Where is the cul-de-sac area that Russell O'Brien talks about?

[Robittybob1]

there are 5 instances of the phrase cul-de-sac in the Tapas 7 and the MsCann statements and I'm finding it confusing.

1.  "When Kate raised the alarm she didn’t get to the table as the area was all enclosed, she was at the start of the path she shouted across to us.  We ran out through the reception we were all in a panic some people went into the flat I stayed outside, I then conducted a quick search of the immediate area with Matt, Dave and possibly Gerry.  We searched a cul-de-sac area which I would describe as being a passage way at the front of the block on the car park side.  We went on to search the gardens and patios.  Then we went downhill towards the centre.  On the second search we went to the shopping centre and then towards the tennis courts.  We searched around the back of the tennis courts.

2 - 5.  "1578    “So ‘It was all enclosed’ to be deleted'”
Reply    “Yeah, and it just says ‘She was at the start of the path when she shouted across to us’, which is fine.  Erm, it’s fine then down to ‘and possibly Gerry’.  I think maybe just to clarify what ‘the cul-de-sac area’ means, that’s actually the passageway and gardens in front of the apartment blocks”.

1578    “’We searched the cul-de-sac area’'”
Reply    “Erm, which is actually the passageway, I think, erm, when I said ‘cul-de-sac’, erm, I was referring to the fact that, although we’d never been along it in that direction, you can’t get out at the other side of the complex from the passageway that separates the pool from patio sides of the apartments.  But we searched down there and we done the adjacent gardens”.

1578    “So we need to describe ‘the cul-de-sac area’ as'”
Reply    “As the ‘passage’, well there, there was, erm, ‘the passageway’.


Was the cul-de-sac on the car park  side of the building or the pool side?

The passageway or alleyway are they the same?

Is the cul-de-sac part of the alleyway? 

Can anyone point to the cul-de-sac on Google Earth?

[sadie]

there are 5 instances of the phrase cul-de-sac in the Tapas 7 and the MsCann statements and I'm finding it confusing.

1.  "When Kate raised the alarm she didn’t get to the table as the area was all enclosed, she was at the start of the path she shouted across to us.  We ran out through the reception we were all in a panic some people went into the flat I stayed outside, I then conducted a quick search of the immediate area with Matt, Dave and possibly Gerry.  We searched a cul-de-sac area which I would describe as being a passage way at the front of the block on the car park side.  We went on to search the gardens and patios.  Then we went downhill towards the centre.  On the second search we went to the shopping centre and then towards the tennis courts.  We searched around the back of the tennis courts.

2 - 5.  "1578    “So ‘It was all enclosed’ to be deleted'”
Reply    “Yeah, and it just says ‘She was at the start of the path when she shouted across to us’, which is fine.  Erm, it’s fine then down to ‘and possibly Gerry’.  I think maybe just to clarify what ‘the cul-de-sac area’ means, that’s actually the passageway and gardens in front of the apartment blocks”.

1578    “’We searched the cul-de-sac area’'”
Reply    “Erm, which is actually the passageway, I think, erm, when I said ‘cul-de-sac’, erm, I was referring to the fact that, although we’d never been along it in that direction, you can’t get out at the other side of the complex from the passageway that separates the pool from patio sides of the apartments.  But we searched down there and we done the adjacent gardens”.

1578    “So we need to describe ‘the cul-de-sac area’ as'”
Reply    “As the ‘passage’, well there, there was, erm, ‘the passageway’.


Was the cul-de-sac on the car park  side of the building or the pool side?

The passageway or alleyway are they the same?

Is the cul-de-sac part of the alleyway? 

Can anyone point to the cul-de-sac on Google Earth?

Yep, they are talking about the far western end of the alleyway that Gerry and Jez chatted near.  I haven't walked that but from the gap between blocks 4 and 5 it becomes a cul de sac. 

There is no way out because of the very different levels between the alleyway and the road Rua Primeiro de Maio .... and also possibly for security and child safety reasons

I haven't walked this, but have only picked it up from GE and a photo.  Would be good if SIL or someone could confirm

Am out now for a while, but hope this clears it up.

[Robittybob1]

Yep, they are talking about the far western end of the alleyway that Gerry and Jez chatted near.  I haven't walked that but from the gap between blocks 4 and 5 it becomes a cul de sac. 

