Jeremy Bamber - The changing story as to where the rifle was left.

[Myster]

Just one point so far, scipio...

When first interviewed by police on the 8th. Sept. '85, JB stated that after his supposed rabbit shoot he left the rifle propped against the settle in the rear hall with the magazine removed and resting on it, presumably on the seat cushion (9 in the WHF floor plans).

So it seems it wasn't placed on the kitchen table, as was mistakenly shown in the latest TV documentaries.

Wherever he said it was left it in open view just adds to his deceptive remark that Sheila must have "seen it as a sign" to conveniently pick up and use against her family.

[scipio_usmc]

Just one point so far, scipio...

When first interviewed by police on the 8th. Sept. '85, JB stated that after his supposed rabbit shoot he left the rifle propped against the settle in the rear hall with the magazine removed and resting on it, presumably on the seat cushion (9 in the WHF floor plans).

So it seems it wasn't placed on the kitchen table, as was mistakenly shown in the latest TV documentaries.

Wherever he said it was left it in open view just adds to his deceptive remark that Sheila must have "seen it as a sign" to conveniently pick up and use against her family.

Oh I read he claimed the gun and bullets were left on the kitchen table. In any event he did indeed say it was left out so it could be claimed she came across it and used it, as opposed to her seeking it out and using it because no one would buy that she went searching for it. But it also provided a reason why his prints were on the gun and bullets.  It was an explanation that alleviated him having to clean the gun and bullets extra carefully. Plus note that he said he left out a box of bullets.  How much time would it take if she fired 10 rounds then had to go look for more ammo?  He had to come up with an excuse to help her reload faster.  His statements were all calculated.   

[John]

Nevill would have put the rifle and magazine away safely.  He would not have allowed such temptation to be laid before two 6-year-old boys for obvious reasons.  Jeremy's story is a load of bo....ks.

[scipio_usmc]

Ok this is from a 2002 appellate decision.  [2002] EWCA Crim 2912 Case No: 20011745 S1
This is where I got the part about the gun being left on the kitchen table I knew I read it somewhere:

"Having walked to the house from the lane there was further conversation. The appellant told the police that Sheila Caffell could use a gun. He said they had gone target shooting together and she had used all the guns in the house before. In the light of what they were told the uniformed officers requested armed assistance before any attempt to search the house was made. The appellant dictated a list of the firearms kept at the house. He told the police that he had loaded the .22 automatic rifle the previous night because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He said he had left the gun on the kitchen table with a full magazine and a box of ammunition nearby. Those who saw the appellant at the scene at that time described him as remarkably calm. At some stage during their conversations that morning PC Myall and the appellant spoke about motor cars. The appellant said that the Osea Road Caravan Site company, "would be able to stand him a Porsche" car at some point during the year."

[Myster]

Ok this is from a 2002 appellate decision.  [2002] EWCA Crim 2912 Case No: 20011745 S1
This is where I got the part about the gun being left on the kitchen table I knew I read it somewhere:

"Having walked to the house from the lane there was further conversation. The appellant told the police that Sheila Caffell could use a gun. He said they had gone target shooting together and she had used all the guns in the house before. In the light of what they were told the uniformed officers requested armed assistance before any attempt to search the house was made. The appellant dictated a list of the firearms kept at the house. He told the police that he had loaded the .22 automatic rifle the previous night because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He said he had left the gun on the kitchen table with a full magazine and a box of ammunition nearby. Those who saw the appellant at the scene at that time described him as remarkably calm. At some stage during their conversations that morning PC Myall and the appellant spoke about motor cars. The appellant said that the Osea Road Caravan Site company, "would be able to stand him a Porsche" car at some point during the year."

Aaah, I see now... looking at the kitchen crime scene photo, the table was set for the following morning's breakfast so as you noted earlier if the rifle was left on the table it would have been removed by June or Nevill.  If JB did later change his story... big mistake, he should have stuck to the more believable 'settle' one.

Could also have been a misinterpretation by the author(s) of that 2002 decision document of what JB actually said .

He told David Boutflour shortly after the murders that he left the magazine in the rifle, whereas in a later police interview that he removed it.

Same with fictional shooting rabbits tale... imo just gave him the opportunity to test fire the rifle, fill the magazine and make sure that it was working OK for his plan later that night, then told the police he left it out to give the impression that Sheila had easy access to it.

"oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

[scipio_usmc]

Aaah, I see now... looking at the kitchen crime scene photo, the table was set for the following morning's breakfast so as you noted earlier if the rifle was left on the table it would have been removed by June or Nevill.  If JB did later change his story... big mistake, he should have stuck to the more believable 'settle' one.

Could also have been a misinterpretation by the author(s) of that 2002 decision document of what JB actually said .

He told David Boutflour shortly after the murders that he left the magazine in the rifle, whereas in a later police interview that he removed it.

Same with fictional shooting rabbits tale... imo just gave him the opportunity to test fire the rifle, fill the magazine and make sure that it was working OK for his plan later that night, then told the police he left it out to give the impression that Sheila had easy access to it.

"oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

I am very fond of firearms but I would not set my kitchen table around one.  Nor would I leave a gun out with 6 year olds running around especially leave bullets and a loaded magazine near it.  Nor would a wife be happy with a gun sitting on her kitchen table.  The testmony was that Nevill was careful with guns in light of his gransons being there.  So it seems unimaginable that not only would Jeremy be too lazy to put it away but his father and mother would have left the gun and bullets as well especially after setting the table. Honestly no matter where Jeremy claims ot have left it I can't imagine them not putting it away themselves knowing the boys would touch it.

It is quite possible that Jeremy didn't take the gun out until after he entered late at night to kill them. His account about taking the gun out could simply be a fairytale. The reason why to make up this fairytale is to:

1) provide an innocent explanation as to why his prints would be on the gun and casings

2) provide a false claim that Sheila had easy access because no one would believe she would go and seek out the gun herself and if she did after firing 10 shots she would be in trouble because she would have to go look for the right bullets and during the big gap in time Nevill could disarm her, escape or call police.

3) so he could say the gun didn't have a scope or moderator attached so police would not seek the attachments out.