What is 'science'

[Mr Gray]

OK. I'm retiring from this discussion now because I've made the points I wanted to make which are;

Saying 'scientific' isn't meaningful because there are different kinds of science.
'Scientific method' also varies depending which science is being looked at.
Statistical studies can't reveal causes, they can only find associations.

No evidential value or reliability

[Vertigo Swirl]

OK. I'm retiring from this discussion now because I've made the points I wanted to make which are;

Saying 'scientific' isn't meaningful because there are different kinds of science.
'Scientific method' also varies depending which science is being looked at.
Statistical studies can't reveal causes, they can only find associations.

Scientific has a meaning in the English language and therefore it is meaningful.  Saying the dog alerts are not an exact science is exactly right, maybe some people needed reminding of that fact, after all some people think the dogs know everything and are never wrong.

[Alice Purjorick]

Why should they be worried?  The only people who should be worried are those whose future liberty and well being depends on the bark of a dog which may or may not be accurate.

Which is the most dangerous in your opinion.
The empirical woof of a dog or the empirical design of a machine?

I am trying to establish the objection the common scientific method of "empirical and iterative" as I posted about a fortnight ago.

Science according to this forum science appears not to extend much beyond smoking tobacco and its effect on the incidence of lung cancer in human, drug trials and woofin' bleedin' dogs.
No wonder courts dislike science and expert witnesses and do law.

[Alice Purjorick]

Let's start here... If the dogs are used for security... Why would they need to be scientifically tested... So how many of these dogs are used for security

To sniff things out.
Think of security in its wider sense.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Which is the most dangerous in your opinion.
The empirical woof of a dog or the empirical design of a machine?

I am trying to establish the objection the common scientific method of "empirical and iterative" as I posted about a fortnight ago.

Science according to this forum science appears not to extend much beyond smoking tobacco and its effect on the incidence of lung cancer in human, drug trials and woofin' bleedin' dogs.
No wonder courts dislike science and expert witnesses and do law.

No idea what you’re on about, sorry. 

[Mr Gray]

Which is the most dangerous in your opinion.
The empirical woof of a dog or the empirical design of a machine?

I am trying to establish the objection the common scientific method of "empirical and iterative" as I posted about a fortnight ago.

Science according to this forum science appears not to extend much beyond smoking tobacco and its effect on the incidence of lung cancer in human, drug trials and woofin' bleedin' dogs.
No wonder courts dislike science and expert witnesses and do law.

Law does evidence... It's a huge part of the law....forensic evidence may well rely on science to support it

Machines as in speed cameras are accepted... As long as their reliability is backed by testing.... Not by a Copper saying me and my mate test it every six months and it's always bang on

[Mr Gray]

To sniff things out.
Think of security in its wider sense.

And the dogs are judged on what they sniff out.....hard evidence.... Not what the handler claims they are sniffing

[Robittybob1]

And the dogs are judged on what they sniff out.....hard evidence.... Not what the handler claims they are sniffing

It wasn't the handler making the claims but the PJ officers.

[Mr Gray]

OK. I'm retiring from this discussion now because I've made the points I wanted to make which are;

Saying 'scientific' isn't meaningful because there are different kinds of science.
'Scientific method' also varies depending which science is being looked at.
Statistical studies can't reveal causes, they can only find associations.

I've used scientific in the context of scientific method... Therefore it's meaning is clear
Scientific method is a way of testing whose principles can be readily applied to many many things
As regards statistics ...it depends on the evidence they are based upon as to whether cause can be established...

[Mr Gray]

It wasn't the handler making the claims but the PJ officers.

It certainly  was.... Officers, according  to Harrison who had been briefed by Grime that the alerts, had no evidential value... Why did they ignore the expert

[Alice Purjorick]

No idea what you’re on about, sorry.

That comes as no surprise.

[Vertigo Swirl]

 

That comes as no surprise.

Nor does your reply above... 

[Alice Purjorick]

I've used scientific in the context of scientific method... Therefore it's meaning is clear
Scientific method is a way of testing whose principles can be readily applied to many many things
As regards statistics ...it depends on the evidence they are based upon as to whether cause can be established...

Empirical and iterative in many cases.

[Robittybob1]

Empirical and iterative in many cases.

empirical
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

[Alice Purjorick]

empirical
adjective
based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

That's the one.