UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: John on June 30, 2016, 10:58:06 AM

Title: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 10:58:06 AM
Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?

This question was raised again recently as part of the pre referendum debate.  Boris Johnson suggested that an amnesty for the estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK, most of whom can be found in London, would be the humane thing to do.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-illegal-immigrants-immigration-amnesty-eu-referendum-vote-leave-a7090246.html

We opened up this question on twitter today, follow the result below.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120

What do you think?


133
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:10:58 AM
Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?

This question was raised again recently as part of the pre referendum debate.  Boris Johnson suggested that an amnesty for the estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK, most of whom can be found in London, would be the humane thing to do.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-illegal-immigrants-immigration-amnesty-eu-referendum-vote-leave-a7090246.html

We opened up this question on twitter today, follow the result below.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120

What do you think?

So how would anyone on here in favour of that propose 500,000 people being forcibly removed from this country ?

After first putting them into detention.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 11:14:12 AM
So how would anyone on here in favour of that propose 500,000 people being forcibly removed from this country ?

After first putting them into detention.

So I take it you are in favour Stephen?  I knew you had something in common with Boris after all.

Note:  453 people have already voted in an hour of whom 73% say remove.

     
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 11:22:06 AM
So I take it you are in favour Stephen?  I knew you had something in common with Boris after all.

Note:  453 people have already voted in an hour of whom 73% say remove.

The question of immigration is red hot at the moment.  Despite the small group of bleedin hearters the vast majority of people in the UK are sick to the back teeth of these illegals.  I say repatriate them no matter what it takes.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:27:52 AM
So I take it you are in favour Stephen?  I knew you had something in common with Boris after all.

Note:  453 people have already voted in an hour of whom 73% say remove.

     

I have noted the comments.

So, how much money will all this cost to remove them, and how much time ?

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:32:18 AM
The question of immigration is red hot at the moment.  Despite the small group of bleedin hearters the vast majority of people in the UK are sick to the back teeth of these illegals.  I say repatriate them no matter what it takes.

I would say the vast majority of people actually have the common sense to know it won't happen.

I've no problem with people coming here to work, as long as they contribute to the economy.

However, I do have a problem with the scroungers over here, too lazy to work, and bleeding off the tax payer.

I wonder how many of them voted for brexit ?

It's logic 'Jim', but not as some know it.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 11:42:45 AM
an amnesty is the expedient solution.  Tracking down and forcibly deporting half a million people would cost this country billions. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:46:21 AM
...and if this helps........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10417222/Illegal-immigrants-cost-taxpayer-more-than-4000-a-head-each-year.html

The report said: “The average cost of a voluntary removal is £1,000, and the average cost of an enforced removal is £15,000.

So a bit of simple maths...................

From a lower limit of

500,000 x £1,000 =  £ 500,000,000

To the upper limit

500,000 x £15,000 =  £7,500,000,000

That's assuming of course the number of illegal immigrants is correct.

and I doubt many of these people will readily be deported, so the upper figure could well be an under estimation.


Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 11:47:00 AM
an amnesty is the expedient solution.  Tracking down and forcibly deporting half a million people would cost this country billions.

Precisely Alf.

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 12:07:22 PM
We have to send the right message out...an amnesty would encourage people to come. I have been involved in representing genuine visa applicants at the immigration court...people who are happy to obey the rules governing visas so no one can accuse me of racism. We must have rules. We don't put aside billions but illegal immigrants must know they will be deported. We gave an amnesty to sangatte to solve a problem...all we got was another sangatte.
if we give an amnesty all these people will be able eventually to apply to have their entire family join them in the UK...some posters do not understand the reality of the situation
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 12:35:08 PM
We have to send the right message out...an amnesty would encourage people to come. I have been involved in representing genuine visa applicants at the immigration court...people who are happy to obey the rules governing visas so no one can accuse me of racism. We must have rules. We don't put aside billions but illegal immigrants must know they will be deported. We gave an amnesty to sangatte to solve a problem...all we got was another sangatte.
if we give an amnesty all these people will be able eventually to apply to have their entire family join them in the UK...some posters do not understand the reality of the situation

Absolutely.  Alf and Stephen would want to fill this country with foreigners which makes me question their motive.

I notice on the forum twitter account that almost 600 people have voted with 75% saying remove illegals, 15% don't remove them and 10% undecided.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 12:37:29 PM
Absolutely.  Alf and Stephen would want to fill this country with foreigners which makes me question their motive.

Putting words in both me and Alf's mouths  ?

Tell me Angelo, have you had any experience in the field of removing illegal immigrants ? 8)-)))
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 12:41:16 PM
Putting words in both me and Alf's mouths  ?

Tell me Angelo, have you had any experience in the field of removing illegal immigrants ? 8)-)))

Do you?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 12:46:59 PM
Do you?

Did I say I had ?

However, I do have common sense, and I have looked at the numbers involved and the logistics and expense involved at removing 500,00 +  people.

Have you ?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 12:49:19 PM
Absolutely.  Alf and Stephen would want to fill this country with foreigners which makes me question their motive.

I notice on the forum twitter account that almost 600 people have voted with 75% saying remove illegals, 15% don't remove them and 10% undecided.
Oh FFS.  The illegal immigrants are already here, I'm not suggesting importing 500000 MORE illegals. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 12:51:33 PM
Did I say I had ?

However, I do have common sense, and I have looked at the numbers involved and the logistics and expense involved at removing 500,00 +  people.

Have you ?

The cost is peanuts compared to opening the floodgates to even more which is what will happen if the UK government doesn't act decisively now that they have a mandate to do so.  With Theresa May as pm however I cannot see it happening.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 12:51:52 PM
Oh FFS.  The illegal immigrants are already here, I'm not suggesting importing 500000 MORE illegals.

Precisely Alf.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 12:52:35 PM
Oh FFS.  The illegal immigrants are already here, I'm not suggesting importing 500000 MORE illegals.

I'm glad to hear it.  Just to be clear, you would allow the illegals who are also criminals to stay here too?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 12:56:04 PM
Did I say I had ?

However, I do have common sense, and I have looked at the numbers involved and the logistics and expense involved at removing 500,00 +  people.

Have you ?

I am a realist.

If you try to expel half a million people who are actually currently living here, it will be chaos.  Virtually every case will end up with an appeal, the courts will be clogged up for years, and the expense will be simply immense.

Where will they be sent back to?  What if the regime is unsavoury and will persecute them?  Is there another country willing to accept a third country national? 

They are here, then they are our problem.  By definition working in the black economy.

The least worst solution is to legitimise them, allowing them to work in the normal economy, pay taxes etc.

Usual caveats about not encouraging yet more illegal immigration, expecting an amnesty so we need better security at points of entry. 

But in my view - while we are sorting out the piles of mess, add this one.   
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2016, 01:00:41 PM
I am a realist.

If you try to expel half a million people who are actually currently living here, it will be chaos.  Virtually every case will end up with an appeal, the courts will be clogged up for years, and the expense will be simply immense.

Where will they be sent back to?  What if the regime is unsavoury and will persecute them?  Is there another country willing to accept a third country national? 

They are here, then they are our problem.  By definition working in the black economy.

The least worst solution is to legitimise them, allowing them to work in the normal economy, pay taxes etc.

Usual caveats about not encouraging yet more illegal immigration, expecting an amnesty so we need better security at points of entry. 

But in my view - while we are sorting out the piles of mess, add this one.

The government can bring in legislation to deal with illegals and their deportation.  That was the whole point in getting out of the EU.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 01:04:39 PM
I am a realist.

If you try to expel half a million people who are actually currently living here, it will be chaos.  Virtually every case will end up with an appeal, the courts will be clogged up for years, and the expense will be simply immense.

Where will they be sent back to?  What if the regime is unsavoury and will persecute them?  Is there another country willing to accept a third country national? 

They are here, then they are our problem.  By definition working in the black economy.

The least worst solution is to legitimise them, allowing them to work in the normal economy, pay taxes etc.

Usual caveats about not encouraging yet more illegal immigration, expecting an amnesty so we need better security at points of entry. 

