UK Justice Forum

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 12:53:29 PM

Title: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 12:53:29 PM
BTW I started this thread to provide a place to discuss the latest news stories appearing in the media.


3779

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 02:07:54 PM
I started this thread to provide a place to discuss the latest news stories appearing in the media.

Good idea, Pegasus.

The "news" on the "news" thread is rarely more than speculation anyway.

I don't have an opinion on the specific question you raised as the "news" often appears to be unreliable.

What does make sense to me is a methodical process of analysing information, identifying loose ends and exploring them in further detail.

The key issue seems to be a valid avenue to explore, although it may not lead anywhere.

No one knows at this point:

- whether keys actually disappeared or not;

- nor for how long if they did;

- nor in whose possession they may have been if they were;

- nor when a key to 5A specifically may have disappeared or been lost;

- nor whether keys could have been temporarily been taken from someone else's possession (hiding place) without them realising it.

Although such keys appear unusual for the UK, I'm told they are standard in Portugal. If that's the case, any corner kiosk / hardware shop could have made a duplicate and the original replaced within a very short space of time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 02:40:25 PM
@carana yes I was just pointing out the relevance of witness TS on the speculative list may be the supposed missing keys as he was the one the newspaper "doorstepped" about the keys.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 03:18:15 PM
Good idea, Pegasus.

The "news" on the "news" thread is rarely more than speculation anyway.

I don't have an opinion on the specific question you raised as the "news" often appears to be unreliable.

What does make sense to me is a methodical process of analysing information, identifying loose ends and exploring them in further detail.

The key issue seems to be a valid avenue to explore, although it may not lead anywhere.

No one knows at this point:

- whether keys actually disappeared or not;

- nor for how long if they did;

- nor in whose possession they may have been if they were;

- nor when a key to 5A specifically may have disappeared or been lost;

- nor whether keys could have been temporarily been taken from someone else's possession (hiding place) without them realising it.

Although such keys appear unusual for the UK, I'm told they are standard in Portugal. If that's the case, any corner kiosk / hardware shop could have made a duplicate and the original replaced within a very short space of time.
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'.
One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 07, 2014, 04:14:37 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'.
One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.

I don't think you should assume you know better than SY...It may be the searches came first to find possible evidence
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'.
One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.

If there had been agreement about a joint investigation team (JIT), progress would presumably have been much faster as every detail wouldn't have had to be subject to an excruciatingly long legal process.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 04:30:48 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files.
I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews.
IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 04:40:59 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files.
I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews.
IMO

The two events may have been (largely) unrelated strands.

The ground search may have been routine, or it may have been intelligence-based. If it was intelligence-based and  had led to the discovery of evidence, that would have provided more pertinent questions to ask of potential suspects.

Or, even more mundanely, the timing may have been scheduled according to when it was feasible to gather together all the people necessary to conduct it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 04:43:14 PM
Perhaps we shall never know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 07, 2014, 04:50:42 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files.
I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews.
IMO

Christine Callan appears to be an associate of Michael Green so perhaps she is his alibi ? The two maintance men Luis Antonio and Mario Marreiros had a legitimate reason to be in 5a and for their fingerprints and even DNA to be there. It could also be argued that if they were looking into 5a, as seen by Miss Silence, that wouldn't be at all suspicious. Antonio Luis, Robert Murat and Michaela Walchzuch where included because they provided an alibi for each other and Joaquim Marques is only on the list, as far as I can see, because he was fingered as Cooperman.

Is this questioning about eliminating individuals who may be used by the defence in any future trial ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 05:13:40 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'.
One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.

I agree, all of this should have been carried out long ago ... 2007 to be precise. 

There is plenty of information in the files about Robert Murat's phone usage and that of Madeleine's parents and their friends and rightly so. 
However it must surely be accepted that it was a mistake to concentrate all resources to that and neglect other phone traffic in PDL.  It took Operation Grange to undertake that diligence of scrutinising and analysing the phone triangulations which indicated other persons of interest.

That there are so many loose ends and witnesses to be interviewed and re-interviewed does indicate historical neglect.
Operation Grange had in effect to go back to square one. 

In the witness statements given by these people to the PJ ...  was anyone asked about phone calls ... was their given location checked against these calls?  Apparently not.  Otherwise SY would not be having to play catch up now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 05:25:39 PM
It will be interesting to see if  the analysis of  the phone traffic proves to be of any use.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 05:26:19 PM
Christine Callan appears to be an associate of Michael Green so perhaps she is his alibi ? The two maintance men Luis Antonio and Mario Marreiros had a legitimate reason to be in 5a and for their fingerprints and even DNA to be there. It could also be argued that if they were looking into 5a, as seen by Miss Silence, that wouldn't be at all suspicious. Antonio Luis, Robert Murat and Michaela Walchzuch where included because they provided an alibi for each other and Joaquim Marques is only on the list, as far as I can see, because he was fingered as Cooperman.

Is this questioning about eliminating individuals who may be used by the defence in any future trial ?

What fingerprints and DNA in 5A are associated with any of these people??

Unless there is a different Luis Antonio in the files, the only one I've seen is the swimming pool entrepreneur.

The questions asked at the time of Mario-the-laundry-man are so vague, it's not clear where he actually picked the laundry up from. Did he go into each of the flats to pick it up? How likely is that? Did the cleaning ladies dump it outside? Down the stairwell for central collection?

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 05:36:31 PM
It will be interesting to see if  the analysis of  the phone traffic proves to be of any use.

Even if it does not point to a perpetrator it is a line of investigation which should have been followed in 2007.

Similarly it should not have been left to Operation Grange to attempt to ascertain which of the flats in the immediate blocks were occupied prior to Madeleine's disappearance, by whom and which had been illegally sub-let ... that is a diligence which should have been carried out in 2007.

All investigation is a process of elimination.  However if no-one bothers to investigate ... nothing will be found ... and that can only be of benefit to criminals.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 05:41:17 PM
Even if it does not point to a perpetrator it is a line of investigation which should have been followed in 2007.

Similarly it should not have been left to Operation Grange to attempt to ascertain which of the flats in the immediate blocks were occupied prior to Madeleine's disappearance, by whom and which had been illegally sub-let ... that is a diligence which should have been carried out in 2007.

All investigation is a process of elimination.  However if no-one bothers to investigate ... nothing will be found ... and that can only be of benefit to criminals.

Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 07, 2014, 05:50:29 PM
Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.
Fruitless or not, it should have been done back then - do you agree?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 05:54:20 PM
Yes.
Perhaps it was covered back then, though clearly SY want to investigate to their own satisfaction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 06:05:17 PM
Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.

It might have borne fruit if it had been thoroughly examined at the time.

Now, time is far less on Madeleine's side than on that of any perpretator.

However, even now, to take that one example, what if an abode (holiday flat or any other type) had been sub-let to someone who was wanted by the police for a serious offence? The offence in question may not have any connection to Madeleine, but it may still be a lead to pursue, particularly if combined with other evidence that the police may have gathered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 06:22:02 PM
Yes.
Perhaps it was covered back then, though clearly SY want to investigate to their own satisfaction.

I think having to go back to the beginning was probably something SY could well have done without.

I don't think it was covered back in 2007 and I am sure that if it had been SY would have been satisfied just to take it from there and proceed to areas which came to light only after the case was archived.

The tragedy is ALL the groundwork had been meticulously carried out by the PJ in 2007.  The evidence just wasn't followed through either to rule in or to rule out. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 06:36:35 PM
It might have borne fruit if it had been thoroughly examined at the time.

Now, time is far less on Madeleine's side than on that of any perpretator.


However, even now, to take that one example, what if an abode (holiday flat or any other type) had been sub-let to someone who was wanted by the police for a serious offence? The offence in question may not have any connection to Madeleine, but it may still be a lead to pursue, particularly if combined with other evidence that the police may have gathered.

I would agree with that, though I think time  never was on Madeleine's side and she was dead before the evening was over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 07, 2014, 07:43:35 PM

What fingerprints and DNA in 5A are associated with any of these people??


Unless there is a different Luis Antonio in the files, the only one I've seen is the swimming pool entrepreneur.


The questions asked at the time of Mario-the-laundry-man are so vague, it's not clear where he actually picked the laundry up from. Did he go into each of the flats to pick it up? How likely is that? Did the cleaning ladies dump it outside? Down the stairwell for central collection?




I think Faith has the names wrong.


The only other fingerprint found besides Kates was Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
I find the lack of prints quite disturbing, when so many people searched around the apartment.


The two handymen that went to 5A on the 1st May were
Mario Domingos Moreira (not Mario Fernando Madeira Marreiros Laundry man)
And Luis Ferro.
Luis Antonio was Michaela's husband
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 07, 2014, 07:45:15 PM
I think having to go back to the beginning was probably something SY could well have done without.

I don't think it was covered back in 2007 and I am sure that if it had been SY would have been satisfied just to take it from there and proceed to areas which came to light only after the case was archived.

The tragedy is ALL the groundwork had been meticulously carried out by the PJ in 2007.  The evidence just wasn't followed through either to rule in or to rule out.

So if the PJ didn't investigate phone records, why did they collect them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 07, 2014, 07:53:07 PM



I think Faith has the names wrong.


The only other fingerprint found besides Kates was Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
I find the lack of prints quite disturbing, when so many people searched around the apartment.


The two handymen that went to 5A on the 1st May were
Mario Domingos Moreira (not Mario Fernando Madeira Marreiros Laundry man)
And Luis Ferro.
Luis Antonio was Michaela's husband

Apologies you are of course correct.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 08:23:40 PM
So if the PJ didn't investigate phone records, why did they collect them?

I am not certain about this ... so stand to be corrected ... I believe it was British technicians who collected the technical information and passed it to the PJ.  Whether that was at the behest of Leicestershire Police or the PJ I have no idea.

The PJ thoroughly scrutinised the phone records of Mr Murat, the Drs McCann and their friends ... that they went no further is not a question for me ... I am equally in the dark about that as you are.   
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 07, 2014, 10:30:30 PM
I would agree with that, though I think time  never was on Madeleine's side and she was dead before the evening was over.

Someone could have said the same for Natascha Kampusch.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 11:00:41 PM
Someone could have said the same for Natascha Kampusch.

Or quite a few others...

There's certainly no forensic evidence that she was even injured in that flat, let alone died.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 12:12:10 AM
Been doing a little reading about the career of DCI Nicola Wall;  I think she will be an excellent replacement for DCI Redwood.

25 years service at the Met eight of which are as a DCI are not to be sniffed at.
I found it interesting that she is a hostage and crisis negotiator as well as head of the Murder Investigation Team in west London.

I doubt if she will be able to give an introductory interview, which is a pity; but I think she will be a no nonsense lady.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 08, 2014, 12:40:40 AM
I don't know why but I've got a feeling a really big news on this case is about to come out. Does anyone else have this feeling?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 08, 2014, 12:52:16 AM
I don't know why but I've got a feeling a really big news on this case is about to come out. Does anyone else have this feeling?

Yes, with a few surprises too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 01:29:48 AM
Yes, with a few surprises too.

I think the case is going to be solved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 08, 2014, 04:53:01 AM
So if the PJ didn't investigate phone records, why did they collect them?

Such a silly question.  Why did they not investigate?  Don't you think?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 08, 2014, 07:20:39 AM
Such a silly question.  Why did they not investigate?  Don't you think?

It's not a silly question. There is no evidence they didn't investigate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 08, 2014, 07:23:57 AM
It's not a silly question. There is no evidence they didn't investigate.

The PJ didn't have to investigate anything...they solved the case...they just didn't have any evidence and could not get a confession
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 10:38:18 AM
It's not a silly question. There is no evidence they didn't investigate.

There is substantial evidence they did investigate the phone evidence. They just didn't investigate it thoroughly enough to note the calls made by those who appear to have been petty burglars, who were in communication and who were in PDL at the appropriate time.
That the evidence was there is indisputable ... the PJ found it as did Operation Grange ... seven years down the line.

They concentrated everything on Madeleine's parents and Murat and cast the net no further.

Robert Murat and his associates were thoroughly investigated ... as an arguido that was perfectly in order.

Madeleine's parents and their friends were also scrutinised ... as the people closest to the missing child ... again a proper investigative strategy.

That a measure of cross checking was carried out is apparent from Inspector Paulo Diaz' report ...

 2.0. METHODOLOGY

a) In the first phase, we proceeded to a careful reading of the files taking notes of the elements that could contribute, in any way, to the composition of the chronograms of the facts. From that reading is clear that much of the proof is testimonial.

b) So, at this phase, we compared the declarations of the Ocean Club's employees with the phone registries of the 3 operators, to figure out if there is any incongruence between the depositions made and their presence at the place, when they claimed that they were absent from that locality.
http://madeleinemccannfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/PJ-1a-1s-Intelligence-Analysis-Report-05-02-08-PJ-Inspector-Paulo-Dias_29.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 10:59:42 AM
There is substantial evidence they did investigate the phone evidence. They just didn't investigate it thoroughly enough to note the calls made by those who appear to have been petty burglars, who were in communication and who were in PDL at the appropriate time.
That the evidence was there is indisputable ... the PJ found it as did Operation Grange ... seven years down the line.

They concentrated everything on Madeleine's parents and Murat and cast the net no further.

Robert Murat and his associates were thoroughly investigated ... as an arguido that was perfectly in order.

Madeleine's parents and their friends were also scrutinised ... as the people closest to the missing child ... again a proper investigative strategy.

That a measure of cross checking was carried out is apparent from Inspector Paulo Diaz' report ...

 2.0. METHODOLOGY

a) In the first phase, we proceeded to a careful reading of the files taking notes of the elements that could contribute, in any way, to the composition of the chronograms of the facts. From that reading is clear that much of the proof is testimonial.

b) So, at this phase, we compared the declarations of the Ocean Club's employees with the phone registries of the 3 operators, to figure out if there is any incongruence between the depositions made and their presence at the place, when they claimed that they were absent from that locality.
http://madeleinemccannfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/PJ-1a-1s-Intelligence-Analysis-Report-05-02-08-PJ-Inspector-Paulo-Dias_29.html

The petty burglar bit has been done to death.
Burglars don't nick kids nor do burglars go into kids rooms as there is usually nothing of value in there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 12:01:57 PM
The petty burglar bit has been done to death.
Burglars don't nick kids nor do burglars go into kids rooms as there is usually nothing of value in there.

Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children. 

There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. 
Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.


Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did.
Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children
http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children

All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did.
E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283

Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.

** snipped**
The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said.
The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192

The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.

 ... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 01:34:39 PM
Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children. 

There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. 
Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.


Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did.
Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children
http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children

All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did.
E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283

Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.

** snipped**
The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said.
The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192

The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.

 ... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.

Red bit:
Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion?
Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them?
I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype.
You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 02:07:35 PM
Red bit:
Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion?
Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them?
I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype.
You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.

You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.

Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.

I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 08, 2014, 02:12:33 PM
You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.

Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.

I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.

Criminals yes, nutters not necessarily...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.

Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.

I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.

Red bit:
I ask again; demonstrate where I defend them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 02:45:16 PM
Red bit:
I ask again; demonstrate where I defend them.

If you cannot understand the content of your own posts concerning your attitude to burglars who wouldn't dream of entering a child's bedroom because there is nothing of value there ... depends what value one places on a child perhaps ... or who would never harm a child ... I am afraid no demonstration of mine would suffice to educate you.

Just reread your posts ... and try to see them for what they are.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM
They are flying today 8th of December.

 http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/12/08/british-detectives-return-to-portugal-to-question-people-over-madeleine-mccann-disappearance/
They plan to stay for 3 days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 08, 2014, 04:39:59 PM
A serial burglar who broke into a woman's house in Dublin and raped her twice has been jailed for 9 years.

Gerard Kane of Dominic Street, Dun Laoghaire in Co. Dublin pleaded guilty on the 5th day of his trial to the attacks on June 11th last year.

The Central Criminal Court heard the victim was woken at 1.30am by a noise to find Mr. Kane standing in her bedroom doorway with socks on both hands carrying a hammer, screwdriver and small torch.

There are plenty more examples of burglars carrying out sexual offences...perhaps they haven't read the burglars manual

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 08, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
That's not to say that he broke in with the intent to steal anything. He may have entered with rape on his mind.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 06:26:00 PM
That's not to say that he broke in with the intent to steal anything. He may have entered with rape on his mind.

Possibly ... but only if you dismiss that he was out on bail for ... burglary ... and is described as a "serial burglar" ... surely a clue.

** snip**Garda Adam Clear told prosecuting counsel that Kane has 26 previous convictions.

These include burglary, drug possession, threats, robbery and assault.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/rapist-had-been-on-bail-for-burglary-8715/


However it seems in your lexicon that ... breaking in to rape and putting you in fear of your life ... is fine.  The archetypal burglar just burgles.

For your sake, I hope you are never in the position of encountering one of these guys in your home or getting between him and his purpose or his escape ... and I hope you do not have a vulnerable person under your roof to worry about.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 08, 2014, 06:38:36 PM
Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children. 

There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. 
Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.


Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did.
Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children
http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children

All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did.
E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283

Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.

** snipped**
The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said.
The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192

The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.

 ... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.

Great post.  Shame slippery old Alice has chosen to ignore the main thrust of your point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 08, 2014, 06:40:46 PM
Possibly ... but only if you dismiss that he was out on bail for ... burglary ... and is described as a "serial burglar" ... surely a clue.

** snip**Garda Adam Clear told prosecuting counsel that Kane has 26 previous convictions.

These include burglary, drug possession, threats, robbery and assault.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/rapist-had-been-on-bail-for-burglary-8715/


However it seems in your lexicon that ... breaking in to rape and putting you in fear of your life ... is fine.  The archetypal burglar just burgles.

For your sake, I hope you are never in the position of encountering one of these guys in your home or getting between him and his purpose or his escape ... and I hope you do not have a vulnerable person under your roof to worry about.

What a strange and twisted mind you must have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 08, 2014, 06:41:39 PM
Red bit:
Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion?
Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them?
I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype.
You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.
If a person who enters a property illegally and walks out with a child isn't "the odd nutter", how else would you describe him / her?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 07:02:10 PM
What a strange and twisted mind you must have.

 I do not attempt to excuse burglary or law breaking of any sort ... what is your excuse?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 09, 2014, 01:22:00 PM

There has been some speculation that DCI Redwood has retired in despair.  Nothing could be further from the truth.    It has been on the cards right from the beginning as in common with others on the team all were appointed in the knowledge that they would be eligible at some point in what they knew was going to be a long haul.
By staggering redundancy payments it probably helped in the management of resources elsewhere in the Met.

**snip**
Since then no police force has been actively looking for the child.

But last week, it was announced that Scotland Yard would reopen the search, a move that led to criticism that officers’ valuable time would be diverted away from other cases.

A police source said that the team of 30 Scotland Yard officers would in part be drawn from those who were due to leave the force through redundancy or retirement.

One of the major difficulties — and expenses — that detectives will face is that much of the material in the investigation will require translation from Portuguese, the source said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8519870/Madeleine-McCann-30-Metropolitan-Police-detectives-to-search-for-missing-girl.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 09, 2014, 03:40:53 PM
Great post.  Shame slippery old Alice has chosen to ignore the main thrust of your point.
Coming from you Alf bo that is rare praise indeed. I shall cherish it alongside being referred to as "a fly b'stard" by a weegie. Cool man  8(>(( keep em coming. It shows more class than insinuating people are pedalos.  8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 04:11:32 PM
IMO there were two stairwell sightings (a) evening 2nd by witness MM (on purported list), (b) evening 3rd by witness BS (not on purported list).

TS (on purported list) was associated by a UK paper (IMO based on speaking with BS) to supposed lost keys.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 06:38:15 PM
Of course he's gonna say that in early days. He had his business to protect..
There is a video available of JH stating there was no evidence of forced entry.
I watched and listened and it sounds to me like it is his honest observation of the facts.
 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 09, 2014, 06:50:08 PM
There is a video available of JH stating there was no evidence of forced entry.
I watched and listened and it sounds to me like it is his honest observation of the facts.

Maybe so ... however I doubt very much his qualification to decide whether or not an abduction had taken place. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 09, 2014, 07:58:01 PM
Now who said this I wonder.

' “The total number of documents we have to go through is 39,148, of which we have processed 21,614 so far”. '
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 09, 2014, 08:03:25 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2866881/11-people-quizzed-Madeleine-McCann-disappearance-include-Robert-Murat-cleared-wrongdoing-wife.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 09, 2014, 10:36:53 PM
Source: News of the World, 27th January 2008

Gail insisted: "I know with all my heart that Marques definitely was NOT the guy I saw three times in Praia de Luz. That man was not the guy in my drawing".

28th January 2008

The Sun

McCann cops to quiz lookalike  

By GARY O’SHEA
in Praia da Luz

Detectives are to quiz a drifter who looks uncannily like a mystery suspect in Maddie McCann’s disappearance.

Joaquim Agostinho, 42, denies he is the creepy man depicted in a sketch issued by parents Kate and Gerry McCann.

But Metodo 3, the Spanish private investigators hired by the McCanns, are taking the possibility seriously.

The artist's impression was based on a description by tourist Gail Cooper of a man she saw lurking near kids in Praia da Luz, Portugal, before Maddie, four, disappeared.

A source close to Metodo 3 said: ''We are going to be talking to this man as a priority, to establish if he is the one Mrs Cooper saw.''

When shown a photo of Agostinho, Gail, 50, of Newark, Notts, gasped: ''He’s the spitting image of the man I saw three times at the resort. It’s deeply shocking to see my drawing come to life.''

Unkempt Agostinho lives on disability benefit in Altura, 87 miles east of Praia da Luz.

He said: ''People will claim the crazy guy is me — but I don't even know where that Praia da Luz place is.

''I've never been there. I can't even drive. I accept the drawing looks like me. But I did not kill Madeleine and the police haven’t spoken to me.''

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3137.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3137.0)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 09, 2014, 10:59:43 PM
28th January 2008

The Sun

McCann cops to quiz lookalike  

By GARY O’SHEA
in Praia da Luz

Detectives are to quiz a drifter who looks uncannily like a mystery suspect in Maddie McCann’s disappearance.

Joaquim Agostinho, 42, denies he is the creepy man depicted in a sketch issued by parents Kate and Gerry McCann.

But Metodo 3, the Spanish private investigators hired by the McCanns, are taking the possibility seriously.

The artist's impression was based on a description by tourist Gail Cooper of a man she saw lurking near kids in Praia da Luz, Portugal, before Maddie, four, disappeared.

A source close to Metodo 3 said: ''We are going to be talking to this man as a priority, to establish if he is the one Mrs Cooper saw.''

When shown a photo of Agostinho, Gail, 50, of Newark, Notts, gasped: ''He’s the spitting image of the man I saw three times at the resort. It’s deeply shocking to see my drawing come to life.''

Unkempt Agostinho lives on disability benefit in Altura, 87 miles east of Praia da Luz.

He said: ''People will claim the crazy guy is me — but I don't even know where that Praia da Luz place is.

''I've never been there. I can't even drive. I accept the drawing looks like me. But I did not kill Madeleine and the police haven’t spoken to me.''

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3137.0 (http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3137.0)

I thought it was crecheman that she saw walking by the beach? How many suspects did this witness see?

Mrs Cooper first spotted the man on the beach at Praia da Luz on April 20 at about 1pm when she went for lunch with friends at the Paraiso Restaurant.
 
She said: "He was wandering about on the beach alone even though it was pouring down with rain. There wasn't another soul about. I watched him for a few minutes before I went back to chatting to my friends."

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/SundayExpress16052010c.jpg)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Moderator on December 09, 2014, 11:05:36 PM
By the looks of it things are beginning to heat up in PdL.  Members are asked to please refrain from posting derogatory comments towards other members.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 09, 2014, 11:12:11 PM
By the looks of it things are beginning to heat up in PdL.  Members are asked to please refrain from posting derogatory comments towards other members.

Sorry.  I got carried away.  I was just about to delete it myself.  But someone beat me to it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 11:40:22 PM
A third unidentified man interviewed by police refused to talk to reporters as he arrived at Faro Police Station.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-quiz-rapist-4779612?
Thanks Vixte, any idea who this is?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 09, 2014, 11:48:17 PM
Thanks Vixte, any idea who this is?

I am not sure but why there are no photos of this person? It is strange.
They did photograph Mario, the laundy man and he seemed to be joking with the reporters.
Maybe the person asked to be made arguido and is after that covered with secrecy?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 11:56:26 PM
I am not sure but why there are no photos of this person? It is strange.
They did photograph Mario, the laundy man and he seemed to be joking with the reporters.
Maybe the person asked to be made arguido and is after that covered with secrecy?
Possibly MG just guessing from unofficial list.
BTW if they are speaking with MM and with TS then I would think they would also speak with (as witness only) BS as he had sighting similar to MM's, and also was newspaper's source re TS/keys, all IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on December 10, 2014, 06:33:19 AM
New detective may bring fresh focus to McCann probe

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-12-09/redwood-prepares-to-step-aside-after-three-years-heading-madeleine-probe/

So after THREE YEARS where are we now.......?

How many detectives does it take to solve this case .....??

ONE lol, but he was thrown off it.....nuff said ...... cos no other detectives paid for by the McCanns or by our TAX MONEY to the tune of over TEN MILLION DOLLARS has so far solved this case.

Perhaps they should go back to the beginning..............
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 07:29:06 AM
Interesting article in the Portugal Resident

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-witness-identities-revealed-as-met-return-to-algarve
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 08:02:01 AM
Interesting article in the Portugal Resident

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-witness-identities-revealed-as-met-return-to-algarve

Ah.. masks are falling.. at least we know now who is influencing Portuguese media..

It would be better they made the businesswoman tell the 'well known' secret!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 08:07:51 AM
it is fascinating to observe that the people being questioned in Portugal
 are being done so on the basis of 'inconsistencies'; in their previous accounts of events.

Now the mccanns and associates had also 'inconsistencies' in their accounts of events as well.

Yet no indication has emerged from SY that they ever questioned the mccanns  and associates in the first place. Now why is that ?

Could it possibly be, they never were ???

Perish the thought. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 08:42:41 AM
Interesting article in the Portugal Resident

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-witness-identities-revealed-as-met-return-to-algarve
But the bottom-line is that by publishing the list people on it who are preparing to travel to Faro this week to face yet another grilling by police officers feel their privacy has been invaded.

So, the Stud Muffin is guilty of pretty much the same thing as Sky / dossier compilers who you recently likened to drug pushers I believe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 08:53:12 AM
But the bottom-line is that by publishing the list people on it who are preparing to travel to Faro this week to face yet another grilling by police officers feel their privacy has been invaded.

So, the Stud Muffin is guilty of pretty much the same thing as Sky / dossier compilers who you recently likened to drug pushers I believe.

So when were the police going to interview Brenda Leyland ?

and where did the Blacksmith obtain the list ?

Was it from SY itself ?

as to the comilers of that dossier, who clearly liased with the mccanns, let's see what happens next week. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:11:10 AM
You mean he should be on the list of 'usual suspects' whenever a crime is reported?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
You mean he should be on the list of 'usual suspects' whenever a crime is reported?

It's just a sign of desperation.

The case is going nowhere, as predicted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 09:26:13 AM
IMO you could not be more wrong about that. But back to the latest news, is there any video of a witness throwing water over a cameraman? IMO all these witnesses should have been provided by PJ/SY with privacy when attending these interviews. There must certainly have been people interviewed re this case recently in the UK they get privacy so why not witnesses in Portugal?

IMO it is only one illustration of why a joint working arrangement would have been beneficial. 

Far more discretion would have been allowed to interview witnesses with far more discretion. 

For example, the scoping exercise carried out by Operation Grange obviously involved contact with witnesses in GB (innocent-dad-man for one) but there were no letters of request to fanfare those interactions.

By the way, the water thrown was contained in a bottle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:27:08 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.

Redwood is retiring and the new  leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 09:31:25 AM
New detective may bring fresh focus to McCann probe

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-12-09/redwood-prepares-to-step-aside-after-three-years-heading-madeleine-probe/

So after THREE YEARS where are we now.......?

How many detectives does it take to solve this case .....??

ONE lol, but he was thrown off it.....nuff said ...... cos no other detectives paid for by the McCanns or by our TAX MONEY to the tune of over TEN MILLION DOLLARS has so far solved this case.

Perhaps they should go back to the beginning..............

Do get things right.

EIGHT MILLION is the figure for three years intensive work.

Maybe next time you see someone spitting chewing gum onto the street you should point out the cost to the taxpayer of SIXTY MILLION per annum to clean it off.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.

Redwood is retiring and the new  leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.
Have you got clairvoyant powers?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:42:14 AM
Have you got clairvoyant powers?
I just knew you were going to say that   @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
I just knew you were going to say that   @)(++(*
Very good.  Perhaps you could PM me Friday's Euromillions numbers later...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 09:48:45 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.

Redwood is retiring and the new  leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.

I believe everyone on that team has many years experience and will be due to retire, in fact we do not know how many have already done so.

Dream on if you think the new DCI is there to 'save face'.  She is there to crack this case and find out what happened to Madeleine McCann ... if there is evidence left after nearly eight years ... I hope it will lead to a conviction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 09:59:25 AM
I believe everyone on that team has many years experience and will be due to retire, in fact we do not know how many have already done so.

Dream on if you think the new DCI is there to 'save face'.  She is there to crack this case and find out what happened to Madeleine McCann ... if there is evidence left after nearly eight years ... I hope it will lead to a conviction.

Oh dear. &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2014, 10:01:41 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.

Today is paradox day:
Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago.
Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:07:26 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.

Today is paradox day:
Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago.
Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.

Precisely Alice.

However, as most people are aware, the trial has far more to do with trying to get more money than anything else.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:23:11 AM
Precisely Alice.

However, as most people are aware, the trial has far more to do with trying to get more money than anything else.

Destroy and ruin Amaral at any cost more like. The fund is there to destroy those who dare question the suspects version of events. Bad Karma.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:28:56 AM
Destroy and ruin Amaral at any cost more like. The fund is there to destroy those who dare question the suspects version of events. Bad Karma.

Fair point, and we know only too well how much the mccanns and their acolytes hate him.

As to the book stopping/hindering the search for Madeleine, that is the biggest load of tosh.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 10:33:24 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.

Today is paradox day:
Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago.
Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.

Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!

Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.

Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.

Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:35:41 AM
Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!

Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.

Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.

Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.

Remind me who was hiding efits of the prime suspect?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:36:06 AM
Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!

Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.

Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.

Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.

Not quite right.

The wanted a review for some time, before that 'evolved' into an investigation.

As to not wanting to find out what really happened, that could not be further from the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:37:56 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.

Today is paradox day:
Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago.
Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.

There's no paradox.  The McCanns were libelled in a book that also damaged the search for Madeleine  by propagating the lie that Madeleine was determined as dead by the first (shelved) enquiry, and her parents determined, both as the perpetrators and as the originators of a fraudulent "fund" in their dead daughter's name.

It is reasonable to speculate that had the shelved enquiry been properly led, there would have been no need of a second enquiry with Scotland Yard as key contributors. 

Good post, Brietta.

And on the efits, they were in the possession of Scotland Yard and the PJ for several years before they were released.

Ask those two police forces why the efits weren't released sooner
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 10:40:13 AM
I saw a newspaper headline today - possibly Mirror- which  said 'Maddie cops - last chance to solve mystery' ( or words to that effect).
Do they know something that the rest of us don't, or is it just their usual hyperbole?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:40:58 AM
There's no paradox.  The McCanns were libelled in a book that also damaged the search for Madeleine  by propagating the lie that Madeleine was determined as dead by the first (shelved) enquiry, and her parents determined, both as the perpetrators and as the originators of a fraudulent "fund" in their dead daughter's name.

It is reasonable to speculate that had the shelved enquiry been properly led, there would have been no need of a second enquiry with Scotland Yard as key contributors. 

Good post, Brietta.

And on the efits, they were in the possession of Scotland Yard and the PJ for several years before they were released.

Ask those two police forces why the efits weren't released sooner

but the mccanns had the e-fits first.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:44:43 AM
but the mccanns had the e-fits first.

There is not a shred of evidence to back that up.

The efits were in the possession of British and Portuguese police for several years and they chose the moment to release them publicly.

Almost certainly because the context of a live and on-going police enquiry was necessary to release them
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:46:30 AM
There is not a shred of evidence to back that up.

The efits were in the possession of British and Portuguese police for several years and they chose the moment to release them publicly.

Almost certainly because the context of a live and on-going police enquiry was necessary to release them

Rubbish.

On whose behalf were the e-fits made. ?

Just remind us.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:47:01 AM
There is not a shred of evidence to back that up.

The efits were in the possession of British and Portuguese police for several years and they chose the moment to release them publicly.

Almost certainly because the context of a live and on-going police enquiry was necessary to release them

No evidence? It was the McCanns own investigation team that produced them. They are the source of the efits.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
No evidence? It was the McCanns own investigation team that produced them. They are the source of the efits.

There was a breakdown of trust and termination of a contract.

Where is the evidence of when the McCanns were in possession of the efits?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:49:16 AM
Rubbish.

On whose behalf were the e-fits made. ?

Just remind us.

When the contract with Oakley International broke down, how did matters progress?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:49:48 AM
There was a breakdown of trust and termination of a contract.

Where is the evidence of when the McCanns were in possession of the efits?

That is easy to find out. The yard only have to ask their investigators that question.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:54:33 AM
That is easy to find out. The yard only have to ask their investigators that question.

Easy for certain people to find out, no doubt.

Either way the question is irrelevant, unless you are seriously suggesting that the McCanns should have gainsaid the police by releasing efits also in the police's possession that they (British and Portuguese) chose not to release.

There is also the question of when Martin Smith raised the efit. 

After the end of January 2008, beyond doubt, and almost certainly after the first enquiry was shelved (August 2008) and Martin Smith realised he had been wrong to suppose the man was Gerry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 11:08:57 AM
When the contract with Oakley International broke down, how did matters progress?

and correct me if I'm wrong, with evidence of course, that the mccanns weren't given the e-fits.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 11:17:41 AM
and correct me if I'm wrong, with evidence of course, that the mccanns weren't given the e-fits.

You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.

I don't need to .

I didn't employ them. The mccanns did.

Why do you like to change history ?

Hold on, I know, you are here to defend the mccanns, NO MATTER WHAT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 11:24:55 AM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..

It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..

His wife is to be questioned today.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 11:30:12 AM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..

It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..

His wife is to be questioned today.


Where did the order of play come from - anywhere reliable?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 11:36:36 AM
I saw a newspaper headline today - possibly Mirror- which  said 'Maddie cops - last chance to solve mystery' ( or words to that effect).
Do they know something that the rest of us don't, or is it just their usual hyperbole?

I think I shall probably wait for an official announcement from SY to find out exactly what is going on as they are most likely to know.

In the interim newspaper headlines are great for us to speculate and squabble over ... and aren't video reports great for showing us the calibre of at least one witness connected to Madeleine's case ... you know the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together" and MSM has told us the interesting thing about these people are that some were known to each other and in contact with each other.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 11:40:49 AM
I think I shall probably wait for an official announcement from SY to find out exactly what is going on as they are most likely to know.

In the interim newspaper headlines are great for us to speculate and squabble over ... and aren't video reports great for showing us the calibre of at least one witness connected to Madeleine's case ... you know the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together" and MSM has told us the interesting thing about these people are that some were known to each other and in contact with each other.

And the least likely to tell us, I imagine. In the meantime we are thrown back on tabloid hacks and 'sources' of dubious reliability.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 11:46:06 AM

Where did the order of play come from - anywhere reliable?

Joana Morais translated tweets from Marisa, Portuguese TV.

According to them: Murat is not going to be questioned, due to a legal barrier but his wife would be questioned.



Francisco Pagarete, Murat's lawyer, raised a legal issue, Murat might not be able to be questioned again. via @Marisa_TVI_JN  #mccann

Murat's questioning was suspended until legal issue is solved, his wife, Michaela Walczuch is being questioned. via @Marisa_TVI_JN #mccann
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 11:49:00 AM
And the least likely to tell us, I imagine. In the meantime we are thrown back on tabloid hacks and 'sources' of dubious reliability.

As you know ... they can tell us nothing ... as a result of Portuguese secrecy laws which they are certainly taking the greatest care not to breach.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2014, 12:04:09 PM
Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!

Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.

Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.

Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.

Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?

Remind us:
When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective"
What was the date the case was archived?
What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
As you know ... they can tell us nothing ... as a result of Portuguese secrecy laws which they are certainly taking the greatest care not to breach.

I believe there have been no official statements from either force, so any info is from unofficial leaks, which is something quite different.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 12:16:07 PM
You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.

Of course they were given them. They have progress meetings with their investigators. They are paying them so they want to know what they've been doing. Other efits are in their book except these ones. They've been trying to connect Tannerman and Smithman as being the same person from the beginning. The McCanns can make up their own excuses, they don't need you to be doing it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 12:37:13 PM
Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?

Remind us:
When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective"
What was the date the case was archived?
What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?

"Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?" ... Hmm, and as we have seen subsequently there was a wealth of suspects and witnesses who it seems did not fit Dr Amaral's theory. 

Cursory questioning at the time (with perhaps the exception of Malinka and Murat) allowed whatever evidence which may have been available to solve Madeleine McCann's case in 2007 ... only being looked at in 2014.

Unfortunately the original chief investigator developed his theory immediately (check his book) and ignored all other avenues of investigation or evidence in pursuit of that theory (Paiva 2010).
Monumental mistakes in any inquiry ... but particularly reprehensible when a missing child is involved.

I'm sure if you 'google' for the date of Dr Amaral's sacking, the archiving of Madeleine's case and the date of the publication of Dr Amaral's book you will find the answers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 12:46:57 PM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..

It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..

His wife is to be questioned today.

I can well understand him being wary of questioning.

I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it.  Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.

He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.

Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?

Or is he requesting arguido status once more?  Any one know?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 10, 2014, 12:53:32 PM
Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?

Remind us:
When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective"
What was the date the case was archived?
What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?


The book was published a few days after the case was archived. It's impossible that judicial secrecy wasn't broken... but that's an issue for the criminal courts to take up, if they ever get around to considering it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Victoria on December 10, 2014, 01:04:14 PM
I can well understand him being wary of questioning.

I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it.  Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.

He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.

Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?

Or is he requesting arguido status once more?  Any one know?

All seems very strange to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2014, 01:12:51 PM
"Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?" ... Hmm, and as we have seen subsequently there was a wealth of suspects and witnesses who it seems did not fit Dr Amaral's theory. 

Cursory questioning at the time (with perhaps the exception of Malinka and Murat) allowed whatever evidence which may have been available to solve Madeleine McCann's case in 2007 ... only being looked at in 2014.

Unfortunately the original chief investigator developed his theory immediately (check his book) and ignored all other avenues of investigation or evidence in pursuit of that theory (Paiva 2010).
Monumental mistakes in any inquiry ... but particularly reprehensible when a missing child is involved.

I'm sure if you 'google' for the date of Dr Amaral's sacking, the archiving of Madeleine's case and the date of the publication of Dr Amaral's book you will find the answers.

Given we cannot be certain that all documents relating to the case were released after the archiving process how can you be certain that all other avenues were ignored and by implication not investigated? Is that merely your surmise or do you have some factual basis for that opinion which you would care to share with us?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
I wonder who is the third witness from yesterday and why he hasn't been identified and other two were. Still not identified.. hmm.

Also, has Murat been spoken to today or not .. British media is reporting he has..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 04:40:21 PM
Given we cannot be certain that all documents relating to the case were released after the archiving process how can you be certain that all other avenues were ignored and by implication not investigated? Is that merely your surmise or do you have some factual basis for that opinion which you would care to share with us?

Would you care to make a statement which might be worthy of discussion then we can discuss; it seems to have escaped your notice that I am not your personal search engine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 04:53:30 PM
Would you care to make a statement which might be worthy of discussion then we can discuss; it seems to have escaped your notice that I am not your personal search engine.

And so it begins !! First the refusal to answer pertinent questions and then the 'ignore' button !!

Textbook example of how to stymie uncomfotable debate !!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
And so it begins !! First the refusal to answer pertinent questions and then the 'ignore' button !!

Textbook example of how to stymie uncomfotable debate !!

*irony klaxon*  @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 10, 2014, 05:00:01 PM
I wonder who is the third witness from yesterday and why he hasn't been identified and other two were. Still not identified.. hmm.

Also, has Murat been spoken to today or not .. British media is reporting he has..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2868478/Pictured-Former-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Robert-Murat-wife-Portuguese-police-station-interviewed-Scotland-Yard-girl-s-disappearance.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 05:25:46 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2868478/Pictured-Former-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Robert-Murat-wife-Portuguese-police-station-interviewed-Scotland-Yard-girl-s-disappearance.html

"Speaking last month before he received his official notification, he said: 'My conscience is clear and I have no problem speaking to police again.' "

Seems he was as good as his word ... I think it would have looked pretty bad if the report he would not be interviewed had proved correct.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 05:28:23 PM
*irony klaxon*  @)(++(*

There appears to be a school of thought that demanding answers to aggressive questioning passes for debate ... not in my book it don't ?>)()<
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 05:32:06 PM
I wonder who is the third witness from yesterday and why he hasn't been identified and other two were. Still not identified.. hmm.

Also, has Murat been spoken to today or not .. British media is reporting he has..
Who knows?  he may have turned up and waited with his wife while she was questioned, and they have wrongly assumed that he was also being questioned.  Would the PTnews agency spread false information about him not being interviewed today?  OK, don't answer that...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
I can well understand him being wary of questioning.

I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it.  Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.

He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.

Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?

Or is he requesting arguido status once more?  Any one know?

Probably best to wait for verifiable and reliable news ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 05:55:45 PM
*irony klaxon*  @)(++(*

You were on ignore Alfie in the vain hope that you would stop following me around the board like some latter day Marley's ghost

Obviously it didn't work !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 06:08:13 PM
I'm not sure how I would cope if I knew Faith Lilly had me on ignore.

still, I'm sure Alfred is made of more stoic stuff than me ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:11:57 PM
I'm not sure how I would cope if I knew Faith Lilly had me on ignore.

still, I'm sure Alfred is made of more stoic stuff than me ...
she loves me really you know.  I'm her second favourite stud muffin. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 10, 2014, 06:38:29 PM
Not a reason to rape anyone.. I hope you agree and with rape on his file of course he should be questioned... if not for Madeleine but for other tourist girls assaults..

I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:46:45 PM
I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.
Time to deploy the irony klaxon again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 10, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
Time to deploy the irony klaxon again.

Does the R stand for Richard?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 06:50:44 PM
Does the R stand for Richard?

Rex, I reckon ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 10, 2014, 06:52:07 PM
I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.

It seem 7 years of lynch mob mentality directed towards the McCanns has passed you by
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Does the R stand for Richard?
That's only the second time that joke has been cracked on this forum since I joined.  The old ones are the best - arf! arf!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:53:01 PM
Rex, I reckon ...
Woof!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 06:55:57 PM
Woof!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:58:19 PM
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex
8((()*/
Unfortunately it stands for Reginald but please don't tell anyone.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 07:04:58 PM
Well if it was Mr Green who wasn't named for yesterday and if it was his ex wife in the UK then it is really odd to name everyone except him..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2014, 10:39:06 AM

Sick Facebook page mocking Madeleine McCann pulled amid mass condemnation

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sick-facebook-page-mocking-madeleine-4786595?


Isn't it sad that there are members of this forum who find it acceptable to condone what most sensible people condemn.

Do they have any insight at all about what this makes them look like? (that was a rhetorical question)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg205449#msg205449
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2014, 10:42:52 AM
Sick Facebook page mocking Madeleine McCann pulled amid mass condemnation

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sick-facebook-page-mocking-madeleine-4786595?


Isn't it sad that there are members of this forum who find it acceptable to condone what most sensible people condemn.


Do they have any insight at all about what this makes them look like? (that was a rhetorical question)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg205449#msg205449


Who's condoning ?  Please tell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2014, 11:13:53 AM

Who's condoning ?  Please tell.

What a little WUM you are Jassie ... if the cap fits even if only by coincidence, try wearing it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2014, 12:22:16 PM

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg205504#msg205504

I think he must have been given assurances that he was to be questioned only as a witness.  I cannot criticise him for attending the interviews with his lawyer in attendance ... because under the circumstances I would have done exactly that ... but from the PR point of view, not necessarily a good move.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2014, 03:09:54 PM
What a little WUM you are Jassie ... if the cap fits even if only by coincidence, try wearing it.

So you are just making unsubstantiated statements.
As far as I'm aware, no one on here has condoned that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 11, 2014, 04:01:37 PM
So you are just making unsubstantiated statements.
As far as I'm aware, no one on here has condoned that.

I asked a question because I wasn't sure what the "caption" was meant to mean?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 11, 2014, 04:29:15 PM
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg205504#msg205504

I think he must have been given assurances that he was to be questioned only as a witness.  I cannot criticise him for attending the interviews with his lawyer in attendance ... because under the circumstances I would have done exactly that ... but from the PR point of view, not necessarily a good move.

However, there was nothing wrong when km had a lawyer in attendance ?

Double standards or what.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2014, 05:08:43 PM
However, there was nothing wrong when km had a lawyer in attendance ?

Double standards or what.

Did you bother to read my post???

What does "I cannot criticise him" mean to you exactly??

What exactly do you read into "I would have done exactly that"??

Please stop making such an utter idiot of yourself and read and try to comprehend what you read ... just in case you fail to get my meaning, let me make it plain

Dr KATE McCANN WAS PERFECTLY WITHIN HER RIGHTS TO BE ACCOMPANIED BY HER LAWYER AS WAS Mr MURAT.

If that is double standards to you ... I despair ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 11, 2014, 05:24:31 PM
Did you bother to read my post???

What does "I cannot criticise him" mean to you exactly??

What exactly do you read into "I would have done exactly that"??

Please stop making such an utter idiot of yourself and read and try to comprehend what you read ... just in case you fail to get my meaning, let me make it plain

Dr KATE McCANN WAS PERFECTLY WITHIN HER RIGHTS TO BE ACCOMPANIED BY HER LAWYER AS WAS Mr MURAT.

If that is double standards to you ... I despair ...

The lack of any moral standard is epitomized by those such as you.

Your only concern if for the mccanns.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2014, 05:28:41 PM
The lack of any moral standard is epitomized by those such as you.

Your only concern if for the mccanns.




I'm sure Dr Davel will be happy to give an opinion  ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 11, 2014, 05:30:07 PM

I'm sure Dr Davel will be happy to give an opinion  ?{)(**

When doesn't he. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 11, 2014, 09:33:04 PM
Strange.. Years ago I had a dream that a blond police woman found Madeleine. When I saw photo of DCI Wall it made me remember this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 12, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
... Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable, we are told, so unless they knew him well, could easily be mistaken for someone else with a passing resemblance, particularly as it was night-time.
And that is exactly what retrospectively happened.
Of all the witnesses who claim to have seen RM there that night, not a single one of them knew what he looked like.
Every one of those witnesses made the identification many days later, in retrospect, based in most cases on TV footage, its exactly like the the McCluskey and MSmith retrospective identifications done retrospectively from TV footage - rubbish.  None of them knew what he looked like at the time. These witnesses did see and in some cases speak with a bilingual man with glasses that night who was helping with translating, but it was certainly not RM. Read DP rog, he says he thinks the translatorman he spoke with that night may have been RM, but is not sure, it could have been someone else. (That is why he did not fly out to testify with FP RO ROB).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 12, 2014, 06:16:25 PM
Strange.. Years ago I had a dream that a blond police woman found Madeleine. When I saw photo of DCI Wall it made me remember this.
She is renowned for solving cases quickly.
IMO best to ignore all open unconcealed carrying sightings including the Smith sighting.
It is so unlikely to be the method - it's as iff every investigator has been hypnotised.
"When I click my fingers you will wake up and base your whole investigation on a single sighting which probably was not the missing person at all"
"You will forget all your experience from other cases that tell you how ridiculous that is"
"Click"
Hopefully a female brain will not be so easily hypnotised
 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2014, 06:33:43 PM
She is renowned for solving cases quickly.
IMO best to ignore all open unconcealed carrying sightings including the Smith sighting.
It is so unlikely to be the method - it's as iff every investigator has been hypnotised.
"When I click my fingers you will wake up and base your whole investigation on a single sighting which probably was not the missing person at all"
"You will forget all your experience from other cases that tell you how ridiculous that is"
"Click"
Hopefully a female brain will not be so easily hypnotised

Might depend upon what she sees enhancing her reputation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 12, 2014, 06:42:44 PM
Might depend upon what she sees enhancing her reputation.
Are you calling her professionalism into question?  What a surprise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Are you calling her professionalism into question?  What a surprise.


Note the little word 'might', dear
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2014, 06:56:34 PM

I don't think gender is the issue.

She will take her own style to the investigation and the timing is probably just about right for a fresh pair of eyes to look at the pertinent evidence which has been separated from all the files which have been amassed over the years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 12, 2014, 06:58:46 PM

Note the little word 'might', dear
Hence my use of the word "question".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2014, 06:59:14 PM
Yes, I could imagine the whole team is getting a bit jaded by now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2014, 08:00:39 PM
Yes, I could imagine the whole team is getting a bit jaded by now.

Hmmm ... I doubt it, but then we really don't know a thing about the team or how many changes there have been already in personnel.

I am very sorry to see DCI Redwood go, but there is no doubt the investigation can only benefit from the skills and expertise of his replacement who by all accounts is not a person to let the grass grow under her feet.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 12, 2014, 09:35:27 PM
I am thinking about what we are having now: 4 new arguidos and 11 new witnesses.

Is there anything that would 'connect' these arguidos and these witnesses, eh?

Amongst the arguidos is one ex OC worked so this would 'connect' the ex OC witnesses with this person but RM and his wife are 'connection' with SM?

I must say it is a puzzling and unusual combination what we have now.. and it is really strange combination of witnesses..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 01:29:01 AM
Might depend upon what she sees enhancing her reputation.
Reputation for solving cases quickly. And yes I can give you a link for that. So quickly that the media get left behind. I am seriously hoping that a female brain will discard the 7 year old brainwashed male obsession with open carrying, also the 7yr-old assumption there is more than one perp. Look at other cases and that is not usually the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on December 13, 2014, 06:50:07 AM
So the latest news is there is no news. Robert Murat was interviewed for 4 hours. No new aquidos in this 11.

I agree with Robert Murat in what he said lately the only way to solve this mystery is to bring the players back and do a real reconstruction to their timeline. Also bring back the Smiths too.

The key is in the Tapas group. The may have unwillingly seen something, or just by the way they walk etc, might trigger someones memory......who knows.

What have we so far really what are Scotland Yard working on. The bungled burglary....? Well we threw that one out way back on the Mirror forum.

First off its early in the season, so hardly anyone actually on holiday and holiday makers with families i woudlnt expect to be a target unless you were after prams and such like.

And why would a burglar kill a child and take the body away, where too? You would panic. The child wakes up you get out of there. I for one dont think the child did wake up, the twins never did even with all the people in the room afterwards.........

Anyway I hope there is some latest news soon that will close this case, but my heart is heavy....I feel there will never be justice for Madeliene. x

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 12:03:30 PM
So the latest news is there is no news. Robert Murat was interviewed for 4 hours. No new aquidos in this 11.

I agree with Robert Murat in what he said lately the only way to solve this mystery is to bring the players back and do a real reconstruction to their timeline. Also bring back the Smiths too.

The key is in the Tapas group. The may have unwillingly seen something, or just by the way they walk etc, might trigger someones memory......who knows.

What have we so far really what are Scotland Yard working on. The bungled burglary....? Well we threw that one out way back on the Mirror forum.

First off its early in the season, so hardly anyone actually on holiday and holiday makers with families i woudlnt expect to be a target unless you were after prams and such like.

And why would a burglar kill a child and take the body away, where too? You would panic. The child wakes up you get out of there. I for one dont think the child did wake up, the twins never did even with all the people in the room afterwards.........

Anyway I hope there is some latest news soon that will close this case, but my heart is heavy....I feel there will never be justice for Madeliene. x


I disagree there is no news.
We are seeing the tip of the iceberg.  There is a lot going on ... and very importantly there is a determination to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann underscoring it.

The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine. 

I cannot imagine why it is still propounded that the answer lies in a reconstitution involving seven people who neither saw (with the exception of Jane Tanner) nor had anything at all to do with the crime against Madeleine.

HOLMES will have been fed all the information and very possibly has spat out the names of the people who should be looked at as witnesses who can possibly shed more light and suspects who might have been in place to be involved. 

Which is why SY and the PJ are looking at the people they are in Portugal.  These are the ones who may hold the key.

That people who are used to using various means to invade premises illicitly, leaving no trace or as little as possible, whose favoured times of entry are just prior to holidaymakers leaving ... I refer to criminal burglars who if encountered are not very nice people ... are always ruled out of the equation on forums is quite extraordinary.
They have the skills, they have the criminal contacts.
However burglars out ... innocent holidaymakers in.  Didn't make sense in 2007 doesn't make sense today.

Maybe they weren't after prams ... or dead children.  Maybe the intended target was a beautiful blue eyed, blonde little girl.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 13, 2014, 12:27:38 PM

I disagree there is no news.
We are seeing the tip of the iceberg.  There is a lot going on ... and very importantly there is a determination to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann underscoring it.

The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine. 

I cannot imagine why it is still propounded that the answer lies in a reconstitution involving seven people who neither saw (with the exception of Jane Tanner) nor had anything at all to do with the crime against Madeleine.

HOLMES will have been fed all the information and very possibly has spat out the names of the people who should be looked at as witnesses who can possibly shed more light and suspects who might have been in place to be involved. 

Which is why SY and the PJ are looking at the people they are in Portugal.  These are the ones who may hold the key.

That people who are used to using various means to invade premises illicitly, leaving no trace or as little as possible, whose favoured times of entry are just prior to holidaymakers leaving ... I refer to criminal burglars who if encountered are not very nice people ... are always ruled out of the equation on forums is quite extraordinary.
They have the skills, they have the criminal contacts.
However burglars out ... innocent holidaymakers in.  Didn't make sense in 2007 doesn't make sense today.

Maybe they weren't after prams ... or dead children.  Maybe the intended target was a beautiful blue eyed, blonde little girl.



The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine.


Rubbish, Her parents could just tell the truth, that's the best way of finding Maddie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 13, 2014, 12:54:55 PM
I am thinking about what we are having now: 4 new arguidos and 11 new witnesses.

Is there anything that would 'connect' these arguidos and these witnesses, eh?

Amongst the arguidos is one ex OC worked so this would 'connect' the ex OC witnesses with this person but RM and his wife are 'connection' with SM?

I must say it is a puzzling and unusual combination what we have now.. and it is really strange combination of witnesses..

An issue, IMO, is that we're getting scraps of "news", much of which isn't verified.

Unlike a TV drama such as The Missing, there aren't necessarily any links for the public to attempt to connect. Not that that stops speculation.

And, unlike a TV drama, this is a real one, involving real people and a real investigation.

The police may be interviewing these people as nothing more than routine plod work, expanding the circle of ground under their feet, cross-checking, but also hoping that some detail or other may lead somewhere, possibly to someone whose name has never even arisen in connection with the case.

The lack of a proper police/media conduit and articles by the tabloids with dodgy sources are leading to a huge amount of possibly unwarranted speculation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 13, 2014, 08:06:52 PM
An issue, IMO, is that we're getting scraps of "news", much of which isn't verified.

Unlike a TV drama such as The Missing, there aren't necessarily any links for the public to attempt to connect. Not that that stops speculation.

And, unlike a TV drama, this is a real one, involving real people and a real investigation.

The police may be interviewing these people as nothing more than routine plod work, expanding the circle of ground under their feet, cross-checking, but also hoping that some detail or other may lead somewhere, possibly to someone whose name has never even arisen in connection with the case.

The lack of a proper police/media conduit and articles by the tabloids with dodgy sources are leading to a huge amount of possibly unwarranted speculation.

But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 13, 2014, 08:26:05 PM
But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.

Do we know if the arguidos are of that status as a result of the police making them so or as the result of a  request by themselves for that status?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 09:34:22 PM

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg206065#msg206065

If this information is being revealed to journalists ... it begs the question, what else is being leached from the heart of the investigation, by whom and to whom? 

Who decides what is to be leaked or what is not to be leaked and who decides what spin is to be put on it for public consumption?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 13, 2014, 09:38:17 PM
I suppose it would depend upon whether it was an offical leak or an unofficial leak.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 09:42:43 PM
I suppose it would depend upon whether it was an offical leak or an unofficial leak.

There are official leaks?

Do give out the information you have on those.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 13, 2014, 09:51:02 PM
One can't prove anything but I'm sure that there are leaks approved by the authorities and those that aren't
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
One can't prove anything but I'm sure that there are leaks approved by the authorities and those that aren't

Surely if it cannot be proved, it should not be said as if it were fact.

It should be expressed as a matter of opinion.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 13, 2014, 10:10:11 PM
Which, of course, is why I originally used the words 'I suppose', which does not indicate fact, merely a supposition.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 13, 2014, 10:33:41 PM
But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.

Yes, I understand that.

However... a few questions.

If, indeed, the four alleged arguidos were so constituted, no one knows why. It may be McCann-related or not. It may be the nature of the questions submitted which may have been considered on the cusp of a legal threshold. There could have been a misunderstanding over the interpretation of the legal situation in an international context. There may have been McCann-related questions, but which may have their origin in suspected non-related activities of a potentially illegal nature. No one knows whether those questioned requested arguido status themselves (even if only to benefit from legal advice in an unfamiliar situation).

I'm just being cautious.

They may all be innocent people. If that's the case, they don't deserve to have wild speculation posted about them any more than the McCanns and their friends do.

My thought is in general terms, not about any specific poster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 13, 2014, 10:38:13 PM
Yes, I understand that.

However... a few questions.

If, indeed, the four alleged arguidos were so constituted, no one knows why. It may be McCann-related or not. It may be the nature of the questions submitted which may have been considered on the cusp of a legal threshold. There could have been a misunderstanding over the interpretation of the legal situation in an international context. There may have been McCann-related questions, but which may have their origin in suspected non-related activities of a potentially illegal nature. No one knows whether those questioned requested arguido status themselves (even if only to benefit from legal advice in an unfamiliar situation).

I'm just being cautious.

They may all be innocent people. If that's the case, they don't deserve to have wild speculation posted about them any more than the McCanns and their friends do.

My thought is in general terms, not about any specific poster.

Of course. I agree with you 100%.  I just pointed out at that because people are still in old mind set while the investigation seems to be moving. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 10:59:00 PM
Murat resembled 2 other people one of which was David Payne, in actually uncanny likeness to him and i would think he would have been walking around at that time. ....
DP was not the man mistaken for RM that night. Here are two undisputable proofs of that.

1. FP testified about seeing the man that night. Assuming she does know what her OH looks like, it was not DP she saw.

2. DP himself testified about seeing and speaking to this man that night. I have checked and assure you there were no full-length mirrors in the stairwell area. Therefore the man DP saw was not DP.

It says little for SY's detective skills if they have not yet identified this man yet - it should be easy with their resources - it was definitely not RM, not DP, not AS, not JH. It was a bilingual male, probably with glasses. who was helping to translate that night , an innocent helper.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 13, 2014, 11:11:24 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife.
He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down.
 He did however say that he was prepared to answer the necessary questions if asked. I hope this case will be solved soon, for the sake of many innocent people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:27:41 PM
Of course. I agree with you 100%.  I just pointed out at that because people are still in old mind set while the investigation seems to be moving.

Me too ... they are all definitely innocent until there is enough evidence found to change that status. 
There are indeed people around who are stuck in the past to the extent of being unable to see the wider picture, but did the Flat Earth Society ever disband?

      back to the latest news

If I were in the situation of having to present myself for questioning either as a witness or arguido in the case of a missing child, if I could afford to, I would definitely instruct a lawyer to accompany me.
Just common sense.

I find the press reports (if they are to be believed?) that Robert Murat did not answer questions already asked as an arguido a bit confusing.

When he was an arguido he had the right to refuse to answer incriminating questions and I am sure his lawyer at the time would so advise.

SY would of course already have a transcript of his interview question and anwers ... it is interesting that there appears to be so many for which they require clarification ... and it is interesting that there is resistance to providing that, particularly as he is on record on quite a few occasions over the years stating his eagerness to help in any way he can.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 11:27:48 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife.
He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down.
...
Me too. And it is because SY appear to not have the grassroots investigative ability to realise that RM was certainly not the man seen that night by DP FP RO ROB SB and JJ. Ask the GNR officers whom this man was seen talking to, by most of those witnesses - 100% definite it was not RM.

And as for the JJ sighting morning 4th in a striped top - that was not RM she saw - there are almost simultaneous photos of
(a) RM in blue tshirt and jeans morning 4th exactly as he said
(b) the different man in a striped top whom JJ saw morning 4th IMO.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 13, 2014, 11:30:32 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife.
He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down.
 He did however say that he was prepared to answer the necessary questions if asked. I hope this case will be solved soon, for the sake of many innocent people.

Why? He chose to get involved and behave in a manner which aroused suspicion.
I expect he answered nearly every question on Friday with "I refer you to the answer I gave in my original statements."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:31:30 PM
DP was not the man mistaken for RM that night. Here are two undisputable proofs of that.

1. FP testified about seeing the man that night. Assuming she does know what her OH looks like, it was not DP she saw.

2. DP himself testified about seeing and speaking to this man that night. I have checked and assure you there were no full-length mirrors in the stairwell area. Therefore the man DP saw was not DP.

It says little for SY's detective skills if they have not yet identified this man yet - it should be easy with their resources - it was definitely not RM, not DP, not AS, not JH. It was a bilingual male, probably with glasses. who was helping to translate that night , an innocent helper.

Then it should have been very simple to find out who he was if he was taking such a prominent part in the proceedings ... the police should have had a note of his name and contact details.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:35:29 PM
Me too. And it is because SY appear to not have the grassroots investigative ability to realise that RM was certainly not the man seen that night by DP FP RO ROB SB and JJ. Ask the GNR officers whom this man was seen talking to, by most of those witnesses - 100% definite it was not RM.

And as for the JJ sighting morning 4th in a striped top - that was not RM she saw - there are almost simultaneous photos of
(a) RM in blue tshirt and jeans morning 4th exactly as he said
(b) the different man in a striped top whom JJ saw morning 4th IMO.

We really have no idea of the direction SY are taking with their current question and answer sessions ... I am sure HOLMES will be having a high old time with it all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 13, 2014, 11:51:24 PM
We really have no idea of the direction SY are taking with their current question and answer sessions ... I am sure HOLMES will be having a high old time with it all.

Computer says no... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 13, 2014, 11:54:05 PM
Why? He chose to get involved and behave in a manner which aroused suspicion.
I expect he answered nearly every question on Friday with "I refer you to the answer I gave in my original statements."

Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)

 I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......

We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.

 Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 12:10:25 AM
Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)

 I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......

We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.

 Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.

Surely greater safeguards could have been put in place with regard to the confidentiality of all the persons called for questioning either as witnesses or arguidos.

Portugal is a country with Judicial secrecy laws; why were these identities not protected by them?  It seems nothing has been learned from the constant drip of misinformation from 'sources' in 2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 12:19:17 AM
Surely greater safeguards could have been put in place with regard to the confidentiality of all the persons called for questioning either as witnesses or arguidos.

Portugal is a country with Judicial secrecy laws; why were these identities not protected by them?  It seems nothing has been learned from the constant drip of misinformation from 'sources' in 2007.

I agree Brietta, but it seems the names of these witnesses were leaked from somewhere weeks ago.

 I think a police presence preventing Reporters and photographers from invading, the immediate area of investigation area, would have been welcomed by these witnesses too.

 It must have been distressing for those attending IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 12:25:35 AM
Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)

 I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......

We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.

 Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.

There are reasons he was under scrutiny then and reasons why he is still of interest to the investigation now. Both he & his wife, who, if you believe their testimonies, have no reason to be of any relevance to the authorities.
None of the other police translators have come under suspicion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
There are reasons he was under scrutiny then and reasons why he is still of interest to the investigation now. Both he & his wife, who, if you believe their testimonies, have no reason to be of any relevance to the authorities.
None of the other police translators have come under suspicion.

That is of course true, but how many of the other translators were British,were not professional translators, were sighted by several people near 5A, only arrived very recently in PDL, lived close to 5A, Had a German (married) girlfriend, had a statement about some disgusting acts performed by them, made by a childhood friend, had a reporter complain that they were strange and suspicious. On top of all that the PJ thought he asked too many questions and put him under surveillance, very shortly after he started helping them.

Maybe the police wanted to know more about some of the people he was involved with, or it could be more.
 We do not know and are only speculating on possibilities.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 12:46:35 AM
I know that we quite often say things get lost in translation ... does that apply to carefully marking out the Murat property from Google Maps as the house next door?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_959.jpg
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 14, 2014, 12:49:54 AM
Murat and his wife each have an alibi for that evening. Murat was with his mother eating cheese sandwiches and his wife was in her church.
They therefore cannot be witnessing anything about Madeleine.
I think this questioning was about something else, i.e nothing to do with them directly.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Then it should have been very simple to find out who he was if he was taking such a prominent part in the proceedings ... the police should have had a note of his name and contact details.
Yes should be easy.
For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene:
"in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?"
IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement).
Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?".
They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there).
So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM.
But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it.
Nor studied in depth early photos.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 01:02:14 AM
Murat and his wife each have an alibi for that evening. Murat was with his mother eating cheese sandwiches and his wife was in her church.
They therefore cannot be witnessing anything about Madeleine.
I think this questioning was about something else, i.e nothing to do with them directly.

There is only one other person who links almost all of the witnesses currently being questioned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:06:47 AM
Yes should be easy.
For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene:
"in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?"
IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement).
Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?".
They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there).
So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM.
But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it.
Nor studied in depth early photos.

All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:12:16 AM
And another simple logical step. In early statement witness SB recommended to PJ that PJ should speak to resident witnesses PW and JW and BW (expecting them to confirm that RM was there that night). The response from all 3 (who unlike the other witnesses actually knew what RM looked like) was a resounding triple NO, definitely not there.  It does not require much brains to see that the obvious question to ask those same 3 witnesses now is "Was there a different male helping translate that night?".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:16:43 AM
SB  2nd statement 15th may

Robert Murat doesn't seem to be mentioned in her first statement

Processos Vol V


Pages 1289 – 1290

Witness Statement

Silvia María Correio Ramos Batista

Date: 2007 – 05 – 15

She is responsible for maintenance of the OC resort in P da L. Because of her profession she knows many people from the English community who are resident in P da L.

She knows the Murat family, had done for about 30 years. Mainly Mr Murat and his wife, Jenny. Mr Murat was linked to a civil construction business and the development of tourist resorts, in Salema as far as she knows. Mr Murat died some years ago.

The Murats live in a house near to the OC, called Casa Liliana. When asked she says she does not remember whether the Murats have a son.

When asked, she says that on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance, 3rd May, she was called by her boss at about 22.30. As she lives in Lagos, she arrived shortly afterwards at the resort. There were about 60 people close to apartment 5 A, helping to look for the girl.

She remembers, but is not absolutely certain, given the time that has passed, that from the start, there was an individual helping to look for Madeleine, about 1.70 tall, with sort, light brown hair, with thin framed, brown glasses, who was also helping to search.

She does not remember at what time she saw him. She does not remember how he was dressed. She does not remember whom he was with or know if he arrived on foot or by car.

The same individual, she knew later to be the son of the Murat’s, Robert Murat.

Robert speaks fluent English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR in Lagos, and later the PJ to translate the witness statements of some English individuals.

In principal, she thinks it should be possible to confirm whether Murat was there on the date that Madeleine disappeared as well as other details, with Paul and June from the Duke of Holland bar and Mr Byron from the property administration company JNB in P da L.

She clarifies that on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or even Monday (07-05-2007) she spoke to Robert for the first time, during breaks between interviews, where he was acting as translator.

She describes him as a pleasant and easy going individual. He was quite open and extrovert in the conversations with her, he never spoke of anything personal.


Reads, ratifies, signs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:18:43 AM
All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.
Correct, SB did know of his parents, but certainly did not even know what RM looked like.
And BTW nor did DP nor FP nor ROB nor RO nor CP nor JJ nor RB.
The common factor shared by all (100%) of those people who claimed RM was there that night, is that they all had absolutely no idea what he looked like.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:25:40 AM
So......By now they must know, surely who this man was, who so closely resembled him. Who was the Realty man who looked a lot like him.

 His name escapes me.

Could he have been there that night helping. I believe he lived nearby.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:31:57 AM
So......By now they must know, surely who this man was, who so closely resembled him. Who was the Realty man who looked a lot like him.

 His name escapes me.

Could he have been there that night helping. I believe he lived nearby.
Definitely not AS. He left PDL and went home at 6pm. Not nearby, 10 kilometres away actually.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:37:32 AM
Definitely not AS. He left PDL and went home at 6pm. Not nearby, 10 kilometres away actually.

Sorry, I meant worked nearby. I remember his name now, but alas it is not him. The police must know who this lookalike is!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 01:37:50 AM
Correct, SB did know of his parents, but certainly did not even know what RM looked like.
And BTW nor did DP nor FP nor ROB nor RO nor CP nor JJ nor RB.
The common factor shared by all (100%) of those people who claimed RM was there that night, is that they all had absolutely no idea what he looked like.

Did any of the GNR officers who attended that night have prior knowledge of Robert Murat? Do you not find it odd that several people present identified a man who looked like him but none of the officers made the same "error"?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:43:38 AM
You cannot make this up!

EXCLUSIVE: Brazilians in the frame in Madeleine hunt
The behaviour of a Brazilian couple who were seen acting suspiciously around the time of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance is now being re-examined by Portuguese police......
Actually the Express, for a change, was not making it up, they are reporting on a real diligence.
The catamaran is "Tropics"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 01:45:12 AM
Yes should be easy.
For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene:
"in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?"
IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement).
Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?".
They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there).
So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM.
But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it.
Nor studied in depth early photos.

Do SY have the right to barge into Portugal to demand answers from GNR officers?

There should already be a list of names with this man's name and contact details available on it ... protocols dictate that victims should be protected from intrusion by any Tom, Dick or Harry.
Obviously not a high priority as far as the police were concerned, Yvonne Martin was waved through without let or hindrance now it seems we have anonymous translators free to come and go as they pleased.

Really not good enough.
If officers were busy, as they undoubtedly were, one of the senior management could have been delegated to the task of taking names.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:50:14 AM
Did any of the GNR officers who attended that night have prior knowledge of Robert Murat? Do you not find it odd that several people present identified a man who looked like him but none of the officers made the same "error"?
IIRC they did, but I might be wrong, maybe you could check the the GNR statements?
So we can add them to these lists
Peeps who had no idea what he looked like but claimed he was there: DP FP ROB RO SB CP JJ RB.
Peeps who did know what he looked like and confirm he was definitely not there: PW JW BW.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:53:35 AM
Actually the Express, for a change, was not making it up, they are reporting on a real diligence.
The catamaran is "Tropics"

Processos Volume IV

Pages 854-855


External Inquiry Report

Date: 2007/05/09
Place: Praia da Luz - Lagos
Responsible Officers: Raquel Neves and Tony Almeida, Inspectors
Description and result of the inquiry:

In the sequence of information received by this Policia Judiciaria on this date, at around 11H40, we went to the Video Club “Eureka Services", located in Praia da Luz - Lagos, in order to contact Mr. S**** R******, the owner of the establishment.

Following an informal conversation, we were informed by that individual that he had remembered that on the previous Thursday, 3rd May, 2007, at the time he was closing up his shop, around 22h45, a small vehicle, whose make, model and number plate he does not remember, the only identifying element he captured was the colour of the vehicle—a dull red, almost as if the colour has been burnt off, sic, due to prolonged exposure to sunlight. Inside the vehicle, he could only make out the presence of one person, as well as a dog in the front passenger's seat.

At the moment that said vehicle passed him, he observed that the driver was looking towards the back seat . Mr R***** affirms that he did not have, at that time, the opportunity to determine what was in the back of the car.

When questioned, he further noted that he recognised the identity of the driver, indicating that it was a female, of Brazilian nationality, 1,70 cm in height, 25/26 years of age, slim with lightly coloured skin. He even added her name, S*** S***** because she and her partner had previously worked at his parents’ farm. …
Due to minor arguments caused by the misuse of tools, involving mainly the woman’s companion identified as E***** S*****, the latter, also of Brazilian nationality, and Mr. R*****, effectively came to blows, and the services of the couple were concluded.

He adds that some of the physical aggressions he suffered in Marina de Lagos, had required help from the local police;

After the couple were fired, he found out that they went to work in the Marina de Lagos, in the area of repairs/maintenance of boats, and more concretely, for a boat which was moored there and that they it as their residence. He furthers that it was a catamaran of high dimensions with the name "TROPICS";

Another individual called R***** also worked in that place with the couple. R*****’s telephone number is xxxxxxxxx, and he may help in determining other elements;

He only remembered the episode at this point, because in making some associations, given the disappearance of the child, it reminded of him of this couple who mentioned that they had an exceptional desire to have a child of their own;

After the facts occurred, he also stated that they had left Marina de Lagos, as the vessel was no longer found in that place.


When questioned about the physical characteristics of E**** S*****, he identified him as being bald, with a strong build, around 1,70 m in height, dark skin tone and around 42 years of age.

Signed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
Do SY have the right to barge into Portugal to demand answers from GNR officers?...
SY currently can request through the proper methods for permission to have the PJ question witnesses in Portugal, I see no reason why that should exclude the first GNR officers at the scene, important witnesses methinks.
Have a read of ROB rog. He saw translatorman translating between some angry brit searchers and GNR officers that night, calming down the searchers. So why not ask those GNR now about this? IMO it would be valuable because IMO they would confirm yes that happened but it certainly wasnt RM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:04:43 AM
@Anna. It's an extremely rare example of a UK tabloid article about this case without a single mistake in it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:10:58 AM
I can't see a boat called Tropics in the Maritime list. Should it be Tropico?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 02:13:49 AM
@Anna. It's an extremely rare example of a UK tabloid article about this case without a single mistake in it

It is indeed, but can not find "Tropics" in boat movements, only "Tropica". I think it was their home, so they probably moved away by car etc, or else, I missed something.

I will check again, later

This could have been connected to the pizza parlour owner's? sighting at the Marina, or near.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:15:30 AM
SY currently can request through the proper methods for permission to have the PJ question witnesses in Portugal, I see no reason why that should exclude the first GNR officers at the scene, important witnesses methinks.
Have a read of ROB rog. He saw translatorman translating between some angry brit searchers and GNR officers that night, calming down the searchers. So why not ask those GNR now about this? IMO it would be valuable because IMO they would confirm yes that happened but it certainly wasnt RM

I have never suggested it was him.
It is my opinion that it would have provided him with a better alibi, if he needed one, than being at home with his mother.

I am still very much of the opinion that it was remiss to have translators and searchers out and about without a name check in place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:21:24 AM
I have never suggested it was him.
It is my opinion that it would have provided him with a better alibi, if he needed one, than being at home with his mother.

I am still very much of the opinion that it was remiss to have translators and searchers out and about without a name check in place.
At first there were two GNR who BTW arrived very speedily after they were phoned at 10.42pm. Are you suggesting that on arrival they should have written down the names of all the hundred or so searchers present when they arrived?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:21:35 AM
IIRC they did, but I might be wrong, maybe you could check the the GNR statements?
So we can add them to these lists
Peeps who had no idea what he looked like but claimed he was there: DP FP ROB RO SB CP JJ RB.
Peeps who did know what he looked like and confirm he was definitely not there: PW JW BW.

I have read the GNR statements & each one stated that they didn't see RM there on the night of the 3rd into the early hours. What isn't clear is whether they even knew what RM looked like (I recall Bridget O'Donnell's reference to the GNR officer who failed to recognise Madeleine's photograph). Several of the statements were not made until 2 weeks after the event.
Only Reis Santos is definitely known to RM - yet there is no statement on file from the officer Santos who was there that night.
BW - yes, he was already searching at 9.45, so I don't think I'd trust his memory.
Let me make it clear - I do not think RM was the translator. I am more interested in who was Smokingman - someone seen before the GNR were on the scene.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:25:37 AM
At first there were two GNR who BTW arrived very speedily after they were phoned at 10.42pm. Are you suggesting that on arrival they should have written down the names of all the hundred or so searchers present when they arrived?

I have already suggested there could have been delegation ... it is important to know who is in search parties and where they have searched.

However at the moment I am more interested in reading about the Brazilian couple, as I know you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:28:43 AM
I have read the GNR statements & each one stated that they didn't see RM there on the night of the 3rd into the early hours. What isn't clear is whether they even knew what RM looked like (I recall Bridget O'Donnell's reference to the GNR officer who failed to recognise Madeleine's photograph). Several of the statements were not made until 2 weeks after the event.
Only Reis Santos is definitely known to RM - yet there is no statement on file from the officer Santos who was there that night.
BW - yes, he was already searching at 9.45, so I don't think I'd trust his memory.
Let me make it clear - I do not think RM was the translator. I am more interested in who was Smokingman - someone seen before the GNR were on the scene.
Guess you mean smokingman seen that night by witness JJ?
As JJ states he is the same as stripetopman seen by JJ next morning.
And it's elementary to prove he was not RM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:46:12 AM
Guess you mean smokingman seen that night by witness JJ?
As JJ states he is the same as stripetopman seen by JJ next morning.
And it's elementary to prove he was not RM.

Stripetop man was DP. DP wasn't idling in a doorway smoking.
It's a pity JJ/AW statements of 4th May to the PJ are also missing from the public files. I wonder why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 02:54:24 AM
I can't see a boat called Tropics in the Maritime list. Should it be Tropico?

Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 03:03:24 AM
Stripetop man was DP. DP wasn't idling in a doorway smoking.
It's a pity JJ/AW statements of 4th May to the PJ are also missing from the public files. I wonder why?
JJ states smokingman evening 3rd is same as stripetop morning 4th.
JJ would have recognised DP, having eaten in same restaurant, and played tennis in same group.
Definitely IMO there was a different stripetop man morning 4th who is not DP and not RM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 03:12:11 AM
JJ states smokingman evening 3rd is same as stripetop morning 4th.
JJ would have recognised DP, having eaten in same restaurant, and played tennis in same group.
Definitely IMO there was a different stripetop man morning 4th who is not DP and not RM.

I thought JJ merely referred to the change of clothing from a striped t-shirt in the morning? Maybe she didn't have a close-up view of the morning man in the T-shirt as opposed to later in the day when she was engaged in conversation later with RM?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 03:17:00 AM
Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.
There are two harbours at Lagos.
The documents maybe cover only the inner harbour?
See the jetty where boats probably log in and out (just south of the footbridge).
Boats going in or out of outer harbour do not pass it.
And the outer harbour is more likely to be where a cat is repaired?
https://goo.gl/maps/nCe2P
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 03:19:09 AM

José Carlos Leal Pimental - Statement, 16 May 2007
 
 

Processos Volume V

Pages 1346 – 1347

Witness Statement

José Carlos Leal Pimental

Date: 2007 – 05 – 16

Occupation: GNR Officer
*snip*
When asked about Robert Murat, he says that he does not remember having seen him at dawn, having seen him during the day on 4th May in the afternoon at about 17.00- 18.00. He saw Murat pass by close to the mobile post accompanied by Officer Costa. At this time he was searching, he (RM) appeared with roll of electrical cable, that he was going to give to the mobile GNR post in the Rua Agostinho da Silva.

The witness saw him that night at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant. He was sitting at a table with some OC employees, including, as he recalls, Silvia responsible for maintenance at the resort.

         ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 03:24:06 AM
"at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant" on 4th May
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 01:10:35 PM
"at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant" on 4th May

.....with Sylvia Batista.
Do you believe she was also mistaken when she identified RM as the man she had seen?
What was a translator doing in the Tapas bar speaking with witnesses?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 14, 2014, 01:32:32 PM
.....with Sylvia Batista.
Do you believe she was also mistaken when she identified RM as the man she had seen?
What was a translator doing in the Tapas bar speaking with witnesses?

I thought SB was an unreliable witness ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 14, 2014, 01:59:57 PM
IMO, there is an awful lot of room for confusion.

- SB "later learned" that the translator was RM... but then appears to have changed her mind. Was that an early assumption as he was indeed helping to translate and to generally offer assistance?

- The GNR officer is reported to have stated that "as he recalls" SB was in the Tapas restaurant. What did the GNR officer actually say? Was it "as far as I can recall"? He remembered a lady who may well have been SB?

(One GNR officer on the scene early that evening had stated that he was given to underestand that Sky had been contacted - when that wasn't the case at that point. Rachael had contacted the wife of someone she knew in the BBC, so there was obviously a mix-up in recollection / underestanding there.)

There doesn't appear to have been any cross-checking on this, perhaps because of the workload and it may not have seemed of any importance at the time.

I don't find anything odd about RM and other people getting together to chat about a major event in a village. RM's obligation as an interpreter was to maintain the confidentiality of the content of the witness statements in which he was involved, not that he couldn't chat about the case in general.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:00:19 PM
It has been suggested that DCI Hall may bring a different dynamic to the case ... it certainly seems true of the PJ co-ordinator Ana Paulo Rito ... who seems to be busy tying up loose ends.

I would think if the Express have the story right, that this Brazilian couple have neither been ruled in or out of the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.

***snip
After British detectives sat in on interviews in Faro with witnesses last week, the Sunday Express can reveal Policia Judiciaria co-ordinator Ana Paula Rito is taking a broader look at leads which may not have been fully pursued.

She is now keen to learn more about the Brazilian couple, who are said to have expressed a strong desire to have a child when they were in the ­Algarve in May 2007 when Madeleine vanished.

A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/546818/Brazilian-couple-who-wanted-a-child-re-examined-in-Madeleine-hunt?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-uk-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+UK+Feed%29
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
"To access the marina you have to call the marina office so they can open the pedestrian bridge to let you out so if you want an early start you need to stay on the visitors/check-in pontoon outside the marina as the bridge didn't open till 8am in the summer and later in the off season."
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/kaivalya37/?xjMsgID=159685

The key words are "check-in pontoon".
You can see it here https://goo.gl/maps/jnF9G
Now zoom out and notice it controls access to the inner marina only.
Boatsaccessing the outer harbour do not pass this jetty and therefore have no check-in or check-out documentation.
This IMO explains why "Tropics" is not in the huge lists of arrivals/departures for Lagos marina in the files.
IMO it was probably moored in the outer harbour, and so would not be in the arrival/departure lists which are IMO for the inner harbour only
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 14, 2014, 06:25:06 PM
All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.

Does anyone else not find it odd, to know someone for 30 years and not know they have children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 14, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Does anyone else not find it odd, to know someone for 30 years and not know they have children?

Care to clarify ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 14, 2014, 08:31:48 PM
It has been suggested that DCI Hall may bring a different dynamic to the case ... it certainly seems true of the PJ co-ordinator Ana Paulo Rito ... who seems to be busy tying up loose ends.

I would think if the Express have the story right, that this Brazilian couple have neither been ruled in or out of the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.

***snip
After British detectives sat in on interviews in Faro with witnesses last week, the Sunday Express can reveal Policia Judiciaria co-ordinator Ana Paula Rito is taking a broader look at leads which may not have been fully pursued.

She is now keen to learn more about the Brazilian couple, who are said to have expressed a strong desire to have a child when they were in the ­Algarve in May 2007 when Madeleine vanished.

A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/546818/Brazilian-couple-who-wanted-a-child-re-examined-in-Madeleine-hunt?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-uk-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+UK+Feed%29

Good to see the Portuguese looking at this sort of lead.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 09:51:01 PM
Good to see the Portuguese looking at this sort of lead.
But all the witness saw in the car was a woman and a dog.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 10:14:18 PM
But all the witness saw in the car was a woman and a dog.

Maybe it was unusual to see the woman in that area.

He knew that they wanted a child.

He heard of the disappearance of a British child and linked the info.

They were no longer at their regular address, when the police checked it out.

IIRC The boat left that night/day.
(If they left swiftly by boat, maybe there was an abandoned red, car....It's not mentioned though)


The Portuguese police, have gathered all the evidence of this report and have decided to investigate.

It sounds like the right thing to do.........eliminate as many possibilities as they can.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 10:41:49 PM
Maybe it was unusual to see the woman in that area.

He knew that they wanted a child.

He heard of the disappearance of a British child and linked the info.

They were no longer at their regular address, when the police checked it out.

IIRC The boat left that night/day.
(If they left swiftly by boat, maybe there was an abandoned red, car....It's not mentioned though)


The Portuguese police, have gathered all the evidence of this report and have decided to investigate.

It sounds like the right thing to do.........eliminate as many possibilities as they can.

Ana Paulo Rito has obviously found relevant leads which for one reason or another have not been followed through to what, as far as she is concerned, is a satisfactory conclusion.

Tracing this couple and finding out if they have any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is good investigative practice.  It may not lead to a satisfactory conclusion but at least it now seems things which were overlooked in the past are being addressed now.

I don't think we need to know every move and every lead being followed the PJ and SY.  If these people did take Madeleine they now know that they are being looked for.  I feel this is putting her at unnecessary risk.  The leaks to the press really must be stopped.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
But all the witness saw in the car was a woman and a dog.

But he did note her unusual behaviour.

What did she keep checking in the back seat?  A restrained child?  A child coming to from drugs?

Normally dogs travel in the back of a vehicle.  Perhaps the witness had never seen this dog travelling in the front passenger seat before? and he thought it odd.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 10:59:32 PM
But he did note her unusual behaviour.

What did she keep checking in the back seat?  A restrained child?  A child coming to from drugs?

Normally dogs travel in the back of a vehicle.  Perhaps the witness had never seen this dog travelling in the front passenger seat before? and he thought it odd.
One possibility is her own baby in a babyseat on the backseat. Recommended for some babyseats IIRC. Safer in back anyway. Dog on front seat to keep it away from her baby. Also remember this was 10.45pm. That would be a very relaxed getaway wouldn't it? 1 mph?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 14, 2014, 11:05:43 PM
One possibility is her own baby in a babyseat on the backseat. Recommended for some babyseats IIRC. Safer in back anyway. Dog on front seat to keep it away from her baby. Also remember this was 10.45pm. That would be a very relaxed getaway wouldn't it? 1 mph?
I thought she couldn't have children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:06:02 PM
Ana Paulo Rito has obviously found relevant leads which for one reason or another have not been followed through to what, as far as she is concerned, is a satisfactory conclusion.

Tracing this couple and finding out if they have any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is good investigative practice.  It may not lead to a satisfactory conclusion but at least it now seems things which were overlooked in the past are being addressed now.

I don't think we need to know every move and every lead being followed the PJ and SY.  If these people did take Madeleine they now know that they are being looked for.  I feel this is putting her at unnecessary risk.  The leaks to the press really must be stopped.

(In bold) It's Like asking a leopard to change it's spots, Brietta.
I don't think it will ever happen, but like you I wish it would.

This lady is tying all the loose ends up and hopefully it will pay off.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified
I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 14, 2014, 11:10:03 PM

Don't worry, Folks.  If Madeleine is with these people they aren't going to do anything to hurt her now.  They might as well be dead if they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:10:09 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified
I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him

And remember gerry asking for the lady to contact kate . The lady by the pool
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
Don't worry, Folks.  If Madeleine is with these people they aren't going to do anything to hurt her now.  They might as well be dead if they do.


That is of course true Eleanor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 14, 2014, 11:15:16 PM

That is of course true Eleanor.

You know, Anna, I really don't approve of rough justice.  But sadly there won't be anything any of us can do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 11:17:40 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified
I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him
Yes, identified, a brit tourist dad with own child (not a portuguese policeman).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:19:50 PM
Do you remember Gerry making an appeal for the lady who Kate was chatting to to get in touch ? Trying to find it in the press I'd be interested to see what date it was
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:22:46 PM
You know, Anna, I really don't approve of rough justice.  But sadly there won't be anything any of us can do.

It would be a good news applaud, if Madeleine was with them and well, though. We can but wish!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:30:42 PM
Yes, identified, a brit tourist dad with own child (not a portuguese policeman).

An Asian man called raj
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 11:42:20 PM
Do you remember Gerry making an appeal for the lady who Kate was chatting to to get in touch ? Trying to find it in the press I'd be interested to see what date it was
That appeal was made on 22 Aug 2007 and was about a lady at the toddler pool on Sun 3 June 2007
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 15, 2014, 12:04:29 AM
Even if it does not point to a perpetrator it is a line of investigation which should have been followed in 2007....
It was, using Met experts, in 2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lizzibif on December 15, 2014, 12:09:04 AM
Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.


I always thought madeleine was whisked away by boat...and still do ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2014, 12:11:12 AM

I always thought madeleine was whisked away by boat...and still do ...

So do I.  So this latest news is of great interest to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2014, 12:16:16 AM

I always thought madeleine was whisked away by boat...and still do ...

This a belief of many others too, lizzibif . Being so close to the ocean and of course the nearby Marinas.
The Perfect getaway, if you have access to a boat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lizzibif on December 15, 2014, 12:27:00 AM
This a belief of many others too, lizzibif . Being so close to the ocean and of course the nearby Marinas.
The Perfect getaway, if you have access to a boat.


i know it was reported that a man was dragging a little girl towards the marina..the morning after madeleine went missing..i don't believe that was madeleine..i believe she was moved by boat the same night she went missing ..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2014, 12:33:08 AM

i know it was reported that a man was dragging a little girl towards the marina..the morning after madeleine went missing..i don't believe that was madeleine..i believe she was moved by boat the same night she went missing ..

So do I.  Always have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lizzibif on December 15, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
So do I.  Always have.

The smith man sighting...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2014, 12:45:36 AM
The smith man sighting...?

Yes, basically.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 15, 2014, 12:56:07 AM
I think she was taken into a house that has a water front with a boat..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: TitoMuzzy on December 15, 2014, 02:21:34 AM
The smith man sighting...?

Walking to where exactly ?
You talk of marinas ! The nearest marina to PdL is situated in Lagos harbour, completely the opposite direction of the Smith sighting !
Also PdL does not have mooring facilities for a yacht.

Wise up folks...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 15, 2014, 06:10:28 PM
That appeal was made on 22 Aug 2007 and was about a lady at the toddler pool on Sun 3 June 2007
No mention of it on 3/6
Was encouraged to learn of the large volume of information which has come through the Leicester incident room following the appeal. Hopefully the Portuguese police will have had a good reponse also and we hope to meet with them in the next couple of days for an update. Chris and Les, who travelled over with the huge inflatable banner which has been positioned near the Spanish border, are heading home today. They were very happy that the director of the Algarve tourist board allowed them to put it up in private property owned by them, with thousands of cars passing every hour and seeing Madeleine’s image and details of her disappearance and reward. Sunday papers have reported our interviews virtually verbatim but vey disappointed that the blog was lifted almost in entirety by one newspaper yesterday after expressly forbidding such an approach! The blog is to keep people visiting the website up to date
with our progress in the campaign to find Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
No mention of it on 3/6
Was encouraged to learn of the large volume of information which has come through the Leicester incident room following the appeal. Hopefully the Portuguese police will have had a good reponse also and we hope to meet with them in the next couple of days for an update. Chris and Les, who travelled over with the huge inflatable banner which has been positioned near the Spanish border, are heading home today. They were very happy that the director of the Algarve tourist board allowed them to put it up in private property owned by them, with thousands of cars passing every hour and seeing Madeleine’s image and details of her disappearance and reward. Sunday papers have reported our interviews virtually verbatim but vey disappointed that the blog was lifted almost in entirety by one newspaper yesterday after expressly forbidding such an approach! The blog is to keep people visiting the website up to date
with our progress in the campaign to find Madeleine.

Any help?

Fri 1 June: Madrid trip. DNA results.
Sat 2 June: Quiet family day. TV/newspaper interview. DNA results.
Sun 3 June: Car rental extended. K talks to lady by pool (according to Aug 22 blog).
Mon 4 June: Finalising travel arrangements. Crimewatch interview.
Tue 5 June: Meeting with police. Fly to Berlin.
Wed 6 June: Argentina phonecall. Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam.

http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?

A curious statement is released that 'Kate is keen to get in touch with a very nice mum, who she spoke with at the toddler pool in the Ocean Club on Sunday 3rd June. She is sure she will remember the conversation and Kate would be grateful if you could get in touch with her at campaign@findmadeleine.com'
f=1&t=13241&p=356672&sid=630f0d1ef66cb3ff9718ea4c498dff63

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id8.html )
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 15, 2014, 07:30:08 PM
Any help?

Fri 1 June: Madrid trip. DNA results.
Sat 2 June: Quiet family day. TV/newspaper interview. DNA results.
Sun 3 June: Car rental extended. K talks to lady by pool (according to Aug 22 blog).
Mon 4 June: Finalising travel arrangements. Crimewatch interview.
Tue 5 June: Meeting with police. Fly to Berlin.
Wed 6 June: Argentina phonecall. Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam.

http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?

A curious statement is released that 'Kate is keen to get in touch with a very nice mum, who she spoke with at the toddler pool in the Ocean Club on Sunday 3rd June. She is sure she will remember the conversation and Kate would be grateful if you could get in touch with her at campaign@findmadeleine.com'
f=1&t=13241&p=356672&sid=630f0d1ef66cb3ff9718ea4c498dff63

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id8.html )

According to the 22 .just strange they never mentioned it on the day or day after
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2014, 07:42:05 PM



I guess it was a busy time, but she probably remembered it because it was a calendar month anniversary of Maddie's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 15, 2014, 08:50:38 PM
Re:  Family of Ben Needham to sue Home Office for funding of police operation

It is my understanding that Ben Needham's grandfather made many visits to the Mediterranean since 1991 to carry out his own investigation and to follow up on sightings of children who could have been Ben. 

Quite often this was at great personal risk as he followed leads into areas which were 'no go' for the police.

If North Yorkshire police think they have a good enough case and worth following through ... IMO they should be given the funding to help them pursue it. 

Even if it proves to be a dead end at least the Needham family will know that as much has been done as is possible.


**clip

The money being sought by South Yorkshire police is understood to be a sum in thousands not millions.

Christine Needham, Ben’s grandmother, said: “The police really want to crack on with this and have heard nothing. We feel ignored and abandoned by the government. It’s very difficult. I am pleased for the family of Madeleine McCann that they are getting support, but what we are saying is please listen to our requests for support.

“Ben was a small child who went missing too. The police have some leads they need to follow up, and they need the funds to go and do it.” 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/15/ben-needham-family-to-sue-home-office
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 19, 2014, 04:17:52 PM
Yes, someone (Payne's brother in law?) did that for Tapas group, as I recall
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 19, 2014, 04:21:30 PM
Yes, someone (Payne's brother in law?) did that for Tapas group, as I recall

Sorry Jassi.  Did what for the Tapas group?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on December 21, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Members will be very aware that the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals.  What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.

Is this a coincidence too far?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 21, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
Members will be very aware thant the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals.  What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.

Is this a coincidence too far?

As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2014, 12:35:57 PM
As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.

I thought it was considered to be cross-contamination due to poor procedure, rather than deliberate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 21, 2014, 12:41:44 PM
I think it is true that you can have quick justice or good justice but very rarely both.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 21, 2014, 02:36:46 PM
Members will be very aware that the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals.  What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.

Is this a coincidence too far?

Perhaps not.

The paedophile ring clearly leads to several important people alive and dead.

The question is just how far.

and of course with the inquiry, will it be statutory, or just another 'inquiry' to find nothing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 21, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
I think it is true that you can have quick justice or good justice but very rarely both.

The worst of all worlds is poor justice delivered slowly ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on December 21, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
The worst of all worlds is poor justice delivered slowly ...

or not at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on December 21, 2014, 03:15:16 PM
Edgar Allan Poe

“Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 10:02:57 AM
DCI Wall, takes over the investigation, Today.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 22, 2014, 10:21:34 AM
DCI Wall, takes over the investigation, Today.

And good luck to her Anna.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 10:29:39 AM
I think she might need it too, Faith.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 22, 2014, 10:36:16 AM
I think she might need it too, Faith.

Indeed Anna  8(8-))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 22, 2014, 10:42:15 AM
As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.

I may have a look at that case. Somebody very close to her set her up. The hitman was there earlier than when she arrived home but she had gone shopping which explained the delay and no cars were found to be tracking her &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 06:45:13 PM
DCI Wall, takes over the investigation, Today.
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
Interesting article

"prides herself on her investigative speed"

"attributes her low media profile to the fact 'we solve cases so quickly ...' "
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 22, 2014, 06:53:24 PM
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
Interesting article

"prides herself on her investigative speed"

"attributes her low media profile to the fact 'we solve cases so quickly ...' "

I imagine people in the Met tend to be pretty low profile unless they hold one of the most senior jobs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 07:05:54 PM
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
Interesting article

"prides herself on her investigative speed"

"attributes her low media profile to the fact 'we solve cases so quickly ...' "

Thank you Pegasus. It is very interesting. A very down to earth lady.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 22, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
Cause and effect in practice.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/92dec14/PortugalResident_22_12_2014.htm

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-new-shock-as-tour-operator-drops-%E2%80%9Cinfamous%E2%80%9D-ocean-club-resort

How many people have and will lose their livelihoods, and do the mccanns give a f##k ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:06:48 PM
Thank you Pegasus. It is very interesting. A very down to earth lady.


An excellent article indeed.
Highly informative and gives an insight into the organisation and teamwork which goes on in the incident rooms of SY ... with very clear lines and chains of command and responsibility.

** snipped
When cases break, Stewart is very much the brains of the operation; it's a fallacy that detectives spend their days charging around revisiting crime scenes or examining witnesses, as we might assume.

"You couldn't do it all," she says.

In most incident rooms, the workload is spread among about 18 detectives, most of whom have been trained specifically for different roles.
 
"I'm much more the co-ordinator," she continues.
"I allocate things: the family liaison officer; someone to trawl through the CCTV. We'd have a house-to-house co-ordinator. I probably wouldn't meet the witness unless there was some problem - if we could give her any assistance with protection and that kind of thing…

Then you've got one case officer who will take the case to court eventually, an exhibits officer, the telephones officer and a float."

The biggest surprise is how rarely she even interviews the suspects. "We have specialist interviewers, so they would interview," she explains.
So those psychologically charged detective/murderer interview showdowns we enjoy so much on screen? Pure fiction.

Stewart describes her most valuable skill as "good leadership. Being here, being open to talk to everyone, knowing the team, who they are, what their strengths are. I think the best managers are good people persons," she says.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 08:09:17 PM
Cause and effect in practice.

www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/92dec14/PortugalResident_22_12_2014.htm

http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-new-shock-as-tour-operator-drops-%E2%80%9Cinfamous%E2%80%9D-ocean-club-resort

How many people have and will lose their livelihoods, and do the mccanns give a f##k ?

It is being taken over by different tour operators, Thomas Cook.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 22, 2014, 08:13:09 PM
It is being taken over by different tour operators, Thomas Cook.

I read that.  Whether that will result in the loss of jobs remains to be seen.

Also, of relevance, how many people have lost their jobs there, in the aftermath of 2007 ?

and of course, what is the drop in tourism to that region, which is no fault at all of the residents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 08:20:33 PM
I read that.  Whether that will result in the loss of jobs remains to be seen.

Also, of relevance, how many people have lost their jobs there, in the aftermath of 2007 ?

and of course, what is the drop in tourism to that region, which is no fault at all of the residents.

Its not Maddie's fault either, Stephen. Do you think her disappearance should not have been investigated?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 08:24:15 PM
Another interesting point in
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime

In the section about Detective Stewart:
 "I probably wouldn't meet the witness".
and
"how rarely she even interviews the suspects"

So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated.
Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.

I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 22, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Its not Maddie's fault either, Stephen. Do you think her disappearance should not have been investigated?

Did I say that ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 08:30:54 PM
An interesting phrase in
http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-new-shock-as-tour-operator-drops-%E2%80%9Cinfamous%E2%80%9D-ocean-club-resort

"One day I would love to break my silence"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2014, 08:32:11 PM
Another interesting point in
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime

In the section about Detective Stewart:
 "I probably wouldn't meet the witness".
and
"how rarely she even interviews the suspects"

So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated.
Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.

I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.

Will she write a book on her hypothesis of The McCann's guilt if she fails to solve the case?
Personally, I doubt it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 08:36:48 PM
Did I say that ?

No. You said "it's no fault at all of the residents"
I very much, sympathise with them too, but nobody is at fault, so what is it you were you trying to say, exactly?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:39:06 PM
Did I say that ?

In effect you did.

I was under the impression Gordon Brown had been blamed for the global recession ... now it seems Madeleine McCann has single handedly destroyed tourism and jobs in Portugal in the midst of it.

Well, well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2014, 08:42:41 PM
In effect you did.

I was under the impression Gordon Brown had been blamed for the global recession ... now it seems Madeleine McCann has single handedly destroyed tourism and jobs in Portugal in the midst of it.

Well, well.

Well Madeleine must have affected UK bookings to France as well.  These have dropped over the last seven years.

Personally, I thought it was the exchange rate.  It's played havoc with my pension.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:43:39 PM
An interesting phrase in
http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-new-shock-as-tour-operator-drops-%E2%80%9Cinfamous%E2%80%9D-ocean-club-resort

"One day I would love to break my silence"

Only last month, Ocean Club manager Donna Hill told us: “I really cannot comment. One day I would love to break my silence”.

Wouldn't it be great if he confided in the PJ and SY if he is referring to Madeleine McCann ... if he doesn't we can only assume he has other concerns in which Madeleine's disappearance doesn't figure.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 08:46:45 PM
Will she write a book on her hypothesis of The McCann's guilt if she fails to solve the case?
Personally, I doubt it.
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.

Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"?
Nope.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:47:14 PM
Will she write a book on her hypothesis of The McCann's guilt if she fails to solve the case?
Personally, I doubt it.

 
@)(++(* didn't see that on the remit ... but since she will be entitled to a full pension on retiral, she probably won't need the money
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:54:18 PM
Another interesting point in
http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime

In the section about Detective Stewart:
 "I probably wouldn't meet the witness".
and
"how rarely she even interviews the suspects"

So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated.
Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.

I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.

Yeah I did notice that ... but I also noted the disciplines allocated to the officers under her command ... one of whom was responsible for recovering CCTV footage.

I wonder if you would care to enumerate any instances you consider good practice in the conduct of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2014, 08:55:13 PM
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.

Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"?
Nope.

Too late.  She is already being dissed elsewhere.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:59:50 PM
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.

Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"?
Nope.

She's 'getting it' quite simply because she is the antithesis of 'corpulent and sweaty'.

Nobody wins in the name calling game, sometimes even if the cap fits really well it is much better just to ignore it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:01:40 PM
 
@)(++(* didn't see that on the remit ... but since she will be entitled to a full pension on retiral, she probably won't need the money
Mr Amaral did not write his book to make money.
Mr Amaral wrote the book IMO because he is determined that this case will be solved.
His book reaches an inaccurate conclusion, but his ethics are way up there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 09:07:16 PM
She's 'getting it' quite simply because she is the antithesis of 'corpulent and sweaty'.

Nobody wins in the name calling game, sometimes even if the cap fits really well it is much better just to ignore it.

Thank goodness, she can't have Socrates to interfere.

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/december-socrates/33512
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 09:13:22 PM
Mr Amaral did not write his book to make money.
Mr Amaral wrote the book IMO because he is determined that this case will be solved.
His book reaches an inaccurate conclusion, but his ethics are way up there.

I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it.  But there you are, you learn something new every day.

You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:13:36 PM
She's 'getting it' quite simply because she is the antithesis of 'corpulent and sweaty'.

Nobody wins in the name calling game, sometimes even if the cap fits really well it is much better just to ignore it.
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.

So he punished them back, by launching a book, to destroy a family?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:26:56 PM
I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it.  But there you are, you learn something new every day.

You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.
Yes I have a very high opinion of this man's integrity.
But I am not claiming he made no investigative mistakes. Several of his investigative deductions (for example about the window, and especially about the clothes) are IMO drastically incorrect, and so this led to the conclusion of his book being inaccurate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 22, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it.  But there you are, you learn something new every day.

You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.

Neither has Kate McCann so waht is your point ?
It was his money with to do what he wished.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 09:40:03 PM
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.


There are already people complaining about SY.  Maybe because they don't like the way the current investigation is going ... but certainly that it is taking place at all.

... possibly they are the same people who fought tooth and nail to keep them out of investigating Madeleine's disappearance ... the same ones who graffiti'd Luz ... who complain about the expense ... leak press stories about stupid Brits digging and looking in culverts ... etc.

They have their reasons no doubt ... but some that I can think of are sinister indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 23, 2014, 12:36:59 AM

There are already people complaining about SY.  Maybe because they don't like the way the current investigation is going ... but certainly that it is taking place at all.

... possibly they are the same people who fought tooth and nail to keep them out of investigating Madeleine's disappearance ... the same ones who graffiti'd Luz ... who complain about the expense ... leak press stories about stupid Brits digging and looking in culverts ... etc.

They have their reasons no doubt ... but some that I can think of are sinister indeed.
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.

I don't think anyone is actually looking for power.  I certainly am not.  Scotland Yard will do their job to the best of their ability, which will be good.

And just supposing The McCanns were found to be culpable, I have nothing to feel ashamed of by supporting them in the rule of law. 
Nor will I feel ashamed of criticising  Amaral.  He did a terrible, self serving job, and ignored a whole pile of evidence.  And certainly never nailed The McCanns.

And anyway, I don't know any of them, so it has always been an exercise in logistics for me.

I work as a gardener around here, and yesterday I was talking to a client.  A Brit of above average intelligence who told me that he thinks The McCanns are as guilty as sin, and Gerry isn't Madeleine's father.  I was stunned.  But No, we didn't fall out about it.  And it isn't important anyway.  Any more than is my opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 07:33:00 AM
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.

I for one am happy for the police investigation to follow wherever the evidence takes us. I'm sure you cannot supply any evidence that Harrison supported amaral in his beliefs. The whole point is that the evidence used by the PJ against the McCanns was bogus as has been accepted by the archiving report..

As for Grime...I have no problem with him...the two best dogs in the world found nothing to implicate the McCanns ...the dogs support the theory that Maddie did not die in the apartmnet
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 23, 2014, 07:50:01 AM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.

Christmas 2014

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.

Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.

It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.

No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.

Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.

Kate and Gerry


Pity they had to be shamed into it !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 08:07:31 AM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.

Christmas 2014

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.

Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.

It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.

No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.

Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.

Kate and Gerry



Great to see all the support the McCanns are still getting
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 23, 2014, 08:09:44 AM
Great to see all the support the McCanns are still getting

You have the wee evidence for that ?

Or do you prefer a boredham ?  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 08:37:39 AM
You have the wee evidence for that ?

Or do you prefer a boredham ?  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

Of course I have loads of evidence but the question you meant to ask is do I have proof
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 23, 2014, 08:41:19 AM
Of course I have loads of evidence but the question you meant to ask is do I have proof

No dave, I didn't.

and how would you know how many cards the mccanns had received ? &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 08:43:08 AM
No dave, I didn't.

and how would you know how many cards the mccanns had received ? &%+((£

Then there is plenty of evidence
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 23, 2014, 08:46:41 AM
Then there is plenty of evidence


Where ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on December 23, 2014, 09:30:19 AM
No dave, I didn't.

and how would you know how many cards the mccanns had received ? &%+((£

Dear me - that is one of most petty and nitpicking posts I've ever read.   

The McCanns have told us they received hundreds of Christmas cards  - try to get over it.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 23, 2014, 09:36:14 AM
Dear me - that is one of most petty and nitpicking posts I've ever read.   

The McCanns have told us they received hundreds of Christmas cards  - try to get over it.

So what.

There is nothing to get over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on December 23, 2014, 03:43:38 PM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.

Christmas 2014

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.

Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.

It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.

No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.

Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.

Kate and Gerry


Pity they had to be shamed into it !


Shamed into it were they?   Says who?  You?

Maybe they were just late putting it out.   

Why do some always have to say something nasty about what ever they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on December 23, 2014, 03:54:55 PM

Shamed into it were they?   Says who?  You?

Maybe they were just late putting it out.   

Why do some always have to say something nasty about what ever they do.

It is obvious that until sceptics started to ask questions there was going to be no Christmas message this year.

I'm sure their supporters will appreciate their, albeit late, thanks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 23, 2014, 03:55:59 PM

Shamed into it were they?   Says who?  You?

Maybe they were just late putting it out.   

Why do some always have to say something nasty about what ever they do.
Because some people are complete bitches that's why.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 23, 2014, 04:15:12 PM
Past Christmas message dates from Kate and Gerry

21st December 2011

21st December 2012

20th December 2013

23rd December 2014

Bloody Nora a couple of days different.

Where's Amarals message?



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on December 23, 2014, 04:25:40 PM
Past Christmas message dates from Kate and Gerry

21st December 2011

21st December 2012

20th December 2013

23rd December 2014

Bloody Nora a couple of days different.

Where's Amarals message?


Yes just a couple of days,   what do they care anyway it's not for them is it.

Exactly,  WHERE'S AMARAL'S MESSAGE!!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 23, 2014, 04:26:26 PM
Past Christmas message dates from Kate and Gerry

21st December 2011

21st December 2012

20th December 2013

23rd December 2014

Bloody Nora a couple of days different.

Where's Amarals message?
Christ, it shows the level or anticipation and obsession in the "sceptic" camp!  I had neither noticed, nor cared a jot that I hadn't received a Christmas message from the McCanns.  Some people really need to get a life.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 04:28:57 PM
The McCanns can thank their thousands of supporters but amaral would look a  bit silly posting a similar message to his handful.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 08:27:21 PM
Interestingly, I see that support for the McCanns has grown massively over the last few years on Facebook - their 2010 Christmas message only received 280 likes compared with over 4500 so far for this latest one.  So those who claim that the McCanns' support is dwindling are very mistaken.

One might wonder why they do it, in the face of the obvious.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 08:56:17 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death  *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 09:03:44 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death  *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?

Did they?  How did they do that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 09:11:27 PM
CSI dogs don't alert to rotten meat. He hid her body in his lockup for 5 weeks (using a different name) then moved her hidden in a big box on a palllet truck. Put her in the boot of his car, took her to a remote place and set the body alight. The fire was reported and she was discovered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 23, 2014, 09:40:13 PM
Eddie was trained using pig foetuses; forgetting all his training and not waiting for a command he lunged into the apartment and ran round it, sniffing like mad, maybe reliving the wee puppy he once was when he was being  trained using eau de cochon.

I once encountered a student who worked with his father who was a pig farmer. 

There was evidence of a very strong smell associated with his work which IMO would be picked up by a dog for a long period from wherever that young man moved to in the room.

By the way, I found that opening windows dissipated the odour.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
Eddie was trained using pig foetuses; forgetting all his training and not waiting for a command he lunged into the apartment and ran round it, sniffing like mad, maybe reliving the wee puppy he once was when he was being  trained using eau de cochon.

I once encountered a student who worked with his father who was a pig farmer. 

There was evidence of a very strong smell associated with his work which IMO would be picked up by a dog for a long period from wherever that young man moved to in the room.

By the way, I found that opening windows dissipated the odour.

The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.

Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.

It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.

The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."

Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since.
An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances.
The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.

Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 23, 2014, 10:33:19 PM
The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.

Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.

It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.

The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."

Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since.
An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances.
The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.

Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.

Concrete isn't solid.

Eddie was a Victim Recovery Dog who was trained using pig foetuses.

Dogs indicate areas of interest.

Forensic examination provides evidence which backs up or rejects that indication.

In PDL Eddie ... who was trained using dead pig ... provided no indications which led to evidence being harvested.

... and you seem to have overlooked what I was saying in my post; just one of the dangers of being too enigmatic and not wishing to libel a person who in reality may be squeaky clean ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 23, 2014, 10:51:37 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death  *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?

I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.

Nor on Court News.

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2014, 10:55:36 PM
I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.

Nor on Court News.

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/

Thank you DCI,

I was checking it out, but it would  make things so much easier if the poster supplied the link. but I guess that is asking too much.



http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/coutts-graham.htm
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1453475/30-years-jail-for-killer-necrophiliac.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 23, 2014, 11:04:09 PM
The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.

Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.

It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.

The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."

Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since.
An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances.
The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.

Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.

Mark Harrison distrusted Eddie's alerts.

That is clear enough if you read his reports carefully.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 23, 2014, 11:07:44 PM
Mark Harrison distrusted Eddie's alerts.

That is clear enough if you read his reports carefully.

If you read the reports carefully the alerts did not convince Grime
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 23, 2014, 11:10:20 PM
Thank you DCI,

I was checking it out, but it would  make things so much easier if the poster supplied the link. but I guess that is asking too much.



http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/coutts-graham.htm (http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/coutts-graham.htm)
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/ (http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1453475/30-years-jail-for-killer-necrophiliac.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1453475/30-years-jail-for-killer-necrophiliac.html)

It was on Sky CI channel 553. You can download it on catch up if you have sky HD.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 23, 2014, 11:10:46 PM
If you read the reports carefully the alerts did not convince Grime

To a point.

But I think Harrison's reports are much more persuasive and revealing.

Harrison expressly disowned UK involvement in several inspections.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 11:18:02 PM
I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.

Nor on Court News.

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/c_sex_killers/a_graham_coutts/crime_vaults/

A Town & Country Murder
Tuesday 8pm CI Channel 555 Sky tv

Jane Longhurst

A shocking look at the chilling case surrounding the murder of teacher Jane Longhurst, whose body was found in a West Sussex beauty spot in 2003. (1 of 8)

http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0

It said decomposing body smell in boot. Reported funny smell from lockup. I watched it. It showed cctv footage of pallet truck.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2014, 11:19:15 PM
It was on Sky CI channel 553. You can download it on catch up if you have sky HD.

Thanks again. I will check it shortly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2014, 11:35:05 PM
A Town & Country Murder
Tuesday 8pm CI Channel 555 Sky tv

Jane Longhurst

A shocking look at the chilling case surrounding the murder of teacher Jane Longhurst, whose body was found in a West Sussex beauty spot in 2003. (1 of 8)

http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0



It said decomposing body smell in boot. Reported funny smell from lockup. I watched it. It showed cctv footage of pallet truck.

This was in 2004. so hardly latest news.

Now. how difficult would it have been to put this link on your original post?

I have yet to watch it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 24, 2014, 01:42:49 AM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death  *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?

I have just finished watching this video, about that horrendous crime in 2003, but can find no reference to the car boot, apart from the murderer, putting the box containing the body, in it.
 Could you please direct me to that part, PF? I may possibly have missed it........Then we can clear up the car boot mystery. Thank you

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 24, 2014, 08:05:27 AM

Forensic examination provides evidence which backs up or rejects that indication.


No, it can only back up evidence, it cannot reject it. The cautious words used to describe the alerts are legal not scientific.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on December 24, 2014, 09:39:31 AM
From my last post at http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com)

Personally, based on reading the files published in 2008 by the Polícia Judiciária of Portugal, some official communications of Scotland Yard in 2013 and 2014, and my three trips to Praia da Luz, the crime scene, in 2012 and 2013; I still think that the main hypothesis is IMO:

(a) It was a failed burglary attempt in apartment 5A, which escalated into the abduction of Madeleine.
(b) Only one, or no more than two people, know what happened, for being involved in the crime.
(c) At least one person who has participated in the crime was by then employed at the Ocean Club resort (OC).
(d) The offender, or offenders, did not have a car or any vehicle the night of the abduction.
(e) The offender, or offenders, were residing in Praia da Luz, or very near there, in 2007.

BTW, I will be visiting London on Dec. 28, 29 & 30. Anybody nearby to have a coffee? Heri.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 24, 2014, 10:25:57 AM
I have just finished watching this video, about that horrendous crime in 2003, but can find no reference to the car boot, apart from the murderer, putting the box containing the body, in it.
 Could you please direct me to that part, PF? I may possibly have missed it........Then we can clear up the car boot mystery. Thank you


27:20 - "On examining the car, we discovered the boot area smelt of decomposing body."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on December 24, 2014, 10:33:08 AM
In October 2013, I had made a list of Portuguese people who I would like to be interviewed, being the GROUP A the most important IMO:

GROUP A             
JCFdS, Vol III, Pages 679-680, THEFT, OC and/or MW, Driver
BdAPdS,   Vol II Pages 372-373 and Vol XV Pages 4114-4115, OC and/or MW, Driver
MFMM, Vol III Pages 555-557, OC and/or MW, Driver Laundry
MdGGAG, Vol II Pages 344-345, OC and/or MW, Administrative
Ricardo R (added to the list on Feb, 2014)
            
GROUP B              
SMCRB, Vol II Pages 355-356, Vol V Pages 1289-1290 and Vol VIII Pages 1975-1977, OC and/or MW, Manager
JCSB, Vol III Pages 540-542, OC and/or MW, Maintenance
JDNdON, Vol II Pages 341-343, OC and/or MW, Administrative
VMdS, Vol II Pages 331-333, FRAUD, OC and/or MW, Manager
            
GROUP C             
MDM, Vol III Pages 532-534, OC and/or MW, Maintenance 
LFMF, Vol II Pages 370-371, DRUGS, OC and/or MW, Maintenance
MJSdS, Vol II Pages 392-394, OC and/or MW, Cleaner
            
GROUP D            
NFGdC, Vol II Pages 264-265, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING, Maintenance
CMGdCP,   Vol II Pages 412-414, OC and/or MW, Maintenance
TPLdS, Vol II Pages 401-403, OC and/or MW, Maintenance
            
GROUP E            
JPSCdJH, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local
MHH, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local
MMMdS, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local
AEGFP, Vol II Pages 471-473, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING   
TRB, Vol III Pages 602-604, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING   
NGMVdRB, Vol II Pages 239-241, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING   

The other important thing IMO is the hairs & fingerprints recovered in May 4, 2007 (as Carana has pointed out many many times here).

From my blog: http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction.html)

"But the other 13 haplotypes remain unidentified, and not correspond to persons who were legally in the 5A and whose mitochondrial DNA profiles were determined."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 24, 2014, 01:07:10 PM
27:20 - "On examining the car, we discovered the boot area smelt of decomposing body."

Thank you PF. Sorted!
I apologize for misunderstanding, arising from your post.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 24, 2014, 01:23:18 PM
Thank you PF. Sorted!
I apologize for misunderstanding, arising from your post.

My apologies too PF. But there was no mention of the boot being left constantly open because of rotting meat or body fluids was there? . Or did I miss that too? So no similarities really.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 24, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
Thank you PF. Sorted!
I apologize for misunderstanding, arising from your post.

My apologies too PF. But there was no mention of the boot being left constantly open because of rotting meat or body fluids was there? . Or did I miss that too? So no similarities really.

Thanks to you both. No dogs were mentioned. Just decomposing body smell detected in car boot and bad smell reported from his lockup. Reported bad smells in hire car, reported boot left open and both dogs alerted to car and Keela alerted to blood in boot 15 alleles match. So there are similarities. He stored the body for 5 weeks before moving it so it's not impossible to hide and move a body many weeks later in the boot of a car. This is a case where it was done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 03:55:28 PM
Thanks to you both. No dogs were mentioned. Just decomposing body smell detected in car boot and bad smell reported from his lockup. Reported bad smells in hire car, reported boot left open and both dogs alerted to car and Keela alerted to blood in boot 15 alleles match. So there are similarities. He stored the body for 5 weeks before moving it so it's not impossible to hide and move a body many weeks later in the boot of a car. This is a case where it was done.

Weren't you wittering vacuously earlier about something or another that you claimed was "libellous"?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
The dogs solved this case.

And I am the Queen of Sheba ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.

Ian Horrocks.

http://www.bgpglobalservices.com/announcements/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 24, 2014, 05:19:39 PM
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.

Ian Horrocks.

and Ian Horrocks was involved in the Barry George case.

Try again Queen of Sheba. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 24, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.

Ian Horrocks.

http://www.bgpglobalservices.com/announcements/what-happened-to-madeleine-mccann

Why should you feel offended ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 24, 2014, 05:35:50 PM
and Ian Horrocks was involved in the Barry George case.

Try again Queen of Sheba. 8((()*/

If barry George had been arrested in Portugal he would now be in prison for life having confessed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on December 24, 2014, 06:35:00 PM
If barry George had been arrested in Portugal he would now be in prison for life having confessed

Sorry, no life sentences in Portugal. The most anyone can get is 25 years, even if they murder 10 people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on December 24, 2014, 06:51:16 PM
Sorry, no life sentences in Portugal. The most anyone can get is 25 years, even if they murder 10 people.

in the uk...life is 15 years
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 24, 2014, 09:32:16 PM
Was it rumoured in the latest news that the current investigation leader worked on the Addington case?
Is that right? Now wasn't the huge mistake in that case that the investigation assumed a far too early time for exiting the premises?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 24, 2014, 11:59:39 PM
Was it rumoured in the latest news that the current investigation leader worked on the Addington case?
Is that right? Now wasn't the huge mistake in that case that the investigation assumed a far too early time for exiting the premises?

That would appear to be the stuation ... that they may have been considered to have left the premises too early could possibly have been due to an over reliance on the nose of a dog.

** snip**
She oversaw the investigation into the murder of Tia Sharp, whose body was found in the loft of her grandmother's house in New Addington, south London, days after she went missing in August 2012.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2869936/Female-Met-officer-taking-Madeleine-McCann-inquiry-arrives-Portugal-ahead-questioning-former-suspect-Robert-Murat.html#ixzz3MrXnz994
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 25, 2014, 12:15:44 AM
Despite four searches by police officers using sniffer dogs, it was not until a specialist dog was taken in, that Tia's remains were found.

Met Commander Neil Basu, who was responsible for finding Tia, insisted the murder victim’s body was ‘well concealed’.
He said a review found ‘human error’ in how the searches were conducted and managed was to blame for the extraordinary mistake.

He added that the PC who first searched the loft was ‘inexperienced’ and he was given ‘words of advice’, the lowest form of disciplinary sanction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324061/Tia-Sharp-Met-forced-apologise-family-FOUR-searches-failed-spot-body.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 26, 2014, 01:46:57 AM
In that south London case the failure to solve the case for a whole 5 days was due entirely to a drastically incorrect assumption by investigators about time of leaving residence.
Now look at first page of final report in the Portugal case and find a similar assumption.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 26, 2014, 03:41:23 PM
Sorry, no life sentences in Portugal. The most anyone can get is 25 years, even if they murder 10 people.

In England, sentences where a  term of imprisonment is specified can still be referred to as a 'life' term.

Semantic nit-picking is scarcely conducive to constructive debate ...

http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/sentencing/Life-sentences.htm

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 26, 2014, 04:29:47 PM
In that south London case the failure to solve the case for a whole 5 days was due entirely to a drastically incorrect assumption by investigators about time of leaving residence.
Now look at first page of final report in the Portugal case and find a similar assumption.

I rather thought it was the inability of the police to conduct a thorough search of the property on more than one occasion in the Sharpe case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 28, 2014, 12:57:39 AM
I rather thought it was the inability of the police to conduct a thorough search of the property on more than one occasion in the Sharpe case.
From the moment the police arrived they subconsciously assumed that the object of their search was not in the premises. Therefore they did not search as thoroughly as they should inside - they missed places. And those are not the only two cases where this happened - here are two more - the Turner case - and the Castillo case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 28, 2014, 01:41:29 AM
From the moment the police arrived they subconsciously assumed that the object of their search was not in the premises. Therefore they did not search as thoroughly as they should inside - they missed places. And those are not the only two cases where this happened - here are two more - the Turner case - and the Castillo case.

I am not familiar with the 2 other cases to which you refer - would you be good enough to provide Christian names, please?
The subconscious assumption that TS was not on the premises - would that not have altered the moment the officers became aware of the background of the last known person to see her? I find it very distressing that the police in situ were just so damned incompetent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 29, 2014, 01:48:57 AM
I am not familiar with the 2 other cases to which you refer - would you be good enough to provide Christian names, please?
The subconscious assumption that TS was not on the premises - would that not have altered the moment the officers became aware of the background of the last known person to see her? I find it very distressing that the police in situ were just so damned incompetent.
Zyia Turner in Detroit MI, and Ari Aguilar-Castillo in Durham NC. Both involved incomplete search of a cupboard. Two very different outcomes. (Relevance is: a news report suggested the new investigation boss worked on the south London "inadequate search of premises" case).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 03, 2015, 09:32:08 PM

Madeleine McCann holiday firm pulls out of Portuguese resort where she vanished

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-holiday-firm-pulls-4915169
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 06, 2015, 06:59:57 PM
Bad news for those who disapprove of taxpayers' money being used to find British children missing abroad:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/new-funding-to-help-find-sheffield-s-missing-ben-needham-1-7036201
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 06, 2015, 07:15:01 PM
Bad news for those who disapprove of taxpayers' money being used to find British children missing abroad:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/new-funding-to-help-find-sheffield-s-missing-ben-needham-1-7036201

But that's good news, isn't it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2015, 07:37:13 PM
Bad news for those who disapprove of taxpayers' money being used to find British children missing abroad:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/new-funding-to-help-find-sheffield-s-missing-ben-needham-1-7036201

Absolutely delighted that money is being made available to look for Ben Needham ... I hope his family are able to find out what happened to him.

As far as I know Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann are the only two British children who have disappeared while abroad and who remain unaccounted for ... it is right and proper they should be looked for.

So what happens now to the objectors who complain about paying for the search for Madeleine ... will Ben now become an expense we can't afford too?
Or will even they see the hypocrisy of that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 06, 2015, 07:40:26 PM
Absolutely delighted that money is being made available to look for Ben Needham ... I hope his family are able to find out what happened to him.

As far as I know Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann are the only two British children who have disappeared while abroad and who remain unaccounted for ... it is right and proper they should be looked for.

So what happens now to the objectors who complain about paying for the search for Madeleine ... will Ben now become an expense we can't afford too?
Or will even they see the hypocrisy of that?

People never complained about the funding for Operation Grange, they just (some of them anyway) believed its scope had already been determined.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 06, 2015, 07:42:57 PM
People never complained about the funding for Operation Grange, they just (some of them anyway) believed its scope had already been determined.

then they are wrong...conspiracy theorists is the kindest way I can put it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 06, 2015, 07:45:04 PM
then they are wrong...conspiracy theorists is the kindest way I can put it.

We'll see, eventually.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 06, 2015, 07:50:23 PM
because some humans just aren't worth bothering about...if you get my drift

Adults, it would appear!

I see Ben Needham is worth about 10 times less than Maddie.

Ah well, at least we are all equal in God's eyes.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 06, 2015, 10:22:33 PM
People never complained about the funding for Operation Grange, they just (some of them anyway) believed its scope had already been determined.

Let me get this right ... if the money being spent looking for a solution to Madeleine McCann's disappearance was instead being directed towards investigating her parents ... there would be no complaining.

Is that what you are saying?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 06, 2015, 10:47:03 PM
Let me get this right ... if the money being spent looking for a solution to Madeleine McCann's disappearance was instead being directed towards investigating her parents ... there would be no complaining.

Is that what you are saying?

I wouldn't go that far. There's always someone complaining about something.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 08, 2015, 12:20:44 AM
Adults, it would appear!

I see Ben Needham is worth about 10 times less than Maddie.

Ah well, at least we are all equal in God's eyes.

Indeed!  and also they have saved the public a fortune by not having a 'fund' to help searching, they did that by themselves and following leads AND using proper aged progression pictures. unlike Little baby maddie pics which people are asked to 'look' for and are used in every MSM 'story'. I wonder why they still do that...Hmmmm sell ,sell, sell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 08, 2015, 01:30:02 PM
Indeed!  and also they have saved the public a fortune by not having a 'fund' to help searching, they did that by themselves and following leads AND using proper aged progression pictures. unlike Little baby maddie pics which people are asked to 'look' for and are used in every MSM 'story'. I wonder why they still do that...Hmmmm sell ,sell, sell.

I hate it when someone tries to use another child as a weapon against the McCann's.

There wasn't so much media involved when Ben went missing,  indeed if there was who knows whether there would have been a fund or not.   

As for the picture of Madeleine aged three,   it could jog someone's memory,  or maybe it is used as that is the picture that most people remember seeing when she disappeared.   There are people who don't follow the McCann case you know,  so showing that picture they would remember who it was.

Ben's picture of him as a baby is also shown in case you didn't notice.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2015, 01:32:12 PM

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg212541#msg212541

Dotting the i's and crossing the t's ... and making sure that nothing, however improbable, is ignored or neglected.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 18, 2015, 01:37:01 PM
I suppose there is a Madeleine void at the moment so poor old msm journalists have to come up with something albeit old and stale.

No doubt this could change very quickly for a number of reasons.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2015, 01:44:12 PM
I suppose there is a Madeleine void at the moment so poor old msm journalists have to come up with something albeit old and stale.

No doubt this could change very quickly for a number of reasons.

I'm getting the feeling there is a lot of activity going on in the background both here and in Portugal, particularly as far as the new team leaders are concerned.

I think all three will be up to speed now and anxious to move things on, and I think they will have compartmentalised the information gleaned from the fresh interviews conducted.

Just a case of waiting to see where they go from here.


   8)><(  Sorry ... wrong thread
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 18, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
I'm getting the feeling there is a lot of activity going on in the background both here and in Portugal, particularly as far as the new team leaders are concerned.

I think all three will be up to speed now and anxious to move things on, and I think they will have compartmentalised the information gleaned from the fresh interviews conducted.

Just a case of waiting to see where they go from here.


   8)><(  Sorry ... wrong thread

I have moved both posts.

I agree Brietta, there will be a lot going on in both London and Lisbon.  The new team at SY will be keen to take things forward but let's face it, they can't do much worse.  Redwood's efforts appear to have achieved very little a far as finding Madeleine is concerned.  One could argue that what he has been doing is preparing the ground work but my own experience is that changing the horses in the middle of a field is the wrong thing to do.

The Court in Lisbon will be very near to a decision by now and that should be forthcoming in March or April, always assuming that the documents requested by the court have been provided by all parties to the trial.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2015, 02:09:02 PM
I have moved both posts.

I agree Brietta, there will be a lot going on in both London and Lisbon.  The new team at SY will be keen to take things forward but let's face it, they can't do much worse.  Redwood's efforts appear to have achieved very little a far as finding Madeleine is concerned.  One could argue that what he has been doing is preparing the ground work but my own experience is that changing the horses in the middle of a field is the wrong thing to do.

The Court in Lisbon will be very near to a decision by now and that should be forthcoming in March or April, always assuming that the documents requested by the court have been provided by all parties to the trial.

When your nag is on his lasts legs, there's no option.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 18, 2015, 02:28:54 PM
When your nag is on his lasts legs, there's no option.

Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command?  Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 18, 2015, 02:33:36 PM
Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command?  Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?
What division was Andy Redwood from then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
I thought that was where Redwood was from as well.  As death is clearly an option, it would seem logical, even though they appeared to be concentrating on abduction initially.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 18, 2015, 02:36:19 PM
Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command?  Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?

abduction is major crime...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 18, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
I don't think the Met has an Abductions division, it is actually specified as coming under the description "Serious Crime", which of course it is!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 18, 2015, 02:49:39 PM
To be honest, I was expecting them to 'rule in' and 'rule out' ALL scenarios, and theories,minus the gloating,from supporters and then the- minor non- related - interruption regrading the 'twittergate affair' re sending names for persons to be dealt with! This was, I suspect, to keep good favour with the investigating team.

I also suspect that there is a belief Maddie is no longer alive. There is no  hard concrete evidence either way, so it is a stalemate! unless.... someone wants to go back to the beginning with a fresh look and no outside pressure.

It is worth noting that it was reported in the msn about a couple who were charged with child neglect, the 12 year old child removed from the family home for over a year (all due to a genuine misundestanding). I would like to give a link, But I don't have as this was relayed to me via phone call.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 19, 2015, 12:07:33 AM


Stephen D Birch plans to engadge directly with Prime Minister David Cameron via diplomatic channels for the release of Madeleine McCanns body !
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg212703#msg212703


Given David Cameron's personal circumstances just a bit insensitive I would have thought;  however can Mr Birch give any indication how the Prime Minister might achieve this? 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2015, 12:39:59 AM

Stephen D Birch plans to engadge directly with Prime Minister David Cameron via diplomatic channels for the release of Madeleine McCanns body !
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg212703#msg212703


Given David Cameron's personal circumstances just a bit insensitive I would have thought;  however can Mr Birch give any indication how the Prime Minister might achieve this?

He's just after a bit of publicity? Or a writ 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 19, 2015, 12:45:46 AM
He's just after a bit of publicity? Or a writ 8)-)))

I've not been following what he's been up to of late ... certainly his past efforts make him a bit of an enigma.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2015, 12:52:48 AM
I've not been following what he's been up to of late ... certainly his past efforts make him a bit of an enigma.

That's one word for him @)(++(* More intelligent hoaxer than most though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 19, 2015, 01:03:53 AM
That's one word for him @)(++(* More intelligent hoaxer than most though.

Maybe he does have the right answer, albeit to the wrong question.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2015, 01:48:48 AM
Maybe he does have the right answer, albeit to the wrong question.
How so, misty? You're very enigmatic yourself ?>)()<
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 19, 2015, 08:06:00 AM
That's one word for him @)(++(* More intelligent hoaxer than most though.
Intelligent?  That's the first time I've ever heard that word used for him!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 19, 2015, 02:32:15 PM
It will be interesting to see if  the analysis of  the phone traffic proves to be of any use.

In the end it may not be and a cross may have to be put in those boxes... but until it is thoroughly investigated there's no way of knowing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 22, 2015, 07:14:56 PM
Read this article the other day.

The DNA photofit: Amazing breakthrough means police can tell suspect's colour, height and even age – from a tiny speck of blood

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914932/The-DNA-photofit-Amazing-breakthrough-means-police-tell-suspect-s-colour-height-age-tiny-speck-blood.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 22, 2015, 07:17:22 PM
Read this article the other day.

The DNA photofit: Amazing breakthrough means police can tell suspect's colour, height and even age – from a tiny speck of blood

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914932/The-DNA-photofit-Amazing-breakthrough-means-police-tell-suspect-s-colour-height-age-tiny-speck-blood.html

Yes, I saw that and wondered how the technique would handle samples of mixed DNA such as were found in PDL - samples that were too complex to interpret.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 23, 2015, 06:14:21 PM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6286813/find-maddie-fund-dries-up-as-donations-dwindle.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 23, 2015, 06:39:05 PM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6286813/find-maddie-fund-dries-up-as-donations-dwindle.html

I'm sure it will receive a nice top-up shortly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 24, 2015, 11:53:40 AM
You don`t refute my observations about the gist and purpose of your "discussion" then ?

Point out instances all you will..........what the "discussion" all boils down to is what I posted earlier.

That`s what it`s all about isn`t it?

As is the ultimate purpose of all the doggie-woggie threads.

Maybe it`s time to "confront" Mr Grime about your (collective) concerns about his work.

I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs  - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.

I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum.   I am still awaiting his reply.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 24, 2015, 11:58:46 AM
I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs  - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.

I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum.   I am still awaiting his reply.

Yes, Anna, way back, produced a fascinating link of all the people (besides Mr Gordon and his shaving cut) who had bled in apartment 5a.

Extraordinary that (apparently) no one else bled in any of the other apartments.

Perhaps not so extraordinary that "inspections" in all the other apartments were whistle-stop; while the inspection of apartment 5a was long-drawn-out and painstaking ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
Tell me brietta, how you would breatheina car if it was airtight ?

LOL ... so the seal on your car doors is defective too is it?

Tell me Stephen ... how do you keep the elements out when driving ... or do you drive a frame on wheels to get the benefit of the great outdoors?


One of your less erudite questions Stephen ... needs a little thought and polishing up before showing you up when posted.
                8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 12:09:41 PM
I'm not the one who goes on about the dogs Sadie, unlike peeps like you.

 8)--)) *&*%£

Do you like being a peep.

It is treatable you know.

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*


Nothing wrong with the dogs Stephen

Just some strange weird things that need sorting, like

1)  The incorrect interpretataion of the alerts forensics [by Amaral]
2)  Martin Grime stating that CCat had caused the alert in the cupboard when quite clearly thta was wrong.  Almost certainly the alert was to the papers / folders on top of the counter.  Whose papers/ folders were they?   Who put them there and when ?
3)  Eddie alerting to a "cadavar " scent that was claimed came through an impervious door seal on a car. Elo Elo Elo!
 It was claimed that the key fob was the source of the odour.
4)  The key fob had Gerrys blood on it but some claim it was cadavarine.   Now I met Gerry and I can assure you he is very much alive.

And the list goes on.

There is a whole list of them that others have identified.



It would be good for someone, who is au fait with the other dog alert anomolies, to add them to my list and for us to take screenshots before they possibly vanish.

The dogs, per se, did a good job, but the weird bits need looking at as does the interpretation of forensics and of what the alerts were pointing to.

As you know both Keela and Eddie alert to blood.  Keela does not alert to Cadavar odour, but Eddie does.




Stephen

Please DO NOT deceive. 

I have NEVER knocked the dogs.  THEY did a good job, within their capabilities, which included pig cadavar odour as well as human cadavar odour, blood and other bodily matter
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:11:10 PM

Nothing wrong with the dogs Stephen

Just some strange weird things that need sorting, like

1)  The incorrect interpretataion of the alerts forensics [by Amaral]
2)  Martin Grime stating that CCat had caused the alert in the cupboard when quite clearly thta was wrong.  Almost certainly the alert was to the papers / folders on top of the counter.  Whose papers/ folders were they?   Who put them there and when ?
3)  Eddie alerting to a "cadavar " scent that was claimed came through an impervious door seal on a car. Elo Elo Elo!
 It was claimed that the key fob was the source of the odour.
4)  The key fob had Gerrys blood on it but some claim it was cadavarine.   Now I met Gerry and I can assure you he is very much alive.

And the list goes on.

There is a whole list of them that others have identified.



It would be good for someone, who is au fait with the other dog alert anomolies, to add them to my list and for us to take screenshots before they possibly vanish.

The dogs, per se, did a good job, but the weird bits need looking at as does the interpretation of forensics and of what the alerts were pointing to.

As you know both Keela and Eddie alert to blood.  Keela does not alert to Cadavar odour, but Eddie does.




Stephen

Please DO NOT deceive. 

I have NEVER knocked the dogs.  THEY did a good job, within their capabilities, which included pig cadavar odour as well as human cadavar odour, blood and other bodily matter


What happened to the cooked pork sadie ?

You must try harder. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 12:14:04 PM
What happened to the cooked pork sadie ?

You must try harder. 8((()*/
Wake up at the back Stephen

Cooked pork IS pig Cadavar.   Didn't you realise that cooked pork was dead pig?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:16:26 PM
Wake up at the back Stephen

Cooked pork IS pig Cadavar.   Didn't you realise that cooked pork was dead pig?



Cooked meat has a different biochemical composition.

Do some research. %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:22:08 PM
Wake up at the back Stephen

Cooked pork IS pig Cadavar.   Didn't you realise that cooked pork was dead pig?

P.S. sadie.

A cadaver is a corpse.

It does not refer to being cooked. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 12:26:25 PM
I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs  - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.

I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum.   I am still awaiting his reply.

Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.

As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices  are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........

.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.

As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices  are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........

.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?

It's pure desperation on their part.

I heard that even on stop the my###, they hasve dropped the thread claiming the mccanns won in the trial.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 24, 2015, 01:22:36 PM
Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.

As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices  are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........

.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?

LOL - I am not smearing anyone.     It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point.   I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true.    You are shooting the messenger.

Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't.   I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.     

IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and  other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault.    That didn't happen.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on January 24, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Do we know if Grimes knew whose car was whose?

It probably doesn't need saying but obviously Keela only goes in when Eddie alerts. You definitely make an interesting point Benice given the blood alerts only at the McCanns properly plus car. I assume both dogs alert to any kind of blood from a living or dead person even though the dogs can tell the difference? An important point to note imo is we don't know if Eddie was alerting to possible cadaver scent or blood do we at the hire car?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 01:30:39 PM
LOL - I am not smearing anyone.     It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point.   I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true.    You are shooting the messenger.

Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't.   I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.     

IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and  other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault.    That didn't happen.



The dogs are regularly tested so it is proven they can perform their job correctly or they wouldn't be working. It's not because Martin Grime says so! The dogs records speak for themselves. Eddie can detect that odour he knows so well. This was the enhanced training of the dog to recognise and alert to cadaver odour. These dogs were trained daily by MG.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
Indeed we have probably done this one a lot more than twice ... so maybe you can show us the Renault model that has porous door seals and maybe even an air vent or something in the front  doors just so that the car doesn't turn into a bomb when the air con unit is operating?
Does it work along the same principle as a pressurised plane ... or do they have porous door fittings too?

Really quite interested in how blood scent leaches through a padded metal door and an airtight seal and you seem to be the person to ask.

Oh dear! maybe you should have paid a little more attention when/if you studied physics.
Are you suggesting that Renault Scenic is designed to be pressurised like an aircraft?
Do you understand why an aircraft has a pressurised cabin and why a Renault Scenic does not?

Edited.
Sorry I missed the question highlighted.
Simples cos in this instance the seal ain't bleedin' air tight.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on January 24, 2015, 01:43:34 PM
The airtight car is simply a non starter imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 24, 2015, 01:47:35 PM
The airtight car is simply a non starter imo

I've got some jump leads if you want...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 24, 2015, 01:48:04 PM
Do we know if Crimes knew whose car was whose?

It probably doesn't need saying but obviously Keela only goes in when Eddie alerts. You definitely make an interesting point Benice given the blood alerts. I assume both dogs alert to any kind of blood from a living or dead person even though they dogs can tell the difference?

I believe M. Grime claimed not to have known the Renault was the McCanns, although the 'Madeline'  posters stuck on the car windows was a pretty obvious giveaway imo.  It would very unlikely IMO that he did not know that 5A was the McCanns apartment.

AFAIK both dogs alert to blood from dead or living persons.  They do not alert to fresh/wet blood.   They simply alert to the particular scent they have been trained to detect  - and don't know that it is blood they are alerting to - or who it belongs to - or even how long it has been there - which according to Grime-  could be decades.

Once Keela had been put in the Renault then she should have been put in the other cars also IMO.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 01:51:07 PM
LOL - I am not smearing anyone.     It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point.   I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true.    You are shooting the messenger.

Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't.   I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.      

IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and  other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault.    That didn't happen.

So we circle back to the oft repeated insinuations about the handling of the dog.........

in effect that given enough time and / or cuing, the dog will alert eventually anywhere the handler consciously or unconsciously wants him to.

 ......whilst at the same time, he`s apparently cleverly "negative cuing" to prevent any alerts to residues of pork products, lavatories, bathrooms, bins and ovens............ or historical splodges of this that or the other ........

.............which I posted in the first place.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
I believe M. Grime claimed not to have known the Renault was the McCanns, although the 'Madeline'  posters stuck on the car windows was a pretty obvious giveaway imo.  It would very unlikely IMO that he did not know that 5A was the McCanns apartment.

AFAIK both dogs alert to blood from dead or living persons.  They do not alert to fresh/wet blood.   They simply alert to the particular scent they have been trained to detect  - and don't know that it is blood they are alerting to - or who it belongs to - or even how long it has been there - which according to Grime-  could be decades.

Once Keela had been put in the Renault then she should have been put in the other cars also IMO.

Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 24, 2015, 02:12:24 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.

Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 24, 2015, 02:13:13 PM
Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.

The scent of Gerry's blood on the ignition key won't have exercised the dog to that degree, I'm sure ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 02:21:29 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.

Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?


Ah...........Yet another pesky pork sandwich alert..........Dogs alerting similarly at investigation sites everywhere,  all the time...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 24, 2015, 02:44:38 PM

Ah...........Yet another pesky pork sandwich alert..........Dogs alerting similarly at investigation sites everywhere,  all the time...

Oh, I didn't know he had a pork sandwich.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 03:20:15 PM
Oh, I didn't know he had a pork sandwich.

Well apparently "common sense" tells us that pork products could be involved, so I assumed it wasn`t sardines.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 03:34:25 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.

Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?

15 alleles matching Maddy in boot. It's about time they tested the hairs again in boot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.

pathfinder oh pathfinder ... either you are watching an entirely different video from the rest of us ... or you are capable of seeing only what you want to see.

Any idea why Eddie should be so attracted the wall ... Pink Floyd aficionado perhaps? ... or maybe even the next car in line which he kept running around?

IMO he was excited about something some distance and in a different direction from the Renault ... but we'll never really know will we? ... because he was consistently called back to the Renault.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 03:56:39 PM
pathfinder oh pathfinder ... either you are watching an entirely different video from the rest of us ... or you are capable of seeing only what you want to see.

Any idea why Eddie should be so attracted the wall ... Pink Floyd aficionado perhaps? ... or maybe even the next car in line which he kept running around?

IMO he was excited about something some distance and in a different direction from the Renault ... but we'll never really know will we? ... because he was consistently called back to the Renault.

Have you seen all of Eddie's alert in this case. What's the one thing they have in common? And it's not a wall  8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 04:02:14 PM
The airtight car is simply a non starter imo

Read back just a little to one of Sadie's posts where she has addressed this IMO very adequately ... if there are people around who choose to suggest we are discussing airtight cars ... that is certainly a problem ... but only so far as they are concerned.

Think about it carefully ... door seal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 04:07:21 PM
The passenger compartment of your car is not designed to be airtight. Fresh air comes in the front of the car, circulates through the passenger compartment and leaves the car through exhausters in the rear. If the cabin of a car or truck were truly airtight, the windows wouldn't defrost, it would get unbearably hot in there and anyone inside wouldn't be able to breathe.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/diagnosing-car-problems/body/car-air-tight.htm

Eddie alerted at the passenger door where the scent was coming out from.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 04:07:32 PM
Have you seen all of Eddie's alert in this case. What's the one thing they have in common? And it's not a wall  8)--))

Unless Eddie's trained response was to pick up something in his mouth and toss it around ... I saw nothing but an ill disciplined, panting animal working long hours into the darkness ... and very clearly past his best
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 24, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Read back just a little to one of Sadie's posts where she has addressed this IMO very adequately ... if there are people around who choose to suggest we are discussing airtight cars ... that is certainly a problem ... but only so far as they are concerned.

Think about it carefully ... door seal.

Exactly. Aren't air vents usually on the dashboard, ours are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 04:13:58 PM
The passenger compartment of your car is not designed to be airtight. Fresh air comes in the front of the car, circulates through the passenger compartment and leaves the car through exhausters in the rear. If the cabin of a car or truck were truly airtight, the windows wouldn't defrost, it would get unbearably hot in there and anyone inside wouldn't be able to breathe.

