Author Topic: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.  (Read 14229 times)

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Offline Albertini

Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2013, 09:37:52 AM »
Discussing strategy seems to imply no definite decisions had been made. and even if it had that was no-one's business but the McCanns until they chose to make it public.

Well in that case a simple "no comment" is the truthful answer he could have offered, not a reply which is a deliberate and calculated lie.

And there is a bigger issue here. I have provided clear and unequivocal evidence of their lying, and when you watch the clips they do it well. If they can lie so well and so convincingly in this fashion about this, then it stands to reason they can lie as well regarding other matters.

It means we cannot take anything they say at face value and simply accept it as fact. Once someone has been caught out lying their credibility is shot.

So what else are they lying about?

Your assumption that I 'love' the McCanns is wrong.   I do not know them, have never met them or spoken to them and so have no way of knowing whether I would even like them if I did meet them.

Well i am sorry but your posts are full of praise for them in everything they do. I just commented on the fact that it seems with most supporters every action and decision the McCann's have taken is right and justified on the basis that the parents are innocent. It's all so very black and white, whereas in fact there are shades of grey. You can support them and believe their innocence whilst criticizing some of their actions.


I do not agree with their decision to leave their children, in fact I would go further as I don't agree with subjecting  children so young to arduous plane journeys abroad - when they don't know the difference between Blackpool and Bermuda.  However, I do understand how they came to the decision which they did regarding childminding.      And I do not expect anyone to be perfect parents or perfect human beings.

Well you cannot excuse that can you, and you missed the most important part of that out. Not just the fact they left them, but that they left the children (according to them) in an unlocked apartment. No right minded person on either side of the case can or should ever excuse that.

What I am passionate about is justice and fairness, and I hate lynchmob mentality and spite filled witchhunts against anyone - especially the devastated parents of a missing child.

What about the spite filled witch hunt against Amaral and his team? You seem to be ok with that, to such a degree that you support the convicted child killer Cipriano simply because it is a stick with which to beat Amaral with.

You can't say on the one hand the PT justice system is right because it convicted Amaral and then wrong because it convicted Cipriano. Like most supporters you believe the PT justice system is a good thing when it makes decisions which justify your McCann's good, Amaral bad mindset. In just the same way that if the McCann's win the libel case you will be full of praise for PT's justice system and full of criticism if Amaral wins. It's an extension of this black and white mindset. 

I am certainly not interested in witch hunts against the parents and equally i do not think that Amaral is some kind of demi god.

What i want to see is justice equally applied in this case as it is in others. Was it absolutely right that the PJ should investigate the parents? Yes of course it was, because any other parent would have to face the same suspicion and questions. Why should the McCann's be any different?

Their statements and actions further added to that suspicion, along with other indications (the dogs) and their rush to hire a crack extradition team and flee PT.

Since then their actions with their friends in killing the PT investigation in my opinion is nothing short of disgraceful and it's actually prevented them from fully clearing themselves of the suspicion against them.

There was no evidence gathered whatsoever to support an abduction despite Pt's largest ever hunt in those early days and i do not blame the PJ for then concentrating on the parents and their group particularly when their statements were so full of holes, they were actively refusing to co-operate with the investigation and they were relying on a spin machine to protect themselves.

Take the names out of the case and imagine a situation like above. In any other case it would be absolutely right to focus the investigation on the family and friends.

But yet with the Mccann's it has to be different. That's what grinds my gears.

What i want is for the parents to fully co-operate with the Portuguese investigation, to answer the questions they refused to answer and then and only then see where the evidence goes.

It winds me up that they should feel they should not have to do this simply because they and their press machine tell the world they were not involved.

It is not up to them (nor any other potential suspect in any other missing child or murder investigation) to do that and to expect exoneration. 

I really hope SY can crack the case however i am waiting until the end of the case before passing judgement. The fact that the Yard have said at this stage they are not persons of interest is irrelevant to me. That status can change at a stroke and equally i'm not one to cry whitewash either.

I will wait until the case is brought to court or closed, see the evidence then pass judgement on the Yard's competence and investigative skills.

But by the same token I'm not going to denigrate the PT investigation either. SY have had twice as long, more man power and money spent on the case than the Portuguese and have found nothing of any substance so far (let's see what Monday brings) over and above the PJ's investigation.

The PJ weren't perfect and they made mistakes but from where i am sitting they do not deserve the witch hunt that the McCann's press machine has dumped on them.

Parents and friends, the last to see the child alive and well, who were not cleared of suspicion, have no right to dictate the terms and focus of a police investigation.

It's that corruption of the investigation process coupled with the still warm stench of suspicion against the parents that i find abhorrent.

I cannot either abide the McCann's spiteful vengeance against a Portuguese civil servant who was trying to find their daughter particularity when the funds used to chase Amaral round the Portuguese courts was donated by people believing it was going to be used to help find a missing child.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2013, 09:54:40 AM »
well said Albertini, think you have spoken for many there......

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #107 on: February 25, 2014, 03:51:48 PM »
Kate's book   (  page 205 )

"We'd never lied about anything  -  not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else.  But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn't seem to have a choice."

The  'lie'  Kate is talking about here is telling the press that a planned trip to Huelva was being cancelled because Gerry was unwell.    ( the truth was that the police were doing forensic work in their villa that day  )

The only point of relevance about the inspection at the villa is that Madeleine never lived there.

So why an inspection?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #108 on: February 25, 2014, 03:56:16 PM »
Well in that case a simple "no comment" is the truthful answer he could have offered, not a reply which is a deliberate and calculated lie.

