UK Justice Forum

Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Luke Mitchell and the murder of his teenage girfriend Jodi Jones. Case currently being reviewed by the SCCRC. Confidential Hotline No 07092 984231. => Topic started by: John on March 04, 2012, 03:27:54 AM

Title: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on March 04, 2012, 03:27:54 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/rMPNG.jpg)

Mitchell photographed on the day of Jodi's funeral
as he gave an interview to Sky's James Matthews.



I think that I will start this thread off since I am quite an expert on this case now.

Yes, I believe he is guilty in terms of the evidence against him but and there is a big
but for me, he could be innocent and the subject of an awful miscarriage.

Let me say this, if he is innocent, his brother and mother have made a complete pigs
ear of their evidence in court and have not helped Luke one bit by what they said.

There is also a second rider in that Luke gave evidence that he did not see his brother
Shane in the house that afternoon, could it be that maybe Shane was not there?

205
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Kevin Craigie on May 25, 2012, 08:56:30 PM
Definitely not guilty. The perpetrator was a strong male who was trying to duplicate The Black Dahlia murder. Lynda La Plante published a bestseller based on these murders called The Red Dahlia, which brought Criminology into the fictitious yet thoroughly researched  story. The perpetrator was more than likely local or had a local connection. He knew that secluded area, and the gap in the wall.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on May 25, 2012, 11:08:46 PM
So why do you think his brother failed to confirm his alibi if he was at home as he alleges?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Kevin Craigie on May 27, 2012, 02:33:59 PM
People usually lie to protect their own interests or the interests of others. If Luke Mitchells version is correct then either his brother has made a simple mistake or hiding something. However, if my memory serves me correctly the Brother gave quite a detailed account of what exactly he was doing at that time.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on May 27, 2012, 03:21:31 PM
People usually lie to protect their own interests or the interests of others. If Luke Mitchells version is correct then either his brother has made a simple mistake or hiding something. However, if my memory serves me correctly the Brother gave quite a detailed account of what exactly he was doing at that time.

There is definitely something amiss there and the prosecution took every opportunity to exploit it.  Corinne Mitchell went to great pains on Middleton's forum to explain the events which occurred that afternoon but Shane failed to support any of it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: ActualMat on May 27, 2012, 04:06:01 PM
Guilty. IMO.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: devils advocate on May 28, 2012, 01:33:49 PM
Something just does not sit right with me in this case and John is right about the testimony of the two sons which for some reason is at odds with reality.  I see that both Corinne and luke recently took lie detector tests and 'passed' them.  Maybe Shane should take one as well and then we will see how effective such tests are.

And while Sandra Lean is arranging it maybe she will arrange one for her co director at Wrongly Accused with one of the questions being "Did you set two fires in your home in Brae which resulted in the death of your baby daughter?"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on May 28, 2012, 01:48:24 PM
I have always said that two boys could not have been at home together for 45 mins and not know the other was there.  For some reason Shane failed to give Luke an alibi and that is extremely suspicious.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: devils advocate on May 28, 2012, 03:04:03 PM
I will agree that it looks bad but these things sometimes happen.  The bit i don't quite comprehend is if Luke made Shanes dinner as he and the mther allege then why did Shane not say so?????   8-)(--)
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Holly Goodhead on November 30, 2015, 11:40:17 AM
If LM is guilty as charged and the murder was pre-meditated he surely must have realised he would be suspect number 1?  He carried knives, JJ was murdered in an area the couple frequented and where he was due to meet her.  It is said LM is intelligent so would he be so stupid to carry out such an act knowing he would be suspect number 1? 

If it wasnt pre-mediated and instead driven by anger, a moment of madness, is there any evidence LM had anger management issues and/or a history of violence?  He had been dating JJ for 3/4 months and her mother had grounded her for smoking cannabis.  Is there any evidence Mrs Jones objected to JJ dating LM?  Is there any evidence LM was violent towards JJ?

The wiki page describes the murder as a "savage knife attack".  I cant help thinking about the case of Rachael Nickell although she was also sexually assaulted. 

 
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 16, 2018, 01:57:23 PM
I support Luke in his fight for justice. it is fantastic to see the news headlines today and know that he has an amazing team of people working so hard to clear his name

His day is coming!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 12:22:15 PM
I support Luke in his fight for justice. it is fantastic to see the news headlines today and know that he has an amazing team of people working so hard to clear his name

His day is coming!

Who is this "amazing team of people" to which you refer?

And what makes you think "his day is coming?"


Luke Mitchell appears to have similar traits to Jeremy Bamber, for example, unable to take responsibility for his actions and blames everyone else. Also referred to as blame shifting

When referring to Jodi Jones murder, 30 year old Luke Mitchell recently stated:

“It’s the story of my life really. I was always bullied as a kid - by my teachers, other schoolkids.

“I was always taught never throw the first punch. I’ve always been blamed for things I didn’t do. This situation is an escalated version of that https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732


"One of the diagnostic criteria in the ‘Psychopathy Checklist - Revised’ (PCLR) is ‘Failure to accept responsibility for own actions’. So yes, psychopaths blame other people for their own mistakes.

Psychopaths are grandiose or ‘superior’, lack empathy and have shallow emotions. They have no shame or remorse and are manipulative, pathological liars. They have no conscience (in other words no internal sense of right and wrong) and also lack self-insight. They see the people around them as objects. Put all these factors together and blaming others for their own actions is the easiest, most natural thing in the world.

Psychopaths rarely, if ever, take responsibility for their actions, even if they clearly made mistakes or their actions and decisions led to failures. But they go a few steps farther; they will not only blame others but also create “evidence” that others are to blame. This takes effort, but psychopaths easily integrate it into their game, seizing on opportunities to bring harm to others’ careers or professional standing https://www.quora.com/Do-psychopaths-tend-to-blame-other-people-for-their-own-mistakes
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
Who is this "amazing team of people" to which you refer?

And what makes you think "his day is coming?"


Luke Mitchell appears to have similar traits to Jeremy Bamber, for example, unable to take responsibility for his actions and blames everyone else. Also referred to as blame shifting

When referring to Jodi Jones murder, 30 year old Luke Mitchell recently stated:

“It’s the story of my life really. I was always bullied as a kid - by my teachers, other schoolkids.

“I was always taught never throw the first punch. I’ve always been blamed for things I didn’t do. This situation is an escalated version of that https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732


"One of the diagnostic criteria in the ‘Psychopathy Checklist - Revised’ (PCLR) is ‘Failure to accept responsibility for own actions’. So yes, psychopaths blame other people for their own mistakes.

Psychopaths are grandiose or ‘superior’, lack empathy and have shallow emotions. They have no shame or remorse and are manipulative, pathological liars. They have no conscience (in other words no internal sense of right and wrong) and also lack self-insight. They see the people around them as objects. Put all these factors together and blaming others for their own actions is the easiest, most natural thing in the world.

Psychopaths rarely, if ever, take responsibility for their actions, even if they clearly made mistakes or their actions and decisions led to failures. But they go a few steps farther; they will not only blame others but also create “evidence” that others are to blame. This takes effort, but psychopaths easily integrate it into their game, seizing on opportunities to bring harm to others’ careers or professional standing https://www.quora.com/Do-psychopaths-tend-to-blame-other-people-for-their-own-mistakes

Speaking in an interview with The Herald, he said:

“When the jury visited the crime scene, I was told ‘stay flat and don’t react’- which probably didn’t help in their eyes.”

When he was convicted, Mitchell claims an order was given by the judge, to not show emotion upon the verdict:

“I was in shock. The only reason I didn’t fall over was because I was gripping onto the railing in the dock so tightly
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 01:49:50 PM
Speaking in an interview with The Herald, he said:

“When the jury visited the crime scene, I was told ‘stay flat and don’t react’- which probably didn’t help in their eyes.”

When he was convicted, Mitchell claims an order was given by the judge, to not show emotion upon the verdict:

“I was in shock. The only reason I didn’t fall over was because I was gripping onto the railing in the dock so tightly

Luke Mitchell has always blamed something or someone for his lack of emotion.

It's a shame the journalist who carried out the interview didn't ask him how, if as he has claimed, 'an order was given by the judge to not show emotion' he was able to switch his emotion on and off  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 17, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
I support Luke in his fight for justice. it is fantastic to see the news headlines today and know that he has an amazing team of people working so hard to clear his name

His day is coming!

Agreed. I don't know who the rest of the team is made up of but I've always been impressed by Sandra Lean's dedication and how she conducts herself so it's nice to see something happening.

I've never been able to fully decide on guilt or innocence when it come's to Luke's case but I don't think the circumstances of his incarceration were fair and so he deserves a hearing, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 03:12:25 PM
Agreed. I don't know who the rest of the team is made up of but I've always been impressed by Sandra Lean's dedication and how she conducts herself so it's nice to see something happening.

I've never been able to fully decide on guilt or innocence when it come's to Luke's case but I don't think the circumstances of his incarceration were fair and so he deserves a hearing, in my opinion.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4792.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=595.msg429134#msg429134
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 17, 2018, 04:46:05 PM
I didn't see anything in those two threads to change my opinion of Sandra Lean, if that was your point.

I don't personally believe campaigning for someone who turned out to be guilty should be used as an argument for bad character.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 05:10:08 PM
I didn't see anything in those two threads to change my opinion of Sandra Lean, if that was your point.

I don't personally believe campaigning for someone who turned out to be guilty should be used as an argument for bad character.

 8@??)(


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=595.msg429131#msg429131

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 05:11:45 PM
I didn't see anything in those two threads to change my opinion of Sandra Lean, if that was your point.

I don't personally believe campaigning for someone who turned out to be guilty should be used as an argument for bad character.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/bbc-axes-biased-mitchell-documentary-1-1425550

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6634611.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 17, 2018, 05:28:47 PM
8@??)(


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=595.msg429131#msg429131

Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean by the applause... is it sarcastic?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 05:38:29 PM
Who is this "amazing team of people" to which you refer?

And what makes you think "his day is coming?"


Luke Mitchell appears to have similar traits to Jeremy Bamber, for example, unable to take responsibility for his actions and blames everyone else. Also referred to as blame shifting

When referring to Jodi Jones murder, 30 year old Luke Mitchell recently stated:

“It’s the story of my life really. I was always bullied as a kid - by my teachers, other schoolkids.

“I was always taught never throw the first punch. I’ve always been blamed for things I didn’t do. This situation is an escalated version of that
https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732


"One of the diagnostic criteria in the ‘Psychopathy Checklist - Revised’ (PCLR) is ‘Failure to accept responsibility for own actions’. So yes, psychopaths blame other people for their own mistakes.

Psychopaths are grandiose or ‘superior’, lack empathy and have shallow emotions. They have no shame or remorse and are manipulative, pathological liars. They have no conscience (in other words no internal sense of right and wrong) and also lack self-insight. They see the people around them as objects. Put all these factors together and blaming others for their own actions is the easiest, most natural thing in the world.

Psychopaths rarely, if ever, take responsibility for their actions, even if they clearly made mistakes or their actions and decisions led to failures. But they go a few steps farther; they will not only blame others but also create “evidence” that others are to blame. This takes effort, but psychopaths easily integrate it into their game, seizing on opportunities to bring harm to others’ careers or professional standing https://www.quora.com/Do-psychopaths-tend-to-blame-other-people-for-their-own-mistakes

"Sandra Lean says her book came about because she is driven by the need to know the right person is locked up.

THE heavy doors clanged shut behind Sandra Lean as she made her way inside a notorious young offenders' institution to meet one of Scotland's most infamous prisoners.

With piles of legal papers, transcripts, notes and scribbled questions in her arms, she sat down to look into convicted killer Luke Mitchell's face - and was troubled by what saw.

"I thought: 'Oh, he's just a bairn, he's just a laddie'," she recalls. "He looked so much younger, people have forgotten how young. But he is a strong lad with a brilliant sense of humour. One who still believes this is just one huge cock-up, that it's just a matter of time before it gets sorted out http://truthinjustice.org/no-smoke.htm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 06:43:55 PM
"Sandra Lean says her book came about because she is driven by the need to know the right person is locked up.

THE heavy doors clanged shut behind Sandra Lean as she made her way inside a notorious young offenders' institution to meet one of Scotland's most infamous prisoners.

With piles of legal papers, transcripts, notes and scribbled questions in her arms, she sat down to look into convicted killer Luke Mitchell's face - and was troubled by what saw.

"I thought: 'Oh, he's just a bairn, he's just a laddie'," she recalls. "He looked so much younger, people have forgotten how young. But he is a strong lad with a brilliant sense of humour. One who still believes this is just one huge cock-up, that it's just a matter of time before it gets sorted out http://truthinjustice.org/no-smoke.htm

The letter also addresses claims that Mitchell appeared cold and emotionless after the discovery of Jodi's body. He said a GP had prescribed tablets for anxiety and depression that are not recommended for children.https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13057041.Mitchell_tells_of_night_he_found_girlfriend_Jodi_dead/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 06:51:10 PM
The letter also addresses claims that Mitchell appeared cold and emotionless after the discovery of Jodi's body. He said a GP had prescribed tablets for anxiety and depression that are not recommended for children.https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13057041.Mitchell_tells_of_night_he_found_girlfriend_Jodi_dead/

The boyfriend of Jodi Jones, the Scottish schoolgirl found dead near her home, told a psychiatrist he was smoking the equivalent of 40 cannabis joints a day in the weeks leading up to the girl's death, a court heard yesterday.
Luke Mitchell, 16, who denies murdering the teenager, also said his consumption doubled after her death.
However, a police officer told the High Court in Edinburgh that he doubted whether even an adult could have taken that amount of cannabis and continued to function.

"It is a huge amount," said Dc Brian Melrose, 42, a drug squad officer. "I have never heard of that amount used by anyone I have spoken to in 19 years of police service."
The court heard that when police arrested Mitchell and charged him with murdering Jodi, 14, they found a piece of cannabis resin in his trousers weighing more than 97 grammes, and two smaller pieces weighing almost seven grammes. Mitchell said he had paid around £150 for it.
Dc Melrose told the court that that price would be "cheap", but "not without the bounds of possibility".
The detective added that a user might add 150mg or 200mg of cannabis resin to tobacco to make a reefer cigarette. Asked how many reefer cigarettes could have been made from Mitchell's cannabis, Dc Melrose said: "You are looking at nearly 500."
The officer said a drug user might smoke three or four, perhaps five, such joints a day.

Alan Turnbull QC, prosecuting, showed the officer a report which said that during an interview with a doctor Mitchell said he was using about two ounces of cannabis a week before Jodi died. Afterwards, it was more like four ounces a week.
Dc Melrose agreed that two ounces a week would cost around £90, and would make "something of the order of 300 reefer cigarettes".


Mitchell denies murdering Jodi, of Easthouses, Dalkeith, in woods near Roan's Dyke, on June 30, 2003 by hitting her and constricting her neck. He claims that at the time he was in, or near his home in Dalkeith, and that Jodi was murdered by a person, or persons, unknown.
He also denies being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin and possessing knives in public places
.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1480513/Boyfriend-in-Jodi-killing-case-smoked-40-joints-a-day.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 07:12:35 PM
Kara Van Nuil is adamant that her ex-boyfriend did kill Jodi, and also revealed she is terrified that Mitchell will attempt to track her down on his release.

The 24-year-old, who believes that her decision to end the relationship probably saved her life, has now moved away from Midlothian in an attempt to avoid being found.

Ms Van Nuil, who was 16 when she dated Mitchell, maintains that he pressed a blade to her neck during an Army Cadet Force platoon meeting.

With the other cadets enjoying a snack break outside the hut, Mitchell is said to have grabbed Ms Van Nuil from behind, turned her round and forced a penknife to her throat.

"There's not one part of me that thinks he isn't guilty," she said. "Because of the way he was with me that day, I don't have a doubt in my mind at all. It definitely was him.

"He is so strong and he can easily hold someone down like me. I'm tiny and I'm sure Jodi was the same. I had no power to fight back.

"He is a very disturbed boy," she continued. "He looked up to Marilyn Manson, who is strange himself. It was everything though, from the music to the drugs. He even urinated in bottles in his bedroom; who does that?

"He was chilled out, giggly and laid back one minute, obviously that was down to the stuff he was smoking, but then he'd turn weird. It was like he had a split personality."

It was not until Jodi's slaying that Ms Van Nuil, who is now settled with a new partner and pregnant with her second son, decided to tell her friends and family of the terrifying encounter.

Ms Van Nuil added: "I'm scared that he could get out and come and find me.

"There are a lot of people that don't like him and are scared because if he is freed there is a chance this could happen to some poor girl again. I think he is where he should be. https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/319784/Jodi-s-family-hit-back-over-killers-claims-of-innocence
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 07:19:33 PM
The letter also addresses claims that Mitchell appeared cold and emotionless after the discovery of Jodi's body. He said a GP had prescribed tablets for anxiety and depression that are not recommended for children.https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13057041.Mitchell_tells_of_night_he_found_girlfriend_Jodi_dead/

Detective Chief Superintendent Craig Dobbie believes he has the "why". Softly spoken and bespectacled, Dobbie was appointed head of the murder hunt after Jodi’s body was discovered in the woods near Roan’s Dyke, Dalkeith, hours after she met her death. He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence, finding himself up against a teenage suspect who showed immense cunning under the fiercest pressure.

In that time he had to think himself into the mind of Luke Mitchell. Today, in an exclusive interview, the senior investigating officer in the Jodi Jones case reveals his own thoughts on what happened at Roan’s Dyke on 30th June, 2003.

Dobbie’s theory, based on his own close scrutiny of the case and the facts as they emerged during Mitchell’s trial, is that the murderer was a violent fantasist who killed his girlfriend when she became upset after discovering he was two-timing her. He then mutilated her body to emulate the gruesome death of an actress, Elizabeth Short, known as the Black Dahlia. Mitchell’s hero, the controversial American rocker Marilyn Manson, has produced a series of paintings of Short’s body, which was cut in half, her face and breast slashed.

"One potential motive is the fantasy Luke had about what it would be like to kill someone and get away with it," said Dobbie. "He had said he could imagine himself killing someone and he knew how to. That’s verging on fantasy. He is exhibiting knowledge. And one influence could well have been Marilyn Manson’s depiction of the Black Dahlia murder. No-one can escape from the fact that there are glaring similarities between the dead bodies of Jodi Jones and Elizabeth Short as depicted in Marilyn Manson’s watercolours. He then has to have the opportunity, the catalyst."

That catalyst came, Dobbie believes, when Mitchell confessed he was planning a holiday with another girl. This led to the fatal confrontation between the teenage lovers in the woods.

But for Luke Mitchell life was much darker. Clues were emerging about just how dangerous he might be at a very young age. Born in July 1988, his parents Corinne and Philip split up when he was 11. He grew up under the care of his mother and she allowed him to do exactly as he pleased. He lived in a state of near squalor; keeping his own urine in bottles in his bedroom, rarely washing and wearing the same clothes for days on end. Left largely to his own devices he became defiant, violent and brooding with an unhealthy fascination with knives, the occult and drugs. He was first brought to the attention of the mental health profession aged just 11, following a fight at King’s Park Primary in Dalkeith. Although the incident was just a minor skirmish with another pupil, Mitchell’s attitude was sufficiently troublesome to warrant a referral to a school psychiatrist. However, there appears to have been little further action taken by the education authorities or his parents to curb his behaviour. When he was 12 he threatened his then girlfriend with a knife because she refused to have sex with him. The incidents went on. When he moved to St David’s High, a music teacher found him trying to throttle another pupil and he was sent to an educational psychologist. He refused the expert’s help. Instead Mitchell became a rebellious, mysterious teenager who was heavily into cannabis and supplied his Goth friends with the drug. He also appeared to have an unhealthy interest in the occult. The jotters at his Catholic school were daubed with Satanic slogans, and he wrote a school essay containing references to the devil. Yet teachers appeared to have little control over him and he would simply defy their instructions when it suited him. Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis. Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim. One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones. Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny. Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones. Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime." That conversation may have taken place at one of their favourite hideaways, an alcove off King’s Park, Dalkeith, known locally as the China Gardens. It was a place for teenagers to gather and smoke. They lit up a joint and sat alone until a friend joined them.

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 17, 2018, 10:56:52 PM
I've never been able to fully decide on guilt or innocence when it come's to Luke's case but I don't think the circumstances of his incarceration were fair and so he deserves a hearing, in my opinion.

Out of interest, how many "hearings" do you think a convicted murderer should have in order to satisfy those people who are undecided (or cannot decide one way or another) like yourself?

Many murder cases are based on circumstantial evidence. To what "circumstances" do you refer which "weren't fair?"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 08:12:37 AM
Who is this "amazing team of people" to which you refer?

And what makes you think "his day is coming?"


Luke Mitchell appears to have similar traits to Jeremy Bamber, for example, unable to take responsibility for his actions and blames everyone else. Also referred to as blame shifting

When referring to Jodi Jones murder, 30 year old Luke Mitchell recently stated:

It’s the story of my life really. I was always bullied as a kid - by my teachers, other schoolkids.

“I was always taught never throw the first punch. I’ve always been blamed for things I didn’t do. This situation is an escalated version of that
https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732


"One of the diagnostic criteria in the ‘Psychopathy Checklist - Revised’ (PCLR) is ‘Failure to accept responsibility for own actions’. So yes, psychopaths blame other people for their own mistakes.

Psychopaths are grandiose or ‘superior’, lack empathy and have shallow emotions. They have no shame or remorse and are manipulative, pathological liars. They have no conscience (in other words no internal sense of right and wrong) and also lack self-insight. They see the people around them as objects. Put all these factors together and blaming others for their own actions is the easiest, most natural thing in the world.

Psychopaths rarely, if ever, take responsibility for their actions, even if they clearly made mistakes or their actions and decisions led to failures. But they go a few steps farther; they will not only blame others but also create “evidence” that others are to blame. This takes effort, but psychopaths easily integrate it into their game, seizing on opportunities to bring harm to others’ careers or professional standing https://www.quora.com/Do-psychopaths-tend-to-blame-other-people-for-their-own-mistakes

"The fact the jury in the Jodi Jones murder trial was told Luke Mitchell had 20 bottles of urine in his bedroom did not amount to a miscarriage of justice.
The Appeal Court in Edinburgh has been told the judge's speech to jurors at Mitchell's trial ensured they were not influenced by the unconnected evidence.
The Crown also said transcripts from a police interview did not show he had been a "bullying" victim.

Mr Beckett also covered eight segments from a police interview with Mitchell that Mr Findlay raised objections about.
He argued that the dialogue, which included discussion of Mitchell's actions on the night Jodi was murdered, did not show signs of "pressure, trickery or bullying"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7247137.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 08:31:56 AM
I support Luke in his fight for justice. it is fantastic to see the news headlines today and know that he has an amazing team of people working so hard to clear his name

His day is coming!

I find Sandra Leans "conduct" disingenuous.

MOJO have recently publicised that they hope to have an application for appeal ready in 2019; hardly suggestive that Luke Mitchell's "day is coming." It's nothing more than an attention seeking publicity stunt!


Luke Mitchell has been found guilty of the "truly evil murder" of his 14-year-old girlfriend Jodi Jones.
The judge, Lord Nimmo Smith, told Mitchell he would face "detention without limit of time", for the murder.
The 16-year-old had applied a ligature around Jodi's arms, and struck her repeatedly on the head, mouth and body with a knife, the court had heard.
Lord Smith told Mitchell: "It lies beyond any skill of mind to look into the black depths of your mind.
"You have been convicted of a truly evil murder - one of the most appalling crimes that any of us can remember - and you will rightly be regarded as wicked.
"I have no idea what led you to do what you did.
"Maybe it was a desire for notoriety, to achieve something grotesque
.
The jury came to its majority verdict on the second day of deliberations at the High Court in Edinburgh
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481694/Luke-Mitchell-guilty-of-Jodi-murder.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 08:58:56 AM
I find Sandra Leans "conduct" disingenuous.

MOJO have recently publicised that they hope to have an application for appeal ready in 2019; hardly suggestive that Luke Mitchell's "day is coming." It's nothing more than an attention seeking publicity stunt!


Luke Mitchell has been found guilty of the "truly evil murder" of his 14-year-old girlfriend Jodi Jones.
The judge, Lord Nimmo Smith, told Mitchell he would face "detention without limit of time", for the murder.
The 16-year-old had applied a ligature around Jodi's arms, and struck her repeatedly on the head, mouth and body with a knife, the court had heard.
Lord Smith told Mitchell: "It lies beyond any skill of mind to look into the black depths of your mind.
"You have been convicted of a truly evil murder - one of the most appalling crimes that any of us can remember - and you will rightly be regarded as wicked.
"I have no idea what led you to do what you did.
"Maybe it was a desire for notoriety, to achieve something grotesque
.
The jury came to its majority verdict on the second day of deliberations at the High Court in Edinburgh
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481694/Luke-Mitchell-guilty-of-Jodi-murder.html

He's served 15 years of a 20 year sentence and claims "he'd rather stay in jail than admit his guilt" https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732

Who thinks he'll be released in 5 years time? I don't! He knows he has nothing to lose by maintaining innocence, like Jeremy Bamber, and most probably knows it's unlikely the authorities will release him after 20years.


"1] On 21 January 2005 the appellant was after trial convicted of murder. On 11 February 2005 he was sentenced to detention without limit of time, a punishment part of twenty years being specified by the trial judge http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=b57d86a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 18, 2018, 09:28:55 AM
Out of interest, how many "hearings" do you think a convicted murderer should have in order to satisfy those people who are undecided (or cannot decide one way or another) like yourself?

I don't think that hearings should be based upon my opinion at all.

Quote
Many murder cases are based on circumstantial evidence. To what "circumstances" do you refer which "weren't fair?"

Mainly the behaviour of the police, the quality of the investigation and the fact that Luke was all but declared guilty by the press well before his trial.

Will you now answer my question about your applauding emoji?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
I don't think that hearings should be based upon my opinion at all.

Mainly the behaviour of the police, the quality of the investigation and the fact that Luke was all but declared guilty by the press well before his trial.


Can you be specific. What "behaviour" are you referring to? The same applies re "the quality of the investigation."

Maybe you should read up on Luke Mitchell's appeal judgements. He wasn't found guilty by the press or public he was found guilty by a jury.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 09:40:25 AM
Will you now answer my question about your applauding emoji?

This forum isn't about me and this thread is about Luke Mitchell! No idea what your apparent personal issues are with me but if you do have something you need to get off your chest, PM me
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 18, 2018, 09:47:09 AM
This forum isn't about me and this thread is about Luke Mitchell! No idea what your apparent personal issues are with me but if you do have something you need to get off your chest, PM me

Nope, no issues with you or anything to get off my chest. I won't ask again for you to explain the response as you're obviously unwilling/unable to. I just wanted to understand it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 09:49:16 AM
He's served 15 years of a 20 year sentence and claims "he'd rather stay in jail than admit his guilt" https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732

Who thinks he'll be released in 5 years time? I don't! He knows he has nothing to lose by maintaining innocence, like Jeremy Bamber, and most probably knows it's unlikely the authorities will release him after 20years.


"1] On 21 January 2005 the appellant was after trial convicted of murder. On 11 February 2005 he was sentenced to detention without limit of time, a punishment part of twenty years being specified by the trial judge http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=b57d86a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

"[19] The appellant, being then 19 years of age, was sentenced to be detained for life with a punishment part of 15 years. On an appeal by the Crown, this court likened the case to the medieval horrors of execution by burning and said that it was difficult to envisage more cruel or sadistic treatment of another human being. The court remarked that such cold-blooded conduct could only strike horror into the minds of right-minded members of the community. The court considered that the appellant's offending was not mitigated by his age. It substituted a punishment part of 20 years.
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 10:07:34 AM
Mainly the behaviour of the police, the quality of the investigation and the fact that Luke was all but declared guilty by the press well before his trial.

"Mitchell, who killed his girlfriend in June 2003 when they were both just 14-years-old, is now 30.

The violent murder took place in Dalkeith.

Speaking in an interview with The Herald, he said: “When the jury visited the crime scene, I was told ‘stay flat and don’t react’- which probably didn’t help in their eyes.”

When he was convicted, Mitchell claims an order was given by the judge, to not show emotion upon the verdict: “I was in shock. The only reason I didn’t fall over was because I was gripping onto the railing in the dock so tightly.

“The public perception is that there is concrete evidence. There is this block in people’s brains. I want them to see that there’s no forensic evidence - nothing.

“Well, there is forensic evidence - just not linked to me. *I thought the jury would see through it because there was no DNA evidence that related to me
Mitchell, who killed his girlfriend in June 2003 when they were both just 14-years-old, is now 30 https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732



There is a wealth of circumstantial evidence in this case. Luke Mitchells behaviour and pathology cemented his guilt.

*What Mitchell alludes to is that he thought because he was forensically aware and the police did not find his DNA he would get away with murder.

"There is this block in people’s brains. I want them to see that there’s no forensic evidence - nothing." What "block in people's brains?" I find this statement arrogant and telling of his devious and deceptive nature.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 10:51:20 AM
'He hopes to take the police force to court upon his release.

He said: “I never did trust the police before. I was always wary. I didn’t think that they’d do what they did to a child. I quickly realised that it didn’t matter what I said. I was in shock at the time.

"They strip searched me and put all my clothes in a bag. Then one turns to the other and says, “wait, shouldn’t we be wearing gloves?” So, they took my clothes out the bag, then put gloves on, and then put them back into the bag.

"At the start they tried to be nicey-nicey, but then they began to push harder. They did a good cop, bad cop routine.  (& I was looking at the social worker to intervene. One was slamming his fists on the table then storming out, and the other would ask If I wanted a drink. I was like, “what are you doing?

"The court system and the police, they’re not separate bodies, they’re all part of the state. The justice system isn’t there to protect you, it’s to get the conviction.

"The public don’t have to think about these things. They don’t want to believe that the system they put their faith in is flawed. They would rather feel safe than be safe.”

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732




IMO someonee needs to inform Luke Mitchell and his "campaign team" that the public don't fall for this type of transparent, manipulative BS anymore.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 11:04:19 AM
"[19] The appellant, being then 19 years of age, was sentenced to be detained for life with a punishment part of 15 years. On an appeal by the Crown, this court likened the case to the medieval horrors of execution by burning and said that it was difficult to envisage more cruel or sadistic treatment of another human being. The court remarked that such cold-blooded conduct could only strike horror into the minds of right-minded members of the community. The court considered that the appellant's offending was not mitigated by his age. It substituted a punishment part of 20 years.
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Jodi's uncle Kevin Walker issued a statement on behalf of his sister Judy - Jodi's mother - and the rest of the family after the case.

He said: "Whatever sentence is passed will not be enough to reform the evil that has spawned this case.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481694/Luke-Mitchell-guilty-of-Jodi-murder.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 18, 2018, 11:11:13 AM
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16881797.luke-mitchell-interview-forensic-scientist-professor-alan-jamieson/#comments-anchor

It will certainly be interesting to see what conclusions Professor Allan Jamieson comes to with regard to the forensic evidence gathered.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 11:38:54 AM
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16881797.luke-mitchell-interview-forensic-scientist-professor-alan-jamieson/#comments-anchor

It will certainly be interesting to see what conclusions Professor Allan Jamieson comes to with regard to the forensic evidence gathered.

Professor Alan Jameison once supported Simon Hall's false claims of innocence.

"To Campbell Malone, Michael Naughton, Gabe, Made, Jo, Amanda, Jess, Keir Starmer, Peter Bull, Allan Jamieson, Cathy & Josie, Innocent & MOJO, John Hatton, thank you for all your hard work and faith in me,
Last but not least, thank you to all the people out there for your support!
Simon,http://www.bushywood.com/BBC_Rough_Justice.htm
 
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 03:19:13 PM
'He hopes to take the police force to court upon his release.

He said: “I never did trust the police before. I was always wary. I didn’t think that they’d do what they did to a child. I quickly realised that it didn’t matter what I said. I was in shock at the time.

"They strip searched me and put all my clothes in a bag. Then one turns to the other and says, “wait, shouldn’t we be wearing gloves?” So, they took my clothes out the bag, then put gloves on, and then put them back into the bag.

"At the start they tried to be nicey-nicey, but then they began to push harder. They did a good cop, bad cop routine.  (& I was looking at the social worker to intervene. One was slamming his fists on the table then storming out, and the other would ask If I wanted a drink. I was like, “what are you doing?

"The court system and the police, they’re not separate bodies, they’re all part of the state. The justice system isn’t there to protect you, it’s to get the conviction.

"The public don’t have to think about these things. They don’t want to believe that the system they put their faith in is flawed. They would rather feel safe than be safe.”

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732




IMO someonee needs to inform Luke Mitchell and his "campaign team" that the public don't fall for this type of transparent, manipulative BS anymore.

"The young girl's laughing eyes stare from the police posters stuck up in the windows of almost every shop and office in Dalkeith.

But so far the appeal for information has yielded few clues. Seventy-five days have passed since Jodi Jones, 14, was found dead in undergrowth five minutes from her home. Despite interviewing more than 3,000 people, Lothian and Borders police have yet to find the murder weapon or make an arrest. In the meantime the former mining community and its outlying villages have been transformed by the fear that the killer is still at large.

Parks and playgrounds that normally ring with the sound of children's voices are hushed and empty. Outside school gates the roads are packed each evening with parents picking up their children - most of whom would have happily walked home before Jodi's murder. Taxi services and video shops report booming trade as youngsters are forbidden to leave their homes at night.

At the centre of this web of fear and suspicion is Luke Mitchell, 15, the boyfriend Jodi was supposed to be meeting on the evening she died.

He is the only person to have been formally questioned over the murder. His treatment - he was handcuffed and taken to a police station - prompted a letter of complaint from his family. More than 20 bags of material have been taken for examination from his parents' house and garden.


In what has become a highly public spat, Jodi's mother, when she heard of Luke's visit, went to the grave, removed his flowers and returned them to his doorstep.

With questionable timing, the boy chose the day of Jodi's funeral to give a television interview protesting his innocence, which enraged her family. Police are said to be interested in comments he made during the broadcast suggesting that he and Jodi "never had one argument".

As speculation continues in the community, Luke,, who has complained of media harassment, has demanded a move to another school after teachers at St David's RC High School, which Jodi also attended, were ordered to isolate him from other pupils for his own safety. On Monday, he stormed out after being told of the school's intention to segregate him.

Nigel Beaumont, the Mitchell family's solicitor, said: "Luke was told by the school he would be kept on his own and given work to do on his own. This was unacceptable to him and his parents. There is no reason to exclude someone from normal teaching."


Reminders of Jodi's killing are everywhere. Little more than 200 yards from the school a shrine of heartfelt messages and poems adorns a lamppost at the entrance to the woodland short cut that the girl took to her death on June 30. More than two dozen bunches of fresh flowers lie with trinkets by the side of the path, now little used and rapidly overgrowing.

The main theory, but not to the only possibility, is that Jodi knew her killer and that there may have been a falling out between them. The path besides which Jodi was found is not marked on any map and is only really known by people living in the area.

One mother, who declined to give her name, described her fears. "Until the police find who killed Jodi there's no way I could let my daughter walk home from school on her own again," she said.

Her view is one that seems to be widely held in Dalkeith. Les Fraser, owner of a taxi firm, said: "People are scared - I've even had one nightshift driver change his shift because his wife was too scared to be be left at home alone. It's just a nightmare that won't go away. Everyone has an idea who it is but the police still haven't managed to do anything about it yet." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/suspicion-and-fear-hang-over-the-town-that-needs-to-find-girls-killer-86744.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 18, 2018, 04:26:25 PM


Luke Mitchell recently stated:

“I never did trust the police before. I was always wary. I didn’t think that they’d do what they did to a child. I quickly realised that it didn’t matter what I said. I was in shock at the time.

"The public don’t have to think about these things. They don’t want to believe that the system they put their faith in is flawed. They would rather feel safe than be safe.”
Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732

Chilling..  *&^^&

"The tactic of blaming has sometimes been called projecting the blame. The term projection stems from psychodynamic psychology and refers to one of the automatic mental behaviors conceptualized by traditional theorists as ego defense mechanisms. The rationale behind that notion is that sometimes individuals unconsciously “project” onto others motivations, intentions, or actions that they actually harbor themselves but which they would feel far too unnerved or guilty about to acknowledge as their own.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 18, 2018, 05:12:11 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732

Blimey, to think they behaved like that to a kid of his age. No wonder he's got such negative views of the police and the justice system in general. I wonder why he was the only one of the search party taken in that night, especially when they all originally corroborated his version of the dog leading him to Jodi's body.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 19, 2018, 06:22:02 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-mitchell-i-would-rather-stay-in-jail-than-admit-my-guilt-for-murder-of-jodi-jones-1-4800732

Blimey, to think they behaved like that to a kid of his age. No wonder he's got such negative views of the police and the justice system in general. I wonder why he was the only one of the search party taken in that night, especially when they all originally corroborated his version of the dog leading him to Jodi's body.

Behaved like what? And do you mean the police?

If so, Luke Mitchell does not sound like your average 14 year old kid.

He was a drug dealer for starters. Do you think his negative views of the police may have come from this fact? Or maybe something else; for example if his parents had negative dealings or views of them? Were his negative views based on what the police stood for maybe? Everything Luke Mitchell wasn't possibly?


Excerpt taken from Sandra Lean's 2008 edition of No Smoke, page 103
"Mr Dobbies suspicions of Luke also seems based more on Luke's personality than on any evidence. Regarding the questioning of July 4th, Mr Dobbie says,

".. all he did was make me more,suspicious. In the interview he was confident and very controlling. He displayed a high level of intelligence."

and in questioning of August 14th, he says,

".. He was challenging. He was totally in control of himself and challenged the abilities of the police. It was like taunts. He had the mental ability to sit and take control of the interview, and that's incredible from someone who,has not previously been part of the criminal process..."
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 20, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
Agreed. I don't know who the rest of the team is made up of but I've always been impressed by Sandra Lean's dedication and how she conducts herself so it's nice to see something happening.

I've never been able to fully decide on guilt or innocence when it come's to Luke's case but I don't think the circumstances of his incarceration were fair and so he deserves a hearing, in my opinion.

Good one Baz. There is more to people than what you could read on a forum or the media in general. I think it is very telling what people do behind the scenes when no one is watching, no one knows. That is the mark of a person.  Sandra is a very genuine lady who has helped people even when in the end they never deserved her time. She isnt bitter, doesnt reply with hate or a hidden agenda. She just keeps on keeping on. Not for herself but to help others.

I agree, he deserves his chance and hopefully that is what he will get!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 20, 2018, 04:20:59 PM
Good one Baz. There is more to people that what you could read on a forum or the media in general. I think it is very telling what people do behind the scenes when no one is watching, no one knows. That is the mark of a person.  Sandra is a very genuine lady who has helped people even when in the end they never deserved her time. She isnt bitter, doesnt reply with hate or a hidden agenda. She just keeps on keeping on. Not for herself but to help others.

I agree, he deserves his chance and hopefully that is what he will get!

I agree with all of this. I don't know Sandra Lean in person but when I was a bit obsessed with the Luke Mitchell case I spoke at length with her (and others) on the Blue forum and she was always willing to provide answers where she could and even going away to look in her own notes etc to find answers to things. She couldn't have been more helpful. I'm not sure where all the negativity towards her comes from but she never seemed to engage with it or rise to it. For every "Sandra Lean has no shame" type thread that is started I hope she sees a posting like this expressing admiration.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 20, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
Good one Baz. There is more to people that what you could read on a forum or the media in general. I think it is very telling what people do behind the scenes when no one is watching, no one knows. That is the mark of a person.  Sandra is a very genuine lady who has helped people even when in the end they never deserved her time. She isnt bitter, doesnt reply with hate or a hidden agenda. She just keeps on keeping on. Not for herself but to help others.

I agree, he deserves his chance and hopefully that is what he will get!

I agree with all of this. I don't know Sandra Lean in person but when I was a bit obsessed with the Luke Mitchell case I spoke at length with her (and others) on the Blue forum and she was always willing to provide answers where she could and even going away to look in her own notes etc to find answers to things. She couldn't have been more helpful. I'm not sure where all the negativity towards her comes from but she never seemed to engage with it or rise to it. For every "Sandra Lean has no shame" type thread that is started I hope she sees a posting like this expressing admiration.

It amazes me how upset you and your mates appear about Sandra Lean and yet not a single thought or kind word about the actual victim and her family in all this!?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 08:15:10 AM
There is more to people that what you could read on a forum or the media in general. I think it is very telling what people do behind the scenes when no one is watching, no one knows. That is the mark of a person. 

Sounds like a throw away statement to me.

What are your thoughts on the following.

Judy Jones branded Luke Mitchell "a sociopath."

She said: "Luke Mitchell is a person without feeling or emotion. I witnessed this on the day I went to his house (after the discovery of Jodi's body).

"He stood there like a stick of rock, did not show any emotion at all whilst I tried to cuddle him and give him comfort."
She said: "Luke Mitchell is a person without feeling or emotion. I witnessed this on the day I went to his house (after the discovery of Jodi's body)
.https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-murdered-jodi-jones-brands-1105317
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 08:34:12 AM

Have you ever heard the phrase "When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like nails"?

Are you suggesting you're bias.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 09:59:04 AM
I was commenting on the views on Sandra Lean and i dont agree which is my right. As for comments towards the victim, i have said many things over the years about Jodi. Once again just because it isnt visible on here is no way a representation of my views

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 10:02:44 AM
My statement about what Sandra does behind the scenes is only a throw away comment in your mind! I know what I am talking about based on facts ! Things I know have happened but hasnt been screamed all across social media or forums like that

Hours and hours of time given with the only reason to help and support.

You dont know, no one on here knows and that is the whole point!

No glory or pat on the back received but work done just the same.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:07:46 AM
I was commenting on the views on Sandra Lean and i dont agree which is my right.

This thread is about Luke Mitchell NOT Sandra Lean!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
It amazes me how upset you and your mates appear about Sandra Lean and yet not a single thought or kind word about the actual victim and her family in all this!?

I find your amazement disingenuous simply because nobody posts more about Sandra Lean than you.

I also feel that the victims of all the crimes that get spoken about on this forum (and others like it) commonly get less attention than the accused but that's because of the nature of the discussions. I assume that everyone on here has nothing but boundless sympathy for the innocent victims of horrible crimes, without them needing to constantly restate that fact.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:11:17 AM
As for comments towards the victim, i have said many things over the years about Jodi. Once again just because it isnt visible on here is no way a representation of my views

What "things" exactly have you said about JJ? Nows your chance to set the record straight.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
It amazes me how upset you and your mates appear about Sandra Lean and yet not a single thought or kind word about the actual victim and her family in all this!?

With all due respect, where was your outpouring of sympathy or kind words for the victim of Simon Hall whilst you were campaigning for him, or your apologies to the people you named as possible perpetrators? Sandra seems to get slated a lot for things you yourself did amidst your campaigning.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:22:12 AM
Sounds like a throw away statement to me.

What are your thoughts on the following.

Judy Jones branded Luke Mitchell "a sociopath."

She said: "Luke Mitchell is a person without feeling or emotion. I witnessed this on the day I went to his house (after the discovery of Jodi's body).

"He stood there like a stick of rock, did not show any emotion at all whilst I tried to cuddle him and give him comfort."
She said: "Luke Mitchell is a person without feeling or emotion. I witnessed this on the day I went to his house (after the discovery of Jodi's body)
.https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-murdered-jodi-jones-brands-1105317

Bringing it back to Luke Mitchell. Maybe after finding his girlfriend's mutilated body it is fair to say he will have been in a state of shock for weeks, if not months after. It would have certainly given me nightmares for the rest of my life. What do you think about the fact the family members changed their statements, what are your thoughts on them doing something so detrimental?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 10:30:17 AM
Bringing it back to Luke Mitchell. Maybe after finding his girlfriend's mutilated body it is fair to say he will have been in a state of shock for weeks, if not months after. It would have certainly given me nightmares for the rest of my life. What do you think about the fact the family members changed their statements, what are your thoughts on them doing something so detrimental?

Excellent points. The statement changes always seemed odd to me.

And why was it that some possible suspects were ruled out so quickly, before forensic test results came back?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:31:21 AM
With all due respect, where was your outpouring of sympathy or kind words for the victim of Simon Hall whilst you were campaigning for him, or your apologies to the people you named as possible perpetrators? Sandra seems to get slated a lot for things you yourself did amidst your campaigning.

Bringing it back to Luke Mitchell. Maybe after finding his girlfriend's mutilated body it is fair to say he will have been in a state of shock for weeks, if not months after. It would have certainly given me nightmares for the rest of my life. What do you think about the fact the family members changed their statements, what are your thoughts on them doing something so detrimental?

And I bet you don't tire of your fallacious arguments
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
And I bet you don't tire of your fallacious arguments

Nothing misleading in what I have said. And it seems you do not tire of yours either. We may have something in common here!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:37:31 AM
Excellent points. The statement changes always seemed odd to me.

And why was it that some possible suspects were ruled out so quickly, before forensic test results came back?

Thank you Baz. It also worries me that the DNA of another person was found at the scene but none from Luke himself.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
It also worries me that the DNA of another person was found at the scene but none from Luke himself.

How many people do you think used that part of the wooded area prior to the murder and innocently left behind their DNA?

So Luke Mitchell was forensically aware; his case isn't the first based on circumstantial evidence.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:45:40 AM
How many people do you think used that part of the wooded area prior to the murder and innocently left behind their DNA?

So Luke Mitchell was forensically aware; his case isn't the first based on circumstantial evidence.

Wasn't the DNA of the sisters boyfriend, particularly sperm, found on Jodi's t-shirt? So what are we suggesting here, that Luke was able to clear away all of his DNA from the scene whilst leaving other people's behind, DNA which will have been invisible to the naked eye? Even if it were possible, it would take some doing.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:50:36 AM
Wasn't the DNA of the sisters boyfriend, particularly sperm, found on Jodi's t-shirt?

And what was the outcome regarding this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:52:54 AM
And what was the outcome regarding this?

I believe the explanation given was the sister loaned Jodi the t-shirt. However, would you loan your sister, or anyone, a dirty t-shirt? Maybe I am judging people by own standards, but I would have made sure the t-shirt was clean at least.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:55:26 AM
So what are we suggesting here, that Luke was able to clear away all of his DNA from the scene whilst leaving other people's behind, DNA which will have been invisible to the naked eye? Even if it were possible, it would take some doing.

"We" aren't suggesting anything.

What is your understanding of DNA evidence in this case?

And why "would it take some doing?"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 10:57:45 AM

And why "would it take some doing?"

I think I have already explained this when I said that DNA (excluding blood) is invisible to the naked eye. Impossible that he would have managed to clean up all of his yet leave someone else's behind.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 10:58:08 AM
I believe the explanation given was the sister loaned Jodi the t-shirt. However, would you loan your sister, or anyone, a dirty t-shirt? Maybe I am judging people by own standards, but I would have made sure the t-shirt was clean at least.

Maybe JJ wasn't aware the T-shirt was soiled. Maybe it looked and smelled clean. Maybe JJ's sister thought it had been laundered before she loaned it out?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 10:59:46 AM
I believe the explanation given was the sister loaned Jodi the t-shirt. However, would you loan your sister, or anyone, a dirty t-shirt? Maybe I am judging people by own standards, but I would have made sure the t-shirt was clean at least.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the DNA wasn't just found on the t-shirt but also on Jodi's bra.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:02:03 AM
Maybe JJ wasn't aware the T-shirt was soiled. Maybe it looked and smelled clean. Maybe JJ's sister thought it had been laundered before she loaned it out?

