:53 PM
The judges made their own objective analysis of the facts and delivered their verdict.

Do you consider it to be in the interests of justice if one of the appeal court judges had been involved in a previous decision on the same case?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 11:17:19 PM
The problem being that nobody knows what happened to Madeleine which renders all theories valid even now.
no it doesn't John..you are totally wrong...certain scenarios have been ruled out
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:20:43 PM
no it doesn't John..you are totally wrong...certain scenarios have been ruled out

By whom?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 11:21:07 PM
By whom?

SY
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 11:21:39 PM
By whom?

and how does davel know this if the  police  dont??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:22:02 PM
By whom?

The Portuguese prosecutors, who ruled that there was no case for the McCanns to answer (for one).

Scotland Yard for another ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 19, 2016, 11:22:10 PM
SY

They have blatantly come up with nothing.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:22:17 PM
SY

That's even funnier than Carly's last.  SY haven't a bloody clue even now.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:24:22 PM
The Portuguese prosecutors, who ruled that there was no case for the McCanns to answer (for one).

Scotland Yard for another ....

Yes, on evidence which existed at the archive.  The prosecutors also stated that the McCanns had lost the opportunity to demostrate what they claimed happened.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 11:24:49 PM
That's even funnier than Carly's last.  SY haven't a bloody clue even now.

 8)-)))  I take that as an  compliment  i  think??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 19, 2016, 11:25:30 PM
no it doesn't John..you are totally wrong...certain scenarios have been ruled out

Is that the reason it's unsolved?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 19, 2016, 11:25:44 PM
...

clarrie was  here in  australia last week or a few  weeks ago most ignored  him  8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 19, 2016, 11:26:04 PM
It says alot when one of the more intellectual posts has been a comment on the size of a detective's bottom.
Back to serious discussion - is the book now be allowed to be marketed in the UK
(BTW I don't agree with everything in it)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 19, 2016, 11:26:44 PM
Yes, on evidence which existed at the archive.  The prosecutors also stated that the McCanns had lost the opportunity to demostrate what they claimed happened.

It's never necessary to demonstrate innocence ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 19, 2016, 11:30:46 PM
It's all very well having a laugh but name calling will not be tolerated.

Back to reasoned debate please. TY
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2016, 11:34:47 PM
It says alot when one of the more intellectual posts has been a comment on the size of a detective's bottom.
Back to serious discussion - is the book now be allowed to be marketed in the UK
(BTW I don't agree with everything in it)

I sincerely hope so.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 19, 2016, 11:38:10 PM
It says alot when one of the more intellectual posts has been a comment on the size of a detective's bottom.
Back to serious discussion - is the book now be allowed to be marketed in the UK
(BTW I don't agree with everything in it)

are you serious...words fail me... how little you understand libel if you think a portuguese judgement allows the book to be sold in the UK
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 19, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
you need to remember portugal is still a fascist state...this latest judgement is just another example

A fascist state which highly values freedom of opinion and expression? That's a new one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 02:24:40 AM
Now is Gonçalo Amaral who wants to sue the McCanns  ( google translated)

19.04.2016 at 18:00

        Google+
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    http://expresso.sapo.pt/dossies/diario/2016-04-19-Agora-e-Goncalo-Amaral-que-quer-processar-o-casal-McCann

CONTROVERSIAL. In the book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie", Gonçalo Amaral defends that the parents of British girl were involved in the case

luis faustino
Former inspector PJ feels morally and financially harmed by the fact that his book about Maddie's disappearance have been withdrawn from the market. The High Court gave him reason Tuesday
Hugo Franco

Hugo Franco

Gonçalo Amaral passes the counterattack after the Lisbon Court of the relationship absolve the case against the McCanns. The judges judges consider that the former Inspector of Judicial Police does not have to pay 500,000 euros in damages and may re-sell in stores his book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie" and a documentary issued by TVI, revoking the decision the Civil Court of Lisbon.

The ratio considers that Gonçalo Amaral has exercised his right to opinion, not being obliged to secrecy to be retired.

In the book, the author argues that Maddie's parents were involved in the disappearance and concealment of the child's corpse, removing the abduction theory.

To continue reading the article, click here
(Free access: just use the code that is on the cover of the magazine and the Express can use the Express app - iOS and Android - to photograph the code and access will be granted soon.)



Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 06:49:03 AM
MOD NOTE  Please be civil to each other and stick to the topic.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 07:32:51 AM
A fascist state which highly values freedom of opinion and expression? That's a new one.

A hallmark of a fascist state is one that supports the 'right' to accuse without foundation, which is precisely what Amaral's book does ...

Worse, it accuses in the face of foundation that directly confounds or contradicts the central tenets of the case.

How much more stark can it get than that the present (joint) enquiry holds out hope of finding Madeleine alive, when Amaral's book accuses the McCanns of direct involvement in Madeleine's death, knowing she is dead, covering up the 'fact' of her death and launching a fraudulent 'fund' in their (dead!) daughter's name.

Fascist and obscene (which is, of course, tautological, because everything fascist is, by definition, obscene) ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 07:36:16 AM
A hallmark of a fascist state is one that supports the 'right' to accuse without foundation, which is precisely what Amaral's book does ...

Worse, it accuses in the face of foundation that directly confounds or contradicts the central tenets of the case.

How much more stark can it get than that the present (joint) enquiry holds out hope of finding Madeleine alive, when Amaral's book accuses the McCanns of direct involvement in Madeleine's death, knowing she is dead, covering up the 'fact' of her death and launching a fraudulent 'fund' in their (dead!) daughter's name.

Fascist and obscene (which is, of course, tautological, because everything fascist is, by definition, obscene ...


You were quite happy with the last verdict and the one involving Cipriano.

Portugal is a DEMOCRACY.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 07:39:34 AM
A fascist state which highly values freedom of opinion and expression? That's a new one.

a fascist state that allows a policeman to libel two innocent parents but when a journalist criticised a politician...he was I believe jailed...that sort of fascist state


Defamation and libel are criminal offenses under Articles 180 and 181 of the penal code, and penalties are
increased by one half if the offended party is a public official. In May 2013, journalist Miguel Sousa Tavares
was under investigation for a comment he made during an interview with Jornal de Negocios calling
President Aníbal Cavaco Silva a clown. He faces up to three years in prison if found guilty
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 07:42:21 AM

You were quite happy with the last verdict and the one involving Cipriano.

Portugal is a DEMOCRACY.

ferryman     {   modified   }   would  be thrilled if the mcanns won  but now he is   being   a bitter person  and a sore loser because his heros lost   and the likes of ferry and davel must   remember  the mcanns left  the children GA didnt
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 07:48:11 AM
For goodness sake grow up.

You were quite happy with the last verdict and the one involving Cipriano.

Portugal is a DEMOCRACY.

btw  did you  see  the translated  article  where GA  says he is planning to sue people?? that he feels have damaged him ??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 07:51:11 AM
This was posted two days ago, which all makes a double farce of the latest twist in the libel trial

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/madeleine-mccann-detective-we-still-hope-to-find-her-alive-a3227561.html

How can the present joint enquiry hold out hope of finding Madeleine alive; Amaral write a book accusing the McCanns of direct involvement in Madeleine's death (and covering up the alleged 'fact' of her death) and this judgement be anything other than a hallmark of facism?

Answers on a postcard ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 07:54:02 AM
Like it or loathe it, a judgement which upholds the right to accuse and traduce in the face of all known facts is a fascist judgement, nothing more or less ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 07:56:32 AM
Like it or loathe it, a judgement which upholds the right to accuse and traduce in the face of all known facts is a fascist judgement, nothing more or less ...

absolutely...a book written by a convicted liar
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 07:57:42 AM
Yes I did. 8((()*/

have you worked out why he hasn't sued so far...then you might understand why he won't be suing
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 07:57:57 AM
btw  did you  see  the translated  article  where GA  says he is planning to sue people?? that he feels have damaged him ??

Yes I did. 8((()*/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 07:58:57 AM
have you worked out why he hasn't sued so far...then you might understand why he won't be suing

Well we know the accuracy of your predictions don't we. *&*%£
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 07:59:33 AM
have you worked out why he hasn't sued so far...then you might understand why he won't be suing

he can sue anybody he wants now davel he  won   the mcanns have to pay  HIM   
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 07:59:55 AM
Well we know the accuracy of your predictions don't we. *&*%£

have you worked out why he hasn't sued so far...obviously you don't understand
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:00:18 AM
Sky News , newspaper review on live TV.

Case mentioned.

The mccanns won't like what the reviewers said.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:00:37 AM
Well we know the accuracy of your predictions don't we. *&*%£

also i have read his  book is going back on sale next week and  it is predicted to be a   best seller  and he will get the  money  8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:01:10 AM
he can sue anybody he wants now davel he  won   the mcanns have to pay  HIM   

the case isn't over yet...the mccanns are appealing...haven't you heard. This case could go all the way to the European Court
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:01:26 AM
have you worked out why he hasn't sued so far...obviously you don't understand

Different ball game now.

Don't you understand. 8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:01:59 AM
Sky News , newspaper review on live TV.

Case mentioned.

The mccanns won't like what the reviewers said.


hmmm from what i heard they   said GA had a  right to his opinion??  and there was no abduction??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:02:29 AM
Different ball game now.

Don't you understand. 8)--))

GA  can sue anybody he  wants  too
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:02:36 AM
the case isn't over yet...the mccanns are appealing...haven't you heard. This case could go all the way to the European Court

The appeal has to be accepted by the high court and the way this is going, the remaining money in the fund will be drained.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:03:28 AM

hmmm from what i heard they   said GA had a  right to his opinion??  and there was no abduction??

 8((()*/

Just watched the clip from Sky News again.

Both reviewers made comments about the abduction not being real.

Holmes invited viewers comments.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:03:50 AM
The appeal has to be accepted by the high court and the way this is going, the remaining money in the fund will be drained.

as I have said...Kate could write a book tomorrow and make a million
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:03:59 AM
The appeal has to be accepted by the high court and the way this is going, the remaining money in the fund will be drained.

didnt  all the people making the decision about  GA agree with each other? therefore a  new appeal wouldnt  work
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:06:34 AM
as I have said...Kate could write a book tomorrow and make a million

Or she won 't.

You do realize from the comments sections in the papers how much the mccanns are disliked, don't you.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:08:47 AM
Just watched the clip from Sky News again.

Both reviewers made comments about the abduction not being real.

Holmes invited viewers comments.

Good to see more people stating on live tv what they really think.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:09:41 AM
Just watched the clip from Sky News again.

Both reviewers made comments about the abduction not being real.

Holmes invited viewers comments.

wow intresting ............. gloves are off  hey??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:09:51 AM
Just watched the clip from Sky News again.

Both reviewers made comments about the abduction not being real.

Holmes invited viewers comments.

who were the reviewers
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:10:54 AM
Or she won 't.

You do realize from the comments sections in the papers how much the mccanns are disliked, don't you.

You do realise that you are making yourself look a fool saying that the comments in the papers actually reflect what everyone thinks don't you?

They can spam all they like,  actually half of them don't seem to understand what Amaral has won,  a lot of them just say 'I wouldn't have left my children alone'   the usual comments.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:11:12 AM
wow intresting ............. gloves are off  hey??

Oh yes.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:12:19 AM
Just watched the clip from Sky News again.

Both reviewers made comments about the abduction not being real.

Holmes invited viewers comments.

Good to see more people stating on live tv what they really think.

The usual idiots responded did they?

They do know that both SY and the Portuguese police have said the McCann's are not involved do they.   What does that say for the Portuguese?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:12:33 AM
You do realise that you are making yourself look a fool saying that the comments in the papers actually reflect what everyone thinks don't you?

They can spam all they like,  actually half of them don't seem to understand what Amaral has won,  a lot of them just say 'I wouldn't have left my children alone'   the usual comments.

Not in the slightest.

You are in a dream if you believe the mccanns have popular support.

It is you making a fool of yourself.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:12:38 AM
You do realise that you are making yourself look a fool saying that the comments in the papers actually reflect what everyone thinks don't you?

They can spam all they like,  actually half of them don't seem to understand what Amaral has won,  a lot of them just say 'I wouldn't have left my children alone'   the usual comments.

absolutely true
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 08:14:15 AM
as I have said...Kate could write a book tomorrow and make a million

What would she add to the existing book?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:14:30 AM
The usual idiots responded did they?

They do know that both SY and the Portuguese police have said the McCann's are not involved do they.   What does that say for the Portuguese?

SY don't even know what crime occurred.

They haven't a clue.

I haven't heard the responses yet.

As to idiots, I know who they are. 8)-)))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:14:40 AM
Not in the slightest.

You are in a dream if you believe the mccanns have popular support.

It is you making a fool of yourself.

There are millions of people in this country alone Stephen,  if you think some anti hate mob are speaking for everyone then you really need to get out more.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:14:50 AM
...

There is only burning injustice to see (in this latest judgement).

Any other perspective is blinkered, distorted and plain wrong ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
What would she add to the existing book?

 8)-)))  maybe GA  might  write another book he is entitled too now isnt he??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:15:35 AM
SY don't even know what crime occurred.

They haven't a clue.

I haven't heard the responses yet.

As to idiots, I know who they are. 8)-)))

Well there is a bit of a hint when they say 'they hope to find Madeleine alive'   isn't there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:16:40 AM
8)-)))  maybe GA  might  write another book he is entitled too now isnt he??

Is he,  cite to where it says his book is being distributed please,  it's not over yet.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:16:54 AM
How immature,    now we can see it is not about a child called Madeleine at all,  it's all about getting back at the McCann's.

The immaturity is yours.

The mccanns are responsible for what happened in this case.

So you tell me then, where is Madeleine to be found ?

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:17:33 AM
Is he,  cite to where it says his book is being distributed please,  it's not over yet.

 look   for yourself its called google his books are being  released  next week in portugal   you  need to   read beyond what the uk media  tell you
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:18:15 AM
There is only burning injustice to see (in this latest judgement).

Any other perspective is blinkered, distorted and plain wrong ...

Nope.

The blinkering and mccann propaganda is typed on here by those such as you.

...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:19:13 AM
Noope.

The blinkering and mccann propaganda is typed on here by those such as you.

...

lace doest even know  GA  is having his books being put on the shelf  8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:19:44 AM
look   for yourself its called google his books are being  released  next week in portugal   you  need to   read beyond what the uk media  tell you

he released several other books and none of them sold..try google
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 08:19:52 AM
For a book of hers to make money it would need some big revelation beyond what was in the first. Unless you have any other ideas?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:20:51 AM
The immaturity is yours.

The mccanns are responsible for what happened in this case.

So you tell me then, where is Madeleine to be found ?

There you go,  you mimic what they say in the comment page of the red tops 'I wouldn't leave my children alone,  the McCann's are responsible'    usual comments.   DOH.

SY are investigating where Madeleine will be found Stephen wake up.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:20:57 AM
he released several other books and none of them sold..try google

the truth of the lie will be back on sale next week too davel get used to it
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:21:02 AM
lace doest even know  GA  is having his books being put on the shelf  8(0(*

The next few days should prove interesting to say the least.

Especially now as people are prepared to say what they really think on live tv.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:22:11 AM
The next few days should prove interesting to say the least.

Especially now as people are prepared to say what they really think on live tv.

its been  confrmed by people in portugal that   the truth of the lie is cleared to be put back in bookshops 8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:22:41 AM
The next few days should prove interesting to say the least.

Especially now as people are prepared to say what they really think on live tv.

Should be great for a laugh,  will you be there?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:22:51 AM
The next few days should prove interesting to say the least.

Especially now as people are prepared to say what they really think on live tv.

do you have  a link...do you understand the libel laws in the uk are quite different
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:24:32 AM
do you have  a link...do you understand the libel laws in the uk are quite different

Watch Sky News.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 08:25:04 AM
The next few days should prove interesting to say the least.

Especially now as people are prepared to say what they really think on live tv.

you seem to think this ruling affects what people can say in the uk...it doesn't
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 08:25:30 AM
you used the word confession..don't backtrack...confess to what

Who knows, from what I have read, I believe there is more to the story than the official line puts forward.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:28:23 AM
Who knows, from what I have read, I believe there is more to the story than the official line puts forward.

yep  and its  your  right to  think    what you  think
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:28:29 AM
you seem to think this ruling affects what people can say in the uk...it doesn't

So will the mccanns sue Sky News and the 2 reviewers ?

By the way, I've recorded the newspaper review.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:29:51 AM
and lace since you cant search for youself heres your cite

The former police chief had previously been ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £395,000 in damages in April last year after accusing them of faking their daughter's abduction.

The appeal decision now paves the way for Mr Amaral's book ‘The Truth of the Lie’ to be sold again in the shops in what would be a devastating setback for the McCanns.

Editor Guerra e Paz are expected to rush out new copies so they can hit the shelves next week, netting Amaral a potential fortune.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46LjjCZpb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 08:30:02 AM
...

I think it is very different to when they "won" the last trial. The sceptics didn't go full on attack mode then.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:31:25 AM
and lace since you cant search for youself heres your cite

The former police chief had previously been ordered to pay Kate and Gerry McCann £395,000 in damages in April last year after accusing them of faking their daughter's abduction.

The appeal decision now paves the way for Mr Amaral's book ‘The Truth of the Lie’ to be sold again in the shops in what would be a devastating setback for the McCanns.

Editor Guerra e Paz are expected to rush out new copies so they can hit the shelves next week, netting Amaral a potential fortune.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46LjjCZpb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The McCann's had better get their appeal in quick then,  I believe they are appealing to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:32:16 AM
The McCann's had better get their appeal in quick then,  I believe they are appealing to the Extreme Court.

You mean Supreme Court. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 08:35:28 AM
Is that the reason it's unsolved?

That is a distinct possibility.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:37:33 AM
You mean Supreme Court. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

 @)(++(* it  takes more  then a  week to  get into a  supreme cour   start an appeal etc  id  imagine   so GA will make some money and good for him
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 08:43:28 AM
You mean Supreme Court. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

Yes I did,  doing too many things at once,   saying that going  now as I have a life.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 08:48:05 AM
MOD NOTE  Just been pruning, pruning, and more pruning.

Stay on topic.  Cease the insults.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:48:34 AM
If, indeed, the present joint enquiry finds Madeleine alive and Amaral counter-sues, fascism will be alive-and-well in Portugal ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:50:11 AM
If, indeed, the present joint enquiry finds Madeleine alive and Amaral counter-sues, fascism will be alive-and-well in Portugal ....

You just don't get it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:52:51 AM
Just reading around, here and elsewhere.

Who are these sad sacks who revel in human misery, everyone's except their own?

mcann supporters have done it to GA  for 9 years   for  doing his job 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:53:42 AM
You just don't get it.

his bias and anger is clear  imo
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 08:53:58 AM
There are millions of people in this country alone Stephen,  if you think some anti hate mob are speaking for everyone then you really need to get out more.

I think you need to accept that many of those who believed the McCanns at first have changed their minds. The McCanns had tremendous support at the beginning but it has slowly disappeared. Kate's bike ride fundraiser demonstrated this because she struggled to reach her target and only reached it weeks after the event.

By comparison Amaral's fund, set up by Leanne Baulch exceeded it's target spectacularly. Not because everyone subscribed to his theory, not because they were duped and lied to by him but because many felt they had been duped and lied to by the McCanns.

They had begun to look like people who would countenance no dissent. If anyone questioned their version of events they were Carter-Rucked or they were labelled 'vile trolls' and 'sad inadequate people sitting in their bedrooms pouring out hate'. People began to own up to being trolls and being proud of it. They donated to Amaral's Fund as much to teach the McCanns a lesson as to help him. No-one knew if he would win, but they hoped he would and they made it possible for him to have that chance.

It now appears more than coincidental that the 'Madeleine may be alive' story emerged just before the 'McCanns lose appeal story'. A pattern has emerged over the years of encouraging stories being written just as discouraging stories are written. I wonder if they call DCS Duthie 'Mick'?

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:54:09 AM
mcann supporters have done it to GA  for 9 years   for  doing his job   im sure you    included

Where do you get the idea that it was, ever, Amaral's job to accuse and traduce without basis or foundation? 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:54:38 AM
Just reading around, here and elsewhere.

Who are these sad sacks who revel in human misery, everyone's except their own?

Which two people are responsible for this case ferryman ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
I think you need to accept that many of those who believed the McCanns at first have changed their minds. The McCanns had tremendous support at the beginning but it has slowly disappeared. Kate's bike ride fundraiser demonstrated this because she struggled to reach her target and only reached it weeks after the event.

By comparison Amaral's fund, set up by Leanne Baulch exceeded it's target spectacularly. Not because everyone subscribed to his theory, not because they were duped and lied to by him but because many felt they had been duped and lied to by the McCanns.

They had begun to look like people who would countenance no dissent. If anyone questioned their version of events they were Carter-Rucked or they were labelled 'vile trolls' and 'sad inadequate people sitting in their bedrooms pouring out hate'. People began to own up to being trolls and being proud of it. They donated to Amaral's Fund as much to teach the McCanns a lesson as to help him. No-one knew if he would win, but they hoped he would and they made it possible for him to have that chance.

It now appears more than coincidental that the 'Madeleine may be alive' story emerged just before the 'McCanns lose appeal story'. A pattern has emerged over the years of encouraging stories being written just as discouraging stories are written. I wonder if they call DCS Duthie 'Mick'?

 8@??)( sums it  up perfectly
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:57:23 AM
Which two people are responsible for this case ferryman ?

You think there might have been more than one person involved in Madeleine's abduction?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:00:56 AM
I think you need to accept that many of those who believed the McCanns at first have changed their minds. The McCanns had tremendous support at the beginning but it has slowly disappeared. Kate's bike ride fundraiser demonstrated this because she struggled to reach her target and only reached it weeks after the event.

By comparison Amaral's fund, set up by Leanne Baulch exceeded it's target spectacularly. Not because everyone subscribed to his theory, not because they were duped and lied to by him but because many felt they had been duped and lied to by the McCanns.

They had begun to look like people who would countenance no dissent. If anyone questioned their version of events they were Carter-Rucked or they were labelled 'vile trolls' and 'sad inadequate people sitting in their bedrooms pouring out hate'. People began to own up to being trolls and being proud of it. They donated to Amaral's Fund as much to teach the McCanns a lesson as to help him. No-one knew if he would win, but they hoped he would and they made it possible for him to have that chance.

It now appears more than coincidental that the 'Madeleine may be alive' story emerged just before the 'McCanns lose appeal story'. A pattern has emerged over the years of encouraging stories being written just as discouraging stories are written. I wonder if they call DCS Duthie 'Mick'?

 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:04:40 AM
You think there might have been more than one person involved in Madeleine's abduction?

What abduction ferryman ?

No evidence for that.

Try again.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 09:05:30 AM
If, indeed, the present joint enquiry finds Madeleine alive and Amaral counter-sues, fascism will be alive-and-well in Portugal ....

There is no joint inquiry as you well know. Isn't it against the rules to post misinformation? 'Always the possibilty that we will find Madeleine' doesn't translate as 'We're hot on the heels of a perpetrator' as you seem to believe. We hope we find her alive' doesn't mean 'we think she is alive' either. You seemed quite happy with Portuguese justice after the initial judgement. Strange how people can change their minds about things.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 20, 2016, 09:09:27 AM
MOD NOTE  Just been pruning, pruning, and more pruning.

Stay on topic.  Cease the insults.  Thank you.

Members have been warned several times now in respect of bad behaviour, any further silliness will attract sanctions.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 09:22:18 AM
If, indeed, the present joint enquiry finds Madeleine alive and Amaral counter-sues, fascism will be alive-and-well in Portugal ....
Just picked this as a single example of something that is annoying me. 

The idea that I live in a fascist country is nonsense, IMO.  For those who want to categorise Portugal as a fascist country in its entirety, start providing some cites.

For those who wish to categorise this court decision as a fascist decision, stop asserting this and start providing some supporting evidence.

My personal background on this is that I believed the decision would be upheld but with the amount reduced.  My recent visitor to Luz thought Amaral would win.  So I 'lost' and my visitor 'won'.

For the record, I have left every single post on this describing Portugal as a fascist country intact, while deleting dozens.  But I have had enough.  If you wish to describe where I live as a fascist country, or the decision as a fascist decision, please do not be affronted if I choose to challenge your ideas, not as a Mod but merely as a commentator.

This is not directed at Ferryman in particular.  It is a general message to those spraying 'fascist country' or 'fascist decision' about. 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 20, 2016, 09:33:53 AM
Just picked this as a single example of something that is annoying me. 

The idea that I live in a fascist country is nonsense, IMO.  For those who want to categorise Portugal as a fascist country in its entirety, start providing some cites.

For those who wish to categorise this court decision as a fascist decision, stop asserting this and start providing some supporting evidence.

My personal background on this is that I believed the decision would be upheld but with the amount reduced.  My recent visitor to Luz thought Amaral would win.  So I 'lost' and my visitor 'won'.

For the record, I have left every single post on this describing Portugal as a fascist country intact, while deleting dozens.  But I have had enough.  If you wish to describe where I live as a fascist country, or the decision as a fascist decision, please do not be affronted if I choose to challenge your ideas, not as a Mod but merely as a commentator.

This is not directed at Ferryman in particular.  It is a general message to those spraying 'fascist country' or 'fascist decision' about.

As a Portuguese citizen I applaud your comment.  8@??)(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 20, 2016, 09:33:56 AM
Have you read the full decision ferryman?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 20, 2016, 09:40:41 AM
a fascist state that allows a policeman to libel two innocent parents but when a journalist criticised a politician...he was I believe jailed...that sort of fascist state


Defamation and libel are criminal offenses under Articles 180 and 181 of the penal code, and penalties are
increased by one half if the offended party is a public official. In May 2013, journalist Miguel Sousa Tavares
was under investigation for a comment he made during an interview with Jornal de Negocios calling
President Aníbal Cavaco Silva a clown. He faces up to three years in prison if found guilty

You should keep up to date on this matter. Our petty, vain and arrogant ex-president made the complaint to the authorities (as Erdogan just did in Germany) and the courts had to look into it. Needless to say, the complaint was dropped, as the court ruled that MST was using his right to freedom of expression and opinion.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: John on April 20, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
The decision exists only in the Portuguese language at the moment, the translators are squirreling away as I type this.   So until such time as it can be translated, opinion as to its merits or otherwise are merely speculative.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 09:45:34 AM
Just picked this as a single example of something that is annoying me. 

The idea that I live in a fascist country is nonsense, IMO.  For those who want to categorise Portugal as a fascist country in its entirety, start providing some cites.

For those who wish to categorise this court decision as a fascist decision, stop asserting this and start providing some supporting evidence.

My personal background on this is that I believed the decision would be upheld but with the amount reduced.  My recent visitor to Luz thought Amaral would win.  So I 'lost' and my visitor 'won'.

For the record, I have left every single post on this describing Portugal as a fascist country intact, while deleting dozens.  But I have had enough.  If you wish to describe where I live as a fascist country, or the decision as a fascist decision, please do not be affronted if I choose to challenge your ideas, not as a Mod but merely as a commentator.

This is not directed at Ferryman in particular.  It is a general message to those spraying 'fascist country' or 'fascist decision' about.

Well said. Looking at the way the story has been controlled in the UK is far more worrying imo than anything which has occurred in Portugal. It is only because of the internet that people have been able to examine both sides of the story.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 20, 2016, 09:46:55 AM
Untrue.

Financial compensation is limited in criminal libel; unlimited in civil (which the McCanns' action was).

The reason the McCanns took the case to a civil court was because they wanted money, lots of it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:48:23 AM
The reason the McCanns took the case to a civil court was because they wanted money, lots of it.

An obscene response.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:50:10 AM
Have you read the full decision ferryman?

I don't know if I've read the whole judgment.

But I've read what's been posted on line.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:51:28 AM
An obscene response.

That is a matter of perspective.

Let's compare how much time they have spent in court to how much time they actually physically searched for their beloved daughter.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 20, 2016, 09:52:44 AM
The decision exists only in the Portuguese language at the moment, the translators are squirreling away as I type this.   So until such time as it can be translated, opinion as to its merits or otherwise are merely speculative.

I have read the acordão in Portuguese and it is a very complete and scathing decision, absolutely unforgiving, refuting all of the arguments in the lower court's verdict. Enjoyable reading.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:53:17 AM
Apparently, what we saw yesterday was the conclusion.

There is more to come.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 09:58:55 AM
I have read the acordão in Portuguese and it is a very complete and scathing decision, absolutely unforgiving, refuting all of the arguments in the lower court's verdict. Enjoyable reading.

Why go to the bother of having a lower court?  If three judges can do the job ... surely far more efficient and less time consuming just to let them get on with it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 09:59:17 AM
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:00:18 AM
mcann supporters have done it to GA  for 9 years   for  doing his job

Question for you carly,   would you ignore such a book if it had been written about you?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 10:00:32 AM
I have read the acordão in Portuguese and t is a very complete and scathing decision, absolutely unforgiving, refuting all of the arguments in the lower court's verdict. Enjoyable reading.

Enjoyable reading?

The present enquiry holds out hope of finding Madeleine alive.

Amaral wrote a book accusing her parents [edited], covering up the 'fact' of her death and launching a 'fraudulent' fund in their (dead!) daughter's name.

And this latest judgement supports his 'right' to do exactly that.

The judgemement ignores the Portuguese constitution, tramples rough-shod over remedies provided in Portuguese law for violation of basic human rights, and you found it 'enjoyable reading'?

[shakes head] ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:02:08 AM
The reason the McCanns took the case to a civil court was because they wanted money, lots of it.

Really?    They took it to court as Amaral was stating that Madeleine was dead,   they wanted their child to be searched for.

All the money was going into the fund for Madeleine.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:03:12 AM
Interesting bit in the Guardian on Line:

"Duarte said she intended to fight the decision at the supreme court, though she had not yet assembled her legal arguments".
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:05:53 AM
police write books around the world about cases all the time why does GA writing a book upset them so much i have  many true crime books by detectives on my kindle
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 10:07:28 AM
Why go to the bother of having a lower court?  If three judges can do the job ... surely far more efficient and less time consuming just to let them get on with it.

I think the clue lies in the name. Appeal court, where you can appeal against judgements.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 10:18:26 AM
Interesting bit in the Guardian on Line:

"Duarte said she intended to fight the decision at the supreme court, though she had not yet assembled her legal arguments".

IMO only after studying the appeal court judges' ruling would it be appropriate to assemble legal arguments ... so may be interesting but not extraordinary.
Mr Amaral's legal team took a considerable amount of time to assemble their appeal arguments against the libel (hotly disputed that it was libel) case lost by him (now accepted as libel that he has won his appeal ... ).

