UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at US politics following Donald Trump's inauguration as President. => Topic started by: John on January 28, 2017, 09:01:12 PM

Title: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 28, 2017, 09:01:12 PM
Trump's immigration ban sends shockwaves

By Jeremy Diamond, CNN
28 January 2017

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's seismic move to ban more than 130 million people from the United States and to deny entry to all refugees reverberated worldwide Saturday, as chaos and confusion rippled through US law enforcement agencies, airports and foreign capitals trying to grasp the US's new policy.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/743773f1703d70fe27e591b37e30e5202e49d0c4/0_4_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=9a721956899e61a89dbcaf6d5e973c6c)

At John F. Kennedy International Airport, where passengers can often spot the Statue of Liberty on their descent into New York, two Iraqis who had been granted visas to enter the US were detained and prevented from exiting the airport. Customs and Border Protection officials cited Trump's new executive order, which bans citizens of Iraq and six other Muslim-majority countries -- a total of at least 134 million people -- from entering the US for the next 90 days. It also suspends the admission of all refugees for 120 days.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-executive-order-immigration-reaction/

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Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 28, 2017, 09:46:14 PM
Trump's immigration ban sends shockwaves

By Jeremy Diamond, CNN
28 January 2017

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's seismic move to ban more than 130 million people from the United States and to deny entry to all refugees reverberated worldwide Saturday, as chaos and confusion rippled through US law enforcement agencies, airports and foreign capitals trying to grasp the US's new policy.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/743773f1703d70fe27e591b37e30e5202e49d0c4/0_4_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=9a721956899e61a89dbcaf6d5e973c6c)

At John F. Kennedy International Airport, where passengers can often spot the Statue of Liberty on their descent into New York, two Iraqis who had been granted visas to enter the US were detained and prevented from exiting the airport. Customs and Border Protection officials cited Trump's new executive order, which bans citizens of Iraq and six other Muslim-majority countries -- a total of at least 134 million people -- from entering the US for the next 90 days. It also suspends the admission of all refugees for 120 days.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-executive-order-immigration-reaction/

One of the problems is "the stuff" is being pushed out by such unbiased media outlets as CNN, FOX, Washington Post, The Grauniad, BBC and New York Times. It means wading through reams of text to find the full story when the "intelligentsia" are arguing on the basis of the headline and photo............................jeez but am I glad I am not clever?  @)(++(*

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 28, 2017, 10:19:22 PM
It may happen as Trump, by his own actions is shown to be totally off his rocker, will make some of his supporters wake up to reality.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 28, 2017, 10:42:35 PM
It may happen as Trump, by his own actions is shown to be totally off his rocker, will make some of his supporters wake up to reality.

So building an enhanced barrier to keep Mexican illegals out of the USA and prevent criminals slipping across the border is a bad thing?  Similarly, is stopping unchecked immigration from seven countries known to be the spawning grounds of Muslim terrorists such a bad thing?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 28, 2017, 10:55:20 PM
So building an enhanced barrier to keep Mexican illegals out of the USA and prevent criminals slipping across the border is a bad thing?  Similarly, is stopping unchecked immigration from seven countries known to be the spawning grounds of Muslim terrorists such a bad thing?

Listen to Nick Abott on LBC right now, ripping your hero to pieces.

Trump is insane.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 28, 2017, 10:55:52 PM
 The man is a disgrace and if he thinks that fanning the flames of racial hatred is going to prevent terrorism on US soil or against US nationals then he's very, very stupid as well.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 28, 2017, 10:57:52 PM
Listen to Nick Abott on LBC right now, ripping your hero to pieces.

Trump is insane.

Answer the questions please?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 28, 2017, 11:03:17 PM
Answer the questions please?
If you are Iranian with a Green Card and decide to leave the US for a holiday you will be barred entry on your return.  Is that reasonable in your view?  If you have dual British / Somali nationality (Mo Farah perhaps) you will be barred from entering the US - a good move in your view?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 28, 2017, 11:05:31 PM
David Bowie's wife Iman, Somali born - she leaves the US for a few days and will be barred from returning to her home anc child.  All good, in your view John?  Does that make America safer?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 28, 2017, 11:07:23 PM
Comparisons with the early days of Nazi Germany are not looking quite so far-fetched now are they?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 28, 2017, 11:09:38 PM
So building an enhanced barrier to keep Mexican illegals out of the USA and prevent criminals slipping across the border is a bad thing?  Similarly, is stopping unchecked immigration from seven countries known to be the spawning grounds of Muslim terrorists such a bad thing?

The Americans depend on Mexico for cheap labour.

The drugs and people trafficking will continue.

The ban on immigrants has spawned chaos today.

Is that what you want John ?

I cannot for the life of me, understand why you can't see through Trump.

Putin must be rolling in the aisles.

Now back to LBC.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 28, 2017, 11:14:40 PM
The Americans depend on Mexico for cheap labour.  So what?  Workers will still be able to get into the US.

The drugs and people trafficking will continue. To a much lesser degree.

The ban on immigrants has spawned chaos today. Good.  It was a long time coming.


This is an ever changing world and Donald is right, we must fight fire with fire.  I hope Theresa got a few pointers from Donald as to how to deal with the illegals living in London and elsewhere in the UK.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 28, 2017, 11:18:30 PM
David Bowie's wife Iman, Somali born - she leaves the US for a few days and will be barred from returning to her home anc child.  All good, in your view John?  Does that make America safer?

Poor her.  The greater needs of the American people come first and foremost.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 28, 2017, 11:23:17 PM
This is an ever changing world and Donald is right, we must fight fire with fire.  I hope Theresa got a few pointers from Donald as to how to deal with the illegals living in London and elsewhere in the UK.

He really is behaving like an infant with tantrums.

He brings nothing but chaos.

Apparently, the Whitehouse is leaking like a sieve with stories of his 'behaviour'.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 28, 2017, 11:25:01 PM
Poor her.  The greater needs of the American people come first and foremost.
Scary.  Eroding the rights of some American citizens because they were born in the "wrong" place or follow the "wrong" religion, and all for what? 
I see the ban extends to Conservtive MP Nadhim Zahawi (someone I had business dealings with years ago), yes all very rational I'm sure.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 28, 2017, 11:25:43 PM
There's a joke going around.

Putin to Trump...

'Sorry for the pain urine'.😹😹😹
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 12:09:39 AM
Scary.  Eroding the rights of some American citizens because they were born in the "wrong" place or follow the "wrong" religion, and all for what? 
I see the ban extends to Conservtive MP Nadhim Zahawi (someone I had business dealings with years ago), yes all very rational I'm sure.

Actions have consequences.  Unfortunately it is the innocent who tend to bear those consequences.  Anything Trump can do to lessen the threat from terrorism and make life more difficult for criminals is to be applauded imo.   
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 12:19:10 AM
Actions have consequences.  Unfortunately it is the innocent who tend to bear those consequences.  Anything Trump does to lessen the threat from terrorism is to be applauded imo.
Do you think Americans living and working abroad in embassies for example are safer from the threat of terrorism today than they were a week ago?  Seriously, how does this lessen the threat from terrorism?  And why is threat of terrorism the number one priority when the number of deaths from gun crime and mass shootings far outstrips deaths from Islamic terrorist incidents on a year by year basis? 316,000 deaths by shootings since 2004 in the USA compared to 313 American deaths from terrorism worldwide.

http://kfor.com/2015/10/02/american-deaths-in-terrorism-vs-gun-violence-in-one-graph/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: puglove on January 29, 2017, 12:32:43 AM
Actions have consequences.  Unfortunately it is the innocent who tend to bear those consequences.  Anything Trump can do to lessen the threat from terrorism and make life more difficult for criminals is to be applauded imo.

Bloody hell, John, are you for real?

