UK Justice Forum

Other High Profile Cases and Persons of Interest => The murder of landscape architect Joanna Yeates in Bristol in December 2010. => Topic started by: mrswah on September 10, 2016, 01:22:37 AM

Title: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 10, 2016, 01:22:37 AM
I have doubts about whether Vincent Tabak is actually guilty.  Yes, I know he may well be, and I am not accusing anyone else, but I have questions, that I hope some of you may be able to answer:
Firstly, yes, I know he made a confession, but how do we know he didn't make it under duress?

Why was it necessary  to employ a team of fire engines and a crane to retrieve Joanna's body? (The Daily Mail carried a photo of this at the time).

Why was Tabak's DNA not found in Joanna's flat, if (as was claimed in court) he killed her there?

What evidence is there that he had her body in the boot of his car when he went to ASDA?

How do we know exactly what he searched on his computer, and do computer searches necessarily make one a murderer? (I think the police would have a field day if they looked at mine!!)

Why, once the police had Tabak's DNA, (or so they said) ,did they not release Christopher Jefferies immediately?

Why did neither Jefferies, nor Tanja Morson, nor Tabak's boss, appear in court to testify as to his character?

Ok, so these are some of my questions.  I would be happier about Tabak's conviction, had there been better evidence, for instance, CCTV images showing him following Joanna home, or evidence of him buying cleaning materials in ASDA, rather than crisps!  To me, he does not seem a very likely murderer, and I am not saying this merely because he has a PhD, as of course I realise that someone with a PhD can commit murder!  But, really, a sexually motivated murder committed by someone who had only ever had one girlfriend, and who just happened to be the next door neighbour?

A lawyer called Sally Ramage, who was in court during the trial, has written an interesting account of it. Don't remember the link, but if you google Sally Ramage/Vincent Tabak, you will find it.

Any comments?????

1487
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 10, 2016, 12:12:32 PM
I have doubts about whether Vincent Tabak is actually guilty.  Yes, I know he may well be, and I am not accusing anyone else, but I have questions, that I hope some of you may be able to answer:
Firstly, yes, I know he made a confession, but how do we know he didn't make it under duress?

Why was it necessary  to employ a team of fire engines and a crane to retrieve Joanna's body? (The Daily Mail carried a photo of this at the time).

Why was Tabak's DNA not found in Joanna's flat, if (as was claimed in court) he killed her there?

What evidence is there that he had her body in the boot of his car when he went to ASDA?

How do we know exactly what he searched on his computer, and do computer searches necessarily make one a murderer? (I think the police would have a field day if they looked at mine!!)

Why, once the police had Tabak's DNA, (or so they said) ,did they not release Christopher Jefferies immediately?

Why did neither Jefferies, nor Tanja Morson, nor Tabak's boss, appear in court to testify as to his character?

Ok, so these are some of my questions.  I would be happier about Tabak's conviction, had there been better evidence, for instance, CCTV images showing him following Joanna home, or evidence of him buying cleaning materials in ASDA, rather than crisps!  To me, he does not seem a very likely murderer, and I am not saying this merely because he has a PhD, as of course I realise that someone with a PhD can commit murder!  But, really, a sexually motivated murder committed by someone who had only ever had one girlfriend, and who just happened to be the next door neighbour?

A lawyer called Sally Ramage, who was in court during the trial, has written an interesting account of it. Don't remember the link, but if you google Sally Ramage/Vincent Tabak, you will find it.

Any comments?????

I was surprised when he was charged and subsequently found guilty as he seemed a most unlikely suspect but as far as I can see he's guilty as charged.

Personally I think his mind was corrupted by a certain type of porn.  There was also evidence he used the services of escorts.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/28/vincent-tabak-porn-searches-jury
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 10, 2016, 01:42:39 PM
Thanks for your response, Holly.

Much was made of the porn on Tabak's computer, and someone from the States even accused Tabak of trying to strangle her during sex (this was reported in one of the tabloids).  So, why didn't a police officer interview her ?  Why didn't Tabak's girlfriend appear in court, as she would, surely, have had some idea as to whether or not her partner was into kinky  and dangerous sex.  Lots of people have porn on their computers, and many use escorts, pay for phone sex, etc, but this is not illegal, and it doesn't make somebody a killer.

As for the later appearance in court relating to the possession of child porn, I wonder why they bothered prosecuting.  After all, even if they put Tabak on the sex offenders' register for ten years, he will be in prison for the next ten years anyway, and is, therefore, in no position to work with children, or harm them .  (Incidentally, he had no previous criminal record either here, or in Holland , of any kind of sex crime).   I wonder if there was another reason, for instance, would this additional conviction make it harder (or impossible) for him to appeal??? 

Not sure that porn (or anything else) on somebody's computer is actually good evidence:  it can be planted, and did the jury actually get to see it??  It seems to me that the police and the CPS were DESPERATE to get a conviction, having messed things up so badly over the arrest of Christopher Jefferies.  It would not have been difficult to convince the jury, as everybody was absolutely appalled at what happened to Joanna Yeates.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 10, 2016, 03:14:14 PM
Thanks for your response, Holly.

Much was made of the porn on Tabak's computer, and someone from the States even accused Tabak of trying to strangle her during sex (this was reported in one of the tabloids).  So, why didn't a police officer interview her ?  Why didn't Tabak's girlfriend appear in court, as she would, surely, have had some idea as to whether or not her partner was into kinky  and dangerous sex.  Lots of people have porn on their computers, and many use escorts, pay for phone sex, etc, but this is not illegal, and it doesn't make somebody a killer.

As for the later appearance in court relating to the possession of child porn, I wonder why they bothered prosecuting.  After all, even if they put Tabak on the sex offenders' register for ten years, he will be in prison for the next ten years anyway, and is, therefore, in no position to work with children, or harm them .  (Incidentally, he had no previous criminal record either here, or in Holland , of any kind of sex crime).   I wonder if there was another reason, for instance, would this additional conviction make it harder (or impossible) for him to appeal??? 

Not sure that porn (or anything else) on somebody's computer is actually good evidence:  it can be planted, and did the jury actually get to see it??  It seems to me that the police and the CPS were DESPERATE to get a conviction, having messed things up so badly over the arrest of Christopher Jefferies.  It would not have been difficult to convince the jury, as everybody was absolutely appalled at what happened to Joanna Yeates.

Yes I agree the fact he watched porn and possibly used the services of an escort doesn't in itself point to his guilt.  In any event the jury didn't hear any of this.

I think men often use these services because their partners are not into whatever they are or they feel they can't ask.  So TM may have been in the dark about his sexual preferences. 

I thought his DNA was found somewhere on JY's body or clothing?

Is he protesting innocence or trying to appeal his sentence in some way? 

The verdict was a 10-2 majority.  I had look this up and was quite surprised as I did expect to find a unanimous verdict.  From what I read at the time I thought the case against him was very strong. 

I think people struggle to comprehend a well educated, well turned out man like VT carrying out such a crime.  CJ on the other hand, whilst also well educted, looked a bit unkempt and perhaps people just found it easier to pin the blame on him?  As evidenced by the way the press went to war on him?  I think people feel safe when the perps of serious crime look or act a bit different.   

VT claimed the attack was not sexually motivated and that he put his hands around JY's neck as she screamed.  Sounds remarkably like the case of Ian Huntley (Soham Murders) in this regard. 

mrswah I think there's little doubt VT is guilty.  I can't see any evidence of anything amiss here at all?  VT has even confessed.  He comes from a stable middle class family.  If they felt there was anything amiss I am sure they would be pursuing this?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 10, 2016, 10:52:40 PM
They did find DNA, but had to have it "enhanced", and I believe the police believed that, on its own,  it was not enough to get him convicted. 

I , too, have wondered why his family have not made any fuss about his conviction.  Do they believe him guilty, or have they been told to keep quiet, in order not to reduce his chances of being able to serve out part of his sentence in Holland?

I also find it strange that nobody has written a book about this case:  normally, somebody does, after such a high profile case.

Of course, I might be wrong, and he is guilty.  It is just that this case "niggles" me, whereas many murder cases don't.

Thanks for commenting, anyway.  I am hoping that other people on this forum will. 

As for Jefferies, I  strongly suspect that , somehow, he would have been "found guilty" had they not arrested Tabak, not just because he "looked weird", but because he had keys to all the flats.  The media (and people on forums) were very damning of him at the time---falsely, of course. 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 11, 2016, 02:47:17 PM
They did find DNA, but had to have it "enhanced", and I believe the police believed that, on its own,  it was not enough to get him convicted. 

I , too, have wondered why his family have not made any fuss about his conviction.  Do they believe him guilty, or have they been told to keep quiet, in order not to reduce his chances of being able to serve out part of his sentence in Holland?

I also find it strange that nobody has written a book about this case:  normally, somebody does, after such a high profile case.

Of course, I might be wrong, and he is guilty.  It is just that this case "niggles" me, whereas many murder cases don't.

Thanks for commenting, anyway.  I am hoping that other people on this forum will. 

As for Jefferies, I  strongly suspect that , somehow, he would have been "found guilty" had they not arrested Tabak, not just because he "looked weird", but because he had keys to all the flats.  The media (and people on forums) were very damning of him at the time---falsely, of course.

DNA is often amplified and it wouldn't be strong enough evidence on its own to get a case to court whether amplified or not.  Its not as strong as fingerprint evidence.  A DNA profile can be shared by others, although statistically rare.  Fingerprints are unique and not even shared by identical twins.

I don't believe the DPP would ever have been in a postion to bring about a case against CJ for the simple reason he is completely innocent of any involvement whatsoever. 

VT and his family have kept a dignified silence as all concerned know he's guilty.

I've no idea why this case would "niggle" anyone as I can't see there's any doubt at all VT is guilty. 

I'm not sure there's much to write about?  As far as I can see it's just a sad case where a man allowed himself to become corrupted and consumed by violent porn to the point where it caused him to act out of character in the real world.  His victim was a very decent young woman with her whole life ahead of her who it could be said 'was in the wrong place at the wrong time' albeit she was in her own home planning on spending a leisurely evening alone.

If you're interested in potential miscarriages of justice why not spend your time looking at cases where there's real doubt?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 11, 2016, 04:22:03 PM
Hi Holly

Well, I cant help my niggles and doubts now, can I??

I remember (I'm probably a lot older than you!) a time when anyone who thought the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six might be innocent, were considered absolutely nuts!!  And, yet----------

Of course Chris Jefferies, although totally innocent, could have been stitched up and convicted!  If that kind of thing never happened, there would be no miscarriages of justice at all.

So, which cases, where there is real doubt,  do you think I ought to be looking at ?

Was just hoping that somebody could help me with the questions that I asked in my first post. 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on September 11, 2016, 10:57:56 PM


Hi mrs w , welcome


There is a website dedicated to his innocence, just google tabak is innocent
There is some interesting info in there which didnt make the uk news

But

apart from pleading guilty his long list of actions before being caught are very incriminatory

I think youre probably onto a loser here

And if he was innocent wouldnt he have alledged confession after duress?

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Myster on September 12, 2016, 06:39:51 AM

Hi mrs w , welcome


There is a website dedicated to his innocence, just google tabak is innocent
There is some interesting info in there which didnt make the uk news

But

apart from pleading guilty his long list of actions before being caught are very incriminatory

I think youre probably onto a loser here

And if he was innocent wouldnt he have alledged confession after duress?

Only one misguided voice crying from the wilderness of Denmark...

http://vincent-tabak-is-innocent.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://vincent-tabak-is-innocent.blogspot.co.uk/)

http://www.suffolkstrangler.com/philip%20Hollingbery%20review.htm (http://www.suffolkstrangler.com/philip%20Hollingbery%20review.htm)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nJqbxSVNOA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nJqbxSVNOA)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 12, 2016, 11:04:17 AM
Thanks for the links folks!  I am familiar with them, good to see some other people are.

Yes, of course I might be "onto a loser" and don't mind if I am:   the consequences of people like me being "onto a winner" in this case  would mean that Joanna's killer  is still free to kill again, and that an innocent man is serving a life sentence.

Here is the link to Sally Ramage's account of the trial.  She does NOT say Tabak is innocent, but what she does say is very interesting all the same.  She is a lawyer, who was present at the trial.

www.philpapers.org/archive/RAMTMT-4.pdf
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2016, 02:24:53 PM
Hi Holly

Well, I cant help my niggles and doubts now, can I??

I remember (I'm probably a lot older than you!) a time when anyone who thought the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six might be innocent, were considered absolutely nuts!!  And, yet----------

Of course Chris Jefferies, although totally innocent, could have been stitched up and convicted!  If that kind of thing never happened, there would be no miscarriages of justice at all.

So, which cases, where there is real doubt,  do you think I ought to be looking at ?

Was just hoping that somebody could help me with the questions that I asked in my first post.

Well I apologise if I sound completely dismissive but I just can't see anything to suggest VT is the victim of a MoJ.  Moreover I don't believe he's even protesting his innocence which he surely would if he didn't commit the crime?

You mentioned the Birmingham Six and Guildford Four as examples of MoJ's but the members involved in these cases always protested their innocence and had family support who were very vocal.  In the end their cases were taken up by high minded lawyers.  I believe one or two had 'confessions' beaten out of them in an era when police interviews were not taped.  MoJ's will sadly always happen but I do believe it's more difficult today for the innocent to be wrongly convicted than it was in the 70's and 80's.

VT was an unusual case in that he didn't fit the stereotypical murderer.  He was well educated and turned out with a well paid job and steady girlfriend from a middle class family.  As I said personally I think he allowed his mind to become corrupted and consumed by extreme porn.   

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2016, 02:26:20 PM
Thanks for the links folks!  I am familiar with them, good to see some other people are.

Yes, of course I might be "onto a loser" and don't mind if I am:   the consequences of people like me being "onto a winner" in this case  would mean that Joanna's killer  is still free to kill again, and that an innocent man is serving a life sentence.

Here is the link to Sally Ramage's account of the trial.  She does NOT say Tabak is innocent, but what she does say is very interesting all the same.  She is a lawyer, who was present at the trial.

www.philpapers.org/archive/RAMTMT-4.pdf

Are we able to authenticate Sally Ramage by way of an entry to a professional register or something of that nature?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 12, 2016, 08:56:09 PM
Will have a look Holly, and see what I can find out!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 12, 2016, 09:19:04 PM
Re Sally Ramage:


www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk


www.linkedin.com/in/criminallawyer1


Don't have a clue how she came to involve herself with the Tabak trial, however!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on September 12, 2016, 09:57:41 PM
Thanks for the links folks!  I am familiar with them, good to see some other people are.

Yes, of course I might be "onto a loser" and don't mind if I am:   the consequences of people like me being "onto a winner" in this case  would mean that Joanna's killer  is still free to kill again, and that an innocent man is serving a life sentence.

Here is the link to Sally Ramage's account of the trial.  She does NOT say Tabak is innocent, but what she does say is very interesting all the same.  She is a lawyer, who was present at the trial.

www.philpapers.org/archive/RAMTMT-4.pdf

Sounds like she was arguing it was manslaughter not murder and I cant say I disagree much from what is known

I havent got my head around somene else being the killer, free to kill again, when tabak described the evenings events and what happened

Ive also speed read some of the other links, some of the arguments on face value seem valid, and quite strong, there is a bit of speculation to say the least as well, so bar tabak being forced to lie throught the trial, the cps, police, prison chaplain and lawyers all being bent, leaned on, or incompetent, Im not convinced he had nothing to do with it

must admit though, there is somethng iffy about the conduct of the whole thing

Cps and police often act like the mafia cos theyre protected by the govt
But i cant see why they would do so in ghis case, frame an innocent manand make him agree to it


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 13, 2016, 10:42:41 AM
Will have a look Holly, and see what I can find out!

Thanks mrswah.  It doesn't seem independent? 

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 14, 2016, 07:34:05 AM
Re Sally Ramage:


www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk


www.linkedin.com/in/criminallawyer1


Don't have a clue how she came to involve herself with the Tabak trial, however!

I've just had a look on The Law Society's register and I am unable to find a Sally Ramage:

http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 14, 2016, 11:59:11 AM
I think she is American.

If you look at the link I put up, and then click on "the criminal lawyer", you will see a box which lists all her qualifications, memberships, etc.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Myster on September 14, 2016, 01:05:39 PM
I think she is American.

If you look at the link I put up, and then click on "the criminal lawyer", you will see a box which lists all her qualifications, memberships, etc.

British it appears... https://plus.google.com/+SALLYRAMAGE (https://plus.google.com/+SALLYRAMAGE)

Click on ABOUT.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on September 14, 2016, 04:31:18 PM
Yes, I think you are right! She edits a journal called "The Criminal Lawyer", and , although she has degrees in Law, she may not have actually  practised as a lawyer: she appears to be a legal researcher and journalist.  There is quite a lot about her on the net. She has written about a number of court cases-----I wouldn't mind a job like that!!!

Her husband does practise as a solicitor, apparently.  She lives in Staffordshire.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 01, 2016, 08:22:05 AM
I too have doubts of his guilt, it nags at me and every so often i look back at whats available to research.

Crucially its his exit from his flat.. why would he go past joanna flat?

The more direct route for him is to turn left as he leaves the house and not right.

If turning right was the normal thing to do he would have seen more of his neighbours than he did, as he,d pass there house daily.

But I would think he would turn left onto the road/carpark next to his flat as his daily routine.

The double open gated exit is much wider and easier to access than struggling with his bicycle everyday going down the narrow path next to joanna flat.

And if turning left is your usual route out of the house, why go right on that night ??




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Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 01, 2016, 10:22:36 PM
I too have doubts of his guilt, it nags at me and every so often i look back at whats available to research.

Crucially its his exit from his flat.. why would he go past joanna flat?

The more direct route for him is to turn left as he leaves the house and not right.

If turning right was the normal thing to do he would have seen more of his neighbours than he did, as he,d pass there house daily.

But I would think he would turn left onto the road/carpark next to his flat as his daily routine.

The double open gated exit is much wider and easier to access than struggling with his bicycle everyday going down the narrow path next to joanna flat.

And if turning left is your usual route out of the house, why go right on that night ??

Oh right
So you think he would confess to get, what a life sentence? Sigh
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 03, 2016, 06:21:15 PM
There are many people who have falsely confessed to a crime they haven't committed.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 03, 2016, 11:17:28 PM
There are many people who have falsely confessed to a crime they haven't committed.
He pleaded not guilty initially iirc
I assumed he pleaded gulty to get a lesser sentence
What do you think made him plead guilty then ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 04, 2016, 11:19:02 AM
as a foreign national not understanding british law, and the evidence they put infront of him with the (partial) DNA, maybe he was convinced to plead to a lesser charge as if found guilty he would get xyz years in prison and manslaughter carries a lesser sentence,..

I found the trial bizarre ... A man who basically sat there and tried to explain how it happened.

Where were the key players in that?

Tanja Morson, did not testify, (she was tabak,s girlfriend, she would know his manner etc, she wasn't called as a prosecution witness or a defence witness)

Christopher Jefferies did not testify,

neither did her parents. Her mother said the flat didn't look right when she went in..

Where were his defence in defending him?

In the trial they explain away, everything,

So... he uses small garden gate, that makes him pass her door..

He goes into hallway and hangs his coat

he strangles her within 10/20 seconds.. ( i,m sure strangulation is an upclose and personal thing, someone who's angry, also 10/20 seconds is too short a time)

After killing her, he puts her body on her bed, goes round to his flat..

Then comes back, moves her body to his flat..
 
He put her in a bicycle bag..( he says as not to leave evidence in car.. so what about all the evidence he should have left in the flat up until that point)

He the puts her body in the boot of the car...

He goes back to turn off the oven, the tv and take the pizza and sock...

He drives to asda, we all see him in an asda... ( wheres the date and time stamp on this video?)

He dumps her where she's found.... Taking her out of the bicycle bag and putting the cover back in his car.

He explains her breast was showing because he'd tried to lift her over the fence but couldn't because she was too heavy.. (A dead weight)

So i don't understand looking at that scene, how if he can't lift her up over a small fence to hide her, how he could in that short space of time, lift her onto a bed.. carry her to his flat.. put her into a bicycle bag, carry it to the car, lift it into the boot... get to the second crime scene and lift her out of the car, take her out of the bicycle bag and then think... too heavy i won't move her.....

To me the idea that, you go into your neighbours who you have never spoken to before, kill them and then think,.. I must go back and turn the oven off, take that pizza and the sock on the floor??

Yet...... Leave a half drunk bottle of cider, which showed she'd been home..( how long had she been home to drink half a bottle of cider?)


To me it doesn't add up.....

Why not take her coat? bag ? phone? shoes?  If your trying to make it look like she's not there, popped out or something,

Also in the trail, it was described as a violent attack.. his DNA was not found in the flat, hers wasn't found in his.. wheres the transfer evidence???

I could be completely wrong , but it doesn't add up!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 04, 2016, 11:57:24 PM
There are miscarriages of justice in the uk system as much as anywhere else but he hasnt since said he is innocent or had anyone campaigning for him

I would have to go back and read all the info available to reply to you properly





Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 05, 2016, 11:34:42 PM
When VT was first arrested, he said he was innocent, and did not believe the DNA said to be found on Joanna's body was his DNA. 

He changed his plea to guilty having been in a category A prison on remand for several weeks.  We don't know how he was treated in there, or whether or not he was drugged.  We don't really know how he came to make his confession, only that he, apparently confessed to a chaplain , who could have been planted there by the police in order to get a confession out of him.  It is odd that Brotherton only started visiting Long Lartin in the January, just before VT got there.

His lawyers changed a few times too, and we dont know why.

At his trial, he claimed not to remember the answers to many of the questions put to him.  Was this because he had been instructed as to what to say, and he couldn't remember what he had been told to say?  Somebody who attended the trial thought he looked and behaved like "an automaton". 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 05, 2016, 11:42:47 PM
And, yes, as you say, if Joanna was killed in her flat, OR in his flat, by VT, why wasn't his DNA found there?

If he had killed her in his car, there would have been DNA  evidence in the car: lots of it, not only one tiny blood spot in the boot.

There is no evidence that Vincent and Joanna even encountered each other on that Friday night. Nobody is even sure whether, in fact, Joanna did die on the Friday night.  If she died later, it is unlikely that Vincent did it, as Tanja would have been around.

If he hadn't "confessed", there would have been no case, as the DNA evidence they had was not enough to secure a conviction.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 06, 2016, 10:38:42 AM
Im at the moment, looking at video of christopher jefferies, not that i think he had anything to do with it...

But... he never gave evidence in court, and i noticed an interesting comment he made about recieving a phone call from Greg Rearon at half past twelve on the Sunday.. I think Jefferies means the monday morning..


Christopher Jefferies quote:  "I got up on monday morning and noticed I had a missed call on my phone about half

past twelve on the Sunday.

So it was very very unusual.."

This can be found on a video called Killers: Vincent Tabak  around the 11.06/11.07 mark

Found this rather odd.. as hed phoned joanna and noticed her phone was in her pocket.. Why ring the landlord before the police.. why not go round to the neighbours?? Ring her friends??







Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 06, 2016, 10:48:57 AM
Sally Rampage,s paper about vincent tabak, says that there was no stomach contents..

If this is acurate, what about the cheesy chips?...

More important what about the half bottle of cider she drank, which was 5 mins before she was supposed to have been killed!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 06, 2016, 11:01:23 AM
Did he leave via the little gate??

Well im not sure.. again on the video Killers: Vincent tabak around 12.55

Jo,s parents says they notice that there where foot prints going diagonally across the lawn, they encounter a couple walking across the lawn, in a reconstruction.

whether this is Tabak and Tanja im not sure, but it begs the question that who ever walked across the lawn possibly did so because the path was

A: slippy because of the snow or

B: It was a shortcut..

Either way it suggests that Vincent Tabak didnt need to mention the little gate, as he would have said he"d taken a shortcut across the lawn..

Who's diagonal footprints where they?

And did they go from right to left diagonally or Left to right diagonally?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 06, 2016, 11:37:35 AM
Again on the video Killers: Vincent Tabak  9:45 0nward (Police Officer states)

Greg reardon is with his family in sheffield trying to get hold of his girlfriend Joanna Yeates..

Over the weekend he tried to text her. He sent text messages to her, he rang her number and he rang the landline andd hadnt got any response.

Greg grows worried,its unusual for Joanna not to keeo intouch!!!

He travels back to Bristol and encounters an empty flat.


Yet  on Page 47 of Sally Ramapages paper ..

Gregs witness statement:

Mr Reardon told the court that he texted Miss Yeates on her mobile telephone several times during
the weekend but received no reply.

He stated that he was not alarmed because this was often how
she behaved.

Which was it??

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: puglove on November 06, 2016, 11:12:34 PM
Again on the video Killers: Vincent Tabak  9:45 0nward (Police Officer states)

Greg reardon is with his family in sheffield trying to get hold of his girlfriend Joanna Yeates..

Over the weekend he tried to text her. He sent text messages to her, he rang her number and he rang the landline andd hadnt got any response.

Greg grows worried,its unusual for Joanna not to keeo intouch!!!

He travels back to Bristol and encounters an empty flat.


Yet  on Page 47 of Sally Ramapages paper ..

Gregs witness statement:

Mr Reardon told the court that he texted Miss Yeates on her mobile telephone several times during
the weekend but received no reply.

He stated that he was not alarmed because this was often how
she behaved.

Which was it??

Nine, where the hell are you going with this? Don't disrespect the poor girl's parents with nonsense. He did it.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 07, 2016, 08:36:45 AM
Nine, where the hell are you going with this? Don't disrespect the poor girl's parents with nonsense. He did it.



I,m sorry .. `I,m not trying to disrespect Jo,s parents..

The family i feel terrible for, its an horrendous crime, i cannot imagine, the pain that they have gone through, (and are still going through) and if i have come across in a way that suggests, I am disrespecting the family, I can only apologise.

There have been plenty of people whom, for instance, in America have  been given the death sentence, and the evidence has pointed to them, but only when you get a full picture of events do you really see what has taken place.

The west memphis three are a case in point.

http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/

Quite often in cases, its the little things that make all the difference.
Again I am not wanting to be disrespectful, I wasnt intending to cause alarm to them.

But, if Tabak didnt do it, his family must also be suffering.

I remember Stefan Kiszko he was asked to confess and told he could go home to his mum if he said he did it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

Im sure there are cases in which you, yourself feels like there has been a miscarriage of justice, as that is the Name of the site.

And without looking into the small discrepencies, and time lines etc, we will never know.




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 08, 2016, 10:01:49 AM
Puglove, nobody is disrespecting Joanna's family.

This is a site concerned with possible miscarriages of justice, and people are entitled to air their views! 

No victims of miscarriages of justice would ever be freed if concern was only about not respecting victims' families. 

I doubt whether Joanna's family would be too happy if the wrong man was found to be in prison, and Jo's killer was still out there.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2016, 10:30:31 AM
I think as the man convicted in this case isn't screaming his innocence from the roof tops people are bound to be of the opinion the right man Is serving the sentence.

Most cases whether guilty or innocent, if you stare long enough then you will see something to say why did that happen, that cant be right, it doesn't add up

There are many cases where people are crying out for help and support because they are innocent. They deserve all that can be done given to free them from a wrongful conviction
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 08, 2016, 02:31:00 PM
Puglove, nobody is disrespecting Joanna's family.

This is a site concerned with possible miscarriages of justice, and people are entitled to air their views! 

No victims of miscarriages of justice would ever be freed if concern was only about not respecting victims' families. 

I doubt whether Joanna's family would be too happy if the wrong man was found to be in prison, and Jo's killer was still out there.

This site is also concerned with exposing false miscarriage of justice claims and have successfully done so on several occasions.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 08, 2016, 08:38:57 PM
Not everybody who screams their innocence from the rooftops IS actually innocent!

In the same way, some who ARE  innocent might keep quiet, and there could be a number of reasons for this:

They might have been drugged/brainwashed/isolated/, and are no longer sure whether, in fact, they "did it" or not.

 Someone like Tabak, who is not from this country, might think that if he keeps quiet, it will increase his chances of being able to serve part of his sentence back in Holland.  He might even have been told this, we just dont know.  He was certainly protesting his innocence when he was first arrested, then he confessed after some time on remand.  We dont actually know whether he did this because he was actually guilty, and decided to come clean, or whether he was coerced into making a false confession.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2016, 09:09:02 PM
This sounds oh so familiar. If someone is doing their prison time and not protesting their innocence and been found guilty by the members of a jury in court, plus all the evidence lead them to that conclusion... then I am not too sure why you think differently

I know people are wrongly convicted and I know people pretend that to be the case.

You seem to have all the answers, anyone would think you are a Solicitor Barrister or something along those lines!

You seem to look for things to fit your way of thinking about crime. I wonder why?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 08, 2016, 09:19:22 PM
Not everybody who screams their innocence from the rooftops IS actually innocent!

In the same way, some who ARE  innocent might keep quiet, and there could be a number of reasons for this:

They might have been drugged/brainwashed/isolated/, and are no longer sure whether, in fact, they "did it" or not.

 Someone like Tabak, who is not from this country, might think that if he keeps quiet, it will increase his chances of being able to serve part of his sentence back in Holland.  He might even have been told this, we just dont know.  He was certainly protesting his innocence when he was first arrested, then he confessed after some time on remand.  We dont actually know whether he did this because he was actually guilty, and decided to come clean, or whether he was coerced into making a false confession.

That argument doesnt convince me personally because he would have to be drugged brainwashed and n isolation forever for it to hold aNy ground

Protesting his innocence once arrested is pretty normal for people who dont want to be caught

Have any of his friends and family protested it or campaigned on his behalf?

He may have been wrongly charged with murder though if it was not premeditated or intent to kill

The whole "fittingup a totally innocentman"  up theory hasnt got enough behind it

Who would do this andwhy? A police force looking for the first available patsy??

And sincewhen have uk police drugged people into a confession??

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2016, 09:22:29 PM
I agree Mercury. Its very common place to do just that. You chance your arm, play the game and hope not to implicate yourself.

Not admitting your guilt does in no way indicate innocence!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 09, 2016, 10:56:25 AM
Jixy, I have never claimed to have all the answers.  I only wish I did !!  On the contrary, I just have a lot of questions.

And, I have, on more on one occasion, admitted that I could be wrong.


So, perhaps you and other posters , who believe in VT's guilt, could answer one of these questions for me:

Where do you think VT killed Joanna?  I ask this because, had he killed her in her flat, as he claimed, he would have left DNA and fingerprint evidence there.  Had this been the case, I am sure we would have heard about it, as it would have formed good prosecution evidence at the trial.  There has never been any mention of VT's DNA in her flat, or of Joanna's DNA in his.

Had he killed her in his car (or rather, Tanja's car), there would have been DNA all over the car, not one teeny weeny blood spot in the boot, which yielded somewhat inconclusive evidence.

Had he killed her outside the flats, this would have caused a disturbance (and, quite honestly, would anyone be stupid enough to kill his next door neighbour right outside the door?).  Chris Jefferies, who lived upstairs, and who was in that night, and who didn't own a TV to block out the noise, surely would have heard something, gone to investigate, and called the police.  He was, after all, a conscientious  Neighbourhood Watch enthusiast.

Any ideas???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 09, 2016, 10:32:05 PM
@mrswah
re the car
Jo's body was out in a bicycle bag so there would be no dna in the boot

Don't  know about the flat not having VT's dna in it...maybe it got contaminated, maybe it wasn't looked for?? Why would it be?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 09, 2016, 10:37:47 PM
The flat was certainly examined forensically.  During the trial, the jury were taken to see the flat, and pictures were shown of the bathroom having been forensically examined.

You ask why they would look. Surely, one would expect the police to look for forensic evidence in a place where somebody is said to have been killed?????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 09, 2016, 10:49:23 PM
The flat was certainly examined forensically.  During the trial, the jury were taken to see the flat, and pictures were shown of the bathroom having been forensically examined.

You ask why they would look. Surely, one would expect the police to look for forensic evidence in a place where somebody is said to have been killed?????

Of course they will have forensically sweeped, sorry, what I meant was, they wouldnt be sweeping with any person in mind
As I said, maybe it was contaminated,as at least one person was in there after the events and before police arrived

I would though imagine that , bearing in mind there was a struggle, a few hairs may have fallen and hairs cant be contaminated /destroyed in same way as dna from skin, sweat e.g.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 10, 2016, 03:15:15 AM
Jixy, I have never claimed to have all the answers.  I only wish I did !!  On the contrary, I just have a lot of questions.

And, I have, on more on one occasion, admitted that I could be wrong.


So, perhaps you and other posters , who believe in VT's guilt, could answer one of these questions for me:

Where do you think VT killed Joanna?  I ask this because, had he killed her in her flat, as he claimed, he would have left DNA and fingerprint evidence there.  Had this been the case, I am sure we would have heard about it, as it would have formed good prosecution evidence at the trial.  There has never been any mention of VT's DNA in her flat, or of Joanna's DNA in his.

Had he killed her in his car (or rather, Tanja's car), there would have been DNA all over the car, not one teeny weeny blood spot in the boot, which yielded somewhat inconclusive evidence.

Had he killed her outside the flats, this would have caused a disturbance (and, quite honestly, would anyone be stupid enough to kill his next door neighbour right outside the door?).  Chris Jefferies, who lived upstairs, and who was in that night, and who didn't own a TV to block out the noise, surely would have heard something, gone to investigate, and called the police.  He was, after all, a conscientious  Neighbourhood Watch enthusiast.

Any ideas???

The accepted version is that he killed her in her flat after attempting to kiss her.

He might very well have left DNA evidence in the flat, unfortunately the forensics team appear to not have recovered any.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2016, 07:22:29 AM
Thanks Mercury and John.

You see, this is one of the things I cannot get my head around.  Without forensic evidence from the flat, nobody can prove he killed her there, as (as far as I am aware), nobody saw VT enter Jo's flat, nobody saw them together that night, and nothing belonging to VT was found in Jo's flat. They only have VT's confession to rely on, and surely they would need to back this up with other evidence.

We do not know for sure that Jo was ever put into VT's cycle bag.  If Tanja had been called as a witness, she might have been able to tell the court whether or not VT owned a cycle bag, and whether this was missing.

And, there was that front door!  VT apparently aroused suspicion in the police officer who interviewed him in Holland, because he asked questions regarding why the front door had been removed. Either he was merely interested in how the forensic team do their investigations (so am I, for that matter), or he was afraid of his DNA being found on that door (the official line).  Nobody in court actually said whether or not there was any forensic evidence leading to him on that door!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 01:34:17 PM
And I,m puzzled as to how the shower area is covered in forensic powder, yet the sink is clean and tiles behind.

The oven which tabak turned off is also void of forensic powder.

The back of the door had litte to know finger print powder upon it.

Looking at the door it look, it has two locks, was it every determined as to which locks were locked?

The lock catchment is a different colour to the Brass yale lock,

in the sitting room one of the settee covers have been removed, why not remove them all??

But my overwhelming concern, is why he would ever, need to move her at all.....

Two complete strangers, he wasnt seen entering or leaving the flat, hes gone into it more than once, he has to tidy it up...

The more actions he does in the flat, the more chance of leaving evidence of himself behind.

And why would you add to that evidence by placing her in your own flat, only then to worry, i better not leave evidence in tanja car, let me get the bicycle bag!!!

The twoing and froing between flats and car take time, a dead body is heavy, people struggle to move dead people.

Thats why you have either, the person is left at the original crime scene or the body dismemebered or hidden in the place where they died.Two people move the body.

Victims are often walked to the scene where they are found.

The only reason to move someone would be to give the impression that they left somewhere, of there own accord and it would have to benefit the perpetrator to do so.

Tabak was aware that Tanja would be home that evening, they spent the weekend together.

He would have been able to have a better alibi with her left in the flat, having gone round home to use his computer,( time stamps) till he went to Asda.

If she was dead within 5/10 mins of returning home, who would know whom had entered the flat?
( He's described in court as being very calculated.)

Again to move her and return more than once to the flat, presents a risk of being seen.

To return to the flat to take a pizza and a sock and tidy up, turn oven off and Tv off but leave behind the opened beer..is ludicrous... if the sock was supposed to be the trophy he kept... where is it??

As a so called sexual preditor, wouldnt it of been more prudent of him to take the some underwear,

He's of need of hours to scrub it to make sure he hadnt left any evidence behind.

The prosecution believed he had Joanna in his flat for over an hour before putting her in the boot of his car..

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/28/joanna-yeates-case-vincent-tabak

So if shes in his flat for over an hour before he even puts her into the car, what time was that.????

Hes in Asda in Bedminster at what time? he's sent a text at 10.30 to Tanja, there no timestamp on the video in Asda, which is worrying.

Work backwards:

10.30 Asda.

5/10 minute drive to bedminster....10.20

How many minutes to put a body in a car? two attempts.. 5/10 mins ....10.10

Go get his car off the street and park it by his house.. 5 mins..  10.05.

She's in his flat for an 1 hour.... 9.05

You then have 20 mins left for all the events to take place..

If shes arrived home at 8.45 ( as she was in (leaving) asda at 8.40) she would have a few minutes walk home. 4/5 mins, she talked to someone in the street??

She has to enter her flat lock the door,

put her keys away in her bag,

take her boots off ,

hang up her coat,

turn TV on,

Go into kitchen with her shopping, turn the oven on,

Open the beer ,have a drink.

wave at Tabak and invite him in.... 

Open the door , let him in, ( How many minutes does it take for all her actions??) 5 minutes??

Go back to kitchen and talk for 10 minutes, (be flirty as Tabak says).. You now have 5 minutes left

THEN!! he attacks her,

she sustained 43 injuries how many minutes would an attack take to cause all those injuries?? Surely with such an attack he's off left alot more of himself behind at the flat (DNA ,fibres, finger prints, etc)

A 20 second attack.. with 43 injuries... not likely.

He then puts her on the bed, (how did her earring end up in the duvet? did he make the bed??) (2mins) he has to carry her from the kitchen down the hall

He goes round to his flat,( 2mins?)

Comes back..( checks she alive 1min to 2 mins??) You've about 0 minutes left at this point to....

Then...

Moves her, from the bedroom,

 through the hallway, through the front doorway ( did he leave it open or did he have to open it again) would you want to risk someone walking through an open door as your committing a crime?

Turns left carries her down the side of the building, turns left again, carries her across the back of the building,past he bedroom window , past his bedroom window puts her down,( is it at this point he opens his own flat door?) lifts her up again and carries her through his flat ..

Put her down, get a bicycle back, and put her in it.

He leaves her in his flat, goes back to her flat, ( he's either left door open or on latch)

He then starts to clear up evidence of him being there... Takes the now infamous pizza,(is the pizza out of the packaging??) He doesn't know she's just bought it.. so say its on its way to the oven...

(So why not take the open bottle of cider?? if hes trying to make it look like shes just left)

 turns off the oven,

picks up the sock ( we know shes strangled with bare hands ... no need to take sock)

Turns off the TV

Picks up coatstand

Then what... does he wipe things down incase he touched something,

Lock the door

walk back round to his flat.

He's going to want to spend as little time as possible back in her flat... (Distance himself )



Also in this time she texted someone whilst she was in her house, her reply to `Peter was "At home on my Tod"..


Quote from Sally Ramage papers:

Quote
This is the Defence Counsel, Mr William |Clegg, QC’s opening speech:
“If Jo Yeates had stayed for just one more drink she would be alive today. If Vincent Tabak had
gone to Asda as he had planned that same time, he would not in the dock today. …
She turned on the oven to bake.
She phoned several male friends and told how she was bored.
She texted Samuel Ashcroft:
“Where are you this fine eve?”
His reply was “Home- sorry”.
She then texted Peter: “Where are you?”
Peter replied “On my way to a wedding. Where are you?”
She replied: “At home- on my todd”!
She texted a third male friend.
She has said she was bored and she was looking for company.

Did she rings these people whilst in her flat... all these actions take an amount of time, which makes me question the validity of the prosecutions case.

It's all about the Timeline, the available time Vincent Tabak could possibly have to commit the crime and cover up his tracks.


















[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 10, 2016, 01:46:28 PM
Tabak had a whole two days available to him in order to cover his tracks and destroy forensic evidence.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 02:20:17 PM
Tabak had a whole two days available to him in order to cover his tracks and destroy forensic evidence.

So if he had a whole two days as you are allowing him, to get rid of evidence and clean up the scene, why wasnt Tanja Morson called to tell the court of his constant disappearing throughout that weekend??

Did he keep her keys in his pocket. to keep going in and out of her flat? If that was the case, he'd of popped the keys down on a table not put them in her rucksack.

The door might of flung open if left on the latch, so he needs the keys with him if your scenario is to work.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 02:38:02 PM
So he cleans up after shes in his flat...

He still doesnt have enough time to :

Quote
Moves her, from the bedroom,

 through the hallway, through the front doorway ( did he leave it open or did he have to open it again) would you want to risk someone walking through an open door as your committing a crime?

Turns left carries her down the side of the building, turns left again, carries her across the back of the building,past he bedroom window , past his bedroom window puts her down,( is it at this point he opens his own flat door?) lifts her up again and carries her through his flat ..

This is a heavy dead person we're talking about... Is he not panicking?? Does he take his coat off??

All those actions would take time..


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 10, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
So if he had a whole two days as you are allowing him, to get rid of evidence and clean up the scene, why wasnt Tanja Morson called to tell the court of his constant disappearing throughout that weekend??

Did he keep her keys in his pocket. to keep going in and out of her flat? If that was the case, he'd of popped the keys down on a table not put them in her rucksack.

The door might of flung open if left on the latch, so he needs the keys with him if your scenario is to work.

I agree, there are many unanswered questions but Joanna's disappearance was not reported until two full days after her murder.  In that time Tabak had lots of opportunity to interfere with the crimescene had he chosen to do so.

His admission of guilt and his attempt to do a deal with prosecutors by admitting to manslaughter instead of murder is the clincher for me.  Crying over spilt milk now would appear to be a veritable lost cause for him.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 03:05:05 PM
I agree, there are many unanswered questions but Joanna's disappearance was not reported until two full days after her murder.  In that time Tabak had lots of opportunity to interfere with the crimescene had he chosen to do so.

His admission of guilt and his attempt to do a deal with prosecutors by admitting to manslaughter instead of murder is the clincher for me.  Crying over spilt milk now would appear to be a veritable lost cause for him.

And also someone else could have had the same opportunity to interfer with a crime scene.

Who informed Tabak that Greg would not be returning home till 8.00pm the Sunday evening??

He would have  to be fully aware of both Joanna and Gregs movements and possible movements for that said weekend!!

He'd have to know that she hadn't invited any guest round to stay, say on the Friday night... The whole of Saturday and Sunday till 8.00pm.

Or surely the alarm of her absence would have been raised sooner.

For a person that doesn't know their neighbour he'd be risking an awful lot to spend a whole weekend destroying evidence..


Just because a person admits guilt of a crime isn't evidence in itself that they have committed said crime...



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 04:52:57 PM
Quote
shes in his flat for 1 hour, before, he puts her in car boot

Now i'm thinking about prosecutions statement:

That statement in itself suggests that the prosecution knew that Vincent Tabak was in his flat for 1 hour before he goes to the Bedminster Asda.

There must be some digital evidence to place him in his flat for 1 hour before he goes to asda....

They can't just sumise that he was in his flat..

So again I'll say, when does he have the time do do the crime????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2016, 06:53:56 PM
I agree, he had two whole days in which to destroy evidence.

BUT, Tanja was around during those two days, so how did he do it ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2016, 06:57:23 PM
If the time stamps were removed from the ASDA CCTV, {as I understand was the case}, doesn't anyone think that is VERY suspect???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 07:19:29 PM
If i remember correctly, when he text Tanja, he was under a CCTV... which text is this..

The Asda one?????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 07:23:49 PM
If i remember correctly, when he text Tanja, he was under a CCTV... which text is this..

The Asda one?????

Didn't he go in and out of Asda more than once?

So What time did he drive up to the asda carpark in the first place?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 07:36:24 PM
Page 61 of Sarah ramage paper :

Quote
Clegg: Look at timeline again.
No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts.
Timeline 39- You ultimately went to Asda at approx 10.13 pm

Is Clegg saying he left home at 10:13 or was in Asda at 10:13

Because he doesnt say left your flat at 10:13

So that is left open to interpretation.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2016, 07:42:06 PM
Yes, he texted Tanja while in ASDA, apparently under a CCTV camera, and the prosecution claimed that he had deliberately done this in order to give himself an alibi.

However, Vincent and Tanja were in the habit of texting/phoning each other all the time.

It was also claimed that Vincent went to ASDA in order to get caught on CCTV, in order to give himself an alibi.  He could have gone to a smaller supermarket, which was nearer, and why on earth would he have wanted to drive further afield in bad weather, if not to give himself an alibi??

However, Greg drove all the way to Sheffield in the same bad weather, and nobody questioned that!

Vincent worked as a people flow analyst, meaning that he studied the flow of people around buildings.  Perhaps large supermarkets really were interesting to him, as he claimed!  Perhaps the smaller supermarket didn't stock the brand of beer he liked----who knows???  There is really nothing very suspect about him having gone to the bigger supermarket. 

And, what did he buy in there?  Beer, crisps and rock salt------not bleach, plastic bags, cleaning rags !!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 08:00:11 PM
Yes, he texted Tanja while in ASDA, apparently under a CCTV camera, and the prosecution claimed that he had deliberately done this in order to give himself an alibi.

However, Vincent and Tanja were in the habit of texting/phoning each other all the time.

It was also claimed that Vincent went to ASDA in order to get caught on CCTV, in order to give himself an alibi.  He could have gone to a smaller supermarket, which was nearer, and why on earth would he have wanted to drive further afield in bad weather, if not to give himself an alibi??

However, Greg drove all the way to Sheffield in the same bad weather, and nobody questioned that!

Vincent worked as a people flow analyst, meaning that he studied the flow of people around buildings.  Perhaps large supermarkets really were interesting to him, as he claimed!  Perhaps the smaller supermarket didn't stock the brand of beer he liked----who knows???  There is really nothing very suspect about him having gone to the bigger supermarket. 

And, what did he buy in there?  Beer, crisps and rock salt------not bleach, plastic bags, cleaning rags !!!

I don't see anything suspicious about him going to the Big Supermarket, it passed time, he was bored..

And quite honestly he didn't need to be under a CCTV writing a text, the phone provider would have a complete record of this, with (time stamps) without him having to make a song and dance about texting Tanja.


Another thing that quite suprised me, was the lack of quality of the CCTV on the suspension Bridge, so they couldn't make out any cars that drove along it,..(Driver.. number plate etc)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/222191/Poor-CCTV-film-may-let-Joanna-Yeates-killer-escape

Why have CCTV on a road that cannot take pictures of vehicles???

whats the point of them??

Whilst writing this i thought,... hang on a minute, Does Clifton Suspension Bridge have a toll?

http://www.cliftonbridge.org.uk/

So now, how on earth would any driver get across that Bridge without:

A: Paying or

B: smashing through the barriers??

How would they ever be able to chase up someone who didn't pay?
So there must be clear CCTV of the suspension bridge and all the vehicles that crossed it!!


So on that token, that can't prove or disprove that Tabak or Greg went along Clifton Suspension Bridge..
Or anyone else for that matter!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 08:47:53 PM
There's a topic on this forum called
Quote
Topic: Are 'Murder by Stranger' victims ever removed from the scene of the crime?  (Read 6874 times)

They also find it diffcult for statistics of a stranger murder moving a body from the scene of the crime.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 10, 2016, 10:05:40 PM
There's a topic on this forum called
They also find it diffcult for statistics of a stranger murder moving a body from the scene of the crime.

This is an interesting read:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-RoxDQAAQBAJ&pg=PT156&lpg=PT156&dq=are+murder+by+stranger+victims+ever+moved+from+the+scene+of+the+crime?&source=bl&ots=5MaFsqzT01&sig=gybhYyrMRtS5uW7AASQwDw6beac&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjku4Oll5_QAhXICsAKHTVnC0AQ6AEIKjAD#v=onepage&q=are%20murder%20by%20stranger%20victims%20ever%20moved%20from%20the%20scene%20of%20the%20crime%3F&f=false
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 10, 2016, 10:50:59 PM
Thanks Mercury and John.

You see, this is one of the things I cannot get my head around.  Without forensic evidence from the flat, nobody can prove he killed her there, as (as far as I am aware), nobody saw VT enter Jo's flat, nobody saw them together that night, and nothing belonging to VT was found in Jo's flat. They only have VT's confession to rely on, and surely they would need to back this up with other evidence.

We do not know for sure that Jo was ever put into VT's cycle bag.  If Tanja had been called as a witness, she might have been able to tell the court whether or not VT owned a cycle bag, and whether this was missing.

And, there was that front door!  VT apparently aroused suspicion in the police officer who interviewed him in Holland, because he asked questions regarding why the front door had been removed. Either he was merely interested in how the forensic team do their investigations (so am I, for that matter), or he was afraid of his DNA being found on that door (the official line).  Nobody in court actually said whether or not there was any forensic evidence leading to him on that door!

Re his dna it was found on her body and although they couldnt say what substance it came from (weak samples apparently and not surprised if body was covered in snow) they said it was billion to one from him

Its under the dna section in this very thorough page

http://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/tabak-vincent.htm

There are some niggles in this case, doesnt mean they are big red flags without any explanation

As in the Knox case, a red flag is accusng someone else and I believe VT pointed the finger at the landlord
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 11, 2016, 12:10:55 AM
You could be right, but it is well known that enhanced DNA can be unreliable.  I remember reading that the DNA found on Joanna's body would not have been enough to convict VT.

As far as him implicating the landlord is concerned, that is what the prosecution said, and VT was, indeed, given extra years on his sentence because it was said that he had done this.

Again, he MIGHT have done, but on the other hand, he might merely have wanted to help the police by giving them extra information.  All the neighbours, when originally questioned, were invited to telephone the police "if they remembered anything else".  Chris Jefferies did this, and was then arrested.  VT did so, and was then arrested.  Very strange!

Both Vincent AND Tanja (apparently) noticed that CJ's car was pointing in a different direction on the Saturday morning to on the Friday night, and they decided to telephone the police from Holland, having heard that CJ had been taken into custody.  Some accounts say that it was Tanja who made the phone call, but it isn't entirely clear which of them made it. A police officer then travelled to Holland to interview them, and they took a sample of Vincent's DNA. The interview took six hours, and filled around 18 pages of the officer's notebook, so they can't just have been talking about CJ's car!  Incidentally, this was when VT asked why the front door of JY's flat had been removed (he had seen this on the TV) and the officer became suspicious of him because he was taking so much interest in the investigation.

As CJ never appeared as a witness in court, we never heard whether or not he had, in fact, moved his car. I have not read anything that says he denied having done so. ( He does in the film "The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies", but parts of that film were fictional.  ). 

I cannot really see why it is implicating somebody to say that his car appeared to be facing the other way! If VT had really wanted to implicate the landlord, why not say that he had seen him letting himself into JY's flat, or that he had seen him talking to JY that night?


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 11, 2016, 12:27:49 AM
Again, he MIGHT have done, but on the other hand, he might merely have wanted to help the police by giving them extra information.  All the neighbours, when originally questioned, were invited to telephone the police "if they remembered anything else".  Chris Jefferies did this, and was then arrested.  VT did so, and was then arrested.  Very strange!

--

Not the same

VT confessed to killing jo after he
He fingered the landlord

I think youre on a non starter here that VT was fitted up

as i said in older posts NO ONE in his famiky afaiaw are protesting his innocence, another red flag dont you thnk? If not, why?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 11, 2016, 12:57:35 AM
I DO think it is odd that VT's family has been so quiet.  However, they are not in this country, and they may well be thinking that, if they dont make any fuss, VT will be deported to serve out his sentence in Holland.  They might have been told this, and I am sure it is what they will be wanting.  Families don't give up on their own even if they are convicted murderers. 

I also think it is odd that the press has been so quiet.  I would have expected some journalist to have sniffed out details of Greg's and Tanya's new "love interests" by now!  I would also have expected something on the lines of "Dining with the Dutch Devil:  former cellmate reveals what flavour of pizza he really likes"  or some similar unedifying, salacious rubbish to have emerged: VT best of friends with Ian Huntley or Nathan Matthews, for example.

Has the press been muzzled?

On the other hand, perhaps they have learned their lessons, after their treatment of Chris Jefferies.  Perhaps they think everybody only wants to hear about Brexit and Donald Trump.

I wish!!!   Hm    Hm

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 11, 2016, 07:57:28 AM
Again, he MIGHT have done, but on the other hand, he might merely have wanted to help the police by giving them extra information.  All the neighbours, when originally questioned, were invited to telephone the police "if they remembered anything else".  Chris Jefferies did this, and was then arrested.  VT did so, and was then arrested.  Very strange!

--

Not the same

VT confessed to killing jo after he
He fingered the landlord

I think youre on a non starter here that VT was fitted up

as i said in older posts NO ONE in his famiky afaiaw are protesting his innocence, another red flag dont you thnk? If not, why?

But it could quite easily have been Chris Jefferies, they had in the frame, they originally arrested him because he said he saw 3 people leaving Joanna yeates Flat around 9.00pm on the night.

He was parking his car on the street.


All I'm saying is I'm not convinced to the events the police say took place.

If the Forensic lab that helped convict Tabak are sloppy, how is the DNA not questionable.

And chaplains dont tell confessions..

And no stomach contents make me feel like something happened to her later, there is no conclusive time of death.

Also the removal of all the discussion pages at the time is rather odd..

There were tenants/ neighbours who contributed to the orignal discussions as events unfolded.

Does that mean that this discusssion thread will be removed??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 11, 2016, 01:05:03 PM
Quote
Police await forensic test results on 'highly significant' item of evidence
Charity shop searched for missing sock after tip-off
Sicko sends pizza label to pub where Jo had last drink


Quote
Police hunting the killer of Jo Yeates have fresh hope today after a series of new revelations.
Chief among them is a 'highly significant' piece of new evidence that has been handed to them and which is undergoing a series of forensic tests.
In keeping with the investigation so far, the police have not revealed details of what the item is, but it is understood that it is not the sock that was missing from her body when it was discovered on Christmas Day.


What was the significant piece of evidence, and was it ever linked to Tabak????

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1345938/Joanna-Yeates-murder-The-final-text-friend-replied-late.html#ixzz4PhlGl1SE
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 11, 2016, 02:29:46 PM
Dont think it was ever revealed what that piece of evidence was.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 10:40:06 AM
Quote
Miss Yeates had got home after drinks and “settled down for the evening when she was interrupted by Vincent Tabak”.

https://www.channel4.com/news/yeates-accused-appears-in-court-in-bristol

Now this throws up a few questions:

Contradition in terms:

Had she got comfy at home, relaxing infront of the TV before Tabak arrived?

Which still means she would have to arrive kick off boots, put shopping in kitchen, turn oven on, open and drink half bottle of cider.

It sounds like she was sat down with her drink of cider Watching something on TV!

How did they know that the TV was on?? Tabak didnt have to mention turning TV off??

Why do the prosecution know she was relaxing?

You get less and less time.

Thought their idea was he just went straight round after she arrived home and attacked her??

So did she have time to SETTLE DOWN as the prosecution say or was she attacked as she ARRIVED HOME??

Think about it... whats your idea of settling down when you arrive home?

The date of the article is 10th oct 2011

so it was said in court.









Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 12, 2016, 10:00:15 PM
I DO think it is odd that VT's family has been so quiet.  However, they are not in this country, and they may well be thinking that, if they dont make any fuss, VT will be deported to serve out his sentence in Holland.  They might have been told this, and I am sure it is what they will be wanting.  Families don't give up on their own even if they are convicted murderers. 

I also think it is odd that the press has been so quiet.  I would have expected some journalist to have sniffed out details of Greg's and Tanya's new "love interests" by now!  I would also have expected something on the lines of "Dining with the Dutch Devil:  former cellmate reveals what flavour of pizza he really likes"  or some similar unedifying, salacious rubbish to have emerged: VT best of friends with Ian Huntley or Nathan Matthews, for example.

Has the press been muzzled?

On the other hand, perhaps they have learned their lessons, after their treatment of Chris Jefferies.  Perhaps they think everybody only wants to hear about Brexit and Donald Trump.

I wish!!!   Hm    Hm

His parents must believe his confession too
You make a good point about the paper stories being absent but he did plead guilty,and protested it was not murder, but just a mad moment, those that have committed heinous crimes and child murders are violently attacked in prisons

I dont see any justification for snooping into the boyfriends current life as its not relevant or anyones busness,why would it be
The Leveson inquiry probably has somethng to do with this as well
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 12, 2016, 10:39:25 PM
Yes, you are absolutely right that the boyfriend's private life is none of anyone's business-----however, some unscrupulous journalists don't normally care whether the stuff they print is anyone's business or not!!

I don't believe there ever was an anonymous tip off, actually. His girlfriend stood by him when he was first arrested, and even visited him in prison.

And usually, if people have been beaten up/attacked in prison (Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe, for example), that is exactly the sort of thing the papers do report!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
His parents must believe his confession too
You make a good point about the paper stories being absent but he did plead guilty,and protested it was not murder, but just a mad moment, those that have committed heinous crimes and child murders are violently attacked in prisons

I dont see any justification for snooping into the boyfriends current life as its not relevant or anyones busness,why would it be
The Leveson inquiry probably has somethng to do with this as well

Hi mercury


There's been nothing to substantiate the sobbing girl, it wasnt played in court was it?? (I'm not sure)


That could have simply been a Red Herring to make the culprit feel uncomfortable, and give away his guilt at hearing the news.


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 10:46:33 PM
I don't see anything suspicious about him going to the Big Supermarket, it passed time, he was bored..

And quite honestly he didn't need to be under a CCTV writing a text, the phone provider would have a complete record of this, with (time stamps) without him having to make a song and dance about texting Tanja.


Another thing that quite suprised me, was the lack of quality of the CCTV on the suspension Bridge, so they couldn't make out any cars that drove along it,..(Driver.. number plate etc)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/222191/Poor-CCTV-film-may-let-Joanna-Yeates-killer-escape

Why have CCTV on a road that cannot take pictures of vehicles???

whats the point of them??

Whilst writing this i thought,... hang on a minute, Does Clifton Suspension Bridge have a toll?

http://www.cliftonbridge.org.uk/

So now, how on earth would any driver get across that Bridge without:

A: Paying or

B: smashing through the barriers??

How would they ever be able to chase up someone who didn't pay?
So there must be clear CCTV of the suspension bridge and all the vehicles that crossed it!!


So on that token, that can't prove or disprove that Tabak or Greg went along Clifton Suspension Bridge..
Or anyone else for that matter!!!

Extract from daily mail:

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.
‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics.
'Before this breakthrough the investigation was close to hitting a brick wall. They had interviewed Miss Yeates’s landlord but nothing materialised from it and there was no concrete evidence linking him in any way to the murder.
‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349615/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabak-charged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz4PpyeMNSI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Thought they could identify cars going over the bridge?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 12, 2016, 10:50:16 PM
Yes, you are absolutely right that the boyfriend's private life is none of anyone's business-----however, some unscrupulous journalists don't normally care whether the stuff they print is anyone's business or not!!

I don't believe there ever was an anonymous tip off, actually. His girlfriend she stood by him when he was first arrested, and even visited him in prison.

And usually, if people have been beaten up/attacked in prison (Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe, for example), that is exactly the sort of thing the papers do report!
Then maybe he hasnt been attacked

So who was the anonymous call from? thatgave his name and why not sooner?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 12, 2016, 10:52:16 PM
Hi mercury


There's been nothing to substanciate the sobbing girl, it wasnt played in court was it?? (I'm not sure)


That could have simply been a Red Herring to make the culprit feel uncomfortable, and give away his guilt at hearing the news.
How is it a red herring if the call ledthe police to arrest him
If it was a red herring what led the police to arrest him then?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 10:53:46 PM
Dont think it was ever revealed what that piece of evidence was.

I don t know what it could be, but its obviously an item of some description..

At first when i read it... I read it wrong, thought significant piece of evidence was the DNA.. but it actually says it was handed to them, I wonder what it could be and why it wasn't used in court..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 11:10:26 PM
How is it a red herring if the call ledthe police to arrest him
If it was a red herring what led the police to arrest him then?

Police tactics in unveiling criminals are many fold, for example to get a confession out of a person say for a crime of passion, they may suggest that they understand how they were pushed to commit said crime, leaving the perpetrator feeling that they have a friend someone who understands them.

Didn't the Police say that when they went to visit Tabak in Holland thats where they decided it was him.. The lady detective said in a video that at first Tabak declined to give a sample of DNA, thats what she saw as a Red Flag as far as he was concerned.

She telephone avon and somerset police immediateley, thats when Vincent Tabak came into their sights.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 12, 2016, 11:22:07 PM
The apparent tip off from the "sobbing girl" was not mentioned during the trial, as far as I know.  It was in the newspapers, and given as the reason why VT was arrested, but nobody ever identified the sobbing girl, and there is no evidence that she ever existed.

As far as we know, VT came under suspicion after he was interviewed in Holland on New Years Eve.  He changed his story by saying that he went to ASDA, when, in  his previous statement to the police , he had said that he had been in all evening until he collected his girlfriend from the coach.  Also, he took a lot of interest in why the front door to JY's flat had been removed (he had seen this on the telly while in Holland). At least, this is what the papers were reporting at the time!  It was said that the police went to interview him in Holland because he and his girlfriend had telephoned them about the position of the landlord's car, BUT the interview in Holland lasted for 6 hours, so they must have been talking about a lot of other things too.  Nobody knows exactly what, as the police have never revealed it.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 12, 2016, 11:27:42 PM
Dont think VT ever declined to give a DNA sample, but he was surprised and reluctant at first.  This COULD be because he was guilty, or it COULD be because he had telephoned the police in order to be helpful, and suddenly he realised that he was , perhaps, being thought of as a suspect.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 12, 2016, 11:35:05 PM
Police tactics in unveiling criminals are many fold, for example to get a confession out of a person say for a crime of passion, they may suggest that they understand how they were pushed to commit said crime, leaving the perpetrator feeling that they have a friend someone who understands them.

Didn't the Police say that when they went to visit Tabak in Holland thats where they decided it was him.. The lady detective said in a video that at first Tabak declined to give a sample of DNA, thats what she saw as a Red Flag as far as he was concerned.

She telephone avon and somerset police immediateley, thats when Vincent Tabak came into their sights.

Ok i get what youre saying and Only the police and those close to them know how they work
But why would police need a reason apart from their own work to suspect and charge someone? Why wouldnt a policewomans suspicions /judgements be enough? You dont need to answer that Im just thnking out loud
What a headache
I dont believe he is innocent
The case against him might have holes (ie he liked strangulation porn etc) but it was probably right...and all his internet searches after it are quite damning
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 12, 2016, 11:36:09 PM
The apparent tip off from the "sobbing girl" was not mentioned during the trial, as far as I know.  It was in the newspapers, and given as the reason why VT was arrested, but nobody ever identified the sobbing girl, and there is no evidence that she ever existed.

As far as we know, VT came under suspicion after he was interviewed in Holland on New Years Eve.  He changed his story by saying that he went to ASDA, when, in  his previous statement to the police , he had said that he had been in all evening until he collected his girlfriend from the coach.  Also, he took a lot of interest in why the front door to JY's flat had been removed (he had seen this on the telly while in Holland). At least, this is what the papers were reporting at the time!  It was said that the police went to interview him in Holland because he and his girlfriend had telephoned them about the position of the landlord's car, BUT the interview in Holland lasted for 6 hours, so they must have been talking about a lot of other things too.  Nobody knows exactly what, as the police have never revealed it.

Fact she was sobbing tends to it being the gf imo
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 12, 2016, 11:45:50 PM
Fact she was sobbing tends to it being the gf imo

Was it ever said what the content of the sobbing girls phone call was about?

Did she Infact say it was  Vincent Tabak?

Was it played to the Jury?


Because that would then be a Damning piece of evidence!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 13, 2016, 12:14:57 AM
The Police have always told us about The Missing Tesco's pizza and The Sock..

Why didnt they tell us about the smashed console,

They didnt tell us to look out for a broken console along with the Pizza and the Sock, surely a big piece of evidence with finger prints on it..

I refer to the console because I didn't know about it , whilst reading Sally Ramages pages ,on page 84

Quote
I don’t know.
The screams were heard 40 minutes before you texted Sonja.
No. I don’t know.
The apron dropped near to the door?
I don’t know?
Shhards of console- did you do that?
I don’t know.
POr of her knickers by the door. Did you put them there?
I don’t know.
Earrings in the bedroom

Was The Console the item handed in to Avon and Somerset Police??

Why didn't they look for it??

Or do they have the console in the evidence collected, if so why wasn't,t it in court evidence?


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2016, 12:25:29 AM
I believe the "sobbing girl" was forgotten about once VT had been arrested and charged, and , as far as I recall, she was never mentioned at the trial. A number of people on various forums have questioned this. 

As for computer evidence, I just hope that I never get questioned by the police regarding a murder, as they would probably nail me immediately if they were to see my internet searches! They would probably say I had become corrupted by reading true crime stuff, and that I had become "inspired" by Vincent Tabak !

I would then need a cohort of good friends and lawyers to persuade the police that a 60 something, five feet tall woman with arthritis could not have possibly dunnit!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 13, 2016, 09:38:34 AM
Extract from daily mail:

Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.
‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics.
'Before this breakthrough the investigation was close to hitting a brick wall. They had interviewed Miss Yeates’s landlord but nothing materialised from it and there was no concrete evidence linking him in any way to the murder.
‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349615/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabak-charged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz4PpyeMNSI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Thought they could identify cars going over the bridge?

Just re reading my post, quite often it takes a while for the light to turn on... ( i first read it as just a driver, but i think they mean VT) In any case they could see one driver clearly.

If the Police had interviewed Vincent Tabak because they saw his car go over the bridge, why didnt they use the CCTV as evidence??

Why was it clear enough one day to identify the driver but, its not clear cctv footage to use in court?

I don't understand
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 13, 2016, 11:52:35 AM
Re his dna it was found on her body and although they couldnt say what substance it came from (weak samples apparently and not surprised if body was covered in snow) they said it was billion to one from him

Its under the dna section in this very thorough page

http://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/tabak-vincent.htm

There are some niggles in this case, doesnt mean they are big red flags without any explanation

As in the Knox case, a red flag is accusng someone else and I believe VT pointed the finger at the landlord

The murderpedia states that Tabak left his home at 10.00pm

Jo's in his flat for an hour, gives even less time for events to take place.

I'm not convinced, with the timelines,...  the media used the CCTV image of Tabak driving around Bristol, saying he was looking for somewhere to dump Jo..

Even though the CCTV image  doesn't have a timestamp it has a date stamp for the 18th Dec, which is after Midnight, and according to murderpedia tabak was home at midnight and didn't go out again until he went to pick up Tanja!!

So I'm interested about the CCTV footage showing him driving around trying to find a place to get rid of Jo..


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mercury on November 13, 2016, 10:08:36 PM
Hi nine

I never followed this case much
I dont thnk the vincent is innocent blog is unbiased
I would like to think the uk police dont fit people up in this day and age
I just dont know though
I dont though believe he was forced to confess or drugged to or drugged throughout the trial

Alot of the questions people have have to do with police secrecy, right or wrong in their investigations....perhaps the british police should take a leaf from other countries and release their police files after a case is ended... Yeah ok

But its a fact that secrecy can protect abuses of the system...it sooo should be removed as much as possible
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 13, 2016, 10:37:38 PM
Found another law paper about the trial ,which has given me a clearer understanding as to why, the searches that Vincent Tabak did, where not admissable..(Its by Sally Ramage again, it layed out better and seems to have more info..)

Also how safe the metadata they produced saying Vincent Tabak did A B and C is probably  lost and gone forever, As the defence didnt question this so called evidence and it can't be reproduced, Does that make it evidence???


page 29
Quote
11.1. Abuse of process
To use this law to prove the guilt of Dr Tabak in as serious an offence as murder can be
interpreted by some as an abuse of process and it is too late for a judicial review on this
point, because the trial did go ahead with he trial and the trial has concluded. The law of
presenting computer ‘evidence’ is intended to be used for accounting and banking
transactions and not murder, ie. what the accused did with the money , not what was in his
mind when he looked at a webpage. Some would argue that murder cannot be committed
by looking at a webpage, whereas fraud can be committed by making an electronic
transaction which can be put to evidence. Looking at a webpage cannot be the cause of
murder.


http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

page 32
Quote
14.2. Significance of computer document is the defendant’s reaction to it
In ex parte Levin, it was assumed that section 69 of the 1984 PACE (now repealed) would
have to be complied with. In such a case, the reliability and accuracy of the computer are
obviously relevant. In other cases, however, they have no relevance at all. The significance
of the computer generated document lies not in its accuracy, but in the defendant's
behaviour in relation to it. In this case, Dr Tabak looked at webpages. Hypothetically, this
evidence could have been created for purpose and since the defence experts were not
allowed to examine it, all the metadata which shows when and who created it, to whom it
was forwarded, etc, has been lost forever. It is much too late at trial, and so this evidence
should be excluded because all the metadata has since been lost. It would not have been
difficult for the prosecution’s exper to show he live documents . Documentary copies set
up in a database alongside other documents alleging electronic conversations, etc. has
corrupted all the live evidence and its metadata.

Did the defence or anyone, check the reliability of Tabak computer?

Quote
12.1. Any evidence will go to weight unless unreliability is proved
Prior to the repeal of section 69 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 by the
Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999, s. 60, it was necessary to prove the
reliability of the computer before any statement in a document produced by a computer
could be admitted in evidence. This applied, whichever category the information fell
within. See R v Shephard.
41 The repeal of s. 69 PACE means that any evidence
pertaining to the reliability of a computer will go to weight.
page 31

Quote
14.3. The relevance that Dr Tabak viewed certain online pages
Dr Tabak- if he did look at internet pages, did not print them.
He did not use them.
He did not act on the information in them.
He did not act in response to them.
He did not annotate them.
It is the defendant's behaviour in relation to the print-out that is important.
Therefore, there is no hearsay element involved and no reliability issue.
But as Dr Tabak did not print out this information, this is not relevant to his case.

So when they showed the supposed picture after the trial of a girl in a pink t-shirt in a car boot, it played on the sympathies of the general public,.. did this image infact come from vincent Tabaks, computer.

Because the press implied that Tabak had recreated the image he was supposed to have on his computer, thus it drove him to kill Joanna yeates.

And if this evidence is hard to recreate the exact time and how the image came to be how do we know for sure ,Tabak had it on his computer.

I know myself when i put information into google, google itself sometimes decides what I am looking for, and because im not concentrating on the search bar i press enter.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131210/07555625519/lawsuit-claims-accidental-google-search-led-to-years-government-investigation-harrassment.shtml

Quote
"In October of 2009, Kantor used the search engine Google to try to find, 'How do I build a radio-controlled airplane,'" he states in his complaint. "He ran this search a couple weeks before the birthday of his son with the thought of building one together as a birthday present. After typing, 'how do I build a radio controlled', Google auto-completed his search to, 'how do I build a radio controlled bomb.'"

