UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: carlymichelle on October 08, 2018, 08:17:47 AM

Title: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: carlymichelle on October 08, 2018, 08:17:47 AM
https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/08/14/25/madeleine-mccann-alive-held-captive-david-edgar-theory-no-evidence-former-editor-claims


There is "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive and living with her abductor in Portugal, according to a former leading UK newspaper editor.

Last week a retired UK detective claimed Maddie, who would now be 15 years old, was probably still somewhere in Portugal, and could even remain held captive in the small Algarve coastal town where she vanished more than 11 years ago.

Ex-cop David Edgar told British tabloid The Sun how he believed Maddie may not even be aware that she has been the subject of a massive worldwide search which began in May 2007.

But the recently retired editor of The Sunday Express, Martin Townsend, today described Edgar as being "wedded" to that theory since being hired by the McCanns in 2008.

Appearing on Channel Nine's TODAY, Townsend was asked if there was any evidence which backed up Edgar's belief. "No, none whatsoever," he replied.

"It is a theory that David Edgar, this detective, has actually expounded before. He is absolutely wedded to it," Townsend added.
Taken in 2009, private investigator Dave Edgar with McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell holding an e-fit of a 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' they believe may have information about missing Madeleine McCann. (Getty)
Taken in 2009, private investigator Dave Edgar with McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell holding an e-fit of a 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' they believe may have information about missing Madeleine McCann. (Getty) ()

Edgar, now aged 61, worked for Kate and Gerry McCann from 2008 until 2011, which is when London's Metropolitan Police launched Operation Grange to review and investigate Madeleine's mysterious disappearance.
Related Articles

    Madeleine McCann online store closes, as Operation Grange clock keeps ticking
    Madeleine McCann cops will 'request more money' before Operation Grange deadline expires
    Madeleine McCann funding milestone looms, 11 years after girl vanishes

Of all the British newspapers, it was The Express group, including Townsend's The Sunday Express, which took the most aggressive stance on Madeleine's case, and unproven theories about the possible involvement of her parents.

Mr and Mrs McCann have always steadfastly denied any knowledge of how their daughter vanished and disputed many of the stories and headlines which appeared in The Express newspaper group. In 2008 the couple from Rothley, Leicestershire successfully sued The Express group for £550,000.

Townsend told Channel Nine there was "some sort of logic" to Edgar's theory, which arose from a potential line of inquiry a pedophile gang stole Maddie.

"The window of opportunity to abduct [Madeleine] was so small that the operation to take her from that holiday apartment must have been very well thought through," Townsend said.
Madeleine Beth McCann vanished in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The case remains unsolved. (Supplied)
Madeleine Beth McCann vanished in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The case remains unsolved. (Supplied) (AAP)

The one-time Portuguese lead detective on the case, Goncalo Amaral, wrote an explosive book in 2008, hypothesising an unproven theory that Maddie died in apartment 5A and her abduction had been simulated.

Several months after Maddie vanished Mr and Mrs McCann were declared arguidos, a kind of formal suspect, but that legal status was lifted when the case was shelved in 2008.

Townsend said Mr and Mrs McCann have come under "tremendous pressure" and the search for Madeleine had taken an enormous toll on the pair.

"They are still absolutely committed to finding their daughter," Townsend said.

"They have never given up hope … both parents think she is in Portugal somewhere, and hopefully still alive."

Operation Grange has cost British taxpayers more than $20 million.

FOLLOW: Mark Saunokonoko on Twitter

© Nine Digital Pty Ltd 2018
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 08, 2018, 09:28:01 AM
I rather think she is living in another country.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 08, 2018, 09:35:35 AM
There is no evidence that Madeleine is not alive.

Which makes one wonder at the motives behind those who desperately push an agenda that she is dead and therefore it is a waste of money trying to locate her or to find out what happened to her after her parents put her to bed on 3rd May 2007.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 08, 2018, 09:37:54 AM
I rather think she is living in another country.

It's all hocus pocus Robbie. Redwood knew what her fate was but he had neither the time, cooperation or resources to find her.  Her remains lie undiscovered in Luz to this day imo.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 08, 2018, 09:43:59 AM
It's all hocus pocus Robbie. Redwood knew what her fate was but he had neither the time, cooperation or resources to find her.  Her remains lie undiscovered in Luz to this day imo.

Quite possible... But their is no proof of death
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 08, 2018, 09:47:30 AM
https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/08/14/25/madeleine-mccann-alive-held-captive-david-edgar-theory-no-evidence-former-editor-claims


There is "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive and living with her abductor in Portugal, according to a former leading UK newspaper editor.

Last week a retired UK detective claimed Maddie, who would now be 15 years old, was probably still somewhere in Portugal, and could even remain held captive in the small Algarve coastal town where she vanished more than 11 years ago.

Ex-cop David Edgar told British tabloid The Sun how he believed Maddie may not even be aware that she has been the subject of a massive worldwide search which began in May 2007.

But the recently retired editor of The Sunday Express, Martin Townsend, today described Edgar as being "wedded" to that theory since being hired by the McCanns in 2008.

Appearing on Channel Nine's TODAY, Townsend was asked if there was any evidence which backed up Edgar's belief. "No, none whatsoever," he replied.

"It is a theory that David Edgar, this detective, has actually expounded before. He is absolutely wedded to it," Townsend added.
Taken in 2009, private investigator Dave Edgar with McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell holding an e-fit of a 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' they believe may have information about missing Madeleine McCann. (Getty)
Taken in 2009, private investigator Dave Edgar with McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell holding an e-fit of a 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' they believe may have information about missing Madeleine McCann. (Getty) ()

Edgar, now aged 61, worked for Kate and Gerry McCann from 2008 until 2011, which is when London's Metropolitan Police launched Operation Grange to review and investigate Madeleine's mysterious disappearance.
Related Articles

    Madeleine McCann online store closes, as Operation Grange clock keeps ticking
    Madeleine McCann cops will 'request more money' before Operation Grange deadline expires
    Madeleine McCann funding milestone looms, 11 years after girl vanishes

Of all the British newspapers, it was The Express group, including Townsend's The Sunday Express, which took the most aggressive stance on Madeleine's case, and unproven theories about the possible involvement of her parents.

Mr and Mrs McCann have always steadfastly denied any knowledge of how their daughter vanished and disputed many of the stories and headlines which appeared in The Express newspaper group. In 2008 the couple from Rothley, Leicestershire successfully sued The Express group for £550,000.

Townsend told Channel Nine there was "some sort of logic" to Edgar's theory, which arose from a potential line of inquiry a pedophile gang stole Maddie.

"The window of opportunity to abduct [Madeleine] was so small that the operation to take her from that holiday apartment must have been very well thought through," Townsend said.
Madeleine Beth McCann vanished in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The case remains unsolved. (Supplied)
Madeleine Beth McCann vanished in May 2007 while on holiday with her family in Praia da Luz, Portugal. The case remains unsolved. (Supplied) (AAP)

The one-time Portuguese lead detective on the case, Goncalo Amaral, wrote an explosive book in 2008, hypothesising an unproven theory that Maddie died in apartment 5A and her abduction had been simulated.

Several months after Maddie vanished Mr and Mrs McCann were declared arguidos, a kind of formal suspect, but that legal status was lifted when the case was shelved in 2008.

Townsend said Mr and Mrs McCann have come under "tremendous pressure" and the search for Madeleine had taken an enormous toll on the pair.

"They are still absolutely committed to finding their daughter," Townsend said.

"They have never given up hope … both parents think she is in Portugal somewhere, and hopefully still alive."

Operation Grange has cost British taxpayers more than $20 million.

FOLLOW: Mark Saunokonoko on Twitter

© Nine Digital Pty Ltd 2018


Another inaccurate article... The McCanns don't think Maddie is, alive... They think there is a chance she may be alive... And they are ofcourse correct
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 10:01:00 AM
Quite possible... But their is no proof of death


In my opinion that says it all......

judging by the public reaction .... I believe that is there thought to...

snip
Appearing on Channel Nine's TODAY, Townsend was asked if there was any evidence which backed up Edgar's belief. "No, none whatsoever," he replied.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 08, 2018, 10:01:53 AM
Another inaccurate article... The McCanns don't think Maddie is, alive... They think there is a chance she may be alive... And they are ofcourse correct
And they are Australian dollars too.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 08, 2018, 10:25:18 AM
And they are Australian dollars too.

It's over $22 million Aussie dollars in actualment.  It's so very sad though that Maddie has become so well known all over the planet for all the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
I rather think she is living in another country.

So do I.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 08, 2018, 10:41:48 AM
I can understand the parents of a missing child clinging to the hope that she's still alive somewhere out there. I can't understand an ex policeman encouraging that belief when he seems to have no evidence to support what he says. It's very unprofessional in my opinion. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: carlymichelle on October 08, 2018, 10:42:47 AM
It's over $22 million Aussie dollars in actualment.  It's so very sad though that Maddie has become so well known all over the planet for all the wrong reasons.

mark is the only journalist in  australia   who   doesnt believe  the mcanns he  cant stand them
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 10:46:41 AM
I think Operation Grange has surveillance of Madeleine McCann on the ground in a foreign country.  The bills for which would be submitted and paid retrospectively.

A minor cannot be snatched from the streets of a foreign country, certainly not without a chain of evidence, which would be very difficult to obtain.

It could well be a different story once Madeleine is 16.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 08, 2018, 10:49:30 AM
I can understand the parents of a missing child clinging to the hope that she's still alive somewhere out there. I can't understand an ex policeman encouraging that belief when he seems to have no evidence to support what he says. It's very unprofessional in my opinion.

And cruel.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 10:50:20 AM
mark is the only journalist in  australia   who   doesnt believe  the mcanns he  cant stand them

What about the other Australian Journalists?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 08, 2018, 10:50:48 AM
So do I.
Can you let us know if there was much interest in this case in France when Madeleine disappeared.  Was it big news?

And what is the situation now? Is there currently much interest in France?

Heri told me once that the Spanish no longer had an appetite for it, that they were bored of the case.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 11:03:20 AM
Can you let us know if there was much interest in this case in France when Madeleine disappeared.  Was it big news?

And what is the situation now? Is there currently much interest in France?

Heri told me once that the Spanish no longer had an appetite for it, that they were bored of the case.

I honestly can't say about France.  There was some suggestion that Madeleine could have been moved to France which wouldn't have been all that difficult.  And there are large areas of land wherein no one would have noticed a child appearing from nowhere.  Also crossing the border would have been easy.

I drove down to Portugal and back several times and never got stopped anywhere at any border.

However, my own interest in The Case supersede anything in The Press, although I did look out for a child who could have been Madeleine.  I never saw one, but then I didn't expect to.  Madeleine would have remained hidden.

But there are some articles translated from the French into English.  Just don't ask me to find them.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 08, 2018, 11:51:25 AM
And cruel.

It all depends on Mr Edgar's motivation and the targeted audience would you not say?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 08, 2018, 11:55:06 AM
So do I.
Wishful thinking  when there’s no evidence of an abduction , although could  you mean by other means ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 11:59:15 AM
Can you let us know if there was much interest in this case in France when Madeleine disappeared.  Was it big news?

And what is the situation now? Is there currently much interest in France?

Heri told me once that the Spanish no longer had an appetite for it, that they were bored of the case.


I think that goes for most countries.....

although I believe .... it's not what happened to maddie they are bored with ...its the mccs....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 08, 2018, 12:02:58 PM
I think Operation Grange has surveillance of Madeleine McCann on the ground in a foreign country.  The bills for which would be submitted and paid retrospectively.

A minor cannot be snatched from the streets of a foreign country, certainly not without a chain of evidence, which would be very difficult to obtain.

It could well be a different story once Madeleine is 16.
Im astounded that you  think this . Hopefully you mean as part of another family but then she would have to remain hidden or heavily disguised not to mention if it’s not an English speaking country , kept quiet .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: carlymichelle on October 08, 2018, 12:03:36 PM

I think that goes for most countries.....

although I believe .... it's not what happened to maddie they are bored with ...its the mccs....

our australian media  recyles  what the  uk press put out so we get the mcann hysteria articles too but mark  goes  above that stuff  we  are lucky here in australia  to have  him
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 12:07:30 PM
Wishful thinking  when there’s no evidence of an abduction , although could  you mean by other means ?

No.  I think Madeleine was abducted.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 12:09:52 PM
Im astounded that you  think this . Hopefully you mean as part of another family but then she would have to remain hidden or heavily disguised not to mention if it’s not an English speaking country , kept quiet .

Madeleine will have changed quite a lot, and learned another language by now.  I am astounded by the fact that you can't see this.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 12:11:10 PM
our australian media  recyles  what the  uk press put out so we get the mcann hysteria articles too but mark  goes  above that stuff  we  are lucky here in australia  to have  him

Please feel free to keep him.  Other journalists obviously don't agree with him.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 08, 2018, 12:17:17 PM
 &%%6nj
Madeleine will have changed quite a lot, and learned another language by now.  I am astounded by the fact that you can't see this.
I wasn’t talking about now  ,I think you know that tho . I was talking about days , weeks and months after as you claim she was taken .  I think  about all the obstacles you appear to have skimmed over .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: carlymichelle on October 08, 2018, 12:22:03 PM
&%%6nj I wasn’t talking about now  ,I think you know that tho . I was talking about days , weeks and months after as you claim she was taken .  I think  about all the obstacles you appear to have skimmed over .


im  pleased that our australian journalist tells the truth about the mcann case he doesnt  hold back   xxx
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 12:22:57 PM
our australian media  recyles  what the  uk press put out so we get the mcann hysteria articles too but mark  goes  above that stuff  we  are lucky here in australia  to have  him


At least he speaks sense ....more than they do here....

whats the betting ....he will know all the background to this...

 a former leading UK newspaper editor......

will know stuff over the years ....he was not allowed to print....in my opinion.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 12:23:23 PM
&%%6nj I wasn’t talking about now  ,I think you know that tho . I was talking about days , weeks and months after as you claim she was taken .  I think  about all the obstacles you appear to have skimmed over .

No, I haven't skimmed over anything.  It wouldn't be difficult to keep a child out of view for a year.  Children change rapidly and learn a new language easily.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 12:24:56 PM
Please feel free to keep him.  Other journalists obviously don't agree with him.



Probably because at the moment they are not allowed..........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 12:26:24 PM


Probably because at the moment they are not allowed..........

He is but they aren't.  In Australia I mean.  How does that work?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 12:32:26 PM
He is but they aren't.  In Australia I mean.  How does that work?


Probably because he is an ex......
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 08, 2018, 12:46:18 PM
It all depends on Mr Edgar's motivation and the targeted audience would you not say?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 08, 2018, 04:10:01 PM
I wonder if Dave Edgar is still employed by Madeleine's fund.  Because of that I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

I wonder if this article will now be shared by the UK media.   Anyone want a bet?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 04:39:28 PM

Probably because he is an ex......

An Ex What?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 08, 2018, 05:07:27 PM
if you look at what Edgar actually said....

Last week a retired UK detective claimed Maddie, who would now be 15 years old, was probably still somewhere in Portugal, and could even remain held captive in the small Algarve coastal town where she vanished more than 11 years ago.

Whats wring with it....Maddie probably wasnt taken out of portugal......and could even still be alive. Far more likely than she died in an accident covered up by her parents...imo
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 08, 2018, 05:10:56 PM
Martin Townsend seems to have a bit of a history when it comes to playing a bit part in getting things totally wrong as far as Madeleine and her parents are concerned.

How it is possible to headline a non story of a marital split from a father going back to work while his wife stays at home? ... seems Martin is your man.

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that he and Mark Saunokonoko appear to have 'found' each other ... in my opinion neither baulks at a "cynical attempt to attract readers".


Disgrace of Sunday Express headline
Roy Greenslade

Sun 20 Jan 2008

Of all the nasty headlines that the Daily and Sunday Express have published about the Madeleine McCann mystery, none is quite as nasty - and blatantly inaccurate - at the one it ran on its front page today: McCANNS SPLIT BY AGONY OF MADDY.

There is nothing in the story to justify this disgraceful headline. The only split it mentions is that Kate McCann stays at home while her husband, Gerry, goes to work. Everything else in the article is speculation based on quotes from anonymous friends who say that the couple are continuing to go through agony.

Yet this is what the Sunday Express editor, Martin Townsend , has the bare-faced cheek to say in his column today: "At every level of our society, and in every area of our lives, fair play and common sense seem to have evaporated in the past decade."

He attributes those failings to "Labour rule" and accuses the prime minister of "spectacular, breathtaking hypocrisy."

Well, Martin, it takes one to know one. That headline is a cynical attempt to attract readers. It is, according to your own story, without foundation. I just hope the Press Complaints Commission decide that enough is enough on this matter and decide to take it up. For once, it might be justified to entertain a third party complaint. And here it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2008/jan/20/disgraceofsundayexpresshea
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 05:13:41 PM
And cruel.
As cruel as being an ex-policeman wedded to the idea that Madeleine is dead?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 05:15:39 PM

im  pleased that our australian journalist tells the truth about the mcann case he doesnt  hold back   xxx
But you’ve just told us he “can’t stand” the McCanns - is he letting his emotions getting in the way of objective reporting?  Sounds like it to me!
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 05:23:00 PM
An Ex What?


Didn't you read the article.....an ex Editor of the Express.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 05:27:19 PM

Didn't you read the article.....an ex Editor of the Express.....

What has that got to do with anything?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 05:31:28 PM
But you’ve just told us he “can’t stand” the McCanns - is he letting his emotions getting in the way of objective reporting?  Sounds like it to me!


Don't worry about it ....it didn't worry him or else he wouldn't have written it....

Seems to me he believed what he wrote.....I don't think the mccs sued him either ...did they.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 05:49:35 PM

Don't worry about it ....it didn't worry him or else he wouldn't have written it....

Seems to me he believed what he wrote.....I don't think the mccs sued him either ...did they.....
I’m not remotely worried, why in earth would I be worried about what a two-bit journo on the other side of the world has to say about anything?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 06:21:56 PM
I’m not remotely worried, why in earth would I be worried about what a two-bit journo on the other side of the world has to say about anything?

You would say that wouldn't you lol.....

because he doesn't believe maddie is alive...he is only saying what he thinks....

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 08, 2018, 06:23:47 PM
What has that got to do with anything?

Think we have our wires crossed.....

haven't time to go back and work it out.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 08, 2018, 06:25:51 PM
As cruel as being an ex-policeman wedded to the idea that Madeleine is dead?

It would appear OG think so too or why bring the dogs in ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 08, 2018, 06:27:08 PM
You would say that wouldn't you lol.....

because he doesn't believe maddie is alive...he is only saying what he thinks....



I’m not sure why. VS himself has said he thinks Madeleine is dead.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 08, 2018, 06:30:33 PM

I will be Deleting In Full any comments containing Goading or Insults.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 07:07:42 PM
It would appear OG think so too or why bring the dogs in ?
Do you understand the difference between “wedded to an idea” and “investigating all possibilities “?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 07:17:05 PM
I’m not sure why. VS himself has said he thinks Madeleine is dead.
What I think or you think or some bloke on the Sunday Express or even Dave Edgar thinks is immaterial to whether or not Madeleine is alive or not, that said writing her off as dead is less helpful than holding on to the possibility (however remote) that she may be alive.  Ben Needham’s family were convinced he was still alive, did they or those looking for him get it in the neck for holding on to that possibility?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 08, 2018, 09:05:14 PM
What I think or you think or some bloke on the Sunday Express or even Dave Edgar thinks is immaterial to whether or not Madeleine is alive or not, that said writing her off as dead is less helpful than holding on to the possibility (however remote) that she may be alive.  Ben Needham’s family were convinced he was still alive, did they or those looking for him get it in the neck for holding on to that possibility?

How is it helpful to suggest, without any evidence, that Madeleine's alive? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 08, 2018, 09:09:22 PM
Who would deny the right of the parents of a missing child to hope for the best as far as their child is concerned ... and who would be happier promoting that a missing child was dead rather than keeping an open mind and hoping that the investigation into her disappearance has a positive conclusion?

In my opinion if quoted correctly, Martin Townsend may disagree with David Edgar's assessment of the situation regarding Madeleine while seeing the logic in what had been a definite line if inquiry and showing a great deal of respect for Kate and Gerry

What a shame only the negativity made the headline.

Snip
Townsend told Channel Nine there was "some sort of logic" to Edgar's theory, which arose from a potential line of inquiry a paedophile gang stole Maddie.

"The window of opportunity to abduct [Madeleine] was so small that the operation to take her from that holiday apartment must have been very well thought through," Townsend said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Townsend said Mr and Mrs McCann have come under "tremendous pressure" and the search for Madeleine had taken an enormous toll on the pair.

"They are still absolutely committed to finding their daughter," Townsend said.

"They have never given up hope … both parents think she is in Portugal somewhere, and hopefully still alive."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg493819#msg493819
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 08, 2018, 09:24:14 PM
Who would deny the right of the parents of a missing child to hope for the best as far as their child is concerned ... and who would be happier promoting that a missing child was dead rather than keeping an open mind and hoping that the investigation into her disappearance has a positive conclusion?

In my opinion if quoted correctly, Martin Townsend may disagree with David Edgar's assessment of the situation regarding Madeleine while seeing the logic in what had been a definite line if inquiry and showing a great deal of respect for Kate and Gerry

What a shame only the negativity made the headline.

Snip
Townsend told Channel Nine there was "some sort of logic" to Edgar's theory, which arose from a potential line of inquiry a paedophile gang stole Maddie.

"The window of opportunity to abduct [Madeleine] was so small that the operation to take her from that holiday apartment must have been very well thought through," Townsend said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Townsend said Mr and Mrs McCann have come under "tremendous pressure" and the search for Madeleine had taken an enormous toll on the pair.

"They are still absolutely committed to finding their daughter," Townsend said.

"They have never given up hope … both parents think she is in Portugal somewhere, and hopefully still alive."

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg493819#msg493819

I imagine it's normal for parents to keep hoping. What isn't is for so-called professional people to encourage that hope.

I wonder when the McCanns decided Madeleine was still in Portugal? In the beginning they emphasised the need to close Portugal's borders, pointed out the proximity of Morocco and asked people in the UK to look for her. What changed>
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 09:48:32 PM
How is it helpful to suggest, without any evidence, that Madeleine's alive?
Because it keeps the possibility on the table, that there is a living child in need of rescue.  If Madeleine actually IS alive don’t you think that’s helpful?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 08, 2018, 09:52:46 PM
I imagine it's normal for parents to keep hoping. What isn't is for so-called professional people to encourage that hope.

I wonder when the McCanns decided Madeleine was still in Portugal? In the beginning they emphasised the need to close Portugal's borders, pointed out the proximity of Morocco and asked people in the UK to look for her. What changed>
Are you saying it’s abnormal for professional people to keep the possibility that a missing person is still alive, in the absence of evidence to the contrary?  Why bother with missing people appeals at all then, if they’re all probably dead anyway?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 08, 2018, 10:04:08 PM
What I think or you think or some bloke on the Sunday Express or even Dave Edgar thinks is immaterial to whether or not Madeleine is alive or not, that said writing her off as dead is less helpful than holding on to the possibility (however remote) that she may be alive.  Ben Needham’s family were convinced he was still alive, did they or those looking for him get it in the neck for holding on to that possibility?

IMO it is an occasion where most people’s views are equally valid as there is little hard evidence one way or the other.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 08, 2018, 11:40:21 PM

In my opinion that says it all......

judging by the public reaction .... I believe that is there thought to...

snip
Appearing on Channel Nine's TODAY, Townsend was asked if there was any evidence which backed up Edgar's belief. "No, none whatsoever," he replied.
And WHO is Townsend?   Just a retired newspaper editor.

Does he know what SY know?



However I tend to agree with him about Dave Edgar. 
I find him a very sincere man, but rather unimaginative, as far as I am aware.  I wonder if possibly having set his mind to the fact that Madeleine is still in the Luz area, he is finding it difficult to take other approaches to the search ?

All in my honest opinion and only based upon what I have seen of him.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 07:16:57 AM
Because it keeps the possibility on the table, that there is a living child in need of rescue.  If Madeleine actually IS alive don’t you think that’s helpful?

If keeps it in the media, but who believes what the media say? As for Edgar, he had his chance to be taken seriously and blew it with his Victoria Beckham debacle.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 07:21:20 AM
Are you saying it’s abnormal for professional people to keep the possibility that a missing person is still alive, in the absence of evidence to the contrary?  Why bother with missing people appeals at all then, if they’re all probably dead anyway?

It's one thing to allow for a possibility and another to broadcast unfounded beliefs about locations.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 09, 2018, 08:13:41 AM
It's one thing to allow for a possibility and another to broadcast unfounded beliefs about locations.
Who did that?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 09, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
If keeps it in the media, but who believes what the media say? As for Edgar, he had his chance to be taken seriously and blew it with his Victoria Beckham debacle.
I wasn’t talking about the media, I was referring to the investigation.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 09, 2018, 08:22:32 AM
It’s interesting that all those who fervently support Amaral’s right to an opinion publicly on what happened to Madeleine also repeatedly sneer and say “it’s not normal” for another ex-cop to share his opinion, simply because he doesn’t think the parents are involved.  Double standards, what?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 08:26:28 AM
I wasn’t talking about the media, I was referring to the investigation.

Edgar isn't investigating, is he? He's speaking to the media about his beliefs.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 08:32:03 AM
It’s interesting that all those who fervently support Amaral’s right to an opinion publicly on what happened to Madeleine also repeatedly sneer and say “it’s not normal” for another ex-cop to share his opinion, simply because he doesn’t think the parents are involved.  Double standards, what?

There's a huge difference between an opinion based on evidence and a belief based on no evidence.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 08:46:24 AM
There's a huge difference between an opinion based on evidence and a belief based on no evidence.

All the evidence that was used to make the McCann's arguidos was not confirmed.... Amarals claims were not based on evidence.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 09:38:58 AM
All the evidence that was used to make the McCann's arguidos was not confirmed.... Amarals claims were not based on evidence.

Evidence is evidence, whether it's confirmed or not.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 10:19:46 AM
Evidence is evidence, whether it's confirmed or not.

If it's not confirmed it is not evidence... Evidence is something that supports a hypothesis... If the evidence is not confirmed it cannot support the hypothesis
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 09, 2018, 10:50:21 AM
If it's not confirmed it is not evidence... Evidence is something that supports a hypothesis... If the evidence is not confirmed it cannot support the hypothesis

So circumstantial evidence isn’t evidence?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 10:51:04 AM
So circumstantial evidence isn’t evidence?

If it supports, the hypothesis... It's evidence
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 09, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
If it supports, the hypothesis... It's evidence

So anything that supports the hypothesis that she is dead is evidence.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 11:01:25 AM
If it's not confirmed it is not evidence... Evidence is something that supports a hypothesis... If the evidence is not confirmed it cannot support the hypothesis

Circumstantial evidence can support a hypothesis. What it can't do is exclude other hypotheses. It is Amaral's opinion that the open window and shutters supported the hypothesis of a staged abduction. Others hold the opinion that an open window and shutters support the hypothesis that Madeleine was abducted. Edgar doesn't seem to have any evidence at all to support his hypothesis.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 11:02:39 AM
So anything that supports the hypothesis that she is dead is evidence.

Of course.... So the fact she hasn't been seen for 11 years, is, evidence of death... But not proof
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 11:06:48 AM
Circumstantial evidence can support a hypothesis. What it can't do is exclude other hypotheses. It is Amaral's opinion that the open window and shutters supported the hypothesis of a staged abduction. Others hold the opinion that an open window and shutters support the hypothesis that Madeleine was abducted. Edgar doesn't seem to have any evidence at all to support his hypothesis.

So amarals, evidence against the parents is the open window..... Are you serious

So if you accept amaral has evidence to support his theory you have to accept there is evidence of abduction
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 11:21:58 AM
So amarals, evidence against the parents is the open window..... Are you serious

So if you accept amaral has evidence to support his theory you have to accept there is evidence of abduction

Are you? An example was provided, not a body of evidence.

In my opinion there is more evidence suggesting a death than there is suggesting an abduction.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Are you? An example was provided, not a body of evidence.

In my opinion there is more evidence suggesting a death than there is suggesting an abduction.

Not death in the apartment... There is no evidence of death in the apartment... At least you now, accept there is, evidence of abduction
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 11:51:39 AM
Not death in the apartment... There is no evidence of death in the apartment... At least you now, accept there is, evidence of abduction

There is evidence of death in the apartment. Some have tried to suggest that the open window and shutters are evidence suggesting an abduction. I don't agree.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 11:59:18 AM
There is evidence of death in the apartment. Some have tried to suggest that the open window and shutters are evidence suggesting an abduction. I don't agree.

So you claim the open window is evidence of staging but not abduction... That's a contradiction...
No evidence of death in the, appartment... Can you provide it
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:04:30 PM
And WHO is Townsend?   Just a retired newspaper editor.

Does he know what SY know?



However I tend to agree with him about Dave Edgar. 
I find him a very sincere man, but rather unimaginative, as far as I am aware.  I wonder if possibly having set his mind to the fact that Madeleine is still in the Luz area, he is finding it difficult to take other approaches to the search ?

All in my honest opinion and only based upon what I have seen of him.


And WHO is Townsend?   Just a retired newspaper editor.


Who I would think has friends in high places ...that in my opinion would put him in the know....let us.

lets face it though ...he is not the only one who thinks maddie is dead......
 
I think the larger majority of the public ....believe that also....and possibly SY....

You dont know either what SY know .....in my opinion not a lot....

what do you really expect....they've been over three years sat mostly at a desk...3/4 of them...tut tut

seems the funding barely covered there wages..... never mind anything else....

it so makes you wonder....what are they playing at ....what the hell is going on.....

becaue it certainly isnt looking for maddie....what this is all supposed to be about

my post is in my opinion.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 12:25:43 PM
So you claim the open window is evidence of staging but not abduction... That's a contradiction...
No evidence of death in the, appartment... Can you provide it

I think I said Amaral held that view. Obviously the two opinions are contradictory. If you want to see evidence pointing to death in the apartment I recommend reading the PJ Files.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 12:27:29 PM

And WHO is Townsend?   Just a retired newspaper editor.


Who I would think has friends in high places ...that in my opinion would put him in the know....let us.

lets face it though ...he is not the only one who thinks maddie is dead......
 
I think the larger majority of the public ....believe that also....and possibly SY....

You dont know either what SY know .....in my opinion not a lot....

what do you really expect....they've been over three years sat mostly at a desk...3/4 of them...tut tut

seems the funding barely covered there wages..... never mind anything else....

it so makes you wonder....what are they playing at ....what the hell is going on.....

becaue it certainly isnt looking for maddie....what this is all supposed to be about

my post is in my opinion.....

IMO, SY are using the intelligent approach to searching.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:32:58 PM
IMO, SY are using the intelligent approach to searching.


and the intelligent approach is.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
I think I said Amaral held that view. Obviously the two opinions are contradictory. If you want to see evidence pointing to death in the apartment I recommend reading the PJ Files.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

Look in http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/.

A proper cite is needed not something that requires probably a days reading to find .... and we need the author of the cite too.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 12:36:28 PM

and the intelligent approach is.....

It certainly does not involve shovels and looking in the same places for the 4th or 5th time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:38:17 PM
It certainly does not involve shovels  and looking in the same places for the 4th or 5th time.

Oh lol.........isnt that just what SY did.......
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 12:41:59 PM
SY are using the intelligent approach to searching.

Involving sitting at a desk hoping someone else does it? That's been a popular method in this case, hasn't it?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 12:46:09 PM
Oh lol.........isnt that just what SY did.......

Yep they have done that, in order to rule out disinformation, rumours IMO.

No reason to keep doing it.  They have ruled incorrect "info" out now



After the initial spadework, it is time that anything found be collated and brains used rather than brawn.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:48:41 PM
Yep they have done that, in order to rule out disinformation, rumours IMO.

No reason to keep doing it.  They have ruled incorrect "info" out now



After the initial spadework, it is time that anything found be collated and brains used rather than brawn.


that is just guesswork on your part......
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 12:49:51 PM
I think I said Amaral held that view. Obviously the two opinions are contradictory. If you want to see evidence pointing to death in the apartment I recommend reading the PJ Files.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

There is no evidence of death in the apartment... Quoting the whole file is not a cite
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 12:52:54 PM
Involving sitting at a desk hoping someone else does it? That's been a popular method in this case, hasn't it?

Sitting at a desk ... hoping someone else will do it ?   

Are you insulting them by implication ?


I dont believe any digging is necessary.  I believe that Madeleine is alive and well, but where ?
It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She could be anywhere in the world.  Intelligence is what they need...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:55:10 PM
There is no evidence of death in the apartment... Quoting the whole file us not a cite

At this moment in time ....the mccs have not been cleared of any involvement...

to what happened to maddie...

That isn't evidence though....its a fact....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 12:57:04 PM
At this moment in time ....the mccs have not been cleared of any involvement...

to what happened to maddie...

That isn't evidence though....its a fact....

Neither have the Needhams.... It's a nonsense statement..
The PJ have, said there is no, evidence, against them... That puts, amaraks claims into perspective
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 12:57:40 PM
Sitting at a desk ... hoping someone else will do it ?   

Are you insulting them by implication ?


I dont believe any digging is necessary.  I believe that Madeleine is alive and well, but where ?
It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She could be anywhere in the world.  Intelligence is what they need...


You can believe that..... it's your right....

just don't knock them that dont....it is also there right.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 01:00:13 PM
Neither have the Needhams.... It's a nonsense statement..
The PJ have, said there is no, evidence, against them... That puts, amaraks claims into perspective


Awww it not about the Needhams though is it ....

they didn't have 12 million at there disposal either did they.....

plus a massive amount in a fund ....if they had.... maybe that case could have been solved....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 09, 2018, 01:05:06 PM

You can believe that..... it's your right....

just don't knock them that dont....it is also there right.....
So long as they dont spread disinformation and are not libellous or cruel, in modeeration that's OK by me.

But expect responses.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 09, 2018, 01:14:21 PM
Sitting at a desk ... hoping someone else will do it ?   

Are you insulting them by implication ?


I dont believe any digging is necessary.  I believe that Madeleine is alive and well, but where ?
It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She could be anywhere in the world.  Intelligence is what they need...
Alive ...and well?
Not with ,as the McCanns more than implied was taken by a paedophile ? In which case being alive and well wouldn’t fit in with your   belief  at all .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 01:14:47 PM
So long as they dont spread disinformation and are not libellous or cruel, in modeeration that's OK by me.

But expect responses.

But expect responses.


think thats how it works for us all............
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 01:18:38 PM

Awww it not about the Needhams though is it ....

they didn't have 12 million at there disposal either did they.....

plus a massive amount in a fund ....if they had.... maybe that case could have been solved....
But they haven't been cleared
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 09, 2018, 01:21:27 PM
Alive ...and well?
Not with ,as the McCanns more than implied was taken by a paedophile ? In which case being alive and well wouldn’t fit in with your   belief  at all .

I'm afraid you've forgotten the essential item - fantasy spectacles. makes everything right.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 01:21:35 PM
But they haven't been cleared


Different case....

Different circumstances....

and off topic.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 01:24:15 PM
Hahahah ..... What a joke !

Look in http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/.

 A proper cite is needed not something that requires probably a days reading to find .... and we need the author of the cite too.

I was asked to provide the evidence which led the PJ to suspect a death in 5A. That's not possible  in a discussion so I pointed out where the evidence can be found. A summary is here;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 01:32:04 PM
Easy to find as well...

not only is there nothing to say maddie was abducted....

there is nothing to say she is alive as well as........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
I was asked to provide the evidence which led the PJ to suspect a death in 5A. That's not possible  in a discussion so I pointed out where the evidence can be found. A summary is here;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm
The discredited interim report based upon a misunderstanding  of the evidence... The PJ now, say no evidence against the parents
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 01:43:51 PM
Sitting at a desk ... hoping someone else will do it ?   

Are you insulting them by implication ?


I dont believe any digging is necessary.  I believe that Madeleine is alive and well, but where ?
It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She could be anywhere in the world.  Intelligence is what they need...

Well they've tried digging, they've tried interrogation and they've tried appealing. They seem to have failed to consider the possibility that the needle was never in the haystack to begin with.

If Edgar's theory id correct she certainly won't be well, even if she lives.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 01:45:47 PM
I was asked to provide the evidence which led the PJ to suspect a death in 5A. That's not possible  in a discussion so I pointed out where the evidence can be found. A summary is here;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm

You are, quoting a report which says the success rate of the dogs is 100%
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Admin on October 09, 2018, 01:48:46 PM
SY are using the intelligent approach to searching .... but seems some on here do not understaqnd that.

Scotland Yard have failed to reveal anything of significance in this case despite throwing £'millions at it but in reality that was to be expected given their very limited brief.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 09, 2018, 01:51:29 PM
Yup, £11 million and still not enough to provide a convincing cover of whitewash.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 01:54:35 PM
Scotland Yard have failed to reveal anything of significance in this case despite throwing £'millions at it but in reality that was to be expected given their very limited brief.


and above all in my opinion ....the mccs will still not be cleared...

after the millions that have been spent....or maddie alive........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 09, 2018, 01:57:31 PM

and above all in my opinion ....the mccs will still not be cleared...

after the millions that have been spent....or maddie alive........

There was never any chance of that.
The best they can hope for is to avoid any charges.
All in my own opinion.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
Scotland Yard have failed to reveal anything of significance in this case despite throwing £'millions at it but in reality that was to be expected given their very limited brief.