If I was you, I'd batten down the hatches, bend over and kiss my arse goodbye.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: misty on January 29, 2017, 12:53:48 AM
Actions have consequences.  Unfortunately it is the innocent who tend to bear those consequences.  Anything Trump can do to lessen the threat from terrorism and make life more difficult for criminals is to be applauded imo.

Restricting the freedom of movement by innocent citizens because of fear is a form of terrorism in itself.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: puglove on January 29, 2017, 01:04:58 AM
Restricting the freedom of movement by innocent citizens because of fear is a form of terrorism in itself.

Quite so.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 08:30:53 AM
• President Trump said the government was "totally prepared" for the ban. "It's working out very nicely," Trump told reporters Saturday. "You see it at the airports. You see it all over. It's working out very nicely and we're going to have a very, very strict ban." However. there was widespread confusion across the country as authorities at airports struggled to adjust to the new directives.
Syrian Christian family turned back at airport

...

But Saturday night, a federal judge granted an emergency stay for people who have already arrived in the United States and those who are in transit, and who hold valid visas, ruling they cannot be deported. However, it doesn't immediately order that they be released from detention, Zachary Manfredi, a lawyer involved in drafting the motion, told CNN.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-executive-order-immigration-reaction/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 08:51:13 AM
The full text:

7-nation ban, refugee suspension

Updated 1408 GMT (2208 HKT) January 28, 2017

(CNN)President Donald Trump on Friday banned nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States for at least the next 90 days by executive order.
The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."
The executive order also bans entry of those fleeing from war-torn Syria indefinitely.

Trump also has stopped the admission of all refugees to the United States for four months.
The order also calls for a review into suspending the Visa Interview Waiver Program, which allows travelers from 38 countries -- including close allies -- to renew travel authorizations without an in-person interview.
Here is the order in its entirety:
PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Purpose. The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.
Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.
Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to protect its citizens from foreign nationals who intend to commit terrorist attacks in the United States; and to prevent the admission of foreign nationals who intend to exploit United States immigration laws for malevolent purposes.
Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall submit to the President a report on the results of the review described in subsection (a) of this section, including the Secretary of Homeland Security's determination of the information needed for adjudications and a list of countries that do not provide adequate information, within 30 days of the date of this order. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a copy of the report to the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence.

(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
(d) Immediately upon receipt of the report described in subsection (b) of this section regarding the information needed for adjudications, the Secretary of State shall request all foreign governments that do not supply such information to start providing such information regarding their nationals within 60 days of notification.
(e) After the 60-day period described in subsection (d) of this section expires, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall submit to the President a list of countries recommended for inclusion on a Presidential proclamation that would prohibit the entry of foreign nationals (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas) from countries that do not provide the information requested pursuant to subsection (d) of this section until compliance occurs.
(f) At any point after submitting the list described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Homeland Security may submit to the President the names of any additional countries recommended for similar treatment.
(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.
(h) The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall submit to the President a joint report on the progress in implementing this order within 30 days of the date of this order, a second report within 60 days of the date of this order, a third report within 90 days of the date of this order, and a fourth report within 120 days of the date of this order.
Sec. 4. Implementing Uniform Screening Standards for All Immigration Programs. (a) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall implement a program, as part of the adjudication process for immigration benefits, to identify individuals seeking to enter the United States on a fraudulent basis with the intent to cause harm, or who are at risk of causing harm subsequent to their admission. This program will include the development of a uniform screening standard and procedure, such as in-person interviews; a database of identity documents proffered by applicants to ensure that duplicate documents are not used by multiple applicants; amended application forms that include questions aimed at identifying fraudulent answers and malicious intent; a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is who the applicant claims to be; a process to evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society and the applicant's ability to make contributions to the national interest; and a mechanism to assess whether or not the applicant has the intent to commit criminal or terrorist acts after entering the United States.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in conjunction with the Secretary of State, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of this directive within 60 days of the date of this order, a second report within 100 days of the date of this order, and a third report within 200 days of the date of this order.
Sec. 5. Realignment of the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program for Fiscal Year 2017. (a) The Secretary of State shall suspend the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP) for 120 days. During the 120-day period, the Secretary of State, in conjunction with the Secretary of Homeland Security and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, shall review the USRAP application and adjudication process to determine what additional procedures should be taken to ensure that those approved for refugee admission do not pose a threat to the security and welfare of the United States, and shall implement such additional procedures. Refugee applicants who are already in the USRAP process may be admitted upon the initiation and completion of these revised procedures. Upon the date that is 120 days after the date of this order, the Secretary of State shall resume USRAP admissions only for nationals of countries for which the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence have jointly determined that such additional procedures are adequate to ensure the security and welfare of the United States.
(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.
(c) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest.
(d) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of more than 50,000 refugees in fiscal year 2017 would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I determine that additional admissions would be in the national interest.
(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship -- and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.
(f) The Secretary of State shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of the directive in subsection (b) of this section regarding prioritization of claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution within 100 days of the date of this order and shall submit a second report within 200 days of the date of this order.
(g) It is the policy of the executive branch that, to the extent permitted by law and as practicable, State and local jurisdictions be granted a role in the process of determining the placement or settlement in their jurisdictions of aliens eligible to be admitted to the United States as refugees. To that end, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall examine existing law to determine the extent to which, consistent with applicable law, State and local jurisdictions may have greater involvement in the process of determining the placement or resettlement of refugees in their jurisdictions, and shall devise a proposal to lawfully promote such involvement.
Sec. 6. Rescission of Exercise of Authority Relating to the Terrorism Grounds of Inadmissibility. The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall, in consultation with the Attorney General, consider rescinding the exercises of authority in section 212 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182, relating to the terrorism grounds of inadmissibility, as well as any related implementing memoranda.
Sec. 7. Expedited Completion of the Biometric Entry-Exit Tracking System. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall expedite the completion and implementation of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all travelers to the United States, as recommended by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit to the President periodic reports on the progress of the directive contained in subsection (a) of this section. The initial report shall be submitted within 100 days of the date of this order, a second report shall be submitted within 200 days of the date of this order, and a third report shall be submitted within 365 days of the date of this order. Further, the Secretary shall submit a report every 180 days thereafter until the system is fully deployed and operational.
Sec. 8. Visa Interview Security. (a) The Secretary of State shall immediately suspend the Visa Interview Waiver Program and ensure compliance with section 222 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1222, which requires that all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa undergo an in-person interview, subject to specific statutory exceptions.
(b) To the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, the Secretary of State shall immediately expand the Consular Fellows Program, including by substantially increasing the number of Fellows, lengthening or making permanent the period of service, and making language training at the Foreign Service Institute available to Fellows for assignment to posts outside of their area of core linguistic ability, to ensure that non-immigrant visa-interview wait times are not unduly affected.
Sec. 9. Visa Validity Reciprocity. The Secretary of State shall review all nonimmigrant visa reciprocity agreements to ensure that they are, with respect to each visa classification, truly reciprocal insofar as practicable with respect to validity period and fees, as required by sections 221(c) and 281 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1201(c) and 1351, and other treatment. If a country does not treat United States nationals seeking nonimmigrant visas in a reciprocal manner, the Secretary of State shall adjust the visa validity period, fee schedule, or other treatment to match the treatment of United States nationals by the foreign country, to the extent practicable.
Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:
(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;
(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.
(b) The Secretary of State shall, within one year of the date of this order, provide a report on the estimated long-term costs of the USRAP at the Federal, State, and local levels.
Sec. 11. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
DONALD J. TRUMP
THE WHITE HOUSE, January 27, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/index.html
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 09:26:18 AM
The full text:

7-nation ban, refugee suspension

Updated 1408 GMT (2208 HKT) January 28, 2017

(CNN)President Donald Trump on Friday banned nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States for at least the next 90 days by executive order.
The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."
The executive order also bans entry of those fleeing from war-torn Syria indefinitely.

