UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 09:20:13 AM

Title: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 09, 2019, 09:20:13 AM
Two are available with more to follow.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Podcast/
https://omny.fm/shows/maddie
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 04:22:40 PM

I have no idea of what this is about.  But in the absence of much else then anything will do.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 04:56:47 PM
Absolute rubbish...promotes Amaral as a supercop...who claims the shutters could not be opened from the outside.. With a report by Paulo Reiss... Then we have Petermac saying the window was too small for a man to fit through and tells off a women in a forensic suit collecting fingerprint samples from the window... Looking forward to the rest
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 09, 2019, 05:36:26 PM
Two are available with more to follow.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Podcast/
https://omny.fm/shows/maddie
Save me watching them - has he uncovered anything at all that we didn’t already know, or put forward any opinions that we haven’t already heard a million times before?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 09, 2019, 05:43:45 PM
Absolute rubbish...promotes Amaral as a supercop...who claims the shutters could not be opened from the outside.. With a report by Paulo Reiss... Then we have Petermac saying the window was too small for a man to fit through and tells off a women in a forensic suit collecting fingerprint samples from the window... Looking forward to the rest

Why do you think Rebelo was particularly interested in the window with regard to the reconstitution? Does it suggest to you that he was convinced with the parents tale ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 05:52:19 PM
Why do you think Rebelo was particularly interested in the window with regard to the reconstitution? Does it suggest to you that he was convinced with the parents tale ?

Was he particularly interested in the window... According to the podcast... Amaral said the shutters couldn't be opened from the outside.... He wad wrong... And petermac said a man couldn't fit through the window... He was wrong... Not a convincing start
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 09, 2019, 06:38:21 PM
After waiting at the restaurant table for five minutes, Dianne Webster went to the McCann's apartment where she entered the children's bedroom and saw Kate with the twins. Kate insisted on the fact that the window and shutters were open when she saw the children, Dianne went outside to see if she could raise the shutter from the outside and found it to be impossible.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm


Pathfinder posted this in another thread.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 06:40:11 PM
After waiting at the restaurant table for five minutes, Dianne Webster went to the McCann's apartment where she entered the children's bedroom and saw Kate with the twins. Kate insisted on the fact that the window and shutters were open when she saw the children, Dianne went outside to see if she could raise the shutter from the outside and found it to be impossible.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm


Pathfinder posted this in another thread.

Petermac has posted a video showing how easy the shutters are to open from the outside... Have you not seen it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 06:42:47 PM
After waiting at the restaurant table for five minutes, Dianne Webster went to the McCann's apartment where she entered the children's bedroom and saw Kate with the twins. Kate insisted on the fact that the window and shutters were open when she saw the children, Dianne went outside to see if she could raise the shutter from the outside and found it to be impossible.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BRIGADE-OF-INFORMATION.htm


Pathfinder posted this in another thread.

Is there a statement  to this effect.. Cite would be appreciated..
So no direct statement... We are not sure who made this claim and how true it is... But we have a, video of petermac showing how, easy it was to open the shutters
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 09, 2019, 06:42:58 PM
Dianne Webster.

However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 09, 2019, 06:45:06 PM
Petermac has posted a video showing how easy the shutters are to open from the outside... Have you not seen it


Webster was out there at the time,Mcleod wasn't.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 06:49:14 PM

Webster was out there at the time,Mcleod wasn't.

No
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 09, 2019, 06:57:36 PM
No statement from Webster to that effect.. Just an unverified.. Hearsay... Claim

What the f is this then.

Dianne Webster.

However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 06:59:43 PM
What the f is this then.

Yes I've just seen it... So it's the Portuguese translation... Not her words... She may not have been able to open it... How old us she... But petermac proved on video it was, easy fir a man to open
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 09, 2019, 07:05:39 PM
Yes I've just seen it... So it's the Portuguese translation... Not her words... She may not have been able to open it... How old us she... But petermac proved on video it was, easy fir a man to open


So? what does it prove ,is he an authority all of a sudden on all things related to 5a.

how long after the event was he there,were the shutters subject to some maintenance to help ease of opening?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 09, 2019, 07:11:37 PM

So? what does it prove ,is he an authority all of a sudden on all things related to 5a.

how long after the event was he there,were the shutters subject to some maintenance to help ease of opening?

The fact is what petermac showed is the shutters do not have a locking mechanism.. And with a bit of wriggling can be FORCED up... Without causing any damage.. Perhaps Webster just wasn't strong enough..

Sil will confirm that this has also been established by a member of this forum... Heriberto
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 07:40:35 PM

So? what does it prove ,is he an authority all of a sudden on all things related to 5a.

how long after the event was he there,were the shutters subject to some maintenance to help ease of opening?

PeterMac is an idiot.  He inadvertently proved that the shutters could be raised from outside.  On Video.

Not that any of this matters.  We still don't know how Madeleine  was taken from 5a.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2019, 08:56:23 PM
The fact is what petermac showed is the shutters do not have a locking mechanism.. And with a bit of wriggling can be FORCED up... Without causing any damage.. Perhaps Webster just wasn't strong enough..

Sil will confirm that this has also been established by a member of this forum... Heriberto

Heri showed the proper way to do it (possibly using the burglars' tried and technique} if memory serves me well it is done as follows
I believe many holidaymakers might have been under the misapprehension that the shutters were a security measure.  At this time in 2007 this was not the case in apartments such as 5A, which the McCanns had rented.

On running to the apartment after Kate raised the alarm ... one of the first things Gerry did was to lower the shutter, run outside, I think to 'prove' it could not be raised to allow access from outside.  Only to find it was possible.  He didn't know the proper technique for doing so and got it stuck at an angle which I believe was noted by the police when they arrived on site.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 09, 2019, 09:35:40 PM

None of this is of any importance beyond the fact that it was possible to raise the shutters from outside   PeterMac proved that himself.  After that fact anything was possible.  Anyone could have opened the window.  What happened after that will always be conjecture.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 09, 2019, 10:23:28 PM
Colin Sutton erred when he stated that there were only two possibilities and both of them were implausible.  He stated that Maddie was either abducted by an intruder or a gang of paedophiles who risked a very small window of opportunity to gain access to the apartment or the McCanns and their friends were complicit in a cover-up.  He failed to report the most likely scenario that Maddie wandered out of the apartment and was either run over and lifted from the street outside or simply abducted from the street outside.  A fatal flaw in his investigation imo which the Aussie podcast also fails to explore.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2019, 11:41:03 PM
Oh well ... I bit the bullet ... and wasted a valuable ten minutes 40 seconds of my life listening to as much of a podcast made by yet another know nothing 'expert' as I was able to take.

Amazing ... this guy has perhaps stumbled onto a nice wee sponsorship earner for himself using the least possible effort ... by peddling dated misinformation already available on any of the numerous internet sceptic sites.

A podcast indeed! He really has got it worked out ... least possible effort - to net a gullible not terribly critical audience for a series of these - for a possibly good return.
As far as that goes ... I think the guy done good for himself.  Gives me cause to wonder a bit though about how much more of this his target audience can take before the penny drops.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 12:04:30 AM
Colin Sutton erred when he stated that there were only two possibilities and both of them were implausible.  He stated that Maddie was either abducted by an intruder or a gang of paedophiles who risked a very small window of opportunity to gain access to the apartment or the McCanns and their friends were complicit in a cover-up.  He failed to report the most likely scenario that Maddie wandered out of the apartment and was either run over and lifted from the street outside or simply abducted from the street outside.  A fatal flaw in his investigation imo which the Aussie podcast also fails to explore.

If you believe in woke and wandered how do you explain the open window?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 12:20:01 AM
If you believe in woke and wandered how do you explain the open window?
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: carlymichelle on March 10, 2019, 07:32:06 AM
im very proud to have another australian with his  opinion/s
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 08:15:11 AM
im very proud to have another australian with his  opinion/s
Bless you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 10, 2019, 08:37:45 AM
The fact is what petermac showed is the shutters do not have a locking mechanism.. And with a bit of wriggling can be FORCED up... Without causing any damage.. Perhaps Webster just wasn't strong enough..

Sil will confirm that this has also been established by a member of this forum... Heriberto


Heriberto did it with another shutter did he not.Once lifted in this imagined scenario how are the shutters kept open to enter the room, cross it to Madeleine's bed and out again? Remembering Mitchell:,Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that some got into the room and left through the window as their means of escape.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 08:49:18 AM

Heriberto did it with another shutter did he not.Once lifted in this imagined scenario how are the shutters kept open to enter the room, cross it to Madeleine's bed and out again? Remembering Mitchell:,Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that some got into the room and left through the window as their means of escape.

It was quite simple to keep the shutters up as heri showed... Simply reach in and pull on the cord/chain mechanism... I don't think the mccanns think that the, abductor left specifically by the window... We dint know what part the open window played.... But if the window was open it indicates third party involvement
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
Mark is presenting a very biased view so far... Whereas, I understood good journalist have a duty to be impartial... The mccanns have quite rightly sued anyone who had libelled them... Mark reports that as, an attempt to control the media.. It isnt
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 09:12:11 AM
Mark is presenting a very biased view so far... Whereas, I understood good journalist have a duty to be impartial... The mccanns have quite rightly sued anyone who had libelled them... Mark reports that as, an attempt to control the media.. It isnt
Journalists have a duty to report accurately but not necessarily impartially.  IMO.  Look at the recent two part documentary on Michael Jackson for example.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 09:18:49 AM
Journalists have a duty to report accurately but not necessarily impartially.  IMO.  Look at the recent two part documentary on Michael Jackson for example.
He's far from impartial... He claims he has interviewed one if the, world's leading DNA experts... Let's see if he's, accurate..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2019, 09:20:08 AM

Heriberto did it with another shutter did he not.Once lifted in this imagined scenario how are the shutters kept open to enter the room, cross it to Madeleine's bed and out again? Remembering Mitchell:,Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that some got into the room and left through the window as their means of escape.
Using Heri's flawless demonstration as an example ...the trick lies in the cunning plan to use the shutter's own mechanism to raise it and lock it into place.  Think about it very carefully.

No-one except the person who opened the window and raised the shutter has the faintest idea why it was done.  No-one knows if it was opened from the inside or if it was opened from the outside.

Amaral is of the opinion it cannot be opened from the outside.  He is wrong ... demonstrably wrong and getting something as elementary as that wrong raises the red flag of what else he got wrong.  Repeating the myths as the latest poster boy is doing cannot change that.  'But facts are chiels that winna ding' following in Amaral's footsteps just isn't going to shake that elusive Ace out of anyone's sleeve. I think it just makes those flying in the face of evidence to the contrary of Amaral's erroneous ill informed opinion look rather foolish.

Why anyone would buy into this entrepreneur's series of podcasts rehashing every redundant conspiracy theory past and present is way beyond me.  Didn't the boy done good though as far as making a name for himself is concerned in this niche market ... what it will do for any serious aspirations he may have in the real world remains to be seen ... but I'm not hopeful for him.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 09:30:05 AM
I believe the podcast contains this gem of new intelligence
"My shoulders are wider than that little window. So although you could climb in sideways you certainly can't jump in if you are a normal sized person," Mr MacLeod said.
I mean LOL.  So because Peter Mac has wide shoulders no one could jump through the window.
 (&^&
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 10, 2019, 09:33:49 AM
Seems to be a lot of opinion being passed off as fact these days,forum is not like it used to be.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
Seems to be a lot of opinion being passed off as fact these days,forum is not like it used to be.
give us an example
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 09:37:14 AM
Oh well ... I bit the bullet ... and wasted a valuable ten minutes 40 seconds of my life listening to as much of a podcast made by yet another know nothing 'expert' as I was able to take.

Amazing ... this guy has perhaps stumbled onto a nice wee sponsorship earner for himself using the least possible effort ... by peddling dated misinformation already available on any of the numerous internet sceptic sites.

A podcast indeed! He really has got it worked out ... least possible effort - to net a gullible not terribly critical audience for a series of these - for a possibly good return.
As far as that goes ... I think the guy done good for himself.  Gives me cause to wonder a bit though about how much more of this his target audience can take before the penny drops.

Your reaction is as expected. You dismss the content of the podcasts as 'dated misinformation' yet don't identify what you disagree with.  Instead your reaction is to launch a personal attack on Mark Saunokonoko and his audience.

There are a lot of people who share this man's doubts and they, like him, are perfectly normal intelligent, law abiding citizens. Personally attacking them looks like desperation to me rather than the best line of defence.

In my opinion there are aspects of the McCann's story which don't make sense. Those who support them have never been able to explain these anomalies imo. Opinions about how the McCann;s felt or on the skills of policemen, judges, interpreters and translators aren't explanations, they're excuses dredged up fron fertile imaginations in my opinion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 10, 2019, 09:40:24 AM
give us an example

Quote
No-one except the person who opened the window and raised the shutter has the faintest idea why it was done.

What is a fact is its written in a book,whether it is an actual fact remains open to question  and should be treated as such,good enough.

Posters counted on the fingers of one hand two of them are what can be described as [ censored word ] and mods taboot its not a criticism but a view of what I see.agree or disagree at your will I care not,guest's looking in down from the hunderds to double figures
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 10:57:51 AM


DB = David Barclay (Former Head of Physical Evidence UK National Crime and Operations Faculty)

‘(to camera) We must be very careful that we're not saying this is actually staging, but it is difficult to see how anybody could have interfered with those shutters from the outside without leaving some trace. In fact, having looked at them, I think it's almost impossible.’
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 11:25:29 AM

DB = David Barclay (Former Head of Physical Evidence UK National Crime and Operations Faculty)

‘(to camera) We must be very careful that we're not saying this is actually staging, but it is difficult to see how anybody could have interfered with those shutters from the outside without leaving some trace. In fact, having looked at them, I think it's almost impossible.’

I have heard policemen saying they believe the McCanns weren't involved in their daughter's disappearance.  I haven't heard one of them attempting to explain just how the open shutters and window story might be relevant.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 11:26:01 AM
Your reaction is as expected. You dismss the content of the podcasts as 'dated misinformation' yet don't identify what you disagree with.  Instead your reaction is to launch a personal attack on Mark Saunokonoko and his audience.

There are a lot of people who share this man's doubts and they, like him, are perfectly normal intelligent, law abiding citizens. Personally attacking them looks like desperation to me rather than the best line of defence.

In my opinion there are aspects of the McCann's story which don't make sense. Those who support them have never been able to explain these anomalies imo. Opinions about how the McCann;s felt or on the skills of policemen, judges, interpreters and translators aren't explanations, they're excuses dredged up fron fertile imaginations in my opinion.

The anomalies have been explained... IMO.... And it seems also to the satisfaction of both the UK and Portuguese police ..and that's why the mccanns are no longer suspects and according to the Portuguese there is no evidence against them
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
The anomalies have been explained... IMO.... And it seems also to the satisfaction of both the UK and Portuguese police ..and that's why the mccanns are no longer suspects and according to the Portuguese there is no evidence against them

Surely due to judicial secrecy we won’t know who they are investigating ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 11:50:28 AM
If you believe in woke and wandered how do you explain the open window?

Several possibilities exist including the attempted incursion by a burglar who woke Maddie then ran off.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 11:53:42 AM
The anomalies have been explained... IMO.... And it seems also to the satisfaction of both the UK and Portuguese police ..and that's why the mccanns are no longer suspects and according to the Portuguese there is no evidence against them

IYO only!  Afraid the facts say something quite different.  The McCanns have not been cleared according to the Supreme Court in Portugal and the Portuguese police haven''t disclosed who they are currently investigating.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 11:56:33 AM
IYO only!  Afraid the facts say something quite different.

In your opinion... And it's not only my opinion that the anomalies have been explained... So you are quite wrong there
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 11:57:45 AM
Surely due to judicial secrecy we won’t know who they are investigating ?

I think we know who they are not investigating... Unless Murat etc are, stil in the frame
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 12:01:25 PM
In your opinion... And it's not only my opinion that the anomalies have been explained... So you are quite wrong there

The anomalies are very real, being wise after the fact has never been very clever.  I'm more interested in what happened with the crooked Spanish detectives though, that should make for interesting reading when the PJ get round to investigating it all.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
I think we know who they are not investigating... Unless Murat etc are, stil in the frame

It was you yourself who argued for judicial secrecy.

‘It seems this time the Porto group are respecting judicial secrecy... We will know, all once the investigation finishes’

‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

So explain how we can possibly know who is being investigated?

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 12:07:09 PM
Several possibilities exist including the attempted incursion by a burglar who woke Maddie then ran off.

Isn’t that a coincidence too far for you ? It certainly is for me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 12:07:49 PM
The anomalies are very real, being wise after the fact has never been very clever.  I'm more interested in what happened with the crooked Spanish detectives though, that should make for interesting reading when the PJ get round to investigating it all.

The anomolies are very real in your opinion......as the statements may not be accurate due to translation issues most of the anomolies may not even exist....teh PJ dont seem interested in your claims re the detectives...perhaps because they dont exist either
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 12:09:55 PM
It was you yourself who argued for judicial secrecy.

‘It seems this time the Porto group are respecting judicial secrecy... We will know, all once the investigation finishes’

‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

So explain how we can possibly know who is being investigated?

I havent argued for judicial secrecy ...the PJ can say whatever they wish...SY are more limited
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 12:15:05 PM
I havent argued for judicial secrecy ...the PJ can say whatever they wish...SY are more limited

Of course you have...I’ve quoted you doing just that.

OG can’t talk about the investigation or they would be breaking Portuguese law, as would the PJ, so how an we possibly know who, or what, is being investigated?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 12:21:49 PM
Of course you have...I’ve quoted you doing just that.

OG can’t talk about the investigation or they would be breaking Portuguese law, as would the PJ, so how an we possibly know who, or what, is being investigated?

Ive said they are limited to what they can say...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 12:32:46 PM
Ive said they are limited to what they can say...

No, what you said....and I quote

‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

So tell me again how SY could confirm that the parents are not being investigated without breaking judicial secrecy laws ?
 Further in 2007 we were told by the PJ  that the parents were not suspects at a time when we know they were so obviously the PJ would be unable to confirm or deny the parents were suspects without breaking secrecy laws too.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 10, 2019, 01:22:59 PM
No, what you said....and I quote

‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

So tell me again how SY could confirm that the parents are not being investigated without breaking judicial secrecy laws ?
 Further in 2007 we were told by the PJ  that the parents were not suspects at a time when we know they were so obviously the PJ would be unable to confirm or deny the parents were suspects without breaking secrecy laws too.

quite simple...they are not allowed to discuss wht is beeing investigted but are at liberty to say waht isnt being investigated....
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 01:41:29 PM
quite simple...they are not allowed to discuss wht is beeing investigted but are at liberty to say waht isnt being investigated....

You said it yourself ‘‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’ Not they are allowed to discuss some things but the case in its entirety.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 01:47:52 PM
You said it yourself ‘‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’ Not they are allowed to discuss some things but the case in its entirety.

I think this bit goes over the head... ‘‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

Make it a bit clearer if you will Faith..

For the benefit of the supporters. NOT discussing the case means NOT. So if SY say the McCanns are 'not suspects'innocent' not being investigated- they are breaking the law.  And we should at least be told what they are not suspects ,innocent. not being investgated about. i.e which 'crime' would that be exactly?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 01:59:58 PM
What is a fact is its written in a book,whether it is an actual fact remains open to question  and should be treated as such,good enough.

Posters counted on the fingers of one hand two of them are what can be described as [ censored word ] and mods taboot its not a criticism but a view of what I see.agree or disagree at your will I care not,guest's looking in down from the hunderds to double figures
“No-one except the person who opened the window and raised the shutter has the faintest idea why it was done” which part of that is not factual?.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:03:23 PM
I think this bit goes over the head... ‘‘Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would  be breaking Portuguese law’

Make it a bit clearer if you will Faith..

For the benefit of the supporters. NOT discussing the case means NOT. So if SY say the McCanns are 'not suspects'innocent' not being investigated- they are breaking the law.  And we should at least be told what they are not suspects ,innocent. not being investgated about. i.e which 'crime' would that be exactly?
Both the Met and the PJ have said the McCanns are not suspects so they have both broken the law then, haven’t they?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:06:49 PM
“No-one except the person who opened the window and raised the shutter has the faintest idea why it was done” which part of that is not factual?.

And who would that be... and why did they not close it after them because someone did.

It is also worth noting that Gerry did go to check as well.  there was a problem with the shutters as I recall- a few days before. maybe that is why Dianne couldn't open them. if she couldn't open them and the burglar [promoted through the criminal ranks to abductor] had to use a jemmy?  oh,  yes  it is ALL becoming clear now!!!!!

EURIKA moment!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:09:21 PM
Both the Met and the PJ have said the McCanns are not suspects so they have both broken the law then, haven’t they?

Not suspects in what? did they mention a crime at all?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:12:26 PM
Not suspects in what? did they mention a crime at all?
Not suspects.  Period.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:13:10 PM
And who would that be... and why did they not close it after them because someone did.

It is also worth noting that Gerry did go to check as well.  there was a problem with the shutters as I recall- a few days before. maybe that is why Dianne couldn't open them. if she couldn't open them and the burglar [promoted through the criminal ranks to abductor] had to use a jemmy?  oh,  yes  it is ALL becoming clear now!!!!!

EURIKA moment!
Point spectacularly missed.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:24:31 PM
Point spectacularly missed.

 @)(++(*


No. Not at all infact the penny dropped with regards to why Gerry told his sister the shutters were Jemmied. THEY couldn't be opened wide enough for a person to get in and out! OMG wow what a revellation.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 02:26:58 PM
Isn’t that a coincidence too far for you ? It certainly is for me.

Not sure what you mean by coincidence?  We know that the Ocean Club Gardens complex where the McCanns and their friends were staying was the subject of previous burglaries and attempted burglaries so an attempt to enter 5a via the rear bedroom window is extremely plausible. So is the possibility that said attempted burglary was compromised when Maddie was woken up. A scared child would then run barefoot towards what she thought was safety.  I see no coincidence here, just very logical possibilities and evidence to back it up from two tracker dogs.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 02:31:45 PM
The anomolies are very real in your opinion......as the statements may not be accurate due to translation issues most of the anomolies may not even exist....teh PJ dont seem interested in your claims re the detectives...perhaps because they dont exist either

Afraid you're wrong on both counts, I've had a very positive response to my information.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 10, 2019, 02:34:21 PM
Both the Met and the PJ have said the McCanns are not suspects so they have both broken the law then, haven’t they?

Not according to my sources as SY haven't a clue what happened yet.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:35:34 PM
@)(++(*


No. Not at all infact the penny dropped with regards to why Gerry told his sister the shutters were Jemmied. THEY couldn't be opened wide enough for a person to get in and out! OMG wow what a revellation.
And again.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 02:35:58 PM
Not according to my sources.   @)(++(*
Oh dear. *%87
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 02:39:00 PM
Not suspects in what? did they mention a crime at all?

De Sousa said the parents were not suspects when obviously they were. From that we can extrapolate that due to judicial secrecy the PJ were not allowed to tell us that they were. Why does anyone think that that would be different in this investigation?

In fact I believe it was the parents and not the PJ who told us, in the end, that they were arguidos. Of course I’ll be happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 02:39:43 PM
Not sure what you mean by coincidence?  We know that the Ocean Club Gardens complex where the McCanns and their friends were staying was the subject of previous burglaries and attempted burglaries so an attempt to enter 5a via the rear bedroom window is extremely plausible. So is the possibility that said attempted burglary was compromised when Maddie was woken up. A scared child would then run barefoot towards what she thought was safety.  I see no coincidence here, just very logical possibilities and evidence to back it up from two tracker dogs.

And after she left the apartment?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 10, 2019, 02:47:14 PM
Not sure what you mean by coincidence?  We know that the Ocean Club Gardens complex where the McCanns and their friends were staying was the subject of previous burglaries and attempted burglaries so an attempt to enter 5a via the rear bedroom window is extremely plausible. So is the possibility that said attempted burglary was compromised when Maddie was woken up. A scared child would then run barefoot towards what she thought was safety.  I see no coincidence here, just very logical possibilities and evidence to back it up from two tracker dogs.

Actually, one of my friends came up with that same scenario- saying that the attempeted burglary was hampered by the shutters not working. Just off the phone to him...

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 03:00:35 PM
https://www.9news.com.au/videos/world/what-happened-to-madeleine-mc-cann/cjt21kg07001x0hqrzag1vtpg
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 10, 2019, 04:54:22 PM
Number 1 for Australia and Number 2 on Itunes podcast charts for the UK so many are listening.

(https://i.ibb.co/RpS1Dzb/maddiepodcastcharts.png)

http://www.itunescharts.net/aus/artists/podcast/9podcasts/podcasts/maddie/

(https://i.ibb.co/T2xC2Vd/maddieuk.png)

http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/artists/podcast/9podcasts/podcasts/maddie/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 05:31:30 PM
Number 1 for Australia and Number 2 on Itunes podcast charts for the UK so many are listening.

(https://i.ibb.co/RpS1Dzb/maddiepodcastcharts.png)

http://www.itunescharts.net/aus/artists/podcast/9podcasts/podcasts/maddie/

(https://i.ibb.co/T2xC2Vd/maddieuk.png)

http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/artists/podcast/9podcasts/podcasts/maddie/

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2019, 05:36:33 PM
Your reaction is as expected. You dismss the content of the podcasts as 'dated misinformation' yet don't identify what you disagree with.  Instead your reaction is to launch a personal attack on Mark Saunokonoko and his audience.

There are a lot of people who share this man's doubts and they, like him, are perfectly normal intelligent, law abiding citizens. Personally attacking them looks like desperation to me rather than the best line of defence.

In my opinion there are aspects of the McCann's story which don't make sense. Those who support them have never been able to explain these anomalies imo. Opinions about how the McCann;s felt or on the skills of policemen, judges, interpreters and translators aren't explanations, they're excuses dredged up fron fertile imaginations in my opinion.

I’m not sure that in his podcast enterprise Saunokonoko has quite grasped the reality that two internationally respected police forces have been taking measures for a number of years now to properly investigate Madeleine McCann’s case.

Saunokonoko’s podcast appears to be stuck in events from May 2007 to September 2007 and reliant on information which was subsequently dismissed by the Judicial police in their Final Report to the public prosecutors which covered that period and beyond.

Therefore anyone influenced by that snapshot in time is basing ‘what they know’ on information which has been thoroughly checked out and found to be inaccurate, certainly as far as Madeleine’s parents are concerned.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 10, 2019, 05:54:02 PM
Why do they go over these ridiculous things all the time.   Can anyone for instance give a good reason why Kate would say the window and shutter were open if they weren't?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 10, 2019, 06:08:32 PM
Why do they go over these ridiculous things all the time.   Can anyone for instance give a good reason why Kate would say the window and shutter were open if they weren't?

I can't give you an answer as I find it impossible to understand the McCann mindset.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 06:12:01 PM
Why do they go over these ridiculous things all the time.   Can anyone for instance give a good reason why Kate would say the window and shutter were open if they weren't?

No open window, no evidence of abduction. It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 06:13:11 PM
I’m not sure that in his podcast enterprise Saunokonoko has quite grasped the reality that two internationally respected police forces have been taking measures for a number of years now to properly investigate Madeleine McCann’s case.

Saunokonoko’s podcast appears to be stuck in events from May 2007 to September 2007 and reliant on information which was subsequently dismissed by the Judicial police in their Final Report to the public prosecutors which covered that period and beyond.

Therefore anyone influenced by that snapshot in time is basing ‘what they know’ on information which has been thoroughly checked out and found to be inaccurate, certainly as far as Madeleine’s parents are concerned.

This is a nine episode podcast, be patient.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 10, 2019, 06:20:39 PM
No open window, no evidence of abduction. It really is that simple.

The patio door was open.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 06:33:28 PM
It seems if Kate hadn’t said the window was open then people would be more inclined to believe Madeleine had been abducted  *%87
Furthermore they claimed the window was opened but then made sure it was shut when the police got there to make sure they looked really suspicious! 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 06:42:20 PM
The patio door was open.

Madeleine could open the door.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 10, 2019, 06:48:10 PM
Madeleine could open the door.

Yes she could so why do you think the McCann's said the window and shutters were open?   Madeleine wasn't found she was searched for,  everywhere the McCann's had gone that holiday no sign of her.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 07:04:34 PM
Yes she could so why do you think the McCann's said the window and shutters were open?   Madeleine wasn't found she was searched for,  everywhere the McCann's had gone that holiday no sign of her.

Because neither Madeleine nor the twins could open the window or shutters so someone else would have had to open them......evidence of abduction. No open window, could simply have been walk and wandered.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 10, 2019, 07:16:16 PM
Because neither Madeleine nor the twins could open the window or shutters so someone else would have had to open them......evidence of abduction. No open window, could simply have been walk and wandered.


Kate said Madeleine wouldn't have gone through the patio doors and shut the curtain behind her, opened the child gate and shut it behind her opened the gate at the bottom of the steps and shut it behind her.   Also someone also said if Madeleine had gone out through the patio doors she would have been drawn to the lights of the Tapas and would have gone down to find her parents.    As for the front door did they find Madeleine's prints on it?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2019, 07:19:55 PM
Why do they go over these ridiculous things all the time.   Can anyone for instance give a good reason why Kate would say the window and shutter were open if they weren't?

The fact that Rebelo leading his high powered team personally checked the window of Madeleine's bedroom and tested the feasibility by sending a man through it shows I think that he placed great weight on Kate's eye witness testimony and there is no doubt he that he missed nothing in the course of his inspection.

He was a high powered highly motivated career Judicial police officer who wasn't about to let the side down by missing one shred of evidence to confirm the findings of the Amaral investigation ... I believe he must have been dismayed when the evidence took him in the opposite direction.  Leaving the public prosecutors to affirm that nothing which led Amaral's investigation to make them arguidos stood up to scrutiny.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzrebelo3d.jpg.w300h156.jpg)
An officer attempts to enter the apartment through Maddie's bedroom window
Rebelo tests scenarios in Luz
Correio da Manha - 30 October 2007
Snip
Paulo Rebelo was even one of the elements of the team who paid most attention to the window, having risen and lowered the shutters several times, apparently evaluating its operation.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/rebelo-tests-scenarios-in-luz-cdm-30-10-07-t2344.html

If the podcast tries to rewrite the fact that the Judicial police and public prosecutors could find no criminal fault in Madeleine's parents it quite frankly is nothing more than a waste of bandwith.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 07:21:44 PM
I’m not sure that in his podcast enterprise Saunokonoko has quite grasped the reality that two internationally respected police forces have been taking measures for a number of years now to properly investigate Madeleine McCann’s case.

Saunokonoko’s podcast appears to be stuck in events from May 2007 to September 2007 and reliant on information which was subsequently dismissed by the Judicial police in their Final Report to the public prosecutors which covered that period and beyond.

Therefore anyone influenced by that snapshot in time is basing ‘what they know’ on information which has been thoroughly checked out and found to be inaccurate, certainly as far as Madeleine’s parents are concerned.

The information in the files isn't going to be forgotton no matter how fervently you wish it would. No conclusions were reached and no-one was ruled out at the end of the first investigation.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 07:32:06 PM
The fact that Rebelo leading his high powered team personally checked the window of Madeleine's bedroom and tested the feasibility by sending a man through it shows I think that he placed great weight on Kate's eye witness testimony and there is no doubt he that he missed nothing in the course of his inspection.

He was a high powered highly motivated career Judicial police officer who wasn't about to let the side down by missing one shred of evidence to confirm the findings of the Amaral investigation ... I believe he must have been dismayed when the evidence took him in the opposite direction.  Leaving the public prosecutors to affirm that nothing which led Amaral's investigation to make them arguidos stood up to scrutiny.
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/zzrebelo3d.jpg.w300h156.jpg)
An officer attempts to enter the apartment through Maddie's bedroom window
Rebelo tests scenarios in Luz
Correio da Manha - 30 October 2007
Snip
Paulo Rebelo was even one of the elements of the team who paid most attention to the window, having risen and lowered the shutters several times, apparently evaluating its operation.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/rebelo-tests-scenarios-in-luz-cdm-30-10-07-t2344.html

If the podcast tries to rewrite the fact that the Judicial police and public prosecutors could find no criminal fault in Madeleine's parents it quite frankly is nothing more than a waste of bandwith.

And then Rebelo requested a reconstitution which included questions about the window. His investigations obviously threw up more questions than they answered.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 10, 2019, 07:37:10 PM

Kate said Madeleine wouldn't have gone through the patio doors and shut the curtain behind her, opened the child gate and shut it behind her opened the gate at the bottom of the steps and shut it behind her.   Also someone also said if Madeleine had gone out through the patio doors she would have been drawn to the lights of the Tapas and would have gone down to find her parents.    As for the front door did they find Madeleine's prints on it?

Kate also said to her friends that she and Gerry had left the patio doors open so Madeleine could come and find them if she woke....so which one is it ?

If the window and shutters weren’t open there would be no categorical evidence of abduction.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2019, 07:47:06 PM
The information in the files isn't going to be forgotton no matter how fervently you wish it would. No conclusions were reached and no-one was ruled out at the end of the first investigation.
There was no first investigation if your reference is to the one led by Amaral.  The first investigation started in May 2007 ended with the archiving dispatch of 2008.

Amaral was sacked from the investigation and Almeida the author of the interim report in the PJ files left shortly thereafter leaving the threads to be picked up by Rebelo and his highly competent and perfectly qualified team for such an investigation.

Continuing on from what had gone on before ... the Rebelo team found there was no evidence and never had been which justified the path taken by their predecessors.
If there had been they would have continued on that path and invited Kate and Gerry back to Portugal ... which as arguidos they could not refuse to do ... and taken the process forward from there.

There was no evidence and never had been to justify that course of action.  What evidence there was exonerated them ... which is why the public prosecutors said in effect that they never should have been made suspects in the first instance.

The tragedy of all this is that while police time and resources had been misdirected the focus of the police work on Madeleine was lost and goodness knows what initiatives on her behalf were missed.

I think the classic one being the time and effort spent analysing the phone traffic of the victims but apparently entirely ignoring phone traffic between burglars until it was taken up for investigation by Scotland Yard many years down the line.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 07:59:15 PM
Kate also said to her friends that she and Gerry had left the patio doors open so Madeleine could come and find them if she woke....so which one is it ?

If the window and shutters weren’t open there would be no categorical evidence of abduction.
apparently there was no evidence that the window was opened either so...?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: niklasericson on March 10, 2019, 09:20:20 PM

Kate said Madeleine wouldn't have gone through the patio doors and shut the curtain behind her, opened the child gate and shut it behind her opened the gate at the bottom of the steps and shut it behind her.   Also someone also said if Madeleine had gone out through the patio doors she would have been drawn to the lights of the Tapas and would have gone down to find her parents.    As for the front door did they find Madeleine's prints on it?
"Shut the curtains"?
A small child can easily go through and behind curtains without open them.
How do we know that the gates were closed and locked?
Any independent witnesses?
For some reasons the OC replaced the small gate with a big door after what happened and take a look at view from the top of the stairs, it would only take a second or two for a child to run out on the street, dark and with a restricted view a driver would have no chance to stop a car.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 10, 2019, 10:20:32 PM
There was no first investigation if your reference is to the one led by Amaral.  The first investigation started in May 2007 ended with the archiving dispatch of 2008.

Amaral was sacked from the investigation and Almeida the author of the interim report in the PJ files left shortly thereafter leaving the threads to be picked up by Rebelo and his highly competent and perfectly qualified team for such an investigation.

Continuing on from what had gone on before ... the Rebelo team found there was no evidence and never had been which justified the path taken by their predecessors.
If there had been they would have continued on that path and invited Kate and Gerry back to Portugal ... which as arguidos they could not refuse to do ... and taken the process forward from there.

There was no evidence and never had been to justify that course of action. What evidence there was exonerated them ... which is why the public prosecutors said in effect that they never should have been made suspects in the first instance.

The tragedy of all this is that while police time and resources had been misdirected the focus of the police work on Madeleine was lost and goodness knows what initiatives on her behalf were missed.

I think the classic one being the time and effort spent analysing the phone traffic of the victims but apparently entirely ignoring phone traffic between burglars until it was taken up for investigation by Scotland Yard many years down the line.

The public prosecutors made it quite clear. When their friends refused to attend the reconstitution;

We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2019, 10:58:15 PM
The public prosecutors made it quite clear. When their friends refused to attend the reconstitution;

We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Quote
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated.
Portimão, 21.07.08
 
The Republic’s Prosecutor
 
(José de Magalhães e Menezes)
 
The Joint General Prosecutor
 
(João Melchior Gomes)
 
in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS – Volume XVII – pages 4639-4649 (Public Prosecutor’s Archiving Dispatch)


What the friends chose to do was entirely a matter for them.  It in no way detracts from the prosecutors' declaration that the reasons the missing child's parents were made suspects in the first instance were entirely unsubstantiated on investigation as detailed above (for the umpteenth time).

In other words ... had the police initially done their job with a modicum of competence ... they would have been capable of ascertaining that before making Kate and Gerry official suspects.

That is a very big issue under any circumstances but in deflecting the investigation away from throwing everything into finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann it must rank as one of the major police mistakes ever in a missing child investigation due to the investigators being completely out of their depth.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 10, 2019, 11:14:18 PM
The public prosecutors made it quite clear. When their friends refused to attend the reconstitution;

We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Which is the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever read, frankly.  A reconstitution could in no way have proven their innocence and to claim it could is disingenuous claptrap of the highest order.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 11, 2019, 06:51:01 AM
Which is the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever read, frankly.  A reconstitution could in no way have proven their innocence and to claim it could is disingenuous claptrap of the highest order.
Of course you knowledge of such things is of an experience equal to and above that of the PJ at the time.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 07:05:09 AM
Quote
To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated.
Portimão, 21.07.08
 
The Republic’s Prosecutor
 
(José de Magalhães e Menezes)
 
The Joint General Prosecutor
 
(João Melchior Gomes)
 
in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS – Volume XVII – pages 4639-4649 (Public Prosecutor’s Archiving Dispatch)


What the friends chose to do was entirely a matter for them.  It in no way detracts from the prosecutors' declaration that the reasons the missing child's parents were made suspects in the first instance were entirely unsubstantiated on investigation as detailed above (for the umpteenth time).

In other words ... had the police initially done their job with a modicum of competence ... they would have been capable of ascertaining that before making Kate and Gerry official suspects.

That is a very big issue under any circumstances but in deflecting the investigation away from throwing everything into finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann it must rank as one of the major police mistakes ever in a missing child investigation due to the investigators being completely out of their depth.

The situation, therefore, when the archiving dispatch was written was that the PJ couldn't prove guilt, but neither could the McCanns prove innocence. They weren't 'cleared', there was no evidence which exonerated them, it was stalemate. The PJ couldn't even identify the crime.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 07:13:45 AM
Which is the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever read, frankly.  A reconstitution could in no way have proven their innocence and to claim it could is disingenuous claptrap of the highest order.

That;s not the point. The point is that a prosecutor who thought that;

snip/
"What evidence there was exonerated them"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.75

wouldn't have written that paragraph.


 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 07:20:29 AM
Of course you knowledge of such things is of an experience equal to and above that of the PJ at the time.
It is plain common sense, if you can’t appreciate that, then I can’t help you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 07:25:12 AM
That;s not the point. The point is that a prosecutor who thought that;

snip/
"What evidence there was exonerated them"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.75

wouldn't have written that paragraph.
The point is it was a damnfool stupid observation, written in a Portuguese judicial summary which just goes to show the level of understanding and intelligence  the McCanns have had to deal with pretty much from day one. IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 07:25:50 AM
The latest podcast says Murat has been thoroughly investigated by Portuguese police... Has been awarded damages for being wrongly implicated in the case and has been cleared.... Why doesn't that apply to the mccanns
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 07:32:31 AM
That;s not the point. The point is that a prosecutor who thought that;

snip/
"What evidence there was exonerated them"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.75

wouldn't have written that paragraph.

Are we back to the mccanns having to prove their innocence and not being entitled to the presumption of innocence
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 08:06:56 AM
The point is it was a damnfool stupid observation, written in a Portuguese judicial summary which just goes to show the level of understanding and intelligence  the McCanns have had to deal with pretty much from day one. IMO.

Those damnfool stupid prosecutors who wrote an archiving dspatch upon which the McCanns based their claim of being cleared. Perhaps they should have read all of it before making that claim? As the SC judges pointed out; the contents didn't fit with the conclusion upon which the McCanns and their 'experts' relied.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 08:11:27 AM
Those damnfool stupid prosecutors who wrote an archiving dspatch upon which the McCanns based their claim of being cleared. Perhaps they should have read all of it before making that claim? As the SC judges pointed out; the contents didn't fit with the conclusion upon which the McCanns and their 'experts' relied.
It was all they had to work with and perhaps they hoped that the court would realise the stupidity or mendacity of that particular passage.  It would have been more honest and more logical if it had read
“We believe the main damage caused to our case against the McCanns was their failure to turn up to our reconstitution which we hoped would prove them guilty”. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 08:11:51 AM
Those damnfool stupid prosecutors who wrote an archiving dspatch upon which the McCanns based their claim of being cleared. Perhaps they should have read all of it before making that claim? As the SC judges pointed out; the contents didn't fit with the conclusion upon which the McCanns and their 'experts' relied.

The SC judges read in the court transcripts that the dogs signalled cadaver odour in several places...were they aware this was not confirmed ....I think possibly not
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 08:43:23 AM
Are we back to the mccanns having to prove their innocence and not being entitled to the presumption of innocence

No, it's not about that. It's about whether the public prosecutors declared them innocent, as they and their supporters claim or whether they didn't, as the SC judges ruled.

Article 277/1 says;

The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Yipee! That does indeed suggest that they were cleared. The contents of the document say quite clearly, however, that they were not. That's why the SC judges said the case should have been archived ubder 277/2;

The investigation shall also be closed if it had not been possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence confirming the crime or who were the authors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

277/2 fits what the prosecutors actually said;

While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

That means they didn't identify the crime. If they couldn't identify the crime they could  hardly say who did or didn't commit it. That would be saying "We don't know what happened to Madeleine but we know her parents didn't do it" That makes no sense.
'

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 08:46:16 AM
No, it's not about that. It's about whether the public prosecutors declared them innocent, as they and their supporters claim or whether they didn't, as the SC judges ruled.

Article 277/1 says;

The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Yipee! That does indeed suggest that they were cleared. The contents of the document say quite clearly, however, that they were not. That's why the SC judges said the case should have been archived ubder 277/2;

The investigation shall also be closed if it had not been possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence confirming the crime or who were the authors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

277/2 fits what the prosecutors actually said;

While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

That means they didn't identify the crime. If they couldn't identify the crime they could  hardly say who did or didn't commit it. That would be saying "We don't know what happened to Madeleine but we know her parents didn't do it" That makes no sense.
'
Of course it makes sense.  Apply that logic to any number of other cases: Needham, Lawrence, etc

We don’t know what crime was committed but we know Murat didn’t do it - does thst make no sense to you?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 08:48:14 AM
It was all they had to work with and perhaps they hoped that the court would realise the stupidity or mendacity of that particular passage.  It would have been more honest and more logical if it had read
“We believe the main damage caused to our case against the McCanns was their failure to turn up to our reconstitution which we hoped would prove them guilty”.