Accidental porn hits are known and in 2012 google change the searches to prevent this from taking place

http://www.cio.com/article/2389773/online-safety/google-adjusts-image-search-to-avoid-accidental-porn-hits.html


So who said that Vincent Tabak intended to look up the difference between Murder and manslaughter? Or intended to look at porn? Without a printout of the said searches, how is it possible to prove he meant to look at what was entered into the search engine?

So There is no evidence to prove Intent at all.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 13, 2016, 11:20:48 PM
Hi nine

I never followed this case much
I dont thnk the vincent is innocent blog is unbiased
I would like to think the uk police dont fit people up in this day and age
I just dont know though
I dont though believe he was forced to confess or drugged to or drugged throughout the trial

Alot of the questions people have have to do with police secrecy, right or wrong in their investigations....perhaps the british police should take a leaf from other countries and release their police files after a case is ended... Yeah ok

But its a fact that secrecy can protect abuses of the system...it sooo should be removed as much as possible

Hi Mercury

I wish they would release things from the trial... I'd honestly would love to spend the time sifting through the 1300 page document of the timelines, because it was presented to the defence on the day of the trial, they didnt have enough time to go through it properly.

And when I read certain aspects of the case and they go backwards and forwards to try to confuse, it infact does that..

For instance, the third text Joanna recieves appears that she gets it after she is home, because she has already replied to Peter..
Quote
She phoned several male friends and told how she was bored.
She texted Samuel Ashcroft:
“Where are you this fine eve?”
His reply was “Home- sorry”.
She then texted Peter: “Where are you?”
Peter replied “On my way to a wedding. Where are you?”
She replied: “At home- on my todd”!
She texted a third male friend.
She has said she was bored and she was looking for company.
page 51 sally ramage papers

I dont understand why they didnt say that it was MW, which i posted a link to on an earlier post.

What time was that text, because in the paper they said 8.20.. but that couldnt be correct because she was at home.. so was it later??  if so which time. And why don't they mention his name??

The police May have or may not have anything to hide, then they should be more transparent and it would stop people questioning , what is the official line is on certain events..

People do and have admitted to a crime they haven't committed, I cannot guess why Vincent Tabak might have done that... That's like me imaging whats going on in your head right now..I don't know...

And i don't know why he admitted guilt. (unless he did it... But.. And there it is... theres always a But) Not having his girlfriend especially testify in court and no one as a character witness is very strange indeed..

I would have at least expected Tanja to give her account of the weekend and the days leading up to Vincent Tabaks arrest in person. She was in a prime position to explain what his behaviour was like and if she felt it was different to his usual self.. If he didnt sleep properly, if he drank excessively. If she found him secretive.

If things looked different in their flat when she arrived back home after the party? lots of little niggly questions.


Statistically strangers do not move strangers bodies from home crime scene. (this puzzles me)

But I still have many questions And some I fear may be uncomfortable.

And i genuinley do not want to be disrepectful...

But its difficult when you end up asking uncomfortable questions not to appear like you are being disrespectful

And i'm truly not
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 01:05:42 AM
The prison Chaplain:

Very important because this is what lead to Vincent Tabak pleading guilty, as events seem to suggest:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2011/10/12/the-joanna-yeates-trial-and-the-salvation-army-chaplain-who-heard-a-confession-of-murder/


Ive never heard of a priest telling confessions...... who would ever trust them???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 10:49:21 AM
I have a question?

What do people think about the defence that Vincent Tabak recieved?

Do you think he had a good defence from his Lawyer?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 11:50:27 AM
what do people think as regards he was found guilty of murder?

Was it murder or was it manslaughter?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 14, 2016, 12:34:58 PM
Goodness, Nine and Mercury, you have been busy!!

It was not a satisfactory trial, partly because VT had pleaded guilty to manslaughter.  Therefore, nobody was asking "Did he do it?"  He had already said he had done it, so the lawyers in court didn't have to worry about that. They just needed to determine whether or not he meant to do it.  I have always thought it was a pity he didn't plead not guilty, then a lot more evidence would have come out at the trial, and people such as Tanja, Chris Jefferies, work colleagues, etc perhaps would have been called to testify.

That is partly why some of us are left with a lot of unanswered questions! 

Jo's murder appalled and disgusted the whole country (and rightly so), and I am sure the vast majority of people were relieved that someone was charged, tried and imprisoned for it.  People tend to think that if somebody is charged, then the police must surely "have something on them", and they dont question this.  They are just relieved that a killer is no longer walking the streets.  We are supposed to consider a suspect innocent until proved guilty, but I don't think people do in general----look at how poor Chris Jefferies was vilified, and he hadn't even been charged!

Most people don't question the tactics of the police , but people DO get stitched up sometimes, and the police DO sometimes make mistakes.  The police were under immense pressure to solve Joanna's murder.  If they hadn't , they would have had the indignity of police from elsewhere coming in to help them, or to take the case over. They had already made one mistake, and police have targets to reach, just like anyone else in a job. If a murderer is not caught, the police get the blame, and the media let everyone know about it!

We have to accept  and respect the verdicts of juries, because the law says we must, but jury members are just members of the public, like us.  They are not trained in law---in fact, I believe you can't serve on a jury if you are a lawyer.  People vary as to how "hardline" or how "liberal" they are when confronted by a defendant, and I would imagine that a lot of people are so disgusted by the crime that they are only too ready to find the defendant guilty, and that they don't ask too many questions.  You only have to read people's comments about criminals on the internet----many people are of the "lock them up and throw away the key " mentality, and many believe in capital punishment.

As for prosecution and defence barristers, I did read somewhere that winning is as important to them (or even sometimes more important) than getting to the truth.  I don't know whether that is true or not, so I won't comment any further!!!

I have already said what I think about computer evidence!!  Sally Ramage does mention that in the Tabak case it could have been concocted by the prosecution, or something to that effect.  Until I read that, I would not have believed that such a thing could happen!

I know a very law abiding and decent man who genuinely believes that it is possible to strangle somebody accidentally during sex.  Well, one learns something every day!!! 

As you know, I lean towards the feeling that VT did not kill Jo at all.  There is no motive (apart from sex, and I just dont believe that in his case:  he had only ever had one girlfriend, and he didn't even know Jo).  There is also no clear consensus on WHERE she died or WHEN she died.  We only know HOW she died.  If those questions cannot be answered, how can somebody be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt? 

It may well be the case that the police know far more than has ever been revealed to the public, and if that is so, I am sure they have good reasons for it.  However, while there are so many ifs and buts, of course some people are going to be asking questions!  It is human nature.  Lucky for the jury that they didnt have me on it!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 12:57:46 PM
Well you were busy too mrswah

I'd like to know what people think about the Intent?

He was found guilty of murder,

Did the prosecution show intent,

Or is there another reason people think that Vincent Tabak went round to Joanna Yeates flat to kill her?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 14, 2016, 02:53:41 PM

From what I have read, the fact that Joanna had 43 injuries led people to believe VT intended her harm.  However, we do not know when or how all these injuries were sustained. If they needed fire equipment and a crane to retrieve her body, some of the injuries would have been sustained then, also some might have resulted from being exposed to the snow---we just dont know.  She DID have a lot of bruises though, which can only be sustained when someone is alive, so it was obviously a violent attack on her-----it's just that I think someone other than VT did it!!  So, yes, I think it was murder----but not because of "sex" and not by VT.

Also, people don't generally believe that it is possible to strangle someone by accident, although, as I said before, I know a very decent man who disagrees with this !!!!

Also, it was thought that VT lied in court.  He said that he wanted to kiss Jo, but denied that this was sexual.  Well, I wouldn't have believed that one either!!  However, most people think VT lied in court because he wanted to make himself look less bad than he actually was.  I would say that he lied in court because he was told what to say in the first place. 


 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 14, 2016, 06:53:41 PM
Tabak was in the house when Jo Yeates was on her last known evening alive.  He was alone and had no alibi.  He said he did it.  There is a wealth of evidence to back up his admission.  You can play these sorts of games on pretty much any case you want, indeed there are people on the internet convinced that Ian Huntley was stitched up and that Sarah Payne's murderer is a lovely man wrongly convicted.  What purpose this serves other than to make you feel like Miss Marple I do not know.  Put yourselves in the shoes of the victim's familiy for a moment and then tell me that what you're doing here is in their best interests.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 14, 2016, 08:02:31 PM
Very well said Alfie. This game could run and run but as you say he said he did it!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 08:17:17 PM
Very well said Alfie. This game could run and run but as you say he said he did it!


This is not a game,
Its to look at miscarriages of justice:  That is what the site is about'

Find Damien Echols on Twitter and tell him his conviction was correct and the American Goverment should have executed him.

He was one of the West Memphis Three, and even though originally they said he did it.... HE DIDNT!!

You can't try to shut people up because you don't agree with them, having your say is what a discussion is all about, your right to have your own opinions and they my differ from other people.

But saying he's in prison job done,...  Walk away don't talk about it, .. will never stop other people voicing their concerns over his conviction.

And I do not think people are being disrespectful, it's easy to throw such a word about to undermine someones viewpoint.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 14, 2016, 08:23:28 PM
As you used a quote from me, I hope you aren't saying I am trying to shut anyone up. You seem to be doing just fine talking to your alter ego!

It seems that you don't like anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas of justice and the fight you have to see innocence even when guilt has been proven, the person has been sentenced and isn't complaining!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 14, 2016, 08:37:42 PM
As you used a quote from me, I hope you aren't saying I am trying to shut anyone up. You seem to be doing just fine talking to your alter ego!

It seems that you don't like anyone who doesn't agree with your ideas of justice and the fight you have to see innocence even when guilt has been proven, the person has been sentenced and isn't complaining!

jixy can i ask you what you thought about the porn tabak viewed and how that influenced your view of Vincent Tabak?

It is not about ego, I'm trying to understand how Vincent Tabak could have had the time to Kill Joanna as the prosecution have stated..

Because with the little timelines that are available, I honestly can't see him having the time or the reason for going around to her house in the first place.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 14, 2016, 08:42:12 PM
I think you totally misunderstood my post...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 14, 2016, 11:01:28 PM
Alfie and Jixy, we are not playing games here.  We are debating:  as far as I am aware, that is what people do on forums like this.

As for the effect on victims' families, nobody intends any disrespect to them, as I have said before. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and are entitled to air them, even if the victim's family may not like it. It is called free speech!! In any case, I very much doubt whether Jo's family are reading our posts.

I do agree, however, with what Alfie says regarding Ian Huntley.  I have read a lot of stuff on the internet about people thinking he is innocent, and, having done my research, I reckon he is as guilty as sin. I think Vincent Tabak is rather different though, and I don't actually think there is much good evidence at all pointing to his guilt.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 12:57:55 AM
I was hoping to find more timelines and i have,.. They are about Vincent Tabaks computer searches.

One particular entry caught my eye from these papers:

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


Page 44

 
Quote
At this point the jury on Wednesday morning 19 October 2011, were invited to write into
their copy of the prosecution chart where they see the words typed in by Tabak
‘definition’ before the words ‘sexual conduct’. The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.

How can they change the evidence, right under peoples noses???

It completely changes the context of the search and how it was implied to make Tabak's look.

He can't add to the evidence in court, why on earth didn't his lawyer object??


Iv'e tried googling Sexual Conduct or Definition of Sexual Conduct, but it always comes up with (Sexual Misconduct), so did he click on it?

I'm still astounded that the Judge allowed this to happen, was he asleep??
 
Where is the proof that Tabak actually wrote the word "DEFINITION" in a search engine with regards sexual conduct??

The jury have now gone away with an annotation on their copy of the prosecutions chart.

Hiow can he invite the jury to add something that they havent got in evidence?

Quote
The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.

How can it be more accurate??

More accurate for whom??
If the prosecution has made an error, he can't just decide to correct it in court, (how does that work)

Tabak didn't write a sentence, he wrote TWO WORDS,



I don't know what people think about this but..
I'm gobsmacked.....








Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 01:14:15 AM
If you searched the two words were "Miss Yeates"
Then you add the word "Murdered"

Then search "Murdered Miss yeates" you have two different answers
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 15, 2016, 11:26:51 AM
From what I have read, the fact that Joanna had 43 injuries led people to believe VT intended her harm.  However, we do not know when or how all these injuries were sustained. If they needed fire equipment and a crane to retrieve her body, some of the injuries would have been sustained then, also some might have resulted from being exposed to the snow---we just dont know.  She DID have a lot of bruises though, which can only be sustained when someone is alive, so it was obviously a violent attack on her-----it's just that I think someone other than VT did it!!  So, yes, I think it was murder----but not because of "sex" and not by VT.

Also, people don't generally believe that it is possible to strangle someone by accident, although, as I said before, I know a very decent man who disagrees with this !!!!

Also, it was thought that VT lied in court.  He said that he wanted to kiss Jo, but denied that this was sexual.  Well, I wouldn't have believed that one either!!  However, most people think VT lied in court because he wanted to make himself look less bad than he actually was.  I would say that he lied in court because he was told what to say in the first place.

He needed to keep his girlfriend onside, of course he was going to deny it was sexual.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 12:03:13 PM
If the evidence they have presented in court doesn't stand up to scrutiny and nobody objected at the trail of Vincent Tabak, because for what ever reason he made a plea to manslaughter.

His Solicitor could have Objected on many issues but didnt, because they only had to try prove it was manslaughter and not murder.

But if all the so called evidence had been scrutinised in the first place, the ridculous evidence of Vincent Tabaks internet searches would have been thrown out.

With this forum being about Miscarriages of Justice, it gives a platform for people who have misgivings on convictions..

And the more information i read from the trial and how it was used, the more i am worried about it.

Who is going to put the evidence throught the ringer? For most people they are satisfied that Vincent Tabak is locked up, But what if he's not the real perpetrator? I don't believe he is.. And that in itself is a hard thing to say when your aware the majority of the public believe in his guilt.


The prosecution made much of Tabaks Internet searches, which they used to bolster their case.

I find that some of these searches don't make any sense.. For instance..

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

This link has some trial transcript:

Quote
On 23 Dec 2010 at 4.00 pm
Tabak searched the Dutch Wikipedia for the words
‘extradition’
‘Yeates’
‘missing persons’
‘% of grey cars in UK’
‘Renault Megan cars in UK’

why would he search a dutch wiki for this when the dutch wiki wouldnt have the information?

Take the % of grey cars...

https://translate.google.co.uk/#nl/en/%25%20Van%20de%20grijze%20auto's%20in%20het%20Verenigd%20Koninkrijk

Now if you put that into the dutch wiki you get :

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal:Zoeken&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=%25+Van+de+grijze+auto%27s+in+het+Verenigd+Koninkrijk&searchToken=76r9hzzultimrab2igr01du7m

There isn't an entry, why would there be? It's useless information to the Dutch wiki

Again put the word Yeates in the Dutch wiki and you get this:

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=yeates&title=Speciaal:Zoeken&go=Artikel&searchToken=ekugxqqdlqri4akdovwrcfq54

So how can they say that he was searching for related information to the case on the dutch wiki when realistically the dutch wiki would be useless just as the english wiki, it just writes information, it has sourced from news papers mainly and tv news.

So he might as well have just looked at the news!!

If i can find holes in a couple of examples, why on earth didn't his Lawyer object..!!

Because for starters as regards the Searches, they were only given the timeline document of 1300 page on the day of trail..

He would not have time to go through all the so called relevant searches and other timeline information.

The timeline chart consisted of 566 events, how on earth would a Lawyer have the time to scrutinise the prosecutions evidence?? They had a day!!

Iv'e spent more than a day looking at a few timeline..

How is the defence going to check whether it is possible to even search the dutch wiki for the supposed searches?


https://translate.google.co.uk/#en/nl/extradition

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal:Zoeken&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=uitlevering&searchToken=1z737ea7a123nljokk36r47vn 

did they follow that up with him clicking on the word extradition??

Quote
"The Netherlands also usually seeks to request that a national accused of crimes committed abroad is tried, or serves a sentence, in the Netherlands," she says.

So why isn't he spending time in a Dutch prison??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23029814

In Fact I think it would have been better for Vincent Tabak if he was in Holland and they had to extradite him:

Quote
Article 16, paragraph 4 of the European Convention on
Extradition states that provisional arrest can be terminated
somewhere between 18 days and 40 days if the original
request for extradition and accompanying documents are
not received by the requested state.
Following Dutch legislation, provisional arrest can last no
longer than 20 days without the receipt of the original
request for extradition and accompanying documents. If
the original request for extradition and accompanying
documents (a fax version is not sufficient) are not received
within 20 days after a Dutch judge has ordered the
provisional arrest, this provisional arrest must be
terminated. Only after the original request for extradition
and accompanying documents are received can the
requested person be arrested for extradition again.



http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/pc-oc/Country_information1_en_files/NL%20Extradition.pdf

They would have then had to prove to a Dutch judge that the evidence that they had on him was sound, and personally I'm not sure the Dutch Judge would have agreed.


Ive added this since posting:

Quote
Concerning extradition of Dutch nationals the following is
of importance. Article 6 of the European Convention on
Extradition allows states the possibility to deny extradition
of its own nationals. The Dutch declaration to this article
states that the Netherlands can only permit the extradition
of Dutch nationals for purposes of prosecution if the
requesting State provides a guarantee that the person
claimed may be returned to the Netherlands to serve his
sentence there if, following his extradition, a custodial
sentence other than a suspended sentence or a measure
depriving him of his liberty is imposed upon him.

So I cant see Tabak actually leaving holland if he committed the crime.. He was guarented under the extradition Treaty to at least spend his SENTENCE In Holland. If not they wouldn't possibly have extradited him...

If this was supposed to be an extremely calculating man. He would have STAYED

But I now understand why he wasn't given bail originally, when they didn'nt have any real evidence!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 12:19:08 PM
He needed to keep his girlfriend onside, of course he was going to deny it was sexual.

Ok.. he's got porn on his computer.. possibly he didnt want her to know...

But.... If he was into Sado Masochisim, surely they would have wanted Tanja Morson on the witness stand to say about Tabaks, sexual demands!!!

That would have bolstered there case....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 12:44:37 PM
Quote
So I cant see Tabak actually leaving holland if he committed the crime.. He was guarented under the extradition Treaty to at least spend his SENTENCE In Holland. If not they wouldn't possibly have extradited him...

If this was supposed to be an extremely calculating man. He would have STAYED

But I now understand why he wasn't given bail originally, when they didn'nt have any real evidence!!!

By taking a DNA sample from him in Holland and as eveyone says .. he knew he was scuppered then..

If his DNA was on Joanna.. it should have been all over joanna..

Then surely he'd have stayed in Holland, knowing it was only a matter of time before they matched him!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 12:51:01 PM
I believe VT had previously had porn on his computer, and he had admitted this to Tanja.  When they moved in together, he told her he had deleted it.

So, yes, he must have lied to her, and he obviously wouldn't have wanted her to know the police had found porn.  However, I understand from speaking to people that many men watch porn on their computers, and this does not make them in any way deviant:  some of them are merely doing it behind their partners' backs.  Same with using escorts. Not the most edifying of things to do, to my mind, but it isn't criminal!!

I suspect that, by the time VT went to trial, Tanja was already "not on side", as she fled to New Zealand, I believe! If she objected to porn, she certainly would have objected to "kinky" and masochistic sex, so I assume Vincent can't have tried anything like this while they were together.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 12:57:49 PM
I go with the Polices original theory that the Perpetator/perpetrors knew Joanna Yeates.

I have questions about her Mobile phone?

What sort of mobile phone did Joanna Yeates own??? (possibly a smartphone.. i don't know)..

Lots of information to do with this phone is unknown.

If its a smartphone, does it have apps running in the background?

Did she trawl the internet on it on an average day?

Did she check facebook on it? Reply on facebook on it?

Did she do twitter on it? (reading latest tweets?)

Did she take photo's? view photos?

Listen to music on it?

We know she texted on it, We know she rang on it on the day of the 17th Dec 2010

We don't know how many texts she made that day or how many phone calls she made that day, we only know some of that information.

Was she constantly recieving Alerts?

So i wondered when she last charged her phone?

Smartphones are notorious for losing battery fast.. there a pain in the..!!

I know they're alot of factors regarding battery life, but it puzzled me how the phone had life in it at 9.00pm on Sunday 19th 2010

It could still have had, i'd be suprised.



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 12:58:42 PM
I suspect they wont extradite him because they are afraid that if he is back home, he might start talking!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 01:15:29 PM
If Vincent Tabak  was sent to a Dutch Prison after the murder trail was over. He would have never been extradited again to face Trail on the Porn charges.

Can you imagine the expense of extraditing him?

Are the images in a Dutch court classified as child porn??

They got this evidence from over 4 computers Vincnet Tabak had access to... and an EXTERNAL hardrive that anyone could put things onto...

They needed these charges to stick, so the British Public can sleep comfortably at night knowing That Evil man is behind bars and he's not getting out!!

The have vilified him like they did with Chris Jefferies.

The Child Porn Conviction is pointless.. (with regards to this conviction )He's on a register, that will probably finish before he leaves prison. As far as I'm aware they don't have a Sex Offenders Register in Holland. And He got 10 month...



So the only real purpose I can she in this Conviction is to tell the British Public....


There you go,..We told you he was a nasty man!!!!

Appauling...

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 01:19:08 PM
I suspect they wont extradite him because they are afraid that if he is back home, he might start talking!

I absolutley agree with you there Mrswah...

Maybe thats why he's not protesting his Innocence, maybe thats why His family are not making a song and dance..

If he behaves .. they'll let him serve time in a dutch prison..

He is probably desperate to be back in Hollland,whether its in prison or not his mother is really old and I'm sure she would like to see him
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 01:45:48 PM
Quote
was she receiving alerts

Well we knew she received texts.. that evening

We also know that her boyfriend had text and rung her several times. Over that weekend

So that information adds to the wear on the battery life..

I'm sure Vincent Tabak didnt plug her phone in to keep the charge!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 02:18:06 PM
Tabak was in the house when Jo Yeates was on her last known evening alive.  He was alone and had no alibi.  He said he did it.  There is a wealth of evidence to back up his admission.  You can play these sorts of games on pretty much any case you want, indeed there are people on the internet convinced that Ian Huntley was stitched up and that Sarah Payne's murderer is a lovely man wrongly convicted.  What purpose this serves other than to make you feel like Miss Marple I do not know.  Put yourselves in the shoes of the victim's familiy for a moment and then tell me that what you're doing here is in their best interests.

There maybe a wealth of supposed evidence to back up an addmission, but where is the Hard evidence to prove he even entered Joanna Yeates flat??

Are there Vincent Tabaks finger prints anywhere in that flat??

He supposedly moved her round the flat to various locations.where are the finger prints??

He turned the tv off.. again wheres his finger prints or dna on the remote control

He turned off the oven.. where are his finger prints, surely by this time he was sweating profusley as he's apparently had just killed Janna Yeates.

There is no DNA evidence in Her flat Or His Flat..

He didn't leave his coat behind to prove he'd been in the flat..

Nobody saw him enter or leave the flat

There is no CCTV footage of him going into the Flat, because theres no CCTV's

He didn't ring anyone saying he's at his neigbours..

No Hard Evidence!!  They need to support Vincent Tabak admission of guilt with hard evidence!!!

The supposed evidence in court fits snuggly with what the prosecution need you to believe:


Quote
Defence Counsel: Accepting that she was dead, what did you do?
Tabak: After a couple of minutes I lifted the body and carried it over to my flat.
Defence Counsel: Your hand being on what part of her body?
Tabak: One arm was underneath her knees.

from http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


One arm was underneath her Knee... What about her other Knee?
where was the rest off Vincent tabak? His other arm?

Did he draw her up towards his chest so that he had hold of her properly?

Surley if he did that more of his sweat would have dripped on her.

did he have one arm supporting her neck? so he could lift her?

Did he just move her by her legs..
 
I've tried but the answer does give an image of how Vincent Tabak was supposed to have lifted Joanna Yeates..

He's apparently only holding her by her Knee!!

This would explain why they supposedly found his DNA behind her knee of her Jeans..

Why on earth wasn't there more DNA on her or in the Flat if he had been Struggling to Move her!!!




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 02:33:23 PM
And another thing...

How did they prove that the searches were all made by Vincent Tabak and None of these Internet searches were Made by his girlfriend on his home computer or work mates on work related computer?

Did they produce the evidence that they were all definetley Vincent Tabaks  searches and not anyone else..

Again did his solicitor ever check who made the searches or did he just accept the Prosecutions word on that!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 15, 2016, 03:04:32 PM
Alfie and Jixy, we are not playing games here.  We are debating:  as far as I am aware, that is what people do on forums like this.

As for the effect on victims' families, nobody intends any disrespect to them, as I have said before. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and are entitled to air them, even if the victim's family may not like it. It is called free speech!! In any case, I very much doubt whether Jo's family are reading our posts.

I do agree, however, with what Alfie says regarding Ian Huntley.  I have read a lot of stuff on the internet about people thinking he is innocent, and, having done my research, I reckon he is as guilty as sin. I think Vincent Tabak is rather different though, and I don't actually think there is much good evidence at all pointing to his guilt.
I had a look at that "Tabak Is Innocent" website and it's the biggest pile of illogical and badly written/reasoned tosh I've ever read. 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 03:12:24 PM
Ask yourself this:

Why would a dutch Nation look up Extradtion from Holland if:

Quote
On 23 Dec 2010 at 4.00 pm
Tabak searched the Dutch Wikipedia for the words
‘extradition’
‘Yeates’
‘missing persons’
‘% of grey cars in UK’
‘Renault Megan cars in UK’

A: He probably already has a basic Knowledge of the laws of the Dutch Land

B: He probably wouldn't have gotten the answer from a dutch wiki, he would need to check something long the lines of:

 http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/pc-oc/Country_information1_en_files/NL%20Extradition.pdf

Do not forget that Vincent Tabak has got a PHD,

I'm sure he knows Wiki isn't fact.. And realisically would have checked the relevant sources if he was trying to sercure not being detained in this country an avoiding Police apprehension.


He is Not Called Dr Vincent Tabak for nothing, the man has an education!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 03:17:21 PM
I had a look at that "Tabak Is Innocent" website and it's the biggest pile of illogical and badly written/reasoned tosh I've ever read.

I am not saying the "Tabak is Innocent" website is accurate or that it makes statement that are suggesting certain things that haven't taken place.

I have not used information from "Tabak is Innocent" website to support the posts that i have made.

I have used common sense , logic and evidence from the offical information that has been made available, occasionally i have refer ed to the news papers at the time to see what  the dates were.

If you check my posts I always use quotes and back them up with link, unless its a direct quote from this forum...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: puglove on November 15, 2016, 03:33:34 PM
I had a look at that "Tabak Is Innocent" website and it's the biggest pile of illogical and badly written/reasoned tosh I've ever read.

I agree, Alfie. It's absolutely dire.    %56&
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 03:35:46 PM
Alfie, could you tell us why you think the "Tabak is Innocent" blog is a load of rubbish? 

I don't get my ideas from there, either.  I have looked at a lot of different sources: forums, newspapers, etc, BUT most of my ideas come from my brain!!!  There was a time when I assumed VT must be guilty.  I think I started to have doubts when his glasses were taken away from him in prison, and he had to appear in court unable to see properly. As for the trial, I think it was a farce.

I dont agree with a some of the views expressed on that blog, but I do think it is well written and well researched. I would like to know more about why you think as you do!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 03:38:12 PM
Ah, Puglove, good afternoon!  Perhaps you could tell us a bit more too, regarding why you think it is dire???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 03:45:38 PM
And I would like to know why they decided to strip Dr Vincent Tabak of his title?

He doesnt loose his education because ofhis conviction!!

They didnt strip Dr Harold Shipman of his when he in prison...


Just calling him plan old Vincent Tabak makes him seem more villianous

The Prosecution don't show him any respect at all.. They refer to him all the Time as "TABAK"

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Quote
At Line 340 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled on 26 Dec 2010
‘Yeates’
At 3.00 pm he search the Telegraph Newspaper online
At 3:43 pm he searched online global newspapers
At 3.45 pm he searched the words
‘Suspension bridge police footage’

I remember teachers at schools refering to pupils by their last name... This tended to happen because they didn't like them.

Makes Dr Vincent Tabak less appealing to the Jury...

So I'm going to be making a concerted effort to call him by his proper title....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 15, 2016, 04:01:11 PM
It was reported that he took his glasses off as he shed a tear and apologised to Joanna's parents in court. Why would he do that?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 04:11:28 PM
He probably was sorry that they had such an horrendous crime visited upon their daughter..

Whats he gonna do... not say anything and appear even more of a callous unfeeling person, And crying not a suprising reaction to everything that was put infront of him..

At that time he's already been in prison for a lenght of time..

I'd cry in that position... damned if you do damned if you dont...

We still don't know what or who convinced him to plead guilty in the first place...

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 15, 2016, 04:15:06 PM
maybe he WAS sorry because he killed her and really didn't mean to rather a general sorry that she was dead! at least he had his glasses on!

He was sorry for putting them through hell and not indicating someone else did!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 04:32:18 PM
Question:


Did The chaplain Brotherton appear in court?



Correct me if i'm incorrect, but isn't it hearsay when one person has a conversation with another person? As regards evidence in court, doesn't the original confession to The Chaplain Brotherton need to be recorded, especially if he didn't make an appearance?


When the confession was heard by the Chaplain Brotherton, Did he record this confession for the Police, if he wasn't bothered that Dr Vincent Tabak  was an atheist as has been mentioned to explain away why a Religous Man of the cloth would divulge the confessions of anyone.. Then he could have worn a wire?

Or demand a court ruling for him to appear as a reluctant witness, and because of his convictions as a man of faith, would possibly face a contempt of court ruling for refusing to divulge a confession.





Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 04:34:09 PM
maybe he WAS sorry because he killed her and really didn't mean to rather a general sorry that she was dead! at least he had his glasses on!

He was sorry for putting them through hell and not indicating someone else did!

Once the plea had been made, he couldn't implicate someone else, at that point he's going through the motions.

Jixy why the Glasses?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 04:34:52 PM
Jixy, do you think he was showing remorse then?

I began a separate thread on this site, asking what a defendant has to do to show remorse, as we often hear that convicted people havent shown any remorse (Im not only thinking about VT here).  As far as I recall, only one person replied!  I have always wondered about this:  if someone cries in court, people will  say they are only crying because they were caught, so what would VT have to do, assuming that he DID murder Jo, for people to think he was remorseful?

I always wondered about this, in relation to Myra Hindley in particular (and at least, with her, there was GOOD EVIDENCE that she was guilty).  As we all know, "Evil Myra" was selling newspapers even after her death!  She had her supporters, who thought she was showing remorse by helping to find the body of Pauline Reade, becoming a practising Catholic, etc etc, but others thought that she never showed any remorse at all. Sorry to go off topic, but this has always interested me.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 04:45:18 PM
maybe he WAS sorry because he killed her and really didn't mean to rather a general sorry that she was dead! at least he had his glasses on!

He was sorry for putting them through hell and not indicating someone else did!

Jixy you beauty, you don't realise what a help you are...

Why didnt his Glasses fall off??

Why didnt he break them;

 Bending up and down doing all those movements to place joanna in different places around the Flat, surely he of had to pause to stop his glasses faliing off, they'd be moving round his face, he'd have to keep ajusting them..

I wear glasses for reading, he wears them all the time and sometimes i bend over and they fall off or move, they're quite annoying..

If he had Joanna yeates near his face his glasses also would of had DNA on them and his consent touching of his glasses , having come into contact with Joanna yeates should surely have had some transfer on them....

I think these Glasses need more investigation...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 04:45:43 PM
Nine

It was me who first mentioned VT's glasses!  I said I first began having doubts about his guilt when his glasses were taken away!

As for Brotherton, I believe he had three conversations with VT, and somehow (have no idea how) this became a "confession".  Dont know whether he actually said that he had killed Jo---he did talk about changing his plea, apparently.  I always thought it was very odd that he only started visiting Long Lartin in January 2011, just before VT found himself there.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 05:04:46 PM
Sorry mrswah

 I apologise for my oversite..

And the Glasses of Dr Vincent Tabak are of relevance to the case, in more than one way..

Maybe someone could add a few extra minutes here and there for Dr Vincent Tabak to adjust his glasses during the commission of this crime.

Not only in the first crime scene, but the second crime scene...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 06:28:48 PM
Quote
He added: “When I found out she had not been admitted to any hospital, or been picked up by the police, or returned to work on the Monday morning, I could only fear the worst. I knew she would not just run away.”
Read more at http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/joanna-yeates-8217-boyfriend-greg-speaks-agony/story-14143998-detail/story.html#KgcicPQM7MdgHVDK.99
did he ring any hospital on that day? Returned to work Monday morning??? The police where in his house Monday morning, why would she go to work without her , shoes, coat, phone  rucksack or anything else.. (weird)

Quote
At 11pm, Greg’s feelings of ­insecurity deepened ­dramatically when he noticed Jo’s ­rucksack on the dining room table. He said: “I rummaged through it and found her specs in a case, her sunglasses in a case, her wallet and keys within the depths of the bag and the striped multi-coloured top she had worn on Friday.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-trial-boyfriend-tells-86312
Quote
He said: “I found one of them under a piece of clothing on the floor and the other was under the duvet in the bed.
Quote
Arriving home to an untidy flat, Greg Reardon felt a little miffed his girlfriend Jo Yeates had left coats and boots scattered across the hall.

Just my opinion ,but not to notice the Rucksack on the Table for 3 hours in such a small flat, Yet finds earrings;;
Suprises me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8822459/Jury-shown-inside-Joanna-Yeates-flat.html

Dr Vincent Tabak apparently noticed the Pizza on the table after he'd taken Joanna Yeates around to his flat, he went back to collect it, and the sock.

I still don't understand why he would take the Pizza, he didnt know she had just bought it...

If the flat is in such mess on Mr Reardons return, why hadn't Dr Vincent Tabak spent the time to clean up?

How could he assure that he hadn't left any evidence behind... the earring in the duvet shows it was possible for evidence to be there??


Quote
He said of his return to Flat 1, on the Sunday night:
'It was quite untidy. There were clothing, boots and shoes and general paraphernalia.' He
told jurors he paced around the flat, tidying as he went, and trying to piece together what
may have happened’. There were clothing, boots and shoes and general paraphernalia. I
was wandering about. I didn't really think there was a big problem. I thought she may well
have gone away visiting friends. 'So I thought she may have been away doing fun things,
so not having been able to get hold of her phone. I wasn't sure. I didn't immediately think
anything serious was wrong.' I was quite annoyed that I had not been told what her plans
were and she had not got back to me and I was starting to feel quite worried.’ said Greg
Reardon.
Mr Reardon said Bernard the cat was pleased to see him and wanted to go outside to the
toilet. The cat was also hungry and quickly ate his dinner. Referring to the hungry cat, the
clothes on the floor and general mess, Mr Reardon said:’
Mr Reardon said he had eaten a pizza from the freezer for his dinner and drank the open
bottle of cider he had found in the flat when he got home.
Mr Reardon, who works as an architectural assistant, said he spotted his girlfriend's
rucksack on the dining room table and when he opened it he found her glasses, sunglasses,
keys and wallet inside. Her striped jumper, which she had been wearing on the day she
was last seen alive, was found in her rucksack. His discrepancy was never queried during
this murder trial.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Why hadn't anyone in the court challenged Greg Reardon and his inconsistencies.

If his account isn't accurate it throws doubt upon events..

It also highlights the difficulty that Dr Vincent Tabak would have faced trying to remove Joanna Yeates from the Flat.

If the Hallway had boots left there, coats etc, and theyre had been a huge struggle in the flat. Dr Vincent Tabak would not have found it easy to negotiate moving Joanna Yeates out of the flat to his flat.








Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 15, 2016, 07:46:03 PM
Alfie, could you tell us why you think the "Tabak is Innocent" blog is a load of rubbish? 

I don't get my ideas from there, either.  I have looked at a lot of different sources: forums, newspapers, etc, BUT most of my ideas come from my brain!!!  There was a time when I assumed VT must be guilty.  I think I started to have doubts when his glasses were taken away from him in prison, and he had to appear in court unable to see properly. As for the trial, I think it was a farce.

I dont agree with a some of the views expressed on that blog, but I do think it is well written and well researched. I would like to know more about why you think as you do!!
I'm surprised you have to ask actually.  Within a few sentences of the front page of the blog we have this

 "His pretty neighbour Joanna Yeates, whom he did not know at all, even by sight, was murdered just before Christmas 2010 (probably after her boyfriend caught her déshabillé with her secret lover)",

This makes the most offensive allegations about the victim and suggests her boyfriend is guilty, which is libellous and completely unsupported by even a shred of evidence.


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 08:30:10 PM
Alfie, good evening...

Hasn't anything that has been said on this forum made you think differently in anyway?

Not even the post about "internet searches"...

my goodness, if someone used my internet searches against me, when I've been looking at this case, they could construe allsorts from them.. Not forgetting when I leave the room My daughter may use my computer..

Who said Dr Vincent Tabak was at a computer (of which there were 4 they searched) and hadn't left the room, someone pops on for 2 ticks.. Searches weather/ murder/ anything.. Can they prove it was definetley Dr Vincent Tabak who made these searches??

It's difficult to prove intent on a computer search as virtually all these searches are one or two worded.... And is searching google actually a crime? Where are the print off's from the searches.. The searches really mean nothing and should have been questioned in court!!

There is nothing proving he did any searches when Joanna Yeates was in his flat for an hour.. But the prosecution insisted that joanna yeates had been in his flat for an hour..

Was there a record that he watched a film, accessed files to do with work on his computer.. Surely if he was looking for places to get rid of Joanna, he'd of had google earth map up so he could decide of the best disposal site...

There are wooded areas closer to Canygne Road and of course the river, which would have hidden her better.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 15, 2016, 08:56:19 PM
Alfie

Yes, the sentences you quote---I would agree with you, as I don't think Joanna had any lovers, and nor do I think she was murdered by her boyfriend, and there is no evidence to support either of these scenarios!!  And, as you say, they are libellous.

However, the blog is very long, and there ARE lots of good things in it---that are not the result of speculation and are not libellous.  The part about the fire engines, crane etc being needed to recover Jo's body is fact (although not well known), and very interesting.  It casts doubt on whether the body was actually found where we have been told it was found. If we have been lied to about that, I wonder what other lies we have been told.  It makes one wonder.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 15, 2016, 09:13:10 PM
I'd like to look at other evidence that was available:

The shard of console..

Was it a games console??
Was it taken as evidence??
Was it handed in as Evidence??
Was Joanna Yeates playing on the console??

And mostly did it belong to that household ,or did  it get brought into the house, should there have been a console in the house??

There is nothing available about this console i can find apart from it been asked as a question to Dr Vincent Tabak

Having a shard of console may sugest it was broken in the Flat..

Was Tanja Morson asked if they owned a console or if it was broken?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 16, 2016, 09:20:18 AM
Alfie, good evening...

Hasn't anything that has been said on this forum made you think differently in anyway?

Not even the post about "internet searches"...

my goodness, if someone used my internet searches against me, when I've been looking at this case, they could construe allsorts from them.. Not forgetting when I leave the room My daughter may use my computer..

Who said Dr Vincent Tabak was at a computer (of which there were 4 they searched) and hadn't left the room, someone pops on for 2 ticks.. Searches weather/ murder/ anything.. Can they prove it was definetley Dr Vincent Tabak who made these searches??

It's difficult to prove intent on a computer search as virtually all these searches are one or two worded.... And is searching google actually a crime? Where are the print off's from the searches.. The searches really mean nothing and should have been questioned in court!!

There is nothing proving he did any searches when Joanna Yeates was in his flat for an hour.. But the prosecution insisted that joanna yeates had been in his flat for an hour..

Was there a record that he watched a film, accessed files to do with work on his computer.. Surely if he was looking for places to get rid of Joanna, he'd of had google earth map up so he could decide of the best disposal site...

There are wooded areas closer to Canygne Road and of course the river, which would have hidden her better.
Regarding the internet searches.  You're right - they prove nothing, however the fact is - Tabak lived in the same building as Joanna Yeates, she disappeared and subsequently Tabak is searching online  about how long it takes for a body to decay but offers no defence for why he did so.  Hmmm.. ..  As far as I'm aware Tabak didn't have a daughter who could have snuck in to use his computer, nor anyone else in his flat who was there at the time, so it stands to reason that he alone was responsible for searches on his own computer.
Why do you necessarily think he would have carried out these searches while Joanna was in his room anyway?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 16, 2016, 01:58:09 PM
Regarding the internet searches.  You're right - they prove nothing, however the fact is - Tabak lived in the same building as Joanna Yeates, she disappeared and subsequently Tabak is searching online  about how long it takes for a body to decay but offers no defence for why he did so.  Hmmm.. ..  As far as I'm aware Tabak didn't have a daughter who could have snuck in to use his computer, nor anyone else in his flat who was there at the time, so it stands to reason that he alone was responsible for searches on his own computer.
Why do you necessarily think he would have carried out these searches while Joanna was in his room anyway?

Hi Alfie

I like facts.... 

Yes... Dr Vincent Tabak lived in the same building, and so did many more people. The polices original line of enquiry was that it had to be someone that knew her. For her to let them inside when she was afraid to be on her own...seems very unlikely.

Even Greg had said they had not meet him before.. They hadn't lived there very long, so would only know most neighbour in passing.

Lets go back to the searches... What do they actually prove?  Not a great deal really. They were used to imply that Dr Vincent Tabak had looked at various things, that the police believe where all connected to Joanna yeates.

Quote
At Line 225 (sic)
Tabak searched using the words
‘Joanna Yeates’
‘Salt supplies in the Netherlands’

What can you imagine from that... He was checking on News about his missing neighbour andso were countless other people, me included.

Salt supllies in Netherlands, how does this help?

Quote
At Line 257 of the prosecution Chart
Tabak searched on Google Maps for
‘Longwood Lane’

I think this is probably the one that tipped the jury.... Searching for it implys he knew she was there, if he was driving around aimlessly ,not knowing where to put her and not knowing the area, I'm sure that he could have found a better location. And how can you search for somewhere you don't know where it is??

Quote
At Line 311 of the prosecution search
Tabak Googled the words
‘body discomposition time’ (sic)

How does this have anything to do with Jo'???.... 

With his range of searches that they have produced, it could have been anything, i watch alot of crime stuff, It appears to me that he also has a fasination. It doesn't prove he was checking to see how long it would take for Jo's body to decompose.

And that brings another thought.. if he was aware that Jo's was dead and that he had killed her, why check body decomposition time? It was freezing everyone knew that. Does it really mean he was checking for how long it would take for jo?

When he replies he can't remember, he probably can't..

Was he looking at body decomposition to check that something he'd read or heard had the correct information?

Or was he checking that a program for instance had researched their material correctly and he was seeing if the time for a body to decompose was correct.

So how can he say why he searched for it?

Could you explain all your searches from 10 months ago?? Probably not..

So why didn't he move her?  http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

I look at News, watch Crime, watch Designing show programs etc, I'm sure you have a selection of activities that you also do.

I know I flit from one thing to the next, i look at Twitter, next thing I might put a search in the computer to do with that Tweet. Someone might text me and I'll search again.

What I'm really trying to say is how can a search show intent!!  Intent to do what??

Buy a shed load of Rock Salt and what.............

Sell it ??
A friend asked him about Rock Salt?? 
Prices of Rock Salt
History of Rock Salt in the Netherlands

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Rock+salt+netherlands

What does looking for Rock salt in the Netherlands Prove? Nothing really again it's the intent.

The jury were too Obviously swayed by the searches, I can't see how they are admissible as it doesn't show intent it just implies that it May or Maynot apply to Joanna Yeates the proscution want you to think that it does.


Quote
The prosecution’s Internet evidence
On 17 December 2010 at 7.45:54 am
Tabak performed a Google search on the words
‘Weather’
‘Bristol’
‘Bath’

This search was made on a work computer.... who said it was Dr Vincent Tabak, that made this search??

He could have , he probabaly did.. But 2 ticks away from a computer and anyone could search..

So that creates doubt....

And there lies the problem.. I don't know why he pled guilty to manslaughter (but innocent people have done so before)..

And the so called evidence that the prosecution presented would have created reasonable doubt, because internet searches don't prove intent, they only imply what you want them to imply.

If he had not made a plea, with the evidence that they didn't really have.
Not guilty.. would have been the verdict in my opinion.

So you can see how important it was to get Dr Vincent Tabak to enter a manslaughter plea.

 Any good Defence Lawyer would have made mince meat out of the so called evidence.




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 16, 2016, 03:00:39 PM
hi again Alfie...

The prosecution said Dr Vincent Tabak had Joanna Yeates in his Flat for 1 hour before he went to Asda..

So how do thy know???????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 16, 2016, 04:24:46 PM
You can post theories til the end of time, the fact is he said he did it and even cried in court because he did it and realised what he has done. case closed!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 16, 2016, 04:43:41 PM
You can post theories til the end of time, the fact is he said he did it and even cried in court because he did it and realised what he has done. case closed!

I haven' t posted theories really Jixy...  Since when have internet searches been proof of committing a crime??

And your entitled to your opinion, which differs to mine.

And i'll reiterate.. I don't know what made him make a plea of guilty to manslaughter..

If he made a plea of guilt.. you still have to back it up with concrete evidence.

If the case is closed...??   " SEND" Dr Vincent Tabak Back to his own country to serve out his sentence.. his family didn't commit any crimes, his mother is  old.. it's called compassion for them... The Tabak family are guilty off nothing!!!

This Country might despise him with a passion, But his family loves him..... 

So what is wrong with sending Dr Vincent Tabak back to Holland to serve his sentence???

You have him in Prison...  The Dutch want there offenders back to their own country, It's part of the stipulation of their EU Treaty...... which I posted the other day...

Maybe there should be a thread on sending him Back to Holland!!!!!!

Quite honestly I'd cry... He's in a hopeless situation..

Think its called Catch22


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 16, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
I have never commented on the internet searches that you seem very keen to focus on. There are some cases available where it is clear there has been a miscarriage of justice and family members are fighting to get their loved one back home.

To me that is far more interesting than constant searching to prove a man innocent when he hasn't said that himself.

I respect you fascination even though I don't understand it.

Have another look on Google and you will be surprised what cases are real clear cut miscarriage of justice
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 16, 2016, 05:14:31 PM
I have never commented on the internet searches that you seem very keen to focus on. There are some cases available where it is clear there has been a miscarriage of justice and family members are fighting to get their loved one back home.

To me that is far more interesting than constant searching to prove a man innocent when he hasn't said that himself.

I respect you fascination even though I don't understand it.

Have another look on Google and you will be surprised what cases are real clear cut miscarriage of justice

So As I said before..... "SEND"'''' Dr Vincent Tabak back to his homeland of Holland to serve out his sentence.

Why has nobody heard him ask that either Jixy??? That is a peculiar question you have risen...


Why has nobody heard Anything from Dr Vincent Tabak,..... As you say he's not Shouting I'm Innocent..

BUT,,... He's not shouting..

"SEND ME HOME"?????????

Ask yourself that!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 16, 2016, 06:14:41 PM
we don't know him or how he thinks no matter how hard you try to work it out all. Maybe he is serving a sentence that he accepts he deserves unlike some other people

If you accept he is guilty as he says he is, why is it important to you where he is? He is a murderer
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 16, 2016, 07:03:43 PM
we don't know him or how he thinks no matter how hard you try to work it out all. Maybe he is serving a sentence that he accepts he deserves unlike some other people

If you accept he is guilty as he says he is, why is it important to you where he is? He is a murderer

Why does it matter to me... Interesting question Jixy

Things abother me.... lots of things, niggle at me and I keep having to go back to the to work them out..

I followed the case very early on and there were lots of discussion groups about the case... The information on there was vast... `People who live in the building and people who were in close proximity gave information.. which differed from what we know...

I never understood why these Discussion groups were removed, but, they're gone and lost forever..

So when Dr Vincent Tabak come into the frame, he was a most unlikely candidate....As i know longer have access to these Discussion I can't provide you with any "quotes"...

It bothers me because i like Fair.... And this was not a fair fight..
And every so often, something pricks my conscience , and I start looking at it again..
That is what lead me here... (like been lead down the Garden path)...

And a friend of mine once said to me
Quote
IF THINGS DON'T ADD UP, SOMEBODY IS LYING
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 16, 2016, 07:30:25 PM
I could understand your dedication if he pleaded not guilty. The ones who we think would never do it can often turn out to be the very ones who do

Serial killers, psychopaths etc still can have a certain charm and interest

I asked you previously why you don't look more towards the cases where someone is maintaining innocence or even more so where its clear they are? a few well known cases fit that mould
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 16, 2016, 07:31:46 PM
Good evening Jixy

Which cases do you think involve miscarriages of justice, and why?  Not being nosy, just interested! Lots of people using this site seem to believe Jeremy Bamber is a victim of a MOJ, for example,
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: sika on November 16, 2016, 11:12:36 PM
Good evening Jixy

Which cases do you think involve miscarriages of justice, and why?  Not being nosy, just interested! Lots of people using this site seem to believe Jeremy Bamber is a victim of a MOJ, for example,
Lots of people?  How many, would you estimate?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 17, 2016, 07:21:18 AM
On this site?  No idea really, Im afraid. I suppose I meant generally, as he has a supporters page, I believe. I haven't read the threads in detail on her, but it seems there are people on either side!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 17, 2016, 11:34:45 AM
Dr Vincent Tabak was a extremely competent computer user, more than competent, he had an understanding that is greater than most people, the pic i've attached shows Dr Vincent Tabaks Qualifications and Computer skills..

Under Activities it describes that Dr Vincent tabak: Programming Active Server Pages (ASP)

Quote
ASP use server-side scripting to generate contents that would be sent to the visitor's web browser. The ASP interpreter reads and executes all script code between <% and %> tags, the result of which is content generation. These scripts are written using VBScript, JScript and PerlScript. The @Language directive, the <script language="manu" runat="server" /> syntax or server configuration can be used to select the language. In the example below, Response.Write Now() is in an HTML page; it would be dynamically replaced by the current time of the server.

(Did you understand that, because I didn't)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages

Quote
Defence Counsel: You went to the University of Technology in Utrecht. Did you have to
leave home then? Utrecht is about 30 kilometres away.
Tabak: Yes. I lived away. I studied architecture for seven years.
Defence Counsel: What qualifications did you pass?
Tabak: Equivalent to a combined Master Degree in Architecture and Computer Science.
Defence Counsel: Did you then obtain employment?
Tabak: No.
Defence Counsel: What did you do then?
Tabak: I studied for a PhD in people behaviour in the corporate environment.
Defence Counsel: How long did that degree take?
Tabak: It took 4 years to receive my PhD.

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

I don't understand why his Lawyer didn't direct the Jury as to Dr Vincent Tabaks knowledge of Computing and his ability to program computer, Dr Tabak Mentions Computer Science.

So..Why didn't he show them what Asp programming was, why didn't he show the Jury Computer Script, most wouldn't be able to understand it, but it would have created doubt as to why Someone who is so computer literate would leave damning evidence on his computer, or just get rid of the hard drive.

Why Not?  He helped the Prosecution

Had the Jury know of Dr Vincent Tabaks abilities they might have found the Prosecutions claim difficult to believe...

If he is computer literate and had Committed this crime before he went to Holland, why didn't he take the hard drive with him, dump it somewhere.
(Apparently he was clever enough to dump a pizza and sock)

He clearly has a great understanding and education in Computing and would be extremly aware of what could be perceived as damaging evidence against him..

Quote
The fact that Dr Vincent Tabak had admitted manslaughter helped a little but the central point of the trial – his intention when he killed Yeates


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/02/vincent-tabak-trial-tweeted

So did the computer evidence show Intention?

Because that was the only EVIDENCE they had as a way to persuade the JURY that Dr Vincent Tabak intended to murder...

If he Intended to Murder someone that evening, why didn't he just walk the streets?

He had been out earlier... He had a keen Interest in Photography..

Why Didn't his Defence mention Dr Vincent Tabak had opportunity that evening to MURDER anyone!!

If searches cannot prove intent,.. How could the Prosecution have proven Dr Vincent Tabak Intended to do anything

Like I originally posted.. when I saw Dr Vincent Tabak on the stand, I saw a man just going through the motion's..

A man that was not being defended.... A man that could see his Defence was not trying to help him,(IMO) was not challenging anything that the Prosecution placed in front of a JURY..

He just sat there as this supposed Evidence was being piled upon him..

So I can clearly understand Dr Vincent Tabak sobbing in court.. He knew the situation was hopeless, because nobody was there to help him..

No Character Witness's called to testify to his nature
No Tanja Morson called to testify to their relationship or Dr Vincent Tabak's behaviour.
No Christopher Jefferies to say whether or not he had indeed seen Dr Vincent Tabak that evening or moved the car.
No Family to testify what A loving son he is and they couldn't understand him being charged.
No employer to testify as to his Character.
No friends to testify to any knowledge they had good/or bad
Even his Lawyer had nothing good to say about him...
Quote
” When the evidence emerged in the courtroom, even Tabak’s barrister described the 33-year-old’s actions as “disgusting and horrendous”.

That's when I thought his Goose was cooked, If Your Lawyer is against you.. You must be Guilty.. (IMO)

No Neighbours who knew him to say:
Quote
News of Tabak’s arrest was greeted with shock in his homeland. A former neighbour of the Dutchman described him as “shy” and said “he wouldn’t do that”.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/10/28/joanna-yeates-murder-tria_n_1063591.html

Infact he didn't have anything going for him...

Because people wanted him to be the Monster..

And if you call that a fair Trial.... In My Opinion It isn't..

Though our country prided itself on being Fair Open and Honest..

In My Opinion this Trial was far from being a FAIR FIGHT...


 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 17, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
What lead the Police to Dr Vincent Tabak???

Quote
A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.
‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349615/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabak-charged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz4QGk5zyx7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Quote
Police have been holding dramatic CCTV evidence that they believe shows the car in which they believe Miss Yeates’s body was being taken to be disposed of just hours after she was murdered.
The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the car containing her body being driven over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after the killing of landscape architect Miss Yeates, on its way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.
The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks
.Did they produce this evidence?

Answer No:.. Because it was too Grainy supposedly...

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY.... THE DATE WAS 18TH DEC  2010 and not 17th DEC 2010!!!!!!!!

Yet: 
Quote
Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
IMO they're reffering to Christopher Jefferies

How can the quality of the video be Good enough to eliminate one driver, but to grainy to convict Dr.Vincent Tabak.. WRONG DATE!!!!!!!!!!!

Because he didn't go over The Bridge they had no Evidence of him doing so.. But They did have Evidence of a car Travelling across the Bridge.

Quote
Meanwhile, it has been revealed that Tabak was arrested on suspicion of murder after police received vital new evidence in a phone call last Wednesday.

Quote
A source close to the investigation said the caller was in tears after watching Mr and Mrs Yeates’s appeal on BBC1’s Crimewatch programme.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349615/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabak-charged-murder-court-Monday.html#ixzz4QGk5zyx7

Quote
Following Tabak's arrest, the BBC cancelled its plans to air the Yeates re-enactment on Crimewatch. On 31 January, Yeates' family publicly released photos of her that previously had been scheduled to be broadcast on the programme.
http://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/tabak-vincent.htm

So how could the so called crying girl have exisited... She obviously did not see The Crime watch program as  it was never aired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtOST33-LjU
Quote
And for the first time we can here exclusively from Jo's parents David and Theresa Yeates and from her brother chris
uploaded Nov 6th 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtEeGrikBcI

 (they didn't even have the guy in a black coat stood next to the actress)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wv27l
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vlt25
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y4815


Where is this DRAMATIC New EVIDENCE???
 
Quote
By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED: 23:08, 23 January 2011

Interestingly too.... The Daily Mail reported that she had seen the Crime Watch Program before it was due to air on the 26th January 2011


Something else stands out... The DATE:  The 18th December 2010

So how can it be Dr Vincent Tabak he was supposed to have dumped Joanna Yeates after his Asda Trip on the 17th Dec 2010.

Quote
More evidence of a disturbance on December 17 has also emerged. A resident living in the building directly behind Miss Yeates’s flat told police he heard a woman screaming ‘Help me’ on the night she went missing.

From Kingdom:
Quote
http://www.bowlandcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94037&page=4&highlight=scream
Quote
It amazes me that some people on this forum are and have been so prepared to give VT the benefit of the doubt.
Quote
@Fortuny - let me elucidate you - I'd been confused as to how the murder could be anyone other than someone with access to these flats not only on friday 17th but also on saturday 18th.
Quote
Well i completely advocate the "innocent until proven guilty" line. I hadn't known there were two separate flats on the ground floor of that building - so i've never harbored any undue suspicions about VT because i didn't know of his existence until they arrested him.
Quote
When they arrested CJ, i was perhaps at best 70% persuaded of his guilt - and that was only for a few days. When they arrested VT - i was over 90% persuaded - especially when they charged him (actually i knew instinctively that they had got their man - not that i'm suggesting you build a case around instinct).
Quote
@Dyna - very interesting theory - the thing that struck me as odd at the time as well was that although i assumed the voice had come from Canynge Road - it sounded really strange - sort of near and far at the same time. Almost as if it were coming from directly underneath my window.
Quote
The other curious thing was ... i only heard the call once. Why didn't she call out again? The time would have been between 10 a.m. and just before 1 p.m. on saturday 18th - i'm guessing (as i went out at 1 p.m. to do some printing).
Quote
I'm still not convinced of the Friday night killing (for reasons posted earlier)
Quote
Actually this is the interview i actually gave : http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/NEIGHBOUR-HEARD-HELP/article-3132931-detail/article.html
Quote
@fortuny - the house number isn't no - 42. No i don't know the person that heard the screams. Having said that i thought i heard something, that could well have been significant during the day time - which has led me to believe that JY was possibly abducted on the saturday morning (which i can't really discuss on here for obvious reasons).
Quote
There's only three flats that overlook the back of CJ's house - (an abandoned shooting range one side).
(personally i believe the body was removed on the saturday morning by the way - and that she was still alive on the saturday morning).

http://www.bowlandcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94037&page=4&highlight=scream

This is clearly the neighbour who lives behind:

Did he testify to what he heard?


So... How could the evidence point to Dr. Vincent Tabak when they clearly didn't have the evidence in the first place????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 17, 2016, 04:17:12 PM
If Jo was killed on the 18th, it is unlikely that VT did it. Tanja was around then. When would he have done it, and how would he have got rid of the body?

This neighbour, posting on the forum, is sure that VT is guilty, but he does not say what evidence he has.  Why on earth should it HAVE to be someone from the flats who killed Jo?  In any case, the fact that he was 70 per cent sure of CJ's guilt at one stage, shows that he is just relying on emotion/gut feelings.

And, what about Mr Lickley's assertion that VT went to ASDA with Jo's body in the boot of his car???????  Obviously he didnt, if Jo was killed on the 18th.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 17, 2016, 04:28:23 PM
I'd just like to add this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDtLjPfdw0

Play it from  3 mins 38 sec to 4.00 mins

We know the crime watch Documentary was not aired... Recieved 300 new calls from what??? An unaired program???

Continue watching from 4:00 minutes

And clearly stated
Quote
Then... Shortly before the reconstruction was due to air,They made a dramatic breakthrough

Which we are aware of the DNA...(Partial DNA profile)

Answer me this.....because it really confuses me...

Why not air it anyway??? They might have recieved more information from the reconstruction!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 17, 2016, 04:42:59 PM
Quote
The fact that Tabak had admitted manslaughter helped a little but the central point of the trial – his intention when he killed Yeates

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/02/vincent-tabak-trial-tweeted

How can admitting to Manslaughter help a little?????????????????


Lets put this aside his saying:
Lets concentrate on the useless inadmissible searches instead!!!!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 18, 2016, 07:12:26 PM
hi again Alfie...

The prosecution said Dr Vincent Tabak had Joanna Yeates in his Flat for 1 hour before he went to Asda..

So how do thy know???????
Maybe he told them?  He did after all admit he did it.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 19, 2016, 02:13:44 AM
I'm surprised he hasn't asked to serve his sentence in Holland as the regime there has many more benefits.

http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2011/08/resort-like-prisons-of-netherlands.html
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 04:14:31 PM
Maybe he told them?  He did after all admit he did it.

You need to get to the understanding why Dr. Vincent Tabak's plea was made and If indeed he made it voluntarily...

He apparently gave a confession to a prison Chaplain Peter Brotherton.
Quote
Peter Brotherton, a voluntary Salvation Army chaplain at Long Lartin prison in Worcestershire said the Dutchman had unburdened himself on February 8 this year.
He said Tabak had requested a meeting, informing him: “I have something to tell you that will shock you.”
Giving evidence at Bristol Crown Court, Mr Brotherton said: “I said ‘you tell me and we will see’, or words to that effect.
“He said ‘I am going to change my plea to guilty’. He said it was to do with the crime he had committed.
“I said, ‘is this concerning the young lady from Bristol?’, he said ‘yes’.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8834133/Vincent-Tabak-confessed-Joanna-Yeates-killing-in-emotional-meeting-with-prison-chaplain.html

As A VOLUNTARY CHAPLAIN ..Chaplain Brotherton would have to satisfy the Free Church..
Quote
Formal endorsement from the candidate’s own denomination will be required via the Free Churches Faith Advisor.
http://www.freechurches.org.uk/Groups/256814/Free_Churches/Activities/Prison_Chaplaincy/Eligibility/Eligibility.aspx

Quote
Expected Formal Qualifications (as required for HMPS Contracted Posts)
Band 5  Ordained.

Free Church Chaplains (ordained) will have completed some period of post-ordination consolidation (normally at least 2 years post ordination/ training). They will have shown to the National Leadership of their denomination that they can effectively practice and fulfil the skills and competencies required of a Faith leader. Formal recognised qualification in theology or religious study and Professional Recognition by Denomination generally representing at least 3 years of study, normally to Degree standard.

Band 5 Non-Ordained 

Free Church Chaplains (non-ordained) are trained Faith practitioners in their own communities. They have demonstrated consistently to a range of people (academic / pastoral / practical) that they have effective communication and relational skills in order to have achieved this level of accreditation. Formal recognised qualification in theology or religious study generally representing at least three years of Part Time study, normally to Diploma standard.

Band 7 – Managing Chaplain

Must be suitably qualified and have a formal recognised qualification in theology or religious study and be experienced such that the job holder will have received formal endorsements (where relevant) from the faith community to which they belong.

Chaplain Brotherton would have had to have the endorsement of the free church??

 Did HE?????

And they would be whom Chaplain Brotherton  returned to for advise as to whether to divulge a prisoners confession....

Again... DID HE??



Quote
The chaplain told the court he then advised him to contact his legal team and inform them of the decision and offered to pray with him.
While Mr Brotherton accepted he had told Tabak the conversation would be in confidence, he decided to tell his superiors because he did not regard it as a religious confession...

Was this on another visit or the same visit... It read to me like the same visit.....

But This comment suggests.... That the Chaplain was going to inform the POLICE not THE FREE CHURCH.....
Because why advise DR Vincent Tabak on getting his LAWYER.... if he did NOT know what THE ADVICE WOULD BE!!!
The Advice would probably be from the FREE CHURCH and to wait and see if called as a witness......

But it appears that the Chaplain had decided immediateley that he was going to reveal his confess, because Dr Vincent Tabak answered angrily.....
Quote
Vincent Tabak was on suicide watch in prison when he is said to have told the Salvation Army’s Peter Brotherton: “I have got something to tell you that is going to shock you.”

Tabak then reacted angrily as Mr Brotherton told him he would not be able to keep the admission secret, the chaplain said.

Quote
Detectives questioned the 33-year-old Dutch engineer for three days after arresting him on 20 January. He was said to have constantly replied “no comment”, before he was charged with murdering Miss Yeates, 25.

Quote
But Tabak, who had been under 24-hour supervision at Long Lartin prison, was said to have told Mr Brotherton of his plan to “plead guilty” on 8 February. The chaplain had shaken hands with Tabak before he made the confession.
Quote
Mr Brotherton, who has been visiting prisoners since 1975, said “there was a little bit of anger” in Tabak’s voice after the chaplain said he would have to pass on the information.
(MUST BE A QUALIFIED CHAPLAIN)

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/joanna_s_killer_confessed_to_jail_chaplain_murder_trial_jury_is_told_1_1917420


Any information divulged by a PRISONER is classified as a confession, he is after all trusting this man to be there to guide him...

What qualifies as a confession to a Chaplain?????? A vulnerable Prisoner would see a Chapalin as a SAFE PLACE...

Did Chaplain Brotherton tell Dr Vincent Tabak he could divulge (NON) confessions??  Akin to reading him his rights!!!!

Did the Chaplain tell Dr Vincent Tabak of his rights???

Because.... Prison Chaplains are perceived as neutral

If Prison Chaplain are allowed to divulge the contents of a confessional, then it would be only fair in law that the prisoner have some kind of RIGHTS... And are informed of such right..When you are arrested you are given your caution rights:

Quote
You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."

Which superiors is Chaplain Brotherton refering too?

1: The Police?? well in RELIGIOUS TERMS THEY ARE NOT HIS SUPERIORS

2: The Church:Free Churches Faith Advisor. Senior church leaders to whom the volunteer chaplain would be actively accountable. http://www.freechurches.org.uk/Groups/256814/Free_Churches/Activities/Prison_Chaplaincy/Eligibility/Eligibility.aspx

3: Prison Staff: The Chaplaincy and the prison staff are seperate...

I say this because, holding a chaplaincy inside a prison where they are potentially serverley disturbed, emotion prisoners who need the help and support of someone when they feel VULNERABLE.

Did Chaplain Brotherton feel it was so necessary for him to INFORM on Dr Vincent Tabak whilst he was in custody, surely he should have been called as a PROSECUTION witness and divulged the confession under oath...
By DIVULGING this information before a trail would put Chaplain Brotherton in a most compromising position..

HOW WOULD PRISON INMATES EVER TRUST A CHAPLAIN AGAIN!!!!!

That bring up various questions:

Dr Vincent Tabak was surely seen as a VULNERABLE inmate:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/332161/jo-suspect-on-suicide-watch-in-tough-jail/

Yet according the http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Quote
17.2.5.That the man he allegedly confessed to in Long Lartin prison in Worcester was a
chaplain, yet he was not called to give evidence in court; that the man said he knew that
Tabak was not a practising Christian and yet he went to see Dr Tabak several times to
develop a relationship with him.

So... Peter Brotherton did not give testamony at the Tail which Dr Vincent Tabak was subsequently found GUILTY.

Practicing Christian??? That's another question...

What are the rules regarding Prison Chaplains, within the Prison Service.???

There are guidelines for Prison Chaplaincy and reports are gathered in regards to their service.

REFERENCES FROM:http://www.stpadarns.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Todd-and-Tipton-2011-Report-on-Prison-Chaplaincy.pdf

Quote
Further, it appears that honouring and respecting the religious and cultural plurality of
the contemporary prison that the prison chaplains, and indeed other staff, goes hand
in hand with being often highly sensitive to any suggestion of their proselytizing:

So let not try to convert from one religion to another....

Quote
The chaplains of today are not here to judge or convert anyone, or anything like
that, they are just here to talk to and give prisoners support.’
(Prison Governor, 2010)

YET.... Chaplain Brotherton decided on his own that he could JUDGE Dr Vincent Tabak and divulege his supposed confession. If within the report it says they should NOT judge, then he had no reason to seek advice on any matter.Therefore he wasn't following protocol... which in any line of work is VITAL!!!!!

Quote
3.3. A Prison Chaplain - Prison Officer Continuum
‘The prison chaplain should never confuse their role with the role of the prison
officer…that would be a fatal mistake.’
(Prisoner, 2010)

Again... He has a role and one role only...

Quote
(1) the chaplain should not confuse and thus
contaminate their pastoral role with the disciplinary role of the officer and (2) the
chaplain’s role and standing as ‘chaplain’ accords them a ‘neutrality’, or
‘independence’ that is central to their ability to provide that pastoral care. This is a
multi-faceted aspect of the chaplain’s role, where neutrality/independence connects
with: chaplains not having the same perceived ‘authority’ as a prison officer; their
being able to relate in human way with prisoners; their being ‘in-betweeners’; their
having ‘time’ for people; and their being non-judgemental.

So they are looked upon by the prison population as UNBIAS..... Which gives prisoners a release from the pressure they may be under whilst incarcerated.. Not to mention the fact of VUNERABLE OR SUICDAL prisonser may respond in the knowledge a prison Chaplain would divulge there words...

To not have the role of the Prison Chaplain and the Prison staff seperated can be Dangerous:

Quote
‘We therefore have to use the role of the chaplain to kind of meet some of the
political concerns and pressures prisons are currently facing. We just have to be
careful how far we push as the lines that separate, that demarcate, those different
roles. Losing that neutrality and losing that kind of professional role as a religious
leader is a danger’
(Prison Governor, 2010)

Prisoners beliefs as regards the role of a chaplain:
Quote
‘ I find that when I am at my lowest ebb or when I have situations that I am not
comfortable speaking to the screws or cons about because of trust issues with cons
and insensitivity with officers; I always know that there is someone in the chapel I can
talk to.’
(Prisoner, 2010)

Dr Vincent Tabak was described as a non believer in faith, the prison chaplain cover all people:

Question: Even though Dr Vincent Tabak said that he was a NON BELIEVER, did Chaplain Brotherton discuss if DR Vincent Tabak had ever Practiced any religion prior to his NON BELIEVER STATUS..
The reason I say this and knowing many people who haven't followed there faiths, say they are no longer practicing.. and no matter how hard they try to leave it behind, it is always with them....

So if Dr Vincent Tabak was an atheist now... had he had Religous teaching before which may have lead him back to CHAPLAIN BROTHERTON as a confidant... And without CHAPLAIN BROTHERTON proving Dr Vincent Tabak never had any RELIGOUS teaching in his life, HOW WOULD IT BE CLEAR CUT THAT DR VINCENT TABAK WAS AN ATHEIST?????.

Infact DUTCH SCHOOLS DO TEACH RELIGION:
Quote
Religious education in Dutch schools.
Understanding the relevance of Dutch religious education makes it necessary to know something
about Dutch education in general.
Quote
Religious education in schools.
Each primary school has the subject teaching world religion and worldviews (teaching about
religion). The subject, introduced in 1985, aims to enhance tolerance in Dutch society.
Dr Vincent Tabak would have been of Primary age then, so It's more than likely he had some form of Religous Education

http://mmiweb.org.uk/eftreold/reeurope/netherlands_2013.pdf

Quote
(D) The Professional Seeker – Prisoners loosely classifiable as agnostics who do
not ascribe to a particular faith, but attended a wide range of services and most
chaplaincy classes and events,(E) The opportunist – Prisoners who openly claim not to be interested in faith or
religion but value chaplaincy as a safe space; an escape from the wings.
‘ You don’t have to necessarily believe in God to come here; to enjoy a service. It is a
place for anyone to get away; enjoy some peace, sing a song or two and have a
cuppa and a digestive.’
Quote
‘The chaplain, you know, they help me escape prison. Not just this prison but my own
prison, you know? You can trust the chaplain, you know. Tell them stuff you wouldn’t
tell noone else.’