Trump also has stopped the admission of all refugees to the United States for four months.
The order also calls for a review into suspending the Visa Interview Waiver Program, which allows travelers from 38 countries -- including close allies -- to renew travel authorizations without an in-person interview.
Here is the order in its entirety:
PROTECTING THE NATION FROM FOREIGN TERRORIST ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Purpose. The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.
Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.
Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to protect its citizens from foreign nationals who intend to commit terrorist attacks in the United States; and to prevent the admission of foreign nationals who intend to exploit United States immigration laws for malevolent purposes.
Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall submit to the President a report on the results of the review described in subsection (a) of this section, including the Secretary of Homeland Security's determination of the information needed for adjudications and a list of countries that do not provide adequate information, within 30 days of the date of this order. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a copy of the report to the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence.

(c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).
(d) Immediately upon receipt of the report described in subsection (b) of this section regarding the information needed for adjudications, the Secretary of State shall request all foreign governments that do not supply such information to start providing such information regarding their nationals within 60 days of notification.
(e) After the 60-day period described in subsection (d) of this section expires, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall submit to the President a list of countries recommended for inclusion on a Presidential proclamation that would prohibit the entry of foreign nationals (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas) from countries that do not provide the information requested pursuant to subsection (d) of this section until compliance occurs.
(f) At any point after submitting the list described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Homeland Security may submit to the President the names of any additional countries recommended for similar treatment.
(g) Notwithstanding a suspension pursuant to subsection (c) of this section or pursuant to a Presidential proclamation described in subsection (e) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may, on a case-by-case basis, and when in the national interest, issue visas or other immigration benefits to nationals of countries for which visas and benefits are otherwise blocked.
(h) The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall submit to the President a joint report on the progress in implementing this order within 30 days of the date of this order, a second report within 60 days of the date of this order, a third report within 90 days of the date of this order, and a fourth report within 120 days of the date of this order.
Sec. 4. Implementing Uniform Screening Standards for All Immigration Programs. (a) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall implement a program, as part of the adjudication process for immigration benefits, to identify individuals seeking to enter the United States on a fraudulent basis with the intent to cause harm, or who are at risk of causing harm subsequent to their admission. This program will include the development of a uniform screening standard and procedure, such as in-person interviews; a database of identity documents proffered by applicants to ensure that duplicate documents are not used by multiple applicants; amended application forms that include questions aimed at identifying fraudulent answers and malicious intent; a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is who the applicant claims to be; a process to evaluate the applicant's likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society and the applicant's ability to make contributions to the national interest; and a mechanism to assess whether or not the applicant has the intent to commit criminal or terrorist acts after entering the United States.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in conjunction with the Secretary of State, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of this directive within 60 days of the date of this order, a second report within 100 days of the date of this order, and a third report within 200 days of the date of this order.
Sec. 5. Realignment of the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program for Fiscal Year 2017. (a) The Secretary of State shall suspend the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP) for 120 days. During the 120-day period, the Secretary of State, in conjunction with the Secretary of Homeland Security and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, shall review the USRAP application and adjudication process to determine what additional procedures should be taken to ensure that those approved for refugee admission do not pose a threat to the security and welfare of the United States, and shall implement such additional procedures. Refugee applicants who are already in the USRAP process may be admitted upon the initiation and completion of these revised procedures. Upon the date that is 120 days after the date of this order, the Secretary of State shall resume USRAP admissions only for nationals of countries for which the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence have jointly determined that such additional procedures are adequate to ensure the security and welfare of the United States.
(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.
(c) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest.
(d) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of more than 50,000 refugees in fiscal year 2017 would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I determine that additional admissions would be in the national interest.
(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship -- and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.
(f) The Secretary of State shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of the directive in subsection (b) of this section regarding prioritization of claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution within 100 days of the date of this order and shall submit a second report within 200 days of the date of this order.
(g) It is the policy of the executive branch that, to the extent permitted by law and as practicable, State and local jurisdictions be granted a role in the process of determining the placement or settlement in their jurisdictions of aliens eligible to be admitted to the United States as refugees. To that end, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall examine existing law to determine the extent to which, consistent with applicable law, State and local jurisdictions may have greater involvement in the process of determining the placement or resettlement of refugees in their jurisdictions, and shall devise a proposal to lawfully promote such involvement.
Sec. 6. Rescission of Exercise of Authority Relating to the Terrorism Grounds of Inadmissibility. The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall, in consultation with the Attorney General, consider rescinding the exercises of authority in section 212 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182, relating to the terrorism grounds of inadmissibility, as well as any related implementing memoranda.
Sec. 7. Expedited Completion of the Biometric Entry-Exit Tracking System. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall expedite the completion and implementation of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all travelers to the United States, as recommended by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.
(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit to the President periodic reports on the progress of the directive contained in subsection (a) of this section. The initial report shall be submitted within 100 days of the date of this order, a second report shall be submitted within 200 days of the date of this order, and a third report shall be submitted within 365 days of the date of this order. Further, the Secretary shall submit a report every 180 days thereafter until the system is fully deployed and operational.
Sec. 8. Visa Interview Security. (a) The Secretary of State shall immediately suspend the Visa Interview Waiver Program and ensure compliance with section 222 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1222, which requires that all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa undergo an in-person interview, subject to specific statutory exceptions.
(b) To the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, the Secretary of State shall immediately expand the Consular Fellows Program, including by substantially increasing the number of Fellows, lengthening or making permanent the period of service, and making language training at the Foreign Service Institute available to Fellows for assignment to posts outside of their area of core linguistic ability, to ensure that non-immigrant visa-interview wait times are not unduly affected.
Sec. 9. Visa Validity Reciprocity. The Secretary of State shall review all nonimmigrant visa reciprocity agreements to ensure that they are, with respect to each visa classification, truly reciprocal insofar as practicable with respect to validity period and fees, as required by sections 221(c) and 281 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1201(c) and 1351, and other treatment. If a country does not treat United States nationals seeking nonimmigrant visas in a reciprocal manner, the Secretary of State shall adjust the visa validity period, fee schedule, or other treatment to match the treatment of United States nationals by the foreign country, to the extent practicable.
Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:
(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;
(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.
(b) The Secretary of State shall, within one year of the date of this order, provide a report on the estimated long-term costs of the USRAP at the Federal, State, and local levels.
Sec. 11. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
DONALD J. TRUMP
THE WHITE HOUSE, January 27, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/index.html

Thanks for that Carana.

America is a laughing stock, and if this continues, it will grind to a halt.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 09:29:53 AM
The whole article is worth a read, IMO.


The order is nothing short of a Muslim ban by another name. It is cruel and callous, espouses positions contrary to the professed values of the United States, and will certainly produce more problems than it purports to solve. In other words, it’s exactly like Donald Trump.


(...)


Trump’s executive order claims that “the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred”, including those who perpetrate “forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own”. Fair enough.

But, what if such a person learned those heinous lessons while he was already in the US? And what if such a person ran for office? And what if such a person became the president of the US? How do we protect America then?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/trumps-executive-order-officially-gunning-for-muslims
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:19:29 AM
The whole article is worth a read, IMO.


The order is nothing short of a Muslim ban by another name. It is cruel and callous, espouses positions contrary to the professed values of the United States, and will certainly produce more problems than it purports to solve. In other words, it’s exactly like Donald Trump.


(...)


Trump’s executive order claims that “the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred”, including those who perpetrate “forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own”. Fair enough.

But, what if such a person learned those heinous lessons while he was already in the US? And what if such a person ran for office? And what if such a person became the president of the US? How do we protect America then?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/trumps-executive-order-officially-gunning-for-muslims

"The order is nothing short of a Muslim ban by another name".....

