UK Justice Forum

Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: John on November 14, 2012, 08:54:07 AM

Title: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: John on November 14, 2012, 08:54:07 AM
This is a subject which has always intrigued me so I am opening it up for debate in the hope that we might get some answers.

For those who aren't too familiar with the case, Jeremy Bamber originally appeared in court some weeks after the murder of his family on charges of breaking into the family caravan business at Osea Caravan Park in Essex and robbing a sum of £980. In order to cover his tracks he trashed the premises in order to make it look like a break-in by persons unknown. The allegations were made against Bamber by his former girlfriend, Julie Mugford, who by then was cooperating with police in relation to the murders. Miss Mugford had accompanied Bamber when he carried out the robbery, Bamber later admitted the offence.

It is interesting to note that Bamber appeared at court on several occasions with his white cardigan pulled over his head. This is something which is quite common with criminals in order to hide their identity.  The cynics among us might say it is an attempt to hide their guilt. It would be interesting to get a psychiatrists viewpoint on this.

(http://i.imgur.com/lAN3Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: John on November 14, 2012, 09:03:35 AM
A short time later Jeremy Bamber was charged with the murder of his family and began to appear at court.  It is now quite amazing to note the change in his demeanour.  The cardigan had gone and Bamber appeared confident and brazen as he again came before the Press.  What had changed?  Why had Bamber gone from cowering coward to a figure of some notoriety who presented himself before the public as if he was some sort of celebrity?

(http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/aug2010/6/4/bamber-sifr-image-1-417269219.jpg)

Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ActualMat on November 14, 2012, 11:03:43 AM
I think originally he was so adament and positive that he wouldn't get caught for the murders that he hid his identity under the cardigan for his court appearances because he didn't want his face out int he public domain.

Then he was charged with the murders, much to his shock, and he became an actor. He acted open and brazen, and showed his face - I still believe he thought he would get off with the crime - it is an act he keeps up to this day.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: puglove on November 14, 2012, 11:29:39 AM
I think originally he was so adament and positive that he wouldn't get caught for the murders that he hid his identity under the cardigan for his court appearances because he didn't want his face out int he public domain.

Then he was charged with the murders, much to his shock, and he became an actor. He acted open and brazen, and showed his face - I still believe he thought he would get off with the crime - it is an act he keeps up to this day.

Exactly what I think, Mat. He was an arrogant liar then, and still is to this day. But not very bright (read his letters!)
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ActualMat on November 14, 2012, 11:58:42 AM
I think originally he was so adament and positive that he wouldn't get caught for the murders that he hid his identity under the cardigan for his court appearances because he didn't want his face out int he public domain.

Then he was charged with the murders, much to his shock, and he became an actor. He acted open and brazen, and showed his face - I still believe he thought he would get off with the crime - it is an act he keeps up to this day.

Exactly what I think, Mat. He was an arrogant liar then, and still is to this day. But not very bright (read his letters!)


It took him a long time to get the guts to commit the murders and in that time he was obsessing over and over with the details and how to do it, he shared this with Julie which shows that the murders were greatly and constantly on his mind.
He was smart....but not quite smart enough.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: Admin on November 14, 2012, 12:19:58 PM
I think originally he was so adament and positive that he wouldn't get caught for the murders that he hid his identity under the cardigan for his court appearances because he didn't want his face out int he public domain.

Then he was charged with the murders, much to his shock, and he became an actor. He acted open and brazen, and showed his face - I still believe he thought he would get off with the crime - it is an act he keeps up to this day.

Exactly what I think, Mat. He was an arrogant liar then, and still is to this day. But not very bright (read his letters!)


It took him a long time to get the guts to commit the murders and in that time he was obsessing over and over with the details and how to do it, he shared this with Julie which shows that the murders were greatly and constantly on his mind.
He was smart....but not quite smart enough.


Do you think he formed the impression (wrongly or rightly) that Julie was in some way supporting what he was planning?
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: John on November 20, 2012, 03:13:36 PM



It took him a long time to get the guts to commit the murders and in that time he was obsessing over and over with the details and how to do it, he shared this with Julie which shows that the murders were greatly and constantly on his mind.
He was smart....but not quite smart enough.


