Who killed Bambi ?

[Holly Goodhead]

I just threw that in to see what you'd say.

But only used with a telescopic sight which Bamber removed less than two weeks before the murders... funny that.

13. The rifle was a .22 Anshutz automatic rifle. Together with a Parker Hale sound moderator (silencer) and telescopic sights, it had been bought by Nevill Bamber on 30 November 1984. 500 rounds of ammunition had also been purchased. There was evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits and would only ever be used with the sound moderator and the telescopic sights attached. A screwdriver was required to remove the telescopic sights but there was evidence that this was not normally done because of the time it took to realign them.

A .22 rifle and ammo designed to shoot vermin is evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits/vermin but which evidence are you referring to that points to the gun only ever being used with the sound moderator and telescopic sights?  And which firearm do you think was the one most often used around WHF?

[APRIL]

Which firearm do you think was the one most often used around WHF?

Without a knowledge of firearms it's not easy to answer. I can only use my own attachment to pens as a yard stick. I might buy one and not use it for months, preferring one I know. Much depends on the type of paper I'm planning to write on, the fineness of the nib, the colour of the ink. There certainly appears to have been a choice of guns at their disposal. Might different guns have been suitable according to what was being shot, and where? They couldn't both use the same gun if they were in different places on the same day, in which case I guess Jeremy would have used the newer one -ostensibly bought for him- and Nevill would have used whichever was his favourite.

It has just occurred to me that the gun in question isn't the gun Jeremy wanted. Didn't he seek Peter Eaton's advice and was told the gun he was suggesting wasn't appropriate? I wonder how thwarted he might have felt if Nevill insisted on accompanying him to Radcliff's. To make sure he bought something of which Nevill approved, perhaps?

[Holly Goodhead]

BTW, is anyone else having problems with formatting, spacing paragraphs properly, posting photos anything over a minuscule size?  Or is it just me?

I think its just you! 

JB was a marksman.  He may have have preferred the iron/open sights rather than the telescopic sights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds0IOBjF_FQ

[Myster]

A .22 rifle and ammo designed to shoot vermin is evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits/vermin but which evidence are you referring to that points to the gun only ever being used with the sound moderator and telescopic sights?  And which firearm do you think was the one most often used around WHF?

I've just said which one or rather implied it - the Anschutz obviously, to shoot rats in the barn, the odd rabbit before they all scarpered, or a fox lurking in the farmyard at nightfall -  "Dad only had to get the smell of a fox and he'd be out!"

Bamber had a zeroing-in session with AP and his new Anschutz didn't he? i.e. one fitted with telescopic sight  which is indispensable when shooting any of the above.

[Myster]

I think its just you! 

JB was a marksman.  He may have have preferred the iron/open sights rather than the telescopic sights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds0IOBjF_FQ

Fitted by the gunsmith in November 1984, attached and used for 8 months, then suddenly removed within a few days of the murders... mmmm!

[adam]

Because both would understand the power of the rifle and how lethal it could be.  There's also the possibility the pair were growing opium poppies for the black market and wanted to avoid anyone from outside getting involved.

It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. So surprised a 6.4 farmer & 24 year old man were in such a panic when Sheila picked it up.

[Myster]

Because both would understand the power of the rifle and how lethal it could be.  There's also the possibility the pair were growing opium poppies for the black market and wanted to avoid anyone from outside getting involved.

Straight as a die Nevill?... growing Poppies illegally?!!... Bullocks!!!

[Myster]

I'm off to pull some pork... or a bird.  Can't decide which is tastier!

[Holly Goodhead]

I've just said which one or rather implied it - the Anschutz obviously, to shoot rats in the barn, the odd rabbit before they all scarpered, or a fox lurking in the farmyard at nightfall -  "Dad only had to get the smell of a fox and he'd be out!"

Bamber had a zeroing-in session with AP and his new Anschutz didn't he? i.e. one fitted with telescopic sight  which is indispensable when shooting any of the above.

Which was no doubt referred to as the gun ie "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun"

I'm not aware JB had a zeroing-in session with AP? 

No the open sights aka iron sights which are built into the rifle at manufacturing are perfectly good for shooting vermin at a wide range of distances.  JB was a marksman and no doubt when in the cadets/at Greshams/as a boy on the farm learned to shoot with open sights. 

The fact a telescopic sight was fitted when purchased in Nov '84 and AP claimed it was fitted last weekend of July '85 isn't evidence it was routinely used.  Probably the only reliable source to confirm one way or the other would be NB.  Others who may have known are Jean Boutell the housekeeper and farm worker Len Foakes both of whom were regulars at WHF unlike AP.

AP was wrong about scars to JB's hand so it could be argued he was an unreliable witness

[Myster]

Which was no doubt referred to as the gun ie "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun"

I'm not aware JB had a zeroing-in session with AP? 

