Author Topic: Doors, windows and shutters  (Read 264 times)

ShiningInLuz (+ 3 Hidden) and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #30 on: Today at 10:39:39 AM »
If you're crying now you just wait! Every single subject I look at in this case is the same; different stories which imo don't make sense.

I don't think they took a buggy at all. Gerry's method of entering and exiting the apartment does indeed seem convoluted, not to mention dangerous. It was much easier for them all to use the front door.

When you say different stories you mean T9 accounts all vary? 

I must have completely misunderstood/misinterpreted the section in the book about the buggy.  Even after I read it I thought that's weird taking a single buggy but you're right I've gone back to the section of the book and KM says they preferred to travel light and didn't take the twin buggy and when necessary they carried the twins so no single buggy. 

Yes I agree it sounds odd to me that you would want the twins toddling down those concrete steps onto the road with MM in tow.  Far safer and easier I would have thought to exit the front door? 
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Online Davel

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #31 on: Today at 10:45:19 AM »
When you say different stories you mean T9 accounts all vary? 

I must have completely misunderstood/misinterpreted the section in the book about the buggy.  Even after I read it I thought that's weird taking a single buggy but you're right I've gone back to the section of the book and KM says they preferred to travel light and didn't take the twin buggy and when necessary they carried the twins so no single buggy. 

Yes I agree it sounds odd to me that you would want the twins toddling down those concrete steps onto the road with MM in tow.  Far safer and easier I would have thought to exit the front door?

if they were goingto the OC going through the front door would be at least twice the distance
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Eleanor

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #32 on: Today at 10:46:37 AM »
Chloroform has problems with smell and reactions to it. If doesn't last long either.

The smell dissipates very quickly, and it didn't have to last very long.

Online The General

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #33 on: Today at 10:46:47 AM »
I was saying maybe the abductor, if that's how MM disappeared, went in on an earlier occasion to adjust locks, shutters and make any abduction easier.  You seemed to be saying that you didn't think someone would take the risk of going in twice?
Yeh, I find that concept highly unlikely. Even the most insensible burglar wouldn't consider going in to prepare the ground for an easier passage a second time. They'd just scoop her up and foxtrot oscar.
It's like a burglar making entry, seeing a suitcase full of used notes, open a window and a shutter, turning round, leaving, mooching about, then going back in to snatch the suitcase using the new route despite making straightforward access once before.
That, in my opinion, is lunacy.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:55:15 AM by The General »
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Online The General

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #34 on: Today at 10:49:27 AM »
The smell dissipates very quickly, and it didn't have to last very long.
Chloroform
Most Deleted Posts 2019

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #35 on: Today at 10:53:20 AM »
The abductor might have gone in on an earlier occasion and disturbed the children, so went back for another try.
I don't find that odd.

I was thinking:

Sat - T9 and C8 all ate at Millennium
Sun - T9 at Tapas - no C3 crying from 5a
Mon - T9 at Tapas - no C3 crying from 5a
Tue - T9 at Tapas - Mrs Fenn heard crying from 10.30 - 11.45 (KM omits this from her book)
Wed - T9 at Tapas - MM states on Thu 'Why didn't you come when Shaun and I cried last night')
Thu - T9 at Tapas until 10pm when KM finds MM gone

To my mind important details appear to have been overlooked.  I would like to know if Mrs Fenn was certain she heard crying on the Tue and it wasn't the Wed.  This could have been easily checked by checking phone records between Mrs Fenn and her friend Edna Glyn ie Mrs Fenn said she called her friend during this crying to tell her about it.
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Online Eleanor

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #36 on: Today at 10:56:32 AM »
I was thinking:

Sat - T9 and C8 all ate at Millennium
Sun - T9 at Tapas - no C3 crying from 5a
Mon - T9 at Tapas - no C3 crying from 5a
Tue - T9 at Tapas - Mrs Fenn heard crying from 10.30 - 11.45 (KM omits this from her book)
Wed - T9 at Tapas - MM states on Thu 'Why didn't you come when Shaun and I cried last night')
Thu - T9 at Tapas until 10pm when KM finds MM gone

To my mind important details appear to have been overlooked.  I would like to know if Mrs Fenn was certain she heard crying on the Tue and it wasn't the Wed.  This could have been easily checked by checking phone records between Mrs Fenn and her friend Edna Glyn ie Mrs Fenn said she called her friend during this crying to tell her about it.

You are correct.  The Investigation was a shambles.  Amaral desperately needed The McCanns to be guilty, although more likely Kate McCann.

Online G-Unit

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #37 on: Today at 11:05:26 AM »
When you say different stories you mean T9 accounts all vary? 

I must have completely misunderstood/misinterpreted the section in the book about the buggy.  Even after I read it I thought that's weird taking a single buggy but you're right I've gone back to the section of the book and KM says they preferred to travel light and didn't take the twin buggy and when necessary they carried the twins so no single buggy. 

