Cadaver dogs are unreliable - Eugene Zapata

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes I believe so.

Sample 3A I from under the floor tiles also contained a number of DNA markers in common with MM, from what I can remember.

Of course MM's DNA would be in the hire car.  Some items she had direct and indirect contact had been placed in it.

[Robittybob1]

With respect you are not an expert.  You do not know how skin rafts are affected upon death no more than I do.

I'm sure Grime talks about it in the White papers, no I think it was in that  file on tracker dogs.

Of course MM's DNA would be in the hire car.  Some items she had direct and indirect contact had been placed in it.

Are you now pretending to be the expert that just from transfer Madeleine's DNA would be in detectable amounts in the hire car?

[Robittybob1]

With respect you are not an expert.  You do not know how skin rafts are affected upon death no more than I do.

I did see a direct statement about this recently but it is implied here, but it is not the reference I want.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm
" The need to extend the perimeter of the searches was due to the fact that no sign of the girl had been found during the previous two days in the areas that had been searched and from the third day the theory that the girl might have been taken by someone was considered and, in the face of this hypothesis, the search operation was given a new scenario, becoming the search for a girl 'alive or dead' (the second possibility being the most probable) who had been left somewhere by an abductor."

The tracker dog can detect a victim from the clothing items alive or dead.  But in the actual reference it said dead for only a few days.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm sure Grime talks about it in the White papers, no I think it was in that  file on tracker dogs.

Air scenting dogs are nothing to do with Grimes.

Are you now pretending to be the expert that just from transfer Madeleine's DNA would be in detectable amounts?

No I'm not pretending to be an expert but I did have contact with a forensic scientist over the Bamber case where LCN DNA testing was also used. 

Yes MM's DNA would be everywhere she had direct and indirect contact with.  LCN DNA works off samples as small as 1,000,000 the size of a grain of salt. 

DNA testing isn't a one size fits all.  LCN DNA works off invisible to the naked eye amounts that are amplified up to get a result.  Its not even possible to say the source eg skin cells, blood, saliva etc.

And FSS found the results inconclusive so why are we even discussing it?

[Robittybob1]

Air scenting dogs are nothing to do with Grimes.

No I'm not pretending to be an expert but I did have contact with a forensic scientist over the Bamber case where LCN DNA testing was also used. 

Yes MM's DNA would be everywhere she had direct and indirect contact with.  LCN DNA works off samples as small as 1,000,000 the size of a grain of salt. 

DNA testing isn't a one size fits all.  LCN DNA works off invisible to the naked eye amounts that are amplified up to get a result.  Its not even possible to say the source eg skin cells, blood, saliva etc.

And FSS found the results inconclusive so why are we even discussing it?

Gerry said there were over 30 different people who had been in that hire car, so really sensitive DNA testing might show up really complex mixed DNA results.

[ShiningInLuz]

Redwood simply did what should have been done in the beginning.  There was always a possibility no matter who may have tried to dispose of a body.

I think it was done in the beginning.

To be sure, I need to contact a Lt-Coronel in the GNR.

It's in my to-do backlog.

[Eleanor]

I think it was done in the beginning.

To be sure, I need to contact a Lt-Coronel in the GNR.

It's in my to-do backlog.

I don't think anyone actually dug up anything, did they?  And if so, why do it again?

[ShiningInLuz]

I don't think anyone actually dug up anything, did they?  And if so, why do it again?

I can't be certain.  But I'm far from convinced that OG understood the parameters of the original searches, the layout of Luz, or the difficulty involved in digging holes in the Algarve in May.

Other than that ...

[Eleanor]

I can't be certain.  But I'm far from convinced that OG understood the parameters of the original searches, the layout of Luz, or the difficulty involved in digging holes in the Algarve in May.

Other than that ...

I suspect that Operation Grange didn't have much idea about Luz at all.

[pathfinder73]

Of course MM's DNA would be in the hire car.  Some items she had direct and indirect contact had been placed in it.