That still does not negate the fact that someone else's DNA was found at the scene yet none belonging to Luke. Could you clean every bit of your DNA from around the places you have been without being able to see where it is?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:03:20 AM
I think I have already explained this when I said that DNA (excluding blood) is invisible to the naked eye. Impossible that he would have managed to clean up all of his yet leave someone else's behind.

I'm still unsure of your understanding of the DNA evidence in this case and indeed your source for that understanding
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:05:16 AM
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the DNA wasn't just found on the t-shirt but also on Jodi's bra.

Good point Baz! Now let us imagine that the sperm was on the t-shirt before it was loaned to Jodi. It would have certainly been dry by the time she was given it, otherwise she would have noticed it was soiled. So how would it seep through to her bra?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:07:33 AM
I'm still unsure of your understanding of the DNA evidence in this case and indeed your source for that understanding

My understanding of the DNA evidence in this case is as much as anyone else's on this forum. Are you suggesting lies have been told regarding DNA evidence? Are you saying Luke's DNA was in fact found at the scene?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:09:21 AM
My understanding of the DNA evidence in this case is as much as anyone else's on this forum.

Which is?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:13:47 AM
Good point Baz! Now let us imagine that the sperm was on the t-shirt before it was loaned to Jodi. It would have certainly been dry by the time she was given it, otherwise she would have noticed it was soiled. So how would it seep through to her bra?

Can you rule out innocent transfer from the primary source?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:15:25 AM
Well it is my understanding, as much as everyone else who has commented, that someone else's DNA was found at the scene but Luke's was not. I also understand that most DNA is invisible based on the information I have read written by those who understand it far better than I do - i.e. scientists and other professionals alike.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:15:49 AM
Good point Baz! Now let us imagine that the sperm was on the t-shirt before it was loaned to Jodi. It would have certainly been dry by the time she was given it, otherwise she would have noticed it was soiled. So how would it seep through to her bra?

How do you know JJ was wearing a dry t-shirt?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:18:06 AM
Can you rule out innocent transfer from the primary source?

Perhaps, but that still does not explain how Lukes DNA was not at the scene. He was just 14 years of age at the time, I doubt he was "forensically aware" as you put it and I very much doubt he will have been able to clean up invisible traces of DNA. So what would be your take on this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:18:45 AM
How do you know JJ was wearing a dry t-shirt?

So she wore a wet one then? Really?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:20:31 AM
Again I may be judging by my own standards, but if I were loaned a wet t-shirt I would have asked for a dry one.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:22:06 AM
I was also referring to the sperm being dry, otherwise she would have noticed it on the top.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:23:44 AM
I find your amazement disingenuous simply because nobody posts more about Sandra Lean than you.

I also feel that the victims of all the crimes that get spoken about on this forum (and others like it) commonly get less attention than the accused but that's because of the nature of the discussions. I assume that everyone on here has nothing but boundless sympathy for the innocent victims of horrible crimes, without them needing to constantly restate that fact.

I assume nothing, especially on Internet forums where I do not know to whom is posting and their motivations/agendas for doing so etc
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:26:13 AM
I assume nothing, especially on Internet forums where I do not know to whom is posting and their motivations/agendas for doing so etc

I think it is obvious that my motivation is based on the fact that I think Luke Mitchell is innocent.

<EDIT> Apologies, I thought that was aimed at me, but at least you now know my motivation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 11:42:12 AM
Can you rule out innocent transfer from the primary source?

If memory serves me correctly, and it was a couple of years ago that I really read into this case, the prosecution explained the forensics on the bra has having soaked through from the top in the rain but then there being an argument that the two items of clothes were not found together so this would be impossible. The problem with the evidence in this case is that the scene was so horribly managed that it's difficult to draw conclusions.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:45:54 AM
I was also referring to the sperm being dry, otherwise she would have noticed it on the top.

Can you post a crime scene photo of the actual t-shirt in question in order to show us what JJ may have seen?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:50:08 AM
If memory serves me correctly, and it was a couple of years ago that I really read into this case, the prosecution explained the forensics on the bra has having soaked through from the top in the rain but then there being an argument that the two items of clothes were not found together so this would be impossible. The problem with the evidence in this case is that the scene was so horribly managed that it's difficult to draw conclusions.

Isn't a prosecution case at trial a theory?

So innocent transfer from the primary source cannot be ruled out
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:53:01 AM
That still does not negate the fact that someone else's DNA was found at the scene yet none belonging to Luke. Could you clean every bit of your DNA from around the places you have been without being able to see where it is?

Perhaps, but that still does not explain how Lukes DNA was not at the scene.

Where have you got this myth from?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:53:20 AM
Can you post a crime scene photo of the actual t-shirt in question in order to show us what JJ may have seen?

Can you?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:54:40 AM
Where have you got this myth from?

So you are suggesting that Luke's DNA WAS found at the scene? Wouldn't that be direct evidence?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:55:53 AM
He was just 14 years of age at the time, I doubt he was "forensically aware" as you put it and I very much doubt he will have been able to clean up invisible traces of DNA. So what would be your take on this?

What are you basing this assumption on?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 11:58:51 AM
I was also referring to the sperm being dry, otherwise she would have noticed it on the top.

Can you post a crime scene photo of the actual t-shirt in question in order to show us what JJ may have seen?

Can you?

Could the soiling be seen by the naked eye? What was the size of the soiling? Colour, texture etc?

How can we be expected to understand this point without the factual evidence before us?


Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 11:59:07 AM
Isn't a prosecution case at trial a theory?

So innocent transfer from the primary source cannot be ruled out

Neither can the DNA being left there by someone else either, after all Jodi's sister cannot be certain that there was sperm on the t-shirt, I would assume if she did know she would not have loaned her it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:01:10 PM
Could the soiling be seen by the naked eye? What was the size of the soiling? Colour, texture etc?

How can we be expected to understand this point without the factual evidence before us?

So you are now accepting that certain DNA cannot be seen by the naked eye but are still suggesting that Luke managed to clear all his away. You also suggest that Luke's DNA not being found at the scene is "a myth" can you tell me your source for this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:01:59 PM
Neither can the DNA being left there by someone else either, after all Jodi's sister cannot be certain that there was sperm on the t-shirt, I would assume if she did know she would not have loaned her it.

So this could support the theory it wasn't visible to the naked eye?

Maybe she was too embarrassed to admit she had knowingly worn a soiled t-shirt? Can you be certain this wasn't the case?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:04:08 PM
So this could support the theory it wasn't visible to the naked eye?

Maybe she was too embarrassed to admit she had knowingly worn a soiled t-shirt? Can you be certain this wasn't the case?

Again, can you be certain? You have just said that even the prosecution case is theory...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:04:40 PM
So you are now accepting that certain DNA cannot be seen by the naked eye but are still suggesting that Luke managed to clear all his away. You also suggest that Luke's DNA not being found at the scene is "a myth" can you tell me your source for this?

We were discussing the sperm on the "loaned t-shirt"

You've now jumped the gun

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:08:30 PM
We were discussing the sperm on the "loaned t-shirt"

You've now jumped the gun

I don't believe I have "jumped the gun" you also give a lot of theories about knowledge of the sperm on the t-shirt, "it may have looked and smelled clean" etc, all of this is as much theory as the t-shirt being dirty. The sperm may have been visible or not, it may have been wet or not, it is all just theory.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:09:18 PM
So you are suggesting that Luke's DNA WAS found at the scene? Wouldn't that be direct evidence?

You tell me. You claimed none of his DNA was found!?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:11:29 PM
I don't believe I have "jumped the gun" you also give a lot of theories about knowledge of the sperm on the t-shirt, "it may have looked and smelled clean" etc, all of this is as much theory as the t-shirt being dirty. The sperm may have been visible or not, it may have been wet or not, it is all just theory.

So why then do your posts appear to suggest your understanding of this case, for example the sperm, as fact?

I'll ask again, what is your current understanding with regards the DNA in this case?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:12:01 PM
You tell me. You claimed none of his DNA was found!?

Well I would suggest it would be direct evidence - but the case against him was purely circumstantial. Please tell me where your source comes from that DNA was found...

You're very demanding about people answering your question's whilst evading those posed to you.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:14:09 PM
So why then do your posts appear to suggest your understanding of this case, for example the sperm, as fact?

I'll ask again, what is your current understanding with regards the DNA in this case?

I have never once suggested my comments are fact! But the fact that DNA evidence is invisible to the naked eye is fact backed up by forensic scientists. Please show me where it is said that Luke's DNA was found at the scene, you cannot and that is why you evade the question. I therefore assume it is fact!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:16:56 PM

You're very demanding about people answering your question's whilst evading those posed to you.

It is your perogative whether or not you reply to my posts. I am not responsible for you choosing to respond.

What am I evading?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:18:07 PM
You tell me. You claimed none of his DNA was found!?

There is absolutely no source suggesting his DNA was found at the scene, you would think there would be a source if it was found considering the case is so high-profile. So you show me where it is claimed there was some found. We could go around in circles like this or you could prove what you are saying is true. I will repeat, if his DNA was found at the scene we would surely know about it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 12:19:04 PM
You tell me. You claimed none of his DNA was found!?

The prosecution presented no evidence of Luke's DNA being found at the scene.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:19:13 PM
It is your perogative whether or not you reply to my posts. I am not responsible for you choosing to respond.

What am I evading?

The many questions I have asked you, like where is the source that suggests his DNA was found. You did say it was "a myth" therefore fact, so where is your source for this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:20:07 PM
The prosecution presented no evidence of Luke's DNA being found at the scene.

Thank you for clearing that up Baz. I can say with certainty that if his DNA was there they would have been all over that fact.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:27:49 PM
There is absolutely no source suggesting his DNA was found at the scene, you would think there would be a source if it was found considering the case is so high-profile. So you show me where it is claimed there was some found. We could go around in circles like this or you could prove what you are saying is true. I will repeat, if his DNA was found at the scene we would surely know about it!

A partial match of Luke Mitchell's DNA was found at the crime scene.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:28:52 PM
A partial match of Luke Mitchell's DNA was found at the crime scene.

And your source for this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:29:19 PM
The prosecution presented no evidence of Luke's DNA being found at the scene.

What's your point?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
What's your point?

I think the point is that if his DNA was found it would have been presented during the trial...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 12:31:55 PM
of course it would - should any have been found!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:36:35 PM
of course it would - should any have been found!

It is absurd to suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
A partial match of Luke Mitchell's DNA was found at the crime scene.

As I say, it was years ago that I was reading about this so some details may have escaped me. Where was the DNA found? Was any more detail about this revealed? Seems strange that this was not presented at trial.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
I think the point is that if his DNA was found it would have been presented during the trial...

of course it would - should any have been found!

It is absurd to suggest otherwise.

Detective Chief Superintendent Craig Dobbie believes he has the "why". Softly spoken and bespectacled, Dobbie was appointed head of the murder hunt after Jodi’s body was discovered in the woods near Roan’s Dyke, Dalkeith, hours after she met her death ]He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence, finding himself up against a teenage suspect who showed immense cunning under the fiercest pressure.

In that time he had to think himself into the mind of Luke Mitchell. Today, in an exclusive interview, the senior investigating officer in the Jodi Jones case reveals his own thoughts on what happened at Roan’s Dyke on 30th June, 2003.

"He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence" which isn't the same as NO DNA.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:49:21 PM
"He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence" which isn't the same as NO DNA.

It also does not say that a partial DNA match was found, lacking DNA is the same as no DNA. So this still does not prove your suggestion by any means. I have constantly repeated, had there been DNA it would have been presented at trial.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:50:53 PM
Seems strange that this was not presented at trial.

What's makes you say this?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
It also does not say that a partial DNA match was found, lacking DNA is the same as no DNA. So this still does not prove your suggestion by any means. I have constantly repeated, had there been DNA it would have been presented at trial.

You have misquoted for starters

Credible = able to be believed; convincing
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
"He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence" which isn't the same as NO DNA.

Are you aware that the definition of "lacking" is being without
?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
"He fought to solve a crime which lacked critical DNA evidence" which isn't the same as NO DNA.

Lack can mean not enough or none at all. And is that one sentence the basis of your belief that there was a partial DNA sample of Luke found?
What's makes you say this?



If the prosecution had even the possibility of introducing some proof that Luke was at the crime scene I would have expected them to present it to strength their chances of a conviction.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
What's makes you say this?

Oh come on Stephanie! You of all people should know how crucial DNA evidence is at trial.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
Not as much as you it seems! The questions you are asking Baz are ridiculous. Let's turn this on its head... Why would the prosecution exclude DNA evidence, partial or otherwise, from the trial of the person they were trying to convict?

How about you start using your head!

Do I really need to remind you where JJ's body lay that night and under what circumstances?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
Right, so I think we can all safely say that there was NO DNA evidence linking Luke to the crime scene.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:11:42 PM
How about you start using your head!

Do I really need to remind you where JJ's body lay that night and under what circumstances?


Oh please, I am answering your question's which is probably why I seem to be focussed on you. And that still does not mean anything, if his DNA was found they would have used it regardless how long or what conditions Jodi's body lay in that night.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
justsaying you have made some very good, clear points. Luke's case needs to be highlighted in the correct way.

There will always be people out there who can argue til the end of time, just because they can

Have you followed his case for a long time?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:16:00 PM
And, in all fairness, we still have not seen a source that suggests there was a partial DNA match, so it is safe to assume there is not one, especially considering the CPS failed to use any such thing during the trial.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:17:15 PM
justsaying you have made some very good, clear points. Luke's case needs to be highlighted in the correct way.

There will always be people out there who can argue til the end of time, just because they can

Have you followed his case for a long time?

Yes, very much like Baz, read a lot on it a few years ago. His conviction is questionable to say the least, especially through the lack of DNA evidence, lack being none!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 01:19:05 PM
Yes the lack of DNA is very important!

I have followed it for quite a few years too but both you and Baz seem to have a good take on it
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:20:48 PM
Yes the lack of DNA is very important!

I have followed it for quite a few years too but both you and Baz seem to have a good take on it

I will admit I cannot remember every single thing I have read on Luke's case, there has been quite a bit of information over the years - Baz has certainly reminded me of a few things.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 01:23:53 PM
its good to recap on the details especially for people who dont know much about the case. Hopefully as work on his case progresses more and more will be made clear. The support for Luke is still growing and that is fantastic
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:29:10 PM
Slightly off topic, but regarding the DNA evidence which was apparently not used because of the conditions the body lay in... it made me think of the Suffolk stranglers victims, their bodies lay in pretty much the same, if not worse conditions, yet they still used DNA evidence to convict.... Just saying...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:29:26 PM
How will new DNA techniques help Luke Mitchell over turn his conviction?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:31:23 PM
its good to recap on the details especially for people who dont know much about the case. Hopefully as work on his case progresses more and more will be made clear. The support for Luke is still growing and that is fantastic

No it isn't!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 01:32:05 PM
Nothing about Luke's case is laughable. Would be one sick person to find humour  in a 14 year old boys life being ruined.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:32:24 PM
Slightly off topic, but regarding the DNA evidence which was apparently not used because of the conditions the body lay in... it made me think of the Suffolk stranglers victims, their bodies lay in pretty much the same, if not worse conditions, yet they still used DNA evidence to convict.... Just saying...

What about the fibre evidence then?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 01:33:10 PM
No its not fantastic that support is growing ? or it isnt growing . WRONG!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
No it isn't!

I think the discussions on certain social media suggests otherwise. You may not support him, but others certainly do.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:37:18 PM
justsaying you have made some very good, clear points. Dont be put off by name calling. Luke's case needs to be highlighted in the correct way.

There will always be people out there who can argue til the end of time, just because they can

Have you followed his case for a long time?

So you think Luke Mitchell talking to an intern at the Scottish Herald is the "correct way?"

Did you see how he referred to JJ as "my Jodi?"  *&^^&

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
What about the fibre evidence then?

Probably the same in Simon's case, wasn't there questions over the fibre evidence linking him to the scene? And as you have said yourself in a much earlier post, weren't Jodi and Luke together earlier in the day of her tragic death? Could be innocent transfer, but again this is just theory of course.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:50:12 PM
I mentioned the Suffolk strangler purely because you claimed that DNA evidence hadn't been used because of the condition Jodi's body lay in, I was drawing comparisons, isn't that allowed?


Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:53:36 PM
Back to the point in question

You referred to the conditions the victims bodies were left in re the Suffolk strangler case and the similarities re the Mitchell case and DNA evidence but appeared to forget fibre evidence also helped convict Steve Wright
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
Back to the point in question

You referred to the conditions the victims bodies were left in re the Suffolk strangler case and the similarities re the Mitchell case and DNA evidence but appeared to forget fibre evidence also helped convict Steve Wright


Yes, it "helped" to convict, along with the crucial DNA evidence of him on their bodies...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 01:58:39 PM

Yes, it "helped" to convict, along with the crucial DNA evidence of him on their bodies...

Huh?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 02:10:42 PM
Huh?

I'll be a little clearer for you. The fibre evidence you mention regarding the Suffolk strangler case... My point was that it helped to convicted him but it was used along with crucial DNA evidence from bodies which lay in similar conditions to Jody's. If I remember correctly, some of those victims lay for longer in those conditions than Jody did. So it does not really explain why Luke's DNA, which by your claims was allegedly found at the scene where Jody's body lay, was not used by the prosecution in his trial. You did suggest that was the reason the DNA was not used was because of the conditions in which Jody's body lay, at least it certainly seemed that way. I really have to go, it has been great debating this with you.  &^&*%
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 02:28:52 PM
He was just 14 years of age at the time, I doubt he was "forensically aware" as you put it
 So what would be your take on this?

Luke Mitchell wasn't your ordinary run of the mill 14 year old boy
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SVyeBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT106&lpg=PT106&dq=%22Once+you+shake+hands+with+the+devil+you+then+have+truly+experienced+life%22&source=bl&ots=NWGQnbYTvY&sig=k57WHMjM021_ffReu42NO09RKv4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPuPPXmMzdAhUKnRoKHaFbCxoQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Once%20you%20shake%20hands%20with%20the%20devil%20you%20then%20have%20truly%20experienced%20life%22&f=false

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 02:31:49 PM
I'll be a little clearer for you. The fibre evidence you mention regarding the Suffolk strangler case... My point was that it helped to convicted him but it was used along with crucial DNA evidence from bodies which lay in similar conditions to Jody's. If I remember correctly, some of those victims lay for longer in those conditions than Jody did. So it does not really explain why Luke's DNA, which by your claims was allegedly found at the scene where Jody's body lay, was not used by the prosecution in his trial. You did suggest that was the reason the DNA was not used was because of the conditions in which Jody's body lay, at least it certainly seemed that way.

Where was the DNA found on Steve Wrights victims and how many of his victims and can you post the evidence so we can compare the two cases.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 02:37:18 PM
Luke Mitchell wasn't your ordinary run of the mill 14 year old boy
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SVyeBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT106&lpg=PT106&dq=%22Once+you+shake+hands+with+the+devil+you+then+have+truly+experienced+life%22&source=bl&ots=NWGQnbYTvY&sig=k57WHMjM021_ffReu42NO09RKv4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPuPPXmMzdAhUKnRoKHaFbCxoQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Once%20you%20shake%20hands%20with%20the%20devil%20you%20then%20have%20truly%20experienced%20life%22&f=false

This does not prove he is guilty, it is only someone's perception of him.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 02:41:40 PM
Where was the DNA found on Steve Wrights victims and how many of his victims and can you post the evidence so we can compare the two cases.

If you want to know this then look at the case for yourself, there is plenty online to gather the information you want. Although I do not know why you want know where on the bodies the evidence was found considering you do not know where Luke's was allegedly found on Jody... Or even if it was as you still haven't given any reasonable source claiming as much. I think I have humoured all of your questions, even though you have evaded almost all of mine. You still haven't given an answer as to why you think the family changed their statements against Luke? But as you seem selective, I will do the same and bow out of this conversation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 02:59:20 PM
If you want to know this then look at the case for yourself, there is plenty online to gather the information you want. Although I do not know why you want know where on the bodies the evidence was found considering you do not know where Luke's was allegedly found on Jody... Or even if it was as you still haven't given any reasonable source claiming as much. I think I have humoured all of your questions, even though you have evaded almost all of mine. You still haven't given an answer as to why you think the family changed their statements against Luke? But as you seem selective, I will do the same and bow out of this conversation.

I asked you because you do not appear to see the differences in the two cases.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 03:04:13 PM
This does not prove he is guilty, it is only someone's perception of him.

I posted the link to support my claims that Luke Mitchell was no ordinary 14 year old.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 03:16:44 PM
Although I do not know why you want know where on the bodies the evidence was found considering you do not know where Luke's was allegedly found on Jody...

You're making assumptions again  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 03:21:19 PM
You're making assumptions again  *&^^&

Ok, so you know for certain that Luke's DNA was found on Jody's body and you know exactly where it was found too? You seem to know more than most, were you part of the forensic team?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 03:35:49 PM
Getting back to the important stuff. Nothing posted here today has changed my view on Luke's case and will await further developments with interest
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 03:39:46 PM
Getting back to the important stuff. Nothing posted here today has changed my view on Luke's case and will await further developments with interest

I agree, I do hope that things can be straightened out once and for all, there is a lot of speculation with some out and out lies surrounding this case, although I do suspect that if the truth does come out there will be some things which will never be answered.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 03:41:34 PM
Wishing Luke all the best. With Jodi in mind too. Someone out there is responsible for her murder and we cant forget that.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Ok, so you know for certain that Luke's DNA was found on Jody's body and you know exactly where it was found too? You seem to know more than most, were you part of the forensic team?

You don't appear to know much about this case?!

Infact you appear more concerned with your perceptions and assumptions regarding the dynamics between myself and Sandra Lean and what has gone on before. The same applies to the Simon Hall case!

Why would I need to be part of the forensic team?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 03:44:24 PM
I dont think justsaying ever declared themselves an expert on the case just someone who has followed it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
You don't appear to know much about this case?!

Why would I need to be part of the forensic team?

With all due respect I will refuse to answer your questions from now on, do not take any offence to this, you've refused to answer a lot of mine too.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 03:48:53 PM
I dont think justsaying ever declared themselves an expert on the case just someone who has followed it.

No I never have, but it seems I am not the only one who isn't an expert. I would never stoop to saying things factually exist when they clearly do not.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 03:50:02 PM
Some people do not like the truth and it is easier to go on the defensive than to accept another person's word. It is just getting a little tedious now.

Some people cannot separate fact from myth.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 04:06:20 PM
I think everyone reading got the main points, you know about Luke!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 21, 2018, 04:09:10 PM
I think everyone reading got the main points, you know about Luke!

Thank you Jixy, as I say there is a lot I do not know other than the conviction is questionable to say the least.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 04:20:53 PM
You believe Luke's case needs further investigation and thats what counts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 04:38:39 PM
Good point Baz! Now let us imagine that the sperm was on the t-shirt before it was loaned to Jodi. It would have certainly been dry by the time she was given it, otherwise she would have noticed it was soiled. So how would it seep through to her bra?

Is what you've posted re the sperm on the t-shirt a fact?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Slightly off topic, but regarding the DNA evidence which was apparently not used because of the conditions the body lay in... it made me think of the Suffolk stranglers victims, their bodies lay in pretty much the same, if not worse conditions, yet they still used DNA evidence to convict.... Just saying...

Is this a fact?

What other evidence was there against the Suffolk strangler that helped convict him?

Same applies to Luke Mitchell.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on September 21, 2018, 04:59:44 PM
I have deleted a few posts on this thread owing to rude and silly name calling. Please could we keep to the subject. This is a very interesting discussion!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 21, 2018, 05:07:04 PM
I found the discussion fascinating but never did come to an actual definitive conclusion, although I definitely believe the case should be reheard.

I don't think you need to recreate it here. It's all there if anyone wants to read it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 05:50:10 PM
I found the discussion fascinating but never did come to an actual definitive conclusion, although I definitely believe the case should be reheard.

I don't think you need to recreate it here. It's all there if anyone wants to read it.

This is where you and I are in opposition. What needs exposing is the manipulative, under handed tactics being deployed from various quarters with regards the LM campaign. Along with the deception and lies that have been banded about over the years.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 21, 2018, 06:42:23 PM
That's me. I come in on page 191 of the discussion if anyone wants to read it all. I found the discussion fascinating but never did come to an actual definitive conclusion,

Would be interested to hear your views re the possibility the motivation for murder was erotophonophilia.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 21, 2018, 07:16:19 PM
People have some strange habits that most people never get to know about. I work with some very vulnerable people who deal with their problems in very unexpected ways. It doesnt highlight their criminality just their struggles.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 08:20:08 AM
Would be interested to hear your views re the possibility the motivation for murder was erotophonophilia.

"It was the strong smell of ammonia which first struck detectives when they walked into Luke Mitchell's bedroom.

If that initially puzzled them, then their next discovery would startle even the most hardened investigators.

There lying under the teenager's bed were bottle after bottle of a cloudy liquid, looking suspiciously like urine.

More bottles were hidden away in drawers, some wrapped up in socks. Soon there were 20 bottles lying in front of the bewildered detectives. Lab tests would later show they were the 15-year-old's own urine. https://www.scotsman.com/news/urine-under-bed-paints-picture-of-oddball-killer-1-1259455
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 12:35:34 PM
"It was the strong smell of ammonia which first struck detectives when they walked into Luke Mitchell's bedroom.

If that initially puzzled them, then their next discovery would startle even the most hardened investigators.

There lying under the teenager's bed were bottle after bottle of a cloudy liquid, looking suspiciously like urine.

More bottles were hidden away in drawers, some wrapped up in socks. Soon there were 20 bottles lying in front of the bewildered detectives. Lab tests would later show they were the 15-year-old's own urine. https://www.scotsman.com/news/urine-under-bed-paints-picture-of-oddball-killer-1-1259455

According to Richard Hoskins, Craig Dobbie consulted with him in order to help him understand why Luke Mitchell murdered JJ.

"Whilst working at Bath Spa University, Richard Hoskins was called upon by the Metropolitan Police Service to work as an expert witness in the Torso in the Thames case.[2] He has since been called as an expert witness in over a hundred criminal cases, including numerous high-profile murders, such as those of Victoria Climbié,[4] Jodi Jones and the Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu case.[5][6][7][8] Hoskins has been called upon to provide commentary on these cases and the related field by numerous press organisations.[9][10][11][12][13] He is an expert on African religions.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] He is the only registered multi-cultural expert on the UK national police SOCA database.[2][21][22][23] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Richard_Hoskins.html

He claims to have been profoundly affected by the JJ's case
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DyyAmjhB-koC&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=richard+hoskins+jodi+jones+murder&source=bl&ots=hsAyk5XLGi&sig=Hvf223lApZ2GelCI_ezF_sbyWaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA6ZSLw87dAhVBCuwKHVG1DWkQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=richard%20hoskins%20jodi%20jones%20murder&f=false

Re Wiltshire police
".... Dr Hoskins said he had "exposed a catalogue of fabrication" at the heart of the probe and warned the force it should immediately end its investigation into a key accuser's "pernicious" claims of satanic ritual abuse.
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-10-05/sir-ted-heath-operation-conifer-child-sex-abuse-allegations/

Does anyone have Richard Hoskins current views on Luke Mitchell and his claims of innocence?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 22, 2018, 12:51:07 PM
Thank you Baz. It also worries me that the DNA of another person was found at the scene but none from Luke himself.

Its been a while but if I recall correctly, Luke Mitchell had physical contact with Jodi Jones regularly including the day she was murdered so his DNA should have been on her or her clothing. Likewise, Jodi's DNA would have been on Luke Mitchell. None was ever found which I put down to a failed CSI exercise.

It is often argued that his DNA was not found on her or at the crime scene so he couldn't have killed her. That argument fails on the basis of the above.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
its good to recap on the details especially for people who dont know much about the case. Hopefully as work on his case progresses more and more will be made clear. The support for Luke is still growing and that is fantastic

You will find the only thing to "made clear" is that Luke Mitchell et al are on another pointless fishing expedition.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 01:36:13 PM
I support Luke in his fight for justice. it is fantastic to see the news headlines today and know that he has an amazing team of people working so hard to clear his name

His day is coming!

I do hope MOJO are being mindful with regards their support of Luke Mitchell.

Following Simon Hall's admission to hospital in 2013 and prior to his confession, I approached them for help.

After confiding in Cathy Malloy, she reminded me that drug addicts aren't to be trusted.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 02:25:14 PM
According to Richard Hoskins, Craig Dobbie consulted with him in order to help him understand why Luke Mitchell murdered JJ.

"Whilst working at Bath Spa University, Richard Hoskins was called upon by the Metropolitan Police Service to work as an expert witness in the Torso in the Thames case.[2] He has since been called as an expert witness in over a hundred criminal cases, including numerous high-profile murders, such as those of Victoria Climbié,[4] Jodi Jones and the Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu case.[5][6][7][8] Hoskins has been called upon to provide commentary on these cases and the related field by numerous press organisations.[9][10][11][12][13] He is an expert on African religions.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] He is the only registered multi-cultural expert on the UK national police SOCA database.[2][21][22][23] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Richard_Hoskins.html

He claims to have been profoundly affected by the JJ's case
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DyyAmjhB-koC&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=richard+hoskins+jodi+jones+murder&source=bl&ots=hsAyk5XLGi&sig=Hvf223lApZ2GelCI_ezF_sbyWaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA6ZSLw87dAhVBCuwKHVG1DWkQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=richard%20hoskins%20jodi%20jones%20murder&f=false

Re Wiltshire police
".... Dr Hoskins said he had "exposed a catalogue of fabrication" at the heart of the probe and warned the force it should immediately end its investigation into a key accuser's "pernicious" claims of satanic ritual abuse.
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-10-05/sir-ted-heath-operation-conifer-child-sex-abuse-allegations/

Does anyone have Richard Hoskins current views on Luke Mitchell and his claims of innocence?

"Hoskins was commissioned by Wiltshire police. He had himself been a victim of child sexual abuse, for which someone had been imprisoned. Yet he was scandalised by the approach of Operation Conifer:

“They believed from the outset that Edward Heath was guilty. That is all they wanted me to prove. When I appeared to question their position, they pressured me about this. Never before in 200 criminal investigations has this happened to me as an independent expert witness.”


One of the 200 criminal investigations being the murder of JJ

Interview with Criminolgist Dr Richard Hoskins https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8INSjJKhZ1c&time_continue=143
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 02:54:40 PM
You will find the only thing to "made clear" is that Luke Mitchell et al are on another pointless fishing expedition.

That is your opinion not an actual fact.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 22, 2018, 02:54:51 PM
Right, so I think we can all safely say that there was NO DNA evidence linking Luke to the crime scene.

Which goes to show the inadequacy of the CSI since Luke was at the crime scene.  It could be argued that he climbed over the wall in order to pretend to discover Jodi's body so as to confuse the footprints and/or DNA he had already left there.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 02:58:44 PM
Can I just ask... can justsaying reply to these comments? Their DNA comment would have been very interesting to balance this up. Have they been banned?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 22, 2018, 03:00:41 PM
Can I just ask... can justsaying reply to these comments? Their DNA comment would have been very interesting to balance this up. Have they been banned?

He or she will no doubt reply when next online.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 22, 2018, 03:33:58 PM
Its been a while but if I recall correctly, Luke Mitchell had physical contact with Jodi Jones regularly including the day she was murdered so his DNA should have been on her or her clothing. Likewise, Jodi's DNA would have been on Luke Mitchell. None was ever found which I put down to a failed CSI exercise.

It is often argued that his DNA was not found on her or at the crime scene so he couldn't have killed her. That argument fails on the basis of the above.

Hello John. I respect your opinion but I do not necessarily agree with this. Could it be that they were together earlier in the day and Jody perhaps got changed during the time she was supposed to meet him on the evening? I cannot recall under what circumstances they were together earlier on the day she was tragically killed. Were they at school together that day? If so they could have both been changed out of their school clothes. I really do not think that Luke was capable of removing every trace of his DNA whilst managing to leave other people's DNA present. That is just my opinion of course. Sorry I took so long to reply, I was locked out of my account for some reason.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 22, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
Hello John. I respect your opinion but I do not necessarily agree with this. Could it be that they were together earlier in the day and Jody perhaps got changed during the time she was supposed to meet him on the evening? I cannot recall under what circumstances they were together earlier on the day she was tragically killed. Were they at school together that day? If so they could have both been changed out of their school clothes. I really do not think that Luke was capable of removing every trace of his DNA whilst managing to leave other people's DNA present. That is just my opinion of course. Sorry I took so long to reply, I was locked out of my account for some reason.

They did meet in private at school earlier that day and if I recall correctly, Jodi got the bus home after school while Luke walked home alone. Nobody ever came forward to claim anything different.

One thing which those unfamiliar with the case must understand is that Luke Mitchell was seen by a passing motorist at the end of the rural track which led to the murder scene just minutes after Jodi had been brutally slashed across her throat. In fairness to the defence, Mitchell denied this was him and claimed that he never strayed from the entrance to his estate which was several hundred yards away. In order to believe Mitchell's version of events one has to accept that another lad who looked like Luke Mitchell and was dressed like Luke Mitchell just happened to be stood there, a few hundred yards from Luke Mitchell as Jodi was murdered. One also has to remember that the track was barely used and that pedestrians using the public road were few and far between.

I fear that on the balance of probabilities, the jury failed to accept this coincidence.

As for the DNA, the simple answer is that it rained on the murder scene and as Lothian & Borders Police failed to erect a canopy over the site, all sorts of evidence was lost.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 22, 2018, 05:38:22 PM
As for the DNA, the simple answer is that it rained on the murder scene and as Lothian & Borders Police failed to erect a canopy over the site, all sorts of evidence was lost.

I accept that, but what I find hard to accept is the rain washed away every trace of Luke yet left other traces from other people behind.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 07:22:29 PM
I accept that, but what I find hard to accept is the rain washed away every trace of Luke yet left other traces from other people behind.

Where is your evidence for this claim and who is your source?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
Out of context you can make anything fit.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 09:01:26 PM
well you definitely cant pin that one on me  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 22, 2018, 09:12:16 PM
well you definitely cant pin that one on me  @)(++(*

Back to Luke, what do you think, Jixy, about the rain washing away all of his DNA but leaving others behind?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 09:17:19 PM
I think that would be impossible for the rain alone or if Luke tried to make it happen. Hopefully someone will find the answers Luke needs.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 09:20:57 PM
I dont think everyone needs to be explained and defined by a link. Even if it makes great reading and suits your purpose it is only ever a guide!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 22, 2018, 09:22:30 PM
I think that would be impossible for the rain alone or if Luke tried to make it happen. Hopefully someone will find the answers Luke needs.

Yes I agree, would be quite impossible for him to select which DNA was his, don't you think?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 09:23:42 PM
Absolutely  8@??)(
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Angelo222 on September 22, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
Gosh, someone is like a Duracell battery, just keeps going and going and going  @)(++(*

Agreed...can we cease the personal comments now please!!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 09:46:59 PM
Back to Luke, what do you think, Jixy, about the rain washing away all of his DNA but leaving others behind?

Hasn't John already answered this for you?

Luke Mitchell had physical contact with Jodi Jones regularly including the day she was murdered so his DNA should have been on her or her clothing. Likewise, Jodi's DNA would have been on Luke Mitchell. None was ever found which I put down to a failed CSI exercise.

It is often argued that his DNA was not found on her or at the crime scene so he couldn't have killed her. That argument fails on the basis of the above.

Which goes to show the inadequacy of the CSI since Luke was at the crime scene.  It could be argued that he climbed over the wall in order to pretend to discover Jodi's body so as to confuse the footprints and/or DNA he had already left there.

They did meet in private at school earlier that day and if I recall correctly, Jodi got the bus home after school while Luke walked home alone. Nobody ever came forward to claim anything different.

One thing which those unfamiliar with the case must understand is that Luke Mitchell was seen by a passing motorist at the end of the rural track which led to the murder scene just minutes after Jodi had been brutally slashed across her throat. In fairness to the defence, Mitchell denied this was him and claimed that he never strayed from the entrance to his estate which was several hundred yards away. In order to believe Mitchell's version of events one has to accept that another lad who looked like Luke Mitchell and was dressed like Luke Mitchell just happened to be stood there, a few hundred yards from Luke Mitchell as Jodi was murdered. One also has to remember that the track was barely used and that pedestrians using the public road were few and far between.

I fear that on the balance of probabilities, the jury failed to accept this coincidence.

As for the DNA, the simple answer is that it rained on the murder scene and as Lothian & Borders Police failed to erect a canopy over the site, all sorts of evidence was lost.

It's seems you've been unable to grasp the reality of his explanation or indeed the facts of this case.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 22, 2018, 09:51:52 PM
I dont think the answers lie with John. He has his opinions as do we all.

The thread is about Luke.. To ask what i think seems to be a reasonable question considering that is what we are meant to be discussing
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 22, 2018, 09:55:43 PM
I dont think the answers lie with John. He has his opinions as do we all.

The thread is about Luke.. To ask what i think seems to be a reasonable question considering that is what we are meant to be discussing

Your opinion mustn't matter  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 22, 2018, 10:02:37 PM
I dont think the answers lie with John. He has his opinions as do we all.

The thread is about Luke.. To ask what i think seems to be a reasonable question considering that is what we are meant to be discussing

Where do you think the answers lie then?

2009
"The case also centred on Mitchell's character, his supposedly unemotional reaction to Jodi's death and that he carried knives, sold cannabis and was interested in satanism. After the longest trial of a single accused in Scottish legal history, a majority verdict convicted Mitchell and he was sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 20 years to be served before parole

In the years following the verdict there has been some unease at the circumstantial nature of the case, but an appeal was rejected last year.

Now Mitchell's new defence team is preparing to apply for a fresh appeal based partly on the original forensics investigation, the details of which have never before been made public. The new defence team say the original police forensic service laboratory report and biology report contradict the prosecution case that the murder did not have a sexual motive, as semen was found on Jodi's body.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/02/luke-mitchell-jodi-jones-appeal

2017
"Lean, who was reported to have distanced herself from the campaign in recent years, said: “After 11 years, I needed a break, I was exhausted. I’m still involved and the SCCRC can review the case again if new information comes to light. There are still avenues that have not been addressed and it’s down to us to present a compelling case for why they should be.”
The case, once described by an investigating officer and a trial judge as the worst murder they had seen, has troubled some observers. The murder weapon was never found and there was no DNA evidence linking Mitchell to the crime scene.
In 2012, Lean and Mitchell’s mother, Corinne, delivered a 300-page dossier to the SCCRC, which included claims that a Mitchell lookalike may have confused eyewitnesses. The SCCRC later concluded that although police officers breached Mitchell’s human rights when they questioned him without a lawyer present, it did not believe he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice. http://www.miscarriagesofjustice.org/campaigners-to-launch-new-appeal-for-luke-mitchell/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 23, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
Your opinion mustn't matter  @)(++(*

I'm interested in your opinion on this case and other cases.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 01:20:37 PM
I'm interested in your opinion on this case and other cases

I think that ship has definitely sailed...

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 01:26:13 PM
I dont think the answers lie with John. He has his opinions as do we all.

The thread is about Luke.. To ask what i think seems to be a reasonable question considering that is what we are meant to be discussing

My opinion is based on a very long investigation of the known facts in the case with first hand information being provided by people closest to both families. It also takes into account the conduct of certain individuals post incident which in itself was very telling. The evidence, albeit circumstantial, stacks up against Luke Mitchell so my opinion is unaltered.

I must also point out that I have met Luke Mitchell and was originally a supporter.  However, with the passage of time certain key facts fell into place which left me with no option but to change my stance.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 23, 2018, 01:29:14 PM
I didnt mean your answers didnt count or worth consideration. What I meant was your views have already been known. Justsaying was asking about other peoples views but as usual gets derailed

It seems very difficult to have a clear discussion about Luke or his case as all the comments seem to go back to one person, hidden agendas or such like

Guess this thread wont move any further on and maybe Stephanie needs a thread all of her own
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
I didnt mean your answers didnt count or worth consideration. What I meant was your views have already been known. Justsaying was asking about other peoples views but as usual gets derailed

It seems very difficult to have a clear discussion about Luke or his case as all the comments seem to go back to one person, hidden agendas or such like

Guess this thread wont move any further on and maybe Stephanie needs a thread all of her own

To be fair to Stephanie, she was privy to a lot of what went on with the Wrongly Accused Person organisation which is now defunct having never returned a single statement of account to the Scottish Charity Regulator. She can see parallels between what occurred in her late husbands case and that of Luke Mitchell so feels able to post as an informed individual.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 23, 2018, 01:35:30 PM
I think that ship has definitely sailed...


The work for Luke will carry on regardless of the irrelevant posts
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 01:42:12 PM
The work for Luke will carry on regardless of the irrelevant posts

I really cannot be bothered to keep explaining myself. One thing I cannot stand is hypocrisy, perhaps it shows, and was the reason for some of my posts. Anyway, moving on...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 01:48:49 PM
The topic is about Luke Mitchell, guilty or innocent.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 02:11:12 PM
I must remind all posters that making inappropriate personal comments is against the forum rules.  All such comments will be removed immediately we are aware of them. Continued posting of such comments will result in sanctions being applied. TY
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 23, 2018, 02:13:26 PM
lets hope it doesnt continue then no one needs to have to defend or explain themselves only to have their posts removed while doing so.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 02:19:29 PM
Thank you Jixy, as I say there is a lot I do not know other than the conviction is questionable to say the least.

Questionable why? 

This forum is based on facts and evidence so please elaborate as to why you think Luke Mitchell's conviction is unsafe?

If you can!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
Questionable why? 

This forum is based on facts and evidence so please elaborate as to why you think Luke Mitchell's conviction is unsafe?

If you can!

Oh dear, I seemed to have ruffled someone else's feathers. So opinion is not welcome? Do I really have to put on the end of every single post that this is my opinion and not fact? You have expressed your opinion which I will point out if you like!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 02:40:11 PM
Oh dear, I seemed to have ruffled someone else's feathers. So opinion is not welcome? Do I really have to put on the end of every single post that this is my opinion and not fact? You have expressed your opinion which I will point out if you like!

Opinion has to be based on facts.  This is a persons life we are discussing.  If there is evidence which you believe is capable of overturning his conviction I think we need to hear it.  Over to you?

ETA.  If there is compelling evidence which supports Luke's claim I would be the first to support it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 02:42:42 PM
Opinion has to be based on facts.  This is a persons life we are discussing.  If there is evidence which you believe is capable of overturning his conviction I think we need to hear it.  Over to you?

Ok, just so we are clear, although some of my other posts probably explain this. In my opinion the conviction is questionable based on the fact other people's DNA was found at the scene. Will that do?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 02:57:36 PM
Ok, just so we are clear, although some of my other posts probably explain this. In my opinion the conviction is questionable based on the fact other people's DNA was found at the scene. Will that do?

That is correct but is not new information.  Identifiable DNA from her older sister's boyfriend was found on Jodi's clothing.  As already pointed out, the T-shirt had been borrowed from her older sister. Luke's DNA was never recovered from Jodi or her clothing even though it should have been present given that the couple had met at school earlier that day.

A failure to preserve the crimescene properly led to a failure to properly collect and identify all DNA present.



Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
That is correct but is not new information.  Identifiable DNA from her older sister's boyfriend was found on Jodi's clothing.  As already pointed out, the T-shirt had been borrowed from her older sister. Luke's DNA was never recovered from Jodi or her clothing even though it should have been present given that the couple had met earlier that day.

So I have to accept that? It is just your opinion that his DNA should have been present because the couple had been together earlier that day. You do not know for certain whether Jody bathed or changed prior to intending to meet Luke later . We also do not know for certain whether the DNA was on the t-shirt prior to Jody being loaned it, the prosecution speculated that it was and the jury must have accepted that. But, there are plenty of examples in which juries have gotten it wrong, the examples being in the many overturned cases which are available online, in books, articles etc.

<EDIT> The examples of overturned cases prove that the prosecution, and even forensic scientists, get it wrong also.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 05:18:34 PM
So I have to accept that? It is just your opinion that his DNA should have been present because the couple had been together earlier that day. You do not know for certain whether Jody bathed or changed prior to intending to meet Luke later . We also do not know for certain whether the DNA was on the t-shirt prior to Jody being loaned it, the prosecution speculated that it was and the jury must have accepted that. But, there are plenty of examples in which juries have gotten it wrong, the examples being in the many overturned cases which are available online, in books, articles etc.

<EDIT> The examples of overturned cases prove that the prosecution, and even forensic scientists, get it wrong also.

I accept that certainly. The point being that an absence of DNA link between Luke and Jodi is not a ground for an appeal as this absence could result from many circumstances.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 05:48:18 PM
I accept that certainly. The point being that an absence of DNA link between Luke and Jodi is not a ground for an appeal as this absence could result from many circumstances.

I agree, whilst being mindful that one of those "circumstances" could very well be that he is not the killer.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 23, 2018, 07:58:43 PM
I agree, whilst being mindful that one of those "circumstances" could very well be that he is not the killer.

But that is where the inculpatory circumstantial evidence comes into its own, the most damning of which is the eyewitness who identified Luke standing just across the main road from the footpath which led to the murder scene a matter of minutes after the murder.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 23, 2018, 08:39:06 PM
But that is where the inculpatory circumstantial evidence comes into its own, the most damning of which is the eyewitness who identified Luke standing just across the main road from the footpath which led to the murder scene a matter of minutes after the murder.

Was it not the case that other people were also seen at the relevant time near the V in the wall where Jodi's (sorry I realise I have been spelling her name wrong) body was subsequently found? Was it not the case these people lied about this fact initially?

Was Luke picked out in a ID parade as being said person hanging around, or was it the case that it was claimed it was a person who looked similar to him?

Where was it exactly that Luke agreed to meet Jodi? Could this be why he was spotted near the scene? (if it was him)

Sorry I do not know the area, and probably have read the answers to these questions in the past but cannot recall what was said.

I had a friend who passed away several years back now, and there is a few times I could have sworn I had seen him, had I not known he was dead I would have testified it was him. I would have been wrong. (obviously)

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 24, 2018, 01:29:18 PM
But that is where the inculpatory circumstantial evidence comes into its own, the most damning of which is the eyewitness who identified Luke standing just across the main road from the footpath which led to the murder scene a matter of minutes after the murder.

If I remember correctly, and I feel like all my posts about this case should start like that, all the eye witness testimony was slightly problematic. There was the main one who refused to identify Luke in court, right? And then the two together who's statements changed numerous times regarding where they actually saw him. I remember finding neither of them convincing. And, if I recall, the two didn't see any sign of blood on Luke even though this would have been after he had apparently brutally murdered Jodi and even the prosecution's pathology expert stated that it would have been very unlikely that Luke would not have had blood all over him.

I hope that's all accurate. Maybe I should re-read up on it before commenting anymore. Annoying that all the information isn't in one easy to digest place.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 24, 2018, 05:45:23 PM
I think it would have been wholly unfair if anyone did ID him in court, on the basis he was the only one in the dock - would have been too easy to do it that way. I guess this is allowed in Scotland? It certainly is not allowed in England and for good reason.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 08:25:48 PM
.Maybe I should re-read up on it before commenting anymore. Annoying that all the information isn't in one easy to digest place.

As well as the fact key supporters of Luke Mitchell's campaign are not credible, therefore much of the information in the public domain on this case is disingenuous.