The Reason that Brotherton Claimed it was Ok for him to inform on Dr Vincent Tabak was because of his lack of faith....
So it would appear that Dr Vincent Tabak would be aware of the neutrality of the Chaplain Service Provided.
Or he wouldn't of decided to confess all to a CHAPLAIN...
Indeed it is quite common for non believer and believer to turn to a CHAPLAIN...

Quote
‘When you are in prison you are locked up for some long stretches of time and I think
it is a natural inclination for a man isolated from his world to look for God, to start to
strive for something beyond himself.’
(Prisoner, 2010)
Quote
These experiences were consistently reported as being largely facilitated by
incarceration itself, in that the individual has a lot of ‘time’, and in many ways often
feels forced into asking existential questions; in particular about their life and its
direction. In that sense the isolation inherent in incarceration seems to be closely
linked with a pull towards some kind of spiritual or religious reflection that eases the
pains of prison life.
Quote
The final commonly expressed value of prison chaplaincy was its provision of an
escape from the prison regime - in particular the prisoner’s cell and the wings. This
was expressed both in terms of the chaplaincy area as a safe, human or neutral
space, and the figure of the chaplain as a safe confidant, largely as a result of their
perceived neutrality, or independence.

Quote
3.6. Chaplaincy as Safe Place
‘the wings can be pretty ugly places and for many men, even those of no religious
belief, this place is a God send – if you will pardon the pun!’
(Prisoner, 2010)

Quote
Another distinctive aspect of the contribution made by prison chaplaincy, reported
across participant groups, was its provision of a relatively unique safe place within
the prison. Importantly the devout, returners, converts, professional seekers and the
eternally opportunistic all reported valuing the safety this place accorded. The safety
of the prison chaplaincy space seemed to be related to its perceived non-prison
status and the neutrality described earlier

So if Chaplain Brotherton lead to Dr Vincent Tabaks supposed confession and susequent signed confession of which.....
 I'd love to see him sat with his lawyer having been explained to that the Chaplain would not likely divulge such sensitive material. And advising not to sign...

The written Confession was typed... And had not more information other than a plea of guilt... `to manslaughter, with no specific details regarding the action taken to come to this conclusion...

In my opinion I find that suspcious in it's self...


Quote
In a typed statement signed
by Vincent Tabak in September 2011, Tabak claimed that he didn't intend death or serious

Quote
It is alleged that Tabak made a confession2
 to an unlicensed prison chaplain, who was not
called to give evidence, a most pertinent point.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

How can thsis be?????/

The Salvation Army comes under The Free Church group:http://www.freechurches.org.uk/Articles/385438/Free_Churches/Activities/Prison_Chaplaincy/Blog/Salvation_Army_Chaplains.aspx


Eligibility to work as a Prison Chaplain:
Quote
If you are from a Free Churches background and wish to work as a Chaplain in a prison in England and Wales then you need to be eligible to do so. This means that you must be a minister, either lay or ordained of a Free Church denomination which is either a member of the Free Churches Group, or Churches Together in England or Churches Together in Wales (eligible denominations listed here). You must have studied biblical or pastoral studies to a level acceptable to your group or denomination and be accredited as a minister by them.


So if in fact Chaplain Brotherton did not seek advice from the Free Church, who did he seek advice from as regards Dr Vincent Tabak??

And if his confession to the chaplain  is null and void, then his supposed written confession is too, because it was gained under false pretences.... IN MY OPINION......

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 04:39:09 PM
Not sure how you work out his confession should be null and void when he followed through with the process at his trial, crying and saying sorry. To me that says his confession was the truth and something he wanted to be known

Not sure also how you know what was explained to him by the Chaplain and what his lack of faith can to do hinder his actions

Having spoken at length to someone who often had dealings with a Prison Chaplain in more than one Prison, I know they CAN and Do disclose anything that can be harmful to someone else.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 04:55:12 PM


Having spoken at length to someone who often had dealings with a Prison Chaplain in more than one Prison, I know they CAN and Do disclose anything that can be harmful to someone else.

Is this person a Prisoner/former Prisoner?

What capacity do they have within the Prisons system??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 05:15:54 PM
Salvation Army...

Ensure that confidential information is not disclosed to a third party unless there is a clear justification which may include

1. The valid consent of the individual (which may well have happened)
2. Where  there is risk of serious harm to self or others
3. The prevention, detection or prosecution of a serious crime!
4. And when required by law or by order of a court or other public body that has jurisdiciton


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 05:25:49 PM
I'm surprised he hasn't asked to serve his sentence in Holland as the regime there has many more benefits.

http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2011/08/resort-like-prisons-of-netherlands.html


That is an extremley good question John????

Why hasn't Dr Vincent Tabak asked for his sentence to be served in his native country of Holland??

I would really like to know that too....

Especially as his family are there and his Mother is an old lady.......  There is nothing for him in this country and nobody supporting him he knows......

So why hasn't he asked to be TRANSFERRED!!!!!   
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 05:51:27 PM
If you read the PSI for foreign prisoners it explains about sex offenders and their relevance to the process beginning
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 06:11:06 PM
Salvation Army...

Ensure that confidential information is not disclosed to a third party unless there is a clear justification which may include

1. The valid consent of the individual (which may well have happened)
2. Where  there is risk of serious harm to self or others
3. The prevention, detection or prosecution of a serious crime!
4. And when required by law or by order of a court or other public body that has jurisdiciton

Quote
6.2. CHAPLAINCY
6.2.1. This has been a year of great challenge for the Chaplaincy. With
eighteen registered faiths, a depleted team has coped valiantly to provide
daily pastoral care and appropriate religious services.
6.2.2. During a three month period three of the longest serving Christian
Chaplains retired and, although the Roman Catholic Chaplain was
replaced reasonably soon, it has taken some time to fill the other two
vacancies. Their security clearances are now awaited. In the meantime,
the depleted Chaplaincy Team have been faced with ever increasing
pastoral duties, including an unusually heavy number of recently bereaved
prisoners.
6.2.3. The Board would like to commend the dedication and extreme hard
work shown by this temporarily diminished department.
I know this refers possibly to a Chaplain who's entire career was served at Long Lartin... But.. what if it means A Chaplain who is the longest serving prison Chaplin as a career??? http://www.imb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/long-lartin-2011-2012.pdf

again I can't find Chaplain Brotherton http://www.ukbhc.org.uk/civicrm/profile?gid=5&reset=1&force=1&search=0

Before I answer your question Jixy..... I'm looking at Chaplain Brotherton whom has been a prison Chaplain since 1975
https://www.channel4.com/news/tabak-planned-to-plead-guilty-trial-hears

Chaplain Brotherton looks like he is close to retirement if he hasn't already retired, and there been suggestions on the Internet that he may have retired.

But....... because of the high profile of the case, I thought that i would be able to find one article on Chaplain Peter Brotherton.

But i'm finding it difficult... The only other Chaplain Brotherton I can find is.........

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/scooter-boy-chaplain-bids-navy-farewell/story-12898361-detail/story.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wear/features/2004/07/chaplain.shtml

And when I try and search anything to do with CHAPLAIN PETER BROTHERTON, I fail to find anything...
Unless it's related to The Joanna yeates case and Dr Vincent Tabak...



AND..... when searching other sources i find this..... https://www.crockford.org.uk/searchresults?term=Brotherton&type=C&contains=0&WW=1&cat=9Living


SO....... Where is Chaplain PETER BROTHERTON...... Micheal Brotherton is there??????
In My Opinion, I find that quite Odd......


Could you please link me to where you got your information from Jixy,... I like to read what else it says thankyou

Then I can as accuratley as i can reply to your questions...






[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 06:12:05 PM
If you read the PSI for foreign prisoners it explains about sex offenders and their relevance to the process beginning

Links Please Jixy

He was not classed as a SEX OFFENDER, when he supposedly confessed to the Chaplain!!!!

But please show me the links

He hadn't been convicted of "ANY CRIME" at that time...!!!!!



If it relates to sex offender jixy.... they were abit late in convicting him of that crime...
Was that to back themselves UP!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 09:07:58 PM
I have another question that niggles me:........

Why wasn't Dr Vincent Tabak ever given the ability to speak to a Dutch National???

The reason I say this is as follows:

When incarcerated in a foreign prison you would expect that Dr.Vincent Tabak would yearn to hear his native tongue....( feeling isolated an alone with no support)...

So for him to refuse the possibility of being able to speak to anyone who is a Dutch Natiional, seems unlikely to me....

Quote
The judge established that Tabak, who works at an international design company in Bath, did not need an interpreter.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/25/joanna-yeates-accused-vincent-tabak-remanded

Yet he was flanked by one.... this implies he always had access to a Dutch National...(And it looks fair in the media)(IMO)

But..... that In My Opinion, says we've covered the bases.. no one will question it...

Clearly Dr Vincent Tabak did not Have a Dutch National to Advise him of what happens in a foreign country... Which for the FAIRNESS of a Trail.. seems to be the least he could have....

And surely as his family were trying to raise money for his defence, he would have had at least Dutch legal representation!!!!
Quote
They just had a good time together as a family – totally normal, nothing strange.”
His comments came after the first appearance in court by Mr Tabak, 32, who is accused of the murder of Miss Yeates, 25.
On Monday, staff and students at Eindhoven Technical University, where Mr Tabak studied architectural engineering, announced the creation of a fighting fund to aid his defence..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8280005/Joanna-Yeates-murder-suspect-Vincent-Tabak-enjoyed-normal-family-Christmas.html

If a British Citizen was arrested and charged in a forgeign country.. surely they would go to the British Embassy for advice and support....

Where is the evidence that Dr Vincent Tabak was afford the same luxury??????????




Surely whilst he was in Long Larton he would have asked for a dutch national to talk to???



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350176/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabak-dock-towering-interpreter.html
I thought he'd stated he didn't need an interpretator?????
So why provide one at Trial to make it look like evry aspect of the Prisoner right was being adhered too????

Ever press report aims to confuse... And they sure do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



why did he get an interpretor in the dock but not as an official confidant????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 09:19:00 PM
I think you need to rewind a bit.

I mentioned him being a Sex Offender, not in relation to him talking to anyone or confessing but in reply to your comment about him returning to his home country

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 09:20:45 PM
As you have been editing your posts, I think you have lost the plot
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 09:28:47 PM
I think you need to rewind a bit.

I mentioned him being a Sex Offender, not in relation to him talking to anyone or confessing but in reply to your comment about him returning to his home country

You still haven't supplied me with links to back up your arguement Jixy....

Being a Sex offender, wouldn't be a problem returning to his own country.... as far as i'm aware.. The Dutch don't have "A Sex Offenders Register"......
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 09:33:20 PM
As you have been editing your posts, I think you have lost the plot

I would like to make it clear... that all i do when i post a statement is that i back it up with the evidence I can find to support any statement I may make... (occasionally I edit my posts)

I am simply an oldish lady.... That has an issue with what IMO I see as Unfair and Unjust... Hasn't anything that I have said in my post pricked your ears up and gone.....

Well that is weird?????????????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 09:37:35 PM
excuse me but I don't need capital letters and lots of exclamation marks to get the point. you asked about him returning home, I started to explain one of the reasons

No I think lots of things are weird but not about the case
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 09:41:56 PM
The Sex Offenders Register and point of view that so fascinates you, you need to read up further  and any prisoner returning to their home country has a list of things that will disqualify them.

They pushed for the Sex Offences to be put before the court so on release, his potential danger if he was to returned to his home country would be fully logged

A poor woman died but you seem to defend him and all that he is including his preferences for searches on the internet

Me? im disgusted!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 09:53:25 PM
Instead of editing my last post I'll write another........

From day one, the case against Dr Vincent Tabak has concerned me....

 I have this ability to annoy my family for the past 6 years we are approaching... to pose questions i have about the case that was made against Dr Vincent Tabak....

My husband is currently pulling his hair out... my daughter allows me one question a day on the subject.... Something about this case has pricked my concious about what happened.. And as I have stated previously...

When it doesn't add up somebody is lying...

I've been asked on this forum.. why not look at other cases that apparently more deserving?


But what makes one case more deserving than another....

I cannot help the fact that every so often... This case sends me in the direction to try and find the TRUTH...

And I have spent years finding forums on and off that have this particular case available for me to comment on...

All the original forums I had expressed an opinion on this case have been REMOVED from the internet!!!

As I said before I don't understand why??????

What is so wrong trying to find out WHAT REALLY happened in the Joanna Yeates Case?????


Again I hold my hand up and say Dr Vincent Tabak is Innocent... I cannot see where the due process came...

God help any foreign National in his position in the future...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH FAIR...HONEST AND OPEN???? That's all I'm saying ... Thats all I require....

Ok then.... Lets give Dr Vincent Tabak a re-Trail.. based on the so called evidence the prosecution presented!!!!!

And I would like to thank mrswah for starting this topic as most other forums regarding Dr Vincent Tabak.. NO LONGER EXIST.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 09:56:52 PM
The Sex Offenders Register and point of view that so fascinates you, you need to read up further  and any prisoner returning to their home country has a list of things that will disqualify them.

They pushed for the Sex Offences to be put before the court so on release, his potential danger if he was to returned to his home country would be fully logged

A poor woman died but you seem to defend him and all that he is including his preferences for searches on the internet

Me? im disgusted!


 I find that quite offensive... I am more than aware Joanna Yeates lost her life and her families agony must be intolerable.....

I could never imagine and prey to God that I am not ever in their position to feel such pain and anguish
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 10:02:06 PM
My post is neither offensive or untrue. A poor lady died and you defend him at every turn. That is fact not offensive. You write it, I have read it and at every turn you have an excuse, a reason for his behaviour, something to over rule his admission  of guilt

None of which he has said himself and the rest you fill in on your assumption. None of that is offensive There is much more that could be classed as that, none of which I have posted
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 10:11:32 PM
My post is neither offensive or untrue. A poor lady died and you defend him at every turn. That is fact not offensive. You write it, I have read it and at every turn you have an excuse, a reason for his behaviour, something to over rule his admission  of guilt

None of which he has said himself and the rest you fill in on your assumption. None of that is offensive There is much more that could be classed as that, none of which I have posted

Offensive yes.... As if I have forgotten that a poor young lady lost her life... her family are still living with that...

I am merely pointing out that with the evidence I have gathered that the POLICE did not have evidence to charge Dr Vincent Tabak...

Whether you go from Chaplain Brotherton Confession

To... The PARTIAL DNA. which could only rule out a suspect..

To The  sobbing woman whom contributed to the evidence the police had against Dr Vincent Tabak....

And the spurious searches on google.. wiki ..etc..

What evidence did the Police have to take this man to court???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 19, 2016, 10:13:24 PM
One point to remember things can be far more transparent than the story teller believes.... added detail to set the scene can just confirm it  8(0(*
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 10:39:09 PM
If Dr Vincent Tabak is indeed guilty of the Charges that have been laid against him... And a show trail..

Prove it... Prove it with hard Evidence and Facts..

Show me Evidence that SHOWS intent...

Show me Evidence that he even came into contact with Joanna Yeates..
The Partial DNA only rules a suspect out... to match it the would need a relative..
Quote
When a crime-scene DNA sample matches a profile in the database at most, but not all loci, the individual from the database is excluded. However, it is very likely that a close relative is the source of that DNA rather than a random, unrelated individual. These partial matches can be used by investigators to find the individual who left the DNA at the crime scene
Quote
David Bruce Bowen - in 1979 eight year-old Kenneth Conrick was tortured and murdered; the case went unsolved for 30 years. Investigators recently obtained a DNA sample from Bowen’s sister, which showed enough similarities to DNA found on the victim and his clothing at the crime scene to allow investigators to obtain a warrant for Bowen's DNA. Bowen’s DNA profile matched the profile from semen on cords used to strangle the boy. Bowen pled guilty and admitted that he strangled and stabbed the victim after molesting him.

The sample was PARTIAL... not a full DNA profile......

Show me that they approach a relative for a sample of DNA..

That's all I require... Facts!!( And other people who have expressed concern over Dr Vincent Tabaks conviction)

 Did Dr Vincent Tabaks family member provide a DNA sample that could either rule him as the supplier of that DNA sample or Rule him out......

Show me that he INTENDED to murder somebody.... Anybody!!

Show me and all the other people who have doubts about Dr Vincent Tabak's conviction that he was indeed THEIR MAN...

And again I'm editing my post,...

Because when you supply the Hard evidence that prove Dr Vincent Tabak commited this Crime...maybe people like me and other who have questioned how Dr Vincent Tabak was treated ... will stop asking about this CONVICTION....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Kayden Paradox on November 19, 2016, 11:01:43 PM
Sorry Nine, VT admitted his guilt now let him serve his sentence in peace. His family aren't banging on and pleading for a miscarriage of justice and his girlfriend of that time certainly isn't. She and her family are just thankful that she didn't meet the same fate as the victim, FACT!  No matter what anyone says on here, if they don't conform to your way of thinking then you shout them down or worse still, you go and find a link to suit your own belief. Sorry but anyone can produce a link to agree with the ridiculous to the sublime. You mention about other forums that you have commented on having been taken down, have you sat back and asked yourself why? After reading some of the stuff on this board it isn't too hard to see why. Oh and the repatriation of him to his own country, I recommend you take a look at what Jixy mentioned, PSI for prisoners. Another thing to consider, his home nation can decline any request from him to be sent back. Oh and the other thing Jixy mentioned, the Salvation army that's  another good read. At least you can read from two legitimate and credible websites. Just a little question if I may, do you and mrswah know each other? I only ask as at times when you've both been posting it is as if you were in the same room. My mistake if not.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 19, 2016, 11:20:48 PM
Sorry Nine, VT admitted his guilt now let him serve his sentence in peace. His family aren't banging on and pleading for a miscarriage of justice and his girlfriend of that time certainly isn't. She and her family are just thankful that she didn't meet the same fate as the victim, FACT!  No matter what anyone says on here, if they don't conform to your way of thinking then you shout them down or worse still, you go and find a link to suit your own belief. Sorry but anyone can produce a link to agree with the ridiculous to the sublime. You mention about other forums that you have commented on having been taken down, have you sat back and asked yourself why? After reading some of the stuff on this board it isn't too hard to see why. Oh and the repatriation of him to his own country, I recommend you take a look at what Jixy mentioned, PSI for prisoners. Another thing to consider, his home nation can decline any request from him to be sent back. Oh and the other thing Jixy mentioned, the Salvation army that's  another good read. At least you can read from two legitimate and credible websites. Just a little question if I may, do you and mrswah know each other? I only ask as at times when you've both been posting it is as if you were in the same room. My mistake if not.

Hi kayden..... There are many questions you have posed and you think that all I want to do is shout people down and provide links to support my arguements....

I thought that when you posted on forums that instead of just spouting, you actually could provide links with quotes to substanciate what you are saying...

That is all I am trying to do... I was taught in a previous job, that I needed evidence too support any claims that were made... Maybe that is why I always use links and quotes.....

I'm not shouting people down per say.. I'm very passionate about how I feel.....

And that just covers part of your post...

Please provide me with Tanja Morson.... I would love for her to make an offical statement ( on oath)as to her relationship at the time with Dr Vincent Tabak and his behaviour during the time prior to his arrest...( also whether she harboured suspisions about him)


Oh and on the question of mrswah another forum contributor... I don't know her from Adam....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 20, 2016, 02:25:05 AM
I haven't been around tonight, and I see some of you have been very busy!!!!

Kayden, it is true that Nine and I do not know each other-----at all.   Also, I will state (although nobody has actually asked me) that I am in no way connected with anyone involved in the case!

I believe Jixy is right about people on the sex offenders register not being eligible for the Early Removal Scheme (ie back to one's home country).  I'm not posting a link, because (I am ashamed to say) I do not know how to copy and paste links----not very good at IT, I'm afraid.  However, I found it on the prison reform website.

If VT is serving out his sentence "in peace" because he knows he is guilty, then all well and good.  If, however, he is not guilty, there is NO WAY he will be serving out his sentence in peace!

We don't actually know that his family and girlfriend all believe he is guilty, even though we don't hear about them, and even though they all issued apologies/condolences to the Yeates family after the trial (which I thought was odd,  as one doesn't usually hear about the families of convicted criminals doing that).  There has been very little reported in the press since the trial (apart from the child porn conviction), so we don't know exactly what is going on.  I suspect there is a reason why the press is being so quiet, but then, I am a suspicious person!  I also strongly suspect there is a reason (other than believing in VT's guilt) why his family and friends are not protesting his innocence.

I also suspect that it is in the interests of the powers that be over here to keep VT in this country.  If he was back in Holland, he might just start talking, and so might his family.  Just my opinion, of course!  I will be very interested to see what happens when he has done his 20 years---whether they will find a reason to keep him in prison for longer, or whether they let him return to Holland.  I hope I live long enough to find out.

By the way, not all the forums have been taken down:  Websleuths and Bowland Central have good ones, and they make very interesting reading from back in 2011.

I have no faith in VT's confession, I am afraid, and I think his conviction is very dodgy, as the evidence does not stand up.  However, there is very little that I can do about it. I only hope, that one day, somebody with some real power questions this case.

BTW, a few people have suggested that I investigate "more worthwhile" cases where there may be a MOJ.  Apart from one person suggesting I look at Mark Alexander (which I am doing), nobody has suggested which ones they think are worth looking at. Well????????   

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 20, 2016, 08:05:09 AM
I can see why Kayden Paradox would think you know each other, your style of posts use of capitals ???? brackets and speech marks are almost identical. Easy mistake to make I guess

Was it people on this forum who suggested you look at other cases Mrswah? I know I suggested it to Nine. Maybe ask others which cases would be worth time looking further into. There are at least a couple of solid obvious miscarriage of justice cases even by the Judges comments alone
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 20, 2016, 10:27:21 AM
Thanks Jixy

I hadn't noticed that my style of writing/use of punctuation was like "Nine"'s!!  There is, however, one important difference:  Nine knows how to copy and paste, and I dont---at least, not on a Chromebook!!

I have become interested in the cases of Colin Norris and--indeed--Mark Anderson.  Would be interested to know who you (or any other poster) consider to be wrongly convicted.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 20, 2016, 10:28:17 AM
AAAGH!!!   Sorry, I meant Mark Alexander!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 20, 2016, 08:06:55 PM


Was it people on this forum who suggested you look at other cases Mrswah? I know I suggested it to Nine. Maybe ask others which cases would be worth time looking further into. There are at least a couple of solid obvious miscarriage of justice cases even by the Judges comments alone

 What other Cases do you suggest Jixy? I'd seen  a documentary on TV about the thread you've started Sadie Hartley...

I unfortunatley always come back to this one...

There are so many things that don't make any sense..... Apart from Dr Vincent Tabak not having a Motive!!!
The crime scene is extremeley weird...

Who has a door with a letter box but no hole to put the letters through???

There more I look the more I see.... It's completely barking mad!!!

Any ideas?????? I've downloaded a pdf  on PSI you were talking about, just need a minute to look at it closely.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 20, 2016, 08:12:25 PM
The Sadie Hartley documentary was horrific, not a case to concentrate on
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 20, 2016, 09:55:35 PM
I was looking at an old case which always bring me back to the JY case..

I remember early on in the investigation, that they were looking to see if their was a link between Joanna yeates and Glenis Caruthers..

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/the-unsolved-murder-in-the-dark/story-29916468-detail/story.html


Jixy what cases are you most convinced that an innocent person is in prison???? I'm guessing your a he Jixy??
And what would you do to try and prove their innocence????

Infact this case on Glenis Caruthers should interest you jixy... there's glasses in it.... Didn't they find part of some glasses???


But the glenis Caruther case... never solved... Did they have any DNA from that case?
I think the connection is a possibility, It's very curious indeed....

It would make more sense than to have Dr Vincent Tabak as their man???

 Why doesn't the Pictures make sense...  ( It looks like an artist drawing. . )The connection to Clifton surely couldn't have been ignored by the Police??? she too had no socks on... And what happened too her bag and coat????

Didn't i read somewhere she was going to ring someone at a phone box ?? (think it might have been her boyfriend)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8463395.stm

They mention body fluids... That was never mentioned in the Joanna Yeates case... If she was killed in her flat as they say... where are the body fluids??

And on the first link I've made available,, she does have a Look of Joanna Yeates....

Did they ever chase the lead up on Glenis Caruthers with regards the Joanna Yeates case?????
 

Dr Vincent Tabak wouldn't have been old enough then...  ( infact he wasn't even born...)

Again a couple on the park... In the Glenis Caruthers case...

A couple at a party in the Joanna Yeates case...

Didn't Glenis Caruthers go missing from a Party??


And what about the workman's van that was seen in the middle of the road... The night Joanna Yeates went missing??? there was work going on at the house next door to Joanna yeates....

where there any work going on near where Glenis Caruthers was staying???

What other similarities do you think these cases have??




That picture they show of tabak after his arrest looks doctored his eye brows are all wrong... They are trying to make him look like an evil monster!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055938/Vincent-Tabak-kept-sick-trophy-murder-Jo-Yeates-4ft-wall-helped-captured-killer.html

Another question why didn't Dr Vincent Tabak have any psychatrists  at the trial????? He was after all on suicide watch... Did he ever undergo a psychiatric evaluation??

If so wouldn't that have given him mitigating circumstances??? they could have determinded if he had any underlying psycholgical issues...

That surely would have Added to the manslaughter charge and cast Doubt on the murder conviction???


Did they ever chase the lead up on Glenis Caruthers?????  It all seemed to go Very quiet once they had Dr Vincent tabak in the frame...........




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 20, 2016, 11:36:59 PM
The police did question Chris Jefferies re Glenis Carruthers, I believe, as he was living in the area at the time, and would have been old enough to have been involved.

The murder of GC is a "cold case" from 1974.  This is why I have said that CJ was in a dangerous position when they arrested him: they could have stitched him up for both.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 21, 2016, 12:24:52 AM
If I can take you back to the posts concerning Vincent Tabak's confession to the cleric for a moment.  It has been suggested that the cleric somehow broke a confidence by reporting the confession.  If he did so what?

The breaking of a confidence between a prisoner and a cleric is not something which can overturn a conviction on a technicality.  Tabak saw the need to confess to what he had done, no doubt he has a conscience and needed to confess to somebody.

On another point, Tabak has freely admitted to manslaughter although unfortunately for him the CPS was having none of it and brought a murder charge against him.  If Tabak accidentally strangled Miss Yeates he should have accepted his fate instead of attempting to hide her body and evade justice.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 10:58:04 AM
If I can take you back to the posts concerning Vincent Tabak's confession to the cleric for a moment.  It has been suggested that the cleric somehow broke a confidence by reporting the confession.  If he did so what?

The breaking of a confidence between a prisoner and a cleric is not something which can overturn a conviction on a technicality.  Tabak saw the need to confess to what he had done, no doubt he has a conscience and needed to confess to somebody.

On another point, Tabak has freely admitted to manslaughter although unfortunately for him the CPS was having none of it and brought a murder charge against him.  If Tabak accidentally strangled Miss Yeates he should have accepted his fate instead of attempting to hide her body and evade justice.


How do we know that Dr Vincent Tabak freely admitted to manslaughter????

Did he not tell the Chaplain he'd done something??
Maybe he was going to admit to the porn... Because of Tanja...
Without knowing what was actually said in confidence to the Chaplain.. we don't know...

His representation changed, was he preared fully for what was about to face him....  Why was he not evaluated??

If he was in a depressive state, why would a clergy man want to push him over the edge??

Surely prisoners confess all the time to the Prison Chaplain...... Thought as Ive said before that they were neutrel..
And only report if there is risk to other prisoners or themselves...
Would have thought it was more of a Risk to Dr Vincent Tabak who was in a depressive state to even report it......

Confidants are need in prisons, it strike a bit of a balance for the harsh realities of the prisoner confinement..
A Chaplain with a tendancy to divulge information is hardly a confidant.... Pastrol care is a vital source in a prison enviroment..

It helps the prison itself if the prisoners have an outlet this in turn protects prison staff,, a relatively happy medium..

There could not be a Chaplaincy program within a prison, if prisoners themselves felt that they could not look to them for guidence and support and someone who they might divulge their inner most secrets...And who in turn would keep that information to themselves..


It would also make the Chaplaincy more vulnerable to violent attacks from unstable prisoners...

Why would you want to risk, putting yourself in that position???

Prisoners talk and therefore it put Chaplains at risk, And if theres no confidence in the Chaplaincy program... It wouldn't run.



After his supposed confession, why wasn't he given a medical assessment? what fair treatment did Dr Vincent Tabak recieve????


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 11:07:23 AM
Why on an earlier picture of the Flat Joanna Yeates lived in the is an intercom/ door bell there yet removed later??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344610/Joanna-Yeates-snatched-killer-went-check-post.html

Door on 6th January intake with letter box....

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02024/front-door_2024941i.jpg The intercom / doorbell is missing????

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/21/article-2051786-0E58C21700000578-967_634x405.jpg
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1390286.main_image.jpg?strip=all


Why does the picture on the 6th january show the intercom but not later... You would have thought if that was evidence it would have been removed sooner to protect it from the element......



The collect their post.... I have questions regarding this:


Joanna yeates flat has a peep hole, Greg says she always double locks the door... If she was uncomfortable with being on her own, why would she open the door to a man she had not seen/meet or didn't know...

I do not believe it is possible to kill someone in 20 seconds... yet have a slow lingering death..

How is that possible...???

It is possible how every for Joanna Yeates to go to the communal hall to collect mail etc....

Who else had access to the communal hall....??
That would take her out of her flat..... Because evidence of a violent struggle in the flat seems to be lacking....

The fact she was strangled by one hand i envisage that it's someone who is angry with her... Grabbing her by the throat in a violent threating manner....

Could have pinned her up by the throat.....

The prosecution do not know what happened to Joanna Yeates or where it happened to Joanna Yeates..
They just summised what took place....

Just like I have summised a possible senario....

What made her mum think she was abducted...?????


Another curious case I found was of a clifton teacher (not CJ) who appeared in court in Tauton...

Theres always Pizza beer and some sort of games involved... (shard of console at Joanna yeates flat) And child porn!!

Whats with the Pizza????

Quote
Jonathan Thomson-Glover was a teacher for 31 years at Clifton College
He was jailed last year after admitting filming 130 children over 16 years
New report reveals three headteachers ignored parents' complaints
Parents complained as early as 1998 about 'unsuitable rewards' including beer, pizza and computer games nights held at German teacher's home


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3743153/THREE-headteachers-33-000-year-private-school-failed-act-pervert-teacher-jailed-videoing-130-children-secret-cameras-tied-chair-half-naked-times.html#ixzz4QdWceUa9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 21, 2016, 07:48:42 PM

How do we know that Dr Vincent Tabak freely admitted to manslaughter????


Tabak, a 33-year-old engineer, denies murdering 25-year-old Yeates but admits manslaughter. The prosecution alleges Tabak murdered Yeates at her flat in Bristol before dumping the body on a roadside verge three miles away.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/18/joanna-yeates-vincent-tabak-admission
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 21, 2016, 07:51:16 PM
Vincent Tabak 'told chaplain he would admit killing Joanna Yeates'

Vincent Tabak told prison chaplain Peter Brotherton: 'I've something to tell you that's going to shock you', court told.

A prison chaplain has described the moment Vincent Tabak told him he would admit to killing the landscape architect Joanna Yeates.

Tabak was in the health unit at Long Lartin prison in Worcestershire because of fears that he could kill himself while being held over Yeates's death, Bristol crown court heard on Tuesday.

Tabak asked to speak to chaplain Peter Brotherton and told him he was feeling "so-so", the court heard. He went on: "I've got something to tell you that's going to shock you." Brotherton told the jury that he replied: "You tell me and we'll see."

Brotherton said the prisoner told him: "I'm going to change my plea to guilty." Brotherton asked him if it was "concerning the young lady from Bristol". Tabak replied that it was, the jury was told.

The court was told that the chaplain asked him if he was sorry for what he had done, and Tabak replied that he was. He went on to say he would find it "very difficult" to tell his girlfriend, the jury heard.

According to the chaplain, Brotherton offered to say a prayer with him but Tabak declined. He gave Tabak a handwritten prayer, shook hands with him and left.

The chaplain said he told his superior what Tabak had said and it was reported to a security officer. Later when they met again Tabak appeared "angry" at Brotherton and told him he would not tell him anything else, the court was told.

Cross-examining Brotherton, William Clegg QC, for Tabak, suggested the chaplain was wrong in claiming the defendant had said he was going to "change his plea".

Clegg suggested his client had simply said: "I'm going to plead guilty." He had already told his lawyers that he had killed Yeates, Clegg said, adding that Tabak was "a depressed and distressed man unburdening himself".

The conversation between Tabak and the chaplain took place on 8 February, three weeks after he was arrested, the jury heard.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/18/joanna-yeates-vincent-tabak-admission
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 08:08:18 PM
Tabak, a 33-year-old engineer, denies murdering 25-year-old Yeates but admits manslaughter. The prosecution alleges Tabak murdered Yeates at her flat in Bristol before dumping the body on a roadside verge three miles away.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/18/joanna-yeates-vincent-tabak-admission


Quote
Often, the original conviction stemmed from an admission of guilt. Now, new research looks into why innocent people confess.



Within the confession and subsiquent statement, there where no details regarding how this crime took place..
Quote
“Being in a police interrogation is a very powerful situation,” Guyll said. “If you wear a person down you can probably get false confessions.”

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/07-08/upfront-crimes.aspx

Quote
In 1966, false confessions seemed like a rare problem. Fifty years later, we have seen hundreds of exonerations of innocent defendants who confessed to terrible crimes after they received Miranda warnings.
Quote
The National Registry of Exonerations has collected data on 1,810 exonerations in the United States since 1989 (as of June 7, 2016). They include 227 cases of innocent men and women who confessed, 13 percent of the total, all after receiving Miranda warnings (at least according to the police). Nearly three-quarters of those false confessions were homicide cases.

http://europe.newsweek.com/why-people-confess-crimes-didnt-commit-470227?rm=eu

http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/09/12/why-people-confess-even-if-they-didnt-do-it/59450.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exonerations-2015_us_56ac0374e4b00b033aaf3da9


People DO confess to a crime they didn't commit and once you confess, there is no way out...

So a confession is a none starter...
The DNA was partial...
And the dodgy Searches that aren't evidence as they can't prove intent..

Where was the hard evidence to prove DR. Vincent Tabak committed the crime???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 21, 2016, 09:00:14 PM
As he pleaded guilty there would be no need for evidence to prove his guilt. his own admission did that
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 21, 2016, 09:30:37 PM
Yes, and more's the pity.

If he hadn't pleaded guilty, we would have had a better trial, with ALL the evidence and more witnesses!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 09:34:54 PM
As he pleaded guilty there would be no need for evidence to prove his guilt. his own admission did that


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/76

Quote
(b)in consequence of anything said or done which was likely, in the circumstances existing at the time, to render unreliable any confession which might be made by him in consequence thereof,

Without medical evaluation and representation of such at court before he made his plea....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 21, 2016, 09:45:08 PM
Something I don't understand:

VT first spoke to the chaplain on 8th February.

The public didn't hear anything about VT's "confession" until 5th May or thereabouts.

VT didn't sign his "enhanced statement" until 22nd September, shortly before the trial.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 21, 2016, 10:26:36 PM
Paul Cook, VT's lawyer, did not apply for bail when he had been expected to. That is one mystery-------!!  Shortly afterwards, he stopped acting for VT.

I wonder why.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 21, 2016, 10:52:55 PM
The Mirror might have just made a mistake.  I have read quite a few newspaper articles where they have got their facts wrong!

However, as I have said before, nobody knows exactly WHEN, WHERE, or WHY Joanna was murdered, so I don't really know how they could prove VT's guilt beyond reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 10:56:35 PM
Surely they will be a court record stating  that?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 21, 2016, 10:58:03 PM
The charge was that he murdered her between 16th and 19th December.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 11:01:04 PM
The charge was that he murdered her between 16th and 19th December.

Why from the 16th Dec??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 11:27:34 PM
The Mirror might have just made a mistake.  I have read quite a few newspaper articles where they have got their facts wrong!

However, as I have said before, nobody knows exactly WHEN, WHERE, or WHY Joanna was murdered, so I don't really know how they could prove VT's guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

No i think it might have been me...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 21, 2016, 11:40:02 PM
Something I don't understand:

VT first spoke to the chaplain on 8th February.

The public didn't hear anything about VT's "confession" until 5th May or thereabouts.

VT didn't sign his "enhanced statement" until 22nd September, shortly before the trial.

Tried searching for press or any announcements for that:

date range Jan to end of may https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vincent+tabak+confesses+to+chaplain&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=859&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A24%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F05%2F2011&tbm=

custom range Jan to August: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vincent+tabak+confesses+to+chaplain&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=859&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A24%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F08%2F2011&tbm=

 jan to Sept custom range: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vincent+tabak+confesses+to+chaplain&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=859&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A24%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A30%2F09%2F2011&tbm=

Its not until you go to Oct in the custom range that i have found anything: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vincent+tabak+confesses+to+chaplain&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=859&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A24%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F10%2F2011&tbm=

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 22, 2016, 02:17:59 AM
As he pleaded guilty there would be no need for evidence to prove his guilt. his own admission did that

Indeed and he did admit to manslaughter.  If that was not the case he could have changed his plea at any time.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 22, 2016, 10:28:56 AM
Indeed and he did admit to manslaughter.  If that was not the case he could have changed his plea at any time.

Hi john

I don't understand why they didn't give him bail???  What evidence had they held him on?

CJ was released...... and he was still on bail until March, I think it was..

So you have 2 men on bail for the same murder and one of them is on remand..
They could have taken his passport off him if they thought he was a flight risk.

I do not understand why they had Dr Vincent Tabak on Remand??

Why did he not appear in court on think it was Tuesday 1st Feb2010 for his Bail hearing???
His lawyer leaves him...
There are plenty of odd things happening,

I do not know why he changed his plea to guilty...... But he was at loss of liberty for a long time, do not know what kind of pressure he was under or his mental state...

Interogation and have adverse effects on people...

Nobody knows why he pleaded the way he did.... 

But I believe the man should have been given bail...And  been given a chance to get his defence together in a proper manner....

Why was CJ released.... Dr Vincent Tabak was not??

Dr Vincent Tabak had no previous.... they still need to gather evidence....

I wish I had seen the evidence they had at his first hearing that they used to charge him with...

As we know the crying girl story appears to be just that... A story.....

The DNA could only rule him in... but they need more to prove it came from Dr Vincent Tabak as it was partial...

The time available for him to do the crime , is not there (IMO)....

And they were originally looking for someone for the murder for the Saturday, because of the CCTV of a car going over a bridge...

The defence didn't get the tim line folder until day of trail... If they had gotten that soner, his lawyer would havee been able to see he didn't have the time..

How can you cross reference all those timelines and check that the evidence in a 1300 page document is correct..

His Lawyer may have believed he was innocent, but he too needed the time and effort to prove he was....

If the evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak was  accurate, WHY with hold the 1300 page time line..

Half of the trial the actual times do not get mentioned.... Why?
Maybe he couldn't as the timeline folder wasn't available and his defence didn't have the proper information before them to prove other wise..

And I still stand by if they say it was him, he had NO reason to move the body from one place to 3 others.... very
 risky!!

We don't know why he hasn't asked for repatriation, which I find extremely weird... What is stopping him doing at least that,..

John, do you not find it strange the range of date that he was charged between?

16th to the 26th Dec??
Quote
The charge, when it came, was all the more jarring, therefore – that between Dec 16 and Dec 26 he had murdered Joanna Yeates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8280005/Joanna-Yeates-murder-suspect-Vincent-Tabak-enjoyed-normal-family-Christmas.html


She was alive on the 16th and not on the 26th...

Also John is there anything in this case that strikes a chord regards Dr Vincent Tabak..,

Imo.. the scene was staged...

The important clues they had:  The Pizza    ( given as a treat or reward)
                                             The ski sock, ( there is a jump in skiing called the Pizza) oddly enough..
                                             The Shard of console..... which was never explained

Plus the piece of evidence that was handed in that was significant.....

I've discovered Pizza is used in grooming young people....

Also that child porn images can be pseudo...  Which I'll come back to...

There was no evidence that Dr Vincent Tabak groomed young people...

Maybe the Pizza WAS more of a clue than they first thought!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 22, 2016, 10:59:40 AM
In My Opinion...

The police need to charged someone for the crime as there was mounting pressure from the public at the time to charge someone over this horrendous crime..

CJ ... had good lawyers and friends...

Dr Vincent Tabak had nothing.....

With the evidence they had at the time, they acted on it.... rightly or wrongly, they charged Dr Vincent Tabak..
(IMO) they rushed to have someone in custody as they had let CJ go...

The British public were already baying for blood... there would have been uproar, if another suspect was released...

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 22, 2016, 12:33:02 PM
In My Opinion...

The police need to charged someone for the crime as there was mounting pressure from the public at the time to charge someone over this horrendous crime..

CJ ... had good lawyers and friends...

Dr Vincent Tabak had nothing.....

With the evidence they had at the time, they acted on it.... rightly or wrongly, they charged Dr Vincent Tabak..
(IMO) they rushed to have someone in custody as they had let CJ go...

The British public were already baying for blood... there would have been uproar, if another suspect was released...

I agree they were under pressure after going after the wrong people and subjecting one in particular, Chris Jefferies, to some awful publicity.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5788.msg205702#msg205702
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 22, 2016, 03:16:19 PM
I don't think there is anything unusual about not giving a murder suspect bail. Its the norm but thankfully not for Mr Jefferies
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on November 22, 2016, 08:59:05 PM
I don't think there is anything unusual about not giving a murder suspect bail. Its the norm but thankfully not for Mr Jefferies

With foreign nationals there is always the possibility of flight risk.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 22, 2016, 10:11:04 PM
With foreign nationals there is always the possibility of flight risk.


Agreed..... But they can always take his passport, surely  that would remedy the possibility of leaving the country.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 06:22:13 AM
im not sure why you think he deserves such special treatment compared to others arrested and charged with murder?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 09:20:26 AM
Special treatment?  I don't believe he has had any!!! 

I agree with Jixy that one person convicted of murder should not be treated any better than another, but the last few posts have only been about whether or not VT should serve his sentence in the UK or in Holland (his own country).  Most convicted prisoners in this country ARE serving their sentences in their own country, after all.


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 09:26:56 AM
Sorry, didn't read properly: bail has been discussed too, and, for all I know, it may well be usual for people charged with murder not to be given bail, particularly if they are thought to be dangerous.

What I don't understand though, is why VT's lawyer WAS going to make a bail application, and then didn't.

I also don't understand why he was held on remand in a Category A prison, when people on remand are normally held in their local prison or a category C one----after all, they may need to be held in prison if they are thought to be a danger to the public, but remand prisoners have not actually been convicted of anything.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 12:42:24 PM
I think expecting a murderer to be given bail is special treatment. lots of application can be made even when there is no real prospect.

As for being dangerous, I think a murder falls into that bracket don't you
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 12:43:44 PM
I think you need to do some more research on just how many foreign prisoners are serving sentences in this country.

over 10,000 isn't a few even if other countries have more foreign prisoners than we do!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 01:13:38 PM
Sorry, didn't read properly: bail has been discussed too, and, for all I know, it may well be usual for people charged with murder not to be given bail, particularly if they are thought to be dangerous.

What I don't understand though, is why VT's lawyer WAS going to make a bail application, and then didn't.I also don't understand why he was held on remand in a Category A prison, when people on remand are normally held in their local prison or a category C one----after all, they may need to be held in prison if they are thought to be a danger to the public, but remand prisoners have not actually been convicted of anything.





Why a prisoner maybe held on remand:

Quote
Why has my family member/partner been remanded into custody?
A prisoner may be held in custody leading up to a trial vary for a variety of reasons. The prosecution can indicate one or more of the following as reasons a person should not be released on bail:

The individual has previous convictions for similar offences.
There is reason to believe that the individual may fail to turn up at the trial.
There is reason to believe that the individual may interfere with witnesses.
There are reasonable grounds to believe an individual would commit further offences before their trial.


Where should a  remand prisoner be held????? Normally the local prison.....


Quote
Where will my family member/partner be taken if they are remanded into custody?
Most courts will send those convicted to one specific local prison. The solicitor handling the case should be able to tell you the name of the prison to which your loved one has been taken.

http://www.offendersfamilieshelpline.org/index.php/remand-into-custody/

Well he wasn't afforded that basic privelege, Tanja was his closest family at the time in the UK
What did his Lawyer do to help his client regards staying close to a relative? Was he prevented in someway with this??

This may explain why his Lawyer had such difficulties:
Quote
t is not possible once a hearing is complete and an individual has been remanded into custody or sentenced for relatives or partners to have contact with their loved one. In the time immediately after the hearing the individual who has been remanded or sentenced will be taken to the cells in the court building and from there will be transferred to a local prison. It is often the case at court that not even solicitors are allowed to visit the prisoner directly after a hearing.

So his Lawyer wouldnt have access straight away to Dr Vincent Tabak, I dont know how long after they are at a local prison the lawyer gets access??

And the difficulities facing the Lawyer when they move him TWICE again!!!



Catergories are usually determined on this bases:
Quote
What is Categorisation?
All adult male prisoners are classified on
reception into prison and put into one of
four security categories based on the
likelihood of escape and the risk to the
public if they did escape. The categories
are:

The catergories are determined as follows:
Quote
♦ Category A: prisoners who would be
highly dangerous to the public, police or
national security if they were to escape.
♦ Category B: prisoners for whom the
highest security conditions are not
necessary, but for whom escape needs
to be made very difficult.
♦ Category C: prisoners who cannot be
trusted in open conditions but who are
unlikely to make a determined escape
attempt.
♦ Category D: open conditions, prisoners
who can be trusted not to try and
escape.

http://www.prisonadvice.org.uk/system/files/public/Categorisation.pdf

The question is.... Are Remand prisoners usually catergorised?

Quote
Are remand prisoners categorized?
Unless they meet the criteria of category A,
remand prisoners are not categorized.
They are usually treated as category B.
Unconvicted women and young people will
be held in a closed prison.

This is an interesting sentence made by the above document:
Quote
How does the security category affect
the prisoner’s sentence?
The category determines where a prisoner
will serve their sentence as prisons are
usually designated as category A, B, C, or D
and they will be placed in a prison
appropriate to their category. If they
request a transfer, they can only be
transferred to a prison of the correct
category. The lower the category, the
more freedom a prisoner will be allowed.
In category D Prisons (also known as open
prisons) they may leave the premises for
work, education or town visits. Security
will be much tighter in category A prisons,
with visitors and mail subject to more
stringent checks.


So now we need to follow what happens next:

He appears at Bristol crown court on the court on Monday 24th January 2011

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/24/vincent-tabak-court-joanna-yeates-murder-charge

On the 26th January, he was transfered to a prison in Gloucester??? (That ones news to me)

Quote
THE man accused of murdering Jo Yeates was moved to a different prison
yesterday amid fears for his safety.

Vincent Tabak had spent less than 24 hours in jail in Bristol before the
30-mile switch to Gloucester.

Quote
HMP Gloucester   
Address   :   Barrack Square,
    :   Gloucester
    :   GL1 2JN  map of location
    :   England

Gloucester Prison is a catergory B: Prison,

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/330342/tabak-jail-switch-over-attack-fears/



Then 24 hours later he was moved again to Long Lartin Prison..... why??

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/332161/jo-suspect-on-suicide-watch-in-tough-jail/

He was in Long Lartin by the 27th January: 
Quote
Address:
South Littleton
Evesham
Worcestershire
WR11 8TZ


You have to make an application to have a prisoner moved, so why move him twice??? In such a short space of time!!!!
Quote
Category A prisoners are routinely moved from time to time for security reasons
For their own safety if they are being bullied
If their main visitor has a medical problem making visits impossible.
Does a prisoner have a legal right to be transferred to a different prison if they wish?


What determines the catergorization of a prisoner????

Quote
Are remand prisoners awaiting trial categorised?
Prisoners held on remand awaiting trial are not normally categorised but would generally be treated as category B. However, if the Prisoner is assessed as a category A prisoner, they will be held in this way.

Quote
Can a Prisoner on remand awaiting trial be transferred?
A prisoner on remand is not usually transferred. They are usually held in the local prison nearest the court they will appear.

What special rightss do remand prisoners have:

Quote
Remand Prisoners have the following rights:

Access to reasonable facilities to seek release on bail and to prepare for trial.
The right to preserve their home and job i.e. to make arrangements in case they should be convicted.
The right to maintain contact with family and friends.
http://www.jigsawvisitorscentre.org.uk/remand-prisoners/

Why may a prisoner be transferred?
Quote
Their security category has changed

So when did this change??? If his original remand was in a catergory B prison... why the change???
Nothing had happened within 24/48 hours...

But by moving him he suddenly doesn't appear in person for his next COURT appearance...

Can a prisoner request a transfer?

Quote
The prisoner can request a transfer via the prison request system, or on a form provided by the prison service.
It is usual for transfer requests not to be considered unless the prisoner has served a few months at their current facility.
The prisoner should expect to receive a response within 7 days of application.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/prison-law/transferring-prisons/

Dr Vincent Tabak didn't request a transfer... someone went to great lengths to transfer him Twice in 24/48 hours of his court appearance..

Dr Vincent Tabak was no more dangerous from his initaial court apperance to his last court appearance..

It has taken FOUR days from his first court appearance :

(1)...24th Jan 2011.. appears in Bristol crown court

(2)  26th Jan 2011.. moved to Gloucester Prison

(3)  27th January... moved to Long Lartin

(4) 31st January.. .. appears for preliminary hearing?? via video link WITHOUT his solicitor who is at Bristol Crown court.. ( The same day Jo,s body is released to the family) (what happened to applying for BAIL????)

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/event/vincent-tabak-preliminary-hearing-for-the-murder-of-joanna-yeates-108632844#vincent-tabaks-defence-lawyer-paul-cook-leaves-bristol-crown-court-a-picture-id108634508
{quote] But at the prelim, the prosecution only has to show probable cause that the accused committed the charged crime(s). In other words, enough evidence to justify a belief that a crime occurred and the defendant committed it.[/quote]

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-difference-between-preliminary-hearing-trial.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/31/joanna-yeates-funeral-vincent-tabak


Why a video link??

How much contact had his Lawyer had in these 4 days??


I cannot find when his Lawyer changed...
but theres NO reference for this until May 2011(have done range of dates)

He then confessed to the chaplain 8 days later:

It makes you wonder what pressures he was put under to make this apparent confession??

How much REAL time did he have with his original Lawyer?
When did COOK stop representing him???
When did CLEGG take over??

These question can give reason as to why someone may plead guilty to a crime they did not commit!!



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 01:24:10 PM
And fundimentally... I can't find where the application for bail was made?

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 01:33:33 PM
Not sure what point you are trying to make but you do highlight he was moved and there were fears for his safety. That has to be considered a good thing if he was in danger?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 01:35:35 PM
Where does it state he (VT) was Cat A ? 
Just because he was in a Cat A prison doesn't mean he was Cat himself sometimes Cat B prisoners are housed in Cat A prisons .
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 01:49:26 PM
Why was no application for bail made in the preliminary hearing??

Dr Vincent Tabak was presumably expecting this... (any prisoner would want bail)

The procesution stated at the hearing tha:

Quote
Prosecutor Nigel Lickley QC said he would serve papers on the defence by 1 April. There would then be a plea and case management hearing on 4 May. The judge said he had pencilled in a trial date for 4 October at Bristol.

Quote
The judge told Tabak that his counsel would have a chance to speak to him later today and see him this week. He said today's hearing was designed to make sure the trial process worked efficiently.
Quote
Treacy added that Tabak's next appearance would be on 4 May, by which time papers would be served that would make it possible for him to see "in detail" the case against him.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/31/body-of-joanna-yeates-released

So.... Application for bail anyone????????

So from the 31st January to the 4th of May 2011 NO APPLICATION FOR BAIL was made????

Doesn't that strike you as odd??


Surely an application would be made whether or not it was denied??
A Foreign National in a foreign prison not having an application for bail made....???

Its not even that an application for bail  was ever actually made (IMO)as far as I can see....

Surely this would have been the first course taken!!!!!!

So from the time of his arrest to WHEN he appeared changing his plea.... NO application for bail was ever made (IMO)..

I cannot see why an application was not made as the defence did not recieve the prosecution papaers at this time..
And surely in his clients best interest an application for bail should have been made..
Dr Vincent Tabak was of good character and had no previous convictions...
And wasn't a threat to National sercurity..


So why no application???
Does this not seem odd??????

yes... i've edited it: because.....

What is bail?

Quote
Bail is an important pre-trial matter. When deciding whether bail should be granted the courts will ask themselves whether the defendant, the person on trial, shall be allowed back into the public whilst awaiting trial or shall be remanded in custody until the trial date. 


http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proceedings/bail/


PRE TRAIL..... why no Bail hearing???????????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 01:59:58 PM
I think when you look at presumption with crimes like rape and murder you may understand why he didn't get bail and no one asked for or was expecting it
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 02:02:11 PM
wow do you really believe all you are writing? surely not?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 02:29:06 PM
Under s. 4 of the Bail Act 1976, on each occasion that a person is brought before a court accused of an offence, or remanded after conviction for enquiries or a report, he must be granted bail without condition, if none of the exceptions to bail apply.

Prosecutors must keep the issue of bail under review throughout the life of the case.

Conditions of bail may only be imposed where necessary to ensure that the exceptions to bail are addressed. Only where conditions are not sufficient to address the exceptions to bail should a remand in custody be sought.

Under s. 5 of the Bail Act 1976, the court or officer refusing bail or imposing conditions must give reasons for their decision.

Exclusions to the right to bail
The general right to bail does not apply in the following circumstances:

Murder

The power of magistrates to consider bail in murder cases, whether at first hearing or after a breach of an existing bail condition, is now removed by s. 115(1) of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. This does not apply to attempted murder or conspiracy to murder.

Where a person is charged with an offence of murder or attempted murder, and has previously been convicted in the UK or court of an EU Member State of an offence of murder, attempted murder, rape or a serious sexual offence (as listed in s. 25(2) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994), he shall only be granted bail where there are exceptional reasons, which justify it.

Section 114 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 amends Schedule 1 to the Bail Act 1976. Section 114(2) provides that bail may not be granted to someone charged with murder unless the court is satisfied that there is no significant risk that, if released on bail, that person would commit an offence that would be likely to cause physical or mental injury to another person. In coming to that decision, the court must have regard to the nature and seriousness of the offence, the suspect's character and antecedents and his record in relation to previous grants of bail.

Manslaughter and Serious Sexual Offences

Where a person is charged with an offence of manslaughter, rape or a serious sexual offence, and has previously been convicted in the UK or court of an EU Member State of an offence of murder, attempted murder, rape or a serious sexual offence (as listed in s. 25(2) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994), he shall only be granted bail where there are exceptional reasons, which justify it.

Note: Where a person charged with one of the offences referred to above has a previous conviction for manslaughter or culpable homicide in the UK or EU court, he shall only have his right to bail restricted where he received a sentence of imprisonment or detention upon conviction.

Class A Drug Users - Designated areas only

In certain parts of the country, Paragraphs 6A to 6C of Part I of Schedule I of the Bail Act 1976 apply which set out the exception to bail for adult drug users where their offending is drug-related, and where they have been required to undergo drug testing but have failed to comply with that requirement.

Exceptions to the right to bail
The grounds for refusing bail are set out in Schedule 1 to the Bail Act 1976.

A person may be denied bail if there are substantial grounds for believing that any of the exceptions in Schedule 1 of the Bail Act 1976 are made out. Different exceptions will apply depending on the category of offence and the flow charts at Annexes One - Six set out the approach to be taken by the court in deciding whether to withhold bail to a person charged with a particular category of offence.

Annex One: Adult Defendant: Indictable Only or Either Way Imprisonable Offence

Annex Two: Adult Defendant: Summary Imprisonable Offence

Annex Three: Adult Defendant: Non-Imprisonable Offence

Annex Four: Youth Defendant: Indictable Only or Either Way Imprisonable Offence

Annex Five: Youth Defendant: Summary Imprisonable Offence

Annex Six: Youth Defendant: Non-Imprisonable Offence

Note:

In cases involving criminal damage where the court is clear that the value involved is less than £5000, these offences are treated for the purposes of bail as if they were summary only: see Section 22 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980.
Certain exceptions to bail are subject to the "no real prospect" test where a remand should not be sought for an un-convicted defendant who has no real prospect of receiving a custodial sentence. In less serious cases prosecutors should give careful consideration to the surrounding circumstances of the offence, the defendant's antecedents and any relevant sentencing guidelines in deciding whether there is a "real prospect" of a custodial sentence. Where this is not clear cut, it may be more appropriate to leave it to the court to decide and to make objections to bail in the usual way.
It is vital that prosecutors note that this is not a consideration in cases involving domestic violence or any other risk of physical or mental injury to persons associated with the defendant.
Post-conviction applications.

Pursuant to section 4(2) of the Bail Act 1976, there is no general right to bail for convicted persons.

However where a person has been convicted and is then brought before either the magistrates' or Crown Court to be dealt with for breach of the requirements of a community order or breach of certain youth community orders (s. 4(3)); or a court adjourns a case for enquiries or a report (such as a pre-sentence report) to be made in order to assist the court in dealing with the offence (s. 4(4)), the right to bail remains. Accordingly, in these circumstances, prosecutors should make appropriate representations (including any objections) as to the grant of bail.

By inference the presumption to bail does not apply to those defendants who appear before a court post-conviction where proceedings are adjourned for any other reason, for example committal for sentence.

In this situation, prosecutors are reminded of their duty to assist the court in providing information that may be relevant to their decision.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 02:32:58 PM
wow do you really believe all you are writing? surely not?

I am a just an oldish woman no experience with court or procedings.. I have said before that  I have had doubts on this conviction and arrest from the begining, I am trying to understand what the process is to get from Arrest to Conviction....

And I'm not completely sure if due process was followed (IMO) because I don't do law....

The constant movement of Dr Vincent Tabak soon after his arrest is a cause for concern..

I believe ordinarily a prisoner request to be transferred and this can take 7 days..

Well all this happened in less than 7 days and I don't believe Dr Vincent Tabak made the request...

Do prisonerrs ordinarily get moved so soon after arriving as a remand prisoner???

Even when they are under threat from prisoners etc???

Surley these processes take time????

Example of a different Prisoner who was held on remand:
Quote
The man was remanded in to the custody of HMP Altcourse in March.
Despite a history of harming himself and substance misuse, he was assessed
as presenting no risk to himself at the point of reception. He was prescribed
medication to help with his substance withdrawal and was taken to a wing
used to manage prisoners going through detoxification. On 11 March, he
requested to be moved to the vulnerable prisoner unit as he felt threatened by
other prisoners. As there was no room in the unit at that time, he was
relocated to the care and separation unit (CSU, also called the segregation
unit by staff).
2. Suicide prevention measures were begun on 16 March when a chaplain
reported that the man told him he was thinking about harming himself.
However, he was primarily concerned about the type of sentence he might
receive and, when these fears were allayed, the measures were stopped. He
stayed in the CSU until 18 March when he was located in the vulnerable
prisoner unit (VPU).

http://www.ppo.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/004-11-Death-of-a-male-prisoner-4-4-11-Altcourse.pdf

It took time to assess this Prisoner who felt theatened by other inmates:

So..... surely there would have been measures for Dr Vincent Tabak which would take longer than 24/48 hours of him being in 2 prisons..

I don't see what assessment need to be made to class him as a vulnerable Prisoner and if the assessment where made that he was vulnerable to threats why move him so soon!!!  Doesn't make sense ..

This was indeed SPECIAL treatment that Dr Vincent Tabak recieved as ordinarily they wouldn't just move a prisoner...


How many prisoners are vulnerable???
And how many do they move..??

They can't move all of them, they haven't the space or facililities.. So why was Dr Vincent Tabak cases so SPECIAL they had to move him twice in 24/48 hours..

Had Holland intervened?? If so why where they not representing him..

There seems no real justifiable reason to move Dr Vincent Tabak over any other prisoner at this time...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 02:39:41 PM
If prisoners are charged with a crime that is sexual in nature, they must also be segregated for their own protection.

The Basic Point is This...Every human being, be they prisoner, detainee, terrorist or asylum seeker has the basic human right to be treated with dignity and respect. They have the right to food, housing, protection, education and assistance from the law. They have the right not to be exploited, tortured or intimidated. As a country we have agreed to abide by the European Convention on Human Rights, as a nation we have the Human Rights Act to protect us from those who would seek to harm us or prevent us from enjoying our civil liberties.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 02:42:19 PM
really? lol ok...

For an 'oldish' lady you seem to have a long list of what should happen yet you say that you don't know about proceedings

You don't know the goings on and as members of the public we don't have a right or need to. Its a murder case not open for us all to see every twist and turn of what happened to him, what he said or didn't say.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 02:48:13 PM
Under s. 5 of the Bail Act 1976, the court or officer refusing bail or imposing conditions must give reasons for their decision.

Exclusions to the right to bail
The general right to bail does not apply in the following circumstances:Murder

The power of magistrates to consider bail in murder cases, whether at first hearing or after a breach of an existing bail condition, is now removed by s. 115(1) of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. This does not apply to attempted murder or conspiracy to murder.

Where a person is charged with an offence of murder or attempted murder, and has previously been convicted in the UK or court of an EU Member State of an offence of murder, attempted murder, rape or a serious sexual offence (as listed in s. 25(2) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994), he shall only be granted bail where there are exceptional reasons, which justify it.


The problem is that an Application for Bail didn't even happen not whether he had a right to Bail...(IMO)

That I really do not understand!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 02:52:48 PM
He is a murderer.... its plain and simple. Why should he get bail? why is that so hard for you to accept
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 03:13:59 PM
If prisoners are charged with a crime that is sexual in nature, they must also be segregated for their own protection.

He wasn't charged with a sexually related crime...

That only came after they decided that it wasn't manslaughter and the prosecution needed to prove motive, thats when it became a Sexually Motivated case, and not before......


Joanna Yeates had not been Sexually Assaulted (FACT)

The Prosecution used Searches to establish that it had been a sexually motivated Attack.. (searches do not prove intent).....and that was after the initial charge!

The Sexual Intention was not brought up in his original charge?? that I am aware of (IMO)

So what were they protecting him from?????

He was basicallly someone who had a murder charge against him.... nothing was proven at this point...

No need for segregation as a prisoner charged with a Sexually Motivated Crime..


So why in late January when he had made 2 appearances in court was an application for bail not filed?


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 03:18:27 PM
that is a quote for all kinds of situations. Not sure why we keeping having to focus on sex offences.. You Drew our attention to this case, Not quite sure what your AIM is but you seem to think it is all one big con.

Points to consider

Apart from in cases involving Murder or Rape there is a presumption in favour of Bail under s4(1) of the Bail Act 1976

Apart from.... there is NO right to be given bail as you seem to think that he was being badly done to

But apart from a murder, a poor man was  accused previously and publicly assassinated by the press etc. Feelings were running high, as proven when he went to prison, he was in possible danger.

Remanding him into custody is the NORM anyway but also to protect him!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 03:31:33 PM
really? lol ok...

For an 'oldish' lady you seem to have a long list of what should happen yet you say that you don't know about proceedings

You don't know the goings on and as members of the public we don't have a right or need to. Its a murder case not open for us all to see every twist and turn of what happened to him, what he said or didn't say.

I'm not here to Justify my reasons for having an interest in this particular case..
As I have reiterated many times, this case bothers me..


I want to understand how Dr Vincent Tabak came to change his plea to Manslaughter, because we don't know..
Prisoners falsey admit to things that they didn't do...

Yes the public should not have willy nilly access to anything they deem they may need to investigate or prove that a persons trial is fair or not...(that is for the Lawyers)..

But to bring any case to a Lawyers attention you need to find facts or New Evidence that will change the course of events..
And looking into cases costs time and money..

Who's to say that someone isn't looking into this case and the way in which it was handled.. We don't know!

Stefan Kizkos mother.. spent years trying to prove her Son was innocent of the crime he was committed for...
She didn't have the luxury of the internet to help her in her process...
Or forums with  people asking questions regarding her sons predicament...

And as we know ... that poor man was innocent, there was No question that he was innocent..

The Police of the day were under pressure to have someone ...anyone in prison for the murder of Lesley Molseed.

They knew that he couldn't possibly be the killer...He was Sterile..
Yet he went to court and Prison for this crime..
And served 18 years I think...

So as the title of the forum suggests.. People are looking into what they think is a miscarriage of Justice,..




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
I cant see anyone asking you to justify your reasons yet you quoted me.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
wow do you really believe all you are writing? surely not?

I believe he was unfairly treated....(IMO)

I believe alot of smoke and mirrors were used... (IMO)

I believe Dr vincent Tabak did notknow if he was on his arse or elbow (IMO)

I believe The Defence should have been furnished will all relevant papers pertaining to the crime before trail (IMO)

I believe April 1st would have been  a start....(IMO)

I believe Dr Vincent Tabaks defence should have been given more than a day to counter act the 1300 page document that was presented in court on the day of trail... (IMO)

I believe if the jury understood this 1300 page document they may have come to a different conclusion(IMO)

I believe that asking the jury to add a note to a printed document saying "DEFINITION" prejudiced their view of Dr vincent Tabak..(IMO)

I believe that if the word that changes the interpretion of an action which wasn't originally there, should not be added after... (IMO)

I believe what i consider as the Confession to the Chaplain the only evidence they had he had committed a crime ...(IMO)

I beleive the original evidence brought to convict him was not used at trial ...(IMO)

I believe if DR Vincent Tabak had influencial friends and money for a Lawyer he would have been on bail..(IMO)


I believe the sexual motivation wasn't part of the original charge ..(IMO)

I believe they thought the crime had been committed on the Saturday... (IMO)

I believe that is why they arrested CJ.. (IMO)

I believe the CCTV of a car on Clifton Suspension bridge was on the Saturday and not the Friday (IMO)

I believe because it was Saturday for the CCTV.. it suddenly became grainy... (IMO)

I believe they identified the car on the CCTV and either arrested or contacted the owner....(IMO)

I believe the crying girl was a ruse... not produced in Trail... (IMO)

I believe nobody fingered DR Vincent Tabak of this crime... (IMO)

I believe there was a reason not to show the Asda Time Stamp....(IMO)

I believe that moving him several times in 24/48 hours constitues duress... (IMO)

I believe if Dr Vincent Tabak had searches such information about the difference between manslaughter and murder  charges.. he would have definetly made an appeal for bail...(IMO)

I believe if it's possible to see the 1300 page document it would show that Dr Vincent Tabak did not have enough time to commit this crime...(IMO) on Friday 17th Dec 2011

I believe as a foreign National there should have been some intervention or communication by the Dutch Authorities..(IMO)

I believe the Police were under pressure to convict someone after the CJ fiasco....(IMO)

I believe he should at least be in a dutch prison so his family can visit... (IMO)

I believe that there isn't anything wrong with questioning something you have concerns over.... (IMO)













Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
And his confession?

I believe there are very good reasons for most of what you quoted but im sure you will disagree

So his confession is wrong, the fact he cried in court and said sorry is wrong also

He would not have been given bail no matter what money he had!

Maybe he was moved for his own safety - would that be wrong to you too?

There is never anything wrong with questioning things that don't make sense. What I don't understand is that even when alternative scenarios are offered you ignore and dig deeper to prove his innocence, his ill treatment  while taking none of it on board!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 04:42:09 PM
My goodness, people have been busy on here again!!

I'm afraid it was me who originally started the thread and drew people's attention to the case.  I am unhappy about it for many of the same reasons as "Nine " is.  I am also an old-ish woman, by the way!!

I did not say that VT SHOULD have been given bail, and I understand that people accused of murder are usually not.  However, the understanding was that VT's solicitor was going to APPLY (he might not have been successful), and then he didn't.  I am wondering what (or who) changed his mind, and why he stopped representing VT shortly afterwards.

I believe some murderers are more dangerous than others:  terrorists and serial killers are more dangerous than somebody who kills his or her spouse, for example, because somebody who murders for a personal reason, eg jealousy, or because their spouse was having an affair,  is not as likely to murder again as somebody who kills randomly, or for political reasons.  That is (presumably) why some murderers are given longer tariffs than others, and why some are given whole life tariffs.

I did read that VT was moved from Bristol prison for his own safety, very shortly after being placed on remand,  but I hadn't realised he had been moved twice.  I cannot help believing that his meeting with Brotherton was deliberately engineered. 

I also did not realise that so many foreign nationals were in UK prisons----thank you to the poster (dont remember who it was) who passed on that piece of information.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 04:48:16 PM
My comments were all very important figures of speech that when read properly make total sense. Im not surprised you are similar to Nine, not at all

Firstly as for dangerous murderers. Hmmm he pointed the finger at an innocent man which in turn turned the attention on to himself

On his laptop they also found explicit videos of a blonde woman being throttled. What an unfortunate coincidence
Poor man, what are the chances

Considering how Joanna died, I would say yes he is dangerous very dangerous wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 04:50:04 PM
Conspiracy theories...please!

Maybe he did have an ounce of shame, remorse or another reason for talking in prison but a conspiracy I just don't buy it!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 05:00:56 PM
I agree with most of what Nine has said in her last post.

I don't have a great deal of faith in VT's confession, and never have, I'm afraid.  The fact that he cried in court, and apologised to JY's family is odd too:  one doesn't usually hear of defendants doing that, paricularly people on trial for murder,  and it sounds like someone who had a  mad moment, with tragic consequences, and who really regretted it afterwards.

Or, somebody who was so confused that he was no longer sure whether he had killed Joanna or not.

No doubt, some people on here will say it was all crocodile tears, and done in order to make himself look better than he actually was!!!!!!! 

We just dont know, do we, and that is why we have different views about the case. 

I have applied to write to VT in prison, and I strongly suspect that I will be told that he doesn't want to hear from me.  I do know that a couple of people tried to write to him while he was on remand (not me or Nine, by the way), and were told exactly that.   Maybe he really does not want to hear from anyone, and maybe the powers that be dont want him corresponding with anyone.  Who knows?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 05:03:40 PM
And his confession?

I believe there are very good reasons for most of what you quoted but im sure you will disagree

So his confession is wrong, the fact he cried in court and said sorry is wrong also

He would not have been given bail no matter what money he had!

Maybe he was moved for his own safety - would that be wrong to you too?

There is never anything wrong with questioning things that don't make sense. What I don't understand is that even when alternative scenarios are offered you ignore and dig deeper to prove his innocence, his ill treatment  while taking none of it on board!

His confession was just that.... Not recorded or anything.. . We don't know what was said in the confession and whether the priest was being accurate with the content...

I would like to see the 1300 page document to assertain wether it was possible in the time allotted...

I can think of other scenario's that do not include Dr Vincent Tabak that I can not say:

What reason other than Sexual did Dr Vincent Tabak have to committ this crime??

When we've discussed that the searches were not relative and didn't show intent...

when Joanna Yeates was not Sexually Assaulted...

When you already have doubt as to why the information was brought to trial, but not relevant and his Solicitor didn't recieve the 1300 page document before trail.. So he could object to the relevance of the information that was within the 1300 page document..

If he didn't know of it's exsistence before Trial had commenced how could he make an object to it???