Except for the fact that, there's no restriction on travel from....

Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Nigeria.....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 10:22:26 AM
"The order is nothing short of a Muslim ban by another name".....

Except for the fact that, there's no restriction on travel from....

Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Nigeria.....


For the moment.

The order mentions 9/11 as part of the rationale... but none of the 19 terrorists came from the countries on his list.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:32:36 AM

For the moment.

The order mentions 9/11 as part of the rationale... but none of the 19 terrorists came from the countries on his list.

Am I missing something?

Oh right,  Trump's going to ban travel by All Muslims is he.

Righto,  let me know when that happens...

In the meantime, here are some more Muslim countries from which travel isn't restricted.....

Albania, Algeria , Azerbaijan, Brunei,  Egypt , Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morrocco, Turkey, the UAE...
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 10:35:04 AM

For the moment.

The order mentions 9/11 as part of the rationale... but none of the 19 terrorists came from the countries on his list.

Am I missing something?

Indeed.

...and the role of the Saudis in financing and backing terrorism is known.

Also, their predilection for beheading people on a daily basis. Yet Trump and other administrations support them, and good ol' Trump did business there. Still does though, through his offspring.

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 10:36:59 AM
Oh right,  Trump's going to ban travel by All Muslims is he.

Righto,  let me know when that happens...

In the meantime, here are some more Muslim countries from which travel isn't restricted.....

Albania, Algeria , Azerbaijan, Brunei,  Egypt , Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morrocco, Turkey, the UAE...

Yet aren't we told there are terrorists in some of those countries.

Then of course, we have home grown ones like the retarded imbecile who murdered Jo Cox.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:38:11 AM

......Bahrain, Sudan, Uzbekistan, Niger, Tunisia..
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:39:33 AM
... Lebanon
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 10:47:56 AM
@ Spam

The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda. 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, and the others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon.
Hijackers in the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 10:50:29 AM
...... Libya, Lebanon
Libya is on the list.  How long before more are added?  My sister was born in Malaysia.  How long before she has to jump through hoops before being allowed to travel to the  USA?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:51:09 AM
Libya is on the list.  How long before more are added?  My sister was born in Malaysia.  How long before she has to jump through hoops before being allowed to travel to the  USA?

Not my problem.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 10:52:48 AM
Yet aren't we told there are terrorists in some of those countries.

Then of course, we have home grown ones like the retarded imbecile who murdered Jo Cox.

Or the US case of white supremacist Dylann Roof who murdered all those Blacks at a prayer meeting...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-dylann-roof-sentencing-20170110-story.html

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 10:55:51 AM
Or the US case of white supremacist Dylann Roof who murdered all those Blacks at a prayer meeting...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-dylann-roof-sentencing-20170110-story.html



Racist.

They were 'people' not 'Blacks'

Hypocrite.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 11:01:21 AM


Indonesia.....260 million,  mostly Muslim,  No travel restriction there...

Not much of 'Muslim Ban' really, is it?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 11:03:32 AM
Not my problem.
Did I say it was?  No.  However, If it was down to you, you'd probably want all women to be denied the right to travel anywhere so that they are forced to stay home bring up umpteen children, cooking and cleaning and putting out for their husbands, a bit like in the most backward looking Muslim countries in fact... &%+((£
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 11:04:11 AM

Indonesia.....260 million,  mostly Muslim,  No travel restriction there...

Not much of 'Muslim Ban' really, is it?
So what's the point of it then? 
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 11:16:42 AM
Racist.

They were 'people' not 'Blacks'

Hypocrite.

No, I'm not being racist or hypocritical.

Of course they are people, but he targeted them *because* they were Black.

From the article:
Roof told FBI agents when they arrested him after the June 17, 2015, slayings that he wanted the shootings to bring back segregation or perhaps start a race war.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 11:28:16 AM
So what's the point of it then?

It's only a 90 day ban, my guess, is that the vetting process will be amended during this time....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 11:30:30 AM


Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 11:31:46 AM
It's only a 90 day ban, my guess, is that the vetting process will be amended during this time....
amended based on what?  Why 90 days? Why only 6 countries?  It's all a bit "random" isn't it?  Did he pull country names and numbers out of a hat (or his capacious arse) I wonder...?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 11:34:59 AM
amended based on what?  Why 90 days? Why only 6 countries?  It's all a bit "random" isn't it?  Did he pull country names and numbers out of a hat (or his capacious arse) I wonder...?

I've honestly no idea..

But the MSM are quite happy to call it a 'Muslim Ban', not that they stir shit up or anything, despite the fact that, as I've pointed out, more muslim countries are excluded than included within the ban.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 11:37:36 AM

I've seen it suggested on other social media that Trumps ban could incite terrorism.

Which is amusing, because we've been told for some time that Islam & terrorism are unconnected.

& not forgetting of course that Islam is the religion of peace....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
I have no problem with any country trying to improve national security. I don't have a problem with Sec. 10, either, in theory. However, unless there is currently a specific law prohibiting law enforcement from collating such information, or media from reporting on the nationality of perpetrators, I don't quite see the point of it.

I am also curious as to whether there will be an additional order to make terror-related information available involving US nationals.

If not, why not?


Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:
(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;
(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 11:55:32 AM
I've honestly no idea..

But the MSM are quite happy to call it a 'Muslim Ban', not that they stir shit up or anything, despite the fact that, as I've pointed out, more muslim countries are excluded than included within the ban.
So, if you were controlling the media, this would not be a ban, nor would it be targeted at Muslims, right?  Despite the fact that Trump made it quite clear during his campaign that he wanted to ban Muslims from entering the US, it's still not a ban, and it's still not directed at Muslims.. Okie dokes then. %&5%£
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 12:10:10 PM
More questions...

"After the US-led invasion of Iraq, the Middle East saw the largest refugee crisis since the Palestinian exodus from Israel in 1948. That has now been surpassed by the Syrian refugee crisis."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/datablog/2017/jan/28/us-immigrants-syria-iraq-iran-sudan-libya-somalia-yemen

- Why is there a specific and indefinite ban on Syrian refugees?

- Why are the countries of origin of the perps of the terrorist attacks cited as a rationale NOT on the ban list?

- The acts of the Norwegian white supremacist terrorist, Breivik, shocked the world. So why aren't all Norwegian citizens on the ban list?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
So, if you were controlling the media, this would not be a ban, nor would it be targeted at Muslims, right? Despite the fact that Trump made it quite clear during his campaign that he wanted to ban Muslims from entering the US, it's still not a ban, and it's still not directed at Muslims.. Okie dokes then. %&5%£


....."untill our countries representatives can figure out what the hell is going on"   (temporary)

...and millions of Muslims from Muslim countries, are not icluded in the 'Muslim' ban.

= not a Muslim ban.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 01:08:19 PM
Interesting to see how the Hebrew press has reacted:

 Hebrew media review
Far from US, Trump’s ban rankles Israeli press
A quadruple homicide in northern Israel and Trump’s executive order banning Muslim immigrants has papers in an uproar on Sunday

http://www.timesofisrael.com/far-from-us-trumps-ban-rankles-israeli-press/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 01:14:59 PM

....."untill our countries representatives can figure out what the hell is going on"   (temporary)

...and millions of Muslims from Muslim countries, are not icluded in the 'Muslim' ban.

= not a Muslim ban.

No, it's not a blanket Muslim ban (for the moment, anyway), contrary to his pledge during his campaign.

But why have certain majority-Muslim countries been selected and not others?