For example, nugnug over on blue claimed the following
"Jodis brother pleaded guilty to threatening to kill Sandra lean outside her own home so yes he has got a record. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg115984.html#msg115984

Yet according to Sandra Lean:
(90) In the course of this study, four people were arrested for online harassment and intimidation, direct physical threats were made to at least three individuals, including death threats, photographs of individuals‟ homes and family members were posted online, and personal addresses and phone numbers were released. Police in England acted on complaints of online harassment and intimidation, whereas Scottish police refused repeatedly to do so
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 24, 2018, 08:42:57 PM
Considering the amount of posts that were deleted yesterday for going off the subject of Is Luke Mitchell guilty, dont see how this is relevant to what Baz posted.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 24, 2018, 08:52:31 PM
Just another given opportunity to snipe at Sandra, very sad!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 08:53:03 PM
Considering the amount of posts that were deleted yesterday for going off the subject of Is Luke Mitchell guilty, dont see how this is relevant to what Baz posted.

Surely when considering the evidence in this case for or against guilt the source for the evidence is of high importance?!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 09:06:19 PM
Where do you think the answers lie then?

2009
"The case also centred on Mitchell's character, his supposedly unemotional reaction to Jodi's death and that he carried knives, sold cannabis and was interested in satanism. After the longest trial of a single accused in Scottish legal history, a majority verdict convicted Mitchell and he was sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 20 years to be served before parole

In the years following the verdict there has been some unease at the circumstantial nature of the case, but an appeal was rejected last year.

Now Mitchell's new defence team is preparing to apply for a fresh appeal based partly on the original forensics investigation, the details of which have never before been made public. The new defence team say the original police forensic service laboratory report and biology report contradict the prosecution case that the murder did not have a sexual motive, as semen was found on Jodi's body.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/02/luke-mitchell-jodi-jones-appeal

2017
"Lean, who was reported to have distanced herself from the campaign in recent years, said: “After 11 years, I needed a break, I was exhausted. I’m still involved and the SCCRC can review the case again if new information comes to light. There are still avenues that have not been addressed and it’s down to us to present a compelling case for why they should be.”
The case, once described by an investigating officer and a trial judge as the worst murder they had seen, has troubled some observers. The murder weapon was never found and there was no DNA evidence linking Mitchell to the crime scene.
In 2012, Lean and Mitchell’s mother, Corinne, delivered a 300-page dossier to the SCCRC, which included claims that a Mitchell lookalike may have confused eyewitnesses. The SCCRC later concluded that although police officers breached Mitchell’s human rights when they questioned him without a lawyer present, it did not believe he was the victim of a miscarriage of justice. http://www.miscarriagesofjustice.org/campaigners-to-launch-new-appeal-for-luke-mitchell/

If I were to interview Luke Mitchell I'd ask him what he did with the knife he used to murder Jodi

I'd also ask him what triggered his interest in Satanism at such a young age

...and still no word on why Luke Mitchell would request books on satanism

"A trio of books on Mitchell’s list are by Anton Szandor LaVey, the US founder of the Church of Satan, and include essays on demons, Nazism, cannibalism, death and child abuse.

In The Satanic Bible, LaVey discusses how someone could be considered “fit and proper” as a human sacrifice. The book concludes: “The answer is brutally simple. Anyone who has unjustly wronged you.”

Another title, Satan Speaks, has a foreword by goth musician Marilyn Manson, whose paintings and music were said to have inspired Mitchell’s murder of tragic Jodi.

Mitchell was just 15 when he stabbed his 14-year-old girlfriend to death in Easthouses, Midlothian.

Jodi’s mutilated body was found in woods near her home.

It emerged Mitchell had scratched 666 into his arm with a compass and drew Satanic symbols and quotes on his schoolbooks.

At his trial, prosecutors highlighted he was a Marilyn Manson fan who had shown an interest in the Black Dahlia, a notorious unsolved 1947 murder when aspiring Hollywood actress Elizabeth Short was mutilated. While under investigation for Jodi’s murder it emerged he had a demonic tattoo done.
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/killer-luke-mitchell-demands-satanic-books-in-jail-1-3375463

"Religious beliefs" - were these the same "religious beliefs" he held before murdering JJ?  *&^^&

Dupers delight springs to mind  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 09:33:02 PM
If I were to interview Luke Mitchell I'd ask him what he did with the knife he used to murder Jodi

I'd also ask him what triggered his interest in Satanism at such a young age

And what his relationship was like with his mother

"When Mrs Mitchell went into the witness box during the trial, despite repeated suggestions from the prosecution that she had lied, she showed no sign of the short fuse Luke told a psychiatrist he had inherited from his mother.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481697/Lies-to-protect-a-son.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 09:48:23 PM
This does not prove he is guilty, it is only someone's perception of him.

He's already been proved guilty in a court of law and my perceptions are based on his quite apparent criminal mind and conduct, amongst a wealth of other relevant factors.

There's no getting away from the fact Luke Mitchell showed a dark side to his character at a young age regardless of how some people may have dismissed or minimised them over the years.

At 14 years old, we know he was self medicating on large quantites of illegal drugs from his own admission for starters. Was this in order to attempt to suppress his feelings and dark sadistic fantasies?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on September 24, 2018, 10:26:15 PM
I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 10:34:33 PM
I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?

I agree John and then there's his relationship with his mother, her parenting style and quite apparent blurred lines on morality

"Are they courageous mothers who decided to do the right thing? Or is this the ultimate maternal betrayal made by desperate parents
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivian-diller-phd/teen-crime_b_2035255.html?guccounter=1
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 24, 2018, 10:52:09 PM
I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?

It would be interesting to learn what Luke Mitchell's supporters understanding and interpretations are of the criminal spin. And the impact of his mothers parenting style and the effect it had on him; which appears to have been both "uninvolved" and "permissive?"

According to Richard Hoskins, Craig Dobbie consulted with him in order to help him understand why Luke Mitchell murdered JJ.

"Whilst working at Bath Spa University, Richard Hoskins was called upon by the Metropolitan Police Service to work as an expert witness in the Torso in the Thames case.[2] He has since been called as an expert witness in over a hundred criminal cases, including numerous high-profile murders, such as those of Victoria Climbié,[4] Jodi Jones and the Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu case.[5][6][7][8] Hoskins has been called upon to provide commentary on these cases and the related field by numerous press organisations.[9][10][11][12][13] He is an expert on African religions.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] He is the only registered multi-cultural expert on the UK national police SOCA database.[2][21][22][23] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Richard_Hoskins.html

He claims to have been profoundly affected by the JJ's case
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DyyAmjhB-koC&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=richard+hoskins+jodi+jones+murder&source=bl&ots=hsAyk5XLGi&sig=Hvf223lApZ2GelCI_ezF_sbyWaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA6ZSLw87dAhVBCuwKHVG1DWkQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=richard%20hoskins%20jodi%20jones%20murder&f=false

Do Luke Mitchell supporters really believe Craig Dobbie hadn't evaluated Luke Mitchell's psychology?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-mitchell-holiday-plan-led-to-jodi-s-murder-1-1401837

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/year-old-murdered-in-dalkeith-itn-scotland-midlothian-news-footage/682496148
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on September 25, 2018, 11:23:29 AM
I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?

Did she give evidence about this in court? I don't remember.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 25, 2018, 11:47:15 AM
Im sure she didnt...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 25, 2018, 11:53:51 AM
Did she give evidence about this in court? I don't remember.

No, it is claimed she bypassed police and court to go straight to the press with this claim. Strange that he supposed to have threatened her 2 years before allegedly killing Jodi but yet did nothing to any other girl in between that time.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 25, 2018, 11:55:16 AM
Also strange that people rely heavily upon certain analysis which is not in Luke's favour whilst totally ignoring analysis which is in his favour...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466367/FBI-profile-of-Jodi-killer-points-to-wrong-verdict
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 25, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Also strange that people rely heavily upon certain analysis which is not in Luke's favour whilst totally ignoring analysis which is in his favour...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466367/FBI-profile-of-Jodi-killer-points-to-wrong-verdict

Which is EXACTLY what you appear to be doing.

A poster on the blue forum stated:
"....what I do with a MOJ case is approach the case with the knowledge that this person has been convicted in a court of law, so there is something there.
Then go back to the start - the evidence used at trial, where it came from. How it was interpreted by the prosecution. Look at the prosecutions case, who was in charge?
Then look at the defence - their statements after the trial, the appeals, what their arguments are as to why LM is innocent and the polcie, the prosecution, the jury got it wrong - where they mis-led by the prosecution of were the defence right and it is the prosecutions who's interpretation of the evidence is wrong.
When you've done that - then what do you believe ... who does your head tell you is right, defence or prosecution.

What methodology do you use?

"When we focus on the human elements of the research process and look at the nine core types of bias – driven from the respondent, the researcher or both – we are able to minimize the potential impact that bias has on qualitative market research.

What "core type" would you say you were? https://www.imoderate.com/blog/9-types-of-research-bias-and-how-to-avoid-them/

"One of the tricks our mind plays is to highlight evidence which confirms what we already believe. If we hear gossip about a rival we tend to think "I knew he was a nasty piece of work"; if we hear the same about our best friend we're more likely to say "that's just a rumour". If you don't trust the government then a change of policy is evidence of their weakness; if you do trust them the same change of policy can be evidence of their inherent reasonableness.
Once you learn about this mental habit – called confirmation bias – you start seeing it everywhere.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170131-why-wont-some-people-listen-to-reason
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 25, 2018, 12:09:17 PM
Also strange that people rely heavily upon certain analysis which is not in Luke's favour whilst totally ignoring analysis which is in his favour...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466367/FBI-profile-of-Jodi-killer-points-to-wrong-verdict

Thanks for sharing that link. Makes interesting reading.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 25, 2018, 12:13:27 PM
Just for the record I am not relying heavily upon anything - just merely pointing out that there are arguments for as well as against.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 25, 2018, 12:16:00 PM
That is what anyone would expect if you are truly looking into a miscarriage of justice in the interest of justice rather than something else...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on September 25, 2018, 12:42:04 PM
I also find it strange that one person can use link after link along with other people's opinion to suggest guilt but if another person does that to suggest innocence it has something to do with "confirmation bias"  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on September 25, 2018, 12:45:57 PM
I didnt take much notice of that post because its irrelevant to the discussion. Justsaying once again a very valid point about what does and doesnt get posted or deleted! Your link was relevant to Luke not just thrown in to distract people from  case . Thanks again
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 25, 2018, 06:45:20 PM
That is what anyone would expect if you are truly looking into a miscarriage of justice in the interest of justice rather than something else...

This makes no sense. What do you mean by "that is what anyone would expect if you truly looking into a miscarriage of justice" and what's the "something else?"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 25, 2018, 06:46:49 PM
Also strange that people rely heavily upon certain analysis which is not in Luke's favour whilst totally ignoring analysis which is in his favour...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/466367/FBI-profile-of-Jodi-killer-points-to-wrong-verdict

Again you are projecting.

How does the link you've posted go in his favour?

"Scottish criminologist Professor David Wilson said there is no particular reason why the report should be kept out of the public domain.

He said: “An analysis like this is merely an investigative tool that may help the police to narrow the field of suspects. It’s not hard evidence that can be used in court.”
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 25, 2018, 06:51:28 PM
I also find it strange that one person can use link after link along with other people's opinion to suggest guilt but if another person does that to suggest innocence it has something to do with "confirmation bias"  *&^^&

Ill ask again

And what his relationship was like with his mother

"When Mrs Mitchell went into the witness box during the trial, despite repeated suggestions from the prosecution that she had lied, she showed no sign of the short fuse Luke told a psychiatrist he had inherited from his mother.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481697/Lies-to-protect-a-son.html

It would be interesting to learn what Luke Mitchell's supporters understanding and interpretations are of the criminal spin. And the impact of his mothers parenting style and the effect it had on him; which appears to have been both "uninvolved" and "permissive?"

Do Luke Mitchell supporters really believe Craig Dobbie hadn't evaluated Luke Mitchell's psychology?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-mitchell-holiday-plan-led-to-jodi-s-murder-1-1401837

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/year-old-murdered-in-dalkeith-itn-scotland-midlothian-news-footage/682496148
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 28, 2018, 10:48:02 AM
People have some strange habits that most people never get to know about. I work with some very vulnerable people who deal with their problems in very unexpected ways. It doesnt highlight their criminality just their struggles.

Are you suggesting that because Luke Mitchell was vulnerable he turned to Satinism? Or that his possible paraphilia for collecting and storing his own urine in numerous bottles and wrapping some of them in his socks and putting them in his bedroom drawers was normal?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=66.msg490168#msg490168
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 29, 2018, 02:17:21 PM
April 2007
"THE BBC was forced to scrap a documentary about murderer Luke Mitchell at the last minute after bosses ruled it was "biased", it was claimed yesterday.
According to BBC insiders, TV chiefs were angry when they watched the programme, claiming it was "anti-police" and "blatant propaganda" for the teenage killer.
The decision to pull the half-hour show, titled Luke Mitchell; The Devil's Own?, came last Tuesday, the day before it was due to be broadcast
But when TV bosses viewed the documentary, made by the flagship Frontline Scotland team, they were appalled and claimed interviews with his mother made Mitchell out to be "a saint". They said it was unfairly critical of the investigating officers and added that the programme lacked impartiality and was unbroadcastable in its current state.

One source said: "They hit the roof. It was not impartial enough and did not given enough right of reply to those it was criticising. It made the mistake of assuming that because he has lodged an appeal that he must be innocent. The truth is that almost every convicted murderer tries to chance their arm by lodging an appeal."
A BBC spokesman said it was not unusual to reschedule programmes and despite the setback, they expected the documentary to be broadcast soon
https://www.scotsman.com/news/bbc-axes-biased-mitchell-documentary-1-1425550


May 2012
If you have indeed read more, then you wouldn't have posted that link to an article which gave a wrong impression about a forensic report. You'd have posted the more complete report which the professor gave on the Frontline documentary I posted. I posted a link to Luke's caseblog early in this thread and explained that there were links to statements and a few documentaries on the subject. One of those documentataries is the Frontline Scotland documentary, which devotes two sizable sections to the theories and opinions of the forensic scientist who examined Jodi. http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/110882-luke-mitchell/&page=13


October 2017
"The BBC, and the Edinburgh News, has a piece on Luke Mitchell today. The Edinburgh News headline and the disgusting comments below make their position clear. The BBC take a more impartial line.
http://www.miscarriagesofjustice.org/luke-mitchell-case-review/


The "impartial line" to which MOJO refer


"Campaigners are working on developing new evidence for Luke Mitchell to appeal his murder conviction.

The 29-year-old was sentenced to life, with a minimum jail term of 20 years, after he was found guilty of murdering his girlfriend Jodi Jones in 2003.

It is hoped the new evidence will support an application for a review by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission.
The body of Jodi Jones, 14, was found in woodland near Dalkeith, Midlothian.
Campaigners are helping the Miscarriages of Justice organisation with efforts towards a new Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission review.

The work involves criminologist Dr Sandra Lean, who was also behind a 2014 appeal bid for him.
In 2011 Mitchell's request to refer his case to the UK Supreme Court was refused by judges at the High Court in Edinburgh.

Judges dismissed claims his human rights were breached when he was questioned by police without a lawyer.

Dr Lean said: "Over the years I've seen all of the evidence including evidence that wasn't before the courts that no jury has ever seen and it just doesn't add up.

"It does not support the case that was brought against Luke.

"There is so much that would shock the public that has never been released and has never been before a court."

"There is information there that demonstrates Luke was not responsible for this terrible murder."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41528919?SThisFB
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 29, 2018, 03:46:21 PM
If I remember correctly, and I feel like all my posts about this case should start like that, all the eye witness testimony was slightly problematic. There was the main one who refused to identify Luke in court, right? And then the two together who's statements changed numerous times regarding where they actually saw him. I remember finding neither of them convincing. And, if I recall, the two didn't see any sign of blood on Luke even though this would have been after he had apparently brutally murdered Jodi and even the prosecution's pathology expert stated that it would have been very unlikely that Luke would not have had blood all over him.

I hope that's all accurate. Maybe I should re-read up on it before commenting anymore. Annoying that all the information isn't in one easy to digest place.

Surely when considering the evidence in this case for or against guilt the source for the evidence is of high importance?!

Do Luke Mitchell supporters really believe Craig Dobbie hadn't evaluated Luke Mitchell's psychology?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-mitchell-holiday-plan-led-to-jodi-s-murder-1-1401837

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/year-old-murdered-in-dalkeith-itn-scotland-midlothian-news-footage/682496148

I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?

Did she give evidence about this in court? I don't remember.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/the-clues-that-snared-a-murderer-1-959390
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 30, 2018, 10:42:38 AM
"Scottish criminologist Professor David Wilson said there is no particular reason why the report should be kept out of the public domain.

He said: “An analysis like this is merely an investigative tool that may help the police to narrow the field of suspects. It’s not hard evidence that can be used in court.”


"One potential motive is the fantasy Luke had about what it would be like to kill someone and get away with it," said Dobbie. "He had said he could imagine himself killing someone and he knew how to. That’s verging on fantasy. He is exhibiting knowledge. And one influence could well have been Marilyn Manson’s depiction of the Black Dahlia murder. No-one can escape from the fact that there are glaring similarities between the dead bodies of Jodi Jones and Elizabeth Short as depicted in Marilyn Manson’s watercolours. He then has to have the opportunity, the catalyst."
https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 30, 2018, 11:15:08 AM
Surely when considering the evidence in this case for or against guilt the source for the evidence is of high importance?!

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7


"They Walk Among Us"- SEASON 2 - EPISODE 13

http://theywalkamonguspodcast.com/new-episodes/2017/12/13/season-2-episode-13
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on September 30, 2018, 03:44:37 PM
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7


"They Walk Among Us"- SEASON 2 - EPISODE 13

http://theywalkamonguspodcast.com/new-episodes/2017/12/13/season-2-episode-13

Part 2 https://player.fm/series/they-walk-among-us-uk-true-crime-1463351/season-2-episode-14
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 06, 2018, 01:29:42 PM
I agree John and then there's his relationship with his mother, her parenting style and quite apparent blurred lines on morality

"Are they courageous mothers who decided to do the right thing? Or is this the ultimate maternal betrayal made by desperate parents
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/vivian-diller-phd/teen-crime_b_2035255.html?guccounter=1
Why did Luke Mitchell kill? His mother holds a clue 
25th January 2005

"AS EVER, the mother is key. Corinne Mitchell is at the heart of the mystery;

the answer to many questions. She is one person who can help explain why Luke Mitchell was able to become the monster he is - indeed, she perhaps understands better than the boy himself, for in her unhealthy relationship with him lies one explanation for his vile and violent actions.

I don't buy this "Luke was evil" stuff.

I think, too, that the focus on Marilyn Manson is to some degree a smokescreen; a frenzy of populist scaremongering about unpleasant teenage culture. Tens of thousands of youngsters adore Marilyn Manson; they don't become murderers. These things are far too facile. No, much of the blame for this tragedy must lie in what went wrong, a long time ago, in the boy's deepest emotional development.

You are what your childhood makes you. If we give credence to the basic psychological tenet that a child's connection with its mother is the biggest inf luence of all in shaping its adult life - as we should - then Corinne Mitchell must bear much responsibility for allowing a 14-year-old boy to become so disturbed that he could kill and maim the way he did. The "why?" is a question many would like her to answer.

It is abundantly clear that things were dreadfully amiss in the Mitchell household: there appears, from the evidence in court, beneath the wellmaintained, affluent surface, to have been a spiritual and psychological squalor which manifested itself in violence, pornography, underage sex, drug-taking, lack of cleanliness and an unusual physical intimacy between son and mother. The trial appeared to expose them as people adrift, cut off from normal emotional and behavioural frameworks.

According to the evidence in the trial, Mrs Mitchell, whose husband had moved out when Luke was 11, apparently had abrogated the role of parent. Friends say Luke "replaced his father and became the man of the family". It was exposed in court that this was a house where anything went.

Her elder son sat at home and looked at pornography on the internet during the day. Luke, her younger son and the favourite, was a little emperor. She did not appear to discipline him, or impose any limits on his behaviour.

She bought him knives. She lied for him. At home, he was allowed to sleep with underage girls; he smoked cannabis; he kept bottles of urine in his bedroom, which was described as a hovel. He stored computers on his bed and appeared to doss on a mattress on the floor.

When the police came to arrest Luke, he was in his mother's bedroom with her. She claimed he was upset and she was comforting him. She betrayed her intense physical closeness to her son whenever they appeared in public: during the interview he gave to Sky News, she constantly stroked his neck and clung to him.

What mother would publicly allow herself to caress her son's neck and face like that? And what 14-year-old son would, just as publicly, allow it to happen? During their controversial visit to Jodi's grave, the pair stood face to face in intimate embrace. Had you not known they were mother and son, you could almost have confused them for girlfriend and boyfriend.

Ian Stephen, a lecturer in forensic psychology at Glasgow Caledonian University and a criminal psychologist, is quoted as saying: "The whole relationship comes across as something quite different from normal. It is almost over-close. You are left with the impression that the son has almost taken on a partner's role. She is almost more like a girlfriend than a mother."

To witness Mrs Mitchell visiting her son in Polmont, the day after he was found guilty, was to be struck by how inappropriately she was dressed: in tight jeans, thigh-high boots, bare midriff. Again, this seemed a strange choice, given her very public role at the trial. It was hardly maternal.

Her conduct from the time of the murder to the conviction appears to suggest that her son, a mere child, had been handed inappropriate control in their relationship. At a time when a 14-year-old boy needs discipline, standards and a strong moral lead, it would appear Corinne Mitchell offered none of these things. Did her relationship with him tip over into a form of abuse?

No-one is saying that. But we can look at the facts which emerged from the trial and judge that this mother-son relationship was beyond the ken of what we recognise as normal.

Corinne Mitchell's own background is not straightforward. She is adopted; her adoptive parents were said to be from a travelling family who had settled south of Edinburgh and started a caravan business. She reportedly has a reputation for being confrontational and anti-authoritarian;

did she carry emotional scars from her own childhood into parenthood?

What went wrong between her and her younger son is something we will never know for sure. Only psychology can decipher the code of their unusual relationship. Many psychologists have written of the tension between parent and child; the established tenets of the science say that children denied appropriate parenting face difficulties trying to live a normal life or understand normal constraints. This would appear to explain why Luke Mitchell seemed to lack any moral roadmap in his life.

In psychological terms, it is often considered that a healthy, loving and supportive mother-son relationship is the most important thing necessary to provide the world with the historical and emotional foundations of culture, law, civility . . . and decency.

Even if we only accept this in the broadest terms, the theory has resonance in Jodi's murder, where these essential qualities were apparently absent in Luke Mitchell.

The modern theories of analysis say that a child's emotional life is inextricably bound up from the earliest age in a triangular relationship between themselves, their mother and their father. When things go wrong between the adults, or between parent and child, the child suffers anxieties and guilt. They feel at risk, excluded, responsible.

Nobody knows what Luke Mitchell went through as a little boy when his family fell apart. But it seems that something went drastically wrong after his father, an electrician, moved away.

In this way, broken families can create chaotic, fragmented lives. In this age of divorce, psychologists describe children "lost" because of estrangement between parents. "They cannot get on in life, because there is no living relationship in the lee of which they can prosper. Sometimes they stay very still, lest the stasis give way to something far worse, " says Robert Young, from the Centre for Psychotherapeutic Studies at Sheffield University. The tragedy is that Luke Mitchell, a boy psychologically severed from decency and appropriate behaviour, did not stay very still. And that "something far worse" did indeed happen.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12402619.Why_did_Luke_Mitchell_kill__His_mother_holds_a_clue/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 09, 2018, 01:26:58 PM
Which is EXACTLY what you appear to be doing.

A poster on the blue forum stated:
"....what I do with a MOJ case is approach the case with the knowledge that this person has been convicted in a court of law, so there is something there.
Then go back to the start - the evidence used at trial, where it came from. How it was interpreted by the prosecution. Look at the prosecutions case, who was in charge?
Then look at the defence - their statements after the trial, the appeals, what their arguments are as to why LM is innocent and the polcie, the prosecution, the jury got it wrong - where they mis-led by the prosecution of were the defence right and it is the prosecutions who's interpretation of the evidence is wrong.
When you've done that - then what do you believe ... who does your head tell you is right, defence or prosecution.

What methodology do you use?

"When we focus on the human elements of the research process and look at the nine core types of bias – driven from the respondent, the researcher or both – we are able to minimize the potential impact that bias has on qualitative market research.

What "core type" would you say you were? https://www.imoderate.com/blog/9-types-of-research-bias-and-how-to-avoid-them/

"One of the tricks our mind plays is to highlight evidence which confirms what we already believe. If we hear gossip about a rival we tend to think "I knew he was a nasty piece of work"; if we hear the same about our best friend we're more likely to say "that's just a rumour". If you don't trust the government then a change of policy is evidence of their weakness; if you do trust them the same change of policy can be evidence of their inherent reasonableness.
Once you learn about this mental habit – called confirmation bias – you start seeing it everywhere.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170131-why-wont-some-people-listen-to-reason

https://ewds.strath.ac.uk/Portals/50/IASMiscarriages_Justice_Report.pdf
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 09, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
I don't want to go over old territory too much but Luke Mitchell did threaten another girlfriend with a knife and she counts herself lucky to have escaped unscathed.  They say lightning doesn't strike the same spot twice but is this yet another coincidence too far?

Did she give evidence about this in court? I don't remember.

Im sure she didnt...

Thiere are similarities in the Will Cornick case and this case https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/04/ann-maguire-will-cornick-reporting-restrictions-judge
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 09, 2018, 09:42:47 PM
"One potential motive is the fantasy Luke had about what it would be like to kill someone and get away with it," said Dobbie. "He had said he could imagine himself killing someone and he knew how to. That’s verging on fantasy. He is exhibiting knowledge. And one influence could well have been Marilyn Manson’s depiction of the Black Dahlia murder. No-one can escape from the fact that there are glaring similarities between the dead bodies of Jodi Jones and Elizabeth Short as depicted in Marilyn Manson’s watercolours. He then has to have the opportunity, the catalyst."
https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861

"The jury in the Jodi Jones murder trial has heard evidence from a girl described as a look-alike for the dead Midlothian teenager.
Kimberley Thomson told the jury she had been the girlfriend of Luke Mitchell, the youth accused of murdering Jodi.

The High Court in Edinburgh heard that Miss Thomson, 15, met Mr Mitchell a year before he is alleged to have killed Jodi Jones.

He denies killing the 14-year-old schoolgirl in Dalkeith in June 2003.

Earlier during Thursday's proceedings, supermarket worker Robert Gilhooly, 17, who was described as a friend of Mr Mitchell's, said he had seen a photo of Miss Thomson and thought it was Jodi.

He told the jury that Mr Mitchell, 16, had also remarked on the likeness

Mr Gilhooly said: "He mentioned that they looked alike. He said they were almost identical."

Miss Thomson said that when she read about Jodi's death and the fact that Jodi had been Mr Mitchell's girlfriend, she was annoyed.

She said: "I was upset. I knew he had obviously been cheating on me."

Miss Thomson, from Kenmore, in Perthshire, said she got to know Mr Mitchell during the summer of 2002 when he came to her local area on holiday with his mother.

"He was a friend of my brother," she said.

Prosecuting advocate Alan Turnbull QC asked: "By the time the holiday had finished had you and he become friends?"

She replied that they were and added: "When he left, that was when we started dating."

The jury heard how Miss Thomson read about Jodi's death
When asked how she would describe her relationship with Mr Mitchell, she said: "Boyfriend and girlfriend."

Miss Thomson said they phoned each other and may have sent text messages as well.

Mr Mitchell visited Kenmore in the autumn of 2002 and Miss Thomson stayed at the Mitchell home in Dalkeith from Boxing Day until just after New Year.

The accused also visited her on St Valentine's Day 2003.

Miss Thomson said Mr Mitchell was supposed to visit her last summer but this was "cancelled".

The teenager believed the visit was due to have been the weekend before Jodi was murdered but, when questioned about whether it could have been later, she said she could not remember.

Miss Thomson said she considered herself to be Mr Mitchell's girlfriend last summer.

Recalling how a friend showed her a newspaper article after Jodi's murder, she said: "Luke's name was in it and Dalkeith as well.

"His girlfriend had been murdered, or something like that."

Mr Turnbull asked if she had sent a text message to Mr Mitchell demanding an explanation.

"I cannot remember," Miss Thomson replied.

The court earlier heard of a six-hour police interview with Luke Mitchell where he was asked why he had not contacted Jodi when she failed to turn up to meet him as arranged.

Detective Sergeant George Thomson told the court Luke Mitchell had told them that he thought Jodi had met somebody else and had gone off with them.

But prosecutor Alan Turnbull QC put it to him that: "These two youngsters had met up every night, if they could, and she had only once before failed to keep an arrangement."

Sgt Thomson replied: "That is correct."

It has been alleged that Mr Mitchell attacked Jodi in woods near Roan's Dyke on 30 June, 2003.

He has denied that and claims that at the time he was in, or near, his home, and that Jodi was murdered by person or persons unknown.

He has also denied charges of possessing knives in public places and being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin to other school pupils, including Jodi. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4135539.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 12, 2018, 12:58:15 PM
Would be interested to hear your views re the possibility the motivation for murder was erotophonophilia.

Have Mitchell supporters and those campaigning on his behalf considered this?

Could Luke Mitchell be trusted to tell the truth given he was a drug addict?

2009
"The case also centred on Mitchell's character, his supposedly unemotional reaction to Jodi's death and that he carried knives, sold cannabis and was interested in satanism. After the longest trial of a single accused in Scottish legal history, a majority verdict convicted Mitchell and he was sentenced to life, with a minimum term of 20 years to be served before parole

In the years following the verdict there has been some unease at the circumstantial nature of the case, but an appeal was rejected last year.

Now Mitchell's new defence team is preparing to apply for a fresh appeal based partly on the original forensics investigation, the details of which have never before been made public. The new defence team say the original police forensic service laboratory report and biology report contradict the prosecution case that the murder did not have a sexual motive, as semen was found on Jodi's body.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/aug/02/luke-mitchell-jodi-jones-appeal

So a fresh appeal will be based partly on the original forcesics? What about Luke Mitchell's character? How will a fresh appeal support claims of innocence given he was allegedly already showing signs of violence at 11 years old?

Will his psychiatric reports also be placed into the public domain? As far as I'm aware these have never been made public either?

Following Simon Halls confession and subsequent disclosures they too contradicted the prosecutions case? How will this help Mitchell?

Could evidence of a sexually motivated crime increase the length of time Mitchell is incarcerated?

How can a new theory with regards motive overturn this conviction?

Ok, just so we are clear, although some of my other posts probably explain this. In my opinion the conviction is questionable based on the fact other people's DNA was found at the scene. Will that do?

"DNA evidence is not the evidence it's cracked up to be" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BSgRnOo2cxI#

"I understand that there was no physical evidence linking Mitchell to the scene and given the nature of the event and relationship with Jodi, I think that that requires an explanation as well. So, I mean, what can I say about evidence that’s not there?

I'd like to hear Mr Jamieson's thoughts (expert opinion) on the "psychology of science" in this case, presuming of course he's considered them? And what he has to say with regards the evidence (that convicted Mitchell) that is there?
https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-26/edition-12/psychology-scientific-thought-and-behaviour

"The organisation approached Jamieson after accessing the forensic files, which stated that amongst 122 items gathered "from the crime scene, not one could be linked to him. http://files.heraldscotland.com/news/16881797.luke-mitchell-interview-forensic-scientist-professor-alan-jamieson/

Was he not aware of it before? Wouldn't there be a conflict of interest?

"There is no timeline involved with a case of this magnitude. “What I’m interested in is fair trials, and that significantly reduces the chance of a miscarriage of justice”, says Jamieson.

I agree, whilst being mindful that one of those "circumstances" could very well be that he is not the killer.

Who else could it be? Haven't numerous names already been put forward over the years by those representing Luke Mitchell?

If I remember correctly, and I feel like all my posts about this case should start like that, all the eye witness testimony was slightly problematic. There was the main one who refused to identify Luke in court, right? And then the two together who's statements changed numerous times regarding where they actually saw him. I remember finding neither of them convincing. And, if I recall, the two didn't see any sign of blood on Luke even though this would have been after he had apparently brutally murdered Jodi and even the prosecution's pathology expert stated that it would have been very unlikely that Luke would not have had blood all over him.

I hope that's all accurate. Maybe I should re-read up on it before commenting anymore. Annoying that all the information isn't in one easy to digest place.

And convenient for Mitchell and his campaigners

Considering the amount of posts that were deleted yesterday for going off the subject of Is Luke Mitchell guilty, dont see how this is relevant to what Baz posted.

Just another given opportunity to snipe at Sandra, very sad!

"Since the verdict, concern has emerged about the chain of events at Mitchell’s school, St David’s High, Dalkeith, preceding the murder and whether staff and the education authority could have done more to curb his disturbing behaviour.

Scotland on Sunday can reveal that Mitchell was first drawn to the attention of child psychiatrists at the age of 11 after a fight at primary school. His drug-taking and knife-carrying were no secret among fellow pupils and his fondness for violence and Satanism was known to teachers.

Since the trial it has emerged that he had threatened at least one other girl with a knife before he killed Jodi.

But at a time when official policy was to avoid excluding troublesome pupils, Mitchell was allowed to remain at the school, mixing with other youngsters one of whom would eventually pay for her relationship with him with her life
https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-mitchell-holiday-plan-led-to-jodi-s-murder-1-1401837

What is the "official policy" with regards "troublesome pupils" at the school now?

https://www.stdavidshighschool.co.uk/our_school/school_documents/information.html

Does anyone know Sandra Lean's views on the schools official policy on excluding troublesome pupils?

Could staff and the education authority have done more to curb his disturbing behaviour?

Was 11 year old Luke Mitchell's behaviour brushed under the carpet?

Did the jury get to hear psychiatric evidence of 11 year old Mitchell? Was it relevant?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 12, 2018, 03:13:54 PM
No, it is claimed she bypassed police and court to go straight to the press with this claim. Strange that he supposed to have threatened her 2 years before allegedly killing Jodi but yet did nothing to any other girl in between that time.

When did this alleged event occur?

What does Luke Mitchell say about this?

And what does he have to say about his violent/aggressive behaviour from age 11 to trial?

What does he give as causation?
 
Did he have therapy/help? Or did he self medicate to calm himself?

Being a 14 year old child is no defence when faced with a murder charge. Why didn't Mitchell or his defence team use evidence to show his aggression hasn't escalated between the age of 11 & 14 for example?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 12, 2018, 08:40:07 PM
Thank you Baz. It also worries me that the DNA of another person was found at the scene but none from Luke himself.

That still does not negate the fact that someone else's DNA was found at the scene yet none belonging to Luke. Could you clean every bit of your DNA from around the places you have been without being able to see where it is?

Good point Baz! Now let us imagine that the sperm was on the t-shirt before it was loaned to Jodi. It would have certainly been dry by the time she was given it, otherwise she would have noticed it was soiled. So how would it seep through to her bra?

My understanding of the DNA evidence in this case is as much as anyone else's on this forum. Are you suggesting lies have been told regarding DNA evidence? Are you saying Luke's DNA was in fact found at the scene?

Well it is my understanding, as much as everyone else who has commented, that someone else's DNA was found at the scene but Luke's was not. I also understand that most DNA is invisible based on the information I have read written by those who understand it far better than I do - i.e. scientists and other professionals alike.

Perhaps, but that still does not explain how Lukes DNA was not at the scene. He was just 14 years of age at the time, I doubt he was "forensically aware" as you put it and I very much doubt he will have been able to clean up invisible traces of DNA. So what would be your take on this?

I think it is obvious that my motivation is based on the fact that I think Luke Mitchell is innocent.
<EDIT> Apologies, I thought that was aimed at me, but at least you now know my motivation.

So you are suggesting that Luke's DNA WAS found at the scene? Wouldn't that be direct evidence?

And, in all fairness, we still have not seen a source that suggests there was a partial DNA match, so it is safe to assume there is not one, especially considering the CPS failed to use any such thing during the trial.

"Jodi's DNA was found on the accussed's trousers but this could have occurred through an "innocent transfer".

"Ms Ure said a stain on a bra Jodi had been wearing showed DNA traces from more than two individuals - some of which matched parts of Luke Mitchell's genetic profile.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4098795.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 13, 2018, 02:32:26 PM
"Jodi's DNA was found on the accussed's trousers but this could have occurred through an "innocent transfer".

"Ms Ure said a stain on a bra Jodi had been wearing showed DNA traces from more than two individuals - some of which matched parts of Luke Mitchell's genetic profile.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4098795.stm

"Donald Findlay QC, defending Luke Mitchell, suggested to Ms Ure that DNA could be found in a completely "sinister place but have a wholly innocent explanation" to which she agreed.

Mr Findlay said the court had heard in some detail of Jodi and Luke's relationship and added: "Boyfriend, girlfriend, being intimate with each other.


As was pointed out a few years ago by another poster elsewhere regarding Luke Mitchell's DNA;

"The prosecution and defence were both in agreement that it existed"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 13, 2018, 04:51:37 PM
I agree, whilst being mindful that one of those "circumstances" could very well be that he is not the killer.

June 2010
"THE MOTHER of Luke Mitchell is involved in an internet campaign blaming another man for Jodi Jones’ murder.

Corrine Mitchell has always protested her son’s innocence, and has now joined forces with investigative campaigner Sandra Lean to point the finger at another man.

They claim on an internet forum that DNA evidence links the man with the brutal 2003 stabbing.

And the man in question said he was aware of the claims against him.

He said: “I know what these people are saying about me.

“I will deal with this in my own time

Luke Mitchell, 22, was convicted of the murder of his 14-year-old girlfriend in 2005.

But his mum recently posted on an internet forum that evidence points to someone else.

She wrote: “X’s semen and blood were on Jodi’s T-shirt…his description and clothing matched a witness statement of a male ‘following Jodi’…he was known to the police.

“Is it me or is anyone else adding things up here?

“Description of man seen behind Jodi – grey hooded top.

“Several days after the murder X hands his grey hooded top to the police saying it has been washed.

“At 5pm X’s alibi is Janine (Jodi’s sister).

“The police accepted that Janine said, ‘he was with me’ and from him ‘ I was with her’.”


Sandra lean November 2015:
  If I don't do this, then it's all the false and misleading inforrmation that gets left out there, and that's what people are left with to draw their conclusions from - that just doesn't sit right with me.

" My argument is not, and has never been, "It wasn't Luke who killed Jodi - I know this because it was X."http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg336117.html#msg336117


And Sandra Lean, author and researcher on miscarriages of justice, added: “Our Mr X is emerging as more and more suspicious.

“The info that’s coming our way is shocking, especially as the police should have been onto this stuff right from the beginning.

Another poster said: “Jodi wore a T-shirt which had DNA on it from X yet no other was found.

You can really only take one conclusion from that.”

Sandra Lean – who publically supports Mrs Mitchell is her quest to clear her son’s name – denied she was accusing the man of murder.

She said: “No-one is accusing anyone.

“There’s a danger in pointing the finger but in many ways he’s pointing the finger at himself

“Any line of enquiry that might establish who killed Jodi is worth pursuing.”

Jodi Jones was found murdered on a footpath near her home in Dalkeith in June 2003.

Her boyfriend Luke Mitchell was charged with her murder ten months later and found guilty and sentenced to 20 years behind bars

Mitchell is currently appealing against the length of his sentence
http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2010/06/20/mitchells-mum-points-finger-at-another-man-for-jodi-killing/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 13, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
No DNA link in Jodi Jones murder

Jodi Jones was killed in June last year
The Jodi Jones trial has heard there was no DNA evidence to link her boyfriend to her murder.
The High Court in Edinburgh heard no genetic material from Luke Mitchell, which could not be "innocently explained", was found on her body.
Jodi's DNA was found on the accussed's trousers but this could have occurred through an "innocent transfer".
Luke Mitchell, 16, has denied murdering girlfriend Jodi and has lodged special defences of alibi and incrimination.
Genetic search
The court heard forensic teams had spent 18 months examining hundreds of items, including clothing from Luke Mitchell, in a bid to find DNA clues as to the murderer's identity.
Tayside Police forensic scientist Susan Ure spoke about the work carried out comparing bloodstains found at the murder scene and other reference samples, taken from members of her family and Luke Mitchell.
Ms Ure said a stain on a bra Jodi had been wearing showed DNA traces from more than two individuals - some of which matched parts of Luke Mitchell's genetic profile.
She said: "We could tell there was some male DNA present but we couldn't tell whether one or both of the second individuals were males."
 
DNA from Steven Kelly, the fiancé of Jodi's sister, Janine, showed up on the t-shirt Jodi was wearing. But the trial has heard that the t-shirt actually belonged to Janine.
It was also explained about the ways in which DNA could be transferred, for example, between strangers sitting close on a train.
Donald Findlay QC, defending Luke Mitchell, suggested to Ms Ure that DNA could be found in a completely "sinister place but have a wholly innocent explanation" to which she agreed.
Mr Findlay said the court had heard in some detail of Jodi and Luke's relationship and added: "Boyfriend, girlfriend, being intimate with each other.
"The girl brutally done to death and a young man sitting in court here charged with her murder.
"Looking at that picture, in all the DNA analyses you carried out one, and only one, bit of Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers and that could be a perfectly innocent transfer."
Ms Ure replied: "Yes it could."
Charges denied
The murder charge alleges Luke Mitchell attacked Jodi, of Easthouses, Dalkeith, in woods near Roan's Dyke.
The youngster denies that and claims that at the time he was in, or near, his home, and that Jodi, 14, was murdered by person or persons unknown.
He also denies charges of possessing knives in public places and being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin to other school pupils, including Jodi.
The trial continues.


Quite a conflicting article to say the least. (lets just ignore that parts where it is said no DNA was found though) It seems the defence was in agreement that Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers, however these were trousers which had not been worn by him on the night of Jodi's murder. I do not see the defence agreeing that his DNA was found at the scene though. It seems, from this article alone, that there was a number of peoples DNA found on Jodi. I will not pretend to know about DNA, I am not an expert, but I wonder how many other males would share those markers considering it could not have been a full DNA profile...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 13, 2018, 07:44:57 PM
No DNA link in Jodi Jones murder

Jodi Jones was killed in June last year
The Jodi Jones trial has heard there was no DNA evidence to link her boyfriend to her murder.
The High Court in Edinburgh heard no genetic material from Luke Mitchell, which could not be "innocently explained", was found on her body.
Jodi's DNA was found on the accussed's trousers but this could have occurred through an "innocent transfer".
Luke Mitchell, 16, has denied murdering girlfriend Jodi and has lodged special defences of alibi and incrimination.
Genetic search
The court heard forensic teams had spent 18 months examining hundreds of items, including clothing from Luke Mitchell, in a bid to find DNA clues as to the murderer's identity.
Tayside Police forensic scientist Susan Ure spoke about the work carried out comparing bloodstains found at the murder scene and other reference samples, taken from members of her family and Luke Mitchell.
Ms Ure said a stain on a bra Jodi had been wearing showed DNA traces from more than two individuals - some of which matched parts of Luke Mitchell's genetic profile.
She said: "We could tell there was some male DNA present but we couldn't tell whether one or both of the second individuals were males."
 
DNA from Steven Kelly, the fiancé of Jodi's sister, Janine, showed up on the t-shirt Jodi was wearing. But the trial has heard that the t-shirt actually belonged to Janine.
It was also explained about the ways in which DNA could be transferred, for example, between strangers sitting close on a train.
Donald Findlay QC, defending Luke Mitchell, suggested to Ms Ure that DNA could be found in a completely "sinister place but have a wholly innocent explanation" to which she agreed.
Mr Findlay said the court had heard in some detail of Jodi and Luke's relationship and added: "Boyfriend, girlfriend, being intimate with each other.
"The girl brutally done to death and a young man sitting in court here charged with her murder.
"Looking at that picture, in all the DNA analyses you carried out one, and only one, bit of Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers and that could be a perfectly innocent transfer."
Ms Ure replied: "Yes it could."
Charges denied
The murder charge alleges Luke Mitchell attacked Jodi, of Easthouses, Dalkeith, in woods near Roan's Dyke.
The youngster denies that and claims that at the time he was in, or near, his home, and that Jodi, 14, was murdered by person or persons unknown.
He also denies charges of possessing knives in public places and being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin to other school pupils, including Jodi.
The trial continues.


Quite a conflicting article to say the least. (lets just ignore that parts where it is said no DNA was found though) It seems the defence was in agreement that Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers, however these were trousers which had not been worn by him on the night of Jodi's murder. I do not see the defence agreeing that his DNA was found at the scene though. It seems, from this article alone, that there was a number of peoples DNA found on Jodi. I will not pretend to know about DNA, I am not an expert, but I wonder how many other males would share those markers considering it could not have been a full DNA profile...

Try highlighting the actual factual words that were used during the trial as opposed to the interpretation of a journalist!
And remember this was the evidence presented at trial ergo this is the evidence heard by the jury who found Luke Mitchell guilty.

You can keep the circular argument going for as long as you wish but it won't change the facts nor help Luke Mitchell in anyway shape or form.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 13, 2018, 07:51:52 PM
June 2010
"THE MOTHER of Luke Mitchell is involved in an internet campaign blaming another man for Jodi Jones’ murder.

Corrine Mitchell has always protested her son’s innocence, and has now joined forces with investigative campaigner Sandra Lean to point the finger at another man.

They claim on an internet forum that DNA evidence links the man with the brutal 2003 stabbing.

And the man in question said he was aware of the claims against him.

He said: “I know what these people are saying about me.

“I will deal with this in my own time

Luke Mitchell, 22, was convicted of the murder of his 14-year-old girlfriend in 2005.

But his mum recently posted on an internet forum that evidence points to someone else.

She wrote: “X’s semen and blood were on Jodi’s T-shirt…his description and clothing matched a witness statement of a male ‘following Jodi’…he was known to the police.

“Is it me or is anyone else adding things up here?

“Description of man seen behind Jodi – grey hooded top.

“Several days after the murder X hands his grey hooded top to the police saying it has been washed.

“At 5pm X’s alibi is Janine (Jodi’s sister).

“The police accepted that Janine said, ‘he was with me’ and from him ‘ I was with her’.”


Sandra lean November 2015:
  If I don't do this, then it's all the false and misleading inforrmation that gets left out there, and that's what people are left with to draw their conclusions from - that just doesn't sit right with me.

" My argument is not, and has never been, "It wasn't Luke who killed Jodi - I know this because it was X."http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg336117.html#msg336117


And Sandra Lean, author and researcher on miscarriages of justice, added: “Our Mr X is emerging as more and more suspicious.

“The info that’s coming our way is shocking, especially as the police should have been onto this stuff right from the beginning.

Another poster said: “Jodi wore a T-shirt which had DNA on it from X yet no other was found.

You can really only take one conclusion from that.”

Sandra Lean – who publically supports Mrs Mitchell is her quest to clear her son’s name – denied she was accusing the man of murder.

She said: “No-one is accusing anyone.

“There’s a danger in pointing the finger but in many ways he’s pointing the finger at himself

“Any line of enquiry that might establish who killed Jodi is worth pursuing.”

Jodi Jones was found murdered on a footpath near her home in Dalkeith in June 2003.

Her boyfriend Luke Mitchell was charged with her murder ten months later and found guilty and sentenced to 20 years behind bars

Mitchell is currently appealing against the length of his sentence
http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2010/06/20/mitchells-mum-points-finger-at-another-man-for-jodi-killing/

As the above shows - Sandra Lean has been caught lying and attempting to manipulate.by others. It's a matter of public record

And this is just one example of many .
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 13, 2018, 07:53:49 PM
They are all words of a journalist, quite conflicting ones at that - on that basis I choose not to trust the article in it's entirety. (Even the headline says no DNA etc)

There are plenty of other articles which support no DNA being found also. (but let's just ignore them all too)

Not like the journalists were batting on Luke's side either way - so I doubt they would have been willing to lie for him. Lying about him on the other hand, well that is a different story.

