Author Topic: PJ Inspector Ana Saltão convicted of murder following Appeal Court decision.  (Read 5131 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Davel

I didn't say that you did... I said, "You have just concluded that on it's own this evidence is not proof of the existance". Notice that i said, this evidence alone is NOT proof of the existince in your opinion. Not that it is proof of non-existance.

And yes the lack of evidence does suggest either, they don't exist or they are good at covering their tracks.

Your view in the ghost example, is exactly the point i am making in the McCann example. But only the way you have just written it (i.e. suggests they do not exist, and not "is evidence they do not exist)

Victor Stenger
,
Contributor
Physicist, PhD, bestselling author
Absence of Evidence Is Evidence of Absence
08/14/2010 11:05 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017
Even the most pious believer has to admit that there is no scientific evidence for God or anything else supernatural. If there were, it would be in the textbooks along with the evidence for electricity, gravity, neutrinos, and DNA. This doesn’t bother most believers because they have heard many times that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

However, just repeating a statement over and over again does not make it true. I can think of many cases where absence of evidence provides robust evidence of absence. The key question is whether evidence should exist but does not. Elephants have never been seen roaming Yellowstone National Park. If they were, they would not have escaped notice. No matter how secretive, the presence of such huge animals would have been marked by ample physical signs — droppings, crushed vegetation, bones of dead elephants. So we can safely conclude from the absence of evidence that elephants are absent from the park.


www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-stenger/the-evidence-against-god_b_682169.html?guccounter=1
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:02:56 PM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Apologies my sentence should actually read the following:


I think the people that keep saying the McCanns have been cleared / aren't being investigated should remember that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I think though Davel, you are suggesting that the absence of evidence is circumstantial evidence, but not on its own proof of absence?

I disagree with this also, it contributes no evidence whatsoever in my view. For example, if someone is shot, but the bullet casing is removed, and the crime scene cleaned up, this absence of evidence isn't therefore evidence that they didn't get shot.
Prolly the great big hole in their body is evidence though innit Init?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Not be found guilty... Not sure about the law in Portugal, but certainly in the UK, you don't have to prove you are innocent. You are innocent UNTIL proven guilty.

In my opinion it is the same with the McCanns, like it or not they are innocent, until it is proven that they are guilty.

I think the people that keep saying the McCanns have been cleared / aren't being investigated should remember that absence of proof is not proof of absence.
I guess then that Murat is still in the frame by your logic.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19972
  • Total likes: 3138
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Who on earth else would want to shoot an 80 year old woman that many times?   Was she a Drug Baron?

But whatever else you do, don't leave your clothing lying around on a PJ Office floor.  It's covered in gun residue.  Who'd a thought it?

Oh,  and always hope for a friend who is a Magistrate.

I have to say that I sometimes wonder why Portugal bothers with a Court of the First Instance.  Unless you are an illiterate Peasant who doesn't know how to defend themselves, and often gets beaten into a confession, which is then illegally produced In Court.

I had hoped for an improvement in The Law in Portugal.  It has to happen one day.  But not just yet it seems.
Shooting someone 15 times makes it sound like the crime was personal.  What real different should it make if there was 14 entry wounds or at least 15?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline misty

https://expresso.pt/sociedade/2014-09-09-Por-que-motivo-foi-absolvida-a-inspetora-da-PJ-acusada-de-matar-a-avo-do-marido--1#gs.irSB8vZz

09.09.2014 at 20h38

GOOGLE TRANSLATION.

More than 80% of people facing trial are sentenced. Inspector Ana Saltão is one of the exceptions. Even if the court has not been convinced of his innocence.
Rui Gustavo
RUI GUSTAVO
As soon as they found the corpse of Filomena Gonçalves, the inspectors of the homicide brigade of the PJ of Coimbra classified the case as grade 4 - classification given when the suspect is an element of the PJ itself or a prominent public figure. That is, from the first moment that Inspector Ana Saltão is the only suspect to have killed with 14 shots the grandmother of the husband to be able to benefit from a possible inheritance or to not have to pay a loan of 1500 euros.

Ana Saltão was suspected because Filomena Gonçalves, who was 80 years old and some money used for the exploration and sale of a butcher's shop, was killed with 14 bullets compatible with those fired by the PJ's weapons. And 15 days before the homicide, the weapon of service of a colleague of Ana Saltão disappeared of the mobile where it was kept.