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 01:16:18 PM
Do you think Americans living and working abroad in embassies for example are safer from the threat of terrorism today than they were a week ago?  Seriously, how does this lessen the threat from terrorism?  And why is threat of terrorism the number one priority when the number of deaths from gun crime and mass shootings far outstrips deaths from Islamic terrorist incidents on a year by year basis? 316,000 deaths by shootings since 2004 in the USA compared to 313 American deaths from terrorism worldwide.

http://kfor.com/2015/10/02/american-deaths-in-terrorism-vs-gun-violence-in-one-graph/

It is not an overnight fix but the US will be safer in the long term.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 01:18:39 PM
Bloody hell, John, are you for real?

If I was you, I'd batten down the hatches, bend over and kiss my arse goodbye.

Actually I had no time for Trump previously but I find him to be a man on a mission and a refreshing breath of fresh air blowing through a world of stale politics.  If he puts America back to work and annihilates the terrorists then I all for it.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 01:27:52 PM
Giuliani to the rescue...

He and various lawyers toned down Trump's original blanket ban on Muslims to those from specific countries that apparently represent a "danger".

What "facts" is Giuliani talking about?

Are the countries selected due to current specific intelligence concerns?

Or is it merely the fact (assuming that it is correct) that the US is currently bombing 6 out of the 7 countries?

"Friday’s executive order initiates an immediate 90-day suspension of issuing visas to people from select countries, which currently are Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Sudan and Somalia. The list could be expanded. But do you notice anything peculiar about this particular group of nations? It can’t be that nationals of all those countries have committed acts of terrorism in the US, because they haven’t. But it is true that six of the seven countries are currently being bombed by the US, and that most of these countries have also suffered invasions or overthrows by the US."

First, we bomb you. Then we ban you.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/27/trumps-executive-order-officially-gunning-for-muslims


Trump originally asked for ‘Muslim ban’ says Giuliani
Ex-NYC mayor and White House aide says US president sought legal avenues to ban people from ‘dangerous’ Muslim-majority countries
By AFP January 29, 2017, 2:33 pm 2


NEW YORK — Donald Trump originally dubbed his executive order suspending refugee arrivals and barring visas for travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries a “Muslim ban,” according to the US president’s aide Rudy Giuliani.

“When he first announced it he said, ‘Muslim ban,'” the former New York mayor told Fox News late Saturday when asked whether the ban was connected to religion.

“Show me the right way to do it legally,” Giuliani — who Trump has tapped as his cybersecurity guru — said the US president told him.

The 72-year-old said he and a team of legal experts “focused on — instead of religion — danger!” when they drafted the immigration crackdown that has sparked a global outcry and mass protests.

Trump’s sweeping executive order, signed Friday, suspends the arrival of refugees for at least 120 days and prohibits issuing visas for travelers from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen for the next three months.

Giuliani said those predominantly Muslim countries were targeted because they are “the areas of the world that create danger for us.”

“Which is a factual basis, not a religious basis,” he said.

The crackdown on Muslim immigration has infuriated civil rights groups and activists.

A federal judge blocked Saturday part of Trump’s ban, ordering authorities not to deport refugees and other travelers detained at US airports.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-originally-asked-for-muslim-ban-says-giuliani/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 01:47:38 PM
What is clear is that there is a showdown coming between the President and the federal courts.

(http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2017/1/29/fc18b755b72e4e18a03b1f20e2505cda_18.jpg)

A federal judge has blocked part of President Donald Trump's executive order on immigration, ruling that  travellers who have already landed in the US with valid visas should not be sent back to their home countries.

Lawyers  had filed a legal case in response to the order that includes a  90-day entry ban on citizens of seven Muslim-majority nations.

US District Judge Ann Donnelly's ruling  late on Saturday concerns dozens of people who were detained at US airports following Trump's actions.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which had filed a class action lawsuit against the ban, hailed the temporary stay of execution as a victory.

"This ruling preserves the status quo and ensures that people who have been granted permission to be in this country are not illegally removed off US soil,"  Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project, said.


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/trump-order-170129030842119.html
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 01:50:48 PM

....."untill our countries representatives can figure out what the hell is going on"   (temporary)

...and millions of Muslims from Muslim countries, are not icluded in the 'Muslim' ban.

= not a Muslim ban.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 01:52:23 PM

I can't for the life of me imagine why Donald Trump would want stronger vetting of travelers from, let's say...

Syria.....

I mean, they've only been teeming with ISIS & in the grip of a nasty civil war for the past 5 years...

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 01:54:03 PM
Actually I had no time for Trump previously but I find him to be a man on a mission and a refreshing breath of fresh air blowing through a world of stale politics.  If he puts America back to work and annihilates the terrorists then I all for it.

I'd agree with that, John, but I find that his simplistic and bombastic approach is more likely to achieve the opposite, IMO. He could have approached the issue in a much quieter fashion by simply ensuring that tabs were kept on current people travelling in or through the US, as well as on refugees, then announcing, once the reviews had been conducted, that the rules had changed.

He didn't do that though, did he? All it appears to have achieved is a perception of anti-Muslim rhetoric.

Does he really think that ISIS will simply go away and sit on a naughty step?

Will it protect the US from pre-existing sleeper cells?

Will it protect US citizens travelling abroad (and anyone else with them) from being primary targets?

Do you seriously think that ISIS won't use it to recruit more radical nutjobs?

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 01:55:21 PM
I can't for the life of me imagine why Donald Trump would want stronger vetting of travelers from, let's say...

Syria.....

I mean, they've only been teeming with ISIS & in the grip of a nasty civil war for the past 5 years...

The US has woken up at last to the terrible reality that they cannot keep taking the world's refugees indefinitely.  People might not realise it yet but a new world order is about to be created.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
I'd agree with that, John, but I find that his simplistic and bombastic approach is more likely to achieve the opposite, IMO. He could have approached the issue in a much quieter fashion by simply ensuring that tabs were kept on current people travelling in or through the US, as well as on refugees, then announcing, once the reviews had been conducted, that the rules had changed.

He didn't do that though, did he? All it appears to have achieved is a perception of anti-Muslim rhetoric.

Does he really think that ISIS will simply go away and sit on a naughty step?

Will it protect the US from pre-existing sleeper cells?

Will it protect US citizens travelling abroad (and anyone else with them) from being primary targets?

Do you seriously think that ISIS won't use it to recruit more radical nutjobs?

Trump is out to destroy Daesh so watch this space.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
The US has woken up at last to the terrible reality that they cannot keep taking the world's refugees indefinitely.  People might not realise it yet but a new world order is about to be created.
Ah, the Neuordnung.  And how do you envisage the world to be in this glorious new order? 
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 02:01:19 PM
Ah, the Neuordnung.  And how do you envisage the world to be in this glorious new order?

Heaven knows but the old ways of doing business are about to crumble to dust.  Trump is going in hard and then taking stock, a well tried and tested technique. Interesting times!
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:01:57 PM
I can't for the life of me imagine why Donald Trump would want stronger vetting of travelers from, let's say...

Syria.....

I mean, they've only been teeming with ISIS & in the grip of a nasty civil war for the past 5 years...

Who is "they"?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:08:28 PM
Who is "they"?

Ok, then  'it'.

Syria.

How about Yemen...

An on going civil war, several regions held by Al-Qaeda & ISIL.

Nope, can't see any threat there....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:09:59 PM
The US has woken up at last to the terrible reality that they cannot keep taking the world's refugees indefinitely.  People might not realise it yet but a new world order is about to be created.

Is it safe to assume that you're not Jewish, John?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:14:05 PM


Somalia......Civil war since 1990....

Occuppied by Al Shabaab...afiliated with Alqaeda....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:18:21 PM


Libya....civil war, since 2011, has areas occupied by ISIL....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 02:18:43 PM
This anti-Trump petition is going up by hundreds every few seconds,it's incredible!  No state visit for Trump, let him in, but deny him access to the Queen and all the pomp the pompous prick revels in
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:20:35 PM
This anti-Trump petition is going up by hundreds every few seconds,it's incredible!  No state visit for Trump, let him in, but deny him access to the Queen and all the pomp the pompous prick revels in
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928

ISIS supporting traitors petition.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:21:07 PM
Ok, then  'it'.

Syria.

How about Yemen...

An on going civil war, several regions held by Al-Qaeda & ISIL.

Nope, can't see any threat there....

What are you advocating? Support for dictatorships?

A classified document, seen by Sky News, says Syrian government forces have "ethnically cleansed swathes of Syria" with help from their partners Russia and Iran.

http://news.sky.com/story/syria-ethnic-cleansing-claim-amid-fears-for-two-million-kettled-in-idlib-10746424

Are you ok with that?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
This anti-Trump petition is going up by hundreds every few seconds,it's incredible!  No state visit for Trump, let him in, but deny him access to the Queen and all the pomp the pompous prick revels in
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928

I doubt that a petitition based on "misogyny and vulgarity" is likely to pull much weight...
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:24:39 PM
What are you advocating? Support for dictatorships?

A classified document, seen by Sky News, says Syrian government forces have "ethnically cleansed swathes of Syria" with help from their partners Russia and Iran.

http://news.sky.com/story/syria-ethnic-cleansing-claim-amid-fears-for-two-million-kettled-in-idlib-10746424

Are you ok with that?

I don't lose any sleep over it.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:30:29 PM
I don't lose any sleep over it.

You don't lose any sleep over ethnic cleansing? Or large quantities of innocent people, including children, left without food, water, shelter or medicine?

How is that kind of attitude likely to promote greater stability?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 02:33:34 PM
I doubt that a petitition based on "misogyny and vulgarity" is likely to pull much weight...
It's going to have to get a response from government and there are already calls from the leaders of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP calling for the same thing.  Not that it will have any effect and we'll still have to suffer the ignominy of that pompous ass being treated to the full works, including (he has requested) playing golf at Balmoral while the Queen has to watch.  It's all rather obscene... @)(++(*
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 02:38:27 PM
The US has woken up at last to the terrible reality that they cannot keep taking the world's refugees indefinitely.  People might not realise it yet but a new world order is about to be created.

New World Order ???

That has echoes in history.


The wrong echoes.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 02:43:29 PM
This anti-Trump petition is going up by hundreds every few seconds,it's incredible!  No state visit for Trump, let him in, but deny him access to the Queen and all the pomp the pompous prick revels in
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928

Thanks for the link.

I doubt the petition will have much effect, but it makes a statement.

Does the Queen have to meet him ????
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
Heaven knows but the old ways of doing business are about to crumble to dust.  Trump is going in hard and then taking stock, a well tried and tested technique. Interesting times!

Trump is not a thinker, he just reacts, with tantrums.

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:49:10 PM
It's going to have to get a response from government and there are already calls from the leaders of Labour, Lib Dems and SNP calling for the same thing.  Not that it will have any effect and we'll still have to suffer the ignominy of that pompous ass being treated to the full works, including (he has requested) playing golf at Balmoral while the Queen has to watch.  It's all rather obscene... @)(++(*

Yes, I've just seen calls from other quarters to at least postpone the visit. Awkward.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/theresa-may-under-pressure-to-condemn-trumps-us-travel-ban
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:49:12 PM
You don't lose any sleep over ethnic cleansing? Or large quantities of innocent people, including children, left without food, water, shelter or medicine?

How is that kind of attitude likely to promote greater stability?

You're either on the side of Assad, i.e secularism in Syria, or, you're with ISIS, & support having an Islamic rule & Sharia law imposed...the civil war in a nutshell.

I believe Sharia Law belongs in the middle ages & should be carpet bombed all the way back there.

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 29, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
You're either on the side of Assad, i.e secularism in Syria, or, you're with ISIS, & support having an Islamic rule & Sharia law imposed...the civil war in a nutshell.

I believe Sharia Law belongs in the middle ages & should be carpet bombed all the way back there.

That's a somewhat manichean view, isn't it?

What about all the people who were simply protesting against the dictatorship in place and asking for change? Or those who decided not to get involved in protesting?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 02:55:35 PM
That's a somewhat manichean view, isn't it?

What about all the people who were simply protesting against the dictatorship in place and asking for change? Or those who decided not to get involved in protesting?

They were probably Muslim....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 03:07:45 PM
You're either on the side of Assad, i.e secularism in Syria, or, you're with ISIS, & support having an Islamic rule & Sharia law imposed...the civil war in a nutshell.

I believe Sharia Law belongs in the middle ages & should be carpet bombed all the way back there.
But there is so much in Sharia Law for you to approve of, that's what I don't understand.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 03:36:14 PM


Sunday Times writer India Knight...

"The assassination is taking such a long time"

https://twitter.com/search?q=India+Knight&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Esearch


Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 03:45:55 PM
Petition over 330,000 already and hundreds of signatures being added by the second. 
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 03:54:08 PM


Libtard hysteria,  overflowing by the second.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 04:11:35 PM
360,000 now....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 29, 2017, 04:49:35 PM
360,000 now....

Bunch of idiots!!
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 04:50:48 PM


ISIS supporters...
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 04:55:46 PM


Trump’s Executive Order on Refugees — Separating Fact from Hysteria

The hysterical rhetoric about President Trump’s executive order on refugees is out of control. Let’s slow down and take a look at the facts.

To read the online commentary, one would think that President Trump just fundamentally corrupted the American character. You would think that the executive order on refugees he signed yesterday betrayed America’s Founding ideals. You might even think he banned people from an entire faith from American shores.

...

CNN, doing its best Huffington Post impersonation, ran a headline declaring “Trump bans 134,000,000 from the U.S.” The Huffington Post, outdoing itself, just put the Statue of Liberty upside down on its front page.

So, what did Trump do?

Did he implement his promised Muslim ban? No, far from it. He backed down dramatically from his campaign promises and instead signed an executive order dominated mainly by moderate refugee restrictions and temporary provisions aimed directly at limiting immigration from jihadist conflict zones.

......

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 29, 2017, 05:00:44 PM
New World Order ???

That has echoes in history.


The wrong echoes.

Maybe you would prefer to live in a Muslim dominated country ruled by Sharia Law.  Careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 29, 2017, 05:05:08 PM

Sunday Times writer India Knight...

"The assassination is taking such a long time"

https://twitter.com/search?q=India+Knight&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Esearch

Somebody should put her in a cage, douse her in petrol and drop a lit match on her!"
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 05:10:32 PM

So, 

Is Trump's executive order a Muslim ban ?.....

Here's a list of majority Muslim countries by order of population....


Indonesia,  population 204 million,  Not banned.

Pakistan,  178 million,   Not banned.

India, 172 m,    Not banned.

Bangladesh, 145 m,    Not banned.

Nigeria,  75 m,     Not banned.

Iran,  75 m,  Temporary ban.

Turkey, 74 m,  Not banned.

Egypt, 73m  Not banned.

....



Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 05:24:04 PM
Somebody should put her in a cage, douse her in petrol and drop a lit match on her!"
Words fail. ?8)@)-)
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 05:24:47 PM
So, 

Is Trump's executive order a Muslim ban ?.....

Here's a list of majority Muslim countries by order of population....


Indonesia,  population 204 million,  Not banned.

Pakistan,  178 million,   Not banned.

India, 172 m,    Not banned.

Bangladesh, 145 m,    Not banned.

Nigeria,  75 m,     Not banned.

Iran,  75 m,  Temporary ban.

Turkey, 74 m,  Not banned.

Egypt, 73m  Not banned.

....
Yet.  How many muslims need to be banned before its a Muslim ban in your view?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 05:34:05 PM

Yet.  How many muslims need to be banned before its a Muslim ban in your view?