Scotland Yard had to get her DNA profile back in England. If DNA found at an alerted spot by a blood dog belongs to Madeleine and with matching hairs in the boot then that is not normal but highly suspicious!

Portimao 1st October 2007

Inspector Ferreira,

DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.

Regards

Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

[misty]

Scotland Yard had to get her DNA profile back in England. If DNA found at an alerted spot by a blood dog belongs to Madeleine and with matching hairs in the boot then that is not normal but highly suspicious!

Portimao 1st October 2007

Inspector Ferreira,

DNA profile of Madeleine McCann that was collected in her parents house in England.

Regards

Jose de Freitas
New Scotland Yard

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

Was it just a coincidence Amaral was removed from the case the day after Portuguese forensics were sent Madeleine's full DNA profile?

[sadie]

Yes I believe so.

Sample 3A I from under the floor tiles also contained a number of DNA markers in common with MM, from what I can remember.

Well if the previous grandfather owner was a Mccann, then you would expect him to have a good number of DNA markers in common with Madeleine, wouldn't you ?

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I'm not forgetting anything.  Human cellular material, which in this case was invisible to the naked eye, would be all over the apartment including MM's.  LCN works off samples as small as 1,000,000 size of a grain of salt.  The FSS found the findings inconclusive.

Let's leave "no stone unturned"... Let's at least take Dr Purlin up on his offer of making a conclusive analysis of the DNA data. Yes of course some traceable DNA belonging to MM should have been present in 5A... sweat, urine, saliva on bed clothes and pillow cases, for example. The point is though that Keela was trained to alert to human blood and not to sweat, urine and saliva. If the dogs alerted at such things = they wouldn't have been so selective in  their alerts. It defies all objectivity to think otherwise.

Look at GM's reported answer when asked if MM lost any blood in the apartment. Sure it doesn't prove anything, but there is circumstantial evidence and warranted inquisitive suspicion that make the parents worthy of further investigation. This is the route the PJ undoubtedly wanting to take initially (well after discounting the abduction story). They felt pressure was applied by figures in the UK establishment not to follow this line of inquiry and essential work was therefore hampered. MM has been cheated of a proper investigation. Instead we suffered the appalling media stories (often controlled by CM, IMO) of lurking predators, paedophiles and child traffickers (but of course there was "no evidence that MM had come to harm"... we had faux police press conferences led by a political spin doctor, IMO. Nothing of the like has ever been seen before.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Of course MM's DNA would be in the hire car.  Some items she had direct and indirect contact had been placed in it.

3A wasn't a sample from the car... and with regards to samples that were you need to consider Keela's training. She was trained to alert to blood. Furthermore your theory wouldn't explain why there wasn't an alert in 4G.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Let's leave "no stone unturned"... Let's at least take Dr Purlin up on his offer of making a conclusive analysis of the DNA data. Yes of course some traceable DNA belonging to MM should have been present in 5A... sweat, urine, saliva on bed clothes and pillow cases, for example. The point is though that Keela was trained to alert to human blood and not to sweat, urine and saliva. If the dogs alerted at such things = they wouldn't have been so selective in  their alerts. It defies all objectivity to think otherwise.

Look at GM's reported answer when asked if MM lost any blood in the apartment. Sure it doesn't prove anything, but there is circumstantial evidence and warranted inquisitive suspicion that make the parents worthy of further investigation. This is the route the PJ undoubtedly wanting to take initially (well after discounting the abduction story). They felt pressure was applied by figures in the UK establishment not to follow this line of inquiry and essential work was therefore hampered. MM has been cheated of a proper investigation. Instead we suffered the appalling media stories (often controlled by CM, IMO) of lurking predators, paedophiles and child traffickers (but of course there was "no evidence that MM had come to harm"... we had faux police press conferences led by a political spin doctor, IMO. Nothing of the like has ever been seen before.

The appalling press stories were all those invented to slur the McCanns, what happened to CM’s alleged control then?