I dig because this is a discussion forum.. we all have differences of opinion,..

Let me see the document, I'm sure that there is something in there that holds important relevant information as Dr Vincent Tabak's conviction..

And another issue is if the judge originally thought that the trail would take 4 weeks... why did it only take 2 weeks??

What evidence was not examined fully and what evidence was omitted.......



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 05:09:13 PM
aw bless him shall we have a collection and send him a postal order or send it quicker via the online service?

Just for your information most people don't strangle their neighbours implicate an innocent man and dump the body after watching videos of a woman looking very much like the victim

Have you thought that he was crying tears for himself? like what have I done? The years flashing before his eyes all due to liking/watching poor women being strangled

Yes my heart bleeds

Show some respect for the victim. He has moved prisons. has he put in any claims of being mistreated?

Years down the line what has he done to let the world know he is innocent after confessing . Both you are Nine are really really good at asking questions ignoring all the answers that don't suit how badly done to and innocent  he really is

Its like you are fighting your own battle.

As for it being a set up to allow him to confess to a murder you say he didn't do to a Chaplain when he isn't religious. How the heck would that be possible? If he was innocent why would anyone expect him to confess to anyone?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 05:13:27 PM
I don't believe VT pointed the finger at an innocent man at all, but I have said this in a previous post and given my reasons, so I won't repeat myself.

As for the  videos of women being throttled, I would like to know who has actually seen these, and whether anyone would testify under oath that they existed.  I have no doubt that VT looked at some legal porn (probably behind his girlfriend's back), but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the other stuff was concocted.

I could be wrong , of course, but then, I have never denied that I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 05:14:21 PM
Conspiracy theories...please!

Maybe he did have an ounce of shame, remorse or another reason for talking in prison but a conspiracy I just don't buy it!

A conspiracy theory is always a good word to bandy around when someone is simply asking question:

A conspiracy theory tends to have an alternative account of what has taken place..

I haven't given an alternative account of what has taken place. And neither has mrswah that I am aware of on this disscussion of the case.

I have simply looked at whats available and as Mrswah said...

I did read that VT was moved from Bristol prison for his own safety, very shortly after being placed on remand,  but I hadn't realised he had been moved twice.  I cannot help believing that his meeting with Brotherton was deliberately engineered. 

If mrswah wasn't aware he had been moved twice,and in quick succession..

And mrswah has taken an interest in this case for quite a while I bellieve...

Then what else do we not know about Dr Vincent Tabak and his treatment...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 05:17:07 PM
maybe you are forgetting yourself lol Mrswah said it was deliberately engineered and I was replying to 'her' and that comment not you or yours or was I?


So if you read it again, it wasn't me who said it but you jump in once again pointing the finger at anyone who disagrees but never at the Dr hmm
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 05:18:17 PM
Still while you are deflecting about naughty Chaplains telling tales you don't have to answer the question about the videos and the events that followed. you know, the important stuff.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 05:33:48 PM

Just for your information most people don't strangle their neighbours implicate an innocent man and dump the body after watching videos of a woman looking very much like the victim


Firstly your correct.... most people do not murder their next door neighbour that they have never meet..

Statistically moving a strangers body from the scene of a crime is not done.. this has been touched upon on earlier posts...

Moving a body 3 times is even less likely statistically i would imagine(IMO)

And the evidence that he watched the fore mentioned video was not produced as evidence in court..

Therefore there is no evidence that the information on what Dr Vincent Tabak watched is true:...

A still picture from a video is not an image... what film and what context was the picture taken from....

I posted regards the man whom was arrested about the pseudo video that was thrown out because the image was a still and the video was pseudo and when watched in context the man had done nothing illegal.

I'm sure there are many murder mystery films,TV series etc... that could show some poor lady tided up in the boot of a car....

Context is what is needed.....

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 05:47:07 PM
I think you should read the Felicity Gerry article. Im sure Mrswah has read it before as there is a comment in her name.

You will find the reasons why certain things were said in court and others weren't so it can be ruled out of the argument

http://thejusticegap.com/2011/10/vincent-tabak-and-the-law-on-bad-character/

‘Bad character’ evidence is evidence that the defendant has carried out reprehensible behaviour other than the offence charged. It is not limited to criminal convictions. Tabak had no criminal history. The judge concluded that the possession of strangulation pornography was reprehensible and later sentenced on the basis of sexually motivated murder but excluded that material from the consideration of the jury during the prosecution case.

‘A difficult balancing exercise’

It was a difficult balancing exercise for the judge but, in my view, the right one: The only issue in the trial was intent and not sexual motive. That depended on the level of force and the time it would take to kill. In the end the pornography could only support a suggestion that he liked violent sex. This would have been admissible if he had denied killing, but he didn’t. In addition, the evidence was that most viewing of pornography was after the killing so, on balance, viewing strangulation pornography after the event would be more prejudicial than probative in a trial as it could cause the jury to leap to a conclusion rather than reaching a verdict on the evidence. Tabak’s sexual conduct online and with prostitutes could also have been used to rebut his assertions that he was morally correct but he was obviously such apoor witness that, as the verdict shows, it was better to reach a safe conviction on direct expert evidence than one based on an examination of his character and leave the now proved motive to the judge when setting the sentencing tariff.

nail on the head! and no reason to say that because it wasn't used means it didn't happen!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 05:49:54 PM
haha im gonna leave you to your mad ideas. Im sure you would see good in anyone especially if there were sex offenders involved. that much is obvious

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 05:54:20 PM
 Nine why when asked questions do you never give a straight answer you go around the houses or deflect things away from them by raising more questions is it because you are making things up to suit your posts and comments Andrew or is it just simply the way you like to post and comment to make it look like you are intelligent & know what you are talking about when really you are just a crank or so it appears
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 05:55:47 PM
  In addition, the evidence was that most viewing of pornography was after the killing so, on balance, viewing strangulation pornography after the event would be more prejudicial than probative in a trial as it could cause the jury to leap to a conclusion rather than reaching a verdict on the evidence.

I have to look at your statement in pieces:

And if after the killing you say that he looked at this porn, what did he put in the search engine???

"S&M particularlly  a girl wearing a pink t shirt....

Now that may have swayed things...

It is ludicrous to imply as the media did that Dr Vincent Tabak looked at images such as this and committed the said crime....

It is also more ludicrious to suggest he happened upon an image of a girl in a pink t shirt in the boot of a car... Just after he had  committed the crime or searched for the said image......
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 05:58:49 PM
Nine why when asked questions do you never give a straight answer you go around the houses or deflect things away from them by raising more questions is it because you are making things up to suit your posts and comments Andrew or is it just simply the way you like to post and comment to make it look like you are intelligent & know what you are talking about when really you are just a crank or so it appears

Who's Andrew??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 06:00:40 PM
Felicity Gerry is rubbish too

Ignore all the facts that make him guilty and wave your banner for sex offenders

How many names have you posted under ? Are you even allowed to be doing this?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 06:09:42 PM
Felicity Gerry is rubbish too

Ignore all the facts that make him guilty and wave your banner for sex offenders

How many names have you posted under ? Are you even allowed to be doing this?

I will look further into what you have said jixy...

And I can assure you I am only posting as me alone "Nine"... is my only username on this forum..

What would be the point of me having two or more usernames...

I want other people other than myself to look and see what they think... if i wanted an arguement with myself I can find a mirror..

I don't and am not debating with myself publically....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 06:11:04 PM
 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 06:20:27 PM
@)(++(*
It's nice to see you laughing, I'm sure it was for the Who's Andrew comment....

Quote
Bad character’ evidence is evidence that the defendant has carried out reprehensible behaviour other than the offence charged. It is not limited to criminal convictions. Tabak had no criminal history. The judge concluded that the possession of strangulation pornography was reprehensible and later sentenced on the basis of sexually motivated murder but excluded that material from the consideration of the jury during the prosecution case.

http://thejusticegap.com/2011/10/vincent-tabak-and-the-law-on-bad-character/


How does that work??? 

There was no proof of sexual intent how can he be sentenced on it being a sexually motivated murder????

When also NO sexual Assault took place????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 06:29:51 PM
Who's Andrew??


Do you not remember you once offered to fix my boiler as you were claiming to be a heating engineer /plumber  at the time ,a little like you claimed to be a solicitor & now a para legal were these all courses you did while you were away ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 06:33:42 PM

Do you not remember you once offered to fix my boiler as you were claiming to be a heating engineer /plumber  at the time ,a little like you claimed to be a solicitor & now a para legal were these all courses you did while you were away ?

Maybe you are meaning to private message someone???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 06:37:24 PM
I want to know who Andrew is too!!!

Jixy, why do you think Felicity Gerry is rubbish?  I thought you would have agreed with what she says. And, yes, you are absolutely right: I did read her piece and comment on it.

I might not agree with the "official line", but I can assure you (and everyone else) that I am in no way a nutter or a crank (at least, nobody has called me one yet, and I've been around a long time, LOL).  I have thought out my reasons why I think VT MIGHT be innocent-------and I said MIGHT !!   



I am NOT disrespectful of ANY victim's family. Why should I be?

And, I certainly have no time whatsoever for anyone I KNOW to be a sex offender.



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 06:39:53 PM
What on earth is all this Andrew fixing boilers business???????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 06:41:52 PM
I don't think Jinx was saying she was rubbish but think she was being sarcastic
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 23, 2016, 06:42:58 PM
I was indeed
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 23, 2016, 06:45:52 PM
jixy sorry not jinx
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 23, 2016, 06:47:56 PM
Ah, I see !!!  Fair enough.  I am not always good at understanding sarcasm, I know that!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 06:54:01 PM
What on earth is all this Andrew fixing boilers business???????
The only plumber involved in this scenario is the plumber that CJ mentions in the Honour of Christopher Jefferies..

And I think if i remember correctly, he fixed the plumbing issue on the 16th Dec 2010..

But I don't remember him being referred to as Andrew!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 08:37:59 PM
Just another little niggle:

What use is the 6th Jan 2011 to google rubbish collection??

Quote
At Line 422 of the prosecution chart
 At 9.10 am (at work)
Tabak searched for press articles on the murder.
Then he Googled the words
‘DNA test’
‘Waste recycling’
‘rubbish collection’

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

when the police halted rubbish collection by the the 23rd Dec 2010 as i recall ... i will come back to this... something else has caught my eye whilst searching...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 08:54:52 PM
Please correct me if i am incorrect... And I make my profuse apologies in advance..

I thought Joanna Yeates body was discovered on the 25th Dec 2010..  i've looked at so much info I cannot remember the exact date, but I was sure it was The 25th Dec 2010...

Whilst looking for the bin information I stumble across this report:

Quote
Police searching for missing architect Jo Yeates discover a woman's body
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
CREATED: 14:38, 24 December 2010




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341452/Jo-Yeates-murder-Police-search-missing-architect-finds-womans-body.html#ixzz4QrnF88cp
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/quote]


Because the BBC report that on 25th Dec 2010 the body of a woman was found..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12079050

So which one is correct... And if the mail knew a day before....... how???
Maybe they released her named on the 25th Dec and found her the day previously...

I must admit I'm uber confused....
If it was the 25th Dec 2010 she was found... how can a newspaper report the day before it happened that she was found????

I'm completely bemused....

The family was preying on Christamas Eve.. she surely wasn't found....

From same BBC link
Quote
On Christmas Eve churchgoers in Bristol were praying for the safe return of Miss Yeates, who was remembered during midnight mass at Christ Church in Clifton.

I'm at a loss....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 23, 2016, 09:54:42 PM
I don't know if there is a glitch with the forum, but I have tried to edit my post twice and , it has not changed...
So I will continue on another post...

What i was trying to say regard editing my post was that on the  BBC video
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 24, 2016, 02:20:58 PM
I was looking back at BC forums, and as i said in an early post.. I thought that HW was kingdom who had testified at the trial..

Well HW is not Kingdom,... Kingdom was never called to give a witness, statement, he'd contatcted police several times and they said he might not be called... I'll quote what he says
Quote

kingdom
BC Member
kingdom's Avatar
Joined
Jan 2011
Posts
278
Likes
100
OCT
26
2011
Default Re: Did Harry Walker change his story about the screams he heard?
 - they newspaper seems to be incorporating several people's experiences in that article.

I only found out about Harry Walker's witness statement 10 days ago and have only read the details for the first time on this thread. What i experienced was during the day time - this is what i explained to the police on the 21st of December and to an Evening Post journalist a few days later.

(I'm the person in one of three flats - not Harry Walker - whose bedrooms back onto both CJ's drive - and with one having an oblique view of Tabak's door -- HW is in the same development but in the main house).

What i heard - on what i NOW believe to be saturday mid morning - probably between 10am - and 12.30 pm - was what sounded like a female voice shout out - 'Why won't someone help me!' very loudly. I only clearly caught the last two words 'help me!' - looked outside and there was no one about and assumed it was someone actually calling to someone else on Canynge Road and that i'd misheard - what i thought i'd heard).

It definitely wasn't on the friday night - i was in on the friday night and can't recall hearing anything undue - although i do recall hearing raised voices one evening of that week - which could have been an argument or could equally have revelers). I have a TV in the bedroom so it feasible that any scream might have been blocked out by the sound of that - (i seem to recall there was a turbulent episode of Eastenders on that evening).

I spoke to the DC last week who i had spoken to back in January and she said that as i hadn't been called as a witness they had probably concluded that what i heard was not relevant to the case. (Which i took to mean that the police have concrete forensic evidence that Jo was murdered on the friday night and that what i heard could not have been her on the saturday morning).

Personally i disagree. I'm not a fantasist or prone to a wild imagination and it would be a spectacular coincidence if the shout had not been Jo as at the time i thought the timbre of the voice sounded very odd.

I have contacted the police about this issue on at least 4 occasions specifying that i had heard this during the brightest part of that day -

I don't know why the defence didn't have this evidence... it was he who saisd he heard the words HELP ME.... no one else ,



But I don't know what the witness's said in trial...  if help me was refered too ??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 24, 2016, 05:50:47 PM
There's something about the crime scene i find parculiar...

Everyone believes that Joanna Yeates answered the door to a complete stranger whilst on her own, the Friday 17th Dec 2010..

I always find that odd..
Why would you answer the door to a complete stranger?

You wouldn't...
I wondered if the door had a spy hole so she could check to see who was at the door..

When i looked at the door i found some puzzling pictures:


http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/13540011/3247412.png

the above picture is inside the front room... it looks like an intercom

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/an-interior-view-of-the-living-room-of-the-flat-of-joanna-yeates-on-picture-id129063062

The red thing on the tv table in the corner looks more like a telephone:Modern telephones tend to have docking stations and a big plug to power them...

Question: why was the grey intercom box removed??
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02024/front-door_2024941i.jpg

Because it was there on the 6th January??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344610/Joanna-Yeates-snatched-killer-went-check-post.html

So we have 4 pictures that show there could possibly have been an intercom to answer, rather than directly answering the door, plus the possibility of a spy hole in the door..

I don't understand why the grey box was removed after the 6th Jan 2011..
Surley if it had evidentary value it would have been removed sooner??


And the door to her flat definetley does not have an opening on the otherside for letters, even though there's a letter box on the door...

Found a link for 11th Oct which shows the grey box missing...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/835252/inside-jo-yeates-murder-flat-the-christmas-she-never-saw/
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 24, 2016, 07:01:21 PM
There's something about the crime scene i find parculiar...

Everyone believes that Joanna Yeates answered the door to a complete stranger whilst on her own, the Friday 17th Dec 2010..

I always find that odd..
Why would you answer the door to a complete stranger?

You wouldn't...
I wondered if the door had a spy hole so she could check to see who was at the door..

When i looked at the door i found some puzzling pictures:


http://legacymedia.localworld.co.uk/275775/Article/images/13540011/3247412.png

the above picture is inside the front room... it looks like an intercom

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/an-interior-view-of-the-living-room-of-the-flat-of-joanna-yeates-on-picture-id129063062

The red thing on the tv table in the corner looks more like a telephone:Modern telephones tend to have docking stations and a big plug to power them...

Question: why was the grey intercom box removed??
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02024/front-door_2024941i.jpg

Because it was there on the 6th January??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344610/Joanna-Yeates-snatched-killer-went-check-post.html

So we have 4 pictures that show there could possibly have been an intercom to answer, rather than directly answering the door, plus the possibility of a spy hole in the door..

I don't understand why the grey box was removed after the 6th Jan 2011..
Surley if it had evidentary value it would have been removed sooner??


And the door to her flat definetley does not have an opening on the otherside for letters, even though there's a letter box on the door...

Found a link for 11th Oct which shows the grey box missing...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/835252/inside-jo-yeates-murder-flat-the-christmas-she-never-saw/
He wasn't a complete stranger, he was a neighbour who lived in a flat in the same building.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 24, 2016, 07:22:50 PM
He wasn't a complete stranger, he was a neighbour who lived in a flat in the same building.

I far as I was aware he had been away working on business in the USA .... I don't think they ever meet..
He had been away on business for weeks.

Quote
2.8. Dr Tabak had returned from Los Angeles to the United Kingdom on 11 December
2010. He returned to office at Buro Happold18 in Bath, England, on 14 December 2010.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

So after 6 days home he decides to kill the neighbour he's never meet???

It was literally his first week back at work....


I still say she wouldn't answer the door to a complete stanger in the dark, even if she suspected it might be a neighbour she hadn't meet..

What about the Pictures Alfie???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 24, 2016, 08:53:37 PM
I have another query reqards the time line...

I can only reference the Sally Ramage papers for this information:

Quote
Defence Counsel: Can you look at item where you sent message to Tanja ‘missing you’
Can you remember if you sent it before you decided to go to Asda.
Recapping- you come off the Internet at 7.37pm (our entry 47) & remain in your flat until
9.29pm (our entry 88).
How soon before that did you left your flat?

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


If the prosecution claim that Joanna Yeates had been inside Dr Vincent Tabaks Flat for an hour that would make it 8.30pm that Joanna yeates should have been inside Dr Vincent Tabak's flat..

There lies the problem.. she wasn't even at home at 8.30pm  she was on her way home and she was tlaking to her friend Rebecca Scott..

The 1300 page document is most important...

why didn't anyone see THIS timeline????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 25, 2016, 08:20:47 AM
I far as I was aware he had been away working on business in the USA .... I don't think they ever meet..
He had been away on business for weeks.
http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

So after 6 days home he decides to kill the neighbour he's never meet???

It was literally his first week back at work....


I still say she wouldn't answer the door to a complete stanger in the dark, even if she suspected it might be a neighbour she hadn't meet..

What about the Pictures Alfie???
What pictures?

Tabak was Joanna's next door neighbour.  How long had they each lived in their respective properties?  And - in the unlikely event they had never met he could have knocked on the door, smiled and announced himself as her next door neighbour - if she'd seen him by sight before then why wouldn't she welcome him into her flat?  It's what neighbours do. 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 10:20:05 AM
Morning Alfie

According to Sally Ramage, Vincent and Tanja had been lliving in their flat for a year (i believe it was just over, actually, I read somewhere that they started living together in the summer of 2010).  VT went to the States on business for 5 weeks in late 2010, returning to the UK on 14th December.  While he was away, Greg and Jo moved into their flat.  So, unless VT and JY had met before (and no evidence was produced in court to say they had), they would not have known each other at all, other than by sight.

The scene in "The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies", where CJ takes Greg round to meet Vincent, is fictional, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Angelo222 on November 25, 2016, 10:35:51 AM
What pictures?

Tabak was Joanna's next door neighbour.  How long had they each lived in their respective properties?  And - in the unlikely event they had never met he could have knocked on the door, smiled and announced himself as her next door neighbour - if she'd seen him by sight before then why wouldn't she welcome him into her flat?  It's what neighbours do.

Maybe he went to borrow a cup of sugar?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: puglove on November 25, 2016, 11:48:21 AM
Maybe he went to borrow a cup of sugar?

Wasn't he bringing Joanna's cat back?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 11:48:46 AM
What pictures?

Did you not click the links Alfie? Do they not work??

A confusion I have and so must Dr Vincent Tabak have had , was they held his Pre trail at The Old Bailey..

Quote
Miss Yeates’s parents, David and Teresa, were in Court 2 of the Old Bailey to witness Tabak – who was appearing by videolink from Long Lartin prison where he is on remand – admit to killing their 25-year-old daughter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8496027/Dutch-engineer-Vincent-Tabak-admits-I-did-kill-Jo-Yeates.html


I cannot understand why??  Only to prove they have more power than he does...

What about his family seeing him... What ever happened to the bail request..

Personally I believe, the constant moving of Dr Vincent Tabak... the difficulty his family faced getting access to him, and the seperation he felt must have put him under tremndous strain..

I genuinely do not believe he was treated fairly... (IMO) and with the other posts I have made about his early treatment, it is more than a fair assumtion he was under duress..

Maybe that is why he pleaded the way he did, maybe he thought when he got to court the evidence would actually show he was innocent of the crime that he was on trial for..

But .... unfortunateley they didn't bring 1300 pieces of evidence to trail till the day it started.. And many many witness's also..

People who could defend his character or whom had witnessed events that weekend...

Family or friend

Tanja Morson

Chris Jefferies.

Evidence showing time stamps.... ( I was in Asda's the other day and asked them about their CCTV and if it always had a timestamp... The answer was YES)

The famous CCTV of him in the centre of Bristol say it's 18th Dec 2011 so it's not the 17th when he was supposed to have got rid of her...
That'll be when he's going to get Tanja probably...

The discrepencies in the timeline at court: If his own Lawyer says Joanna got hone 8.37 or there abouts...

That quite frankly is NOT helping his client... We know that joanna Yeates was in tesco then..

But if the jury are making notes, which i'm sure they are... they would add an extra 5mins + probably to the time available to him to commit this action .....

And that's his defence saying that!!
Not to mention when his defence called him horrendous..!!

The Jury are probably thinking..... Well even his defence thinks his guilty!!

Like i've said from the begining... I like Fair....



And if this is an example of how most prisoners are treated then it's a shame on our system.....


 


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 11:58:19 AM
What pictures?

I have attached the Pictures Alfie ,so you can see for yourself....  the one with the grey cover in place is taken by the telegraph , it was on the 6th January 2011

Cover in tact 6th January 2011

I'm unsure when this picture was actually taken, but there is no mention of it being broken, the Telegraph printed it.... like i said on the 6th Jan 2011

But CJ was always good at fixing things (he had the plumber round) (Andrew) who ever he is... (wry smile)

And safety for Joanna would have been paramount....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 11:59:44 AM
I have to do each one seperate..

Intercom on the wall.....

When you look at Vincent tabak's door he has on also....

I got confused when i saw The Honour of CJ... He rings it like a door bell... thats what at first I thought it was...

But is definetly an intercom (IMO)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:01:07 PM
Another ...


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:02:26 PM
last one....

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:09:46 PM
Dr Vincent Tabak's door..

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:14:48 PM
Wasn't he bringing Joanna's cat back?

Maybe he went to borrow a cup of sugar?

It was not verified in court that the cat had got out of the house before Greg left.. I would imagine Greg making sure the cat was indoors before he left, as the weather was so bad...

He could have....But if she wasn't wanting to answer the door because she was afraid, why didn't she use the intercom and so she didn't have any..

alternatively, he had sugar... or he didn't take sugar


`I like mine with no sugar and no cow juice....

But these senario's could apply to anyone trying to gain access.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 12:17:30 PM
The idea that VT was bringing Joanna's cat back is speculation:  it is merely one of the possible explanations  put forward for why he might have gone round there.

The missing timestamp from the ASDA CCTV is very worrying, as far as I am concerned-------and it is hardly likely to have been  VT who removed it!

Who did, and why?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:31:37 PM
The idea that VT was bringing Joanna's cat back is speculation:  it is merely one of the possible explanations  put forward for why he might have gone round there.

The missing timestamp from the ASDA CCTV is very worrying, as far as I am concerned-------and it is hardly likely to have been  VT who removed it!

Who did, and why?

It is very worrying..... I thought when I went and asked them at Asda they might have thought i was casing the joint... My husband and daughter were like............. No..... your not gonna ask...lol

The Tesco video had a timestamp... I cannot imagine Asda being behind their competitors....

But there is also the timestamp from the CCTV image of when he's driving through Bristol... like I said, it has 18th Dec 2010 on it,.... Again... where is that time stamp


Time and Time lines are paramount to this case... that is where the truth lies....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 12:44:57 PM
I know alot of forum members think my style of writing, might not be to their taste..
And some may think that, I do not answer direct questions..

But all i'm trying to do, is... support any questions, I have with quotes and links.. ( i was told that how you did it on a forum)..

And I could say that sometimes when I've posted people ,don't comment on what maybe I have found that doesn't make sense..



If you take the plea away... what have you really got left??? Nothing!!
So all we are really disagreeing with is did he plead guilty because he was.... Or was he under duress to do so??

That is what I've tried to show.. it happens People plead guilty to a crime they haven't committed..

I have no connection to anyone in this case what so ever...
And I cannot help if I feel deeply concerned about this case....

I gain nothing by publically saying Dr Vincent tabak is innocent...
And have been ridiculed before, when I have said so...

And i'm certainly not here to gain attention...
We all have an interest in someones unfair treatment.....

I can only apologise for my style of writing, but I will not apologise for what I believe is wrong....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 01:12:41 PM
I'd like to add another query i have:

The dates the Police have for Joanna Yeates death was between...

16th Dec 2010 and the 26th Dec 2010....

We know she arrived home on the 17th Dec 2010..

And originally her mother thought she had been abducted...

But it keeps popping into my head....
What phone did Joanna Yeates have?

Was it a smartphone?
Did it run apps?
Did it do facebook?
Did it do Twitter?
Did she listen to music on it?
Did it get Alerts?
Did she text frequently?
Did she ring frequently?
Did she charge it regulary?
Did she play games on it?
Did people text her?
Did people ring her?
How many texts and phone calls were missed on 17th Dec 2010? (and that whole weekend)

All this usage drains battery life......

And what was the battery life like??? 

That's the question that is interesting, alot of smartphone then and now, battery life is shocking...

That's why it surprised me that after all weekend from possibly Friday morning, the phone hadn't been charged?

Would it still be working on the Sunday 19th Dec 2010 ? at 9.00pm when her boyfriend rang it?

Just a puzzling question, that's all... (not saying that it didn't ring then... just that it may have been charged after the friday...)


And the prosecution never asked Dr Vincent tabak if he had charged Joanna Yeates phone!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 02:37:19 PM
Another reason I do not think that the defence helped their client is Park Street:

Quote
5.3. The judge and the jury retraced the route that Joanna Yeates took that evening of 17
December 2010: up Park Street and past the Bristol Ram public house, where she had met
work colleagues and had had a few drinks with them.

The jury was more than aware that Joanna Yeates had been on Park Street.. that would stick in their minds.
So why does the defence keep referring to Park Street?


Quote
Defence Counsel: We can see the journey to collect her. We can see you turn right at
Park Street into a lane that does not lead anywhere. Two minutes later- you came out.
Why did you go there?

Quote
Tabak: I was not paying attention to where I was going- so I took a wrong turning and
then to Park Street.

Quote
Defence Counsel: We can see the video of you going out of Park Street. Then you made a
call to Tanja. That was to ask her directions as to where to collect her?

Quote
5.3. The judge and the jury retraced the route that Joanna Yeates took that evening of 17
December 2010: up Park Street and past the Bristol Ram public house, where she had met
work colleagues and had had a few drinks with them.

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Now Park Street is important to the Prosecution, I wonder why the defence keeps it in the jury's mind...

Did the prosecution bring up the possibility that Dr Vincent Tabak new she had been on Park Street??

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 03:07:23 PM
Sorry to be at it again, but how can the judge include the So called images on his laptop if it was never proven that the images were there and they were not brought into evidence???

http://www.lawpages.co.uk/court-cases/vincent-tabak-7570-1.law
Quote
Following the verdict the jury heard how he had viewed violent pornography on the web.The judge agreed with the defence counsel that disclosure of his internet use following his victim's death was not proof that the crime was premeditated. Videos and pictures found on his laptop and work computer depicting a man holding a woman's neck during sex and images of woman tied up in the boot of vehicles

I thought A MURDER CHARGE was supposed to be PREMEDITATED??? ( i don't know) searches don't show intent!

( The Judge is even saying it wasn't PREMEDITATED) ??

So... Manslaughter it is then...

On my reckoning  10 years for Manslaughter, do half  5 years for good behaviour..

Dr Vincent Tabak should be out now !!

I have touched on what stills are..

Which picture were on his laptop and which pictures were on his work computer?

Who had access to Dr Vincent Tabak's work computer..

Why say Vehicles... the media only ever showed one photo, which happened to be a girl in a pink t-shirt.

(Did everyone forget.... she was inside a bicycle bag and not in the boot without... now if the image was of a girl in the boot of a car in a bicycle bag, it may have thrown up other questions...(IMO)

The image was used to imply to the public that he had an image of a girl in a pink T-shirt to get the general public's sympathy... (its her parents who need sympathy.. not manufactured evidence)

How can he tell the jury he had viewed porn?/
I could understand the judge making a comment if Dr Vincent Tabak had previously been convicted of a crime, and that was relevant to the case before him...

But how can he say something that was never proven or brought as evidence...

Now I don't know law but surely you can't say something that hasn't been substanciated.... Or brought in as evidence...

Quote
The Judge said " I think there was a sexual element to this killing......in my view you are dangerous. In my opinion you are thoroughly deceitful and dishonest and manipulative

 ( was this said when he directed the jury or when he was passing sentence?? Big difference..)

Wow... when was it proven that it was sexually motivated attack as Joanna yeates had not been sexually assaulted..

again, if internet searches cannot prove intent and the pornography was not introduced into evidence... Joanna Yeates was not Sexually Assaulted.....

How can it be a Sexually Motivated Attack??????

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Kayden Paradox on November 25, 2016, 04:21:40 PM
If as you keep saying VT had been unfairly treated and was innocent etc and I don't believe for one minute that he was. Then can you explain why his gf's father who is a lawyer, didn't notice a stitch up,help find alternative legal counsel or even start shouting from the rooftops etc? I know I would want to help my daughters partner, then again could it be that his gf's family had realised and I know you find it difficult to believe..GUILTY as hell!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 04:32:46 PM
It makes me wonder what exactly what was going through his mind at the time of the offence. The disturbance of clothing dna location etc

He chose to google the definition of sexual assault. Now why would that be? Strange considering it was ruled as a sexually motivated offence but you say it wasn't.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 04:44:51 PM
Murder isn't only murder when its premeditated. That can be a mitigating factor when it comes to sentencing.

10 years out in 5 does a life really mean so little to you?

Aggravating features to me. 2 for starters?

pointing the finger at an innocent man

dumping the body
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 04:47:25 PM
It makes me wonder what exactly what was going through his mind at the time of the offence. The disturbance of clothing dna location etc

He chose to google the definition of sexual assault. Now why would that be? Strange considering it was ruled as a sexually motivated offence but you say it wasn't.

"Sexual Conduct" was what he apparently googled,..

Quote
At this point the jury on Wednesday morning 19 October 2011, were invited to write into
their copy of the prosecution chart where they see the words typed in by Tabak
‘definition’ before the words ‘sexual conduct’. The jury were invited to write the word
‘definition’, so that this entry is more accurate, the prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley said,
because these words were missed out when the prosecution constructed the chart of
evidence.
And the prosecution asked for the jury to add the word "definition"..

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf


Keyden i will come back to your question, on my ipad .. not as easy to use as my comp..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 04:52:57 PM
I know what he googled but once again you change it and play it down!


Vincent Tabak did online research on sexual offences after killing Joanna Yeates, Bristol crown court heard on Wednesday.

Among the phrases Tabak Googled were "sexual offence explained" and "definition of sexual assault", the jury was told.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 04:57:49 PM
And the reason he pleaded guilty, is not the reason you suggest but one of helping himself. He had time to think, knew the net was closing in and opted and hoped for a manslaughter charge. As you say get sentenced to 10 years do 5. Far better for him than life in prison!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 05:14:35 PM
I know what he googled but once again you change it and play it down!


Vincent Tabak did online research on sexual offences after killing Joanna Yeates, Bristol crown court heard on Wednesday.

Among the phrases Tabak Googled were "sexual offence explained" and "definition of sexual assault", the jury was told.

Well you appear to have more information than I have to hand Jixy... because i cannot find that on the document that I have used . Please quote it and link it... thank you

I may have more information to look at once you do...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 05:30:24 PM
 it was you who posted it originally im sure or Mrswah. your posts are so similar I cant be sure

for your reference. Here is the link

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/19/vincent-tabak-joanna-yeates-death

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 05:40:34 PM
Murder isn't only murder when its premeditated. That can be a mitigating factor when it comes to sentencing.

10 years out in 5 does a life really mean so little to you?

Aggravating features to me. 2 for starters?

pointing the finger at an innocent man

dumping the body

 I wasn't trying to make a mockery or devalue anybody's life... Life is precious...


But the point of this thread is about what happened to Dr Vincent Tabak....

Tell what you think the aggravating feature are jixy?

And who said he pointed the finger at anyone.. where is the phone recording of Dr Vincent Tabak trying to implicate anyone else in this Crime.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 05:49:42 PM
I never mentioned a telephone call but why did he blame stress for implicating Mr Jefferies if once again he didn't do it?

No telephone call,

Questioned at Bristol Crown Court about why he made that statement to police, Tabak told jurors: “I shouldn’t have said that about Chris Jefferies.”

Asked why he implicated his and Miss Yeates’s landlord, Tabak replied: “Probably just to deflect attention away from me.”
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 25, 2016, 05:53:34 PM
Morning Alfie

According to Sally Ramage, Vincent and Tanja had been lliving in their flat for a year (i believe it was just over, actually, I read somewhere that they started living together in the summer of 2010).  VT went to the States on business for 5 weeks in late 2010, returning to the UK on 14th December.  While he was away, Greg and Jo moved into their flat.  So, unless VT and JY had met before (and no evidence was produced in court to say they had), they would not have known each other at all, other than by sight.

The scene in "The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies", where CJ takes Greg round to meet Vincent, is fictional, as far as I know.

"(Joanna Yeates)  and Reardon moved in at the start of October 2010 and he (Tabak) left for a business trip in California on 6 November, only returning on 11 December, six days before the killing"

Ample time for their paths to cross at least once or twice and establish that they were close neighbours.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 08:12:48 PM
Jixy, Nine and I might have similar views on the possible innocence of VT, but our writing styles are not similar at all, as far as I can see!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 08:29:27 PM
Alfie

According to the Independent and the Evening Standard, Jo and Greg moved into their flat on 25th October.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 08:46:47 PM
Oh, and I believe one can get a life sentence for manslaughter-----it might not happen very often, but according to the sentencing council, it can happen.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 10:05:40 PM
I have just read a report that agrees with what Alfie has said. They did move into the flat at the beginning of October.

Back to similar postings. You do post very similar and both ignore major points that confirm his guilt
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 10:14:43 PM
We might ignore points that "point" to his guilt. That is because we are not sure he is guilty.

Others ignore points that point to his innocence (or possible innocence), because they don't believe he is innocent.

Fair enough---everyone  on a discussion forum should respect each other's views.

We may have similar views, just as people who think he's guilty have similar views!

I dont think we have the same style of writing, though---and that is because we really are two different people !

Actually, the "guilty " lobby have an easier time of it: people like Nine and I are in a very definite minority, there are only about 10 of us in the country who think like us!!!!

And, no, I am not asking anybody to feel sorry for us.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 10:17:31 PM
By the way, Jixy and Alfie, where did you get the info about Jo and Greg moving in at the beginning of October?  Of course, I am willing to consider it if it is true!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 10:18:59 PM
I have not read one point that says he is innocent. In fact all the stuff I have read including his own explantions not to mention his confession just prove his guilt.
So what do you make of his own words explaining why he tried to frame an innocent man?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 25, 2016, 10:31:03 PM
I feel sorry for Joanna. another point he raised is that he waved to her and she waved back so the issue about opening the door to a complete stranger isn't valid either
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 10:50:38 PM
I don't believe him, Jixy.

I certainly believe VT is guilty of one thing, and that is lying in court (which, you may argue, is a crime in itself). I don't believe he was trying to implicate CJ. I think he (and his girlfriend) were merely trying to help the police by offering extra information (which the police had invited all the neighbours to do).

Tanja was part of this too----some accounts actually say she telephoned the police, rather than VT.  What do you make of that? Surely, you dont think she was guilty of anything? 

CJ has never said (as far as I know) that his car wasn't moved. Even if it was, it does not implicate him. He might have turned it round to make it easier for him to drive out the next day, or perhaps somebody (innocently) borrowed his car.  We don't know. He wasn't called as a witness, so we never heard.

It could be argued that CJ himself "implicated" people by saying that he thought he saw two people with someone who might have been Joanna. After all, if VT committed the crime, CJ could not have seen her with two people, could he?

There are too many "dont knows" in this case, which is why I have doubts.  And, of course, you might be right, and I might be wrong. 

Have a good look around all the old forums, etc.  Nine and I are not the only two people in the world who have these doubts!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 25, 2016, 11:01:20 PM
I feel sorry for Joanna too, and I don't believe she ever encountered VT that night.  I think his "confession" was a lie, and he said in court what he had been told to say.

I think poor Joanna was murdered by somebody else-----and I could not name names even if I wanted to, as I haven't a clue who it might have been, when it happened, or why it happened.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 11:27:18 PM
I feel sorry for Joanna. another point he raised is that he waved to her and she waved back so the issue about opening the door to a complete stranger isn't valid either

Waved...  not beckoned..... different meanings...

I wave all the time to people.... doesn't mean i want them in my house..!!!!!


If i remember correctly Mrs Yeates commented on the fact that Dr Vincent Tabak said he waved and did not show as he was demonstrating that Joanna beckoned him.... he was demonstrating a wave ...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 25, 2016, 11:30:11 PM
I feel sorry for Joanna too, and I don't believe she ever encountered VT that night.  I think his "confession" was a lie, and he said in court what he had been told to say.

I think poor Joanna was murdered by somebody else-----and I could not name names even if I wanted to, as I haven't a clue who it might have been, when it happened, or why it happened.

I completely agree mrswah....

I do not think that Dr Vincent Tabak encountered her either....

Somebody definetley did.... but who is the question...

There is no point having someone serve time in prison for a crime they didn't commit, just to satisfy the public's idea of Justice....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 12:01:29 AM
Smoke an mirror's ......

If you use enough of them to confuse people who are happy to agree with what the media say, then you have created enough doubt or proof for the public to agree it must have been him....

The funny and not in a humrous way is... when people say that Cj was vilified by the media...
Well...

Doesn't the same apply to Dr Vincent Tabak??? They just thought they could do this after they thought it was safe to do so....

After they put him in prison!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 06:20:33 AM
OMG you two really have  a sick fascination with murder don't you?

Firstly smoke and mirrors? Hmmm so anyone quotes a word from the court case and its smoke and mirrors and we are believing the media yet you two can both make up quotes scenarios thoughts and feelings that don't even appear anywhere but inside your head, and that isn't smoke and mirrors? really?

Chris Jefferies was INNOCENT. Vincent Tabak is NOT! He admitted it. His DNA was on her body yet you say he never saw her that night? wow how does that happen

I say they waved to each other. You say no one beckoned. Im sorry but who and where does it imply anyone did that? smoke and mirrors to distract from your argument that she opened the door to a total stranger and wouldn't do so!

As Alfie has already pointed out, they were neighbours who at the very least were aware of each other and 'waving' proved it. But oh no he lied about that too

So lets think about it. He lied about going to the flat, waving, thinking she wanted a kiss but didn't so he panicked and strangled her then dumping her body. He lied about Chris and his activities but when he explained he was stressed and wanted the heat off of himself that too was lies. Oh and when he said sorry for putting Joanna's family through a week of hell, that too was a lie

He came up with that in the hope of being convicted of manslaughter, getting a lighter sentence. Not because he was being tortured pressured or drugged or any other mad scenario you two have dreamt up with nothing, not one thing to back it up! Its all in your head

There is no reason to do any of the above other than to save your own skin, which he tried and failed

Nothing you have posted helps prove anything but guilt. Your smoke and mirrors routine/double act is quite boring and by replying with what we know to be truth is just giving a platform to carry on the charade

His DNA on her body? now that is one thing he couldn't possible make up.

Not for one minute can you compare the treatment of Tabak to an innocent landlord dragged into it by someone with an ulterior motive!

Poor Joanna Poor Mr Jefferies.... Vincent Tabak got exactly what he deserved!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 26, 2016, 08:41:22 AM
Absolutely spot on Jixy! 8@??)(
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 10:18:01 AM
I certainly do NOT have a "sick fascination with murder", Jixy.

If you do not want to give Nine and I a "platform" as you put it, why are you still bothering to reply to us? There are lots of other threads on this site: we have even "met" on one or two of them.

I get it:  you believe the official version.  Fair enough.  I don't.  Also fair enough.  I respect your views, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

To say that someone has a sick fascination with murder is rude. 

I am not rude to you.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 10:21:43 AM
Defending his every move wanting to write to him? denying what is so obvious to everyone else including Tabak hence his confession. That's not sick and its not an obsession?

I actually value life and don't think anyone has a right to murder someone then dump their body

You obviously don't. Happy writing to a murderer. why would you want to. That IS sick!

The reason I replied to your horrendous comments is in the name of an innocent girl murdered for no real reason

You still haven't answered any questions in full but once again deflect back to posters.

Given all that has been stated why is he innocent again? come on real answers please....if you can? start with the DNA...go on lets!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 11:03:42 AM
I've replied in the fullest possible way when, when i have made comments, I have never made it personal about anyone on this forum, that is not how I behave,

I obviously disagree with your view jixy, and if you actually read what Ive written   I quite often have answered your  questions..

I'm not here to be abused, but that in itself won't stop how I see things..... or posting..

I am not unaware that an Innocent girl lost her life... And to suppose that is naive of you...

And I'm not here to have an online arguement....

Ive simply tried to show that Dr Vincent Tabak is innocent in my opinion... as i have said before we obviously disagree... And you are not prepared to even believe that Innocent people do and have pleaded guilty to crimes that they have not committed...

Youve suddenly started shouting jixy,  you obviously feel passionate about it too....

Because most people seem to have forgotten about poor Joanna yeates, because when you mention it, there reply is virtually always....

Oh, you mean the one where the Landlord got arrested... CJ is who they remember, not an Innocent girl that was murdered....





Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 11:09:04 AM
Jixy

Believe it or not, I don't think anyone has a right to murder someone and dump their body either.

Many people DO write to people in prison in order to try to find out the truth----I was on a thread the other day where someone was putting questions to a prisoner. Can't remember whether or not you were also on it; perhaps not.

I object to being called "sick".   Nor do I write "horrendous comments".   Nor am I rude to you, but you are now being rude to me.

As to your wanting to talk about DNA," enhanced" DNA, which is what they had in the Tabak case, is not as foolproof as you might think.  Go onto You Tube, and listen to Professor Dan Crane. 

He knows what he is talking about , even if I dont.!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 11:11:43 AM
My apologies:  it is Dan Krane !
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Kayden Paradox on November 26, 2016, 11:21:19 AM
So how do you explain why VT's gf's father who is a lawyer and most probably in a better place than you and I to see any wrong doings by the authorities and yet he obviously didn't see any impropriety in how VT was dealt with? In fact at the end of the trial he was extremely grateful that his daughter hadn't become another victim .
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
We dont actually know what he thinks: we only know what was reported in the papers!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 12:26:50 PM
once again no answers that back up your view. No surprise there any more than when one of your appears the other soon follows saying exactly the same.

im not shouting, I was following your lead of using capital letters when you are getting your point acroos. Neither have I been rude. I state things as they appear, looked at both sides etc something that you seem not to do

Naïve? far from it but then I don't post with a hidden agenda or with 'wrongs' on my own mind that clearly can be an issue and cloud the views of others

Lets pretend because we seem to like doing this...

So he is mistreated by a bad man or woman who forces him to confess? so he goes into detail offering information that he didn't need to along with explanations for his actions (to save himself) even goes to the point of explaining why he did what he did to Mr Jefferies and saying sorry to the parents.

That goes way beyond what he would need to if a confession was beaten or drugged out of him. Isnt it kind of him to leave his DNA on Joanna then make himself fit the movements of the real killer without having any knowledge of Joanna or the crime.

You carrying on cancelling out all the evidence his confession his internet searches, go ahead. He is guilty and can stay in prison dealing with that fact. Thankfully justice has been done and you wont be able to change that will silly ramblings
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 12:29:35 PM
Kayden, the Father was able to do that as a sensible level headed man, who looked at the case and all the facts and realised what kind of man he is

Pleased that his Daughter was safe he had no further job to do!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Kayden Paradox on November 26, 2016, 01:35:54 PM
  Now if you were a lawyer and could see your daughters bf being set up, as you seem to think and god knows why. You would be shouting from the highest hill, getting alternative legal counsel, in fact you would be doing just about everything possible to show this. So why don't we see any of this...easy answer, there is no miscarriage of justice. Well only in the eyes of you two. By the way, it just goes to show how you both are still just picking and choosing from the media/internet etc just so it fits into your own scenario.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 26, 2016, 03:48:20 PM
I certainly do NOT have a "sick fascination with murder", Jixy.

If you do not want to give Nine and I a "platform" as you put it, why are you still bothering to reply to us? There are lots of other threads on this site: we have even "met" on one or two of them.

I get it:  you believe the official version.  Fair enough.  I don't.  Also fair enough.  I respect your views, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

To say that someone has a sick fascination with murder is rude. 

I am not rude to you.

I agree with this insinuation is being rude regards Mrswah.

 There are many reasons why people want to communicate with convicted murderers, one of them being a sick fascination, others reasons are: they are related to the person, and in denial,some because they believe a mis carriage of justice has  taken place. On a personal level, I would not ever conduct a communication with such people.

I accept without exception that the right person for the crime of murder is in the correct place.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 26, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
Tabak's fan club should write to him and see if he writes back protesting his innocence.  I doubt he will somehow and I doubt that even if he wrote back and said "actually I did do it" that it would make any difference to these ladies ( I assume you're ladies?)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 04:07:05 PM
Thanks Alfie a voice of reason once again. My posts weren't meant to be rude but I have to say I am truly offended by the words in defence of a man clearly guilty and not just by his own admission

Maybe I have my own personal reasons too and watching them blunder on is very disrespectful for many reasons
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Eleanor on November 26, 2016, 04:13:46 PM
Jeezuz H Christ, I really cannot cope with long posts. They do my head in, so I tend to skip them.  Yer, yer, but i do remain entirely capable of spotting an insult or Libel in these diatribes.  Keep it short, could you?  There is always another reply to be had.

The Media coverage was utterly disgraceful.  I can't think of anything better to say.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 26, 2016, 04:14:26 PM
Thanks Alfie a voice of reason once again. My posts weren't meant to be rude but I have to say I am truly offended by the words in defence of a man clearly guilty and not just by his own admission

Maybe I have my own personal reasons too and watching them blunder on is very disrespectful for many reasons

You could place them on ignore if it is affecting you this badly.
They are entitled to their opinion, one whch I disagree with. You are taking offence which is not directed at you ie inventing it. Why not give us your many reasons they are being disrespectful to you.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 04:20:41 PM
Oh trust me I could give many reasons. I wouldn't be alone either. Some things just aren't worth the effort and the powers that be will deal with as they have previously. Thank you
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Eleanor on November 26, 2016, 04:45:04 PM
Tabak's fan club should write to him and see if he writes back protesting his innocence.  I doubt he will somehow and I doubt that even if he wrote back and said "actually I did do it" that it would make any difference to these ladies ( I assume you're ladies?)

What?  Ladies?   Yer, well, probably better that I don't comment any further.  It's a hard old life being a Moderator.  One is restricted  somewhat, which might well have been the purpose.  But I ever was a sucker for a complement.

There is no doubt in my mind that they eventually got the right person.  I am only grossly offended by what The Media did to totally innocent  people.  Yet gain.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 04:48:04 PM
Oh trust me I could give many reasons. I wouldn't be alone either. Some things just aren't worth the effort and the powers that be will deal with as they have previously. Thank you

Jixy your post sounds quite threatening, is the powers that be something official?

You've already told me in a private message that people are watching what ive  posted and are very interested in it..

I assumed it was because you were of a similar opinion to me but, clearly I was mistaken.....

So I  am allowed to have an opinion as long as I don't express it... is that what it is... because I really dont understand...

and I will look further into what you have said trust me im on it and so are lots of other people

I asked you how i was supposed to take this... I understood it to me that you were looking at what had happened to Dr Vincent Tabak, but clearly i was mistaken....

There are many unanswered questions regarding this case, but you obviously are trying to keep me quiet.....

I wonder why that would be??


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 04:50:40 PM
haha trying to keep you quiet? you second guess me and assume all that I am when you have no idea. Keeping me quiet now that is a great idea

oh PS... show and tell makes for interesting reading  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Like i said i find things about this case not quite as straight forward as they first appear...

The police originally went to holland to talk to Dr Vincent Tabak as a witness..


When you put that idea together it sounds unlikely... Maybe that is what they told him, but for what ever reason they treated him as a suspect from the minute they arrived in Holland..

Why didn't they have their little chat with him at his mothers home?

That's what you would think would happen if he was a witness to an event,.. He wasn't implicating his landlord nessisarily, by saying he'sd seen the car move position.. I believe it was just an obsevation..

But I never could understand why they had him at a hotel and interviewed him for 6 hours..

Again seperated him from his family and the 6 hour coisidently is the time that police in holland question someone who isn't under arrest or being charged for something..

The hotel was nice... the couldn't very well take him to a police station (he was supposed to be a witness)and the would have to follow Dutch protocol with regards questioning a suspect..

So they obviously treated him as a susspect from the outset, the question is why??

They had no DNA at this time and no warrant to get his laptop.. so why was he suddenly a suspect in their eyes?/

Ive never known the police to knock on peoples doors looking for witness's carry a DNA kit with them ,just on the off chance.

Quote
Police may stop and question any suspect whom they believe to be involved in a violation of law. Temporary detention is limited to 6 hours before the suspect is either released or arrested.

https://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/europe/netherlands.html
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 26, 2016, 05:12:22 PM
Oh trust me I could give many reasons. I wouldn't be alone either. Some things just aren't worth the effort and the powers that be will deal with as they have previously. Thank you

I will treat this post with contempt. You have accused posters that they are being disrespectful to you,then refuse to explain this. Also threatening posters that people are watching them because they do not share your opinion,is rather uncouth imo.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 05:33:31 PM
Im sure further info on this wouldn't be welcome by Nine. I stand by my comments regarding this post and the guilt of Tabak. Nothing has changed
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 05:40:39 PM
And I really don't know what you are talking about...jixy

I don't know who you are and you don't know me either...

I am at a loss...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 05:41:56 PM
 8((()*/
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 07:50:51 PM
Jixy, you have every right to believe that VT is guilty, and I have never condemned you for that.
If I have offended you, as a result of things that have happened to you, then I am really, really sorry. You obviously have reasons for your attacks on people who believe VT to be innocent, I only wish we could know what they were, so that we could all have respect for each other.

I bear you no personal malice, whatsoever.  On the contrary, I wish we could all have a civilised debate, even if we have different views.

I will repeat again, Nine and I have no connection with each other, and we do not know each other at all.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 08:01:31 PM
He is guilty and my reasons have been made very clear on that. We have had a debate. Point have been put to you  and you don't accept them even when they are directly from Tabak and confirm his guilt

There really isn't any more to discuss on this. Im sure there is no need to carry on stating points for his innocence that contradict all we know and all he says himself

Defending a guilty murderer will never sit comfortable with me and for that I make no apology whatsoever
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 08:06:19 PM
In that case, i assume you will no longer be contributing to this thread.

I have done all I possibly can to have an amicable relationship with you.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 26, 2016, 08:09:09 PM
Please dont assume anything. If a new point is put forward I may just reply but i doubt that will be the case as getting a straight direct answer always seems to be such a struggle
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Eleanor on November 26, 2016, 09:53:52 PM

Right , Okay. Is anyone saying that this man is innocent?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 26, 2016, 09:55:06 PM
I think he possibly is----but I have always said that I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Eleanor on November 26, 2016, 10:16:17 PM
I think he possibly is----but I have always said that I could be wrong.

Really?  Bloomin hell.  Right.  Who else could it be?

Oh, and just by the by, what was he doing driving across that bridge at precisely the right time.

I will always fight for anyone if  I think there is half a chance, but you are going to have to go some on this occasion.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 26, 2016, 10:23:29 PM
hi Eleanor..

I don't believe there is any footage of him going across the bridge..

I think who ever went across the bridge did so on the Saturday..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 07:34:44 AM
The reports I have read talk about two men in a car going over the Clifton suspension bridge-----on the Saturday.

I also read that they could not make a positive identification of the car's occupants or the registration number, as the footage was "too grainy"

VT picked up his girlfriend from the coach at about 1.30 on the Saturday morning, as she had been to a party. Assuming she knew nothing about the murder, he must have driven across the bridge between midnight and 1.30.

Don't think anything was mentioned at the trial about the car on the bridge:  it was assumed that VT (alone) went to ASDA with Jo's body in the boot of his car, then disposed of the body before collecting Tanja.

I would like to know what made the police think they had seen the right car on the CCTV, AND the right occupants, if the footage was too grainy to have been of any use.  And, who was the other man?  It was assumed at the trial that VT had committed the crime alone.

No comments, Eleanor, about who else could have done it.  Don't do libel, and anyway, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 08:19:56 AM
Ms Reddrop said Tabak had also used the internet to conduct "in-depth research" on the case in a bid to "keep one step ahead of the investigation".

In the days following the murder Tabak read news articles on her disappearance and searched Google Maps for information on Longwood Lane, where he had left her body.

Why did he do this? how did he know what street to search?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 10:05:54 AM
Right , Okay. Is anyone saying that this man is innocent?

I believe he's innocent Eleanor....




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 10:24:12 AM
I also am not prepared to get into debates with people who are abusive...

I think once you start being abusive to someone because you may not agree with what they say, you have lost your arguement.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
There were suggestions made (don't remember by whom) that VT and Tanja were due to go to a party in the Longwood Lane area in the week following the murder, and that is why he used Google maps for that area, as it was not an area he knew.

Why would he google Longwood Lane after the murder if he had already dumped the body there?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 12:51:15 PM
There were suggestions made (don't remember by whom) that VT and Tanja were due to go to a party in the Longwood Lane area in the week following the murder, and that is why he used Google maps for that area, as it was not an area he knew.

Why would he google Longwood Lane after the murder if he had already dumped the body there?
Tabak just happened to be invited to a party in the very same road that his next door neighbour's body would be discovered?  What are the chances of that happening, eh?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 12:57:33 PM
Taken from another site, here are a list of searched Tabak made on his computer before anyone even knew that Joanna was missing:

(1)Definition of Sexual assault
(2)How many silver Renault meganes in UK
(3)he looked up details of household waste collection in Bristol.
(4)What are the differences between Manslaughter and Murder in the UK
(5)"How does forensic identification work?"
(6)"body decomposition time"
(7) an article about a man who strangled his wife and pleaded diminished responsibility.
(8) the location of CCTV cameras in Canynge Road,
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 01:06:39 PM
very good points Alfie and Nine you don't get into a debate with clear answers with anyone who disagrees with you whatsoever so that is fine.

You take my comments and say they are abusive but then you would whatever I write

Alfie isn't abusive and made further comments. I await the discussion
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 01:08:20 PM
Maybe he was checking out the possibility of the body being found. AS we know there was an attempt to lift the body over the wall, where most likely it may have never been found

8 points of searching all connected to the murder dna and a confession. wow
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 01:13:03 PM
Taken from another site, here are a list of searched Tabak made on his computer before anyone even knew that Joanna was missing:

(1)Definition of Sexual assault
(2)How many silver Renault meganes in UK
(3)he looked up details of household waste collection in Bristol.
(4)What are the differences between Manslaughter and Murder in the UK
(5)"How does forensic identification work?"
(6)"body decomposition time"
(7) an article about a man who strangled his wife and pleaded diminished responsibility.
(8) the location of CCTV cameras in Canynge Road,

Hi Alfie i have touched upon these  topics

(1) The word "Definition" was actually added by the prosecution whilst in the court room.. he asked the jury to add the word because it was missing.... I cannot see how you can add a word which changes the context of a possible sentence.

(2) That was apparently done on the dutch wiki.. and when you search % of meganes in Uk it doesn't have an answer .. .. I believe that would be a pointless exersise.

(3) He looked in january for what reason I do not know.. but I believe they had already stopped collect of household waste by 23rd Dec..... he could have been follow the case just like I did at the time.

(4) Again I cannot answer that.... the search could be in relation to anything he was viewing.. he hadn't admitted to anything at this point... I wish his lawyer had counter acted alot of these searches but he  didn't..

(5) Could be looking at that for a varying reason, not related to his neighbour.

(6) I might have been interested in that if it had included thawing... when anything is frozen, decomposition time is irrelevent.

(7) People click on articles on the web when looking at news.. I do it all the time.

(8) That would be handy to know... but all he really needed to do was take a walk outside of his own neighbourhood to locate them if need be,..


Alfie can I ask you something...?

When the police went to Holland to talk to Dr Vincent Tabak... Did they go to speak to him as a witness or a suspect??


May i also add.. That Joanna Yeates was not sexually assaulted, so why would he need to check the definition?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
Joanna Yeates's killer tearfully apologised today for putting her family through hell.

Vincent Tabak said his actions were "horrendous" as he showed jurors with his own hand how he strangled his next-door neighbour

Tabak, who was shown pictures of Miss Yeates's injuries, wept as he said he would be haunted for the rest of his life

He denied touching her and the DNA was a result of moving her body but who knows what he actually did or what was going through he mind especially as he had googled the difference between murder and manslaughter (with the sentence in mind) and also the definition of sexual assault. Makes sense to say he didn't rather than turn the crime into a sexual one by his own admission
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 02:17:37 PM
Alfie

I would have expected that the police checked out whether or not VT and TM did go to a party in the Longwood Lane area. 

What the answer is, I dont know.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 02:35:24 PM
Hi Alfie i have touched upon these  topics

(1) The word "Definition" was actually added by the prosecution whilst in the court room.. he asked the jury to add the word because it was missing.... I cannot see how you can add a word which changes the context of a possible sentence.

(2) That was apparently done on the dutch wiki.. and when you search % of meganes in Uk it doesn't have an answer .. .. I believe that would be a pointless exersise.

(3) He looked in january for what reason I do not know.. but I believe they had already stopped collect of household waste by 23rd Dec..... he could have been follow the case just like I did at the time.

(4) Again I cannot answer that.... the search could be in relation to anything he was viewing.. he hadn't admitted to anything at this point... I wish his lawyer had counter acted alot of these searches but he  didn't..

(5) Could be looking at that for a varying reason, not related to his neighbour.

(6) I might have been interested in that if it had included thawing... when anything is frozen, decomposition time is irrelevent.

(7) People click on articles on the web when looking at news.. I do it all the time.

(8) That would be handy to know... but all he really needed to do was take a walk outside of his own neighbourhood to locate them if need be,..


Alfie can I ask you something...?

When the police went to Holland to talk to Dr Vincent Tabak... Did they go to speak to him as a witness or a suspect??


May i also add.. That Joanna Yeates was not sexually assaulted, so why would he need to check the definition?

You seem to be making excuses for each of his internet searches but not looking at the picture they cumulatively paint, searches done by a man sat at his computer in the time between Joanna's death and her body being found.   I don't know the answer to your question but I don't see the relevance to the internet searches. There may have been no signs of sexual assault on Joanna's body but that does not rule out the reason for her murder being sexually motivated, eg: rebuffed advances leading to rage and violence, then murder.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 02:37:45 PM
Alfie

I would have expected that the police checked out whether or not VT and TM did go to a party in the Longwood Lane area. 

What the answer is, I dont know.
Then it's just speculation and if there was no party then what other reason could he have had for googling Longwood Lane?   There is a wealth of evidence against this man, and zero evidence that anyone else was involved, so why you are so keen to defend a convicted murderer is quite baffling to me.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 02:43:15 PM
and baffling to me too hence the frustration in my posts
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 27, 2016, 02:49:23 PM
Why when points of interest are raised that challenges your opinions that you never answer them clearly or openly Nine & Mrswah is it that you don't know but just like to cause discussions or spout your beliefs and that you are always right & everyone else is wrong ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 03:12:20 PM
Paul

I simply said that I would assume that the police would have checked whether or not VT and TM did go to a party in the Longwood Lane area, and that I didn't know what was the result of this check.

I said I didn't know.

I have never said I am always right.

In fact, I have said, on several occasions that I might be wrong.

Nine and I both have doubts about VT's guilt, but we are two different people and we write different posts.   
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 03:13:27 PM
not forgetting supporting real miscarriage of justice cases and seeing how they along with their families struggle to try and clear their name, the length of time it takes and the pure battle to find new evidence or a new argument to progress. Often followed by set back after set back...

Tabak isn't claiming to be innocent and its obvious he isn't, it just makes for painful reading
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 27, 2016, 03:25:16 PM
Paul

I simply said that I would assume that the police would have checked whether or not VT and TM did go to a party in the Longwood Lane area, and that I didn't know what was the result of this check.

I said I didn't know.

I have never said I am always right.

In fact, I have said, on several occasions that I might be wrong.

Nine and I both have doubts about VT's guilt, but we are two different people and we write different posts.   

Where did I say you & Nine are the same person I don't think I did & who is to say that they never checked if they were both at the party or were they in that area for some other reason ?

Why is it only you 2 on the who forum who are trying to say he is innocent when all the points raised point to him being guilty that is all , i'm not having a go , being rude or aggressive i'm just curious why you want to defend a murder ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 04:08:35 PM
Paul

Yes, Nine and I are in a minority:  and a very small one .   I only know of around 10 people in the country who have doubts about VT's guilt.  I am neither proud nor ashamed of being part of this minority:  it is just the way it is.

Also, this thread is hardly likely to have been started by someone who believes VT is guilty, is it?

If you read the very first post on this thread, you will find out why I have doubts about VT's guilt, and if you can answer any of my questions, I would be very happy to hear from you.  Nobody yet has been able to explain why fire engines and a crane were needed to retrieve Joanna's body, for example, and only one or two people have attempted to explain why none of VT's DNA or fingerprints were found in Joanna's flat (after all, he said this is where he killed her), or why none of Joanna's DNA was found in VT's flat (he said he took the body there).

I am also suspicious that VT was arrested just before a review of the case was due, and police from another force would have been drafted in to help. (reported in the Daily Mail, 13th January 2011).

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 04:10:59 PM
Jixy, if it makes for painful reading, then why are you bothering to read it?

There are dozens of threads on this site, after all.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 04:20:16 PM
I am free to do what I want. I didn't ask you to comment on how painful it is for me. I see the pain of families day in day out and hope one day you will see sense. Don't you worry about me, maybe think about the victim and the family who have lost a loved one. Im doing just fine thank you and my thoughts and prayers will stay with them, the people who need and deserve them
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 27, 2016, 04:28:14 PM
Paul

Yes, Nine and I are in a minority:  and a very small one .   I only know of around 10 people in the country who have doubts about VT's guilt.  I am neither proud nor ashamed of being part of this minority:  it is just the way it is.

Also, this thread is hardly likely to have been started by someone who believes VT is guilty, is it?

If you read the very first post on this thread, you will find out why I have doubts about VT's guilt, and if you can answer any of my questions, I would be very happy to hear from you.  Nobody yet has been able to explain why fire engines and a crane were needed to retrieve Joanna's body, for example, and only one or two people have attempted to explain why none of VT's DNA or fingerprints were found in Joanna's flat (after all, he said this is where he killed her), or why none of Joanna's DNA was found in VT's flat (he said he took the body there).

I am also suspicious that VT was arrested just before a review of the case was due, and police from another force would have been drafted in to help. (reported in the Daily Mail, 13th January 2011).

 How did her dna ended up on his trousers and her chest ,  everything points to him  and is backed up with dna and a confession what more proof is need ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 04:32:27 PM
Paul

Yes, Nine and I are in a minority:  and a very small one .   I only know of around 10 people in the country who have doubts about VT's guilt.  I am neither proud nor ashamed of being part of this minority:  it is just the way it is.

Also, this thread is hardly likely to have been started by someone who believes VT is guilty, is it?

If you read the very first post on this thread, you will find out why I have doubts about VT's guilt, and if you can answer any of my questions, I would be very happy to hear from you.  Nobody yet has been able to explain why fire engines and a crane were needed to retrieve Joanna's body, for example, and only one or two people have attempted to explain why none of VT's DNA or fingerprints were found in Joanna's flat (after all, he said this is where he killed her), or why none of Joanna's DNA was found in VT's flat (he said he took the body there).

I am also suspicious that VT was arrested just before a review of the case was due, and police from another force would have been drafted in to help. (reported in the Daily Mail, 13th January 2011).
Why would "fire engines and a crane" make it less likely that Tabak did it?  Totally irrelevant to your arguement IMO.  As for the DNA or lack of it, one could speculate that it's because he cleaned up, wiped surfaces down etc.  I don't know.  But conversely how, if they had never met do you explain his DNA on her body?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: PaultheRed on November 27, 2016, 04:33:06 PM
As it was a December night could it be he wore gloves hence why no finger prints ?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 04:34:25 PM
This forum is called miscarriages of Justice..

I was just saying that I believe that they arrested and convicted the wrong man (IMO)..

There are many strange things about the case..

And the reason i'm on this forum is to see, whether anyone else has questioned the way it unfolded..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 04:36:45 PM
I would have thought that finding his DNA/fingerprints in her flat would be very important evidence.

Enhanced (or low copy) DNA can be unreliable.  I am not a scientist, and do not understand these things . However, Professor Dan Krane talks about it on You Tube, and there are several newspaper articles about it.

Lots of people have confessed to crimes falsely.  I would have had more faith in VT's confession had he made it at the police station, when he was first arrested,  rather than after having been on remand for several months. We don't know how he was treated in Long Lartin, after all.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
Why would "fire engines and a crane" make it less likely that Tabak did it?  Totally irrelevant to your arguement IMO.  As for the DNA or lack of it, one could speculate that it's because he cleaned up, wiped surfaces down etc.  I don't know.  But conversely how, if they had never met do you explain his DNA on her body?

I believe that it was a partial DNA... it wasn't definatley Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA..

When did he have the time to clean all the surfaces down?

Why wasn't any evidence of him found on the ear-rings that one was found in the bed and one on the floor?

The strangulation marks did not show signs of gloves as far as I am aware..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 27, 2016, 04:43:30 PM
Paul

I thought about gloves too, but they said they found finger marks on Joanna's neck.

Alfie

Of course the presence of fire engines and a crane make no difference to who committed the murder, but my point is that they would not have been needed if the body was left where the police said it was left. It leaves me wondering whether we have been told the truth about where the body was actually found, that was my point.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 04:45:28 PM
AS Alfie previously posted, 8 points searched on the internet LINKED to the death of Joanna along with DNA a confession, a statement saying how he will be haunted for life due to his own actions that night but the most telling part about it.... in all the years that have passed, where is his appeal? his claim he has been wronged in anyway not to mention forced into a confession, to explain the night and associated feelings that went along with it

I know more than one case where a prisoners was seriously abused far beyond anything you can dream up happened to Tabak yet they never once gave up maintaining their innocent. He hasn't even started
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on November 27, 2016, 04:46:44 PM
So how did Joanna's blood get on the top of the wall? he said he tried and failed to lift it up so surely you aren't saying that is another lie?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 04:59:18 PM
Alfie, can I ask what you think to the document, that wasn't presented to the defense counsel, until the day of , Trail..

A document that was some 1300 pages long, and containing some 556 events, these pertained to all movements, texts, phone calls, searches ... etc..

The defence did not have the available time to cross reference what was contained in the folder, so could not counter what the prosecution were claiming..

Why did the prosecution not furnish the defence in ample time so that they could properly look at this evidence..



Maybe more acurate answers would have been given to these questions put before his clinent..

Also I believe, it would clearly show how much time Dr Vincent Tabak had to do anything that evening and what he was precicely doing at specific times..

I believe if the defence had the time to study the documents, then I'm sure he would of advised his client to change his plea..


I think alot of the disagreements would change , if people were aware of this..


This Document contained what...

Joanna Yeates did

Dr Vincent Tabak did

Greg Reardon did

Tanja morson did

Anyone else who text /rang

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 05:24:46 PM
Quote
She then texted Peter: “Where are you?”
Peter replied “On my way to a wedding. Where are you?”
She replied: “At home- on my todd”.
She texted a third male friend.

I believe if the prosecution said what time she replied to Peter's text.. we would have a more accurate picture of what time she was at home.

She had left Tesco's at 8.40pm and have a 5 minute walk home.. meet the priest.
I believe the time the text was sent from home is vital..

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 06:05:42 PM
Paul

I thought about gloves too, but they said they found finger marks on Joanna's neck.

Alfie

Of course the presence of fire engines and a crane make no difference to who committed the murder, but my point is that they would not have been needed if the body was left where the police said it was left. It leaves me wondering whether we have been told the truth about where the body was actually found, that was my point.
A cover up and conspiracy by the police you mean?  To what end?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Alfie on November 27, 2016, 06:08:55 PM
Alfie, can I ask what you think to the document, that wasn't presented to the defense counsel, until the day of , Trail..

A document that was some 1300 pages long, and containing some 556 events, these pertained to all movements, texts, phone calls, searches ... etc..

The defence did not have the available time to cross reference what was contained in the folder, so could not counter what the prosecution were claiming..

Why did the prosecution not furnish the defence in ample time so that they could properly look at this evidence..



Maybe more acurate answers would have been given to these questions put before his clinent..

Also I believe, it would clearly show how much time Dr Vincent Tabak had to do anything that evening and what he was precicely doing at specific times..

I believe if the defence had the time to study the documents, then I'm sure he would of advised his client to change his plea..


I think alot of the disagreements would change , if people were aware of this..


This Document contained what...

Joanna Yeates did

Dr Vincent Tabak did

Greg Reardon did

Tanja morson did

Anyone else who text /rang
What document are you referring to?  Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 27, 2016, 06:37:50 PM
What document are you referring to?  Do you have a link?

Here's the link and a couple of quotes referring to the Document and what happened or didn't... Alfie especially read 3.5 and 3.2

Quote
3.2. The jury was sworn on 7 October, 2011. The trial was postponed for a day because
Vincent Tabak's defence team, led by William Clegg, QC, pleaded o he judge for extra
time to read an additional 1,300 pages of documentary evidence which the prosecution had
disclosed to them at the last minute.

The quotes are on page 10

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

Quote
3.5. When prosecution counsel Nigel Lickley opened the case, he produced copies of an
A3- bound document which consisted of colour-coded pages of the timeline of the alleged
murder: every incident from emails, mobile texts, landline telephone calls, travel,
shopping, etc of the parties involved, ieJoanna Yeates and her cohabitee; and Vincent
Tabak and his cohabitee. Importantly, these schedules also include alleged internet
searches by Dr Tabak. This A3 document looked dauntingly complex and one wonders if
all members of the jury followed this document; were on the right page at the right time as
narrated by prosecuting counsel Mr Lickley.


