Author Topic: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?  (Read 6357 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 09:46:07 PM »
I guess it's quite difficult. In a face to face interview, you can base subsequent questions on the answers you receive, whereas with the Rog process, all the questions have to be written out in advance and then asked by a UK officer.
It has been a while since I reviewed the list of questions but I'm sure there would have been one where something new could have been dealt with.  OK that was supposition so I'd better go and look!

"Questions for R O'B from the Letter of Request:

RUSSELL JAMES O'BRIEN should also be asked the following questions :

* At what time did you arrive at the Tapas Restaurant in the evening of 3rd May, 2007 ?

* Were you alone or with your wife ?

* Who was already sitting at the table ?

* How and how often were you checking on your children ?


Page 89

* During that dinner on 3rd May, 2007, were you always at the table ? If not, where did you go ? At what time ? How long were you absent ? How many times were you absent ?

* After the alarm being given what did you do ? Whom did you talk with ? Did you have any photo of MADELEINE in your possession ? If yes, who gave it to you and what kind of photo was this ? Whom did you give the photo(s) ?

* Do you know who informed the Authorities and the Media of Madeleine's disappearance ? Do you know when those Authorities and the Media were informed of Madeleine's disappearance ?

* Did you take part in the searches ? With whom and how were the searches planned ?

* During your stay at the Ocean Club holiday apartment, did you ever leave your apartment doors or windows open ?

* In the days prior to MADELEINE's disappearance did you ever check on your children ? How often ?

* Who is the user of the phone number 447967XXXXXX (a phone number in common with Kate Healy) ? Who was the called party regarding the below listed phone call and what kind of relationship is there between you and this person ?

(Listed here, details of a single incoming call, dated 4th May, 2007, at 7.43 p.m. With a duration of 96.)

* Did the user of phone number 447754XXXXXX, who activated antennas serving the Praia da Luz area and whom you may have been introduced to by the user of the phone number 447967XXXXXX, personally or telephonically contact you ? What kind of relationship is there between you and that person ?


Page 90

* Who is the user of the phone number 447851XXXXXX form whom you received the below listed SMS text message ? What kind of relationship is there between you and that person ?

(Listed here, are details of a single incoming SMS message. Dated 3rd May, 2007, and timed at 10.52 p.m.)

* Who is the user of the phone number 441513XXXXXX to whom you made the below listed phone calls ? What kind of relationship is there between you and that person ?

(Listed here, are details of 2 outgoing calls, dated 4th May, 2007, and timed at 8.13 a.m and 1.49 p.m, with durations of 169 and 213.)

* Who is the user of the phone number 447785XXXXXX to whom you made the below listed phone call ? What kind of relationship is there between you and that person ?

(Listed here, are details of 1 outgoing call, dated 4th May, 2007, and timed at 10.52 a.m., with a duration of 13.)

* Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies.

* And also (questions drawn up by the arguidos (formal suspects).

* For how long have you known Gerald McCann and Kate Healy ? What kind of relationship is there between you and the McCann couple ?

* Have you visited Gerald and Kate at their home address, their children being also present ? If yes, how many times ?

* Have you already spent holidays with them at any other time ? If yes, could you describe the way they took care of their children in the evening / at night ?


Page 91

* How often would you meet Gerald and Kate during the holiday time period between April 28th, 2007, and May 3rd, 2007 ?

* How often would you see their children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie ?

* Have you ever felt you had a reason to become somehow concerned about the children ?

* When was the last time you saw Madeleine ?

* When did you see Gerald and Kate on Thursday, May 3rd, 2007 ?

* At what time did you arrive at the Tapas Restaurant on May 3rd, 2007 ? Who was already there ?

* What were Kate and Gerry doing when you arrived ?

* Did you talk with Kate and Gerald ?

* How were they behaving ?

* Who left the table during the meal and why ?

* Did you see Gerald leaving the table during the meal ? At what time ? How long was he absent ? What did Gerald say when he came back ? Was he behaving or acting differently when he returned ?

* Did you see Jane leaving the table during the meal ? At what time ? How long was she absent ? What did Jane say when she came back ? Was she behaving or acting differently when she returned ?

* Did you see Matthew leaving the table during the meal ? At what time ? How long was he absent ? What did Matthew say when he came back ? Was he behaving or acting differently when he returned ?

* Did you see Kate leaving the table during the meal ? At what time ? How long was she absent ? What did Kate say when she came back ? How did she look like ? What was her behaviour like ? Were you shocked by her words ? What did you do ?


Page 92

* Did you get inside the McCann's holiday apartment ? Did you get inside the bedroom where the children were sleeping ? Can you describe what you saw ? Did you see the twins ? Did you notice anything unusual about them ?

* What did you do next ? Did you take part in the subsequent searches ? Who was you with ?

* On realising Madeleine had not been found in the first 10 minutes, how did Kate react ?

* On realising Madeleine had not been found in the first 10 minutes, how did Gerald react ?

* What is your opinion about their behaviour taking into account Madeleine had gone missing ?

* What did you do between 10.30 p.m. in the evening to 10.00 a.m. of the following day ? Who did you see ?

* Whom did you talk with ?

* When did you leave Portugal ? How many times did you meet Kate and Gerry ? Do you think they were showing a normal behaviour for parents who had lost a child ?

