Author Topic: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  (Read 11248 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 09:15:46 AM »

Brenda Leyland got vilified and didn't break any laws,Cliff Richard's on the other hand broke no laws but won compensation, go figure.
Cliff Richard has been vilified for years on the internet, and probably still is being to this day, "Brenda Leyland - internet troll" was a storm in a teacup and had she not chosen to end her life, her brush with infamy would have been yesterday's fish and chip paper by the weekend.  As it is, I doubt her name or her story now means anything whatsoever to 99.9% of the country's population. 

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 09:15:50 AM »
Yes, the McCanns supposedly were unaware of twitter and didn't use it. So how could they say any of it impacted on them?

  The people compiling the dossier couldn't get Brenda banned from twitter because she wasn't breaking their rules and the police weren't particularly interested because she made no threats or stalking ( as defined in law) occurred.
 
They used the press before the police had concluded anything, intimidating someone as their preferred method of stifling free speech.

So if you read continuing threatening and nasty posts against a named person who were themselves unaware of these threats, you would deem these posts as unimportant just because the person being threatened was unaware of the threats.
Just because the rules of posting on social media are so futile does not make it acceptable to post  hate!
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2018, 09:16:46 AM »
None of the other people in that infamous dossier was outed following Brunt's 'scoop'. None of them was prosecuted by the police either. Their 'crimes' existed only in the eyes of those who took it  upon themselves to compile the dossier and hand it to the media. That's something neither they nor Sky News were qualified to decide in my opinion.

Respect for the law is important because we live by the rule of law. If the law is wrong it's OK to campaign to change it, it's not OK to take it into your own hands.
What do you think of the Hacked Off campaign?  Rhetorical question, no need to answer. 

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2018, 09:18:10 AM »
Who decides whether a crime has been or is about to be committed? The police. The police were made aware and there the 'concerned citizen's' involvement ends.
Your complete and utter trust in the police to decide when to pursue a criminal prosecution is very surprising to me. 

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2018, 09:19:18 AM »
Deemed wrong by some, but who decides that their opinion is right? Them?

Most right minding folk would deem it wrong to post threatening and abusive posts to a family of a missing child, even if the recipients of such posts are unaware of them.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 09:20:42 AM »
Most right minding folk would deem it wrong to post threatening and abusive posts to a family of a missing child, even if the recipients of such posts are unaware of them.

Brenda leyland commited no crime so what threating and abusive post's are you refering to?
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2018, 09:23:59 AM »
Surely you should:

a) contact the social media platform and point out someone is breaking it's rules ( if they are)

b) consult lawyers if you think someone is committing libel ( but you have to be the alleged victim to do this)

b) contact police if you believe someone is committing the crimes of harassment or stalking. ( with evidence )

c) not take it upon yourself to contact the media about one particular individual and encourage them to single that person out before the police have investigated that person.


   Or maybe I would ignore the posts as they were someones opinion and not threats against someone. It's called freedom of speech. You mention threats, where did Brenda ever make a threat?

   From Sky news  "she had tweeted or retweeted 2,210 posts, of which 424 mentioned the McCanns. Her tweets did not constitute a criminal offence, the inquest heard. ''

The people who compiled the dossier took it upon themselves to define what is acceptable or not for individuals to say and then in contacting the press engaged in harassing an individual, which is something they were supposedly against!
The people who compiled the dossier did just that - compile a dossier.  There's no law against it.  There is no law against sending it to the media, it's up to the media if they act on it.  No one held a gun to anyone's head as far as I'm aware, nor was Brenda specifically targeted but was one of dozens of anonymous tweeters, Brunt tracked down her identity himself.  What exactly are you suggesting - that concerned members of the public, who are ignored by the police, should just put up with things, as the police have the final word on all matters?  Tell that to the victims of the Hillsborough disaster, to child sex grooming gangs, and thousands of other injustices that have been highlighted by the media, forcing the police to finally get their arses in gear and act. 

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2018, 09:25:09 AM »
Brenda leyland commited no crime so what threating and abusive post's are you refering to?

That's the problem.
It would seem posting nasty and abusive posts is not a crime.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM »
So if you read continuing threatening and nasty posts against a named person who were themselves unaware of these threats, you would deem these posts as unimportant just because the person being threatened was unaware of the threats.
Just because the rules of posting on social media are so futile does not make it acceptable to post  hate!

Nasty is a subjective term.    'threat' is not so subjective. Where did Brenda threaten anyone, she didn't!

 The problem with the 'troll dossier' is people taking it upon themselves to be moral police and trying to silence other people based on their opinions.  no-one has a right to do that IMO, there are laws there for if someone makes threats towards you, having 'nasty' opinions is not against the law, so people shouldn't be contacting the police and media about it.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2018, 09:29:25 AM »
Your complete and utter trust in the police to decide when to pursue a criminal prosecution is very surprising to me.

I never said I trusted them, I said it's their job not the public's or the media's.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2018, 09:29:57 AM »
Cliff Richard has been vilified for years on the internet, and probably still is being to this day, "Brenda Leyland - internet troll" was a storm in a teacup and had she not chosen to end her life, her brush with infamy would have been yesterday's fish and chip paper by the weekend.  As it is, I doubt her name or her story now means anything whatsoever to 99.9% of the country's population.

Shouldn't two innocent parties receive the same amount of privacy?
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Erngath

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2018, 09:31:38 AM »
Nasty is a subjective term.    'threat' is not so subjective. Where did Brenda threaten anyone, she didn't!

 The problem with the 'troll dossier' is people taking it upon themselves to be moral police and trying to silence other people based on their opinions.  no-one has a right to do that IMO, there are laws there for if someone makes threats towards you, having 'nasty' opinions is not against the law, so people shouldn't be contacting the police and media about it.

If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2018, 09:34:25 AM »
The people who compiled the dossier did just that - compile a dossier.  There's no law against it.  There is no law against sending it to the media, it's up to the media if they act on it.  No one held a gun to anyone's head as far as I'm aware, nor was Brenda specifically targeted but was one of dozens of anonymous tweeters, Brunt tracked down her identity himself.  What exactly are you suggesting - that concerned members of the public, who are ignored by the police, should just put up with things, as the police have the final word on all matters?  Tell that to the victims of the Hillsborough disaster, to child sex grooming gangs, and thousands of other injustices that have been highlighted by the media, forcing the police to finally get their arses in gear and act.

 Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2018, 09:35:46 AM »
If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j

You originally said Brenda made threats. She didn't.  ....and you miss the point again, being nasty is not a crime and never should be. The whole point of freedom of speech is that we defend people's opinions even if we don't agree with them.
 
   

Offline Lace

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2018, 09:36:06 AM »
exactly the dossier  creators and  sky  news    uk  are  to blame for brenda killing herself imo

You are making a very serious accusation there carly.    No one knows what drove BL to kill herself,  she had attempted it once before.   It could have been a row with one of her sons for example.   Martin Brunt stated she was in a good frame of mind when he last spoke to her.