I would love to see the document... but its only referenced here by Sally Ramage Lawyer
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 28, 2016, 08:25:55 AM
How difficult is it to move a dead weight?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 28, 2016, 02:32:13 PM
 in evidence.... The court was happy to accept that Dr Vincent Tabak had strangled Joanna Yeates with one hand and that this took 20 seconds..

20 seconds seems awful short, but...
Quote
Marks on the 25-year-old’s body were said to be consistent with her being pinned down and strangled with both hands by her 6ft 4in neighbour Vincent Tabak. Tabak admits the manslaughter of Miss Yeates but denies her murder.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047800/Vincent-Tabak-trial-Joanna-Yeates-suffered-43-injuries-slow-painful-death.html#ixzz4RJShOPUV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




and here it says: 
Quote
The pathologist added there were ‘injuries to all four quadrants of the neck, front and back, left and right’, which he said indicated the position of the killer’s hands changed during the ‘dynamic’ attack.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049094/Vincent-Tabak-trial-Joanna-Yeates-blood-stained-body-photos-shown-court.html#ixzz4RJS25acq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Changed how???

Four quadrants of her neck suggest two hands were used to strangle Joanna Yeates... Not one..

Either it was two hands and she tried to defend herself,(or one defending herself) hopefully inflicting some damage on the suspect...

Or we are expected to believe that one hand was used that change position..

Dr Vincent Tabak says he used his other hand to keep her quiet, so how were all four quadrants of her neck injured??

If all 4 quadrants were affected how would you explain that .. sounds like 2 hands not one..

If one hand wasn't kept in one postion, were there finger marks front and back from the killer?
To move one hand , you would go round the neck, switching hands, doesn't seem likely.

I'm sure Joanna Yeates  have fought back somehow? maybe kicking scratching , grabbing assailants hair.. Does she not grab hold ,pulling the assailants hand/hands from around her neck?

The position of hands changed... thats plural..

And to keep changing position suggests longer than 20 seconds.... or grabbing her more than once

The time of the attack seems alot longer than has been suggested ......







Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 28, 2016, 08:12:36 PM
This document is about all the fire engines, etc sent out to recover Joanna's body.

The document is the result of a Freedom of Information request (not asked for by myself, but by a friend, who does not post on this site).

It tells us nothing about who may or may not have committed the murder, but I think it tells us a lot about where Joanna's body may or may not have been found.

If any poster has a good explanation as to why all these fire engines and pumping tenders might have been needed, please let us know!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 28, 2016, 08:16:00 PM
If the attachment doesn't work, please say so---I have never claimed to be any good at IT!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 28, 2016, 08:50:38 PM
This document is about all the fire engines, etc sent out to recover Joanna's body.

The document is the result of a Freedom of Information request (not asked for by myself, but by a friend, who does not post on this site).

It tells us nothing about who may or may not have committed the murder, but I think it tells us a lot about where Joanna's body may or may not have been found.

If any poster has a good explanation as to why all these fire engines and pumping tenders might have been needed, please let us know!!

 thanks for the pdf mrswah, I'll do one question at a time, so my posts not too long...

At the bottom of the pdf I think it's page 5

How did they know that the person was strangled, when a post mortem had not taken place?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 28, 2016, 09:44:52 PM
hi mrswah...

Why did it take so long for them to deploy the fire services?

Quote
Incident category: Special Service
Number of appliances deployed:
Attendance
8
Victims involved: Yes
Type of property: Outdoor > Grassland, woodland and crops > Roadside
vegetation
Attack on firefighters: No
Special Service Incident Type: Recovery of body
Evacuation involved: Yes
Late call: No
Date/time closed: 29 December 2010 13:55:15
Date/time of stopped message: 25 December 2010 16:23:22
25 December 2010 13:01:46
Timings
Time of call:
Incident type at call: Assist other agency
Origin of call: Other
Call
'Over the border' incident: No
Incident status: Published
FRS Incident Number: 019064-25122010
Recording station: Bedminster Fire Station
I

That's 4 hours after she was discovered??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 29, 2016, 12:21:29 AM
As to how they knew she was strangled, I think the incident report must have been written up later, as it mentions 29th December.

Why they were not called until 4 hours after the body was found, I have not a clue----------.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 09:26:52 AM
Really odd, they say verge and then ditch??
Quote
A white tent was erected over the ditch where the discovery was made earlier today.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341520/Missing-architect-Jo-Yeates-Police-womans-body.html#ixzz4RO6mXMKH
 | DailyMail on Facebook

Thats closer to the entrance of the quarry....

Quote
Police have also brought in assistance from the fire brigade, believed to be helping aid the recovery of the body.

Where the tents erected, there isn't a wall???


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 07:48:08 PM
As to how they knew she was strangled, I think the incident report must have been written up later, as it mentions 29th December.

Why they were not called until 4 hours after the body was found, I have not a clue----------.

Some were there till 9.44pm?
Quote
Deployed from Home Station: Avon > Avonmouth Fire Station
Pumping - Water tender
Time mobile:     25 December 2010 21:17:57
Time at scene:   25 December 2010 21:31:14
Time available:  25 December 2010 21:44:03
Demounted resource:No
Number of crew:4

Why would they need to be that late mrswah?

Thats page 2
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 29, 2016, 07:57:47 PM
Don't know!!

I assume they were looking for evidence. 


I am confused by the boat-----they must have been dealing with a pond/water.  However, this was never reported, as far as I know.  Why not, I wonder--------. 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 08:15:41 PM
Don't know!!

I assume they were looking for evidence. 


I am confused by the boat-----they must have been dealing with a pond/water.  However, this was never reported, as far as I know.  Why not, I wonder--------.

It's very weird.....

Quote
Lifting & Hydraulic - Lifting & animal harnesses, straps 2
stretcher 1
Equipment

When I first looked at this I thought they might have used animal harnesses, but i think they must mean straps...
But every time I look i'm not sure....

I suppose it depends how you read it....

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 08:28:00 PM
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article85122.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/jo-yeates-image-3-423243833.jpg
Quote below is from Greg:
Quote
She was really looking forward to Christmas. We had put up a tree and she was due to bake some mince pies.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340586/Boyfriend-missing-architect-Jo-Yeates-sobs-I-want-Christmas.html#ixzz4RQoFvYn7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So were is the christmas tree in the photos, when the jury visited the flat????

I was under the impression the flat looked like it did when Jo disappeared... but it looks incredibly tidy, and the tree is missing...

What else should be there???

Infact I don't remember the christmas tree being mentioned in court.......

Did Dr Vincent Tabak mention the tree???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 29, 2016, 09:28:38 PM
when the jury visited the flat, I heard that it was as it had been, except that Greg had moved his things out.

Dont know whether or not they had a tree.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 09:50:57 PM
when the jury visited the flat, I heard that it was as it had been, except that Greg had moved his things out.

Dont know whether or not they had a tree.

Well he said in that interview they had a christmas tree.... on the link i had with the quote above your post....

I also thought that and greg had bicycles and a Sking equipment,...

If she was keen on motorbikes did she have one in bristol or was that just at her parents home???

They were both really sporty...
But the flat is lacking sports equipment.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 29, 2016, 10:28:43 PM
The bicycle bag that Joanna Yeates was supposed to have been transported in, is something of an enigma..

What type of bag was it??

Because Tanja Morson was never called to trail we do not really know whether or not Dr Vincent Tabak even owned a bicycle bag...

A few questions here about it.....

(1) Wouldn't have there been transfer from the bicycle bag to joanna Yeates?? (fibres etc)

(2) What type was it? Did it have handles and how strong would they be... bicycle bags tend to carry lightweight aluminum frames? making lifting it with someone inside really problamatic..

(3) what type of Bicycle did dr Vincent Tabak ride?

(4) Would he actually own a bicycle bag?? I say this because unless he took it with him flying and travelling all the time , there's no point owning one.. Flying you have extra weight control and charges??

(5) Was it waterproof??



I say about it being waterproof because I can't see how joanna yeates blood ended up in the boot of the car....
she had a bleed from the nose, but... he apparently had her in his house for 1 hour, so how could any blood get into his car, I would have thought the nose bleed would have stopped by then????

Even if it wasn't waterproof , you would need to loose alot of blood in an hour after the event for it to stain the boot of the car....(or leave anything, no matter how small)?? Blood hadn't been left in Dr Vincent flat..
So how did it get into the car??
If the bicycle bag had blood seeping, with him being so devious as he has been called , you would have thought he'd have put plastic down to stop transfer.

Just a thought


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 30, 2016, 12:18:31 AM
Yep. I have made this point on several occasions:  we needed to know from Tanja whether or not she or Vincent owned a bicycle bag, and whether one was missing after the weekend of 17th-19th December.

I believe Vincent owned a mountain bike. One was removed for analysis when he was arrested, but we were not told whether or not anything significant was found on it.

The idea that Joanna was transported in either a suitcase or a bicycle bag is supposed to account for the fact that there was very little forensic evidence in the car:  just that tiny blood spot. I assume Vincent must have volunteered this as part of his story, or else it was suggested to him: will have to look up what he said at the trial.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 30, 2016, 02:11:13 AM
I'm not sure you get bicycle bag's for mountain bikes...

The frame would be too cumbersome and the wheels are quite heavy...
The only ones i've seen are for mountain bikes that fold..

Did Dr Vincent Tabak's mountain bike fold?????

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on November 30, 2016, 10:00:38 AM
One further post  from me, outlining some comments made by Sally Ramage, a lawyer, and editor of a legal journal, who was present at the trial.

www.philpapers.org/archive/RAMTMT-4.pdf

This is the long version, and a lot of it repeats itself:  I guess that Ms Ramage wrote several articles after the trial to be published in various journals, and they have all got lumped together. Don't actually know, however, as I do not know her.

However, being a lawyer, and having been at the trial, (as an observer) I would guess she knows far more about the case than I do.  Incidentally, she does not say that VT is innocent.

Here are some quotes taken from her account. They have influenced me in my opinions about the case.


"The majority of the prosecution evidence, apart from the post-mortem, was circumstantial, and the only real evidence was the post mortem result and the oral evidence out of the mouth of the defendant hiself, who seemed in an automated state and psychiatrically distressed state, in the author's opinion, totally ignored by his defence barrister, William Clegg, QC, by the judge, Justice Field, while the prosecuting counsel, Nigel Lickley, QC rudely and crudely, verbally and psychologically badgered the defendant for hours and hours in the witness box."



""Ensuring Dr Tabak on a Sex Offender's Register after the murder trial was a way of stopping any appeal or retrial of his case."



"Perhaps Vincent did use the terms "fraud" and "forgery" very coherently if he felt that the police had taken his innocent hard drives, which he evidently did not seek to hide (which is very significant, surely), found some data relating to innocent searches he had made and then added fabricated evidence on to it (pertaining to the weekend of Jo's murder) to make it look as if all his searches on the computer were suspicious."


Wont quote any more, as I know people don't like long posts.  Anyone interested can read the account for themselves, should they wish to.

I find it interesting that a lawyer can consider the possibility of police falsifying computer evidence.


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 30, 2016, 10:44:36 AM
I've been looking at that paper mrswah....

I find the searches most revealing.....

Quote
At Line 267 of the prosecution chart
at 15.00 pm on 21 December 2010, Tabak searched the words
‘Extradition of Dutchman’
‘Jo Yeates’

I wonder if that was all he searched , it implys that by just having those two searches, I cant see him just doing two searches...

If he was so worried about being caught, you think he'd have spent alot more time doing these searches, It doesn't say whether the searches yielded results???

I've just done a search for "Extradition Dutchman" for the relevant time and the results were:
Quote
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=extradition+dutchman&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A22%2F12%2F2010&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max:22%2F12%2F2010&q=extradition+dutchman+

The only dutchman I could find at the time, going around the houses was........

Quote
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=extradition+dutchman&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A22%2F12%2F2010&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max:22%2F12%2F2010&q=Joran+van+der+Sloot
Quote
The Process To Extradite Joran Van Der Sloot From Peru Has Begun!
http://perezhilton.com/tag/joran_van_der_sloot/#.WD6sd6KLRQN

Was this whom Dr Vincent Tabak was looking for??

So did he go around the houses to find out about this Dutchman, or did he just do 2 searches, they obviously didn't have everything that Dr Vincent Tabak searched for or accessed on that day...

He was an avid weather watcher, it was something he looked at everyday:
Quote
Tabak: I always access the Internet for weather reports even whilst in Los Angeles. I had
my computers set up for that.

That is not there, on that day his weather search.... But it is the day after..

Plenty of people in the country were searching about Joanna Yeates, and as she was his next door neighbour I imagine he was doing the same..

Again if the defence had been furnished with the 1300 page document in ample time, they too would have found these searches not applicable..

All the prosecution needed to do was "Imply" that Dr Vincent Tabak was looking at extradition of a Dutchman, which I have said before, he could have easily stayed in Holland when he went to visit his family, if he had committed this crime..

Why search 2 days after she was missing, the relivance of the "extradition of Dutchman "... doesn't make sense..

If he had stayed in Holland when he was there in late December they would either have had the trial there, or insisted that he was returned after trial , to serve his sentence back in Holland...

The prosecution, allowed people to make a descision, based on cherry picking searches, which we have touched upon before, they do not prove intent....

Maybe he had been searching  or reading about this dutchman whilst he was in America?
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/18/natalees-mom-to-van-der-sloot-i-cant-close-the-book/

This had been an ongoing case.....

But.. the prosecution didn't show all of his searches....!!!

The Defence should have looked into this..??



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 30, 2016, 12:21:33 PM
The Car........  I was looking for the bike bag and found this site where they talk about the case:
http://palinstravels.co.uk/static-51-6?topic=14056&forum=9

And I hadn't really thought of it before, but now it springs to mind....

Quote
He then went to get his car, placed the body in the boot of his car, went to Asda, a trip he
formerly planned, and drove aimlessly around whilst deciding what to do.
From the Sally Ramage pages:

Now the prosecution made much of Dr Vincent  Tabak taking his time driving around Bristol looking for somewhere to dump Jo...

The car that Dr Vincent Tabak drove that evening, actually belonged to his girlfriend,I don't know how much he drove it...

I say this because I do not think Dr Vincent Tabak drove a great deal, i believe he rode his bike because it was easier for him, and he could nip across roads to get to the station for work...

His defence was lack luster  at best....

Why didn't he draw the Jurys attention that Dr Vincent Tabak was Dutch and as a Dutch man he was used to driving on the opposite side of the rode to what we do in England....

This would explain why he got lost on PARK STREET!

Not that he was going down there for a purpose.,, he probably drove without being totally aware of where he was going..

Bristol's part one way system would make this even more difficult for someone who naturally drove on the opposite side of the road...

I think that he would have struggled to negotiate the roads with a car opposed to a bicycle where he could have just crossed at any point...

Again... how would he be able to find Longwood Road if his command of driving in the UK might have been poor at best...

He did ring Tanja for instructions of where to pick her up..(how long was this call... did he ring more than once?)

Quote
Defence Counsel: We can see the journey to collect her. We can see you turn right at
Park Street into a lane that does not lead anywhere. Two minutes later- you came out.
Why did you go there?
Tabak: I was not paying attention to where I was going- so I took a wrong turning and
then to Park Street.
Defence Counsel: We can see the video of you going out of Park Street. Then you made a
call to Tanja. That was to ask her directions as to where to collect her?

Maybe he just wasn't able to follow the road system.... And not that he was looking for somewhere to dump a body!!

Maybe if Tanja had appeared as a witness, all these questions would have been cleared up(IMO)



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 30, 2016, 02:28:08 PM
The Trip from Adsa:

Dr Vincent Tabak, was at Asda ,and the prosecution have us believe, he did it for an alibi...
I was looking to see how he could manage this trip to Longwood Lane, for a man who not only possibly find driving on the wrong side of the road difficult,.But was supposed to be in a mind set as to determine how to get rid of a body...

The roads are bad with the snow and there must be plenty of traffic around as its the party season...

I used google maps to assertain time of travel:

His Drive from his home to Asda in Bedminster, a journey that would take some = 14 minutes:

He's seen at Asda around 10.30.. we know this from the texts he sent, but we don't know how long he was there for, he went into Asda twice, So roughly = 10 minutes
For his Asda trip: ( no time stamp)

Defense time line 111: a journey that would take you home: Another  14 minutes:


Quote
Defence Counsel: In our Timeline 108 to 111- a journey that would take you home. Is that
where you went? As the timeline suggests?
Tabak: Yes.
Defence Counsel: In our Timeline 113, when your car is seen at Clifton Down- after a
period of 20 minutes or so. How did you feel?
Tabak: In a state of despair; panic; unbelief at what had happened.

Defence Counsel: When you left where did you drive then?
Tabak: I drove away from home; I drove in the direction of the airport; and ended up in
Longwood lane.
  =20 minutes:

Clifton Downs to Long Ashton = 17 minutes
Long Ashton to Failand is around =7minutes

When he arrives in Longwood lane how long does he spend, trying to manover a bicycle bag out of his car with a body inside? = 5 minutes to get the bag from the boot?

Takes body out of bag= 5 minutes: can't be easy

Then he has to try lift the body up over the wall, which is another 5 or maybe 10 minutes, i'd say...

This is where I get confused.... If the body is in the foetal position when he tries to lift her over the wall, then how could he have pushed up her pink top.. wouldn't her arms have been in the way,how would he lift her?? (foetal position, indicates curled up).. And wouldn't that in itself, made the task extremely difficult??

She would need to be in a tight foetal position, to fit inside a Bicycle Bag..( knees near chin?)

It would suggest rigor mortis ..if not then it would suggest that Dr Vincent Tabak put her in the foetal position and this was not established in court!!

He finds it too heavy to lift, so he sets about covering up the body with leaves= 5 minutes

He also says he saw 2 or 3 cars pass.. he'd of had to stop what he was doing, =2minutes

He has to put the bag in the car, and the Bicycle bag in the boot, get in car and probaly take a deep breath =3 mins..

Before setting off back home... he arrived at home at about 12.10am

He has the journey time back from Longwood lane to Canygne Road... which direction did he drive back? The same way??

That comes to about 1hour and 51 minutes.. Brings us too 12:21am (not including journey time home)

This is  not including his journey home or difficulties driving in bad weather and not knowing where he was going, He's already used up all the time available.. And 11 minutes more....

Is it really possible??

And the timeline shows he was at home at 12.10am even recieving a text from Tanja at 12:18 am and a call on landline:


And if he stumbled upon Longwood Lane, then he didn't know where it was... So couldn't possibly have googled it later to find out where he supposidly had left Joanna Yeates.












Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on November 30, 2016, 09:20:51 PM
Right i'm back to the Bike Bag:

We have to guess what type of bike bag, Dr Vincent Tabak may have owned (even though it wasn't proven he did own one..)

He was 6ft 4 " Tall, so he would have a large frame:
It was a mountain bike:
How big was the bag and what material was it made from?

It is not likely that this supposed Bicycle bag was a hard case, the reason I would say this is because he was supposed to have put in in a Bin with the Pizza and the sock..
So we could safely guess it has to have no rigid parts to it and be deep enough to fit a body into this...


I've been looking for bags that may be used in this way and the one I found which is closest is..
http://www.skinzprotectivegear.com/bicycleproduct/travelcases.html

of course its not perfect because I dont know what it was supposed to look like :

Apart from the difficulty he may face closing it up, it is also quite a size..

Would it fit comfortable in the boot of his girlfriends Renault Magane?
Would he need to move parcel shelf?
Would he need to put the seats down?

If he put the seats down to put the Bicycle bag in the car boot, what happened to his shopping?

Did he put it on the front seat?

When he put the empty Bicycle bag back inside the boot, did he put the seats back down,

If he struggled to put the body in the car inside a material Bicycle Bag:
Did it catch?,
did it rip?
Did it leave fibres on the boot or edge of boot?

In court they refer to it as a Bicycle cover:(but it has been refered else where as a bicycle bag)
Quote
Defence Counsel: What did you do next?
Tabak: I decided to put her body in my bicycle cover.
( I think this maybe the defences trying to say he didn't own a bicycle bag..)
Quote
Tabak carried Miss Yeates's body in his arms back to his flat next door and put her in his bicycle bag. In a bizarre twist he then went night shopping in Asda with her in his car boot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tabak-guilty-of-joanna-yeates-murder-2377119.html


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bicycle+cover&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjv0Yz6sdHQAhVpK8AKHTZ3BHQQ_AUIBygC

If it was something of this natural, surely he would have to secure it as not to leave evidence ..

So did he tie it up???

Where's the real evidence he diid this???



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 01, 2016, 09:30:20 AM
There isn't any real evidence!! So called "confessions", made after several months on remand, and small amounts of enhanced , inconclusive DNA, and  computer searches, are not necessarily reliable evidence, and they do not prove beyond reasonable doubt that he murdered Joanna. He could have done it, of course, and we have to remember that he might be guilty, but juries are supposed to convict beyond reasonable doubt. 

That is the trouble with the whole case.  Had he been seen on CCTV with Joanna, or following Joanna, or going into her flat, or buying cleaning stuff in ASDA, we would have seen better evidence! 

If we had his DNA and fingerprints all over Joanna's flat, or hers all over his, or her DNA all over his car, or on his clothes, that, too would have been better evidence.

Very easy to convince the general public (and probably easy to convince juries too).  Most people believe what they hear and read in the media.  Don't you remember a time when most people seemed to think Chris Jefferies had done it?? 
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 01, 2016, 09:42:14 AM
Oh, and most people trust the police one hundred per cent, they trust lawyers one hundred per cent, and they believe DNA evidence  , of any kind, is foolproof. 

I am sure most people believe all the stories about the porn and the prostitutes too, particularly now VT is on the sex offenders register.   He apparently admitted having indecent pictures of children, but there should have been an independent witness to verify this-----at his trial.  Was there??  Well, perhaps, but we never heard, and there certainly wasnt a jury.    We don't know whether this was proved beyond reasonable doubt, or whether it was a way of tying a double knot, just in case the stitches started unravelling!

The police never investigated the prostitutes, so we don't know that their stories are true, or if they are talking about the same man.  The newspapers would have paid them well for their stories.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 10:36:45 AM
I know why the bag and cover are confusing:

His defence counsel said this:
Quote
He then put her body in the bag that he used to cover his bike.

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf page 15

Well... was it a bag or a cover???

Massive difference again.....

All the evidence is set to confuse like mrswah has said, there is nothing straight forward in this case..

If its a bag, did she fit in it?? was it a struggle to get in boot?
If its a cover did he bind it??


What help are the defence  when they have they appear to have concluded (IMO) that he's guilty!!

Which means they didn't really investigate where or not he had the time and the means to do this,(IMO)

They just tried to stop him being done for murder... but when they say he's
Quote
frankly disgusting.

I believe that the jury are also swayed by the defences lack of support for his client..(IMO)

If the defence don't support him.. them he must be guilty...(IMO)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 11:22:51 AM
OMG.... I can't stop laughing...

I stumbled across this when a lady clearly stating who she is, is requesting a copy of any signed statements that Dr Vincent Tabak may have signed under the freedom of information act.....
I was trying to find out about a statement that Dr Vincent Tabak signed saying he had committed the crime and they way in which he committed it...
I only thought he signed a statement for his plea, with no detail...

Are they serious......

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vincent_tabak_statements#incoming-559680

Quote
Private Our Reference 917/14

  Your reference 

Mrs N Osey Date 27^th August
2014
[1][FOI #226900 email]

 

Dear Mrs Osey,

 I write in connection with your request for information dated 27^th August
2014 concerning Joana Yeates investigation Under Section 8 of the Freedom
of Information Act 2000 we require a full name in order to process a
request.  Could you therefore provide us with your surname.   

I will be unable to start to process your request until I have received
your full name. If your full name is not received within 20 working days
this request will be closed.

 Yours sincerely,
C Quartey
Freedom of Information Officer    Corporate Information Management Department

Quote
As stated below the ICO guidance of good practice promotes us to consider a request where identity is not relevant and we are content to disclose the information requested. As it is the case that we are not content to disclose we are not considering your request.

As we believe that the name provided is not your real name we are under no obligation to deal with your request (section 8). If you would like us to consider your request please supply your real name in order to make it valid or alternatively please provide identification which shows that Mrs N Osey is your legal name.

FOI Officer

Quote
Dear #Freedom of Information Requests,

I'm slightly confused. My surname, as you ask for, has been displayed since the first email to yourselves.

Yours sincerely,

Mrs N Osey
An amusing read..... I'd of never guessed the outcome.........

Her name is Emily johnston... I'm jumping to the end, ther's plenty to read on the link..
But:
Quote
FOI #226900 email] Date 03 November 2014
Dear Ms Johnson

I write in connection with your request for information that was received
by us on the 27^th August concerning a personal statement.

Specifically you asked: “Please provide me with a copy of any statements
signed by Vincent Tabak during the Joanna Yeates investigation.”

Your request for information has now been considered and I am not obliged
to provide the information. The information is exempt by virtue of section
40(2) third party personal information, and section 30(1)(a)(b)(c)
relating to investigations and proceedings conducted by public
authorities.

Section 40 (2), third party personal information, this is an absolute and
class based exemption which means that there is no requirement to identify
and evidence the harm that would be caused by disclosure or consider the
public interest. Any information to which a request relates is exempt if
it constitutes personal data of which the applicant is not the data
subject and if disclosure of that information to a member of the public
would contravene any of the principles of the 1998 Data Protection Act. In
this particular case, disclosure of this information would contravene
Principles 1 and 2 of the Act, whereby personal data shall be processed
fairly and lawfully and only obtained for one or more specified purpose or
purposes.

Section 30 is a qualified and class based exemption which means that there
is no requirement to identify and evidence the harm that would be caused
by disclosure, however there is a requirement to consider the public
interest.


It goes on to say about any appeal that Dr Vincent Tabak may make....

I didn't think he could make an appeal??

What are they hiding....
There are 18 requests and replies combined:


Why did they bother getting her to keep requesting, to finally tell her that at the end??????

Had to add this little gem..
Quote
Section 30 is a qualified and class based exemption which means that there
is no requirement to identify and evidence the harm that would be caused
by disclosure, however there is a requirement to consider the public
interest.

what harm and to whom?????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 01, 2016, 11:36:19 AM
Yes, I, too laughed at the woman who gave a false name!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 11:46:12 AM
Its so funny...

But on a more serious note, why didn't the say it was data protection in the first place.....

And is that true?

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 12:39:56 PM
 Under the Guidelines set out by Attorney General's Guidelines On Disclosure:


Quote
Disclosure is one of the most important issues in the criminal justice system and the application of proper and fair disclosure is a vital component of a fair criminal justice system. The "golden rule" is that fairness requires full disclosure should be made of all material held by the prosecution that weakens its case or strengthens that of the defence.

This amounts to no more and no less than a proper application of the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 (CPIA) recently amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2003. The amendments in the Criminal Justice Act 2003 abolished the concept of "primary" and "secondary" disclosure, and introduced an amalgamated test for disclosure of material that "might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the prosecution case or assisting the case for accused". It also introduced a new Code of Practice. In the light of these, other new provisions and case law I conducted a review of the Attorney General's Guidelines issued in November 2000.


I believe that the prosecution lack of disclosing the 1300 page document that pertained to all events surrounding the Joanna yeates Case...

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/attorney_generals_guidelines_on_disclosure/


Gave the prosecution an advantage over the defence, which is contrary to the guidelines set out above:



Quote
t is vital that everybody in the criminal justice system operates these procedures properly and fairly to ensure we protect the integrity of the criminal justice system whilst at the same time ensuring that a just and fair disclosure process is not abused so that it becomes unwieldy, bureaucratic and effectively unworkable. This means that all those involved must play their role.

Quote
1. Every accused person has a right to a fair trial, a right long embodied in our law and guaranteed under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). A fair trial is the proper object and expectation of all participants in the trial process. Fair disclosure to an accused is an inseparable part of a fair trial.

Quote
8. Disclosure refers to providing the defence with copies of, or access to, any material which might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the case for the prosecution against the accused, or of assisting the case for the accused, and which has not previously been disclosed.

I'd say 1300 pages of evidence hadn't been disclosed!!


This i find very interesting:
Quote
12. Examples of material that might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the prosecution case or of assisting the case for the accused are:

1  Any material casting doubt upon the accuracy of any prosecution evidence.
 
2  Any material which may point to another person, whether charged or not (including a co-accused) having involvement in the commission of the offence.

3 Any material which may cast doubt upon the reliability of a confession.

4 Any material that might go to the credibility of a prosecution witness.

5 Any material that might support a defence that is either raised by the defence or apparent from the prosecution papers.

6 Any material which may have a bearing on the admissibility of any prosecution evidence.


I think the disclourse of the 1300 page document on the day of trial could have possibly shown that the defendant was indeed innocent and his confession was not valid and not disclosing this A3 bound document well before trial was contrary to the disclosure guidelines..(Number 3)

I believe (IMO) that if the procdures had been followed in occordance with the guidelines Dr Vincent Tabak could have had a fair trail...

Im my opinion, I do not believe that Dr Vincent Tabak received a fair trial, as it was contrary to the disclosure guidelines..

Does this mean that his human rights were violated?

Does this mean he has a right to a re-trial??

I have not seen fair treatment of Dr Vincent Tabak in this case and the vital 1300 page document, which lays out the time lines of everyone associated with the case is of vast importance..

The supposed window of opportunity that Dr Vincent Tabak had was extremeley small... 
Moving a body no less than 3 times.. statiscally doesn't happen..

The CCTV without timestamps....

If I as a person can find inconsistencies with the prosecution theory, than just think what a defence lawyer could do with the time, money and the full discloure of evidence!!!

Quote
17.2.16. The Defence team did not have the chance to examine DNA results by their
own experts; nearly three thousand pages of ‘evidence’ was handed over to the
defence team before the trial and this alone makes for an unfair trial , a breach of the
right to a fair trial.
Sally Ramage papers
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 01:58:25 PM
I still have reservations about the kitchen and the ability for Joanna Yeates to see Dr Vincent Tabak, passing..

The image I have attached shows the same kitchen fitted with the bits and bobs you'd associate with what a small kitchen holds, there are few surfaces and `i think the kitchen on the left, shows a more acurate looking kitchen ,than the virtually empty kitchen on the right that the jury saw.... (the images are the same kitchen).

Placing things in the window sill in small kitchens is quite normal, this also would obstruct any view in or out!!

Did they test the blind to see if it was broken??

The only bit of the blind that looks broken on the right, is that top strap of wood...

They just stick on, they are to cover the metal pole that the blind is attached to..., I remember mine coming off all the time, they used to annoy me,.. but they did NOT interfer with the working of the blind, that wood strap is merely there for decorational purposes....( to hide the metal pole)...

I always have my blinds so i can see out and no one can see in...

Also if its dark outside and light inside, you would not see a person passing the window...




[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 02:53:53 PM
I'd like to do my :Working Backwards again after finding what time she had to be in her flat:

Work backwards:

10.30 Asda.

14 minutes drive to bedminster....10.16
Go get his car off the street and park it by his house.. 5 mins..  10:11( the drive was slippy CJ had trouble, in The Honour of CJ)....

How many minutes to put a body in a car? two attempts.. 5/10 mins ....10:01( on a slippy surface)

She's in his flat for an 1 hour.... 9:01 (this was stated by the prosecution, that she was in his flat for 1 hour)..
There must be some evidence that Dr Vincent Tabak was in his flat an hour before he went to Asda!

On The Documentary murder at xmas part 1
It states at about 8minutes 35 secs ...    Between 8:45 and 8:50 Jo was in her flat preparing her supper!!
 (they must have some evidence to cohberate this)...


You then have 11 mins left for all the events to take place..


Now: Dr Vincent Tabak walks past the flat and kitchen window,

She apparently waves at Tabak and invite him in.... 

Open the door , let him in, 1 minutes

Go back to kitchen and talk for 10 minutes, (be flirty as Dr Vincent Tabak says).. (Times up)!!


He Has NO available time to complete the attack, and move the body at least 4 times!!
The quote below is in part from an earlier post by me:

Quote
She sustained 43 injuries how many minutes would an attack take to cause all those injuries?? Surely with such an attack he's off left alot more of himself behind at the flat (DNA ,fibres, finger prints, etc)

A 20 second attack.. with 43 injuries... not likely.She fought for her life (5 mins)

He then puts her on the bed, (how did her earring end up in the duvet? did he make the bed??)carry her from the kitchen down the hall ( 5 mins plus?)

He goes round to his flat,(2 mins)

Comes back..( checks she alive 1min to 2 mins??)

Then...

Moves her, from the bedroom,

 through the hallway, through the front doorway ( did he leave it open or did he have to open it again) would you want to risk someone walking through an open door as your committing a crime? (5 mins)

Lets not forget this is a dead weight... very difficult for one person to move....

Turns left carries her down the side of the building, turns left again, carries her across the back of the building,past he bedroom window , past his bedroom window puts her down,( is it at this point he opens his own flat door?) lifts her up again and carries her through his flat .. (5/10 mins??)

Put her down, get a bicycle bag, and put her in it. (5 minutes plus )?
 

There's another 35 minutes there without cleaning up......
If there is evidence that Dr Vincent Tabak was indeed in his flat 1 hour prior to going to Asda, when was he supposed to have cleaned up the flat and removed the evidence???

They have him at home from 12:10pm and the time between that and being at Asda  is when he was supposed to have got rid of Jo...

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
Quote
Defence Counsel: Turn to entry 11.
‘Entry 11- seen past the flat at 9.05 where Tanya had already left for work in a lift-share’.

Who saw him at this time? they could cohoberate whether he used the little gate or the drive entrance....

Quote
Timeline 30- Internet use at home- Tanja used the laptop – The Defendant was still at
work.

This tends to lean to the fact that the laptop was shared.... "The Laptop"...

So without Tanja Morson giving evidence, who looked at what on "The Laptop"... I had heard they had a visitor staying with them for a few weeks prior to 17thDec... on another forum..

So are the searches all Dr Vincent Tabak's searches?????

Quote
Recapping- you come off the Internet at 7.37pm (our entry 47) & remain in your flat until
9.29pm (our entry 88).

So if the defence new he was in his Flat until 9:29pm , why didn't they work out that it wasn't possible for him to committ this offence??

If they new he was in his Flat until 9.29pm!!!

What evidence had the defence found that had Dr Vincent Tabak in his flat until (9:29pm???)

Again if the prosecution say he was in his flat 1 hour before going to Asda... he's at Asda at at least 10.30pm(text and CCTV)
How could he possibly have committed the crime???  (travel time to Bedminster 14mins)

Surely the prosecutions claim that she was killed around 5 minutes after she arrived home is incorrect, if they want us to believe that Dr Vincent Tabak committed the Crime...

Unless it was someone else who did it at that time????


Where is the time... surely I am not the only person who can see with my last two posts it is impossible for him to do it!!!!


10:16pm = going to Asda

9:16pm  =1 hour before that

9:29pm = He was still in his flat according to the defence ( hadn't left)

When did de leave??? to go to the flat next door??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 01, 2016, 06:36:20 PM
Sorry one more post...



I feel the defence's inaccurate guessing, really put paid to his client (IMO)

The quotes below are from: Defence Counsel, Mr William Clegg, QC’s opening speech:

Quote
This does mean that one really hasn’t got a real clue as to when Tabak went into
Joanna’s flat except that it was between the time he went to Asda and the time he texted
his girlfriend, say, between 9.00 pm and 11.00 pm.

Say between (9:00pm and 11:00pm) ... he was at bloody Asda at 10:30pm

Quote
One thing is certain. Joanna Yeates was killed between 21.00 and 21.30 pm on Friday 17
December 2010.
so he apparently does have a time... why does he know she was killed between these times??

Quote
His defence will not be heard to excuse this behaviour.
erm.... thought you were defending him... Not making yourself look good!!

Quote
He was obviously concerned with the incident, trying to track everything.
This is the defence saying , they believe the searches... ( which wasn't proven and doesn't show intent)....

Quote
Again he told lie after lie and you will hear no excuse from me about that. It shows a very
calculating person trying to wriggle out of her death but it does not help in thinking of
what happened at the flat….
 

OMG please defend me when i need help..... (i'm not disrespecting the family... I'm shocked at the supposed defence)!

The quotes below are when Dr Vincent Tabak is on the witness stand:..

Quote
Defence Counsel: Look at our timeline chart again. No 76. Jo Yeates did not get back to
her flat until 8.37 or thereabouts.

Well we know she was in her flat at 8:50pm and was at Tesco at 8:40pm

I have to admit i think this next quote is my all time favourite:
Quote
Recapping- you come off the Internet at 7.37pm (our entry 47) & remain in your flat until
9.29pm (our entry 88).
How soon before that did you left your flat?

I nearly cried laughing at the defence counsel........
How can he leave his flat???

Why on earth would he suggest he left the flat when he's stating he was in there.... if it's confusing to me what did the jury think???

Is he making the Jury prejudical to Dr Vincent Tabak, with these type of statments....

You have already covered his movements up until that point!! suggesting he managed to leave.... How???

Levitation.. Time Travel... Dr Who's Tardis..

The defence clearly ignore there own timelines....

They say that she was killed between 9:00pm and 9:30pm at one point...

Didn't it dawn on the defence that they have also just said that Dr Vincent tabak was in his own flat until 9:29pm!!!!

This leaves 1 minute to go to his neighbour ,attack her , move the body 4 times etc....

This is wishy washy at best, I honestly do not know what one should make of the statements made by the defence (IMO)









Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 02, 2016, 02:15:47 PM
 I'm going to look at Dr Vincent Tabak's searches.. and see where they all lead:

Quote
At Line 118 of the prosecution chart
Tabak accessed the Internet and performed some Google searches
On 18 Dec 2010, Tabak searched at
1.26 am- ‘BBC news’ and ‘weather forecast’
1.46 am- ‘weather forecast’
1.47 am- ‘BBC Bristol news’

These searches I was about to say when he returned home from meeting Tanja...
But I wanted to check so looked at the Sally Ramage papers and:

Quote
Defence Counsel: You were on the Internet later. Why did you do that? Constant contact
with Tanja by phone. At I.38 am, 18 December, you were leaving again in the hatchback.
Is this to collect Tanja from the Coach?
Tabak: Yes.


He's searches look quite normal for someone who's thinking Shit!!

But I did notice that the searches are not correct... After he goes to pick up Tanja he get lost on park street, 2 mins later he's seen coming out of Park Street..

After he gets Tanja, he goes with her to buy a burger which they eat in the car ...
Then they will need to travel home...

So The BIG question is!!!!!

How could he possibly do a google search at 1:46am  and again at 1:47am when he was seen leaving in Tanja's  hatchback at 1:38am???

I'm sure it would have taken him more than 8 mins to get Tanja, A google map search of Canygne Rd to Park Street , gives a driving time of 6 mins....

he got lost for at least 2 minutes ,Then he rang her for directions... so we now have 0 minutes to find where Tanaj is.... Pick her up go for a burger eat it in the car and drive home....

Don't think the internet search is RIGHT!!!!!!

(has someone been interfering with Dr Vincent Tabak's Computer!!!!!)

Is there CCTV of them arriving home???

He cannot have possibly used his computer at 1:46am or 1:47 am  to do 2 different searches as he wasn't even at home....

Go figure..........
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 02, 2016, 05:38:03 PM
yes
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 08:15:58 AM
What ever happened to the crucial new evidence that was handed in???

Did it simply disappear??

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/300493/jo-crucial-clue-found/

Was this the console...

They had found a shard of console at Jo yeates flat, that was mentioned in court, but was never brought to the public's attention??
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 09:05:50 AM
I was watching the Crime Watch Documentary Part 2 and there is great inconsistencies  with what happened:

At 3:13-
Quote
Tabak's statement was a smokescreen. The landlord was entirely innocent..When police checked Jefferies DNA against the sample found on Jo's body, there was no match... he was freed without charge

CJ was freed 2nd Jan 2011 ..... This is 8 days after Jo, is found, on 28 th Dec 2010 a post mortem was carried out...

leaving 5 days available to do the tests on the DNA sample...

At 4:00 on the video it says :
Quote
Then shortly before the reconstruction was due to air, they made a dramatic breakthrough... Forensic Scientists had spent weeks enhancing the tiny DNA sample found on Jo's body.. Enabling them to establish a link to Vincent Tabak.. The Detectives suspisions were being confirmed

Now how did it free CJ in a matter of days, but it suddenly takes weeks for Dr Vincent Tabak....
Surely it's the same sample...



So was it weeks or Days???  (The DNA was partial and was no use anyway...)


More examples of things that do NOT add up in this case...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 09:34:13 AM
Again from Crime watch Part 2 : DI Joe Goff:

Quote
those screams were of particular interest because it helped us to time, when the acctual incident had happened within Flat 1 which resulted in Joanna's death

Now the screams heard by neighbours were put down to a number of things, one being possibly party revellers:

Quote
The jury, judge, journalists and police visited Percival Court- a property overlooking Flat
1 and adjacent to the rear of Miss Yeates' flat because witnesses claimed to have heard
screams that night- one witness standing at 53 Canynge Road and the other from Percival
Court opposite the property of 44 Canynge Road.


This is behind the flat of Jo' yeates.... This was on the friday... but as i've said before that a guy called Kingdom ( i've posted quotes from Kingdom) who also lived behind heard screams for help on the Saturday morning, but was not called as a witness...

Quote
The couple arriving outside number 53, a short time after they were filmed on CCTV at
number 83.
But the weather conditions were icy. How long did it take them to get there?
Warren Sweet said he did not arrive at Number 53’s party until 8.50pm on Friday 17
December 2010.
 When he arrived at No. 53, Warren Sweet said he heard a scream. That cannot be the
same scream that the couple heard.
 The reaction of all four people who heard screams was initially put down to students out
celebrating as term had finished that day.
You may think that the whole of those screams is totally unconnected.
You just couldn’t hear anybody from that distance.

So it was the screams that could be anything that the police used to determine when Joanna Yeates died:

The Foresnsics couldn't give an exact time of death...
Quote
The clerk then read out the murder charge, which is alleged to have taken place between December 16 and December 26.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-vincent-tabak-in-court-174288

If they don't know when she died how can they say when it happened and that the screams were definetaly hers???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 10:51:54 AM
mrswah... this is something I haven't heard before???


http://swns.com/news/vincent-tabak-moved-prison-over-attack-fears-14290/

Quote
Paul Cook, defending the Dutch academic, confirmed his client did not wish to make an application for bail. He was remanded in custody and will appear in a preliminary hearing on Monday January 31.

And then......
Quote
Jo Yeates murder suspect Vincent Tabak has been been moved to a different prison over fears he may be attacked by fellow inmates.


A source told The Sun: “It was decided to move him for his own good. There are a lot of local people in Bristol Prison and he could have been at risk because feelings locally are running high.”




Well..... the suprising news is that he didn't want bail...

I'm thinking..... oh please please , mister policeman, send me to Gloucester prison instead and then move me again the next day to Long Lartin, where I can really feel safe.....!!!!!!!


Is someone having a Giraffe????

Why on earth, would he not want "Bail", and be with his family and friends, and be able to sort out a proper defence...

This is ridiculous.... I'm sure if someone ask Dr Vincent Tabak about Bail he would say YES.. I want out of prison...

WHO WOULD WANT TO STAY........ shall we have a  poll????






Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 03, 2016, 11:19:02 AM
I think far too much was made of the screams in court.

It was Christmas party time, when people muck around and make a noise-----the screams may well have had absolutely nothing to do with Joanna's murder.

Yes, I have read what "Kingdom" says-----he thinks it was Saturday morning (daytime, not the early hours).  We don't know whether or not the screams he heard were connected with Joanna either.  Interesting that he was not called as a witness, but then, of course his testimony did not fit in with Jo being killed on the Friday evening.

It is almost as if they had to fill the trial time with something, as they did not have enough actual evidence.

Can't understand why the police spent so much time looking for the pizza either.  The most obvious explanation is that Jo ate it and died later than we think.  Perhaps Kingdom was right???  The forensic person said her last meal was her lunch-----who knows if this is really true or not?  It is somewhat suspicious that Jo's stomach contents were sent to Scotland to be examined:  isn't there anyone more local to Bristol who could have done that?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 03, 2016, 11:27:36 AM
As for the piece of "crucial evidence" found at the scene, we were never told what it was. 

Had it been something belonging to VT,  we might be more inclined to believe in his guilt, might we not, particularly if it was, for example, his bank card, or something like a pen that TM could have identified as being his. 

 But, if they don't say, then we dont know!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 03:58:36 PM
DNA..... much was made about Dr Vincent Tabak's dna being on Joanna Yeates,

Quote
Tiny samples of DNA from a single cell are more prone to
errors in analysis and can also be easily transferred to a crime scene, even if an
individual was not present.

Does this apply to the microscopic blood sample that was supposedly found in Dr Vincent Tabak's car??

Quote
s. A mixture can be interpretated in many
ways since there is no clear way to tell which part of the profile comes from which
individual: this means that mixed DNA profiles are open to interpretation, particularly if a
forensic laboratory is biased by trying to find a match with a particular suspect.

So. It's not safe then????


Quote
Familial searching is a process by which investigators look for partial matches between
crime scene DNA profiles and the DNA profiles of individuals stored on a DNA database.
This can be used to identify a relative of the suspect

Ah.... you need one of Dr. Vincent Tabak's relatives to confirm this.....

Quote
Familial searching leads to a long list of partial matches which must be shortened by
additional DNA testing and/or other policework.

Shortened and relatives used to get a match......

Quote
False matches between an individual’s profile and a crime scene DNA profile can occur
by chance, or due to poor laboratory procedures, and the implications of someone’s
DNA being at a crime scene can also be misinterpreted.

The labrotory that performed the DNA match, has had many errors.....

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/forensic-science-regulators-report-on-the-dna-contamination-case-at-lgc-forensics

Quote
The misuse of the plastic trays during another batch was spotted by LGC staff
on 11 October 2011 and procedures changed to prevent the error happening
again. However, the incident report was not sufficiently escalated and an
opportunity was missed to check back and identify the same issue a few days
earlier. The re-use of the trays was the result of human error by an unidentified
laboratory technician failing to follow the LGC operating procedures.

So did LGC Forensic's use the same tray when they tested Dr Vincent Tabak's  DNA and Joanna Yeates DNA????
Quote
The error that led to the contamination has occurred on at least two occasions,
one identified on 12 October 2011 and again in this case. However, checks
against approximately 26,000 samples and the results of their DNA profiling
results have identified no further cases of contamination across or between
unrelated cases processed from 1 March to 12 October 2011

What about before....



Quote
A key issue is whether prosecution requires corroborating evidence, or whether a person
can be convicted on the basis of DNA evidence alone. The process of explaining DNA
evidence to the court is also crucial: the value of DNA evidence can easily be overstated
by using misleading statistics, particularly when the crime scene DNA profile is not
complete. Expert forensic witnesses must not be under pressure to misrepresent
evidence in cases where the interpretation may be in doubt (for example, when a mixed
DNA profile is involved).

Did this get explained fully??

http://www.genewatch.org/uploads/f03c6d66a9b354535738483c1c3d49e4/infopack_fin.pdf

Nevertheless ... partial DNA cannot identify a suspect...
And LGC Forensics, have made many errors ...

So was the DNA Dr Vincent Tabak's at the crime scene? And was the microscopic blood sample Jo's??
And was the DNA safe!!
Quote
Mr Adam Scott was the innocent victim of avoidable contamination from an
unrelated case that did contain his DNA.
11.2 The contamination was the result of human error by a technician who failed to
follow basic procedures for the disposal of plastic trays used as part of a
validated DNA extraction process.

Oops... one of their victims....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 04:39:42 PM
Where was Joanna Yeates found????

I say this because things are confusing, and I think it's relevant in the case against Dr Vincent Tabak..

Quote
The police may also erect tents or tarpaulins to minimise the view of a crime scene to both press and public and also so that a police doctor or pathologist can carry out a cursory examination of a corpse before it is moved for autopsy. It is necessary that a corpse is examined at its current location so that no claims of bruising or post mortem injury can be made.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/establishing-a-crime-scene.html

Yes.. the scene of crime should be protected...


So, that established, Joanna Yeates should be inside the tent....

Joanna Yeates body. is nearer to the entrance of the quarry than the verge where the wall is....

With the pictures I have attached you can clearly see that the body was no where near a wall.... I do not understand why they would change the location of where someone is found... And......

Quote
Forensic officers used a broom handle to help recover her frozen body from a country lane on Christmas Day, the court heard.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-killer-cries-in-dock-274852

So..... which one was it...... The 8 fire brigade appliances they had attend the scene.. or a broom handle????


There is more twists and turns in this case, than anything...

She is defineatley located closer to the entrance of the quarry, she is not up close to a verge and a wall.., the forensic tent would not have been erected to the side.. it would have been in the middle of the road and you would have been able to see it looking straight up Longwood lane, but it's definetly to the left and the curb curves, suggesting an entrance...


So how did her blood end up on a wall???? the walls look some distance away.... Did Dr Vincent Tabak, carry her up and down Longwood lane, using more time??

But no wait.................

Quote
Officers avoided putting a tent over her body amid fears that evidence could be compromised, the jury heard.

So they told the Jury they didn't use a tent!!!!!

OMG.... I can see it... hello Forensic Tent in picture..... what did they use it for????

Ah.... Brew Tent!!! of course, has to be... it must be in the forensic handbook... erect a tent for a brew!!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-killer-cries-in-dock-274852

So they are saying that they didn't follow protocol , regards the TENT!!!!





EDIT:  this is weird
Quote
Andrew Mott, a forensic officer who reached the scene after police arrived shortly after 9am, told how he tried to prevent Miss Yeates's body thawing out.

  Thought the weather was really bad, WHY would he need to prevent it from thawing out.... that is the craziest thing i've heard...

If the body is frozen solid as it was supposed to be there since the 17th Dec 2010... why would it thaw in the cold...

Ah... protect it with a Forensic Tent!!


Quote
Dr Delaney performed the first examination at 6pm on the day her body was found.

Why wait so long if the body was thawing?






[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
Missed an attachment ..... oops

It shows the crane they say was used to remove, Joanna Yeates body..

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 05:15:59 PM
Something that were never mentioned:

Quote
On Tuesday the Crimewatch crew filmed the Jo lookalike - an un-named actress who works for the BBC - in the Tesco store purchasing a Tesco Finest mozzarella, tomato and basil pesto pizza from a self-service checkout.
The blonde actress, aged in her 20s, wore a cream sports jacket, grey trousers, black boots and a rucksack.
She was also carrying a black handbag and white carrier bag, just as Jo was on the night she vanished.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348832/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Vincent-Tabaks-flat-searched-man-32-arrested.html#ixzz4RnMqsr4Q

Now I've mentioned her handbag before... ( on other forums) why is it never mentioned??

I believe when you look at the bargain booze video, she is seen going into it at the till.. she uses two hands to access her purse.... (the video suddenly cuts)

So...... Again.... why would her .... Keys, purse and glasses be in her rucksack??? Shouldn't they be in her bag like most woman keep there things!!!!

Now the black handbag, is not mentioned in Greg's statement or in the court, .... where is it???



I always believed her rucksack was for her work, as an architect, she would need to carry several items for
 her job...


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 03, 2016, 07:25:32 PM
Lets just re-cap....

Quote
Forensic officers used a broom handle to help recover her frozen body from a country lane on Christmas Day, the court heard.

Quote
Andrew Mott, a forensic officer who reached the scene after police arrived shortly after 9am, told how he tried to prevent Miss Yeates's body thawing out.

Now... why wasn't there any photographs of the following:

 
Quote
Tabak's QC, William Clegg, questioned why photographs were not taken of a broom being used to arrange straps underneath the body so her body could be taken away.

"I can't comment on why that was the case," Mr Mott said.

( who takes the forensic pictures..???)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/killer-weeps-over-images-of-joanna-yeates-body-2370602.html

So did they really use a broom handle... or are we back to mrswah's evidence of 8 fire brigade appliances????

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 04, 2016, 05:58:04 PM
The scene at Longwood Lane:

Quote
Officers put up a white tent over the ditch where the body was found on Longwood Lane, which was cordoned off at both ends. An ambulance with a police escort took the body from the scene at 4.45pm.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majornews/8225131/Despair-of-Joanna-Yeatess-father-as-body-is-found.html

Quote
Dr Delaney performed the first examination at 6pm on the day her body was found.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-killer-cries-in-dock-274852

Why was the body removed before Dr Delaney had seen it??
Quote
"A pathologist will be attending the scene to examine the body. It is far too early to confirm the cause of death or any circumstances," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12079050


I'm a little confused, I believed that Dr Delaney was the pathologist that examined Joanna yeates
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 04, 2016, 09:36:46 PM
Drag Marks:


How was it possible to move Joanna Yeates from her flat without leaving any Drag Marks?

Quote
It is understood they are investigating whether Miss Yeates's body was taken from her home in a large bag or suitcase.

The Sun reported that the line of inquiry arose because there were no drag marks on Miss Yeates's body or clothing.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-police-search-neighbours-flat-after-arrest-2189467.html

How was Dr Vincent Tabak have managed to carry a body ,he'd of needed to lift it from the  floor without leaving any drag marks...

Is it physically possible to lift a dead weight ,without dragging or dropping it? And move it, plenty of times, or did he do it in one swift movement or several short bursts

How physically difficult is it??

DNA Evidence:

When did they match the DNA evidence to Dr Vincent Tabak?

Quote
"These things take time. DNA evidence and things like that take a while in any investigation. We just have to sit tight now."

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/neighbour-is-held-over-joanna-yeates-murder-1-1497771

So..... what evidence did they arrest him on???

Quote
She said: "It is good news - but it is just a case of waiting to see if they have enough to charge him.


What happened to the entomology on Jo and in the area?


Quote
Most insects in the winter, however, are found burrowed under leaf litter or bored into the bark of a tree or surrounded by a protective shell like a cocoon or gall.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0215_050215_insects_2.html

Again about the DNA:

Where was the DNA transfer from Dr Vincent Tabak to Joanna yeats...  Skin cells from Dr Vincent Tabak should have been present around Janna Yeates neck..

http://www.forensicmag.com/article/2012/06/touch-dna-analysis-using-literature-help-answer-some-common-questions

Partial Dna results
Quote
All three are thought to have been from the killer’s saliva, but have yielded only partial results. Sources said that they should be enough to rule out suspects over her murder – but probably not enough to conclusively prove anyone’s guilt.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349356/Joanna-Yeates-murder-suspect-Vincent-Tabak-split-girlfriend.html#ixzz4Ru82lBgS
 

Quote
LGC Forensics, the UK's largest independent provider of forensic services, successfully used a range of advanced forensic techniques, including LGC’s proprietary DNA enhancement method, DNASenCE, to link Vincent Tabak to the 2010 murder of Joanna Yeates.

http://www.lgcgroup.com/about-us/media-room/latest-news/2011/lgc-forensics-provides-key-evidence-in-jo-yeates-i/#.WERzVaKLRgc

The don't state that the sample went through the extra senCE process, i've attached a diagram of what they do..

Quote
However the increased sensitivity of this DNA profiling technique brings about amplified concerns over issues of ease of contamination and amplification of these contaminants, mixed profiles being produced and wrongful accusations. With techniques such as LCN, it is now more important than ever that investigators wear suitable protective clothing and follow strict anti-contamination procedures, and controls are used in analyses.

http://aboutforensics.co.uk/dna-analysis/

Quote
1) There is a greater potential for error (compared with conventional STR typing protocols).

2) Errors of interpretation can be caused by allele drop-in, allele drop-out, peak height imbalance, and large stutter peaks.

3) There is a need for a robust and reliable quantitation assay in order to determine the amount of DNA available for analysis.

4) LCN profiles are not generally reproducible. Because of the potential error, the probative value of the results may not be estimated reliably.

5) The interpretation of mixture profiles from LCN typing is problematic. Interpretation guidelines based upon reliable validation studies do not exist.

6) Because of the sensitivity of the assay and the types of samples analyzed (ie, touch samples), the LCN profile may not be relevant to a case.

7) The evidence cannot be used for exculpatory purposes.

8) Proper evidence collection and handling protocols have not been well established or at least communicated.

9) Reagents and consumables may contain low level amounts of extraneous DNA that can complicate the interpretation of LCN typing results.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2702736/

So if this evidence of low copy DNA could not be used for exculpatory purposes it could not be used to rule Dr Vincent Tabak in either.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 11:07:51 AM
How can this information be available before Dr Vincent Tabak even went to Trial:

Quote
Case No: CO/3685/2011
Neutral Citation Number: [2011] EWHC 2074 (Admin)
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION
DIVISIONAL COURT
Royal Courts of Justice
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
Date: 29/07/2011
Before :
THE LORD CHIEF JUSTICE OF ENGLAND AND WALES
LORD JUSTICE THOMAS
and
MR JUSTICE OWEN
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Between :
 Her Majesty’s Attorney-General Claimant
- and -
 (1) MGN Limited
(2) News Group Newspapers Limited
Defendants
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Mr Dominic Grieve QC, Her Majesty’s Attorney-General and Miss Melanie Cumberland
(instructed by the Treasury Solicitor) for the Claimant
Mr Jonathan Caplan QC (Instructed by Reynolds Porter Chamberlain LLP) for the First
Defendant
Miss Adrienne Page QC and Mr Anthony Hudson (Instructed by Farrer & Co) for the Second
Defendant
Hearing date: 5th July 2011
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Judgment



Quote
Vincent Tabak was charged with the murder of Miss
. On 4th
March Mr Jefferies was informed that he was released from police bail. On 5th May
Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central
Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to her manslaughter. He denied murder on the basis
of diminished responsibility.

http://onebrickcourt.com/files/cases/ag_89381.pdf

Quote
There is therefore no doubt about the identity of the man who killed Miss Yeates or
that Mr Jefferies is innocent of any involvement in it.

Several points there:

Diminished responsibilities, was never given as a reason in court.... "Or was it"??

He never pleaded Diminished responablities that I am aware of:...

How can they publish that there was NO DOUBT that Dr Vincent Tabak was guilty of a crime before he attended a trail?????

A confession is not proof of guilt....

The 1300 page document could have had his Lawyers change his plea....

But according to the pdf... HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE had already decided that Dr Vincent Tabak was guilty...

How can that be???

Isn't that information Prejudical to Dr Vincent Tabak's Trial??

The Judgement was made on the  29th July 2011

Anyone who was following the CJ saga could have read the report, Jurors and the general public alike...

How can they claim that there is NO DOUBT that Dr Vincent Tabak was responsible for Joanna Yeates death some nearly 3 months before the trial had taken place.....

They could have been anything that happened:
For instance:

(1) New evidence proved his confession was false..
(2) The sock was handed in
(3) another person had come forward to confess
(4) The lawyers had worked out that Dr Vincent Tabak, didn't have time to kill her..
(5) New witness's had come forward
(6) They found the console


check the guide lines I posted: reply 414   December 01, 2016, 12:39:56 PM »

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.405

If the HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE... is telling the world that Dr Vincent Tabak is guilty before he has gone to trial...

Quote
Tabak pleaded guilty to manslaughter as he appeared on the video link from Long Lartin prison in Evesham, Worcs. But the prosecution refused to accept the plea and he will go on trial for murder in the autumn.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-neighbour-vincent-tabak-126826
Quote
BYMARTIN FRICKERANDREW GREGORY
00:01, 6 MAY 2011

How could his trial have possibly have been FAIR!!!!!!

In the PDf's own words
Quote
Courts on these occasions
expressing grave doubts as to the jury’s ability to forget or put
aside what they had heard or read. I am certainly not saying
that in respect of one and the same publication there cannot be
both a contempt…and a safe conviction. Plainly there can,
most obviously perhaps in cases where the trial has had to be
moved or delayed to minimise the prejudice occasioned by
some publication.


Did the Court actually Rule that their decision Dr Vincent Tabak was GUILTY before Trial could be perceived as prejudical!!!
Is this actually allowed?????

They were aware that Dr Vincent Tabak had not had his trial
I'm not suprised his defence team failed:

How can they come to the conclusion of guilt of a defendant, before Trial... I thought innocent until PROVEN GUILTY........!!!
HOW PREJUDICAL CAN YOU GET!!!


CJ's ruling was based partly on the fact that they decided that Dr Vincent Tabak was GUILTY...  ( obviously I do not agree with what the newspapers said,and they shouldn't get away with it)

And thats the High Court... God help us!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 05, 2016, 12:58:42 PM
I have never heard anything about diminished responsibility in relation to this case.

Their assumptions re VT are out of order, to my mind, but I suppose we have to consider that they were not concerned with him at all for the purposes of this document, but with Chris Jefferies, and emphasising HIS innocence. 

It is all wrong, though, to assume that because someone has confessed, that they did it, and to assume this before a trial has taken place. That is not how the system is supposed to work.

Guilty until proven innocent----------------!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on December 05, 2016, 01:07:37 PM
Normally when someone says they are guilty of a crime, there is no trial, no need to witnesses to appear or the expense and time.

The only difference is where they only agree to part of the charge/offence which is what he did. Manslaughter to murder so there is nothing unusual in how it worked out at all
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: John on December 05, 2016, 01:22:52 PM
I cannot see why an application was not made as the defence did not recieve the prosecution papers at this time..
And surely in his clients best interest an application for bail should have been made..
Dr Vincent Tabak was of good character and had no previous convictions...
And wasn't a threat to National sercurity..


So why no application???
Does this not seem odd??????


No, it is not odd at all.  Vincent Tabak was a foreign national facing a murder charge in England.  Bail will almost never be granted in such circumstances.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 01:23:36 PM
But....... There was a trial and THE HIGH COURT , knew that he was facing trial...

Quote
On 5th May
Tabak admitted that he was responsible for killing Miss Yeates when, at the Central
Criminal Court, he pleaded guilty to her manslaughter. He denied murder on the basis
of diminished responsibility. The trial of that issue will take place in the autumn.

They were well aware he had a trial due.... 3 months after their findings.... outrageous(IMO)

So whether he pleaded guilty.... new evidence could quite easily have cast doubt on Dr Vincent Tabak's confession...

And the supposed confession he made to a Priest...

I cannot see how it's THE HIGH COURTS decision to say someone is guilty before, a trial...  Under the Guidelines set out by Attorney General's Guidelines On Disclosure:

Clearly states that an admission of guilt may be over turned by new evidence...


AGAIN......... 1300 pages of new evidence, ( dumped on the defence on the first day of trial...)

Not to mention the significant piece of evidence that was handed into the police, but was not used at trail....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/300493/jo-crucial-clue-found/

They should have ommitted Dr Vincent Tabak's name from the findings,..... But they didn't!!!

Read my reply:  Reply #414 on: December 01, 2016, 12:39:56 PM »
Read my reply:  Reply #434 on: Today at 11:07:51 AM »


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367108#msg367108
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367857#msg367857
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 01:24:29 PM
No, it is not odd at all.  Vincent Tabak was a foreign national who facing a murder charge.  Bail will almost never be granted in such circumstances.

What about the High Court Ruling John?????



The papers said two different thing... he was applying for bail... And he wasn't going to apply for bail..

But According to one source ..Bail wasn't even asked for..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 01:38:29 PM
I have never heard anything about diminished responsibility in relation to this case.

Their assumptions re VT are out of order, to my mind, but I suppose we have to consider that they were not concerned with him at all for the purposes of this document, but with Chris Jefferies, and emphasising HIS innocence. 

It is all wrong, though, to assume that because someone has confessed, that they did it, and to assume this before a trial has taken place. That is not how the system is supposed to work.

Guilty until proven innocent----------------!


Yes, But they didn't have to prove CJ's case with saying DR Vincent Tabak was guilty 3 months before he had even had a trial.....

The vicious nature of the media's representation of CJ, should have been enough in it's self!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 03:20:18 PM
I have never heard anything about diminished responsibility in relation to this case.


I was trying to find out about when he claimed Diminished responsiblities.. I found this
Quote
CPS statement on Vincent Tabak

28/10/2011

CPS statement on the trial of Vincent Tabak

Ann Reddrop, head of the South West Complex Casework Unit, said: "Vincent Tabak was a cunning, dishonest and manipulative man who knew exactly what he was doing when he killed Joanna Yeates. Today, he has been convicted by a jury in Bristol of her murder last year, despite claiming he meant her no harm.

"He was cunning and dishonest towards his girlfriend with whom he maintained a normal relationship - even going so far as to text her shortly after Joanna was dead to say he was bored.

"He manipulated the police by virtue of his own in-depth research on the Internet to keep one step ahead of the investigation before his arrest, looking up extradition and medical details of decomposition.

"He made very selective admissions surrounding the circumstances of Joanna's death, which sought to cast her in an unfavourable light and he kept this up even when he was giving evidence to the jury. Tabak thought his cleverness and deceit would prevent him being convicted of a brutal murder. He was wrong.

"Joanna went missing on 17 December 2010 after meeting friends for drinks. For several days the police mounted a missing person enquiry but with the discovery of her body on Christmas Day it became a murder investigation. The police team undertook a painstaking enquiry into this murder and Vincent Tabak became the focus of their attention following the finding of  his DNA on Joanna's body

"Late in December 2010, the police asked for assistance and guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service. That assistance has come from the South West Complex Casework Unit based here in Bristol. I reviewed the evidence, advised that Vincent Tabak should be charged with Joanna's murder and began preparing the case for trial.

"In May 2011, Tabak admitted the manslaughter of Joanna but that was only part of the story.  The Crown's case is, and always has been, that it was a deliberate act on his part and that is why we refused to accept his plea to manslaughter and he has faced trial for murder over the past four weeks.

"Joanna's family has been here in Bristol during the trial and have listened to much of the evidence. Our thoughts are with them today as Tabak begins a life sentence for killing their daughter."

Ends
  http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/cps_statement_on_vincent_tabak/

But when you scroll down to May 2011... there is no mention of Dr Vincent Tabak

So where's the claim he admitted manslaughter with diminshed responsibilities..

The only other written word i could find about diminished responsibilites was :

Quote
Notes for RNZ slot from Ursula Cheer (Associate Professor)
Canterbury University, 7 September 2011

https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/6144/12634054_Notes%20for%20RNZ%20slot_September%202011from%20Ursula%20Cheer.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y 


Quote
Today I am going to talk about how the Daily Mirror and the Sun published
appalling stores about a man called Christopher Jefferies and were later
convicted of contempt and had to pay out significant damages for
defamation as well.

So she spoke to a class??? students?? did she influence these peoples beliefs on something that hadn't even gone to trial and with new evidence the outcome could have been clearly different...

Quote
Vincent Tabak was charged with the murder. On 4th March Mr
Jefferies was informed that he was released from police bail. Just over a
month later, Tabak admitted in court that he was responsible for killing Miss
Yeates, and pleaded guilty to her manslaughter. He denied murder on the
basis of diminished responsibility and was committed for trial on the murder
charge, the trial to be heard about now..

Again this is 1 month before Dr Vincent Tabak's trial, so if an Associate Professor believes he's guilty before trial..

Any Tom Dick or Harry can presume the same!!! on the availability of the High Courts Findings on CJ.....!!!!

So again i refer to my post:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367857#msg367857
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367108#msg367108

Did the High Court Prejudice Dr Vincent Tabak before his trial!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on December 05, 2016, 03:34:29 PM
he did that to himself by saying he was guilty!

It would be a completely different scenario of all you had written was said and done and he yet he remained tight lipped and claiming to be innocent but he didn't...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 03:46:47 PM
A Fair Trail needs to have the following apply... (evidence about the stability of his confession could be possibly found in the 1300 page document)....

Again 1300 pages of documentation that the defence didn't get till the day of trial, was reason enough.... If they had the time to cross reference all the time lines I'm sure it would have shown he didn't have the time...

Quote
Quote
12. Examples of material that might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the prosecution case or of assisting the case for the accused are:

1  Any material casting doubt upon the accuracy of any prosecution evidence.
 
2  Any material which may point to another person, whether charged or not (including a co-accused) having involvement in the commission of the offence.

3 Any material which may cast doubt upon the reliability of a confession.

4 Any material that might go to the credibility of a prosecution witness.

5 Any material that might support a defence that is either raised by the defence or apparent from the prosecution papers.

6 Any material which may have a bearing on the admissibility of any prosecution evidence.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367108#msg367108


Quote
How could he possibly do a google search at 1:46am  and again at 1:47am when he was seen leaving in Tanja's  hatchback at 1:38am???

I'm sure it would have taken him more than 8 mins to get Tanja, A google map search of Canygne Rd to Park Street , gives a driving time of 6 mins....

he got lost for at least 2 minutes ,Then he rang her for directions... so we now have 0 minutes to find where Tanaj is.... Pick her up go for a burger eat it in the car and drive home....
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367317#msg367317

Quote
He cannot have possibly used his computer at 1:46am or 1:47 am  to do 2 different searches as he wasn't even at home....

So that evidence alone that wasn't challenged, shows how inaccurate the prosecutions, computer searches were...

WHAT ... Other Evidence was contained within the 1300 page document that could have cast doubt about Dr Vincent Tabak's confession......
Quote
At I.38 am, 18 December, you were leaving again in the hatchback.
Is this to collect Tanja from the Coach?
Tabak: Yes.
 
Even if he was seen in the town centre and not at home at 1:38am , it still doesn't give him time to get home and use his computer... As the prosecution claim he did!!!!
http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

So that alone covers number (1)... (IMO)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 04:50:00 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
12. Examples of material that might reasonably be considered capable of undermining the prosecution case or of assisting the case for the accused are:

1  Any material casting doubt upon the accuracy of any prosecution evidence.
 
2  Any material which may point to another person, whether charged or not (including a co-accused) having involvement in the commission of the offence.

3 Any material which may cast doubt upon the reliability of a confession.

4 Any material that might go to the credibility of a prosecution witness.

5 Any material that might support a defence that is either raised by the defence or apparent from the prosecution papers.

6 Any material which may have a bearing on the admissibility of any prosecution evidence.


(1) The prosecution's evidence in the computer search that wasn't accurate ( he wasn't even at home when they said he did a search)

(2) The Shard of console and The piece of evidence handed into the Police that wasn't used...


(3) The defences own time lines and admission that Dr Vincent Tabak stayed in his Flat till 9:29pm and stating that one thing was for sure Joanna Yeates was killed between 9:00pm and 9:30pm

(4) Prosecution witness that changed their original statements that were available for people to read.... you could call it inconsistencies in statements...(IMO)

(5) Cj and Tanja's lack of appearnce in court could have explained lots.. Whether he had a bike bag for instance, whether CJ saw what he first apparently told police that people where at the gate and he thought one was Jo...

(6) The photographs of the forensice Tent That the police claim they didn't use to cover Joanna Yeates body......

Quote
13. It should also be borne in mind that while items of material viewed in isolation may not be reasonably considered to be capable of undermining the prosecution case or assisting the accused, several items together can have that effect.

Attorney Generals Guidelines.... http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/attorney_generals_guidelines_on_disclosure/


So with the 1300 pieces of evidence not seen until trial and the above...  How can it be fair!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 05, 2016, 05:30:23 PM
I can see that what Jixy says is right:  if someone pleads guilty, there normally wouldn't be a trial, unless the defendant has only partly pleaded guilty:  for example, VT, Peter Sutcliffe and Nathan Matthews all pleaded guilty to manslaughter, but not to murder,with which they had been charged,  so they all had trials.