The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.

I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 04:19:04 PM
The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.

I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.

Scent can escape because it's not air tight. Eddie was right yet again. And with 15 alleles match in boot this will be further investigated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.

I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.

Eddie and Keela and all the unnecessary haraz that has been introduced:

Car door seals are not airtight.
Watertight maybe but not airtight.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 24, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
Eddie and Keela and all the unnecessary haraz that has been introduced:

Car door seals are not airtight.
Watertight maybe but not airtight.


Not even always that. I had to drive through a flood once - nasty wet experience
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on January 24, 2015, 04:56:45 PM
Scent can escape because it's not air tight. Eddie was right yet again. And with 15 alleles match in boot this will be further investigated.

I agree pathfinder73.

The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?

As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.

Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...

As to door seals please read.........

http://www.instructables.com/id/An-easy-and-permanent-fix-for-older-car-door-seals/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 24, 2015, 05:00:49 PM
Car doors bend when you slam em.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
I agree pathfinder73.

The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?

As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.

Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...

As to door seals please read.........

http://www.instructables.com/id/An-easy-and-permanent-fix-for-older-car-door-seals/

A witness said the boot was constantly open in July.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

 &%+((£ Dear oh dear What a shambles! 15 out of 19 components are present then it's out of 37.

I trusted Ricardo back then but I struggled to understand how, never mind why, somebody could have killed Madeleine and removed her body within such a short time frame. It didn’t make sense. And, like the business of the ‘blood’, this ‘evidence of death’ seemed tenuous in the extreme. The police appeared to be telling us, on the say-so of a dog, that someone had definitely died in apartment 5A and, since nobody else they knew of had passed away there, it must have been Madeleine. Supposing she had been killed – and we think this extremely unlikely – she must have been taken out of the apartment within minutes. (Madedleine)

I think it's extremely unlikely as well!

"I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content." (DP)

Apparently Madeleine was shattered and had to go to bed early  &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 05:46:55 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.

Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?
Did the GNR officer wear gloves when handling the car keys and other McCann personal effects?  Was he wearing protective clothing?? In the course of his duties had he recently come into contact with a dead body?  A road traffic victim?  A death at home?  Had he attended a murder scene or a disinterment?  Can we say with any certainty he and his colleagues were completely uncontaminated with cadaver odour?  If we can say this then how do we know this for a fact?  Why would any of these scenarios be considered far-fetched but the idea of MAdeleine's body being hidden in a coffin and cremated be considered quite feasible...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 05:56:15 PM

Not even always that. I had to drive through a flood once - nasty wet experience

I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here:
What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case  is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 05:59:05 PM
I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here:
What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case  is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.

Now that is magic.

How about it ?

Vehicles have perfect seals do they ?

Cooked meat releases the same compounds as a corpse ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 24, 2015, 06:21:08 PM
I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here:
What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case  is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.


Clever things, seals
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 06:22:25 PM

Clever things, seals
not as clever as dolphins. 8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 24, 2015, 06:36:34 PM
Goading, insulting and disruptive, posts will be deleted. Please try to adhere to the rules...Thank You.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 07:46:16 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre)
by Seal Rubber

Product Description
Car Door Seal Rubber  This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is  clarified in the pictures .  We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box  . Your  door seal  will be cut in one Continuous  Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate  door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this  seal rubber dimensions and your old  door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for  electric boards  . - Door weather stripe for Car  . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan  door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer  . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for  motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out .  - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 07:47:50 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre)
by Seal Rubber

Product Description
Car Door Seal Rubber  This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is  clarified in the pictures .  We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box  . Your  door seal  will be cut in one Continuous  Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate  door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this  seal rubber dimensions and your old  door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for  electric boards  . - Door weather stripe for Car  . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan  door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer  . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for  motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out .  - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails

Can you still breathe ?

 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 24, 2015, 08:02:51 PM
Back on the dogs, here is a classic quote from the botched £20m Jersey Children's Home investigation (Grime received £93,000 for 5 months of his service)
Once Eddie started sniffing, any notion of a strategy disappeared. Karl Harrison, one of the scientists Harper brought in from a UK company, LGC Forensics, summed up the inquiry's approach in a comment to the financial investigators.

He said: 'We followed the dog. Where the dog barked was dug up.' This, says the interim report, was 'a fundamental error'.

Harper had not worked as a detective since 1991. In his website article he claims he was experienced at investigating child rape, 'execution-style' slayings and terrorism. In fact, he served as an SIO only in less complex cases, such as domestic murders

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz3PlqMsMIT

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder how many times he barked?

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 24, 2015, 08:05:23 PM
Back on the dogs, here is a classic quote from the botched £20m Jersey Children's Home investigation (Grime received £93,000 for 5 months of his service)
Once Eddie started sniffing, any notion of a strategy disappeared. Karl Harrison, one of the scientists Harper brought in from a UK company, LGC Forensics, summed up the inquiry's approach in a comment to the financial investigators.

He said: 'We followed the dog. Where the dog barked was dug up.' This, says the interim report, was 'a fundamental error'.

Harper had not worked as a detective since 1991. In his website article he claims he was experienced at investigating child rape, 'execution-style' slayings and terrorism. In fact, he served as an SIO only in less complex cases, such as domestic murders

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html#ixzz3PlqMsMIT

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder how many times he barked?

If you were to calculate Grime's earnings as so much per bark, that would probably quite telling, too ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 08:21:24 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre)
by Seal Rubber

Product Description
Car Door Seal Rubber  This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is  clarified in the pictures .  We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box  . Your  door seal  will be cut in one Continuous  Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate  door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this  seal rubber dimensions and your old  door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for  electric boards  . - Door weather stripe for Car  . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan  door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer  . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for  motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out .  - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails

Go on then tell us how it keeps air out/in?
That explanation should be very interesting; I wait with bated breath to see you rewrite the laws of physics.

Remember if you will the old London Transport Routemaster; it used to say "Bovril" on the back  8(>((

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 08:29:23 PM
During the course of my work I have to pass a sewage plant.

Now when doing so , the windows are all closed, and whether the air conditioning is on or off, the 'odours' are very pronounced. 8((()*/

Indoles r'us.

....and don't forget the fact that substances can be adsorbed onto various surfaces and bond to them on a temporary or more permanent basis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 24, 2015, 08:54:41 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre)
by Seal Rubber

Product Description
Car Door Seal Rubber  This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is  clarified in the pictures .  We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box  . Your  door seal  will be cut in one Continuous  Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate  door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this  seal rubber dimensions and your old  door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for  electric boards  . - Door weather stripe for Car  . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan  door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer  . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for  motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out .  - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails

Any help
https://www.isma-isaac.be/publications/PMA_MOD.../1249_1262.pdf

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 09:38:22 PM
Any help
https://www.isma-isaac.be/publications/PMA_MOD.../1249_1262.pdf

Yeah a nice detail of a typical car door seal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Matthew Wyse on January 24, 2015, 09:39:27 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by.   If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks.   Make a note in your diaries.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 10:45:00 PM
Eddie and Keela and all the unnecessary haraz that has been introduced:

Car door seals are not airtight.
Watertight maybe but not airtight.

Oh really?

So in your car you feel a draft when you are driving at high speed?

Not in my car.... nor any car that I have driven

I never feel a draught



Same on aircraft.  Strange but I never feel a draft on them either.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 24, 2015, 10:48:00 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by.   If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks.   Make a note in your diaries.

If the Portuguese police had done a proper job..SY wouldn't be there
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:04:28 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by.   If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks.   Make a note in your diaries.
There was a report recently when the OC was taken over by Thomas Cook that made it clear that PdL has not been wrecked financially, and if anything is doing quite nicely thank you, despite the Met's concerted efforts to destroy it. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 11:15:14 PM
I agree pathfinder73.

The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?

As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.

Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...

As to door seals please read.........

http://www.instructables.com/id/An-easy-and-permanent-fix-for-older-car-door-seals/
It has already been explained that this car was nearly new.  Just over 3,000 miles.

It is a nonsense to claim that the doors were opened and closed and the Cadaver odour would stick to the outside of the car.

 The doors were airtight alright



You know, if I were backing Amaral, I would jump at the chance of a pork sandwich scent on fingers causing the scent, cos the other option ain't very palatable, for Amaral and Co.

Like the pile of papers/ folders on top of that cupboard that Eddie alerted to in the second apartment, ain't very palatable either.    Unless the person who owned the papers had been eating a pork sarnie.... %£&)**#



Are you guys sure that you dont want it to be a pork sarnie that is causing all the embarrassing trouble for Amaral?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:33:02 PM
If Eddie can detect whatever he's trained to alert to through 6 inches of concrete I don't see a car door presenting that much of a problem tbh.  What does strike me as odd is that Morse was unable to detect cadaver odour on a child's carseat in which a dead child had been placed simply because it had been wrapped in a paper bag.  Apparently the bag was waxed, which is like some sort of krytponite for cadaver dogs - would-be murderers take note.  Wrap your victim in a waxed paperbag before burying your victim and it will never be found.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 11:41:42 PM
If Eddie can detect whatever he's trained to alert to through 6 inches of concrete I don't see a car door presenting that much of a problem tbh.  What does strike me as odd is that Morse was unable to detect cadaver odour on a child's carseat in which a dead child had been placed simply because it had been wrapped in a paper bag.  Apparently the bag was waxed, which is like some sort of krytponite for cadaver dogs - would-be murderers take note.  Wrap your victim in a waxed paperbag before burying your victim and it will never be found.

Concrete is different from Steel and plastic, Alfie.

If it rains, then concrete, being granular and porous, allows the rain to seep throught it.

Cars, being metal which is impervious, do not allow the rain to seep thru.

If rain can penetrate, as in concrete, then gases can escape.

If the rain cannot penetrate, as in metal and plastic (and waxed paper), then no gases can escape erither .


Hence the reason that the dogs can alert thru 6" of concrete.  It is porous.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:50:41 PM
I must admit I don't remember water ever coming through the door when I sit in the car during an auto carwash, I'm sure this is a highly relevant point. 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 24, 2015, 11:59:50 PM
It has already been explained that this car was nearly new.  Just over 3,000 miles.

It is a nonsense to claim that the doors were opened and closed and the Cadaver odour would stick to the outside of the car.

 The doors were airtight alright



You know, if I were backing Amaral, I would jump at the chance of a pork sandwich scent on fingers causing the scent, cos the other option ain't very palatable, for Amaral and Co.

Like the pile of papers/ folders on top of that cupboard that Eddie alerted to in the second apartment, ain't very palatable either.    Unless the person who owned the papers had been eating a pork sarnie.... %£&)**#



Are you guys sure that you dont want it to be a pork sarnie that is causing all the embarrassing trouble for Amaral?

Absolutely sadie

BTW about your genealogy research. You do know that Astro's real name isn't really Astro don't you ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:03:29 AM
I must admit I don't remember water ever coming through the door when I sit in the car during an auto carwash, I'm sure this is a highly relevant point. 8)--))

Eddie alerted to an impervious door seal
What I am questioning is

"Where did the scent come from?"


Same with the cCat incident.  The scent didn't come from cCat cos Eddie played with it earlier and also passed it several times.
 
As Eddie did alert, the question there is

" How did the cadaver scent get to the papers / folders on top of the cupboard? "  and
" Where did thay come from?  Who had placed them there?"




As I said just, if I were an Amaral supporter, I would be grasping at the possibility of a pork sandwich entering the equation. 

The other obvious conclusion isn't very good for Amaral, is it?

But maybe there is something that we have all missed?  Thinking caps on folks !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 12:24:57 AM
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family, the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door. (MG)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:43:24 AM
Absolutely sadie

BTW about your genealogy research. You do know that Astro's real name isn't really Astro don't you ?
Is it Castro?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 12:45:20 AM
I don't think this thread is any longer "Discussion about the latest news" more like a "bit of all sorts" How can I remedy it, without erasing so much?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 01:01:29 AM

What a difference a few days make !


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry

EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple

The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.

Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.

The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.

However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".

Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.

She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".

The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.

However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.

The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.

At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.

Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.

"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."

Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."

Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.

"The ­documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no ­abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our ­daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.

"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.

She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.

Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.

In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."

Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.

Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
What a difference a few days make !


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry

EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple

The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.

Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.

The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.

However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".

Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.

She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".

The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.

However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.

The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.

At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.

Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.

"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."

Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."

Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.

"The ­documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no ­abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our ­daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.

"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.

She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.

Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.

In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."

Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.

Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough

wow!!! 8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 01:31:39 AM
Smithman efits have also been whooshed from their website. I wonder if he's come forward and handed himself in  8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 25, 2015, 02:00:00 AM
What a difference a few days make !


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry

EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple

The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.

Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.

The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.

However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".

Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.

She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".

The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.

However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.

The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.

At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.

Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.

"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."

Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."

Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.

"The ­documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no ­abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our ­daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.

"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.

She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.

Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.

In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."

Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.

Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough

Dr. Amaral - ever the optimist.
I'm awaiting his withheld revelations about the case with bated breath.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 02:01:53 AM
Smithman efits have also been whooshed from their website. I wonder if he's come forward and handed himself in  8)--))

They have indeed PF. Thankfully though the link to the on-line shop is still there so all is not lost !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 07:10:05 AM
Eddie alerted to an impervious door seal
What I am questioning is

"Where did the scent come from?"


Same with the cCat incident.  The scent didn't come from cCat cos Eddie played with it earlier and also passed it several times.
 
As Eddie did alert, the question there is

" How did the cadaver scent get to the papers / folders on top of the cupboard? "  and
" Where did thay come from?  Who had placed them there?"




As I said just, if I were an Amaral supporter, I would be grasping at the possibility of a pork sandwich entering the equation. 

The other obvious conclusion isn't very good for Amaral, is it?

But maybe there is something that we have all missed?  Thinking caps on folks !

It's about time you found out the difference between manufacturer's claims and real science, along with certain other posters on here.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 07:16:32 AM
What a difference a few days make !


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry

EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple

The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.

Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.

The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.

However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".

Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.

She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".

The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.

However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.

The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.

At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.

Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.

"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."

Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."

Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.

"The ­documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no ­abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our ­daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.

"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.

She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.

Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.

In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."

Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.

Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough

Wow there's a novelty for you.

The Express coming into the real world.

However, I feel sure davel in his dream world will still state the mccanns won the trial. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 07:50:34 AM
Wow there's a novelty for you.

The Express coming into the real world.

However, I feel sure davel in his dream world will still state the mccanns won the trial. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

also   they said the scotland yard  have failed?    guess they  can be called bungling cops too now?? @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 07:53:32 AM
also   they said the scotland yard  have failed?    guess they  can be called bungling cops too now?? @)(++(*

Oh what a surprise.

The mccanns losing the court case

SY without a clue................

What next ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 07:54:57 AM
Smithman efits have also been whooshed from their website. I wonder if he's come forward and handed himself in  8)--))

Indeed.

It's still Christmas in fantasy abduction world.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 07:57:04 AM
Oh what a surprise.

The mccanns losing the court case

SY without a clue................

What next ?

dave worships the mcanns  he may need some  anti anxiety medication   *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 08:00:45 AM
'Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough.'

Absoloute Twaddle.

SY have made enormous strides.

They have found proof of the McCanns innocence, evidence of abduction, Crechedad & Mr Malinka's sofa.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 08:03:09 AM
dave worships the mcanns  he may need some  anti anxiety medication   *&*%£

Indeed he does. ?>)()<
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 08:05:25 AM
'Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough.'

Absoloute Twaddle.

SY have made enormous strides.

They have found proof of the McCanns innocence, evidence of abduction, Crechedad & Mr Malinka's sofa.

Now that's what I call magic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 08:36:56 AM
What a difference a few days make !


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/554107/McCanns-will-lose-1m-trial-Portuguese-judge-s-initial-findings-against-Kate-and-Gerry

EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple

The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.

Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.

The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.

However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".

Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.

She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".

The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.

However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.

The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.

At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.

Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.

"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."

Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."

Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.

"The ­documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no ­abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our ­daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.

"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.

She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.

Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.

In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."

Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.

Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough


While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 08:52:39 AM

While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.

Well as some of the 'mainstream' papers have stated, including the sun, that they will not report anything negative against the sun, or report the mccanns losing the case, don't hold out for much in the papers.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 09:03:40 AM
Well as some of the 'mainstream' papers have stated, including the sun, that they will not report anything negative against the sun, or report the mccanns losing the case, don't hold out for much in the papers.


True, but newspapers have a habit of picking up and reporting what other papers print, so one can live in hopes of a wider dissemination of the details of the case and of the background to it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 09:17:39 AM
I see a lot of people gloating about the trial.

For you who are jumping in glee,    this is a man who mouthed off,   got dumped then   scurried off to make money out of a missing child.    Not as he says to show the truth,  because all of it was just his thesis.    Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book,  ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'.     He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children,  parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner,   parents who when finding Madeleine's body,  hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.

The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it.   Now you tell me,  all you who are excited about the trial.   If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done?    Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR.  You are all HYPOCRITES.  Just look at this forum,   as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way,  all hell breaks loose,  imagine if that person wrote a book about you.    The McCann's  couldn't prove it had harmed the search,  but of course it would have,  when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry,  we believe Madeleine is dead'.     

So,  you have Amaral talking about 'neglect'   oh yes,  I hear you say,  the McCann's are guilty of neglect.  Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it.   What is that if not NEGLECT  they could have all been killed.

Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him,  but what a way to earn it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
I see a lot of people gloating about the trial.

For you who are jumping in glee,    this is a man who mouthed off,   got dumped then   scurried off to make money out of a missing child.    Not as he says to show the truth,  because all of it was just his thesis.    Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book,  ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'.     He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children,  parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner,   parents who when finding Madeleine's body,  hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.

The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it.   Now you tell me,  all you who are excited about the trial.   If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done?    Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR.  You are all HYPOCRITES.  Just look at this forum,   as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way,  all hell breaks loose,  imagine if that person wrote a book about you.    The McCann's  couldn't prove it had harmed the search,  but of course it would have,  when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry,  we believe Madeleine is dead'.     

So,  you have Amaral talking about 'neglect'   oh yes,  I hear you say,  the McCann's are guilty of neglect.  Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it.   What is that if not NEGLECT  they could have all been killed.

Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him,  but what a way to earn it.

Lace.

Whose fault is this whole case ?

Not Amaral, not the Portuguese, not an unproven abductor.

This case starts and finishes with the .................

MCCANNS

So get real.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 09:23:16 AM
I see a lot of people gloating about the trial.

For you who are jumping in glee,    this is a man who mouthed off,   got dumped then   scurried off to make money out of a missing child.    Not as he says to show the truth,  because all of it was just his thesis.    Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book,  ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'.     He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children,  parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner,   parents who when finding Madeleine's body,  hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.

The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it.   Now you tell me,  all you who are excited about the trial.   If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done?    Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR.  You are all HYPOCRITES.  Just look at this forum,   as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way,  all hell breaks loose,  imagine if that person wrote a book about you.    The McCann's  couldn't prove it had harmed the search,  but of course it would have,  when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry,  we believe Madeleine is dead'.     

So,  you have Amaral talking about 'neglect'   oh yes,  I hear you say,  the McCann's are guilty of neglect.  Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it.   What is that if not NEGLECT  they could have all been killed.

Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him,  but what a way to earn it.


Yes, I saw Davel's early posts as well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
Lace.

Whose fault is this whole case ?

Not Amaral, not the Portuguese, not an unproven abductor.

This case starts and finishes with the .................

MCCANNS

So get real.

whats that  saying you play with fire  you get burnt?? *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 09:39:01 AM
whats that  saying you play with fire  you get burnt?? *&*%£

Indeed Carly.

What I have never understood is the rampant devotion shown to these two, by some of their supporters.

Unless of course, the supporters include family and friends. &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:06:28 AM

While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.

Good point...the express is well known for printing sensationalist headlines that have little basis in fact
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:09:43 AM
Good point...the express is well known for printing sensationalist headlines that have little basis in fact

It sell papers and  people will read the article though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 10:10:12 AM
Good point...the express is well known for printing sensationalist headlines that have little basis in fact

Well since the libel trail they have rigidly followed the mccann line.

However, the truth has emerged............
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:14:23 AM
It sell papers and will people  read the article though.

absolutely spot on...and what the Express have been doing for seven years...they are the worst culprits...but they are in business to make money and as long as they stay onside they will continue...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:15:28 AM
Well since the libel trail they have rigidly followed the mccann line.

However, the truth has emerged............

do you understand what the article says...I don't think you do...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 10:18:36 AM
do you understand what the article says...I don't think you do...

I know you are the slow side, but try try to comprehend the mccanns haven't won.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:18:40 AM
Doesn't matter how we interpret it, its how the general public take the information on board that is more important.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:19:14 AM
It's about time you found out the difference between manufacturer's claims and real science, along with certain other posters on here.
I feel sorry for you if your car lets in water and draughts.  Especially if you are from Scotland.     Where the wind blows hard and cold ion the winter    And the freezing rain driving in ....

BRRRR..........



Maybe you should try and buy yourself a modern car Stephen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:21:55 AM
Doesn't matter how we interpret it, its how the general public take the information on board that is more important.

spot on again....the general public will read it and believe it ...does that matter...no
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:22:23 AM
also   they said the scotland yard  have failed?    guess they  can be called bungling cops too now?? @)(++(*
No SY did a good job... a very good job.

Just because they haven't been able to arrest anyone atm doesn't mean that they dont know who is behind the abduction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 10:24:06 AM
I feel sorry for you if your car lets in water and draughts.  Especially if you are from Scotland.     Where the wind blows hard and cold ion the winter    And the freezing rain driving in ....

BRRRR..........



Maybe you should try and buy yourself a modern car Stephen.

Oh dear sadie, and you claim to be an engineer.

You clearly lack a grasp of basic physics.

I'm not living in Scotland.

So much for your powers of deduction and investigative skills.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:25:43 AM
spot on again....the general public will read it and believe it ...does that matter...no

Oh I think it does. Public opinion seems very important to the McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:26:41 AM
Oh I think it does. Public opinion seems very important to the McCanns.

you think it does....tomorrows chip paper is not that important...the truth is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
Indeed Carly.

What I have never understood is the rampant devotion shown to these two, by some of their supporters.

Unless of course, the supporters include family and friends. &%+((£

LOL at the irony.

This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is  the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman.     To go to those extremes really  is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.

The crown is yours Stephen.



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:32:22 AM
Oh dear sadie, and you claim to be an engineer.

You clearly lack a grasp of basic physics.

I'm not living in Scotland.

So much for your powers of deduction and investigative skills.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*

I suggest that you get out there and buy yourself a new car if your car lets in the rain, any water or has draughts thru the doors.


Modern cars DO NOT.  The seals are too good.  They are airtight and waterproof, no scents would go through them




I have never tried to find where you live Stephen.  So long as it isn't near me, I couldn't care less  8(0(*

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:36:46 AM
LOL at the irony.

This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is  the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman.     To go to those extremes really  is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.

The crown is yours Stephen.
One has to wonder why he is always at it , deriding / destroying ONE specific family?

There has to be a reason.




What is YOUR agenda Stephen?

Who is pulling YOUR strings?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
I see a lot of people gloating about the trial.

For you who are jumping in glee,    this is a man who mouthed off,   got dumped then   scurried off to make money out of a missing child.    Not as he says to show the truth,  because all of it was just his thesis.    Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book,  ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'.     He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children,  parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner,   parents who when finding Madeleine's body,  hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.

The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it.   Now you tell me,  all you who are excited about the trial.   If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done?    Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR.  You are all HYPOCRITES.  Just look at this forum,   as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way,  all hell breaks loose,  imagine if that person wrote a book about you.    The McCann's  couldn't prove it had harmed the search,  but of course it would have,  when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry,  we believe Madeleine is dead'.     

So,  you have Amaral talking about 'neglect'   oh yes,  I hear you say,  the McCann's are guilty of neglect.  Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it.   What is that if not NEGLECT  they could have all been killed.

Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him,  but what a way to earn it.


 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(


Not as he says to show the truth,  because all of it was just his thesis.    Yet he calls the book  "THE TRUTH OF THE LIE"

Duplicioius man, and let us not forget,  a criminal to boot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 10:46:25 AM
So does that mean we can cross the Express off the list of papers controlled by the McCanns once and for all?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:49:31 AM
So does that mean we can cross the Express off the list of papers controlled by the McCanns once and for all?


Never say never. Allegiances can come and go in the twinkling of a lawyer's writ
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 10:56:15 AM

Never say never. Allegiances can come and go in the twinkling of a lawyer's writ
The Express has always had it in for the McCanns, though sometimes the fist was wrapped in a velvet glove.  This latest article tells us only what Gonc told us in his latest interview so nothing we didn't already know.  Perhaps some people should leave off their bouncing until the verdict is finally revealed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 10:56:56 AM
LOL at the irony.

This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is  the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman.     To go to those extremes really  is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.

The crown is yours Stephen.


 8@??)( 8@??)(    8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 10:58:13 AM
One has to wonder why he is always at it , deriding / destroying ONE specific family?

There has to be a reason.




What is YOUR agenda Stephen?

Who is pulling YOUR strings?

For goodness sake just grow up.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 10:58:40 AM
LOL at the irony.

This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is  the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman.     To go to those extremes really  is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.

The crown is yours Stephen.

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:02:44 AM
I suggest that you get out there and buy yourself a new car if your car lets in the rain, any water or has draughts thru the doors.


Modern cars DO NOT.  The seals are too good.  They are airtight and waterproof, no scents would go through them




I have never tried to find where you live Stephen.  So long as it isn't near me, I couldn't care less  8(0(*

I know you find basic science difficult to comprehend Sadie, but how can you smell odours from outside a car , if you are inside a 'sealed' vehicle ?

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:04:24 AM
LOL at the irony.

This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is  the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman.     To go to those extremes really  is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.

The crown is yours Stephen.

No benice.

The DEVOTION witnessed on a daily basis, is those like you to the mccanns.

It has become, very ,very sad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 11:05:26 AM
For goodness sake just grow up.

LOL at even more supreme irony.   

You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:05:55 AM
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(

and here's another one whose is devoted to the McCann's, davel.

 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:06:51 AM
and here's another one whose is devoted to the McCann's, davel.

 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#


You are devoted to Amaral,   who has been PROVEN to be a liar and neglected his children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:07:47 AM

You are devoted to Amaral,   who has been PROVEN to be a liar and neglected his children.


So?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:08:35 AM
and here's another one whose is devoted to the McCann's, davel.

 %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

nota  good week for mcann supporters... fund  drying up and now a  uk  main stream paper saying the mcanns unlikley to win?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:09:08 AM

You are devoted to Amaral,   who has been PROVEN to be a liar and neglected his children.

Sorry to disappoint you, yet again.

I'm not devoted to Amaral and I've not donated to anyone in this case.

  8((()*/

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:09:32 AM

So?

didnt the mcanns alleged neglect  lead to maddie vanishing in the least??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:10:26 AM

So?
's

They are all the things that Stephen keeps crowing about the McCann's isn't it,    he says the pro McCann's are devoted to lying parents who neglected their children.    Maybe you don't see the irony in that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:11:58 AM
didnt the mcanns alleged neglect  lead to maddie vanishing in the least??


The McCann's shouldn't have left the children,   but they did not want them to be harmed.    What do you call someone who drives with their children in the car DRUNK?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
's

They are all the things that Stephen keeps crowing about the McCann's isn't it,    he says the pro McCann's are devoted to lying parents who neglected their children.    Maybe you don't see the irony in that.

Stephen has denied any such devotion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 11:13:37 AM

You are devoted to Amaral,   who has been PROVEN to be a liar and neglected his children.
He is also a criminal who was relieved of his job.

High principles you seem to have Stephen, being devoted to such a man !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:15:06 AM
nota  good week for mcann supporters... fund  drying up and now a  uk  main stream paper saying the mcanns unlikley to win?

Shame, isn't it.

It's driving some McCann supporters mad.

Metaphorically of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:15:41 AM
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is  it because the mcanns  are unlikley to  win against  GA?   GA  would be open to sue  people who have damaged his reputation too
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:17:22 AM
He is also a criminal who was relieved of his job.

High principles you seem to have Stephen, being devoted to such a man !

I'm not devoted to him Sadie.

You really are slow picking that nu.

Also, of course the irony being the McCann's have tried to destroy Amaral.

Not going quite the way they expected.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 11:17:56 AM
I know you find basic science difficult to comprehend Sadie, but how can you smell odours from outside a car , if you are inside a 'sealed' vehicle ?
Comes through the air induction system.  Have you seen the vents at the front?

Does NOT come through metal and Does NOT come through a plastic seal


Wake up at the back Stephen
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:18:16 AM
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is  it because the mcanns  are unlikley to  win against  GA?   GA  would be open to sue  people who have damaged his reputation too

No doubt its because of heretical tracts - and on a Sunday, too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:18:54 AM
Stephen has denied any such devotion.


Stephen has denied it has he.    Well others have denied being devoted to the McCann's,  it doesn't stop Stephen coming out with the same tripe over and over does it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:20:37 AM
No doubt its because of heretical tracts - and on a Sunday, too.

its true though that if  GA  wanted too he could  sue mcann supporters for all that they have said about him over the years  ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:21:11 AM
I'm not devoted to him Sadie.

You really are slow picking that nu.

Also, of course the irony being the McCann's have tried to destroy Amaral.

Not going quite the way they expected.

Tried to destroy Amaral !!!!     Excuse me,    who wrote a book?      Was that book not set out to destroy the McCann's?     Wake up man.    it was certainly not written to show them as a lovely family was it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:21:19 AM

Stephen has denied it has he.    Well others have denied being devoted to the McCann's,  it doesn't stop Stephen coming out with the same tripe over and over does it.

Tripe is the word I apply to people who come out with rubbish and back  the McCann's to the exclusion of all logic and reason.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 11:21:40 AM
Stephen has denied any such devotion.

It has been explained to Stephen many times that folk support the McCanns  because they are appalled at the cruelty, laced with lies and disinformation which is constantly aimed at that family.      They also support justice, and believe in the concept of innocent until proved guilty.  They do not support witchhunts, lynchmobs and kangaroo courts.

When Stephen accepts that -  then I will accept that he doesn't worship the ground Amaral walks on.

That seems fair enough - don't you agree?



 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:22:00 AM
its true though that if  GA  wanted too he could  sue mcann supporters for all that they have said about him over the years  ....


 *&*%£ *&*%£ *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:22:41 AM

 *&*%£ *&*%£ *&*%£

laugh all you like its true
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:23:45 AM
Tried to destroy Amaral !!!!     Excuse me,    who wrote a book?      Was that book not set out to destroy the McCann's?     Wake up man.    it was certainly not written to show them as a lovely family was it.

Who exposed their children to unnecessary danger, and as a consequence  their eldest child disappeared ?

It's time you woke up and smelt the coffee.

All that is visible this morning is rage from the McCann supporters as the trial has not turned out thge way they expected.

TOUGH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:23:49 AM
Tripe is the word I apply to people who come out with rubbish and back  the McCann's to the exclusion of all logic and reason.

So,   tell me Stephen what tripe would that be?    That there was an abduction?    SY seems to think there was.   Now,  if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:24:34 AM
So,   tell me Stephen what tripe would that be?    That there was an abduction?    SY seems to think there was.   Now,  if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?

What abduction ?

Pure make believe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:25:25 AM
Who exposed their children to unnecessary danger, and as a consequence  their eldest child disappeared ?

It's time you woke up and smelt the coffee.

All that is visible this morning is rage from the McCann supporters as the trial has not turned out thge way they expected.

TOUGH.


Who drove their car DRUNK with his children in the back?    THEY COULD HAVE ALL DIED.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:25:59 AM
What abduction ?

Pure make believe.

There you go,    Amaral devotee.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:26:21 AM
Comes through the air induction system.  Have you seen the vents at the front?

Does NOT come through metal and Does NOT come through a plastic seal


Wake up at the back Stephen

I.e.molecules of various gases can diffuse into a vehicle and be adsorbed onto materials there.

Simple physics.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:27:32 AM

Who drove their car DRUNK with his children in the back?    THEY COULD HAVE ALL DIED.

Is this news?

Off topic, I think.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:29:39 AM
laugh all you like its true

Ah well,   lets see now.

Lace says you are a liar   PROVED

Lace says you drove your car whilst drunk with the children in the back  PROVED

Lace says you mouthed off and got removed PROVED

Lace says you wrote a book and painted the McCann's as neglectful,  swinging parents who drugged their children   PROVED.

Lace says you then accused the McCann's of hiding Madeleine's body and making up an abduction story PROVED

Lace says the McCann's are innocent    I have a right to my opinion.

Anything else?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:31:55 AM
Is this news?

Off topic, I think.

Not off topic,  just saying Amaral was neglectful of his children.    He neglected his children,  would he be capable  of making up a story if he had crashed and killed them?   Would he hide their bodies?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:35:36 AM
Is this news?

Off topic, I think.

Yep, mere diversion from a McCann supporter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:36:08 AM
Not off topic,  just saying Amaral was neglectful of his children.    He neglected his children,  would he be capable  of making up a story if he had crashed and killed them?   Would he hide their bodies?

Again is any of this news?

More off topic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:36:57 AM
Yep, mere diversion from a McCann supporter.

they seem a bit stressed dont they?? 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
they seem a bit stressed dont they?? 8)--))

I wonder why. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 11:38:04 AM
Oh really?

So in your car you feel a draft when you are driving at high speed?

Not in my car.... nor any car that I have driven

I never feel a draught



Same on aircraft.  Strange but I never feel a draft on them either.

You don't have to feel a draught for a  seal not to be airtight. If you feel a draught in a car the seal is defective and /or worn which is a different condition but the seal will never be airtight unless done by selective fitting and putting a ring of bolts around the door to pull it down the door lock not being able to pull down sufficiently.
The door seals on aircraft work on a different principle. They are plug doors forced into the aperture and thus sealing by pressure differential inside to out. The cabin is pressurised to about 80kPa  the external pressure at cruising altitude being about 30kPa. So 50kPa is shoving the door onto the seal.
An aircraft cabin is not airtight either. There is a constants bleed out necessitating top up and the whole is controlled by a valve bleeding to atmosphere.
So your aircraft analogy is hardly appropriate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:44:26 AM
I wonder why. 8)-)))

 8)-))) the express wouldnt of printed it  unless it  was true   dont they have to   run news storys though lawyers etc?? 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:45:13 AM
Yep, mere diversion from a McCann supporter.

It's you who diverts with 'devoted to the McCann's'   at every opportunity,  or 'it all comes back to the neglect of the McCann's'.

Now I expect Amaral would be aghast at the thought that anyone would suspect him of making up a story if anything had happened to his children in his car.   But that is what he accused the McCann's of.   It isn't about the neglect it's about the story he wrote about the McCann's drugging their children and hiding Madeleine's body.  Get it now?




Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 11:49:39 AM

http://portugalresident.com/as-dust-set ... ctly-shaky

As dust settles on judge’s findings, McCann €1.2 million “libel win” looks distinctly shaky

It took some hours for the much-awaited “reading of the proven facts” to come through last week - and even then newspapers here and abroad got it wrong.

In Britain, the Daily Express ran with the headline: “Kate and Gerry McCann win court ruling in £1 million libel battle against ex-police chief”.

Here, Lusa news agency proclaimed “Court rules damages caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann proved”.

But they both jumped the gun.

Within hours Público realised the mistake and pulled the Lusa story from its website, running instead with the much-fairer “Court proves Kate and Gerry McCann were “not destroyed” by book by Gonçalo Amaral”.

Lusa regained its equilibrium, posting a revised story the next day carrying much the same headline.

And then this morning (Sunday), four days after judge Emília Mello e Castro handed the lawyers her “reading of the proven facts” - the cornerstones on which she will base her judgement on the long-running case - the Express has done a complete U-turn, running with a new headline proclaiming: “Exclusive: McCann’s will lose £1 million libel trial”

In fact, the exclusive belongs to the Algarve’s Len Port - the only journalist who got the story right first time.

Writing on his Portugal Newswatch blogsite, reproduced regularly by this Portugal Resident news portal, Port’s Wednesday post: “Amaral supporters optimistic about judge’s rulings in McCann libel case” was, in the end, a far more succinct version of what unfolded in Lisbon four days ago.

The reason for the confusion was perhaps two-fold. First, it took reporters time to get their hands on Emília Mello e Castro’s complete list of “proven facts” in the case that centres on Amaral’s book, A Verdade da Mentira (The Truth of the Lie); and second, there appears to have been a degree of press manipulation.

But now that the facts are in the public domain, we can summarise key findings.

Certainly, the likelihood of a resounding McCann win looks distinctly shaky.

Port’s report of “cautious optimism” among Amaral supporters was in itself characteristically cautious.

Supporters of the beleaguered former police inspector targeted by the McCann’s are positively crowing from the rooftops.

