Author Topic: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?  (Read 442 times)

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Offline Sunny

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2018, 10:43:28 AM »
No flash, but some exterior additional light seems to have been used.
From having been there at that front door, I can tell you that it was very very dark in that recessed area by the front door..

THere was a weak lamp almost across the road which shone through the end gap in the trees, but it was not in line to cast its light on the front door recess.   That was in shadow.    The lamp was positioned further down Rua Francisco Gentil Matins, opposite the patio area at the back of the building.

The lighting on the building seems to come from a place where there is no permanent source.
I think that from its position,  the moon would have been unable to shine in that door recess too.


So, it seems that the PJ must have used additional lighting ....?

Not necessarily Sadie.  It can be done by adjusting the settings on the camera eg shutter speed.  A tripod would be required though.
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Offline Davel

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2018, 11:07:44 AM »
It's possible to adjust the ISO on digital... That would make a, big difference
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Sunny

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2018, 11:16:37 AM »
It's possible to adjust the ISO on digital... That would make a, big difference

That is correct Davel.  No need for any external lighting IMO.
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2018, 11:56:17 AM »
From the link

I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat. She has also given me photographs of a man who has been on the boat. This is not the man the woman had in her vision.

This matter is very important to her and she is very pleased that we are making enq's into the matter. Once the enq's have been completed can we please let her know the results.


The Daily Mail

Kate went to Lagos marina, a few miles along the coast from Praia da Luz where her daughter vanished on May 3, 2007, and photographed the boat and the man on board, a hand-written note in police files reveals.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/119393/Maddy-s-mother-photographed-boat-she-believes-snatched-girl

Of course whether Kate photographed it herself in a way is immaterial.  The point is the photographs were provided by the McCanns and put into evidence.
So true.  I must have not appreciated what that article had said.  Thanks.
Previous thread on the topic of going to Lagos Marina http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9175.msg447249#msg447249
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:17:56 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2018, 11:57:46 AM »
Kate may not have taken the photos, but she handed them to the British police officer;


I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BOATS_VISION.htm
Does that constitute searching for Madeleine?   I'd tend to "yes".
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2018, 12:08:50 PM »
No flash, but some exterior additional light seems to have been used.
From having been there at that front door, I can tell you that it was very very dark in that recessed area by the front door..

THere was a weak lamp almost across the road which shone through the end gap in the trees, but it was not in line to cast its light on the front door recess.   That was in shadow.    The lamp was positioned further down Rua Francisco Gentil Matins, opposite the patio area at the back of the building.

The lighting on the building seems to come from a place where there is no permanent source.
I think that from its position,  the moon would have been unable to shine in that door recess too.


So, it seems that the PJ must have used additional lighting ....?
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:11:24 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Sunny

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2018, 12:17:52 PM »
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.

I don't believe so Rob.  There is no glare.

It was not a clear night either so no moon.

When questioned, he says that it was a fresh night with some breeze. It was not a clear night, nor was it very dark. Referring to the light conditions around the apartment, he says they were very dark, and thinks that even on a bright night there would always be little light around the apartment because of the trees and lack of street lights.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:21:17 PM by Sunny »
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Offline Montclair

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2018, 01:02:43 PM »
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.

Offline Davel

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2018, 01:36:37 PM »
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.
the video of Joao's confession was not admissable yet it was allowed . The PJ lied about the torture claiming Leonora fell down the stairs...torture was proven... The court accepted as aproven fact joannas blood was found in the fridge yet no dna test was carried out......why are you bringing up cipriano
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 02:16:22 PM by Davel »
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Brietta

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2018, 04:02:51 PM »
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.

A quick internet search shows that digital cameras are used almost exclusively by law enforcement agencies worldwide with film being used less and less.
For example from NPIA dated 2007
PRACTICE ADVICE ON
POLICE USE OF
DIGITAL IMAGES
Snip
2.2.6 CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS
Digital crime scene photography at capture stage is similar to conventional film techniques except that additional metadata is captured with the image and in some cases the compressed image may be unsuitable for evidential purposes.

Crime scene photography includes any image taken at the scene, for example, capture of the scene itself using video, thereby allowing the viewer to see damage to property or non-intimate injuries to a victim.

Considerations at capture stage include:
• Ensuring equipment generates correct metadata;
• Using an appropriate file format to capture different scenes without compromising the image quality;
• Obtaining advice from specialist photography, where appropriate;
• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene.

See National Training Centre Initial Crime Scene Investigator’s Course for further information on capture in crime scene photography
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/police-use-of-digital-images-2007.pdf



I'm sure that the Portuguese police will have kept up with developments to assist in their work ... the following is from Brazil but there is nothing to suggest that the crime scene photographs in Madeleine's case were not taken with a digital camera,which is highly probable in my opinion.

Snip
Forensic photography has evolved, using digital cameras, sophisticated printers, special papers, as well as all the technology that modern computing provides.

It is true that a short time ago there was a certain fear of using digital photos as a means of producing expert proof, due to the quality of the photos and also the authenticity of the photos, as it was feared that the photos could be altered , we now know that this is also possible in photos taken by the analogue system, but this resistance has already been overcome by the credibility and quality of the images obtained by digital means.

Knowing that the authenticity of the photos should always be preserved, many experts are keen to keep the original record of the photos obtained inside the camera or the memory card, because in this way the photos are untouchable and preserved against possible tampering.