I can only say that I feel very sorry for an innocent person who makes a false confession ---and many do.  Some do so because they have "special needs", some do so for other reasons  : duress, sleep deprivation while being held in prison, etc etc.  I think it very unsatisfactory that our legal system  takes no steps to check that the confession  is valid.  Sometimes, one only has to look at the timeline , and it is pretty obvious that they couldn't have done it, or somebody might have confessed to killing the victim in a car---when they don't even have a car. 

As far as I am aware, there was no plea of diminished responsibility in VT's case.

A number of things about his trial were very worrying though.  The defence being given a 1300 page document at the last minute is one of them.  As everybody knows by now, I am not happy about enhanced DNA (too often unreliable)  or computer evidence, which can be messed around with.

Jixy and John, what do you make of that document I put up detailing all the equipment needed to recover Jo's body??  Do you have any explanations why all those pumping tenders, a boat, etc might have been needed?  I am very puzzled by this, but then, I don't work for fire and rescue, and (fortunately) I have no experience of recovering bodies.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 05, 2016, 06:12:41 PM
I can see that what Jixy says is right:  if someone pleads guilty, there normally wouldn't be a trial, unless the defendant has only partly pleaded guilty:  for example, VT, Peter Sutcliffe and Nathan Matthews all pleaded guilty to manslaughter, but not to murder,with which they had been charged,  so they all had trials.


I understand what you and Jixy are saying mrswah, But.. Doesn't the fact he was going to trial make a difference as nothing had been proved .... It was basically a confession...

So the trial could have turned out completely differently.... As with the Attorney generals Guidelines


And the High Court new Dr Vincnet Tabak was going to trial... they say so....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on December 05, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
I understand what you and Jixy are saying mrswah, But.. Doesn't the fact he was going to trial make a difference as nothing had been proved .... It was basically a confession...

So the trial could have turned out completely differently.... As with the Attorney generals Guidelines

So is he going to appeal and are you going to advise his new council? What will be the grounds of his appeal? He gave a confession under duress?
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 06, 2016, 07:07:10 AM
Miss Taken Identity:  on page 26 of this thread, I have included a document giving information about all the fire and rescue equipment used to recover Joanna's body (which the jury and the public were told was found  by dog walkers).

Documents speak for themselves, but can you explain why so much equipment was needed?  A boat????   A crane????  All those pumping tenders????   Do you know anyone who works for the fire and rescue service who could explain this?


The document was obtained through a FOI request:  it was not revealed to the public (or the jury) , apart from a very  brief mention on ITN news and in the Daily Mail, and in the local Bristol papers.  Very few people have questioned it, although it casts doubt on where Jo's body was actually found.

You may ask why that matters, and somebody pointed out that it makes no difference to who murdered her.  If there is a valid reason why all that equipment was needed, fair enough.  If there isn't, it casts doubt on the story we have been told, and , depending on where the body was actually found, it could well suggest that more than one person dumped it. 

If we have not been given the true facts about where the body was found, what else haven't we been given the truth about?  The dog walkers, remember, did not actually appear in court and give their evidence under oath: their evidence was read out from a written statement.

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 08:55:24 AM
Miss Taken Identity:  on page 26 of this thread, I have included a document giving information about all the fire and rescue equipment used to recover Joanna's body (which the jury and the public were told was found  by dog walkers).

Documents speak for themselves, but can you explain why so much equipment was needed?  A boat????   A crane????  All those pumping tenders????   Do you know anyone who works for the fire and rescue service who could explain this?


The document was obtained through a FOI request:  it was not revealed to the public (or the jury) , apart from a very  brief mention on ITN news and in the Daily Mail, and in the local Bristol papers.  Very few people have questioned it, although it casts doubt on where Jo's body was actually found.

You may ask why that matters, and somebody pointed out that it makes no difference to who murdered her.  If there is a valid reason why all that equipment was needed, fair enough.  If there isn't, it casts doubt on the story we have been told, and , depending on where the body was actually found, it could well suggest that more than one person dumped it. 

If we have not been given the true facts about where the body was found, what else haven't we been given the truth about?  The dog walkers, remember, did not actually appear in court and give their evidence under oath: their evidence was read out from a written statement.
The link below is for the post mrswah made with the pdf of the fire brigade appliances that attended, not just on Christmas Day, but on several days later..???

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg366721#msg366721
Some of the fire brigade services where there as late as 9:45pm Why???????

Quote
The Avon Fire Service helped police remove the body, which was clothed and covered in snow, from the scene in order to preserve the site for a thorough forensic examination.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/joanna-yeates-police-satisfied-body-271510

Ah.... it was the site they were protecting??? Shouldn't it have been the Joanna Yeates first????
Surely.. it's the Police that protect the scene of crime .. not the fire brigade..
Jo was removed at 4:45pm and was taken away in an ambulance , before Dr Delaney has examined her at 6:00pm
Check my previous post:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367730#msg367730


But The official version is that they used a broom handle...

Broom handles were used.... but that was to search the verges not remove Joanna Yeates...

They must have needed the appliances to reach where she was.....
The body was thawing out... I refer to my post below:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367513;topicseen#msg367513

It highly unlikely that a body had lain in Longwood Road since 17th Dec 2010... It was an area frequented by many dog walkers, and I read about a woman who saw a white van as she came out from the opposite side of the road near the entrance.. (can't find the article)... Could also have seen it, if it was there...

The picture I have attached with two people speaking the the police officer, is quite odd... Who are they??
They can't be witness,s as they would keep anyone away from the crime scene....

The police, have avoided explaining the fire brigade appliance, and as with the forensic tent, to cover Joanna's body to protect the scene, they also deny using the forensic tent in court for the protection of Joanna Yeates...

So... if the forensic tent wasn't for the protection of Joanna Yeates... what was it covering up...
It must have been an important piece of evidence , if they used the tent to protect it...
But.... nothing was brought to trial regards what they were protecting under THAT Tent....

The tent would be used to protect the body from further injury, whilst being removed and the pathologist has had a chance to examine, when it is in situ....


There were 43 injuries , who knows which injuries where made whilst recovering the body from a possible place that wasn't easy to access...
Straps and harnesses were used as part of the equipment the fire brigade lists in the pdf..

The fire brigade where there before the Dr....
The body was also transported in an ambulance before the Dr. examined it....

How is that protecting the scene????

I was under the impression, that you secure the scene and that the Dr examines the body before it is removed.. Then the foresnsic team come in wearing white coveralls as to not contaminate any possible evidence there...

Police are just wandering about I don't think i've seen anyone in coveralls.. The amount of fire service personal at the scene will only add to contamination...

Plus the two strangers who are allowed just to hang about: picture 4

So anyone got an answer for this as mrswah has asked????

I think a thourgh examination of the PDF needs doing.... 8 apppliances uded

They attended the scene on no less than 4 occasions:

The 25th Dec 2010  with 27 crew members attending in total?? ( adds to contamination of scene)

The 27th Dec 2010  with  4 crew members attending

The 28th Dec 2010  with  4 crew members attending

The 29th Dec 2010  with  2 crew members attending

Why would the fire service need to attend the scene of a murder enquiry 4 different days???
what were they recovering?? cleaning up??
Why would they need them there on so many ocassions... And why was this not mentioned in court!!!


.

What's the big folder the guy in high viz holding and why would he need it at a crime scene??????

Picture 3


EDIT: 7:50pm  I think why I have a problem with the forensic, tent... Is....... I believe there's Two forensic Tents..... One to the left in the entrance of the quarry, and one slightly further up the road...





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 09:13:44 AM
So is he going to appeal and are you going to advise his new council? What will be the grounds of his appeal? He gave a confession under duress?

I don't know if he's going to appeal Miss Taken Identity... I think he should, I have nothing to do with advising anyones council, I'm just a forum user like yourself..

I believe that the constant moving of Dr Vincent tabak to 3 prisons in less than 48 hours is duress... he wouldn't have had his counsel available to him.. and when he appeared from Long Lartin by video link... his defence was in Bristol.... I think they made him feel like he didn't know his arse from is elbow.. Constant pressure on him proving that they had the control....

He also appear via video link at the old Bailey.. WHY the Old Bailey.. I have no answer for that.. but it must have completeley isolated him from council, family and friends..

All this and they never applied for Bail!!

He had two different Lawyers and I'm not sure if Cook was the duty solicitor who saw him when he was first arrested..( so it could be 3)....

His inability to read correctly or see correctly , must also have added to the difficulties he was facing.. as they had taken away his own glasses.. Which must have been prescription as he wore them all the time..

I think the original evidence they charged him with was not what they ended up in court with.. And i think they desperatley needed a confession, as the evidence would not stand up in court. (IMO)

I believe that this case needs a proper investigation, all the fire brigade appliances used, never explained..

And I so would love to see that 1300 page document that has the timelines in.... which the defence got dropped on them on the day of trial..

There are so many questions.. not answered in this case, and the lack of WITNESS'S in court only add to the mystery...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 10:30:47 AM
 What was missing from court:....

(1)   The 8 Fire Brigade Appliances that were used

(2)   The piece of significant evidence handed into Police..

(3)    The forensic pictures showing how they used broom handles to move Joanna Yeates.

(4)    The Priest that talked to Joanna Yeates  near her home on the 17th Dec 2010

(5)    The sobbing girl, that had supposedly given Dr Vincent Tabak's name

(6)    CJ who had seen people at the small gate, who could have answered many questions..

(7)    Tanja Morson, Dr Vincent Tabak,s girlfriend.. who could have confirmed or denied any of the scenarios put             
        forward.
(8)    The Prosecution's full disclosure till day of trial (1300 pages)

(9)   The witness's that discovered Joanna yeates body on Longwood Lane..

(10) Kingdom who lived around the back of Jo yeates and heard someone scream "help me on Saturday 18th Dec
       2010 around mid morning...
(11) Any character witness's for Dr Vincent Tabak.

(12)  A psycharist with a report on Dr Vincent Tabak mental health whilst incarcarated..

(13)  An explanation of the shard of console found at crime scene... Who did the console belong too?

(14)  Time Stamps on the Asda video, to show exactly when Dr Vincent Tabak, was at Asda,..

(15)  An actuall application for Bail

(16)  Video putting Dr Vincent Tabak at the scene of crime..

(17)  Witness's putting Dr Vincent Tabak at the scene of crime.

(18)  DNA evidence of Dr Vincent Tabak in Joanna Yeates Flat

(19)  DNA evidence of Joanna Yeates in Dr Vincent Tabak's flat

(20)  An Explanation on how Joanna yeates ear ring ended up inside the bed covers

(21)  Photographs of the scene when the police first arrived on the 17th Dec 2010

(22)  An expert who could demonstrate the difficulties one person would have moving a dead weight several times

(22)  The lack of body fluids at Joanna Yeates flat..

(23)  The Lack of body fluids at Dr Vincent Tabaks flat.. (she was supposed to be there for 1Hour, before he went to asda) Or inside the car boot... (one loses bowel and bladder control)
       
(25)  Detailed analysis of the 1300 page document

(26)  Solid DNA profile of Dr Vincent Tabak on Joanna Yeates (partial doesn't prove anything)

(27)  A proper cross examination of witness's at the stand... ( statements where inconsistant)

(28)  An explanation to how Andrew Mott had to try stop a body from thawing after it was found and was supposed   
        frozen solid since being there from the 17th Dec 2010 and why it took 9 hours for Dr Delaney to see her...

(29)  Finger nail scrapping, that might have revealed who attacked her

(30)  Any medical records as to why Joanna Yeates had taken time from work days before the 17th Dec.. (could
        have explained why it didn't take long to strangle her)

(31) A demonstration of how easy or hard it would be to lift a body inside a bicycle bag/cover into the boot of a car.
       and would it fit into a bicycle bag?

(31)  Defence picking up on inaccurate statement regarding searches... when on the early search... Dr Vincent
        Tabak, could not have been at home to make the 2 searches.. (he left 1:38am) (searches done 1:46am and
        1:47am)  Dr Vincent Tabak was picking Tanja up at the time..

(32)  An explanation as to why the defence new Joanna yeates had died between 9:00pm and 9:30pm.. and the
        defence had already put Dr Vincent Tabak at home until 9:29pm

(33)  How the Defence didn't pick up on the fact the prosecution allowed the jury to add a word to there document..
        Changing the defintion of the search Dr Vincent Tabak supposedly did.

(34)   The High courts Document of 27th July 2011, stating that Dr Vincent Tabak was guilty of the murder, before
          he had been tried..

(35)   The Drive times it would have taken Dr Vincent Tabak to complete various journeys..

(36)   Witness statements from the fire brigade as to what the scene was like when they attended and why it took
          4 hours for then to be called..

(37)    A proper explanation as to why is was a sexually motivated attack, when no signs of a sexual assault
          existed.

(38)   A demonstration at Joanna Yeates Flat of how the body was moved from room to room, then next door to
         Dr Vincent Tabak Flat , then put in a Bicycle bag and then into a car boot..,.. No timings of this event took
         place to see if it was even possible..( needed lifting ..No drag marks visible)

(39)   The CCTV from Clifton Suspension Bridge, the Police had used to speak to one witness/suspect

(40)   Bank records of Dr Vincent Tabaks apparent purchasing of call girls

(41)   The American prostitute, who claimed Dr Vincent Tabak tried to use chloroform on her in a sex game (
          would show his sexual proclivaties ....) was there proof of purchase of chloroform.. was any used on Jo Yeates??
(42)   Any female person whom Dr Vincent Tabak had come onto in the past..(advances denied)

(43)    The Morson family and there relationship with Dr Vincent Tabak.

(44)    The questioning of why Joanna Yeates phone still worked on Sunday 19th Dec 9:00pm when it had been used
          all day friday and people had tried to contact her on several occasions.( could mean she died on a different
          day)..
(45)    The finger prints missing from the TV Dr Vincent Tabak, supposedly turned off..

(46)    The finger prints missing from the oven that Dr Vincent Tabak supposedly turned off

(47)    Any finger prints of Dr Vincent Tabak anywhere in the flat..

(48)    Joanna Yeates black handbag she is seen carrying..

(49)    Greg being asked if he left Bernard the cat inside the house

(50)    How Joanna Yeates Travelled to work that morning, we know she walked back... did they walk as a rule?? or did they drive to work??

I could go on and on... But you get the picture....

"
Oh yes... one more.... "PICTURES of what was inside the FORENSIC TENT if Joanna Yeates wasn't!!!!!

I've now found out there's two Tents??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8858241/Prostitute-claims-Joanna-Yeatess-killer-Vincent-Tabak-tried-to-strangle-her.html


There's Andrew mrswah... number 28!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 03:55:25 PM
Well this is NEWS to me.........

Quote
After the murder conviction and Mr Tabak’s unsuccessful appeal, he was summonsed to Court to face the child pornography charges. After denying it, he pleaded guilty on 2nd March 2015 and was sentenced to 10 months.

http://ukcriminallawblog.com/vincent-tabak-jailed-for-child-pornography/

WHAT APPEAL !!  did he ever appeal..... I don't know that he did!!
Quote
What was his defence?

We don’t know. There was legal argument as to whether he could have a fair trial, and after the Judge ruled that he could, the guilty pleas were entered.

Where the images pseudo, there where 4 computers and a hard drive they got the info from... where they Dr Vincent Tabak images?

Quote
In any event, the protection regime will almost certainly be completely different when Mr Tabak comes to be released (if he ever is). So, I am not completely convinced by the argument. Although it could be said that there is no harm in prosecuting him, this whole procedure will have cost more than 5 figures (it’s always difficult to judge). At a time when cases are not being properly pursued because of a lack of resources, a decision to prosecute impacts on other cases and means (sadly) that other victims of crime don’t get the justice they deserve. Is that a price worth paying?

TAGSVINCENT TABAK


Quote
This case is not quite in the same category as Garry Glitter last week, and the finding of the Judge is certainly not a surprise. The case of Stuart Hall does show that juries are pretty robust, more so that I would have imagined (so I may be being unduly cautious, but this is an area that would benefit from some further research.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 04:21:50 PM
A little thought.... if the Judge agreed with the jury and  decided that Dr Vincent Tabak had indeed attacked Joanna Yeates, with the supposed PROOF that it was sexually motivated...

Why didn't he give him a miniumum tariff of 30 years???

Quote
." Tabak must now serve a minimum of 20 years in prison, some may feel that this is not long enough.  The Criminal Justice Act 2003 allows a minimum term of 30 years to be set if it can be established that sexual or sadistic conduct was involved in an offence.

http://www.lawmentor.co.uk/blog/2011/10/29/just-verdict-vincent-tabak/

Quote from The Judge:
Quote
The Judge said "I think there was a sexual element to this killing.... In my view you are very dangerous.In my opinion you are thoroughly deceitful, dishonest and manipulative

http://lawpages.co.uk/court-cases/Vincent-Tabak-7570-1.law

The sexual Intent was needed to prove that Dr Vincent Tabak committed murder and not manslaughter:

So why did the judge not give him the minimum tarriff of 30 years....???????

Was it established that it was sexually motivated???

Or should Dr Vincent Tabak been inprisoned for Manslaughter???
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 05:47:37 PM
I have a real conumdrum: (The Cider inside Joanna Yeates Flat....)

The cider that is shown in the pictures below is a specialised cider, and I wouldn't presume whether Bargain Booze had speciality beers in their store at that time:

Here's my problem: when I do a search on specified dates between 17/12/2010 and 31/12/2010  there are no results available to purchase the beer... Or buy online for a store such as Bargain Booze..

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=healeys+cider&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A17%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A25%2F12%2F2010&tbm=

And when I change my search to include and up to the date Dr Vincent Tabak went to trial: Range from 17/12/2010 to 17/10/2011 I get this:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=healeys+cider&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A17%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A17%2F10%2F2011&tbm=


10th January 2011 being the first search available about healeys..

Healeys Farm home page has a date of 2012 at the bottom so I don't know when they started selling cider online, but it cannot be those dates above in 2010:

The only way to get Healeys Cider before those dates I think is to purchase it from the Farm shop in cornwall:
A trip to Cornwall is needed.. (IMO)

So is the Healeys cider in the Jury photo's what was purchased:

Or DID the perpetrator leave it  behind and what did the reciept from Bargain Booze show as regards the type of cider purchased...

Or was that reciept not available????

Did the Jury see the Bargain Booze reciept??


Did they check to see if Dr Vincent Tabak had every had Healey's Cider at home??

She kept her receipt from Tesco, so where's the Bargain Booze reciept!!

The above is confusing... can anyone shed any light on when Healeys sold to supermarkets and if Bargain Booze did at the time... Also what happened to the Reciept from Bargain Booze....



If this search I've done is correct and Healeys did not supply to Bargain Booze at the time in 2010..

Would this be classed as new evidence for COURT!!!


Search i did today at Bargain Booze online: http://www.bargainbooze.co.uk/catalogsearch/result?q=healeys

http://www.bargainbooze.co.uk/catalogsearch/result?q=healey%27s+cider+


I would have thought a store that sells beer at Bargain Prices would not have speciality beers on offer (IMO)

https://thecornishcyderfarm.co.uk/hello-world/


The video that is available of Joanna Yeates doesn't show what cider she purchased, But I believe the Jury saw her purchase cider as she went back to get the second bottle.. ( Don't know if they noted the type of cider it was?)


I may be being a bit uneducated about cider, But, why is there a wine cork bottle top there when the bottle looks like it has a screw lid?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 06, 2016, 07:48:04 PM
This is my post above about the Cider bottle and whether or not you could buy it from Bargain Booze at the time..

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg368125#msg368125

But then the CORK in the picture caught my eye so i investigated what it was:

If you look at the attached pictures you can see it is a CHAMPAGNE BOTTLE CORK!!!

TATTINGER REIMS.........

No mention of Champagne was ever mentioned in court...


Or That Joanna Yeates Had drunk Champagne that night......

EDIT:  Greg Reardon had removed all of his possesions from the flat before the Jury had seen it... So if the cork was anything to do with the two of them, he would have kept it for sentimental reasons....

( No sudden excuse now.... On the reason why the champagne cork is on the table with the Healey's cider)!!

So.. who's cork was it??

SURELY NOW PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE!!!!

I can only use what is available for anyone to investigate.... New Evidence... New Trial

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=joanna+yeates+flat++the+cider+on+the+table&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje_dbHpuDQAhUGBsAKHbeNBloQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=hbo9IaizNqYnjM%3A

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/gallery-inside-the-home-of-tragic-joanna-1084171


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 06, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
Nine

I am pretty sure VT never appealed-----if he did, the public didn't hear about it.

Many of the accounts we read in the media are not accurate---don't you remember the report that said VT and Tanja had split up before Jo's murder?  Next thing , he is off to spend Christmas and New Year with her, so obviously not accurate.

They could not prove that he had committed a sex offence.  The pathologist did not think Jo had been sexually assaulted, although he did not rule it out.  I believe the prosecution wanted to make it look like a sex offence though, and they wanted to introduce all that "bad character evidence" at the trial,  but the judge would not allow it.

The prosecution  wanted to make the jury believe it was a sex offence, IMO, because-------they did not have a motive.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 09:47:36 AM
I'll refer back to my post about the Healeys Classic reserve Cyder:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg368125#msg368125

It doesn't come in 330ml bottles..

I've found a reference that she bought two 330ml bottles of cider:

http://www.regionalpressawards.org.uk/userfiles/files/Winners2011/entries-201100090-00400.pdf

Quote
ONE of the shops
that Joanna Yeates
stopped at on her
journey home has
changed its name.
Bargain Booze in
Clifton Village,
where Miss Yeates
bought two 330ml
bottles of cider on her
way back to her flatin
Canynge Road, has
reverted to its previous
name and sign –
Baryah’s.

So the question is ... where did the HEALEYS Cider come from... The Healeys Classic Reserve doesn't come in that smaller sized bottle!!!

Lets not forget the TATTINGER REIMS champagne cork either...

New questions must arise from the fact that the Cider is not what she bought from Bargain Booze!!!

And the way she held her Black Bag.. Maybe the Champagne was inside it.....

I'm sure I remember her mum saying at court when they saw Jo in bargain booze she was looking at her phone.. (I thought she must have got a message).. And went back and bought another bottle of cider.


Healey's  Classic Reserve come in 750ml bottle.......

So....... WHERE DID THE CIDER COME FROM!!!!!


I am more than positive Dr Vincent Tabak, didn't turn up with a Bottle of Healey's Cider and a Bottle of Tattinger Champagne!!!

The Cider Bottle is sat on the table in the alcove...(cork next to it)....

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 07, 2016, 11:43:33 AM
How do we know what Jo bought in Bargain Booze------never heard anything about a receipt, only one for the pizza.

Or did Greg, on returning from Sheffield, see the cider in the kitchen (we know he saw it and finished the open bottle),  and  when it was revealed that there was  CCTV of Jo in Bargain Booze, he, Jo's parents and the police assumed that was what she had bought there?  After all, the shop assistant in Bargain Booze did not remember serving Jo. He/she was asked.

No evidence as to what she bought there, as far as I can see, only that she went there.

Presumably, they had alcoholic drinks in their flat, as they were preparing for a party (weren't they???).  The person who might have known what was new, was Greg.  Or, perhaps he wouldn't have done:  my hubby  hasn't a clue what drinks I have bought in for Christmas!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 11:52:38 AM
I just wanted to add a clearer picture of the front room:


You can see the bottle of cider on the table clearer...
It's on the left hand side of the table in the alcove...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 11:56:30 AM
How do we know what Jo bought in Bargain Booze------never heard anything about a receipt, only one for the pizza.

Or did Greg, on returning from Sheffield, see the cider in the kitchen (we know he saw it and finished the open bottle),  and  when it was revealed that there was  CCTV of Jo in Bargain Booze, he, Jo's parents and the police assumed that was what she had bought there?  After all, the shop assistant in Bargain Booze did not remember serving Jo. He/she was asked.

No evidence as to what she bought there, as far as I can see, only that she went there.

Presumably, they had alcoholic drinks in their flat, as they were preparing for a party (weren't they???).  The person who might have known what was new, was Greg.  Or, perhaps he wouldn't have done:  my hubby  hasn't a clue what drinks I have bought in for Christmas!!


I'll try find the video with her mum saying that Jo had bought one bottle of cider , looked at her phone then went to get another bottle of cider....

There are reports of her buying two 330ml bottle of cider from Bargain booze...

The reports said that Greg finished the bottle of cider she had opened....
You think the Police would have noticed the cider was not the correct one...

And why leave a champagne Cork next to it on the table??? never mentioned in evidence.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 12:09:47 PM
Quote
Having imbibed in several
alcoholic drinks there, she decided at 8.00 pm to go home and proceeded to walk home in the snow,
15
stopping at one shop to buy two bottles of cider and at another shop to buy one ready-prepared and
uncooked pizza.

Quote
. He saw two bottles of cider, one partly used. He drank the remains of the
48
partly used cider and he too, like Vincent Tabak, said that he ate a supper of pizza, from their
freezer.

Quote
Miss Yeates body discovered 3 miles away
On Friday 17 December 2010, as Greg Reardon left for Sheffield after work, Miss Yeates went to
The Bristol Ram, a public house near her place of work, in order to socialise and have some drinks
with people she knew. She always did that every Friday evening after work. Having imbibed in
several drinks of cider there, she decided at 20.00 hours to go home and proceeded to walk home,
stopping en route to buy two bottles of cider and one uncooked, ready-made cheese and tomato
pizza. She is alleged to have been seen by a vicar on her way home in the snow, Father George

Quote
Apartment 1 on Sunday, 19 December 2010 in the evening at 8.00 pm. As Miss Yeates was not at
home he waited, drank a half-empty bottle of cider he saw in the kitchen


http://philpapers.org/archive/RAMTMT-4.pdf


the above quotes are from the trial.... Sally Ramage papers....

She definetley bought two bottles of cider... and I don't think it was Healey's Cider!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8228350/Joanna-Yeates-murder-architect-stopped-at-shop-to-buy-alcohol-on-night-she-disappeared.html

Quote
The 25-year-old architect went into Bargain Booze on Bristol's Regent Street - just a few metres
from the Tesco Express where she bought the pizza - and purchased some cider.


Quote
The two bottles of cider

The stories you need to read, in one handy email
 Read more

Yeates also bought two bottles of cider on her way home. This led to speculation she had bought one for her and one for a guest she was expecting.

The explanation: CCTV footage of Yeates in the off-licence was shown in court. She picked up one bottle of cider, stepped away, then returned and grabbed a second, suggesting it had been a spontaneous purchase and was for her. According to the defence, Yeates opened one of the bottles and may have taken a sip from it before she was killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/28/joanna-yeates-murder-mysteries-explained

Quote
Police hunting for the killer of Joanna Yeates have revealed that the architect had purchased two bottles of cider on the night she disappeared and left one in her flat half-finished.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8229368/Joanna-Yeates-left-half-drunk-cider-bottle-when-she-disappeared.html

Quote
Did Joanna Yeates buy cider for her killer? Half-drunk bottle could provide vital clue in police hunt for murderer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342172/Did-Joanna-Yeates-buy-cider-killer-Bottle-clue-police-hunt.html#ixzz4S9c0ACQh

Quote
Security images from the Bargain Booze store in Clifton show her buying the 330ml bottles for around £4 before heading home.


Think that covers the cider purchase ......

Also it's mentioned in the video: Murder at christmas part one...
Quote
`stopping first at Waitrose ,But doesn't buy anything...She pops into a shop to buy two Bottles of cider..
From 8:00 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5I4eOKIBs

I thought everyone knew she bought the Cider from BargainBooze!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 08:28:28 PM
why are there two Forensic tents...?

One to the opening to the left and one further up?

The first picture is the second tent...

On The picture that looks slightly foggy, You can just see it's outline and what looks like its diagonal pole:
Between the guy stood up in Black and the vehicle to the right of the picture, you can just make out the second tent:


Anyone notice the lack of snow?

So which one didn't cover Joanna Yeates???

Anyone got any ideas what that silver frame thing is to the right and just in front of the tent?

Or is there 3?..... The first picture is definetley what looks like a wall, but that is on the opposite side of the road, the  picture is taken, going up...  But where the tents are on the left, there is no wall...It's fencing!

It gets weirder ...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 07, 2016, 09:14:59 PM
Extra tent to the right.....

Why so many Tents???

If the Tent to the right is where Joanna Yeates was found, why didn't someone see her sooner?

Is there an opening close to there ??

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 10:16:59 AM
I found this quote from a user called Tiddly Dee

Quote
Oh, and who was a witness to the images of children apparently found on his computer? Why haven’t the children been identified? Why haven’t Tabak’s associates been identified???? Ann Reddrop was involved in this, and she knew it was important to identify the children—she did an excellent job over the “Little Ted ” nursery case.
https://innocent.org.uk/2016/01/11/anthony-steele/

Has a good article about a man wrongly convicted:

Good question she raises... why where the children in the supposed photo's not identified.. Again the prosecution, got a guilty plea without having to fight a case...

That says more to me about Dr Vincent Tabak than anything... sounds like he's crushed, cannot fight a system that has already proven what it can do...

In this day and age where child abuse is at a high, I believe the Crown should be concentrating on getting people behind bars who are the real perv's.. whilst wasting money on Dr Vincent Tabak, to take him to court, where the
only purpose I could see was to bolster what I believe, is the original.. conviction..

There are no children under protection from this prosecution, because i believe that the pics were probably pseudo, they could have been as innocent as his nephews and neices running naked on a beach..

There are families out there who need the support of the police and services to protect them, and they waste money on a case with no real foundation....

There's limited funds for real prosecutions...And more and more keep coming to the attention of the police and media... Give them the money to prosecute there tormentors.... And not wasting it on charges that were only there for the prosecution to convince themselves they had the rightman....

The prosecution seem to be waving a flag, saying...See we told you he was a bad man, without any real concequences.. (it has achieved nothing)..

He was given 10 months, he won't be on any register.. He will go back to Holland.....

So what did they achieve? Only to keep in the mind of people that they supposedly convicted the right man for the murder of poor Joanna Yeates....



Maybe when he puts his head above the paripits and possibly says he wants to fight his conviction, someone comes alone with a big stick and shuts him up..(IMO)...

Because many of you have found it strange that he hasn't launched an appeal even if you haven't agreed with what I have said...

It is ODD that he hasn't launched an appeal, or anyone hearing ANYTHING about Dr Vincent Tabak....

That's sounds to me just like his application for Bail... There not gonna let him do it..(IMO)....

Look how they made CJ look when they wanted him to be the murderer.... plenty of people in the country believed what was said...

Why do you think they never let CJ off the hook immediately after Dr Vincent Tabak's arrest??





Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 10:39:57 AM
I found out WHY CJ wasn't let off the hook immediateley after Dr Vincent Tabak's arrest...

After I watched.......

 Judge Rinders Crime channel on Jo Yeates...  CJ explained why he was not freed  from the bail ......

In CJ's own words.....

 Around 39:25 mins of the Programme CJ says:

Quote
Under Suspicion.. Now I gather that one of the reasons for the delay was that Vincent Tabak when he was arreated.... refused to say anything...And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak

I had always wondered why CJ hadn't been cleared when they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak.... They still believed CJ had done it!!!

There was obviously no real investigation into what happened to Joanna Yeates, they decided early on it had to be someone in that building... Anyone in that building....

So lets say instead... That Joanna Yeates let Dr Vincent Tabak into the flat instead...(Why on earth would she do that!!!)

They probably believed it would have needed two people to move the body from the flat as there were no drag marks... (IMO)
They probably believed that CJ had to let him in with his keys... (IMO)


What on earth did they use to CHARGE him with then???? because this was before the confession, and in CJ's words they thought he'd helped!!!!


So we then have the Chaplain's so called confession and as far as I am aware the Chaplain did not testify to the fact that Dr Vincent Tabak confessed he'd killed Joanna Yeates...

At 38:25 mins the police officer says...

Quote
In February 2011, he disclosed to a prison chaplain erm... that he had killed Joanna and that he was going to admit it in court

So why did it take till March to release CJ finally!!!!

But at 33:32 mins: The Officer in charge of the casse says:

Quote
It was around the 20th January that erm.... we positively identified, that there were components, in mixed DNA of Vincent Tabak

Components?????? So it wasn't a full DNA match....!!!! (what the hell are components when they are at home..)

 The Police then describe him as : At 35:05 mins

 
Quote
Vincent Tabak was a professional guy ..Well educated over in the Netherlands... He had no police convictions....Very placid individual to deal with..

Easy target then..(IMO)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4htq8y


EDIT:....

The Police are basically saying that they had no real evidence on Dr Vincent Tabak, because the DNA, were Components of Dr Vincent Tabak, and not a full profile(Said in the polices own words..)

The still believed that CJ had something to do with it... The  supposed CONFESSION was all they had to use..... And needed to find anything they could misconstrue into supposed evidence (IMO)...

So why didn't they give him Bail??

Because up until the confession, they had nothing......

And in the polices own words... he was PLACID.... (is it an acronym ?)

P: Prosecution

L: Like

A: Alienating

C: Civilians

I: In

D: Detention...... In my opinion

The police always described him as a monster before!!!




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 12:56:43 PM
Had the Police ever thought that maybe Joanna Yeates actually left the building with someone she possibly new?

Or someone who convinced her to leave the building for a reason??

It would have been just as easy for someone to kill her else where and put her things back into the flat...

Did Greg ever say that both door locks were locked??

I don't remember him ever saying that...
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 08, 2016, 01:44:57 PM
I have just watched that video---hadn't heard of that series before.

I always understood that they kept Chris Jefferies on bail for so long because they had found a pair of trainers with a bloodstain on them while searching his flat, and so they didn't release him from bail until forensic tests had been done on these trainers, and come back clear.

I suspected that they were hedging their bets, though:  they were not sure whether or not he was involved with VT, and also they had someone to fall back on, had they not been able to get anywhere with VT.  That is my opinion, but then I am a cynic.

A placid murderer, eh.  Would make a good title for a book about VT.  I have not heard this description of him by a police officer before.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 08, 2016, 01:56:16 PM
The police must have wondered whether Joanna left the flat with somebody she knew, as Chris Jefferies had told them that he saw and heard two or three people, one of whom might have been Joanna, leaving the building.

So, they must have thought about it.  The police would have been open to all possibilities:  they would not have been so naive as to think that, because Joanna's essential belongings were left in the flat, then she MUST have been killed in her flat. They must also have been perfectly aware that there was no trace of VT in her flat.

However, VT signed a statement saying that he killed her in her flat, and he pleaded guilty to manslaughter, so they didn't have to think about this aspect of the case any more.  That made their job a lot easier, and let's face it, very few people have asked questions, making it easier still.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 02:09:22 PM
Just cross referencing the statements made about Dr Vincent Tabak:

CrimeWatch story part 2 Andrew Mott Forensic Coordinator: says at 5:05 mins

Quote
IN the boot of the car, we were able to find minute traces of blood that was erm.. That was a match to Joanna Yeates

Judge Rinder program Joanna Yeates: At 36:25 mins The Policeman in charge says:

Quote
When we examined the boot of the car a spot of blood was identified on the rubber seal....... around by the boot, came back as being 1 in a billion belonging to Joanna Yeates


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4htq8y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDtLjPfdw0


A few interesting points there:

Quote
Officers who worked at the spot in Longwood Lane, Failand, where the body of
Jo was left are banned from Canynge Road, Clifton, where she lived.

A separate team has been operating at her flat to keep any forensic evidence
intact.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/300493/jo-crucial-clue-found/

Andrew Mott!!! the same Andrew Mott... whom:

Quote
Andrew Mott, a forensic officer who reached the scene after police arrived shortly after 9am, told how he tried to prevent Miss Yeates's body thawing out.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/277423/Killer-weeps-over-images-of-Jo-body

It was either a minute trace of Joanna Yeates blood......

OR..... A spot????  Can they not make their minds up...

Did Andrew Mott conduct the test on Dr Vincent Tabak's car??? 

Remember the police said they were keeping the too scenes seperate??

Was it in the BOOT as Andrew Mott infers??? or have we changed to the RUBBER SEAL????



Is....... ERM... an offical term????

Question:  How Did Andrew Mott go from being just a Forensic Officer to A Forensic Coordinator????


EDIT:  Why is it that when ever I try to find out what Andrew Mott has to say the only comment you get is

Quote
Forensic officer Andrew Mott, who reached the scene after police arrived shortly after 9am, told how he tried to prevent Miss Yeates’s body thawing out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/10/14/killer-vincent-tabak-cove_n_1010686.html

You would think as the Forensic Co-ordinator, he would of had a much bigger role in COURT!!!

Extremely perplexing... And being at two different Events (IMO)




EDIT:
Quote
Follow
 
Rupert Evelyn
‏@rupertevelyn
Forensic Scientist still giving evidence. Confirming blood in boot of Tabak's car came from Joanna Yeates.
3:38 AM - 18 Oct 2011

So not on the rubber seal then!!

From the trial Twitter:

So... not Andrew Mott then?????


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 03:30:47 PM
Was gonna EDIT:

But decided to reply instead:

Andrew Mott.... The illusive Andrew Mott.....

Quote
Senior investigating officer Andrew Mott, of Avon and Somerset Police, said: "This was a desperately sad case in which a young person's life was cut tragically short.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/teenager-jailed-life-murdering-18-year-old/story-27909364-detail/story.html

Quote
1 - Crown Court Commendation – Melanie Road investigation team

Detective Chief Inspector Julie Mackay, Case Review Criminal Investigation Officer Gary Mason and civilian Senior Investigating Officer Andrew Mott were recognised for their relentless pursuit of justice for Melanie’s family.

https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/newsroom/commitment-and-tenacity-celebrated-at-force-awards-ceremony/

Is this the same Andrew Mott... Forensic Co-ordinator?????


Quote
Andrew Mott, a forensic officer who reached the scene after police arrived shortly after 9am, told how he tried to prevent Miss Yeates's body thawing out.

Tabak's QC, William Clegg, questioned why photographs were not taken of a broom being used to arrange straps underneath the body so her body could be taken away.

"I can't comment on why that was the case," Mr Mott said.

AFTER POLICE... that sounds like he's seperate from them!!! (sounds like he's with the pathology lab)..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34413947

Silly me I was under the impression that he was Some sort of Forensic Specialist???? Thought he'd come from the Pathologist lab...

But he's a Police officer...... Big difference!!!

What was he doing then trying to stop Joanna Yeates body from thawing out????

I thought that they put up a tent to preserve the scene of crime so that nobody touched the body... No cross contamination... Until Dr Delaney examined it???

But....  the reason they gave for not putting up a tent was to stop contamination... (are they barking!!)

Why was Andrew Mott allowed to be near the body of Joanna Yeates!!!! 



Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 04:16:29 PM
The quotes below are from Twitter, from Journalists who were in court Tweeting as it happened.....
At Dr Vincent Tabak's trial..


Quote
Follow
 
Rupert Evelyn
‏@rupertevelyn
Because of the snowy, icy conditions Mott was concerned about putting tent over the body in case it changed conditions surrounding body


He said it was Thawing.....
Temperatures inside the Forensic Tent wouldn't be any different as it was freezing outside!
He decided not to do it because of his knowledge in pathology..... that is so extensive...erm....

Quote
Follow
 
Rupert Evelyn
‏@rupertevelyn
Because of the conditions Mott says the recovery of the body was "always going to be problematic"
2:41 AM - 14 Oct 2011


Shouldn't the pathologist suggest how to move it?

Quote
Follow
 
Julia Reid
‏@juliareid5news
Mott says the body and ground were frozen. Defence asks about a broom handle used to help feed straps under the body.
2:42 AM - 14 Oct 2011


Hang on a minute.... I thought you said it was thawing??

Did they not free joanna Yeates body fully or did they yank with the straps....
They could have caused allsorts of problems with straps and broom handles..
Was it them whom ruffled Joanna Yeates clothes as they poked and prodded at her to release her from the frozen ground????

How did they actually remove Joanna Yeates body???

Quote
Follow
 
Julia Reid
‏@juliareid5news
Mr Mott says contamination of the frozen body with the broom handle was minimised.  #Vincenttabak  #Joannayeates
2:49 AM - 14 Oct 2011


Oh.... So there was contamination....

So they are saying they chipped away with broom handles to release Joanna yeates from where she had lain??


That doesn't sound very professional to me.... So why all the Fire engines
How many people where chipping away with broom handles??
The 27 Fire men they had there , Plus Andrew Mott... what are we talking????

Quote
Follow
 
Rupert Evelyn
‏@rupertevelyn
Def "you can't eliminate the real possibility there may have been contact" between broom and body? Mott agrees
2:49 AM - 14 Oct 2011

And  maybe you hit the wall with the broom handle?????

Quote
Follow
 
Rupert Evelyn
‏@rupertevelyn
Mott noted blood staining on the wall. #joyeates
2:29 AM - 14 Oct 2011


Was that after struggling with an unwieldly broom handle????



These above quotes are from Twitter: Just search and you can find them:


Again Andrew Mott......  Now why is it him who finds the blood on the wall when he was supposed to be protecting the body????????

If the body was thawing as he says... (we have loads of quotes of him saying that.)

Then him being any where near anything else could cause cross contamination....

He should have had one job, and one job only!!!!

Where was there...... At the second scene anywhere  for Andrew Mott to clean himself down and change into a new set of coveralls??? or anyone else involved in the removal??

Don't think there were any proper hand washing fascillaties available...

This the same Andrew Mott who mentions about Joanna yeates blood being inside the boot of the car...

Now call me cynical... But how is it that Andrew Mott finds the blood on the wall.... Is looking after Joanna Yeates because she's thawing.. and miraculously, talks about her blood in the boot of Dr Vincent Tabak's car!!!!!

Why 3 forensic Tents then??

The only pictures available of police officers with broom stick's are the ones searching the verge... The definetaley didn't have protective clothes on..... Did they share sticks????

So they managed to free Joanna Yeates with broom sticks before Dr Delaney examined her making sure no injuries had been caused with people in constant contact with her body.....

Oh what a tangled web we weave..........(IMO)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
Lets look at the blood on the wall......

Quote
Forensic scientist Tanya Nickson, who examined bloodstains found on a wall next to where Miss Yeates had been found on Christmas morning on Longwood Lane, in Failand, said the pattern indicated smearing rather than splattering.

Pattern indicated smearing:

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8834133/Vincent-Tabak-confessed-Joanna-Yeates-killing-in-emotional-meeting-with-prison-chaplain.html

Quote
Mr Lickley said blood stains were found on a wall close to where Miss Yeates's body was found,

Now is that a spot like before??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15257562

Quote
A smear of heavily clotted blood on the top of the wall had dripped downwards but there was no "blood splatter", suggesting that no assault took place in the vicinity.

Clotted Blood.....


http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/joanna-yeates-fought-killer/story-13538504-detail/story.html#vzuvXmTEMYGa7Y4I.99


So........ It was Tanya Nickson the FORENSIC SCIENTIST, who examined the blood stains on the wall..

Not the Forensic Co-ordinator Andrew Mott!! who was weilding a broom Handle...

They have varying descriptions of this stain???? which one was it??

I always wondered how Joanna Yeates continued to loose blood after being dead for so long??

She wasn't stabbed or shot.....

Wouldn't it have clotted by the time Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to have disposed of her there ????

She's been dead for Two hours at this point according to the prosecution....


Well who would have believed it... I can't find anything on Tanya Nickson...

I've done a range of dates from: 20th Dec 2008  to 6th Dec 2016...
 The only reference is this case of Joanna Yeates:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Tanya+Nickson+forensics+scientist&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F12%2F2016&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:20%2F12%2F2008%2Ccd_max:06%2F12%2F2016&q=Tanya+Nickson+forensics+scientist

Where are Tanya Nicksons credentials as a Forensic scientist???

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 07:19:04 PM
Just had another thought:

If Joanna yeates was covered in leaf debris, and that was frozen to her body, where was the Forensic Scientist, collecting any available evidence that could be used..

Before any Police Officers go near her......

Why do we go to Andrew Mott.... And his trusty Broom handle....

Shouldn't the Forensic scientist  have been assessing the scene of crime before Mr Plod waded in with his trusty broom handle...

He obviously had difficulty discerning the weather temperature and the effects on a frozen body...

No: I Know.....He used the power of the broom handle stuck up in the air to tell him which way the wind was blowing...

Shouldn't the forensic examiner, be carefully collecting evidence, layer by layer...

Next question: Did the forensic examiner use a Broom Handle!!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 08, 2016, 08:14:43 PM
Tanja Nickson:

Quote
On Tuesday, it was shown during the evidence of forensic scientist Tanya Nickson.
She had examined bloodstains found on a wall next to where Miss Yeates was found on Christmas morning in Failand, near Bristol.

Ms Nickson said the blood pattern indicated smearing rather than splattering - meaning it was unlikely that Miss Yeates had been assaulted there.
She told the court: "The presence of the blood on the top of the wall may indicate that an attempt was made to deposit the body over the top of the wall."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-england-bristol-15350510

Quote
The mortuary image was shown to Bristol Crown Court as part of the evidence presented by forensic scientist Tanya Nickson who examined blood satins found on the wall next to where Miss Yeates' body was found on Christmas Day last year.

Is that all this woman did... examine bloods stains on the wall!!!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vincent-tabak-joanna-yeates-parents-weep-cried-photo-shown-trail-latest-murder-miss-yeates-tabak-lat-233191
Quote
  As the image of 25-year-old Miss Yeates was shown, Teresa Yeates looked away and was comforted by her husband David.

The photograph - along with others - had been shown to the jury already on Friday, but Mr and Mrs Yeates were not in court.

Why would she need to show these images, as obviously Jo's parents had made sure that they were not present when they were first shown... How awful.....

Now: I thought the blood was found half way down the wall??

And has it been established as to what Tanja Nicksons qualifications are??

Why is she showing Mortuary images.... Is it to get the juries sympathy, whilst forgetting she has Joanna Yeates parents in front of her distraught...

Why did she feel the need to bolster the wall evidence by showing mortuary pictures????

Was she from the Mortuary???? Not as far as i can find her.....

Who is Tanja Nickson!!!!!!

This is quite worrying... It appear that they allowed an unqualified woman to explain Scentific Evidence, whilst also upsetting Joanna Yeates parents...

That cannot be right!!!

Edit:

I was thinking maybe I was being unkind to Tanja Nickson...
Maybe she works in some Lab somewhere...

Then I remembered she was given Mortuary photo's, which I cannot see how she would have had access too if she was just a Forensic Scientist.. who was not connected to the Mortuary for instance..

How DID she get those photographs???

Still not convinced she has any qualifications in relation to Forensic Science!! (IMO)
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 12:05:46 AM
More from Tanja Nickson: (Apologies in advance for the long post: But it's worth a read....)

Quote
Tanya Nickson, also a forensic scientist, said blood found on the wall next to where Miss Yeates' body was found was consistent with her being killed elsewhere, and could have been deposited in a failed attempt to push her over into a quarry below.

As Ms Nickson gave details of how Miss Yeates was found in a state of partial undress, the 25-year-old landscape architect's mother closed her eyes.

 http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/mum-s-tears-joanna-yeates-murder-trial/story-13598437-detail/story.html#gsVEvgIcbiMWo9zb.99

Quote
Forensic scientist Lindsay Lennen explained how she examined DNA samples taken from Miss Yeates's body, her clothes and from the boot of Tabak's Renault Megane car.


It gets so interesting:
Quote
It started as a missing person inquiry on December 18, 2010, says Lindsey Lennen, a body fluids and DNA specialist (who, like many forensic scientists, says the work is "all I ever wanted to do"). The team started by examining items from Joanna's home, looking for foreign DNA. Then on Christmas Day, Yeates was found dead, on a country road.

A colleague went down to supervise the removal of her clothing and preserve any body fluids: "The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jan/17/csi-oxford-lgc-forensics

Quote
oanna Yeates
It started as a missing person inquiry on December 18, 2010, says Lindsey Lennen, a body fluids and DNA specialist (who, like many forensic scientists, says the work is "all I ever wanted to do"). The team started by examining items from Joanna's home, looking for foreign DNA. Then on Christmas Day, Yeates was found dead, on a country road.

A colleague went down to supervise the removal of her clothing and preserve any body fluids: "The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

"Eventually, we found something," Lennen says. "On swabs and tapes from her breasts, and tapes from three areas of her jeans. There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

So the team deployed an LGC technique known as DNA SenCE, which purifies, concentrates and enhances otherwise unusable DNA: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."

With the killer's confession, Lennen's DNA evidence was not further tested. "It happens, in court," she says. "You get called biased, in the police's pay. You have to tell the truth, not stretch what you have. If you don't know which of two alternatives is more likely, you must say so."

http://www.theforensicforum.co.uk/Board/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa25c9141f14a6f81947f9e53125ed37&action=recent;start=70

So..... they went to see Dr Delaney and help him remove Joanna Yeates clothes????

The body was frozen????

Hang on a minute:..... Why are they removing the clothes of Joanna Yeates before her body had thawed???

Where they at the mortuary Or the second scene of crime???

OK.... How did they have the suspects clothes at the same time as Joanna yeates...
Because she says in the next breath:

Quote
Under the media glare, the work was flat out: clothing swabs, suspects clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours

WHAT... Now I'm sure on the :

Crimewatch The Full story Part 2 at 4:00 mins

Quote
Then shortly before the reconstruction was due to air.... They made a dramatic breakthrough...
Forensics Scientists had spent weeks enhancing the tiny DNA sample on Jo's body.. enabling them to now establish a link...To Vincent Tabak

So was it 48 hours or weeks????

How did they have anything from Dr Vincent Tabak at that time????

Oh yes... doesn't Cj say on the Rinder programe.. At 13:11

Quote
All the people who lived in 44, Canygne Road... were interviewed, statements were taken... So... my statement was taken along with everyone else...
DNA samples were taken, finger prints, were taken.... It was all entirely Voluntary..But obviously nobody had anything to hide....
So nobody was in the least bit concerned.. erm.... about co-operating in that way...


Well Well Well.......

So they had already taken DNA samples from the tenants and finger prints!!!!!

This would explain Lyndsey Lennons comment on turning the suspect and Joanna yeates DNA round in 48 hours..

NOW.... we have a question!!!

Why the SONG AND DANCE with going to Holland???

On Joanna yeates.. Crimewatch the full story part two:

The Police woman who went to hollland says.... This was Dec 31st 2010 when they went to Holland:

Quote
And.. Then his reluctance to give his  DNA at the end of the process.... Started to ring alarm bells


OK... we have:

(A): Lyndsey Lennon.. who states they had Joanna Yeates clothes and the suspects clothes to test at the same   
       time.....

(B): We Have CJ... who says that all the tenants gave statements, DNA and finger print samples...

(C): And the Police woman... who claimed that Dr Vincent Tabak was reluctant to give his DNA.....

Now it's not a trick question....
But which two statements fit together here???????

I'm going (A) and (B)..... any takers???

Lets go back to Lyndsey Lennens quote...

 
Quote
There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

There's that word again: COMPONENTS!!

There wasn't enough.. not enough quality..... because of the high levels of salt where the body had lain??

Come again: SALT...  Doesn't salt get rid of ICE!!! (YES.. the gritters had been out)..(always wonder why it never looked that snowy)

Why didn't anyone think about the gritters... they would have sprayed the verge and the road where Joanna Yeates body had lain, the body would have thawed, the body cannot have been there all that time??
Someone ..SURELY ..would have seen Joanna Yeates  if the gritters were out salting the road...

This is too confusing.... In The words of the experts:

So she frozen solid, frozen to the ground, whilst thawing with salt interfering with the quality of DNA available....

(oh my god... I've just fallen off my chair laughing at them... are they for real!!!)

Sorry for the long post... But crying out loud... what is this case saying!!!!!

Quote
Forensic scientist Lindsay Lennen explained how she examined DNA samples taken from Miss Yeates's body, her clothes and from the boot of Tabak's Renault Megane car.

Edit:
Quote
Officers who worked at the spot in Longwood Lane, Failand, where the body of
Jo was left are banned from Canynge Road, Clifton, where she lived.

A separate team has been operating at her flat to keep any forensic evidence
intact.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/300493/jo-crucial-clue-found/

What's the point of keeping the crime scenes seperate... If the foresenic expert is testing from both crime scenes?????

Had she been at two crime scenes...?? Remember she turned everything around in 48 hours??????

The Police said that they kept both crime scenes seperate!!!

From the same guardian piece:

Quote
Because the thing about DNA evidence, strong as it is, large as it looms in the public's imagination, is that it connects a human and an object. It doesn't prove when the two came into contact. Nor does it necessarily prove they were actually in direct contact at all.

There you go.......










Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 10:13:00 AM
Let carry on with Lyndey Lennen:

Quote
So the team deployed an LGC technique known as DNA SenCE, which purifies, concentrates and enhances otherwise unusable DNA: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."

Where have I heard that before?


Judge Rinder program Joanna Yeates: At 36:25 mins The Policeman in charge says:

Quote
When we examined the boot of the car a spot of blood was identified on the rubber seal....... around by the boot, came back as being 1 in a billion belonging to Joanna Yeates

Is this a standard answer?? Less than a Billion???


Did Lyndey Lennen Testify to the fact that Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA was less than a Billion to one chance of being anyone else???

Quote
With the killer's confession, Lennen's DNA evidence was not further tested. "It happens, in court," she says. "You get called biased, in the police's pay. You have to tell the truth, not stretch what you have. If you don't know which of two alternatives is more likely, you must say so."

Hello............

That statement is a none statement!!!   

Quote
With the killer's confession, Lennen's DNA evidence was not further tested.

Why Lyndsey Lennen, would you need to test Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA further???? I thought it was 1 in a Billion??

Or were you gonna make damn sure and test it so it said one in A Trillion Billion!!! (Erm....)

Ah..... Dr Vincent Tabak confessed...  I see..

So are you saying it really needed further testing???

But surely your statement of:

Quote
But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."

Now... Is that a fact that it was 1 in a billion match to Dr Vincent Tabak ..
Or... You could say???
Is 1 in a billion a number that sounds good???
Was the match to Dr Vincent Tabak 1 in a billion??? Because I think i remember you saying..

Quote
But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

So... degraded then...


You turned it around in 48 hours... Now I thought painstaking testing was done...
Sounds a bit rushed to me...

LGC Forensics have had problems in the past with cross contamination.... Is that with turning things around in 48 hours...???

 LGC Forensics whom in Oct 2011

Quote
Mr Scott was charged in 23 October 2011 after a plastic tray containing a sample of his DNA was re-used in the analysis of a swab from a rape victim in Plant Hill Park, Blackley. The result of that test linked him to the crime.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19782917

This massive case of Joanna Yeates was so important to turn around, did they just get sloppy...???
They had to change their standards after they were found to have contaminated evidence.. And this was after Dr Vincent Tabak's testing!!!!

What qualifications does Lyndsey Lennen have....

The reason I ask, is the in a Lab they could have anyone testing... Doesn't mean that they are qualified...

I've got an example of labs and no qualifications, where testing is done by any Tom Dick Or Harry that walks off the Unemployment line...

Quote
From me:
My son had been unemployed for a while and the local Mirco lab that tests food samples, were looking for staff..So he has no qualification to speak of... especially in science..But they employed him and he tested for Salmonella etc etc.... Now.... the thing that made me giggle was he had a white coat and a staff ID badge saying MICRO BIOLOGIST..... looked good... But he is no more a Micro biologist than I am Beyoncey!!

So are these people fully qualified FORENSIC SCIENTISTS or BEYONCEY?????????

Isn't it time these people explained themselves, instead of boasting in newspapers what there role was in the Joanna Yeates trial......

Another example from the LGC lab,... an interesting quote, that leaves me cold..

Quote
"KM screening," pronounces Caroline Sheriff, forensic scientist. "You drip the solution on to your filter paper, then hydrogen peroxide. If it goes pink, it indicates the presence of blood." Down the corridor, lengths of clear sticky tape are patted patiently on to a blouse, and removed again, lifting off fibres. A woman stares into a microscope. "Sperm heads, probably," Sheriff says.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jan/17/csi-oxford-lgc-forensics

A woman stares into a microscope "sperm heads, probably," Sheriff says.

Now... YOU are supposed to be a FORENSIC SCIENTIST!!!!! Do you not know what Sperm Heads look like under a microscope???

How many people at this Laboratory are fully qualified Forensic Scientists.. Or do they just do a bit of testing??




Titles always make it sound like you have qualifications coming out of your ears.... But the title doesn't mean that your qualified:

For Instance the job my friend does could be classed as:

An Off Turf Accountant....

Sounds quite qualified, sounds like she has it all going on upstairs:

ACCOUNTANT.... that word conjures up thoughts of Mathematics, problem solving, skill sets that have had years of education.....

But No ... I'm afraid to say... she's extremeley down to earth and doesn't call herself an.... OFF Turf Accountant...

She says" I'm A Till Tart  in A Bookies!!!!!





Again a range of dates for Lyndsey Lennen: 1st Aug 2008 to 7th Dec 2016 and guess what..... Nothing but the Joanna Yeates Trial..

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lyndsey+lennen%27s&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=962&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F08%2F2008%2Ccd_max%3A07%2F12%2F2016&tbm=


EDIT:
Quote
Ms Lennen also examined DNA samples taken from Miss Yeates's body, her clothes and from the boot of Tabak's Renault Megane car.


Maybe thats how Joanna Yeates blood got in the boot sample???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-england-bristol-15350510

Wouldn't it make more sense that one person tested Joanna Yeates Samples...

And another tested, Dr Vincent Tabak's items.....

Might stop cross contamination.....
Just a thought....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 12:02:17 PM
Lets look at components:

Quote
Quote
There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

We also have The Policemans statement of:

Quote
It was around the 20th January that erm.... we positively identified, that there were components, in mixed DNA of Vincent Tabak


Now which one is the most qualified to explain what components are???? And where you look for them????

Neither (IMO) As far as i'm aware , they were never asked what their qualifications were!!!!

Did Lyndsey Lennen explain to the jury what  components they found????

Quote
What are the components of DNA?
A:
QUICK ANSWER
DNA is a long molecule composed of two chains of smaller molecules called nucleotides, each which contain a region of nitrogen called the nitrogenous base, a carbon-based sugar molecule called deoxyribose and a region of phosphorus called the phosphate group. There are four types of nitrogenous bases: adenine (abbreviated as A), thymine (abbreviated as T), guanine (abbreviated as G) and cytosine (abbreviated as C).

Thats a difficult one to understand.....

So we have nucleotides:

Quote
What are the three components of a nucleotide?
The three components of a nucleotide are the nitrogenous base, the five-carbon sugar and the phosphate group. In turn, the nucleotides are the building components of both DNA and RNA.

Quote
The nitrogenous base molecules in DNA are the amino acids adenine, thymine, guanine and cytosine, while in RNA the guanine is replaced with uracil. The sugar molecules are different in the nucleotides of DNA and RNA; they are 2-deoxyribose and ribose, respectively. The final molecular component of the nucleotide is the phosphate group, or in some cases up to three phosphate groups. In addition to being the subunit of DNA and RNA, nucleotides are also important in cell metabolism, cell signaling, enzymatic reactions and the transfer of energy within a cell.


https://www.reference.com/science/three-components-nucleotide-ad89e1f6f0f1d664?qo=contentSimilarQuestions#

Now I'm sure you didn't even bother reading that... I'm not suprised, there's alot of info there that's hard to understand.....

So does the Policeman know:   

The three components of a nucleotide are the nitrogenous base, the five-carbon sugar and the phosphate group. In turn, the nucleotides are the building components of both DNA and RNA.

Or did he just use the word COMPONENTS to make himself sound good?????????

The Policeman's Scientific qualifications are as follows...........................................
   ................................

I think that's none existent !!!!

Why on earth make a statement that you cannot quantify????

Forensic scientist:

Quote
1. Entry requirements

You’ll usually need a degree or postgraduate award in forensic science. You may also be able to get into this career with a science-based degree like chemistry, biology, life sciences, applied sciences or medical sciences.

If you want to specialise in electronic casework (recovering data from computers, mobile phones and other electronic equipment), you may need experience and qualifications in computing, electrical engineering, electronics or physics.

To start as a forensics lab support assistant, you’ll need A levels, a BTEC or an HND in science.

You’ll usually need colour-normal vision

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-profiles/forensic-scientist

Are any of the Forensic Scientists members of:

The Chartered Society of Forensic Sciences..... http://www.csofs.org/


Did the Forensic Scientists that gave evidence that I mentioned have: "A Degree or Postgraduate award in Forensic Science"

Or were they just assistants with possibly: "Forensics Lab Support Assistant, you’ll need A levels, a BTEC or an HND in science.

Do Not Forget.... These are ENTRY Requirements......

To get to take your Degree you need these requirements:

Quote
Forensic Science BSc(Hons): Entry requirements

Entry requirements for 2017
English language requirements
Entry requirements for 2017

Typical offer

Points: minimum 104/112, depending on qualifications, and on joint honours combination
Units: to include two A-levels or equivalent
Subjects:
A-levels 104 points. Subjects: one A-level or equivalent required in Biology, Chemistry or Science (32 points); two science A-levels desirable; General Studies not accepted. BTEC in appropriate subjects accepted (112 points).
Plus GCSE A*–C (or comparable numeric score under the newly reformed GCSE gradings): five subjects including English Language, Mathematics and Science.
Tariff points for AS levels completed but not carried forward to A2 level are included in points total.

http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/forensic-science/entry-requirements.html


Now.... who out of them lot, has the basic minimum requirement to attend a University in the first place to Gain their degree.....

Come on down.... lets see those qualifications......
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 12:48:18 PM
Now when Dr Vincent Tabak appeared on the Witness stand, it was made clear what his qualifications were:

Quote
Fluent in Dutch, English and German, after school in 1996 he began studying at Eindhoven University of Technology, where he gained a degree in architecture, building and planning.
Between 1999 and 2003 Mr Tabak worked as a research assistant and part-time teaching assistant at the university before embarking on a PhD on ‘User Simulation of Space Utilisation’ – a research project looking at developing a system exploring links between buildings and the movement of humans within offices.

Quote
In his thesis the Dutchman had warm words of praise for his partner, saying: ‘I want to thank my girlfriend Tanja Morson for her support in the last difficult month of my PhD. I am very happy that she entered my life.’

So he didn't finish his PHD till 2008 at the earliest.....

So nearly 10 years of intense study....


So has either Tanja Nickson or Lyndsey Lennon got a degree in Biology.. Chemistry "Forensic Science"???

How long did they train for them to become Fully Qualified??

I'm positive if you asked Dr Vincent Tabak, to quantify anything in the fields that he has studied, he could give a full comprehensive answer...

Which would probably loose most of us!!!

But the question is could:  Tanja Nickson or Lyndsey Lennen?????

Did either of them get questioned in COURT to their Qualifications and Experience in the field of "Forensic Science"...


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 02:25:27 PM
I have just watched that video---hadn't heard of that series before.

I always understood that they kept Chris Jefferies on bail for so long because they had found a pair of trainers with a bloodstain on them while searching his flat, and so they didn't release him from bail until forensic tests had been done on these trainers, and come back clear.

I suspected that they were hedging their bets, though:  they were not sure whether or not he was involved with VT, and also they had someone to fall back on, had they not been able to get anywhere with VT.  That is my opinion, but then I am a cynic.

A placid murderer, eh.  Would make a good title for a book about VT.  I have not heard this description of him by a police officer before.


A PLACID MURDERER: 

Now where in the realms of Psychology Does a Placid Murderer fit in..????

Types of Serial killers.. the psychologist in the Documentary inferred that Dr Vincent Tabak was a serial killer in the making.....

Quote
The Medical Killer
Although this type of killer is very rare, there have been some people who have become involved in the medical industry as a way to carry out their nefarious deeds. This type of killer feels they have the perfect cover because it is very common for people in a hospital to pass away. They are usually highly intelligent and know how to carefully and cleverly conceal their murders. As long as it appears that a victim has died a natural death, there will be no reason for anyone to suspect foul play and search for the guilty party. A few doctors in history have managed to kill dozens of people before others began to catch on.

Well he doesn't fit that description... No access to medical facilities...

Quote
The Organized Killer
This type of serial killer is the most difficult to identify and capture. They are usually highly intelligent and well organized to the point of being meticulous. Every detail of the crime is planned out well in advance, and the killer takes every precaution to make sure they leave no incriminating evidence behind. It is common for this type of psychopath to watch potential victims for several days to find someone they consider to be a good target. Once the victim is chosen, the killer will pick them up, often through some sort of ploy designed to gain their sympathy, and take them to another location to commit the murder. Once the person has been killed, the perpetrator will usually take precautions to ensure the body is not found … until they want it to be. A criminal like this usually takes great pride in what they consider to be their “work” and have a tendency to pay close attention to news stories about their deeds. One of their motivating factors may be just to attempt to stump the law enforcement officers who are trying to solve their crime.

Now they did say  Dr Vincent Tabak was was oraganised....
Was this crime planned out well in advance???
But did they say, that he watched his victim??
Did they say that he took Joanna Yeates to another location to commit the murder???
Did they say he took precautions for the body not to be found??
Gain their sympathy....
No incriminating evidence... better take the Pizza!!
Was every detailed planned out well in advance ???


What ploy could Dr Vincent Tabak have used to gain Joanna yeates sympathy???

The body was not concealed... How could it be there was Salt on the road and the verge from the gritters.. Drivers who had travelled up and down that road depositing Salt!

When was he supposed to have been watching Joanna Yeates?? He only got back from the USA on the 11th Dec 2010, and he was back at work on the 14th Dec 2010... So when did he have time to watch her??

Quote
The Disorganized Killer
These individuals rarely plan out the deaths of their victims in any way. Most often, the people they kill just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This type of serial killer appears to strike at random whenever an opportunity arises. They take no steps to cover up any signs of their crime, and tend to move to different towns or even states regularly to avoid being captured. Disorganized killers usually have low IQ’s and are extremely antisocial. They rarely have close friends or family, and do not like to stay in one place for too long. These killers are prone to have no recollection of their deeds, or to confess that they were motivated by voices in their heads or some other imaginary source.

Was the murder planned by Dr Vincent Tabak???
 Did he move to Holland???
Did he take no steps to cover up the crime???
Has he got a low IQ??
Is He Anti social??
Has he got no close friends or family??
Did he confess to voices in his head??

Well he doesn't fit that Profile:

The Psychologist on Joanna Yeates gave her assessment of Dr Vincent Tabak:
Joanna Yeates Murder at Christmas part Two : 11:30 mins

The presenter says first:
Quote
Some experts believe that Vincent Tabak was a serial killer in the making

Followed by the Psychologist saying:

Quote
He does present an unusual profile to be a one offence killer... when he is this organised and this systematic, And this apparently..erm.... Emotionally disconnected from the tragedy he has caused

I reckon she'd fit him in the The Organized Killer catergory.. (IMO)

Well is he a Serial Killer or Not!!!

Maybe he was emotionally disconnected because he didn't do it????

How Organised was he??

It was supposed to be an opportunistic attack on his neighbour who, he apparently waved to as he passed the window..


Anyone who knew Dr Vincent Tabak had only positive things to say about his calm demenour...

He was never described in those terms of a serial killer...

The policeman called him Placid.....

How can you be Placid and a Murderer in the same context.... Don't think thats possible!!!!!!

And again I'll say... what are the statistics of a Stranger Killer moving the body.... No less than 3 times

Why not leave it where it was and use the time to clean the scene of crime..
If he was supposed to be so meticulous:
He didn't need to move her... nobody would have suspected he had been inside the flat...
If every detail had been planned out well in advance, surely....
Removing any evidence of himself from the flat would have been the best option in concealing his act.. Rather than risking more contamination from moving a body several times....


Why would he need to put himself on CCTV.... in Asda???

He wouldn't... he'd text Tanja.. that would give his location...
He could have left his laptop running at home with a program on..
He could have left his mobile phone at home to show his location....

He didn't need CCTV footage as an Alibi!!!





http://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/types-of-serial-killers/





Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 09, 2016, 04:30:53 PM
LGC Forensics...

Now they employ:
Quote
LGC employs 1,800 staff in 22 countries.

OMG:.... This is amazing.. I found Job vacancies at LGC Forensics:

I Think I've found Beyoncy????????

http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/LGC-Limited/jobs/Weekend-Only-Entry-Level-Submission-Officer-42318052966c0d2e?q=Lgc

Quote
WEEKENDS ONLY Entry level Submissions Officer - Forensic Examination
LGC Limited - Teddington
Part-time
Job Purpose

To receive, return, transfer items submitted for forensic examination in line with company standard operating procedures with full training .

Key Responsibilities and Accountabilities

Coordinate the receipt, return and transfer of items submitted for forensic examination, ensuring chain of custody and item integrity is held throughout the case life at LGC Forensics in line with Standard Operating Procedures (SOP’s).
Analyse details provided by the customer to identify which discipline and location cases should be managed by in line with SOP’s.
Report cases of compromised items/cases as detailed in laboratory SOP’s
Prioritise submissions depending on urgency and length of TRT to support operations in timely examination and reporting.
Ensure safe handling of hazardous and sensitive items including those covered by the Human Tissue Act and Firearms Licensing.
Complete environmental monitoring/anti contamination procedures in line with good laboratory practice and maintain records for compliance
Proactively complete general office duties
Role Dimensions

Proactively work as part of the local and national submissions team.
Make decisions within Standard Operating Procedures and company policies.
Ensure quality processes are followed.
Uphold good customer relationships
Behaviours

Accountability

Attention to detail Ability to work effectively in a team and individually

Openness to change
Customer focused, with good communication skills
Integrity
Knowledge, Experience and Technical Skills Required Knowledge, Experience and Technical Skills

Preferred Knowledge, Experience and Technical Skills

Previous experience of working in a busy office environment dealing with Customers face to face, electronically and by phone
Basic knowledge of the Criminal Justice System and the work that LGC Forensics undertake

http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/LGC-Limited/jobs/System-Data-Analyst-feeeaddcffba771e?q=Lgc

WEEKENDS ONLY Entry level Submissions Officer - Forensic Examination...
So No degree then...

Is this why things get turned round in 48 hours??? only on a weekend?????

This is what requirements are ..
Preferred Knowledge, Experience and Technical Skills

Quote
Previous experience of working in a busy office environment dealing with Customers face to face, electronically and by phone
Basic knowledge of the Criminal Justice System and the work that LGC Forensics undertake:

What's a basic Knowledge of the Criminal Justice system when it's at home?????
Are they actually gonna be doing Forensic Examinations???

It's that being good on the telephone, that's the clincher!!

Quote
Coordinate the receipt, return and transfer of items submitted for forensic examination, ensuring chain of custody and item integrity is held throughout the case life at LGC Forensics in line with Standard Operating Procedures (SOP’s).

So your allowed to handle sensitive items, that may lead to the conviction of a Man/woman...

But they"re happy that you can answer the phone....... A good telephone manner has stopped many a convict being sent to prison...

Quote
Coordinate the receipt, return and transfer of items submitted for forensic examination, ensuring chain of custody and item integrity is held throughout the case life

Does this mean Beyoncey gets to handle sensitive Forensic items??????

See... I did say my son was a Micro Biologist..... ( No Qualifications... but hey ho ...)