“As of Wednesday, the McCann ship is beyond repair”, jubilant Textusa blog reported.

The UK’s Miscarriage of Justice forum took to Twitter to confirm: “Court holds as not proven that book hampered search for Madeleine”, while myriad followers of the case were enthusiastic about what they called the “wonderful news coming from Portugal”.

It was a window in on the welter of support for Amaral’s right to have written his hypothesis for the disappearance of the world’s most famous missing person seven years ago.

As he has frequently told interviewers since the McCann’s lodged their civil action for a reported €1.2 million in damages against him, his life has been made a misery by their action and his “civil position” a target for what he terms “assassination”.

Talking to RTP as the dust began to settle last week, Amaral elaborated on the hiccups caused by what he termed “complete manipulation of the media”.

“Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides”, he said. “I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there has been completely false news about me”.

Amaral also elaborated on the “assassination of his civil position”.

“In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. That alerted the family and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon… he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte… what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, at stake”.

It was at this point, Amaral told his interviewer, that the McCanns started “thinking about the lawsuit” that is now in its final stages.

Key facts proven and unproven:

Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book (Truth of the Lie), in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? Not proved

Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them? Not proved

Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear? Proved, but the judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.

Because of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, author Kate McCann is immersed in a deep and serious depression, which has already made her state publicly “I wish I was in a coma, to relieve the pain”? Not proved

The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published? Not proved

For a full list of the proven facts, see the maddiecasefiles.com.

As Len Port explained in his initial report on the judge’s findings: “The McCanns now have time to seek and present authorisation from the British High Court to formally represent their daughter in this case. Madeleine was made a ward of court at the instigation of her parents in April 2008. This could have a bearing on the amount of any compensation eventually awarded”.

“No date has been set for a verdict but it is thought to be more than two months away. Even when it comes, the verdict will probably not be the end of the matter. An appeal is likely.”

The veteran journalist concluded: “Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him”.

Natasha Donn
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:50:43 AM


Just get over yourself Lace.

The McCann's got their just desserts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:01:15 PM
It's you who diverts with 'devoted to the McCann's'   at every opportunity,  or 'it all comes back to the neglect of the McCann's'.

Now I expect Amaral would be aghast at the thought that anyone would suspect him of making up a story if anything had happened to his children in his car.   But that is what he accused the McCann's of.   It isn't about the neglect it's about the story he wrote about the McCann's drugging their children and hiding Madeleine's body.  Get it now?

Sadly the record gets stuck.  I am sorry for you Stephen.  Your lack of understanding and ability to keep on spouting the same old rubbish over and over is unbelievable TBH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 12:08:20 PM

Just get over yourself Lace.

The McCann's got their just desserts.



NO ONE deserves to have their child abducted Stephen.    You show yourself in your true colours.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 25, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
Comes through the air induction system.  Have you seen the vents at the front?

Does NOT come through metal and Does NOT come through a plastic seal


Wake up at the back Stephen

Strange how according to the supporters, scents can be transferred easily when it benefits the McCanns but not when it doesn't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:14:23 PM
So,   tell me Stephen what tripe would that be?    That there was an abduction?    SY seems to think there was.   Now,  if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?

Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.

Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?

Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?

Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?

Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?

Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:16:20 PM


NO ONE deserves to have their child abducted Stephen.    You show yourself in your true colours .

For writing a post like that, it is you shown in your true colours. That was a dreadful thing to say about another poster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 12:19:33 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.

Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?

Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?

Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?

Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?

Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?

It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....

unbelievable I know...but true
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 12:21:12 PM
Sadly the record gets stuck.  I am sorry for you Stephen.  Your lack of understanding and ability to keep on spouting the same old rubbish over and over is unbelievable TBH.

The clear typing of rubbish Sadie belongs to club McCann and people like you.

In fact you and your fellows have become master of thge art of rubbish.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 12:24:40 PM
Please, refrain from posting, remarks of  a  goading or insulting nature…Thank you


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 12:25:19 PM
It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....

unbelievable I know...but true

SY believe it was abduction don't they, because Mr McSmithDad & & Mrs Smelly trousers said it was.

Course, Hulk seems to think she was murdered, for some reason.

Can't imagine why.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:27:52 PM
It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....

unbelievable I know...but true

The irrefutable evidence exonerating the McCanns hasn`t been revealed yet though........which still renders you faith driven and the McCanns beleaguered,  perhaps unnecessarily.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 12:28:37 PM
For writing a post like that, it is you shown in your true colours. That was a dreadful thing to say about another poster.


Why is it dreadful?     Stephen is forever saying it is all down to the McCann's,   in other words it's their fault.

The McCann's shouldn't have left their children alone,   but no one deserves to have their child taken.   
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 12:30:11 PM

Why is it dreadful?     Stephen is forever saying it is all down to the McCann's,   in other words it's their fault.

The McCann's shouldn't have left their children alone,   but no one deserves to have their child taken.

The question is who removed Madeleine from the apartment.

Nae proof of an abductor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 12:40:53 PM
The irrefutable evidence exonerating the McCanns hasn`t been revealed yet though........which still renders you faith driven and the McCanns beleaguered,  perhaps unnecessarily.

since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 12:43:59 PM
Investigating police require it - they usually call it an alibi.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 12:45:09 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925419/Kate-Gerry-McCann-hurt-former-police-chief-s-book-missing-Madeleine-judge-finds.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 12:46:35 PM
The question is who removed Madeleine from the apartment.

Nae proof of an abductor.


It wasn't the McCann's   SY have said the McCann's and their friends are not suspects or persons of interest.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 12:47:42 PM
Investigating police require it - they usually call it an alibi.

so you think an alibl eqates to irrefutable evidence...then the mccanns have irrefutable evidence...
The police may ask for an alibi but the fact someone doesn't have one is not an indication of guilt......
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 12:48:15 PM
since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....

How have they been ruled out?

That is the question.

Must be cause of all that abduction evidence SY have uncovered, the stuff which points to some burglars, a gardener, the receptionist & a pig farmer having conspired to abduct/murder Maddie, change her pyjama top & then make off on foot with her, disguised as her dad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 12:49:11 PM
It's interesting that as far as I am aware neither the Mail or the Express has added to their articles the 'fact' that the couple McCann have been cleared of all suspicion by SY. That seems to have been a prerequisite for all McCann articles recently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
so you think an alibl eqates to irrefutable evidence...then the mccanns have irrefutable evidence...
The police may ask for an alibi but the fact someone doesn't have one is not an indication of guilt......

No, but it puts you in the frame until the police are satisfied otherwise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 12:52:40 PM
No, but it puts you in the frame until the police are satisfied otherwise.

can we discuss one point at a time...you likened an alibi to irrefutable evidence...absolute rubbish on your behalf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:58:51 PM
since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....

You misinterpret.......

...........irrefutable evidence from SY regarding the impossibility of the McCanns involvement which has led to the assertion that they are not suspects.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 01:03:44 PM
can we discuss one point at a time...you likened an alibi to irrefutable evidence...absolute rubbish on your behalf

Since when is an unbreakable alibi not irrefutable evidence?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 01:04:12 PM

It wasn't the McCann's   SY have said the McCann's and their friends are not suspects or persons of interest.

and SY are at square one, because they have found NOTHING.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 01:05:35 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.

Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?

Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?

Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?

Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?

Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?

I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.

The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 01:06:16 PM
and SY are at square one, because they have found NOTHING.

As they seem to be running low on 'persons of interest', they will need to be casting their eye around for some more.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 01:06:20 PM
You misinterpret.......

...........irrefutable evidence from SY regarding the impossibility of the McCanns involvement which has led to the assertion that they are not suspects.

I don't misinterpret anything...your request for irrefutable evidence is ridiculous
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 01:08:39 PM
Since when is an unbreakable alibi not irrefutable evidence?

when the alibi is not irrefutable.....you may note there was no mention of an unbreakable alibi in your original post...just alibi...when you have lost the argument ...just change to a new one
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 01:13:06 PM
Please, refrain from posting, remarks of  a  goading or insulting nature…Such posts will be removed..Thank you




Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 01:16:47 PM
I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.

The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.

Cousre SY have ruled the McCanns out because of a lack of evidence, whereas there is an abundance of evidence against a bus driver, the receptionist & a pig farmer, hence the reason they haven't been.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:18:02 PM
It has been explained to Stephen many times that folk support the McCanns  because they are appalled at the cruelty, laced with lies and disinformation which is constantly aimed at that family.      They also support justice, and believe in the concept of innocent until proved guilty.  They do not support witchhunts, lynchmobs and kangaroo courts.

When Stephen accepts that -  then I will accept that he doesn't worship the ground Amaral walks on.

That seems fair enough - don't you agree?

So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............

........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them
.........do not support justice
.........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty
.........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them

I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns. 

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:21:21 PM
I don't misinterpret anything...your request for irrefutable evidence is ridiculous

Yes you do...........and no I don`t "request" anything.............

SY could help the McCanns by producing that which has led them to assert the "non-suspect" status.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:22:34 PM
I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.

The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.


.............and non which directly clears them from any involvement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 01:23:18 PM
Cousre SY have ruled the McCanns out because of a lack of evidence, whereas there is an abundance of evidence against a bus driver, the receptionist & a pig farmer, hence the reason they haven't been.

and let's never forget Mr. Spotty.

A prime candidate for nothing at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............

........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them
.........do not support justice
.........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty
.........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them

I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns.

I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..


I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 01:28:43 PM
I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..


I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil

I believe Mr Redwood was disingenuous, I don't believe it was an accident, I take a day off every now & then, don't use twitter & the McCanns are fair game.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:29:16 PM
I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..


I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil

Well........quite.........which as I said justifies in your collective minds the behaviour and attitude of "supporters"


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 01:29:40 PM
Yes you do...........and no I don`t "request" anything.............

SY could help the McCanns by producing that which has led them to assert the "non-suspect" status.
The Met are helping the McCanns by trying to find their child, or at least to find out what happened to her.  In the fullness of time they will no doubt report back to the general public but as they have said time and again their job is not to give a running commentary on the investigation which is fair enough in my book.  In the meantime it should be enough to take at face value statements issued by the Met without having to doubt every word they say or to read hidden meaning in to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 01:33:13 PM
So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............

........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them
.........do not support justice
.........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty
.........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them

I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns.
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off?  Or don't you see that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 01:35:53 PM
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off?  Or don't you see that?

Sort of like Newtons third law really  8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
Ha Ha. Mr Mitchell couldn't have put it better.

It's been noted before that when (UK) police speak out in defence of people, they do so because they mean it.

Long before the culprit was apprehended, police commended Jo Yeates' partner, Greg Reardon, as a first-class witness.

They said it because they meant it ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 01:38:57 PM
Please, refrain from posting, remarks of  a  goading or insulting nature…Thank you


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:44:28 PM
The Met are helping the McCanns by trying to find their child, or at least to find out what happened to her.  In the fullness of time they will no doubt report back to the general public but as they have said time and again their job is not to give a running commentary on the investigation which is fair enough in my book.  In the meantime it should be enough to take at face value statements issued by the Met without having to doubt every word they say or to read hidden meaning in to them.

"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......

Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:55:53 PM
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off?  Or don't you see that?

Not the point.........

It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........

..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 02:00:13 PM
Not the point.........

It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........

..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.

Nothing wrong with raising questions......what is wrong is accusing the McCanns of criminal acts

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......

Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?
I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc.  And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 25, 2015, 02:18:07 PM
"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......

Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?

It has possibly escaped your notice that this is a Portuguese led investigation.  In case you have forgotten this entails the investigation falling under the very strict Portuguese Judicial Secrecy Laws.

Therefore if you have any understanding of the situation you will realise that there will be no gratuitous information emanating from SY .

I don't think it was possible for DCI Redwood and his superior officers to anticipate that there are people around whose intelligence is so limited it is impossible for them to understand plain English ... "Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects."

This is an active investigation into a missing child yet there are those who act as if it is reality TV and seem to expect that every shred of evidence the police have should be published in a F/B page or a You tube video.

Madeleine McCann should be the focus here ... not a vendetta against her parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 02:24:26 PM
I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc.  And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it.


There you go............an assertion too far, without backup............just insult a "doubter" regardless .



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 02:32:26 PM
It has possibly escaped your notice that this is a Portuguese led investigation.  In case you have forgotten this entails the investigation falling under the very strict Portuguese Judicial Secrecy Laws.

Therefore if you have any understanding of the situation you will realise that there will be no gratuitous information emanating from SY .

I don't think it was possible for DCI Redwood and his superior officers to anticipate that there are people around whose intelligence is so limited it is impossible for them to understand plain English ... "Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects."

This is an active investigation into a missing child yet there are those who act as if it is reality TV and seem to expect that every shred of evidence the police have should be published in a F/B page or a You tube video.

Madeleine McCann should be the focus here ... not a vendetta against her parents.


The search for Madeleine should be the focus, of her parents if no one else. So don't you find it strange that they are proactively hindering that search by not displaying the efits released by SY on their campaign and Facebook pages ( the only awareness raising vehicles they use these days ) as well as not encouraging their supporters to do th same ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 02:33:12 PM

There you go............an assertion too far, without backup............just insult a "doubter" regardless .

Andy Redwood has said that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects, and yet what he says is not believed in certain quarters.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 02:39:06 PM

There you go............an assertion too far, without backup............just insult a "doubter" regardless .
Am I wrong then?  Do you accept at face value the statement from Andy Redwood that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 02:40:24 PM

The search for Madeleine should be the focus, of her parents if no one else. So don't you find it strange that they are proactively hindering that search by not displaying the efits released by SY on their campaign and Facebook pages ( the only awareness raising vehicles they use these days ) as well as not encouraging their supporters to do th same ?
The e-fits were posted several times on the FB page - so much for "proactively hindering". 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 02:49:35 PM
And this is under audio 5 the last one  @)(++(*

http://findmadeleine.com/videos/WITNESS%205%20AUDIO.mp3
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 02:52:17 PM
Am I wrong then?  Do you accept at face value the statement from Andy Redwood that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest?

"I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc. And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it. "

Your post above prompted to my response, so yes you are wrong.

The met have not "supplied their reasons" as you put it.

As is oft pointed out.....this is an ongoing investigation and we are not given a running commentary,........ which apparently includes any reasons behind the McCann non-suspect status.........

We don`t know who will be considered suspects in an investigation which has not been concluded.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 02:57:35 PM
Not the point.........

It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........

..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.

Certainly among those who are close followers of events, it can only ever be a matter of opinion about those who continue to insist that the McCanns are not definitely established as innocent whether they are deluded or pursuing a nefarious agenda.

It can only be one or the other.

There is literally no excuse for anyone who has followed events closely to spout opinions of suspicion about the McCanns or any of their friends.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 03:00:37 PM
The e-fits were posted several times on the FB page - so much for "proactively hindering".

Too bad if the person with 'that missing piece of the jigsaw' looked at their Facebook page at a time when they weren't posted huh ?

Any reason you can think of why the efits aren't displayed in a prominent place on their campaign and Facebook page ALL THE TIME seeing as SY feel he is so important ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 03:40:40 PM
Too bad if the person with 'that missing piece of the jigsaw' looked at their Facebook page at a time when they weren't posted huh ?

Any reason you can think of why the efits aren't displayed in a prominent place on their campaign and Facebook page ALL THE TIME seeing as SY feel he is so important ?
Maybe Scotland Yard have now identified and eliminated this person already.  When was the last time the Met were actively promoting this e-fit?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 03:57:10 PM
Maybe Scotland Yard have now identified and eliminated this person already.  When was the last time the Met were actively promoting this e-fit?

Eliminated in your dreams. He gave the time away %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:18:45 PM
Eliminated in your dreams. He gave the time away %£&)**#
Please don't be silly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 04:22:01 PM
Please don't be silly.

No Smithman was arrogant and extremely silly. Let's all split up and search for her  %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:24:53 PM
No Smithman was arrogant and extremely silly. Let's all split up and search for her  %£&)**#
You're persisting with your silliness.  The Met do not issue e-fits of someone who is sitting on the couch next to them.  Please get real.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public?
The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme?
Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 04:28:30 PM
You're persisting with your silliness.  The Met do not issue e-fits of someone who is sitting on the couch next to them.  Please get real.

They haven't got any choice in the matter. Ever heard the saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:30:59 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public?
The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme?
Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
So they've had plenty of time to identify / eliminate the Smith -fit since then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 04:33:03 PM
So they've had plenty of time to identify / eliminate the Smith -fit since then.

It's a game of deception until they get what they need and then attack unexpectedly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 04:33:53 PM
You're persisting with your silliness.  The Met do not issue e-fits of someone who is sitting on the couch next to them.  Please get real.

Did they really?
Will you please give the rough running time on the CW prog? That will be worth looking at.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:34:11 PM
They haven't got any choice in the matter. Ever heard the saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Ever heard of the saying "mad as a box of frogs"?  Well you'd have to be to think the Met went on air with a photofit of Gerry McCann to get the public to phone in and id it. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
It has also been known for those actually under suspicion in a crime to make televised appeals to the public whilst sitting alongside Police officers.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:35:33 PM
Did they really?
Will you please give the rough running time on the CW prog? That will be worth looking at.
About an hour isn't it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:36:51 PM
It has also been known for those actually under suspicion in a crime to make televised appeals to the public whilst sitting alongside Police officers.
Has it been known for police to issue e-fits of suspects who are already known to them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 25, 2015, 04:37:04 PM
So they've had plenty of time to identify / eliminate the Smith -fit since then.

Or they never took them seriously in the first place. They were just useful to OG at the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 04:40:02 PM
Has it been known for police to issue e-fits of suspects who are already known to them?

You don`t know what their reasoning is or what`s going on really, do you ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:41:21 PM
You don`t know what their reasoning is or what`s going on really, do you ?
And you do?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:43:12 PM
Or they never took them seriously in the first place. They were just useful to OG at the time.
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 04:43:34 PM
It has also been known for those actually under suspicion in a crime to make televised appeals to the public whilst sitting alongside Police officers.

Or, let documentary film crews into their homes & go on chat shows to make appeals for the return of a missing person, whom they had in fact dismembered in a bath tub & disposed of in plastic bags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Oode9t6Yo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?

Yes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:45:48 PM
Yes.
why would they do that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 04:46:33 PM
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?

Oh I think it's highly likely. Nothing better to knock them off kilter !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 25, 2015, 04:46:43 PM
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?

Nobody knows much for certain in this case, and I've no doubt that includes British police. I don't think the investigation is independent, so what the officers themselves may or may not think is irrelevant. They're just doing a job. Imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 04:49:41 PM
And you do?

Of course not..........but I`m not deciding what they would or wouldn`t think or do, either !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:57:48 PM
Oh I think it's highly likely. Nothing better to knock them off kilter !
It didn't really seem to have that effect did it?  Neither McCann looked particularly "knocked off kilter" on Crimewatch seconds after Redwood revealed these e-fits to the public, and it's also very interesting to note that Redwood also drew the public's attention to 4 other e-fits, none of whom resembles Gerry or any other member of the McCanns' holiday party, but you conveniently forget those e-fits. What was that all about then? Knocking them off kilter and then knocking them back on kilter? *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 04:58:49 PM
I.e.molecules of various gases can diffuse into a vehicle and be adsorbed onto materials there.

Simple physics.
Yep they can diffuse into interior fabric, but start thinking Stephen

Diffuse into steel on the outside via an imperiable seal?  What rubbish you spout Stephen.  Claptrap !



Simple physics.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 25, 2015, 05:00:58 PM
Strange how according to the supporters, scents can be transferred easily when it benefits the McCanns but not when it doesn't.

To quote sadie, bump.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:01:28 PM
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?

Yes for more possible eye witnesses to come forward.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:02:36 PM
Strange how according to the supporters, scents can be transferred easily when it benefits the McCanns but not when it doesn't.
Not through inpermeable seals Slarti

Nor through steel, which also is impermeable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 25, 2015, 05:04:32 PM
Not through inpermeable seals Slarti

Nor through steel, which also is impermeable.

So you think it isn't possible to brush a trouser leg on the outside of a car sill?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 05:04:56 PM
It didn't really seem to have that effect did it?  Neither McCann looked particularly "knocked off kilter" on Crimewatch seconds after Redwood revealed these e-fits to the public, and it's also very interesting to note that Redwood also drew the public's attention to 4 other e-fits, none of whom resembles Gerry or any other member of the McCanns' holiday party, but you conveniently forget those e-fits. What was that all about then? Knocking them off kilter and then knocking them back on kilter? *&*%£

Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:06:18 PM
The clear typing of rubbish Sadie belongs to club McCann and people like you.

In fact you and your fellows have become master of thge art of rubbish.

Would you like to tell us just who Cuib Mccann are?

I would like to meet them and commiserate that they have to put up with stuck records, foul propaganda and lying youtubes etc
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 05:08:05 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:09:01 PM
and SY are at square one, because they have found NOTHING.
Taps the side of her nose knowingly

Dont you believe it



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 05:10:05 PM
So you think it isn't possible to brush a trouser leg on the outside of a car sill?

bump for Sadie
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 05:11:49 PM


Thanks WS. That's the one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:16:00 PM
McCann interview taken a few days after they were accused by the PJ of being involved in their daughter's disappearance. Gerry is smirking when asked about hearing about any sightings of Madeleine &%+((£




Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:19:05 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public?
The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme?
Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
Have you forgotten the Crimewatch program in Spring 2014 ?

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:25:29 PM
So you think it isn't possible to brush a trouser leg on the outside of a car sill?
Carefully along the actual door opening crack ?

Come on Slarti, pull the other one
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 05:26:39 PM
McCann interview taken a few days after they were accused by the PJ of being involved in their daughter's disappearance. Gerry is smirking when asked about hearing about any sightings of Madeleine &%+((£


It's called 'duping delight'.

Sharon Leal '100% innocent' didn't use that clip.

Fancy that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Carefully along the actual door opening crack ?

Come on Slarti, pull the other one

..........and besides, Kate`s checked holiday trousers are cropped and wouldn`t reach down far enough to brush the sill.   ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:45:10 PM
..........and besides, Kate`s checked holiday trousers are cropped and wouldn`t reach down far enough to brush the sill.   ?{)(**

I don't think her pants was the reason the boot was left open day & night. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 05:47:13 PM
Yes for more possible eye witnesses to come forward.
LOL.  You think people who saw Gerry McCann carrying a child through PdL would have forgotten this fact until seeing a not-very-good photofit of him on Crimewatch 7 years later?  LOL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 05:49:41 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
About an hour isn't it?

Well I deserved that body swerve I suppose  ?>)()<. Try again! What is the running time to the point where they are all on the sofa together?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 05:58:54 PM
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.

You've got to admit it was a corker though - must have taken the make-up artist hours to perfect that degree of haggardness.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:59:41 PM
LOL.  You think people who saw Gerry McCann carrying a child through PdL would have forgotten this fact until seeing a not-very-good photofit of him on Crimewatch 7 years later?  LOL.

There could be another reason. Sending a message loud and clear in the CW studio. We've got rid of your abductor Tannerman and now we're after you!

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/SFINTERVIEW02052008.jpg)


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 06:01:49 PM
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.

Absolutely nothing suspicious about the pair at all is there, oh no, no sirree.

They're the very embodiment of innocence, innocence personified, aren't they.

Do you know, I don't think I've seen anyone, ever,  look more innocent than the Dr's McCann.

That's just how overwhelmingly innocent they are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 06:03:18 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !

so this is the sort of evidence that leads some to doubt the mccanns....reality check needed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:05:29 PM
You've got to admit it was a corker though - must have taken the make-up artist hours to perfect that degree of haggardness.
It's comments like this that really let this forum down. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:06:26 PM
There could be another reason. Sending a message loud and clear in the CW studio. We've got rid of your abductor Tannerman and now we're after you!

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/SFINTERVIEW02052008.jpg)
If you say so dear.... 8(*(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 06:14:36 PM
If you say so dear.... 8(*(

It's happened in other cases that I've seen on tv documentaries.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 06:15:26 PM
If you say so dear.... 8(*(

Are you fond of Mr.Spotty ?

Did he beam you up ? @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:15:35 PM
It's happened in other cases that I've seen on tv documentaries.
Please name them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:19:34 PM


We hear a lot on this forum about the obsession of McCann supporters - well what is it that drives someone to sit through an interview with the McCanns on Crimewatch and watch it frame by frame to find the least attractive still image from it that they can?  Do you see McCann supporters doing this with interviews of Amaral?  It's sad and desperate and IMO quite obsessive, not least because it has happened several times, not just with this interview. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 06:20:25 PM
Please name them.

I didn't make notes. But you will find many case programmes in the Documentaries section on Sky.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 06:35:07 PM
There could be another reason. Sending a message loud and clear in the CW studio. We've got rid of your abductor Tannerman and now we're after you!

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/SFINTERVIEW02052008.jpg)

By time & location the Smiths sighting 'speaks for itself' according to the smiling Mr Redwood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwVMsDIoULQ#t=299
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:41:25 PM
Erm........You seem to be trying to suggest that the clip was  gratuitously selected purely to show a person as "unattractive" rather than as a clip possibly showing her reaction to what was going on at the start of the programme. Is that right?
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s).  Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 06:43:51 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.

Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?

Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?

Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?

Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?


Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?


Why would there be any need for that?    Both SY and the Portuguese AG found that nothing revealed by the alerts of the dogs incriminated the McCanns.     This is in line with Martin Grime's statement that no evidential value can be placed on the alerts without corroborating evidence.   There is no corroborating evidence.  IMO  the fact that a group of sceptics on the internet disagree with Martin Grime and wrongly believe that a dead body must have once laid in apartment 5A - is of no consequence at all to the police officers investigating this case.  Why would it be?

If DCI Redwoods statement that neither the McCanns or their friends are either suspects or persons of interest isn't believed by some sceptics then I fail to see what would convince them - as nothing could be more clear.

The idea that SY and the PJ are conducting some clever conspiracy against the McCanns which also includes conning the British Public with programmes like the Crimewatch appeal is preposterous.  They would lose all credibility and no-one would ever believe a word they said again. 

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 06:44:39 PM
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s).  Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.

@ 1min 40 secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8jmdWlB8Y#t=93
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:50:59 PM
@ 1min 40 secs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8jmdWlB8Y#t=93
So - why would they have been "knocked off kilter" at that point then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 06:54:43 PM

Why would there be any need for that?    Both SY and the Portuguese AG found that nothing revealed by the alerts of the dogs incriminated the McCanns.     This is in line with Martin Grime's statement that no evidential value can be placed on the alerts without corroborating evidence.   There is no corroborating evidence.  IMO  the fact that a group of sceptics on the internet disagree with Martin Grime and wrongly believe that a dead body must have once laid in apartment 5A - is of no consequence at all to the police officers investigating this case.  Why would it be?

If DCI Redwoods statement that neither the McCanns or their friends are either suspects or persons of interest isn't believed by some sceptics then I fail to see what would convince them - as nothing could be more clear.

The idea that SY and the PJ are conducting some clever conspiracy against the McCanns which also includes conning the British Public with programmes like the Crimewatch appeal is preposterous.  They would lose all credibility and no-one would ever believe a word they said again.

So why the devoted attention to finding "reasons" for the alerts.............most of which appear to revolve around handler incompetence ...........if the doggie searches are all irrelevant anyway?

Try following your own advice.

The rest of your post is simply concerned with using mine on which to hang unrelated bluster.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 25, 2015, 07:02:34 PM
Carefully along the actual door opening crack ?

Come on Slarti, pull the other one

...and I thought you were supposed to be an engineer. The seal is located around the inner opening to the door not flush with the door, when anyone gets in or out of a car their legs get into close proximity of the sill within the door but outside the seal.

(http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/_User-folders/vBulletinImg/2011/4/%7B34F1EE67-FEBD-45F4-9C4C-B8D23ECE8F53%7D.jpeg)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 25, 2015, 07:08:54 PM
So why the devoted attention to finding "reasons" for the alerts.............most of which appear to revolve around handler incompetence ...........if the doggie searches are all irrelevant anyway?

Try following your own advice.

The rest of your post is simply concerned with using mine on which to hang unrelated bluster.

grime himself said that there could be several reasons for the alerts...he has also not confirmed that the alerts were to cadaverine....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 07:13:21 PM
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s).  Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.

The fact is there is not a shred of evidence against the McCanns - which IMO is why some sceptics have had to resort to poring over every word they have ever said - taking a few words or phrases out of context to change their meaning -  and then holding them up as 'evidence' of what nasty cold people they are.      It also  includes examining every hair, every expression, every photograph (all of which are photoshopped apparently)  etc etc in an effort to 'prove' what 'evil' people they are - and insodoing convince themselves that they must therefore be guilty.

The power of  'wishful thinking'  never ceases to amaze me.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
And absolutely shit feared at the situation in which they found themselves .

How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the  McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour.   Those police officers are trained to observe.

None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either. 

 Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded  that they were 100% innocent.

But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field.    Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the  McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour.   Those police officers are trained to observe.

None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either. 

 Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded  that they were 100% innocent.

But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field.    Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.




Let's have some independent analysis, not organized by Clarence Mitchell.

There are other expert opinions on the net, but after all I wouldn't wish to libel the mccanns.

Type on google, it's not hard to find.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 26, 2015, 11:04:34 AM

Let's have some independent analysis, not organized by Clarence Mitchell.

There are other expert opinions on the net, but after all I wouldn't wish to libel the mccanns.

Type on google, it's not hard to find.

Perhaps you could provide proof that Clarence Mitchell had anything to do with the appointment of the UK Family Liaison Police Officers.

Also proof that the trauma counsellors, and  Dr. Leal were known to the McCanns prior to Madeleine's disappearance - and therefore could not possibly be independent - and so would obviously be prepared to lie.   That is what you are suggesting isn't it?    If not  - please clarify.



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 11:09:45 AM
Perhaps you could provide proof that Clarence Mitchell had anything to do with the appointment of the UK Family Liaison Police Officers.

Also proof that the trauma counsellors, and  Dr. Leal were known to the McCanns prior to Madeleine's disappearance - and therefore could not possibly be independent - and so would obviously be prepared to lie.   That is what you are suggesting isn't it?    If not  - please clarify.

Mitchell organized the McCann's PR.

fact.

Meanwhile look up either psychologists views of themccanns.

They don't concur.

Meanwhile the one you mention was on TV and she was hardly going to say anything against the McCann's, was she ?

Perhaps her body language she be analysed as well, during her TV appearance as to what she really thought. 8)-)))

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 26, 2015, 11:10:28 AM
How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the  McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour.   Those police officers are trained to observe.

None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either. 

 Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded  that they were 100% innocent.

But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field.    Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.

I think it would be very difficult for any professional sent to PDL at that time to tell the difference between the grief the McCanns felt at the loss of a daughter to that displayed if their child had been lost due to an abduction. And don't forget if there had been a fatal accident which had been hidden the McCanns would be censoring their behaviour accordingly,

As to Sharon Leal, what did you expect her to say ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 26, 2015, 11:14:40 AM
Mitchell organized the McCann's PR.

fact.

Meanwhile look up either psychologists views of themccanns.

They don't concur.

Meanwhile the one you mention was on TV and she was hardly going to say anything against the McCann's, was she ?

Perhaps her body language she be analysed as well, during her TV appearance as to what she really thought. 8)-)))

Please provide proof that the people being discussed were part of any PR exercise. -starting with the Family Liaison Officers.  What part did Clarence Mitchell play in their arrival in PdL.   FLO's are a normal part of the procedures carried out by UK police in missing child cases.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 11:39:27 AM
Please provide proof that the people being discussed were part of any PR exercise. -starting with the Family Liaison Officers.  What part did Clarence Mitchell play in their arrival in PdL.   FLO's are a normal part of the procedures carried out by UK police in missing child cases.

Mitchell was 'assigned' to the McCann's for PR and to managrpe the McCann's image, as you well know.

As to what I said earlier, look at alternative analysis of the McCann's behaviour.

It is quite enlightening.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 12:06:27 PM
Mitchell was 'assigned' to the McCann's for PR and to managrpe the McCann's image, as you well know.

As to what I said earlier, look at alternative analysis of the McCann's behaviour.

It is quite enlightening.


Rather than placing my faith in self certified profilers and body language gurus ... I prefer to rely on something with more substance.

So I will go with the professional opinions of highly trained police liaison officers who were there at the relevant time to observe the family and who would have reported anything they noticed which was amiss.

They were also mainly high ranking and must have had many years of combined experience under their belts ... what a pity they didn't think to get someone to vouch that in over 200 cases they had never been wrong ... but such is life.

It should be remembered that we know of them only from their answer to Rebelo's question ... there will be full and concise statements from them elsewhere detailing exactly why they were so confident in their response.

                  ::::::::::              ::::::::::              ::::::::::              ::::::::::              ::::::::::           

According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:

Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?

My reply to the question was: No.

However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.


This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN_MARKLEY.htm


My reply to the question: No.

In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.

I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.

Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my knowledge.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JIM_McGARVEY.htm

                  ::::::::::              ::::::::::              ::::::::::              ::::::::::              :::::::::: 


“Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators? “


My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ELEANOR_JOHNSON.htm


My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAEL_GRAHAM.htm


My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_HOLDEN.htm


My response to the above question is: No.
This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROLINE_BURROWS.htm



If the FLO had had any doubts about the Drs McCann there is no doubt they would have reported them ... that is their function after all.

Then again ... perhaps they don't 'do' dreams ... sticking to observation and facts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 26, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
Duffers and no-hopers, these Leicestershire Police Liaison Officers ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 12:19:29 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate knowing straight away that she had been abducted according to them (windows/shutters open, doors/gate closed). Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his mute doppelgänger is seen minutes later moving quickly and carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 12:30:46 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate. Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his doppelgänger is seen minutes later carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.

You really do have a very limited repertoire however you care to rephrase from post to post you end up with the same old same old same old ... repetition is just so passée and tiresome ... but who am I to complain if it satisfies some deep seated need within your psyche.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 12:32:07 PM
You really do have a very limited repertoire however you care to rephrase from post to post you end up with the same old same old same old ... repetition is just so passée and tiresome ... but who am I to complain if it satisfies some deep seated need within your psyche.

Those are the facts. Truth hurts!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 12:57:00 PM
Those are the facts. Truth hurts!

Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 01:10:28 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.

How do we know that ? Who provides the definitive timing for anything?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:26:05 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.

It was actually 10:03 and he wasn't.

That's the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:28:32 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate knowing straight away that she had been abducted according to them (windows/shutters open, doors/gate closed). Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his mute doppelgänger is seen minutes later moving quickly and carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.

Such a mystery, ain't it PF.

I'm surprised that Gerry didn't bump into the Smith family whilst he was out searching.



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 26, 2015, 01:37:06 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.

What's the source for this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 01:38:36 PM
It was actually 10:03 and he wasn't.

That's the truth.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+sky+video+madeleine+mccann&qpvt=YOUTUBE+SKY+VIDEO+MADELEINE+MCCANN&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=EE28A1AB8100ACBF708BEE28A1AB8100ACBF708B

17M50.
Peter Smith speaking.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 26, 2015, 01:41:46 PM
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+sky+video+madeleine+mccann&qpvt=YOUTUBE+SKY+VIDEO+MADELEINE+MCCANN&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=EE28A1AB8100ACBF708BEE28A1AB8100ACBF708B

17M50.
Peter Smith speaking.

So it's Peter Smith, not Martin.
And it's Jason Farrell, not MWT.
And the conversation didn't take place in 2013 either.

 8)-))) Apart from all those mistakes, you're doing fine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 01:44:30 PM
So it's Peter Smith, not Martin.
And it's Jason Farrell, not MWT.
And the conversation didn't take place in 2013 either.

 8)-))) Apart from all those mistakes, you're doing fine.

Yes, my mistakes. But that is Peter Smith confirming the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:45:11 PM
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+sky+video+madeleine+mccann&qpvt=YOUTUBE+SKY+VIDEO+MADELEINE+MCCANN&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=EE28A1AB8100ACBF708BEE28A1AB8100ACBF708B

17M50.
Peter Smith speaking.

Oh I see, so when you said Martin you actually meant Peter, & he said 'it was more or less bang on 9.55'

It was 10.03.

P.S, Mark Williams Thomas ignores the open window in his Maddie woke & wandered thesis, that's how much of a genius he is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:46:34 PM
So it's Peter Smith, not Martin.
And it's Jason Farrell, not MWT.
And the conversation didn't take place in 2013 either.

 8)-))) Apart from all those mistakes, you're doing fine.

She can show you a clip of Eddie barking 6 times at the wall if you ask her.

Oh wait, no she can't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 01:51:09 PM
She can show you a clip of Eddie barking 6 times at the wall if you ask her.

Oh wait, no she can't.

I'm sure you could edit in some more barking as easily as it could have been edited out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 01:54:38 PM
Oh I see, so when you said Martin you actually meant Peter, & he said 'it was more or less bang on 9.55'

It was 10.03.

