Author Topic: Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...  (Read 1503 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...
« on: May 24, 2013, 04:27:00 PM »
On another board, a regular poster here suggested not, and I recall that I was quite scathing of the suggestion -- on closer reflection, I believe, unjustly so.

This poster always understood that the point is made in the files, but her assertion was that it isn't made clearly that the dog will react to blood from living people as well as dead.

In that, I believe she's right:



Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.RD.) will search for and locate

human remains and body fluids including blood to very small samples in any

environment or terrain. The initial training of theasset is conducted using pig as the

subject matter for solid hides and human blood for fluid. The use of human remains

for the purpose of training dogs in the U.K. is not acceptable at this point in time. The

dog has however considerable experience inoperational recovery of human remains

and evidential forensic material and has trained exclusively using human remains in

the U.S.A. in association with the F.B.I.
 

Martin Grime.


The training of a VRD provides an alert response using Ivan Pavlov's theory of producing a conditioned reflex, in this case barking, to the presence of detected decomposing human/pig flesh, bone, body fluid and blood.

Mark Harrison

These all seem to be to suggestions of association of blood with death.

But surely most remarkable of all is the (almost) complete absence of reference to blood in John Lowe's forensic report.

I say almost.

There is one.

This is it:

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found. 

They looked for blood and couldn't find it.

What were they looking for in the other results, all reacted to by Keela, the blood dog (a precondition of sending stuff to the laboratory in the first place)?

Above all else, why would Grime have been asked to clarify in his rogatory interview that Eddie does react to blood, lost, explicitly by living people if the point was clear in the first place?

Offline Carana

Re: Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2013, 04:40:36 PM »
I was thinking about something similar the other day.

I could understand taking away the bedclothes to perhaps find unexpected DNA... but Cuddle Cat or the clothes? What on earth would be the point?

Offline Carana

Re: Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 05:00:19 PM »

I find this ambiguous in his profile:

Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.RD.) will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood to very small samples in any environment or terrain.


And this from Harrison's appendix (presumably a version of Grime's profile):

Enhanced training to produce a EVRD
The training of a VRD provides an alert response using Ivan Pavlov’s theory of producing a conditioned reflex, in this case barking, to the presence of detected decomposing human/pig flesh, bone, body fluid and blood.

 

The phrasing doesn't make it clear whether the dog would only react to body fluids, including blood, from a deceased person or not.

It wasn't clarified for quite some time that he would, indeed, react to decomposing substances from a living person.

Grime really should have worded it much more clearly. At the same time, Amaral & Co could have double-checked for clarification, but didn't.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 05:43:18 PM »
Grime really should have worded it much more clearly. At the same time, Amaral & Co could have double-checked for clarification, but didn't.

The (honorable) exception being our old friend PJ Inspector Dias, a perceptive and astute man.

Offline Carana

Re: Was Eddie "sold" as reacting to blood? ...
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 05:56:37 PM »
Grime really should have worded it much more clearly. At the same time, Amaral & Co could have double-checked for clarification, but didn't.

The (honorable) exception being our old friend PJ Inspector Dias, a perceptive and astute man.

There really were some hard-working and bright people on the case (in various capacities and at various times).

I know that you do acknowledge that when you believe it's justified - which is all to your credit.