Thus, for the PJ, Ana Saltão, who was on sick leave because of an operation and taking antidepressants, stole her colleague's gun and killed her husband's grandmother. The court of Coimbra did not believe this thesis. At least totally.

 Psychopath, who?
The killer fired 14 shots. And the deconstruction of the prosecution begins with this fact: according to an expert heard in court, only a psychopath or someone with old problems to deal with the victim could shoot so many shots, already with the dead and prostrate victim on the ground.

For the court, it is obvious that Ana Saltão is not a psychopath because she passed PJ's psycho-technical tests and because she raised money for a colleague who had cancer, she soon worried about others. And since she only married in 2007 and the crime was in November 2012, she could not have old issues with a person she had only recently met and with whom she had a scarce relationship.

Kill for what?
Ana Saltão and her husband, also inspector of the PJ, lived with relative difficulty. The money was bad enough to pay all bills, had debts with credit cards and had to borrow money from the victim: 1500 euros they were paying every month. For the prosecution, Ana Saltão killed not only to not have to pay the debt but also to be able to benefit from an inheritance through the husband. It is not credible for the court to kill someone just for the sake of receiving money (the heirs of the victim were the children, not the grandchild) and the economic situation of the couple was not so serious as to justify such an extreme solution.

Proof contaminated
One of the strongest evidence of the accusation was a coat of Ana Saltão with traces of gunpowder. The garment was handed over to the colleagues on suspicion and was thrown to the floor of a PJ do Porto office, where it was stored before being subjected to analysis. In addition to criticizing this "inexplicable" procedure, the court finds that the coat may have been contaminated.

When it was stopped, Ana Saltão had a wound in the right hand, that used to shoot, and that, according to the PJ, has tried to hide. But the court also does not accept this clue as evidence. An expert said in court that the injury could result from a series of shots, but also from a burn, thus confirming the version of Ana Saltão, who said she had burned herself in the kitchen.

From Maia to Coimbra, two hours away
On the day of the homicide, Ana Salão was at home recovering from a relatively serious operation that prevented her from walking normally. She was spotted by a neighbor after two-thirty in the afternoon to see the mail. He was in his pajamas and his coat. Filomena was killed before five in the afternoon. The court did the math and concluded that between the victim's house in Coimbra and that of the suspect in Maia, it would be more than two hours by car and that it would be very difficult for the defendant to get dressed, to get in the car and cover the distance in such a short time. The neighbor's testimony was not sent by the PJ to the criminal investigation judge who ordered six months of preventive custody for Ana Saltão.

Stolen weapon?
The murder weapon was not found by the PJ, who deduced that it was the 9mm Glock that disappeared from the wardrobe of inspector Liliana Vasconcelos, colleague of Ana Saltão. The gun was in a locked drawer and the court came to the conclusion that, without a key, the furniture could only be opened if it were turned upside down and with a few strokes in the drawer. Something that a person alone could hardly do without help. Soon, the court could not convince herself that it was Ana Saltão who stole the weapon, or that it had actually been stolen and used to kill Filomena Gonçalves.

On the day of the crime, Ana Saltão hung up the phone and, according to the accusation, was not detected in Coimbra. "Would not it have been simpler to keep him at home and not answer the calls?"

With all doubts, it was not enough for the Court to find guilty, but it is also insufficient to declare it innocent. And, in doubt, he acquitted her. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline misty

Report of retrial in 2017.

POLICE CASES
REPEAT TRIAL OF PJ INSPECTOR
Some errors in the investigation were recognized in the new trial of Ana Saltão. A witness (the niece!) Will be heard for the first time, arrested for drug trafficking.
Hernâni Carvalho
JUNE 11, 2017


DR

Wednesday, May 31, is heard at the trial of Inspector Ana Saltão a witness never heard, neither in the previous investigation nor in the previous trial. It is a niece by affinity of the mortal victim. Graça was a telephone operator at the Coimbra Prison, where he earned about 600 euros per month. A thing that, in the words of a source close to the investigation, would not reach the expenses and dependencies ...

Traffic jam
It is said that Grace's relations with the victim would not be the best, despite being the niece of the victim's widower. Oddly enough, the widower himself never wanted to speak about her, not even his family. Hearing it, and knowing for example if he asked the victim for money and in what ways, is what the PJ inspector 's Defense intends to investigate, something that he had never done before. It is public knowledge that this niece, telephone operator, is arrested for drug trafficking and links to various networks, as reported in the "Jornal de Notícias" of April 14, 2014.

