Author Topic: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?  (Read 9109 times)

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Online ShiningInLuz

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »
You really have lost me there ... I cannot see any similarity between Madeleine McCann's case and the content of the film ... the nearest comparison in MO I think is with the Yorkshire Ripper.

It's about the tools, techniques, procedure and organisation used by 'Britain's finest", shortly before Madeleine disappeared.

It puts the capability of a large team of UK detectives into direct comparison with the PJ.

And @VS, it would be relevant whatever Sutton has done recently.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2019, 11:05:20 AM »
It's about the tools, techniques, procedure and organisation used by 'Britain's finest", shortly before Madeleine disappeared.

It puts the capability of a large team of UK detectives into direct comparison with the PJ.

And @VS, it would be relevant whatever Sutton has done recently.
How do the Met compare with the PJ then?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2019, 11:26:01 AM »
Of course it is, they were there experiencing the incompetence first hand.

Perceived incompetence, them not being experts in police procedures in either Portugal or the UK. No police force accepts the opinion of a civilian as to what crime has been committed, and that's all the McCanns were able to offer.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2019, 11:31:34 AM »
When you saw how the NOTW’s threat to publish information about the investigation before the suspect’s arrest could have skewed the whole investigation you can see what the PJ were up against with half the world’s media camped on their doorstep, looking for copy.

That reminded me of the police taking the BBC with them when they raided a famous pop star's home.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2019, 11:35:21 AM »
Perceived incompetence, them not being experts in police procedures in either Portugal or the UK. No police force accepts the opinion of a civilian as to what crime has been committed, and that's all the McCanns were able to offer.
So you don't agree that there was any incompetence on the part of the PJ at any point of the initial investigation?  Furthermore do you think that police forces the world over should be exempt from criticism by the general public because the general public tends not to be experts in police procedure?  How about Stephen Lawrence's mother?  Was she out of order to criticise the Met, not being an expert and all? 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2019, 11:44:39 AM »
It's about the tools, techniques, procedure and organisation used by 'Britain's finest", shortly before Madeleine disappeared.

It puts the capability of a large team of UK detectives into direct comparison with the PJ.

And @VS, it would be relevant whatever Sutton has done recently.

The Met had the advantage of a shared language, HOLMES and CCTV footage. I don't think their procedures or organisation were superior to those of the PJ though.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2019, 11:51:56 AM »
The Met had the advantage of a shared language, HOLMES and CCTV footage. I don't think their procedures or organisation were superior to those of the PJ though.
Upon what do you base that belief?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2019, 11:56:31 AM »
So you don't agree that there was any incompetence on the part of the PJ at any point of the initial investigation?  Furthermore do you think that police forces the world over should be exempt from criticism by the general public because the general public tends not to be experts in police procedure?  How about Stephen Lawrence's mother?  Was she out of order to criticise the Met, not being an expert and all?

You seem to be saying that criticism is justified only if you agree with those doing it. Do you agree with those who have criticised Redwood's replacement of Tannerman with Crecheman?
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2019, 12:03:15 PM »
You seem to be saying that criticism is justified only if you agree with those doing it. Do you agree with those who have criticised Redwood's replacement of Tannerman with Crecheman?
I agree with criticism when the full facts are known, or when one has first hand experience of the incompetence and has been directly affected by it.  I don't have any criticism for Andy Redwood, so no I don't agree with it, why should I?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2019, 12:08:55 PM »
Upon what do you base that belief?

On my reading of the PJ files, Amaral's book and watching Manhunt. The PJ have a national force, for example, which enables better cooperation. The UK police suffer, in my opinion, by having autonomous regional forces. The Surrey police resented the Met offering their help with the Dowler case.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2019, 12:13:38 PM »
I found that particularly interesting given the demise of that Murdoch rag and some who worked at it. The Press have always had far too much power to influence events in this country with the current Brexit debacle being a current example.

Is it worth giving 'Manhunt' it's own thread John? I think Sutton's account of his investigation quite helpful as a comparison with the PJ's investigation of the McCann case. It's also enlightening as to how OG must have approached their investigative review.
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Offline Davel

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2019, 12:14:09 PM »
On my reading of the PJ files, Amaral's book and watching Manhunt. The PJ have a national force, for example, which enables better cooperation. The UK police suffer, in my opinion, by having autonomous regional forces. The Surrey police resented the Met offering their help with the Dowler case.

Do you think the, investigation into Maddie's disappearance suffered because the PJ thought they haf proof Maddie died in the apartment and was carried in the hire car.... Or do you think that was unimportant
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2019, 12:20:24 PM »
I found that particularly interesting given the demise of that Murdoch rag and some who worked at it. The Press have always had far too much power to influence events in this country with the current Brexit debacle being a current example.

The fact that the Met couldn't stop the News of the World from printing a story concerning a live murder enquiry is worrying.
That's the price of a free press.  Or we could go down the Hacked Off route...
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2019, 12:21:36 PM »
On my reading of the PJ files, Amaral's book and watching Manhunt. The PJ have a national force, for example, which enables better cooperation. The UK police suffer, in my opinion, by having autonomous regional forces. The Surrey police resented the Met offering their help with the Dowler case.
Do you not see any parallels between the attitude of the Surrey police and the PJ's initial investigation?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2019, 12:38:39 PM »
Do you not see any parallels between the attitude of the Surrey police and the PJ's initial investigation?

It all comes down to justification in my opinion According to the drama Sutton didn't give Surrey police any reason to believe he went there as a know-all from The Met.

According to Gamble the UK police did give the PJ  the impression that they were the 'experts'. 
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