Who are these judges anyway?  We know that one has had dealings with this case some years ago ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:19:53 AM
do you have  a link...do you understand the libel laws in the uk are quite different

do you understand the libel laws in the uk are quite different.......................from what they were in 2007  ?{)(**

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:20:14 AM
police  write books around the world about cases all the time why does  GA writing a book upset them so much i have  many true   crime books by  detectives  on my  kindle

That's the problem though isn't it,    he wrote as fact what hadn't been proven to be fact,   even the title of the book 'The Truth of the Lie'   suggests he is telling the truth and that the McCann's lied.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 10:21:03 AM
Just picked this as a single example of something that is annoying me. 

The idea that I live in a fascist country is nonsense, IMO.  For those who want to categorise Portugal as a fascist country in its entirety, start providing some cites.

For those who wish to categorise this court decision as a fascist decision, stop asserting this and start providing some supporting evidence.

My personal background on this is that I believed the decision would be upheld but with the amount reduced.  My recent visitor to Luz thought Amaral would win.  So I 'lost' and my visitor 'won'.

For the record, I have left every single post on this describing Portugal as a fascist country intact, while deleting dozens.  But I have had enough.  If you wish to describe where I live as a fascist country, or the decision as a fascist decision, please do not be affronted if I choose to challenge your ideas, not as a Mod but merely as a commentator.

This is not directed at Ferryman in particular.  It is a general message to those spraying 'fascist country' or 'fascist decision' about.

My opinion is that portugal is  a fascist country..am I allowed to hold that opinion or do I have to satisfy you that it is valid...who decided you were the judge on this.
Amaral has accused the mccanns of crimes with no evidence to back his claims yet this is allowed..why is that
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 10:22:10 AM
My opinion is that portugal is  a fascist country..am I allowed to hold that opinion or do I have to satisfy you that it is valid...who decided you were the judge on this.
Amaral has accused the mccanns of crimes with no evidence to back his claims yet this is allowed..why is that

Note the word thesis.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:23:48 AM
My opinion is that portugal is  a fascist country..am I allowed to hold that opinion or do I have to satisfy you that it is valid...who decided you were the judge on this.
Amaral has accused the mccanns of crimes with no evidence to back his claims yet this is allowed..why is that

because  he is  allowed his opinon    and since you  were not there and he was you cant  judge  him
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 10:25:50 AM
Reports from Portugal that Amaral will contersue the mccanns  for 'moral and financial  losses'.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:26:05 AM
...

stephen  dont  you  think  this  anger at  GA   winning  is  pathetic he did his police  job police are  allowed to gave their own opinion   and police  do   and see things most people of the public  couldnt begin to deal  with
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:26:38 AM
stephen good  for  him   they  totally  disrupted his  and  his families lives
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:26:46 AM
I think you need to accept that many of those who believed the McCanns at first have changed their minds. The McCanns had tremendous support at the beginning but it has slowly disappeared. Kate's bike ride fundraiser demonstrated this because she struggled to reach her target and only reached it weeks after the event.

By comparison Amaral's fund, set up by Leanne Baulch exceeded it's target spectacularly. Not because everyone subscribed to his theory, not because they were duped and lied to by him but because many felt they had been duped and lied to by the McCanns.

They had begun to look like people who would countenance no dissent. If anyone questioned their version of events they were Carter-Rucked or they were labelled 'vile trolls' and 'sad inadequate people sitting in their bedrooms pouring out hate'. People began to own up to being trolls and being proud of it. They donated to Amaral's Fund as much to teach the McCanns a lesson as to help him. No-one knew if he would win, but they hoped he would and they made it possible for him to have that chance.

It now appears more than coincidental that the 'Madeleine may be alive' story emerged just before the 'McCanns lose appeal story'. A pattern has emerged over the years of encouraging stories being written just as discouraging stories are written. I wonder if they call DCS Duthie 'Mick'?

Kate McCann's bike ride fundraiser was for Missing People not for herself.

The appeal for Amaral deceived people,   they called it 'Justice for Madeleine'   some people [as they really don't follow the case]   thought that somehow Amaral was going to have the McCann's arrested when he won his appeal,  even now I read on twitter 'arrests soon then'   really these people have no idea.    That appeal Justice for Madeleine was even put out on Madeleine's birthday which was really disgusting.   I read on one of the papers comment section that one poster was watching Richard Halls video's,  so you have all the conspiracy groups commenting on there,  plus the nasty groups just organised to abuse the McCann's.    One person who has got a petition for SY with over a thousand signatures,  all of those probably commented.

They don't represent the general public,   they represent the mass who have made the Madeleine case their life ambition.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
stephen  dont  you  think  this  anger at  GA   winning  is  pathetic he did his police  job police are  allowed to gave their own opinion   and police  do   and see things most people of the public  couldnt begin to deal  with

I ask again carly if the book and Amaral's accusations were aimed at you would you just ignore it?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:30:54 AM
stephen good  for  him   they  totally  disrupted his  and  his families lives

Amaral disrupted his family life,  the McCann's did nothing to cause their marriage break up it was all Amaral's own doing,  stop listening to gossip.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 10:31:10 AM
I rather fancy that most of us wouldn't put ourselves in the position where anybody would feel the need to write a book about us, any more than we would feel the need to write a book defending our action in the first place.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:32:31 AM
I ask again carly if the book and Amaral's accusations were aimed at you would you just ignore it?

i wouuld never put myself in the position   lace  the mcanns started  all this 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 10:33:10 AM
because  he is  allowed his opinon    and since you  were not there and he was you cant  judge  him

then we should all be able to hold an opinion
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:33:33 AM
I rather fancy that most of us wouldn't put ourselves in the position where anybody would feel the need to write a book about us, any more than we would feel the need to write a book defending our action in the first place.

jinx jassi i just  wrote the same  thing  the mcanns started  all this  with   GA   and he won       and the mcanns and their supporters dont like that fact  simple
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:35:47 AM
Why go to the bother of having a lower court?  If three judges can do the job ... surely far more efficient and less time consuming just to let them get on with it.

You could say that about any legal system. In ours most cases are sorted in the lower courts.
Can you imagine the costs associated with your idea?
https://www.cps.gov.uk/victims_witnesses/going_to_court/court_case.html
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:38:32 AM
You could say that about any legal system. In ours most cases are sorted in the lower courts.
Can you imagine the costs associated with your idea?
https://www.cps.gov.uk/victims_witnesses/going_to_court/court_case.html

alice       this has been a eye  opener with mcann supporters reactions imo their true colours have  came  out
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 10:41:50 AM
alice       this has been a eye  opener with mcann supporters reactions imo their true colours have  came  out

It also highlights how close they are to the mccanns.

IMO of course.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 10:43:04 AM
It certainly seems the case that supporters only like the law when it works in their favour, or rather, that of the McCanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:43:23 AM
It also highlights how close they are to the mccanns.

IMO of course.

such sorrow and devastation for people  they dont know isnt normal  imo
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:43:37 AM
i wouuld never put myself in the position   lace  the mcanns started  all this

Never mind the reason what if Amaral was accusing you of hiding your childs body that your child was dead and not missing,  would you ignore the book.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:44:11 AM
IMO only after studying the appeal court judges' ruling would it be appropriate to assemble legal arguments ... so may be interesting but not extraordinary.
Mr Amaral's legal team took a considerable amount of time to assemble their appeal arguments against the libel (hotly disputed that it was libel) case lost by him (now accepted as libel that he has won his appeal ... ).

Who are these judges anyway?  We know that one has had dealings with this case some years ago ...

Well yesterday the appeal was being touted by some as a done deal. It was self evident to some of us, indeed posted though it may have been whooshed, that some fancy and expensive legal tap dancing would be necessary to come up with grounds for appeal.
Who are the judges anyway? Again self evident; duly appointed officers of the Portuguese judiciary. I doubt even in Portugal they make a habit of dragging itinerants off the street to sit in judgement in the court of appeal. Though I have reason to believe some posters who consider themsleves in the know, believe just that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:44:52 AM
It certainly seems the case that supporters only like the law when it works in their favour, or rather, that of the McCanns.

So you would ignore his book if it was directed at you?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 10:45:27 AM
There is a phone in on LBC discussing the case now.


http://www.lbc.co.uk/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 10:46:51 AM
I really can't believe the hypocrisy on this forum.

If someone says something about someone else they complain to the mods,  can you imagine if someone wrote a book about them saying they hid their child's body?    To say that anyone on here would just let the book go on sale and say nothing or maybe 'it's just what he thinks,  never mind'   is just rubbish.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 10:49:26 AM
So you would ignore his book if it was directed at you?

I'm quite sure nobody would ever wish to write a book about me - it would just so boring  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:50:27 AM
It certainly seems the case that supporters only like the law when it works in their favour, or rather, that of the McCanns.

Were we surprised?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 20, 2016, 10:51:11 AM
Be realistic. 

It is the hallmark of a fascist state that it suppresses the voice of the opposition whilst promoting the voice of the powers that be.  One thing Amaral definitely is not is one of the powers that be.  I doubt the McCanns are seen as the opposition. 

Your model is totally wrong.

How would you describe a state in which there has apparently never been a single case of a 'miscarriage of justice' - or where a court finds that a defenceless woman has been tortured whilst in police custody, but who remains in prison without even a hint of a re-trial  - (in fact actually has her sentence extended!)  - while the perpetrators go unpunished?    Does anyone actually believe that the PT police have never made mistake?  Surely not.

IMO in the scheme of things Portugal is still a very young democracy - and still has some way to go before it shakes off all its old habits.    It could start with reviewing the Secrecy Laws which imo have been regularly used and abused by elements of the PJ to influence public opinion  - but who then simultaneously use that same law to suppress any attempt by anyone to 'voice opposition' to that abuse by threatening them with imprisonment if they do so.   



Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:52:17 AM
I'm quite sure nobody would ever wish to write a book about me - it would just so boring  ?{)(**

 @)(++(*  the mcanns had a choice not  to  read his book just  like they had a choice not to  leave their children
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
Were we surprised?

I was surprised by the degree of venom that spewed forth from people , who allegedly, have absolutely no connection with the McCanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 10:55:18 AM
Kate McCann's bike ride fundraiser was for Missing People not for herself.

The appeal for Amaral deceived people,   they called it 'Justice for Madeleine'   some people [as they really don't follow the case]   thought that somehow Amaral was going to have the McCann's arrested when he won his appeal,  even now I read on twitter 'arrests soon then'   really these people have no idea.    That appeal Justice for Madeleine was even put out on Madeleine's birthday which was really disgusting.   I read on one of the papers comment section that one poster was watching Richard Halls video's,  so you have all the conspiracy groups commenting on there,  plus the nasty groups just organised to abuse the McCann's.    One person who has got a petition for SY with over a thousand signatures,  all of those probably commented.

They don't represent the general public,   they represent the mass who have made the Madeleine case their life ambition.

It desn't matter what Kate was fundraising for. Her 'name' should have helped raise money easily with all the supposed support and sympathy she allegedly enjoys. It didn't.

How is it that those who support the McCanns insist that anyone who doesn't is 'deceived' and 'doesn't understand' the case? The inference being that only the supporters are capable of recognising truth and understanding the complexities of the case. I didn't see any evidence of this superior intellect when the supporter's were predicting that Amaral had no grounds to appeal and that he would lose if he was allowed to appeal. Whoops! Now it's all the fault of a 'fascist state'. Oh dear, talk about abuse.....

The supporters don't represent the general public either, don't forget.



Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:55:30 AM
I was surprised by the degree of venom that spewed forth from people , who allegedly, have absolutely no connection with the McCanns.

so was i they have been openly hostile and agressive    why do they care so much  about  people they appently  dont  know?? i just find it  strange   
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 10:56:46 AM
Reports from Portugal that Amaral will contersue the mccanns  for 'moral and financial  losses'.

reports from whom..he's been claiming this for years
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 10:57:24 AM
Well yesterday the appeal was being touted by some as a done deal. It was self evident to some of us, indeed posted though it may have been whooshed, that some fancy and expensive legal tap dancing would be necessary to come up with grounds for appeal.
Who are the judges anyway? Again self evident; duly appointed officers of the Portuguese judiciary. I doubt even in Portugal they make a habit of dragging itinerants off the street to sit in judgement in the court of appeal. Though I have reason to believe some posters who consider themsleves in the know, believe just that.

Fancy and expensive tap-dancing?

Let's see.

Amaral has a right to say anything that's in the files (true or not).

A complication is that stuff in the files is contradicted by other stuff, also, in the files.

So it's in the files (Almeida's interim report) that Eddie 'scented death' all over the place.

And it's in the files (Grime and Harrison) that no evidential reliability can be placed on the reactions of the dogs.

Does that entitle Amaral to say Eddie 'scented death' all over the place?

Or doesn't it?

It shouldn't, because there ought to be a general acceptance that Grime and Harrison have a clearer view (and more complete understanding) of what they are talking about than Almeida.

Amaral lied (about contradicting and correcting Prior on interpretation of the forensic results).

Amaral lied (about the role and pronouncements of Mark Harrison).

Amaral says Madeleine is dead when the present enquiry says she may be alive.

Amaral thinks calpol is a 'sleeping solution' (sedative).  It is not.

Amaral's final chapter directly contradicts the conclusions of the Portuguese prosecutors (from the shelved enquiry).
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 10:58:40 AM
such sorrow and devastation for people  they dont know isnt normal  imo

I would say I am quite normal and anyone who thinks I am not must have problems of their own
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 11:00:54 AM
I really feeling like doin' a George Bush Sr here  ?{)(**
"Now read my lips"

"The Portuguese Court of Appeal has found in Sr Amaral's favour".
What posters on here feel about it, me included, is bleedin' irrelevant.
It makes no difference the judgement is what it is.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 11:02:00 AM
so was i they have been openly hostile and agressive    why do they care so much  about  people they appently  dont  know??

Why do you hold a man you don't know in such high esteem after he was deemed by his superiors to be a liability to the investigation of a missing child?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:02:11 AM
I really feeling like doin' a George Bush Sr here  ?{)(**
"Now read my lips"

"The Portuguese Court of Appeal has found in Sr Amaral's favour".
What posters on here feel about it, me included, is bleedin' irrelevant.
It makes no difference the judgement is what it is.

 8@??)(  exactly    alice  and it wont  change   and   all the  wailling  and knashing of teeth  wont  either
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:02:44 AM
I really feeling like doin' a George Bush Sr here  ?{)(**
"Now read my lips"

"The Portuguese Court of Appeal has found in Sr Amaral's favour".
What posters on here feel about it, me included, is bleedin' irrelevant.
It makes no difference the judgement is what it is.

PRECISELY.

A judgement has been made.

The supporters were happy and gloating last time.

They need to get over it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 11:03:07 AM
Ex-police chief who claimed McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance 'to sue' couple

Goncalo Amaral announces legal action, with the McCanns already reeling from losing £430k in libel fees

THE EX-police chief who claimed "the McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" has announced he is planning to sue the couple for compensation in a new blow for the couple.

Goncalo Amaral yesterday won an appeal against paying the Brit parents 500,000 euros (£430,000), after a year-long battle against their libel win over his explosive book 'Maddy,The Truth of the Lie'.

The former detective, who worked on the four-year-old's disappearance case in the opening days, claimed the McCanns "covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" in the hurtful book.

Gerry and Kate previously won a libel case against the damning claims, but were heartbroken last night after this was overturned by three judges in an appeal.

The parents had planned to put the £430,000 into their Find Maddie fund.

Amaral's lawyer yesterday announced after the libel U-turn he would sue the McCanns for damages, claiming the couple’s long-running court fight had cost his client money and harmed his reputation.

Miguel Cruz Rodrigues told respected Portuguese daily Expresso: “We are going to advance with a compensation claim against the McCanns.

“My client has suffered years of prejudice and losses.”

He added today: “The Lisbon appeal court decision reinforces our aim to go for a claim against the McCanns for damages over what have been years of financial losses in which my client’s good name has been called into question.”

His claims came just hours after Guerra e Paz, editor of ‘The Truth of the Lie’, announced it would try to rush out new copies of Amaral’s book by next week.

The nightmare scenario for the McCanns paves the way for the book, which Kate McCann has described in court as “devastating and distressing” to go on sale throughout Europe.

The appeal judges said Amaral’s right to express his opinions overruled any duty of confidentiality he had as an ex-police chief heading the Madeleine McCann investigation once the case files, made available on the Internet by Portuguese authorities, were put into the public domain.

The retired detective, who was removed as head of the investigation into Madeleine’s May 3 2007 disappearance after criticising British detectives, had always denied defamation.

The judge concluded he played on his status as a long-serving police officer to present personal opinions and claims about the high-profile case as fact.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte has already said she will fight the libel U-turn by appealing to the country’s Supreme Court.

She has 30 days to submit the appeal.

A friend of the couple said they were “seething” over the appeal ruling.

Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The process is not over yet. It is a matter for Kate and Gerry’s lawyers to deal with.”

Ms Duarte said: “This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.

“We can appeal to the Supreme Court which we will do as we have instructions from our clients.”

Amaral is understood to have earned 400,000 euros (£316,000) from his book before it was banned and a subsequent TV documentary.

He claimed in the book Madeleine, who was three when she disappeared from the McCanns’ Algarve holiday apartment, had died in the flat and they had faked her abduction to cover up the tragedy.

The book was released just three days after Gerry and Kate were told their status as arguidos or formal suspects had been lifted on July 21 2008.

The McCanns told the Lisbon court staging the Amaral libel trial in the summer of 2014 they were left “devastated and crushed” by his allegations.

Kate, 48, from Rothley, Leics, said Madeleine’s twin siblings Sean and Amelie, now 11, knew about Amaral’s allegations.

She told the court in July 2014 after applying to make a statement: “I believe that’s what's in Mr Amaral’s book and the documentary is very distressing to adults. To a child it could be very damaging.”

Asked by the judge how she felt after reading the book, she said: “I was devastated. It made me feel quite desperate because of the injustice I felt towards my daughter and our family as a whole.

“It was very painful to read and I felt sad for Madeleine. I also felt anxious and fearful because of the damage I felt it was doing in Portugal.”

She went on to accuse Amaral of “consistently smearing” her and Gerry and claimed they feared the book may have stopped people coming forward with information about their daughter’s whereabouts.

The ex-police chief always denied defamation, insisting what he wrote was based on case files which had already been made public.

Amaral’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues claimed in court the McCanns had taken legal action against his client “to rid themselves of guilt for their negligent conduct” in leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone while they ate tapas with friends nearby.

He also claimed their lack of cooperation with the Portuguese police authorities had led to the archiving of the investigation in 2008.

Portuguese prosecutors reopened their probe into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in May 2014.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7090166/Ex-police-chief-who-claimed-McCanns-covered-up-Maddies-death-by-faking-disappearance-to-sue-couple.html
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:04:05 AM
Why do you hold a man you don't know in such high esteem after he was deemed by his superiors to be a liability to the investigation of a missing child?

He was case coordinator for 3 months.

He was removed after complaining about interference in the case.

Try to be accurate.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 11:04:28 AM
Fancy and expensive tap-dancing?

Let's see.

Amaral has a right to say anything that's in the files (true or not).

A complication is that stuff in the files is contradicted by other stuff, also, in the files.

So it's in the files (Almeida's interim report) that Eddie 'scented death' all over the place.

And it's in the files (Grime and Harrison) that no evidential reliability can be placed on the reactions of the dogs.

Does that entitle Amaral to say Eddie 'scented death' all over the place?

Or doesn't it?

It shouldn't, because there ought to be a general acceptance that Grime and Harrison have a clearer view (and more complete understanding) of what they are talking about than Almeida.

Amaral lied (about contradicting and correcting Prior on interpretation of the forensic results).

Amaral lied (about the role and pronouncements of Mark Harrison).

Amaral says Madeleine is dead when the present enquiry says she may be alive.

Amaral thinks calpol is a 'sleeping solution' (sedative).  It is not.

Amaral's final chapter directly contradicts the conclusions of the Portuguese prosecutors (from the shelved enquiry).

The lower court was NOT INTERESTED in arguments about the dogs when Gerry McCann tried to talk about them. I don't think it was interested in any of the other stuff you are going on about either. They belong on a thread about the contents of the book, not one about the appeal going Amaral's way.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:04:38 AM
PRECISELY.

A judgement has been made.

The supporters were happy and gloating last time.

They need to get over it.

they shouldnt  get excited  about a supreme  court either  after  all they owe   GA and   the courts  all the cort  fees  and  the jury  panel all agreed with each  other
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:04:51 AM
Similar to the ones who perpetually spout Portugal is a fascist state, Grime is a charlatan and Amaral is ......well choose your expression, I expect don't you?

Strawman.

I said that this judgement has all the hallmarks of fascism.

I said that because it does.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:05:15 AM
Ex-police chief who claimed McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance 'to sue' couple

Goncalo Amaral announces legal action, with the McCanns already reeling from losing £430k in libel fees

THE EX-police chief who claimed "the McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" has announced he is planning to sue the couple for compensation in a new blow for the couple.

Goncalo Amaral yesterday won an appeal against paying the Brit parents 500,000 euros (£430,000), after a year-long battle against their libel win over his explosive book 'Maddy,The Truth of the Lie'.

The former detective, who worked on the four-year-old's disappearance case in the opening days, claimed the McCanns "covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" in the hurtful book.

Gerry and Kate previously won a libel case against the damning claims, but were heartbroken last night after this was overturned by three judges in an appeal.

The parents had planned to put the £430,000 into their Find Maddie fund.

Amaral's lawyer yesterday announced after the libel U-turn he would sue the McCanns for damages, claiming the couple’s long-running court fight had cost his client money and harmed his reputation.

Miguel Cruz Rodrigues told respected Portuguese daily Expresso: “We are going to advance with a compensation claim against the McCanns.

“My client has suffered years of prejudice and losses.”

He added today: “The Lisbon appeal court decision reinforces our aim to go for a claim against the McCanns for damages over what have been years of financial losses in which my client’s good name has been called into question.”

His claims came just hours after Guerra e Paz, editor of ‘The Truth of the Lie’, announced it would try to rush out new copies of Amaral’s book by next week.

The nightmare scenario for the McCanns paves the way for the book, which Kate McCann has described in court as “devastating and distressing” to go on sale throughout Europe.

The appeal judges said Amaral’s right to express his opinions overruled any duty of confidentiality he had as an ex-police chief heading the Madeleine McCann investigation once the case files, made available on the Internet by Portuguese authorities, were put into the public domain.

The retired detective, who was removed as head of the investigation into Madeleine’s May 3 2007 disappearance after criticising British detectives, had always denied defamation.

The judge concluded he played on his status as a long-serving police officer to present personal opinions and claims about the high-profile case as fact.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte has already said she will fight the libel U-turn by appealing to the country’s Supreme Court.

She has 30 days to submit the appeal.

A friend of the couple said they were “seething” over the appeal ruling.

Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The process is not over yet. It is a matter for Kate and Gerry’s lawyers to deal with.”

Ms Duarte said: “This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.

“We can appeal to the Supreme Court which we will do as we have instructions from our clients.”

Amaral is understood to have earned 400,000 euros (£316,000) from his book before it was banned and a subsequent TV documentary.

He claimed in the book Madeleine, who was three when she disappeared from the McCanns’ Algarve holiday apartment, had died in the flat and they had faked her abduction to cover up the tragedy.

The book was released just three days after Gerry and Kate were told their status as arguidos or formal suspects had been lifted on July 21 2008.

The McCanns told the Lisbon court staging the Amaral libel trial in the summer of 2014 they were left “devastated and crushed” by his allegations.

Kate, 48, from Rothley, Leics, said Madeleine’s twin siblings Sean and Amelie, now 11, knew about Amaral’s allegations.

She told the court in July 2014 after applying to make a statement: “I believe that’s what's in Mr Amaral’s book and the documentary is very distressing to adults. To a child it could be very damaging.”

Asked by the judge how she felt after reading the book, she said: “I was devastated. It made me feel quite desperate because of the injustice I felt towards my daughter and our family as a whole.

“It was very painful to read and I felt sad for Madeleine. I also felt anxious and fearful because of the damage I felt it was doing in Portugal.”

She went on to accuse Amaral of “consistently smearing” her and Gerry and claimed they feared the book may have stopped people coming forward with information about their daughter’s whereabouts.

The ex-police chief always denied defamation, insisting what he wrote was based on case files which had already been made public.

Amaral’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues claimed in court the McCanns had taken legal action against his client “to rid themselves of guilt for their negligent conduct” in leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone while they ate tapas with friends nearby.

He also claimed their lack of cooperation with the Portuguese police authorities had led to the archiving of the investigation in 2008.

Portuguese prosecutors reopened their probe into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in May 2014.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7090166/Ex-police-chief-who-claimed-McCanns-covered-up-Maddies-death-by-faking-disappearance-to-sue-couple.html

wow  awesome news 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:05:25 AM
Ex-police chief who claimed McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance 'to sue' couple

Goncalo Amaral announces legal action, with the McCanns already reeling from losing £430k in libel fees

THE EX-police chief who claimed "the McCanns covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" has announced he is planning to sue the couple for compensation in a new blow for the couple.

Goncalo Amaral yesterday won an appeal against paying the Brit parents 500,000 euros (£430,000), after a year-long battle against their libel win over his explosive book 'Maddy,The Truth of the Lie'.

The former detective, who worked on the four-year-old's disappearance case in the opening days, claimed the McCanns "covered up Maddie's death by faking her disappearance" in the hurtful book.

Gerry and Kate previously won a libel case against the damning claims, but were heartbroken last night after this was overturned by three judges in an appeal.

The parents had planned to put the £430,000 into their Find Maddie fund.

Amaral's lawyer yesterday announced after the libel U-turn he would sue the McCanns for damages, claiming the couple’s long-running court fight had cost his client money and harmed his reputation.

Miguel Cruz Rodrigues told respected Portuguese daily Expresso: “We are going to advance with a compensation claim against the McCanns.

“My client has suffered years of prejudice and losses.”

He added today: “The Lisbon appeal court decision reinforces our aim to go for a claim against the McCanns for damages over what have been years of financial losses in which my client’s good name has been called into question.”

His claims came just hours after Guerra e Paz, editor of ‘The Truth of the Lie’, announced it would try to rush out new copies of Amaral’s book by next week.

The nightmare scenario for the McCanns paves the way for the book, which Kate McCann has described in court as “devastating and distressing” to go on sale throughout Europe.

The appeal judges said Amaral’s right to express his opinions overruled any duty of confidentiality he had as an ex-police chief heading the Madeleine McCann investigation once the case files, made available on the Internet by Portuguese authorities, were put into the public domain.

The retired detective, who was removed as head of the investigation into Madeleine’s May 3 2007 disappearance after criticising British detectives, had always denied defamation.

The judge concluded he played on his status as a long-serving police officer to present personal opinions and claims about the high-profile case as fact.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte has already said she will fight the libel U-turn by appealing to the country’s Supreme Court.

She has 30 days to submit the appeal.

A friend of the couple said they were “seething” over the appeal ruling.

Spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The process is not over yet. It is a matter for Kate and Gerry’s lawyers to deal with.”

Ms Duarte said: “This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.

“We can appeal to the Supreme Court which we will do as we have instructions from our clients.”

Amaral is understood to have earned 400,000 euros (£316,000) from his book before it was banned and a subsequent TV documentary.

He claimed in the book Madeleine, who was three when she disappeared from the McCanns’ Algarve holiday apartment, had died in the flat and they had faked her abduction to cover up the tragedy.

The book was released just three days after Gerry and Kate were told their status as arguidos or formal suspects had been lifted on July 21 2008.

The McCanns told the Lisbon court staging the Amaral libel trial in the summer of 2014 they were left “devastated and crushed” by his allegations.

Kate, 48, from Rothley, Leics, said Madeleine’s twin siblings Sean and Amelie, now 11, knew about Amaral’s allegations.

She told the court in July 2014 after applying to make a statement: “I believe that’s what's in Mr Amaral’s book and the documentary is very distressing to adults. To a child it could be very damaging.”

Asked by the judge how she felt after reading the book, she said: “I was devastated. It made me feel quite desperate because of the injustice I felt towards my daughter and our family as a whole.

“It was very painful to read and I felt sad for Madeleine. I also felt anxious and fearful because of the damage I felt it was doing in Portugal.”

She went on to accuse Amaral of “consistently smearing” her and Gerry and claimed they feared the book may have stopped people coming forward with information about their daughter’s whereabouts.

The ex-police chief always denied defamation, insisting what he wrote was based on case files which had already been made public.

Amaral’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues claimed in court the McCanns had taken legal action against his client “to rid themselves of guilt for their negligent conduct” in leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone while they ate tapas with friends nearby.

He also claimed their lack of cooperation with the Portuguese police authorities had led to the archiving of the investigation in 2008.

Portuguese prosecutors reopened their probe into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance in May 2014.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7090166/Ex-police-chief-who-claimed-McCanns-covered-up-Maddies-death-by-faking-disappearance-to-sue-couple.html

Excellent news.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 11:08:26 AM
I really can't believe the hypocrisy on this forum.

If someone says something about someone else they complain to the mods,  can you imagine if someone wrote a book about them saying they hid their child's body?    To say that anyone on here would just let the book go on sale and say nothing or maybe 'it's just what he thinks,  never mind'   is just rubbish.

That is in the official police files and they were never cleared. You don't get cleared by not cooperating with the police.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 11:08:53 AM
He was case coordinator for 3 months.

He was removed after complaining about interference in the case.

Try to be accurate.

I thought maths was your speciality subject? May to October????
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:09:48 AM
so the mcanns have to  pay for   GA  s  court stuff and now  he is  sueing them   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:10:55 AM
The lower court was NOT INTERESTED in arguments about the dogs when Gerry McCann tried to talk about them. I don't think it was interested in any of the other stuff you are going on about either. They belong on a thread about the contents of the book, not one about the appeal going Amaral's way.

In a libel trial, Amaral's (firmly established) misrepresentations of truth (also lies, if he knew them to be untrue; incompetence, if he didn't) don't matter?

If that's so (and the evidence of this ruling tends to suggest it might be) the next logical step (for Portugal) would be wholesale abolition of its libel laws, together with removal (from its constitution) of that provision that defends the right of citizens to a good name.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:12:02 AM
"My client's good name has been called into question."

So has that of The McCanns.  Stalemate, anyone?  Sauce for the goose and all that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:13:13 AM
so the mcanns have to  pay for   GA  s  court stuff and now  he is  sueing them   @)(++(*


And their own of course. No doubt Isabella will wish her money up front if she is going to represent them further.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 11:14:04 AM
"My client's good name has been called into question."

So has that of The McCanns.  Stalemate, anyone?  Sauce for the goose and all that.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=McCann
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:14:25 AM
That is in the official police files and they were never cleared. You don't get cleared by not cooperating with the police.

Amaral stated it as fact when nothing had been proven and in fact SY are searching for a child they hope will still be alive.

He also said 100% DNA of Madeleine found,  which was a complete lie.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:15:40 AM
so the mcanns have to  pay for   GA  s  court stuff and now  he is  sueing them   @)(++(*

Will they,  or will it have to wait until the appeal in the Supreme court?   don't count his chickens carly.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 11:17:02 AM
Amaral stated it as fact when nothing had been proven and in fact SY are searching for a child they hope will still be alive.

He also said 100% DNA of Madeleine found,  which was a complete lie.
The right to a good name is enshrined in European law and that may be where this case goes...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 11:17:44 AM
My opinion is that portugal is  a fascist country..am I allowed to hold that opinion or do I have to satisfy you that it is valid...who decided you were the judge on this.
Amaral has accused the mccanns of crimes with no evidence to back his claims yet this is allowed..why is that
You are free to publish your opinion on here, subject to the forum rules.

T'would be nice if those claiming Portugal is a fascist country actually backed up that assertion with some evidence.

Or am I permitted to assert that England is a (insert your insult here) country, without supporting such a claim?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:20:44 AM
I thought maths was your speciality subject? May to October????

Would you care to give the precise dates from start to finish ?

I note you don't dispute that he was removed for objecting to interference in the case.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:22:54 AM
The right to a good name is enshrined in European law and that may be where this case goes...

Not if we leave the EU.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:24:35 AM
Will they,  or will it have to wait until the appeal in the Supreme court?   don't count his chickens carly.

I would think the court and the various lawyers would want their money now, with re-embursment later, if appropriate.

Outstanding court fees may impact on the progress of any further appeal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
Amaral stated it as fact when nothing had been proven and in fact SY are searching for a child they hope will still be alive.

He also said 100% DNA of Madeleine found,  which was a complete lie.

PRELIMINARY RESULTS

PREPARATION FOR THE INTERROGATIONS

Analyses of the residues collected following the visit by the dogs is entrusted to the English Forensic Science Service laboratory. To avoid any leaks of information, Stuart Prior, a senior officer with Leicestershire police, is responsible for liaison between the laboratory and José Freitas of Scotland Yard. The latter, who is with us, in Portimão, is passing on any relevant reports.

We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns’ car shows a significant match – 50% – with Gerald’s, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

Read more Chapter 18 TOTL
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:25:37 AM
Not if we leave the EU.

An interesting point.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:25:45 AM
There is a phone in on LBC discussing the case now.


http://www.lbc.co.uk/

I listened in Stephen,  laughed when he said it draws in very strange people,  apparently the person before had accused him of being 'in on it'    see what I mean when I say these people will look and sound very very silly to the general public?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 11:27:51 AM
Not if we leave the EU.

Oh ... is Portugal having a referendum too?

This game is played by local Portuguese rules, not local British ones ... so work it out, please.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
so     let me put this out here now   GA  will be allowed to  sell truth of the lies  from next  week   he  is going to  sue   gerry and  kate  they have to pay his and their own  court fees etc???   also they wont get his   money they  wanted is that  about  right
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:28:09 AM
PRELIMINARY RESULTS

PREPARATION FOR THE INTERROGATIONS

Analyses of the residues collected following the visit by the dogs is entrusted to the English Forensic Science Service laboratory. To avoid any leaks of information, Stuart Prior, a senior officer with Leicestershire police, is responsible for liaison between the laboratory and José Freitas of Scotland Yard. The latter, who is with us, in Portimão, is passing on any relevant reports.

We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns’ car shows a significant match – 50% – with Gerald’s, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children. We telephone the public minister to pass on this initial result and wait for the follow-up to the analyses and definite conclusions But the laboratory takes its time.

Read more Chapter 18 TOTL

That is absolute rubbish!!!!    The only blood found to be Gerry's was on the key fob.

The swab in the boot of the car was a mix of three even five people.

Do you still believe this?   have you read the forensic report?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 11:28:24 AM
Would you care to give the precise dates from start to finish ?

I note you don't dispute that he was removed for objecting to interference in the case.

You know the dates - and even you can't make them total only 3 months.
He objected via the press. Was that not inviting public scrutiny, contrary to Secrecy Laws?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:28:57 AM
I listened in Stephen,  laughed when he said it draws in very strange people,  apparently the person before had accused him of being 'in on it'    see what I mean when I say these people will look and sound very very silly to the general public?

Everything in context Lace.

I recall when Mr. O'Brien said some time ago on  LBC  when he stated people were jealous of kate mccanns beauty.

 8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 11:29:35 AM
You are free to publish your opinion on here, subject to the forum rules.

T'would be nice if those claiming Portugal is a fascist country actually backed up that assertion with some evidence.

Or am I permitted to assert that England is a (insert your insult here) country, without supporting such a claim?
as amaral is allowed to make his claims with no evidence...and he has a lot of support on here...then the bar has been set
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:30:33 AM
Oh ... is Portugal having a referendum too?

This game is played by local Portuguese rules, not local British ones ... so work it out, please.

Are you sure on that.

If we leave the EU, I have heard that wee will withdraw from the European convention of human rights.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:30:50 AM
Everything in context Lace.

I recall when Mr. O'Brien said some time ago on  LBC  when he stated people were jealous of kate mccanns beauty.

 8)--))

Cite

Has this come from the same source that said Gerry wanted Kate in a swim suit for a photo shoot?   which was all BS
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:31:21 AM
as amaral is allowed to make his claims with no evidence...and he has a lot of support on here...then the bar has been set


Is Amaral a member of this forum. Does he post his views here?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:32:14 AM
You know the dates - and even you can't make them total only 3 months.
He objected via the press. Was that not inviting public scrutiny, contrary to Secrecy Laws?

I don't know the exact dates.


Perhaps you can remind me.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:34:08 AM

Is Amaral a member of this forum. Does he post his views here?

even if he did he would be allowed  too
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
That is absolute rubbish!!!!    The only blood found to be Gerry's was on the key fob.

The swab in the boot of the car was a mix of three even five people.

Do you still believe this?   have you read the forensic report?

Read Chapter 18 for more.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/Sb7b3wiPV6I/AAAAAAAAEFU/fA0b1nEyLoY/s400/bodily+fluids.jpg)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 11:38:29 AM
even if he did he would be allowed  too

John would not allow amaral to post his views on here as they would be libellous and therefore against forum rules
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:40:25 AM
Everyone has the right to a good name, according to Portugal.  Even Cops and Robbers.  Everyone except The McCanns it seems.
So what is Amaral going to sue them for?  The same as he did?  That should be interesting.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:41:02 AM
Everyone has the right to a good name, according to Portugal.  Even Cops and Robbers.  Everyone except The McCanns it seems.
So what is Amaral going to sue them for?  The same as he did?  That should be interesting.

Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:41:14 AM
even if he did he would be allowed  too

I don't think so.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 11:41:40 AM
Are you sure on that.

If we leave the EU, I have heard that wee will withdraw from the European convention of human rights.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if the libel trial had been held in England or almost any other country in the civilised world.

The trial was held in Portugal.
The verdict was delivered in Portugal.
The appeal was heard in Portugal.
The appeal against the verdict of the lower court was upheld in Portugal.

The appeal against that will be heard or not as the case may be ... in Portugal.

Absolutely nothing at all to do with whether or not we leave Europe ... Portugal has no plans to leave as far as I know. 
I think the European Court of Human Rights might very well be quite 'right on' as far as section 6 is concerned; certainly more so than the appeal court judges in Portugal seem to be.

The fat lady has not sung yet.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:42:50 AM
Let's see what happens.

Indeed, Stephen.  It's looking very stalemate to me.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:43:41 AM
We wouldn't be having this conversation if the libel trial had been held in England or almost any other country in the civilised world.

The trial was held in Portugal.
The verdict was delivered in Portugal.
The appeal was heard in Portugal.
The appeal against the verdict of the lower court was upheld in Portugal.

The appeal against that will be heard or not as the case may be ... in Portugal.

Absolutely nothing at all to do with whether or not we leave Europe ... Portugal has no plans to leave as far as I know. 
I think the European Court of Human Rights might very well be quite 'right on' as far as section 6 is concerned; certainly more so than the appeal court judges in Portugal seem to be.

The fat lady has not sung yet.

You seem very angry Brietta.

Why is that I wonder ?

Any appeal of course has to be accepted for transfer to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:43:53 AM
Everyone has the right to a good name, according to Portugal.  Even Cops and Robbers.  Everyone except The McCanns it seems.
So what is Amaral going to sue them for?  The same as he did?  That should be interesting.


Loss of earning, perhaps.  Didn't he have all his assets frozen?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 11:44:03 AM
How would you describe a state in which there has apparently never been a single case of a 'miscarriage of justice' - or where a court finds that a defenceless woman has been tortured whilst in police custody, but who remains in prison without even a hint of a re-trial  - (in fact actually has her sentence extended!)  - while the perpetrators go unpunished?    Does anyone actually believe that the PT police have never made mistake?  Surely not.

IMO in the scheme of things Portugal is still a very young democracy - and still has some way to go before it shakes off all its old habits.    It could start with reviewing the Secrecy Laws which imo have been regularly used and abused by elements of the PJ to influence public opinion  - but who then simultaneously use that same law to suppress any attempt by anyone to 'voice opposition' to that abuse by threatening them with imprisonment if they do so.
There are flaws, left right and centre, in how Portugal works.

There are flaws, left right and centre, in how England works.  Which does not make England a fascist state.

I have no issue in saying what is wrong with Portugal.  I have no issue in saying what is wrong with Luz.  I'd just like it to be accurate.

For those interested, the 3rd Luz triathlon is up on Saturday.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 11:44:14 AM
I don't know the exact dates.


Perhaps you can remind me.

May 4th to October 2nd.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 11:45:27 AM
so     let me put this out here now   GA  will be allowed to  sell truth of the lies  from next  week   he  is going to  sue   gerry and  kate  they have to pay his and their own  court fees etc???   also they wont get his   money they  wanted is that  about  right

Pretty much!  But you will note how the supporters are now delighting in talking about irrelevancies to avoid the main issue.
The original judgement against Sr Amaral has been turned over by three appeal court judges and Dra Duarte is yet to work out whether she has adequate grounds of appeal.
The defence by the supporters is the implication that Portugal is a banana republic without a real judicial system so somehow it does not really count.
But remind me where the case was being tried and whose judicial system has primacy...............?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:47:29 AM
May 4th to October 2nd.

Thank you.

and he was removed for objecting to foreign interference in this case.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:47:47 AM

Loss of earning, perhaps.  Didn't he have all his assets frozen?

Not lost then.  Yet.  What happened to his other books, by the way?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:50:15 AM
Not lost then. Yet.  What happened to his other books, by the way?

No, though I think it left him with v. little income.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:51:59 AM
Pretty much!  But you will note how the supporters are now delighting in talking about irrelevancies to avoid the main issue.
The original judgement against Sr Amaral has been turned over by three appeal court judges and Dra Duarte is yet to work out whether she has adequate grounds of appeal.
The defence by the supporters is the implication that Portugal is a banana republic without a real judicial system so somehow it does not really count.
But remind me where the case was being tried and whose judicial system has primacy...............?

i just  find it  really ironic  they started this     what  6 years ago and now  are the losers in everything  @)(++(* karmas a  you know  what  8)-)))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 11:52:59 AM
You seem very angry Brietta.

Why is that I wonder ?

Any appeal of course has to be accepted for transfer to the Supreme Court.

I have stated the facts ... if you can refute them, fine ... it seems you cannot.

I have said in my post that the appeal is not a done deal yet.

Once I would have rejected out of hand your suggestion that the appeal would not have been accepted by the Supreme Court as I had certain expectations of the Portuguese legal system working within a modern democracy.

I really don't think that anymore and I am probably not the only observer taking note of the implication here.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:53:19 AM
No, though I think it left him with v. little income.

He's got a much better pension than mine, and I manage.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:55:47 AM
I have stated the facts ... if you can refute them, fine ... it seems you cannot.

I have said in my post that the appeal is not a done deal yet.

Once I would have rejected out of hand your suggestion that the appeal would not have been accepted by the Supreme Court as I had certain expectations of the Portuguese legal system working within a modern democracy.

I really don't think that anymore and I am probably not the only observer taking note of the implication here.

We shall see what happens.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
Is it known how long the McCanns have to submit their case to the Supreme Court?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:57:42 AM
Is it known how long the McCanns have to submit their case to the Supreme Court?

By the precedent of Amaral, about the next 5 years?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 11:57:46 AM
i just  find it  really ironic  they started this     what  6 years ago and now  are the losers in everything  @)(++(* karmas a  you know  what  8)-)))

Goading again are we carly?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 11:59:30 AM
Was there ever a version of TTOTL published in English for worldwide sale?
Certainly other versions were banned, but only for short periods of time & in certain countries.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 11:59:45 AM
Goading again are we carly?

What did you say last year Lace about the result of the previous judgement ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:00:06 PM
By the precedent of Amaral, about the next 5 years?


I was meaning the time window of opportunity to apply, not how long it might drag on  8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 12:00:21 PM
All who are glad Amaral has won must all agree with his book,    and therefore believe Madeleine to be dead,  a child who could be out there waiting to be found.   Thank god SY are searching for her.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 12:00:58 PM
What did you say last year Lace about the result of the previous judgement ?

Don't remember,  don't think I posted on here much.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 12:03:09 PM
i just  find it  really ironic  they started this     what  6 years ago and now  are the losers in everything  @)(++(* karmas a  you know  what  8)-)))

Karma for the parents of a missing child,  who wanted the book banned because it stated Madeleine was dead and so no one would be looking out for her.    Don't think you care about that child carly.  SY do and hope to find her alive.

Karma?  don't think so.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 12:04:21 PM

Loss of earning, perhaps.  Didn't he have all his assets frozen?

If his book is republished and sells lots of copies he will be able to take those sales as a baseline to estimate how much he lost during the period of the ban, I would imagine. Then we have such things as stress caused to himself and his family. He, unlike the McCanns may even have medical evidence of the effects of the case on his health. Kate's 'depression' was never medically diagnosed.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 12:08:08 PM
All who are glad Amaral has won must all agree with his book,    and therefore believe Madeleine to be dead,  a child who could be out there waiting to be found.   Thank god SY are searching for her.

Where are they searching Lace ?

You of course realize they don't know what happened to her and you are merely typing cliches.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 12:08:43 PM
Is it known how long the McCanns have to submit their case to the Supreme Court?

30 days.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 12:12:56 PM
Where are they searching Lace ?

You of course realize they don't know what happened to her and you are merely typing cliches.

emotional blackmail doesnt work on  me 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 12:14:02 PM
Pretty much!  But you will note how the supporters are now delighting in talking about irrelevancies to avoid the main issue.
The original judgement against Sr Amaral has been turned over by three appeal court judges and Dra Duarte is yet to work out whether she has adequate grounds of appeal.
The defence by the supporters is the implication that Portugal is a banana republic without a real judicial system so somehow it does not really count.
But remind me where the case was being tried and whose judicial system has primacy...............?

The judgment of the appeal-court judges is badly flawed, not least because the innocence of the McCanns (of any criminally culpable act) is not in question, and Amaral's book accuses them of some very serious crimes.

This judgement is a licence for anyone to write anything, call it their 'opinion' and be exempt from consequence.  That is manifestly and flagrantly unjust.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 12:15:52 PM
All who are glad Amaral has won must all agree with his book,    and therefore believe Madeleine to be dead,  a child who could be out there waiting to be found.   Thank god SY are searching for her.

As one of those who are allegedly the better informed and more intelligent group that is rather a simplistic view. Amaral expressed his opinion of what happened in his book, as did Kate McCann in her book. Both had the right to express their opinions in print as far as I'm concerned. That opinion has absolutely no connection with my opinion on the contents of either book.

Madeleine McCann's fate is unknown. Scotland Yard are trying to find out what happened. I see no signs of them 'searching' either for remains or for a living girl. It seems to be a desk exercise now by four people. They may get lucky and have a breakthrough and if they do and the trail leads to Portugal they will present their findings to the Portuguese who will decide what to do about it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 12:16:23 PM
The attitude of the press seems to be changing.
McCann still sells copy if dressed up right; smelly bin men are so yesterdays news.
One fears the Portuguese judgement will breathe life back into it.

"Cop wins right to print claims against parents"

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/509325/Maddie-McCann-shock-Cop-wins-right-print-claims-against-parents-Goncalo-Amaral
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 12:17:09 PM
The judgment of the appeal-court judges is badly flawed, not least because the innocence of the McCanns (of any criminally culpable act) is not in question, and Amaral's book accuses them of some very serious crimes.

This judgement is a licence for anyone to write anything, call it their 'opinion' and be exempt from consequence.  That is manifestly and flagrantly unjust.

I suspect that Portugal might live to regret this decision.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:17:14 PM
There is talk in the papers of Amaral suing the McCanns on various grounds. Would this be in a British or Portuguese court?
If he won in the latter and they refused to pay up, this would be a huge PR coup for Amaral and reflect very negatively on the McCanns.

Would he be likely to have any success in a UK court?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 12:20:13 PM
As one of those who are allegedly the better informed and more intelligent group that is rather a simplistic view. Amaral expressed his opinion of what happened in his book, as did Kate McCann in her book. Both had the right to express their opinions in print as far as I'm concerned. That opinion has absolutely no connection with my opinion on the contents of either book.

Madeleine McCann's fate is unknown. Scotland Yard are trying to find out what happened. I see no signs of them 'searching' either for remains or for a living girl. It seems to be a desk exercise now by four people. They may get lucky and have a breakthrough and if they do and the trail leads to Portugal they will present their findings to the Portuguese who will decide what to do about it.

Amaral lied in his book,  there was no 100% DNA found of Madeleine's.

Can't you see why they sued him though?   Would you let someone let alone the co-ordinator of the case write a book which was damning you,  drugging your children hiding her body,   of course you wouldn't.   I would have done exactly the same as the McCann's especially as it would be protecting my daughter from someone saying she was dead and therefore no one should search for her.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 12:22:43 PM
Where are they searching Lace ?

You of course realize they don't know what happened to her and you are merely typing cliches.

Ask SY.   You are forgetting that when Amaral's book came out it was only a year or so after Madeleine went missing and people were still phoning in with sightings,  a very important time in the search,  to be told Madeleine is dead.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 12:22:59 PM
I suspect that Portugal might live to regret this decision.

I can't imagine why.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:23:10 PM
As one of those who are allegedly the better informed and more intelligent group that is rather a simplistic view. Amaral expressed his opinion of what happened in his book, as did Kate McCann in her book. Both had the right to express their opinions in print as far as I'm concerned. That opinion has absolutely no connection with my opinion on the contents of either book.

Madeleine McCann's fate is unknown. Scotland Yard are trying to find out what happened. I see no signs of them 'searching' either for remains or for a living girl. It seems to be a desk exercise now by four people. They may get lucky and have a breakthrough and if they do and the trail leads to Portugal they will present their findings to the Portuguese who will decide what to do about it.


Quite. There would appear to be little urgency in their approach - " we will go back to the HO in 6 months for more funding,  etc", which would suggest that they have little expectation of finding a live Madeleine.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
I don't see how amaral can sue the mccanns for the fact that his book was banned...it was the court who banned the book...not the mccanns
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 12:24:51 PM
There is talk in the papers of Amaral suing the McCanns on various grounds. Would this be in a British or Portuguese court?
If he won in the latter and they refused to pay up, this would be a huge PR coup for Amaral and reflect very negatively on the McCanns.

Would he be likely to have any success in a UK court?

How can he sue in a UK court regarding an injunction issued by a Portuguese court?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:28:37 PM
He might not be suing over the injunction, he may have other grounds, though as I'm not a lawyer, I wouldn't want to suggest what they might be.

Like most things, it may become more clear in the fullness of time
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 12:32:01 PM
I can't imagine why.

If Amaral can do it then so can anyone else.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 12:34:07 PM
There is talk ...

All over the world, about all sorts of things ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:34:39 PM
If Amaral can do it then so can anyone else.


Why should that be a problem?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 12:37:01 PM
Amaral lied in his book,  there was no 100% DNA found of Madeleine's.

Can't you see why they sued him though?   Would you let someone let alone the co-ordinator of the case write a book which was damning you,  drugging your children hiding her body,   of course you wouldn't.   I would have done exactly the same as the McCann's especially as it would be protecting my daughter from someone saying she was dead and therefore no one should search for her.

Have you read his book? Read Chapter 18 first - it doesn't say 100% match.

"During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.

If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. Our English colleagues then realise a hard reality: the strong possibility that they would have a crime to investigate in their own country, with the McCann couple as the main suspects: a prospect that does not seem to appeal to them. I notice a sudden pallor in the faces of those British people present." (Chapter 18 TOTL)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 12:39:30 PM
He might not be suing over the injunction, he may have other grounds, though as I'm not a lawyer, I would want to suggest what they might be.

Like most things, it may become more clear in the fullness of time

In a UK libel trial, there is a facility which permits the defendant to apply for the right to damages, should any injunctions imposed subsequently be proven to have been incorrect. I do not know if this is the case in Pt. law.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
If his book is republished and sells lots of copies he will be able to take those sales as a baseline to estimate how much he lost during the period of the ban, I would imagine. Then we have such things as stress caused to himself and his family. He, unlike the McCanns may even have medical evidence of the effects of the case on his health. Kate's 'depression' was never medically diagnosed.

That is one way to look at it.

I am sure there may be those who will queue to buy another copy but it was a best seller in Portugal suggesting sales would have tailed off, so what potential was there for profit to be made from further sales?

If it is weighed against actual earnings from later titles authored by him that might reduce it even further.  There is also perhaps a more discerning readership who prefer to read the facts rather than a threadbare thesis unable to suggest how the prime suggestion in it was accomplished.
(coffin invasions and subsequent cremation ... probably won't cut the mustard ... then again it takes all sorts)

Should he decide to counter sue the McCanns his allegation of penury at their hands will require substantiation.  (I would imagine this to be a requirement even of a Portuguese court). Many issues will almost certainly be raised in court and the gloves will be entirely off ;  I think that might be a conversation with himself worth having, once the McCanns have their bite at the cherry by appealing the court decision ... should such a thing be allowed.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 12:40:38 PM

Why should that be a problem?

It might be if nasty, true things are being said about Amaral.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:42:55 PM
It might be if nasty, true things are being said about Amaral.


So, I say again, why should that be a problem?  Who would want to do such a petty thing and for what reason?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 12:43:14 PM
If Amaral can do it then so can anyone else.

A sues B and the judgement is in A's favour.
B has grounds for appeal and the right of appeal to a higher court which B exercises and B's appeal is upheld.
Should A have grounds and the right of appeal to the highest court then A may exercise that right.

So far so good. What is wrong with that? The practice works in most countries and is accepted as the norm.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
Amaral lied in his book,  there was no 100% DNA found of Madeleine's.

Can't you see why they sued him though?   Would you let someone let alone the co-ordinator of the case write a book which was damning you,  drugging your children hiding her body,   of course you wouldn't.   I would have done exactly the same as the McCann's especially as it would be protecting my daughter from someone saying she was dead and therefore no one should search for her.

All your arguments rest on your opinion that the McCanns are totally innocent. That's your non-negotiable starting point. If you come at it from a different starting point your arguments don't hold water. Someone who doesn't know if the McCanns are innocent or not can accept the possibility that their motives were not what they said they were. Lest we forget, the subject of 'drugging' was first raised by the parents to explain their comatose twins, not by the PJ.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 12:51:10 PM
Ask SY.   You are forgetting that when Amaral's book came out it was only a year or so after Madeleine went missing and people were still phoning in with sightings,  a very important time in the search,  to be told Madeleine is dead.

Why do you continue to omit that other people had already concluded, independent of Amaral, that in all likelihood she was already dead.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 12:54:56 PM
Why do you continue to omit that other people had already concluded, independent of Amaral, that in all likelihood she was already dead.

Which other people independent of Amaral?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 12:56:37 PM

So, I say again, why should that be a problem?  Who would want to do such a petty thing and for what reason?

I thought we were talking about the right to freedom of speech.  What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  That is what Portugal is saying.  Reasons are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:57:52 PM
There is no other sane starting point (in a non-fascist state).

That demonstrates a very narrow minded outlook.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 12:58:29 PM
I thought we were talking about the right to freedom of speech.  What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.  That is what Portugal is saying.  Reasons are irrelevant.


Yes, so why is it a problem?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 01:00:45 PM

Yes, so why is it a problem?

It isn't a problem for me, but it could well be for Portugal and Amaral.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 01:04:55 PM
It isn't a problem for me, but it could well be for Portugal and Amaral.

So why bother even bringing it up?  Why anticipate something that might never happen?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 01:07:15 PM
That demonstrates a very narrow minded outlook.

You challenge the right to the assumption of innocence?

Why is that?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 01:07:24 PM
So why bother even bringing it up?  Why anticipate something that might never happen?

Isn't this what everyone is doing?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 01:18:39 PM
You challenge the right to the assumption of innocence?

Why is that?


Not at all - it was your dogmatic statement about insanity that I was commenting on.

Presumption of innocence applies only to a court of law. Individuals can think what they like.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: lordpookles on April 20, 2016, 01:40:47 PM
What I'm not clear on is what would happen here in the UK? For example, if a private individual not necessarily a detective published a book speculating and provided a thesis that for instance Michael Barrymore did commit a murder during that infamous pool party. Could said individual be prosecuted for libel or prosecuted for anything at all? Is it OK for one to give their opinion whilst admitting they may be wrong - ie something is stated as opinion, which is not the same as stating something as fact?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 01:54:23 PM
What I'm not clear on is what would happen here in the UK? For example, if a private individual not necessarily a detective published a book speculating and provided a thesis that for instance Michael Barrymore did commit a murder during that infamous pool party. Could said individual be prosecuted for libel or prosecuted for anything at all? Is it OK for one to give their opinion whilst admitting they may be wrong - ie something is stated as opinion, which is not the same as stating something as fact?

Hi LP ... If you wish to test it, try posting such an opinion on the forum ...

(a)    see if it is allowed to stand
(b)   or countdown how long it takes for it to be whooshed

I think (b) would be the order of the day.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 02:17:24 PM
30 days.

So we ought to know by about the middle of May if we have reached the end, or if there is another thrilling installment .
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 02:40:43 PM
you sceptics have some strange ideas...I doubt if anyone on this forum is seething...lashing out...or best of all...madly in love with Kate

I see it as a disappointing backward step into a bygone time.

The cast had a couple of changes since the last time round when Mr Amaral won his appeal ... the McCanns ~ Amaral ~ judge Catarina Arelo Manso ... but otherwise 'business as usual'.

Obviously it must be considered appropriate for the same judge to rule on the same case on two separate occasions in the matter of two different judgements ... however had she ruled in the McCann favour first time around, one can only imagine the scratching of heads at her appearance second time around.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 02:41:55 PM

Not at all - it was your dogmatic statement about insanity that I was commenting on.

Presumption of innocence applies only to a court of law. Individuals can think what they like.

Especially in Portugal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 02:43:09 PM
I see it as a disappointing backward step into a bygone time.

The cast had a couple of changes since the last time round when Mr Amaral won his appeal ... the McCanns ~ Amaral ~ judge Catarina Arelo Manso ... but otherwise 'business as usual'.

Obviously it must be considered appropriate for the same judge to rule on the same case on two separate occasions in the matter of two different judgements ... however had she ruled in the McCann favour first time around, one can only imagine the scratching of heads at her appearance second time around.

Backward step ?

Why, as your views are clearly biased in this case, as are those on both sides of the fence.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 20, 2016, 02:58:42 PM
Have you read his book? Read Chapter 18 first - it doesn't say 100% match.

"During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.

If such a crime exists, Portugal would not have jurisdiction to investigate and try it. The fund being legally registered in England, it would be our English colleagues who would deal with the case. Our English colleagues then realise a hard reality: the strong possibility that they would have a crime to investigate in their own country, with the McCann couple as the main suspects: a prospect that does not seem to appeal to them. I notice a sudden pallor in the faces of those British people present." (Chapter 18 TOTL)


He says 4 short of 100% in his book,  but this is what hit the headlines - 


DNA samples that are a "100 per cent match" to Madeleine McCann have been found in her parents' hire car and holiday apartment, it has been claimed.

That came from Portugal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 02:59:56 PM
I see it as a disappointing backward step into a bygone time.

The cast had a couple of changes since the last time round when Mr Amaral won his appeal ... the McCanns ~ Amaral ~ judge Catarina Arelo Manso ... but otherwise 'business as usual'.

Obviously it must be considered appropriate for the same judge to rule on the same case on two separate occasions in the matter of two different judgements ... however had she ruled in the McCann favour first time around, one can only imagine the scratching of heads at her appearance second time around.

Are you suggesting bias or what?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 03:01:05 PM
I see Amaral has given thanks to those who donated to the legal fund including police officers in the UK.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 03:01:12 PM

Not at all - it was your dogmatic statement about insanity that I was commenting on.

Presumption of innocence applies only to a court of law. Individuals can think what they like.

Agreed, with emphasis on the word I underline.

Think!

They should be much more careful about what they say or commit to permanent form, such as a messageboard.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 03:16:50 PM
It's understandable that supporters are disappointed by the verdict. I don't see how it justifies vilifying a whole country, that's all. Just as I see no justification for suggesting those who don't support the McCanns are insane. That's where the desperation is evident; in ridiculous assertions.

No one is vilifying the whole country.  But there is something seriously wrong with the Judiciary.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
No one is vilifying the whole country.  But there is something seriously wrong with the Judiciary.


Perhaps it is your perception of their law which is wrong.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 03:21:23 PM
It's understandable that supporters are disappointed by the verdict. I don't see how it justifies vilifying a whole country, that's all. Just as I see no justification for suggesting those who don't support the McCanns are insane. That's where the desperation is evident; in ridiculous assertions.

Unfortunately, some of the supporters have regularly used that ploy of questioning the sanity of others.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 03:22:17 PM
No one is vilifying the whole country.  But there is something seriously wrong with the Judiciary.

That is a matter of opinion.

