Is sectarianism a factor in the McCann case?

[Eleanor]

I have researched my own ancestry.
It's rather boring, nothing as interesting as yours.
Scots and Irish.
That's it!

My husband has Scottish, Irish, Italian and Norwegian great grand parents.

My paternal grandmother was Italian.  She cried a lot, especially when her daughter in law, my mother died.  I thank her for my love of machinery, although probably a bit second hand.  The Italians are really great mechanics.

Your ancestry sounds very interesting to me.  Did you know that the largest grave at Culloden was Irish?  The Clan MacDonnell,. and The Clan Macdonald in Scotland.  They have the same Clan Chief, The Earl of Antrim, who was and still is a raging Catholic.  Look a bit deeper.

The Norwegian is par for the course since parts of Northern Scotland were probably Norwegian in days of yore.

Probably some sort of an attempt to establish an identity when you don't know enough about who you are.  But the likes of you and me are all Celts, and some Sceptics as well, I do imagine.  All tough old cookies, which might have something to do with why we are all still here.

Tribal?  I expect so.  Some of us might even be related.

[Mr Gray]

In my opinion that's just opinion posted as if it were a fact. Unless you define 'unjust inferences' that could mean anything. Unless you give cites no-one else can judge whether the 'inferences' are unjust or deserved.

I think it's unjust to accuse someone of serious criminal charges when there's no real evidence ti support it

[Eleanor]

There is nothing more galling than people diverting from the topic.

Don't be so boring and trivial.  We are all having a lovely time talking about Me Me Me.  Or at least I am.  John will sort it if he doesn't like it.

[G-Unit]

Perhaps your views, are coloured by your personal circumstances

I thought that's what my post explained. We are all products of nature and nurture. In my case there was something in my nature that led me to reject some of the prejudices I saw or experienced during my nurture.

[Eleanor]

I agree, knowing is understanding. I believe that's the reason why a lot of work is done with children and teenagers in these sectarian areas so they can understand each other as people.

I was adopted. so know little of my ancestors. My adopted mother's family and others in our village disapproved of adoption because they thought the child of a 'loose woman' carried her 'bad blood' which would show itself at some point. I sensed their disapproval but had no idea why until I was older. When I clashed with my mother the subject came up as she pondered if I did indeed have this 'bad blood'.

When I researched my adoption years later I discovered that I was moved less than two miles, so it's quite possible that people in my village knew where I came from and why. My natural mother moved 25 miles away just before I came to the attention of the authorities, but she lived two miles away during the first two years of my life.

I can understand being disliked for no good reason. My reaction has been to make my own mind up about people as individuals. My husband and I made friends with Germans when others allowed prejudice to prevent them doing that. We made friends with the people on the Western Isles when others were prejudiced against them. My children made friends with black children without even thinking about their colour and my grandchildren have Asian friends.

My views on the McCann case have nothing to do with prejudice,class, religion or sectarianism. My views are based on my observations and research, nothing else.

That made me feel a bit sad for you.  Thanks for telling.  I did wonder but would never have asked.  I spent three years in a lovely Children's Home, being loved and cared for by Upper Class Scots.  I don't know what religion they were but we were taken to an Anglo Catholic Church, where I sang in The Choir.  I loved the pomp and circumstance but didn't get much idea about God.  But no one rammed anything down my throat.
My only problem was being sent "Home" again.

I am so sorry that you were made to wonder about such a hurtful and ridiculous thing.

[G-Unit]

My paternal grandmother was Italian.  She cried a lot, especially when her daughter in law, my mother died.  I thank her for my love of machinery, although probably a bit second hand.  The Italians are really great mechanics.

Your ancestry sounds very interesting to me.  Did you know that the largest grave at Culloden was Irish?  The Clan MacDonnell,. and The Clan Macdonald in Scotland.  They have the same Clan Chief, The Earl of Antrim, who was and still is a raging Catholic.  Look a bit deeper.

The Norwegian is par for the course since parts of Northern Scotland were probably Norwegian in days of yore.

Probably some sort of an attempt to establish an identity when you don't know enough about who you are.  But the likes of you and me are all Celts, and some Sceptics as well, I do imagine.  All tough old cookies, which might have something to do with why we are all still here.

Tribal?  I expect so.  Some of us might even be related.

Viking/Scandinavian blood is quite common in Northern England and Scotland. I am very blond with blue eyes and so are my children, despite the fact that their father was dark-haired and brown-eyed. I have thought that might due to the presence of Scandinavian ancestors.  My son has piercing blue eyes like Paul Newman's.

[Eleanor]

Viking/Scandinavian blood is quite common in Northern England and Scotland. I am very blond with blue eyes and so are my children, despite the fact that their father was dark-haired and brown-eyed. I have thought that might due to the presence of Scandinavian ancestors.  My son has piercing blue eyes like Paul Newman's.

Be a Celt, Love.  You sound like one.  And Celts of course, were always at war with each other over something or another.

