A look at the paths around Blocks 4 and 5 at Ocean Club Garden.

[pegasus]

...
No doubt possible to climb for the determined  ... but very difficult, imo.
I would have thought it easier to scale from the higher Rua 1 Maio and jump down on to the alleyway, than to climb from the alleyway up to the Rua 1 Maio. ...

Yes the levels are different. The pavement of Rua 1 Maio is only about half a metre below the top of the alley endwall. For those who have computer good to show streetview here is the wall viewed from the Rua 1 Maio side
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Praia+da+Luz,+Portugal&hl=en&ll=37.088083,-8.731758&spn=0.00066,0.001234&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&geocode=FcXYNQIda716_w&hnear=Praia+da+Luz&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=37.088158,-8.73179&panoid=41YcDwxyyhIiG9ylhgU6WQ&cbp=12,69.79,,0,10.47

[sadie]

Yes the levels are different. The pavement of Rua 1 Maio is only about half a metre below the top of the alley endwall. For those who have computer good to show streetview here is the wall viewed from the Rua 1 Maio side
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Praia+da+Luz,+Portugal&hl=en&ll=37.088083,-8.731758&spn=0.00066,0.001234&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&geocode=FcXYNQIda716_w&hnear=Praia+da+Luz&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=37.088158,-8.73179&panoid=41YcDwxyyhIiG9ylhgU6WQ&cbp=12,69.79,,0,10.47

Yep, and if you look at the nearest buildings behind, you can see that a lot of the bottom part of the build is missing from view.  That is because the property is built on a hill , just the same as at the eastern end where 5A is. 

Remember all the steps up, through the back garden, to the patio area of 5A?   Well the front of the building has no steps up and as we all know the floors inside are flat and horizontal.  There must be a difference in ground level, front to back of 5A, of some 6 feet (0.9 metres).

Maybe the same difference of levels at the western end of the alleyway or maybe a tadge less?   We dont know, but it is a considerable difference.

[icabodcrane]

The whole area, frontage parking, apartments, this pathway and the Tapas gardens and restuarant etc are one with no public thru way per se. 

That's not true is it  ?

Halfway down that path there is  another path  which turns right and leads directly to the carpark in front of the McCanns' apartment

It is freely accessible to the public 

In fact,  it is this very route that the five experts on the Dispatches programme said any abductor would probably have taken 

[pathfinder73]

That's not true is it  ?

Halfway down that path there is  another path  which turns right and leads directly to the carpark in front of the McCanns' apartment

It is freely accessible to the public 

In fact,  it is this very route that the five experts on the Dispatches programme said any abductor would probably have taken 

Yes take that path route between G5 & G4 and you can go through the other car park at G4, exit car park and cross the road to north of wasteland, follow that road down and you come to the Smithman sighting. And possibly caught on the camera Amaral was furious about his team missing.

[John]

Please note this is a new thread.

I have added a location plan which should assist readers.

[sadie]

sadie

The whole area, frontage parking, apartments, this pathway and the Tapas gardens and restuarant etc are one with no public thru way per se.

That's not true is it  ?

Halfway down that path there is  another path  which turns right and leads directly to the carpark in front of the McCanns' apartment

It is freely accessible to the public 

It is accessable to the public, yes, but who in the public would want to take a longer route and to circle all the way back to the Mccanns apartment, unless they were up to no good (or the Mccanns themselves on a leisurely stroll)?  It is also true that the public could go thru the other path and go across the adjoining car park to Rua Agostinho.

But it would be no advantageat all to do so, rather intrusive to the residents, take some courage to walk through there where they might be challenged etc.  And after dark it would be pitch black ... no lights at all ... so it was a no go area for most



For all intents and purposes it was a no through way cos non residents used the pavements on the roads.  Would take a cheeky person to go thru, but you are quite right, it was possible


As I said:

The whole area, frontage parking, apartments, this pathway and the Tapas gardens and restuarant etc are one with no public thru way per se ... cos it wasn't used as such

[sadie]

Thanks for the info. This shot is interesting. Why wouldn't JT use this safer route? Look how wide the path is?

No lighting after dark, so:
1)  spooky
2)  with no lighting no-one would want to leave their patio door unlocked for access.... burglars invitation

[sadie]

Yes take that path route between G5 & G4 and you can go through the other car park at G4, exit car park and cross the road to north of wasteland, follow that road down and you come to the Smithman sighting. And possibly caught on the camera Amaral was furious about his team missing.

That is quite correct pathfinder..  But it seems likely that the abductor would have exited via the front door NOT by the lit and overlooked patio door.  Amaral said that too.

So if the abductor had intended at the time to go west all he had to do was go west acroos the rest of G5 car park, thru the gap and into G4 car park.  Cross that, risk a bit of exposire on Rua Agostinha, cross Rua 1 Maio and bingo he would have been at the north end of Rua d'Escola.


I fully understand what you are getting at!   
Poor Gerry to have all this rubbish thrown at him.

Lucky for him that he has people who witnessed him searching in the tapas area, and Raj and Neil.  There is someone else who saw him, but I have temporarily forgotten who




.... and do you think it is strange that the only witness statements that could save him from these awful thoughts you are having, have been ermmm, "lost" ?! .... >@@(*&)


..... Hmmm, do you wonder why only the Raj and Neil and Caroline Carpenter statements have gone missing? ... >@@(*&).  These are the very statements that verify the time of the start of the search and where Gerry was in the early minutes of the search. 

They are his alibi ... do you think it is strange that they are ALL missing?



Of course this will make no difference to SY.  Especially as these statements have mysteriously vanished, they will make a point of personally interviewing Raj and Neil and ascertain the time they spoke with Gerry.