There are plenty of juries who find people guilty who get it very wrong indeed - just ask those poor people who have spent years in prison before being exonerated...

I won't be drawn into a further argument with you, just popped in to make my point about the article. I will leave you talking to yourself again.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 13, 2018, 08:39:47 PM
"The Jodi Jones murder trial was told sex, drugs, knives and Satan were the main interests of Luke Mitchell, the 16-year-old who was today found guilty of murdering the youngster.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481696/Profile-of-a-teenage-killer.html

Photos of some exhibits can be seen here
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4962066/Murderer-jailed-life-fresh-bid-clear-name.html

Sex drugs knives and Satan are not normal past times for any 14 year old boy!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 13, 2018, 08:52:20 PM
I read the comments underneath the daily mail article - one said... "If he was convicted based on an interest in the occult then about a fifth of the teenagers in Britain could have done it!"

Another said the scribblings on the jotter are song lyrics...

So he was a goth, big deal! So he smoked cannabis, so do hundreds, if not thousands of kids!

Still not enough to convict - in my opinion.

Just me making another point.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 15, 2018, 11:23:26 AM
I read the comments underneath the daily mail article - one said... "If he was convicted based on an interest in the occult then about a fifth of the teenagers in Britain could have done it!"

Another said the scribblings on the jotter are song lyrics...

So he was a goth, big deal! So he smoked cannabis, so do hundreds, if not thousands of kids!

Still not enough to convict - in my opinion.

Just me making another point.

What point are you making?

Luke Mitchell had motive,means and the opportunity. Did all those mentioned in the comments?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 15, 2018, 04:55:30 PM
What was his motive? I am sure there were other people who had "means" and "opportunity" also!

Still not enough evidence to convict - in my opinion.

As you say, we can go around in circles. You keep bringing things up, it won't change my mind, I've read/seen it all before.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on October 15, 2018, 08:20:37 PM
Why would a fourteen year old want to murder his girlfriend in such a ghastly way?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 15, 2018, 09:22:35 PM
Why would a fourteen year old want to murder his girlfriend in such a ghastly way?

Because he was a goth and smoked cannabis... apparently...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 16, 2018, 06:08:13 PM
Because he was a goth and smoked cannabis... apparently...

Have you met the Mitchell's? Sandra Lean?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 16, 2018, 08:06:49 PM
Have you met the Mitchell's? Sandra Lean?

What has this got to do with Luke Mitchell being innocent or guilty? I do not judge people by their families or who they know, I am not that shallow.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on October 17, 2018, 06:29:57 PM
What has this got to do with Luke Mitchell being innocent or guilty? I do not judge people by their families or who they know, I am not that shallow.



If Luke were to "confess" to killing Jodi, what would be your reaction?  Would you automatically think he was guilty?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 18, 2018, 03:43:00 PM


If Luke were to "confess" to killing Jodi, what would be your reaction?  Would you automatically think he was guilty?

Why do you ask? If it is in relation to Tabak - he has more than a confession against him. I think I explained this on Tabak's thread - it was not just the confession that led to his conviction.

However - if Luke were  to plead guilty at this stage it would certainly change my view of the whole case considering the length of time he has already spent in prison for the crime. That being said - I know some people end up confessing to crimes purely because they want to get parole. It would not change my view of the case against him at the time of trial being very weak - unlike Tabaks.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on October 18, 2018, 04:02:26 PM
Why do you ask? If it is in relation to Tabak - he has more than a confession against him. I think I explained this on Tabak's thread - it was not just the confession that led to his conviction.

However - if Luke were  to plead guilty at this stage it would certainly change my view of the whole case considering the length of time he has already spent in prison for the crime. That being said - I know some people end up confessing to crimes purely because they want to get parole. It would not change my view of the case against him at the time of trial being very weak - unlike Tabaks.

Thanks for answering! I agree with you that the case against Luke was very weak.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 19, 2018, 11:02:24 AM
In 2008 appeal Court Judges stated (among other things):

"As to other matters of complaint, while there may be cases where the combined effect of a series of unsatisfactory features in a trial may result in a miscarriage of justice, we are not persuaded that this is such a case [/b].
 https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 19, 2018, 11:32:53 AM
Because he was a goth and smoked cannabis... apparently...

Did he have previous convictions?


"For example, it did not involve the revelation of previous convictions"  - taken from para (55)
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 19, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
Thanks for answering! I agree with you that the case against Luke was very weak.

Donald Findley QC said anyone looking at the evidence in totality would "be left with a sense of unease."

The appeal judges concluded:

"[185] Mr Findlay submitted finally that, even if no particular ground of appeal on its own warranted quashing of the conviction, the matters complained of when taken together were such as should lead to that result. Anyone looking at the evidence in totality, he said, would 'be left with a sense of unease'. We have already addressed and rejected the ground of appeal based on the proposition that no reasonable jury, having regard to the totality of the evidence, could have returned a guilty verdict. As to other matters of complaint, while there may be cases (for example, where the cumulative effect of a number of criticisms of a charge amounts to a misdirection - see Meighan v HM Advocate 2002 S.C.C.R. 779 at para.[15]) where the combined effect of a series of unsatisfactory features in a trial may result in a miscarriage of justice, we are not persuaded that this is such a case. Some general concern, or unease, in relation to a particular conviction, with no further specification, has never been recognised as a basis upon which a conviction could be disturbed (Harper v HM Advocate, at para.[35]).
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 19, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
What has this got to do with Luke Mitchell being innocent or guilty? I do not judge people by their families or who they know, I am not that shallow.

Following my experiences, I do not think it at all shallow to learn more about the people campaigning on behalf of people like Luke Mitchell. There motives, agendas, egos etc.

I came to learn that some mothers for example are prepared to lie under oath and will go to great lengths in an attempt to cover up both the true character and behaviours of their sons and indeed themselves in order to present a facade of normalcy and to sustain the lie.

With hindsight Simon Hall was highly narcissistic.

"Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder have a very distorted sense of self. They are generally “grandiose”, which means they have an inflated or exaggerated opinion of their positive traits and / or abilities. Even though some are very attractive, highly intelligent, or exceptionally talented, narcissists typically regard themselves as elite or exceptional compared to everyone else. Regardless of their actual social standing, they perceive themselves as very important – and expect others to view them as such.

Narcissists thrive on the praise and admiration of others. Their air of superiority is exaggerated often quite obvious, although some narcissists are very skilled at pretending to be humble when necessary. However, their grandiosity can easily be shattered by criticism from others. When this occurs, it usually elicits rage, rejection, or a torrent of condescending remarks skillfully rendered to put the offending person in his or her place.

Narcissists, as a general rule, are very selfish. They have very little, if any, empathy for others. They may pretend to, however. Successful narcissists can initially come across as very understanding, very giving, and very selfless. In time, however, this façade will crack because they can’t sustain it. Their true colors always show eventually. Sadly, this can be quite a shock to anyone who was initially fooled by their act
. https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/mental-health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/

Looking at a persons character and behaviours can give away many clues with regards the innocence/guilty argument imo.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on October 26, 2018, 12:33:55 PM
http://longroadtojustice.com/?fbclid=IwAR2jERbpWdXPqRT99NE5zNuKmy9M0A9-96TNVWoHGWF4Onjs7ERbPIZjkNA

Sandra Lean has a new book out, seems to be about Luke Mitchell's case. I will have to wait till pay day to order but thought others might like to know.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on October 26, 2018, 02:18:01 PM
http://longroadtojustice.com/?fbclid=IwAR2jERbpWdXPqRT99NE5zNuKmy9M0A9-96TNVWoHGWF4Onjs7ERbPIZjkNA

Sandra Lean has a new book out, seems to be about Luke Mitchell's case. I will have to wait till pay day to order but thought others might like to know.

Thanks Baz.

I am currently re reading her first book---very interesting.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on October 26, 2018, 03:29:47 PM
Thanks Baz.

I am currently re reading her first book---very interesting.

You're welcome.

It was a long time ago I read her first but I remember it being interesting!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 27, 2018, 10:36:00 AM


If Luke were to "confess" to killing Jodi, what would be your reaction?  Would you automatically think he was guilty?

"Rebecca Aylward, 15, died after Joshua Davies lured her to woods near Aberkenfig, Bridgend, and attacked her with a rock in October 2010.
Davies was jailed for 14 years, but only confessed in September 2017

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45946631

Parents of Rebecca Aylwards killer Josh Davies say he's innocent
Now, explaining their reason for going public for the first time, Mr and Mrs Davies insisted they did not want people to “take sides”, adding: “We just want people to know the truth.

“We just want to get our story out once, and that’s it. People can make their own minds up.”

In an astonishingly frank interview the couple – who still believe their son is innocent – revealed:

Their horror when they first learnt the son, who had “never been in trouble”, had been arrested in connection with a brutal murder;

How they had wanted to reach out to Becca’s family, but had been warned off by police; and

Their son had started collecting old and antique knives, swords and guns at the age of nine – but that he was not “disturbed”.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/parents-rebecca-aylward-killer-josh-1817274
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 27, 2018, 10:57:07 AM
"Rebecca Aylward, 15, died after Joshua Davies lured her to woods near Aberkenfig, Bridgend, and attacked her with a rock in October 2010.
Davies was jailed for 14 years, but only confessed in September 2017

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45946631

Parents of Rebecca Aylwards killer Josh Davies say he's innocent
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/parents-rebecca-aylward-killer-josh-1817274

I have read the book about Rebecca Aylward - it is far removed from Luke's case.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bye-Mam-Love-You-Daughters/dp/178219987X
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 27, 2018, 11:14:53 AM
I have read the book about Rebecca Aylward - it is far removed from Luke's case.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bye-Mam-Love-You-Daughters/dp/178219987X

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJy7kJzI3Vc
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 27, 2018, 11:23:47 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJy7kJzI3Vc

Not sure what this has to do with the cases being entirely different. There was a huge amount of evidence to convict Davies - Luke, as we all know, was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence.

Davies killed Rebecca for the price of a breakfast, he had also been poisoning her in the weeks leading up to her tragic death - clearly disturbed, and clearly guilty on the evidence presented.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 27, 2018, 12:49:23 PM
http://longroadtojustice.com/?fbclid=IwAR2jERbpWdXPqRT99NE5zNuKmy9M0A9-96TNVWoHGWF4Onjs7ERbPIZjkNA

Sandra Lean has a new book out, seems to be about Luke Mitchell's case. I will have to wait till pay day to order but thought others might like to know.

Ive just ordered it. Wishing Sandra all the very best as always
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 08:26:27 AM
Not sure what this has to do with the cases being entirely different. There was a huge amount of evidence to convict Davies - Luke, as we all know, was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence.

Davies killed Rebecca for the price of a breakfast, he had also been poisoning her in the weeks leading up to her tragic death - clearly disturbed, and clearly guilty on the evidence presented.

What leads a child to murder?

"What leads a child to kill is complex, said Mr Willis, but, more often than not, a poor upbringing has a big role to play.

Robert Kinscherff, a clinical psychologist and senior associate at the US’ National Centre for Mental Health and Juvenile Justice, said children that kill usually fall into one of three categories.

Speaking in 2014, to newspaper the Gazette, Mr Kinscherff said around 90 per cent of culprits were severely abused or had witnessed abuse such as between their parents; up to five per cent presented with mental health issues and four per cent had a long history of anti-social behaviour.

Dealing with young people who are accused of violent crimes presents an array of challenges distinct from the adult court system.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/experts-warn-of-triggers-that-can-turn-kids-into-killers-in-the-wake-of-an-11yearold-charged-with-murder/news-story/d714b2c5042a7e9059f3e506a8803052

Dr Elizabeth Yardley Professor of Criminology and Director of Birmingham City University’s Centre for Applied Criminology.
"Murderers are not simply evil aberrations who come into the world as homicidal ticking time bombs. Creating someone able and willing to take the life of another is a complex and lengthy process, in which a number of factors, individuals, groups and institutions play a role. Biology matters. Families matter. Communities and neighbourhoods matter. Schools, prisons and health services matter

However, one particular actor in the story of murder requires a closer look. Through examining 10 cases in Murderers and their Mothers, I have begun to unpick the complex fabric of the killer by pulling at the "mother" thread.

Why such an emphasis on mothers? What about the fathers? Isn't this sexist? These are questions that I have encountered a lot over the past few months. I argue that mothers matter more in the making of murderers because of the inherently gendered nature of society. We expect mothers to be selfless nurturers and primary caregivers - expectations we take for granted and apply to all. We defer to mothers, simply assuming that they know best and are prioritising the needs of their child, protecting them from harm both within and outside of the family. As long as mum is on the scene, surely everything will be alright?

It is clear from this analysis that three types of mother make a murderer - anti-mothers, uber-mothers and passive mothers..

For anti-mothers, problems begin within the family. They are often the victims of abuse and neglect themselves, survivors of brutal upbringings who never experienced a healthy family environment. Not all women who experience violent families will go on to recreate abusive homes. They are more likely to harm themselves than others, internalising their trauma as they struggle to wrestle back the control they never had as children. But a few women will repeat the cycle. These are the women for whom templates for family life have never been rewritten - their extended families and communities often reinforcing their experiences or denying them altogether. They turn from victims of brutalization to ruthless aggressors - the same kind of aggressors they had once despised.

For uber-mothers, problems begin outside of the family. They come from relatively stable, if not "traditional" nuclear family environments. However, they become acutely aware of society's expectations of families and motherhood from an early age. They are the victims of a discriminatory and arbitrary moral framework in which their families of origin fail to come up to scratch. As mothers, they are determined that their children will not be restricted by the same labels they believe held them back - illegitimacy, poverty, minority. They become mother-managers who carefully chart the childhood and adolescence of their sons and constantly struggle to keep them on course. They are the gatekeepers that hold off the outside world, protecting their child from scrutiny as their behaviour becomes increasingly deviant.

Passive mothers fear the judgement that society may impose on their children. These mothers have lived out their lives following the rules, not crossing the lines, fulfilling social expectations. They have always been quiet, passive, just ticking along. Therefore when their children begin to bend the rules and cross society's moral and legal boundaries the fear of labelling compels them to respond in the only way they know - denial and inaction. Sweep it under the carpet. It will go away. It's a phase. They will grow out of it.

Anti-mothers, uber-mothers and passive mothers thrive because of the considerable cultural value society places on privacy. How mothers bring up their children remains largely "none of our business". Most children from disadvantaged families who experience maltreatment never come onto the radar of social services. The middle class family is largely beyond reproach, protected by neoliberal concepts of freedom, independence and self-sufficiency. Privacy can be valuable as it allows us to restrict who has access to our family places and spaces and enables us to control who knows what about our families. However, it can also be the barrier behind which violence, abuse, neglect and denial can thrive - and the making of a murderer can begin.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-elizabeth-yardley-/making-of-murderers_b_9934416.html?guccounter=1
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 10:00:24 AM
Ive just ordered it. Wishing Sandra all the very best as always

I firmly believe Sandra Lean's thesis is fundamentally flawed for a variety of reasons.

On that basis (and others) I question her integrity to look at the Luke Mitchell case objectively with regards factual innocence. Whilst I recognise the numerous flaws and failings by the police, and others, I have lurking doubts regarding the motives and agendas of those who are campaigning to overturn this conviction.

It's clear there's been honest and ethical debate on this case over the years as well as tactical and dishonest debate.

I favour the former.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 10:24:04 AM
What leads a child to murder?

"What leads a child to kill is complex, said Mr Willis, but, more often than not, a poor upbringing has a big role to play.

Robert Kinscherff, a clinical psychologist and senior associate at the US’ National Centre for Mental Health and Juvenile Justice, said children that kill usually fall into one of three categories.

Speaking in 2014, to newspaper the Gazette, Mr Kinscherff said around 90 per cent of culprits were severely abused or had witnessed abuse such as between their parents; up to five per cent presented with mental health issues and four per cent had a long history of anti-social behaviour.

Dealing with young people who are accused of violent crimes presents an array of challenges distinct from the adult court system.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/experts-warn-of-triggers-that-can-turn-kids-into-killers-in-the-wake-of-an-11yearold-charged-with-murder/news-story/d714b2c5042a7e9059f3e506a8803052

Dr Elizabeth Yardley Professor of Criminology and Director of Birmingham City University’s Centre for Applied Criminology.
"Murderers are not simply evil aberrations who come into the world as homicidal ticking time bombs. Creating someone able and willing to take the life of another is a complex and lengthy process, in which a number of factors, individuals, groups and institutions play a role. Biology matters. Families matter. Communities and neighbourhoods matter. Schools, prisons and health services matter

However, one particular actor in the story of murder requires a closer look. Through examining 10 cases in Murderers and their Mothers, I have begun to unpick the complex fabric of the killer by pulling at the "mother" thread.

Why such an emphasis on mothers? What about the fathers? Isn't this sexist? These are questions that I have encountered a lot over the past few months. I argue that mothers matter more in the making of murderers because of the inherently gendered nature of society. We expect mothers to be selfless nurturers and primary caregivers - expectations we take for granted and apply to all. We defer to mothers, simply assuming that they know best and are prioritising the needs of their child, protecting them from harm both within and outside of the family. As long as mum is on the scene, surely everything will be alright?

It is clear from this analysis that three types of mother make a murderer - anti-mothers, uber-mothers and passive mothers..

For anti-mothers, problems begin within the family. They are often the victims of abuse and neglect themselves, survivors of brutal upbringings who never experienced a healthy family environment. Not all women who experience violent families will go on to recreate abusive homes. They are more likely to harm themselves than others, internalising their trauma as they struggle to wrestle back the control they never had as children. But a few women will repeat the cycle. These are the women for whom templates for family life have never been rewritten - their extended families and communities often reinforcing their experiences or denying them altogether. They turn from victims of brutalization to ruthless aggressors - the same kind of aggressors they had once despised.

For uber-mothers, problems begin outside of the family. They come from relatively stable, if not "traditional" nuclear family environments. However, they become acutely aware of society's expectations of families and motherhood from an early age. They are the victims of a discriminatory and arbitrary moral framework in which their families of origin fail to come up to scratch. As mothers, they are determined that their children will not be restricted by the same labels they believe held them back - illegitimacy, poverty, minority. They become mother-managers who carefully chart the childhood and adolescence of their sons and constantly struggle to keep them on course. They are the gatekeepers that hold off the outside world, protecting their child from scrutiny as their behaviour becomes increasingly deviant.

Passive mothers fear the judgement that society may impose on their children. These mothers have lived out their lives following the rules, not crossing the lines, fulfilling social expectations. They have always been quiet, passive, just ticking along. Therefore when their children begin to bend the rules and cross society's moral and legal boundaries the fear of labelling compels them to respond in the only way they know - denial and inaction. Sweep it under the carpet. It will go away. It's a phase. They will grow out of it.

Anti-mothers, uber-mothers and passive mothers thrive because of the considerable cultural value society places on privacy. How mothers bring up their children remains largely "none of our business". Most children from disadvantaged families who experience maltreatment never come onto the radar of social services. The middle class family is largely beyond reproach, protected by neoliberal concepts of freedom, independence and self-sufficiency. Privacy can be valuable as it allows us to restrict who has access to our family places and spaces and enables us to control who knows what about our families. However, it can also be the barrier behind which violence, abuse, neglect and denial can thrive - and the making of a murderer can begin.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-elizabeth-yardley-/making-of-murderers_b_9934416.html?guccounter=1

So, according to this article, as a mother - you are damned if you and damned if you don't? It does not cover those families with, lets say, four children - two of which lead a life of crime and the other two lead a crime-free life, even though all four children have had the same upbringing - in this scenario you cannot blame the upbringing. This also proves that there are children from disadvantaged families that go on to lead relatively normal lives. There are children in prison who come from the best of families as well as the worst.

I still do not think the Davies case is the same as Luke's on an evidentiary basis - regardless of their upbringing.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 10:27:25 AM
So, according to this article, as a mother - you are damned if you and damned if you don't? It does not cover those families with, lets say, four children - two of which lead a life of crime and the other two lead a crime-free life, even though all four children have had the same upbringing - in this scenario you cannot blame the upbringing. This also proves that there are children from disadvantaged families that go on to lead relatively normal lives. There are children in prison who come from the best of families as well as the worst.

I still do not think the Davies case is the same as Luke's on an evidentiary basis - regardless of their upbringing.

Rather than critique the article why don't you look closer at the relationship of Luke Mitchell and his mother?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=487.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=504.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=546.0

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=67.0

And ask yourself why this topic appears to be avoided by those who are closet to the case?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 10:36:32 AM
Rather than critique the article why don't you look closer at the relationship of Luke Mitchell and his mother?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=487.0

I do not think this would be helpful, my previous post explains why. Regardless of his relationship with his mother - this does not negate the fact that the case against Luke Mitchell is weak.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 10:42:53 AM
I do not think this would be helpful, my previous post explains why. Regardless of his relationship with his mother - this does not negate the fact that the case against Luke Mitchell is weak.

With regards the weak case as you see it, what's more important?

Actual factual innocence

or

technicallities of innocence?

Do you believe the Luke Mitchell case should be used as example to attempt to bring the Scottish legal system into disrepute, putting the actual factual innocence/guilty argument aside?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 10:50:45 AM
With regards the weak case as you see it, what's more important?

Actual factual innocence

or

technicallities of innocence?

Of course "factual innocence" is of upmost importance - but on the other hand technicalities can also be just as important. For example, not getting a fair trial can be seen as a technicality, but as we know an unfair trial can lead to the wrong person being convicted. 
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 10:55:03 AM
Of course "factual innocence" is of upmost importance - but on the other hand technicalities can also be just as important. For example, not getting a fair trial can be seen as a technicality, but as we know an unfair trial can lead to the wrong person being convicted.

Technicallies in law do not make a person a miscarriage of justice as the Barry George case shows. Actual factual innocence wasn't proven.

Luke Mitchell's case may show a wrongful conviction but there's nothing showing actual factual innocence IMO.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:02:42 AM
Technicallies in law do not make a person a miscarriage of justice as the Barry George case shows. Actual factual innocence wasn't proven.

No they do not, but that has a lot to do with the fact that our justice system do not want to compensate people who have been wrongly convicted, nor do they want to admit their own flaws.

Barry George's conviction has been overturned, he should go back to having the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

(every person has the right to a fair trial - it is a huge technicality if that right is breached)
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:03:29 AM
Of course "factual innocence" is of upmost importance - but on the other hand technicalities can also be just as important. For example, not getting a fair trial can be seen as a technicality, but as we know an unfair trial can lead to the wrong person being convicted.

Do you see Luke Mitchell's prosecution as malicious?

Did the police persue him for vindictive reasons do you think?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:04:54 AM
No they do not, but that has a lot to do with the fact that our justice system do not want to compensate people who have been wrongly convicted, nor do they want to admit their own flaws.

Barry George's conviction has been overturned, he should go back to having the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

(every person has the right to a fair trial - it is a huge technicality if that right is breached)

A wrongful conviction doesn't equal a miscarriage of justice

If you expect transparency from the justice system, shouldn't the same apply to those found wrongfully convicted?

Isn't the presumption of innocence a myth?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:07:43 AM
Do you see Luke Mitchell's prosecution as malicious?

Did the police persue him for vindictive reasons do you think?

I believe the police thought he was guilty and on that basis ruled out other lines of enquiry.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:09:15 AM
I believe the police thought he was guilty and on that basis ruled out other lines of enquiry.

But you haven't answered my question.

Was Mitchell's prosecution malicious?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:11:23 AM
I believe the police thought he was guilty and on that basis ruled out other lines of enquiry.

Regarding other lines of enquiry, haven't most of the other suspects since been followed up?

Which suspects are outstanding?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:11:54 AM
A wrongful conviction doesn't equal a miscarriage of justice

This depends how you define "miscarriage of justice" - I read something a long time ago (cannot remember if it was a judgment or an article - I will try to find it) where a top judge claimed even a guilty person can suffer a miscarriage of justice.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:13:05 AM
I believe the police thought he was guilty and on that basis ruled out other lines of enquiry.

And on what basis do you think the police believed he was guilty?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:13:51 AM
Do you believe the Luke Mitchell case should be used as example to attempt to bring the Scottish legal system into disrepute, putting the actual factual innocence/guilty argument aside?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:13:58 AM
But you haven't answered my question.

Was Mitchell's prosecuting malicious?

I did answer your question - I believe the police think they got their man - if that is their belief it cannot be malicious.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:15:30 AM
This depends how you define "miscarriage of justice" - I read something a long time ago (cannot remember if it was a judgment or an article - I will try to find it) where a top judge claimed even a guilty person can suffer a miscarriage of justice.

I have used the definition given by the court re Barry George's compensation claim as that's what we were debating
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:17:14 AM
And on what basis do you think the police believed he was guilty?

Certainly not an evidentiary basis if he was convicted purely because he smoked cannabis, was a goth and found the body. There is nothing linking him directly to the crime.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:21:13 AM
No they do not, but that has a lot to do with the fact that our justice system do not want to compensate people who have been wrongly convicted, nor do they want to admit their own flaws.

Barry George's conviction has been overturned, he should go back to having the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

(every person has the right to a fair trial - it is a huge technicality if that right is breached)

The problem for Barry George is he's in limbo.

Using Mark Williams Thomas to re investigate the case against him wasn't a very clever move IMO.

If Barry George is actually factually innocent I don't understand why he or "team Barry" don't disclose the medical evidence to support his claims. What have they got to lose, or hide as the case may be?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:22:23 AM
Do you believe the Luke Mitchell case should be used as example to attempt to bring the Scottish legal system into disrepute, putting the actual factual innocence/guilty argument aside?

Quote
On that basis (and others) I question her integrity to look at the Luke Mitchell case objectively with regards factual innocence. Whilst I recognise the numerous flaws and failings by the police, and others, I have lurking doubts regarding the motives and agendas of those who are campaigning to overturn this conviction.

Yes, if there is even the slightest possibility that a 14 year old child was sentenced to life imprisonment for a crime he did not commit.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:34:10 AM
Yes, if there is even the slightest possibility that a 14 year old child was sentenced to life imprisonment for a crime he did not commit.

That goes without saying but how do you propose Luke Mitchell and his supporters prove beyond any doubt his actual factual guilt or innocence, given all what's been publicly presented over the years?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:40:41 AM
That goes without saying but how do you propose Luke Mitchell and his supporters prove beyond any doubt his actual factual guilt or innocence, given all what's been publicly presented over the years?

That is a difficult question to answer - but just because it has never happened yet does not mean it never will. There are numerous cases who have had their convictions overturned after fighting for many, many years.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 11:48:04 AM
That is a difficult question to answer - but just because it has never happened yet does not mean it never will. There are numerous cases who have had their convictions overturned after fighting for many, many years.

But as I've said, over turning a conviction based on technicalities doesn't prove actual factual innocence.

Numerous alternative suspects have been named over the years by Mitchell and his supporters;  therefore if Luke Mitchell didn't commit this murder - who did?

I firmly believe Sandra Lean's thesis is fundamentally flawed for a variety of reasons.

On that basis (and others) I question her integrity to look at the Luke Mitchell case objectively with regards factual innocence. Whilst I recognise the numerous flaws and failings by the police, and others, I have lurking doubts regarding the motives and agendas of those who are campaigning to overturn this conviction.

It's clear there's been honest and ethical debate on this case over the years as well as tactical and dishonest debate.

I favour the former.

Are Mitchell supporters claiming the real killer is being protected?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 11:57:14 AM
But as I've said, over turning a conviction based on technicalities doesn't prove actual factual innocence.

Numerous alternative suspects have been named over the years by Mitchell and his supporters;  therefore if Luke Mitchell didn't commit this murder - who did?

Are Mitchell supporters claiming the real killer is being protected?

But even the court of appeal do not look at a person's guilt or innocence - they look at whether the conviction is safe - on that basis, can anyone prove factual innocence?

I cannot answer for other people - I myself do not believe the real killer is being protected, as I have said previously, I believe the police think they have got their man, but how many times have the police been wrong in murder cases?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 12:07:20 PM
But even the court of appeal do not look at a person's guilt or innocence - they look at whether the conviction is safe - on that basis, can anyone prove factual innocence?

I cannot answer for other people - I myself do not believe the real killer is being protected, as I have said previously, I believe the police think they have got their man, but how many times have the police been wrong in murder cases?

Sam Hallam's case is a prime example - he has photographic evidence proving he was elsewhere at the time of the murder and yet the ministry of justice said the new evidence did not show "beyond reasonable doubt that Mr Hallam did not commit the offence". Yet it was this "new evidence" which overturned his murder conviction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33045706
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 12:08:07 PM
But even the court of appeal do not look at a person's guilt or innocence - they look at whether the conviction is safe - on that basis, can anyone prove factual innocence?

I cannot answer for other people - I myself do not believe the real killer is being protected, as I have said previously, I believe the police think they have got their man, but how many times have the police been wrong in murder cases?

Luke Mitchell and his supporters have named several other alternative suspects. Where have these claims got them?

And what's the deal with Scott Forbes? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12458908.man-named-in-appeal-tried-to-sell-story-to-newspapers/

Did he ask for a "massive payout" as reported?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=594.0

And Is he still involved with the MOJ organisation?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 12:10:56 PM
Luke Mitchell and his supporters have named several other alternative suspects. Where have these claims got them?

I cannot answer for those people.

Quote
And what's the deal with Scott Forbes?

Care to elaborate? I see your link - I do not know what the deal is, perhaps he just wanted money or fame - who knows. Crimes like this bring all sorts of weirdo's out of the woodwork. If you had information which could free an innocent person would you want paying for it? I know I certainly would not.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 12:13:52 PM
I cannot answer for those people.

Care to elaborate?

Se above  8((()*/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 12:16:07 PM
I cannot answer for those people.

Care to elaborate? I see your link - I do not know what the deal is, perhaps he just wanted money or fame - who knows. Crimes like this bring all sorts of weirdo's out of the woodwork. If you had information which could free an innocent person would you want paying for it? I know I certainly would not.

Is Scott Forbes still involved with mojo?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=594.msg489278#msg489278
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 12:17:26 PM
Is Scott Forbes still involved with mojo?

I have no idea what he is involved in.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 12:51:09 PM
I have no idea what he is involved in.

It would be interesting to learn if Scott Forbes is still working for MOJO, alongside Sandra Lean, and if so in what capacity.


"A new campaign is now being launched, being led by a Scots criminologist, Dr Sandra Lean, who has dedicated her life to fighting injustice and defending those she believes have been wrongfully convicted. She has dedicated her career to the case, which happened in her hometown of Dalkeith 15 years ago and is set to publish a book later this year which she claims shows failings in the original police investigation.
Speaking to the Herald she said: “This would be the biggest embarrassment possibly ever for the Scottish police
ridiculous and small-town mentality– a lot of gossip.
an said that she had doubts over whether or not Mitchell was guilty, and after gaining a PHD in criminal justice and has become a campaigner for those wrongfully convicted and currently works with the charity, the Miscarriages of Justice Organisation
“Then over time, more bits of pieces just seemed strange, and his mother Corrine put a note through the door of my workplace one day.
“It said, ‘I’ve heard what you’re saying about my son’s situation, can you help us?’ I knew nothing about the justice system or anything, but I agreed to meet her and Luke, and they started telling me about what had been going on and where some of the stories that were doing the rounds had come from.
“What convinced me he was innocent finally, was access to all of the case papers in 2009.”

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/fresh-appeal-launched-to-clear-name-of-jodi-jones-killer-luke-mitchell-1-4800387

Sept 2018
Sandra Lean stated:
"That's not a decision for me, Marty - although I'm involved with the review team, I'm not the principal decision-maker.
However, there are discussions underway regarding an online presence for the case and the best way to go about that - I should be able to report back on this within the next couple of weeks.
As soon as I know what's happening, I will post here - Luke's had some really good support on this forum, so it's only right that this should be one of the first places to know about new developments
.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg447236.html#msg447236
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 01:34:02 PM
Ive just ordered it. Wishing Sandra all the very best as always

When you've read it maybe you can tell us if all of Luke Mitchell's psychological assessments and any and all supporting documentation showing a normal 14 year old boy have been included.

Would also be interesting to see what any school reports showed.

If Luke Mitchell is actually factually innocent what would he have to lose by putting these into the public domain?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 01:56:57 PM
By Luke Mitchell's own admission, he was a drug addict. How many joints did he say he smoked each day/week?

Cathy Molly from MOJO reminded me in 2013 that drug addicts are not to be trusted!

What makes Luke Mitchell different?

For what reason did he self medicate and why didn't his mother seek help for him from a medical professional?

Didn't Shane Mitchell also smoke dope?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 02:16:09 PM
When you've read it maybe you can tell us if all of Luke Mitchell's psychological assessments and any and all supporting documentation showing a normal 14 year old boy have been included.

Would also be interesting to see what any school reports showed.

If Luke Mitchell is actually factually innocent what would he have to lose by putting these into the public domain?

its on its way. Not sure about the info you are wanting to know though
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 02:18:11 PM
Sam Hallam's case is a prime example - he has photographic evidence proving he was elsewhere at the time of the murder and yet the ministry of justice said the new evidence did not show "beyond reasonable doubt that Mr Hallam did not commit the offence". Yet it was this "new evidence" which overturned his murder conviction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33045706

I agree fully with that. No way should Sam ever have been convicted but shockingly he was
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
By Luke Mitchell's own admission, he was a drug addict. How many joints did he say he smoked each day/week?

Cathy Molly from MOJO reminded me in 2013 that drug addicts are not to be trusted!

What makes Luke Mitchell different?

For what reason did he self medicate and why didn't his mother seek help for him from a medical professional?

Didn't Shane Mitchell also smoke dope?

Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

From personal experience, I have to say a family member of mine tried weed at around the same age. Didnt commit any crime, didnt lie steal or cheat to get it

It made him hungry and in need of cake! thats all

Teenagers are a strange species at times but thankfully they usually grow out of it
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 02:26:56 PM
I agree fully with that. No way should Sam ever have been convicted but shockingly he was

I agree. Sam's case is also proof that even if you have evidence to prove innocence the court itself is still reluctant to say whether a person is "factually innocent"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 02:42:29 PM
Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

From personal experience, I have to say a family member of mine tried weed at around the same age. Didnt commit any crime, didnt lie steal or cheat to get it

It made him hungry and in need of cake! thats all

Teenagers are a strange species at times but thankfully they usually grow out of it

The only way cannabis could make you act violently is if you had a psychotic episode through smoking it - I do not believe this has been alleged in Luke's case. Nevertheless, there is a large amount of children who smoke cannabis on a daily basis, it does not mean they have the propensity to kill.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 03:58:03 PM
That goes without saying but how do you propose Luke Mitchell and his supporters prove beyond any doubt his actual factual guilt or innocence, given all what's been publicly presented over the years?

Question:

How is actual factual innocence gauged?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:00:23 PM
The only way cannabis could make you act violently is if you had a psychotic episode through smoking it - I do not believe this has been alleged in Luke's case. Nevertheless, there is a large amount of children who smoke cannabis on a daily basis, it does not mean they have the propensity to kill.

I referred to drug addicts and whether they can be trusted or not
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:02:33 PM
Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

From personal experience, I have to say a family member of mine tried weed at around the same age. Didnt commit any crime, didnt lie steal or cheat to get it

It made him hungry and in need of cake! thats all

Teenagers are a strange species at times but thankfully they usually grow out of it

We aren't discussing your family member or some people.

Luke Mitchell is serving a life sentence for murder. He was a drug addict at the age of 14 years.

Do,you have a logical argument or not?



Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:12:13 PM
I agree fully with that. No way should Sam ever have been convicted but shockingly he was

I agree. Sam was clearly actually factually innocent!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 04:13:43 PM
We aren't discussing your family member or some people.

Luke Mitchell is serving a life sentence for murder. He was a drug addict at the age of 14 years.

Do,you have a logical argument or not?

I was replying to your comment about drug addicts not being trustworthy... i was pointing out that isnt always the case so yes it was relevant
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
I was replying to your comment about drug addicts not being trustworthy... i was pointing out that isnt always the case so yes it was relevant

Are you claiming drug addicts can be trusted?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 04:17:31 PM
I referred to drug addicts and whether they can be trusted or not

you asked the question after telling us you had been told they cant be trusted?  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 04:18:18 PM
Are you claiming drug addicts can be trusted?

no I am claiming you asked the question and I replied
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:18:42 PM
Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

From personal experience, I have to say a family member of mine tried weed at around the same age. Didnt commit any crime, didnt lie steal or cheat to get it

It made him hungry and in need of cake! thats all

Teenagers are a strange species at times but thankfully they usually grow out of it

How did Luke Mitchell fund his drug habit?

Who supplied him copious amounts of weed?

Why did his mother allow him to do what he did? And do you consider this responsible parenting? When he was arrested the police found drug paraphernalia in his room. According to Corrine Mitchell she would shut the door and leave him to it; words to that effect.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:24:20 PM
I referred to drug addicts and whether they can be trusted or not

I do not think it is fair to label someone who smoked cannabis a "drug addict" - it's not like he was addicted to heroin. Cannabis has been legalised in some major countries and has just been legalised on prescription in this country. It is not a hard drug and a lot of people use it, does this mean everyone who smokes it are not trustworthy?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
I do not think it is fair to label someone who smoked cannabis a "drug addict" - it's not like he was addicted to heroin. Cannabis has been legalised in some major countries and has just been legalised on prescription in this country. It is not a hard drug and a lot of people use it, does this mean everyone who smokes it are not trustworthy?

Label aside - how much weed did Luke Mitchell claim he smoked each week?

Why did he self medicate?

And why did his mother allow it and why didn't she seek out professional help for him?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
Question:

How is actual factual innocence gauged?

I would suggest that if you can prove, through photographic evidence, that you were not present during a street brawl which resulted in murder then that should be enough to "gauge" factual innocence - but our courts evidently do not agree.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:28:33 PM
I would suggest that if you can prove, through photographic evidence, that you were not present during a street brawl which resulted in murder then that should be enough to "gauge" factual innocence - but our courts evidently do not agree.

Courts aside - how is actual factual innocence gauged?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:28:38 PM
Label aside - how much weed did Luke Mitchell claim he smoked each week?

Why did he self medicate?

And why did his mother allow it and why didn't she seek out professional help for him?

I cannot answer these questions - only Luke himself, or his mother could answer.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:29:54 PM
I would suggest that if you can prove, through photographic evidence, that you were not present during a street brawl which resulted in murder then that should be enough to "gauge" factual innocence - but our courts evidently do not agree.

How do you know Simon Hall was actually factually guilty?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:30:58 PM
I cannot answer these questions - only Luke himself, or his mother could answer.

Are you suggesting that these facts have never been addressed and established in 15 years?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:32:40 PM
I cannot answer these questions - only Luke himself, or his mother could answer.

Do you think the police knew the answer to these questions?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:36:44 PM
I do not think it is fair to label someone who smoked cannabis a "drug addict" - it's not like he was addicted to heroin. Cannabis has been legalised in some major countries and has just been legalised on prescription in this country. It is not a hard drug and a lot of people use it, does this mean everyone who smokes it are not trustworthy?

Luke Mitchell appears to have been addicted to cannabis. People can and do become addicted to it.

How did he fund his drug habit?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:39:25 PM
"Lord Nimmo Smith said he could not recall an occasion when he detected any sign of emotion in the teenage killer. "It may be that a lack of emotional response made you more readily able to inflict harm on others," he said.

The judge also linked Mitchell's use of cannabis to the killing. "I do not subscribe to the notion that this is a harmless recreational drug," he said. "In your case, I think that it may well have contributed to your being unable to make the distinction between fantasy and reality which is essential for normal moral judgments

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/feb/12/ukcrime.kirstyscott
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:39:31 PM
Courts aside - how is actual factual innocence gauged?

Sean Hodgson maybe a prime example - he was exonerated through DNA evidence and compensated for his miscarriage of justice.

Another example could be if the real killer is found, then that would exonerate a person who has been wrongly convicted and prove factual innocence.

I would suggest Sam Hallam is factually innocent on the basis he can prove he was not present during the street brawl.

It is difficult to answer because not all cases are the same.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:40:49 PM
Sean Hodgson maybe a prime example - he was exonerated through DNA evidence and compensated for his miscarriage of justice.

Another example could be if the real killer is found, then that would exonerate a person who has been wrongly convicted and prove factual innocence.

I would suggest Sam Hallam is factually innocent on the basis he can prove he was not present during the street brawl.

It is difficult to answer because not all cases are the same.

How do YOU gauge actual factual innocence?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:41:03 PM
Are you suggesting that these facts have never been addressed and established in 15 years?

I am not suggesting anything, I cannot speak for other people. If these things had been established then surely you would not be asking the questions.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:42:21 PM
How do you know Simon Hall was actually factually guilty?

How do you know? I assume he is guilty because he confessed and this was not under duress as he was in an open prison at the time and nearly ready to be released.

What other reason could there be for his confession other than he was factually guilty?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
How do YOU gauge actual factual innocence?

Pretty much the same as everyone else does Stephanie - through the merits of the case. How do YOU gauge factual innocence? It would be interesting to know this considering you were the one to bring factual innocence into the conversation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:47:38 PM
How do you know? I assume he is guilty because he confessed and this was not under duress as he was in an open prison at the time and nearly ready to be released.

What other reason could there be for his confession other than he was factually guilty?

You tell me
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:48:16 PM
Pretty much the same as everyone else does Stephanie - through the merits of the case. How do YOU gauge factual innocence? It would be interesting to know this considering you were the one to bring factual innocence into the conversation.

I asked you first  8)--))
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
"Lord Nimmo Smith said he could not recall an occasion when he detected any sign of emotion in the teenage killer. "It may be that a lack of emotional response made you more readily able to inflict harm on others," he said.

The judge also linked Mitchell's use of cannabis to the killing. "I do not subscribe to the notion that this is a harmless recreational drug," he said. "In your case, I think that it may well have contributed to your being unable to make the distinction between fantasy and reality which is essential for normal moral judgments

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/feb/12/ukcrime.kirstyscott

I do not agree with the judge - there should have been expert opinion on that matter. An 'addiction' to cannabis is not the same as an addiction to hard drugs - there has been much debate on this which is available on the internet and opinion appears to differ somewhat.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 04:52:02 PM
I asked you first  8)--))

You did. And I very kindly replied.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 04:57:54 PM
You did. And I very kindly replied.

Okay;

how does Sandra Lean gauge actual factual innocence?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 05:08:41 PM
I do not agree with the judge - there should have been expert opinion on that matter. An 'addiction' to cannabis is not the same as an addiction to hard drugs - there has been much debate on this which is available on the internet and opinion appears to differ somewhat.

"Lord Nimmo Smith said he could not recall an occasion when he detected any sign of emotion in the teenage killer. "It may be that a lack of emotional response made you more readily able to inflict harm on others," he said
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 05:11:56 PM
Okay;

how does Sandra Lean gauge actual factual innocence?

I cannot answer for other people, nor would I want to.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 05:12:16 PM
I do not agree with the judge - there should have been expert opinion on that matter. An 'addiction' to cannabis is not the same as an addiction to hard drugs - there has been much debate on this which is available on the internet and opinion appears to differ somewhat.

Was there expert opinion on this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 05:13:03 PM
"Lord Nimmo Smith said he could not recall an occasion when he detected any sign of emotion in the teenage killer. "It may be that a lack of emotional response made you more readily able to inflict harm on others," he said

Whichever way he reacted would have come under attack, I think that is fair to say.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 05:14:36 PM
Was there expert opinion on this?

On the effects of cannabis? I do not know, but if not I believe there should have been considering the judge's remarks.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 05:19:53 PM
I cannot answer for other people, nor would I want to.

"One area where public perceptions and the reality of the CJS are thrown into sharp relief is that of miscarriage of justice, and, more specifically, wrongful conviction of the factually innocent.
The definition of wrongful accusation and conviction of the factually innocent, for the purposes of this study, are those accusations and convictions which began with a police investigation that concluded that there was a case against an individual which was both chargeable, and actionable in a court of law, that individual maintaining that s/he did not commit the crime

Miscarriages of Justice and wrongful conviction of the factually innocent (Naughton, 2004) (emphasis added), rather than systemic or procedural failings
.
https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/11691/3/Thesis%2Babsolute%2Bfinal.pdf
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 05:21:34 PM
"One area where public perceptions and the reality of the CJS are thrown into sharp relief is that of miscarriage of justice, and, more specifically, wrongful conviction of the factually innocent.
The definition of wrongful accusation and conviction of the factually innocent, for the purposes of this study, are those accusations and convictions which began with a police investigation that concluded that there was a case against an individual which was both chargeable, and actionable in a court of law, that individual maintaining that s/he did not commit the crime
.https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/11691/3/Thesis%2Babsolute%2Bfinal.pdf

I cannot understand why you would ask me when you already know the answer.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 05:32:56 PM
Whichever way he reacted would have come under attack, I think that is fair to say.

I disagree.

The fact he showed no emotion is telling
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
I disagree.

The fact he showed no emotion is telling

You are allowed to disagree, as am I. Had he showed any emotion it would have been said that his tears were for himself and his situation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 05:50:51 PM
 8@??)(
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
Had he showed any emotion it would have been said that his tears were for himself and his situation.

We are referring to a child of 14 years old

Don't you find his lack of emotional response remarkable?

JJ's mother referred to him as a sociopath
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 06:11:40 PM
We are referring to a child of 14 years old

Don't you find his lack of emotional response remarkable?

JJ's mother referred to him as a sociopath

No I do not, we do not all react how others expect - any emotion would have been under scrutiny as was his lack of emotion.

She is bound to think/say that - he was on trial for killing her daughter. She could not have thought that before Jodi was murdered because no mother would allow her young daughter to be associated with a sociopath.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on October 28, 2018, 06:15:09 PM
No I do not, we do not all react how others expect - any emotion would have been under scrutiny as was his lack of emotion.

She is bound to think/say that - he was on trial for killing her daughter. She could not have thought that before Jodi was murdered because no mother would allow her young daughter to be associated with a sociopath.

She would have said so surely if it was so clearly obvious - before not after the murder
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on October 28, 2018, 06:19:17 PM
She would have said so surely if it was so clearly obvious - before not after the murder

I would say so - on another note, I do not think a child can be diagnosed as a sociopath.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 28, 2018, 07:01:43 PM
She would have said so surely if it was so clearly obvious - before not after the murder

"Campaigner Sandra Lean, who accompanied Mitchell's mum Corinne to an appeal hearing in Edinburgh last week, wrote a response to Judy's comments.

She said: "Luke Mitchell did not kill Jodi. Someone else did. That someone has evaded justice in part because police targeted Luke without any evidence."

Corinne added: "Never once has anyone disrespected Jodi.

"Luke is not a sociopath. Judy, are you qualified to make this diagnosis, with one short hug when a child was in shock?
"
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-murdered-jodi-jones-brands-1105317
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 30, 2018, 09:12:26 AM
No I do not, we do not all react how others expect - any emotion would have been under scrutiny as was his lack of emotion.

She is bound to think/say that - he was on trial for killing her daughter. She could not have thought that before Jodi was murdered because no mother would allow her young daughter to be associated with a sociopath.

The Authenticity Paradox

Who is the authentic Luke Mitchell?

"Authenticity isn’t the presence of something, but the absence of everything that isn’t authentic
.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 30, 2018, 10:43:36 AM
She would have said so surely if it was so clearly obvious - before not after the murder

Why would she?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on October 30, 2018, 10:45:15 AM
"Campaigner Sandra Lean, who accompanied Mitchell's mum Corinne to an appeal hearing in Edinburgh last week, wrote a response to Judy's comments.