P.S, Mark Williams Thomas ignores the open window in his Maddie woke & wandered thesis, that's how much of a genius he is.

Smithman is irrelevant anyway. He didn't exist.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 01:54:57 PM
How do we know that ? Who provides the definitive timing for anything?

Better check that out with WS ... s/he is apparently the the font of all knowledge when it comes to shibboleths of any hue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:03:25 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.

Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 02:06:47 PM
Would I be right in assuming that first definitive times we get is when Tapas group, or O/C employees phones started to get active ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:06:51 PM
I'm sure you could edit in some more barking as easily as it could have been edited out.

If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable.  The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.

We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.

This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:08:50 PM
Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.

All other timelines do not concur with Aoife's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:09:29 PM
If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable.  The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.

We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.

This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance.

Course, Eddies alerts are affected by the presence or otherwise of date stamps.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable.  The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.

We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.

This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance.

Do you think this may be Grime's copy?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:16:36 PM
Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.


The Smith party of nine left a restaurant and went briefly to a pub, with children and a weary pregnant woman in tow whose husband was apparently very concerned to get her back to the hotel, and left not a trace of their visit.

The till receipts are just that ... till receipts ... and according to them it seems to have been a very quiet night, yet it seems the staff in Kelly's Bar were unable to confirm their presence.

Pity the CCTV at the hotel couldn't be used to firm up the time of arrival. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:16:49 PM
Smithman is irrelevant anyway. He didn't exist.

A young girl of 12 and other children in a group of nine lied  @)(++(* The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible.

Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left.

— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run.

At the time she saw his face. (AS)

Smithman the Mute was moving a lot quicker when his face could be seen under that light where Aoife was  8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 26, 2015, 02:17:49 PM
Would I be right in assuming that first definitive times we get is when Tapas group, or O/C employees phones started to get active ?

 ?>)()< Unless Msrs Tissot and/or Longines were having tapas at the time that would seem a reasonable assumption.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:20:17 PM
All other timelines do not concur with Aoife's.

I don't have much faith in the recollections of a young woman who didn't know what day it was when she returned home from her holiday.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:20:50 PM


The Smithman efits didn't exist for 5 years  *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:23:45 PM


I'm more interested in why someone would want to invent a sighting of another man carrying a child.
I'm also very interested to know if RM really has been made an arguido again.
Time will tell. Literally, and not 10.03. 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
I don't have much faith in the recollections of a young woman who didn't know what day it was when she returned home from her holiday.

Funny, I have little faith in the parents of a missing child who don't bother calling the police, suffer selective amnesia & smell like death, myself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:25:59 PM


" ... were we dreaming ? " 

Surely not another dream ... wonder why it took a fortnight for the penny to drop, particularly when we are told the Smith Grandchildren were terrified to sleep on their own because a little girl was missing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:27:36 PM
All other timelines do not concur with Aoife's.

Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)

Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 26, 2015, 02:29:51 PM
I don't have much faith in the recollections of a young woman who didn't know what day it was when she returned home from her holiday.

Sounds a bit like the Essex Girl and Mikhail Gorbachev joke to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:30:02 PM
Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)

Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.

Forget it PF, the whole family were either dreaming or lying.

That's the most logical conclusion obviously.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:30:49 PM
The Smithman efits didn't exist for 5 years  *&*%£

OK ... personally speaking I'm not sure who that efit represents ... but it seems that SY and the PJ were in possessjon of them over the time scale you have noted ... must be something to do with that which got the ST into a spot of hot water last year.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:35:10 PM
A young girl of 12 and other children in a group of nine lied  @)(++(* The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible.

Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment.
— Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left.

— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run.

At the time she saw his face. (AS)

Smithman the Mute was moving a lot quicker when his face could be seen under that light where Aoife was  8)--))

"The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible."

It would be good if you would please give a cite for that statement ... preferably from a SY source.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:36:30 PM
Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)

Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.


It's very easy to be sure of something until someone proves otherwise.
I will never convince you that Smithman does not exist. I hope that SY will be able to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:37:41 PM
Forget it PF, the whole family were either dreaming or lying.

That's the most logical conclusion obviously.

---- Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house. (GM 10 May 2007)

How extraordinary! Another fine mess @)(++(*

Is this the 10:03 exact time watch?

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gerrytrousers.jpg)

— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration. (Aoife Smith)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 26, 2015, 02:39:04 PM
All other timelines do not concur with Aoife's.

Which timelines? Tapas had two- then couldn't recall when asked again. They didn't have phones or watches on...So could their timeline possibly be inaccurate? Oh I am thinking YES! and that is a definite Yes!

There was also no planned times to check on the children so nothing to tack.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:42:53 PM
Which timelines? Tapas had two- then couldn't recall when asked again. They didn't have phones or watches on...So could their timeline possibly be inaccurate? Oh I am thinking YES! and that is a definite Yes!

There was also no planned times to check on the children so nothing to tack.

Gerry and Matt had watches on.

"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:44:08 PM
Gerry and Matt had watches on.

"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)

How extraordinary!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:45:22 PM
Would I be right in assuming that first definitive times we get is when Tapas group, or O/C employees phones started to get active ?

Yes, I think that would be an excellent starting point. Is this information in the files, please?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:46:38 PM
How extraordinary!

Innit! Matt says Kate left at 9:50 and Gerry says it's exactly 10:03. Both were wearing watches so who do you believe?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 26, 2015, 02:47:04 PM
OK ... personally speaking I'm not sure who that efit represents ... but it seems that SY and the PJ were in possessjon of them over the time scale you have noted ... must be something to do with that which got the ST into a spot of hot water last year.

Just to say while you are here that I posted the "evidence" you demanded yesterday of your accusing me of "trolling" you a few months back, but it was removed last night in the cull.

Your post is still there in my posting history, though, if you are still demanding "evidence";..........having been allowed to stand un-moderated at the time.

You did accuse me........ and I put up the post you asked for.




Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
Gerry and Matt had watches on.

"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)

Presumably an uncorroborated time and no way of knowing how accurate his watch was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:50:41 PM
Do you think this may be Grime's copy?

It has Duarte Levy's imprint on it, Misty, so no idea. 

I would imagine that if Martin Grime was using it to promote his private business he would have used small excerpts to illustrate the dogs 'getting a result'.

Apart from the lack of date and time stamps I would be astounded if the person filming evidence for the PJ would have produced such an amateurish end product.

Whoever has ownership is just another entrepreneur who is using Madeleine McCann as a cash cow, wonder how much has been raked in since 2008.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:52:34 PM
Presumably an uncorroborated time and no way of knowing how accurate his watch was.

"and the last at 21:51, when Kate, Madeleine's mother goes to the apartment, before alerting to the disappearance." (Phone calls and hairs frame 4 suspects)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 26, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
Smithman is irrelevant anyway. He didn't exist.


until SY believed he did,  then he existed! and became part of the new investigations - blowing Tannerman away AND MOVING from that other awkward situation about Gerry and jez not 'bumping' into JT...

Oh I misread something. They did have watches but did not use them to have a proper sheduled-tracking checking service...it was more relaxed=,as and when.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 02:58:59 PM
It has Duarte Levy's imprint on it, Misty, so no idea. 

I would imagine that if Martin Grime was using it to promote his private business he would have used small excerpts to illustrate the dogs 'getting a result'.

Apart from the lack of date and time stamps I would be astounded if the person filming evidence for the PJ would have produced such an amateurish end product.

Whoever has ownership is just another entrepreneur who is using Madeleine McCann as a cash cow, wonder how much has been raked in since 2008.


Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 03:02:39 PM
Just to say while you are here that I posted the "evidence" you demanded yesterday of your accusing me of "trolling" you a few months back, but it was removed last night in the cull.

Your post is still there in my posting history, though, if you are still demanding "evidence";..........having been allowed to stand un-moderated at the time.

You did accuse me........ and I put up the post you asked for.


I did see it, thank you, and I am heartened to see that you are capable of recognising yourself within a generalisation.

Perhaps a more appropriate generalisation might have been WUM.  As invited to do so, I had a look at your posting history, and that seems quite appropriate.

However the fact that the infantile exchange was whooshed should probably tell you something ... it does me.



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 03:07:24 PM

Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!

Why would Levy have been authorised to film the inspection?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 03:08:29 PM

until SY believed he did,  then he existed! and became part of the new investigations - blowing Tannerman away AND MOVING from that other awkward situation about Gerry and jez not 'bumping' into JT...

Oh I misread something. They did have watches but did not use them to have a proper sheduled-tracking checking service...it was more relaxed=,as and when.

Matt gave a definite time when Kate left. Not that he thinks it was around 9:50. He said he checked between meals. You're not going be half-way though a meal at 9:30 and leave it to check. You would finish it then check. So when he finished his starter he left at 9:25 to check before his main course arrives.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 03:09:52 PM
I note it hasn't occurred to some people that they have missed the boat regarding the court case, and the mccanns are going to come away from it with b....r all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 03:15:44 PM
Matt gave a definite time when Kate left. Not that he thinks it was around 9:50. He said he checked between meals. You're not going be half-way though a meal at 9:30 and leave it to check. You would finish it then check. So when he finished his starter he left at 9:25 to check before his main course arrives.

The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)

It seems reasonable to me that he might check what time it was when he left the table but why should he bother to check the time that Kate left?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 03:18:38 PM

Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!

Absolutely unmistakeable, DCI.

He certainly filmed the version we are familiar with in the garage, but Harrison in his statement said the PJ had used a time and date stamp when filming.
The video would have been useless as evidence otherwise as it would have been too easily tampered with and capable of being edited inappropriately otherwise.

I think this was a private video and I believe the PJ must have known it was being filmed.
I find it extraordinary if the PJ contracted Levy ... they have access to their own officers to work on taking photographic evidence still and movie versions.

I would also have expected them to use a clapper board between takes and when filming was started and stopped.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 03:23:35 PM
It seems reasonable to me that he might check what time it was when he left the table but why should he bother to check the time that Kate left?

Maybe he was checking if it was his time to do another check as well instead of twiddling his thumbs as he put it.

"I’m a fairly fast eater and I was finished and rather than just sitting there twiddling my thumbs while everybody else was still eating, I’d have usually gone." (MO)

And the only person he remembers seeing at night on his checks was Jez.

4078 "What about in the evenings when you were going back to check on G****, do you recall some of the other people around?"
 
Reply "No, there'd be rarely, rarely anybody about, maybe an occasional one person. Erm, tut, was he, was it the chap, whose name I can’t remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview, Jeremy, Jeremy or somebody?

4078 "Yeah".
 
Reply "Who had a child and I think I'd seen him around because I think their child didn't sleep particularly well and he may have been pushing or he might have been collecting from crèche, but what day or what time, I don't really remember".
 
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 03:39:03 PM
"The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible."

It would be good if you would please give a cite for that statement ... preferably from a SY source.

I don't need to give a cite for something that's elementary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 04:06:32 PM
I don't need to give a cite for something that's elementary.

You have made a statement that the Smith family, citizens of the Republic, have been interviewed by foreign officers from New Scotland Yard and you are able to provide a cite ??

Must bring your statement into doubt as you have no way of showing the veracity of it or exactly where the efits promoted by DCI Redwood originate.

That is what is elementary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 26, 2015, 05:14:22 PM
I realise it is not news, but someone several pages back asked whether the weather Portugal in winter is much like the UK in winter.

The answer is no, and it is relevant to the incident.

Portugal is a mix of deciduous and coniferous trees, much like the UK.  The trees around apartment 5A are deciduous, therefore you might well think that they would have little or no leaves on 3 May 2007, thereby allowing 5A to be illuminated at the front by 2 nearby street lights.

The reality is that the Algarve does not freeze in winter.  I have seen hail twice in 3 years, but never snow, and never ice.  That is, it seldom or never falls below freezing at night.

During the day in mid-winter it seldom falls below 15 centigrade.

If it is sunny, which it often is, it is sun-bathing weather, literally.

It tends to rain a lot in November.  It tends to rain a lot in February.  In general, for the rest of the year there is no rain.  It is close to bone dry.

So the deciduous trees do not drop their leaves in winter.  Winter is where they stock up on water and enjoy the sunshine (and bushes put out flowers, but that is a digression).

By May 2007, the deciduous trees around 5A were fully on leaves, and these are at the same height as the street lights.

This explains why on 3rd May 2007 the front of 5A and the car park outside could be in relative darkness.  While the Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting were actually fairly well-illuminated, despite reports to the contrary.

The layout for lights at both sightings is on shininginluz.worpress.com if you are interested.  In summary the street lights are of the order of 20 metres apart, and the main issue is that they are sodium lights, casting that well-known yellowish glow.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 05:23:32 PM
You have made a statement that the Smith family, citizens of the Republic, have been interviewed by foreign officers from New Scotland Yard and you are able to provide a cite ??

Must bring your statement into doubt as you have no way of showing the veracity of it or exactly where the efits promoted by DCI Redwood originate.

That is what is elementary.

Madeleine McCann: Key witness accuses Portuguese police of not taking his vital prime suspect evidence seriously

Retired businessman Martin Smith provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man close to where Maddie vanished.......

“It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 05:32:24 PM

Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!

Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?

Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 05:36:32 PM


Thanks for sharing this clip WS  8((()*/

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 05:40:02 PM
Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?

Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?

In the Scenic car windows. Not sure if the rear or side window was best shot.
Don't know if anyone else was filming but only Levy's edited ones are shown to the public. You would have thought the filming would have been in the files.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on January 26, 2015, 05:46:13 PM
Madeleine McCann: Key witness accuses Portuguese police of not taking his vital prime suspect evidence seriously

Retired businessman Martin Smith provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man close to where Maddie vanished.......

“It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328

This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....

A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.


so there you are..it's an abduction
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....

A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.


so there you are..it's an abduction

Has he paid out yet?  If not, perhaps it is because it wasn't an abduction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 05:53:08 PM
This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....

A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.


so there you are..it's an abduction

Is that the same way SY thought Barry George was guilty of Jill Dando's murder ?

The actual suspect was blonde, George wasn't of course.

What actually is Redwood's success rate in solving crimes by the way ?

He never solved Madeleine's disappearance and there is no evuidence of abduction, as they as we know are back to square one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 05:56:59 PM
Has he paid out yet?  If not, perhaps it is because it wasn't an abduction.
That's typical "sceptic" faulty logic  @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 05:58:08 PM
Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?

Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?

There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised.  He is clearly recognisable.

I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.

IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.

Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it.
Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.

Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.

All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 05:59:52 PM
Have you noticed that Redwood refers to "those responsible" rather than in the singular?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 06:04:10 PM
There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised.  He is clearly recognisable.

I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.

IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.

Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it.
Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.

Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.

All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.


Yes, After the posters were removed. I have just noticed something else a bit odd. When Grime was putting Keela in the car, the filming cut to the front. It doesn't show Keela entering the car, unless I missed it!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 06:06:06 PM
Have you noticed that Redwood refers to "those responsible" rather than in the singular?

Yes, I think that's police speak for 'we don't really have a clue so are covering our options'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 07:03:01 PM

Yes, After the posters were removed. I have just noticed something else a bit odd. When Grime was putting Keela in the car, the filming cut to the front. It doesn't show Keela entering the car, unless I missed it!

Well spotted DCI and a perfect example of the brain 'remembering' and filling in the things you expect to see ... I would have sworn that I had seen her going in, I can actually visualise it ... but when checking we can see Martin Grime with his hand on the door handle and Keela in working mode at 1:24:57 the video then cuts and when we next see it Keela is inside the vehicle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 07:45:59 PM
Redwood - DCI in charge of Operation Grange with access to all available information, witnesses, etc + years of professional experience = "mistaken"
Jassi - internet "sceptic", with limited access to available information and 0 years of relevant experience = ? &%+((£

and what is Redwoods success rate in solving crimes ?

Dando case....

McCann case...

Two round digits express the answers quite appropriately. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 07:48:37 PM
That 20K is safe and there is more than one person responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. The black jacket 8)-)))

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 07:58:56 PM
There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised.  He is clearly recognisable.

I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.

IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.

Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it.
Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.

Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.

All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.

Thanks for helping me find where to look. I have no idea who it is, but he doesn't look like Levy to me.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 08:03:55 PM
Trying to make it a bit lighter...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 08:14:01 PM
But Jassi could be pulling a double blind could he/she not?
Therefore you cannot know for certain and your judgement will be colored by your own prejudices to a lesser or greater extent.
So your comment "not very plausible" = it is plausible but with qualification.
What is 100% NOT plausible is that Jassi is in a position to know better than Andy Redwood with regard to this case, whether she's a keystone cop or not.  Now challenge that, smart@rse!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 08:16:33 PM
Thanks for helping me find where to look. I have no idea who it is, but he doesn't look like Levy to me.
That actually looks more like Amaral to me!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 26, 2015, 08:21:08 PM
That actually looks more like Amaral to me!

And to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
What is 100% NOT plausible is that Jassi is in a position to know better than Andy Redwood with regard to this case, whether she's a keystone cop or not.  Now challenge that, smart@rse!

What has Redwood found ?

and the answer is NOTHING.  %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 08:29:15 PM
That actually looks more like Amaral to me!

It does a bit LOL

I don't think it's him either, though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 09:01:38 PM
It does a bit LOL

I don't think it's him either, though.

I would be unable to recognise Levy from even a good still photograph ... I have seen a gross guy in dark clothes in a photo somewhere ... so I know he is overweight and has a full head of dark hair, but I wouldn't recognise his face.

If I was producing an efit ... it would have to be another egg man.

The impression I had of the photographer fitted my idea of Levy when I caught glimpses of him as he moved around the car ... and I am content that people who would recognise him facially don't think it is him.
Which raises the question of Levy's part in this and why his copyright?

I am sure it is not the official PJ photographer ... the quality of filming is way too bad ... maybe he lent his camera out?

There are uniformed officers in one shot ... GNR?? ... so there was a police presence during this filming.

But whatever ... I think the whole thing is decidedly iffy and does not stand scrutiny.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 10:03:46 PM
I would be unable to recognise Levy from even a good still photograph ... I have seen a gross guy in dark clothes in a photo somewhere ... so I know he is overweight and has a full head of dark hair, but I wouldn't recognise his face.

If I was producing an efit ... it would have to be another egg man.

The impression I had of the photographer fitted my idea of Levy when I caught glimpses of him as he moved around the car ... and I am content that people who would recognise him facially don't think it is him.
Which raises the question of Levy's part in this and why his copyright?

I am sure it is not the official PJ photographer ... the quality of filming is way too bad ... maybe he lent his camera out?

There are uniformed officers in one shot ... GNR?? ... so there was a police presence during this filming.

But whatever ... I think the whole thing is decidedly iffy and does not stand scrutiny.


There is a slight resemblance (bearing in mind that the camera is in the way and the screen shot isn't brilliant). But I really don't think it's him. Videoman looks younger, not as large, I can't see a beard...

(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/duartelevy5.jpg)

IMO, it's probably some GNR officer who was tasked to film, probably using a borrowed home cam.

My suspicion is that the videos are what the PJ extracted from the rushes to present to Kate and Gerry during their arguido interviews as "evidence".

Levy obviously found some way of getting hold of it and decided to splash his copyright on it.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pinkblossoms on January 27, 2015, 12:44:15 AM
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is  it because the mcanns  are unlikley to  win against  GA?   GA  would be open to sue  people who have damaged his reputation too

GA damaged his own reputation  %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 27, 2015, 12:51:57 AM
GA damaged his own reputation  %£&)**#

Yes, and well before 2007  %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pinkblossoms on January 27, 2015, 01:05:35 AM
Yes, and well before 2007  %£&)**#


 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 08:33:13 AM

 8((()*/

The only people to damage their reputations are the mccanns.

and that reputation lies up a certain creek.

As we know, doing a mccann has now become part of the 'Urban Dictionary'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 09:36:58 AM
I think it would be very difficult for any professional sent to PDL at that time to tell the difference between the grief the McCanns felt at the loss of a daughter to that displayed if their child had been lost due to an abduction. And don't forget if there had been a fatal accident which had been hidden the McCanns would be censoring their behaviour accordingly,

As to Sharon Leal, what did you expect her to say ?


Firstly Faith -  the idea that 2 people, who were capable of dumping their own child's dead body with the clinical coldness of psychopaths required to do that unspeakable deed  - could also be capable of genuine grief is not possible IMO.

It would seem there are two conflicting schools of thought amongst sceptics. 

One is that the McCanns  (that is both of them - not just one) by sheer luck BOTH just happened to be born brilliant actors capable of duping several professional experts about their behaviour and  have successfully pulled the wool over their eyes - despite hours/days/weeks of direct contact with - and observation by - those various experts - who found nothing amiss in their behaviour.

But at the same time videos are being brought on here to 'prove'  that actually the McCanns are such rubbish actors that even any old member of the public  - never mind experts - can see through them at a glance - because their acting skills are so bad they can't keep up their act long enough to even to get through a short interview - without their masks always slipping and revealing their true 'evil' dispositions.

Both can't be right  -  but IMO both can and are completely wrong.

I would expect Dr. Leal to carry out the assessment she was asked to perform and report her findings in the normal way.   Unless of course she was being blackmailed or bribed to do otherwise - but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so that doesn't enter into the equation as far as I am concerned.   Perhaps you know differently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 09:46:21 AM

Firstly Faith -  the idea that 2 people, who were capable of dumping their own child's dead body with the clinical coldness of psychopaths required to do that unspeakable deed  - could also be capable of genuine grief is not possible IMO.

It would seem there are two conflicting schools of thought amongst sceptics. 

One is that the McCanns  (that is both of them - not just one) by sheer luck BOTH just happened to be born brilliant actors capable of duping several professional experts about their behaviour and  have successfully pulled the wool over their eyes - despite hours/days/weeks of direct contact with - and observation by - those various experts - who found nothing amiss in their behaviour.

But at the same time videos are being brought on here to 'prove'  that actually the McCanns are such rubbish actors that even any old member of the public  - never mind experts - can see through them at a glance - because their acting skills are so bad they can't keep up their act long enough to even to get through a short interview - without their masks always slipping and revealing their true 'evil' dispositions.

Both can't be right  -  but IMO both can and are completely wrong.

I would expect Dr. Leal to carry out the assessment she was asked to perform and report her findings in the normal way.   Unless of course she was being blackmailed or bribed to do otherwise - but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so that doesn't enter into the equation as far as I am concerned.   Perhaps you know differently.

There are other analyses by other psychologists who say the mccanns are concealing the truth.

As you should know with even your limited understanding of statistics, one sample being questioned, i.e. Dr. Leal, is insufficient to draw accurate conclusions.

perhaps you should also watch the mccanns on film/video.

Their body language and non-verbal responses are quite illuminating.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 10:02:46 AM
There are other analyses by other psychologists who say the mccanns are concealing the truth.

As you should know with even your limited understanding of statistics, one sample being questioned, i.e. Dr. Leal, is insufficient to draw accurate conclusions.

perhaps you should also watch the mccanns on film/video.

Their body language and non-verbal responses are quite illuminating.



Perhaps you could answer my question to you on how you know that Clarence Mitchell was involved in the appointment of the FLO's from Leicester police force -  i.e. the trained professionals who found nothing suspicious in the McCanns' behaviour.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 10:12:58 AM
Your customary childish rudeness is noted.

Perhaps you could answer my question to you on how you know that Clarence Mitchell was involved in the appointment of the FLO's from Leicester police force -  i.e. the trained professionals who found nothing suspicious in the McCanns' behaviour.

Why are you ignoring other Psychologists and other parties, who have analysed the mccanns behaviour and saying they are not telling the truth ?

As to Mitchell, he has been the orchestrating the mccanns contacts. FACT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 10:22:59 AM
Why are you ignoring other Psychologists and other parties, who have analysed the mccanns behaviour and saying they are not telling the truth ?

As to Mitchell, he has been the orchestrating the mccanns contacts. FACT.

One thing at a time Stephen.

So is your answer  that Clarence Mitchell orchestrated - and was responsible for -  the arrival in PdL of those FLO's from Leics. police force?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 10:26:43 AM
One thing at a time Stephen.

So is your answer  that Clarence Mitchell orchestrated - and was responsible for -  the arrival in PdL of those FLO's from Leics. police force?

When you address some of my questions, which you invariably ignore, we may have something to discuss.




Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 11:07:24 AM
When you address some of my questions, which you invariably ignore, we may have something to discuss.

LOL at the irony -  you haven't answered any questions of mine yet - you've just moved the goalposts or ignored them.     I will therefore have to take it you have no answer to my question re your claim that CM orchestrated the arrival of the FLO's in PdL.   

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 11:13:05 AM
LOL at the irony -  you haven't answered any questions of mine yet - you've just moved the goalposts or ignored them.     I will therefore have to take it you have no answer to my question re your claim that CM orchestrated the arrival of the FLO's in PdL.   

I've answered the questions.

Mitchell has organized the mccanns contacts from the near onset of this case.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
I've answered the questions.

Mitchell has organized the mccanns contacts from the near onset of this case.

http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2008/200809-cba-family-liaison-officer.pdf
I suggest you read the document on Family Liaison Officers at the above link and you will see how risible your opinion that these professionals take second place to your body language 'experts' and self certificated criminal profilers really is.

I think you will also realise exactly how ridiculous your assertion is that any press spokesman for any family caught up in a criminal case would be allowed to interfere in police procedure.

Common sense really.

Pity it isn't used more often by those who have a predilection for getting the knife into Madeleine McCann's parents and the families of other missing children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 12:53:19 PM
http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2008/200809-cba-family-liaison-officer.pdf
I suggest you read the document on Family Liaison Officers at the above link and you will see how risible your opinion that these professionals take second place to your body language 'experts' and self certificated criminal profilers really is.

I think you will also realise exactly how ridiculous your assertion is that any press spokesman for any family caught up in a criminal case would be allowed to interfere in police procedure.

Common sense really.

Pity it isn't used more often by those who have a predilection for getting the knife into Madeleine McCann's parents and the families of other missing children.

You can waffle on until the end of time.

The nature of the crime is uncertain.

The mccanns as Madeleine's legal guardians were responsible for her safety.

They were derelict in that duty.

Nothing you can say will change that fact.

and as I said earlier, the view of one psychologist on a n orchestrated TV program is hardly conclusive.

Until the actual crime is determined, several possibilities remain on the table, as to who caused Madeleine's disappearance.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
You can waffle on until the end of time.

The nature of the crime is uncertain.

The mccanns as Madeleine's legal guardians were responsible for her safety.

They were derelict in that duty.

Nothing you can say will change that fact.

and as I said earlier, the view of one psychologist on a n orchestrated TV program is hardly conclusive.

Until the actual crime is determined, several possibilities remain on the table, as to who caused Madeleine's disappearance.

How terribly amusing ... you appear to have selected a reputable practitioner to diss.

Such self delusion may be comforting ... but it would be worth while trying trying to keep up with what goes on in the real world ... your head will only hurt for a wee while, but it won't take long to get acclimatised once you get rid of the blinkers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 27, 2015, 03:15:47 PM

I shall be deleting the entire content of any post containing insults.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 03:46:48 PM
How terribly amusing ... you appear to have selected a reputable practitioner to diss.

Such self delusion may be comforting ... but it would be worth while trying trying to keep up with what goes on in the real world ... your head will only hurt for a wee while, but it won't take long to get acclimatised once you get rid of the blinkers.

Your judgement is clouded by your support for the McCann's, and the 'abduction' for which there is nho proof at all.

Now try addressing any other psychologist who believes the McCann's aren't telling the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 04:24:13 PM
Your judgement is clouded by your support for the McCann's, and the 'abduction' for which there is nho proof at all.

Now try addressing any other psychologist who believes the McCann's aren't telling the truth.

The only people whose opinion I'm at all bothered about are those who have already decided to reopen the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance and in the process have exonerated her parents from any involvement in the crime.

Although there is a hiatus at the moment in news coming out of the investigation it is probably safe to assume that work is progressing both here and in Portugal to apprehend the person/s responsible if at all possible.
With new faces in the key positions I think we can be assured of their determination and that of the authorities of both countries to complete the unfinished business of 2007/8 by finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann.

If there are people who prefer to ignore the fact that witnesses are being interviewed and reinterviewed ... none of whom have even the most tenuous connection with the Drs McCann or their friends ... that is entirely up to them.

Those members of society who are not stuck in a time warp are not interested in abusing the parents of a missing child in any way ... they are more interested in Madeleine McCann and the current search for her ... and the only complaint is that it took so long in happening.

It is probably worth reminding you it is only happening because of the hard work and tenacity of her parents to make it happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on January 28, 2015, 11:27:25 PM
Quick question and please mods move if posted incorrectly.

Can anyone verifybwhether there is any mention of Operation Grange or the team's contact details after October last year on either the official Madeleine campaign website or the OFM Facebook page ?

I know that the efits are no longer being displayed but has OG now been painted ought of the picture completely by TM ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 03, 2015, 10:52:10 AM
Apparently the McCann's plan to use the faithful to push their own agenda has suffered a bit of a glitch. Seems there was so much dissention when the thread below was posted on the OFM Facebook page that  it had to be pulled.

Official Find Madeleine Campaign
2 hrs · Edited ·
CHALLENGE OUR MPS: Invitation to Hacked Off's Parliamentary Campaign Day - 25th February 2015, 12.00pm - 3.30pm

Please join us and our supporters in Parliament to lobby MPs on Wednesday 25th February from 12.00pm to 3.30pm in Committee Room 11.

Following Prime Minister’s Questions – where we hope to put the PM on the spot - we will hear from party spokespersons, victims of press abuse and civil society organisations that work with individuals and groups who are regularly targeted or stigmatised by much of the British press.

It will be an opportunity for you to hear whether and how the main political parties intend to keep their promises to deliver Leveson, to meet some of our well-known supporters, and - if you choose - to lobby your own MP on a one-to–one basis.

If you can come, it would be very helpful (but not essential) for us if you would sign up here (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/challeng ... hacked-off…
) so that we can estimate numbers of attendees. Also please do let us know if you any questions.

We will be in touch again soon with more details.

Thank you for your continuing support - it really does make a difference to the success of the campaign.

Best wishes,

The Hacked Off Team

https://www.facebook.com/hackinginquiry?fref=ts
K...... s..... How does this help to find Madeleine??

R.... A........... C..... T........ I would like to know how is the process to find Madeleine.

K............... W..... What has this got to do with Official Find Madeleine Campaign
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 03, 2015, 02:47:15 PM
Apparently the McCann's plan to use the faithful to push their own agenda has suffered a bit of a glitch. Seems there was so much dissention when the thread below was posted on the OFM Facebook page that  it had to be pulled.

Official Find Madeleine Campaign
2 hrs · Edited ·
CHALLENGE OUR MPS: Invitation to Hacked Off's Parliamentary Campaign Day - 25th February 2015, 12.00pm - 3.30pm

Please join us and our supporters in Parliament to lobby MPs on Wednesday 25th February from 12.00pm to 3.30pm in Committee Room 11.

Following Prime Minister’s Questions – where we hope to put the PM on the spot - we will hear from party spokespersons, victims of press abuse and civil society organisations that work with individuals and groups who are regularly targeted or stigmatised by much of the British press.

It will be an opportunity for you to hear whether and how the main political parties intend to keep their promises to deliver Leveson, to meet some of our well-known supporters, and - if you choose - to lobby your own MP on a one-to–one basis.

If you can come, it would be very helpful (but not essential) for us if you would sign up here (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/challeng ... hacked-off…
) so that we can estimate numbers of attendees. Also please do let us know if you any questions.

We will be in touch again soon with more details.

Thank you for your continuing support - it really does make a difference to the success of the campaign.

Best wishes,

The Hacked Off Team

https://www.facebook.com/hackinginquiry?fref=ts
K...... s..... How does this help to find Madeleine??

R.... A........... C..... T........ I would like to know how is the process to find Madeleine.

K............... W..... What has this got to do with Official Find Madeleine Campaign

yes...the trolls strike again
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 03, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
'How does this help to find Madeleine??'

Gosh, I've never seen such hateful trolling.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 03, 2015, 03:06:35 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/nov/29/leveson-report-key-points

Link to an award winning newspaper.
I like the bit about how it is not obligatory to sign up to recommended watchdog. (oh no! not another dog thread)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on February 03, 2015, 11:53:03 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html

"... only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported missing at 10.14pm ... It was at that point, when police were called..."

Rubbish. In fact the first phonecall to the police was at about 10.40pm, a fact well documented by the early Amaral/LeicPolice/Met investigation.

"Facts, the hard currency of any police investigation, have proved almost uniquely elusive ..."

Yes, elusive to the Telegraph, who manage to get this crucial time wrong by about 35 minutes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 04, 2015, 07:51:03 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html

"... only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported missing at 10.14pm ... It was at that point, when police were called..."

Rubbish. In fact the first phonecall to the police was at about 10.40pm, a fact well documented by the early Amaral/LeicPolice/Met investigation.

"Facts, the hard currency of any police investigation, have proved almost uniquely elusive ..."

Yes, elusive to the Telegraph, who manage to get this crucial time wrong by about 35 minutes.

Now who told the Telegraph that time of 10.14 pm ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 04, 2015, 08:16:56 AM
10.14 - 10.40 - probably misheard the correct time in the first instance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 04, 2015, 08:18:17 AM
10.14 - 10.40 - probably misheard the correct time in the first instance.

Chinese whisper...happens all the time
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 04, 2015, 08:20:05 AM
Chinese whisper...happens all the time

Sloppy journalism, happens all the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 04, 2015, 11:25:28 AM
Now who told the Telegraph that time of 10.14 pm ?

Typing error. 10:41 was the exact time of the phone call.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on February 04, 2015, 12:26:23 PM
If you mail the telegraph they will no doubt correct the article... If can be bothered!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 13, 2015, 06:39:59 PM
I don't suppose the OFM campaign will be thanking this man anytime soon for his help in the 'search'.

http://news.stv.tv/north/310253-david-brinkman-downloaded-child-abuse-to-find-madeleine-mccann/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 13, 2015, 06:42:58 PM
I don't suppose the OFM campaign will be thanking this man anytime soon for his help in the 'search'.

http://news.stv.tv/north/310253-david-brinkman-downloaded-child-abuse-to-find-madeleine-mccann/

A complete pervert.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 13, 2015, 08:02:25 PM
He said: "He has been on this one man crusade as he is perfectly satisfied that Madeleine McCann was removed from the property in 2007 and has found her way into a paedophile ring.


Poor little girl got snatched by some paedos & he's perfectly satisfied with it?!

A very twisted man indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 13, 2015, 08:20:11 PM
"He finds it sickening to look at these things but he thought that his crusade was such that he had to go through it.'

http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/aberdeen-man-caught-with-indecent-images-was-looking-for-madeleine-mccann-1.838766

Poor guy was just trying to help, leaving no stone unturned n'all that.

Anyone buying it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 13, 2015, 11:18:15 PM
"He finds it sickening to look at these things but he thought that his crusade was such that he had to go through it.'

http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/local/aberdeen-man-caught-with-indecent-images-was-looking-for-madeleine-mccann-1.838766

Poor guy was just trying to help, leaving no stone unturned n'all that.

Anyone buying it?

Not for a minute WS but I suppose if you include the description detailed on page 129  of Madeleine in your narrative it is bound to attract some undesirables.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 07:53:29 AM
Not for a minute WS but I suppose if you include the description detailed on page 129  of Madeleine in your narrative it is bound to attract some undesirables.

I'd actually forgotten about p129 & Kate McCanns paedo obsessed mind.

Which is surprising really, because, being a sceptic, & therefore a paedophile, it was the only reason I bought Kate's book........


Eleanor:

--- Quote from: John on June 17, 2013, 07:48:58 PM ---Discussing her abducted daughters genitalia in a book which anyone can read was a huge blunder...another one!

--- End quote ---

How was it a blunder?  The Book was a best seller.  And so many more McCann Sceptics bought it when they heard about page 129.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1820.15;wap2


No doubt Kerry Needham imagined horrific sexual assaults, repeatedly, when Ben disappeared.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on February 14, 2015, 09:12:35 AM
I find it odd how some people seem obsessed by that sentence on p. 129. It's a mother expressing her torment at the idea.

But then I find it odd that some people also obsess about the eye shadow photo. All I see is a little girl playing at being a "grand lady".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 09:18:57 AM
I find it odd how some people seem obsessed by that sentence on p. 129. It's a mother expressing her torment at the idea.

But then I find it odd that some people also obsess about the eye shadow photo. All I see is a little girl playing at being a "grand lady".

Mccann did it for shock value in the book.

There was no need for it.

it merely added to the conjecture of her state of mind,

Also of course there is the point  that Madeleine's siblings could at some point read the book and see that sentence.

As to the photograph of Madeleine in make up, that just added to the conspiracy theorists of paedophile involvement in the case. Again it was a very stupid thing to do, added to everything else the mccanns have shown poor judgement in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 14, 2015, 11:04:54 AM
Mccann did it for shock value in the book.