But in my view - while we are sorting out the piles of mess, add this one.

apart from anything else everyone of them will then be entitled to bring their family to the UK...absolutely barmy
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 01:07:20 PM
Oh FFS.  The illegal immigrants are already here, I'm not suggesting importing 500000 MORE illegals.

if they are bringing their family it could be another 2 million all entitled to benefits...housing...healthcare ..education
..controlled immigration is the only way forward
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 01:07:59 PM
The government can bring in legislation to deal with illegals and their deportation.  That was the whole point in getting out of the EU.

...and you really think they are going to do that ?


 *&*%£
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 01:23:24 PM
The government can bring in legislation to deal with illegals and their deportation.  That was the whole point in getting out of the EU.

The legislation relating to illegal immigration already exists.  It is independent of any EU legislation. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 01:27:11 PM
I'm glad to hear it.  Just to be clear, you would allow the illegals who are also criminals to stay here too?
Would I?  You seem to think I would, what does it matter what I say? 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 01:38:51 PM
The legislation relating to illegal immigration already exists.  It is independent of any EU legislation.

Minor point J-P  ?{)(**
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/what-are-eu-migrants-entitled-terms-benefits-and-housing-and-when

"The employment rate for non-UK born workers is 70 per cent, compared to the 73.2 per cent of UK born workers. The employment rate for EU nationals living in the UK is 79 per cent. This is according to the latest figures, from the April-June 2014 Labour Force Survey".
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 01:42:34 PM
Minor point J-P  ?{)(**
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/what-are-eu-migrants-entitled-terms-benefits-and-housing-and-when

"The employment rate for non-UK born workers is 70 per cent, compared to the 73.2 per cent of UK born workers. The employment rate for EU nationals living in the UK is 79 per cent. This is according to the latest figures, from the April-June 2014 Labour Force Survey".

There is another question - how many EU citizens are in the UK illegally? 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 02:09:47 PM
There is another question - how many EU citizens are in the UK illegally?

I'll pass on that one and leave it to others to respond.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 02:26:58 PM
I'm glad to hear it.  Just to be clear, you would allow the illegals who are also criminals to stay here too?

Can you remember the Scots guy who emigrated to Australia then got banged up for some child sex offence. He never took out Aussie citizenship.
When he was released the Aussies shot him back here so fast it made his head spin.... here you go Poms have the bludger back. Apart from it being somewhat ironic in the direction of transportation; way to go. Them Aussies could teach UK a thing or three. Like how to play the rules to your advantage, remember this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDuMudvbuqI
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 02:28:13 PM
There is another question - how many EU citizens are in the UK illegally?

Not sure what you mean JP, is there such a category?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 05:36:31 PM
Not sure what you mean JP, is there such a category?

Illegal immigration has been raised as a part of the EU referendum debate, looking back to the OP on this thread.  It has actually got bu66er all to do with the EU, so I am puzzled as to how it has become conflated with EU maters.   
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 05:41:46 PM
Illegal immigration has been raised as a part of the EU referendum debate, looking back to the OP on this thread.  It has actually got bu66er all to do with the EU, so I am puzzled as to how it has become conflated with EU maters.   

Easily it would seem and unnoticed by most.................... &%+((£     8(0(*
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 05:44:18 PM
Easily it would seem and unnoticed by most.................... &%+((£     8(0(*

Angela Merkel welcoming illegal immigrants into the EU did seem to have been one of the catalysts for the debate
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 05:59:37 PM
Illegal immigration has been raised as a part of the EU referendum debate, looking back to the OP on this thread.  It has actually got bu66er all to do with the EU, so I am puzzled as to how it has become conflated with EU maters.   

It's really simple, as it stands in many instances, the UK cannot repatriate illegals because of the Human Rights Act which has gone far beyond that envisaged.  Remember David Cameron saying he would replace the HRA with a Bill of Rights?  Looks like he won't be doing that now but Andrea Leadsom is on record saying illegal migrants can be repatriated.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3659175.ece
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 06:02:28 PM
Angela Merkel welcoming illegal immigrants into the EU did seem to have been one of the catalysts for the debate

Asylum seekers, fleeing from a brutal regime in Syria.

But no doubt they should have been sent back from whence they came.

Where is that vomit emoticon.   
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 06:06:29 PM
It's really simple, as it stands in many instances, the UK cannot repatriate illegals because of the Human Rights Act which has gone far beyond that envisaged.  Remember David Cameron saying he would replace the HRA with a Bill of Rights?  Looks like he won't be doing that now but Andrea Leadsom is on record saying illegal migrants can be repatriated.

It may have slipped your memory that the ECHR is NOT an EU institution.  Leaving the EU will not remove our obligations to the ECHR.  So those who voted leave on that basis are going to be a bit disappointed. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 06:12:01 PM
It may have slipped your memory that the ECHR is NOT an EU institution.  Leaving the EU will not remove our obligations to the ECHR.  So those who voted leave on that basis are going to be a bit disappointed.

That's easily sorted.  In a speech a few months back, Home Secretary Theresa May proposed that the UK should dump the Human Rights Act  Now that #brexit is imminent it shouldn't be that difficult.  The sooner we dump all these European institutions the better.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 06:21:04 PM
That's easily sorted.  In a speech a few months back, Home Secretary Theresa May proposed that the UK should dump the Human Rights Act.  Now that #brexit is imminent it shouldn't be that difficult.  The sooner we dump all these European institutions the better.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/25/uk-must-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-theresa-may-eu-referendum

And what would it be replaced with? 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 06:27:57 PM
And what would it be replaced with?

A Bill of Rights of course or whatever other fancy name they want to give it.  Laws in the UK should be tailored to our culture and traditions as it was prior to all this European crap.

And whilst we're at it we should ensure that Laws in England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland are the same.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 30, 2016, 06:31:11 PM
Angela Merkel welcoming illegal immigrants into the EU did seem to have been one of the catalysts for the debate

Would you care to elaborate on that ?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on June 30, 2016, 06:32:11 PM
A Bill of Rights of course or whatever other fancy name they want to give it.

Right.  So the bill guaranteeing rights of those who may be oppressed by the government will be drawn up by the government?  Is that it?

OK. 

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 06:33:34 PM
A Bill of Rights of course or whatever other fancy name they want to give it.  Laws in the UK should be tailored to our culture and traditions as it was prior to all this European crap.

And whilst we're at it we should ensure that Laws in England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland are the same.
It's always been part of our culture and tradition to welcome immigrants and refugees from persecution in other countries, so....?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 06:34:52 PM
Angela Merkel welcoming illegal immigrants into the EU did seem to have been one of the catalysts for the debate
Illegal immigrants or refugees?  Or are they all the same thing as far as you're concerned?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 06:42:40 PM
It's always been part of our culture and tradition to welcome immigrants and refugees from persecution in other countries, so....?

It still is but all things in moderation.  Refugees fleeing Syria should seek asylum in the first safe country they come to.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 06:50:46 PM
It still is but all things in moderation.  Refugees fleeing Syria should seek asylum in the first safe country they come to.
That let's us off the hook then.  Unless the French or the Americans ever need to flee persecution in their own countries.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 06:57:36 PM
Latest poll of over 1000 people today suggests most people (77%) say no to an amnesty for illegal immigrants.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 07:34:42 PM
It may have slipped your memory that the ECHR is NOT an EU institution.  Leaving the EU will not remove our obligations to the ECHR.  So those who voted leave on that basis are going to be a bit disappointed.

That has been explained before J.P.

Sometimes though, the message doesn't get through.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on June 30, 2016, 07:37:26 PM
A Bill of Rights of course or whatever other fancy name they want to give it.  Laws in the UK should be tailored to our culture and traditions as it was prior to all this European crap.

And whilst we're at it we should ensure that Laws in England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland are the same.

You should check your history John.

The Human Rights Act and what followed it date back to the aftermath of the Second World War.

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 09:32:37 PM
You should check your history John.

The Human Rights Act and what followed it date back to the aftermath of the Second World War.

David Cameron has always wanted to replace the HRA with a Bill of Rights.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 09:43:37 PM
Asylum seekers, fleeing from a brutal regime in Syria.

But no doubt they should have been sent back from whence they came.

Where is that vomit emoticon.   
the feeling re the vomit emoticon is mutual...so what percentage of the illegals are fleeing Syria...please tell us all. it is rather difficult to tell when they have torn their passports up...we certainly know some are from Pakistan and Afganistan and I believe the young 25 yr old boy who murdered the young Sweedish girl who was trying to help them was from Somalia.
It's a shame they can't show some thanks when they arrive and behave themselves rather than terrorise young women with their sexual assaults.

good to see some of them have rejected Islam and turned to Christ and are being baptised.....the fact that it stops them being sent back home  shows christ is looking after them.

perhaps if we stopped unemployed or very low skill Europeans coming into the country we could in fact help more of the genuine refugees.....

Lastly of course we have the problem that it is quite probable that some of those being welcomed are terrorists....


Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 09:54:44 PM
"It is also clear there was no public appetite for an amnesty of the kind mooted. A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times in January 2012 found that 67% believe that illegal immigrants should be deported immediately with no right of appeal"
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on June 30, 2016, 09:58:50 PM
A recent report, whilst describing an amnesty on illegals as "an appallingly bad idea" also recognised that

"it is clearly impossible to deport half a million people. It is, however, possible to discourage an illegal existence in Britain. Fines against employers for employing illegal workers should be much more vigorously enforced. Action should also be taken against those who provide accommodation for illegal immigrants. These measures, combined with the development of electronic border checking, should progressively reduce the scale of illegal immigration in Britain.

Commenting, Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migration Watch UK said “The problem of illegal immigration has to be tackled if opportunities for young people in Britain are to be improved. A situation in which nearly a quarter of young Londoners, and about half of young black Londoners, are unemployed simply cannot be allowed to continue. Amnesties are an appallingly bad idea. They have been a total failure in Italy and Spain; they have just sucked in more and more illegals. It is highly irresponsible to suggest that an amnesty in the UK is inevitable – especially in a country that is believed to be a major source of illegal immigrants,” he said."
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 10:03:14 PM
A recent report, whilst describing an amnesty on illegals as "an appallingly bad idea" also recognised that

"it is clearly impossible to deport half a million people. It is, however, possible to discourage an illegal existence in Britain. Fines against employers for employing illegal workers should be much more vigorously enforced. Action should also be taken against those who provide accommodation for illegal immigrants. These measures, combined with the development of electronic border checking, should progressively reduce the scale of illegal immigration in Britain.

Commenting, Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migration Watch UK said “The problem of illegal immigration has to be tackled if opportunities for young people in Britain are to be improved. A situation in which nearly a quarter of young Londoners, and about half of young black Londoners, are unemployed simply cannot be allowed to continue. Amnesties are an appallingly bad idea. They have been a total failure in Italy and Spain; they have just sucked in more and more illegals. It is highly irresponsible to suggest that an amnesty in the UK is inevitable – especially in a country that is believed to be a major source of illegal immigrants,” he said."

some sanity at last
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 10:39:31 PM
Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?

This question was raised again recently as part of the pre referendum debate.  Boris Johnson suggested that an amnesty for the estimated 500,000 illegal immigrants in the UK, most of whom can be found in London, would be the humane thing to do.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-illegal-immigrants-immigration-amnesty-eu-referendum-vote-leave-a7090246.html

We opened up this question on twitter today, follow the result below.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120

What do you think?


50

You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....the UK is already a multiculteral multi faith multi ethnic country, nothng is going to change this
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: G-Unit on June 30, 2016, 10:41:40 PM
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.



Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 10:49:58 PM
You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....
yes its  a terrible idea
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 10:53:24 PM
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.

are you aware that china invaded Tibet in the 50's and killed a million people....are still there now....arrested and held...and still holding the youngest political prisoner in the world....aged 5 when arrested.....and we can't say a word because it would upset the chinese...we cannot heal the whole world
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on June 30, 2016, 10:53:43 PM
Whatever we do people need to understand why there's so much desperation in the world. It won't stop until everyone has a fair chance of living a peaceful, settled and reasonable life wherever they happen to be born.
Indeed and it doesnt help when british prime ministers unleash the hounds of war (and worse based on lies) and destablise for decades a whole region, even more than it was originally, well,isnt karma a bitch

Question time beckons, very interesting it should be
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on June 30, 2016, 10:56:02 PM
Indeed and it doesnt help when british prime ministers unleash the hounds of war and destablise for decades a whole region, even more than it was originally, well,isnt karma a bitch

#I would agree with that
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on June 30, 2016, 11:09:42 PM
You need to start with a legal definition of "illegal immigrant"

Eta of course you and I the whole country including frightened kids all know the "immigration problem" goes far beyond "illegal immigrants"

An amnesty to desperate non criminal people willing to work for their living contribute and integrate is not such a terrible idea....the UK is already a multiculteral multi faith multi ethnic country, nothng is going to change this

The Definition of an Illegal Immigrant

An illegal immigrant is a non-EU national who has entered the UK without leave or has overstayed his leave.


The Size of the Illegal Immigrant Population in the UK

By its nature, illegal immigration is very difficult to measure. The Census does not record the immigration status of respondents and the removal of the remaining exit checks in 1998 has meant that, since then, it has been impossible to determine who is still in the country.

The Government has long shied away from attempting to estimate the illegal immigrant population of the UK. In 2005 however, the Home Office commissioned a report which estimated that in 2001 the population of illegal immigrants in the UK was approximately 430,000, excluding the UK born children of illegal immigrants.

In 2009, the London School of Economics produced an estimate of the illegal immigrant population in 2007; they suggested a central figure of 670,000 using a similar methodology to the 2005 estimate. They suggested that three factors would have affected the size of the illegal immigrant population between 2005 and 2007:

    Some of the continued inflow of asylum seekers would have been refused asylum and therefore become illegal immigrants
    More immigrants would have overstayed their visas. These two factors would have increased the size of the illegal population.
    Meanwhile the regularisation of some previously illegal immigrants would have reduced the total.

In 2010 Migration Watch UK estimated the illegal immigrant population at 1.1million (see here). It is very likely that, in the five years since that estimate was produced, the number has continued to increase.

The government has now reintroduced exit checks which will allow the authorities to know, from hereon, who has left the country and who remains.
How can an illegal immigrant obtain the right to remain in the UK?

Some people have had their immigration status “regularised”, meaning that they go from being an illegal immigrant with no right to remain to being a legal migrant with either temporary or indefinite leave to remain. The immigration rules set out the grounds under which an individual has a right to remain in relation to Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. There were around 20,000 grants under the Article 8 ‘family life’ route in the year to June 2015 and a further 2,000 under the Article 8 ‘private life’ route. In addition to these routes the Home Office also issued around 12,000 grants of leave to remain on a discretionary basis on ‘compassionate grounds’.
Obstacles to Enforcement

The number of illegal immigrants removed from the UK is very low in comparison to the size of their population. In 2013 the UK authorities removed 3,800 immigration offenders, 4,670 Foreign National Offenders and 4,840 failed asylum cases.

There is a great deal of public support for removing people that are in the UK illegally: a 2014 poll found that 84% want to see stronger action taken to remove illegal immigrants. One of the major obstacles is the underfunding of immigration enforcement. In the year 2014/15, the total budget for immigration control was £1.8 billion which was around 0.25% of total government expenditure of £700 billion.

Another major impediment is the size of the detention estate. At present only around 3,500 can be held in detention at any one time. This is clearly inadequate compared to the size of the illegal immigrant population.

The lack of return agreements between the UK and source countries is a further obstacle. Unfortunately, it is often those countries that are a major source if illegal immigrants with which the UK does not have an agreement. A returns agreement is one whereby two countries agree to return their nationals to each other when they are found illegally in each other’s territory.

At present the UK does not have an agreement with either Brazil or India, both of which are thought to be significant sources of illegal migration to the UK.

