Author Topic: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata  (Read 255816 times)

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Offline The General

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #795 on: November 16, 2018, 07:47:36 AM »
Gerry may well have called.... They were desperate tobtry anything..

Christopher Hitchens... A lifelong vical atheist... Turned to God when he was about to die... That's, what desperation does to people
Wow. Desperate to try anything, including a barnpot with a plastic box with a housebrick in it, but not desperate enough to try EVRD dogs.

And the Christopher Hitchens story, that he took Pascal's Wager at the bitter end, is utterly refuted by his son:
On the deathbed conversion – I spent my father’s final weeks and days at his bedside and watched him draw his final breath and die, and can assure you that there was no hint of any sort of conversion (as I’m sure you have already guessed). In fact, we barely spoke about religion at all except for joint expressions of frustration at the god botherers who made the rounds in the ICU and other units where dying people could be preyed upon by vulturous Christians.

The book that made that scurrilous allegation was written by a fundamentalist, Larry Taunton, who pours scorn on anyone who refutes god; Rushdie, Krauss, Fry, Hitchens' own father. Hitchens himself predicted such assertions: “It’s considered perfectly normal in this society to approach dying people whom you don’t know, but who are unbelievers, and say: ‘Now are you going to change your mind?’ … As you know, there’s a long history of fraud about this. People claim that Darwin had a deathbed recantation. They made up lies about Thomas Paine. It goes on all the time. It’s a very nasty little history… They’ve even tried it on me, when I’ve had not the vinegar I’d like to have had, in a hospital bed. ”

« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 08:38:35 AM by Eleanor »
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #796 on: November 16, 2018, 08:44:15 AM »
Wow. Desperate to try anything, including a barnpot with a plastic box with a housebrick in it, but not desperate enough to try EVRD dogs.

And the Christopher Hitchens story, that he took Pascal's Wager at the bitter end, is utterly refuted by his son:
On the deathbed conversion – I spent my father’s final weeks and days at his bedside and watched him draw his final breath and die, and can assure you that there was no hint of any sort of conversion (as I’m sure you have already guessed). In fact, we barely spoke about religion at all except for joint expressions of frustration at the god botherers who made the rounds in the ICU and other units where dying people could be preyed upon by vulturous Christians.

The book that made that scurrilous allegation was written by a fundamentalist, Larry Taunton, who pours scorn on anyone who refutes god; Rushdie, Krauss, Fry, Hitchens' own father. Hitchens himself predicted such assertions: “It’s considered perfectly normal in this society to approach dying people whom you don’t know, but who are unbelievers, and say: ‘Now are you going to change your mind?’ … As you know, there’s a long history of fraud about this. People claim that Darwin had a deathbed recantation. They made up lies about Thomas Paine. It goes on all the time. It’s a very nasty little history… They’ve even tried it on me, when I’ve had not the vinegar I’d like to have had, in a hospital bed. ”

I'm quite glad to hear Hitchins didn't convert

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #797 on: November 16, 2018, 09:25:34 AM »
I'm quite glad to hear Hitchins didn't convert

People make their minds up about these questions and should stick with their decisions in extremis in my opinion. The McCanns turned to religion but had never previously rejected it as far as I know. I was surprised that they were willing to consider psychics and cranks, though, especially so early on with the Marina 'vision'. 
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Offline The General

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #798 on: November 16, 2018, 09:43:33 AM »
People make their minds up about these questions and should stick with their decisions in extremis in my opinion. The McCanns turned to religion but had never previously rejected it as far as I know. I was surprised that they were willing to consider psychics and cranks, though, especially so early on with the Marina 'vision'.
They were more than happy, in their desperation, to employ Krugel and his amazing magic machine, but were happy to dismiss and disparage the dogs. Which would have been more likely to be of assistance in finding your missing daughter, irrespective of whether you believed the dogs were '100%'? A quick Google search of Krugel, rather than the efficacy of cadaver dogs, would have given Gerry enough information to make an informed decision.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #799 on: November 16, 2018, 05:57:53 PM »
They were more than happy, in their desperation, to employ Krugel and his amazing magic machine, but were happy to dismiss and disparage the dogs. Which would have been more likely to be of assistance in finding your missing daughter, irrespective of whether you believed the dogs were '100%'? A quick Google search of Krugel, rather than the efficacy of cadaver dogs, would have given Gerry enough information to make an informed decision.
In what way were the cadaver dogs deployed in 2007 to try and find Madeleine McCann that Gerry should have been grateful for?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #800 on: November 16, 2018, 06:01:57 PM »
In what way were the cadaver dogs deployed in 2007 to try and find Madeleine McCann that Gerry should have been grateful for?
They would have wanted closure as they say.   If someone had killed her or she had died by accident the parents would still want to find her remains IMO.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 06:11:10 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #801 on: November 16, 2018, 06:35:59 PM »
In what way were the cadaver dogs deployed in 2007 to try and find Madeleine McCann that Gerry should have been grateful for?

They searched Murat's house and various cars connected with him. They also searched areas around the village. Would alerts in any of those locations have led to criticism of the dogs? Not in my opinion.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #802 on: November 16, 2018, 06:50:55 PM »
They searched Murat's house and various cars connected with him. They also searched areas around the village. Would alerts in any of those locations have led to criticism of the dogs? Not in my opinion.
What areas around the village specifically and on what basis were they selected?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #803 on: November 16, 2018, 06:58:56 PM »
They searched Murat's house and various cars connected with him. They also searched areas around the village. Would alerts in any of those locations have led to criticism of the dogs? Not in my opinion.

The criticism isn't of the dogs but of what you and others think Re the significance of the alerts
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 07:09:47 PM by Davel »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #804 on: November 16, 2018, 07:36:58 PM »
What areas around the village specifically and on what basis were they selected?
Mark Harrison, NPIA
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 10:35:08 PM by ShiningInLuz »
What's up, old man?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #805 on: November 16, 2018, 07:41:17 PM »
And did that policeman rub up against Kate's clothes?

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #806 on: November 16, 2018, 07:49:17 PM »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #807 on: November 16, 2018, 08:28:03 PM »
What areas around the village specifically and on what basis were they selected?

Questions, questions....

On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.

On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

They were selected by Mark Harrison.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #808 on: November 16, 2018, 08:31:13 PM »
Questions, questions....

On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.

On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

They were selected by Mark Harrison.

Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence




Mark Harrison was quite clear no inferences could be drawn from the slerts without accompanying PHYSICAL evidence

Offline G-Unit

Re: Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata
« Reply #809 on: November 16, 2018, 08:34:49 PM »
The criticism isn't of the dogs but of what you and others think Re the significance of the alerts

Pardon? Those 'incredibly unreliable' dogs, do you mean?
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