Clearly you would not say that if the decision had gone in favour of the mccanns.

Perhaps that old adage of that you win some and you lose some, would be appropriate.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 03:37:16 PM
Quote
After a week of intense work, Harrison presents the results of his study to my coordinating group. Even if we were expecting it, his conclusions confirm our worst fears. The most plausible scenario is the following: there is no doubt that Madeleine is dead, and her body is hidden somewhere in the area around Praia da Luz. He praises the quality of the work carried out by the Portuguese authorities in trying to find the little girl alive. According to him, the time has come to redirect the searches in order to find, this time, a body hidden in the surrounding area.

Goncalo Amaral (Truth of the Lie)

Quote
I am currently of the opinion on the available information and statistical datasets that if death has occurred, that it is possible that Madeleine McCann’s body has been disposed into the sea at Praia da Luz. (See my second report entitled “NPIA OP TASK Search Doc Beach and Marine”).

(Penultimate sentence and paragraph of Harrison's third and final report)

Isabel Duarte ought to have to do literally no more than cite the above two paragraphs, one from Amaral's book, the other from the conclusion of Harrison's third and final report, to be sure that her clients ultimately prevail in their action against Amaral.

Oh, and this paragraph from Amaral's book:

Quote
The figures quoted in the report he hands over give us the shivers. The crimes, including those of a sexual nature, are committed by the parents in 84% of cases; 96% are perpetrated by friends and relatives. In only 4% of them is the murderer or abductor a total stranger to the victim. In this roundabout way, Mark Harrison points out that the guilty party may be a person close to Madeleine, and even her own parents. From now on, we have to explore this track, especially as the others have proved fruitless.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 03:38:14 PM
What on earth has come over the UK press? Amaral has gone from being described as 'disgraced' or 'sacked'  to a simple 'former detective' in most reports. Surely they don't forsee another massive libel payout? Or are they bidding to serialise his book when it's published in the UK?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 03:41:01 PM
No one is vilifying the whole country.  But there is something seriously wrong with the Judiciary.

Oh, sorry. When you referred to Portugal I thought you meant Portugal. Someone was when they linked it to Fascism, I believe.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 03:42:36 PM
You mean like accusing people of being insane or a country of being Fascist? I totally agree, inexcusable!

I think the accusations against the mccanns are inexcusable
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:46:31 PM
What on earth has come over the UK press? Amaral has gone from being described as 'disgraced' or 'sacked'  to a simple 'former detective' in most reports. Surely they don't forsee another massive libel payout? Or are they bidding to serialise his book when it's published in the UK?


One of them, perhaps the Mirror used the word 'blundering'   8(0(*

Serialisation would be entertaining on several fronts
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 03:47:38 PM
That is a matter of opinion.

Clearly you would not say that if the decision had gone in favour of the mccanns.

Perhaps that old adage of that you win some and you lose some, would be appropriate.

I have a different attitude to The Law than most, Stephen.  To me it should be logical.  This decision was not.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 03:48:55 PM
That demonstrates a very narrow minded outlook.

It's like Sesame Street; today's new word is "fascist".
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:50:21 PM
Total rollucks


Let him stamp his tiny foot of defiance. No one is paying any real attention.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
What on earth has come over the UK press? Amaral has gone from being described as 'disgraced' or 'sacked'  to a simple 'former detective' in most reports. Surely they don't forsee another massive libel payout? Or are they bidding to serialise his book when it's published in the UK?

DO you seriously believe the book could be published in the UK.....you show a complete ignorance of the libel laws here
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 03:51:17 PM
Are you suggesting bias or what?

I am suggesting nothing.  I have made a statement of fact ... you may address that if you wish.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:53:59 PM
DO you seriously believe the book could be published in the UK.....you show a complete ignorance of the libel laws here

I suppose it could be published on line in a foreign edition. That would probably get around any libel law.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 03:54:21 PM
Anyone who stands in anything short of outright condemnation of this latest decision of the Portuguese courts has fascist tendencies.

You do realise you're not making sense? Who has been trying to stamp out disagreement with their story? Who wants to restrict the freedom of the press? Who has tried to stop people expressing their opinions on the internet? Not the Portuguese Courts. They support freedom of speech and expression which is not a fascist tendency, quite the opposite.

Fascism;
 a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 03:54:40 PM
This latest decision (of the Portuguese courts) upholds the 'right' of any old Joe-Soap to spout anything they like that traduces maligns and denigrates without let, hindrance or fear of sanction, and without heed to the wider damage done, either to reputations or to the prospects of finding someone missing and sought.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 03:55:18 PM

Let him stamp his tiny foot of defiance. No one is paying any real attention.

Really?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 03:57:31 PM
What on earth has come over the UK press? Amaral has gone from being described as 'disgraced' or 'sacked'  to a simple 'former detective' in most reports. Surely they don't forsee another massive libel payout? Or are they bidding to serialise his book when it's published in the UK?

He was not disgraced when given a suspended prison sentence and a conviction for covering up a serious crime?

He was not removed or 'sacked' from Madeleine's case?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:57:47 PM
Really?

Well you, obviously   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 03:58:10 PM
This latest decision (of the Portuguese courts) upholds the 'right' of any old Joe-Soap to spout anything they like that traduces maligns and denigrates without let, hindrance or fear of sanction, and without heed to the wider damage done, either to reputations or to the prospects of finding someone missing and sought.

The mccanns messed up any reputation they had on the  night of the 3 rd May 2007

I noted the mirror was still calling kate mccann a GP yesterday.

A complete lie.

She has no license to practice.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 03:59:02 PM
He was not disgraced when given a suspended prison sentence and a conviction for covering up a serious crime?

He was not removed or 'sacked' from Madeleine's case?


All water under the bridge. The British press can be so forgiving when they want to be 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 03:59:31 PM
...

perhaps if posters such as you didn't act in such a way I wouldn't say it. First...the mccanns have not been turned over...an appeal is to be made. One of the judges who made the present judgement also overturned the banning of the book...which was overturned...the judgement could go all the way to the ECHR...

second...my intelligence is just a super today as it was last week

third...the book would be considered libellous in the UK
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:06:51 PM
if it not here already:
http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:10:12 PM
if it not here already:
http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99

Now I suppose they could serialise the book  for their English-speaking readers .
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:11:17 PM
Well you, obviously   @)(++(*

Now, even I think that is funny.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:12:13 PM
The mccanns messed up any reputation they had on the  night of the 3 rd May 2007

I noted the mirror was still calling kate mccann a GP yesterday.

A complete lie.

She has no license to practice.

Amaral messed up any reputation he had back in 2002.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 04:14:00 PM
DO you seriously believe the book could be published in the UK.....you show a complete ignorance of the libel laws here

Sorry, I couldn't resist that little joke. I knew what the reaction would be.  @)(++(*

Still, who knows what may happen? The impossible (according to some) has happened in Portugal. The guy who didn't have a hope of being allowed to appeal was allowed to appeal. Then he won; another impossibility according to some. As few understand Portuguese law and legal processes their surprise is...........surprising. It seems the original judge didn't correctly interpret the matter of judicial secrecy, for example, so what hope UK people had of deciding if she was correct I don't know. Of course some didn't even understand what she based her judgement on.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 04:14:47 PM

Let him stamp his tiny foot of defiance. No one is paying any real attention.

When Amaral attributed to Harrison the assertion that Harrison had said Madeleine is definitely dead, was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

When Amaral suggested Harrison hinted Madeleine's own parents (Kate and Gerry) might even be responsible (for Madeleine's death), was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

All ways up, Amaral made assertions (purporting to be 'truth') that were actually untrue, and that traduced the reputations of Kate and Gerry:

                     
PROVED!
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:16:12 PM
perhaps if posters such as you didn't act in such a way I wouldn't say it. First...the mccanns have not been turned over...an appeal is to be made. One of the judges who made the present judgement also overturned the banning of the book...which was overturned...the judgement could go all the way to the ECHR...

second...my intelligence is just a super today as it was last week

third...the book would be considered libellous in the UK

I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that Portugal would rather have ECHR rule on this than have to do it themselves?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 04:17:48 PM
When Amaral attributed to Harrison the assertion that Harrison had said Madeleine is definitely dead, was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

When Amaral suggested Harrison hinted Madeleine's own parents (Kate and Gerry) might even be responsible (for Madeleine's death), was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

All ways up, Amaral made assertions (purporting to be 'truth') that were actually untrue, and that traduced the reputations of Kate and Gerry:

                     
PROVED!

The nature of crime is undetermined.

Don't forget that when you type your mantra.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 04:19:15 PM
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that Portugal would rather have ECHR rule on this than have to do it themselves?

I think many haven't realised that's where it may well end up
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:19:47 PM
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that Portugal would rather have ECHR rule on this than have to do it themselves?

That might prove to be rather difficult.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:19:52 PM
Could we have a care about accusing people of lying, please.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:20:48 PM
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that Portugal would rather have ECHR rule on this than have to do it themselves?

Many of us will be content to wait and see and have no need to fantasise about things that may never come about.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
That might prove to be rather difficult.

Not if Portugal wishes to remain in The EU and collect the hand outs.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:22:42 PM
Many of us will be content to wait and see and have no need to fantasise about things that may never come about.

Really?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:26:10 PM
I'm content to accuse Amaral of lying.

He lied.

I've demonstrated it (with appropriate quotes and references).

None the less he won his appeal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 04:27:00 PM
I suggest you remind davel of that Eleanor.

I think as amaral received a suspended sentence for lying we are safe to point this out
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:27:07 PM
Could we have a new 'slag off Amaral' thread in the members section so that Davel and Ferryman and others  can abuse him to their heart's content?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
Could we have a new 'slag off Amaral' thread in the members section so that Davel and Ferryman and others  can abuse him to their heart's content?

You confuse 'abuse' with just critique that exposes as flawed and risible this latest judgement of the Portuguese courts
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 20, 2016, 04:29:01 PM
Could we have a new 'slag off Amaral' thread in the members section so that Davel and Ferryman and others  can abuse him to their heart's content?

What's wrong with us expressing our opinion on the slagging off the McCanns thread
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:31:25 PM
Not if Portugal wishes to remain in The EU and collect the hand outs.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 04:32:15 PM
Sorry, I couldn't resist that little joke. I knew what the reaction would be.  @)(++(*

Still, who knows what may happen? The impossible (according to some) has happened in Portugal. The guy who didn't have a hope of being allowed to appeal was allowed to appeal. Then he won; another impossibility according to some. As few understand Portuguese law and legal processes their surprise is...........surprising. It seems the original judge didn't correctly interpret the matter of judicial secrecy, for example, so what hope UK people had of deciding if she was correct I don't know. Of course some didn't even understand what she based her judgement on.

Some didn't even know it was a libel trial ... until the appeal against the judgement was upheld ... then they seemed to cotton on.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:32:26 PM
I suggest you remind davel and ferryman of that Eleanor.

I am not in a position at the moment wherein I feel justified in actively preventing it.  I asked politely.

John will no doubt decide.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:33:30 PM
None the less he won his appeal.

To say whatever he liked.  There are two sides to that coin.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:34:12 PM
I think as amaral received a suspended sentence for lying we are safe to point this out

Perjury would be better.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:34:57 PM
Could we have a new 'slag off Amaral' thread in the members section so that Davel and Ferryman and others  can abuse him to their heart's content?

Suck it and see.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:36:19 PM
What's wrong with us expressing our opinion on the slagging off the McCanns thread

Is there a specific one ? - then fine by me.  I just thought this particular thread was getting filled up with irrelevant  junk which makes it more difficult for people to catch up,
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:37:40 PM
To say whatever he liked.  There are two sides to that coin.

I am of the opinion that some are not interested in the law, they don't even want vengeance they want a reckoning.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 04:40:06 PM
I don't suppose it's crossed anyone's mind that Portugal would rather have ECHR rule on this than have to do it themselves?

It certainly hadn't crossed mine, but now that you have raised the question it is certainly worth thinking about.  Who knows how many internal problems it may solve when one remembers the many active and pending cases going through the Portuguese courts at the moment, the nature of them and the persons accused.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 04:45:01 PM

Only if the lying is a component of the original case and the appeal.
Now it would appear that the courts took all this into account so why are you so pissed off about it?
Is it your money? are you, your friends and family involved?
As no one knows what happened on May 3rd 2007 apart from the perps you seem to be rattled over events you are dreaming up in your own mind.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 04:46:48 PM
Only if the lying is a component of the original case and the appeal.
Now it would appear that the courts took all this into account so why are you so pissed off about it?
Is it your money? are you, your friends and family involved?
As no one knows what happened on May 3rd 2007 apart from the perps you seem to be rattled over events you are dreaming up in your own mind.

Well said Alice.  8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 04:47:36 PM
None the less he won his appeal.

You acknowledge that he lied, and are interested, only, that he won his appeal.

What's to say?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:48:37 PM
You acknowledge that he lied, and are interested, only, that he won his appeal.

What's to say?

That what this thread is about in case you hadn't noticed.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 04:53:18 PM

Moderation seems a bit on-sided today as well , but why am I surprised?

You might have to prove that.  But you won't be able to.  Or are you completely incapable of understanding that a Moderator's opinion is not reflected in their Moderating?
Would it be if you were a Moderator?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 04:55:45 PM
Its not what you post as opinion that I'm commenting about, rather what you permit to remain, or not that others post.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 05:01:53 PM
Its not what you post as opinion that I'm commenting about, rather what you permit to remain, or not that others post.

You will have to talk to John about that.  He knows what we all do.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 05:02:20 PM
That what this thread is about in case you hadn't noticed.

Exploration of why he won his appeal is invited by the topic-title, as is expressions of surprise (that he won his appeal) as well as fleshing out the reasons for that surprise ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
When Amaral attributed to Harrison the assertion that Harrison had said Madeleine is definitely dead, was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

When Amaral suggested Harrison hinted Madeleine's own parents (Kate and Gerry) might even be responsible (for Madeleine's death), was Amaral incompetent?

Or did Amaral lie?

All ways up, Amaral made assertions (purporting to be 'truth') that were actually untrue, and that traduced the reputations of Kate and Gerry:

                     
PROVED!

We're you present at every conversation between Amaral and Harrison?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 05:07:16 PM
Exploration of why he won his appeal is invited by the topic-title, as is expressions of surprise (that he won his appeal) as well as fleshing out the reasons for that surprise ...

By introducing claims about insanity and fascism, you mean?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 20, 2016, 05:09:04 PM
We're you present at every conversation between Amaral and Harrison?

Can you provide a cite that any conversation ever took place between them?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 05:12:01 PM
You are all getting much leeway at the moment, although some of you don't seem to realise.

But, we will have no more accusations against Moderators, no matter their leanings.  Any further accusations will result in Warnings.  Probably from me, in case you wondered.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Angelo222 on April 20, 2016, 05:13:39 PM
Exploration of why he won his appeal is invited by the topic-title, as is expressions of surprise (that he won his appeal) as well as fleshing out the reasons for that surprise ...

I haven't read the full judgement but it appears to me that the three judges were of the view that Amaral did nothing wrong in espousing his thesis since it was based on the files.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 05:19:12 PM
Were you present at every conversation between Amaral and Harrison?

I've read the relevant extracts from Amaral's book and from Harrison's report.

That'll do ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 05:21:51 PM
I haven't read the full judgement but it appears to me that the three judges were of the view that Amaral did nothing wrong in espousing his thesis since it was based on the files.

In large (and significant) areas, Amaral's book is not based on the files. I've demonstrated a key example with my quotes above.

But it is far from the only example.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 05:23:14 PM
Exploration of why he won his appeal is invited by the topic-title, as is expressions of surprise (that he won his appeal) as well as fleshing out the reasons for that surprise ...

**Snip
We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children.
The Truth of the lie: Chapter 18: Goncalo Amaral


I remain incredulous that misinformation such as the above was printed in the first instance. It demonstrates the total misunderstanding of forensics and lack of knowledge of the senior investigating officer in charge of a missing child case.

I am doubly incredulous that the Portuguese courts in the name of freedom of expression have accepted that such inaccuracies supersede Article Six of the European Human Rights Act.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 05:30:24 PM
I haven't read the full judgement but it appears to me that the three judges were of the view that Amaral did nothing wrong in espousing his thesis since it was based on the files.

No one has seen the full judgement in English, but I doubt that there is much to discuss semantically.

Some of us are learning a huge amount about Portuguese Law, albeit in its infancy, but there is some obscure logic to it if you try to look at it from a different stance.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 20, 2016, 05:48:36 PM
Some didn't even know it was a libel trial ... until the appeal against the judgement was upheld ... then they seemed to cotton on.

The trial was about damages not libel, even if all of the newspapers said it was a libel trial.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 05:50:16 PM
The trial was about damages not libel, even if all of the newspapers said it was a libel trial.

Cite?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 06:09:01 PM
The trial was about damages not libel, even if all of the newspapers said it was a libel trial.

This seems to be the problem.  I can see the difference, but most people can't.  Although it is a very fine line.

However, I am not three pleased about the decision of The Appeal Court because some damage was undoubtedly done.  Even if only to the  reputations of McCanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 06:10:12 PM
**Snip
We confidently wait for the evaluation reports from FSS. A few days after the samples are sent, we are informed that the DNA of the blood found in the boot of the McCanns' car shows a significant match - 50% - with Gerald's, which means that it is definitely the blood of one of his children.
The Truth of the lie: Chapter 18: Goncalo Amaral


I remain incredulous that misinformation such as the above was printed in the first instance. It demonstrates the total misunderstanding of forensics and lack of knowledge of the senior investigating officer in charge of a missing child case.

I am doubly incredulous that the Portuguese courts in the name of freedom of expression have accepted that such inaccuracies supersede Article Six of the European Human Rights Act.

Yep.

And Amaral contradicted (and corrected!) Stuart Prior on interpretation of the forensic results (apparently).

We don't see Stuart Prior's report ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 06:13:00 PM
This seems to be the problem.  I can see the difference, but most people can't.  Although it is a very fine line.

However, I am not three pleased about the decision of The Appeal Court because some damage was undoubtedly done.  Even if only to the  reputations of McCanns.

Shame about that. Shall we ask them to reverse it for you?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 06:14:09 PM
This seems to be the problem.  I can see the difference, but most people can't.  Although it is a very fine line.

However, I am not three pleased about the decision of The Appeal Court because some damage was undoubtedly done.  Even if only to the  reputations of McCanns.

I'm among those who can't.

Could you explain?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 06:19:45 PM
Cite?

I don't think we need a cite, Ferryman.  Much as I understand your feelings, and mine.  But I am not allowing emotion to govern me at the moment, certainly not in so far as Portuguese Law is concerned.

We just carry on supporting The McCanns, in so far as we are able.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 06:22:52 PM
Shame about that. Shall we ask them to reverse it for you?

If you can't see a hand offered in mitigation then shame on you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 06:33:52 PM
I'm among those who can't.

Could you explain?

It's a brain thing.  It's there or it isn't.  You can see it or you can't.  I don't have to agree with it to see it.  I guess that you have to be like me and see everyone's side of the story.  Which is mostly half way down the middle.  But only legally speaking.

My opinion on this is only legal.  It does not in any way detract from my support of The McCanns.  That is just another legal opinion.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: AerialHunter on April 20, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
This was always going to be the outcome. The sole job of policing anywhere is to protect the Judiciary and policing itself. An unsolved case has no interest for them. Amaral just saw an opportunity to write a book and put down his own thoughts as a police officer, if there was anything controversial it was only intended to spice things up and make it a bit more interesting, what other motive could he have. I see he now intends to sue in return because he has suffered losses because of the delay in releasing the book. The system is universal, it is the same anywhere, the unstoppable government controlled force will take a result, any result, it doesn't matter to anyone who goes down for anything. The system will win.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2016, 06:47:58 PM
MOD NOTE

Your point of view on this is fine.  You are entitled to your opinion, and to express it.

But posts which break the forum rules will end up in the waste bucket.  Start of.  End of.

Try expressing your point of view in a civil manner.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 07:00:25 PM
I haven't read the full judgement but it appears to me that the three judges were of the view that Amaral did nothing wrong in espousing his thesis since it was based on the files.

See, based on the files.

Amaral says Eddie scented death all over the place.

That's in the files (Almeida's interim report)

But it's also in the files (both Grime and Harrison) that no incriminating inference can be made from the reactions of the dogs.

So .....

Can Amaral say it?

Or can't he?

It is in the files ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 07:02:34 PM
Are these the files that you don't trust the translation of?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 20, 2016, 07:42:41 PM
Madeleine McCann’s parents threaten legal action on people caught selling Gonzalo Amaral's book in UK

Madeleine McCann’s parents have warned anyone caught selling ex-police chief Gonzalo Amaral's book in the UK would face legal action.

Kate and Gerry McCann already face fresh heartache after the cop who led the bungled hunt for their missing daughter said he plans to sue them.

Amaral is set to demand compensation from Gerry and Kate McCann after he won a libel court case appeal.

The 56-year-old claims the couple cost him money and harmed his reputation during the long-running legal battle .

Portuguese legal sources say the compensation bill could run into the “hundreds of thousands of Euros”.

Amaral was told pay the McCanns £360,000 after penning a book claiming they were responsible for Madeleine’s death.

The couple, from Rothley, Leics, vowed to spend “every penny” of the cash on the hunt for their missing daughter.

But those plans were put on hold last May when Amaral, the officer tasked with finding Madeleine, lodged an appeal.

Read more: Police chief to 'sue Madeleine McCann's parents for compensation

Kate and Gerry were left “seething” when three Portuguese appeal judges ruled in his favour on Monday.

They are taking the case to Portugal’s Supreme Court - which will have the final say on whether Amaral should pay damages.

The ex-officer’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues announced plans to sue the McCanns just hours after the surprise libel U-turn.

He said: “We are going to advance with a compensation claim against the McCanns. My client has suffered years of prejudice and losses.”

Mr Rodrigues added Amaral has suffered “years of financial losses in which his good name has been called into question.”

Read more: Madeleine McCann can still be found alive, says top cop

A source close to Kate and Gerry accused him of waging a “relentless battle” against them.

The friend said: “It’s exasperating for them and they don’t need this on top of everything else. Mr Amaral has profited from their pain.

“It was never about them winning damages which will now be put on hold while they appeal. This could continue for years.”

The former police chief is hoping his banned book ‘The Truth of the Lie’ can go on sale throughout Europe.

Ex-GP Kate described it in court as “devastating and distressing” during the libel battle with Amaral.

Read more: Madeleine McCann’s parents 'seething' as police chief wins libel appeal against them

The Portuguese appeal judges said he had a right to express his opinions in the 2008 book.

They also said the McCanns paved the way for people to express their opinions” by giving media interviews themselves.

A spokesman for the couple warned anyone caught selling the book in the UK would face legal action.

Kate and Gerry began their legal battle with Amaral in 2009 after he penned the book.

He said they faked her abduction after she died in their Praia da Luz holiday apartment in May 2007.

‘The Truth of the Lie’ is currently banned from sale in the UK but was a best-seller in Portugal.

More than 120,000 copies were sold before it was removed from the shelves after the McCanns won an injunction.

Amaral was thrown off the Madeleine investigation after publicly criticising British police involved in the long-running case.

He denied defamation and claimed everything in the book was based on police and court files on the case, which have been made public.

Madeleine, who would turn 13 next month, vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment on the Algarve in 2007.

Kate and Gerry were dining with friends at a poolside tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club complex at the time.

The youngster’s twin siblings Amelie and Sean, who are now 11, were sleeping in the same room.

Kate, a GP, said earlier this year that she thinks her eldest daughter, who would turn 13 next month, is still in the Algarve.

But despite a massive police investigation in Portugal and a four-year probe by British cops, she has never been found.

Her parents were dismayed last year when the Scotland Yard investigation into her disappearance was scaled back.

But they were given a boost on Monday when Det Chief Supt Duthie insisted the £12m probe is “ongoing”.

He said: “There is ongoing work. There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive.

“That’s what we want and that’s what the family and the public want and that is why the Home Office continue to fund it.

“There is work that needs to be done still,” added the head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Major Crime Command.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 07:51:41 PM
Madeleine McCann’s parents threaten legal action on people caught selling Gonzalo Amaral's book in UK

Madeleine McCann’s parents have warned anyone caught selling ex-police chief Gonzalo Amaral's book in the UK would face legal action.

Kate and Gerry McCann already face fresh heartache after the cop who led the bungled hunt for their missing daughter said he plans to sue them.

Amaral is set to demand compensation from Gerry and Kate McCann after he won a libel court case appeal.

The 56-year-old claims the couple cost him money and harmed his reputation during the long-running legal battle .

Portuguese legal sources say the compensation bill could run into the “hundreds of thousands of Euros”.

Amaral was told pay the McCanns £360,000 after penning a book claiming they were responsible for Madeleine’s death.

The couple, from Rothley, Leics, vowed to spend “every penny” of the cash on the hunt for their missing daughter.

But those plans were put on hold last May when Amaral, the officer tasked with finding Madeleine, lodged an appeal.

Read more: Police chief to 'sue Madeleine McCann's parents for compensation

Kate and Gerry were left “seething” when three Portuguese appeal judges ruled in his favour on Monday.

They are taking the case to Portugal’s Supreme Court - which will have the final say on whether Amaral should pay damages.

The ex-officer’s lawyer Miguel Cruz Rodrigues announced plans to sue the McCanns just hours after the surprise libel U-turn.

He said: “We are going to advance with a compensation claim against the McCanns. My client has suffered years of prejudice and losses.”

Mr Rodrigues added Amaral has suffered “years of financial losses in which his good name has been called into question.”

Read more: Madeleine McCann can still be found alive, says top cop

A source close to Kate and Gerry accused him of waging a “relentless battle” against them.

The friend said: “It’s exasperating for them and they don’t need this on top of everything else. Mr Amaral has profited from their pain.

“It was never about them winning damages which will now be put on hold while they appeal. This could continue for years.”

The former police chief is hoping his banned book ‘The Truth of the Lie’ can go on sale throughout Europe.

Ex-GP Kate described it in court as “devastating and distressing” during the libel battle with Amaral.

Read more: Madeleine McCann’s parents 'seething' as police chief wins libel appeal against them

The Portuguese appeal judges said he had a right to express his opinions in the 2008 book.

They also said the McCanns paved the way for people to express their opinions” by giving media interviews themselves.

A spokesman for the couple warned anyone caught selling the book in the UK would face legal action.

Kate and Gerry began their legal battle with Amaral in 2009 after he penned the book.

He said they faked her abduction after she died in their Praia da Luz holiday apartment in May 2007.

‘The Truth of the Lie’ is currently banned from sale in the UK but was a best-seller in Portugal.

More than 120,000 copies were sold before it was removed from the shelves after the McCanns won an injunction.

Amaral was thrown off the Madeleine investigation after publicly criticising British police involved in the long-running case.

He denied defamation and claimed everything in the book was based on police and court files on the case, which have been made public.

Madeleine, who would turn 13 next month, vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment on the Algarve in 2007.

Kate and Gerry were dining with friends at a poolside tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club complex at the time.

The youngster’s twin siblings Amelie and Sean, who are now 11, were sleeping in the same room.

Kate, a GP, said earlier this year that she thinks her eldest daughter, who would turn 13 next month, is still in the Algarve.

But despite a massive police investigation in Portugal and a four-year probe by British cops, she has never been found.

Her parents were dismayed last year when the Scotland Yard investigation into her disappearance was scaled back.

But they were given a boost on Monday when Det Chief Supt Duthie insisted the £12m probe is “ongoing”.

He said: “There is ongoing work. There is always a possibility that we will find Madeleine and we hope that we will find her alive.

“That’s what we want and that’s what the family and the public want and that is why the Home Office continue to fund it.

“There is work that needs to be done still,” added the head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Major Crime Command.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363

The mccanns are going to be very disappointed as both the book and video are easily accessible on the net.

..and I feel sure after yesterday even more people will want to see what his thesis was.

Someone might want to tell the mccanns that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 07:53:09 PM
Does that just mean that the book cannot be sold in UK, but people are free to read it ?
Would that stop people from buying it  from  outside this country?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 07:56:29 PM
The mccanns are going to be very disappointed as both the book and video are easily accessible on the net.

..and I feel sure after yesterday even more people will want to see what his thesis was.

Someone might want to tell the mccanns that.


Sounds a bit of a futile gesture, doesn't it?
Do the McCanns not realise there is a far wider audience outside of the UK?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 07:57:45 PM

Sounds a bit of a futile gesture, doesn't it?

Indeed Jassi.

It must be a result of all that seething. 8)-)))

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 07:58:35 PM
Anyone know by who the book is banned from uk sales? (As mentined in that Mirror article)?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 08:00:12 PM
Anyone know by who the book is banned from uk sales? (As mentined in that Mirror article)?

By decree of the McCanns via their bully boys Carter Ruck, no doubt.

Could be an expensive business if they had to apply for a writ (or whatever) in every country in the world.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
By decree of the McCanns via their bully boys Carter Ruck, no doubt.

Oh, so not by any court ruling, ok, thanks.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:06:37 PM
In England no one can get away with writing a book saying X dunit after a full and exhaustive enquiry has conclusively demonstrated that X didn't (do it!)

This (latest) court ruling on Amaral's book tends to suggest that in Portugal, you can.

I think England has the better balance ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:09:22 PM
In England no one can get away with writing a book saying X dunit after a full and exhaustive enquiry has conclusively demonstrated that X didn't (do it!)

This (latest) court ruling on Amaral's book tends to suggest that in Portugal, you can.

I think England has the better balance ...

Haven't you got the message yet, the book and video are easily accessed on the net.

It's too late for the mccanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 08:12:41 PM
Haven't you got the message yet, the book and video are easily accessed on the net.

It's too late for the mccanns.


And the more fuss that is made about it, the more people will attempt to read it - just like this celebrity injunction farce.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:25:18 PM

And the more fuss that is made about it, the more people will attempt to read it - just like this celebrity injunction farce.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 08:31:02 PM
The mccanns are going to be very disappointed as both the book and video are easily accessible on the net.

..and I feel sure after yesterday even more people will want to see what his thesis was.

Someone might want to tell the mccanns that.

Apparently the case was a popular search on google yesterday; 11th on google trends.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 08:32:47 PM

And the more fuss that is made about it, the more people will attempt to read it - just like this celebrity injunction farce.

Didn't someone comment on the futility of an injunction that stops at Hadrian's Wall ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 08:36:22 PM
Would that apply in this case?  Would Scotland require a separate legal  writ  to England ?

