Author Topic: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?  (Read 20359 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2018, 10:15:15 AM »

Can you not see that all those things you describe come under the banner of freedom of speech, except 'threaten' - but Brenda Leyland did not threaten anyone and the police did not find evidence of any threats in the dossier.
 
  This is a completely different matter than Hillsborough where people died and family wanted it investigating properly. You seem to be saying that what Brenda is on a par with the Hillsborough cover up and refer to it as a 'case'.
  It was not a case, it was someone's opinions, no crime was committed.
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2018, 10:16:36 AM »
Quote
In a letter to the campaigners, Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."

https://news.sky.com/story/mccann-trolls-police-wont-take-action-10361261
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 02:09:47 PM by Angelo222 »

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2018, 10:21:06 AM »
28 seconds in

"They are considering a whole file".

« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 02:15:14 PM by Angelo222 »
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2018, 10:22:38 AM »
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?

No offence but I think it's a really poor choice to use Hillsborough to illustrate this principle.

   Hillsborough was a tragedy where many people died and the inquest was a whitewash, the 'Troll Dossier' was a case of members of the public trying to police the free speech of other members of the public who were giving opinions on other members of the public. No comparison IMO.

 The person/s who compiled the dossier should be done for wasting police time imo!

   

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2018, 10:25:18 AM »
Why shouldn't have B Leyland expected the same as Sir C?

Quote
Mr Justice Mann said a suspect in a police investigation "has a reasonable expectation of privacy" and while Sir Cliff being investigated "might be of interest to the gossip-monger", there was not a "genuine public interest" case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44871799
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 02:52:32 PM by Angelo222 »
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Online G-Unit

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2018, 10:33:42 AM »
No I am certainly not saying that what Brenda did is on a par with Hillsborough, I am talking about a princple, the freedom to go to the press with your concerns when the police seem disinterested - it is then up to the media whether they do anything with the information.  If you have a beef it seems to be with Sky, not the person or people who compiled the dossier, unless you think the act of sending information to the media about activities to the press whether technically illegal or not should be outlawed?

Whatever actions people take consequences follow. The McCanns choose to leave their children home alone and then claimed a child was abducted. If the child was abducted it's reasonable to argue that being left alone contributed to her abduction.

The dossier compilers handed their dossier to Sky News. The result was that Sky's actions contributed to the loss of a life. Those actions were triggered by being handed the dossier. Therefore it's reasonable to argue that handing over the dossier contributed to that loss of life.



Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2018, 10:36:48 AM »
What lies exactly?  Is criticism lies?  As was determined in the Supreme Court ruling in 2017, the McCanns, through Kate's book and voluntarily engagements with the press on various stories and interviews, were complicit in bringing criticism to themselves.

  This really for me is about balance. The McCanns, suspects in a high profile crime, had a P.R. spokesman to engage and field the media, help from politicians etc. Opportunity to engage lawyers backed by a large 'fund'.   What did Brenda Leyland have at hand when Brunt decided to make an example of her?
Oh please.  If you're going to pretend the media didn't print outright lies about the McCanns  is there really any point in even continuing this discussion with you?

Once again your beef appears to be with the media (not the dossier compilers), who you seem to believe should treat everyone with kid gloves unless their targets have a high powered lawyer, political support, a bucket of cash and PR firm on hand.  This would no doubt be welcomed by those cowboys and shysters who get doorstepped by programmes like Watchdog, certainly.

 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Lace

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »
   So why not phone her up first?  Don't you think a well known TV journalist turning up with a camera crew at an ordinary member of the publics house might be intimidating?  She was not a TV personality or head of some large organisation or politician with a press office that was used to dealing with the press.

Why not give her the chance to engage some representation or at least advice from family members before plastering her all over the nations media?  Why did Brunt not try and arrange a meeting with and a few of these 'trolls'? You say he didn't know she was ill, so then maybe he should have done better research and not put her in the such a David and Goliath scenario up against the entire press. It was a very bad judgement on his part.

   
 


That is you will have to take up with Sky news.    Sky news give a statement saying that Martin Brunt was just doing his job,  so it seems that is how they work.

How would Martin Brunt know that BL was ill?  What 'research' could he have done beforehand?

On the other hand all those tweeters tweeting abusive threats to the McCann's,  would know that he McCann's were vunerable,  their child was missing how do you think they were feeling?    Some of them were stalking the McCann's saying how they saw them and where they went,  that is so creepy.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2018, 10:44:01 AM »
Oh please.  If you're going to pretend the media didn't print outright lies about the McCanns  is there really any point in even continuing this discussion with you?