I'm afraid they said what they said, not hat you think they should have said.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 11, 2019, 08:50:03 AM
"Shut the curtains"?
A small child can easily go through and behind curtains without open them.
How do we know that the gates were closed and locked?
Any independent witnesses?
For some reasons the OC replaced the small gate with a big door after what happened and take a look at view from the top of the stairs, it would only take a second or two for a child to run out on the street, dark and with a restricted view a driver would have no chance to stop a car.

Did the driver then stop to clean the blood off the road?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 08:50:35 AM
Of course it makes sense.  Apply that logic to any number of other cases: Needham, Lawrence, etc

We don’t know what crime was committed but we know Murat didn’t do it - does thst make no sense to you?

Did they say that? A cite would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 08:51:17 AM
I'm afraid they said what they said, not hat you think they should have said.
You don’t say!  And I’m saying that what they said was beyond idiotic, IMO.  I’m sure anyone who possesses the ability to think logically would have to agree even if they refuse to admit it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
Did they say that? A cite would be appreciated.
It was a rhetorical question which I am asking so that you can apply your critical faculties to a scenario that doesn’t involve the McCanns and to hopefully highlight the idiocy of your proposition.  IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 09:16:06 AM
You don’t say!  And I’m saying that what they said was beyond idiotic, IMO.  I’m sure anyone who possesses the ability to think logically would have to agree even if they refuse to admit it.


They didn't seem to be all that bright. They used the wrong part of Article 277 in their archiving dispatch too. Those relying on the prosecutors to support their positions (including the McCanns) are putting their faith in the wrong people it seems.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 09:24:52 AM
No, it's not about that. It's about whether the public prosecutors declared them innocent, as they and their supporters claim or whether they didn't, as the SC judges ruled.

Article 277/1 says;

The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Yipee! That does indeed suggest that they were cleared. The contents of the document say quite clearly, however, that they were not. That's why the SC judges said the case should have been archived ubder 277/2;

The investigation shall also be closed if it had not been possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence confirming the crime or who were the authors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

277/2 fits what the prosecutors actually said;

While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

That means they didn't identify the crime. If they couldn't identify the crime they could  hardly say who did or didn't commit it. That would be saying "We don't know what happened to Madeleine but we know her parents didn't do it" That makes no sense.
'

of course they were not declared innocent...and as far as I know they have never claimed to be declared innocent...


we don't know what happened to Maddie but its clear her parents were not involved
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 09:33:10 AM

They didn't seem to be all that bright. They used the wrong part of Article 277 in their archiving dispatch too. Those relying on the prosecutors to support their positions (including the McCanns) are putting their faith in the wrong people it seems.
AS I said earlier, it's all they had to work with.  Surely you can appreciate the Kafkaesque nightmare of their situation, if you can for just one second imagine the possibility that they didn't have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  I know it's hard but try!
[Definition of Kafkaesque. : of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings especially : having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality Kafkaesque bureaucratic delays.]
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 11, 2019, 09:34:39 AM
https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/man-with-no-face
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 09:47:03 AM
AS I said earlier, it's all they had to work with.  Surely you can appreciate the Kafkaesque nightmare of their situation, if you can for just one second imagine the possibility that they didn't have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  I know it's hard but try!

I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 09:56:11 AM
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.

doubts do not make someone guilty...evidence does.....people need to remember that
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 11, 2019, 10:15:27 AM
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
The Amaral investigation may have had their doubts which propelled them into declaring them formal suspects in the days prior to a change in the law which would not have allowed such an action without supporting evidence ... which as we have seen did not exist.
The Rebelo team relied on what evidence there was which when presented to the public prosecutors led to the case being archived and the arguido status - which should never have been imposed in the first instance - being lifted.

Proper interpretation of the forensic results sent from the FSS being paramount in this.

What exactly do you mean by "behaviour"???  Are you basing your assessment of this on the opinion of the 'body language experts' on Portuguese television etc making capital out of which ear Gerry scratched or Kate not crying to suit or shedding a tear on cue?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
Did you address my point or did you neatly dodge it? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 11, 2019, 10:49:00 AM
The Amaral investigation may have had their doubts which propelled them into declaring them formal suspects in the days prior to a change in the law which would not have allowed such an action without supporting evidence ... which as we have seen did not exist.
The Rebelo team relied on what evidence there was which when presented to the public prosecutors led to the case being archived and the arguido status - which should never have been imposed in the first instance - being lifted.

Proper interpretation of the forensic results sent from the FSS being paramount in this.

What exactly do you mean by "behaviour"???  Are you basing your assessment of this on the opinion of the 'body language experts' on Portuguese television etc making capital out of which ear Gerry scratched or Kate not crying to suit or shedding a tear on cue?
&%%6

Please ignore Kate's book, again, when she wrote that the McCann's had announced their decision to leave Portugal.  Not even Kate claims it had anything to do with a legal change that would occur around 8 days later.

 &%%6
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 11:03:31 AM
doubts do not make someone guilty...evidence does.....people need to remember that

I never said they did. I said they were the source of the doubts, no-one else. In a sumilar vein beliefs don't make someone innocent, evidence does. People need to remember that also.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 11:06:04 AM
I never said they did. I said they were the source of the doubts, no-one else. In a sumilar vein beliefs don't make someone innocent, evidence does. People need to remember that also.
the lack of incriminating evidence points to innocence...but innocence is often impossible to prove......there is plenty of evidence to support the mccanns innocence
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 11:14:51 AM
The Amaral investigation may have had their doubts which propelled them into declaring them formal suspects in the days prior to a change in the law which would not have allowed such an action without supporting evidence ... which as we have seen did not exist.
The Rebelo team relied on what evidence there was which when presented to the public prosecutors led to the case being archived and the arguido status - which should never have been imposed in the first instance - being lifted.

Proper interpretation of the forensic results sent from the FSS being paramount in this.

What exactly do you mean by "behaviour"???  Are you basing your assessment of this on the opinion of the 'body language experts' on Portuguese television etc making capital out of which ear Gerry scratched or Kate not crying to suit or shedding a tear on cue?

Behaviour includes speech, demeanor and actions. Many people found much of it unconvincing for all sorts of reasons.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 11:37:41 AM
Behaviour includes speech, demeanor and actions. Many people found much of it unconvincing for all sorts of reasons.
Not the FLO's they didn't.  Granted the Portuguese police may have done, but then they had language and cultural issues which may have coloured their perception. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 11, 2019, 11:51:12 AM
&%%6

Please ignore Kate's book, again, when she wrote that the McCann's had announced their decision to leave Portugal.  Not even Kate claims it had anything to do with a legal change that would occur around 8 days later.

 &%%6

You have totally misrepresented what I said in my post.  Please desist.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 11, 2019, 11:54:22 AM
Not the FLO's they didn't.  Granted the Portuguese police may have done, but then they had language and cultural issues which may have coloured their perception.

They were also in haste to have the case wrapped up and out of the way and the McCanns might have been an obstruction to that in that they wanted their daughter found.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 11, 2019, 12:04:36 PM
You have totally misrepresented what I said in my post.  Please desist.
I will look up the specific quote from Kate's book, yet again,
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 11, 2019, 12:17:33 PM
I will look up the specific quote from Kate's book, yet again,

You have totally misunderstood my post which has absolutely nothing to do with anything Kate said or did at any time.

Please read my original post again for clarification.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 11, 2019, 12:49:45 PM
I will look up the specific quote from Kate's book, yet again,
You seem to feel the need to modify my posts my posts heavily?  Why?

If you can't answer simple questions with KISS, it is very revealing.

One of our dogs, Sky, never backs off.    I don't either.

You can bring this to an end by simply replying.  Or can you?

 *%87
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 11, 2019, 01:04:25 PM
They were also in haste to have the case wrapped up and out of the way and the McCanns might have been an obstruction to that in that they wanted their daughter found.

I think you'll find it was the other way round. They acted while they could after being told that the McCanns were leaving.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 11, 2019, 01:53:14 PM
Number 1 on UK charts now.

http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/charts/podcasts/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 11, 2019, 01:54:55 PM

Some of these comments are bordering on Libel.  Please stop now, because I am not having this.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 11, 2019, 01:56:01 PM
Number 1 on UK charts now.

http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/charts/podcasts/
Great, I shall be tuning in on Thursday evening to watch him on Top Of the Pops.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 11, 2019, 02:00:02 PM
Number 1 on UK charts now.

http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/charts/podcasts/

Strangely CMOMM have removed all reference to it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 12, 2019, 10:27:15 AM
Strangely CMOMM have removed all reference to it

I wonder why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 11:44:01 AM
Strangely CMOMM have removed all reference to it

No they haven't.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 11:48:46 AM
Here is a link to all the podcasts on nine news

https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/playlists/podcast
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 11:48:57 AM
No they haven't.

I'm fairly sure, there, was a thread on it which seems Ti have disappeared
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:49:32 AM
Here is a link to all the podcasts on nine news

https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/playlists/podcast
Would you recommend them? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 12:13:07 PM
I'm fairly sure, there, was a thread on it which seems Ti have disappeared

It hasn't.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 12, 2019, 12:15:14 PM
Would you recommend them?

Only if I was drumming up numbers for the purpose of enhancing sponsorship payments ... if that is how it works.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 12:27:47 PM
I'm fairly sure, there, was a thread on it which seems Ti have disappeared


There was a thread but it seems to have been hidden from public viewing.
Members only?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 12:30:34 PM
It hasn't.

It's disappeared ..if it's been hidden it's disappeared
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 12:35:50 PM
The podcasts, are simply rehashing the old findings and views..he has said he has something  new in the DNA front and I suspect it's something to di with True Allele which looks, at mixed samples... I dint think it will be if any use in this case... We will see
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
Would you recommend them?

It's up to you what you do. I suggest you listen if you want to comment on this thread.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 12:47:52 PM
It's up to you what you do. I suggest you listen if you want to comment on this thread.
Have you listened to them all?  Do they tell you anything you didn't already know, or were any opinions voiced you hadn't already heard?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 12:58:33 PM
It's disappeared ..if it's been hidden it's disappeared

Your opriginal claim that  they had 'removed all reference to it' was incorrect. Just because you can'r see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 01:02:02 PM
Your opriginal claim that  they had 'removed all reference to it' was incorrect. Just because you can'r see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Why has it been hidden?  I thought there would be mucho gloating?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 12, 2019, 01:09:38 PM
The podcasts, are simply rehashing the old findings and views..he has said he has something  new in the DNA front and I suspect it's something to di with True Allele which looks, at mixed samples... I dint think it will be if any use in this case... We will see

I agree but you would think they would report all the facts nearly 12 years on.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 01:10:14 PM
Have you listened to them all?  Do they tell you anything you didn't already know, or were any opinions voiced you hadn't already heard?

I will comment if and when I feel the need.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 01:16:37 PM
Your opriginal claim that  they had 'removed all reference to it' was incorrect. Just because you can'r see something doesn't mean it's not there.
ess

It was on site for public view.   ...it's now disappeared...if you wish to disagree fine..  But it's pointless to argue, as you seem to want to do... And it begs the question.. Why
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 12, 2019, 01:27:24 PM
I agree but you would think they would report all the facts nearly 12 years on.

In my opinion CMOMM are now in a similar position to those who support the McCann;s version of events. Both groups believe they know what happened so anything that doesn't fit with their beliefs has to be rejected.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 01:28:19 PM
I agree but you would think they would report all the facts nearly 12 years on.

He is pushing parental involvement so he's reporting what suits him... He reports that petermac says, the window is to small fir a man to climb through... Which it false ... But doesn't report that petermac says the shutters can be opened fron the outside... Preferring amarals opinion that the shutters, couldn't be opened from the outside.. Which again is, false
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 01:33:49 PM
Is there any sceptic here who has actually listened to these podcasts who is prepared to offer an opinion on the content?  Or is it simply enough that they exist and question the parents' version of events, no matter how many falsehoods or myths they contain?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 12, 2019, 01:36:42 PM
Is there any sceptic here who has actually listened to these podcasts who is prepared to offer an opinion on the content?  Or is it simply enough that they exist and question the parents' version of events, no matter how many falsehoods or myths they contain?

Got it in one. It's not causing sceptics any angst
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 12, 2019, 01:55:12 PM
Smithman can hide Maddy but not his overconfident cocky self! Best play the mute role again!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 01:56:31 PM
Got it in one. It's not causing sceptics any angst
On the contrary, it seems to be causing a lot of happiness in those circles, obviously they have very low standards when it comes to supposedly fact-based podcasts...  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 02:04:48 PM
It’s interesting that I have not found one podcast which actively supports the parents innocence.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 02:06:48 PM
It’s interesting that I have not found one podcast which actively supports the parents innocence.
Podcasts of this nature are the preserve of people who feel that their causes are being ignored by the "MSM" in my experience....  Why would anyone need to make a podcast supporting the parents' innocence??  Has anyone made a podcast supporting the idea that Al Qaeda flew planes into the twin towers?  Or that man landed on the moon? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 12, 2019, 03:57:29 PM
Why the obsession with going over the first four months of a botched police investigation in a pejorative way aimed solely at decrying the parents of a missing child.

The first hours and days were the crucial time in which to have any chance of finding out what happened to Madeleine when everything was fresh in witnesses' minds.

In my opinion the incompetence married to the ineptitude of the investigators over the first four months set the seal on any chance Madeleine had either of being recovered shortly after she disappeared or finding what had become of her.
The police tactic of tainting those first four vital months of the investigation with defamatory leaks to the press designed to decry eye witness statements and to assassinate the character of the victim's parents later the accused, could never have helped to solve whatever or whoever happened to Madeleine.
It was only a barrier to solving the case particularly as the golden hours crucial in a missing child case were squandered as a result.

Amaral's sacking came too late in the day to undo that level of harm.

Why eulogise the botched ideas which led to the four months of a botched investigation in a niche podcast for the few believers in the excellence of the first four months of the police investigation?
It flies in the face of the fact that Amaral ... the coordinator ... was sacked from it ignominiously.

It was the Portuguese authorities who did that ... so they must have had good reason.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 04:31:52 PM
Why the obsession with going over the first four months of a botched police investigation in a pejorative way aimed solely at decrying the parents of a missing child.

The first hours and days were the crucial time in which to have any chance of finding out what happened to Madeleine when everything was fresh in witnesses' minds.

In my opinion the incompetence married to the ineptitude of the investigators over the first four months set the seal on any chance Madeleine had either of being recovered shortly after she disappeared or finding what had become of her.
The police tactic of tainting those first four vital months of the investigation with defamatory leaks to the press designed to decry eye witness statements and to assassinate the character of the victim's parents later the accused, could never have helped to solve whatever or whoever happened to Madeleine.
It was only a barrier to solving the case particularly as the golden hours crucial in a missing child case were squandered as a result.

Amaral's sacking came too late in the day to undo that level of harm.

Why eulogise the botched ideas which led to the four months of a botched investigation in a niche podcast for the few believers in the excellence of the first four months of the police investigation?
It flies in the face of the fact that Amaral ... the coordinator ... was sacked from it ignominiously.

It was the Portuguese authorities who did that ... so they must have had good reason.

Of course they did...and we’ve been told the reason... he spoke off the record in a disparaging way about the U.K. police involved in the investigation. I find it rather disingenuous for you to suggest that there was more to it on the Portuguese side then that.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 04:38:36 PM
Why the obsession with going over the first four months of a botched police investigation in a pejorative way aimed solely at decrying the parents of a missing child.

The first hours and days were the crucial time in which to have any chance of finding out what happened to Madeleine when everything was fresh in witnesses' minds.

In my opinion the incompetence married to the ineptitude of the investigators over the first four months set the seal on any chance Madeleine had either of being recovered shortly after she disappeared or finding what had become of her.
The police tactic of tainting those first four vital months of the investigation with defamatory leaks to the press designed to decry eye witness statements and to assassinate the character of the victim's parents later the accused, could never have helped to solve whatever or whoever happened to Madeleine.
It was only a barrier to solving the case particularly as the golden hours crucial in a missing child case were squandered as a result.

Amaral's sacking came too late in the day to undo that level of harm.

Why eulogise the botched ideas which led to the four months of a botched investigation in a niche podcast for the few believers in the excellence of the first four months of the police investigation?
It flies in the face of the fact that Amaral ... the coordinator ... was sacked from it ignominiously.

It was the Portuguese authorities who did that ... so they must have had good reason.
8@??)(
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 04:41:44 PM
Smithman can hide Maddy but not his overconfident cocky self! Best play the mute role again!
A non sequitur if ever there was one, and one that was liked by our resident Objective Evaluator of the Facts.  How very strange, I wonder what there was to like about this post?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 05:45:45 PM
Got it in one. It's not causing sceptics any angst

I can only speak for myself as a "supporter"  but it is certainly not causing me any "angst".
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 12, 2019, 05:57:15 PM
I can only speak for myself as a "supporter"  but it is certainly not causing me any "angst".

No,no, of course not. I bet you are really happy that the blog is out there available to a wide audience.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 06:07:24 PM
No,no, of course not. I bet you are really happy that the blog is out there available to a wide audience.
It doesn’t matter if all 7 billion people on the planet listen to it, it changes nothing.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 12, 2019, 06:11:05 PM
It doesn’t matter if all 7 billion people on the planet listen to it, it changes nothing.

Is that you, Theresa ?   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 06:11:43 PM
No,no, of course not. I bet you are really happy that the blog is out there available to a wide audience.

Don’t forget No.1 in the itune charts.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 06:12:12 PM
Is that you, Theresa ?   @)(++(*
Yes, just taking a break to log on to the JF before the big vote later. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 06:14:34 PM
Don’t forget No.1 in the itune charts.
I thought that was George Ezra?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 12, 2019, 06:25:39 PM
Of course they did...and we’ve been told the reason... he spoke off the record in a disparaging way about the U.K. police involved in the investigation. I find it rather disingenuous for you to suggest that there was more to it on the Portuguese side then that.

I wonder why he spoke off the record in a disparaging way about the UK police involved in the investigation, when he said they supported his theory?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 06:50:32 PM
I wonder why he spoke off the record in a disparaging way about the UK police involved in the investigation, when he said they supported his theory?

No idea but it was very naughty of Brietta to suggest that we didn’t know the reason.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 07:03:40 PM
No idea but it was very naughty of Brietta to suggest that we didn’t know the reason.
A bit like when you suggest that when the Met say they aren’t treating the McCanns as suspects it means that they are..  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 07:43:44 PM
I thought that was George Ezra?

A very favourite of mine and hubby's.
Grandchildren all off to see him soon..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 08:34:52 PM
No they haven't.

I'm fairly sure, there, was a thread on it which seems Ti have disappeared
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 08:41:07 PM
I'm fairly sure, there, was a thread on it which seems Ti have disappeared

There was.
It has been removed from public viewing.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 08:43:50 PM
Supporters here seem to spend more time on CMOMM than the so called sceptics.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 12, 2019, 08:47:53 PM
A very favourite of mine and hubby's.
Grandchildren all off to see him soon..

Mine too... Budapest
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 08:58:49 PM
Mine too... Budapest

Hard to choose.
So many great songs.
Love the video he did with Sir Ian McKellen.
Brilliant!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 12, 2019, 09:48:28 PM
Supporters here seem to spend more time on CMOMM than the so called sceptics.

It's a very interesting site to view.
Never tempted to have a look?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 10:18:06 PM
It’s interesting that when you go on itunes itself and type in “podcasts” there is no sign at all of their alleged number one podcast.  Why is that I wonder...?  Also, no podcast chart on the actual itunes. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 12, 2019, 10:26:55 PM
Here is a link to all the podcasts on nine news

https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/playlists/podcast
It gets a bit confusing as to the order that they should be viewed, or is the no special order?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 12, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
It’s interesting that when you go on itunes itself and type in “podcasts” there is no sign at all of their alleged number one podcast.  Why is that I wonder...?  Also, no podcast chart on the actual itunes.
http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/charts/podcasts/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 10:31:41 PM
http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/charts/podcasts/
That website is not the official itunes page, it’s done by a third party.  Have a look at the real itunes.

From the website you linked to above:

How are these charts calculated?

The short answer is "we don't know". They're calculated and compiled by iTunes, we can only assume they're based on downloads. Given that the published charts are presented as "live" rather than covering any specified timeslot, there's obviously some kind of algorithm at play, but beyond that it's anybody's guess. Podcast charts are slightly different since these are charts of "channels" producing content on a rolling basis, rather than a finished product like an album or a song. Again, the chart is most likely based on downloads but may also be based on new subscriptions too.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 10:43:04 PM
After some time digging about on itunes I have found their podcast chart and it would seem Maddie is number one based on all nine episodes together, whereas individual episodes rank much lower down the chart.  There is certainly no mention of Maddie on the itunes podcast front page however. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 12, 2019, 10:57:03 PM
That website is not the official itunes page, it’s done by a third party.  Have a look at the real itunes.

From the website you linked to above:

How are these charts calculated?

The short answer is "we don't know". They're calculated and compiled by iTunes, we can only assume they're based on downloads. Given that the published charts are presented as "live" rather than covering any specified timeslot, there's obviously some kind of algorithm at play, but beyond that it's anybody's guess. Podcast charts are slightly different since these are charts of "channels" producing content on a rolling basis, rather than a finished product like an album or a song. Again, the chart is most likely based on downloads but may also be based on new subscriptions too.

Sorry, I didn't read the small print. :(
When it was first published I signed up to itunes then discovered a monthly fee is payable after 30 days free trial.  The podcast is also available on GooglePlay for free, which is the method I used to listen to the first three episodes. I wonder where GP's listening figures are correlated for Mark's podcasts?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:04:23 PM
Sorry, I didn't read the small print. :(
When it was first published I signed up to itunes then discovered a monthly fee is payable after 30 days free trial.  The podcast is also available on GooglePlay for free, which is the method I used to listen to the first three episodes. I wonder where GP's listening figures are correlated for Mark's podcasts?
I thought you had to pay a subscription for googleplay too.  I find the whole thing a bit baffling tbh, would rather listen to Radio Four. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:07:16 PM
Interesting...
https://podnews.net/article/rotten-apple-podcast-charts

https://podnews.net/article/apple-podcast-charts-manipulated-proof
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:09:31 PM
Ooh, ever so interesting
https://podnews.net/update/airtasker-podcast-charts
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:15:47 PM
Hmmmm....

https://chartable.com/blog/chartbreakers
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 12, 2019, 11:17:13 PM
I thought you had to pay a subscription for googleplay too.  I find the whole thing a bit baffling tbh, would rather listen to Radio Four.

Maybe you do now if you stream music on GP but I don't use my phone for that. Certainly the GP podcast app is free to listen to, although I couldn't download it onto my laptop, only my phone.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:19:39 PM
https://www.cultofmac.com/593398/it-only-costs-5-to-game-apples-podcast-charts/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 12, 2019, 11:23:41 PM
Hmmmm....

https://chartable.com/blog/chartbreakers

In line with much of the McCann case, nothing is as it seems. To be fair to Saunokonoko, though, I think the publicity on Australian TV & Social Media probably has generated several thousand listeners.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 12, 2019, 11:30:02 PM
In line with much of the McCann case, nothing is as it seems. To be fair to Saunokonoko, though, I think the publicity on Australian TV & Social Media probably has generated several thousand listeners.

One individual putting in all that effort for why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 11:36:38 PM
It's a very interesting site to view.
Never tempted to have a look?

Nope.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 12, 2019, 11:40:32 PM
One individual putting in all that effort for why?

I guess he's just as obsessed with the case as we are, possibly as a result of the intense coverage of William Tyrrell's disappearance down under.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 12, 2019, 11:40:51 PM
One individual putting in all that effort for why?

Perhaps because  he’s a journalist and he’s doing his job ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 12, 2019, 11:44:30 PM
Perhaps because  he’s a journalist and he’s doing his job ?
What has he uncovered?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 12, 2019, 11:53:23 PM
What has he uncovered?
What could he uncover being stuck in a time warp?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 13, 2019, 12:01:58 AM
I think it would have been remiss of the journalist if he hadn’t recapped the foundations of this case. Remember this is a nine part series and we are only three episodes in. Can I also remind supporters that Mr Summers and wife’s tome was simply a rehash of old newspaper articles with bits of the Portuguese files thrown in for good measure and, as far as I could see, had not one scintilla of original investigative work between its covers.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 13, 2019, 07:23:55 AM
I think it would have been remiss of the journalist if he hadn’t recapped the foundations of this case. Remember this is a nine part series and we are only three episodes in. Can I also remind supporters that Mr Summers and wife’s tome was simply a rehash of old newspaper articles with bits of the Portuguese files thrown in for good measure and, as far as I could see, had not one scintilla of original investigative work between its covers.
For which you and Maddie’s Barmy Army gave it a right royal shredding online.  Something tells me you’ll be kinder to Mark Unpronounceable ‘s podcasts.  I wonder why.... @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 13, 2019, 10:59:26 AM
For which you and Maddie’s Barmy Army gave it a right royal shredding online.  Something tells me you’ll be kinder to Mark Unpronounceable ‘s podcasts.  I wonder why.... @)(++(*
&%%6
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 13, 2019, 02:28:42 PM
A very favourite of mine and hubby's.
Grandchildren all off to see him soon..

I love 'Shotgun'
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 13, 2019, 02:52:30 PM
I love 'Shotgun'

Gosh.  So do I.  You can actually sing along.  But I didn't know who it was.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 13, 2019, 05:55:19 PM
&%%6
You are rather fond of the Wow! emoticon aren’t you?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 13, 2019, 08:18:04 PM
You are rather fond of the Wow! emoticon aren’t you?
It depends entirely on the amount of dross broadcast on here.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 13, 2019, 08:29:25 PM
It depends entirely on the amount of dross broadcast on here.
&%%6
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
The Sun being called to account........again.


(https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/27/35/84/scree111.jpg)

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 14, 2019, 11:56:11 AM
The Sun being called to account........again.


(https://i.servimg.com/u/f21/19/27/35/84/scree111.jpg)

Sone if us, already realise papers misquote.... Every time the spoken wird passes, from one to another there is the possibility for error
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
Sone if us, already realise papers misquote.... Every time the spoken wird passes, from one to another there is the possibility for error
I think once the genie is out of the bottle it stays out.

I wonder if Colin Sutton has never wondered why it took Rebelo to think about a reconstruction months after the event ... and Amaral did not bother at any time when he was the case coordinator?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2019, 12:17:01 PM
Sone if us, already realise papers misquote.... Every time the spoken wird passes, from one to another there is the possibility for error

Error or deliberate distortion by a journalist who lacks integrity?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 14, 2019, 12:26:25 PM
Error or deliberate distortion by a journalist who lacks integrity?

Who knows.. That's why I prefer accurate verbatim statements... Less room for error
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2019, 03:05:34 PM
Who knows.. That's why I prefer accurate verbatim statements... Less room for error

There are a couple of rogatory interviews which could qualify as specialist subjects on Mastermind in my opinion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 14, 2019, 03:11:28 PM
There are a couple of rogatory interviews which could qualify as specialist subjects on Mastermind in my opinion.

You mean on how to waffle an answer?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 14, 2019, 04:53:13 PM
You mean on how to waffle an answer?
Waffles.  Yum!

 &^^&*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2019, 05:56:46 PM
You mean on how to waffle an answer?

Waffle and not answer more like.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 08:40:25 AM
https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/23/20/27/madeleine-mccann-dna-car-evidence-could-now-be-solved-maddie-podcast

EXCLUSIVE: Maddie's DNA could be present in crucial samples as world expert rips up 'failed' UK forensic tests

One of the world's leading DNA scientists – whose lab helped identify victims of the 9/11 terror attack - has told Nine.com.au he believes he can answer a major forensic question that baffled investigators and could finally help solve what happened to missing girl Madeleine McCann, more than 11 years after she mysteriously vanished.

Speaking in tomorrow's fifth episode of Maddie, an American DNA expert reveals potentially case-changing insights into the DNA samples that were taken from the McCann's holiday apartment and rental car in 2007. Those samples were later judged to be inconclusive.

The chief scientist at a US-based, world renowned lab has reviewed the now out-dated testing methods used by the UK's Forensic Science Service (FSS) in 2007 to analyse the McCann samples. He has also examined a crucial final DNA report that was sent to the Portuguese police.

Portuguese police sent DNA samples to the FSS for testing after two specialist sniffer dogs trained to detect the scent of death and human blood alerted in the McCann's holiday apartment and a rental car hired three weeks after Maddie vanished. The FSS analysed the samples but struggled to untangle and decipher the potentially explosive evidence.

"[The FSS testing] failed in this case 10 years ago," the DNA scientist said.

"If a lab can produce informative data, even if it is complex and mixed, but they can't interpret it then you can have tremendous injustice - of guilty people not being convicted, or innocent people staying in prison. What is needed is an objective and accurate interpretation that can scientifically resolve the DNA."

The inconclusive DNA results from the FSS appeared to cast serious doubt over the earlier work of the cadaver dogs that had searched the potential crime scenes.



Kate and Gerry McCann 'less than convincing', former UK ambassador claims


The US forensic lab has forged a global reputation through solving previously indecipherable DNA samples. It has played a pivotal role in a number of high-profile US criminal trials involving wrongful convictions based on dodgy DNA evidence and controversial prosecutions.

In 2007, the now-closed British lab, the FSS, was forced to undertake a massive review of up to 2000 cases of violent crime, including rape and murder. There were concerns that the DNA tests relating to these criminal cases had failed to detect minute traces of DNA that could potentially have identified guilty parties.

The American DNA scientist will feature in Monday's episode five of Maddie, Nine.com.au's podcast investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. Maddie quickly reached number one in the UK, Australia and New Zealand iTunes charts.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
Madeleine’s DNA could be present as could an abductor’s, Murat’s or the Man In The Moon’s.  Sensationalist shite to sell more papers and podcasts. IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 24, 2019, 09:00:47 AM
I don't recall claims that DNA results were too complex to interpret being raised before the McCann case arose, or indeed since then, for that matter.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 24, 2019, 09:02:07 AM
https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/23/20/27/madeleine-mccann-dna-car-evidence-could-now-be-solved-maddie-podcast

EXCLUSIVE: Maddie's DNA could be present in crucial samples as world expert rips up 'failed' UK forensic tests

One of the world's leading DNA scientists – whose lab helped identify victims of the 9/11 terror attack - has told Nine.com.au he believes he can answer a major forensic question that baffled investigators and could finally help solve what happened to missing girl Madeleine McCann, more than 11 years after she mysteriously vanished.

Speaking in tomorrow's fifth episode of Maddie, an American DNA expert reveals potentially case-changing insights into the DNA samples that were taken from the McCann's holiday apartment and rental car in 2007. Those samples were later judged to be inconclusive.

The chief scientist at a US-based, world renowned lab has reviewed the now out-dated testing methods used by the UK's Forensic Science Service (FSS) in 2007 to analyse the McCann samples. He has also examined a crucial final DNA report that was sent to the Portuguese police.

Portuguese police sent DNA samples to the FSS for testing after two specialist sniffer dogs trained to detect the scent of death and human blood alerted in the McCann's holiday apartment and a rental car hired three weeks after Maddie vanished. The FSS analysed the samples but struggled to untangle and decipher the potentially explosive evidence.

"[The FSS testing] failed in this case 10 years ago," the DNA scientist said.

"If a lab can produce informative data, even if it is complex and mixed, but they can't interpret it then you can have tremendous injustice - of guilty people not being convicted, or innocent people staying in prison. What is needed is an objective and accurate interpretation that can scientifically resolve the DNA."

The inconclusive DNA results from the FSS appeared to cast serious doubt over the earlier work of the cadaver dogs that had searched the potential crime scenes.



Kate and Gerry McCann 'less than convincing', former UK ambassador claims


The US forensic lab has forged a global reputation through solving previously indecipherable DNA samples. It has played a pivotal role in a number of high-profile US criminal trials involving wrongful convictions based on dodgy DNA evidence and controversial prosecutions.

In 2007, the now-closed British lab, the FSS, was forced to undertake a massive review of up to 2000 cases of violent crime, including rape and murder. There were concerns that the DNA tests relating to these criminal cases had failed to detect minute traces of DNA that could potentially have identified guilty parties.

The American DNA scientist will feature in Monday's episode five of Maddie, Nine.com.au's podcast investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. Maddie quickly reached number one in the UK, Australia and New Zealand iTunes charts.

Where does Kate's, Gerry's and Madeleine's five day stay in Appartment 5a come into this?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 24, 2019, 09:02:30 AM
  Sensationalist shite to sell more papers and podcasts. IMO.

Since 3/05/2007 what hasn't been.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 24, 2019, 09:04:14 AM
I don't recall claims that DNA results were too complex to interpret being raised before the McCann case arose, or indeed since then, for that matter.

DNA has always been dodgy when it comes to solving Crimes, especially if there is a mixture.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:15:29 AM
It will be Mark Perlin promoting his very expensive  True Allele technique that will be no use in this case... Saunokoko has already shown he doesn't understand the evidence with his claim that Eddie had never been wrong in 200 cases... If he can't get his, basic facts right then he us misleading people with his podcasts..
If Eddie hadn't been wrong in 200 cases I would accept the alerts had value... But the claim simply is not true

If you read Grimes claim it's, easy to misunderstand but being pedantic I read it precisely
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 09:23:22 AM
Since 3/05/2007 what hasn't been.
Not all of it, but this one tells us nothing we didn’t already know, just dressed up as something new and significant, which it isn’t.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:31:48 AM
Not all of it, but this one tells us nothing we didn’t already know, just dressed up as something new and significant, which it isn’t.

He also perpetuates myths... How can anyone ignore a dog that has never been wrong in 200 cases... Thus is why some people don't understand  the value of the alerts... Which are central to the case against the McCanns
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2019, 09:34:59 AM
https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/23/20/27/madeleine-mccann-dna-car-evidence-could-now-be-solved-maddie-podcast

EXCLUSIVE: Maddie's DNA could be present in crucial samples as world expert rips up 'failed' UK forensic tests

One of the world's leading DNA scientists – whose lab helped identify victims of the 9/11 terror attack - has told Nine.com.au he believes he can answer a major forensic question that baffled investigators and could finally help solve what happened to missing girl Madeleine McCann, more than 11 years after she mysteriously vanished.

Speaking in tomorrow's fifth episode of Maddie, an American DNA expert reveals potentially case-changing insights into the DNA samples that were taken from the McCann's holiday apartment and rental car in 2007. Those samples were later judged to be inconclusive.

The chief scientist at a US-based, world renowned lab has reviewed the now out-dated testing methods used by the UK's Forensic Science Service (FSS) in 2007 to analyse the McCann samples. He has also examined a crucial final DNA report that was sent to the Portuguese police.

Portuguese police sent DNA samples to the FSS for testing after two specialist sniffer dogs trained to detect the scent of death and human blood alerted in the McCann's holiday apartment and a rental car hired three weeks after Maddie vanished. The FSS analysed the samples but struggled to untangle and decipher the potentially explosive evidence.

"[The FSS testing] failed in this case 10 years ago," the DNA scientist said.

"If a lab can produce informative data, even if it is complex and mixed, but they can't interpret it then you can have tremendous injustice - of guilty people not being convicted, or innocent people staying in prison. What is needed is an objective and accurate interpretation that can scientifically resolve the DNA."

The inconclusive DNA results from the FSS appeared to cast serious doubt over the earlier work of the cadaver dogs that had searched the potential crime scenes.



Kate and Gerry McCann 'less than convincing', former UK ambassador claims


The US forensic lab has forged a global reputation through solving previously indecipherable DNA samples. It has played a pivotal role in a number of high-profile US criminal trials involving wrongful convictions based on dodgy DNA evidence and controversial prosecutions.

In 2007, the now-closed British lab, the FSS, was forced to undertake a massive review of up to 2000 cases of violent crime, including rape and murder. There were concerns that the DNA tests relating to these criminal cases had failed to detect minute traces of DNA that could potentially have identified guilty parties.

The American DNA scientist will feature in Monday's episode five of Maddie, Nine.com.au's podcast investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. Maddie quickly reached number one in the UK, Australia and New Zealand iTunes charts.

Whatever is said I don't think any samples were kept so the resuults can never be checked.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2282.jpg
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:37:31 AM
Whatever is said I don't think any samples were kept so the resuults can never be checked.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2282.jpg
Someone needs to tell saunokoko.. The fact that both parents used the car makes any analysis on a mixed sample impossible
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 24, 2019, 09:47:08 AM
DNA has always been dodgy when it comes to solving Crimes, especially if there is a mixture.


It was a hire car,  god knows how many DNA's were mixed up in it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 09:52:36 AM
It will be Mark Perlin promoting his very expensive  True Allele technique that will be no use in this case... Saunokoko has already shown he doesn't understand the evidence with his claim that Eddie had never been wrong in 200 cases... If he can't get his, basic facts right then he us misleading people with his podcasts..
If Eddie hadn't been wrong in 200 cases I would accept the alerts had value... But the claim simply is not true

If you read Grimes claim it's, easy to misunderstand but being pedantic I read it precisely

What did he mean then ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
What did he mean then ?

he means exactly what he said.... suspect you incorrectly think he said eddie has not been wrong in 200 cases...he didnt........you need to be precise in your reading...pedantic if you liike
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 24, 2019, 10:24:29 AM
Whatever is said I don't think any samples were kept so the resuults can never be checked.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2282.jpg

Strange set of affairs,when you consider dna evidence led to the real killer of Lesley Molseed being found because of a pair of the girls underwear being kept with his dna on them,30 yrs later.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 10:25:20 AM
he means exactly what he said.... suspect you incorrectly think he said eddie has not been wrong in 200 cases...he didnt........you need to be precise in your reading...pedantic if you liike

Again what did he mean ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 10:31:10 AM
Again what did he mean ?

He means exactly  what he said... Are you saying after almost 12 years you dint know what he said..  What do you think he said... I'm on my phone so difficult  to copy and paste
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 10:40:37 AM
Strange set of affairs,when you consider dna evidence led to the real killer of Lesley Molseed being found because of a pair of the girls underwear being kept with his dna on them,30 yrs later.

The FSS follow home office guidelines... The PJ simply had to request the samples were kept
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 10:42:49 AM
He means exactly  what he said... Are you saying after almost 12 years you dint know what he said..  What do you think he said... I'm on my phone so difficult  to copy and paste

I want to know what you thought he meant ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 24, 2019, 10:44:17 AM
The FSS follow home office guidelines... The PJ simply had to request the samples were kept


The guidlines are what? If its to destroy were the PJ made aware? why keep some and destroy others.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2019, 10:59:21 AM
Someone needs to tell saunokoko.. The fact that both parents used the car makes any analysis on a mixed sample impossible

Inconclusive means the FSS couldn't give an opinion about the presence of Madeleine's DNA. It wasn't ruled in or out. DNA testing isn't an exact science it involves interpretation.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727733-500-fallible-dna-evidence-can-mean-prison-or-freedom/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 11:17:09 AM
Inconclusive means the FSS couldn't give an opinion about the presence of Madeleine's DNA. It wasn't ruled in or out. DNA testing isn't an exact science it involves interpretation.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727733-500-fallible-dna-evidence-can-mean-prison-or-freedom/

DNA can be very precise and interpretation is extremely limited...the facts speak for themselves....it depends on the quality of the sample to how precise the analysis can be...this sample as I understand was from 3 to 5 poeple ....the fact that these could include maddies parents makes any meaningful conclusions basically impossible..the article you are quoting refers to mixed and partial samples
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
I want to know what you thought he meant ?

In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the
dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.



I don't think anything... What he says is quite clear... What do you think he is saying
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 24, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the
dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.



I don't think anything... What he says is quite clear... What do you think he is saying

He's saying the dog never alerted to any other than which he was trained for in over 200 operational deployment's.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 24, 2019, 12:32:06 PM
Whatever is said I don't think any samples were kept so the resuults can never be checked.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2282.jpg

A Met Police team led by DCI Andy Redwood announced their wish to look again at forensic material collected in the early days of the Madeleine McCann investigation during a visit to the university town of Coimbra earlier this month.

They met with senior officials of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Institute president Francisco Brizida, said afterwards: “I have the certainty they went away very happy.”

“The tonic of the meeting was about the possibility of the tests on samples collected in 2007 being re-done.

“The British police wanted clarification on the examinations the institute had carried out during the early stages of the inquiry in the areas of genetics and biology.

“We talked about non-identified material that was collected in Madeleine’s apartment.

“I can’t say for sure new DNA tests that didn’t yield a conclusive result in 2007 could now yield an objective result.

“But technology nowadays allows us to go further than years ago in areas like genetic markers.

“Several possibilities are open. One could be that British police do the tests in Britain with British technology and another that the institute does them.

“But that’s an area in which the institute does not have the last word. There’s a situation of judicial cooperation and a new international letter of request would be necessary.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/hair-strands-during-original-madeleine-mccann-investigation-never-dna-matched-9825210.html


Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 12:47:33 PM
He's saying the dog never alerted to any other than which he was trained for in over 200 operational deployment's.
That's what you are saying... Once you feel it's, acceptable to change his words you change the meaning.. The next person changes them a little more... The true meaning is lost
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 12:50:26 PM
Inconclusive means the FSS couldn't give an opinion about the presence of Madeleine's DNA. It wasn't ruled in or out. DNA testing isn't an exact science it involves interpretation.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727733-500-fallible-dna-evidence-can-mean-prison-or-freedom/

It couldn't be ruled out or in... Not due to interpretation... But due to the results of the analysis... Are you seriously suggesting another scientist could intepret that result diferrently... You are wrong..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
A Met Police team led by DCI Andy Redwood announced their wish to look again at forensic material collected in the early days of the Madeleine McCann investigation during a visit to the university town of Coimbra earlier this month.

They met with senior officials of Portugal’s Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences in Coimbra, two hours drive north of Lisbon, where most of the material, also said to include 25 blood and saliva samples, is held.

Institute president Francisco Brizida, said afterwards: “I have the certainty they went away very happy.”

“The tonic of the meeting was about the possibility of the tests on samples collected in 2007 being re-done.

“The British police wanted clarification on the examinations the institute had carried out during the early stages of the inquiry in the areas of genetics and biology.

“We talked about non-identified material that was collected in Madeleine’s apartment.

“I can’t say for sure new DNA tests that didn’t yield a conclusive result in 2007 could now yield an objective result.

“But technology nowadays allows us to go further than years ago in areas like genetic markers.

“Several possibilities are open. One could be that British police do the tests in Britain with British technology and another that the institute does them.

“But that’s an area in which the institute does not have the last word. There’s a situation of judicial cooperation and a new international letter of request would be necessary.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/hair-strands-during-original-madeleine-mccann-investigation-never-dna-matched-9825210.html

So they were said to want to check the work of the Portuguese scientists but not that of the British ones. More insults imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 24, 2019, 02:21:38 PM
So they were said to want to check the work of the Portuguese scientists but not that of the British ones. More insults imo.

I suppose they had easier access to the relevant UK forensic records so didn't really need to mention it to anyone.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
So they were said to want to check the work of the Portuguese scientists but not that of the British ones. More insults imo.

So it's okfor amaral to say the FSS manipulated the results. .when that is not true and based on his misunderstanding
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 24, 2019, 02:36:36 PM
So they were said to want to check the work of the Portuguese scientists but not that of the British ones. More insults imo.
When Rebelo took over the investigation there was obvious personal contact and collaboration between Portuguese scientists and their colleagues at the FSS in Birmingham.

