Sunny's request for cites

[misty]

If you think about it logically, there was much air & surface disturbance in the immediate aftermath of Madeleines disappearance. Both front & rear doors were being opened & closed, police officers who'd attended other crime scenes were on site - notwithstanding the 4 re-lets of the apartment before the dogs arrived in August. Cleaning took place.
Given that Grime (mistakenly) thought the apartment had been sealed off since 4th May, how much did that lack of information contribute to his "scent pooling" remark when no obvious forensics were in situ?

All IMO etc etc.

[Sunny]

If you think about it logically, there was much air & surface disturbance in the immediate aftermath of Madeleines disappearance. Both front & rear doors were being opened & closed, police officers who'd attended other crime scenes were on site - notwithstanding the 4 re-lets of the apartment before the dogs arrived in August. Cleaning took place.
Given that Grime (mistakenly) thought the apartment had been sealed off since 4th May, how much did that lack of information contribute to his "scent pooling" remark when no obvious forensics were in situ?

All IMO etc etc.

Do you know whether Martin Grime thought the apartment had been empty since 4th May 2007, I can't find him saying a length of time that 5a had been undisturbed.     How long does a room have to be disturbed before cadaver scent "pools" misty, do you know?       

[misty]

Do you know whether Martin Grime thought the apartment had been empty since 4th May 2007, I can't find him saying a length of time that 5a had been undisturbed.     How long does a room have to be disturbed before cadaver scent "pools" misty, do you know?       

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
*snipped*
"What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area."

I think you need to ask the question as to how long a very recently deceased cadaver needs to be in a particular place before it produces enough molecular odour to remain detectable 3 months later in the bedroom, lounge &  garden - unseen & within a limited time_frame. Any pooling would depend on the concentration of odour from the original source.

All IMO etc etc.

[Sunny]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
*snipped*
"What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area."

I think you need to ask the question as to how long a very recently deceased cadaver needs to be in a particular place before it produces enough molecular odour to remain detectable 3 months later in the bedroom, lounge &  garden - unseen & within a limited time_frame. Any pooling would depend on the concentration of odour from the original source.

All IMO etc etc.

So he doesn't say it was empty since 4th May simply that it was "closed down".    I believe 3 months is a short time for cadaver odour to remain if they some of these dogs can find bodies of people who were buried hundreds of years ago.  With respect to scent pooling I am not sure it depends upon the concentration although clearly the more concentrated the odour in one place  the larger the scent pool in that same place.

[ShiningInLuz]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
*snipped*
"What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area."

I think you need to ask the question as to how long a very recently deceased cadaver needs to be in a particular place before it produces enough molecular odour to remain detectable 3 months later in the bedroom, lounge &  garden - unseen & within a limited time_frame. Any pooling would depend on the concentration of odour from the original source.

All IMO etc etc.

And if there was still a cadaver scent source in 5A?

[misty]

So he doesn't say it was empty since 4th May simply that it was "closed down".    I believe 3 months is a short time for cadaver odour to remain if they some of these dogs can find bodies of people who were buried hundreds of years ago.  With respect to scent pooling I am not sure it depends upon the concentration although clearly the more concentrated the odour in one place  the larger the scent pool in that same place.

I would expect a cadaver dog to be able to locate a body buried years ago, under the right conditions. The clue there is that there would be actual remains to find. I remember reading somewhere that a few centuries ago Luz was the scene of many beach battles between locals & invaders from the sea (will have to find the exact history again). Where were the dead buried? OC was only built in the 1990's.
What effort did the PJ make to uncover the source of any scent contained in the bedroom of 5A? Did they remove the wardrobe panels, the floor tiles, check the base of the divan, back of the headboard? There is no evidence that scent was not already in the apartment before the McCanns arrived in Luz.

