Author Topic: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  (Read 11265 times)

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Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2018, 09:39:03 AM »
Brenda Leyland was tried and convicted by the media long before SY had looked at the facts surrounding her tweets and found she had broke no law.

Is it right that, although not charged with any crime, she was vilified like a common criminal or was she, like ever other U.K. citizen, entitled not to have her identity made public until she was actually accused of a crime ?

At 28 seconds Brunt tells Leyland she had been reported to the police and Scotland yard were investigating.So she didn't or wasn't receiving any right it would seem.

 https://youtu.be/2pW0_bh4bz4?t=30s
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 09:41:29 AM by barrier »
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2018, 09:40:54 AM »
I never said I trusted them, I said it's their job not the public's or the media's.
So if the police refuse to investigate serious allegations of misconduct within their own ranks for example, then tough shit, live with it, don't take the evidence to the media.  Okie dokes.  Sounds a bit police state-ish to me.

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2018, 09:42:09 AM »
So if the police refuse to investigate serious allegations of misconduct within their own ranks for example, then tough shit, live with it, don't take the evidence to the media.  Okie dokes.  Sounds a bit police state-ish to me.

It is at times when the police investigate themselves.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2018, 09:42:54 AM »
Shouldn't two innocent parties receive the same amount of privacy?
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future. 

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2018, 09:44:30 AM »
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future.

10/15 yrs ago it wouldn't have been known before the internet age anyway.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Lace

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2018, 09:45:33 AM »
Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.

I believe BL was in conversation with Martin Brunt on twitter.    He was not to know she was mentally delicate,  on the contrary she sounded by her tweets to be a very confident woman.   Her tweets were among those others that were taken from the internet.   Martin Brunt no doubt knew BL and where she lived.   Its a journalists job to confront people,  he was doing his job.   It is very unfortunate that he chose BL to confront as unknown to him she was mentally ill.   Martin Brunt said he was devastated by her death.   BL didn't have to take Martin Brunt into her home,  she didn't have to converse with him at all.   When asked why she was sending her tweets she replied 'I have a right to' or similar words,  she could have just left it at that.   BL made it quite clear in the area where she lived her views on the McCann's.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2018, 09:49:19 AM »
Yes Brenda was unfairly targeted. It was her doorstep that Sky turned up on. Was she someone with resources or a press team of her own to handle such intrusion?  If we want to get into moral debates then there's one for you.  Why did sky not want to doorstep some male 'trolls' or was an older single woman on her own an easier target?

   Brenda's name was unfairly linked with other people's messages in the Daily Mail giving the impression that she was responsible for most of what was said. She was set up as a scapegoat.

  The concerned members of the public in this case chose not to wait for the police to investigate, this is not the same as Hillsborough where police refused to investigate!  Also Brenda committed no crime by expressing her opinions, so how was the situation an 'injustice'?  How you can compare it to Hillsborough, I don't know.
I am talking about the principle of alerting the media to perceived injustices or criminal behaviour.   You either believe in the right of any individual to go to the media with their concerns when the police seem disinterested, and in the right of the media to decide whether or not what has been brought to them is worthy of reporting, or you don't - whether it's a big tragic case like Hillsborough in which police failings seemed to be brushed under the carper by a police force closing ranks and protecting its own,  or the sustained and lengthy campaign of a bunch of online anonymous commentators who use social media to intimidate, mock, deride, insinuate, threaten, accuse and spread lies about the family of a missing child and anyone associated with them, including their supporters.  Phew!  Long sentence.  Sorry about that.

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2018, 09:50:48 AM »
Well you'll be pleased to learn that Cliff's Law means that anyone simply suspected of any crime by the police will be protected from any media coverage in future.

In the Claudia Lawrence Murder case there have been around 5 men arrested at various times later released with out charge,as far as I can see only one man was named and that was possibly it seems locally.So not naming anyone doesn't need no cliff's law.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 09:51:23 AM »
If you don't describe the abuse and threats made on social media to the McCanns as nasty, then we have different standards of acceptable behaviour.
There are now two threads about this lady and for today I am finished posting on either.
In modern terminology, we are in the process of a a major refurbishment and I will be very busy.j

It's obvious that people have different opinions on what is 'nasty'. Some think its nasty to criticise the McCann's childcare arrangements. I think it's not. Some think it's OK to make fun of policemen in another country. I think it's nasty. Standards of acceptable behaviour are based on opinion. Opinion can't be used as a benchmark. Law is the universal benchmark.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2018, 09:56:53 AM »
I believe BL was in conversation with Martin Brunt on twitter.    He was not to know she was mentally delicate,  on the contrary she sounded by her tweets to be a very confident woman.   Her tweets were among those others that were taken from the internet.   Martin Brunt no doubt knew BL and where she lived.   Its a journalists job to confront people,  he was doing his job.   It is very unfortunate that he chose BL to confront as unknown to him she was mentally ill.   Martin Brunt said he was devastated by her death.   BL didn't have to take Martin Brunt into her home,  she didn't have to converse with him at all.   When asked why she was sending her tweets she replied 'I have a right to' or similar words,  she could have just left it at that.   BL made it quite clear in the area where she lived her views on the McCann's.

   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 


Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2018, 09:59:39 AM »
It's obvious that people have different opinions on what is 'nasty'. Some think its nasty to criticise the McCann's childcare arrangements. I think it's not. Some think it's OK to make fun of policemen in another country. I think it's nasty. Standards of acceptable behaviour are based on opinion. Opinion can't be used as a benchmark. Law is the universal benchmark.

In the case of Brenda no laws were broken so in pursuit of a story sky news were certainly lacking in what they would describe as "in the public interest".
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2018, 10:01:20 AM »
   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2018, 10:03:00 AM »
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?

Start a new thread?
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2018, 10:04:51 AM »
I am talking about the principle of alerting the media to perceived injustices or criminal behaviour.   You either believe in the right of any individual to go to the media with their concerns when the police seem disinterested, and in the right of the media to decide whether or not what has been brought to them is worthy of reporting, or you don't - whether it's a big tragic case like Hillsborough in which police failings seemed to be brushed under the carper by a police force closing ranks and protecting its own,  or the sustained and lengthy campaign of a bunch of online anonymous commentators who use social media to intimidate, mock, deride, insinuate, threaten, accuse and spread lies about the family of a missing child and anyone associated with them, including their supporters. Phew!  Long sentence.  Sorry about that.


Can you not see that all those things you describe come under the banner of freedom of speech, except 'threaten' - but Brenda Leyland did not threaten anyone and the police did not find evidence of any threats in the dossier.
 
  This is a completely different matter than Hillsborough where people died and family wanted it investigating properly. You seem to be saying that what Brenda is on a par with the Hillsborough cover up and refer to it as a 'case'.
  It was not a case, it was someone's opinions, no crime was committed.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2018, 10:11:35 AM »
Do you think the media considered the possible fragile mental state of Kate McCann before going to print with their outrageous lies?  Where's your anger at those news stories?

What lies exactly?  Is criticism lies?  As was determined in the Supreme Court ruling in 2017, the McCanns, through Kate's book and voluntarily engagements with the press on various stories and interviews, were complicit in bringing criticism to themselves.

  This really for me is about balance. The McCanns, suspects in a high profile crime, had a P.R. spokesman to engage and field the media, help from politicians etc. Opportunity to engage lawyers backed by a large 'fund'.   What did Brenda Leyland have at hand when Brunt decided to make an example of her?