They spent three days discussing nothing but the forensic results.

The outcome of which relayed back to Portugal by their experts in the field must have convinced the public prosecutor to drop proceedings against the three arguidos.
That says it all to me and I think it makes Saunokonoko's podcast crusade really quite extraordinary.


Snip
The four-strong team from Portugal - thought to include a senior detective, two police forensic experts and Francisco Corte Real, the vice president of the National Pathology Institute - touched down at East Midlands airport at midday.

_____________________________________________________________________-

"There has been excellent dialogue between the British and the Portuguese authorities but they found it was time to have a face-to-face meeting.

_____________________________________________________________________

  ... public prosecutor Jose Magalhaes e Menezes has refused to sanction further moves against the couple.

It has been reported that he is waiting for the full forensic results before deciding whether to pursue a case against them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570807/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-police-fly-to-UK.html
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 03:47:08 PM
I'm looking forward to listening to a real explanation of the genetic results from an expert in that field. I wonder if they will agree with Netflix genetic experts Robin Swan & Jim Gamble.

It may just be me, but I get the feeling some people are suffering from squeaky bum time. 
Squeak squeak.    @)(++(*

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 03:51:38 PM
I'm looking forward to listening to a real explanation of the genetic results from an expert in that field. I wonder if they will agree with Netflix genetic experts Robin Swan & Jim Gamble.

It may just be me, but I get the feeling some people are suffering from squeaky bum time. 
Squeak squeak.    @)(++(*

as I understand it already...I dont see there being any revelations from True allele and Mark Perlin.....im fairly sure this is who saunokokos expert will be...the fact that the dna was a mix...the fact that both parents used the car....make any precise analysis impossible...it really isnt rocket sciennce....Robyn Swann explained it quite well
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 04:07:59 PM
as I understand it already...I dont see there being any revelations from True allele and Mark Perlin.....im fairly sure this is who saunokokos expert will be...the fact that the dna was a mix...the fact that both parents used the car....make any precise analysis impossible...it really isnt rocket sciennce....Robyn Swann explained it quite well
You can tell me all that and the podcast hasn't aired yet. I don't suppose you could go a little further and tell me what's going to win the 2.15 at Wincanton, that's tomorrow as well.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 04:09:29 PM
 *&^^&
You can tell me all that and the podcast hasn't aired yet. I don't suppose you could go a little further and tell me what's going to win the 2.15 at Wincanton, that's tomorrow as well.  @)(++(*

Won't you be shocked when I'm proved right
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 24, 2019, 04:16:30 PM
So they were said to want to check the work of the Portuguese scientists but not that of the British ones. More insults imo.

No I think the samples were returned to Portugal not kept in UK.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: John on March 24, 2019, 07:41:18 PM
Reference my previous advice re constructive comments guys.  I have no problem with introducing a bit of banter into the discussions but please don't make remarks personal as that could constitute a rule breach. Cheers!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 08:30:01 PM
I'm looking forward to listening to a real explanation of the genetic results from an expert in that field. I wonder if they will agree with Netflix genetic experts Robin Swan & Jim Gamble.

It may just be me, but I get the feeling some people are suffering from squeaky bum time. 
Squeak squeak.    @)(++(*

not sure if you are aware but talking of experts...sir Alec Jeffreys stated that he would testify if necessary on behalf of the McCanns...if you arent sure who he is try google...hes quite an expert
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 08:53:24 PM
*&^^&
Won't you be shocked when I'm proved right
If the expert, does like you say, tell us that the samples are inconclusive, why would I be shocked? Isn't that what the experts in the forensic report have already said? If you think I'll ever be shocked by the truth, whatever that may be, you've got me all wrong.
If the expert says that the samples are now in their opinion, conclusive, then yes, I will be shocked, won't you?
I don't have a crystal ball like some, I don't know what they are going to say. It depends entirely on what they do say that will determine if I'm shocked or not, don't you think?

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 08:59:12 PM
not sure if you are aware but talking of experts...sir Alec Jeffreys stated that he would testify if necessary on behalf of the McCanns...if you arent sure who he is try google...hes quite an expert

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6992372.stm

The article is from September 2007 when Sir Alec, despite his expertise, would not have known what evidence the PJ had against the parents.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 08:59:37 PM
not sure if you are aware but talking of experts...sir Alec Jeffreys stated that he would testify if necessary on behalf of the McCanns...if you arent sure who he is try google...hes quite an expert
Davel please listen carefully. If the McCanns are innocent, no one would like to see that proven more than me. I just don't see that I'm afraid imo, at least not with how things stand at the moment. And nor am I impressed with how they have handled their defense. Too much collateral damage imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:09:21 PM
Davel please listen carefully. If the McCanns are innocent, no one would like to see that proven more than me. I just don't see that I'm afraid imo, at least not with how things stand at the moment. And nor am I impressed with how they have handled their defense. Too much collateral damage imo.

Please listen carefully... For me the evidence overwhelmingly points to innocence... But if that changes it won't bother me in the slightest.. But I cannot realistically see it changing
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6992372.stm

The article is from September 2007 when Sir Alec, despite his expertise, would not have known what evidence the PJ had against the parents.

Read the article... It talks, about the police claiming a 100 %match in the hire car
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 09:19:21 PM
Please listen carefully... For me the evidence overwhelmingly points to innocence... But if that changes it won't bother me in the slightest.. But I cannot realistically see it changing
Aw... something else we agree on. I trust you also agree the investigation should continue indefinitely?
It's the least the culprits deserve imo.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 24, 2019, 09:31:33 PM
Aw... something else we agree on. I trust you also agree the investigation should continue indefinitely?
It's the least the culprits deserve imo.  8(0(*

Thr investigation  can only continue if there is something  to investigate
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 10:04:03 PM
Thr investigation  can only continue if there is something  to investigate
You better tell the McCanns that, they are planning to investigate when this investigation ends apparently. What will they be left to investigate if SY have done all the investigating for them one wonders? And God help whoever the suspects are in that scenario. They better make sure their cars are fully insured for third party, fire and theft.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 10:08:12 PM
You better tell the McCanns that, they are planning to investigate when this investigation ends apparently. What will they be left to investigate if SY have done all the investigating for them one wonders? And God help whoever the suspects are in that scenario. They better make sure their cars are fully insured for third party, fire and theft.
Why would people continue spending money on investigating a crime you believe they committed themselves, especially if the latest investigation fails to find any evidence against them?  Does that make any sense to you?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 10:30:33 PM
Why would people continue spending money on investigating a crime you believe they committed themselves, especially if the latest investigation fails to find any evidence against them?  Does that make any sense to you?
According to the post I was replying to, the investigation will only end when there is nothing to investigate. What's the sense in investigating something there is nothing to investigate. That's what the McCanns are proposing to do according to Davel. Would that make sense to you?
I'm on record as supporting an indefinite investigation. 8500 sightings, we have plenty to investigate before we hand it over to the doctors.
Because we can't prove who the culprits are, doesn't mean we do not have at our disposal means of making them suffer.  Are you opposed to that approach? 8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 10:34:55 PM
According to the post I was replying to, the investigation will only end when there is nothing to investigate. What's the sense in investigating something there is nothing to investigate. That's what the McCanns are proposing to do according to Davel. Would that make sense to you?
I'm on record as supporting an indefinite investigation. 8500 sightings, we have plenty to investigate before we hand it over to the doctors.
Because we can't prove who the culprits are, doesn't mean we do not have at our disposal means of making them suffer.  Are you opposed to that approach? 8(0(*
Re: your last para - I have no idea what you are talking about, soz la, Cheeky.  Re: the parents carrying on the search after there is nothing left to investigate only makes sense if you consider the parents continue to have hope of finding their child and never giving up.  Otherwise it does make no sense as you rightly point out. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 24, 2019, 10:40:07 PM
Re: your last para - I have no idea what you are talking about, soz la, Cheeky.  Re: the parents carrying on the search after there is nothing left to investigate only makes sense if you consider the parents continue to have hope of finding their child and never giving up.  Otherwise it does make no sense as you rightly point out.

I believe Kate has said they will never stop looking for Madeleine, (this was mentioned somewhere in the early part of the Netflix doc, but I can't be arsed to look for it).
Never stopping looking makes no sense, since if they found her, then they wouldn't have to look anymore.
They'll never stop looking, because they know she can't be found. In this context that statement makes sense.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2019, 10:40:47 PM
Re: your last para - I have no idea what you are talking about, soz la, Cheeky.  Re: the parents carrying on the search after there is nothing left to investigate only makes sense if you consider the parents continue to have hope of finding their child and never giving up.  Otherwise it does make no sense as you rightly point out.

Nice bit of Scouse, Vertigo la.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 10:59:49 PM
Re: your last para - I have no idea what you are talking about, soz la, Cheeky.  Re: the parents carrying on the search after there is nothing left to investigate only makes sense if you consider the parents continue to have hope of finding their child and never giving up.  Otherwise it does make no sense as you rightly point out.
I can't do anything about your lack of understanding.
On my other paragraphs, it's welcome to see rather than call me a troll, we can agree on something.
Even if you have no idea what I'm talking about in my last para, we have made progress, you spoke to me 8(0(*.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 24, 2019, 11:05:56 PM
Read the article... It talks, about the police claiming a 100 %match in the hire car

And ? Sir Alec Jeffrey only had that information from newspaper reports.

To say he’d testify for the parent’s in court, the article doesn’t quote him directly as saying that, when his only knowledge of the case against them is newspaper reports would make anyone question his professionalism.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 11:07:08 PM
I can't do anything about your lack of understanding.
On my other paragraphs, it's welcome to see rather than call me a troll, we can agree on something.
Even if you have no idea what I'm talking about in my last para, we have made progress, you spoke to me 8(0(*.
I’m glad you’re pleased.  Don’t troll me and we’re bound to get along famously  8**8:/:
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 11:07:58 PM
I believe Kate has said they will never stop looking for Madeleine, (this was mentioned somewhere in the early part of the Netflix doc, but I can't be arsed to look for it).
Never stopping looking makes no sense, since if they found her, then they wouldn't have to look anymore.
They'll never stop looking, because they know she can't be found. In this context that statement makes sense.
Facetious faeces. IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 24, 2019, 11:11:05 PM
Facetious faeces. IMO.

You know I'm right.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 11:12:13 PM
You know I'm right.
I know you know I’m right.Your turn.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 24, 2019, 11:18:39 PM
I’m glad you’re pleased.  Don’t troll me and we’re bound to get along famously  8**8:/:
I'm only pleased if we continue the progress. Davel, Eleanor, John, G Unit, Breitta and all the others haven't called me a troll. It's only you. I'm happy to leave it there and get along famously with you.
Back to you  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 24, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
I'm only pleased if we continue the progress. Davel, Eleanor, John, G Unit, Breitta and all the others haven't called me a troll. It's only you. I'm happy to leave it there and get along famously with you.
Back to you  8(0(*
Cool beans.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: John on March 25, 2019, 12:32:24 AM
I believe Kate has said they will never stop looking for Madeleine, (this was mentioned somewhere in the early part of the Netflix doc, but I can't be arsed to look for it).
Never stopping looking makes no sense, since if they found her, then they wouldn't have to look anymore.
They'll never stop looking, because they know she can't be found. In this context that statement makes sense.

Talk is cheap.  Her idea of what constitutes looking is a bit odd for sure.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2019, 09:03:27 AM
https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/the-dna?fbclid=IwAR2bIkvzBgJvYFYdVY1waT--1yAVK8OPV4nNEVkciKcwVYir8Q6HWf3AW8Y   this is the 5th podcast in the series.

Here is a better link to the full playlist as it stands.  https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/playlists/podcast
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on March 25, 2019, 09:23:40 AM
I believe Kate has said they will never stop looking for Madeleine, (this was mentioned somewhere in the early part of the Netflix doc, but I can't be arsed to look for it).
Never stopping looking makes no sense, since if they found her, then they wouldn't have to look anymore.
They'll never stop looking, because they know she can't be found. In this context that statement makes sense.

Obviously,   never stop looking until Madeleine is found,   can't believe you had to be told that   IMO
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 10:07:40 AM
*&^^&
Won't you be shocked when I'm proved right
Therefore, we CAN answer the question: is the match from the hire car genuine or is it a chance match according to Dr Mark Perlin. According to him you have been proved wrong. I'm not shocked at all.
If Dr Perlin's testimony proves anything imo, it proves when it comes to understanding and explaining genetic science to a wider global audience, Robin Swan and Jim Gamble are not the people to do it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 10:15:03 AM
Therefore, we CAN answer the question: is the match from the hire care genuine or is it a chance match according to Dr Mark Perlin. According to him you have been proved wrong. I'm not shocked at all.
If Dr Perlin's testimony proves anything imo, it proves when it comes to understanding and explaining genetic science to a wider global audience, Robin Swan and Jim Gamble are not the people to do it.

No we can't... He can give a probability..we don't know what that probability is...... He needs to be asked a lot more questions
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2019, 11:15:44 AM
A very interesting podcast about DNA. It seems that there's a possibility that questions which the FSS were unable to answer can now be answered, due to advances in the field. There are only two laboratory's in the world with this technology; one in the US and one in Australia. The information they would need was taken out of archive in 2012. If it has been examined it would be by the one in Australia, as it wasn't the US one. Assuming that Op Grange have the data, an offer has been made to them to analyse it free of charge by the US lab. Op Grange have not responded.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2019, 11:31:45 AM
No we can't... He can give a probability..we don't know what that probability is...... He needs to be asked a lot more questions

Accotding to him his method allowed him to separate a mixed sample containing DNA from five people. He was also able to separate the DNA of three brothers in that sample. His evidence obtained the release of two men who had been convicted of the crime because he demonstrated that neither of them contributed to the sample.

If he was allowed to analyse the sample from the boot of the McCann's car he might be able to eliminate Madeleine from it. In my opinion that's worth a try. If the McCanns are innocent surely they would want that to be done?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 12:08:47 PM
Accotding to him his method allowed him to separate a mixed sample containing DNA from five people. He was also able to separate the DNA of three brothers in that sample. His evidence obtained the release of two men who had been convicted of the crime because he demonstrated that neither of them contributed to the sample.

If he was allowed to analyse the sample from the boot of the McCann's car he might be able to eliminate Madeleine from it. In my opinion that's worth a try. If the McCanns are innocent surely they would want that to be done?

Of course it's worth a try... I've suggested via Twitter to Mark S that he ssks Mark Perlin himself to contact either the Portuguese or Grange... If the off er is genuine
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
Accotding to him his method allowed him to separate a mixed sample containing DNA from five people. He was also able to separate the DNA of three brothers in that sample. His evidence obtained the release of two men who had been convicted of the crime because he demonstrated that neither of them contributed to the sample.

If he was allowed to analyse the sample from the boot of the McCann's car he might be able to eliminate Madeleine from it. In my opinion that's worth a try. If the McCanns are innocent surely they would want that to be done?

Did he seperate the three brothers or exclude the three brothers... Thats a massive difference... Do you have s link


I've just checked a link.... He did not seperate the DNA of the three brothers but concluded that three of the contributers were brothers
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
Did he seperate the three brothers or exclude the three brothers... Thats a massive difference... Do you have s link

He was able to separate family members. That would be useful in terms of the car boot sample as theoretically he coould answer a question iften raised i.e. did the sample contain the DNA of Madeleine's fanily members?

The information is from the latest podcast; DNA.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 01:50:27 PM
If you ask me, there are those who would rather Mr Lowe's report remained opinion rather than be determined fact imo. Not that they'll admit it.
Dr Perlin; "I'd explain to SY how trueallele has been used successfully in the UK and elsewhere around the world to solve problems just like this one and if they want to know the answer, it won't cost them anything, just send us the data and we'll give them the answer.

Mark Perlin has clearly read Mr Lowes report, he's a genetic scientist with a proven reputation. He's in a better position to know what he can answer and what he can't before any of the other genetic experts on here imo. Let's hope the data has been retained and he is given the opportunity to give us an answer.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 02:00:18 PM
If you ask me, there are those who would rather Mr Lowe's report remained opinion rather than be determined fact imo. Not that they'll admit it.
Dr Perlin; "I'd explain to SY how trueallele has been used successfully in the UK and elsewhere around the world to solve problems just like this one and if they want to know the answer, it won't cost them anything, just send us the data and we'll give them the answer.

Mark Perlin has clearly read Mr Lowes report, he's a genetic scientist with a proven reputation. He's in a better position to know what he can answer and what he can't before any of the other genetic experts on here imo. Let's hope the data has been retained and he is given the opportunity to give us an answer.

You are assuming the answer is yes or no.......

I suggest Perlin contacts Grange himself and offers his, services...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 02:06:39 PM
You are assuming the answer is yes or no.......
I'm assuming nothing, it can only be yes or no, he already knows we have a ,"we CANNOT answer the question. You forgot about that, didn't you.


Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 02:09:28 PM
I'm assuming nothing, it can only be yes or no, we already have a ,"we CANNOT answer the question. You forgot about that, didn't you.

You are assuming the answer is yes or no... Then we have the next question... What if a couple of cells of maddies DNA were found... Would it be if any significance... I don't see thst it would
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2019, 02:10:32 PM
If you ask me, there are those who would rather Mr Lowe's report remained opinion rather than be determined fact imo. Not that they'll admit it.
Dr Perlin; "I'd explain to SY how trueallele has been used successfully in the UK and elsewhere around the world to solve problems just like this one and if they want to know the answer, it won't cost them anything, just send us the data and we'll give them the answer.

Mark Perlin has clearly read Mr Lowes report, he's a genetic scientist with a proven reputation. He's in a better position to know what he can answer and what he can't before any of the other genetic experts on here imo. Let's hope the data has been retained and he is given the opportunity to give us an answer.

Not sure what a definitive answer would prove, but it could certainly raise some interesting questions and answers
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 02:19:53 PM
I think the whole idea, that Maddies corpse was in the hire, car is totally absurd
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 02:36:08 PM
Not sure what a definitive answer would prove, but it could certainly raise some interesting questions and answers
It would prove if a dog trained to detected human blood found the missing child's DNA in the boot of the parent's hire car or not. It would also be useful in the parent's defence one would imagine if it was proved to be the later. It's an answer it would seem to me, is in the parents interest finally gets answered.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 02:47:19 PM
It would prove if a dog trained to detected human blood found the missing child's DNA in the boot of the parent's hire car or not. It would also be useful in the parent's defence one would imagine if it was proved to be the later. It's an answer it would seem to me, is in the parents interest finally gets answered.

Gerrys blood was found in the car....the parents, already know the answer
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
Gerrys blood was found in the car....
What's that got to do with the DNA that matched Madeleine that was retrieved from the boot?
It didn't match Gerry the inconclusive DNA in the boot, it matched the missing child's.
The parents might know the answer but I don't know when I can believe the parents, I like proof.
Those jemmied shutters left a rather nasty taste in my mouth. I don't swallow anything they tell me without proof.
Your point is?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
What's that got to do with the DNA that matched Madeleine that was retrieved from the boot?
It didn't match Gerry the inconclusive DNA in the boot, it matched the missing child's.
The parents might know the answer but I don't know when I can believe the parents, I like proof.
Those jemmied shutters left a rather nasty taste in my mouth. I don't swallow anything they tell me without proof.
Your point is?

It wasn't a match to Madeleine and we dint know if Gerry contributed to it... I don't swallow, anything with out evidence..
Neither Gerry nor Kate used the words Gemmied... There is certainly  no proof they did... But you've swallowed it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2019, 03:17:25 PM
Are we speaking about the boot of the car?  Eddie didn't alert there. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 03:17:57 PM
It wasn't a match to Madeleine and we dint know if Gerry contributed to it... I don't swallow, anything with out evidence..
Neither Gerry nor Kate used the words Gemmied... There is certainly  no proof they did... But you've swallowed it
The report says it was an inconclusive match to Madeleine. What evidence did you swallow to reach the conclusion that it wasn't? Bit of a contradiction there sunshine. You don't swallow anything without, ahem, evidence.
I'll bear that in mind the next time my curtains go whoooosh.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 03:19:26 PM
Are we speaking about the boot of the car?  Eddie didn't alert there.
Keela is the blood dog I believe. It's the blood sample today's podcast was about. Nothing to do with Eddie.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 03:21:46 PM
The report says it was an inconclusive match to Madeleine. What evidence did you swallow to reach the conclusion that it wasn't? Bit of a contradiction there sunshine. You don't swallow anything without, ahem, evidence.
I'll bear that in mind the next time my curtains go whoooosh.

If it's inconclusive  it's not a match.. Could you cite the report stating it's an inconclusive match..it's a contradiction
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 03:29:01 PM
If it's inconclusive  it's not a match.. Could you cite the report stating it's an inconclusive match..it's a contradiction
Sorry you're quite correct, it was me that used the term inconclusive for the DNA match.. but here's your's cite to swallow.  "What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether THE MATCH is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears TO MATCH the result by chance.

It's not a match, then why did they scientists say that it was? I'm getting the sense your suffering from indigestion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 03:31:50 PM
Sorry you're quite correct, it was me that used the term inconclusive for the DNA match.. but here's your's cite to swallow.  "What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether THE MATCH is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears TO MATCH the result by chance.

It's not a match, then why did they scientists say that it was? I'm getting the sense your suffering from indigestion.

Something that appears to match by chance is not a match
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 04:03:46 PM
Something that appears to match by chance is not a match
But if you don't swallow anything without evidence, I'm at a loss to understand how do you know the match wasn't a genuine match? Well? You don't swallow anything without evidence? It seems rather mean for you not to be willing to share it with us. Go on, just tell us how you know it's not a genuine match. Please? Pretty please?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
But if you don't swallow anything without evidence, I'm at a loss to understand how do you know the match wasn't a genuine match? Well? You don't swallow anything without evidence? It seems rather mean for you not to be willing to share it with us. Go on, just tell us how you know it's not a genuine match. Please? Pretty please?

I don't know it's not a genuine match...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 04:24:23 PM
I don't know it's not a genuine match...
Fair enough mate, me either.
Monday night is yoga night, I'd suggest everyone gives it a go.  &^&*%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2019, 05:45:36 PM
But if you don't swallow anything without evidence, I'm at a loss to understand how do you know the match wasn't a genuine match? Well? You don't swallow anything without evidence? It seems rather mean for you not to be willing to share it with us. Go on, just tell us how you know it's not a genuine match. Please? Pretty please?
Inconclusive means you can't determine if it was a match or not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 25, 2019, 06:47:24 PM
An article about Trueallele, a company whose methods are not completely without controversy https://www.wired.com/story/trueallele-software-transforming-how-courts-treat-dna-evidence/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2019, 06:50:09 PM
Mark Saunokonoko makes several errors in the podcast Eddie and Keela, but it would be an extreme amount of work to isolate the comments and refute them.  OK he might be 90% correct in what he has presented which is pretty good score over all.
He presents a subtle opinion generally supportive of the PJ.  I myself don't agree with that as I have already expressed despair at Amaral's attempt to interview all the OC MW staff even when their likelihood of them being involved was zero i.e. the Millennium staff.  But there were no interviews of the staff working in businesses where the McCanns actually went e.g. the local supermarket.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2019, 07:15:57 PM
Mark Saunokonoko makes several errors in the podcast Eddie and Keela, but it would be an extreme amount of work to isolate the comments and refute them.  OK he might be 90% correct in what he has presented which is pretty good score over all.
He presents a subtle opinion generally supportive of the PJ.  I myself don't agree with that as I have already expressed despair at Amaral's attempt to interview all the OC MW staff even when their likelihood of them being involved was zero i.e. the Millennium staff.  But there were no interviews of the staff working in businesses where the McCanns actually went e.g. the local supermarket.

He must be one of the best journalists. Did you catch the bit where Martin Brunt said the McCanns had been on holiday in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared lol?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 25, 2019, 07:24:12 PM
He must be one of the best journalists. Did you catch the bit where Martin Brunt said the McCanns had been on holiday in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared lol?

Danny Collins made the same mistake in his book.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 07:31:57 PM
Inconclusive means you can't determine if it was a match or not.
Thanks for the definition of inconclusive but you're addressing your reply to the wrong person.
I was replying to Davel's; "It wasn't a match to Madeleine and we dint know if Gerry contributed to it"
It's fine, nothing to worry about, we eventually managed to get him to admit he was doesn't know if it's a genuine match or not. To make a claim that the sample 'wasn't a match to Madeleine' sounds pretty conclusive to me, don't you think?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2019, 07:47:01 PM
He must be one of the best journalists. Did you catch the bit where Martin Brunt said the McCanns had been on holiday in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared lol?
There are 6 podcasts available now and you ask me to note one particular portion.  To be honest I did not notice that actual statement.  To work out where to locate any "error" would be a mission.
It would come back to opinion.  We see the McCann and Payne families travelling to Portugal,  So IMO they were there  "in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared".  It might have just been an issue of recall or a slip of the tongue.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 07:47:38 PM
Thanks for the definition of inconclusive but you're addressing your reply to the wrong person.
I was replying to Davel's; "It wasn't a match to Madeleine and we dint know if Gerry contributed to it"
It's fine, nothing to worry about, we eventually managed to get him to admit he was doesn't know if it's a genuine match or not. To make a claim that the sample 'wasn't a match to Madeleine' sounds pretty conclusive to me, don't you think?
A match to Madeleine wasn't found... Whether there is one is another question... Whether it has any importance is another question... Based on the evidence I think it has no importance.
At the moment... There is no match to Madeleine
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 07:51:17 PM
He must be one of the best journalists. Did you catch the bit where Martin Brunt said the McCanns had been on holiday in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared lol?

He's made several gross errors... Saying the dogs have never been wrong in 200 cases is one... Interviewing Levy and taking what he says as the truth is another..

He's a poor journalist IMO because he is not presenting a balanced view
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 08:00:40 PM
There are 6 podcasts available now and you ask me to note one particular portion.  To be honest I did not notice that actual statement.  To work out where to locate any "error" would be a mission.
It would come back to opinion.  We see the McCann and Payne families travelling to Portugal,  So IMO they were there  "in Luz for almost two weeks when Madeleine disappeared".  It might have just been an issue of recall or a slip of the tongue.

As you have just edited one of my posts I should point out your error... There are 5 podcasts available
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 25, 2019, 08:19:03 PM
As you have just edited one of my posts I should point out your error... There are 5 podcasts available
Thanks but there are 6 listed on the playlist https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/the-dna?in_playlist=maddie!podcast

There are more planned so the numbers will change.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
Thanks but there are 6 listed on the playlist https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/the-dna?in_playlist=maddie!podcast

There are more planned so the numbers will change.

There are only 5 available.... Not six.. The latest one is episode 5
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
He's made several gross errors... Saying the dogs have never been wrong in 200 cases is one... Interviewing Levy and taking what he says as the truth is another..

He's a poor journalist IMO because he is not presenting a balanced view

Unlike most of them he isn't peddling untruths.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 25, 2019, 09:14:12 PM
Unlike most of them he isn't peddling untruths.

Yes he is..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 25, 2019, 09:27:24 PM
Unlike most of them he isn't peddling untruths.

Untruths are fine it seems,  as long as it’s dishonesty in favour of the parents.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 25, 2019, 09:29:34 PM
Colin Sutton in episode 4: "I'm not so sure the Portuguese investigation is as bad as it was painted... and I don't think it's the shoddy.. incomplete investigation that erm... that some people paint it as. I'm not sure what else they could have done. They took statements very quickly, they looked into it, they investigated it, they interviewed, they did forensic work as best they could. Sometimes the evidence JUST ISN'T THERE. Sometimes you just can't prove what you're trying to prove."
And if the evidence just wasn't there, whose fault was that?
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum?  Not imo.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 25, 2019, 09:32:44 PM
Unlike most of them he isn't peddling untruths.
What is he peddling and why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:02:28 AM
Colin Duffy was convicted on Mark perlins evidence then cleared on appeal..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15759541

so hes not as infallible as some would like to think
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 08:07:27 AM
Colin Duffy was convicted on Mark perlins evidence then cleared on appeal..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15759541

so hes not as infallible as some would like to think

Trillions now, is it?  Goodness me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 26, 2019, 08:20:23 AM
Colin Duffy was convicted on Mark perlins evidence then cleared on appeal..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15759541

so hes not as infallible as some would like to think

I find it fascinating that you are seeking to discredit a man who could show that Madeleine's DNA wasn't present in that car.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:22:51 AM
I find it fascinating that you are seeking to discredit a man who could show that Madeleine's DNA wasn't present in that car.

I find it very telling that providing a link that puts things into perspective is seen by you as trying to discredit him

Afaiac it's not particularly  important if madeleines DNA was found in the car
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 08:23:32 AM
I find it fascinating that you are seeking to discredit a man who could show that Madeleine's DNA wasn't present in that car.
What he is selling has not been peer reviewed, as you accept nothing, believe no one and check everything does that not concern you?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 26, 2019, 09:18:43 AM
I find it interesting the effort being put into discrediting Perlin’s expertise while reviews where being asked for in 2,000 criminal cases due to blunders by the FSS, the very service used to investigate the forensic material in this case.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1543448/2000-crime-files-reopened-after-DNA-blunders.htmlS

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 09:22:37 AM
I find it interesting the effort being put into discrediting Perlin’s expertise while reviews where being asked for in 2,000 criminal cases due to blunders by the FSS, the very service used to investigate the forensic material in this case.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1543448/2000-crime-files-reopened-after-DNA-blunders.htmlS

I find Trillions hard to accept.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 26, 2019, 09:39:57 AM
I find it very telling that providing a link that puts things into perspective is seen by you as trying to discredit him

Afaiac it's not particularly  important if madeleines DNA was found in the car

The FSS weren't exactly marvelous either. Their work on other cases was being questioned and the police started using other providers.

According to Keela blood was present in the car. Madeleine's DNA falling off her shoes or clothes? Fine. Her blood is a different matter.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 09:41:30 AM
The FSS weren't exactly marvelous either. Their work on other cases was being questioned and the police started using other providers.

According to Keela blood was present in the car. Madeleine's DNA falling off her shoes or clothes? Fine. Her blood is a different matter.

Dead bodies don't bleed.  Especially not after three weeks.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
The FSS weren't exactly marvelous either. Their work on other cases was being questioned and the police started using other providers.

According to Keela blood was present in the car. Madeleine's DNA falling off her shoes or clothes? Fine. Her blood is a different matter.

First... It seems it's OK to try and discredit the FSS as mark s and you are doing. The FSS had to review over a thousand cases after the Omagh bomb trial where it was ruled thst a small quantity of DNA could be present through transference... So why in 2011 did Perlin not understand  this... And that's why the conviction was overturned..

According to Griime the alerts have no evidential value without corroborating evidence... There was no blood found... We know Gerrys blood was in the car... How do you make the giant leap to show maddies blood was in the car... Total speculation
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 09:46:50 AM
Dead bodies don't bleed.  Especially not after three weeks.

Absolutely... Blood clots quite quickly...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 09:49:09 AM
So when Perlin testified was he not aware of transference... Doesn't make him much of an expert
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 09:51:44 AM
I find Trillions hard to accept.

So did Perlin... He revised his figures... So he, admits the first ones were wrong
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 26, 2019, 09:53:04 AM
Dead bodies don't bleed.  Especially not after three weeks.

I find it very difficult to understand how up to five people's blood became intermingled. Was the sample part blood part  other substances?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 09:53:56 AM
Dead bodies don't bleed.  Especially not after three weeks.
I didn't know that, interesting.. but where has all the blood in their bodies gone?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 10:08:38 AM
I find it very difficult to understand how up to five people's blood became intermingled. Was the sample part blood part  other substances?

It wouldnt have to be 5 people's blood... Could be just gerrys... Mixes, with 4 others dna
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 10:09:08 AM
I didn't know that, interesting.. but where has all the blood in their bodies gone?

It clots... Turns solid
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 11:11:13 AM
I find it very difficult to understand how up to five people's blood became intermingled. Was the sample part blood part  other substances?
One person's blood but DNA from up to 5 different people from the area tested.  DNA is collected from an area, but Keela alerts to an invisible spot within that area.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 01:41:11 PM
So when Perlin testified was he not aware of transference... Doesn't make him much of an expert
I expect his expertise to given much more balanced consideration in certain quarters if he is ever given the chance to test the samples and they prove not to be Madeleine's... Excluding yourself of course. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 02:44:13 PM
I expect his expertise to given much more balanced consideration in certain quarters if he is ever given the chance to test the samples and they prove not to be Madeleine's... Excluding yourself of course.
Like the FSS... Saunokoko does his best to discredit them and that's lapped up in certain quarters...as for Perlin.. He's highly qualified... Extremely well educated and intelligent and hence would see my criticism of him as tongue in cheek.. Us intelligent scientists like a bit of friendly banter...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 03:44:19 PM
Like the FSS... Saunokoko does his best to discredit them and that's lapped up in certain quarters...as for Perlin.. He's highly qualified... Extremely well educated and intelligent and hence would see my criticism of him as tongue in cheek.. Us intelligent scientists like a bit of friendly banter...

Good one.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2019, 04:00:38 PM
I expect his expertise to given much more balanced consideration in certain quarters if he is ever given the chance to test the samples and they prove not to be Madeleine's... Excluding yourself of course.

Danie Krugel would not permit review of his technique either ... I believe it cost him credibility.  8**8:/:
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 04:03:34 PM
Good one.
It's not a good one imo, what's good about a comment that's wrong? If you listen to the podcast, nowhere in the podcast does anyone attempt to discredit the FSS. They refer in the podcast to the outdated methods they were using in 2007 but that in no way imo is an attempt to discredit anyone, it's a statement of fact. 12 years is a very long time in modern science, technology evolves. 
If I'm wrong I'll enjoy reading the cite you provide that demonstrates there was any attempt to discredit anyone from the FSS?
The man is claiming he has a modern method, accepted in courts of law that could prove if the DNA in the car came from the child or not. Does the thought of not appeal to you? Reading through this thread, I'm beginning to wonder.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
I find it very difficult to understand how up to five people's blood became intermingled. Was the sample part blood part  other substances?

I think that post is more than a tad disingenuous of you for which I will apologise when you provide a cite showing ... what blood?  what five people?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 04:09:04 PM
Danie Krugel would not permit review of his technique either ... I believe it cost him credibility.  8**8:/:
I couldn't agree more but this guy's scientific evidence has been accepted by the courts. If it's wrong it'll cost him his credibility as well. The parent's have a defence team in place that leaves no one in any doubt that their evidence will be challenged. Bring it on I say.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2019, 04:10:42 PM
One person's blood but DNA from up to 5 different people from the area tested.  DNA is collected from an area, but Keela alerts to an invisible spot within that area.

I find it extraordinary that our resident 'expert' on the files is unaware of that.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 04:18:08 PM
It's not a good one imo, what's good about a comment that's wrong? If you listen to the podcast, nowhere in the podcast does anyone attempt to discredit the FSS. They refer in the podcast to the outdated methods they were using in 2007 but that in no way imo is an attempt to discredit anyone, it's a statement of fact. 12 years is a very long time in modern science, technology evolves. 
If I'm wrong I'll enjoy reading the cite you provide that demonstrates there was any attempt to discredit anyone from the FSS?
The man is claiming he has a modern method, accepted in courts of law that could prove if the DNA in the car came from the child or not. Does the thought of not appeal to you? Reading through this thread, I'm beginning to wonder.

I was referring to Davel's comment on Banter.

However, I do find Trillions had to believe.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2019, 04:22:04 PM
Therefore, we CAN answer the question: is the match from the hire car genuine or is it a chance match according to Dr Mark Perlin. According to him you have been proved wrong. I'm not shocked at all.
If Dr Perlin's testimony proves anything imo, it proves when it comes to understanding and explaining genetic science to a wider global audience, Robin Swan and Jim Gamble are not the people to do it.
You obviously missed the link provided by VS which explains in great detail exactly what is wrong with the suppositions in your post ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg517357#msg517357

Long ... but well worth a read and further study ...
https://www.wired.com/story/trueallele-software-transforming-how-courts-treat-dna-evidence/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 26, 2019, 04:28:10 PM
Like the FSS... Saunokoko does his best to discredit them and that's lapped up in certain quarters...as for Perlin.. He's highly qualified... Extremely well educated and intelligent and hence would see my criticism of him as tongue in cheek.. Us intelligent scientists like a bit of friendly banter...

No need to discredit the FSS, they managed that all by themselves and that is why they were disbanded.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 04:33:31 PM
I was referring to Davel's comment on Banter.

However, I do find Trillions had to believe.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I agree it's a large number but dna technology is all about analysing very large numbers. If I were innocent and knew my child had never been in the boot of the car, I'd be willing to give it a go. Absolutely.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I agree it's a large number but dna technology is all about analysing very large numbers. If I were innocent and knew my child had never been in the boot of the car, I'd be willing to give it a go. Absolutely.

The Population of The World today is 7.5 Billion.  Need I say more?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 04:52:09 PM
It's not a good one imo, what's good about a comment that's wrong? If you listen to the podcast, nowhere in the podcast does anyone attempt to discredit the FSS. They refer in the podcast to the outdated methods they were using in 2007 but that in no way imo is an attempt to discredit anyone, it's a statement of fact. 12 years is a very long time in modern science, technology evolves. 
If I'm wrong I'll enjoy reading the cite you provide that demonstrates there was any attempt to discredit anyone from the FSS?
The man is claiming he has a modern method, accepted in courts of law that could prove if the DNA in the car came from the child or not. Does the thought of not appeal to you? Reading through this thread, I'm beginning to wonder.

I think you should listen again.....there is an attempt o discredit the FSS...and its gone on here too...I would love to see the results of his tests but...first..it may already have been done with the NZ lab and secondly...neither Grange nor the PJ think its necessary....i have suggested to Mark S that he gets Perlin himself to approach Grange...so im certainly up for it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 04:58:03 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I agree it's a large number but dna technology is all about analysing very large numbers. If I were innocent and knew my child had never been in the boot of the car, I'd be willing to give it a go. Absolutely.

its not up to the mccanns...but of course whatever result was found would NOT answer the question...was maddies corpse transported in the car... The only people who know if maddies body was ever in the boot is the MCcanns....they dont need any test to tell them the answer
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 05:01:54 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I agree it's a large number but dna technology is all about analysing very large numbers. If I were innocent and knew my child had never been in the boot of the car, I'd be willing to give it a go. Absolutely.

simple question...if the test was negative...what would it prove
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 26, 2019, 05:23:14 PM
its not up to the mccanns...but of course whatever result was found would NOT answer the question...was maddies corpse transported in the car
It would answer it for me.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 05:43:28 PM
It would answer it for me.  8(0(*
It would not prove maddies body was never in the car... I thought you demanded proof
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 06:21:50 PM
The Population of The World today is 7.5 Billion.  Need I say more?
Yes but even if the worlds population went into the trillions your DNA will still be unique to you. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 06:24:09 PM
its not up to the mccanns...but of course whatever result was found would NOT answer the question...was maddies corpse transported in the car... The only people who know if maddies body was ever in the boot is the MCcanns....they dont need any test to tell them the answer
According to Gerry other people used that car.  So you can't say Gerry was the only person who could have put a cadaver in the hire car.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2019, 06:30:51 PM
According to Gerry other people used that car.  So you can't say Gerry was the only person who could have put a cadaver in the hire car.
It was a hire car ... do you think one of the other people who had hired it prior to the McCanns might have carried a body in the boot?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 06:38:36 PM
Yes but even if the worlds population went into the trillions your DNA will still be unique to you.

But it doesn't.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 06:50:33 PM
It was a hire car ... do you think one of the other people who had hired it prior to the McCanns might have carried a body in the boot?
What did Gerry actually say?  I have a feeling he said "up to 30 people (of his acquaintances) had possibly used the hire car" while he had it under contract. (They had the car for a long time late May right through to the 6th August, so about two and a half months for those 30 people to use the car.)

"do you think one of the other people who had hired it prior to the McCanns might have carried a body in the boot?"  This is another possibility.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 06:58:03 PM
Yes but even if the worlds population went into the trillions your DNA will still be unique to you.

So why don't they just say that there is only one person in The World with this DNA, and this is that person?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Are we all agreed that there was probably a body in the boot then?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 07:01:05 PM
Are we all agreed that there was probably a body in the boot then?

Where did you get that idea?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 07:02:03 PM
So why don't they just say that there is only one person in The World with this DNA, and this is that person?
There is always the possibility of the identical twin running around that no one told you about.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 26, 2019, 07:04:06 PM
It was a hire car ... do you think one of the other people who had hired it prior to the McCanns might have carried a body in the boot?

Only if the parents were the most unlucky people ever to live.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 07:04:32 PM
There is always the possibility of the identical twin running around that no one told you about.

Nice try, Rob, but that doesn't quite cut it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 07:09:18 PM
Nice try, Rob, but that doesn't quite cut it.
I still think I'm right though.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 07:12:00 PM
Where did you get that idea?
I didn't, it's a question. What's the consensus?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 07:16:27 PM
I didn't, it's a question. What's the consensus?


one in the boot...one in the coffin...one in the fridge...one in the flowerbed..one in the bluebag...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 07:19:27 PM
Are we all agreed that there was probably a body in the boot then?
Hilarious.  Can I use an emoji here? 
 *&^^&
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 07:21:09 PM
I still think I'm right though.

So how many of the aforementioned Trillions are likely to be non existent twins?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 07:22:29 PM
I didn't, it's a question. What's the consensus?
What’s your view? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 07:52:49 PM

one in the boot...one in the coffin...one in the fridge...one in the flowerbed..one in the bluebag...
So there's one in favour. Cheers.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 07:55:33 PM
What’s your view?
Well, hence the question. Need data. Has it been established that, on the balance of probabilities, there was a dead person in the boot of the hire car at some point?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 26, 2019, 07:56:43 PM
Well, hence the question. Need data. Has it been established that, on the balance of probabilities, there was a dead person in the boot of the hire car at some point?

No.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:01:27 PM
No.
There ya go. Thank you.
Off topic, I know, but why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:19:17 PM
Well, hence the question. Need data. Has it been established that, on the balance of probabilities, there was a dead person in the boot of the hire car at some point?

are you serious ...established by whom ...when and where
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:31:16 PM
are you serious ...established by whom ...when and where
Well what do you think? Your opinion, on the balance of probabilities. That's all.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:32:42 PM
Well what do you think? Your opinion, on the balance of probabilities. That's all.

zero
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 26, 2019, 08:33:49 PM
Well what do you think? Your opinion, on the balance of probabilities. That's all.

Balance of probabilities don't apply in criminal law, only in civil law.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:42:58 PM
Balance of probabilities don't apply in criminal law, only in civil law.
I'm well aware of the general terms of reference of law, but I'm not arguing a civil or criminal case, I'm asking what people's opinion is about the proposition that there was a body in the hire car at some point.
Yes or no. We are allowed to use the term 'balance of probabilities' in other contexts other than civil law. It's a reasonable mind weighing up a decision given all of the available data. It's not The Paisley Snail we're ruminating over here.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:44:18 PM
I'm well aware of the general terms of reference of law, but I'm not arguing a civil or criminal case, I'm asking what people's opinion is about the proposition that there was a body in the hire car at some point.
Yes or no. We are allowed to use the term 'balance of probabilities' in other contexts other than civil law. It's a reasonable mind weighing up a decision given all of the available data. It's not The Paisley Snail we're ruminating over here.

why is it important what is thought on this tiny forum...waht is important is the evidence to support it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 08:46:28 PM
So how many of the aforementioned Trillions are likely to be non existent twins?
Identical twins separated at birth will have happened at sometime in the past.
"5 True Stories of Twins Separated at Birth"  https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/5-true-stories-twins-separated-at-birth.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 08:46:32 PM
Well, hence the question. Need data. Has it been established that, on the balance of probabilities, there was a dead person in the boot of the hire car at some point?
No it hasn’t.  If it had the McCanns would probably hanging up in chains in a a Portuguese dungeon by now. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
No it hasn’t.  If it had the McCanns would probably hanging up in chains in a a Portuguese dungeon by now.
I meant established by the good patrons of this forum.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:49:06 PM
I'm well aware of the general terms of reference of law, but I'm not arguing a civil or criminal case, I'm asking what people's opinion is about the proposition that there was a body in the hire car at some point.
Yes or no. We are allowed to use the term 'balance of probabilities' in other contexts other than civil law. It's a reasonable mind weighing up a decision given all of the available data. It's not The Paisley Snail we're ruminating over here.

anyne who believes that there was abody in the hire car shows they are willing to believe it without a shred of evidence...which makes their opinion worthless
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 08:50:44 PM
I'm well aware of the general terms of reference of law, but I'm not arguing a civil or criminal case, I'm asking what people's opinion is about the proposition that there was a body in the hire car at some point.
Yes or no. We are allowed to use the term 'balance of probabilities' in other contexts other than civil law. It's a reasonable mind weighing up a decision given all of the available data. It's not The Paisley Snail we're ruminating over here.
Well I can't recall the McCanns (Gerry or Kate) ever denying there had been a cadaver in the boot of the hire car.  I have heard someone argue that it was unlikely to be Madeleine though. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 08:51:23 PM
I meant established by the good patrons of this forum.
How do you propose we establish such a thing? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:54:44 PM
why is it important what is thought on this tiny forum...
Then why are we here? We're very unlikely to suddenly stumble upon a breakthrough, so we discuss the minutiae of the case. Otherwise we may as all just pack up and b....r off home.
I want to know the consensus of opinion; that's why I'm here, I want to know what the hive mind says about this particular aspect of the case. That's why it's important.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
anyne who believes that there was abody in the hire car shows they are willing to believe it without a shred of evidence...which makes their opinion worthless
Can I chalk you down for a 'no' then?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 08:58:19 PM
Then why are we here? We're very unlikely to suddenly stumble upon a breakthrough, so we discuss the minutiae of the case. Otherwise we may as all just pack up and b....r off home.
I want to know the consensus of opinion; that's why I'm here, I want to know what the hive mind says about this particular aspect of the case. That's why it's important.
It’s not important what half a dozen poeple with too much time on their hands think about whether or not there was a corpse in the McCanns car, I assure you.  8**8:/:
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 08:59:27 PM
Then why are we here? We're very unlikely to suddenly stumble upon a breakthrough, so we discuss the minutiae of the case. Otherwise we may as all just pack up and b....r off home.
I want to know the consensus of opinion; that's why I'm here, I want to know what the hive mind says about this particular aspect of the case. That's why it's important.

so thats why its important to you...not why its important...as ive said...thers no evidence to support a body in the boot...anyone who admits to believing it is admitting their views re not based on evidence....as all mine are
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 26, 2019, 09:00:05 PM
I'm well aware of the general terms of reference of law, but I'm not arguing a civil or criminal case, I'm asking what people's opinion is about the proposition that there was a body in the hire car at some point.
Yes or no. We are allowed to use the term 'balance of probabilities' in other contexts other than civil law. It's a reasonable mind weighing up a decision given all of the available data. It's not The Paisley Snail we're ruminating over here.

Eddie didn't alert near the air vents in the boot lid of the Renault Scenic. We were reliably informed by both his handler & the many hundreds of dog enthusiasts on the internet that Eddie was never wrong. Therefore it should be concluded beyond reasonable doubt that there had never been a body in the boot or Eddie would have alerted.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 09:00:15 PM
How do you propose we establish such a thing?
There's only one way to find out.........FIGHT POLL!
POLL POLL POLL POLL! [marches off down the road, punching fist in air, shouting poll all the way to the Post Office and beyond]
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 09:01:50 PM
It’s not important what half a dozen poeple with too much time on their hands think about whether or not there was a corpse in the McCanns car, I assure you.  8**8:/:
Yet here you are, 6000 posts later.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 09:02:06 PM
Then why are we here? We're very unlikely to suddenly stumble upon a breakthrough, so we discuss the minutiae of the case. Otherwise we may as all just pack up and b....r off home.
I want to know the consensus of opinion; that's why I'm here, I want to know what the hive mind says about this particular aspect of the case. That's why it's important.
an imprtant point is taht mark Saukanoko says in his podcast that if maddie dna is found in the car it palces maddies body in the car...that is factually incorrect and to me shows he has neither the knowledge or the skills to be hosting a podcast on this case
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 09:04:33 PM
an imprtant point is taht mark Saukanoko says in his podcast that if maddie dna is found in the car it palces maddies body in the car...that is factually incorrect and to me shows he has neither the knowledge or the skills to be hosting a podcast on this case
Thanks Davel. This is what I'm after.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 09:07:41 PM
Yet here you are, 6000 posts later.
Unlike some people (you?) I do not have delusions of grandeur and do not view anything that I or anyone else writes on this forum as remotely important.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 26, 2019, 09:13:07 PM
Unlike some people (you?) I do not have delusions of grandeur and do not view anything that I or anyone else writes on this forum as remotely important.
I focus on unimportant trivia on an insignificant forum and am deluded. Got it.
Good job that opinion isn't important.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 26, 2019, 09:14:34 PM
I focus on unimportant trivia on an insignificant forum and am deluded. Got it.
Good job that opinion isn't important.
8((()*/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 26, 2019, 09:51:40 PM
an imprtant point is taht mark Saukanoko says in his podcast that if maddie dna is found in the car it palces maddies body in the car...that is factually incorrect and to me shows he has neither the knowledge or the skills to be hosting a podcast on this case
At this stage I tend to agree with Mark Suanokonoko.   DNA testing is sensitive enough to pick up 100 cells left behind.  There is a difference between 100 cells from 1 individual compared to 100 cells from 100 individuals all contributing 1 cell each.

OK Madeleine's shoes carried in the boot may lose cells into the boot but I doubt if that type of transfer has ever yielded an identifiable amount of DNA transferred.

Can anyone show me an example of transference?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 26, 2019, 10:08:45 PM
At this stage I tend to agree with Mark Suanokonoko.   DNA testing is sensitive enough to pick up 100 cells left behind.  There is a difference between 100 cells from 1 individual compared to 100 cells from 100 individuals all contributing 1 cell each.

OK Madeleine's shoes carried in the boot may lose cells into the boot but I doubt if that type of transfer has ever yielded an identifiable amount of DNA transferred.

Can anyone show me an example of transference?

You agree with Mark... Just about every court decision does not... I'm astonished you don't realize this.  ..this us exactly  why the case Re perlin I posted today was thrown out... And the Omagh bombing case was thrown out... Maddies DNA found in the car does not place maddies body in the car.. Fgs.. Do some research and educate yourself
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 26, 2019, 10:10:18 PM
At this stage I tend to agree with Mark Suanokonoko.   DNA testing is sensitive enough to pick up 100 cells left behind.  There is a difference between 100 cells from 1 individual compared to 100 cells from 100 individuals all contributing 1 cell each.

OK Madeleine's shoes carried in the boot may lose cells into the boot but I doubt if that type of transfer has ever yielded an identifiable amount of DNA transferred.

Can anyone show me an example of transference?

https://www.wired.com/story/dna-transfer-framed-murder/


Bear in mind Grime used dog leads at all the places he deployed the dogs. DNA from gloves used in 5A could quite easily have been transferred via the lead, onto latex gloves & into the areas in the Scenic boot where he was seen tapping areas for Keela to scent.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 26, 2019, 10:13:56 PM
Then there was this case of scent transfer which sent a police force looking for the wrong person.
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888126,00.html
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2019, 05:55:20 AM
Then there was this case of scent transfer which sent a police force looking for the wrong person.
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888126,00.html

As I have frequently said, DNA is not to be trusted.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on March 27, 2019, 07:50:50 AM
https://www.wired.com/story/dna-transfer-framed-murder/


Bear in mind Grime used dog leads at all the places he deployed the dogs. DNA from gloves used in 5A could quite easily have been transferred via the lead, onto latex gloves & into the areas in the Scenic boot where he was seen tapping areas for Keela to scent.
That's quite a stretch, particularly given that he couldn't possibly have contaminated the apartment in the same manner.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2019, 08:37:39 AM
https://www.wired.com/story/dna-transfer-framed-murder/


Bear in mind Grime used dog leads at all the places he deployed the dogs. DNA from gloves used in 5A could quite easily have been transferred via the lead, onto latex gloves & into the areas in the Scenic boot where he was seen tapping areas for Keela to scent.

Keela detected human blood, not DNA.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 10:45:23 AM
Keela detected human blood, not DNA.

You are stating opinion as fact again.... No confirmation of blood... That's the true fact
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2019, 12:30:46 PM
You are stating opinion as fact again.... No confirmation of blood... That's the true fact

Keela was never trained to detect DNA, so the idea that she would was pure speculation, don't you agree?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 12:49:45 PM
Keela was never trained to detect DNA, so the idea that she would was pure speculation, don't you agree?
The idea that the sample is blood is speculation...keela alerted to an area...a residue was found....we are not even certain it was this residue keela alerted to...but certainly teh residue was not identified as blood
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2019, 01:23:58 PM
The idea that the sample is blood is speculation...keela alerted to an area...a residue was found....we are not even certain it was this residue keela alerted to...but certainly teh residue was not identified as blood

You're extremely sceptical of everyone and everything except the T9, aren't you? Everything they say you accept whether they can support their claims with evidence or not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 01:34:53 PM
You're extremely sceptical of everyone and everything except the T9, aren't you? Everything they say you accept whether they can support their claims with evidence or not.

once again you are posting your opinion as fact...and once again you are wrong....I dont think the T9 are involved based on the evidence
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2019, 02:16:58 PM
once again you are posting your opinion as fact...and once again you are wrong....I dont think the T9 are involved based on the evidence

Based on your opinion of the evidence, which other's don't share. I certainly don't.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 02:30:48 PM
Based on your opinion of the evidence, which other's don't share. I certainly don't.
Of course others do share my opinion... Certainly SY and the PJ appear to.. And that's what's imoprtant
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 27, 2019, 02:45:50 PM
Of course others do share my opinion... Certainly SY and the PJ appear to.. And that's what's imoprtant
SY and the PJ appear to share your opinion do they? The sample from the boot of the car appears to match the DNA of the child. Which appearances is it you're asking people to accept?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 27, 2019, 02:47:58 PM
Of course others do share my opinion... Certainly SY and the PJ appear to.. And that's what's imoprtant

You know absolutely nothing about the opinion of the PJ and SY.

Due to judicial secrecy the PJ aren’t allowed to talk and SY can’t even if the wanted, or were, asked to as Portugal has primacy in this case. That’s why we were told in August 2007 that the parents were not suspects when we now know that they were. Why some appear to ignore this point is confusing.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 02:49:38 PM
SY and the PJ appear to share your opinion do they? The sample from the boot of the car appears to match the DNA of the child. Which appearances is it you're asking people to accept?
I'm not asking anyone to accept anything... There was no DNA match from the boot by the way...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 02:50:46 PM
You know absolutely nothing about the opinion of the PJ and SY.

Due to judicial secrecy the PJ aren’t allowed to talk and SY can’t even if the wanted, or were, asked to as Portugal has primacy in this case. That’s why we were told in August 2007 that the parents were not suspects when we now know that they were. Why some appear to ignore this point is confusing.
Your points have all been discussed and explained many times...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 27, 2019, 02:56:37 PM
I'm not asking anyone to accept anything... There was no DNA match from the boot by the way...
That seems fair enough.
Cite for there is no DNA match from the boot of the car? You're good at asking others for cites, so now it's your turn.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 03:08:04 PM
That seems fair enough.
Cite for there is no DNA match from the boot of the car? You're good at asking others for cites, so now it's your turn.

read lowes report
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 27, 2019, 03:13:41 PM
read lowes report
So you don't have a cite. We only have your opinion posted as fact. Okey Dokey.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 27, 2019, 03:19:19 PM
Your points have all been discussed and explained many times...

To your satisfaction.

The Portuguese have primacy in this case. SY could not tell us what is going on in either their or the PJ’s investigation without breaking judicial secrecy. That’s simply a fact.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 03:34:30 PM
To your satisfaction.

The Portuguese have primacy in this case. SY could not tell us what is going on in either their or the PJ’s investigation without breaking judicial secrecy. That’s simply a fact.

Not suspects... No evidence... Fact
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 03:57:58 PM
You are stating opinion as fact again.... No confirmation of blood... That's the true fact
Keela was definitely not trained to find Human DNA,
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 04:00:11 PM
Keela was definitely not trained to find Human DNA,
We all know she was trained to find blood... That doesn't mean what was recovered was blood... Just as Eddie wasn't trained to find coconuts... But that's what was recovered
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
Not suspects... No evidence... Fact
Wasn't that statement just referring to the McCanns and not the whole group , the T9? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 04:14:53 PM
Wasn't that statement just referring to the McCanns and not the whole group , the T9?



As I recall he was asked about the mccanns not the friends
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 27, 2019, 04:16:18 PM
Not suspects... No evidence... Fact
It sounds like you're beginning to sway over to my unknown crime theory.  8((()*/

I mean they're hardly likely to find out what happened with no suspects and no evidence, that's a fact.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 27, 2019, 04:21:47 PM
Wasn't that statement just referring to the McCanns and not the whole group , the T9?

"Neither her parents or any of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA

*This doesn't prove they didn't do it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 04:23:38 PM
As I recall he was asked about the mccanns not the friends
But in this thread the question was referring to the T9  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg517623#msg517623
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 04:27:00 PM
"Neither her parents or any of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA

*This doesn't prove they didn't do it.
That was then.  OK good find.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 27, 2019, 04:29:21 PM
"Neither her parents or any of the group that were with her are either persons of interest or suspects"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIH-AX2LlYA

*This doesn't prove they didn't do it.
Redwood can say that all he likes but unless he can show us proof of who Smithman is, what he says is not entirely true imo. He suspected him and there are said facts which remain unclarified as far as me and the final report is concerned.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 04:40:02 PM
We all know she was trained to find blood... That doesn't mean what was recovered was blood... Just as Eddie wasn't trained to find coconuts... But that's what was recovered
Eddie alerts to an area not a specific item.  It is the humans with him that determined he was alerting to a coconut.  In the McCann case it is the humans who couldn't find the blood components that Keela was alerting to.  Don't blame the dog for the human failings.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 04:55:18 PM
Eddie alerts to an area not a specific item.  It is the humans with him that determined he was alerting to a coconut.  In the McCann case it is the humans who couldn't find the blood components that Keela was alerting to.  Don't blame the dog for the human failings.

You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: John on March 27, 2019, 05:32:03 PM
You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value

It goes without saying that CSI and cadaver dogs are an invaluable resource in any missing person investigation. Certainly, errors are made occasionally like with most things, scent and cadaver detection can be prone to all sorts of external factors.  Every dog is unique and no two dogs ever receive the exact same training. These dogs have solved many cases which would otherwise remain unsolved.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 27, 2019, 05:41:50 PM
Not suspects... No evidence... Fact

No knowledge.....fact.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 27, 2019, 05:45:25 PM
Can you imagine the speed with which the parents would contact their lawyers if it was even suggested that they hadn’t been ruled out of the investigation ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 05:49:05 PM
It goes without saying that CSI and cadaver dogs are an invaluable resource in any missing person investigation. Certainly, errors are made occasionally like with most things, scent and cadaver detection can be prone to all sorts of external factors.  Every dog is unique and no two dogs ever receive the exact same training. These dogs have solved many cases which would otherwise remain unsolved.
From what I've seen cadaver and CSI dogs have been responsible for solving very.. Very.. Few cases... With good detective skills being far more important...
Prior to Luz Eddie only found one body.... And one since... In both PDL and Jersey the dogs discovered nothing of value..it's all hype.. Imo
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 27, 2019, 06:20:13 PM
Can you imagine the speed with which the parents would contact their lawyers if it was even suggested that they hadn’t been ruled out of the investigation ?
Don’t be silly please. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 07:58:13 PM
You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value
The dog alerting is a type of claim.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:03:46 PM
The dog alerting is a type of claim.

What di you mean by that
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 08:08:42 PM
What di you mean by that
I'm thinking the dog is saying "I have found what I'm trained to find and I want my reward".  So the dog is making a claim.

You could multiply that with the reliability estimate from training with known samples.  So for Grime's dogs you get 95% of the time that claim is correct.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:13:48 PM
I'm thinking the dog is saying "I have found what I'm trained to find and I want my reward".  So the dog is making a claim.

You could multiply that with the reliability estimate from training with known samples.  So for Grime's dogs you get 95% of the time that claim is correct.
Si when the coconut was discovered Eddie was doing tbe same... From what I have read what you cannot do is speculate and decide what the dog is thinking..
Keela alerted... No blood found.. Alert not corroborated... According to the experts
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 08:18:38 PM
Si when the coconut was discovered Eddie was doing tbe same... From what I have read what you cannot do is speculate and decide what the dog is thinking..
Keela alerted... No blood found.. Alert not corroborated... According to the experts

Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.

What would prevent a cadaver lying across a piece of coconut shell and this resulting in transference of cadaver odour?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:21:38 PM
Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.
I absolutely agree with you re your first statement...Keela never found this sample...a human decided what the dog alerted to....I have  a Wondeful German Shepeherd
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 08:24:00 PM
I absolutely agree with you re your first statement...Keela never found this sample...a human decided what the dog alerted to....I have  a Wondeful German Shepeherd
And have you tried to work out what your dog wants from time to time? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:24:45 PM
Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.

What would prevent a cadaver lying across a piece of coconut shell and this resulting in transference of cadaver odour?

this is what makes the alerts basically useless without corroborating evidence
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:26:10 PM
And have you tried to work out what your dog wants from time to time?

not sure what relevance taht has...it could be taht once the cadaver dog gets tired...he alerts knowing he will get a reward...may expalin all the unconfirmed alerts
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 08:30:43 PM
not sure what relevance taht has...it could be taht once the cadaver dog gets tired...he alerts knowing he will get a reward...may expalin all the unconfirmed alerts
While Eddie or Keela were working I never saw them being rewarded.  Maybe they don't get rewarded on actual forensic searches.

Which seems right IMO as the handler can never be certain the dog is correct or not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 27, 2019, 08:34:26 PM
While Eddie or Keela were working I never saw them being rewarded.  Maybe they don't get rewarded on actual forensic searches.

Which seems right IMO as the handler can never be certain the dog is correct or not.

need to ask Grime..i dont trust the alerts...particularly cuddle cat
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 08:38:30 PM
need to ask Grime..i dont trust the alerts...particularly cuddle cat
Does Saunokonoko mention cuddle cat?  Cuddle Cat is off topic if not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 27, 2019, 09:02:00 PM
While Eddie or Keela were working I never saw them being rewarded.  Maybe they don't get rewarded on actual forensic searches.

Which seems right IMO as the handler can never be certain the dog is correct or not.

They are tested to make sure they are correct. If they false alert in tests then bye bye. Their tennis ball is their reward.

"Apartment H5

We searched this apartment and the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog for finding things, as soon as we removed the tennis ball the interest was gone. And so it was a negative search."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2019, 09:23:19 PM
They are tested to make sure they are correct. If they false alert in tests then bye bye. Their tennis ball is their reward.

"Apartment H5

We searched this apartment and the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog for finding things, as soon as we removed the tennis ball the interest was gone. And so it was a negative search."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

I took that to mean that the tennis ball wasn't brought there for the purposes of rewarding the dog.

Rather the dog found a tennis ball in the apartment and hence was interested in playing with it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 27, 2019, 11:09:37 PM
Obviously because Martin Grime didn't put it there.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 27, 2019, 11:21:47 PM
They are tested to make sure they are correct. If they false alert in tests then bye bye. Their tennis ball is their reward.

"Apartment H5

We searched this apartment and the dog hasn't shown any interest in this particular apartment, apart from around the table, where there was a tennis ball which is how we reward the dog for finding things, as soon as we removed the tennis ball the interest was gone. And so it was a negative search."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Eddie showed a great deal of interest in something under a single bed in 5D, to the point that he was repeatedly ignoring Grime's orders. What was under the bed & why did Grime fail to mention it?

Edited to alter apartment number.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 12:04:53 AM
Eddie showed a great deal of interest in something under a single bed in 5H, to the point that he was repeatedly ignoring Grime's orders. What was under the bed & why did Grime fail to mention it?

Did he alert ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 12:28:06 AM
Did he alert ?

No, he didn't alert but appeared quite desperate to get to whatever was under the bed. He didn't alert near the sofa in 5A living room until he was allowed behind it...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2019, 01:42:34 AM
Eddie showed a great deal of interest in something under a single bed in 5H, to the point that he was repeatedly ignoring Grime's orders. What was under the bed & why did Grime fail to mention it?
It may have been a pair of knickers. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2019, 01:43:23 AM
Did he alert ?
He was never allowed to get close enough.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2019, 04:00:52 AM
Eddie showed a great deal of interest in something under a single bed in 5H, to the point that he was repeatedly ignoring Grime's orders. What was under the bed & why did Grime fail to mention it?
From memory it was in Russell O'Brien's apartment where the object was under the bed. 5D
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 01:14:07 PM
No, he didn't alert but appeared quite desperate to get to whatever was under the bed. He didn't alert near the sofa in 5A living room until he was allowed behind it...

If he didn’t alert then it is not relevant.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 01:54:57 PM
From memory it was in Russell O'Brien's apartment where the object was under the bed. 5D

Yes, you are correct. Apologies, I will amend my post.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 02:00:55 PM
If he didn’t alert then it is not relevant.

IMO because the dog showed interest in what was under the bed, the dog should have been granted access to under the bed in 5D. Eddie was not allowed to free-search in several locations, the search was controlled by the handler. Grime's diction changed from "go find, Eddie" to "no, Eddie, Eddie come (here) on many occasions - the latter instruction was frequently ignored by the dog.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 02:07:58 PM
IMO because the dog showed interest in what was under the bed, the dog should have been granted access to under the bed in 5D. Eddie was not allowed to free-search in several locations, the search was controlled by the handler. Grime's diction changed from "go find, Eddie" to "no, Eddie, Eddie come (here) on many occasions - the latter instruction was frequently ignored by the dog.

If any old Tom, Dick or Harry could interpret the dog’s behaviour then we’d all be cadaver dog trainers.

I do find it disturbing that in almost all your posts re Grime you appear to be questioning his professionalism. Am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 02:18:33 PM
If any old Tom, Dick or Harry could interpret the dog’s behaviour then we’d all be cadaver dog trainers.

I do find it disturbing that in almost all your posts re Grime you appear to be questioning his professionalism. Am I mistaken?

No, you are not mistaken. Why would that be any more disturbing than questioning the honesty of a group of professionals, two of whom have both their daughter's fate & their own lives & liberty at stake? Right or wrong, Grime had nothing to lose in Luz.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 02:23:39 PM
No, you are not mistaken. Why would that be any more disturbing than questioning the honesty of a group of professionals, two of whom have both their daughter's fate & their own lives & liberty at stake? Right or wrong, Grime had nothing to lose in Luz.

Let’s be clear, are you saying that Grime deliberately sought to implicate the McCanns ? If so he knew that the alerts would have no worth unless verified by forensics so what would be the point ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 02:41:53 PM
Let’s be clear, are you saying that Grime deliberately sought to implicate the McCanns ? If so he knew that the alerts would have no worth unless verified by forensics so what would be the point ?

No, I'm not saying Grime sought to implicate the McCanns; that was the PJ's remit imo. Fortunately for the McCanns, the corroborating forensics located were not sent to the INML & used as they were in the Cipriano case.
What I am saying is that the dog should have been allowed to free-search for what it was trained to find - Eddie shouldn't have needed controlling if he was the world's best.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 02:54:00 PM
No, I'm not saying Grime sought to implicate the McCanns; that was the PJ's remit imo. Fortunately for the McCanns, the corroborating forensics located were not sent to the INML & used as they were in the Cipriano case.
What I am saying is that the dog should have been allowed to free-search for what it was trained to find - Eddie shouldn't have needed controlling if he was the world's best.

But Grime must have colluded with the PJ as must Mark Harrison as I believe he accompanied Grime.

What you seem to be saying is the PJ, Grime, Harrison and the INML all colluded to set up the McCanns. Is this correct ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 02:59:55 PM
But Grime must have colluded with the PJ as must Mark Harrison as I believe he accompanied Grime.

What you seem to be saying is the PJ, Grime, Harrison and the INML all colluded to set up the McCanns. Is this correct ?

No.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 03:13:20 PM
No.

Then please explain ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2019, 04:40:19 PM
But Grime must have colluded with the PJ as must Mark Harrison as I believe he accompanied Grime.

What you seem to be saying is the PJ, Grime, Harrison and the INML all colluded to set up the McCanns. Is this correct ?
Emphasise might be a better term than set up. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 28, 2019, 05:36:25 PM
If any old Tom, Dick or Harry could interpret the dog’s behaviour then we’d all be cadaver dog trainers.
..
I do find it disturbing that in almost all your posts re Grime you appear to be questioning his professionalism. Am I mistaken?

I understand  Sil has trained a fully operational cadaver dog..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 28, 2019, 05:40:32 PM
I understand  Sil has trained a fully operational cadaver dog..
I wonder what qualifications Grime has that makes him a supreme interpreter of dog behaviour?  Can you get an ology in dog barks?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 05:42:52 PM
Then please explain ?

I can't explain why Grime concluded that Eddie had alerted to certain items e.g. CC & the tiles behind the sofa when it's apparent from the video he didn't.
I can't explain why Eddie alerted to a minute piece of blood deposited on a key inside the glove pocket of a closed vehicle but didn't find a single trace on the streets of Luz or in any other apartment examined bar 5A.
I can't explain why Grime & Harrison allowed the dogs to examine clothing which had not been individually bagged as per ACPO guidelines and, furthermore, handled by multiple people during the transfer from villa to gym.
I can't explain why Grime used a video which was part of police evidence in an ongoing case to promote his dogs for the purpose of obtaining freelance work in another police case.
Can you explain why this "police work" should be deemed professional and, as I haven't yet listened to Saunokonoko's take on the dogs, why he would think any of the forensics harvested from the dog searches could one day solve the case?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 06:45:13 PM
I can't explain why Grime concluded that Eddie had alerted to certain items e.g. CC & the tiles behind the sofa when it's apparent from the video he didn't.
I can't explain why Eddie alerted to a minute piece of blood deposited on a key inside the glove pocket of a closed vehicle but didn't find a single trace on the streets of Luz or in any other apartment examined bar 5A.
I can't explain why Grime & Harrison allowed the dogs to examine clothing which had not been individually bagged as per ACPO guidelines and, furthermore, handled by multiple people during the transfer from villa to gym.
I can't explain why Grime used a video which was part of police evidence in an ongoing case to promote his dogs for the purpose of obtaining freelance work in another police case.
Can you explain why this "police work" should be deemed professional and, as I haven't yet listened to Saunokonoko's take on the dogs, why he would think any of the forensics harvested from the dog searches could one day solve the case?

Then you need to make up your mind. Either Grime, Harrison et al conspired to set up the McCanns as you seem to be implying or they didn’t. Please answer with an answer and not more questions.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2019, 06:56:15 PM
Then you need to make up your mind. Either Grime, Harrison et al conspired to set up the McCanns as you seem to imply or they didn’t. Please answer with an answer and not more questions.
It would be still opinion.   There seems to be a discontinuity between what Grime says and does on the video.  Was it done subconsciously?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 28, 2019, 07:23:26 PM
I wonder if Grime has ever been to a suspected crime scene and his digs have not alerted
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 07:44:19 PM
I wonder if Grime has ever been to a suspected crime scene and his digs have not alerted

I would have thought so, if a cadaver hadn’t been present at some point.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 28, 2019, 07:46:50 PM
I would have thought so, if a cadaver hadn’t been present at some point.


I'm not bothered what you think I'm asking a factual question
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
I can't explain why Grime concluded that Eddie had alerted to certain items e.g. CC & the tiles behind the sofa when it's apparent from the video he didn't.
I can't explain why Eddie alerted to a minute piece of blood deposited on a key inside the glove pocket of a closed vehicle but didn't find a single trace on the streets of Luz or in any other apartment examined bar 5A.
I can't explain why Grime & Harrison allowed the dogs to examine clothing which had not been individually bagged as per ACPO guidelines and, furthermore, handled by multiple people during the transfer from villa to gym.
I can't explain why Grime used a video which was part of police evidence in an ongoing case to promote his dogs for the purpose of obtaining freelance work in another police case.
Can you explain why this "police work" should be deemed professional and, as I haven't yet listened to Saunokonoko's take on the dogs, why he would think any of the forensics harvested from the dog searches could one day solve the case?

You can't explain? Perhaps that's because you know nothing about how these matters are organised. Everything you question is probably nothing unisual if you understand it all, which Grime and Harrison did. All you need to know is that both men were the best the UK had.

They worked together as the experts advising all UK police forces. If your criticisms are valid then ACPO were offering advisers who were inadequate. You are saying that ACPO's judgement was faulty. You are also accusing the FBI of faulty judgement when they praised Grime's expertise.

Do you really think that you spotted mistakes which none of those others spotted? I find that idea ludicrous.

All IMO, obviously.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 07:56:08 PM
I wonder if Grime has ever been to a suspected crime scene and his digs have not alerted

The Murat residence for one.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 28, 2019, 07:57:08 PM
You can't explain? Perhaps that's because you know nothing about how these matters are organised. Everything you question is probably nothing unisual if you understand it all, which Grime and Harrison did. All you need to know is that both men were the best the UK had.

They worked together as the experts advising all UK police forces. If your criticisms are valid then ACPO were offering advisers who were inadequate. You are saying that ACPO's judgement was faulty. You are also accusing the FBI of faulty judgement when they praised Grime's expertise.

Do you really think that you spotted mistakes which none of those others spotted? I find that idea ludicrous.

All IMO, obviously.

Harrison said no inference can be drawn from the alerts...you know what Grime said... Absolutely  valueless
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 28, 2019, 08:07:12 PM
You can't explain? Perhaps that's because you know nothing about how these matters are organised. Everything you question is probably nothing unisual if you understand it all, which Grime and Harrison did. All you need to know is that both men were the best the UK had.

They worked together as the experts advising all UK police forces. If your criticisms are valid then ACPO were offering advisers who were inadequate. You are saying that ACPO's judgement was faulty. You are also accusing the FBI of faulty judgement when they praised Grime's expertise.

Do you really think that you spotted mistakes which none of those others spotted? I find that idea ludicrous.

All IMO, obviously.
You do realise you do this all the time on this forum don’t you?  IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 28, 2019, 08:18:22 PM

I'm not bothered what you think I'm asking a factual question

You asked a question and I answered it.

Can I suggest if you want a definitive answer you do some research ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 09:24:14 PM
Harrison said no inference can be drawn from the alerts...you know what Grime said... Absolutely  valueless

If the results are absolutely valueless there's no need whatsoever to try and discredit their methodology, is there? Also, if their search methods were inadequate why believe their words?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 28, 2019, 09:33:40 PM
If the results are absolutely valueless there's no need whatsoever to try and discredit their methodology, is there? Also, if their search methods were inadequate why believe their words?

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense... Imo
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 09:46:26 PM
Your post doesn't make a lot of sense... Imo

Were they incompetent as one person is arguing? Or were they competent as you seem to be suggesting?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 09:54:41 PM
You can't explain? Perhaps that's because you know nothing about how these matters are organised. Everything you question is probably nothing unisual if you understand it all, which Grime and Harrison did. All you need to know is that both men were the best the UK had.

They worked together as the experts advising all UK police forces. If your criticisms are valid then ACPO were offering advisers who were inadequate. You are saying that ACPO's judgement was faulty. You are also accusing the FBI of faulty judgement when they praised Grime's expertise.

Do you really think that you spotted mistakes which none of those others spotted? I find that idea ludicrous.

All IMO, obviously.

Harrison's expertise was geo-forensics & locating missing people, not cadaver dog handling. He worked for NPIA, not ACPO.
To the best of my knowledge, Eddie was Grime's first cadaver dog. His CV was with NPIA - was that standard practice for all serving UK police dog handlers?
I am not the only person on this forum to conclude that Eddie did not alert to CC & my earlier post did not include that claim.
Instead of criticising what I can't explain after watching the Luz video & copious amounts of research (bearing in mind I could be on a jury asked to consider similar evidence) perhaps you could present the dog evidence in a form other than "because Grime said so..."
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 10:06:32 PM
Harrison's expertise was geo-forensics & locating missing people, not cadaver dog handling. He worked for NPIA, not ACPO.
To the best of my knowledge, Eddie was Grime's first cadaver dog. His CV was with NPIA - was that standard practice for all serving UK police dog handlers?
I am not the only person on this forum to conclude that Eddie did not alert to CC & my earlier post did not include that claim.
Instead of criticising what I can't explain after watching the Luz video & copious amounts of research (bearing in mind I could be on a jury asked to consider similar evidence) perhaps you could present the dog evidence in a form other than "because Grime said so..."
Tell me, when you were conducting this research, did you ever discover what exact date they were told about the dogs going to PDL?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 10:30:57 PM
Tell me, when you were conducting this research, did you ever discover what exact date they were told about the dogs going to PDL?

Who is "they"?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 10:32:37 PM
Who is "they"?
Sorry, the McCanns?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 10:38:29 PM
Sorry, the McCanns?

What relevance does that date have to the subsequent dog deployments?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 10:41:22 PM
What relevance does that date have to the subsequent dog deployments?
I never said it had any relevance, I was only asking. Do you know at all, and who it was that told them?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
I never said it had any relevance, I was only asking. Do you know at all, and who it was that told them?

In Harrison's report of 23(?) July 2007 he referred to the use of a VRD dog team & an EVRD + CSI blood dog. He only costed the EVRD + CSI dog. Therefore any decision to only use Eddie & Keela must have been made on or after that date but I don't know offhand who told the McCanns. Gerry had previously asked for specialist dogs from the UK to be deployed & the UK police had offered such a service to the PJ in the early days but the PJ declined.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 10:54:12 PM
Harrison's expertise was geo-forensics & locating missing people, not cadaver dog handling. He worked for NPIA, not ACPO.
To the best of my knowledge, Eddie was Grime's first cadaver dog. His CV was with NPIA - was that standard practice for all serving UK police dog handlers?
I am not the only person on this forum to conclude that Eddie did not alert to CC & my earlier post did not include that claim.
Instead of criticising what I can't explain after watching the Luz video & copious amounts of research (bearing in mind I could be on a jury asked to consider similar evidence) perhaps you could present the dog evidence in a form other than "because Grime said so..."

So the National Polucing Improvement Agency were sending out two men to advise all UK police agencies and they never noticed those men were incompetent?  &%%6 how clever are you!!





Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 28, 2019, 11:04:56 PM
So the National Polucing Improvement Agency were sending out two men to advise all UK police agencies and they never noticed those men were incompetent?  &%%6 how clever are you!!
There is incompetence in all areas of both the public and private sectors and at all levels from CEO to cleaner, the police are certainly not exempt- did you watch the Yorkshire Ripper documentary?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 11:12:45 PM
So the National Polucing Improvement Agency were sending out two men to advise all UK police agencies and they never noticed those men were incompetent?  &%%6 how clever are you!!

I'm at a loss to understand what you mean. Harrison was sent out to consider where Madeleine's body may have been buried, had she been murdered, based on his knowledge of geo-forensics. That's his specialist field (hence his involvement in the searches for flight MH370 which didn't require dogs). He wasn't qualified to recognise the capability levels of a cadaver dog or handler & if a dog's record is based on the number of bodies it locates then Eddie didn't score very highly imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 11:24:01 PM
In Harrison's report of 23(?) July 2007 he referred to the use of a VRD dog team & an EVRD + CSI blood dog. He only costed the EVRD + CSI dog. Therefore any decision to only use Eddie & Keela must have been made on or after that date but I don't know offhand who told the McCanns. Gerry had previously asked for specialist dogs from the UK to be deployed & the UK police had offered such a service to the PJ in the early days but the PJ declined.
Seems a strange request from Gerry don't you think given he viewed these specialist dogs as incredibly unreliable?
However, Harrison was actually sent on the 20th of July prior to writing his report. Gerry was in direct telephone contact with Stuart Prior between 3rd to 19th July and hey presto 12th of July cuddle cat goes into the washing machine.
I make absolutely no apologies for refusing point blank to buy the 'it was filthy with suntan lotion' excuse - no way. IMO no normal grieving mother or father washes their missing child's soft toy while their still missing. If so, cite a single example? I lost a handicapped sister some years ago and she had a soft toy that's a small dog of all things, it's dirty, it's dusty it's got her soul all over it. The thought of putting it through a wash will never enter my head. They had 70 days to wash the toy, the fact is, they choose to do it around the time of learning about the dogs, 12th July. Martin Grimes said the dog alerted to the toy and Kate popping it into the washing confirms that alert without any doubt to me.
From my personal experience, no amount of research on cadaver dogs will ever mitigate two innocent parents of a missing child washing their missing daughter's soft toy. Just doesn't happen imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 28, 2019, 11:24:19 PM
In Harrison's report of 23(?) July 2007 he referred to the use of a VRD dog team & an EVRD + CSI blood dog. He only costed the EVRD + CSI dog. Therefore any decision to only use Eddie & Keela must have been made on or after that date but I don't know offhand who told the McCanns. Gerry had previously asked for specialist dogs from the UK to be deployed & the UK police had offered such a service to the PJ in the early days but the PJ declined.

Mark Harrison knew all about these dogs well before the McCann case.

31 DEC 2005

Her handler, Pc Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year.

Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said Keela - officially a crime scene investigation dog - has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley.

 http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2005/12/how-police-dog-earns-more-than-top.html
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 11:31:18 PM
Tell me, when you were conducting this research, did you ever discover what exact date they were told about the dogs going to PDL?

According to Kate's book they may have been told on 18th July, but she isn't soecific about who told them. She says the NPIA received the request on 20th July and Harrison must have moved fast as his first report was written on 23rd. Gerry McCann flew to Washington that day. On 20th Jose de Freitas visited their villa and said something about the planning for the searches.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 11:35:59 PM
According to Kate's book they may have been told on 18th July, but she isn't soecific about who told them. She says the NPIA received the request on 20th July and Harrison must have moved fast as his first report was written on 23rd. Gerry McCann flew to Washington that day. On 20th Jose de Freitas visited their villa and said something about the planning for the searches.
I knew I seen the 18th somewhere thanks, but Gerry was also in direct contact with Stuart Prior between the 3rd and the day after the 18th. July is also when the car began to stink.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 11:42:59 PM
Seems a strange request from Gerry don't you think given he viewed these specialist dogs as incredibly unreliable?
However, Harrison was actually sent on the 20th of July prior to writing his report. Gerry was in direct telephone contact with Stuart Prior between 3rd to 19th July and hey presto 12th of July cuddle cat goes into the washing machine.
I make absolutely no apologies for refusing point blank to buy the 'it was filthy with suntan lotion' excuse - no way. IMO no normal grieving mother or father washes their missing child's soft toy while their still missing. If so, cite a single example? I lost a handicapped sister some years ago and she had a soft toy that's a small dog of all things, it's dirty, it's dusty it's got her soul all over it. The thought of putting it through a wash will never enter my head. They had 70 days to wash the toy, the fact is, they choose to do it around the time of learning about the dogs, 12th July. Martin Grimes said the dog alerted to the toy and Kate popping it into the washing confirms that alert without any doubt to me.
From my personal experience, no amount of research on cadaver dogs will ever mitigate two innocent parents of a missing child washing their missing daughter's soft toy. Just doesn't happen imo.

I am sorry for your loss and assume your sister's toy dog remained within the confines of your home rather than carried around a holiday resort by mum & siblings.
From Kate's diary http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
THURSDAY, JULY 12: I hate the person who took my Madeleine'the same one who has caused all this trouble, who made us feel worthless and mistrustful and mainly who has frightened my beautiful Madeleine. I will never forgive that person/those people for this. Never.

Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX


Please then read the entry of Wed 18th July 2007.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 11:43:29 PM
Seems a strange request from Gerry don't you think given he viewed these specialist dogs as incredibly unreliable?
However, Harrison was actually sent on the 20th of July prior to writing his report. Gerry was in direct telephone contact with Stuart Prior between 3rd to 19th July and hey presto 12th of July cuddle cat goes into the washing machine.
I make absolutely no apologies for refusing point blank to buy the 'it was filthy with suntan lotion' excuse - no way. IMO no normal grieving mother or father washes their missing child's soft toy while their still missing. If so, cite a single example? I lost a handicapped sister some years ago and she had a soft toy that's a small dog of all things, it's dirty, it's dusty it's got her soul all over it. The thought of putting it through a wash will never enter my head. They had 70 days to wash the toy, the fact is, they choose to do it around the time of learning about the dogs, 12th July. Martin Grimes said the dog alerted to the toy and Kate popping it into the washing confirms that alert without any doubt to me.
From my personal experience, no amount of research on cadaver dogs will ever mitigate two innocent parents of a missing child washing their missing daughter's soft toy. Just doesn't happen imo.

My grandson was killed in an RTA 7 years ago and my daughter still has his unwashed clothes. Madeleine's clothes went to the laundry almost straight away. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 28, 2019, 11:45:21 PM
Seems a strange request from Gerry don't you think given he viewed these specialist dogs as incredibly unreliable?
However, Harrison was actually sent on the 20th of July prior to writing his report. Gerry was in direct telephone contact with Stuart Prior between 3rd to 19th July and hey presto 12th of July cuddle cat goes into the washing machine.
I make absolutely no apologies for refusing point blank to buy the 'it was filthy with suntan lotion' excuse - no way. IMO no normal grieving mother or father washes their missing child's soft toy while their still missing. If so, cite a single example? I lost a handicapped sister some years ago and she had a soft toy that's a small dog of all things, it's dirty, it's dusty it's got her soul all over it. The thought of putting it through a wash will never enter my head. They had 70 days to wash the toy, the fact is, they choose to do it around the time of learning about the dogs, 12th July. Martin Grimes said the dog alerted to the toy and Kate popping it into the washing confirms that alert without any doubt to me.
From my personal experience, no amount of research on cadaver dogs will ever mitigate two innocent parents of a missing child washing their missing daughter's soft toy. Just doesn't happen imo.
What personal experience have you had of innocent parents of missing children and their soft toy cleanliness regimes?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 28, 2019, 11:47:51 PM
My grandson was killed in an RTA 7 years ago and my daughter still has his unwashed clothes. Madeleine's clothes went to the laundry almost straight away.
I am sorry for your loss but what is the point of tnis observation ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 28, 2019, 11:50:53 PM
Mark Harrison knew all about these dogs well before the McCann case.

31 DEC 2005

Her handler, Pc Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year.

Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said Keela - officially a crime scene investigation dog - has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley.

 http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/2005/12/how-police-dog-earns-more-than-top.html

How did that joint training come about, given that Grime worked for SYP (living in Doncaster?) & Harrison worked for Bedford police & was often deployed abroad?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2019, 11:53:08 PM
I am sorry for your loss but what is the point of tnis observation ?

If you read Cheeky Monkey's post you will understand.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 28, 2019, 11:59:33 PM
I am sorry for your loss and assume your sister's toy dog remained within the confines of your home rather than carried around a holiday resort by mum & siblings.
From Kate's diary http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
THURSDAY, JULY 12: I hate the person who took my Madeleine'the same one who has caused all this trouble, who made us feel worthless and mistrustful and mainly who has frightened my beautiful Madeleine. I will never forgive that person/those people for this. Never.

Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX


Please then read the entry of Wed 18th July 2007.
I was only providing a personal example, I wasn't looking for sympathy but thanks all the same, it's not went unnoticed.
With all due respect, there is nothing in Kate's diary from any day, which I believe she wrote to be read anyway, that mitigates her washing her missing daughter's soft toy imo. It's going to take an alive Madeleine McCann to convince me otherwise on that one. It's because she washed it, and we don't know how many times, that proves beyond all reasonable doubt in my mind, the alert to the toy was an accurate one.
IMO innocent parents just do not wash their missing child's soft toys. If you think they do, then that's your opinion, definitely not mine. I find the whole idea simply not believable and there's not a thing I can do about that. Good old East End of Glasgow human intuition I suppose. It's never let me down yet.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
What personal experience have you had of innocent parents of missing children and their soft toy cleanliness regimes?
My personal experience is with my late handicapped sister's soft toy and my non cleaning regime. If you have examples of innocent parents washing their missing children's favorite soft toys while their still missing I'll be more than willing to listen to them?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 12:06:31 AM
My grandson was killed in an RTA 7 years ago and my daughter still has his unwashed clothes. Madeleine's clothes went to the laundry almost straight away.

And her sticker book was torn to pieces. Surely it should have been treasured not destroyed?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 12:15:48 AM
I was only providing a personal example, I wasn't looking for sympathy but thanks all the same, it's not went unnoticed.
With all due respect, there is nothing in Kate's diary from any day, which I believe she wrote to be read anyway, that mitigates her washing her missing daughter's soft toy imo. It's going to take an alive Madeleine McCann to convince me otherwise on that one. It's because she washed it, and we don't know how many times, that proves beyond all reasonable doubt in my mind, the alert to the toy was an accurate one.
IMO innocent parents just do not wash their missing child's soft toys. If you think they do, then that's your opinion, definitely not mine. I find the whole idea simply not believable and there's not a thing I can do about that. Good old East End of Glasgow human intuition I suppose. It's never let me down yet.

Once upon a time on this forum there was a super-observant poster called Pegasus. The CC alert was discussed at length & from his observations by freeze-framing the sequence of images immediately before Eddie barked we learned that Eddie's nose had been pointed at the dining table top & not the cupboard from which CC was retrieved & displayed. May I recommend you try that process & your opinion may change - and bear in mind the PJ also questioned why the dog passed by & played with CC in the living area without alerting more than once.
As to washing the toy - I probably would have washed it after 2 months if it was becoming a health hazard to my other children.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 12:16:55 AM
My personal experience is with my late handicapped sister's soft toy and my non cleaning regime. If you have examples of innocent parents washing their missing children's favorite soft toys while their still missing I'll be more than willing to listen to them?

I think the McCanns are the exception rather than the rule.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 12:18:06 AM
Once upon a time on this forum there was a super-observant poster called Pegasus. The CC alert was discussed at length & from his observations by freeze-framing the sequence of images immediately before Eddie barked we learned that Eddie's nose had been pointed at the dining table top & not the cupboard from which CC was retrieved & displayed. May I recommend you try that process & your opinion may change - and bear in mind the PJ also questioned why the dog passed by & played with CC in the living area without alerting more than once.
As to washing the toy - I probably would have washed it after 2 months if it was becoming a health hazard to my other children.

I would have put it in something protective. I certainly would never have thought of using it as a prop ( I believe in the villa footage with Eddie CC was thrown in a corner ).
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 12:23:02 AM
I would have put it in something protective. I certainly would never have thought of using it as a prop ( I believe in the villa footage with Eddie CC was thrown in a corner ).

IMO if the police had done their job properly CC would have been suitably protected in an evidence bag from 4th May 2007...but there we go.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:29:40 AM
Once upon a time on this forum there was a super-observant poster called Pegasus. The CC alert was discussed at length & from his observations by freeze-framing the sequence of images immediately before Eddie barked we learned that Eddie's nose had been pointed at the dining table top & not the cupboard from which CC was retrieved & displayed. May I recommend you try that process & your opinion may change - and bear in mind the PJ also questioned why the dog passed by & played with CC in the living area without alerting more than once.
As to washing the toy - I probably would have washed it after 2 months if it was becoming a health hazard to my other children.
My opinion will change if I see an alive Madeleine McCann. Otherwise forget it. Innocent parents just don't wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. It is really that simple. My sister's dirty old toy has been 16 years in my possession, it's never caused anyone in my home ill health.
If your happy with Kate's excuse who am I to question you. Fortunately, I'm the one with the East End of Glasgow intuition. It's never let me down yet, and there's absolutely no doubt it won't let me down now. You'll never convince me innocent parents wash their missing child's favorite soft toys when their still missing. That simply just does not happen. I'd put that one in the myths basket if I were you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 12:36:53 AM
IMO if the police had done their job properly CC would have been suitably protected in an evidence bag from 4th May 2007...but there we go.

But he wasn’t and it appears was cast aside in a corner when not needed for the cameras.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 12:42:42 AM
But he wasn’t and it appears was cast aside in a corner when not needed for the cameras.

The PJ were filming the exercise at the villa - so who put CC in the bin? Didn't Jon Corner say PJ wanted CC left at the villa but the parents out of it?

ETA

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm
Jon Corner - Panorama documentary


 
"CORNER: Well this is the bizarre thing Richard because the police said to Kate and Gerry: "Yeah, we're going to be coming along, we want to do some forensics." And Kate and Gerry were massively optimistic about this. You've got to remember if your daughter is missing and the police phone you and say: "We want to do some forensics, that's a straw that you hang onto. That's a moment for optimism.
 
- Just earlier in the documentary, Corner had said this:
 
CORNER: They took most of their clothing, they were taking even the wet clothes out of the washing machine. I was aware that the cuddlecat was boxed up and we were asked to leave the villa."
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:55:00 AM
The PJ were filming the exercise at the villa - so who put CC in the bin? Didn't Jon Corner say PJ wanted CC left at the villa but the parents out of it?

ETA

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm
Jon Corner - Panorama documentary


 
"CORNER: Well this is the bizarre thing Richard because the police said to Kate and Gerry: "Yeah, we're going to be coming along, we want to do some forensics." And Kate and Gerry were massively optimistic about this. You've got to remember if your daughter is missing and the police phone you and say: "We want to do some forensics, that's a straw that you hang onto. That's a moment for optimism.
 
- Just earlier in the documentary, Corner had said this:
 
CORNER: They took most of their clothing, they were taking even the wet clothes out of the washing machine. I was aware that the cuddlecat was boxed up and we were asked to leave the villa."
It's always intrigued me to learn if the clothes went into the wash before the police warned them they were coming along or after. She likes her washing machine our Kate. Her timing is not missed on us either.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 01:04:24 AM
The PJ were filming the exercise at the villa - so who put CC in the bin? Didn't Jon Corner say PJ wanted CC left at the villa but the parents out of it?

ETA

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm
Jon Corner - Panorama documentary


 
"CORNER: Well this is the bizarre thing Richard because the police said to Kate and Gerry: "Yeah, we're going to be coming along, we want to do some forensics." And Kate and Gerry were massively optimistic about this. You've got to remember if your daughter is missing and the police phone you and say: "We want to do some forensics, that's a straw that you hang onto. That's a moment for optimism.
 
- Just earlier in the documentary, Corner had said this:
 
CORNER: They took most of their clothing, they were taking even the wet clothes out of the washing machine. I was aware that the cuddlecat was boxed up and we were asked to leave the villa."

Yet we now know that the by this time the McCanns knew that the police suspected them of not telling the truth and would have known that any forensic searches that were being carried out were not a cause for optimism. So either the parents didn’t tell their friend Corner that the PJ suspected them or Corner is being dishonest in stating that the parents were optimistic about the searches.

I love these old interviews. So revealing when compared with what we know now.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 01:11:13 AM
Yet we now know that the by this time the McCanns knew that the police suspected them of not telling the truth and would have known that any forensic searches that were being carried out were not a cause for optimism. So either the parents didn’t tell their friend Corner that the PJ suspected them or Corner is being dishonest in stating that the parents were optimistic about the searches.

I love these old interviews. So revealing when compared with what we know now.

Surely it was a cause for optimism when all items taken by the PJ were returned without being retained for further analysis, despite what was being leaked to the press?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 01:16:23 AM
Surely it was a cause for optimism when all items taken by the PJ were returned without being retained for further analysis, despite what was being leaked to the press?

But that’s not what Corner says. He said the parents were optimistic about the searches taking place which we know is simply not true as they knew they were suspected of having a part in their daughter’s disappearance. Do you think Corner wasn’t told or was he simply lying ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 01:27:21 AM
But that’s not what Corner says. He said the parents were optimistic about the searches taking place which we know is simply not true as they knew they were suspected of having a part in their daughter’s disappearance. Do you think Corner wasn’t told or was he simply lying ?

I've no idea what he was told but he did say he didn't share their optimism at the time. Possibly Kate & Gerry mistakenly thought PJ had some DNA from a suspect & wanted to match it to specific items in the McCanns' possession - as you would if you were innocent & very little else was being done to find Madeleine.
I wonder why the villa was searched by Eddie before Casa Liliana was?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 01:32:25 AM
I've no idea what he was told but he did say he didn't share their optimism at the time. Possibly Kate & Gerry mistakenly thought PJ had some DNA from a suspect & wanted to match it to specific items in the McCanns' possession - as you would if you were innocent & very little else was being done to find Madeleine.
I wonder why the villa was searched by Eddie before Casa Liliana was?

I think the parents weren’t as niave as you appear to be
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 01:37:45 AM
It's always intrigued me to learn if the clothes went into the wash before the police warned them they were coming along or after. She likes her washing machine our Kate. Her timing is not missed on us either.

I take it you're male & have no idea just how many clothes toddlers get through in a short space of time. The family didn't have their whole wardrobes of clothes with them, either.
The PJ told them they would be there in the morning...it was 6pm before their arrival.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 01:42:22 AM
I think the parents weren’t as niave as you appear to be

Maybe they were trying to live in hope rather than fear - for Madeleine's sake.
 And I'm far from naive, Faith.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 06:32:46 AM
If the results are absolutely valueless there's no need whatsoever to try and discredit their methodology, is there? Also, if their search methods were inadequate why believe their words?

In a Court of Law it wouldn't be necessary.  On a Discussion Forum it is the whole point.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 06:44:23 AM
I was only providing a personal example, I wasn't looking for sympathy but thanks all the same, it's not went unnoticed.
With all due respect, there is nothing in Kate's diary from any day, which I believe she wrote to be read anyway, that mitigates her washing her missing daughter's soft toy imo. It's going to take an alive Madeleine McCann to convince me otherwise on that one. It's because she washed it, and we don't know how many times, that proves beyond all reasonable doubt in my mind, the alert to the toy was an accurate one.
IMO innocent parents just do not wash their missing child's soft toys. If you think they do, then that's your opinion, definitely not mine. I find the whole idea simply not believable and there's not a thing I can do about that. Good old East End of Glasgow human intuition I suppose. It's never let me down yet.

My own experience of Glaswegians is that they are very kind.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 07:24:56 AM
My opinion will change if I see an alive Madeleine McCann. Otherwise forget it. Innocent parents just don't wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. It is really that simple. My sister's dirty old toy has been 16 years in my possession, it's never caused anyone in my home ill health.
If your happy with Kate's excuse who am I to question you. Fortunately, I'm the one with the East End of Glasgow intuition. It's never let me down yet, and there's absolutely no doubt it won't let me down now. You'll never convince me innocent parents wash their missing child's favorite soft toys when their still missing. That simply just does not happen. I'd put that one in the myths basket if I were you.
If it is a certainty that innocent parents never wash their missing child’s dirty toy after two months then this is conclusive proof that they are guilty.  Why then have they not been charged and found guilty?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 07:27:45 AM
Maybe they were trying to live in hope rather than fear - for Madeleine's sake.
 And I'm far from naive, Faith.


Your posts have never indicated that this would be an apt description of yourself.
Faith had also accused me of being naive, an adjective which I do believe John has asked posters not to direct at fellow posters.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 07:28:45 AM
My own experience of Glaswegians is that they are very kind.

Many are very kind but not all!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 07:48:08 AM
If it is a certainty that innocent parents never wash their missing child’s dirty toy after two months then this is conclusive proof that they are guilty.  Why then have they not been charged and found guilty?

Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to whether each child has an individual smell.
My three all smelled the same as far as I can remember.
A combination of the hair shampoo, soap and washing powder being used at the time.
Once they started buying their own favourite deodorants, after shave etc.then they did acquire their own individual smell.

Small children will smell of the hair products, body soaps and the products used in the laundry.
Some children  unfortunately do not smell of these but smell of unchanged clothes, unwashed hair and unwashed bodies.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 07:50:14 AM
My personal experience is with my late handicapped sister's soft toy and my non cleaning regime. If you have examples of innocent parents washing their missing children's favorite soft toys while their still missing I'll be more than willing to listen to them?
Sorry for your loss.  Did you carry this soft toy around with you for two months after her passing?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 07:53:59 AM
And her sticker book was torn to pieces. Surely it should have been treasured not destroyed?
On the one hand here we have you painting a picture of callous parents, destroying evidence, destroying things that were supposedly dear to Madeleine, erasing all trace of her, appearing cold and emotionless and on the other hand you accept that they were loving and grieving parents.  The two portrayals do not compute.  Make up your mind about these parents once and for all please.  Loving, grieving parents or cold heartless contemptible excuses for parents.  Which is it?  You really can’t have it both ways as and when it suits you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:06:36 AM
Sorry for your loss.  Did you carry this soft toy around with you for two months after her passing?
I'm not looking for nor do I need sympathy from anyone but I have had much more contact with the toy in 16 years than Kate had in two months. It will never go in the washing machine, never,  as long as I'm alive. Like I say, if you have examples of grieving parents washing their missing children's soft toys while they are still missing I will be more than willing to consider them. It simply does not happen. It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 08:11:14 AM
I'm not looking for nor do I need sympathy from anyone but I have had much more contact with the toy in 16 years than Kate had in two months. It will never go in the washing machine, never,  as long as I'm alive. Like I say, if you have examples of grieving parents washing their missing children's soft toys while they are still missing I will be more than willing to consider them. It simply does not happen. It really is that simple.

your claim has little or no basis in reality...everyone is diferent...but its probably one of the best pieces of evidence sceptics have....why dont you add...not answerring te 48 quetions...going jogging...smiling...its a bit pathetic rally
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:13:57 AM
If it is a certainty that innocent parents never wash their missing child’s dirty toy after two months then this is conclusive proof that they are guilty.  Why then have they not been charged and found guilty?
I can quite understand why the courts would reject it as evidence, but if you ever come across proof that my East End of Glasgow human intuition is proved to be wrong, you be sure to let me know. I'll repeat it as many times as you like, it makes no difference to me, innocent parents do not wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. Especially after just around the time they learn a cadaver dog is on the way  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:18:17 AM
I can quite understand why the courts would reject it as evidence, but if you ever come across proof that my East End of Glasgow human intuition is proved to be wrong, you be sure to let me know. I'll repeat it as many times as you like, it makes no difference to me, innocent parents do not wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. Especially after just around the time they learn a cadaver dog is on the way  8(0(*
Why do you think the courts would reject it as evidence then?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 08:21:55 AM
I can quite understand why the courts would reject it as evidence, but if you ever come across proof that my East End of Glasgow human intuition is proved to be wrong, you be sure to let me know. I'll repeat it as many times as you like, it makes no difference to me, innocent parents do not wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. Especially after just around the time they learn a cadaver dog is on the way  8(0(*

Does this human intuition only exist in the East End of Glasgow or does it extend to other parts of Glasgow?
Does everyone from the East End of Glasgow possess such human intuition?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
your claim has little or no basis in reality...everyone is diferent...but its probably one of the best pieces of evidence sceptics have....why dont you add...not answerring te 48 quetions...going jogging...smiling...its a bit pathetic rally
I have no problem whatsoever accepting the fact that my claim has no basis in a court room. No problem at all. And if that fact opens my claim up to ridicule, so be it, it doesn't worry me in the slightest. But you be sure to let me know when my claim is proved wrong. The case is still being investigated, so you have a chance.
But that's never going to happen... and it's not going to happen because innocent parents simply do not wash their missing children's soft toys when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. I'll add imo if it's ever proved wrong, not before.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:22:28 AM
Out of interest how do we know that Kate washed Cuddle Cat?  Did she admit this under police interrogation or did she divulge this information of her volition?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:23:18 AM
Out of interest how do we know that Kate washed Cuddle Cat?  Did she admit this under police interrogation or did she divulge this information of her volition?
No comment.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:24:43 AM
I have no problem whatsoever accepting the fact that my claim has no basis in a court room. No problem at all. And if that fact opens my claim up to ridicule, so be it, it doesn't worry me in the slightest. But you be sure to let me know when my claim is proved wrong. The case is still being investigated, so you have a chance.
But that's never going to happen... and it's not going to happen because innocent parents simply do not wash their missing children's soft toys when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. I'll add imo if it's ever proved wrong, not before.
I don’t think this claim of yours has ever been subjected to thorough investigation, ie that innocent parents never wash their missing children’s personal effects.  You have constructed an unchallengeable argument though one which you freely admit has no worth whatsoever in determing guilt or innocence.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:25:08 AM
No comment.
Is that because you don’t know or don’t want to say?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 08:29:00 AM
I can quite understand why the courts would reject it as evidence, but if you ever come across proof that my East End of Glasgow human intuition is proved to be wrong, you be sure to let me know. I'll repeat it as many times as you like, it makes no difference to me, innocent parents do not wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. Especially after just around the time they learn a cadaver dog is on the way  8(0(*

Could we have a few In My Opinions, please.  Otherwise I shall be forced to add them myself, which I don't like doing.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:32:32 AM
Does this human intuition only exist in the East End of Glasgow or does it extend to other parts of Glasgow?
Does everyone from the East End of Glasgow possess such human intuition?
It certainly differs from that I witness on here. You think innocent parents do wash their missing child's favorite soft toys when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way do you? You'll not find that kind of human intuition in the East End of Glasgow.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:35:54 AM
Could we have a few In My Opinions, please.  Otherwise I shall be forced to add them myself, which I don't like doing.

Thanks in advance.
Can you give me any other examples of innocent parents washing their children's favorite soft toy when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. That would prove it's an opinion and not a fact. If you feel like adding imo that's fine with me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 08:40:50 AM
Can you give me any other examples of innocent parents washing their children's favorite soft toy when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. That would prove it's an opinion and not a fact. If you feel like adding imo that's fine with me.

Your request is ridiculous.

Persisting in stating opinion as fact will ultimately result in warning point.  And I don't like doing that either.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 08:42:35 AM
Can you give me any other examples of innocent parents washing their children's favorite soft toy when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. That would prove it's an opinion and not a fact. If you feel like adding imo that's fine with me.

Could you use your remarkable East End of Glasgow human intuition to respond to my post # 532.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:50:52 AM
I don’t think this claim of yours has ever been subjected to thorough investigation, ie that innocent parents never wash their missing children’s personal effects.  You have constructed an unchallengeable argument though one which you freely admit has no worth whatsoever in determing guilt or innocence.
I admitted no such thing, it has enormous worth to me. And it can be challenged OK, the case is being investigated, an abduction apparently. If an alive Madeleine McCann turns up or a nasty old abductor is convicted then that would prove that the missing child's mother washed her missing daughter's soft toy when she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way because it was 'filthy with suntan lotion'.
You've no other demonstrable examples of similar behavior from the parents of a missing child? Isn't that a surprise.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:56:30 AM
Your request is ridiculous.

Persisting in stating opinion as fact will ultimately result in warning point.  And I don't like doing that either.
I'm not prepared to alter my position on this subject without examples, nor do I have any to desire to land a warning, which leaves me with no alternative other than to say.  &^&*%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 09:14:59 AM
I'm not prepared to alter my position on this subject without examples, nor do I have any to desire to land a warning, which leaves me with no alternative other than to say.  &^&*%

Such a pity.  You do have things to offer, so long as you obey Forum Rules.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2019, 09:23:58 AM
I've no idea what he was told but he did say he didn't share their optimism at the time. Possibly Kate & Gerry mistakenly thought PJ had some DNA from a suspect & wanted to match it to specific items in the McCanns' possession - as you would if you were innocent & very little else was being done to find Madeleine.
I wonder why the villa was searched by Eddie before Casa Liliana was?

The dogs alerted in 5A on 31st July. As a result search warrants were issued for the McCann villa and car. The villa search then followed on 2nd August.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2019, 09:35:52 AM
I admitted no such thing, it has enormous worth to me. And it can be challenged OK, the case is being investigated, an abduction apparently. If an alive Madeleine McCann turns up or a nasty old abductor is convicted then that would prove that the missing child's mother washed her missing daughter's soft toy when she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way because it was 'filthy with suntan lotion'.
You've no other demonstrable examples of similar behavior from the parents of a missing child? Isn't that a surprise.
In my opinion it is irresponsible not to wash or otherwise clean children's toys and cuddle blankets on a regular basis.

It is the norm for responsible parents of my mother's generation ... my generation ... my daughter's generation ... to have raised our children in as healthy an environment as possible.  Cleanliness is the key to that.
Snip
...  a great rule of thumb is to wash them as often as you wash your children's bedding at home which is probably once every week or two.
https://www.romper.com/p/how-often-should-you-wash-your-childs-lovey-it-has-to-be-done-sorry-7788891


Madeleine had had her soft toy for nearly four years ... I think it is inconceivable it wasn't washed regularly during that time.

I also think this is one of the more ridiculous criticisms put about to castigate Kate ... Amelie has also been pictured cuddling Madeleine's soft toy ... was her safety and well being to be jeopardised by exposure to germs from dirty soft toys?

You've obviously made yourself the judge of that already so please accept my question as a rhetorical one.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 10:13:38 AM
I can quite understand why the courts would reject it as evidence, but if you ever come across proof that my East End of Glasgow human intuition is proved to be wrong, you be sure to let me know. I'll repeat it as many times as you like, it makes no difference to me, innocent parents do not wash their missing child's favorite soft toys. Especially after just around the time they learn a cadaver dog is on the way  8(0(*
Cuddle Cat wasn't washed again that day.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 29, 2019, 10:30:39 AM
Can you give me any other examples of innocent parents washing their children's favorite soft toy when they learn a cadaver dog is on the way. That would prove it's an opinion and not a fact. If you feel like adding imo that's fine with me.

Surely it was remiss of the police not to hold for forensic testing cuddlecat and anything else which the missing child and possibly an intruder may have come into contact with if it was an abduction?  I can't believe the soft toy wasn't immediately taken away.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2019, 10:58:05 AM
Surely it was remiss of the police not to hold for forensic testing cuddlecat and anything else which the missing child and possibly an intruder may have come into contact with if it was an abduction?  I can't believe the soft toy wasn't immediately taken away.

I think it was remiss of them (particularly to allow the cleaners in but I think it might have been a reflection of the time.

Who had ever heard of "the scent of death" in 2007? and anything else you couldn't actually see.

The Portuguese forensic team did pick up plenty of hair as well as what turned out to be a saliva stain on the bedding so they were thorough enough with anything visible.
If I remember correctly, interesting that saliva gave the same reading as another bodily fluid but nothing (eg blood) was seen allowing samples to be taken anywhere else in the apartment.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 29, 2019, 11:39:37 AM
Does this human intuition only exist in the East End of Glasgow or does it extend to other parts of Glasgow?
Does everyone from the East End of Glasgow possess such human intuition?

It has taken some time to reveal that there is a surprisingly high proportion of posters on this forum who live in Scotland, even in or around the Glasgow area.

I do hope that clan warfare is not about to start.   &%54%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:29:12 PM
In my opinion it is irresponsible not to wash or otherwise clean children's toys and cuddle blankets on a regular basis.

It is the norm for responsible parents of my mother's generation ... my generation ... my daughter's generation ... to have raised our children in as healthy an environment as possible.  Cleanliness is the key to that.
Snip
...  a great rule of thumb is to wash them as often as you wash your children's bedding at home which is probably once every week or two.
https://www.romper.com/p/how-often-should-you-wash-your-childs-lovey-it-has-to-be-done-sorry-7788891


Madeleine had had her soft toy for nearly four years ... I think it is inconceivable it wasn't washed regularly during that time.

I also think this is one of the more ridiculous criticisms put about to castigate Kate ... Amelie has also been pictured cuddling Madeleine's soft toy ... was her safety and well being to be jeopardised by exposure to germs from dirty soft toys?

You've obviously made yourself the judge of that already so please accept my question as a rhetorical one.
I couldn't agree more that the toy would have been washed over time, I have children myself who had soft toys they were very attached to. But the very idea that I would ever have washed any of those toys 70 days after they went missing at a time I was informed that a cadaver dog was on the way is absolutely  ridiculous. Unless I was trying to hide something, there is no other possible reason that would lead me to wash it. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. I know myself well enough to post that fact. No opinion involved there. I do not believe for a second that innocent parents wash their missing daughter's favorite soft toy 70 days after she goes missing, sun tan lotion or no sun tan lotion. The fact is, that's the way I view it.

Whatever way you and the others view the washing of the toy is your business. The reply's my view on the toy are receiving sounds like I've hit a nerve.
8((()*/
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 12:39:01 PM
I couldn't agree more that the toy would have been washed over time, I have children myself who had soft toys they were very attached to. But the very idea that I would ever have washed any of those toys 70 days after they went missing at a time I was informed that a cadaver dog was on the way is absolutely  ridiculous. Unless I was trying to hide something, there is no other possible reason that would lead me to wash it. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. I know myself well enough to post that fact. No opinion involved there. I do not believe for a second that innocent parents wash their missing daughter's favorite soft toy 70 days after she goes missing, sun tan lotion or no sun tan lotion. The fact is, that's the way I view it.

Whatever way you and the others view the washing of the toy is your business. The reply's my view on the toy are receiving sounds like I've hit a nerve.
8((()*/

You haven't hit any nerve afaiac... You are, simply posting your opinion that you think is a fact... It may apply to you but everyones different... I don't see it it as any indication of guilt.. Just as not answering the 48 questions... Going jogging... Smiling... Is not an indication of guilt
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:41:23 PM
It has taken some time to reveal that there is a surprisingly high proportion of posters on this forum who live in Scotland, even in or around the Glasgow area.

I do hope that clan warfare is not about to start.   &%54%
Could you do a poll perhaps to find out how many of these posters from the Glasgow area would wash their missing child's favorite soft toy after 70 days? The results would maybe support my point.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:43:54 PM
You haven't hit any nerve afaiac... You are, simply posting your opinion that you think is a fact... It may apply to you but everyones different... I don't see it it as any indication of guilt.. Just as not answering the 48 questions... Going jogging... Smiling... Is not an indication of guilt
I have never seen the jogging as an indication of anything other than a coping mechanism for those dealing with trauma. You're putting words in my mouth there little fella.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 12:47:56 PM
I have never seen the jogging as an indication of anything other than a coping mechanism for those dealing with trauma. You're putting words in my mouth there little fella.

I'm not putting any words in your mouth I'm commenting on your logic... Taking the washing of the toy as an indication of guilt is pretty poor logic.. Imo
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
I'm not putting any words in your mouth I'm commenting on your logic... Taking the washing of the toy as an indication of guilt is pretty poor logic.. Imo
Maybe so but when you can prove my logic is poor then your opinion will become a fact.
I'm sticking with it. I've seen nothing on here to make me question it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
Surely it was remiss of the police not to hold for forensic testing cuddlecat and anything else which the missing child and possibly an intruder may have come into contact with if it was an abduction?  I can't believe the soft toy wasn't immediately taken away.
I don't understand what that has to do with parents of a missing child washing their daughter's favorite soft  toy as soon as they find out a cadaver dog is on the way. I know there are those who claim they find that perfectly normal parental behavior, are you in the group that share that view? I agree in hindsight it was perhaps a mistake not to test the toy but every other bit of evidence had been tampered with, what is it that makes you believe the toy would have been any different?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 01:11:19 PM
Maybe so but when you can prove my logic is poor then your opinion will become a fact.
I'm sticking with it. I've seen nothing on here to make me question it.

No it's opinion.. Just like your posts, are your opinion
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 01:17:03 PM
No it's opinion.. Just like your posts, are your opinion
Deleted 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 01:21:13 PM
Make your mind up. Is it my logic that's poor iyo opinion or not?
It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way. I've even heard the excuse on here that the toy was washed because it was posing a health hazard. When was the last time anyone you know of was admitted to hospital because of a unwashed soft toy.?  @)(++(*

Your logic is poor because you believe something is true based on the inabilty of others to prove you wrong... That's what's, called a celestial teapot argument... And it's poor logic
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 01:25:59 PM
Your logic is poor because you believe something is true based on the inabilty of others to prove you wrong... That's what's, called a celestial teapot argument... And it's poor logic
The way I see it, my logic about the toy stands up quite well because despite repeated requests for demonstrable examples of similar parental behavior, no one has produced a single demonstrable example.
Scotland Yard have the ability to prove my logic wrong, it remains to be seen if they will.  8(0(*
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 01:27:55 PM
The way I see it, my logic about the toy stands up quite well because despite repeated requests for demonstrable examples of similar parental behavior, no one has produced a single demonstrable example.
Scotland Yard have the ability to prove my logic wrong, it remains to be seen if they will.  8(0(*
 

You think your logic stands up well... That's your opinion... I don't... That's my opinion
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 29, 2019, 01:29:29 PM
Could you do a poll perhaps to find out how many of these posters from the Glasgow area would wash their missing child's favorite soft toy after 70 days? The results would maybe support my point.

I discussed your point with my beloved about an hour ago.  It was about our neighbours, Karen and Don, and it is definitely not a missing child case.

What happened was simple, but tragic.  Don was diagnosed with cancer, and passed away very shortly afterwards.  Karen kept his clothes and photos on display to remind her of him.  She fell into depression.  It was only when she got rid of, or packed away, every memento of Don that Karen was able to get on with her own life again.

She was remarried, and the last we heard from her, a long time ago, was was that she and her new husband had moved to Hawaii.

In direct response to your proposition, I put it to my beloved.  She was born in Edinburgh, but insists she is Italian.  She was 50-50 on whether to wash Cuddle Cat or not.

My dog's toys and bedding get washed once per week.  We don't have young children with us 24/7, so it's not to protect them or us.  Here, we look after our dogs.

Did the McCanns have a dog?    *%87
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 01:31:48 PM
I discussed your point with my beloved about an hour ago.  It was about our neighbours, Karen and Don, and it is definitely not a missing child case.

What happened was simple, but tragic.  Don was diagnosed with cancer, and passed away very shortly afterwards.  Karen kept his clothes and photos on display to remind her of him.  She fell into depression.  It was only when she got rid of, or packed away, every memento of Don that Karen was able to get on with her own life again.

She was remarried, and the last we heard from her, a long time ago, was was that she and her new husband had moved to Hawaii.

In direct response to your proposition, I put it to my beloved.  She was born in Edinburgh, but insists she is Italian.  She was 50-50 on whether to wash Cuddle Cat or not.

My dog's toys and bedding get washed once per week.  We don't have young children with us 24/7, so it's not to protect them or us.  Here, we look after our dogs.

Did the McCanns have a dog?    *%87
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2019, 01:38:35 PM
Surely it was remiss of the police not to hold for forensic testing cuddlecat and anything else which the missing child and possibly an intruder may have come into contact with if it was an abduction?  I can't believe the soft toy wasn't immediately taken away.

The first PJ officer's photos showed CC and the pink blanket on the bed. The blanket was given to the dog handlers at around 2.30 am on 4th. I assume that CC was taken by the McCanns when they left the apartment because it was no longer on the bed when the next forensic team took their photos on the afternoon of 4th. So the PJ had a very small window of opportunity to take CC.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:02:23 PM
You think your logic stands up well... That's your opinion... I don't... That's my opinion
It stands up even better if one chooses to consider the facts.
"Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX

Oh dearie dearie me!
You might well view my logic as weak, but it's logic that Scotland Yard will have to prove wrong nevertheless.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 02:04:32 PM
Make your mind up. Is it my logic that's poor iyo opinion or not?
It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way. I've even heard the excuse on here that the toy was washed because it was posing a health hazard. When was the last time anyone you know of was admitted to hospital because of a unwashed soft toy.?  @)(++(*

A quick Google search of "Can  soft toys carry any diseases" has quite dreadful statistics of the illnesses which can be spread by unwashed soft toys.
Certainly when my grandchildren were young, their mums frequently washed their soft toys.
I suppose it depends on the differing standards of hygiene that are practised..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
It stands up even better if one chooses to consider the facts.
"Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX

Oh dearie dearie me!
You might well view my logic as weak, but it's logic that Scotland Yard will have to prove wrong nevertheless.

I think your logic is getting worse.... SY won't be interested in your logic
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:14:11 PM
A quick Google search of "Can  soft toys carry any diseases" has quite dreadful statistics of the illnesses which can be spread by unwashed soft toys.
Certainly when my grandchildren were young, their mums frequently washed their soft toys.
I suppose it depends on the differing standards of hygiene that are practised..
I expect children's soft toys are being washed as we speak up and down the country but I refuse point blank to accept that a single one of those will belong to a missing child. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 29, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
I expect children's soft toys are being washed as we speak up and down the country but I refuse point blank to accept that a single one of those will belong to a missing child.

And no doubt that particular missing chld had many other soft toys, the smell of which would not have become an unfamiliar dirty smell.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
It stands up even better if one chooses to consider the facts.
"Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX

Oh dearie dearie me!
You might well view my logic as weak, but it's logic that Scotland Yard will have to prove wrong nevertheless.

Why would Scotland Yard have to prove you wrong?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:22:20 PM
Why would Scotland Yard have to prove you wrong?
Can you think of another way I will be proven wrong?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 02:25:34 PM
Can you think of another way it will be proven wrong?

The question is why does anyone have to prove you wrong
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:28:49 PM
The question is why does anyone have to prove you wrong
The question can be that if you like, but the one the public are paying to answer is what happened to Madeleine McCann? Only by answering that will there be any chance of proving me wrong - simples.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 02:35:18 PM
The question can be that if you like, but the one the public are paying to answer is what happened to Madeleine McCann? Only by answering that will there be any chance of proving me wrong - simples.  8(0(*

I don't think anyones interested in proving you wrong..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:45:30 PM
I don't think anyones interested in proving you wrong..
Interested? Who asked anyone to be interested in proving me anything?
I didn't ask anyone to be interested in anything. You seem to have taken an interest all by yourself.  ^*&&
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 29, 2019, 02:48:47 PM
Interested? Who asked anyone to be interested in proving me anything?
I didn't ask anyone to be interested in anything. You seem to have taken an interest all by yourself.  ^*&&
No... Im just here for the craic...I enjoy an argument
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
No... Im just here for the craic...I enjoy an argument
So are we to take it your interested in arguing with people? Am I the choosen one on this occasion?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 03:08:26 PM
Right back to the podcasts
Mark Saunokonoko asks the two questions; Why did the McCanns withhold the efits of Madeleine's possible abductor for almost a year and why did the McCanns and the police withhold them for a further four years?
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 04:24:03 PM
Right back to the podcasts
Mark Saunokonoko asks the two questions; Why did the McCanns withhold the efits of Madeleine's possible abductor for almost a year and why did the McCanns and the police withhold them for a further four years?
 

Once upon a time, according to a source......the fund wanted to continue to pursue information about the man seen by Tanner, and it would have been too expensive to investigate both sightings in full — so the Smith E-Fits were not publicised.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 04:47:14 PM
Once upon a time, according to a source......the fund wanted to continue to pursue information about the man seen by Tanner, and it would have been too expensive to investigate both sightings in full — so the Smith E-Fits were not publicised.
Did this source happen to provide any information about where they got the funds to promote the Posh Spice lookalike E-Fit.? They've always got their priorities all wrong IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 05:03:53 PM
Did this source happen to provide any information about where they got the funds to promote the Posh Spice lookalike E-Fit.? They've always got their priorities all wrong IMO.

Sorry, I can't help you with that. But I'd imagine that lawyers & spokesmen, although expensive, should always take  priority for innocent parents of abducted children.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 05:07:41 PM
Make your mind up. Is it my logic that's poor iyo opinion or not?
It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way. I've even heard the excuse on here that the toy was washed because it was posing a health hazard. When was the last time anyone you know of was admitted to hospital because of a unwashed soft toy.?  @)(++(*
Your post is factually incorrect.  Repeat that claim again and your post will be deleted.  Prove your claim "It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way"
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 29, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
Your post is factually incorrect.  Repeat that claim again and your post will be deleted.  Prove your claim "It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way"

You are absolutely correct, Rob.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 05:35:48 PM
I admitted no such thing, it has enormous worth to me. And it can be challenged OK, the case is being investigated, an abduction apparently. If an alive Madeleine McCann turns up or a nasty old abductor is convicted then that would prove that the missing child's mother washed her missing daughter's soft toy when she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way because it was 'filthy with suntan lotion'.
You've no other demonstrable examples of similar behavior from the parents of a missing child? Isn't that a surprise.
yes you did.  You said:
“I have no problem whatsoever accepting the fact that my claim has no basis in a court room”
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 05:58:10 PM
I couldn't agree more that the toy would have been washed over time, I have children myself who had soft toys they were very attached to. But the very idea that I would ever have washed any of those toys 70 days after they went missing at a time I was informed that a cadaver dog was on the way is absolutely  ridiculous. Unless I was trying to hide something, there is no other possible reason that would lead me to wash it. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. I know myself well enough to post that fact. No opinion involved there. I do not believe for a second that innocent parents wash their missing daughter's favorite soft toy 70 days after she goes missing, sun tan lotion or no sun tan lotion. The fact is, that's the way I view it.

Whatever way you and the others view the washing of the toy is your business. The reply's my view on the toy are receiving sounds like I've hit a nerve.
8((()*/
What if the soft toy stank of shit, would you still not wash it?  What if one of your other kids vomited on it, would you still  not wash it?  What if it got slobbered on by the dog, or covered in cat hairs that made you sneeze, would you still not wash it?  According to you there is no possible reason for you to wash it so one must assume that in the circumstances I have described you would still not wash the soft toy.  This therefore proves that you must be the most innocent parent that ever lived!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 06:02:44 PM
I don't understand what that has to do with parents of a missing child washing their daughter's favorite soft  toy as soon as they find out a cadaver dog is on the way. I know there are those who claim they find that perfectly normal parental behavior, are you in the group that share that view? I agree in hindsight it was perhaps a mistake not to test the toy but every other bit of evidence had been tampered with, what is it that makes you believe the toy would have been any different?
Could we have a cite please for washing the soft toy as soon as they find out a cadaver dog was on the way please?  I assume this is in the files?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 06:44:06 PM
Your post is factually incorrect.  Repeat that claim again and your post will be deleted.  Prove your claim "It's a fact the parents of a missing child popped their daughter's favorite soft toy into the washing machine when they learned a cadaver dog was on the way"
Unless you know what Gerry was talking to Stuart Prior about between July 3rd and July 19th you have no idea if my post is factually correct or not. And do you know what they were talking about? If you want to delete my post, you're too late, I done it for you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 07:17:39 PM
Unless you know what Gerry was talking to Stuart Prior about between July 3rd and July 19th you have no idea if my post is factually correct or not. And do you know what they were talking about? If you want to delete my post, you're too late, I done it for you.
As you suggest it is possible to be informed of planned use of cadaver dogs.  I don't know what was discussed.

From memory Kate admits to washing Cuddle Cat 12 days  prior to the day the PJ examine the villa (was that 4th August?)
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 07:23:29 PM
As you suggest it is possible to be informed of planned use of cadaver dogs.  I don't know what was discussed.

From memory Kate admits to washing Cuddle Cat 12 days  prior to the day the PJ examine the villa (was that 4th August?)
I wonder why she freely admitted that seeing as how it’s virtually cast iron proof of guilt (according to Cheeky).
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 07:27:07 PM
As you suggest it is possible to be informed of planned use of cadaver dogs.  I don't know what was discussed.

From memory Kate admits to washing Cuddle Cat 12 days  prior to the day the PJ examine the villa (was that 4th August?)
You don't know what Gerry and Stuart Prior discussed then? Which means you don't know if my statement was factually incorrect. Fair enough. I deleted anyway.

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to rely on a former suspect who has never been cleared of involvement in her daughter's disappearance for reliable information? You'll forgive me if I give that idea a miss.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 07:29:58 PM
You don't know what Gerry and Stuart Prior discussed then? Which means you don't know if my statement was factually incorrect. Fair enough. I deleted anyway.

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to rely on a former suspect who has never been cleared of involvement in her daughter's disappearance for reliable information? You'll forgive me if I give that idea a miss.
You’re relying on her words regarding washing cuddlecat, any reason for that?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 07:42:15 PM
You’re relying on her words regarding washing cuddlecat, any reason for that?
The reason for that imo, is the good old 'it's was one of these tricky situations where we didn't seem to have a choice'. Remember that old chestnut? It would have looked even more suspicious if the cameras picked up it had been washed and they had said nothing imo. But because it had sun tan lotion on it poor old Kate decided to wash every last trace of her abducted daughter from her favorite soft toy, because.... wait for it... it had got sun tan lotion on it.

I'm not buying it. It's that simple. I'll leave you and the whooshing curtain theory to prove me wrong.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 07:57:36 PM
You don't know what Gerry and Stuart Prior discussed then? Which means you don't know if my statement was factually incorrect. Fair enough. I deleted anyway.

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to rely on a former suspect who has never been cleared of involvement in her daughter's disappearance for reliable information? You'll forgive me if I give that idea a miss.
But isn't the more serious issue in your statement is that the British police were alerting the McCanns to lines of inquiry that the PJ were about to do?
Do you know what was discussed between Stuart Prior and the McCanns?

The Dates of the washing did not clash with the dates you used.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:01:02 PM
But isn't the more serious issue in your statement is that the British police were alerting the McCanns to lines of inquiry that the PJ were about to do?
Do you know what was discussed between Stuart Prior and the McCanns?

The Dates of the washing did not clash with the dates you used.
What dates did I use?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:01:59 PM
The reason for that imo, is the good old 'it's was one of these tricky situations where we didn't seem to have a choice'. Remember that old chestnut? It would have looked even more suspicious if the cameras picked up it had been washed and they had said nothing imo. But because it had sun tan lotion on it poor old Kate decided to wash every last trace of her abducted daughter from her favorite soft toy, because.... wait for it... it had got sun tan lotion on it.

I'm not buying it. It's that simple. I'll leave you and the whooshing curtain theory to prove me wrong.  8(0(*
Your last sentence is pure goading as I have repeatedly asked you to tell me what you mean by it and you refuse to say.  Your first point is ludicrous IMO.  You think the cameras would be able to discern Cuddlecat had been washed?  Then rather than tell the world she’d wash it, she could have covered it in suntan lotion and snot and dirt after washing it, problem solved and no one would have been any the wiser.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 08:04:19 PM
You don't know what Gerry and Stuart Prior discussed then? Which means you don't know if my statement was factually incorrect. Fair enough. I deleted anyway.

Do you seriously think it's a good idea to rely on a former suspect who has never been cleared of involvement in her daughter's disappearance for reliable information? You'll forgive me if I give that idea a miss.
I understood that you meant Kate washed Cuddle Cat that day of the search.  I understand there were clothes in the washing machine that day.  But finding clothes in a washing machine is rather common in fact.

But isn't the more serious issue in your statement is that the British police were alerting the McCanns to lines of inquiry that the PJ were about to do?
Do you know what was discussed between Stuart Prior and the McCanns?

The Dates of the washing did not clash with the dates you used.
"Unless you know what Gerry was talking to Stuart Prior about between July 3rd and July 19th"   were the dates you used.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 08:12:50 PM
I was looking through some old reports about Cuddle Cat, as I seem to remember a claim that CC had been placed out of reach, this being one reason Kate knew it was an abduction & Maddie hadn't left the bed of her own volition...

I found this and it made me chuckle...

By Lori Campbell in Praia da Luz
Published: 12/08/2007
 
Missing Madeleine McCann's favourite pink Cuddle Cat toy was taken from her arms as she slept and placed beyond her reach by her kidnapper. That is why police are certain Madeleine was snatched while she was asleep - and was NOT killed or injured in the holiday apartment.
 
When her mum Kate, 38, tucked Madeleine into bed, the four-year-old was cuddling the toy - but it was later found placed on a ledge that Madeleine could not have reached.
 
There is also further "concrete evidence" that Madeleine was still ALIVE when she left the holiday apartment. Her kidnapper had a window of just five minutes to strike - from when dad Gerry last checked on the children until family friend Jane Tanner saw a man carrying away a child she is sure was Madeleine wrapped in a blanket.

.....

Concrete evidence  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:13:47 PM
Your last sentence is pure goading as I have repeatedly asked you to tell me what you mean by it and you refuse to say.  Your first point is ludicrous IMO.  You think the cameras would be able to discern Cuddlecat had been washed?  Then rather than tell the world she’d wash it, she could have covered it in suntan lotion and snot and dirt after washing it, problem solved and no one would have been any the wiser.
You know what I think, it's clearly explained above, if you don't like it that's just too bad imo. My opinion will never change unless the first 90 seconds of this gets verified in a court of law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPS0eyLID1A&t=62s
That's ludicrous imo. How you view it, is entirely up to you. It's a free country.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:15:39 PM
I understood that you meant Kate washed Cuddle Cat that day of the search.  I understand there were clothes in the washing machine that day.  But finding clothes in a washing machine is rather common in fact.
"Unless you know what Gerry was talking to Stuart Prior about between July 3rd and July 19th"   were the dates you used.
What date did Kate wash the toy?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 08:17:56 PM
You know what I think, it's clearly explained above, if you don't like it that's just too bad imo. My opinion will never change unless the first 90 seconds of this gets verified in a court of law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPS0eyLID1A&t=335s
That's ludicrous imo. How you view it, is entirely up to you. It's a free country.
Did you post the correct link?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 08:21:38 PM
What date did Kate wash the toy?
As I said from memory 12 days before the villa was examined.  So some time after 19th July.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 08:23:51 PM


Kate washed the Cuddle Cat five days after Madeleine went missing saying it was smeared with sand and sun cream.

Gerry's sister Philomena said it was cleaned again two months ago because it was filthy after being carried around.

A former Scotland Yard detective said: "It's the last thing I'd expect a mother who is devastated at losing her child to do."

*Sunday Mirror report, 13 September 2007
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:25:31 PM
As I said from memory 12 days before the villa was examined.  So some time after 19th July.
If you had read the thread you would have noticed Misty posted Kate's diary for the 12th July were she wrote she washed it, so I'd suggest before you go warning others about the factual accuracy of their comments, you check the factual accuracy of your own. I deleted mine btw.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 08:27:14 PM


Jon Corner godfather of one of the McCanns children said ‘The Cuddle Cat was reeking with Madeleines DNA . That easily explains why DNA has been found in the hire car and on clothing that Kate bought after Madeleine disappeared’.

*Telegraph Sept 8th 2007
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:31:32 PM
You know what I think, it's clearly explained above, if you don't like it that's just too bad imo. My opinion will never change unless the first 90 seconds of this gets verified in a court of law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPS0eyLID1A&t=62s
That's ludicrous imo. How you view it, is entirely up to you. It's a free country.
”My opinion will never change”.  Exactly. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 29, 2019, 08:32:17 PM

Jon Corner godfather of one of the McCanns children said ‘The Cuddle Cat was reeking with Madeleines DNA . That easily explains why DNA has been found in the hire car and on clothing that Kate bought after Madeleine disappeared’.

*Telegraph Sept 8th 2007

This is Jon Corner, well respected and renowned forensic scientist ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 29, 2019, 08:33:15 PM
If you had read the thread you would have noticed Misty posted Kate's diary for the 12th July were she wrote she washed it, so I'd suggest before you go warning others about the factual accuracy of their comments, you check the factual accuracy of your own. I deleted mine btw.
Maybe that is where the number "12" comes into my memory.  It could be the 12th July  rather than 12 days before the search at the villa.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:36:00 PM
”My opinion will never change”.  Exactly.
Never is a long time in the Madeleine McCann affair, but good for you and your opinion.  8((()*/
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:36:28 PM
Never is a long time in the Madeleine McCann affair, but good for you and your opinion.  8((()*/
I was quoting you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:38:12 PM
I was quoting you.
You weren't quoting me. Go read it again.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 08:40:02 PM
One of my favourite excuses, from unnamed sources, was Kate coming into contact with several dead bodies during her work as a G.P  @)(++(*


A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html
.....

The family GP has insisted she came into contact with at least SIX dead bodies before going on holiday with her husband and three children.

The Sun 05 September 2008
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 08:43:17 PM
You weren't quoting me. Go read it again.
I was quoting you, your opinion will never change unless your impossible demands are met, ergo your opinion will never change.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 08:48:36 PM
I was quoting you, your opinion will never change unless your impossible demands are met, ergo your opinion will never change.
Oh I see, it's changed from "my opinion will never change" to "my opinion will never change unless." Not quite the same thing, but you know that.
After watching Kate's performance you think it would be "impossible" to verify that account of events in a court of law. I think there are a large number of people who would agree with that assessment... I didn't think you'd be one.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 09:05:51 PM
Oh I see, it's changed from "my opinion will never change" to "my opinion will never change unless." Not quite the same thing, but you know that.
After watching Kate's performance you think it would be "impossible" to verify that account of events in a court of law. I think there are a large number of people who would agree with that assessment... I didn't think you'd be one.  8(0(*
Why is that?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 09:13:49 PM
Why is that?
I just never had you down as one for viewing Kate's story as being impossible to ever verify. But there you go, you think my demands are impossible. I'd have thought had an abductor left the window open and the curtains whooshing, it would have been possible to verify, but you reckon it's impossible.
Ah well! What can I say that you,ve not said already?  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 10:03:25 PM
I just never had you down as one for viewing Kate's story as being impossible to ever verify. But there you go, you think my demands are impossible. I'd have thought had an abductor left the window open and the curtains whooshing, it would have been possible to verify, but you reckon it's impossible.
Ah well! What can I say that you,ve not said already?  8(0(*
You seem somewhat determined to include the phrase “whooshing curtains “ in as many of your posts to me as you possibly can.  Is there a reason for that?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 29, 2019, 10:15:15 PM
One of my favourite excuses, from unnamed sources, was Kate coming into contact with several dead bodies during her work as a G.P  @)(++(*


A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html
.....

The family GP has insisted she came into contact with at least SIX dead bodies before going on holiday with her husband and three children.

The Sun 05 September 2008

I think that unnamed source is currently on trial in Cascais for kidnapping, armed robbery, illegal computer access & various other offences.....
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 10:16:32 PM
You seem somewhat determined to include the phrase “whooshing curtains “ in as many of your posts to me as you possibly can.  Is there a reason for that?
Not particularly and it won't only be you to whom I use the term because imo that's what's the McCanns have been promoting for the last 12 years, a whooshing curtain theory. A theory that I don't view as very realistic IMHO, given the facts. But if it really did occur, I hold the opinion that it must be possible to prove it. No theory is ever accepted without overwhelming evidence to support it. If the McCanns and their very expensive team expect people to treat their theory any differently, then they are not the sharpest tools in the box imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 29, 2019, 10:18:00 PM
I think that unnamed source is currently on trial in Cascais for kidnapping, armed robbery, illegal computer access & various other offences.....

It’s a wonder the parents didn’t employ him. He seems to have all the credentials to be one of their PIs.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 10:25:34 PM
Not particularly and it won't only be you to whom I use the term because imo that's what's the McCanns have been promoting for the last 12 years, a whooshing curtain theory. A theory that I don't view as very realistic IMHO, given the facts. But if it really did occur, I hold the opinion that it must be possible to prove it. No theory is ever accepted without overwhelming evidence to support it. If the McCanns and their very expensive team expect people to treat their theory any differently, then they are not the sharpest tools in the box imo.
For the third time of asking what is the whooshing curtain theory?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 10:28:46 PM
For the third time of asking what is the whooshing curtain theory?
For the first time, I'm refusing to tell you. I've already told you twice.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 10:30:28 PM
For the first time, I'm refusing to tell you. I've already told you twice.
kindly provide the post number then.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 29, 2019, 10:36:10 PM
kindly provide the post number then.
You think I'm trawling through the pages to get you post numbers for links I've already provided?  *%87#
No chance, I'm off to bed, do it yourself. Cobbler for me tomorrow.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 10:40:31 PM
You think I'm trawling through the pages to get you post numbers for links I've already provided?  *%87#
No chance, I'm off to bed, do it yourself. Cobbler for me tomorrow.

I’m not interested in links I just want you to explain what whooshing curtain theorists are and what the whooshing curtain theory is, because if you’re going to accuse me of being an advocate of this theory I do at least think I am owed some sort of explanation as to what t is I am supposedly advocating.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 10:53:11 PM

At a guess I'd say he means, no whooshing curtains = no abduction, at least not in the manner the McCann's insist on.


'Police investigations by British and Portuguese detectives are believed to be re-visiting the theory the three-year-old left their Algarve apartment of her own accord before she disappeared'


The British and Portuguese efforts to find out what happened to the toddler are being carried out separately - but the two are believed to have met to discuss the theory she woke up and wandered off.

A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before.

'A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney's Office in Portugal, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

'One of the lines of investigation that continues to be pursued is that the child could have walked out of the holiday flat herself.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 10:58:36 PM
At a guess I'd say he means, no whooshing curtains = no abduction, at least not in the manner the McCann's insist on.


'Police investigations by British and Portuguese detectives are believed to be re-visiting the theory the three-year-old left their Algarve apartment of her own accord before she disappeared'


The British and Portuguese efforts to find out what happened to the toddler are being carried out separately - but the two are believed to have met to discuss the theory she woke up and wandered off.

A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before.

'A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney's Office in Portugal, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

'One of the lines of investigation that continues to be pursued is that the child could have walked out of the holiday flat herself.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html
So a whooshing curtain theorist is the same as an abduction theorist?  Well why didn’t she just say that in the first place!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 10:59:22 PM
Woke & wandered should simply not be an option, if the police believe the McCann's were telling the truth about the open window & shutters.

I believe Cheeky Monkey subscribes to the type of crime unknown theory, as opposed to the whooshing curtains doctrine.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 11:01:29 PM
Woke & wandered should simply not be an option, if the police believe the McCann's were telling the truth about the open window & shutters.

I believe Cheeky Monkey subscribes to the type of crime unknown theory, as opposed to the whooshing curtains doctrine.
IMO a crime unknown theory is not a theory at all, simply a statement of fact.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 11:04:36 PM


I wasn't using the forum or following the news at the time of this publication.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html

I find it interesting that, if true, the police are open to casting doubt on the not suspects claims.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 11:09:38 PM

I wasn't using the forum or following the news at the time of this publication.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html

I find it interesting that, if true, the police are open to casting doubt on the not suspects claims.
Oh yeah, this was the news report that had some people on here so excited because they thought it meant something big was about to happen.  But then nothing did.   @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 11:13:31 PM
Oh yeah, this was the news report that had some people on here so excited because they thought it meant something big was about to happen.  But then nothing did.   @)(++(*

Nothing much is happening at all with SY, if the Portugal Resident is to be believed.

Grange aren't even answering the phone.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 11:15:43 PM
Nothing much is happening at all with SY, if the Portugal Resident is to be believed.

Grange aren't even answering the phone.
Not to trouble makers and trolls, no probably not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 11:18:24 PM
Not to trouble makers and trolls, no probably not.

Mark Unpronounceable is a trouble making troll?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 11:21:01 PM
Mark Unpronounceable is a trouble making troll?
Jill Havern is, IMO, Mark Thingy clearly has an agenda he is pushing too, sensationalist tripe for financial gain.  Does that make him worth the time of day as far as the police are concerned? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 11:25:23 PM
Jill Havern is, IMO, Mark Thingy clearly has an agenda he is pushing too, sensationalist tripe for financial gain.  Does that make him worth the time of day as far as the police are concerned?

I thought he was just relaying an offer from that DNA scientist chap to retest the DNA thingy stuff.
That doesn't seem very trollie to me.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 29, 2019, 11:43:44 PM
I thought he was just relaying an offer from that DNA scientist chap to retest the DNA thingy stuff.
That doesn't seem very trollie to me.

Ringing Grange & saying the e-fits are Gerry, that would be trolling, but also potentially true.
Why isn’t the DNA chappy able to make his own phone call to tbe Met?  After all he has apparently worked with them before.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 29, 2019, 11:49:19 PM
Why isn’t the DNA chappy able to make his own phone call to tbe Met?  After all he has apparently worked with them before.

I've no idea, maybe he has tried but he too got the answering machine. Who knows? Grange do I suppose. But they are busy doing something or other. All 4 of them.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 30, 2019, 12:27:55 AM


That's enough wummery for one night.

Nighty night all.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
Has anyone heard whether OG got their £300,000 ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 30, 2019, 06:02:35 AM
Has anyone heard whether OG got their £300,000 ?
Does any one care?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 06:32:09 AM
I think that unnamed source is currently on trial in Cascais for kidnapping, armed robbery, illegal computer access & various other offences.....

He is.  The one that looks like one of The Smith's Efits
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 08:26:42 AM
Mark Unpronounceable is a trouble making troll?

Anyone who asks questions is a troublemaking troll according to some. They believe that everything that is questioned has been sorted out by Operation Grange and filed away tied up with pretty ribbons. I do wonder who moved that bedroom door between 8.30 and 9pm and 9pn and 9.30pm though. According to Operation Grange no-one entered 5A with evil intent until after 9.30pm.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:28:42 AM
Anyone who asks questions is a troublemaking troll according to some. They believe that everything that is questioned has been sorted out by Operation Grange and filed away tied up with pretty ribbons. I do wonder who moved that bedroom door between 8.30 and 9pm and 9pn and 9.30pm though. According to Operation Grange no-one entered 5A with evil intent until after 9.30pm.

I think the abductor was already in 5a when Gerry checked at 9pm ish.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:52:03 AM
Anyone who asks questions is a troublemaking troll according to some. They believe that everything that is questioned has been sorted out by Operation Grange and filed away tied up with pretty ribbons. I do wonder who moved that bedroom door between 8.30 and 9pm and 9pn and 9.30pm though. According to Operation Grange no-one entered 5A with evil intent until after 9.30pm.

Is it normal behaviour for thousands of people to keep up an interminable campaign of asking the same questions for twelve years ... ??
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 30, 2019, 09:15:04 AM
I think the abductor was already in 5a when Gerry checked at 9pm ish.

One trouble with that,what abductor? wheres it been established there was one?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 09:22:14 AM
One trouble with that,what abductor? wheres it been established there was one?
The Judicial police for example ...
Snip
30 October 2013 Correio da Manhã report that the PJ has strong evidence to believe that Madeleine's abductor was a former employee of the Ocean Club who died in 2009 in a tractor accident. They claim this was the strongest new lead presented to state prosecutors - by the PJ team working in Porto - which led to the investigation being reopened.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id467.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
One trouble with that,what abductor? wheres it been established there was one?

It hasn't.  But then neither has The McCann's involvement.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 09:55:35 AM
Is it normal behaviour for thousands of people to keep up an interminable campaign of asking the same questions for twelve years ... ??

Thank you for confirming what I posted by suggesting my behaviour is abnormal. At least you have admitted that there are thousands of people asking questions.

The question didn't arise until late in 2013, so no-one has been asking it for 12 years.

Do you think Op Grange realised they were triggering questions rather than providing answers when they found Crecheman? How do you think they and the parents would answer that question?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 10:32:53 AM
Thank you for confirming what I posted by suggesting my behaviour is abnormal. At least you have admitted that there are thousands of people asking questions.

The question didn't arise until late in 2013, so no-one has been asking it for 12 years.

Do you think Op Grange realised they were triggering questions rather than providing answers when they found Crecheman? How do you think they and the parents would answer that question?

The Met officers attached to Operation Grange are I hope following procedures and following evidence which is why they and not the investigators of May 2007 were successful in finding a man who had been 'hiding in plain sight' from 2007 till 2013.

Neither they nor Madeleine's parents owe any explanation to members of the public while there is an active investigation in progress regarding Madeleine's disappearance and why it is expected that they should is a question I would ask.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 30, 2019, 10:46:20 AM
The Judicial police for example ...
Snip
30 October 2013 Correio da Manhã report that the PJ has strong evidence to believe that Madeleine's abductor was a former employee of the Ocean Club who died in 2009 in a tractor accident. They claim this was the strongest new lead presented to state prosecutors - by the PJ team working in Porto - which led to the investigation being reopened.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id467.htm

Pedro Do Carmo May 2017: in answer to the question posed by Martin Brunt,"do you accept the girl was abducted" answered we don't know what happened and have to prepared for other scenarios.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 11:41:32 AM
The Met officers attached to Operation Grange are I hope following procedures and following evidence which is why they and not the investigators of May 2007 were successful in finding a man who had been 'hiding in plain sight' from 2007 till 2013.

Neither they nor Madeleine's parents owe any explanation to members of the public while there is an active investigation in progress regarding Madeleine's disappearance and why it is expected that they should is a question I would ask.

You hope they're following procedures and evidence? That suggests you're not completely sure. I didn't say anyone owed anyone an expplanation, I asked for your opinion about what the explanation might be.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
You hope they're following procedures and evidence? That suggests you're not completely sure. I didn't say anyone owed anyone an expplanation, I asked for your opinion about what the explanation might be.
I am sure they are following procedures part of which is following the evidence.  Particularly that from 2007 which they had to play 'catch-up' with ... for example, the man carrying his daughter home.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 12:38:21 PM
I am sure they are following procedures part of which is following the evidence.  Particularly that from 2007 which they had to play 'catch-up' with ... for example, the man carrying his daughter home.

In my opinion they began with a preconception. That isn't supposed ro be how cases begin. In my opinion that led them to following certain evidence and ignoring ither evidence. When investigators do that they are seldom successful imo.

I assune you are unable to answer my question. I'm not surprised because I can't imagine how it can be answered in a sarisfactory manner either.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 12:44:13 PM
In my opinion they began with a preconception. That isn't supposed ro be how cases begin. In my opinion that led them to following certain evidence and ignoring ither evidence. When investigators do that they are seldom successful imo.

I assune you are unable to answer my question. I'm not surprised because I can't imagine how it can be answered in a sarisfactory manner either.

just your opinion....i dont think they started with any preconception...they discounted parental involvement based on the evidence....i think that you place to much reliance on the initial statements fr which there is evidence they were not accurately recorded
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 01:33:09 PM
In my opinion they began with a preconception. That isn't supposed ro be how cases begin. In my opinion that led them to following certain evidence and ignoring ither evidence. When investigators do that they are seldom successful imo.

I assune you are unable to answer my question. I'm not surprised because I can't imagine how it can be answered in a sarisfactory manner either.
Your opinion is based on nothing but your opinion.  You have absolutely no idea what procedures were carried out by the police and which were not.
No investigation is assured of success ... so in your opinion, we just shouldn't bother?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 01:39:08 PM
just your opinion....i dont think they started with any preconception...they discounted parental involvement based on the evidence....i think that you place to much reliance on the initial statements fr which there is evidence they were not accurately recorded

My opinion is based on the evidence of the remit and Mark Rowley's admission that they assuned the PJ had 'dealt with' the question of parental involvement,

As to the moving door;

What we do now believe is that the abductor had very probably been into the room before Gerry’s check. {madeleine}
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 02:01:36 PM
My opinion is based on the evidence of the remit and Mark Rowley's admission that they assuned the PJ had 'dealt with' the question of parental involvement,

As to the moving door;

What we do now believe is that the abductor had very probably been into the room before Gerry’s check. {madeleine}

Cite for assumed... Otherwise stick to the facts... Rowley never said that... Posting such absolute tripe should not be allowed
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 03:35:18 PM
Cite for assumed... Otherwise stick to the facts... Rowley never said that... Posting such absolute tripe should not be allowed

Is accusing people of posting absolute tripe allowed? In my opinion there are some moderators who would delete my post if I accused others of doing that. Quite right too, it's abusive imo. 

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 03:38:56 PM
Is accusing people of posting absolute tripe allowed? In my opinion there are some moderators who would delete my post if I accused others of doing that. Quite right too, it's abusive imo.

Provide a cite and I will apologise and remove it....I think the truthfulness of posts is far, more important
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 03:58:56 PM
Is accusing people of posting absolute tripe allowed? In my opinion there are some moderators who would delete my post if I accused others of doing that. Quite right too, it's abusive imo.

You obviously  can't provide a cite because your claim is untrue
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on March 30, 2019, 04:04:18 PM
What Rowley actually said re: the parents.

Quote
MR: Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the
original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was
all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of
investigation.

Og have never investigated the parents.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 04:07:30 PM
What Rowley actually said re: the parents.

Og have never investigated the parents.

They said they looked at all the material.. That's investigating to me.. Not assuming
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
What Rowley actually said re: the parents.

Og have never investigated the parents.

British police were active and on the ground throughout the investigation in 2007.  A team from Ceop - the child exploitation and online protection agency were sent out and were active.
Snip
Appeal for holiday snaps to help track Madeleine's abductor
· Specialist British officers join hunt as inquiry wanes
· Photos to be cross-checked with paedophile database
Tue 22 May 2007 23.56 BST
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/22/ukcrime.sandralaville

About that time spent by British police on the ground was Jim Gamble Child protection expert who said at a later date that ...

Snip
"he suspected Mr McCann and wife Kate 'from the very outset' – and even tried to get the father to 'do the right thing' and confess.

But the former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre said he is now convinced the couple were innocent and devastated over their daughter.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6815151/Documentary-reveals-senior-police-officer-suspected-Madeleine-McCanns-father-disappearance.html

When Scotland Yard took on the review of Madeleine's case they would have access to the debriefings of the many British officers who had been active on the ground in Portugal.

The notion that Scotland Yard had no dialogue with Kate and Gerry at this time is nothing short of risible;  they are experts in their field ... I'm no expert, but in a similar situation I would want to hear certain information from the horse's mouth which I think would be nothing less than demanded by protocol and procedure.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 05:16:49 PM
Is accusing people of posting absolute tripe allowed? In my opinion there are some moderators who would delete my post if I accused others of doing that. Quite right too, it's abusive imo.

Some of us try to be objective.  Don't knock it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 05:20:28 PM
They said they looked at all the material.. That's investigating to me.. Not assuming
I wonder what they made of this when they were looking at all the material. Are we allowed to assume they looked at the block booking for the tapas when conducting their thorough review of the original investigation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 05:39:00 PM
I wonder what they made of this when they were looking at all the material. Are we allowed to assume they looked at the block booking for the tapas when conducting their thorough review of the original investigation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE

What?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 05:43:23 PM
I wonder what they made of this when they were looking at all the material. Are we allowed to assume they looked at the block booking for the tapas when conducting their thorough review of the original investigation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE

You can assume whatever you like but a poster cannot claim as a fact that Rowley assumed anything
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 05:49:09 PM
Thank you for confirming what I posted by suggesting my behaviour is abnormal. At least you have admitted that there are thousands of people asking questions.

The question didn't arise until late in 2013, so no-one has been asking it for 12 years.

Do you think Op Grange realised they were triggering questions rather than providing answers when they found Crecheman? How do you think they and the parents would answer that question?
LOL only six years then.  That’s normal.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
You can assume whatever you like but a poster cannot claim as a fact that Rowley assumed anything
Is there any other assumption I can make other than they were both telling blatant lies about they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas? I just don't see any way they could have possibly thought they weren't going to get in, when they knew the tapas was block booked for the entire week, including the 3rd. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 06:20:09 PM
Is there any other assumption I can make other than they were both telling blatant lies about they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas? I just don't see any way they could have possibly thought they weren't going to get in, when they knew the tapas was block booked for the entire week, including the 3rd. Any suggestions?

They obviously thought that the public would never see the files.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:23:30 PM
They obviously thought that the public would never see the files.
That's certainly one sensible suggestion imo, I wonder if there will be any others.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:32:23 PM
That's certainly one sensible suggestion imo, I wonder if there will be any others.
Why is it sensible exactly?  Please explain the logic.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:38:40 PM
Why is it sensible exactly?  Please explain the logic.
Because it's the only logical one I can think of. Can your logic provide a more sensible suggestion?
I'd love to listen to it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:40:23 PM
Because it's the only logical one I can think of. Can your logic provide a more sensible suggestion?
I'd love to listen to it.
Not until you explain what is logical about it first.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:42:11 PM
Not until you explain what is logical about it first.
Because I just don't see any way they could have possibly thought they weren't going to get in, when they knew the tapas was block booked for the entire week, including the 3rd.
Your turn.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:43:21 PM
Because I just don't see any way they could have possibly thought they weren't going to get in, when they knew the tapas was block booked for the entire week, including the 3rd.
Your turn.
That’s not what you claimed was sensible.   Read back.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:44:47 PM
That’s not what you claimed was logical.   Read back.
&^&*%   &^&*%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:45:06 PM
&^&*%   &^&*%
&^&*% &^&*%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 06:50:36 PM
I wonder what they made of this when they were looking at all the material. Are we allowed to assume they looked at the block booking for the tapas when conducting their thorough review of the original investigation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE

The crying story was as confusing as it could be It started out with the twine crying, then became Madeleine and Sean, then just Madeleine. The parents couldn't imagine when it happened, apparently. They wondered if it was when the children were being put down; well they should know because they put them down. Of course not all that appeared in the PJ files where Op Grange were looking.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 06:52:48 PM
And no doubt that particular missing chld had many other soft toys, the smell of which would not have become an unfamiliar dirty smell.
She looks to have being drawing some comfort from her daughter's smell on the toy until 6 days before she alleges she was informed about the dogs. At which time she decided to subject it to an extensive cleaning process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8yMpj-d80&t=114s
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 06:53:50 PM
The crying story was as confusing as it could be It started out with the twine crying, then became Madeleine and Sean, then just Madeleine. The parents couldn't imagine when it happened, apparently. They wondered if it was when the children were being put down; well they should know because they put them down. Of course not all that appeared in the PJ files where Op Grange were looking.
Could we have cites for all of that please.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 07:16:38 PM
Could we have cites for all of that please.

Madeleine said twins cried
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
Madeleine said she and Sean cried
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Madeleine said she cried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:23:07 PM
Madeleine said twins cried
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
Madeleine said she and Sean cried
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Madeleine said she cried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE

Which was it, do you think?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 07:25:33 PM
Is accusing people of posting absolute tripe allowed? In my opinion there are some moderators who would delete my post if I accused others of doing that. Quite right too, it's abusive imo.
Calling a post tripe was OK.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 07:26:19 PM
Madeleine said twins cried
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
Madeleine said she and Sean cried
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
Madeleine said she cried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFL6Jown0LE
Could you extract the relevant passages please.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 07:41:10 PM
Which was it, do you think?
If they have given three different versions of the one event, that suggests none of them are true imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:46:26 PM
If they have given three different versions of the one event, that suggests none of them are true imo.

If you want to believe that The Mccanns said all three then that's fine by me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 07:53:30 PM
If you want to believe that The Mccanns said all three then that's fine by me.

that certainly is one possibility but in light of all the other evidence not the only or most likely afaiac
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 07:57:00 PM
If you want to believe that The Mccanns said all three then that's fine by me.
If there is any reason I shouldn't believe them on this occasion feel free to share it? If we are to consider the evidence of Mrs Fenn it could indicate it was included to mitigate Madeleine crying for 1hr 15 mins on the Tuesday. If I were to pick one of the three it would be Madeleine said she cried for that simple reason.. but as I have demonstrated in one my recent posts, we can't believe a word they say imo. The inability to trust a word they say, damaged the investigation beyond repair. And still does imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 07:59:30 PM
If there is any reason I shouldn't believe them on this occasion feel free to share it? If we are to consider the evidence of Mrs Fenn it could indicate it was included to mitigate Madeleine crying for 1hr 15 mins on the Tuesday. If I were to pick one of the three it would be Madeleine said she cried for that simple reason.. but as I have demonstrated in one my recent posts, we can't believe a word they say imo. The inability to trust a word they say, damaged the investigation beyond repair. And still does imo.

I have to say that I don't really care.  In My Opinion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 08:02:19 PM
Which was it, do you think?

None. I don’t think it happened.

It did make me laugh though when Swann said in the Netflix documentary ( from memory ) what could have made Madeleine cry the night before she disappeared.......) I think waking up in a darkened room with no adults within wailing distance is the most logical answer.

I know everyone has a right to be dense but I’m afraid Swann abuses it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 08:04:46 PM
She looks to have being drawing some comfort from her daughter's smell on the toy until 6 days before she alleges she was informed about the dogs. At which time she decided to subject it to an extensive cleaning process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8yMpj-d80&t=114s

And her daughter's smell was composed of what?
I did ask you in an earlier post if each individual child in a family has a smell only peculiar to that child.
My husband is one of thirteen siblings.
Did they all have a smell individual to themselves.
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:05:01 PM
I have to say that I don't really care.  In My Opinion.
It's your opinion to with it as you see fit Eleanor. I may not agree with your opinion on occasions, but it's one opinion I intend to fully respect. You think everyone is worth the bother Eleanor. That approach deserves everyone's utmost respect imo.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:09:14 PM
And her daughter's smell was composed of what?
I did ask you in an earlier post if each individual child in a family has a smell only peculiar to that child.
My husband is one of thirteen siblings.
Did they all have a smell individual to themselves.
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used?
I fail to understand what Kate McCann's contradictory behavior that the video demonstrates imo, regarding the soft toy has to do with any one of your thirteen siblings. Hopefully none of them have been abducted and never will be.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:09:29 PM
Is there any other assumption I can make other than they were both telling blatant lies about they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas? I just don't see any way they could have possibly thought they weren't going to get in, when they knew the tapas was block booked for the entire week, including the 3rd. Any suggestions?
Yet scurrilous lies were repeated in the Portuguese press ... but not a single word about the block booking???  Seems to me you have your fact mixed up with fiction.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:12:42 PM
Yet scurrilous lies were repeated in the Portuguese press ... but not a single word about the block booking???  Seems to me you have your fact mixed up with fiction.
Are you citing scurrilous lies as a mitigating factor for the explainations Kate and Gerry told in that interview?
Are you suggesting there was no block booking?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 08:13:47 PM
I fail to understand what Kate McCann's contradictory behavior that the video demonstrates imo, regarding the soft toy has to do with any one of your thirteen siblings. Hopefully none of them have been abducted and never will be.

You misread my post and totally failed to answer my question, once again.
I have observed that this is the manner in which you deal with posts which you cannot adequately answer.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:18:36 PM
It's your opinion to with it as you see fit Eleanor. I may not agree with your opinion on occasions, but it's one opinion I intend to fully respect. You think everyone is worth the bother Eleanor. That approach deserves everyone's utmost respect imo.  8(0(*

Thank You.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:21:48 PM
Are you citing scurrilous lies as a mitigating factor for the blatant lies Kate and Gerry told in that interview?
Are you suggesting there was no block booking?

You are pushing your luck again.  Libel and accusations of lies are not permitted.  Please don't do this again.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:22:14 PM
You misread my post and totally failed to answer my question, once again.
I have observed that this is the manner in which you deal with posts which you cannot adequately answer.
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used? That's not a question, that's a suggestion. Hardly any wonder I failed to answer it.
My sister's soft toy still retains her own unique scent after sixteen years, Are you seriously suggesting I am fabricating that fact or you suggesting she never washed and shampooed her hair? If you're suggesting either and intend to be factually correct, you had better revise your suggestion. Your wrong!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:22:32 PM
That's certainly one sensible suggestion imo, I wonder if there will be any others.
At that time did they even know or care about the files we have seen on the internet?  I very much doubt it.  Who could ever have guessed Madeleine would not be found and instead written off when the case was archived and everyone but her parents stopped looking for her.
Absolute disgrace I call it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:25:10 PM
You are pushing your luck again.  Libel and accusations of lies are not permitted.  Please don't do this again.
Eleanor they couldn't possibly have thought they weren't going to get into the tapas, they had a block booking. What other term can be allowed to use to describe their actions accurately? I'm being totally sincere with you Eleanor, you have my utmost respect. Correctly so imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:25:59 PM
Because it's the only logical one I can think of. Can your logic provide a more sensible suggestion?
I'd love to listen to it.
I would like an explanation of why the Portuguese in effect closed down the search for a missing child ... pity that disgraceful action doesn't excite your interest as much as getting the knife into her parents does.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:29:31 PM
Eleanor they couldn't possibly have thought they weren't going to get into the tapas, they had a block booking. What other term can be allowed to use to describe their actions accurately? I'm being totally sincere with you Eleanor, you have my utmost respect. Correctly so imo.

Then please just do me a favour, and make my life a bit more easy.  Don't accuse anyone of deliberate lies.

Could you do that for me?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:33:49 PM
The crying story was as confusing as it could be It started out with the twine crying, then became Madeleine and Sean, then just Madeleine. The parents couldn't imagine when it happened, apparently. They wondered if it was when the children were being put down; well they should know because they put them down. Of course not all that appeared in the PJ files where Op Grange were looking.
Do you think the British police stationed in Portugal didn't file reports at the time and subsequently and wouldn't have provided information making the files redundant except for those instances detailing how not to conduct an investigation.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:35:58 PM
Eleanor they couldn't possibly have thought they weren't going to get into the tapas, they had a block booking. What other term can be allowed to use to describe their actions accurately? I'm being totally sincere with you Eleanor, you have my utmost respect. Correctly so imo.

Oh, and by the way, I suspect that someone has been feeding you bull poop.  I am not half as daft as I look.  I am just naturally fair and reasonable.  Up to a point.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 08:37:13 PM
At that time did they even know or care about the files we have seen on the internet?  I very much doubt it.  Who could ever have guessed Madeleine would not be found and instead written off when the case was archived and everyone but her parents stopped looking for her.
Absolute disgrace I call it.

I’m sure they did care about the files being made public. I can remember them both trying to justify why Madeleine had asked them why they hadn’t come when she cried yet still went out that night and also why Kate didn’t answer the 48 questions put to her.

 I remember an interview with Kate’s mum after they were made arguidos and she said that her daughter and husband where doing everything to help the police and answering every question. I’m sure that’s what she was lead to believe. Imagine her shock when the files were released.

https://youtu.be/wOkpiJ6DEco
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:40:31 PM
I’m sure they did care about the files being made public. I can remember them both trying to justify why Madeleine had asked them why they hadn’t come when she cried yet still went out that night and also why Kate didn’t answer the 48 questions put to her.

 I remember an interview with Kate’s mum after they were made arguidos and she said that her daughter and husband where doing everything to help the police and answering every question. I’m sure that’s what she was lead to believe. Imagine her shock when the files were released.

https://youtu.be/wOkpiJ6DEco

Come on Faith, you know that Kate had answered their questions beforehand.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
I would like an explanation of why the Portuguese in effect closed down the search for a missing child ... pity that disgraceful action doesn't excite your interest as much as getting the knife into her parents does.
I view the parents and their friend's decision to refuse to cooperate with the new coordinator as a justifiable factor in closing the investigation. I fail to see why if the parents and their friends couldn't be bothered helping out, why the Portuguese should be any different. SY's lack of results to date indicate to me the Portuguese made the correct call. If certain crucial witnesses imo were willing to clarify certain crucial facts, then I'm certain my opinion would be different. Why would the disgraceful actions in this case excite anyone's interests?
They're never likely to turn me on.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:46:42 PM
I view the parents and their friend's decision to refuse to cooperate with the new coordinator as a justifiable factor in closing the investigation. I fail to see why if the parents and their friends couldn't be bothered helping out, why the Portuguese should be any different. SY's lack of results to date indicate to me the Portuguese made the correct call. If certain crucial witnesses imo were willing to clarify certain crucial facts, then I'm certain my opinion would be different. Why would the disgraceful actions in this case excite anyone's interests?
They're never likely to turn me on.

What was The Correct Call?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:49:35 PM
Oh, and by the way, I suspect that someone has been feeding you bull poop.  I am not half as daft as I look.  I am just naturally fair and reasonable.  Up to a point.
I don't know what I've said the merits that reply. I don't think you've read my post in it's true context.
Anyone who adopts the approach that everyone is worth the bother, can hardly be daft imo. No one's been feeding me anything by the way - I'm famished.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 08:49:43 PM
If they have given three different versions of the one event, that suggests none of them are true imo.
Some Portuguese cops waited until Paulo Rebelo was safely out of the way in Britain to question witnesses before taking the opportunity to leak that information to the Portuguese press.

Which necessitated Rebelo to cut short his investigative time in England to return to Portugal to plug leaks which could only have come from police sources.

Even at that time there were officers around all to ready to break the law to sabotage an investigation into a missing child to get the boot into her parents.

Absolutely shameful!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:50:25 PM
What was The Correct Call?
To close the investigation imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
Then please just do me a favour, and make my life a bit more easy.  Don't accuse anyone of deliberate lies.

Could you do that for me?
Of course I could, And I can say a big fat sorry if I made your life hard. X
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 08:55:47 PM
I don't know what I've said the merits that reply. I don't think you've read my post in it's true context.
Anyone who adopts the approach that everyone is worth the bother, can hardly be daft imo. No one's been feeding me anything by the way - I'm famished.

Oh, I did.  But I am truly pleased that you have some respect for me.  Not a lot of people do.  Kindness is so often seen as weakness.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 08:56:58 PM
I view the parents and their friend's decision to refuse to cooperate with the new coordinator as a justifiable factor in closing the investigation. I fail to see why if the parents and their friends couldn't be bothered helping out, why the Portuguese should be any different. SY's lack of results to date indicate to me the Portuguese made the correct call. If certain crucial witnesses imo were willing to clarify certain crucial facts, then I'm certain my opinion would be different. Why would the disgraceful actions in this case excite anyone's interests?
They're never likely to turn me on.
I view the PJs inability to understand the evidence as the main reason the investigation was closed
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 08:58:50 PM
Oh, I did.  But I am truly pleased that you have some respect for me.  Not a lot of people do.  Kindness is so often seen as weakness.
Others see it as strength imo... and rightly so.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 09:01:40 PM
If there is any reason I shouldn't believe them on this occasion feel free to share it? If we are to consider the evidence of Mrs Fenn it could indicate it was included to mitigate Madeleine crying for 1hr 15 mins on the Tuesday. If I were to pick one of the three it would be Madeleine said she cried for that simple reason.. but as I have demonstrated in one my recent posts, we can't believe a word they say imo. The inability to trust a word they say, damaged the investigation beyond repair. And still does imo.
Oh well then ... it sure debunks the notion entertained by some of cadavers and freezers days before.  Every cloud has a silver lining after all.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2019, 09:06:50 PM
Of course I could, And I can say a big fat sorry if I made your life hard. X

Thank You again.  I just don't like having to sanction anything or anybody.  It really upsets me to have to do so.

But you have been really good this last couple of days.  An asset to this Forum in fact.  x
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 09:09:04 PM
Are you citing scurrilous lies as a mitigating factor for the explainations Kate and Gerry told in that interview?
Are you suggesting there was no block booking?
Calls to mind what Rhett said to Scarlett all those years ago ... in this instance I must say I concur.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
Come on Faith, you know that Kate had answered their questions beforehand.

Kate told her mum that she would be answering every question, even after being made arguida.

Her poor mum when she realised that her daughter hadn’t been honest with her.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 09:26:23 PM
At that time did they even know or care about the files we have seen on the internet?  I very much doubt it.  Who could ever have guessed Madeleine would not be found and instead written off when the case was archived and everyone but her parents stopped looking for her.
Absolute disgrace I call it.
With all due respect, I fail to see what any of that has to do with Gerry and Kate sitting and giving a TV interview and telling the audience that they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas bar on the 3rd, when they knew fine well they were already booked in. Do you think that's a good idea when your daughter's missing and you have already given the police two completely different versions of the last time he seen her alive.
Completely illogical behaviour for innocent parents of an abducted child imo.. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 09:30:11 PM
Which was it, do you think?

That's a question the people changing their story need to answer, not me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 09:33:09 PM
With all due respect, I fail to see what any of that has to do with Gerry and Kate sitting and giving a TV interview and telling the audience that they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas bar on the 3rd, when they knew fine well they were already booked in. Do you think that's a good idea when your daughter's missing and you have already given the police two completely different versions of the last time he seen her alive.
Completely illogical behaviour for innocent parents of an abducted child imo..
We see a lot of posters misinterpreting statements to alter their meaning and I'm sure this is exactly what you are doing here
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 09:40:37 PM
Which was it, do you think?

Rachael stayed in next door and heard no crying on Wednesday night so that should answer your question. However, Pamela Fenn said Madeleine was crying for a long period on Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 09:46:17 PM
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used? That's not a question, that's a suggestion. Hardly any wonder I failed to answer it.
My sister's soft toy still retains her own unique scent after sixteen years, Are you seriously suggesting I am fabricating that fact or you suggesting she never washed and shampooed her hair? If you're suggesting either and intend to be factually correct, you had better revise your suggestion. Your wrong!

I guess your superior East End of Glasgow Hunan intuition does also include a much superior sense of smell.
I've never had the ability to distinguish family member by smell.
Possibly they should not wash, change deodorants, perfume, after shave.etc.
I'm just a Lanarkshire lass ( the posh side of the.county), so freely admit that I don't have such an exceptional skill
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 09:47:14 PM
Rachael stayed in next door and heard no crying on Wednesday night so that should answer your question. However, Pamela Fenn said Madeleine was crying for a long period on Tuesday night.

No she didn't..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2019, 09:51:22 PM
We see a lot of posters misinterpreting statements to alter their meaning and I'm sure this is exactly what you are doing here

Gerry McCann stated that the group thpught they might not get into the Tapas. Did no-one rell him they were booked in all week?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 09:55:19 PM
Gerry McCann stated that the group thpught they might not get into the Tapas. Did no-one rell him they were booked in all week?
Thst needs a cite..otherwise it has no validity ..you have already misquoted Rowley today
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 09:57:04 PM
She looks to have being drawing some comfort from her daughter's smell on the toy until 6 days before she alleges she was informed about the dogs. At which time she decided to subject it to an extensive cleaning process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8yMpj-d80&t=114s

Eddie did find it in a bin so not that precious to be tossed in there but it's a remarkable coincidence that Eddie grabs that toy and no other. I personally don't believe what she said about when/why she washed CC.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 09:59:58 PM
Eddie did find it in a bin so not that precious to be tossed in there but it's a remarkable coincidence that Eddie grabs that toy and no other. I personally don't believe what she said about when/why she washed CC.

Yes grabbed it but didn't alert to it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 10:01:17 PM
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used? That's not a question, that's a suggestion. Hardly any wonder I failed to answer it.
My sister's soft toy still retains her own unique scent after sixteen years, Are you seriously suggesting I am fabricating that fact or you suggesting she never washed and shampooed her hair? If you're suggesting either and intend to be factually correct, you had better revise your suggestion. Your wrong!
[/quote

I guess your superior East End of Glasgow Hunan intuition does also include a much superior sense of smell.
I've never had the ability to distinguish family member by smell.
Possibly they should not wash, change deodorants, perfume, after shave.etc.
I'm just a Lanarkshire lass ( the posh side of the.county), so freely admit that I don't have such an exceptional skill
There's absolutely nothing posh about Lanarksire unless your a toff from Bothwell. Don't kid yersel on hen, lol. All the rest is merely an extension of the Eastend of Glesga. I never ever implied I had a sense of smell that could distinguish between family members. I said, and correctly so, that my late sister's soft toy has it's own unique smell that reminds me of her. That's a fact. If I ever put in the washing machine, it'll come out just another old soft toy. That's exactly what Kate done 6 days before she alleges she learnt of the dogs heading for PDL. In the interest of accuracy, the 18th of July is nothing other than an unverified allegation at this stage.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:01:23 PM
No she didn't..

Yes she did!

McCANNS said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they'd seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didnt hear any, well you know, I didnt hear anything.

00.46.02 1578 'So whilst you were in the apartment on the Wednesday evening, did you hear anything unusual''

 Reply 'No, nothing, no, erm it'.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:03:05 PM
Yes she did!

McCANNS said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they'd seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didnt hear any, well you know, I didnt hear anything.

00.46.02 1578 'So whilst you were in the apartment on the Wednesday evening, did you hear anything unusual''

 Reply 'No, nothing, no, erm it'.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Mrs Fenn never said she heard Maddie crying.. She said she heard a child crying
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:09:21 PM
yeah older than 2 from below.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:11:02 PM
One interesting thing about Wednesday which should not be overlooked is Gerry claiming his mate Dave went to check on his children by himself. Dave denied it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:12:47 PM
No she didn't..
I thought that was about right.  So who is "she"?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:13:26 PM
yeah older than 2 from below.

Cite for older than two from below
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:14:22 PM
I thought that was about right.  So who is "she"?
Mrs, fenn never, said she, heard Maddie crying
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:15:07 PM
One interesting thing about Wednesday which should not be overlooked is Gerry claiming his mate Dave went to check on his children by himself. Dave denied it.

Another cite required
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:15:53 PM
Cite for older than two from below

Read her statement. You have some cheek asking for cites when you never provide any!

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:16:23 PM
Gerry McCann stated that the group thpught they might not get into the Tapas. Did no-one rell him they were booked in all week?
There were rules about block bookings.  It was the other guests who were missing out on their access to the Tapas Restaurant.  Maybe Gerry was aware that others were complaining about the Tapas 9 hogging the large table.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:18:22 PM
Cite for older than two from below

"not a baby of two years of age or younger"

"She also said that she never told the McCann's that she had heard their daughter crying previously on 1st May because she thought it would just increase their suffering."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:18:57 PM
Mrs, fenn never, said she, heard Maddie crying
Well she at least implied she thought it was Madeleine then.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
Another cite required

Gerry McCann 10 May statement.

DP rog denying checked on any children all week. Used baby monitor.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 10:20:15 PM
One interesting thing about Wednesday which should not be overlooked is Gerry claiming his mate Dave went to check on his children by himself. Dave denied it.
You better believe it and Gerry was also the first one to mention David Payne's visit to check on Kate. A fact they both forgot to mention. I'm not sure which of the two versions of the Payne visit we're expected to believe. The Kate was there version or the Kate and Gerry were there version.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:21:05 PM
Well she at least implied she thought it was Madeleine then.
She never said it was Maddie.. And it's never been shown it was Maddie...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:23:47 PM
The twins were 2 years old. She said an older child so that is Maddy (nearly 4).
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:24:23 PM
She never said it was Maddie.. And it's never been shown it was Maddie...
Mrs Fenn would have had to go down stairs and enter the McCann's apartment and sight Madeleine crying to absolutely confirm it was Madeleine crying.   Anything else has a degree of assumption to it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:24:27 PM
Gerry McCann 10 May statement.

DP rog denying checked on any children all week. Used baby monitor.

Webwould need to look at their actual statements... Not your interpretation...are these these the... Unreliable... PJ taken statements.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:26:11 PM
Webwould need to look at their actual statements... Not your interpretation...are these these the... Unreliable... PJ taken statements.
Give them some credit.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:26:27 PM
The twins were 2 years old. She said an older child so that is Maddy.

She didn't mention 2 years old.. You did... So how old did she think the child was who was crying.. And can we, rely on the, accuracy of her statement
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 30, 2019, 10:27:45 PM
Give them some credit.

We have no idea how accurate  these statements are... As Colin Sutton said... The, room for error is enormous
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:28:06 PM
Mrs Fenn would have had to go down stairs and enter the McCann's apartment and sight Madeleine crying to absolutely confirm it was Madeleine crying.   Anything else has a degree of assumption to it.


All we can do is make deductions from the available facts.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 30, 2019, 10:28:59 PM
She didn't mention 2 years old.. You did... So how old did she think the child was who was crying.. And can we, rely on the, accuracy of her statement

That is in her statement so why won't you read it?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 30, 2019, 10:35:30 PM
That is in her statement so why won't you read it?
We are asked to read the statements but if they say something we don't like we can claim they had issues with the translations.  The whole issue becomes problematic.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 10:35:56 PM
Or as I did suggest that a child's smell is made up from the combination of the hair shampoo,: soap used in bathing and the laundry powder used? That's not a question, that's a suggestion. Hardly any wonder I failed to answer it.
My sister's soft toy still retains her own unique scent after sixteen years, Are you seriously suggesting I am fabricating that fact or you suggesting she never washed and shampooed her hair? If you're suggesting either and intend to be factually correct, you had better revise your suggestion. Your wrong!


I guess your superior East End of Glasgow Hunan intuition does also include a much superior sense of smell.
I've never had the ability to distinguish family member by smell.
Possibly they should not wash, change deodorants, perfume, after shave.etc.
I'm just a Lanarkshire lass ( the posh side of the.county), so freely admit that I don't have such an exceptional skill

There is no posh side of Lanarkshire.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 10:44:37 PM
There is no posh side of Lanarkshire.

Of course there is.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 10:53:07 PM
There's absolutely nothing posh about Lanarksire unless your a toff from Bothwell. Don't kid yersel on hen, lol. All the rest is merely an extension of the Eastend of Glesga. I never ever implied I had a sense of smell that could distinguish between family members. I said, and correctly so, that my late sister's soft toy has it's own unique smell that reminds me of her. That's a fact. If I ever put in the washing machine, it'll come out just another old soft toy. That's exactly what Kate done 6 days before she alleges she learnt of the dogs heading for PDL. In the interest of accuracy, the 18th of July is nothing other than an unverified allegation at this stage.


I'm sure your late sister's toy does have a smell which reminds you of her but so would many of her belongings which would have had the same smell.
That smell would be a mixture of the soaps, shampoo, perfume, laundry products.etc.

I'm sure Kate had many an item whose smell reminded her of her much loved child.

Lanarkshire is not Glasgow, well not the part of Lanarkshire where I was born and bred.
Quite, quite different.





Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 10:54:52 PM
There is no posh side of Lanarkshire.
Bothwell is posh by most people's standards and even has it's own castle. Lot of millionaires live in very exclusive individual cul du sacs in Bothwell where the property can be very expensive. The rest of Lanarkshire is just an extension of the Eastend of Glasgow. The Clyde walkway along the Clyde at Bothwell also adds to it's appeal, particularly in the Autumn months. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 11:02:03 PM
Bothwell is posh by most people's standards and even has it's own castle. Lot of millionaires live in very exclusive individual cul du sacs in Bothwell where the property can be very expensive. The rest of Lanarkshire is just an extension of the Eastend of Glasgow. The Clyde walkway along the Clyde at Bothwell also adds to it's appeal, particularly in the Autumn months.


There are some very posh houses built down in the area of Rosebank,  Garrion, Crossford and all along the CydeValley.
Some stunning houses!
Well away from the East End of Glasgow.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 11:06:51 PM
With all due respect, I fail to see what any of that has to do with Gerry and Kate sitting and giving a TV interview and telling the audience that they didn't think they were going to get into the tapas bar on the 3rd, when they knew fine well they were already booked in. Do you think that's a good idea when your daughter's missing and you have already given the police two completely different versions of the last time he seen her alive.
Completely illogical behaviour for innocent parents of an abducted child imo..
I think the problem you may have is that you find whatever this particular couple have been doing over the past twelve years 'illogical' or many other adjectives you find appropriate.

I don't suffer from that syndrome and therefore find it rather difficult to follow the thought processes of your posts; I really don't dwell on the past ... I've moved on to the here and now where two National police forces are busy investigating Madeleine McCann's ongoing case
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:10:48 PM
Kate told her mum that she would be answering every question, even after being made arguida.

Her poor mum when she realised that her daughter hadn’t been honest with her.
Could someone make Faithlilly provide a cite for both statement please.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:11:00 PM

I'm sure your late sister's toy does have a smell which reminds you of her but so would many of her belongings which would have had the same smell.
That smell would be a mixture of the soaps, shampoo, perfume, laundry products.etc.

I'm sure Kate had many an item whose smell reminded her of her much loved child.

Lanarkshire is not Glasgow, well not the part of Lanarkshire where I was born and bred.
Quite, quite different.
No smell of shampoo, no smell of soap. I can assure you.
Erngath my sister's toy smells exactly the same today as it did when I got it 16 years ago. It's a lot older than 16 years and if it ever went in the wash it would come out sentimentally worthless to me because it would not smell the same and her dna would no longer be on it. Her smell is on it, her dna is on it, she is no longer with us. Why would I want to wash it? Disease? We have a saying in Glasgow about disease that goes, dis es wee troosers fit ye.,  lol.
I realise you claim you find the fact Kate washed her abducted daughter's favorite soft toy around the time she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way to be perfectly innocent parental behaviour but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think you'll make me change my mind by citing shampoo and soap. Na... I'm still not buying it I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:18:22 PM
No smell of shampoo, no smell of soap. I can assure you.
Erngath my sister's toy smells exactly the same today as it did when I got it 16 years ago. It's a lot older than 16 years and if it ever went in the wash it would come out sentimentally worthless to me because it would not smell the same and her dna would no longer be on it. Her smell is on it, her dna is on it, she is no longer with us. Why would I want to wash it? Disease? We have a saying in Glasgow about disease that goes, dis es wee troosers fit ye.,  lol.
I realise you claim you find the fact Kate washed her abducted daughter's favorite soft toy around the time she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way to be perfectly innocent parental behaviour but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think you'll make me change my mind by citing shampoo and soap. Na... I'm still not buying it I'm afraid.
With the greatest respect I think all this talk of cuddly toys having a discernable unique smell to an individual child is complete crap.  We still have a number of my kids manky teddies from when they are young and I have given them a very thorough sniff test.  They just smell slightly musty and neglected, none of them brought back memories of my tiny tots’ unique perfumes.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 11:21:27 PM
No smell of shampoo, no smell of soap. I can assure you.
Erngath my sister's toy smells exactly the same today as it did when I got it 16 years ago. It's a lot older than 16 years and if it ever went in the wash it would come out sentimentally worthless to me because it would not smell the same and her dna would no longer be on it. Her smell is on it, her dna is on it, she is no longer with us. Why would I want to wash it? Disease? We have a saying in Glasgow about disease that goes, dis es wee troosers fit ye.,  lol.
I realise you claim you find the fact Kate washed her abducted daughter's favorite soft toy around the time she learnt a cadaver dog was on the way to be perfectly innocent parental behaviour but you're barking up the wrong tree if you think you'll make me change my mind by citing shampoo and soap. Na... I'm still not buying it I'm afraid.

I have no concern nor any inclination to make you change your mind.
Perfectly happy for you to continue in your belief that Kate washing Madeleine's toy is an indication of some alterior motive.
I content myself in the belief that New Scotland Yard has not as yet given any indication that they share your view.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on March 30, 2019, 11:23:09 PM
With the greatest respect I think all this talk of cuddly toys having a discernable unique smell to an individual child is complete crap.  We still have a number of my kids manky teddies from when they are young and I have given them a very thorough sniff test.  They just smell slightly musty and neglected, none of them brought back memories of my tiny tots’ unique perfumes.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2019, 11:27:16 PM
There's absolutely nothing posh about Lanarksire unless your a toff from Bothwell. Don't kid yersel on hen, lol. All the rest is merely an extension of the Eastend of Glesga. I never ever implied I had a sense of smell that could distinguish between family members. I said, and correctly so, that my late sister's soft toy has it's own unique smell that reminds me of her. That's a fact. If I ever put in the washing machine, it'll come out just another old soft toy. That's exactly what Kate done 6 days before she alleges she learnt of the dogs heading for PDL. In the interest of accuracy, the 18th of July is nothing other than an unverified allegation at this stage.

30 July 2007
Specialist sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm


THURSDAY, JULY 12:
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat.

Quote: From Kate McCann's diary

In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:28:36 PM
I think the problem you may have is that you find whatever this particular couple have been doing over the past twelve years 'illogical' or many other adjectives you find appropriate.

I don't suffer from that syndrome and therefore find it rather difficult to follow the thought processes of your posts; I really don't dwell on the past ... I've moved on to the here and now where two National police forces are busy investigating Madeleine McCann's ongoing case
I can live with the fact you've moved on and you don't suffer from any syndromes. I can't do anything about your difficultly in following my thought process however. I've not moved away from the fact two police investigations into what happened to Madeleine McCann are currently ongoing either. I'm hopeful they conclude their investigations positively but like I said to someone last evening. No theory is ever accepted without overwhelming evidence to support it. If the Mccanns and their very expensive team expect anyone to treat their theory any differently, then their living in cloud cuckoo land imo. 
I've seen no overwhelming evidence that supports the whooshing curtain theory.In fact,  I've seen nothing of evidential value that supports it at all imo.
I have formed the view that Kate's whooshing curtain performance is evidence against abduction imo. I believe it's one of the worst theatrical performances I'v ever had to witness imo. You'll have to forgive my honesty, but I say it the way I see it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 11:29:09 PM
Bothwell is posh by most people's standards and even has it's own castle. Lot of millionaires live in very exclusive individual cul du sacs in Bothwell where the property can be very expensive. The rest of Lanarkshire is just an extension of the Eastend of Glasgow. The Clyde walkway along the Clyde at Bothwell also adds to it's appeal, particularly in the Autumn months.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:30:20 PM
30 July 2007
Specialist sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm


THURSDAY, JULY 12:
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat.

Quote: From Kate McCann's diary



In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you
What about Kate's book, she says she learnt of the dog's on the 18th July? Are you going to ignore that witness evidence?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:30:30 PM
30 July 2007
Specialist sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm


THURSDAY, JULY 12:
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat.

Quote: From Kate McCann's diary

In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you
I wonder what reason the sceptics can give us for why Kate volunteered this information to us in the first place if the only reason she washed cuddlecat was to get rid of incriminating evidence.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:31:59 PM
What about Kate's book, she says she learnt of the dog's on the 18th July? Are you going to ignore that witness evidence?
So do you think Kate is psychic then?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:33:11 PM
With the greatest respect I think all this talk of cuddly toys having a discernable unique smell to an individual child is complete crap.  We still have a number of my kids manky teddies from when they are young and I have given them a very thorough sniff test.  They just smell slightly musty and neglected, none of them brought back memories of my tiny tots’ unique perfumes.
I can live with your opinion that cuddly toys having a discernible unique smell to an individual child is complete crap. I can live with that no problem. It's your opinion, not mine, and it's a free country.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:35:41 PM
So do you think Kate is psychic then?
I'm getting bored telling you what I think, your going on the rubber ear list - now.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
I can live with your opinion that cuddly toys having a discernible unique smell to an individual child is complete crap. I can live with that no problem. It's your opinion, not mine, and it's a free country.
I wonder what science would have to say about the possibility of a child’s unique scent still being discernable on any object after 16 years.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 30, 2019, 11:37:03 PM
I'm getting bored telling you what I think, your going on the rubber ear list - now.
Ooh, must have touched a nerve!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 11:42:31 PM
Bothwell is posh by most people's standards and even has it's own castle. Lot of millionaires live in very exclusive individual cul du sacs in Bothwell where the property can be very expensive. The rest of Lanarkshire is just an extension of the Eastend of Glasgow. The Clyde walkway along the Clyde at Bothwell also adds to it's appeal, particularly in the Autumn months.

Bothwell is populated by the nouveau riche, footballers, reality stars and the like. Rich but not posh. It is beautiful though and the castle on a summer’s day is a wonderful place to visit. I was fascinated by Mary Queen of Scots when I was a girl and spent my happy hours investigating the castle and more recently Chatelherault. My gran was brought up in the Palace so I have a deep connection to that part of our country. Haven’t walked the Clyde walkway yet but will the next time I’m there.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 30, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
Bothwell is populated by the nouveau riche, footballers, reality stars and the like. Rich but not posh. It is beautiful though and the castle on a summer’s day is a wonderful place to visit. I was fascinated by Mary Queen of Scots when I was a girl and spent my happy hours investigating the castle and more recently Chatelherault. My gran was brought up in the Palace so I have a deep connection to that part of our country. Haven’t walked the Clyde walkway yet but will the next time I’m there.
Well that's what I was referring to as being posh, sorry about that, but I love the walk from Strathclyde Park to  Chatelherault. The walkway at Bothwell is nice, you'll enjoy it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on March 30, 2019, 11:48:27 PM

There are some very posh houses built down in the area of Rosebank,  Garrion, Crossford and all along the CydeValley.
Some stunning houses!
Well away from the East End of Glasgow.

Agreed, beautiful houses.

I’ve lived in a very ‘posh’ part of the country for many years and one thing I’ve learned about people who have grown up here is that they never boast about it, they have no need to. They’re secure in their identity and don’t need to impress anyone. I like that.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 12:08:03 AM
Agreed, beautiful houses.

I’ve lived in a very ‘posh’ part of the country for many years and one thing I’ve learned about people who have grown up here is that they never boast about it, they have no need to. They’re secure in their identity and don’t need to impress anyone. I like that.
LOL.  “I’ve lived in a very posh part of the country, and granny was brought up in a palace, but we don’t like to boast”.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 12:13:58 AM
I can live with the fact you've moved on and you don't suffer from any syndromes. I can't do anything about your difficultly in following my thought process however. I've not moved away from the fact two police investigations into what happened to Madeleine McCann are currently ongoing either. I'm hopeful they conclude their investigations positively but like I said to someone last evening. No theory is ever accepted without overwhelming evidence to support it. If the Mccanns and their very expensive team expect anyone to treat their theory any differently, then their living in cloud cuckoo land imo. 
I've seen no overwhelming evidence that supports the whooshing curtain theory.In fact,  I've seen nothing of evidential value that supports it at all imo.
I have formed the view that Kate's whooshing curtain performance is evidence against abduction imo. I believe it's one of the worst theatrical performances I'v ever had to witness imo. You'll have to forgive my honesty, but I say it the way I see it.
Logic dictates the physical impossibility of Kate and Gerry or any of their friends contriving the vanishing of a child.

Amaral has lurched from one ridiculous scenario to another in the attempt and neither has anyone else come up with a viable solution despite having twelve years to mull it over.  If you've got one it might deserve serious consideration ... but in the absence of a working model of how it was done, pontificating about something which has never worried either the Judicial police or Scotland Yard really doesn't hold much water.

One of the first things Rebelo did when he took over the investigation was an in depth personal inspection of the apartment window ... one of the photographs of which clearly shows ... a whooshing curtain.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 31, 2019, 12:16:50 AM
You better believe it and Gerry was also the first one to mention David Payne's visit to check on Kate. A fact they both forgot to mention. I'm not sure which of the two versions of the Payne visit we're expected to believe. The Kate was there version or the Kate and Gerry were there version.

You really would think, this being a huge occasion in all their lives, they would have  a better recollection, It is all stammer and stutter  and makes no sence.  It all reads like a bad drama-wooden actors,bad script, black comedy.

They have all stayed quiet. 
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 12:17:00 AM
I see all the posts on Gerry and his mate Dave checking or not on the McCann children have disappeared. Is there a particular reason these two cannot be mentioned together on this forum?

1485 "Yeah, and at what point did you have the conversation with him' Did he stop the game or did you speak whilst he was playing''

 00:31:48 Reply "I can't remember, I can't remember. I, you know, in my mind, you know, he stopped playing and you know but I can't remember if I'm perfectly honest.'


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

He can't remember, he can't remember, he can't remember! But he remembers everything so clearly about what happened next - going inside and seeing the little angels. Shame about the other witness contradicting everything you said.  I've got you Dave!
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 12:23:31 AM
What about Kate's book, she says she learnt of the dog's on the 18th July? Are you going to ignore that witness evidence?

Uh-huh ... and she washed the cuddle cat when exactly?  Thursday July 12th.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 12:26:29 AM
30 July 2007
Specialist sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id161.htm


THURSDAY, JULY 12:
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat.

Quote: From Kate McCann's diary

In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you

As you well know that entry could be written at any time. If she is involved and CC was washed after she heard the sniffer dogs were on their way she is not going to use that date as the diary entry. Leaving a false trail which you may have heard before in criminal cases.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 12:36:02 AM
As you well know that entry could be written at any time. If she is involved and CC was washed after she heard the sniffer dogs were on their way she is not going to use that date as the diary entry.

Do you really think the police who were falling over themselves to set her up would have overlooked something as obvious as an amendment such as you suggest in a dated daily journal? It would have been manna from heaven.

The myth of five or in this case six days is exactly that ... a myth.  Just like all the other myths it has been necessary to construct to fit in with the narrative to make it workable.

I keep on wondering why people feel the necessity to do things like that.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 12:36:33 AM
Logic dictates the physical impossibility of Kate and Gerry or any of their friends contriving the vanishing of a child.

Amaral has lurched from one ridiculous scenario to another in the attempt and neither has anyone else come up with a viable solution despite having twelve years to mull it over.  If you've got one it might deserve serious consideration ... but in the absence of a working model of how it was done, pontificating about something which has never worried either the Judicial police or Scotland Yard really doesn't hold much water.

One of the first things Rebelo did when he took over the investigation was an in depth personal inspection of the apartment window ... one of the photographs of which clearly shows ... a whooshing curtain.
That's your logic, not mines. I think the whooshing curtain theory is ridiculous but can still be verified while it's under investigation - but only if it really did happen. Mines differs greatly.
I hold the view if your daughter is genuinely abducted, the last thing you do is give the police two completely different versions of the last time you seen your missing daughter alive and neither does his wee best buddy do the same.. The fact is that's what they both done.
And under no circumstances do you subject your abducted daughter's favorite soft toy to a significant washing procedure 6 days before you allege you learn a cadaver dog is on the way, if your daughter has really been abducted either imo.

Hopefully the investigations will decide one way or the other, then we'll know for sure what was possible and what wasn't, won't we? It's impossible for it to have been physically impossible or the prosecutor would have never written they failed to prove their innocence. The physical impossibility would prove their innocence wouldn't it? But they refused to clarify those said facts. Pity that imo,  but only if they really are innocent.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 12:44:26 AM
Uh-huh ... and she washed the cuddle cat when exactly?  Thursday July 12th.
Uh-huh,, so the 18th makes it 6 days. Don't you think you should get your facts straight before you go threatening people? That's what I done before I posted the date. I wasn't blatantly wrong after all, you were. No need to apologise, it's fine and dandy.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 12:48:59 AM
Do you really think the police who were falling over themselves to set her up would have overlooked something as obvious as an amendment such as you suggest in a dated daily journal? It would have been manna from heaven.

The myth of five or in this case six days is exactly that ... a myth.  Just like all the other myths it has been necessary to construct to fit in with the narrative to make it workable.

I keep on wondering why people feel the necessity to do things like that.

When the police arrived the washing machine was full so washing was going on before their arrival and possibly other stuff. Diary entries can be written at any time.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 12:51:44 AM
As you well know that entry could be written at any time. If she is involved and CC was washed after she heard the sniffer dogs were on their way she is not going to use that date as the diary entry. Leaving a false trail which you may have heard before in criminal cases.
There are five calls involving Stuart Prior and Gerry. In each case the call was initiated by Stuart. They vary in length from 25 seconds (July 4th) to 7 mins 24 seconds (July 16th). The final call, lasting exactly 6 minutes, occurs on July 19th – just a day before Mark Harrison arrived in Praia da Luz and a day after Kate alleges she was told of the dogs on the recommendation of British police.
Coincidence? We'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 12:53:03 AM
Uh-huh,, so the 18th makes it 6 days. Don't you think you should get your facts straight before you go threatening people? That's what I done before I posted the date. I wasn't blatantly wrong after all, you were. No need to apologise, it's fine and dandy.  8(0(*

What comes first ... 12 ... or ... 18?

Kate washed the cuddle cat on the 12th.

She was told on the 18th that the dogs were coming ... and they subsequently arrived on the 30th.

Erse for elbow springs to mind for your post and the dates.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 31, 2019, 12:55:43 AM
When the police arrived the washing machine was full so washing was going on before their arrival and possibly other stuff. Diary entries can be written at any time.

Washing with normal detergent does not remove cadaver odour. As doctors, Kate & Gerry would have known that - so why do you find a normal domestic chore so suspicious? The clothing Eddie alerted to would have been washed several times between May & August 2007 imo.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 12:59:14 AM
When the police arrived the washing machine was full so washing was going on before their arrival and possibly other stuff. Diary entries can be written at any time.

So it is now a crime for Kate McCann to do a family wash now???

Diaries are private ... and this one was being kept for Madeleine and not to be read by strangers or sold to tabloids.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 02:03:49 AM
Washing with normal detergent does not remove cadaver odour. As doctors, Kate & Gerry would have known that - so why do you find a normal domestic chore so suspicious? The clothing Eddie alerted to would have been washed several times between May & August 2007 imo.
The car began to stink in July, the toy went in the wash in July and the dog was alerting to things McCann in July.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 02:07:18 AM
Washing with normal detergent does not remove cadaver odour. As doctors, Kate & Gerry would have known that - so why do you find a normal domestic chore so suspicious? The clothing Eddie alerted to would have been washed several times between May & August 2007 imo.

Well that may explain the unreliable dogs comment  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 02:12:02 AM
What comes first ... 12 ... or ... 18?

Kate washed the cuddle cat on the 12th.

She was told on the 18th that the dogs were coming ... and they subsequently arrived on the 30th.

Erse for elbow springs to mind for your post and the dates.
But whose erse are you talking about, and whose elbow? 
In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you

Your correct the 12th comes first, and the 18th comes 6 days later. So why are you claiming I'm making posts that are blatantly wrong when they are in fact blatantly right? You're blatantly wrong on this occasion.
If you're going to go to the bully, make sure you get it right next time.  8(0(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 31, 2019, 02:15:11 AM
The car began to stink in July, the toy went in the wash in July and the dog was alerting to things McCann in July.
Coincidence? I don't think so.

You have no evidence, let alone proof, that any cadaver was moved by anyone, let alone the McCanns.
 It would be good to hear your explanation as to how an experience detective could deduce death & cadaver concealment of a corpse occurred based on uncorroborated dog alerts & forensics in various locations which didn't pertain to Madeleine.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 02:17:21 AM
Madeleine was part of their family and they are always first suspects in these cases.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 02:20:31 AM
You have no evidence, let alone proof, that any cadaver was moved by anyone, let alone the McCanns.
 It would be good to hear your explanation as to how an experience detective could deduce death & cadaver concealment of a corpse occurred based on uncorroborated dog alerts & forensics in various locations which didn't pertain to Madeleine.
Wait a minute, (thanks for saving my post btw). The post begins you don't know, don't you think that indicates there is no evidence, no proof. Is there something wrong in debating simple hypothesis on here? There was some circumstantial evidence in my post that you appear to have ignored.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 31, 2019, 02:22:13 AM
There are five calls involving Stuart Prior and Gerry. In each case the call was initiated by Stuart. They vary in length from 25 seconds (July 4th) to 7 mins 24 seconds (July 16th). The final call, lasting exactly 6 minutes, occurs on July 19th – just a day before Mark Harrison arrived in Praia da Luz and a day after Kate alleges she was told of the dogs on the recommendation of British police.
Coincidence? We'll have to wait and see.

Have you not considered that those phone calls may have also related to the face-to-face confrontation on 11th July 2007 between Murat & 3 of the Tapas 9 who'd returned to Portugal for that purpose on request?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 02:27:37 AM
Have you not considered that those phone calls may have also related to the face-to-face confrontation on 11th July 2007 between Murat & 3 of the Tapas 9 who'd returned to Portugal for that purpose on request?
I can't say I have. The calls began on the July 3rd well before that, and ended the day before Mark Harrison arrived, Jul 19th.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 31, 2019, 02:28:00 AM
Wait a minute, (thanks for saving my post btw). The post begins you don't know, don't you think that indicates there is no evidence, no proof. Is there something wrong in debating simple hypothesis on here? There was some circumstantial evidence in my post that you appear to have ignored.

Eddie did not alert to the boot area of the Scenic so where is the evidence the foul smell was anything other than decaying meat juices as described by the witnesses?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 02:34:52 AM
Eddie did not alert to the boot area of the Scenic so where is the evidence the foul smell was anything other than decaying meat juices as described by the witnesses?
When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car.
The smell of a dead body would definitely fall into the strange odour category imo. Don't you think.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A-J-CAMERON.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: misty on March 31, 2019, 02:58:41 AM
When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car.
The smell of a dead body would definitely fall into the strange odour category imo. Don't you think.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A-J-CAMERON.htm

Eddie did not alert at the air vents in the boot lid of the scenic so the strange odour could not have been from a cadaver - unless you are of the opinion the dog failed on that occasion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 03:23:54 AM
But whose erse are you talking about, and whose elbow? 
In the interests of accuracy NB your posts claiming a six day interval is blatantly wrong ... please amend them and remember not to repeat the error in future posts.  Thank you

Your correct the 12th comes first, and the 18th comes 6 days later. So why are you claiming I'm making posts that are blatantly wrong when they are in fact blatantly right? You're blatantly wrong on this occasion.
If you're going to go to the bully, make sure you get it right next time.  8(0(*
This is becoming tedious.

The claim is that Kate washed the cuddle cat when she heard the British dogs were coming.

Kate wrote in her diary that she washed the cuddle cat on the 12th.

She did not know until the 18th that the dogs were to be deployed.

Put simply ... Kate did not know when she washed the cuddle cat that the dogs were to be deployed.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 31, 2019, 06:53:16 AM
When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car.
The smell of a dead body would definitely fall into the strange odour category imo. Don't you think.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A-J-CAMERON.htm
How often would blood leak out of a plastic shopping bag?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 09:02:27 AM
How often would blood leak out of a plastic shopping bag?
Not often ... but many years ago I dropped in on a friend on my way home from shopping and was mortified when I picked up my carrier bag prior to leaving to see a huge stain on her carpet where blood had leaked through.
In those days meat was wrapped in paper and could be sodden through by the time it was being unpacked at home.

It does happen.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 09:22:07 AM
As you well know that entry could be written at any time. If she is involved and CC was washed after she heard the sniffer dogs were on their way she is not going to use that date as the diary entry. Leaving a false trail which you may have heard before in criminal cases.
Why admit to washing it at all?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 09:50:57 AM
Eddie did not alert at the air vents in the boot lid of the scenic so the strange odour could not have been from a cadaver - unless you are of the opinion the dog failed on that occasion.
I wonder why the doors and boots of all cars in the line up were not left open to allow the dogs to get in and sniff?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 10:03:30 AM
Eddie did not alert at the air vents in the boot lid of the scenic so the strange odour could not have been from a cadaver - unless you are of the opinion the dog failed on that occasion.
Martin Grime seen all that but he still said in his professional opinion the alerts by Eddie were for dead body scent contaminant. I'm naive about cadaver dog handling and for that reason I've always stuck to what the experts tell me. If an alive Madeleine McCann ever turns up, the cadaver dog experts here on this forum, will be proven correct and it won't look too good for Martin Grime imo. That's the way I see it.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 10:18:08 AM
This is becoming tedious.

The claim is that Kate washed the cuddle cat when she heard the British dogs were coming.

Kate wrote in her diary that she washed the cuddle cat on the 12th.

She did not know until the 18th that the dogs were to be deployed.

Put simply ... Kate did not know when she washed the cuddle cat that the dogs were to be deployed.
How do you know Stuart Prior wasn't discussing the dogs during his five calls to Gerry between July 3rd and July 19th? Do you know what they were discussing?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 10:22:39 AM
How do you know Stuart Prior wasn't discussing the dogs during his five calls to Gerry between July 3rd and July 19th? Do you know what they were discussing?
Do you think he was tipping them off?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on March 31, 2019, 10:30:02 AM
Do you think he was tipping them off?
I prefer the term discussing developments with the family of a missing child. You can use tipping them off if you like.
It was the only five calls Start Prior ever made directly to Gerry. July 3rd to the day before Mark Harrison arrived and the day after Kate alleges she learnt of the dogs. I can't see it being anything else. Stuart Prior will know if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on March 31, 2019, 10:35:29 AM
Martin Grime seen all that but he still said in his professional opinion the alerts by Eddie were for dead body scent contaminant. I'm naive about cadaver dog handling and for that reason I've always stuck to what the experts tell me. If an alive Madeleine McCann ever turns up, the cadaver dog experts here on this forum, will be proven correct and it won't look too good for Martin Grime imo. That's the way I see it.

Grime never said that... Check again... He said were possibly to cadaver contaminant or suggestive of.. He never said in his opinion it was.... A common sceptic mistake.. You need to take careful note of what the experts, say
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 11:10:20 AM
Eddie did not alert at the air vents in the boot lid of the scenic so the strange odour could not have been from a cadaver - unless you are of the opinion the dog failed on that occasion.

Eddie went under the boot area and that is where hairs were found matching in colour to Madeleine. Eddie was chasing that strong scent all over the underground car park.


Reference objects
I received [obtained] information from the pillow-case SJM/1, the tops SJM2, 4 and 5, and the hairbrush SJM/36 belonging to Madeleine McCann or used by her.

A total number of twelve [12] hairs or hair fragments were recovered from the tops SJM/2, SJM/4 and SJM/5. All of these appeared to be hair and not down, being mainly blonde in colour.

Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 31, 2019, 11:35:31 AM
I prefer the term discussing developments with the family of a missing child. You can use tipping them off if you like.
It was the only five calls Start Prior ever made directly to Gerry. July 3rd to the day before Mark Harrison arrived and the day after Kate alleges she learnt of the dogs. I can't see it being anything else. Stuart Prior will know if I'm wrong.
The police could deliberately tip them off and in some cases it will entice the guilty to go and check the site where a body has been hidden.  The fact that Kate wrote in her diary she washed Cuddle Cat (CC) that note could have been interpreted as a sign CC was involved somehow.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 31, 2019, 11:39:01 AM
The police could deliberately tip them off and in some cases it will entice the guilty to go and check the site where a body has been hidden.  The fact that Kate wrote in her diary she washed Cuddle Cat (CC) that note could have been interpreted as a sign CC was involved somehow.

New headline for Sun newspaper - IT WAS CUDDLECAT WOT DONE IT 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 01:45:15 PM
Martin Grime seen all that but he still said in his professional opinion the alerts by Eddie were for dead body scent contaminant. I'm naive about cadaver dog handling and for that reason I've always stuck to what the experts tell me. If an alive Madeleine McCann ever turns up, the cadaver dog experts here on this forum, will be proven correct and it won't look too good for Martin Grime imo. That's the way I see it.
It will look exactly as it has always looked for Martin Grime ...It is absolutely nothing to do with Martin Grime that people have put their own spin on events which is at variance with what he said but is what they would like him to have said.
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dLt0fFdRuGIDEOXU2Pw_ynxM5M6F69q5K0vJgCtCidN2WxYv5Hp0PQ1mEtrFwWQDUN7QdA=s137)
Vis-à-vis the iconic image of Eddie baying with his head in the air which was put about as an alert to cadaver scent when in actual fact it was proven to be an alert to a key fob contaminated by cellular material from a forensically identified living person.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 31, 2019, 01:48:39 PM
I guess your superior East End of Glasgow Hunan intuition does also include a much superior sense of smell.
I've never had the ability to distinguish family member by smell.
Possibly they should not wash, change deodorants, perfume, after shave.etc.
I'm just a Lanarkshire lass ( the posh side of the.county), so freely admit that I don't have such an exceptional skill

The posh side of Lanarkshire?  Is there one?  Which side is it?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on March 31, 2019, 06:04:39 PM
Mrs Fenn would have had to go down stairs and enter the McCann's apartment and sight Madeleine crying to absolutely confirm it was Madeleine crying.   Anything else has a degree of assumption to it.

As Maddie admitted to crying I think the point is a mute one.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on March 31, 2019, 06:39:53 PM
As Maddie admitted to crying I think the point is a mute one.
If only.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 31, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
As Maddie admitted to crying I think the point is a mute one.
The night Madeleine admits to crying was on a different day altogether.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 07:25:38 PM
Yep the night Rachael stayed in and heard nothing next door. Mrs Fenn heard nothing that night either so both  witnesses closest to that apartment heard nothing on Wednesday night. That answers that question.

"She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 31, 2019, 08:24:47 PM
Yep the night Rachael stayed in and heard nothing next door. Mrs Fenn heard nothing that night either so both  witnesses closest to that apartment heard nothing on Wednesday night. That answers that question.

"She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Well if she was home that Wednesday night and heard nothing that is at least some good news.  Yet that is the night Madeleine says "Shaun and I were crying"  OK maybe Mrs Fenn dosed off and heard nothing.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on March 31, 2019, 08:33:14 PM
Well if she was home that Wednesday night and heard nothing that is at least some good news.  Yet that is the night Madeleine says "Shaun and I were crying"  OK maybe Mrs Fenn dosed off and heard nothing.

It was probably when they were being bathed or put down, as their parents hypothesised. I wonder where they were?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on March 31, 2019, 08:34:00 PM
Well if she was home that Wednesday night and heard nothing that is at least some good news.  Yet that is the night Madeleine says "Shaun and I were crying"  OK maybe Mrs Fenn dosed off and heard nothing.


Only hearsay.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2019, 09:35:35 AM
Excerpts from the courtcase.

https://omny.fm/shows/maddie/the-courtroom
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 10:22:05 AM
The latest podcast is now available; the courtroom.

But first there have been some developments. Mark Perlin us going to contact OG directly and offer his services. Mark the reporter will keep us informed of his progress.

The next subject is The Fund and the concerns about it's lack of the promised transparency. Metodo 3 are discussed next, including Marco's extraordinary claim that they had solved the case. .

The libel trial is then discussed, including Gerry McCann's misunderstanding of the archive dispatch and the differences between witness testimonies when asked about the same subject.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2019, 10:25:42 AM
The latest podcast is now available; the courtroom.

But first there have been some developments. Mark Perlin us going to contact OG directly and offer his services. Mark the reporter will keep us informed of his progress.

The next subject is The Fund and the concerns about it's lack of the promised transparency. Metodo 3 are discussed next, including Marco's extraordinary claim that they had solved the case. .

The libel trial is then discussed, including Gerry McCann's misunderstanding of the archive dispatch and the differences between witness testimonies when asked about the same subject.


Good synopsis G Unit.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 01, 2019, 10:25:52 AM
When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car.
The smell of a dead body would definitely fall into the strange odour category imo. Don't you think.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A-J-CAMERON.htm

The smell of a dead body would be over powering,  in the small space of a car you'd hardly be able to breathe.   Nothing like 'strange odour'.   IMO
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 01, 2019, 10:28:18 AM
The latest podcast is now available; the courtroom.

But first there have been some developments. Mark Perlin us going to contact OG directly and offer his services. Mark the reporter will keep us informed of his progress.

The next subject is The Fund and the concerns about it's lack of the promised transparency. Metodo 3 are discussed next, including Marco's extraordinary claim that they had solved the case. .

The libel trial is then discussed, including Gerry McCann's misunderstanding of the archive dispatch and the differences between witness testimonies when asked about the same subject.

I watched the interview with Mark Perlin,  he said when there is a mixture of three or more DNA's the computer can separate them out or similar words.   Now tell me please how can a computer separate them out if they don't know the DNA of the people involved in the mixture?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
The latest podcast is now available; the courtroom.

But first there have been some developments. Mark Perlin us going to contact OG directly and offer his services. Mark the reporter will keep us informed of his progress.

The next subject is The Fund and the concerns about it's lack of the promised transparency. Metodo 3 are discussed next, including Marco's extraordinary claim that they had solved the case. .

The libel trial is then discussed, including Gerry McCann's misunderstanding of the archive dispatch and the differences between witness testimonies when asked about the same subject.

I don't see that Gerry misunderstood  the significance if the archiving despatch... Explain how he did... You are continually promoting your opinions as fact... And not providing cites...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 10:36:00 AM
The latest podcast is now available; the courtroom.

But first there have been some developments. Mark Perlin us going to contact OG directly and offer his services. Mark the reporter will keep us informed of his progress.

The next subject is The Fund and the concerns about it's lack of the promised transparency. Metodo 3 are discussed next, including Marco's extraordinary claim that they had solved the case. .

The libel trial is then discussed, including Gerry McCann's misunderstanding of the archive dispatch and the differences between witness testimonies when asked about the same subject.

Why do they not contact the PJ as they have primacy in the case
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 10:40:35 AM
Mark Perlin said the data can be analysed to see if someone left their DNA... Someone needs to tell this expert about transference... Perlin should be promoting caution Re his alleged abilities... Not sensationalism
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 01, 2019, 10:52:43 AM
The smell of a dead body would be over powering,  in the small space of a car you'd hardly be able to breathe.   Nothing like 'strange odour'.   IMO
Not if the body had been frozen immediately after death.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on April 01, 2019, 10:58:00 AM
I don't see that Gerry misunderstood  the significance if the archiving despatch... Explain how he did... You are continually promoting your opinions as fact... And not providing cites...
Looks more like a synopsis of the podcast contents rather than the 'opinion' of the the poster.
Please refrain from misrepresentation.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 01, 2019, 11:05:43 AM
Not if the body had been frozen immediately after death.

