Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Robittybob1]

That is no reason to delete a, post.. Alice replied so understood... You could ask for it to be, edited, without the unfair threat of deletion... Totally unfair

Maybe someone else can rephrase it then.

[Erngath]

As do you Davel. He wasn't saying that it wasn't cadaver that Eddie scented only that it would need further evidence to confirm if it was.

Please will you stop insulting all people who don't believe everything that the mccanns have done, constantly.

Do you believe anything the McCanns have said or done?
It does seem to me that sceptics doubt and criticise every deed and spoken word of Madeleine's parents.
It does appear to me that it weakens the sceptics argument when every word and deed is criticised. iMO.

[Sunny]

Do you believe anything the McCanns have said or done?
It does seem to me that sceptics doubt and criticise every deed and spoken word of Madeleine's parents.
It does appear to me that it weakens the sceptics argument when every word and deed is criticised. iMO.

Actually I do believe some things they say and I do not criticise everything they do either.    There are things I criticise and some I don't believe but not everything by a long chalk.

[Erngath]

Actually I do believe some things they say and I do not criticise everything they do either.    There are things I criticise and some I don't believe but not everything by a long chalk.

I would be very interested to know which things you believe  they have said to be true?
Which aspects of their behaviour don't you criticise?

It does appear to me that sceptics criticise every action and word the McCanns have made..

[Angelo222]

AM »
Eleven years og arguing about whether the dogs are relaible yet no one has defined what is meant by reliable...
If there  are 10 gauze pads 5 with and 5 without cadaver odour ...then we would expect the dog to find the contaminated ones...at that they are reliable and the test proves it.
however if they alert in a house....is that a relaible alert to cadaver odour.....we simply dont know because the dogs have not been  tested in this sort of scenario. It would need the dog being taken to hundreds of sites...some with no known contaminant...some with luminol...etc etc....This would then give an idea as to how relaible the alerts are.

grime said the alert was possibly to cadaver...suggests cadaver...and that eddie alerted to a scent he was trained for...all totally vague statements. He could easily have said....in his opinion the alert was to cadaver...he didnt

Well trained cadaver dogs like Eddie are reliable and will find what they are trained to find.  The problem arises when dogs like Eddie are trained and retrained on several substances. The only really reliable dog imo is one which is trained solely on cadavers. Training such a dog in the UK is prohibited by law so any dog trained to such a standard would have to go to specialised facilities in America and that would be uneconomic.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well trained cadaver dogs like Eddie are reliable and will find what they are trained to find.  The problem arises when dogs like Eddie are trained and retrained on several substances. The only really reliable dog imo is one which is trained solely on cadavers. Training such a dog in the UK is prohibited by law so any dog trained to such a standard would have to go to specialised facilities in America and that would be uneconomic.

You seem to be saying that Eddie is not really very reliable.

[G-Unit]

Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence

That's, what Harrison  said about the alerts... Sceptics want to ignore the expert

In his report dated 23 July he recommended searching the apartment;

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

The search was carried out on 31st July, and the EVRD did alert in the apartment. Harrison produces another report dated 8th August, but now he seems to be contradicting himself;

I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

So before 5A was searched, an alert might suggest that a body had been present then removed. After it was searched and the dog alerted he seems to be changing his mind.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In his report dated 23 July he recommended searching the apartment;

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

The search was carried out on 31st July, and the EVRD did alert in the apartment. Harrison produces another report dated 8th August, but now he seems to be contradicting himself;

I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

So before 5A was searched, an alert might suggest that a body had been present then removed. After it was searched and the dog alerted he seems to be changing his mind.

”may suggest” is quite vague isn’t it, for dogs that are supposedly nearly always right...

[Mr Gray]

In his report dated 23 July he recommended searching the apartment;

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

The search was carried out on 31st July, and the EVRD did alert in the apartment. Harrison produces another report dated 8th August, but now he seems to be contradicting himself;

I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm

So before 5A was searched, an alert might suggest that a body had been present then removed. After it was searched and the dog alerted he seems to be changing his mind.

So now you are finding inconsistencies in Harrison's statements. To me he us qualifying his initial statement.... Confirming that physical evidence is required to confirm the alert...

His qualification if his statement may be because he felt the PJ were putting too much significance into the alerts

[Mr Gray]

It makes something of a mockery of the claims, of the, McCanns guilt that the central piece of evidence against them... The alerts.... Have no evidential reliability or value according to the, experts

[Mr Gray]

Well trained cadaver dogs like Eddie are reliable and will find what they are trained to find.  The problem arises when dogs like Eddie are trained and retrained on several substances. The only really reliable dog imo is one which is trained solely on cadavers. Training such a dog in the UK is prohibited by law so any dog trained to such a standard would have to go to specialised facilities in America and that would be uneconomic.

You seem to be agreeing with me that the, dogs, are reliable at detecting cadaver odour if it is, present but not every alert is, a reliable indication of cadaver odour

[G-Unit]

So now you are finding inconsistencies in Harrison's statements. To me he us qualifying his initial statement.... Confirming that physical evidence is required to confirm the alert...

His qualification if his statement may be because he felt the PJ were putting too much significance into the alerts

In my opinion Harrison either misled the PJ in his first report or he didn't.

[Mr Gray]

In my opinion Harrison either misled the PJ in his first report or he didn't.

He didn't... IMO... Are you now accusing Harrison of misleading the pj

[Mr Gray]

To me it's quite simple.... The, statistics on parents involvement in crimes against children might suggest the involvement of the McCanns.... However no inference as to their involvement can be drawn from the, statistics

[Robittybob1]

In my opinion Harrison either misled the PJ in his first report or he didn't.

Is that all options?  Can you explain that to the forum please?