Mistakes in the chain of custody
Throughout this week's hearings, some statements by the head of the investigation came as a surprise. As for the clothes seized from Ana Saltão was treated in the police, Inspector Jose Cardoso told the court that, in fact, the clothes were directly placed on the floor and that this was a mistake and a procedure that escaped normalcy. He acknowledged that he had not put anything on the floor under his clothes and stated that no specialist was present at the time. He also told the court that he does not normally do such things. Regarding the result of the examination and contact with the laboratory, the same inspector admitted that the date was wrong. "I do not remember", "I can not need" were expressions used in some moments of tension with the defense. The pictures taken of the clothes lying on the floor of the brigade were to reveal other material on the floor like sacks, some dirt and even the toe tips of someone who will have taken the pictures. The chain of evidence custody will be compromised, or shaken ...

Confusion in monies and antennae
In the financial assessment made to the accounts of Ana Saltão and husband, nothing was recorded in the records regarding the money of the daughter of the couple. About five thousand euros. This information never came to the test. From reports of the location of antennas (Ana Salão's cell phone) there was also confusion found in the court. CBR: what for some meant off, for others, that is Coimbra.

Fax
The fact that a witness had assured PJ of having seen Ana Salgadoo at the probable hour of the victim's death at Externato Pimpolho, tens of kilometers away from the place and the time of the murder, was late for the judge to know. inspector in custody. "I do not remember" or "I do not know" were expressions used by the person in charge of the investigation. A fax with ten pages but only six were issued in good time.


Holes 14 ≠ 15 + 2 + 1
As for the number of shots entering the victim's body, a number was finally almost concordant ... Prof. Rosa Gouveia, author of the histopathological report, said that the victim has 15 orifices of firing. The prof. dr. Agostinho Santos, from INMLCF do Porto, a specialist in forensic tanatology and in firearms, appointed as technical consultant by the Public Prosecution Service, also confirmed to the court that 15 and the INMLCF Board of Governors, presided over by prof. dr. Corte Real, issued an opinion classifying hole number 3 as the entrance. We have, therefore, 15 entrance holes, assumed by three different and autonomous entities. The only specialist who claims to be 14 is Dr. Beatriz Santos, author of the first autopsy. This specialist took half a year to prepare the report (April 2013), but at the end of April, in two days, the expert knew how to clarify the PJ of Coimbra about unclassified holes, even without the corpse ... One of these holes was precisely No 3, rated 2/5/2013 as the exit orifice and now given as having been input.

New accounts
With this new count we have 15 entrance holes, two more shots on the windows and one on the balcony. It seems that the argument of the 14 ammunitions of the missing weapon in the PJ of Porto has fallen by land. That is, it may have been the same gun that fired the ammunition, with one or two shippers. Or even have been more than one shooter.

Death without robbery
According to the investigation, Filomena Gonçalves was found dead on November 21, 2012 around 10:00 p.m. The house was without signs of break-in on the doors and windows, without any interior scruff, the victim had his gold and in the kitchen were found other values. The absence of evidence of assault led the PJ to suspect someone close or even familiar to the victim. As it comes in the manuals.

keys
Of the various sets of keys, the neighbor of the front had one, the daughter of the victim had had a game that remains missing, the sister of the victim had another and the son of the victim another still. The keys were not in the door. That was what was said this week on trial. To SIC, also this week, a neighbor assured that part of the key was inside the lock that day ...

Unknown author
With the building under construction, the shots heard that day will have been confused by neighbors. No one knows who shot Filomena Gonçalves. But one realizes that whoever did it was able to enter and leave, leaving everything as it was. Less the life of the lady.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The translation is not the best but important issues regarding the gunpowder residue seem clear.
I have also read at another source the victim had lunch that day with her daughter Rosa + husband & they were the last known people to see her before the killer struck.
It's hard to understand any financial motive on Ana's part re. a loan of a couple of thousand Euros. Furthermore, as Ana's husband Carlos was not the immediate heir to his grandmother, killing for inherited finance seems improbable.

Offline Davel

https://expresso.pt/sociedade/2014-09-09-Por-que-motivo-foi-absolvida-a-inspetora-da-PJ-acusada-de-matar-a-avo-do-marido--1#gs.irSB8vZz

09.09.2014 at 20h38

GOOGLE TRANSLATION.