In that heat it wouldn't have stayed frozen for long.   
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 01, 2019, 11:09:19 AM
I watched the interview with Mark Perlin,  he said when there is a mixture of three or more DNA's the computer can separate them out or similar words.   Now tell me please how can a computer separate them out if they don't know the DNA of the people involved in the mixture?

Perhaps a computer can seperate out mixtures of dna into individual's.Up to some one then to connect them to relevant persons?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 11:27:12 AM
I watched the interview with Mark Perlin,  he said when there is a mixture of three or more DNA's the computer can separate them out or similar words.   Now tell me please how can a computer separate them out if they don't know the DNA of the people involved in the mixture?

It's not the how that matters it's the if.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 11:31:47 AM
I don't see that Gerry misunderstood  the significance if the archiving despatch... Explain how he did... You are continually promoting your opinions as fact... And not providing cites...

I was repeating what was said in the podcast. My cite is the link to the podcast and if you listen to it there is an explanation given.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 11:35:49 AM
Why do they not contact the PJ as they have primacy in the case

The clients of the FSS were LP, not the PJ. The information needed was archived in the UK and withdrawn by persons unknown in 2012, I think it was. Was a copy of that information given to the PJ at any point?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 11:44:42 AM
Perhaps a computer can seperate out mixtures of dna into individual's.Up to some one then to connect them to relevant persons?

That is what Mark Perlib claims; that he can seperate mixed samples and show how nany contributors there really were and which alletes belong to which person. So he could say how many people were represented in the mixed sample from the boot and which markers belonged to each person. I don't know if that would shed any light on the case, but it could answer the question of whether Madeleine's DNA was in the boot of the car.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 01, 2019, 01:09:43 PM
That is what Mark Perlib claims; that he can seperate mixed samples and show how nany contributors there really were and which alletes belong to which person. So he could say how many people were represented in the mixed sample from the boot and which markers belonged to each person. I don't know if that would shed any light on the case, but it could answer the question of whether Madeleine's DNA was in the boot of the car.

Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 01:54:44 PM
That is what Mark Perlib claims; that he can seperate mixed samples and show how nany contributors there really were and which alletes belong to which person. So he could say how many people were represented in the mixed sample from the boot and which markers belonged to each person. I don't know if that would shed any light on the case, but it could answer the question of whether Madeleine's DNA was in the boot of the car.

I dont think it could...as misty says it could only make reference to known dna samples....i dont see how it could unravel an unknown profile from a mixture
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 01:55:28 PM
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

perhaps perlin hasnt expalined it very well
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2019, 02:15:52 PM
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 01, 2019, 02:31:34 PM
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.

Why has he said it would show whether maddies DNA was in the car when it wouldnt.... Would he not need both Kate and gerrys DNA for any meaningful analysis
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on April 01, 2019, 02:47:32 PM
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 03:46:53 AM
I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 02, 2019, 08:49:13 AM
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on April 02, 2019, 09:20:31 AM
The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO

Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 02, 2019, 09:38:58 AM
Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.



Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on April 02, 2019, 10:06:53 AM


Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   

Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 10:26:35 AM
Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))

Not really... It wouldn't prove anything
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2019, 10:33:58 AM
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 02, 2019, 10:34:58 AM
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

It could prove that the similarity to Madeleine’s DNA was simpl by chance and that there was nothing to put Madeleine in the car.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 02, 2019, 11:15:09 AM
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything
It could also prove the Portuguese police were not under so much pressure that they planted DNA evidence of a missing child who they had never met in their lives before, in the hire car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ri32SU2rE&t=193s
 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?

That would not prove Maddie had not been carried in the car
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 11:29:09 AM
It could also prove the Portuguese police were not under so much pressure that they planted DNA evidence of a missing child who they had never met in their lives before, in the hire car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ri32SU2rE&t=193s

Madeleines DNA could be all over the car... The dogs don't alert to dna
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Lace on April 02, 2019, 11:45:20 AM
It could prove that the similarity to Madeleine’s DNA was simpl by chance and that there was nothing to put Madeleine in the car.

How could it prove that?    All it will do is pick out the components that match Madeleine's DNA which has already been done,  which doesn't prove it was Madeleine's DNA as her components are not unique to her.   If they knew who was in the mix then they could find DNA for different people but as they don't know who these other contributors are then IMO it's impossible.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 02, 2019, 11:49:16 AM
Madeleines DNA could be all over the car... The dogs don't alert to dna
Exactly, I think that's the whole point, the only DNA which appears to match the child's from the car was picked up by a dog that only alerts to human blood, that makes the result so interesting.  Least it does for me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 11:50:35 AM
How could it prove that?    All it will do is pick out the components that match Madeleine's DNA which has already been done,  which doesn't prove it was Madeleine's DNA as her components are not unique to her.   If they knew who was in the mix then they could find DNA for different people but as they don't know who these other contributors are then IMO it's impossible.

I read on the news 9 site that Mark S contacted SY last year so nothing is happening
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 12:09:28 PM
The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO
If that was the case 3 contributors would result in nearer 60 alleles. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 12:12:10 PM


Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   
Not Madeleine's but the same as Madeleine's.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 12:13:40 PM
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything
The further analysis could eliminate Madeleine being in the hire car.  That would be the real advantage IMO.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
The further analysis could eliminate Madeleine being in the hire car.  That would be the real advantage.

Why would this one sample eliminate Maddie being in the car... There could be more DNA of Maddie in the car... The digs don't alert to dna
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 12:33:44 PM
Why would this one sample eliminate Maddie being in the car... There could be more DNA of Maddie in the car... The digs don't alert to dna
The odd bit of DNA could be in the car, but this sample was from underneath surface of the boot mat.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 02, 2019, 12:58:04 PM
The odd bit of DNA could be in the car, but this sample was from underneath surface of the boot mat.
What do you think is the significance of that.. None of it really signifies anything
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 02, 2019, 04:36:58 PM
What do you think is the significance of that.. None of it really signifies anything
Get the evidence first and work from that.  Run the test first.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
The people who believe the earth is flat are organising a Flat Earth Cruise to Antarctica sometime in 2020 in the hope of substantiating their beliefs.  Confident that the ice wall will stop them sailing over the edge perhaps?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-earth-cruise-nautical-navigation

The McCann conspiracy theorists pin their hopes on one guru after another the latest one promoting podcasts of every theory I've ever heard of.
The only thing more ludicrous than the current DNA speculation was the 100% claim which some diehards hold dear to their hearts  💖

At least the Flat Earthers don't intentionally cause harm or distress to anyone else with their beliefs.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on April 02, 2019, 08:15:11 PM
The people who believe the earth is flat are organising a Flat Earth Cruise to Antarctica sometime in 2020 in the hope of substantiating their beliefs.  Confident that the ice wall will stop them sailing over the edge perhaps?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/jan/09/flat-earth-cruise-nautical-navigation

The McCann conspiracy theorists pin their hopes on one guru after another the latest one promoting podcasts of every theory I've ever heard of.
The only thing more ludicrous than the current DNA speculation was the 100% claim which some diehards hold dear to their hearts  💖

At least the Flat Earthers don't intentionally cause harm or distress to anyone else with their beliefs.


Indded they don't
I'm not too sure of how brave they are or how deluded they are.
.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 04, 2019, 02:53:46 PM
There's been no libel actions raised against Mark Saunokonoko as far as I'm aware. I wonder if any will be raised after his next podcast that covers the deleted telephone calls. Just another example of typical parental behaviour when they claim they discover their child has been abducted by paedophiles.  &%%6
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 02:55:20 PM
There's been no libel actions raised against Mark Saunokonoko as far as I'm aware. I wonder if any will be raised after his next podcast that covers the deleted telephone calls. Just another example of typical parental behaviour when they claim they discover their child has been abducted by paedophiles.  &%%6

I don't think there is typical behaviour in these circumstances... Everyone's, different
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 04, 2019, 02:58:06 PM
I don't think there is typical behaviour in these circumstances... Everyone's, different
I tend to agree deleting telephone calls from a cell phone would not be what I would consider typical parental behaviour from parents who believed their daughter had just been abducted by a gang of paedophiles.  &%%6
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 03:05:31 PM
I tend to agree deleting telephone calls from a cell phone would not be what I would consider typical parental behaviour from parents who believed their daughter had just been abducted by a gang of paedophiles.  &%%6

Depends when they were deleted... It's the sort of thing I might do... If I'm sitting around waiting it would prove a distraction... We all have our opinions.. The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 04, 2019, 03:10:53 PM
Depends when they were deleted... It's the sort of thing I might do... If I'm sitting around waiting it would prove a distraction... We all have our opinions.. The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it
Mark Saunokonoko is going to be kind enough to explain it all to his listeners in detail on Monday.  I don't know what it is that motivates you to claim you might delete your telephone calls after learning your daughter had been abducted but it certainly does prove that we are all different.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 03:34:43 PM
Mark Saunokonoko is going to be kind enough to explain it all to his listeners in detail on Monday.  I don't know what it is that motivates you to claim you might delete your telephone calls after learning your daughter had been abducted but it certainly does prove that we are all different.
I eas, already aware we are all different... Many fund jogging strange... I dont
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 04, 2019, 03:38:06 PM
I eas, already aware we are all different... Many fund jogging strange... I dont
Are you seriously suggesting you would have found them going jogging before they gave the police their first interview normal? 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 03:41:59 PM
Depends when they were deleted... It's the sort of thing I might do... If I'm sitting around waiting it would prove a distraction... We all have our opinions.. The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it

I watched a programme about Russell Bishop the other evening. He murdered two little girls in 1986 and was tried and acquitted in 1987 and it took until 2018 to finally convict him. Following his acquittal the parents of the girls and the police were horrified and angry when he campaigned for justice alongside them because they were convinced of his guilt. The theory was that he did it in order to convince people of his innocence.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 03:56:12 PM
I watched a programme about Russell Bishop the other evening. He murdered two little girls in 1986 and was tried and acquitted in 1987 and it took until 2018 to finally convict him. Following his acquittal the parents of the girls and the police were horrified and angry when he campaigned for justice alongside them because they were convinced of his guilt. The theory was that he did it in order to convince people of his innocence.

You need to show he actively campaigned to have the case re-opened when the police had closed it and were no longer investigating.   I doubt you can
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 03:59:42 PM
Are you seriously suggesting you would have found them going jogging before they gave the police their first interview normal?
Did they go jogging beforevtheir first interview... If I'm going to accuse someone if a crime I want some real evidence
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 04, 2019, 05:06:57 PM
Did they go jogging beforevtheir first interview... If I'm going to accuse someone if a crime I want some real evidence
Did they delete their telephone calls before their first interview and why did they delete them at all is the relevant questions, I don't know what jogging has to do with it. There are no podcasts about jogging in the pipeline as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 05:29:51 PM
Did they delete their telephone calls before their first interview and why did they delete them at all is the relevant questions, I don't know what jogging has to do with it. There are no podcasts about jogging in the pipeline as far as I'm aware.
Al phone calls are recorded by the network provider so deletion makes no difference
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 04, 2019, 06:41:55 PM
Are you seriously suggesting you would have found them going jogging before they gave the police their first interview normal?
Who went jogging before their first police interview?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 06:48:45 PM
You need to show he actively campaigned to have the case re-opened when the police had closed it and were no longer investigating.   I doubt you can

Were the programme makers lyimg to me? The little devils.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 06:51:35 PM
Were the programme makers lyimg to me? The little devils.

So you can't provide a cite as expected
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 06:55:27 PM
Al phone calls are recorded by the network provider so deletion makes no difference

I have deleted my messages but never, ever, my call history.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 06:58:19 PM
I have deleted my messages but never, ever, my call history.

the network provider has all the call history..it cant be hidden
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
Mark Saunokonoko is going to be kind enough to explain it all to his listeners in detail on Monday.  I don't know what it is that motivates you to claim you might delete your telephone calls after learning your daughter had been abducted but it certainly does prove that we are all different.
what motivates me is understanding the truth
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 07:06:37 PM
the network provider has all the call history..it cant be hidden

Did the McCanns know that?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 04, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
Were the programme makers lyimg to me? The little devils.
What exactly did the programme say?  Please give more detail and a cite if possible.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 07:33:01 PM
Did the McCanns know that?

You are the one making the accusation is suspicious... I don't think it is
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 04, 2019, 07:33:57 PM
What exactly did the programme say?  Please give more detail and a cite if possible.

I think gunit simply thinks we should take her word for it
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 10:29:50 PM
What exactly did the programme say?  Please give more detail and a cite if possible.

Perhaps you can still see it, I don't know. I don't remember the exact words, but I saw the disgust and pain on the faces of the family and the police when they reconstructed it.

Babes in the Wood – ITV
Thu, March 28 21:00

Read more at https://www.whatsontv.co.uk/events/babes-wood-itv-28-mar-19/#wgqRxxdidpqICfwW.99
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 04, 2019, 10:56:04 PM
Perhaps you can still see it, I don't know. I don't remember the exact words, but I saw the disgust and pain on the faces of the family and the police when they reconstructed it.

Babes in the Wood – ITV
Thu, March 28 21:00

Read more at https://www.whatsontv.co.uk/events/babes-wood-itv-28-mar-19/#wgqRxxdidpqICfwW.99
Reconstructed what?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 04, 2019, 11:34:56 PM
I watched a programme about Russell Bishop the other evening. He murdered two little girls in 1986 and was tried and acquitted in 1987 and it took until 2018 to finally convict him. Following his acquittal the parents of the girls and the police were horrified and angry when he campaigned for justice alongside them because they were convinced of his guilt. The theory was that he did it in order to convince people of his innocence.

Towards the bottom of this link a photograph of Russell Bishop handing out a flier appealing for information in relation to the Hadaway/Fellowes murder three years after his acquittal in his first trial.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6478641/Babes-Wood-killer-Russell-Bishop-guilty-1986-murders-two-nine-year-old-girls.html
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 04, 2019, 11:42:16 PM
Towards the bottom of this link a photograph of Russell Bishop handing out a flier appealing for information in relation to the Hadaway/Fellowes murder three years after his acquittal in his first trial.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6478641/Babes-Wood-killer-Russell-Bishop-guilty-1986-murders-two-nine-year-old-girls.html
A bit like Ian Huntley then.  Nice that you and G-Unit are comparing the behaviour of the McCanns to a convicted paedophile and child murderer though, very reasonable I’m sure.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 11:44:15 PM
Towards the bottom of this link a photograph of Russell Bishop handing out a flier appealing for information in relation to the Hadaway/Fellowes murder three years after his acquittal in his first trial.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6478641/Babes-Wood-killer-Russell-Bishop-guilty-1986-murders-two-nine-year-old-girls.html

Thanks for that, Faith.  *&(+(+
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on April 04, 2019, 11:45:51 PM
A bit like Ian Huntley then.  Nice that you and G-Unit are comparing the behaviour of the McCanns to a convicted paedophile and child murderer though, very reasonable I’m sure.


Desperation does spring to mind.
How low can some go.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 04, 2019, 11:49:58 PM
A bit like Ian Huntley then.  Nice that you and G-Unit are comparing the behaviour of the McCanns to a convicted paedophile and child murderer though, very reasonable I’m sure.

No-ones comparing them, just demonstrating that campaigning proves nothing.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on April 04, 2019, 11:52:44 PM
No-ones comparing them, just demonstrating that campaigning proves nothing.

And why do you believe that Madeleine's parents campaigned for the investigation into her disappearance to be reopened?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 04, 2019, 11:56:49 PM

Desperation does spring to mind.
How low can some go.

As low as the above it seems.

We are told constantly that if the parents were guilty why did they keep appealing for a review. Bishop was guilty but appealed for information nonetheless even though he could easily just have slipped back into oblivion. Why do you think he did that ?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 12:09:11 AM
As low as the above it seems.

We are told constantly that if the parents were guilty why did they keep appealing for a review. Bishop was guilty but appealed for information nonetheless even though he could easily just have slipped back into oblivion. Why do you think he did that ?
Because he was a psychopath like Ian Huntley, who got a thrill out of drawing attention to himself and his crimes.  IMO.  Why do you think?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 05, 2019, 12:09:38 AM
I thought this thread was about podcasts ... silly me
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
No-ones comparing them, just demonstrating that campaigning proves nothing.
You are looking at the behaviour of a paedophile and child murderer and taking it as evidence that the McCanns may also have behaved similarly, just how appropriate is that really?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 12:13:21 AM
I thought this thread was about podcasts ... silly me
Wrong, like all threads it’s about slagging off the parents, it always comes to that sooner or later.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 05, 2019, 08:36:17 AM
Wrong, like all threads it’s about slagging off the parents, it always comes to that sooner or later.

But there appears at attempts to slag off posters in some thread.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 08:45:02 AM
And why do you believe that Madeleine's parents campaigned for the investigation into her disappearance to be reopened?

They didn't campaign for anything to be reopened. They campaigned for a review to be carried out.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Erngath on April 05, 2019, 09:04:45 AM
They didn't campaign for anything to be reopened. They campaigned for a review to be carried out.

And that review led to the investigation being reopened.
Why did they campaign for the review?
Don't you find it strange that they would do so if they were complicit in Madeleine's disappearance?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 09:16:35 AM
You are looking at the behaviour of a paedophile and child murderer and taking it as evidence that the McCanns may also have behaved similarly, just how appropriate is that really?

A statement was made which I refuted, that's all. Whether people campaign or not tells us nothing.

snip/
"The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg518829#msg518829


Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 10:27:31 AM
A statement was made which I refuted, that's all. Whether people campaign or not tells us nothing.

snip/
"The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg518829#msg518829
It's a statement that makes a good PR slogan in their defence.
We may never know who was responsible for the idea of campaigning to reopen the investigation imo. But I'd have to see proof before I'll believe it was originally the parent's idea. They surrounded themselves with a very slick PR team who were all doing very nicely from campaigning since Madeleine's disappearance. What were the parents going to say if one of this PR team suggested, they campaign for a reinvestigation.? How would it have looked if they had rejected the idea?

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 05, 2019, 10:37:59 AM
Al phone calls are recorded by the network provider so deletion makes no difference
As police require legal authorisation to obtain phone records in Portugal, of course deletion makes a difference.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 10:40:26 AM
A statement was made which I refuted, that's all. Whether people campaign or not tells us nothing.

snip/
"The mccabbs have driven forward the reinvestigation of the case.  .that doesn't sound like someone who was guilty and has got away with it"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10605.msg518829#msg518829
Of course it tells us something but you refuse to listen... You still haven't provided details of the claim you made to support your argument. ...I doubt you can
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
Of course it tells us something but you refuse to listen... You still haven't provided details of the claim you made to support your argument. ...I doubt you can
When you employ a guy to handle your PR that will quite clearly defend anyone, regardless of their guilt, it's for you to provide details of why anyone should believe a word him and his clients say?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuUX6fsPVg&t=326s
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
When you employ a guy to handle your PR that will quite clearly defend anyone, regardless of their guilt, it's for you to provide details of why anyone should believe a word him and his clients say?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuUX6fsPVg&t=326s

My belief in the mccanns innocence is based on many things... Everything I've read and seen leads me to believe they are innocent..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 11:13:53 AM
My belief in the mccanns innocence is based on many things... Everything I've read and seen leads me to believe they are innocent..
Is their use of Clarence Mitchell to handle their PR lead one of those many things that leads you to that belief?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 11:14:36 AM
Is their use of Clarence Mitchell to handle their PR lead one of those many things that leads you to that belief?

No
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 05, 2019, 11:15:51 AM
They didn't campaign for anything to be reopened. They campaigned for a review to be carried out.

They campaigned to get their daughter back ... it is a shame that normal procedural steps taken by her parents on Madeleine's behalf have entered the lexicon as discussed on another thread.

One wonders if Mark Saunokonoko's 'eagerly awaited' by some podcast ... will diversify into an investigation of criminals making phonecalls in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.
Or does he think the McCann's and their friends were the only ones using their phones to contact relatives at home with the devastating news of what had happened and clearing memories to enable receipt of important in coming calls?

I think this is make or break time for Saunokonoko ... is he really an investigative journalist ... or is he another run of the mill McCann troll with a more sophisticated method of delivery?
And who really listens to his podcasts anyway ... apart from the already converted?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 11:16:09 AM
No
Fair enough. Can you tell me what the watched means below my avatar Davel?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 11:16:43 AM
And that review led to the investigation being reopened.
Why did they campaign for the review?
Don't you find it strange that they would do so if they were complicit in Madeleine's disappearance?

They said a review would help find Madeleine, but I don't know why they thought it would.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 11:20:17 AM
Can anyone tell me what the green "watched" sign means under my avatar please?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 11:21:10 AM
Fair enough. Can you tell me what the watched means below my avatar Davel?

It's not important
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 11:22:39 AM
It's not important
Could you tell me what it means though Davel and let me decide what's important. We're all different remember, what's not important to you, might be to me.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 11:23:37 AM
As police require legal authorisation to obtain phone records in Portugal, of course deletion makes a difference.

As does getting hold of a couple of what could be seen as burner phones.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 05, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
Can anyone tell me what the green "watched" sign means under my avatar please?
It means you have been given warning points, in this case it was an abusive post.
Next step is moderated then suspended. 
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 05, 2019, 11:28:38 AM
As does getting hold of a couple of what could be seen as burner phones.
Those the phones delivered to the police station for them?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 11:33:16 AM
As police require legal authorisation to obtain phone records in Portugal, of course deletion makes a difference.

It's probably the same in the UK... But the police would also need a court order to seize their phones and examine them... So it wouldnt make a difference..

Where have all the phone records come from... Did the police get multiple court orders.. Perhaps you can explain... Or not
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 11:33:25 AM
It means you have been given warning points, in this case it was an abusive post.
Next step is moderated then suspended.
Thanks for that, but after checking my messages and finding nothing there of what you have just informed me of, I've decided it's all too sneaky for my liking. I'll take the next step if you don't mind. You are a moderator I believe, how do I go about requesting having my account suspended?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 11:34:43 AM
Can anyone tell me what the green "watched" sign means under my avatar please?

A moderator has decided that you've broken a forum rule and has issued a warning to you to behave. It appears on your profile too.

Warning Level: 10% (being watched)
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 05, 2019, 12:21:10 PM
They campaigned to get their daughter back ... it is a shame that normal procedural steps taken by her parents on Madeleine's behalf have entered the lexicon as discussed on another thread.

One wonders if Mark Saunokonoko's 'eagerly awaited' by some podcast ... will diversify into an investigation of criminals making phonecalls in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.
Or does he think the McCann's and their friends were the only ones using their phones to contact relatives at home with the devastating news of what had happened and clearing memories to enable receipt of important in coming calls?

I think this is make or break time for Saunokonoko ... is he really an investigative journalist ... or is he another run of the mill McCann troll with a more sophisticated method of delivery?
And who really listens to his podcasts anyway ... apart from the already converted?

He was top of the iTunes Charts so someone must have been listening to his podcast.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 05, 2019, 12:41:59 PM
They campaigned to get their daughter back ... it is a shame that normal procedural steps taken by her parents on Madeleine's behalf have entered the lexicon as discussed on another thread.

One wonders if Mark Saunokonoko's 'eagerly awaited' by some podcast ... will diversify into an investigation of criminals making phonecalls in Luz on the night Madeleine disappeared.
Or does he think the McCann's and their friends were the only ones using their phones to contact relatives at home with the devastating news of what had happened and clearing memories to enable receipt of important in coming calls?

I think this is make or break time for Saunokonoko ... is he really an investigative journalist ... or is he another run of the mill McCann troll with a more sophisticated method of delivery?
And who really listens to his podcasts anyway ... apart from the already converted?

Bolded bit,cite for  these said criminals please.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 12:43:33 PM
Of course it tells us something but you refuse to listen... You still haven't provided details of the claim you made to support your argument. ...I doubt you can

It tells us they wanted a review. It dosn't tell is why, that's a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 05, 2019, 12:45:11 PM
It's probably the same in the UK... But the police would also need a court order to seize their phones and examine them... So it wouldnt make a difference..

Where have all the phone records come from... Did the police get multiple court orders.. Perhaps you can explain... Or not
It's all in the PJ-Files, should you be interested enough to read them.

The phone records may be a step towards resolution in this case.  Who knows?

This is basic analysis.  The PJ had to request to get the land-line data for OC Reception, amongst many other records.

We live in the land of the free, not Disney make-believe.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
It's all in the PJ-Files, should you be interested enough to read them.

The phone records may be a step towards resolution in this case.  Who knows?

This is basic analysis.  The PJ had to request to get the land-line data for OC Reception, amongst many other records.

We live in the land of the free, not Disney make-believe.

As I said... The PJ would not be able to examine the mccanns phones without a court order... That applies to the UK to . So deleting phone calls really didn't make any difference
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on April 05, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
Just roll with it,we've all been there except some saintly one of course.

There aren't too many of those around here.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: barrier on April 05, 2019, 01:03:03 PM
As I said... The PJ would not be able to examine the mccanns phones without a court order... That applies to the UK to . So deleting phone calls really didn't make any difference

In the uk,if that's what you mean,police can download info from your phone without a warrant,also it seems deleted meassages can be gleamed.What happened to the phones from the Mccanns?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 01:04:57 PM
It's all in the PJ-Files, should you be interested enough to read them.

The phone records may be a step towards resolution in this case.  Who knows?

This is basic analysis.  The PJ had to request to get the land-line data for OC Reception, amongst many other records.

We live in the land of the free, not Disney make-believe.

Have you read the files... It looks like the PJ had the details of the mccanns from vodaphone.. So when did they get the court order..


The CD issued by Ministerio Publico de Portimao in July 2008, contains a great deal of information on the mobile calls made and received by the 'Tapas 9' but it is dispersed, difficult to retrieve and with important pages and charts missing. The main documents of interest from the CD are:

* A 3 page report by the Policia Judiaria (undated, but probably 4th May 2007) listing call records retrieved from the handsets of Mr and Mrs McCann
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 05, 2019, 01:46:36 PM
Have you read the files... It looks like the PJ had the details of the mccanns from vodaphone.. So when did they get the court order..


The CD issued by Ministerio Publico de Portimao in July 2008, contains a great deal of information on the mobile calls made and received by the 'Tapas 9' but it is dispersed, difficult to retrieve and with important pages and charts missing. The main documents of interest from the CD are:

* A 3 page report by the Policia Judiaria (undated, but probably 4th May 2007) listing call records retrieved from the handsets of Mr and Mrs McCann
Retrieved from the handsets, not from the service provider.  The nigh-well deleted handsets.

And Kate was not on vodaphone, or even Vodafone.  Was she?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 02:09:53 PM
Retrieved from the handsets, not from the service provider.  The nigh-well deleted handsets.

And Kate was not on vodaphone, or even Vodafone.  Was she?

The PJ did have scedules from vodaphone.. It's in the files..
Why did they not request details fron Kate's provider?... I'm also fairly sure, they could have retrieved the data from the handsets.  Perhaps another case, where they couldn't be bothered


* Schedules provided by Vodafone on 14th December 2007 covering a period from 29th April 2007 for Gerald McCann, David Payne, Rachael Mampilly, broken into four separate sections for incoming and outgoing telephone calls, incoming and outgoing SMS traffic
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 02:20:56 PM
As I said... The PJ would not be able to examine the mccanns phones without a court order... That applies to the UK to . So deleting phone calls really didn't make any difference

Kate McCann's phone showed details of 39 calls between 25th and 27th April 2007 and of 2 calls between 28th April and 3rd May 2007. Was she too busy having fun to use her phone? No, she had deleted the details of around 40 calls. Nobody knows why because she's never, afaik, been asked for or volinteered an explanation. In my opinion it's perfectly acceptable to wonder. Prompting people to wonder is the dofference it made.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 02:40:21 PM
Kate McCann's phone showed details of 39 calls between 25th and 27th April 2007 and of 2 calls between 28th April and 3rd May 2007. Was she too busy having fun to use her phone? No, she had deleted the details of around 40 calls. Nobody knows why because she's never, afaik, been asked for or volinteered an explanation. In my opinion it's perfectly acceptable to wonder. Prompting people to wonder is the dofference it made.

The point I am making is it makes no difference deleting calls as the information is still available
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 05, 2019, 02:47:24 PM
The PJ did have scedules from vodaphone.. It's in the files..
Why did they not request details fron Kate's provider?... I'm also fairly sure, they could have retrieved the data from the handsets.  Perhaps another case, where they couldn't be bothered


* Schedules provided by Vodafone on 14th December 2007 covering a period from 29th April 2007 for Gerald McCann, David Payne, Rachael Mampilly, broken into four separate sections for incoming and outgoing telephone calls, incoming and outgoing SMS traffic

 &%%6

They did request and they did obtain the traffic for Kate's service provider.  It's all in the PJ-Files.  Crikey, is there something difficult to understand that Kate was NOT on Vodafone?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 03:11:19 PM
The point I am making is it makes no difference deleting calls as the information is still available

That's interesting but unless it was known to those doing the deleting it's not enlightening.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 03:21:24 PM
That's interesting but unless it was known to those doing the deleting it's not enlightening.
So the suspicion from sceptics is that Kate deleted phone calls because they were incriminating... Yet the police have a record of all the deleted calls.. Did they find them incriminating...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on April 05, 2019, 04:31:52 PM
So the suspicion from sceptics is that Kate deleted phone calls because they were incriminating... Yet the police have a record of all the deleted calls.. Did they find them incriminating...
Why did she delete some phone calls, but leave others, has that ever been established?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 04:36:53 PM
Why did she delete some phone calls, but leave others, has that ever been established?

Did the ones she deleted have any significance...
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 05, 2019, 04:51:59 PM
Did the ones she deleted have any significance...

To her, perhaps.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on April 05, 2019, 05:03:22 PM
Did the ones she deleted have any significance...
How do I know? It wouldn't be particularly high on my list of priorities if my child had been apparently abducted.
1. Search around frantically
2. Get the police
3. Selectively delete phone log
4. Arrange search parties.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 05, 2019, 05:53:49 PM

"The f....ing b......s have taken her"  KM
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on April 05, 2019, 05:55:30 PM
"The f....ing b......s have taken her"  KM
Flying Burritos?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 06:31:59 PM
So the suspicion from sceptics is that Kate deleted phone calls because they were incriminating... Yet the police have a record of all the deleted calls.. Did they find them incriminating...

I don't know why she and her husband deleted rheir calls for that week. The reason could have been nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance. I can think of various different reasons and one of them is that it was conected.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
I don't know why she and her husband deleted rheir calls for that week. The reason could have been nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance. I can think of various different reasons and one of them is that it was conected.

Doesn't mean it was... And as the authorities have access to all deleted calls I can't see how deletion would have hidden anything
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 06:48:08 PM
Given that most sceptics here believe Madeleine died accidentally some time after 5.30pm on May 3rd 2007 and was disposed of between 10pm and 10.25 pm, which are the incriminating deleted calls that trouble them so and why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: The General on April 05, 2019, 07:07:31 PM
Doesn't mean it was... And as the authorities have access to all deleted calls I can't see how deletion would have hidden anything
It's the act that is inexplicable. I can't think of an innocuous, reasonable explanation why desperate parents would do that.
And it would not be beyond the reason of a diligent investigating officer to want to know the reason. Hypothetically speaking, when all options were on the table (and may be they still are) and the investigation was in its infancy, upon discovering this fact, I can see why it would arouse suspicion. Because it's inexplicable in its context.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 07:39:49 PM
Doesn't mean it was... And as the authorities have access to all deleted calls I can't see how deletion would have hidden anything

I don't know how to explain it to you.

What is significant is not what the authorities could or couldn't do, it's what those doing the deleting thought they could or could not do and more importantly perhaps, would or would not do.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 05, 2019, 08:17:37 PM
Anyone remember this Mark Saunokonoko thingy we're supposed to be discussing?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 08:27:17 PM
Given that most sceptics here believe Madeleine died accidentally some time after 5.30pm on May 3rd 2007 and was disposed of between 10pm and 10.25 pm, which are the incriminating deleted calls that trouble them so and why?
Bump.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on April 05, 2019, 08:49:12 PM
I don't know how to explain it to you.

What is significant is not what the authorities could or couldn't do, it's what those doing the deleting thought they could or could not do and more importantly perhaps, would or would not do.

Do you know that I love you to bits.  I simply don't know why to say to you, and so I cannot help you.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Eleanor on April 05, 2019, 09:45:25 PM
Then show people where, when and who I called a cow?
You can't reinstate a comment I never made, can you?

For anyone interested in joining and wishing to see site integrity, it's all there in the Moderation log.?
We're waiting!

La la la, I can't do that.  As no doubt you know

Oh and who is we?  We have all tried to accommodate you because you are at least interesting.  But do you seriously think that we don't know from whence you came?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 09:48:12 PM
It's the act that is inexplicable. I can't think of an innocuous, reasonable explanation why desperate parents would do that.
And it would not be beyond the reason of a diligent investigating officer to want to know the reason. Hypothetically speaking, when all options were on the table (and may be they still are) and the investigation was in its infancy, upon discovering this fact, I can see why it would arouse suspicion. Because it's inexplicable in its context.

It is not inexplicable.. It's, explicable.. It us either innocent IR not.. Were the deletions significant.. No so it's innocent
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: John on April 05, 2019, 09:50:16 PM
Right guys, I've removed the argumentative spam and reinstated CM as I can find no reference to Daisy.

Please keep posts civil if you can.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Cheeky Monkey on April 05, 2019, 10:08:59 PM
La la la, I can't do that.  As no doubt you know

Oh and who is we?  We have all tried to accommodate you because you are at least interesting.  But do you seriously think that we don't know from whence you came?
Couldn't Rob do it though? It was him who made the claim. He's gone hellava quiet this weather.
Wrongly accusing members of calling someone a cow is ever so accommodating? Whatever can I do to thank you?

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 05, 2019, 10:17:08 PM

I watched the video. Harrowing so it was.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 10:55:35 PM
The anomalies are very real, being wise after the fact has never been very clever.  I'm more interested in what happened with the crooked Spanish detectives though, that should make for interesting reading when the PJ get round to investigating it all.

Well they've had about 11 years.. No rush it seems... LOL.. when are you expecting some action.. LOL
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 10:56:55 PM
It is not inexplicable.. It's, explicable.. It us either innocent IR not.. Were the deletions significant.. No so it's innocent

Are you claiming that the deletions were investigated and were not found to be sugnificant?


Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Davel on April 05, 2019, 11:00:59 PM
Are you claiming that the deletions were investigated and were not found to be sugnificant?

I'm claiming there is no evidence the deletions were significant.. Not sugnificant..  Perhaps the pj were just to ineot to investigate them
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 05, 2019, 11:03:50 PM
Are you claiming that the deletions were investigated and were not found to be sugnificant?
Given that most sceptics here believe Madeleine died accidentally some time after 5.30pm on May 3rd 2007 and was disposed of between 10pm and 10.25 pm, which are the incriminating deleted calls that trouble them so and why?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 05, 2019, 11:07:13 PM
It's the act that is inexplicable. I can't think of an innocuous, reasonable explanation why desperate parents would do that.
And it would not be beyond the reason of a diligent investigating officer to want to know the reason. Hypothetically speaking, when all options were on the table (and may be they still are) and the investigation was in its infancy, upon discovering this fact, I can see why it would arouse suspicion. Because it's inexplicable in its context.
I wonder why the Judicial police totally ignored it then?  They didn't find it suspicious ... or they are not as skilled investigators as the internet sleuths who think they have all the answers?

Not to worry ... I'm sure all will be revealed on Monday when Mark broadcasts his latest

7 SEPTEMBER QUESTIONS TO KATE McCANN
11   Did you have a mobile phone with you at that moment?
22   Whom did you telephone after the discovery?
23   Did you call Sky News?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7542939.stm     See ... no worries there ... so why the fora song and dance about it?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 05, 2019, 11:28:11 PM
I'm claiming there is no evidence the deletions were significant.. Not sugnificant..  Perhaps the pj were just to ineot to investigate them

If there's no evidence one way or the other then you don't know if they were or not.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Angelo222 on April 06, 2019, 01:53:55 AM
Well they've had about 11 years.. No rush it seems... LOL.. when are you expecting some action.. LOL

It's coming just like BREXIT.    @)(++(*
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 06, 2019, 07:27:32 AM
Are you claiming that the deletions were investigated and were not found to be sugnificant?
Which specific deletions (ie date and time) do you think are possibly significant and how do they fit in with the theory of accidental death and body occultation on the night of the 3rd?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2019, 08:05:05 AM
Which specific deletions (ie date and time) do you think are possibly significant and how do they fit in with the theory of accidental death and body occultation on the night of the 3rd?

It's not the individual calls, it's the decision to delete them which is puzzling.

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Brietta on April 06, 2019, 09:24:34 AM
As we embark on anticipating yet another 'investigative questioning' of the McCanns and their friends via the podcast wheeze this time allegedly the resurrection of ... phone deletions and their significance ...

With reference to https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm it seems that the Judicial police had not the slightest interest in deletions of any kind from anyone's phone.
Their interest as far as the investigation was concerned was in the location and therefore as a tracking device.

It is very likely this is the sort of analysis which brought the latest arguidos in Madeleine's case to the attention of Scotland Yard
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2019, 09:37:31 AM
As we embark on anticipating yet another 'investigative questioning' of the McCanns and their friends via the podcast wheeze this time allegedly the resurrection of ... phone deletions and their significance ...

With reference to https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PHONE_TEXTS.htm it seems that the Judicial police had not the slightest interest in deletions of any kind from anyone's phone.
Their interest as far as the investigation was concerned was in the location and therefore as a tracking device.

It is very likely this is the sort of analysis which brought the latest arguidos in Madeleine's case to the attention of Scotland Yard

Are there some new ones, or are they ex-arguidos?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 06, 2019, 01:52:34 PM
If you study cellphones in the Luz area on 3 May 2007, you come to an excruciatingly simple conclusion.

They divide Luz into west Luz and east Luz, nothing more.

What is the importance?   &%%6 Lots.

Known phone calls locate Gerry and Kate in east Luz.  Tannerman was in east Luz.  Smithman on the other hand was in west Luz.

One ex-arguido lived in west Luz at the time.  Phone calls might actually clear him of involvement.

Another lived 'on the border', so I can't be sure whether his cellphone traffic would show up as east or west or indeed both.

Robert Murat claims he was in east Luz at the time.  Consequently, any cellphone traffic he had that night would have failed to rule him out.

Location information is an extremely crude tool.  Timing and deletions are much more informative.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 06, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
If you study cellphones in the Luz area on 3 May 2007, you come to an excruciatingly simple conclusion.

They divide Luz into west Luz and east Luz, nothing more.

What is the importance?   &%%6 Lots.

Known phone calls locate Gerry and Kate in east Luz.  Tannerman was in east Luz.  Smithman on the other hand was in west Luz.

One ex-arguido lived in west Luz at the time.  Phone calls might actually clear him of involvement.

Another lived 'on the border', so I can't be sure whether his cellphone traffic would show up as east or west or indeed both.

Robert Murat claims he was in east Luz at the time.  Consequently, any cellphone traffic he had that night would have failed to rule him out.

Location information is an extremely crude tool.  Timing and deletions are much more informative.


If Gerry, and his cellphone, had been in west Luz at about 10pm on the 3rd of May would police be able to tell using pings ?

Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: G-Unit on April 06, 2019, 02:50:42 PM
If you study cellphones in the Luz area on 3 May 2007, you come to an excruciatingly simple conclusion.

They divide Luz into west Luz and east Luz, nothing more.

What is the importance?   &%%6 Lots.

Known phone calls locate Gerry and Kate in east Luz.  Tannerman was in east Luz.  Smithman on the other hand was in west Luz.

One ex-arguido lived in west Luz at the time.  Phone calls might actually clear him of involvement.

Another lived 'on the border', so I can't be sure whether his cellphone traffic would show up as east or west or indeed both.

Robert Murat claims he was in east Luz at the time.  Consequently, any cellphone traffic he had that night would have failed to rule him out.

Location information is an extremely crude tool.  Timing and deletions are much more informative.

Was there any more interest in the number described as 'Irish', do you know?

3rd May

this same number (unknown user), at  21h01 and 21h16 also received two calls from an Irish number, 353872... (whose user can be determined if justified).
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm

There seemed to be three numbers interacting, but 'Irish' doesn't suggest any of the arguidos OG were unterested in..
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 06, 2019, 03:05:07 PM

If Gerry, and his cellphone, had been in west Luz at about 10pm on the 3rd of May would police be able to tell using pings ?
Not by what I understand as 'pings'.  I consider those to be signals between a mast and a cellphone, whereby the network establishes which cell the phone is in.  In the old days, we called these 'handshakes'.

There is nothing in the PJ-Files to suggest that such pings were requested or supplied, or indeed that the networks even recorded them.

It would take a phone call or SMS to locate a person's cellphone from the records.

Need to run.  There is a doggy prog that has just started on TV.

 &^&*%
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Faithlilly on April 06, 2019, 03:23:26 PM
Not by what I understand as 'pings'.  I consider those to be signals between a mast and a cellphone, whereby the network establishes which cell the phone is in.  In the old days, we called these 'handshakes'.

There is nothing in the PJ-Files to suggest that such pings were requested or supplied, or indeed that the networks even recorded them.

It would take a phone call or SMS to locate a person's cellphone from the records.

Need to run.  There is a doggy prog that has just started on TV.

 &^&*%

It would be interesting to know if the networks did record them backin 2007 and if OG or the PJ had requested them this time. Wasn’t there talk of phone records being requested?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on April 06, 2019, 05:22:28 PM
It's not the individual calls, it's the decision to delete them which is puzzling.
If the calls that were deleted were from days before Madeleine’s supposed accidental death what relevance could they possibly have to the disappearance?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 06, 2019, 06:16:59 PM
Tuesday 1 May 2007

"Kate McCanns mobile was next activated six times, in rapid fire, between 22.16 and 22.27, after she had returned to Apartment 5A after dinner. The antenna traffic proves that these calls were not made to any of the 'Tapas 9'."

"Mrs Fenn, the McCanns neighbour, reported that Madeleine had cried for her father between 22.30 and 23.45. The evidence shows that Kate McCann was in Apartment 5A 14 minutes before Madeleine started crying. Tuesday 1st May 2007 is the only night (except, of course, for Thursday 3rd May 2007) that either of the McCanns or any of their friends made calls after dinner."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2019, 06:21:48 PM

If Gerry, and his cellphone, had been in west Luz at about 10pm on the 3rd of May would police be able to tell using pings ?
The cell tower pings indicate where the phone is located, not the location of the owner of the phone.
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 06, 2019, 06:27:51 PM
Tuesday 1 May 2007

"Kate McCanns mobile was next activated six times, in rapid fire, between 22.16 and 22.27, after she had returned to Apartment 5A after dinner. The antenna traffic proves that these calls were not made to any of the 'Tapas 9'."

"Mrs Fenn, the McCanns neighbour, reported that Madeleine had cried for her father between 22.30 and 23.45. The evidence shows that Kate McCann was in Apartment 5A 14 minutes before Madeleine started crying. Tuesday 1st May 2007 is the only night (except, of course, for Thursday 3rd May 2007) that either of the McCanns or any of their friends made calls after dinner."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm
Wouldn't the phone number (identity of the person) being called be also be available on the phone call analysis?
Title: Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 06, 2019, 06:30:29 PM
As per every cell phone coverage