By opting for the use of digital cameras, experts have gained in image quality, time to get the shot, (because it is no longer necessary to send the films to be revealed), and with the storage facilities provided by digital media.

In order to perform a good forensic photography the Expert must first be concerned about the type of camera that will use because the choice of the appropriate equipment will be fundamental to the success of obtaining proof.

http://www.ambito-juridico.com.br/site/index.php?n_link=revista_artigos_leitura&artigo_id=4000


The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline sadie

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2018, 05:47:57 PM »
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.

Now, I always thought that the moon in the northern hemispere rose in the east and travelled west via the south.  If I am correct then the moon would not have illuminated the door recess.  If you are right, Rob, then it might well have done *IF^ it had risen above the heads of the trees in Rua Agostinho da Silva by that time.

I think that had it been a flash, there would likely have  been harsh shadows.

ETA:  IIRC it was one night off a full moon on the 3rd.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 05:50:06 PM by sadie »

Offline sadie

Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2018, 05:57:58 PM »
I don't believe so Rob.  There is no glare.

It was not a clear night either so no moon.

When questioned, he says that it was a fresh night with some breeze. It was not a clear night, nor was it very dark. Referring to the light conditions around the apartment, he says they were very dark, and thinks that even on a bright night there would always be little light around the apartment because of the trees and lack of street lights.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Glad to see a member of the PJ confirming my posts on just how dark it truly was.  I must have missed that before.  Thankyou Joao and thank you Sunny for highlighting it.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2018, 07:07:03 PM »
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.
So they did use digital cameras in one case you know about.  The fact that you can immediately review whether a picture has been taken is beyond useful.  Gone are the days of over exposure or double take.   Can pics be manipulated at the camera memory card level?

One thing that is really lacking in the PJ files is dates  and times and original notes.  In my profession we were instructed to have unbroken chain of evidence, none of this forgetting what time it was, time to the minute was part of the record, initials of the person taking the notes, and the notes kept even after the notes were transferred to computer.  OK it was hard to do 100% correctly but that was the ultimate.

The cameras we used were Cannon mirror less, a cheap digital with small memory card, so you  were limited to how many photos one could take.

My son is now into photogrammetry and doing amazing things so I'm getting excited with the idea of capturing a crime scene in virtual reality where one could re-enter the crime scene at any time in the future.  But who would take the photos?

"photogrammetry

noun
the use of photography in surveying and mapping to ascertain measurements between objects."

https://store.steampowered.com/app/861400/Nefertari_Journey_to_Eternity/

http://www.realityvirtual.co/

I could imagine crime in the future being solved with the crime scene being down loaded onto the internet and thousands of eyes and minds examining the scene for details  that just a single inspector would miss.

"Virtual reality for crime scene visualization"  it looks like it is being done well at least thought about.

"Abstract
The Swedish National Forensic Centre has been monitoring the development of 3D sensing technology for 10 years and has recently started using 3D laser scanning for measuring Swedish crime scenes. Once a crime scene is documented in 3D it is also possible to visualize it in 3D, which opens the possibility to use Virtual Reality (VR). VR have clear advantages over other visualization methods since it enables a person to virtually visit the scene of the crime in a natural manner, i.e. by means of physically walking around in the scene. One key aspect of VR is that it enables the user to understand the dimensions of the scene in a natural way. The demands for VR of the Swedish Police have been investigated and summed up to five key design guidelines. We also give an insight in which steps of the crime fighting process that will benefit most from VR. Real time streaming 360 cameras can also be used as a data source enabling a person to visit a scene without physically traveling there. We believe that this technology can deliver immersive VR experiences that can be very useful within our field."
Don't ask me how it is done but I know the cameras are really expensive.








« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 07:15:37 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2018, 07:35:15 PM »
Now, I always thought that the moon in the northern hemispere rose in the east and travelled west via the south.  If I am correct then the moon would not have illuminated the door recess.  If you are right, Rob, then it might well have done *IF^ it had risen above the heads of the trees in Rua Agostinho da Silva by that time.

I think that had it been a flash, there would likely have  been harsh shadows.

ETA:  IIRC it was one night off a full moon on the 3rd.
I don't take many photos myself but once or twice I used a flash outside and it seemed pitiful.  It takes a lot of light to light up an outside scene. 
Why I became convinced a flash was used on the outside photos was that there are two walls lit up more than two others.  (I'm not sure how to describe it but I'll try.)

See the wall with the bucket and one square and the wall with the 3 squares, these are lit up more than the two walls to the left and right of those two.   That could only happen from a close-by source of light for the two darker walls are at 90 degrees to each other.  So the illumination is not the moon or a distant street light IMO but I'm open to correction.



« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 07:42:13 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2018, 08:44:00 PM »
snip.

Considerations at capture stage include:
• Ensuring equipment generates correct metadata;
• Using an appropriate file format to capture different scenes without compromising the image quality;
• Obtaining advice from specialist photography, where appropriate;
• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene.

snip

Some of this is vital but easily missed without the right training and preparation.  If you are sent to a crime scene and your camera battery is flat, the date and time has not been loaded into the camera,
Knowing whether there is the need for a specialist.  (you can't really wait for a specialist to turn up but how are you going to get real experts in photography and in future photogrammetry?

• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene  (is that keeping a record of what is done)?
What are you doing to find Madeleine?