Can any of our self proclaimed legal experts  give an opinion?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 08:40:51 PM
In England no one can get away with writing a book saying X dunit after a full and exhaustive enquiry has conclusively demonstrated that X didn't (do it!)

This (latest) court ruling on Amaral's book tends to suggest that in Portugal, you can.

I think England has the better balance ...

It was not concluded at all, if it was, none of this would be happening
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:50:56 PM
It was not concluded at all, if it was, none of this would be happening

It was concluded that the McCanns are innocent.

And a second enquiry was launched because, although the initial enquiry firmly established the innocence of the McCanns, it made little headway in establishing the identity of perpetrator(s) of crime(s) against Madeleine or finding her.

Hence the second enquiry ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 08:51:10 PM
Would that apply in this case?  Would Scotland require a separate legal  writ  to England ?

Can any of our self proclaimed legal experts  give an opinion?

Are you suggesting that Amaral's book can be published in English, in England?  Find a Publisher.  Ditto Scotland.

Is this censorship?  That might be an interesting question.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 08:52:23 PM
Would that apply in this case?  Would Scotland require a separate legal  writ  to England ?

Can any of our self proclaimed legal experts  give an opinion?

Scotland has its own legal system, separate from england and wales, not sure of the ins and outs though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36071568

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 08:53:42 PM
It was concluded that the McCanns are innocent.

And a second enquiry was launched because, although the initial enquiry firmly established the innocence of the McCanns, it made little headway in establishing the identity of perpetrator(s) of crime(s) against Madeleine or finding her.

Hence the second enquiry ....

No FM, things are not as you portray them
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:54:04 PM
Are you suggesting that Amaral's book can be published in English, in England?  Find a Publisher.  Ditto Scotland.

Is this censorship?  That might be an interesting question.

Amaral would be free to publish in England; the McCanns, free to sue.

I imagine the same would be true in Scotland (which has separate legislature from England).
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:54:27 PM
It was concluded that the McCanns are innocent.

And a second enquiry was launched because, although the initial enquiry firmly established the innocence of the McCanns, it made little headway in establishing the identity of perpetrator(s) of crime(s) against Madeleine or finding her.

Hence the second enquiry ....

Innocent of what ferryman ?

The first investigation was shelved due to the lack of evidence.

The crime is unknown.

Stop trying to twist the truth.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:55:00 PM
No FM, things are not as you portray them

I have portrayed it exactly as it is.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 08:56:06 PM
I have portrayed it exactly as it is.

No you haven't.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 08:56:44 PM
I have portrayed it exactly as it is.

You have not. You seldom do on contentious issues,
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 08:57:36 PM
You have not. You seldom do on contentious issues,

What do you think I've got wrong?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 08:58:25 PM
Amaral would be free to publish in England; the McCanns, free to sue.

I imagine the same would be true in Scotland (which has separate legislature from England).

Well, I suppose he could always Self Publish.  But that's about it.  If he wants to take on that.  But why should he?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 08:59:41 PM
Innocent of what ferryman ?

The first investigation was shelved due to the lack of evidence.

The crime is unknown.

Stop trying to twist the truth.

Et tois aussi.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:01:27 PM
What do you think I've got wrong?

Your post is your personal interpretation of events and facts...eg no official  bod has ever stated let alone concluded the mccanns are innocent
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:01:45 PM
Et tois aussi.

What truth am I twisting Eleanor ?

La verite ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:02:07 PM
Are you suggesting that Amaral's book can be published in English, in England?  Find a Publisher.  Ditto Scotland.

Is this censorship?  That might be an interesting question.

I'm not suggesting anything.
The McCanns view regarding publication of Amaral's book has never been tested in  law because sellers/publishers have so far declined to take it to court.
I was wondering whether separate writs would be required for England & Scotland.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
Are you suggesting that Amaral's book can be published in English, in England?  Find a Publisher.  Ditto Scotland.

Is this censorship?  That might be an interesting question.

Very.
Furnish the board with a list of "banned" books in the uk

Who bans books?

They would have been MILES better off today  if they hadnt created this pointless exercise
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:05:09 PM
Well, I suppose he could always Self Publish.  But that's about it.  If he wants to take on that.  But why should he?

He may have little difficulty in finding publishers/sellers outside of UK.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 09:08:07 PM
Would that apply in this case?  Would Scotland require a separate legal  writ  to England ?

Can any of our self proclaimed legal experts  give an opinion?

Separate legal system ... same intolerance for libel.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:10:03 PM
Separate legal system ... same intolerance for libel.

Only libel if it isnt true though, isnt it? And seeing as its a cold unsolved case, a theory cant be libel
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:10:22 PM
Your post is your personal interpretation of events and facts...eg no official  bod has ever stated let alone concluded the mccanns are innocent

There was no need for any official bod to.

The McCanns were accused (but not charged) by the Portuguese arguido system then the status was dropped after a year-long investigation adduced no evidence against them.

Same for Robert Murat.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:11:24 PM
Separate legal system ... same intolerance for libel.

And presumably additional cost.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 09:12:48 PM
Only libel if it isnt true though, isnt it? And seeing as its a cold unsolved case, a theory cant be libel

Then he won't have a problem finding a publisher to publish it and a bookseller to stock it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:14:00 PM
Only libel if it isnt true though, isnt it? And seeing as its a cold unsolved case, a theory cant be libel

The evidence of this latest ruling in Portugal would seem to suggest that's true there; certainly not in England, and I very much doubt, in Scotland.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:15:00 PM
I suppose he might find a printer/publisher somewhere in Europe and then sell by mail order.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 09:16:21 PM

And the more fuss that is made about it, the more people will attempt to read it - just like this celebrity injunction farce.

Two books come to mind immediately. Lady Chatterley's Lover and The Spycatcher. Both sold very well following attempts to ban them in the UK.

Censorship makes people curious. Most people wouldn't have heard of Amaral's book if the Mccanns had ignored it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2016, 09:16:31 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already but it is reported that the McCanns have threatened anyone who sell the book in the UK with legal action.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:18:02 PM
There was no need for any official bod to.

The McCanns were accused (but not charged) by the Portuguese arguido system then the status was dropped after a year-long investigation adduced no evidence against them.

Same for Robert Murat.

Not the same as being viewed as innocent, and yes, the case "requires" an official bod to state as much before you can alledge that they have been declared so
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:19:24 PM
Then he won't have a problem finding a publisher to publish it and a bookseller to stock it.
He might not be bothered, he has won his case, thats more important than making money
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:21:06 PM
The evidence of this latest ruling in Portugal would seem to suggest that's true there; certainly not in England, and I very much doubt, in Scotland.

So in the uk you can say somethng that is true and it be called libel? How bizarre
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:24:09 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already but it is reported that the McCanns have threatened anyone who sell the book in the UK with legal action.
Yes

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363

thats what they do, as if it is going to help their daughter
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:28:16 PM
Yes

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363

thats what they do, as if it is going to help their daughter

Absolutely.

How else would they find their daughter ..

They could of course try physically searching.

Now there is a novelty.

.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:30:02 PM
Not the same as being viewed as innocent

Entirely the same as being viewed as innocent; indeed, being innocent.

Then Amaral wrote a book accusing the McCanns of heinous crimes; not quite murder, but heinous crimes, the McCaanns (successfully) sued him for libel and now the Portuguese courts have decided he was, after all, entitled to make baseless accusations against the McCanns.

Most strange ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2016, 09:30:55 PM
Yes

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363

thats what they do, as if it is going to help their daughter

Nothing they do will help their daughter - IMO
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:33:19 PM
Entirely the same as being viewed as innocent; indeed, being innocent.

Then Amaral wrote a book accusing the McCanns of heinous crimes; not quite murder, but heinous crimes, the McCaanns (successfully) sued him for libel and now the Portuguese courts have decided he was, after all, entitled to make baseless accusations against the McCanns.

Most strange ....

What are the mccanns innocent of exactly ?

The crime unknown, if any.

No evidence that could stand up in court of what happened to Madeleine.

The mccanns remain in limbo.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 09:34:14 PM
Nothing they do will help their daughter - IMO

agree and its time people  come out of  denial
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:34:54 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already but it is reported that the McCanns have threatened anyone who sell the book in the UK with legal action.

What's news about that?

Always been the case, and will remain the case even if Portuguese courts decide irrevocably that Amaral's baseless accusations are not libel in Portugal
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:36:35 PM
What are the mccanns innocent of exactly ?

The crime unknown, if any.

No evidence that could stand up in court of what happened to Madeleine.

The mccanns remain in limbo.

The McCanns are innocent of all the things Amaral accuses them of ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:38:54 PM
Entirely the same as being viewed as innocent; indeed, being innocent.

Then Amaral wrote a book accusing the McCanns of heinous crimes; not quite murder, but heinous crimes, the McCaanns (successfully) sued him for libel and now the Portuguese courts have decided he was, after all, entitled to make baseless accusations against the McCanns.

Most strange ....
No it is not the same and
No, thats not what the court decided, stop embroidering.....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 09:39:18 PM
The McCanns are innocent of all the things Amaral accuses them of ....

and you know this how were you there??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:40:29 PM
The McCanns are innocent of all the things Amaral accuses them of ....

You do not know what happened in PDL.

You weren't there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:40:59 PM
Absolutely.

How else would they find their daughter ..

They could of course try physically searching.

Now there is a novelty.

.

By using money given to them on search and not years long court cases, that only made thngs worse all around, thats how
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:43:24 PM
and you know this how were you there??

Presumption of innocence.  There is not an iota of evidence against the McCanns yet this (latest) court ruling suggests Amaral is entitled to make baseless accusations.

Most strange ....

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:47:27 PM
Nothing they do will help their daughter - IMO

Well it hasnt for 9 or so years, its down to a) she is dead b) someone will confess about this c) her remains will be found d) she is in a dungeon held and not yet found e) with a loving criminal family

Im sure there are fs and gs and hs etc

None sound good and nothing the mccanns and their advisers have done has changed anything, so imo their spending a penny more down a black to date hole is stupid

And no police or pi investigation has yielded anything either...all bizarre
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 09:49:25 PM
...

I'm stating facts.

Expressions of opinion that deny fact are just that.

The Portuguese judiciary appears (disgracefully) to be on the brink of upholding the right of baseless opinion that traduces to hold sway.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 09:50:25 PM
I'm stating facts.

Expressions of opinion that deny fact are just that.

The Portuguese judiciary appears (disgracefully) to be on the brink of upholding the right of baseless opinion that traduces to hold sway.

No you are not.

The crime is unknown and don't kid yourself otherwise.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:51:10 PM
Presumption of innocence.  There is not an iota of evidence against the McCanns yet this (latest) court ruling suggests Amaral is entitled to make baseless accusations.

Most strange ....

Brietta made the same mistake a short while ago, presumptiom of innocence (in a legal setting) i s not the same as innocence...and statng it as fact as you and others do

in a free thnking world setting, no one has any right to dictate thoughts...thats fascism dear not the fascism you davel and others talked about earlier
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 09:53:20 PM
intresting that the mcanns are still making threats even though they lost isnt it??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:53:46 PM
I'm stating facts.

Expressions of opinion that deny fact are just that.

The Portuguese judiciary appears (disgracefully) to be on the brink of upholding the right of baseless opinion that traduces to hold sway.

It was NOT baseless opinion...dont reinterpret the court ruling
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 09:56:44 PM
intresting that the mcanns are still making threats even though they lost isnt it??

Reputation management , but i think their reputation was shot from 3 may, maybe they could sue themselves hey? I think its disgusting they should even countenance wasting more of the fund for lawyers instead of putting the monies where they belong
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 09:59:14 PM
Ask the dogs Dave.

 @)(++(*  dogs have higher  IQ then some humans
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:00:19 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already but it is reported that the McCanns have threatened anyone who sell the book in the UK with legal action.

Is that akin to book burning?
After The Star's headline today it is a bit like shutting the door after the hoss is gorn.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 10:01:20 PM
Oh well, Im sure when i return in a couple hours, same arguments  wll be going round and round, toodles for now
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 10:03:02 PM
Is that akin to book burning?
After The Star's headline today it is a bit like shutting the door after the hoss is gorn.


a  bit like the saying   the horse has bolted??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:08:09 PM

a  bit like the saying   the horse has bolted??

yup
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
What truth am I twisting Eleanor ?

La verite ?

There is no absolute truth, Stephen.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 10:11:40 PM
I'm not suggesting anything.
The McCanns view regarding publication of Amaral's book has never been tested in  law because sellers/publishers have so far declined to take it to court.
I was wondering whether separate writs would be required for England & Scotland.

Probably.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 10:14:03 PM
And presumably additional cost.

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 10:16:32 PM
Brietta made the same mistake a short while ago, presumptiom of innocence (in a legal setting) i s not the same as innocence...and statng it as fact as you and others do

in a free thnking world setting, no one has any right to dictate thoughts...thats fascism dear not the fascism you davel and others talked about earlier

Of course no one can dictate thoughts.  But individuals can exercise autonomy not to accuse without foundation.

The Portuguese courts (disgracefully) appear on the brink of upholding Amaral's right to do precisely that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 10:21:34 PM
Brietta made the same mistake a short while ago, presumptiom of innocence (in a legal setting) i s not the same as innocence...and statng it as fact as you and others do

in a free thnking world setting, no one has any right to dictate thoughts...thats fascism dear not the fascism you davel and others talked about earlier

Brietta doesn't make mistakes.  Belay that Pipe.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 10:25:13 PM
@)(++(*  dogs have higher  IQ then some humans

Indeed they do.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2016, 10:25:43 PM
Brietta doesn't make mistakes.  Belay that Pipe.

Everyone makes mistakes.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 10:26:28 PM
Brietta doesn't make mistakes.  Belay that Pipe.

In that case Brietta has never tried anything new.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 10:47:24 PM
Brietta made the same mistake a short while ago, presumptiom of innocence (in a legal setting) i s not the same as innocence...and statng it as fact as you and others do

in a free thnking world setting, no one has any right to dictate thoughts...thats fascism dear not the fascism you davel and others talked about earlier


You have totally lost me.  However it is interesting to see that at least up until August 2014 Portugal were adhering to Article 6 of the ECHR ... wonder what happened to change that.

No doubt all may be revealed in the fullness of time.


Report on Portugal
Section 1
Decisions of violation of Article 5 and 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights
(ECHR) by Portugal in criminal proceedings over the last two years, as determined by
the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR)

The following sets out the number of violation decisions the ECtHR has made against
Portugal under Articles 5 and 6, since April 2012 up to the date of this country report.

Overview of violation findings:

(b) Article 6

 Right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty [Article 6 (2)] – no breaches.

https://www.fairtrials.org/wp-content/uploads/Report-on-Portugal-2.pdf
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2016, 10:49:28 PM
What's news about that?

Always been the case, and will remain the case even if Portuguese courts decide irrevocably that Amaral's baseless accusations are not libel in Portugal

What piece of legislation will they use ferryman ? Who will pay for the litigation ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 10:51:36 PM
The McCanns lawyer said this about the appeal;

'This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3547951/Portuguese-detective-WINS-appeal-against-libel-defeat-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-NOT-pay-500-000-damages.html#ixzz46P9CNi8H
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

That's interesting because the Lower Court judgement was based on an appreciation of the law and not the facts. It stands to reason, therefore, that the Appeal Court followed the same path and rejected the lower court judge's 'appreciation of the law'.

If a Supreme Court appeal is lodged it looks like she will base it on the facts, then. I assume by that she means the proven and unproven facts listed by the first judge.

Some of those facts were rejected by the Supreme Court when they overturned the interim ban on Amaral's book in 2010, so it will be interesting to see what they decide if they are asked to reconsider them. This is what they said in 2010;
The McCann couple alleges that Gonçalo Amaral's book, as well as the interviews that he gave about it, prompt "a serious and hardly reparable damage" to their family, especially to the twins, Sean and Amelie. They invoked damages to the protection of their private and family life and damages to their good name and their image rights.

"the contents of the book does not offend any of the applicants' fundamental rights. The exercise of its writing and publication is included in the constitutional rights that are ensured to everyone by the European Convention of Human Rights and by the Portuguese Republic's Constitution"
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html

I think the lady may have her work cut out trying to persuade the Supreme Court that they were mistaken, but you never know.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:01:20 PM

You have totally lost me.  However it is interesting to see that at least up until August 2014 Portugal were adhering to Article 6 of the ECHR ... wonder what happened to change that.

No doubt all may be revealed in the fullness of time.


Report on Portugal
Section 1
Decisions of violation of Article 5 and 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights
(ECHR) by Portugal in criminal proceedings over the last two years, as determined by
the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR)

The following sets out the number of violation decisions the ECtHR has made against
Portugal under Articles 5 and 6, since April 2012 up to the date of this country report.

Overview of violation findings:

(b) Article 6

 Right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty [Article 6 (2)] – no breaches.

https://www.fairtrials.org/wp-content/uploads/Report-on-Portugal-2.pdf

There is nothing much to be lost about, my point was that you stated as a fact that the mccanns were innocent, when it is not an established fact, just a presumed as such right, just as i said to ferryman when making such statements
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:03:08 PM
Of course no one can dictate thoughts.  But individuals can exercise autonomy not to accuse without foundation.

The Portuguese courts (disgracefully) appear on the brink of upholding Amaral's right to do precisely that.
No, they did not, as he made his thesis from the police investigation, remember he was REMOVED in oct 07
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:10:32 PM
No, they did not, as he made his thesis from the police investigation, remember he was REMOVED in oct 07

The first enquiry was shelved in August 2008, with an archiving dispatch making plain there was no foundation or basis of accusation against the McCanns.

Then Amaral wrote a book saying TheMcCannsdunit.

And his right to say that appears on the brink of being upheld.

Disgraceful ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 11:12:05 PM
The first enquiry was shelved in August 2008, with an archiving dispatch making plain there was no foundation or basis of accusation against the McCanns.

Then Amaral wrote a book saying TheMcCannsdunit.

And his right to say that appears on the brink of being upheld.

Disgraceful ....

Yeah we heard you the first time about twenty pages ago.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:13:45 PM
Yeah we heard you the first time about twenty pages ago.

Truths become no less true for repetition.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:14:21 PM
The first enquiry was shelved in August 2008, with an archiving dispatch making plain there was no foundation or basis of accusation against the McCanns.

Then Amaral wrote a book saying TheMcCannsdunit.

And his right to say that appears on the brink of being upheld.

Disgraceful ....
The point we were discussing pages back was they were never really exonnerated...all else is bluster
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:19:21 PM
The point we were discussing pages back was they were never really exonnerated...all else is bluster

No, they weren't exonerated, because to be exonerated, you first need to be charged then tried.

They were accused via the arguido status, which was dropped (without charges being brought), then Amaral wrote a book saying theMcCannsdunit, and the Portuguese civil courts have ultimately upheld his right to do so, unless the McCanns successfully appeal.

Upholding the right (of a disgraced ex-police officer) to accuse without foundation is, really, not Portugal's finest hour
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 20, 2016, 11:19:37 PM
Truths become no less true for repetition.

How would you know that?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:20:01 PM
@)(++(* mercury  have  you noticed  eleanor  is taking her anger out on me  not that it worrys me   8)-)))  but not  very mod  like

You are at liberty to criticise me in so far as I am concerned.  But you will not criticise any other Moderator on my watch.  So, beware.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:20:32 PM
didnt  someone once say people are jealous  of kates boobs??   LOL @)(++(*

Dont thnk so lol

I get you Carly, dont fret, nothings changed in 9 years, the orignators of lies and abuse on mirror forums ie mccann supporters are still at it, and for what? They dug their own graves when they tried to dictate and shut debate and then jump to seriously nasty postings....i never seen the mccanns criticise any of them either
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
Try to have some dignity if possible...sil and brietta manage it as mods, why cant you, youve had more practice lol

Are you allowed to abuse psters but in the same breath say no criticsm of mods is allowed, how hypocritical, maybe its time YOU went to bed, and reported btw

Tis time that you realised that I also have a right, and also some authority.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:24:42 PM
No, they weren't exonerated, because to be exonerated, you first need to be charged then tried.

They were accused via the arguido status, which was dropped (without charges being brought), then Amaral wrote a book saying theMcCannsdunit, and the Portuguese civil courts have ultimately upheld his right to do so, unless the McCanns successfully appeal.

Upholding the right (of a disgraced ex-police officer) to accuse without foundation is, really, not Portugal's finest hour

Still doesnt make them innocent
The pp also said another pp might have made a different decision
As for exonnerated people here have said just that
And i remind you the court said amaral worked off the investigation from may to october so  NOT unfounded...the pp report did n ncoude every inch of the files either, give it up, youre wrong here
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2016, 11:26:07 PM
Its daytime here in australia also i keep my browser open all the time besides  sabot isnt   in charge of my life is she?? 8(0(*

Who is Sabot?  Not a member of this Forum.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 20, 2016, 11:35:43 PM
You can guess (that some, at present, unknown fact or set of circumstances) makes them guilty (of something culpable in respect of Madeleine). 

I could guess that you have murdered someone or robbed a bank.

That's all it would be, a guess; (almost) certainly wrong.

Amaral appears on the brink of winning the right to traduce and malign without foundation.

And some folk find that a cause for celebration.

I find it most odd ....

About those books ferryman. Under which law would that happen ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:36:01 PM
You can guess (that some, at present, unknown fact or set of circumstances) makes them guilty (of something culpable in respect of Madeleine). 

I could guess that you have murdered someone or robbed a bank.

That's all it would be, a guess; (almost) certainly wrong.

Amaral appears on the brink of winning the right to traduce and malign without foundation.

And some folk find that a cause for celebration.

I find it most odd ....

A) you keep on about amaral, his whole team ended with a theory
B) there was foundation
C) youre not a bobby so wouldnt know
D) cause for celebration is only about the mccanns strangehold over a mans life  being crushed
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:37:33 PM
A) you keep on about amaral, his whole team ended with a theory
B) there was foundation
C) youre not a bobby so wouldnt know
D) cause for celebration is only about the mccanns strangehold over a mans life  being crushed

they were thrilled when the mcanns silenced  GA  were they  not?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:39:15 PM
A) you keep on about amaral, his whole team ended with a theory
B) there was foundation
C) youre not a bobby so wouldnt know
D) cause for celebration is only about the mccanns strangehold over a mans life  being crushed

Do him and convicted bastinado torturer Almeida make a 'whole team'?

There was no foundation (to the accusations in Amaral's book)

None ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:42:10 PM
About those books ferryman. Under which law would that happen ?

What books?

And would what happen?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:43:53 PM
Do him and convicted bastinado torturer Almeida make a 'whole team'?

There was no foundation (to the accusations in Amaral's book)

None ....

were just two policemen part of the nvestigation? Dont be so silly
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2016, 11:44:21 PM
According to the first Supreme Court ruling the 'abduction' was the McCann's 'theory', which they broadcast far and wide using the media, interviews and documentaries. That's why they saw no reason why Amaral shouldn't broadcast his 'theory' also.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:46:00 PM
According to the first Supreme Court ruling the 'abduction' was the McCann's 'theory', which they broadcast far and wide using the media, interviews and documentaries. That's why they saw no reason why Amaral shouldn't broadcast his 'theory' also.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id344.html

Whom did the McCanns accuse by promoting abduction?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:47:42 PM
Whom did the McCanns accuse by promoting abduction?

robert murat she wanted to kill him
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:49:07 PM
robert murat she wanted to kill him

Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that were disgracefully publicised by the PJ.

Try again.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
Can we cut out the insults, hyperbole and opinion dressed up as fact. It's getting far too difficult to tidy up.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2016, 11:49:56 PM
robert murat she wanted to kill him

Where is your cite for that?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:50:40 PM
were just two policemen part of the nvestigation? Dont be so silly

Just two policemen who thought the McCanns guilty.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:51:20 PM
Where is your cite for that?

it  was in her leaked private diary loook for it  yourself
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:54:21 PM
Where is your cite for that?

Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that were publicised by the PJ (who seized and read her diary)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:55:59 PM
Where is your cite for that?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.315

Already posted by PF
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 20, 2016, 11:56:20 PM
Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that were publicised by the PJ (who seized and read her diary)

And?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:57:11 PM

In her notes dated July 18, almost two months after Maddie's disappearance and at a time when there are starting to appear indicia against the McCanns, Kate sounds disheartened and reinforces the accusations against Murat: "I had lots of hope that there would be progress in Murat's situation. I'm sure that he is involved and I feel like killing him, but I can't".

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id166.html

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 20, 2016, 11:57:16 PM
Just two policemen who thought the McCanns guilty.

So you know the thoughts of all the others on the team, honestly
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 20, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
And?

i dont see anything  wrong with police  reading a diary to get  any infomation they  may have missed its doing their  job
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2016, 11:59:48 PM
And?

And what?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 21, 2016, 12:02:02 AM
And what?

You appeared to be agreeing with Carly's cite?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 12:02:37 AM
Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that were publicised by the PJ (who seized and read her diary)

Thank you FM
Stolen and sold to the press?? Did she actually write that or is it more obfuscation?  Whatever, if she was the author I think it incredibly mild if she suspected him of involvement in her daughter's disappearance.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 21, 2016, 12:03:12 AM
What books?

And would what happen?

The books that the McCanns are going to sue over if they are sold in the UK. Where would the money be coming from for the litigation and under which law would they sue ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 12:05:28 AM
You didnt answer the post, you cant go around calling people nasty little so and sos or telling them to be ashamed of themselves....i couldnt give two hoots about your "authority" besides NO ONE voted you in...lol
You were hoisted onto this forum which resulted, remember? In a mass exodus of good posters, the FORUMS loss

 8((()*/

Well, that was good, wasn't it.  Some of the extremists departed.  But most of them have since reinvented themselves.

But rest assured that no one will do to any other Moderator on this Forum anything near like what has been  done to me.

I am as tough as old boots.  Suck it up.  it is not possible to get the better of me.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 12:05:47 AM
police seize laptops and computers for  crimes  too
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 12:07:19 AM
You appeared to be agreeing with Carly's cite?

Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that ought to have been kept private but were publicised by the PJ.

I'm guessing Carly thinks Kate should be excoriated for committing thoughts to a private diary.

If she does, then I certainly don't agree with Carly.

But I do think that whoever publicised a private diary should be excoriated ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 21, 2016, 12:10:06 AM
Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that ought to have been kept private but were publicised by the PJ.

I'm guessing Carly thinks Kate should be excoriated for committing thoughts to a private diary.

If she does, then I certainly don't agree with Carly.

But I do think that whoever publicised a private diary should be excoriated ....

And still no answer ferryman ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 12:10:27 AM
police seize laptops and computers for  crimes  too

Yes, we know. Some of the data on the hard-drives analysed in the PJ files is quite an eye-opener.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 12:12:40 AM
And still no answer ferryman ?

To what?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 12:14:52 AM
The books that the McCanns are going to sue over if they are sold in the UK. Where would the money be coming from for the litigation and under which law would they sue ?

UK libel (if Amaral were stupid enough to try to sell his book, certainly, England)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 12:15:38 AM
Yes, we know. Some of the data on the hard-drives analysed in the PJ files is quite an eye-opener.

Is this you stating a fact from first hand knowledge or just trapping off for effect ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 21, 2016, 12:16:36 AM
Kate committed thoughts to a private diary that ought to have been kept private but were publicised by the PJ.

I'm guessing Carly thinks Kate should be excoriated for committing thoughts to a private diary.

If she does, then I certainly don't agree with Carly.

But I do think that whoever publicised a private diary should be excoriated ....

wasnt the diary part of the investigation and in the files?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 12:19:17 AM
Is this you stating a fact from first hand knowledge or just trapping off for effect ?

You can find it for yourself if you have the patience. I would not be allowed to post the link. But it's there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 12:19:44 AM
wasnt the diary part of the investigation and in the files?

im pretty sure  they were
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 21, 2016, 12:25:54 AM
im pretty sure  they were

I just went to check on mccannpjfiles and its taking me to a register a domain site....?? Has it gone? Or did i type it all wrong
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 12:26:43 AM
Whom did the McCanns accuse by promoting abduction?

An abductor who was known to the parents? That's a new idea. They may not have accused anyone but promotion of their theory led to hassle for innumerable people. Some of it was by the police, some instigated by the McCann's 'investigators'.

Robert Murat. Raymond Hewlett. That guy in Malta. Various families who had their children reported as being Madeleine. People who were reported as resembling all the various e-fits produced. Gail Coopers e-fit led to lots of sightings all over the UK. Did all those people have to contend with the police checking them out?

The McCanns and their 'investigators' tracked down and harassed witnesses. Those who didn't agree with their theory were silenced, reported to the police, and, in one well-known case, 'outed' to the press.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 21, 2016, 12:28:27 AM
Not forgetting mark warner staff who may have drugged madeleine
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 12:30:11 AM
I just went to check on mccannpjfiles and its taking me to a register a domain site....?? Has it gone? Or did i type it all wrong

Amaral has probably had them removed so no-one can dispute the pending UK version of his book. IMO.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 21, 2016, 12:32:42 AM
Amaral has probably had them removed so no-one can dispute the pending UK version of his book. IMO.

honestly misty LOL you ARE funny sometimes

Bed calls see ya

Ps still getting 123 register 123

try it

you might bump into him or the mccanns maybe

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 12:38:57 AM
honestly misty LOL you ARE funny sometimes

Bed calls see ya

Ps still getting 123 register 123

try it

you might bump into him or the mccanns maybe

I've tried it so I know you're correct. Bit of a coincidence if the subscription's expired.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 12:41:10 AM
Any appeal to the supreme court has to be filed within 30 days.
I predict that Duarte will be instructed to not appeal.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 12:48:56 AM
Amaral has probably had them removed so no-one can dispute the pending UK version of his book. IMO.
... either that, or 2 posters are typing the wrong letters after the dot?
It's an easy mistake to make ;)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 12:51:56 AM
Any appeal to the supreme court has to be filed within 30 days.
I predict that Duarte will be instructed to not appeal.

If something I've just read elsewhere is accurate, you may be right ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 01:00:09 AM
The former detective said Tuesday’s news was “a tremendous and important victory for the right to opinion, freedom of expression and democracy”.

He also said he was “fully aware” that the victory was only possible thanks to the support he has received, “from Portuguese citizens and other nationalities but principally from British subjects, including British police colleagues” - all of whom he thanks “from the bottom of my heart”.

- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99#sthash.VmcpRljZ.0T9OLF3h.dpuf
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 01:02:19 AM
The former detective said Tuesday’s news was “a tremendous and important victory for the right to opinion, freedom of expression and democracy”.

He also said he was “fully aware” that the victory was only possible thanks to the support he has received, “from Portuguese citizens and other nationalities but principally from British subjects, including British police colleagues” - all of whom he thanks “from the bottom of my heart”.

- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99#sthash.VmcpRljZ.0T9OLF3h.dpuf

I'm sure retired ex-police officer Peter Mac was delighted ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 01:02:40 AM
Indeed, McCann lawyers tried to remove this judge (Catarina Manso), altogether. A legal source has calculated that the shenanigans “cost some two months of time, which explains why this decision took so long”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99#sthash.VmcpRljZ.0T9OLF3h.dpuf
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 01:03:50 AM
... either that, or 2 posters are typing the wrong letters after the dot?
It's an easy mistake to make ;)

You click on a link from google search, say FP rogatory, see what you get.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 01:04:07 AM
I'm sure retired ex-police officer Peter Mac was delighted ....

why do you have to be  so negative   about anything about  GA?  most worldwide police     respect each other   
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 01:06:30 AM
Indeed, McCann lawyers tried to remove this judge (Catarina Manso), altogether. A legal source has calculated that the shenanigans “cost some two months of time, which explains why this decision took so long”. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/appeal-court-judges-reject-mccanns-%E2%80%98libel-win%E2%80%99#sthash.VmcpRljZ.0T9OLF3h.dpuf

It was like going on court (or into court in the McCanns case) in the best of 3 set tennis match with your opponent already awarded the first set.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:11:45 AM
You click on a link from google search, say FP rogatory, see what you get.

I've been getting 123 for a while, Misty.  Hmmm ... interesting.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:17:50 AM
It was like going on court (or into court in the McCanns case) in the best of 3 set tennis match with your opponent already awarded the first set.

Good analogy ... if the situation had been reversed and one set was in the bag for the McCanns before setting foot on court I think Mr Amaral's support might have been shouting foul over that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 01:29:45 AM
I've been getting 123 for a while, Misty.  Hmmm ... interesting.

Is that just today/post midnight? I know the site was OK in the early hours of yesterday morning, which was the last time I looked at something.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 01:32:12 AM
Amaral has probably had them removed so no-one can dispute the pending UK version of his book. IMO.
And do you predict that he is plotting to do the same in 2022 to the .co.uk domainname Misty?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 01:38:29 AM
And do you predict that he is plotting to do the same in 2022 to the .co.uk domainname Misty?

You've lost me now.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 01:44:04 AM
You've lost me now.
Someone forgot to renew the .com name.
No problem, because the .co.uk name directs to same content.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:48:47 AM
Someone forgot to renew the .com name.
No problem, because the .co.uk name directs to same content.

I'm having the same problem with the .co.uk address ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:53:44 AM
Is that just today/post midnight? I know the site was OK in the early hours of yesterday morning, which was the last time I looked at something.

Didn't use it at all on Wednesday ... only started trying it when I saw your conversation with Mercury about it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 01:55:54 AM
I'm having the same problem with the .co.uk address ...

Yes, so am I. Perhaps Pegasus would kindly post the new link for everyone's benefit.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 01:58:58 AM
I'm having the same problem with the .co.uk address ...
Yes it's gone. domain names available to buy. interesting
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:07:23 AM
Yes it's gone. domain names available to buy. interesting

I've got it back ... must just have been a glitch.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 02:09:11 AM
Yes it's gone. domain names available to buy. interesting

The co.uk site was updated an hour ago. A glitch?
http://who.is/website-information/mccannpjfiles.co.uk
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:10:10 AM
I've got it back ... must just have been a glitch.

Cancel that ... I've got http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm but still 123 for everything else.

Any bids for a c&p of Jez's rogatory?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 02:12:05 AM
Cancel that ... I've got http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm but still 123 for everything else.

Any bids for a c&p of Jez's rogatory?

I've still got nothing, including at your link.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:15:19 AM
I've still got nothing, including at your link.

I'm able to reach that page following the link ... but the sitemap takes me to 123.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 02:18:17 AM
It's possible for some people to see a site and others not see it.
(complicated lecture on dns caching and content caching omitted)
Wait a day and the situation will probably be clear sorted.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 02:21:42 AM
Back on topic, does anyone think that Mr Amaral will now initiate legal action?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3549374/Now-Portuguese-detective-vows-SUE-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-years-prejudice-financial-losses-wins-libel-appeal-book.html
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 02:30:44 AM
Back on topic, does anyone think that Mr Amaral will now initiate legal action?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3549374/Now-Portuguese-detective-vows-SUE-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-years-prejudice-financial-losses-wins-libel-appeal-book.html
He'd be mad to launch any action in the UK imo.
Is there a clause in Portuguese civil law which permits a defendant to be entitled to damages if an injunction has been proven to be wrongfully imposed?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:45:50 AM
Back on topic, does anyone think that Mr Amaral will now initiate legal action?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3549374/Now-Portuguese-detective-vows-SUE-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-years-prejudice-financial-losses-wins-libel-appeal-book.html

I think that could prove to be a very interesting exercise and depends very much on how much he values his financial privacy.

If claiming financial loss there will of course be very close scrutiny of all financial sources and resources held by Mr Amaral, perhaps even close relatives may have their financial affairs investigated.

It will become public how much disposable income he was able to amass over the period.  For example what he earned from television appearances ... how much his friends received in monetary gifts appealed for on his behalf over six or seven years, those accounts will be scrutinised ... etc. etc.

So could turn into a bit of a financial minefield for him ... but entirely for him to think about before deciding what punitive action to take ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 02:52:30 AM
And The Hotel in Spain allegedly owned by his wife.

Ooops, sorry.  His Ex Wife.  If ever.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:53:33 AM
He'd be mad to launch any action in the UK imo.
Is there a clause in Portuguese civil law which permits a defendant to be entitled to damages if an injunction has been proven to be wrongfully imposed?

I wonder if he might have grounds to sue the Portuguese judiciary as well for that, Misty, they did have a hand in it after all.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 03:12:33 AM
I wonder if he might have grounds to sue the Portuguese judiciary as well for that, Misty, they did have a hand in it after all.

Wouldn't judicial immunity apply?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:28:12 AM
Why last night were there denials as to what kate mccann said in her diaries ?

It seems some people are quite happy to see her serialize the lack of her sexual desires published in the that glorious tabloid of truth called the sun, %&5%£, but far less so to be reminded of her thoughts on Robert Murat which are well known.

Likewise why ask for cites on that, when both guests to the forum, as well as posters can easily find it for themselves.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: xtina on April 21, 2016, 07:47:54 AM
who do they think they are .....how much have they got left in THEIR fund ....and wonder what the remainder of that will end up being spent on

at least money donated  into G A fund.............. was well spent ..... 8@??)(  8@??)(



News UK News Madeleine Mccann
Madeleine McCann’s parents threaten legal action on people caught selling Gonzalo Amaral's book in UK


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 07:50:29 AM
Let us see if any action is taken.

I have found some posts by sil and slarti  quite rude but have not complained. I think we have been asked not to criticise mods openly on the forum and am surprised your posts have not been removed
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:55:32 AM
who do they think they are .....how much have they got left in THEIR fund ....and wonder what the remainder of that will end up being spent on

at least money donated  into G A fund.............. was well spent ..... 8@??)(  8@??)(



News UK News Madeleine Mccann
Madeleine McCann’s parents threaten legal action on people caught selling Gonzalo Amaral's book in UK


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-threaten-legal-7797363

Indeed Xtina, it took time, but the delay was worth the wait.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:56:08 AM
I have found some posts by sil and slarti  quite rude but have not complained. I think we have been asked not to criticise mods openly on the forum and am surprised your posts have not been removed

You have openly criticized some Mods on the forum pages and everyone is supposed to be subject to the same rules, are they not.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 07:56:52 AM
Indeed Xtina, it took time, but the delay was worth the wait.

some were not happy  though  about the result ......  but  tough
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:05:58 AM
You have openly criticized some Mods on the forum pages and everyone is supposed to be subject to the same rules, are they not.

and we have all been asked not to do it...the rule has now been made clear
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:08:44 AM
and we have all been asked not to do it...the rule has now been made clear

No one is above the rules of acceptable behaviour.

We shall see what happens.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:09:57 AM
No one is above the rules of acceptable behaviour.

We shall see what happens.

we have seen what happens...your posts criticising eleanor have been ignored by the mods present
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:11:27 AM
we have seen what happens...your posts criticising eleanor have been ignored by the mods present

This is my last word on this.

Abuse on the open forum is against forum rules.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 08:22:08 AM
The first enquiry was shelved in August 2008, with an archiving dispatch making plain there was no foundation or basis of accusation against the McCanns.

Then Amaral wrote a book saying TheMcCannsdunit.

And his right to say that appears on the brink of being upheld.

Disgraceful ....

When they overturned the interim injunction against the book the Appeal Court said;

We thus reach a point where it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, but they can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that is legitimate to be published as a literary work, as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved – and we have written above already why we understand that said interpretation does not offend the applicants’ rights.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html


edited to correct court name. G
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 21, 2016, 08:31:40 AM
When they overturned the interim injunction against the book the Supreme Court said;

We thus reach a point where it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, but they can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that is legitimate to be published as a literary work, as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved – and we have written above already why we understand that said interpretation does not offend the applicants’ rights.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html

This was the decision of the Tribunal da Relação not the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 08:52:43 AM
/
This was the decision of the Tribunal da Relação not the Supreme Court.
/
Sorry, I looked for 'Supreme Court' and got that. I didn't realise that the injunction fight finished at the Appeal Court. I've corrected my post. The McCanns gave up and went no higher in that case then?

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:57:55 AM
i think the latest decision is a disgrace and reflects badly on portugal and the portuguese justice system...it will be interesting to see what happens next......
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:11:21 AM
i think the latest decision is a disgrace and reflects badly on portugal and the portuguese justice system...it will be interesting to see what happens next......

Having read through the judgement, I would say it was an excellent analysis of what happened and demonstrated quite amply the hypocrisy of the mccanns using the media for their own ends, and, that any chance of the mccanns appealing to the Supreme Court successfully has gone out of the window.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 09:11:53 AM

In her notes dated July 18, almost two months after Maddie's disappearance and at a time when there are starting to appear indicia against the McCanns, Kate sounds disheartened and reinforces the accusations against Murat: "I had lots of hope that there would be progress in Murat's situation. I'm sure that he is involved and I feel like killing him, but I can't".

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id166.html


Oh for gods sake,   Robert Murat was made a person of interest,   Kate McCann thought he had something to do with Madeleine's  disappearance,   this was a woman under severe stress about her missing daughter,   she wrote down what she thought in a private diary.     Can you not imagine for one moment what this woman was going through?

Afterwards of course Murat was cleared.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:15:41 AM
Oh for gods sake,   Robert Murat was made a person of interest,   Kate McCann thought he had something to do with Madeleine's  disappearance,   this was a woman under severe stress about her missing daughter,   she wrote down what she thought in a private diary.     Can you not imagine for one moment what this woman was going through?

Afterwards of course Murat was cleared.

On what basis did kate mccann dare think Murat was involved ?

That says everything about the woman who placed all her three children in needless danger.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 09:15:46 AM
Having read through the judgement, I would say it was an excellent analysis of what happened and demonstrated quite amply the hypocrisy of the mccanns using the media for their own ends, and, that any chance of the mccanns appealing to the Supreme Court successfully has gone out of the window.

It doesn't stray from the fact that Amaral started the hostility towards the McCann's,  that he was writing his book whilst still a Police Officer,  that details were leaked which shouldn't have been under Portuguese strict confidentiality law and that he lied in his book about the DNA and the fact the McCann's drugged their daughter.   We'll see.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 09:17:38 AM
On what basis did kate mccann dare think Murat was involved ?

That says everything about the woman who placed all her three children in needless danger.

The Portuguese police under Amaral's instructions made Murat an arguido,  that was enough for Kate to dare think Murat was involved,  because AMARAL did!!!!

The second part of your post has no bearing on this subject.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2016, 09:19:39 AM
i think the latest decision is a disgrace and reflects badly on portugal and the portuguese justice system...it will be interesting to see what happens next......
If the decision is in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a good decision.  If the decision is not in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a bad decision.

Anyone with a decent knowledge of the Portuguese judicial system plus access to the 16 page judgement is in a position to determine whether it is or is not in accordance with the law.  The rest of us can't.

One may like or dislike the judgement.  But to go from a position of relative ignorance of both the system and the judgement to criticising the system is folly.

To criticise the entire country of Portugal on the basis of one judgement is ... well, do I really have to spell that out?

Has the full judgement been published anywhere yet?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:22:02 AM
The Portuguese police under Amaral's instructions made Murat an arguido,  that was enough for Kate to dare think Murat was involved,  because AMARAL did!!!!

The second part of your post has no bearing on this subject.

On whose statements did the PJ suspect Murat ?

As to the second, THAT IS WHERE THE CASE STARTED, so every relevance.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 09:25:43 AM
On whose statements did the PJ suspect Murat ?

As to the second, THAT IS WHERE THE CASE STARTED, so every relevance.

Wasn't it one of the journalists?     Someone said he was taking a lot of interest in the case and trying to see how the police were proceeding?

The case started with the abductor.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:27:22 AM
Wasn't it one of the journalists?     Someone said he was taking a lot of interest in the case and trying to see how the police were proceeding?

The case started with the abductor.

Which journalist Lace, and let's not forget Tanner.

As to abductor, in your dreams.

The case started when the mccanns left their children ALONE.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 09:29:08 AM
Which journalist Lace, and let's not forget Tanner.

As to abductor, in your dreams.

The case started when the mccanns left their children ALONE.

This journalist Stephen  -   He appears to have been first brought to the attention of Portugese investigators by Lori Campbell, a Sunday Mirror journalist, for no other reason than he appeared ‘suspicious’ and his behaviour reminded her of Ian Huntley.
- See more at: http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/robert-murat/#sthash.Lgptuk0B.dpuf
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2016, 09:31:13 AM
robert murat she wanted to kill him


You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
If the decision is in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a good decision.  If the decision is not in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a bad decision.

Anyone with a decent knowledge of the Portuguese judicial system plus access to the 16 page judgement is in a position to determine whether it is or is not in accordance with the law.  The rest of us can't.

One may like or dislike the judgement.  But to go from a position of relative ignorance of both the system and the judgement to criticising the system is folly.

To criticise the entire country of Portugal on the basis of one judgement is ... well, do I really have to spell that out?

Has the full judgement been published anywhere yet?


Do you think the McCanns have any prospect of a fair hearing in a Portuguese court system which apparently cannot bring itself to even pay lip service to Article 6 (2) of the ECHR?

Goncalo Amaral's was judged to have violated the McCann's right to the presumption of innocence ... that has been overturned. 

Looking at the wider implications, I think that unilateral precedent affects many more than the McCanns.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:38:58 AM
This journalist Stephen  -   He appears to have been first brought to the attention of Portugese investigators by Lori Campbell, a Sunday Mirror journalist, for no other reason than he appeared ‘suspicious’ and his behaviour reminded her of Ian Huntley.
- See more at: http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/robert-murat/#sthash.Lgptuk0B.dpuf

Oh I know full well by Lori Campbell. So when did she see Huntley then ?

So would you also like to tell me what involvement she had with the mccanns as well ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 09:40:54 AM

You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.

More evidence of the "professionalism" of the Portuguese police as well as the eagerness to cherry pick anything in the attempt to excoriate particularly Kate McCann.  F****** W****** being another example.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:41:30 AM

You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.

You do realize benice, that not everyone believes that everything kate mccann 'wrote' in the book is true.


After all, it was written after the event.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2016, 09:41:49 AM
wasnt the diary part of the investigation and in the files?

I don't think so mercury.  IIRC a PT Judge ruled that it should not have been taken by the PJ and should be  returned to Kate and any copies destroyed.    It would seem elements of the PJ ignored that direction from a Judge  - and once again with no repercussions.

From memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary.




Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:43:24 AM
More evidence of the "professionalism" of the Portuguese police as well as the eagerness to cherry pick anything in the attempt to excoriate particularly Kate McCann.  F****** W****** being another example.

Well that phrase really did personify kate mccanns eloquence, and her inability to accept responsibility for her own actions.

Also, IMO of course it reflects narcissism , in her personality.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2016, 09:53:14 AM
I think that could prove to be a very interesting exercise and depends very much on how much he values his financial privacy.

If claiming financial loss there will of course be very close scrutiny of all financial sources and resources held by Mr Amaral, perhaps even close relatives may have their financial affairs investigated.

It will become public how much disposable income he was able to amass over the period.  For example what he earned from television appearances ... how much his friends received in monetary gifts appealed for on his behalf over six or seven years, those accounts will be scrutinised ... etc. etc.

So could turn into a bit of a financial minefield for him ... but entirely for him to think about before deciding what punitive action to take ...

If he is going to claim loss of income due to the actions of others -  then how does that affect those people who have translated and distributed his book over the internet giving free access to it to millions of people? 

How can anyone differentiate between those who didn't buy the book because it was withdrawn from sale - from those who didn't buy the book because they could read it for free on the internet?


 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 09:56:10 AM
On whose statements did the PJ suspect Murat ?

As to the second, THAT IS WHERE THE CASE STARTED, so every relevance.

Some lady journalist on the Sun and Clarence Mitchell likening RM's behaviour to that of Ian Huntley as I recall.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 10:03:20 AM

Do you think the McCanns have any prospect of a fair hearing in a Portuguese court system which apparently cannot bring itself to even pay lip service to Article 6 (2) of the ECHR?

Goncalo Amaral's was judged to have violated the McCann's right to the presumption of innocence ... that has been overturned. 

Looking at the wider implications, I think that unilateral precedent affects many more than the McCanns.

You have said this before and I posed a question then which you did not answer so lets try again.
Do you have evidence to suggest that this has not been a fair trial to date?

"Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights is a provision of the European Convention which protects the right to a fair trial. In criminal law cases and cases to determine civil rights it protects the right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal within reasonable time, the presumption of innocence, and other minimum rights for those charged in a criminal case (adequate time and facilities to prepare their defence, access to legal representation, right to examine witnesses against them or have them examined, right to the free assistance of an interpreter)".

As we are perpetually reminded by our resident barrack room solicitors this is a civil case not a criminal case.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: faithlilly on April 21, 2016, 10:03:55 AM
An update from the OFM website ( not yet on their Facebook page )

Updates

19 April, 2016 - Statement from Gerry and Kate Regarding Libel Case

We are disappointed with today’s ruling from the Portuguese Appellate Court. As we have said in the past, this action has never been about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine.

We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Gerry and Kate




Was not about the money !!! Have they no shame ?

'
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.'  Does this make any sense ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 10:05:14 AM
i think the latest decision is a disgrace and reflects badly on portugal and the portuguese justice system...it will be interesting to see what happens next......

The original ruling rested solely on whether Amaral was entitled to the same freedom of speech as any other Portuguese citizen. The judge said he was not, because his freedom of speech was restricted due to his former position as a police officer, and his present position as a retired police officer.

The Appeal Court disagreed with her opinion and upheld his right to freedom of speech.

I see the decision as a triumph for freedom of speech and a defeat for those who seek to restrict it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 10:08:25 AM
An update from the OFM website ( not yet on their Facebook page )

Updates

19 April, 2016 - Statement from Gerry and Kate Regarding Libel Case

We are disappointed with today’s ruling from the Portuguese Appellate Court. As we have said in the past, this action has never been about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine.

We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Gerry and Kate




Was not about the money !!! Have they no shame ?

'
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.'  Does this make any sense ?

Remind us what Judge Emilia said about that!
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 10:11:01 AM
It doesn't stray from the fact that Amaral started the hostility towards the McCann's,  that he was writing his book whilst still a Police Officer,  that details were leaked which shouldn't have been under Portuguese strict confidentiality law and that he lied in his book about the DNA and the fact the McCann's drugged their daughter.   We'll see.

All the bolded bits are either your opinion, not facts, or his opinion which the Appeal Court said he was allowed to express. They were not interested in when he wrote the book, just when it became available which was after the official files were released.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 10:16:51 AM
The original ruling rested solely on whether Amaral was entitled to the same freedom of speech as any other Portuguese citizen. The judge said he was not, because his freedom of speech was restricted due to his former position as a police officer, and his present position as a retired police officer.

The Appeal Court disagreed with her opinion and upheld his right to freedom of speech.

I see the decision as a triumph for freedom of speech and a defeat for those who seek to restrict it.

so if I call someone on here liar...without evidence to support it...you will back me 100%.
no you won't...because you only believe in freedom of speech when it suits you...more freedom of hypocrisy
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 10:18:18 AM
All the bolded bits are either your opinion, not facts, or his opinion which the Appeal Court said he was allowed to express. They were not interested in when he wrote the book, just when it became available which was after the official files were released.

Lace's post (to which you reply) is entirely factual.

If Amaral had kept his accusations confined to the process where he was fully entitled to make them, there would have been no action by the McCanns; indeed, no basis for them to bring an action.

And if Amaral had respected the rules of confidentiality imposed upon him by his position, (as Rebelo, largely, managed to do) the same.

Amaral abused his position, breached laws of secrecy to which he was subject and accused without foundation.

Those are the facts ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 10:39:41 AM
Didn't want a lawyer?

I don't suppose Murat's lawyer, Fransciso Pagarete, will sue you.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 10:41:41 AM
...

I am part of no group acting on anyone's behalf.

My views are my own.

How about you ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 10:41:57 AM
Well that phrase really did personify kate mccanns eloquence, and her inability to accept responsibility for her own actions.

Also, IMO of course it reflects narcissism , in her personality.


That is one interpretation of why she was inaudibly saying F****** W***** there are of course very many others given the circumstances of the occasion.

Speaking for myself ... I think she was remarkably restrained and not the least narcissistic, merely distraught at the realisation no one was interested in looking for her missing child.

Goncalo Amaral's theory of death, which the Portuguese court opined didn't harm the search for Madeleine seemed to be the only ball game in town, and her mother realised that she was now the focus of the inquiry and not her missing child.  In the circumstances I think her restraint admirable.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 10:46:11 AM
... i  dont think  people  should become so emotionally  involved it isnt  healthy

It most certainly isn't, but the McCann case seems to have this effect on people, judging by some of the vitriolic posts that apparently appear on Twitter & Facebook.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 10:47:41 AM

That is one interpretation of why she was inaudibly saying F****** W***** there are of course very many others given the circumstances of the occasion.

Speaking for myself ... I think she was remarkably restrained and not the least narcissistic, merely distraught at the realisation no one was interested in looking for her missing child.

Goncalo Amaral's theory of death, which the Portuguese court opined didn't harm the search for Madeleine seemed to be the only ball game in town, and her mother realised that she was now the focus of the inquiry and not her missing child.  In the circumstances I think her restraint admirable.

You have your view, I have mine.

Restraint ?

She and her husband are responsible for this case .

...........and there lies the nutshell.

They are always blaming others, for their own failings.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 10:48:04 AM
Didn't want a lawyer?

I don't suppose Murat's lawyer, Fransciso Pagarete, will sue you.

Maybe it is required however........

"He (RM) is the first suspect who will be declared arguido. As such, he benefits from certain rights, one of them being to remain silent. But he does not assert that right and responds to all questions put to him. Despite obvious nervousness, his statements are clear and precise." TOTL

"We believe that the main damage was caused by the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 10:48:44 AM
Some lady journalist on the Sun and Clarence Mitchell likening RM's behaviour to that of Ian Huntley as I recall.

This morning, somewhere in one of the threads PF has posted a chunk of Goncalo Amaral's freedom of expression in which Mr Amaral appears to be claiming kudos for it.  Who needs a mere journalist?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2016, 10:49:13 AM

Do you think the McCanns have any prospect of a fair hearing in a Portuguese court system which apparently cannot bring itself to even pay lip service to Article 6 (2) of the ECHR?

Goncalo Amaral's was judged to have violated the McCann's right to the presumption of innocence ... that has been overturned. 

Looking at the wider implications, I think that unilateral precedent affects many more than the McCanns.
I have no expertise in the relevant parts of Portuguese law.  I have no expertise in Article 6 (2) of the ECHR. And I have not seen the full judgement.

So I am not in a position to state whether the relevant sections are in accordance with Art 6 (2) or not.

If the McCanns' lawyer thinks Art 6 (2) has been breached, she does not appear to be saying so in public.

Personally, I will simply wait to see what develops.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 10:51:04 AM
I have no expertise in the relevant parts of Portuguese law.  I have no expertise in Article 6 (2) of the ECHR. And I have not seen the full judgement.

So I am not in a position to state whether the relevant sections are in accordance with Art 6 (2) or not.

If the McCanns' lawyer thinks Art 6 (2) has been breached, she does not appear to be saying so in public.

Personally, I will simply wait to see what develops.

A good decision that I, too, shall be following.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 10:51:35 AM
You have your view, I have mine.

Restraint ?

She and her husband are responsible for this case .

...........and there lies the nutshell.

They are always blaming others, for their own failings.

they never did take personal responsibility for  whatever did happen   on that holiday did they  ie they never  told parents dont leave children alone etc
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 10:57:23 AM
...

As far as I can discover the whole Calpol question originated from an interview with Kate's father, which was 'embroidered' by the Sun.  Carana wrote:

The Sun then ran with it and added “to help her sleep” in the quote:

The Sun (7 Sept)
Mr Healy said: “I know Kate and Gerry would not harm Madeleine at all.

“Kate may have used Calpol (to help her sleep),

This, of course, got slightly more mangled in the Portuguese papers, in which the Grandad was alleged to have said Kate must have given Calpol [to help her to sleep]… A copy even ended up in the police files:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg

https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/calpol-and-nurofen-on-the-mccann-holiday/



Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2016, 10:58:36 AM
Critique (of this judgement, not the whole Portuguese judiciary, and certainly not the country of Portugal) is what is being expressed here.

Portugal is a democracy, worthy of the name, and with a judiciary (at its best) highly commendable (as exemplified by the judgement Amaral appealed). 

But this latest judgement (that upholds the right to accuse and traduce without let, hindrance or sanction) is simply fascist.

I'm (genuinely) sorry if that offends you, SIL, because I have long respected you as a poster, I think you were an excellent choice as appointment of moderator and I believe (in your moderating) you have richly rewarded the faith placed in you.

I also understand a sense of nationalism (or pride in one's nation) to which, I think, we are all prone.

I admit (to my shame) that it took me far longer than it should have to admit the truth of the tragic death of Brazilian Jean Paul de Menezes, a Brazilian national, going about his lawful business as an electrician, (mis)identified by security forces as some terrorist and shot, dead, on a tube train at Stockwell Station.

That's nationalism!

It's not a pleasant trait.

It is one we can all be prone to, that leaves us with blind-spots where failings or short-comings on the part of the State we are a part of and to which feel some allegiance comes to light.

It seems that Amaral's right to abuse his former position as coordinator of an investigation he bungled to accuse and traduce a couple wrongly accused by that investigation is about to be upheld by the Portuguese courts.
 
That is a disgrace.

It is also fascist.
I have no issue with people querying the judgment.

Amaral's ability to publish, taking into account his prior position as head of the investigation, seems very odd to me.  But if he has broken any laws or regulations, I would expect to see someone other than the McCanns bringing him to task on this.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 11:02:33 AM
As far as I can discover the whole Calpol question originated from an interview with Kate's father, which was 'embroidered' by the Sun.  Carana wrote:

The Sun then ran with it and added “to help her sleep” in the quote:

The Sun (7 Sept)
Mr Healy said: “I know Kate and Gerry would not harm Madeleine at all.

“Kate may have used Calpol (to help her sleep),

This, of course, got slightly more mangled in the Portuguese papers, in which the Grandad was alleged to have said Kate must have given Calpol [to help her to sleep]… A copy even ended up in the police files:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2585.jpg

https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/03/calpol-and-nurofen-on-the-mccann-holiday/

Nothing was embroidered by The Sun.

Almeida read what The Sun wrote and recorded in his interim report that 'the child's grandfather' said Kate and Gerry used 'sedatives' with the children.

Read his report.

It's all in there.

Amaral picked up on that in his book.

And Morais wrote a vicious blog about 'calpol night'.

Incidentally, you have linked to a sound blog, written by Bren.

Read it carefully.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 11:02:43 AM
This morning, somewhere in one of the threads PF has posted a chunk of Goncalo Amaral's freedom of expression in which Mr Amaral appears to be claiming kudos for it.  Who needs a mere journalist?

Do you think a policeman isn't going to reconstruct Jane Tanner's statement of the route the man took?

You need a lot more than what one journalist thinks to make somebody a formal suspect.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 11:05:31 AM
I have no issue with people querying the judgment.

Amaral's ability to publish, taking into account his prior position as head of the investigation, seems very odd to me.  But if he has broken any laws or regulations, I would expect to see someone other than the McCanns bringing him to task on this.

Have you read the following ?

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/lisbon-appeals-court-ruling.html
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 11:11:41 AM
I think the whole judgement is odd. This case is not closed yet. What the court has done is given carte blanche to a police officer to make public statements abut an unsolved case. If the McCanns were ever arrested and tried in portugal how would this affect their chance of a  fair trial...tin pot justice...imo...but that is what we have come to expect from portugal...again imo
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 11:19:38 AM
I think the whole judgement is odd. This case is not closed yet. What the court has done is given carte blanche to a police officer to make public statements abut an unsolved case. If the McCanns were ever arrested and tried in portugal how would this affect their chance of a  fair trial...tin pot justice...imo...but that is what we have come to expect from portugal...again imo

If this were to happen, it would be a criminal case, possibly without a jury, so any civil action and findings should have little influence on the decisions made by the judges involved.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2016, 11:22:14 AM
they never did take personal responsibility for  whatever did happen   on that holiday did they  ie they never  told parents dont leave children alone etc

Are you being serious?   What would you have said if they had said to the public  'don't leave your children alone'.  Would you and all other sceptics be praising them for doing that -  or pointing out that you didn't need that advice in the first place and what a damn cheek they had for suggesting that you did?   Do tell.

After knowing what happened to Madeleine, any parent with reasonable intelligence could work it out for themselves that leaving children alone on holiday posed dangers which they may not have previously considered.   

 Prior to Madeleine's case  -the last child to be abducted abroad was Ben Needham 16 years before.   I doubt if that was uppermost in the McCanns or any other  holidaymakers minds when they were deciding what childcare arrangements they were going to make whilst they went for their evening meal. 

Those parents who ignored what happened to Madeleine and continued to sign on to listening services and use baby alarms whilst on holiday are far more deserving of criticism that the McCanns ever were IMO.


Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
Do you think a policeman isn't going to reconstruct Jane Tanner's statement of the route the man took?

You need a lot more than what one journalist thinks to make somebody a formal suspect.

I totally agree ... but that was not the context of the discussion regarding whose nose first started twitching in Robert Murat's direction and how awful Kate McCann was reported to have been about him in a confidential document the PJ were barred from reading ~ let alone leak to the press.

As you posted earlier ...

...
I am about to make enquiries of the police officer on duty when the individual comes back from his walk and greets him as he passes.

- You know that man?

- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

...

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat.

...

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. ...

...

If it's him that's holding Madeleine, we must monitor all his contacts and places he has access to.



I've absolutely no problem whatsoever with a police officer doing his job.  My problem is if he's not very good at it and once something checks out move on to the next logical step, and stop clutching at straws.

My other problem is that in Portugal he is free to use his freedom of expression to organise a kangaroo court with innocent people as his target.

If he had only labelled his book as the work of fiction it obviously is everyone could have been saved a great deal of trouble. 

One person's freedom of expression supersedes another's right to a good name (I think that appears in the Portuguese constitution ~ the good name bit) and not to be traduced and libelled.
I can't quite make sense of that ... have the appeal judges just rewritten the constitution?

{Brietta - I have shortened the extract of TOTL, but I think the meaning of your post has been preserved.  SIL}
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 11:41:08 AM
I have no expertise in the relevant parts of Portuguese law.  I have no expertise in Article 6 (2) of the ECHR. And I have not seen the full judgement.

So I am not in a position to state whether the relevant sections are in accordance with Art 6 (2) or not.

If the McCanns' lawyer thinks Art 6 (2) has been breached, she does not appear to be saying so in public.

Personally, I will simply wait to see what develops.

I don't think there is anything else to do but await developments.

I do not have the exact wording of the original damages award ... however it was found that Goncalo Amaral had denied the McCanns the presumption of innocence ... the appeal court judges did not uphold that.

I await with interest more learned opinions than mine on that ruling.  As a layman ... that is mine.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 21, 2016, 11:51:01 AM
MOD NOTE  After an improvement, things seem to have gotten worse.

1.  Please do not post large slabs of TOTL.  The chapters in that book are short, and long excerpts could lead to copyright issues, and possibly other issues if the latest decision were to be challenged and overturned.

2.  People in real life, on here as members, and elsewhere as it so happens, have the right to be treated with respect, whether they hold the same view as you or not.

I have just deleted a whole swathe of posts that constitute personal attacks on the McCanns, Mr Amaral, Clarence Mitchell, and quite a number of posters on this forum.

You can express your opinion freely without resorting to such attacks.  In the event that you consider a post to break the rules, please flag it but do not otherwise respond to it.  Or please just leave it and give me some time to catch up on the backlog of posts, and I will delete or modify as necessary.

Kindly settle down a bit.  I'm getting to the stage where it might be easier to find out how to award naughty points.

If you stick within the forum rules, your post stays as you posted it.  If you breach the rules, it doesn't.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 12:15:25 PM
(snip) This case is not closed yet (snip)
if Duarte does not file a supreme court appeal within 30 days, this particular private legal case will be closed.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 12:17:59 PM
if Duarte does not file a supreme court appeal within 30 days, this particular private legal case will be closed.

I was referring to the investigation into maddie's disappearance. If amaral really thinks the parents are involved what has his book done to the  chances of them getting a fair trial.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 12:19:05 PM
MOD NOTE  After an improvement, things seem to have gotten worse.

1.  Please do not post large slabs of TOTL.  The chapters in that book are short, and long excerpts could lead to copyright issues, and possibly other issues if the latest decision were to be challenged and overturned.

2.  People in real life, on here as members, and elsewhere as it so happens, have the right to be treated with respect, whether they hold the same view as you or not.

I have just deleted a whole swathe of posts that constitute personal attacks on the McCanns, Mr Amaral, Clarence Mitchell, and quite a number of posters on this forum.

You can express your opinion freely without resorting to such attacks.  In the event that you consider a post to break the rules, please flag it but do not otherwise respond to it.  Or please just leave it and give me some time to catch up on the backlog of posts, and I will delete or modify as necessary.

Kindly settle down a bit.  I'm getting to the stage where it might be easier to find out how to award naughty points.

If you stick within the forum rules, your post stays as you posted it.  If you breach the rules, it doesn't.

Thanks.

8(0(*  A timely warning indeed, Shining  ... Mr Amaral will be anxious to exploit his opportunity and won't take kindly to anything which might affect that ... which includes free distribution his instrument of freedom of expression.

McCanns threaten “anyone selling Amaral’s book in UK” with legal action

Negotiating with his publishers today, the former detective confirmed to the Resident that “what the McCanns are doing is illegal. I am in talks with my publishers for a book in the English language, as there is as yet no publisher in the UK, the USA, Australia, New Zealand - not even Amazon - that is selling it.

"The McCanns will learn to respect the right to opinion and freedom of expression”, he added - stressing that “any version” of Truth of the Lie in English that can be found on the Internet is also illegal, as neither he nor Guerra e Paz publishers have given their authorisation to translations.

http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-threaten-%E2%80%9Canyone-selling-amaral%E2%80%99s-book-in-uk%E2%80%9D-with-legal-action#sthash.VtGeRWhF.SSnyhqxi.dpuf
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 12:22:02 PM
I should think that publishing is easy in this digital age, it's getting the book distributed and sold that is the problem.

I suppose on-line purchase from outside of UK, followed by download in one of a number of formats would be legal, as would placing adverts for the book in UK papers.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 12:35:22 PM
I was referring to the investigation into maddie's disappearance. If amaral really thinks the parents are involved what has his book done to the  chances of them getting a fair trial.

That could in part be ameliorated by Portugal allowing any case to be tried in England and Wales, which would be permissible.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 12:40:12 PM
That could in part be ameliorated by Portugal allowing any case to be tried in England and Wales, which would be permissible.

But it won't be.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Benice on April 21, 2016, 12:41:59 PM
8(0(*  A timely warning indeed, Shining  ... Mr Amaral will be anxious to exploit his opportunity and won't take kindly to anything which might affect that ... which includes free distribution his instrument of freedom of expression.

McCanns threaten “anyone selling Amaral’s book in UK” with legal action

Negotiating with his publishers today, the former detective confirmed to the Resident that “what the McCanns are doing is illegal. I am in talks with my publishers for a book in the English language, as there is as yet no publisher in the UK, the USA, Australia, New Zealand - not even Amazon - that is selling it.

"The McCanns will learn to respect the right to opinion and freedom of expression”, he added - stressing that “any version” of Truth of the Lie in English that can be found on the Internet is also illegal, as neither he nor Guerra e Paz publishers have given their authorisation to translations.

http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-threaten-%E2%80%9Canyone-selling-amaral%E2%80%99s-book-in-uk%E2%80%9D-with-legal-action#sthash.VtGeRWhF.SSnyhqxi.dpuf

So where does that leave his supporters who have spent years giving out the link to his 'illegally'  translated book  - encouraging and enabling potentially millions of people on the internet to 'illegally' read it for free and so depriving him of  income from it?

He's obviously not at all happy with those actions by his own supporters.




Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 12:48:48 PM
So where does that leave his supporters who have spent years giving out the link to his 'illegally'  translated book  - encouraging and enabling potentially millions of people on the internet to 'illegally' read it for free and so depriving him of  income from it?

He's obviously not at all happy with those actions by his own supporters.

Needs must when the devil drives (what ever that means).
Now he can enforce his intellectual property rights he would be daft not to. He could of course do it as a polite request to his supporters and then go horse foot and guns for the others. I know what I would do. Best if some "supporters" catch the last train to the coast I would think.......................
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 12:49:13 PM
So where does that leave his supporters who have spent years giving out the link to his 'illegally'  translated book  - encouraging and enabling potentially millions of people on the internet to 'illegally' read it for free and so depriving him of  income from it?

He's obviously not at all happy with those actions by his own supporters.

How sad.  Too bad.  Tis done now.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 12:53:05 PM
How sad.  Too bad.  Tis done now.

It would be ironic if he had to sue all those generous donators to the GFM appeal who quoted from his book in the comments section.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 01:01:33 PM
so if I call someone on here liar...without evidence to support it...you will back me 100%.
no you won't...because you only believe in freedom of speech when it suits you...more freedom of hypocrisy

It doesn't matter how you see the judgement or what you think Amaral did wrong. The opinions that count are those of the Appeal Court judges and they overturned the judgement of the lower court judge.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:08:16 PM
It would be ironic if he had to sue all those generous donators to the GFM appeal who quoted from his book in the comments section.

I'm not too sure how much profit remains to be made from it unless he intends to amend it to bring it into line with some semblance of reality ... shouldn't be too much of a problem for him.
Apparently last time round he seemed to be able to write it and have it printed in the couple of days between the archiving of Madeleine's case and the book signing. 
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 01:16:23 PM
It would be ironic if he had to sue all those generous donators to the GFM appeal who quoted from his book in the comments section.

That might be fun.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 01:17:30 PM
But it won't be.

Why ever not. It would be a smooth move. The Brits will then have to pay all the court costs and the Brits cannot scream foul at the result. Job's a goodun
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 01:18:49 PM
It would be ironic if he had to sue all those generous donators to the GFM appeal who quoted from his book in the comments section.

You are so funny.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 01:24:14 PM
Are you being serious?   What would you have said if they had said to the public  'don't leave your children alone'.  Would you and all other sceptics be praising them for doing that -  or pointing out that you didn't need that advice in the first place and what a damn cheek they had for suggesting that you did?   Do tell.

After knowing what happened to Madeleine, any parent with reasonable intelligence could work it out for themselves that leaving children alone on holiday posed dangers which they may not have previously considered.   

 Prior to Madeleine's case  -the last child to be abducted abroad was Ben Needham 16 years before.   I doubt if that was uppermost in the McCanns or any other  holidaymakers minds when they were deciding what childcare arrangements they were going to make whilst they went for their evening meal. 

Those parents who ignored what happened to Madeleine and continued to sign on to listening services and use baby alarms whilst on holiday are far more deserving of criticism that the McCanns ever were IMO.

Children under 5 should never be left home alone.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 01:30:29 PM
Why ever not. It would be a smooth move. The Brits will then have to pay all the court costs and the Brits cannot scream foul at the result. Job's a goodun

No Evidence.  Let alone Proof.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 01:31:56 PM
Children under 5 should never be left home alone.

I don't think you will find many who disagree with you ~ particularly not the McCanns.  But on the occasion of this triumph for the freedom of expression in Portugal it is worth bearing in mind that a little girl remains a missing person and her parents are still looking for her.

As already posted ...

**snip
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

Gerry and Kate
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 01:36:22 PM
Interesting Light Bedtime Reading

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Appeal_19_04_2016.htm
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 01:56:29 PM
Lace's post (to which you reply) is entirely factual.

If Amaral had kept his accusations confined to the process where he was fully entitled to make them, there would have been no action by the McCanns; indeed, no basis for them to bring an action.

And if Amaral had respected the rules of confidentiality imposed upon him by his position, (as Rebelo, largely, managed to do) the same.

Amaral abused his position, breached laws of secrecy to which he was subject and accused without foundation.

Those are the facts ...

I have revisited Lace's post and highlighted why her 'facts' need supporting.

In reply to your 'facts'; the Appeal Court did not take the view that a retired police officer was bound by the laws of secrecy. Until another judgement is made that is no longer a fact. They thought there was no problem with him having a theory based on the facts of the investigation, or with him publishing his theory in his book. 

Quote from: Lace on Today at 09:15:46 AM
It doesn't stray from the fact that Amaral started the hostility towards the McCann's, [Cite that he started it?] that he was writing his book whilst still a Police Officer, [Retired] that details were leaked which shouldn't have been under Portuguese strict confidentiality law [Cite that it was him wot did it]and that he lied in his book about the DNA and the fact the McCann's drugged their daughter. [Part of his theory?]  We'll see.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2016, 02:04:16 PM

Stating incorrect DNA results cannot be deemed to be a Thesis.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 02:17:36 PM
It would be ironic if he had to sue all those generous donators to the GFM appeal who quoted from his book in the comments section.

He won't be doing that dear.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 02:24:16 PM
An update from the OFM website ( not yet on their Facebook page )

Updates

19 April, 2016 - Statement from Gerry and Kate Regarding Libel Case

We are disappointed with today’s ruling from the Portuguese Appellate Court. As we have said in the past, this action has never been about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine.

We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Gerry and Kate




Was not about the money !!! Have they no shame ?

'
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.'  Does this make any sense ?

Their claims for recompense for the effects of the libels on their other children and for the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine were rejected by the lower court.

Did they ever read and understand that judgement? Perhaps they should because they seem to have either misunderstood it or been misinformed as to why they were awarded damages.

Spending yet more money on an appeal is surely inadvisable unless they understand why they won in the first court and why the judgement was overturned on appeal.

Unless they fully understand their position it may well end up being about money when they are asked to pay what they could end up owing for the costs relating to the overturned injunction, the costs of the two hearings so far, and, possibly, the costs of a Supreme Court appeal if they lose again.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 02:25:55 PM
Interesting Light Bedtime Reading

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Appeal_19_04_2016.htm

Thank you Alice ... I will save it for later.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 02:28:48 PM
He won't be doing that dear.

And he won't be suing Pamalam either?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 02:32:11 PM
And he won't be suing Pamalam either?

Why don't you e-mail him ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 02:48:58 PM
Their claims for recompense for the effects of the libels on their other children and for the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine were rejected by the lower court.

Did they ever read and understand that judgement? Perhaps they should because they seem to have either misunderstood it or been misinformed as to why they were awarded damages.

Spending yet more money on an appeal is surely inadvisable unless they understand why they won in the first court and why the judgement was overturned on appeal.

Unless they fully understand their position it may well end up being about money when they are asked to pay what they could end up owing for the costs relating to the overturned injunction, the costs of the two hearings so far, and, possibly, the costs of a Supreme Court appeal if they lose again.

Judging by the comment on the website did they understand the most recent judgment?
Reference is made to libel but no libel has been proved either in the first trial or this one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2016, 02:55:57 PM
I have revisited Lace's post and highlighted why her 'facts' need supporting.

In reply to your 'facts'; the Appeal Court did not take the view that a retired police officer was bound by the laws of secrecy. Until another judgement is made that is no longer a fact. They thought there was no problem with him having a theory based on the facts of the investigation, or with him publishing his theory in his book. 

Quote from: Lace on Today at 09:15:46 AM
It doesn't stray from the fact that Amaral started the hostility towards the McCann's, [Cite that he started it?] that he was writing his book whilst still a Police Officer, [Retired] that details were leaked which shouldn't have been under Portuguese strict confidentiality law [Cite that it was him wot did it]and that he lied in his book about the DNA and the fact the McCann's drugged their daughter. [Part of his theory?]  We'll see.


Police sources tell tabloid reporters that the DNA tests are a "100% match" and the media swiftly turn on the McCanns.

There,  how about that?    now to whom were the DNA results sent?

As for him being retired when he wrote his book,  when did the book go in to be published?   There was a bit about this in the court case and the Judge said he broke the secrecy laws.

He states his theory as the truth though doesn't he?    what does 'The TRUTH of the Lie'   mean?    At the start of his video he says,   'Let me tell you what really happened'.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 03:20:00 PM
Judging by the comment on the website did they understand the most recent judgment?
Reference is made to libel but no libel has been proved either in the first trial or this one.

they just can't stop telling lies can they..it's almost pathological
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 05:31:34 PM
I've read the full judgement.

I don't think there's too much doubt that Dr Amaral should keep the cork firmly in place inside the bottle.

This judgement glosses over/ignores/disregards that Amaral breached judicial secrecy in writing his book, and thus did not (contrary to the assertion of this judgement) create the 'free market place of exchange of ideas' to which this judgement (essentially) appeals: whereby Amaral and Kate and Gerry could exchange views, insults, opinions (and all the rest) without fear of legal reprisal (on either side).

Because it is clearly and unequivocally established that Amaral did breach judicial secrecy, that state (of virtual annulment of the usual rules of libel) simply doesn't apply.

I predict that Isabel will drive a coach-and-horses through this judgement.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 05:42:58 PM

Police sources tell tabloid reporters that the DNA tests are a "100% match" and the media swiftly turn on the McCanns.

There,  how about that?    now to whom were the DNA results sent?

As for him being retired when he wrote his book,  when did the book go in to be published?   There was a bit about this in the court case and the Judge said he broke the secrecy laws.

He states his theory as the truth though doesn't he?    what does 'The TRUTH of the Lie'   mean?    At the start of his video he says,   'Let me tell you what really happened'.

So are you saying that when someone said 'the police source' they actually meant 'Amaral'? How clever of you. If you're able to work that out, perhaps you tell me who 'a source close to the McCanns' is?

Whatever the judge of the lower court said has been overturned by the judges of the Appeal Court. Amaral did not break any secrecy laws.

I think the lie was the abduction story, the truth was what really happened to Madeleine.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 05:44:48 PM
I've read the full judgement.

I don't think there's too much doubt that Dr Amaral should keep the cork firmly in place inside the bottle.

This judgement glosses over/ignores/disregards that Amaral breached judicial secrecy in writing his book, and thus did not (contrary to the assertion of this judgement) create the 'free market place of exchange of ideas' to which this judgement (essentially) appeals: whereby Amaral and Kate and Gerry could exchange views, insults, opinions (and all the rest) without fear of legal reprisal (on either side).

Because it is clearly and unequivocally established that Amaral did breach judicial secrecy, that state (of virtual annulment of the usual rules of libel) simply doesn't apply.

I predict that Isabel will drive a coach-and-horses through this judgement.


There are several points that I find odd in this ruling.

One to start with:

The point concerning how the publishers could have possibly turned around a raw manuscript and churned it into a book, complete with photoshopped line drawings of the original file photos and had the book laid out and printed and on sale within days without have broken judicial secrecy doesn't appear to have been addressed.


Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 05:54:07 PM

There are several points that I find odd in this ruling.

One to start with:

The point concerning how the publishers could have possibly turned around a raw manuscript and churned it into a book, complete with photoshopped line drawings of the original file photos and had the book laid out and printed and on sale within days without have broken judicial secrecy doesn't appear to have been addressed.

Nothing to concern us, really, as it's all in the hands of lawyers. 

We'll know within a month if an appeal has been submitted. If not, it will be of no importance.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 06:03:38 PM

There are several points that I find odd in this ruling.

One to start with:

The point concerning how the publishers could have possibly turned around a raw manuscript and churned it into a book, complete with photoshopped line drawings of the original file photos and had the book laid out and printed and on sale within days without have broken judicial secrecy doesn't appear to have been addressed.

Was he being charged with having broken judicial secrecy ? if not it has no relevance.
The issue was: were the files released before Sr Amarals book was on sale
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 06:08:47 PM
Was he being charged with having broken judicial secrecy ? if not it has no relevance.
The issue was: were the files released before Sr Amarals book was on sale

Wrong, on all counts.

The issue is whether Amaral breached judicial secrecy (in writing his book)

Amaral breached judicial secrecy (in writing his book).

Therefore the likelihood is that the supreme court will re-instate the decision of the first-instance court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 06:13:14 PM
I guess we need to wait and see if it goes that far.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 06:18:57 PM
I've read the full judgement.

I don't think there's too much doubt that Dr Amaral should keep the cork firmly in place inside the bottle.

This judgement glosses over/ignores/disregards that Amaral breached judicial secrecy in writing his book, and thus did not (contrary to the assertion of this judgement) create the 'free market place of exchange of ideas' to which this judgement (essentially) appeals: whereby Amaral and Kate and Gerry could exchange views, insults, opinions (and all the rest) without fear of legal reprisal (on either side).

Because it is clearly and unequivocally established that Amaral did breach judicial secrecy, that state (of virtual annulment of the usual rules of libel) simply doesn't apply.

I predict that Isabel will drive a coach-and-horses through this judgement.

They've been saying that since 2010. They reported him to the PJ who didn't want to know. The Appeal Court threw it out this time too. The facts he used to support his theory were in the public domain, so were not secrets.

In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/

Perhaps you can provide a cite to refute mine?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 06:19:20 PM
Was he being charged with having broken judicial secrecy ? if not it has no relevance.
The issue was: were the files released before Sr Amarals book was on sale


It's a civil case, so he wasn't actually "charged" with anything.

How on earth the entire publishing process (from initial writing to manuscript editing to "line drawings" of file photos, to layout, proof-reading, printing and distribution) could have been completed with a book for sale on the shelves within a few days without violating judicial secrecy is beyond my comprehension.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 06:25:12 PM
Wrong, on all counts.

The issue is whether Amaral breached judicial secrecy (in writing his book)

Amaral breached judicial secrecy (in writing his book).

Therefore the likelihood is that the supreme court will re-instate the decision of the first-instance court.

You believe that if you wish.
The trial was about damage caused by the content of the book not breaking judicial secrecy.
The damages have been ruled as zilch, nada, fa to steal your expressions.
What do suppose the mechanism is for someone being found guilty of an offence with which he hasn't been charged while defending another charge. One of which is criminal and one of which is civil ?
Try to think about it without names attached.
As for your prediction well you are one nil down at present so there is no good track record there.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 06:26:53 PM

It's a civil case, so he wasn't actually "charged" with anything.

How on earth the entire publishing process (from initial writing to manuscript editing to "line drawings" of file photos, to layout, proof-reading, printing and distribution) could have been completed with a book for sale on the shelves within a few days without violating judicial secrecy is beyond my comprehension.

Look up "Delay" in construction contract law. That may give you a clue how these things work.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 06:28:11 PM
You believe that if you wish.
The trial was about damage caused by the content of the book not breaking judicial secrecy.
The damages have been ruled as zilch, nada, fa to steal your expressions.
What do suppose the mechanism is for someone being found guilty of an offence with which he hasn't been charged while defending another charge. One of which is criminal and one of which is civil ?
Try to think about it without names attached.
As for your prediction well you are one nil down at present so there is no good track record there.

with respect in the circumstances one nil down is not statistically significant
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 06:29:50 PM
They've been saying that since 2010. They reported him to the PJ who didn't want to know. The Appeal Court threw it out this time too. The facts he used to support his theory were in the public domain, so were not secrets.

In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.
http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/

Perhaps you can provide a cite to refute mine?

The question of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue (separate) criminal proceedings in respect of Amaral's breach of judicial secrecy is incidental to the key question of how Amaral's (undisputed) breach of judicial secrecy (in writing his book) affects the civil libel action brought by the McCanns.

If Amaral had, indeed, managed to write his book without breaching judicial secrecy (he did not!) chances are Amaral would have been outright winner at first instance and would be free to pile the commercial market with his book of lies.

Amaral breached judicial secrecy.

That is what makes a nonsense of this (latest) ruling, and why the McCanns are likely to win on (further) appeal to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 06:36:44 PM
You believe that if you wish.
The trial was about damage caused by the content of the book not breaking judicial secrecy.
The damages have been ruled as zilch, nada, fa to steal your expressions.
What do suppose the mechanism is for someone being found guilty of an offence with which he hasn't been charged while defending another charge. One of which is criminal and one of which is civil ?
Try to think about it without names attached.
As for your prediction well you are one nil down at present so there is no good track record there.

Amaral's breach (of judicial secrecy) is the key to (the nonsense) of the present ruling.

The question (of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue separate criminal proceedings in respect of that breach, or whether they don't) we can ignore (here).

The key question is how the (proven and undisputed) breach affects the civil proceedings brought by the McCanns.

It affects those proceedings by meaning that Amaral breached his obligation to keep his mouth shut about confidential matters (in spreading his lies in his book).

Seems as if Amaral would have had carte blanche (to spread his lies) if only he hadn't breached judicial secrecy.

He breached judicial secrecy. 

He didn't have that freedom.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 06:36:50 PM

It's a civil case, so he wasn't actually "charged" with anything.

How on earth the entire publishing process (from initial writing to manuscript editing to "line drawings" of file photos, to layout, proof-reading, printing and distribution) could have been completed with a book for sale on the shelves within a few days without violating judicial secrecy is beyond my comprehension.

Presumably it wasn't considered relevant.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 06:37:49 PM
Amaral's breach (of judicial secrecy) is the key to (the nonsense) of the present ruling.

The question (of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue separate criminal proceedings in respect of that breach, or whether they don't) we can ignore (here).

The key question is how the (proven and undisputed) breach affects the civil proceedings brought by the McCanns.

It affects those proceedings by meaning that Amaral breached his obligation to keep his mouth shut about confidential matters (in spreading his lies in his book).

Seems as if Amaral would have had carte blanche (to spread his lies) if only he hadn't breached judicial secrecy.

He breached judicial secrecy. 

He didn't have that freedom.

You'd be better telling the judges rather than us.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 06:38:24 PM
The question of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue (separate) criminal proceedings in respect of Amaral's breach of judicial secrecy is incidental to the key question of how Amaral's (undisputed) breach of judicial secrecy (in writing his book) affects the civil libel action brought by the McCanns.

If Amaral had, indeed, managed to write his book without breaching judicial secrecy (he did not!) chances are Amaral would have been outright winner at first instance and would be free to pile the commercial market with his book of lies.

Amaral breached judicial secrecy.

That is what makes a nonsense of this (latest) ruling, and why the McCanns are likely to win on (further) appeal to the Supreme Court.

Thinking about it, breaking judicial secrecy might not come under the civil appeal remit. If a complaint about that had indeed been filed (as a criminal offence), it might still be somewhere in the chain and not resolved at this time.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 06:39:37 PM
The question of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue (separate) criminal proceedings in respect of Amaral's breach of judicial secrecy is incidental to the key question of how  (in writing his book) affects the civil libel action brought by the McCanns.

If Amaral had, indeed, managed to write his book without breaching judicial secrecy (he did not!) chances are Amaral would have been outright winner at first instance and would be free to pile the commercial market with his book of lies.

Amaral breached judicial secrecy.

That is what makes a nonsense of this (latest) ruling, and why the McCanns are likely to win on (further) appeal to the Supreme Court.

You are unable to provide a cite to support your assertion I take it? If so, you should not post it as a fact.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 06:40:31 PM
Presumably it wasn't considered relevant.


Hmmm, not sure about that.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 21, 2016, 06:40:49 PM
The question of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue (separate) criminal proceedings in respect of Amaral's breach of judicial secrecy is incidental to the key question of how Amaral's (undisputed) breach of judicial secrecy (in writing his book) affects the civil libel action brought by the McCanns.

If Amaral had, indeed, managed to write his book without breaching judicial secrecy (he did not!) chances are Amaral would have been outright winner at first instance and would be free to pile the commercial market with his book of lies.

Amaral breached judicial secrecy.

That is what makes a nonsense of this (latest) ruling, and why the McCanns are likely to win on (further) appeal to the Supreme Court.

This has already been pointed out by another poster. Gonçalo Amaral cannot be convicted of a "crime" for which he has not been charged. His hierarchy in the PJ never raised the issue of breach of judicial secrecy, so bringing this issue up in a civil hearing is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 06:43:07 PM
This has already been pointed out by another poster. Gonçalo Amaral cannot be convicted of a "crime" for which he has not been charged. His hierarchy in the PJ never raised the issue of breach of judicial secrecy, so bringing this issue up in a civil hearing is irrelevant.

Was it filed? Even if it was, with everything going on in PT at the moment, the issue may not be on the top of the pile.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 06:45:57 PM
This has already been pointed out by another poster. Gonçalo Amaral cannot be convicted of a "crime" for which he has not been charged. His hierarchy in the PJ never raised the issue of breach of judicial secrecy, so bringing this issue up in a civil hearing is irrelevant.

Nothing has been pointed out.

A non-sequitur (or red-herring) has been raised.

Because Amaral breached judicial secrecy, he does not have the freedom (to issue forth lies and traducement) he would otherwise have.

He may (or may not) be prosecuted in separate criminal proceedings.

That is irrelevant (to this discussion).

Because he breached judicial secrecy, he is accountable for the lies he issued forth in his book and in interviews.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 06:56:07 PM
Thinking about it, breaking judicial secrecy might not come under the civil appeal remit. If a complaint about that had indeed been filed (as a criminal offence), it might still be somewhere in the chain and not resolved at this time.

It's six years since Duarte said she was going to file a complaint but I don't know if she did, they may have decided it would be more lucrative to sue, like they did with the UK newspapers.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 06:59:36 PM
This has already been pointed out by another poster. Gonçalo Amaral cannot be convicted of a "crime" for which he has not been charged. His hierarchy in the PJ never raised the issue of breach of judicial secrecy, so bringing this issue up in a civil hearing is irrelevant.

no it isn't...just because you have not been found guilty in a criminal court for an offence does not mean a claim cannot be made in a civil court...as OJ Simpson found out
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 06:59:36 PM
Nothing has been pointed out.

A non-sequitur (or red-herring) has been raised.

Because Amaral breached judicial secrecy, he does not have the freedom (to issue forth lies and traducement) he would otherwise have.

He may (or may not) be prosecuted in separate criminal proceedings.

That is irrelevant (to this discussion).

Because he breached judicial secrecy, he is accountable for the lies he issued forth in his book and in interviews.

Please provide a cite to support your assertion or stop posting it as a fact.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 06:59:36 PM
Nothing has been pointed out.

A non-sequitur (or red-herring) has been raised.

Because Amaral breached judicial secrecy, he does not have the freedom (to issue forth lies and traducement) he would otherwise have.

He may (or may not) be prosecuted in separate criminal proceedings.

That is irrelevant (to this discussion).

Because he breached judicial secrecy, he is accountable for the lies he issued forth in his book and in interviews.

Breaching judicial secrecy wasn't the main issue: it was the timing of it all.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 07:00:42 PM
It's six years since Duarte said she was going to file a complaint but I don't know if she did, they may have decided it would be more lucrative to sue, like they did with the UK newspapers.

Not one of their better ideas when you consider how long this has dragged and with no apparent end in sight.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 07:01:46 PM
What I don't understand is if the full files were already in the public domain when the book was published, why don't the contents of the book reflect the conclusion of the AG upon shelving?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:02:59 PM
The question of whether the Portuguese authorities choose to pursue (separate) criminal proceedings in respect of Amaral's breach of judicial secrecy is incidental to the key question of how Amaral's (undisputed) breach of judicial secrecy (in writing his book) affects the civil libel action brought by the McCanns.

If Amaral had, indeed, managed to write his book without breaching judicial secrecy (he did not!) chances are Amaral would have been outright winner at first instance and would be free to pile the commercial market with his book of lies.

Amaral breached judicial secrecy.

