Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 5447 times)

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Online Robittybob1

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Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« on: October 28, 2018, 04:59:18 PM »
I had read and heard that Gerry says the cadaver dogs were unreliable but today I listened to a YT with an old documentary on the case and found the whole story worth listening to.
For what it is worth
https://youtu.be/cowJu0DHLl8 

793
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 09:23:54 PM by John »
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Offline misty

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 01:47:11 AM »
I had read and heard that Gerry says the cadaver dogs were unreliable but today I listened to a YT with an old documentary on the case and found the whole story worth listening to.
For what it is worth
https://youtu.be/cowJu0DHLl8

Thanks for the link, Rob. It was interesting & showed that the dogs' alerts in the concealed chamber were incorrect as far as one deposition site of Jeanette's body was concerned.
How very sad that the daughter who helped police to finally bring Eugene to justice was cut off by her close family after his conviction.

Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2018, 10:27:17 AM »
I kept on imagining the McCann kids could end up with a wire.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:51:21 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2018, 10:36:23 AM »
Thanks for the link, Rob. It was interesting & showed that the dogs' alerts in the concealed chamber were incorrect as far as one deposition site of Jeanette's body was concerned.
How very sad that the daughter who helped police to finally bring Eugene to justice was cut off by her close family after his conviction.

My reply was deleted but I don't know why. I said the dogs were wrong according to a man convicted of homicide. A man, it seems, who was capable of murdering his wife, burying her, digging her up, dismembering her and ridding himself of her in landfill. That's not definitive evidence in my opinion.
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2018, 10:52:37 AM »
My reply was deleted but I don't know why. I said the dogs were wrong according to a man convicted of homicide. A man, it seems, who was capable of murdering his wife, burying her, digging her up, dismembering her and ridding himself of her in landfill. That's not definitive evidence in my opinion.


There is no definitive evidence as to the reliability if the alerts... Just anectdotal
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 12:03:36 PM »

There is no definitive evidence as to the reliability if the alerts... Just anectdotal

I was speaking of the reliability of the evidence supplied by the perpetrator.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2018, 02:56:14 PM »
I was speaking of the reliability of the evidence supplied by the perpetrator.
Did he not give a full and frank confession to all the things you detailed above, why would you trust him to be telling the truth about them but not about a detail which throws doubt on the dogs reliability?  Perhaps the McCanns put him up to it, eh? 8(0(*

Offline Sunny

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2018, 04:07:07 PM »
Jeanette Zapatta's body was moved to a storage locker where the dogs alerted.  Zapatta has admitted to moving the body to that storage locker and the car he owned at that time.
 

In 2005, investigators called Eugene, who had remarried and moved to Nevada in 1997, and questioned him. The following day, Eugene cleared out a storage locker which he had rented in 2001. Police searched the locker with cadaver dogs a short time later. The dogs again detected the scent of human remains, and they also indicated the presence of human remains in a vehicle Eugene rented during a visit to Wisconsin in 2004.

http://charleyproject.org/case/jeanette-louise-zapata

Zapata pleaded guilty last month to reckless homicide in the death of Jeanette Zapata, a 37-year-old flight instructor. He told police that he clubbed and strangled his estranged wife and then hid her body in several locations, including a storage locker.

https://www.twincities.com/2008/03/11/man-says-he-would-have-admitted-killing-wifeafter-his-death/

Looks like the dogs were correct.
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2018, 04:32:33 PM »
Jeanette Zapatta's body was moved to a storage locker where the dogs alerted.  Zapatta has admitted to moving the body to that storage locker and the car he owned at that time.
 

In 2005, investigators called Eugene, who had remarried and moved to Nevada in 1997, and questioned him. The following day, Eugene cleared out a storage locker which he had rented in 2001. Police searched the locker with cadaver dogs a short time later. The dogs again detected the scent of human remains, and they also indicated the presence of human remains in a vehicle Eugene rented during a visit to Wisconsin in 2004.

http://charleyproject.org/case/jeanette-louise-zapata

Zapata pleaded guilty last month to reckless homicide in the death of Jeanette Zapata, a 37-year-old flight instructor. He told police that he clubbed and strangled his estranged wife and then hid her body in several locations, including a storage locker.

https://www.twincities.com/2008/03/11/man-says-he-would-have-admitted-killing-wifeafter-his-death/

Looks like the dogs were correct.