She said: "Luke Mitchell did not kill Jodi. Someone else did. That someone has evaded justice in part because police targeted Luke without any evidence."

Corinne added: "Never once has anyone disrespected Jodi.

"Luke is not a sociopath. Judy, are you qualified to make this diagnosis, with one short hug when a child was in shock?
"
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-murdered-jodi-jones-brands-1105317

Sandra Lean claimed Luke Mitchell was targeted by the police without any evidence.

Who agrees with this?

Has her narrative of this belief since changed?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 06:17:22 PM
Label aside - how much weed did Luke Mitchell claim he smoked each week?

Why did he self medicate?

And why did his mother allow it and why didn't she seek out professional help for him?

"[24] The Crown led evidence to undermine the credibility of Corinne Mitchell. In particular, evidence was led that she was present when the appellant obtained a tattoo in October 2003, and that she had confirmed his age as being over 18. This tattoo depicted a skull with flames coming from it. Mrs Mitchell had stated to members of staff - "that's really him". The Crown's position was that this evidence demonstrated an unhealthy relationship between the appellant and his mother, to the point where she was indulging inappropriate behaviour on his part, and undermined her evidence in support of his alibi. The witness denied several of these allegations. Evidence from members from staff at the tattoo parlour, as well as expert fingerprint evidence of a consent form signed in the name of an acquaintance of Mrs Mitchell with the appellant's fingerprints upon it, was led. This evidence was subject to a defence objection. It was admitted but the jury was directed that it was only relevant to Mrs Mitchell's credibility.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 06:24:34 PM
Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

From personal experience, I have to say a family member of mine tried weed at around the same age. Didnt commit any crime, didnt lie steal or cheat to get it

It made him hungry and in need of cake! thats all

Teenagers are a strange species at times but thankfully they usually grow out of it

[25] The Crown also referred to the appellant's police statements at interview. In particular, in his closing submissions, the Advocate depute referred, at length, to excerpts from an interview on 14 August 2003. it was suggested that the appellant came across as calculating, clever and dishonest. Reference was made to contradictory statements concerning the failure to raise the alarm when the deceased failed to meet the appellant; to lies regarding his use of cannabis and the amount of contact he had had with Kimberley Thomson; and to outbursts which demonstrated the appellant's temper and arrogance. It was also suggested that the appellant's claim that no time had been fixed for meeting with the deceased and his description of his movements on the evening of the murder were incredible and that his assertion that he thought that the deceased had not turned up perhaps because she had been grounded did not make sense, given his prior conversation with Alan Ovens.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 06:38:30 PM
Some people will rob and lie to get money for drugs making them not trust worthy. Even that doesnt apply to all

"He also denies charges of possessing knives in public places and being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin to other school pupils, including Jodi.

The trial continues.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4098795.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 02, 2018, 06:42:10 PM
[25] The Crown also referred to the appellant's police statements at interview. In particular, in his closing submissions, the Advocate depute referred, at length, to excerpts from an interview on 14 August 2003. it was suggested that the appellant came across as calculating, clever and dishonest. Reference was made to contradictory statements concerning the failure to raise the alarm when the deceased failed to meet the appellant; to lies regarding his use of cannabis and the amount of contact he had had with Kimberley Thomson; and to outbursts which demonstrated the appellant's temper and arrogance. It was also suggested that the appellant's claim that no time had been fixed for meeting with the deceased and his description of his movements on the evening of the murder were incredible and that his assertion that he thought that the deceased had not turned up perhaps because she had been grounded did not make sense, given his prior conversation with Alan Ovens.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Have you ever come across a case where the prosecution painted the defendant in a favourable light? I haven't either!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
"In addition, it had been accepted that the publicity in itself was not of what could be called an improper nature. For example, it did not involve the revelation of previous convictions

What previous convictions?

[55] Most of the publicity had occurred in the immediate aftermath of the death of the deceased. It was a matter of concession that, by around September 2003, the intensity of the coverage had very largely died down. In that connection reference was made to pages 70 to 71 of the transcript of proceedings of 6 October 2004. In addition, it had been accepted that the publicity in itself was not of what could be called an improper nature. For example, it did not involve the revelation of previous convictions.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 08:01:36 PM
"He also denies charges of possessing knives in public places and being concerned in the supply of cannabis resin to other school pupils, including Jodi.

The trial continues.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4098795.stm

"He was also found guilty of a separate charge of supplying cannabis.

Luke Mitchell was a liar! And clearly not to be trusted!

Drug paraphanalia was found in his bedroom. Why did he choose to lie about the fact he was supplying cannibis to other children?

And WHY did his mother allow this?  Or turn a blind eye to it?

These FACTS were certainly not favourable!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 02, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
"He was also found guilty of a separate charge of supplying cannabis.

Luke Mitchell was a liar! And clearly not to be trusted!

Drug parphanilia was found in his bedroom. Why did he choose to lie about the fact he was supplying cannibis to other children?

And WHY did his mother allow this?  Or turn a blind eye to it?

Just because he was found guilty of those charges does not mean he was lying - how many other people have pleaded not guilty to crimes and subsequently found guilty only to be later exonerated? I do not agree that everyone who smokes cannabis is untrustworthy - from what I recall it was, in fact, Jodi's relative who supplied both Luke and Jodi with cannabis as admitted by the relative himself, lets just sweep that under the carpet and blame Luke for everything!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 08:13:26 PM
Just because he was found guilty of those charges does not mean he was lying - how many other people have pleaded not guilty to crimes and subsequently found guilty only to be later exonerated? I do not agree that everyone who smokes cannabis is untrustworthy - from what I recall it was, in fact, Jodi's relative who supplied both Luke and Jodi with cannabis as admitted by the relative himself, lets just sweep that under the carpet and blame Luke for everything!

You are clearly missing the point! The relative told the truth whereas Mitchell lied!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 02, 2018, 08:15:35 PM
You are clearly missing the point! The relative told the truth whereas Mitchell lied!

How do you know he lied? Were you there when he was 'supplying' people? Why was the relative not charged with supplying and Luke was? I think it is you who is missing the point, by a long mile!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 02, 2018, 08:15:40 PM
Liar and untrustworthy. Reminds me of someone
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 08:17:49 PM
"On July 2014, the SCCRC revealed that police officers breached Luke Mitchell's human rights when they questioned him over the murder of his teenage girlfriend Jodi Jones. However, they determined he was not the victim of a miscarriage of justice. The SCCRC report made it clear that, despite Mitchell’s claims that he was innocent, there are no grounds to challenge the guilty verdict. Chief executive Gerard Sinclair wrote: 'The Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission has now completed its inquiries into whether or not a miscarriage of justice may have occurred in respect of Mr Luke Muir Mitchell’s conviction and sentence. The Commission has decided not to refer Mr Mitchell’s case to the High Court.[15] Immediately following the decision by the SCCRC, it was announced that Mitchell would take his case to the European Courts although the competency of such a move is questionable since the ECHR has a strict six-month deadline for applications pursuant to the case being heard by the domestic court
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 02, 2018, 08:19:52 PM
You seem to get comfort from that. Is that because you believe Luke is guilty or because you despise Sandra? Obsessed by her even

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 02, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
"On July 2014, the SCCRC revealed that police officers breached Luke Mitchell's human rights when they questioned him over the murder of his teenage girlfriend Jodi Jones. However, they determined he was not the victim of a miscarriage of justice. The SCCRC report made it clear that, despite Mitchell’s claims that he was innocent, there are no grounds to challenge the guilty verdict. Chief executive Gerard Sinclair wrote: 'The Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission has now completed its inquiries into whether or not a miscarriage of justice may have occurred in respect of Mr Luke Muir Mitchell’s conviction and sentence. The Commission has decided not to refer Mr Mitchell’s case to the High Court.[15] Immediately following the decision by the SCCRC, it was announced that Mitchell would take his case to the European Courts although the competency of such a move is questionable since the ECHR has a strict six-month deadline for applications pursuant to the case being heard by the domestic court

How they came to that conclusion is beyond me!

Didn't it take the Birmingham 6 at least 3 attempts at appeal before the conviction was overturned? Or was that the Guildford 4? Or both?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 02, 2018, 08:34:46 PM
I’m an innocent lad condemned by lies and errors, claims Luke Mitchell
Saturday 21 July 2012 LUKE Mitchell, the killer of Scots teenager Jodi Jones, has claimed that his conviction for her murder was down to “lies, deceptions and a fully flawed murder investigation”.

Mitchell issued his statement as his mother, Corinne, 53, delivered a 300-page dossier to the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC) in Glasgow yesterday in an attempt to have the 23-year-old’s case returned to the courts.

Mitchell was jailed in 2005 for the murder of his teenage girlfriend in 2003.

“I was let down by the people we are meant to trust” Luke Mitchell
The file includes claims that someone who looked like him may have confused eyewitnesses, and that he did not receive a fair trial.

Mitchell has already lost one appeal, in 2008, over his conviction of killing of 14-year-old Jodi, who was found stabbed to death in a wooded area close to her home at Easthouses, Midlothian. He was sentenced to at least 20 years.

Outside the SCCRC building, Ms Mitchell, accompanied by her lawyer, Sandra Lean, who has led the case review application, issued a statement written by Mitchell in his prison cell.

He wrote that next week would mark nine years behind bars.

“Another one spent without my family and friends. Over the last nine years, I have lost so much – my girlfriend, my beloved grandmother, my dog and, of course, my freedom – the one thing we all take for granted.

“This was down to lies, deceptions and a fully flawed murder investigation. I was let down by the people we are meant to trust – the police and lawyers. This led to an innocent lad locked up in prison, and a guilty one allowed to go free.

“Now I am getting the chance to put the real facts and the real evidence to the real body of people who will be able to see my case for what it is – a true miscarriage of justice.”

Mitchell thanked supporters who set up a website and campaigned for his release, adding that he was grateful to the “few legal professionals who still understand and practise integrity.”

Mitchell and his mother must now wait to see if an appeal will be allowed.

Ms Mitchell said it was a “big day” for her son.


“Luke is happy that it’s finally got to this stage, but he is fed-up that he is where he is,” she said. “My son’s life is passing him by in there. It’s been a very tough journey … hopefully this document will help the case get back to the courts.”

Asked about the emotional pain being inflicted on Jodi’s family by continuing to appeal against the conviction, Ms Mitchell replied: “At the end of the day, Jodi’s family haven’t got justice. The killer hasn’t been locked up – the killer is still out there.”

Ms Mitchell said she did not know how long it would take for the SCCRC to arrive at a conclusion. But Ms Lean was upbeat.

“This is a vital new step in our fight to clear Luke’s name,” she said.

“The commission will have the opportunity to review the case in its entirety and come to a view on the botched investigation, which we believe resulted in a terrible miscarriage of justice.”

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scotsman/20120721/282024734382667
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 03, 2018, 11:01:51 AM
You seem to get comfort from that. Is that because you believe Luke is guilty or because you despise Sandra? Obsessed by her even

Why did you marry a convicted murderer in prison and proceed to stamp on anyone you have ever come into contact with?

I do believe Luke Mitchell is guilty because of the parallels in the Simon Hall case; much of what I learned, you won't find in the public domain.

It's a suggestion that has certainly sparked high emotions. "Yes, there has been a bit of intimidation since I started this," nods Sandra, reflecting on four years spent trying to fathom out who really has Jodi Jones' blood on their hands. "I've been followed around, intimidated. It's not been very pleasant, and you'd have to be stupid not to feel uncomfortable about that. But as a mother, I'd rather know they have the right person behind bars."

In her hands, she holds the book she has finally just seen published. No Smoke: The Shocking Truth About British Justice highlights seven high-profile criminal convictions - including Mitchell's - each of them she firmly believes to be a gross miscarriage of justice. It includes cases like that of Sion Jenkins - the stepfather of Billie-Jo Jenkins who has finally been cleared of her murder - and Gordon Park, whose wife Carol Ann Park's body was found in the Lake District 30 years after she went missing

But it is Mitchell's conviction and the court case that held Scotland gripped by the details of his oddball existence, drugs, two-timing and alleged obsession with the occult - that may incur the displeasure of her local community.

"The public opinion was so much against Luke Mitchell and the Mitchell family that to start speaking in support and start questioning things has been risky," admits Sandra

I was in a shop recently, talking to someone I know when another woman came in. The person I was speaking to mentioned that I'd been looking at the Luke Mitchell case, and this other woman - you know the kind, knuckles scrapping on the floor - turned and growled something like: 'Well, you'd just better watch yourself'."

There have been other, even more worrying incidents which Sandra prefers not to discuss publicly. Yet she is so driven to lift the lid on what she sees as fundamental flaws in the justice system which have sent Mitchell to jail for 20 years, that she's prepared to take the flak: "I'll just not shop in that shop for a while," she shrugs

While the police still insist the case is closed, her personal conclusion is that Jodi's killer could not have been the then 14-year-old Mitchell and that the legal case around the St David's High School pupil was based on circumstantial evidence, and the investigation botched
. http://truthinjustice.org/no-smoke.htm


I agree there are most definitely "fundamental flaws in the justice system."

Simon Hall's conviction was based on "circumstantial evidence" and the police investigation into JA's murder was most definitely "botched." Police failures regarding disclosure issues etc etc.

But there are guilty men walking in the footsteps of the innocent. Circumstantial cases give the guilty plausible deniability.

14 year old boys DO commit murder!

Whose innocence was betrayed and by whom?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 04, 2018, 12:57:08 PM
Please keep to the topic, and refrain from insulting other posters. Thanks.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 04, 2018, 12:58:38 PM
Thank you mrswah for responding to the reports about the posts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 04, 2018, 01:12:33 PM
Lots of discrepancies are highlighted right from the start. it does make me wonder what the Police working on Luke's case were thinking. Important but basic stuff messed up ignored or totally changed.

When the basics are wrong, what hope is there for anything else to change?

The book will certainly make people think about Luke and other cases they may be familiar with
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Angelo222 on November 04, 2018, 05:22:33 PM
This topic concerns Luke Mitchell and not Simon Hall or Sandra Lean. Any off topic or condescending comments will be deleted.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 05, 2018, 12:25:06 PM
With so many mistakes right from the start, Luke really didnt stand much of a chance to ever been seen as innocence. No matter what you view on Luke is now, it is really quite shocking
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 08:36:46 PM
I would say so - on another note, I do not think a child can be diagnosed as a sociopath.

https://nypost.com/2018/11/05/sociopath-teen-murdered-mom-after-argument-over-bad-grade-cops/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 08:49:28 PM
How do you know he lied? Were you there when he was 'supplying' people? Why was the relative not charged with supplying and Luke was? I think it is you who is missing the point, by a long mile!

Do you think relatives in cases like this should be charged?

Would be interesting to hear your views
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 08:52:33 PM
You seem to get comfort from that. Is that because you believe Luke is guilty or because you despise Sandra? Obsessed by her even

These are quite clearly your psychological projections

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 08:54:50 PM
No I do not, we do not all react how others expect - any emotion would have been under scrutiny as was his lack of emotion.

A lack of emotion could be suggestive of a lack of conscience!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 06, 2018, 09:28:45 PM
A lack of emotion could be suggestive of a lack of conscience!

According to you . What do you base YOUR findings on as you clearly dont the facts of the case at all. Just the one sided view you chose to believe over time
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 06, 2018, 09:44:45 PM
 @)(++(*

I am your inspiration now. Guess I should be worried

Back to Luke Mitchell
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 09:53:05 PM
@)(++(*

I am your inspiration now. Guess I should be worried

Back to Luke Mitchell

Why do we never hear from Luke Mitchell's brother?
 I have a suspicion he knows his brother best and dare not speak out through fear of exposing the Mitchell family secrets/Luke's guilt further? Most definately worth considering IMO.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 06, 2018, 10:16:07 PM
I would say so - on another note, I do not think a child can be diagnosed as a sociopath.

Do you think sociopathy/psychopathy is genetic? For example, if one brother has it, do you think the other brother may suffer from it too?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 07, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
it is amazing and very scary how people's initial claims re sightings descriptions - evidence can change so much by the time it reaches court.

Whole descriptions including clothes hair and location has been morphed into something completely different before they even start on the timings.

That seems to be quite acceptable by some.

It is all so wrong!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:03:18 AM
Sandra Lean "No Smoke"
"Finally, as with Derek Christian and Simon Hall, we are asked to believe that Luke Mitchell suddenly and inexplicably "flipped," behaving in a manner which is completely uncharacteristic, then almost instantly returns to normal
https://paulviking.websitetoolbox.com/post/infamous-cases-4689531#tr_39963555

Shaun Hall (4th Feb 2013-Jeremy Bamber Forum)
"He has a history that he shouldn’t be proud of and to be honest, stolen goods from 11 years ago are the least of his worries if its true as you say he is suffering at the moment. Hopefully he will be honest with you for a change, sadly this is something Simon finds hard to do most of the time

First, Simon had every chance to confess to his actions on the night of Joan’s death, however he decided to keep this quiet. Saying that anyone else should go to the police is ridiculous as they wouldn’t want Simon to get in trouble.
https://therealmrshspoofblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/27/the-burglary-omission-smear-campaign-hindsight/

Family members of murder suspects/murderers can and do lie for various reasons.

For example, some lie to protect their own reputations, some lie to hide family secrets, some lie out of misguided loyalty.etc

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 08:01:33 AM
As we have already been advised, the topic needs to stay discussing Luke and his case. Not Sandra or Simon Hall. It was going nicely and we are looking forward to keeping on topic to discuss further
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 08:40:00 AM
According to you . What do you base YOUR findings on as you clearly dont the facts of the case at all. Just the one sided view you chose to believe over time

Experience that family members in cases like this can and do lie and can and do lie for years.

And that a version of events; whether it be a prosecution theory or a book written by a campaigner cannot be relied on.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:06:32 AM
it is amazing and very scary how people's initial claims re sightings descriptions - evidence can change so much by the time it reaches court.

Whole descriptions including clothes hair and location has been morphed into something completely different before they even start on the timings.

That seems to be quite acceptable by some.

It is all so wrong!

The case of the prosecution is a theory of events. A theory of events often relied on by witnesses whose recollection of events can be sketchy or in some cases based on lies in order to protect themselves/others, family members.etc

When CCTV/photographic evidence isn't available for example, the prosecution have no option but to rely on witness evidence. This evidence can and does change before a trial.

In an ideal world witnesses would have photographic memories and their default setting regarding giving evidence, would be based on honesty.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:12:39 AM
Why didn't Shane Mitchell confirm his brothers alibi in court?

Forget what he said in his witness statements and the fact they'd changed and why.

Why didn't he say his brother was home and therefore couldn't have murdered JJ at the time the prosecution asserted during trial?

He had options available to him, including lying. Why didn't Shane Mitchell lie and tell the court, "yes Luke was home with me?"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 09:15:12 AM
Maybe he wasnt lying. Why did everyone else connected to Jodi have the opportunity to chat and change their version of events on many occasions when they 'remembered' something

The same was not extended to Luke or his family... no anything that was remembered there was just another step towards proving Luke's guilt!

Compare the lies you think the Brother told to the conflicting info given by ALL the others. It may just look quite different to you
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
Maybe he wasnt lying. Why did everyone else connected to Jodi have the opportunity to chat and change their version of events on many occasions when they 'remembered' something

The same was not extended to Luke or his family... no anything that was remembered there was just another step towards proving Luke's guilt!

Compare the lies you think the Brother told to the conflicting info giving by ALL the others. It may just look quite different to you

Yes it was
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:18:19 AM
Maybe he wasnt lying. Why did everyone else connected to Jodi have the opportunity to chat and change their version of events on many occasions when they 'remembered' something

The same was not extended to Luke or his family... no anything that was remembered there was just another step towards proving Luke's guilt!

Compare the lies you think the Brother told to the conflicting info given by ALL the others. It may just look quite different to you

Who wasn't lying?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 09:18:40 AM
 *&^^& no it wasnt...

If we cannot rely on a 'Campaigner' who has written a book about the case, where do you get your inside knowledge from then?

You are wrong
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:20:06 AM
Maybe he wasnt lying. Why did everyone else connected to Jodi have the opportunity to chat and change their version of events on many occasions when they 'remembered' something

The same was not extended to Luke or his family... no anything that was remembered there was just another step towards proving Luke's guilt!

Compare the lies you think the Brother told to the conflicting info given by ALL the others. It may just look quite different to you

Luke Mitchell has been convicted of JJ's murder, no one else!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
Changes of witness statements aside;

WHY didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brother Luke's alibi in court?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 09:22:45 AM
Luke Mitchell has been convicted of JJ's murder, no one else!

Wow... thanks for that.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:23:55 AM
*&^^& no it wasnt...

If we cannot rely on a 'Campaigner' who has written a book about the case, where do you get your inside knowledge from then?

You are wrong

No it wasn't what?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 09:25:03 AM
Changes of witness statements aside;

WHY didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brother Luke's alibi in court?


Change of witness statements aside? oh yes because that wouldnt lead to a miscarriage of justice would it? Do you have any idea just how much the info changed? You clearly do not
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:25:21 AM
*&^^& no it wasnt...

If we cannot rely on a 'Campaigner' who has written a book about the case, where do you get your inside knowledge from then?

You are wrong

What are you referring to?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:27:12 AM
Wow... thanks for that.

WHY didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brother Luke's alibi in court
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 09:32:14 AM
What are you referring to?

You seem to have all the knowledge about the case but stated clearly we cannot rely on anything a campaigner writes in a book. You know the same campaigner who has read all the paperwork connected to the case

Just wonder what access you had that was so different to make you see things clearer that anyone else?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:32:58 AM

Change of witness statements aside? oh yes because that wouldnt lead to a miscarriage of justice would it? Do you have any idea just how much the info changed? You clearly do not

In an ideal world witnesses would have photographic memories and their default setting regarding giving evidence, would be based on honesty.

Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during his brothers MURDER trial?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:34:09 AM
You seem to have all the knowledge about the case but stated clearly we cannot rely on anything a campaigner writes in a book. You know the same campaigner who has read all the paperwork connected to the case

Just wonder what access you had that was so different to make you see things clearer that anyone else?

As we have already been advised, the topic needs to stay discussing Luke and his case. Not Sandra or Simon Hall. It was going nicely and we are looking forward to keeping on topic to discuss further
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:40:47 AM
You seem to have all the knowledge about the case but stated clearly we cannot rely on anything a campaigner writes in a book. You know the same campaigner who has read all the paperwork connected to the case

Just wonder what access you had that was so different to make you see things clearer that anyone else?

One simple question;

Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

He had options available to him which included lying or telling the truth.

Why didn't he say his brother was home? Why didn't he tell the jury when asked; "yes Luke was home with me and therefore could not have murdered JJ.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 09:47:19 AM
"THE brother of Jodi Jones murder accused Luke Mitchell today admitted discussing his police statement with his mother before telling police Luke was in the family’s house on the day the schoolgirl was killed. In a statement given to police on July 7, 2003, Shane Mitchell said he recalled seeing his brother in the kitchen "mashing tatties". The High Court in Edinburgh heard that his mother had given a statement the previous day also claiming that Luke was in the kitchen that evening "cooking pies and mashing potatoes". But the jury previously heard that when Shane was questioned by police on April 14 last year he said he had not seen Luke in the house on the evening of June 30, 2003, and that he had been looking at pornography on his computer in his bedroom. Advocate depute Alan Turnbull, QC, prosecuting, read sections of Shane’s statement from July 7 to the jury. In his statement he told police that he remembered his mother’s car being in the driveway and the front door being open. His statement continued: "I went into the hallway and shouted out and then went upstairs to the bathroom to wash my hands. About five minutes later I came straight back down. When I was in the bathroom I left the door open. "Afterwards I went downstairs into the living-room, then into the kitchen. Luke was standing at the cooker mashing tatties. I could smell burnt steak pies. I did not mention the smell because I did not want to insult him. "He was pretty happy. I spoke to him, then my mother. That was the first time I had seen my mother that day and I was talking to her about how her day had been." The court heard that Shane then went upstairs to log on to his computer but was called down for dinner by Luke five minutes later. Mr Turnbull asked Mr Mitchell: "I want to understand how it came to be that you make this reference to police about mashing tatties." Mr Turnbull then read out to the court the section of Mrs Mitchell’s statement given on the previous day to Shane’s. She said in her statement: "When I got home Luke was in the kitchen first of all. Luke then strained the potatoes and mashed them. At that point I think Shane came in and I could smell the pies in the oven and I asked one of them to take them out, commenting that Luke had overdone them." Mr Turnbull then asked Mr Mitchell: "When you came to give your statement the very next day it includes reference to you saying that Luke was mashing the tatties and there being a burning smell." Mr Mitchell agreed. Mr Turnbull then asked: "How can it be you gave information to police which was incorrect and then give information about mashing tatties and burnt pies. "Before you gave that statement did you discuss with anyone what you should say to police?" Mr Mitchell replied: "In a way." Mr Turnbull said: "Who". Alex Salmond sexual misconduct case comes to Court of Session Mitchell replied: "My mother." Mr Mitchell then admitted he had been affected by this discussion with his mother. "If it had not been for that discussion with your mother would you have been able to give any of this evidence to police?" Mr Turnbull asked. "Not really," replied Mr Mitchell. Asked what his mother had said to him after giving her statement Mr Mitchell replied: "She said to me: ‘You came in and Luke was with us and we had tatties for dinner, then you went back out again.’" Mr Mitchell told the court that he was "extremely shaken" when he gave his statement to police

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/luke-s-brother-admits-mum-aided-evidence-1-958502
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 09:50:11 AM
One simple question;

Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

He had options available to him which included lying or telling the truth.

Why didn't he say his brother was home? Why didn't he tell the jury when asked; "yes Luke was home with me and therefore could not have murdered JJ.

Probably because he was threatened with legal action if he gave his version of what he believed to be the truth.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 09:53:56 AM
The case of the prosecution is a theory of events. A theory of events often relied on by witnesses whose recollection of events can be sketchy or in some cases based on lies in order to protect themselves/others, family members.etc

When CCTV/photographic evidence isn't available for example, the prosecution have no option but to rely on witness evidence. This evidence can and does change before a trial.

In an ideal world witnesses would have photographic memories and their default setting regarding giving evidence, would be based on honesty.

Witness statements can be added too if something relevant is remembered, but certain witness statements were not just added too, they were clearly changed to support the prosecution theory. For example, the dogs reaction at the V in the wall being changed to "it did not react at all" - So it was ok for others to change their statements, but not Luke's brother, who had simply forgot what they had for tea that night.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:00:17 AM
Probably because he was threatened with legal action if he gave his version of what he believed to be the truth.

What does Shane Mitchell say?

What is his reason for answering the way he did during his brothers MURDER trial?

Why would the threat of legal action matter to him; he wasn't on trial for murder, his brother was!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:01:28 AM
Probably because he was threatened with legal action if he gave his version of what he believed to be the truth.

What was Shane Mitchell's version of what he believed to be the truth?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:02:08 AM

Why would the threat of legal action matter to him; he wasn't on trial for murder, his brother was!

Really? The threat of being charged and the possibility of a prison sentence should not matter to him?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:02:34 AM
Witness statements can be added too if something relevant is remembered, but certain witness statements were not just added too, they were clearly changed to support the prosecution theory. For example, the dogs reaction at the V in the wall being changed to "it did not react at all" - So it was ok for others to change their statements, but not Luke's brother, who had simply forgot what they had for tea that night.

WHY did Shane Mitchell not corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:03:06 AM
What was Shane Mitchell's version of what he believed to be the truth?

Why do you ask questions that you already know the answer too?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:03:10 AM
Really? The threat of being charged and the possibility of a prison sentence should not matter to him?  @)(++(*

Why would it if he were being truthful?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:03:49 AM
Really? The threat of being charged and the possibility of a prison sentence should not matter to him?  @)(++(*

What did Shane Mitchell tell the trial?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:05:32 AM
Why would it if he were being truthful?

Simple really, because he had no evidence to support his version of the truth, he only had his word which had already been threatened with legal action.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:06:33 AM
What did Shane Mitchell tell the trial?

Quote

Why do you ask questions that you already know the answer too?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:06:46 AM
Why do you ask questions that you already know the answer too?

Mores to the point, why do you avoid answering them?

The changing of witness statements, regardless of whether it were the Mitchell family statements changing or others, is irrelevant to evidence given at trial.

Shane Mitchell was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi.

WHY didn't he say; "YES Luke was home with me?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:07:28 AM
Simple really, because he had no evidence to support his version of the truth, he only had his word which had already been threatened with legal action.

Unlike anyone else connected to the case, who were free to change their minds, remember things quite differently or appear to change their whole story over time and be able to identify people they initially said they could not see as their back was turned . Strange that isnt it
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:08:11 AM
Why would certain people change their statements to support the prosecution theory?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:08:48 AM
Simple really, because he had no evidence to support his version of the truth, he only had his word which had already been threatened with legal action.

WHY then didn't he use his "word" regardless of any threat?

What was Shane Mitchell REALLY afraid of?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:08:55 AM
Mores to the point, why do you avoid answering them?

The changing of witness statements, regardless of whether it were the Mitchell family statements changing or others, is irrelevant to evidence given at trial.

Shane Mitchell was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi.

WHY didn't he say; "YES Luke was home with me?

The Mitchell statements or others? You seriously believe that it isnt an issue?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:09:33 AM
Mores to the point, why do you avoid answering them?

The changing of witness statements, regardless of whether it were the Mitchell family statements changing or others, is irrelevant to evidence given at trial.

Shane Mitchell was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi.

WHY didn't he say; "YES Luke was home with me?

I have already answered them, just because you do not like the answer does not mean the questions have not been answered!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:09:55 AM
Unlike anyone else connected to the case, who were free to change their minds, remember things quite differently or appear to change their whole story over time and be able to identify people they initially said they could not see as their back was turned . Strange that isnt it

Luke Mitchell was on trial for murder NOT anyone else!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:10:28 AM
WHY then didn't he use his "word" regardless of any threat?

What was Shane Mitchell REALLY afraid of?

The threat of prison for telling the truth... Perhaps?  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:11:09 AM
Luke Mitchell was on trial for murder NOT anyone else!


Ooh lets make this really simple as you seem to be struggling . How did that come to be? He was on trial YES we know but based on WHAT?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:13:45 AM
I have already answered them, just because you do not like the answer does not mean the questions have not been answered!

If as you claim Luke Mitchell is innocent, its not me you need to convince.

You can deflect as much as you wish but it helps if you stick with the facts. Not your made up versions.

Why don't you admit you do not know why Shane Mitchell didn't corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
If as you claim Luke Mitchell is innocent, its not me you need to convince.

You can deflect as much as you wish but it helps if you stick with the facts. Not your made up versions.

Why don't you admit you do not know why Shane Mitchell didn't corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?


Its not justsayings made up version that convicted Luke. You dont know the case as well as you assume
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:16:29 AM
If as you claim Luke Mitchell is innocent, its not me you need to convince.

You can deflect as much as you wish but it helps if you stick with the facts. Not your made up versions.

Why don't you admit you do not know why Shane Mitchell didn't corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

I am sticking to the facts, was he or was he not threatened with legal action for saying his brother was home with him?  FACT!

Why do you not answer my question? Why did others change their statements to fit the prosecution theory?

Why do you not admit you do not have a clue?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:18:53 AM
I am sticking to the facts, was he or was he not threatened with legal action for saying his brother was home with him?  FACT!

Why do you not answer my question? Why did others change their statements to fit the prosecution theory?

Why do you not admit you do not have a clue?

 8@??)(
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:20:17 AM
The threat of prison for telling the truth... Perhaps?  *%87

As opposed to your opinion or conclusion which appears to have been formed on the basis of incomplete information; why don't you find out WHY Shane Mitchell did not corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

What does Shane Mitchell say was his reason for not confirming his brothers alibi?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
Seeing as though you seem to know all the facts Stephanie - Can you tell us who made the phone-call from the house when the Mother and Brother were not at a home,  did they have ghosts who liked to make phone-calls perhaps?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:21:57 AM
As opposed to your opinion or conclusion which appears to have been formed on the basis of incomplete information; why don't you find out WHY Shane Mitchell did not corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

What does Shane Mitchell say was his reason for not confirming his brothers alibi?

Why do you not furnish us with this complete information Stephanie?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:22:52 AM
If as you claim Luke Mitchell is innocent, its not me you need to convince.

You can deflect as much as you wish but it helps if you stick with the facts. Not your made up versions.

Why don't you admit you do not know why Shane Mitchell didn't corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

Rather than YOU answer any straight forward questions, its you who actually deflects/attacks.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:23:12 AM
As opposed to your opinion or conclusion which appears to have been formed on the basis of incomplete information; why don't you find out WHY Shane Mitchell did not corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

What does Shane Mitchell say was his reason for not confirming his brothers alibi?


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:23:22 AM
I am sticking to the facts, was he or was he not threatened with legal action for saying his brother was home with him?  FACT!

Why do you not answer my question? Why did others change their statements to fit the prosecution theory?

Why do you not admit you do not have a clue?

No you are sticking to a story you've been told, whether it be by the prosecution or some other source. You are sticking to a version of events as opposed to the actual facts of the trial.

WHAT does Shane Mitchell say?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
No you are sticking to a story you've been told, whether it be by the prosecution or some other source. You are sticking to a version of events as opposed to the actual facts of the trial.

WHAT does Shane Mitchell say?

And what are you sticking to Stephanie?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:28:34 AM
No you are sticking to a story you've been told, whether it be by the prosecution or some other source. You are sticking to a version of events as opposed to the actual facts of the trial.

WHAT does Shane Mitchell say?

 *&^^&

It is FACT that the brother were threatened with legal action  - it is well documented  *%87

Sticking with the prosecution story? I think it is you who is doing that! I forgot the prosecution always get it right don't they? And, no-one is ever wrongly convicted...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:28:43 AM
I am sticking to the facts, was he or was he not threatened with legal action for saying his brother was home with him?  FACT!

Why do you not answer my question? Why did others change their statements to fit the prosecution theory?

Why do you not admit you do not have a clue?

The "others" were not on trial for murder, Luke Mitchell was!

His brother Shane was asked during trial to confirm if Luke was home with him. Regardless of whether he was threatened with legal action he could have simply said YES Luke was home with me.

Why didn't he?

Why did he refuse to confirm Luke was home with him, therefore had an alibi?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:30:14 AM
The "others" were not on trial for murder, Luke Mitchell was!

His brother Shane was asked during trial to confirm if Luke was home with him. Regardless of whether he was threatened with legal action he could have simply said YES Luke was home with me.

Why didn't he?

Why did he refuse to confirm Luke was home with him, therefore had an alibi?

What part of "he would have been prosecuted" is not sinking in?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:32:15 AM
I am sticking to the facts, was he or was he not threatened with legal action for saying his brother was home with him?  FACT!

Why do you not answer my question? Why did others change their statements to fit the prosecution theory?

Why do you not admit you do not have a clue?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:32:39 AM
The "others" were not on trial for murder, Luke Mitchell was!

His brother Shane was asked during trial to confirm if Luke was home with him. Regardless of whether he was threatened with legal action he could have simply said YES Luke was home with me.

Why didn't he?

Why did he refuse to confirm Luke was home with him, therefore had an alibi?

And why do you feel the need to keep repeating over and over that Luke was on trial like we dont know that.

The statements, the facts not recorded properly (in Luke's case) the pure inconsistencies are all the things that resulted in Luke being convicted! it is important no matter how many times you repeat that he was on trial!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Seeing as though you seem to know all the facts Stephanie - Can you tell us who made the phone-call from the house when the Mother and Brother were not at a home,  did they have ghosts who liked to make phone-calls perhaps?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:33:32 AM
Why do you not furnish us with this complete information Stephanie?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:37:32 AM
Why don't you answer any questions which are posed to you?

Is it because you cannot?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:39:51 AM
Is the reason Shane Mitchell has never spoken out in support of his brother because he fears he may incriminate him further?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:41:08 AM
I'm not interested in hearsay.

Is the reason Shane Mitchell has never spoken out in support of his brother because he fears he may incriminate his brother further; like Shaun Hall did in the Simon Hall case?

No, why be interested in "hearsay" when out and out speculation will do!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:42:44 AM
No, why be interested in "hearsay" when out and out speculation will do!  @)(++(*

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:44:22 AM
Why don't you answer any questions which are posed to you?

Is it because you cannot?

Your questions are based on hearsay my questions are based on facts.

Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during his trial?

Why would he fear being threatened if he was sticking to the truth?


Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:47:29 AM
No, why be interested in "hearsay" when out and out speculation will do!  @)(++(*

Shane Mitchell's was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi during trial. Nothing speculative in that. He failed to do so. WHY?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:48:40 AM
Your questions are based on hearsay my questions are based on facts.

 *&^^&

Quote
Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during his trial?

Already answered, a few times in fact!

Quote
Why would he fear being threatened if he was sticking to the truth?

See above!

Quote
Simon Halls mother lied during her sons murder trial.She was also aware of the consequences of her actions if it were found she lied.

How on earth could they possibly prove that they were telling the truth?  And you acknowledge that the thread was indeed there, to both of them  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:49:12 AM
Shane Mitchell's was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi during trial. Nothing speculative in that. He failed to do so. WHY?


if only that was the only error with this case, wouldnt life be simple?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:50:41 AM
As opposed to your opinion or conclusion which appears to have been formed on the basis of incomplete information; why don't you find out WHY Shane Mitchell did not corroborate his brothers alibi during trial?

What does Shane Mitchell say was his reason for not confirming his brothers alibi?

Would you care to furnish us with complete information? Or is this just speculation also?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:54:06 AM
Give it a rest...

Luke was a child. No one is interested in how many times you can say his name or have a quick mention of Sandra's

Nothing he did will help Luke so NO it isnt relevant.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:54:50 AM
Shane Mitchell's was asked to corroborate his brothers alibi during trial. Nothing speculative in that. He failed to do so. WHY?

No, it is your reason why he didn't which is speculative. Would you want to go to prison for telling the truth? I do not think I would.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 10:55:52 AM

if only that was the only error with this case, wouldnt life be simple?

It's a BIG "error" to make during your brothers murder trial!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 10:56:46 AM
Give it a rest...

Luke was a child. No one is interested in how many times you can say his name or have a quick mention of Sandra's

Nothing he did will help Luke so NO it isnt relevant.

Exactly! It would have just ended up with them both being imprisoned - he could not prove he was telling the truth and was threatened with legal action on his version of the truth - clearly a no-win situation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 10:58:20 AM
Based on everything that happened to Luke and possible evidence, is it any wonder its a no win situation
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 11:17:55 AM
Based on everything that happened to Luke and possible evidence, is it any wonder its a no win situation

WHY didn't Shane corroborate his brothers version of events during Lukes trial?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 11:19:34 AM
WHY didn't Shane corroborate his brothers version of events during Lukes trial?


 @)(++(*  should be grateful for the repeat at least you didnt mention Hall.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 11:20:51 AM

 @)(++(*  should be grateful for the repeat at least you didnt mention Hall.

You need to look at the bigger picture and stop being so dismissive of the facts!

It's a fact that 14 year old boys DO commit murder!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 11:23:08 AM
You need to look at the bigger picture and stop being so dismissive of the facts!

It's a fact that 14 year old boys DO commit murder!

You need to stop presuming what I am thinking or in fact know! There are many elements in the case that are so wrong, it is actually staggering. This remains whether Luke is guilty or Innocent. Wrong is wrong!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 11:23:37 AM
You need to look at the bigger picture and stop being so dismissive of the facts!

It's a fact that 14 year old boys DO commit murder!

No-one is suggesting otherwise!  But just because 14 year old boys do commit murder does not prove Luke must be guilty, this is another distorted view.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on November 08, 2018, 11:28:08 AM
WHY didn't Shane corroborate his brothers version of events during Lukes trial?

I agree with you, Stephanie, that Shane's behaviour on the stand is troubling. But I don't think it's as black and white as you seem to.

For starters, the pornography and masturbation was only raised when he was on the stand, so he was understandably humiliated and flummoxed. And it's true and doesn't say that Luke was in the house but doesn't say he wasn't in the house either, just that he didn't check and presumed he wasn't but he could have been.

Also, his treatment during questioning by police is extreme and he says he was left doubting anything about that night. Appeal judges later describe it as disgusting or despicable or deplorable.... I definitely wrote it down somewhere. So how reliable is any of it? It's a big muddle.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 11:32:04 AM
I agree with you, Stephanie, that Shane's behaviour on the stand is troubling. But I don't think it's as black and white as you seem to.

For starters, the pornography and masturbation was only raised when he was on the stand, so he was understandably humiliated and flummoxed. And it's true and doesn't say that Luke was in the house but doesn't say he wasn't in the house either, just that he didn't check and presumed he wasn't but he could have been.

Also, his treatment during questioning by police is extreme and he says he was left doubting anything about that night. Appeal judges later describe it as disgusting or despicable or deplorable.... I definitely wrote it down somewhere. So how reliable is any of it? It's a big muddle.

Correct! The appeal judges said if the brother was a suspect and not a witness the interviews would not have been admissible, or words to that effect. The same as Luke's interviews, his rights were breached but that did not warrant a referral to the appeal court - his case should have been taken to ECHR.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 11:35:21 AM
No-one is suggesting otherwise!  But just because 14 year old boys do commit murder does not prove Luke must be guilty, this is another distorted view.

Why didn't his brother corroborate his alibi during trial?

Why has he NEVER corroborated his alibi? Why has he never come out to publicly support his brother?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 11:38:43 AM
Why didn't his brother corroborate his alibi during trial?

Why has he NEVER corroborated his alibi? Why has he never come out to publicly support his brother?

Why are you keep asking me the same questions when I've already given my opinion based on the facts available?

Just because you keep asking the same questions does not mean the answers will change!   ^*&&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on November 08, 2018, 11:43:02 AM
Why didn't his brother corroborate his alibi during trial?

Why has he NEVER corroborated his alibi? Why has he never come out to publicly support his brother?

Again:


For starters, the pornography and masturbation was only raised when he was on the stand, so he was understandably humiliated and flummoxed. And it's true and doesn't say that Luke was in the house but doesn't say he wasn't in the house either, just that he didn't check and presumed he wasn't but he could have been.

Also, his treatment during questioning by police is extreme and he says he was left doubting anything about that night. Appeal judges later describe it as disgusting or despicable or deplorable.... I definitely wrote it down somewhere. So how reliable is any of it? It's a big muddle.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 11:53:08 AM
Again:


For starters, the pornography and masturbation was only raised when he was on the stand, so he was understandably humiliated and flummoxed. And it's true and doesn't say that Luke was in the house but doesn't say he wasn't in the house either, just that he didn't check and presumed he wasn't but he could have been.


You're missing the point;

Shane Mitchell knew what he had been doing (whether or not he was embarrassed is irrelevant) It may have appeared to come as a shock to him when asked about it on the stand during his brothers trial but let's face it, he must have known there was a chance the police would find out when they looked at his computer and the prosecution would raise it during the trial.

It was Shane Mitchell's decision to choose to keep this evidence from the police; I presume he also knew right from wrong? I'm referring to his omission of evidence btw.

All he was asked to do was corroborate his brothers alibi. He didn't!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 11:55:43 AM
Again:


For starters, the pornography and masturbation was only raised when he was on the stand, so he was understandably humiliated and flummoxed. And it's true and doesn't say that Luke was in the house but doesn't say he wasn't in the house either, just that he didn't check and presumed he wasn't but he could have been.

Also, his treatment during questioning by police is extreme and he says he was left doubting anything about that night. Appeal judges later describe it as disgusting or despicable or deplorable.... I definitely wrote it down somewhere. So how reliable is any of it? It's a big muddle.

Wasn't the pornography proven to have been mere pop-ups on the computer? And a mountain was made out of a molehill?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on November 08, 2018, 12:01:52 PM
You're missing the point;

Shane Mitchell knew what he had been doing (whether or not he was embarrassed is irrelevant) It may have appeared to come as a shock to him when asked about it on the stand during his brothers trial but let's face it, he must have known there was a chance the police would find out when they looked at his computer and the prosecution would raise it during the trial.

It was Shane Mitchell's decision to choose to keep this evidence from the police; I presume he also knew right from wrong? I'm referring to his omission of evidence btw.

All he was asked to do was corroborate his brothers alibi. He didn't!

How have I missed the point? Shane didn't have experience of giving evidence in a murder trial. He was embarrassed by the porn revelation. He couldn't say that Luke was definitely in the house but he also couldn't say he definitely wasn't. So he may not have been able to support the alibi but he didn't refute the alibi either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all charges were dropped against Shane and his Mum.

Will you answer a question now? Why do you attach no significance to the rest of the search party all completely changing their statements regarding Luke's behaviour that night?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:04:14 PM
Your knowledge and opinion is based on the word of a proven liar.

My knowledge is based on a wealth of evidence (a lot being firsthand) and paperwork dating back to before Simon Hall was born.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:04:36 PM
You're missing the point;

Shane Mitchell knew what he had been doing (whether or not he was embarrassed is irrelevant) It may have appeared to come as a shock to him when asked about it on the stand during his brothers trial but let's face it, he must have known there was a chance the police would find out when they looked at his computer and the prosecution would raise it during the trial.

It was Shane Mitchell's decision to choose to keep this evidence from the police; I presume he also knew right from wrong? I'm referring to his omission of evidence btw.

All he was asked to do was corroborate his brothers alibi. He didn't!

He was never asked to do this during the trial.  Had he repeated what he said about Luke being home he would have been charged with a criminal offence - even if he believed what he was saying was the truth! Baz has pointed out he never said Luke WASN'T home. It is you who clearly is not accepting facts!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:07:17 PM
How have I missed the point? Shane didn't have experience of giving evidence in a murder trial. He was embarrassed by the porn revelation. He couldn't say that Luke was definitely in the house but he also couldn't say he definitely wasn't. So he may not have been able to support the alibi but he didn't refute the alibi either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all charges were dropped against Shane and his Mum.

Will you answer a question now? Why do you attach no significance to the rest of the search party all completely changing their statements regarding Luke's behaviour that night?

I asked the same question but like the prosecution, she deemed it unimportant. I think it is vital to the conviction
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:11:10 PM
He was never asked to do this during the trial.  Had he repeated what he said about Luke being home he would have been charged with a criminal offence - even if he believed what he was saying was the truth! Baz has pointed out he never said Luke WASN'T home. It is you who clearly is not accepting facts!

Let's face it, You don't appear interested in facts.

You are defending a man you've never met and only have second hand knowledge of.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:11:22 PM
My knowledge is based on a wealth of evidence (a lot being firsthand) and paperwork dating back to before Simon Hall was born.

We only have your word for the above...

Quote
Family members of murder suspects/murderers can and do lie for various reasons.

For example, some lie to protect their own reputations, some lie to hide family secrets, some lie out of misguided loyalty.etc
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:13:37 PM
Let's face it, You don't appear interested in facts.

You are defending a man you've never met and only have second hand knowledge of.

So you assume. At least justsaying is working on facts not something else  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:14:03 PM
My knowledge is based on a wealth of evidence (a lot being firsthand) and paperwork dating back to before Simon Hall was born.


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:15:49 PM
A lot of things are assumed on here just like at Luke's trial
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 08, 2018, 12:21:18 PM
Just to remind posters that you have already been told to keep on topic. This thread is NOT about Simon Hall; it is about Luke Mitchell.

And, please could we be civil when debating with each other---makes for a nicer world.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:24:02 PM
Just to remind posters that you have already been told to keep on topic. This thread is NOT about Simon Hall; it is about Luke Mitchell.