All of them, obviously, otherwise it's a nationality ban.

Which at the moment, by weight of....

World population of Muslims unaffected vs World population of Muslims affected,..... it is.

& by a small factor of several hundred million....


Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 05:45:47 PM
Maybe you would prefer to live in a Muslim dominated country ruled by Sharia Law.  Careful what you wish for.

I wouldn't want to live in any country ruled by fudemental religious bigots.

How about you ?

Remember what happened to Galileo.

Pence is of that ilk, and Trump thinks he is God's right hand.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Angelo222 on January 29, 2017, 05:52:47 PM
I would no more want to live in any country ruled by fundamental religious bigots.

How about you ?

Remember what happened to Galileo.

Pence is of that ilk, and Trump thinks he is God's right hand.

 Pence and Trump are doing something about it.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 29, 2017, 06:06:01 PM
Pence and Trump are doing something about it.

They are zealots themselves.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 06:16:53 PM
All of them, obviously, otherwise it's a nationality ban.

Which at the moment, by weight of....

World population of Muslims unaffected vs World population of Muslims affected,..... it is.

& by a small factor of several hundred million....
LOL.  So it's nothing to do with them being Muslims that they're being banned then, Trump just doesn't like Somalis and Iraqis.  I get it.  Not.  And it's not a ban against Muslims entering the US if there's even just one predominantly Muslim country left unbanned.  Yeah right.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 06:23:16 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/2LD7BGL.png)
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 29, 2017, 06:55:26 PM

LOL.  So it's nothing to do with them being Muslims that they're being banned then, Trump just doesn't like Somalis and Iraqis.  I get it.  Not.  And it's not a ban against Muslims entering the US if there's even just one predominantly Muslim country left unbanned.  Yeah right.

More Muslims are not banned by this Muslim ban, than are banned by it.

Syrian Christians are banned, by the Muslim ban.

Makes sense, seeing as though it's a Muslim ban.

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 08:01:08 PM
More Muslims are not banned by this Muslim ban, than are banned by it.

Syrian Christians are banned, by the Muslim ban.

Makes sense, seeing as though it's a Muslim ban.
None of it makes much sense Spam, face it.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 09:06:15 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/2LD7BGL.png)

Interesting!
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 10:42:06 PM
Earlier today we asked:

Do you support Donald Trump's Executive Order banning entry to the US by certain foreign nationals?

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825663731984109568
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 29, 2017, 10:43:35 PM
We also asked:

Should the UK follow Donald Trumps's example and invoke a ban on certain foreign nationals?

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825664715091218432

Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 29, 2017, 11:03:02 PM
Meanwhile the petition to stop Trump being inflicted on the Queen has risen to over 810,000 signatures....
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: misty on January 29, 2017, 11:04:33 PM
Meanwhile the petition to stop Trump being inflicted on the Queen has risen to over 810,000 signatures....

I wonder how many of his aides will be prepared to fly across the Atlantic with him?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 30, 2017, 08:04:51 AM
I wonder how many of his aides will be prepared to fly across the Atlantic with him?
I'm sure the people of Britain will give them all a very animated reception.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 09:21:23 AM


I see the fake news (Mainstream Media) are still calling Trump's executive order a 'Muslim Ban'....

For those unsure,  read the actual detail of the executive order.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-muslim-executive-order-trump.html?_r=0

Not once does it mention Muslims, or indeed,  banning them.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 30, 2017, 09:29:08 AM
Congressman Justin Amash has called the order “overreach” and Senator Ben Sasse has criticized the ban:

 

While not technically a Muslim ban, this order is too broad. There are two ways to lose our generational battle against jihadism by losing touch with reality. The first is to keep pretending that jihadi terrorism has no connection to Islam or to certain countries. That’s been a disaster.

And here’s the second way to fail: If we send a signal to the Middle East that the US sees all Muslims as jihadis, the terrorist recruiters win by telling kids that America is banning Muslims and that this is America versus one religion. Both approaches are wrong, and both will make us less safe. Our generational fight against jihadism requires wisdom.”
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 09:36:39 AM


 "the terrorist recruiters win by telling kids that America is banning Muslims"


Congratulations MSM, your dishonesty supports Jihadi's.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 09:49:29 AM


"the terrorist recruiters win by telling kids that America is banning Muslims"

........

Jihad Recruiting Telegraph....

Everything you need to know about Donald Trump's 'Muslim ban'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/29/everything-need-know-donald-trumps-muslim-ban/


Lying Daily Mirror.....

Donald Trump's 'Muslim ban' live:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trumps-muslim-ban-live-9714464


Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 30, 2017, 09:55:09 AM
Trump is his own worst enemy.


Meanwhile, from a man who has correctly predicted the people being president for over 30 years.......


 http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/16/allan-lichtman-predicts-donald-trump-could-be-impeached-in-office-within-his-first-term.html
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 10:01:53 AM

I see 6 muslims were shot dead in a Mosque in Quebec yesterday.

No doubt this was done by Trump supporting White Supremacist Islamaphobes, who hate Muslims & were inspired by his 'Muslim Ban'....


Oh no, wait, it was carried out by 2 Muslims who entered Canada from Syria as refugees....



Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 30, 2017, 10:14:08 AM



http://europe.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743?rm=eu

Clearly, these were not the typical “Islamic terrorists” described in the boogeyman stories of American politicians who exploit fear for votes. Glendon Crawford, the industrial mechanic who conceived the plan, has all the panache of a Macy’s shoe salesman; Eric Feight, a software engineer who helped build the device, looks like a less impish version of Kurt Vonnegut. But their harmless appearance belies their beliefs—Crawford was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and the plot he hatched with Feight involved killing scores of Muslims, as well as officials at the governor’s mansion in Albany, New York and at the White House.

ADVERTISEMENT

They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead. These Americans thrive on hate and conspiracy theories, many fed to them by politicians and commentators who blithely blather about government concentration camps and impending martial law and plans to seize guns and other dystopian gibberish, apparently unaware there are people listening who don’t know it’s all lies. These extremists turn to violence—against minorities, non-Christians, abortion providers, government officials—in what they believe is a fight to save America. And that potential for violence is escalating every day.

“Law enforcement agencies in the United States consider anti-government violent extremists, not radicalized Muslims, to be the most severe threat of political violence that they face,” the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security reported this past June, based on surveys of 382 law enforcement groups.

The problem is getting worse, although few outside of law enforcement know it. Multiple confidential sources notified the FBI last year that militia members have been conducting surveillance on Muslim schools, community centers and mosques in nine states for what one informant described as “operational purposes.” Informants also notified federal law enforcement that Mississippi militia extremists discussed kidnapping and beheading a Muslim, then posting a video of the decapitation on the Internet. The FBI also learned that right-wing extremists have created bogus law enforcement and diplomatic identifications, not because these radicals want to pretend to be police and ambassadors, but because they believe they hold those positions in a government they have created within the United States.

The unusual—and often daffy—world view of some right-wing extremists was on daily display during the January armed takeover of federal facilities at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. Expressing dismay that two ranchers convicted of arson were ordered to serve out the remainder of their mandatory minimum prison sentences, members of various militia groups occupied a building at the wildlife refuge, declaring their willingness to fight the government and, if necessary, die for their cause. They proclaimed that the federal government was tyrannical, that the Constitution is under siege.

The Malheur occupiers were belittled on late night talk shows and social media as “y’all-Qaeda” and “yee-haw-dists,” but what was unfolding in Oregon wasn’t funny—it was frightening. These people speak of martyrdom, bloodbaths and killings, sentiments that can be heard on any Islamist recruitment video. And when law enforcement finally took action on January 26 in a mass arrest, one of the militia members, Robert “LaVoy” Finicum—who had proclaimed he would rather die than go to jail—was shot dead........................

and for a slice of history.........

http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html


and........


http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_modern_day_christian_terrorist_groups_our_media_conveniently_ignores_partner/


So it's not just nutters claiming to represent Islam, is it Spam ?