That is what makes a nonsense of this (latest) ruling, and why the McCanns are likely to win on (further) appeal to the Supreme Court.

No chance.

If they half a brain they would stop now.

However, their arrogance knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 07:12:23 PM
Breaching judicial secrecy wasn't the main issue: it was the timing of it all.

Differ slightly.

Breaching judicial secrecy was the main issue, but not from a perspective of (possible) criminal proceedings that issue from that breach: rather from the perspective that had he not breached judicial secrecy, he would, indeed, have carte-blanche to say whatever he wanted without let, hindrance or fear of any reprisal (criminal or civil) ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 07:15:42 PM
Please provide a cite to support your assertion or stop posting it as a fact.

From the judgement:

Quote
And, under such terms, although the introductory note in the book invokes personal reasons, in a situation of conflict with the rights to a good name and reputation of the subjects of the appeal, the appellant [Gonçalo Amaral] could not benefit, faced with the results of the investigation, of a broad and full freedom of expression – and thus his conduct would be unlawful, under article 484 of the Civil Code.



From what was above said about this matter, it is clearly understood that such argumentation cannot be sustained.



In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

That (from the judgement) is a straightforward denial of Amaral's (actual!) duty to observe the rules of secrecy his (former) position as co-ordinator of the investigation imposed upon him.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 07:19:45 PM
You are omitting the 'hardly understandable'. which I think changes to meaning of the following text to the exact opposite of what you are claiming.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 07:20:50 PM
What I don't understand is if the full files were already in the public domain when the book was published, why don't the contents of the book reflect the conclusion of the AG upon shelving?

At some point he said that it was based on the contents of the files up until he was taken off the case, and was too busy with his best-seller book promo tour to read the full files. But then, at times he added certain details in interviews that seemingly took place after he'd left.







Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 07:24:20 PM
You are omitting the 'hardly understandable'. which I think changes to meaning of the following text to the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

The (author of the judgement) finds the point not sustainable, despite that the principle is enshrined in Portuguese law.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:26:28 PM
The (author of the judgement) finds the point not sustainable, despite that the principle is enshrined in Portuguese law.

The mccanns through their repeated arrogance were hoisted on their own petard.

They deserved what they got, a caning in the court judgement.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 07:30:05 PM
The mccanns through their repeated arrogance were hoisted on their own petard.

They deserved what they got, a caning in the court judgement.

There's one more round to go.

Seems as if the first-instance judge applied Portuguese law more precisely than than the appeal-court judge who overruled it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 07:31:55 PM
The mccanns through their repeated arrogance were hoisted on their own petard.

They deserved what they got, a caning in the court judgement.

has no one told you they intend to appeal...let me be the first
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 07:33:01 PM
I think we need to wait until it is officially announced, thank you all the same  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:33:06 PM
There's one more round to go.

Seems as if the first-instance judge applied Portuguese law more precisely than than the appeal-court judge who overruled it.

Keep dreaming.

Note, it was judges.

Try to keep up with events and look forward to the mccanns being taken to court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 07:35:20 PM
Breaching judicial secrecy wasn't the main issue: it was the timing of it all.

According to the first judge. Her ruling has been overturned now. It's history.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:35:27 PM
has no one told you they intend to appeal...let me be the first

What a wasted comment.


We already know they intend to, doesn't mean it will get granted.

Do you want to see them get caned in court again ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:37:37 PM
It is quite amusing to watch mccann backers trying vainly to put a gloss on the appeal court decision.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 07:39:30 PM
Breaching judicial secrecy wasn't the main issue: it was the timing of it all.

Timing of the breach.

Yes.

Beg your pardon.

Is right ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 07:45:37 PM
From the judgement:

That (from the judgement) is a straightforward denial of Amaral's (actual!) duty to observe the rules of secrecy his (former) position as co-ordinator of the investigation imposed upon him.

You misunderstand I'm afraid.


In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

What they [3 judges btw] said is he didn't have to observe secrecy even if he was employed, but more so as he was retired. Particularly as those facts had been made public by the judiciary authority and had been debated by the media.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 07:45:55 PM
What a wasted comment.


We already know they intend to, doesn't mean it will get granted.

Do you want to see them get caned in court again ?

you seem to be very angry now you realise things are not as you thought
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Carana on April 21, 2016, 07:49:05 PM
You misunderstand I'm afraid.


In effect, and independently of the reasons invoked by the appellant for the publication, it is hardly understandable that an employee, even more a retired one, would have to keep said duties of secrecy and reserve, thus being limited in the exercise of his right to an opinion, concerning the interpretation of facts that were already made public by the judiciary authority, and widely debated (in fact, largely by initiative of the intervenients themselves) in the national and international media.

What they [3 judges btw] said is he didn't have to observe secrecy even if he was employed, but more so as he was retired. Particularly as those facts had been made public by the judiciary authority and had been debated by the media.

Who does the duty to shut up about a case you were involved in apply to then?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 07:56:33 PM
Now wouldn't it be lovely to see all the mccanns assets seized as were Amaral's , including I believe his pension.

 8)--))

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 07:57:08 PM
Now wouldn't it be lovely to see all the mccanns assets seized as were Amaral's , including I believe his pension.

 8)--))

 8)--)) whats that saying be careful what you  wish for?? they wasted 6 years of their  and the twins lives and for  what??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 07:57:49 PM
Looks like your prediction was wrong?   ?{)(**


NO ....It's you that is wrong John....thought I would have a look at my previous posts on this....looks like my prediction was absolutely correct


Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Montclair on April 21, 2016, 07:58:40 PM
IIRC, it was in January 2010, during the hearings for the injunction, the McCanns, accompanied by Dra Isabel Duarte, rushed to the court house in Oeiras (I think) to file a criminal complaint against Gonçalo Amaral for breach of judicial secrecy. The complaint was rejected by the Ministério Público. Since, ID did not succeed with the complaint she tried to slip it in the damages trial.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:00:38 PM
Now wouldn't it be lovely to see all the mccanns assets seized as were Amaral's , including I believe his pension.

 8)--))

so are you under the misguided impression that the portuguese court judgement will allow amaral to seize assets in the UK
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:01:14 PM
IIRC, it was in January 2010, during the hearings for the injunction, the McCanns, accompanied by Dra Isabel Duarte, rushed to the court house in Oeiras (I think) to file a criminal complaint against Gonçalo Amaral for breach of judicial secrecy. The complaint was rejected away by the Ministério Público. Since, ID did not succeed with the complaint she tried to slip it in the damages trial.


And, clearly, has been rejected again.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:02:45 PM
so are you under the misguided impression that the portuguese court judgement will allow amaral to seize assets in the UK

Did I say that, NO.

However , it would be poetic justice.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 08:03:33 PM
Of course we'd have been thrilled; and we are dismayed that ham-fisted and awry application of Portugal law has delayed confirmation of a another legal cheque-list the McCanns can tick off in their quest for truth, justice and the return of their daughter ....

Shouldn't that have been check? Maybe not..... @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:04:44 PM

NO ....It's you that is wrong John....thought I would have a look at my previous posts on this....looks like my prediction was absolutely correct


Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing

Not anymore.

You need a rapid dose of reality.

The mccanns lost big time in the Portuguese appeal court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:04:48 PM
Shouldn't that have been check? Maybe not..... @)(++(*


Money, Money, Money  (apologies to ABBA)    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:05:28 PM
Did I say that, NO.

However , it would be poetic justice.

You really need some lessons in comprehension

yes you did
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 21, 2016, 08:07:09 PM
Who does the duty to shut up about a case you were involved in apply to then?


I really don't know where these judges were coming from their attitude seems remarkably archaic with no understanding at all of the importance of publicising of a missing child.

My interpretation of the part of the decision I have read so far is that it reveals a total misconception about what it was the McCanns were doing when they made themselves available for interview with the press.

Apparently the efforts they made to publicise their missing child negated their rights and was looked upon as them expressing an opinion.

Which tit for tat in the eyes of the judges meant … they were pushing their theory of abduction, therefore Goncalo Amaral was entitled to write a book to promote his.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:07:44 PM

Money, Money, Money  (apologies to ABBA)    @)(++(*

You got it.

Plus of course REVENGE on Amaral.

That hasn't worked out.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:10:03 PM
Would big-time be an apt description of a major misapplication of Portuguese law?

May be ....

No, the mccanns lost.

Get over it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:10:39 PM
Not anymore.

You need a rapid dose of reality.

The mccanns lost big time in the Portuguese appeal court.

to correct the mistake posted by several posters that my prediction was wrong...it was not...I was spot on....

I predicted that amaral would appeal and that he may well be successful...I now predict that the McCanns will appeal and may well be successful
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:11:13 PM
to correct the mistake posted by several posters that my prediction was wrong...it was not...I was spot on....

I predicted that amaral would appeal and that he may well be successful...I now predict that the McCanns will appeal and may well be successful

CITE.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:12:57 PM
to correct the mistake posted by several posters that my prediction was wrong...it was not...I was spot on....

I predicted that amaral would appeal and that he may well be successful...I now predict that the McCanns will appeal and may well be successful

Which also  means they may not.  Not much of a prediction, Mystic Davel
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 08:14:13 PM
Which also  means they may not.  Not much of a prediction, Mystic Davel

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:20:09 PM
Which also  means they may not.  Not much of a prediction, Mystic Davel

but those who claim my prediction was wrong...are themselves wrong
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
but those who claim my prediction was wrong...are themselves wrong


Not me, I just think you talk crystal balls
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:21:36 PM
CITE.

Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing


its on about pg 4 of the other thread.....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:22:27 PM

Not me, I just think you talk crystal balls

it's all probably totally over your head
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 08:22:43 PM

NO ....It's you that is wrong John....thought I would have a look at my previous posts on this....looks like my prediction was absolutely correct


Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing
Here again we have the use of the remarkable old english unit of measure - the handful.
From the child's bed to the restaurant was only a "handful" of yards, and Mr Amaral has only a "handful" of supporters. What this unit lacks in scientific accuracy it more than makes up for in slipperyness and charisma. Perhaps we mathematicians could suggest it at the next CGPM as a welcome addition to to the boringly accurate SI system Davel?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing


its on about pg 4 of the other thread.....

Now let's see all your comments from the last court case.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 08:24:17 PM
Here again we have the use of the remarkable old english unit of measure - the handful.
From the child's bed to the restaurant was only a "handful" of yards, and Mr Amaral has only a "handful" of supporters. What this unit lacks in scientific accuracy it more than makes up for in slipperyness and charisma. Perhaps we mathematicians could suggest it at the next CGPM  as a welcome addition to to the boringly accurate SI system Davel?


 *&*%£
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:24:35 PM
Amaral is basically bankrupt...both financially and morally. He has been humiliated totally by the court in his own country. He has a choice of handing all his money to the McCanns or appealing. The appeal won't cost him apenny because he has nothing. He can count on the financial support of a handful of misguided supporters and who knows...if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing


its on about pg 4 of the other thread.....

Give a link.

If that post has been amended, it has no value.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:26:19 PM
Give a link.

If that post has been amended, it has no value.

if its been amended it will say so ...seems you are totally shocked how wrong you were
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:28:58 PM
if its been amended it will say so ...seems you are totally shocked how wrong you were

Give the link to that.

Then give the links to your other comments to the previous judgement and predictions of this one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
Give the link to that.

Then give the links to your other comments to the previous judgement and predictions of this one.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6269.15


near the bottom of the page...and it hasn't been edited as you will see....and that is a prediction of this judgement...a very precise prediction
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:35:14 PM
Not much of a prediction, though, hedged with 'if' and' may'

"if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time."
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:35:20 PM
Give the link to that.

Then give the links to your other comments to the previous judgement and predictions of this one.

and on the same page I say although I am delighted with the judgement I realise the appeals could drag on for years...

I'm still delighted with the outcome...we all knew it could drag on with appeals...it's great that amaral has been humiliated by his own countries court


Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:35:58 PM
Not much of a prediction, though, hedged with 'if' and' may'

"if an appeal is allowed he just may get a better result next time."

but correct...you would have to admit
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:37:08 PM
but correct...you would have to admit


With that level of uncertainty, it would be hard to be wrong    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:37:49 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6269.15


near the bottom of the page...and it hasn't been edited as you will see....and that is a prediction of this judgement...a very precise prediction

Hardly.

'..he just may get a better result next time...and if he doesn't...he has lost nothing'

It's called hedging your bets.

Maybe yes, and maybe no.

Now how about links to your other comments in regard to this matter following the previous court judgment
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
and on the same page I say although I am delighted with the judgement I realise the appeals could drag on for years...

I'm still delighted with the outcome...we all knew it could drag on with appeals...it's great that amaral has been humiliated by his own countries court

Now the mccanns are totally humiliated all around the world.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:40:01 PM
but correct...you would have to admit

Maybe yes, maybe no.

That's all it says.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 08:41:16 PM
Now the mccanns are totally humiliated all around the world.

the  mcann supporters havent been very graceful in defeat have  they?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 08:43:51 PM
the  mcann supporters havent been very graceful in defeat have  they?

Nah.

Gloat last time, bleat this time.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 08:51:19 PM
Here's an opportunity to make a prediction Davel.
Will Duarte lodge an appeal to the Supreme Court?
Then, in less than 30 days time, we'll see if you were right.
BTW my prediction is : No.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 08:52:42 PM
i just read that  portugal  supreme courts will not even think about entertaining  civil squabbles  in this  case 8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:53:25 PM
Maybe yes, maybe no.

That's all it says.

#but it is not wrong ..is it

When many were saying that amaral didn't have a chance...remember... I had the insight...intelligence...call it what you will...to realise he just might win his appeal
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 08:53:40 PM
Now the mccanns are totally humiliated all around the world.

And Madeleine McCann is once again prominently in public focus.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:55:14 PM
Here's an opportunity to make a prediction Davel.
Will Duarte lodge an appeal to the Supreme Court?
Then, in less than 30 days time, we'll see if you were right.
BTW my prediction is : No.

What a question.
Is he allowed to confer or ask a friend?    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:55:41 PM
Here's an opportunity to make a prediction Davel.
Will Duarte lodge an appeal to the Supreme Court?
Then, in less than 30 days time, we'll see if you were right.
BTW my prediction is : No.

I would say she will...but there again perhaps I have inside information
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 21, 2016, 08:56:30 PM
What a question.
Is he allowed to confer or ask a friend?    @)(++(*

perhaps I already have
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 08:56:56 PM
I would say she will...but there again perhaps I have inside information

we have  no doubt you  do
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 08:57:42 PM
perhaps I already have

It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 08:58:05 PM
i wonder if  what i  read is true about  portugese supreme  court not  dealign with civil cases??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 08:59:21 PM
@Pegasus
Will Goncalo Amaral sue all those supporters who have posted  free English translations of his book online, breaching copyright & depriving him of income?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 09:01:02 PM
i wonder if  what i  read is true about  portugese supreme  court not  dealign with civil cases??


Now it would be a bit of a bummer if that were true, but surely the all knowing Isabel wouldn't make such an elementary mistake, would she ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 09:03:02 PM
i wonder if  what i  read is true about  portugese supreme  court not  dealign with civil cases??

http://www.europeanlawinstitute.eu/membership/institutional-observers/portuguese-supreme-court/
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 09:04:53 PM
i read  this   
legal sources in portugal  say over for gerry and  kate  PT   supreme court will not entertain  civil squabbles


appently the source is   Isabelle McFadden
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:09:32 PM
i wonder if  what i  read is true about  portugese supreme  court not  dealign with civil cases??

It's not true, Carly.

http://countrystudies.us/portugal/82.htm
*snipped*
The Supreme Court of Justice is designated the "highest court of law," but "without prejudice to the jurisdiction of the Constitutional Court," and heads the court system that deals with civil and criminal cases. The courts of first instance (the first courts to try a case) are the municipal and district courts; the courts of second instance are, as a rule, courts of appeal. As of the early 1990s, there were four of these latter courts. The Supreme Court of Justice may serve as a court of first instance in some cases and as an appeals court in others.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 09:09:49 PM
I suppose there is a difference between being able to hear an appeal and choosing to hear one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:13:28 PM
And Madeleine McCann is once again prominently in public focus.

No trace of her.

Not one solitary clue.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 09:15:33 PM
I suppose there is a difference between being able to hear an appeal and choosing to hear one.

the supreme court  doesnt have to accept their appeal do they??
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:17:00 PM
the supreme court  doesnt have to accept their appeal do they??

Monclair or Shining would have some idea on that.

Or perhaps ferryman can Google again. 8)--))
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 09:18:39 PM
Monclair or Shining would have some idea on that.

Or perhaps ferryman can Google again. 8)--))

hey google is a  friend to   all   ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:19:19 PM
No trace of her.

Not one solitary clue.

Your negativity is only exceeded by your desire to share it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 09:20:01 PM
Monclair or Shining would have some idea on that.

Or perhaps ferryman can Google again. 8)--))

Google (has) provided the definitive answer on this one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:20:41 PM
You negativity is only exceeded by your desire to share it.

What part of no trace of Madeleine do you not get ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:21:31 PM
Google (has) provided the definitive answer on this one.

Come on, I can hardly wait. 6&%5%
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 09:21:51 PM
Google (has) provided the definitive answer on this one.

Not really . It says that the Supreme Court can hear civil cases, not that it invariably will hear them.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:22:55 PM
Here's another link to the role of the Supreme Court. Perhaps one of Isa's friends could post it to her.
http://www.lexadin.nl/wlg/courts/nofr/eur/lxctpor.htm
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 21, 2016, 09:23:42 PM
Not really . It says that the Supreme Court can hear civil cases, not that it invariably will hear them.

Oh dear ....
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:26:03 PM
Could you try that in legible English ?

It's supporterspeak. You'd never understand it.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:27:21 PM
It's supporterspeak. You'd never understand it.

No it's mccann supporter double Dutch.

As clear as your ability to solve equations.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:31:01 PM
No it's mccann supporter double Dutch.

As clear as your ability to solve equations.

I understood what Ferryman posted but perhaps I am considerably cleverer that wot you fink.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 09:33:22 PM
I understood what Ferryman posted but perhaps I am considerably cleverer that wot you fink.

Is that the elite group style of coomunication skills on display ? 8(0(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ChloeR on April 21, 2016, 09:36:43 PM
I cannot believe the McCanns are trying to make out this is not about money. Thats the biggest joke in all of this.

Thrilled with the results.

I rather hope Amaral does not attempt to sue the McCanns though, or this whole things never going to end.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 09:38:20 PM
And Madeleine McCann is once again prominently in public focus.

Any publicity being good publicity presumably.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:39:51 PM
Is that the elite group style of coomunication skills on display ? 8(0(*

Pigeon English :)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 09:40:35 PM
I cannot believe the McCanns are trying to make out this is not about money. Thats the biggest joke in all of this.

Thrilled with the results.

I rather hope Amaral does not attempt to sue the McCanns though, or this whole things never going to end.

welcome chloe   we  are friendly here a  few  are a  bit angry about the results  though    but dont worry about them
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 09:43:56 PM
I cannot believe the McCanns are trying to make out this is not about money. Thats the biggest joke in all of this.

Thrilled with the results.

I rather hope Amaral does not attempt to sue the McCanns though, or this whole things never going to end.

Welcome, Chloe.
It's all about stopping the spread of the lies.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pegasus on April 21, 2016, 09:48:17 PM
@Pegasus
Will Goncalo Amaral sue all those supporters who have posted  free English translations of his book online, breaching copyright & depriving him of income?
IMO he won't.
I would recommend that Mr Amaral should release an online version of the book free.
BTW I would also suggest that KM should release an online version of her book free.

Both authors wrote their books honestly and sincerely with the overriding aim of ensuring the case is solved.
Therefore it would be absurd to act against their free availability online.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ChloeR on April 21, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree here. Everything is about the money in this whole sorry story.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ChloeR on April 21, 2016, 09:51:47 PM
welcome chloe   we  are friendly here a  few  are a  bit angry about the results  though    but dont worry about them
Thank you. I have read the forum for a few months now and delayed joining as it didn't seem the friendliest of places from the outside looking in. But I felt the need to join after the news about the appeal :)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
Nope, it's about revenge and money for the mccanns.

"He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: jassi on April 21, 2016, 09:57:37 PM
"He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."


Ah yes, the fragrant Kate at her most eloquent   
Where would we be without her literary masterpiece   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 09:59:35 PM

Ah yes, the fragrant Kate at her most eloquent   @)(++(*

She's lovely really. But not now  ?8)@)-) 8(8-)) 8)><(
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 10:02:30 PM
Thank you. I have read the forum for a few months now and delayed joining as it didn't seem the friendliest of places from the outside looking in. But I felt the need to join after the news about the appeal :)

Welcome Chloe.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 21, 2016, 10:03:17 PM
"He deserves to be miserable and feel fear."

That is the attitude of the mccanns and some of their supporters.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 21, 2016, 10:08:05 PM
That is the attitude of the mccanns and some of their supporters.

What goes around comes around. If they thought Amaral was going to submit they now know he'll never bow down to them. They got it right it's called a FIGHTING fund.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: G-Unit on April 21, 2016, 10:17:11 PM
Thank you. I have read the forum for a few months now and delayed joining as it didn't seem the friendliest of places from the outside looking in. But I felt the need to join after the news about the appeal :)

Welcome Chloe. It's not an easy forum but it's unique in that it reflects different opinions. The news about the appeal was seen as good news by lots of people.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: mercury on April 21, 2016, 10:24:39 PM
Welcome Chloe. Don't worry, its fairly well moderated so you wont get it descending to a twitter type  level. But if anyone bullies you, just hit the report button. The vast majority of peple on here are capable of being civil and following the rules most of the time.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:03:11 PM

I really don't know where these judges were coming from their attitude seems remarkably archaic with no understanding at all of the importance of publicising of a missing child.

My interpretation of the part of the decision I have read so far is that it reveals a total misconception about what it was the McCanns were doing when they made themselves available for interview with the press.

Apparently the efforts they made to publicise their missing child negated their rights and was looked upon as them expressing an opinion.

Which tit for tat in the eyes of the judges meant … they were pushing their theory of abduction, therefore Goncalo Amaral was entitled to write a book to promote his.

The problem with courts and judges is that they "do" law. That is usually a difficult thing for the average punter to grasp. The punter always wants to muddy the waters with things he thinks are relevant but aren't in the context of the matter being tried.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:16:40 PM
the  mcann supporters havent been very graceful in defeat have  they?

That's because they see it as a major victory for the McCanns/it was dodgy offside call by the ref/the judges don't understand Portuguese law.....................delete as applicable.
My favourite is "the Portuguese Judges do not understand Portuguese law"; kin priceless that one.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: slartibartfast on April 21, 2016, 11:20:37 PM
That's because they see it as a major victory for the McCanns/it was dodgy offside call by the ref/the judges don't understand Portuguese law.....................delete as applicable.
My favourite is "the Portuguese Judges do not understand Portuguese law"; kin priceless that one.

I have yet to see one of them post a valid basis for an appeal that has not already been examined in the case so far. Name calling of people, organisations and countries doesn't count.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
That's because they see it as a major victory for the McCanns/it was dodgy offside call by the ref/the judges don't understand Portuguese law.....................delete as applicable.
My favourite is "the Portuguese Judges do not understand Portuguese law"; kin priceless that one.

Clearly they don't....how many times has one court overruled a decision taken by another court in the McCann trial alone?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:30:31 PM
the supreme court  doesnt have to accept their appeal do they??

The appeal has to be on a point of law acceptable to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:33:55 PM
Pigeon English :)

What?
You mean pidgin and its now non pc to say that it should be called Neo Melanesian  ?{)(**
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:40:46 PM
Clearly they don't....how many times has one court overruled a decision taken by another court in the McCann trial alone?

Not a lot different from any other judiciary system then ?
 

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 11:41:42 PM
What?
You mean pidgin and its now non pc to say that it should be called Neo Melanesian  ?{)(**

Read Stephen's post again. :)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 11:44:49 PM
In the aftermath of their libel case defeat, the parents of missing Madeleine McCann are reported to be threatening people found selling the damning book "Truth of the Lie" that has been once again freed from censorship.

The UK’s Daily Mirror claims Kate and Gerry McCann “have warned anyone caught selling ex-police chief Gonzalo (sic) Amaral’s book in the UK would face legal action”.

But the story fails to address the fact that, right now, there is no legal basis for this tactic.

Amaral’s thesis will be returning to bookstores in Portugal next week as both he and his publishers Guerra e Paz have won the civil action lodged against them.

It is possible the McCann’s lawyers will argue that the appeal they claim to be lodging with Portugal’s Supreme Court could cover threats of legal action - but this is also debatable, say legal experts.

“The book is not held to be defamatory in any jurisdiction in the world”, said one - pointing out at the same time that an appeal to the Supreme Court in Portugal is equivalent to an appeal to the House of Lords in Great Britain.

“These courts only listen to cases involving important points of law, of general public importance”, he told us. “They are not interested in facts, nor minor squabbles - nor whether the Court of Appeal has made a good or bad decision.

“They are only interested if they have to clarify something which the substantive law has not made entirely clear”.

In other words, an appeal by the McCann’s to continue their action against former PJ coordinator Gonçalo Amaral “may not even be entertained”, said the source.

Be that as it may, the fallout from Tuesday’s decision is reverberating through the world’s media channels, particularly as Amaral has hit back almost immediately with the news that his lawyers will now be suing for compensation.

The bill “could run into the hundreds of thousands of euros”, writes the Mirror, explaining that Amaral is said to be suing for “years of financial losses in which his good name has been called into question”.

Negotiating with his publishers today, the former detective confirmed to the Resident that “what the McCanns are doing is illegal. I am in talks with my publishers for a book in the English language, as there is as yet no publisher in the UK, the USA, Australia, New Zealand - not even Amazon - that is selling it.

"The McCanns will learn to respect the right to opinion and freedom of expression”, he added - stressing that “any version” of Truth of the Lie in English that can be found on the Internet is also illegal, as neither he nor Guerra e Paz publishers have given their authorisation to translations.

natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 21, 2016, 11:48:17 PM
Read Stephen's post again. :)

Jeez you are kidding.
I have been out to the theatre and logged in here for a laugh on my return and just waded through 10 pages of yesterdays rubbish you lot have cut and pasted into today while I have been out. Well that's what it looks like.


Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 21, 2016, 11:50:54 PM
Jeez you are kidding.
I have been out to the theatre and logged in here for a laugh on my return and just waded through 10 pages of yesterdays rubbish you lot have cut and pasted into today while I have been out. Well that's what it looks like.

 oops  im sorry 8)><( i  reposted that article because it  explains portugese legal experts dont think the appeal will happen  me  bad @)(++(*
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: misty on April 21, 2016, 11:51:33 PM
Jeez you are kidding.
I have been out to the theatre and logged in here for a laugh on my return and just waded through 10 pages of yesterdays rubbish you lot have cut and pasted into today while I have been out. Well that's what it looks like.

See post #1013. (I have my helpful hat on)
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Brietta on April 22, 2016, 12:28:13 AM
The problem with courts and judges is that they "do" law. That is usually a difficult thing for the average punter to grasp. The punter always wants to muddy the waters with things he thinks are relevant but aren't in the context of the matter being tried.

I've not had time to read through it and certainly have not studied it in any great depth.  I must admit that the couple of introductory paragraphs I have glanced at have stunned me somewhat. 

As you say ... "the problem with courts and judges is that they "do law" and that was exactly what I was expecting ... loads of 'legalese'.

That was exactly what I did not see.

Instead I found myself reading puerile drivel which looked as if it had been bussed in from a parallel universe.
For example ...

quote
As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion. end quote

The circumstances surrounding Madeleine McCann's disappearance ~ the conduct of which in almost any other jurisdiction would probably have been subject to an inquiry to find out what had gone wrong with the conduct of it ~ have become all about Goncalo Amaral's "pride and honour" which was allegedly under attack giving him the right to publicise his opinion.

A sudden image of duelling banjos flashed across my mind as I read. 

I am incredulous at the little I have read of the judgement.  I really didn't expect three learned judges to subscribe to thought processes of that type ... I cringe for them.

Onwards and upwards though ... maybe it will get better the more I read of it, but my introduction has been less than promising.  There must surely be points of law in there somewhere ~ I'll let you know if I find any.

Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 22, 2016, 12:52:11 AM
Monclair or Shining would have some idea on that.

Or perhaps ferryman can Google again. 8)--))
I have absolutely no idea on this.  I shall simply wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 22, 2016, 07:33:26 AM
I have yet to see one of them post a valid basis for an appeal that has not already been examined in the case so far. Name calling of people, organisations and countries doesn't count.

you don't seem to have noticed that amarals appeal was simply the same points revisited.......so the appeal will no doubt be ...the same points revisited
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: ferryman on April 22, 2016, 07:58:53 AM
I have yet to see one of them post a valid basis for an appeal that has not already been examined in the case so far. Name calling of people, organisations and countries doesn't count.

The basis of appeal stands out a mile.

The appeal-court judge (in the judgement just handed down) improperly applied Portuguese law by ignoring that, in writing his book, Amaral breached the rules of judicial secrecy so that the state of to s/he who is willing, no harm can come (the principle the appeal judgement rests on) doesn't (or shouldn't) apply.

This appeal-court judge screwed up.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 22, 2016, 08:07:23 AM
Have amaral's assets been unfrozen
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2016, 08:09:29 AM
The basis of appeal stands out a mile.

The appeal-court judge (in the judgement just handed down) improperly applied Portuguese law by ignoring that, in writing his book, Amaral breached the rules of judicial secrecy so that the state of to s/he who is willing, no harm can come (the principle the appeal judgement rests on) doesn't (or shouldn't) apply.

This appeal-court judge screwed up.

No they didn't.

It was 3 judges remember.

The ones screwing up were the mccanns, REMEMBER.

The judges got it just right and the mccanns got the medicine they have long deserved.
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: Davel on April 22, 2016, 08:11:05 AM
No they didn't.

It was 3 judges remember.

The ones screwing up were the mccanns, REMEMBER.

The judges got it just right and the mccanns got the medicine they have long deserved.

so has the court released amaral's assets ...
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2016, 08:12:53 AM
so has the court released amaral's assets ...

You mean you don't know ?
Title: Re: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.
Post by: carlymichelle on April 22, 2016, 08:14:22 AM
No they didn't.

It was 3 judges remember.

The ones screwing up were the mccanns, REMEMBER.

The judges got it just right and the mccanns got the medicine they have long deserved.

i    still wonder    why ferryman is  so obsessed  and upset by this verdict   IMO    it isa over the top  re