And, please could we be civil when debating with each other---makes for a nicer world.  Thank you.

and it makes an actual debate on Lukes case far easier which is the whole point! Here's to nice posts that depends purely on keeping on topic and not attacking others!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:24:07 PM
Just to remind posters that you have already been told to keep on topic. This thread is NOT about Simon Hall; it is about Luke Mitchell.

And, please could we be civil when debating with each other---makes for a nicer world.  Thank you.

You keep removing my posts, am I not allowed to defend myself against allegations which Stephanie herself has been guilty of in the past? If you do not want me to respond I suggest you move her post.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Baz on November 08, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
Just to remind posters that you have already been told to keep on topic. This thread is NOT about Simon Hall; it is about Luke Mitchell.

And, please could we be civil when debating with each other---makes for a nicer world.  Thank you.

I hope I have remained respectful, I certainly aim to.

I would suggest that if MODS genuinely want people to remain respectful then remove the option to use this:  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:25:33 PM
Let's face it, You don't appear interested in facts.

You are defending a man you've never met and only have second hand knowledge of.

You did this too!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:28:38 PM
You keep removing my posts, am I not allowed to defend myself against allegations which Stephanie herself has been guilty of in the past? If you do not want me to respond I suggest you move her post.

I agree. Moderating is tough when things go astray but it always goes the same way. Someone posts off topic over and over again then goads, why shouldnt you be able to defend yourself?

maybe the original poster needs a big think on how they post!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:35:46 PM
I hope I have remained respectful, I certainly aim to.

I would suggest that if MODS genuinely want people to remain respectful then remove the option to use this:  *%87

Not sure that is the issue Baz without creating more posts that need deleting
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:36:25 PM
I hope I have remained respectful, I certainly aim to.

I would suggest that if MODS genuinely want people to remain respectful then remove the option to use this:  *%87

I think the  *%87 emoji is the least of this threads problems.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:39:26 PM
You did this too!

Past tense
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:41:33 PM
Past tense

Oh that is ok then  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:41:53 PM
I am trying to work out what is the most shocking part of Luke's case regarding the errors made. From the witnesses to a  possible suspect that no one is really sure who it was or whether he was really ruled out

So many discrepancies that you have to ask how was it all allowed to happen?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:44:33 PM
Oh that is ok then  *%87

You are making the same mistakes I once made and the fact you don't appear able to acknowledge that I've learned lessons from my mistakes. Your continuous use of my past mistakes to support your posts suggests a quite obvious personal grudge and an inability to see reason and a total lack of insight. I base my opninon on your numerous posts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:44:59 PM
I am trying to work out what is the most shocking part of Luke's case regarding the errors made. From the witnesses to a  possible suspect that no one is really sure who it was or whether he was really ruled out

So many discrepancies that you have to ask how was it all allowed to happen?

I think the police had tunnel-vision when it came to Luke, they were patting themselves on the back for a job well done before he was even charged!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:45:38 PM
You are making the same mistakes I once made

That is your opinion.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:47:29 PM
Right from the discovery of Jodi so it seems. Wonder who used Luke's phone and deleted stuff while it was in the hands of the Police? The only reason would be that it could have helped him.

When people retire and look back at their work and cases they have dealt with, makes you wonder what they think of their actions in this case now
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:50:20 PM
Right from the discovery of Jodi so it seems. Wonder who used Luke's phone and deleted stuff while it was in the hands of the Police? The only reason would be that it could have helped him.

When people retire and look back at their work and cases they have dealt with, makes you wonder what they think of their actions in this case now

It could have only been the people who had possession of the phone. I wonder who made the phone-call from Lukes home on the tea-time when he was not supposed to have been home and the others were proven to have been elsewhere at the time. I wonder why people changed their statements to make Luke look guilty.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:51:18 PM
I think the police had tunnel-vision when it came to Luke, they were patting themselves on the back for a job well done before he was even charged!

The tunnel vision to which you refer is apparent in all your posts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:51:53 PM
It wasnt just one person either was it? Wonder what they too think about their actions now.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:52:32 PM
The tunnel vision to which you refer is apparent in all your posts.

As is apparent in your posts and opinions! Do go away!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 12:53:21 PM
The tunnel vision to which you refer is apparent in all your posts.

Can you stop attacking people now please. (for ref look to yourself)

Mrswah has said no more. We are actually trying to discuss Luke's case!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:56:42 PM
It wasnt just one person either was it? Wonder what they too think about their actions now.

There is also the facts about the 2 boys at the V in the wall at the time when the brutal murder was supposed to have been taking place - how did they not hear it? How were they allowed to get away with the lies they told and not coming forward until the police appeal knowing what had happened just yards away from where their moped was parked? Where were they when the moped was left on its own? How did they get away with saying they could not remember?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 08, 2018, 12:58:26 PM
PLEASE----report offending posts, rather than retaliate on the thread. They will be dealt with!!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 12:58:47 PM
We only have your word for the above...

Does the quite obvious fact no one is claiming he was innocent after all not answer this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 12:59:30 PM
The t-shirt raises more questions...

A black t-shirt with visible sperm stains - DNA from the sisters boyfriend but none from the sister who supposed to have owned the top etc, etc...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:00:34 PM
The same bike that would be used as an excuse not to hear anything whether it was working or not. No other people seemed to be of interest right from the start

The logs of who made up the search party, who was there when Jodi was discovered or even who made what calls!

People question the reaction of a 14 year not sure how an adult would behave in the situation.

Other peoples altered recall was due to the events that happened but the actions and words of a young 14 year old werent dismissed quote so easily.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:01:43 PM
The t-shirt raises more questions...

A black t-shirt with visible sperm stains - DNA from the sisters boyfriend but none from the sister who supposed to have owned the top etc, etc...

the  pure amount and availability of black shirts yet it had to be borrowed!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:02:40 PM
Does the quite obvious fact no one is claiming he was innocent after all not answer this?


No! Because it is taken out of context - this was regarding his relationship with his mother and the fact he was a liar, nothing to do with his innocence or lack of it. Stop bringing Simon back into it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:06:42 PM

No! Because it is taken out of context - this was regarding his relationship with his mother and the fact he was a liar, nothing to do with his innocence or lack of it. Stop bringing Simon back into it!

Rather than jumping on the bandwagon, why don't you err on the side of caution?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:07:41 PM
The t-shirt raises more questions...

A black t-shirt with visible sperm stains - DNA from the sisters boyfriend but none from the sister who supposed to have owned the top etc, etc...

Are you covertly accusing JJ's relatives of murder?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:08:29 PM
Rather than jumping on the bandwagon, why don't you err on the side of caution?

Rather than trying to sneak Simon back on the thread - why don't you stop telling people what to do!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:09:16 PM
Are you covertly accusing JJ's relatives of murder?

Clearly your distorted view - I am questioning the evidence, in case you missed that part!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Are you covertly accusing JJ's relatives of murder?

That is a fact... we are discussing black t shirts and the fact that Jodi owned many and they were available. The t shirt she was wearing could have in fact been her own!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
That is a fact... we are discussing black t shirts and the fact that Jodi owned many and they were available. The t shirt she was wearing could have in fact been her own!

There was someone's sperm found on the t-shirt, which is a fact.

There was no DNA from the sister found on the t-shirt, which is also a fact.

I have stated facts, not pointed the finger!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:14:01 PM
It's you who is taking things out of context and obviously why you struggle to see the bigger picture in this case. You appear to have allowed your opinion of me to cloud your judgement?!

ALL his relationships were dysfunctional, not just the one he had with his mother.

If you want to keep referring to Simon why do you not make up a thread where you can do so without annoying people. I do not have an opinion of you, you are not that important!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:14:46 PM
 if it was freshly laundered the dna did well to remain, The whole info regarding the t shirt and suggestion of whose it actually was is cloudy to say the least .

The owner and the scenario were too quickly accepted
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:16:59 PM
if it was freshly laundered the dna did well to remain, The whole info regarding the t shirt and suggestion of whose it actually was is cloudy to say the least .

The owner and the scenario were too quickly accepted

I agree.

If it was freshly laundered then how did only one set of DNA remain and not the other? If it was not freshly laundered then how was the sisters DNA not there also?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:18:04 PM
Even the events leading up to the Sister suggesting it was hers are strange too like the suggestion was put to them not the other way round!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
Even the events leading up to the Sister suggesting it was hers are strange too like the suggestion was put to them not the other way round!

More to the point how can it be assumed fact that JJ borrowed the t-shirt without asking? It was not like she could just pop into the sisters bedroom and take it, the sister did not live in the same house...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:20:34 PM
Considering the implications if she hadnt borrowed it, it is quite unbelievable
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:27:36 PM
How have I missed the point? Shane didn't have experience of giving evidence in a murder trial. He was embarrassed by the porn revelation. He couldn't say that Luke was definitely in the house but he also couldn't say he definitely wasn't. So he may not have been able to support the alibi but he didn't refute the alibi either.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all charges were dropped against Shane and his Mum.

Will you answer a question now? Why do you attach no significance to the rest of the search party all completely changing their statements regarding Luke's behaviour that night?

What did the SCCRC say in response to Shane Mitchell's evidence? I'm presuming submissions were made regarding this aspect of the trial? The police ruled the others out as suspects. What significance should I attach?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
If you want to keep referring to Simon why do you not make up a thread where you can do so without annoying people. I do not have an opinion of you, you are not that important!

There's a wealth of evidence showing the contrary!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:34:04 PM
What did the SCCRC say in response to Shane Mitchell's evidence? I'm presuming submissions were made regarding this aspect of the trial? The police ruled the others out as suspects. What significance should I attach?

And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:35:01 PM
There's a wealth of evidence showing the contrary!

Again, that is your opinion! Back to Luke!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:37:47 PM
Considering the implications if she hadnt borrowed it, it is quite unbelievable

Describe the implications to which you refer
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:38:18 PM
And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

Would you care to answer these questions? Or is it again the case these are questions for which there is no answer?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:39:11 PM
And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

What did Lukes defence team say about this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:40:11 PM
What did Lukes defence team say about this?

You tell me, you seem to have all the facts and full information.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:40:44 PM
Describe the implications to which you refer

Why don't you answer some of the questions put to you?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
You tell me, you seem to have all the facts and full information.

"Scott Forbes put forward Mr Kane's name

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=594.0
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:45:52 PM
"Scott Forbes put forward Mr Kane's name

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=594.0

You do a great job of dodging questions you cannot answer.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:46:22 PM
Why don't you answer some of the questions put to you?

 @)(++(*

why don't you stop telling people what to do!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:48:19 PM
And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

Would you care to answer these questions? Or is it again the case these are questions for which there is no answer?


It's already answered

"Scott Forbes put forward Mr Kane's name

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=594.0
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:48:39 PM
@)(++(*

Just taking a leaf out of your book Stephanie, as Jixy has said, you can give it out but you sure cannot take it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:50:50 PM
It's already answered

So you agree there is no answer for these things which are truly questionable? That in itself must tell you that there is something seriously wrong with the way Luke was treated in comparison with others who had no alibi either and  who were right at the scene of the murder at the relevant times.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:51:20 PM
Don't you have a mind of your own?

Sure do, but if its good enough for the goose...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:51:32 PM
And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

Everything connected to those 2 was a complete mess but it was allowed. Luke didnt have the same opportunity
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:52:12 PM
So you agree there is no answer for these things which are truly questionable? That in itself must tell you that there is something seriously wrong with the way Luke was treated in comparison with others who had no alibi either and  who were right at the scene of the murder at the relevant times.

Manipulation won't change the facts.

Other suspects were ruled out!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:53:50 PM
So you agree there is no answer for these things which are truly questionable? That in itself must tell you that there is something seriously wrong with the way Luke was treated in comparison with others who had no alibi either and  who were right at the scene of the murder at the relevant times.

There is a massive difference in the way Luke was treated. Take the Police man asking an innocent 14 year old to take him to the body of his girlfriend. When would that happen? The only child in the search party but on occasion they assumed he was alone. How can that be?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:54:03 PM
Manipulation won't change the facts.

Other suspects were ruled out!

What facts am I manipulating?

On what basis were they ruled out - on the basis they could not remember what they were doing there or why they were missing from their moped. Please!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:54:15 PM
Everything connected to those 2 was a complete mess but it was allowed. Luke didnt have the same opportunity

And if you were familiar with other cases you'll know this isn't unique. Doesn't make them guilty nor does what you've posted point away from Luke Mitchell's guilt!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:54:54 PM
Manipulation won't change the facts.

Other suspects were ruled out!

Not sure how many times this has been said now but the question is why were they ruled out? their original statements totally changed shape and facts!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:55:17 PM
What facts am I manipulating?


These

So you agree there is no answer for these things which are truly questionable? That in itself must tell you that there is something seriously wrong with the way Luke was treated in comparison with others who had no alibi either and  who were right at the scene of the murder at the relevant times.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 01:56:05 PM
There is a massive difference in the way Luke was treated. Take the Police man asking an innocent 14 year old to take him to the body of his girlfriend. When would that happen? The only child in the search party but on occasion they assumed he was alone. How can that be?

Exactly! There were others there who were treated with kid-gloves, everyone, apart from the 14 year old child!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:56:20 PM
What facts am I manipulating?

On what basis were they ruled out - on the basis they could not remember what they were doing there or why they were missing from their moped. Please!

The very same moped that drown out any noise yet it was quite acceptable to be stood not making any noise without a valid reason or explanation as to where they were or most importantly what they were doing!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:56:35 PM

On what basis were they ruled out - on the basis they could not remember what they were doing there or why they were missing from their moped. Please!

You tell me

https://www.scotsman.com/news/mitchell-legal-team-drops-interest-in-jodi-suspect-1-1154608
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 01:57:07 PM
And if you were familiar with other cases you'll know this isn't unique. Doesn't make them guilty nor does what you've posted point away from Luke Mitchell's guilt!


I havent actually stated guilt or innocence. That is not the point i am making!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 01:57:49 PM
Not sure how many times this has been said now but the question is why were they ruled out? their original statements totally changed shape and facts!

What's your point
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:00:40 PM
I asked...

And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

You replied...

Quote
Scott Forbes put forward Mr Kane's name

You answer makes no sense in relation to the questions put to you  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:01:46 PM
justsaying just post about Luke or this will be a long day. she clearly doesnt want to discuss the case just argue with you. There must be something better she can be doing
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
You seem to be going round in circles

Guilty men like Luke Mitchell rely on people like you

And corrupt systems rely on people like you who cannot see the wood for the trees.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:03:51 PM
justsaying just post about Luke or this will be a long day. she clearly doesnt want to discuss the case just argue with you. There must be something better she can be doing

That is the thing -  I was posting about Luke, asking relevant questions which are being dodged with stupid answers.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:04:59 PM
I know you are ...patience of a saint lol there is so much to discuss without stupid interruptions
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:05:43 PM
It is you who manipulates when you go back and edit posts after the post has already been answered.

The Scott Forbes post does not answer the questions posed and if you think it does then again your views are distorted!

If as you've observed you know I sometimes go back and edit my posts why don't you allow more time before replying?

Why do you falsely accuse me of manipulation?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:07:21 PM
If as you've observed you know I sometimes go back and edit my posts why don't you allow more time before replying?

Why do you falsely accuse me of manipulation?

Why do I have to wait for you? Why don't you finish the comment before posting? Why do you falsely accuse me of manipulation when you clearly did not answer what I had asked?  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:10:15 PM
There is also the facts about the 2 boys at the V in the wall at the time when the brutal murder was supposed to have been taking place - how did they not hear it? How were they allowed to get away with the lies they told and not coming forward until the police appeal knowing what had happened just yards away from where their moped was parked? Where were they when the moped was left on its own? How did they get away with saying they could not remember?

How did they ever get away with it?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:10:52 PM
And what was the reason for ruling them out as quickly as they did? Just their own word, nothing else!

The boys at the V when the murder was supposed to have taken place... at the time when the moped was not running and was propped against the wall with the 2 boys missing, how do you think they failed to hear such a brutal crime taking place? Why did they not come forward earlier and only did so because witnesses put them at the scene? Why were they allowed to say they could not remember what they were doing when the moped was unattended? Why the heck did the police not put more weight on these facts? Because they only had Luke in their vision, that is why!

What were the names of the 2 boys at the V?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
How did they ever get away with it?

I cannot understand how their word was taken on face value yet Luke's was not. It does show the comparisons, and that is in no-way manipulating any of the facts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:12:15 PM
What were the names of the 2 boys at the V?

Not Kane or Scott!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:13:04 PM
I cannot understand how their word was taken on face value yet Luke's was not. It does show the comparisons, and that is in no-way manipulating any of the facts.


its not like their story even added up in any way to make it plausible is it
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:14:28 PM
What were the names of the 2 boys at the V?

John Ferris and Gordon Dickie
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:15:24 PM

its not like their story even added up in any way to make it plausible is it

No, "I cannot remember" just does not cut it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:17:34 PM
No, "I cannot remember" just does not cut it!

most of what followed didnt cut it either
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:18:53 PM
most of what followed didnt cut it either

My opinion is - there was as much circumstantial evidence against these two as there was Luke.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
John Ferris and Gordon Dickie

https://www.scotsman.com/news/ex-drug-dealer-denies-he-was-behind-murder-of-cousin-jodi-1-563199
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
My opinion is - there was as much circumstantial evidence against these two as there was Luke.

I have to agree. Given the discrepancies in the timings just adds to it. Luke's phone used just after the presumed timing, had not one trace of blood etc on it

They were at the scene at around the time with missing half an hour but never really had to put up much of an explanation

Lots of chances to fill in the blanks that were never considered.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:22:11 PM
https://www.scotsman.com/news/ex-drug-dealer-denies-he-was-behind-murder-of-cousin-jodi-1-563199

Ok we have his word for it, with no evidence to back it up whatsoever...

Does not negate the fact that witnesses put them at the V at the exact time the murder is alleged to have taken place yet they heard nothing, saw nothing and couldn't remember why they left their bike unattended...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:24:59 PM
The only way cannabis could make you act violently is if you had a psychotic episode through smoking it - I do not believe this has been alleged in Luke's case. Nevertheless, there is a large amount of children who smoke cannabis on a daily basis, it does not mean they have the propensity to kill.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:25:12 PM
I have to agree. Given the discrepancies in the timings just adds to it. Luke's phone used just after the presumed timing, had not one trace of blood etc on it

They were at the scene at around the time with missing half an hour but never really had to put up much of an explanation

Lots of chances to fill in the blanks that were never considered.

It just begs the question why were they believed with nothing but their own word, even though they were at the scene at the right time - yet Luke was not believed? This should be questioned and has every right to be questioned, whether police ruled them out or not. They ruled them out on face value, nothing else. In fact these were the only positive ID's at the scene at the time of the murder - fact!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:25:53 PM
It just begs the question why were they believed with nothing but their own word, even though they were at the scene at the right time - yet Luke was not believed? This should be questioned and has every right to be questioned, whether police ruled them out or not. They ruled them out on face value, nothing else. In fact these were the only positive ID's at the scene at the time of the murder - fact!

I do not think it is fair to label someone who smoked cannabis a "drug addict" - it's not like he was addicted to heroin. Cannabis has been legalised in some major countries and has just been legalised on prescription in this country. It is not a hard drug and a lot of people use it, does this mean everyone who smokes it are not trustworthy?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:27:18 PM


And? It was you who was labelling people drug addicts - I never did or have!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 02:29:21 PM
It just begs the question why were they believed with nothing but their own word, even though they were at the scene at the right time - yet Luke was not believed? This should be questioned and has every right to be questioned, whether police ruled them out or not. They ruled them out on face value, nothing else. In fact these were the only positive ID's at the scene at the time of the murder - fact!

it sums up the whole case really doesnt it...

just like the description of Luke and his clothes changed again after press releases. All wrong!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:31:36 PM
it sums up the whole case really doesnt it...

just like the description of Luke and is clothes changed again after press releases. All wrong!

When it comes to fairness and the treatment of others in comparison to Luke  &^^&*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 02:54:29 PM
John Ferris and Gordon Dickie

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg20897.html?PHPSESSID=dtkofgrqp4skls1ctca2g954h0#msg20897
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg20897.html?PHPSESSID=dtkofgrqp4skls1ctca2g954h0#msg20897

I wish I had put a bet on you going to find a link which would try to explain what they could not!  @)(++(*

I am sure when the finger was pointed at them they would have only been too happy to say what they had seen if they had seen it - I do not agree with those posts you have linked, in fact I think the assertion is quite absurd on the basis they were being accused of a crime they allegedly saw someone else commit  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:01:28 PM
Not forgetting that it is just someone's opinion on another forum which is not opinion based on evidence or fact!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 03:26:11 PM
"THE words coming out of his mouth were enough to chill the heart.

His voice flat and emotionless, Luke Mitchell was describing to me the moment he discovered the body of his girlfriend, mutilated and abandoned on the muddy earth.

For the schoolgirl who died an unspeakable death, horrifically mutilated, there was no expression of love from Luke Mitchell - and no tears.

This was Luke's story in his own words - the account the jury never heard as the teenager never gave evidence during his trial.

'My torch lit up the path like daytime and I was about 12 yards from Jodi when I saw her lying there,' he began. 'She was so white. Her throat had been slit and her head was to the side.

'Her eyes were staring up at me and she was naked but for a pair of socks, I think... no, she wasn't wearing anything. Her body was so white and she was just staring and staring.

'I shouted to the others but I couldn't tell them I'd found Jodi because I didn't want to upset her gran, but she said she wanted to come over the wall.

'The others held her back but she scrambled over the wall and said if her granddaugher was there she wanted to be with her.

'She sat down beside Jodi and cradled her in her arms.

I guess the family are suspicious of me because my dog Mia was the one who found Jodi and I was the one who first saw her lying there.' I interviewed Mitchell months before he had been charged with the murder of Jodi, and days after he had been questioned by detectives hunting for her killer.

Aged 15 at the time, the Luke Mitchell in front of me was an adult in everything but name. Chain smoking and dressed in baggy jeans and a dark-coloured T-shirt, he exuded confidence bordering on arrogance.

Yet all the time his eyes flicked towards his mother Corinne, as if seeking reassurance from the woman with whom he obviously had an extra-special bond.

Mitchell and his mother were like a well-rehearsed double act. As Corinne Mitchell ranted about the unfair treatment of her son, Mitchell would pace the floor as he vented his anger at the way the police had dealt with him.

Then his mother would touch him lightly on the arm and he would, as if by magic, calm down.

And as he gave his version of his whereabouts the night Jodi was brutally murdered, he constantly looked to her for reassurance, particularly when recalling the time he left the house to meet his girlfriend and the time he went on to meet his friends.

In the first moments of meeting Mitchell I was struck by how confident he was.

After a day at school he knew he was about to meet a journalist, but he walked into the room with a nonchalant air.

As I shook his hand, he gave me a cursory glance before sitting in a chair diagonally across from his mother.

It was clear he was a very sexually aware young man. I immediately felt uncomfortable as his eyes slowly looked me up and down. Mitchell may be a child but his sexuality, arrogance and misplaced maturity make him appear far older than his tender years.

There were a few flashes of childlike behaviour. But they only came as he was distracted by Mia - the dog he claimed picked up Jodi's scent and led him to her body.

As his story unfolded, it was clear he was a master of manipulation. His story was just too word-perfect. It was also, as has now transpired, a tissue of lies.

This was a 15-year-old who never buckled once during interviews with some of Scotland's most experienced policemen. The more police pushed him, the more arrogant he became.

He boasted to me: 'After a few hours I told them, "charge me or let me go".'

Mitchell leaned forward in his chair and stared intently at me as he told me how police had made his life 'a misery' and how they tried to relate to him through stories of rap star Eminem, shock rocker Marilyn Manson and pop singer Holly Valance.

He said: 'The cops asked me about my relationship with Jodi's friend Laura.

They kept asking me about the Eminem song Kim, the song where he fantasises about killing his wife.

'They asked me about the follow- up song in which Eminem sings about the "two of us", meaning him and his daughter. They asked me about Laura and if I wanted it to be just the two of us and asked if that was why I killed Jodi.

'It was all rubbish. Jodi and I would still be together if she was here today.' Detectives were astonished by how arrogant Mitchell was during interviews. Even when confronted with evidence he remained defiant.

He seemed to realise police were trying to relate to him as a teenager and find some kind of common ground.

However, as Mitchell saw himself as an adult, he found the tactic amusing and gained a sense of confidence as the interrogation went on.

Mitchell took to pacing the floor again as he told me how he had 'got really mad' with police.

Clenching his fists he said: 'I started to get really mad after about four hours and asked them to charge me if they had anything to charge me with.' It was clear Mitchell enjoyed playing cat and mouse with detectives. He said: ' One copper stood, looked me straight in my face and said, "We've got you. We found your semen on her bra.

We've found sperm similar to yours." I laughed and said, "If it's similar, it's not the same then, is it?" ' He told how detectives showed him a video reconstruction of how it would have been impossible for him to see Jodi's body in the dark woods with only a torch - implying he must have known exactly where she was lying.

He said: 'Jodi's body was replaced with a tailor's dummy and I pointed out to police that I could see a limb. That' s when they switched the video off.'

But then, chillingly, he revealed that he, Jodi and their friend Laura had been talking about funeral arrangements a few nights before the murder.

He said: 'What happened to Jodi was so ironic because the Thursday before she died we were all talking about what records we would want played at our funeral.' I could picture him that night, talking in the bedroom with Jodi - taking a perverse pleasure in knowing the fate that awaited her.

He said police took a lock knife from him after being tipped off by friends.

But he added: 'The bloke who said this is a fantasist. Another of his friends told police Jodi and I were arguing all the time. But that's not true. We never had a cross word.' Mitchell also denied he was taunting police when he left a note with flowers for Jodi which quoted from Kurt Cobain's journals: 'The finest day I ever had was when tomorrow never came.' He said: 'The only reason I left it was because she loved that line. I wanted to be with Jodi and nobody else.' It was the first time in our interview that Mitchell spoke of any affection for Jodi. But then, to change the subject, he spent ten minutes talking about newly learned computer skills - just like any other teenage boy - before asking his mother for the keys to her 4x4 Land Rover.

Then, nonchalantly, he walked outside, started up the engine and drove at high speeds around nearby waste ground. It seemed, yet again, that Mitchell was playing at being an adult.

When he returned, he told his mother he was going to see his friend Laura and, since it was on my way, I offered to give Mitchell a lift.

In the car, he said very little about Jodi, continuing to talk about his computer course. When the car came to a standstill, he leaned over and gave me a hug before jumping out. Just four weeks later, he was arrested for Jodi's murder.

I truly believe Mitchell thought he could get away with it. As we parted, he couldn't resist having the final word. A last gesture, and his last chance to goad the police: 'I was never going to break down in public - I'm not that kind of bloke.

'They made a mistake and thought I was just a normal teenage
r.
'

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-127809851.html
 
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:39:13 PM
What a shock! Adverse comments/articles about a person who has been convicted of murder. Never have I ever seen that before - he must be guilty!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
I would be more surprised if they painted him in a different light.

Do what you advised Nine to do - go and dig up a case which was later exonerated and see what was said about that person prior to having the conviction overturned - I bet it will be more or less the same...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 03:43:44 PM
What a shock! Adverse comments/articles about a person who has been convicted of murder. Never have I ever seen that before - he must be guilty!

Published the day after Mitchell was found guilty.

Did the author of the article give a witness statement?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 03:45:26 PM
I would be more surprised if they painted him in a different light.

Do what you advised Nine to do - go and dig up a case which was later exonerated and see what was said about that person prior to having the conviction overturned - I bet it will be more or less the same...

i agree it would be the same with any similar case
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:45:32 PM
Published the day after Mitchell was found guilty.

Did the author of the article give a witness statement?

That does not surprise me either.

I do not know but perhaps they should have if they knew all that - nothing like a bit of sensationalism, which happens to sell newspapers.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 03:47:37 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=506.msg14694#msg14694
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 03:48:06 PM
And as previously stated we shouldnt trust anything written in a book so the newspapers must be even worse!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:48:12 PM
i agree it would be the same with any similar case

Certain people on this forum do not take into account that journalists do bend the truth and put their own spin on things to sell their story - it brings in a wage...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 03:49:23 PM
They should really seeing as a lot has been made about the actions of Mark Williams Thomas in great detail¬
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=506.msg14694#msg14694

She confided in family and friends AFTER Luke was arrested THEN the press - not to the police then no?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:56:53 PM
"He looked up to Marilyn Manson, who is strange himself. It was everything though, from the music to the drugs. He even urinated in bottles in his bedroom; who does that?"

There was no evidence "he looked up to Marilyn Manson" other than a DVD which happened to be free in a magazine bought AFTER Jodi's murder...

Everything she has said was available in newspapers.

Honestly the way people latch on to these things is quite sickening.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 03:57:22 PM
She confided in family and friends AFTER Luke was arrested THEN the press - not to the police then no?

Read and absorb the entire thread as opposed to cherry picking the bits that suit your agenda
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 03:58:37 PM
"He looked up to Marilyn Manson, who is strange himself. It was everything though, from the music to the drugs. He even urinated in bottles in his bedroom; who does that?"

There was no evidence "he looked up to Marilyn Manson" other than a DVD which happened to be free in a magazine bought AFTER Jodi's murder...

Everything she has said was available in newspapers.

Honestly the way people latch on to these things is quite sickening.

Why don't you contact the journalist and ask to see her notes?

And ask her if she made a witness statement
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 03:58:50 PM
Read and absorb the entire thread as opposed to cherry picking the bits that suit your agenda

I will pass thanks, the fact she quoted what was in newspapers was enough for me.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:00:19 PM
Why don't you contact the journalist and ask to see her notes?

And ask her if she made a witness statement

Why would I? I would prefer to see a police report prior to the conviction.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:02:56 PM
I will pass thanks, the fact she quoted what was in newspapers was enough for me.

Of course you will because you're not interested in facts

Post #5

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=506.msg14694#msg14694

"Here is the article from the Daily Mail dated 22nd January 2005. The story broke the previous evening.

Byline: GRACE MCLEAN
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:06:22 PM
I was sat in court once listening to a man give evidence about what he had seen from his bedroom window - he alleged he had witnessed things going on in a back lane. Quite believable until it was pointed out that the lane was entirely blocked from his view by a house which backed onto his house.

He just wanted to be part of the trial to be important -  cases like this bring all sorts of people out of the woodwork!
People make up stories to make themselves look/feel important.

I would certainly question why the press was privy to any information before the police were!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:07:04 PM
Why would I? I would prefer to see a police report prior to the conviction.

"But he added: "The bloke who said this is a fantasist. Another of his friends told police Jodi and I were arguing all the time. But that's not true. We never had a cross word
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:09:53 PM
"But he added: "The bloke who said this is a fantasist. Another of his friends told police Jodi and I were arguing all the time. But that's not true. We never had a cross word

And?

Why did she not give evidence against Luke at trial? It would have been the most damaging evidence they had to offer.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:10:43 PM
I was sat in court once listening to a man give evidence about what he had seen from his bedroom window - he alleged he had witnessed things going on in a back lane. Quite believable until it was pointed out that the lane was entirely blocked from his view by a house which backed onto his house.

He just wanted to be part of the trial to be important -  cases like this bring all sorts of people out of the woodwork!
People make up stories to make themselves look/feel important.

I would certainly question why the press was privy to any information before the police were!

Are you claiming this interview never took place? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=66.msg501197#msg501197
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:12:45 PM
Are you claiming this interview never took place?

Where have I claimed that the interview never took place? My point, which you seemed to have missed, is people make up stories to make themselves seem important.

My question was, why was the press privy to this information before the police were. Why was her witness statement not used during the trial? Because there wasn't one probably.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:12:57 PM
And?

Why did she not give evidence against Luke at trial? It would have been the most damaging evidence they had to offer.

Would be interesting to hear what Corrine Mitchell has to say about it.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:13:51 PM
Would be interesting to hear what Corrine Mitchell has to say about it.

Well if you're that interested why do you not ask her?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Well if you're that interested why do you not ask her?

I'm not the one claiming he's innocent!

"I interviewed Mitchell months before he had been charged with the murder of Jodi, and days after he had been questioned by detectives hunting for her killer.

Aged 15 at the time, the Luke Mitchell in front of me was an adult in everything but name. Chain smoking and dressed in baggy jeans and a dark-coloured T-shirt, he exuded confidence bordering on arrogance
.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:17:08 PM
I'm not the one claiming he's innocent!

"I interviewed Mitchell months before he had been charged with the murder of Jodi, and days after he had been questioned by detectives hunting for her killer.

Aged 15 at the time, the Luke Mitchell in front of me was an adult in everything but name. Chain smoking and dressed in baggy jeans and a dark-coloured T-shirt, he exuded confidence bordering on arrogance
.

No, but you are the one who is interested in what she has to say! I question the evidence, nothing more!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:19:02 PM
I'm not the one claiming he's innocent!

"I interviewed Mitchell months before he had been charged with the murder of Jodi, and days after he had been questioned by detectives hunting for her killer.

Aged 15 at the time, the Luke Mitchell in front of me was an adult in everything but name. Chain smoking and dressed in baggy jeans and a dark-coloured T-shirt, he exuded confidence bordering on arrogance
.

I have to say I have never come across an arrogant teenager who smoked - again, he must be guilty!  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:19:59 PM
When I put my baggy jeans on with my dark top im good to go...works every time
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:23:27 PM
I'm not the one claiming he's innocent!

"I interviewed Mitchell months before he had been charged with the murder of Jodi, and days after he had been questioned by detectives hunting for her killer.

Aged 15 at the time, the Luke Mitchell in front of me was an adult in everything but name.
.

I have to say I have never come across an arrogant teenager who smoked - again, he must be guilty!  @)(++(*

When I put my baggy jeans on with my dark top im good to go...works every time

If the pair of you stopped cherry picking and looked at the bigger picture you'd see you've been led on a merry dance
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:25:49 PM
If the pair of you stopped cherry picking and looked at the bigger picture you'd see you've been led on a merry dance

This is once again just your opinion - which I do not agree with!

Just because you were led on a "merry dance" the same cannot be said in every case!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:25:58 PM
might also be an idea to look at the Kevin Nunn case in relation to sperm etc
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:28:53 PM
If the pair of you stopped cherry picking and looked at the bigger picture you'd see you've been led on a merry dance

Not cherry picking...i wear dark clothes and love Metal. What does that make me.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:29:45 PM
There is no getting away from the fact that the evidence is weak - and other people who clearly had opportunity were not treated the same, they could not even give an answer as to what they were doing, yet this was all swept under the carpet.

The whole case is questionable!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:30:12 PM
Not cherry picking...i wear dark clothes and love Metal. What does that make me.

A suspect?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:30:59 PM
There is no getting away from the fact that the evidence is weak - and other people who clearly had opportunity were not treated the same, they could not even give an answer as to what they were doing, yet this was all swept under the carpet.

The whole case is questionable!


It is very questionable... whatever the outcome the actions regarding this case are very wrong!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:33:10 PM

It is very questionable... whatever the outcome the actions regarding this case are very wrong!

Stephanie thinks we are trying to convince her of his innocence but it is her trying to convince us of his guilt. I will not be moved by her links, I have read them all before - they take nothing away from the fact that other people were not treated with the same contempt as Luke or that they had questions to answer but refused!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:37:14 PM
That has been behind each of posts today.  The errors in the case are huge and it should never have happened. Its not just down to one person messing up either
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on November 08, 2018, 04:37:46 PM
Some readers might not know this but another prisoner in HMP Edinburgh confessed to his cell mate that he did it.  I met this guy and believe you me that even though he had learning difficulties, he was extremely worldly and was very capable of just about any mischief.  What was interesting is that some of the information he had was never in the public domain.  I let Donald Findlay know about it and the police supposedly interviewed him in Saughton while Mitchell was awaiting trial but nothing came of it as far as I am aware.

I also informed Corinne Mitchell directly about the claim several years ago and more recently Mitchell's new lawyers in Glasgow.  It just struck me at the time that this guy was cycling round all the bridle paths in the Dalkeith area with a rape kit so he was well placed as a suspect. He had form for such attacks and was convicted of the one below.

Notice how there is no mention of a bicycle in any press reports?

I have copied the article below as they tend to disappear over time.

(https://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/sitelogo/?r=2AJTxikH)

25th November 2004
Life sentence for rape kit sex attacker
   

A SEX attacker who carried a ''rape kit'' was jailed for life yesterday for hitting a woman on the head with a shovel and indecently assaulting her.

The High Court in Edinburgh heard that Allan Roberts, 42, had attended an offenders' scheme for stalking another woman. He completed the programme before his sex assault on a woman in Musselburgh, East Lothian, in May this year.

He told a psychologist he had violent fantasies about sex attacks on women and admitted walking around Haddington, East Lothian, with a ''rape kit'' - a mask, pillowcase and ties - hunting for a victim.

Lord Reed ruled that Roberts, of Davidson Place, Haddington, must serve at least two and a half years before he could apply for release on licence. He has also been put on the sex offenders' register.

www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/life-sentence-for-rape-kit-sex-attacker-1.69800
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:40:23 PM
Some readers might not know this but another prisoner in HMP Edinburgh confessed to his cell mate that he did it.  I met this guy and believe you me he was capable of anything.  What was interesting is that some of the information he had was never in the public domain.  I let Donald Findlay know about it and the police interviewed him in Saughton while Mitchell was awaiting trial but nothing came of it as far as I am aware.

I also informed Corinne directly about the claim several years ago and more recently Mitchell's new lawyers about two years ago.  It just struck me at the time that this guy was cycling round all the bridle paths in the Dalkeith area with a rape kit so he was well placed as a suspect. He had form for such attacks and was convicted of the one below.

Notice how there is no mention of a bicycle in any press reports?

www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/life-sentence-for-rape-kit-sex-attacker-1.69800

Very interesting John.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:42:35 PM
A suspect?

Damn lol you got me
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:43:33 PM
might also be an idea to look at the Kevin Nunn case in relation to sperm etc

Are you still in touch with his family Stephanie?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 04:50:44 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=584.0
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:54:20 PM
Are you still in touch with his family Stephanie?


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:55:31 PM
Are you still in touch with his family Stephanie?

What are the odds on she now thinks he is guilty?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 04:56:23 PM
What are the odds on she now thinks he is guilty?

previous makes me think you could well be right
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on November 08, 2018, 04:56:36 PM
Very interesting John.

I have often wondered if Robert's DNA was ever checked against that found at the murder scene but never identified.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
I have often wondered if Robert's DNA was ever checked against that found at the murder scene but never identified.

I doubt the police would have checked considering they were sure they had their man. Would be interesting to see what it would flag up, if anything.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on November 08, 2018, 05:04:17 PM
I doubt the police would have checked considering they were sure they had their man. Would be interesting to see what it would flag up, if anything.

I was concerned for those very reasons but surely Mitchell's lawyers would have insisted on it.  That is why I contacted them and Mitchell's mother directly.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 05:06:42 PM
lets hope with info like that John and the book highlighting Luke's case more people can come forward with something that could help him
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 05:07:23 PM
"CONCERNS have been expressed after it emerged a man who was convicted of raping a 13-year-old girl will be released from prison early without attending a rehabilitation programme.

Dalkeith man Robert Moffat, 41, has always maintained his innocence and has refused to enter a sex offenders’ programme in prison.

Following his conviction, the father-of-two appealed, stating the child had based her evidence on scenes screened in the soap opera Brookside. His claim was rejected by a judge.

News of the release was revealed in a petition to the Scottish Parliament in which Moffat also complained of the conditions in prison.

“My time in prison is almost over and I will be released within the next three months,” he wrote from prison in Dumfries.

A prison source confirmed Moffat was expected to be released on parole in the summer after serving only four of his original six-year sentence

It is also understood that Moffat was transferred from the sex offenders’ unit at Peterhead Prison without attending a rehabilitation programme as he constantly maintained his innocence.

The secretary of the Dalkeith and District Community Council, Ann Stewart-Kmitcha, said there would be concerns within the close-knit neighbourhood if he returned to the area.

“I am concerned that we have a lot of people in the community who are quite volatile,” she said.

She added that Moffat’s home area of Woodburn was subject to significant attention from groups attempting to combat antisocial behaviour. Kenny MacAskill, SNP shadow justice and home affairs spokesman, said public safety was paramount.

“Obviously, he [Moffat] would have been assessed by the parole board and we have to accept that,” he said.

“Serious sex offenders are few in number but highly dangerous and it is crucial they are properly monitored, not simply put on the sex offenders’ register.

“That means the Scottish Executive must ensure police and social work departments are properly resourced. Public safety demands it.”

Moffat, a delivery driver, was dragged from the dock by police officers after a jury unanimously convicted him in 2001.

During the trial, the jury heard Moffat’s victim had been baby-sitting while her mother went out with friends – including Moffat and his partner.

When they returned with a carry-out, she went to bed.

Thirteen-stone Moffat later pounced on the teenager as she slept in her room.

When the girl reported Moffat to police, she handed officers a cigarette lighter and keys which she said her 6ft 2in attacker had left in her bed.

A spokeswoman for charity Children First said: “It’s obviously crucial that sex offenders are released back into the community only when it is assessed as safe for that to happen – that they are not released only to offend again.

“The Scottish Executive’s recently announced review into the management of sex offenders into the community is welcome.”

At his appeal, Moffat, then of Woodburn Drive, Dalkeith, claimed the girl had fabricated her evidence after seeing the Channel 4 show Brookside, in which a girl was raped twice at a party.

In the programme, a character was attacked after being given the date rape drug Rohypnol. She was raped again by the same man after a short interval.

Moffat claimed that he went to the room to comfort the girl after she had a row with her mother.

https://theukdatabase.com/2012/08/09/robert-moffat-dalkeith-2/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 05:09:13 PM
I was concerned for those very reasons but surely Mitchell's lawyers would have insisted on it.  That is why I contacted them and Mitchell's mother directly.

I would like to think so. But lawyers do not always act how we would expect them too.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 05:34:23 PM
lets hope with info like that John and the book highlighting Luke's case more people can come forward with something that could help him

I would like to think so. But lawyers do not always act how we would expect them too.

Are you both confirming you believe JJ's murder was sexually motivated?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 05:36:14 PM
Are you both confirming you believe JJ's murder was sexually motivated?


crikey moses what a leap. I never mentioned any kind of offending
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 05:37:55 PM
Are you both confirming you believe JJ's murder was sexually motivated?

I am not confirming anything! Anything is possible!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 05:53:15 PM
No, but you are the one who is interested in what she has to say! I question the evidence, nothing more!

You do a whole lot more than question the evidence!

What's the story of Mr Kelly and the condom?



Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
I am not confirming anything! Anything is possible!

Yes it is- It's possible DNA found on JJ's body/and her clothing could have been transferred innocently from the wooded area where the attack took place.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
You do a whole lot more than question the evidence!

What's the story of Mr Kelly and the condom?

Do not assume what I do and do not do. I have pointed out that there is also circumstantial evidence against other people who were never suspects for some unknown reason - this is based on fact!

Why ask questions when you already know the answer!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 05:58:18 PM
Yes it is- It's possible DNA found on JJ's body/and her clothing could have been transferred innocently from the wooded area where the attack took place.

In your mind maybe - a sperm stain on the sleeve of the t-shirt was innocently transferred from the wooded area? Oh please!

Keep trying!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 05:59:43 PM
In your mind maybe - a sperm stain on the sleeve of the t-shirt was innocently transferred from the wooded area? Oh please!

Keep trying!

 *&^^& as if...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 06:00:59 PM
*&^^& as if...

Her theories have just become as ridiculous as those on the Tabak thread!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 06:01:49 PM
just when you think it couldnt get any worse. Nothing from Luke though
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 08, 2018, 06:03:23 PM
just when you think it couldnt get any worse. Nothing from Luke though

No because luckily for him the rain washed it all away and somehow managed to leave others behind, which was picked up from the wooded area  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 08, 2018, 06:04:28 PM
No because luckily for him the rain washed it all away and somehow managed to leave others behind, which was picked up from the wooded area  @)(++(*

I just said the very same thing to myself  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: John on November 08, 2018, 06:23:46 PM
The subject is Luke Mitchell. Please note that anything else will be deleted on sight.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 08, 2018, 08:45:40 PM
No because luckily for him the rain washed it all away and somehow managed to leave others behind, which was picked up from the wooded area  @)(++(*

In your mind maybe - a sperm stain on the sleeve of the t-shirt was innocently transferred from the wooded area? Oh please!

Keep trying!

"....complete DNA profiles can be obtained from laundered semen stains on school uniform-type clothing (T-shirts, trousers, tights, socks) with an eight-month lag time between semen deposition and laundering, despite multiple washes

https://www.bioportfolio.com/resources/pmarticle/1306189/Persistence-of-DNA-from-laundered-semen-stains-Implications-for-child-sex-trafficking.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 07:11:19 AM
And how does that explain All the dna found and that is was clearly visible!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 09, 2018, 08:51:29 AM
Repeatedly washed semen stains: Optimal screening and sampling strategies for DNA analysis.
"In many sexual assault cases, bedding and clothing are essential pieces of evidence that are screened for semen stains to gather DNA from the assailant. In some cases, these items have been washed before being seized and sent to the forensic lab. However, few data exist on the optimal methods for detecting and sampling semen stains on washed fabrics. In this paper, we used semen stains washed up to six times to evaluate the efficiency of commonly used screening methods for the detection of semen: alternate light source (ALS), acid phosphatase (AP), prostate specific antigen (PSA) and microscopy (sperm Hy-Liter, SHL). We also assessed different washing conditions (detergents, washing machines, addition of bleach) and sampling methods (cutting and swabbing). The results show that some semen stain detection strategies, such as ALS, PSA, and SHL, are effective even when the item was washed multiple times. We also show that a complete genetic profile could be obtained from semen stains washed six times. Based on these findings, we present different strategies for the detection and sampling of semen stains depending on the circumstances of the case.
https://www.bioportfolio.com/resources/pmarticle/2182455/Repeatedly-washed-semen-stains-Optimal-screening-and-sampling-strategies-for-DNA-analysis.html
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 09:05:20 AM
All very well but the stain(s) would not be there and visible after washing no matter what the link says!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 09, 2018, 09:34:28 AM
All very well but the stain(s) would not be there and visible after washing no matter what the link says!

I have to say I am surprised, but it does look like a reputable link.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 09:45:44 AM
I have to say I am surprised, but it does look like a reputable link.

That may be so mrswah but you have to remember that in 2003 the science was simply not available. This is from many years later..things move on
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 09, 2018, 09:57:03 AM
That may be so mrswah but you have to remember that in 2003 the science was simply not available. This is from many years later..things move on

Ah, I see !  Fair enough.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 10:08:18 AM
sorry now ive read that again, it sounded like i was being rude to you. Just how the words came out.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 09, 2018, 10:34:14 AM
Sperm heads can survive a wash cycle and DNA can be extracted so innocent transfer can occur. Sandra Lean has explained this in her book so she is not trying to hide these facts.

Testing for innocent transfer in this way was not available back in 2003 so without this being tested it is just a theory, although plausible. However it was not just the sister's boyfriends sperm which was found on the t-shirt, there was multiple sperm found which was not attributed to anyone – not sure how this can be explained away. Not forgetting there was no DNA belonging to Luke.

Also what is clearly explained through evidence is that there were multiple black t-shirts available for Jodi to wear. Why would she wear one with visible staining on it, when other, identical t-shirts were available?

Now that Luke's case is being re-investigated perhaps all this will be explained once and for all, but without the testing having been done at this stage whatever is said is just theory.

This still does not give an explanation for the 2 people who were present at the crime scene at the exact time the murder was supposed to be taking place.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 10:37:02 AM
Thanks for the clear explanation justsaying,  makes it so much easier to comprehend
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 09, 2018, 11:22:15 AM
sorry now ive read that again, it sounded like i was being rude to you. Just how the words came out.

