Author Topic: Who, when were Police called to OC? When did they arrive? incl GNR PJ & Interpol  (Read 2203 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Why is there uncertainty as to when the Police arrived?

John Hill's statement would be a classic:
"The deponent went to the main reception to see if the authorities had been alerted, and fifteen minutes later went to the apartment being used by the McCanns, where he saw that both members of the couple were in a panic and were shouting that the child had been taken. The deponent thinks that the GNR arrived at the scene at about 22.45, however in a conversation several weeks later, he heard someone say, he doesn't remember whom, that they had arrived at about 23.30, but as he was so busy he declared that he had no notion of the passage of time."

Can we determine the exact times?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 02:01:03 AM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Sunny

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 06:59:10 AM »
Why is there uncertainty as to when the Police arrived?

John Hill's statement would be a classic:
"The deponent went to the main reception to see if the authorities had been alerted, and fifteen minutes later went to the apartment being used by the McCanns, where he saw that both members of the couple were in a panic and were shouting that the child had been taken. The deponent thinks that the GNR arrived at the scene at about 22.45, however in a conversation several weeks later, he heard someone say, he doesn't remember whom, that they had arrived at about 23.30, but as he was so busy he declared that he had no notion of the passage of time."

Can we determine the exact times?

Jose Maria Batista Roque one of the first two GNR policemen on the scene,  said they arrived at around 23.00 hours.

On 3rd May he was on duty at the events, he arrived at the OC at about 23.00 accompanied by Officer Costa. They were the first to arrive on the scene.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

I don't know if he is tweedledum or tweedledee though but I believe that gives us a fairly accurate time for first police arrival on the scene.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 10:33:13 AM »
Jose Maria Batista Roque one of the first two GNR policemen on the scene,  said they arrived at around 23.00 hours.

On 3rd May he was on duty at the events, he arrived at the OC at about 23.00 accompanied by Officer Costa. They were the first to arrive on the scene.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm

I don't know if he is tweedledum or tweedledee though but I believe that gives us a fairly accurate time for first police arrival on the scene.
Once Roque had received this phone call he would have felt a little dis-empowered:

"He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ."

I find that strange that this message came via someone else's phone purporting to be from the British Consulate, removing Roque's power.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline barrier

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 10:37:35 AM »
Once Roque had received this phone call he would have felt a little dis-empowered:

"He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ."

I find that strange that this message came via someone else's phone purporting to be from the British Consulate, removing Roque's power.


Unlikely to have his (Roque) mobile number when the OC's would likely to be known or easily found,so maybe not so strange.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 12:01:10 PM »

Unlikely to have his (Roque) mobile number when the OC's would likely to be known or easily found,so maybe not so strange.
What about the usual chain of command?  Do you think it right that the GNR officer should be taking instructions from the British Consulate?
 
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline barrier

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 12:11:20 PM »
What about the usual chain of command?  Do you think it right that the GNR officer should be taking instructions from the British Consulate?


Now you understand where the Brit interference comes into it.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Online ShiningInLuz

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 12:16:32 PM »
What about the usual chain of command?  Do you think it right that the GNR officer should be taking instructions from the British Consulate?
Why on earth do you think that?

By the way, you are off-topic already.
Portelas installed. Plus Gonšalo!  And F1!  And the World Cup!

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 12:27:15 PM »

Now you understand where the Brit interference comes into it.
How would Roque confirm the call had come from the British Consulate.  When I first read that I thought that could easily be a scam.
I hope someone from the GNR confirmed the PJ had agreed to handle the situation.

I was thinking if the GNR are on hand but their authority has been undermined have the police actually arrived?

When did the PJ arrive?  For Emma Knights' version is even worse than John Hill's.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm
"I remember that the police arrived between 00.00 and 00.30, entered by the main door and went to the kitchen with Gerry."

John Hill had the police arriving at 11:30 but here Emma says they could be as late as 12:30 AM.

Who actually arrives at around 12:00 - 12:30?

What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline barrier

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 12:30:11 PM »
Plain clothed or uniformed its still the police.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 12:34:50 PM »
Vitor Manuel Martins  "When questioned he confirms the integrity of the service information drawn up from the stations inquiries carried out in the early morning of 04/05/2007, adding that he arrived on the scene about 30 - 40 minutes after the phone call from the GNR, at about 00.40/00.50.