Quote
System Data Analyst
LGC Limited - Teddington
LGC Standards is the market leader in a fast growing segment of the global life science tools market and is poised for an exciting new phase of growth following recent significant investments in people, physical and technology infrastructure. The culture of the business is entrepreneurial – it is open, collaborative, embraces change, works at pace and is driven to solve complex problems and challenges in unique and innovative ways. With an ambition to become a leading global life sciences tools platform, LGC Standards offers a stimulating and challenging environment for those looking to join a successful business that recognises and rewards outstanding contribution.

Job purpose to:

The successful applicant will be will be responsible for creating, maintaining and monitoring parts data. The post holder may be expected to assist with Data Collection from external suppliers and internal customers.

Key accountabilities

Managing, creating and maintaining parts data,
Supporting internal customers on parts data enquiries and reports,
Develop and implement processes to support a more consistent global mass upload across the portfolio,
Managing data upload across all sites,
Ensuring correlation and alignment between data in IFS and Agility,
Work in collaboration with data analysts, the Technical team and Product and Sales Managers to ensure data quality and on-time service,
Perform data cleansing activities as per schedule,
Ensure that all work is carried out in accordance with defined company procedures.
Candidate specification:

Demonstrated ability to work a part of a team and independently
Ability to learn complex databases
Excellent communication skills, both oral and written
Understanding of Internal customer requirements and expectations
Demonstrated ability to communicate effectively with technical and non-technical personnel
Demonstrated ability to work effectively on multiple assignments concurrently and to reprioritise work quickly to meet changing demands
Fluent in English, ability to speak and write in German, French is an advantage
Required knowledge, experience and technical skills

Degree level qualification or relevant professional qualification in IT is preferred
Proven quantitative data analysis skills (in particular large databases)
Excellent knowledge of IFS(Mandatory) and Agility
Understanding of various analytical approaches and data models
Proven experience on data migration, parts and pricing module in IFS
Proven project management experience
Experience using advanced excel, power point and Microsoft Visio
Potential of developing into enterprise data management function
Essential competencies and behaviours

Good attention to detail, well organised, innovative
Ability to work independently whilst responsive to direction when necessary

A degree preferred???? Do these people handle sensitive Computer Data??????

Now the next post has to be my favourite:

The important Role of...Forensic Science Examiner :
Note.... NOT SCIENTIST....

http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/LGC-Limited/jobs/Forensic-Science-Examiner-2a91f3de055ae729?q=Lgc

Quote
Forensic Science Examiner
LGC Limited - Teddington
LGC Forensics is the largest privately owned forensic science service provider in the UK. Serving the police and crime enforcement agencies, we also have an increasing number of private sector clients. We offer a comprehensive range of forensic science services, based on an extensive range of techniques. Our scientists use the latest innovations - often developed in-house - to establish the facts of cases under investigation.

The Toxicology team is responsible for the analysis of body fluids and other biological material for alcohol, drugs and poisons in a wide range of criminal cases. Offence types encountered include affray, sexual assault, causing death by dangerous driving, homicide and sudden death. The team also undertakes analyses for H M Coroner in the investigation into the cause of death. We are looking for a Forensic Science Practitioner (Non-Reporting) to join our dedicated team.

Job purpose to:

Examiners are responsible for the routine analyses of casework items and general housekeeping duties and work under the direction of a reporting scientist or senior scientist.

Key accountabilities

Analysis of casework samples using immunoassay techniques, GCFID, GC-MS, GC-QQQ, LC and LC-MS
Ensuring analytical data conforms to quality standards
Routine maintenance of laboratory systems and equipment
Calibration of equipment
Maintain the cleanliness and stocks of the laboratories and follow stringent anti contamination procedures
Input some data onto an internal case management system
Candidate specification:

Appropriate scientific qualification, usually to degree level or equivalent.
Required knowledge, experience and technical skills

Previous experience in sample preparation techniques e.g. L/L, SPE.
Previous experience in GC-MS, GC-QQQ or LC-MS using Chemstation, Masshunter or Analyst software.
IT literate including Word, Excel and Outlook.
Essential competencies and behaviours

Full commitment to and demonstration of upholding LGC values, respect, brilliance, passion, curiosity, integrity.
Good attention to detail, well organised, innovative.
Ability to work independently whilst responsive to direction when necessary.
Ability to cope under pressure, multitask and work to deadlines.
Strong team player.
Effective communicator.


Quote
Appropriate scientific qualification, usually to degree level or equivalent.

Well..... where are the PHD's

What is usually to degree level..... So we're not insisting on a degree in Forensic Science then???
No degrees in chemistry??
No degrees in Biology????

What....

See I told you any Tom Dick or Harry can say they do Forensics...

Remember these people
Quote
LGC Forensics is the largest privately owned forensic science service provider in the UK. Serving the police and crime enforcement agencies

Quote
The Toxicology team is responsible for the analysis of body fluids and other biological material for alcohol, drugs and poisons in a wide range of criminal cases. Offence types encountered include affray, sexual assault, causing death by dangerous driving, homicide and sudden death.

Yer... that reminds me... they worked on the Joanna Yeates Case!!!!!!!

Back to Lyndsey Lennons quote:

Quote
It started as a missing person inquiry on December 18, 2010, says Lindsey Lennen, a body fluids and DNA specialist (who, like many forensic scientists, says the work is "all I ever wanted to do"). The team started by examining items from Joanna's home, looking for foreign DNA. Then on Christmas Day, Yeates was found dead, on a country road.

Ah... Lindsey Lennen is a Body fluids and DNA Specialist..... But Is she a Forensic Scientist?????

Quote
Analysis of casework samples using immunoassay techniques, GCFID, GC-MS, GC-QQQ, LC and LC-MS

It says they need to use these techniques, but do they have an understanding of these techniques???

Quote
Appropriate scientific qualification, usually to degree level or equivalent.
Required knowledge, experience and technical skills

What is an appropriate Scentific Qualification???? What does that even mean????

Here are 10 types of Scientist:

http://sciencecouncil.org/about-us/10-types-of-scientist/

Quote
Business scientist..... Communicator scientist.... Developer scientist..... Entrepreneur scientist.....Explorer scientist..... Investigator scientist......Policy scientist......Regulator scientist.....Service provider scientist.....Teacher scientist


http://sciencecouncil.org/about-us/our-definition-of-science/

Quote
“Because ‘science’ denotes such a very wide range of activities a definition of it needs to be general; it certainly needs to cover investigation of the social as well as natural worlds; it needs the words “systematic” and “evidence”; and it needs to be simple and short. The definition succeeds in all these respects admirably, and I applaud it therefore.”

A C Grayling commending the definition in the Guardian, March 2009

Don't let us be fooled because someone adds the word Scientist to the end of what they do...

Are they fully Accredited Foresnsic Scientists, with the full education to go with it...!!!!!


I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful:

But I was under the impression that people who worked in Forensic Science, where highly Educated, they work in an esteemed profession..

I thought All people who worked for Forensic Laboratory's where Educated to University level...?????

I'm quite surprised......



Edit: who's more qualified:

 
Quote
Vincent Tabak is a highly-educated, multilingual computer programmer -

Fluent in Dutch, England and German, he has a PhD and Master of Science degree and analysed 3D images of buildings for Bath engineering firm Buro Happold.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-vincent-tabak---179554

To be honest I would have expected these types of jobs to be offered in a Science type of magazine/online magazine..

Not at indeed.co.uk?????




Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 10, 2016, 06:04:15 PM
Cj a piece of information he gave the Leveson Inquiry.....

Quote
His statement, he told the inquiry, had said no such thing. Instead, when he spoke to police on December 22 he told them he heard two or three people leaving the block of flats where he lived in Bristol on the night Ms Yeates went missing. He said he had heard voices, but could not say whether one had been a woman's voice or not.

This is quite interesting... why didn't the Police look at the Block of Flats behind his Building....

The Flats in which he is refering to is not where I believe Kingdom lives, I think kingdom lives in a similar type of building to CJ... ( I would imagine CJ would refer to his house as a Building, rather than a block of flats)....


with his quote above is he saying that it was sometimes used as a shortcut from the `Block of flats at the back???
I've attached a picture and I believe he is referring to the Block of flats that look like they are council owned..

Did the people from the block of flats use the side of the building as a short to to the roadside of Canygne Road... ( maybe Parked a car there)'
It not inconceiveable......

Did people from behind Cangne Road ever use a short cut through CJ's?

Someone maybe Parking on Canygne Road and at visiting the block of flats, perhaps.....

They are just as able to use the route past Joanna Yeates house to exit the little gate, it's more likely if  they used the route past CJ's enterance they'd be seen....

Maybe it was a regular shortcut for people????

It's just as concievable, that someone who came from the Block of flats Past Joanna Yeates home could have come into contact with her..

Maybe this had happened before and she had said something...

I do remember a report of a van blocking the road on Canygne Road on that night of 17th Dec 2010

Maybe it was from someone who was behind canynge Road Visiting???



Quote
His statement to the Leveson Inquiry said: "The police have since confirmed to me that the fact that I gave a supplementary statement raised their suspicions in relation to me. On the basis of what ensued, I believe it is likely that the police passed these suspicions on to the media."

That is exactly what Tanja Morson and Dr Vincent Tabak did... they gave a supplementary statement and Dr Vincent Tabak found himself in the same position as CJ had......

If people ever used the route from the block of flats through to Canygne road, it might also give credence to the "Help Me" cry.. that Kingdom heard on the Saturday mid- morning...

I've attached photo's ... But it's really difficult to see if' its possible for someone to squeeze through or not..


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304977/Jefferies-Police-leaked-statement

EDIT:   If It is possible to cut through from the block of flats at the back of CJ's then:........

           It would make sense:.... It would make sense that it could be the possible reason why Joanna Yeates was scared to be on her own, without Greg being around to make her feel safe!!
Anyone passing their Flat when it was dark would make her nervous...


Quote
he heard two or three people leaving the block of flats where he lived in Bristol on the night Ms Yeates went missing.

CJ on the: Honour of CJ,.... is stood at the big gate on his way home from the gym, and here's someone near the little gate...



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 10, 2016, 10:53:30 PM
Dr Vincent Tabak:.......



I think about this case constantly recently...  I have always believed that Dr vincent Tabak is innocent.. And the more I look at this case, the more my original belief is confirmed:

I'm fully aware that most of the country believes that Dr Vincent Tabak is guilty, But it doesn't sway me from what I see as right and true..

It may appear as unkind and unfeeling towards the Yeates Family... I certainly do NOT want to be that... I think they have suffered enough, and when ever I write statements or comments, they are always in my thoughts.. I'm not doing this to stir up the feelings of the Yeates family and I really do not want to cause them any more distress...

But.... And I have to say But...

However people may think I am misguided ...I believe that Dr Vincent Tabak is innocent... (apparently.. I'm about 1 in 10 people who believes this:)

Firstly...Lydnsey lennens quote...:

I'm starting to look at it closely.. And it is quite revealing in it's content:

Quote
Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.


I was wondering if maybe they hadn't taken Dr Vincent Tabak DNA earlier... it was a possibility......But And it's a big BUT......

She says "SUSPECTS".... as in plural.....

So with Cj saying :There had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak

Quote
And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion...

Notice CJ says: Continued!!!! So they had thought the pair had colluded......

Quote
Under Suspicion.. Now I gather that one of the reasons for the delay was that Vincent Tabak when he was arreated.... refused to say anything...And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak

And:
Quote
All the people who lived in 44, Canygne Road... were interviewed, statements were taken... So... my statement was taken along with everyone else...
DNA samples were taken, finger prints, were taken.... It was all entirely Voluntary..But obviously nobody had anything to hide....
So nobody was in the least bit concerned.. erm.... about co-operating in that way...


They had to have CJ DNA and Dr Vincent Tabak DNA at the same time....

 And they can't really  say it was when they took CJ's DNA sample at the police station and Dr Vincent Tabak's sample in Holland..

But I will explain...... further on...

Again:
Quote
clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

Suspects,... she must be refering to Dr Vincent Tabak and CJ...... But she analysing Joanna Yeates swabs at the same time!!

When the Police arrested CJ.. they went through the offical line of collecting his DNA again and his finger prints....
Yes.. he said he'd already given them..

But.... Now this was Offical..
And they probably had to collect it in an Offical Capacity... And treat him like any other prisoner.....

Hence when you watch the Honour of Cj.. you see him giving a DNA sample, it would be his second sample according to CJ....

So... Dr Vincent Tabak......

I believe what CJ says.... I believe that the tenants did give samples...

So how does it apply in Dr Vincent Tabak's case being the same as CJ's??

Well....... Dr Vincent Tabak did exactly what CJ did.... he gave a supplementary statement... He/Tanja rang them whilst he was at his family home for Christmas..

Whilst some of you may think that the statement about CJ's car was supposed to be incriminating., maybe it was just an observation...

And lets just stop and look at the statement like the police did... say it's incriminating...

They didn't really need to go fly Holland, to collect a statement saying the car had changed position.... They didn't need to waste tax payers money on a flight to basically ask a neighbour when he thought that CJ's car had changed position..

They could have simply of waited for him to return from his christmas break.... How long does it take someone to say i saw a car change position??

5 minutes?? lets be generous say 15 minutes... Did that really warrant flying out to Holland to take what the Police describe as a witness statement????

You have to see what is behind their motives just like everyone was looking for a motive:...
At this point Dr Vincent Tabak wasn't apparently a suspect???

So why the urgency to fly out all the way to Holland to get what should be a 15 minute statement from the neighbour who lived at number 2 Flat.....

Even if the would have liked to used the statement against CJ... it wouldn't really add any value to what evidence they apprantly thought they already had against CJ.....

Waiting for Dr Vincent Tabak wouldn't have changed the fact that they had to release CJ........

What most people do probably not understand is how Dutch Law works..... But of course our Police Service does and did.....

Dutch Law Allows the Police to hold a SUSPECT for 6 Hours:....( I remember the policewoman saying that Dr Vincent tabak's voluntary interview was 6 hours long)......

.Yes that's 6 hours in which they have  to interview them as a SUSPECT.. and then if they haven't got the evidence to charge them they have to let them go...... Or they apply to the Dutch Courts for an extension....

They would not be able to apply for an extension because it would be too complicated...And really they wanted him back over in the UK so that they could build a case against him....

So.. by saying that when they talked to Dr Vincent Tabak in Holland and what he said RANG ALARM BELLS.. It sounds convincing... It sounds like he must have made them think he was hiding something... But i believe it is untrue(IMO)...

I'll try explain why i think it is untrue:......

CJ Says:
Quote
.And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak

I think the police believed that CJ had done it, But he would have needed assistance to move the body... And when Dr Vincent Tabak and Tanja rang with a supplement to their statement... That is when the ALARM BELLS started ringing...

Remember their ALARM BELLS rang when CJ rang with his supplementary statement!!!!

So this is when I think they decided to go to Holland... They wanted to interview him NOT as a witness But as a SUSPECT....
Hence they used the Dutch Law of Interviewing Dr Vincent Tabak for 6 hours and not the 15 minutes the interview should have really taken.....

And then said that it was his RELUCTANCE to give his DNA that started ALARM BELLS RINGING... And Dr Vincent Tabaks apparent interest in the case...

Well.... lets face it... half the nation were interested in the case... plenty of forums had set up..it was all over the media.. so really he wasn't any different from anyone else....

The only difference was he rang the Police trying to help like CJ had done.....

I believe that taking his DNA in Holland was a charade.... It wasn't offical, he wasn't under arrest... But they need to explain how Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA was a match to Joanna Yeates.....

We still have to keep reminding ourselves of what CJ said: that the tenants had already given their DNA and finger prints along with statements:

That is why any other communication with the Police Is a SUPPLEMENTARY statement...

Back to what I think Lyndsey Lennen has let slip by talking:.....

Up until i found out about Lyndsey Lennon... and Cj's statement.. I thought that the DNA samples were all taken at varying times:

Now we know that they took sample from Joanna Yeates probably at the scene as I'm not altogether sure ....

Quote
A colleague went down to supervise the removal of her clothing and preserve any body fluids: "The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

"Eventually, we found something," Lennen says. "On swabs and tapes from her breasts, and tapes from three areas of her jeans. There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

Now did they take samples of Joanna Yeates as she lay on the verge?? Or did they go to the Mortuary and help out there:

Either way it doesn't really matter:..... The dates will be slightly different but i'll get there:

25th Dec 2010  some one from LGC Forensics takes a samples from Joanna yeates in situ:

Or 28th Dec LGC Forensics take Joanna Yeates samples from her when shes at the mortuary:

They would have got the sample straight away... it was a massive case:
Quote
12:14PM GMT 28 Dec 2010
Detective Chief Inspector Phil Jones of Avon and Somerset Police revealed the results of a post mortem examination as he declared that her death was now officially being treated as a murder investigation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8228069/Murder-investigation-launched-as-post-mortem-reveals-Joanna-Yeates-was-strangled.html

The post Mortem was completed on the 28th Dec 2010....

Now this is where the Devil is in the Detail......

If they took samples on the 25th dec 2010.. from Joanna Yeates where she lay... Lyndsey Lennen says:

Quote
the work was flat out_clothing swabs,suspects clothing, all turned around in 48 hours

So 48 hours after that would make it the 27th Dec 2010......

If they took the sample at the mortuary and the post mortom was completed on the 28th Dec 2010....

Then 48 hours after that would be the 30th Dec.. 2010.......

Remember its a massive case so, Yes... I believe they got straight on with the task in hand to get the DNA results:

In Fact if you look at an earlier post of mine: Crime Watch the full story part 2...

Quote
Tabak's statement was a smoke screen.... The landlord was entirely innocent... when police checked Jefferies DNA against the sample found on Jo's body. there was no match... he was free to go...

I hope your still following me with this:

Cj was realesed on bail on the 1st January 2010:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/landlord-chris-jefferies-released-by-police-173475

So.... 48 hours before CJ was released would make it the : 30th Dec 2010..

This is when i become Beyoncy:

So... Post Mortem 28th Dec2010..... 48 hours after that makes it the 30th Dec 2010

Sounds right CJ was released on the 1st January 2011...

Then we have this again:

Quote
"The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

AHA........ She is saying there that she has both suspects DNA... as well as Joanna Yeates DNA ..
both suspects being Dr Vincent Tabak and CJ.....

They would have rushed Jo's sample through as vital....

How can they have results from Dr Vincent Tabak by the 30th Dec 2010 when they didn't see him Holland till the 31st Dec 2010.....

That's because what CJ said.. that they had the samples already....... the neighbours had given them voluntarily...

She says "the work was flat out..". they were working on Joanna Yeates swabs and anything else on her IMMEDIATLEY....

Another quote: This is fromCrime Watch the full story Part 2:

At 4.00 mins
Quote
Then shortly before the reconstruction was due to air... They made a dramatic break through.... Forensic Scientists had spent weeks enhancing the tiny DNA sample found on Jo's body. enabling them to establish a link to Vincent Tabak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDtLjPfdw0

So it was near the end of January 2011 that the Crime watch program was due to air:

The police waited weeks, before deciding to arrest Dr Vincent Tabak:  the timing had to be right... everyone would agree it takes weeks to enhance DNA...

That's only if your like me.. for instance... the every day joe blog's would agree.. tiny DNA samples take weeks:

So the statement made by the police seems legitimate:

Again Officially they would have taken further DNA samples when they had him in custody as a SUSPECT........

Quote
With the killer's confession, Lennen's DNA evidence was not further tested.

 
Another slip in my opinion... She didn't need to test the sample they had collected from his arrest......


EDIT: I'll explain:
Quote

So the team deployed an LGC technique known as DNA SenCE, which purifies, concentrates and enhances otherwise unusable DNA: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."
She didn't need to test it at all again... they'd already used theDNA SenCE which enhances the DNA sample that they had.....



But then we need to examine.. Lyndsey Lennen's account:

Quote
"The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

It didn't take weeks.... 48 hours to be precise........

You see.... Joanna Yeates samples were actually the most important samples to be done first.. I'm sure you would agree...

But they managed to do Joanna Yeates's samples CJ's samples and Dr Vincent Tabak's samples all within 48 hours:





NOW..... I bet you thought that I had slipped up there and you can explain away the DNA..... And Lyndsey Lennen doesn't actually say that she tested the DNA samples of the suspects at the same time as Joanna  Yeates samples in that 48 hour window .....  she does say:

Quote
On swabs and tapes from her breasts, and tapes from three areas of her jeans. There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate

Even if you do not believe the DNA evidence I'm Talking about.... (i'm sticking with it)....


BUT........ she actually goes one better.......!!!!!!!


Because as Lyndsey Lennen says: We worked FLAT OUT!!!! ...CLOTHING... SWABS.... (she's refering to Jo Yeates there)..... Then.. SUSPECTS CLOTHING (she's refering to Cj's and Dr Vincent Tabak...  there )all analysed and turned around in 48 hours..

Now they would not of had any samples of Dr Vincent Tabak's CLOTHING until after they arrested him

Quote
"Eventually, we found something," Lennen says. "On swabs and tapes from her breasts, and tapes from three areas of her jeans. There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

Lyndsey Lennen says that they checked the suspects clothing at the same time as thy did the sample testing on Joanna Yeates...

48 hours before Dr Vincent Tabak was arrested is the 20th January 2011... is the 18th January

The would not have got a warrant to search Dr Vincent Tabak's house until the a day or so later... maybe even the same day..

They tested the DNA apparently that they had collect from Holland,,.... that is why thy arrested him....

So AGAIN........... how can they test fibres from Dr Vincent Tabak's coat in the 48 hour window... when even if you believe the story that it was after they saw him in holland that they got a DNA sample from Dr Vincent tabak to test...

 And test Joanna Yeates swabs in the same 48 hr window????

They had to test them to apparently rule CJ out:

Lyndsey Lennen.. definateley says that :

Quote
Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours


So it was physically impossible for LGC Forensics to of all ready had a sample of Dr Vincent Tabak's Black coat that apparently the black fibres were found on the body of Joanna Yeates...

And done a test on it in the same 48 HOUR WINDOW!!!!!!!!! (All of Joanna Yeates Testing would have been done in Dec 2010)........

Because they didn't get Access to Dr Vincent Tabak's Black coat till after they had arrested him in late January 2011...

So Lyndsey Lennen... You could NOT of had access to Dr Vincent Tabak's BLACK COAT at the same time you tested Joanna Yeate's samples..... and all of the SUSPECTS CLOTHING........... PERIOD!!!

Quote
The court was also told that fibres from the Dutchman’s black coat were also found on her clothing.

http://swns.com/news/jo-yeates-strangled-by-cold-and-calculated-vincent-tabak-21328/


Beyoncey Rests Her Case.........

And i will add that all statements and posts I make on this forum are (IMO)..........
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 11, 2016, 03:25:05 PM
Here is what lead to CJ's Arrest:

This is a video interview from CJ when he appears on Judge Rinders Crime storys: Joanna Yeates:

At: 9:30 on the video CJ says:

Quote
The time that I had given my original statement... erm.. to detectives..They stressed, that they were very interested if that at some point in the future.... er....
Anybody remembered anything, that they hadn't... erm... remembered at the time, they should certainly straight away..... get intouch with the police


Then at 22:25 CJ says....
Quote
But erm.... Give what I knew.... erm..I got back intouch with the police to say... You know i'm pretty certain, that on that particular evening... this is what I was aware of

Cj is refering to hearing people on the path near the little gate:

Now at 22:30 The Police Officer says:

Quote
Christopher was quite well known... erm.... In the area, He's a retired
School Master from Clifton College...And actually he became quite an integral part of the initial investigation.... He was a witness and erm.......
He described erm.... seeing some people walking down the driveway of the address... On that Friday evening around about the relevant time... We knew Joanna had returned home....

Now what on earth the Officer is calling CJ a witness for, is beyond me!!!
We Know they saw him as a suspect...

Quote
seeing some people walking down the driveway of the address

Now I.m sure It's the little path CJ's refering too... because it is what CJ hears and doesn't see clearly...

In the honour of CJ.. you see CJ standing in the drive and he looks around and stops as if he has noticed something near the little gate...

Now.....

If CJ... had seen people in the driveway as described by the Police Officer... then surely CJ would have seen them close up and would have given the Police a description of the individuals, and the Police would then put out a description to the media...As these people would be..... PERSONS OF INTEREST!!!

So again.... (IMO) I believe what the policeman says is an untrue......

Quote
he became quite an integral part of the initial investigation.


YES SUSPECT!!!!!!!

CJ says at 24:00 mins:
Quote
Ironically, it was that phone call, which lead the Police to think I was making something up.... In order to deflect suspicion away from myself

So the Police put 2 and 2 together and came up with arresting CJ because of his supplementary statement and the fact that he had the keys to all the flats as the Landlord....


Quote
In order to deflect suspicion away from myself

Now where have I heard that before???? I will elaborate later......

Cj... I'm sure they soon realised would not have the physical strength to lift Joanna Yeates on his own without causing any drag marks..

So... when they released him on bail... believing that CJ, had to be part of the murder of Joanna Yeates, they need to get another suspect in their vision.. to be an accomplice with CJ in the crime...

Remember.. they didn't release CJ from Police Bail until March 2011...
And again in CJ's own words:

Quote
And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak






Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 11, 2016, 04:47:14 PM
If this was true, and the police really did continue to  have some suspicions about CJ, perhaps because he had keys to all the flats and no alibi, but they realised that he couldn't have committed the crime alone, as he was in his sixties and slightly built, what could be more convenient than to arrest another neighbour with no alibi, but young,  big built and with big hands--------------.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 11, 2016, 06:04:31 PM
Here's what led to Dr Vincent Tabaks arrest:

We know from CJ that they all had already given statements.... So any extra information was a supplementary statement, to aid the Police with their investigation:

Crime Watch Joanna Yeates Part 2:

At 2:05 The Presenter says:

Quote
An Officer recieved a call from Vincent Tabakin the Netherlands claiming to have new information

Remember the Police had invited the residents to get in touch if they remembered anything:
At 2:09 The Police Woman says:

Quote
He could remember that Chris Jefferies car had been parked on the driveway in  Canygne Road.... In a particular position the evening before Jo went missing... and the next Morning the car was facing in the Opposite direction....

Now Again... I think this statement is quite telling........   she says :

Quote
In a Particular evening the evening before Jo went missing..... and the next morning the car was facing the Opposite direction...

So how can this statement be acurate???? 

This information is in the Polices head....  lets break it down....

Quote
In the particular evening before Jo went missing

If Jo went missing on the Friday the 17th Dec  2010 as the Police have stated and Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to have killed her....

Why would he ring up and say that Joanna Yeates went missing on the 16th Dec 2010????? That would make it a Thursday...

Ah.... i will explain why....

The Police believed that CJ had done it... and as I said he needed an accomplice if he was to get rid of her , he wouldn't be able to manage on his own...

So the reason was, the Police had interviewed a witness/suspect (CJ)..who was seen going over Clifton  Suspension bridge on the Saturday the 18th Dec 2010..

So Dr Vincent Tabak wasn't trying to implicate CJ.... He was giving a supplementary statement.... Obviously Dr Vincent Tabak was not aware that someone had been seen going across Clifton Suspension bridge on Saturday the 18th Dec 2010...

That was previledged information only the Police knew.... And as the Police say Dr Vincent Tabak was in the Netherlands when CJ was arrested... So he wouldn't have received the information about someone travelling across Clifton Suspension Bridge on Saturday 18th Dec... As the Police were in the middle of interviewing CJ about his movements...

I always found it weird that the Police charged Dr Vincent Tabak with The murder of joanna Yeates between the 16th Dec 2010 and the 26th Dec 2010....

Anyway....
The Presenter on the Program says at 2:20 mins

Quote
What Tabak  had to say was now crucial new evidence for police who are now questioning Jeffereies

Because they believed CJ had done it...

Presenter at 2:30 mins
Quote
On New Years Eve they sent a team out to meet him at a hotel in Amsterdam... But his version of events seemed confused

Well... Version of Events... ??? (what are they talking about?)
All he's really supposed to be telling them is that he saw CJ's Car move position....

Yes confused......

If he's telling them it was Thursday the 16th Dec 2010 that he saw CJ's car in a different direction... They needed it to be Friday the 17th Dec 2010 that he saw the car change direction, if the evidence they thought they had on CJ was going to stick...

The Policewoman says at 2:45 mins

Quote
There were details of Vincent's Account.... That...... were concerning me....

Why would the details that Dr Vincent Tabak was telling her about CJ's Car moving position be of a concern????

She's supposed to be talking to him as a witness remember:

The Police woman then says at 2:48:

Quote
He was Vague in some area's... He was over interested in other area's, Particulary around our Forensic examination...
There was things in his account that just didn't seem right.... to me.
And then his reluctance to give his DNA at the end of the process.......  Again started to Ring Alarm Bells

Lets look at that statement:

 
Quote
He was Vague in some area's

Vague..... lets think about that... if they trying to get info the car had changed position from the Thursday 16th Dec and they are asking him are you sure ....( sure it wasn't Friday the 17th Dec2010...)...
Then.. yes I can see him being vague and unsure....

Lets not forget...... They apparently have only gone over to the Netherlands to ask Dr Vincent Tabak about what he new about CJ's car changing position...

So what else were they asking him, if this was only supposed to be a WITNESS statement about CJ????

So why is she treating him like a suspect....
Quote
He was Vague in some area's
Oh course he's vague, he probably can't remember and is trying to be helpful...

Quote
He was over Interested in others particularly around our Forensics

Now..... Dr Vincent Tabak is sat with Police officers thinking that they are there for a nice chat as to what he saw regards CJ....
He could quite simply being interested what was happening with the case as there had been alot of media coverage
 they had just arrested his neighbour and all this had been happening in the building that he lived in....

For all we know... he might have tried to find out how serious the information that they had gathered against CJ was...
 Him and Tanja would then be homeless...

So we cannot summise why Dr Vincent Tabak asked what ever question to the Police...

Let me look at the next bit of her statement:

Quote
Then his reluctance to give his DNA at the end of the process.....


Hang on a minute.......

 What are you trying to say?????

End of what process......????? Dr Vincent Tabak , If you remember was a WITNESS?????

You see this is where she slips up....

The process she is referring to is his statement as a SUSPECT..... she's letting us now that the PROCESS is actual an INTERVIEW to find out Dr Vincent Tabak's movements.... (6 hours detention by a Police Officer in the Netherlands is the time  allowed to Inteview them....)

 They had him at that hotel for 6 hours... He's only supposed to be telling them CJ's car moved.....

But they act and behave like Dr Vincent Tabak is a SUSPECT and not a WITNESS!!!

Remember....

Quote
What Tabak  had to say was now crucial new evidence for police who are now questioning Jeffereies

Why would Dr Vincent Tabak, be being asked to give his DNA... they only popped over supposidly to get a witness statement from him...

Why did they have a DNA kit in tow??????

Like I said he was a SUSPECT.... Just like CJ had become a suspect  for giving a supplementary statement....
Why  would they even be asking him for his DNA???? he's a WITNESS!!!!!


She then says:

 
Quote
Again... Started to ring Alarm Bells..

Yes... The ALARM BELLS were ringing when Dr Vincent Tabak/Tanja rang to say about the car changing position.... that is why you went to the Netherlands!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDtLjPfdw0

Near The End of The Program, The Presenter sums up:
Quote
That phone call that he didn't need to make trying to frame Christopher Jefferies........
It all unravelled after that... You saw Karen Thomas talking about that hunch that lead them to the DNA that would corner him


Welll.... like I said... he rang to give a supplementary statement....... He wasn't trying to frame CJ....

And yes i agree it all UNRAVELLED after that.....

Because they had to let CJ go... there only remaining SUSPECT was Dr Vincent Tabak....

He says
Quote
You saw Karen Thomas talking about that hunch  that lead them to the DNA that would corner him


Welll what exactly did Dr Vincent Tabak say???? He was reporting Cj's car changing position... nothing more!!

They went to the Netherlands with the purpose of treating Dr Vincent tabak as a SUSPECT.... So they're were no HUNCHES...

No sudden Suprises for the Police Officers.....

Like I said in an earlier post...... Why did they just not wait to see what Dr Vincent tabak had to say about his neighbour when he returned back home from the Netherlands....

They had to release CJ... And he was on bail...

So realistically iy would not have mattered if they got that WITNESS Statement from Dr Vincent Tabak on his RETURN!!!!!




Quote
All the people who lived in 44, Canygne Road... were interviewed, statements were taken... So... my statement was taken along with everyone else...
DNA samples were taken, finger prints, were taken.... It was all entirely Voluntary..But obviously nobody had anything to hide....
So nobody was in the least bit concerned.. erm.... about co-operating in that way...

Cj had said they had all given DNA samples already.... So They didn't need to got to Holland to get a second DNA sample from Dr Vincent Tabak.....











Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 11, 2016, 10:41:51 PM

Oopsie... don't know what happened there..
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: mrswah on December 12, 2016, 11:24:18 AM
Well, if that particular documentary is accurate, then, as you say, VT was not implying that the movement of CJ's car had anything to do with Joanna's disappearance.

However, I never thought he was implying that anyway:  he was doing what CJ himself had done, and giving the police extra information, as  all the neighbours had been invited to do.  The police then took that as "trying to deflect away from oneself", just as they had with CJ.

The meeting in Holland was not reported to the public at the time:   why???

The "accepted" story is that VT aroused Karen Thomas' suspicion because he asked questions about the forensic investigation, and wanted to know why the door of Jo and Greg's flat had been removed.

He also changed his story, by saying that he had been out to ASDA on the evening of the 17th, whereas before he had said he stayed in  until going to collect Tanja.

Karen Thomas reported that his sister and Tanja (who sat in on the interview) seemed to be fussing over him.  I would imagine that the sister, if not Tanja, realised that Vincent was being treated as a suspect.
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 12, 2016, 12:35:32 PM
WHAT LEAD TO THE TIMING OF THE ARREST OF DR VINCENT TABAK.....


Quote
The investigation has reached a stage where it could be subjected to an independent review by a senior officer who has not been involved thus far.

The spokesman said: "National guidance suggests a review should take place somewhere between 28 and 42 days but how that is done, who does it and the scope of the review are up to each individual force and will depend very much on the nature of the investigation in question. These reviews are routine practice and will be considered by us when we believe the time to be right. We continue to have a dedicated team of investigators who will remain on this case until we find and bring to justice whoever is responsible for killing Joanna Yeates."


This quote from the article in the Bristol post is Dated 15th January 2010:


This could be the possible reason for them arresting Dr Vincent Tabak when they did:

Quote
The spokesman said: "National guidance suggests a review should take place somewhere between 28 and 42 days

He even says:
Quote
These reviews are routine practice and will be considered by us when we believe the time to be right.

So he is having to conceed that someone else will Take over the INVESTIGATION and it will be out of his hands!!!!!

Do you think he's going to hand this over to someone else to get the GLORY!!!!! not in my opinion....



Lets just look at the dates:  Joanna Yeates was found on 25th Dec 2010

Dr Vincent Tabak was  arrested on 20th January 2011 = 26 days later

The 20th January 2011 was a Thursday; =26 days later

Saturday the 22rd January would have brought it to the =28 days

So the first opportunity I think would have been the Monday the 24th January to review the Joanna Yeates case:


Lets look at what pressures the team were under at this point:

Quote
The investigation has reached a stage where it could be subjected to an independent review by a senior officer who has not been involved thus far.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/joanna-yeates-murder-detectives-link-cold-case/story-11281334-detail/story.html#ldmP6DbTwv0S35vU.99

I'll look at headlines and articles leading up to Dr Vincent Tabak's arrest:



Article Dated 5th January 2011

Quote
Police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates are coming under growing criticism of their handling of the case.
They hadn't got a scooby as to what was going on... No evidence...

Let's not forget: DNA has been turned round 48 hours: So Dr Vincent Tabak should have been ruled out by this point!!! 
They hadn't arrested him till the 20th January.. some 15 days later....


If we are to believe Lyndsey Lennen's statement 48 hours.....she did the testing.... My ALARM BELLS are ringing!!!

31st December 2011.... 48 hours after that = 2nd January 2011 ....So NO MATCH then........
All the information is fed in to a computer, so by this point, if Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA sample from Holland was a match, it would have come back as that by the 2nd January 2011


They have NO other evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak when they arrest him on the 20th Dec 2010. only the supposed DNA... which we know was tested alot earlier nothing had changed when they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak....


The Supposed PORN on his computer was only there to BOLSTER the STORY they wanted us to believe... The Same with the searches.... I'm sure i can explain those searches too...

One I already have and Dr Vincent Tabak wasn't even in his house when that search was supposed to have been made!!!!!

This Next Article is dated the 5th January 2011

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240280/Joanna-Yeates-murder-police-face-criticism.html



Quote
Detectives admit that they still do not know where and when the landscape architect died and at what stage her body was dumped by the roadside three miles from her flat in Bristol.

Yes:..... This is because there is NO.. Forensic Evidence in the Flat that tells them what happened!!!

Let's split that statement up.....
Quote
at what stage her body was dumped by the roadside three miles from her flat

So WHY did they NOT KNOW , when Joanna Yeates had been LEFT in LONGWOOD LANE!!!!!!!

They have been telling everyone SINCE they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak that it was from THE 17th DEC 2010!!!!!

So they must know she could have been left there at anytime.....

Lets not forget ANDREW MOTT saying that he had to stop the body from THAWING!!!!!!!!


So I believe she HADN"T Lain on the verge in LONGWOOD LONE since the 17th DEC 2010...
SOMEBODY would have surely seen her before the 25th December 2010 as it was a busy route and lots of dog walkers Joggers coming down the entrance on the opposite side of the road..



Quote
An Avon and Somerset police authority member, who asked not to be named, told the paper it was "worrying" that the police did not appear close to finding the murderer.

"WORRYING":.....  Indeed.... you haven't got a clue how Joanna Yeates ended up in Longwood Lane,



Next Article:Dated 15th January 2011

Quote
Landlord in Joanna Yeates case: 'I'll be cleared within days'

Why would he know that he'd be cleared within days??? Who has said this to him?????

Is that 5 days????



Quote
Joanna Yeates’s landlord expects to be cleared of all involvement in her murder ‘within days’, it emerged last night.


 But as we know he wasn't cleared of all involvement, they still suspected CJ had someone assisting him at this point..... We know later they think it's Dr Vincent Tabak..


Quote
Now, apparently, they (police) are just waiting for the forensic evidence to come back. That shouldn’t be too long. When it comes back, Chris is confident he will be cleared.’

Apparenty? At this point CJ doesn't obviously know that they turned the DNA tests around in 48 hours!!

What Forensic's are the Police waiting for??? Have they got someone else's DNA other than CJ's and Dr Vincent Tabak's????

We Know how long they have had the DNA samples results for... 

Let's keep reminding ourselves 48 hours after Holland (if we believe Holland and not the samples they gave in their original statements...) = 2nd January 2011


Quote
Since Mr Jefferies’ arrest, police have been searching the building he shared with Miss Yeates and her boyfriend. That lengthy search was said to have finished last night.

Now what does this mean??  Searching the building???

They would have had access to the Landlords keys... Dr Vincent Tabak, if I remember correctly had moved out of the building with his girlfriend Tanja... And was staying on Aberdeen Road... (did they search his flat ???)

Where there any computers in Dr Vincent Tabaks flat at that time????

So..........

Which parts of the building DID they search???

Quote
"The significant snowfall in the early hours of Saturday December 18 has a considerable impact on this and I am working with numerous forensic specialists to determine the timings."

Now at this point... do we really know that Joanna Yeates has been in Longwood Lane since the 17th Dec 2010??

Now is this Statement again... more telling than we realise....


"Significant snowfall on Saturday 18th Dec 2010"...... Why this is important I believe.. is because the Police still considered CJ a suspect...

Remember... The car going over Clifton Suspension Bridge on the Saturday 18th Dec 2010:...

IF...... there was significant snow underneath the body of Joanna Yeates, then I believe the Polices theorised that she had been dumped on Longwood Lane on the 18th Dec 2010 and not the 17th Dec 2010 because of the heavy SNOWFALL... So there must have been plenty of snow underneath Joanna Yeates!!!

So that would be another reason why they thought CJ had committed the crime.....

What timings is he trying to work out?????

Quote
He said: "I can assure you, we are determined to solve this crime, and bring Jo's killers to justice."
When asked about this comment later, he said: "I think that phrase emphasises that I am not making any assumptions in this case."

YES..... He is determined!! The review will be happening soon!!!!

Not making any Assumptions?????

Well that's not strictly true is it.... You have already assumped CJ is guilty, because you cannot work out how someone would have gained entry into Joanna Yeates Flat...

You are assuming that she was Killed in her Flat.......

You have assumed it has to be someone in that building.....

Quote
v, involving over 70 police officers and staff," Mr Jones said.
"No stone will be left unturned in this investigation."

Again:..... This will take you into the review period where someone MORE SENIOR will be looking at the Investigation..!!!!

Lets Break it down:

Quote
"This is potentially a long and complex inquiry.
"

If at this POINT... you haven't got a clue as to who could have possibly committed the crime.. And we are NOT forgetting that you have already tested CJ's and Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA with Nothing coming back at this point....

POTENTIALLY.... doesn't come into it!!! unless you have someone else's DNA like CJ"S suggesting...

Quote
No stone will be left unturned

So what massive rocks did you turn over in 15 days???

Erm....... We know at this point you still think CJ is involved!! And your only other suspect is another tenant who gave a supplementary statement Dr Vincent Tabak.....

WOW.... this next statements telling:

Quote
Officers have searched through 293 tons of domestic rubbish to find the pizza, and said it is not clear at this stage whether Miss Yeates had eaten it.

WHY..... Is it not clear at this stage that Joanna Yeates has eaten the PIZZA!!!!

We are on the 5th January 2011 now... I thought the testing had been done... So surely her stomach contents would have been tested!!!

So your saying her stomach had NO contents????

So you cannot determine EXACTLY when Joanna yeates died!!!!!

Her Alcohol reading were consistant with having drunk about 2 pints of cider:......

BUT... Again a big BUT....... We have since discovered that there was a CHAMPAGNE CORK on the table in the house... along with a HEALEY"S bottle of CIDER which she didn't buy.....

So she could have drunk that on the Saturday!!!!!! Did you know about the Healey's Cider and Champagne... Tatteringer Reims... Mr Policeman!!!!

Is the Tattinger Reims Champagne and the Healey's Cider, ANOTHER reason you believe Joanna Yeates died on the Saurday 18th December 2010.....

PLUS... you have Kingdom's statement that he heard someone shout"HELP ME".. On Saturday 18th December 2010 about Mid Morning....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240280/Joanna-Yeates-murder-police-face-criticism.html

And to add to there despair.... This Happens:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8242526/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Christopher-Jefferies-may-sue-police-for-wrongful-arrest.html


Quote
Chris Jefferies may sue police for wrongful arrest in Jo Yeates murder case

OOpsie.... You made a Boo Boo there!!!

Quote
Jo Yeates murder suspect Chris Jefferies has told a close friend he is considering suing the police for wrongful arrest.

Now... they haven't got a clue who could have killed her... they are NO nearer to finding a suspect.... UNLESS one just drops in their laps..

And to top it all the man that they have arrested and has been vilified by the press.. Is going to SUE...!!!!


I can just see your heads about to explode at this point.... I'm sure your thinking Arrrrgggg... Mr Policeman...

THE REVIEW is coming up: 

YOU'VE  made a Pigs ear of Arresting the LANDLORD:

YOU HAVE ONE POSSIBLE OPTION LEFT:!!!!!!!

The PLACID Dr Vincent Tabak......

Dr Vincent Tabak... whom in your own words described him As:

Quote
A very PLACID individual to deal with


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUSlmEab-38

At about 33:10 minutes into the program:

Again my ALARM BELLS are ringing:....... Is that the reason they went to arrest Dr Vincent Tabak!!!! He was Placid, he was helpful... He WAS NOT Problamatic he was easy to CONFUSE!!!!!!

Another Article:

Quote
Steven Morris and agencies
@stevenmorris20
Thursday 6 January 2011 16.38 GMT First published on Thursday 6 January 2011 16.38 GMT
 
Police hunting the murderer of Joanna Yeates attempted once again to dampen down any expectation that the crime was going to be solved quickly.

So they are Struggling!!!!

Quote
Chief Superintendent Jon Stratford, of Avon and Somerset police, said "steady progress" was being made but warned: "It could take some time before we find out who killed Jo but we certainly will."


Like I keep saying they haven't got a clue... Again all the time Remember Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA samples have already been tested and have come back on the latest date 2nd January 2010

Quote
Detectives are keeping an open mind over whether the sock was kept by the killer as a trophy and whether she may have been strangled with it.

They definately Know at this point that she wasn't Strangled with the Ski Sock!!!  Her Autopsy had been completed on the 28th Dec 2010.... And Dr Delaneys findings are that it was manual Strangulation....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/06/joanna-yeates-murder-police-progress



So I can sort of see why the Police arrested CJ:

(1) He was the Landlord and he had keys to the Flat..

(2) I believe it was his CAR that went over Clifton suspension Bridge on Saturday 18th Dec 2010, that why you interviewed the witness/suspect about it....

(3) It had snowed heavily on Saturday 18th December and snow was underneath Joanna Yeates body..

(4)  There was no Pizza found in her stomach contents....

(5) Evidence of a different Cider being HEALEY"S cider and Champagne being TATTINGER REIMS was in the flat and you knew she hadn't bought these!!!

(6) Kingdom saying he heard someone shout  "Help Me" on Saturday the 18th December Mid Morning....

But you were STUMPED!!!! Because his DNA didn't match.. and he was too old to lift Joanna Yeates up!!!!

At this point knowing that there is no evidence in the Flat of a struggle... No DNA of anyone in the Falt.... No finger Prints of anyone in the flat....

DID IT NOT CROSS YOUR MINDS THAT SHE LEFT HER FLAT WITH SOMEONE AND THEY BROUGHT HER STUFF BACK!!!!!!!!!

So... so far .... How on earth can this evidence lead to Dr Vincent Tabak being arrested and charged with MURDER!!!!!

They needed someone... anyone so the review didn't happen!!!! (IMO)

And Dr Vincent Tabak was on his own that evening just like CJ had been on his own... So they needed to find a slot where he might have had the time to committ the crime!!!

He was in constant contact with his girlfriend all evening...

He went to Asda.....

They had to fit it around Dr Vincent Tabak being out of the house at the ONLY time he would be alone!!!

Because other than that he has time stamps...

This is why the timestamp on the ASDA video is important...

This is why the 1300 page Document that has Everyones timelines in: Joanna Yeates..Greg Reardon: Tanya Morson and Dr Vincent Tabak:

Is IMPORTANT... It gives timelines of EVERYTHING!!!!
This massive document would PROVE Dr Vincent Tabak didn't have the time to do what they said he did!!!

And the PROSECUTION did NOT give the 1300 PAGE DOCUMENT to the defence till the day of TRAIL!!!!!!!!!

This is why an experiment of lifting a dead weight, from the kitchen... to the bedroom... 2 mins later from the bedroom, through the hallway... turn left up the building.. turn left again across the back of the building... put her down... Go into your own flat...2 minutes later, pick her up again.. move her into your flat.... Put her in a bike bag....

This needs timing!!! He's not allowed to drag her as there are NO drag marks.. he has to carry her... whilst NOT Panicing.... Or leaving any evidence of himself in her flat..... Or evidence of herself in his Flat!!!!!!

HOW MANY MINUTES WOULD THIS TAKE????????????

EDIT:

Please excuse the expression But....

Just a thought..... the supposed sample they had of Dr Vincent Tabak on Joanna Yeates was so small they needed to enhance it using DNA senCE.....

Wouldn't Dr Vincent Tabak have been sweating his B****CKS off trying to move a dead weight about so many times on his own....... Surely he would have deposited a lot more Sweat on Joanna Yeates body... he wouldn't have been able to control that!!!!!

Lyndsey Lennen... Is the Forensic Soecialist...

Andrew Mott... Is the forensic co-ordinator





EDIT:

Look at this:

 
Quote
Mr Jones told reporters yesterday: "At this stage there is no evidence to suggest that Joanna was sexually assaulted.
"However, I have not ruled out that there might have been a sexual motive."

WHY....... are they not ruling out a SEXUAL MOTIVE.. when they KNOW she hasn't been sexually assaulted?????

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240280/Joanna-Yeates-murder-police-face-criticism.html

This is the 5th January 2011:....

Is his brain ticking trying to explain why Joanna Yeates was murdered??????????

Remember he thinks CJ has something to do with her murder still at this point!!!

So why the suggestion of a sexually motivated attack... they obviously didn't think that of CJ!!!

Also REMEMBER.... the supposed searches do not prove intent or anything and the so called PORN was inadmissible...

He had to come up with something!!!!!! (IMO)

They had NOT searched Dr Vincent Tabak's computer by the 5th January 2011..!!!

So where did the IDEA of a  SEXUALLY MOTIVATED ATTACK COME FROM......... on the 5th January 2010

Dr Vincent Tabak.... was actually Arrested on the 20th JANUARY 2011 (hadn't seen his comp)!!

Quote
"However, I have not ruled out that there might have been a sexual motive.

This is PLANTING the idea in the MINDS of the public that is was Sexually Motivated....(IMO)

Is this you revealing your hand Mr Policeman????????



Sorry to keep editing: BUT...........
Quote
He said: "I can assure you, we are determined to solve this crime, and bring Jo's killers to justice."

KILLERS!!!!!!! see he think CJ had something to do with this on the 5th January 2011

NOW we understand Lyndsey Lennen's Statement of:

Quote
A colleague went down to supervise the removal of her clothing and preserve any body fluids: "The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

THEY HAD TESTED CJ's and Dr Vincnt Tabak's DNA TOGETHER and at the same time as Joanna Yeates samples were tested.....

He says KILLERS!!!!!!!!!!! plural two of them!!! So why the Crap about a sexually Motivated attack??

Unless its the people that CJ heard at the little GATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

CJ was NOT released from Police Bail until MARCH!!!!!


Did they actually go to Holland and interview Dr Vincent Tabak there????  I have my doubts!!!!

See:
Quote
Jo Yeates murder accused Vincent Tabak in court
Bang on!!!!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12262194
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 12, 2016, 03:11:52 PM
Well, if that particular documentary is accurate, then, as you say, VT was not implying that the movement of CJ's car had anything to do with Joanna's disappearance.

However, I never thought he was implying that anyway:  he was doing what CJ himself had done, and giving the police extra information, as  all the neighbours had been invited to do.  The police then took that as "trying to deflect away from oneself", just as they had with CJ.

The meeting in Holland was not reported to the public at the time:   why???

The "accepted" story is that VT aroused Karen Thomas' suspicion because he asked questions about the forensic investigation, and wanted to know why the door of Jo and Greg's flat had been removed.

He also changed his story, by saying that he had been out to ASDA on the evening of the 17th, whereas before he had said he stayed in  until going to collect Tanja.

Karen Thomas reported that his sister and Tanja (who sat in on the interview) seemed to be fussing over him.  I would imagine that the sister, if not Tanja, realised that Vincent was being treated as a suspect.

The thing with the video's Mrswah..... Is the PUBLIC believes them.... The public believes what they have been told... they believe Dr Vincent Tabak is some sort of sicko Murderer... because they have been told that.....

They wouldn't have accepted the police describing him as a PLACID MURDER!!!!! it doesn't compute!!

And everytime they release a video, it only reinforce's it in the minds of the general public.....

That's why the PORN stuff came out after the trial..... To reinforce in the public's mind that this man is BAD!!!

The porn wasn't admissible at trial and i really don't think that it was just because it would be prejudicial to the defence... I believe it wasn't real.... not in the way they portrayed it....

Then after he's convicted : Crime Watch do a special???? Are they appealing for info on Crimes NOT telling us how BAD Dr Vincent Tabak is??????

How do we know he changed his story about going to Asda???????

Have we been allowed to see the statements that Dr Vincent Tabak has given to the Police..... There was that lady who tried to get access to them by using the freedom of information act...

We don't know when they first asked him about HIS movements on the 17th Dec 2010 and if the POLICE where CONVINCED she had been killed on the 18th DEC 2010... The Asda wouldn't come into it...

Remember at this point , he's a possible witness,.. nothing more........ They are not supposed to be interviewing him as a suspect... just a neighbour with what might be a bit of info!


Maybe he didn't think it important enough to tell them that.... he was a neighbour telling them about his BORING evening on his own on the night of the 17th December 2010 including what he did on the 18th and 19th of December 2010..... (they don't know when she was killed) (or if she is just missing at this point!!!)

 It was just a simple statement... that's probably why they ask the TENANTS to ring them if they remembered anything else....

Again... About the door...... unless we see the statements Dr Vincent Tabak made we do not KNOW if he asked about the door!!!

He had said NO COMMENT..... for ages... So when is he supposed of asked about the door.......



But apparently they denied her access in case Dr Vincent Tabak appealled.....

WELL....... LET DR VINCENT TABAK APPEAL THEN!!!!!!!


I agree about his sister concern... Dr Vincent Tabak was Placid...  He probably wasn't aware what the Police had in store for him... But i'm sure his sister did!!!!

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 13, 2016, 10:44:29 AM
I want to add to this post: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg368908#msg368908

Thought I shouldn't Edit it again.. so I'm adding some more quote:

These quote are from Judge Rinder cases: Joanna Yeates: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4htq8y

We established that the DNA was turned around in 48 hours... So we need to understand these comments made by the police man:

So: 20th January 2011... 48 hours before that is := 18th January 2011:

Did they get a sample from Dr Vincent tabak on the 18th January 2011??........ NO!!


At 31:25 mins: The Policeman says:
Quote
It was around the 20th January, that erm... we positively identified there were components in the mixed DNA.. of Vincent Tabak

Again... 48 hours before Dr Vincent Tabak Popped round did he???

So he clearly says the 20th January!!

At 33:20 mins: The Policeman says:
Quote
He hadn't returned to the flat, and was staying with a friend in another part of Bristol.. We went there in the early hours of 20th January we arrested him..

Then he springs into action after getting the DNA results on the 20th January 2011... And even before the ink is dry on the arrest warrant, he's managed to run round to Aberdeen Road, in the wee hours and Arrest Dr Vincent Tabak!!!

Question:

(1) What time in the morning on the 20th January 2011 did the Police recieve the DNA results from LGC Forensics????????

(2) What time in the morning did they Arrest Dr Vincent Tabak on the 20th January 2011???

(3)  How long does it take to get an Arrest warrant together ??

(4) Why did the Police know that Dr Vincent Tabak was staying in Aberdeen Road???

(5) Wouldn't the arrest warrant have to have Dr Vincent Tabak's name and Address on it?

(6) Had the Police been keeping tabs on Dr Vincent Tabak to even Know he was staying in Aberdeen Road????

This is interesting:

Quote
Warrant for Arrest
If the police have the power to execute a warrant for arrest (also mis-spelled ‘warrent for arrest’) it is because it will have been issued by a Court (usually a Magistrates’ Court) in connection with criminal proceedings.

Arrest warrants give the police the power to:

arrest a suspect,
detain them, and
produce the suspect before a court.
It is important to note that the arrest warrant must be valid, and that the police do not exceed their powers or act outside of its scope when executing it. If they do, you may be entitled to compensation for an unlawful arrest warrant.  (Click on the link for more information.)

https://www.donoghue-solicitors.co.uk/actions-against-the-police/police-warrant-claims/warrant-definition/warrant-for-arrest/


Well Well Well...... Mr policeman:....... You are quite exceptional, you have managed in the space of a few hours, get the DNA results that you say belong to Dr Vincent Tabak..

Not only that.... you managed to arrest him in the EARLY HOURS.......

And the bit that is completely fantastic.... "Shows dedication".... You also got an Arrest Warrant from a Magistrate!!!!

Did you have to bang this MAGISTRATE up out of bed?????

Don't know what time they arrive at court... So I could be wrong that you banged them out of bed........

And you managed all this in a few hours with a DNA profile that wasn't a FULL profile which didn't prove that Dr Vincent Tabak was the donor of the DNA and the MAGISTRATE said YES:

Here you go.... Go AND get that BAD man so I can get some sleep!!!!!!



Quote
it is because it will have been issued by a Court (usually a Magistrates’ Court) in connection with criminal proceedings.


Magistrates court then????? Or Kangeroo???? (IMO)

Quote
It is important to note that the arrest warrant must be valid, and that the police do not exceed their powers or act outside of its scope when executing it. If they do, you may be entitled to compensation for an unlawful arrest warrant.   

Was it valid Mr Policeman?????

Did you actually have a warrant for such a serious offence as murder??????

Don't forget... he can be Compensated.........
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 13, 2016, 01:18:23 PM
                                                   The Chaplain Peter Brotherton


Yes..... we all remember the CHAPLAIN Peter Brotherton and his helpful nature:.......

Quote
Joanna Yeates murder trial: Vincent Tabak confessed to chaplain in jail


Did he really!!!!

That was extremeley fortunate for Dr Vincent Tabak , that he joined Long Lartin... What ever would he have done without him!!!!


Quote
he said, was on 24-hour watch, with a perspex door fronting his cell.

It was during their third meeting, on Monday 8 February, when, as the court heard, Tabak revealed that he had something to tell the chaplain which “would shock him”. According to Brotherton,

Lets think about that... 3rd meeting..... He was a conciencious Chaplain......

He's meet with him 3 times in 12 days.... too kind......

What's with the perspex door?????

https://www.channel4.com/news/tabak-planned-to-plead-guilty-trial-hears

Quote
Vincent Tabak is said to have told the Salvation Army’s Peter Brotherton: ‘I have got something to tell you that is going to shock you.’
Tabak was said to have told Mr Brotherton of his plan to ‘plead guilty’ at HMP Long Lartin on February 8 and that he felt sorry for what he had done to Ms Yeates.
But Tabak then reacted angrily as Mr Brotherton told him he would not be able to keep the admission secret, the chaplain told Bristol crown court.

Were is the ..." I killled Joanna"????

http://metro.co.uk/2011/10/18/joanna-yeates-murder-trial-vincent-tabak-confessed-to-chaplain-in-jail-187513/#ixzz4Si45NyQa

On The Judge Rinder Crime Video : Joanna Yeates

At 36:20 The Policeman says:
We also cannot forget The Policeman saying:
Quote
In February 2011, he disclosed to a Prison chaplain..erm... that he'd killed Joanna and that he was going to admit it at court

Did He actually use those words??? Did he say I killed Joanna????
Now be careful of your description there Mr Policeman...
Are we sure he really is a CHAPLAIN?????


The SALVATION ARMY Chaplain... has always been a bit of an enigma.... When anyone tries to Clarify anything about Peter Brotherton is is virtually impossible, because he is not listed anywhere....

And the only time you actually find information regarding Chaplain Peter Brotherton, it is only every in relation to the Joanna Yeates case...

Which I found most Parculiar.....

Quote
On Feb 8 he spoke to Peter Brotherton, a voluntary chaplain with the Salvation Army, said the prosecutor, Nigel Lickley QC.
Tabak told him: “I’m going to tell you something that will shock you,” Mr Lickley said.
“Vincent Tabak told him ‘I’m going to plead guilty’,” he added.
The chaplain asked him “what for?” and Tabak replied: “For the crime that I have done.”
When he was asked if he meant “the young lady in Bristol” he said “yes” and the chaplain asked him: “Are you sorry?”

Where does he say that he Killed Joanna Yeates?????

Another thing..... we all blindly, me included.... Think: Prison Chaplain means: A man of the cloth... A man of great FAITH..

A man that can be trusted.. A man that i can confide in....
But:..... The Chaplain told!!!!!

Quote
Salvation Army member Peter Brotherton told the jury he shook hands with Vincent Tabak before the defendant told him: "I have got something to tell you that is going to shock you."

I'll shake your hand.. Then I'll stab you in the back.....(IMO)

Quote
Tabak, who had been under 24-hour supervision at HMP Long Lartin, was said to have told Mr Brotherton of his intention to plead guilty on 8 February, three weeks after his arrest.

Interesting.... look at what his title is:..... MR??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8820130/Vincent-Tabak-told-prison-chaplain-I-killed-Joanna-Yeates.html

Mr Brotherton took his role in Long Larton Prison Just apparently a month before Dr Vincent Tabak was there:

Quote
He had assumed the role of a volunteer chaplain in January this year, just a month prior to his first meeting with Vincent Tabak. Tabak,

AH........ ASSUMED THE ROLE!!!!! So Not a proper Chaplain!!!!!!!!!


https://www.channel4.com/news/tabak-planned-to-plead-guilty-trial-hears

Quote
Appearing at Bristol Crown Court, Mr Brotherton said he decided he could not keep the information secret because Tabak was not religious. Mr Brotherton, who has been visiting prisoners since 1975, said "there was a little bit of anger" in Tabak's voice after the chaplain said he would have to pass on the information, which the Dutch engineer offered on their third meeting.

Again.... his title is ,... MR....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/vincent-tabak-was-angry-when-he-confessed-2372428.html


Everyone one else,.. refers to him as a CHAPLAIN!!!..... But I don't believe he is a Chaplain in the PROPER sense of the term........

Lets look at his quote:

Quote
Appearing at Bristol Crown Court, Mr Brotherton said he decided he could not keep the information secret because Tabak was not religious.

This on apperance, seems ligit in on sense... He's using the excuse that Dr Vincent Tabak is not religous.... So it's his duty to divulge the information to his superiors....

Who are MR BROTHERTONS SUPERIORS???????? 

I Believe the POLICE were MR BROTHERTONS SUPERIORS!!!!!

I'll tell you for why..... he is denfinetley not a Prison Chaplain in the true sense of the word (IMO)

Did you notice how he is addressed???

Quote
Appearing at Bristol Crown Court, Mr Brotherton

Nobody has picked up on this subtle difference.... with everything going on MR Brotherton has only had a role in a supposed confession... Yes people of religion are horrified that a PRISON CHAPLAIN would DIVULGE any information bestowed upon them....

Again...The Devil is ALWAYS in The DETAIL:.....

You see.. I DO NOT BELIEVE MR BROTHERTON IS A PROPER CHAPLAIN!!!!

You have to understand how The Salavation Army works...... There are different catergories of Chaplain... members etc...... And that is it.....

HE IS A MEMBER!!!

Quote
Salvation Army member Peter Brotherton told the jury he shook hands with Vincent Tabak before the defendant told him: "


This quote is from the Independant and I believe they acuratley described MR BROTHERTON!!!!!!! They call him a MEMBER!!!!!!!!

http://www.salvationarmy.org.uk/being-salvationist

YOU CAN BE: A SOLDIER:

Quote
Soldiership

One way to be a member is to become a soldier.

This is a voluntary personal commitment arising from a spiritual conviction. You will be invited to attend classes to explore the beliefs and practices of The Salvation Army, which will include exploration of your spiritual experience and the way in which this impacts on your lifestyle choices.

When a Salvation Army soldier is enrolled – officially joins the church – they publically demonstrate their decision by signing and adhering to the soldier’s covenant. Soldiers make a choice whether to wear the uniform or not based on their personal convictions.Soldiership

One way to be a member is to become a soldier.

This is a voluntary personal commitment arising from a spiritual conviction. You will be invited to attend classes to explore the beliefs and practices of The Salvation Army, which will include exploration of your spiritual experience and the way in which this impacts on your lifestyle choices.

When a Salvation Army soldier is enrolled – officially joins the church – they publically demonstrate their decision by signing and adhering to the soldier’s covenant. Soldiers make a choice whether to wear the uniform or not based on their personal convictions.

OR YOU CAN BE: ADHERENT MEMBER


Quote
Adherent members

Adherent members do not wear the uniform but are committed to The Salvation Army as their church and, as such, can identify themselves as members of The Salvation Army. It is the opportunity to explore your faith and how you best express is.

Not only is it important to The Salvation Army that adults find a place to worship and have the opportunity to become members, but that children and young people are included in this.

Children can also make a voluntary personal commitment to serve God through The Salvation Army, too. Through junior soldier classes, children can learn about God and make their own commitment to explore their spiritual experience and the impact it can make on their life choices.

In a public ceremony, they will sign the junior soldier’s promise to become a junior soldier member of The Salvation Army. Whether they wear the junior soldier’s uniform or not is up to them.

This is where the important stuff lies........

http://www.salvationarmy.org/ihq/7DBFBCA725142A5C802573B1004F315A



Quote
Adherent members do not wear the uniform but are committed to The Salvation Army as their church and, as such, can identify themselves as members of The Salvation Army.

So I truley believe that MR BROTHERTON was an ADHERENT member of the SALVATION ARMY and not a CHAPLAIN.......
Quote
'Adherency' is a form of membership of The Salvation Army which varies from country to country. It never requires the full acceptance of Salvation Army regulations that 'soldiership' (full membership) requires, but in many countries the adherent signs a Certificate of Recognition.

One widely used certificate declares: 'This certificate confirms that ____ is an Adherent Member of The Salvation Army. An adherent member of The Salvation Army is a person who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and seeks to follow and be like him; participates in the worship, fellowship, service and support of a local Salvation Army congregation; and identifies with the Army's Mission Statement.

An adherent member is a person 14 years of age or over, who meets the definition of adherency given above, and who is not an active member of any other religious body. The Salvation Army affirms all who sign the certificate, recognises this as a positive step in a personal journey and pledges ongoing encouragement and pastoral guidance as this journey of faith unfolds.


So lets have a look at who could be an ADHERENT member:

(1) Lollypop Lady

(2) Ice Cream man

(3) Lawyer

(4) Policeman Man.....

(5) Dinner lady

(6) Girl Guide

(7) Bouncer

(8) Vet

(9) Prison Officer

(10) Male Nurse/ Nurse/ Dentist

Basically just about anyone one can be an ADHERENT MEMBER:........

So what is MR BROTHERTON'S OTHER JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Adherent Member of The Salvation Army. An adherent member of The Salvation Army is a person who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and seeks to follow and be like him; participates in the worship, fellowship, service and support of a local Salvation Army congregation; and identifies with the Army's Mission Statement.

So MR BROTHERTON ..... You are an ADHERENT MEMBER are YOU???

See nobody again asked MR Brotherton for his QUALIFICATIONS.... because he didn't need any!!!!!!!!!

So going on the witness stand as MR BROTHERTON.... he wasn't telling an untrue....

He didn't need to say whether or not he was a Chaplain in the full sense of the word..... Because...

Everyone including myself believed he was..... BUT NOW.... I think he's just an ADHERENT member...

So any Joe Bloggs with a religious conviction can be come a SALVATION ARMY MEMBER!!!!!!!!!

I will add that nowhere I can find that MR BROTHERTON says he is a CHAPLAIN.. so he's not lying there:

Adherent members do NOT wear the uniform... that is why when MR BROTHERTON attends court he is in a suit... I have attached a picture of Mr Brotherton...( it might not be a photo of him... it was taken outside court)......

So... what is his real job... does he work inside the Police Department???? Does he work with the Prosecution service.... Do we really know ANYTHING about MR BROTHERTON other than he blabbed about Dr Vincent Tabak's supposed confession!!!!!

So what was this confession??? Is the statement that Mr Brotherton says made in one meeting or over several?? Has he strung aload of sentences together over various meeting???

Because I don't know about you... But I just do not TRUST The so called CHAPLAIN.... he apparently only joined Long Larton at the end of January 2011...


Quote
Mr Brotherton, who has been visiting prisoners since 1975, said "there was a little bit of anger"

In what CAPACITY......... 

Dentist??? Nurse??? what is your job!!!!!

And.. we Know that Dr Vincent Tabak is Placid and Helpful... would he show ANGER????

Well maybe he he just found out you weren't a real CHAPLAIN. and had tricked him.....(IMO)

At court this is what was said:

Quote
During cross-examination, Tabak’s QC William Clegg claimed Mr Brotherton’s comments differed from a statement he gave on February 16.

Mr Clegg said: “Let me suggest to you there was no suggestion of ‘changing my plea’. ‘I am going to plead guilty’ - that’s what he said. “You said ‘What for?’. And he said ‘For the crime I have done’.”

What Crime was he confessing too?????? Doesn't say Joanna Yeates MURDER!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8820130/Vincent-Tabak-told-prison-chaplain-I-killed-Joanna-Yeates.html

Quote
Adherency' is a form of membership of The Salvation Army which varies from country to country. It never requires the full acceptance of Salvation Army regulations that 'soldiership' (full membership) requires,

This is the real reason why MR BROTHERTON could divulge the information that was supposedly given to him by Dr Vincent Tabak.... He DOSEN"T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES!!! Nothing at all to do with Dr Vincent Tabak being Religious or NOT!!!!!



Oh Dear..........

MR BROTHERTON..............

I do believe I have found you:?????? (IMO)


Are you this MR PETER BROTHERTON????????



http://www.butlertrust.org.uk/peter-brotherton-anthony-richardson-hmp-whitemoor/

Quote
PETER BROTHERTON & ANTHONY RICHARDSON (HMP Whitemoor)
COMMENDEES 2012-13: Senior Officer & Prison Officer: for contributions to the care and welfare of staff. (This Commendation is granted in memory of Paul Mason).

Oh lets see.... let me guess your JOB!!!!!!!!....
Sureley it isn't a coincidence that there are two of you in the Prison Service????????????

I could be wrong of course:

Quote
[The following article appeared in issue 5 of the Butler Trust’s magazine, Inspire]

In the category of staff care, Supervising Officer Pete Brotherton and Prison Officer Anthony Richardson at HMP Whitemoor have been commended for their ‘contributions to the care and welfare of staff’ through the prison’s witness care initiative. Pete and Anthony are active members of the prison’s staff care team, which provides peer support for staff members in difficulty on a purely voluntary basis, juggling the commitment with their fulltime roles – Pete as part of the orderly officer group and Anthony in the establishment’s dangerous, severe and personality disorder (DSPD) unit.

So Peter...... you are actually a SUPERVISING OFFICER... who's an ADHERENT Salvation Army member!!!???????

Quote
As Whitemoor is a high security prison it holds some of the most dangerous and violent prisoners,’ says Pete. ‘To take these people to court while they are already serving long sentences is very challenging.’ The system now supports staff before, during and after trials, involving the provision of courtroom training as well as organising appropriate transport and pre-trial visits to the court to address staff anxieties around what will happen on the day.

Was it really challenging to get the PLACID... Dr Vincent Tabak to court?? Or was the challenge getting the PLACID Dr Vincent Tabak to believe you were a PRISON CHAPLAIN!!!!! (IMO)


Quote
There is now a single point of contact at the CPS for each case, regular communication with all agencies, and staff are shielded from press intrusions.

So was it the CPS whom you had to inform of the supposed CONFESSION that the PLACID Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to have made???????


MR BROTHERTON...... I believe it's time you explained your ROLE PROPERLY and what your JOB is:!!!!!!!!!

It sounding more and more like a set-up......... (IMO)!!!!!!!!

This Case is a Joke!!!!!!!! Brotherton only stated work at LONG LARTIN PRISON  in January.. ..

Convienent if you ask me:!!!!!

Again.. I do believe Dr Vincent Tabak should have a Re- Trial.... 

In My Opinion they stitched this man up good and proper!!!!!!!!