What size were the semen stains?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 09, 2018, 11:48:47 AM
sorry now ive read that again, it sounded like i was being rude to you. Just how the words came out.


No, didn't think you were being rude!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 09, 2018, 03:26:52 PM
The lies bullying and mistreatment in this case are beyond shocking!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 02:54:38 PM
Do not assume what I do and do not do. I have pointed out that there is also circumstantial evidence against other people who were never suspects for some unknown reason - this is based on fact!

Why ask questions when you already know the answer!

How many girlfriends did Mitchell have? Kimberly, Gemma; were there any more?


And what is the story on the following?

"The best Mitchell could offer as an explanation was that, once, he had missed the ladders while trying to climb down half asleep from his cabin bed in the middle of the night and fell and banged his face and woke up everyone else in the house. From then on, instead of getting up to go to the toilet, he used a bottle. He seemed not to have emptied the bottle in the morning, but to have built up a collection.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10013/the-warped-mind-of-a-killer-drugs-and-satanism
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
How many girlfriends did Mitchell have? Kimberly, Gemma; were there any more?


And what is the story on the following?

"The best Mitchell could offer as an explanation was that, once, he had missed the ladders while trying to climb down half asleep from his cabin bed in the middle of the night and fell and banged his face and woke up everyone else in the house. From then on, instead of getting up to go to the toilet, he used a bottle. He seemed not to have emptied the bottle in the morning, but to have built up a collection.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10013/the-warped-mind-of-a-killer-drugs-and-satanism


a little holiday romance at 13 not exactly a girlfriend. They lived miles away from each other!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 04:43:37 PM
How many girlfriends did Mitchell have? Kimberly, Gemma; were there any more?


And what is the story on the following?

"The best Mitchell could offer as an explanation was that, once, he had missed the ladders while trying to climb down half asleep from his cabin bed in the middle of the night and fell and banged his face and woke up everyone else in the house. From then on, instead of getting up to go to the toilet, he used a bottle. He seemed not to have emptied the bottle in the morning, but to have built up a collection.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10013/the-warped-mind-of-a-killer-drugs-and-satanism

So he may have after Jodi was killed. It has also been linked the trauma of a young lad finding a body. Who knows how anyone would react. He was a child! however the Police chose to deal with him right from the start does not take that fact away!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:22:55 PM

a little holiday romance at 13 not exactly a girlfriend. They lived miles away from each other!

To whom do you refer; Kimberly or Gemma?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:24:45 PM
neither make any difference to the murder of Jodi or the shocking way in which Luke and his family were treated

Gemma was after Jodi was murdered as you know already.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:31:27 PM


Gemma was after Jodi was murdered as you know already.

Do not assume what I do and do not do.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:33:26 PM
neither make any difference to the murder of Jodi or the shocking way in which Luke and his family were treated

Gemma was after Jodi was murdered as you know already.

Is Gemma who the Mitchell's took to JJ's graveside?

And do you think they made a mistake speaking to sky news and not respecting the wishes of the Jones family?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:34:25 PM
So he may have after Jodi was killed. It has also been linked the trauma of a young lad finding a body. Who knows how anyone would react. He was a child! however the Police chose to deal with him right from the start does not take that fact away!

What has been linked to trauma?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:34:55 PM
Is Gemma who the Mitchell's took to JJ's graveside?

And do you think they made a mistake speaking to sky news and not respecting the wishes of the Jones family?

How could they possibly know what would happen? After the treatment they all received its quite amazing they managed to function at all never mind the way YOU seem to expect they should
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:35:43 PM
neither make any difference to the murder of Jodi

Why not?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:35:58 PM


Excuse me.... you asked about Gemma which clearly indicated YOU know about her. I didnt mention her did i?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:47:58 PM
Is Gemma who the Mitchell's took to JJ's graveside?

And do you think they made a mistake speaking to sky news and not respecting the wishes of the Jones family?

Seeing as you know so much how come you dont know the identity of the person at the graveside?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:56:07 PM

a little holiday romance at 13 not exactly a girlfriend. They lived miles away from each other!

18) he had lied to the police about the last time he had contacted Kimberley Thomson, whom he was due to meet shortly after the murder, and had not told the deceased about her (a possible source of conflict between him and the deceased);
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 05:57:17 PM
Seeing as you know so much how come you dont know the identity of the person at the graveside?

Why would I know?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:58:04 PM
Due to his lack of maturity.... he was 14. Children make mistakes. He wasnt actually hiding anything was he? He hadnt met up with her - they lived miles away from each other.

Really strange what you focus on!!!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 05:58:54 PM
Why would I know?

You seem to put yourself up as such an expert on everyone and their behavior or at least how you think they should behave
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 06:00:48 PM
Due to his lack of maturity.... he was 14. Children make mistakes. He wasnt actually hiding anything was he? He hadnt met up with her - they lived miles away from each other.

Really strange what you focus on!!!

Are you suggesting Gemma was the girl the Mitchell's were photographed with at JJ's graveside?

All I know about Gemma is this https://www.scotsman.com/news/girlfriend-of-jodi-s-killer-speaks-of-her-love-for-him-1-1056174
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:01:58 PM
Are you suggesting Gemma was the girl the Mitchell's were photographed with at JJ's graveside?

All I know about Gemma is this https://www.scotsman.com/news/girlfriend-of-jodi-s-killer-speaks-of-her-love-for-him-1-1056174

I am clearly NOT suggesting any such thing. It was you who mentioned her and the graveside
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 06:05:02 PM
Due to his lack of maturity.... he was 14. Children make mistakes. He wasnt actually hiding anything was he? He hadnt met up with her - they lived miles away from each other.

Really strange what you focus on!!!

His mother was not 14 years old. Do you think she made a mistake purchasing a knife for her son when she did?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 06:07:49 PM
I am clearly NOT suggesting any such thing. It was you who mentioned her and the graveside

Was that another girlfriend then?

Is there a reason you are avoiding answering the question?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
Was that another girlfriend then?

You can imagine and invent girlfriends as much as you like if it makes you feel better. I think you will find school kids generally have friends of both sexes...even adults manage it. Well some adults anyway
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:13:34 PM
Wrong about what; asking a question?

Instead of posting BS why don't you answer my questions.

Or is is because you can't answer my questions you are attempting to deflect with the BS?

Oh dear... keep up Stephanie. You asked me about Gemma then try and make out it was my doing! You mentioned her, I never said who was  at the graveside. You are getting mixed up.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 06:14:59 PM
You can imagine and invent girlfriends as much as you like if it makes you feel better. I think you will find school kids generally have friends of both sexes...even adults manage it. Well some adults anyway

18) he had lied to the police about the last time he had contacted Kimberley Thomson, whom he was due to meet shortly after the murder, and had not told the deceased about her (a possible source of conflict between him and the deceased);
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:15:32 PM
Wrong about what; asking a question?

Instead of posting BS why don't you answer my questions.

Or is is because you can't answer my questions you are attempting to deflect with the BS?


Mentioned BS twice on one post . Is that the level you have to sink to? I am NOT here to answer YOUR questions. Not sure who you think you are but you are wrong. I havent posted any BS as you put it

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:22:56 PM
Do quit gaslighting!

instead of throwing words at me that have no relevance try reading your own posts back. No one is gas lighting. You are obsessed with links mental health and wrong doing.

Lets make this simple and clear... you mentioned girlfriends You mentioned Gemma and you mentioned the graveside visits. I didnt and not once did I imply who visited the graveside. You either think you know and are wrong or you are annoyed that you dont know. Either way, it was all down to YOU
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:26:27 PM
Do quit gaslighting!


very very interesting choice of words
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 10, 2018, 06:27:38 PM
I received my copy of Dr Lean's book this morning "Innocents Betrayed". It is quite engrossing so far, and very detailed. The introduction itself, is very thought provoking
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:29:09 PM
I received my copy of Dr Lean's book this morning "Innocents Betrayed". It is quite engrossing so far, and very detailed. The introduction itself, is very thought provoking

It is all that and more. Its heartbreaking and by the end you cant help being truly affected by it  8)><(
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 10, 2018, 06:34:46 PM
The subject is Luke Mitchell. Please note that anything else will be deleted on sight.

 *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 10, 2018, 06:36:24 PM
I only intended reading a few pages this afternoon, ended up reading the entire introduction. I can see it's going to be one of those books you just can't put down, and end up staying awake in bed finishing the next chapter.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:36:36 PM
*&^^&

While you are looking at your last post, remember who has been calling names and accusing people of things. That too is against the rules. They apply to you too
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Eleanor on November 10, 2018, 06:41:08 PM

Can we have less of the insults, if you please.. This is not a request.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 06:52:34 PM
The main part of this case isnt who Luke chatted to on the phone or did the year before but how he could be treated in such an appalling manner right from the start

Total interrogation, devious Family Liaison Officer who tried her best to plant thoughts in people's minds and suggest things that werent true. The treatment of Luke Shane and Corrine was shocking but it was allowed to continue the whole way through

All the faults in finding/keeping evidence was with only one thought in their minds... Luke was guilty right from the moment he found Jodi's body. Anything else was their attempt to make  the evidence fit their view

I wonder how the case would have gone if they werent so quick to decide who was guilty and who wasnt
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 10, 2018, 06:59:52 PM
The Police are supposed to remain objective throughout. They clearly decided that they would pursue Luke Mitchell from the start, just like the village/town gossips had as described in Dr Lean's introduction to her investigative book.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 07:08:06 PM
The Police are supposed to remain objective throughout. They clearly decided that they would pursue Luke Mitchell from the start, just like the village/town gossips had as described in Dr Lean's introduction to her investigative book.

Taking into account that he was a child too. Thinking of him being terrorised by 3 Policeman at such a young age. They didnt listen to a word he was saying, he didnt have the assistance of a Solicitor and it makes you wonder what the Appropriate Adult (Social Services) was doing/thinking while all this was going on

I have done training for an Appropriate Adult and this is so far removed. I know the system varies between England and Scotland but even so
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
I only intended reading a few pages this afternoon, ended up reading the entire introduction. I can see it's going to be one of those books you just can't put down, and end up staying awake in bed finishing the next chapter.

You are right---I can't put it down either !  I am appalled by what I have read so far.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 10, 2018, 07:23:07 PM
*&^^&


We are perfectly on topic------"Innocents Betrayed" is about the Luke Mitchell case!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 07:26:06 PM
You are right---I can't put it down either !  I am appalled by what I have read so far.

Mrswah be prepared ... the more you read the more it hurts.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:13:39 PM
The suggestion Luke killed Jodi because he was two-timing her is outrageous - he was a 14 year old child FGS - not a married man with everything to lose! Must be so difficult growing up being so perfect, honestly some people need to read what they are saying before they hit the post button  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:16:17 PM
I only intended reading a few pages this afternoon, ended up reading the entire introduction. I can see it's going to be one of those books you just can't put down, and end up staying awake in bed finishing the next chapter.

It is definitely one of those books that is a page turner, very fact specific too!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:22:32 PM
Taking into account that he was a child too. Thinking of him being terrorised by 3 Policeman at such a young age. They didnt listen to a word he was saying, he didnt have the assistance of a Solicitor and it makes you wonder what the Appropriate Adult (Social Services) was doing/thinking while all this was going on

I have done training for an Appropriate Adult and this is so far removed. I know the system varies between England and Scotland but even so

The SCCRC verified the boys rights were breached yet still refused to refer his case to appeal - I don't think it would be the same if it was the CCRC looking at it here in England - those interviews were disgusting and heart-breaking to read.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 10, 2018, 09:23:55 PM
I have long been convinced it was an adult male who killed JJ and not a teenage boy. Fortunately, people like Dr Lean have the integrity/commitment and also the ability to articulate the entire sequence of events. It also demonstrates just how many innocent people must have been subjected to these MOJ's which we will never know about as they did not have a Dr Lean bringing their case into the vital public domain.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:28:54 PM
I have long been convinced it was an adult male who killed JJ and not a teenage boy. Fortunately, people like Dr Lean have the integrity/commitment and also the ability to articulate the entire sequence of events. It also demonstrates just how many innocent people must have been subjected to these MOJ's which we will never know about as they did not have a Dr Lean bringing their case into the vital public domain.

The FBI did a profile on the killer, would love to see it! It has not been released fully but I bet they more or less said the same.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 09:35:22 PM
That would definitely make an interesting read
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:44:47 PM
That would definitely make an interesting read

I agree, that is probably the reason why it has not been made fully available to the public.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 10, 2018, 09:45:20 PM
The FBI Academy in Quanticio are the best in the world. I wonder who intervened to silence their report/verdict being published.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:46:17 PM
The FBI Academy in Quanticio are the best in the world. I wonder who intervened to silence their report/verdict being published.

I would suggest the very people who visited them for the profile.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 09:57:53 PM
So he may have after Jodi was killed. It has also been linked the trauma of a young lad finding a body. Who knows how anyone would react. He was a child! however the Police chose to deal with him right from the start does not take that fact away!

I agree Jixy - there was no evidence of him peeing in bottles before he found the body of his murdered girlfriend, I think this supports a reaction to trauma. We do not know which way we would react, even as adults. He needed help and support and was failed in more ways than one.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 10, 2018, 10:02:50 PM
And as trauma goes that is pretty huge. A child discovering a body with such injuries. It's a reaction to that not an explanation to his character
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 10, 2018, 10:05:59 PM
And as trauma goes that is pretty huge. A child discovering a body with such injuries. It's a reaction to that not an explanation to his character


8((()*/
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Brandy on November 11, 2018, 12:58:04 PM

When Dr Lean reported being threatened to the Police Scotland they were very dismissive. They smugly claimed no officers were available to take a statement in addition to criticising her for becoming involved in the case. It is the duty of the Police to prevent and detect crime. A crime was reported. They conveniently opted not to pursue Dr Lean's report. It seems they have a vested interest to protect. What I don't quite gather is why Dr Lean did not take it further, as she ought to have.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 12, 2018, 09:46:27 AM
So many things about this case are very wrong. If a child can be treated in such a terrible way then it can only be expected that it could happen to adults too

Not sure I have ever heard anything as shocking as the interrogation of Luke. He was begging for help, he was ignored. They wouldnt even listen
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Angelo222 on November 12, 2018, 10:14:35 AM
So many things about this case are very wrong. If a child can be treated in such a terrible way then it can only be expected that it could happen to adults too

Not sure I have ever heard anything as shocking as the interrogation of Luke. He was begging for help, he was ignored. They wouldnt even listen

I agree completely with you but it doesn't make him innocent.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 12, 2018, 10:16:36 AM
I agree completely with you but it doesn't make him innocent.

I understand your point Angelo222 but the bad treatment lead the Police to not investigate anyone else look for evidence or even log what they had correctly. He never stood a chance
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 12, 2018, 04:01:20 PM
I agree completely with you but it doesn't make him innocent.

I agree it does not prove innocence - but it does prove the level they stooped too to gather evidence in a case which was evidentially weak.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 12, 2018, 09:00:00 PM
https://www.acast.com/theywalkamongus/season2-episode13

https://www.acast.com/theywalkamongus/season2-episode14

"....He was not fazed or shocked or panicking. I have never seen someone so cool
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:35:37 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma

“In time, emotional exhaustion may set in, leading to distraction, and clear thinking may be difficult or impossible. Emotional detachment, as well as dissociation or "numbing out" can frequently occur. Dissociating from the painful emotion includes numbing all emotion, and the person may seem emotionally flat, preoccupied, distant, or cold.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment

“Emotional detachment often arises from psychological trauma in early years as well as throughout adulthood, and is a component in many anxiety and stress disorders. The person, while physically present, moves elsewhere in the mind, and in a sense is "not entirely present", making them sometimes appear preoccupied.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29

“In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress”


Surprised you do not know all this what with your expertise!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 10:29:26 AM
How many girlfriends did Mitchell have? Kimberly, Gemma; were there any more?


And what is the story on the following?

"The best Mitchell could offer as an explanation was that, once, he had missed the ladders while trying to climb down half asleep from his cabin bed in the middle of the night and fell and banged his face and woke up everyone else in the house. From then on, instead of getting up to go to the toilet, he used a bottle. He seemed not to have emptied the bottle in the morning, but to have built up a collection.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10013/the-warped-mind-of-a-killer-drugs-and-satanism

Is Gemma who the Mitchell's took to JJ's graveside?

And do you think they made a mistake speaking to sky news and not respecting the wishes of the Jones family?

"Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis.

Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim.

One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones.

Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny.

Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones.

Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime."
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 10:38:40 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma

“In time, emotional exhaustion may set in, leading to distraction, and clear thinking may be difficult or impossible. Emotional detachment, as well as dissociation or "numbing out" can frequently occur. Dissociating from the painful emotion includes numbing all emotion, and the person may seem emotionally flat, preoccupied, distant, or cold.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment

“Emotional detachment often arises from psychological trauma in early years as well as throughout adulthood, and is a component in many anxiety and stress disorders. The person, while physically present, moves elsewhere in the mind, and in a sense is "not entirely present", making them sometimes appear preoccupied.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29

“In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress”


Surprised you do not know all this what with your expertise!

https://www.acast.com/theywalkamongus/season2-episode14

"....He was not fazed or shocked or panicking. I have never seen someone so cool
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 10:44:58 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_trauma

“In time, emotional exhaustion may set in, leading to distraction, and clear thinking may be difficult or impossible. Emotional detachment, as well as dissociation or "numbing out" can frequently occur. Dissociating from the painful emotion includes numbing all emotion, and the person may seem emotionally flat, preoccupied, distant, or cold.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment

“Emotional detachment often arises from psychological trauma in early years as well as throughout adulthood, and is a component in many anxiety and stress disorders. The person, while physically present, moves elsewhere in the mind, and in a sense is "not entirely present", making them sometimes appear preoccupied.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_%28psychology%29

“In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress”


Surprised you do not know all this what with your expertise!

Luke Mitchell stated:
"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 10:52:22 AM
"Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis.

Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim.

One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones.

Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny.

Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones.

Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime."

So Shane had a collection of knives whereas Luke had a fascination - can you see the prejudice comparison?

There is nothing conclusive in this article, just a lot of maybe's and speculation. But of course they have to justify the conviction, because the evidence presented in court certainly does not!

Why do people think it is so sinister to have a knife collection? Read up on it, it is a hobby in which a lot of people partake! I am not interested in sensationalised news reports!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 10:55:21 AM
Luke Mitchell stated:
"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?

I would like to see what was said in its full context - not cherry-picked. Define violent, a few fights in school? Does this not happen in every school? And, he cut himself? Tragically, so do a lot of young people.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
"Just because I have chosen to follow the teachings of Satan doesn't mean I need psychiatric help."

He also admitted stubbing out cigarettes on his hand as a "party trick" and had scratched the numbers 666 on his upper-right forearm with a compass

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4187007.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
And what his relationship was like with his mother

"When Mrs Mitchell went into the witness box during the trial, despite repeated suggestions from the prosecution that she had lied, she showed no sign of the short fuse Luke told a psychiatrist he had inherited from his mother.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1481697/Lies-to-protect-a-son.html

He's already been proved guilty in a court of law and my perceptions are based on his quite apparent criminal mind and conduct, amongst a wealth of other relevant factors.

There's no getting away from the fact Luke Mitchell showed a dark side to his character at a young age regardless of how some people may have dismissed or minimised them over the years.

At 14 years old, we know he was self medicating on large quantites of illegal drugs from his own admission for starters. Was this in order to attempt to suppress his feelings and dark sadistic fantasies?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
"Just because I have chosen to follow the teachings of Satan doesn't mean I need psychiatric help."

He also admitted stubbing out cigarettes on his hand as a "party trick" and had scratched the numbers 666 on his upper-right forearm with a compass

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4187007.stm

Perhaps you should read up on how many people do follow the church of Satan - But again this could all be sensationalised, it is in the news after all...

Keep trying Stephanie - you may one day find some HARD evidence to prove guilt...

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:07:01 AM
Perhaps you should read up on how many people do follow the church of Satan - But again this could all be sensationalised, it is in the news after all...

Keep trying Stephanie - you may one day find some HARD evidence to prove guilt...

We aren't discussing ALL people!

ALL people aren't serving life sentences for the murder of JJ!

It would be interesting to learn what Luke Mitchell's supporters understanding and interpretations are of the criminal spin. And the impact of his mothers parenting style and the effect it had on him; which appears to have been both "uninvolved" and "permissive?"

Do Luke Mitchell supporters really believe Craig Dobbie hadn't evaluated Luke Mitchell's psychology?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/police-mitchell-holiday-plan-led-to-jodi-s-murder-1-1401837

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/year-old-murdered-in-dalkeith-itn-scotland-midlothian-news-footage/682496148
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:11:02 AM
We aren't discussing ALL people!

ALL people aren't serving life sentences for the murder of JJ!

No! But you put it out there like he is the only person in the world to be a little bit different - he is not!

I do not care if he was convicted in a court of law - plenty of people have been exonerated after being convicted. You just repeat the same things over and over. Perhaps you could find something new to argue? Oh sorry I forgot, what allegedly proves guilt is very minimal in this case!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
As a further note how could Dobbie "evaluate" Luke's psychology? LIKE YOU he is NOT a psychologist!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:27:19 AM
It would be interesting to learn what Luke Mitchell's supporters understanding and interpretations are of the criminal spin. And the impact of his mothers parenting style and the effect it had on him; which appears to have been both "uninvolved" and "permissive?"
-footage/682496148

Luke Mitchell stated:
"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4187007.stm
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:32:35 AM
You claim you do not rely on hearsay but you sure do when it comes to the relationship between Luke and his mother  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:39:09 AM
As a further note how could Dobbie "evaluate" Luke's psychology? LIKE YOU he is NOT a psychologist!

According to Richard Hoskins, Craig Dobbie consulted with him in order to help him understand why Luke Mitchell murdered JJ.

"Whilst working at Bath Spa University, Richard Hoskins was called upon by the Metropolitan Police Service to work as an expert witness in the Torso in the Thames case.[2] He has since been called as an expert witness in over a hundred criminal cases, including numerous high-profile murders, such as those of Victoria Climbié,[4] Jodi Jones and the Eric Bikubi and Magalie Bamu case.[5][6][7][8] Hoskins has been called upon to provide commentary on these cases and the related field by numerous press organisations.[9][10][11][12][13] He is an expert on African religions.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] He is the only registered multi-cultural expert on the UK national police SOCA database.[2][21][22][23] https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Richard_Hoskins.html

He claims to have been profoundly affected by the JJ's case
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DyyAmjhB-koC&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=richard+hoskins+jodi+jones+murder&source=bl&ots=hsAyk5XLGi&sig=Hvf223lApZ2GelCI_ezF_sbyWaw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA6ZSLw87dAhVBCuwKHVG1DWkQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=richard%20hoskins%20jodi%20jones%20murder&f=false
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:40:41 AM
He did not evaluate Luke did he? He made up his mind on the nature of the crime, not through evaluating Luke!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:42:37 AM
Perhaps you should read up on how many people do follow the church of Satan - But again this could all be sensationalised, it is in the news after all...

Keep trying Stephanie - you may one day find some HARD evidence to prove guilt...

Perhaps you should read up on the criminal spin and focus on Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:46:04 AM
Perhaps you should read up on the criminal spin and focus on Luke Mitchell's behaviour!

Since when does someone's behaviour conclusively prove guilt?

I would rather focus on direct evidence, or lack of it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
Since when does someone's behaviour conclusively prove guilt?

I would rather focus on direct evidence, or lack of it!

Perhaps you should read up on the criminal spin and focus on Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition!

Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition are relevant
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:50:46 AM
Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition are relevant

Perhaps to you, maybe! His emotions, or lack of them, could have been the result of trauma - which has been pointed out!

Most of what you read in the news was sensationalised and not even used in court as evidence!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:54:05 AM
The SCCRC verified the boys rights were breached yet still refused to refer his case to appeal - I don't think it would be the same if it was the CCRC looking at it here in England - those interviews were disgusting and heart-breaking to read.

Why did they refuse to refer his case?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:55:21 AM
Why did they refuse to refer his case?

You tell me! As I have pointed out a breach like that in England would have resulted in a referral!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:56:15 AM
Perhaps to you, maybe! His emotions, or lack of them, could have been the result of trauma - which has been pointed out!

Most of what you read in the news was sensationalised and not even used in court as evidence!

Why was he referred to a psychiatrist before JJ's murder?

And why did he refuse help?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 11:57:28 AM
Perhaps to you, maybe! His emotions, or lack of them, could have been the result of trauma - which has been pointed out!

Most of what you read in the news was sensationalised and not even used in court as evidence!

What were Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition like prior to the murder?

What help/guidance did his parents provide for him; if any?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 11:58:10 AM
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[9] The appellant has no previous convictions. His parents separated when he was 11 years old. He lived with his mother and his older brother, and spent time with his father at weekends. The reports available to the trial judge suggested that the appellant had a fairly comfortable home life, and had hobbies such as horse-riding and motorcycling. Despite their separation, both parents appear to have taken part in his upbringing. They were united in disapproving of his use of cannabis.


Sounds all completely normal to me!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:05:32 PM
[12] The defence submitted a report by a consultant forensic clinical psychiatrist who concluded that the appellant was not suffering from mental disorder within the meaning of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. There was no evidence of severe emotional maladjustment or childhood abuse or of significant abnormality of mind at the time of the murder.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:13:00 PM


I would rather focus on direct evidence, or lack of it!

Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during trial and why does it appear he's never supported his brothers claims publicly in all these years?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:14:39 PM
[12] The defence submitted a report by a consultant forensic clinical psychiatrist who concluded that the appellant was not suffering from mental disorder within the meaning of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. There was no evidence of severe emotional maladjustment or childhood abuse or of significant abnormality of mind at the time of the murder.

No trauma then
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:18:20 PM
No trauma then

Maybe they didn't evaluate him for post-trauma. And that is the only thing you can come up with after everything you have alleged  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:19:54 PM
Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during trial and why does it appear he's never supported his brothers claims publicly in all these years?

Why do you keep repeating questions when they have already been answered? There was a whole discussion on this the other day!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:29:23 PM
Perhaps to you, maybe! His emotions, or lack of them, could have been the result of trauma - which has been pointed out!

Most of what you read in the news was sensationalised and not even used in court as evidence!

Or an indication of psychopathy
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:33:04 PM
Why do you keep repeating questions when they have already been answered? There was a whole discussion on this the other day!

What's the answer then?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:33:48 PM
Or an indication of psychopathy

Says Doctor Stephanie, who totally ignores the psychology evaluation saying that he did not have such issues!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What's the answer then?

Go back and read them so you can completely ignore them again!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:43:07 PM
I agree Jixy - there was no evidence of him peeing in bottles before he found the body of his murdered girlfriend, I think this supports a reaction to trauma. We do not know which way we would react, even as adults. He needed help and support and was failed in more ways than one.

What size were the bottles seized by police and how long do you think it took LM to fill?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:46:06 PM
What size were the bottles seized by police and how long do you think it took LM to fill?

 @)(++(*

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:48:20 PM
"Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis.

Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim.

One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones.

Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny.

Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones.

Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime."

Not actually true though is it seeing as the holiday was cancelled and Luke had no means to plan/see her whatsoever
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:50:41 PM
We aren't discussing ALL people!

ALL people aren't serving life sentences for the murder of JJ!

You always use that as an excuse when points are put to you! but you can post as many general links to 100s of situations, personality issues murders and many other topics  that you like but they are all general too. That is always ok isnt it?  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:51:30 PM
Not actually true though is it seeing as the holiday was cancelled and Luke had no means to plan/see her whatsoever

If ifs and ands were pots and pans  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:51:44 PM


What was the first reaction that was noted when he first discovered Jodi? doesnt match that description but easy to lose that along the way like most of the evidence!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:52:45 PM
As a further note how could Dobbie "evaluate" Luke's psychology? LIKE YOU he is NOT a psychologist!

No and he wasnt very good at his job was he?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
Perhaps you should read up on the criminal spin and focus on Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition!


 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 12:54:49 PM
@)(++(*

What size were the bottles seized by police and how long do you think it took LM to fill?

They weren't linked to trauma either were they
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:56:11 PM
Luke Mitchell's behaviour, emotions and cognition are relevant

Like all the emotion he displayed during his interrogation where they tried to crack him. Over and over he said he didnt kill Jodi over and over the Police lied and said he wasnt under suspicion of  murder so they could abuse him further.

What about their behaviour and emotions. Trained Police Officers that couldnt even keep hold of their temper! what do you make of them?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:57:33 PM
Why didn't Shane Mitchell corroborate his brothers alibi during trial and why does it appear he's never supported his brothers claims publicly in all these years?

Are you aware of the treatment Shane suffered at the hands of the Police?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:57:45 PM
They weren't linked to trauma either were they

They probably would have been had he been evaluated for PTSD - it is a classic sign of trauma, but you just like to look at the most sinister reasons  %56&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 12:58:44 PM
What size were the bottles seized by police and how long do you think it took LM to fill?

why are you obsessed with them?  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 12:59:50 PM
Like all the emotion he displayed during his interrogation where they tried to crack him. Over and over he said he didnt kill Jodi over and over the Police lied and said he wasnt under suspicion of  murder so they could abuse him further.

What about their behaviour and emotions. Trained Police Officers that couldnt even keep hold of their temper! what do you make of them?

She is probably ok with this as she only likes to make unfounded allegations against Luke, his mother and his brother - allegations which have been proven wrong within the appeal judgment. He was of sound mind and his home life was normal!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:01:28 PM
She is probably ok with this as she only likes to make unfounded allegations against Luke, his mother and his brother - allegations which have been proven wrong within the appeal judgment. He was of sound mind and his home life was normal!


spot on
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:07:08 PM
If ifs and ands were pots and pans  @)(++(*

 @)(++(* the images in my mind! might need a long soak in the bath now
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:08:03 PM
@)(++(* the images in my mind! might need a long soak in the bath now

Enjoy, if you can fit in!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:08:57 PM
Enjoy, if you can fit in!

haha will try my best
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:11:30 PM
@)(++(* the images in my mind! might need a long soak in the bath now

Its awful what trauma/depression can do to a person be they an adult or child!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:13:39 PM
"Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis.

Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim.

One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones.

Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny.

Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones.

Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime."

The last sentence is just  a snippet of how Luke was treated from the start . Something nowhere near a fact being stated and treated as such to put a whole new slant on the situation.  Potential? there was never any potential of Jodi finding that out because it isnt real.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:18:47 PM
Its awful what trauma/depression can do to a person be they an adult or child!

That is the thing, you just never know how someone could or would react. People are different not to be judged purely by linked sourced on Google
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 01:24:47 PM
Are you aware of the treatment Shane suffered at the hands of the Police?

During his brothers murder trial, Shane was showed CS photos of JJ after a short recess he was asked if Luke was in the house whilst he was upstairs on his computer.

What was his reply to the court?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:26:22 PM
That is the thing, you just never know how someone could or would react. People are different not to be judged purely by linked sourced on Google

We know he reacted the same as others when Jodi's body was found but somewhere along the lines peoples statements were changed - probably a result of people being brainwashed by police when they were at their most vulnerable.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 01:27:02 PM
This is what Corrine Mitchell claimed some years later:

"When I got home I went directly to the kitchen where I was confronted by Luke brandishing the broccoli! He asked if it should be that colour (it was turning yellowy) and I said no......bin the broccoli! He decided on beans instead...as it was a Monday and I do my weekly shop on a Tuesday there wasn't any other fresh vegetables left.

Both Luke and I served up. I told Luke to shout Shane down as he was upstairs. Shane came down, complained to Luke he had burnt the pie, I told him it could be scraped off, it wasn't that bad. Shane returned upstairs armed with his dinner. Luke ate his in front of the TV and I decided to have mine on the patio as I had been cooped up in my office all day and not seen any sun.

After eating dinner I was preparing to do the dishes when Luke came into the kitchen and said that that was him off. I joked with him and said.....don't tell me ...your seeing Jodi....as by this time Jodi had become more favourable than the cadets. I also suggested to him that he introduced his clothes to the washing machine as he had worn them for a couple of days. I got the usual teenage response......Och mum!.....and "this is Jodi’s favourite t-shirt" I replied it wouldn't be much longer if it didn't get washed and with that I got another "Och".....I'm off, see you later!

Shane came and went most of the evening, which I found quite irritating! I had stopped smoking, due to pressure from Shane, and had discovered that tracking and smoking don't go as it involves a lot of running, but by this time I was having the odd sneaky one due to pressure at work. This is our busiest time. Every time I went to "light up" Shane appeared and nearly caught me. Then just as I was safe in the knowledge that Shane was engrossed in his computer......Lit up fag.......Luke comes in.......I never got a sneaky cig that night. The rest is on the time~line. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
During his brothers murder trial, Shane was showed CS photos of JJ after a short recess he was asked if Luke was in the house whilst he was upstairs on his computer.

What was his reply to the court?

How you have worded that makes it all sound so simple. He was shown pics of Jodi but unlike anyone else who may have been shown them, he didnt get the same warning. No that was the whole idea. To knock him off his feet with the shock of seeing such pictures so his mind was in turmoil. A tactic they used on the Mitchell family quite often during the process!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:29:02 PM
This is what Corrine Mitchell claimed some years later:

"When I got home I went directly to the kitchen where I was confronted by Luke brandishing the broccoli! He asked if it should be that colour (it was turning yellowy) and I said no......bin the broccoli! He decided on beans instead...as it was a Monday and I do my weekly shop on a Tuesday there wasn't any other fresh vegetables left.

Both Luke and I served up. I told Luke to shout Shane down as he was upstairs. Shane came down, complained to Luke he had burnt the pie, I told him it could be scraped off, it wasn't that bad. Shane returned upstairs armed with his dinner. Luke ate his in front of the TV and I decided to have mine on the patio as I had been cooped up in my office all day and not seen any sun.

After eating dinner I was preparing to do the dishes when Luke came into the kitchen and said that that was him off. I joked with him and said.....don't tell me ...your seeing Jodi....as by this time Jodi had become more favourable than the cadets. I also suggested to him that he introduced his clothes to the washing machine as he had worn them for a couple of days. I got the usual teenage response......Och mum!.....and "this is Jodi’s favourite t-shirt" I replied it wouldn't be much longer if it didn't get washed and with that I got another "Och".....I'm off, see you later!

Shane came and went most of the evening, which I found quite irritating! I had stopped smoking, due to pressure from Shane, and had discovered that tracking and smoking don't go as it involves a lot of running, but by this time I was having the odd sneaky one due to pressure at work. This is our busiest time. Every time I went to "light up" Shane appeared and nearly caught me. Then just as I was safe in the knowledge that Shane was engrossed in his computer......Lit up fag.......Luke comes in.......I never got a sneaky cig that night. The rest is on the time~line. Hope this helps.

And? She never deviated from what she claimed all those years ago...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
And? She never deviated from what she claimed all those years ago...

Unlike everyone connected to the investigation!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:30:17 PM
How you have worded that makes it all sound so simple. He was shown pics of Jodi but unlike anyone else who may have been shown them, he didnt get the same warning. No that was the whole idea. To knock him off his feet with the shock of seeing such pictures so his mind was in turmoil. A tactic they used on the Mitchell family quite often during the process!

I dare say he would have been in shock too at seeing her in that state - no allowances are given to either Shane or Luke for that matter, like it was normal to see such a thing  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 01:39:33 PM
How you have worded that makes it all sound so simple. He was shown pics of Jodi but unlike anyone else who may have been shown them, he didnt get the same warning. No that was the whole idea. To knock him off his feet with the shock of seeing such pictures so his mind was in turmoil. A tactic they used on the Mitchell family quite often during the process!

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+PICS+HORROR+OF+MITCHELL%27S+BROTHER%3B+Tears+at+death+trial.-a0126987509
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:44:23 PM
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+PICS+HORROR+OF+MITCHELL%27S+BROTHER%3B+Tears+at+death+trial.-a0126987509


The line of questioning lead Shane to say he could have been watching porn...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 01:47:29 PM

The line of questioning lead Shane to say he could have been watching porn...

Shane Mitchell's evidence helped to convict his brother for JJ's murder!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:50:17 PM
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+PICS+HORROR+OF+MITCHELL%27S+BROTHER%3B+Tears+at+death+trial.-a0126987509

Also he didnt have a break between looking at the pics. he asked for one but it wasnt allowed. Sense a theme with asking and not receiving for the Mitchell family!

It was in fact Kelly who asked for a break and was given one along with a drink of water. No such luck for Shane, he just had to continue!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:52:07 PM
Shane Mitchell's evidence helped to convict his brother for JJ's murder!


Not surprising, the way they dealt with him court, refusing him a break after showing him pictures with his brothers mutilated girlfriend on them. The interrogation was as bad as it was when the police interrogated him. He never once said Luke WAS NOT in the house... Moving on!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:54:58 PM

The line of questioning lead Shane to say he could have been watching porn...

The time recorded for the porn sites being open on the computer suggested they were pop-ups as opposed to the sites being entered properly.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 01:55:54 PM
And he never said yes i WAS watching porn! helpful for people to be left thinking that though isnt it
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 01:58:19 PM
And he never said yes i WAS watching porn! helpful for people to be left thinking that though isnt it

Of course it is, they twisted the evidence to fit their case, they wouldn't have had to act so underhand if their case was strong enough without them doing so.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:10:25 PM
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+PICS+HORROR+OF+MITCHELL%27S+BROTHER%3B+Tears+at+death+trial.-a0126987509
Byline: By Gordon McIlwraith

"LUKE Mitchell's brother recoiled in horror yesterday as he was shown gruesome pictures of Jodi Jones's naked and mutilated body.

Shane Mitchell, 23, was confronted with the shocking images in court.

He turned away after being shown the first photo and immediately asked for a break.

Shane sat in the witness box sipping a glass of water and wiping tears from his eyes before he had to look at another four photos.

He then admitted that, when he returned home on the day that Jodi died, he watched porn on his computer because he thought he was alone in the house.

Luke Mitchell, now 16, denies murdering Jodi, and maintains he was in the house when she died.

Shane told the High Court in Edinburgh that, on June 30, 2003, he arrived home at Newbattle Abbey Crescent, Dalkeith, Midlothian, at 4.50pm.

He said he went upstairs to his bedroom and watched porn on the internet.

Advocate depute Alan Turnbull, QC, told Shane he had no desire to humiliate or embarrass him but he wanted to know if he did anything else at that time.

When Shane said he wasn't, Mr Turnbull asked him to look at photos of Jodi's body where it was found near the town's wooded Roan's Dyke path.

As he glanced at the first photo, Mr Turnbull stated: 'I am not surprised to see your reaction. You looked a bit horrified and looked away, didn't you?

Shane replied: 'Yes.' Mr Turnbull added: 'These are not pleasant.The reason I asked you to look at these is so you can appreciate what we are dealing with. Do you understand now?

'Do you appreciate I can't let embarrassment stand in the way of getting to the bottom of this?'

Again, Shane replied: 'Yes.' The witness then admitted he had been engaged in a sex act while watching porn.

He agreed with the prosecutor that he wouldn't have done that if he thought anyone else had been home.

Mr Turnbull asked him: 'On that evening,about 4.55pm,who did you think was in the house?'

Shane told him: 'No one at that time.' The advocate depute then asked: 'Did you see Luke when you went down after the internet session?'

The witness told the court:'I genuinely don't remember seeing my brother. He could have been there.'

Shane said his mum arrived home about 5.15pm and he joined her downstairs.

Mr Turnbull read out a police statement from Luke Mitchell in which he said he had tea with his mum before leaving the house at about 5.30pm to wait for Jodi.

His mother was present at the interview and, when police asked if he had eaten with Shane, his brother had asked her: 'Shane wasn't there, was he?'

His mum had intervened: 'No.' Luke had then added: 'Shane was not in when I left.'

Luke Mitchell denies murder and has lodged a special defence of alibi and incrimination. He said he was at home or in the immediate vicinity between 5pm and 5.45pm.




Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:15:50 PM
Shane said his mum arrived home about 5.15pm and he joined her downstairs.

Mr Turnbull read out a police statement from Luke Mitchell in which he said he had tea with his mum before leaving the house at about 5.30pm to wait for Jodi.

His mother was present at the interview and, when police asked if he had eaten with Shane, his brother had asked her: 'Shane wasn't there, was he?'

His mum had intervened: 'No.' Luke had then added: 'Shane was not in when I left.'

Luke Mitchell denies murder and has lodged a special defence of alibi and incrimination. He said he was at home or in the immediate vicinity between 5pm and 5.45pm.

This is what Corrine Mitchell claimed some years later:

"When I got home I went directly to the kitchen where I was confronted by Luke brandishing the broccoli! He asked if it should be that colour (it was turning yellowy) and I said no......bin the broccoli! He decided on beans instead...as it was a Monday and I do my weekly shop on a Tuesday there wasn't any other fresh vegetables left.

Both Luke and I served up. I told Luke to shout Shane down as he was upstairs. Shane came down, complained to Luke he had burnt the pie, I told him it could be scraped off, it wasn't that bad. Shane returned upstairs armed with his dinner. Luke ate his in front of the TV and I decided to have mine on the patio as I had been cooped up in my office all day and not seen any sun.

After eating dinner I was preparing to do the dishes when Luke came into the kitchen and said that that was him off. I joked with him and said.....don't tell me ...your seeing Jodi....as by this time Jodi had become more favourable than the cadets. I also suggested to him that he introduced his clothes to the washing machine as he had worn them for a couple of days. I got the usual teenage response......Och mum!.....and "this is Jodi’s favourite t-shirt" I replied it wouldn't be much longer if it didn't get washed and with that I got another "Och".....I'm off, see you later!

Shane came and went most of the evening, which I found quite irritating! I had stopped smoking, due to pressure from Shane, and had discovered that tracking and smoking don't go as it involves a lot of running, but by this time I was having the odd sneaky one due to pressure at work. This is our busiest time. Every time I went to "light up" Shane appeared and nearly caught me. Then just as I was safe in the knowledge that Shane was engrossed in his computer......Lit up fag.......Luke comes in.......I never got a sneaky cig that night. The rest is on the time~line. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:16:47 PM
Byline: By Gordon McIlwraith

"LUKE Mitchell's brother recoiled in horror yesterday as he was shown gruesome pictures of Jodi Jones's naked and mutilated body.

Shane Mitchell, 23, was confronted with the shocking images in court.

He turned away after being shown the first photo and immediately asked for a break.

Shane sat in the witness box sipping a glass of water and wiping tears from his eyes before he had to look at another four photos.

He then admitted that, when he returned home on the day that Jodi died, he watched porn on his computer because he thought he was alone in the house.

Luke Mitchell, now 16, denies murdering Jodi, and maintains he was in the house when she died.

Shane told the High Court in Edinburgh that, on June 30, 2003, he arrived home at Newbattle Abbey Crescent, Dalkeith, Midlothian, at 4.50pm.

He said he went upstairs to his bedroom and watched porn on the internet.

Advocate depute Alan Turnbull, QC, told Shane he had no desire to humiliate or embarrass him but he wanted to know if he did anything else at that time.

When Shane said he wasn't, Mr Turnbull asked him to look at photos of Jodi's body where it was found near the town's wooded Roan's Dyke path.

As he glanced at the first photo, Mr Turnbull stated: 'I am not surprised to see your reaction. You looked a bit horrified and looked away, didn't you?

Shane replied: 'Yes.' Mr Turnbull added: 'These are not pleasant.The reason I asked you to look at these is so you can appreciate what we are dealing with. Do you understand now?

'Do you appreciate I can't let embarrassment stand in the way of getting to the bottom of this?'

Again, Shane replied: 'Yes.' The witness then admitted he had been engaged in a sex act while watching porn.

He agreed with the prosecutor that he wouldn't have done that if he thought anyone else had been home.

Mr Turnbull asked him: 'On that evening,about 4.55pm,who did you think was in the house?'

Shane told him: 'No one at that time.' The advocate depute then asked: 'Did you see Luke when you went down after the internet session?'

The witness told the court:'I genuinely don't remember seeing my brother. He could have been there.'

Shane said his mum arrived home about 5.15pm and he joined her downstairs.

Mr Turnbull read out a police statement from Luke Mitchell in which he said he had tea with his mum before leaving the house at about 5.30pm to wait for Jodi.

His mother was present at the interview and, when police asked if he had eaten with Shane, his brother had asked her: 'Shane wasn't there, was he?'

His mum had intervened: 'No.' Luke had then added: 'Shane was not in when I left.'

Luke Mitchell denies murder and has lodged a special defence of alibi and incrimination. He said he was at home or in the immediate vicinity between 5pm and 5.45pm.

Another sensationalised article, funny how excerpts from transcripts do not say this. Yes they are in Sandra Lean's book, word for word! Even if Shane wasn't home when Luke left that just means Shane could have left before him, yet again nothing conclusive!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:17:32 PM
And he never said yes i WAS watching porn! helpful for people to be left thinking that though isnt it

".....The witness then admitted he had been engaged in a sex act while watching porn
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:18:09 PM
"Shane came and went most of the evening, which I found quite irritating"
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 02:18:17 PM
From the Court Transcript

After picture 1 the QC says you looked a bit horrified and Shane asks for  a break... The Judge says you can sit down.

The OC asks are you all right? Shane says Uh huh and the QC says now look at picture W X and AA they are not pleasant!

Then goes on to say dont let embarrassment get in the way

So you can see, no break  just permission to sit down just in case his legs gave out from under him due to the shock of seeing the pics.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:19:18 PM

Not surprising, the way they dealt with him court, refusing him a break after showing him pictures with his brothers mutilated girlfriend on them. The interrogation was as bad as it was when the police interrogated him. He never once said Luke WAS NOT in the house... Moving on!

"He turned away after being shown the first photo and immediately asked for a break.

Shane sat in the witness box sipping a glass of water and wiping tears from his eyes before he had to look at another four photos.

He then admitted that, when he returned home on the day that Jodi died, he watched porn on his computer because he thought he was alone in the house
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 02:19:45 PM
".....The witness then admitted he had been engaged in a sex act while watching porn

No he didnt. The most he says is that he could have been! The line of questioning lead him to agree to saying could have been!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
".....The witness then admitted he had been engaged in a sex act while watching porn

He DID NOT admit any such thing!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
"He turned away after being shown the first photo and immediately asked for a break.

Shane sat in the witness box sipping a glass of water and wiping tears from his eyes before he had to look at another four photos.

He then admitted that, when he returned home on the day that Jodi died, he watched porn on his computer because he thought he was alone in the house


You can repost as much as you like, doesnt make it true!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:20:57 PM
No he didnt. The most he says is that he could have been! The line of questioning lead him to agree to saying could have been!

 8@??)(

A newspaper getting things totally wrong, shock horror!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:21:34 PM
they twisted the evidence to fit their case

Appears to me the Mitchell's "twisted the evidence to fit their case
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:21:44 PM
You can repost as much as you like, doesnt make it true!

He asked for a break but he certainly did not get one!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:22:26 PM
You can repost as much as you like, doesnt make it true!

Ditto!

Nor does any of what you've posted make him innocent!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:23:22 PM
Appears to me the Mitchell's "twisted the evidence to fit their case

It would appear that way to you .Perhaps you should get a job for the police, you're great at twisting things to fit your theories, and relying on newspaper articles to do so 
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
I am not the repeat poster, you are! over and over again, til your point is proven to be wrong then you quickly jump to another part to go on about!

The transcript backs up the point!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:24:14 PM
Ditto!

Nor does any of what you've posted make him innocent!

At least we can rely on facts, you have been proven wrong at least 3 times today!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:26:02 PM
You describe your own character to a tee!

