Author Topic: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron  (Read 1289 times)

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Offline Sunny

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2018, 10:48:47 PM »
Not sure about that one...but still 197 to go

Martin Grime didn't say Eddie had found 200 bodies Davel. You said only 1 you are incorrect.

So far Eddie has found 2 more than you said so 300% of your initial tally.
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Offline pathfinder73

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2018, 11:20:22 PM »
Yes...I thought there was another one after pdl...so it's two

Amaral claimed the dogs had solved 200 cases...but 2 is closer to the truth

Amanda Edwards on a building site. Shane Collier. In most crimes the body is moved so it's up to the investigators to locate new areas for the dogs to search. If they select the wrong place then no body will be found!

A no-fly zone was put in place and members of the Major Crime and Missing Persons Bureau in Hampshire, who played an important role in the Soham murder investigation, and a sniffer dog from South Yorkshire police, were brought in.

Shortly after 1pm the dog was reported to have started barking, giving rise to speculation that a body had been found.

Ms Edwards' body was removed from the building site last night.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/apr/17/ukcrime

In March, 2002, they played a major role in locating the body of Barnsley murder victim 21-year-old Shane Collier. Even though his body had been cut up into parts and buried five months earlier, the dogs found them in a remote woodland in Cumbria. The South Yorkshire police dogs Frankie and Eddie and their handlers now work as part of the special search unit operation by the National Crime and Operations Faculty.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/out-and-about/dogs-find-body-parts-of-murder-victim-1-320914
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:34:27 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2018, 11:56:51 PM »
Amanda Edwards on a building site. Shane Collier. In most crimes the body is moved so it's up to the investigators to locate new areas for the dogs to search. If they select the wrong place then no body will be found!

A no-fly zone was put in place and members of the Major Crime and Missing Persons Bureau in Hampshire, who played an important role in the Soham murder investigation, and a sniffer dog from South Yorkshire police, were brought in.

Shortly after 1pm the dog was reported to have started barking, giving rise to speculation that a body had been found.

Ms Edwards' body was removed from the building site last night.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/apr/17/ukcrime

In March, 2002, they played a major role in locating the body of Barnsley murder victim 21-year-old Shane Collier. Even though his body had been cut up into parts and buried five months earlier, the dogs found them in a remote woodland in Cumbria. The South Yorkshire police dogs Frankie and Eddie and their handlers now work as part of the special search unit operation by the National Crime and Operations Faculty.

https://www.thestar.co.uk/whats-on/out-and-about/dogs-find-body-parts-of-murder-victim-1-320914

And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Sunny

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 07:26:49 AM »
And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.

Martin Grime was so well thought of he travelled to the USA in September 2007 to work on the Theresa Parker case.

We also saw video played in the courtroom to demonstrate how another dog, Eddie, found a sample pair of pants hidden in the Walker County Jail that was perfumed with a cadaver scent. Eddie is an English Springer Spaniel belonging to Martin Grime, a world-renown forensic K-9 expert based in the United Kingdom.

Grime testified he was paid $450 a day, plus travel and living expenses, by the FBI to search some areas in Walker County in connection with Teresa Parker's disappearance.

During a visit to Parker's home back in September 2007 Grime said he and Eddie sniffed around their garage.

"He immediately gave a positive bark response within the garage between a truck parked to the left of the entrance and a boat parked to the right," Grime said.

Grime added Eddie did not seem interested in the vehicles but in a scent that was wafting in the air, based on the way the dog held his nose upward. Grime said Eddie then "hit" on an abandoned house next door. Testimony shows that house was never repaired after a fire gutted the inside and killed a child several years ago.


http://www.scentevidence.com/2009/07/

I
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2018, 07:27:12 AM »
And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.
In both those examples the dog located actual remains.  In this case it did not.  It is therefore not surprising that members of Operation Grange have left the possibility of Madeleine being alive after leaving the apartment on the table.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2018, 07:45:33 AM »
And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.
And sceptics still don't realise the value of the dogs is in the evidence they recover...no evidence ..no value
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Offline barrier

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2018, 08:24:20 AM »
And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.

Strange innit.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Online Davel

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2018, 08:47:24 AM »
Strange innit.
Not strange on the basis the alerts have no value or reliability as evidence according to the experts
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 08:53:16 AM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Eleanor

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2018, 09:24:54 AM »
And supporters think that OG and the PJ will disregard the alerts of this highly efficient cadaver dog.

Highly confused  Victim Recovery Dog.

Offline Eleanor

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2018, 09:26:02 AM »
In both those examples the dog located actual remains.  In this case it did not.  It is therefore not surprising that members of Operation Grange have left the possibility of Madeleine being alive after leaving the apartment on the table.

Any dog can find a cadaver if there is one.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2018, 09:56:09 AM »
And sceptics still don't realise the value of the dogs is in the evidence they recover...no evidence ..no value

State v Bailey, an American case but nonetheless pertinent.

‘ the evidence showed the cadaver dog was trained to detect human cadaver scent, not simply to find dead human bodies. ‘
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2018, 09:56:29 AM »
Not strange on the basis the alerts have no value or reliability as evidence according to the experts

Can you cite the experts statement about value.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Online Davel

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2018, 09:58:40 AM »
Can you cite the experts statement about value.
Grime said no evidential reliability and Harrison no evidential value... Harrison went further and said no inference s could be drawn from the alerts


 of the dogs (see appendix 4). However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.




So Harrison says no inferences can be drawn without supporting PHYSICAL evidence
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 10:03:45 AM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Davel

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2018, 10:05:29 AM »
 stamps.

After the conclusion of the searches, a meeting in the Portimao offices of the PJ took place in the cabinet of Goncalo AMARAL and those present included Guilermino ENCARNACO, an official representative from the Leicestershire police, Martin GRIME and myself. During the meeting were exhibited videos with the details of search activities including the sniffer dogs lead by Martin GRIME. GRIME commented on the actions of the dogs and added that no confirmed evidence or information could be taken from the alerts by the dogs but needed to be confirmed with physical evidence.
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline slartibartfast

Re: In Cold Blood Documentary: The Murder of Attracta Harron
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2018, 10:09:22 AM »
Grime said no evidential reliability and Harrison no evidential value... Harrison went further and said no inference s could be drawn from the alerts


 of the dogs (see appendix 4). However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.




So Harrison says no inferences can be drawn without supporting PHYSICAL evidence

So Harrison the none expert says value, thanks.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.