There is no way out because of the very different levels between the alleyway and the road Rua Primeiro de Maio .... and also possibly for security and child safety reasons

I haven't walked this, but have only picked it up from GE and a photo.  Would be good if SIL or someone could confirm

Am out now for a while, but hope this clears it up.

That is certainly what he says later but to begin with it was: "We searched a cul-de-sac area which I would describe as being a passage way at the front of the block on the car park side."  He associates it with the car park and the front of the building. 

Whereas that extension is at the rear and away from the car park. 

[ShiningInLuz]

Yep, they are talking about the far western end of the alleyway that Gerry and Jez chatted near.  I haven't walked that but from the gap between blocks 4 and 5 it becomes a cul de sac. 

There is no way out because of the very different levels between the alleyway and the road Rua Primeiro de Maio .... and also possibly for security and child safety reasons

I haven't walked this, but have only picked it up from GE and a photo.  Would be good if SIL or someone could confirm

Am out now for a while, but hope this clears it up.

Confirmed.  The passageway to the south of blocks 4 and 5 comes to a dead end at the western end, due to the height of Primeiro de Maio.

[John]

Confirmed.  The passageway to the south of blocks 4 and 5 comes to a dead end at the western end, due to the height of Primeiro de Maio.

The end of the pathway.

Photos taken from the public road and through the boundary fence.  It was probably intended initially that the path access the main road at this point but undoubtedly they thought better of it for security reasons.

[sadie]

The end of the pathway.

Photos taken from the public road and through the boundary fence.  It was probably intended initially that the path access the main road at this point but undoubtedly they thought better of it for security reasons.

Thanks John and SIL

It is a cul de sac, but from GE 2007, I believe that the most western apartment has a very narrow side way through, which appears to join the alleyway to the front parking area in front of block 4.

Am not certain about that, but I remember Madeleine in an excited moment running off and IIRC she somehow got into the back garden of the most westerly apartment. and that apartment has a gate thru onto the alleyway, I believe.m  That needs verifying .

[ShiningInLuz]

Thanks John and SIL

It is a cul de sac, but from GE 2007, I believe that the most western apartment has a very narrow side way through, which appears to join the alleyway to the front parking area in front of block 4.

Am not certain about that, but I remember Madeleine in an excited moment running off and IIRC she somehow got into the back garden of the most westerly apartment. and that apartment has a gate thru onto the alleyway, I believe.m  That needs verifying .

At the extreme western end, one can go into the garden of 4F (I have not done this), go around the side, then exit onto the block 4 car park.  Either by hopping over the wall or, similar to block 5, going to the exit by the central stairwell of block 4.  Someone with nefarious intent could have managed it, but it is not public, so I stayed out.

For a while, I too thought Madeleine and the twins had run to the western end of block 4.  But after another on-the-scene check, I scrapped that idea.  There is a difference in ground level between block 5 and block 4.  To get from the car park of 5 to the car park of 4 you have to go up several steep steps.  Personally, I would not be happy with Madeleine doing that on her own.  But there is no way I would have let the twins try that without adult help.

I now believe she and the twins ran to the western end of block 5, then went into the garden of 5F (westernmost ground floor flat), into the passageway, and headed east.

That approximates closely to the trail of the tracker dogs.  But of course, it proves nothing.

[sadie]

At the extreme western end, one can go into the garden of 4F (I have not done this), go around the side, then exit onto the block 4 car park.  Either by hopping over the wall or, similar to block 5, going to the exit by the central stairwell of block 4.  Someone with nefarious intent could have managed it, but it is not public, so I stayed out.

For a while, I too thought Madeleine and the twins had run to the western end of block 4.  But after another on-the-scene check, I scrapped that idea.  There is a difference in ground level between block 5 and block 4.  To get from the car park of 5 to the car park of 4 you have to go up several steep steps.  Personally, I would not be happy with Madeleine doing that on her own.  But there is no way I would have let the twins try that without adult help.

I now believe she and the twins ran to the western end of block 5, then went into the garden of 5F (westernmost ground floor flat), into the passageway, and headed east.

That approximates closely to the trail of the tracker dogs.  But of course, it proves nothing.

Thank you SIL

So good old G Earth got it right (again!)

[slartibartfast]

Thank you SIL

So good old G Earth got it right (again!)

It’s a photograph?