Their brief was to investigate the abduction of Maddie... If during the investigation the evidence pointed away from abduction I feel sure they would have followed it.
As the, PJ have said there is no evidence  against the parents then IMO it looks as though abduction is, still the most likely reason for the disappearance.  I don't expect them to give a statement until their investigations are concluded so to me it looks, as though they are not
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 02:08:34 PM
There is evidence of death in the apartment. Some have tried to suggest that the open window and shutters are evidence suggesting an abduction. I don't agree.

Your post.... Claiming there is evidence of death in the apartment...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 09, 2018, 02:12:25 PM
Easy to find as well...

not only is there nothing to say maddie was abducted....

there is nothing to say she is alive as well ....
If in this fairytale she was placed within a new family circle she would have been very traumatised to have found herself in a situation away from the parents,siblings and extended family and would question why ,surely ?

How anyone gets over something like that I wouldn’t know although my late mother was “given away  “ when she was five for unknown to her reasons up to being in late middle age when she was given the letter written by her mother to a relative  explaining that she was a difficult child  .In her case it was an aunt she was placed with but she never saw her mother again.
She questioned why all of her life ,and cried about it , so if supporters think this fairytale is going to have a happy ending  think again .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 09, 2018, 02:32:31 PM
Scotland Yard have failed to reveal anything of significance in this case despite throwing £'millions at it but in reality that was to be expected given their very limited brief.

One hand tied behind their back?  One could be forgiven for thinking that the powers that be don't really want this case solved given the repercussions.

Sadie appears to believe that Maddie is alive and well and living with new parents but has never provided a shred of evidence to support it. I won't even mention Morocco...oops
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
One hand tied behind their back?  One could be forgiven for thinking that the powers that be don't really want this case solved given the repercussions.

Sadie appears to believe that Maddie is alive and well and living with new parents but has never provided a shred of evidence to support it. I won't even mention Morocco...oops

Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 09, 2018, 02:55:11 PM
If in this fairytale she was placed within a new family circle she would have been very traumatised to have found herself in a situation away from the parents,siblings and extended family and would question why ,surely ?

How anyone gets over something like that I wouldn’t know although my late mother was “given away  “ when she was five for unknown to her reasons up to being in late middle age when she was given the letter written by her mother to a relative  explaining that she was a difficult child  .In her case it was an aunt she was placed with but she never saw her mother again.
She questioned why all of her life ,and cried about it , so if supporters think this fairytale is going to have a happy ending  think again .

I suppose Given away is a possibility - a sort of staged abduction by agreement. No wackier an idea than others we've seen.
Fraught with all sorts of potential difficulties however, as time passes and child grows to maturity.

If this were the case, it certainly hasn't panned out as anticipated.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 09, 2018, 03:55:24 PM
Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal

So their interviewing various people (some made aguidos) and their searching of the land around Praia Da Luz didn't happen then?   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 04:00:48 PM
So their interviewing various people (some made aguidos) and their searching of the land around Praia Da Luz didn't happen then?

Have they interviewed anyone... Or have they sat in on interviews with the PJ asking their questions for them... I can't see how anyone can deny their ability to investigate is severely limited ...every part is subject to an ilor... How much time have they simply had to sit and wait til the ilor is granted
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 09, 2018, 04:05:52 PM
Have they interviewed anyone... Or have they sat in on interviews with the PJ asking their questions for them... I can't see how anyone can deny their ability to investigate is severely limited ...every part is subject to an ilor... How much time have they simply had to sit and wait til the ilor is granted

I imagine the Portuguese would actually ask the questions as I am not aware of any Scotland Yard officers who speak Portuguese- are you?

They did chose the questions that were asked to those men who THEY chose to be arguidos

Sources say the police wanted further information from him about a call he allegedly had with Mr Rodrigues the day after Madeleine vanished.

Operation Grange officers are hoping that the detailed questioning will help them to build up a clearer picture of events before and after Madeleine’s disappearance.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case

So any Portuguese actions regarding these arguidos were at the instruction of Scotland Yard (regardless of delays caused by ILORs) so your statement below is incorrect:

"Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

Scotland Yard were/are able to investigate in Portugal.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 04:08:05 PM
I imagine the Portuguese would actually ask the questions as I am not aware of any Scotland Yard officers who speak Portuguese- are you?

They did chose the questions that were asked to those men who THEY chose to be arguidos

Sources say the police wanted further information from him about a call he allegedly had with Mr Rodrigues the day after Madeleine vanished.

Operation Grange officers are hoping that the detailed questioning will help them to build up a clearer picture of events before and after Madeleine’s disappearance.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case

So any Portuguese actions regarding these arguidos were at the instruction of Scotland Yard (regardless of delays caused by ILORs) so your statement below is incorrect:

"Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

Scotland Yard were/are able to investigate in Portugal.

It isn't incorrect at all... Everything has to be arranged through an ilor.... Anyone who does not realise SY face difficulties is not accepting reality... Imo... They cannot investigate freely
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 09, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
It isn't incorrect at all... Everything has to be arranged through an ilor.... Anyone who does not realise SY face difficulties is not accepting reality... Imo

Davel investigating in Portugal may be difficult and more long winded but not impossible as you say.

"Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

They can and are investigating in Portugal.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 09, 2018, 04:20:06 PM

in Britain, in the cases of missing people Rivers and Lakes are searched and Land is dug over, for the purpose of elimination.  This is standard practice.  Often nothing is found.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 09, 2018, 04:22:58 PM
Have they interviewed anyone... Or have they sat in on interviews with the PJ asking their questions for them... I can't see how anyone can deny their ability to investigate is severely limited ...every part is subject to an ilor... How much time have they simply had to sit and wait til the ilor is granted

Six months per ILOR is the suggested guide line CPS[not solely for Portugal].
All this has been done ad nauseam.
That's the system for you, it will not change simply because a few folk believe the McCanns are a special case.
It's also what you wind up with after political interference [David Cameron allowing himself to be shanghaied into overruling his Home Sec and head of MPS].

The original objective of O.G was:
"The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".
What ever they were they have not advanced the case much.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 09, 2018, 05:00:34 PM
I suppose Given away is a possibility - a sort of staged abduction by agreement. No wackier an idea than others we've seen.
Fraught with all sorts of potential difficulties however, as time passes and child grows to maturity.

If this were the case, it certainly hasn't panned out as anticipated.
Wasn’t it suggested in  PJ’s question  #41  that the parents had discussed handing Madeleine over to others ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 09, 2018, 05:01:49 PM
For SY to investigate the case how they did....is like reading a who done it

with the begining missing...and half the characters.....

it is never going to make sense....or be solved

same as SY investigating.... starting halfway through the case......

not even knowing if maddie was even alive.......

my post is in my opinion

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 09, 2018, 05:33:14 PM
Edgar isn't investigating, is he? He's speaking to the media about his beliefs.
Well if you can explain how his comments are unhelpful please do go ahead.  Please remember to quote him verbatim when pointing out the problems with what he has said.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 09, 2018, 05:34:20 PM
There's a huge difference between an opinion based on evidence and a belief based on no evidence.
But which is which? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 05:49:17 PM
Six months per ILOR is the suggested guide line CPS[not solely for Portugal].
All this has been done ad nauseam.
That's the system for you, it will not change simply because a few folk believe the McCanns are a special case.
It's also what you wind up with after political interference [David Cameron allowing himself to be shanghaied into overruling his Home Sec and head of MPS].

The original objective of O.G was:
"The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".
What ever they were they have not advanced the case much.

which supports my statement that SY are severely hampered because they cannot investigate in portugal...thank you
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 05:49:57 PM
Davel investigating in Portugal may be difficult and more long winded but not impossible as you say.

"Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

They can and are investigating in Portugal.

Try reading alice's post
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 09, 2018, 05:51:16 PM
Wasn’t it suggested in  PJ’s question  #41  that the parents had discussed handing Madeleine over to others ?

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this true.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 05:57:48 PM
Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal

I think they must have known that before they started.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 09, 2018, 05:59:28 PM
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this true.

It’s a strange thing to pluck out of the air if there is no truth to it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 09, 2018, 06:05:01 PM
It’s a strange thing to pluck out of the air if there is no truth to it.

Perhaps there is evidence  not in the public domain, that prompted the question.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 09, 2018, 06:07:50 PM
Try reading alice's post

Alice quoted this

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".


How do you carry out "investigative approaches" without investigating Davel?  Alice/s quote does not say this "Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:10:37 PM
I think they must have known that before they started.

I'm sure they did... I was responding to angelos post that that they were investigating with both their hands behind their back.... I pointed out that the biggest restriction is the one that limits their ability to investigate in portugal
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 09, 2018, 06:10:48 PM
which supports my statement that SY are severely hampered because they cannot investigate in portugal...thank you

Everyone knew that before O.G. started. They would have been civilians in Portugal with no powers so it is hardly an earth shattering revelation 11 years down the track is it now?
The scuttlebutt at the time among supporters was " just you wait, SY, a real police force, will go through it like a dose of salts" etc. It would seem that did not occur. Rather predictably it didn't happen and the blame is now being placed on the system.
We had much ado about 130 odd leads identified. What's the excuse over that seemingly having gone nowhere fast?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 09, 2018, 06:11:03 PM
IYO, don't forget  ?{)(**

It is so often what you don't say that matters.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:15:31 PM
Everyone knew that before O.G. started. They would have been civilians in Portugal with no powers so it is hardly an earth shattering revelation 11 years down the track is it now?
The scuttlebutt at the time among supporters was " just you wait, SY, a real police force, will go through it like a dose of salts" etc. It would seem that did not occur. Rather predictably it didn't happen and the blame is now being placed on the system.
We had much ado about 130 odd leads identified. What's the excuse over that seemingly having gone nowhere fast?

I was pointing this out to sunny.. Who seems to think SY can investigate in Portugal..
Perhaps  they hoped for a joint investigation and more help from the PJ
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:17:55 PM
Alice quoted this

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".


How do you carry out "investigative approaches" without investigating Davel?  Alice/s quote does not say this "Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"
Believe what you want... I think most others understand
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:20:52 PM
Alice quoted this

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".


How do you carry out "investigative approaches" without investigating Davel?  Alice/s quote does not say this "Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

Read the post again... SYs position was to detrmine any new investigative processes... And assist the Portuguese... It doesn't say carry out any investigative processes
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:30:40 PM
One hand tied behind their back?  One could be forgiven for thinking that the powers that be don't really want this case solved given the repercussions.

Sadie appears to believe that Maddie is alive and well and living with new parents but has never provided a shred of evidence to support it. I won't even mention Morocco...oops

Perhaps the powers that be... Portugal... Didn't want SY to solve it... Think of the repercussions
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 09, 2018, 06:35:33 PM
Perhaps the powers that be... Portugal... Didn't want SY to solve it... Think of the repercussions
You do come out with some corkers.   8((()*/
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 09, 2018, 06:37:41 PM
Alice quoted this

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".


How do you carry out "investigative approaches" without investigating Davel?  Alice/s quote does not say this "Their restriction has been they cannot investigate in Portugal"

17   What did the expression "we let her down" mean?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7542939.stm

In my opinion there are so many avenues and dead ends that would be understood as a matter of course and avoided by English investigators which clearly were misunderstood and misinterpreted by the initial Portuguese investigation.

It would have made questions such as the above unnecessary while cutting down somewhat on the innuendo which passed as information reported in the first instance by the Portuguese press to be picked up by MSM worldwide.

Usually I believe a prerequisite in finding evidence is to look for it in thee first place.

Is it possible for an investigation mired in preconceived and unshakeable ideas of of the death of the victim to mount an adequate search for the living, breathing victim of crime?
Perhaps the entrenched attitude to the death of the victim evidenced by those tasked with conducting the primary investigation goes a long way to explaining why they may have missed evidenced which did not tie in with their beliefs ... all to the detriment of justice and the missing child.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 09, 2018, 06:38:01 PM
I'm sure they did... I was responding to angelos post that that they were investigating with both their hands behind their back.... I pointed out that the biggest restriction is the one that limits their ability to investigate in portugal

If they couldn't foresee the problems they were going to be faced with then they're not quite as good as some think they are imo. Perhaps the F.B.I. should have helped too, as Gerry McCann suggested?  @)(++(*

He added that he would be "delighted" if FBI officers could also form part of the cold case team.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-scotland-yard-to-aid-179934



Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Faithlilly on October 09, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
If they couldn't foresee the problems they were going to be faced with then they're not quite as good as some think they are imo. Perhaps the F.B.I. should have helped too, as Gerry McCann suggested?  @)(++(*

He added that he would be "delighted" if FBI officers could also form part of the cold case team.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-scotland-yard-to-aid-179934

Just not the FBI cadaver dog team with Mr Grime  @)(++(*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 06:53:49 PM
You do come out with some corkers.   8((()*/

And it seems you have little reply to them... Would it not belittle the PJ if SY solved the case
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 09, 2018, 07:01:13 PM
In my opinion the hope that Scotland Yard went into full investigative mode while their hands were tied is as spurious as most of the other myths fabricated in Madeleine's case.

Were it so ... the time to 'cop out' would surely have been at the review stage by just saying ... "OK guys we've had a look, and nothing to report.  So back on the shelf with it!"

But they didn't do that did they?

They found a lot of fresh evidence requiring investigation.  They found a lot of persons of interest.  They found enough avenues of investigation to keep them occupied for years.

Neither does it seem they have come to the end of their work yet ... which in my opinion can bode nothing but good as far as the work they have been able to put in is concerned and as far as serving Madeleine McCann's interests are concerned.

Don't forget ... Madeleine is a missing person who was written off as dead by the investigators tasked with investigating her disappearance ... before her parents and family had time to grieve for her instead of celebrating with her at her fourth birthday.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 09, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
Thank you too.

Je vous en prie.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 09, 2018, 08:22:45 PM
I was pointing this out to sunny.. Who seems to think SY can investigate in Portugal..
Perhaps  they hoped for a joint investigation and more help from the PJ

You have signally failed to address any other points in the post.
Like supporters inisisting it was a JIT when clearly it wasn't.
There has been going through it like a dose of salts by SY.
Naff all from the 130+ leads which supporters took to read "130+ leads unidentified by the PJ" with the  consequent predictable tirades.
Then Mark Rowley clearly implied The MPS were content with the PJ's original investigation and did not propose to repeat it all just for sake of it and wasting some budget.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 09, 2018, 08:27:47 PM
You have signally failed to address any other points in the post.
Like supporters inisisting it was a JIT when clearly it wasn't.
There has been going through it like a dose of salts by SY.
Naff all from the 130+ leads which supporters took to read "130+ leads unidentified by the PJ" with the  consequent predictable tirades.
Then Mark Rowley clearly implied The MPS were content with the PJ's original investigation and did not propose to repeat it all just for sake of it and wasting some budget.
I havent failed anything...just sorted the wheat from the chaff...a much needed skill in this case
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 10, 2018, 01:24:13 AM
Scotland Yard have failed to reveal anything of significance in this case despite throwing £'millions at it but in reality that was to be expected given their very limited brief.
"reveal " being the operative word.

Thank God that with SY, we don't have a leaking investigation like Amarals   %56&. 

Seems that the Madeleine Mccann special investigation team up in Porto also know how to keep their mouths shut   8@??)(
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 10, 2018, 02:05:31 AM
One hand tied behind their back?  One could be forgiven for thinking that the powers that be don't really want this case solved given the repercussions.

Sadie appears to believe that Maddie is alive and well and living with new parents but has never provided a shred of evidence to support it. I won't even mention Morocco...oops

Yes sadie does think it likely that Madeleine is still alive.  At least she has strong reason to believe that Madeleine was alive and looking well in 2012, but in a foreign land.

-  sadie has a photo of a little girl who is the image of her Mum in the upper face and more like her dad in the lower face.
-  sadie has also noticed that her slim limbs are Healey, but her more rounded trunk is Mccann 
-  and her hair is the colour that both Kate and Gerry had as children  .... a kind of red hair
-  sadie also has seen a video that shows her moving, her energy levels, her high stepping gait ... and her mannerisms ... These are the image of the videos where we have seen Madeleine moving on various home videos
-  and she was leading a group ... so intelligent.


-  Now the most striking thing of all is that after sadie had reseached very deeply for four years she uncovered a particular man and a special spot in a very precise particular location.   sadie decided to see if she might spot Madeleine there. 
-  sadie suddenly spotted 'Madeleine' in exactly the researched spot ... and recorded the images.



Yep sadie does think that it is likely that Madeleine is still being kept alive and maybe within a family. 
-  The abductors /keepers will have forged a bond with her and would not want to kill her;
-  The abductors know that they could be caught and little doubt already have excuses in place. 

They know that punishment for just taking a child who has then been looked after would be limited, whilst if she had been killed, the punishment would be huge.   It is in their own interests to keep her alive and well IMO


I think that I am right.  Madeleine Mccann is still alive imo



All the above is in my opinion, but it is based upon extensive and detailed research and investigation.  And this research has produced an enormous almost complete jigsaw of facts that only has a very few pieces missing.   Very convincing.




Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 10, 2018, 02:19:19 AM
Six months per ILOR is the suggested guide line CPS[not solely for Portugal].
All this has been done ad nauseam.
That's the system for you, it will not change simply because a few folk believe the McCanns are a special case.
It's also what you wind up with after political interference [David Cameron allowing himself to be shanghaied into overruling his Home Sec and head of MPS].

The original objective of O.G was:
"The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter".
What ever they were they have not advanced the case much.

How do youi KNOW that?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 10, 2018, 02:28:41 AM
Everyone knew that before O.G. started. They would have been civilians in Portugal with no powers so it is hardly an earth shattering revelation 11 years down the track is it now?
The scuttlebutt at the time among supporters was " just you wait, SY, a real police force, will go through it like a dose of salts" etc. It would seem that did not occur. Rather predictably it didn't happen and the blame is now being placed on the system.
We had much ado about 130 odd leads identified. What's the excuse over that seemingly having gone nowhere fast?

"Seemingly" is the operative word.

SY have remained silent so you just do NOT KNOW, do you ?

I suggest that you, like the rest of us, wait and see.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 10, 2018, 07:35:39 AM
"Seemingly" is the operative word.

SY have remained silent so you just do NOT KNOW, do you ?

I suggest that you, like the rest of us, wait and see.

The McCanns were vocal in their criticism of the Portuguese Police right from the start of their investigation and throughout it.   Yet they seem so "grateful" to Scotland Yard, even after many years, for achieving exactly what??

We have had no criticism whatsover from the McCann side of Scotland Yard.

Also why do the McCanns never say they are grateful to the current PJ investigation?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 07:58:28 AM
The McCanns were vocal in their criticism of the Portuguese Police right from the start of their investigation and throughout it.   Yet they seem so "grateful" to Scotland Yard, even after many years, for achieving exactly what??

We have had no criticism whatsover from the McCann side of Scotland Yard.

Also why do the McCanns never say they are grateful to the current PJ investigation?
Perhaps because the current PJ investigation is just a sham?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 10, 2018, 08:57:10 AM
Perhaps because the current PJ investigation is just a sham?

I agree.... And if Grange has made no progress perhaps it's because the PJ didn't want it to
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 10, 2018, 09:06:04 AM
I havent failed anything...just sorted the wheat from the chaff...a much needed skill in this case


lol ....that's ok if you know what the wheat and the chaff is....

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 10, 2018, 10:12:06 AM
Perhaps because the current PJ investigation is just a sham?
Perhaps OG was just a sham?

I don't see such comments as adding anything to the debate.  Do you?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Perhaps OG was just a sham?

I don't see such comments as adding anything to the debate.  Do you?
If you don’t like my comments you can simply ignore them you know.  I think however it’s valid to question the current PJ investigation as much as it is to question Operation Grange.  You have been highly critical of the latter, but I don’t hear a peep out of you about the former, why is that?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 10, 2018, 10:33:07 AM
If you don’t like my comments you can simply ignore them you know.  I think however it’s valid to question the current PJ investigation as much as it is to question Operation Grange.  You have been highly critical of the latter, but I don’t hear a peep out of you about the former, why is that?


The mccs didn't cooperate with thePJ....

Then cleared off...had the case shelved ...so what do you really expect....

in my opinion ....it would be a different story for you if SY had treat mccs as suspects....

mind yous in my opinion ....there is still time to do that.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 10:41:51 AM

The mccs didn't cooperate with thePJ....

Then cleared off...had the case shelved ...so what do you really expect....

in my opinion ....it would be a different story for you if SY had treat mccs as suspects....

mind yous in my opinion ....there is still time to do that.....
I was referring to the CURRENT PJ investigation.  Have they reinterviewed the McCanns?  Did they ask to reinterview them and the McCanns refused?  Do you know?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 10, 2018, 10:45:34 AM
I was referring to the CURRENT PJ investigation.  Have they reinterviewed the McCanns?  Did they ask to reinterview them and the McCanns refused?  Do you know?


No....but at a guess....that didn't happen ...

in my opinion, of course, they would refuse ...... @)(++(*....at the thought of them cooperating with PJ....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 10, 2018, 12:35:22 PM
I agree.... And if Grange has made no progress perhaps it's because the PJ didn't want it to

You seem to be totally unaware of how the MLA/ILOR process works judging by this post and others.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 01:21:35 PM
You seem to be totally unaware of how the MLA/ILOR process works judging by this post and others.
Instead of constantly pointing out how ignorant supporters are why don’t you explain in plain simple English why we are wrong, without recourse to cryptic put-downs? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 10, 2018, 01:43:47 PM
You seem to be totally unaware of how the MLA/ILOR process works judging by this post and others.

It's very simple... Average  time 6 months
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 10, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
You seem to be totally unaware of how the MLA/ILOR process works judging by this post and others.
Given the number of ILORS debated thus far, I am confident Davel knows the ropes.

I think it is another clear example of supporter Portu-bashing.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 10, 2018, 02:02:32 PM
Instrad of constantly pointing out how ignorant supporters are why don’t you explain in plain simple English why we are wrong, without recourse to cryptic put-downs?

Because I'm basically right
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 10, 2018, 02:30:09 PM
The McCanns were vocal in their criticism of the Portuguese Police right from the start of their investigation and throughout it.   Yet they seem so "grateful" to Scotland Yard, even after many years, for achieving exactly what??

We have had no criticism whatsover from the McCann side of Scotland Yard.

Also why do the McCanns never say they are grateful to the current PJ investigation?

Were they now ... one can only wonder why?

It seems sensible to me that Madeleine's parents might want to see the progress of her case by getting as much information out there and if they organised a bit of so called "political interference" to achieve helping their daughter ... more power to their elbow, I say!

Just as their use of lawyers to the same end ... "political interference" ~ "waste of fund money on their legal bills" ... of progressing Madeleine's case to its utmost has attracted the same outrage.

It also puts a different light on the reasons behind why there was no reconstruction early days ... how well would it have gone down for the Jane/Gerry and Jez sequence when the principle player was seen walking at the top of the street carrying a pyjama clad little girl?

The mystery to me is that why a couple firm in the belief their daughter is still alive, are excoriated for their unceasing and tireless efforts to find her. 

To me that is one of the more enduring mysteries of Madeleine's disappearance and proof of the power of propaganda.



Madeleine: Brown urged police to give more details
Chancellor acts after parents voice their concern at the lack of disclosure by Portuguese detectives

Brendan de Beer in Praia da Luz

Sun 27 May 2007

Gordon Brown has personally intervened in the search for missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann after her parents became frustrated by the lack of progress in the police investigation.

After a series of telephone conversations with Madeleine's father, Gerry McCann in recent days, the Chancellor requested assistance from the Foreign Office and the Home Office. He asked that pressure be brought to bear on the Portuguese authorities to allow more information about the inquiry to be made public.

Gerry and his wife, Kate, have been desperate for a description of a man seen carrying what appears to have been a child on 3 May to be made public, but Portuguese police refused for three weeks because of the country's laws, which forbid the details of an investigation being released.

The Observer understands that Brown gave the McCanns an assurance he would do 'anything he can' to help. The British embassy duly applied pressure on the Portuguese authorities to find more flexibility in their secrecy laws. British ambassador John Buck visited the Algarve last Thursday. A day later Portuguese police made a U-turn and issued a detailed description of the man, said to be white, 35 to 40, 5ft 10in and of medium build, with hair longer around the neck, wearing a dark jacket, light beige trousers and dark shoes.

Asked whether Brown had influenced the decision, Clarence Mitchell, a Foreign Office spokesman for the McCann family in the Algarve, said: 'Draw your own conclusions.' He said in a statement: 'I can confirm that telephone conversations have taken place between Gerry McCann and Chancellor Gordon Brown. During them, Mr Brown offered both Gerry and Kate his full support in their efforts to find Madeleine, although details of the conversations will remain private.'

Although they have praised the efforts being made to find their daughter, the McCanns were said to be increasingly frustrated in recent days at delays and communication problems. The family have met lawyers in the Algarve and threatened legal action to push for the information to be released because of the exceptional circumstances.

The Observer can confirm that a top law firm in London had been asked late last week to seek legal avenues through which the McCanns could be kept up to date on the latest developments in the investigations.

It also emerged yesterday that The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall had been following the case 'closely and with deep concern'.

The McCanns yesterday emerged from their apartment to say that they had had an 'amicable and very constructive' meeting with police. 'We very much welcome the decision of the police authorities to release details of a man seen by witnesses here in Praia da Luz on Thursday, 3 May, the night of Madeleine's disappearance,' Gerry said in a statement.

'The release of this important information followed an earlier meeting we had with senior police officers. We feel sure that this sighting of a man with what appeared to be a child in his arms is both significant and relevant to Madeleine's abduction.'

It emerged that the couple plan to widen their search across Europe. The McCanns are expected to visit Seville and Madrid before moving on to Berlin and Amsterdam. A source said that the reasoning behind the visits is that, 'after Britons, Spanish, Germans and the Dutch are the most frequent visitors to the Algarve', and the most likely to have seen something suspicious.

The campaign fund is now well over £300,000, according to Mitchell. He stressed that the McCanns 'never asked for a single euro'.

In a new interview yesterday the McCanns spoke about their feelings since the night they left their three children asleep in a holiday complex apartment while they dined with friends in the complex's grounds, returning to find Madeleine had been abducted, and their refusal to give up hope of welcoming her back with 'a very big hug'. Asked if she forgets for even one second that her daughter is missing, Kate said: 'Madeleine is such a huge personality it is obvious when she is not there.'

Gerry, wearing yellow and green ribbons on his wrist to accompany those his wife has tied to her hair for more than three weeks, said: 'My waking thought is that the phone by the bedside has not rung. And that means Madeleine has not been found.'

Kate added: 'I am better in the morning, it seems like a fresh start. Evenings are harder. '

The McCanns are drawing strength from their twins, two-year-old Sean and Amelie. Kate said: 'The twins are so young they just get on with things, but obviously we don't want them to forget about Madeleine. We are hoping to see a child psychologist to explain what has happened to Madeleine to the twins.'

She added: 'They help us to get through this. We are a strong family and they were so close to Madeleine, only 20 months apart.'

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare... This is so rare. It's a million to one. We really have to make sure it doesn't affect the twins growing up and their normal childhood. 'This is not a time for grieving. We believe she is still alive, so grief is not the appropriate emotion. We are absolutely determined to get her back. It's a bit like we are waging a war. It's a backs-to-the-wall thing.' His eyes welled up with tears when asked the first thing he would do if Madeleine returned home.

'I think we will be having a very big hug. Hope, strength and courage are our motto. There is nothing more I would like than to see Madeleine walk in, so we could use the fund to help find other missing children.'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/27/ukcrime.gordonbrown
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 10, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Were they now ... one can only wonder why?

It seems sensible to me that Madeleine's parents might want to see the progress of her case by getting as much information out there and if they organised a bit of so called "political interference" to achieve helping their daughter ... more power to their elbow, I say!

Just as their use of lawyers to the same end ... "political interference" ~ "waste of fund money on their legal bills" ... of progressing Madeleine's case to its utmost has attracted the same outrage.

It also puts a different light on the reasons behind why there was no reconstruction early days ... how well would it have gone down for the Jane/Gerry and Jez sequence when the principle player was seen walking at the top of the street carrying a pyjama clad little girl?

The mystery to me is that why a couple firm in the belief their daughter is still alive, are excoriated for their unceasing and tireless efforts to find her. 

To me that is one of the more enduring mysteries of Madeleine's disappearance and proof of the power of propaganda.



Madeleine: Brown urged police to give more details
Chancellor acts after parents voice their concern at the lack of disclosure by Portuguese detectives

Brendan de Beer in Praia da Luz

Sun 27 May 2007

Gordon Brown has personally intervened in the search for missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann after her parents became frustrated by the lack of progress in the police investigation.

After a series of telephone conversations with Madeleine's father, Gerry McCann in recent days, the Chancellor requested assistance from the Foreign Office and the Home Office. He asked that pressure be brought to bear on the Portuguese authorities to allow more information about the inquiry to be made public.

Gerry and his wife, Kate, have been desperate for a description of a man seen carrying what appears to have been a child on 3 May to be made public, but Portuguese police refused for three weeks because of the country's laws, which forbid the details of an investigation being released.

The Observer understands that Brown gave the McCanns an assurance he would do 'anything he can' to help. The British embassy duly applied pressure on the Portuguese authorities to find more flexibility in their secrecy laws. British ambassador John Buck visited the Algarve last Thursday. A day later Portuguese police made a U-turn and issued a detailed description of the man, said to be white, 35 to 40, 5ft 10in and of medium build, with hair longer around the neck, wearing a dark jacket, light beige trousers and dark shoes.

Asked whether Brown had influenced the decision, Clarence Mitchell, a Foreign Office spokesman for the McCann family in the Algarve, said: 'Draw your own conclusions.' He said in a statement: 'I can confirm that telephone conversations have taken place between Gerry McCann and Chancellor Gordon Brown. During them, Mr Brown offered both Gerry and Kate his full support in their efforts to find Madeleine, although details of the conversations will remain private.'

Although they have praised the efforts being made to find their daughter, the McCanns were said to be increasingly frustrated in recent days at delays and communication problems. The family have met lawyers in the Algarve and threatened legal action to push for the information to be released because of the exceptional circumstances.

The Observer can confirm that a top law firm in London had been asked late last week to seek legal avenues through which the McCanns could be kept up to date on the latest developments in the investigations.

It also emerged yesterday that The Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall had been following the case 'closely and with deep concern'.

The McCanns yesterday emerged from their apartment to say that they had had an 'amicable and very constructive' meeting with police. 'We very much welcome the decision of the police authorities to release details of a man seen by witnesses here in Praia da Luz on Thursday, 3 May, the night of Madeleine's disappearance,' Gerry said in a statement.

'The release of this important information followed an earlier meeting we had with senior police officers. We feel sure that this sighting of a man with what appeared to be a child in his arms is both significant and relevant to Madeleine's abduction.'

It emerged that the couple plan to widen their search across Europe. The McCanns are expected to visit Seville and Madrid before moving on to Berlin and Amsterdam. A source said that the reasoning behind the visits is that, 'after Britons, Spanish, Germans and the Dutch are the most frequent visitors to the Algarve', and the most likely to have seen something suspicious.

The campaign fund is now well over £300,000, according to Mitchell. He stressed that the McCanns 'never asked for a single euro'.

In a new interview yesterday the McCanns spoke about their feelings since the night they left their three children asleep in a holiday complex apartment while they dined with friends in the complex's grounds, returning to find Madeleine had been abducted, and their refusal to give up hope of welcoming her back with 'a very big hug'. Asked if she forgets for even one second that her daughter is missing, Kate said: 'Madeleine is such a huge personality it is obvious when she is not there.'

Gerry, wearing yellow and green ribbons on his wrist to accompany those his wife has tied to her hair for more than three weeks, said: 'My waking thought is that the phone by the bedside has not rung. And that means Madeleine has not been found.'

Kate added: 'I am better in the morning, it seems like a fresh start. Evenings are harder. '

The McCanns are drawing strength from their twins, two-year-old Sean and Amelie. Kate said: 'The twins are so young they just get on with things, but obviously we don't want them to forget about Madeleine. We are hoping to see a child psychologist to explain what has happened to Madeleine to the twins.'

She added: 'They help us to get through this. We are a strong family and they were so close to Madeleine, only 20 months apart.'

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare... This is so rare. It's a million to one. We really have to make sure it doesn't affect the twins growing up and their normal childhood. 'This is not a time for grieving. We believe she is still alive, so grief is not the appropriate emotion. We are absolutely determined to get her back. It's a bit like we are waging a war. It's a backs-to-the-wall thing.' His eyes welled up with tears when asked the first thing he would do if Madeleine returned home.

'I think we will be having a very big hug. Hope, strength and courage are our motto. There is nothing more I would like than to see Madeleine walk in, so we could use the fund to help find other missing children.'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/27/ukcrime.gordonbrown

A very nice post but it doesn't appear to be in answer to mine Brietta. Perhaps you could explain.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 10, 2018, 04:03:14 PM
A very nice post but it doesn't appear to be in answer to mine Brietta. Perhaps you could explain.

This is what stands out to me.......

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare...



So finding maddie gone wasn't the worst nightmare.....

They left them all ...but thankfully only took one sounds like to me.......imo

something that should not have been said.....nothing could be worse than finding one gone....

no thanks to kate running out of the room window open door open yer right ....imo

sorry sunny ...it was intended for briettas postt....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 10, 2018, 04:34:01 PM
Instead of constantly pointing out how ignorant supporters are why don’t you explain in plain simple English why we are wrong, without recourse to cryptic put-downs?


That was the very reason I came in here after about three months as a visitor.
There are perfectly adequate reference libraries where the subject may be looked up. I presume every one is intelligent enough to know how to use them. You may not find the answer you want but it will be the correct one.
It saves giving you the opportunity to drag another thread off topic by the "only asking questions" M.O.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 10, 2018, 04:36:55 PM


That was the very reason I came in here after about three months as a visitor.
There are perfectly adequate reference libraries where the subject may be looked up. I presume every one is intelligent enough to know how to use them. You may not find the answer you want but it will be the correct one.
It saves giving you the opportunity to drag another thread off topic by the "only asking questions" M.O.

for all your research youve added little if anything that wasnt already known IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 05:38:26 PM


That was the very reason I came in here after about three months as a visitor.
There are perfectly adequate reference libraries where the subject may be looked up. I presume every one is intelligent enough to know how to use them. You may not find the answer you want but it will be the correct one.
It saves giving you the opportunity to drag another thread off topic by the "only asking questions" M.O.
@)(++(* you take this all far too seriously.  Who really is going to visit a reference library to answer questions when we can simply ask the Font of All Knowledge that is yourself (though your repeated reluctance to share your vast knowledge on all subjects does lead to its own suspicions...)  Happy to live and die in blissful ignorance however seeing as you refuse to enlighten us.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 10, 2018, 05:49:59 PM
@)(++(* you take this all far too seriously. Who really is going to visit a reference library to answer questions when we can simply ask the Font of All Knowledge that is yourself (though your repeated reluctance to share your vast knowledge on all subjects does lead to its own suspicions...)  Happy to live and die in blissful ignorance however seeing as you refuse to enlighten us.

Oh boy that is good. I am not the one who spits out his dummy and stamps his little feet when his posts are deleted.
Suspect what you like me old China it makes no never mind.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 10, 2018, 05:55:10 PM
Oh boy that is good. I am not the one who spits out his dummy and stamps his little feet when his posts are deleted.
Suspect what you like me old China it makes no never mind.
Could you kindly dial down the aggression?  You’ll be telling me to shove things up orifices before long.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 10, 2018, 06:48:18 PM
Could we stay on topic please. TY.

Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 10, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
Could we stay on topic please. TY.

Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive


The absence of proof of death means she could still be alive... Unlikely  but possible
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 10, 2018, 07:07:25 PM
The absence of proof of death means she could still be alive... Unlikely  but possible

For once I agree but the possibility of her still being alive must be very slim.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 10, 2018, 07:31:47 PM
For once I agree but the possibility of her still being alive must be very slim.
How do the percentages work?  On the the 2nd May 2007 - there was 100% certainty Madeleine was alive.
On the night of the 3rd once she went missing was it 50%  ie either alive or dead.
I suppose anyone who has her each moment has the opportunity of killing her or of some other reason she can die e.g. an accident or illness.
So the possibility of her death must continually rise.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 10, 2018, 09:04:21 PM
How do the percentages work?  On the the 2nd May 2007 - there was 100% certainty Madeleine was alive.
On the night of the 3rd once she went missing was it 50%  ie either alive or dead.
I suppose anyone who has her each moment has the opportunity of killing her or of some other reason she can die e.g. an accident or illness.
So the possibility of her death must continually rise.
I think it is still a 50~50% consideration whether Madeleine is alive or not and in the absence of information to the contrary it is my opinion she has to be given the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 10, 2018, 09:21:40 PM
How do the percentages work?  On the the 2nd May 2007 - there was 100% certainty Madeleine was alive.
On the night of the 3rd once she went missing was it 50%  ie either alive or dead.
I suppose anyone who has her each moment has the opportunity of killing her or of some other reason she can die e.g. an accident or illness.
So the possibility of her death must continually rise.

I thnk it depends on which theory you follow /believe.

If you believe she was snatched from bed alive by paedophiles then , the chances of her still being alive after one week would be very  slim.

If she walked an wandered and was knocked down by a passing car/found to be dead  and was then lifted by the driver...

If she had an accident in the home  and died ...

I just cannot see a theory where she would still be alive,unless she was abducted from the street after wandering- she could be a slave of sorts.

 But then, her parents and supporters do not want this wandering looking for parents theory. So  95% chance she is not alive. IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 10, 2018, 09:32:53 PM
I think it is still a 50~50% consideration whether Madeleine is alive or not and in the absence of information to the contrary it is my opinion she has to be given the benefit of the doubt.


Fat lot of good that will do - IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 10, 2018, 09:50:26 PM
This is what stands out to me.......

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare...



So finding maddie gone wasn't the worst nightmare.....

They left them all ...but thankfully only took one sounds like to me.......imo

something that should not have been said.....nothing could be worse than finding one gone....

no thanks to kate running out of the room window open door open yer right ....imo

sorry sunny ...it was intended for briettas postt....

Classic Gerry! He likes making massive blunders and some question why it's still going after 11 years. Can't think why  *%87

May 2007
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/nintchdbpict000003834999.jpg?strip=all&w=960)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 10, 2018, 09:57:33 PM
Oh I missed  that bit...

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare...


Well Gerry, I suppose when you put it like that  its not all bad eh?

That quote is up there with the judge asking what was worse- the book or losing their daughter...

No. No. I am going to let you work that one out for yourself.. go on give it a try! ^*&&
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 10, 2018, 10:16:37 PM
Here is a strange comment by Kate McCann

Mrs McCann, 40, said: 'I don't feel as if Madeleine is dead. I really feel she is out there and we will find her. The chances of her being alive are as good now, if not better, than they were after the first three days of her going missing.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1017189/Where-night-Kate-What-grandmother-said-told-Madeleine-snatched.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 10, 2018, 10:47:36 PM
I thnk it depends on which theory you follow /believe.

If you believe she was snatched from bed alive by paedophiles then , the chances of her still being alive after one week would be very  slim.

If she walked an wandered and was knocked down by a passing car/found to be dead  and was then lifted by the driver...

If she had an accident in the home  and died ...

I just cannot see a theory where she would still be alive,unless she was abducted from the street after wandering- she could be a slave of sorts.

 But then, her parents and supporters do not want this wandering looking for parents theory. So  95% chance she is not alive. IMO
Thanks for your answer.  Can a parent's opinion have any bearing on the event.  That is what I find strange about this case, in that we listen to Gerry saying Madeleine didn't get out and wander.  How would he know?

I'm more of the thought that we are looking at the "residual possibilities".  I don't know if that is a term used before but since so many things have been ruled out, what is left and what are the residual probability Madeleine is alive and it becomes higher, because there are fewer explanations left to work through.
But when it comes to calculating probabilities I've always struggled so I could be very wrong.







Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 11, 2018, 07:03:07 AM
Thanks for your answer.  Can a parent's opinion have any bearing on the event.  That is what I find strange about this case, in that we listen to Gerry saying Madeleine didn't get out and wander.  How would he know?

I'm more of the thought that we are looking at the "residual possibilities".  I don't know if that is a term used before but since so many things have been ruled out, what is left and what are the residual probability Madeleine is alive and it becomes higher, because there are fewer explanations left to work through.
But when it comes to calculating probabilities I've always struggled so I could be very wrong.
Using the same calculation if there is one,what is the residual probability the girl was alive when removed from 5a,remembering Redwood thoughts on it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 11, 2018, 08:10:34 AM
Oh I missed  that bit...

Gerry said: 'We could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That's the worst nightmare...


Well Gerry, I suppose when you put it like that  its not all bad eh?

That quote is up there with the judge asking what was worse- the book or losing their daughter...

No. No. I am going to let you work that one out for yourself.. go on give it a try! ^*&&


IMO....the time spent hounding him ....the money spent doing it ....

IMO the book caused them more trauma grief.....


OH and kmcc could forgive the abducter...but not GA

So without a doubt IMO ...the book
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 11, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Here is a strange comment by Kate McCann

Mrs McCann, 40, said: 'I don't feel as if Madeleine is dead. I really feel she is out there and we will find her. The chances of her being alive are as good now, if not better, than they were after the first three days of her going missing.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1017189/Where-night-Kate-What-grandmother-said-told-Madeleine-snatched.html

I don't think it's a strange comment.  The first three days they were just thinking the worst had happened, Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile and murdered.   After a year,  no body being found other theories of what could have happened to Madeleine they had hope.   IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 11, 2018, 10:18:24 AM
I don't think it's a strange comment.  The first three days they were just thinking the worst had happened, Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile and murdered.   After a year,  no body being found other theories of what could have happened to Madeleine they had hope.   IMO


Oh right.....yet they started the bucket in the foyer...almost immediately...

was that just in case then......
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 13, 2018, 11:23:39 AM
I don't think it's a strange comment.  The first three days they were just thinking the worst had happened, Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile and murdered.   After a year,  no body being found other theories of what could have happened to Madeleine they had hope.   IMO

Kate's hope of Madeleine being alive may be higher after the first 3 but any chances of her being found alive would have at least remained the same or gone down.  They definitely wouldn't have gone up IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 13, 2018, 01:21:45 PM
How do the percentages work?  On the the 2nd May 2007 - there was 100% certainty Madeleine was alive.
On the night of the 3rd once she went missing was it 50%  ie either alive or dead.
I suppose anyone who has her each moment has the opportunity of killing her or of some other reason she can die e.g. an accident or illness.
So the possibility of her death must continually rise.
bib, can this be said with absolute certainty ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Gertrude on October 13, 2018, 01:43:57 PM
Here is a strange comment by Kate McCann

Mrs McCann, 40, said: 'I don't feel as if Madeleine is dead. I really feel she is out there and we will find her. The chances of her being alive are as good now, if not better, than they were after the first three days of her going missing.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1017189/Where-night-Kate-What-grandmother-said-told-Madeleine-snatched.html

But they were convinced straight away a paedophile took her?  They don't generally keep children around for long. This is maybe the oddest statement I've heard from them ( and there are many).

   Added to this, they have a large amount of money in the fund and they don't commission any more up to date age progression images of the daughter they think is alive and out there?!
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 13, 2018, 02:22:49 PM
How do the percentages work?  On the the 2nd May 2007 - there was 100% certainty Madeleine was alive.
On the night of the 3rd once she went missing was it 50%  ie either alive or dead.
I suppose anyone who has her each moment has the opportunity of killing her or of some other reason she can die e.g. an accident or illness.
So the possibility of her death must continually rise.

The percentages are not as simple as you suggest.

On the 2nd May the chance of her being alive was high, probably high 90%s.

The percentage probabilities on the night of the 3rd would depend on which of the main likelihood’s happened and on the associated probability of death of each.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 13, 2018, 06:08:29 PM
Kate's hope of Madeleine being alive may be higher after the first 3 but any chances of her being found alive would have at least remained the same or gone down.  They definitely wouldn't have gone up IMO.
That said maybe true but in my heart I'm thinking it is rising again now that Madeleine is growing up.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 13, 2018, 06:10:24 PM
bib, can this be said with absolute certainty ?
I think so (unless your name is Richard D Hall).
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2018, 06:31:20 PM
That said maybe true but in my heart I'm thinking it is rising again now that Madeleine is growing up.

I can't see the logic of that statement.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 13, 2018, 06:44:36 PM
I can't see the logic of that statement.
At some stage she may join up with Facebook and be recognised.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 13, 2018, 07:16:15 PM
At some stage she may join up with Facebook and be recognised.

You are making a lot of assumptions to get to that point. IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 13, 2018, 07:18:52 PM
At some stage she may join up with Facebook and be recognised.
Rose tinted spectacles  on when you wrote this .
If  anyone has her  I fear  she will not be allowed  access to a computer let alone   social media sites.
What kind of people  do you imagine she might be living with who would be so kind as to let her  roam around  free as a bird    ?   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 13, 2018, 07:49:38 PM
The percentages are not as simple as you suggest.

On the 2nd May the chance of her being alive was high, probably high 90%s.

The percentage probabilities on the night of the 3rd would depend on which of the main likelihood’s happened and on the associated probability of death of each.

2017 figures from here...

http://missingchildreneurope.eu/Portals/0/Docs/Annual%20and%20Data%20reports/Figures%20and%20Trends%20Report%202017.pdf (http://missingchildreneurope.eu/Portals/0/Docs/Annual%20and%20Data%20reports/Figures%20and%20Trends%20Report%202017.pdf)

Show 5621 missing children cases.

12 criminal abductions of whom 2 found though only 1 alive.
803 generally missing (wandered) of whom 562 found though 7 dead.
Obviously we have an unknown number of child body concealing though all of them result in death.

It would generate interest probabilities.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 13, 2018, 10:01:56 PM
You are making a lot of assumptions to get to that point. IMO
"May" not "will".
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 13, 2018, 10:05:32 PM
Rose tinted spectacles  on when you wrote this .
If  anyone has her  I fear  she will not be allowed  access to a computer let alone   social media sites.
What kind of people  do you imagine she might be living with who would be so kind as to let her  roam around  free as a bird    ?
Absolutely.   I am hoping she is being raised in a family with the feeling she was adopted by this other family.  At some stage she might have some affinity to the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it for herself.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 13, 2018, 11:10:09 PM
Absolutely.   I am hoping she is being raised in a family with the feeling she was adopted by this other family.  At some stage she might have some affinity to the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it for herself.

And they all live happily ever after?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 14, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
Absolutely.   I am hoping she is being raised in a family with the feeling she was adopted by this other family.  At some stage she might have some affinity to the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it for herself.
i realise that your hopes take your mind off the bad things she most certainly will have undergone if she's alive  but how you come to be thinking she might have some affinity with the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it seems to be carrying things  far too far .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 14, 2018, 12:45:00 AM
And they all live happily ever after?

Only untill she became a teenager. then it all falls down they hate everyone!

I love that story- she was abduced by a loving family via a jemmied window and they elf those other two kids to half freeze to death with a very windy cold night!- and according to JT version she was abducted with no shoes or blanket to keep her warm.. how bloody incondiderate of this loving family.

Of couse this was an invention to thwart the general public becoming aware and discussing of their strange behaviour as they told the world she was abducted by a gang of paedophiles...oh and the police were not doing nothing about it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 01:28:01 AM
i realise that your hopes take your mind off the bad things she most certainly will have undergone if she's alive  but how you come to be thinking she might have some affinity with the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it seems to be carrying things  far too far .
Don't you think she would have some distant memories of another family?  She might see the photo of the girl with the eye defect and think that is remarkably similar to my own.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 01:33:00 AM
Only untill she became a teenager. then it all falls down they hate everyone!

I love that story- she was abduced by a loving family via a jemmied window and they elf those other two kids to half freeze to death with a very windy cold night!- and according to JT version she was abducted with no shoes or blanket to keep her warm.. how bloody incondiderate of this loving family.

Of couse this was an invention to thwart the general public becoming aware and discussing of their strange behaviour as they told the world she was abducted by a gang of paedophiles...oh and the police were not doing nothing about it.
In my thinking the window was opened by some guys attempting to burgle the place.  Madeleine ran out when someone entered by the patio door.  She couldn't get into the Tapas area as someone had shut the door at the secondary reception, and then was picked up from the car park opposite.

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 14, 2018, 01:41:19 AM
Don't you think she would have some distant memories of another family?  She might see the photo of the girl with the eye defect and think that is remarkably similar to my own.

I recall my very first day at nursery, I was wearing a white dress with a red tabard! and I lost a shoe on my way home! I was just 3yrs 6 mnths. &^^&*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 14, 2018, 08:29:20 AM
Absolutely.   I am hoping she is being raised in a family with the feeling she was adopted by this other family.  At some stage she might have some affinity to the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it for herself.

Now back to reality.....

If that had been the case....

It would have been one of the twins...imo
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 14, 2018, 08:54:02 AM
In my thinking the window was opened by some guys attempting to burgle the place.  Madeleine ran out when someone entered by the patio door.  She couldn't get into the Tapas area as someone had shut the door at the secondary reception, and then was picked up from the car park opposite.

Reasonable choice Rob,but what burglars? SY interviewed the 3 amigos and lost interest in them later on.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 14, 2018, 09:12:59 AM
Don't you think she would have some distant memories of another family?  She might see the photo of the girl with the eye defect and think that is remarkably similar to my own.

Again you make the assumption that she is in a position to do that.
She may have no access to anything in the outside world.
She may have had no education - be unable to read or write
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 14, 2018, 12:37:19 PM
Again you make the assumption that she is in a position to do that.
She may have no access to anything in the outside world.
She may have had no education - be unable to read or write


Or still nearly four years old...in a place,..... she will never be found...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 14, 2018, 04:05:21 PM
Don't you think she would have some distant memories of another family?  She might see the photo of the girl with the eye defect and think that is remarkably similar to my own.
You're simply  dreaming all kinds of things up .
  Realistically speaking,  where do you  suggest she might see a photo of herself ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 14, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
In my thinking the window was opened by some guys attempting to burgle the place.  Madeleine ran out when someone entered by the patio door.  She couldn't get into the Tapas area as someone had shut the door at the secondary reception, and then was picked up from the car park opposite.
She stopped to close the gate behind her too  she was that much in a hurry and didn't let out any of the screams her paternal grandmother  said she could ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 04:18:24 PM
You're simply  dreaming all kinds of things up .
  Realistically speaking,  where do you  suggest she might see a photo of herself ?
Front page of a newspaper?  Cover of a book?  Youtube?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 14, 2018, 04:19:29 PM
Front page of a newspaper?  Cover of a book?  Youtube?

You know that she has access to any of this?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 04:21:36 PM
You know that she has access to any of this?

It might take some time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 04:22:16 PM
You know that she has access to any of this?
Don't be daft.  It was a hypothetical situation, where a girl is abducted to live with a loving family wasn't it?  Are you saying such a child in such a situation would not see books, papers or the internet and would never have heard about Madeleine McCann?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 14, 2018, 04:27:53 PM
Don't be daft.  It was a hypothetical situation, where a girl is abducted to live with a loving family wasn't it?  Are you saying such a child in such a situation would not see books, papers or the internet and would never have heard about Madeleine McCann?

The thread title mentions nothing about a 'loving family' This is just a supporter fantasy -IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 14, 2018, 04:31:09 PM
Don't be daft.  It was a hypothetical situation, where a girl is abducted to live with a loving family wasn't it?  Are you saying such a child in such a situation would not see books, papers or the internet and would never have heard about Madeleine McCann?
  In which country do you imagine this child is  living ? If not an English speaking country  she will be  speaking a foreign language, so  do you imagine foreign  newspapers will carry news about her ?   
As pointed out previously  if  a family is holding an abducted child , that's illegal  so they won't want her in  any  situations  where she might find out about herself  anyway?  Imo 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 14, 2018, 05:02:44 PM
Reasonable choice Rob,but what burglars? SY interviewed the 3 amigos and lost interest in them later on.

You know this how?

Last I heard was that much as Scotland Yard might have wished to follow through on further interviews with the three burglars ... it was not allowed.

If you know differently please post a link to inform the forum of what is going on.


Snip
It's claimed they have been identified as suspects by British police, but officers are being blocked from accessing them by Portuguese cops who say no new evidence has been brought forward.

An officer told the paper: 'It has dogged the investigation all the way through and it's happening again.

'If we can't question the three suspects again the trail goes cold and the case will be shelved.'

When they were previously interviewed, the men admitted theft from apartments at the complex but denied any involvement in the youngster's disappearance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3564019/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapped-botched-burglary-gang-thieves-British-police-quizzed-blocked-questioning-again.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 14, 2018, 06:14:36 PM
Ye gods how many times does it need to be posted.
Taken from Mark Rowleys statement back in April 2017,
Quote
The team has looked at in excess of 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to the disappearance. In 2013 the team identified four individuals they declared to be suspects in the case. This led to interviews at a police station in Faro facilitated by the local Policia Judiciária and the search of a large area of wasteland which is close to Madeleine's apartment in Praia Da Luz. The enquiries did not find any evidence to further implicate the individuals in the disappearance and so they are no longer subject of further investigation.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
  In which country do you imagine this child is  living ? If not an English speaking country  she will be  speaking a foreign language, so  do you imagine foreign  newspapers will carry news about her ?   
As pointed out previously  if  a family is holding an abducted child , that's illegal  so they won't want her in  any  situations  where she might find out about herself  anyway?  Imo
I think Madeleine is likely dead, but if she was taken by someone to live in their family and raised in a caring environment there would come a time when she would be independent and beyond their control so it would be possible that she could encounter pictures or footage of her younger self.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 07:33:19 PM
Now back to reality.....

If that had been the case....

It would have been one of the twins...imo
Not if the family had just lost a three year old.  Replace like with like.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 07:35:32 PM
Reasonable choice Rob,but what burglars? SY interviewed the 3 amigos and lost interest in them later on.
The burglars just opened the window, they didn't take MM in my theory.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg495479#msg495479  suggests something similar IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
You're simply  dreaming all kinds of things up .
  Realistically speaking,  where do you  suggest she might see a photo of herself ?
The parents have kept her case alive and being discussed now nearly 12 years on.  In the papers, on TV on the internet.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 14, 2018, 07:39:15 PM
You know this how?

Last I heard was that much as Scotland Yard might have wished to follow through on further interviews with the three burglars ... it was not allowed.

If you know differently please post a link to inform the forum of what is going on.


Snip
It's claimed they have been identified as suspects by British police, but officers are being blocked from accessing them by Portuguese cops who say no new evidence has been brought forward.

An officer told the paper: 'It has dogged the investigation all the way through and it's happening again.

'If we can't question the three suspects again the trail goes cold and the case will be shelved.'

When they were previously interviewed, the men admitted theft from apartments at the complex but denied any involvement in the youngster's disappearance.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3564019/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapped-botched-burglary-gang-thieves-British-police-quizzed-blocked-questioning-again.html
And one last line of enquiry to be completed soon, re Sir B H H.  Hmmmm.

If you have the slightest hint of what SY wanted to question them about further, I shall be happy to ask if the 3 amigos will speak to me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 07:41:40 PM
The thread title mentions nothing about a 'loving family' This is just a supporter fantasy -IMO
In what other situation would she still be alive? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 14, 2018, 07:42:15 PM
The burglars just opened the window, they didn't take MM in my theory.

I believe the News Of The World offered a £1.5 million reward,why wouldn't any supposed abductor not collect on that do you suppose.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 07:56:36 PM
Not if the family had just lost a three year old.  Replace like with like.

That is a crucial point, in my opinion, Rob.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 07:58:26 PM
I believe the News Of The World offered a £1.5 million reward,why wouldn't any supposed abductor not collect on that do you suppose.

Prison?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
I believe the News Of The World offered a £1.5 million reward,why wouldn't any supposed abductor not collect on that do you suppose.

Any supposed abductor would not collect on the reward as to do so they would end up in jail but there would almost certainly be someone else who knew what had happened and they would almost certainly have done so. 

A family who had lost a child can't suddenly come up with a different child and no one asks any questions. Even if they were to attempt to keep Madeleine hidden others would ask where their original child was surely.



Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 08:31:01 PM
Any supposed abductor would not collect on the reward as to do so they would end up in jail but there would almost certainly be someone else who knew what had happened and they would almost certainly have done so. 

A family who had lost a child can't suddenly come up with a different child and no one asks any questions. Even if they were to attempt to keep Madeleine hidden others would ask where their original child was surely.

They could if they were abroad when the child was born.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 08:46:43 PM
They could if they were abroad when the child was born.

So we are looking for a family that was "abroad" with no contact with other family members or friends for over 3 years.  Their child dies so they abduct Madeleine and then produce her to friends/family as their own. Do you really think it is believable?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 08:51:20 PM
I believe the News Of The World offered a £1.5 million reward,why wouldn't any supposed abductor not collect on that do you suppose.
Do you think an abductor, by turning himself in and revealing Madeleine’s wherabouts, would be eligible for the £1.5m reward?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 08:52:13 PM
So we are looking for a family that was "abroad" with no contact with other family members or friends for over 3 years.  Their child dies so they abduct Madeleine and then produce her to friends/family as their own. Do you really think it is believable?

They could have been in contact with family by Mail.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 09:07:23 PM
They could have been in contact with family by Mail.

So they didn't use email or telephone and they never sent a photograph of the young now dead child to family? Do you believe that really?  Myspace was very popular at that time wasn't it too?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 14, 2018, 09:16:08 PM
Do you think an abductor, by turning himself in and revealing Madeleine’s wherabouts, would be eligible for the £1.5m reward?


they should have been if it brought maddie back safe...what was the whole point of a reward....

But it wasn't IIRC....it had strings attached.... and doomed to fail anyway....

no one came forward.........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 09:22:27 PM
So they didn't use email or telephone and they never sent a photograph of the young now dead child to family? Do you believe that really?  Myspace was very popular at that time wasn't it too?
What amazed me were all the photos purporting to be Madeleine.  Not sure how that helps but maybe there were many lookalikes to begin with.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 09:35:56 PM
What amazed me were all the photos purporting to be Madeleine.  Not sure how that helps but maybe there were many lookalikes to begin with.

Which photographs are you talking about Rob?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 09:53:34 PM
So they didn't use email or telephone and they never sent a photograph of the young now dead child to family? Do you believe that really?  Myspace was very popular at that time wasn't it too?

I believe that it is possible.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 10:05:50 PM
I believe that it is possible.

Not very likely surely. The grandparents would want to at least see what their grandchild looked like or are they all conveniently dead?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 10:15:13 PM
Not very likely surely. The grandparents would want to at least see what their grandchild looked like or are they all conveniently dead?

You think it isn't likely and I think it is more so.  I don't know if the grandparents are dead.  They could be.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 14, 2018, 10:16:47 PM

they should have been if it brought maddie back safe...what was the whole point of a reward....

But it wasn't IIRC....it had strings attached.... and doomed to fail anyway....

no one came forward.........
LOL, I don’t think people who creep into a child’s bedroom at night to steal away a child are then rewarded with £1.5m when they bring them back otherwise every criminal would be doing it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 14, 2018, 10:26:21 PM
LOL, I don’t think people who creep into a child’s bedroom at night to steal away a child are then rewarded with £1.5m when they bring them back otherwise every criminal would be doing it.

Criminals aren't allowed to benefit from their crimes.  In fact they wouldn't even be allowed to write a book about it.

Silly suggestion if you ask me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 14, 2018, 10:37:07 PM
Which photographs are you talking about Rob?
All the faces of Madeleine McCann that come up with Google images.  I have never convinced myself they are all the same person even after hours of study.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 14, 2018, 10:41:06 PM
All the faces of Madeleine McCann that come up with Google images.  I have never convinced myself they are all the same person even after hours of study.

Do you mean photographs provided by the family? I have just had a look and can't find any others to be honest Rob.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 15, 2018, 12:40:22 AM
Absolutely.   I am hoping she is being raised in a family with the feeling she was adopted by this other family.  At some stage she might have some affinity to the story of Madeleine McCann and look into it for herself.
In my opinion, the most likely thing is that she was told repeatedly that she was got rid of by her family, or that 'they, Mr and Mrs Nice,'had rescued her because her parents were going to kill her.

Put out the propaganda before Mr and Mrs Nice took her in. 
'What good kind poeple we are to loook after a poor little girl abandoned by her wicked parents who didn't love her' sort of propaganda


Of course, 'Mr and Mrs Nice' might be just 'Mr Nice'
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 15, 2018, 12:46:25 AM
Only untill she became a teenager. then it all falls down they hate everyone!

I love that story- she was abduced by a loving family via a jemmied window and they elf those other two kids to half freeze to death with a very windy cold night!- and according to JT version she was abducted with no shoes or blanket to keep her warm.. how bloody incondiderate of this loving family.

Of couse this was an invention to thwart the general public becoming aware and discussing of their strange behaviour as they told the world she was abducted by a gang of paedophiles...oh and the police were not doing nothing about it.
I am wondering, do you have a vivid inventive mind?

Do you have a cite for all this that is supposed to have gone on?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 12:53:16 AM
Do you mean photographs provided by the family? I have just had a look and can't find any others to be honest Rob.
This one  from http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2012-05-03/today-marks-5th-anniversary-of-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann/ (https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/25279/image_update_bcfd36c88530de9c_1335985371_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg)
and this one from https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
 (https://e3.365dm.com/17/04/1600x900/71ab9a1b94d4cf632cfe657822e650a1039ddce90cc282a0e081ad5cac5d67f4_3935015.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20170420143126)

What convinces you that those two faces are MM?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 15, 2018, 01:20:06 AM
All the faces of Madeleine McCann that come up with Google images.  I have never convinced myself they are all the same person even after hours of study.

Are you talking about the artists impressions of 'what she would look like now ?

I agree, some of them are appalling
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 15, 2018, 01:23:53 AM
This one  from http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2012-05-03/today-marks-5th-anniversary-of-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann/ (https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/25279/image_update_bcfd36c88530de9c_1335985371_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg)
and this one from https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-set-to-be-extended-as-police-ask-for-more-funds-11024595
 (https://e3.365dm.com/17/04/1600x900/71ab9a1b94d4cf632cfe657822e650a1039ddce90cc282a0e081ad5cac5d67f4_3935015.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20170420143126)

What convinces you that those two faces are MM?

The second photo doesn't show, Rob

But imo, with the first photo, the camera is too close to Madeleines face distorting the image
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 05:43:00 AM
Are you talking about the artists impressions of 'what she would look like now ?

I agree, some of them are appalling
No the photos taken prior to the alleged abduction.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 15, 2018, 07:48:18 AM
Criminals aren't allowed to benefit from their crimes.  In fact they wouldn't even be allowed to write a book about it.

Silly suggestion if you ask me.

(https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1356467979l/279958.jpg)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 15, 2018, 08:20:59 AM
Criminals aren't allowed to benefit from their crimes.  In fact they wouldn't even be allowed to write a book about it.

Silly suggestion if you ask me.

Unfortunatly i quoted the wrong post it should have been what sunny posted

snip from sunny post
Any supposed abductor would not collect on the reward as to do so they would end up in jail but there would almost certainly be someone else who knew what had happened and they would almost certainly have done so.




what I put
they should have been if it brought maddie back safe...what was the whole point of a reward....

But it wasn't IIRC....it had strings attached.... and doomed to fail anyway....

no one came forward.........





now just say the so called abductor ...stayed somewhere with maddie...

or innocently involved...but involved all the same......


no one would come forward who new anything because of this ...

To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;

To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 15, 2018, 11:25:42 AM
CAN ANYONE MAKE SENSE OF THIS .....




m@hotmail.co.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2008 09:54
To: Campaign - Find Madeleine
Subject: Reward
 
Dear Sir/Madam
 
Could you answer 3 questions for me please?
 
[1] Why is the reward not shown on the official site?
[2] Is the reward no longer available?
[3] If it is no longer available what is the reason?
 
Many thanks
 
Pamalam





RE: Reward‏
From:    Campaign - Find Madeleine (reply@findmadeleine.com)
Sent:   17 December 2008 00:12:21
To:   pamalam (pamalam@hotmail.co.uk)
Dear Sir/Madam,
 
In answer to your questions:
 
As far as I know the rewards offered by the 'News Of The World'
and other benefactors are still available.
 
However, we have had varying advice about the possible benefits
and problems of rewards.
 
So after consulation, a decision was made not to push the rewards
on our website - although the situation is constantly being reviewed.

 
In the meantime, if anyone has any information that may help our
Investigation Team, they should contact:
Email investigation@findmadeleine.com
Tel +44 845 838 4699
 
Sandy Cameron
 
________________________________________
From: pamalam [pamala
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 15, 2018, 05:52:49 PM
All the faces of Madeleine McCann that come up with Google images.  I have never convinced myself they are all the same person even after hours of study.


IMO the 1st photo the mccs put out of maddie....18months younger

no one would have recognized her as she was...when she went missing

looked a completely different child on that photo...imo

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pa_F7nRtOxw/TOEKiC3UIFI/AAAAAAAAIAk/mFB47XUO3q0USEvgAuoylNhZAbC1NR9ggCPcB/s320/MadeleineA.png
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 07:11:53 PM

IMO the 1st photo the mccs put out of maddie....18months younger

no one would have recognized her as she was...when she went missing

looked a completely different child on that photo...imo

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pa_F7nRtOxw/TOEKiC3UIFI/AAAAAAAAIAk/mFB47XUO3q0USEvgAuoylNhZAbC1NR9ggCPcB/s320/MadeleineA.png
Yes it was a strange choice by Russell to use that photo.  At least he used a true "Madeleine McCann" photo.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 15, 2018, 07:12:49 PM
Yes it was a strange choice by Russell to use that photo.  At least he used a true "Madeleine McCann" photo.

Obviously hadn't seen the memo  8(0(*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 07:14:36 PM
Obviously hadn't seen the memo  8(0(*
Got me there!  Memo - remind me please?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 15, 2018, 07:44:36 PM
Yes it was a strange choice by Russell to use that photo.  At least he used a true "Madeleine McCann" photo.

Especially when a sighting and statement made ....was of that picture of maddie...

IMO that could have been one of the other tapas children.....not maddie.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA_JOSE.htm


When she was informed about the disappearance she did not realise which child this was, it was only later, upon watching the television news that night and after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the crèche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crêche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 09:02:14 PM
Especially when a sighting and statement made ....was of that picture of maddie...

IMO that could have been one of the other tapas children.....not maddie.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA_JOSE.htm


When she was informed about the disappearance she did not realise which child this was, it was only later, upon watching the television news that night and after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the crèche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crêche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant.
That "Maria Manuela Antonia Jose" is hard to believe for she was interviewed years later and in that interview she says she was working that night but in her statement she says: "With relation to the facts being investigated, she confirms that on the 4 May 2007, at about 18h30, when arriving for work at the complex, she heard from her supervisor, Steve, that a female child who was staying with her parents and siblings at one of the OC apartments had gone missing on the previous day (3rd May 2007)."

I suppose that is not actually saying she didn't work the day before.  But I don't get it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 15, 2018, 09:14:32 PM
That "Maria Manuela Antonia Jose" is hard to believe for she was interviewed years later and in that interview she says she was working that night but in her statement she says: "With relation to the facts being investigated, she confirms that on the 4 May 2007, at about 18h30, when arriving for work at the complex, she heard from her supervisor, Steve, that a female child who was staying with her parents and siblings at one of the OC apartments had gone missing on the previous day (3rd May 2007)."

I suppose that is not actually saying she didn't work the day before.  But I don't get it.

She made the statement on 6/5/2007...not years later...

she recognized maddie from the photo in the pink dress 18 months old ....on the tv...

it was nothing how maddie looked................why was that photo used....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 10:44:14 PM
She made the statement on 6/5/2007...not years later...

she recognized maddie from the photo in the pink dress 18 months old ....on the tv...

it was nothing how maddie looked................why was that photo used....
There were the poster images but I doubt if they were the ones on TV.   Sky News had one of the photos above on the 4th.

"When she was informed about the disappearance she did not realise which child this was, it was only later, upon watching the television news that night and after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the creche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crêche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant."

Without seeing the actual pictures Maria Manuela Jose saw we can't be sure.


Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 15, 2018, 10:47:26 PM
There were the poster images but I doubt if they were the ones on TV.   Sky News had one of the photos above on the 4th.

"When she was informed about the disappearance she did not realise which child this was, it was only later, upon watching the television news that night and after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the creche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crêche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant."

Without seeing the actual pictures Maria Manuela Jose saw we can't be sure.

There appeared to have been two photographs released straight away. Firstly the one that has been shared earlier was printed out and put around Praia Da Luz then the one with the red dress was released to UK media I think.

Neither represented Madeleine as she was at the time of her disappearance. One of the ones where she is wearing an Everton shirt would have be more relevant.  I think it very odd they chose those two photographs.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 10:54:21 PM
There appeared to have been two photographs released straight away. Firstly the one that has been shared earlier was printed out and put around Praia Da Luz then the one with the red dress was released to UK media I think.

Neither represented Madeleine as she was at the time of her disappearance. One of the ones where she is wearing an Everton shirt would have be more relevant.  I think it very odd they chose those two photographs.
Who is "they" when you say "they chose those two photographs"?   For in my mind I don't think of the McCanns were choosing anything.  Others released the images to the TV or chose the image to make the poster.

Wasn't it Jon Corner who released the images to Sky.  Did he get the right image from his computer?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 15, 2018, 10:58:44 PM
Who is "they" when you say "they chose those two photographs"?   For in my mind I don't think of the McCanns were choosing anything.  Others released the images to the TV or chose the image to make the poster.

Russell O'Brien and others from the tapas group but I believe that the McCanns had an input as it was their camera.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 15, 2018, 11:06:32 PM
Russell O'Brien and others from the tapas group but I believe that the McCanns had an input as it was their camera.
There is nothing in the investigation into the production of the poster photo that suggests the McCanns had an input into the selection of the photo.

We did a whole thread on the topic years ago.  I wonder if it survived?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 08:06:27 AM
Russell O'Brien and others from the tapas group but I believe that the McCanns had an input as it was their camera.


You would have thought they would have used the recent one in the park ....

showing maddie exactly as she was...

the one in the red dress..was more or less just the same....

showing maddie a lot younger....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 08:09:58 AM
There is nothing in the investigation into the production of the poster photo that suggests the McCanns had an input into the selection of the photo.

We did a whole thread on the topic years ago.  I wonder if it survived?


 they were aware of it .......

it was used till the pool one ...

three weeks later.....

the red dress one is still mainly used now ....in articles....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 16, 2018, 09:30:59 AM

 they were aware of it .......

it was used till the pool one ...

three weeks later.....

the red dress one is still mainly used now ....in articles....
I'm not talking about what they became aware of but whether it was their decision to use those photos.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 16, 2018, 09:42:35 AM
I'm not talking about what they became aware of but whether it was their decision to use those photos.

Do you really think they would allow someone else to make the decision ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 10:04:06 AM
I'm not talking about what they became aware of but whether it was their decision to use those photos.


They knew everything that was going on,,,

They didn't do anything about it even though they had more recent pics in the park.....

why not show this one ...full length how she looked at the time.....

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA3_8/03_volume_III_o_apenso_VIII_Page_588_mbm.jpg

Not the one in pink ...or this one in red....at a crucial time of the first few days.....

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-faded-poster-for-missing-british-child-madeleine-mccann-104101941.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=4546FC93-1CFB-49C0-B610-4C8EA2663F82&p=1
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 11:39:59 AM

You would have thought they would have used the recent one in the park ....

showing maddie exactly as she was...

the one in the red dress..was more or less just the same....

showing maddie a lot younger....


Madeleine isn't looking directly into the camera in the one of her in the park.   They usually like a photo with the full face of the child.    The one in the red dress shows Madeleine as she was the Christmas before she disappeared,   four months before which is hardly that much younger.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 16, 2018, 11:43:51 AM

They knew everything that was going on,,,

They didn't do anything about it even though they had more recent pics in the park.....

why not show this one ...full length how she looked at the time.....

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA3_8/03_volume_III_o_apenso_VIII_Page_588_mbm.jpg

Not the one in pink ...or this one in red....at a crucial time of the first few days.....

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-faded-poster-for-missing-british-child-madeleine-mccann-104101941.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=4546FC93-1CFB-49C0-B610-4C8EA2663F82&p=1
I am amazed that you are making a mystery out of the photo of Madeleine in red


It provides a full face image with the all important identifying defect in her eye showing

https://media1.picsearch.com/is?f5sx3aPpTHmLyZcO_HyHwyfRbf8n1Cw6YG--wzZd3KA&height=226
(https://media1.picsearch.com/is?f5sx3aPpTHmLyZcO_HyHwyfRbf8n1Cw6YG--wzZd3KA&height=226)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 16, 2018, 11:47:32 AM

They knew everything that was going on,,,

They didn't do anything about it even though they had more recent pics in the park.....

why not show this one ...full length how she looked at the time.....

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA3_8/03_volume_III_o_apenso_VIII_Page_588_mbm.jpg

Not the one in pink ...or this one in red....at a crucial time of the first few days.....

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-faded-poster-for-missing-british-child-madeleine-mccann-104101941.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=4546FC93-1CFB-49C0-B610-4C8EA2663F82&p=1

Furthermore I am amazed that you chose this faded out photo to illustrate the photo of Madeleine in red.

Is this an attempt to implant into peoples minds that she is dead ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 12:09:14 PM

Madeleine isn't looking directly into the camera in the one of her in the park.   They usually like a photo with the full face of the child.    The one in the red dress shows Madeleine as she was the Christmas before she disappeared,   four months before which is hardly that much younger.

If that was the case.....why is maddie looking down ...

on the poster, photo ...that I'm sure thousands n thousands will have been diributed....

http://www.findmadeleine.com/home.html

and looking sideways on the never give up photo

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html


Blows that theory right out the water in my opinion......both pics eyes closed....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 12:10:34 PM
I am amazed that you are making a mystery out of the photo of Madeleine in red


It provides a full face image with the all important identifying defect in her eye showing

https://media1.picsearch.com/is?f5sx3aPpTHmLyZcO_HyHwyfRbf8n1Cw6YG--wzZd3KA&height=226
(https://media1.picsearch.com/is?f5sx3aPpTHmLyZcO_HyHwyfRbf8n1Cw6YG--wzZd3KA&height=226)


my same reply goes to you as I posted to lace.....

what happened here then ....madies eyes are closed ...

http://www.findmadeleine.com/home.html


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 16, 2018, 12:11:46 PM
Furthermore I am amazed that you chose this faded out photo to illustrate the photo of Madeleine in red.

Is this an attempt to implant into peoples minds that she is dead ?


well, I am amazed you think I can.... implant anything in peoples heads....