This Thread has done me a power of good.

[faithlilly]

Be a Celt, Love.  You sound like one.  And Celts of course, were always at war with each other over something or another.

This Thread has done me a power of good.

As us Scots say Eleanor ‘We're all Jock Tamson's Bairns’.

[Eleanor]

As us Scots say Eleanor ‘We're all Jock Tamson's Bairns’.

Gosh, I didn't know that you are a Scot.  So you see, there is hope for us all.

I shall have to Google whatshisname.

[G-Unit]

That made me feel a bit sad for you.  Thanks for telling.  I did wonder but would never have asked.  I spent three years in a lovely Children's Home, being loved and cared for by Upper Class Scots.  I don't know what religion they were but we were taken to an Anglo Catholic Church, where I sang in The Choir.  I loved the pomp and circumstance but didn't get much idea about God.  But no one rammed anything down my throat.
My only problem was being sent "Home" again.

I am so sorry that you were made to wonder about such a hurtful and ridiculous thing.

Thanks, Eleanor. It was difficult but I now see it as an advantage. People with easy childhoods often don't have to puzzle out who they are until later in life. I got it all out of the way during my teens and early 20's, so no mid-life crisis for me lol.

I was hurt at being misunderstood and misjudged but I didn't blame those who did it because they knew no better. They were products of their time, that's all. I'm just glad that I was able to put it behind me and move on. I imagine you, like me, learned to be self-reliant and tough, so it wasn't all negative.

Adopted people are overcome when they have children because that's the first time they see someone who looks like them. They also realise that brains are inherited too. I can understand my children's thought processes because we're related. It takes a lot more effort to understand and love each other in adoptive families.

[Eleanor]

As us Scots say Eleanor ‘We're all Jock Tamson's Bairns’.

Googled it.  Robert Burns again.  But not much wiser.

[slartibartfast]

Don't be so boring and trivial.  We are all having a lovely time talking about Me Me Me.  Or at least I am.  John will sort it if he doesn't like it.

I agree it was an interesting and productive discussion, hence trying to keep it on topic.

[G-Unit]

Be a Celt, Love.  You sound like one.  And Celts of course, were always at war with each other over something or another.

This Thread has done me a power of good.

I have always loved the bagpipes. Does that make me a Celt? When we lived on Benbecula a local lad used to practice his pipes outside in the evenings. I used to lean out of my bedroom window enjoying the view of the sea and the huge sky and listening to him. Happy memories. It's the only place I lived where I cried when I left.

Bonnie Prince Charlie found refuge on Benbecula after Culloden with the Presbyterian community, so no sectarianism in those days it seems. I think they all hated the English more than each other actually. It was from Benbecula that Flora MacDonald rowed the Prince over the sea to Skye. 

[Eleanor]

Thanks, Eleanor. It was difficult but I now see it as an advantage. People with easy childhoods often don't have to puzzle out who they are until later in life. I got it all out of the way during my teens and early 20's, so no mid-life crisis for me lol.

I was hurt at being misunderstood and misjudged but I didn't blame those who did it because they knew no better. They were products of their time, that's all. I'm just glad that I was able to put it behind me and move on. I imagine you, like me, learned to be self-reliant and tough, so it wasn't all negative.

Adopted people are overcome when they have children because that's the first time they see someone who looks like them. They also realise that brains are inherited too. I can understand my children's thought processes because we're related. It takes a lot more effort to understand and love each other in adoptive families.

A bit deep.  I hadn't actually thought about it.  All of my children look like my father, who wasn't much cop emotionally.  But he was very clever, and we all got that bit.
I also got my Italian Grandmother's emotion.  I cry at the drop of a hat and embarrass my sons.  Tough shite.

But you must have some of your mother in you, for which you really should be proud.  Things were so different in those days, and I am more than old enough to remember the shame.

Nurture was never everything, in fact Nature is almost certainly the greatest of all.  I have three sons by different fathers, and I can see the difference.

[Eleanor]

I have always loved the bagpipes. Does that make me a Celt? When we lived on Benbecula a local lad used to practice his pipes outside in the evenings. I used to lean out of my bedroom window enjoying the view of the sea and the huge sky and listening to him. Happy memories. It's the only place I lived where I cried when I left.

Bonnie Prince Charlie found refuge on Benbecula after Culloden with the Presbyterian community, so no sectarianism in those days it seems. I think they all hated the English more than each other actually. It was from Benbecula that Flora MacDonald rowed the Prince over the sea to Skye.

Oh Dear God.  They played The Bag Pipes outside my window every morning when I was in The Wrens in Scotland, and what a joy that was to me.  I suspect you need a Celt ear to love that.

I remain forever a follower of the father of Prince Charlie, although it's a bit late now.

You must know as much about Scottish history as I do, and that desire must have come from somewhere.  I just always felt "At Home" in Scotland.

Although The Bretons are Celts.  Scots, Irish and Welsh.  The Breton Language is a mixture of all of them.