More than 80% of people facing trial are sentenced. Inspector Ana Saltão is one of the exceptions. Even if the court has not been convinced of his innocence.
Rui Gustavo
RUI GUSTAVO
As soon as they found the corpse of Filomena Gonçalves, the inspectors of the homicide brigade of the PJ of Coimbra classified the case as grade 4 - classification given when the suspect is an element of the PJ itself or a prominent public figure. That is, from the first moment that Inspector Ana Saltão is the only suspect to have killed with 14 shots the grandmother of the husband to be able to benefit from a possible inheritance or to not have to pay a loan of 1500 euros.

Ana Saltão was suspected because Filomena Gonçalves, who was 80 years old and some money used for the exploration and sale of a butcher's shop, was killed with 14 bullets compatible with those fired by the PJ's weapons. And 15 days before the homicide, the weapon of service of a colleague of Ana Saltão disappeared of the mobile where it was kept.

Thus, for the PJ, Ana Saltão, who was on sick leave because of an operation and taking antidepressants, stole her colleague's gun and killed her husband's grandmother. The court of Coimbra did not believe this thesis. At least totally.

 Psychopath, who?
The killer fired 14 shots. And the deconstruction of the prosecution begins with this fact: according to an expert heard in court, only a psychopath or someone with old problems to deal with the victim could shoot so many shots, already with the dead and prostrate victim on the ground.

For the court, it is obvious that Ana Saltão is not a psychopath because she passed PJ's psycho-technical tests and because she raised money for a colleague who had cancer, she soon worried about others. And since she only married in 2007 and the crime was in November 2012, she could not have old issues with a person she had only recently met and with whom she had a scarce relationship.

Kill for what?
Ana Saltão and her husband, also inspector of the PJ, lived with relative difficulty. The money was bad enough to pay all bills, had debts with credit cards and had to borrow money from the victim: 1500 euros they were paying every month. For the prosecution, Ana Saltão killed not only to not have to pay the debt but also to be able to benefit from an inheritance through the husband. It is not credible for the court to kill someone just for the sake of receiving money (the heirs of the victim were the children, not the grandchild) and the economic situation of the couple was not so serious as to justify such an extreme solution.

Proof contaminated
One of the strongest evidence of the accusation was a coat of Ana Saltão with traces of gunpowder. The garment was handed over to the colleagues on suspicion and was thrown to the floor of a PJ do Porto office, where it was stored before being subjected to analysis. In addition to criticizing this "inexplicable" procedure, the court finds that the coat may have been contaminated.

When it was stopped, Ana Saltão had a wound in the right hand, that used to shoot, and that, according to the PJ, has tried to hide. But the court also does not accept this clue as evidence. An expert said in court that the injury could result from a series of shots, but also from a burn, thus confirming the version of Ana Saltão, who said she had burned herself in the kitchen.

From Maia to Coimbra, two hours away
On the day of the homicide, Ana Salão was at home recovering from a relatively serious operation that prevented her from walking normally. She was spotted by a neighbor after two-thirty in the afternoon to see the mail. He was in his pajamas and his coat. Filomena was killed before five in the afternoon. The court did the math and concluded that between the victim's house in Coimbra and that of the suspect in Maia, it would be more than two hours by car and that it would be very difficult for the defendant to get dressed, to get in the car and cover the distance in such a short time. The neighbor's testimony was not sent by the PJ to the criminal investigation judge who ordered six months of preventive custody for Ana Saltão.

Stolen weapon?
The murder weapon was not found by the PJ, who deduced that it was the 9mm Glock that disappeared from the wardrobe of inspector Liliana Vasconcelos, colleague of Ana Saltão. The gun was in a locked drawer and the court came to the conclusion that, without a key, the furniture could only be opened if it were turned upside down and with a few strokes in the drawer. Something that a person alone could hardly do without help. Soon, the court could not convince herself that it was Ana Saltão who stole the weapon, or that it had actually been stolen and used to kill Filomena Gonçalves.

On the day of the crime, Ana Saltão hung up the phone and, according to the accusation, was not detected in Coimbra. "Would not it have been simpler to keep him at home and not answer the calls?"

With all doubts, it was not enough for the Court to find guilty, but it is also insufficient to declare it innocent. And, in doubt, he acquitted her. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like the court felt there eas an absence of evidence... LOL
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline misty

Sounds like the court felt there eas an absence of evidence... LOL

I guess that's what happens when someone tries to manipulate any evidence to fit an improbable thesis. Readiing between the lines (maybe wrongly) it does seem Ana was purposely targeted in a personal vendetta. IMO.