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 16, 2018, 01:21:04 PM

Madeleine isn't looking directly into the camera in the one of her in the park.   They usually like a photo with the full face of the child.    The one in the red dress shows Madeleine as she was the Christmas before she disappeared,   four months before which is hardly that much younger.

Or was it 14 months Lace?

(http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/madeleine-mccann-sister.jpg)

If you look at Madeleine and her  sister in this other red dress photograph I would say the Christmas before the Christmas before Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 16, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Just how old were the twins at Christmas 2005 ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 16, 2018, 02:41:07 PM
Just how old were the twins at Christmas 2005 ?
Born Feb 2005.  Making them 2 and a quarter when Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 16, 2018, 02:50:29 PM
So 10 month at Christmas.
Could the younger girl in the photo posted  above by Sunny be 10 months old ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 04:20:03 PM

my same reply goes to you as I posted to lace.....

what happened here then ....madies eyes are closed ...

http://www.findmadeleine.com/home.html


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html

That isn't the photo given to the PJ at the start though is it?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 04:21:55 PM
Or was it 14 months Lace?

(http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/madeleine-mccann-sister.jpg)

If you look at Madeleine and her  sister in this other red dress photograph I would say the Christmas before the Christmas before Madeleine's disappearance.


No it isn't,  it's the Christmas before Madeleine disappeared.   Have you watched the video's ?   It shows the twins toddling to look at Madeleine's kitchen.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 16, 2018, 04:28:07 PM

No it isn't,  it's the Christmas before Madeleine disappeared.   Have you watched the video's ?   It shows the twins toddling to look at Madeleine's kitchen.


I haven't. Can you post a link for the video please?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 05:04:07 PM

I haven't. Can you post a link for the video please?

There's this one Madeleine is wearing a cardigan over the red dress,  it says underneath Christmas 2006,  there is one with the twins looking at her kitchen will try and find it.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=madeleine+mccann%27s+last+christmas+2006+youtube&view=detail&mid=311E8A2F18BE17B3C32A311E8A2F18BE17B3C32A&FORM=VIRE




Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 16, 2018, 05:58:46 PM
Do you really think they would allow someone else to make the decision ?
I can't see how they did control it, being stuck in Praia da Luz.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 16, 2018, 06:03:44 PM

Madeleine isn't looking directly into the camera in the one of her in the park.   They usually like a photo with the full face of the child.    The one in the red dress shows Madeleine as she was the Christmas before she disappeared,   four months before which is hardly that much younger.
Did they have that "Red Dress" photo with them on the night of the 3rd?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 16, 2018, 06:12:48 PM
There's this one Madeleine is wearing a cardigan over the red dress,  it says underneath Christmas 2006,  there is one with the twins looking at her kitchen will try and find it.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=madeleine+mccann%27s+last+christmas+2006+youtube&view=detail&mid=311E8A2F18BE17B3C32A311E8A2F18BE17B3C32A&FORM=VIRE
There are better videos than that compilation.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 06:16:03 PM

I haven't. Can you post a link for the video please?

It's this one I was thinking about,  sorry she's still in her pyjama's haven'tal been changed into the red dress, but look at her hair it's the same as the photo in the red dress and her face.   All these video's were taken Christmas 2006 -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32POkpBO7sU
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 16, 2018, 06:20:52 PM
Just looking closely at that video,  are Madeleine and Amelie dressed in the same pyjama's?    If so could be more evidence that Kate did buy the same pyjama's for Amelie as in the ones Madeleine was wearing when she disappeared.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 16, 2018, 06:42:07 PM
There are better videos than that compilation.

Yes, the problem with compilations is that they may not always be sequential and thus may be misleading.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 16, 2018, 06:54:33 PM
Yes, the problem with compilations is that they may not always be sequential and thus may be misleading.
The music drives me batty.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 17, 2018, 02:21:30 AM

my same reply goes to you as I posted to lace.....

what happened here then ....madies eyes are closed ...

http://www.findmadeleine.com/home.html


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html
What are you going on about?  In both the images you mention her eyes are open

The best photo is the one they used.  It showed her eye flaw as well as her general appearance, clearly and sharply.

.... and as Lace pointed out, taken only 4 months before.

Why are you trying to deny that this photo is a good one for searching for Madeleine ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 17, 2018, 08:57:15 AM
The music drives me batty.

Put your sound on mute.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 17, 2018, 09:02:17 AM
If you look closely at the video of Madeleine carrying the present,  you can see Kate with Amelie who is wearing the same red dress.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 17, 2018, 10:20:47 AM
What are you going on about?  In both the images you mention her eyes are open

The best photo is the one they used.  It showed her eye flaw as well as her general appearance, clearly and sharply.

.... and as Lace pointed out, taken only 4 months before.

Why are you trying to deny that this photo is a good one for searching for Madeleine ?


what are you going on about...

Im talking about the campaign clothing....the missing still missed ...posters...

look at the pictures again ....one looking sideways ....her eyes or not visible....

scroll down to the teashirt on the link...dont give up on me ...never give up....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html


the poster ...looking down ...in the bottom right corner of the online shop

the poster photo that you download...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html

the pic in the red dress....you would have to be in her face to see her eye.....

does not show build or height .....or hair....nothing physically as she was.....

how you can say they are good for searching imo is rubish....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 17, 2018, 12:43:18 PM

what are you going on about...

Im talking about the campaign clothing....the missing still missed ...posters...

look at the pictures again ....one looking sideways ....her eyes or not visible....

scroll down to the teashirt on the link...dont give up on me ...never give up....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html


the poster ...looking down ...in the bottom right corner of the online shop

the poster photo that you download...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6196197/Shock-Kate-McCann-closes-online-fundraising-shop.html

the pic in the red dress....you would have to be in her face to see her eye.....

does not show build or height .....or hair....nothing physically as she was.....

how you can say they are good for searching imo is rubish....


Compare the photo Madeleine given to the police [in red dress]  a full facial photo,  compare it to other photo's of missing children,  the police ask for a full facial photo,  details of height etc are given as well.   Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that shown?  No it isn't.   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 17, 2018, 04:18:58 PM

Compare the photo Madeleine given to the police [in red dress]  a full facial photo,  compare it to other photo's of missing children,  the police ask for a full facial photo,  details of height etc are given as well.   Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that shown?  No it isn't.

Compare Madeleine in the red dress to this photograph (also full frontal).  When was this taken, as Madeleine looks a lot older in this one IMO
(https://www.direttanews.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Madeleine-McCann.jpg)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 17, 2018, 04:36:50 PM
Compare Madeleine in the red dress to this photograph (also full frontal).  When was this taken, as Madeleine looks a lot older in this one IMO
(https://www.direttanews.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Madeleine-McCann.jpg)



exactly sunny.....

looking at that ....and the one in red dress ....

is like looking at two different children......


how strange is that ,.....they complained the PJ wasn't doing anything...

yet they not only contaminated...the room with 20 people trampling around...

but also it seems a photo that didn't look like maddie as she was ...at the time she went missing...


you would think imo ....they didn't want her found...



Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 17, 2018, 04:51:05 PM


exactly sunny.....

looking at that ....and the one in red dress ....

is like looking at two different children......


how strange is that ,.....they complained the PJ wasn't doing anything...

yet they not only contaminated...the room with 20 people trampling around...

but also it seems a photo that didn't look like maddie as she was ...at the time she went missing...


you would think imo ....they didn't want her found...

I would say that that photo of her in the Everton football shirt was the best one.

Now...can we all get back to topic please. TY
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 17, 2018, 08:36:45 PM

Compare the photo Madeleine given to the police [in red dress]  a full facial photo,  compare it to other photo's of missing children,  the police ask for a full facial photo,  details of height etc are given as well.   Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that shown?  No it isn't.
What parent would take a photo of their child highlighting their birthmarks?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 17, 2018, 08:46:06 PM
I would say that that photo of her in the Everton football shirt was the best one.

Now...can we all get back to topic please. TY
The only evidence we actually have on the case after Madeleine went missing are the photos used in the posters or news paper articles, or videos released by the parents or at least family and friends (we really don't know where they came from).

If the released photos are not a logical choice, I feel that act becomes suspicious, and one might think it supports a theory she isn't alive.  I think this is why a discussion on the released photos is one of the best clues and is "on topic" believe it or not.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 18, 2018, 11:17:47 AM
The only evidence we actually have on the case after Madeleine went missing are the photos used in the posters or news paper articles, or videos released by the parents or at least family and friends (we really don't know where they came from).

If the released photos are not a logical choice, I feel that act becomes suspicious, and one might think it supports a theory she isn't alive.  I think this is why a discussion on the released photos is one of the best clues and is "on topic" believe it or not.

Well i agree with you ... I think..

Quite a few things were suspicious at the begining ....

to think maddie dead rathere than alive...



like kmcc running out apartment ...and leaving twins

yet she knew maddie had been abducted...

if she was so near why ...didnt she shout...

why waste time searching apatrment ...when the window was wide open

if she knew maddie had been abducted straight away...

The photo released ....was not an accurate one...

as said it showed her eye...who was going to see it at a glance..

it should have been how maddie physically looked...

they let 20 or so people in searching ...

yet she knew maddie had been abducted.

Why did they not search for her..

They left the twins in creche ...the very next day.

yet it could have been anyone in that complex...

why did they not doubt T7...surley you would trust no one ...

If thought abducted ...it could have been an inside job....

You would surley want a reconstruction...

the time line scribbled on maddies book...how could you think that logicliy

Dissing mrs fenn ...instead of wanting to know if she had seen anything...

going back to the photo they gave in pink ...and red dress...

that would have planted in peoples minds ...

a complete different illusion of how maddie looked....

so in statements was, it maddie they were actually talkig about...

when that picture looks more like one of tapas child...

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.....

there has not been one single thing to say maddie is alive...

Imo the mccs displayed more that maddie was dead ...than alive..

my post is all my opinion...

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 18, 2018, 11:34:53 AM
Well i agree with you ... I think..

Quite a few things were suspicious at the begining ....

to think maddie dead rathere than alive...



like kmcc running out apartment ...and leaving twins

yet she knew maddie had been abducted...

if she was so near why ...didnt she shout...

why waste time searching apatrment ...when the window was wide open

if she knew maddie had been abducted straight away...

The photo released ....was not an accurate one...

as said it showed her eye...who was going to see it at a glance..

it should have been how maddie physically looked...

they let 20 or so people in searching ...

yet she knew maddie had been abducted.

Why did they not search for her..

They left the twins in creche ...the very next day.

yet it could have been anyone in that complex...

why did they not doubt T7...surely you would trust no one ...

If thought abducted ...it could have been an inside job....

You would surely want a reconstruction...

the time line scribbled on maddies book...how could you think that logicliy

Dissing mrs fenn ...instead of wanting to know if she had seen anything...

going back to the photo they gave in pink ...and red dress...

that would have planted in peoples minds ...

a complete different illusion of how maddie looked....

so in statements was, it maddie they were actually talkig about...

when that picture looks more like one of tapas child...

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.....

there has not been one single thing to say maddie is alive...

Imo the mccs displayed more that maddie was dead ...than alive..

my post is all my opinion...
""no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive.  Right so you think they point to dead rather than alive.

I think your point about Mrs Fenn is right.  Other points are debatable IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2018, 12:40:15 PM
Well i agree with you ... I think..

Quite a few things were suspicious at the begining ....

to think maddie dead rathere than alive...



like kmcc running out apartment ...and leaving twins

yet she knew maddie had been abducted...

if she was so near why ...didnt she shout...

why waste time searching apatrment ...when the window was wide open

if she knew maddie had been abducted straight away...

The photo released ....was not an accurate one...

as said it showed her eye...who was going to see it at a glance..

it should have been how maddie physically looked...

they let 20 or so people in searching ...

yet she knew maddie had been abducted.

Why did they not search for her..

They left the twins in creche ...the very next day.

yet it could have been anyone in that complex...

why did they not doubt T7...surley you would trust no one ...

If thought abducted ...it could have been an inside job....

You would surley want a reconstruction...

the time line scribbled on maddies book...how could you think that logicliy

Dissing mrs fenn ...instead of wanting to know if she had seen anything...

going back to the photo they gave in pink ...and red dress...

that would have planted in peoples minds ...

a complete different illusion of how maddie looked....

so in statements was, it maddie they were actually talkig about...

when that picture looks more like one of tapas child...

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.....

there has not been one single thing to say maddie is alive...

Imo the mccs displayed more that maddie was dead ...than alive..

my post is all my opinion...
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A8_5/2_VOLUME%20IIa_Page_467_prosesso_small.jpg)

From the PJ

To: The Assistant Prosecutor
Public Ministry


Date: 04-05-2007



Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press


As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.

I enclose a model for divulgation.

With best compliments

The Coordinator of the Investigation.

G. Amaral
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm



Please may we have less of this nonsense regarding photographs.
Madeleine's photograph was released into the public domain in accordance with Portuguese law at the request of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral.

As far as the rest of your list is concerned in my opinion it has all been discussed ad nauseam ...  bringing to mind the thought ... on how many occasions is it necessary to reinvent the wheel?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 18, 2018, 12:56:38 PM
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A8_5/2_VOLUME%20IIa_Page_467_prosesso_small.jpg)

From the PJ

To: The Assistant Prosecutor
Public Ministry


Date: 04-05-2007



Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press


As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.

I enclose a model for divulgation.

With best compliments

The Coordinator of the Investigation.

G. Amaral
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm



Please may we have less of this nonsense regarding photographs.
Madeleine's photograph was released into the public domain in accordance with Portuguese law at the request of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral.

As far as the rest of your list is concerned in my opinion it has all been discussed ad nauseam ...  bringing to mind the thought ... on how many occasions is it necessary to reinvent the wheel?


don't know what your point is here....

they can only publish the photo they were given...

Also known as maddie.....

Didn't mccs say she is never called maddie....

so who give that info....

seems like you don't approve ...

but it is just some of my reasons why

although not evidence ... maddie is not alive imo

there is no evidence to say she is..

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 18, 2018, 01:20:21 PM


Please may we have less of this nonsense regarding photographs.
Madeleine's photograph was released into the public domain in accordance with Portuguese law at the request of the case coordinator Goncalo Amaral.

As far as the rest of your list is concerned in my opinion it has all been discussed ad nauseam ...  bringing to mind the thought ... on how many occasions is it necessary to reinvent the wheel?
Apologies for snipping your post Brietta but it made a very long post to quote.   

You may have discussed the choice of photographs to share "ad nauseam" but some of us have not so are we to be penalised for not joining in the case until recently?   

The posts that have been shared so far have all be relevant to the case, none have been abusive or unpleasant so I cannot understand what your problem is. 

I believe the choice of photographs was made using the most photogenic ones rather than the most accurate representative of what Madeleine looked at that time.

All IMO of course.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 18, 2018, 02:37:53 PM
What parent would take a photo of their child highlighting their birthmarks?

Did I say the parents took a photo of their child highlighting her birthmarks?   No.   extina was saying they should have shown the photo of Madeleine in the play area as it shows her height etc.  I said they want a full facial photo and they don't give out all details of the child such as a birthmark.   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 18, 2018, 02:41:30 PM
Madeleine in the red dress give a clear full facial of Madeleine.    Why would they not give a good photo of her?  They obviously thought it was the best one and I would think the parents would be the best judge of that.   All this oh she looks younger in that one, she looks older in that one,  is nonsense.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 18, 2018, 03:48:34 PM
Madeleine in the red dress give a clear full facial of Madeleine.    Why would they not give a good photo of her?  They obviously thought it was the best one and I would think the parents would be the best judge of that.   All this oh she looks younger in that one, she looks older in that one,  is nonsense.

Do you really think that questioning their using a photograph of a younger looking Madeleine is "nonsense"?   Surely if they wanted to help people out there searching for her they would use the best photograph available and the red dress is not the best photograph as she is clearly much younger in that one.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 18, 2018, 04:15:23 PM
Madeleine in the red dress give a clear full facial of Madeleine.    Why would they not give a good photo of her?  They obviously thought it was the best one and I would think the parents would be the best judge of that.   All this oh she looks younger in that one, she looks older in that one,  is nonsense.


No one has said maddie looked older ....it was as she was....

It was a likeness of her as she was when she went missing...

clearer for identification purposes....which was the reason for it...

As for the mccs judgment....

didn't work out well on the checking either did it ...IMO...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 18, 2018, 06:34:41 PM
Did I say the parents took a photo of their child highlighting her birthmarks?   No.   extina was saying they should have shown the photo of Madeleine in the play area as it shows her height etc.  I said they want a full facial photo and they don't give out all details of the child such as a birthmark.
Well I do find your posts a bit confusing sometimes but checking back you said: "Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that shown?  No it isn't."

Are now saying you meant "Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that mentioned?  No it isn't.   
Well it is in the document cited. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg496797#msg496797 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 18, 2018, 07:31:27 PM
Well I do find your posts a bit confusing sometimes but checking back you said: "Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that shown?  No it isn't."

Are now saying you meant "Madeleine had a birth mark on her leg is that mentioned?  No it isn't.   
Well it is in the document cited. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg496797#msg496797


I think she meant the close up younger maddie photo was sufficient...

for identification purposes,...if anyone spotted her...


IMO the photo as she was was.... age appropriate and height...

more important than any defects maddie had...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 18, 2018, 08:26:51 PM
Apologies for snipping your post Brietta but it made a very long post to quote.   

You may have discussed the choice of photographs to share "ad nauseam" but some of us have not so are we to be penalised for not joining in the case until recently?   

The posts that have been shared so far have all be relevant to the case, none have been abusive or unpleasant so I cannot understand what your problem is. 

I believe the choice of photographs was made using the most photogenic ones rather than the most accurate representative of what Madeleine looked at that time.

All IMO of course.

Do you have an explanation for why you think discussion of these photographs ties in with the thread title ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 18, 2018, 09:05:14 PM
Do you have an explanation for why you think discussion of these photographs ties in with the thread title ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive?


IMO one of the whole points of allowing that photo...is because it didn't matter...

The only reason I would think ...is because maddie was no longer alive...

so much trouble/concern about GA book...saying stopped public looking for maddie....

yet in the vital hours/days...a photo of maddie was accepted....

That did not portray her as she was ....when she went missing on the 3/5/2007....


post in my opinion.........

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 18, 2018, 09:26:58 PM
Do you have an explanation for why you think discussion of these photographs ties in with the thread title ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive?

I suppose I am on the naughty step now Brietta. I think this is an important aspect of the case. You clearly do not and if it is off topic then so be it. Please create a new topic starting with the original post that turned the thread.

All the posts including your earlier one can then go onto the new thread where we can discuss the choice of photographs.

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 18, 2018, 11:04:42 PM

IMO one of the whole points of allowing that photo...is because it didn't matter...

The only reason I would think ...is because maddie was no longer alive...

so much trouble/concern about GA book...saying stopped public looking for maddie....

yet in the vital hours/days...a photo of maddie was accepted....

That did not portray her as she was ....when she went missing on the 3/5/2007....


post in my opinion.........

Yep, it was taken four months before and was the spitting image of her, a crstal clear close up and had the main identifying characteristic showing. i.e. The coloboma  in her eye shows distinctly

Furthermore it was taken full face, which is recommended

Everything perfect



Seems that you are picking flies ?  Am i right ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 18, 2018, 11:09:39 PM

IMO one of the whole points of allowing that photo...is because it didn't matter...

The only reason I would think ...is because maddie was no longer alive...

so much trouble/concern about GA book...saying stopped public looking for maddie....

yet in the vital hours/days...a photo of maddie was accepted....

That did not portray her as she was ....when she went missing on the 3/5/2007....


post in my opinion.........

Are you accusing the Mccanns of providing a duff photo because they KNEW SHE WAS DEAD ?   

If I were you, xtina, I should be e little more circumspect with my words and accusations
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 18, 2018, 11:11:54 PM
I suppose I am on the naughty step now Brietta. I think this is an important aspect of the case. You clearly do not and if it is off topic then so be it. Please create a new topic starting with the original post that turned the thread.

All the posts including your earlier one can then go onto the new thread where we can discuss the choice of photographs.

Anyway there is evidence that Madeleine was still alive in 2012.

Such a shame that I cant post it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 12:23:16 AM
Anyway there is evidence that Madeleine was still alive in 2012.

Such a shame that I cant post it.
You might as well for SY seem to have done nothing with it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 12:38:22 AM
Are you accusing the Mccanns of providing a duff photo because they KNEW SHE WAS DEAD ?   

If I were you, xtina, I should be e little more circumspect with my words and accusations
I have already pointed out to Sunny that the first two photos appear to have been released to the press without the McCanns say so.

If I have my facts straight the Sky News photo or video clip was released by Jon Corner, and the poster photo was chosen off the card from Kate's camera by Russell O'Brien.

OK both of those photos appear as odd to me, for IMO the Sky News photo (4th May 2007) was not Madeleine, and the poster photo I've been told was supposedly 18 months earlier.
Does this give us a clue as to what is going on?

For some strange reason some of the other moderators don't like me discussing this topic.

Surely it must be relatively easy to show if the Sky Photo was Madeleine McCann or just a lookalike.

The thing that surprised me was that Gerry McCann put up the "Not Madeleine" photo up in his office in PDL.

So part of me says I'm wrong but at other times I feel sure they are not the same.


Surely we must be able to see if Gerry McCann had an input into which photo was chosen for the poster photo.

If we were able to resolve those issues we then could ask ourselves if there is "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 12:50:02 AM
""no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive" 
If the McCanns and the Tapas 7 know Madeleine is deceased that would have shown up early wouldn't it?

Why produce so many posters if they knew she was dead?
Why go to the trouble of getting the photos off the SD card?

Why get her face out there on Sky News if she was dead?

Ok I hear some saying deception and diversion.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 19, 2018, 08:17:49 AM
Anyway there is evidence that Madeleine was still alive in 2012.

Such a shame that I cant post it.


That's a cop out imo,now I've asked before why on earth if she was alive then why would officers from SY be digging up the Portuguese countryside in 2014,unless its being suggested that who ever held her captive no longer had any use for her.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 19, 2018, 08:21:14 AM
I have already pointed out to Sunny that the first two photos appear to have been released to the press without the McCanns say so.

If I have my facts straight the Sky News photo or video clip was released by Jon Corner, and the poster photo was chosen off the card from Kate's camera by Russell O'Brien.

OK both of those photos appear as odd to me, for IMO the Sky News photo (4th May 2007) was not Madeleine, and the poster photo I've been told was supposedly 18 months earlier.
Does this give us a clue as to what is going on?

For some strange reason some of the other moderators don't like me discussing this topic.

Surely it must be relatively easy to show if the Sky Photo was Madeleine McCann or just a lookalike.

The thing that surprised me was that Gerry McCann put up the "Not Madeleine" photo up in his office in PDL.

So part of me says I'm wrong but at other times I feel sure they are not the same.


Surely we must be able to see if Gerry McCann had an input into which photo was chosen for the poster photo.

If we were able to resolve those issues we then could ask ourselves if there is "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive?
Bolded bit,run it past admin and start a new thread.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 09:28:34 AM
Bolded bit,run it past admin and start a new thread.
I'll give it some thought.  Trouble I'm having is I just a bit burnt out with the case. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 19, 2018, 09:47:28 AM
I'll give it some thought.  Trouble I'm having is I just a bit burnt out with the case.

All due respect you have put some time into it,but to what end? don't get me wrong, but its unsolvable imo,without a confession.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 11:11:25 AM
All due respect you have put some time into it,but to what end? don't get me wrong, but its unsolvable imo,without a confession.
I'm hoping for something even better than that, and that is an actual meeting with Madeleine McCann at sometime.
Reunion with her parents back at Praia da Luz.
Seems impossible, but it is possible, its just a matter of being ready for it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 19, 2018, 11:26:27 AM
I'm hoping for something even better than that, and that is an actual meeting with Madeleine McCann at sometime.
Reunion with her parents back at Praia da Luz.
Seems impossible, but it is possible, its just a matter of being ready for it.

Think you'll see the Four Horsemen before that, but hey oh.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 19, 2018, 11:45:06 AM
Yep, it was taken four months before and was the spitting image of her, a crstal clear close up and had the main identifying characteristic showing. i.e. The coloboma  in her eye shows distinctly

Furthermore it was taken full face, which is recommended

Everything perfect



Seems that you are picking flies ?  Am i right ?

Oh lol ....no flies on me sadie...



Sorry you don't get my point....it was not a spitting image of maddie ...imo

What good would the eye defect be if maddie was spotted at a distance ...no good at all...

the mccs had recent pics ....so what was the problem giving them two


you see trivial as you think this may be ... I can't believe how lapse a daisy they were

What with destroying evidence in the room...& IMO not giving an age appropriate full length photo...

As you know ... I don't believe maddie was abducted.....

But as you think she was....mccs blamed the PJ for not doing enough...

IMO ...neither did the mccs....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 19, 2018, 11:52:18 AM
Do you really think that questioning their using a photograph of a younger looking Madeleine is "nonsense"?   Surely if they wanted to help people out there searching for her they would use the best photograph available and the red dress is not the best photograph as she is clearly much younger in that one.

Madeleine was four months younger in the photo of her in the red dress,   so you think four months would make her a lot older looking?

The  red dress one is a close up view of Madeleine's face.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 19, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
Madeleine was four months younger in the photo of her in the red dress,   so you think four months would make her a lot older looking?

The  red dress one is a close up view of Madeleine's face.


Its not exactly four months is it ....but anyways ....

What good is a close up..if she was spotted in the distance...

imo ...she looks a lot younger ...than she was in PDL

what were her other characteristics...

her hair is longer for a start....and could be taller ....

you don't know how tall she is in the red dress one...

look at her in the photo ....then in the park one as they arrived...

or even the pool one she looks different...

a month is a lot in a childs life ...longer hair taller etc....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 19, 2018, 01:00:57 PM
Madeleine was four months younger in the photo of her in the red dress,   so you think four months would make her a lot older looking?

The  red dress one is a close up view of Madeleine's face.

Do we have proof that the photograph of Madeleine was taken at Christmas 2006?  I don't feel that it was, but much earlier.

How old was Madeleine in this photograph?

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_01/07Maddy21305MS_468x286.jpg)

Her sister looks   the same age as she does in the photograph of the sisters with the red dress.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 19, 2018, 01:36:56 PM
Do we have proof that the photograph of Madeleine was taken at Christmas 2006?  I don't feel that it was, but much earlier.

How old was Madeleine in this photograph?

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_01/07Maddy21305MS_468x286.jpg)

Her sister looks   the same age as she does in the photograph of the sisters with the red dress.


The McCann's said the photo of Madeleine in the red dress was taken Christmas 2006,  I would think they would know when it was taken.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 19, 2018, 01:38:16 PM

Its not exactly four months is it ....but anyways ....

What good is a close up..if she was spotted in the distance...

imo ...she looks a lot younger ...than she was in PDL

what were her other characteristics...

her hair is longer for a start....and could be taller ....

you don't know how tall she is in the red dress one...

look at her in the photo ....then in the park one as they arrived...

or even the pool one she looks different...

a month is a lot in a childs life ...longer hair taller etc....

A close up is what the police want for a poster.   Look at posters for other missing children. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 19, 2018, 03:45:36 PM
A close up is what the police want for a poster.   Look at posters for other missing children.


Not as close up as the one they gave...

If the police wanted that one ....

wasn't it the police who did not want to mention her eye...

so as back to get on topic...

I don't believe the abduction scenario...

  how this was all handled in the beginning...by the mccs/T7

imo.....there is nothing to support that maddie is alive....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 04:00:03 PM

Not as close up as the one they gave...

If the police wanted that one ....

wasn't it the police who did not want to mention her eye...

so as back to get on topic...

I don't believe the abduction scenario...

  how this was all handled in the beginning...by the mccs/T7

imo.....there is nothing to support that maddie is alive....

Her eye was mentioned in the early days, issued in a description by The PJ,

In My Opinion because I don't know how to find a Cite.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 19, 2018, 04:27:14 PM
Her eye was mentioned in the early days, issued in a description by The PJ,

In My Opinion because I don't know how to find a Cite.


found this on here of all places....lol....

seems like the PJ didn't want that pic after all....

and definitely not a close up....

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7041.0


quote from carana

Total likes: 1402
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Re: The Portuguese police and Madeleine McCann's eye defect.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 04:31:01 PM »
Quote


But Portuguese police, whose investigations usually operate in secret, always opposed the publicity and did not even want the child’s photograph to be distributed.

Mr Anjos told Radio 4’s Inside Stories programme: “We thought that the photos should not show the distinct mark Madeleine had in her eye.

“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html



Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 19, 2018, 06:01:56 PM

found this on here of all places....lol....

seems like the PJ didn't want that pic after all....

and definitely not a close up....

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7041.0


quote from carana

Total likes: 1402
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Re: The Portuguese police and Madeleine McCann's eye defect.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 04:31:01 PM »
Quote


But Portuguese police, whose investigations usually operate in secret, always opposed the publicity and did not even want the child’s photograph to be distributed.

Mr Anjos told Radio 4’s Inside Stories programme: “We thought that the photos should not show the distinct mark Madeleine had in her eye.

“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html

Vanity Fair interview 10th Jan 2008

Although initially reluctant, the McCanns finally informed the media of Madeleine’s unique right eye—a risky revelation. Whoever had taken the child now held a universally recognizable little girl.

 Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 06:13:07 PM


33b Draft of pictures and details of missing child to be released to the press
01 Processos Vol I Page 33 B

Press Release

Disappearance of Minor


The Policia Judiciaria requests information about the whereabouts of Madeleine Beth McCann, born on 12-05-2003 (three years old) with the following physical characteristics: 90 cm in height, light chestnut/blond hair, blue/green left eye and a green right eye with a brown mark in the pupil.

She disappeared from Praia da Luz, Lagos on 03-05-2007 wearing pyjamas with white coloured bottoms with a floral design and a blue and grey figure on the front with the inscription 'EEYORE'.

Any information should be directed to the Head of the Faro PJ telephone number 289 884 500 or to the Portimao DIC tel 282 405 400.

05 May 2007
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 19, 2018, 07:30:21 PM

found this on here of all places....lol....

seems like the PJ didn't want that pic after all....

and definitely not a close up....

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7041.0


quote from carana

Total likes: 1402
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Re: The Portuguese police and Madeleine McCann's eye defect.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 04:31:01 PM »
Quote


But Portuguese police, whose investigations usually operate in secret, always opposed the publicity and did not even want the child’s photograph to be distributed.

Mr Anjos told Radio 4’s Inside Stories programme: “We thought that the photos should not show the distinct mark Madeleine had in her eye.

“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html


Are you still trying to argue that the police don't want a close up photo of a missing child?    All missing children have a close up photo on their posters.

The Portuguese Police had already put out the information on Madeleine.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 07:40:19 PM

Press release in PT showing the photo attached can be seen Below:
01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_33B
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 19, 2018, 07:52:52 PM

33b Draft of pictures and details of missing child to be released to the press
01 Processos Vol I Page 33 B

Press Release

Disappearance of Minor


The Policia Judiciaria requests information about the whereabouts of Madeleine Beth McCann, born on 12-05-2003 (three years old) with the following physical characteristics: 90 cm in height, light chestnut/blond hair, blue/green left eye and a green right eye with a brown mark in the pupil.

She disappeared from Praia da Luz, Lagos on 03-05-2007 wearing pyjamas with white coloured bottoms with a floral design and a blue and grey figure on the front with the inscription 'EEYORE'.

Any information should be directed to the Head of the Faro PJ telephone number 289 884 500 or to the Portimao DIC tel 282 405 400.

05 May 2007

Madeleine had a mark in the iris of her eye, not in the pupil.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 07:56:03 PM
Madeleine had a mark in the iris of her eye, not in the pupil.

More sloppiness by The PJ.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 08:02:31 PM

found this on here of all places....lol....

seems like the PJ didn't want that pic after all....

and definitely not a close up....

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7041.0


quote from carana

Total likes: 1402
Newbie
View Profile  Personal Message (Offline)

Re: The Portuguese police and Madeleine McCann's eye defect.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 04:31:01 PM »
Quote


But Portuguese police, whose investigations usually operate in secret, always opposed the publicity and did not even want the child’s photograph to be distributed.

Mr Anjos told Radio 4’s Inside Stories programme: “We thought that the photos should not show the distinct mark Madeleine had in her eye.

“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html

That is quite an admission that PJ thought she had been abducted from day 1 not the parents.
"“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
That is quite an admission that PJ thought she had been abducted from day 1 not the parents.
"“From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap – which is what we believed from the start – the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person’s life in danger.”

Mr. Anjos.  Well he got that wrong.  The PJ released a description of Madeleine's eye defect.  The PJ also released a photograph.  The rest of what he has had to say was scandalous.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 19, 2018, 09:01:37 PM
More sloppiness by The PJ.

Or by Gerry or the translator. The same thing is said in Gerry's 4th May statement.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 09:11:06 PM
Or by Gerry or the translator. The same thing is said in Gerry's 4th May statement.

The important point is that it was The PJ who released Madeleine' description along with a photograph to The Press.  They did this on the 5th of May 2007.

And just in case, No, I do not have a problem with this.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 09:23:26 PM
The important point is that it was The PJ who released Madeleine' description along with a photograph to The Press.  They did this on the 5th of May 2007.

And just in case, No, I do not have a problem with this.
I don't think you can see the eye defect in the PJ photo.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 09:28:27 PM
I don't think you can see the eye defect in the PJ photo.

They mention the eye defect in The Description.  Which incidentally, I have just Posted.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 09:44:23 PM
They mention the eye defect in The Description.  Which incidentally, I have just Posted.
I agree it is in the worded description, but is it visible in the photo attached to that description?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 19, 2018, 09:48:48 PM
I agree it is in the worded description, but is it visible in the photo attached to that description?

I have no idea.  Does it matter?  These Coloboma are not as obvious as some seem to think.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 19, 2018, 09:52:10 PM
I have no idea.  Does it matter?  These Coloboma are not as obvious as some seem to think.
It does really, for we have just had a PJ saying it was a dangerous thing to do but they seem to have done the same thing themselves.
"Carlos Anjos, chairman of the Portuguese Union of Police Detectives, said the publicity drive by Kate and Gerry McCann to find their four-year-old daughter had damaged the investigation and he called on them to stop."

"But Portuguese police, whose investigations usually operate in secret, always opposed the publicity and did not even want the child's photograph to be distributed.

Mr Anjos told Radio 4's Inside Stories programme: "We thought that the photos should not show the distinct mark Madeleine had in her eye.

"From our experience of criminal investigations, if this was a kidnap - which is what we believed from the start - the revealing of such a distinct feature would put that person's life in danger."  end quote.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 19, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
I have no idea.  Does it matter?  These Coloboma are not as obvious as some seem to think.
So why "Look into my eyes."?
Misleading the public imo ,considering  Madeleine's passport only mentioned "small mark"
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 19, 2018, 10:04:07 PM
So why "Look into my eyes."?
Misleading the public imo ,considering  Madeleine's passport only mentioned "small mark"
Madeleine did have a distinguishing feature in her eye so why was it misleading to point it out?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 19, 2018, 10:21:17 PM
Madeleine did have a distinguishing feature in her eye so why was it misleading to point it out?
The person who filled the passport  form in put small mark as I just said , not  Coloboma .

When asked about it in later years in an interview with Piers Morgan Kate said it wasn't really noticeable .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 20, 2018, 12:28:43 AM
The person who filled the passport  form in put small mark as I just said , not  Coloboma .

When asked about it in later years in an interview with Piers Morgan Kate said it wasn't really noticeable .
Colobomas can be very small.  The general public would understand the term 'a small mark' much better than the name 'Coloboma'
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 20, 2018, 12:31:34 AM
You might as well for SY seem to have done nothing with it.

How do you know ? 8(>((
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 20, 2018, 12:34:15 AM
How do you know ? 8(>((
Well they have had enough time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 20, 2018, 12:50:04 AM
Well they have had enough time.

I.Y.O.

I suggest that you wait and see.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 20, 2018, 12:51:28 AM
I.Y.O.

I suggest that you wait and see.
I'd rather you told us what you know NOW.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 20, 2018, 07:24:18 AM
The person who filled the passport  form in put small mark as I just said , not  Coloboma .

When asked about it in later years in an interview with Piers Morgan Kate said it wasn't really noticeable .
Nevertheless it is there and would be useful in distinguishing Madeleine from a thousand other blonde little girls you might happen to see and think “maybe that’s Madeleine “, so how can this be misleading?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 08:28:09 AM
I'd rather you told us what you know NOW.

Its hard to tell nothing.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 20, 2018, 08:33:46 AM
Its hard to tell nothing.
It will be more than that. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 08:40:36 AM
It will be more than that.
I'm on tenterhook's just to see how a child was supposed alive in 2012 to be brought back to Luz and be buried for SY officers along with cadaver dogs to search the scrubland for remains in 2014.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
I'm on tenterhook's just to see how a child was supposed alive in 2012 to be brought back to Luz and be buried for SY officers along with cadaver dogs to search the scrubland for remains in 2014.

This was not necessarily what the search was all about.  And since no "Remains" were found it rather proved its point.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 09:16:57 AM
This was not necessarily what the search was all about.  And since no "Remains" were found it rather proved its point.

With no remains found it could be argued what was the point.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 09:22:05 AM

Are you still trying to argue that the police don't want a close up photo of a missing child?    All missing children have a close up photo on their posters.

The Portuguese Police had already put out the information on Madeleine.



I'm not trying to do anything ...especially argue...

