Author Topic: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?  (Read 5962 times)

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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #210 on: October 14, 2018, 01:50:43 AM »
NOT the same.  Keela is trained to alert ONLY to blood and nothing but blood. 

Therefore, as recorded in the files, both dogs - Eddie and Keela - alerted to blood which forensics determined had nothing at all to do with any member of the McCann family.

The dogs used by the Institute of Canine Forensics ... Piper and Annie, both trained to find human remains, independent of each other "lay down around the same spot in the ruins, alerting their handlers they smelled human remains."
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7579010-181/among-the-ashes-search-dogs?artslide=0&sba=AAS

the dogs are all part of the investigaiton and could form part of any circumstancial evidence suggesting parental involvment.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 03:31:21 PM by Angelo222 »
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #211 on: October 14, 2018, 07:20:28 AM »
the dogs are all part of the investigaiton and could form part of any circumstancial evidence suggesting parental involvment.
The thing that concerns me is there was nothing that could be found that would really corroborate the cadaver dog alerts.

DNA - Madeleine had been there so even the finding of Madeleine's DNA would not prove she had been dead in the apartment.
The PJ could only be hoping for a confession. 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 03:30:58 PM by Angelo222 »
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Offline barrier

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #212 on: October 14, 2018, 08:55:48 AM »
The PJ could only be hoping for a confession.

Snip, along with SY now.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline xtina

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #213 on: October 14, 2018, 04:15:29 PM »
So do you think there's a bottomless pit in Portugal as far as funding this case goes- how many years in total have PJ been investigating?  It must amount to a pretty penny, yet funnily enough I also don't hear much criticism ffrom the Portuguese about the amount being spent on one foreign missing child.  Could it possibly be that it's because they're actually not spending very much time or money trying to crack this case at all?


Or could it possibly be ....

they know they know there is only one way to crack the case....

think this is a good example of what need's doing imo.....


I'll leave this question: if the much acclaimed effort of the English police to find Maddie fails to produce results, despite the massive amount already invested, wouldn’t it be wise to reopen the investigation in Portugal, placing the homicide hypothesis again on the table?

in Correio da Manhă, May 1, 2017
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #214 on: October 14, 2018, 04:17:05 PM »

Or could it possibly be ....

they know they know there is only one way to crack the case....

think this is a good example of what need's doing imo.....


I'll leave this question: if the much acclaimed effort of the English police to find Maddie fails to produce results, despite the massive amount already invested, wouldn’t it be wise to reopen the investigation in Portugal, placing the homicide hypothesis again on the table?

in Correio da Manhă, May 1, 2017
What are they waiting for then, if they know how to crack the case?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Eleanor

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #215 on: October 14, 2018, 04:18:34 PM »
What are they waiting for then, if they know how to crack the case?

Proof?  Evidence even?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #216 on: October 14, 2018, 04:24:06 PM »
Proof?  Evidence even?
Perhaps that is the PJ's strategy then.  Wait for some proof or evidence to drop in their laps.  No hurry, no worries. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline xtina

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #217 on: October 14, 2018, 04:24:49 PM »
What are they waiting for then, if they know how to crack the case?


Probably waiting to see what SY come up with ....not a lot as yet is there....

IMO most of the majority of people ...would all say ....

 place the homicide hypothesis again on the table?


Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #218 on: October 14, 2018, 04:27:52 PM »

Probably waiting to see what SY come up with ....not a lot as yet is there....

IMO most of the majority of people ...would all say ....

 place the homicide hypothesis again on the table?

What is the homicide hypothesis?  Do tell.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline xtina

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #219 on: October 14, 2018, 04:35:54 PM »
What is the homicide hypothesis?  Do tell.


Oh lol

well obviously.........the maddie wasn't abducted one......
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

Offline Brietta

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #220 on: October 14, 2018, 04:40:35 PM »
I have no idea why the PJ came to the conclusion that Madeleine had died in the holiday apartment with her parents responsible either to a greater or a lesser degree and then somehow disposed of her a if she was yesterday's rubbish, before they had taken the time to eliminate all other possibilities for which there was real evidence.

Joana Cipriano had vanished without trace from a village in close proximity to Luz and as far as I know no connection to that disappearance with Madeleine's was thought about by the investigators.
Who in my opinion were in a sticky wicket as far as Joana's disappearance was concerned ... the books had been written ... the 'murder' solved ... the mother doing the time ... reputations made as 'crimebusters' too.  So it might have been awkward for the same investigators when another little girl vanished in the same area.

Then when Scotland Yard discovered that seven abuse cases of minors had occurred ... later amended to many more ... it blew a gaping hole in any case against anyone until these assaults were ruled out of having any connection either to Joana or Madeleine's cases.
Of course being a murder victim ruled Joana out as a person in her own right ... the PJ had 'proved' she had died at the hands of her mother.
Just as in my opinion Madeleine was set to be ruled another dead non person who had a homicidal maniac for a mother, the ground being primed by pejorative illegally sourced leaks supposedly of her mother's diary.

In my opinion the Portuguese police jumped the gun on deciding Madeleine's death without properly investigating all other avenues ... I doubt there is another law enforcement agency who would have ignored a spate of assaults on minors some of whom may have shared Joana and Madeleine's profile ... when a minor went missing on their watch.

Yet it took the advent of Scotland Yard to take note of this elementary aspect of policing.


British investigate 7 sexual abuse before Maddie disappears
Betting in other cases, in the Luz zone, in 2007.

By Miguel Curado | 04.10.17

Snip
When it appeared to be definitely closed, the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann in 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, revived at the hands of the English Met Metropolitan Police - and with a well-defined course. The investigators focus on seven situations of sexual abuse to minors reported at the time, in that area, and that came to the time deserving the attention of the Portuguese police, namely the GNR, but without any results.
______________________________________________________________________________________
GNR, at the time of its receipt and the six other complaints, communicated them to the Judiciary Police. It was possible to conclude that at least five situations will have occurred before the disappearance of the child. However, none of the situations came to be used as a line of investigation. Now, ten years later, the Met wants to revive this scenario even because, according to British media reports yesterday, British investigators are in possession of a list of 38 sex offenders who were identified, at the time of the disappearance of the child, in the vicinity of Praia da Luz.

http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ingleses-investigam-7-abusos-sexuais-antes-de-maddie-desaparecer?v=cb

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #221 on: October 14, 2018, 04:44:51 PM »

Oh lol

well obviously.........the maddie wasn't abducted one......
Oh LOL.  How funny. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline xtina

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #222 on: October 14, 2018, 04:51:07 PM »
I have no idea why the PJ came to the conclusion that Madeleine had died in the holiday apartment with her parents responsible either to a greater or a lesser degree and then somehow disposed of her a if she was yesterday's rubbish, before they had taken the time to eliminate all other possibilities for which there was real evidence.

Joana Cipriano had vanished without trace from a village in close proximity to Luz and as far as I know no connection to that disappearance with Madeleine's was thought about by the investigators.
Who in my opinion were in a sticky wicket as far as Joana's disappearance was concerned ... the books had been written ... the 'murder' solved ... the mother doing the time ... reputations made as 'crimebusters' too.  So it might have been awkward for the same investigators when another little girl vanished in the same area.

Then when Scotland Yard discovered that seven abuse cases of minors had occurred ... later amended to many more ... it blew a gaping hole in any case against anyone until these assaults were ruled out of having any connection either to Joana or Madeleine's cases.
Of course being a murder victim ruled Joana out as a person in her own right ... the PJ had 'proved' she had died at the hands of her mother.
Just as in my opinion Madeleine was set to be ruled another dead non person who had a homicidal maniac for a mother, the ground being primed by pejorative illegally sourced leaks supposedly of her mother's diary.

In my opinion the Portuguese police jumped the gun on deciding Madeleine's death without properly investigating all other avenues ... I doubt there is another law enforcement agency who would have ignored a spate of assaults on minors some of whom may have shared Joana and Madeleine's profile ... when a minor went missing on their watch.

Yet it took the advent of Scotland Yard to take note of this elementary aspect of policing.


British investigate 7 sexual abuse before Maddie disappears
Betting in other cases, in the Luz zone, in 2007.

By Miguel Curado | 04.10.17

Snip
When it appeared to be definitely closed, the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie McCann in 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, revived at the hands of the English Met Metropolitan Police - and with a well-defined course. The investigators focus on seven situations of sexual abuse to minors reported at the time, in that area, and that came to the time deserving the attention of the Portuguese police, namely the GNR, but without any results.
______________________________________________________________________________________
GNR, at the time of its receipt and the six other complaints, communicated them to the Judiciary Police. It was possible to conclude that at least five situations will have occurred before the disappearance of the child. However, none of the situations came to be used as a line of investigation. Now, ten years later, the Met wants to revive this scenario even because, according to British media reports yesterday, British investigators are in possession of a list of 38 sex offenders who were identified, at the time of the disappearance of the child, in the vicinity of Praia da Luz.

http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/ingleses-investigam-7-abusos-sexuais-antes-de-maddie-desaparecer?v=cb


In my opinion the Portuguese police jumped the gun on deciding Madeleine's death without properly investigating all other avenues ...

 now..... all other avenues have been pursued .....

costing 12 million.....and has took 7 years...

Still come up with nothing new..not a thing

.so imo PJ could have been on the right track all along....
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.

Offline Brietta

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #223 on: October 14, 2018, 05:15:49 PM »

In my opinion the Portuguese police jumped the gun on deciding Madeleine's death without properly investigating all other avenues ...

 now..... all other avenues have been pursued .....

costing 12 million.....and has took 7 years...

Still come up with nothing new..not a thing

.so imo PJ could have been on the right track all along....

Is that how it is done in Portugal when working on a child's disappearance?  Destroy the mother's reputation and charge her with murder instead of checking out all cases where entry has been made to children's bedrooms by a predator as part of the investigation of the case of a child who has vanished from her bedroom?

Somehow I don't think that is going to catch on where proper policing is concerned.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline xtina

Re: Was the PJ right to decide that Madeleine had died so early on?
« Reply #224 on: October 14, 2018, 06:02:22 PM »
Is that how it is done in Portugal when working on a child's disappearance?  Destroy the mother's reputation and charge her with murder instead of checking out all cases where entry has been made to children's bedrooms by a predator as part of the investigation of the case of a child who has vanished from her bedroom?

Somehow I don't think that is going to catch on where proper policing is concerned.


Well according to your way of thinking.......your words not mine...

apart from kmcc destroyed her own reputation....imo an spent 11 years trying to rebuild it
Always listen to both sides of the story before you judge.

The first storyteller you will always find has modified the story, for there benefit BE WISE.