Did this finding get followed up by the PJ?

[Robittybob1]

I was replying to Misty's post which was all about Murat.

I realise that now.  But when you've been struggling with the Steve Carpenter statement for a week or so, you too would realise that it isn't such a good idea to say "he" "they" etc.  Write down who you are talking about.

[Robittybob1]

"There was a description given later that the cleaning staff throw the dirty linen down the hole in the stairwell.  I take that to mean the volume of space around which the stair case spirals.

A thought that occurred to me was that it could be possible  that if a child was not aware this was happening a bundle of linen could be thrown on top of a child standing on the ground floor at a spot centred on the hole.

Could a heavy load of laundry smoother a child?  I think it could if the load was placed into some sort of bag to begin with and especially if thrown from one of the upper floors.  The child could walk into the danger zone as the bag is falling unbeknown to the person throwing the bag.

I believe this to be my most important post in the last 3 years.  No one yet has made a comment.

[jassi]

I believe this to be my most important post in the last 3 years.  No one yet has made a comment.

I can't see how this is important. Madeleine was alive and well at 20.30 according to her parents. How then could she be under a pile of laundry in a stairwell ?
Unless you don't believe the parents account.

[G-Unit]

"There was a description given later that the cleaning staff throw the dirty linen down the hole in the stairwell.  I take that to mean the volume of space around which the stair case spirals.

A thought that occurred to me was that it could be possible  that if a child was not aware this was happening a bundle of linen could be thrown on top of a child standing on the ground floor at a spot centred on the hole.

Could a heavy load of laundry smoother a child?  I think it could if the load was placed into some sort of bag to begin with and especially if thrown from one of the upper floors.  The child could walk into the danger zone as the bag is falling unbeknown to the person throwing the bag.

It was the laundry man who allegedly told a newspaper that sheets were thrown down the stair well. If he was in Block 5 on Thursday looking for dirty sheets he wouldn't find any from 5A imo.

The cleaner doesn't say how often she cleaned, but she does mention cleaning on Wednesday and noticing that the 'spare' bed in the children's room was tidy, it didn't look like it had been used.

We know that it was used on Wednesday night by Kate McCann and in the photos we can see it's untidy. Therefore the cleaner didn't strip the beds in 5A and place fresh sheets on them during Thursday. If she had, that bed would have been tidy as it was the day before. Unless it was changed and left tidy by the cleaner and then messed up again during Thursday daytime.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_CLEANER.htm

[Robittybob1]

It was the laundry man who allegedly told a newspaper that sheets were thrown down the stair well. If he was in Block 5 on Thursday looking for dirty sheets he wouldn't find any from 5A imo.

The cleaner doesn't say how often she cleaned, but she does mention cleaning on Wednesday and noticing that the 'spare' bed in the children's room was tidy, it didn't look like it had been used.

We know that it was used on Wednesday night by Kate McCann and in the photos we can see it's untidy. Therefore the cleaner didn't strip the beds in 5A and place fresh sheets on them during Thursday. If she had, that bed would have been tidy as it was the day before. Unless it was changed and left tidy by the cleaner and then messed up again during Thursday daytime.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_CLEANER.htm

From my initial reading of that I agree with what you say there G-unit.
I'm not sure how many guests they had onsite in block 4 or 5, so I have no idea how heavy the bundles would have been.
The potential for an accident didn't even have to occur in the foyer of block 5 it could be block 4, It only had to result in someone coming from that direction. Jane had no real idea where Tannerman come from only the fact of the direction, she said he went across the road from the left to the right.

If Block 5 was cleaned on Wednesday it is possible it was block 4's turn on the Thursday.   I'm wondering if that is why Neil Berry makes a type of Freudian Slip and says "4G"  he seems to admit going toward the stairs of Block 4 and I can't imagine why.

I've just had an idea; was Neil Berry describing some special access Block 4 guests had to access the swimming pool area?  Do you think all the guests from Block 4 had to take the long way around to the secondary reception entrance to go to dinner?  That is something I'm going to have to check out.

[Robittybob1]

I can't see how this is important. Madeleine was alive and well at 20.30 according to her parents. How then could she be under a pile of laundry in a stairwell ?
Unless you don't believe the parents account.

Jane Tanner's original estimate was the child to be 2 years old.  There is nothing about Jane Tanner's original account to suggest the man was carrying Madeleine.  I'm not suggesting the child being carried was Madeleine.
All we are looking at is the potential of an accident happening, most likely over at block 4, when bundles of laundry were thrown down the hole in the stairwell.

