Group timeline after Madeleine's disappearance + Control Risks Emma Knights etc.

[pathfinder73]

Dianne Webster would have been sitting at the table when this was happening.  So she would have missed Amy arriving altogether.

DW got to the apartment 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. Amy was not there before her.

"In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

When DW arrived Kate was alone with the twins. Nobody else was present!

[Sunny]

DW got to the apartment 5 minutes after the alarm was raised. Amy was not there before her.

"In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

When DW arrived Kate was alone with the twins. Nobody else was present!

A waiter saw her sitting alone at  the table. He puts the time (albeit unsure) at earlier than the original alarm.

On the night Madeleine disappeared, everything appeared normal. I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: ?They've left you alone?? She responded more of less with these words: ?No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JERONIMO-SALCEDAS.htm

[Eleanor]

Is there any rhyme or reason to any of this?  None of it makes any sense to me.

So we have several Members suggesting what they think several people did or said.  And apparently without any proof.

Some of this could be Libellous.

[Mr Gray]

The problem with Amy is that she claims to have seen the open window and shutters. No-one else makes that claim, so how to explain it? If the alarm was raised at 10 pm and the woman told the creche workers after 10 pm then Amy couldn't have seen the open window and shutters because Gerry closed the shutters when he entered the apartment after Kate raised the alarm.

If you rely on the translated non verbatim statements things will not make sense as they may well be inaccurate... Kate explains in her book she was that concerned with the, statements they gave new ones in English to Control Risks... I believe... These were then passed to the PJ and I'm sure SY wil have seen these so will have a better idea of what actually happened

[jassi]

Is there any rhyme or reason to any of this?  None of it makes any sense to me.

So we have several Members suggesting what they think several people did or said.  And apparently without any proof.

Some of this could be Libellous.

Which bits are these and who might be libeled ?

[pathfinder73]

A waiter saw her sitting alone at  the table. He puts the time (albeit unsure) at earlier than the original alarm.

On the night Madeleine disappeared, everything appeared normal. I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: ?They've left you alone?? She responded more of less with these words: ?No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JERONIMO-SALCEDAS.htm

The waiter who served them put the alarm at around 9:50pm. Matt said Kate left to check at that time and wasn't gone long. This would put the alarm time before 10pm.

By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by Kate McCann subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

[G-Unit]

The unknown woman arrived at the night creche between 2205 and 2215.
Dianne Webster arrived at 5A at 2205. The shutters were closed. Amy, who must have arrived after Dianne, says they were open.

she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN......she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy";
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm


That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

[Robittybob1]

The PJ have a list of all the cellphone calls that night.  A call to a certain number will be made at a definite time.  The only call that was clearly a cellphone call is the one from Lyndsey to Emma Knights.  Emma says this was at 10:17 PM so work all your calculations from that call please.

If Lyndsey rang Emma at 10:17 whoever informed Lyndsay that call was before that, when and who was that?
Who called Lyndsey?

[Robittybob1]

The unknown woman arrived at the night creche between 2205 and 2215.
Dianne Webster arrived at 5A at 2205. The shutters were closed. Amy, who must have arrived after Dianne, says they were open.

she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN......she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy";
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm


That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

Looking at what Jacqueline says who could be that woman to have been informed of the situation so early that she could be at the creche by 10:05  (22.05) knowing the name of the missing child?

You would also have to consider how much is actual memory and what was added to that memory in the intervening period.

"That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

[pathfinder73]

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy"

She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;

The witness states that she participated in the searches, together with her colleague, Amy, searching various areas of the Ocean Club establishment. She also states that she searched the patio area of the residence where Madeleine stayed with her parents and siblings, and during which, she encountered many individuals inside the apartment but was not able to tell if they were complex employees or friends of the couple. She did not enter the residence in question;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

Now you know where Amy was as well. Not at apartment 5A until later.

[Robittybob1]

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy"

She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;

The witness states that she participated in the searches, together with her colleague, Amy, searching various areas of the Ocean Club establishment. She also states that she searched the patio area of the residence where Madeleine stayed with her parents and siblings, and during which, she encountered many individuals inside the apartment but was not able to tell if they were complex employees or friends of the couple. She did not enter the residence in question;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

Now you know where Amy was as well. Not at apartment 5A until later.
[/quote
Do you really think someone as fluent in speaking as Charlotte Pennington would ever say sentences sounding anything like this "She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared; "

I can barely read it let alone be sure what was being said. 

[Robittybob1]

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy"

She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared;

... Snip ...

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

Now you know where Amy was as well. Not at apartment 5A until later.

So are you trying to tell me it was Lyndsay who informed Amy that Madeleine was missing?  Well if you think that was the case, continue by showing me how Lyndsey knew this in order to tell Amy "that Madeleine had indeed disappeared"?

Who told Lyndsay?  For Emma says she was out in a bar when she was called by Lyndsay at 10:17.  So someone had to contact Lyndsay before that?  Who was it?

If Amy was informed at 10:15 by Lyndsay and the staff had the the missing child procedures underway by 10:20 as Emma says  why would Amy go to apartment and do a further look around the apartment at that late stage?

What does Amy say she does at the apartment?


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
"She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.

In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.

After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there, the outside searches were begun."

I read that as Amy was the staff member who confirmed that Madeleine was missing, and only after that the Missing Child Procedures were commenced.

[Robittybob1]

Where are the replies?  I've been waiting!

[pathfinder73]

On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy.

Amy was at work not at 5A until later.

[G-Unit]

So are you trying to tell me it was Lyndsay who informed Amy that Madeleine was missing?  Well if you think that was the case, continue by showing me how Lyndsey knew this in order to tell Amy "that Madeleine had indeed disappeared"?

Who told Lyndsay?  For Emma says she was out in a bar when she was called by Lyndsay at 10:17.  So someone had to contact Lyndsay before that?  Who was it?

If Amy was informed at 10:15 by Lyndsay and the staff had the the missing child procedures underway by 10:20 as Emma says  why would Amy go to apartment and do a further look around the apartment at that late stage?

What does Amy say she does at the apartment?


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
"She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.

In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.

After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there, the outside searches were begun."

I read that as Amy was the staff member who confirmed that Madeleine was missing, and only after that the Missing Child Procedures were commenced.

According to the group only Fiona Payne went into the apartment with Kate (although Dianne claims to have done so no-one else confirms that). In my opinion Amy should have known Fiona. According to Fiona there were only a couple of children attending the Baby Club, and she went there every morning on her way to the beach. Amy was in charge of the baby club and the Mini Club. It seems strange that she knew Madeleine and her parents but not Fiona.