Author Topic: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?  (Read 20514 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #300 on: December 12, 2018, 09:50:09 PM »
Will May be defeated? Will Boris have his day and drag the UK kicking and screaming out of the EU? Or will Corbyn and Sturgeon join forces and bring the Tory Government down? Interesting times.

"Interesting" unless you're stuck in the middle of it, not knowing from one day to the next WTF is going on.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #301 on: December 13, 2018, 04:08:45 PM »
"Interesting" unless you're stuck in the middle of it, not knowing from one day to the next WTF is going on.

About a year ago we passed an act of parliament that says we shall keep EU laws.
If we want to trade with a member of the EU then any product has to comply with EU standards and be CE marked.
Our standards have been harmonised with EU standards for 20 years or more.
Our borders are open to all citizens of former commonwealth countries.

So come April 1st 2019 an English company is awarded a contract by a German company to build a pressure vessel for use in Lithuania. Cutting to the chase the onus is on the German company not to import a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.The onus is on the Lithuanians not to put into service a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.
"Comply or it don't 'appen squire". So much for being free of the European yoke!!! This obtains whatever the result of the present hokeycokey.
The present mess was predictable from the moment the courts upheld that parliament not the government had to agree,by vote, to the result of negotiations with the EU.
 *%87
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey

Online G-Unit

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #302 on: December 13, 2018, 05:30:48 PM »
About a year ago we passed an act of parliament that says we shall keep EU laws.
If we want to trade with a member of the EU then any product has to comply with EU standards and be CE marked.
Our standards have been harmonised with EU standards for 20 years or more.
Our borders are open to all citizens of former commonwealth countries.

So come April 1st 2019 an English company is awarded a contract by a German company to build a pressure vessel for use in Lithuania. Cutting to the chase the onus is on the German company not to import a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.The onus is on the Lithuanians not to put into service a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.
"Comply or it don't 'appen squire". So much for being free of the European yoke!!! This obtains whatever the result of the present hokeycokey.
The present mess was predictable from the moment the courts upheld that parliament not the government had to agree,by vote, to the result of negotiations with the EU.
 *%87

The precedent was set when Britain entered the EEC and again when it entered the EU. Parliament approved those decisions and the terms, so could hardly be excluded from the process of leaving.
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #303 on: December 13, 2018, 08:12:46 PM »
The precedent was set when Britain entered the EEC and again when it entered the EU. Parliament approved those decisions and the terms, so could hardly be excluded from the process of leaving.

The difficulty being who makes the first move and how?
Take it as Green Leader and Green Gang and Blue Leader and Blue Gang.
Green Leader agrees a deal with Blue Leader and Blue Gang. Green Gang say we don't like that chief we will not vote for it. Or the other way round if you like. It has the potential to go on for ever with someone looking a charlie because their negotiators do not have the authority to agree anything and have to keep referring back. Worse than that they don't seem much inclined to solve the problem, rather score political points.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey

Online G-Unit

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #304 on: December 14, 2018, 07:07:46 AM »
The difficulty being who makes the first move and how?
Take it as Green Leader and Green Gang and Blue Leader and Blue Gang.
Green Leader agrees a deal with Blue Leader and Blue Gang. Green Gang say we don't like that chief we will not vote for it. Or the other way round if you like. It has the potential to go on for ever with someone looking a charlie because their negotiators do not have the authority to agree anything and have to keep referring back. Worse than that they don't seem much inclined to solve the problem, rather score political points.

They all seem to be entrenched in their own positions and have no desire to be flexible. Richard Branson has just had his say on TV and says leaving without a deal would be catastrophic. He says the pound would collapse and businesses such as his would suffer because people wouldn't be able to afford to use his airline. No self-interest there then. He also said we were the most prosperous country in the EU before the referendum, but he's wrong about that. Germany's GDP has been greater than ours every year.

Who can we believe? Everyone has an axe to grind imo.
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Offline Sunny

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #305 on: December 14, 2018, 07:23:27 AM »
They all seem to be entrenched in their own positions and have no desire to be flexible. Richard Branson has just had his say on TV and says leaving without a deal would be catastrophic. He says the pound would collapse and businesses such as his would suffer because people wouldn't be able to afford to use his airline. No self-interest there then. He also said we were the most prosperous country in the EU before the referendum, but he's wrong about that. Germany's GDP has been greater than ours every year.

Who can we believe? Everyone has an axe to grind imo.

The are all in it for themselves. Whatever colour the logo and whatever side of the bench they sit.

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Online G-Unit

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #306 on: December 14, 2018, 08:51:26 AM »
The are all in it for themselves. Whatever colour the logo and whatever side of the bench they sit.

They have lost the trust of the people and it's all their own faults. It's them who have lied, twisted and turned all through this process. Cameron didn't do much of note, but he has got his place in history for causing this mess.
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Offline Carana

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #307 on: December 14, 2018, 04:01:02 PM »
About a year ago we passed an act of parliament that says we shall keep EU laws.
If we want to trade with a member of the EU then any product has to comply with EU standards and be CE marked.
Our standards have been harmonised with EU standards for 20 years or more.
Our borders are open to all citizens of former commonwealth countries.

So come April 1st 2019 an English company is awarded a contract by a German company to build a pressure vessel for use in Lithuania. Cutting to the chase the onus is on the German company not to import a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.The onus is on the Lithuanians not to put into service a vessel that does not comply with Pressure Equipment Directive 97/23/EC.
"Comply or it don't 'appen squire". So much for being free of the European yoke!!! This obtains whatever the result of the present hokeycokey.
The present mess was predictable from the moment the courts upheld that parliament not the government had to agree,by vote, to the result of negotiations with the EU.
 *%87

I agree with most of that, except for "The present mess was predictable from the moment the courts upheld that parliament not the government had to agree,by vote, to the result of negotiations with the EU."

TBH, I find that May really has tried to navigate through the chaos towards some kind of half-way house, but has made several huge mistakes along the way  - the first of which was precipitating A50.

My observation is that there are so many factions within the government (currently Tory as we know), ranging from centrist to lala land.

However, I'm not at all convinced that a Labour government wouldn't have been just as divided.

No one seems to be adressing the underlying issues that caused people to vote for Brexit, many of which appear to be the fault of successive UK governments, of whichever flavour. At the same time, I don't know anyone who thinks the EU  is perfect, but wouldn't it be better to continue to have seats at the table (72 MEPs), as opposed to none?

At least until some bright spark eventually finds how leaving could actually be beneficial to the UK?



Offline Carana

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #308 on: December 14, 2018, 04:13:50 PM »
They all seem to be entrenched in their own positions and have no desire to be flexible. Richard Branson has just had his say on TV and says leaving without a deal would be catastrophic. He says the pound would collapse and businesses such as his would suffer because people wouldn't be able to afford to use his airline. No self-interest there then. He also said we were the most prosperous country in the EU before the referendum, but he's wrong about that. Germany's GDP has been greater than ours every year.

Who can we believe? Everyone has an axe to grind imo.

Businesses relying on international trade / movement are obviously pleading for their corner.

But which UK-based businesses would benefit? Not even a UK B&B, IMO.

Offline Carana

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #309 on: December 14, 2018, 04:19:54 PM »
The difficulty being who makes the first move and how?
Take it as Green Leader and Green Gang and Blue Leader and Blue Gang.
Green Leader agrees a deal with Blue Leader and Blue Gang. Green Gang say we don't like that chief we will not vote for it. Or the other way round if you like. It has the potential to go on for ever with someone looking a charlie because their negotiators do not have the authority to agree anything and have to keep referring back. Worse than that they don't seem much inclined to solve the problem, rather score political points.


It really does need a bi-partisan approach.

If an entity wished to create total chaos, how bettter to do this than to create division across all parties?

Online G-Unit

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #310 on: December 14, 2018, 10:20:22 PM »
Businesses relying on international trade / movement are obviously pleading for their corner.

But which UK-based businesses would benefit? Not even a UK B&B, IMO.

The B & B's might do well if the airlines collapsed or no one could afford holidays overseas anyway.
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #311 on: December 15, 2018, 12:21:47 AM »
Businesses relying on international trade / movement are obviously pleading for their corner.

But which UK-based businesses would benefit? Not even a UK B&B, IMO.

If we go " No Deal we are out of here" other countries outside the EU will benefit by being able to offload substandard gear on to us. Some of our larger more reputable stores are already trying it on.

UK suffers from complacency. Middle East sixty years ago the four track of choice was a LandRover we were the incumbent as it were. By 1990 it was all bloody Toyotas. That takes some doing. Ditto the Austin Maxi.Since the Maxi every family car [except BMW who think the world is out of step with them]is five door five speed front wheel drive and transverse engine. How many UK companies make cars?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". .Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Re: Who will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and by default, the PM?
« Reply #312 on: December 15, 2018, 02:08:28 AM »
If we go " No Deal we are out of here" other countries outside the EU will benefit by being able to offload substandard gear on to us. Some of our larger more reputable stores are already trying it on.

UK suffers from complacency. Middle East sixty years ago the four track of choice was a LandRover we were the incumbent as it were. By 1990 it was all bloody Toyotas. That takes some doing. Ditto the Austin Maxi.Since the Maxi every family car [except BMW who think the world is out of step with them]is five door five speed front wheel drive and transverse engine. How many UK companies make cars?

Not many are British-owned any more, although quite a few are made / assembled in the UK. No idea what will happen to all those jobs.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/102606/eu-warnings-put-post-brexit-uk-car-manufacturing-at-risk

Online G-Unit

How did they manage to persuade May to go? My guess is they have had advance warning of the results of the EU elections. Has Farage got the Tories on the run again? I think maybe he has.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

How did they manage to persuade May to go? My guess is they have had advance warning of the results of the EU elections. Has Farage got the Tories on the run again? I think maybe he has.
I doubt the. Tories have any greater i side knowledge about thr results of the EU than us or the media, and even the most ill informed could probably have hazarded a guess that the Brexit Party will far outperform the Tories at this election.
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