Do you think he formed the impression (wrongly or rightly) that Julie was in some way supporting what he was planning?

I believe he was deluded enough to think that Julie was his partner in crime.  Given that she did accompany him to Osea Caravan Park office where he stole some £980 and trashed the place to make it look as if there had been a break in.  But murder was a trip too far for Julie.

Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: Padgates staff on November 20, 2012, 03:16:12 PM
If Julie had done some cheque fraud and the break in at the caravan park, why was she then not implicated as knowing of the family attack? Having said that, if I imagine myself having that conversation with ANTYONE, maybe they'd think you were very slightly mad.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: huggy on November 20, 2012, 03:21:25 PM
If Julie had done some cheque fraud and the break in at the caravan park, why was she then not implicated as knowing of the family attack? Having said that, if I imagine myself having that conversation with ANTYONE, maybe they'd think you were very slightly mad.
She was either to terrified to tell anyone for fear of being booted out from having any contact with the family or she just wished it was all a bad dream and would all go away in time.   Thats why she told him to go back to bed she probably thought he was having another nightmare or someit.


I think she genuinely loved Jerry and couldn't help herself. 
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: John on November 20, 2012, 05:48:36 PM
If Julie had done some cheque fraud and the break in at the caravan park, why was she then not implicated as knowing of the family attack? Having said that, if I imagine myself having that conversation with ANTYONE, maybe they'd think you were very slightly mad.
She was either to terrified to tell anyone for fear of being booted out from having any contact with the family or she just wished it was all a bad dream and would all go away in time.   Thats why she told him to go back to bed she probably thought he was having another nightmare or someit.


I think she genuinely loved Jerry and couldn't help herself.

I agree huggy.   She was somewhat besotted with Jeremy there is no doubt about it.   I love the bit at the very end of that French video about the case where Julie is interviewed and says, "I feel something for him...but...I just think he is a very sad man"  and shakes her head.  That says it all for me.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 11, 2020, 11:42:18 PM
This is a subject which has always intrigued me so I am opening it up for debate in the hope that we might get some answers.

For those who aren't too familiar with the case, Jeremy Bamber originally appeared in court some weeks after the murder of his family on charges of breaking into the family caravan business at Osea Caravan Park in Essex and robbing a sum of £980. In order to cover his tracks he trashed the premises in order to make it look like a break-in by persons unknown. The allegations were made against Bamber by his former girlfriend, Julie Mugford, who by then was cooperating with police in relation to the murders. Miss Mugford had accompanied Bamber when he carried out the robbery, Bamber later admitted the offence.

It is interesting to note that Bamber appeared at court on several occasions with his white cardigan pulled over his head. This is something which is quite common with criminals in order to hide their identity.  The cynics among us might say it is an attempt to hide their guilt. It would be interesting to get a psychiatrists viewpoint on this.

(http://i.imgur.com/lAN3Q.jpg)



I suspect the coward, Jeremy Bamber, hid his mug in the hope there’d only be a tiny snippet in the local press and it would go unnoticed that he’d been convicted of the burglary of his own mum’s business. He wasn’t grief stricken, either... strange that!
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 12, 2020, 12:28:24 AM
OK he admitted guilt to the burglary and was ashamed, and so he should.

Did he hide his face during the murder trial or after it?   That seems to tell me something. 
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: Brietta on June 12, 2020, 05:46:02 AM
OK he admitted guilt to the burglary and was ashamed, and so he should.

Did he hide his face during the murder trial or after it?   That seems to tell me something.

I think there is an element of enjoying the notoriety.  I have him down as an attention seeker who was enjoying what he thought would be his fifteen minutes of fame.  I don't think for a minute he thought the Crown would be able to nail him and he would soon be free to enjoy spending his money because he was too 'smart' to get caught.

He was nearly right in thinking he was going to get away with it ... it was a very close run thing.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 12, 2020, 08:16:06 AM
OK he admitted guilt to the burglary and was ashamed, and so he should.

