Is sectarianism a factor in the McCann case?

[barrier]

All of gods children.
Blackmen and white men
Jews and gentiles
Protestants and Catholics.


You know the rest.

[G-Unit]

There's a long way to go but I'm hopeful. I remember meeting a US Army company here on an exchange visit from Texas in the late 1960's. They had to share the NAAFI facilities with their hosts; a Scottish Regiment. The Americans had segregation in their PX then, so they weren't happy if a black man got served before a white man. The Scots saw the NAAFI as theirs so they wanted to be served before anyone else. The atmosphere was tense and scuffles did break out. The Scots won the exercise they went on though; the Yanks said they'd rather go back to Vietnam than go out on exercise with the (unarmed) Scots again.

[Alice Purjorick]

You cynic you!

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score..........

Ah Blue Mink!
More a sort of Blue Monk person meself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40V2lcxM7k

[Brietta]

There's a long way to go but I'm hopeful. I remember meeting a US Army company here on an exchange visit from Texas in the late 1960's. They had to share the NAAFI facilities with their hosts; a Scottish Regiment. The Americans had segregation in their PX then, so they weren't happy if a black man got served before a white man. The Scots saw the NAAFI as theirs so they wanted to be served before anyone else. The atmosphere was tense and scuffles did break out. The Scots won the exercise they went on though; the Yanks said they'd rather go back to Vietnam than go out on exercise with the (unarmed) Scots again.

There is a programme on Channel 4 tonight entitled "Massacre at Ballymurphy" which recalled to mind what I believe was one of the most shameful incidents to take place in modern times on British soil.

I travelled South in a train from Belfast packed with Catholics fleeing to refugee camps in Eire after being burned out of their homes overnight ... people were in their night clothes and slippers carrying all they were able to rescue from their burning homes which for many consisted of their children and their old and infirm.

Protestants living in Catholic areas were warned to decamp and there was a similar exodus of refugees in the opposite direction although many took the choice to burn their own homes on leaving.

That is an example of tribalism and sectarianism which I experienced and although only an observer it was an event which shook me to the core and I firmly believe that insidious sectarianism is a factor in Madeleine's case of which I think many practitioners would fail to recognise in themselves.

[Sunny]

There is a programme on Channel 4 tonight entitled "Massacre at Ballymurphy" which recalled to mind what I believe was one of the most shameful incidents to take place in modern times on British soil.

I travelled South in a train from Belfast packed with Catholics fleeing to refugee camps in Eire after being burned out of their homes overnight ... people were in their night clothes and slippers carrying all they were able to rescue from their burning homes which for many consisted of their children and their old and infirm.

Protestants living in Catholic areas were warned to decamp and there was a similar exodus of refugees in the opposite direction although many took the choice to burn their own homes on leaving.

That is an example of tribalism and sectarianism which I experienced and although only an observer it was an event which shook me to the core and I firmly believe that insidious sectarianism is a factor in Madeleine's case of which I think many practitioners would fail to recognise in themselves.

Oh that is horrible Brietta.   I have just read about the deaths and that it was called Bloody Sunday which I have heard of in relation to the troubles in Northern Ireland.

I fail to see though how it relates to Madeleine's case.  Could you explain in what way you mean sectarianism in regard to Madeleine's disappearance. Is it along religious grounds or something else?

[Brietta]

Oh that is horrible Brietta.   I have just read about the deaths and that it was called Bloody Sunday which I have heard of in relation to the troubles in Northern Ireland.

I fail to see though how it relates to Madeleine's case.  Could you explain in what way you mean sectarianism in regard to Madeleine's disappearance. Is it along religious grounds or something else?

Did you miss the bit "I firmly believe that insidious sectarianism is a factor in Madeleine's case of which I think many practitioners would fail to recognise in themselves." and in my opinion it relates as much to Madeleine's case as does the post to which I replied both of which are anecdotes on sectarianism.