Yes I agree it sounds odd to me that you would want the twins toddling down those concrete steps onto the road with MM in tow.  Far safer and easier I would have thought to exit the front door?

They do vary. Even so. it should be possible to find answers to questions, but it's very difficult.
 
Kate only described one day in detail, but she doesn't mention usung tha oatio doors at all that day. I think rhose steps are totally wrong for small children. Steep, no handrail and narrow. Would there be room for a Mum holding twins by their hands? I think not. Even if Gerry ran round, up the steps and picked one of them up while Kate carried the other down there was still MM to get down too. It was much easier to use the front door imo.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #38 on: Today at 11:13:54 AM »
Yeh, I find that concept highly unlikely. Even the most insensible burglar wouldn't consider going in to prepare the ground for an easier passage a second time. They'd just scoop her up and foxtrot oscar.
It's like a burglar making entry, seeing a suitcase full of used notes, open a window and a shutter, turning round, leaving, mooching about, then going back in to snatch the suitcase using the new route despite making straightforward access once before.
That, in my opinion, is lunacy.

Maybe but an inanimate object is potentially easier to take than a 4 year old child albeit possibly sleeping. 

Other possibilities are that someone was carrying out a sexual assault that involved voyeurism either externally by lifting the shutter and possibly opening the window or internally by standing around her bed.  It then progressed either in 5a and MM was then removed or she was removed beforehand.

As I understand it all the research shows paedophiles rarely go from nothing to serious sexual assault.  It starts by viewing child pornography and then progresses to molestation to more serious sexual assaults. 

I think in this case someone within the complex ie another MW guest had an unhealthy sexual interest in children that was probably brought to the fore by seeing lots of children running around in swimwear etc plus the individual may well have been drinking, as people do on hol, and a low-risk opportunity presented courtesy of the McCanns "childcare arrangements" which most guests could easily observe. 
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Offline jassi

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #39 on: Today at 11:18:43 AM »
Maybe but an inanimate object is potentially easier to take than a 4 year old child albeit possibly sleeping. 

Other possibilities are that someone was carrying out a sexual assault that involved voyeurism either externally by lifting the shutter and possibly opening the window or internally by standing around her bed.  It then progressed either in 5a and MM was then removed or she was removed beforehand.

As I understand it all the research shows paedophiles rarely go from nothing to serious sexual assault.  It starts by viewing child pornography and then progresses to molestation to more serious sexual assaults. 

I think in this case someone within the complex ie another MW guest had an unhealthy sexual interest in children that was probably brought to the fore by seeing lots of children running around in swimwear etc plus the individual may well have been drinking, as people do on hol, and a low-risk opportunity presented courtesy of the McCanns "childcare arrangements" which most guests could easily observe.

So you favour the paedophilia angle. Not much chance for an unharmed Madeleine in that case.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #40 on: Today at 11:19:12 AM »
if they were goingto the OC going through the front door would be at least twice the distance

Yes they would have to walk along the wall (car park side) and then out through the car park and along the side of the apartment but imo I still see this as easier, quicker and safer than KM managing the twins and MM down the flight of concrete steps onto the road.  Remember MM tripped on the aircraft steps on her outbound flight. 
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Online Davel

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #41 on: Today at 11:21:31 AM »
Yes they would have to walk along the wall (car park side) and then out through the car park and along the side of the apartment but imo I still see this as easier, quicker and safer than KM managing the twins and MM down the flight of concrete steps onto the road.  Remember MM tripped on the aircraft steps on her outbound flight.

its opinion and I dont think we can read alot into it
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #42 on: Today at 11:30:29 AM »
So you favour the paedophilia angle. Not much chance for an unharmed Madeleine in that case.

I'm sure any right thinking person would love a fairy tale ending ie some childless couple desperately wanting a child to call their own took MM and have cherished her ever since but realistically I think the chances are slim.  She's probably the most famous child in the world so would surely need to be kept hidden if this is what happened?
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Online Holly Goodhead

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #43 on: Today at 11:52:25 AM »
its opinion and I dont think we can read alot into it

Yes it is opinion and without having first-hand experience of the apartment its difficult to say.  I'm not saying there's anything sinister if GM was exiting via the front and the rest down the concrete steps. 
England Women's National Football Team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xyZlw6nFJ4

Sir David Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Offline kizzy

Re: Doors, windows and shutters
« Reply #44 on: Today at 11:54:15 AM »
Petermac from CMOMM has provided s video where he shows himself easily raising the outside.. Heriberto... A member here has also confirmed how easy it is.  It seems the shutters, were not security  shutters but merely to block out light

I have seen you quote this before - Petermac showing how easy the shutters came up. seems only IYO

AFAICR Petermac was demonstrating how the shutters would not stay up on there own - and the noise they make.

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/
POSTS ARE -  MY OWN OPINION