Author Topic: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  (Read 11270 times)

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Offline Faithlilly

Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« on: August 20, 2018, 12:50:07 AM »
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 01:10:06 PM by John »
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
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Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 07:29:27 AM »
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?
Are you suggesting that the media should be denied the opportunity to report on anything they believe is in the public interest lest it leads to the suicide of the subject of its news story?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 08:07:49 AM »
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 08:12:14 AM »
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.


A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 08:12:59 AM »
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.

exactly the dossier  creators and  sky  news    uk  are  to blame for brenda killing herself imo

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 08:22:43 AM »

A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.

Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.

 
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 08:28:07 AM »
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?


Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 08:36:19 AM »

Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.

Did her family take any action against Sky?
Not necessarily legal action but did they express any grievance with Sky.
If I felt a family member had committed suicide because of the behaviour of a television channel, I would certainly make my opinion known.
But perhaps the family knew her better than any of us and perhaps because she had attempted suicide before, they were aware perhaps that it was much more complex than any of us would know.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 08:38:23 AM »
Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.

Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 08:39:06 AM »
Did her family take any action against Sky?
Not necessarily legal action but did they express any grievance with Sky.
If I felt a family member had committed suicide because of the behaviour of a television channel, I would certainly make my opinion known.
But perhaps the family knew her better than any of us and perhaps because she had attempted suicide before, they were aware perhaps that it was much more complex than any of us would know.


Doesn't escape the fact there was a trial my media in both cases,yet one goes on to win compensation,the other sadly loses her life.Neither of them broke any laws.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 08:43:44 AM »

A Question.
If you were aware of intimidating posts, hate posts etc being made against a named family and this was continuing week after week.
What would you do?
And if you chose to do nothing, how would you feel if one of these posters did carry out their threats.

I know of a young girl who hanged herself because of continuing social media intimidation.

 Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!

Offline carlymichelle

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 08:45:42 AM »
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!

exactly  its been a taboo subject for  supporters but   i have no doubt if they had not taken it on themselves to act on the mcanns behalf   brenda would be alive right  now

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 09:10:17 AM »
exactly  its been a taboo subject for  supporters but   i have no doubt if they had not taken it on themselves to act on the mcanns behalf   brenda would be alive right  now

 Yes, the McCanns supposedly were unaware of twitter and didn't use it. So how could they say any of it impacted on them?

  The people compiling the dossier couldn't get Brenda banned from twitter because she wasn't breaking their rules and the police weren't particularly interested because she made no threats or stalking ( as defined in law) occurred.
 
They used the press before the police had concluded anything, intimidating someone as their preferred method of stifling free speech.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 09:11:43 AM »
Does behaviour have to be criminal before it is deemed wrong?

Deemed wrong by some, but who decides that their opinion is right? Them?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 09:14:20 AM »
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!

Very well put.  8@??)(
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything