Author Topic: Who, when were Police called to OC? When did they arrive? incl GNR PJ & Interpol  (Read 2603 times)

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Online Robittybob1

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Why not?
Portugal is a relative warm country and I'm sure that they wouldn't want bodies hanging around for long before being put into cold storage.
Ocean Club may already have a spot (chest freezer) to put bodies in case of natural death amongst their elderly clients.  Who knows?

I'm going to check up what happens in NZ for I had a feeling lying in state at home for a couple of days is one of the customs.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/tangihanga-death-customs/page-1
"Tangihanga ceremony
For the tangihanga ceremony the body is usually prepared by an undertaker and displayed in an open coffin. A tangi often takes three days and is held on a marae, but with the increase of urbanisation it can be held in a hall or a private home.

The body can remain in a private home for up to 3 days in an open "coffin" or lying on the floor as I have seen.
With the family gathering around the deceased.

"The body is welcomed onto the marae with the whānau pani (the bereaved). Over the course of the tangihanga visitors are welcomed onto the marae and traditional speeches, songs and chants are exchanged"

https://youtu.be/nWRs4_bdfQA  this one is very authentic. 
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Online Robittybob1

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What is there to investigate?

1. Why was laundry being thrown down a stairwell.
2. Who threw it.
3. What safety measures were in place.
4. When was the child missed?
5. When was she found?
6. How did she die?

No, you can't hang onto a body which, in the scenario you describe, would be evidence. The authorities would need to decide if it was indeed laundry which caused the death.

It would depend in which of the blocks the death occurred but I previously suggested block 4.

"1. Why was laundry being thrown down a stairwell."  No other way of getting the laundry down the stairs"
"2. Who threw it."  One of the cleaners in that block.
:3. What safety measures were in place."  You would have to ask them but I've been told it is customary in one enterprise just to yell out "Heads".

"4. When was the child missed?"  Maybe they were doing the same as the McCanns or did they have a child monitor?
"5. When was she found? "I suggested she was found by the laundry man when he was picking up the laundry that evening."
"6. How did she die?"  I'd call it "Accidental asphyxiation"  Any doctor could tell that was the case????   History and location consistent with the story being told.

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Online Robittybob1

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Some years ago there was a post that had the term "accidental asphyxiation" in it (but now on "Search" that post is no longer there (i.e not coming up on search).

It still appears in a quote of my post but the original post is also gone.  I used that term because I had seen the term being used in another post (recall the poster as well).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7503.msg358312#msg358312
 
All from memory of course.
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Online Robittybob1

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Some years ago there was a post that had the term "accidental asphyxiation" in it (but now on "Search" that post is no longer there (i.e not coming up on search).

It still appears in a quote of my post but the original post is also gone.  I used that term because I had seen the term being used in another post (recall the poster as well).

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7503.msg358312#msg358312
 
All from memory of course.

Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. / Re: Wandering Off Topic
on: May 28, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
Quote from: Alice Purjorick on May 28, 2016, 10:25:20 PM
Get a good fire going and death can be by asphyxiation due to the fire using all the O2.
The rest was from other poster:
Yes fire can cause asphyxiation but there are far commoner causes for example accidental strangulation, object inhalation, liquid inhalation.

So my memory was at fault, Alice had used the term asphyxiation and the other person "accidental strangulation" which is another term for "accidental asphyxiation".
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Online Robittybob1

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« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 08:35:30 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Online G-Unit

It would depend in which of the blocks the death occurred but I previously suggested block 4.

"1. Why was laundry being thrown down a stairwell."  No other way of getting the laundry down the stairs"
"2. Who threw it."  One of the cleaners in that block.
:3. What safety measures were in place."  You would have to ask them but I've been told it is customary in one enterprise just to yell out "Heads".

"4. When was the child missed?"  Maybe they were doing the same as the McCanns or did they have a child monitor?
"5. When was she found? "I suggested she was found by the laundry man when he was picking up the laundry that evening."
"6. How did she die?"  I'd call it "Accidental asphyxiation"  Any doctor could tell that was the case????   History and location consistent with the story being told.

All very glib and completely wrong. If such a practice took place it was probably breaking Health and Safety laws. It was dangerous and careless and Mark Warmer would have been in trouble if they allowed it. If they didn't allow it them those doing it would have been in trouble.

'Any doctor' can't decide on the cause of death and issue a death certificate. In case of unexpected deaths the coroner does those things.

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Online Robittybob1

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All very glib and completely wrong. If such a practice took place it was probably breaking Health and Safety laws. It was dangerous and careless and Mark Warmer would have been in trouble if they allowed it. If they didn't allow it them those doing it would have been in trouble.

'Any doctor' can't decide on the cause of death and issue a death certificate. In case of unexpected deaths the coroner does those things.

It was one of the workers who described how the cleaners threw the laundry down the stairs.  Oh yes I do agree it was dangerous, but if the building didn't have laundry chutes what else could they do? 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-witness-saw-weird-1918572  Mario describes how it was done.
"It was 7.30pm to 8pm. When cleaners cleared sheets they dropped them down the hole in the stairs to be collected by me at the bottom."

You say: "Any doctor' can't decide on the cause of death and issue a death certificate. In case of unexpected deaths the coroner does those things." 

When my dad died the undertaker asked the family if we wanted a postmortem.  I wanted to know why he died but the rest of the family seemed to over rule me.  I still think someone murdered him, but we'll never know now.   So it was just put down to natural causes but it was the family that generally agreed with the doctor and the police if they had arrived they accepted it too. 

I think it would have to be driven by the family.  If they felt they had been a bit slack in looking after their child they might just accept the verdict of accident and non-suspicious death and leave it at that.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 10:04:21 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline slartibartfast

Could that be done the next morning?

Usually done after doctor has visited and confirmed death.
It is a lack of contrition that makes a person who has done wrong fixate on being proven blameless.

Online Robittybob1

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Usually done after doctor has visited and confirmed death.
I have had little experience on what is usual.  I know when Dad died they took him from where he died and laid him on a bed, I was able to get a reliever and drive there from another town and then hours passed before an undertaker came and went through this check list of details.   That might have been after more than 6 hours had passed.  His body was in full rigor mortis by this stage and I remember it was a struggle to get him onto the wheeled stretcher.   I don't know if that is unusual or not. 

« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 10:03:27 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

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I have had little experience on what is usual.  I know when Dad died they took him from where he died and laid him on a bed, I was able to get a reliever and drive there from another town and then hours passed before an undertaker came and went through this check list of details.   That might have been after more than 6 hours had passed.  His body was in full rigor mortis by this stage and I remember it was a struggle to get him onto the wheeled stretcher.   I don't know if that is unusual or not.

There are expected deaths; someone who had cancer or heart disease for example. They're simple; the family doctor decides they have died as expected  and issues a death certificate. The family call the undertakers and that's it.

The there are unexpected deaths like my neighbour. He didn't appear one day so we raised the alarm. It turned out he was dead and the ambulance was called. They don't take dead bodies, so the police were next. They record these bodies, look at the scene in case of foul play and take statements. Then the undertaker comes; often some hours later. The Coroner decided that the death was from natural causes and issued the death certificate in due course. His own doctor wasn't called out at all, although he was probably spoken to about my neighbour's health.

In the scenario you are describing the above would apply, but the death clearly wouldn't be from natural causes, it would be accidental death or even manslaughter. Much more police investigation, possibly an autopsy and definitely a Coroner involved.

In New Zealand, by the way, you call the person's doctor for an expected death, 111 for anything else.

 https://www.govt.nz/browse/family-and-whanau/death-and-bereavement/what-you-need-to-do-when-someone-dies/

Hopefully you now realise that there are legal steps to be taken when a death occurs and failing to report a death, or interfering with a body is an offense. Interfering includes moving the body without the police seeing the scene.
 

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Online Robittybob1

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That article certainly gives plenty of options.  One that caught my eye was the "If you're organising the funeral and burial yourself" section.  I had no idea a family could organise their own burial.  (That could happen in some back blocks of NZ where the Maori have their own cemeteries.)

What about this sentence?  "Depending on how the person died, a doctor, nurse or coroner will examine the body and decide what happened."  If someone is 86 just put it down to natural causes.   


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Online G-Unit

That article certainly gives plenty of options.  One that caught my eye was the "If you're organising the funeral and burial yourself" section.  I had no idea a family could organise their own burial.  (That could happen in some back blocks of NZ where the Maori have their own cemeteries.)

What about this sentence?  "Depending on how the person died, a doctor, nurse or coroner will examine the body and decide what happened."  If someone is 86 just put it down to natural causes.

Of course you can organise a burial or cremation, but not many want to. You''d have to buy a coffin, put the body in it, buy a plot and arrange for the grave to be dug or arrange for a part-filled one to be opened, arrange any religious services, hire appropriate transport, carry the coffin yourselves, lower it yourselves and so on. The undertakers do all that for you.

No matter what age a person is the death needs investigating and certifying. Old age doesn't always mean someone died from natural causes.
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