Once again your beef appears to be with the media (not the dossier compilers), who you seem to believe should treat everyone with kid gloves unless their targets have a high powered lawyer, political support, a bucket of cash and PR firm on hand.  This would no doubt be welcomed by those cowboys and shysters who get doorstepped by programmes like Watchdog, certainly.

  I'm not pretending anything. The McCanns engaged with the media and have pretty much been able to repeat their version of events unhindered. The media should be balanced, if McCanns can engage the media with their version of events, the media should be able to write critical pieces. Sorting out what percentage were downright lies would be another topic and a bit pointless. I said nothing about kid gloves, I'm talking about fairness and balance.

 I said up thread, I think the dossier compilers should be charged for wasting police time because they were acting as moral police on the subject of free speech.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2018, 10:47:25 AM »
No offence but I think it's a really poor choice to use Hillsborough to illustrate this principle.

   Hillsborough was a tragedy where many people died and the inquest was a whitewash, the 'Troll Dossier' was a case of members of the public trying to police the free speech of other members of the public who were giving opinions on other members of the public. No comparison IMO.

 The person/s who compiled the dossier should be done for wasting police time imo!

 
That's a good idea.  Prosecute anyone who brings their concerns to the police when the concerns don't result in a criminal investigation.  That's really going to encourage people to come forward to the police with vital information about potentially criminal activities.
And please stop wilfully misunderstanding my posts - I was talking about a principle, which can be applied to ALL cases, big and small of members of the general public taking concerns to the media in the absence of police interest.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2018, 10:49:00 AM »
  I'm not pretending anything. The McCanns engaged with the media and have pretty much been able to repeat their version of events unhindered. The media should be balanced, if McCanns can engage the media with their version of events, the media should be able to write critical pieces. Sorting out what percentage were downright lies would be another topic and a bit pointless. I said nothing about kid gloves, I'm talking about fairness and balance.

 I said up thread, I think the dossier compilers should be charged for wasting police time because they were acting as moral police on the subject of free speech.
I think that's utterly ridiculous for the reason I have given above. 

Also, if the McCanns can be criticised by the media, why can't an unmasked internet troll?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2018, 10:49:18 AM »

That is you will have to take up with Sky news.    Sky news give a statement saying that Martin Brunt was just doing his job,  so it seems that is how they work.

How would Martin Brunt know that BL was ill?  What 'research' could he have done beforehand?

On the other hand all those tweeters tweeting abusive threats to the McCann's,  would know that he McCann's were vunerable,  their child was missing how do you think they were feeling?    Some of them were stalking the McCann's saying how they saw them and where they went,  that is so creepy.

How many members of the public have been doorstepped for tweeting by Sky News? I don't think it's typical of how Sky news work.

re. the dossier, the police found no crimes to prosecute, doesn't really matter if it seemed 'creepy' does it?  If someone specifically threatens you, that is a crime which the police will prosecute. 


Offline Gertrude

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2018, 10:58:56 AM »
That's a good idea.  Prosecute anyone who brings their concerns to the police when the concerns don't result in a criminal investigation.  That's really going to encourage people to come forward to the police with vital information about potentially criminal activities.
And please stop wilfully misunderstanding my posts - I was talking about a principle, which can be applied to ALL cases, big and small of members of the general public taking concerns to the media in the absence of police interest.

I'm not wilfully misunderstanding, members of the public being concerned about what other individuals said say online is really not in the same league as using the press to put pressure on the government for inquiries into tragic events. One is  'member of the public vs another member of the public'. One is - 'member of the public vs. large public body'. So I don't see how one principal covers them. It's your insistence only, that the two scenarios should be protected by some kind of principal.

 And the prosecution idea is just my opinion with regards to people who get in a flap over 'nasty' things said on the internet. It should never be a police matter unless specific threats are made.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19949
  • Total likes: 3137
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2018, 11:01:53 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/safety/resources/aztopics/door-stepping.html

It didn't say doorstepping was illegal.  Do the Sky management have a policy as does the BBC. 
Then it is a decision of the editor before it is sent to air. 

Would there be the same uproar if it hadn't been aired?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline barrier

Re: Did Brenda Leyland Have the Right to Due Process ?
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2018, 11:05:26 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/safety/resources/aztopics/door-stepping.html

It didn't say doorstepping was illegal.  Do the Sky management have a policy as does the BBC. 
Then it is a decision of the editor before it is sent to air. 

Would there be the same uproar if it hadn't been aired?



Seeing its the Brenda Leyland thread,then you must be referring to that,hindsight Rob and it can't be answered imo.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?