Another factor that further complicates the returns process is a lack of documentation. Some illegal immigrants will not have had documents i.e. a passport, when they arrived while others will have purposely destroyed their documents in order to frustrate the returns process.

Updated September 2015

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/illegal-immigration
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: G-Unit on June 30, 2016, 11:15:01 PM
are you aware that china invaded Tibet in the 50's and killed a million people....are still there now....arrested and held...and still holding the youngest political prisoner in the world....aged 5 when arrested.....and we can't say a word because it would upset the chinese...we cannot heal the whole world

I agree it's a big subject. What is usually true is that the power resides with the people because of their numbers. It's the leaders who exercise it though. If they exercise it wrongly the people need to understand that and work to change those leaders in whatever way they can.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on July 01, 2016, 12:19:47 AM
Thanks for that.
It appears the govt cant be bothered or isnt able to stop this.

I dont believe half a million or more have come into the uk on trucks, so what is uk border control doing or rather not doing and why

Perhaps a stricter control and clearer laws might help


Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 01, 2016, 11:33:58 AM
Final result on our 24-hour snap poll on twitter.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 01, 2016, 01:23:41 PM
Thanks for that.
It appears the govt cant be bothered or isnt able to stop this.

I dont believe half a million or more have come into the uk on trucks, so what is uk border control doing or rather not doing and why

Perhaps a stricter control and clearer laws might help

The border checks are basic, they only stop and search the very odd truck.  There are groups based in London who are solely concerned with bringing illegals into the capital.  Occasionally they are detected and caught but it is usually down to sharp eyed mermbers of the public.  Some estimates put the number of illegals and overstayers in the UK at well over million. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Myster on July 01, 2016, 01:35:44 PM
The border checks are basic, they only stop and search the very odd truck.  There are groups based in London who are solely concerned with bringing illegals into the capital.  Occasionally they are detected and caught but it is usually down to sharp eyed mermbers of the public.  Some estimates put the number of illegals and overstayers in the UK at well over million.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3669532/Astonished-motorist-finds-12-asylum-seekers-hidden-lorry-hearing-banging-inside-vehicle-motorway-service-station.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3669532/Astonished-motorist-finds-12-asylum-seekers-hidden-lorry-hearing-banging-inside-vehicle-motorway-service-station.html)
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 01, 2016, 07:11:29 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3669532/Astonished-motorist-finds-12-asylum-seekers-hidden-lorry-hearing-banging-inside-vehicle-motorway-service-station.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3669532/Astonished-motorist-finds-12-asylum-seekers-hidden-lorry-hearing-banging-inside-vehicle-motorway-service-station.html)

Most are found by accident, the current border controls at Hull, Dover and Folkestone are wholly inadequate.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on July 01, 2016, 11:43:17 PM
The border checks are basic, they only stop and search the very odd truck.  There are groups based in London who are solely concerned with bringing illegals into the capital.  Occasionally they are detected and caught but it is usually down to sharp eyed mermbers of the public.  Some estimates put the number of illegals and overstayers in the UK at well over million.

If the authorities have behaved lazily then they have no right to complain
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 10:13:43 AM
Not quite in line with the justice forum poll.

http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/15131/
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on July 03, 2016, 10:15:53 AM
Most are found by accident, the current border controls at Hull, Dover and Folkestone are wholly inadequate.

Not to mention the Essex and East Anglian coast lines being a leaky sieve!

or as leaky as a sieve even.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 03, 2016, 05:37:54 PM
Not quite in line with the justice forum poll.

http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/15131/

EU migrants are not illegals Stephen.  I thought you had realised that by now?

Result of our 24-hour poll in which 1,328 people voted shows overwhelmingly by 80% that there should be no amnesty for illegals.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/748439187423109120
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 05:43:23 PM
EU migrants are not illegals Stephen.  I thought you had realised that by now?

I thought you would not get the point.


There are also illegal migrants from the EU.


It seems you have not considered in any depth the problems of logistics, expense and time in removing those you consider illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 03, 2016, 05:51:42 PM
I thought you would not get the point.


There are also illegal migrants from the EU.


It seems you have not considered in any depth the problems of logistics, expense and time in removing those you consider illegal immigrants.

An EU migrant and a migrant from the EU are two completely different things.  The former being an EU citizen, the later not.

You are beginning to sound like davel now.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 03, 2016, 06:07:34 PM
An EU migrant and a migrant from the EU are two completely different things.  The former being an EU citizen, the later not.

You are beginning to sound like davel now.

Hardly.

Can you provide the details of how all illegal immigrants, which some figures indicate could be in excess of 1,000,000, would be repatriated.

Now that would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on July 04, 2016, 05:26:23 PM
Asylum seekers, fleeing from a brutal regime in Syria.

But no doubt they should have been sent back from whence they came.

Where is that vomit emoticon.   

A leaked report into a surge in sex crimes by immigrants at German public swimming pools is a 'grave concern', according to officials.
The secret report's authenticity has been confirmed by the authorities in Dusseldorf which outlines the particular worry over rapes and sexual abuse of children.
It comes just months after the nightmare scenes in Cologne on New Year's Eve when hundreds of women were sexually abused by marauding gangs of migrants and less than a month since an Iraqi migrant was jailed for raping a 10-year-old boy in an Austrian swimming pool.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3673302/Leaked-German-sex-crime-report-confirms-surge-child-rapes-migrants.html#ixzz4DSOXBXsG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 12:17:55 AM
Hardly.

Can you provide the details of how all illegal immigrants, which some figures indicate could be in excess of 1,000,000, would be repatriated.

Now that would be interesting to see.

The same way they are dealt with presently.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 07, 2016, 08:43:05 AM
The same way they are dealt with presently.

With the estimated numbers up to and possibly over a million, that will prove interesting to see.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 09:31:49 AM

Illegal Immigration | Key Topics

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/illegal-immigration
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 12:36:49 PM
Repatriation does not have to be by forceful means.  Some will be encouraged to go home with a little incentive in their pockets and a signed undertaking never to return.

Norway offers to pay asylum seekers £1000 bonus to leave the country

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/04/26/norway-migrants-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpg)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/norway-to-pay-asylum-seekers-extra-money-to-leave/
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 07, 2016, 12:42:08 PM
Repatriation does not have to be by forceful means.  Some will be encouraged to go home with a little incentive in their pockets and a signed undertaking never to return.

Norway offers to pay asylum seekers £1000 bonus to leave the country

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/04/26/norway-migrants-large_trans++qVzuuqpFlyLIwiB6NTmJwfSVWeZ_vEN7c6bHu2jJnT8.jpg)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/norway-to-pay-asylum-seekers-extra-money-to-leave/

That sum has been on offer in this country.

There is still the inherent problem, if the countries of origin refuse to accept people back.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 01:21:37 PM
That sum has been on offer in this country.

There is still the inherent problem, if the countries of origin refuse to accept people back.

Short of sticking them on a cattle boat there is always a way.


EU plans extra billion euros to pay African countries to take back migrants

Money would be used to encourage home states to repatriate citizens who fail to gain asylum when they arrive in Europe.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03423/migrant-rail_3423610b.jpg)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11833285/EU-plans-extra-billion-euros-to-pay-African-countries-to-take-back-migrants.html
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 07, 2016, 01:26:59 PM
Short of sticking them on a cattle boat there is always a way.


EU plans extra billion euros to pay African countries to take back migrants

Money would be used to encourage home states to repatriate citizens who fail to gain asylum when they arrive in Europe.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03423/migrant-rail_3423610b.jpg)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11833285/EU-plans-extra-billion-euros-to-pay-African-countries-to-take-back-migrants.html
That's the EU.  We're not in the EU anymore so we'd have to pay for that ourselves!
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 07, 2016, 01:42:48 PM
That's the EU.  We're not in the EU anymore so we'd have to pay for that ourselves!

And how many more foreigners would have to be recruited to the UK authorities to deal with this?

If the press rumours are correct (which they may not be), the civil service isn't even equipped to deal with the complexities of trade negotiations, let alone anything else...


Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 01:43:09 PM
That's the EU.  We're not in the EU anymore so we'd have to pay for that ourselves!

Voluntary repatriation could well be cheaper than enforced repatriation in the long run.

The current trend appears to promote voluntary repatriation.  The site below contains several interesting graphs.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/deportations-removals-and-voluntary-departures-uk
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 07, 2016, 02:19:28 PM
Hmm.  "Here's £1000 to go back to that shit-hole you were born in, the city that has been razed to the ground, where you're life is in constant danger and there's no likelihood of you earning a wage anytime soon"

"Oh how jolly decent of you, I shall pack my bags and be off then!"

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 07, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Hmm.  "Here's £1000 to go back to that shit-hole you were born in, the city that has been razed to the ground, where you're life is in constant danger and there's no likelihood of you earning a wage anytime soon"

"Oh how jolly decent of you, I shall pack my bags and be off then!"

Succinctly put Alfie.

After all, how many immigrants, illegal or otherwise could refuse such a generous offer.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 07, 2016, 02:51:56 PM
Hmm.  "Here's £1000 to go back to that shit-hole you were born in, the city that has been razed to the ground, where you're life is in constant danger and there's no likelihood of you earning a wage anytime soon"

"Oh how jolly decent of you, I shall pack my bags and be off then!"

They probably would take it knowing that they could then go knock at someone else's door next time.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 07, 2016, 03:20:10 PM
They probably would take it knowing that they could then go knock at someone else's door next time.
Why would they, if they had a job and a nice life here already?  Would you, in their shoes??
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on July 08, 2016, 12:11:40 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07k77md/daily-politics-07072016

From 48 mins

About eu migrants

NO one is going to deport them

I know it may be the wrong thread, but I lost track as the threads kind of merged at times and cant find who last mentioned it
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Hmm.  "Here's £1000 to go back to that shit-hole you were born in, the city that has been razed to the ground, where you're life is in constant danger and there's no likelihood of you earning a wage anytime soon"

"Oh how jolly decent of you, I shall pack my bags and be off then!"

...and so they come over here and create the same situations-in fighting-their own brand of racism, crime and add nothing to our culture at all. Let's love them all...

London?"the city that has been razed to the ground, where you're life is in constant danger and there's no likelihood of you earning a wage anytime soon"
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 06:03:11 PM
Why would they, if they had a job and a nice life here already?  Would you, in their shoes??

They all have jobs and nice lives? OK The illegal immigrants could be shipped across the channel to France  as Germany wants them all. 8(>(( According to Mummy Merkel.

Seriously you do know that illegal immigrants are not allowed to work? they get everything FREE. you would not believe how much money is spent on one family per week.  meanwhile white scroungers on benefit, who had the audacity to be made redundant or are finding it difficult to find a job are kicked to the kerb. Oh we should send them lazy whities to Africa and keep the hard working honest illegal immigrants?




Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 06:18:24 PM
WE have  a mass of talent in this country but for so long we have pandered to the  lets have quotas and embrace multiculturalism..... well it is time to keep our home grown talent, encourage science,maths and other worth while subjects. We are treating our own people with utter contemp by suggesting we can't live or survive without immigrants. well lets put that to the test. All immigrants who have a science or can earn above 30k should be allowed to stay and others who can't support themselves can go. We don't want our cash to be spent on wasted people we should use  it,and spend it on those who are productive and hard working. Lets get our reward system back to where it used to be! It is outrageous that a Australian couple with 2 children earn over 65k per year have their own home, pay tax and other come from AFRICA to get free aids treatment, and free education, free housing..give nothing back. One 'family' has 17 members 5 single mothers, 12 houses...a financial drain.  why not apply for jobs and come over legally ike the Australian family?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 06:27:44 PM
They all have jobs and nice lives? OK The illegal immigrants could be shipped across the channel to France  as Germany wants them all. 8(>(( According to Mummy Merkel.

Seriously you do know that illegal immigrants are not allowed to work? they get everything FREE. you would not believe how much money is spent on one family per week.  meanwhile white scroungers on benefit, who had the audacity to be made redundant or are finding it difficult to find a job are kicked to the kerb. Oh we should send them lazy whities to Africa and keep the hard working honest illegal immigrants?

Are you sure that you're not confusing illegal immigrants, asylum-seekers and legal migrants?

What do you mean by "whities", btw?

Why don't some of the native benefit scroungers (the real scroungers, à la Philpot) go pick strawberries?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36702235
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 06:32:50 PM
WE have  a mass of talent in this country but for so long we have pandered to the  lets have quotas and embrace multiculturalism..... well it is time to keep our home grown talent, encourage science,maths and other worth while subjects. We are treating our own people with utter contemp by suggesting we can't live or survive without immigrants. well lets put that to the test. All immigrants who have a science or can earn above 30k should be allowed to stay and others who can't support themselves can go. We don't want our cash to be spent on wasted people we should use  it,and spend it on those who are productive and hard working. Lets get our reward system back to where it used to be! It is outrageous that a Australian couple with 2 children earn over 65k per year have their own home, pay tax and other come from AFRICA to get free aids treatment, and free education, free housing..give nothing back. One 'family' has 17 members 5 single mothers, 12 houses...a financial drain.  why not apply for jobs and come over legally ike the Australian family?

There are abuses in every system and I'm not sure which cases you are referring to.

And if you do find cites from reliable sources, perhaps you could also compare those cases to the statistics of the overall legal migrant contribution to the economy.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 07:00:56 PM
There are abuses in every system and I'm not sure which cases you are referring to.

And if you do find cites from reliable sources, perhaps you could also compare those cases to the statistics of the overall legal migrant contribution to the economy.

It is my observation on a particular community. re the stats; there are none availiabe that can be trusted. re illegal immigrants who have presented themselves has one figure but those still at large are not counted.

As I have stated illegal immigrants are not allowed to work!  so contribute zero.  It is also worth remebering that the stats for 'working immigrants' working part time and claiming tax credits and child benefit  are not counted at net beneficiaries even thiough they are! so not that great a contribution in the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 07:10:33 PM
It is my observation on a particular community. re the stats; there are none availiabe that can be trusted. re illegal immigrants who have presented themselves has one figure but those still at large are not counted.

As I have stated illegal immigrants are not allowed to work!  so contribute zero.  It is also worth remebering that the stats for 'working immigrants' working part time and claiming tax credits and child benefit  are not counted at net beneficiaries even thiough they are! so not that great a contribution in the bigger picture.

Asylum seekers are not generally allowed to work (and that applies to other countries).

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01908

By definition, statistics are hard to find about illegal immigrants as they tend to be paid cash in hand.

Working legal migrants pay taxes and contributions like everyone else.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Are you sure that you're not confusing illegal immigrants, asylum-seekers and legal migrants?

What do you mean by "whities", btw?

Why don't some of the native benefit scroungers (the real scroungers, à la Philpot) go pick strawberries?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36702235

I am not the confused one. You with others are being conned. Asylum seekers are failed illegal immigrants who get caught-dontcha know! We are almost bankrupt, there is not enough to go round. We need to deal with our own issues without running around the globe causing wars and then encouraging a slave trade..oh you don't want to hear about that industry. Way to horrific for you I fear.

 Whities are white skinned people who have no real say in their country due to being silenced, riduculed,undermined by multicultural luvvies. Whities are evil, nasty according to some. However  they are a wee bit miffed because they are suffering hardship while others are under the impression the UK is a rich country- we are borrowing billions just to give to African countries  starving children dictators a nice life thank you very much.

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 09, 2016, 07:15:27 PM
Asylum seekers are not generally allowed to work (and that applies to other countries).

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01908

By definition, statistics are hard to find about illegal immigrants as they tend to be paid cash in hand.

Working legal migrants pay taxes and contributions like everyone else.

Not the ones here for 'free' education or the café waitreses claiming tax credits... please do keep up. Many legal migrants have applied for work and came here for that purpose- they should be able to support themselves without hand outs. or are you against that idea?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 07:29:21 PM
Not the ones here for 'free' education or the café waitreses claiming tax credits... please do keep up. Many legal migrants have applied for work and came here for that purpose- they should be able to support themselves without hand outs. or are you against that idea?