[John]

Did you miss the bit "I firmly believe that insidious sectarianism is a factor in Madeleine's case of which I think many practitioners would fail to recognise in themselves." and in my opinion it relates as much to Madeleine's case as does the post to which I replied both of which are anecdotes on sectarianism.

I initially thought so too but I have found that sceptics and supporters can be members of both sides of the religious divide.

[Brietta]

I initially thought so too but I have found that sceptics and supporters can be members of both sides of the religious divide.

A prime example of what you are saying is Brenda Leyland who if not a catholic was educated at a catholic college

In the west of Scotland where I live sectarianism is a fact of life although thankfully not nearly the all pervasive thing it once was but I think I recognise many of the hidden traits* in some of the internet posting I have seen.

*
For example I have had sight of employment documentation from a shipyard stating "Catholics need not apply" an open secret at the time I think.  But somewhere out there is a man who came from primary education as a wee boy into the 'big' school accompanied and labelled by a record, unbeknown to him or his parents, that "This boy shows anti social tendencies - plays with Catholics" . Thank goodness for computerised records and transparency now but I often wonder if that boy suffered from that evaluation.

So maybe my thinking on this is entirely down to me rather than to anything else; it is interesting though that you initially thought along those lines too, as I believe you are also very familiar with my part of the world.

[G-Unit]

I initially thought so too but I have found that sceptics and supporters can be members of both sides of the religious divide.

Sectarianism is associated with extreme language and a particular outlook, no matter which 'side' people belong to. There is hatred of the other 'side' and an inability or a refusal to see them as equals.

Labels are applied; in Scotland terms such as 'Hun' or 'Orange b*****d', 'Fenian' or 'Tim' are used. The language which has been used to describe 'trolls' is reminiscent of sectarian language in my opinion. They are 'vile' and they 'spew hatred' they are 'inadequate' and are seen as less human than others.

There are those on both sides who 'troll' but there are also those who don't. Grouping them all together and labelling them isn't acceptable. There are intelligent reasonable people on both sides who should be able to disagree without hurling insults at each other in my opinion.

[Erngath]

Sectarianism is not always expressed in vile and abusive language.

Some of the internet posting relating to Madeleine's disappearance has more than a whiff of anti Catholic bias.

I often wonder if Madeleine had been the daughter of a Jewish or Muslim couple would their faith have been mocked  and ridiculed in quite the same manner as has been the case with the McCanns.

[barrier]

I initially thought so too but I have found that sceptics and supporters can be members of both sides of the religious divide.

I'm glad you wrote can be,I have no religious affiliation to any thing,well save money perhaps.

[G-Unit]

Sectarianism is not always expressed in vile and abusive language.

Some of the internet posting relating to Madeleine's disappearance has more than a whiff of anti Catholic bias.

I often wonder if Madeleine had been the daughter of a Jewish or Muslim couple would their faith have been mocked  and ridiculed in quite the same manner as has been the case with the McCanns.

What made you think it was specifically anti Catholic?

[G-Unit]

I'm glad you wrote can be,I have no religious affiliation to any thing,well save money perhaps.

Yes, I'm sure there are people of all faiths and those with none. Which makes sectarian-type language and behaviout even more inappropriate. In my opinion it's been used because some have perceived the differences of opinion as sectarian based when they're nothing of the kind.

[Eleanor]

What made you think it was specifically anti Catholic?

A lot of very unpleasant things were said about Kate's Catholic Faith in the beginning.  I never have understood this, although I suppose I should have done, growing up in London in the 40s and 50s, but it just didn't make sense to me even as a child.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Sectarianism is not always expressed in vile and abusive language.

Some of the internet posting relating to Madeleine's disappearance has more than a whiff of anti Catholic bias.

I often wonder if Madeleine had been the daughter of a Jewish or Muslim couple would their faith have been mocked  and ridiculed in quite the same manner as has been the case with the McCanns.

If they’d been Jewish in my opinion they would have, but in such a case prosecutions might actually have been successfully brought, for hate crimes of an anti semitic nature.