So..... MR BROTHERTON... you are really a Prison Officer??????? (IMO)  A Supervsing Prison Officer????? (IMO)

Quote
In the category of staff care, Supervising Officer Pete Brotherton and Prison Officer Anthony Richardson at HMP


The photograph I Have attached is from the internet.. So this picture may be wrong.. and it maybe just  just a guy leaving court!!!

The picture come from The Mirror...  I don't know who Identified this man as PETER BROTHERTON..... maybe he IS!!  Maybe he ISN'T!!!!!

I Personally believe that if this PETER BROTHERTON is one in the same person that they cannot act for the benefit of a PRISON............ It clearly is a conflict of interests!!!!!!!!!

And if not.... Explain yourself PETER BROTHERTON!!!!!!!!


I DO NOT BELIEVE DR VINCENT TABAK CONFESSED TO ANYONE!!!!! PERIOD! (IMO)

EDIT: 
Quote
Before he left, the chaplain shook hands with the prisoner and offered to pray with him, but Tabak declined. Brotherton handed him instead a handwritten prayer saying: “You can use it or do whatever you want with it.”

ERM........ let me make a suggestion!!!!!!

https://www.channel4.com/news/tabak-planned-to-plead-guilty-trial-hears

Quote
There is now a single point of contact at the CPS for each case, regular communication with all agencies, and staff are shielded from press intrusions.

This is why I don't think the picture is MR BROTHERTON..... They get shiedled from press intrusion..
Why would he then want his face splashed all over the press!!!!!!!!

Could be a picture of an Unhealthy Policeman!!!

http://www.prisonofficer.org.uk/search.php?keywords=chaplain++&t=6254&sf=msgonly&sid=62cc07ca8a216f62bdcf982c4b17aacd   

This is where i thought I would have found Mr Brotherton.... because of his years of service


If they TRICKED Dr Vincent Tabak into believing that MR BROTHERTON was A Chaplain....

What else did they trick Dr Vincent Tabak with??????????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 13, 2016, 10:29:40 PM
                                                   The Confession...........

Now we need to understand what leads Dr Vincent Tabak to confess.....!!

Everyone.... Apart from myself and a few other believe THE CONFESSION......... ( i do not BELIEVE it for one moment )!!

It was an integral part of Dr Vincent Tabak facing Murder charges......

So.... how do we look at this as possible DURESS!!!!!

We have to go right back to when they first arrested Dr Vincent Tabak... which if you remember is the...... 20th January 2011...

So Again... start adding things:......

20th January 2011 was a THURSDAY

They could hold him for :
Quote
For how long you can be detained
 You can normally be detained for up to 24 hours without being charged.
This can be longer but only if the offence could be tried by a judge and jury
in a crown court and a Police Superintendent or a court allows it to happen.
After 36 hours only a court can allow the police more time to detain you
without being charged.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/332266/CodeC-NoRE.pdf


So this now brings it to Saturday the 22nd January 2011....... = 36 hours later

Well court is not really held on a Saturday....
So...............

The next available slot will be Monday the 24th January 2011......

Now you need to understand the difficulties someone ...especially someone of a PLACID nature is trying to deal with these somewhat TESTING circumstances:

I will let CJ tell you:

Quote
I was taken into custody and questioned by the Police for
three days, during which time I was entirely cut off from
the world to all intents and purposes. Finally, on 1
January, I was released on bail pending further
investigations.
 

Notice they still suspect CJ.........

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Witness-Statement-of-Christopher-Jefferies.pdf

Lets not forget:.... CJ found this situation intolerable... he was in Police custody for 3 days with no contact from the outside word..
No Family..
No friends..
No one except his SOLICITOR.......

Now lets go back to Dr Vincent Tabak:

He was arrested on the 20th January 2011 and did not get to see his family or friends for at least 5 days: 
I genuineley don't think he saw then then... But I digress .....

Are these the timings you are refering to Mr Policeman??????

By Arresting Dr Vincent Tabak on the Thursday 20th  January 2011... the Police had longer than the 36 hours,in which they would have to apply for an extention:.....

I hope your following...

Clever Tactics in my opinion!!!!

So.... 24th January we get this:= 5 days as he was arrested EARLY hours of the 20th January 2011

Quote
Vincent Tabak makes first court appearance - and plans to apply for bail
He stood impassively in front of Bristol magistrates yesterday and spoke only to confirm his name, address and age, and to verify he understood proceedings.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/vincent-tabak-makes-first-court-106532

So he appears in front of the Magistrates on the... 24th January 2011 (WHERES THE BAIL)?? His solicitor is COOK at this point!!!!!

Quote
He was charged with murder on Saturday evening.

this I don't understand??? Was the original charge for the Saturday 18th Dec 2010????

So we are now 5 days being held and no sign of seeing any family or friends at this point:.....

You would like to think that Dr Vincent Tabak as a Dutch Nation is getting the full British Hospitallity package.... But NO.........

They use an EXCUSE to move him......... To Gloucester Prison!!

Quote
THE man accused of murdering Jo Yeates was moved to a different prison
yesterday amid fears for his safety.

Vincent Tabak had spent less than 24 hours in jail in Bristol before the
30-mile switch to Gloucester.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/330342/tabak-jail-switch-over-attack-fears/

So at this point... EVEN his SOLICITOR does NOT... get access to him... it can take time to sort!!!!!!

Recap:  Arrested 20th January 2011
And by the 25th January .... no contact with any friends family and as far as I'm aware only a DUTY solicitor has been appointed!!!!

So we are at day 5........ I personally would concider that more than 36 hours without proper intervention!!!

COULD IT GET ANY WORSE............. well yes actually

Quote
THE man charged with the murder of Jo Yeates has been placed on suicide watch
in prison.

Dutch-born Vincent Tabak is being monitored around the clock at Long Lartin
jail, where he is on remand.

He's been moved again....... No family No friends... who's his lawyer???????

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/332161/jo-suspect-on-suicide-watch-in-tough-jail/

Now the Placing of Dr Vincent Tabak on suicide what is vey telling........

How have they described him before??

Placid?? Calculating?? sytematic??

You really have to understand what the MOTIVES are again........

what happens to prisoners on suicide watch in LONG LATIN PRISON????????

OMG ... ya gonna love it....

Quote
He had assumed the role of a volunteer chaplain in January this year, just a month prior to his first meeting with Vincent Tabak. Tabak, he said, was on 24-hour watch, with a perspex door fronting his cell.

https://www.channel4.com/news/tabak-planned-to-plead-guilty-trial-hears


When was MR BROTHERTONS first meeting With Dr Vincent Tabak???

So..... we have now spent 7 days so far without  having any contact with firends or family and we have been put in a Cell with a perpex door.... No privacy...

If CJ found just 3 days very difficult and trying... Try DOUBLING that!!!!!!!!!!!

Up until this point NO BAIL has been applied for what so ever!!!!!!!!!

So we are at about the 27th January......  I'm now looking for when exactly Tanja got to visit DR Vincent Tabak???

Range of date 1/1/2011 to 30/1/2011 reveals no results:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tanja+morson+visits+vincent+tabak&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=962&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A30%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

Range of dates up until 8th Feb 2011:  https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tanja+morson+visits+vincent+tabak&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=962&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A08%2F02%2F2011&tbm=

It is NOT until the suspposed confession that I believe Tanja Morson EVENTUALLY gets access to her BOYFRIED Dr Vincent Tabak along with his family:

Quote
THE girlfriend of Jo Yeates’ alleged killer emerges from a prison visit — on
the same day as the tragic 25-year-old’s funeral.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/369964/accuseds-girl-visits-jail-as-jo-is-laid-to-rest/


That timing was well done Mr Policeman...!!

When he appeared for his hearing at Bristol... they did it from a video link from LONG LARTON!!!

Quote
Tabak, an architectural engineer who lived next door to Yeates in Bristol, appeared in court via video link from Long Lartin prison in Worcestershire.
His solicitor has changed to CLEGG!!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jan/31/joanna-yeates-funeral-vincent-tabak 

Again look at the timing of what is happening!!!!!!

So we are at the 31st January so 11 days without seeing family and friends?????

Was the first time he was allowed to see them the 14 FEB 2011????????

IF CJ says: 3 days is hard...

We are possibly talking 25 days that Dr vincent Tabak did not have any contact with his family and freinds!!!!!!!!!!
I hope this is not the case..

has anyoneone got any evidence that dr vincent Tabak had access to family and friends and when it was !!!!!

So we have now been sat in a GOLDFISH BOWL for the best part of 11 days ... when the helpful MR BROTHERTON wants to ease your PLIGHT......

Now at this part of your incarceraction, even though you may not be Religous.. you might be slightly PLEASED to see A MAN OF THE CLOTH!!!

But... Mr Brotherton WASN"T.......!!!!

So just maybe... it puts into context Dr Vincent Tabak's reaction to Mr Brotherton....

Quote
Mr Brotherton, who has been visiting prisoners since 1975, said "there was a little bit of anger"

A bit of Anger!!!!! MY God.... Dr Vincent Tabak has had no access to anyone familiar to him.... then the Man Pretending to be a Chaplain has just tricked him!!!!!!!

Seriously how many days are we talking that Dr Vincent Tabak didn't get access To Family and Friends????

By my calculations it must be... 20th Jan 2011 to possibly 14th Feb 2011 = 25 days!!!!!!!!!!!

So...... How do you imagine this poor man feels right at this moment???

I bet he's not enjoying British Hospitality!!!!!

Now... the Police have the so called confession from Brotherton.... (he doesn't deserve to be called MR..) (IMO)

And what do they do NOW....

Start to build their imaginary case IN MY OPINION!!!!!

So we then go to MAY.... and Amazingly Dr Vincent Tabak enters a Plea!!!

Up until this point this man has said he is INNOCENT!!!!!

He goes to court at............. THE OLD BAILEY!!!!! via video link from long lartin....

Why did he not appear in PERSON??????

Why didn't it happen in Bristol???

All his other Apperances were in Bristol... even his murder trial!!!!!!!

Ah... stops him seeing family and friends and anyone else who might have been able to help or influence Dr Vincent Tabak on his RIGHTS!!!!!!

You couldn't make this stuff up if you were writting a story.......

Quote
Dutch engineer Vincent Tabak pleaded guilty to manslaughter during a brief hearing at the Old Bailey in London... Miss Yeates’s parents, David and Teresa, were in Court 2 of the Old Bailey to witness Tabak – who was appearing by videolink from Long Lartin prison where he is on remand – admit to killing their 25-year-old daughter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8496027/Dutch-engineer-Vincent-Tabak-admits-I-did-kill-Jo-Yeates.html

WELL..... what else did they do to him inbetween the visit from the phoney chaplain... and him pleading guilty to MANSLAUGHTER....

Because in my opinion... they have shown Dr Vincent Tabak... that they can do pretty much anything?????

Is this when they told him they could charge him with CHILD PORN!!! its not beyond the releams of possibility....

They could have told this man anything to get him to CONFESS..........

When did he get access to his solicitor... CLEGG originally ???????????? we know he lost  COOK at some point !!!!!!

And in my opinion... thats exactly what they did..... Got him to confess to something he didn't do....


You now have to understand that once he agrees to confess ....

He needs to sign a statemment to say he's admitting guilt!!!!!!

Once the statement is signed..... HELL OR HIGH WATER will not change this.....

Only NEW evidence at trial.... something the defence could use to PROVE that it was a FALSE CONFESSION!!!!!

LIKE THE 1300 PAGE DOCUMENT!!!!

Dr Vincent Tabak probably thought he'd have a bit more chance at a FAIR trial......
But It wasn't fair was it.....

No CJ as a witness
No Tanja as a witness
No Family as a witness
 NO 1300 page document till the day of trial that would go to proving your innocence....

No one checking the credentials of the Prosecution witness's...

SO... where was the fair trial.......

And in the eyes of the LAW.... A PRISONERS CONFESSION should not be accepted if the PRISONER WAS under DURESS!!!!

Well going from the behaviour of the Police and the prosecution.... I Say that Dr Vincent Tabak WAS under DURESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lucky man 3 prisons in 48 hours AND a man pretending to be a prison chaplain and no family to have contact with:

We British really know how to treat our European Brothers!!!!!!!

EDIT:  As A Forgein National.. did they contact the embassy for him??????

Quote
9. Contacting your embassy or consulate
If you are not British, you can tell the police that you want to contact your High
Commission, Embassy or Consulate to tell them where you are and why you
are in the police station. They can also visit you in private or arrange for a
solicitor to see you.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/332266/CodeC-NoRE.pdf

Quote
Access to the evidence if your case goes to Court
 If you are charged with an offence, you or your solicitor must be
allowed to see the evidence against you as well as evidence which
may help your defence. This must be done before your trial starts.
The police and the Crown Prosecution Service are responsible for
arranging this and providing access to relevant documents and
materials.

Think this applys to the 1300 PAGE DOCUMENT... Don't you???????

Before the trial starts???? Not dumped on the lap of the defence on the day of trial then???????!!!!!
Didn't think they could do that!!!!



EDIT:
Quote
He was charged with murder on Saturday evening.

I believe I read he was arrested on Thursday 20th January 2011 at 5:55am

So if they Arrested him on the Saturday evening.. they have gone past the hours they had to hold him without charge!!!!

Even if they got an extension 36 hours from Thursday 20th January 2011 at 5:55am

Friday 21st `January 2011 at 5:55am =24 hrs
Saturday 21st January 2011 at 5:55am = 48 hr And add more until the evening.....

What extension did they get to hold Dr Vincent Tabak?????????

Quote
Jurors also heard evidence from Detective Constable Geoffrey Colvin, who had arrested Tabak before dawn at a flat in Aberdeen Road, Cotham, Bristol, where he had been staying.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-killer-confessed-to-chaplain-2372235.html


Quote
2. How long you can be held in custody
The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.

They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.

You can be held without charge for up to 14 days If you’re arrested under the Terrorism Act.



https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/how-long-you-can-be-held-in-custody
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on December 14, 2016, 06:31:04 AM
A cell with a Perspex door indicates they are following the rules and applying a duty of care for Tabak's safety not the opposite you assume! As the move itself implies!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 14, 2016, 11:42:18 AM
  This is a transcript of the Video in the telegraph dated 5th January 2011....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240280/Joanna-Yeates-murder-police-face-criticism.html

It is the Policeman in charge making a statement...

Quote
At this time, I cannot say where or when Jo was killed..... Or when her body was left on Longwood Lane... The significant snowfall in the early hours of Saturday 18th Dec.. has a conciderable impact on this..

And I'm working with a number of Forensic Specialists to determine the timings.. We Have had a number of reports of vehicles on Longwood Lane... During the late friday evening... And early hours of Saturday morning...Including a possible light coloured 4x4 vehicle..This 4x4 and other vehicles maybe completeley unconnected...

But I urge anyone in that car or any other driver in the Vicinity that night to come forward....
I know there was  large christmas functions taking place at Long Ashton Golf Club... Bristol and Clifton Golf Club...And Red Wood Lodge...

I again would urge taxi drivers who used the road to call......... They may have information that could prove vital....
Detail surrounding the pizza and the Cider are relevant...... And I appreciate have been an on going interest..

What I can tell you is we still haven't found the pizza, we have searched bins in the aarea and we are working through 292 tonnes of domestic rubbish seized in the vacinity....

This is a demonstration of the level of detail we are pursuing on this enquiry.....At this stage... It is not absolutley clear whether Jo had eaten the Pizza... We continue to work with experts to detemine this..... I can assure you we are determined to solve this crime and bring Jo's killers to justice

Again I'm going to break the statement up:

Quote
At this time, I cannot say where or when Jo was killed..... Or when her body was left on Longwood Lane... The significant snowfall in the early hours of Saturday 18th Dec.. has a considerable impact on this..

So.... why is he not sure WHERE... Joanna Yeates was killed????? He's been insisting it was in her Flat!!

And  we know he hasn't got a clue as to WHEN????? maybe that will become apparent??

Why does the snowfall have an impact on this???? How much was under her?????


Quote
And I'm working with a number of Forensic Specialists to determine the timings.. We Have had a number of reports of vehicles on Longwood Lane... During the late friday evening... And early hours of Saturday morning...Including a possible light coloured 4x4 vehicle..This 4x4 and other vehicles maybe completeley unconnected...

Forensic Specialists.... Lyndsey Lennen Maybe??? What timings exactly is he trying to determine???

Whether it was possible for Dr Vincent Tabak to have put Joanna Yeates on Longwood lane on the Friday 17th Dec 2010??

Why are they just concentrating on vehicles that where seen on Longwood Lane on the Friday night and Saturday Morning.... what about any other sightings after that...

Just vehicle reported on the Friday 17th Dec and Saturday the 18th dec 2010.???? No other times or other days??????

Lets not forget ,, he does say:

 
Quote
At this time, I cannot say where or when Jo was killed..... Or when her body was left on Longwood Lane...

Why not ask the public if they have seen anything from the time it was possible for Jo to disappear and the time that she was found !!!!

You can see he's decided that it has to be Friday or Saturday that she was deposited at Longwood Lane ....... He has totlally ignored the fact that she could had been put there later?? of died later?

Quote
But I urge anyone in that car or any other driver in the Vicinity that night to come forward....
I know there was  large christmas functions taking place at Long Ashton Golf Club... Bristol and Clifton Golf Club...And Red Wood Lodge...

So ... Longwood Lane had LOADS of TRAFFIC going up and down it on Friday 17th December 2010.....

Now wouldn't it have been Advisable for Dr Vincent Tabak.... to have used his vast knowledge of space awareness... his cunning his meticulous attention to detail... To think that Longwood Lane with it's narrow Road and narrow verges would be the perfect spot to leave Joanna Yeates.....

I know they say he tried to lift her over the wall.....

But with Andrew Mott waving his unweildly Broom Handle about, I'm not truly convinced how the blood ended up on top of the wall......

WHY is The Policeman determined that it was  Friday the 17th Dec that someone must have seen something???

Remember he's just said he didn't know when Joanna Yeates was Left in Longwood lane,...

But on the Other hand he wants everyone and anyone who was in Longwood Lane on Friday the 17th to LET HIM KNOW!!!!!
The Date of this video is 5th January 2011..... They had no clue at this point....

But... he is  persuading us that she must have been left there on Friday the 17th Dec 2010...

Has he forgotten this IMPORTANT siting:
Quote
When Jo’s body was found 48 hours later, Marilyn realised the importance of what she had seen and her husband Phillip reported the van driver’s suspicious behaviour on the Crimestoppers number.

Worried Marilyn took our reporter back to the spot where she saw the suspicious van driver.

So this was on the 23 Rd December 2010 that this Lady has reported this sighting.. seems significant... Did he just ignore this sighting??

Quote
She said: “I came out of the gate at the end of the path and noticed a man sitting in a white van.

“At first I thought it was my ­husband, because he always picks me up at the bottom of the road after I’ve finished my walk.

“He also drives a van, but when I looked at it, I realised it wasn’t him. It was smaller than his van.

“The man was parked in the lay-by outside the quarry gates. It’s only a few steps from where Jo’s body was found and is where all the flowers are now, next to the wall.

This is very accurate to where Joanna Yeates was found...  there is a gate oppsite... and not the one I have attached a picture of.....

Quote
The van had a square-type top and was fairly small, and white in colour. I described it later in detail to my husband and he said it sounded like a Citroën Berlingo or a Vauxhall Astramax.

“There was a man sitting in the driver’s seat with his elbow up on the window frame. But it was a left-hand drive which I thought was weird at the time.

“He was wearing a woolly hat, like a beanie, which was dark grey and knitted like a tea cosy. I couldn’t see what else he was wearing, and I only got a side view of him, but I would guess he was in his late twenties to early thirties.
She even give a discription.... This was never mentioned ..And if Joanna Yeates was Thawing as Andrew Mott says.. she could have been put on Longwood Lane nearer to when she was found!!!!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cops-hunting-a-white-van-man-1694868

He wants people to think it's still CJ and as we now know Dr Vincent Tabak!!!!

There where so many other sites along the way........ Why not somewhere else??

Infact ... I'll still insist.. that statistically, a stranger moving a body from the scene of crime doesn't happen..... Let alone moving it several times....

Your trying to tell me... after being this calculating MURDERER that he decided not to think out where to leave the body?????

Quote
But I urge anyone in that car or any other driver in the Vicinity that night to come forward....
I know there was  large christmas functions taking place at Long Ashton Golf Club... Bristol and Clifton Golf Club...And Red Wood Lodge...


Again.... he's saying Friday the 17th Decemebr is the time...
Do NOT forget he thinks CJ did at this point still!!!!!!

So....... did she go to any of these events????? Nobody has said how she left the Flat ??

Lets look at where these places are in conjuction to where she was found on Longwood Lane ;

I've attached 2 pics... one is an ariel view of Longwood Lane and surrounding areas and the other is the opening at the other side of the quarry.. which has an entrance leading up to Ashton Court Golf Club...

The entrance is not too far away from where Joanna Yeates was found...!!!!!

I know the Policeman didn't mention this... But it's just as feasible that someone brought her down that way and not up/down Longwood Lane.... And did this on a completely different day!!!!

Quote
Detail surrounding the pizza and the Cider are relevant...... And I appreciate have been an on going interest..

He doesn't know where the pizza is....!!!!! But why is the CIDER relevant??????

It's because Mr Policeman hasn't told the general public, that a different cider to what Joanna Yeates purchased was found in the flat...

HEALEY"S cider 750ml  and a TATTINGER REIMS CHAMPAGNE CORK!!!!!!!!

The cider was never really made a big detail... it wasn't being looked for in the rubbish... So he definetaley knows the Cider in the Flat was not the cider she bought.........

AND.............. Nowhere in any statement or court apperance do the prosecution ask Dr Vincent Tabak about the bottle of HEALEY"S cider and the TATTINGER REIMS CHAMPAGNE CORK..........


How exactly do you explain these items Mr Policeman?????????????????

Quote
What I can tell you is we still haven't found the pizza, we have searched bins in the aarea and we are working through 292 tonnes of domestic rubbish seized in the vacinity....

This is a demonstration of the level of detail we are pursuing on this enquiry.....At this stage... It is not absolutley clear whether Jo had eaten the Pizza... We continue to work with experts to detemine this..... I can assure you we are determined to solve this crime and bring Jo's killers to justice

Is this an exerise in letting the public know your attention to detail..... What exactly would this pizza box have shown????

You would have no viable DNA on it... it would be contaminated with all of the other rubbish...
And if you didn't find a single FINGERPRINT of Dr Vincent Tabak in the Flat... then what are you expecting this Pizza Box to reveal....????

They do not reveal about the sock until the afternoon statement!!!!



Quote
What I can tell you is we still haven't found the pizza, we have searched bins in the aarea and we are working through 292 tonnes of domestic rubbish seized in the vacinity....

Now remember this quote and the date of the article....








[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 14, 2016, 02:23:19 PM
               I Am Going To Start Explaining The Searches Dr Vincent Tabak Was Supposed To Have Made!!


I did want you to remember this quote and the timing of the release of the Video....

Quote
What I can tell you is we still haven't found the pizza, we have searched bins in the aarea and we are working through 292 tonnes of domestic rubbish seized in the vacinity....

8:20AM GMT 05 Jan 2011:

And this quote:

Quote
By Gordon Rayner, and Martin Evans By Gordon Rayner, and Martin Evans 1By Gordon Rayner, and Martin Evans 12:58PM GMT 05 Jan 2011
Det Ch Insp Phil Jones said it was possible the killer had kept the grey knee-length ski sock as a macabre trophy, and issued an urgent appeal to the public to help find it in the hope that it could be the vital clue that will crack the case.
12:58PM GMT 05 Jan 2011

I'm having to work out approximateley when the time lines relate to what date???

Quote
At Line 340 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled on 26 Dec 2010
 

So with the quote above from Dr Vincent Tabak line 340 of the timeline is the 26 th Decemeber 2010

Quote
At Line 368 of the prosecution chart
Tabak searched for the Press release about
‘domestic rubbish’
‘Yeates’
‘architect’s killer’
‘maps for Clifton Road’
‘Clifton Road rubbish’
‘393 tons of rubbish trawled through’
‘household collections- Bristol City Council’
‘recycling’

So we have jumped 28 timelines at this point: to get to when the Police release the video dated 5th January 2010 to talk about the 292 tonnes of rubbish they have trawlled through???

Does the timeline mean the 5th January 2011??? or the 3rd from the press article??

Remember the press release was at 8:20AM GMT 05 Jan 2011: Wednesday

So where is Dr Vincent Tabak at 8:20pm on 5th January 2011..... well he's either on his way to work or about to leave...

Why doesn't it say on home computer??? we still don't know if that timeline is the 5th January 2011!!!!

If this search is on the 5th January... where is his search that says PIZZA!!!! Even if it's before where;'s the Pizza search???

I think he went to work around 9;00am normally: 

Quote
Defence Counsel: What time do you leave for work?
Tabak: 9.00 am.


That was on a different day so I don't know if that applys to his usual time for leaving work....

Quote
At Line 369 of the prosecution search
Tabak searched for the words
‘amounts of rubbish seized’

Now.... Dr Vincent Tabak is an incredibliy intelligent man... he has PHD's... etc....

Again... it's the DETAIL...... well if on line 368 it says the amount of rubbish being:

Quote
‘393 tons of rubbish trawled through


And notice it's not even the correct amount of tonnage..........

Why on line 369... would he then search

 
Quote
Tabak searched for the words
‘amounts of rubbish seized’

Hello aren't we talking about a highly educated man here???????????

Why would he look after for the amounts of rubbish seized if he already knows how much rubbish was searched!!!!!!!  Der.......

Up until the about 5th January 2011 Nothing had been mentioned about the grey ski sock:

A range of date between 26th Dec 2010 and 4th January 2011:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=missing+sock+found+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A26%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A04%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

Nothing .... so the first mention is at the media conference on the 5th January 2011 at 12:58PM GMT ??????

Quote
At Line 369 of the prosecution search
Tabak searched for the words
‘amounts of rubbish seized’
 At Line 372 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled the words
‘BCC household rubbish collections’
 At Line 376 of the prosecution chart
Tabak’s research was categorised by the police analyst into ‘
‘Google’
‘forensic’
‘location’

At Line 378 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled the word
‘Yeates’
Tabak went to Google map and searched for the words
‘Clifton Bristol’
‘woods and surrounding area’
Then Tabak Googled the words
‘average rubbish per person in UK’
‘Yeates’
‘rubbish’
 At Line 382 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled
‘Yeates pizza’
‘Avon police seize rubbish’
‘Yeates
‘Sky news images’
‘Yeates’
‘police’
Tabak also searchedhe BBC news article for
‘missing sock when found’
‘Avon & Somerset police’
Then Tabak researched for a Dutch article of ‘18 year sentence for murder’


I've done it this way because we're trying to establish when timeline 368 and 369 is: they could be the 3rd January 2011..  I found an article on that date....

Because next we have:

Quote
On 5 Jan 2011 lunchtime, Tabak Googled
‘press coverage’
At 3.05 pm, Tabak Googled the words
‘press coverage’
‘missing sock’

And again before that he searched
Quote
At Line 382 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled
‘Yeates pizza’
‘Avon police seize rubbish’
‘Yeates
‘Sky news images’
‘Yeates’
‘police’
Tabak also searchedhe BBC news article for
‘missing sock when found’
‘Avon & Somerset police’
Then Tabak researched for a Dutch article of ‘18 year sentence for murder’

Why would he search ‘missing sock when found’.... very specific on line 382

When they then say:

 
Quote
On 5 Jan 2011 lunchtime, Tabak Googled

That sounds like he has searched for the sock before the news of the sock was divulged??????? It was never found... it was never proven to have anything to do with a trophy.....

Thats what they want us to think....

I'd have been more inclinced to believe the search if he'd put HEALEY"S CIDER!!!!

Also what an odd search
Quote
‘missing sock when found’


Why when found???? What is it going to reveal.... Remember they say that he put it in the rubbish so it will be as contaminated as the Pizza box in all that RUBBISH!!!!!

You think his concern would be what they found in the Flat if he had been in it!!!!!!

The other odd thing is that there are only 28 timelines between=

26th Dec 2010 which is timeline 340

3rd ish January which is timeline 368

because we know that timeline 382 is where he supposed to check for the sock!!!

When is timeline 382??????

He apparently did nothing according to this from 26th Dec 2010 timeline 340 and about the 3rd January timeline 369.... only 26 timeline for about a week...!!!!!

What is GLARING OBVIOUSLY missing from these SEARCHES???????????????

(1): There is No search on CJ

(2) There is NO CONCERN about DNA

(3)  There is no search on what CAR drove where!!!

(4) There is no extra searches of Longwood Lane (i'll explain later)

(5) No searches for Asda CCTV coverage

We Know that he gave a DNA in Holland on the 31st Dec 2010.... So why not the concern before or up until the 5th January 2011?????

Where are the searches about Cj's arrest... where are the Searches about the forensic's on the DOOR????

Why isn't he..... CONSTANTLY CHECKING THE INTERNET AT THIS POINT!!!!!!!!!

Remember the Police woman said when she saw Dr Vincent Tabak in Holland on the 31st January 2011:

Quote
He was Vague in some area's... He was over interested in other area's, Particulary around our Forensic examination...
There was things in his account that just didn't seem right.... to me.
And then his reluctance to give his DNA at the end of the process.......  Again started to Ring Alarm Bells

So he's so interested in the Forensic's and every detail of this investigation, by the 5th January 2011... he hasn't
even checked out whether the DNA sample he gave in Holland on the 31st Dec 2010 would be a PROBLEM to him??????


You would think between Line 340 and line 368... if Dr Vincent Tabak was worried about DNA samples he's of been checking that all the time and the Prosecution would have JUMPED ON IT!!!!!!!!

Quote
On 5 Jan 2011 lunchtime, Tabak Googled
‘press coverage’
At 3.05 pm, Tabak Googled the words
‘press coverage’
‘missing sock’
At 4.03, Tabak searched online newspaper articles for the words
‘frozen DNA’
‘rubbish collection Clifton 23 December 2010’

They manage to get to the DNA .....  So suddenley after all this time he then thinks .... Hang on a wee moment there.... I'll check about frozen DNA... but I won't check whether the Police have a right to use the sample I gave them on the 31st Dec 2010...... 

And will they need to take another sample if they Arrest me????

To me these searches sound like someone following the case..... OR these searches weren't actually on Dr Vincent Tabak's computer!!

No search for DNA up until the 5th January 2011?????? I wonder what line number that search is????

Quote
At Line 376 of the prosecution chart
Tabak’s research was categorised by the police analyst into ‘
‘Google’
‘forensic’
‘location’
 

Line 376 does not mean that Dr Vincent Tabak Catergorised these events into GOOGLE..... FORENSICS.... LOCATION.....

It is the POLICE who do this at TIMELINE 376.... So if a jury member isn't on the ball they might just write these words down and the timeline number!!!

It would give the impression that Dr Vincent Tabak looked at these things on timeline 376

When we already know.. that he didn't look at FORENSICS by timeline 382!!!!!

But it's been planted in the minds of the JURY!!!!

That line of 376 should have been clarified by the DEFENCE!!

Quote
He was Vague in some area's... He was over interested in other area's, Particulary around our Forensic examination...

So what possible other area's has Dr Vincent Tabak got an over interest in.....

(1): Time of Death??
(2): Finger print analysis???
(3): What CJ could have told the Police
(4): The  Front Door of Joanna Yeates???
(5):CCTV Footage of Clifton Suspension Bridge
(6):CCtV footage in and around Clifton:
(7):Asda CCtv
(8): Cars seen On Longwood Lane
(9): A Man actiing suspiciously on Longwood Lane on Friday 17th Dec 2010
(10):How much DNA gets leftbehind in the scene of crime
(11) EU Law and extradition....

I could go on......

Quote
At 4.03, Tabak searched online newspaper articles for the words
‘frozen DNA’

Now this is almost laughable..... That was the HEADLINE from the NEWSPAPER (Only in the sense of the words FROZEN DNA)....

Quote
Police hope frozen DNA sample on body will solve Joanna's murder as they warn women 'not to go out alone after dark'

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343462/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Police-hope-frozen-DNA-sample-body-solve-murder.html#ixzz4SorklMZS    UPDATED:   19:19, 3 January 2011

This is the only article on the words "FROZEN DNA" and the time is 19:19 .....

How many articles did he search????
A Range of dates from 17/12/2010 till 5th January 2011 only give you one result:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=frozen+DNa&biw=1920&bih=1006&espv=2&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A17%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A05%2F01%2F2011&tbm=


Now if this article was available on the 3rd January 2011 AND.... Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to be following every single move of this investigation......

WHY.... did he wait 2 DAYS to check about the FROZEN DNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You see by this point you would have thought Dr Vincent Tabak would not of hung around Britain, if he was the supposed murderer:

Quote
Defence Counsel: Then in Holland the English police took your DNA. What did you think
would happen?
Tabak: I was thinking I would be arrested anytime.
Defence Counsel: Do you know what DNA is?
Tabak: Yes.
Defence Counsel: What did you think if they found DNA on Joanna?
Tabak: A sure match.
 

If he SAYS.... when he's in court that the DNA Sample he gave on the 31st December 2010 would be a sure match....

WHY is he not planning his escape to Holland?????????

Why don't his early searches indicate that he was trying to flee to Holland????

Remember 48 hours to turn around all the samples ... So... this sample may not have even been tested!!!!

He knows what DNA is:....... So you would think he'd do a search more relevant to himself!!!


Remember this from the 5th January 2011: The Policeman says KILLERS....

Quote
He said: "I can assure you, we are determined to solve this crime, and bring Jo's killers to justice."

Lets see how Dr Vincent Tabak's other searches change after this date of 5th Decemeber 2010

Dr Vincent Tabak doesn't look too over interested in the case up until the 5th January 2010!!!!!!

For a man feverishly following everything so he could cover his TRACKS!!!!! He looks like he 's not that fussed!!!!


EDIT:
Quote
Jo Yeates' body missing a sock when found, say police

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12117460


he wouldn't search it like it was a google search... why is it written like a google search when he's clicked on an Article??????

Quote
Tabak also searchedhe BBC news article for
‘missing sock when found’


The Article isn't worded like that!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 14, 2016, 06:13:55 PM
Just because a search has a date stamp to it.... doesn't mean that was the date that something took place:

I've attached 3 screenshots of one of my post today and I brought up my mac date and time ... I changed the date them to the year 2014 and different months :

It's easy enough to do anyone can do it by changing the time stamp.... I didn't join this forum in 2014

The date is shown from my notifications bar.... for some reason the stock and shares have stayed the same...

Anyway at the top of each screen shot will be the date and time I have changed them too.....

Screenshot : 2014-09-09  at 00.45.33
Screenshot : 2014-12-13  at 16.43.04
Screenshot : 2014-12-15  at 16.44.08

So anyone can change anything on a computer....

This is why the searches shouldn't be accepted into evidence .....

Unless they are independently verified by Independant EXPERT.... for both the Prosecution and the Defence

By Having a completley independant IT expert it  would stop any issues of either side saying that the computer evidence has been tampered with.....

Once you change data... some of it you won't be able to retrieve........ 

Personally I would not allow computer searches into evidence .. they are not very safe....... And they don't show intent!!!!

By demonstrating this... I can say that all Dr Vincent Tabak the Computer expert only needed to Change the Date and time on his computer so that his searches didn't have timestamps relevant to the Joanna Yeates Case...

If he was trying to hide evidence. he could easily have done that..... Altenatively... he could have gone back over to Holland and dumped all of his hard drives... they would never have found them!!!!!

Another thing I would like to point out about searches people do, I think they are quite personal....

People tend to search for things in the same way:... For instance when I'm trying to find something on google.... I would more than likely write a whole sentence...

So ....... How does Dr Vincent Tabak search???????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 14, 2016, 08:33:41 PM
I was going to edit my post about searches...

But when I was looking at it again... The First search doesn't make sense??

Quote
At Line 368 of the prosecution chart
Tabak searched for the Press release about
‘domestic rubbish’
‘Yeates’
‘393 tons of rubbish trawled through’
‘household collections- Bristol City Council’
‘recycling’

How is that a GOOGLE SEARCH????????????

Remember on line :

Quote
At Line 376 of the prosecution chart
Tabak’s research was categorised by the police analyst into ‘
‘Google’
‘forensic’
‘location’

The POLICE ANAYLSIST  split the searches into 3 CATERGORIES.... GOOGLE.... FORENSICS.....LOCATION

So how did they show that he used google to search for press releases on rubbish...???

Does it say: To find these Dr Vincent Tabak.... put the words into google then clicked on NEWS?????

Because when you start a search in google you have to go on google first before you get an option to look at news relating to your search... But It doesn't say he went on Google first????

so.....
Quote
At Line 368 of the prosecution chart
Tabak searched for the Press release about
‘domestic rubbish’
‘Yeates’

 How did he search for PRESS RELEASES specifically?????

They lumped that lot together without explanation!!!!!

So which online Newspapers did he search????

That is a bizarre way to search????

Is that even POSSIBLE???

I honestly CAN NOT see how that is even possible????

Can anyone shed some light how you can search for PRESS RELEASE about anything without searching google first???
 If he had some sort of news app he could be looking at the News for that day...

But that is not searching???

I'm stumped!!!!!

Because it's not until LINE 376: That the prosecution even says about which Catergories these searches are supposed to be split up into????

AND Press Releases is LINE 368

Ah...... WAS that so They jury would put these searches into CATERGORIES themselves and say:

Look as early as 3rd January he searched for tonnes of Rubbish??? (I'll put that under Google)

AHA... I think that was away to influence the `Jury (IMO)

Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 14, 2016, 09:18:30 PM
Oh My Goodness.... I had to do this one...

Quote
On 6 Jan 2011, Tabak researched the words
Pizza box
Tabak Googled the words
‘Rubbish collection York Place Clifton Bristol’
‘Jo Yeates rubbish’
 At 4.10 (pm) Tabak searched on Wikipedia for the words
‘Detention of a suspect’
‘letter and label sent to a public house’


This search doesn't make sense.....

But the idea about does work.....

 I'll explain..... I had google in my head so i went to search google for the letter and label sent to pub!!!

So I checked my normal way: Range of dates: 1st January 2011 to the 6th January 2011:... I got this:...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=letter+and+label+sent+to+a+public+house%E2%80%99&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=966&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

I thought I remember something about a letter being sent to a pub... So i looked again:..

Quote
A letter making reference to murder victim Joanna Yeates and containing a torn-off pizza label was sent to the pub where she enjoyed a final drink with colleagues, it has emerged.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8250162/Joanna-Yeates-murder-letter-containing-pizza-label-sent-to-pub-where-architect-had-final-drink.html

It's DATED 10th January........

But that isn't really the funny part of the search.......

Why on Earth would he search:

 
Quote
At 4.10 (pm) Tabak searched on Wikipedia for the words
‘Detention of a suspect’
‘letter and label sent to a public house’

Why would Dr Vincent Tabak be searching WIKI for the Letter and label sent to a Public house?????

How the hell will WIKI help him......

(1) Does wiki give tips on how to send this label

(2) Does wiki tell you how to package these items

(3) will wiki tell you when the label and pizza arrived at the pub....

So two Questions here: How would he know about the Pizza and the label before it was released to the press..

And why would he search WIKI???

Another thought.... If they are implying that Dr Vincent Tabak sent those items to the pub... Then why didn't they get brought to court as evidence....!!!!!!

So like I said before .. if the Jury have the three catergories of GOOGLE... FORENSIC.....LOCATION

Which catergory will they put the WIKI search under??????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 15, 2016, 12:01:49 PM
I think when you look at the earlier Police Press conferences... even if they do not give loads of information or detail.. They are probably the more acurate as to what is and has happened on a daily basis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8noQpXm0HQU


I want to try and understand how they went from this:


Avon and Somerset Police Conference: Police Announce death of Joanna:

They are taking questions: At 7:13 mins

DATED 28th December 2010:

Caroline from The Daily Telegraph:

Quote
Was there any other marks on Joanna's body aside from round her neck?

The Policemans's Reply:

Quote
Nothing significant.... As I said the cause of death was a erm.. was er.a compression to the neck which was strangulation..erm and the cause of death

Caroline:

Quote
No marks on her at all?

The Policeman:
Quote
Well erm... Nothing significant

How did it go from that original STATEMENT that there were no significant injuries to joanna Yeates to:.......


Headline in the Evening standard:

Quote
Joanna Yeates suffered 43 injuries in desperate fight against strangler'
Tuesday 11 October 2011

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/joanna-yeates-suffered-43-injuries-in-desperate-fight-against-strangler-6452369.html

I have done a Range of dates From: 28/10/2010 to 31/1/2011 And there is nothing about these injuries in the newspapers!!!!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

Again nothing there really...

Range of Dates From: 26/12/2010 to 10/2/2011 .....

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F02%2F2011&tbm=

Just one article ... but i think its a list of stories ...So the injures where not available to be see then:

It  takes you to this: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/briefing/joanna_yeates/

Range of Dates From 26th December 2010 to 28/2/2011 :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A28%2F02%2F2011&tbm=

Nothing again:......  I'm starting to wonder when I will find an Article relating to the 43 Injuries!!!

Range of Dates 26/12/2010 to 31/3/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F03%2F2011&tbm=

There is very little available at this point!!!!

Range of dates 26/12/2010 to 30/4/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A30%2F04%2F2011&tbm=

Again NOTHING!!!!!!!!

Range of Dates 26/12/2010 to 31/5/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F05%2F2011&tbm=

Again Nothing... By this Point you think the media would have been all over it!!!!

Lets not FORGET Dr Vincent Tabak has been to court and pleaded guilty to manslaughter in May... Nothing mentioned in the NewsPapers about the 43 injuries at all up until now!!!!

Range of Dates from 26/12/2010 to 30/9/2011 :

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=43+injuries+to+joanna+yeates&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=922&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A28%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A30%2F09%2F2011&tbm=

NOTHING AT ALL.... till be go to October...... you then get Articles....

Quote
'Joanna Yeates suffered 43 injuries in desperate fight against strangler'

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/joanna-yeates-suffered-43-injuries-in-desperate-fight-against-strangler-6452369.html


Why in the very begining did the Police Not Mention This!!!!!!!


It's like another THING to Bolster there case against Dr Vincent Tabak ... (IMO)

Remember Andrew Mott and his unweldly Broom Handle .. prodding and poking!!!!!!

Lets really think about the Implications of this:......

If the discrription of these injuries have been enhanced  and they are marks from bumping herself....  anything that might leave a mark...( Plus obvious signs of strangulation..)

For instance Did she slip on her way home... treacherous weather according to the Police... so its not in the realms of possibility:

Have they made out for court that these INJURIES were CAUSED by Dr Vincent Tabak and this is not accurate!!!

How on earth must Joanna Parents feel having to listen to such inaccuracies...

We Remember Tanja Nickson... it didn't stop her showing a motuary picure in the court to Bolster her wall evidence...
These Photographs of joanna Yeates had already been shown to the jury on the Friday and Joanna Yeates Parents had KEPT away from court so they did not see such distressing Pictures of there daughter:

But..... That didn't stop Tanja Nickson showing the Pictures when she had no need too!! And causing massive distress to the Family...!!!!

Again i'm slightly stumped how we went from:

Quote
Well erm... Nothing significant

TO:......

Quote
Joanna Yeates suffered 43 injuries in desperate fight against strangler'


When someone is strangled there are always certain injuries associated with that...

I still believe it was someone who Jo knew!!!

If she was fighting back.. someone must have had scratches ...marks on them... she just didn't let someone do this!!!

Did they check Dr Vincent Tabak for this when they first saw him.... Did Tanja notice anything on Dr Vincent  Tabak!!!


Did they just SENSATIONALISE the injuries......  This poor girl...... And poor family...

In someway I hope i'm wrong.... Because it would be a terrible blow to the Yeates Family....

But i Cannot Get over the HEALEYS Cider in the Flat and the TATTINGER REIM Champagne cork also... The photographs of these items were zoomed in at... they were on the Table in the alchove when, the Police allowed the media in to view the crime scene after the Jury had just seen it!!!

Why has nobody NOTICED or MENTIONED these items before???????

What happened to the Original Bottles of Cider that Joanna Yeates Purchased??????

Also Mr Reardon had removed all of his possesions from the flat before the Jury saw it..... If these items were connected to him and Jo he surely would have taken them!!!!

EDIT:   The blood from her nose.... which Apparently was on top of the wall at Longwood Lane....

If this injury was caused by Dr Vincent Tabak in Joanna Yeates Flat....

Where are the Blood samples from the Flat of Joanna Yeates being in a fight and struggle...

THERE are no blood samples from Joanna Yeates that were collected from her Flat!!!!!

So how comes Dr Vincent Tabak manages to get some in the BOOT!!!

There were No evidence of BLOOD in Dr Vincent Tabaks Flat either????

Does that not suggest that this attack may have happened elsewhere???????

The Prosecution NEVER suggested that Dr Vincent Tabak was doing a CLEAN UP of his or Joanna Yeates flat... They say he just took the PIZZA AND THE SOCK!!!!!!!!

So.... Where is the BLOOD!!!!!


Double EDIT:   Just a thought!.. It was never REALLY Established that this was a SEXUALLY MOTIVATED  Attack.......

And all signs are that Joanna Yeates was not SEXUALLY ASSAULTED.........

So All this time they having been LOOKING For A Man who Committed this Crime???

WHAT...... What if it was a WOMAN!!!!!!  Just a thought!!!!!


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 15, 2016, 08:15:20 PM
Like I had done with a post today... I thought I'd go back to the begining to see what was initially said:

And the early reports are quite revealing............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8noQpXm0HQU

Police Announce Murder Inquiry:Launched over death of Joanna Yeates:

At 9:30 mins:
Daily Mirror

Quote
Was Joanna fully clothed when she was found?

Policeman Replies:

Quote
She was clothed .. yes

Remember he said... Clothed

DailyMail Reporter

Quote
Was there anything missing from her person...... er...Items of clothing at all ... like a shoe or?

Policeman Replies:

Quote
erm..She was fully clothed... so..

He SAYS FULLY CLOTHED!!!!

So No SKI SOCK????

At This point he could have said, I'm not at liberty to say!!!

Another Reporter asks:

Quote
Can I just Check.. we heard coat was in that the... was in the same coat she was photographed or caught on CCTV was that in the Flat? Is That Correct?

Policeman Replies:

Quote
Yes..

Reporter Says:

Quote
Did she have a coat on when she was found?

Policeman replies:

Quote
erm... As I said she was fully clothed..

Again... FULLY CLOTHED...... "So nothing missing Mr Policeman!!"

Reporter asks:

Quote
You can't say whether she had a coat on or not.....?

Policeman replies:

Quote
Well I'm not prepared to discuss at this stage..

This is ODD..... 

When did the MISSING SKI SOCK , become Part of the investigation.... ( 5th January if you remember!!!)

He has already said more than once that when they found Joanna Yeates ....She was FULLY CLOTHED!!!!!...

The Reporter even asks if any ITEMS of clothing were missing.... he gives an example of.....LIKE A SHOE!!

The Policeman keeps with that she was FULLY CLOTHED........

So when did the BOOTS suddenly become part of the items left in the flat???  AND The SKI SOCK become the TROPHY???????

WHAT EXACTLY WAS JOANNA YEATES WEARING WHEN THEY FOUND HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because according to the Policeman leading the Investigation... She was fully clothed!!!!!!!!!

What happened in this Investigation!! It's gone from:

FULLY CLOTHED with NO SIGNIFICANT INJURIES

To............

MISSING A SKI SOCK AND 43 Injuries through fighting for her Life?

So did Joanna yeates have a Jacket or something similar on seeing as the Policeman keep saying she was fully clothed....

If that is the case... Does this also prove that Dr Vincent Tabak could NOT have been involved:

It could prove that HIS CONFESSION WAS FALSE!!!!!!!!

What Dr Vincent Tabak said on the witness stand:

Quote
Defence Counsel: After you put the body in the boot of your car, what did you do next?
Tabak: I went back to Joanna’s flat and switched off the TV and the oven; I took away the
sock and the pizza.

I always wonder how she managed to fit those great big socks under her tight boots:..... Her jeans are skin tight and her boots are tight....

The Ski socks are not over her boots... And they would ride around if they weren't secure and slip about... they'd be uncomfortable...

So did she even wear SKI SOCKS??????



EDIT:........ Is THAT WHY ....... there are NO SEARCHES For MISSING SKI SOCKS... On Dr Vincent Tabak's Computer till EARLY JANUARY??????????
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 16, 2016, 11:42:50 AM
Just thought i'd give one more example of changing the date on GOOGLE:

This is from my GOOGLE search HISTORY......

I have one search for "Tabak" Dated Friday 1st January 2038

And the other is a Daily Mail Article Dated today but the time is 5:58PM:

Like I said before.... Dr Vincent Tabak was a Computer Expert....  And I am NOT...

So If it's a piece of cake for me.... Covering his Track he could have easily done the same!!!!


I've done this because... I'd put the time FORWARD and the other examples were BACKWARDS:

And also to show that the DATES would Appear in the GOOGLE HISTORY !!!!

Basically:..... ANY HISTORY .. .. or File that is DOWNLOADED.. Pictures.. Films ....ETC!! can easily be changed by CHANGING the DATE ON ANYONES COMPUTER!!!!!!

As I Have Just demonstrated!!!!!

You could actually do it with Emails that are sent..... But... The Recipient would have the Correct Date That they Recieved it on... So There would be a WAY to challenge someone emails!!!!!

But as for Files on A Computer.. They Are easily enough to CHANGE:.....
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: jixy on December 16, 2016, 12:43:08 PM
changing the time of his searches doesn't really help does it as you have stated before . you said he didn't have time to search but maybe he had more time than you think!

It still doesn't take away his searches or the reasons for them
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 16, 2016, 05:26:29 PM
changing the time of his searches doesn't really help does it as you have stated before . you said he didn't have time to search but maybe he had more time than you think!

It still doesn't take away his searches or the reasons for them


Jixy:.. I have explained the problems with the searches: See Below.......

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7613.msg367908#msg367908

Quote
How could he possibly do a google search at 1:46am  and again at 1:47am when he was seen leaving in Tanja's  hatchback at 1:38am???

I'm sure it would have taken him more than 8 mins to get Tanja, A google map search of Canygne Rd to Park Street , gives a driving time of 6 mins....

he got lost for at least 2 minutes ,Then he rang her for directions... so we now have 0 minutes to find where Tanaj is.... Pick her up go for a burger eat it in the car and drive home....

A quote from the above post:..... There woulld have been No advantage for him changing the time on that search???

He had a witness he was with!!!!

I'm saying the searches are not acurate and what appears relevant isn't!!!!

So how did him searching WIKI help him with the PIZZA LABEL??

Have you ever gone on the Dutch WIKI and put in the word "DOODSLAG"

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodslag&prev=search

Quote
Manslaughter may refer to:

Manslaughter (euthanasia) , the intentional, but not premeditated, ending the life of another

There is more than one definition... .. Is he looking into Euthanasia... you don't know...!!!

Also if you look closely at the Dutch definition it say it says.. THE INTENTIONAL but not PREMEDITATED ending the life os another!!!! So it means EUTHANASIA in HOLLAND.....

Not as we see the word MANSLAUGHTER in ENGLAND!!!

The May Refer to Part is that theres a film in 2012 as another option to choose..... (Irrelevant To Dr Vincent Tabak)

Quote
At Line 271 of the prosecution chart
Tabak searched the Dutch word
‘doodslag’ (English meaning: ‘manslaughter’)

And that's telling you WHAT?????

It's under WIKI as well.... so which Catergory are the Jury going to put it under????

GOOGLE??
FORENSICS??
LOCATION??

There are plenty of searches that could be attributed to him looking at a case on a DUTCHMAN Called: Joran van der Sloot

Here a quote from an Article about him!!

Quote
The judges have 48 hours to render a sentence and the presiding magistrate, Victoria Montoya, said the panel would reconvene Friday to do so.

Van der Sloot's trial opened last week but was adjourned until Wednesday after he asked for more time to decide how to plead. He said then that he did not accept the aggravated murder charges the prosecution sought.

Van der Sloot, who wore faded jeans and an untucked light-blue button-down shirt, had confessed to the May 30, 2010, killing long ago.

He told police shortly after the murder that he killed Flores in a fit of rage after she discovered his connection to the disappearance of Holloway on his laptop while they played poker online.

The defense says it was manslaughter, for which the minimum sentence is 5 years.

http://www.cncpunishment.com/forums/showthread.php?4635-Natalee-Holloway

This story about the Dutchman Joran van der Slootwas all over the paper he would have seen in when he was in Los Angeles...

Quote
At Line 292 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled the words
‘manslaughter sentencing’
Then he went to Wikipedia website to search the words
‘manslaughter in English law murder in English law’
Tabak left work at 5.06pm \on 22 Dec 2010
and at home he Googled
‘Los Angeles murder case’

Why is wiki supposed to be the font of all knowledge??? can't see that ...

For a Clever man with a PHD you think he would actually look for Law papers on the internet that would give him that proper information!!!!! (download a pdf)....

Yes I do believe that Dr Vincent tabak didn't change any of his search times... And as I've said before he could have taken his Laptops and Hard drives over to Holland on the 31st December.. And DUMPED them!!!!!!

Dr Vincent Tabak was in Los Angeles for a month returning home on the 11th Dec 2010...  So the searches could definetaley be attributed to : Joran van der Sloot!!!!

JiXy has nothing I've found out changed you opinion in anyway???????

Explain the: HEALEY"S CIDER AND THE TATTINGER REIMS CHAMPAGNE CORK!!!!!!!

The Trouble with INTERNET SEARCHES is that you CANNOT prove what someones .... INTENTION WAS!!!!!

The Real Problem With Anyone using Wiki as a Form of Knowledge is that too many INDIVIDUALS Contribute to it... So it is not always ACCURATE...

Which I'm sure Dr Vincent Tabak would have been aware of........

WIKI just Ain't gonna Cut It!!!!!!!

EDIT:...... Another question..... why are all his searches in ENGLISH?????   He's DUTCH!!!!

Here's WIKI's page on Joran vander Sloot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joran_van_der_Sloot

There are plenty of words he could click on regards :

(1): Murder

(2) Manslaughter

(3) Extradition

How did he search wiki for a film of a BODY DECOMPOSING??????

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=film+of+body+decomposing&title=Special:Search&go=Go&searchToken=6bcdwbkhuu1mk1xxap9hhv69t

Quote
At Lines 311 (a to g) of the prosecution chart (on 23 December 2010)
Tabak searched Wikipedia for the terms
‘decomposition’
‘ how fast does body decompose’
‘ film of body decomposing’
‘what takes place from hour to hour after death’
‘what happens to human body after death’

WIKI SEARCHES:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=what+takes+place+from+hour+to+hour+after+death%E2%80%99&searchToken=1qepvyjij0lax5jfto23mls8y

DOESN"T EXSIST!!!!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=what+happens+to+human+body+after+death&searchToken=8yk85ldkhsmfqpv6ycns8gspx

AGAIN...... DOESN'T EXSIST

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=Search&search=how+fast+does+body+decompose&searchToken=8r48f1wo0l73zvksthomu1x3r

Which one did he CHOOSE?????

Decomposition is a Maths TERM..... Seeing he might use Maths for his work!!!!!


Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 16, 2016, 09:04:50 PM
I keep saying these searches are NONSENSE...........

Quote
On 5 Jan 2011 lunchtime, Tabak Googled
‘press coverage’
At 3.05 pm, Tabak Googled the words
‘press coverage’
‘missing sock’

Range of dates: 1/1/2011 to 5/1/2011

Press Coverage you get this: 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=press+coverage%E2%80%99&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A05%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

So the PRESS COVERAGE search was A waste of TIME!!!!!

What is searching the words "PRESS COVERAGE" going to tell him??? Unless he has a specific search that goes with it!!!

AND.....  The Prosection show Press Coverage AND Missing Sock as Two SEPERATE SEARCHES!!!!!

Missing Sock you get this:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=press+coverage%E2%80%99&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A01%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max%3A05%2F01%2F2011&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:01%2F01%2F2011%2Ccd_max:05%2F01%2F2011&q=missing+sock

But most of the stories are well after 3:05pm  and the other just have a Date.... So what does IT PROVE???

Quote
At 4.03, Tabak searched online newspaper articles for the words
‘frozen DNA’
‘rubbish collection Clifton 23 December 2010’

I've already covered the FROZEN DNA.....

He'd get this:....... Range of dates from 20/12/2010 to 5/1/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%E2%80%98rubbish+collection+Clifton+23+December+2010&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

So Nothing there then!!!!!

Quote
On 6 Jan 2011, Tabak researched the words
Pizza box
Tabak Googled the words
‘Rubbish collection York Place Clifton Bristol’
‘Jo Yeates rubbish’

Here we GO.............  Pizza box  Range of Dates:   20/12/2010 to 6/1/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pizza+box&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F01%2F2011&tbm=

So Pizza Box Search was a waste of time...


Rubbish collection York Place Clifton Bristol’ Range of Dates 20/12/2010 to 6/1/2011

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%E2%80%98rubbish+collection+Clifton+23+December+2010&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F01%2F2011&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max:06%2F01%2F2011&q=Rubbish+collection+York+Place+Clifton+Bristol%E2%80%99


Again A Point less Search!!!!!!!!

Next one:......

Jo Yeates Rubbish


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%E2%80%98rubbish+collection+Clifton+23+December+2010&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1006&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max%3A06%2F01%2F2011&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:20%2F12%2F2010%2Ccd_max:06%2F01%2F2011&q=Jo+Yeates+Rubbish

Tells you what???? Seems an odd way to search... He's not going to get anything in particular!!!

These Searches are ABSOULTE TOSH........ They are supposed to be showing Dr Vincent Tabak's INTENT....

What they are showing.. IS THEY ARE POINTLESS!!!!!!!!!

Again:
Quote
And at 5.00 pm, Tabak researched on
Google map
‘Clifton Richmond Terrace’

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=clifton%20richmond%20terrace

AND..... That search tells him EXACTLY WHAT!!!!!!!!!

Again POINTLESS........

I find this all very telling.............. These searches do not appear credible...(IMO) they make no sense what so ever........

I know if i did every search that Dr Vincent Tabak was supposed to have done I'd find the same:

In a much early post i covered:

Quote
On 23 Dec 2010 at 4.00 pm
Tabak searched the Dutch Wikipedia for the words
‘extradition’
‘Yeates’
‘missing persons’
‘% of grey cars in UK’
‘Renault Megan cars in UK’

And Dutch wiki doesn't even have an Answer for it...... BECAUSE THEY ARE DUTCH!!!!

They don't need to no % grey cars in the UK
Renault Megan cars in the UK

They have No use for that information!!!!

And for Missing Persons you would get this:......

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%E2%80%98missing+persons%E2%80%99&title=Speciaal:Zoeken&go=article&searchToken=60814if5eyot5unfthzr9bdup

Anyone Can work out that these searches are completely IRRELEVANT And NONSENSICLE

What else can I say.......

AGAIN I"LL SAY........ Which Catergory will the Jury put them under????

GOOGLE
FORENSICS
LOCATION

Quote
Tabak also searched the BBC news article for
‘missing sock when found’
‘Avon & Somerset police’
Then Tabak researched for a Dutch article of ‘18 year sentence for murder’

Was Dr Vincent Tabak On a DUTCH WEBSITE?????  Because he's reasearch for a DUTCH Article 18 years for Murder???

So is this even more telling???????


DOES HE LOOK FOR HIS SEARCHES IN THE DUTCH LANGUAGE????  Because that last search suggests that!!!!

So who Translated Dr Vincent Tabak's Computer info... if he searches in DUTCH!!!!

WHY.......Would he even bother to combine searching in ENGLISH THEN DUTCH!!!!!
Again total TOSH!!!!!


I've just text my Dutch Brother inlaw... Asked him about how Dutch People would do internet searches!!!

His Reply:

Quote
We Dutchies Google in Dutch!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 16, 2016, 10:29:36 PM
Just a small one:

Quote
At Line 451 of the prosecution chart
Tabak did further research on 11 Jan 2011
Tabak continued his research


And That explains EXACTLY WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!

Be Specific...... 

What the Hell was he supposed to be searching for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Research on:

(1):  How many people you can fit in a lift

(2): What is the most popular day people are born

(3): How shit is WIKI

(4): Can Elephants really hide in custard

(5): How cold was it in Dec 2009

(6): Whats the latest Gadget on the Market

(7): Should I ask Wiki for advise

(8): How long does it take a caterpillar to turn into a butterfly

(9): How tall is the average Dutchman

(10): What does my Birth Sign mean

(11): Do sheep sleep standing up

(12): What does the ther side of the moon look like

(13): How long should you boil an egg for

(14): Which is the best side to sleep on

(15): What is pencil lead made from

(16): How many trees in a forest

(17): How many tulips do the Dutch grow

(18): How hard is it to Juggle

(19): Does the Queen fart

(20): Is Elvis still alive     

Again... Explain... You are allowing the Jury to think he spent all his time researching anything that has to be Related to Joanna Yeates and the case.... When he could be looking at anything!!!! So if his SEARCHES were Related....... PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!

But... The problem is  A Half Asleep Jury might just think...

He's been RESEARCHING ALL THIS TIME....WHICH Again the PROSECUTION have NOT PROVEN!!!!!!

So ...... What Catergory will they choose????????



11th January... what is he searching for when the PIZZA LABEL debarcle was the 10th January 2011

Wiki won't tell you about a PIZZA DELIVERY!!!!!

What the Hell is he continued his RESEARCH supposed to mean??????

Do you really want me to start again........

(1): How to fly a kite

(2): How do babies recognise their mothers

(3): What's the highest IQ

You get the Picture....... And AGAIN..... Why didn't the Defence challenge THIS????????

But... The Jury have in their Minds "RESEARCH" = Joanna Yeates Case....... And Covering His Tracks....

But does it REALLY!!!!!! ............. PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates
Post by: [...] on December 16, 2016, 11:25:41 PM
Here Another Conundrum:

Quote
Police hope frozen DNA sample on body will solve Joanna's murder as they warn women 'not to go out alone after dark'

How can they identify a DNA Sample if it is FROZEN........????????

They may have gotten samples... But how do they know that the sample contains DNA?????

Did it stand up on its own ???? Here I Am?????????

They May have taken swabs.... But........... A FROZEN DNA Sample???

If the Sample is on the surface of the skin... It would Defrost pretty quickly...

 Andrew Mott... Trying to stop the body from THAWING... So Any flesh That was EXPOSED would have THAWED FIRST!!!!!

So.............

Question:  How do you get a FROZEN DNA SAMPLE?????????

The only way to get  FROZEN DNA sample is to FREEZE some DNA ....

And not the other way round!!!


EDIT:.......................

I've been trying to establish..WHEN the sample of DNA was ANAYLISED On Joanna Yeates BODY:....

And I do believe I have found the ANSWER!!!!!  19:19, 3 January 2011


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343462/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Police-hope-frozen-DNA-sample-body-solve-murder.html

                                                 "Could DNA Traces Unlock Mystery"

Quote
A Sample of DNA found on Joanna Yeates body could be a crucial discovery in the hunt for her killer.....
It is understood that Police Forensic Specialist are working round the clock to find out to whom it belongs.

The sample was taken from Miss Yeates body soon After it was dumped at the side of a road on Christmas Morning.
Althought the freezing temperatures meant post-mortem examination results were serverally delayed, crime experts say as the cold weather provided excellent conditions for preserving the DNA evidence.
The sample is being tested for a match against DNA previously stored by police... as well as against samples that have been taken during the investigation..It is understood several potential DNA matches were tested within hours of the find.

The revelation came the day after the only man arrested over the killing so far was released,Chris Jefferies 65 spent three daysin police custody before being freed pending further inquires,and has had his flat two floors abovethe one rented to Miss Yeatesand her boyfriend turned upside down by forensic teams.
The forensic examination at Mr Jefferies flat continued Yesterday, with two crime scene investigators.. entering carrying brown evidence bags.

Scientists have also examined at least three vehicle kept near the building in which Miss Yeates lived.
This followed an immediate and intensive inch by inch search of the area surrounding the spot where her body was discovered on a roadside in Failand outside Bristol.

Again I'm going to break it down and cross reference:.......

Quote
The sample was taken from Miss Yeates body soon After it was dumped at the side of a road on Christmas Morning.
Althought the freezing temperatures meant post-mortem examination results were serverally delayed, crime experts say as the cold weather provided excellent conditions for preserving the DNA evidence.

So... the sample is taken on the 25th Dec 2010...... NOT DNA RESULTS!!!!!!


Remember samples that have been taken already.......

Lyndsey Lennen said:

Quote
"The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

That makes the time they had the DNA turned round 27th Dec 2011.........


Quote
The revelation came the day after the only man arrested over the killing so far was released,Chris Jefferies 65 spent three days in police custody before being freed pending further inquires

So when they arrested CJ they would have had his sample done immediatley... So it was not the DNA that they were keeping CJ under Arrest for...!!!! Also CJ says:

Quote
All the people who lived in 44, Canygne Road... were interviewed, statements were taken... So... my statement was taken along with everyone else...
DNA samples were taken, finger prints, were taken.... It was all entirely Voluntary..But obviously nobody had anything to hide....
So nobody was in the least bit concerned.. erm.... about co-operating in that way...

So if CJ had given a sample very EARLY ON.... Why did they keep him on POLICE BAIL till MARCH!!!
They new very early on in the investigation it could not have been CJ's DNA.....

So the DNA sample you see CJ giving on the Honour of CJ.. Is his second!! They didn't really need it!!!!!!

Because...................

Quote
It is understood several potential DNA matches were tested within hours of the find.

So they had  TESTED.... THE FROZEN DNA OF JOANNA YEATES BY THIS POINT...... NO GETTING THAT WRONG..

The Article actually refers to the frozen state the samples they were collecting at the time when they took the samples from Joanna Yeates..... 25th Dec 2010

So they DEFINETLY knew it was not CJ's DNA!!!!!!!

But they thought he had an accomplice:

Quote
Under Suspicion.. Now I gather that one of the reasons for the delay was that Vincent Tabak when he was arreated.... refused to say anything...And therefore the police continued to entertain the suspicion that possibly there had been some sort of collusion... Between myself and Vincent Tabak

So Cj's still in the picture............

So..... who SHOULD this RULE OUT!!!!!!!

(1): CJ
(2): Possibly Friends of Jo's
(3): Dr Vincent Tabak.......... If he gave the sample like CJ said......

But we will go with the Offical line:

Quote
Then his reluctance to give his DNA at the end of the process.....

He did give a sample.... The DATE: 31st Dec 2010 because what test would the yhave used otherwise???

Quote
The sample is being tested for a match against DNA previously stored by police... as well as against samples that have been taken during the investigation

Lets Remind ourselves AGAIN...................

Quote
It is understood several potential DNA matches were tested within hours of the find.

So.... they are saying that they as soon as they got a SAMPLE OF DNA From someone ....
They tested it within hours.................

Quote
The sample is being tested for a match against DNA previously stored by police..

So... that is definately SAMPLES OF DNA Taken before they found Jo...!!!!

Again Dr Vincent Tabak gave a sample of DNA... to The Police woman in Holland on the 31st Dec 2010

Which Again going from what they said ... The sample they already had were tested within hours!!!!!

So Dr Vincent Tabaks Test would be done within hours!!!!! Say they didnt get back till the 1st of January 2010

They would have done it within hours:


But...... There's always a but......... This Article that the quote comes from is DATED:3rd January 2010 !!!!!

They obviously have tested Dr Vincent Tabak's  DNA by NOW!!!! Why isn't it in the Paper?????????

CJ AND Dr Vincent Tabak should have been ruled out by now!!!!!!

We go from this:

Quote
The sample is being tested for a match against DNA previously stored by police... as well as against samples that have been taken during the investigation..It is understood several potential DNA matches were tested within hours of the find.

With this to accompany it: From Lynsdey Lennen:
Quote
"The body was frozen, so that was quite tricky." Under the media glare, the work was flat-out: clothing, swabs, suspect's clothing, all analysed and turned round in 48 hours.

Those two STATEMENTS MATCH UP!!!!



So... why do we then get this:

Quote
Then shortly before the reconstruction was due to air... They made a dramatic break through.... Forensic Scientists had spent weeks enhancing the tiny DNA sample found on Jo's body. enabling them to establish a link to Vincent Tabak

AND THIS:..............................


We also have The Policemans statement of:

Quote
It was around the 20th January that erm.... we positively identified, that there were components, in mixed DNA of Vincent Tabak


What the **** is that!!!!!!!!!

Those last two statement are an UNTRUE ...(IMO)............

YOU TESTED Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA ALREADY.........

THE TINY SAMPLE OF DNA ON JOANNA YEATES DID NOT TAKE WEEKS!!!!!

They Obviously KNEW that Dr Vincent Tabak's DNA did NOT MATCH......!!!!

Why on GODS EARTH IS THAT MAN IN PRISON......

How many TIMES do I have to say:

 Dr Vincent Tabak is INNOCENT....... They have IMPRISONED A COMPLETELEY INNOCENT MAN!!!!!

Quote
A Sample of DNA found on Joanna Yeates body could be a crucial discovery in the hunt for her killer.....
It is understood that Police Forensic Specialist are working round the clock to find out to whom it belongs.

The sample was taken from Miss Yeates body soon After it was dumped at the side of a road on Christmas Morning.

No mistaking Joanna Yeates..... DNA SAMPLE IS DONE IMMEDIATLEY AND NOT WEEKS LATER!!!!!!

Dr Vincent Tabaks Sample was taken at the latest 31st Dec 2010.......

WHY DID IT TAKE 20 days to arrest Dr Vincent Tabak......

Lets NOT FORGET..... They had CJ.. In pretty sharpish.......

Dr Vincent Tabak is No more the Contributor to that DNA sample than I AM!!!!!!

Something SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR Dr Vincent Tabak!!!!!! NOW!!!!!

So what is Lyndsey Lennen saying:

Quote
"Eventually, we found something," Lennen says. "On swabs and tapes from her breasts, and tapes from three areas of her jeans. There were DNA components that matched one of the suspects, Vincent Tabak." But there wasn't enough, of enough quality, to evaluate – perhaps because of the high salt levels where the body was found, following heavy snowfall.

So the team deployed an LGC technique known as DNA SenCE, which purifies, concentrates and enhances otherwise unusable DNA: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."

DNA SenCE is the process they use to ENHANCE the Sample that they found on Joanna yeates....

So if Dr Vincent Tabak was a MATCH!!!! It would have come back STRAIGHT AWAY NOT 20 DAYS LATER!!!!!!


Oh.... And do not Forget: THE HEALEYS CIDER AND TATTINGER REIMS CHAMPAGNE CORK on the table in the crime scene:....

Who did they ask about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Double EDIT:

Quote
Ms Lennen said the statistical interpretation of the results from Miss Yeates's jeans showed that it was 1,100 times more likely that the DNA was from Vincent Tabak and another person, rather than two unknown people unrelated to the defendant.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-killer-confessed-to-chaplain-2372235.html


But MS LYNDSEY LENNEN..... I thought you said this:

Quote
So the team deployed an LGC technique known as DNA SenCE, which purifies, concentrates and enhances otherwise unusable DNA: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion."