What do you think happened to Madeleine?

[Redblossom]

What is odd here is that for some people it is a total anathema, akin to a moral crime being  committed that anyone could even begin to  suspect that either parent could have been responsible, IMO that is nothing less than cultish or personal delusion for some reason

In their minds and world all police would be guilty of this awful crime

And historical reality has proved exactly the opposite in many cases.

To others it is a moral crime to ask questions. Sad and ridiculous state of affairs overall.

Well said Red .... why McCann fans take any questioning as a personal affront is quite beyond me!

Me too, and its also as a personal affront to two former suspects, couldnt make it up really

[Redblossom]

Redblossom, perhaps you could explain what you meant by this (rather strange) sentence then?

In their minds and world all police would be guilty of this awful crime

It was to that which I was responding, but granted I may have misunderstood your meaning.

The simple point is that it seems to be an anathema to suspect or voice this, and if you do you are x y z, that is all and you know it.

It IS anathema to accuse, to libel, to post crude photoshopped photos, to pore over pictures of Madeleine and make outrageous assumptions about the poor child, to imagine that you know better than the police about what happened, to think you are contributing to the solving of this case by recruiting a raggle-taggle army of "sceptics" on facebook - all of these things and more are anathema to me, sure. 

You claimed that for "some people" that if the police suspect the parents that we would view that as anathema too but you're wrong - provided the police are not taking part in the above activities we see so often on the net then they are just doing their job - if they have evidence that the parents are guilty of some crime then I am quite happy for them to gather it all up and present it to the Public Prosecutor.  I don't think it's very likely that this is happening mind you.

Still avoiding the issue and turning it elsewhere

the ISSUE here IS that people who do not believe the family and ask questions are villified, yes, no? Miles before they do any  bitchng and all the rest of the stuff you post about, I repeat it is NOT a crime of any sort to not believe people involved in any case, to think so, to have an opinion, and to say so.....its anametha that it should be

[AnneGuedes]

It IS anathema to accuse, to libel, to post crude photoshopped photos, to pore over pictures of Madeleine and make outrageous assumptions about the poor child, to imagine that you know better than the police about what happened, to think you are contributing to the solving of this case by recruiting a raggle-taggle army of "sceptics" on facebook - all of these things and more are anathema to me, sure. 

Excuse-me, Martha, but your words sound like anathema.
PS : I never saw crude photoshopped pictures of Madeleine, fortunately, I wonder which sites you frequent.

[Redblossom]

If you say so Redblossom.   

Did you do know that I have spent the last 6 years being vilified as a "McCann apologist" and "child neglect supporter" and worse?  Do you hear me bleating about it?

no and thats sad but has nothing to do with the main issue i was on about, ie the right to not have thought police,end of, see you later, hogging the board

[AnneGuedes]

 "to post crude photoshopped photos"
What's that, Martha ?

[Redblossom]

If you say so Redblossom.   

Did you do know that I have spent the last 6 years being vilified as a "McCann apologist" and "child neglect supporter" and worse?  Do you hear me bleating about it?

no and thats sad but has nothing to do with the main issue i was on about, ie the right to not have thought police,end of, see you later, hogging the board

Who's hogging the board? 

You seem to be complaining about McCann supporters' right to criticise the behaviour of McCann "sceptics" whilst wishing to preserve your own right to carry on "doubting" the McCanns - you can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

ME, I seemed to be hogging it! and I was not complaining anyones rights to criticise various behaviours, how those behaviours have anything to do with anyones right to not believe the Mccanns is beyond me, in effect you are saying you cant doubt the Mccanns cos x y z person has said something awful about them get a grip Martha, I have every right always to doubt them, its called freedom of thought!!! and not something you or anyone can encroach into in anywayshape or form

now, seeing as I still seem to be overposting and HOGGING the board I shall see you later

[AnneGuedes]

"to post crude photoshopped photos"
What's that, Martha ?

Whic bit don't you understand Anne?

What are those "crude photoshopped photos" ? Martha, I had not idea of this, but now I have to know. Will you believe that it's authentic ? I respect you as a supporter, I'd be sorry it the McCanns were on their own. I only wish you let people doubt. Doubting is reflecting, not accusing. Let's forget this last one for the sake of meditation !

[AnneGuedes]

"to post crude photoshopped photos"
What's that, Martha ?

Whic bit don't you understand Anne?

What are those "crude photoshopped photos" ? Martha, I had not idea of this, but now I have to know. Will you believe that it's authentic ? I respect you as a supporter, I'd be sorry it the McCanns were on their own. I only wish you let people doubt. Doubting is reflecting, not accusing. Let's forget this last one for the sake of meditation !