And there is a bigger issue here. I have provided clear and unequivocal evidence of their lying, and when you watch the clips they do it well. If they can lie so well and so convincingly in this fashion about this, then it stands to reason they can lie as well regarding other matters.

It means we cannot take anything they say at face value and simply accept it as fact. Once someone has been caught out lying their credibility is shot.

So what else are they lying about?

Well i am sorry but your posts are full of praise for them in everything they do. I just commented on the fact that it seems with most supporters every action and decision the McCann's have taken is right and justified on the basis that the parents are innocent. It's all so very black and white, whereas in fact there are shades of grey. You can support them and believe their innocence whilst criticizing some of their actions.


Well you cannot excuse that can you, and you missed the most important part of that out. Not just the fact they left them, but that they left the children (according to them) in an unlocked apartment. No right minded person on either side of the case can or should ever excuse that.

What about the spite filled witch hunt against Amaral and his team? You seem to be ok with that, to such a degree that you support the convicted child killer Cipriano simply because it is a stick with which to beat Amaral with.

You can't say on the one hand the PT justice system is right because it convicted Amaral and then wrong because it convicted Cipriano. Like most supporters you believe the PT justice system is a good thing when it makes decisions which justify your McCann's good, Amaral bad mindset. In just the same way that if the McCann's win the libel case you will be full of praise for PT's justice system and full of criticism if Amaral wins. It's an extension of this black and white mindset. 

I am certainly not interested in witch hunts against the parents and equally i do not think that Amaral is some kind of demi god.

What i want to see is justice equally applied in this case as it is in others. Was it absolutely right that the PJ should investigate the parents? Yes of course it was, because any other parent would have to face the same suspicion and questions. Why should the McCann's be any different?

Their statements and actions further added to that suspicion, along with other indications (the dogs) and their rush to hire a crack extradition team and flee PT.

Since then their actions with their friends in killing the PT investigation in my opinion is nothing short of disgraceful and it's actually prevented them from fully clearing themselves of the suspicion against them.

There was no evidence gathered whatsoever to support an abduction despite Pt's largest ever hunt in those early days and i do not blame the PJ for then concentrating on the parents and their group particularly when their statements were so full of holes, they were actively refusing to co-operate with the investigation and they were relying on a spin machine to protect themselves.

Take the names out of the case and imagine a situation like above. In any other case it would be absolutely right to focus the investigation on the family and friends.

But yet with the Mccann's it has to be different. That's what grinds my gears.

What i want is for the parents to fully co-operate with the Portuguese investigation, to answer the questions they refused to answer and then and only then see where the evidence goes.

It winds me up that they should feel they should not have to do this simply because they and their press machine tell the world they were not involved.

It is not up to them (nor any other potential suspect in any other missing child or murder investigation) to do that and to expect exoneration. 

I really hope SY can crack the case however i am waiting until the end of the case before passing judgement. The fact that the Yard have said at this stage they are not persons of interest is irrelevant to me. That status can change at a stroke and equally i'm not one to cry whitewash either.

I will wait until the case is brought to court or closed, see the evidence then pass judgement on the Yard's competence and investigative skills.

But by the same token I'm not going to denigrate the PT investigation either. SY have had twice as long, more man power and money spent on the case than the Portuguese and have found nothing of any substance so far (let's see what Monday brings) over and above the PJ's investigation.

The PJ weren't perfect and they made mistakes but from where i am sitting they do not deserve the witch hunt that the McCann's press machine has dumped on them.

Parents and friends, the last to see the child alive and well, who were not cleared of suspicion, have no right to dictate the terms and focus of a police investigation.

It's that corruption of the investigation process coupled with the still warm stench of suspicion against the parents that i find abhorrent.

I cannot either abide the McCann's spiteful vengeance against a Portuguese civil servant who was trying to find their daughter particularity when the funds used to chase Amaral round the Portuguese courts was donated by people believing it was going to be used to help find a missing child.

Excellent post.

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(

Estuarine

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2014, 05:18:32 PM »
Excellent post.

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Twos up on that. One of the best posts I have read on here.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #110 on: February 25, 2014, 07:50:09 PM »
Thank you ferryman for reviving this thread. It has given me the opportunity to read Albertinis excellent post. That's #105 for anyone else who's missed it  8((()*/

Agreed, says all those things that you are thinking but struggling to get down.  8@??)(
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #111 on: February 25, 2014, 08:37:00 PM »
She described it admirably herself "an account of the truth.

Not the Actual Truth.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #112 on: February 25, 2014, 11:22:07 PM »
Well done ferryman!

 @)(++(*


Offline pegasus

Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2014, 02:01:10 AM »
The only point of relevance about the inspection at the villa is that Madeleine never lived there.
So why an inspection?
I can't find the reasons listed.
The search warrant application was written in the night ("à noite") of 1st August so presumably that is when the decision was made?.
The search warrant was granted by the judge on 2nd August.
The search was carried out on 2nd Aug starting at about 1800.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The essential lie to the Press which preceded the villa search.
« Reply #114 on: February 26, 2014, 02:10:30 AM »
I can't find the reasons listed.
The search warrant application was written in the night ("à noite") of 1st August so presumably that is when the decision was made?.
The search warrant was granted by the judge on 2nd August.
The search was carried out on 2nd Aug starting at about 1800.

Mark harrison suggested all apartments of the tapas nine and all their cars they had access to be looked at, not a stone throws away to further living quarters ....if madeleine had never been there well, she had never been in murats villa either but they searched and dug that up! Whats the big deal?

then people say pj werent thorough enough

Gnite
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 02:16:22 AM by Redblossom »