Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 5446 times)

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Online Davel

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2018, 08:30:45 PM »
Of course I have but we were discussing why the McCanns got out of Portugal.  I don't think you can use arguments that only become apparent later.

The PJ had akready told the McCann's the dogs hade scented death in the apartment ...presented geryvwithbthe DNa evidence
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2018, 11:35:34 PM »
The PJ had akready told the McCann's the dogs hade scented death in the apartment ...presented geryvwithbthe DNa evidence
The McCanns were asked if they could explain it, but they say they couldn't.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Online ShiningInLuz

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2018, 12:04:23 AM »
The McCanns were asked if they could explain it, but they say they couldn't.
Is that a fair test?

I have investigated the dogs for quite a while now.  So it would be a fair question for me, now.

But if someone dumped it on you, out of the blue, when you had no knowledge of what the dogs can and cannot do, would it be a fair question?
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Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2018, 01:05:33 AM »
Is that a fair test?

I have investigated the dogs for quite a while now.  So it would be a fair question for me, now.

But if someone dumped it on you, out of the blue, when you had no knowledge of what the dogs can and cannot do, would it be a fair question?
Yes I think it was.  Kate could have easily said if she knew whether Madeleine had died in the apartment or not.
But if she was unaware of anyone deceased in their apartment her answer was correct.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:03:51 AM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2018, 10:03:14 PM »
Why are police spending hours digging up a garden in Sutton Coldfield when a cadaver dog would pinpoint the spot exactly? 

Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2018, 10:27:35 PM »
Why are police spending hours digging up a garden in Sutton Coldfield when a cadaver dog would pinpoint the spot exactly?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/30/suzy-lamplugh-police-search-sutton-coldfield-property
Maybe they have used the dogs already and had no result.   But the tip off still needs looking at so they dig up the whole area.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2018, 10:29:02 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/30/suzy-lamplugh-police-search-sutton-coldfield-property
Maybe they have used the dogs already and had no result.   But the tip off still needs looking at so they dig up the whole area.
I wonder if the Met will be soundedly ridiculed and lambasted if they dig up the garden and nothing is found?

Offline Sunny

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2018, 07:26:42 AM »
Why are police spending hours digging up a garden in Sutton Coldfield when a cadaver dog would pinpoint the spot exactly?

I do not have any information whether they used dogs but the reason they are taking hours could be that they are having to remove concrete from a garage's foundations.

The iron structure had been dismantled and police were particularly interested in what was underneath its concrete floor, Mr Carey said.

The BBC understands work to remove parts of the concrete floor has begun


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-46027522
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2018, 08:00:50 AM »
I do not have any information whether they used dogs but the reason they are taking hours could be that they are having to remove concrete from a garage's foundations.

The iron structure had been dismantled and police were particularly interested in what was underneath its concrete floor, Mr Carey said.

The BBC understands work to remove parts of the concrete floor has begun


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-46027522
I thought dogs could detect bodies buried under concrete?  Not only that but detect residual scent left on the garden, digging tools and house etc, for many many years.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2018, 08:04:04 AM »
ďAs human remains decay, they produce a variety of very distinct odors. While most of us would probably prefer to avoid ever experiencing such odors, for cadaver dogs, the odors are like a signature, because they appear nowhere else in nature. A cadaver dog can actually detect human remains through concrete, buried underground, or at the bottom of a body of water, using its extremely well-honed noses to search for faint traces of theof the chemicals emitted by the human body during decompositionĒ.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2018, 08:07:12 AM »
ďJim Dickie, a former deputy chief inspector of the Metropolitan Police, who led a review of the case in 2000, said: ďItís an address thatís been known about for many years and obviously Cannanís linked to it. We didnít do any digging because we didnít think there was sufficient evidence or intelligence that suggested the body had been disposed of there. Thatís the beginning and end of it.ĒĒ. I wonder if they used dogs in 2000?

Offline The General

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2018, 08:12:06 AM »
Why are police spending hours digging up a garden in Sutton Coldfield when a cadaver dog would pinpoint the spot exactly?
Perhaps they did use them, but had no alerts. If the tip off warranted any investigation, then they may as well go the whole hog and dig the place up irrespective.

Offline Brietta

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2018, 08:54:25 AM »
ďJim Dickie, a former deputy chief inspector of the Metropolitan Police, who led a review of the case in 2000, said: ďItís an address thatís been known about for many years and obviously Cannanís linked to it. We didnít do any digging because we didnít think there was sufficient evidence or intelligence that suggested the body had been disposed of there. Thatís the beginning and end of it.ĒĒ. I wonder if they used dogs in 2000?

"We didnít do any digging because we didnít think there was sufficient evidence or intelligence that suggested the body had been disposed of there."

In other words ... the police do not embark on such excavation on a whim ... there has to be the justification of evidence or intelligence before doing so however many years after the event.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Robittybob1

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Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2018, 10:21:24 AM »
ďAs human remains decay, they produce a variety of very distinct odors. While most of us would probably prefer to avoid ever experiencing such odors, for cadaver dogs, the odors are like a signature, because they appear nowhere else in nature. A cadaver dog can actually detect human remains through concrete, buried underground, or at the bottom of a body of water, using its extremely well-honed noses to search for faint traces of theof the chemicals emitted by the human body during decompositionĒ.
The body would have been buried  more than 30 years.    Recent burial will be different to one 30 years later.  Cadaver odours are not going to remain at the same intensity over long periods of time.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2018, 11:32:24 AM »
The body would have been buried  more than 30 years.    Recent burial will be different to one 30 years later.  Cadaver odours are not going to remain at the same intensity over long periods of time.
But should still be detectable by a cadaver dog worth itís sausages, surely?