* During the holidays, did you happen to see Kate and Gerry talking with someone unknown ?

* Did you see Kate and Gerry inside a car during the holidays ?

* Is there any supplementary explanation that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth ?"


There is the one question I'm going to see if he answered "* During that dinner on 3rd May, 2007, were you always at the table ? If not, where did you go ? At what time ? How long were you absent ? How many times were you absent ?"

For I have argued Matt and Russell appear to be absent from the table twice that night. 
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Offline Carana

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 09:50:03 PM »
But from the Eleanor quote previously the whole rogatory process had to be based on questions presented by the Portuguese to the T7.  Maybe the right questions were not asked.  I think we can still crack this.

The article was written at the beginning of November 2007. The PT rogatory questions for the T7 weren't sent until 5 weeks later.

The UK police did ask the questions requested by the PJ, but they could also ask further questions. There are numerous instances of "...Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 09:52:33 PM »
The article was written at the beginning of November 2007. The PT rogatory questions for the T7 weren't sent until 5 weeks later.

The UK police did ask the questions requested by the PJ, but they could also ask further questions. There are numerous instances of "...Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm
5 weeks isn't long.  It would take around this amount of time to get things organised.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 09:56:22 PM »
Robittybob1 ... may I remind you this thread that you started is regarding an allegation emanating from Portuguese sources that two of the tapas group wanted to change their testimony.

Please stick to that topic.

In my opinion you are straying into revisiting without exception every slur and calumny directed at the McCanns and which have already been the subject of pay-outs from the press because they were libellous then and they are libellous now.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 10:30:28 PM »
What I'm saying is far from a fallacy and absolutely true
The press make things up or distort

Anyone who doesn't realise that is rather thick

I think I shall frame that one.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 10:37:44 PM »
5 weeks isn't long.  It would take around this amount of time to get things organised.

Rob, I have never found anything to substantiate the innuendo in that story.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 10:42:37 PM »
Rob, I have never found anything to substantiate the innuendo in that story.
Did you look?  What did you find?
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 10:55:19 PM »
Robittybob1 ... may I remind you this thread that you started is regarding an allegation emanating from Portuguese sources that two of the tapas group wanted to change their testimony.

Please stick to that topic.

In my opinion you are straying into revisiting without exception every slur and calumny directed at the McCanns and which have already been the subject of pay-outs from the press because they were libellous then and they are libellous now.

Weren't all the libelous articles removed from the internet?  There didn't seem to be anything libelous in what Fiona Govan has said that I've noticed any way.
I was just looking to see if she was a type of sensationalist and what I've what I seen she seems to be quite reasonable in her research into the articles with her name or co-author.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 03:59:41 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Carana

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 11:11:54 PM »
Weren't all the libelous articles removed from the internet? There didn't seem to be anything libelous in what Fiona Govan has said that I've noticed any way.
I was just looking to see if she was a type of sensationalist and what I've what I seen she seems to be quite reasonable in her research into the articles wth her name.

No.

Have you watched the documentary by Al Jazeera "The McCanns versus the media"? It offers an insight into the pressure on the media to come up with stories and the difficulties of obtaining accurate information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JV6sP9UC4

The Leveson enquiry is also worth reading / watching.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 11:27:27 PM »
No.

Have you watched the documentary by Al Jazeera "The McCanns versus the media"? It offers an insight into the pressure on the media to come up with stories and the difficulties of obtaining accurate information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JV6sP9UC4

The Leveson enquiry is also worth reading / watching.
I have and found it most enlightening.  The Leviston enquiry seemed a bit boring for me.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2017, 04:24:48 AM »
This is a particularly hard topic to find supporting evidence.

"Tapas 9' in secret McCann meeting
Kate and Gerry McCann secretly met the rest of the "Tapas Nine" amid reports Portuguese police are to re-interview them.


BY ROD CHAYTOR VICTORIA WARD
00:00, 11 DEC 2007 UPDATED 20:36, 2 FEB 2012
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tapas-9-in-secret-mccann-meeting-527412

Seems to be significant in some people's eyes.
(saved)
A quote from Clarence Mitchell should be safe enough:  "But the couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell denied that the nine had gathered to square their accounts before a police visit.

He said the emotional reunion "a few weeks ago" at a hotel near the couple's home in Rothley, Leics "was just to discuss the overall situation.

"They weren't comparing notes or doing anything untoward. It was an operational meeting to discuss what might be coming up in the next few weeks.

"They are in touch all the time by phone and emails anyway but decided to meet face to face. They were together for a few hours and discussed the overall position. They wanted to see each other because they hadn't done so for some time."

He added: "It was a private meeting and I therefore don't want to say more about it." End quote.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 04:31:22 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Article: Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story' - was this true?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2017, 05:29:16 AM »
ON the Nov 8, 2007 The DAILY EXPRESS had a similar story: front page: “MADELEINE – NOW TAPAS PALS CHANGE THEIR STORY”.   
"The Express says four members of the group are about to be named as official suspects: Dr Russell O’Brien, Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Dr David Payne
And another denial from Clarence Mitchell:
Says Clarence Mitchell: “All friends have consistently told the truth. They have no need to change their statements as they have nothing to hide… To suggest they are changing their story is an utter misrepresentation of their willingness to help the police”
There certainly is two sides to every story.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 06:27:26 AM by Robittybob1 »
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