No the open sights aka iron sights which are built into the rifle at manufacturing are perfectly good for shooting vermin at a wide range of distances.  JB was a marksman and no doubt when in the cadets/at Greshams/as a boy on the farm learned to shoot with open sights. 

The fact a telescopic sight was fitted when purchased in Nov '84 and AP claimed it was fitted last weekend of July '85 isn't evidence it was routinely used.  Probably the only reliable source to confirm one way or the other would be NB.  Others who may have known are Jean Boutell the housekeeper and farm worker Len Foakes both of whom were regulars at WHF unlike AP.

AP was wrong about scars to JB's hand so it could be argued he was an unreliable witness

Sorry... AP's Anschutz wasn't new I don't think, only JB's.  But they had a session in the barn with a block of wood or something and AP said his own wasn't shooting accurately.  So JB fired a few rounds with it and found it was OK. In Wilkes, probably.

 Anthony Pargeter, Nevill Bamber's nephew and a competition standard shot, stayed at White House Farm between 26-28 July 1985. He saw the .22 rifle in the gun cupboard in the ground floor office. The telescopic sights and sound moderator were attached and the gun appeared in a "new" condition. There were no scratches or marks upon it. Later the appellant, himself a good shot, took the rifle out for some target practice.

 Why an unreliable witness?  He noticed JB's Anschutz in the cupboard as above.

The rifle was a .22 Anshutz automatic rifle. Together with a Parker Hale sound moderator (silencer) and telescopic sights, it had been bought by Nevill Bamber on 30 November 1984. 500 rounds of ammunition had also been purchased. There was evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits and would only ever be used with the sound moderator and the telescopic sights attached. A screwdriver was required to remove the telescopic sights but there was evidence that this was not normally done because of the time it took to realign them
 

[Myster]

I'm off... this dodgy posting is driving me nuts.

[Caroline]

Because both would understand the power of the rifle and how lethal it could be. There's also the possibility the pair were growing opium poppies for the black market and wanted to avoid anyone from outside getting involved.

No there isn't.

[APRIL]

No there isn't.

I'll echo that. Nevill was representative of all those of a certain age and social type within the area. He was liked and trusted by all who knew him. The very worst that any of that group may have done is imbibe a little too freely once in a while. The idea that he'd have colluded with his son to do what he may have sent others down for is unacceptable...................however, if we allow ourselves to go down that road, we get a view of someone who bought his son up to believe he was above the law and anything he wanted was his for the taking as long as he didn't get caught.

[Holly Goodhead]

Sorry... AP's Anschutz wasn't new I don't think, only JB's.  But they had a session in the barn with a block of wood or something and AP said his own wasn't shooting accurately.  So JB fired a few rounds with it and found it was OK. In Wilkes, probably.

 Anthony Pargeter, Nevill Bamber's nephew and a competition standard shot, stayed at White House Farm between 26-28 July 1985. He saw the .22 rifle in the gun cupboard in the ground floor office. The telescopic sights and sound moderator were attached and the gun appeared in a "new" condition. There were no scratches or marks upon it. Later the appellant, himself a good shot, took the rifle out for some target practice.

 Why an unreliable witness?  He noticed JB's Anschutz in the cupboard as above.

The rifle was a .22 Anshutz automatic rifle. Together with a Parker Hale sound moderator (silencer) and telescopic sights, it had been bought by Nevill Bamber on 30 November 1984. 500 rounds of ammunition had also been purchased. There was evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits and would only ever be used with the sound moderator and the telescopic sights attached. A screwdriver was required to remove the telescopic sights but there was evidence that this was not normally done because of the time it took to realign them

The fact AP claimed the telescopic sights and silencer were fitted when he saw the rifle at WHF on last w/e of Jul '85 isn't evidence of anything.  His recollection may have been wrong and if it wasn't wrong there's no evidence the sights and silencer were permanent fixtures.  NB and/or JB may have preferred to use the iron/open sights and it was acknowledged at trial that the rifle would not fit in the case with the silencer attached as per JB's police interview.

AP claimed he saw small circular scars on JB's hands which was proved unfounded.  If he was wrong about this he may well have been wrong about the silencer/scope.  You can read about the scars at point 444 - ground 13:

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

[Myster]

The fact AP claimed the telescopic sights and silencer were fitted when he saw the rifle at WHF on last w/e of Jul '85 isn't evidence of anything.  His recollection may have been wrong and if it wasn't wrong there's no evidence the sights and silencer were permanent fixtures.  NB and/or JB may have preferred to use the iron/open sights and it was acknowledged at trial that the rifle would not fit in the case with the silencer attached as per JB's police interview.

AP claimed he saw small circular scars on JB's hands which was proved unfounded.  If he was wrong about this he may well have been wrong about the silencer/scope.  You can read about the scars at point 444 - ground 13:

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

You omitted to say " in my opinion".   

Who said the rifle was ever kept in a case?