Will your hero Trump ban people like them ?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 10:18:05 AM


Will he ban them?

You mean like how he hasn't banned Muslims?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 30, 2017, 10:25:10 AM

Will he ban them?

You mean like how he hasn't banned Muslims?

We will have to see what the Courts do with the lunatic Trump and his pathetic 'precedental' decrees.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 30, 2017, 11:45:03 AM
On the News services it has been reported that people from the 7 countries concerned, who have applied for visas to the States, or made appointments with the American Embassy, have been told not to bother.

Mmm.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 30, 2017, 12:43:37 PM
I see 6 muslims were shot dead in a Mosque in Quebec yesterday.

No doubt this was done by Trump supporting White Supremacist Islamaphobes, who hate Muslims & were inspired by his 'Muslim Ban'....


Oh no, wait, it was carried out by 2 Muslims who entered Canada from Syria as refugees....
Do you have a cite for this please?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 30, 2017, 01:15:52 PM

Will he ban them?

You mean like how he hasn't banned Muslims?

Ask Steve Bannon, the right wing white supremacist, 'advising' Trump.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 30, 2017, 02:12:29 PM
Do you have a cite for this please?

No, but it'd be hilarious if it were true.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 30, 2017, 06:01:08 PM
No, but it'd be hilarious if it were true.
So you're just spreading fake news, for the LOLs.  Nice bloke arent' you?  Not.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 30, 2017, 07:50:40 PM

 "the terrorist recruiters win by telling kids that America is banning Muslims"


Congratulations MSM, your dishonesty supports Jihadi's.


Can someone show me where it is said that the US have barred entry to citizens of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and The Philippines?

The terror recruiters are.............................oh f***k it there are several good books and essays on the topic, far better informed than the Grauniad and Mirror, that give the full SP for anyone who is really interested.........
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alfie on January 30, 2017, 10:34:45 PM
I see 6 muslims were shot dead in a Mosque in Quebec yesterday.

No doubt this was done by Trump supporting White Supremacist Islamaphobes, who hate Muslims & were inspired by his 'Muslim Ban'....


Oh no, wait, it was carried out by 2 Muslims who entered Canada from Syria as refugees....
Looks like your first prediction was right.
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/30/canadian-mosque-shooting-suspect-was-a-white-man-who-showed-support-for-donald-trump-on-social-media/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 31, 2017, 08:01:07 AM


Black Lives Matter...

"We need to start killing people........white people, give us your money & your house"

https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71/posts/10154954866596171?pnref=story
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 31, 2017, 08:02:52 AM


The truth about Trump's "Muslim Ban"

https://www.facebook.com/PaulJosephWatson/videos/1511921288835353/
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 31, 2017, 08:15:00 AM
...and here is the instigator of the trouble.


Psychologists warn Donald Trump 'displays all the classic signs of being mentally ill narcissist'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/psychologists-warn-president-displays-classic-9724221
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 31, 2017, 09:29:06 AM
...and here is the instigator of the trouble.


Psychologists warn Donald Trump 'displays all the classic signs of being mentally ill narcissist'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/psychologists-warn-president-displays-classic-9724221

Indeed, his foes are many.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 31, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
I see he's now fired Sally Yates and Steve Bannon is now formally part of the National Security Council...

As one banner helpfully suggested: "Build a wall around Trump".
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 31, 2017, 09:42:22 AM
Indeed, his foes are many.


No John, the problem has always been Trump himself.

Pampered beyond belief, surrounded by 'yes men and women', he has never had to grow up........


,,,,,,and it is much too late for that now.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 31, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
I see he's now fired Sally Yates and Steve Bannon is now formally part of the National Security Council...

As one banner helpfully suggested: "Build a wall around Trump".

A good suggestion.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: John on January 31, 2017, 09:57:44 AM
Did anyone notice the massaged snap poll Sky News aired yesterday asking viewers if they supported Trump and if a similar ban should be imposed in the UK?

Our own poll shows the vast majority support Trump and also support introduction of similar measures in the UK.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825663731984109568

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825664715091218432
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: stephen25000 on January 31, 2017, 10:11:06 AM
Did anyone notice the massaged snap poll Sky News aired yesterday asking viewers if they supported Trump and if a similar ban should be imposed in the UK?

Our own poll shows the vast majority support Trump and also support introduction of similar measures in the UK.

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825663731984109568

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/825664715091218432


I've seen the numbers on the petition, and on the twitter page.

Hardly comparable.

 8)-)))

' But perhaps the best authority might be the American Psychiatry Association - which has over the years developed a nine-point checklist for narcissism.

If someone displays just FIVE of these traits they are defined as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

Requires excessive admiration

Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognise or identify with the feelings and needs of others

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

Shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes.


------------------------------------------------------

Sounds familiar, doesn't it. 8(0(*
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 31, 2017, 10:58:24 AM
Indeed, his foes are many.

I'm not entirely surprised...

He's making Kim Yong-un seem quite rational.

Re his foes: I expect he's considered as manna from heaven for ISIS.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Carana on January 31, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
As this appeared on a satirical show, I wondered if it was a spoof or not. Nope, he really did tweet this:

Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/826060143825666051
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 31, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
Indeed, his foes are many.

I can never read or hear that word without thinking of Rutland Weekend Television's "Incident at Bromsgrove"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJiY55mi6DA    ?{)(**
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 31, 2017, 05:29:44 PM
I'm not entirely surprised...

He's making Kim Yong-un seem quite rational.

Re his foes: I expect he's considered as manna from heaven for ISIS.

Even bearing in mind ISIL's objectives and beliefs ?
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 31, 2017, 08:59:00 PM
Even bearing in mind ISIL's objectives and beliefs ?
Shame on you Alice.. ISIL are victims of the mad bad west oppression. Freedomfighters 'allegedly'

Anyways, I am going to march against Trumpsie, call him all sorts of  unflattering names  just as soon as he starts demanding FGM for all females, removing them from any education facility, forcing them to cover themselves up, stoning them to death for alleged adultery, and public beheadngs for those who don't agree with his policies! yes sir I will be right on his case!
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 31, 2017, 10:25:06 PM
Shame on you Alice.. ISIL are victims of the mad bad west oppression. Freedomfighters 'allegedly'

Anyways, I am going to march against Trumpsie, call him all sorts of  unflattering names  just as soon as he starts demanding FGM for all females, removing them from any education facility, forcing them to cover themselves up, stoning them to death for alleged adultery, and public beheadngs for those who don't agree with his policies! yes sir I will be right on his case!

They don't go a bundle on a lot of Muslims either.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 12, 2017, 02:19:28 PM
They don't go a bundle on a lot of Muslims either.

Them muslins are not proper muslins they are classed as Infadels- like us western folks.
Title: Re: Trump signs Executive Order banning certain foreign nationals from US.
Post by: kmoore1967 on May 28, 2018, 05:36:49 PM
The man is a disgrace and if he thinks that fanning the flames of racial hatred is going to prevent terrorism on US soil or against US nationals then he's very, very stupid as well.

Would you care to see the bill S.1033 that was cosponsored by Barack Obama and John McCain in 2005?

I can show you the wording from it, and it is exactly what Trump has said. Obama signed it and co-sponsored the words "for our national security" and "protection of American citizens" and "illegal immigration leads to more criminal activity".

Oh, and Obama also sponsored another bill just like it in 2007.

So if Trump is spreading racial hatred for enacting the bills by Obama, then how is he a racist for saying the exact same thing?