Did he hide his face during the murder trial or after it?   That seems to tell me something.

He wasn’t ashamed at all. He enjoyed spending every single penny of that money and hid the fact he was a thief and burglar from his mum and dad for almost two years until he got given away. He’d have never admitted to that, otherwise.

The reason he hid his mug was that he’s a coward.

The only reason he couldn’t stick a jumper over his head at the murder trial was that he was escorted there by prison guards from Brixton Prison and was led in through the prisoners entrance at the back of the court.. There was no NEED to his mug at that case: everyone KNEW he’d been charged,

So that doesn’t tell you anything, Robert — except you have a vivid imagination and bark up the wrong tree.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 12, 2020, 08:21:31 AM
I think there is an element of enjoying the notoriety.  I have him down as an attention seeker who was enjoying what he thought would be his fifteen minutes of fame.  I don't think for a minute he thought the Crown would be able to nail him and he would soon be free to enjoy spending his money because he was too 'smart' to get caught.

He was nearly right in thinking he was going to get away with it ... it was a very close run thing.


Oh, he’s definitely an attention seeker, like most psychopaths.

Like I said, he couldn’t stick his head in a jumper at the murder trial as besides there being no need as he was brought into court via the cells,  and not being allowed to stand in the dock with a woolly jumper over his bonce, everyone knew he was on trial for mass murder.

So there was no point, even if he could have.

The reason he HID when being convicted of THEFT and BURGLARY was that he was hoping his mug wouldn’t get in the papers, and people might miss what could have been a snippet in the local rag. He was wrong on that too...the thicko.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: APRIL on June 12, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
I think there is an element of enjoying the notoriety.  I have him down as an attention seeker who was enjoying what he thought would be his fifteen minutes of fame.  I don't think for a minute he thought the Crown would be able to nail him and he would soon be free to enjoy spending his money because he was too 'smart' to get caught.

He was nearly right in thinking he was going to get away with it ... it was a very close run thing.


Brietta, it was, indeed. Posters talk about his lack of intelligence. Academic he may not have been but he had more than his fair share of cunning. It wouldn't have been by accident had he got away with it. It would have been by design. It was by accident that he didn't.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: ISpyWithMyEye on June 12, 2020, 08:31:52 AM

Brietta, it was, indeed. Posters talk about his lack of intelligence. Academic he may not have been but he had more than his fair share of cunning. It wouldn't have been by accident had he got away with it. It would have been by design. It was by accident that he didn't.


Cunning, yes

But not intelligent enough to be so cunning he thought of everything and every eventuality...hence why he’d have come unstuck even without Julie

Remember, the police were suspicious of him long before Julie came clean

I don’t believe it would have just fizzled out...he’d have got caught soon enough
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: APRIL on June 12, 2020, 08:47:55 AM

Cunning, yes

But not intelligent enough to be so cunning he thought of everything and every eventuality...hence why he’d have come unstuck even without Julie

Remember, the police were suspicious of him long before Julie came clean

I don’t believe it would have just fizzled out...he’d have got caught soon enough


Without pressure from the relatives, I don't believe police -as a body. What individuals thought was irrelevant- would have changed stance. Taff Jones wasn't a man to be gainsaid. As for Jeremy not being cunning enough to think of everything, who could POSSIBLY have imagined a situation in which they have to make two suicide shots, therefore, how could anything have been done to prevent it when the outcome was largely in the victim's hands. All that was necessary was for her, albeit, inadvertently, to move her head.
Title: Re: Why did Bamber go from hiding under his cardigan to poser?
Post by: mrswah on June 12, 2020, 11:30:54 AM
I think there is an element of enjoying the notoriety.  I have him down as an attention seeker who was enjoying what he thought would be his fifteen minutes of fame.  I don't think for a minute he thought the Crown would be able to nail him and he would soon be free to enjoy spending his money because he was too 'smart' to get caught.

He was nearly right in thinking he was going to get away with it ... it was a very close run thing.


Providing he's guilty, I agree with all of this!