Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Lace]

That's my opinion. Blood on the key fob and in the boot.

The blood on the key fob was Gerry's,   there was no blood in the boot.

[Mr Gray]

Eleven years og arguing about whether the dogs are relaible yet no one has defined what is meant by reliable...
If there  are 10 gauze pads 5 with and 5 without cadaver odour ...then we would expect the dog to find the contaminated ones...at that they are reliable and the test proves it.
however if they alert in a house....is that a relaible alert to cadaver odour.....we simply dont know because the dogs have not been  tested in this sort of scenario. It would need the dog being taken to hundreds of sites...some with no known contaminant...some with luminol...etc etc....This would then give an idea as to how relaible the alerts are.

grime said the alert was possibly to cadaver...suggests cadaver...and that eddie alerted to a scent he was trained for...all totally vague statements. He could easily have said....in his opinion the alert was to cadaver...he didnt

[G-Unit]

The blood on the key fob was Gerry's,   there was no blood in the boot.

How do you know that there was blood on the key fob? The FSS were unable to identify the substance. They didn't obtain a full DNA match either, it was incomplete. They don't say how incomplete, just that the components found matched those of Gerry McCann.

If you accept there was blood on the key fob you are accepting Keela's alert. Why are you denying her alert in the boot?

[The General]

How do you know that there was blood on the key fob? The FSS were unable to identify the substance. They didn't obtain a full DNA match either, it was incomplete. They don't say how incomplete, just that the components found matched those of Gerry McCann.

If you accept there was blood on the key fob you are accepting Keela's alert. Why are you denying her alert in the boot?

It's a valid point, Keela was 100% bang on when finding the substance she was trained to find.

[Robittybob1]

It's a valid point, Keela was 100% bang on when finding the substance she was trained to find.

Well then what does Martin Grime say Keela found in the boot?

[G-Unit]

Well then what does Martin Grime say Keela found in the boot?

Keela was trained to alert to blood and nothing else.

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate human

blood to such small proportions that it is unlikely to be recovered by the forensic

science procedures in place at this time due to its size or placement.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

[misty]

I have to disagree misty. Transfer of cadaver scent doesn't take a long period of time it can be instantaneous.

Cadaver scent contamination may be transferred in
numerous scenarios. Any contact with a cadaver which is then passed to any
other material may be recognised by the dog causing a 'trigger' indication.

From Martin Grime's statement

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

It says here that cadaver dog training aids can be produced by wiping a gauze pad over a deceased body. That wouldn't take a lot of time, or do you believe it would Misty?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ppDNBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=cadaver+scent+transfer&source=bl&ots=CvD5xtEXgu&sig=mz0pcsxVai6lJepF-Xnz9kZAMSs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwip9paL39XeAhXqLsAKHU3LAJA4ChDoATABegQIBBAB#v=onepage&q=cadaver%20scent%20transfer&f=false

I'm not disagreeing with the key itself having been contaminated with an alert-inducing substance. What I'm questioning is how that cross-contaminated key fob placed in a side pocket could have effused enough odour to escape through the door seal & cause Eddie to be excited some 5m away from the car.. Furthermore, why was Grime so sure that only the key could have produced this reaction, negating the requirement for any further examination of the vehicle interior by Eddie?
BTW how many cadaver dogs had Grime trained before Eddie?

[Sunny]

And your point was?

[misty]

And your point was?

Was Grime correctly interpreting what Eddie was really alerting to?

[Sunny]

Was Grime correctly interpreting what Eddie was really alerting to?

Do you mean that cadaver scent could have been transferred onto the McCanns belonging or simply wrong about it being cadaver scent that was alerted to by Eddie?

 

[Mr Gray]

Do you mean that cadaver scent could have been transferred onto the McCanns belonging or simply wrong about it being cadaver scent that was alerted to by Eddie?

Grime never said it was cadaver scent

[misty]

Do you mean that cadaver scent could have been transferred onto the McCanns belonging or simply wrong about it being cadaver scent that was alerted to by Eddie?

I am referring specifically to the key fob, handled by many people but declared by Grime to be the focal point of Eddie's (& Keela's) alert at the door seal of the Scenic.

[The General]

Grime never said it was cadaver scent

I think he did:
'Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

[Mr Gray]

I think he did:
'Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog''
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

That's right... He didn't answer the question... You just think he did  .
Does anyone believe that was an alert

[Eleanor]

That's right... He didn't answer the question... You just think he did  .
Does anyone believe that was an alert

Any Court would have had a good laugh at that one.