How would one claim tax credits without being a tax-payer?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 08:03:13 PM
I am not the confused one. You with others are being conned. Asylum seekers are failed illegal immigrants who get caught-dontcha know! We are almost bankrupt, there is not enough to go round. We need to deal with our own issues without running around the globe causing wars and then encouraging a slave trade..oh you don't want to hear about that industry. Way to horrific for you I fear.

 Whities are white skinned people who have no real say in their country due to being silenced, riduculed,undermined by multicultural luvvies. Whities are evil, nasty according to some. However  they are a wee bit miffed because they are suffering hardship while others are under the impression the UK is a rich country- we are borrowing billions just to give to African countries  starving children dictators a nice life thank you very much.

I think you're sailing a bit close to the wind, there, MTI.

I see that my previous response to you has been deleted.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 09, 2016, 08:27:59 PM
Why would they, if they had a job and a nice life here already?  Would you, in their shoes??

Illegal immigrants are as the name suggests, illegal.  They have no right to be in the UK never mind work there.  As illegals, they work illegally in businesses operated illegally by others who could well be illegals too.  As illegals they pay no taxes or national insurance contributions since they operate in an underground environment. The vast majority of these people reside in cities like London and hide in communities of their own ilk where detection is highly unlikely.  These ghettos are increasing in number, there are actually areas in our cities where agencies like the Borders Agency find it almost impossible to work in.  Patrols are routinely targeted when they move in to extract these illegals.  Welcome to the 21st century in the UK.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/25/20/2AD6389500000578-0-image-m-19_1437852493275.jpg)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3174610/Welcome-East-London-gang-slashes-tyres-immigration-raid-van-officers-showered-eggs-high-rise.html
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 09, 2016, 08:56:32 PM
I am not the confused one. You with others are being conned. Asylum seekers are failed illegal immigrants who get caught-dontcha know! We are almost bankrupt, there is not enough to go round. We need to deal with our own issues without running around the globe causing wars and then encouraging a slave trade..oh you don't want to hear about that industry. Way to horrific for you I fear.

 Whities are white skinned people who have no real say in their country due to being silenced, riduculed,undermined by multicultural luvvies. Whities are evil, nasty according to some. However  they are a wee bit miffed because they are suffering hardship while others are under the impression the UK is a rich country- we are borrowing billions just to give to African countries  starving children dictators a nice life thank you very much.

Are you saying that people of white skin should be the only people in the UK? If that's not what you mean, perhaps you could clarify...
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 09, 2016, 09:31:34 PM
Are you saying that people of white skin should be the only people in the UK? If that's not what you mean, perhaps you could clarify...

If this were implemented there would be a 100% decrease in race related crime in this country.

Which can't be a bad thing can it.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: misty on July 09, 2016, 10:38:59 PM
If this were implemented there would be a 100% decrease in race related crime in this country.

Which can't be a bad thing can it.

Never going to happen. Even the makers of Cluedo are killing off Mrs White.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1lkEEmRCI
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 10, 2016, 11:58:44 AM
Are you saying that people of white skin should be the only people in the UK? If that's not what you mean, perhaps you could clarify...

What I am saying is: In india it is Indians who make the laws, collect tax and distribute the wealth for Indians, In Japan, China, Russia, Africa and many other places no white UK citizen has any say or power over the people in these countries, I have no problem with that. Do you have a problem with white people in the UK ( majority) having a say in who gets into their country and what laws should be discussed before being forced on them? Seriously  sounds a bit rascist to me. No one voted for EU as it has become, no one voted for multicultural society...so I am saying white people should have a say, since they are still the majority in this country, without being questioned and shouted down as racists.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 10, 2016, 01:22:50 PM
How would one claim tax credits without being a tax-payer?

The very fact that you are unaware of this makes me more determined to defy goody -two- shoes who love everybody and want everybody to live here regardless of their contribution.

 I am now of the impression  that you are totally ignorant on most benefit hand outs and are clueless on how our system works which makes you a not very good person to make descisions on immigration in it's many forms.  No offence intended Carana, but ignorance does breed contempt- which is what we have here in abundance in this country. Those unaffected by the mass immigration are quite happy to sit back and say well you there is no bread for the poor indigenous population-  just let them eat cake..  Marie Anottoinete response to poverty!

So at the last count how many 'Asylum seekers' have the  bob geldolfs and other sympathetic 'stars' getting on housing and feeding these 'poor' people from their own collection of houses and access to Money pits?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 10, 2016, 02:00:29 PM
How would one claim tax credits without being a tax-payer?

Tax Credits are based on income and dependents, not on tax paid.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on July 10, 2016, 02:11:41 PM
The very fact that you are unaware of this makes me more determined to defy goody -two- shoes who love everybody and want everybody to live here regardless of their contribution.

 I am now of the impression  that you are totally ignorant on most benefit hand outs and are clueless on how our system works which makes you a not very good person to make descisions on immigration in it's many forms.  No offence intended Carana, but ignorance does breed contempt- which is what we have here in abundance in this country. Those unaffected by the mass immigration are quite happy to sit back and say well you there is no bread for the poor indigenous population-  just let them eat cake..  Marie Anottoinete response to poverty!

So at the last count how many 'Asylum seekers' have the  bob geldolfs and other sympathetic 'stars' getting on housing and feeding these 'poor' people from their own collection of houses and access to Money pits?

On the subject of ignorance, the saying you attribute to Marie Antoinette was actually attributed to Marie Therese - wife of Louis XIV. 
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 10, 2016, 05:07:51 PM
The very fact that you are unaware of this makes me more determined to defy goody -two- shoes who love everybody and want everybody to live here regardless of their contribution.

 I am now of the impression  that you are totally ignorant on most benefit hand outs and are clueless on how our system works which makes you a not very good person to make descisions on immigration in it's many forms.  No offence intended Carana, but ignorance does breed contempt- which is what we have here in abundance in this country. Those unaffected by the mass immigration are quite happy to sit back and say well you there is no bread for the poor indigenous population-  just let them eat cake..  Marie Anottoinete response to poverty!

So at the last count how many 'Asylum seekers' have the  bob geldolfs and other sympathetic 'stars' getting on housing and feeding these 'poor' people from their own collection of houses and access to Money pits?


I don't want to have to pay for lazy opportunistic scroungers any more than you do.

I don't find that to be the issue.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on July 10, 2016, 05:12:25 PM


It seems the  issue isn't simply free movement but free access to our generous welfare system and in work benefits.
Do Norway offer migrants these benefits or do they simply have to offer free movement...this is a very important point
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 10, 2016, 05:27:43 PM

I don't want to have to pay for lazy opportunistic scroungers any more than you do.

I don't find that to be the issue.


Let's not forget the scroungers who already exist in this country and who take the system for a ride.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on July 10, 2016, 05:37:41 PM

Let's not forget the scroungers who already exist in this country and who take the system for a ride.
And you want to welcome more
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 02:04:51 PM

Let's not forget the scroungers who already exist in this country and who take the system for a ride.

Indeed Stephen. which is why we do not need to import any more. SImply because we can't afford it  food banks are not for the wealthy!
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 02:06:33 PM
Indeed Stephen. which is why we do not need to import any more. SImply because we can't afford it  food banks are not for the wealthy!

Who said i wanted more scroungers in this country ?

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Who said i wanted more scroungers in this country ?

You didn't say it Stephen, but you can't deny it is the main reason for illegal imigrants to flock to this country? and a valid reason for people to discuss this  and reject the claims of many remains that it is only hard working, great wonderful people who are coiming here, and do not feel the need to have a system of who we decide comes in and who must leave.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 02:44:44 PM
You didn't say it Stephen, but you can't deny it is the main reason for illegal imigrants to flock to this country? and a valid reason for people to discuss this  and reject the claims of many remains that it is only hard working, great wonderful people who are coiming here, and do not feel the need to have a system of who we decide comes in and who must leave.

