Does Madeleine have the right to be found?

[G-Unit]

Do you think that isn't already happening and not just with the forces of law and order in Britain and in Portugal?

I expect it is. Another poster was suggesting that OG knew where Madeleine was but were helpless to act. I disagree because they can act through Interpol in my opinion.

[Brietta]

I expect it is. Another poster was suggesting that OG knew where Madeleine was but were helpless to act. I disagree because they can act through Interpol in my opinion.

I don't quite remember the days when we just sent a gun boat to sort things out ... but I am reasonably aware of the geopolitical situations which might be curtailing lawful options.

Madeleine could be anywhere in the world and not necessarily in an easily accessible law abiding or a law respecting society.

[G-Unit]

I don't quite remember the days when we just sent a gun boat to sort things out ... but I am reasonably aware of the geopolitical situations which might be curtailing lawful options.

Madeleine could be anywhere in the world and not necessarily in an easily accessible law abiding or a law respecting society.

That would make Madeleine the unluckiest child ever imo. Stranger abduction is incredibly rare for a start. To be located in one of the few countries that don't cooperate via Interpol would be the icing on the cake.

[barrier]

I suspect that Operation Grange already know where Madeleine is, although it would be difficult to extract her from some places while she is still underage.  All in my opinion, of course.

Given that Rowley wouldn't or couldn't confirm either way and back in 2014 OG were digging up the Portuguese countryside it can't have been for a live child could it,its unlikely they know where a live child is imo.

[G-Unit]

I don't quite remember the days when we just sent a gun boat to sort things out ... but I am reasonably aware of the geopolitical situations which might be curtailing lawful options.

Madeleine could be anywhere in the world and not necessarily in an easily accessible law abiding or a law respecting society.

I've been listening to a very interesting book by Peter Snow on Radio 4 Extra; The night Britain set fire to the White House. The troops, being hungry, ate the President's dinner first.

[Eleanor]

Disclosing evidence to another police force so they can help to solve a case is, I imagine, quite usual.

But they need Proof. The Police Force of another Country need Proof, as so they should.

I am trying very hard to be inoffensive, while you are disseminating, and coming up with stupid explanations.

Either of us could be right.  But another Country does need proof before they can do anything.

One might wonder if you actually want Madeleine to be found, presuming that this is possible.

[Eleanor]

Disclosing evidence to another police force so they can help to solve a case is, I imagine, quite usual.

Maybe they have.  How would we know?

[slartibartfast]

How do you suggest they obtain this evidence?

If you suspect they already know they must have evidence.

[Eleanor]

If you suspect they already know they must have evidence.

Probably.

[G-Unit]

But they need Proof. The Police Force of another Country need Proof, as so they should.

I am trying very hard to be inoffensive, while you are disseminating, and coming up with stupid explanations.

Either of us could be right.  But another Country does need proof before they can do anything.

One might wonder if you actually want Madeleine to be found, presuming that this is possible.

I'm neither disseminating nor coming up with stupid explanations.

I know there are mechanisms whereby the UK police can work with police in other countries. Interpol is one route, mutual legal assistance another. The Portuguese were able to ask the UK for Madeleine's dental records and her parent's and friend's financial records, for example. They had to make a case for having that information but not provide proof of anything.

Please explain why you think OG would need proof of something in order to request assistance from a foreign police force.

[Eleanor]

I'm neither disseminating nor coming up with stupid explanations.

I know there are mechanisms whereby the UK police can work with police in other countries. Interpol is one route, mutual legal assistance another. The Portuguese were able to ask the UK for Madeleine's dental records and her parent's and friend's financial records, for example. They had to make a case for having that information but not provide proof of anything.

Please explain why you think OG would need proof of something in order to request assistance from a foreign police force.

e
For God's sake.  They need proof that any child is Madeleine.  How do you think that anyone is going to get this without access to the child, which they have no legal right to in some societies.
This cannot  be done.

[Brietta]

I'm neither disseminating nor coming up with stupid explanations.

I know there are mechanisms whereby the UK police can work with police in other countries. Interpol is one route, mutual legal assistance another. The Portuguese were able to ask the UK for Madeleine's dental records and her parent's and friend's financial records, for example. They had to make a case for having that information but not provide proof of anything.

Please explain why you think OG would need proof of something in order to request assistance from a foreign police force.

I asked: "Do you think that isn't already happening and not just with the forces of law and order in Britain and in Portugal?" http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10048.msg484548#msg484548 and have been studiously ignored.

There are numerous examples of international police cooperation in Madeleine's case and no doubt in many others.

Snip
Police have announced the results of DNA tests on a girl in New Zealand who has been mistaken for missing British youngster Madeleine McCann.
Members of the public have twice mistaken the girl for Madeleine and British police asked for testing to be carried out to confirm she was not the missing child.
The first sighting was last March and the second on New Year's Eve.
New Zealand police say in a statement that they sent the DNA samples to Scotland Yard officers who are still investigating Madeleine's disappearance.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-lookalike-dna-test-results-10454743


The huge mystery I have with it all is why when the irrefutable evidence of the incompetence of Amaral's and second in command Paiva's team is presented it is also studiously ignored.

One can see why that little girl could have been mistaken for Madeleine by people who had a better sight of her than that muzzy CCTV image.
What one cannot comprehend is why that image and information was consigned to Paiva's file of information not considered relevant to the investigation.

NEW ZEALAND
Portuguese ignored NZ Madeline McCann 'sighting' - police
3 Mar, 2010 7:00pm
New Zealand police are defending their response after reports of a possible sighting of missing British girl Madeline McCann in a Dunedin shop.