[Sunny]

I would expect a cadaver dog to be able to locate a body buried years ago, under the right conditions. The clue there is that there would be actual remains to find. I remember reading somewhere that a few centuries ago Luz was the scene of many beach battles between locals & invaders from the sea (will have to find the exact history again). Where were the dead buried? OC was only built in the 1990's.
What effort did the PJ make to uncover the source of any scent contained in the bedroom of 5A? Did they remove the wardrobe panels, the floor tiles, check the base of the divan, back of the headboard? There is no evidence that scent was not already in the apartment before the McCanns arrived in Luz.

If there was a burial ground under the apartment then the dogs would alert in the adjoining apartments I would think but that is an interesting thought though.  As regards the rest of your post I agree it would probably be better if the had removed wardrobe doors etc and I have seen nothing to say that they did. 

I wonder just how long does cadaver odour lasts, I have read that dogs will alert to bones from hundreds of years which I do find amazing.

[misty]

If there was a burial ground under the apartment then the dogs would alert in the adjoining apartments I would think but that is an interesting thought though.  As regards the rest of your post I agree it would probably be better if the had removed wardrobe doors etc and I have seen nothing to say that they did. 

I wonder just how long does cadaver odour lasts, I have read that dogs will alert to bones from hundreds of years which I do find amazing.

The dogs wouldn't necessarily alert in the adjoining apartments as it would depend where the source was strongest. I didn't see either dog go on the patios or in the gardens of 5B & 5D on the Luz dog video.
I guess one day the scientists will discover which unique protein/mineral/whatever is contained within a human cadaver or its parts which prompts a cadaver dog to alert.

[G-Unit]

For all those who seem unsure what a fact is let me enlighten you. I have been told that apartment 5J was occupied that week and that the occupants left on 4th May. That is a statement of fact, as no IMO was included. I'm unable to
discover the source of the fact because no cite has been provided. That's a pity because it's very interesting and worth discussing if it's true. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

And if there was still a cadaver scent source in 5A?

Was there?

[Mr Gray]

Amaral claimed
These dogs, have solved 200 case
These dogs have never been wrong
Eddie alerted to a body under a, slab of concrete in Jersey

All untrue... Yet those  demanding truth and accuracy on this, site support his, right to make, those untrue claims... Claims made to millions of people

[G-Unit]

Amaral claimed
These dogs, have solved 200 case
These dogs have never been wrong
Eddie alerted to a body under a, slab of concrete in Jersey

All untrue... Yet those  demanding truth and accuracy on this, site support his, right to make, those untrue claims... Claims made to millions of people

It's a fact that Amaral said certain things. We know what he said because cites are available showing what he said. The truth of his statements are open to debate, the fact that he made them isn't.

Posters claiming 'Amaral said' should, under forum rules, provide cites showing where that information can be found. The reason for that is that people sometimes post what they think was said rather than what was actually said.

[Mr Gray]

It's a fact that Amaral said certain things. We know what he said because cites are available showing what he said. The truth of his statements are open to debate, the fact that he made them isn't.

Posters claiming 'Amaral said' should, under forum rules, provide cites showing where that information can be found. The reason for that is that people sometimes post what they think was said rather than what was actually said.

What you have posted is untrue and you surely  must know it.
The three statements I quoted from amaral are not open to debate but clearly  untrue.... So your claim that you wish to correct untrue statements is untrue and questions your motives and sincerety

[xtina]

You don't know if GA is right or wrong...

Why do you have to always include GA etc to your argument...

If it wasn't for the mccs....and there supporters ....

that book would never have seen the light of day....

IMO you all publicized that book...for it to be as popular as it is...

IMO that book took over the mccs.....not maddie being missing.....

It still seems that way even to this day...

[Mr Gray]

You don't know if GA is right or wrong...

Why do you have to always include GA etc to your argument...

If it wasn't for the mccs....and there supporters ....

that book would never have seen the light of day....

IMO you all publicized that book...for it to be as popular as it is...

IMO that book took over the mccs.....not maddie being missing.....

It still seems that way even to this day...

I do know amaral is wrong on the the three points I've raised.. 100% wrong

I raise it because posters claim the truth is important yet support amaral spreading things that are totally untrue