The actual facts are that immigrants, EU and otherwise are net contributors to the UK economy.

Do you know any migrants from the EU working here ?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 03:35:22 PM
The actual facts are that immigrants, EU and otherwise are net contributors to the UK economy.

Do you know any migrants from the EU working here ?

I do infact know of a nursing home which had 17 British born, English speaking, qualified nurses and  4 admin staff, all tax paying and full time. within 2 years all were made redundant not recieving their final pay, or redundancy to be reopened THAT SAME DAY with immigrants all working part time all claiming tax credits and child benefit. This is not an isolated situation Stephen.  140 new houses were built for a local village to cater for an elderly population requiring ground level homes and young couples starting off married life .NOT one went to a local person.  So you see Stephen just beciase you have not been affected others have and are doing something about it.  What is it you are going to lose exactly by this out vote?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 03:43:29 PM
I do infact know of a nursing home which had 17 British born, English speaking, qualified nurses and  4 admin staff, all tax paying and full time. within 2 years all were made redundant not recieving their final pay, or redundancy to be reopened THAT SAME DAY with immigrants all working part time all claiming tax credits and child benefit. This is not an isolated situation Stephen.  140 new houses were built for a local village to cater for an elderly population requiring ground level homes and young couples starting off married life .NOT one went to a local person.  So you see Stephen just beciase you have not been affected others have and are doing something about it.  What is it you are going to lose exactly by this out vote?
That is hearsay, can you give a cite ?

Personally, I do not want to see the UK economy jeopardized merely on the back of rhetoric, and unproven promises of la-la land outside the EU.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
That is hearsay, can you give a cite ?

Personally, I do not want to see the UK economy jeopardized merely on the back of rhetoric, and unproven promises of la-la land outside the EU.

That is not heasay but please cover your ears and eyes if you do not want to see or hear. But anyway why don't you tell us how much we have paid in to the EU and what benefit we got back..now don't do that silly billy thing and forget to add on what we paid in THEN add what we got back from the begining... for example  If we paid in 10 quid and got 6 quid back to buy a specific item they said we should have...heehee
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 04:32:48 PM
That is not heasay but please cover your ears and eyes if you do not want to see or hear. But anyway why don't you tell us how much we have paid in to the EU and what benefit we got back..now don't do that silly billy thing and forget to add on what we paid in THEN add what we got back from the begining... for example  If we paid in 10 quid and got 6 quid back to buy a specific item they said we should have...heehee

You seem to have forgotten or deliberately omitted the benefits of being in the single market.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Davel on July 11, 2016, 04:39:33 PM
That is hearsay, can you give a cite ?

Personally, I do not want to see the UK economy jeopardized merely on the back of rhetoric, and unproven promises of la-la land outside the EU.

Your side lost the vote
You need to get over it
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
You seem to have forgotten or deliberately omitted the benefits of being in the single market.

No, we would have traded with them anyway, We are global traders, we used to have an empire, we know how to survive and thrive on our own and lets not forget it was France and Germany who were pushing for united states of Europe and this mess we have. They need us Stephen, and we need this.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 04:43:53 PM
No, we would have traded with them anyway, We are global traders, we used to have an empire, we know how to survive and thrive on our own and lets not forget it was France and Germany who were pushing for united states of Europe and this mess we have. They need us Stephen, and we need this.

The British Empire plundered other countries and their resources, material and otherwise.

It is about time some woke up to the reality that we share 1 planet with dwindling resources and with an expanding population.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 04:46:07 PM
Your side lost the vote
You need to get over it
Our side lost the vote.  We think it's a disaster for the country and we will speak our minds, whilst grudgingly accepting the country's choice.  Why should we be silent on the subject?  Do you honestly believe that if we'd voted to remain that the Eurosceptics would have "got over it"? 

Puh-lease.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 11, 2016, 05:08:18 PM
The British Empire plundered other countries and their resources, material and otherwise.

It is about time some woke up to the reality that we share 1 planet with dwindling resources and with an expanding population.


Well we also gave them money, buildings, education, and a whole lot more. I didn't say we were a 'nice' empire but we know how to fight for what we want and what we have, and what we don't want that was the point lol.

Expanding population in the UK is a grave concern of many. The rise in the population can be addressed by contraceptives, sadly some cultures don't ike that Idea...
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 11, 2016, 05:29:53 PM
No, we would have traded with them anyway, We are global traders, we used to have an empire, we know how to survive and thrive on our own and lets not forget it was France and Germany who were pushing for united states of Europe and this mess we have. They need us Stephen, and we need this.


"Used to have a global empire"... well yes, so dd many nations in dusty history books.

We're in 2016.

Could you elucidate your views as to how this situation will work in practice?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 11, 2016, 05:54:53 PM

"Used to have a global empire"... well yes, so dd many nations in dusty history books.

We're in 2016.

Could you elucidate your views as to how this situation will work in practice?

It seems Carana that some people are stuck in the past of some golden age, which existed for only a very few.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 11, 2016, 06:03:41 PM

"Used to have a global empire"... well yes, so dd many nations in dusty history books.

We're in 2016.

Could you elucidate your views as to how this situation will work in practice?

At a guess I'd say, it could work something like this....

We'll sell stuff to other countries......& ........ we'll buy stuff from other countries......  & planet earth will continue to rotate, whilst orbiting the sun, & we'll all end up as dust, regardless of how many flags fly in Brussels.



Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 11, 2016, 09:51:06 PM
Our side lost the vote.  We think it's a disaster for the country and we will speak our minds, whilst grudgingly accepting the country's choice.  Why should we be silent on the subject?  Do you honestly believe that if we'd voted to remain that the Eurosceptics would have "got over it"? 

Puh-lease.

The only people who are going to find it tougher after Brexit are Financial Services workers or Investment Bankers based in London who have been ripping the rest of us off for decades protected by successive administrations with their own vested interests. 

And no amnesty for illegals, send them packing regardless of the cost or the means.  There is now an industry in London whereby illegals are bringing other illegals into the country to do menial jobs for peanuts and protection.  Under EU Law they know the chances of being deported if caught are slim.  Time to change all that, take back control, send the illegal immigrants home.

Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on July 11, 2016, 10:55:12 PM
The only people who are going to find it tougher after Brexit are Financial Services workers or Investment Bankers based in London who have been ripping the rest of us off for decades protected by successive administrations with their own vested interests. 

And no amnesty for illegals, send them packing regardless of the cost or the means.  There is now an industry in London whereby illegals are bringing other illegals into the country to do menial jobs for peanuts and protection.  Under EU Law they know the chances of being deported if caught are slim.  Time to change all that, take back control, send the illegal immigrants home.

Which EU law is that John?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 11, 2016, 11:09:56 PM
The only people who are going to find it tougher after Brexit are Financial Services workers or Investment Bankers based in London who have been ripping the rest of us off for decades protected by successive administrations with their own vested interests. 

And no amnesty for illegals, send them packing regardless of the cost or the means.  There is now an industry in London whereby illegals are bringing other illegals into the country to do menial jobs for peanuts and protection.  Under EU Law they know the chances of being deported if caught are slim.  Time to change all that, take back control, send the illegal immigrants home.
Empty words, clichéd epithets.  It's never going to happen.  But by the time that realisation has well and truly dawned a large proportion of leave voters will be kicking up the daisies anyway.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: mercury on July 11, 2016, 11:27:52 PM
The only people who are going to find it tougher after Brexit are Financial Services workers or Investment Bankers based in London who have been ripping the rest of us off for decades protected by successive administrations with their own vested interests. 

And no amnesty for illegals, send them packing regardless of the cost or the means.  There is now an industry in London whereby illegals are bringing other illegals into the country to do menial jobs for peanuts and protection.  Under EU Law they know the chances of being deported if caught are slim.  Time to change all that, take back control, send the illegal immigrants home.

But alot of thebrexiters have a problem with all immigrants
No legal immigrants are going to be deported
Deporting illegal ones has never happened much, what makes you think its gonna happen now?
The govt in the past has proved to be  schizophrenic in ths regard
Deporting people who were married to a British person and also who had a child, because they didnt quite earn enough (think the figure was 19k) and even though they claimed zero benefits

This countrys immgration policies are all over the shop
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 12, 2016, 02:24:03 AM
Which EU law is that John?