Who is relying on newspaper articles, which have been proven wrong?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 02:27:46 PM
Who is relying on newspaper articles, which have been proven wrong?  @)(++(*

 @)(++(* oh the irony
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 02:40:25 PM
Ditto!

Nor does any of what you've posted make him innocent!

It kind of proves you wrong though at the very least, regarding his home life, state of mind and relationship with his mother!  8)--))
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:46:42 PM
Says Doctor Stephanie, who totally ignores the psychology evaluation saying that he did not have such issues!

Luke Mitchell had been urinating in bottles and storing them in his bedroom prior to JJ's murder!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 02:52:29 PM
I'm presuming the rats were dead?

"David High, who was asked about an object on a shelf below the bunk in another photograph and who said that there were two rats in a glass container

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
Ok, we're on topic------can we discuss Luke's case without insulting each other. Thanks!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:04:06 PM
Luke Mitchell had been urinating in bottles and storing them in his bedroom prior to JJ's murder!

Where is your evidence of this?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:05:24 PM
I'm presuming the rats were dead?

"David High, who was asked about an object on a shelf below the bunk in another photograph and who said that there were two rats in a glass container

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Why? They could have been pet rats kept in an aquarium i.e glass container...
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:06:19 PM
She is probably ok with this as she only likes to make unfounded allegations against Luke, his mother and his brother - allegations which have been proven wrong within the appeal judgment. He was of sound mind and his home life was normal!

What unfounded allegations have I made?

Put up or shut up!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:07:31 PM
Where is your evidence of this?

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:08:14 PM
What unfounded allegations have I made?

Put up or shut up!

Oh just that Luke is a psychopath who had an odd relationship with his mother who did not parent him properly, those kind of unfounded allegations... I think it is you who should shut up!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:14:58 PM
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Where does it say the bottles were stored before her death, it doesn't!

The bottles were found on July 15th by officer Michelle Lindsay - his house was searched on July 4th in which no bottles were found - clearly human error in the judgment!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:25:36 PM
Why? They could have been pet rats kept in an aquarium i.e glass container...

It would appear that way to you .Perhaps you should get a job for the police, you're great at twisting things to fit your theories,
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:26:20 PM
What size were the bottles seized by police and how long do you think it took LM to fill?

@)(++(*

They weren't linked to trauma either were they
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:27:28 PM
Where does it say the bottles were stored before her death, it doesn't!

The bottles were found on July 15th by officer Michelle Lindsay - his house was searched on July 4th in which no bottles were found - clearly human error in the judgment!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
Ok detective, where does it say these rats were dead? Again just your spin on things!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:36:10 PM
My mistake I read the judgment wrong on the dates - there is absolutely no proof that any bottles of urine were stored before Jodi's death, none whatsoever! It was the liaison officer who found them on the 15th when she had been asked to look for video's in Lukes room.

Notwithstanding the fact Stephanie that even if they had been found on the 4th, that was still after the death of Jodi!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:47:08 PM
Ok detective, where does it say these rats were dead? Again just your spin on things!

Were the rats dead or alive?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:48:19 PM
Were the rats dead or alive?

You have already claimed they were dead so why are you asking?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:49:30 PM
My mistake I read the judgment wrong on the dates - there is absolutely no proof that any bottles of urine were stored before Jodi's death, none whatsoever! It was the liaison officer who found them on the 15th when she had been asked to look for video's in Lukes room.

Notwithstanding the fact Stephanie that even if they had been found on the 4th, that was still after the death of Jodi!

In 4 days he'd produced 20 bottles of urine? Really?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:51:41 PM
In 4 days he'd produced 20 bottles of urine? Really?

OMG - how do you know he didn't? Maybe you will go and find a link about how much the average person pee's in 4 days! You do not even know how big the bottles were, you are guessing!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:51:56 PM
Where does it say the bottles were stored before her death, it doesn't!

The bottles were found on July 15th by officer Michelle Lindsay - his house was searched on July 4th in which no bottles were found - clearly human error in the judgment!

Ok detective, ........... Again just your spin on things!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:53:01 PM
OMG - how do you know he didn't? Maybe you will go and find a link about how much the average person pee's in 4 days! You do not even know how big the bottles were, you are guessing!

Re read the judgement

I do not believe Luke Mitchell urinating in bottles and storing them was linked to trauma!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:53:52 PM


 *&^^&

Not my spin on things Stephanie! It is in Sandra Lean's book, taken from transcribed evidence which you have not seen and she has...  Try again!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 03:55:18 PM
You have already claimed they were dead so why are you asking?

Please provide evidence to support this claim!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:57:15 PM
Re read the judgement

I do not believe Luke Mitchell urinating in bottles and storing them was linked to trauma!

I do not need to re-read the judgment - what you think and what you can prove is two totally different things! You choose the most sinister reasons - at worst, even if it was not related to trauma, he could have just been a lazy 14 year old with bad habits! It may not have been linked to trauma, but it very well could have been! Nothing to prove it either way!  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 03:59:45 PM
I'm presuming the rats were dead?

"David High, who was asked about an object on a shelf below the bunk in another photograph and who said that there were two rats in a glass container

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Ok so you didn't claim, but more guess work on your behalf!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:00:40 PM
*&^^&

Not my spin on things Stephanie! It is in Sandra Lean's book, taken from transcribed evidence which you have not seen and she has...  Try again!

Mr Turnbull read out a police statement from Luke Mitchell in which he said he had tea with his mum before leaving the house at about 5.30pm to wait for Jodi.

His mother was present at the interview and, when police asked if he had eaten with Shane, his brother had asked her: 'Shane wasn't there, was he?'

His mum had intervened: 'No.' Luke had then added: 'Shane was not in when I left.'

Luke Mitchell denies murder and has lodged a special defence of alibi and incrimination. He said he was at home or in the immediate vicinity between 5pm and 5.45pm.

This is what Corrine Mitchell claimed some years later:

"When I got home I went directly to the kitchen where I was confronted by Luke brandishing the broccoli! He asked if it should be that colour (it was turning yellowy) and I said no......bin the broccoli! He decided on beans instead...as it was a Monday and I do my weekly shop on a Tuesday there wasn't any other fresh vegetables left.

Both Luke and I served up. I told Luke to shout Shane down as he was upstairs. Shane came down, complained to Luke he had burnt the pie, I told him it could be scraped off, it wasn't that bad. Shane returned upstairs armed with his dinner. Luke ate his in front of the TV and I decided to have mine on the patio as I had been cooped up in my office all day and not seen any sun.

After eating dinner I was preparing to do the dishes when Luke came into the kitchen and said that that was him off. I joked with him and said.....don't tell me ...your seeing Jodi....as by this time Jodi had become more favourable than the cadets. I also suggested to him that he introduced his clothes to the washing machine as he had worn them for a couple of days. I got the usual teenage response......Och mum!.....and "this is Jodi’s favourite t-shirt" I replied it wouldn't be much longer if it didn't get washed and with that I got another "Och".....I'm off, see you later!

Shane came and went most of the evening, which I found quite irritating! I had stopped smoking, due to pressure from Shane, and had discovered that tracking and smoking don't go as it involves a lot of running, but by this time I was having the odd sneaky one due to pressure at work. This is our busiest time. Every time I went to "light up" Shane appeared and nearly caught me. Then just as I was safe in the knowledge that Shane was engrossed in his computer......Lit up fag.......Luke comes in.......I never got a sneaky cig that night. The rest is on the time~line. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:01:36 PM
And?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:02:16 PM
Ok so you didn't claim, but more guess work on your behalf!

So were the rats dead or alive, you haven't answered?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
So were the rats dead or alive, you haven't answered?

Nor am I going too!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:07:29 PM
Luke Mitchell had been urinating in bottles and storing them in his bedroom prior to JJ's murder!

 *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:09:05 PM
Jixy has had confirmation from Sandra Lean that the rats were very much alive - pet rats! Happy now?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
I'm presuming the rats were dead?

"David High, who was asked about an object on a shelf below the bunk in another photograph and who said that there were two rats in a glass container

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

presuming is a very dangerous activity
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
Ok, we're on topic------can we discuss Luke's case without insulting each other. Thanks!

we were doing just fine the last couple of days then.... oops
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:10:44 PM
My mistake I read the judgment wrong on the dates - there is absolutely no proof that any bottles of urine were stored before Jodi's death, none whatsoever! It was the liaison officer who found them on the 15th when she had been asked to look for video's in Lukes room.

Notwithstanding the fact Stephanie that even if they had been found on the 4th, that was still after the death of Jodi!

It reads to me as though Luke Mitchell urinated in bottles to save getting up in the night and using the bathroom

IMO, holding on to all this urine in bottles and hiding them in socks, drawers etc is a behaviour suggestive of abnormal emotional and cognitive functioning abilities.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:10:53 PM
What unfounded allegations have I made?

Put up or shut up!

 *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:12:11 PM
presuming is a very dangerous activity

It just gets ridiculous, I was beginning to think it was me who is on trial for murder  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:13:09 PM
Please provide evidence to support this claim!

like you do you mean? from random links from the internet. The court transcript is accurate unlike the claims you make
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:14:02 PM
It reads to me as though Luke Mitchell urinated in bottles to save getting up in the night and using the bathroom

IMO, holding on to all this urine in bottles and hiding them in socks, drawers etc is a behaviour suggestive of abnormal emotional and cognitive functioning abilities.

Oh and you are qualified to diagnose that are you?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:14:41 PM
It reads to me as though Luke Mitchell urinated in bottles to save getting up in the night and using the bathroom

IMO, holding on to all this urine in bottles and hiding them in socks, drawers etc is a behaviour suggestive of abnormal emotional and cognitive functioning abilities.


wrong again!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:15:14 PM
It just gets ridiculous, I was beginning to think it was me who is on trial for murder  @)(++(*
[/quote

you get that vibe dont you  8()(((@#
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:16:06 PM
presuming is a very dangerous activity

No mention of breathing holes in the glass container for said rats nor indeed mention of food or water?

Given Luke Mitchell's propensity to urinate in bottles instead of getting up and using the bathroom; I cannot imagine him taking care of two pet rats in his bedroom, can you?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:16:54 PM

wrong again!

How do you know if you are suffering from PTSD unless you are diagnosed by someone qualified to diagnose you? Some people do not even realise they are suffering from depression!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:17:52 PM
No mention of breathing holes in the glass container for said rats nor indeed mention of food or water?

Given Luke Mitchell's propensity to urinate in bottles instead of using the bathroom; I cannot imagine him taking care of two pet rats in his bedroom, can you?

No description of them being dead either! They were pet rats "put up or shut up"!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:19:10 PM
It reads to me as though Luke Mitchell urinated in bottles to save getting up in the night and using the bathroom

IMO, holding on to all this urine in bottles and hiding them in socks, drawers etc is a behaviour suggestive of abnormal emotional and cognitive functioning abilities.

Similar to the many other abnormal emotional and cognitive behaviours presented by LM!

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility


Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz5WkhuI1BC
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:20:20 PM
Similar to the many other abnormal emotional and cognitive behaviours presented by LM!

You are not a Dr, you may think you are, and you may think you diagnose people from reading a few websites, but you cannot!  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
No mention of breathing holes in the glass container for said rats nor indeed mention of food or water?

Given Luke Mitchell's propensity to urinate in bottles instead of getting up and using the bathroom; I cannot imagine him taking care of two pet rats in his bedroom, can you?


so much I could say to this post... there really is but where would i start?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:22:23 PM
Similar to the many other abnormal emotional and cognitive behaviours presented by LM!

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility


Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz5WkhuI1BC


and you would have experience of this Stephanie?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:23:23 PM
You are not a Dr, you may think you are, and you may think you diagnose people from reading a few websites, but you cannot!  *&^^&

Psychiatrists diagnose psychopathy, not doctors!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:23:50 PM

and you would have experience of this Stephanie?

Yes - self-qualified it seems. No need for university, just read a few websites and you are good to go!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:24:56 PM
Psychiatrists diagnose psychopathy, not doctors!

Psychiatrists are Doctors  @)(++(* And you are neither!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:25:32 PM

so much I could say to this post... there really is but where would i start?

No description of them being dead either! They were pet rats "put up or shut up"!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2018, 04:25:56 PM
Where is your evidence of this?

Yes, I was about to ask the same question! Wasn't it said that Luke did this as a result of trauma arising from Jodi's murder?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:26:40 PM
Similar to the many other abnormal emotional and cognitive behaviours presented by LM!

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility


Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz5WkhuI1BC

are these the real ones or the imaginary ones like his obsession with Manson? wasnt even his obsession but yey stick it on the list. why not he is a weirdo anyway so what does it matter?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:28:18 PM
Yes, I was about to ask the same question! Wasn't it said that Luke did this as a result of trauma arising from Jodi's murder?

Think we are bypassing the evidence today mrswah and just assuming and making it up. Not that miscarriage of justice happens that way. perish the thought
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:29:06 PM
Yes, I was about to ask the same question! Wasn't it said that Luke did this as a result of trauma arising from Jodi's murder?

He was never diagnosed with PTSD but he was never tested for it either, it is a real possibility that it was a result of trauma given the fact there was no evidence to suggest he did this prior to her death.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
He was never diagnosed with PTSD but he was never tested for it either, it is a real possibility that it was a result of trauma given the fact there was no evidence to suggest he did this prior to her death.

it Wouldnt have changed anything for Luke because no one cared what they did to him or how he reacted.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2018, 04:32:02 PM
Psychiatrists diagnose psychopathy, not doctors!

Psychiatrists ARE doctors!  Psychologists are not.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:32:35 PM
it Wouldnt have changed anything for Luke because no one cared what they did to him or how he reacted.

No I am sure even if it were diagnosed that some people will have still went with the more sinister view - always a no-win situation, even when there is evidence/facts to suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
Psychiatrists ARE doctors!  Psychologists are not.

I don't mean to be rude Mrswah, but both are said to be Doctors.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:38:10 PM
are these the real ones or the imaginary ones like his obsession with Manson? wasnt even his obsession but yey stick it on the list. why not he is a weirdo anyway so what does it matter?

It won't be the first time the police and prosecution have introduced "imaginary" theories like this in murder investigations/trials.

I don't believe JJ's murder had anything to do with Manson or the black dahlia.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 04:41:58 PM
something we both agree on. He had no attachment at all to Manson
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
I don't mean to be rude Mrswah, but both are said to be Doctors.

You are not rude----at least, not in this instance!

I have a psychology degree, and, had I wanted to be a psychologist, I would have needed to do a couple of years postgraduate training (I didn't ------too old by then, couldn't afford it, etc).  But, I would not have been a doctor.  Psychiatrists are medical doctors, who have then specialised in psychiatry. They can prescribe drugs, but psychologists cant.  I suppose a psychologist could be an academic doctor, if he or she had a PhD, but that isn't the same as a medical doctor.

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:51:22 PM
You are not rude----at least, not in this instance!

I have a psychology degree, and, had I wanted to be a psychologist, I would have needed to do a couple of years postgraduate training (I didn't ------too old by then, couldn't afford it, etc).  But, I would not have been a doctor.  Psychiatrists are medical doctors, who have then specialised in psychiatry. They can prescribe drugs, but psychologists cant.  I suppose a psychologist could be an academic doctor, if he or she had a PhD, but that isn't the same as a medical doctor.

Anyone who holds a doctorate can be called a Doctor, including psychologists.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 04:58:14 PM
Similar to the many other abnormal emotional and cognitive behaviours presented by LM!

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility


Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz5WkhuI1BC

And psychopaths can pass lie detector tests

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 04:59:43 PM
And psychopaths can pass lie detector tests

Luke is not a psychopath so this is a moot point! Unless you are diagnosing what the psychiatrist did not?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 05:01:02 PM
Luke is not a psychopath so this is a moot point! Unless you are diagnosing what the psychiatrist did not?

 a couple of google links and anything is possible
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 05:01:21 PM
And psychopaths can pass lie detector tests

His mother passed a lie detector test - are you diagnosing her too?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
When No Smoke has been updated , hopefully all the new info that has come to light about Luke will reach more people. Even after all this time, someone could disclose what they know about the murder because someone must know something
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: mrswah on November 13, 2018, 05:07:56 PM
Anyone who holds a doctorate can be called a Doctor, including psychologists.

Absolutely true, but there is a difference between an academic doctor and a medical doctor.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 05:12:48 PM
Absolutely true, but there is a difference between an academic doctor and a medical doctor.

I agree, but do not think that was the point being made - Stephanie just made the point that psychiatrists aren't Doctors which is not true - psychiatrists and psychologists are both Doctors in their own field. Either way she was wrong.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 05:26:26 PM
When No Smoke has been updated , hopefully all the new info that has come to light about Luke will reach more people. Even after all this time, someone could disclose what they know about the murder because someone must know something

Will look forward to reading the updated version when it is complete.   ?{)(**
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 05:27:31 PM
Me too. Another to add to  my reading list.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 05:38:29 PM
Psychiatrists diagnose psychopathy, not doctors!

"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?

Was it possible Luke Mitchell feared what the psychiatrist would conclude?

it Wouldnt have changed anything for Luke because no one cared what they did to him or how he reacted.

That's not entirely true is it? His school had concerns.

Didn't he refuse to see the psychiatrist!

"The prosecution highlighted his knife-carrying and cannabis smoking, and claimed he had told another teenager that he knew the way "to slit someone's throat"

"Left largely to his own devices he became defiant, violent and brooding with an unhealthy fascination with knives, the occult and drugs. He was first brought to the attention of the mental health profession aged just 11, following a fight at King’s Park Primary in Dalkeith. Although the incident was just a minor skirmish with another pupil, Mitchell’s attitude was sufficiently troublesome to warrant a referral to a school psychiatrist. However, there appears to have been little further action taken by the education authorities or his parents to curb his behaviour. When he was 12 he threatened his then girlfriend with a knife because she refused to have sex with him. The incidents went on. When he moved to St David’s High, a music teacher found him trying to throttle another pupil and he was sent to an educational psychologist. He refused the expert’s help. Instead Mitchell became a rebellious, mysterious teenager who was heavily into cannabis and supplied his Goth friends with the drug

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 05:55:24 PM
He was rebelling in school and was referred to an education psychologist - I have not read anything to suggest he refused to see one and even if he did so what? Plenty of children rebel!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 05:57:41 PM
So it was just "a minor skirmish" but warranted a referral - sounds like it was blown out of proportion!

He allegedly attacked these girls but not one police report to back up the allegations...

And we all know it was Jodi's relative who supplied both Jodi and Luke with cannabis but the newspapers do not make a big deal out of that!

The difference in the way people were treated in contrast to Luke is/was ridiculous!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 06:01:35 PM
He was rebelling in school and was referred to an education psychologist - I have not read anything to suggest he refused to see one and even if he did so what? Plenty of children rebel!

And by the time Luke Mitchell was 14 years old, JJ was found murdered.

By 15 years old he was in a YOI (awaiting trial)

And at 16 he went on trial for her murder!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 06:02:30 PM
And by the time Luke Mitchell was 14 years old, JJ was found murdered.

By 15 years old he was in a YOI

And at 16 he went of trial for her murder!

He was on remand for the murder before he went to trial - it is not separate incidents so why do you make them sound like it is?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 06:15:20 PM
It kind of proves you wrong though at the very least, regarding his home life, state of mind and relationship with his mother!  8)--))

The jury obviously thought otherwise!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 06:18:52 PM
The jury obviously thought otherwise!

You say that like you are sure juries never get it wrong  @)(++(*

PS It still proves you wrong on the things I pointed out, whether the jury was wrong or not!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 06:27:09 PM
No mention of breathing holes in the glass container for said rats nor indeed mention of food or water?

Given Luke Mitchell's propensity to urinate in bottles instead of getting up and using the bathroom; I cannot imagine him taking care of two pet rats in his bedroom, can you?


Just to confirm that rats had as many holes as any rat could wish for. To indicate otherwise is just lies there were never any issues with them or their safety
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 06:30:35 PM

Just to confirm that rats had as many holes as any rat could wish for. To indicate otherwise is just lies there were never any issues with them or their safety

Why would an appeal judgment go into detail about any of that anyway? I am sure it would only have been an issue if they were dead, which they were not. If they were dead it more than likely would have stated dead rats, not just rats... Just grasping at irrelevant straws.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 06:31:40 PM
Yes just another case of just because it's not mentioned does it imply otherwise
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 06:32:54 PM
You say that like you are sure juries never get it wrong  @)(++(*

PS It still proves you wrong on the things I pointed out, whether the jury was wrong or not!

You have a habit of claiming everything I post to be wrong; whether it's true is another matter.





Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 06:37:14 PM
You have a habit of claiming everything I post to be wrong; whether it's true is another matter.

Because 99% of it is -  I put up a link to an appeal judgment which proves you are wrong about Luke's home life, clearly hanging on hearsay regarding the relationship with his mother and totally diagnosing him yourself when a psychiatrist stated otherwise - what part of that is not the truth? When you are wrong you are wrong, there is no sugar-coating it!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 07:22:10 PM
Because 99% of it is -  I put up a link to an appeal judgment which proves you are wrong about Luke's home life, clearly hanging on hearsay regarding the relationship with his mother and totally diagnosing him yourself when a psychiatrist stated otherwise - what part of that is not the truth? When you are wrong you are wrong, there is no sugar-coating it!

APPEAL AGAINST SENTENCE

2 February 2011
[26] I regret that I am unable to agree with the conclusion of your Lordship in the chair that this appeal should be allowed and that the punishment part of the sentence should be fixed at 15 years.
[27] While I understand and share your Lordship's obvious concerns about a sentence requiring a young person to spend his youth and the early part of his adult life in custody before he can even apply for parole, such concerns arise in every case in which a teenager commits murder by stabbing his victim and the punishment part of his sentence is fixed at 16 years or more. That, however, is the consequence of the guidance provided to sentencers by the court in HMA v Boyle, at paragraph [16] of its opinion quoted by your Lordship. In that part of its opinion the court recognised concerns about a particular problem associated with knife crime in Scotland and was advocating a punishment part of at least (my emphasis) 16 years in such cases, other than in exceptional circumstances. The court also recognised that the punishment part might be significantly longer depending upon the circumstances of the case. I agree with your Lordship that sentencing guidelines are subject always to the discretion of the sentencing judge. They provide a structure for judicial discretion but should not lead to a mechanistic approach to sentencing. However, the sentencing judge retains a responsibility for determining the appropriate sentence in any case. (HMA v Boyle; HMA v Mackenzie 1990 JC 62; HMA v Graham 2010 HJAC 50). Having said that, it is also desirable and in the public interest, as well as the interest of everyone involved in the sentencing process, that there should be consistency in sentencing.
[28] If the guidelines in HMA v Boyle are followed, the result is likely to be that a punishment part of 16 years is the norm or starting-point for determining the punishment part in all but the most exceptional of cases of murder by stabbing. It is common for such murders to be committed by young people often in the context of what may be described as a "gang culture". I do not consider that the youth of the appellant in this case merits a departure from the starting-point of 16 years. There is no suggestion that he was unaware of the dangers associated with knives, in which he had an interest. Unlike many young people convicted of such crimes of violence, he is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background. As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation. (para [9]).
[29] He does not suffer from mental disorder and there was no evidence of emotional maladjustment or childhood abuse or of significant abnormality of mind at the time of the murder. (para [12]). In all the circumstances it is appropriate to take 16 years as a starting point.

[30] The question then becomes whether 16 years is the appropriate period or whether the circumstances merit the imposition of a significantly longer period. The circumstances of the murder have been narrated by your Lordship, including the nature and extent of the injuries inflicted upon his 14 year old victim by the appellant (para [5]). It is unnecessary for me to dwell upon them. Suffice it to say that this was a sustained, prolonged and brutal attack upon an innocent young girl involving extensive blunt force injury, mechanical strangulation, multiple cuts and penetrating injuries as well as extensive post mortem mutilation. This clearly merits a significantly longer period as a punishment part than a case of murder involving a single stab wound or even two or three stab wounds. Having considered the nature and extent of the attack and the consequential injuries inflicted upon the deceased before and after death, I am unable to conclude that the sentencing judge erred in the exercise of his discretion when he selected a period of 20 years. The period might well be severe but it cannot be categorised as excessive.
[31] I have also considered your Lordship's analysis of other cases resulting in the conclusion that the sentencing judge erred when he considered that a longer period would have been appropriate in the case of an adult offender. Regrettably I cannot agree. In Walker v HMA the court recognised the difficulty of undertaking a comparative exercise involving cases which had not been the subject of consideration by the appeal court, as well as the general difficulty in comparing the nature and gravity of one case with another. (para. [9]). Fraser v HMA and Al-Megrahi v HMA both fall into the former category. Moreover, in Al-Megrahi there was an outstanding Crown appeal against an alleged unduly lenient sentence when Al-Megrahi was released from custody by the Executive. There is, in my opinion, the additional difficulty associated with a comparative exercise that even in those cases considered by the appeal court taken as comparators, the court was concerned with the question whether a sentence imposed was excessive. That was the case in Cowie v HMA. The court did not specify the range available to the sentencer but merely concluded that the sentence imposed was entirely appropriate to the crime and was not excessive.
[32] Sentencing is not an exact science and in almost every case there will be a range within which the sentencer may exercise his or her discretion in determining the appropriate sentence. For that reason different sentencers may reach a different view but as long as the resulting sentence falls within the appropriate range of discretion it cannot be said to be excessive. If an adult had attacked the 14 year old in this case in the manner described, a much longer period than 20 years would, in my view, have been within the range of discretion available to the sentencing judge. I am reinforced in that view by what appears to be a recent trend of imposing longer periods as punishment parts of life sentences. The most recent example is Smith v HMA 2010 HCJAC 118 in which the court concluded that a punishment part of 32 years, restricted from 35 years to reflect an early plea of guilty, was not excessive. Although that case involved the murder of two people, one of whom was a child, nevertheless it confirms that in some cases a period in excess of 30 years is an appropriate period for a punishment part. While I do not consider that such cases will or should be confined to multiple murders, it is not possible or appropriate to enumerate all the circumstances in which such a sentence may be appropriate. Suffice it to say that the determination of the appropriate period will depend upon a variety of factors, one of which will be the nature, circumstances and severity of the attack resulting in the death of the victim.
[33] In all the circumstances I would refuse this appeal

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[34] I too regret that I am unable to agree with the conclusion of your Lordship in the chair that this appeal should be allowed and that the punishment part should be fixed at 15 years.
[35] Reference has been made by your Lordship to the guidance provided to sentencers by the court in HMA v Boyle. That Full Bench decision establishes (para [16]) that other than in exceptional circumstances, a punishment part of at least sixteen years, and possibly significant longer, might be expected for murders committed by the use of a knife. The court observed that at the present time knife crime is a scourge in the Scottish community. It is of course a regrettable fact of daily life in our criminal courts that much of that knife crime is committed by young offenders.
[36] Your Lordship has analysed other cases and come to the conclusion that had the present case involved an adult offender, the punishment part would not have been more than 20 years. I regret I cannot agree. The suggestion that 30 years is to be seen as a virtual maximum punishment part is now specifically disapproved (para [13] of Boyle). An appeal against a punishment period of 32 years, restricted from 35 years for the early plea, for the double murder of a mother and her daughter has since been refused by the court in the case of Smith v HMA 2010 HCJAC 118.
[37] Every case of murder is distinguished by its own particular facts and circumstances. It is extremely difficult to compare in any meaningful way the circumstances and gravity of one case with those of another. There can be no doubt that the sentencing judge was correct to regard this as a very serious crime. It involved the repeated use of a knife and a sustained and brutal attack on a trusting and defenceless fourteen year old girl who suffered a horrible death and whose body was thereafter extensively mutilated. I do not consider that he can be said to have erred in considering that a longer period would have been appropriate for this crime had it been committed by an adult offender.
[38] I too understand and share your Lordship's concerns about the imposition of a sentence requiring a young person to remain in custody without prospect of release for a very long period. Nevertheless, having regard to the guidance provided by the court in Boyle and the grave nature of this crime, I find I am unable to conclude that the punishment period chosen was outwith the reasonable range available to the sentencing judge.
[39] In all the circumstances I too would refuse the appeal
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 07:40:44 PM
I do not get your point - it was you who was saying things to the contrary which was the reason I pointed that appeal out. It was you who said he had a dysfunctional family life and you who said he had mental issues - your own post above proves you wrong  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 07:46:56 PM
I do not get your point - it was you who was saying things to the contrary which was the reason I pointed that appeal out. It was you who said he had a dysfunctional family life and you who said he had mental issues - your own post above proves you wrong  *%87

"He is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background

Unable
/ʌnˈeɪb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
lacking the skill, means, or opportunity to do something.
"she was unable to conceal her surprise"
synonyms:   not able, powerless, impotent, not up/equal to, at a loss, inadequate, ineffectual, incompetent, unfit, unfitted, unqualified
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
"He is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background

Unable
/ʌnˈeɪb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
lacking the skill, means, or opportunity to do something.
"she was unable to conceal her surprise"
synonyms:   not able, powerless, impotent, not up/equal to, at a loss, inadequate, ineffectual, incompetent, unfit, unfitted, unqualified

Because he did not have a deprived background, which that appeal judgment clearly states  @)(++(*

As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 07:54:24 PM
Let me explain that part for you because you clearly are failing to understand. The appeal courts say he committed the crime, he could not blame his family life for the crime he allegedly committed because he had a privileged background... Making sense now?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 08:04:46 PM
Let me explain that part for you because you clearly are failing to understand. The appeal courts say he committed the crime, he could not blame his family life for the crime he allegedly committed because he had a privileged background... Making sense now?

No, this is YOUR interpretation of what the appeal judges concluded.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 08:08:11 PM
No, this is your interpretation of what the appeal judges concluded.

It is the correct interpretation, read it again, you are misinterpreting - he could not (was unable to) attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background - this cannot and does not mean he had a deprived background, especially as in the same paragraph it is stated he had a privileged background... not rocket science!

And this is why he could not blame his family life for the crime he allegedly committed - appeals are best read in there full context rather than cherry-picking.

[9] The appellant has no previous convictions. His parents separated when he was 11 years old. He lived with his mother and his older brother, and spent time with his father at weekends. The reports available to the trial judge suggested that the appellant had a fairly comfortable home life, and had hobbies such as horse-riding and motorcycling. Despite their separation, both parents appear to have taken part in his upbringing. They were united in disapproving of his use of cannabis.

Does not sound like a deprived background to me!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 08:13:28 PM
Let me explain that part for you because you clearly are failing to understand. The appeal courts say he committed the crime, he could not blame his family life for the crime he allegedly committed because he had a privileged background... Making sense now?

You've done it again!  *&^^&

No where does it say he could not

Same as you did here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=66.msg489922#msg489922  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 08:15:22 PM
You've done it again!  *&^^&

No where does it say he could not

I added emphasis, like dumbed it down, so you could understand!  @)(++(* Those were my words, not the judgments!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
 Unlike many young people convicted of such crimes of violence, he is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background. As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation.

So I will explain again, there are many people who could attribute violence to a deprived background but Luke was UNABLE to do this because he had enjoyed a "privileged background". You can tell English Lit was not exactly your forte.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 08:36:05 PM
"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?

Was it possible Luke Mitchell feared what the psychiatrist would conclude?

That's not entirely true is it? His school had concerns.

Didn't he refuse to see the psychiatrist!

"The prosecution highlighted his knife-carrying and cannabis smoking, and claimed he had told another teenager that he knew the way "to slit someone's throat"

"Left largely to his own devices he became defiant, violent and brooding with an unhealthy fascination with knives, the occult and drugs. He was first brought to the attention of the mental health profession aged just 11, following a fight at King’s Park Primary in Dalkeith. Although the incident was just a minor skirmish with another pupil, Mitchell’s attitude was sufficiently troublesome to warrant a referral to a school psychiatrist. However, there appears to have been little further action taken by the education authorities or his parents to curb his behaviour. When he was 12 he threatened his then girlfriend with a knife because she refused to have sex with him. The incidents went on. When he moved to St David’s High, a music teacher found him trying to throttle another pupil and he was sent to an educational psychologist. He refused the expert’s help. Instead Mitchell became a rebellious, mysterious teenager who was heavily into cannabis and supplied his Goth friends with the drug

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861

"Left to his own devices - wonder when that was? He cooked the family dinner on weekdays, helped out at his mum's business, went to cadets and the riding stables (where his mum also went) and his dad's at the weekend. Didn't skip school - not a lot of time left for his "own devices" really!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 08:37:24 PM
No, this is YOUR interpretation of what the appeal judges concluded.

 @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 08:38:49 PM
"Left to his own devices - wonder when that was? He cooked the family dinner on weekdays, helped out at his mum's business, went to cadets and the riding stables (where his mum also went) and his dad's at the weekend. Didn't skip school - not a lot of time left for his "own devices" really!

Of course the newspapers are going to put a prejudicial spin on things, the boring truth would never sell.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 08:41:32 PM
"Just because I am more violent than others and cut myself, does that justify some pompous git of a teacher to refer me to a psychiatrist?

Was it possible Luke Mitchell feared what the psychiatrist would conclude?

That's not entirely true is it? His school had concerns.

Didn't he refuse to see the psychiatrist!

"The prosecution highlighted his knife-carrying and cannabis smoking, and claimed he had told another teenager that he knew the way "to slit someone's throat"

"Left largely to his own devices he became defiant, violent and brooding with an unhealthy fascination with knives, the occult and drugs. He was first brought to the attention of the mental health profession aged just 11, following a fight at King’s Park Primary in Dalkeith. Although the incident was just a minor skirmish with another pupil, Mitchell’s attitude was sufficiently troublesome to warrant a referral to a school psychiatrist. However, there appears to have been little further action taken by the education authorities or his parents to curb his behaviour. When he was 12 he threatened his then girlfriend with a knife because she refused to have sex with him. The incidents went on. When he moved to St David’s High, a music teacher found him trying to throttle another pupil and he was sent to an educational psychologist. He refused the expert’s help. Instead Mitchell became a rebellious, mysterious teenager who was heavily into cannabis and supplied his Goth friends with the drug

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861


The "sufficiently troublesome attitude" was because Luke objected to being told he should have told a teacher about the other boy hitting him, rather than hitting back. At high school, he wasn't "trying to throttle" someone - he and the other boy were grappling, again after the other boy started the fight
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 08:54:45 PM
In 4 days he'd produced 20 bottles of urine? Really?

no official confirmation that there was any such number of bottles.  On the 15th July there were 12 bottles taken by the FLO. Who knows the Police could have just come up with that number like they did with a lot of things connected to Luke!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 08:57:43 PM
Unlike many young people convicted of such crimes of violence, he is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background. As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation.

So I will explain again, there are many people who could attribute violence to a deprived background but Luke was UNABLE to do this because he had enjoyed a "privileged background". You can tell English Lit was not exactly your forte.

Clear simple and to the point.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:04:48 PM
Clear simple and to the point.

It is starting to get as frustrating as the Tabak thread.
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:12:05 PM
I echo your thoughts justsaying
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:14:35 PM
Unlike many young people convicted of such crimes of violence, he is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background. As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation.

So I will explain again, there are many people who could attribute violence to a deprived background but Luke was UNABLE to do this because he had enjoyed a "privileged background". You can tell English Lit was not exactly your forte.

 *&^^&

Because 99% of it is -  I put up a link to an appeal judgment which proves you are wrong about Luke's home life, clearly hanging on hearsay regarding the relationship with his mother and totally diagnosing him yourself when a psychiatrist stated otherwise - what part of that is not the truth? When you are wrong you are wrong, there is no sugar-coating it!

I do not get your point - it was you who was saying things to the contrary which was the reason I pointed that appeal out. It was you who said he had a dysfunctional family life and you who said he had mental issues - your own post above proves you wrong  *%87

You did not get my point so you made one up to suit your agenda  *&^^&

APPEAL AGAINST SENTENCE

2 February 2011
[26] I regret that I am unable to agree with the conclusion of your Lordship in the chair that this appeal should be allowed and that the punishment part of the sentence should be fixed at 15 years.
[27] While I understand and share your Lordship's obvious concerns about a sentence requiring a young person to spend his youth and the early part of his adult life in custody before he can even apply for parole, such concerns arise in every case in which a teenager commits murder by stabbing his victim and the punishment part of his sentence is fixed at 16 years or more. That, however, is the consequence of the guidance provided to sentencers by the court in HMA v Boyle, at paragraph [16] of its opinion quoted by your Lordship. In that part of its opinion the court recognised concerns about a particular problem associated with knife crime in Scotland and was advocating a punishment part of at least (my emphasis) 16 years in such cases, other than in exceptional circumstances. The court also recognised that the punishment part might be significantly longer depending upon the circumstances of the case. I agree with your Lordship that sentencing guidelines are subject always to the discretion of the sentencing judge. They provide a structure for judicial discretion but should not lead to a mechanistic approach to sentencing. However, the sentencing judge retains a responsibility for determining the appropriate sentence in any case. (HMA v Boyle; HMA v Mackenzie 1990 JC 62; HMA v Graham 2010 HJAC 50). Having said that, it is also desirable and in the public interest, as well as the interest of everyone involved in the sentencing process, that there should be consistency in sentencing.
[28] If the guidelines in HMA v Boyle are followed, the result is likely to be that a punishment part of 16 years is the norm or starting-point for determining the punishment part in all but the most exceptional of cases of murder by stabbing. It is common for such murders to be committed by young people often in the context of what may be described as a "gang culture". I do not consider that the youth of the appellant in this case merits a departure from the starting-point of 16 years. There is no suggestion that he was unaware of the dangers associated with knives, in which he had an interest. Unlike many young people convicted of such crimes of violence, he is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background. As your Lordship has observed, the appellant has enjoyed a privileged background with the active support of both of his parents despite their separation. (para [9]).
[29] He does not suffer from mental disorder and there was no evidence of emotional maladjustment or childhood abuse or of significant abnormality of mind at the time of the murder. (para [12]). In all the circumstances it is appropriate to take 16 years as a starting point.

[30] The question then becomes whether 16 years is the appropriate period or whether the circumstances merit the imposition of a significantly longer period. The circumstances of the murder have been narrated by your Lordship, including the nature and extent of the injuries inflicted upon his 14 year old victim by the appellant (para [5]). It is unnecessary for me to dwell upon them. Suffice it to say that this was a sustained, prolonged and brutal attack upon an innocent young girl involving extensive blunt force injury, mechanical strangulation, multiple cuts and penetrating injuries as well as extensive post mortem mutilation. This clearly merits a significantly longer period as a punishment part than a case of murder involving a single stab wound or even two or three stab wounds. Having considered the nature and extent of the attack and the consequential injuries inflicted upon the deceased before and after death, I am unable to conclude that the sentencing judge erred in the exercise of his discretion when he selected a period of 20 years. The period might well be severe but it cannot be categorised as excessive.
[31] I have also considered your Lordship's analysis of other cases resulting in the conclusion that the sentencing judge erred when he considered that a longer period would have been appropriate in the case of an adult offender. Regrettably I cannot agree. In Walker v HMA the court recognised the difficulty of undertaking a comparative exercise involving cases which had not been the subject of consideration by the appeal court, as well as the general difficulty in comparing the nature and gravity of one case with another. (para. [9]). Fraser v HMA and Al-Megrahi v HMA both fall into the former category. Moreover, in Al-Megrahi there was an outstanding Crown appeal against an alleged unduly lenient sentence when Al-Megrahi was released from custody by the Executive. There is, in my opinion, the additional difficulty associated with a comparative exercise that even in those cases considered by the appeal court taken as comparators, the court was concerned with the question whether a sentence imposed was excessive. That was the case in Cowie v HMA. The court did not specify the range available to the sentencer but merely concluded that the sentence imposed was entirely appropriate to the crime and was not excessive.
[32] Sentencing is not an exact science and in almost every case there will be a range within which the sentencer may exercise his or her discretion in determining the appropriate sentence. For that reason different sentencers may reach a different view but as long as the resulting sentence falls within the appropriate range of discretion it cannot be said to be excessive. If an adult had attacked the 14 year old in this case in the manner described, a much longer period than 20 years would, in my view, have been within the range of discretion available to the sentencing judge. I am reinforced in that view by what appears to be a recent trend of imposing longer periods as punishment parts of life sentences. The most recent example is Smith v HMA 2010 HCJAC 118 in which the court concluded that a punishment part of 32 years, restricted from 35 years to reflect an early plea of guilty, was not excessive. Although that case involved the murder of two people, one of whom was a child, nevertheless it confirms that in some cases a period in excess of 30 years is an appropriate period for a punishment part. While I do not consider that such cases will or should be confined to multiple murders, it is not possible or appropriate to enumerate all the circumstances in which such a sentence may be appropriate. Suffice it to say that the determination of the appropriate period will depend upon a variety of factors, one of which will be the nature, circumstances and severity of the attack resulting in the death of the victim.
[33] In all the circumstances I would refuse this appeal

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=26ab8aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[34] I too regret that I am unable to agree with the conclusion of your Lordship in the chair that this appeal should be allowed and that the punishment part should be fixed at 15 years.
[35] Reference has been made by your Lordship to the guidance provided to sentencers by the court in HMA v Boyle. That Full Bench decision establishes (para [16]) that other than in exceptional circumstances, a punishment part of at least sixteen years, and possibly significant longer, might be expected for murders committed by the use of a knife. The court observed that at the present time knife crime is a scourge in the Scottish community. It is of course a regrettable fact of daily life in our criminal courts that much of that knife crime is committed by young offenders.
[36] Your Lordship has analysed other cases and come to the conclusion that had the present case involved an adult offender, the punishment part would not have been more than 20 years. I regret I cannot agree. The suggestion that 30 years is to be seen as a virtual maximum punishment part is now specifically disapproved (para [13] of Boyle). An appeal against a punishment period of 32 years, restricted from 35 years for the early plea, for the double murder of a mother and her daughter has since been refused by the court in the case of Smith v HMA 2010 HCJAC 118.
[37] Every case of murder is distinguished by its own particular facts and circumstances. It is extremely difficult to compare in any meaningful way the circumstances and gravity of one case with those of another. There can be no doubt that the sentencing judge was correct to regard this as a very serious crime. It involved the repeated use of a knife and a sustained and brutal attack on a trusting and defenceless fourteen year old girl who suffered a horrible death and whose body was thereafter extensively mutilated. I do not consider that he can be said to have erred in considering that a longer period would have been appropriate for this crime had it been committed by an adult offender.
[38] I too understand and share your Lordship's concerns about the imposition of a sentence requiring a young person to remain in custody without prospect of release for a very long period. Nevertheless, having regard to the guidance provided by the court in Boyle and the grave nature of this crime, I find I am unable to conclude that the punishment period chosen was outwith the reasonable range available to the sentencing judge.
[39] In all the circumstances I too would refuse the appeal


The judgement states "there was no evidence - doesn't mean there wasn't any!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:19:31 PM
getting a bit bored of the huge repost when there really isnt any point to them
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:25:07 PM
*&^^&

You did not get my point so you made one up to suit your agenda  *&^^&

No Stephanie, you were wrong again and could not accept it. Why don't you ask someone else if they understand the judgment? It makes perfect sense - ask yourself this, why would they say he enjoyed a privileged life in the same paragraph and also in earlier paragraphs? No-where in that judgment does it say otherwise!

Keep trying!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:29:21 PM

The judgement states "there was no evidence - doesn't mean there wasn't any!

 @)(++(*  You are relentless, the reports all stated he had a normal life Stephanie, stop cherry-picking!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:31:38 PM
No Stephanie, you were wrong again and could not accept it. Why don't you ask someone else if they understand the judgment? It makes perfect sense - ask yourself this, why would they say he enjoyed a privileged life in the same paragraph and also in earlier paragraphs? No-where in that judgment does it say otherwise!

Keep trying!

I've never discussed anything to do with Luke Mitchell having had or not had a privileged life!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:33:20 PM
@)(++(*  You are relentless, the reports all stated he had a normal life Stephanie, stop cherry-picking!

 *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:34:40 PM
I've never discussed anything to do with Luke Mitchell having had or not had a privileged life!

You have alleged numerous times that Luke did not lead a normal life, had mental issues and that his relationship with his mother was abnormal - that judgment clearly states otherwise.  *&^^&
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:35:22 PM
*&^^&

 &^^&*
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
I've never discussed anything to do with Luke Mitchell having had or not had a privileged life!
[/quote

So what actual point were you making in your relentless posts?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:38:51 PM
No Stephanie, you were wrong again and could not accept it. Why don't you ask someone else if they understand the judgment? It makes perfect sense - ask yourself this, why would they say he enjoyed a privileged life in the same paragraph and also in earlier paragraphs? No-where in that judgment does it say otherwise!

Keep trying!

Re post where I have ever debated whether or not Mitchell had a privileged life!

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
Re post where I have ever debated whether or not Mitchell had a privileged life!

If you arent gonna post with clarity why bother. Its not a game. You talk to justsaying like they have wronged you personally and they have something to prove to YOU
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:40:37 PM
"He is unable to attribute his violent behaviour to a deprived background

Unable
/ʌnˈeɪb(ə)l/Submit
adjective
lacking the skill, means, or opportunity to do something.
"she was unable to conceal her surprise"
synonyms:   not able, powerless, impotent, not up/equal to, at a loss, inadequate, ineffectual, incompetent, unfit, unfitted, unqualified

No you haven't discussed it have you - so what was the point you were making here  *%87
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:41:51 PM
You have alleged numerous times that Luke did not lead a normal life, had mental issues and that his relationship with his mother was abnormal - that judgment clearly states otherwise.  *&^^&

Post an example
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:43:12 PM
If you arent gonna post with clarity why bother. Its not a game. You talk to justsaying like they has wronged you personally and they have something to prove to YOU

Oh she may not have used the word "privileged" but she has certainly questioned his background and made numerous unfounded allegations - she needs to go and read that appeal in full because what she has said previously just does not stand up!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:44:31 PM
again...  8@??)(
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 09:46:40 PM
Post an example

I have many times today - why should I keep doing it? You stated he was a psychopath, the appeal judgment states otherwise! You stated he did not have a normal life, the appeal judgment states otherwise, just because I am not quoting you (because I refuse to waste my time going back through the copious amount of posts) does not mean you did not say it - making yourself look a tad pathetic now!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: jixy on November 13, 2018, 09:48:45 PM
once again the spot light is going one way. I prefer to talk about Luke!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 09:54:25 PM
Btw I don't believe Luke Mitchell had a privileged life!

There appears to have been nothing.advantageous to the life he was living before he was arrested.

Unless of course you class drug dealing at 14 years of age showed otherwise?

Didn't he have a drug debt?

Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: Nicholas on November 13, 2018, 10:00:25 PM
Why did Mitchell self harm?

Why did his mother (and father) allow him to get a tattoo whilst he was underage?
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 2018, 10:01:18 PM
Btw I don't believe Luke Mitchell had a privileged life!

There appears to have been nothing.advantageous to the life he was living before he was arrested.

Unless of course you class drug dealing at 14 years of age showed otherwise?

Didn't he have a drug debt?

We know you do not, your awful interpretation of the judgment tells us that!

[9] The appellant has no previous convictions. His parents separated when he was 11 years old. He lived with his mother and his older brother, and spent time with his father at weekends. The reports available to the trial judge suggested that the appellant had a fairly comfortable home life, and had hobbies such as horse-riding and motorcycling. Despite their separation, both parents appear to have taken part in his upbringing. They were united in disapproving of his use of cannabis.

He seems to have led a better life than most, but you keep believing the spin the newspapers put on it.

Who did you owe the debt too? Wouldn't happen to be Jodi's relative would it?


Goodnight Stephanie, sweet dreams!
Title: Re: Is Luke Mitchell guilty - your views
Post by: justsaying on November 13, 201