Madeline was four-years-old when she disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in July 2008 while her parents dined at a restaurant less than 100m away.

A massive worldwide search for her was mounted but with no success.

However, it has just been revealed she may have been seen by a security guard at a Dunedin supermarket in December 2008, but the information was disregarded.

A 2000-page dossier from Portugal police contained a series of sightings from around the world - including CCTV footage from the Dunedin supermarket of a child resembling Madeleine - which were never investigated, Britain's Daily Mail reported today.

The Dunedin footage showed a girl "very like" Madeleine being led into a supermarket by a "portly man in shorts", The man's behaviour aroused the suspicions of a security guard who approached the girl to establish whether she was British.

Although the girl said her name was Hailey, the security guard was convinced the girl was Madeleine and reported the incident to police.

Dunedin police today confirmed they had received the information from the security guard.

Acting Southern District Commander, Inspector David Campbell, said police spoke with the woman to establish what had been seen.

A report was filed and police gathered security footage of the child, who had the appearance of Madeleine McCann, and the family with her, Mr Campbell said.

Police could not get any other information to help with the inquiry.

The file was then forwarded to Interpol, Mr Campbell said.

"The lead jurisdiction, in this case, Portugal, directs how the case progresses and has not asked NZ Police for any follow-up to date."

The file has remained open ever since, Mr Campbell said.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate were reported to be "gutted" and "incensed" that their private investigators were not given access to the information, The Daily Mail reported

"There are instances where information which we think is very credible and worthy of information has not been actioned," Mrs McCann said.

Information that police forces in the United States, Europe and North Africa considered important was also discarded, the dossier revealed.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629715

[Eleanor]

No one is ever going to know if no one will allow it.  Although I doubt that this will be the case for too long should facts suggest otherwise.

Some societies are very careful of the rights of their citizens, as they should be. So there is very little possibility of  anything like dental  records. or DNA, unless it can be proven, which under the present circumstances, i can't.

How ever, Madeleine is coming up Sixteen years old, in which case it could be a different story.

I  have always hoped that Madeleine is alive and well cared for.  Call me stupid if you like.

[slartibartfast]

I asked: "Do you think that isn't already happening and not just with the forces of law and order in Britain and in Portugal?" http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10048.msg484548#msg484548 and have been studiously ignored.

There are numerous examples of international police cooperation in Madeleine's case and no doubt in many others.

Snip
Police have announced the results of DNA tests on a girl in New Zealand who has been mistaken for missing British youngster Madeleine McCann.
Members of the public have twice mistaken the girl for Madeleine and British police asked for testing to be carried out to confirm she was not the missing child.
The first sighting was last March and the second on New Year's Eve.
New Zealand police say in a statement that they sent the DNA samples to Scotland Yard officers who are still investigating Madeleine's disappearance.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-lookalike-dna-test-results-10454743


The huge mystery I have with it all is why when the irrefutable evidence of the incompetence of Amaral's and second in command Paiva's team is presented it is also studiously ignored.

One can see why that little girl could have been mistaken for Madeleine by people who had a better sight of her than that muzzy CCTV image.
What one cannot comprehend is why that image and information was consigned to Paiva's file of information not considered relevant to the investigation.

NEW ZEALAND
Portuguese ignored NZ Madeline McCann 'sighting' - police
3 Mar, 2010 7:00pm
New Zealand police are defending their response after reports of a possible sighting of missing British girl Madeline McCann in a Dunedin shop.

Madeline was four-years-old when she disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in July 2008 while her parents dined at a restaurant less than 100m away.

A massive worldwide search for her was mounted but with no success.

However, it has just been revealed she may have been seen by a security guard at a Dunedin supermarket in December 2008, but the information was disregarded.

A 2000-page dossier from Portugal police contained a series of sightings from around the world - including CCTV footage from the Dunedin supermarket of a child resembling Madeleine - which were never investigated, Britain's Daily Mail reported today.

The Dunedin footage showed a girl "very like" Madeleine being led into a supermarket by a "portly man in shorts", The man's behaviour aroused the suspicions of a security guard who approached the girl to establish whether she was British.

Although the girl said her name was Hailey, the security guard was convinced the girl was Madeleine and reported the incident to police.

Dunedin police today confirmed they had received the information from the security guard.

Acting Southern District Commander, Inspector David Campbell, said police spoke with the woman to establish what had been seen.

A report was filed and police gathered security footage of the child, who had the appearance of Madeleine McCann, and the family with her, Mr Campbell said.

Police could not get any other information to help with the inquiry.

The file was then forwarded to Interpol, Mr Campbell said.

"The lead jurisdiction, in this case, Portugal, directs how the case progresses and has not asked NZ Police for any follow-up to date."

The file has remained open ever since, Mr Campbell said.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate were reported to be "gutted" and "incensed" that their private investigators were not given access to the information, The Daily Mail reported

"There are instances where information which we think is very credible and worthy of information has not been actioned," Mrs McCann said.

Information that police forces in the United States, Europe and North Africa considered important was also discarded, the dossier revealed.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629715

“The girl said her name was Hailey”.

[Snowgirl]

I suspect that Operation Grange already know where Madeleine is, although it would be difficult to extract her from some places while she is still underage.  All in my opinion, of course.

Might I ask how you have come to that as well as “it would be difficult to extract her “ etc. ?
Sounds like an operation  undertaken by the SAS  at times.