I have no doubt the dogs are relaible at detecting cadaver odour........what is in dobt is will they alert if there is no cadaver....in the case of 5a...the dog failed to alert to several spots....completely ignore them if my memeory serves me...but when being brought back again ...the dog alerted...this is in the files....another poster may have the location....this would perhaps explain why the dogs only alerted in 5a
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2018, 06:53:23 PM »
My reply was deleted but I don't know why. I said the dogs were wrong according to a man convicted of homicide. A man, it seems, who was capable of murdering his wife, burying her, digging her up, dismembering her and ridding himself of her in landfill. That's not definitive evidence in my opinion.
I thought it was a judge  (in the documentary) who rule that the dogs were unreliable evidence.

"They want to highlight the judge's dismissal of cadaver dog evidence in the high-profile Eugene Zapata murder trial in Madison, Wisconsin." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482105/Madeleine-McCanns-consult-American-lawyers-cadaver-dog-evidence.html
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:11:47 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2018, 06:57:38 PM »

There is no definitive evidence as to the reliability if the alerts... Just anecdotal
What is that in scientific terms Davel?  I think you know what is meant, Cadaver dog alerts are unreliable evidence unless confirmed with corroborating evidence.  E.g. if they alerted  and a body was buried underneath the floor boards no one would be questioning the reliability.
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2018, 07:02:31 PM »
Jeanette Zapatta's body was moved to a storage locker where the dogs alerted.  Zapatta has admitted to moving the body to that storage locker and the car he owned at that time.
 

In 2005, investigators called Eugene, who had remarried and moved to Nevada in 1997, and questioned him. The following day, Eugene cleared out a storage locker which he had rented in 2001. Police searched the locker with cadaver dogs a short time later. The dogs again detected the scent of human remains, and they also indicated the presence of human remains in a vehicle Eugene rented during a visit to Wisconsin in 2004.

http://charleyproject.org/case/jeanette-louise-zapata

Zapata pleaded guilty last month to reckless homicide in the death of Jeanette Zapata, a 37-year-old flight instructor. He told police that he clubbed and strangled his estranged wife and then hid her body in several locations, including a storage locker.

https://www.twincities.com/2008/03/11/man-says-he-would-have-admitted-killing-wifeafter-his-death/

Looks like the dogs were correct.
Only as correct as one believes his confession.   At the time people give in to the questioning by the police most people make a confession of a sort.  Not that it is accepted by the jury, or the trial judge.

If they believed his confession because he correlated the story with the cadaver dog alerts, that might  be why he got such a short sentence for "murdering" his wife.
The Americans give very long sentences generally for murder but his sentence was something like just 5 years.  Remarkably short IMO.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:27:33 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2018, 07:04:58 PM »
It was definitely panic stations for the McCanns in September 2007. 'On tenterhooks' all day on Saturday 8th waiting to see of they could leave Portugal. Deciding to go on Sunday 9th instead of waiting until the next day as planned. On 11th it was announced that they had hired Kingsley Napley and by 16th Zapata's legal team had been contacted.

Not that they were concerned by the dog alerts, of course.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482105/Madeleine-McCanns-consult-American-lawyers-cadaver-dog-evidence.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562821/McCanns-hire-high-profile-lawyers.html
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 07:05:35 PM »
I have no doubt the dogs are relaible at detecting cadaver odour........what is in dobt is will they alert if there is no cadaver....in the case of 5a...the dog failed to alert to several spots....completely ignore them if my memeory serves me...but when being brought back again ...the dog alerted...this is in the files....another poster may have the location....this would perhaps explain why the dogs only alerted in 5a
This post is not supported by facts Davel.
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 07:10:09 PM »
It was definitely panic stations for the McCanns in September 2007. 'On tenterhooks' all day on Saturday 8th waiting to see of they could leave Portugal. Deciding to go on Sunday 9th instead of waiting until the next day as planned. On 11th it was announced that they had hired Kingsley Napley and by 16th Zapata's legal team had been contacted.

Not that they were concerned by the dog alerts, of course.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482105/Madeleine-McCanns-consult-American-lawyers-cadaver-dog-evidence.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562821/McCanns-hire-high-profile-lawyers.html

They were concerned about the incompetent PJ imo.... Amaral was convinced he could prove Maddie died in the apartment
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:34:56 AM by Angelo222 »
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