The Human Rights Act, the EU's great panacea.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 12, 2016, 02:25:09 AM
Empty words, clichéd epithets.  It's never going to happen.  But by the time that realisation has well and truly dawned a large proportion of leave voters will be kicking up the daisies anyway.

It's what most people in the country want, time will tell.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: John on July 12, 2016, 02:28:34 AM
But alot of thebrexiters have a problem with all immigrants
No legal immigrants are going to be deported
Deporting illegal ones has never happened much, what makes you think its gonna happen now?
The govt in the past has proved to be  schizophrenic in ths regard
Deporting people who were married to a British person and also who had a child, because they didnt quite earn enough (think the figure was 19k) and even though they claimed zero benefits

This countrys immgration policies are all over the shop


I agree but much of the failure had to do with abuse of the Human Rights Act by smartarse London lawyers who used every bleddin heart excuse in the book to stop deportations.   It is up to Theresa May to bring in a Bill of Rights tailored to the British citizen, his traditions and values.  It's time this Sharia Law piss and everything which comes with it was put down the toilet once and for all!

These clowns who come across the English Channel illegally know that as it stands at the moment they will not be sent back to where they originated.  They are not refugees, they are economic chancers encouraged to come to London by other economic chancers who are already there and so the cycle continues.  Once in the UK then other family members claim the right to come here too.
 
There are many cases of children being abandoned in the Jungle Camp by parents who make the trip to London illegally and more often than not in the back of a lorry.  Once here they then demand their children are allowed in too for the sake of the family.  Should we just accept this situation or demand something is done about it?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Alfie on July 12, 2016, 09:02:24 AM
What sort of border controls are planned for Ireland, between the north and Eire?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 10:25:38 AM
It's what most people in the country want, time will tell.

Which people would that exactly be then ?

Do you, or they realize the sheer logistics of such a task make that near impossible ?
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Jean-Pierre on July 12, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
The Human Rights Act, the EU's great panacea.

The ECHR is not an EU institution.  Anyone who voted for Brexit because they don't like the impact of the ECHR is going to be disappointed.   

A quote from Crosslands:

"What has been overlooked in many of the debates is the fact that whether we exit the EU or not, this will not affect the fact that the UK is bound by common law which implies many fundamental rights,and we also signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights ('ECHR') before the EU even existed. We are one of 47 nations (including Russia) to have signed up to the Council of Europe which is entirely independent of the EU and which administers the ECHR. We also have primary legislation in the UK called the Human Rights Act 1998 which specifically incorporates the ECHR

To be free of the interference of the ECtHR we would have to repeal/amend the Human Rights Act and remove ourselves from the Council  of Europe and the ECHR and if we did, is it likely that many countries would want do business with us? After all, the barriers to Turkey being ushered into the EU have consistently been their Human Rights record, so if we publicly say we will not sign up to the Council of Europe and the ECHR what signal does this send?"

http://www.crosslandsolicitors.com/site/crossland_news/brexit_eweida_achbita_ECJ_ECHR_html_2016

and

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/six-things-you-should-know-4370967
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: stephen25000 on July 12, 2016, 11:06:24 AM
The ECHR is not an EU institution.  Anyone who voted for Brexit because they don't like the impact of the ECHR is going to be disappointed.   

A quote from Crosslands:

"What has been overlooked in many of the debates is the fact that whether we exit the EU or not, this will not affect the fact that the UK is bound by common law which implies many fundamental rights,and we also signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights ('ECHR') before the EU even existed. We are one of 47 nations (including Russia) to have signed up to the Council of Europe which is entirely independent of the EU and which administers the ECHR. We also have primary legislation in the UK called the Human Rights Act 1998 which specifically incorporates the ECHR

To be free of the interference of the ECtHR we would have to repeal/amend the Human Rights Act and remove ourselves from the Council  of Europe and the ECHR and if we did, is it likely that many countries would want do business with us? After all, the barriers to Turkey being ushered into the EU have consistently been their Human Rights record, so if we publicly say we will not sign up to the Council of Europe and the ECHR what signal does this send?"

http://www.crosslandsolicitors.com/site/crossland_news/brexit_eweida_achbita_ECJ_ECHR_html_2016

and

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/six-things-you-should-know-4370967

It seems some people need reminding of the truth J.P.

I have explained the origins of the ECHR before on here.

 I am glad you have done it again.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 14, 2016, 04:38:16 PM
The ECHR is not an EU institution.  Anyone who voted for Brexit because they don't like the impact of the ECHR is going to be disappointed.   

A quote from Crosslands:

"What has been overlooked in many of the debates is the fact that whether we exit the EU or not, this will not affect the fact that the UK is bound by common law which implies many fundamental rights,and we also signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights ('ECHR') before the EU even existed. We are one of 47 nations (including Russia) to have signed up to the Council of Europe which is entirely independent of the EU and which administers the ECHR. We also have primary legislation in the UK called the Human Rights Act 1998 which specifically incorporates the ECHR

To be free of the interference of the ECtHR we would have to repeal/amend the Human Rights Act and remove ourselves from the Council  of Europe and the ECHR and if we did, is it likely that many countries would want do business with us? After all, the barriers to Turkey being ushered into the EU have consistently been their Human Rights record, so if we publicly say we will not sign up to the Council of Europe and the ECHR what signal does this send?"

http://www.crosslandsolicitors.com/site/crossland_news/brexit_eweida_achbita_ECJ_ECHR_html_2016

and

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/six-things-you-should-know-4370967

A lot more people than is being given credit already knew this. They are also aware that  ECHR Has no real teeth and that we can ignore their ruling if we feel lives are in danger- we may be fined- but we don't have to pay the fine what are they going to do killl us all? ppft.

 There has been discussion for many years about ditching this court and setting up our own citizen charter or something like that. To protect us from the state abuse etc. The state also has to protect us from terrorist who move among us, and hate preachers who blatantly breach out racist laws.
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 14, 2016, 09:47:57 PM
A lot more people than is being given credit already knew this. They are also aware that  ECHR Has no real teeth and that we can ignore their ruling if we feel lives are in danger- we may be fined- but we don't have to pay the fine what are they going to do killl us all? ppft.

 There has been discussion for many years about ditching this court and setting up our own citizen charter or something like that. To protect us from the state abuse etc. The state also has to protect us from terrorist who move among us, and hate preachers who blatantly breach out racist laws.

Do you mean a bit like the UK's Human Rights Act of 1998, or something different?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/civil-rights/human-rights/the-human-rights-act-1998/
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Carana on July 14, 2016, 09:51:06 PM
A lot more people than is being given credit already knew this. They are also aware that  ECHR Has no real teeth and that we can ignore their ruling if we feel lives are in danger- we may be fined- but we don't have to pay the fine what are they going to do killl us all? ppft.

 There has been discussion for many years about ditching this court and setting up our own citizen charter or something like that. To protect us from the state abuse etc. The state also has to protect us from terrorist who move among us, and hate preachers who blatantly breach out racist laws.

Which human rights do you object to, exactly? I'm not sure that I understand.


Here we go:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/civil-rights/human-rights/what-rights-are-protected-under-the-human-rights-act/
Title: Re: Should there be an amnesty for illegal immigrants living in the UK?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 24, 2016, 10:47:13 PM
Which human rights do you object to, exactly? I'm not sure that I understand.


Here we go:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/civil-rights/human-rights/what-rights-are-protected-under-the-human-rights-act/

I personally do not object to any.

 I do object to the courts in this country who interperate them in favour of one persons rights to freedom against an others rights to freedom, thus allowing criminals who are no longer welcolme  or wanted here to run riot going  on killing sprees or invoking racial hatred against the people who pay for his/her priveledge to enjoy this freedom to carry out such atrocities. I would much rather these people go to their own countries and carry out these crimes or does that make me a bad person huh