"Meanwhile a man appeared ( * ) carrying a child (**), with a hurried walk, it being this detail together with the fact that the child dressed in pyjamas, without being wrapped up in a blanket, that caught her attention. She only managed to see him from the side, with the child in his arms. She noticed the individual's presence exactly when she had just passed by Gerry and Jez who were talking, having seen this person step off the pavement that borders on the apartment block where they were staying and rapidly cross the road."
"Personal description:

( * ) Dark skinned individual, male sex, aged between 35-40, slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back (she could only see him from behind). He was wearing linen type cloth trousers, beige to golden in colour, a "duffy" sic type jacket (but not that thick). His shoes were dark in colour, classic type. He had a hurried walk. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. By the way he was dressed, he gave her the impression that he was not a tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed".

(**) About the child whom appeared to be sleeping, she only saw her legs. The child appeared to be older than a baby. She was barefoot and was wearing what appeared to be cotton pyjamas of a light colour (possibly white or light pink). She is not certain, but has the impression a design on the pyjamas, possibly a floral pattern, but she is not certain."

[jassi]

From my initial reading of that I agree with what you say there G-unit.
I'm not sure how many guests they had onsite in block 4 or 5, so I have no idea how heavy the bundles would have been.
The potential for an accident didn't even have to occur in the foyer of block 5 it could be block 4, It only had to result in someone coming from that direction. Jane had no real idea where Tannerman come from only the fact of the direction, she said he went across the road from the left to the right.

If Block 5 was cleaned on Wednesday it is possible it was block 4's turn on the Thursday.   I'm wondering if that is why Neil Berry makes a type of Freudian Slip and says "4G"  he seems to admit going toward the stairs of Block 4 and I can't imagine why.

I've just had an idea; was Neil Berry describing some special access Block 4 guests had to access the swimming pool area?  Do you think all the guests from Block 4 had to take the long way around to the secondary reception entrance to go to dinner?  That is something I'm going to have to check out.

What sort of time of day are you envisaging for this accident ?

[Robittybob1]

What sort of time of day are you envisaging for this accident ?

The cleaners all had that type of standard statement remember, there were three that I have pointed out already, they finished at 6:00 PM.
It appears the laundry men would come in after they finished to tidy up at the bottom of the stairwells.  So I don't know exactly but sometime between 6 and 9:00 PM.  Jane saw the man around 9:15 thereabouts so it must be around 9:00 when the kid was picked up.

If a child was knocked over by laundry I wouldn't think of "blood" but smothering, and it isn't easy to smother  just by clothing i'd imagine so there could be a long period of distress.   That is something I'd base on my experience of on previously being a vet.  An unconscious animal can remain in a coma state for a long time, breathing slowly.

[jassi]

The cleaners all had that type of standard statement remember, there were three that I have pointed out already, they finished at 6:00 PM.
It appears the laundry men would come in after they finished to tidy up at the bottom of the stairwells.  So I don't know exactly but sometime between 6 and 9:00 PM.  Jane saw the man around 9:15 thereabouts so it must be around 9:00 when the kid was picked up.

If a child was knocked over by laundry I wouldn't think of "blood" but smothering, and it isn't easy to smother  just by clothing i'd imagine so there could be a long period of distress.   That is something I'd base on my experience of on being a vet.  An unconscious animal can remain in a coma state for a long time, breathing slowly.

So when do you think she was carried away from the scene of the accident?

[Mr Gray]

So when do you think she was carried away from the scene of the accident?

Rob isnt talking about Maddie

[Robittybob1]

Rob isnt talking about Maddie

That is right but Jane also thought the person being carried was a girl because of the colour and style of the pyjama trouser legs.  Pink, floral, frills etc.  so we might guess it was a "she" as Jassi implied.

[Robittybob1]

So when do you think she was carried away from the scene of the accident?

Well when did Jane see Tannerman? Moments after she passes Gerry and Jez talking, and Jez has been walking around for about an hour by then depending on when he set out from his apartment in block 4. How did he get the push chair up the stairs?  Did they have a lift in block 4?  Well in any case was there a pile of laundry that Jez had to walk past in the foyer of block 4 as he set out?   Trouble could be the lifts and the stairs aren't always beside each other, so he might not have noticed.

[jassi]

Well when did Jane see Tannerman?

Tannerman has been explained by OG

[Robittybob1]

Tannerman has been explained by OG

Not to my satisfaction it wasn't.  The girls were the wrong size, possibly wrong age, colour of clothing, and most importantly going in the wrong direction.

[jassi]

Not to my satisfaction it wasn't.  The girls were the wrong size, possibly wrong age, colour of clothing, and most importantly going in the wrong direction.

Wrong size and age  for what, or should I say who ?