I am telling you ....what my opinion os ...OK

The police didn't want to highlight it for obvious reasons...

calling it a fleck or something similar...

It was team mcc who wanted the full blown prominent mark feature ...

wasn't it suppose to be a good marketing ploy...

Mind you mccs wasn't bothered about the welfare of maddie before she went missing ...

so seems to me the same as when... she did go missing IMO



The Find Madeleine campaign was "a monster" which could have put her in danger, Portuguese police claimed yesterday.

Carlos Anjos, chairman of the Portuguese Union of Police Detectives, said the publicity drive by Kate and Gerry McCann to find their four-year-old daughter had damaged the investigation and he called on them to stop.

"The McCanns created a monster of information about the Maddie case which they then lost control of," he added.

Mr Anjos said the couple were "partly to blame" for the media storm and said they had not helped to solve the case.

He spoke out as a police source gave a brutal insight into the change of Portuguese public opinion towards the McCanns' desperate six-month search.

The source said: "The parents and their publicity campaign have turned her into a symbol of something ugly and wrong.

"People are sick of having it rammed down their throats."

The appeals for information had been repeated so often that even their supporters in Portugal no longer wanted to help.

Scroll down for more ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html







Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 09:27:00 AM
With no remains found it could be argued what was the point.

Erm, just in case?

In My Opinion it was a process of elimination.  Police often search Lakes, Rivers and Scrubland when they have no real idea if a missing person is alive or dead.
This should have been done by The Portuguese Police in the beginning.  It wasn't.  And now we know that Madeleine isn't buried there.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 09:31:32 AM


I'm not trying to do anything ...especially argue...

I am telling you ....what my opinion os ...OK

The police didn't want to highlight it for obvious reasons...

calling it a fleck or something similar...

It was team mcc who wanted the full blown prominent mark feature ...

wasn't it suppose to be a good marketing ploy...

Mind you mccs wasn't bothered about the welfare of maddie before she went missing ...

so seems to me the same as when... she did go missing IMO



The Find Madeleine campaign was "a monster" which could have put her in danger, Portuguese police claimed yesterday.

Carlos Anjos, chairman of the Portuguese Union of Police Detectives, said the publicity drive by Kate and Gerry McCann to find their four-year-old daughter had damaged the investigation and he called on them to stop.

"The McCanns created a monster of information about the Maddie case which they then lost control of," he added.

Mr Anjos said the couple were "partly to blame" for the media storm and said they had not helped to solve the case.

He spoke out as a police source gave a brutal insight into the change of Portuguese public opinion towards the McCanns' desperate six-month search.

The source said: "The parents and their publicity campaign have turned her into a symbol of something ugly and wrong.

"People are sick of having it rammed down their throats."

The appeals for information had been repeated so often that even their supporters in Portugal no longer wanted to help.

Scroll down for more ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492085/Madeleine-campaign-life-danger.html

Nevertheless it was The PJ who released a description of Madeleine and her eye defect, and a photograph.  This was done on the 5th of May 2007.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2018, 09:42:16 AM
Nevertheless it was The PJ who released a description of Madeleine and her eye defect, and a photograph.  This was done on the 5th of May 2007.

Really? the PJ released that
'look at/for me' blown up picture?

The McCanns played it up for marketing,accepting it may cause or bring harm to their daughter, then played it down...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 09:44:57 AM
Really? the PJ released that
'look at/for me' blown up picture?

The McCanns played it up for marketing,accepting it may cause or bring harm to their daughter, then played it down...

This is an illogical comment, and doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2018, 09:51:37 AM
This is an illogical comment, and doesn't make sense.

Fact= PJ did not release the blown up picture of MBM highlighting an eye defect. Nor did they mention a monster. THAT was for the  'public' and part of their marketing ploy, even though Gerry admits they may have cause harm to his daughter.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 09:55:47 AM
Nevertheless it was The PJ who released a description of Madeleine and her eye defect, and a photograph.  This was done on the 5th of May 2007.

think you may find that is when a request was made....

It also the one in the pink dress ...not the red one...

02-Processo Vol 2 Pages 467 and 468.
McCANN Madeleine Beth CONTROL NO. : F-131/5-2007

REQUESTING COUNTRY: PORTUGAL
FILE No. : 2007123403
DATE OF PUBLICATION: 8 May 2007
CIRCULATION TO THE MEDIA (INCLUDING INTERNET): YES
IDENTITY PARTICULARS

(Photograph of Madeleine)



BUILD : Slim
DISTINGUISHING MARKS AND CHARACTERISTICS :
Left Eye : Blue and Green colour
Right Eye : Green colour with a Brown spot in Retina
Small brown mark on Left Leg Calf.
Teeth : EUA
BLOOD GROUP : N/A
DNA CODE : N/A
REGIONS/COUNTRIES LIKELY TO BE VISITED : United Kingdom.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 10:04:22 AM
Erm, just in case?

In My Opinion it was a process of elimination.  Police often search Lakes, Rivers and Scrubland when they have no real idea if a missing person is alive or dead.
This should have been done by The Portuguese Police in the beginning.  It wasn't.  And now we know that Madeleine isn't buried there.

The Portuguese Police carried out thorough searches in PdL, and the Scrubland was screened by Eddie too;

The teams available and deployed by Major Seqeuira were drawn from unit of the GNR, Civil Protection, Fire Brigade, Red Cross and Urban Police. Each team numbered around 10 and between 80 to 100 personnel were involved in search activity.

The searches were based on a strategy of searching in "rescue and recovery mode? to locate the missing girl alive or if dead, not as a victim of crime. This search phase lasted for 7 days from the date M McCann went missing.

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

The next Zone 2 was extended out to a radius of 7km to the boundary of the N120 road at Bensafrim. As the sectors were larger and in order to support the line searches 2 GNR officers on motorcycles and 6 GNR officers on horse-back were deployed. These sectors were all searched on 2 separate occasions over the 7 day period.

The outer zone 3 was extended to 15km at Barragem de Odiaxere a dammed lake. This zone is in a mountainous region subject to flash forest fires.
Therefore Fire officers who routinely patrol and have local knowledge of the area were tasked to drive the tracks, visit empty properties to look for the missing girl. Additionally the fire brigade used a boat to visually inspect the surface water of the lake.

On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.

On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 10:21:00 AM
Erm, just in case?

In My Opinion it was a process of elimination.  Police often search Lakes, Rivers and Scrubland when they have no real idea if a missing person is alive or dead.
This should have been done by The Portuguese Police in the beginning.  It wasn't.  And now we know that Madeleine isn't buried there.

They don't search places for the sake of it,SY seemed to have identified the area from lord know's where then  interviewed the three amigo's after this so it didn't come from them.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 10:22:24 AM
The Portuguese Police carried out thorough searches in PdL, and the Scrubland was screened by Eddie too;

The teams available and deployed by Major Seqeuira were drawn from unit of the GNR, Civil Protection, Fire Brigade, Red Cross and Urban Police. Each team numbered around 10 and between 80 to 100 personnel were involved in search activity.

The searches were based on a strategy of searching in "rescue and recovery mode? to locate the missing girl alive or if dead, not as a victim of crime. This search phase lasted for 7 days from the date M McCann went missing.

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

The next Zone 2 was extended out to a radius of 7km to the boundary of the N120 road at Bensafrim. As the sectors were larger and in order to support the line searches 2 GNR officers on motorcycles and 6 GNR officers on horse-back were deployed. These sectors were all searched on 2 separate occasions over the 7 day period.

The outer zone 3 was extended to 15km at Barragem de Odiaxere a dammed lake. This zone is in a mountainous region subject to flash forest fires.
Therefore Fire officers who routinely patrol and have local knowledge of the area were tasked to drive the tracks, visit empty properties to look for the missing girl. Additionally the fire brigade used a boat to visually inspect the surface water of the lake.

On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.

On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

That's another myth of the Portuguese not searching put to bed.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 10:27:17 AM
The Portuguese Police carried out thorough searches in PdL, and the Scrubland was screened by Eddie too;

The teams available and deployed by Major Seqeuira were drawn from unit of the GNR, Civil Protection, Fire Brigade, Red Cross and Urban Police. Each team numbered around 10 and between 80 to 100 personnel were involved in search activity.

The searches were based on a strategy of searching in "rescue and recovery mode? to locate the missing girl alive or if dead, not as a victim of crime. This search phase lasted for 7 days from the date M McCann went missing.

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

The next Zone 2 was extended out to a radius of 7km to the boundary of the N120 road at Bensafrim. As the sectors were larger and in order to support the line searches 2 GNR officers on motorcycles and 6 GNR officers on horse-back were deployed. These sectors were all searched on 2 separate occasions over the 7 day period.

The outer zone 3 was extended to 15km at Barragem de Odiaxere a dammed lake. This zone is in a mountainous region subject to flash forest fires.
Therefore Fire officers who routinely patrol and have local knowledge of the area were tasked to drive the tracks, visit empty properties to look for the missing girl. Additionally the fire brigade used a boat to visually inspect the surface water of the lake.

On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.

On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

Thank You, G-Unit.  This a good Cite.

So you think somedebody snuck Madeleine's dead body back to this scrubland at a later date and then buried her while The Press were crawling all over the place?  Although probably not in the middle of the night.

However, the fact remains that no remains were found.  You can't really get around that.  Unless someone dug her up again.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2018, 10:28:42 AM
So why "Look into my eyes."?
Misleading the public imo ,considering  Madeleine's passport only mentioned "small mark"


The reason is,  as has been mentioned, it was a marketing ploy by the new business people/mummy and daddy. The PJ  DID NOT  show that blown up picture of MBM, and did not claim she had been abducted. I thought I would make that very clear.

Anyone got cites to challenge this?

 (&^& (&^& (&^&


Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
That's another myth of the Portuguese not searching put to bed.

Did they actually find anything?  Is that not the point?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 20, 2018, 10:31:34 AM
Did they actually find anything?  Is that not the point?


Actually no Eleanor.  Team McCann claimed that the PJ were doing nothing to find Madeleine right from the off it seems to me, clearly they were wrong.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 10:31:41 AM

The reason is,  as has been mentioned, it was a marketing ploy by the new business people/mummy and daddy. The PJ  DID NOT  show that blown up picture of MBM, and did not claim she had been abducted. I thought I would make that very clear.

Anyone got cites to challenge this?

 (&^& (&^& (&^&

There are a couple, but I don't have the time or the patience to repeat what is already on this Forum.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 10:33:55 AM

Actually no Eleanor.  Team McCann claimed that the PJ were doing nothing to find Madeleine right from the off it seems to me, clearly they were wrong.

The PJ appear to have thought that Madeleine was dead.  Still not Proven.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 10:34:29 AM
Did they actually find anything?  Is that not the point?


Because imo where they looked there was nothing to find,but to paraphrase you "just in case".
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 20, 2018, 10:35:33 AM
There are a couple, but I don't have the time or the patience to repeat what is already on this Forum.

Let's hope that someone else has the time or patience to do so then Eleanor.  Not all of us have been involved in this case for years and years so we could do with the information.

I do actually find the search box on here difficult to use as very few answers come up compared to the same searches using google.  Even then it is hard to find much information on some subjects that are supposedly "done to death" here.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 10:36:42 AM
The PJ appear to have thought that Madeleine was dead.  Still not Proven.

Is there any evidence that SY are actually looking for a live child,I guess by now they have concluded that she wasn't abducted in the uk as per their remit.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 20, 2018, 10:40:55 AM
The PJ appear to have thought that Madeleine was dead.  Still not Proven.


The parents also 'thought ' she might be dead... looking in bins and such ... what for ? a live abductor with a live child hiding?
 O KAYYYY.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 20, 2018, 10:43:04 AM
The PJ appear to have thought that Madeleine was dead.  Still not Proven.

Whether they did or not they did carry out investigations into other possibilities for her disappearance.  A lot of work went into looking for a live Madeleine if you read the files.

Of course it is not "Proven" as no one has been taken to court yet Eleanor.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
Thank You, G-Unit.  This a good Cite.

So you think somedebody snuck Madeleine's dead body back to this scrubland at a later date and then buried her while The Press were crawling all over the place?  Although probably not in the middle of the night.

However, the fact remains that no remains were found.  You can't really get around that.  Unless someone dug her up again.

My point was that the PJ did search, extensively, which you suggested they neglected to do.

Operation Grange seemed to think they could succeed where others failed, but they failed also. I don't think anyone was sneaking about burying people, but they seem to have thought it was a possibility. 

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:09:29 AM
Let's hope that someone else has the time or patience to do so then Eleanor.  Not all of us have been involved in this case for years and years so we could do with the information.

I do actually find the search box on here difficult to use as very few answers come up compared to the same searches using google.  Even then it is hard to find much information on some subjects that are supposedly "done to death" here.

No, some of you haven't been involved for as long as I have.   And I almost certainly know things that you don't. But there has to be a limit to continually providing Cites that have already been provided. 

I don't know how efficient The Search Facility is because I never use it.  And I so very rarely provide Cites, as no doubt you all know.  But on the one occasion recently that I felt I should, I found it in about ten seconds flat.  On Google.

As it happens, that Cite was entirely a spurious exercise and only served to prove yet another attempt to bash The McCanns.

PS.  Please don't assume that I don't know what it is that you are attempting to do.  I very much doubt that you are half as ignorant of the case as you pretend to be.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 11:09:56 AM
So why "Look into my eyes."?
Misleading the public imo ,considering  Madeleine's passport only mentioned "small mark"


Seems a rather big exaggeration too by the mccs....




Kate McCann: "We haven't put too much emphasis on her eye."




OK then, who produced these posters?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2011/05/kate-mccann-we-havent-put-too-much.html

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”







Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:19:20 AM

Because imo where they looked there was nothing to find,but to paraphrase you "just in case".

Thank You.  But do you think they should have looked somewhere else?  And if so, where?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
Is there any evidence that SY are actually looking for a live child,I guess by now they have concluded that she wasn't abducted in the uk as per their remit.

Oh do come on.  They said, "As if."
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:22:18 AM

The parents also 'thought ' she might be dead... looking in bins and such ... what for ? a live abductor with a live child hiding?
 O KAYYYY.

Another silly comment.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
Whether they did or not they did carry out investigations into other possibilities for her disappearance.  A lot of work went into looking for a live Madeleine if you read the files.

Of course it is not "Proven" as no one has been taken to court yet Eleanor.

The McCanns certainly never will be.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 11:26:02 AM
Another silly comment.

why is it a silly comment...

The mccs were looking in bins ....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 11:26:18 AM

Seems a rather big exaggeration too by the mccs....




Kate McCann: "We haven't put too much emphasis on her eye."




OK then, who produced these posters?

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/2011/05/kate-mccann-we-havent-put-too-much.html

Gerry understood that. But, he says, the iris “is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or”—he grimaces—“her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”

The topic of this thread is ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive

Be kind enough to explain the context of your post in relation to that. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:27:30 AM
My point was that the PJ did search, extensively, which you suggested they neglected to do.

Operation Grange seemed to think they could succeed where others failed, but they failed also. I don't think anyone was sneaking about burying people, but they seem to have thought it was a possibility.

Sadly, I don't think The PJ did a very good job.  I don't actually know why.  Probably lack of experience and a penchant for always suspecting The Mother.
Perhaps Mothers make a habit of killing their children in Portugal.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 11:28:57 AM
The topic of this thread is ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive

Be kind enough to explain the context of your post in relation to that.


because i believe by the mccs actions etc etc....

it does not show that they thought maddie was alive....IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:29:58 AM
why is it a silly comment...

The mccs were looking in bins ....

For a Live Abductor and a Live Child Hiding?  If that ain't silly then God help me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 11:30:33 AM
Another silly comment.

I agree it is a comment which is in extremely poor taste ... but at least it does try to address the thread topic which seems to have fallen by the wayside as far as most are concerned.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 11:32:17 AM
Sadly, I don't think The PJ did a very good job.  I don't actually know why.  Probably lack of experience and a penchant for always suspecting The Mother.
Perhaps Mothers make a habit of killing their children in Portugal.


I think you will find...

Mothers/fathers have a habit of killing there children everywhere ...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 11:34:09 AM
For a Live Abductor and a Live Child Hiding?  If that ain't silly then God help me.


No .....it would have been for a dead maddie.....not a live one...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 11:39:20 AM
Sadly, I don't think The PJ did a very good job.  I don't actually know why.  Probably lack of experience and a penchant for always suspecting The Mother.
Perhaps Mothers make a habit of killing their children in Portugal.

You may think the PJ didn't do a very food job, but you're not really qualified to judge, are you?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 11:45:20 AM

No .....it would have been for a dead maddie.....not a live one...
Don't you think the Policia Judiciaria should have considered looking for a child who dead or alive might have been dumped in a bin?
I believe the Mark Warner nannies gve it some thought.

Was the rubbish allowed to be taken away from the village to its destination without an arrangement being made to have it dumped there in an area where the contents could be inspected?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 11:50:00 AM
You may think the PJ didn't do a very food job, but you're not really qualified to judge, are you?

I think your post is not in the spirit of criticising the post and more along the lines of criticising the poster.

This is a discussion forum ... on which all members are qualified to express opinion within the rules ... please bear that in mind when attempting to counter what is said in a post.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:50:41 AM

I think you will find...

Mothers/fathers have a habit of killing there children everywhere ...

So Mothers and Fathers are always guilty?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:51:52 AM

No .....it would have been for a dead maddie.....not a live one...

That is not what Mistaken Identity said.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
You may think the PJ didn't do a very food job, but you're not really qualified to judge, are you?

And nor are you.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 12:10:49 PM
So Mothers and Fathers are always guilty?

You tell me....... it is you who asked about mothers in Portugal..

anyway are we not off topic here...

or is it ok for you to be off topic when it suits.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 12:33:34 PM
You tell me....... it is you who asked about mothers in Portugal..

anyway are we not off topic here...

or is it ok for you to be off topic when it suits.....

You might like to read your comment again, and amend it.  Then I might be able to answer you.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 12:46:29 PM
And nor are you.

I have read, and quoted, what they did. It seemed adequate to me but not to you. So be it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 01:07:13 PM
You might like to read your comment again, and amend it.  Then I might be able to answer you.


What should I amend ....apart from us being off topic.....again


snip
YOU
 Perhaps Mothers make a habit of killing their children in Portugal.

snip
ME
I think you will find...

Mothers/fathers have a habit of killing there children everywhere ...


snip
YOU
So Mothers and Fathers are always guilty?

snip
ME
You tell me....... it is you who asked about mothers in Portugal..

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 01:16:35 PM
I have read, and quoted, what they did. It seemed adequate to me but not to you. So be it.

Well, we aren't going to fall out about it, are we.  Least of all you and me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 01:44:25 PM
Well, we aren't going to fall out about it, are we.  Least of all you and me.

There's no point in getting upset over different opinions about the facts.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 01:46:15 PM

What should I amend ....apart from us being off topic.....again


snip
YOU
 Perhaps Mothers make a habit of killing their children in Portugal.

snip
ME
I think you will find...

Mothers/fathers have a habit of killing there children everywhere ...


snip
YOU
So Mothers and Fathers are always guilty?

snip
ME
You tell me....... it is you who asked about mothers in Portugal..

You said, "We are not Off Topic" in reply to my comment, and then asked if I thought that this was okay for me.

How should this apply to my comment to your comment?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 01:47:21 PM
There's no point in getting upset over different opinions about the facts.

Absolutely not.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 02:03:49 PM
You said, "We are not Off Topic" in reply to my comment, and then asked if I thought that this was okay for me.

How should this apply to my comment to your comment?


NO Elenor


I said........anyway are we not off topic here...

you twisted  are we..... to..... we are

what is matter with you today ...read my post again....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
In my opinion it is premature to discuss a theory of Mdeleine's death when not a scintilla of proof exists to support Amaral's conclusion that she is.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
In my opinion it is premature to discuss a theory of Mdeleine's death when not a scintilla of proof exists to support Amaral's conclusion that she is.


Not a scintilla of evidence that maddie is alive either...

GA conclusion ....he was there ...coordinating it as it happened ...came to a conclusion...

SY ...skipped that bit ...yet spent 12 million ....to find nothing....or any conclusion..


Don't they also say police have a nose for it or hunch/gut feeling....etc etc


John Stalker, the former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester, agreed that hunches were important. Most detectives develop a knack of knowing whether people were telling the truth, he said, and that was often a good guide.

He said, "You obviously need to take into account information and evidence. But after doing a job for years you do develop a great inside knowledge into how criminals' minds work. Following a hunch can give you an insight into what has happened. Police forces have developed theories about crime, which can be very useful but are no replacement for experience.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1309879/Gut-feelings-help-solve-crimes.html

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 02:29:27 PM

NO Elenor


I said........anyway are we not off topic here...

you twisted  are we..... to..... we are

what is matter with you today ...read my post again....

Whoops.  Sorry.  I must be tired and emotional again.  My apologies.  I have been up since 6am in an endeavour to catch the latest stray cat to get her to The Vet to have her stitches out before she bogged off for the day, which I did manage to do.

This cost me nearly my entire week's Pension to get her done, but the alternative was unthinkable, and she isn't going to leave because she likes it here.  And if that isn't Off Topic then heaven knows what is.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 02:32:14 PM
Whoops.  Sorry.  I must be tired and emotional again.  My apologies.  I have been up since 6am in an endeavour to catch the latest stray cat to get her to The Vet to have her stitches out before she bogged off for the day, which I did manage to do.

This cost me nearly my entire week's Pension to get her done, but the alternative was unthinkable, and she isn't going to leave because she likes it here.  And if that isn't Off Topic then heaven knows what is.


Oh dear....no probs anyway

good luck with that.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 03:00:14 PM

Oh dear....no probs anyway

good luck with that.....

The large number of stray cats around here has just ceased to be a great problem.  Someone put down poison, so I just had to pick up a couple of dead bodies that I found in my garden.  That was a bit emotional.  One of them was a beaut Siamese that I was half attached to.

Fortunately, "No Name" was a bit incapacitated by the operation and couldn't jump the garden gate while the poison was there.  Losing 105 Euros to poison would not have been funny.  And I discovered that I am a pragmatist at heart.
Although I did very nearly cry over the Siamese, so I am obviously a frightful snob as well.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 03:01:03 PM
In my opinion it is premature to discuss a theory of Mdeleine's death when not a scintilla of proof exists to support Amaral's conclusion that she is.

There is not a scintilla of proof according to Rowley to support she is alive, so should that not be discussed either.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 03:56:47 PM
There is not a scintilla of proof according to Rowley to support she is alive, so should that not be discussed either.

 Then what do you think constitutes proof that Madeleine is dead?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 04:01:06 PM
Are you accusing the Mccanns of providing a duff photo because they KNEW SHE WAS DEAD ?   

If I were you, xtina, I should be e little more circumspect with my words and accusations


I think that also applies to you sadie...

you say you know she was alive in 2012.... yet will not divulge why...

I think that is wrong to do ....you have not a thing to back that up...

At least what i put is in my opinion....

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
Then what do you think constitutes proof that Madeleine is dead?


or you ..that .maddie is alive....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 04:14:33 PM

or you ..that .maddie is alive....

The ever unanswerable question.  So carry on speculating.  Some of us hope and some us do not.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 20, 2018, 04:22:59 PM
Then what do you think constitutes proof that Madeleine is dead?

The same as if she is alive,proof,Rowley assistant commissioner to the MET no less, said they have no evidence to show if she (Madeleine)is alive or dead,meaning they haven't a clue.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 04:28:03 PM

Not a scintilla of evidence that maddie is alive either...

GA conclusion ....he was there ...coordinating it as it happened ...came to a conclusion...

SY ...skipped that bit ...yet spent 12 million ....to find nothing....or any conclusion..


Don't they also say police have a nose for it or hunch/gut feeling....etc etc


John Stalker, the former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester, agreed that hunches were important. Most detectives develop a knack of knowing whether people were telling the truth, he said, and that was often a good guide.

He said, "You obviously need to take into account information and evidence. But after doing a job for years you do develop a great inside knowledge into how criminals' minds work. Following a hunch can give you an insight into what has happened. Police forces have developed theories about crime, which can be very useful but are no replacement for experience.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1309879/Gut-feelings-help-solve-crimes.html

John Stalker is in no doubt that Madeleine was abducted based on his experience.

Despite apparently being in ignorance at the time, of the Portuguese secrecy laws which prevented Kate and Gerry and their friends from talking about the case, John Stalker had the following to say about the investigation and the ineptitude of the Portuguese police in employing basic policing procedures.
He is in particular scathing about the mishandling and misunderstanding of DNA evidence

Snip
My instinct, based on years of policing similar cases, is that we are looking at an abduction where the child was targeted in the days before her disappearance.

On the night she vanished it is likely that her abductor simply spotted his opportunity and struck while he could.

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing.  I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.

There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever.  To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.

In the past, when I have dealt with traces of bodily fluids, it is very difficult to establish how they got to be where they were.

All DNA is highly transferable and that is the most likely explanation for the alleged traces found in the McCanns' hire car and on her mother's clothing.  Robert Murat, the other suspect, was seen close to the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared and freely admits having helped police as a translator.

If he was in that apartment, or anywhere near it, there is no doubt he would have transferred some of Madeleine's or the twins' DNA on to his clothing.

I don't believe for one minute that Kate and Gerry McCann or their friends are capable or guilty of having murdered the four-year-old.

All the criticism of Kate and Gerry and their friends has been completely out of order.
  They are extremely intelligent and articulate people and, just because they have never visibly cracked in public to the extent that they are beaten, does not mean that they are guilty of anything sinister.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 04:29:12 PM
The same as if she is alive,proof,Rowley assistant commissioner to the MET no less, said they have no evidence to show if she (Madeleine)is alive or dead,meaning they haven't a clue.

Of course they have more than a clue....you are simply taking quotes out of context and making your own inferences.....there is evidence of both scenarios
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 04:29:48 PM
There is not a scintilla of proof according to Rowley to support she is alive, so should that not be discussed either.

Cite...rowley doesnt use the word proof
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
The ever unanswerable question.  So carry on speculating.  Some of us hope and some us do not.


It has nothing to do with hope imo ....just common sense...

or even .....abduction .no abduction...

Hope in my opinion .can cloud judgment....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 04:50:04 PM
John Stalker is in no doubt that Madeleine was abducted based on his experience.

Despite apparently being in ignorance at the time, of the Portuguese secrecy laws which prevented Kate and Gerry and their friends from talking about the case, John Stalker had the following to say about the investigation and the ineptitude of the Portuguese police in employing basic policing procedures.
He is in particular scathing about the mishandling and misunderstanding of DNA evidence

Snip
My instinct, based on years of policing similar cases, is that we are looking at an abduction where the child was targeted in the days before her disappearance.

On the night she vanished it is likely that her abductor simply spotted his opportunity and struck while he could.

I have been horrified by the abject failure of the Portuguese detectives to adhere to basic principles of policing.

The investigation does not seem to have taken a step forward from where it was in the first week after she went missing.  I cannot believe that the Portuguese only sent selected DNA samples to the forensic science lab in Birmingham.

There is absolutely no sense in that whatsoever.  To fully evaluate poor-quality DNA traces, as we believe these were, forensic experts need to see the whole picture.

In the past, when I have dealt with traces of bodily fluids, it is very difficult to establish how they got to be where they were.

All DNA is highly transferable and that is the most likely explanation for the alleged traces found in the McCanns' hire car and on her mother's clothing.  Robert Murat, the other suspect, was seen close to the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared and freely admits having helped police as a translator.

If he was in that apartment, or anywhere near it, there is no doubt he would have transferred some of Madeleine's or the twins' DNA on to his clothing.

I don't believe for one minute that Kate and Gerry McCann or their friends are capable or guilty of having murdered the four-year-old.

All the criticism of Kate and Gerry and their friends has been completely out of order.
  They are extremely intelligent and articulate people and, just because they have never visibly cracked in public to the extent that they are beaten, does not mean that they are guilty of anything sinister.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/6oct7/EXPRESS-28-10-07.htm

Oh lol .......how many gut/instincts has he got....


seems a bit of an attention seeker...imo


McCanns 'are hiding a big secret', former police chief claims
Last updated at 14:34 28 October 2007


Kate and Gerry McCann are hiding a "big secret" about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, according a former police chief claims.
John Stalker, who headed a famous inquiry into whether suspected IRA men were killed by RUC officers, is suspicious of their silence.

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The former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police told the Sunday Express: “My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.

“I have watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.

“One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group – the Tapas Nine – remained so silent?

“Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other.

“After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.

“I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth. There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about”

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 04:50:27 PM

It has nothing to do with hope imo ....just common sense...

or even .....abduction .no abduction...

Hope in my opinion .can cloud judgment....

First I have common sense in abundance.  And then I have hope.  It has been a long time.  Hope has never clouded my judgement.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 04:51:27 PM

It has nothing to do with hope imo ....just common sense...

or even .....abduction .no abduction...

Hope in my opinion .can cloud judgment....

In my opinion hoping for the best for others does no harm ... hoping for the worst for others, is a disturbing trait in the human nature of some.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 04:57:46 PM
In my opinion hoping for the best for others does no harm ... hoping for the worst for others, is a disturbing trait in the human nature of some.

Very sad but very true.  It is completely beyond me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 05:00:19 PM
Oh lol .......how many gut/instincts has he got....


seems a bit of an attention seeker...imo


McCanns 'are hiding a big secret', former police chief claims
Last updated at 14:34 28 October 2007


Kate and Gerry McCann are hiding a "big secret" about the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, according a former police chief claims.
John Stalker, who headed a famous inquiry into whether suspected IRA men were killed by RUC officers, is suspicious of their silence.

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Scroll down for more...


The former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police told the Sunday Express: “My gut instinct is that some big secret is probably being covered up.

“I have watched the investigation into the Madeleine McCann case drag out for six months.

“One thing above all worries me: Why have the McCanns and the seven other members of their group – the Tapas Nine – remained so silent?

“Unlike other high-profile cases I have worked on, not one of them has been prepared to break ranks or really come out and support each other.

“After all this time and pressure, I cannot believe that nobody wants to speak.

“I have a real suspicion that we are not being told the whole truth. There is something else there, some issue that members of the party are embarrassed about”

You brought John Stalker into the equation without a true understanding of the opinions he held; just as John Stalker did not understand Portuguese judicial secrecy laws which prevented Kate and Gerry and anyone else connected to the live case speaking out.

Therefore his opinion was correct that something was preventing them from opening up; but it was wrong that it was anything to do with them ... it was the constraint of Portuguese law.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 05:08:18 PM
In my opinion hoping for the best for others does no harm ... hoping for the worst for others, is a disturbing trait in the human nature of some.


It's not a case of hoping for the worst....that is only a put down opinion by you

Its a case of I believe maddie was not abducted ...and mccs involved imo

A trait that thousands of well meaning caring people believe also...  ....

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 05:15:25 PM
You brought John Stalker into the equation without a true understanding of the opinions he held; just as John Stalker did not understand Portuguese judicial secrecy laws which prevented Kate and Gerry and anyone else connected to the live case speaking out.

Therefore his opinion was correct that something was preventing them from opening up; but it was wrong that it was anything to do with them ... it was the constraint of Portuguese law.

So much better than I could have said it.  I don't have your fineness.  A bit too rough and ready am I.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Eleanor on October 20, 2018, 05:16:58 PM

It's not a case of hoping for the worst....that is only a put down opinion by you

Its a case of I believe maddie was not abducted ...and mccs involved imo

A trait that thousands of well meaning caring people believe also...  ....

But you have no proof, so how can you do this?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 05:22:29 PM
In my opinion it is premature to discuss a theory of Mdeleine's death when not a scintilla of proof exists to support Amaral's conclusion that she is.
While IMO, discussing theories re Madeleine's death allows such theories to be evaluated/tested, and can lead to a greater understanding of what may have occurred.

The work I am doing on human body decomposition, and my Portelas Body Farm, investigates one potential theory.  And I already know a great deal more than when I started.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 05:34:14 PM
While IMO, discussing theories re Madeleine's death allows such theories to be evaluated/tested, and can lead to a greater understanding of what may have occurred.

The work I am doing on human body decomposition, and my Portelas Body Farm, investigates one potential theory.  And I already know a great deal more than when I started.

I did not know you had a human body farm.  How does that work?  Are you begging placentas and stealing milk teeth from the fairies? do the neighbours know?  Serious questions.

However I do not think it is for amateurs to be trying to evaluate the circumstances on the ground over eleven years after the event.
In my opinion all that should have been done t the time of Madeleine's disappearance ... and I think it was ... with no evidence found pointing to Madeleine's death.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 20, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
You may think the PJ didn't do a very food job, but you're not really qualified to judge, are you?
Who would be qualfied to judge on this then?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 05:42:28 PM
I did not know you had a human body farm.  How does that work?  Are you begging placentas and stealing milk teeth from the fairies? do the neighbours know?  Serious questions.

However I do not think it is for amateurs to be trying to evaluate the circumstances on the ground over eleven years after the event.
In my opinion all that should have been done t the time of Madeleine's disappearance ... and I think it was ... with no evidence found pointing to Madeleine's death.
I have a non-human Body Farm, so it is perfectly legal.

And I have already made clear that I think that evaluating options is a method of making progress.  Much better than leaving Unturned Stones.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 05:45:08 PM
I have a non-human Body Farm, so it is perfectly legal.

And I have already made clear that I think that evaluating options is a method of making progress.  Much better than leaving Unturned Stones.

I really doubt you have.. or will...make any progress whatsoever
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 20, 2018, 05:50:19 PM
Who would be qualfied to judge on this then?

Mark Harrison was an expert on searches. He was qualified.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 05:53:55 PM
I really doubt you have.. or will...make any progress whatsoever
Given that I have claimed I have already made progress, your post is either nonsense, or you are calling me a liar.

Which is it?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 20, 2018, 05:57:48 PM
Mark Harrison was an expert on searches. He was qualified.
Only him then?  No one else is qualified to give an opinion? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 20, 2018, 06:01:15 PM
The only instance I can find of Mark Harrison voicing an opinion of the searches he took part was n:



4. In this particular case, based on the information and on your experience, what is the possibility that a cadaver was occulted?
To this question I am not in possession of any information or sufficient knowledge to comment.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 06:01:31 PM
Given that I have claimed I have already made progress, your post is either nonsense, or you are calling me a liar.

Which is it?

neither you are mistaken..are you suggesting you have made progress when SY ...it is claimed ..have not...you have no more knowledge of what happened to maddie than anyone else on this forum
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 06:31:00 PM
neither you are mistaken..are you suggesting you have made progress when SY ...it is claimed ..have not...you have no more knowledge of what happened to maddie than anyone else on this forum
I have no interest in what you suggest is claimed about SY.

As to your second point, I think I do.   &^^&*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 06:36:45 PM
I have no interest in what you suggest is claimed about SY.

As to your second point, I think I do.   &^^&*

And I think you do not... I think you just think you do
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 06:41:31 PM
And I think you do not... I think you just think you do
With nothing to support your opinion, you are just goading.   &^^&*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
With nothing to support your opinion, you are just goading.   &^^&*

And you have nothing to support your belief... Not goading... Just giving opinion ...there's a whole group on CMOMM who think they have made progress..
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 20, 2018, 06:47:53 PM
And you have nothing to support your belief... Not goading... Just giving opinion ...there's a whole group on CMOMM who think they have made progress..

How do you know SIL hasn't made progress Davel? I don't as I don't know what he has none or what he may have achieved in the same.

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 06:53:20 PM
How do you know SIL hasn't made progress Davel? I don't as I don't know what he has none or what he may have achieved in the same.


I think it's a ridiculous  claim by sil... Absolutely  laughable...
Sil has supplied no evidence he has... Am I expected simply to accept it
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 20, 2018, 07:03:46 PM
I think it's a ridiculous  claim by sil... Absolutely  laughable...
Sil has supplied no evidence he has... Am I expected simply to accept it

We seem to be expected to accept other posters laughable and ridiculous claims with no evidence?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 07:05:23 PM
We seem to be expected to accept other posters laughable and ridiculous claims with no evidence?

So do you accept other posters claims with no evidence... I'm sure you do not..
So I cannot be criticised for not accepting sils
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 20, 2018, 07:16:09 PM
Nevertheless it is there and would be useful in distinguishing Madeleine from a thousand other blonde little girls you might happen to see and think “maybe that’s Madeleine “, so how can this be misleading?
It isn't  much according to her mother,certainly not as the public were led to believe in the red dress photo.
 Incidentally  would you personally have gone up to  every little blonde girl that you saw and look into her eyes?
 I think the parents would see you off quite frankly !   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 20, 2018, 07:24:41 PM
So do you accept other posters claims with no evidence... I'm sure you do not..
So I cannot be criticised for not accepting sils
I think until we know we have to wait.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 07:28:06 PM
I think until we know we have to wait.

I'm free to find it ridiculous.... You can wait if you wish

The idea that a member of the public will solve this case when SY have spent 12 million is a Tad foolish.. Imo
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 07:44:14 PM
I'm free to find it ridiculous.... You can wait if you wish

The idea that a member of the public will solve this case when SY have spent 12 million is a Tad foolish.. Imo


Not when SY ...have only looked one side of the coin...

IMO they are the foolish ones ..SY
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 08:01:37 PM

Not when SY ...have only looked one side of the coin...