At the scene, there were already some elements from the GNR and some people walking around the OC grounds, searching for the child."

So that is saying the GNR called in the PJ around midnight.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline barrier

Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 12:36:39 PM »
Vitor Manuel Martins  "When questioned he confirms the integrity of the service information drawn up from the stations inquiries carried out in the early morning of 04/05/2007, adding that he arrived on the scene about 30 - 40 minutes after the phone call from the GNR, at about 00.40/00.50.

At the scene, there were already some elements from the GNR and some people walking around the OC grounds, searching for the child."

So that is saying the GNR called in the PJ around midnight.


GNR uniformed,PJ plain clothes, still the police.
Ah,but I may as well try and catch the wind.

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 12:38:24 PM »

GNR uniformed,PJ plain clothes, still the police.
Tell John Hill and Emma Knights that!
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 07:41:18 PM »
Despite the heading in the PJ files indicating Vitor Martins as a GNR officer the text of the file shows he works for the PJ.  "VITOR MARTINS G.N.R. INSPECTOR"

"Vitor Manuel Martins

Occupation : PJ Officer

He is an inspector with the PJ and currently works at the Porto PJ Directorate."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR_MARTINS.htm

On the night of the disappearance  there appears to be at least two PJ inspectors that turn up at the scene.
Vitor Martins and the photographer "JOAO  BARREIRAS  PJ OFFICER"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm is his statement about the night.

It appears the Vitor and Joao travel to the scene together and this next bit maybe the reason why no one really knows when the police arrive as they did not go to the reception but went directly to the scene as is stated here:
"When they arrived at the scene, which they immediately identified due to the presence of GNR officers, as well as quite a lot of people who were walking around the street searching for the child, they immediately went to the apartment in question, where they found several people, including some GNR officers, as well as the head of the Lagos GNR station."

But at that scene were Kate, Gerry and Silvia Batista, so they are the ones who should be able to confirm the arrival time of the PJ officers.


Were there any others?



What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 08:13:55 PM »
What does Silvia say about the arrival of the PJ?

Silvia appears to be very quiet on this matter unfortunately:
"At a given point, soon after the PJ officers arrived, the parents took the twins from their beds where they were sleeping, taking them up to the apartment on the first floor. At Kate's request the deponent took from the babies' cots the dolls and a blanket also up to the first floor. The cots stayed with only the mattresses [in them]."

I presume from that time on Kate stayed in the Payne's apartment (upstairs), but Silvia went back down with Gerry and Co. in apartment 5A.

What does Gerry say about the arrival of the PJ?
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

  • Moderator
  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15053
  • Total likes: 2297
  • Wisdom and understanding please.
    • The Lord Jesus - search for Madeleine McCann
Re: Who, when were the GNR called to OC? When did they arrive?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 08:50:38 PM »
Gerry McCanns says nothing either about the PJ arrival.

"----- The deponent had had the wrong idea that MATHEW had seen the bedroom external blinds closed when he was there at 21H30, the reason for that was that he thought the disappearance would have been happened between 21h30 and 22h00, it being that, actually, he is [?] convinced that the abduction occurred in the period understood to be between his visit at 21h05 and MATHEW'S visit at 21H30. Only about 01h00 on 4 May 2007 did he learn through RUSSELL that his companion, JANE, at 21h10, could have seen an individual crossing the top of the road with a child in his arms, that may or may not have been his daughter MADELEINE. Asked, he relates that he does not recall to have described exactly the type of pyjamas (colour, designs, etc.) that MADELEINE had worn at the time she disappeared. The photo of his daughter MADELEINE, after having printed several in the reception of the hotel, was delivered to the police (PJ) who were at the location, as well as to other persons who were there."

Are the letters (PJ) in the Portuguese statement or is that inserted by the translator for clarity?


Top of the page is the word "Policia" no (PJ) in brackets so I deduce that (PJ) was added by the translator.

This study is getting pretty weird, and I'm hoping someone else is following it for I need help in sorting out who asked Gerry for the passports was it a GNR officer or the PJ inspector? 

What are you doing to find Madeleine?