There was no need for it.

it merely added to the conjecture of her state of mind,

Also of course there is the point  that Madeleine's siblings could at some point read the book and see that sentence.

As to the photograph of Madeleine in make up, that just added to the conspiracy theorists of paedophile involvement in the case. Again it was a very stupid thing to do, added to everything else the mccanns have shown poor judgement in.


Are you saying that at some stage in their lives the twins will be confronted with the word 'genitals!   Good grief! call out the firing squad immediately.

 I doubt whether there is a mother in history whose child has been abducted - who has NOT had those horrific thoughts push themselves into their minds as time went on - but let's pretend they didn't eh? and then it can be used as yet another stick to beat the McCanns with.   A more pathetic one I have yet to see.


Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 14, 2015, 11:23:36 AM
Anyone who thinks that that sentence on pg 129 was written to titillate has some serious personal issues IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 11:30:59 AM
Anyone who thinks that that sentence on pg 129 was written to titillate has some serious personal issues IMO.

I could add to that ... anyone who sees a photo of an innocent little girl in make up ... which by the look of it she has put on by herself, as generations of small children before her have done ... only to read something abhorrent into it, in my opinion, really does have serious personal issues.

In my neck of the woods we have a saying, "look in before you look out."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:33:29 AM

Are you saying that at some stage in their lives the twins will be confronted with the word 'genitals!   Good grief! call out the firing squad immediately.

 I doubt whether there is a mother in history whose child has been abducted - who has NOT had those horrific thoughts push themselves into their minds as time went on - but let's pretend they didn't eh? and then it can be used as yet another stick to beat the McCanns with.   A more pathetic one I have yet to see.

What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.

Are you for real ?

Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals  ?

There was no need for it in the book.

it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.

So GET REAL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2015, 11:38:24 AM
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.

Are you for real ?

Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals  ?

There was no need for it in the book.

it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.

So GET REAL.

Backfired with whom?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:43:20 AM
Backfired with whom?

You are kidding ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 14, 2015, 11:44:42 AM
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.

Are you for real ?

Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals  ?

There was no need for it in the book.

it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.

So GET REAL.
Stephen, please get real yourself.  Kate McCann does not devote a chapter or even a page or paragraph to the subject of genitals.  Iin the scheme of things I would think the fact that the twins will have to read about the McCanns' appalling treatment by the press, the police and some members of the public will be every bit as disturbing as having to read what was in effect simply the words of a devastated mother articlating a fleeting glimpse of the horror going on in her head at the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 11:47:52 AM
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.

Are you for real ?

Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals  ?

There was no need for it in the book.

it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.

So GET REAL.

I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.

You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."

Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:48:27 AM
Stephen, please get real yourself.  Kate McCann does not devote a chapter or even a page or paragraph to the subject of genitals.  Iin the scheme of things I would think the fact that the twins will have to read about the McCanns' appalling treatment by the press, the police and some members of the public will be every bit as disturbing as having to read what was in effect simply the words of a devastated mother articlating a fleeting glimpse of the horror going on in her head at the time.

Appalling treatment by the press ?

Don't make laugh.

The press has been bowing down to the McCann's for years.

and as to Kate McCann, she and her husband bear full responsibility for what happened or happens to their children, in their care.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:51:21 AM
I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.

You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."

Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.

They only people who should be ashamed are those who placed their children in unnecessary danger.

SO GET REAL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on February 14, 2015, 11:55:07 AM
Members are reminded of the forum rules.  Please keep debate convivial and refrain from using any language which could be considered unhelpful or abusive.

Admin
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 12:00:54 PM
They only people who should be ashamed are those who placed their children in unnecessary danger.

SO GET REAL.

Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 12:02:13 PM
Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?

He's innocent until proven guilty, isn't he?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 12:05:43 PM
He's innocent until proven guilty, isn't he?

So he didn't have images of child abuse in his possession?

He didn't exchange images of child abuse with other paedophiles?

I see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 14, 2015, 12:09:29 PM
and what is Redwoods success rate in solving crimes ?

Dando case....

McCann case...

Two round digits express the answers quite appropriately. 8((()*/

Redwood wasn't on the Dando case so it's not surprising he didn't solve it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 14, 2015, 12:11:51 PM
Appalling treatment by the press ?

Don't make laugh.

The press has been bowing down to the McCann's for years.

and as to Kate McCann, she and her husband bear full responsibility for what happened or happens to their children, in their care.
Appalling treatment by the press Stephen, yes.  Have you forgotten the Leveson Enquiry already?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 12:27:12 PM
Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?

YET AGAIN you are making a link to a paedophile in the mccann case which simply hasn't been established.

The mccanns as her parents were her legal guardians and responsible for her safety.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Redwood wasn't on the Dando case so it's not surprising he didn't solve it

He wasn't in charge of the case.

It doesn't mean he wasn't on the investigative team with Horrocks and co.

They cocked up big time in that case.



Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on February 14, 2015, 12:33:00 PM
Appalling treatment by the press Stephen, yes.  Have you forgotten the Leveson Enquiry already?

That was only half of the story, Alfred. All of the papers at all times bent over backwards to assist the McCanns in their campaigns/PR, even the papers simultaneously running ridiculous front page stories. You haven't forgotten Leveson. We haven't forgotten Mitchell's Creepyman press conference.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 12:34:05 PM
So he didn't have images of child abuse in his possession?

He didn't exchange images of child abuse with other paedophiles?

I see.

I believe in justice & the rule of law.

He must be presumed innocent.

He was keeping Maddie in mind & looking for her.

That's what Kate & Gerry want.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 14, 2015, 12:37:39 PM
 Despite all his downloadings in his search for Madeleine, he still didn't find her.  Suggests that she most likely isn't there to find.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on February 14, 2015, 12:38:50 PM
I believe in justice & the rule of law.

He must be presumed innocent.

He was keeping Maddie in mind & looking for her.

That's what Kate & Gerry want.

So, you must apply this rule to Maddie's parents also, Spam?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 12:43:11 PM
So, you must apply this rule to Maddie's parents also, Spam?

Indeed, & Fred West, Jimmy Savile & Hitler.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 14, 2015, 02:17:08 PM
Despite all his downloadings in his search for Madeleine, he still didn't find her.  Suggests that she most likely isn't there to find.
I would suggest that his task, if genuine, would have been akin to looking for a very slim needle in a very large haystack.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 14, 2015, 02:20:14 PM
Despite all his downloadings in his search for Madeleine, he still didn't find her.  Suggests that she most likely isn't there to find.

maddie or her remains...and those responsible are certainly there to be found
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 14, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
maddie or her remains...and those responsible are certainly there to be found

I think their tracks are well covered by now - short of some sort of confession.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on February 14, 2015, 04:03:00 PM
I think their tracks are well covered by now - short of some sort of confession.

I believe you could be right there, jassi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Happy Valentines day, to you all. I hope you girlies got flowers and you boys remembered to buy them. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 14, 2015, 04:29:55 PM
I believe you could be right there, jassi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Happy Valentines day, to you all. I hope you girlies got flowers and you boys remembered to buy them. Have a nice day.

Same to you Anna. Some of us old gits do still get flowers  8**8:/:
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 06:34:56 PM
I believe you could be right there, jassi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Happy Valentines day, to you all. I hope you girlies got flowers and you boys remembered to buy them. Have a nice day.

We can agree on that Anna.

Have a good evening.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 17, 2015, 08:12:16 AM
I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.

You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."

Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.

IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?
To give the reader a glimpse of the horror that fills the mind of the mother of an abducted child, why do you think she did it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 10:29:37 AM
To give the reader a glimpse of the horror that fills the mind of the mother of an abducted child, why do you think she did it?

I think it was ill-advised and like the 'make-up' picture ( which of course to every rightminded person is absolutely innocent ) to some of a certain persuasion could be used to gratify themselves. I believe Mark William-Thomas felt the same and unless the McCanns are outrageously stupid, which we know they're not, they must have regarded it as a possibility too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 11:17:38 AM
I think it was ill-advised and like the 'make-up' picture ( which of course to every rightminded person is absolutely innocent ) to some of a certain persuasion could be used to gratify themselves. I believe Mark William-Thomas felt the same and unless the McCanns are outrageously stupid, which we know they're not, they must have regarded it as a possibility too.
Oh please.  To "some of a certain persuasion" the Junior Boden catalogue could be used to gratify themselves.  Does freedom of expression (something you are a BIG fan of) need to be curtailed on the off-chance some creep might be turned on by what you've written?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?

It's because she doesn't actually know how an innocent mother of a genuinely abducted child would feel, & so she had to fabricate it.

All part of the 'it was the paedos wot dunnit, it wasn't us really guv, honest' narrative.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 11:48:14 AM
Oh please.  To "some of a certain persuasion" the Junior Boden catalogue could be used to gratify themselves.  Does freedom of expression (something you are a BIG fan of) need to be curtailed on the off-chance some creep might be turned on by what you've written?

Yes if it's a child's safety that you may be jeopardising.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 12:09:37 PM
Yes if it's a child's safety that you may be jeopardising.
Whose safety did Kate jeopardise then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on February 17, 2015, 12:22:28 PM
It's because she doesn't actually know how an innocent mother of a genuinely abducted child would feel, & so she had to fabricate it.

All part of the 'it was the paedos wot dunnit, it wasn't us really guv, honest' narrative.

And you do?

Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on February 17, 2015, 12:24:45 PM
And you do?

Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?

Of course he does!

WS would make a wonderful mother ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2015, 12:43:29 PM
And you do?

Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?

I never said I did, but I'm certain that she doesn't.

I'm not buying the fantasy abduction, so save your words.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 03:03:19 PM
Whose safety did Kate jeopardise then?

In the beginning we are told the McCanns were told by experts not to show how upset they were because it may bring pleasure to whoever was holding Madeleine. That being the case surely even you can see how alerting that same kidnapper to the obscene pictures his abuse is causing in the mind of the child's mother may not be advisable ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
In the beginning we are told the McCanns were told by experts not to show how upset they were because it may bring pleasure to whoever was holding Madeleine. That being the case surely even you can see how alerting that same kidnapper to the obscene pictures his abuse is causing in the mind of the child's mother may not be advisable ?
I don't see how it puts into jeopardy the life of a child, but if it does then perhaps you could let me know what you think of the actions of those who are determined to draw attention to this short passage in the book at every available opportunity, of those who have even made a handy meme of the page number in question so that those seeking titillation from the passage don't even have to read through the whole book but can find it very easily - what say you to their actions, eh?  You see these same people whilst supposedly repulsed by this passage also seem curiously drawn to it, and intent on drawing others' attention to it, do you think this is wise, seeing as how it may in your view jeopardise the safety of children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2015, 06:06:47 PM

I don't understand what the fuss is all about.  The first thing in the mind of any terrified mother would be A Paedophile and what might be happening to a much loved daughter.
Why the word Genitals should upset some people so much is beyond my comprehension.  What other word would one use?  Unless of course these people find it to be disgusting.  In which case I might worry about their understanding of The English Language.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 17, 2015, 06:22:57 PM
I doubt it very much, Davel, I don't think it would matter what the McCanns said, what they did, what they wore or if they scratched their eyebrows ... some cause for complaint would be found.

Too right. I remember a poster nearly wetting thier knickers, because Gerry didn't have his wedding ring on for an interview he did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on February 18, 2015, 12:13:01 AM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article4357525.ece

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 18, 2015, 12:16:15 AM
Too right. I remember a poster nearly wetting thier knickers, because Gerry didn't have his wedding ring on for an interview he did.

Really ? Shameful behaviour !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 18, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
McCann tweets journalist told to reveal source

Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent
Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015

A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann.
The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions.
Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article4357525.ece
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 18, 2015, 08:47:47 AM
McCann tweets journalist told to reveal source

Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent
Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015

A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann.
The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions.
Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article4357525.ece

Excellent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 18, 2015, 10:14:51 AM
McCann tweets journalist told to reveal source

Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent
Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015

A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann.
The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions.
Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/medianews/article4357525.ece

"Ring twitter" time in some quarters I'll be bound.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2015, 11:53:55 AM
Excellent.

the full article states that brunt does not have to reveal his source....

excellent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 18, 2015, 12:08:17 PM
the full article states that brunt does not have to reveal his source....

excellent

I don't have access to the full article unfortunately.
Perhaps you will be kind enough to snip the part to which you refer and post it for us?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 18, 2015, 12:32:42 PM
the full article states that brunt does not have to reveal his source....

excellent

Excellent article when read in full.

"Leicestershire police wrote to Sky on behalf of the coroner, Catherine Mason, asking a series of questions including the identity of the person who was behind the dossier of tweets. Sky has said that it will protect its source, arguing that its rights are protected under European law. It is understood that neither the police nor the coroner have responded since".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 18, 2015, 12:35:08 PM
Excellent article when read in full.

"Leicestershire police wrote to Sky on behalf of the coroner, Catherine Mason, asking a series of questions including the identity of the person who was behind the dossier of tweets. Sky has said that it will protect its source, arguing that its rights are protected under European law. It is understood that neither the police nor the coroner have responded since".

That skates rather gently round the Coroners powers one feels.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on February 18, 2015, 12:38:56 PM
That skates rather gently round the Coroners powers one feels.

It says that while coroners now have more powers they don't necessarily have the experience or expertise of media lawyers in this area.

Which isn't quite what davel is claiming it says.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 18, 2015, 01:21:54 PM
It says that while coroners now have more powers they don't necessarily have the experience or expertise of media lawyers in this area.

Which isn't quite what davel is claiming it says.

read the full article ....  it isn't me claiming sky will not reveal their sources...it's sky
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on February 18, 2015, 01:34:29 PM
read the full article ....  it isn't me claiming sky will not reveal their sources...it's sky

Well of course they're going to say that.  8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 18, 2015, 04:22:55 PM
You wonder how the authorities found out about all the policemen selling stories to the papers?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 24, 2015, 01:48:07 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2963725/Huge-rise-numbers-children-snatched-Britain-900-minors-taken-strangers-parents-past-year.html

Number of child kidnappings in Britain increased by a fifth in the last year
Kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13% in 2013-14
The vast majority of abductions, 401 from 559, carried out by strangers
Number of children being abducted by parents was also up by six per cent
Figures were compiled by charity Parents and Abducted Children Together
They believe there is a different attitude to reporting such crimes in wake of Rotherham scandal.


The number of children in Britain who have been snatched has increased with almost 900 youngsters taken by strangers or their parents in the last year, a new report reveals.

Figures gathered by police forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and the charity Parents and Abducted Children Together (Pact) show that child kidnappings have increased by almost a fifth.

During 2013-14, kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13 per cent since the previous year.Kidnappings alone, which are defined as using force or fraud to remove a child, increased at a faster rate, rising by 18 per cent over the same period.

Most abductions, 401 out of 559, were carried out by people other than the children's parents, while 321 were kidnapped.


The number of children being abducted by parents was 158, up by six per cent on the previous year.

And the charity believe the increase in numbers since 2012-13 could be down to a different attitude in recording such crimes in the light of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandalPact's director of research Geoff Newiss said: 'I would imagine that (Rotherham) is something to do with it.

'I wouldn't be surprised if forces are more sensitive now to the need to record what comes their way.'

The highest rate of child abduction and kidnap was in Northern Ireland, with 11.6 offences per 100,00 children in the last year.

Meanwhile the lowest was in Wales where there were 4.5 offences per 100,000 children.

The largest forces such as the Metropolitan Police recorded the highest number of cases, while kidnapping and abduction offences in Lancashire doubled and there were also significant increases in Kent, North Yorkshire and Northumbria.

Mr Newiss added: 'Our analysis shows quite alarming rises in child abduction and kidnapping over the last two years.'However, it's difficult to say whether this is a consequence of victims being more likely to report crime, changes in the way police record it, or a genuine increase in offending.

'It is important to stress that child abduction or kidnapping is relatively rare.

'However, we know that many incidents go unreported to, or unrecorded by, the police.'

While Susannah Drury, Director of Policy for Missing People, said: 'The report has uncovered worrying increases in child abductions and kidnapping offences - highlighting the importance of a quick and effective national response to these crimes. '

The Association of Chief Police Officers say there has been a significant increase in the recording of these kinds of crimes due to a 'considerable focus' on improving crime-recording practices.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Worrying statistics - unless you don't believe in abductions.



















Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on February 24, 2015, 06:22:17 AM
Excellent.

Thought people knew who the source was, i am sure i was on a forum and saw a discussion congratulating a certain person for sending all the stuff to sky lol.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 24, 2015, 08:38:28 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2963725/Huge-rise-numbers-children-snatched-Britain-900-minors-taken-strangers-parents-past-year.html

Number of child kidnappings in Britain increased by a fifth in the last year
Kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13% in 2013-14
The vast majority of abductions, 401 from 559, carried out by strangers
Number of children being abducted by parents was also up by six per cent
Figures were compiled by charity Parents and Abducted Children Together
They believe there is a different attitude to reporting such crimes in wake of Rotherham scandal.


The number of children in Britain who have been snatched has increased with almost 900 youngsters taken by strangers or their parents in the last year, a new report reveals.

Figures gathered by police forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and the charity Parents and Abducted Children Together (Pact) show that child kidnappings have increased by almost a fifth.

During 2013-14, kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13 per cent since the previous year.Kidnappings alone, which are defined as using force or fraud to remove a child, increased at a faster rate, rising by 18 per cent over the same period.

Most abductions, 401 out of 559, were carried out by people other than the children's parents, while 321 were kidnapped.


The number of children being abducted by parents was 158, up by six per cent on the previous year.

And the charity believe the increase in numbers since 2012-13 could be down to a different attitude in recording such crimes in the light of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandalPact's director of research Geoff Newiss said: 'I would imagine that (Rotherham) is something to do with it.

'I wouldn't be surprised if forces are more sensitive now to the need to record what comes their way.'

The highest rate of child abduction and kidnap was in Northern Ireland, with 11.6 offences per 100,00 children in the last year.

Meanwhile the lowest was in Wales where there were 4.5 offences per 100,000 children.

The largest forces such as the Metropolitan Police recorded the highest number of cases, while kidnapping and abduction offences in Lancashire doubled and there were also significant increases in Kent, North Yorkshire and Northumbria.

Mr Newiss added: 'Our analysis shows quite alarming rises in child abduction and kidnapping over the last two years.'However, it's difficult to say whether this is a consequence of victims being more likely to report crime, changes in the way police record it, or a genuine increase in offending.

'It is important to stress that child abduction or kidnapping is relatively rare.

'However, we know that many incidents go unreported to, or unrecorded by, the police.'

While Susannah Drury, Director of Policy for Missing People, said: 'The report has uncovered worrying increases in child abductions and kidnapping offences - highlighting the importance of a quick and effective national response to these crimes. '

The Association of Chief Police Officers say there has been a significant increase in the recording of these kinds of crimes due to a 'considerable focus' on improving crime-recording practices.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Worrying statistics - unless you don't believe in abductions.


An alarmingly high number. Strange that we don't seem to have anything like that number reported in the popular press.
 There was no indication, either, of how many of these cases led to charges and prosecutions.

Perhaps all will be revealed in another report.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 24, 2015, 10:54:01 AM

An alarmingly high number. Strange that we don't seem to have anything like that number reported in the popular press.
 There was no indication, either, of how many of these cases led to charges and prosecutions.

Perhaps all will be revealed in another report.

stranger abductions of small children, like Maddie and Ben will be reported in the MSM and are extremely rare....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 24, 2015, 11:21:10 AM
Agreed, but the report is about children.
Unfortunately the DM give no link to this report so one can only guess at what is included in the figures quoted.

For those who want to wade through it, the report can be found here - http://www.childabduction.org.uk/images/PACT_Child_Abduction_report_2015_final.pdf   but there are no details about what was included, nor any indication of prosecutions or outcomes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 01:05:18 AM
Does anyone know anything about the event to remember Madeleine reportedly taking on the 5th of March ?  There doesn't seem to be much talk of it  on the two main supporter forums or the OFM Facebook page
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2015, 07:32:09 AM
Does anyone know anything about the event to remember Madeleine reportedly taking on the 5th of March ?  There doesn't seem to be much talk of it  on the two main supporter forums or the OFM Facebook page

where did you hear about it...that will tell us a lot
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 09:08:33 AM
where did you hear about it...that will tell us a lot

https://mobile.twitter.com/hopeforMM/status/569775995827425281/photos

https://mobile.twitter.com/hopeforMM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 10:37:07 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/hopeforMM/status/569775995827425281/photos

https://mobile.twitter.com/hopeforMM

Thank you DCI but it would seem that the # is just another excuse for the supporters and sceptics to insult each other. There also appears to be no interest in the initiative from the largest supporter forums who seem to almost have forgotten Madeleine in favour of their campaign to demonise non-believers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 10:57:10 AM
Thank you DCI but it would seem that the # is just another excuse for the supporters and sceptics to insult each other. There also appears to be no interest in the initiative from the largest supporter forums who seem to almost have forgotten Madeleine in favour of their campaign to demonise non-believers.

Probably because it's nothing to do with the McCanns. It's just another Facebook page set up by someone named Richard. I see only sceptics posted on there insulting was Xclamation and JillyC throwing insults at each other.
That's the difference between us, I care about Madeliene, and no one forgets her.

How many supporters are on there compared to sceptics? 000000000000000
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 12:32:04 PM
Probably because it's nothing to do with the McCanns. It's just another Facebook page set up by someone named Richard. I see only sceptics posted on there insulting was Xclamation and JillyC throwing insults at each other.
That's the difference between us, I care about Madeliene, and no one forgets her.

How many supporters are on there compared to sceptics? 000000000000000

It seems to me that if the OFM campaign can encourage their supporters to get behind the HackedOff campaign they could also harness that goodwill to get behind this initiative to remember Madeleine,don't you think ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 12:36:40 PM
It seems to me that if the OFM campaign can encourage their supporters to get behind the HackedOff campaign they could also harness that goodwill to get behind this initiative to remember Madeleine,don't you think ?

Take it up with them then!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 12:42:39 PM
Take it up with them then!

Well let's hope they read here eh DCI  8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 25, 2015, 01:53:05 PM

Is this something akin to the the march timed to coincide with the anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance organised by the people who fought tooth and nail to prevent the reopening of the investigation into her case?

If so, my apologies, as it more properly should be in the thread dealing with obsessives.

If not ... why on earth would anyone in their right mind wish to be tainted by association with the organisation of anything making free use of Madeleine McCann's name to campaign against her?


no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
Add your name to march for Madeleine Beth Mccann on the 3rd may 2014 http://m.facebook.com/events/253773958105731 … #mccann

 
 Rothley Pillowcase™
‏@RothleyPillow
@march4maddie1 CONGRATUALTIONS in getting so many justice-seekers for Maddie onto your page! Nudge me for RTs anytime bud #McCann #Savile


no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
@RothleyPillow cheers Roth I will good support is hard to find usually! Not in this case the tide is turning #mccann
0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite
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Rothley Pillowcase™ ‏@RothleyPillow  24 Nov 2013
@march4maddie1 Tell me about it! LOL The desperately depraved #McCann cult THREATENED us with the press again So erm >  #GREATPublicityIfSo
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no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
@RothleyPillow really missed it :( you know when their getting scared #mccann
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 03:18:58 PM
Is this something akin to the the march timed to coincide with the anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance organised by the people who fought tooth and nail to prevent the reopening of the investigation into her case?

If so, my apologies, as it more properly should be in the thread dealing with obsessives.

If not ... why on earth would anyone in their right mind wish to be tainted by association with the organisation of anything making free use of Madeleine McCann's name to campaign against her?


no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
Add your name to march for Madeleine Beth Mccann on the 3rd may 2014 http://m.facebook.com/events/253773958105731 … #mccann

 
 Rothley Pillowcase™
‏@RothleyPillow
@march4maddie1 CONGRATUALTIONS in getting so many justice-seekers for Maddie onto your page! Nudge me for RTs anytime bud #McCann #Savile


no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
@RothleyPillow cheers Roth I will good support is hard to find usually! Not in this case the tide is turning #mccann
0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite
 Reply  Retweet1  Favourite1
More
 

Rothley Pillowcase™ ‏@RothleyPillow  24 Nov 2013
@march4maddie1 Tell me about it! LOL The desperately depraved #McCann cult THREATENED us with the press again So erm >  #GREATPublicityIfSo
0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite
 Reply  Retweet1  Favourite1
More
 

no comment! ‏@march4maddie1  24 Nov 2013
@RothleyPillow really missed it :( you know when their getting scared #mccann

Nothing like that  Brietta. This is, reportedly, to give supporters the chance to show that they have not forgotten Madeleine. Unfortunately as the usual suspects don't seem as mad keen on remembering Madeleine as the do compiling dossier and bad-mouthing anyone who isn't singing from the McCann-endorsed hymn sheet it unfortunately looks like it's going to be a bit of a damp squib.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 25, 2015, 03:35:59 PM
Nothing like that  Brietta. This is, reportedly, to give supporters the chance to show that they have not forgotten Madeleine. Unfortunately as the usual suspects don't seem as mad keen on remembering Madeleine as the do compiling dossier and bad-mouthing anyone who isn't singing from the McCann-endorsed hymn sheet it unfortunately looks like it's going to be a bit of a damp squib.

perhaps some of us are not obsessed as you think we are and are content to leave SY to do their job.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 03:52:26 PM
perhaps some of us are not obsessed as you think we are and are content to leave SY to do their job.

Are you saying you have to be obsessed publicly show your support for a little girl who is missing Davel ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on February 25, 2015, 04:30:02 PM
Agreed, but the report is about children.
Unfortunately the DM give no link to this report so one can only guess at what is included in the figures quoted.

For those who want to wade through it, the report can be found here - http://www.childabduction.org.uk/images/PACT_Child_Abduction_report_2015_final.pdf   but there are no details about what was included, nor any indication of prosecutions or outcomes.

Thanks Jassi. I'll have a go at wading through it.

The last time I tried to read through the few abduction / kidnapping reports available, I gave up.

Different studies used different criteria (including definitions); murdered children didn't necessarily appear as having been kidnapped / abducted as they were listed in the murdered or raped category; databases didn't seem to be compatible with others...

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 27, 2015, 09:20:28 PM
Excuse the following off topic post.

Just heard about the death of Leonard Nimoy, who of course is well known for playing Spock.

A true icon who has met his final frontier.

Best wishes to his family and friends.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on February 27, 2015, 09:37:21 PM
US actor Leonard Nimoy, who played Mr Spock in the cult sci-fi series Star Trek, has died at the age of 83 in Los Angeles, his family has said.
His son, Adam, said he died of end-stage chronic obstructive pulmonary disease on Friday morning.
Nimoy had a long career as both an actor and director.
However he was best known for his portrayal of the half-human, half-Vulcan character in both the TV franchise and series of films.
Last year, the actor revealed he was suffering chronic lung disease COPD, despite stopping smoking 30 years ago.
It was reported earlier this week he had been taken to hospital on 19 February after suffering from chest pains.
He later tweeted: "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory."
He signed off what was to be his final tweet with "LLAP" - a reference to his character's famous catchphrase, "Live long and prosper".

The same Twitter account was used by his granddaughter to confirm that he died at home on Friday in Bel-Air, California.
Dani Nimoy said her grandfather was an "extraordinary man, husband, grandfather, brother, actor, author - the list goes on - and friend."
She added that special merchandise was being added to Nimoy's website, with all proceeds going to the COPD foundation.
George Takei, who played Hikaru Sulu on Star Trek and was a friend of Nimoy's, paid tribute to the actor.
"The word extraordinary is often overused but I think it's really appropriate for Leonard", Mr Takei told US broadcaster MSNBC.
"He was an extraordinarily talented man but he was also a very decent human being."
Among the torrent of tributes on Twitter was a message from Nasa crediting Nimoy and Star Trek as an inspiration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31662024
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on February 28, 2015, 06:27:52 AM
See the dogs are back again, linked to the McCann case for this Bristol girl gone missing.....clever of the The Mirror to use her name to sell more papers....jeez give me a break.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rebecca-watts-missing-madeleine-mccann-5239716
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 08:04:59 AM

Thanks, Anna.  I could almost say My Hero.  I watched in real time, every one of the first Star Trek Series, which was a whole new concept at the time.
I am in fact  A Trekky to this day.  I still think that The Whale Film was the best ever.  And of course the whole thing carried a moral message, so he and the rest of them gave something good to the world of entertainment.  He will be missed, not least by me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
Thanks, Anna.  I could almost say My Hero.  I watched in real time, every one of the first Star Trek Series, which was a whole new concept at the time.
I am in fact  A Trekky to this day.  I still think that The Whale Film was the best ever.  And of course the whole thing carried a moral message, so he and the rest of them gave something good to the world of entertainment.  He will be missed, not least by me.

Yes, thanks to Anna for that.

I totally echo your sentiments Eleanor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 08:42:59 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 08:53:02 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...

So Alfred, do you think Galloway is 'anti-semitic' ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2015, 08:56:31 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...

 ... Tweeters Beware!   Gorgeous is very litigious ... and very successful when he does sue ... so this could be interesting for us and expensive for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 08:58:00 AM
Yes, thanks to Anna for that.

I totally echo your sentiments Eleanor.

Thanks, Stephen.  Apparently he was a really nice man in real life, and he stayed married to the same woman for years and years.  That is a miracle in itself.
I hope he is still out there somewhere, looking after the Whales.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 09:02:06 AM
Thanks, Stephen.  Apparently he was a really nice man in real life, and he stayed married to the same woman for years and years.  That is a miracle in itself.
I hope he is still out there somewhere, looking after the Whales.

I met him once very briefly at a book signing at Brent Cross.

He was very charming.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 09:20:47 AM
I met him once very briefly at a book signing at Brent Cross.

He was very charming.

Wow.  I wish I had met him.  But I would almost certainly have made a right fool of myself.  #LLAP.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 09:35:13 AM
Wow.  I wish I had met him.  But I would almost certainly have made a right fool of myself.  #LLAP.

It was pure luck in me being there.

I was just looking in WH Smiths for a book whilst my wife was shopping.

P.S. IMO, The original series were the best.

Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2015, 09:37:12 AM
has this become the LN thread now....what happened to please stay on topic
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2015, 09:39:10 AM
What do posters think of the unmasking of Jihadi John
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 09:50:05 AM
It was pure luck in me being there.

I was just looking in WH Smiths for a book whilst my wife was shopping.

P.S. IMO, The original series were the best.

Yes, the original series was the best.  And The Whale Film.  I am going to go and watch that again shortly.  It always makes me cry.  #LLAP.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 09:53:41 AM
Yes, the original series was the best.  And The Whale Film.  I am going to go and watch that again shortly.  It always makes me cry.  #LLAP.

'There be Whales'.

..........Scotty 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 28, 2015, 09:59:51 AM
'There be Whales'.

..........Scotty 8((()*/

My favourite bit of that film was.....

'Doctor gave me a pill & I grew a new kidney'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 10:02:37 AM
My favourite bit of that film was.....

'Doctor gave me a pill & I grew a new kidney'

I enjoyed that one to, along with Koenig's Russian accent, and the 'nuclear wessels' @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 10:18:36 AM
My favourite bit of that film was.....

'Doctor gave me a pill & I grew a new kidney'

Go away.  some of us are enjoying ourselves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 28, 2015, 10:36:32 AM
What do posters think of the unmasking of Jihadi John

Like the curates egg?
Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit.
His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection.
I hope they unmasked the right bloke.
Just random thoughts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2015, 10:52:54 AM
Like the curates egg?
Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit.
His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection.
I hope they unmasked the right bloke.
Just random thoughts.

I certainly hope it's the right bloke...is anyone claiming it isn't him
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2015, 10:54:15 AM
Like the curates egg?
Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit.
His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection.
I hope they unmasked the right bloke.
Just random thoughts.

I think 'they've' probably had a very good idea of exactly who he is for some time now ... I seem to remember we might have been helping these guys when we thought they were our 'friends' and were being downtrodden by nasty dictators.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 28, 2015, 02:10:10 PM
As long as he's funding it himself I don't think it's anyone else's business.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2015, 02:12:55 PM
As long as he's funding it himself I don't think it's anyone else's business.

who are you talking about
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 02:20:35 PM
So Alfred, do you think Galloway is 'anti-semitic' ?
Of course not!  Are you trying to get me sued for libel?!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2015, 02:29:05 PM
who are you talking about

I wondered that but was far too polite to ask.

We are seeing the western hostages for the shock! horror! values represented in them ... we are not seeing the many hundreds of indigenous populations being similarly dispatched in the lands controlled by these, in many cases, expensively educated courtesy of the British tax payers persons.

But no problems as long as they pay their own fares apparently.  I just hope they didn't invest in a return ticket as they will probably expect to continue doing what they do without let or hindrance wherever they may be.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Davel on February 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
I am glad to see George doing this...I don't think he is a sceptic and have always admired him. I don't think he's anti semitic either and to a certain extent has been proved right about the middle east. By removing these dictators...who were actually keeping the peace... a far worse force has been released
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 28, 2015, 04:01:39 PM
I think 'they've' probably had a very good idea of exactly who he is for some time now ... I seem to remember we might have been helping these guys when we thought they were our 'friends' and were being downtrodden by nasty dictators.

You are not wide of the mark unfortunately. William "the 15 pint a day Dreyman" Hague thought we should help them. Then we joined the Americans in the simplistic "mine enemy's enemy is my friend" foreign policy strategy. However for those old enough remember the 1960s/1970s middle east stuff which was equally as bad in some respects as now the Israelis carried out an effective (ish) plan. You can always find a nutter but the money is another thing, so knock off the financial backers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 28, 2015, 04:45:50 PM
You are not wide of the mark unfortunately. William "the 15 pint a day Dreyman" Hague thought we should help them. Then we joined the Americans in the simplistic "mine enemy's enemy is my friend" foreign policy strategy. However for those old enough remember the 1960s/1970s middle east stuff which was equally as bad in some respects as now the Israelis carried out an effective (ish) plan. You can always find a nutter but the money is another thing, so knock off the financial backers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on February 28, 2015, 06:17:28 PM
who are you talking about

Apologies George Galloway.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 06:22:08 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets.  If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 28, 2015, 06:24:10 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets.  If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.

If you've not got a pot to piss in, then what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 06:27:58 PM
If you've not got a pot to piss in, then what?
£10 a week for 10 years should cover it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 28, 2015, 06:33:12 PM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend)

If you are old enough to remember Hopalong Cassidy films you will recall that the "Blackhat" who becomes an "Honorary Whitehat" always but always winds up jed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 28, 2015, 11:10:41 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets.  If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.

It says that people with money will always be able to silence people without.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 12:04:07 AM
It says that people with money will always be able to silence people without.
Only if the people without money are telling blatant lies about the people with money.  Is Galloway fabulously wealthy anyway?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 01, 2015, 07:29:37 AM
Only if the people without money are telling blatant lies about the people with money.  Is Galloway fabulously wealthy anyway?

Truth is very rarely explored.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 09:54:39 AM
Truth is very rarely explored.
Should people be allowed to libel with impunity those who have more money than themselves, in your view?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 01, 2015, 09:59:04 AM

There seems to be some weird idea that if a persons owns nothing then they have nothing to fear.  This is not the case.  There are other means.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on March 01, 2015, 10:27:47 AM
Should people be allowed to libel with impunity those who have more money than themselves, in your view?

Of course not but on the other hand people with money should not be allowed to use that money to silence people with less.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 01, 2015, 10:33:40 AM
There seems to be some weird idea that if a persons owns nothing then they have nothing to fear.  This is not the case.  There are other means.

....Like?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 10:49:28 AM
Of course not but on the other hand people with money should not be allowed to use that money to silence people with less.
so your view is that people should not be allowed to libel people with more money than themselves but that people should not be allowed to pursue libel actions against those with less money than themselves?  That makes sense - not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on March 01, 2015, 10:55:10 AM
so your view is that people should not be allowed to libel people with more money than themselves but that people should not be allowed to pursue libel actions against those with less money than themselves?  That makes sense - not.

What I'm saying is that in a fairer world it would be a much more even playing field.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 11:00:32 AM
What I'm saying is that in a fairer world it would be a much more even playing field.
I'm talking about the world we currently live in, not some fairyland Utopia.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Faithlilly on March 01, 2015, 11:08:26 AM
I'm talking about the world we currently live in, not some fairyland Utopia.

Then if we are talking about reality your original question becomes somewhat redundant. Poor people do not libel those who are richer with impunity. Whether that is right or not is academic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 01, 2015, 11:27:48 AM

Perhaps people just shouldn't libel other people.  Libel isn't difficult to define.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 11:54:05 AM
Then if we are talking about reality your original question becomes somewhat redundant. Poor people do not libel those who are richer with impunity. Whether that is right or not is academic.
You are joking aren't you?  Are you telling me that all the "sceptics" on twitter are either a) richer than those they are libelling every day, or b) being punished for doing so?