IMO they are the foolish ones ..SY

I think they have looked at everything
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 20, 2018, 08:12:52 PM
It isn't  much according to her mother,certainly not as the public were led to believe in the red dress photo.
 Incidentally  would you personally have gone up to  every little blonde girl that you saw and look into her eyes?
 I think the parents would see you off quite frankly !
In the red dress photo the mark is very noticeable IMO, and no I would not have gone up to every single blonde girl, but if I’d spotted one that looked remarkably like Madeleine then I might have done yes.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 08:27:07 PM
I'm free to find it ridiculous.... You can wait if you wish

The idea that a member of the public will solve this case when SY have spent 12 million is a Tad foolish.. Imo
Which member of the public would that be?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
Which member of the public would that be?

As you claim to be making progress that would apply to you

Do you realy believe  you could solve the case... A, simple yes.. No... Will do
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 20, 2018, 08:59:26 PM
I think they have looked at everything


So what do you think they are looking at now.....

Don't forget they only had a couple at a desk..give or take two...

barely paid their wages IMO..the amount they had...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 20, 2018, 09:03:22 PM
As you claim to be making progress that would apply to you

Do you realy believe  you could solve the case... A, simple yes.. No... Will do
I have already answered that question, and my position has not changed since then.   ?{)(**
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 20, 2018, 09:12:14 PM
I have already answered that question, and my position has not changed since then.   ?{)(**

It hasn't.. And neither has mine... I find your claims ridiculous
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 20, 2018, 09:55:38 PM
Which member of the public would that be?
I thought he was talking about me.  But I tend to paranoia like that.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 20, 2018, 11:51:50 PM
In the red dress photo the mark is very noticeable IMO, and no I would not have gone up to every single blonde girl, but if I’d spotted one that looked remarkably like Madeleine then I might have done yes.
We are in agreement ,very noticeable , but when I pointed  out that the mark was heavily emphasised in the red dress photo to explain me saying the public were misled by it , my post was edited .
 Parents who had a child similar looking ,even remarkably so to Madeleine would have been affronted I'm sure and asked you to explain yourself had you chosen to approach their daughter and  given the excuse that you thought  she could be Madeleine  McCann . Just what would that be insinuating ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 20, 2018, 11:57:18 PM
We are in agreement ,very noticeable , but when I pointed  out that the mark was heavily emphasised in the red dress photo to explain me saying the public were misled by it , my post was edited .
 Parents who had a child similar looking ,even remarkably so to Madeleine would have been affronted I'm sure and asked you to explain yourself had you chosen to approach their daughter and  given the excuse that you thought  she could be Madeleine  McCann . Just what would that be insinuating ?

What is it that members do not understand about posting ON TOPIC?  In what way does this post tie in with the topic of this thread?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 21, 2018, 12:11:21 AM
We are in agreement ,very noticeable , but when I pointed  out that the mark was heavily emphasised in the red dress photo to explain me saying the public were misled by it , my post was edited .
 Parents who had a child similar looking ,even remarkably so to Madeleine would have been affronted I'm sure and asked you to explain yourself had you chosen to approach their daughter and  given the excuse that you thought  she could be Madeleine  McCann . Just what would that be insinuating ?
I don’t understand your first point and as for your second you seem to be suggesting that it is wrong to ask the public to keep a look out for any missing child (eye defect or not) in case it upsets the adults accompanying a child who may resemble the one missing, or have I misunderstood you?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 21, 2018, 12:21:25 AM
I don’t understand your first point and as for your second you seem to be suggesting that it is wrong to ask the public to keep a look out for any missing child (eye defect or not) in case it upsets the adults accompanying a child who may resemble the one missing, or have I misunderstood you?
Ive been questioned by Brietta on what my previous post has to do with the topic VS ,so I'll skip answering if you don't mind .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 21, 2018, 01:09:42 AM
As a matter of interest, what evidence would there be that Madeleine is alive?  Evidence in the public domain, of course.

The only evidence I have seen is Sadie's alleged sighting in 2012.  As she is not sharing, it is impossible to evaluate this.

So where else would Maddie turn up?

Mayhap her optician would notice a small blemish in her right eye?  Not so far, it seems.

The only other likely source I can think of is amongst a paedophile's stash of photos.  I haven't kept count, but these must be in the hundreds of thousands since Madeleine disappeared, with not a hint that she appears.

By definition, any solid identification of Madeleine would lead to her retrieval.  But this has not happened.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 21, 2018, 01:24:23 AM
What is it that members do not understand about posting ON TOPIC?  In what way does this post tie in with the topic of this thread?
At the time any positive sighting would be the best proof Madeleine was alive.  12 years later it would be a whole lot more difficult to identify her but presumably she still has the defect in her eye.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 21, 2018, 01:27:57 AM
As a matter of interest, what evidence would there be that Madeleine is alive?  Evidence in the public domain, of course.

The only evidence I have seen is Sadie's alleged sighting in 2012.  As she is not sharing, it is impossible to evaluate this.

So where else would Maddie turn up?

Mayhap her optician would notice a small blemish in her right eye?  Not so far, it seems.

The only other likely source I can think of is amongst a paedophile's stash of photos.  I haven't kept count, but these must be in the hundreds of thousands since Madeleine disappeared, with not a hint that she appears.

By definition, any solid identification of Madeleine would lead to her retrieval.  But this has not happened.
There have been other "sightings" but who were they reported to?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2018, 01:42:16 AM
As a matter of interest, what evidence would there be that Madeleine is alive?  Evidence in the public domain, of course.

The only evidence I have seen is Sadie's alleged sighting in 2012.  As she is not sharing, it is impossible to evaluate this.

So where else would Maddie turn up?

Mayhap her optician would notice a small blemish in her right eye?  Not so far, it seems.

The only other likely source I can think of is amongst a paedophile's stash of photos.  I haven't kept count, but these must be in the hundreds of thousands since Madeleine disappeared, with not a hint that she appears.

By definition, any solid identification of Madeleine would lead to her retrieval.  But this has not happened.

It might take only one person with a conscience to come forward as happened some years ago. 

Were we ever told what came of this arrest?

If not ... might it be something Scotland Yard could still be working on?


Madeleine McCann: British man arrested in the hunt for missing girl
Suspect held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago
BySimon Wright
08:48, 13 OCT 2013

The dramatic arrest of a Brit in the hunt for Madeleine McCann has been described as “potentially highly significant”.

It has boosted the hopes of the missing youngster’s anguished parents Kate and Gerry.

A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

The suspect was held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror last week revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago.

A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.

It is understood that the Manchester officers who made the arrest also seized computers from a private address and sent them for forensic examination.

Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange team have been handed the barrister’s detailed statement, which is rated as “high up on the credibility scale”.

The Yard officers had reopened the probe into the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, from the McCanns’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.

The dramatic twist in the inquiry comes as Kate and Gerry, both 45, prepare to appear in a Crimewatch appeal on BBC1 tomorrow night.

It is understood they are being kept fully briefed on developments.

We told last week how the barrister went to police after being told of the Maddie sighting.

Tourist resorts popular with Brits are now thought to feature in the active inquiry. A family source confirmed last night: “This is high up on the credibility scale.

"The barrister did the right thing by going to police. His information has gone into the Operation Grange system and I know they are working on it.

“The fact that he was prepared to risk his reputation by making the statement does suggest that it is credible. There are tip-offs and sightings all the time and many of them can be ruled out immediately as either complete fantasy or because there is no credibility to the source.

“This one is more credible because of the nature of the man who brought it to the authorities’ attention.”

The Sunday Mirror can reveal that the arrested man was at a party attended by the barrister at a private home in an upmarket suburb of Manchester on August 17.

During the evening, the lawyer had a conversation with the man, who told him he had met Madeleine on the island in the Med this summer.

The barrister, shocked and distressed by what the man said about the alleged encounter, contacted his local police force the next day then gave a formal statement.

The barrister, who agreed to speak to us but who we are not naming at his request, refused to comment further on the arrest.

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.”

But a separate source close to the arrest said: “A guy at the party told the barrister he had been introduced to Madeleine on the island in the summer.

“The barrister took that to mean that she was with another adult at the time but doesn’t know who it was or anything about them.”

 It is unclear whether the barrister was able to give officers the name of the man he spoke to at the party.

Police have not released any details about the man they have arrested.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said in a statement: “A man was arrested in September on suspicion of possession of drugs and conspiracy to distribute indecent images of children. He has been bailed pending further inquiries. An investigation is ongoing into this matter and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

Last week we revealed how the barrister broke down in tears as he explained what he had been told.

Speaking to us as he walked his dog in a park near his large home in the North West of England, he said: “I can’t tell you exactly why I believe what I was being told. It was just a gut feeling.

"I knew that by reporting it, it would compromise me in all sorts of ways.

“But it was something I couldn’t ignore. If I hadn’t said anything I couldn’t have lived with myself.”

Asked what it was about the ­description the man at the party gave him of the girl he said was Madeleine, the barrister said: “I have told the police everything that I was told about her. They know what that was and that is why they have acted.”

Meanwhile Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leics, are set to speak of their hope that their daughter will be found finally thanks to new evidence uncovered by a UK police probe.

Former GP Kate and consultant ­cardiologist Gerry will appear live on BBC1’s Crimewatch at 9pm tomorrow.

Detectives will appeal for help in solving the six-year mystery of what happened in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was on holiday with her parents and younger twin siblings.

The programme will feature a new reconstruction of events, with Madeleine played by a three-year-old girl.

The programme will also be screened in Holland and Germany.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 21, 2018, 02:01:22 AM
It never ceases to amaze how some supporters still cling to the illusion that SY are actively pursuing actual leads in the hunt for Maddie when clearly all they are undertaking now is mopping up and a damage limitation exercise. The clues ran out long ago as did the funding.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: misty on October 21, 2018, 02:31:41 AM
It never ceases to amaze how some supporters still cling to the illusion that SY are actively pursuing actual leads in the hunt for Maddie when clearly all they are undertaking now is mopping up and a damage limitation exercise. The clues ran out long ago as did the funding.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11371p275-met-police-operation-grange-bollocks-or-not-bollocks#392418
snipped
This was the response as of 16th October 2018:
"Following on from my email yesterday, I have received the following in order to address your query:
 
The MPS can confirm that Operation Grange is still being worked by four full time officers under DCI Nicola Wall – those officers are not investigating other cases.
 
As explained before, the questions about the remit will be dealt with as a new request and you will hear shortly.
 
I hope this answers your question.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 21, 2018, 05:13:41 AM
That is surprising for I thought they had cut the number down to one full time detective last time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 21, 2018, 07:58:19 AM
It might take only one person with a conscience to come forward as happened some years ago. 

Were we ever told what came of this arrest?

If not ... might it be something Scotland Yard could still be working on?


Madeleine McCann: British man arrested in the hunt for missing girl
Suspect held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago
BySimon Wright
08:48, 13 OCT 2013

The dramatic arrest of a Brit in the hunt for Madeleine McCann has been described as “potentially highly significant”.

It has boosted the hopes of the missing youngster’s anguished parents Kate and Gerry.

A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

The suspect was held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror last week revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago.

A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.

It is understood that the Manchester officers who made the arrest also seized computers from a private address and sent them for forensic examination.

Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange team have been handed the barrister’s detailed statement, which is rated as “high up on the credibility scale”.

The Yard officers had reopened the probe into the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, from the McCanns’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.

The dramatic twist in the inquiry comes as Kate and Gerry, both 45, prepare to appear in a Crimewatch appeal on BBC1 tomorrow night.

It is understood they are being kept fully briefed on developments.

We told last week how the barrister went to police after being told of the Maddie sighting.

Tourist resorts popular with Brits are now thought to feature in the active inquiry. A family source confirmed last night: “This is high up on the credibility scale.

"The barrister did the right thing by going to police. His information has gone into the Operation Grange system and I know they are working on it.

“The fact that he was prepared to risk his reputation by making the statement does suggest that it is credible. There are tip-offs and sightings all the time and many of them can be ruled out immediately as either complete fantasy or because there is no credibility to the source.

“This one is more credible because of the nature of the man who brought it to the authorities’ attention.”

The Sunday Mirror can reveal that the arrested man was at a party attended by the barrister at a private home in an upmarket suburb of Manchester on August 17.

During the evening, the lawyer had a conversation with the man, who told him he had met Madeleine on the island in the Med this summer.

The barrister, shocked and distressed by what the man said about the alleged encounter, contacted his local police force the next day then gave a formal statement.

The barrister, who agreed to speak to us but who we are not naming at his request, refused to comment further on the arrest.

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.”

But a separate source close to the arrest said: “A guy at the party told the barrister he had been introduced to Madeleine on the island in the summer.

“The barrister took that to mean that she was with another adult at the time but doesn’t know who it was or anything about them.”

 It is unclear whether the barrister was able to give officers the name of the man he spoke to at the party.

Police have not released any details about the man they have arrested.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said in a statement: “A man was arrested in September on suspicion of possession of drugs and conspiracy to distribute indecent images of children. He has been bailed pending further inquiries. An investigation is ongoing into this matter and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

Last week we revealed how the barrister broke down in tears as he explained what he had been told.

Speaking to us as he walked his dog in a park near his large home in the North West of England, he said: “I can’t tell you exactly why I believe what I was being told. It was just a gut feeling.

"I knew that by reporting it, it would compromise me in all sorts of ways.

“But it was something I couldn’t ignore. If I hadn’t said anything I couldn’t have lived with myself.”

Asked what it was about the ­description the man at the party gave him of the girl he said was Madeleine, the barrister said: “I have told the police everything that I was told about her. They know what that was and that is why they have acted.”

Meanwhile Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leics, are set to speak of their hope that their daughter will be found finally thanks to new evidence uncovered by a UK police probe.

Former GP Kate and consultant ­cardiologist Gerry will appear live on BBC1’s Crimewatch at 9pm tomorrow.

Detectives will appeal for help in solving the six-year mystery of what happened in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was on holiday with her parents and younger twin siblings.

The programme will feature a new reconstruction of events, with Madeleine played by a three-year-old girl.

The programme will also be screened in Holland and Germany.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183


Speaking to us as he walked his dog in a park near his large home in the North West of England, he said: “I can’t tell you exactly why I believe what I was being told. It was just a gut feeling.

Ah, there is that gut feeling again.....

you choose to C/P this ...what imo seems like nonsense...

you don't even know the outcome...

yet you would rather ignore..... the gut feelings of officers on the case....

That the mccs were involved in the disappearance of maddie....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 21, 2018, 08:02:16 AM


Ah, there is that gut feeling again.....

you choose to C/P this ...what imo seems like nonsense...

you don't even know the outcome...

yet you would rather ignore..... the gut feelings of officers on the case....

That the mccs were involved in the disappearance of maddie....

The officers who did not understand  the evidence and two of whom were eventually  convicted for their involvement  in cases of torture..... The present police forces have, stated their, support for the McCann's not being involved
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 21, 2018, 08:18:43 AM
The officers who did not understand  the evidence and two of whom were eventually  convicted for their involvement  in cases of torture..... The present police forces have, stated their, support for the McCann's not being involved


So you keep saying......

lol .is that there gut feeling then ......

as that must be the case ....

because they have never investigated it from the beginning ...

bit like baking a cake ...and leaving out the flour ...it will never work

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 21, 2018, 08:22:44 AM

So you keep saying......

lol .is that there gut feeling then ......

as that must be the case ....

because they have never investigated it from the beginning ...

bit like baking a cake ...and leaving out the flour ...it will never work
I don't agree... I think they have looked at all possibilities.. Again we won't agree so pointless, arguing
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 21, 2018, 08:25:01 AM
I don't agree... I think they have looked at all possibilities.. Again we won't agree so pointless, arguing


who's arguing ...twice you have said that...

It is just different opinions...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 21, 2018, 08:26:51 AM

who's arguing ...twice you have said that...

It is just different opinions...

That's right... And it's pointless arguing over them... It's, al been done and we wont agree
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2018, 09:16:34 AM

Speaking to us as he walked his dog in a park near his large home in the North West of England, he said: “I can’t tell you exactly why I believe what I was being told. It was just a gut feeling.

Ah, there is that gut feeling again.....

you choose to C/P this ...what imo seems like nonsense...

you don't even know the outcome...

yet you would rather ignore..... the gut feelings of officers on the case....

That the mccs were involved in the disappearance of maddie....
There was much more to that report than "gut feeling" and the fact that I do not know the outcome of this man's arrest has a significance I think if no-one else knows either.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 21, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
There was much more to that report than "gut feeling" and the fact that I do not know the outcome of this man's arrest has a significance I think if no-one else knows either.
  • A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.
  • "I knew that by reporting it, it would compromise me in all sorts of ways.
  • “The fact that he was prepared to risk his reputation by making the statement does suggest that it is credible.
  • the barrister said: “I have told the police everything that I was told about her. They know what that was and that is why they have acted.”
  • A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

well obviously...it went nowhere ...

a family source said it was high on the credible list ...so why report it...



the vibes coming from this...is the man obviously liked children...

without going further...into it computers removed etc..

so why was he associating with him... imo god knows what the party was he was attending

don't think just because he was a barrister....that makes him credible....it doesn't

IMO ...I think it sounds like it could easily have been an act of revenge....

don't read the story .....read between the lines....

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.

why did he take this to a newspaper then......
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 21, 2018, 10:45:49 AM
well obviously...it went nowhere ...

a family sauce said it was high on the credible list ...so why report it...



the vibes coming from this...is the man obviously liked children...

without going further...into it computers removed etc..

so why was he associating with him... imo god knows what the party was he was attending

don't think just because he was a barrister....that makes him credible....it doesn't

IMO ...I think it sounds like it could easily have been an act of revenge....

don't read the story .....read between the lines....

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.

why did he take this to a newspaper then......


Of course no remuneration would be expected.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 21, 2018, 11:44:29 AM

Of course no remuneration would be expected.


lol......seems he was just doing the honorable thing...as if

how far would he have got I wonder ...if he had said maddie was no longer alive.....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 21, 2018, 03:20:08 PM
It might take only one person with a conscience to come forward as happened some years ago. 

Were we ever told what came of this arrest?

If not ... might it be something Scotland Yard could still be working on?


Madeleine McCann: British man arrested in the hunt for missing girl
Suspect held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago
BySimon Wright
08:48, 13 OCT 2013

The dramatic arrest of a Brit in the hunt for Madeleine McCann has been described as “potentially highly significant”.

It has boosted the hopes of the missing youngster’s anguished parents Kate and Gerry.

A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

The suspect was held in a swoop by Greater Manchester Police after the Sunday Mirror last week revealed that a man bragged about seeing Madeleine alive just weeks ago.

A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.

It is understood that the Manchester officers who made the arrest also seized computers from a private address and sent them for forensic examination.

Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange team have been handed the barrister’s detailed statement, which is rated as “high up on the credibility scale”.

The Yard officers had reopened the probe into the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, from the McCanns’ holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.

The dramatic twist in the inquiry comes as Kate and Gerry, both 45, prepare to appear in a Crimewatch appeal on BBC1 tomorrow night.

It is understood they are being kept fully briefed on developments.

We told last week how the barrister went to police after being told of the Maddie sighting.

Tourist resorts popular with Brits are now thought to feature in the active inquiry. A family source confirmed last night: “This is high up on the credibility scale.

"The barrister did the right thing by going to police. His information has gone into the Operation Grange system and I know they are working on it.

“The fact that he was prepared to risk his reputation by making the statement does suggest that it is credible. There are tip-offs and sightings all the time and many of them can be ruled out immediately as either complete fantasy or because there is no credibility to the source.

“This one is more credible because of the nature of the man who brought it to the authorities’ attention.”

The Sunday Mirror can reveal that the arrested man was at a party attended by the barrister at a private home in an upmarket suburb of Manchester on August 17.

During the evening, the lawyer had a conversation with the man, who told him he had met Madeleine on the island in the Med this summer.

The barrister, shocked and distressed by what the man said about the alleged encounter, contacted his local police force the next day then gave a formal statement.

The barrister, who agreed to speak to us but who we are not naming at his request, refused to comment further on the arrest.

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.”

But a separate source close to the arrest said: “A guy at the party told the barrister he had been introduced to Madeleine on the island in the summer.

“The barrister took that to mean that she was with another adult at the time but doesn’t know who it was or anything about them.”

 It is unclear whether the barrister was able to give officers the name of the man he spoke to at the party.

Police have not released any details about the man they have arrested.

A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said in a statement: “A man was arrested in September on suspicion of possession of drugs and conspiracy to distribute indecent images of children. He has been bailed pending further inquiries. An investigation is ongoing into this matter and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

Last week we revealed how the barrister broke down in tears as he explained what he had been told.

Speaking to us as he walked his dog in a park near his large home in the North West of England, he said: “I can’t tell you exactly why I believe what I was being told. It was just a gut feeling.

"I knew that by reporting it, it would compromise me in all sorts of ways.

“But it was something I couldn’t ignore. If I hadn’t said anything I couldn’t have lived with myself.”

Asked what it was about the ­description the man at the party gave him of the girl he said was Madeleine, the barrister said: “I have told the police everything that I was told about her. They know what that was and that is why they have acted.”

Meanwhile Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leics, are set to speak of their hope that their daughter will be found finally thanks to new evidence uncovered by a UK police probe.

Former GP Kate and consultant ­cardiologist Gerry will appear live on BBC1’s Crimewatch at 9pm tomorrow.

Detectives will appeal for help in solving the six-year mystery of what happened in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was on holiday with her parents and younger twin siblings.

The programme will feature a new reconstruction of events, with Madeleine played by a three-year-old girl.

The programme will also be screened in Holland and Germany.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-british-man-arrested-2366183



 Greater Manchester Police have 'categorically' denied any link between the arrest and Madeleine, saying it had 'nothing to do' with the continuing investigation into the youngster's whereabouts.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-deny-manchester-man-held-6180591
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 21, 2018, 03:30:32 PM


 Greater Manchester Police have 'categorically' denied any link between the arrest and Madeleine, saying it had 'nothing to do' with the continuing investigation into the youngster's whereabouts.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-deny-manchester-man-held-6180591
Ah, now but hang on... maybe the police are only saying that to throw us all off the scent, you know what these police people are like - say one thing but mean the opposite.   8(>((
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2018, 03:58:51 PM
well obviously...it went nowhere ...

a family source said it was high on the credible list ...so why report it...



the vibes coming from this...is the man obviously liked children...

without going further...into it computers removed etc..

so why was he associating with him... imo god knows what the party was he was attending

don't think just because he was a barrister....that makes him credible....it doesn't

IMO ...I think it sounds like it could easily have been an act of revenge....

don't read the story .....read between the lines....

He explained: “I cannot risk compromising the investigation or the search for Madeleine. If she is alive but now ­disappears again, I would never be able to forgive myself.

why did he take this to a newspaper then......

How do you know it went nowhere?

How do you know it ... or something very similar ... isn't still a serious line of inquiry?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 21, 2018, 07:20:23 PM
There was much more to that report than "gut feeling" and the fact that I do not know the outcome of this man's arrest has a significance I think if no-one else knows either.
  • A respected barrister told us the man boasted to him that he had met the child on a Mediterranean island. It was claimed Maddie was “introduced” to the man this summer.
  • "I knew that by reporting it, it would compromise me in all sorts of ways.
  • “The fact that he was prepared to risk his reputation by making the statement does suggest that it is credible.
  • the barrister said: “I have told the police everything that I was told about her. They know what that was and that is why they have acted.”
  • A source close to the couple said: “The arrest only happened as a result of a claim that Madeleine may still be alive.”

Does the barrister have a name or was it a misinterpretation of "A respected barista"
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 21, 2018, 10:36:06 PM
It never ceases to amaze how some supporters still cling to the illusion that SY are actively pursuing actual leads in the hunt for Maddie when clearly all they are undertaking now is mopping up and a damage limitation exercise. The clues ran out long ago as did the funding.

In Your Opinion, Angelo


Not mine.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: misty on October 21, 2018, 11:13:03 PM
The one sighting which makes me believe Madeleine could still be alive is Paraguay, 2016. It is the only occasion a member of Interpol has openly referred to a kidnapper & the actions of the PI potentially endangering Madeleine's life.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/investigator-who-claimed-madeleine-mccann-7531460
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 22, 2018, 12:22:38 AM
The one sighting which makes me believe Madeleine could still be alive is Paraguay, 2016. It is the only occasion a member of Interpol has openly referred to a kidnapper & the actions of the PI potentially endangering Madeleine's life.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/investigator-who-claimed-madeleine-mccann-7531460

There are other reasons why this sighting interests me too. 

But I dont have enough to take my reasons further to SY
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 22, 2018, 08:10:40 AM


 Greater Manchester Police have 'categorically' denied any link between the arrest and Madeleine, saying it had 'nothing to do' with the continuing investigation into the youngster's whereabouts.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-deny-manchester-man-held-6180591


Could be she is being moved around,  by the time the police get to one spot she has gone to another.

There is no proof that Madeleine is dead,    there has been no body found,   the dogs found no body.   The DNA results found no evidence that Madeleine had died in 5a.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 22, 2018, 08:17:31 AM
The one sighting which makes me believe Madeleine could still be alive is Paraguay, 2016. It is the only occasion a member of Interpol has openly referred to a kidnapper & the actions of the PI potentially endangering Madeleine's life.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/investigator-who-claimed-madeleine-mccann-7531460

It sounds like a publicity stunt to me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 22, 2018, 10:03:04 AM

Could be she is being moved around,  by the time the police get to one spot she has gone to another.

There is no proof that Madeleine is dead,    there has been no body found,   the dogs found no body.   The DNA results found no evidence that Madeleine had died in 5a.

Oh lol...... a fat lot of good they are doing sat at a desk in London

is this how it goes...ring ring ...we have seen maddie ...

Oh ok, we will just let media know....and be right there...

Oh no .....she has been moved again....


There is no evidence....or credibility in the 6 year search that maddie is alive....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 22, 2018, 11:03:47 AM
Oh lol...... a fat lot of good they are doing sat at a desk in London

is this how it goes...ring ring ...we have seen maddie ...

Oh ok, we will just let media know....and be right there...

Oh no .....she has been moved again....


There is no evidence....or credibility in the 6 year search that maddie is alive....

What makes Madeleine so special that to keep her, she would have to be constantly moved around. It doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 22, 2018, 11:06:53 AM
What makes Madeleine so special that to keep her, she would have to be constantly moved around. It doesn't make sense to me.
It was only a suggestion IMO.  And an excuse for her not being found after a sighting.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 22, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
I am reviewing everything that was posted yesterday following several complaints. Inappropriate posting of any sort will not be tolerated and especially so given the number of warnings that have a already been given. Sanctions and/or suspensions could well follow.

Members are free to make representation in defence of themselves or others.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 22, 2018, 11:23:32 AM
It was only a suggestion IMO.  And an excuse for her not being found after a sighting.

Of course I understand that it was Lace's opinion Rob.   My question was simply WHY, what makes Madeleine so special that Lace thinks she would be moved around constantly to avoid detection.   
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 22, 2018, 02:08:22 PM
Could we stay on topic please.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 22, 2018, 05:33:21 PM
How do you know it went nowhere?

How do you know it ... or something very similar ... isn't still a serious line of inquiry?

Because I read G-Unit link .....didn't you.....

The man was not very desirable was he ....and the barrister at the same party ...say no more...

seems they show ...the efits a couple of times as well....that were sat on for a few years



ByPaul Britton
00:01, 14 OCT 2013UPDATED08:26, 14 OCT 2013
NEWS



Madeleine McCann, left, and the two efit images of the suspect issued by the Metropolitan Police believed by detectives to be of the same man seen in the Portuguese town of Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance


Police have denied that a Manchester man was arrested in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The man reportedly made claims at a house party in Manchester that he had seen missing Madeleine earlier this summer.


It was claimed that he was arrested over the alleged comments after a report from a witness, a barrister, who heard him.

But Greater Manchester Police have 'categorically' denied any link between the arrest and Madeleine, saying it had 'nothing to do' with the continuing investigation into the youngster's whereabouts.

A GMP spokesman told the M.E.N.: “I can categorically say that no one has been arrested as part of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

“It has nothing to do with Madeleine McCann, that's all I can say.”

A police statement issued over the reports said a man was arrested in September on suspicion of possession of drugs and conspiracy to distribute indecent images of children. The man, who has not been named, was later released on police bail pending further investigation. Police made no further comment.


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-deny-manchester-man-held-6180591
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 22, 2018, 06:47:12 PM
Of course I understand that it was Lace's opinion Rob.   My question was simply WHY, what makes Madeleine so special that Lace thinks she would be moved around constantly to avoid detection.   

I think she was moved around quite a bit in the early days but then lived a settled, but hidden from view, existence for several years on a Mediterranean island

All in my opinion.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 22, 2018, 07:48:01 PM
I think she was moved around quite a bit in the early days but then lived a settled, but hidden from view, existence for several years on a Mediterranean island

All in my opinion.

If that is what you like to think.... it is only your opinion....


IMO ..... maddie never left portugal....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 22, 2018, 09:13:01 PM
If that is what you like to think.... it is only your opinion....


IMO ..... maddie never left portugal....

If that is what you like to think.... that's OK by me.

Do you have any pointers or evidence?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: xtina on October 22, 2018, 09:34:45 PM
If that is what you like to think.... that's OK by me.

Do you have any pointers or evidence?

Do you have any pointers or evidence?


Like what..........

all we have on here sadie ...are our opinions....
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 22, 2018, 09:45:50 PM
Do you have any pointers or evidence?


Like what..........

all we have on here sadie ...are our opinions....
We also have our observations, and the results to our studies.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 23, 2018, 12:35:59 AM
We also have our observations, and the results to our studies.

Exactly.

Thank you Rob.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 23, 2018, 06:38:27 AM
If that is what you like to think.... that's OK by me.

Do you have any pointers or evidence?

I expect there's loads.............but it can't be shared  $*6%
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 23, 2018, 12:03:37 PM
I expect there's loads.............but it can't be shared  $*6%

Good one Gunit

 (&^&

Made me laugh !
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 23, 2018, 12:14:21 PM
If that is what you like to think.... that's OK by me.

Do you have any pointers or evidence?

The question still stands for xtina and her conviction that Madeleine never left Portugal.

Xtina, do you have any pointers or evidence to say that, or is it just a gut feeling?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 23, 2018, 01:18:06 PM
The question still stands for xtina and her conviction that Madeleine never left Portugal.

Xtina, do you have any pointers or evidence to say that, or is it just a gut feeling?

Why not ask Dave Edgar the same thing. He says he thinks Madeleine is still in Portugal

https://closeronline.co.uk/real-life/news/madeleine-mccann-detective-dave-edgar-algarve-portugal-alive/
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 23, 2018, 01:32:49 PM
The question still stands for xtina and her conviction that Madeleine never left Portugal.

Xtina, do you have any pointers or evidence to say that, or is it just a gut feeling?

Redwood's last throw of the dice would indicate that he too believed that she never left Portugal and was buried somewhere nearby. Had he been given more time and resources he might well have found her.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 23, 2018, 01:49:39 PM
Why not ask Dave Edgar the same thing. He says he thinks Madeleine is still in Portugal

https://closeronline.co.uk/real-life/news/madeleine-mccann-detective-dave-edgar-algarve-portugal-alive/

He believes, I think, alive and not so well in that lawless hinterland to the north of the Algarve.
Was that before or after embarcation on a yacht in Spain one wonders?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 23, 2018, 02:06:37 PM
He believes, I think, alive and not so well in that lawless hinterland to the north of the Algarve.
Was that before or after embarkation on a yacht in Spain one wonders?

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary it is always possible that Madeleine was secreted away and has been hidden somewhere ever since. Certainly events in the US and Germany over the last few years shows us that such a thing is possible but ultimately comes to an end.  It has been eleven years since Madeleine disappeared so if she is ever to reappear it must be soon.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 23, 2018, 03:56:52 PM
In the absence of any evidence to the contrary it is always possible that Madeleine was secreted away and has been hidden somewhere ever since. Certainly events in the US and Germany over the last few years shows us that such a thing is possible but ultimately comes to an end.  It has been eleven years since Madeleine disappeared so if she is ever to reappear it must be soon.

I agree but we always come back to the notty little problem of how did she leave the apartment? and was the apartment locked or unlocked?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 23, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
I agree but we always come back to the notty little problem of how did she leave the apartment? and was the apartment locked or unlocked?
She was taken from an unlocked apartment.  Problem solved.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 23, 2018, 08:38:00 PM
She was taken from an unlocked apartment.  Problem solved.

Really?
So what's with the original statements suggesting a locked apartment and a break in?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 23, 2018, 09:30:45 PM
Why not ask Dave Edgar the same thing. He says he thinks Madeleine is still in Portugal

https://closeronline.co.uk/real-life/news/madeleine-mccann-detective-dave-edgar-algarve-portugal-alive/

I am asking Xtina.  She is capable of answering, I am sure
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 23, 2018, 09:30:55 PM
Really?
So what's with the original statements suggesting a locked apartment and a break in?

Can you point us to the original transcripts of the statements to which you refer?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 23, 2018, 09:52:26 PM
Can you point us to the original transcripts of the statements to which you refer?

I doubt it, are you sure "transcripts" was the correct word you were seeking anyway?
You still fail to understand how I play this game.
 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 23, 2018, 10:02:26 PM
I doubt it, are you sure "transcripts" was the correct word you were seeking anyway?
You still fail to understand how I play this game.

I don't play games. 

If you dislike "transcripts" see if providing a cite for "transcripts of the verbatim statements made by witnesses" suits you any better, and try to keep your response on topic bearing in mind that there is no evidence of Madeleine's death.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 23, 2018, 10:29:00 PM
Really?
So what's with the original statements suggesting a locked apartment and a break in?
Cite please.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 24, 2018, 01:59:30 PM
Really?
So what's with the original statements suggesting a locked apartment and a break in?

They said the front door was locked,  but the patio door wasn't.

As to the 'break in'   are you referring to the hysterical phone call Gerry made to his sister?    Gerry found the shutter could be raised from outside,  as the shutter should ahve been operated from the inside of the apartment,  it was presumed to be broken.  How Gerrys sister chose to pass on the conversation was her explanation for the shutter being broken. IMO

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 02:20:46 PM
They said the front door was locked,  but the patio door wasn't.

As to the 'break in'   are you referring to the hysterical phone call Gerry made to his sister?    Gerry found the shutter could be raised from outside,  as the shutter should ahve been operated from the inside of the apartment,  it was presumed to be broken.  How Gerrys sister chose to pass on the conversation was her explanation for the shutter being broken. IMO

Do we know if the windows were able to be opened from the outside?  I have never seen anything about that at all only the shutters.   If they were not able to be opened from there then an abductor would not be able to use them as an entry point.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 02:36:57 PM
Do we know if the windows were able to be opened from the outside?  I have never seen anything about that at all only the shutters.   If they were not able to be opened from there then an abductor would not be able to use them as an entry point.

I seem to remember they were opened by the cleaners and not locked
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 02:38:23 PM
I seem to remember they were opened by the cleaners and not locked

Was that from the outside Davel?  My windows don't lock as such as there is no key but I wouldn't be able to open them from the outside without damaging them.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 02:45:05 PM
Was that from the outside Davel?  My windows don't lock as such as there is no key but I wouldn't be able to open them from the outside without damaging them.

Would need to ask Heriberto... Who is, a member here who did a reconstruction
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 24, 2018, 02:46:50 PM
Do we know if the windows were able to be opened from the outside?  I have never seen anything about that at all only the shutters.   If they were not able to be opened from there then an abductor would not be able to use them as an entry point.
The Guardian reported

 11.10pm: Detectives from the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) arrive having been contacted by police constables.

They see there is a latch lock on the sliding glass window. The McCanns thought, but could not be sure they had locked it at the start of the holiday. Later it was discovered that it was common for cleaners to open the shutters and windows to give the rooms an airing, so there is no way of knowing whether the window was locked that night or not
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 02:51:00 PM
The Guardian reported

 11.10pm: Detectives from the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) arrive having been contacted by police constables.

They see there is a latch lock on the sliding glass window. The McCanns thought, but could not be sure they had locked it at the start of the holiday. Later it was discovered that it was common for cleaners to open the shutters and windows to give the rooms an airing, so there is no way of knowing whether the window was locked that night or not

Thank you so much Snowgirl  *&(+(+

I think that is what i have on my windows. In which case the latch would be down so they would not be able to be opened from the outside or they would blow open in on a windy day.  Mine have done it before when someone tries to pull them too without bothering to latch them (the window would also not appear totally closed either).  All IMO.

Is there a picture of the windows (a close up of the inside would be great).
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 03:04:34 PM
Thank you so much Snowgirl  *&(+(+

I think that is what i have on my windows. In which case the latch would be down so they would not be able to be opened from the outside or they would blow open in on a windy day.  Mine have done it before when someone tries to pull them too without bothering to latch them (the window would also not appear totally closed either).  All IMO.

Is there a picture of the windows (a close up of the inside would be great).

It seems they were sliding so wouldn't blow, anywhere...
Sliding windows can be closed but not locked and easily opened  from the outside
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 24, 2018, 03:08:54 PM
Thank you so much Snowgirl  *&(+(+

I think that is what i have on my windows. In which case the latch would be down so they would not be able to be opened from the outside or they would blow open in on a windy day.  Mine have done it before when someone tries to pull them too without bothering to latch them (the window would also not appear totally closed either).  All IMO.

Is there a picture of the windows (a close up of the inside would be great).

My family have closed my windows without locking them too. I wouldn't expect a cleaner familiar with the windows to make that mistake, however.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 24, 2018, 03:09:37 PM
Thank you so much Snowgirl  *&(+(+

I think that is what i have on my windows. In which case the latch would be down so they would not be able to be opened from the outside or they would blow open in on a windy day.  Mine have done it before when someone tries to pull them too without bothering to latch them (the window would also not appear totally closed either).  All IMO.