But how different, might it have been, had Amaral still have been in charge?

[pegasus]

"That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they were leaving the residence through the main door, to place the children in the respective crèches, MADELEINE left running to the left, to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they walked down next to the most remote end of one of those blocks, not knowing exactly which one, and the three children got into one of the gardens at the back. Then they walked down the inside alley at the back, next to the hedges, up to the street that led to the secondary reception." (GM)

Is it possible to go directly from the west end of the carpark of block 4, around the west end of block G4, into the garden of apartment 4F ???

If so that would fit the way the childrens' route is described above.

West along north side of block 5 and along north side of block 4, then around the west end of block 4, into garden of apartment 4F, and then out 4F garden gate into the cul-de-sac section of alleyway, then east along alleyway.

[pathfinder73]

Yes take that path route between G5 & G4 and you can go through the other car park at G4, exit car park and cross the road to north of wasteland, follow that road down and you come to the Smithman sighting. And possibly caught on the camera Amaral was furious about his team missing.

[sadie]

"That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they were leaving the residence through the main door, to place the children in the respective crèches, MADELEINE left running to the left, to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they walked down next to the most remote end of one of those blocks, not knowing exactly which one, and the three children got into one of the gardens at the back. Then they walked down the inside alley at the back, next to the hedges, up to the street that led to the secondary reception." (GM)

Is it possible to go directly from the west end of the carpark of block 4, around the west end of block G4, into the garden of apartment 4F ???
If so that would fit the way the childrens' route is described above.

West along north side of block 5 and along north side of block 4, then around the west end of block 4, into garden of apartment 4F, and then out 4F garden gate into the cul-de-sac section of alleyway, then east along alleyway.

Is it possible to go directly from the west end of the carpark of block 4, around the west end of block G4, into the garden of apartment 4F ???

it is difficult to tell Pegasus, because when it is enlarged too much the image goes fuzzy, but there does seem to be a very narrow way thru.  I  wouldn't like to swear to it tho.

[Cariad]

That is quite correct pathfinder..  But it seems likely that the abductor would have exited via the front door NOT by the lit and overlooked patio door.  Amaral said that too.

So if the abductor had intended at the time to go west all he had to do was go west acroos the rest of G5 car park, thru the gap and into G4 car park.  Cross that, risk a bit of exposire on Rua Agostinha, cross Rua 1 Maio and bingo he would have been at the north end of Rua d'Escola.


I fully understand what you are getting at!   
Poor Gerry to have all this rubbish thrown at him.

Lucky for him that he has people who witnessed him searching in the tapas area, and Raj and Neil.  There is someone else who saw him, but I have temporarily forgotten who




.... and do you think it is strange that the only witness statements that could save him from these awful thoughts you are having, have been ermmm, "lost" ?! .... >@@(*&)


..... Hmmm, do you wonder why only the Raj and Neil and Caroline Carpenter statements have gone missing? ... >@@(*&).  These are the very statements that verify the time of the start of the search and where Gerry was in the early minutes of the search. 

They are his alibi ... do you think it is strange that they are ALL missing?



Of course this will make no difference to SY.  Especially as these statements have mysteriously vanished, they will make a point of personally interviewing Raj and Neil and ascertain the time they spoke with Gerry.


But how different, might it have been, had Amaral still have been in charge?

Why do yo think that the police force who took Raj and Neil's statemnets wouldn't share them with SY?

[pegasus]

Is it possible to walk from block 4 carpark, directly to garden of 4F ?

This aerial view IMO shows there is a gap, between the west end of building 4, and the boundary wall:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Praia+da+Luz,+Portugal&hl=en&ll=37.088293,-8.731737&spn=0.000615,0.001206&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&geocode=FcXYNQIda716_w&hnear=Praia+da+Luz&t=h&z=20

This streetview photo, looking east from Rua 1 Maio, also indicates IMO there is a gap, because one can see that the block 4 building does not extend all the way to the boundary wall with fence on top.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Praia+da+Luz,+Portugal&hl=en&ll=37.08832,-8.731854&spn=0.000615,0.001206&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&geocode=FcXYNQIda716_w&hnear=Praia+da+Luz&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=37.088266,-8.731835&panoid=X6hi9TmYxg2JdA9lo6ll-g&cbp=12,71.12,,0,11.91

[pathfinder73]

"the residence through the main door, to place the children in the respective crèches, MADELEINE left running to the left, to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins."

Madeleine and the twins had to turn left after leaving 5A but they would be blocked by the gate at 5F. They would have
to open the gate which leads you to the middle path between G5 & G4.

"they walked down next to the most remote end of one of those blocks, not knowing exactly which one, and the three children got into one of the gardens at the back."

That had to be G4 and it sounds like the north but is probably the opposite side - back narrow path on the ocean club pool side. It's possibly the end garden next to dead end. Did any of the tracking dogs go to a G4 garden?

"Then they walked down the inside alley at the back, next to the hedges, up to the street that led to the secondary reception."

That's easy- the path on ocean club pool side which leads you around to reception/tapas bar entrance.

[pegasus]

Agreed its likely the garden into which the 3 children got is IMO the garden of one of the six ground floor apartments of block G4. From east to west they are 4A 4B 4C 4D 4E 4F.
From the way it is described, it sounds like maybe they went along the north side of block G4 and around the west extremity of block G4, (and I am leaning towards that instead of the alleyway between G5 and G4). IMO it may be possible (although I am not certain) to pass between the western end of block G4 and the boundary wall. Maybe if the end apartment was that week unoccupied and a possible gate leading from G4 carpark was left open. If so that would automatically mean the end garden would be the one they got into, but I am not certain and I may be wrong. Interesting anyway for it would define a nearby place that has been gone to before.