Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 313108 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4785 on: January 08, 2019, 10:29:01 AM »
I suppose it will be to do with rights of the individual  and not wishing to introduce unnecessary surveillance into their society.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4786 on: January 08, 2019, 10:30:54 AM »

We don't actually need CCTV in this village.  Everyone sees everything.  Due to the boring rural lives we all lead.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4787 on: January 08, 2019, 01:43:10 PM »
I suppose it will be to do with rights of the individual  and not wishing to introduce unnecessary surveillance into their society.

I was converted on viewing the CCTV coverage of the two older children leading James Bulger from the shopping precinct to the place where they murdered him.

Until that time few people would have credited two young boys with such a crime.

I think CCTV probably saved lots of investigative time and deployment of personnel looking for an adult perpetrator because who would have given immediate thought to children.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4788 on: January 08, 2019, 06:10:45 PM »
Haven't seen it yet, but the Guardian critic doesn't rate it - though not sure if that's the acting or the content
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/jan/07/brexit-the-uncivil-war-review-superficial-irresponsible-tv-cumberbatch

The Independent rates it higher -
 https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/brexit-uncivil-war-review-benedict-cumberbatch-hbo-channel-4-dominic-cummings-vote-leave-remain-a8700286.html
I don’t rate the Guardian, bunch of po-faced holier-than-thous.  The Times gave it four stars but best make your own mind up about it. 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4789 on: January 08, 2019, 08:54:41 PM »
We don't actually need CCTV in this village.  Everyone sees everything.  Due to the boring rural lives we all lead.


You are better out from the rat race (big city)Eleanor... It just aint pretty.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4790 on: January 08, 2019, 08:57:43 PM »
I was converted on viewing the CCTV coverage of the two older children leading James Bulger from the shopping precinct to the place where they murdered him.

Until that time few people would have credited two young boys with such a crime.

I think CCTV probably saved lots of investigative time and deployment of personnel looking for an adult perpetrator because who would have given immediate thought to children.


Oh I don't believe I am agreeing with you... but I do concur with those sentiments. I cried watching that cctv it just pierced my heart.

In Scotland all pubs must have CCTV cameras at the door , even if they have 'security'.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline John

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4791 on: January 09, 2019, 12:08:35 PM »
When you saw how the NOTW’s threat to publish information about the investigation before the suspect’s arrest could have skewed the whole investigation you can see what the PJ were up against with half the world’s media camped on their doorstep, looking for copy.

I found that particularly interesting given the demise of that Murdoch rag and some who worked at it. The Press have always had far too much power to influence events in this country with the current Brexit debacle being a current example.

The fact that the Met couldn't stop the News of the World from printing a story concerning a live murder enquiry is worrying.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 12:11:01 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4792 on: January 09, 2019, 01:08:41 PM »
It's about the tools, techniques, procedure and organisation used by 'Britain's finest", shortly before Madeleine disappeared.

It puts the capability of a large team of UK detectives into direct comparison with the PJ.

And @VS, it would be relevant whatever Sutton has done recently.

Then you could pluck any case out of the air and make comparison if ignoring like for like.  Why not the Hatton Garden heist? 

Perhaps it also illustrates the value of looking in before looking out and learning the lesson of past error.

In the five years after Madeleine's disappearance it was reported that the alert system introduced in 2009 had not once been activated ... I think that really is groundhog day.

30 Children Have Gone Missing In Portugal Since Madeleine McCann Disappeared
Keith KendrickParentdish UK
Madeleine McCann's disappearance was not a rare and unique abduction, according to official figures which revealed that THIRTY children went missing in Portugal in the last five years.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4793 on: January 09, 2019, 01:50:39 PM »
Then you could pluck any case out of the air and make comparison if ignoring like for like.  Why not the Hatton Garden heist? 

Perhaps it also illustrates the value of looking in before looking out and learning the lesson of past error.

In the five years after Madeleine's disappearance it was reported that the alert system introduced in 2009 had not once been activated ... I think that really is groundhog day.

30 Children Have Gone Missing In Portugal Since Madeleine McCann Disappeared
Keith KendrickParentdish UK
Madeleine McCann's disappearance was not a rare and unique abduction, according to official figures which revealed that THIRTY children went missing in Portugal in the last five years.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html

According to which 'official figures'?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4794 on: January 09, 2019, 02:56:33 PM »
Then you could pluck any case out of the air and make comparison if ignoring like for like.  Why not the Hatton Garden heist? 

Perhaps it also illustrates the value of looking in before looking out and learning the lesson of past error.

In the five years after Madeleine's disappearance it was reported that the alert system introduced in 2009 had not once been activated ... I think that really is groundhog day.

30 Children Have Gone Missing In Portugal Since Madeleine McCann Disappeared
Keith KendrickParentdish UK
Madeleine McCann's disappearance was not a rare and unique abduction, according to official figures which revealed that THIRTY children went missing in Portugal in the last five years.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html

So no details of those children. Were the missing children abducted ? Where they runaways ? Were they parental abductions. Facts please Brietta.......facts !
“Without delving into the details of the case, Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively."

Offline jassi

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4795 on: January 09, 2019, 03:00:51 PM »
So no details of those children. Were the missing children abducted ? Where they runaways ? Were they parental abductions. Facts please Brietta.......facts !

It also said youngsters up to the age of 18, so some not really children.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4796 on: January 09, 2019, 03:27:18 PM »
So no details of those children. Were the missing children abducted ? Where they runaways ? Were they parental abductions. Facts please Brietta.......facts !

The newspaper reports weren't specific and there was quite a bit of work being done circa 2012 in the EU concerning missing and exploited children in member states.
However my money would be from Portuguese initiatives on the subject current in the 2012 news such as those reported in the Portugal Resident below.

Posted by PORTUGALDAILYNEWS on May 01, 2012
Justice Minister defends creation of national sex offender
By INÊS LOPES ines.lopes@algarveresident.comChild sexual exploitation debates mark International Missing Children’s Day in PortugalPolice authorities have investigated nearly 900 cases of missing children since January, representing an average of six children disappearing in Portugal each day.According to data revealed by the Instituto de Apoio à Criança (IAC) during a conference to mark International Missing Children’s Day on May 25, the vast majority of these cases (869) have had a happy ending with the children found and returned to their families. However, the authorities are yet to locate 23 minors.The IAC reported that last year the number of missing children was “alarmingly high” – a total of 2,842 children were reported missing and of these 27 are yet to be found.Aurora Dantier, sub commissioner from the Lisbon PSP police, said more and more cases of missing children and child sexual abuse result from perpetrators inducing or coercing minors via the internet, a phenomenon that requires urgent attention and harsh penalties.During the conference, held at the Assembleia da República (Parliament) under the theme ‘Missing Children and Child Sexual Exploitation’, Justice Minister Paula Teixeira da Cruz defended the electronic monitoring of convicted sex offenders and paedophiles as well as the creation of a national sex offender registry.The minister also spoke about the new European Union Directive, passed in December, which introduces EU-wide requirements on prevention, prosecution of offenders and protection of child victims, including harsher penalties for sex offenders and new types of criminal offences.Member States, which have two years to implement the new rules into their national laws, will also be entitled to take other measures, such as listing convicted persons in sex offender registers, similar to those included in Megan’s Law (www.meganslaw.ca.gov), which aims to provide the public with internet access to detailed information on registered sex offenders.As part of the new directive, Member States will also have to ensure the prompt removal of web pages containing or disseminating child pornography hosted in their territory while coercing a child into sexual actions or forcing a child into prostitution will be punishable by a minimum of 10 years in prison. Child pornography producers will face at least three years incarceration, and viewers of child pornography on the web at least one year.Dulce Rocha, vice president of the IAC, also believes periodical risk assessments of sex offenders should be undertaken to calculate the likelihood of re-offending, which in most cases is “very high”.Child trafficking Sadly, the vice president of the Portuguese Association of Missing Children said last Friday that the trafficking and exploitation of children was “cheaper, more profitable and safer than drugs and arms trafficking”.During another conference to debate the problem of missing children in Portugal, held in Matosinhos last Friday, Margarida Durão Barroso said the number of child trafficking and exploitation cases was rising because “international mafias” were investing more into this type of crime as they know “police authorities are more inclined to investigate cases of drug and weapon trafficking”.She said: “The International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children and Missing Children Europe (the European Federation for Missing and Sexually Exploited Children) need to work together to tackle the problem.”Also attending the conference, Derek Foster, a retired British police forensic chief who is responsible for the international investigation of missing people, said each country needed to find their own solution to deal with the problem, which will always be “multi-institutional”, and that each case needed to be investigated thoroughly even if the missing person is believed to have disappeared of their own accord, the situation with most teenagers. “There is always an element of risk,” he said.Eu hotlineThe European Commission hotline for missing children - 116 000 - available in 16 countries in Europe, reported more than 3,000 cases of missing children in 2011.Missing Children Europe, which incorporates 28 non-governmental organisations in 19 EU Member States, including Portugal through the Instituto de Apoio à Criança, marked International Missing Children’s Day last week with a campaign to bring attention to the problem and debates about the new EU directive to combat sexual abuse and exploitation of children and child pornography.The hotline for missing children is a free number operating 24 hours a day. Calls are answered by specialists working with the NGOs of each country.A list of reported missing people in Portugal can be found on the Polícia Judiciária website - go to www.policiajudiciaria.pt and click under ‘Pessoas Desaparecidas’ on the left-hand side of the homepage.
1">news
http://portugalresident.com/justice-minister-defends-creation-of-national-sex-offender
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4797 on: January 09, 2019, 05:59:18 PM »
There's about 6 on the PJ site now, including MBM, so the other 24 must have been resolved.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4798 on: January 09, 2019, 07:06:03 PM »
There's about 6 on the PJ site now, including MBM, so the other 24 must have been resolved.
According to their missing persons page there are only 33 missing people (including children) in the whole country.  Astounding really. 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Brietta

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #4799 on: January 09, 2019, 08:16:02 PM »
There's about 6 on the PJ site now, including MBM, so the other 24 must have been resolved.

I do not know how the information is collated in Portugal but the Judicial Police were being kept busy in 2013 as well as 2012 if reports and the Justice Minister are anything to go by.

Police investigating 64 missing children's cases
BY TPN/LUSA, IN NEWS · 25-05-2013 14:57:00 · 1 COMMENTS
The Portuguese justice minister has revealed police were currently investigating the cases of 64 missing children, 31 of which occurred this year.

Minister Paula Teixeira da Cruz said at the end of a conference on “Missing Children and Sexual Exploitation”, that over 4,000 children were reported missing every year, though the numbers were dropping slowly.

Most children aged under nine who were reported missing were cases of being taken by their mother or father without the spouse's consent and most of these cases occurred in August, during the summer holidays.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/police-investigating-64-missing-childrens-cases/28502
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"