Is there a picture of the windows (a close up of the inside would be great).
  This? http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2319.jpg
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 03:17:07 PM
  This? http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2319.jpg

Thank you again Snowgirl.

I see they are slightly open in the photographs but we can't be sure they were that way when Madeleine went missing.   There would probably be a draught through the gap though that would make the room colder than others in the apartment IMO.

G-Unit I agree I can't see the cleaners being foolish enough to leave the window open.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 03:28:04 PM
Thank you again Snowgirl.

I see they are slightly open in the photographs but we can't be sure they were that way when Madeleine went missing.   There would probably be a draught through the gap though that would make the room colder than others in the apartment IMO.

G-Unit I agree I can't see the cleaners being foolish enough to leave the window open.

From Heriberto on this forum... Can't do link at the moment


You cas see here, in the 5A window, that the auto-lock of the panes was not functioning properly (from Amaral's Truth of the Lie).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8227.msg407759#msg407759
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 24, 2018, 03:29:27 PM
Thank you again Snowgirl.

I see they are slightly open in the photographs but we can't be sure they were that way when Madeleine went missing.   There would probably be a draught through the gap though that would make the room colder than others in the apartment IMO.

G-Unit I agree I can't see the cleaners being foolish enough to leave the window open.
Sunny I thought the photos were detailing the locks ,so now I’m recalling how  windows on my holidays fasten
Contrary to my windows at home which actually have to be locked with a key ,these like my holiday ones look to  lock when you  take hold of  the handle  move it out,  up then straight down .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 24, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
From Heriberto on this forum... Can't do link at the moment


You cas see here, in the 5A window, that the auto-lock of the panes was not functioning properly (from Amaral's Truth of the Lie).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8227.msg407759#msg407759
Link video unavailable.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 03:54:52 PM
From Heriberto on this forum... Can't do link at the moment


You cas see here, in the 5A window, that the auto-lock of the panes was not functioning properly (from Amaral's Truth of the Lie).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8227.msg407759#msg407759

Unfortunately no video so we are no further forward.  Thanks anyway Davel.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 24, 2018, 04:30:28 PM
Do we know if the windows were able to be opened from the outside?  I have never seen anything about that at all only the shutters.   If they were not able to be opened from there then an abductor would not be able to use them as an entry point.
My understanding is that so long as the latch wasn't in the locked/ latched position it was possible to slide them open from the outside.  See Heriberto Janoschs' video of him opening the shutters and then sliding the window open


Note:   Unless Heris video is on the 'Panarama 10 year Youtube 'video, it doesn't appear to be on the internet any more ... and I have VERY Rapidly gone thru the whole video, but didn't spot it   

Have spoken briefly to Heri, I think he said that it was on that video, but the line was bad and I am not sure whether I heard him properly.  He was at work so we kept the call short.



Anyway probably 90% of you will have seen it already, imo



So I think that if the window was not locked, but only slid to, then yes it would be possible to open both the shutters and the window.


And if they believed the shutters were locked as the Mccanns did, who would they bother to latch or lock the window itself ?





PS.  I dont think that Heri was using 5A window and shutters for his demo, but being the extraordinarily thorough sleuth that he has shown himself to be, I think that he would have carefully chosen a similar set up.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 24, 2018, 04:57:35 PM
My understanding is that so long as the latch wasn't in the locked/ latched position it was possible to slide them open from the outside.  See Heriberto Janoschs' video of him opening the shutters and then sliding the window open


Note:   Unless Heris video is on the 'Panarama 10 year Youtube 'video, it doesn't appear to be on the internet any more ... and I have VERY Rapidly gone thru the whole video, but didn't spot it   

Have spoken briefly to Heri, I think he said that it was on that video, but the line was bad and I am not sure whether I heard him properly.  He was at work so we kept the call short.



Anyway probably 90% of you will have seen it already, imo



So I think that if the window was not locked, but only slid to, then yes it would be possible to open both the shutters and the window.


And if they believed the shutters were locked as the Mccanns did, who would they bother to latch or lock the window itself ?





PS.  I dont think that Heri was using 5A window and shutters for his demo, but being the extraordinarily thorough sleuth that he has shown himself to be, I think that he would have carefully chosen a similar set up.

You are correct Sadie; Pat Brown's video shows the shutter in 5A being raised from outside as far as it could be without opening the window ... Heri did not trespass on 5A property for his demonstration but used an apartment with exactly the same shutter mechanism and exactly the same type of sliding window as in 5A.

I imagine that the majority of members will indeed have seen the video demonstration of exactly how to mimic a burglary.

However in my opinion the hundred dollar question regarding the window and shutter is from the Report by Joao Barreiras, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04
Only the inside of the glass was examined at this time due the fact that it was night and the location was sealed until there was sufficient light to allow the examination of the residence to be completed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

There is no record of that requirement being carried out by the fingerprint officer the following day that I can see.
Quite a glaring oversight when being aware of how simple it is to gain access to an apartment through a window requiring contact to be made with the outside glass.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 24, 2018, 05:18:45 PM
Thank you again Snowgirl.

I see they are slightly open in the photographs but we can't be sure they were that way when Madeleine went missing.   There would probably be a draught through the gap though that would make the room colder than others in the apartment IMO.

G-Unit I agree I can't see the cleaners being foolish enough to leave the window open.
Why not?  Are cleaners not prone to acts of foolishness as a rule? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 24, 2018, 06:27:49 PM
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com/ the video that used to be here is no longer here.  of Heriberto demonstrating opening the window is not there anymore.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 24, 2018, 06:30:14 PM
Why not?  Are cleaners not prone to acts of foolishness as a rule?

In my opinion it would be a sackable offense if a cleaner left an apartment insecure. The 5A cleaner had worked for the Ocean Club for 13 years so she was very experienced. .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 24, 2018, 06:33:24 PM
She might have left it like she found it.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 24, 2018, 06:37:57 PM
She might have left it like she found it.

Or she might not have touched it at all. I'm not sure where the evidence that she did touch it came from.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 24, 2018, 06:41:17 PM
In my opinion it would be a sackable offense if a cleaner left an apartment insecure. The 5A cleaner had worked for the Ocean Club for 13 years so she was very experienced. .
Mistakes happen, even cleaners make them sometimes. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 24, 2018, 06:41:51 PM
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com/ the video that used to be here is no longer here.  of Heriberto demonstrating opening the window is not there anymore.
I had linked to that video many times in the past https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzpniKAWvUI&feature=youtu.be

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8391.msg418476#msg418476 has the link in the quoted bit plus a link to Peter Mac opening the shutters at 5A.  Bloody classic.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 24, 2018, 06:42:05 PM
Or she might not have touched it at all. I'm not sure where the evidence that she did touch it came from.
In which case it may have been unlocked for days or weeks.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 24, 2018, 07:01:11 PM
In which case it may have been unlocked for days or weeks.

We'll never know.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 24, 2018, 07:10:49 PM
We'll never know.
No, but it can’t be ruled out, no point discussing it further then.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 24, 2018, 07:17:24 PM
I had linked to that video many times in the past https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzpniKAWvUI&feature=youtu.be

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8391.msg418476#msg418476 has the link in the quoted bit plus a link to Peter Mac opening the shutters at 5A.  Bloody classic.

Ah the much vaunted top and tailed vidclip of a bolster being abducted.......priceless.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 24, 2018, 07:49:32 PM
Ah the much vaunted top and tailed vidclip of a bolster being abducted.......priceless.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzrebelo3d.jpg.w300h156.jpg)
An officer attempts to enter the apartment through Maddie's bedroom window

In the company of the team members that he brought in from Lisbon - composed of two homicide inspectors, one from sexual abuse, another that is experienced in robberies and two specialists in technical analysis - Paulo Rebelo tried to find details and loose ends that may open new leads or confirm the existing ones.

The investigators entered the apartment around 3 p.m. and soon after opened the shutters of the window to the room where Madeleine was sleeping with her siblings on the night she disappeared. Next, they passed a blue blanket through the window, folded like it was covering a child's body.

Paulo Rebelo was even one of the elements of the team who paid most attention to the window, having risen and lowered the shutters several times, apparently evaluating its operation.
Moments later, the team turned their attention on the rest of the house ...
 http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id21.htm



Hmmm ... more or less priceless than the Portuguese police trying it out with a blue blanket as part of their investigation?

At least you can remember the video showing the technique used to raise the shutter and open the window before raising the shutter higher from outside.
Which according to the above report seems to have been mastered in jig time by Rebelo who did it repeatedly and probably by every burglar operating in the Algarve at the time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 24, 2018, 07:52:01 PM
Mistakes happen, even cleaners make them sometimes.  Or maybe it was left open deliberately?  Just a thought...

The cleaner lost her job because of this case so I would rule deliberately out.

2007 130 employees - April 2009 28 employees (according to this report)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 24, 2018, 08:57:40 PM
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzrebelo3d.jpg.w300h156.jpg)
An officer attempts to enter the apartment through Maddie's bedroom window

In the company of the team members that he brought in from Lisbon - composed of two homicide inspectors, one from sexual abuse, another that is experienced in robberies and two specialists in technical analysis - Paulo Rebelo tried to find details and loose ends that may open new leads or confirm the existing ones.

The investigators entered the apartment around 3 p.m. and soon after opened the shutters of the window to the room where Madeleine was sleeping with her siblings on the night she disappeared. Next, they passed a blue blanket through the window, folded like it was covering a child's body.

Paulo Rebelo was even one of the elements of the team who paid most attention to the window, having risen and lowered the shutters several times, apparently evaluating its operation.
Moments later, the team turned their attention on the rest of the house ...
 http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id21.htm



Hmmm ... more or less priceless than the Portuguese police trying it out with a blue blanket as part of their investigation?

At least you can remember the video showing the technique used to raise the shutter and open the window before raising the shutter higher from outside.
Which according to the above report seems to have been mastered in jig time by Rebelo who did it repeatedly and probably by every burglar operating in the Algarve at the time.

The police were doing the job they were paid to do.
Heri,Pat and Peter are all self appointed busybodies with axes to grind. That is the difference in my book.
Of course I can remember the video and technique!. I had a career which involved, in part, investigating why things went bang or bumped into each other or didn't quite do either but nonetheless were incidents requiring investigation. You would be surprised the blx one is fed, in the expectation one will believe it, both intentionally and unintentionally.
Rule 1 Don't prejudge.
Rule 2 Don't believe what you have been told until you or a team member has verfied it from at least two differing routes.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 10:00:49 PM
The police were doing the job they were paid to do.
Heri,Pat and Peter are all self appointed busybodies with axes to grind. That is the difference in my book.
Of course I can remember the video and technique!. I had a career which involved, in part, investigating why things went bang or bumped into each other or didn't quite do either but nonetheless were incidents requiring investigation. You would be surprised the blx one is fed, in the expectation one will believe it, both intentionally and unintentionally.
Rule 1 Don't prejudge.
Rule 2 Don't believe what you have been told until you or a team member has verfied it from at least two differing routes.

It's al about the evidence and understanding the evidence... When the man leading the operation thinks the evidence proves something when it doesn't... Then there isn't much chance of the crime being solved
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 24, 2018, 10:16:12 PM
It's al about the evidence and understanding the evidence... When the man leading the operation thinks the evidence proves something when it doesn't... Then there isn't much chance of the crime being solved

Who was leading the investigation then?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 24, 2018, 10:31:07 PM
The police were doing the job they were paid to do.
Heri,Pat and Peter are all self appointed busybodies with axes to grind. That is the difference in my book.
Of course I can remember the video and technique!. I had a career which involved, in part, investigating why things went bang or bumped into each other or didn't quite do either but nonetheless were incidents requiring investigation. You would be surprised the blx one is fed, in the expectation one will believe it, both intentionally and unintentionally.
Rule 1 Don't prejudge.
Rule 2 Don't believe what you have been told until you or a team member has verfied it from at least two differing routes.

Then your criteria appears to have been met in spades by Heri, Pat, Peter and the PJ team of 29 October 2007.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 24, 2018, 11:22:21 PM
Then your criteria appears to have been met in spades by Heri, Pat, Peter and the PJ team of 29 October 2007.

On what basis are you including "the PJ team of 29 October 2007" ?
The problem that exists for supporters and sceptics alike as I see it is that they are totally dependent on photos videoclips and information posted on that tinternet.

Photos and video clips are essentially the same media, being manipulable so therefore of questionable reliability.
The first ever war photographer was Roger Fenton. Debate still "rages" around whether his photo of "The Valley of Death" was rigged. That's since 1854!. So let's acknowledge the photographic medium can be a bit unreliable.
Internet? part of computing. All you need know about a computer "It is a big dumb fast adding machine that knows nothing until you tell it something. If you tell it the sun rises in the west it will believe you but worse than that is thereafter if you say the sun rises in the east it will tell you you are wrong". That tinternet is pretty much the same. The absence of something in an internet search means just that and no more.

So against that backdrop from the comfort of the sitting room the answer will likely be a lemon.
Best get down the Algarve and read the files in the court then have a good look around making sure you have taken an appropriate expert with you to interpret what you are looking at. As most on here still can't work out how a roller shutter works and it only has about five basic components, understanding anything with seven or eight or more basic components would cause major headaches IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 24, 2018, 11:40:11 PM
On what basis are you including "the PJ team of 29 October 2007" ?
The problem that exists for supporters and sceptics alike as I see it is that they are totally dependent on photos videoclips and information posted on that tinternet.

Photos and video clips are essentially the same media, being manipulable so therefore of questionable reliability.
The first ever war photographer was Roger Fenton. Debate still "rages" around whether his photo of "The Valley of Death" was rigged. That's since 1854!. So let's acknowledge the photographic medium can be a bit unreliable.
Internet? part of computing. All you need know about a computer "It is a big dumb fast adding machine that knows nothing until you tell it something. If you tell it the sun rises in the west it will believe you but worse than that is thereafter if you say the sun rises in the east it will tell you you are wrong". That tinternet is pretty much the same. The absence of something in an internet search means just that and no more.

So against that backdrop from the comfort of the sitting room the answer will likely be a lemon.
Best get down the Algarve and read the files in the court then have a good look around making sure you have taken an appropriate expert with you to interpret what you are looking at. As most on here still can't work out how a roller shutter works and it only has about five basic components, understanding anything with seven or eight or more basic components would cause major headaches IMO.
We have the original police files to work with.... Then it still comes down to an ability to assess and understand the evidence
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 24, 2018, 11:51:55 PM
We have the original police files to work with.... Then it still comes down to an ability to assess and understand the evidence

I was under the impression that some supporters claimed that the files were wrong either due to mistranslation or because they were translated in the first place. I am sure you are one of those that said that too Davel.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 24, 2018, 11:53:39 PM
On what basis are you including "the PJ team of 29 October 2007" ?
The problem that exists for supporters and sceptics alike as I see it is that they are totally dependent on photos videoclips and information posted on that tinternet.

Photos and video clips are essentially the same media, being manipulable so therefore of questionable reliability.
The first ever war photographer was Roger Fenton. Debate still "rages" around whether his photo of "The Valley of Death" was rigged. That's since 1854!. So let's acknowledge the photographic medium can be a bit unreliable.
Internet? part of computing. All you need know about a computer "It is a big dumb fast adding machine that knows nothing until you tell it something. If you tell it the sun rises in the west it will believe you but worse than that is thereafter if you say the sun rises in the east it will tell you you are wrong". That tinternet is pretty much the same. The absence of something in an internet search means just that and no more.

So against that backdrop from the comfort of the sitting room the answer will likely be a lemon.
Best get down the Algarve and read the files in the court then have a good look around making sure you have taken an appropriate expert with you to interpret what you are looking at. As most on here still can't work out how a roller shutter works and it only has about five basic components, understanding anything with seven or eight or more basic components would cause major headaches IMO.

So Paulo Rebelo and his team taking over the investigation and blowing the cobwebs off it to introduce it to modern policing methods is all a figment ??? 
Please don't allow me to discombobulate your thinking along those lines ... but it would be worth bearing in mind the remedial solution you suggest in your post might be considered extreme for members of a discussion forum.
Particularly since it appears you may not have bothered to 'dry run' your suggested solution to others for efficacy yourself.   

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 24, 2018, 11:57:35 PM
Once again we are drifting way off topic ... "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Bearing in mind that neither is there evidence that Madeleine is dead.

Topic, please.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 25, 2018, 12:35:41 AM
Videos and photos can be manipulated by Photoshop.
Statements can be recorded incorrectly and subject to poor translation.
Witness memory can be affected by False Memory Syndrome.

I the end can we trust any investigation?  I think in the end the British system of recording interviews on video must just about make it impossible to record a statement falsely.

Despite this two of the rogatory interviews in the PJ file had problems with the recordings. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 25, 2018, 02:10:14 AM
Videos and photos can be manipulated by Photoshop.
Statements can be recorded incorrectly and subject to poor translation.
Witness memory can be affected by False Memory Syndrome.

I the end can we trust any investigation?  I think in the end the British system of recording interviews on video must just about make it impossible to record a statement falsely.

Despite this two of the rogatory interviews in the PJ file had problems with the recordings.

And it seems to me that anything that goes against Amaral and his co-horts is being removed from the internet.

Just who is doing that ? 

And are we, our side, helping identify anything that goes against Amaral?   So that they, who ever they may be, just have to find all the sources and delete them ?

Sinister.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 25, 2018, 07:05:33 AM
And it seems to me that anything that goes against Amaral and his co-horts is being removed from the internet.

Just who is doing that ? 

And are we, our side, helping identify anything that goes against Amaral?   So that they, who ever they may be, just have to find all the sources and delete them ?

Sinister.

Do you have any evidence of your claim Sadie?  Any at all?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 25, 2018, 07:09:14 AM
And it seems to me that anything that goes against Amaral and his co-horts is being removed from the internet.

Just who is doing that ? 

And are we, our side, helping identify anything that goes against Amaral?   So that they, who ever they may be, just have to find all the sources and delete them ?

Sinister.
Along with information pertaining to Operation Grange,almost like there's isn't one,so may be they can find no evidence of Madeleine being alive.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 25, 2018, 07:25:16 AM
I was under the impression that some supporters claimed that the files were wrong either due to mistranslation or because they were translated in the first place. I am sure you are one of those that said that too Davel.

Then you are mistaken. In general the files are fairly accurate as,we have the original Portuguese to compare... Grime... Harrison and the forensics are in English.
What I have said is we do not have the original tapas statements in English so we don't know how accurate they are
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 25, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
Do we know if the windows were able to be opened from the outside?  I have never seen anything about that at all only the shutters.   If they were not able to be opened from there then an abductor would not be able to use them as an entry point.

I don't know Sunny,   I only mentioned the shutters as Alice was talking about a 'break in'   Gerry McCann could lift the shutters up from outside,  so obviously IMO he thought they had been broken,   his sister then told her version of the story as 'jemmied'.    Then it was bandied about the internet that the McCann's had said the shutters were smashed,  jemmied etc.   when all Gerry probably said was that they were broken,  which if they were not supposed to open from the outside they were indeed broken.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2018, 09:45:11 AM
Then you are mistaken. In general the files are fairly accurate as,we have the original Portuguese to compare... Grime... Harrison and the forensics are in English.
What I have said is we do not have the original tapas statements in English so we don't know how accurate they are

With the benefit of the files it is possible I think to track what went wrong with much of the original investigation.

I have also noted that much of substance is dated after Amaral was sacked from the case and replaced by Rebelo which rather substantiates that the proper digital collation of the evidence didn't occur till then.
If memory serves me well that included checking out material evidence of the Smith sighting when receipts  and witnesses were sought.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 25, 2018, 09:52:32 AM
And it seems to me that anything that goes against Amaral and his co-horts is being removed from the internet.

Just who is doing that ? 

And are we, our side, helping identify anything that goes against Amaral?   So that they, who ever they may be, just have to find all the sources and delete them ?

Sinister.

Your understanding of how the internet works is lacking. It is a volatile environment, when a site has a tidy up they will remove pages and areas that have not been accessed for a while or are in their minds no longer required. Sites are removed on a regular basis, people have to pay for web hosting and will not continue to do so just for the benefit of other users.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: The General on October 25, 2018, 10:17:47 AM
I don't know Sunny,   I only mentioned the shutters as Alice was talking about a 'break in'   Gerry McCann could lift the shutters up from outside,  so obviously IMO he thought they had been broken,   his sister then told her version of the story as 'jemmied'.    Then it was bandied about the internet that the McCann's had said the shutters were smashed,  jemmied etc.   when all Gerry probably said was that they were broken,  which if they were not supposed to open from the outside they were indeed broken.
Any self-respecting burglar / child snatcher could open a set of patio doors with a lollipop stick; no requirement to 'jemmy' anything.
(disclaimer: exaggeration using the 'lollipop stick' analogy as a device for mild comic effect and emphasis in regard to the relative ease of which an experienced house breaker could break in to a standard set of patio doors)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2018, 10:52:11 AM
Any self-respecting burglar / child snatcher could open a set of patio doors with a lollipop stick; no requirement to 'jemmy' anything.
(disclaimer: exaggeration using the 'lollipop stick' analogy as a device for mild comic effect and emphasis in regard to the relative ease of which an experienced house breaker could break in to a standard set of patio doors)

In this instance a lollipop stick might have been as appropriate a tool as any considering it is on record that that the patio door was unlocked.

In my opinion the open window and raised shutter indicates that someone other than the named persons we know of was there that night.  Which is why it is so extraordinary that the police began leaking about a badly told story almost before the CSI officers had time to replenish their supply of fingerprint powder let alone for the lab to produce a forensic report of their findings.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 25, 2018, 11:01:03 AM
In this instance a lollipop stick might have been as appropriate a tool as any considering it is on record that that the patio door was unlocked.

In my opinion the open window and raised shutter indicates that someone other than the named persons we know of was there that night.  Which is why it is so extraordinary that the police began leaking about a badly told story almost before the CSI officers had time to replenish their supply of fingerprint powder let alone for the lab to produce a forensic report of their findings.

I don't think it was a badly told story but the language barrier resulted in several misunderstandings... Hence why SY seem to accept  it's a perfectly reasonable, story
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: The General on October 25, 2018, 12:03:21 PM
In this instance a lollipop stick might have been as appropriate a tool as any considering it is on record that that the patio door was unlocked.

In my opinion the open window and raised shutter indicates that someone other than the named persons we know of was there that night.  Which is why it is so extraordinary that the police began leaking about a badly told story almost before the CSI officers had time to replenish their supply of fingerprint powder let alone for the lab to produce a forensic report of their findings.
Yes, Brietta, agreed. I was pointing out that our intruder would use the path of least resistance, so naturally would check for unlocked doors, all doors, first, then consider an alternative route of entry. The patio doors being the most vulnerable due to their secluded outlook and relative ease of defeating. The shuttered window would probably be option 3 of 3 for any self-respecting burglar / child snatcher. Conversely, would probably option 1 as a red herring, if one were ever required and if said burglar / child snatcher deemed it necessary.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on October 25, 2018, 12:10:39 PM
Yes, Brietta, agreed. I was pointing out that our intruder would use the path of least resistance, so naturally would check for unlocked doors, all doors, first, then consider an alternative route of entry. The patio doors being the most vulnerable due to their secluded outlook and relative ease of defeating. The shuttered window would probably be option 3 of 3 for any self-respecting burglar / child snatcher. Conversely, would probably option 1 as a red herring, if one were ever required and if said burglar / child snatcher deemed it necessary.
You have to climb steps to reach the patio doors, Madeleine's room window is at street level.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 25, 2018, 01:38:07 PM
I don't know Sunny,   I only mentioned the shutters as Alice was talking about a 'break in'   Gerry McCann could lift the shutters up from outside,  so obviously IMO he thought they had been broken,   his sister then told her version of the story as 'jemmied'.    Then it was bandied about the internet that the McCann's had said the shutters were smashed,  jemmied etc.   when all Gerry probably said was that they were broken,  which if they were not supposed to open from the outside they were indeed broken.

Strange how Gerry could raise it easy but Dianne found it impossible don't ya think? Something doesn't add up!

However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

Crime scene photo - Shutters down
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/apartment5aexterior.jpg)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 25, 2018, 02:46:52 PM
So Paulo Rebelo and his team taking over the investigation and blowing the cobwebs off it to introduce it to modern policing methods is all a figment ??? 
Please don't allow me to discombobulate your thinking along those lines ... but it would be worth bearing in mind the remedial solution you suggest in your post might be considered extreme for members of a discussion forum.
Particularly since it appears you may not have bothered to 'dry run' your suggested solution to others for efficacy yourself.

If it's a discussion forum along the lines of "If the dog hadn't stopped running he would have caught the hare" or "if a sewing machine had bigger wheels it might be a car" or "what would have happened if The Titanic had radar" or "four legs good two legs bad" then fine you carry on. But if you want reality then you need get down in the nuts and bolts and cease being silly. I understand fully your reluctance to do so.

I did a dry run a few years ago as a result of which I posed a question on here, a few times since and have received nothing but puerile responses.

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 25, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
We have the original police files to work with.... Then it still comes down to an ability to assess and understand the evidence

Skating gently over the thrice mistranslated and non verbatim haraz of a few months ago.
Where did you lay your hands on the "Original" police files?
Also skating gently over The Yard's contention of 40,000 + documents to read. Which is close to one man year in time!?
I'll leave others to join up the dots.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 25, 2018, 03:00:46 PM
Skating gently over the thrice mistranslated and non verbatim haraz of a few months ago.
Where did you lay your hands on the "Original" police files?
Also skating gently over The Yard's contention of 40,000 + documents to read. Which is close to one man year in time!?
I'll leave others to join up the dots.
You are, wrong too... Read previous post... Looks like I understood the evidence better than the police you had so much faith in...

As regards the original files... They're on something called the internet.... You need a computer to access it.... Wrth a look
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
You have to climb steps to reach the patio doors, Madeleine's room window is at street level.

The stairway leading to the patio doors was lit and could be seen from the roadway; the front entrance was in total shadow and hidden by trees.

Therefore I think the front of the apartment block was the path of least resistance.  Particularly for burglars skilled in gaining entry into premises in seconds, as we have seen thanks to you, it takes only seconds to raise the bedroom shutter.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: The General on October 25, 2018, 04:10:05 PM
The stairway leading to the patio doors was lit and could be seen from the roadway; the front entrance was in total shadow and hidden by trees.

Therefore I think the front of the apartment block was the path of least resistance.  Particularly for burglars skilled in gaining entry into premises in seconds, as we have seen thanks to you, it takes only seconds to raise the bedroom shutter.
I see your thinking and either your pick or my pick would be choice 1 and 2. If I was a house breaker, and none of you can prove I am, I would be more inclined to go for the patio doors, not only for their notorious vulnerability, but because there's loads of stuff to obscure the view (the parapet wall, relatively dimly lit, foliage, not directly overlooked, scope to escape by jumping down). If I were to try the front door I would be looking to put my shoulder to it or take a pane of glass out, both of which would have me in the full glare of the car park and road and would make a racket.
I think we can both agree, however, that only a fool would first consider the shuttered window, which is sort of my point.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 25, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
The stairway leading to the patio doors was lit and could be seen from the roadway; the front entrance was in total shadow and hidden by trees.

Therefore I think the front of the apartment block was the path of least resistance.  Particularly for burglars skilled in gaining entry into premises in seconds, as we have seen thanks to you, it takes only seconds to raise the bedroom shutter.

I don't see that the side entryway was lit. Once on the steps up to the apartment I believe someone would be hard to spot unless you were actively looking up the steps.

(https://images.static.press.net/v2/image/preview/c8930536ce8e032d2cf16fd54032e7d1/2.4636528.jpg)

Hopefully this photograph from 8th May 2007 shows what I mean.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: The General on October 25, 2018, 04:40:04 PM
I don't see that the side entryway was lit. Once on the steps up to the apartment I believe someone would be hard to spot unless you were actively looking up the steps.

Hopefully this photograph from 8th May 2007 shows what I mean.

....and that area is obviously being floodlit as part of scenes of crimes facilitation.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2018, 04:45:13 PM
I see your thinking and either your pick or my pick would be choice 1 and 2. If I was a house breaker, and none of you can prove I am, I would be more inclined to go for the patio doors, not only for their notorious vulnerability, but because there's loads of stuff to obscure the view (the parapet wall, relatively dimly lit, foliage, not directly overlooked, scope to escape by jumping down). If I were to try the front door I would be looking to put my shoulder to it or take a pane of glass out, both of which would have me in the full glare of the car park and road and would make a racket.
I think we can both agree, however, that only a fool would first consider the shuttered window, which is sort of my point.

Which I have always thought makes it much more probable to have had a front door key to hand and preferably a dark recessed doorway shielded from public view.

However I believe it is thought that both techniques were in operation in the Algarve at the time ... access to keys and entry via windows ... I don't know which might have been preferred for block 5 since Mrs Fenn said window and holidaymakers said they locked their door in reference to those two previous burglaries in block 5.

Maybe Shining could help us out ... but I doubt very much if anyone installing new shutters today would install easily raised ones like those in 5A ... I think new ones will have a locking mechanism.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 25, 2018, 04:54:32 PM
Which I have always thought makes it much more probable to have had a front door key to hand and preferably a dark recessed doorway shielded from public view.

However I believe it is thought that both techniques were in operation in the Algarve at the time ... access to keys and entry via windows ... I don't know which might have been preferred for block 5 since Mrs Fenn said window and holidaymakers said they locked their door in reference to those two previous burglaries in block 5.

Maybe Shining could help us out ... but I doubt very much if anyone installing new shutters today would install easily raised ones like those in 5A ... I think new ones will have a locking mechanism.

Most aluminium persianas (to give them their correct name) since being invented have had a very simple sliding bar locking mechanism attached to the bottom rail which prevents them from being lifted from the outside.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 25, 2018, 05:47:39 PM
I wonder why the apartment now has an iron grille on the downstairs window when the shutters and window are impossible to break into.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 25, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
I wonder why the apartment now has an iron grille on the downstairs window when the shutters and window are impossible to break into.

Probably to stop people interfering with the aluminium shutter and as an absolute defence against anyone climbing in through it just to make a point.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 25, 2018, 06:07:02 PM
Probably to stop people interfering with the aluminium shutter.
Isn’t that impossible?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 25, 2018, 06:18:48 PM
....and that area is obviously being floodlit as part of scenes of crimes facilitation.

Or media interest but yes I agree The General.   It was dark by the steps to the balcony doors as can be seen in this image.  If it was that light in the street as some seem to imply,  of course, you would wonder why Gerry McCann and Jez Wilkins failed to spot Jane Tanner strolling past.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 25, 2018, 06:47:56 PM
I wonder why the apartment now has an iron grille on the downstairs window when the shutters and window are impossible to break into.

Maybe it was because 5A seemed besieged by people who wanted to mess with them;

On 20 September, two men and a women, claiming to be from "Sky News", attempted to force open the external blinds of the front bedroom of apartment 5A and were asked to leave the area; on 25 September a three Spanish persons - again two men and a woman - were found with cameras on the patio balcony of apartment 5B. Having no identification, but being in possession of film equipment, they were believed to be journalists......

Back at 5A of the Ocean Club, on 26 September someone forced up the external blinds of the front bedroom to an oblique angle.....neither had seen any strangers other than two Canadian television journalists, a man and a woman, who had been seen at a nearby bar.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 25, 2018, 06:57:41 PM
Maybe it was because 5A seemed besieged by people who wanted to mess with them;

On 20 September, two men and a women, claiming to be from "Sky News", attempted to force open the external blinds of the front bedroom of apartment 5A and were asked to leave the area; on 25 September a three Spanish persons - again two men and a woman - were found with cameras on the patio balcony of apartment 5B. Having no identification, but being in possession of film equipment, they were believed to be journalists......

Back at 5A of the Ocean Club, on 26 September someone forced up the external blinds of the front bedroom to an oblique angle.....neither had seen any strangers other than two Canadian television journalists, a man and a woman, who had been seen at a nearby bar.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm
Oh.  They achieved the impossible then!
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 25, 2018, 08:15:58 PM
You are, wrong too... Read previous post... Looks like I understood the evidence better than the police you had so much faith in...

As regards the original files... They're on something called the internet.... You need a computer to access it.... Wrth a look

I would suspect the original files are in a court in Portugal. Do you know what original document means? In this context rather than in shipping where it means something totally different.
So I repeat. How and when did you access the original documents?
Did you sit there for a year reading or make multiple visits since July 2008 ?

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2018, 09:33:54 PM
I would suspect the original files are in a court in Portugal. Do you know what original document means? In this context rather than in shipping where it means something totally different.
So I repeat. How and when did you access the original documents?
Did you sit there for a year reading or make multiple visits since July 2008 ?

The files were transferred to DVD for distribution by order of the Portimão court ... making your recommendation a bit archaic as well as unnecessary.
http://visao.sapo.pt/actualidade/sociedade/copias-do-processo-maddie-entregues-aos-jornalistas=f521555 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Angelo222 on October 26, 2018, 12:03:33 PM
I don't see that the side entryway was lit. Once on the steps up to the apartment I believe someone would be hard to spot unless you were actively looking up the steps.

(https://images.static.press.net/v2/image/preview/c8930536ce8e032d2cf16fd54032e7d1/2.4636528.jpg)

Hopefully this photograph from 8th May 2007 shows what I mean.

The light in this particular instance was a white media light and not the sodium street lights.  The steps which led up to the patio door were partially lit by a street light which is positioned on the other side of the main road.

(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/fl/4926901275_7deb6e7074_z.jpg)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 26, 2018, 04:57:57 PM
Oh.  They achieved the impossible then!


Who  mentioned it was impossible to damage shutters?

You are getting confused  with the claim that the shutters were jemmied and opened and a burglar grabbed MBM and climbed back out the window all with in the space of a few minutes- while her dad was outside and JT  was walking up towards the apartment- and he/she/theynever left a mark. NOT A ONE  ummm well  yeah now that is impossible.

However, once we got hold of the files we were alerted to unlocked doors ... and the walked and wandered theories began to be floated. Which ofcourse, as you know, was denied by the 'family' in order to protect their reputation.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 26, 2018, 06:07:58 PM

Who  mentioned it was impossible to damage shutters?

However, once we got hold of the files we were alerted to unlocked doors ... and the walked and wandered theories began to be floated. Which ofcourse, as you know, was denied by the 'family' in order to protect their reputation.

”woke and wandered”, “abducted from an unlocked apartment” , why should one be far more reputation ruining than the other?  In either case the children were left alone in an unsecured apartment.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 26, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
”woke and wandered”, “abducted from an unlocked apartment” , why should one be far more reputation ruining than the other?  In either case the children were left alone in an unsecured apartment.
Do the others agree with VS?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 26, 2018, 09:39:51 PM
Do the others agree with VS?
I certainly do
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: misty on October 26, 2018, 11:22:08 PM
Do the others agree with VS?

Yes - and imo the parents' reputations were already being damaged well before it became clear Madeleine was not going to be found within a reasonable time.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 26, 2018, 11:38:53 PM
I don't see that the side entryway was lit. Once on the steps up to the apartment I believe someone would be hard to spot unless you were actively looking up the steps.

(https://images.static.press.net/v2/image/preview/c8930536ce8e032d2cf16fd54032e7d1/2.4636528.jpg)

Hopefully this photograph from 8th May 2007 shows what I mean.

That photograph is no good. 
The street lights are switched off ... and as Angelo states the scene was illuminated by media lights.

Also it is correct, as John pointed out a few months ago, that when on, the closest street lamp did not illuminate the entire length of steps.   There would be some light from the street lamp opposite the tapas reception, which would illuminate any person walking up the steps and possibly the steps themselves when the bushes were freshly trimmed as on May 3rd 2007..

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 26, 2018, 11:47:46 PM
That photograph is no good. 
The street lights are switched off ... and as Angelo states the scene was illuminated by media lights.

Also it is correct, as John pointed out a few months ago, that when on, the closest street lamp did not illuminate the entire length of steps.   There would be some light from the street lamp opposite the tapas reception, which would illuminate any person walking up the steps and possibly the steps themselves when the bushes were freshly trimmed as on May 3rd 2007..

No sadie the street lights are not switched off. The glare from the media does overwhelm it somewhat but you can still see the yellowish glow shining on the McCanns and Mrs Fenn's apartments.

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 12:28:41 AM
No sadie the street lights are not switched off. The glare from the media does overwhelm it somewhat but you can still see the yellowish glow shining on the McCanns and Mrs Fenn's apartments.

There are two street lamps, one opposite the patio area to 5A and one oppsite the Tapas Reception area, but no shadows for either

If the media lamps are too strong to obliterate these shadows then they will also be too strong to show lighting on the steps.  The photo is useless because of these reasons


... and also because it is taken from such an angle that one cannot see the steps anyway

Soz Sunny, a good try.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 27, 2018, 12:41:33 AM
Yes - and imo the parents' reputations were already being damaged well before it became clear Madeleine was not going to be found within a reasonable time.

I agree with VS too.  Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of her parents as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.
That is not opinion ... it is documented fact ... starting with a 'badly told story' and not yet ended.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 27, 2018, 06:49:03 AM
I agree with VS too.  Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of her parents as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.
That is not opinion ... it is documented fact ... starting with a 'badly told story' and not yet ended.
Can't be that bad,two best seller's have been written about it.Once upon a time there was an alleged abduction,...........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: slartibartfast on October 27, 2018, 07:18:56 AM
I agree with VS too.  Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of her parents as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.
That is not opinion ... it is documented fact ... starting with a 'badly told story' and not yet ended.

Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of the Portuguese Police as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 27, 2018, 07:20:52 AM
Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of the Portuguese Police as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.
To what end?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 27, 2018, 10:45:52 AM
I see your thinking and either your pick or my pick would be choice 1 and 2. If I was a house breaker, and none of you can prove I am, I would be more inclined to go for the patio doors, not only for their notorious vulnerability, but because there's loads of stuff to obscure the view (the parapet wall, relatively dimly lit, foliage, not directly overlooked, scope to escape by jumping down). If I were to try the front door I would be looking to put my shoulder to it or take a pane of glass out, both of which would have me in the full glare of the car park and road and would make a racket.
I think we can both agree, however, that only a fool would first consider the shuttered window, which is sort of my point.


IMO there had been observation of the comings and goings through the week,   the McCann's could be seen entering the apartment through the patio doors.    Now if someone had gone that way,  up the steps,  what if one of the McCann's had decided to visit 5a?   They would have caught who ever it was on the steps or going into the apartment.   IMO the person went in through the front door,  I believe the person had a key, then opened the window as a possible escape route if someone should enter the bedroom.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 10:57:40 AM

IMO there had been observation of the comings and goings through the week,   the McCann's could be seen entering the apartment through the patio doors.    Now if someone had gone that way,  up the steps,  what if one of the McCann's had decided to visit 5a?   They would have caught who ever it was on the steps or going into the apartment.   IMO the person went in through the front door,  I believe the person had a key, then opened the window as a possible escape route if someone should enter the bedroom.

I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 11:18:28 AM

IMO there had been observation of the comings and goings through the week,   the McCann's could be seen entering the apartment through the patio doors.    Now if someone had gone that way,  up the steps,  what if one of the McCann's had decided to visit 5a?   They would have caught who ever it was on the steps or going into the apartment.   IMO the person went in through the front door,  I believe the person had a key, then opened the window as a possible escape route if someone should enter the bedroom.
How would they get the key?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 11:22:13 AM
I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door
From my research the front door would need a key to close it from the outside.  So if what you are saying is correct Kate or someone else would have found the front door open as well.  Kate didn't find it open, therefore in your theory someone else closed it after the abductor left.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 11:24:23 AM
From my research the front door would need a key to close it from the outside.  So if what you are saying is correct Kate or someone else would have found the front door open as well.  Kate didn't find it open, therefore in your theory someone else closed it after the abductor left.

I don't think you can be that  sure
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 11:38:57 AM
I don't think you can be that  sure
Absolutely sure.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 27, 2018, 11:44:54 AM
Absolutely sure.

I like your confidence  8((()*/
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 11:59:13 AM
I like your confidence  8((()*/
David page confirmed it in his statement where he says he rushed back there to see if the front door was open.  Obviously because if Madeleine left via the front door it would be found open. 

But if the person had a key that would change the conditions.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 12:18:39 PM
David page confirmed it in his statement where he says he rushed back there to see if the front door was open.  Obviously because if Madeleine left via the front door it would be found open. 

But if the person had a key that would change the conditions.

Does open mean open... Unlocked... Or like a Yale lock... Locked from the outside but not the inside
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 27, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Just as I agree that in the shortest possible space of time after Madeleine's disappearance the seeds were being sown to trash the reputations of the Portuguese Police as well as any and all with the slightest association with them.

When was the description of the man seen by an eye witness carrying a child away from the scene put into the public domain?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 01:09:07 PM
Does open mean open... Unlocked... Or like a Yale lock... Locked from the outside but not the inside
Open as in accessible from either side, freely swinging door.   Unlatched.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 01:12:26 PM
Open as in accessible from either side, freely swinging door.   Unlatched.

How do you know that's what Payne meant
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 27, 2018, 02:23:26 PM
I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door

Except there was no evidence of anyone coming in through the window as far as I am aware.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 03:01:18 PM
Except there was no evidence of anyone coming in through the window as far as I am aware.

No evidence found.... I think the evidence gathering may have been poor
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 27, 2018, 03:10:30 PM
No evidence found.... I think the evidence gathering may have been poor

Oh boy can we have fun with that!
I may do later if I feel so inclined.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
Oh boy can we have fun with that!
I may do later if I feel so inclined.
I doubt it if your past efforts are anything to go by
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 27, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
How would they get the key?


I read somewhere that some holiday makers left their key under the door mat,  will try and find it,   it could be that that was how the key to 5a was copied. IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 27, 2018, 03:28:34 PM
Except there was no evidence of anyone coming in through the window as far as I am aware.

Amaral said there were no finger prints,  or glove prints,  but then again the person could have wiped the window clean of prints   They said there was no evidence on the bed,  the person of course could have taken their shoes off,  or like the man who broke in to assault children,  wear something over his shoes.   IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 27, 2018, 03:35:24 PM

I read somewhere that some holiday makers left their key under the door mat,  will try and find it,   it could be that that was how the key to 5a was copied. IMO

Are you suggesting that whoever took Madeleine was planning taking her as far back as when some mythical occupants may or may have left a key under the door mat.  There are so many questions with that idea.

Not least - is there a mat?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 04:55:21 PM
No sadie the street lights are not switched off. The glare from the media does overwhelm it somewhat but you can still see the yellowish glow shining on the McCanns and Mrs Fenn's apartments.
Why are there no shadows on the pavement from these lights ?  Or on the garden wall ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 27, 2018, 05:21:45 PM
Are you suggesting that whoever took Madeleine was planning taking her as far back as when some mythical occupants may or may have left a key under the door mat.  There are so many questions with that idea.

Not least - is there a mat?

When you are in make believe land, everything just conveniently falls into place
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 05:22:22 PM
Can't be that bad,two best seller's have been written about it.Once upon a time there was an alleged abduction,...........
How does two best sellers prove that the story was correct  ?   


Just cashing in on a best selling subject IMO.   I think it was all about MONEY.   



Cristovao had made money (a mint?) out of his book about Joana Ciprianos case
Time for Amaral to make his packet out of the Madeleine Mccann case?


http://youtu.be/I8P80A8vy9I

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 27, 2018, 05:37:34 PM
I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door

Entering via the bedroom window would have left a forensic 'footprint' and possibly actual footprints or scuff marks.  No such marks were ever found rendering the theory that someone climbed in through the children's bedroom window somewhat unlikely.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 05:37:55 PM

IMO there had been observation of the comings and goings through the week,   the McCann's could be seen entering the apartment through the patio doors.    Now if someone had gone that way,  up the steps,  what if one of the McCann's had decided to visit 5a?   They would have caught who ever it was on the steps or going into the apartment.   IMO the person went in through the front door,  I believe the person had a key, then opened the window as a possible escape route if someone should enter the bedroom.


I  agree Lace.
Anyone who had walked along the walled pathway, in front of the building to 5A door after dark, would know just how black it was in that front door entrance area.  If trapped by someone coming along that pathway there were two escape routes for a reasonably athletic man. 

1)   Over the wall into the street; quite a drop but I would have done it as a youngster, or

2)   the less athletic route of over the pathway wall, across the car park and escape into either of the streets below.   Any one spotting the man doing this would wonder why, before going searching for him.  That is because the front door was out of sight to anyone approaching along the building front pathway.

The front door was out of sight from almost every walked angle and in the pitch black.  It was quite spooky IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 27, 2018, 05:39:46 PM
Entering via the bedroom window would have left a forensic 'footprint' and possibly actual footprints or scuff marks.  No such marks were ever found rendering the theory that someone climbed in through the children's bedroom window somewhat unlikely.

You say unlikely  but not unlikely  enough for the PJ to test it so it must have been possible.. Not sure how closely the window was checked for any such marks ...plus I doubt if white soled trainers would have left much mark
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 05:46:27 PM
I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door
Except if they had a key then in and out via the front door as Lace suggests, is the obvious route.

By using the key carefully it would have been possible to open the door and close it, pulling it closed with the key, without touching the door at all.   No finger prints.

Using the patio doors, an intruder risked being spotted by the Tapas group, and by passers by



The keys went missing didn't they?  Easy to make a copy

Other appartments in block 5 were thought to have been entered using a key, via the front door.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 05:53:02 PM
How would they get the key?
Lots of people had access to the keys.  Reception, cleaners, maintenance staff to name a few.  Also it was said that one of the staff lost some keys for a while.

So easy to make a copy.  In fact, why not take a copy of the lot if you were that way inclined.  Several burglaries in block 5 were via the front door with no sign of forced entry.

Copy keys used?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: John on October 27, 2018, 06:03:53 PM
You say unlikely  but not unlikely  enough for the PJ to test it so it must have been possible.. Not sure how closely the window was checked for any such marks ...plus I doubt if white soled trainers would have left much mark

It was certainly possible and that is why so much effort was deployed forensically to establish if it happened. White soled trainers would still have left tread marks. The whole bedroom window thingy is a red herring imo and that was the conclusion the Portuguese detectives arrived at in May 2007.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 06:10:53 PM
Entering via the bedroom window would have left a forensic 'footprint' and possibly actual footprints or scuff marks.  No such marks were ever found rendering the theory that someone climbed in through the children's bedroom window somewhat unlikely.
I also think it is very unlikely.  The window is too narrow and although it looks fairly low from inside the room, the cill is quite high from outside.  I dont think it is pheasible tbh.

I dont think any human went through that window.

-  Maybe it was an escape route, that someone could have scrambled through and virtually fallen out of ?
-  Maybe to pass things to the lifter of Madeleine ?
-  Maybe to give moral support, instructions and to warn of anyone coming?
-  Maybe to give the false impression that Madeleine had herself exited via that window?
-  Maybe to give a possible abductor time to get away, cos everyone would have been searching in the wrong places.  i.e. places where Madeleine would likely have gone, rather than places an abductor might have  gone?
-  Maybe to exhaust any fumes from the room if certain drugs were used, like chloroform ?

There were other things that I thought of, but I can't remember them now.

I think the window thing is a red herring by the abductors, anxious to hide their actual route and delay the search
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 06:50:15 PM
How do you know that's what Payne meant
Multiple cross references.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
No evidence found.... I think the evidence gathering may have been poor
They are the detectives on the scene.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 06:55:08 PM

I read somewhere that some holiday makers left their key under the door mat,  will try and find it,   it could be that that was how the key to 5a was copied. IMO
The Paynes left their key under the door mat, mainly because there was 3 adults in their apartment.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 27, 2018, 07:08:56 PM
I see no reason why someone could not have entered through the window and exited through the front door


Except for C Mitchell telling prime time on RTE that the McCann's were firmly of the view of

"that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."

All on the web if one wishes to find the cite.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 07:11:12 PM
Lots of people had access to the keys.  Reception, cleaners, maintenance staff to name a few.  Also it was said that one of the staff lost some keys for a while.

So easy to make a copy.  In fact, why not take a copy of the lot if you were that way inclined.  Several burglaries in block 5 were via the front door with no sign of forced entry.

Copy keys used?
Even GA realised if someone had a key, then an inside job is possible.  It is on the list of ways to open the front door.
Employees doing burglaries was what SY explored.  It is possible but would they have taken a child?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 27, 2018, 07:12:45 PM
You say unlikely  but not unlikely  enough for the PJ to test it so it must have been possible.. Not sure how closely the window was checked for any such marks ...plus I doubt if white soled trainers would have left much mark
They were doing what they had to do to cover all possibilities imo .
Now you're theorising on the type of footwear this imaginary abductor/ burglar of yours ,would this be entering  or leaving via the window ? Havn't you seen the demonstration video of how it would be impossible for an abductor to have balanced on the bed holding a child and got them both out through the window ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 07:13:19 PM

Except for C Mitchell telling prime time on RTE that the McCann's were firmly of the view of

"that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."

All on the web if one wishes to find the cite.
We've heard that before but the McCann's views don't actually count IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 27, 2018, 07:13:57 PM
Even GA realised if someone had a key, then an inside job is possible.  It is on the list of ways to open the front door.
Employees doing burglaries was what SY explored.  It is possible but would they have taken a child?


SY clutched at straws imo,still waiting for some one to explain why were SY officers accompanied by cadaver in full view of the world's press on their hands and knees  looking for evidence of a live child.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 27, 2018, 07:16:30 PM
We've heard that before but the McCann's views don't actually count IMO.

So her book was nonsense,KM that is.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 07:26:18 PM

SY clutched at straws imo,still waiting for some one to explain why were SY officers accompanied by cadaver in full view of the world's press on their hands and knees  looking for evidence of a live child.
What about my "other child died" theory.  In which case they are not looking for the living child but the other one.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 07:28:16 PM
So her book was nonsense,KM that is.
You would never catch me saying that.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 07:38:20 PM

Except for C Mitchell telling prime time on RTE that the McCann's were firmly of the view of

"that somebody got into the apartment and took Madeleine out the window as their means of escape, and to do that they did not necessarily have to tamper with anything. They got out of the window fairly easily."

All on the web if one wishes to find the cite.

I very much doubt if at that time with all the overwhelming grief they were going thru', they analysed the situation in any depth.

It seems to me that they fell into the trap that was set. 
Because the window was open, they just thought that she must have been taken thru there.   Later on, it is my bet that the Mccanns realised just how difficult / impossibnle it would have been for an abductor to leave thru that narrow window carrying Madeleine ...
... and leave no fibres or marks on the window, or cill, at all.

They made a simple mistake.  One, imo, that they were led into
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 27, 2018, 07:43:32 PM
Even GA realised if someone had a key, then an inside job is possible.  It is on the list of ways to open the front door.
Employees doing burglaries was what SY explored.  It is possible but would they have taken a child?

Not a regular burglar, imo.

There are signs that the appartment was watched and that this was an extremely organised abduction imo


A group of local burglars might have been set up to do it, or a special gang brought in.  With a great big pay checque at the end.


AIMHOpinion
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 27, 2018, 07:46:05 PM
I very much doubt if at that time with all the overwhelming grief they were going thru', they analysed the situation in any depth.

It seems to me that they fell into the trap that was set. 
Because the window was open, they just thought that she must have been taken thru there.   Later on, it is my bet that the Mccanns realised just how difficult / impossibnle it would have been for an abductor to leave thru that narrow window carrying Madeleine ...
... and leave no fibres or marks on the window, or cill, at all.

They made a simple mistake.  One, imo, that they were led into
That is opinion and expressed as opinion.  Any of us could have made the same mistake.  So why did the McCanns stick to their misconception rather than change it?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 27, 2018, 07:48:13 PM
I very much doubt if at that time with all the overwhelming grief they were going thru', they analysed the situation in any depth.

It seems to me that they fell into the trap that was set. 
Because the window was open, they just thought that she must have been taken thru there.   Later on, it is my bet that the Mccanns realised just how difficult / impossibnle it would have been for an abductor to leave thru that narrow window carrying Madeleine ...
... and leave no fibres or marks on the window, or cill, at all.

They made a simple mistake.  One, imo, that they were led into

Barrier's quote from Clarence Mitchell was from September 2007 and by then it would have been perfectly clear that any abductor didn't enter through the window.

Here is a link to that

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/mccann-family-reverse-story-over-breakin-evidence-26327114.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 27, 2018, 07:51:21 PM
Not a regular burglar, imo.

There are signs that the appartment was watched and that this was an extremely organised abduction imo


A group of local burglars might have been set up to do it, or a special gang brought in.  With a great big pay checque at the end.


AIMHOpinion


The alleged local abductors didn't look too rich when Bilton stuck his furry monster under their noses last year.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: sadie on October 28, 2018, 01:35:13 AM
That is opinion and expressed as opinion.  Any of us could have made the same mistake.  So why did the McCanns stick to their misconception rather than change it?

Minds stuck in a rut?  Dunno.

Maybe they have changed it ... and just not verbalised their change of thoughts.

I feel that Dave Edgar is a very sincere and probably clever man ... but I wonder how often he thinks out of the box ?

It seems the Mccanns think very highly of Dave ... and little doubt he is a methodical man who would work hard.  I


In my mind, unfortunately he seems unable to think anything other than Madeleine is not far away from where she was allegedly taken.   That might be the usual case, but I think this case is different.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 08:24:49 AM

SY clutched at straws imo,still waiting for some one to explain why were SY officers accompanied by cadaver in full view of the world's press on their hands and knees  looking for evidence of a live child.

They have to cover both lines of investigation,   Redwood said that they were investigating whether Madeleine was alive or sadly dead.    There was no body though was there.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
They were doing what they had to do to cover all possibilities imo .
Now you're theorising on the type of footwear this imaginary abductor/ burglar of yours ,would this be entering  or leaving via the window ? Havn't you seen the demonstration video of how it would be impossible for an abductor to have balanced on the bed holding a child and got them both out through the window ?

Why would the person want to exit through the window with Madeleine when it would be easier to pass her through to an accomplice?   Or go out through the front door?     Looking at the bed,  how would anyone determine if someone had trodden on it coming in through the window,  it was an unmade bed.

I don't think the person did come in through the window I think the person had a key,  and opened the window as a means to escape if cornered.   That doesn't mean I think it is impossible that someone could have come in via the window.   IMO
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 28, 2018, 08:59:10 AM
Why would the person want to exit through the window with Madeleine when it would be easier to pass her through to an accomplice?   Or go out through the front door?     Looking at the bed,  how would anyone determine if someone had trodden on it coming in through the window,  it was an unmade bed.

I don't think the person did come in through the window I think the person had a key,  and opened the window as a means to escape if cornered.   That doesn't mean I think it is impossible that someone could have come in via the window.   IMO

I believe the covers would be rumpled in a foot shape where a foot had been and also there would be dirt or dust on the shoeprint area.  The bed was unmade but the bottom of the covers were still fairly smooth in the photographs.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_16.jpg)
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2018, 09:14:17 AM
I very much doubt if at that time with all the overwhelming grief they were going thru', they analysed the situation in any depth.

It seems to me that they fell into the trap that was set. 
Because the window was open, they just thought that she must have been taken thru there.   Later on, it is my bet that the Mccanns realised just how difficult / impossibnle it would have been for an abductor to leave thru that narrow window carrying Madeleine ...
... and leave no fibres or marks on the window, or cill, at all.

They made a simple mistake.  One, imo, that they were led into


Oh If only...  The whole scene was staged . they could not admit at thator any time they left the children alone every night and this was agreed before they left the UK. They also didn't tell the initial reporters who they contacted via family, that they were out drinking and left a door open for their daughter to go wandering... now why would they change that story about a window. Maybe because, it was all part of the drama created? AND then we have the moving door... another anomoly. if they came and went via a window why bother moving the door just a little bit? and why did the curtains not whooch and door slam while this abductor was grabbing MBM and running away with her.?

My answer would be- all made up cr@p for a gullable audience IMO

So, we would come back to the window. If it was open who opended it- more importantly who closed it? when was it closed, why was it closed. if he left by the bedroom door did he really close it over behind him? heeheee yeah right .
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 09:15:05 AM
I believe the covers would be rumpled in a foot shape where a foot had been and also there would be dirt or dust on the shoeprint area.  The bed was unmade but the bottom of the covers were still fairly smooth in the photographs.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_16.jpg)
Are you telling us that you can tell from these photos that no one set a foot on this bed?  Wow, your powers of observation are superhuman IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 09:17:15 AM

Oh If only...  The whole scene was staged . they could not admit at thator any time they left the children alone every night and this was agreed before they left the UK. They also didn't tell the initial reporters who they contacted via family, that they were out drinking and left a door open for their daughter to go wandering... now why would they change that story about a window. Maybe because, it was all part of the drama created? AND then we have the moving door... another anomoly. if they came and went via a window why bother moving the door just a little bit? and why did the curtains not whooch and door slam while this abductor was grabbing MBM and running away with her.?

My answer would be- all made up cr@p for a gullable audience IMO

So, we would come back to the window. If it was open who opended it- more importantly who closed it? when was it closed, why was it closed. if he left by the bedroom door did he really close it over behind him? heeheee yeah right .
They couldn’t admit they left their kids alone?  There is a plethora of evidence that says the opposite.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2018, 09:20:56 AM
Are you telling us that you can tell from these photos that no one set a foot on this bed?  Wow, your powers of observation are superhuman IMO.


see what you want to see?  look closely at the very small gap between the chair and the bed... now you try and get yourself whle  carrying a child out that window  which slides to one side. without getting your foot caught AND without leaving any marks what so ever.

Cover ears and singing  lalalalala can't hear you... heehee

Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 09:21:48 AM
I believe the covers would be rumpled in a foot shape where a foot had been and also there would be dirt or dust on the shoeprint area.  The bed was unmade but the bottom of the covers were still fairly smooth in the photographs.
(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_16.jpg)

What if the person had removed their shoes?

Any dirt or dust could have been brushed off.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 28, 2018, 09:24:34 AM
What if the person had removed their shoes?

Any dirt or dust could have been brushed off.

And why would they bother wasting time doing such a thing Lace?  Any abductor/burglar would want to be in, take whatever they wanted and out again.  All this is misdirection IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 09:29:45 AM
And why would they bother wasting time doing such a thing Lace?  Any abductor/burglar would want to be in, take whatever they wanted and out again.  All this is misdirection IMO.
Any fule no that the soles of your shoes can leave important clues behind, maybe that’s a reason for taking them off?  Just a thought...
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
What if the person had removed their shoes?

Any dirt or dust could have been brushed off.


The supporters will have to acept defeat gracefully on this score. Making up accomplaces to make a shoe fit is futile, and some what embarrassing. They have told their story- JT claims to have seen one man not two or three, and this was their 'evidence' of an abductor for years. Kate has maintained that she knew her daughter was abducted and gives the whooshing curtain episode as part of her very important claim. To dismiss any idea that their daughter woke and wandered.

ther are two interesting points:
1. why can the parents not accept the dogs findings as a fact that their daughter may have been killed in the apartment by the 'boogy man?
2.Why do they not accept their daughter walked and wandered?

Very interesting for 'distressed' parents  not to look at all possible scenarios, and tear into the investigators for NOT doing what they were told by the family.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2018, 09:39:35 AM
Any fule no that the soles of your shoes can leave important clues behind, maybe that’s a reason for taking them off?  Just a thought...

ok any ideas where they would take their shoes off? inside or outside the apartment. would they put them on while  carrying a child and struggling to get out of a small gap and small window...


The window is a red herring and all the defene of it is hilarious.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 10:13:38 AM
ok any ideas where they would take their shoes off? inside or outside the apartment. would they put them on while  carrying a child and struggling to get out of a small gap and small window...


The window is a red herring and all the defene of it is hilarious.
How about leaving them outside the window?  On the ground?  To be put on again when leaving?  Now tell me it’s impossible to put shoes on while carrying a child.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 28, 2018, 10:21:07 AM
How about leaving them outside the window?  On the ground?  To be put on again when leaving?  Now tell me it’s impossible to put shoes on while carrying a child.  @)(++(*

you tell me that burglars are removing shoes to steal children  (&^&

I mean WFT. get real.

JT said she saw the man hurrying... was this because he had to stop and put his shoes on perchance? maybe he even had time for a ciggarette before he made off  ^*&&

so let us look at the very smal gap between the bed and the chair-and that small window to put shoes on while getting out of a window carrying a child... 8**8:/:
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Davel on October 28, 2018, 10:21:59 AM
ok any ideas where they would take their shoes off? inside or outside the apartment. would they put them on while  carrying a child and struggling to get out of a small gap and small window...


The window is a red herring and all the defene of it is hilarious.
With respect there is a lot I find hilarious re your ideas and those of some other sceptics
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Snowgirl on October 28, 2018, 10:37:34 AM
Anyone standing on a bed in stockinged feet risks slipping .
Anyone standing on a bed in bare feet risks leaving DNA .
The suggestions that someone used the window are ridiculous imo.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 28, 2018, 10:41:18 AM
What if the person had removed their shoes?

Any dirt or dust could have been brushed off.

Blooming good job a odd shoe wasn't found they'd have been looking for a Cinderella.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 28, 2018, 11:48:15 AM
With respect there is a lot I find hilarious re your ideas and those of some other sceptics

Classic supporters disease.
"Rightbackatcheritis" with no sign of original thought.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 11:53:46 AM

The supporters will have to acept defeat gracefully on this score. Making up accomplaces to make a shoe fit is futile, and some what embarrassing. They have told their story- JT claims to have seen one man not two or three, and this was their 'evidence' of an abductor for years. Kate has maintained that she knew her daughter was abducted and gives the whooshing curtain episode as part of her very important claim. To dismiss any idea that their daughter woke and wandered.

ther are two interesting points:
1. why can the parents not accept the dogs findings as a fact that their daughter may have been killed in the apartment by the 'boogy man?
2.Why do they not accept their daughter walked and wandered?

Very interesting for 'distressed' parents  not to look at all possible scenarios, and tear into the investigators for NOT doing what they were told by the family.

What are you talking about 'the supporters will have to accept defeat gracefully on this score'    IMO there was more than one person involved.   One went into the apartment the other received the child either through the window or at the front door.   The person who went into the apartment left in a different direction or went back to work.  Kate believed her daughter to have been abducted as as she said no child of four would leave through the patio doors and close them behind her then through a child gate and another gate and close both behind her.  Kate knew her child,  she didn't believe Madeleine would have left the apartment.   If I were the McCann's I wouldn't accept the dogs findings either,  there was no body.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 11:56:16 AM

see what you want to see?  look closely at the very small gap between the chair and the bed... now you try and get yourself whle  carrying a child out that window  which slides to one side. without getting your foot caught AND without leaving any marks what so ever.

Cover ears and singing  lalalalala can't hear you... heehee

Who is saying anyone went back through the window carrying Madeleine?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 28, 2018, 12:41:56 PM
What if the person had removed their shoes?

Any dirt or dust could have been brushed off.

 *%87 Time? Very small window of opportunity but changing shoes? Meanwhile, back in the real word.........
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 12:49:36 PM
Anyone standing on a bed in stockinged feet risks slipping .
Anyone standing on a bed in bare feet risks leaving DNA .
The suggestions that someone used the window are ridiculous imo.
I think you'd really have to be quite unlucky to slip on a bed in stockinged feet tbh.  Put your socks on, go stand on your bed and see how often you slip over. 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 28, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
I think you'd really have to be quite unlucky to slip on a bed in stockinged feet tbh.  Put your socks on, go stand on your bed and see how often you slip over.

The bed would be very rumpled if someone with at least say 8 stone weight stood on it and then pushed off from the bed to land on the floor.   It wasn't, so no abductor in or out of the window IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on October 28, 2018, 01:37:55 PM
The bed would be very rumpled if someone with at least say 8 stone weight stood on it and then pushed off from the bed to land on the floor.   It wasn't, so no abductor in or out of the window IMO.
???  Are you saying it's not possible to stand on a bed and get off it without severely rumpling the bed?  Go try it now and see how severely rumpled your bed gets.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 28, 2018, 01:46:13 PM
you tell me that burglars are removing shoes to steal children  (&^&

I mean WFT. get real.

JT said she saw the man hurrying... was this because he had to stop and put his shoes on perchance? maybe he even had time for a ciggarette before he made off  ^*&&

so let us look at the very smal gap between the bed and the chair-and that small window to put shoes on while getting out of a window carrying a child... 8**8:/:
^*&&(http://www.express-cleaning-supplies.co.uk/custom/upload/images/products/1/160x160/4784.jpg) ^*&&
Apparently it is not required to remove footwear before putting on a protective covering ... if memory serves me well there is an account that on at least one occasion the man who accessed holiday accommodation was reported as wearing protective coverings on his feet.

Even back then in the dark ages criminals were too well aware of forensics and took steps to avoid leaving any.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 28, 2018, 01:48:59 PM
The bed would be very rumpled if someone with at least say 8 stone weight stood on it and then pushed off from the bed to land on the floor.   It wasn't, so no abductor in or out of the window IMO.

On a bed covered by a duvet?  I think not.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 28, 2018, 01:52:45 PM
*%87 Time? Very small window of opportunity but changing shoes? Meanwhile, back in the real word.........

What was stopping the person slipping off shoes,  entering through the window,  passing Madeleine out through the window or door,  going out a  slipping shoes back on?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: jassi on October 28, 2018, 01:54:24 PM
What was stopping the person slipping off shoes,  entering through the window,  passing Madeleine out through the window or door,  going out a  slipping shoes back on?

Absolutely nothing, but why should you think it likely ? A vivid imagination.or something more tangible ?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Admin on October 28, 2018, 02:01:34 PM
Constructive comments please everyone.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 29, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Absolutely nothing, but why should you think it likely ? A vivid imagination.or something more tangible ?

Maybe Amaral should have investigated all avenues,  instead of dismissing everything?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 08:12:56 AM
Maybe Amaral should have investigated all avenues,  instead of dismissing everything?
That's supposed to be what OG are/were doing according to some,where's it got them?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2018, 08:50:36 AM
Maybe Amaral should have investigated all avenues,  instead of dismissing everything?

As I understand it there was no evidence that anyone used that window. Why, therefore, would any detective wonder about shoes?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Lace on October 29, 2018, 09:04:12 AM
As I understand it there was no evidence that anyone used that window. Why, therefore, would any detective wonder about shoes?

What evidence was that?   No fingerprints,  person could have wiped the window.

Did the police 'wonder' about how that man who assaulted children got into the apartments?  -


"Whilst not identical, there are many similar aspects to each of the incidents in that in most cases there were no signs of forced entry to the property, nothing was taken, and the intruder appeared in the early hours of the morning," between 2 and 5 a.m., police said in a statement





Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 09:26:27 AM
What evidence was that?   No fingerprints,  person could have wiped the window.

Did the police 'wonder' about how that man who assaulted children got into the apartments?  -


"Whilst not identical, there are many similar aspects to each of the incidents in that in most cases there were no signs of forced entry to the property, nothing was taken, and the intruder appeared in the early hours of the morning," between 2 and 5 a.m., police said in a statement
Nothing taken being the relevant part imo.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
Nothing taken being the relevant part imo.

Madeleine?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
Madeleine?

Allegedly.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: G-Unit on October 29, 2018, 09:54:56 AM
What evidence was that?   No fingerprints,  person could have wiped the window.

Did the police 'wonder' about how that man who assaulted children got into the apartments?  -


"Whilst not identical, there are many similar aspects to each of the incidents in that in most cases there were no signs of forced entry to the property, nothing was taken, and the intruder appeared in the early hours of the morning," between 2 and 5 a.m., police said in a statement

According to Kate McCann the shutters and window were open at 22.00. According to Jane Tanner the 'abductor' struck between 21.10 and 21.20. According to Matt Oldfield the shutters and window weren't open at 21.30. In my opinion that conundrum was enough to keep the detectives busy.

Did the PJ know about this man you refer to?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 10:19:26 AM
Allegedly.
Snip
Tucson police said at the time that they believed she was kidnapped from her home, citing a broken screen they found in her bedroom.

“We have a window that was opened and a screen removed,” then-Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor said in 2012, according to CNN.

“We’re labeling it as suspicious circumstances and a possible abduction,” Villaseñor said.
https://people.com/crime/missin-isabel-celis-found-dead-tucson-arizona/


Whether they believed it or not the Tuscon police ran with the evidence they had to hand when Isabel Celis disappeared, which in my opinion was less than the Portuguese police had, given the eye witness testimony of Jane Tanner.

Sadly the abduction theory they followed turned out to be the correct one.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 10:25:49 AM
Snip
Tucson police said at the time that they believed she was kidnapped from her home, citing a broken screen they found in her bedroom.

“We have a window that was opened and a screen removed,” then-Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor said in 2012, according to CNN.

“We’re labeling it as suspicious circumstances and a possible abduction,” Villaseñor said.
https://people.com/crime/missin-isabel-celis-found-dead-tucson-arizona/


Whether they believed it or not the Tuscon police ran with the evidence they had to hand when Isabel Celis disappeared, which in my opinion was less than the Portuguese police had, given the eye witness testimony of Jane Tanner.

Sadly the abduction theory they followed turned out to be the correct one.


Jane Tanners evidence was of no significance according to Redwood and the case moved on from there, so its possible the PJ had even less particularly given there was no broken screen or in this case shutter,so the link between the two is tenuous at best imo.

Also possible abduction, nothing confirmed.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 10:32:57 AM

Jane Tanners evidence was of no importance according to Redwood and the case moved on from there,so its possible the PJ had even less also given there was no broken screen or in this case shutter,so the link between the two is tenuous at best imo.

I don't recall DCI Redwood saying Jane's evidence was of no import.

The link is that both children disappeared from their beds ... but I think you are probably correct that the link in progressing the investigation ends there.  Apparently one police force followed the evidence ... one police force ignored eye witness evidence.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 29, 2018, 12:37:34 PM
I don't recall DCI Redwood saying Jane's evidence was of no import.

The link is that both children disappeared from their beds ... but I think you are probably correct that the link in progressing the investigation ends there.  Apparently one police force followed the evidence ... one police force ignored eye witness evidence.

Eye witness evidence of what precisely?
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 29, 2018, 01:14:19 PM
I don't recall DCI Redwood saying Jane's evidence was of no import.

The link is that both children disappeared from their beds ... but I think you are probably correct that the link in progressing the investigation ends there.  Apparently one police force followed the evidence ... one police force ignored eye witness evidence.

He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 04:55:22 PM
He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.

Did he actually say that?  Can you provide a quote, please.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 05:33:32 PM
Almost certain is Redwoods words in his revelation moment, shifting the focus onto Smithman.All information pertaining to OG is no longer available from the MET site this could be they have either identified Smithman or given up depending on ones point of view.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 06:33:43 PM
Almost certain is Redwoods words in his revelation moment, shifting the focus onto Smithman.All information pertaining to OG is no longer available from the MET site this could be they have either identified Smithman or given up depending on ones point of view.

You are making specific claims you cannot substantiate ... which really isn't good enough is it? 
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: barrier on October 29, 2018, 06:43:49 PM
You are making specific claims you cannot substantiate ... which really isn't good enough is it?

Could be is far from specific,unless you mean Redwoods words.

Redwood:"DCI Redwood said it was a "revelation moment" when police discovered that the man seen by McCanns' friend Jane Tanner at 9.15pm was almost certainly an innocent British holiday-maker collecting his two-year-old daughter from a nearby creche.
He said: "Our focus in terms of understanding what happened on the night of 3 May has now given us a shift of emphasis. We are almost certain that the man seen by Jane Tanner is not Madeleine's abductor.
"It takes us through to a position at 10pm when we see another man who is walking towards the ocean, close by to the apartment, with a young child in his arms."
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 29, 2018, 06:48:59 PM
Did he actually say that?  Can you provide a quote, please.

Here you go Brietta.

Det Chief Insp Andy Redwood, who is leading the Metropolitan Police investigation, said the realisation that the 9.15pm sighting was not the abductor was a turning point in his team’s work.

He said: “In fact I would say that it was a revelation moment…we are almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor and very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15pm we are able to allow the clock to move forward and in doing so things that have not been quite as significant, or have received quite the same degree of attention are now at the centre of our focus.”



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10378303/Madeleine-McCann-New-reconstruction-reveals-abduction-was-later-than-previously-thought.html
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
Here you go Brietta.

Det Chief Insp Andy Redwood, who is leading the Metropolitan Police investigation, said the realisation that the 9.15pm sighting was not the abductor was a turning point in his team’s work.

He said: “In fact I would say that it was a revelation moment…we are almost certain now that this sighting is not the abductor and very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15pm we are able to allow the clock to move forward and in doing so things that have not been quite as significant, or have received quite the same degree of attention are now at the centre of our focus.”



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10378303/Madeleine-McCann-New-reconstruction-reveals-abduction-was-later-than-previously-thought.html

I'm still not seeing "Jane Tanners evidence was of no importance according to Redwood" you are confusing opinion with fact.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 29, 2018, 06:58:08 PM
I'm still not seeing "Jane Tanners evidence was of no importance according to Redwood" you are confusing opinion with fact.

That could be because I actually didn't say what you have quoted above.  My post was

He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.

All I was attributing to Andy Redwood was that he had found Jane Tanners man. The rest was my opinion.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 07:37:25 PM
That could be because I actually didn't say what you have quoted above.  My post was

He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.

All I was attributing to Andy Redwood was that he had found Jane Tanners man. The rest was my opinion.

Sorry ... I have confused yours with another member's statement also requiring a cite.

You said ...
He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg499140#msg499140

Which is not actually what he said ... you have paraphrased what he did say to suit your opinion.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Sunny on October 29, 2018, 07:42:38 PM
Sorry ... I have confused yours with another member's statement also requiring a cite.

You said ...
He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10243.msg499140#msg499140

Which is not actually what he said ... you have paraphrased what he did say to suit your opinion.

I was speaking about Andy Redwood in the third person so it was obviously not a quote, no speechmarks either.  I said he had found Jane Tanners man. He said he was almost certain he had found that man.

So no paraphrasing IMO.
Title: Re: "no evidence" to support a theory missing girl Madeleine McCann is alive
Post by: Brietta on October 29, 2018, 07:54:27 PM
That could be because I actually didn't say what you have quoted above.  My post was

He said he had found Jane Tanners man so therefore he would be irrelevant to the case unless he had seen anything of course.  Unless you think that he is still the suspect in which case I would inform Scotland Yard or the PJ.

All I was attributing to Andy Redwood was that he had found Jane Tanners man. The rest was my opinion.

Paraphrasing and no indication of "in my opinion" that I can see.  Please bear both in mind for future reference which will go a long way towards integrity of posts.  End of conversation.