Google images of Kate McCann.  The 8th picture is a crude photoshopped image.  Hope this helps you, though god knows how it helps Madeleine.

Help me ? I'm certainly not going to search. Beurk !

[AnneGuedes]

You did ask.

Yes I did. Thanks for the information, but... I believe you and that's enough for me !

[Tim Invictus]

Redblossom, perhaps you could explain what you meant by this (rather strange) sentence then?

In their minds and world all police would be guilty of this awful crime

It was to that which I was responding, but granted I may have misunderstood your meaning.

The simple point is that it seems to be an anathema to suspect or voice this, and if you do you are x y z, that is all and you know it.

It IS anathema to accuse, to libel, to post crude photoshopped photos, to pore over pictures of Madeleine and make outrageous assumptions about the poor child, to imagine that you know better than the police about what happened, to think you are contributing to the solving of this case by recruiting a raggle-taggle army of "sceptics" on facebook - all of these things and more are anathema to me, sure. 

You claimed that for "some people" that if the police suspect the parents that we would view that as anathema too but you're wrong - provided the police are not taking part in the above activities we see so often on the net then they are just doing their job - if they have evidence that the parents are guilty of some crime then I am quite happy for them to gather it all up and present it to the Public Prosecutor.  I don't think it's very likely that this is happening mind you.

Try not to tar everyone with the same brush Martha. I have no idea what the photos of Madeliene are you refer to and don't want to know. I don't use facebook and I am not a member of a ' raggle~taggle army' of sceptics; I am just a sceptic with every right to express my opinion!

The other distasteful implication in a number of your posts is that you have a monopoly in caring about the fate of the 'poor child' and anyone who doubts the McCann's story has an unhealthy interest in Madeliene! Your "pore over pictures" comment above is a perfect example.

You appear somewhat hostile and obsessive at times and it doesn't make for healthy debate!

[Tim Invictus]

Why the personal attack on me Tim?  What makes you think I was tarring you specifically with any brush?  I did not attack you and have always been courteous towards you.

 Frankly, I don't think you really have any idea how extreme the campaign directed at Madeleine's parents has been over the last 6 years.  I also think you are mistaking my posts for someone else's as I rarely (if ever) make posts claiming that I care for Madeleine more than others.  The simple fact of the matter is that there are pictures of Madeleine that have been obsessively pored over for years, for example the last photo taken of her has had literally thousand upon thousands of posts from genuine obsessives who discuss how the photo has been faked.  There are other pictures discussed ad nauseam which allegedly show how unhappy Madeleine was or how sexualised she was - pictures as innocent as Madeleine eating an ice cream or holding a sonic screwdriver have been slavered over by people with very strange ideas indeed. This is the sort of behaviour to which I am referring.  I am not claiming that ALL "sceptics" indulge in this bizarre hobby but believe me, many do.

Tim I find your personal remarks quite uncalled for and I would like an apology please.

It was not a personal attack on you Martha. I do apologise if it came across that way.

Please reread your post I referred to; nowhere do you say these distasteful activities and quite frankly unhealthy interest in Madeliene and photos of her are things you have witnessed from from certain people on other forums, facebook, etc. From your post I took it that you believe this is typical behaviour of McCann sceptics and as such a sceptic I found that insulting.

I am sure there are deviant minds on both sides of the debate. We need to becareful not to associate all the people who hold a certain opinion with a few sickos who just happen to hold that same overall view.

I hope my point is clear. For the record; sickos you refer to would never be allowed to post on this forum and if I had seen what you describe I would be as appalled as you. Sorry there has been a misunderstanding.

[devils advocate]

The Maddie McCann case is one which provokes strong emotions in both camps and sometimes posters tend to get a bit over zealous.   I notice that this usually happens later in the evening when the rum and wines are flowing so I tend to avoid combative debates at those times.  It is my belief that the vast majority of people do sincerely wish Maddie well and do hope for a reunion for her and her parents at sometime down the line because the alternative is all too terrible to contemplate.  Speech over   

[Tim Invictus]

How very DARE you?!  Not a drop of alcohol has passed these lips for many a month! 

He probably thought you're on the sauce because you're 'Senior Member' here and yet also a 'newbie'. Somewhat befuddled that!

 8-)(--)

[debunker]

How very DARE you?!  Not a drop of alcohol has passed these lips for many a month! 

He probably thought you're on the sauce because you're 'Senior Member' here and yet also a 'newbie'. Somewhat befuddled that!

 8-)(--)

Well I seem to be a newbie and a hero member!