Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 294852 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1425 on: July 20, 2019, 10:51:12 PM »

so what evidence is there that remnant scent would still be present in 5a after 3 months...absolutely none
Are you questioning whether Keela alerts were to remnant scent too? 

Even if it did (that remnant scent would still be present in 5a after 3 months) you could still object to it as there is no way of proving it.  The dog is the only test, as there is no scientific test for this.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1426 on: July 21, 2019, 12:19:53 AM »
Have they checked the area with a cadaver dog?  That there isn't a body left behind.

The newspapers made much of the old cemetery in Luz before the June 2014 digs, but as far as I know, cadaver dogs were not deployed in either cemetery.
What's up, old man?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1427 on: July 21, 2019, 12:31:55 AM »

so what evidence is there that remnant scent would still be present in 5a after 3 months...absolutely none

Police on Thursday revived their search for Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 en route to a New York City bus stop, after a cadaver-sniffing dog recently detected the odor of human remains in a basement near Patz’s SoHo home. Can dogs really smell 33-year-old remains?

Yes, if you have the right dog.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/04/etan-patz-search-renewed-can-cadaver-dogs-smell-30-year-old-corpses.html
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1428 on: July 21, 2019, 02:22:35 AM »
Police on Thursday revived their search for Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 en route to a New York City bus stop, after a cadaver-sniffing dog recently detected the odor of human remains in a basement near Patz’s SoHo home. Can dogs really smell 33-year-old remains?

Yes, if you have the right dog.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/04/etan-patz-search-renewed-can-cadaver-dogs-smell-30-year-old-corpses.html
I agreed with what that author writes. 
"No one knows exactly what dogs are smelling when they indicate the possible presence of remains. Well-trained cadaver dogs will not flag a living person or an animal. Possible scents include two byproducts of decomposition: putrescine and cadaverine. Although these compounds are common to all decaying material, an ace cadaver dog has such fine-tuned senses, it can differentiate human remains from most animals’. Belgian researchers at the Royal Military Academy in Brussels recently isolated a compound, dimethyl sulphide, that trained dogs will detect and respond to. The sulfide itself accompanies putrefaction in many kinds of organic matter, including human."

I doubt if it is a combination of these chemicals that is the species specific odour.  The "species" odour IMO is with the animal even when it it is alive, probably plus these 3 others which signify "and dead".
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1429 on: July 21, 2019, 02:33:01 AM »
What does Grime say on the matter?

Page #140/187 http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf

"Experimentally the author has identified graves hundreds of years old...."
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline barrier

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1430 on: July 21, 2019, 06:55:38 AM »

so what evidence is there that remnant scent would still be present in 5a after 3 months...absolutely none
Then take it to the next logical step if that's the case,why were the dogs brought in.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1431 on: July 21, 2019, 07:02:16 AM »
Police on Thursday revived their search for Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 en route to a New York City bus stop, after a cadaver-sniffing dog recently detected the odor of human remains in a basement near Patz’s SoHo home. Can dogs really smell 33-year-old remains?

Yes, if you have the right dog.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/04/etan-patz-search-renewed-can-cadaver-dogs-smell-30-year-old-corpses.html
Did they find a body or any trace of it to validate the alerts?   No.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1432 on: July 21, 2019, 07:54:26 AM »
Then take it to the next logical step if that's the case,why were the dogs brought in.
If Madeleine’s body had been hidden in one of the locations searched by the dogs it would probably have been found.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline barrier

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1433 on: July 21, 2019, 08:54:46 AM »
If Madeleine’s body had been hidden in one of the locations searched by the dogs it would probably have been found.


I don't think any one expected a body to still be behind the settee.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1434 on: July 21, 2019, 08:57:19 AM »
What does Grime say on the matter?

Page #140/187 http://eprints.staffs.ac.uk/4750/1/Forensic%20Canine%20Foundation%20.pdf

"Experimentally the author has identified graves hundreds of years old...."
That isn't remnant scent it's remains..,.....it's remnant scent that is being discussed

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1435 on: July 21, 2019, 08:58:49 AM »
He finds cadavers but all species at this stage.

So does every other dog.....that doesn't make it a cadaver dog

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1436 on: July 21, 2019, 09:01:23 AM »
Are you questioning whether Keela alerts were to remnant scent too? 

Even if it did (that remnant scent would still be present in 5a after 3 months) you could still object to it as there is no way of proving it.  The dog is the only test, as there is no scientific test for this.
Afaiaa Keela does not alert to remnant scent
I object to anything being accepted as fact when it is merely opinion with no proof to support it
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 09:23:30 AM by Davel »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1437 on: July 21, 2019, 09:03:16 AM »
Then take it to the next logical step if that's the case,why were the dogs brought in.

It was Harrison s idea to bring in the dogs...he said....to locate MMs remains if still present

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1438 on: July 21, 2019, 09:04:47 AM »
It is one of the considerations listed in the white paper.  - deceased estate furniture.

No evidence to support it...the expert in the Redwine case doesn't agree

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #1439 on: July 21, 2019, 09:06:18 AM »
That isn't remnant scent it's remains..,.....it's remnant scent that is being discussed
No I was trying to get SIL to checkout the old graveyard.
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