Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 27173 times)

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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1215 on: July 17, 2019, 01:10:33 PM »


Body found in the hunt for missing British student Hannah Graham: Discovery made in abandoned house near prime suspect's mother's home in Virginia

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798649/search-missing-uva-student-hannah-graham-uncovers-human-remains-abandoned-property-south-disappeared.html

Where dies it say the digs found her body
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1216 on: July 17, 2019, 01:12:53 PM »
Where dies it say the digs found her body
Maybe the digs dug it up?
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1217 on: July 17, 2019, 01:16:19 PM »
Maybe the digs dug it up?

I think it was yesterday you spelt liable as libel..
I didn't bother pointing it out.. It's a childish thing to do
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1218 on: July 17, 2019, 01:19:36 PM »
I think it was yesterday you spelt liable as libel..
I didn't bother pointing it out.. It's a childish thing to do
Not to me its not.  Point it out.  Anything I right must be written write.
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1219 on: July 17, 2019, 01:22:25 PM »
Not to me its not.  Point it out.  Anything I right must be written write.

It is to me.... I post from my phone... I dont have the time or the inclination to correct things
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline jassi

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Lace

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1221 on: July 17, 2019, 02:52:51 PM »
Another one for the dogs, it would seem   8((()*/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/17/bones-found-in-worcestershire-unlikely-to-be-remains-of-suzy-lamplugh

Dogs will find bones,  that's what they do,  they bury them they dig them up.

Sniffing out cadaver scent when there is no body or bones is the difficult one.

Offline jassi

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1222 on: July 17, 2019, 03:00:28 PM »
Dogs will find bones,  that's what they do,  they bury them they dig them up.

Sniffing out cadaver scent when there is no body or bones is the difficult one.


Not difficult at all, they did it admirably in PDL.  IMO

The difficult bit is getting humans to accept their alerts.

But of course, being a supporter , you would want to put them down whenever possible.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1223 on: July 17, 2019, 03:31:05 PM »

Not difficult at all, they did it admirably in PDL.  IMO

The difficult bit is getting humans to accept their alerts.

But of course, being a supporter , you would want to put them down whenever possible.

When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1224 on: July 17, 2019, 10:36:43 PM »
When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it

It's all about context.... When the owner says they are a alerting to what they are trained to alert to we'll also take his word for it!!

In PDL the evidence was found and analysed. The dogs usefulness is finding the evidence. The alert itself isn't "evidential". It's really quite a simple process to grasp.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1225 on: July 17, 2019, 11:34:17 PM »
When their handler tells us they have no evidential value... I think it's right to take his word for it
How many times does Grime refer to "evidential value" in the white paper

He has not used the word evidential at all.  The word evidence comes up 146 times. 
Value seems to be predominately associated with the phrase "value for money".
On page 56/187 of the document http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf  he defines how they are to be used in court.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 11:58:30 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1226 on: July 18, 2019, 07:53:50 AM »
How many times does Grime refer to "evidential value" in the white paper

He has not used the word evidential at all.  The word evidence comes up 146 times. 
Value seems to be predominately associated with the phrase "value for money".
On page 56/187 of the document http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf  he defines how they are to be used in court.

ive already explained this several times...Grime seems to have had a massive change of mind as to what constitutes corroboration of the VRD alerts and has offerred no explanation for this. Based on his views in the white paper the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated.
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1227 on: July 18, 2019, 08:25:38 AM »
ive already explained this several times...Grime seems to have had a massive change of mind as to what constitutes corroboration of the VRD alerts and has offerred no explanation for this. Based on his views in the white paper the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated.
OK we have the definition of corroboration in the white paper (OK I might go to the bother of making a transcript).
So how do you fathom from that "the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated"?
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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1228 on: July 18, 2019, 08:42:15 AM »
OK we have the definition of corroboration in the white paper (OK I might go to the bother of making a transcript).
So how do you fathom from that "the alerts in Luz would be considered corroborated"?

Because according to the white paper the alerts can be corroborated by anectdotal witness, statements
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1229 on: July 18, 2019, 08:51:06 AM »
Because according to the white paper the alerts can be corroborated by anectdotal witness, statements
So who's witness statements are you thinking of?
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